1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,000
Hey, hey everyone.

2
00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:10,000
Super pumped to hang out with James today on the 99 Dev Problem Show.

3
00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,000
James, I would love for you to introduce yourself.

4
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,000
Yeah, I feel like I haven't done like an introduction in a long time.

5
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:21,000
For a while it was like, I don't know, a podcast or like video or whatever, everything about it.

6
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,000
Well, you're doing a lot of content yourself, so it's like, it's, you're on the other side sometimes, you know.

7
00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,000
Yeah.

8
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,000
Well, I've slowed down a lot.

9
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,000
It's been really interesting.

10
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,000
Like I haven't, haven't done traditional stuff that I had been doing since like September.

11
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,000
So it's been a nice break to kind of step away for a little bit.

12
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:39,000
But primarily I consider myself three things, developer, speaker, teacher.

13
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:44,000
And I've done some combination of those things professionally for over 10 years now.

14
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,000
Every time I say that, it gets longer and longer that I've been doing it.

15
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,000
It makes me feel older and older.

16
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:54,000
But currently the sum of that is I'm working at a company called Mixwift,

17
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,000
a visual builder that integrates with Next.js as the head of developer experience.

18
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,000
And they were acquired by BigCommerce last year.

19
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,000
So like an interesting mix.

20
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,000
We were talking about this beforehand of like really small startup vibe, like 18 people,

21
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,000
and then bigger company.

22
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,000
I don't know how big DC is, but like bigger company, different vibe, different culture.

23
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,000
So it's fun.

24
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,000
Yeah, absolutely.

25
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,000
I love your intro.

26
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,000
That's like really clear, right?

27
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,000
Developer, speaker, teacher, like it, it really encapsulates a very good view,

28
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,000
which is very accurate of what I know of you as well.

29
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:24,000
Yeah.

30
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,000
Yeah, I think so.

31
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:30,000
I've used that for years now because I just haven't found anything that's like concise

32
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,000
that really feels like it like addresses all the things that I do.

33
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,000
And that seems to be the thing that like I've just stuck with for several years.

34
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,000
Yep.

35
00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:40,000
Yep.

36
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,000
I like it.

37
00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,000
I still am struggling with who I am and what my title is, especially since turning my

38
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,000
business.

39
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,000
I'm like, I do growth.

40
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,000
I do devrel.

41
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,000
Like some people don't know devrel.

42
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,000
It's like, I do things.

43
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,000
Yeah.

44
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,000
Cool.

45
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,000
And I think that's because like developer, speaker, teacher is not necessarily a title.

46
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,500
Like it's, it's a scripture, but if I were to put on LinkedIn, like what am I, I really

47
00:01:57,500 --> 00:02:01,600
struggled with that when I was working for myself and didn't have like a formal role

48
00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,000
that I like knew my title in.

49
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,000
So.

50
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,000
Yep.

51
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,000
That's me.

52
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,400
I just gave myself title CEO with this big dream that it'll be some big monolithic

53
00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,000
thing where a CEO is necessary.

54
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,440
Well, I mean, that's also like just the branding thing.

55
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,500
I think a lot of branding is us choosing how to convey what is there, right?

56
00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:23,200
Like you could, you could say CEO and not really mean it and, and like wish that it was a bigger

57
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:24,800
deal or you could just make it a bigger deal.

58
00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:25,800
You know what I mean?

59
00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,760
Like so much of that, just so much of perception comes from like, what is the, the vibe and

60
00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,520
confidence and details that we give off and we get to, we get to really like influence

61
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,000
what the perception is that people have.

62
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,800
And I talk about this in like, I'm ranting now, but like an interview.

63
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,320
Like if you can't sell your confidence to me, why would I have confidence in you?

64
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:45,320
Right?

65
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,760
Like I'm a new candidate, one of which is like not cocky, but confident.

66
00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,960
And even if it's confident, like I don't know that answer, but I am confident I could figure

67
00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,800
that out given the opportunity.

68
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,480
Like that versus someone that's like, Oh, I just built a thing or I don't know about

69
00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,680
this, blah, blah, like you're going to hire the person who has more confidence in themselves.

70
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,760
And sometimes honestly, you have to fake it.

71
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,280
Like you have to just like practice it.

72
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,160
It's a practice thing, which is interesting too.

73
00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:10,560
But it goes a long way.

74
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:11,560
I agree.

75
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,280
It's funny that you say that because my mantra, my entire career has been fake it to you.

76
00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,040
Make it because I had dropped out of college, like three times college dropout.

77
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:20,040
Right.

78
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,960
So it was like, I always had this level of imposter syndrome, like I'm not educated.

79
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,480
And I was like, whatever, I'm going to fake it till I make it.

80
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,480
And I think I maybe made it.

81
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:28,480
I don't know.

82
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:29,480
I'm somewhere.

83
00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:34,640
And the reality is like, especially after the first couple of years, but especially,

84
00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:38,800
especially after like several more, like college education really doesn't play a factor

85
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:39,800
anymore.

86
00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:40,800
Like I went to, I went to Vanderbilt.

87
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,640
It's the top 20 university in the country.

88
00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:43,640
Boom.

89
00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:44,640
I didn't, I didn't come out.

90
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,200
I could say that, but like that didn't mean anything to me now.

91
00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:48,200
That didn't make me a better developer.

92
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,560
In fact, I studied computer science and I got my ass kicked in interviews coming out

93
00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,880
of college because I treated it like school, not like I was trying to learn something valuable.

94
00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:58,280
So like I did well on test.

95
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,560
I got good grades at a top 20 university, but then I got my ass kicked in like basic

96
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,160
interviews because I didn't really understand programming.

97
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,040
And there are things that like I got introduced to them that I didn't understand until years

98
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,320
later, like from actually writing code and like appreciating and wanting to learn.

99
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:18,680
So like, I don't think that that has a factor very quickly after it, like after graduating

100
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,760
or not graduating, like it just, it doesn't really matter other than initially having

101
00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,960
Vanderbilt on my resume.

102
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,440
Definitely like got some extra visibility.

103
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,040
So there's definitely, definitely benefit to that early on.

104
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:30,040
Yeah.

105
00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:31,040
I would agree with that.

