WEBVTT

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Has your research taken you far and wide? Have

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you traveled to meet these people? Or do you

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just, how do you conduct your interviews? So,

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I mean, like I said, I like to mostly, well,

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a lot of my subjects are dead. What? I'm out

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of here. So that is unfortunate. Hello and welcome

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to Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Podcast. We're your

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hosts, Vincent Hannum and Matt Levine. And we're

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talking about all our favorite monster movies,

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the good, the bad, and the downright campy, and

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asking if they stand the test of time. Traditional

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Kaiju, creature features, space invaders, the

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supernatural, and everything in between. All

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strange beasts welcome here. where sensuous babies

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offer themselves in ritual sacrifice to his brute

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embrace. Godzilla has a brain about this size.

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He is sheer brute force. While Kong is a thinking

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animal, his brain is considerably larger, about

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ten times the size of this gorilla's skull. Being

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instinctive rivals, there is no doubt that they

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will attempt to destroy one another. King Kong

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vs. Godzilla, heading for their colossal collision.

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Shattering every obstacle that stands between

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them in the most fantastic rampage of annihilation

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ever recorded on film. See King Kong stamp Tokyo

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into the ground, holding a beautiful girl in

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his grasp. See Godzilla destroy an entire army.

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See King Kong trapped by the blazing barrier

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of a billion volts. But nothing, nobody can stop

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the great showdown when King Kong and Godzilla

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meet to fight for survival of the fittest. And

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Matt, we have a strange beast with us tonight.

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Waiting in the Wings, Tom Shabilla. He's an author.

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He's a writer. He's written a new book. We love

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having guests on the show who are here to talk

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about their own art and works in the monster

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movie genre. I'm thinking about Sean Pryor, for

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one, who came on and talked about his book Kaiju

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Unleashed. So we're pretty excited. Indeed. Yeah,

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it's always fun. We had Steffi on for a recent

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episode, Steffi Theodora, to talk about The Abominable

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Snowman. So yeah, we always love having guest

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stars on here. Special thanks to our Patreon

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members. You know who you are, but I'm going

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to say your names because that's what you're

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owed. And that goes out to Jason, Chris, Sean,

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Peggy, Superfan Don, the aforementioned Steffi

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Theodora. And our anonymous patron. Thank you

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for your support. We hope you like what we got.

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Indeed. Thank you. And we're, I was going to

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mention, we were showing prayers coming back

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on the show. We're going to be talking about,

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well, this is, you're bringing this movie to

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the podcast. You can talk about this if you want

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to. That's exactly what I was going to say. Look

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at us. We're, we're mind melding. Yeah. Right.

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Blackula, 1972, blaxploitation film. Honestly,

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I only know it by reputation, which maybe the

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reputation I've heard is something to be made

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fun of. It's Blackula. It's the Black Dracula.

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But after hearing from a lot of noted historians,

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and all this I'll get into on our episode, but

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including Sean Pryor himself, who he chose to

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bring this movie to the podcast. Because he says

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there's a lot to get from this movie. And I'm

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really eager to dig into that legacy and maybe

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give that movie its just desserts. Yeah, I've

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heard mostly good things about it. I know the

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title is a little bit ridiculous, but I've wanted

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to see it for a long time. Yeah, I mean, you

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know, it's one of my favorite sort of intersections

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between like horror movies and kind of a unique

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cultural perspective on like horror movie lore.

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So I'm surprised that it's taken me so long to

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actually watch it. I know. And they're same here.

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I've never seen it. There's a sequel, Scream,

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Blackula, Scream. I mean, there are a dozen imitators

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out there. Blackenstein. Is that right? Yeah,

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that sounds right. I've never seen that movie

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either. Yeah. But there are some. So the when

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I talk about film historians, I'm talking about

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this documentary I've mentioned on the series

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before called Horror Noir. It's a Shudder original.

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Would highly recommend. So it's just a really

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insightful documentary about horror films and

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the history of horror through the black African

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-American experience. Earlier films on newer

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films and the filmmakers behind them. And it's

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just a really rich discussion when you're getting

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people of different perspectives at the table.

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Totally, yeah. I've seen some episodes of that

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show because it's like an ongoing series, right?

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It might have been. Released in episodic, episodic

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format. Gotcha. I haven't seen the whole thing,

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but it is a really good show. I did want to shout

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out another movie called Ganja and Hess, which

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is another kind of vampire movie from an African

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-American perspective. That's a really great

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movie that's actually playing at the Heights

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Theater later this month, Friday, February 20th.

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So I want to shout that out. It's one of a kind,

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directed by Bill Gunn. I think it's totally different

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from Blackula, as far as I understand. I've never

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seen Blackula, but Ganja and Hess is great. Highly

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recommend that one. That's fantastic. I've never

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seen it either, but what I have or what I know

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of it, my impression is more of a somber piece

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of film making, which we love on this show as

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much as the campy stuff. Totally, yeah. Maybe

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closer to The Addiction than Blackula. We had

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recently talked about that movie. Right, right.

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Matt, you know what movie I just recently saw?

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Have you heard of Bell, Book, and Candle? Yeah,

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I've seen that movie. You've seen it? Yeah, it's

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a lot of fun. I loved it. Yeah. Yeah, tell me

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more. I just watched it last night. Yeah, yeah,

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yeah, yeah. Well, what I wrote on Letterboxd

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was a whimsical performance from James Stewart.

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Elsa Lanchester, I loved. That was a wonderful

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surprise. Jack Lemmon. But I think Kim Novak

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just steals the show. Her presence is electric

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in that movie. Fantastic. And you know what I

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was truly impressed with? The cinematography.

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Do you know who did that? You know, I don't.

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I don't remember. James Wong Howe. Wow. We've

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talked about him on the show before, right? We

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have. I can't remember with what. Because he's

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done like a hundred movies. He's very prolific.

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Yeah. Yeah, he's an amazing cinematographer and

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just a very interesting life story, I think.

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You know, he shot a lot of movies in like the

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classical Hollywood era. And I think maybe the

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assumption is that, you know, he's Chinese ethnically,

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his family is Chinese. And like, so he was Chinese

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American. And I just feel like the assumption

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is like there were not too many cinematographers

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who were, you know, not white at that period

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of classical Hollywood filmmaking. And he, you

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know, it's not true. And he's one good example

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of that. So fantastic. We'll talk more about

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The Book and Candle later, I'm sure. Hasn't this

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cat got anything better to do? Couldn't you give

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him something to read? I'm more in love with

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you than I've ever been with anyone. I'm Sidney

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Redlich. You don't know me, but I think I want

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to see you. Good evening, Nicholas. Good evening,

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kids. You startled me. Ring the bell, close the

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book, quench the candle. I'm one. You're one

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what? One of the people that the book's about,

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and Nicky's one too. The only perversions that

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can be comfortably condemned are the perversions

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of others. I will persist and survive without

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God's or society's sanction. I will not be tortured.

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I will not be punished. I will not be guilty.

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The blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, which was

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shed for thee, preserved thy body and soul for

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everlasting life. Drink this in remembrance that

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Christ's blood was shed for thee. and be thankful.

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He's not a criminal. He's a victim. Dr. Stein

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would like to see you in his laboratory. What

00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:23.320
brings you to California? Well, I just arrived

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from New York. My fiance was wounded in Vietnam,

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and the doctors there wrote and told me he was

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being transferred to the Veterans Hospital here.

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He was seriously wounded when a landmine went

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off under him. Eddie, this is Dr. Stein, the

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doctor I studied with when I was in school. Now,

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tell me once again, Eddie, what do you feel?

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I was my middle finger. That's correct. Dr. Stein,

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look at this. Yeah, welcome, Tom. Thank you.

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Thank you. You know, the great thing about our

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setup is that it's not live. We're not recording

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live. Like I said, I'm a professor at a community

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college and I have a late night class on Tuesday

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that I occasionally teach. Well, we thank you

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for making the time. Oh yeah, no problem. I just

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like talking about this stuff. Us too. And Tom

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has written a book called King Kong versus Godzilla.

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The most colossal conflict the screen has ever

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known. Yes. It's a work of love to be perfectly

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honest with you. And I have two books prior to

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this. One was called Primetime 1966 -67. It was

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about the first season of color television, or

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entirely color television, I should say. And

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then the second one was called James Bond and

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the 60s Spy Craze, and dealt with the James Bond

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movies and knockoffs and spoofs and exploitation

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of the era. But my first love of everything is

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monsters. I love, I'm a monster kid. I've always

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loved monster movies. And I've been involved

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with that. I've written for Scream magazine,

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Monster Bash magazine. And when I take it to

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conventions, like Monster Bash convention, things

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like that, people would say, well, where's the

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book about monsters? Like, this is what we want.

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And this is what we expect from you. And so I

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was like, I don't know what to write about. I

00:14:05.389 --> 00:14:10.590
felt like everything that I love has been written

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about to death. I love Godzilla. I love King

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Kong. I love Dracula, Frankenstein, Wolfman.

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I love my classic monsters. But everything's

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kind of been done to death. And I wanted to focus

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on a singular subject. And so I was kind of like

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looking through stuff. And I started writing

00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.500
about, my original idea actually was a monster

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rally film. So films with multiple monsters.

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So I started with the Universal. I started writing

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about those. I got on to a couple later things.

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And I started writing about King Kong versus

00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:50.309
Godzilla. And I'm like, oh man. This is an awesome

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subject. This is such a cool movie. It's such

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a fun movie. I love both these monsters. And

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then I said, has there been a book written about

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this movie? And there hasn't. I'm like, jackpot.

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So I scrapped everything that I had at that point.

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And I went gung -ho into this film. And yeah,

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so here I am with it. So it was a lot of research.

00:15:14.250 --> 00:15:18.200
And like I said, it was a real... labor of love

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i guess you could say that's such a real that's

00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:25.820
such a real journey as a writer i mean matt and

00:15:25.820 --> 00:15:29.159
i are both writers and you know you're you're

00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:31.500
like okay it's been done to death but like what's

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the where's the angle i can get in and like add

00:15:34.379 --> 00:15:36.879
a fresh perspective and there's always opportunity

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for that sure and king kong versus godzilla the

00:15:40.899 --> 00:15:44.000
production backstory is so interesting and rich

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and yeah And Honda's involvement and how he,

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you know, his hesitation with the material and

00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:55.039
he himself, Honda, is thinking, what fresh perspective

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can I even lend to this genre monster movie that,

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I mean, at this point in Honda's output with

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Toho, right? He was feeling a little, I don't

00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:09.639
know, how would you describe it? His approach

00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:13.279
to the rubber suit monster genre. From what I've

00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:16.850
kind of gathered. He definitely had an interest

00:16:16.850 --> 00:16:21.149
in the subject. I think he probably was a little

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hesitant to bring a little bit more of a fun

00:16:25.549 --> 00:16:28.549
factor, something that would maybe appeal to

00:16:28.549 --> 00:16:34.460
children. In the book, I did an interview with

00:16:34.460 --> 00:16:37.659
Linda Miller, who was in King Kong Escapes. And

00:16:37.659 --> 00:16:40.539
she wasn't in King Kong vs. Godzilla. Unfortunately,

00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.539
I couldn't find anybody from King Kong vs. Godzilla

00:16:43.539 --> 00:16:47.580
who's alive and or willing to talk to me. And

00:16:47.580 --> 00:16:51.220
she doesn't have a language barrier here. So

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I thought, well, OK, she's the next best thing.

