1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,320 there. Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome, Jason. Oh, hi. We are hanging 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:12,960 out this morning, holiday edition style. missing. Yes, I 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,480 love this decor. I know, isn't it cute? It was inside of 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,440 restream and I was like, Oh, look at that. Love that for us. I 5 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,960 know. I dressed up for you. Yes, you did. I couldn't find my 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,840 Chewbacca Christmas sweater. So sadly, I'm in just in plain black, 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:34,120 but not a very chewy Christmas at this point. Not a chewy 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,640 Christmas. Oh, that's unfortunate. It's great sweater 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:42,200 too. I am so excited that you're here. I'm excited to be here. 10 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:47,320 Yay, good. We had talked about not doing this date, like, are 11 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,640 people going to come, whatever. And I think that at the end of 12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,400 the day, there are a lot of us right now, if you are still 13 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,080 working, right, anyone who may still be working, you're sort 14 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,400 of like checked out. This is like the last day that you're 15 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,120 probably working. Maybe you're only working half a day and 16 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:06,640 you're just like, I'm checked out. Or maybe you were checked out 17 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,760 last Friday, and now you are spending time with family and 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,080 you'd love to get some time away. That was our theory anyway. 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,720 So hopefully, that ends up being the case. So someone's in 20 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,160 the chat already. Ryan, hello. 21 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,360 Hey, it's Ryan. Our buddy. Yes. 22 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,680 Me and Ryan worked on a fun project this past week by fun. I 23 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:31,480 mean, it wasn't. It was like, really complicated. Tell me 24 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,400 about it. We found a lot of headaches and pain points in a 25 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:40,160 specific product that we were trying to build a project with. 26 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:46,120 And their docs need some work. It's, yeah, it's, it was, it was 27 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,440 a challenge. I don't want to get too much into it just in case 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,280 it comes across someone's desk, but their docs need help. So if 29 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,480 anybody's interested in doing some doc work for a company, I'll 30 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,720 just pass me a message and I'll send you their info. 31 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,480 Okay, so follow up question. We don't want to roast someone 32 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,440 because we've all been there, right? Where we've had rough 33 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,040 docs, we just either it's earlier things have evolved, right? 34 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:15,400 Yeah, we did. We did. It was Pandora's box when we, when we 35 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,720 got into it, but we figured it out. We ultimately we did get 36 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,000 our project put together. We wrote a blog post about it. It 37 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,840 was very positive, but we all collectively decided that once the 38 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:32,080 contest is over, we will give some feedback on everything. So 39 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,600 so that's what I would love to hear as you and we're going to 40 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,360 get into this right. So actually, you know what, before you 41 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,280 answer that question, why don't you introduce yourself? Let's 42 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,280 tell everyone who you are, where you work, sort of what you 43 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:46,840 do. Yeah. So hi, everybody. I'm Jason Torres, community 44 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,400 evangelist at torque.dev. I work with one of my homies that 45 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,520 some of you are probably familiar with Taylor Dessen. It's 46 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:59,760 my boss. So so weird to say. Great dude, though. He's building a 47 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:05,960 team of superheroes around his concept of DevRel for recruiting 48 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,760 or like the talent side of the industry. Oh, hey, look at that. 49 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:15,840 There he is speaking. Hey, Zeres must have been ringing. But I 50 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,360 am super proud of everything he's putting together there and 51 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,680 allowing me to like just be myself in the position and 52 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,120 growing this community. We've had just dumb growth in the last 53 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,480 couple months. I mean, we've almost tripled at this point, 54 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,680 the the size of the discord signups for the platform have 55 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,920 been through the roof. So everything is moving on the 56 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:44,320 uptick positively. It's just been fun. It's been fun. I have a 57 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,360 background in film. I spent 15 years in the film industry and 58 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,720 then transitioned over to tech where I started to started to be 59 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,000 a self taught developer and decided that I like to code. But 60 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,440 I also like being language agnostic and that I'm still 61 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,400 touching tech where I am. But I can play with any toys I want. I 62 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,360 can build with whatever I want. We just did an astro project. 63 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,400 Like that was my first time and thankfully Ryan was able to 64 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,040 help because I had no clue what I was doing, but it was fun. It 65 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,360 was fun. Like I love that font to like to still have the 66 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,640 enjoyment of doing it as opposed to like being an engineer 67 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,400 every day all day every day and hating it. So I feel like I'm 68 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,400 really in a great spot. Yes, that's me. That's me. I love 69 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,000 that so much. I have like a couple of follow ups there. 70 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,200 Awesome. I am so excited to hear about the results that you're 71 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,040 seeing and not at all shocked by it because like I told I told 72 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,600 Taylor when we were at commit your code, I was like, you are 73 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,720 killing it. You are literally killing it at DevRel and how 74 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,840 you are approaching this angle and what you're building over 75 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:52,760 there and um told him how smart he was to hire you. Obviously, 76 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,840 we all know that though. He is smart for you. Obviously. 