Hello, hello, everyone. Super pumped, as usual. Honestly, I say that every single day. But really,
like, I have the best people in my network and I'm just so happy and thankful for that. So,
today on the 99 Dev Problems Show, we have Flo. Flo, I'd love for you to introduce yourself and
just tell us a little bit about you. So, hello, everyone, and happy new year. I'm Flo from France,
and, well, in short, I have 10 years of work experience as a founder of VC and more recently,
an individual contributor. In the last, yeah, I worked my entire career with technical agencies,
so developers, engineers, PhDs, you name it, and I love doing this. So, recently, I was a marketer
in real great, the first companies like clerk, like Minlify. And more recently, I co-founded a
community of DevTool founders and marketers. So, we have more than now 2000 community members,
people from awesome, the first companies like Algolia, Versailles, SuperBase, they're all in.
And also, I started working on Launchweek.dev, a place where you can discover
new developer products and find inspiration. Have a good day.
I love it. I love everything that you said. You're doing such awesome work. We got to chat
about Launchweek quite a bit before we got on the stream. And I'm really, really, really excited
about Launchweek. I think, like you had shared, like Product Hunt obviously has grown and evolved,
and it's still a great, beautiful place to go find lots of new, awesome tools and products.
But when you're in the specific developer tool space and trying to launch, right,
it's really difficult to sort of get that level of awareness you could get from Product Hunt
when there's all these other products around. And I thought that was just such a beautiful
sentiment that you had shared previously. And so, I'm so excited for Launchweek.
I think a lot of my clients will really enjoy Launchweek, and I think it has a really beautiful
future. So, Launchweek.dev, for anyone who's like, wait, what are they talking about? What is Launchweek?
Any questions? Definitely reach out to Flow. If you don't know how to reach out to Flow,
I will connect you. So, diving in, I just wanted to obviously drop that little pitch there.
What's your developer education in terms of like sort of what you, how you kind of have
built the technical chops that you have today?
Okay. So, honestly, with Launchweek.dev, I really wanted to sheep fast. So, I was familiar with
Manify, that next-gen base platform for the clinician sites. And that worked pretty much
was the idea of that I had for Launchweek.dev. I really wanted this product, a documentation site.
So, that both lists the different paths that are coming out weeks and also work on the content.
So, nothing big here. It's mostly bored by Manify. So, next-gen base platform, and then it's mostly
GZN and markdown. But, you know, I wanted also something to be, to sheep fast. And so, that's
why I started very simply. I love that. Okay. Let me reframe the question because I made it
sound like I was talking about Launchweek's developer education. But I'm curious more about you
and like your formal education, if you are self-taught or if you have a college degree or
anything in that regard. But honestly, that's a very exciting information. Yeah. So, I would say
it's a combination of both. I mean, I started learning coding on my own. I was a teenage.
I was doing like union activities and I wanted a website for that union. And my brother, who was
studying computer science, will just introduce me to HTML and CSS. He started writing a few lines
of code, HTML, head, body. And then he pushed it live and it was on the web. And I was like, whoa,
amazing. And this is basically how it started. And so, then I started doing a lot of design,
web design, and also, well, web integration. And then I joined a, then I went to college to study
computer science. But I dropped off in order to, I got bored with studies. So, I went to the US to
start my first company. And then went back to Europe to, he failed. So, I went back to Europe and
started another company. And then, well, so, I had the opportunity to launch a, a nonprofit in order
to back and fund more DevTools with funding. And that was a fantastic experience. And very good.
Oh, my gosh, that is so fun. Okay, so two things super resonated with me. When you were sharing
the HTML and CSS thing, that reminded me of, so I had this really fun experience. And I want to
share this because it was just such a like a beautiful thing. This was probably back in like
2017 or 2018. And I was living in the Minneapolis area. And so, I was doing a lot with sort of local
tech there and had been a chapter leader for Girl Develop It was teaching a lot of women to code.
