1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,400 Hello, hello. What a lovely morning for me and a lovely morning for my dear friend Joe 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:14,520 as well here. Maybe not morning for all of you, but I'm so excited to catch up with Joe. 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,760 He is a dear friend of mine and we do not get the opportunity to hang out as much as 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,240 I personally would really like. So Joe, I would love for you to introduce yourself. 5 00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:32,360 Hey, Tessa, glad to be here. My name is Joe Casabona. I am a systems and automations coach. 6 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:38,680 That's my like super secret power is being able to over engineer automations. And that 7 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:44,000 is yeah, that is due to my background in software engineering. So I feel like that whole thing 8 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:49,600 has given me the perspective of what I do today or has helped me in what I do today. 9 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:54,880 I guess I should say yeah, I love that. Okay, so selfishly, I want to catch up. I want to 10 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,600 hear how life has been. I think that some of the viewers may, you know, just enjoy some 11 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,520 of our personal catch up, but I would love to hear how your Christmas was and how, you 12 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,520 know, just generally holidays have been because we haven't chatted since then. 13 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:12,680 Yeah, Christmas was really good. I just sent you a picture of something we got our kids 14 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:18,320 for Christmas that I think you'll appreciate given that you know my predisposition to this 15 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:29,600 thing. Oh, no. Oh, y'all, I'm looking at the cutest little puppy. Oh, Joe, I'm so proud 16 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:39,200 of you. This, this is a true dad moment of like your children before yourself. Oh, okay, 17 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,920 tell the listeners why, why this is such a big deal. 18 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,200 Thank you. I, I appreciate that. I like I in the excitement, I unplugged my headphones. 19 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:53,880 I'm like, oh man, I hope I get these plugged back in before she stops talking. Yeah, so 20 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:58,400 I appreciate that you recognize this for those for most people watching or listening, they 21 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:07,360 probably don't know, but I am not an animal person. I'm not a dog person. And we I'm also 22 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:12,640 allergic to dogs. So we got we got our kids a puppy for Christmas. His name is Bandit 23 00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:22,160 and he's like a Yorkie something mix. He he's a rare puppy, hypoallergenic rescue from the 24 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:30,600 SPCA. Oh, yeah, so like it's super worked out. He had like a brother. They were strays. 25 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:36,280 I like, okay, so I'm not a dog person, but I'm also not a monster. And I'm like, how, 26 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:41,520 how is a two and a half month old puppy like a stray dog in the winter in the Northeast? 27 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:48,560 Um, but their stray hold was up the day we went to the SPCA. And his brother had went 28 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:56,240 like already got adopted. So, uh, yeah, so it like super worked out. He's a, you know, 29 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:04,760 he's fine. My kids love him. My kids let my wife is happy. And so when my family is happy, 30 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:11,240 I'm happy. But I thought I feel like you, I really thought I know we're on a tangent 31 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:18,560 right now, but I didn't realize how many people knew I didn't like dogs. I knew you didn't 32 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:27,320 because we talk about it a lot, but like everybody I've talked to is like, wow, you got a dog. 33 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:34,000 And I'm like, well, my, my family, it's like grudging acquiescence for me. I want my, but 34 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,480 they've been at like my youngest, Abby is three years old. And when we asked her what 35 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:43,080 she wanted for Christmas, she said a dog. And we've been like, like when we were in 36 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:49,480 Cabo, they did like an SPCA like skip shelter, skip day. Yep. And so I'm like, so I'm like, 37 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:57,880 yeah, wait till I'm out of the country to rent a dog or whatever. So anyway, we, it, 38 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,800 it all worked out and they were, we, we gave him to the kids on Christmas. They were very 39 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:08,600 happy. So my oldest said, I can't dad, I can't believe you let this happen. So yeah, all 40 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:09,600 good things. Yeah. 41 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:15,800 Teresa. Yes. Beautiful comment to come out of her mouth. I love that. Yes. Yes. Yeah. 42 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,120 She's like my clone and I really like that. 43 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:24,080 I have one of those too. And I really like it. So, okay. So the, my heart, it like feels 44 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,360 like they grinch this like ready to explode not because it's bigger, but because I'm just 45 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:32,120 so excited because y'all like Joe and I have been such good friends and I absolutely adore 46 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:38,480 him, like adore him. But the one thing that I was like, Joe, you're just, you're not like 47 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:45,720 perfect because he doesn't like animals. And I'm like, who doesn't like animals? But you 48 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,160 gave in, you got your family a little wolf, wolf as I call it because I'm in toddler land 49 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:57,840 right now. I love that so much. Okay. So you said the dog was fine, but is it, are you 50 00:04:57,840 --> 00:05:02,800 enjoying any element of it? Maybe the smiles on your kids' faces or? 51 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:09,120 Yes. Like it's, I'm happy to see my kids happy. Also, my youngest calls him Bandy. His name 52 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:14,000 is Bandy. I don't know if I said that, but yeah, you did. Which is like, it's very cute. 53 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,120 But also we're like, you know, he's a puppy and so he needs to be potty trained. And so 54 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:24,040 I'm just like great. Like it's like for me, great. Another responsibility. So it's, but 55 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:30,960 it's like, again, my kids are happy. And therefore I am, I am happy. 56 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,800 So not to go on this for too much longer, but I have to tell this little additive story 57 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,920 and then we can move on to how you are awesome in system automation and podcasting and all 58 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:46,000 the cool things you do. My dad wanted to get my mom a dog because her dog had passed. And 59 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:51,920 honestly, like she, when her dog had passed, the dog that she had, my dad fought her on 60 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,720 getting it to begin with. Like he was like, you don't need a dog, blah, blah, blah. I 61 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,560 had gone off to college and he got a puppy. And so I came or she got a puppy and I came 62 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,080 back for, you know, whatever summer, mother's day, et cetera, whatever it was and got to 63 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:06,720 hang out with the puppy. Well, then that dog had passed and my dad, which is not normal 64 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:13,720 behavior for him. He is a very, he's, he's not a nurturing human. Let's say that decided 65 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:18,120 to get my mama dog. And I was just absolutely shocked by this. So he's like, Hey, you got 66 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,760 to help me find this dog, blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, Oh, I'm on it. I will happily 67 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,880 find a dog. So I'm looking around looking for the right dog. He ends up sending me this 68 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,880 cute dog and he's like, I want a dog like this. And it was like a cucker spaniel mixed with 69 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:33,800 like a, like a golden retriever, King Cavalier, Charles kind of thing. Like it's a curly little 70 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,760 dog. And I was like, for a burly man, you want a cute, curly little dog? So I was like, 71 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,880 okay, cool. And this is what he picked. Meanwhile, my mom picked a lab. That was the dog that 72 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:48,760 she had beforehand. Big dog, right? So anyways, we get this dog, right? And now Toby, who 73 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:53,800 is the dog, he's like eight or nine years old. He's not even my mom's dog. Like whenever 74 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,280 they are here or hanging out or where they are, the dog is with my dad and my mom made 75 00:06:58,280 --> 00:07:02,280 a comment the other day. Long story short, I have a dog that has anxiety and I was like, 76 