77 00:04:56,840 --> 00:05:01,400 Obviously. Um but the thing is is like y'all are winning and 78 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,200 y'all are succeeding because you are investing in that 79 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,120 developer community and you're not just putting money towards 80 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,680 a sponsorship. You are literally showing up doing the hard 81 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,120 work building meaningful relationships and making sure 82 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,240 that you are truly engaging with those relationships and 83 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:24,520 that's like how you do DevRel in my opinion. I in you know um 84 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,080 in for anybody that doesn't know, I mean I've known Tessa for a 85 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,120 little while. We just met in person though fortunately which 86 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,240 was awesome. Um had a lot of really great conversations but 87 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,960 I think her and I align on that concept of how you build 88 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,240 communities and develop. It doesn't even need to be we say 89 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,880 developer communities because this is the industry we work in 90 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:48,440 but at the end of the day like these are transferable methods 91 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,880 uh across any industry as far as engaging with people and 92 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,000 and networking and building communities and it is. It's about 93 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,600 the people. Like I'm not at the end of the day. I want 94 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,520 everybody to get something out of their contact with me. I 95 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:07,240 don't know what that is. I I can't tell you but it it 96 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,960 ultimately it it should be something positive. Like 97 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,640 that's that's paying it for that's building in a positive way 98 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,680 because that impact is then going to positively impact 99 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,480 somebody else and so on and so forth and again that's like 100 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:25,240 growth. So um I totally agree with you. I I love what we're 101 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:30,360 doing. I love the energy um and and I hope that it keeps 102 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,240 going but we're we're doing really crazy things and we have a 103 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:39,720 big plan for 2025. Um I'm excited to see what happens. So oh 104 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,320 my gosh. I love that so much. So I posted this quote over the 105 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,720 weekend. Um I was watching Klaus. If anyone has never 106 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,160 watched Klaus on Netflix. Amazing show. It's about this 107 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,600 kid. He was spoiled rich kid and he needs to go build a post 108 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:57,080 office in this awful town. Um and so there's this guy right 109 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,720 and his name is Klaus and he ends up sort of they end up 110 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,120 sort of mimicking and building and it actually makes me 111 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,160 question is this how Santa came to be? So check it out. 112 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,120 Klaus is a great movie. Um one of my 16 year olds favorite 113 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,280 holiday movie honestly. Um but yeah I know right. He has he 114 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,120 has maintained it through all of his childhood and still 115 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,120 really well. That's impressive. Yeah. The I've seen I've seen 116 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,840 the trailer. Interesting wreck though. Or is this sponsored 117 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,400 by Netflix? Are we being sponsored by Netflix right now? 118 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,720 No, no we're not but hey maybe but what I wanted to get to is 119 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,160 what I posted. So what I posted was a true act of 120 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,760 selflessness sparks another and I think like Jason 121 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,440 honestly if I really had to speak to this over the last 122 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,320 year I would say that you would be the person that would 123 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,200 really truly shine bright in my ecosystem in my network of 124 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,640 like someone who really is like who is handing out those 125 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,320 acts of selflessness and not even thinking about yourself 126 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,760 whatsoever really just handing those out and I think that 127 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,280 that is the beautiful thing about what you're seeing the 128 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,720 results that y'all are seeing what you're doing and so 129 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,960 you're it's just going to keep going because of your very 130 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,120 beautiful acts of selflessness. Well, I appreciate that. I 131 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,920 and it's funny you you mentioned that because it's like I 132 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,400 don't know. I don't I don't think about how it's going to 133 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,400 affect me except for like the I guess the karma aspect. Um I 134 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,920 was just at low so like right before we got on um I had a 135 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,120 couple errands to run and there was a couple that was 136 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,880 outside. They were looking at these like $20 trees that 137 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,560 were out there but I had to pick up point setters so I ran 138 00:08:33,560 --> 00:08:37,080 inside and I bought a gift card and I gave it to them so 139 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,960 that they could buy the tree. It's like I don't know these 140 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,840 people but it was like hey if that little moment right there 141 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,600 made their day like I don't know what happened to the 142 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,880 tree. I don't know why they need it but who cares? So 143 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:52,120 hopefully again that that pays that forward uh for somebody 144 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,960 else. Okay so you and I need to hang out somewhere and like 145 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,000 do some crazy like you know Mr Beast level stuff where we 146 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,120 can get some like sponsorships and then just give stuff out 147 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,640 because I'm doing stuff like that. Same my husband and I 148 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,480 will go around and do this as much as we can and I will say 149 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,400 like this Christmas I'm getting a little teary eyed but only 150 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,040 because of like this beautiful holiday spirit you know. 151 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,680 Yeah. Like it was a hard year like starting a business is 152 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:19,800 hard and it wasn't that it was like ridiculously hard but 153 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,640 you know like nonetheless difficult right and normally 154 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:25,640 we give and give and give and actually we take our kids 155 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,360 shopping so they can buy stuff for other kids and then we go 156 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,440 give those gifts to those children or bring them to the 157 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,920 church or whatever wherever it is that we're doing it is 158 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,160 it's usually our church and we just we did not have the 159 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,400 privilege of being able to do that this year and it was 160 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,120 just sort of broke my heart a little but I think at the end 161 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,600 of the day like these these little acts and these little 162 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,880 actions whether they're big or small really just help people 163 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:49,560 feel like that and someone bought me a coffee the other 164 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:51,800 day and like I'm normally the one doing the giving and the 165 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,760 buying and so I was like you know what I really like really 166 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,320 really needed this and so it was just this absolutely 167 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,920 beautiful thing so no I love doing stuff like that and I 168 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:06,760 mean this year we did the stuff for work but I guess the 169 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:12,360 background on that like me and my brother in person here near 170 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,920 near where we live we would do a big like event for the 171 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,800 open door mission and we would get with a bunch of 172 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,960 companies they'd give us a bunch of things we'd give them 173 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,880 away for for raffles they could buy raffle tickets to win 174 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,840 stuff every day but with the pandemic and everything we 175 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,600 stopped doing that so I had message Taylor because I was 176 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,440 like look I'm going to buy with my own money like a bunch 177 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,080 gift cards to give away in the torque stuff just to like do 178 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,640 an event and he's like no I'll you know like we'll we'll take 179 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,760 care of it but I like I ran out of gift cards like I gave 180 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,760 them all away and I felt guilty so I bought a bunch of other 181 