1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,440 Yay, we are officially live. 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,240 I'm super pumped for this conversation. 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,280 Alex, I'm very happy that you're here. 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,560 Why don't you introduce yourself? 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:13,560 Sure. 6 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:14,560 So my name is Alex. 7 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:22,000 I am the founder and owner of Novatorious, which is a web development business. 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:28,600 We build some products like siren affiliates, and I'm developing this process with and working 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,560 with people on different products and projects and clients and things like that. 10 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,440 So it's kind of like an agency. 11 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:40,480 We do client work and we do things like that, but really it's kind of this big umbrella 12 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:42,440 of just web development in general. 13 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,800 I started in WordPress. 14 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:45,800 I was in WordPress. 15 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:46,800 I'm still in WordPress, technically. 16 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,120 I mean, I'm definitely in green in that community. 17 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:56,680 But I've been around working on web development stuff since 2010, 2011. 18 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,760 And a developer ever since picked up work. 19 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,560 I worked for a little while as a freelancer. 20 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,000 After that, I worked at several different agencies. 21 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:12,320 And eventually I spent some time working for a company called Sandhills Development, where 22 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:19,480 I worked on Affiliate WP, worked on easy digital downloads, and a few things like that. 23 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,960 And then I ended up leaving that company whenever they got bought out by somebody and I didn't 24 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:25,960 really want to work with them. 25 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:30,040 I left that company and I worked over at GoDaddy for a few years. 26 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,960 So I've been kind of all over the place, but mostly just kind of on this clear focus of 27 00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:37,760 development and building things. 28 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:42,720 Since then, I've built a number of different PHP-based frameworks that have been kind of 29 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,000 iterations of themselves. 30 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,120 The first one was called Underpin, which I still have. 31 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:49,120 It's still out there. 32 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:50,280 It's still accessible. 33 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:55,800 But then I realized I had a different problem that I was trying to solve than what Underpin 34 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:56,800 was solving. 35 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,880 So then I also created another one that's kind of my darling. 36 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,800 And that is kind of like the fundamental of Novatorious and my business and all that. 37 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,800 And that's called PHP Nomad. 38 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,520 I can't wait to talk about PHP Nomad. 39 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:09,520 Yeah, it's great. 40 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:10,520 I love it. 41 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:11,520 Yeah. 42 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,320 Well, you're doing some really, I mean, you're doing a lot of stuff. 43 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,760 And we've had the opportunity to work a little bit together, which has been really great. 44 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,360 You and I just got the chance to meet, which I thought was interesting because you've been 45 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,080 in the WordPress ecosystem for a long time. 46 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:28,120 I was in the WordPress ecosystem for a long time, but somehow paths didn't cross until 47 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:32,080 we both got to meet each other at WordCampUS this year, which was really great. 48 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:33,080 Yep. 49 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:34,080 Yep. 50 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:39,440 I was in conference mode, so I was a blur just running around. 51 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,920 There are some people who I regularly talk to at conferences, those conferences in one 52 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:44,680 of them. 53 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,720 He is a particularly, he's a more introverted type. 54 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,000 And he was very outgoing, very friendly and talks to people. 55 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,720 But he usually just people who tend to come to him instead of the other way around. 56 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:01,360 And he actually, when I was, I came over and I sat down with him, he's like, dude, every 57 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,720 time I turn around, you're there. 58 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:04,920 You're just in a different group. 59 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:06,520 Like you're just everywhere at once. 60 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:07,520 How is that even possible? 61 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,680 And I was like, well, I just, it's what I do. 62 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,040 And then after the conference, I collapse, but it's fun. 63 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,040 Yep. 64 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:16,040 Yep. 65 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:17,040 I do the same exact thing. 66 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:18,320 I'm like, go, go, go hustle, hustle. 67 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:25,040 Like I love people as long as they are my peers as they're, you know, fellow technical, 68 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,200 technically minded and curious human beings. 69 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:28,440 So I'm the same way. 70 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,240 And then also crash, crash. 71 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:31,240 Yes. 72 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:32,240 Yeah, crash hard. 73 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:33,240 Yeah, definitely. 74 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:34,240 Okay. 75 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,280 Let's get into, let's get into the details, right? 76 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,720 So first question, I mean, you shared with us a little bit about what you're building. 77 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:47,640 But in terms of gosh, I don't have my actual, I don't have my iPad next to me, which is 78 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:48,880 where my questions normally are. 79 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:49,880 I'm like, where did it go? 80 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,360 My kid took it, I think. 81 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:52,360 Let's start with... 82 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:53,360 The battery's dead. 83 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:54,360 Forget it. 84 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:55,360 Yeah. 85 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:56,360 I know, right? 86 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:57,360 Well, he was coloring this morning. 87 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,360 Got to keep him occupied. 88 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:00,360 Yeah. 89 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:01,360 Okay. 90 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,200 So let's dive into what you're working on and kind of what your day to day looks like. 91 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:06,480 Let's actually start with your day to day, right? 92 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,320 What is sort of a normal Alex day to day look like? 93 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,960 And I'm sure you're bouncing around, but you know, what are the things you bounce around 94 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:12,960 to? 95 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,760 So a lot of the stuff I've been doing lately has been all about process and all about 96 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,760 creating the systems within my business. 97 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,560 I've learned this year that I kind of have... 98 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:28,200 That my two biggest personal strengths are creating systems, taking complicated things 99 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,120 and standardizing them and automating them, blah, blah, blah. 100 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:31,120 I love doing that. 101 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:32,120 I can do that all day, every day. 102 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,120 That's why I'm a programmer. 103 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,480 And then the second thing is I'm pretty personal, personable. 104 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,960 I can take complicated ideas and explain them clearly. 105 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,440 Those two things are closely related, but those are kind of the things that I'm really 106 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:45,440 good at. 107 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:53,520 I've been working really hard on creating systems that support those two things, that 108 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:58,680 let me do those things and really bring out the most value in my own business, right? 109 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:04,520 So I've been doing a lot of that, but my day to day is basically waking up, talking to 110 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,520 Claude a lot. 111 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:08,240 Is he working for you? 112 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:09,720 Because he's not working for me. 113 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:10,720 Basically, I've got a... 114 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,840 Okay, I have this dedicated project at Claude that I call the Novatorious Expert. 115 00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:17,400 And it's just got a ton of... 116 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,240 Just every document that I ever have, every time I have a conversation with it or something 117 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:22,480 insightful, I add to it. 118 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,360 And I'm adding and removing from it. 119 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:25,880 And I just kind of talk to it all the time. 120 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:31,440 And when I'm not talking to it, I am probably jogging on the treadmill and doing the phone 121 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:36,160 call thing with chat GPT and having a one-on-one conversation with it while I'm running to 122 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:37,640 work through an idea. 123 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,920 And then I take that back to Claude and I disseminate it into a document. 