And someone actually presented an opportunity to me. And he's like, Hey, they really need a program
in South Minneapolis at a very, very diverse school, like an actual high school. And they're
like, essentially how this high school operated. It was very low income, very, very diverse in terms
of, in terms of students, right? So, there was a very heavy, like, African American population,
a very heavy, like Hispanic population, very heavy Somalian population, but, but very low on
very low on sort of white Caucasian population. So to kind of paint that picture sort of in the
US, right, you're looking at, unfortunately, you're looking at sort of a lower income school,
right? And so in that school, they tried to offer a lot of after school curriculum because these
kids were going home to no parents, no care, no one home, no one around. And so they were trying
to keep the kids at the school for as long as possible. So, so I came in and started teaching
them how to code. And I remember the first time that I went in there, I was like, okay, great,
like, you know, I didn't really know what I was doing. I had been teaching adults, like,
I understood kids fundamentally, I had little kids. And so I was like, okay, and they all sort of
were just like, in an uproar and like just acting sort of, I'm gonna say like naughty, but that's
kind of the right word, I can't think of the best word, they were not behaving. And I'm like, okay,
I got to figure out how to like reign this in, right? I'm not a teacher, I don't know how to
get high schoolers to behave. And so I'm like, okay, let's just check this out. Before we have to
learn any of this technical stuff, because at the end of the day, they had to pick one of these
after school things. And they were like, Oh, learning to code is the least, the least worst
of all the options, right? And so I basically was like, I got to do something. So I FTP'd a file
up to the internet, like literally was like, boom, boom, boom, this is what we're going to write,
I put a GIF on there, I was just goofy about it. I'm like, boom, it's on the internet, go to this
website. And they were like, wait, what? And then all of a sudden it was just like silence. And
they're like, show us again. And it was like, literally the trigger to get those kids to see
that like coding was really cool. So I love that your brother did that because that was
in a moment of like, Oh my gosh, I have to figure this out. I did the same. And it ended up like
intriguing them about code. And it was so beautiful. I met so many cool kids. It was awesome. But
nonetheless, I think it's it's such a cool way to be like, whoa, I can literally make the internet.
So I also, second follow up, dropped out of college because I just couldn't do it. I was bored,
I can't stand lectures, I'm like, give me the thing and I'll solve it myself or I'll do it. And
that's my way. So it sounds like we're very, very relatable. Yeah, I want to, I want to
something concrete, right? Something tangible, something that I can touch and feel or or or at
least yeah, or at least I want to work on my own. That was the feeling I had. So that was now 15 years
ago. But I remember that feeling. And and so yeah, when I was 14, 18, and also an opportunity to go
to the US to to start that thing. And and and that was a fantastic experience.
Oh, I love that so much. Just want to say hey to David and Nick in the chat. They're both
Hello. All right, so you get to solve a lot of challenges. So thinking about sort of, well,
let's walk through your day to day. Like, I know that your day to day has obviously shifted a bit.
You did a lot of work with launch week last month, really exciting stuff. If folks haven't
seen it again, go check it out. Really cool things got launched. But what is like your day to day
look like today and sort of as you're diving into it? So that's a good question. I think that
you know, right now I'm trying I want to grow launch with that dev. Because I feel that
for dev to founders and marketers, that is the way the right way to to show your products and
your dev tool to the world in a very efficient way. And so and so I'm exploring different
different stuff on my day to day. And and so what does it mean means that when I work on the
on the product, so exploring different layouts in ways for for people to discover those those
those new products, and also work on I think that there's a huge piece on content, because there's
not a lot of literature on that topic. And so I think that working on the content also is something
that's that that's part of my day to day job. Nowadays, and with that in mind, so that's the
building part. There's also this this distribution part that it's making sure that
I engage with the right people having fun on social platforms and on communities.
Again, was that mindset of being as helpful as possible for all of them? Yes. Oh, I love that so
much. We got to talk about that in the pre show about being as helpful as possible. And I honestly
think we should we should chat about it because for me, and I'm sure that it's likely this
conversation, but giving back and helping and in like creating that content right that you were
like, that's the kind of stuff that brings in those natural opportunities, it brings in those
roles, it brings in client work, it brings in new beautiful relationships. So I'd love to hear
like, I'd love to just basically tap into that, right? Like, you feel very passionately about
give, give, give, give. What's kind of your story behind that? Like, how do you see that coming to
fruition? And how has that happened for you? Very, again, an only very good question. I'm not for
you to share out into that. I like asking loaded questions. So honestly, I don't know where it
started out started probably that could be related with my story with my developer education, because
you know, the web started as an open source project, right? It was a lot about
being in the open, building in the open and sharing the knowledge so it's, it can spread all over the
world. Yes. And I think that's that's a mindset I that I'm loving this idea of keeping things open,
right? I had past experiences with blurred conversations and dark, that was dark patterns and
so on. And I think that being open is and transparent is so important to me, at least. And I think
that's something that reflects when you when you give to the community, it also means being open.