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,600 gift cards to give everybody else that didn't it's like 182 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,400 some of the people got Starbucks gift cards I had to buy a 183 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,600 couple extra Amazon gift cards but I didn't I know he's 184 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:06,280 going to give me crap about that but you know I don't it's 185 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,040 just money like I can't take it with me yes that was like a 186 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,160 catalyst for some positive for somebody especially around 187 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,560 Christmas it's like I don't know it's it's a no-brainer so 188 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:21,880 yeah I'm the same way I'm the same way yeah okay so we got to 189 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,640 we chatted quite a bit about you I know right Taylor yeah 190 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:31,080 sorry dude that beautiful heart okay so you were talking about 191 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,640 kind of bringing it back you're in trouble yeah that's why 192 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,640 why didn't tell you yeah because he's like no you don't need to do that 193 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,240 anyways I get it as a manager like I get it okay so you were speaking 194 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,560 about how you and Ryan who's in the chat 195 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:49,960 love you Ryan glad you're here um we're working on a project over the weekend 196 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,400 and then the documentation is really difficult so I think let's actually 197 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,040 talk about that because you know there's lots of different questions I dive 198 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,320 into what are you building you know how did what does your day-to-day look like 199 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,720 and I think that you can actually shed a great deal of light on 200 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,000 why did they suck like what happened in the documentation what were you not 201 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,280 able to do and if you don't want to give away sort of all the you know bits and 202 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:15,400 nuggies to sort of unveil who it was totally understand but you know was it 203 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:20,040 oftentimes it's like you go in it's like one one person recently for example I 204 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,600 was looking at a getting started guide and I started doing the getting started 205 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,600 guide and I literally couldn't even get forward in the getting started guide to 206 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,760 actually get to the thing that I wanted to do 207 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,600 so I would love to hear what were your issues what were kind of the struggles 208 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:37,160 and maybe what do you think would have been a better path for them to take to 209 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:42,120 resolve it sure so I think you and you kind of hit the nail on the head and 210 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:47,640 the way I look at documentation sometimes like I will never say that I am an 211 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:53,160 advanced developer by any means like I think that documentation however should 212 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,800 have tiers like a new user should be able to comfortably come in and 213 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,960 spend something up without too much complication then there should be a tier 214 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,400 for more advanced users that want to really deep dive the infrastructure and 215 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,880 like do whatever they need to do and be able to find something like if I 216 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,520 specifically get an error message that is related to your database your 217 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:19,640 framework or whatever it is I should be able to search that and be able to get 218 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,000 information about it in your platform 219 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:28,440 we had to enlist the help of another person that you know very well 220 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,120 chris and wiki because neither of us are right now 221 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,600 Ryan and myself aren't super familiar with back end and we brought chris in 222 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:41,880 and chris could not figure it out and that like again that's a pretty big 223 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,000 testament because you know how good chris is 224 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,240 yep he struggled being able to figure it out too 225 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,400 fully believe in tiered document yeah saying it for years I totally agree so 226 00:13:53,400 --> 00:14:00,040 we ended up having to because we could not connect our query to 227 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,680 the database the right way something with regex 228 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:11,480 we ended up having to pull the database uh up to the client side and do the 229 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,320 search on the client side so we ended up having to add additional script 230 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:22,040 to do that as opposed to just running a call to the database for the specific 231 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,560 like query um should not have been that complicated 232 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:31,320 right again way out of my wheelhouse um they are also glad to help 233 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:36,840 edges I was that as that chris I don't know I feel like it's swift 234 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,600 it might be chris swift oh chris if I had to make a guess 235 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,600 whoever it is the linkedin user I know it's we can only see linkedin user so I 236 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,800 can tell you who it wasn't it wasn't taylor 237 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,800 it's true because he's connected yeah um but 238 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:58,280 I think again like people uh any any any sort of org should have 239 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,840 documentation that on that first page somebody should within five minutes be 240 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:08,840 able to start using a product I agree like I got so confused and again I'm 241 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,400 asking for help and three of us could not figure it out and ended up having to 242 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,240 go with an alternate method because we couldn't even determine whether their 243 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,680 database was able to do what we wanted which again 244 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:25,640 shouldn't be a problem yep so you know again adding all these extra steps 245 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,160 does not optimize efficiency on a website either 246 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:37,640 so um yeah that our speed thing because I um wrapped our thing in a container 247 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:44,120 versus else got like a speed check oh you can watch the um the processing on the 248 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:50,280 site it's like a c at this point because we're just it it's not clean code 249 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,280 it's yeah it's just it's bad so um moving forward I 250 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:58,520 think that that's going to be some of the suggestions uh that we offer as far as 251 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,120 like maybe efficiency and being able to find like 252 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,360 troubleshooting tips again like if you're dealing with a specific problem with a 253 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,840 specific product you should be able to locate that and maybe it's 254 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,280 something that people haven't seen before so there should be a better workflow 255 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,120 for somebody that does have an issue like that as to how they can address it 256 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:23,240 um I agree yeah but something that probably should have taken us a couple 257 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,840 days between the three of us that literally took us all week and that's 258 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,160 also issues with time too because this was just for fun 259 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:37,560 um yeah but it's done it's hard to dive into some of those issues 260 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,000 when you're doing projects like that for fun honestly so like 261 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,080 I've been I've been trying to like you know start installing some things and 262 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,880 dabbling into some different projects and I'll spend you know half an hour 263 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,880 whatever sort of diving into something um and it's not enough time right and so 264 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,960 when when