WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.800
It does not fit the rest of the movie. It's so

00:00:01.800 --> 00:00:04.960
bizarre. Well, it's kind of more like a, I don't

00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:06.719
remember exactly how it goes, but it's just,

00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:12.140
it's just like addiction. You know, don't have

00:00:12.140 --> 00:00:13.740
anything interesting to say about it, but it

00:00:13.740 --> 00:00:16.100
was just a terrible song. Well, sure. It's like,

00:00:16.140 --> 00:00:37.100
we get it for our, it's the addiction. Hello

00:00:37.100 --> 00:00:39.500
and welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Podcast.

00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:43.820
We're your hosts, Matt Levine and Vincent Hannum.

00:00:43.899 --> 00:00:46.500
And we are talking about all of our favorite

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monster movies, the good, the bad, and the downright

00:00:49.179 --> 00:00:51.880
campy, and asking if they stand the test of time.

00:00:52.579 --> 00:00:55.939
Traditional kaiju creature features, space invaders,

00:00:55.979 --> 00:00:58.280
the supernatural, and everything in between.

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You know it. All Strange Beasts, welcome here.

00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:04.000
Cam Kaiju is brought to you by Zach Linder and

00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:06.560
the Zach Pack, powered by Coldwell Banker Realty.

00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:08.959
Whether you're looking for your dream home, a

00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:12.000
savvy investment property, or expert guidance

00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:14.579
in home rehab and flipping, the Zach Pack has

00:01:14.579 --> 00:01:16.819
you covered. Don't forget to follow the Zach

00:01:16.819 --> 00:01:19.500
Pack on social media for the latest updates and

00:01:19.500 --> 00:01:45.829
insights. And tell me to go. Don't ask. Tell

00:01:45.829 --> 00:02:01.150
me. Please. You think that's gonna stop me? I

00:02:01.150 --> 00:02:02.870
haven't been feeling well. I'm not kidding. You

00:02:02.870 --> 00:02:14.740
don't look so good. It does more for the soul

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than any formulation of doctoral material. You

00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:20.319
can never get enough, can you? But you learn

00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:23.120
to control it. You learn, like the Tibetans,

00:02:23.219 --> 00:02:33.259
to survive on a little. There is a dual nature

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to the addiction. It satisfies the hunger, which

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evil engenders. But it also dulls our perception,

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so we are helped to forget how ill we really

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are. We drink to escape the fact. We're alcoholics.

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We're not evil because of the evil we do, but

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we do evil because we are evil. What would you

00:02:55.590 --> 00:03:02.650
like to confess? God, forgive me. Welcome to

00:03:02.650 --> 00:03:05.569
Camp Kaiju, and a very special welcome to friend

00:03:05.569 --> 00:03:08.310
of the podcast and frequent guest star, Frank

00:03:08.310 --> 00:03:11.949
Olson. Welcome, Frank. Yes. Just when you thought

00:03:11.949 --> 00:03:15.770
it was safe, I am back. Frankaholics, rejoice.

00:03:16.409 --> 00:03:20.789
Yes. Did we ever finish the Frankaholics Camp

00:03:20.789 --> 00:03:22.969
Kaiju t -shirt? Vincent, that's what I want to

00:03:22.969 --> 00:03:26.889
know. Let me look through the list of other forgotten

00:03:26.889 --> 00:03:30.449
Camp Kaiju t -shirt projects. I thought maybe

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it was already sold out. That's it. That's the

00:03:33.409 --> 00:03:38.590
attitude. It just sold out. Before I even knew

00:03:38.590 --> 00:03:40.189
that we had made those, they already sold out.

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Those Frankaholics are getting thirsty. Frank,

00:03:42.710 --> 00:03:44.590
it's good to see you. It's been a long time.

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Yeah, likewise. The last one I was on was the

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Island of Dr. Murrow episode back in April, I

00:03:50.530 --> 00:03:54.030
believe, which was a lot of fun. That was a great

00:03:54.030 --> 00:03:57.300
episode, I thought. Yeah, it was a good conversation.

