Peace, peace, peace. I am Dr. Phillip Roundtree
and this is Hashtag You Good Man, a men's wellness
conversation. This is where we tap into the realities
of mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual
health for men, especially black men, in ways
that are honest, vulnerable, and rooted in community.
Today, I'm joined by a brother who has been doing
powerful grassroots work with young people and
men across the city of Philadelphia. We have
educator, mentor, poet, and founder of MBK Cares,
Esan Hines. Peace, brother. Thank you for joining
me. Peace, Phil. Oh, I'm sorry, Doc. Peace, brother.
It's really good to talk to you today. I'm encouraged
to be able to connect with you once again. And
I'm believing we're going to have a good conversation
to connect with other people through it. Word
I appreciate that Well before we begin I got
to ask you the most important question. I'll
probably ask you today How are you feeling right
now or more specifically you good man? I'm good
right now. I woke up not so good But I'm pressing
through some stuff and this conversation is is
crucial for me being able to connect so I'm processing
some stuff to be fully transparent with the unprocessed
system stuff, but It is what it is and I'm grateful
to be able to talk to you. I want to I want to
honor you and affirm the Just your willingness
to be vulnerable on this on this platform, right?
It's something that we Continuously ask of men,
but we never know if the if the space is safe
enough for us to really Express how we're feeling
right and so for you to come on here and just
be open and honest and hey I'm navigating some
things that's important. And so I know there's
going to be somebody who listens to this, who
is a firm to say, Hey, it's, it's sorry for me
to be honest about about what I'm experienced.
So with that being said, we're going to start
at the beginning. What's inspired the creation
of MBK cares? And how has that work evolved since
you started? So the organization, MBK cares is
short for my brother's keeper cares. And the
tragedy of losing my own brother Atif to suicide
is what started the organization or what started
the desire in me to start connecting with the
community. And when my brother first died, I
was being invited out to a lot of suicide conferences
in different spaces to talk about suicide or
the loss of someone to suicide. And I was leaving
these conferences in these spaces feeling worse
than I walked in because it was just a whole
lot of statistics. It was a whole lot of people
sharing their grief, but it wasn't really a lot
of messages to encourage hope. So I was determined
to create those spaces if I ever had an opportunity.
I also didn't give the date, but my brother died
August 31st, 2007. So years later, I was determined
when I got opportunities to create space where
people could feel better when they come into
those spaces. So my friends, my family, we got
together and started hosting concerts at Love
Park in Philadelphia. just to try and encourage
our neighbors. And through that, we realized
the homeless people were in need of encouragement
because they were our biggest audience. People
just passing by, the homeless and the hungry
became the people we decided we needed to serve
and encourage. And then it's evolved because
my own struggle. In 2018, I had a plan to take
my own life, which caused me to really focus
on my own mental health in ways that I wasn't
before. So I went from a lost survivor to somebody
who struggled with their own plans to take I've
had plans to take my life. Ultimately, I got
the help that I needed. And I realized like a
lot of people in my neighborhood didn't know
how to access or didn't have the access to the
support that I got. So we decided to create community
conversations at the local libraries, and just
the community grew from there. So the organization
has evolved from something that was just about
remembering my brother. to something that was
honoring our neighbors. And it's evolved so much
since then to be able to create programs where
young people can get the tools they need in order
to self -regulate, resolve conflict, be the peer
supports that they need for one another. So it's
evolved into a mentorship program. My own journey,
first off, I didn't really prioritize therapy.
Until like 2018 after my brother died I did tap
into therapy a little bit and I had a great therapist
who was teaching me some things and just trying
to help me deal with the initial Loss of my brother,
but also while I was navigating other life changes
that were happening at the same time My my daughter's
life started that week that my brother died my
ex got pregnant with my daughter the same week
that my brother died and Then I went through
a big breakup that year. So there were three
significant life changing situations that happened
within a matter of a couple of months. And each
of them individually could have been enough for
a whole lifetime, but I got all three at once.
And navigating that made me really have to tap
into therapy and prioritize staying in therapy.
So I was able to tap into this program called
the EAP program through my former employer, which
introduced me to a therapist that I could connect
with and sustain that relationship beyond the
initial EAP visit. And then I also got introduced
to therapy. I'm sorry, not therapy, journaling.
I got introduced to just being in the environment
more like peaceful environments, going for walks.
And I also have family, my uncle in particular,
who started encouraging me to prioritize my time
and schedule my time. So he told me to buy a
planner and to start writing in there things
that I wanted to do during the day. I'm going
to do some push -ups at this time. I'm going
to go for a walk at this time. I'm going to do
X, Y, and Z and schedule it. And through that,
he was teaching me how to love myself with prioritizing
my time and scheduling myself into my time. So
over the years, the process of Journaling has
really helped me because I've been able to be
really angry and be okay with expressing that.
