WEBVTT

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So 67 of the hashtag You Good Man Men's Wellness

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podcast, the first on the Black Media Nexus Network.

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Make sure you like, subscribe and comment wherever

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you're listening or watching this pod. So for

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those who are new to the pod, this is a space

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where identifying men have open and honest dialogue

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about our wellness. It's an opportunity for us

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to exhale. So I welcome you. It's been about

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five months since I've last recorded. Be real,

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I would tell you where I've been and what I've

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been doing if I could remember. For all of us,

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it's been a bit of a blur as we navigate the

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madness in society. But the beautiful thing is

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that we've survived. And my hope for all of us

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is that we find moments to live, love, and be

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using healthy practices in the midst. And so

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for me, one of the practices that I've been using

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more of, and I'm gonna be real, I'm resisting

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the urge to shame myself and say that I need

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to do it more, but it's writing. It has been

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a cathartic practice for me. One space that I've

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been to fairly recently is ceremonies, a space

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for those who identify as black men to convene,

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engage, write, and be free. In bringing back

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the pot, I knew exactly who I wanted to have

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as my first guest, and they are the facilitators

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of ceremonies housed under their fellowship of

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the Griot's organization, which centers the power

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of Black writers and our allies. These brothers

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are master storytellers, wordsmiths. Again, y

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'all know me for being real. One has questionable

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hip hop and television takes at times, but ultimately

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they're all around. Good genuine dudes. We have

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ality farmer and Donnie Moreland jr. Welcome

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fellas. How y 'all feeling? Questionable I'm

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just being real man questionable. You said that

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and I'm not mad at the wire take I'm not mad

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at the wire take for folk who think the wire

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is better than top boy We can agree to disagree

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there, but but some of your other takes man,

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they be I don't know what's happening I'm going

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to be honest. I don't know what's happening.

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I've never seen Top Boy, but there's no cultural

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influence. No memes running around of Top Boy,

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no gifts running around. The wire was a moment,

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man. You missed that moment because you were

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still young. You missed that moment because now

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you're trying to catch up. That ain't even a

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thing, but thank you for having us. The man we're

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here to talk about, that's episode 102. Exactly.

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That's episode 100. But Donnie, have you seen

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Top Boy? I have not seen Top Boy. I've seen -

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What's up with y 'all, man? What's up with y

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'all? I have a worst take. And I'll be honest.

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I haven't finished season one of The Wire. It

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never captured my interest. And I hold that.

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I don't say that a lot, but - Clearly, because

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we see what happens. We see what happens. It's

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a brave space. Name just put out to everybody.

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I'm going to share this widely. I wanted to bring

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you on because you both are amazing, amazing

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storytellers. When I sit and listen to what you

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offer, for me, it penetrates deep into my spirit.

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And I can't say I can't say I experienced that

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in my, when I'm engaging with television, when

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I'm engaging with your mainstream writers, it's

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something about the level of authenticity that

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you both offer in your writing. So first, I wanna

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start there. Like your journey as a writer, what

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has that been like in... How did you get to the

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place where you are now is just being phenomenal

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writers. So let's start with with you, Alative.

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I see you putting the eyebrows up. Listen, brother,

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you don't got to have a publication, you know

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what I mean? In that way to be a phenomenal writer

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for me, man, because because this is this is

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about authenticity. This is about realness and

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connecting with with us. And so the way that

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you write both you and Donnie, it speaks to just

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this this love for. for us as black folk. First,

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thank you again, you know, tremendous gratitude

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for the comments. For me, storytelling came as

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a kid to me as a kid, you know, my mother had

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me when she was 14. So I was raised as essentially

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as her youngest sibling while being, you know,

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the first grandchild to my grandmother. So my

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youngest aunt is five years older than me. So

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she's like my big sister. But still, I was the

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only little kid, right? So I spent a lot of time

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with myself. And that time, I spent a lot of

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time talking to myself. As I got older, I realized

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I was telling stories, right? So I would take,

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you know, my hate men figures. and I would have

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battles. I would take my baseball cards, my basketball

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cards, and I would have battles. I was doing

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fantasy sports way back in the mid -80s. I would

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take the cards and go into the papers and get

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the stats, and I would have my own little drafts,

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and I would put them together, and then I would

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play the game. So I was telling myself stories,

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and as I got older, I started reading really,

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really young. My mother likes to say I was two.

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the true that is, but the family runs with that

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story. But I remember reading a newspaper to

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my grandfather because he didn't really know

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how to read well. And I know I was doing that

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before I ever went to school. Wow. And so that

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kind of translated into a love of words for me.

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So I would take my aunt's Judy Bloom books and

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Beverly Cleary and I would read those books and

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then I would just make up my own stories to go

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along with them. And then I started writing.

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I remember in fifth grade we had an assignment

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to write a story, and I wrote the story about

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a kid who was riding down a highway. You know,

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you get the wind, and you let the wind blow your

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hand. I wrote a story about a kid getting his

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hand knocked off by a truck, and the hand coming

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back to haunt his family. And my class was like,

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yo, this is dope. And I kept writing all these

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other pieces to it. And I knew then, this is

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what I want to do. Now life plays out differently

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than when I go to college. I majored in English.

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I'm an English teacher. I went and spent a week

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in my old middle school. I was like, I ain't

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doing this. I ended up working in higher ed at

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the same time. I started a blog. I'm writing

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that blog for years. I end up doing some other

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things online. But I had this full -time job.

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I don't have the time to write. And then finally,

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I fell ill in 2018. And, you know, for a little

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while I was looking like that was going to be

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it for me. And all I kept thinking was on that

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book, that real book. So I ended up being out

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of work that year. And so I just started writing,

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started writing. The guy would schedule and put

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on my account what I'm going to work on. And

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I started developing the writing practice. And

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so that's what I've been working on really now

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for the last, you know, seven years, seven, eight

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years. met Donnie in one of those spaces. And

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for some reason, we just connected like there

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were other brothers coming every week. But it

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was something about his work that attracted me

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to him. I was like, I need to get to know him

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better on the page and as a man. So we just connected.

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Thank you. Thank you for being vulnerable enough

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to share about. you know, what you've navigated

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family wise, what you've navigated health wise

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and how writing has been and seemingly an outlet

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for you. Right. And so when we talk about men's

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mental health, men's wellness and finding these

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practices outside of the those stereotypical

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masculine outlets, the gym, those unhealthy vices,

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we seemingly found something to to help you not

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only process what's happening, but to articulate

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it to others, what it is that you've been feeling

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and what you've been experiencing throughout

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the course of your life. So again, I appreciate

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you sharing that. What about you, Donnie? What

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has inspired you? What does that journey as a

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writer look like for you? Oh, man. I've been

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sitting here thinking about... that journey.

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I don't think I've ever thought about it in its

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entirety. I mean, I've always been artistically

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inclined. My mother introduced me to, you know,

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all of, I would say, my artistic interests. You

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know, she taught me how to draw. She taught me

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how to write. She taught me, you know, she introduced

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me, you know, a love for music and appreciation

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for music, my earliest memories. are Benita Baker's

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Potiphar and the Rapture and, you know, David

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with Banks Take Five. It was my earliest memories.

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That's because she was keen on making sure I

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was exposed to as much art as possible growing

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up. I was most interested in, you know, drawing

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and visual arts up until I would say high school.

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You know. going into high school, I would, you

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know, I had faced some mental health challenges.

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I'd been hospitalized when I was 13. And I needed

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an outlet that wasn't, you know, what I thought

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I had access to. And on the speech and debate

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team in high school, my classmate, the one that

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sat right next to me in that class was the author

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Brian Washington, or would be the author Brian

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Washington. And I remember he he was getting

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published then and it inspired me to like sit

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down and you know and write and I found a calling

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I think for poetry then just you know watching

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him and seeing you know how fulfilling it was

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for him to not just be published but to have

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that outlet. And so I found a website, it's called

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Ghetto Soul Poetry. It's no longer around. Neither

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are all those poems I wrote back then. But that's

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how I got into it. And then by the end of high

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school... going to college I had like a terrible

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poetry night freshman year in college like just

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an atrocious like everyone's just looking at

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me like we don't understand a word you just said

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brother like it's I say you know what I am I

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am done with this it was one of those poetry

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nights was just like I can't come back here um

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so I put the pen down and I focus on other things

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and like, you know, I still wrote like I was

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writing, I was writing textbook chapters, you

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know, throughout college and, you know, you know,

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I was here and there extricately. But I didn't

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write creatively, that's why I'm putting that

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down. So it wasn't really until after college

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that I picked up, you know, creative writing

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again. That's only because Josie Pickens, the

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cultural educator out here in Houston, she encouraged

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me to submit one of my essays that I had written

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for a blog post for an organization that I had

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called LAB, Love with Cheating Brotherhood, out

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here in Houston. This was like 2016, 2017. I

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wrote a blog post, she saw it, she was like,

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hey, you need to submit this to Black Youth Project.

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And it didn't go in one way or the other. I just

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was like, I'm not a writer. I can write academically.

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I was working on my master's in film studies

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at the time. But I'm not a writer, not like that.