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Thank you for joining us for that. A crazy movie,

00:03:59.819 --> 00:04:02.539
a very chaotic production story on that film,

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and really fun to talk to you about that. Thanks

00:04:05.099 --> 00:04:07.900
for joining us again tonight. Thank you for having

00:04:07.900 --> 00:04:10.840
me. We're talking about another pretty crazy

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movie tonight in very different ways, The Addiction

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by Abel Ferrara from 1995. Look forward to talking

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to you guys about this one in this episode. A

00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:24.339
few nuts and bolts before we get started. Thank

00:04:24.339 --> 00:04:26.300
you all again for hanging out with us. Please

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rate and review the show and follow us on Patreon

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.com slash Camp Kaiju for additional videos,

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reviews, merchandise, and more. Other ways to

00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:39.420
get in touch include email at CampKaiju at gmail

00:04:39.420 --> 00:04:43.920
.com, at our website, CampKaijuPodcast .com,

00:04:44.060 --> 00:04:47.720
on Instagram, and our voicemail. The number is

00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:52.680
612 -470 -2612. Feel free to leave us a message.

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Who knows? It may make an appearance on the show.

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Special thank you to our current Patreon members,

00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:02.139
Jason, Chris, Sean, Peggy, and our anonymous

00:05:02.139 --> 00:05:04.879
patron. Also introducing Camp Kaiju Happy Hour

00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:07.420
once a month. This is a chance to chat with your

00:05:07.420 --> 00:05:10.160
hosts. Hopefully we'll meet some of you in person

00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:12.720
in the near future. So yeah, thanks again to

00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:14.560
our current patrons. If you're interested to

00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:18.069
sign up. please do so at patreon .com. I'm curious,

00:05:18.129 --> 00:05:20.089
have either of you seen Frankenstein yet, the

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new Guillermo del Toro movie? Not yet. It is

00:05:23.689 --> 00:05:27.069
in my Netflix queue, but have not actually queued

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it up to watch it yet. I have not either. I think

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I'm going to get Netflix for a limited time.

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We haven't had it in the house for a long time.

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Oh, I say that. My mom, Patreon member Peggy.

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She has Netflix, so I'm going to go over to her

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house at some point in the holidays. And I already

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told her, I'll just watch it at your house. I

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still have yet to watch Guillermo del Toro's

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Pinocchio, so that's how quick I get to some

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of these streaming movies. I feel like no urgency

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to see movies once they come out on these streaming

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platforms, especially if they're exclusive to

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these platforms and they're not just going to

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disappear in a month randomly or whatever. And

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then I just kind of forget about them. It's hard

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to get as excited about these movies as it is

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if they come out in theaters. And I know this

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one did have a very brief theatrical run before

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it was on Netflix. I get that. Have either of

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you guys seen Predator or Black Phone 2 by any

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chance? I was invited to go the other night,

00:06:30.769 --> 00:06:34.509
but I couldn't. Great story. But Gary Danzu,

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former guest host on the podcast, he did see

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it. I'll read his review. He texted me after

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he saw it. This is Predator, right? Predator

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Badlands? Yes. Sorry, Predator Badlands. I am

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excited for it. I have enjoyed what Dan Trachtenberg

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has done with the franchise. I think he takes

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big swings that actually end up connecting, for

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me anyways. So what did Gary say? Gary said,

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Predator Badlands was a blast. Just an incredibly

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fun and heart -filled sci -fi adventure film.

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So I love fun and heart -filled genre stories.

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And it's The Predator. Yeah. I'm excited to check

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it out. Well, a lot of good monster movies out

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there. Hopefully we'll all check those out soon,

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speaking for myself. You know, as always on Camp

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Kaiju, we also like to shout out some movies

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that came out around this time in cinema history.

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So we have a list of monster movies that came

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out around late November, early December throughout

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the years. Yeah, one that's a really crazy one

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that I see that's on this list is The Keep, which

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is a movie that came out in 1983. directed by

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Michael Mann, of all people, who, if anyone listening

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doesn't know, he's probably best known for Heat.