106
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,760
One of my questions is actually to ask you about your education and you just like slid

107
00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,680
right in and delivered that answer.

108
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,760
So I love that.

109
00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,800
I think that's really interesting too, because a part of the show and what I've, you know,

110
00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,600
as I've been talking with different people, I like to ask that question because there

111
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:49,360
is just such a diverse like span of developer education in our ecosystem.

112
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:50,360
Right.

113
00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,040
I think more than anything, we do see a lot of like self taught.

114
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,760
We obviously see a lot of computer science, but we also see a lot of like career transition

115
00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,960
areas, which I think is really interesting as well.

116
00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:00,960
So, oh yeah.

117
00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:06,480
I mean, there's, it's like, it's tougher now just because of the economy and like layoffs

118
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:07,640
are still happening every day.

119
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,600
Like that is a real thing that we have to address, especially with people that are looking to

120
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:12,600
change careers.

121
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,560
Like at a certain point, like two, three years ago, like it was never easier to like go to

122
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,880
a boot camp and then six months later, you've got a job, you've got a totally different

123
00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,160
career and it's not the case right now.

124
00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:23,160
Unfortunately.

125
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,160
And that's because we're continuing to see layoffs.

126
00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,120
So the pool of candidates out there is unfortunately just continuing to grow.

127
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,600
And that's candidates that like have experienced, like let go from roles and then are having

128
00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:37,320
to like sometimes backtrack in terms of level, like take a step down to find their next thing

129
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:38,880
because of just the state of the economy.

130
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,080
So it, like it is very difficult now.

131
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,040
Like if we have that conversation about like, you can go do a career change, you absolutely

132
00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:45,040
can.

133
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,040
It's different than it was two, three years ago.

134
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,240
So I think it's worth like at least kind of bringing that up in the context of, of making

135
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:52,240
those career shifts.

136
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,480
But those are the people honestly that like inspire me.

137
00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,360
Like I think that's the coolest thing that you could possibly do is just like say, I'm,

138
00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,520
I need something more and I'm going to do whatever I need to to actually get there.

139
00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,160
And I think the opportunities are there.

140
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,160
Yeah.

141
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:06,760
I, I love that you said that.

142
00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,600
And I, I fully agree with that.

143
00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:13,040
So I'm originally from Minnesota, live in Texas now, and there was a code school or

144
00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,840
bootcamp in Minneapolis called prime Academy.

145
00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:19,400
And it was, it sort of came out, I think around the time as some of the other bootcamps came

146
00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,320
out, but it's definitely not a franchise version.

147
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,240
So it was just, it's locality only to Minneapolis.

148
00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,200
And they, wow, did they contribute to that ecosystem?

149
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:29,840
There's a lot of like med tech there.

150
00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:32,560
So, you know, health and things like that.

151
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,080
Long story short, they shut down like a week or two ago.

152
00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:40,400
And I'm just like tears because it's just such a, it's just heart like disheartening

153
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,480
to see that of like this beautiful solution to bring somebody into a new career.

154
00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,960
And I mentored many developers that came from that and most of them are career transitioners

155
00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,160
and just, it's really unfortunate.

156
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,680
That's what we're seeing right now.

157
00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:52,680
Yep.

158
00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:53,680
Absolutely.

159
00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,240
Really quickly, just chat wise.

160
00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,560
I haven't been on like my stream channels in a long time.

161
00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,480
Destin and Jordan on Twitch, what's going on?

162
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,240
And then Christoph on, on YouTube.

163
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:05,240
Yeah.

164
00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:06,240
I've been like really quiet.

165
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,520
So I feel like I'm like almost popping out of nowhere, like being, being back on stuff

166
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:10,520
now, Ryan, what's going on?

167
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:16,600
I might get to see Ryan in person in a couple of days in New York City.

168
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,040
If I get to make it out, it's supposed to snow tomorrow and then my flight, so like Saturday

169
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,880
morning and Memphis does not handle snow.

170
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,000
So we'll, we'll see how that goes.

171
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:31,240
Oh, is it an event that y'all are heading to or wow, the chat is just popping now.

172
00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:32,240
Yeah.

173
00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:33,240
Yeah.

174
00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:34,240
So we're going to call it NRF.

175
00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:35,760
It's the big, big marketing event.

176
00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,800
So this is a new area for me and like makes with as a visual builder, it's integrating

177
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:47,000
with a new thing from a big commerce, which is basically like a reference next JS application.

178
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,560
And so you get an extra application that connects to big commerce and you get the visual building

179
00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,360
of that and makes with.

180
00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,360
And so we're going as a huge team.

181
00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,080
It's like 60 people, which is ridiculous.

182
00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:58,920
And it's from a marketing perspective.

183
00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:03,040
So that's going to be like total new, like new experience for me.

184
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:04,040
So we'll see.

185
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:05,040
Yeah.

186
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:06,040
It's interesting.

187
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:07,040
We were just chatting about this.

188
00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,040
I had the chance to speak with their founder over the summer and I, I was really intrigued

189
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:11,040
by their product.

190
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,760
And I also think it's really interesting of sort of the use case because I think, you

191
00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,120
know, in their sort of target market, right?

192
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,920
Of course, like it's developers, but they're buyers.

193
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,040
I felt like we're definitely marketers and in that sort of, you know, marketing team.

194
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:29,440
So it brings, it's always interesting when you're in sort of a dev rel like role, right?

195
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,440
You're like, yes, I talked to the devs, but then it's like, but I'm also hanging out in

196
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,960
these other ecosystems at which my company needs me to be in.

197
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,120
And that's one of like, it's one of the hardest challenges, honestly, is, is thinking through

198
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:42,120
communication.

199
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,120
How do you communicate to both?

200
00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,120
What do you communicate to both?

201
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,320
What do you not communicate to one that you communicate to another?

202
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,720
Cause a visual builder, a person that's using a visual builder, it doesn't care what something's

203
00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,080
called technically behind the scenes.

204
00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:53,760
They just care about being able to build shit, right?

205
00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,960
So it's two very distinct audiences.

206
00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,680
We actually have two separate sets of docs based on that.

207
00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:04,440
And in the leading, to your point, like the leading, the people who are going to make

208
00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,680
decisions to actually buy makes with are going to be the marketing people.