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And by that time, my love had become film. Like

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I said, I was working on a master's degree in

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film studies. Filmmaking was my track. And I

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couldn't be moved from that. So I think to the

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extent that I would write creatively was just

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scripts, but I never thought about it as creative

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writing. It's like the means to an end in my

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storytelling. But then I moved to Minnesota,

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you know, in like 2017, 2018. And, you know,

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we do things when young, dumb, and in love. So

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I moved to Minnesota. I put down all of my dreams

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and, you know, needed a job while I was up there.

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And I remember, you know, Josie saying, submit

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this to Black Youth Project. So I sat down with

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the piece and I, you know, trimmed it up and

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got in shape and I sent it off. And then they

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published that. And then I sent some stuff off

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to Gathering of the Tribes. And, you know, I

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think one of my proudest moments as a writer

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is, I mean, it's a bit morbid, but one of my

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pieces, like the last piece that Steve Cannon

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published before he passed. And so, you know,

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at that point I was like, maybe I can do this.

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So I kept, you know, writing. When he got pregnant,

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at that point I'm like, okay, I need to really

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step it up. And I began working in social service,

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but realized on the back end I could write to

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make money. But as I was doing it, I began to,

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you know, feel a bit impassioned by it. It began

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to become more of a creative outlet that, you

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know, filmmaking wasn't, because I hadn't picked

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up a camera in a while, but I was able to express

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myself through essaying in ways that I just couldn't

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through a script. And so I stuck with it, you

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know, throughout the course of the pregnancy

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and then going into COVID. I really amped up,

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you know, the work because I think like a lot

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of us, you know, I was I was on 10 in terms of

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like my political kind of motivations and you

00:14:47.690 --> 00:14:49.950
know that that that emotional intensity putting

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into that that those um the it was that political

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commentary yeah and so just just doing a lot

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of writing and then you know due to you know

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kind of circumstances outside of my control um

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I ended up having to move back to Houston you

00:15:05.669 --> 00:15:10.269
know as a single uh as a single parent and um

00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:13.240
At that point, everything kind of shifted, like

00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:19.700
Rae Spader, they changed management and, I'm

00:15:19.700 --> 00:15:21.580
sorry, Blackie Project changed management, Rae

00:15:21.580 --> 00:15:24.980
Spader had closed up shop, Gatlinger Tribes,

00:15:25.100 --> 00:15:26.919
you know, they weren't accepting anything, they

00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:28.460
were going through their own managerial changes.

00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:31.700
Like all the channels that I had to submit to,

00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:35.639
you know, it kind of closed up. So I was back

00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:40.110
in Texas, you know. It's kind of like submitting

00:15:40.110 --> 00:15:41.909
things out. It's not getting any feedback and

00:15:41.909 --> 00:15:44.470
I was okay I don't know if this is gonna It's

00:15:44.470 --> 00:15:46.529
gonna work and I at that time I had published

00:15:46.529 --> 00:15:49.470
some short stories I'm just kind of experimenting

00:15:49.470 --> 00:15:51.950
and seeing if I could and I was okay I can't

00:15:51.950 --> 00:15:53.990
you know, and I got some stuff out there like

00:15:53.990 --> 00:15:57.009
you project to the fiction writing But even that

00:15:57.009 --> 00:16:00.029
I was like, okay that ain't I'm not gonna You

00:16:00.029 --> 00:16:02.870
know, I can't compete with the big dogs and essaying,

00:16:02.870 --> 00:16:05.889
you know, I can't get anything published So I

00:16:05.889 --> 00:16:10.629
was about ready to hang it up But that's when,

00:16:10.629 --> 00:16:13.549
you know, I saw Hoover, who was, you know, at

00:16:13.549 --> 00:16:16.830
the time, I think, creative director, I want

00:16:16.830 --> 00:16:18.950
to say, at New York Writers Coalition, and he

00:16:18.950 --> 00:16:22.190
posted my brother to brother, the workshop that

00:16:22.190 --> 00:16:26.669
I was even not met at. And it was like the first

00:16:26.669 --> 00:16:30.350
home I had, you know, as a writer, like I had

00:16:30.350 --> 00:16:32.610
attended workshops, New York Writers Coalition

00:16:32.610 --> 00:16:34.909
workshops prior, and a few others, but then I

00:16:34.909 --> 00:16:38.090
had a home, and now I had a home. with, you know,

00:16:38.629 --> 00:16:41.149
other black, male -identified folks who you just

00:16:41.149 --> 00:16:44.509
wanted to fellowship around words. And you think

00:16:44.509 --> 00:16:47.950
similarly, Fatif, like, meeting him, and even

00:16:47.950 --> 00:16:49.669
though we didn't, like, talk and communicate,

00:16:50.190 --> 00:16:52.370
his storytelling and things he wrote about, for

00:16:52.370 --> 00:16:55.970
me, was like, I'm gonna stay here, of course,

00:16:56.029 --> 00:16:57.809
for the brothers, but for him, because, like,

00:16:57.870 --> 00:17:00.889
we speak a similar language, and I need to get

00:17:00.889 --> 00:17:05.460
to know this cat. And then, you know, but I still

00:17:05.460 --> 00:17:07.000
wasn't looking at writing. It's kind of like

00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:11.839
a profession. It was like, I'm in social service.

00:17:11.859 --> 00:17:14.559
This is just something I do at this point as

00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.920
a hobby. I wasn't making any money from it anymore.

00:17:18.779 --> 00:17:21.140
But, you know, during a break, it's when, you

00:17:21.140 --> 00:17:23.339
know, the brother, you know, kind of seasonal

00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:25.680
break, and you know, TV hit me up and said, hey,

00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:28.259
let's keep writing. And, you know, that's kind

00:17:28.259 --> 00:17:31.059
of the origins of fellowship with Rios, but also

00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:36.720
you know, us doing that thing, it gave me a drive

00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:40.680
again to find my voice. Everything we've done

00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:43.160
is like opened up access for me to make the writing

00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:46.700
is like, oh wait, no, this is what we do. So

00:17:46.700 --> 00:17:50.460
yeah, long story short, that's, that's, you know,

00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.279
that's how I came to the pin, you know, four

00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:56.480
times. It's interesting, you know, when I hear

00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:02.670
the parallels between you and Al Latif, just

00:18:02.670 --> 00:18:06.430
how this variety, this process of writing started

00:18:06.430 --> 00:18:11.930
fairly young. And I juxtapose that with my experience

00:18:11.930 --> 00:18:17.410
with writing, where and I want to say a lot of

00:18:17.410 --> 00:18:19.970
a lot of children, ultimately, right, especially

00:18:19.970 --> 00:18:25.809
in these failing public schools, where this free

00:18:25.809 --> 00:18:29.730
writing isn't a thing, right? Everything is about

00:18:30.089 --> 00:18:34.029
the test, the test, the test, right? These state

00:18:34.029 --> 00:18:36.430
exams that they're all taking. And so there's

00:18:36.430 --> 00:18:41.869
opportunity to explore, much like artists, right?

00:18:41.869 --> 00:18:45.829
Where it's just like, if you're, you know, coloring,

00:18:46.130 --> 00:18:49.509
right? I have a friend of mine who, usually I

00:18:49.509 --> 00:18:51.150
have it in the background, but I have books right

00:18:51.150 --> 00:18:55.089
here. A friend of mine, he's a phenomenal writer,

00:18:55.630 --> 00:18:59.509
Justin Wellington. called the the blind artist.

00:18:59.529 --> 00:19:04.529
He has one eye. And so he used to love drawing

00:19:04.529 --> 00:19:08.289
when he was younger. Right. And ultimately he

00:19:08.289 --> 00:19:10.809
ended up stopping because he has some family

00:19:10.809 --> 00:19:13.069
tragedies and he and he picked it back up in

00:19:13.069 --> 00:19:17.650
his mid 20s. All of us. Right. I have a I have

00:19:17.650 --> 00:19:20.849
a three year old son. He loves coloring. Right.

00:19:20.869 --> 00:19:26.069
He loves drawing. But if he's not the next amazing

00:19:26.069 --> 00:19:30.380
painter, Then we typically stop right and so

00:19:30.380 --> 00:19:33.160
we find kids who are amazing Storytellers when

00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:35.019
you sit and just listen to them tell stories

00:19:35.019 --> 00:19:37.180
about different things or they may write write

00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:40.539
about fantasy and things like that if if they're

00:19:40.539 --> 00:19:45.000
not Elites quote -unquote elite in that way,

00:19:45.140 --> 00:19:46.559
then it's just Larry. You got to hang this up

00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:49.420
You got to go find something else to do that

00:19:49.420 --> 00:19:54.960
the creativity of the youth is Stunted within

00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:58.099
the public school system Right. Especially when

00:19:58.099 --> 00:20:01.279
we're talking about black and brown boys. And

00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:04.599
so I just find it interesting that this is something

00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:07.539
that you picked up early. I don't think I literally

00:20:07.539 --> 00:20:13.180
picked up writing just to write until I had my

00:20:13.180 --> 00:20:15.640
little incarceration stint. You know, when I

00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:18.480
was at at a university that I won't name. Right.

00:20:18.500 --> 00:20:20.880
I needed something to do to pass the time for

00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:23.160
those those little 48 hours because it got real.