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:06,040 mom, you should take this dog because it loves her. And they were here for Christmas. And 77 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,520 so it was all a joke. And my dad's like, well, technically, she doesn't have a dog because 78 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:15,160 this dog is technically mine. So anyways, I think it's really fun when people who are 79 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:21,280 sort of anti animals or anti some of these different things, it kind of, it unveils 80 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:25,400 a different side of things. And it's maybe not like loving the animal or the idea of 81 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,720 an animal so much as like the joy that it like brings to sort of the environment at 82 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:35,000 which it's in. So anyways, I'm excited for your dog. And I don't even know, we talked 83 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:40,160 about it in the pre show about how we needed to talk about Christmas and yes, maybe not 84 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:44,840 super exciting for others, but I am beyond smitten about bandit and this little dog that 85 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:51,280 your kids now have. So yay for that. Yes. Well, I'm glad I was like excited that we 86 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:55,720 were talking to them because I'm like, oh, Tess is going to flip when I talk. 87 00:07:55,720 --> 00:08:01,520 I love it. Okay, so now all I want to talk about is dogs, but the listeners probably 88 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:06,240 don't want to talk about dogs. Most of the time I get mostly software engineers into 89 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:11,440 the stream. So let's talk about you and the cool stuff that you are doing. You alluded 90 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:18,040 into some of your work. Let's actually dive into like your education first and then kind 91 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:23,000 of come back around. So what is your formal education as it relates to your technical 92 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,000 chops? 93 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:32,280 Yeah, so I got my bachelor's degree from the University of Scranton in media and information 94 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:37,920 technology, which was a brand new major my freshman year. And it's like kind of was like 95 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:43,440 half computer science, half communications. But what it ended up doing for me because 96 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:48,880 I'm really bad at math, I was able to be a computer science degree without ever having 97 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:56,600 to take calculus, which was really nice. I love that manipulate. 98 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:01,720 I like dropped out of my calculus class and I said Dr. Trisola was his name. He was a 99 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:06,880 Yankee fan too. So like we bonded and when I had him sign the withdrawal paper, I said 100 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:12,760 I literally said it's not you. It's me. Like, I'm really sorry. This is not a reflection 101 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:18,360 on your teaching. I just am really bad at math. And then because I got my master's degree 102 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:23,800 at the University of Scranton as well, I didn't have to take the GREs. And so I just was able 103 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:31,320 to go into the software engineering program again, sans calculus, which was nice. So 104 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,840 you know, I mean, like it's you know, it's not like I'm building like physics based, 105 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:41,760 you know, software or whatever. And so yeah, so I have my I got my bachelor's in 07 and 106 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,840 my master's degree in 09 in software engineering. 107 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:51,640 Very very cool. That's really interesting. Honestly, I feel like have you ever had this 108 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:57,000 conversation with other developers about math because I don't talk about it a ton, but I 109 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:03,520 really feel like developers in the sort of trends in my mind, usually like math. So I 110 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:08,920 feel like that's that's a slight exception. But maybe what I'm thinking is wrong. 111 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:14,320 I mean, I know I think you're right. Because it with both computer science and computer 112 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:20,480 information systems, you have a requirement to get to take math, right? It needs to be 113 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:26,920 part of it, especially because anecdotally, I find at least when I was going through 114 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:33,340 school, a lot of people got into software engineering or programming because they liked 115 00:10:33,340 --> 00:10:39,200 video games. And if you're building video games, you need to you need to understand 116 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:45,520 math. Yeah, like you need. And so, you know, I think like one of my strengths was like 117 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:51,000 I was self taught in web development before college. Sure. And so I knew like I wanted 118 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:57,160 to continue the programming side of things. But the math was really hard. I did realize 119 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:02,560 throughout though that like, I had my friend Dave is was very good at he minored in math 120 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:11,440 with a major in computer science. And so if if someone's able to explain the math to 121 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:17,480 me, I could write the program that does the math. But like I don't I couldn't do it by 122 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,680 hand on paper, right? So like somebody else would have to also QA because I'm like, I 123 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:27,040 don't know, it's getting given me a number. Is it the right number? Who knows? Of course, 124 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,000 like in program math, it's like you're drawing pictures or ray tracing or something. And 125 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,440 it's like, well, this is not where that's supposed to be. So obviously I'm wrong. Yeah. 126 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:43,040 Honestly, like I really felt like you and I kind of have like similar sort of timing 127 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:48,160 and like projects, I guess that we worked on. So where I'm alluding to here is I feel 128 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,360 like CSS was a lot of math. And like even yet actually now like CSS grade and some of 129 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,920 the other stuff is still a lot of math and it's easier math. But I really felt like I 130 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,520 thought it was interesting how much math actually went into sort of the like pixel perfect side 131 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,520 of website development. 132 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,760 Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. Like, I mean, like that's the math that I grok, 133 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:13,400 right? Like, you know, it's like it's the calculus and the advanced stuff that that 134 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:19,560 really, again, like the physics environment style mathematics that you have to do. But 135 00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:25,440 like, you know, like if you're doing equations and you know, I mean, like we both have PHP 136 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,920 experience. So like, yeah, before PHP eight, who knows what what you would get if you had 137 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:35,680 parentheses, right? Like, I don't know, depends on what the compiler is feeling that day. 138 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:43,760 So the processor, I guess it's not really a compiler. But you know, so like I do I have 139 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:49,160 an appreciation for math and my oldest is excelling. I mean, she's in second, but like 140 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,920 she's excelling at the math side of things. And she gets like really excited. She got 141 00:12:53,920 --> 00:13:00,280 really excited when I told her how to add like two seven digit numbers. And she was 142 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,880 just like, yes, give me more of these. And I'm like, this is great. So like that's like 143 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:10,080 super exciting. Yeah, but there's there's a lot of math and like the CSS side of things 144 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:15,480 to do. I mean, especially, especially now that you can kind of like draw and animate, 145 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:22,560 right? Or like working with HTML canvas, like I when I was teaching, I'll tell the whole 146 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:27,320 reason that I got my master's degree, it feels like was so that I could teach at the college 147 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:32,000 level. And so I was teaching at the university of Scranton for a while. And in the HTML course, 148 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:40,040 I like drew cherries by hand, by hand, doing HTML. And that's I think that's still up on 149 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:47,760 Code Pen. But like you got to you got to understand the Cartesian plane, right? So like there, 150 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,880 you know, if you're doing and like, obviously, there's like probably AI that can generate 151 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:59,320 that stuff now. But you know, if you want to do nifty things, you can build games with 152 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:08,120 like HTML like I've seen HTML CSS and JavaScript only like video games. You can you can do 153 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:12,800 that now. Like I saw a doom capture. Have you seen that? No, I haven't seen you have 154 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:20,760 to like do kill three bad guys to pass the capture. It's insane. Why could this exist? 