00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:56.399
Linda Miller was super nice. She lives in Virginia.

00:16:57.629 --> 00:17:01.129
She speaks English and she wants to talk about

00:17:01.129 --> 00:17:06.890
her experiences because she didn't. She was kind

00:17:06.890 --> 00:17:09.769
of out of it, not out of it, but she she had

00:17:09.769 --> 00:17:11.990
no idea that anybody cared about this kind of

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stuff. She had no idea that there was a podcast

00:17:14.470 --> 00:17:17.269
like this that was talking. It was obsessing

00:17:17.269 --> 00:17:20.390
over her movies. I should say she was in one

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movie and she was in the green slime, but she

00:17:22.609 --> 00:17:27.150
was a extra. But. I asked her about that. I asked

00:17:27.150 --> 00:17:28.789
her about Ishiro Honda and I asked her about

00:17:28.789 --> 00:17:31.230
like, you know, what, what kind of, what sense

00:17:31.230 --> 00:17:33.609
did you get out of him? Did you get a sense that

00:17:33.609 --> 00:17:36.190
he really loved this stuff or did you get a sense

00:17:36.190 --> 00:17:39.930
like he was a company man and, or salary, you

00:17:39.930 --> 00:17:42.509
know, salary man, I guess. And, you know, and,

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and, and really liked making this stuff and,

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and her, you know, kind of, kind of experience

00:17:47.190 --> 00:17:49.529
was like, he really liked, you know, yeah, he

00:17:49.529 --> 00:17:52.369
was probably given marching orders from Toho.

00:17:52.710 --> 00:17:57.160
Yeah. He probably, you know, didn't have a whole

00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:59.440
lot of say in what he was going to do, but he

00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.980
did love the genre. So clearly he took it in

00:18:02.980 --> 00:18:08.279
a way that he took what he loved. He did what

00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:10.779
he loved. And that was making these movies. And

00:18:10.779 --> 00:18:15.839
he and Tuberaya both loved King Kong. So I think

00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:19.579
that this was their chance to make that monster

00:18:19.579 --> 00:18:22.700
that influenced them to begin with. That's such

00:18:22.700 --> 00:18:26.450
a great point. Like that, I often I guess hadn't

00:18:26.450 --> 00:18:29.009
thought about before the fact that we take King

00:18:29.009 --> 00:18:33.049
Kong for granted. But in 1962, this was the first

00:18:33.049 --> 00:18:37.410
Kong film in 30 years. Yeah, that's a big deal.

00:18:37.549 --> 00:18:39.569
And now these these guys who they themselves,

00:18:39.829 --> 00:18:41.750
you could say, were monster kids, Tsuburaya and

00:18:41.750 --> 00:18:44.930
Honda. They love King Kong. And here they are

00:18:44.930 --> 00:18:47.930
getting a chance, getting a crack at it. Yeah,

00:18:48.029 --> 00:18:50.329
they were definitely part of that, you know,

00:18:50.329 --> 00:18:53.309
first wave, first generation of monster kids.

00:18:54.009 --> 00:18:59.309
of people that discovered this stuff before famous

00:18:59.309 --> 00:19:01.410
monsters of film land magazine before the shock

00:19:01.410 --> 00:19:04.509
package you know uh you know where you could

00:19:04.509 --> 00:19:08.490
say definitely guys like you know ed wood in

00:19:08.490 --> 00:19:11.789
america even you know where where he was you

00:19:11.789 --> 00:19:13.930
know trying to create these classic horror movies

00:19:13.930 --> 00:19:19.369
you know poorly In America. But they all were

00:19:19.369 --> 00:19:22.529
part of that generation. Yeah. That saw these

00:19:22.529 --> 00:19:24.890
movies originally and were inspired. And there

00:19:24.890 --> 00:19:28.390
was a bit of a wall in the late 30s of new people

00:19:28.390 --> 00:19:31.329
doing it and even in the 40s. I think of someone

00:19:31.329 --> 00:19:34.170
like Ray Harryhausen and Ray Bradbury, you know,

00:19:34.170 --> 00:19:36.410
they grew up. They're very outspoken in their

00:19:36.410 --> 00:19:38.589
interviews. Yeah, I saw King Kong when I was

00:19:38.589 --> 00:19:42.970
a kid in 1933. And now I want to do that. Yeah,

00:19:43.009 --> 00:19:47.019
absolutely. Yeah, and definitely King Kong. Yeah,

00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:51.500
King Kong did start it all. King Kong, that certainly

00:19:51.500 --> 00:19:55.500
inspired people. One thing that I, one, I guess,

00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:59.819
theory that I have in the book is that King Kong,

00:19:59.960 --> 00:20:07.500
in 1956, played on WOR, New York television,

00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:11.759
for a week straight. So twice a day, three times

00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.359
on the weekend. Which is incredible. And at a

00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.440
time when you had four television stations, maybe

00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:21.180
there were six in New York, which is incredible,

00:20:21.500 --> 00:20:25.160
which is, you know, just monumental. It apparently

00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:30.220
got monster ratings, no pun intended. And there

00:20:30.220 --> 00:20:32.819
it is, you know, people still care about this

00:20:32.819 --> 00:20:38.400
movie that at that point was 33 years old. So

00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:41.140
that really kicked off, again, kind of this television

00:20:41.140 --> 00:20:46.650
craze of... of monster movies. And yeah. And

00:20:46.650 --> 00:20:48.809
then, and then, so, so King Kong definitely always

00:20:48.809 --> 00:20:50.829
kicks this off. King Kong was always the catalyst

00:20:50.829 --> 00:20:55.250
of things, you know, from there we, we had movies

00:20:55.250 --> 00:20:59.069
like, you know, again, in, in the meantime, Godzilla

00:20:59.069 --> 00:21:01.089
eventually, you know, coming out later in that

00:21:01.089 --> 00:21:06.269
decade. So we, you know, Godzilla and yeah, everything

00:21:06.269 --> 00:21:10.529
else. So everything else, Godzilla and Kong,

00:21:10.670 --> 00:21:14.130
baby. Yeah. Tom, you talk about this a little

00:21:14.130 --> 00:21:15.470
bit in the book, but I was just wondering if

00:21:15.470 --> 00:21:17.309
you could talk a little bit about how you first

00:21:17.309 --> 00:21:18.970
got into monster movies when you were a kid.

00:21:19.049 --> 00:21:21.750
You write about watching old VHS tapes and everything.

00:21:21.789 --> 00:21:25.250
Yeah, it all started with my parents. I have

00:21:25.250 --> 00:21:29.849
a story in the book that apparently the day before

00:21:29.849 --> 00:21:32.710
I was born, it's the... The family story, the

00:21:32.710 --> 00:21:35.650
day before I was born, my mom watched a tape

00:21:35.650 --> 00:21:38.289
of the incredibly strange creatures that stopped

00:21:38.289 --> 00:21:41.450
living to become mixed up zombies. I never had

00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:44.769
a chance in life. Straight up. Doomed from the

00:21:44.769 --> 00:21:48.509
start. Yeah, I was doomed. And yeah, my dad kind

00:21:48.509 --> 00:21:52.789
of just obsessively recorded a lot of these things

00:21:52.789 --> 00:21:56.269
from Philadelphia television that were airing

00:21:56.269 --> 00:22:00.200
really cool movies at the time. King Kong was

00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:02.740
definitely on those tapes. I still have them.

00:22:02.819 --> 00:22:07.099
And I could go back to them occasionally. But

00:22:07.099 --> 00:22:12.440
yeah, they had a ton of really cool movies. And

00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:17.059
also, during that time, it was when Godzilla

00:22:17.059 --> 00:22:21.940
85 came out. And they had the Dr. Pepper commercials

00:22:21.940 --> 00:22:26.710
with Godzilla. So my first... run -ins with godzilla

00:22:26.710 --> 00:22:30.089
what were these dr pepper commercials you know

00:22:30.089 --> 00:22:35.329
where i i didn't quite know you know i feel like

00:22:35.329 --> 00:22:37.529
you had to have known who he is like maybe just

00:22:37.529 --> 00:22:40.430
instinctually i knew who godzilla was i didn't

00:22:40.430 --> 00:22:44.650
i wasn't i wasn't quite sure and uh so so watching

00:22:44.650 --> 00:22:47.029
you know just getting bad monster movies bad

00:22:47.029 --> 00:22:50.329
horror movies just just constantly and i never

00:22:50.329 --> 00:22:54.180
saw a difference like i i would have friends

00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:57.440
over my house and i'd say oh let's watch a movie

00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:01.440
and i'd pop in like you know robot monster or

00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.579
something and you're like what are we watching

00:23:04.579 --> 00:23:06.839
why are we watching a black and white movie like

00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:10.700
uh i don't understand this and i don't know i

00:23:10.700 --> 00:23:14.359
like it so you know that that's always been my

00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:18.440
my run -ins with with with these movies and yeah

00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:20.539
i talked about that i talked about the uh finding

00:23:20.539 --> 00:23:25.009
the the the Crestwood house books in my school

00:23:25.009 --> 00:23:28.490
library. I could still, if I walked into what

00:23:28.490 --> 00:23:33.529
was then the holy name of Jesus school, I could

00:23:33.529 --> 00:23:35.589
still tell you where those monster books were.

00:23:35.710 --> 00:23:40.250
God knows why they were there. If they're still

00:23:40.250 --> 00:23:44.109
there. Yeah, man. That's great. Matt and I talk

00:23:44.109 --> 00:23:46.829
about this all the time. Similar experiences.