124 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:47,080 But that's about 90% of what I've been doing for the last three weeks, to be honest. 125 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,080 Dang. 126 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,480 I mean, I get what you're doing and where you're at because I'm doing the same things, 127 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,160 but Claude is not functioning lately. 128 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,280 And every time that I'm like, okay, Claude, here's your time to shine because I have my 129 00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:00,880 project set up in the same way. 130 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,680 Not working, won't load. 131 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,360 That's because I'm using all of it. 132 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,240 I actually posted on Twitter and I was like, people stop telling everyone about Claude. 133 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,160 I know that's selfish, but that's funny. 134 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:19,680 But then in addition to that, I've been doing a fair bit of pretty much all of my development 135 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,120 these days is on PHP Nomad. 136 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,760 Any time there's ever anything I'm doing, I'm developing the frameworks and systems 137 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,960 because Novatorious is all in on PHP Nomad. 138 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,520 Every project we do, every project we do is using it. 139 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:41,560 And I mean, all the way down to I have a service called Taskmaster that's at my company that 140 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:48,920 automatically parses to do's inside of code and it turns it into ClickUp tasks. 141 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:49,920 And the reason why, yeah. 142 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,640 So basically it lets us do what I call code driven discovery. 143 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:57,520 So you create a PHP class, right? 144 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,120 And instead of defining the methods and building it all out right now, you just create other 145 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:02,120 classes. 146 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:03,200 You're creating the architecture, the big level. 147 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,240 How do these classes interact? 148 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,320 What is the role of all these classes? 149 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:08,880 And then you create a to do inside of that. 150 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,880 And then whenever that gets merged, it automatically turns the to do, to like flesh out that class 151 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,200 in ClickUp for me. 152 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:21,440 So then I can start to have multiple people work on those things and then they can turn 153 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,720 those individual methods into individual to do's and then those individual methods get 154 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:27,800 implemented one at a time. 155 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,280 So that's kind of, you're going to see a recurring theme here. 156 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,000 That's kind of how everything works in my business and everything that I'm going to be 157 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:43,320 talking about today is about taking something that's abstract and then over time, progressively 158 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,480 adding clarity to it until it's crystal clear exactly how to do it. 159 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,960 And it's just a series of action items. 160 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:53,320 So anyway, my day to day though, gosh, so many tangents. 161 00:07:53,320 --> 00:08:02,480 My day to day is specifically whenever it comes to PHP Nomad is writing code that makes 162 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:03,480 PHP Nomad better. 163 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:04,480 Right. 164 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:05,480 So I'm adding support. 165 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:06,480 I'm writing documentation. 166 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:11,800 I'm setting it up to work not only as a wordpress, a framework that supports WordPress. 167 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:12,800 I'm setting it up now. 168 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,600 I just set it up a couple weeks ago to be able to work as its own independent MVC framework 169 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,000 if you want it to. 170 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,080 Yeah, there's potential for it to become, you know, Laravel integration and stuff like 171 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:24,080 that. 172 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:25,080 But I'm getting ahead of myself. 173 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:26,600 You guys probably don't even know what PHP Nomad is. 174 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,200 So we should probably stop there. 175 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:29,200 Right. 176 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:30,800 But we'll get there, right? 177 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:31,800 Yeah, we'll get there. 178 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:32,800 Yeah. 179 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:37,440 I was like, I know that my next question is like, tell the people about PHP Nomad because 180 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,800 I'm so excited about it. 181 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,640 Anything else you want to shed light on in your day, you know, just thinking about sort 182 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,080 of, you know, other developers or other founders like you, you know, any other things that 183 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,040 can sort of give them a little bird's eye view into like, what does Alex, you know, have 184 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,640 to take on and deal with them a day to day basis? 185 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:55,880 Yeah. 186 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,160 So the biggest change I've observed. 187 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:05,920 I've ran, this is my second time trying to run a business myself in a service based business 188 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:06,920 like this. 189 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,040 The first time I was running a web agency, right? 190 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,880 And this time, that's an aspect of my business, but it's not the sole aspect. 191 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:20,120 The biggest difference now versus then is back then I said, I'm going to run an agency 192 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,240 to make some money and then maybe I'll make a product someday. 193 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:30,800 This time I'm making a product and the agency's entire purpose is to serve that product. 194 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:31,800 That's beautiful. 195 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:32,800 Yeah. 196 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:33,800 So yeah. 197 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,480 So it's a complete paradigm shift in that regard. 198 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:41,240 But then also just really focusing in on what am I good at? 199 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,640 What am I bad at and not doing the stuff I'm bad at and doing the stuff I'm good at? 200 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,400 I know it sounds simple, but so many people fall into this trap of just putting up with 201 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:56,440 doing the bad thing because they can't find or haven't taken the time to develop the stuff 202 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:01,400 needed to be able to have somebody do the stuff they're bad at. 203 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,520 And honestly, it's so easy to fall into. 204 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:08,320 I did that for almost a decade whenever I was running my last agency, right? 205 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:13,560 And I never grew because I just kept freaking doing that. 206 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:15,840 And I was frustrating my clients. 207 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:16,840 I was burning myself out. 208 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,240 It was just a lose-lose all around. 209 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,360 So this time around, I'm avoiding that like the plague. 210 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,680 I see that and I go, oh, that's something I'm bad at. 211 00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:30,520 And maybe it's just because I got burned so much in the past now that I just have this 212 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:31,520 visceral reaction. 213 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,020 I'm like, that's a bad thing. 214 00:10:33,020 --> 00:10:34,020 Somebody should be doing that. 215 00:10:34,020 --> 00:10:35,020 It's not me. 216 00:10:35,020 --> 00:10:36,020 That's good though. 217 00:10:36,020 --> 00:10:37,020 Yeah. 218 00:10:37,020 --> 00:10:41,560 There's this like, I don't want to say it's fear, but there's just like this. 219 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:42,560 It's visceral. 220 00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:44,280 It's truly a visceral feeling. 221 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:45,760 I'll see a task or something. 222 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,400 I'll be like, that's not for me. 223 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,840 I know, I, you know, yeah. 224 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:57,320 So there's a lot of it, a lot of just like, I don't know how to just talking to yourself 225 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:58,320 for lack of better terms. 226 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,200 That's what I mean whenever I talk to Claude or AI or people, right? 227 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:06,040 I have coaches of course now who are helping me when I'm conversing with. 228 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,640 And I'm just kind of working through and understanding what I'm good at, where I fit in the business, 229 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,200 where I don't fit in the business. 230 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:18,880 And I think that's just kind of the biggest key difference now. 231 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,440 And I think it's going to make a big difference. 232 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:21,440 I know it is. 233 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,160 It already has. 234 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,400 I love all of that. 235 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:30,040 There was so many like awesome things that you shared, but I think obviously you, you 236 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,480 know, utilizing AI and like those different ways of like, Hey, let me just work through 237 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:38,640 my thoughts because oftentimes like, you know, we know the rubber ducky analogy for developers, 238 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,040 right, you, you explain your problem to someone else and suddenly, well, you explain your 239 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,720 problem to a rubber ducky that sits on your desk, right? 