I've been able to be hurt and express that and
get it out on a page full of tears, get it out
on a page and it made it easier for me to communicate
that with other people. I just now recognize
some of the tools that helped me so that I'm
not overwhelmed by the process. That resonates.
That resonates so much. I want to circle back.
to you mentioned the EAP program, which for those
who aren't familiar, that stands for employee
assistance programs. And a lot of times, if you
get your insurance through your employer, you
may be entitled to five, six, eight free therapy
sessions. And that sometimes is your introduction.
to therapy. I know it was for me, too, using
those free therapy sessions. And then it's incumbent
upon you if you want to continue on. So if you
are out there listening, inquire with your employer,
with your insurance company, to see if you have
those benefits that allow you to seek out therapy
at no cost initially and then co -pay and so
forth. Now, you talked about a lot of the methods
that that you utilize personally, right? And
that's one of the things that I can appreciate
about you is just like, hey, I'm learning something.
I learned something new. I'm going to share it
with the people. That's what community is. And
so I know you do that with MBK Cares as well,
right? You use tools that aren't always thought
of as traditional therapy where you're laying
on somebody's couch. You utilize things, as you
mentioned earlier, like art, like chess, like
golf, like poetry. Why specifically those methods?
And what impact have you seen them have on young
people and men that you serve? Well, the poetry
part, one, I'm a poet. I am a rapper slash poet
by the name or purpose. So that was something
that was just special for me to be able to express
myself and being in spaces where you hear poets
perform or share their thoughts, it tends to
be a very transparent environment. So I found
that creating those kinds of spaces where we
have programs and events that involve poetry,
you let people share their truth, but also allow
people who are in the audience hear it and be
inspired by what they're hearing, but also potentially
tap into writing and creating her own poetry.
And when it comes to the arts, my brother was
an artist. So that connection, some of it is
because of the legacy my brother had, but also
in learning from different art therapists, art
therapy is important in allowing people to be
able to tap into photography, painting, poetry.
It gives people an opportunity to be able to
like process some stuff. and just also experience
some stuff in new environments as well. And as
far as chess and golf, I was introduced to chess
and golf at a young age. I had a mentor who I
wasn't even in his class, but he was a teacher
at my school. And he just saw me in the hallways
at a very troubled high school with the West
Philly high. And I had somebody just invest in
me and try to teach me how to play chess. He
also taught me the art of debating and also mock
trial. He introduced me to things that helped
me navigate a very dangerous environment in my
high school so that I could focus and just get
some guidance. And chess, I was reintroduced
to it during the pandemic. So during the pandemic,
a friend of mine told me about this app called
chess .com and I started playing it all the time
and it helped me self -regulate, but it also
helped me to measure where am I if I'm not winning
or if I'm not even playing competitive chess.
I knew that I wasn't thinking or processing thoughts
right. And I still have that. I play probably
10 to 15 times a day on my phone. And if I'm
getting trashed in a chess game, then I know
that I'm not making good decisions on a small
level. So it was about exposure. And when it
came to golf, I was fortunate to have a mentor
who had access to going to play golf. He was
a doctor and he was a general in the Air Force.
And he took me under his wing and taught me how
to play golf. and took me on golf courses in
spaces that weren't full of Black people and
especially Black teens. And it was happening
at a time when Tiger Woods was a young golfer
in his prime. So I was introduced to something
and I realized like young people in my neighborhood
are not introduced to it. They're not taught
that chess can be fun. They're not taught that
golf can be not only fun, but it can open up
so many opportunities and put you in space to
have a lot of conversations. that can enhance
your life and just introduce you to some wonderful
people. So we were intentional about trying something
new and getting young people from environments
off their block. A lot of these kids in the city
of Philadelphia haven't been out of their own
neighborhood or they haven't been exposed to
some things in their own neighborhood. We've
been fortunate to be able to have our programs
in Strawberry Mansion and some of the kids in
Strawberry Mansion don't even know that there's
a space like the Discovery Center or there's
a space like Strawberry Green Driving Range right
in their neighborhood because they're just diamonds
in the rough. And forgive me if saying those
spaces is not allowed, but just introducing people
to spaces and different environments is why we
chose these activities and chose these art forms.
Yeah, you you touched on a few things there you
touched on the the importance of Mentorship and
what that's meant for you not only in your mental
health journey But your journey as a as a black
boy who? Transitions into a black man and how
the things that we learn in our youth Which we
we may or may not have interest in right because
a lot of times like come on overhead I ain't
trying to hear that right even if we are engaged
in the next thing we know as an adult we're utilizing
those same methods, whether in a healthy way
or an unhealthy way. We all have some sort of
skill, some sort of skill that can be beneficial
to community as a whole. And so when we take
those skills and we bring those to community
and say, hey, this is what I have to offer, you
never know who it may impact. And so when we
talk about these Even though things like art
therapy, right? It's extremely popular when we
talk about things like chess like golf poetry
that's definitely a part of the a part, you know
a modality where within the therapeutic space,
but these these quote -unquote a typical these
a type a typical type of modalities as again
chess as golf how as basketball as as apps, right?