00:23:46.849 --> 00:23:50.109
I grew up in the 90s when there was still that

00:23:50.109 --> 00:23:55.549
pre -internet subculture to monster movies. I'm

00:23:55.549 --> 00:24:00.210
going to show you my own tapes right now. Off

00:24:00.210 --> 00:24:04.529
of AMC, I would record The Invisible Man, Frankenstein

00:24:04.529 --> 00:24:07.150
Meets the Wolfman. I made my own little cover

00:24:07.150 --> 00:24:11.789
art. Oh, that's amazing. I love that. But then

00:24:11.789 --> 00:24:16.009
years ago, I got these digitized. did tapes so

00:24:16.009 --> 00:24:19.089
i have them on my hard drive now with all the

00:24:19.089 --> 00:24:21.930
old commercials and the static snow because the

00:24:21.930 --> 00:24:25.589
tapes are going on 30 years old now but they're

00:24:25.589 --> 00:24:29.309
they're pride they're uh little joys of pride

00:24:29.309 --> 00:24:32.970
for me there but then my mom she grew up i mean

00:24:32.970 --> 00:24:38.970
she she had like one old vhs copy of godzilla

00:24:38.970 --> 00:24:41.970
versus megalon and i wore that thing out growing

00:24:41.970 --> 00:24:46.049
up And then at my local video store, there were

00:24:46.049 --> 00:24:49.910
like the same four or five Godzilla movies that

00:24:49.910 --> 00:24:54.049
I would continuously rent out. And I actually

00:24:54.049 --> 00:24:57.269
forgot to return Godzilla vs. the Smog Monster

00:24:57.269 --> 00:25:00.930
when I was a kid. So I still have that in like

00:25:00.930 --> 00:25:04.690
the video store cassette tape. Good thing they

00:25:04.690 --> 00:25:06.890
probably went out of business because, you know,

00:25:06.970 --> 00:25:10.730
a really big fine. Most definitely. My video

00:25:10.730 --> 00:25:14.549
store, yeah, I would. consistently rent, you

00:25:14.549 --> 00:25:17.630
know, Godzilla movies and things like that because

00:25:17.630 --> 00:25:20.269
they had a thing. It was like older movies, which,

00:25:20.289 --> 00:25:22.349
you know, again, I didn't, I had no interest

00:25:22.349 --> 00:25:25.230
in watching a newer movie, but it was like three

00:25:25.230 --> 00:25:29.210
movies, three nights, $3. So perfect. You know,

00:25:29.230 --> 00:25:30.869
there's that, that was your weekend right there.

00:25:31.589 --> 00:25:35.940
I love it. I love how the book kind of, you know,

00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:37.740
you were just talking about like the rise of

00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:40.440
television and how that introduced so many people,

00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:42.299
especially young people to these older monster

00:25:42.299 --> 00:25:44.460
movies. And then, you know, the scope of the

00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:46.500
book is really vast. It talks about the Heisei

00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:48.500
era of Godzilla all the way up through like the

00:25:48.500 --> 00:25:51.259
more recent, you know, legendary pictures like

00:25:51.259 --> 00:25:53.500
monster rallies, as you were talking about. So

00:25:53.500 --> 00:25:56.039
I think it's cool that you use King Kong versus

00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:58.920
Godzilla to like chart the history of like monster

00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:01.460
movie fanship, you know? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.720
Quite frankly, then it's a sin that it took them

00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:08.220
this long to make another King Kong vs. Godzilla.

00:26:09.819 --> 00:26:14.880
Yeah, yeah. It sells itself. It's a movie that

00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:20.359
inherently you knew about. For whatever reason,

00:26:20.420 --> 00:26:23.279
you knew about this movie. People talked about

00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:27.720
this movie. I certainly remember, like you were

00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:30.700
saying, kind of those early... Not necessarily

00:26:30.700 --> 00:26:34.839
pre -internet days, but early, early internet

00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:38.119
days. I definitely remember people talking about

00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:43.980
the possibility of a sequel being made or something

00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:46.619
along those lines in the Heisei era. That was

00:26:46.619 --> 00:26:51.160
always brought up. So yeah, I definitely tried

00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:55.140
to chart that course of monster movies, especially

00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:59.039
kaiju films. using that as the backdrop, how

00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:05.140
this inspired those films, why, you know, Kong

00:27:05.140 --> 00:27:08.059
being left out of certain films is, again, just

00:27:08.059 --> 00:27:11.740
didn't make a whole lot of sense to me and probably

00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:13.779
would have made things a little bit better on

00:27:13.779 --> 00:27:17.200
occasion. Yeah. What are your thoughts, just

00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.599
like as a fan, when you watch some of the Showa

00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:21.700
era movies, like Destroy All Monsters, where

00:27:21.700 --> 00:27:24.980
it's this huge monster rally. Yeah. No Kong.

00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:29.140
Or the fact that... Kong, Toho's Kong, only got

00:27:29.140 --> 00:27:33.960
two pictures. And I mean, Toho had the rights

00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:36.460
to the character. Yeah, five years, apparently.

00:27:36.900 --> 00:27:41.920
I've said it before. If I was a film studio,

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:43.859
if I was Toho Studios, and you said, by the way,

00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:47.920
you have King Kong for five years. King Kong

00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:52.359
goes to space. King Kong goes underwater. King

00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:55.440
Kong versus Mothra. I didn't make it at all.

00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:58.839
I'd be using King Kong every day. I mean, what

00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:04.359
are you doing? It makes zero sense to me of why

00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:06.759
you would do that. But they didn't make... I

00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:10.440
love both movies. I do love King Kong vs. Godzilla.

00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:13.839
I do love King Kong Escapes. Even though I think

00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:15.480
that they should have made it a direct sequel.

00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:21.160
But... Yeah. King Kong Escapes, I'll be honest,

00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:25.609
I only recently saw. And I had maybe... I don't

00:28:25.609 --> 00:28:27.910
know why I had low expectations, but I just kind

00:28:27.910 --> 00:28:31.410
of did. But I was proven so wrong. That movie,

00:28:31.609 --> 00:28:34.910
I can't say enough about that movie. In terms

00:28:34.910 --> 00:28:37.809
of Honda's direction and his love letter to Kong,

00:28:38.049 --> 00:28:43.549
it is fantastically well made. He takes it really

00:28:43.549 --> 00:28:47.130
seriously, actually. As silly as McCanny Kong

00:28:47.130 --> 00:28:52.269
could be, there's a lot of tension and stakes

00:28:52.269 --> 00:28:55.940
in that movie, too. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of it apparently

00:28:55.940 --> 00:29:01.779
has to do with Rankin Bass, who owned the King

00:29:01.779 --> 00:29:05.019
Kong show at the time, and were doing it. And

00:29:05.019 --> 00:29:07.599
they wanted it in their direction. And there

00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:11.200
is a lot of overlap of the King Kong show and

00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:14.500
that movie, particularly the name of the family.

00:29:15.220 --> 00:29:18.779
The Doctor Who. Who is not Doctor Who, but Doctor

00:29:18.779 --> 00:29:25.190
Who. So, yeah, yeah, it's again, I really like

00:29:25.190 --> 00:29:27.990
that. I really do like that film. And but again,

00:29:28.109 --> 00:29:30.769
we could have also had Mechani -Kong versus Mechagodzilla.

00:29:31.569 --> 00:29:35.509
Just just saying. Because that was Mechani -Kong

00:29:35.509 --> 00:29:38.990
is a is a Toho original, right? Yeah. OK, so,

00:29:39.049 --> 00:29:42.009
well, that's my thing with Toho in general. They

00:29:42.009 --> 00:29:48.250
only reuse the same five main monsters. Megalon

00:29:48.250 --> 00:29:52.369
deserves more appearances. Gigan, you name it.

00:29:52.410 --> 00:29:55.269
I mean, there are so many characters in the catalog

00:29:55.269 --> 00:29:59.569
just not being used. Yeah, even especially, you

00:29:59.569 --> 00:30:05.150
know, I've in the newer one is Godzilla minus

00:30:05.150 --> 00:30:07.250
zero is going to be the new one, right? Yeah.

00:30:08.829 --> 00:30:11.970
I've seen a million fan theories in the last

00:30:11.970 --> 00:30:16.769
two months or so of what the monster could be

00:30:16.769 --> 00:30:21.000
that possibly Godzilla fights. Yeah. How do you

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.440
feel? What are your, you know, I would love to

00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:25.759
see the smog monster. I would love to, I would

00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:30.039
love to see that. One of my favorites, the movie's

00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:35.140
a little goofy, but just the, the, the cartoon

00:30:35.140 --> 00:30:37.759
element of that movie, I think is really goofy.

00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:41.640
I don't, I don't, I'm always confused, even just

00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:43.720
watching that a little bit, but I think he's

00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:47.940
a truly terrifying monster. You know, he has

00:30:47.940 --> 00:30:50.220
some really great scenes. I would like to see

00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:54.700
that. That would be, I think, part of the overall,

00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:57.539
you know, the message of that film certainly

00:30:57.539 --> 00:31:03.380
hasn't gone away. If anything, it's gotten worse.

00:31:03.859 --> 00:31:06.779
Yeah, honestly, more needed than ever. Yeah,

00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:10.700
more need of that than ever and who to save us

00:31:10.700 --> 00:31:16.420
than Godzilla. Yeah, than Godzilla. I would like

00:31:16.420 --> 00:31:19.980
to see that. But again, I'll take what I can

00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:24.599
get. Right. Anytime there's ever going to be

00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:26.539
a Godzilla movie, I will see it in the theaters.

00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:36.819
Even whatever just off the walls dumb fun that

00:31:36.819 --> 00:31:41.319
this legendary output has been. Matt and I saw

00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:44.920
the latest Godzilla X -Kong. with a group of

00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:47.660
people. We don't think it was like a great movie

00:31:47.660 --> 00:31:50.160
by any means, but we had a lot of fun watching

00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:52.960
it. Right. Oh yeah. Yeah. You can always have

00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:54.500
fun watching those films. You could always have

00:31:54.500 --> 00:31:57.500
fun watching a Godzilla film. So that's, that's,

00:31:57.500 --> 00:31:59.799
that's the one thing that stayed with them. I

00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:01.660
do miss the summation days though. You know,

00:32:01.660 --> 00:32:04.240
like the, like to see all the CGI it's impressive,

00:32:04.359 --> 00:32:06.079
but it just doesn't, it's not the same, you know?

00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:08.680
Yeah. I think it was, and I may have mentioned

00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:10.279
it in the book. I don't even remember at this

00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:13.700
point. I think it was Leonard Moulton. Leonard

00:32:13.700 --> 00:32:16.539
Maltin said something along the lines of, you

00:32:16.539 --> 00:32:21.500
know, when it's a man in a suit, you know it's

00:32:21.500 --> 00:32:24.599
fake, but you know it's real. You know, like,

00:32:24.619 --> 00:32:27.079
I could go to somewhere and I could touch that

00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:29.380
suit. Like, I could touch, I could hold the Godzilla

00:32:29.380 --> 00:32:31.539
suit and the King Kong suit. I could hold it

00:32:31.539 --> 00:32:35.180
up. I could touch it. It's tactile. But CGI,

00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:40.019
it looks real. But you know it's fake. You know

00:32:40.019 --> 00:32:44.900
it's zeros and ones that could be manipulated

00:32:44.900 --> 00:32:48.880
and deleted. So there's just something about

00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:53.539
it that's cool. Warmth, it's the same reason

00:32:53.539 --> 00:32:59.220
why probably I collect records. If I had the

00:32:59.220 --> 00:33:04.599
means and the patience and the space, I would

00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:08.240
be running film. You know why? I like going to

00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:10.740
a movie theater that shows film. There's now

00:33:10.740 --> 00:33:12.900
a movie theater about an hour from my house,

00:33:13.019 --> 00:33:16.619
the Gap Theater in Wind Gap, Pennsylvania, that

00:33:16.619 --> 00:33:20.220
shows exclusively 35 millimeter prints. And I'm

00:33:20.220 --> 00:33:23.740
like, I'm there. Two weeks ago, we showed King

00:33:23.740 --> 00:33:27.759
Kong versus Godzilla, and I was thrilled to death.

