Jayne: Hi, Heather!
Heather: Hi, Jayne!
Jayne: Hi, friends, and welcome to People in the Squeeze. How are you, Heather?
Heather: Oh my gosh. I have been so excited and looking forward to be able to share this story with you and our friends because it resonates so, so strongly. I was talking to a 20 something and it's just interesting. to hear from a younger generation's perspective of what we are walking through.
 I have four 20 somethings, well, three and an 18 year old in my life and I just love hearing their perspective, because it is helpful. It's like, giving me language and helping me to see even more clearly what this being in the squeeze is like.
And so this wonderful young lady came in and she said, "Oh, Oh, Mrs. D, Mrs. D, I have a story for you." And she was excited because the word is out about people in the squeeze And so she goes, " you have to share the story." Over the holidays, her grandfather, so she's talking about her mom's dad. And, and they were fine. They were independent. They were in the world. Grandma, grandpa, like doing all the things they want to be doing. Grandpa fell and hit his head and pretty quickly went from ER to passing away. And it was just absolutely, completely unexpected, stunning.
And so now grandma is on the radar. She was talking about watching her mom struggle with this loss, talking about her struggling with the loss. And now, it's grandma, and guess what? They've not really seen or known that grandma was having some cognitive issues. And come to find out, grandma is undiagnosed with some pretty advanced dementia.
And so now grandma has to be placed in a home pretty quickly. Because grandma has to be safe. And, and so now it's not only about grief and loss of grandpa, but it's placing grandma in a home. It is taking care of the house.
I mean, all the things we done, Jayne, all the things over holidays, like in a short compressed period of time .
Jayne: So all of this took place , over the holidays.
Heather: Correct. Compressed. 
Jayne: Oh my, 
Heather: Right. It was an oh my. And she was like, you know, I've heard my daughter talk about what you were working on, People in the Squeeze, but just did not know what it was until we were in it.
Jayne: Oh my gosh 
Heather: It was like, right. It was stunning. Absolutely stunning. 
Jayne:  It is true that I think we don't have a true appreciation of being a person in the squeeze until you're in the squeeze. But I'm, curious, had it not occurred to them or were they just sort of like enjoying the fact that everybody seemed to be pretty healthy?
Heather: Pretty healthy. And I mean, I think there's a whole nother dynamic, which is probably an entirely different topic for a different podcast of when the generation above really tries to protect and not fully share how much support one of them is needing. And so it's kind of masking, covering, not really being forthright around the needs and we might not just see it, we might not, you know, in our interactions, they might be brief, they might be at events, I mean, not really sitting down and having eyes or even knowing what to for. 
Jayne: Oh, I, yep.
Heather: Right. And then all of a sudden, it's like, "Oh, dear!"
Jayne: All of a sudden. 
 It's just one of those things where similarly we kept getting information about my father in law and when we called him because he's, 600 plus miles away , he seemed to have it together.
So we're like, "oh, okay, yeah." And then you know, you end up in the hospital and 67 days later, they've passed quite unexpectedly, but that wasn't without some effort to try and get on his radar about where he was at, but you're right, he was not willing to share. And that's fascinating. 
You know what? We should put a pin it. 
We want to take a moment again, as is our practice to just ease into this moment so that we can all be in the right space to have these conversations. There's nothing like being already zingy and wired up and then trying to have a thoughtful conversation.
So before we get started, let's take a moment and connect with our breath. And we're going to do a meditation that is focused on our breath to connect with our heart and actually create some peace and calm and joy in our heart. So it's very simple and very brief and again, something you can do everywhere.
You're going to want to take a good cleansing breath. So inhale. Exhale. Now, the next time we take a big cleansing breath, we're going to inhale and we're going to make sure that our exhale is actually longer than our inhale. And when we get to the end of that, we're going to take a moment and visualize gratitude and joy in your heart area. And we're going to sit with that as you breathe through it. So we're going to do this again with a cleansing breath and then exhale long. And then when you get to the end of that breath, just imagine light and love and bliss. So we can start now. Exhale. Now visualize light and love and joy and gratitude and bliss. And feel that area in your heart begin to lighten as you breathe naturally. 
Heather: Beautiful.
Jayne: Nice, 
isn't it? So easy to, yeah, to step out. You find yourself in a heated moment. So easy to just step away and say, I need to take a breath and bring that lightness back into your heart. All right. So I understand you were at a networking event , recently.
Heather: I was I'm kind of out of practice. I'm not gonna lie between COVID and being really busy with, you know, caring for an aging parent have not been in this networking space in a long time. So it was just fascinating to walk into this room. And I mean, the room is full of 40 to 60 something it was a women's networking event.