00:20:24.659 --> 00:20:28.299
And so I'm just amazed at how you pick this up

00:20:28.299 --> 00:20:32.140
early, right? You recognize it to be something

00:20:32.140 --> 00:20:35.680
that was important to you. And even if you might've

00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:38.579
gotten away from it throughout the course of,

00:20:38.579 --> 00:20:41.000
you know, life -lifing, you still found your

00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:45.779
way back. And so I guess my question is, how

00:20:45.779 --> 00:20:51.460
vital is and was the practice of writing for

00:20:51.460 --> 00:20:55.480
your development? as a Black boy who would then

00:20:55.480 --> 00:21:01.319
transition into being Black men? I think the

00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:03.859
fortune of being a few years younger than the

00:21:03.859 --> 00:21:11.460
two of you. So grew up in a time in school where

00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:14.420
things were a little bit different, right? Where

00:21:14.420 --> 00:21:19.079
it wasn't all about the test. I grew up in gifted

00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:24.759
and talented programs where our gifts were kind

00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:27.940
of the reason we were there. And so we had the

00:21:27.940 --> 00:21:29.980
time to kind of hone those things. Like if you

00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:33.779
were a science and math kid, you went into spaces

00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:36.400
to work on those things. You know, I was an English

00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:38.740
and history good kid, so I can go into spaces

00:21:38.740 --> 00:21:41.099
and do those things and do research papers, all

00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:47.019
kinds of things. So I was given the space to

00:21:47.019 --> 00:21:52.549
create one page because It was the California

00:21:52.549 --> 00:21:55.849
achievement test for us then. That wasn't a concern

00:21:55.849 --> 00:22:00.009
for me, right? I did it first, second grade.

00:22:00.049 --> 00:22:03.869
I'm testing sixth grade level. So our class doesn't

00:22:03.869 --> 00:22:07.369
have to worry about those tests. So we were given

00:22:07.369 --> 00:22:10.730
the space to do things much differently, right?

00:22:13.470 --> 00:22:15.410
By the time I get to the middle school, they're

00:22:15.410 --> 00:22:17.529
starting to cut those programs out of the city.

00:22:17.769 --> 00:22:20.869
I grew up in New York, Jersey, and they're just

00:22:20.869 --> 00:22:23.190
putting kids all in the same class together so

00:22:23.190 --> 00:22:26.470
while you have those who are advanced now they're

00:22:26.470 --> 00:22:29.029
in classes with students who are two or three

00:22:29.029 --> 00:22:34.730
grade levels below and so you have these young

00:22:34.730 --> 00:22:38.289
really a lot especially a lot of boys black boys

00:22:38.289 --> 00:22:44.210
who now are being stifled in the classroom because

00:22:44.210 --> 00:22:47.329
they aren't allowed to express themselves academically

00:22:47.329 --> 00:22:51.400
or creatively because the teachers are not even

00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:53.539
focused on them. You're going to be okay, let

00:22:53.539 --> 00:22:57.279
me go over here. And you're just kind of just

00:22:57.279 --> 00:22:59.619
sitting there, like not being challenged at all,

00:22:59.619 --> 00:23:02.240
which means that you're not being stimulated,

00:23:02.339 --> 00:23:05.559
right? Which means that now you're just kind

00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:07.880
of going through the motions and aren't given

00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:10.720
the opportunity to say, all right, I need assignments,

00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:13.119
I need topics and books and things that are going

00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:16.380
to challenge me, which allows me to think on

00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:18.930
a different level. which allows me to now be

00:23:18.930 --> 00:23:21.549
creative and oh I like to write so now I can

00:23:21.549 --> 00:23:24.349
write poetry right my poetry starts to grow a

00:23:24.349 --> 00:23:26.549
little bit because oh I'm introduced to Langston

00:23:26.549 --> 00:23:31.490
Hughes now right I'm not just reading this textbook

00:23:31.490 --> 00:23:35.589
I'm reading Hughes I'm reading Claude McKay these

00:23:35.589 --> 00:23:37.109
were the things that we were doing in fourth

00:23:37.109 --> 00:23:41.109
and fifth grade and you know we're breaking down

00:23:41.109 --> 00:23:45.069
you know how life for me ain't been no crystal

00:23:45.069 --> 00:23:48.640
stair. And so it was giving us a higher level

00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:50.079
of thinking. It was giving us a higher level

00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:53.339
of thinking, which allowed me to go home and

00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:55.640
work on things. Like, I'm mimicking the poems.

00:23:55.859 --> 00:23:58.140
Around the same time, you know, Eric B and Rakim

00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:01.759
are out. And, you know, I'm listening to Rakim,

00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:03.359
the way he's doing with words, and Big Daddy

00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:06.160
Kane, and Karis Wan, and Chuck D. Oh, I can do

00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:10.180
this too. So I'm writing raps. I'm writing stories,

00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:13.839
you know. And then I'm going to school with them.

00:24:14.089 --> 00:24:16.670
you know, doing research papers and things like

00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:21.589
that. And so my creativity was stimulated in

00:24:21.589 --> 00:24:25.329
the classroom. And it allowed me to say, oh,

00:24:25.730 --> 00:24:28.529
I can do this thing too and all these other things.

00:24:29.289 --> 00:24:31.809
And I'm learning history because we had after

00:24:31.809 --> 00:24:33.670
school programs that, you know, we've learned

00:24:33.670 --> 00:24:36.230
Swahili, all kinds of things. And so I'm able

00:24:36.230 --> 00:24:38.789
to incorporate all of that into my storytelling

00:24:38.789 --> 00:24:42.690
as a kid. And those are the same found those.

00:24:43.449 --> 00:24:45.650
That's the foundation of the stories that I write

00:24:45.650 --> 00:24:48.730
down. Like a lot of those characters are coming

00:24:48.730 --> 00:24:50.289
back. Like we had a brother that had a school

00:24:50.289 --> 00:24:54.029
program named Baba Saleed. He came in, he taught

00:24:54.029 --> 00:24:56.430
us martial arts, he taught us discipline, he

00:24:56.430 --> 00:24:59.309
took us into classes, taught us history. And

00:24:59.309 --> 00:25:01.769
so he's a person that I see when I'm writing

00:25:01.769 --> 00:25:05.089
stories. So he's like that elderly figure who

00:25:05.089 --> 00:25:10.160
comes back. And so that's how I learned. how

00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:11.759
to tell stories, how to be a storyteller, and

00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.059
that's the foundation that I've carried with

00:25:13.059 --> 00:25:16.900
me. I've never stopped writing. I mean, didn't

00:25:16.900 --> 00:25:19.519
take it seriously for a couple years, you know,

00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.539
my mid -20s. I was getting some money, I was

00:25:23.539 --> 00:25:26.000
working, so, you know, under the strip clubs,

00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:30.980
chilling. But what I started doing was actually

00:25:30.980 --> 00:25:34.680
writing an email to my friends the next morning,

00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:37.799
like, detailing what we were doing the night

00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:39.700
before, like, things that happened, my crazy

00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:44.720
things. And then that became, oh, I just started

00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:48.420
riffing on what was happening in the world. And

00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:50.440
people started forwarding my emails to their

00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:55.099
friends. And people are emailing me like, yeah,

00:25:55.099 --> 00:25:56.500
I want to be on the mailing list. I'm like, what

00:25:56.500 --> 00:25:59.460
mailing list? I send this to eight people. Next

00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:01.799
thing I know, I'm sending it to 120 every day.

00:26:02.619 --> 00:26:03.960
Next thing I know, hotmail is like you're over

00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:06.180
your limit. I was like, oh, let me go create

00:26:06.180 --> 00:26:10.690
a blog. And so it was always happening. It just

00:26:10.690 --> 00:26:14.569
looked different. You know what I'm saying? Yeah,

00:26:15.710 --> 00:26:17.990
I'm glad you brought that up. And I'm glad you

00:26:17.990 --> 00:26:20.809
infused hip hop into this. Because then that

00:26:20.809 --> 00:26:24.269
had me circling back. Because as I posed the

00:26:24.269 --> 00:26:26.549
question, I talked about this formal setting

00:26:26.549 --> 00:26:30.210
of being in the schools. And so when I'm taking

00:26:30.210 --> 00:26:34.569
a step back, so many black and brown boys have

00:26:34.569 --> 00:26:39.900
written raps. We don't even necessarily in me,

00:26:39.980 --> 00:26:42.859
right? It could slip our minds that, yo, this

00:26:42.859 --> 00:26:46.880
is writing. This is storytelling. I can't stand

00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:50.500
drill rat. Right. As you know, I can't stand

00:26:50.500 --> 00:26:53.660
it is extremely violent, but they're telling

00:26:53.660 --> 00:26:57.720
a story from start to finish in a way that makes

00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.940
sense for them. Right. And the prose that's authentic

00:27:00.940 --> 00:27:06.220
to them. And so, yeah, I, you know, it has me

00:27:06.220 --> 00:27:11.940
again, reflecting. on how even my idea of acceptable

00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:16.119
writing is shaped, right? Because you have these

00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:17.559
young brothers out here, they're writing. Now

00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:21.059
ultimately, when we talk about that, how healthy

00:27:21.059 --> 00:27:23.190
is it? Right now, we can have a conversation

00:27:23.190 --> 00:27:26.670
about that. But ultimately, this is a form of

00:27:26.670 --> 00:27:30.369
writing. This is a form of expression, even if,

00:27:30.369 --> 00:27:32.450
you know, somebody old like me is undesirable.