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He was one of the, I believe, co -creators of

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the Miami Vice TV series and also did the Miami

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Vice movie in the 2000s. Not really known for

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sci -fi and monster -type stuff, but this was

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one of his earliest movies, and it's... Kind

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of a notorious disaster. Like it had a really,

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really troubled production where the special

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effects supervisor died shortly after post -production

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started. And nobody really knew how to like,

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you know, nobody really knew like his tricks

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or how to keep up with what he was doing. So

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that messed things up. Then there were a bunch

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of like reshoots that were required. The cinematography

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and when they had to do the. reshoots the original

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cinematographer was no longer available then

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it was one of those things where the movie was

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like I think three or four hours long in its

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original cut and then the studio forced them

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to cut it down so it's just like everything that

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could have gone wrong went wrong basically on

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this movie but it's also a really like just ambitious

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like crazy movie that has to do with sort of

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tastelessly combines The Holocaust with this

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weird satanic stuff. It's difficult to describe,

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but it's one of those movies that's a gigantic

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mess, but in a really interesting way. It does

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have some flashes of really beautiful imagery

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and things. There's this big cave in the movie.

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And there's a scene where they they first show

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the cave and the camera just pans like way, way,

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way, way back, like impossibly far back to show

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you like the size of this cave. And it's really

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cool looking. And there's some other moments

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like that that are just like, you know, really

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visually beautiful, really like imaginative where

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you can kind of it's one of those movies where

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you can see like, you know, the germs of some

00:10:00.509 --> 00:10:03.429
good ideas and things that just all went completely

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haywire because of. just what a disaster the

00:10:06.850 --> 00:10:09.889
production was. Matt, you've talked about that

00:10:09.889 --> 00:10:13.190
movie a lot. I have wanted to see it for a while

00:10:13.190 --> 00:10:15.850
now. I can second everything Frank said. That's

00:10:15.850 --> 00:10:18.250
a really crazy movie, very beautiful, kind of

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a mess. Yeah, like Frank said, in its finished

00:10:20.809 --> 00:10:22.850
form, it doesn't totally work, but still well

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worth seeing. The Tangerine Dream soundtrack

00:10:25.070 --> 00:10:27.490
is incredible. I love the music in that movie.

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That's very good, too. Also, a weirdly terrible

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performance by Ian McKellen. He's great in everything,

00:10:34.230 --> 00:10:36.690
but he's just absolutely awful in this movie.

00:10:37.190 --> 00:10:41.230
He's trying to do some sort of like... As I recall,

00:10:41.389 --> 00:10:43.149
is it more like a... I don't know if you remember,

00:10:43.289 --> 00:10:45.309
Matt. Is it more like a New York accent or more

00:10:45.309 --> 00:10:48.549
just kind of like a stereotypical Jewish guy

00:10:48.549 --> 00:10:52.549
accent? I remember it being really awkward, and

00:10:52.549 --> 00:10:56.350
I was like, what are you doing, Sir Ian? He's

00:10:56.350 --> 00:10:58.149
normally great, but just absolutely terrible

00:10:58.149 --> 00:11:01.429
in that movie. Yeah, I remember a weird New York

00:11:01.429 --> 00:11:04.549
accent for sure. Yeah. Seems like a bad choice.

00:11:04.950 --> 00:11:06.769
Also, there's a character in that movie whose

00:11:06.769 --> 00:11:09.450
name is Glacon Trismegistus, which is one of

00:11:09.450 --> 00:11:12.649
my favorite character names of all time. So lots

00:11:12.649 --> 00:11:16.870
to love about that movie. Wow. Check it out.

00:11:16.889 --> 00:11:19.409
The Keep is awesome for sure. And I think it

00:11:19.409 --> 00:11:21.789
just got a new, relatively new Blu -ray release.

00:11:21.950 --> 00:11:23.389
Maybe it was a couple years ago at this point.

00:11:23.629 --> 00:11:26.250
Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah. Looks great.

00:11:26.370 --> 00:11:30.909
Yeah. That's a good choice. Vincent, do any titles

00:11:30.909 --> 00:11:33.610
jump out at you on this list? A little -known

00:11:33.610 --> 00:11:35.889
film, I don't know if you've heard of it, called

00:11:35.889 --> 00:11:40.710
The Exorcist, 1972. I pick it only because I

00:11:40.710 --> 00:11:43.850
actually just watched it for the first time in

00:11:43.850 --> 00:11:50.610
October, and it didn't disappoint. I didn't think

00:11:50.610 --> 00:11:54.409
it was overhyped. In my estimation, I found it...