you don't code all day or if you don't get the privilege to say hey 265 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:00,040 I'm done with my day job right I get to go just play in code 266 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,240 um it can be really painful because you're sort of stuck in this issue and 267 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,000 then you're like okay well let me just write down what I was doing at the 268 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,040 last moment that I was thinking about this in some capacity so you can come 269 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:15,960 back to it which honestly never ever ever works never works no um so Ryan 270 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,480 added a comment in the docs or sorry in the chat about the docs that we were 271 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,600 just talking about and how they were wrong and I just wanted to 272 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,240 for anyone that might be listening when this isn't a podcast version or might 273 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,720 be listening now I think that's one of the really 274 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,600 sort of key things and so since we're talking about devrel I'm gonna kind of 275 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,560 just drop this really quickly because I wanted to sort of sort of share this 276 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,160 wisdom a little bit but um there's four buckets that I 277 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,520 look at when I look at devrel and they all sit on top of one very 278 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,640 important bucket and that important bucket is problem fit understanding 279 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,480 what pain points developers have and that your solution solves those pain 280 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,760 points but who has them right and who will pay for them 281 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,040 is sort of what I consider that problem fit and then there's these four you know 282 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,640 look at it like squares right this and on top discoverability credibility 283 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:02,840 aha moment advocacy advocacy is not developer advocacy that's customer 284 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,360 advocacy so discoverability and credibility is very much what we see 285 00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:09,240 in the developer advocate type of role they're out driving awareness they're 286 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,440 out building credibility building a brand name reputation 287 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,040 that's those two boxes these bottom two boxes are aha moment and the customer 288 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,400 advocacy did the customer get to the value that they wanted are they out 289 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,760 there talking about your product and using it so someone actually in the chat 290 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,160 talked about how they joined torque they didn't find it before 291 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,000 that's customer advocacy right that's the end result that you want from devrel 292 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,520 you want them talking about what you're doing but what you were just referring 293 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,280 to with that documentation is that aha moment bucket and whatever platform 294 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,880 you are using they are lacking in that aha moment bucket and that is 295 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,720 honestly one of the most important although all four are very important 296 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,840 developers have to find you then when they find you they have to trust you 297 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,560 do you have credibility then they have to reach that moment of like oh my gosh 298 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,080 I know what I'm going to build I know how I'm going to build it and the docs 299 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,240 have to paint that picture so what I wanted to share briefly is how much 300 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,760 and how important it is to spend time on those documentations your website and 301 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,360 your homepage can be crap your marketing messaging can be crap but if you 302 00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:09,960 have good docs and a good community platform where developers can go ask 303 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,960 questions and engage with their peers boom slam dunk you can leave that 304 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,280 marketing website as trashy as you want for likely a very long amount of time 305 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,880 if you are nailing these other cases because most developers come to a 306 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,320 website they go to the documentation then they go to integrations because they 307 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,160 want to know do you partner with what I already build with and is it going to 308 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,840 be easy for me to get started and they want to find a getting started guide 309 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,760 I could not agree with you more and I feel like 310 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:41,640 everybody over in the chat at least like I saw Nick Taylor's here Ryan 311 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:47,160 Chris everybody they're very doc heavy they're very technical they want that 312 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:52,760 but documentation too and again to speak to what you were just saying 313 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:58,440 all of those tiers they have to have multiple levels of them because again 314 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,760 you're going to pigeonhole yourself into being like only for for senior devs like 315 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,160 your your content's too technical like you're cutting off a huge part of the 316 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:12,360 market by not having content that get or documentation that gives that a ha moment 317 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:17,800 for a newer developer yep I'm not going to want to go and use that product again 318 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:23,320 exactly I will totally say that so you know again that's not that's not 319 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:28,680 necessarily a knock against the product but as a newer user a newer developer 320 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:33,240 I want products that have the documentation that I can have that a ha moment that you 321 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,840 spoke of and I definitely did not get that 322 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:46,520 at all I got a lot of ah shoot not shoot though exactly exactly and I will say 323 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,720 too just to add just like a little layer onto what you said because you 324 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:54,840 basically said sort of this is that there are sort of I'm going to say there 325 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,040 are two approaches but honestly there's a million approaches but I look at it in 326 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,560 sort of two different ways that you're building out ecosystems for developers 327 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,240 one way is self-serve right devs need to be able to go on their own get the 328 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,000 documentation do the thing read the things understand them and build which 329 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,880 is exactly what you're referring to yeah then there's sort of this other 330 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,520 approach right where you're going after those enterprise developers you're 331 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,320 going after those senior levels maybe you're going 332 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,240 after fintech and healthcare companies and so it's always a sales demo it's an 333 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,600 enterprise sales motion and you're going to have different 334 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:29,080 documentation but here's the thing about that if you are in this enterprise 335 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,080 sales motion bucket you are still going to have developers who are like jason 336 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:37,560 who are like ryan who are like no wiki who are like myself who are going to come 337 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,480 in and who might need additional contacts or additional information and 338 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,840 they're not going to fall into that same skill level that that you think that 339 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,600 you're covering right and so that documentation whether your target 340 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,040 audience is highest enterprise devs at 341 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:56,200 extremely regulated companies you still need some form of self-serve 342 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,560 documentation even if it's behind a login wall if that's what you have to do 343 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,720 but it has to exist so the developers can come in and find those resources 344 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:08,040 I don't mind setting up an account like I