00:27:32.529 --> 00:27:35.769
So I find it undesirable. So I appreciate you

00:27:35.769 --> 00:27:39.029
for bringing that up in the influence that hip

00:27:39.029 --> 00:27:44.750
hop has had in in your understanding and your

00:27:44.750 --> 00:27:48.069
practice of writing. So how about you, Donny?

00:27:48.190 --> 00:27:53.259
What has how has writing aided in your development

00:27:53.259 --> 00:27:57.319
transitioning from a black boy into a black man?

00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:00.740
Well, no, that's an interesting question, I think,

00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:03.960
because, um, you know, as Alative indicated,

00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:07.299
I grew up in a different era. We're in like school,

00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:10.000
especially me. By the time I moved to Texas,

00:28:10.019 --> 00:28:12.759
I had moved like six or seven times. And then

00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:16.299
while in Texas, you know, I moved from Baytown.

00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:20.160
to Katie and neither one of those schools had

00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:25.380
like cultural competency initiative so you know

00:28:25.380 --> 00:28:27.039
they weren't worried about the black kids in

00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:29.420
the classes you know what were you learning you

00:28:29.420 --> 00:28:32.059
know the influence of the material on our education

00:28:32.059 --> 00:28:34.720
and cultural diversity development so I kind

00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:39.619
of had to like pick pick and choose okay or more

00:28:39.619 --> 00:28:41.720
so like I had to make those breadcrumbs a feast.

00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:44.640
So like by the time I got to like 10th grade

00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:46.619
when we was running in Hurston, which like the

00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:49.099
only book we read for a Black author, 10th grade,

00:28:49.259 --> 00:28:50.440
like this was one of the greatest books ever.

00:28:50.500 --> 00:28:53.259
I still have that copy. Because it was like the

00:28:53.259 --> 00:28:55.359
first time someone was speaking the language

00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:58.460
of my grandmother's like in school, you know.

00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:03.039
But it was like that, it was like picking your,

00:29:03.740 --> 00:29:06.990
you're doing your best. For me, like, I think

00:29:06.990 --> 00:29:10.529
subconsciously, I do my best to find myself in

00:29:10.529 --> 00:29:13.730
those small pockets that were allowed, you know,

00:29:14.269 --> 00:29:17.170
a glimpse into who we were through curriculum.

00:29:18.529 --> 00:29:20.690
There was like one creative writing course I

00:29:20.690 --> 00:29:23.269
ever took in high school. It was like, I think

00:29:23.269 --> 00:29:27.289
it was sophomore year, maybe, sophomore, junior

00:29:27.289 --> 00:29:30.069
year. And it was like the first time, like, an

00:29:30.069 --> 00:29:33.569
educator had affirmed my intellectual product,

00:29:33.809 --> 00:29:37.700
like, I can't remember her name. I don't remember

00:29:37.700 --> 00:29:39.559
the class. I don't remember what I wrote, but

00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:41.839
I do remember her, you know, keeping me up after

00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:43.420
class and saying like, this is really, really

00:29:43.420 --> 00:29:47.819
good. Like, please keep it this. And it didn't

00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:50.240
happen after that in high school. It didn't happen

00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:52.500
before that. It was like that isolated moment.

00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:55.900
So for me, in terms of like writers and writing,

00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:59.240
my kid is having a blast over there. Watch this

00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:02.759
boy in five square pants. For me, in terms of

00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:04.609
writing, It's funny, like bringing up hip hop

00:30:04.609 --> 00:30:07.609
is important because like that, even though I

00:30:07.609 --> 00:30:10.349
didn't write raps, if you hear my work, you know,

00:30:10.410 --> 00:30:12.769
this is an eternal musicality that comes from

00:30:12.769 --> 00:30:15.569
the amount of hip hop that I consumed growing

00:30:15.569 --> 00:30:19.309
up. For better or worse, like I had memorized

00:30:19.309 --> 00:30:21.890
all of Snoop Dogg's first album, like all of

00:30:21.890 --> 00:30:24.130
Def certificate, I memorized all of Pac's work.

00:30:24.879 --> 00:30:27.440
going into high school and just like, and then

00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:29.180
I grew up in the internet era. So we had, you

00:30:29.180 --> 00:30:32.880
know, YouTube and who was Napster. So I'm just

00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:36.400
consuming all of this hip hop from around the

00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:39.279
world. That was a big hip hop cat. Like, you

00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:42.500
know, and so he just kept albums out. Got to

00:30:42.500 --> 00:30:44.480
listen to them all. And then, like, I went to

00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:46.240
go seek that out because the stories that were

00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:48.920
being told, you know, like Scarface is my favorite

00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:51.799
MC just because of his storytelling proficiency.

00:30:52.710 --> 00:30:56.069
And like it taught me that like, I think subconsciously

00:30:56.069 --> 00:30:58.690
taught me, oh wait, my words are a vehicle, kind

00:30:58.690 --> 00:31:01.849
of like out of my shame, like out of my depression,

00:31:01.890 --> 00:31:05.490
like my words can be that. And so for me, you

00:31:05.490 --> 00:31:08.690
know, it was like everything outside of school,

00:31:08.950 --> 00:31:12.109
observing, consuming, you know, the craft from

00:31:12.109 --> 00:31:14.190
others that by the time like I began to take

00:31:14.190 --> 00:31:16.849
poetry like seriously, like outside of this being

00:31:16.849 --> 00:31:19.670
something extracurricular, like I had the toolkit

00:31:19.670 --> 00:31:23.640
because I had been consuming so much hip hop

00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:26.619
from so many places, you know, so many lyrics,

00:31:26.779 --> 00:31:28.900
so many stories, so many perspectives, so many,

00:31:28.900 --> 00:31:31.059
you know, political identities and whatever have

00:31:31.059 --> 00:31:33.380
you, I've been sharing so much that I was, I

00:31:33.380 --> 00:31:39.259
was prepared. Word, word. Now, listen, I appreciate,

00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:42.319
I appreciate both your, you know, both your stories.

00:31:42.380 --> 00:31:45.960
It resonates, right? Your, your journey, it resonates,

00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:48.279
you know, with me and thinking about, again,

00:31:48.339 --> 00:31:53.019
the influence of of hip hop, the the challenges

00:31:53.019 --> 00:31:57.480
that we navigate as black boys and black men

00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:00.819
to to even get to the point where we are today.

00:32:00.819 --> 00:32:07.000
Right. And still have a practice that is meaningful,

00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:11.859
that remains circling back, I said, you know.

00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.319
I first remember like creative writing when during

00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:18.920
my little stint at 19 for 48 hours in jail, but

00:32:18.920 --> 00:32:20.859
then I had when you brought up allot if you brought

00:32:20.859 --> 00:32:24.640
up likes to use I had to go back to ninth grade

00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.880
and Listening to get hip -hop influence listening

00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:32.259
to alias four -page letter and it was this sister

00:32:32.259 --> 00:32:35.259
I was digging her and I was like, all right,

00:32:35.259 --> 00:32:39.640
what can I do? I went and got This I went to

00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:45.630
the library. I got Paul Lawrence Dunbar's poetry.

00:32:46.349 --> 00:32:49.049
I took something and copied it word for word.

00:32:49.690 --> 00:32:51.349
You know what I'm saying? So I had about five,

00:32:51.369 --> 00:32:53.950
six pages. I gave it to the homie Jameer Rittenberg.

00:32:54.069 --> 00:32:56.690
I said, yo, get this to her because they ride

00:32:56.690 --> 00:32:59.849
the same cheese bus. You gave it to her. I hear

00:32:59.849 --> 00:33:02.630
from her, you know, he was still we went to school.

00:33:02.750 --> 00:33:05.890
We graduated. I was a little salty. You know,

00:33:05.930 --> 00:33:08.309
she ended up being like a close friend for like

00:33:08.309 --> 00:33:10.069
a few years when we would go to like different

00:33:10.069 --> 00:33:11.769
poetry events. And she was like, yeah, I got

00:33:11.769 --> 00:33:13.369
this letter. I got the letter that you got. It

00:33:13.369 --> 00:33:16.049
was it was nice. It was sweet. We laughed about

00:33:16.049 --> 00:33:19.650
it. She was like, yo, you know what she was navigating

00:33:19.650 --> 00:33:23.569
during that time. Right. And again, we get so

00:33:23.569 --> 00:33:26.730
stuck oneself. All right, and what we're feeling,

00:33:26.789 --> 00:33:28.750
what we're experiencing, we'll forget that others

00:33:28.750 --> 00:33:32.630
are experiencing life as well. So yeah, that

00:33:32.630 --> 00:33:35.569
was my first foray into the - Work that shit

00:33:35.569 --> 00:33:42.829
out on your own, but hit me back. Word, word.