240 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,920 And all of a sudden, you know, you're like, Oh, oh my gosh, I just needed to explain it 241 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:50,920 to realize that. 242 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,400 I got to expand on this a little bit because this is so good. 243 00:11:54,400 --> 00:12:00,960 So, so chat, the voice mode is really good for this. 244 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:08,040 So what I'll do is I will, I clear my memory in it because it doesn't have projects. 245 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,040 Not really. 246 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,360 You can't use projects with the voice mode, but you can use the memory. 247 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,760 So what I'll do is I'll clear my memory and then I'll have a call. 248 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,240 I'll know what I need to talk about and I'll go into Claude and my project and I'll grab 249 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:23,000 the documents that I know I want chat, GVT to know about and I'll literally go into chat 250 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,720 and I'll say, remember this and I give it to it and it remembers that document and I just 251 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:27,720 go through and I have it. 252 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,720 Remember all the stuff that I need it to remember for the conversation I'm about to have with 253 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:32,720 it. 254 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:33,720 Interesting. 255 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:34,720 Okay. 256 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:41,960 So I get changed into gym clothes and I go downstairs and I put my, put my AirPods in, 257 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,240 put my turn the voice on and I have a pre-written prompt. 258 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:49,000 So I know exactly what to say to start the conversation and I say, you know, and I say 259 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,320 the prompt, but the key thing about, and it's not like a super fancy prompt or anything 260 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,320 like that. 261 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,360 Literally the concept is you are going to interview me. 262 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,040 That's what I tell you are going to interview me about this topic. 263 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:02,040 Here's what I'm trying to solve. 264 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:03,720 Here's what I'm trying to get out of it. 265 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,760 Here are some of the things that you need to use reference your memory for any extra 266 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:07,920 context. 267 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,320 You are going to ask me one question at a time and I'm going to answer those questions. 268 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:13,320 That's fire Alex. 269 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:14,320 Yeah. 270 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:15,320 Yeah. 271 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:16,320 It's great. 272 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,400 And then you get on a treadmill and you start running and it asks you a question and as 273 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,720 you're running, you just answer the question, you know, and, and whenever it's talking, you 274 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,800 turn up your speed a little bit and when you're talking, you turn it down and you get one 275 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:33,040 hour of voice time per day at that, like that high, the good voice chat with chat GPT 276 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,520 get one hour a day, which is perfect because it's a workout. 277 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,880 So you get a one hour workout, you get a voice call, you get all this stuff. 278 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,040 And then whenever you're done, you go back upstairs to your computer. 279 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,560 That whole conversation is just sitting there and you can go in the chat and say, okay, 280 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:46,560 I need you to summarize this as a document. 281 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,080 Or in my case, what I do is I copy that whole thing. 282 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,880 I take it into the cloud and I paste that whole thing in there and I say, let's talk 283 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,160 about this based on your context and figure out and disseminate it into documents that 284 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,800 I then feedback into cloud later on afterward. 285 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:04,560 Once I have it all figured out, there's been so much like just discovery of, of my business 286 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,280 and myself just from doing that. 287 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:07,280 It's been so good. 288 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:08,280 Oh my gosh. 289 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,640 I'm so glad that you just shared that walkthrough because I've been utilizing cloud and, and 290 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:17,440 not chat GPT honestly as much as I could have been obviously, but I've been utilizing 291 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:18,440 cloud a lot. 292 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:23,000 And yes, sometimes it can take me down a rabbit hole and then I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm actually 293 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,720 worse off than I was in the beginning. 294 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,880 But I think sometimes it's really, really valuable. 295 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:28,880 Okay. 296 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:29,880 So it's like burning away. 297 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:30,880 So yeah, sorry. 298 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,160 No, no, no, this is good. 299 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:33,160 This is beautiful. 300 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:34,360 This is all the stuff people want to hear about. 301 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:35,960 How can they leverage different tools? 302 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:37,520 And that's the point of the show, right? 303 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:38,520 What are you up to? 304 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:39,520 What do you do? 305 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:40,520 And what can we do? 306 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,240 But I want to talk about PHP Nomad. 307 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,560 So like let's actually, let's dive into what you're building. 308 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,840 So let's, let's do, give us a breakdown of essentially, you know, whatever you want to 309 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,600 share here, but what's siren, what's PHP Nomad? 310 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,320 You know, what are kind of the things that you're working on? 311 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:55,960 Let's actually talk about the goodies. 312 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:56,960 All right. 313 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:58,480 So PHP Nomad. 314 00:14:58,480 --> 00:14:59,480 Let's start there. 315 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,960 So PHP Nomad is, it employs what I call the nomadic approach to web development, to development 316 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,400 in general, not web development, just programming as a whole. 317 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:13,560 The paradigm is we, it, it flips the, the relationship. 318 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,400 It's an inversion of control kind of thing, right? 319 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:20,600 So it flips the relationship of what you're integrating with and what you're integrating. 320 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:25,360 So the idea is your code should be nomadic. 321 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:33,440 It should be able to jump from platform to platform and not have to be, require a complete 322 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:34,960 rewrite to do that. 323 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:36,920 So that's where PHP Nomad fits into this. 324 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:44,240 It's done, but it does it by creating abstractions, creating a layer between whatever you're integrating 325 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,400 with and your actual code, right? 326 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,040 So your code is in the middle. 327 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,160 PHP, there's a layer outside of it. 328 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:56,960 PHP Nomad that serves as the series of interfaces and stuff that you integrate with that are 329 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:57,960 generic, right? 330 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:03,040 Generalize and not specific to any platform, but you work in, you write code with PHP Nomad 331 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,560 and PHP Nomad translates it to whatever platform you're writing for. 332 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:08,560 Dying. 333 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:09,560 So, yeah. 334 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:10,560 So that's the idea on how it works. 335 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:17,600 So the benefit of this is in Siren, which Siren is my performance program, my, my affiliate 336 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,040 program plugin basically. 337 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:24,520 So it lets you build any kind of performance based system. 338 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:25,960 Why can't I think of the right word right now? 339 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:26,960 Just left. 340 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:27,960 Incentive? 341 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:28,960 Thank you. 342 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:29,960 Incentive program. 343 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:30,960 Yeah, that's it. 344 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:31,960 Yeah, it's like it's an incentive program, not just affiliates. 345 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:32,960 Thank you. 346 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:33,960 It's an incentive program builder. 347 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:34,960 Yes. 348 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:35,960 Yes. 349 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,560 So anyway, that software I built with PHP Nomad. 350 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,520 And in fact, they've both been very closely tightly intertwined because the day I built 351 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,800 Siren, I built it as a WordPress plugin, but I don't want it to just be a WordPress plugin 352 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:49,800 forever. 353 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,800 And I didn't want to, right, right. 354 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:56,480 I think you, and I didn't want it to just be that, but I needed to start with what I 355 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:57,720 know, right? 