Jayne: Hi, Heather!
Heather: Hi, Jayne!
Jayne: Hello, friends! And welcome to People in the Squeeze. So how are you today, Heather? Anything new?  
Heather: We had a big night last night. I'm a little tired. I have to be honest. It's been a big week, big night, big everything. So much energy, so much love, so much support, and so much affirmation, and so many opportunities to do what we intended to do, right? To embrace support and see people that are in the squeeze.
Heather: It was awesome. It was really awesome.
Jayne: it was awesome. So everybody out there, we hosted our launch party last night for our new book, Thriving in Chaos: Navigating the Challenges of Aging Parents. And we were so grateful to be in this beautiful space. And [00:01:00] have a lot of friends and family and new friends.
Heather: Yes. Yes.
Jayne: People who came because they were sent by other friends which was just such a delight.
Jayne: And it was so great to have these conversations with people in such meaningful ways. And, and again, once again. As always, to step into people's space as they are in the squeeze. It was just powerful.
Heather: And to have someone walk up and say, "Oh, I just saw your post." "Oh, I just saw your reel." "Oh, I just heard your podcast." And right, and then fill in the blank, Jayne, all these scenarios, all these places that we've talked about, and to see the person ahead of you to know, Hey, I have been there. I know that moment, just putting a parent in senior care, trying to get a parent to bring services in the home.
Heather: That those transition points and you can feel it and so to say, "I see you, I hear you." And [00:02:00] then just to watch the you can't see my hands right now, but it's like a the shoulders drop a little bit. You can hear breath get a little bit deeper and it just, I know you had this experience too, Jayne, but it just fills my heart because that.
Heather: That's it. Like that is it. That's our purpose. And to help power up and elevate. But to just see and affirm and to welcome in and that piece that you are not alone. In fact, I made everybody in the room say it. "You are not alone!"
Jayne: Are not alone. Well, one of my favorite moments was meeting a new friend brought by a dear friend that I've had for a long time. And she's actually very much in the squeeze right now. And it was great. She was listening to our podcast and she was saying to me, she's like, "I was listening to it. And then I realized, I'm like, This is for me! This is for me!"
Heather: Yes.
Jayne: "No one talks to me. This is for me!" Which is such an amazing gift. I was like, yes, yes, it's for [00:03:00] you. I was so grateful for that moment. When someone comes to you and gives you feedback, you're always gracious for it, but when they are really connecting with what you're saying, and it's meaningful to them, well, that's, there's no words to describe it. Yeah, it's so amazing.
Heather: Agreed. It was quite amazing.
Jayne: I am sharing with you in the little bit of exhaustion. So we'll see how we ride this wave today in the podcast. Cause it is a very special podcast today, which more on later. But just to get us ready, as is our practice, we're going to take a beat and find our breath.
Jayne: And today we're going to do a meditation that's going to help us release tension. Going into whatever is ahead of you, it is important to just be able to connect with your breath and give yourself an opportunity to release whatever it is that you're carrying. I want you to close your eyes and soften your gaze and let your hands rest gently [00:04:00] on your lap. Take a slow, deep breath through your nose, and feel your belly expand. Now exhale through your mouth, and release any tension. Again, inhale deeply, and let your breath fill you up. Hold for a moment, now exhale, and let go of any of that stress. Bring your awareness to your shoulders as you breathe. Inhale. Do you notice any tightness? As you exhale, imagine that tension melting away. Shift your focus to your jaw as you inhale. And as you exhale, let it soften. Let your tongue rest easy and your face [00:05:00] relax. With each inhale, invite in the calm. With each exhale, release what no longer serves you. When you're ready, gently bring your attention back to the room. You can open your eyes. And now carry that sense of ease with you through the day.
Heather: Beautiful. Well, Jayne, if I can dive in here, we have our first guest and we are so delighted. I want to describe for you a scene this was a screening for Cabrini, which was a fabulous movie. And so walking in the space, I was like, okay, who do I need to sit next to?
Heather: And I mean, some people were seated, but you know, where should I sit? So I saw this lovely woman at the end of the row, and I thought that's the seat for me. And I [00:06:00] sat down. Hello. Hello. So kind. So warm. And I said, tell me what you do. And she goes, 'I love to serve.' And I thought, Oh my gosh, in this whole movie theater, I get to pick the perfect seat because I love to serve too. And then to be able to hear her story and to hear and learn about her professional work, about her personal passion and her heart. And when she said, Jayne, this was the part that I was like, I wanted to call you immediately. And she said, "I just love seniors."