209
00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:12,000
Like nobody, I don't think a developer is looking out there for something they can build with

210
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,480
the XJS to then say, Hey marketing team, this gives you what you need.

211
00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,200
I think it's more good to go the other route where marketers like, Oh, this works really

212
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:19,200
well for me.

213
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:20,600
Now I need a developer in XJS.

214
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,000
I can go in and customize the things that I then have access to, to leverage inside

215
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,000
the building.

216
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,000
Yeah.

217
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,000
Yeah.

218
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,000
It's interesting too.

219
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,600
Like I could see that being like a lot of developer agencies, right?

220
00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,360
Or like, you know, developers who are building for those types of users.

221
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,680
So they understand that there needs to be usable after the fact.

222
00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:36,680
Yeah.

223
00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:37,680
Yeah.

224
00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:38,680
It's really, it's pretty cool.

225
00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:39,680
Yeah.

226
00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:41,180
I like that.

227
00:09:41,180 --> 00:09:42,180
It's been interesting too.

228
00:09:42,180 --> 00:09:46,440
So as I've served a few different clients, like thinking about kind of like tech, right?

229
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,040
And so I had one client who came in and they like absolutely hate it.

230
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,440
And this has actually happened multiple times now that I think about it.

231
00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,480
They hated their website and it was built in like something that was like ridiculous

232
00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:56,680
to like try to support.

233
00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:59,240
It was so painful to create blog posts.

234
00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,920
And it's just interesting to me sort of as we look at in the tech ecosystem, like how

235
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:07,320
difference it is that I was like, y'all built like this beautiful product that does this

236
00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,640
amazing stuff, but like the website, they just can't figure out.

237
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:15,440
And so it's just, it's that idea of like, you know, even though we like things to be

238
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,000
techie, sometimes we just want things to be super simple when it comes down to the thing

239
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,720
that we actually need to just function.

240
00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:21,720
Yeah.

241
00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:26,840
And my experience with like no code, low code is like a lot of stuff is really good.

242
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,600
Every time I've always wanted the ability as a developer to go and build something custom,

243
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,840
like to handle one specific use case.

244
00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,120
And that I think is where like the beauty is here is like developers can have access

245
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:41,440
to touch things, to customize things in a way that makes sense from the marketing visual

246
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:42,440
builder perspective.

247
00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:47,280
So a couple more people in chat, by the way, Roxy on LinkedIn, Roxy said she didn't know

248
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,280
where to look or where to watch.

249
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,760
I know that's everywhere on my channels on LinkedIn.

250
00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,760
And then Ryan has the New York comments on the weather there.

251
00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:01,560
So yeah, we'll see if we get to get to make it up there or if I hope y'all, I hope y'all

252
00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:05,200
do it's done some prayers out to Danny Thompson.

253
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,600
It's like snowing in Dallas, but Waco has avoided it.

254
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,080
We got, we got like ice rain for like five minutes at around 7am.

255
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:14,080
It was creepy.

256
00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,080
Yeah.

257
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:16,080
And then it stopped.

258
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,080
So I think the weather's just weird everywhere.

259
00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:18,080
And then LA fires.

260
00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,600
I don't know, things are strange.

261
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:26,720
Yeah, that's like, it's still crazy to me that like as intelligent and developed as

262
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,760
a society are, like when weather hits, we can't do anything about it.

263
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:34,000
Like we can't, we can't stop the impact of weather, whether it be hurricanes, tornadoes,

264
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,200
fire, like just heavy rain, flooding, like we just, there's like legitimately almost

265
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:39,200
nothing we could do.

266
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,560
And that's mind boggling to me, but the fire stuff looks terrifying.

267
00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:44,560
Very terrifying.

268
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:48,840
I actually had tweeted about this this morning too, because there's like tons of people from

269
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,200
Snapchat and it's getting really close to Snapchat's like HQ office over there.

270
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,080
And I'm like, oh, it's just all around.

271
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,880
And then like, yeah, to just like know what's coming to you.

272
00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:05,520
It's one of those things of like, I feel like in society we are, we are like, we want this

273
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:06,520
instant gratification.

274
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,120
Like we want to fix anything that's wrong.

275
00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:09,920
We want to address anything that's around.

276
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,560
Like we just, we get on top of it.

277
00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:12,560
We have social media.

278
00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:13,560
Everything's handed to us.

279
00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:17,080
And I think weather is just one of those things that sort of like re-levels us, right?

280
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,560
Cause we're like, okay, we can't control everything and this is just something we have to sit and

281
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:21,560
wait out.

282
00:12:21,560 --> 00:12:22,560
Yeah.

283
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:28,040
And that's for, especially for people that are used to solving problems that is definitely

284
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:29,040
a challenge.

285
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:30,040
I love it.

286
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,560
Everyone's having a little heyday over where they're going to watch and chat with one another.

287
00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:34,560
I know.

288
00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:35,560
Yeah, they're all, they're all bouncing around.

289
00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:36,560
Andre Snack, once that's me, amigo.

290
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,560
I think they're all going to YouTube.

291
00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:39,560
It looks like.

292
00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:40,560
Yeah.

293
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:41,560
Yeah, we'll see.

294
00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:42,560
I love it.

295
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:43,560
I think it is Richard.

296
00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:44,560
Is that right?

297
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:45,560
Yes.

298
00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:46,560
Yes, it is.

299
00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:47,560
Yep.

300
00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:48,560
Hey, Richard.

301
00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:49,560
Yeah.

302
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:50,560
All right.

303
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:51,560
Well, let's get into it a little bit.

304
00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:53,560
We've been sort of chatting about my normal questions, but you know, you and I know each other.

305
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:55,560
So it's fun to just kind of chat and catch up.

306
00:12:55,560 --> 00:13:00,560
But we alluded to it a little bit, but I would love to hear about what you do more in your

307
00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:05,560
role and things that you face as like challenges, what kind of your day to day looks like.

308
00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:06,560
Yeah.

309
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:08,560
Anything you want to share in that regard?

310
00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:09,560
Yeah.

311
00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:11,560
Maybe probably as people expect.