356 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,800 Which what I know is WordPress. 357 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,240 That's that in terms of integrations. 358 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,480 I've worked with Laravel, I've worked with other things, but I needed to keep this simple 359 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:05,480 and I needed to get it done. 360 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,280 Otherwise, it would be 2030 and I'd still be building it or I would have burned out before 361 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:09,280 I got it launched. 362 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:10,880 I had to get the damn thing launched. 363 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:17,200 So, but knowing that, having that vision and having that context, I knew I didn't want 364 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,480 to have to rebuild this entire plugin a year or two down the road. 365 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,080 And I didn't want to make it painful to make the switch. 366 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,560 So I created PHP Nomad as this layer between the two. 367 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,760 And it's just kind of blossomed into this thing that not only solves sirens immediately 368 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:36,600 needs, but now that I've, I have it, I'm wanting to use it for everything because it's like, 369 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,240 oh, because now I don't have to, because there's this whole other benefit to it. 370 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,640 So I built it for that reason so that I could build it as a WordPress plugin. 371 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:47,440 And then later, if I ever decided I wanted to create it as its own SAS or something like 372 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:53,560 that, I could just take all the PHP, the WordPress integration, pull that out and plop in an 373 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,000 MVC integration, maybe Laravel or something like that. 374 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,080 I ended up just doing a completely like from the ground up. 375 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,080 It's not from the ground up. 376 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,280 It's using a series of different packages that it's integrating with that combined together 377 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,760 basically makes PHP Nomad into an MVC framework. 378 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:12,400 But anyway, but the point is now I can do that. 379 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,360 Now I can rip that out and put that into as a SAS without rebuilding siren because sirens 380 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:19,360 core didn't never integrated with WordPress. 381 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:20,560 It never touched WordPress. 382 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,240 PHP Nomad touched WordPress. 383 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,680 So I gotta do switch those out. 384 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:24,680 Good to go. 385 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:25,680 Wow. 386 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:31,920 That's super powerful, especially, especially this, I don't want to bring up too much drama 387 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:37,280 or things, but with the, what is happening in the WordPress ecosystem today, I think 388 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:42,240 there's a lot of fear around what is the future and where does WordPress go and is this a reliable 389 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,400 ecosystem to continue investing in. 390 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,720 And I think when, when you and I talked and you told me about PHP Nomad, obviously, you 391 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:53,720 know, I like was very excited because I love siren and I love incentive programs. 392 00:18:53,720 --> 00:19:00,160 And I think they're so powerful to leverage customers to advocate on your behalf or champions, 393 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,160 right? 394 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,520 People who already love you or your product or your service, right? 395 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:04,920 Why not leverage them? 396 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,880 So siren is such an amazing product. 397 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,640 If y'all can't tell, I'm like obsessed with siren. 398 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,920 I can't wait until it is a sass because it will be something that will be very beautifully 399 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:14,600 integrated into everything that I do. 400 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:19,560 But you know, this idea of being able to, to build outside of the ecosystem, even if 401 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:25,920 WordPress didn't have this drama is so powerful because I think I struggle as feeling like 402 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,560 I'm a very well capable developer because most of my skills have been in like the Drupal, 403 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:31,760 the Joomla, the WordPress. 404 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:32,760 I'm in a system. 405 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,800 I'm in a platform and it's a lot harder to go out and be like, well, let me just build 406 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,160 something from scratch, right? 407 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,280 The, the level of build out is much different. 408 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,960 So digressing super pumped about everything that you're doing. 409 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,200 And folks should definitely check out PHP Nomad if they're in that same space. 410 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,800 So keep going if you add more, but I just, I have to say all that. 411 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,520 The extra, the other thing. 412 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,160 So in addition to me getting that benefit, right? 413 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:58,160 Yeah. 414 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:07,000 Of the nomadic approach to programming is that it also has become, the reason why I want 415 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,880 to use it for everything now is because now I don't have to contact switch. 416 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,080 I've put myself, I'm like, I'm shielded from the integration itself. 417 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:19,240 So because of everything I'm writing is working with PHP Nomad. 418 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:20,440 I know PHP Nomad. 419 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,040 Therefore I know every platform that integrates with PHP Nomad, right? 420 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,240 So I can hire a person and it just makes it easier to outsource too. 421 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:33,920 Cause if I can get people who understand how PHP Nomad works and they, they don't have, 422 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,000 I'm not looking for WordPress developers, Drupal developers, Jumo developers, Lara 423 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,280 Viva developers, I'm looking for people who know how to write PHP Nomad. 424 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:46,480 And once they understand that the rest of that conversation doesn't matter, right? 425 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:47,960 They can literally build this. 426 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,800 They could build software completely devoid of, without ever, they could build a WordPress 427 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,640 plugin without ever installing WordPress. 428 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:56,640 That's crazy. 429 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:57,640 Right? 430 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:58,640 So like, yeah. 431 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,160 When you think about it that way, like it's not just, I can move my code, it's the code 432 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:04,320 is movable. 433 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:11,000 So it means that, and we have projects now that I'm working with where, and that people 434 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,680 are building stuff and they're not even installing WordPress. 435 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,280 Like I just said, they're, they're building interfaces, they're building code, they're 436 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:22,360 building ideas and they're conceptualizing, improving it out in a way simpler environment 437 00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:25,320 than setting up a full blown WordPress install with MySQL and all this stuff. 438 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,160 So like there's just, there's just all these implications that happen and all these benefits 439 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,560 that come from being nomadic that I had never even considered, but now that I've done it 440 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,560 and I've seen it, I'm done. 441 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:36,560 Forget it. 442 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,480 I mean, my, the, the documentation for PHP Nomad is going to be written in PHP Nomad. 443 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,080 The, the every service that I'm writing is in PHP Nomad. 444 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,840 Every WordPress plugin I'm doing, every site I'm building, all of it. 445 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,200 I'm, I'm obsessed. 446 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,120 It is, it is awesome. 447 00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:50,120 I love it. 448 00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:55,320 Oh, that's, that is how every founder, I love that passion, right? 449 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:00,640 Like every founder wants to reach that point of just like this, this admiration for something 450 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:01,640 that they've built, right? 451 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,120 And I think sometimes we do, we get there, right? 452 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:09,520 But we, we have these like ebb and flows of, of the love language that we have for our 453 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,760 code and sometimes it takes us a while to get there. 454 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,640 So I love your passion behind it. 455 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,800 You really, you really are, you're deeply ingrained in that. 456 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:17,800 Okay. 457 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,000 Now that I realize my iPad's still missing, I gotta pull my question. 458 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,000 I'm so sorry. 459 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,000 It's okay. 460 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,000 Don't sweat it. 461 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,000 For folks who are watching, I had to run my toddler to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to 462 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,840 his little parents' day out and then come back right when we had to, to get on the call. 463 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,880 So I'm a little out of, okay, I got it. 464 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:33,880 Got my next one. 465 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,480 Um, what is your developer education? 