Heather: And I 
Jayne: Ahhhh! 
Heather: like, okay, so it was cool when she said she loved to serve, but even cooler when she said, I just love seniors. So it's my true pleasure and honor to introduce Carey Lindeman. visionary founder and CEO of Promise Care. When I talk to entrepreneurs, when I talk to founders of companies, they are [00:07:00] so clear in the need.
Heather: So who they serve and what they deliver. And Carey has done this in a couple of spaces. She helps people at the beginning of their journeys. She brings two decades of experiences of supporting people with customized home care services. Her work focuses more on the aging parent. Adult child is part of that conversation. And so to be able to hear and to learn from her about how from her perspective, she supports these families through big transitions and help people know where to begin.
Heather: When I heard all of that, I was like, 'Oh, please be on our podcast. Please, please, please.' So I want to welcome Carey and I'm super excited for our conversation of what that is going to look like today. 
Jayne: Carey, welcome.
Carey: Thank you. Thank you. It's so great to be here. Such an honor, Jayne [00:08:00] and Heather. I such an honor and thank you for that beautiful introduction. I hope I can live up to it.
Jayne: Well, Carey, I wonder if you could just take a few minutes and share your story and your experience working with people on this squeeze.
Carey: Well, I was also doing lay care ministry like Heather. And it's a great experience to do this through the church. And I learned a lot. And I thought, I want to be like a grief counselor for young women. And they didn't call me and I called the church and I said, Well, we're really do you need help?
Carey: And they said, 'Well, we need help with senior outreach'. I said, 'Oh, my gosh, I don't know if I can do that.'
Heather: I love that honesty. Yeah.
Carey: I don't have the background. I don't have the, do I have the love for it? I'm not sure. So, but I said, I'm going to go where God calls me to go. So I did start and started low and behold. I was blown [00:09:00] away by seniors, their stories, their lives, what they've given to society. It was amazing. So then from there, I decided that I wanted to start my own home care business. I been toying with a lot of different ideas of what to do, but that made it extremely clear after I started working with seniors that I really wanted to serve them, give them a life that, was honoring to them.
Carey: I wanted them to grow old with dignity. And so that's where I began and to have really not changed the model over the last 20 years. We are small boutique customized and have been serving seniors in that way and have had some amazing clients.
Jayne: Well, you spend a lot of time with families that are going through this big transition. I [00:10:00] presume, correct? 
Carey: Many times, it is the family.
Jayne: And they're all experiencing it isn't just this the aging person. It's it becomes a whole family affair. So you take on a lot of those dynamics. In our book Thriving in Chaos, which is now available on Amazon.
Jayne: Nice little plug there. We have coined this phase where people are moving into more supports and going through this transitory phase in their life. We've called it the adolescence of aging. And just for our conversation this morning, I want to just take a moment and read from our chapter three, surviving the adolescence of aging so we can set up and discuss what this transitory phase is from independence through interdependence and dependence. So we're going to focus in our conversation really here on interdependence. This is from the book. Things get a little bit more nuanced as time progresses. Interdependence is the murky middle ground where everyone's adjusting to new roles. [00:11:00] Even if no one wants to admit it, your parents may now ask for help with small things, like asking you to help open their stubborn jar or fix the iPad that keeps acting up, for example, but they still maintain a sense of pride and self sufficiency.
Jayne: The shift to interdependence is subtle at first. It's easy to think that asking you to install a new smoke alarm is just one, a one off favor. But soon, you're fielding daily calls about internet connections and whether they've seen the remote. The underlying tension here", I know we shouldn't laugh, but it is real because it's hard not to.
Heather: I don't want to interrupt. I'm sorry. 
Jayne: It's true. It's true. "And the underlying tension here, well, parents may feel like their independence is being chipped away. While children grapple with the slow reality of this new balancing act, and at this point, parents can still live independently, but begin to need assistance with some tasks like driving, home maintenance [00:12:00] or managing medical appointments.
Jayne: And they may rely on their adult children or other family members for help." 
Jayne: I imagine this all sounds too familiar. How do you see this age of life? 