So many different things that we can utilize
to help with things like behavioral self -regulation,
if we take the time to sit and learn and process
and understand how we can use these mechanisms
to the benefit of self and the benefit of others.
So I definitely appreciate that. And yeah, my
first time playing golf, was at Strawberry Green.
Went to the driving range. Again, the importance
of old heads, the importance of mentors. I went
there, had no idea what I was doing. This was
probably about 10 years ago. The old head came
out, and he was just like, oh, hey, go ahead.
You take them balls. I mean, I had just bought
some golf clubs off the marketplace. And I'm
sitting there swinging. He just gave me the free
balls. Then another old head came. He was like,
hey, let me show you something. Right and I'm
sitting here. You know what I mean? Like he's
teaching me and that was uncomfortable and it
wasn't uncomfortable because of what I was learning
I was uncomfortable because My interactions with
elder black men was far and few between Right.
And so I didn't really know I was that discomfort
that I was feeling in my belly was because I
didn't really have a mentor growing up that I
can count on consistently or that I took advantage
of because they were there. And so I felt compelled
to share that because again, what I hear you
explaining and discussing are the same types
of gems and wisdom and effort and energy and
communal love that was poured into you from elders.
So with that being said, we know part of the
battle. is the stigma of mental health. So what
challenges do you face breaking that stigma in
our communities? And what's been effective in
pushing back against that? Some of the challenges
are like one, even like inspiring, like letting
people know that they have, I'm trying to think
this through a little bit. The stigma is that
one, I haven't experienced a lot of stigma. And
I think that It's because a lot of the things
I've had opportunity to talk about put me in
spaces where I've been able to be Transparent
and it allows other people to do the same thing
even with you like you had you hold spaces or
held spaces Where people the walls come down
because people hear what you have to say So I
haven't experienced some of those same challenges.
I've been fortunate I do know that they exist
for a lot of people but because I've been able
to share my story and share about the loss of
my brother a lot of people feel more comfortable
just talking about things. One of the challenges
that I have experienced over the last few years
is getting young people to talk about their mental
health. Getting adults to talk about it has been
more normal, but getting young people to talk
about it is a little different because they're
dealing with a lot of gun violence and a lot
of just regular, not regular, but a lot of other
types of loss of life, not just suicide, which
is causing a lot of hopelessness amongst them
where they're not even thinking about. the future
because they think it's not coming anyway, or
they're afraid all the time. I can't imagine
what it's like right now to be a teenager in
the city of Philadelphia. I am connecting with
some and learning their stories and learning
their journeys and their hopes and all of that.
But to combat things, I think that was the question
you asked, I'm listening more and giving people
a chance to express themselves even when I don't
agree with it. I heard someone recently, I'm
not going to say his name or anything, but I
heard a young person say, if somebody around
him was expressing thoughts of suicide, he would,
like, smack them. And I'm thinking, like, dang,
that can't be the answer because somebody's hurting
and you're going to hurt them on top of that.
But I also just have to listen because that's
that person's thought process of how to how to
how to address somebody feeling broken in front
of them and then allow them to say that and listen
to it. And from there, try to build a relationship
so that I can impart wisdom or somebody else
can address it, whoever is responsible for addressing
that with that young person. But listen in more
because when you don't know people and you try
to speak to them, sometimes people just dismiss
what you have to say. But when it's young people
or when it's most people, but it's particularly
young people, they have to trust you and they
have to know that you care because a lot of them
are dealing with Either one parent gone or both
parents gone and if they're dealing with that
their trust or their ability to trust is already
broken It's fractured in a way where they can't
just trust teachers. They can't trust Police
they can't trust just people who are caregivers.
So listening has helped to break down those walls
That's a word that's a word listening in trust
And trust is built and can be built through listening,
especially when you're dealing with young people,
right? Because as we grow up in this society,
especially as a black boy, we start to lose trust
early on, right? We lose trust within our household,
those around us. A lot of our friendships, a
lot of our relationships, are frivolous. I'll
use I statements. A lot of my relationships when
I was younger was about, hey, let's go talk to
some girls, right? Not really necessarily us
discussing what was happening in our lives, whether
in school, whether at home and so forth. As I
got older, hey, let's go get a drink. And not
to say that there's anything wrong with that,
right? But a lot of this is like surfacy. It
never gets into the true level of friendships
like I have now with some of these same people
where it's just like, yo bro, this is what I'm
going through with my wife. Yo fam, this is what
I'm going through with my mental health. You
think I should go talk to a therapist and so
forth. Things that I know these people wouldn't
have done over the last 10 years or so. And the
reason why I think they feel comfortable in coming
to me specifically It's because I'm not going
to laugh them out the building. I'm going to
take time and listen. I'm going to take it serious.