466 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:37,880 This one I think is going to be fun. 467 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:38,880 Yeah. 468 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:45,920 So, um, I start, I, I've never gone to college as a developer, um, but I've been a programmer. 469 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,840 I've, I've been into computers my entire life, right? 470 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:54,200 So like the, I'm very much the stereotypical millennial who was three years old, you know, 471 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,760 installing stuff on my computer before I even knew what installing was. 472 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,800 Not realizing that I didn't have to run the install installation every time just to run 473 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:02,800 the program, right? 474 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:03,800 It's stuff like that. 475 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,400 Uh, or, you know, my dad got mad at me when I was a kid because I filled the entire, you 476 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,040 know, hard drive with bitmap files from MS paint because I decided I wanted to save all 477 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,040 of it. 478 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,960 Like, so I've been using, I grew up with computer, a computer access to a computer pretty much 479 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:17,960 a whole life. 480 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,400 Um, I was a web developer. 481 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,160 Uh, that's not true. 482 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,600 I was on the web design team in high school. 483 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,000 Uh, I took every keyboard in class. 484 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,000 Yeah. 485 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:36,680 Actually I have a somewhere I can, I found a way back machine has a web has, has my 486 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,360 personal web page that I built on the school because a benefit of being on the team, you 487 00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:46,080 got your own page and it is my favorite food was tacos and my favorite movie was Bruce 488 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,080 Almighty, apparently. 489 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,600 Um, you know what was up? 490 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:49,600 Yeah. 491 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:50,600 Right. 492 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,800 And honestly, I, where's the lie? 493 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:59,160 So, um, but, uh, anyway, so I did that for, you know, I was doing that as kids and stuff 494 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,160 like that. 495 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,640 Um, I was a mechanical engineer for a little, for about a decade, which a vocational school. 496 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,440 I did all that for a little while and then, um, realized I wanted to work remotely and 497 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:10,440 that's whenever I ended up. 498 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,920 And the whole reason why I was a mechanical engineer is because I love computers. 499 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:18,360 I wanted to do 3D modeling and actually funny enough, my 3D printer is running right now. 500 00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:19,360 So like, I still use that. 501 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:21,400 Is that what's in the back that you just pointed to? 502 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:22,400 Yeah, this thing right here. 503 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,400 Yeah. 504 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,800 It's printing a, uh, that's a big one. 505 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:26,960 Well, it's the case. 506 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:27,960 That's all the case. 507 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:28,960 This is, this is the printer. 508 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:34,200 It's not that big, but, uh, right now it's printing a kite reel for one of my, well, 509 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,760 for kite reels. 510 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:41,120 Anyway, uh, so like, yeah, cause, cause the tail is annoying to reel in and I couldn't 511 00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:42,120 find a good solution. 512 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:43,120 So I modeled something up. 513 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:45,120 Of course you did. 514 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:46,600 That's what technical people do. 515 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,920 I should say that's what, you know, like, I don't even know if it's technical. 516 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,240 If it's like the curious problem solving mind, you know, yeah. 517 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:53,240 That's it. 518 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,880 Uh, so, and I've always been that I've always been problems, a problem solver. 519 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,040 I've always loved doing those kinds of things. 520 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:05,360 So anyway, so I was doing that for a while and then I decided I wanted to work remotely. 521 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:08,000 This is 2012, 2013, right? 522 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,880 And I had my first kid wanted to be home with it all the time, him all the time. 523 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,160 Yeah, that's funny. 524 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,160 Him all the time. 525 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,160 Um, and I didn't want to work, go into my job at the time. 526 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,440 Uh, mechanical engineering, that was not even possible. 527 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,760 I'm not even sure if it's possible now, but it definitely wasn't possible then. 528 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:24,760 Yeah. 529 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:25,760 You have to be close to the plant. 530 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,160 You have to know what's going on, blah, blah, blah. 531 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,200 Um, so I said, screw it. 532 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,200 I'm going to become a programmer. 533 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:40,520 I built a website in WordPress using, uh, the photo, uh, with tutorials on how to edit 534 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,240 photos with GIMP, the photo editor. 535 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,120 Um, because again, software, love computers, love, loved it. 536 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:47,120 Right. 537 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:51,800 Um, so that's kind of, I was tapping into that web design, web development knowledge 538 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:56,720 of when I was a kid, when I was younger, building my space pages, you know, Neopets, 539 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,360 shop, customizations, all that stuff, geosities, yeah, all that. 540 00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:07,320 Uh, so yeah, all of my origin comes from all that is really just mostly, uh, just having 541 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,640 a life of playing with computers and breaking them repeatedly. 542 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:18,720 Uh, I installed my first version of Ubuntu in like 2008, 2007, uh, you know, and it's, 543 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:24,800 um, entirely because I wanted the wobbly windows. 544 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:25,800 I'm not even kidding. 545 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,040 Oh, still this day. 546 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,040 Go ahead. 547 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,480 Oh, no, I didn't mean to cut you off. 548 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,560 I was literally just going to say we as developers, like our goal is always to save time, but 549 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,960 then we'll also blow so much time just building something really cool that we want to play 550 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:39,960 with. 551 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:40,960 It's like, what the heck? 552 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,960 It was, it was, I think it was comp is maybe it was called that, but I can't remember, but 553 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,560 it had the wobbly windows and when you'd switch, when you'd switch desktops, which 554 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,240 by the way, multiple desktops was only Ubuntu at the time. 555 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,960 So I blew my freaking mind when I saw this guy hit a, hit, hit a shortcut key and the 556 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,400 whole computer rotated like a cube to a new desktop. 557 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,960 I was like, this is it for me. 558 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,640 And I love that. 559 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:03,640 Yeah. 560 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,640 So then I learned, had to learn bash by fire and anyway. 561 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:08,640 So here I am now. 562 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,960 That's awesome. 563 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,360 I think it's been interesting. 564 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:17,040 Like people come from different walks of life, obviously, but Mike, who I interviewed yesterday, 565 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,480 he also started in mechanical engineering. 566 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,800 So you and you and him have some, some common interests there, which is fun. 567 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:24,800 Yeah. 568 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:25,800 It is super fun. 569 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:26,800 Okay. 570 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:27,800 Great. 571 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,000 So we talked about what you're building. 572 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,200 We talked about, you know, like, okay, let me, sorry. 573 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,200 That's okay. 574 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,320 We did that. 575 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,760 I'm, I'm, I'm working through my kind of show process, right? 576 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:40,880 But okay. 577 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,360 So challenges, I think we've, we've talked about a lot of what you do in your day to 578 00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:48,880 day and kind of how you maybe go about solving challenges and some of that. 579 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,680 But do you have any specific challenges? 580 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,760 I think I'd love to hear, unless you have one around others, but I'd love to hear around 581 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,840 some of the challenges, maybe when you were starting to build out ph me nomad. 582 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,800 Obviously, that's a really robust tool, something that's really cool. 583 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:04,960 Can do some awesome stuff. 