These women are height of their career like just beautiful professionals, leaders in their space. And it is getting to know each other and kind of what's happening. And so going around the circle and I'm the newbie. And so, "Oh, tell us about your day job" and "What are you doing?" And Jayne, when I started talking about "Thriving in Chaos", and today is a big day around "Thriving in Chaos", our upcoming book, one, they were just so beautifully supportive. Love that. Love that support from fellow women. Two, their hands went up. I'm like, wait! Are my calling on questions? Are we in a classroom? And they're like, I was there.
I was there. I'm there. I had to step back from my job because I couldn't handle it. Oh, another woman across the way. Me too. And I had to go to part time. I had to leave my job. Heather, we're all your customers. And they say, do you have it with you? Like, where is this book? And how do I get my hands on it? And I need several copies. Because it's not only for me. But it's for my friends and my coworkers. And I started to get a little, panicky. Like this is a lot like this it's coming, coming. And then I thought, no, I heard your voice, Jayne. We are bringing something into the world that's meeting an unmet need.
 This is our gift of sharing our experience and creating space for others to talk about it. So what I thought is so interesting to the podcast today is, gosh, you know this room full of professional women, like they know how to talk about things. They know how to get the resources they need.
Why? Why, why, why is it so taboo? Why don't they have what they need when they have what they need for their professional space, for raising kids, talking about retirement, like all those conversations are going on in the room. The conversation that wasn't happening in the room until I entered those circles was caring for aging parents. 
Jayne: And they are so ernest and the energy, it just amps up because you know that's something that they've been sitting on or that they haven't had an outlet for. And it is fascinating to me. Why are people so passionate about it when you start talking about this. But why are we the ones bringing it up to them? The more that you and I are engaging with people about this topic of caring for your aging parents, we're finding that people are grateful for the opportunity to be able to support their parents and be able to be in a position where they can do something about it.
 The side of it that is unexpected is that they didn't realize what would be involved in that. They're suddenly all underwater and they had no idea. So they're drowning a little bit. But I think in the other way, we have this very unhealthy relationship in this country with aging and death. And it happens. It is part of the life cycle.
Heather: And, and, keep it private. We whisper.
Jayne: People age and people age differently.
Heather: Yes. 
Jayne: And people need different things. 
Heather: Say it again, Jayne. Say it again. 
Jayne: People age and they age differently and we just don't talk about it because in this country, I don't know that we know how to talk about aging. 
 Largely, everything is from the perspective of the aging person.
It doesn't acknowledge this phase of aging, right? It just skims over it. You are either living well and living independently and living your best life or your survivors are working through your estate. 
Heather: Yeah, and I think even it's kind of interesting some of the conversations we've had is how our healthcare systems have really influenced that from the aging parent perspective. And so in some of the conversations we've had with healthcare professionals even as we're trying to explain, wait, wait, wait, there's these adult children and we're really struggling and it's really hard.
And to watch the insight and that light bulb moment of "Oh, oh my goodness, there, this is hard for the adult children!" And the health consequences to that, that's another podcast, so I'm going to plant the seed around that, but it's that raising awareness of broadening it to it's not only about the aging parent, but the adult children as well. 
Jayne: It begs a question: well, then why don't people talk about it? I know that just from my own personal experience some of that has come from people not willing to admit that they might need more help or feeling uncomfortable, uncertain or feeling even the shame. The anticipation of aging and admitting that they're going into that phase is hard in the moment and so they resist it. And so on both sides between the aging parent and the adult children who are trying to support, there's this tension.
Because you see it, nobody can really deny it, but there's this tension that comes from it. And frankly, this is just a very American thing. In other parts of the world, they've come to this very beautiful place about this phase of life.
 Even as you get into other cultures and countries, they have a different relationship with death and with dying and with aging, yes, the aging umbrella where they appreciate and see it as part of the cycle of life. It's not necessarily embraced or welcome, but understood and prepared for and appreciated because generationally they see how all of it is interconnected. So the word aging in our country just as a whole isn't cutting it. It's just too broad and it's too varied to be helpful.
It doesn't really do the experience justice. Because you can have somebody who is 55 and just getting AARP be in the same category as somebody who is in like your friend's story, right? Somebody who is being cared for by their spouse and so that the rest of the family is oblivious to the cognitive decline.
Heather: And it, I think it's more common than we realize. In our experiences of just having pieces of the story, not the whole story, and then something happens and the curtain is lifted, and it's, "Oh my goodness, we're not prepared. Here we go."
Jayne: Yeah. 
Heather: Mhm. 
Jayne: And that's the moment, right? Like, how do you not get to that moment?
How do you not get to that moment where you are wholly unprepared and somehow did not anticipate at some point this would be happening? 
For us to have a conversation about aging, we need to do a better job of identifying and naming the holistic experience of aging in all of its parts. Where we see people aging out of that independence, where they are living independent and transitioning into phases of life where they're more interdependent or that they are more dependent on others.