312
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:15,560
So my role is head of developer experience, which again is interesting considering like

313
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:18,560
there's a developer aspect of this, but a lot of the stuff I've been doing is like from

314
00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:22,560
a marketer background experience perspective as well.

315
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:23,560
Yep.

316
00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:28,560
So we big commerce launched something called Catalyst about a year ago, I think, and it's

317
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:32,560
basically a reference architecture next to application that integrates with big commerce

318
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:33,560
APIs.

319
00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:36,560
And you just give that to people and they start like building their e-commerce platform with

320
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,560
that's cool.

321
00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:43,560
The new iteration and what we're going to like really show is ready next week or like

322
00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:49,560
Saturday, Sunday at NRF, no big deal, is all of that, but then integrated into makeswift.

323
00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:54,560
So if you think about like, I have a next JS project that integrates with APIs from big

324
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:59,560
commerce, then there's a lot of work that built custom components inside of the source

325
00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:05,560
code that integrates with makeswift, which allows me then to drag and drop header components,

326
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:07,560
footer components, slide show components.

327
00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:11,560
And the developers get to customize like what are all the individual properties for all

328
00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:16,560
those components that the person using the visual builder gets to fill out or not, right?

329
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:20,560
So the developer gets choices over like, what do we let them have access to versus what

330
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,560
do we not because like they don't need to or like it's dangerous if they do, they could

331
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,560
make something anyway.

332
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:26,560
Yeah.

333
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:27,560
So very, very cool, interesting balance.

334
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:35,560
There's been a lot of work getting this ready to like start sharing tomorrow or Sunday whenever.

335
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,560
So a lot of things I've been doing a lot of documentation work.

336
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:44,560
They, again, there's product docs and there's developer docs, there's new APIs that we've

337
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,560
introduced.

338
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,560
There's updates to existing controls, there's new controls that we've added.

339
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,560
So there's a lot there and talked about this, I think before we were live of like that stuff

340
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,560
has been moving super fast.

341
00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,560
So even just like knowing a thing is out there, docking that like writing docs around it is

342
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,560
not easy because it could change, but one of the cool things about that too, from a developer

343
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,560
experience perspective is as they're like coming up with new APIs or like thinking through

344
00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:14,560
them, I get to be a part of that and say like, oh, I actually like, I would rather it be

345
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,560
this way for this reason or like, oh, that makes sense.

346
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:18,560
It's just so good.

347
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,560
Like as an engineer, it like you have it, you have a job and you do it and it's kind of

348
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,560
easy to lose the like outside perspective of what it's like to use the thing that you're

349
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:27,560
building.

350
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,560
And so I come in and I've gotten to really play.

351
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:34,560
I think like a pretty big role in shaping that and I think have earned respect enough

352
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,560
for like when there's ideas out there, like, oh, let's get James to like run through this,

353
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,560
like see what he thinks, et cetera.

354
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,560
So that I think that's been a big part of it as well.

355
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,560
And again, like excited to kind of be a part of shaping that.

356
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,560
The other thing is and what a lot of people know me for is content and I haven't done a lot of

357
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:56,560
like public facing content, but I have done a lot of internal videos, like showing some of the

358
00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,560
things we built, explainer things, some scripts, like some other stuff.

359
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:07,560
So there's a lot of like working with the education team that does docs on the BC side.

360
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,560
They also do internal trainings.

361
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,560
They also have internal content that people can use to ramp up.

362
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,560
So being involved in like kind of going through that and making sure it makes sense when they talk

363
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,560
about makes with other things that are that are relevant to what we do.

364
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:25,560
So again, like the danger of developer experience docs, API feedback, testing,

365
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,560
things out, finding bugs.

366
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:33,560
It's not as much public facing developer experience like getting feedback yet because this is going to be kind of

367
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,560
a real big opportunity to leverage the big commerce audience to kind of grow that.

368
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,560
And that's going to be a big thing for us is like taking that feedback and continue to iterate on the product

369
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,560
based on what people are using, seeing, needing, what doesn't work, et cetera.

370
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:52,560
And then another big focus for us is going to be more content this year as we're a little less deadline driven

371
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:58,560
and more like future open to like looking towards the future things that are going to help us out longer term.

372
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,560
That was a lot of words.

373
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,560
No, that's that was great though.

374
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,560
Like it was a lot of words, but it was great.

375
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:06,560
Like it was beautiful words.

376
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,560
That's really interesting because it sounds a lot like, you know, what I did over at snap, right?

377
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:15,560
It's like same thing backed by big company with money public, right?

378
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:21,560
But inside of that, we were very much this like tiny little startup that was trying to push augmented reality into

379
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:22,560
the ecosystem.

380
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,560
And so our users were businesses.

381
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,560
Honestly, I spent tons of time in enterprise more than anything.

382
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,560
So it was very different from where I am today.

383
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:30,560
Oh, Clark.

384
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:31,560
Hey, Clark.

385
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:37,560
But I focused, I think the first full year was focused on developer experience.

386
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,560
We had the consumer support team was answering developer support questions.

387
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:48,560
So I was like, oh, okay, we got a deflect support at all costs and heavily focused on that.

388
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:49,560
So it sounds very similar.

389
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,560
Honestly, it's a really, yeah.

390
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:58,560
It's another challenge we have is like a lot of support is not strictly technical, like from a developer perspective.

391
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:04,560
And also we're finding with like customers as well as internally, like the depth of knowledge in next year.

392
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:13,560
Even if you are like have some developer experience, like you got to be pretty well versed in next year to not just like break something and and understand why.

393
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:19,560
Like it's so easy to change something that you don't quite get, not understanding the impact of doing that.

394
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,560
And so that's the challenge to we also have like the challenge of like reporting bugs.

395
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,560
Like we say, like, hey, can you tell us what's going on?

396
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,560
And it's like very vague answer.

397
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:32,560
No, like links to PRs are like the details that you need to be able to debug that stuff.

398
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,560
So some of it's like us having to enforce those rules.

399
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:40,560
And then some of it's having to maybe like change the templates that were required, like the details we need, etc.

400
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:46,560
To make that process go as smoothly as possible and to limit the amount of like actual engineering time on our end.

401
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:51,560
That's helping debug stuff that like doesn't need to be done debugged by our engineering teams.