00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:57.279
not just frightening, like on the surface with

00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:00.480
like all the demonic stuff, but like, there's

00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:02.759
a lot of like, it's like a real family drama

00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:06.200
that happens to have demonic possession in it.

00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:11.139
Not to mention the priest and his journey from

00:12:11.139 --> 00:12:15.360
his journey into a believer, but, and his own

00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:19.889
inner turmoil and his. I mean, I don't know,

00:12:19.889 --> 00:12:22.409
spoilers or whatnot, but his own sacrifice at

00:12:22.409 --> 00:12:25.509
the end. And I was like, what is happening? I

00:12:25.509 --> 00:12:28.470
was in tears at some of the scenes in that movie.

00:12:28.549 --> 00:12:31.850
So I'm not going to say anything about The Exorcist

00:12:31.850 --> 00:12:34.389
that hasn't been said, but it was worth it. I'm

00:12:34.389 --> 00:12:38.009
glad I saw it. There's a part in that movie I

00:12:38.009 --> 00:12:41.070
absolutely love, speaking of the human drama

00:12:41.070 --> 00:12:43.419
of it, where it's just... you know, that the

00:12:43.419 --> 00:12:46.360
exorcism has been going on for a while. And they

00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:50.120
just, it's just a scene of like the, I think

00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.240
the two priests, like the main priest guy and

00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:55.480
the older guy played by Max von Cito. And they're

00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:58.039
just kind of like in the, in the hallway, kind

00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:01.379
of like taking a break from this, like extremely

00:13:01.379 --> 00:13:03.799
stressful situation. There's no dialogue or anything

00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:05.419
in the scene, but they're just kind of like sitting

00:13:05.419 --> 00:13:06.899
there, like with their heads in their hands,

00:13:06.980 --> 00:13:11.669
like totally burned out. And that's, For some

00:13:11.669 --> 00:13:13.250
reason, that's the part of that movie that stuck

00:13:13.250 --> 00:13:16.309
with me more than any of the like big, you know,

00:13:16.370 --> 00:13:19.629
fucks or gore stuff or anything. It's a quiet

00:13:19.629 --> 00:13:23.129
moment. No words, but the acting is so good and

00:13:23.129 --> 00:13:26.129
the directing and the framing and the blocking.

00:13:26.169 --> 00:13:29.129
It's just, it's really good. It's done really

00:13:29.129 --> 00:13:32.450
well. Yeah, I think to me, one of the scariest

00:13:32.450 --> 00:13:34.409
scenes in that movie is the visit to the hospital

00:13:34.409 --> 00:13:37.090
towards the beginning where poor Regan is having

00:13:37.090 --> 00:13:39.429
all or Regan is having all these tests done on

00:13:39.429 --> 00:13:42.470
her. And it's extremely convincing. And it's

00:13:42.470 --> 00:13:44.350
just like very, very hard to watch and kind of

00:13:44.350 --> 00:13:46.769
sets you up for all the horror that comes soon

00:13:46.769 --> 00:13:48.889
afterwards, even though everything else is obviously

00:13:48.889 --> 00:13:51.529
a lot more supernatural and paranormal. But yeah,

00:13:51.649 --> 00:13:53.750
that's still my vote for the scariest movie I've

00:13:53.750 --> 00:13:56.710
ever seen. The Exorcist. Its reputation is well

00:13:56.710 --> 00:14:00.809
earned. Yeah, for sure. I think I'm going to

00:14:00.809 --> 00:14:02.870
mention a movie that's not actually really a

00:14:02.870 --> 00:14:04.610
monster movie, but it is on our list of horror

00:14:04.610 --> 00:14:07.769
movies here. And it's one of my favorite thrillers

00:14:07.769 --> 00:14:09.590
of all time, if you can call it that, which is

00:14:09.590 --> 00:14:12.850
Diabolique, the French movie from 1955, directed

00:14:12.850 --> 00:14:16.590
by Henri -Georges Clouseau, very French name.