And when you try to when you when you give, give, give, it also means that you can have all the answers,
right? But because you give, you just do your best to be as helpful as possible. And it doesn't
mean you absolutely you need to have the answer. It means that you create the right connections or
at least, you know, you just do your best to be helpful. And I think that ultimately that's
those two stories are very related. So yeah, the origins of internet,
this, this open source community, this open mindset. And I think that this could be very
related to that give, give, give mindset when when you when you think of community engagement.
Oh, my gosh, I so, so, so agree. So that actually, I think that's a really important
step when you when you when you think of community engagement. Oh, my gosh, I so, so, so agree. So
that actually like has me questioning a couple things and like, not in a bad way in a good way,
but I'm sitting here thinking and as I've been growing my business, right, and I feel like you
probably can relate to this is, I've had so many people who are like, Oh, just, I can help you,
just let me know how I can help. And I'm like, I don't but I don't want to ask someone for help
if I'm not going to pay them right. And so it's been this very interesting thing where I'm like,
fine, I can handle it or I can do this or whatever it might be. But then when given the opportunity,
right, if I've done a developer event, or I've posted something, instead, they've chosen to be
like, here, just let me go share or they'll like go in and do something. And when I say they, I'm
referring to developers. And so it's been very interesting for me to see and I know this, right,
because I'm constantly like, let me just give you everything that I have, let me connect you to
everyone I know, let me tell you everything that I know that can help you, because that's what I
wanted, right, very similar to what you said. I learned Dakota a while ago, it's been a hot minute.
So like back then, there wasn't the resources that we have now, right, it was like W3 schools,
and that was kind of it. I'm going to guess you're in the same timeline, because it's about that
same mark of what you said, it's around like that 15 years, right. And so it do you think,
because now there are developers who are younger than us who are sort of newer in their career,
right? Do you think that that sentiment is just developers? Because I honestly feel like when
I talk to developers, yes, there aren't are the exceptions, right, that maybe have an ego or they're
on a sort of a power trip. And those are the people maybe not helping, right? But I feel like for
the most part developers are like, if you're a dev, I got you, like, what do you need? I'll drop
everything I'm working on to help you. I know I have stuff to do, but like you're a dev too. So
like, let me help you. Do you think this is a developer thing?
Frankly, I'd say yes, I would. I do think so. You know what I enjoy the most. I think that's also
why I really enjoy engaging with developers is because
it's because when you're a developer, it's a type of audience that is very humble.
And because, you know, there's, there's so much different frameworks, programming languages,
you can't know everything. Right. And so you have to be very humble in the way you approach your work.
And I think that also could be so humility. And I think that's also this mindset of
transparency in building in the open also could be very related because, you know, there's this
there's this strong and open source culture. No matter what you're working on right now,
you can be in a you can work in a in a close source company, you still have that.
Internally, you can you still have that mindset in culture somewhere because
at the very beginning, you probably, yes, as you mentioned, you probably were, you probably
started learning how to code by by doing so it means that you had to read code and probably
probably comes from an open source project. And so and you and you're experiencing it on your own,
you you broke the code from a business project. And I think that that ultimately it's, you know,
it has an impact on your life on your on your work as a developer, no matter where you work
now, if it's a it's a close source company or this company and so on. At some point in your career,
at some point in your education, you were you were impacted by that open source mindset. And I
think that's ultimately that makes you also be be be transparent and be ready to just help.