 I'm wondering what would happen if we accepted that this life stage, this transition period -- because we have the privilege of being able to live longer-- what if we accepted that there is going to be a transitory phase where we do move to a place of independence to interdependence to dependence. And could it possibly make our lives better? 
Heather: Well, and Jayne, we've talked a lot about this, haven't we? How do we get away from a number? How do we pivot the conversation to thinking about what we need? And that's why we are so darn excited about our new book, "Thriving in Chaos; Navigating the Challenges of Aging Parents", which is available. TODAY on Amazon, where we introduce a name for this transitional phase or transitional phases that frankly, you know, Jayne, I keep hearing your voice. Let's normalize it. Like let's normalize it. Let's be more comfortable. Let's have language for it. Let's be able to talk about this as normal development and progression in being a human being. 
And so when we came up with the Adolescence of Aging, for us, that power of one being able to think about what are the transitions from childhood to adulthood, right? And then what are the transitions when we go from adulthood and we need more supports .
And that's where we came up with language around transitioning from self sufficiency or independence to dependence. And many people experience this and it's not, it's not associated with an age, right? It's the when things are shifting, and sometimes that's physical abilities, cognitive abilities, emotional adjustments, shifts in social roles, what are those transition points where more support is needed, going in a positive frame and then naming that this role reversal this, you know, adult parent, or your parent, an adult child, that this time, this transition can be really challenging. 
Jayne:  The book beautifully delves into this topic and really trying to give it context and color so that we all understand what we mean by the Adolescence of Aging. 
Heather: So reading from the book: "We call it the Adolescence of Aging, it is a parallel to the transition from childhood to adulthood, marked by adolescence of youth and the transition from independence to dependence. Many people experience as they age, both stage involve significant changes in physical and cognitive abilities, emotional adjustments, and shifts in social roles.
This role reversal can be emotionally challenging for both parties. For aging parents, the loss of independence can feel like a loss of identity and control leading to feelings of frustration, fear, and even resentment. They may struggle to accept help, insisting that they are capable, even when not. This can lead to conflicts and misunderstandings as children try to balance respecting their parents autonomy, ensuring their safety and well being.
For adult children, stepping into caring for an aging parent is often fraught with challenges. The emotional strain of watching a parent decline coupled with the responsibility of managing their care can be overwhelming. It's also challenging to navigate the delicate balance between providing support and maintaining their parent's dignity.
This tension can strain the relationship where the parent can feel infantilized or disempowered and the child may feel burdened or guilt ridden. The demands of caring for aging parents don't exist in a vacuum. For many, these responsibilities come when they are already managing relationships with children at different life stages, toddlers who need constant care, teenagers grappling with their identity crisis, or grade school children requiring academic and emotional support.
The need to provide care and attention to both aging parents and young children can stretch adult children's emotional resources to the breaking point. Maintaining healthy relationships with partners, children, and friends while managing these caregiving demands add another layer of complexity. The challenge becomes even more significant in the absence of spousal support due to a partner's demanding job, emotional distance, or imagine being a single parent.
Adult children may find themselves isolated with little to no time for social connections or self care leading to feelings of loneliness and exhaustion." So that was a glimpse of the journey this book takes you on. 
Jayne: I am so grateful that we are in this place where we can actually talk about this and have conversations about the adolescence of aging. Acknowledge that it exists, recognize, know that it's on horizon, be able to have thoughtful conversations with our aging parents and because they recognize it and they know it is part of their development. It is a natural part of the human experience to go through these phases. We can anticipate it with a little less tension. The grit in the gears is not so gritty. right? And that these conversations can be a bit more free flowing. But most of all, you can plan for it. As the adult child, you can look at your life around you and be able to prepare for it and put systems in place. Or you can help your aging parent put systems in place to live through that interdependence phase longer. 
 A lot of people wait till it's too late. And if they had anticipated their interdependent needs, something as simple as cleaning or additional supports or physical therapy, they could have extended their interdependence and their autonomy much longer before moving into dependence.
Heather: And that's why I'm just so delighted to bring our work into the world, thriving in chaos on navigating the challenges of aging parents, because it helps give us language. It helps gives us what muscles as adult children we need to power up so that we can navigate this space better. Jayne, that is our hope that we can make this a better, better place, better transition, more normal for you and for I and for our world.
So I've loved this conversation today, Jayne. And we would love for you, our listeners to join the conversation. We'd love to have you share your story with us at people and squeeze dot com. Or drop us a line in our DMs at people in the squeeze on the socials.
 Please subscribe. Please share. There are new episodes every other Tuesday. And so Jayne, I'm gonna close this out for today. 
Jayne: Bring it home.
Heather: Until we meet again. We want you to know when the days are really big and really hard that we see you. You are not alone.
You are doing the impossible and it's going to be okay.
Jayne: It is going to be okay. Have a great rest of your day, Heather.
Heather: You too, Jayne. Good to see you.