00:14:16.730 --> 00:14:21.789
He's kind of had the nickname of the French Hitchcock

00:14:21.789 --> 00:14:25.230
from some critics and also directed The Wages

00:14:25.230 --> 00:14:27.389
of Fear, another really great suspense movie.

00:14:28.009 --> 00:14:30.429
But Diabolique is fantastic. Just a really great

00:14:30.429 --> 00:14:33.470
story about somebody is murdered and then suddenly

00:14:33.470 --> 00:14:35.850
the corpse disappears. And it's kind of just

00:14:35.850 --> 00:14:38.570
the mystery of what happens around that. I don't

00:14:38.570 --> 00:14:41.090
want to give anything more away. I'll also just

00:14:41.090 --> 00:14:43.470
say that Diabolique has my one of my favorite

00:14:43.470 --> 00:14:46.409
endings of any movie ever. It's perfect. And

00:14:46.409 --> 00:14:49.309
I've seen that movie a lot and I love it every

00:14:49.309 --> 00:14:53.009
single time. Amazing. I'm literally typing it

00:14:53.009 --> 00:14:55.710
into the Hennepin County Library to see if I

00:14:55.710 --> 00:14:59.710
can rent it. Oh, and it's streaming. Nope. Wait,

00:14:59.809 --> 00:15:03.149
all copies are in use. There was also a remake

00:15:03.149 --> 00:15:05.230
with Sharon Stone. That's supposed to be terrible,

00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:07.629
but I hope to see that also someday. I kind of

00:15:07.629 --> 00:15:10.049
like really bad American remakes of great European

00:15:10.049 --> 00:15:14.830
horror movies. That is streaming on the library's

00:15:14.830 --> 00:15:18.429
streamer. But hey, I'm number one in line for

00:15:18.429 --> 00:15:21.830
the original French version. So fingers crossed,

00:15:21.950 --> 00:15:27.929
boys, getting this two weeks from now. Excited

00:15:27.929 --> 00:15:32.669
to hear what you think. All right. So yeah, lots

00:15:32.669 --> 00:15:34.529
of good movies came out around this time in cinema

00:15:34.529 --> 00:15:36.769
history. In terms of what's coming up on Camp

00:15:36.769 --> 00:15:40.889
Kaiju, Vincent, your next episode is, I'll let

00:15:40.889 --> 00:15:42.830
you talk about it if you want. Guillermo del

00:15:42.830 --> 00:15:46.090
Toro's Pacific Rim, his own love letter to the

00:15:46.090 --> 00:15:51.669
Kaiju genre. And Kaiju nerd and big Mecca enthusiast,

00:15:51.669 --> 00:15:55.299
Sean Childers, also friend of the pod. will be

00:15:55.299 --> 00:15:58.299
joining us for that episode. We've got that coming

00:15:58.299 --> 00:16:02.399
up on Camp Kaiju, Pacific Rim, and then a holiday

00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:06.519
party season announcement. Frank, hopefully you

00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:09.379
can join us for that. We'd love to have you be

00:16:09.379 --> 00:16:11.419
a part of that. Yeah, hopefully. I've been on

00:16:11.419 --> 00:16:13.860
a few of them, and it's always fun. I always

00:16:13.860 --> 00:16:16.299
look forward to those, yeah. Remembering the

00:16:16.299 --> 00:16:18.919
year past and looking forward to the year ahead.

00:16:18.980 --> 00:16:22.379
It's always fun. Drinking some eggnog, putting

00:16:22.379 --> 00:16:31.440
on dumb party hats. Yeah. Can't wait. And then,

00:16:31.460 --> 00:16:34.139
yeah, we might have some other live events coming

00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:37.559
up in 2026. An interview with Bill Robain, the

00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:41.240
director of Giant Spider Invasion, who shot some

00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:43.080
new footage for the movie, which at this point

00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:45.919
is 50 years old. It's from 1975. But there was

00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:48.080
new footage shot for it, which should be released

00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:51.039
next year, widely released next year. Yeah, listeners,

00:16:51.340 --> 00:16:54.830
this is very exciting. Bill Robain, he's an industry