584 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,600 But I'm sure it didn't come easy to build that. 585 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,240 So what were maybe some of the challenges and triumphs that you accomplished with, with 586 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,720 building that out? 587 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:24,360 So the big, the biggest challenge with that was really figuring out how to understand where 588 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:26,240 PHP nomad fit into the relationship. 589 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,640 I kind of had this vision for what it would be, but I didn't, I knew what it needed to 590 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:30,640 do. 591 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,640 I knew the problem I needed to solve, right? 592 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,920 But all of that came from a lot of thinking, a lot of conversations, a lot of looking at 593 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,440 the problem, right? 594 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:49,880 But the biggest, I guess the biggest challenge was really getting a feel for what the patterns 595 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:54,240 would be and how, and establishing them and making sure they're consistent and understanding 596 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:55,240 those things. 597 00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:01,640 But really, once I understood its purpose, where it fit into everything, and I looked 598 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,920 at a few of the different patterns that I wanted to use, mostly like the strategy pattern 599 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:13,560 and things like that, I was able to basically start digging into how all those things work. 600 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,080 But it would be frustrating for a while when I was developing siren because I would be 601 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,600 building something and I would go, okay, now I need to access the database. 602 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,240 For example, oh my God, the database was a big one. 603 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,560 So I need, because WordPress doesn't have an ORM or any kind of comprehensive thing 604 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:30,560 like that. 605 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:31,560 You're writing queries. 606 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:38,640 So I had to basically build an ORM to make it work. 607 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:46,760 But I had to do it in a nomadic way so that because that was a cluster. 608 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,720 It was just a lot of effort, a lot of thinking. 609 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,240 Because one of the big things, again, nomadic, I wanted to be able to work across different 610 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:54,360 things. 611 00:29:54,360 --> 00:30:00,160 If I wanted later on to say this database that I'm accessing that has a list of all 612 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:07,400 of my collaborators in siren, for example, I don't necessarily know where that data is 613 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,400 coming from. 614 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,400 It's a data store. 615 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,080 It's not a database. 616 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,520 From PHP Nomad's perspective, there's a place that stores data. 617 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:15,520 That's all it knows. 618 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,560 It doesn't know what my SQL is. 619 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:19,880 It doesn't know what a REST API is. 620 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:20,880 It doesn't know what GraphQL is. 621 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,440 It doesn't know any of that stuff. 622 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,280 All it knows is that there's a place that it can go and say, hey, I need this and it 623 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,800 goes and it gets it. 624 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:35,640 So I had to figure out how to decouple my SQL and the database layer from the data store 625 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:36,640 layer. 626 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,200 And there was just a lot of complexity that went into that. 627 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,960 But the really cool result of it now is everything is a data store. 628 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:52,400 So now, later on, if I decide, hey, instead of accessing this data from the collaborators 629 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,560 database table, we've actually moved that over to its own dedicated service on a different 630 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:57,560 server. 631 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,160 So we're going to access it via REST now. 632 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:00,360 Here's the strategy. 633 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,120 Here's what implements everything that you need to know. 634 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:04,520 Go do that instead. 635 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:05,520 Dang. 636 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,480 So it doesn't matter if something else is even non-my SQL then because, wow. 637 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:11,480 Okay. 638 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:12,480 It's completely decoupled. 639 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:13,480 Dang. 640 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:14,480 That's cool. 641 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:15,480 Yeah. 642 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:16,480 PHP Nomad doesn't know anything about anything. 643 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:23,320 It's just a middle layer that translates what you're doing into whatever you're integrating 644 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:24,320 with. 645 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:25,320 Right? 646 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,600 And the idea being it's as simple as switching out different packages and different loaders, 647 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:31,600 I call them. 648 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:32,600 Yeah. 649 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:33,600 Yeah. 650 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:34,600 Wow. 651 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,600 Okay. 652 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:36,600 Dang. 653 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:37,600 That's cool. 654 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,280 I mean, obviously, when you're talking about data, like anyone who's ever had to work with 655 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,880 my SQL or no SQL or any amount of large data, right? 656 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,360 That can be a nightmare. 657 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:49,240 But what a beautiful sort of solution and how you've brought that into PHP Nomad. 658 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,360 So now I want to go mess around with it. 659 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:52,360 I'm like, what can I do? 660 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:53,360 How can I? 661 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,400 I can really just release 1.0 yesterday. 662 00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:00,120 You know, I'm going to go check it out because I've been back into like my dev chops like 663 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:01,120 yesterday. 664 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,280 I hung out with someone who I interviewed on Monday and essentially like, as you know, 665 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:05,280 right? 666 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:10,840 Like as coming from the space that we're both in or came from or in right now, even building 667 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:11,840 is different. 668 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,040 And so when you go out into the world of sort of different languages and different stacks 669 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:16,960 and different systems, it's completely different. 670 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,080 And so I'm like, how do I even like start to build a new system of something I haven't 671 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:22,080 worked with before? 672 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,080 And what does that even look like? 673 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,400 And so we were starting to dive into it. 674 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,840 And it was just, it was like a moment of, okay, I had it really good over in these open source 675 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,520 PHP stacks where things were, you know, somewhat simple to work with. 676 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,640 But I feel like Nomad would sort of help, you know, venture out, right? 677 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,160 And give you that kind of in between. 678 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,960 So do you agree that that's applicable? 679 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,800 Because I think it'd be interesting for people who are those types of developers that are 680 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,680 really looking to venture out, whether it be because of the ecosystem right now, or just 681 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,960 whether it be generally, hey, I want to venture out from being a WordPress dev. 682 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:58,200 Yeah, I think, and I mean, in a lot of ways, it's solving that problem for me, right? 683 00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,560 I am a WordPress developer. 684 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,760 Big problem I've had is that I want to get out of being just a WordPress developer. 685 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,960 I want to be, I've built complicated things, right? 686 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,760 And in a lot of ways, WordPress developers don't have it as easy as Lareville developers, 687 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:12,760 right? 688 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,560 Because we have, we don't have the tooling, right? 689 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:20,200 And it's certainly self-inflicted in a lot of ways, but there's decisions that we can't 690 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:21,200 make, right? 691 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:26,480 Like if we're going to do legacy stuff in WordPress, we can't change or won't change. 692 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:34,760 So with that, I've built a lot of crazy complicated things that's way harder than it should have 693 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:35,760 been. 694 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,680 That if you did it in Lareville, it's easy. 695 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,560 A few commands that automatically scaffold everything you need and you put it all together. 696 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,160 And I'm not saying, I'm not trying to discount Lareville developers by any means. 697 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,760 I envy you. 698 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,920 But the point is, I'm a very capable programmer. 699 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,440 And I know a lot of WordPress developers who are absolutely capable developers as well. 700 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,600 They just feel trapped because they've worked inside of this context of the WordPress way, 701 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,640 come hell or high water. 