don't mind doing the steps 345 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:14,920 at all but I get super pissed if I set up the account and I start to do 346 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,440 something and then I hit a wall right because now I just I'm 347 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,040 I know I'm going to get your marketing emails you have no problem sending me 348 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,280 those but you seem to have a problem getting me to 349 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:31,240 actually use the product like functionally for what I need so 350 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:38,760 not cool not cool not cool man okay so let's dive into you 351 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,520 at torque obviously you're doing a variety of different things and so what 352 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:47,640 is your day-to-day look like honestly it kind of varies 353 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,920 and it looks like it's probably going to change a little bit going into the new 354 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,680 year too just because we're you know kind of changing things up I think 355 00:22:54,680 --> 00:23:00,280 we were we were feeling out a lot of the process in the end of this year 356 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,480 seeing what worked seeing what didn't so typically 357 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,400 Mondays we'll do like a team we have a team meeting 358 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:13,560 do our stand-up I'll just get into work it's a lot of planning to and it's also 359 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:21,480 a lot of engagement I am in the discord all the time writing my own content 360 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,160 we'll be getting some blog posts out so a lot of it's just like sitting right 361 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,880 here and and talking to people in the community 362 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:35,320 and then I will do a stream I think I'm gonna kind of shift the schedule of 363 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,960 that a little bit next year but we do like a Monday Wednesday Friday 364 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:45,880 Mondays it's just casual we talk about like current events and stuff like that 365 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:51,240 things that are going on and then again that's engaging with the community and 366 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,240 topics will come up and we'll get into that we've been talking a lot about like 367 00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:01,400 jobs and planning 2025 for yourself which again is super important 368 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:07,880 we've done like resume stuff portfolio stuff just things to help people kind 369 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,040 of progress and you know we've been very Taylor and I have been very candid with 370 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:16,840 any discussions we have like 10% of the people on our platform that sign up 371 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:22,200 will qualify for one of the roles that I have it's just it's the numbers but 372 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,680 that's incredible honestly and it really is and we actually have had a ton of 373 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:31,400 people get picked up even in the last week because we get updates all the time 374 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:37,320 yes which yeah which is awesome but we want to be able to provide a place for 375 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,160 you for other resources so that's what our community is really driven to is like 376 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:46,200 I want to I want to have educational stuff I want to have stuff around the job 377 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,440 just general community networking and that's that's what our Fridays are for 378 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,520 we do a stream on Fridays the lunch networking thing everybody drops all 379 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,920 their socials in there we're just we're engaging we're talking about stuff 380 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:05,560 and again building I mean we've seen like 300% growth on everything because 381 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,000 you know I don't have a product to sell you I'm not pushing that and I think 382 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,960 that really also helps me because I don't like doing sales 383 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:20,200 so I can just organically sell just being a part of something where 384 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,520 everybody's picking everybody up everybody's helping 385 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,960 and yeah it's been awesome and it's nice not having like hours so it's like I'll 386 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,800 do a little bit of work at night you should go down and help my kid with 387 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,560 his schoolwork because we homeschooled Jack 388 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,720 and yeah do some meetings we always have team meetings 389 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,560 but I think that's good too it's because you want to be aligned on everything 390 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,800 in our Slack we do morning check-ins every day 391 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,400 which kind of breaks down what everybody's day looks like 392 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:59,880 a lot of one-on-ones me and my associate who's like my dot my my Mexico me 393 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,960 hema is we're trying to get some content to do 394 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,080 together very cool so we've got a lot of planning 395 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:12,120 coming up but yeah it's you're gonna see a lot of torque a lot of torque in your 396 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:16,040 face next year which is good that's beautiful 397 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,840 yeah that's how it's supposed to be and I think you know what what y'all are 398 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,160 doing is like it's beautiful right it's like 399 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,360 there are there's a variety of people looking for work and right now is a 400 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:30,760 really really hard time to be looking for work um depending on what your skill 401 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,600 that right there are some really great opportunities out there right now 402 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,000 but at the same time we're seeing a lot of office work and I think that that's 403 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,280 making it really difficult for people who have chosen to become remote or to 404 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,600 work somewhere else and so I think we're definitely seeing this huge flux and 405 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,280 sort of where the job market is going and where people are 406 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,280 both physically existing and also you know intellectually 407 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,960 you know contributing and all those things torque in your face yeah I know 408 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,480 as soon as I said that I was waiting for somebody I was like god 409 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:06,040 no I have I struggle with sometimes like I I'm like why why did I just say that 410 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,320 I immediately know when someone's gonna be like oh geez 411 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,640 um good friends right good friends because you've built developer 412 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,400 engagement literally everywhere you go no and and that's the thing like 413 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,480 I that's what I want everybody to feel like yeah I want everybody to feel 414 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,880 welcome and feel like we're their friend because we are again I don't 415 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,440 my goal again I'm not selling you anything I don't have a product that you 416 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,600 can buy it is us it is being part of the community and if 417 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,960 somebody ends up getting a job or somebody just feels welcome 418 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:44,200 um Taylor's been kind of he always is like trying new catchphrases and crap 419 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:50,040 like that like you know you know like they um but uh what is it's like uh 420 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:55,080 you're you're not alone right like yeah we're a community to help you through 421 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,880 this process um because it is hard so you know we have some people that are 422 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:04,200 struggling with some stuff and they come in and they talk about it and we try to 423 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,720 give them some direction it sometimes they're not there for direction they 424 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:14,120 just want to hear like ah that sucks but yeah let it out right so I think your 425 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,960 Friday networking is really interesting too because oftentimes um you know 426 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,080 developers and I will say we didn't get this