00:16:54.830 --> 00:16:59.529
insider. He did make this notoriously so bad

00:16:59.529 --> 00:17:02.129
it's a good movie about giant spiders. That's

00:17:02.129 --> 00:17:04.130
kind of how he made his fortune. So he knows

00:17:04.130 --> 00:17:06.730
the business. He made a monster movie that people

00:17:06.730 --> 00:17:09.529
are still talking about 50 years later. And he's

00:17:09.529 --> 00:17:13.630
agreed to talk to us about it. Their names are

00:17:13.630 --> 00:17:26.859
legendary. Their destinies linked. An ageless

00:17:26.859 --> 00:17:39.900
myth meets an uncompromising master. Francis

00:17:39.900 --> 00:17:45.380
Ford Coppola brings an undying legend to life.

00:17:47.799 --> 00:18:18.019
Dracula. So you want me to tell you the story

00:18:18.019 --> 00:18:21.519
of my life? I'll tell you my story. I'll tell

00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:29.119
you all of it. I'm flesh and blood, but not human.

00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:33.980
I haven't been human for 200 years. From the

00:18:33.980 --> 00:18:39.200
novel by Anne Rice. From Neil Jordan, the director

00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:42.160
of The Crying Game. I've come to answer your

00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:46.400
prayers. Life... It has no meaning anymore, does

00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:51.079
it? His name is Lestat. What if I could give

00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:54.980
it back to you? Pluck out the pain and give you

00:18:54.980 --> 00:18:59.500
another life. One you could never imagine. I

00:18:59.500 --> 00:19:03.279
can see you lying on a bed of satin. He chose

00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:09.119
one man. He gave him infinite power. Eternal

00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:15.460
life. And a daughter. would be forever young.

00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:23.660
This is the only real evil left. And then he

00:19:23.660 --> 00:19:34.539
took the light of day. You're a vampire who never

00:19:34.539 --> 00:19:37.519
knew what life was until it ran out in a red

00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:42.839
gush over your lips. I can't stand this any longer.

00:19:43.450 --> 00:19:46.269
You made us what we are, didn't you? God kills

00:19:46.269 --> 00:19:53.210
indiscriminately. And so shall we. You like dying?

00:19:53.250 --> 00:20:16.369
You condemn me to hell? Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt,

00:20:16.650 --> 00:20:21.730
Stephen Ray, Antonio Banderas, Kirsten Dunst,

00:20:21.890 --> 00:20:27.250
and Christian Slater. Interview with the vampire.

00:20:32.490 --> 00:20:34.910
We should be ruling the humans. These people

00:20:34.910 --> 00:20:37.150
are our food. The world you live in is just a

00:20:37.150 --> 00:20:39.410
sugar -coated top. There's a war going on out

00:20:39.410 --> 00:20:42.589
there. This Friday, The Agent Man comes to life.

00:21:01.189 --> 00:21:04.069
Without any further delay, tonight we are talking

00:21:04.069 --> 00:21:06.710
about The Addiction, directed by Abel Ferrara

00:21:06.710 --> 00:21:10.759
from 1995, starring Lily Taylor. She plays a

00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:13.660
PhD student in philosophy who becomes a vampire.

00:21:14.460 --> 00:21:16.279
That's the story in a nutshell, but there's certainly

00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:18.359
a lot more to the movie than that. Vincent, maybe

00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:20.680
we'll start with you. What's your history with

00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.640
The Addiction? None. I never heard of it until

00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:25.400
you brought it to the show, which I've said it

00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:27.980
before and I'll say it again. I love that aspect

00:21:27.980 --> 00:21:31.259
of our podcast where I can be introduced to movies

00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:34.500
like this. I had no idea what to watch. I was

00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:37.930
just thinking a mid -90s vampire movie. You know

00:21:37.930 --> 00:21:39.950
what some other mid -90s vampire movies are?

00:21:40.690 --> 00:21:45.990
Interview with a Vampire, or Blade, or like movies

00:21:45.990 --> 00:21:48.869
that rock, but can kind of be campy and cheesy

00:21:48.869 --> 00:21:52.869
at the same time. I was not expecting the tone

00:21:52.869 --> 00:21:56.569
that this movie sets. Very grounded, very serious.