155 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:25,280 That's the capture I want sent to me. The latest one that I had to do was like the puzzle 156 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,760 one where you had to shift them different angles to be like the correct. And I'm just 157 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:37,280 like, no, way too many clicks, like too much time, way too much time. Yeah. Okay, that 158 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:43,160 was a side tangent on math. But I personally love math and I couldn't get enough math. 159 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,560 And so when I did go to college, which I'm a college dropout three times over, I tried 160 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,360 criminal justice, tried business management, tried software engineering, all three times, 161 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,480 I'm just not a college person. I can't do it. I'm like, give me the thing and I'll do 162 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,200 it. But math, that was the thing I was like, Hey, if I'm going to be in college, give me 163 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:02,760 more math. So I like took as much as I possibly could. I don't know. It's just the fun like 164 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:09,080 the there's a I like things that have a very clear ending and maybe should have been a lawyer. 165 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,520 I've realized because like I like the idea of knowing did I win or did I lose? Was it 166 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:18,920 right or was it wrong? And I think like in software engineering, right? Yes, there's 167 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,600 an answer. You get to what you need. But there are so many different ways to get to that 168 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,520 answer that it doesn't feel like it's as black and white, you know? 169 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:32,240 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, first of all, that's the beauty of math. And this is what I haven't 170 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:39,760 really fully experienced, like common core math yet, in the sense that my daughter, or 171 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,880 like my kids would be graded wrong, even though they got the right outcome, right? I hear 172 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,400 like that's like a part of it. Like the teachers are going to hear from me because I'm going 173 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:53,600 to be like the whole point of math is that there's only one correct answer. And like 174 00:15:53,600 --> 00:16:00,800 if you got to it a different and correct way, then that's fine. Like I agree. So I don't 175 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:07,360 know if that's still in vogue, right? So we'll see. My daughter has not been graded wrong 176 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:12,520 for me telling her to do things the way I know yet. So we'll see. 177 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:19,240 I have kids from 16 to two, and I've been through some of that stuff already. And I have, I 178 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:24,080 wouldn't say that I've necessarily been like the quote unquote Karen that the teachers 179 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,400 don't want to deal with. But I have definitely had elements of conversations where I'm like, 180 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:33,920 I would rather that my child be a critical thinker and be able to get to the answer in 181 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,720 the way that they can think about it and formulate that in their minds. Because to me, that's 182 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,640 problem solving. And then they're understanding different ways to solve the problem instead 183 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,320 of the one way that you're telling them. And it was that conversation was hard for the 184 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,200 teacher to sort of rebuttal back to because at the end of the day, that's exactly what 185 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:55,360 we want is we want them to be able to solve any problem in any direction. So yeah, good 186 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:56,360 luck in my school. 187 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:02,760 Thanks. The scary thing about school, right? Is like school was designed to teach kids 188 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,120 to sit and do mindless work for eight hours in a factory, and it hasn't really changed 189 00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:12,400 much. And like, I'm sending my kids to Catholic school. And like, it's there's like a good 190 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:17,080 chance that they will continue to go to Catholic school into high school. And I think that's 191 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:23,040 where the rubber is really going to meet the road of like, Hey, I don't really like monoculture. 192 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:29,360 And I really want my kids to think critically. And so you need to give me a good reason. 193 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:34,920 If you give me a good reason, I'll back off. Yeah. But if it's like arbitrary, and that's 194 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,520 just the way it is, that's not going to fly with me and it never has. 195 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:43,040 Yeah, yep. I fully agree. My kids also were going to a Christian school for a while. And 196 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,000 honestly, like, because it wasn't a public school and it was a private school, they could 197 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:53,120 do the curriculum in the way that they wanted to. And they very much were that vein of thinking 198 00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:58,120 they sort of were, I want to say against the public school way, but they were very much 199 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:02,040 about like creativity and allowing them to sort of get to that result, which was really 200 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:07,600 beautiful. Then we moved and bought our farm and it's too far away. So anyways, I'll digress 201 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,240 on that. Okay, let's talk about your day to day, because I know that you do a bunch of 202 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:18,480 super cool stuff. And you shared very loosely what you do. But I would love to hear, you 203 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:23,000 know, the things that you're working on in your day to day, and how that sort of relates 204 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:29,680 to your your past roles and various things as a professor and otherwise as a developer, 205 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:36,880 and what you do in your day to day today. Yeah, so I probably like, well, around the 206 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:44,640 time my oldest was born, I realized that the shine of my monitor is like very distracting. 207 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:52,920 So let me, there we go. It's like the lighting just changed on my face. When my daughter 208 00:18:52,920 --> 00:19:00,520 was born, I left my last like agency development job, because I felt it was incompatible with 209 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:07,880 the way that I wanted to show up as a dad, right? Like, one of the last, like the last 210 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:13,000 straw was basically like, one of the project managers said, like, Hey, if you want to get 211 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:19,640 paid on time, you need to work this weekend. And I'm like, I said, that's not the contract 212 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:25,920 that we have, right? If I wanted that to be the case, I would work for myself. Your job 213 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:31,320 is to pay me on time. My job is to do the best job possible. And if it's not working 214 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:36,600 out, you can fire me, right? Like that's like, and then I thought like, I'm not so when I 215 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:42,240 left, right? Like my my friend was the the CTO. And he was like, is there anything we 216 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:47,080 can do to get you to stay? And I said, I'm not going to miss my kids first steps because 217 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:52,760 I'm work because I have to work late for you, right? And my wife was super supportive, right? 218 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:58,240 Like super supportive. And so I still did development after that for a while, but I 219 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:05,080 started to shift more into podcasting and helping people launch, grow and monetize their 220 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:10,160 podcasts. And I thought lots of people are doing this. Grow your podcast can almost feel 221 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:15,480 like snake oily because there's no science to it and it changes every year. And I'm not 222 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:20,200 I have good friends who are good at that. But to me, it felt snake oily because I because 223 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,440 there's no like formula, right? Yeah, it's just trying stuff. 