Carey: Well, I guess what I've seen is, people wait a little bit too long. They try to say, oh, well, that's just a one off that's just happening one time, and then they see it, more and more. And they, they go over maybe sometimes, three weeks later, a month later, six months later, and into the home of their parents and their, then they really know something's off. Things just do not look the same. And then that's when they start calling and searching for help. It's a very tough place to be because there really isn't any information out there to help people. This is where to [00:13:00] begin, which is something that the two of you, this is how you're getting people to recognize that there's a community there that, that doesn't have to be done independently, but they can depend on other people.
Heather: I'm going to dive in because we're hearing tips from Carey. And so one of the tips that she shared at the beginning, and so many times we are dropping our aging parent off at the door or we're meeting them at events and not getting into their home. So one of the tips that we talk about that's so important is being able to walk around the space and all of a sudden you're like, wow.
Heather: So it's in the bedroom or in the refrigerator. You'll be able to see. What's going on? So that's a tip. I just wanted to share that. That's really helpful. Carey. In the beginning, we don't know what we don't know. Some of us are 1000 miles away from our aging parent. And so we're having phone conversations.
Heather: And to your point, it sounds like it's okay. But boy, when you take that walk [00:14:00] around, Or begin to even a friend of mine went to stay with his aging parent for a couple of weeks, worked remotely, and it was like, oh, boy, we need some supports.
Heather: And that's, Jayne, what I love about Carey and how she talks is that, with small supports, with these small micro, I call micro adjustments. That parent is able to be more interdependent, more independent, interdependent for a longer period of time. And that's what, one of my biggest takeaways and learning from Carey.
Heather: And you, that's another thing you said is people wait too long. And I, you can't see me now. My hands are up in the air. And I just want to say absolutely true, true, true. People wait too long. People wait long. 
Jayne: Carey, why do you think why people wait too long?
Carey: I hate to say they're in denial because I don't really like to put it that way, but they see their parent as, as their parent. [00:15:00] And they're just a little bit afraid to start telling the parent what to do. I mean, it's something we, we grow up. I mean, there are parents, right?
Carey: They're, they're who we look up to many times, or depending on the history. Maybe we didn't have a good history growing up with our parents, but it's, it's one of those things. It's a little, tricky to start telling your parent what to do and how they should be living their life. 
Carey: There's some very, very strong parental figures in a family dynamic. It's just a little tough to cross that line and say, Hey, dad... 
Jayne: so tell me a little bit more then, because you find yourselves in these intersections then, what has worked for you in, helping these people continue and facilitate this conversation?
Carey: Well, you're just trying to, push me into a home. You're just trying to, 
Heather: Totally.
Carey: You [00:16:00] just don't want to take care of me. 
Jayne: Well, and I can see that, but I bet you as a friend, you probably have, I'm imagining this, right, that you probably have some key phrases that you lean in on that help you reframe the context of the conversation to disarm them from like, oh, here's another person who's going to try and take control or another person that's going to try and tell me what to do.
Jayne: Describe for me how you reframe that as a friend and talk to them as a friend. What are some of the key questions you ask them?
Carey: Well, first of all, I come in as an outsider. I have no history with the family. I have experience doing what I do. I learned their stories. I try to relate to them in a way that's easy and not threatening. And we're not going to make any changes here. You're the boss. We're not the boss. [00:17:00] We work for you. Just know that. We're not going to push you into doing anything that you don't want to do. And then we, we talk about all the different things that, that maybe we could help with. We can go get groceries or we can go do it together. I start out very easy. Maybe one to two days a week, a few hours a day is really all we need. I like to start slow. Let's try it. We have no binding contract here. Let's give it a shot. Let's see how it works.
Carey: And if we bring someone in that you don't click with, we'll get you somebody else. So I try to make it very non threatening. And I said, the other thing is. You're the parent. Let's keep you the parent. Let's keep your daughter and son, your children, [00:18:00] and they can come over and they have lunch with you or you go out to dinner.
Carey: Or if this person can't get out, they can spend time at home with their children, their grandchildren . Everybody's got their place. We more or less build a team. Yes, there's still help from the family. Of course, that's ideal when the family is still there and they still want to help, but they're not having to take the total burden on their shoulders.
Carey: We want to give them peace of mind. We want to give everyone in the whole circle, peace of mind, but we're going to build a team for you.