00:33:27.940 --> 00:33:30.039
I was more than happy to sponsor that. I was

00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:32.440
more than happy to do the intro and sell my books.

00:33:33.019 --> 00:33:36.240
I would have gone whether or not they let me

00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:40.359
around. That's fantastic. We saw, Matt and I

00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:44.839
went to see King Kong, the 33 King Kong. I'm

00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:46.859
at a local theater in Minneapolis that also just

00:33:46.859 --> 00:33:51.180
shows old movies on film. Nice. 35 millimeter.

00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:55.200
And there was an organ player down front just

00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:57.059
to see this movie I've seen a hundred times,

00:33:57.180 --> 00:33:59.900
but never on the big screen with a bunch of people

00:33:59.900 --> 00:34:02.700
behind me. It was a really great experience.

00:34:03.099 --> 00:34:07.059
Yeah. Yeah. Kong's a great, always a great movie

00:34:07.059 --> 00:34:09.920
to watch on the big screen. The thrills. As it

00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:14.420
was meant to be. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. I've incorporated

00:34:14.420 --> 00:34:17.860
Kong, even though it was, I don't know if it

00:34:17.860 --> 00:34:20.380
was before I was born, but I definitely have

00:34:20.380 --> 00:34:24.440
no, zero recollection of it. But I think it ended

00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:29.800
early 80s. But Kong is my Thanksgiving movie.

00:34:30.230 --> 00:34:32.590
I watched King Kong every Thanksgiving. Once

00:34:32.590 --> 00:34:35.590
again, WOR that originally showed Kong in the

00:34:35.590 --> 00:34:39.050
70s showed King Kong on Thanksgiving. Then they

00:34:39.050 --> 00:34:43.289
expanded it to Kong, Son of Kong and Mighty Joe

00:34:43.289 --> 00:34:46.710
Young. And then eventually expanded it to Black

00:34:46.710 --> 00:34:50.349
Friday and expanded it to, you know, those three

00:34:50.349 --> 00:34:53.670
films. And then Godzilla, King Kong versus Godzilla.

00:34:53.730 --> 00:34:55.530
And they would make a different Godzilla movie

00:34:55.530 --> 00:34:59.610
on, different Godzilla movies on. black friday

00:34:59.610 --> 00:35:04.150
so so uh yeah king kong is my that that's what

00:35:04.150 --> 00:35:07.630
i want to do on thanksgiving you know somebody

00:35:07.630 --> 00:35:10.489
says you know what what are you doing on thanksgiving

00:35:10.489 --> 00:35:13.250
is i'm watching king kong like i i don't i don't

00:35:13.250 --> 00:35:17.349
know what else there is totally what else do

00:35:17.349 --> 00:35:21.889
you need that's it yeah it's a it's america's

00:35:21.889 --> 00:35:24.550
monster yeah it goes perfect with thanksgiving

00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:30.139
Tom, you do talk in the book a little bit about

00:35:30.139 --> 00:35:32.639
Frankenstein Conquers the World, which is a movie

00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:34.260
that I like. It's such a bizarre movie. We've

00:35:34.260 --> 00:35:36.340
talked about that on the podcast before. But,

00:35:36.380 --> 00:35:38.500
you know, I get the sense like King Kong versus

00:35:38.500 --> 00:35:40.139
Godzilla, you wrote a whole book about it. So

00:35:40.139 --> 00:35:42.639
obviously that has like a special place of love

00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:45.800
in your heart. Do you why do you think Frankenstein

00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:48.179
Conquers the World maybe doesn't have that same

00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:52.000
appeal, at least for you personally? It doesn't

00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:55.519
have the same fun that King Kong versus Godzilla

00:35:55.519 --> 00:36:00.179
has, even though it. The premise of the film

00:36:00.179 --> 00:36:05.000
is dynamite. Just that first five minutes of

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:08.460
that film, I can watch all the time. Sometimes

00:36:08.460 --> 00:36:10.380
I just put on the first 10 minutes of that movie.

00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:15.300
Dr. Frankenstein is working for the Nazis. They

00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:17.840
move the heart. The heart gets moved to Japan.

00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:23.940
The atomic bomb. Wow. Who thought of that? That's

00:36:23.940 --> 00:36:28.269
incredible. So, but then after that, I think

00:36:28.269 --> 00:36:31.769
it just kind of, it goes downhill a little bit.

00:36:31.829 --> 00:36:34.750
I love the film. I can watch, again, I do watch

00:36:34.750 --> 00:36:37.909
it a lot, but sometimes I just need that first

00:36:37.909 --> 00:36:44.250
15, 10, 15 minutes of that movie. Yeah. How can

00:36:44.250 --> 00:36:46.150
you live up to that beginning? Yeah, you can't

00:36:46.150 --> 00:36:49.190
live up to that beginning. And it's not as fun.

00:36:49.349 --> 00:36:54.170
It's not, it's just simply not the same. It does

00:36:54.170 --> 00:36:58.090
have the giant octopus, which I do love. It has

00:36:58.090 --> 00:37:02.329
probably the original ending of the King Kong

00:37:02.329 --> 00:37:04.949
vs. Godzilla sequel, where they get sucked into

00:37:04.949 --> 00:37:08.590
the ground, things like that. Case in point,

00:37:08.730 --> 00:37:12.150
Toho, if you're listening, we need more giant

00:37:12.150 --> 00:37:15.650
Frankenstein kaiju movies. The gargantua is back.

00:37:16.329 --> 00:37:19.230
These are prime characters just sitting on the

00:37:19.230 --> 00:37:23.349
shelf too long. I completely agree. Again, if

00:37:23.349 --> 00:37:27.550
I had the means, the means and the characters,

00:37:27.869 --> 00:37:32.650
that would be there. There's somebody that, it

00:37:32.650 --> 00:37:38.530
is a studio that is very protective of their

00:37:38.530 --> 00:37:57.849
intellectual property. So use it. 1976. The American

00:37:57.849 --> 00:38:01.250
merchant vessel Petrox Explorer has just set

00:38:01.250 --> 00:38:04.210
sail from the port of Surabaya in search of oil.

00:38:04.389 --> 00:38:08.349
What they find will shock the world. We may be

00:38:08.349 --> 00:38:11.469
sailing into the history books. They will catch

00:38:11.469 --> 00:38:14.550
a stowaway. And landing on the beach of the skull,

00:38:14.809 --> 00:38:17.630
where he heard the roar of the greatest beast.

00:38:18.110 --> 00:38:21.510
They will rescue a beautiful castaway. She's

00:38:21.510 --> 00:38:30.059
alive! You know, maybe my luck has changed. And

00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:33.039
they will discover an uncharted island that is

00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:36.239
the home of the most incredible creature on the

00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:54.739
face of the earth. A creature called Kong. Dino

00:38:54.739 --> 00:38:56.900
De Laurentiis and Paramount Pictures present

00:38:56.900 --> 00:39:01.559
the most exciting original motion picture event

00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:22.690
of all time. King Kong. King Kong. A fantastic

00:39:22.690 --> 00:39:40.769
adventure. King Kong, a colossal achiever. King

00:39:40.769 --> 00:39:45.369
Kong, a motion picture filled with sights and

00:39:45.369 --> 00:39:50.239
sounds. unlike anything you've ever experienced

00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:56.280
before. King Kong. Don't flood the tank! She

00:39:56.280 --> 00:39:59.699
fell in! With Jeff Bridges, Charles Grodin, and

00:39:59.699 --> 00:40:02.900
introducing Jessica Lange as the beauty who charmed

00:40:02.900 --> 00:40:06.380
the beast. And starring the eighth wonder of

00:40:06.380 --> 00:40:21.090
the world, King Kong. In 1956, he first appeared

00:40:21.090 --> 00:40:23.469
on motion picture screens across the country.

00:40:23.730 --> 00:40:27.789
His impact on audiences was instantaneous and

00:40:27.789 --> 00:40:31.090
unprecedented. His acting technique was revolutionary.

00:40:31.489 --> 00:40:35.550
His presence, overwhelming. He possessed more

00:40:35.550 --> 00:40:38.710
raw talent than any performer of his generation.

00:40:39.110 --> 00:40:43.070
He soon became an international legend, a giant

00:40:43.070 --> 00:40:46.909
who took the world by storm. Then, suddenly...

00:40:47.340 --> 00:40:50.360
at the height of his fame he retired from motion

00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:56.860
pictures now he is back and he's more magnificent

00:40:56.860 --> 00:41:01.760
more glamorous more devastating than ever prepare

00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:06.079
yourself the greatest star of all has returned

00:41:21.579 --> 00:41:25.000
Coming soon to a theater near you. We were talking

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:27.599
about King Kong. Just to go back to that guy.

00:41:28.260 --> 00:41:31.500
Matt and I have covered on this show. We've talked

00:41:31.500 --> 00:41:34.880
about King Kong 1933. Talked about King Kong

00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:37.619
versus Godzilla. The Peter Jackson King Kong.

00:41:38.380 --> 00:41:43.860
And the Dino De Laurentiis Kongs. Which I know,

00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:46.539
I'm sure, Tom, you have opinions about. Yeah.

00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:51.480
How do you feel about those De Laurentiis? You

00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:55.500
know, I think the, well, King Kong Lives was

00:41:55.500 --> 00:42:01.159
unwatchable. I thought King Kong was, it was

00:42:01.159 --> 00:42:04.820
cool. I like the merchandising of that movie

00:42:04.820 --> 00:42:08.980
more than anything. I have the viewfinder, the

00:42:08.980 --> 00:42:12.840
viewmaster of King Kong. Incredible. You know,

00:42:12.860 --> 00:42:16.800
I have the Jim Bean bottle of Kong. You know,

00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:22.619
it's great. I don't. I don't even drink, but

00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:26.159
I have it. It's great. I think in the book they

00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:30.500
had a recipe for King Kong something or other.

00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:35.639
King Kong orange juice. I don't remember. I think

00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:41.300
I have it in the book. But I think if the giant

00:42:41.300 --> 00:42:47.400
mechanical Kong had worked. If the giant mechanical

00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:50.820
Kong had worked in that movie, I think it would,

00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:53.659
we'd have a completely different opinion of that

00:42:53.659 --> 00:42:57.539
film. It was, you know, they, I think it's in

00:42:57.539 --> 00:43:01.559
that movie for less moving for less than a minute.

00:43:01.699 --> 00:43:05.860
Yeah. There there's, you know, him at, I think

00:43:05.860 --> 00:43:09.260
it's Shea stadium or whatever, whatever it's

00:43:09.260 --> 00:43:14.219
supposed to be. Yeah. So it's him and Shea. And

00:43:14.219 --> 00:43:16.599
that's really it. You know, they really had like

00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:19.719
just this mechanical tongue that like was supposed

00:43:19.719 --> 00:43:22.940
to, you know, the way that they pushed it was

00:43:22.940 --> 00:43:25.599
that it was going to be this groundbreaking special

00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:28.679
effect and not even a special effect. It was

00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:31.000
a practical effect, this groundbreaking practical

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.460
effect because they built the whole monster.