224 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,240 Do I get that completely in my work? I get it. 225 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,560 Yeah, right? It's like, it's hard and you got to try things obviously, but like I realized 226 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:38,960 that my unique point of view or my unique offering is helping people improve their systems and 227 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:45,320 processes through automation. A lot of people I mean, a Cabo press, we talked about this, 228 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:50,640 but from people who are outside the development space, they're like, how does your brain work 229 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:55,960 that way? And it's because I've been a programmer for over 20 years. And so like I think like 230 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:01,120 computers think and I know that content creators and business owners who are outside of the 231 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:06,600 development space don't think that way. And so that's where I can bring my skills to 232 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,960 podcasters and busy solopreneurs. 233 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:15,000 I love that so much. So for anyone who's listening, Cabo press is this beautiful event. 234 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:20,360 That is invite only, but you can apply to join. I think applications are open right now. So 235 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:25,160 Cabo press.com. It's hosted by Chris Lemma, who is just a really amazing person happens 236 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,880 to also be my executive coach off and on as I've been throughout my business here. And 237 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:35,280 it is very focused on, I don't want to say solopreneurs because it's not just solopreneurs, 238 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,120 but it's very focused on sort of business leaders in a whole. And so solopreneurs all 239 00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:45,760 the way to sort of agencies, services, products, really a culmination. And it's just, you know, 240 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,480 these great individuals that that lemma brings together. And it's a very powerful event if 241 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,680 you have a business. I think Joe walked away with amazing stuff. I walked away with I think 242 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,680 what is the best offering that I could have ever pulled together, thanks to Cabo press 243 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,800 and the people who are there. So it's a really great event. So just wanted to throw that 244 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,680 shout out out there. 245 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:15,720 So as you're, they mean to cut you off on your, your advocacy there for Cabo press. 246 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:20,400 So as you're doing some of that like automation and sort of workflow type of the stuff, right? 247 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,840 I think there's, there's a lot that goes into that. And I think, you know, we see tools 248 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,400 like Zapier and make and now like relay.app, which I'm a huge fan of relay.app. I don't 249 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,120 know if you've checked them out recently, but I'm curious, like, do you tend to use 250 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:39,400 some of these like no code sort of different tools or are you leveraging API's or like, 251 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,640 tell me about some of the challenges and the technical things that you sort of face and 252 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,000 overcome as you're like helping these different companies do this. 253 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:52,280 Yeah, this is a great question, right? Because one of the promises I made to myself when 254 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:58,080 I started doing less development and more helping solopreneurs, creators, podcasters 255 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:05,480 was everything I did had to be no code because I didn't want to have to wait and then support 256 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:06,960 code for them. Right? 257 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,080 Oh, yeah. 258 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:15,800 I basically wanted to teach them how to automate. And so I think like my switching lanes converged 259 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:22,800 nicely with the no code movement, right? As it was called like a few years ago, right? 260 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,960 So like, yes, Zapier is out there, make is out there. There's like Pabli and I got to 261 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:32,480 check out relay.app now. But and then there's like automation tools built into things like 262 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:42,240 Airtable and Notion. And so my one of like my core tenants of helping people is we're 263 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:49,200 not going to do custom code, right? And even there's like a nonprofit that I'm helping 264 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,520 and they want to improve their system because right now it's basically like a giant Google 265 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:59,160 sheet. And I'm like, yeah, I could like find the right WordPress tools to do this and build 266 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:05,640 like some custom post types or whatever, like, or I can build this in Notion. And the good 267 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:11,360 thing about that, right, is like if I disappear, there's no technical debt, right? Lots of 268 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:16,520 people know Notion. And so that was really important to me. Like I even when I was doing 269 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:22,840 web development, I didn't want to build these big giant like requires 24 seven support 270 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:28,600 systems. Yeah, because that was never the business I wanted to run. Right? I want to 271 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:34,880 clock out on Friday at five o'clock and not clock back in until Monday at nine. And if 272 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:40,280 I'm building even e-commerce sites and the server goes down on Saturday, I got to be 273 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:46,440 there, right? And so like that has always been my predisposition. Even before I had 274 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:58,000 kids. But now that I'm doing kind of coaching for people who are not as technical as me, 275 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,680 I want to make sure that if something breaks, they're not like, well, Joe needs to read 276 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,880 like patch his code, right? Or like an API breaks, I don't want to go have to go in there 277 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,120 and fix it. 278 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:14,160 That is such a good point. Because so as you know, well, developer brains, right, like 279 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:19,000 I love doing the same thing. I love automating everything and creating this beautiful solution 280 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,600 where it's all building and working all in its own, which has honestly been my nemesis 281 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,600 this year in my business, because I feel like as soon as I think I'm right on the cusp 282 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,480 of like, this is it, I'm going to standardize this is how I do things. Then I start to standardize 283 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,400 and I'm like, Oh, nope, this isn't it. And it's just, it's been a giant waste of time. 284 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:42,200 So tip for anyone, don't automate and standardize until you really, truly are ready to do said 285 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:48,400 things. But I love that because as you think about that, right, like notion, I mean, notion 286 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,880 has extremely beautiful docs too. And so you're, you're this orchestrator of all this beautifulness 287 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,800 and you get to sort of shed light on like, Hey, dip into my engineering brain, right? 288 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,560 This is how I think, let me show you how I think and how that can come into your day 289 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:03,560 to day. 290 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,000 Yeah. And I think that's really helped me too. Because like, I mean, like you mentioned, 291 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:13,640 like some of my automations are like these Rube Goldberg machines. If people are unfamiliar, 292 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,560 I'm sure you all know what a Rube Goldberg machine is, but it's like one of those multi 293 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:23,840 step kind of something happens, the triggers like dominoes falling and then like a plate 294 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:35,320 breaks or something. Anyway, um, the Grinch movie showed us best. Oh, yes. Yeah. Exactly. 295 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:41,600 Right. Um, or like Wallace and Gromit is what I always think. Oh, yeah. Wallace's stuff 296 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:47,360 was Rube Goldberg machines. But, um, and like if one piece of that breaks, everything breaks, 297 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:52,200 right? But again, an earring brain, I'm like, okay, well, I can break these into discrete 298 00:26:52,200 --> 00:27:01,440 automations and both Zappier, I think Zappier, make.com definitely allows you to call other 299 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:07,080 make automations, right? Like the same thing with Apple shortcuts, right? Like I've been 300 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,320 really, I've been sharing a bunch of shortcuts on LinkedIn lately. Um, and instead of having 301 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:18,200 like this one massive Apple shortcut, I could have a bunch of Apple shortcuts and one that 302 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,920 just kind of brings them all together. That way I'm not breaking things. And when I'm 303 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,320 troubleshooting, I'm like, okay, this shortcut failed. So I know it's here. You're right. 