Jayne: You gave a great example about how somebody gave you a call and he opened the fridge and his mom just had hot dog buns in there. How did that conversation go?
Carey: She was very open to the whole idea. We didn't talk about the hotdog buns. We didn't talk about anything that she was doing wrong. We just talked [00:19:00] about having that extra set of hands for her. You know, it's, it's snowy, it's icy. We, we don't want you to fall. We want you to keep your independence as long as possible. 
Jayne: I think you just gave everybody some magic sauce there, Carey. As the adult child, I think our goal is to keep them safe. And all we have in our mind is those worst case scenarios. Right? And then the worst case scenarios start to happen.
Jayne: They start to fall or they aren't, they aren't eating or they aren't doing those things. And so to immediately go to, well, you're not eating and you're falling and you're pointing out all the things that are going wrong. And, and it's like, Oh no, no, no, no. And it's human nature. You're looking at your parent who you love and you want them to stay independent. The thing with the adult children though is that we come at it with fear. And I think what you've just done is reframed [00:20:00] it.
Jayne: We want you to be safe. We want you to be healthy. We want you to be living independent, and not focusing on those things. That's such a great tip, Carey. That's such a great tip.
Carey: Well and these people really should be honored and revered, I believe, and I want for them to grow old with dignity. I don't want them to feel like they've failed or, or like they can't keep up anymore. Aging is a natural process and to make them feel that they still have value. Yes, they need help that, but that does not have anything to do with their, lack of value and what they can offer. And we always try to find out what is it that interests them? What did they do? What games do they like to play? What books do they like [00:21:00] to read? Because those are all things that, yes, there's care, but we also, that relationship is key. We don't go in and check off a list. And say, all right, I'm done. See you later. There's a relationship that goes that we sit down, we talk, we share. 
Carey: I just have a little story. One time when I first started this business, I was, of course, one of the caregivers and I went out to a woman's home and I made her dinner.
Carey: And changed her sheets, did her laundry, did all these things. And I, I grabbed a few morsels in the kitchen, ate and served her dinner. And she said, what are you having? And I said, well, I already, ate something said, would you please bring some food out and sit with me? And, and I thought, ding, ding, this is why we're in business.
Carey: This is, this is the real [00:22:00] reason here is that interaction and that sharing time.
Jayne: That's such a touching story. Wow. So then when people avoid these interventions early, they end up missing this whole interdependence phase. They move more quickly into having to need full supports and they lose their independence quicker.
Jayne: A lot of people make choices about not having this conversation because it's a difficult conversation. It comes with a lot of anxiety and tension and anticipation and not wanting to tell your parent what to do. But if we know the formula is early interventions equal longer time as independence, what advice could you give people to start these conversations early or what tricks could you give them that they could use?
Carey: Well, first of all, the two of you are a huge, huge [00:23:00] resource for people, because again, it's a community that you're creating. People are not alone in this. This is happening more and more and more. I believe that's really important. And I think the other thing is to call. I have many resources that I have learned about over the years, but there, there are resources that I'm willing to share. Whether home care is right, whether another type of care is, is better. And it's, it's just depending on the time. Sometimes, at the beginning, adult daycare is, is great.
Jayne: Is that the right word for it though? Because I wonder if adult daycare is helping us out. 
Carey: I know. But, it works! It's, I think a lot of people don't even think about it, but it's really pretty cool.
Jayne: Oh my gosh, I know, but my heart breaks a tiny bit because we're infantilizing them, right? Like [00:24:00] daycare is where we send our kids, right? There might be opportunity for a new name there.
Carey: Yes, I agree. I agree. But, you know, it can be a really great resource to just to get started. As technology is taking over their little devices that you can put in your parents home, like I'm, we're going to start testing this little screen that you can put in and if the real person checks in, I don't know, it's maybe five minutes or something like that, but that's sometimes all somebody needs. I say, Explore, I mean, like I say, I'm very open. There are other people out there that are very open to this. Googling it. Isn't the answer because I think you get a lot of people with their handout, like, oh, visit our assisted living.
Carey: You're going to love it. And that's not what we're, we don't want that. We want resources. And I think there's just not a lot of resources that you're going to [00:25:00] find out about you, you need to find out who those people are that can give you the resources without trying to sell you something.