00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:37.659
And, you know, most of the time it's Rick Baker

00:43:37.659 --> 00:43:41.440
in a suit, which, you know, again, wasn't great,

00:43:41.820 --> 00:43:46.039
you know. Maybe it would have been better as

00:43:46.039 --> 00:43:51.099
a claymation. It may have been better as, which

00:43:51.099 --> 00:43:55.380
was somewhat out of vogue at the time, but it

00:43:55.380 --> 00:43:56.900
could have been done a little bit better that

00:43:56.900 --> 00:44:00.139
way. Story -wise, I think it was solid, but I

00:44:00.139 --> 00:44:03.780
think the soupmation at that point was just a

00:44:03.780 --> 00:44:08.219
little goofy. But again, if the Mechani -Kong

00:44:08.219 --> 00:44:10.500
had... or the Mechanical Kong, not Mechanical

00:44:10.500 --> 00:44:13.079
Kong. They should have had Mechanical Kong. If

00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:16.099
the Mechanical Kong had worked, I think it was,

00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:19.139
it would have been a lot better. And I always

00:44:19.139 --> 00:44:21.179
heard stories about that, about like when they

00:44:21.179 --> 00:44:23.940
brought the monster to New York, when they brought

00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:25.179
him to New York and they had him on the street,

00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:28.860
like people were like ripping, just take, take

00:44:28.860 --> 00:44:33.119
souvenirs, rolling Kong's eye down the street.

00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:37.940
My biggest takeaway with the King Kong 76 is,

00:44:38.829 --> 00:44:43.530
I like the movie fine, right? But I was really

00:44:43.530 --> 00:44:47.530
underwhelmed by Skull Island and the lack of

00:44:47.530 --> 00:44:54.789
monsters. Skull Island is part of the charm of

00:44:54.789 --> 00:45:00.369
King Kong. This is something that I like to ask

00:45:00.369 --> 00:45:04.829
people about King Kong and particularly in those.

00:45:06.219 --> 00:45:08.340
you know, for fans of the original Kong with

00:45:08.340 --> 00:45:11.280
Skull Island. Okay. You know, where they have,

00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:15.679
you know, Fay Wray tied up and Kong comes to

00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:19.659
the jungle and takes her. And then the T -Rex

00:45:19.659 --> 00:45:23.619
comes and the thing. So do you think that that's

00:45:23.619 --> 00:45:26.300
every day for Kong? Is that just like a day at

00:45:26.300 --> 00:45:29.159
the office? Or is this a particularly bad day?

00:45:29.460 --> 00:45:32.260
Like, oh man, today, like a pterodactyl attacked

00:45:32.260 --> 00:45:36.699
me, you know, or. Or again, is this just another

00:45:36.699 --> 00:45:39.340
day at the office? This is every single day for

00:45:39.340 --> 00:45:41.860
Kong. It's like, okay, I'm going to kill another

00:45:41.860 --> 00:45:46.219
dinosaur here. That's a good question. Yeah.

00:45:46.659 --> 00:45:49.400
I kind of got the sense that Kong tried to like

00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:51.679
lay low, like in his cave lair or whatever, you

00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:53.780
know, maybe tried to give some distance to the

00:45:53.780 --> 00:45:56.559
dinosaurs. That was my impression. Yeah. He couldn't

00:45:56.559 --> 00:45:59.179
resist Feyre's charms, you know? That's true.

00:45:59.739 --> 00:46:03.050
But now I wonder. Is it every day that he gets

00:46:03.050 --> 00:46:08.809
a female sacrifice? Or is Rey just like... Actually,

00:46:09.650 --> 00:46:13.429
the way this, like, what's it called? Altar is

00:46:13.429 --> 00:46:16.230
set up. It seems like at least the human element

00:46:16.230 --> 00:46:20.869
is a regular feature. Well, when he does come

00:46:20.869 --> 00:46:25.389
to her, he's knocking over trees. You'd think

00:46:25.389 --> 00:46:27.150
those trees would be knocked over already. Those

00:46:27.150 --> 00:46:30.480
trees would have been knocked over. Yeah. That's

00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:33.539
a good question. As you can tell, I've put a

00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:39.079
lot of thought into this. I was kind of hoping

00:46:39.079 --> 00:46:41.300
the sacrifices were maybe like a yearly thing

00:46:41.300 --> 00:46:43.320
or like every couple months. I hope they're not

00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:45.639
daily. That is very disturbing if that's the

00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:48.460
case. They'd be running out of girls really quick.

00:46:48.579 --> 00:46:52.039
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's a good point. Okay.

00:46:52.099 --> 00:46:54.659
Yeah. Maybe it's like just long enough for the

00:46:54.659 --> 00:46:57.199
trees to grow back. So it's like once every decade.

00:46:58.300 --> 00:47:04.840
Today's the day. I don't know if she was relieved

00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:08.059
that she was not the bride of Kong that day,

00:47:08.179 --> 00:47:11.579
or if she was like, oh, man, I was looking forward

00:47:11.579 --> 00:47:17.280
to this. Thank God the blonde girl came along.

00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:24.559
We don't need these other jokers, though. Driscoll

00:47:24.559 --> 00:47:28.639
and them. Yeah. Yeah, Skull Island is the charm.

00:47:28.739 --> 00:47:32.019
Skull Island is, you know, it's a cool, it's

00:47:32.019 --> 00:47:34.940
a place of, you know, what is, you know, what

00:47:34.940 --> 00:47:37.719
is it? You know, what is Skull Island? Things

00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:41.239
like that, that I think makes it the charm. And

00:47:41.239 --> 00:47:44.000
the only thing that I like about Son of Kong,

00:47:44.199 --> 00:47:48.519
which is far inferior movie. The only thing I

00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:52.239
like about that movie is that Denim, you know,

00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:55.250
escapes New York. He's all these predators. Or

00:47:55.250 --> 00:47:57.969
say, hey, you know, you destroyed half of Manhattan,

00:47:58.230 --> 00:48:01.190
you know, with your monster, you have to pay

00:48:01.190 --> 00:48:05.909
for it. So he takes a expedition and he goes

00:48:05.909 --> 00:48:08.949
back to Skull Island and the tribal chief is

00:48:08.949 --> 00:48:11.590
like. No, you destroyed our island, you idiot.

00:48:12.130 --> 00:48:16.449
So no matter where he goes, if he goes to the

00:48:16.449 --> 00:48:20.349
most remote island on Earth or the largest city

00:48:20.349 --> 00:48:24.369
in America, they're after him. So I think that

00:48:24.369 --> 00:48:26.030
that's cool. I think that that was a really cool

00:48:26.030 --> 00:48:27.829
element that they probably should have expanded

00:48:27.829 --> 00:48:30.949
on a little bit more. I do love the fact that

00:48:30.949 --> 00:48:34.510
it's a direct sequel. It dovetails perfectly

00:48:34.510 --> 00:48:38.329
with the first film. It's such a campier film.

00:48:38.829 --> 00:48:41.929
it's goofier one day we'll talk about it on the

00:48:41.929 --> 00:48:43.909
show on our show camp kaiju because it's just

00:48:43.909 --> 00:48:48.190
talk about camp it's it's load it's all camp

00:48:48.190 --> 00:48:55.230
it's just they they rushed that out i mean it

00:48:55.230 --> 00:48:59.010
came out the same year as con which is wild like

00:48:59.010 --> 00:49:01.230
it took them so long to make king kong and then

00:49:01.230 --> 00:49:04.769
it was just we're just rushing at it what are

00:49:04.769 --> 00:49:10.260
the reviews was, oh, you know, it took them,

00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:13.940
let's say 46 minutes, don't quote me on that,

00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:17.000
for them to get to the monster, for them to get

00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:23.239
to Sonic Kong. And so, again, I was looking at

00:49:23.239 --> 00:49:25.639
that review and I was writing it and I said,

00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:29.539
hmm, how long does it take for them to get to

00:49:29.539 --> 00:49:33.920
King Kong in King Kong? It's 46 minutes. So the

00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:36.500
same amount of time. But just that beginning

00:49:36.500 --> 00:49:41.800
part was so much better than Son of Khan. Yeah.

00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:45.239
And then Peter Jackson took a 90 -minute movie

00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:50.219
and made it three hours. Somehow. And also, it

00:49:50.219 --> 00:49:55.280
was some of those boring parts. Like New York

00:49:55.280 --> 00:50:00.099
without King Khan. New York with Fay Wray. You're

00:50:00.099 --> 00:50:03.780
not wrong. You're not wrong. yeah self -indulgence

00:50:03.780 --> 00:50:05.659
can be a bad thing you know i feel like that

00:50:05.659 --> 00:50:08.099
i i don't mind the peter jackson king kong but

00:50:08.099 --> 00:50:10.340
it's like maybe if producers have been like you

00:50:10.340 --> 00:50:11.900
need to give us a two -hour movie that might

00:50:11.900 --> 00:50:14.199
not have been the worst thing you know yeah i

00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:19.000
saw that one in the theaters yeah same yeah i

00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:23.940
did too and i think the front row was people

00:50:23.940 --> 00:50:26.059
who have who drank for the first time in their

00:50:26.059 --> 00:50:28.900
lives and all of a sudden went to a monster movie

00:50:28.900 --> 00:50:31.559
and it was so it was not an enjoyable experience

00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:39.639
that's too bad we've all been there though oh

00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:41.480
i was just gonna say real quick about the 76

00:50:41.480 --> 00:50:44.000
king kong i like the cast jeff bridges and jessica

00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:46.800
lane like you know like relatively early like

00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:48.699
right on the cusp of superstardom it was jessica

00:50:48.699 --> 00:50:51.320
lang's first starring role so the cast is good

00:50:51.789 --> 00:50:54.170
Yeah. I certainly like the cast. I certainly

00:50:54.170 --> 00:50:57.250
like the, I like the Bollywood behind it. I like,

00:50:57.269 --> 00:50:59.730
I like anything like, you know, anything like

00:50:59.730 --> 00:51:03.010
that behind the movie. And I think, you know,

00:51:03.010 --> 00:51:05.110
we, we haven't really seen something like that

00:51:05.110 --> 00:51:09.030
in recent memory. Maybe, you know what, maybe

00:51:09.030 --> 00:51:13.010
the 90, was it 98 Godzilla certainly had, you

00:51:13.010 --> 00:51:16.550
know, something similar where that was big, real

00:51:16.550 --> 00:51:20.530
big merchandise. I still have mine. Cause I was,

00:51:21.179 --> 00:51:25.039
I was seven. And for a seven -year -old, like

00:51:25.039 --> 00:51:27.480
Godzilla toys all of a sudden and everything.

00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:29.679
Of course, it wasn't actually the Godzilla I

00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:32.519
knew and loved, but I was taking what I could

00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:35.360
get, I guess. Yeah. Even the soundtrack. The

00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:40.480
soundtrack was big. Yeah. Oh, the Taco Bell commercials.

00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:43.199
Taco Bell commercials. It was everything. I think

00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:46.380
we made a Subway. I think something like that.