304 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:32,040 So it's, um, again, that's like something that my engineering brain thinks about because 305 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,160 you always think about, all right, well, how can I generalize this more? How can I make 306 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:44,800 this code reusable? How can I make these components of my automation reusable? Right. So we have 307 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,800 a question in the chat actually from Twitch, which is crazy because I'd never get people 308 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,320 on Twitch. So I'm like, yay, I'm so excited. Someone's from Twitch. Um, have y'all looked 309 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:59,800 at Amazon bedrock for doing any of the AI workflow automations? Oh, no, I haven't. No. 310 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:07,320 Did you say you have? I haven't. No, no, me neither. Uh, this is, this is like, this 311 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,440 was a crazy thing in development too. Right. Like when I worked at the university of Scranton 312 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:16,320 in the IT department, my coworker every week would be like, yo, you need to check out react. 313 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:23,000 Yo, you need to check out Ionic. Yo, you know, I'm like, I'm like, let's put a pause on checking 314 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:30,120 out all the new tools. And when we build something, if the new tool helps us do the thing better, 315 00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:35,160 let's do that. Right. You are, you are the empowered developer and your friend is the 316 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,160 curious developer. You're the one that makes the business decisions and they're just like, 317 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:44,560 oh my gosh, look at this new shiny thing. Yes. We worked on a mutual project at some 318 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:51,080 point a million years ago where one of the people on the project was like, yo, we should, 319 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,080 we should do this with headless WordPress. And I was like, what would be the purpose 320 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:02,040 of that? And he was like, it would be cool. And I'm like, okay, I would need to learn 321 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:10,360 react. That's a big undertaking. Right. Like, so like, I'm not, this is not what I was 322 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:16,200 hired to do. And so if you want to go in that direction, I would not be the best person 323 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:21,040 to stay on this project. And then the project manager was like, yeah, let's just do it the 324 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,320 way we said we were going to. And I'm like, that makes sense. If there was like a good 325 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:30,520 business decision for it to be headless, great. But like, it would be cool is not that. 326 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:35,360 Yep. Yep. Yep. You know, what's interesting though, and this kind of gets to sort of like 327 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,800 shed a little light on the stuff that I do. And I said the empowered dev versus a curious 328 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,320 dev because it's, Adam Frankel has a really great book and it's called the developer 329 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,800 facing startup. And that's how he actually frames the personas. And I thought it was 330 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,520 a very enlightening because as you think about it, as developers, we get so excited 331 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,440 about these like shiny new tools and these different things. And even if it's automation, 332 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,320 right, I told you about relay.app because I was like, Oh, I wonder if Joe knows because 333 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,560 I stumbled upon it and it's like way better than Zapier, right. And so there's these curious 334 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:08,000 developers that are constantly like, Oh my gosh, look at this new tool. And it's just 335 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,600 a very interesting dynamic to sort of think of those two, right, because the empowered 336 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,720 dev seek out these curious devs of like, Oh, what are all these crazy tools you're using, 337 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,400 right, like your past coworker or friend at that place? Go ask them all the crazy tools 338 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,720 and be like, Hey, here's what I'm building, but let someone else go do all that work. 339 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,880 And so that's why I made that comment. So I think it's, it's, it's always fun to play 340 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,400 with those things. But I think for those that are listening on the stream, we have had a 341 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:36,080 lot of really great conversations about leadership and being a developer and how you can elevate 342 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,000 your skills. And I think this is one area where, you know, Joe is really showcasing 343 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,600 a prime example of like, it's really great to know about these new technologies. It's 344 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,280 great to dive into them. It's great to understand them. But when you're actually working on 345 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,040 true work, right, it's like, it's not the time to go learn react, because you're going 346 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,120 to, that might be the cool new thing to do when you've committed to a project and to 347 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,400 a scope and to a defined amount of time and budget, right? 348 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:04,240 Yeah, absolutely. I'll tell you, every time I go to set up like a new website for myself 349 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:11,040 or redesign my website, I think maybe I'll use 2025, right, in WordPress, or maybe I'll 350 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,600 use one of Andrew Andrews Nurend's new themes because he's awesome, right? And then I just 351 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:22,520 like, I grunt and I'm like, this is themes have changed. And I just end up installing 352 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,880 cadence again, right? Because I'm familiar with that and it's good. And until it becomes 353 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:36,240 bad, there's no reason for me to switch because I can work most efficiently using the knowledge 354 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:45,440 I use with cadence and cadence blocks versus having to learn a new framework just for the 355 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,120 sake of learning it, right? I'm not saying don't learn a new tool if it's going to be 356 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,640 very valuable to you. For sure. 357 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:59,200 But you know, there's technical debt and there's having to move stuff. And last year around 358 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:05,360 this time, I moved from to do this to things for my task manager because things is pretty 359 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:12,640 and I liked it. And then the entire year I hit a wall of like, how do I automatically 360 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:21,440 send things to things? How do I automatically send tasks to things and set the due date? 361 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:28,080 And you can't because it's an Apple ecosystem only app. So you can like your inbox, but 362 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,720 you can't automatically set due dates. And I'm like, this isn't working for me. So in 363 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:39,160 November, I moved back to to do this because they have a nice iOS app. It's not as pretty 364 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:47,920 as things, but every it has fantastic zappier and main integration. And so that was an important 365 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,320 part of my system, right? When I like when someone books a call with me, if it's a discovery 366 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:58,920 call, I want to set a task and to do is to follow up in two weeks. Or if it's a an interview, 367 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:05,240 I want to set a task for the day of the interview that reminds me to do the summary of the episode 368 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,880 so that I don't like forget what we talked about later. I guess that last one is less 369 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,360 crucial now that there are AI tools, but I still like to write down the things that 370 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:19,240 I liked best. Yes, I like and what AI determines is the best is not always the same thing. 