Jayne: Have you seen technology be helpful? Like I keep seeing these ads for cameras that are going on televisions and that talks about being able to dynamically drop into your loved one's home. And that's, that's the sole intent and purpose. Have you found technology to be helpful in prolonging independence?
Carey: It can be. I'm very wary of money making schemes. So I would definitely if, if that's something that is going to be done, I would consult with someone that you trust talking about that. There are things that can be used, and they're, they're trying so many things right now.
Carey: It's still in the infancy stage. I don't think that it's perfected.
Jayne: What would make it [00:26:00] better?
Carey: I think it's just time. We're going to start testing something. Someone that has this technology company that I happen to know personally said can we try this? I said, I'd love to. It's a bandaid basically, but it's something that can help in the short term.
Jayne: Well that is a perfect place for us to pause our conversation with Carey. She continues on and it turns out as she continues on, we have a whole other episode.
Jayne: So we're just gonna take a moment here. What were some of the highlights for you?
Heather: Yeah, I loved how she can speak from her experience. Decades of experience about walking with families, adult children, caring for aging parents. And so when she was talking about people facing the adolescents of aging, and it was just so personable, so relatable and so wonderful to hear her perspective from the professional side and Jayne, honestly I needed to hear it [00:27:00] is the importance of the ability to support our aging parents, that they can age with dignity. And I think sometimes when we're in the squeeze and we're just like, I gotta get through this, it was a good reminder. Like it was kind of a wake up, like a, this is important, Heather, their perspective
Heather: 'cause honestly, you just get caught up in the churn of your perspective. So I really appreciated that.
Jayne: I found it fascinating about her experience in the adolescence of aging and some of the things that she sees in her 20 plus years of experience, the biggest takeaway she had is that people wait too long. 
Jayne: They wait until they're out in a crisis before they start making decisions. It's almost like a breadcrumb trail, a Hansel and Gretel trail, all the way to that point, to the crisis. Boom, there you are.
Jayne: But there are all these opportunities leading up to that where there could have been micro adjustments, small changes that could [00:28:00] have really made a difference in helping people live independently longer.
Heather: Well, and I like how she called out, you know, 'cause we talk about denial and my hair kind of stands up on end because it was like it denial. And, and she said, you know, there's fear. And, and I totally relate to that. There is fear. These conversations are hard. And so to hear her tips and her suggestions and another part that just struck me so strongly was she said, you know, let's just have a conversation. Let's just talk about it, like what's important to you.
Heather: And I don't know, maybe some of us can't get to that place, but I think many of us, if we're prepared. If we have that knowledge and that mindset going into a conversation and focusing on the small pieces. So let's not go for the, the home run big one, but let's just, let's just get to first base.
Heather: Let's just take a step forward was really profound for me too.
Jayne: Well, exactly. You don't have [00:29:00] to solve all the problems that are happening down the pipeline. In our hearts, we're so focused on safety and we jumped to the worst case scenario. Really the way she started out these conversations, is just as a friend and like, well, what can we do right now? And what can you do? What do you wanna keep and what don't you want? Which is a very different question than what do you need? What do you want to change? What do you want to be different?
Heather: Even the conversation about what do you want for dinner or what's in the fridge? You know, I'd freak out if I saw hamburger buns. Like that was the only thing I'd be like, oh my gosh, you know, poor nutrition, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, you know what? If you ate pretty good during the day and you wanna have some ice cream, go for it.
Heather: Oh, that was good for me to hear. Yep.
Heather: That was really good hear. 
Jayne: Carey's got all sorts of nuggets. Well, we would love you all to be a part of this conversation. Ask us questions at people in the squeeze.com. We wanna hear from you. What do you wanna know about? [00:30:00] What's on your mind? What is keeping you up at night?
Jayne: Drop us a line also in our dms, we're at people in the squeeze on Instagram and TikTok. Always super excited that we have our first book in a series "Thriving in Chaos, Navigating the Challenges of Aging Parents", which is now available on Amazon. I love that
Jayne: it is a number one bestselling new release in aging parents on Amazon. That gives me such joy. We share that milestone with everyone who is in the squeeze. 
Jayne: So until we meet again, we want you to know that when the days are really big and really hard that we see you. You are not alone, and you are doing the impossible and it's gonna be okay.
Heather: It is going to be okay.
Jayne: Heather, this has been such a delight. I can't wait for part two.
Jayne: We'll see you soon. 
Heather: See you soon.