402
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:59,560
Yeah, gosh, it's hard to because I like I feel like there should just be this like answer of like, like I've wanted to create a benchmark right where it's like,

403
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:05,560
if these are the struggles that we're seeing, then like this is where we need to invest and it's just this cycle that you keep going.

404
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,560
But the problem is, is that in this space, man, shashi, like look at the great people up in the world.

405
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,560
Just bring James on the show.

406
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:21,560
Well, I mean, we talked about this like kind of my plan is to do this more often because I've wanted to like, like I've been in general the majority of my career and I like,

407
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:31,560
to be quite honest, like I'm probably pretty up there in terms of years of experience because at that point when I started jet like it was technical evangelism at the time,

408
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:41,560
but I feel like it's evolved so much in 10 years and like now it's become or in the last few years like become a hotter, more exciting thing probably because they saw people like traveling across the world to speak at conferences,

409
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,560
which is part of what you do.

410
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:51,560
Anyway, so yeah, I like it. Yeah, but it is a part and it can can be fun can be overwhelming can be all the things.

411
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,560
The point of all that.

412
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,560
You're in but yeah.

413
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,560
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

414
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:07,560
The point of all that is like I've been wanting to kind of build more of a public brand around like my experience and developer education relations experience, etc.

415
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:14,560
And so I figured since you already doing a bunch of good stuff that I could maybe double dip and just like contribute to the stuff that you're doing so we'll see.

416
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:15,560
Absolutely.

417
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:25,560
To speak to what he's referring to you as well, like with a built for devs which by the way Clark I'm wearing my that conference shirt today you just can't tell because my hair is covering it up.

418
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:35,560
But what I'm doing over there is obviously like I'm a community builder like we are both community builders like we bring developers together and that's the essence of what we love to do.

419
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:42,560
And so the built for dev hub is actually at hub dot built for devs which you can see in the annoying little ticker that's at the bottom.

420
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:52,560
But the beautiful thing about it is it's a platform called gradual and you can actually host like full fledged conferences in person with badges and ticket like a printer integration.

421
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,560
I don't know how in person stuff. Yeah, dude, it's bananas.

422
00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:13,560
And so I have this plot. Yeah, I had this platform that was like gifted to me from the gradual team because they know that I work with DevRel teams and so the installment there of hey do you need a new developer platform, which if anyone is checked it out like I don't even have it built out to the level that it could be but it is so freaking cool.

423
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:21,560
So if anyone wants to dig into gradual you're building a community James maybe one day you need the community to make shift you hit me up and we can talk about it but.

424
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:30,560
Question for you on the like support stuff have you tried like office hours or does makeshift have like a developer community yet.

425
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:48,560
Discord or otherwise. Yeah, that's one of the things that will it's always so hard with like a really small team because like every I think it's easy to have those ideas of like yeah we should we should have a discord or slack or whatever and the reality is like to do those things and do them well you have to have like really dedicated

426
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:54,560
to that and I don't think that we're there like we actually have a channel inside of BC slack.

427
00:21:54,560 --> 00:22:01,560
Yeah, it's not super active, but we have that and so I will always be like more hesitant to add something new.

428
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:13,560
If I'm not really confident that like we have the resources and the prioritization to be able to do that thing the right way because the worst case is like you bring a bunch of people in and they ask for help and then you're not responsive to the place that you told them to go in the first

429
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:18,560
so we don't have a lot of that again this is like.

430
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:25,560
What it'll be really interesting year as we like a lot more people using us through big commerce.

431
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:35,560
We get to really build our product and like roadmap I think around that and and figure out what like community ecosystem and stuff looks like with that.

432
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,560
Yep, really quickly just because I feel bad like missing comments.

433
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:44,560
Go ahead, shout out anyway, Joseph said love your videos and content. Thank you. I appreciate it.

434
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,560
Clark, good to see you. Hunter. Hello, Mark Huggins.

435
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,560
I haven't seen a long time. I feel like I haven't seen everyone because I haven't been doing the source stuff.

436
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:58,560
So thanks for like dragging me out of my dungeon to be live and public with people.

437
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:09,560
I had to get drug out of my dungeon which is when speaking to what you said earlier when you were talking about people having to pivot and sort of adjust because it's the ecosystem of where we're at and having to almost go backwards.

438
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:15,560
I think that that's actually the place where I knew that that was the place where I was going to be at when things happened at Snap.

439
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:21,560
I knew there was going to be a layoff eventually and so in my head I knew going self employed was the path.

440
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,560
And so I was like going with that good grief. There's a reason why I was saying that.

441
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,560
And for that, like where you starting to... I wish that would have been super smart.

442
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:39,560
That's what like general advice for people is like don't like don't think you're just going to go out there and do your own thing and it's going to be super easy.

443
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:52,560
But like if you're if you're starting to build something for yourself, whether it's just being active on LinkedIn, making connections that way, you start to go to meetups to start to build your network or you start to finally write that blog post that you've been thinking about.

444
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,560
Or you like start to think about doing consulting and start to build it up or like whatever those things are.

445
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:03,560
Start doing them now because you never know when that might be the thing that you like kind of have to lean on.

446
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:09,560
And I've been in that situation. I went full time with content because I got like go from PlanetScale to a half year or whatever.

447
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,560
And those two years, like that's one of my biggest accomplishments in my career ever is being able to work for myself.

448
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,560
Like there's nothing cooler. I'm at a different point now like mentally.

449
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,560
Like there's different things I'm looking for and there's different challenges.

450
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,560
But to look back and say that I was able to do that, which is what you're doing now.

451
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:32,560
Like that's one of the coolest stories that you can ever tell, especially if it's in a situation where like, oh, now I need something like I need to have this thing because I just got like, oh, or something changed.

452
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,560
Yep. Yep. I absolutely agree.

453
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,560
Okay, so tiny little like tip for you because I agree with Discord.

454
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,560
And that's why I asked because oftentimes there's these different developer products, right?

455
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,560
And they created Discord server and then it's like crickets.

456
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,560
The thing that really worked well for us was actually launching office hours and we did them weekly.

457
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,560
And so it started to create like a crew of like, you know, just a good handful of developers.