essence that commit your code but 427 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,840 we can kind of get to why that is in a second here but oftentimes you know we've 428 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,200 we have all these different sort of personality you know archetypes or 429 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,480 types in the developer ecosystem and people like to say that we're anti 430 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,000 social but at the end of the day we are actually the most social human beings 431 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,080 around um it's just that we don't really care for people who aren't like us and 432 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:44,040 we don't do that in a mean way it's just we like to talk about the technical 433 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,160 problem-solving space right we want to dive in and we want to talk tech with 434 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,880 our friends we want to talk about what they're building and what they're 435 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,640 doing and anything in the ecosystem and really just someone that we can relate 436 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,600 to right and I think that's very normal we all want to hang out with people who are 437 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:02,600 like us right and but I think that also in our ecosystem we can find people who 438 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:08,280 are who are shy or who you know don't necessarily uh find it easy to come out 439 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,680 of their shell and I think that that's a really beautiful way to do that I think 440 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,440 commit your code as I was saying is also did a really beautiful job at that 441 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,120 because most times when I go to a conference and I don't necessarily 442 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,680 know everybody I can actually find myself sort of like dissipating back into 443 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,440 the distance and I'm a very outgoing person right you've met me in person 444 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,840 many people have met me um but it's just like the sort of like okay it's a lot 445 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,520 it's overwhelming um and I think conferences can be a beautiful place to 446 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,600 do that but yet can also sort of be a very darkening place too if you don't 447 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,680 find that little crew um and I think that commit your code and the networking 448 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,320 sessions that you're doing are different right they're bringing 449 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,720 developers together and I think this this community goodness of really like 450 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,920 authentically getting to the roots and saying like no seriously 451 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,760 it's the Pac-Man theory here like we don't just close these circles 452 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,680 everyone is always welcome in these circles um and I just think it's beautiful 453 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,640 I think that that is exactly what our ecosystem means especially right now 454 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,480 with everything that's going on economically in our world but also in the 455 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:18,600 job market right how do you feel like I mean obviously like sort of um 456 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,680 you know your role coming in to torque it's like it's a little fresh hitting 457 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,960 all these events have you sort of noticed the same essence at some of the other 458 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:31,480 events that you've been going to or um what do you think on that yeah that's 459 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:37,000 yes and no I mean I think it really depends on the the event specifically 460 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:43,800 um you know we were at all things open and that one felt a little different 461 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,240 because again it's everybody kind of runs in packs 462 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,480 in things like that where this one without necessarily having like the 463 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,200 massive hallway track where everything is separated it felt more intimate so it 464 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,600 feels like everybody was like there together as opposed to just there at a 465 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:05,640 conference with other things even render render is massive 466 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:11,080 it's hard to get that sort of a vibe that commit your code has or anything where 467 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,240 it's like you know everybody's a lot closer it's quieter 468 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,560 yep so the energy is just very different um 469 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,080 not that that said it doesn't mean that there aren't positive takeaways from 470 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:29,400 the larger events but again something like commit your code was just like 471 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:36,280 perfect for networking and being like face to face with people 472 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,600 I love doing the the virtual meetups too because I feel like it's like a real 473 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,760 good gateway for people to like get a little bit of confidence to do something 474 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:50,520 in person we're gonna try to do some meetups around 475 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:57,560 conferences coming up in 2025 as well so I'm hoping again like the 476 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:02,760 build-up of the community virtually will get more people to these meetups when 477 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:08,440 we come to the different conferences which is gonna just give more people 478 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:13,080 like opportunities you know there's only so much that you can do 479 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:18,040 here on the screen like that next step even and again you don't have to be 480 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,000 extroverted you don't have to be like outgoing but 481 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:26,280 there's so much more for these people to gain by just being able to go out and 482 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:31,160 do stuff and if we give them that opportunity of 483 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,400 doing the virtual things on Fridays or doing this and that like 484 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,840 helps them build up the confidence to go out and like go to their first 485 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:44,280 conference and maybe find a new job find a new friend like there's again 486 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,880 that's that's how it pays pays it forward for me 487 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,880 so I want to be able to give that to everybody 488 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:57,080 I love that absolutely love that about you and that's why you're so great 489 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,080 follow-up sort of like thought around that you know I think it's actually 490 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,880 interesting in what when you at commit your code 491 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,920 torque brought together a lunch networking event the day before the 492 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,200 conference started yeah and I thought that was really really really cool and 493 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,400 I think you know when you start to think about that those are actually like 494 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,640 the most beautiful events for people who are a little bit 495 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,480 shy or maybe just like don't come out of their shell as easily or just don't 496 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:26,360 have a pack right as you said that they run with yeah in normal times and I 497 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,680 did meet someone at commit your code who was like that and he's like I don't 498 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,960 really know anybody and I was like hang with me you'll know everybody pretty 499 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,000 soon right yeah and so it's just not everybody but a 500 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,360 lot of people and so it's just like doing those things and your events are 501 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,240 actually building that beautifully and so that is actually something to sort of 502 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,360 like raise awareness to like as conference organizers or even event 503 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,960 organizers are there sort of pre virtual things that we can do to let 504 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,680 people start to meet each other maybe it's just a couple days beforehand 505 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:55,000 before people are traveling hey I'm so and so kind of icebreaker 506 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,760 networking give them this chance to like use the 507 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,400 the keyboard and the screen to hide behind but yet meet people 