I agree. And it was so I've been saying this for the last, you know, I would say the last six weeks,
okay, so it hasn't been a long time. But I went to commit your code in Dallas. So Danny Thompson
put this event on sort of it really quickly ended up being just a beautiful event, everything that
us developers like really want to see coming back after COVID the authentic developer curated
events where it's not these giant sponsorship boosts and people aren't trying to push stuff in
your face. It's really just developers getting together and learning from each other. It was
so beautiful. But I constantly say this and it's just been so interesting that developers are not
anti social. We are anti social to the rest of the world. But to each other, we are like, hey,
friend, how are you like, and we don't have to be friends, right? Like we can meet them for the
first time. And we're like, Oh, I know you on Twitter. I know you on LinkedIn. Like we are
instantly best friends. Here's how I do this. How do you do this? Like, do you want to go to
lunch? Let's go get coffee. Like it's just this instant click if they know that they are like you.
And so do you think that this plays into that? Yeah, I'm so biased on this topic because I'm
personally considered, you know, if you there's probably zero chance you would meet me on a
on a live event, zero chance. It was before the pandemic. My wife and I would decide to
move out from from town. We decided to to settle here in the countryside. And great was that,
you know, I'm kind of an introvert. But so I'm just right here, alone in front of my of my computer.
But this is my small world. This is where I thrive. Because I also know that there's a lot of
connections and live conversations like the one we're having right now. And so yeah, I mean,
I'm biased on that. And I feel that I feel that. Yeah, it's, it's kind of, it's like there's a
there's a life on the grid. If if you're familiar with with with Tron, with Ray Payone,
it's, you know, this inspired science fiction. And I think there's a lot of true stories.
If if in, if you read science fiction. So so yeah, I can I can I can't think more on this.
Yeah. I mean, honestly, it's it's interesting too, because like you said, it doesn't have to be
in person, right? It can be anywhere like you and I were just talking in the pre show and we were
like, Oh, hey, launch week would be great for my clients. Maybe there's things that your clients
need that I have. And like, you're like, Oh, maybe there's like some, you know, revenue share. And
I'm like, I know, we just like partner, right? Like, we just help each other. And I think that's,
that's what's so beautiful about like the developer ecosystem. And I think it's interesting.
And maybe, right, this is why we see sort of the developer relations and some of the other
types of functions. Because if a developer were to start to have a conversation with a
marketer, right? And like, you and I can call ourselves marketers. But at the same time,
we are also developers and we understand their ecosystem. But if, say, a traditional marketer
comes in and is like, Hey, I want to just start talking to you. It's like, they can tell, like,
they can just tell that they're not, they're not the same, right? They're not the one that's coding,
they're not the one that's technical with them. And it's not that they're going to be mean to them,
but it'll be like, Oh, it's great to meet you, right? And like, turn away and start,
whether physically or virtually, right? And start going to the relationships that they do want to
thrive for. But it's just been very interesting for me to sort of see it from a business side of
how much developers really do want to spend time with their peers. And I think that it's coming
back to sort of launch week and the techniques of driving growth, right? It's like, that's where
it's at is like, how can you bring those people together? How can you bring the users together
that already love your product, and then find those users that are not a part of that circle
already and let them build that community with those other developers and tell those stories.
So I, yeah, anyways, I feel like you probably have the same sentiment and opinions.
So something weird with our roles is that, you know, we're talking about giving, giving, giving,
and on the other end, if you have, if you, if you have that business view, how do you,
how could you possibly justify your work? How could you possibly, well, yes, just if I divide that
you engage in communities by giving, giving, giving and not, and not getting back and how do
you make sure that your, your, your other stakeholders or your top management could, could
possibly accept that. I think that's something that is very specific to this death to industry also is
that developers are, so we talked about the, the specificities of that audience and something
that is very important also is that developers, they share the love. The moment you have one
developer that, that is on board, that use your product, love it and use it in production,
you know that you have a lifelong customer, you have, and that is beyond a lifelong customer.
It's an advocate, it's someone that can talk about your product. And I, and the problem is that
it takes time and you won't solve it with quick wins, with ads and so on. You have to bet long
term and that's something that is very specific and very tough to explain in our industry.