702 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,160 And basically, yeah. 703 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:18,760 So it does present a challenge where it's like, okay, how do I go from that to not that? 704 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,320 It's a big, and it's not just about learning the new language. 705 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,360 It's also finding the clientele, finding the opportunities, finding the work. 706 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,880 There's a bridge that has to exist between those two things. 707 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:33,880 And for me, PHP Nomad has become that because it allows me to work in WordPress, but to 708 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,440 learn PHP Nomad at the same time. 709 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:41,880 While I'm learning PHP Nomad, I'm learning a new skill that is applicable to WordPress 710 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:47,240 that lets me accomplish things in my current setup with my current team, with my current 711 00:34:47,240 --> 00:34:50,760 skills, my current, everything, my network, all that stuff. 712 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,360 I can just start using PHP Nomad to build Nomadic WordPress plugins instead of just 713 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,400 a normal WordPress plugin. 714 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:03,880 And then now I can go out and start finding opportunities outside of WordPress with the 715 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:09,680 confidence that I already know how to build software outside of WordPress now because 716 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,920 PHP Nomad gave me that bridge. 717 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:12,920 Yeah. 718 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:13,920 That's what I figured. 719 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,560 I wanted to shed light on that because I think that's a beautiful thing for anyone who is 720 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,000 feeling like that. 721 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,120 I think I've got even just a little imposter syndrome myself. 722 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,960 After being in the WordPress ecosystem as heavily as I was, I shifted into more of the 723 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,480 DevOps sort of ecosystem. 724 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:31,600 And I loved that because it was different, testing, batch scripting, servers and all 725 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:32,600 the things. 726 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,100 And I loved that and I enjoyed that, but it still didn't necessarily expand my programming 727 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:40,800 skills in a direction where I can start to build different apps. 728 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,480 It expanded my server knowledge and expanded all those different infrastructure types of 729 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,800 insights and things, which is beautiful. 730 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:49,800 But I agree. 731 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,160 And so, yeah, summary, check out digital PHP Nomad. 732 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,560 I plan to do the same. 733 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:56,560 Okay. 734 00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:01,560 So last question, I'm going to kind of wrap them up together. 735 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:06,680 Where do you go either when you're stuck or when you're looking for a new solution or 736 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:07,680 a tool? 737 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,080 I know you're one to sort of like dive in and kind of solve challenges, but maybe there's 738 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,880 opportunities and times when you bring in a tool where you build your own, but when 739 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,280 you're technically stuck or you're just, you can't find a solution, what's your go-to 740 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:25,720 in terms of that sort of, okay, here's the hierarchy of the resources and maybe people 741 00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:28,000 or whatever that you might reach out to. 742 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,000 Yep. 743 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,600 So the first thing I think about is, have I looked at the problem enough? 744 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,720 Nine times out of 10, developers haven't looked at the problem enough and we can solve the 745 00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:39,120 problem by looking at it more. 746 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,680 That's why rubber ducking exists. 747 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:41,680 Exactly. 748 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:42,680 So the GPT example, you're sure? 749 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:43,680 GPT example, yes. 750 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,280 Chad GPT is my rubber duck now. 751 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:47,560 Yeah, I love it. 752 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:48,880 Because it talks back to me. 753 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,240 So and not only does it talk back to me, but I let it lead the conversation. 754 00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:54,560 Do you know what I mean? 755 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:55,560 Yeah. 756 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:56,560 Yep. 757 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:57,560 That's power. 758 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:58,560 Yeah. 759 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,600 So anyway, so usually it starts there. 760 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:03,760 Yep. 761 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,560 And oftentimes I'll find, as I'm talking through the problem, I'll realize there's a critical 762 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,640 piece of information that I don't know or I'm not sure about. 763 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:18,920 And it's massaging those details out and finding that not, if I'm going to stick to that metaphor. 764 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:26,960 And going and figuring out that problem first and then usually I'm able to solve the real 765 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,040 problem. 766 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,560 We love to solve, we love problem solving, but... 767 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,160 Yes, we do. 768 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,920 It's funny how, if you think about it that term, it's problem solving. 769 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:38,960 We love to solve problems. 770 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,800 That doesn't necessarily mean we love to think about problems. 771 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:46,800 But thinking about problems and looking at those problems is very much a part of solving. 772 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,240 And I think it's oftentimes important. 773 00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:54,200 Also sleep, big fan of that, would recommend. 774 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,440 I can't tell you the number of times I've worked. 775 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,800 There's a specific pressure I get right here in my head that I know I've overworked for 776 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:00,800 the day. 777 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:09,120 And sometimes I will doggedly keep, if I've got a bone, I'm just, I can't let it go. 778 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,120 I have to solve this problem. 779 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:11,120 I have to do this thing. 780 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,280 This happened to me yesterday. 781 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:17,720 I was trying to, so I'm working on, I just launched 1.0 of PHP Nomad, trying to get all 782 00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:23,600 that stuff to work with Siren because obviously I was using pre-release versions of PHP Nomad. 783 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,880 So I'm kind of in dependency hell right now with Siren. 784 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,840 Self-inflicted, I kept on putting it off. 785 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:30,840 It's okay. 786 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:31,840 It's a part of the process. 787 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:32,840 I don't mind. 788 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:39,560 But it was like 504 and I've been working on it for like six hours and I know I've got 789 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,040 this pressure in my head and I'm like, I just, I just want more thing. 790 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,040 I'm almost there. 791 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:45,040 I've almost got this one problem. 792 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:46,040 I've almost got this figured out. 793 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,040 I've almost got this thing. 794 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,960 I'll stop after I do this. 795 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:57,160 And I realize and this is not, I'm not perfect at this, but this is something I'm always 796 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,480 trying to do better. 797 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,320 Is Alex, you feel like crap right now. 798 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:02,320 Feel your head. 799 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:03,320 Think about your head. 800 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:04,400 Think about your state right now. 801 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:05,400 This doesn't end well. 802 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,400 Yep. 803 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:07,400 Stop. 804 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:08,400 You're going to get frustrated. 805 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:09,400 Yeah. 806 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:10,400 Put it away. 807 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,760 The best thing I've ever done for myself whenever it comes to solving a problem is opening 808 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,160 myself up to being able to, in the code, add a to do. 809 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,440 That is in all capitals, it says to do, you were here. 810 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:21,760 That's the first thing it says. 811 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,440 So that later when I open it up, I can do a search for to do, you were here so I can 812 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,440 find out where I was. 813 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,280 And then I describe what I was thinking about in that moment before I quit. 814 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,080 That's as soon as I put that down. 815 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,200 It's like it gives me permission because I feel like I'm always afraid to stop because 816 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:37,960 I don't want to lose my train of thought. 817 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:38,960 Same. 818 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:43,120 But doing that, it lets me transfer that train of thought and put the state of my brain as 819 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,760 much as I can where I can find it in the context where it matters. 820 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:48,760 Right. 