508 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,760 and then be able to come and engage and that is very much 509 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,960 you know what y'all are doing and I think it's absolutely amazing 510 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:16,360 yeah I like that as the kind of the the precursor to events you know building 511 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,400 up and like making plans with people we did that in the 512 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:24,520 100 devs discord as well you know because this was an opportunity Leon was 513 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,960 going to be at come at your code and a bunch of us 514 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,760 were also able to be there so you know again we've a lot of us had never met 515 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,480 so we set it up in the discord and built built that momentum and the excitement 516 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,840 and then we all you know I don't think actually I don't think we ever got all 517 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,960 like hung out like we were planning on but we did 518 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,960 get a picture so that was that was cool and it was hard because I was only there 519 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:54,440 for the one day anyways but yeah yeah I think that that's such a great idea and 520 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,600 I Ryan had mentioned that wasn't the first time Taylor's done that either and I 521 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,800 think that it's it's really a great way again for people to just meet in a I 522 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:09,000 don't want to say safer but like just it is out of the conference yep 523 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,000 away from the conference because the conference is very different 524 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,840 yeah especially again at the bigger ones all things open like render 525 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,080 that energy and try like my brain goes nuts like I 526 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,880 can handle it but some people can't so it's like 527 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,000 yeah it gives them a step away where they can still 528 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:36,200 engage and meet yeah I like that he does that and there'll be more of those I 529 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:40,040 think that that's going to be one of our initiatives going into 2025 is not 530 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,720 even necessarily sponsoring events but like just 531 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:48,600 holding more meetups for opportunities like that yep yeah 532 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,440 I am okay I've got two more questions I want to ask but the one thing I wanted 533 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,640 to sort of apply on here for anyone because we've been sort of talking about 534 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,840 a little bit of this and if anyone is kind of listening with eager 535 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:04,520 ears to to learn all of this I'm bringing together sort of a 536 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,680 actually it's going to get published here in the next day or two but it is a 537 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,840 untimely a little bit late but hopefully not everyone's on the same fiscal year 538 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:17,240 an mvp dev to a market budget right like what do you absolutely 539 00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:21,480 what do you absolutely need inside of your budget 540 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,200 and a lot of that comes down to meetups right and so one of the things that I 541 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,200 share in there is if you can't sponsor these big huge giant events 542 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,280 can you attend the event can you volunteer can you bring people together 543 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,040 can you do what y'all are doing in different ways to bring those 544 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,720 developers together right okay so I think there's I just wanted to 545 00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:42,920 speak on that real quick I think that there's tons of ways to be able to stay 546 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:49,800 within a budget on that like I got offered a ticket to an event in 547 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:57,560 England and I like I could go but again that cuts the expense down 548 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,200 so like there's speaking events too it's like if you get accepted to talk 549 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,760 that's going to offset the budget for the your company to get you there or if 550 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,760 you're paying your own dime and then you can still host a meetup 551 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,480 or do something off-site or whatever like there's so many different ways around 552 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:21,560 it to like build value but maintain a certain level of like expense 553 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:26,600 um so yeah I love that idea I'm gonna try to do more of that too it's like that 554 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,920 gorilla event planning we just show up and then you're like hey we're here 555 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,520 let's do it so you're hustling hard you're just you're doing all the work 556 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,240 right you're doing all the hard work to build the relationships to bring all 557 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:42,040 those people together yeah okay so I know you have to go soon so let's uh 558 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:47,960 let's do one really good last question that I think is usually very insightful 559 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,520 when you're stuck whether you're stuck in a code problem like we talked about 560 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:57,000 whether you're stuck in uh hey what tool should I use type of a problem 561 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:02,680 what is kind of your hierarchy of steps that you take to get help when you 562 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:09,240 feel like you can't move forward uh first thing I ask clog that's a good one 563 00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:15,240 I I do I mean I'll I'll go to AI if I can't understand what it told me 564 00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:21,640 and I will defer to one of my phone friends I have a very select few people 565 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,040 that I can bounce ideas off of because I mean I think we can all agree we've 566 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,720 run into that person in tech that is the person you would never ask a question 567 00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:36,120 again um so I I do try to avoid that it's like if I'm not understanding the 568 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,520 error if I can't troubleshoot this myself run it that which actually I use 569 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:45,320 pieces I have the desktop app I keep all my stuff in there but I typically use 570 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:51,800 Anthropics uh LLM um sure yep so that if that doesn't make any sense to me and 571 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:56,200 it's not like within 10 minutes I'm like hey Ryan have you ever seen this error 572 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:01,560 message or like what going on um or you know again a couple other people if 573 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,960 they can't then figure it out then we are escalating it to somebody that 574 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:12,200 usually does not have the same responses as as a friendly Ryan um but I 575 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,600 I mean I I don't have a problem asking for help but I also understand like if I 576 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,880 can figure something out on my own I feel like I can gain more from that so 577 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:26,280 that's that's how I do it and it doesn't matter what it is I mean again it can be 578 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,560 a coding problem or just a life problem Google 579 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,720 all right you can honestly you can ask AI life stuff it's 580 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:37,400 some so many people don't realize it's not just for coding 581 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:43,480 like you can just ask it stuff so you absolutely can if anyone's looking for 582 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,360 some tips on how to leverage clod and sort of think about that there's an 583 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:51,160 episode from last week with Alex Standford and he actually um talks about 584 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,320 what he does and he uses clod and chat GPT and sort of goes back and forth and 585 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,520 actually like has chat GPT interview him so if that 586 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,520 intrigues you at all and it sounds like beautiful results I would go listen to 587 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,840 that episode and just hear his kind of tips and tech 588 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,200 sneaks I love that and I think so here I actually 589 