371 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:26,160 Yeah, I definitely agree on that. Oh, wow. I agree with that. So I have like so much 372 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:31,160 relatability. The things if folks don't know cadence is a WordPress theme. So Joe was talking 373 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:36,840 about a word WordPress stack in terms of building out a website. I have had the same literally 374 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,240 the same exact things. And I have built my website a number of different times in my 375 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,400 business and I started on ghost, which is great, but you can't have a homepage. Then 376 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,600 I shifted to building a next JS like custom stack. That was an interesting, fun little 377 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,040 game of like cool test is going to learn something she doesn't know. But it pushed me to learn 378 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,560 things I didn't know and had a really cool builder. But then it's like maintenance, right? 379 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,840 Like I don't know the modern JS stack, like all these curious devs do, right? And so it's 380 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,320 been quite a pain to me for me to go back and like I created only a one page and now 381 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:14,600 I need sub pages and I'm just like, so much, you know, but I have to say and I can't believe 382 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,640 that this is true. And I think that you got the headphones a few years back when they 383 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:24,200 were sent out. But I just had a call with Amanda Martin from Wix and she actually walked 384 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:29,400 me through like all the different developer tools inside of Wix and like anyone who's 385 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,720 in WordPress is listening. I'm sorry, but I think I'm going to build my website in Wix 386 00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:38,200 because they like have all these different tools. Like you can write your own code, then 387 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:42,840 you can actually do headless, then you can actually build like a full fledged app. So 388 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,800 anyone who is listening and kind of like, wait, what, what's happening? There's a live 389 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,880 stream. It's on the YouTube. It's also in the, the dev hub, which you see scrolling very 390 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,520 annoyingly on the bottom of the live stream if you want to go check it out. But it was, 391 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,360 it was actually really liberating because I had that same thing and I wanted to go back 392 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,320 to WordPress. I know WordPress. That's what I've most recently built websites in is the 393 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:08,840 PHP stack, right? But WordPress is just so much maintenance and so much undertaking unless 394 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:13,320 you have the right host, the right situation on the right, whatever. So long story short, 395 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,840 why are building websites so hard today? Like, like seriously, it was not this hard years 396 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,880 ago. I don't know what's going on. Yeah, it shouldn't be right. And it's now like, it's 397 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:28,240 probably because like tools and browsers have evolved and everyone's trying to be everything. 398 00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:36,640 Right. Like, yeah, I got the, I got the Wix headphones famously a very, a well-known WordPress 399 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:43,120 bully called them a Roche motel after that happened. I know. I thought it was genius. 400 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,800 I thought it was super smart. I was like, it was one of the few like, because they DM'd 401 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:54,440 me and I was, I was like, what scam is this? But like my yearly theme that year was like 402 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,280 the year of being open minded or something like that. Some, some like, can't be thing. 403 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:03,480 And I was like, well, I would normally say no to this because I think it's a scam. But 404 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:09,040 I'll say, I'll see what's going on. And they sent me these great headphones and I was like, 405 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:14,520 yeah, yearly theme worked out right now. I know what it was interesting too, because 406 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:20,600 like if I recall correctly, they just reached out and I don't remember what, how the conversation 407 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,480 went, but you didn't have to do anything. It was a very quick conversation. And I just 408 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,480 remember it was like something around, we want to send you something and I'm like, great, 409 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:32,640 here's my address, cool. Like it wasn't uncommon, especially in like DevRel for me to get swag 410 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,720 sent to me depending on the scenario. Right. And so I didn't think anything of it. But 411 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:42,760 then when these like beautiful Bose headphones, like the latest came out, I was like, this 412 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:48,560 is not at all what I expected in this package. So yeah, very interesting. Okay. So coming 413 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,320 back to your day to day, we're nearing sort of the end of the show here, although they 414 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:58,760 can really go as long as I'd like for them to go. But what are some of the, I guess, 415 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,880 I think there's a, there's a two pronged approach to this kind of question and answer. And what 416 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:08,800 I'm sort of probing for is like, what is it that you bring together in terms of like, 417 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,640 I think sharing an example of sort of an automation and a workflow. And then my sort of follow 418 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:18,600 up to that is how have you shifted your automations and your workflows to bring AI into it? That's 419 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:26,000 like the curious side of it. So yeah, good question. Okay. So, yeah. So I mean, I think 420 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:33,680 my, my best processes will say, you know, actually, no, I'm going to not use a podcast 421 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,240 example. I think this is a good one. I hate using CRMs. Like I'm just bad at them and 422 00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:41,680 I never want to pay for the good ones. And it's just like, I'm never like, why would 423 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,560 I pay for HubSpot when I'm never going to use it, even though HubSpot's like really 424 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:54,960 good. So I built a simple one in Notion, right? And I'm in Notion anyway. So it's perfectly 425 00:37:54,960 --> 00:38:01,480 fine, right? The cool thing about the system I built, right, is that the way I don't, I 426 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,600 don't have to input anything into Notion, right? It's just a place where the data goes 427 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:12,440 for me to look at. So when someone fills out my coaching form, they get added. Or if they 428 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:17,440 schedule a discovery call with me, they get added and the date they get added, and then 429 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:24,040 the next follow up date is automatically set, right? And then again, that gets added to my 430 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:29,600 task manager too, because I don't have like notifications turned on for a lot of things. 431 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:36,040 But to do this, my task manager does have notifications turned on. And so that has been 432 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:42,720 the best way for me to keep track of leads and notify people who are interested in my 433 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:47,640 work when I have a new product without, you know, de facto adding them to my mailing list, 434 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:52,800 because my friends, I'm going to tell you something here. Just because you have gained 435 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,720 access to someone's email address doesn't mean you get to put them on your mailing list. 436 00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:03,640 They need to opt into that. Hate that. If you've, if you've ever added me to your mailing 437 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:10,360 list because I went on your podcast, don't like that unsubscribe from that. So I don't 438 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,280 add them to my mailing list, but I do send out personalized emails to them when I'm 439 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,960 like, Hey, I just launched this new thing called the unstuck sessions. You might be 440 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:26,320 interested, right? Yep. The way that AI has changed that is there are two custom GPT's 441 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:39,280 that I use now. So when we hop on the discovery call, I will zoom AI companion is fine. It 442 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:46,400 frustrates me that they don't include the raw transcript. I have it zoom. You have it 443 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:54,400 because that's what you're giving to the AI. Give me the transcript. Yes. No, you just 444 00:39:54,400 --> 00:40:03,520 want me to trust your tool. So I record the call. I use Mac whisper to transcribe and 445 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:09,000 then there's a custom GPT. Do you know Alistair McDermott? I don't think so. He was like in 446 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:15,600 the WordPress space for a while. He's like an AI guy all the way through now. But he's 447 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:22,680 doing some good work. Yeah, we got every probably quarter or something like that. But he built 448 