458
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,560
It was, you know, 20, 30, 40 summer in that range.

459
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,560
And then they seeded the community.

460
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:04,560
And so we went community forum instead of Discord because it's locked behind a login wall.

461
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,560
So then we elevated developers to start answering questions instead.

462
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:13,560
So as you work through your journey, yeah, that's because literally it sounds like it's a play by play of my role at Snap.

463
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,560
And in the beginning it was like, okay, developer experience, all the things, where are the gaps?

464
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,560
And then it was like, okay, now how do we start helping people?

465
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,560
Man, there is just people in here like crazy. I love this.

466
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:23,560
What's up, Flemau?

467
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,560
Hey, if anyone has questions for James, throw them in the chat and we'll bring them up.

468
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,560
So next question I'm going to ask and also let kind of people throw that out there.

469
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:36,560
This is one of the last questions that I asked, but I figure your amazing viewers in the chat will probably bring in some more.

470
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,560
So I'm going to ask now and then we can just, you know, take this where it goes.

471
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:52,560
When you are stuck, whether it be in your developer experience role, whether it be out externally, you're building something, what is kind of your like hierarchy of let me, what do I need to do to get unstuck?

472
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:58,560
Getting someone else to look at the thing, I think is like a huge one.

473
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:06,560
I think there's a lot of, Dustin, there's people on, yeah, there's people all over the place, LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitch, sorry, we're kind of calling out people on different platforms and not specifying.

474
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,560
So yes, there's people everywhere.

475
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:17,560
There's so many things in docs. Docs is not my natural thing. I'm not naturally a writer. I do video content because I find that a lot easier than writing, et cetera.

476
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:23,560
I find I have a lot of challenges like how do I word this? How do I make this a call out? Do I not make it a call out?

477
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,560
Like the annoying things of like, do we specifically capitalize this type thing versus not?

478
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:34,560
And those, they kind of overwhelm me a lot and that's a lot of what send docs, unfortunately.

479
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:40,560
And so I have conversations back and forth with several different people at all times of like, oh, would you do this or that?

480
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:46,560
And one suggestion to people if you're looking for feedback on stuff, like a lot of what happens is like, hey, I built a new page.

481
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,560
What feedback do you have? And then you don't hear anything.

482
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:56,560
And the reason is because people, it's overwhelming for people to look at something that they're not intimately familiar with and know what to give feedback on.

483
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:05,560
And so a better way to do that is say, hey, I'm looking for feedback specifically on X, Y and Z and or give them two different options.

484
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,560
People will happily tell you like what they choose between A and B because that's that's simple, right?

485
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,560
Like spot check A, spot check B, like that's the thing that I prefer.

486
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:19,560
So a lot of it, I think any of those situations is just feedback and trying to make that like a broader conversation.

487
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,560
Because I can spend a lot of time just like being overwhelmed like, I don't know how to write this section and then stop.

488
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,560
But otherwise, I just pretty quickly like, I'll write something and it's not the best.

489
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,560
And then I'll just send it out and say like looking for feedback on this.

490
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,560
This thing, how would you do this? Would you choose this?

491
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,560
And then use that as a way to iterate.

492
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,560
Yeah, I like that.

493
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:43,560
Is there anything else that you do if it's something maybe that others can't provide feedback on?

494
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,560
Oh, that actually that's probably always the case.

495
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:47,560
Is there any other backups?

496
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,560
Basically is what I was going to ask any other tricks or tips that you could share?

497
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,560
Yeah, I'm trying to think about like situations that I've had recently.

498
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,560
I guess like another example is going to do research on other platforms.

499
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,560
Right? Like the challenges that I solve are not unique challenges.

500
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:09,560
I mean, like maybe to a certain extent, but like other companies, other people in similar positions have have solved them as well.

501
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,560
So I find myself again, talking about docs, going and looking like other people's docs.

502
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,560
How do they lay it out? How do they do callouts for X, Y and Z that sort of stuff?

503
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,560
So I think that's a big one is just being able to do comparison.

504
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:30,560
And then the other other thing I guess is like, especially from a docs perspective, this is all about docs so far, but it's taking a step back and really, yeah,

505
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,560
taking a step back and following the docs from scratch.

506
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,560
I think it's something we often don't do.

507
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:40,560
And it's, I have a couple of things that I need to go back and do this for that is about to get launched to make sure everything looks good.

508
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:45,560
Like starting from scratch and making sure the whole thing is like, makes sense together, actually works the way like follow this.

509
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,560
That's what you're telling other people to do to make sure that it actually does what it's supposed to.

510
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:57,560
Yeah, I think one interesting thing too with docs is like, it's all about sort of the understanding who that end user is, right?

511
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,560
And if you don't understand who that end user is from a tech, like a technical scope, right?

512
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,560
Are they junior? Are they mid level? Are they super experienced? Is this a new technology?

513
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,560
Is this a new language? And it really brings a lot into it.

514
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:14,560
And I feel like the more that coming back to your feedback comment, right, the more that you can actually get it in the hands of somebody else and be like,

515
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,560
Hey, can you go try this? Like, does this getting started guide work for you? Like, where does this land you?

516
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,560
You know, and yeah, I think that that's key.

517
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,560
All right. Do we have any questions over there? Just a lot of people freaking out because I haven't seen James for a while and we've all dug him out of the code.

518
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,560
But you came back. Yeah.

519
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,560
I remember why what I was going to, I remember what I was going to say with my silly business.

520
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:43,560
Wow, totally like tired morning is this is that I spent just over two years at Snap and I felt like I just disconnected from everybody because I was so in the weeds of my role.

521
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:49,560
And I wasn't necessarily focused on growth towards till the year or the latter part of right before I got laid off.

522
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,560
And then that year was like hit the ground running with growth.

523
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,560
And so it's, I love to see this. This is beautiful.

524
00:29:54,560 --> 00:30:05,560
I feel like I'm doing the same thing of like coming out and reacquainting myself with humans because most of my audience wasn't in AR and honestly, like, you know, it's totally different ecosystem.

525
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,560
All right. Any good questions you saw in the chat?

526
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:17,560
Other than coming back, someone or a hundred commented on Astro having talking and docking sessions to get feedback on documentation.

527
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,560
That's like smart.