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,480 would like to just shed light on one thing really super quickly so you would 590 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,200 say something about asking people um you're going to get different types of 591 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,960 results and asking yeah what I am assuming or that you're alluding to is 592 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,880 asking a far more senior engineer something who you 593 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,920 don't really like to tap into that resource because you know that they're 594 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:31,320 busy and they're at this level right um I am going to openly say this that I 595 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,160 feel like and this is me making an assumption I feel like people put me in 596 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,880 that bucket and so people reach out to me but not like 597 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,400 they used to and I think that if I can speak for the senior 598 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,160 devs it actually kind of makes me sad because then I'm doing all the 599 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,600 outreach to reach out to somebody else which is great but at the same time I 600 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,720 don't have the the time very similar to sort of the other 601 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:57,560 you know senior dev um and so I think there is sort of this like 602 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,520 very very interesting dynamic of like who can I reach out to and ask time for 603 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,120 but at the same time sort of feel like it's it's um 604 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,680 you're burdening them so I think I just ask the people because honestly people 605 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,480 don't ask me for stuff anymore and it kind of bums me out and I'm like I 606 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,440 would I will so happily help and I realize I'm busy 607 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,880 but I'll even take the path of replying publicly right so if 608 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,440 you want insights from someone who you feel like you don't want to 609 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:30,040 take their time in air quotes there um do it publicly ask me directly on 610 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,080 twitter tag me and say tessa what do you think of this because then 611 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,120 you're not wasting my time because then I get to come in and 612 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,800 help you answer your question but then all the rest of the people that get to 613 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,000 see it also get the answer and so if you're able to do it publicly I would 614 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,800 recommend that otherwise just go ask the people 615 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,560 they are I think asking public is something a lot of people do say 616 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,160 also and I think when it's asked that way 617 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,760 they assume that you're gonna ask the question the right way I think that 618 00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:02,360 there's like people don't have time for for banter or chatter 619 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:07,160 um you know if you have a question ask it yeah if the person needs more 620 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:12,200 information they will ask back like that's how the flow should be so 621 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,120 instead of just you know hey what's up had a question 622 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,120 then you wait for the response like no just just ask if they don't have time but 623 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,560 again put it in public because you're not going to post that in public you're 624 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,560 not going to be like hey how you doing had a question can you get back to me 625 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,560 you know you you ask so I think that that does make sense 626 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:38,360 um I've had Eddie uh jowl say like we have conversations pretty often but 627 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:43,240 it'd be like oh you should ask me that in public because then other people could 628 00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:48,040 also benefit from it exactly exactly and I'm like no just 629 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:54,200 answer the goddamn question no what the hell no um but no he's he's a good 630 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,760 dude but I see the benefit of it besides just for you and again that's like 631 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,280 paying it forward to the building and learning in public opportunity where 632 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,360 everybody can benefit from the question so yeah and that person who gets to 633 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,880 answer it has scaled their time right yes they invested time to go and answer 634 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,680 the question but it means that they got to help more than just one person answer 635 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:17,000 that question um and and what you said about please 636 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:22,040 don't DM me and say hey how are you like literally please don't say hey how are 637 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,880 you hope you're well then dump what you want um that was an 638 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,000 absolutely amazing call out so that is a great tip for anybody right 639 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,920 um it's beautiful to come in and groom that and make sure that you're courteous 640 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,600 about the situation but to require them to write back so that you can ask a 641 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,560 question means that they're not going to write back when you need that answer 642 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,080 and then there's still yet another delay to get in the answer that you need 643 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,760 yeah over time you can develop that relationship with people like that's 644 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,920 fun yeah but I get a lot and I'm sure you 645 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:56,600 had them as well of those just like hey yes I'm like what hey what 646 00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,080 hey what like Ryan can say hey to me at this point like you can message me a 647 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,200 hey but even still I'll usually just be like hey 648 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,360 hope you're doing well just checking it yep there's the there's the question 649 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:13,080 there's the the statement is in the the first line so 650 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:17,400 you know life short and I don't think many people even if they have the time 651 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,560 want to spend it in those types of situations so it's like do 652 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,560 yourself a favor too yep absolutely okay so to wrap up the 653 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,680 show where can people find you you're an amazing human being everyone should be 654 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,160 your friend so they need to go find Jason Torres 655 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,960 where can we find you I am all over the place I'm on LinkedIn as myself you can 656 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,440 find me uh or Tayson Joraz on Twitter the Jason 657 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,680 Torres was taken and the guy told me to kick rocks when I asked him for it so 658 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,840 I will never be Jason Torres I am Tayson Joraz if somebody actually did think 659 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:54,920 was my name at one point too not it it's not it I love what you did there though 660 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,760 well thank you everybody should follow you as well you are such a beacon of 661 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,280 positivity and you've always been there for me and I 662 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,960 appreciate that and I hope that you and your family have a great Christmas 663 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,320 yes you too um and that's just us right that's what we do 664 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,360 we do those selfless acts because we know that they're gonna come back and if 665 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,000 they don't come back to us they're gonna come back to somebody else and that's 666 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,000 just how the world turns so yeah there it is all right y'all this has 667 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:24,200 been so great thank you for everyone who has joined us Jason any final words 668 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,920 uh I will give you my my final call for the year this will be the last time I 669 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,520 say it it's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice 670 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:37,160 oh I love that well on that note I will see everyone later 671 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:55,080 Merry Christmas Merry Christmas