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:31,600 a custom GPT that I want to get the name right for called sales call insights. And so he 449 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:38,680 encourages you to anonymize the transcript. So like remove the names and just write like 450 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:45,920 your name, I guess, and then like just the client. And you you feed it the transcript 451 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:52,680 and then he's written like a really robust set of prompts and the instructions to analyze 452 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:58,840 the sale call, figure out the pain points. And then I usually follow up with like, what 453 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:04,160 did I promise the client, right? Like what did I promise I would deliver after this call? 454 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:10,680 And that like executive summary plus deliverables, I copy and paste into Notion. And that is 455 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:15,160 the main thing that I've been using to put together proposals, which I also put together 456 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:23,240 in Notion now. Yeah, so like that has been a game changer for me. Because I mean, if 457 00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:29,000 we're being honest, right, like I have a few different offerings, but the proposals are 458 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:34,600 not going to be that different. But adding the stuff from sales call insights, let's 459 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:43,840 me say like, hey, here's what I is your problem. And here's the solution I think can fix. So 460 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:48,640 that's been that game changer. And my proposals have been better. They haven't just been like 461 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,120 emails. I've been including a video like walking through the proposal, which has been like 462 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:59,720 a good I've gotten a lot of compliments on that. And so, you know, I'll never use AI 463 00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:06,320 to like write full content for me. But like this stuff, man, it's it's definitely made 464 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,200 me a better sales person. 465 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:17,320 Hmm, that sounds beautiful. Trevor's asking for the prompt in the chat. Do you know where 466 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,080 that can be found? You said sales call insights is it? 467 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:33,760 Yeah, it's the custom GPT. I think you can find it in in the custom GPT store. I guess 468 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:41,400 the same. Yeah, I am really fuzzy on this. He sent me. Oh yeah. So in chat GPT, there's 469 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:47,680 going to be a little button under chat GPT. If you've used custom GPT's that says explore 470 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:55,440 GPT's like this is dumb. I can do this. Right. Can you see this? Okay. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 471 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,880 It might be it might be. 472 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:06,840 Asked for for the people watching on the street. I'll move to my browser and open chat GPT 473 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:11,480 there and hopefully I wasn't saying something stupid. 474 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:18,280 So so yeah, so you should see a button here explore GPT's click on that and then let's 475 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,760 see sales call insights. 476 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,800 I had no idea this existed. 477 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,440 Yeah, and that's so I don't know if I have access to it, but that should be the first 478 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:31,960 one that pops up. It's from my friend Alistair McDermott, but it's been like a game changer. 479 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:32,960 It's been really good. 480 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,360 Are they paid for me? The screen is a little bit smaller than what the viewers are probably 481 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:42,080 seeing honestly, but actually here. Let's just know not that. Yeah. 482 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:48,080 So this is this is totally free. You know, there's like a little, oh, copy link. Oh, 483 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,800 dip. Can I just do this? 484 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,920 Yeah, you should be able to throw in the chat. I think Trevor should get it because he's 485 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,240 on Twitch. So it'll send a Twitch and YouTube. 486 00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:59,000 I'm good at computers. I don't know if I can add to the chat. 487 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,080 You should be able to put in a private chat and not offer it in there. 488 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:09,840 We all the things will get it to you, Trevor. Boom. There it is. 489 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:14,120 Can you sell prompts on there? Or is it are they all free? 490 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,880 I don't know. I'm going to I'm like willing to bet. I kicked down the brightness on my 491 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:24,000 monitor so it didn't shine on my face, but I'm like willing to bet that some of these 492 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,920 are probably paid. Right. I feel like that was like a thin 493 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:35,280 canvas. I'm going to bet that like some of these probably are paid. 494 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:41,720 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's I have like a couple of prompts behind the scenes that I have essentially 495 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:46,320 started to define and master and I'm trying to figure out like, do I give them away for 496 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,960 free? I feel like I kind of can't because it's pretty, pretty tied to my business and 497 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:54,840 like how I create results. But I'm like, is there a monetization strategy? So that's 498 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:55,840 really interesting. 499 00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:02,200 Yeah. Yeah. I yeah. I have a hard time with that too. 500 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:07,720 Yeah. I know it's like I feel like you build the plug in for yourself, right? And then 501 00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:09,040 you're like, can I sell this? 502 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,880 Yeah. And it's like I want to give it away because I want I always want to help people, 503 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,280 but then I'm like, I give everything away all the time. And so I'm like, okay, I probably 504 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:21,680 need to find as a business, right? I need to find little, little revenue streams. So 505 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,800 that's it. All right. All of that aside, that is exciting. Love to hear about that. Super 506 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,760 cool that you've brought that in. It sounds like there's some good prompts and stuff to 507 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:34,960 help with that. Okay. So I have one final question that I like to ask every single guest because 508 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:40,960 there's just a variety of answers that I get from this. How do you get unstuck? 509 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:48,440 Oh, I, man, this is a good question because I, my latest project is called, or product 510 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:49,920 is called the unstuck sessions. 511 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:55,880 Ooh, I love that. Yeah. It's like, it's asynchronous coaching, right? But it's like, hey, if you're 512 00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:01,760 stuck, drop a question and I'll answer it on like Tuesdays or whatever. So how do I get 513 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:10,240 unstuck? Well, I talk out loud to myself a lot. I can use this term here because I've 514 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:12,960 been saying this in like creator and business circles and people are like, what are you 515 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:17,600 talking about? But like rubber ducking helps me a lot. Are you familiar with that term? 516 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,000 Or is it just something that I invented? No, you're, I'm familiar and I thought everyone 517 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,400 is familiar, but my guest on Monday hadn't been. And so I was like, oh snap, I didn't 518 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,560 realize that it's maybe not as known as I thought. 519 00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:35,520 And like when you explain it, it sounds ridiculous. It's like, well, you talk to a rubber duck. 520 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:42,800 That's where the term comes from. But yeah, but anyway, so like that helps me a lot. 521 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,720 So just to reiterate for folks, rubber ducking is like re-explaining the problem. And when 522 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:51,600 you re-explain it, you're like, oh my gosh, hello, I totally missed it. Cause then you're 523 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,160 when you're explaining you, you realize the things you may have missed. 524 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,280 Yeah, it's like you go to like a coworker or a friend and you're like, Hey, I'm having 525 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,720 this problem. And then you explain it and then it triggers, right? Like, oh yes, I've 526 00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:04,360 got it. And so it's called rubber ducking because then people got into the practice 527 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,000 of like putting a rubber duck on their desk and talking to the rubber duck. 528 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,080 Do you have one? Were you reaching for one? Cause your arm was moving. 