528
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:25,560
That's such a good, like, I don't think we have the public community yet for people to really care what I would be doing in that case.

529
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,560
Like that's the kind of thing that I think can build.

530
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,560
And I think there's opportunities around that.

531
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:38,560
But anything kind of learning in public, I feel like is all way like most of the time beneficial just to get other people's takes to get other people's ideas immediately to like balance.

532
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:45,560
Ideas off of other people and anything where you're building branding reputation in the community is always a benefit.

533
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:52,560
And even though I haven't been as active and like creating content recently, like I'm still still doing things like this that come up.

534
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:59,560
Like I still am in being a part of the community connecting with people that I like haven't known that do know like to reconnect still doing some in person stuff.

535
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:06,560
And I think the relationship someone had this quote in college relationship management is the key to success.

536
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:17,560
And like, I don't think I hate the idea of networking from like a cold sterile the way it sounds perspective, but like networking and relationship management is absolutely the key to success.

537
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,560
Like maintaining and or building continue to build new relationships is huge.

538
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,560
And you never know when you need that connection.

539
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:32,560
You never know, like, don't do it selfishly, but you never know what's going to come out of like anybody that you meet that you connect with that you have like overlapping interests and experience with.

540
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,560
So, yep, I fully agree.

541
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:43,560
All right, so before we get towards wrapping up, although I feel like everyone in the chat will be sad about that they've they get their James time now.

542
00:31:43,560 --> 00:32:02,560
What is your tool stack look like and I know this kind of changes based on what you're building and what you're doing but oftentimes audience and listeners really like to hear about like the new tools and tricks and hey how are you doing shortcuts and things so do you have any any tools you really love that just absolutely live inside of your toolbox tools.

543
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,560
And warp is a favorite of mine.

544
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:19,560
It's like, it's a terminal the one thing I wish like I'm so much waiting on this is I use built in terminal and VS code so I can see my logs and like starting different processes and stuff right inside of my editor, I run everything in full screen so I swipe between them.

545
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:28,560
And warp does not integrate directly into VS code which is like the one downside that I'm really waiting on like I think they'll get there.

546
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:38,560
But warp is super cool they've got like AI and like snippets and like all sorts of stuff that I built on the product including like working with a team and other cool stuff.

547
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:54,560
Raycast is huge. There's so many separate tools that I've used to do different things there's like, there's like a tool I've had to organize I think it was magnet to organize windows on my thing there's like I used to use text expand or for snippets I used to use something else for something else.

548
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,560
All those things Raycast can do they have integrations with like so many things.

549
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:06,560
Raycast is super super cool so it's a spotlight replacement on Mac and it does so many things you can customize the crap out of it super super cool.

550
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,560
Love that flow just mentioned that.

551
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,560
Was it yesterday no two two shows ago so definitely check out recast.

552
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,560
Yes, super cool.

553
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,560
I don't know what else is like.

554
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,560
Those are the two big ones that I think about right now.

555
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:29,560
I know that's what I think about that too and I actually installed warp.

556
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:45,560
As we were talking about in the pre show right we were talking about how I have been disconnected and I actually hadn't even been coding really because I was more living in docs and doing other things and there's some coding with that but it's different than actually building projects right it's more like can I get this getting started guide to function and then after that you like go build you know.

557
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:59,560
Anyways, so I installed warp and I actually like stopped using it because I was like wait a minute only because it does have the AI goodness where like you can just type whatever you want and it'll it'll just prompt it for you and figure out what the command is and I was like nope.

558
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,560
I have to read read get my wheels and get back to do it right.

559
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:11,560
Yes, exactly and then I was like but then I'm going back to work because it is really cool so you just need to get back to the basics.

560
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,560
Alright, anything else that you want to share with with folks that are listening.

561
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:17,560
I don't know where.

562
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:22,560
What was the date we settled on we're scheduling another live string.

563
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,560
I don't know I don't think it's like public because I haven't gotten you all the details but I think it's January 30th.

564
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:36,560
So we'll have some information come out about that and have a few different people from different like areas of Deverall and just kind of have have a chat about it.

565
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,560
So something people can look forward to.

566
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:45,560
Perfect, I made it public just in case people want to go register right now but the details are not in the event.

567
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:52,560
It's also lacking a beautiful pretty image I will throw it in this in the chat for those that will see it on Twitch and YouTube.

568
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:57,560
So I did just publish that really quickly but yes more details to come on that super excited about that event.

569
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:05,560
Like James said earlier I think it's it's cool to be able to bring some of these Deverall sort of energies together and be able to talk about them so.

570
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,560
Oh Clark moved to ghostly.org last night.

571
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,560
What is that ghosty.org.

572
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,560
Okay, look I can show.

573
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:18,560
I did not.

574
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,560
Oh yeah nice.

575
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,560
Flemall asked about doing Wednesday the week on the Fridays and discord.

576
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:33,560
I'll be honest discord has been a big challenge for me mentally last like several months and if you're asking you probably noticed that I like haven't been involved at all.

577
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:41,560
It's like I realized especially after having my daughter Jamie who's now a year and a half she's a handful she's amazing.

578
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:54,560
That just my mental capacity to do so many different things especially now that I have a full time role is I just I just only have so much and discord has been a really big struggle so I'm honestly unsure of what that means for the learn build teach discord right now.

579
00:35:54,560 --> 00:36:11,560
Which makes me really sad but I kind of have to prioritize the things that I have capacity to do and I think that was a realization that I came to have like I need to cut back on several things and discord at least for the last several months has been something I've cut back on significantly so I don't know what that means unfortunately.

580
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:18,560
I love the idea of Wednesday the week I think that's one of the coolest things that we can do is just encourage people to reflect positively.

581
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:24,560
Like a lot of people finish the week and they're like oh I didn't do this I didn't do this I didn't do that and we forget to appreciate the work that we did do.

582
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,560
So I think the idea of Wednesday the week is huge.

583
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:38,560
I don't know when I'll have like the mental capacity to formally bring that back maybe it's something we could tie into like stuff that I do here and kind of overlap.

584
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:39,560
So we'll see.

585
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:40,560
Yes.

586
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:45,560
James is a human yes.