00:51:46.579 --> 00:51:50.420
Eyes does matter. Yeah. Yeah, that may have been

00:51:50.420 --> 00:51:53.719
Subway. Yeah. So yeah, that was everywhere. So

00:51:53.719 --> 00:51:55.679
yeah, definitely the merchandising opportunity

00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:58.980
on that film was there and something we just

00:51:58.980 --> 00:52:02.320
don't get anymore. I don't think people get that

00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:05.960
excited for it. Welcome to Taco Bell. Can I take

00:52:05.960 --> 00:52:10.320
your order? Let's see. 1 ,000 Burrito Supremes,

00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:14.980
700 Mexican pizzas, and one of those new gorditas.

00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:21.760
Hey, Godzilla. Want something to drink? Godzilla's

00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:24.280
a Taco Bell on four collector cups. And now you

00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:30.880
can put them in a cool Godzilla cup holder. Get

00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:38.539
them while supplies last. In the ocean's unfathomable

00:52:38.539 --> 00:52:41.280
depths, a gigantic, man -like creature appears.

00:52:54.570 --> 00:52:57.070
fiery depths of the earth comes a prehistoric

00:52:57.070 --> 00:53:04.030
mastodon of destruction never before has the

00:53:04.030 --> 00:53:09.929
screen known such heart -stopping terror starring

00:53:09.929 --> 00:53:13.309
nick adams i feel he's very important from a

00:53:13.309 --> 00:53:16.690
scientific point of view i'd have to cut off

00:53:16.690 --> 00:53:19.690
a leg or an arm doctors i won't let you conduct

00:53:19.690 --> 00:53:23.840
this test frankenstein with the strength of a

00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:28.380
thousand men and every man's need for affection

00:53:28.380 --> 00:53:31.519
that makes him a willing captive the chain hurts

00:53:31.519 --> 00:54:01.070
you the new scoop of the century Kong escapes

00:54:01.070 --> 00:54:05.809
and meets his greatest foe, the Kong of Steel.

00:54:07.610 --> 00:54:10.889
A gargantuan duel unmatched by any battle in

00:54:10.889 --> 00:54:18.230
history. Thundering 60 -foot robot Kong of Steel,

00:54:18.469 --> 00:54:21.590
creation of the evil Doctor Who, criminal genius

00:54:21.590 --> 00:54:26.389
who stops at nothing. Kong, once again, dig.

00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:41.519
King Kong shakes the earth. King Kong fights

00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:46.739
for life against the copter swamp. A thousand

00:54:46.739 --> 00:54:49.480
thrills as King Kong battles the servant of Mondo

00:54:49.480 --> 00:54:59.619
Island. No, it's Kong! Hits himself against the

00:54:59.619 --> 00:55:04.679
nation's armament. And plunges a beautiful girl

00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:11.960
into a world of terror. King Kong in a duel to

00:55:11.960 --> 00:55:42.860
the death. One of the things that I, you know,

00:55:42.860 --> 00:55:46.340
kind of back to my book, I guess, is just the

00:55:46.340 --> 00:55:52.800
the Bollyhoo and promotional things that they

00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:55.000
did for King Kong versus Godzilla that were suggested

00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:57.679
for King Kong versus Godzilla were certainly,

00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:01.579
you know, interesting parts of the film of the.

00:56:03.590 --> 00:56:06.289
promotion of that film, like having people dress

00:56:06.289 --> 00:56:08.309
up like King Kong and, you know, having cardboard

00:56:08.309 --> 00:56:12.610
cutouts of them playing things on local radio.

00:56:12.750 --> 00:56:18.289
My favorite was have a go on television with

00:56:18.289 --> 00:56:21.429
a zoologist or, you know, something like that

00:56:21.429 --> 00:56:25.429
and talk about our Kongs and Godzilla's real.

00:56:27.090 --> 00:56:30.650
I don't know. Where's the scientific evidence,

00:56:30.829 --> 00:56:36.289
you know? Tom, do you have any more to say about

00:56:36.289 --> 00:56:39.550
your book, like your process or what you hope?

00:56:39.610 --> 00:56:41.210
Now that it's out in the world, what do you hope

00:56:41.210 --> 00:56:45.849
for it? So, you know, my process of this is,

00:56:45.969 --> 00:56:49.610
again, I go about it from, you know, kind of

00:56:49.610 --> 00:56:52.250
this fan, a fan perspective. I go about it like,

00:56:52.289 --> 00:56:54.329
you know, what would I want to read about? You

00:56:54.329 --> 00:56:57.250
know, what are the things? I also like to find

00:56:57.250 --> 00:57:01.690
the obscure. I like to find things that people.

00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:07.019
Actually, I think of my James Bond book, one

00:57:07.019 --> 00:57:09.500
of the criticisms, I think it was on a Google

00:57:09.500 --> 00:57:12.260
review or Amazon review or something like that,

00:57:12.340 --> 00:57:14.179
I think. I think it was me, actually. I don't

00:57:14.179 --> 00:57:18.300
know, but go on. You're the one. It was something

00:57:18.300 --> 00:57:22.539
like, oh, you know, Tom dives into obscure facts

00:57:22.539 --> 00:57:25.920
that nobody cares about or something like that.

00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:28.699
And I was like. Yeah, that's the point of the

00:57:28.699 --> 00:57:31.420
book, dude. Like, you know, read a Wikipedia

00:57:31.420 --> 00:57:36.179
article if you don't want obscure facts. Sure,

00:57:36.500 --> 00:57:38.400
I could give you a brief overview. You know,

00:57:38.420 --> 00:57:41.619
I could give you a synopsis of the film. I could

00:57:41.619 --> 00:57:45.360
write that up. But so what? You could read that

00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:50.619
anywhere. I did give a blow -by -blow in King

00:57:50.619 --> 00:57:56.480
Kong vs. Godzilla. just because I felt it needed

00:57:56.480 --> 00:58:01.760
to be there. But again, just overall, I'm not

00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:03.739
going to give you a synopsis. So this book isn't

00:58:03.739 --> 00:58:05.860
necessarily a synopsis of the film or anything

00:58:05.860 --> 00:58:10.239
like that. It dives into the obscure. It dives

00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:13.840
into the things that I care about, maybe the

00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:17.980
forgotten, the weird, stuff like that. And that's

00:58:17.980 --> 00:58:20.679
the stuff that I've looked for my entire life.

00:58:20.900 --> 00:58:24.639
Those are the people that look for that sort

00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:27.199
of thing, are the people that I'm drawn to. You

00:58:27.199 --> 00:58:30.340
know, those are my friends. I want to be friends

00:58:30.340 --> 00:58:32.780
with you. I want to have conversation with you.

00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:36.480
If you like the obscure, the weird. Speaking

00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:38.500
of which, and I should, by the way, I should

00:58:38.500 --> 00:58:40.019
make another plug. I should have plugged this

00:58:40.019 --> 00:58:43.559
earlier. Plug away. I'm the executive producer

00:58:43.559 --> 00:58:46.780
of a documentary, Drew Friedman, Vermeer of the

00:58:46.780 --> 00:58:49.219
Borscht Belt. It's about the cartoonist Drew

00:58:49.219 --> 00:58:52.500
Friedman. And it is available now for free on

00:58:52.500 --> 00:58:58.539
Shout Factory TV. And just, again, working on

00:58:58.539 --> 00:59:03.139
that documentary, I found that, again, Drew Friedman

00:59:03.139 --> 00:59:07.150
is known for drawing. the weird and forgotten

00:59:07.150 --> 00:59:10.690
in Hollywood. So if you're not, if you're unfamiliar

00:59:10.690 --> 00:59:13.550
with his work, you know, Shemp, Tor Johnson,

00:59:13.969 --> 00:59:17.150
and then all the way down to like elevator men

00:59:17.150 --> 00:59:21.369
of America. So just drawing like obscure, you

00:59:21.369 --> 00:59:25.130
know, obscure Sammy Petrillo, who was in Bela

00:59:25.130 --> 00:59:28.329
Lugosi meets a Brooklyn gorilla, things like

00:59:28.329 --> 00:59:34.639
that. So in that. While making that documentary

00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:38.139
with my friend Kevin Daugherty, who's the director

00:59:38.139 --> 00:59:42.480
and everything else on that picture, I realized

00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:47.300
that there is this market and people want to

00:59:47.300 --> 00:59:48.719
know about the obscure. They want to know about

00:59:48.719 --> 00:59:53.219
the weird parts of Hollywood or whatever else.

00:59:53.619 --> 01:00:02.019
Tokyo, if you're Godzilla. And that really sent

01:00:02.019 --> 01:00:05.139
me down this path of writing my first two books

01:00:05.139 --> 01:00:07.380
and writing this one. So yeah, definitely you're

01:00:07.380 --> 01:00:08.940
going to get a lot of obscure facts. Definitely

01:00:08.940 --> 01:00:10.900
you're going to get a lot of things in the weeds.

01:00:10.980 --> 01:00:14.179
When writing, in the back of my head, I said,

01:00:14.340 --> 01:00:15.579
you know what? I don't even want to write about

01:00:15.579 --> 01:00:18.920
the two -ending thing. Yeah, I'm surprised that

01:00:18.920 --> 01:00:21.460
hasn't come up yet. But yeah, tell us about it.

01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:25.800
Oh, yeah. It's one of these things that persists.

01:00:25.820 --> 01:00:28.519
I remember, I wrote about it in the book. I remember...

01:00:29.050 --> 01:00:31.230
renting King Kong versus Godzilla and thinking,

01:00:31.369 --> 01:00:35.909
oh, I wonder what ending I have. So clearly I'd

01:00:35.909 --> 01:00:37.650
heard about it. It's like kind of one of those

01:00:37.650 --> 01:00:39.989
things like everybody heard about, like on the

01:00:39.989 --> 01:00:43.670
playground, kids talked about it. It's not true.

01:00:45.050 --> 01:00:47.070
Yeah. There's a little bit of a roar difference.

01:00:47.389 --> 01:00:51.190
Japanese, you only get, you get both roars and

01:00:51.190 --> 01:00:54.170
American version, you get only the Kong, but

01:00:54.170 --> 01:00:59.190
clearly in the, international sales guide from

01:00:59.190 --> 01:01:03.230
toho they clearly say come you know do that wins

01:01:03.230 --> 01:01:07.969
you know and and really i mean i i was i do a

01:01:07.969 --> 01:01:12.630
lot of newspaper digging you know looking for

01:01:12.630 --> 01:01:14.449
for articles in newspapers and things like that

01:01:14.449 --> 01:01:18.269
that's i think that's part of my my shtick with

01:01:18.269 --> 01:01:24.250
this and you know just oh you know even articles

01:01:24.250 --> 01:01:26.630
written fairly recently you know it was it was

01:01:27.159 --> 01:01:30.239
It would always be, well, you know, there's two

01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:32.639
endings. There's two endings. You know, where'd

01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:38.840
you get this? Of course, comics tried to debunk

01:01:38.840 --> 01:01:44.880
it in the, I think, 80s or 90s. But it all started

01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:47.440
with Forrest J. Ackerman of Famous Monsters of

01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:50.579
Filmland magazine. He's the one that he claims

01:01:50.579 --> 01:01:53.940
that he was there on the set. while making the

01:01:53.940 --> 01:01:56.320
film. I don't know if that's true. I did talk

01:01:56.320 --> 01:02:00.639
to some people that knew him, and they said yes.