00:33:43.109 --> 00:33:47.230
So you both brought up the origins of Fellowship

00:33:47.230 --> 00:33:50.650
of the Griots, where you two met at, I believe

00:33:50.650 --> 00:33:54.079
it was Brother to Brother. So you met at brother

00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:57.359
to brother. So what was it about that experience

00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.680
and about one another where you're like, listen,

00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:05.559
we need to create something. And I want to create

00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:07.619
this for you. I know you said you're both fond

00:34:07.619 --> 00:34:09.860
of one another's work, but what is it that you

00:34:09.860 --> 00:34:13.400
noticed as far as was it any any gaps in the

00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:16.300
literary world when it comes to black folk in

00:34:16.300 --> 00:34:19.260
spaces and community for us to convene? Like,

00:34:19.300 --> 00:34:22.199
what was truly the inspiration behind the creation,

00:34:22.460 --> 00:34:27.340
the creation of Fellowship of the Griots? I could

00:34:27.340 --> 00:34:31.219
tackle that first. So, I mean, I think everything

00:34:31.219 --> 00:34:35.639
has been fairly organic. Um, you know, it started

00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:38.699
out as, you know, just an option for us to write

00:34:38.699 --> 00:34:42.320
on Saturdays. Uh, that was the initial sort of

00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:44.739
ask, you know, LTP texting me. I was outside

00:34:44.739 --> 00:34:48.980
of it. I think it was Pizza Hut. Kind of the

00:34:48.980 --> 00:34:50.460
play and how rent was going to get paid. And

00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:51.900
then I get this text and was like, Hey, brother,

00:34:52.099 --> 00:34:54.659
let's keep writing. I was like, let's do it.

00:34:56.059 --> 00:34:59.639
We had three writers, myself, Tief, and another

00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:02.159
writer out of Houston. And then, you know, he

00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:05.500
began to invite folks from his writing cohorts,

00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:07.340
the folks that I knew began to come and all of

00:35:07.340 --> 00:35:09.059
a sudden we had this community that just was

00:35:09.059 --> 00:35:13.519
growing. And by the time we decided to move forward

00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:17.539
with an event, which is called Communion. which

00:35:17.539 --> 00:35:19.840
is a public reading opportunity for artists in

00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:22.739
our spaces, we realized like, wait a minute,

00:35:23.059 --> 00:35:27.800
you know, actually it was the advice of another

00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:29.699
member of ours is like, hey, y 'all have more

00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:33.599
than just a workshop. Like you have other offerings,

00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:37.079
like this could be more than that. And so by

00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:38.420
the time we said and realized that was what they

00:35:38.420 --> 00:35:42.860
needed to. we need to consider ourselves as an

00:35:42.860 --> 00:35:45.639
organization, you know, beyond just this individual

00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:47.400
workshop at the time, not as weekend words, still

00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:50.639
weekend words, but we needed a banner. And so

00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:53.800
we, you know, just surveyed the community, different

00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:57.239
title ideas or different, yeah, different banner,

00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:01.059
title ideas, and the word fellowship came, coming

00:36:01.059 --> 00:36:03.739
back, we all kept coming back with a fellowship

00:36:03.739 --> 00:36:07.239
degree of ours. What was the other name? And

00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:09.900
then we found out somebody else. Oh, man. It

00:36:09.900 --> 00:36:14.179
was like that was gathering. Gathering of the

00:36:14.179 --> 00:36:17.699
griot. Yeah, they had like, you know, I've never

00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:19.340
I've never missed out on them. But, you know,

00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:20.900
we wanted to be respectful of another black space.

00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:23.400
I'm not going. Yeah. You know, you know, colonize

00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:25.440
the joint. Right. No. So it's like, let's, you

00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:27.159
know, we could be creative and come up with something

00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:29.139
else. So, you know, with fellowship, the griot

00:36:29.139 --> 00:36:33.159
is never. every program from ceremonies to you

00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:35.300
know a place to put the period and communion

00:36:35.300 --> 00:36:38.280
and even wicked words is a response to as you

00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:42.219
mentioned like gaps that can be filled and less

00:36:42.219 --> 00:36:47.039
so about craft more so about community like what

00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:49.480
do we need from one another in the spaces that

00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:52.079
we inhabit So that's what we think about first,

00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:54.320
who's in our spaces, and what do they need, and

00:36:54.320 --> 00:36:56.380
there we build out, you know, our programming.

00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:58.360
But everything has been organic, it's been a

00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:00.480
response to community, like listening to the

00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:01.940
needs of those who are in the space, and our

00:37:01.940 --> 00:37:04.179
needs as writers too, but, you know, being attentive

00:37:04.179 --> 00:37:06.579
and aware of who comes in our spaces, and, you

00:37:06.579 --> 00:37:10.739
know, what we can, you know, offer them. How

00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:19.840
about you, Alati? Initially, it was Just a response

00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:23.219
to my own selfish needs, right? Danny and I found

00:37:23.219 --> 00:37:26.119
ourselves in a Saturday space that lasted an

00:37:26.119 --> 00:37:32.059
hour. But it left a lot to be desired about what

00:37:32.059 --> 00:37:34.940
it could look like and what it could be. And

00:37:34.940 --> 00:37:40.900
so I said, yo, let's try this. And then as we've

00:37:40.900 --> 00:37:42.599
continued to grow and more people have entered

00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:46.969
the space and tell us how important it is, not

00:37:46.969 --> 00:37:48.610
just for their writing lives, in many cases,

00:37:48.650 --> 00:37:52.349
for their lives. It's like, yo, we got something

00:37:52.349 --> 00:38:00.829
here. And for me, of course, my day job, mobile

00:38:00.829 --> 00:38:04.070
access, right? Access. And so I was like, we

00:38:04.070 --> 00:38:07.110
have something here. And we have the ability

00:38:07.110 --> 00:38:09.130
to provide people with access to things that

00:38:09.130 --> 00:38:11.750
they don't get normally, or things that may cost,

00:38:12.150 --> 00:38:14.289
right? I went to three or four retreats last

00:38:14.289 --> 00:38:17.809
year. I probably spent $20 ,000. that people

00:38:17.809 --> 00:38:21.710
cannot do that. Yeah. And so, we can provide

00:38:21.710 --> 00:38:25.050
them with those same type of experiences for

00:38:25.050 --> 00:38:28.590
free or at a minimum cost. We're doing a great

00:38:28.590 --> 00:38:32.309
thing. And then, you know, I've been fortunate

00:38:32.309 --> 00:38:36.949
enough to to to those folks and you know, who

00:38:36.949 --> 00:38:40.489
I love and who love me and we can provide them

00:38:40.489 --> 00:38:44.949
access to to craft talks and you know, and other

00:38:44.949 --> 00:38:50.769
type of events. at no cost and it's like what

00:38:50.769 --> 00:38:52.929
we're doing is we're providing access to a community

00:38:52.929 --> 00:38:55.289
of people who love to tell stories who love to

00:38:55.289 --> 00:38:58.530
tell their story right their own narrative and

00:38:58.530 --> 00:39:01.250
we're doing it in an affirming loving space each

00:39:01.250 --> 00:39:06.289
of our spaces follows the same the same theory

00:39:06.289 --> 00:39:10.929
affirmation right affirmation only and that doesn't

00:39:10.929 --> 00:39:13.989
wonder to you because you go into the MFH or

00:39:13.989 --> 00:39:16.469
you go into you know some of these workshops

00:39:16.469 --> 00:39:19.130
and fellowships and retreats and your work is

00:39:19.130 --> 00:39:22.090
knocked down and it almost makes you feel like

00:39:22.090 --> 00:39:25.110
I don't want to do this shit anymore but to find

00:39:25.110 --> 00:39:27.949
a space where people look like you talk like

00:39:27.949 --> 00:39:31.269
you come from place you come from or may may

00:39:31.269 --> 00:39:34.570
look like you in different type of spaces and

00:39:34.570 --> 00:39:37.329
they tell you yo I love this line right here

00:39:37.329 --> 00:39:40.800
this was dope I saw myself that does wonders

00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:43.980
for you as a writer. And so any gap we're filling

00:39:43.980 --> 00:39:51.139
is really in the soul. Sit with that for a second.

00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:56.579
Nah, legitimately. And I can attest to that,

00:39:57.219 --> 00:40:01.280
right? Yeah, I was on... I was on, I guess when

00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:03.619
folk hear this, it will now be about two weeks,

00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:07.619
two or three weeks. We had Casey Layman on on

00:40:07.619 --> 00:40:11.199
ceremonies and we didn't get an opportunity to

00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:15.099
share just based off some time constraints. But

00:40:15.099 --> 00:40:19.880
what I wrote was something regarding my daughter.

00:40:20.219 --> 00:40:24.760
The prompt was about a daily practice. And I

00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:28.940
wrote about. a practice that I have with my daughter

00:40:28.940 --> 00:40:33.880
where now I kiss her on the head, right? She

00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:37.079
does it as I say, hey, give me a kiss. She's

00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:39.400
older now. She's a teenager. She's 16. So she'll

00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:42.659
put her head out. And for me, she's been doing

00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:46.679
that now for about five or six years. And that's

00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:50.500
a practice that is is so meaningful to me. But

00:40:50.500 --> 00:40:55.000
I was able to truly explore. why that was meaningful

00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:00.219
to me. I was able to sit in and reflect on it

00:41:00.219 --> 00:41:03.199
being, you know, partially about her transition

00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:07.360
from a from a young child to a to a young woman

00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:14.000
and her having body autonomy and various things.