You know, very, very, this give, give, give mindset is something I, I talked about with a,
with a fellow, with a fellow technical marketers very recently. So someone that started in that
industry and, and so said, hey, Flo, how do, how do I engage in community successfully? And, and I
said, okay, first you have to give. Okay, but when I just show my content, no, no, you don't share
your company. First, you give, first you give, you give first, you give back, you give more,
and you do this repeatedly. And only then, and only the moment she started helping others,
that moment, you can potentially eventually share your content. But even that is not the
rule, right? It's not like, okay, I engaged in, in three posts, I have the right, so I have the
right to share one blog post, there's no rationale here, there's no ratio here. So that's, that,
that's a mindset that is very specific. And, and, yeah, I'm glad that we had this conversation,
because if we could advocate and in this is that is for getting advocate on this, and if there's
one key takeaway to, to get from that conversation is that you have to give first, you have to give
back, you have to give more. And this is only what matters when you, when you engage with developers,
it's to give, to be as helpful as possible. And that's the only thing that matters. And,
and when you have that in mind, and in the show, also the, well, the resources also to,
to play that game, ultimately, that pays off. Yes. It takes time. It does take time. And it's
really interesting, because like you said, right, it's, we're always kind of, well, I mean, obviously
the internet and social media and phones and everything has provided us this, like, we need
results now type of a, you know, mentality. And I think in this space, it's just not something that
is like, yes, you can do different things that are going to drive growth, right? But at the end of
the day, exactly what you said is, is how it operates. I had this, it reminds me, and I need to come
back and revive this piece of content. But I had this piece of content I wrote called the Building
Trust Model. And it was essentially like three steps, right? So the first step was like, do your
research, figure out who that person is, what have they built, what do they do, what do they care about,
like, what are they, what do they seem to be proud of, right? And now, honestly, we probably could
use chat GPT or Claude to like, go and search this for somebody and maybe get answers even easier.
But the first step was research. The second step was provide a value. So for me, that was like,
it didn't mean you had to give them something that was a lot of work, right? But like you and I talked
about even network connections, like, hey, you should meet so and so, or have you been exposed
to this tool? Or would you like to co-create a piece of content, right? Just some form of value
that if you did your research, right, you know exactly what type of a value they can get if
they're on the job market, can you introduce them to people who are hiring, etc. Right. And then the
third step was like, you gave that value, you've nurtured that relationship, you can now finally
make your ask, right? And so it was a lot of actually give a true piece of value before you even ask
for anything in return. And when you do that, right, that true piece of value that was given,
puts them in that place where they're eager to be like, oh, you need help, how can I help you?
And so I think that that's, there's a lot of validity to that to what you're saying, right? And
sort of this give, give, give mentality of being able to finally say, hey, would you like to try
my product or hey, would you like to check out this piece of content or whatever? So yeah.
So I think taking, taking that sort of like grain and vein of conversation and bringing that in,
how do you think about your work when it relates to that? Because you're also very technical,
right? And so you're still building things and bringing things together, but then also driving
growth, right? And so I know personally, when it comes to sort of driving growth and building these
different whatever it is that we're building, right? It is often hard to track those types of
things. So when you are sort of give, give, give, giving, do you have sort of secrets or behind
the scenes things that you do to try to associate some of that giving to maybe some of the results
that are potentially coming from that? Another loaded question. Honestly, I don't know if I,
the secret source here, but at least, at least what I'm trying to do is to first,
okay, when you, when you, when you interact with these people on communities, I want to make sure
that I can measure the fact that the different links I could share, the different resources
that I could share, that those are helpful. And beyond the fact that people could,
people could reply, okay, thank you. I'd like to have a measurable, well, metric.
I think that using a link manager is at least something that I use and that could be also
really helpful for me to understand. Okay. These resources at Clix, it worked, it was helpful,
and I posted it and it works. So that's something, that's one thing. Then when you,
a second thing also is trying to, so, you know, again, when I, when I interact with developers,
I will produce content, actually. And so the idea is to, the problem is that when you do this in,
in communities or on socials, it has a short lifespan. So the, the objective is to convert those
small pieces into kind of a evergreen content or repurpose it somehow. So that's, that's also the,
the building part number two. So one is tracking with, with a link manager and two is
trying to, to have a place somewhere. It doesn't mean that I've already published the, the blog post
or, or, or what, but at least I have a place where I store all the different interactions that,
and all different content that I created. And once, once a week, once a month, you know,
I go through all these, this piece of content, those, those snippets and try to think, okay,
is there, are there any links between all of them, something that I could reuse in
a more evergreen content? And so basically this is, this is the, again, is there's no secret
source here. Those are at least the, the small methods that I'm trying as much as possible to do
in order to, to value that, that work that's giving. So, so yeah, one is tracking the,
the, the, the different resources that I could share and two is making sure that every piece of
content, because it, it has a very small, I like stand trying to, to, to store it somewhere,
somehow and making sure that I could be used later on in more evergreen content.