529 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:15,600 Oh no, I'm just reaching into the void here. I've got poker chips that I like to shuffle. 530 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,520 Oh, nice. Nice. Okay. 531 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:22,520 And I assume, you know, well, the dog's not allowed in my office to bring it back to the 532 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,640 beginning. The dog's not allowed in my office because I don't want to have to keep it so 533 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:33,560 clean. Cause he eats everything. But I suspect if I ever am working like in the dining room, 534 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:38,040 the dog will become my rubber duck because he just sits, he only like sits at my, you 535 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,040 know, dogs can tell that I don't like them and they're like, just love me. 536 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:47,240 Yeah. I told you, you're going to be my dad pretty soon with a dog. 537 00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:48,240 Can't wait. 538 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:52,840 So like, yeah. So talking out loud is maybe the best thing I do to get unstuck. If I'm 539 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:58,400 really stuck, like, and I just need to walk away, I'll usually go play the drums. I have 540 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:05,680 two drum sets. And that is enough to like get like, it's like an active thing. It gets 541 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,240 my heart rate up. It gets me not thinking about anything remotely related to work for 542 00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:17,320 a while. And it's just like, it's, it's my favorite active thing to do. 543 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,680 I love that. It definitely gets you away from it. I feel like oftentimes you just have to 544 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,920 sort of step away from the problem that we're in and just like do something completely different 545 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,400 and come back to it. I do the same thing, but I'll like go hang out with my cows or 546 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:34,480 just go be on the farm or go sit on my patio and, you know, it's just sort of step away. 547 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:41,080 Yeah. This was like this crystallized for me so like so strongly in college. I was trying 548 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:51,400 to figure out I was taking like a machine language course. It was the worst. And we 549 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:56,240 had like a like a fake CPU like assembly language that we were working with. It looked like 550 00:48:56,240 --> 00:49:02,440 easier to like learn the concepts. And I was super stuck. And my friend messaged me and 551 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,760 was just like, Hey, like I'm going to this coffee shop event. It's like a guy with an 552 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:11,960 acoustic guitar. Like, do you want to come? And I'm like, yeah, I need to like step away. 553 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:16,600 And like literally, like it was like a scene from the social network. I was sitting there 554 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:23,640 at a table and I thought of the solution and I wrote it on a napkin. I'm like, I can't 555 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,680 believe this is literally happening right now. So like, I figured that I wrote it on 556 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:32,600 the napkin, put it in my pocket and then like, like gangbusters worked when I got back to 557 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:33,600 my door move. 558 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:38,240 Oh my gosh, that's amazing. We actually just laughed about and I don't remember what session 559 00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:41,240 it was in. It may have been with a live stream guest, but we were sort of like poking fun 560 00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:46,120 at being old. I was poking fun at myself at being old and like writing code on paper. 561 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:50,720 And so it was sort of a joke of Tesla writing code on paper. So hey, sometimes writing code 562 00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:53,920 on paper is just what you have to do. 563 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:58,160 It helps. I mean, like, you know, it doesn't have to be syntactically correct, but like 564 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,320 exactly, work it out on paper, get away from a screen. 565 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,320 Yes, yes, yes. Get away from a screen. Touch grass. 566 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:06,840 Touch grass. Love that. Yeah. 567 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,960 Yeah. Okay. This has been lovely. I honestly could talk to you for hours and hours and 568 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:16,800 hours as you know, but you have shared some really awesome things, very, very awesome 569 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:21,160 things that people can take action on. I would love to shed light on where they can find 570 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:26,240 you and follow up with you, maybe hire you for your podcast services. Super awesome. 571 00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:30,640 Joe actually did a really great like workshop sort of coaching session with me early on 572 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,720 in my business to help me plan what my podcast is going to be. Did none of it. Didn't even 573 00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:39,680 end up doing that podcast, doing this instead. And I feel like this is the answer, but his 574 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:45,240 his knowledge definitely played into how I thought about this. And so really great resource. 575 00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:50,600 Love that. Joe is on it with his beautiful setup. So he has amazing insights into your 576 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,760 video audio setup, amazing insights in your podcast, amazing insights into automation. 577 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:59,880 He's a super great human. Now he has a dog. So he's even cooler. So Joe, tell the world 578 00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,440 where to go and find you and all the awesome stuff that you do. 579 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:08,440 Yes. So I think we've talked a lot about automations and things that I like to work on. And so 580 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:17,400 you can go to Casabona.org slash automations to get a database of 40 plus soon to be 50 581 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:23,160 automation templates that I share for free. They're like Zapier make Apple shortcuts. 582 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:28,920 So I suspect that I'll probably start adding some prompts in there too. I'm like hesitant 583 00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:34,560 because I don't think there anything to write home about, but like sharing ideas is, is, 584 00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:39,960 is where I'm at. So and yeah, Casabona.org is just the place where you can get in touch 585 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:46,000 with me too. But Casabona.org slash automations get free access to my automations database. 586 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,800 It will add you to my mailing list, but I, I promise I sound like a big unsubscribe button 587 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,680 early on in case you're like, I just wanted the free stuff. 588 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:59,920 Yeah, I will tell you, Joe is a very good storyteller and very good with like how he 589 00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:03,400 creates his content. I'm trying to type and talk at the same time. We'll see how this 590 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:07,560 goes. And so I strongly recommend that you do that. And it's okay that you're on his 591 00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:12,120 mailing list because it's good. It's a great mailing list. So Trevor, I threw that link 592 00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,800 for you in the chat and anyone else who might be listening, if you're on Twitter, YouTube, 593 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:21,080 Casabona.org slash automations is now in the chat. If I spelled it correctly, hopefully. 594 00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:22,880 Thank you, Brad. I did. 595 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,080 It's fairly easy. Yeah. Perfect. 596 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,480 Oh God, I clicked a link. Am I going to leave this chat? 597 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:33,240 Oh, no, it might. Okay, don't click it yet. 598 00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:38,200 Thank you, Joe so much. I'm so excited to have spent my morning with you. And honestly, 599 00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,640 I am beyond smitten to hear that Lil Bandit is in your house and he's sitting at your 600 00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:48,080 feet because I think the next time we'll talk, you'll be like, so maybe just maybe I might 601 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:53,440 like dogs just a little bit and I can't wait. 602 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:57,920 We'll see what happens. We'll follow up with the thrilling conclusion. 603 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:02,400 I love it. I love it. Okay. Thank you. I hope everyone has a fabulous rest of their day 604 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:12,960 and week. Get yourself a puppy. It brings you joy.