00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:16.960
Right. And so it helped me understand that. And

00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:21.530
for me, it was it was soothing. To to my spirit

00:41:21.530 --> 00:41:25.190
to where I used to get frustrated where it's

00:41:25.190 --> 00:41:28.670
just like No, but like I saw her today, right?

00:41:28.670 --> 00:41:30.269
She's sick. I'm still gonna kiss you on your

00:41:30.269 --> 00:41:33.090
head. I'll kiss the flu But it's just like now

00:41:33.090 --> 00:41:35.949
this is our thing You know, this is our thing

00:41:35.949 --> 00:41:38.710
and it probably be our thing until you know,

00:41:38.710 --> 00:41:44.099
I transition, right? But I bring that up just

00:41:44.099 --> 00:41:47.619
to how it does speak to to the spirit and the

00:41:47.619 --> 00:41:50.639
work that you both Are doing in the space that

00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:55.300
that you provide? And how affirming it can be

00:41:55.300 --> 00:41:59.420
and with that being said And you both have alluded

00:41:59.420 --> 00:42:06.079
to it, but how how? important is storytelling

00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:11.260
to understanding one's mental health, understanding

00:42:11.260 --> 00:42:15.920
one's identity for those who subscribe to masculinity,

00:42:17.059 --> 00:42:19.719
specifically just being a pod for anybody who

00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:25.019
identify as being a man to masculinity, which

00:42:25.019 --> 00:42:28.219
I just look at being a full human being. How

00:42:28.219 --> 00:42:32.960
does storytelling offer insight into these areas

00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.769
from your perspective? I think authentic storytelling

00:42:37.769 --> 00:42:42.989
is the key, right? Because we can tell ourselves

00:42:42.989 --> 00:42:46.630
all kinds of stories. Like, man, I was out and

00:42:46.630 --> 00:42:49.349
I was killing. You know, they was all loving

00:42:49.349 --> 00:42:52.769
me and this, that. Third, I was okay. The real

00:42:52.769 --> 00:42:55.809
thing is I was miserable and I was, you know,

00:42:56.269 --> 00:42:58.550
and I was losing my money. Like, you know, you

00:42:58.550 --> 00:43:00.170
can tell yourselves different types of stories.

00:43:00.809 --> 00:43:03.929
So being able to tell yourself your own story

00:43:03.929 --> 00:43:08.239
authentically, really does a lot to centering

00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:12.460
who you are, right? And help you identify where

00:43:12.460 --> 00:43:15.800
your gaps are, where your strengths are. Where

00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:20.960
are the ways I can grow? Who's my real friends?

00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:23.760
Who can support me? Because when I was down,

00:43:24.099 --> 00:43:27.199
this person held me up, right? And so I think

00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:32.059
learning to tell your authentic story is the

00:43:32.059 --> 00:43:38.530
optimum importance. How about you, Don? I think

00:43:38.530 --> 00:43:43.150
I'll second that. I think the thing about writing

00:43:43.150 --> 00:43:46.030
as a practice is that it's just one of the most

00:43:46.030 --> 00:43:51.250
isolated artistic practices one could undertake.

00:43:55.909 --> 00:43:58.809
In that, I think there is a power to, and this

00:43:58.809 --> 00:44:00.610
is of course coming off of us talking about the

00:44:00.610 --> 00:44:02.269
importance of community, but even in community,

00:44:02.730 --> 00:44:04.710
when you're on that page, whether you're sitting

00:44:04.710 --> 00:44:07.610
at your laptop or, you know, notepad or, you

00:44:07.610 --> 00:44:11.909
know, whatever have you, it's you and you. And

00:44:11.909 --> 00:44:14.030
only, you know, if you're telling the truth.

00:44:14.889 --> 00:44:17.010
There are plenty of people, I talk about this

00:44:17.010 --> 00:44:18.449
all the time, like there's plenty of times I

00:44:18.449 --> 00:44:21.989
come to the page masked up, like, and I'm talented

00:44:21.989 --> 00:44:25.110
enough to get by, but I also know how that feels.

00:44:25.610 --> 00:44:28.250
Like I didn't, I didn't commit. And I've called

00:44:28.250 --> 00:44:33.420
myself out on that, on the page. So yeah, it's

00:44:33.420 --> 00:44:36.940
a thing where like, you know, you can lie to

00:44:36.940 --> 00:44:39.940
me, but you can't lie to yourself. Even when

00:44:39.940 --> 00:44:42.239
you think you're doing the best job at it, like

00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:44.599
you can't lie to yourself. The body knows and

00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:47.300
ultimately does the body know depending on, because

00:44:47.300 --> 00:44:51.519
it's all synergistic flow in my opinion. So yeah,

00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:56.679
just authenticity. The enemy of masculinity,

00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:00.840
authenticity. And storytelling is also a record,

00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:04.889
right? And so it's a record of a life lead, of

00:45:04.889 --> 00:45:08.409
a moment that you had, of a legacy that you're

00:45:08.409 --> 00:45:11.650
trying to build. So you're also not just telling

00:45:11.650 --> 00:45:14.329
the story for here and now, but you're telling

00:45:14.329 --> 00:45:19.230
that story for posterity. And so it's identifying

00:45:19.230 --> 00:45:26.590
who you want to be remembered as. When I go and

00:45:26.590 --> 00:45:28.389
people speak of me, they're going to tell you

00:45:28.389 --> 00:45:33.300
who I was to them. And all those stories will

00:45:33.300 --> 00:45:38.880
come together. And it will build my legacy. That's

00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:41.280
also what storytelling does. And I think people

00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:44.840
consider it for the moment. But it is really

00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:48.239
a record, because if we weren't telling stories,

00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:52.619
how would we know where we come from? If the

00:45:52.619 --> 00:45:54.659
original grills weren't telling the stories,

00:45:54.780 --> 00:45:56.519
how would we have held on to our heritage and

00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:59.960
our culture? How would we have known how to get

00:45:59.960 --> 00:46:09.980
by, how to get over? So my final question is

00:46:09.980 --> 00:46:13.739
regarding just like practical strategies and

00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:16.380
tools for folk who want to use storytelling.

00:46:17.059 --> 00:46:21.059
or use the narrative as a therapeutic or empowerment

00:46:21.059 --> 00:46:23.820
tool. So as a therapist, especially working with

00:46:23.820 --> 00:46:26.699
brothers who are navigating their father wound,

00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:30.699
something I always recommend is for them to write

00:46:30.699 --> 00:46:33.179
their father a letter, whether their father is

00:46:33.179 --> 00:46:35.659
alive, whether their father has transitioned,

00:46:36.659 --> 00:46:38.900
whether you send it or not, that's completely

00:46:38.900 --> 00:46:41.360
up to you, whether you give it to them, whether

00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:44.360
you burn it, no matter what you do, right? but

00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:48.139
to get out these thoughts, feelings, and emotions

00:46:48.139 --> 00:46:52.019
regarding this relationship. So what practical

00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:56.539
strategies can you both offer with regards to

00:46:56.539 --> 00:47:00.300
using narrative as a therapeutic or empowerment

00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:04.019
tool for brothers? You say it right in the name,

00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:08.780
right? It's an approach that you all use, narrative

00:47:08.780 --> 00:47:12.050
therapy, right? Yeah. you know, using that to

00:47:12.050 --> 00:47:14.610
tell a story to help you navigate your traumas,

00:47:15.170 --> 00:47:17.030
your, your, you know, some of your shortcomings,

00:47:17.110 --> 00:47:19.389
some of your anxieties, you know, journaling.

00:47:22.110 --> 00:47:24.789
Back in, you know, Ghostface's first album came

00:47:24.789 --> 00:47:28.269
out, man, you know, Cappadonna said, every evening,

00:47:28.530 --> 00:47:33.650
I have a by myself meeting. Right? Took it as,

00:47:33.989 --> 00:47:35.809
and I heard it, I was like, that's dope shit.

00:47:36.250 --> 00:47:38.230
But he took, he was spending time with himself.

00:47:39.320 --> 00:47:41.980
I tell guys, oh, you know what? I could journal.

00:47:42.820 --> 00:47:44.760
That's what I by myself mean. I could journal.