00:21:57.210 --> 00:22:00.049
Yeah, it's a very striking movie visually. I

00:22:00.049 --> 00:22:02.029
mean, it's shot in black and white, mostly on

00:22:02.029 --> 00:22:04.259
the streets of New York. It's a very philosophical

00:22:04.259 --> 00:22:07.220
movie, lots of philosophical quotes and debates

00:22:07.220 --> 00:22:09.819
throughout the film. So yeah, a very, very unique

00:22:09.819 --> 00:22:12.259
vampire movie for sure. Frank, what was your

00:22:12.259 --> 00:22:15.019
history with the movie? Almost nonexistent until

00:22:15.019 --> 00:22:18.279
a few nights ago. I had heard of it. I do remember,

00:22:18.500 --> 00:22:23.380
so back in 95, I would have been like 11 years

00:22:23.380 --> 00:22:28.079
old, and my mom had an Entertainment Weekly subscription,

00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:31.200
which kind of became... like unofficially my

00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:34.839
subscription i remember they they gave it like

00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:36.599
a pretty negative review i want to say they gave

00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:39.160
it like a c minus or something but it was the

00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:42.359
kind of review where like reading it i was like

00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:45.039
oh even though they thought this was bad it sounds

00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:49.359
awesome it was you know they were i think mostly

00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:51.730
talking about how like weird and pretentious

00:22:51.730 --> 00:22:53.750
it was and i was like oh that sounds right up

00:22:53.750 --> 00:22:58.190
my alley so i i kind of always wanted to see

00:22:58.190 --> 00:23:00.369
it but then i i kind of forgot about it over

00:23:00.369 --> 00:23:01.970
the years because it's not really a movie that

00:23:01.970 --> 00:23:04.849
has a you know a significant cult following or

00:23:04.849 --> 00:23:07.630
anything as far as i know and you know i i know

00:23:07.630 --> 00:23:11.609
it like played on very few screens you know during

00:23:11.609 --> 00:23:13.650
its initial run and everything so i don't think

00:23:13.650 --> 00:23:16.829
it was ever any kind of ever even like approaching

00:23:16.829 --> 00:23:19.250
being any kind of hit or i've even really had

00:23:19.250 --> 00:23:22.289
a chance to be a hit so it's kind of one that

00:23:22.289 --> 00:23:24.630
i i forgot about over the years but i'm glad

00:23:24.630 --> 00:23:28.230
glad to have finally watched it yeah i had a

00:23:28.230 --> 00:23:30.990
similar history or lack thereof with this movie

00:23:30.990 --> 00:23:34.009
i i was like you my parents also had an entertainment

00:23:34.009 --> 00:23:35.690
weekly subscription and i think that's when i

00:23:35.690 --> 00:23:38.009
first heard about this movie And like over the

00:23:38.009 --> 00:23:39.890
years, like I heard that Lily Taylor gives a

00:23:39.890 --> 00:23:42.190
really good performance. I read that it's like

00:23:42.190 --> 00:23:45.309
a metaphor for addiction and some other things

00:23:45.309 --> 00:23:46.930
that we'll be talking about, not surprisingly

00:23:46.930 --> 00:23:49.230
given the title. But yeah, for whatever reason,

00:23:49.269 --> 00:23:51.329
I just haven't actually watched it till now.

00:23:51.769 --> 00:23:54.970
I'm also a fan of Abel Ferrara, the kind of uneven,

00:23:55.150 --> 00:23:57.529
controversial director of this movie. So I've

00:23:57.529 --> 00:23:59.829
always been interested to see this. And I'm glad,

00:23:59.950 --> 00:24:01.950
you know, finally had the chance to do so for

00:24:01.950 --> 00:24:04.750
this episode. So that might be a good segue.

00:24:04.829 --> 00:24:06.750
If you guys don't mind, maybe I'll talk about

00:24:06.750 --> 00:24:08.529
Abel Ferrara a little bit just because I am a

00:24:08.529 --> 00:24:10.930
fan of his and then we can kind of rotate and

00:24:10.930 --> 00:24:12.390
talk about the rest of the crew a little bit.