01:02:02.420 --> 01:02:08.340
Okay. I say print the legend, not the story.

01:02:08.920 --> 01:02:11.079
So I went with it. I don't know. This is what

01:02:11.079 --> 01:02:14.059
I'm told. He went to meet with the gentleman

01:02:14.059 --> 01:02:16.340
who... And I forget his name off the top of my

01:02:16.340 --> 01:02:19.340
head, but he went on to make Horror World in

01:02:19.340 --> 01:02:22.440
Japan in the 80s, which was a big horror movie

01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:24.900
magazine, which would kind of be the, I think

01:02:24.900 --> 01:02:27.260
more of like a Fangoria magazine than a Famous

01:02:27.260 --> 01:02:30.639
Monsters magazine. He was known as Mr. Horror

01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:34.280
in Japan. So apparently Forrest G. Ackerman,

01:02:34.380 --> 01:02:37.139
who was Mr. Sci -Fi, you know, they met in Japan

01:02:37.139 --> 01:02:39.960
and they went to the... I don't know. I don't

01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:41.340
know. That's so fascinating. All of his reports

01:02:41.340 --> 01:02:43.619
in Famous Monster Film Magazine, I have zero

01:02:43.619 --> 01:02:46.320
idea. I have no idea. I'm printing the legend,

01:02:46.380 --> 01:02:51.780
though. He was there, and he reported originally

01:02:51.780 --> 01:02:55.019
on these two endings. It was later reprinted

01:02:55.019 --> 01:02:58.360
in the Crestwood House books, where, again, maybe

01:02:58.360 --> 01:03:01.920
I assume that that's where every red -blooded

01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:04.579
American picked up on this between the years

01:03:04.579 --> 01:03:11.420
of 1970. 1995 and, you know, and ran with it.

01:03:11.659 --> 01:03:16.300
Yeah. You know, maybe Ackerman just overheard

01:03:16.300 --> 01:03:19.099
Tanaka producer that he was, was like, you know,

01:03:19.139 --> 01:03:21.659
it'd be great if we did this. And Honda said,

01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:25.900
hell no. Ackerman just picked up, heard what

01:03:25.900 --> 01:03:28.219
he wanted to hear. Yeah. He published it in,

01:03:28.260 --> 01:03:31.420
it was Spaceman magazine. It was a kind of an

01:03:31.420 --> 01:03:34.480
offshoot of. Famous Monsters. It was still done

01:03:34.480 --> 01:03:37.420
by Warren Publishing. But it was later republished

01:03:37.420 --> 01:03:40.900
in Famous Monsters. And so that's where it just

01:03:40.900 --> 01:03:43.139
picked up steam. And I think the Crestwood House

01:03:43.139 --> 01:03:46.340
books just kind of copied and pasted from...

01:03:46.340 --> 01:03:51.780
I love the journalistic integrity of some of

01:03:51.780 --> 01:03:53.820
these. If you can't trust Crestwood House, what

01:03:53.820 --> 01:03:59.360
can you trust? Right. The story took on a life

01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:02.250
of its own, you know? Yeah. I mean, that's like

01:04:02.250 --> 01:04:05.469
so interesting in and of itself. Yeah. But yeah,

01:04:05.530 --> 01:04:08.969
like I said, I, I, I, um, a gentleman by the

01:04:08.969 --> 01:04:13.210
name of Joe Mo, uh, you know, he, he was intricate.

01:04:13.769 --> 01:04:16.349
Uh, he was, he was a friend of Ackerman, you

01:04:16.349 --> 01:04:19.650
know, was, was, you know, one of his, uh, he

01:04:19.650 --> 01:04:21.429
took care of like the Ackerman mansion after

01:04:21.429 --> 01:04:27.110
Ackerman died. And I, I had met him a long time

01:04:27.110 --> 01:04:31.869
ago at Monster Bash convention. And we somewhat

01:04:31.869 --> 01:04:34.969
stayed in touch and I've, you know, asked him

01:04:34.969 --> 01:04:37.650
a couple of things here and there. And, you know,

01:04:37.670 --> 01:04:39.329
when that came up, I thought, well, it's worth

01:04:39.329 --> 01:04:41.809
a shot. Let's kind of confirm something. But,

01:04:41.809 --> 01:04:45.369
you know, he said yes. So, I don't know. All

01:04:45.369 --> 01:04:49.130
right. Has your research taken you far and wide?

01:04:49.269 --> 01:04:51.809
Have you traveled to meet these people or do

01:04:51.809 --> 01:04:53.909
you just, how do you conduct your interviews?

01:04:54.429 --> 01:04:59.030
So, I mean, like I said, I like to mostly, well.

01:04:59.480 --> 01:05:05.239
A lot of my subjects are dead. What? I'm out

01:05:05.239 --> 01:05:10.380
of here. So that is unfortunate. And also I like

01:05:10.380 --> 01:05:12.320
to look at things from a historical perspective.

01:05:13.500 --> 01:05:16.440
I think oftentimes, and this happens to everybody,

01:05:16.940 --> 01:05:19.820
so let's say you're telling a story about something

01:05:19.820 --> 01:05:23.519
that happened to you 10 years ago. You don't

01:05:23.519 --> 01:05:25.400
remember that happening. You remember telling

01:05:25.400 --> 01:05:29.090
the story. And the story probably has changed

01:05:29.090 --> 01:05:31.469
a little bit. You know, you kind of gave it some

01:05:31.469 --> 01:05:34.650
editorial license. You, you know, there's, there

01:05:34.650 --> 01:05:36.230
were two people there. Now all of a sudden they

01:05:36.230 --> 01:05:38.909
became one. So I like to look at it from a historical

01:05:38.909 --> 01:05:42.170
perspective, like what was published at the time,

01:05:42.190 --> 01:05:44.329
you know? So I like to look at critics from the

01:05:44.329 --> 01:05:45.909
time. I don't, I, you know, it's easy to look

01:05:45.909 --> 01:05:49.750
at something from a modern perspective. And I

01:05:49.750 --> 01:05:52.369
think I learned that with my, particularly with

01:05:52.369 --> 01:05:55.369
my James Bond book where. You know, there's a

01:05:55.369 --> 01:05:56.929
lot of things in James Bond movies you could

01:05:56.929 --> 01:06:00.989
look at and go, you know, this is a little, you

01:06:00.989 --> 01:06:03.710
know, these things that he's doing, it's a little

01:06:03.710 --> 01:06:07.489
weird. I don't know. I wanted to look at it from

01:06:07.489 --> 01:06:09.349
a perspective of, okay, if I'm watching this

01:06:09.349 --> 01:06:13.230
movie in 1965, you know, are critics saying,

01:06:13.289 --> 01:06:15.130
yeah, this is a little creepy? Or are they saying,

01:06:15.190 --> 01:06:18.679
no, James, you know, this is great. So that's

01:06:18.679 --> 01:06:20.960
kind of what I often wanted to look at. So I

01:06:20.960 --> 01:06:23.659
want to look for old interviews. I want to look

01:06:23.659 --> 01:06:30.780
for old reviews, interviews, source material,

01:06:31.019 --> 01:06:34.199
things like that. So yeah, certainly Linda Miller

01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:36.719
was the first interview I actually did for a

01:06:36.719 --> 01:06:41.699
book. Again, it's the end of the text. And I

01:06:41.699 --> 01:06:45.599
think it just, it adds, well, number one, because

01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:49.840
she was in, really four things. You know, she

01:06:49.840 --> 01:06:55.260
was a model. She was in King Kong escapes. She

01:06:55.260 --> 01:06:59.480
was a model and Rankin said, Oh, you know, Hey,

01:06:59.619 --> 01:07:02.880
let's get her. And she has some really great

01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:04.579
stories. She was in the green slime and she was

01:07:04.579 --> 01:07:07.119
in an episode of my three sons and she, Oh, she

01:07:07.119 --> 01:07:09.340
was on some other, she was in some show in Japan

01:07:09.340 --> 01:07:12.639
where she played a princess or something. So

01:07:12.639 --> 01:07:16.849
she was in four things. So. you're not going

01:07:16.849 --> 01:07:18.730
to misconstrue anything. You're going to have

01:07:18.730 --> 01:07:21.949
a pretty good memory of your time making studio

01:07:21.949 --> 01:07:25.050
films. Yeah. King Kong Escapes with the Shiro

01:07:25.050 --> 01:07:28.130
Honda and Tsuburaya. It's like hitting a home

01:07:28.130 --> 01:07:30.150
run right there. Yeah, that does it. You had

01:07:30.150 --> 01:07:32.429
one at bat in your career and you hit a home

01:07:32.429 --> 01:07:35.329
run. You don't forget that. The only other one

01:07:35.329 --> 01:07:37.650
that I can think of that's done better is, oh,

01:07:37.690 --> 01:07:39.510
what's his name from The Godfather? I can't think

01:07:39.510 --> 01:07:44.530
of his name. Fredo. John Cazale? He was in five

01:07:44.530 --> 01:07:47.469
movies before he died. He was in Godfather 1,

01:07:47.610 --> 01:07:50.849
2, The Conversation, Dog Day Afternoon. Deer

01:07:50.849 --> 01:07:54.530
Hunter. Old Grand Slam. Grand Slam out of the

01:07:54.530 --> 01:08:00.309
park. That's it. It's him and Linda Miller. The

01:08:00.309 --> 01:08:02.550
Green Slam maybe is more of like a single for

01:08:02.550 --> 01:08:05.090
Linda Miller. Maybe a bunch, you know. Hit by

01:08:05.090 --> 01:08:10.559
a pitch. Yeah, there we go. I think that's a

01:08:10.559 --> 01:08:14.800
great note to end our evening on. Tom, this was

01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:18.100
absolutely terrific. Thank you. Thank you for

01:08:18.100 --> 01:08:22.239
joining us. We'll put links to all your books

01:08:22.239 --> 01:08:25.460
and your documentary. Great. Anything else, just

01:08:25.460 --> 01:08:27.920
email me. I'll put it in the show notes. Yeah.

01:08:28.420 --> 01:08:30.899
Thank you, Tom. It was a pleasure. We'd love

01:08:30.899 --> 01:08:32.520
to have you back. I'd love to stay in touch.

01:08:33.140 --> 01:08:36.520
Let me know how things are going. Yeah. I'm working

01:08:36.520 --> 01:08:38.699
on a book now. I don't have a publisher yet.

01:08:39.039 --> 01:08:42.560
I may go back to Bear Manor. It's called Monsters

01:08:42.560 --> 01:08:45.520
Belong on Television. It's actually kind of a

01:08:45.520 --> 01:08:49.819
takeoff of the King Kong versus Godzilla book.