I love that. Honestly, like, I don't think that anyone really has a secret sauce. Like,
I think as it relates to sort of this work, right, it's like, there's a lot of vibes,
which is really not great, you know, when it comes to sort of reporting some of this,
especially if you're in sort of a developer advocate type of a role, right? I think there are
a variety of different ways to actually start to track it. But when we're talking early stage,
and we're talking dev tools, and really the spaces that you and I are, are driving growth,
right? It's very early, and we're really trying to expand, I shouldn't say it's always early,
you know, you're definitely in different stages and such. But when you're in that stage of trying
to create that, that early audience, right, it really is a lot of, okay, what am I putting out
there? What am I getting back? How can I take what I'm getting back and like, just sort of funnel
that through understanding are there trends? Are there end results? Does it lead to feedback?
If this piece of content landed, like you said, right, sort of those vanity metrics, but vanity
metrics that still very much feed into insights, it's like, how many views did I have on that
piece of content? Because like even my live stream, right, I can go back and be like, wow, okay,
that piece of content, like that guest that came on was like really, really, really fire, right?
And not that they're not all fire, but you know, comparing one to another, and being able to sort
of see those different statistics back and forth. And that gives you sort of that, that sentiment
of like, okay, I should keep going down that path or keep having that conversation or keep
sharing that piece of content. So it is, it's a really interesting sort of game there. The thing
that I've really been trying to dive into the most is like figuring out with a developer engagement,
right, as developers are engaging with each other. Because honestly, like, the thing that has become
the most clear to me throughout sort of my developer relations and kind of developer growth type of a
career is that like developers opt into wanting to use something, be a, because that advocate that
you talked about was like, Oh my gosh, I love this product or tool. And the dev is like, wait, what?
Why do you love it? Tell me about it. Like, I want to know why you think it's great, because we really
very much trust the recommendations of our peers going back to the entire conversation that we've
had, right, the essence of the internet. But then from the other side, there's this opportunity to
like spark a conversation around that pain point. And that's actually what I've been kind of double
down doubling down on throughout my business is like, can I find these use cases for a product
within that use case, there are pain points that come with that, right? And so, like, let's say
for like one of my clients is ArcJet, which is a really cool and I'm just gonna drop it because
I'm like, y'all should check it out. It's for modern JS stacks. And it's very much about a security,
but it's for developers. And so it's about putting those those bits and pieces in there that are
going to ensure you don't have the security issues to begin with. It's like security in that that
actual code. So one of the use cases that we started to work around was actually an AI endpoint
abuse, right? So if someone is coming in, you've created an AI agent, you're kind of opening up
your new AI product, right? And the whole world could come in, obviously, that's not going to
happen right away. But you don't know, right? A bunch of people can come in and maybe they're not
valid users, and they're hitting that endpoint, and they're starting to actually hike up that
infrastructure costs, they're hiking up anything that you have for your actual costs behind the
scenes. And so I've started to pivot to, can I find conversations that are around this pain
point, like spam abuse or like form abuse, someone just tweeted about form abuse. And I was like,
Hey, you should check out Arcjet. And I actually think that that has has landed to be the most
lucrative path to trying to deliver that content. But still, like, how do you track that, right?
You're in a conversation, you're in this piece of engagement. And really, like at the end of the
day, we're, we're still just trying to have these meaningful conversations inside of community. And
it's, like you said, it's a it's a long game. So anyways, I don't know where I was going with that,
but I thought that you'd, you'd have some opinions and thoughts on that, because I think it's,
it's, it's been an interesting angle for sure. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.