00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:52.280
And so therapeutically, it gets it out. And it

00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:54.440
can look different ways. It can look like you

00:47:54.440 --> 00:47:57.119
get home and you get in your driveway. You take

00:47:57.119 --> 00:47:59.059
that five to seven minutes to decompress and

00:47:59.059 --> 00:48:00.860
get all the shit out of you. Same way you wipe

00:48:00.860 --> 00:48:02.960
your feet before you walk in the house. You kind

00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:05.679
of get that out. And it gives you a chance to

00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:09.929
process today. If you need to get mad at yourself

00:48:09.929 --> 00:48:12.409
or something for two minutes, do that. And then

00:48:12.409 --> 00:48:16.829
you move on, move forward. And so to me, the

00:48:16.829 --> 00:48:23.989
strategy is learning how to tell the story of

00:48:23.989 --> 00:48:29.130
the challenges of that with a professional. I'm

00:48:29.130 --> 00:48:35.969
married to a therapist by trade. I know the things

00:48:35.969 --> 00:48:40.190
that she works with people, you know, and I'm

00:48:40.190 --> 00:48:42.090
able to, fortunately for myself, I've been able

00:48:42.090 --> 00:48:46.630
to keep, you know, stay on the positive side

00:48:46.630 --> 00:48:51.369
of my mental health. But I also know some tools

00:48:51.369 --> 00:48:53.650
and tips that I can use if necessary. Like, I

00:48:53.650 --> 00:48:57.409
know when I'm too angry, but I run off of anger

00:48:57.409 --> 00:48:59.730
for the most part. But I know when it gets too

00:48:59.730 --> 00:49:02.010
much. I know at that point I need to sit down,

00:49:02.030 --> 00:49:03.989
take a break, I'll go book a trip, I'll go to

00:49:03.989 --> 00:49:06.400
the movies, you know. those types of things for

00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:08.460
you know go to the movies more practical than

00:49:08.460 --> 00:49:12.260
booking a trip but you know but i journal i go

00:49:12.260 --> 00:49:14.320
sit and listen to music i listen to stevie wonder

00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:18.159
like stevie brings me into a space where i can

00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:22.139
be into the music because in many cases he's

00:49:22.139 --> 00:49:24.699
going to speak to me right yeah and his other

00:49:24.699 --> 00:49:28.400
artists do the same thing you know to find what

00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:31.820
it is for you that that brings you into you know

00:49:31.820 --> 00:49:37.320
that center What about you, Don? Um, yeah, I

00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:39.780
mean, anything I say here, this is coming from

00:49:39.780 --> 00:49:42.440
the ideal, because there's certainly no deficits

00:49:42.440 --> 00:49:45.179
in my in my practice, I need a journal more.

00:49:46.260 --> 00:49:50.599
But for me, it's reading, right? Like, it's,

00:49:50.599 --> 00:49:53.360
it's reading with the intention to learn about

00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:57.369
what's possible in narrative. finding books,

00:49:57.570 --> 00:49:59.510
and a lot of brothers, you know, brothers read,

00:49:59.650 --> 00:50:00.949
they say, what are you reading? Are you reading

00:50:00.949 --> 00:50:03.170
fiction? Are you reading poetry? Or if you're

00:50:03.170 --> 00:50:05.050
reading nonfiction, what kind of nonfiction is

00:50:05.050 --> 00:50:09.570
it? They branch outside of just, you know, the

00:50:09.570 --> 00:50:12.670
laws of power and, you know, books of the 40

00:50:12.670 --> 00:50:14.989
laws of power and books that kind of center,

00:50:14.989 --> 00:50:18.829
you know, financial literacy or, you know, kind

00:50:18.829 --> 00:50:22.460
of like... focus on protecting the masculine

00:50:22.460 --> 00:50:25.880
ideal identity and branch out in the books that

00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:29.960
to do with, you know, the interior and, you know,

00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:33.059
like I said, the father wound and, you know,

00:50:33.320 --> 00:50:36.320
managing one's anger or managing one's emotional

00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:39.440
life relationships beyond just kind of the superficial.

00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:43.199
I mean, for me, it was it was Chris Abani's dog

00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:46.360
woman that taught me if any book taught me how

00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:49.139
to write poetry is Chris Abani's dog woman. So

00:50:49.139 --> 00:50:50.800
much so that I got a tattoo on my arm, like,

00:50:50.840 --> 00:50:55.579
the cover. And it's because, like, I learned

00:50:55.579 --> 00:50:58.500
what it means to go deep reading that book. I

00:50:58.500 --> 00:50:59.920
mean, you have, you know, canceling is heavy

00:50:59.920 --> 00:51:02.659
behind you, right? We've had them on twice. If

00:51:02.659 --> 00:51:06.280
anyone in memoir, in our fiction, teaches you

00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:08.480
how to go deep, it's gonna be him, right? But,

00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:12.699
like, seeking literature with the intention of

00:51:12.699 --> 00:51:14.760
learning what's possible in narrative and not

00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:17.869
emulating that. but considering like okay what

00:51:17.869 --> 00:51:22.070
techniques are they doing to tap into you know

00:51:22.070 --> 00:51:24.349
the power of that sentence like the power of

00:51:24.349 --> 00:51:27.090
that paragraph and then what does that mean for

00:51:27.090 --> 00:51:29.789
you as the writer right how what does that mean

00:51:29.789 --> 00:51:31.969
for you and your practice as a writer and how

00:51:31.969 --> 00:51:36.250
can you take that to the page um so i think reading

00:51:36.250 --> 00:51:39.170
for me is as much as important as a practice

00:51:39.170 --> 00:51:42.889
um in that respect Damn, I skipped right over

00:51:42.889 --> 00:51:46.949
reading, Mike. I don't run a bath and take a

00:51:46.949 --> 00:51:51.550
book with me. I gotta say, it's the ideal. It's

00:51:51.550 --> 00:51:55.989
the ideal. Yeah, yeah. Word, word. So with that

00:51:55.989 --> 00:52:00.230
being said, I want to shift gears, add some levity

00:52:00.230 --> 00:52:03.849
to the pod. Um, even though again, there's no

00:52:03.849 --> 00:52:06.170
trust me. There's nothing wrong with us being

00:52:06.170 --> 00:52:07.750
deep, especially as brothers That's the whole

00:52:07.750 --> 00:52:10.030
purpose of all of this, but I do want to add

00:52:10.030 --> 00:52:14.010
some a little bit of levity to this So I want

00:52:14.010 --> 00:52:17.590
you both, you know, I wasn't I was about to send

00:52:17.590 --> 00:52:20.010
you the question, but I was like nah Nah, i'm

00:52:20.010 --> 00:52:23.809
not going to do it. I want you all to give me

00:52:23.809 --> 00:52:30.150
your top four writers That have inspired you

00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:36.340
Top four writers see cuz cuz five, right? That

00:52:36.340 --> 00:52:39.300
number five is just like four and five are usually

00:52:39.300 --> 00:52:42.079
like interchangeable. You know what I mean? So

00:52:42.079 --> 00:52:45.000
I wanted to make it a little a little tough Who

00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:48.179
are your top four writers that have inspired

00:52:48.179 --> 00:52:54.019
you? And so we're gonna we're gonna start with

00:52:54.019 --> 00:52:55.739
you we will start with you Donnie cuz you look

00:52:55.739 --> 00:52:57.800
like you you going through it right now like

00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:02.920
That's tough. I mean, one is like... And before

00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:07.659
you go, for your number one, say just a little...

00:53:07.659 --> 00:53:09.539
Oh, we got a rank? Yeah. Well, no, no, no. We're

00:53:09.539 --> 00:53:11.360
not for rank, because that's going to be tough,

00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:13.519
right? That's going to be tough. But no, for

00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:16.099
one of them, just give a little bit of reasoning

00:53:16.099 --> 00:53:21.800
as to why. All right. One of them is super recent.

00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:24.059
I mean, as in the last two years, but it's had

00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:27.539
such an impression on me. I can't not talk about

00:53:27.539 --> 00:53:31.760
George Jackson. specifically blood in my eye.

00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:36.780
I got Throes. I mean, I mentioned, you know,

00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:39.139
the eyes of watching God. That is such an impression

00:53:39.139 --> 00:53:42.300
on me in just terms of like what books can be,

00:53:42.440 --> 00:53:46.639
what writers can do. Oh man, it's too, that is

00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:53.139
tough. I'll go with, I'll go with Chris Ibani.

00:53:53.679 --> 00:53:57.820
I mean, I don't think. I mean, poetry is subjective,

00:53:57.820 --> 00:53:59.840
you know, in terms of appreciating some love,

00:53:59.980 --> 00:54:02.920
but for me, I just don't think there's a more

00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:05.880
technically sound and proficient poet, you know,

00:54:05.920 --> 00:54:09.659
for me, for the kind of poetry I like. And then

00:54:09.659 --> 00:54:12.420
there's gonna be Baldwin. I mean, that's the

00:54:12.420 --> 00:54:15.380
goat, that's the god, that's the chief, that's

00:54:15.380 --> 00:54:18.980
everything. You know, the minute I read Another

00:54:18.980 --> 00:54:21.599
Country, I knew then, I was like, it don't...

00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:26.940
It's this. It's this. We'll go with those four.

00:54:27.619 --> 00:54:28.940
All right, all right. You ain't struggled with

00:54:28.940 --> 00:54:30.480
the four. You ain't struggled with the four.

00:54:30.619 --> 00:54:35.000
What about you, Alla T? So my four will look

00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:39.739
a little different. Behind me, there's an entire

00:54:39.739 --> 00:54:44.460
shelf of Walter Mosley books. So I'll go with

00:54:44.460 --> 00:54:52.710
Mosley. I will go with Donald Goins. When I was

00:54:52.710 --> 00:54:55.510
about 16 or 17, I would go to the Barnes and

00:54:55.510 --> 00:54:58.010
Noble or Borders each time I got my hands on

00:54:58.010 --> 00:55:02.030
money and I'd buy one or two books. And I started

00:55:02.030 --> 00:55:03.710
with the two of them because they really taught

00:55:03.710 --> 00:55:06.730
me that it was okay to write about Black life,

00:55:06.909 --> 00:55:13.889
right? And not just a way where it was pretty

00:55:13.889 --> 00:55:17.610
and also not stereotypical, but authentic, right?