01:08:50.260 --> 01:08:53.420
I said something in there like the King Kong

01:08:53.420 --> 01:08:57.520
airing on WOR television proved that monsters

01:08:57.520 --> 01:09:01.399
belong on television. And, you know, again, thinking

01:09:01.399 --> 01:09:04.779
about, you know, becoming a, watching those tapes

01:09:04.779 --> 01:09:08.020
and things like that, you know, and how intricate,

01:09:10.189 --> 01:09:13.310
you know television especially you know pre -vhs

01:09:13.310 --> 01:09:17.590
era was important to monster movies you know

01:09:17.590 --> 01:09:23.850
drive in pre pre -vhs so so it's a it's a it's

01:09:23.850 --> 01:09:25.989
a look at that so i'd love to come talk about

01:09:25.989 --> 01:09:27.609
that you know again we could talk about kaiju

01:09:27.609 --> 01:09:30.989
films on that i think yeah but yeah we talk about

01:09:30.989 --> 01:09:33.949
all kinds of monster movies so i'm you're talking

01:09:33.949 --> 01:09:37.770
about monsters on tv i'm thinking about It's

01:09:37.770 --> 01:09:41.789
not Elvira. It's the woman from Plan 9 from Outer

01:09:41.789 --> 01:09:45.670
Space. Oh, Vampyra. Vampyra. Thank you. So like

01:09:45.670 --> 01:09:47.970
you say, like from the beginning of television.

01:09:48.489 --> 01:09:51.869
Yeah. Yeah. She's part one. Yeah. I'm doing.

01:09:52.609 --> 01:09:55.390
What's his name? Dana Gould, who did the forward

01:09:55.390 --> 01:09:58.789
of my book. He's good friends with Vampyra. So

01:09:58.789 --> 01:10:02.449
I don't know. I have to pick his brain on a couple

01:10:02.449 --> 01:10:04.810
of things. And then we'll pick your brain on

01:10:04.810 --> 01:10:07.710
how you picked his brain. And then. I feel like

01:10:07.710 --> 01:10:10.789
I had a meeting with Linda Miller just tangentially

01:10:10.789 --> 01:10:18.130
here. Yeah. You know what? She's the nicest lady.

01:10:18.609 --> 01:10:25.630
Like I said, Linda Miller, Tom Shabilla, it's

01:10:25.630 --> 01:10:29.529
me or my uncle. We're it. That's the only Tom

01:10:29.529 --> 01:10:33.890
Shabilla on planet Earth. And if you find one

01:10:33.890 --> 01:10:37.600
of us, you'll find me. Yeah. We'll point you

01:10:37.600 --> 01:10:42.439
in the other direction. And Linda Miller, I'm

01:10:42.439 --> 01:10:46.739
sure there's a trillion Linda Millers. And two

01:10:46.739 --> 01:10:49.699
of the most popular names, first names and last.

01:10:50.579 --> 01:10:54.020
And she had no idea that people were looking

01:10:54.020 --> 01:10:57.560
for or liked that movie or cared about the movie

01:10:57.560 --> 01:11:00.579
in any way, shape, or form. And she was an insurance

01:11:00.579 --> 01:11:04.680
salesman and stuff like that. And, you know,

01:11:04.680 --> 01:11:07.680
she lived in Virginia and kind of then all of

01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:09.079
a sudden, you know, somebody asked her to come

01:11:09.079 --> 01:11:11.239
to a convention. And she was like, oh, what?

01:11:11.399 --> 01:11:15.859
Are you nuts? People care about this. And when

01:11:15.859 --> 01:11:20.380
I contacted her, you know, I said, you know,

01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:23.500
I think she was more than accommodating. She

01:11:23.500 --> 01:11:25.180
said, oh, yeah, I'll go on Zoom. We'll talk about

01:11:25.180 --> 01:11:30.569
it. And she sent me pictures. I think when we

01:11:30.569 --> 01:11:33.510
got on, I said, okay, I'll try to make this brief.

01:11:33.649 --> 01:11:35.930
I'll try to keep this as brief as possible or

01:11:35.930 --> 01:11:37.550
something like that. And she said something like,

01:11:38.409 --> 01:11:43.409
oh, no, I like talking about this. That's so

01:11:43.409 --> 01:11:46.649
lovely. I love that. And then she even, you know,

01:11:46.729 --> 01:11:49.710
there's a drive -in by me that also shows films

01:11:49.710 --> 01:11:52.090
and things like that. And this summer they had

01:11:52.090 --> 01:11:56.560
King Kong and Godzilla Fest. I was a little upset

01:11:56.560 --> 01:11:58.260
because it was right before my book came out.

01:11:58.399 --> 01:12:00.720
So I was like, I don't have anything to sell.

01:12:01.659 --> 01:12:04.539
So I think the first night they showed King Kong

01:12:04.539 --> 01:12:09.039
Godzilla. I forget what the third was. Maybe

01:12:09.039 --> 01:12:12.539
not Sonic Kong. I don't remember. And the next

01:12:12.539 --> 01:12:14.760
night it was King Kong versus Godzilla, Godzilla

01:12:14.760 --> 01:12:19.579
Escapes, and something else. And she did the

01:12:19.579 --> 01:12:22.590
intro. to the film for it. Like, you know, and

01:12:22.590 --> 01:12:24.710
she was, she was really accommodating and stuff.

01:12:24.810 --> 01:12:29.130
It was just like, just reach out to her. So that's

01:12:29.130 --> 01:12:31.449
wonderful. Keep up the good work, man. You guys

01:12:31.449 --> 01:12:33.149
keep up the good fight too. Thank you very much.

01:12:33.170 --> 01:12:36.029
This is a lot of fun. I appreciate it. Thank

01:12:36.029 --> 01:12:38.130
you, Tom. Thanks friends for listening. Remember

01:12:38.130 --> 01:12:40.989
you can find Tom Shabilla's links in the show

01:12:40.989 --> 01:12:44.510
notes. Check out King Kong vs. Godzilla, the

01:12:44.510 --> 01:12:47.289
most colossal conflict the screen has ever known,

01:12:47.369 --> 01:12:52.149
and his other books on television, spy craze.

01:12:52.430 --> 01:12:56.750
Tom's got a good catalog going. Well, next time

01:12:56.750 --> 01:12:59.989
on Camp Kaiju, we will be having Sean Pryor,

01:13:00.109 --> 01:13:03.029
dear friend of the pod, back on to talk about

01:13:03.029 --> 01:13:08.069
a 1972 film called Blackula. It is a well -known

01:13:08.069 --> 01:13:11.819
film, huge legacy. for black cinema and beyond.

01:13:12.039 --> 01:13:15.279
But, you know, are there flaws worth talking

01:13:15.279 --> 01:13:18.060
about? We're going to do just that next week.

01:13:18.220 --> 01:13:21.180
In the meantime, go back, check out some of the

01:13:21.180 --> 01:13:23.739
other black horror films that we mentioned in

01:13:23.739 --> 01:13:26.560
the beginning of this episode. It is Black History

01:13:26.560 --> 01:13:30.520
Month. Let us not forget. And we hope that you

01:13:30.520 --> 01:13:34.520
find some really enriching, meaningful, campy

01:13:34.520 --> 01:13:39.020
work in the rich legacy that is black cinema.

01:13:39.119 --> 01:13:42.220
And we welcome your thoughts and participation

01:13:42.220 --> 01:13:44.560
in next week's episode. It has been recorded,

01:13:44.680 --> 01:13:47.979
so we do know what's a coming. All right, guys,

01:13:48.020 --> 01:13:50.659
please rate and review this show and follow us

01:13:50.659 --> 01:13:53.119
on Patreon .com slash Camp Kaiju for additional

01:13:53.119 --> 01:13:56.560
videos, reviews, merchandise, more, more, more.

01:13:57.520 --> 01:13:59.279
Other ways you can get in touch with us are at

01:13:59.279 --> 01:14:02.520
CampKaiju at gmail .com, CampKaijuPodcast .com,

01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:06.020
Instagram, and our voicemail number 612 -470

01:14:06.020 --> 01:14:10.619
-2612. Camp Kaiju is recorded in Minneapolis,

01:14:11.079 --> 01:14:13.479
St. Paul, Minnesota, with Menia's mailbox music

01:14:13.479 --> 01:14:16.779
by Ben Cook -Felts. Thanks, friends. And until

01:14:16.779 --> 01:14:21.630
next time, stay campy. Camp Gaidu is brought

01:14:21.630 --> 01:14:23.750
to you by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack, powered

01:14:23.750 --> 01:14:26.430
by Coldwell Benker Realty. Whether you're looking

01:14:26.430 --> 01:14:28.729
for your dream home, a savvy investment property,

01:14:28.869 --> 01:14:31.449
or expert guidance in home rehab and flipping,

01:14:31.689 --> 01:14:34.550
the Zach Pack has you covered. Check the link

01:14:34.550 --> 01:14:39.010
in the show notes for more information. Look,

01:14:39.109 --> 01:14:42.390
then run for your life. Incredible is the word

01:14:42.390 --> 01:14:49.649
for the world's first monster musical. in magnificent

01:14:49.649 --> 01:14:53.210
eastman color the daring dancing enticing and

01:14:53.210 --> 01:14:57.029
horrifying the incredibly strange creatures who

01:14:57.029 --> 01:15:00.750
stopped living and became mixed up zombies from

01:15:00.750 --> 01:15:03.130
the innocence of music and laughter comes the

01:15:03.130 --> 01:15:06.390
twilight of terror along the midway scantily

01:15:06.390 --> 01:15:09.369
clad dancers luring the young lovers into the

01:15:09.369 --> 01:15:24.140
sideshows See the dancing girls of the carnival

01:15:24.140 --> 01:15:26.439
murdered by the incredible night creatures of

01:15:26.439 --> 01:15:30.779
the midway. I only know that something evil lies

01:15:30.779 --> 01:15:34.659
ahead for me. An unspeakable pit of dismal subhuman

01:15:34.659 --> 01:15:38.479
monsters who drool and gibber, moaning for the

01:15:38.479 --> 01:15:41.539
thrill of revenge. Incredible are the songs,

01:15:41.600 --> 01:15:44.819
the gaiety, the zombie stomp of those who will

01:15:44.819 --> 01:15:48.890
stop living. And then the mix -up. trickery and

01:15:48.890 --> 01:15:51.789
the device to ruin. See the hunchback of the

01:15:51.789 --> 01:15:54.890
midway fight a duel of death with the mixed up

01:15:54.890 --> 01:15:59.029
zombies. Turning men into monsters twisted tormented

01:15:59.029 --> 01:16:03.729
human vultures yearning to kill. Incredible creatures

01:16:03.729 --> 01:16:06.449
clutching at the thin thread with their miserable

01:16:06.449 --> 01:16:11.590
eyes. Human vultures only the weird zombies remain.

01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:20.060
Who is the woman branded in birth wearing the

01:16:20.060 --> 01:16:24.460
ward of horror? Do as Madame Estrella says. The

01:16:24.460 --> 01:16:28.039
world's first monster musical. The incredibly

01:16:28.039 --> 01:16:31.840
strange creatures who stopped living and became

01:16:31.840 --> 01:16:33.180
mixed -up zombies.