Okay, so we are nearing our time. The question that I like to ask at the end, and, you know, we got
pretty deep into some really fun work that I don't always get to talk about. But I like to ask
developers or guess how they solve their problems, right? Like we have a variety of different things
that we do when we get stuck on something, whether we're writing code, whether we're planning it,
whether we're whatever it is that we're doing. And everyone sort of has a different answer. So I
would love to hear when you're stuck on something, technically, what is your path to get unstuck?
Honestly, right now, I'm really excited by the, the new wave of AI products. And so basically,
the moment I'm stuck into something, I'm just trying to find if there's, there's an AI way to
yeah, to help me solve this. And again, it's trying to, it's probably not the most
um, another way to solve it, but at least, you know, it helps me go fast. And it helps me
quickly identify what, what could go possibly go wrong. And, and at least with that first insight,
then I could start digging a lot more into, into the code to trying to understand what could
possibly be wrong and, and how it could solve the problem. Yeah, I love that. I hear that answer
a lot, honestly. And I think it's, it's good though, because I think it allows and sort of
expands the understanding for all of us, but we all are kind of using AI in some way, shape, or form
to really help us get unstuck. So when you do that, what are sort of your tools of choice? Or
are there different tools that you use for different reasons?
Well, nothing, nothing very, no magic here. Honestly, I'm a big user of Raycast. And I'm a,
I'm a pro user. And what's really interesting is that you can play around with different models.
And, and so I really like it. And then I'm a Zed user. So that's my type of, of code editor.
And so I rely on this. So most of the time I have my, my dual screen setup was one side,
my code editor, and the other side, a, may I chat with, with Raycast and I'm, I'm mixing between
those two in order to, well, yeah, trying to, to, to solve the different provenance that I could have.
I love that. What's your IDE of choice?
That's, that's honestly Zed works great. And I, you know, I, I experimented with,
well, I have a long experience with this code, I experimented with cursor.
But I also enjoy beautifully crafted products. So when I'm, when I build my stack, I also,
I pick a product that's helped me do my stuff. But I'm also trying to find a product that's
inspired you inspire me doing and building better products too. And so personally, I'm quite happy
with Zed. I love the, the, the polished interface and, and yeah.
Well, that is good to know. I have never heard of Zed. So apparently I'm like under a rock when
it comes to Zed. So I'm going to have to check that out. But see, like a developer, right? I'm like,
okay, I got to go check out Raycast. I know what Raycast is, but I need to go think about Raycast
more and what is Zed, right? So like this conversation alone is like, left me to think
about it. And I think that's why I like to ask this question at the end is like, either we're
learning some tips or tricks about how developers are asking their peers or finding different
techniques. One person was like, Oh yeah, I talked to Claude like audibly while I'm on a walk. And
I'm like, how smart is that? And like, he has Claude sort of interview him so that he can get
some results at the end of it, right? Or it's like the AI tool answer, which I think is always
really beautiful too. We're, we're definitely finding and evolving and how we're like solving
our problems. And I think it's, it's just always interesting to hear how other people are doing
the same. This has been a lovely conversation. Our pre conversation was great. It's always great
to chat with you. I'm excited about things that we get to partner. Yeah, things we get to partner
on throughout the rest of the year. So if anyone is listening and they need DevTool growth, you've
got the two, two of many amazing developer growth people in one single place. So on that note,
where can folks find you if they want to find you and reach out to you? So probably the easiest
way would be to, to reach out on, um, either LinkedIn or Twitter X and, uh, and also you could
join, uh, you could join my community. It's a, it's a slight group, uh, nice people. So still
2000 people, but still, still quite, um, small and, uh, and very friendly. Uh, so it's marketing
to dev, um, join anytime and, uh, and say hi. Yes, you should. It's an absolutely amazing community.
I am in there not as active as I probably should be, but definitely an amazing community. Um, and
also launch week.dev. Go check that out. Yeah. Yes. I love it. Okay. Well, this has been such a
fabulous conversation. Um, I hope that folks reach out to you. You are an amazing human. Um, and I
hope that everyone has, uh, I hope that everyone has a fabulous rest of their new year, but also day.
Absolutely. Enjoy your day and thank you so much for the conversation.
This, uh, of course, absolutely.