587
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:54,560
It's true though and I think it's it's really interesting I think these devrel opportunity is like you do get to connect with developers more and be out in the community.

588
00:36:54,560 --> 00:37:05,560
But it's very much the developers that suit your company and so whatever you have sort of in your personal network and things that you know you're driving in those relationships it becomes hard like I completely understand.

589
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:06,560
Yeah.

590
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,560
Also flimosa that he just became a dad as well.

591
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:11,560
Congratulations.

592
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:12,560
That's exciting.

593
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:18,560
No I have baby fever even though I have four kids and my toddler is so naughty.

594
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:30,560
I have them from 16 to two but there are no more children that will be in my future but man this new life and I don't know it's just such a beautiful thing.

595
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,560
Jamie's pretty wild too.

596
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:33,560
Yeah.

597
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:34,560
Yeah.

598
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:35,560
Yeah.

599
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,560
Is she a runner or is she like a runner?

600
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,560
Oh all of it.

601
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,560
She's not going on anything.

602
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:43,560
Yeah.

603
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,560
Very like physically focused like climbing running.

604
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:49,560
Yeah.

605
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:50,560
Interesting.

606
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:51,560
You know what's interesting about that.

607
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,560
I have three boys and one girl and my girl was nothing like that.

608
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:59,560
She was just delicate a little flower like the sweet and didn't really want to do that.

609
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,560
All three of the boys were just insane like literally they get hang off the chandeliers.

610
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:05,560
Yeah.

611
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:06,560
They'd be hanging on.

612
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,560
So two of our best friends who live here have four kids and I remember one of them was a

613
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:16,560
number one of their seeing one of their kids that was like two at the time climb on to the changing table like by himself.

614
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,560
I'm like what is happening like mind blown.

615
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,560
I'm like how like that shouldn't ever happen.

616
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,560
And now Jamie does it.

617
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:24,560
She climbs up there by herself.

618
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,560
I'm like what the hell.

619
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:27,560
Yeah.

620
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:38,560
Dude the amount of things that we had to do for like little life hacks that people probably judge us for his bananas like we have to lock our child in his room like we lock his door when he goes to bed because otherwise like he will come out and he can do the same thing like he can

621
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,560
climb up and counters he could get into the fridge.

622
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:46,560
He could get into the stove or the laundry room or whatever you know it's really wild to think about.

623
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:56,560
Really really is not sure who geek is but I assume they're local because they're talking about weather and here in the 901 which is Memphis.

624
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,560
Yes I just don't recognize the name.

625
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,560
Let me know.

626
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:01,560
Oh boy it was easy daughter.

627
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:02,560
Not so much.

628
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:03,560
Yeah.

629
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:15,560
So we're we're supposed to get four to eight I think is the most recent estimate of snow which like you're in Texas so I'm sure you also don't have many resources where you live to support snow which we definitely do not.

630
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,560
So we'll see what that looks like for for flights on Saturday.

631
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:19,560
Yeah goodness.

632
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:27,560
I mean I'm from Minnesota so I definitely know what snow is but like you're you can like handle it there right we've got all the tactics and the needs and all the things.

633
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:33,560
I think we legitimately have one snowplow I think is what I've heard or like maybe two for the entire city.

634
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:34,560
So yeah.

635
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,560
Oh yeah y'all are staying inside till the snow melts.

636
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:37,560
Yeah.

637
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,560
Yeah exactly.

638
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:40,560
Oh man.

639
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,560
All right well this has been a fabulous conversation.

640
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:53,560
Obviously we need to do more events together or with you you bring the you bring the dev crew along with you which really speaks to just all of your awesome work.

641
00:39:53,560 --> 00:40:06,560
And I respect you so much and just really adore like the things that you do and the beautifulness that you bring into the community and you're always instilling like such great like energies of kindness and I think it's it's really powerful so I appreciate that.

642
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:07,560
Yeah.

643
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,560
Well right back at you wouldn't be here if it wasn't the same.

644
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,560
Stony on Twitter hello and Kevin Yancy.

645
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:14,560
Hi.

646
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:15,560
Now I know who you are.

647
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:16,560
Yeah.

648
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:23,560
I always say like the difference between like real names and screen names and not having any idea who people are based on like user names sometimes.

649
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:24,560
Yep.

650
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:25,560
You got to figure it out.

651
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:37,560
You know what's really a bummer about that is when you spend a great deal of time hanging out with a like a crew of developers like maybe for a role or maybe because it's a personal community you want to be into and then you come back and it's like oh my gosh I should know who that person is.

652
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,560
I used to know what that username was.

653
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:40,560
You just lose it over time.

654
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:47,560
Especially on like live streaming especially because you get you get used to it right because they tell you once and then you don't do it for six months and it's like oh shoot.

655
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:48,560
Yep.

656
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:49,560
Yes.

657
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:50,560
Yes.

658
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:51,560
Exactly.

659
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:52,560
Exactly.

660
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:53,560
All right.

661
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:54,560
Well where can folks find you.

662
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:55,560
I do publish this on the podcast too.

663
00:40:55,560 --> 00:41:00,560
So for the audio version where can folks find the awesome James quick.

664
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:01,560
Yeah.

665
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:02,560
James Q.

666
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,560
Quick on most things.

667
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:11,560
Twitter, YouTube and James Q.

668
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:12,560
Quick.com website.

669
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:13,560
Love it.

670
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:14,560
Love it.

671
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:15,560
Check out makeswift.

672
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:16,560
So he's hanging out these days.

673
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:17,560
Share your feedback if you have it.

674
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,560
And this has been an absolute fabulous conversation.

675
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,560
Any parting words for your amazing viewers in the chat.

676
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,560
Go out there and build stuff.

677
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,560
That's why I like that's why we write code.

678
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,560
That's why I write code is it's just fun to build stuff.

679
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:31,560
So go do it.

680
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,560
It is fun to solve problems.

681
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:34,560
That's my.

682
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:35,560
Yep.

683
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:36,560
All right.

684
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:37,560
All right.

685
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,560
Well I'm signing off everyone's been great to see all you in the chat.

686
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,560
Have a lovely rest of your day.

687
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:44,560
See y'all.

688
00:41:44,560 --> 00:42:03,560
.