00:55:23.110 --> 00:55:26.090
It would be easy to say Baldwin, of course, there's

00:55:26.090 --> 00:55:29.409
a huge portrait of Baldwin behind me, but Donnie

00:55:29.409 --> 00:55:31.849
already used that one, so I'm not gonna say Baldwin.

00:55:33.030 --> 00:55:38.550
Judy Blume, of course. Yeah, because as a kid

00:55:38.550 --> 00:55:41.090
coming up reading her stories, writing about

00:55:41.090 --> 00:55:45.050
kids, it was really important for me to, I didn't

00:55:45.050 --> 00:55:47.989
see myself in the stories, but I was able to

00:55:47.989 --> 00:55:53.019
see children. having these very outlandish experiences.

00:55:53.340 --> 00:55:58.000
Yeah. Um and so we'll go there and contemporary.

00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:03.900
I'll throw some contemporary in there. It's easy

00:56:03.900 --> 00:56:09.500
to say, but I'll say Jasmine Ward. Okay. Jasmine

00:56:09.500 --> 00:56:15.599
Ward. Uh huh. Like her storytelling is otherworldly.

00:56:15.860 --> 00:56:18.300
You don't just come out and win national book

00:56:18.300 --> 00:56:22.599
awards like in the at the rate she has and not

00:56:22.599 --> 00:56:26.179
be the dopest living writer that's out there

00:56:26.179 --> 00:56:30.300
right so once again uh more authentic depictions

00:56:30.300 --> 00:56:34.579
of black life you know black southern life i

00:56:34.579 --> 00:56:38.480
have a very different experience and lens but

00:56:38.480 --> 00:56:43.380
yeah i would go with those for balloon moseley

00:56:43.380 --> 00:56:48.300
goings and work word word that's dope i'm not

00:56:48.300 --> 00:56:52.860
gonna give four I'm not gonna do that. So I'm

00:56:52.860 --> 00:56:55.599
glad y 'all, because y 'all actually named two

00:56:55.599 --> 00:56:58.980
people in mine. So Jesmyn Ward just started reading

00:56:58.980 --> 00:57:06.119
her. And Baldwin, of course, he's a phenomenal

00:57:06.119 --> 00:57:08.480
brother. I think that was really like my foray

00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:14.039
into reading. We talk about the importance within

00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:16.639
the practice of writing is reading. For me, I

00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:20.960
really started reading It's 2025, maybe about

00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:25.239
2018, 2017 when I started going to Uncle Bobby's

00:57:25.239 --> 00:57:27.099
and folk are like, Phil, you got all these degrees.

00:57:27.400 --> 00:57:32.699
And I'm like, listen, I can I can write for academia.

00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:35.599
That's you know, that's nothing that didn't require

00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:38.380
me really to read, you know, or if I did read,

00:57:38.440 --> 00:57:40.880
I'm not reading full chapters. I'm not, you know,

00:57:40.880 --> 00:57:43.280
I'm able to do enough to get past. And so for

00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:46.019
me, once I really got into reading, I noticed

00:57:46.019 --> 00:57:49.690
the quality of my writing. it got better. I noticed

00:57:49.690 --> 00:57:53.510
the quality of my life got better, right? And

00:57:53.510 --> 00:57:57.389
just in this practice of reading and writing.

00:57:58.190 --> 00:58:02.289
So that's dope. That's dope. That's huge, right?

00:58:02.550 --> 00:58:07.230
Reading. Yeah. And I'm glad Donnie spoke on it

00:58:07.230 --> 00:58:08.650
earlier. He's like, yeah, it can't just be reading

00:58:08.650 --> 00:58:13.539
the 48 miles of power. All right, what is it?

00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:16.760
Think rich, think rich, think rich or rich or

00:58:16.760 --> 00:58:18.699
something like no shade to people who use them

00:58:18.699 --> 00:58:21.260
do whatever you gotta do to stimulate your mind,

00:58:21.260 --> 00:58:25.920
but it's so it's a world outside of as Donnie

00:58:25.920 --> 00:58:28.900
put it right the this masculine paradigm that

00:58:28.900 --> 00:58:33.059
all of these these types of books reinforce.

00:58:33.260 --> 00:58:35.179
It's all about dominance, right? It's all about

00:58:35.179 --> 00:58:37.760
being the richest, the strongest, the most, you

00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:39.659
know, the most mindful all these other things.

00:58:39.880 --> 00:58:42.900
It's like, read some fiction. Right learn that

00:58:42.900 --> 00:58:45.480
it's okay to smile and breathe and have fun and

00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:48.380
to those off into these fantasy breath like it's

00:58:48.380 --> 00:58:50.820
okay All right, you ain't gotta be the hardest

00:58:50.820 --> 00:58:52.239
nigga all the time. You ain't gotta be styles

00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:55.820
P everywhere you go Yeah, right what she say

00:58:55.820 --> 00:58:58.519
I'm harder than concrete, you know, it was just

00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:00.880
like it was a dope bar, you know It's just like

00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:02.519
nah, you know, you don't have to live that way

00:59:02.519 --> 00:59:05.179
because your insides are gonna corrode from that,

00:59:05.179 --> 00:59:09.090
you know Listen, this has been this has been

00:59:09.090 --> 00:59:11.809
a dope conversation. I appreciate you brothers

00:59:11.809 --> 00:59:15.429
pulling up to have this conversation with me

00:59:15.429 --> 00:59:17.750
to tell us a little bit about your journey as

00:59:17.750 --> 00:59:21.829
individuals, as well as your journey as a duo

00:59:21.829 --> 00:59:25.739
with regards to fellowship. of the griots and

00:59:25.739 --> 00:59:28.179
so with that being said what do you all have

00:59:28.179 --> 00:59:30.880
coming up with regards to fellowship of the griots

00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:33.239
how can they how can they reach you how can folk

00:59:33.239 --> 00:59:37.340
participate and also because i do want folk to

00:59:37.340 --> 00:59:40.480
to have a actual tangible takeaway from this

00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:43.940
if you can offer a prompt write a prompt for

00:59:43.940 --> 00:59:47.059
somebody who for somebody who's listening and

00:59:47.059 --> 00:59:49.039
they're like yeah you know i want to write i

00:59:49.039 --> 00:59:51.199
feel like writing something can you offer a prompt

00:59:51.199 --> 00:59:56.150
to to get them started As far as what we have

00:59:56.150 --> 01:00:00.730
coming up, I am literally hosting a space right

01:00:00.730 --> 01:00:04.909
now while we're in here. So like we have people

01:00:04.909 --> 01:00:07.309
who come and write with us every Thursday night

01:00:07.309 --> 01:00:11.170
in our coworking group, which you were like the

01:00:11.170 --> 01:00:13.590
inspiration behind. They've been there forever.

01:00:14.750 --> 01:00:21.690
You ain't got to tell me, you know? Yeah. I know

01:00:21.690 --> 01:00:26.389
where my snitches get no, no, no. No, you worry,

01:00:26.570 --> 01:00:28.590
worry, worry. Now, hold, that's holding me accountable,

01:00:28.989 --> 01:00:30.730
right? That's what that, that's what that is.

01:00:30.849 --> 01:00:32.610
So, I appreciate that. That's one of the things

01:00:32.610 --> 01:00:34.610
we have coming up. Donny, you wanna go through

01:00:34.610 --> 01:00:39.010
it? Uh yeah, I mean, in order to, you wanna follow

01:00:39.010 --> 01:00:42.329
us? There's a few, few avenues. Uh we're primarily

01:00:42.329 --> 01:00:44.510
on Instagram. So, you can look up Fellowship

01:00:44.510 --> 01:00:47.610
Degrills on Instagram. If you want to get in

01:00:47.610 --> 01:00:50.869
contact with us, email us at fellowship .grios

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.outlook .com. We do have a monthly newsletter.

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We often do update to our email chain as well.

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We do have a Facebook this upcoming month. February,

01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:06.960
we get back to posting on there regularly. We

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have also a Linktree. So if you go to Linktree

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and look up Fellowship Degreos, you'll find us

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there as well, along with all of the updates

01:01:15.460 --> 01:01:21.360
on events in Events Central. As you ask for a

01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:23.719
prompt. A prompt, yeah, a quick prompt. But they

01:01:23.719 --> 01:01:25.739
gotta be not intricate, sophisticated. I mean,

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you know, we talking about the brothers. So the

01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:33.980
first prompt that I put into the group chat in

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the last ceremonies was to write a story about

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a black man who designates his sexual liberation

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as holy. So again, write a story about a black

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man who designates his sexual liberation as holy.

01:01:47.950 --> 01:01:50.230
Yeah, y 'all have fun with that, Johnny. Yeah,

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that's heavy. That's heavy, no pun intended.

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You know, the book behind me. Listen, man, I

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appreciate both you brothers for pulling up.

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I thank you for offering me your time, your wisdom,

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and your inspiration to continue in this practice

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of writing. So thank you both. Thank you, Brian.

01:02:14.369 --> 01:02:17.659
Thank you. Appreciate it. Great conversation.

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Thanks for the invitation.