821 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:49,760 Yeah. 822 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:50,760 So I'll do that. 823 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,720 So to do, you were here, you were solving blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 824 00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:54,000 Here's what you were trying to think about. 825 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,320 Here's how you were trying to solve it. 826 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:56,320 Yep. 827 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,440 I close the computer and I walk away and I go to sleep. 828 00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:59,440 Yeah. 829 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,440 I don't go straight to sleep. 830 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:01,440 Yeah, yeah. 831 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:02,440 I get it. 832 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:03,440 I go straight to sleep. 833 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:04,440 I move on. 834 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:05,440 I move on. 835 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:06,440 Yeah. 836 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:07,440 My brain goes to sleep. 837 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:08,440 I stop solving problems for the day. 838 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:09,440 Yeah. 839 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,000 And you know, usually my subconscious takes it from there and I wake up the next day and 840 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,800 I have a cup of coffee and I'm like, oh, this isn't that hard. 841 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,200 Why was I struggling with this? 842 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,440 Oh, I know because my brain was fried. 843 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:21,440 Duh. 844 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:22,440 Yep. 845 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:23,440 Exactly. 846 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:24,440 Oh, I love that so much. 847 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:25,440 All right. 848 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,960 So I have to go to a little adorable toddler Christmas performance. 849 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:30,960 Yay. 850 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:31,960 I know, right? 851 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:32,960 It's so cute. 852 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,880 But before we wrap up, where can people find you? 853 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,560 And then on top of it, you are with your work and everything that you're doing. 854 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,360 We chatted about this before the show. 855 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:43,560 You're looking to expand a little bit. 856 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,240 And I'd love for you to share more for anyone who's listening. 857 00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:49,600 If they're intrigued or interested or like, what is this? 858 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,320 Tell me more. 859 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,640 Tell us all those goodies before we wrap up. 860 00:40:53,640 --> 00:41:00,240 So Novatorious, I'm doing software, I'm building solutions using the nomadic method, right? 861 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:04,520 Everything that we talked about applies to my business and everything obviously. 862 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:09,200 From building Siren to building different client projects that we're doing to building 863 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,600 what, everything from building websites and SEO strategies and things like that all the 864 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,880 way over to building software and automations and things like that. 865 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,600 So we're running a pretty wide gamut on the things that we're solving, the problems we're 866 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:24,040 solving and how we're doing it. 867 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:28,800 What I'm looking for is people who want to run with me, who want to try this, who want 868 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:34,680 to use PHP Nomad, who thinks the nomadic method is pretty cool, who is interested in potentially 869 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:39,520 transitioning themselves out of WordPress or maybe just learning some programming things 870 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,200 or maybe you're a professional and you're looking to take on some side work or things 871 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,200 like that. 872 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:45,560 I have a lot of stuff going on. 873 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,680 I have a lot of projects that I'm bringing in over the next couple of quarters. 874 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,440 I'm looking for professionals. 875 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:58,680 I'm looking for not just like domain level experts who could potentially take on whole 876 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,600 projects and work with me on projects on a team with other people and not by yourself 877 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:03,600 on a contract. 878 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,600 It's not full-time contracts. 879 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:11,400 But I'm also looking for people who are looking for what I call snacks. 880 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:19,400 So just a little task, little thing here and there that you can sit down and you can realistically 881 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,840 knock it out in its entirety from start to finish. 882 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:29,280 No ongoing obligations, no nothing within a day, within one to six hours of your work, 883 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,040 you working on a problem. 884 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:32,480 But then it's gone. 885 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,080 You don't have to ever hear about it again and you get paid for it. 886 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,080 That's a tight thing. 887 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,080 Yes, for sure. 888 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,200 If you're working full-time and you're looking to make a little bit of extra money on the 889 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,920 side, this is a great opportunity. 890 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,640 You can think of it almost like Uber for developers or Uber for, you know what I mean, where it's 891 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:55,040 like you are, you've got a full-time job or whatever and maybe on Friday nights, if you're 892 00:42:55,040 --> 00:43:00,280 not doing anything else, you're not busy or whatever, you pick up a couple one or two 893 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:05,160 things on Novatorious's bounty board basically. 894 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,760 Do that task, get it done and get paid for it. 895 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:15,960 So that's another thing that I'm developing, I'm setting up, looking for tons of people 896 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:16,960 for that. 897 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,040 Love that. 898 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,600 I love that so much. 899 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,280 Can you hear my pugs in the background? 900 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:22,280 Nope, I saw one. 901 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,920 I saw one sneak by earlier, but no, I can't hear them at all. 902 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,640 They're playing and I'm like, oh man, should I yell at them or not? 903 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:29,640 Very silly. 904 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:30,640 No. 905 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:31,640 That's good. 906 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,160 Okay, that is awesome. 907 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,840 All right, so what domain should they go to? 908 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,720 Oh, I'm going to share some links in the description. 909 00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:42,160 I'm going to show notes for everyone after the fact, but maybe kind of like, what's the 910 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,680 primary domain they can go find you right now? 911 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:51,840 The main domain where you can find, so I've got a few, but the main one for me personally 912 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,400 is alexstanderford.com. 913 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:59,480 So if you just want to connect with me personally, that's a good spot to go. 914 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:04,320 I have a website that talks more about Novatorious and our beliefs of being free, being able 915 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:05,320 to work from anywhere. 916 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:11,040 A big part of Novatorious's belief is that we should be celebrating working from home, 917 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,240 not just being yoked to our desk. 918 00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:16,560 All a lot of people have done is move their desk from their office at work to their office 919 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,480 at home. 920 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,680 I travel for four years on a camper all over the country, taking advantage of the fact 921 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,080 that I worked remotely and a big part of my ethos and a big part of the business that 922 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,600 I'm building is around encouraging other people to do the same. 923 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:37,400 I'm not, it's early still, but I'm working on getting to the point to where there's 924 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,240 things in the system that allow and enable people to do that. 925 00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:42,440 So that's a whole another conversation. 926 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:50,240 But anyway, so Novatorious, which is N-O-V-A-T-O-R-I dot U-S, Novatorious. 927 00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:55,480 And then phpnomad.com will take you directly to the GitHub repository, the GitHub organization 928 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,080 for PHP Nomad. 929 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,520 If you're looking to get started with PHP Nomad or give it a try, there's actually an 930 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,960 MVC framework template that is on PHP Nomad site. 931 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:10,040 I will start it, make sure it starts so that it's easy to find if you go to phpnomad.com. 932 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,920 Basically that will allow you to create a GitHub repository to be able to start trying 933 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,440 out and experimenting and tinkering with PHP Nomad. 934 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,440 All right. 935 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,440 Well it has been absolutely amazing having you on the show. 936 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,320 Thank you so much for coming on and I hope that everyone has a fabulous rest of their 937 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:27,320 day. 938 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:28,320 Yeah, thanks. 939 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:29,320 We'll see you around. 940 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:30,320 Enjoy your show. 941 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:59,320 Bye.