So you highlighting just that importance of trust.
And once trust is lost, it's so hard to get back.
It's so hard to get back. So I appreciate you
bringing that up. So I want to transition to
what it looks like. for MBK Cares going forward.
What vision do you have for your nonprofit organization
over the next few years? Where do you want to
take this movement? I would like to see more
chapters of the organization of the cities and
creating a model that people can put into their
urban environment. It may not necessarily have
to be chess or golf, but some of the foundational
pieces where it comes to introducing art and
just an activity that can be different. People
might not have golf, but they might have like
maybe some skate parks or maybe just some other
like pickleball or whatever activity, but incorporating
a physical activity that also stimulates the
mind. I would hope that it could be chess and
golf wherever because the mental component that
they both involve and the etiquette that they
allow you to practice. But just expanding, but
also opening up some of our other programs. We
have about 16 program ideas that we haven't executed
yet. I want to do more work when it comes to
foster care and like the adoption agencies because
a lot of those people in those spaces, whether
the caretakers or the people who are being adopted
or just being brought up through those systems,
they need mental health support. I would like
to do more for the veterans. There's more work
that we want to do with return citizens or people
who are in prison, incarcerated people, just
to make sure that they get the care that they
need so that people can just be treated like
decent citizens. There's a whole lot more on
the horizon, but my goal is also ultimately to
allow the story to get off of me. A lot of the
story has been on my struggle and on my own loss
of my brother. I would like this story and also
the service we provide to be more about. who
we serve in the community. So right now there's
a strategy and a plan to be able to bring more
people into the organization who will have expertise
in areas that I do not have so that the organization
can just flow better and have a broader reach.
So I'm just hoping that things can become more
about the community that we serve and less about
people just being compelled. to gravitate towards
my story and my relationships with the community,
but about people meeting needs and other people
seeing a way that they fit into the organization.
I want strangers to say, hey, I want to volunteer.
I want to fit in. Or I see a place that I can
fit in. Hey, I have expertise with accounting.
I can help you with that. I'm a lawyer. I can
help you with this and that. I'm looking for
people to see the fit that they have in the organization
and feel comfortable walking into it. And knowing
you, I'm certain it's going to get done. Knowing
you, I know it's going to get done. Before we
get out of here, I always like to bring it back
to the people. So if there's a brother out here
struggling, maybe feeling like he can't say I'm
not OK, what's one thing you want to leave him
with? It's OK to cry. Cry it out. Have a good
cry. Hug yourself. Love yourself. I encourage
you to tell yourself Something good that you
did this year is it's actually good that I'm
saying it because this morning I had to practice
this I was really thinking about Things that
I've lost and I was struggling to process so
many good things that have happened. So I encourage
somebody out there to remind yourself of something
good that you've accomplished or something good
that you've encountered, a person that you encountered,
especially with men. We deal with a lot of loss
sometimes and we deal with a lot of just disappointments
and we deal with it in bad ways. So I encourage
whoever's out there to tell yourself something
good and also just give yourself grace. You may
have messed up. You may be the perpetrator of
the own experience you're living out. You may
be living out consequences that you've you've
contributed to, but that doesn't make you exempt
from love, that doesn't make you exempt from
the grace of God, that doesn't make you exempt
from people's respect and also just another chance.
So I encourage you to just give yourself some
grace, cry it out if you must, and please open
your mouth and tell somebody if you're struggling
and give somebody an opportunity to love on you
and support you and walk along with it. And Phil,
I'm gonna put this back on you. You've done that
for me. When I was in crisis, I walked into a
space that you hosted and you curated. And you
and the other brothers in that space helped me
down. And I think a lot of the things that it'll
be kid cares right now would not exist had I
not been supported by other brothers who took
time to create those kinds of spaces and conversations.
Thank you, brother. I received that. I received
it. See, now you got me, you know, it's a good
thing, right? It's a good thing. I appreciate
it. You know what I mean? I was just going to
try to say something else, but it's just like,
no, I receive it and I appreciate it. I'm glad
you've seen value in the work that I do and the
work that other brothers put in for those who
attend any space that I may curate. I'm just
a vessel for it all. So yeah, so with that being
said, listen, Usana, I thank you for coming and
sharing space and sharing your truth with us.
I want to salute you for the work that you and
MBK Cares is doing for men and boys, and just
for our communities at large. If you want to
be in contact with Usana and MBK Cares, you can
hit them up at MBKCares .com. And because the
work that he's doing It's so important. It reminds
us that healing is possible, community is necessary,
and our lives are worth fighting for. And remember,
when it comes to men's mental health and wellness,
the road isn't easy, but it's worth it. Peace.