00:24:13.609 --> 00:24:15.950
So Abel Ferrara, a very well -known figure from

00:24:15.950 --> 00:24:19.170
the underground New York filmmaking scene. He's

00:24:19.170 --> 00:24:21.970
achieved quite a bit of acclaim as well as notoriety

00:24:21.970 --> 00:24:24.450
with movies like Bad Lieutenant, King of New

00:24:24.450 --> 00:24:28.230
York, Miss 45, and Body Snatchers, one of several

00:24:28.230 --> 00:24:31.109
remakes of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Ferrara

00:24:31.109 --> 00:24:33.569
is an Irish -Italian filmmaker, born in the Bronx.

00:24:33.750 --> 00:24:36.509
He was raised Catholic. Lots of themes of sin,

00:24:36.710 --> 00:24:39.529
redemption, guilt, so on, reappear often throughout

00:24:39.529 --> 00:24:42.349
his work. He does live in Rome now, and he's

00:24:42.349 --> 00:24:45.230
kind of permanently self -exiled in Rome, even

00:24:45.230 --> 00:24:47.930
though he's a New Yorker. He's well known for

00:24:47.930 --> 00:24:50.069
controversial themes and provocative content,

00:24:50.250 --> 00:24:52.289
dating back to his early years as a director

00:24:52.289 --> 00:24:55.630
and sometimes performer in pornographic films.

00:24:55.890 --> 00:24:58.970
His feature debut, I have to admit, has a title

00:24:58.970 --> 00:25:01.390
that I really love, Nine Lives of a Wet Pussy.

00:25:01.509 --> 00:25:03.950
You can bleep that out if you want, Vincent.

00:25:04.109 --> 00:25:08.140
He directed that and started it in 1976. And

00:25:08.140 --> 00:25:10.099
then his follow up movie was The Driller Killer

00:25:10.099 --> 00:25:15.240
from 1979. Is that a porno? No, but I've seen

00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:16.960
bits and pieces of it. I haven't seen the whole

00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:19.740
thing. And it's extremely sleazy. It's like,

00:25:19.740 --> 00:25:22.859
you know, a shot for like no money on the streets

00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:25.119
of New York. It's about a homicidal killer who

00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:27.779
uses a drill. So the title is not just a clever

00:25:27.779 --> 00:25:31.119
title. But I actually like what I've seen. But

00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:32.640
I really do need to sit down and watch it from

00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:35.170
beginning to end sometime soon. Frank, have you

00:25:35.170 --> 00:25:37.250
seen those early Ferrara movies or like any of

00:25:37.250 --> 00:25:39.390
those other sort of porn adjacent movies from

00:25:39.390 --> 00:26:08.230
the 70s? messy and uneven movie overall and i've

00:26:08.230 --> 00:26:12.309
seen i've seen king of new york which is really

00:26:12.309 --> 00:26:16.329
good i've seen a few other things he had a movie

00:26:16.329 --> 00:26:19.690
that i'm blanking on the title of somewhat recently

00:26:19.690 --> 00:26:23.089
about basically like the last night on earth

00:26:23.089 --> 00:26:25.589
like every like people know that it's going to

00:26:25.589 --> 00:26:29.490
be the apocalypse and you and you you know see

00:26:29.490 --> 00:26:32.349
these people in all different areas of the world

00:26:32.349 --> 00:26:35.579
kind of Just experiencing their last night on

00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:39.480
Earth, basically. I love that movie. Yeah, I

00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.059
remember that being good. What's the title of

00:26:41.059 --> 00:26:42.859
that? I'm blanking on it. I think it's called

00:26:42.859 --> 00:26:47.079
444, Last Day on Earth. Yes, yeah. Yeah, that

00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:52.019
one I've seen. And other than that, I'm not sure

00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:55.279
that I've seen any of his other movies. I know

00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:58.740
Miss 45 seems to generally be, that seems to

00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:01.599
be the consensus that that's his best work. I

00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:04.970
haven't seen it. I do love. Yeah, I like that

00:27:04.970 --> 00:27:07.170
one a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, of course,

00:27:07.190 --> 00:27:08.509
I've seen the addiction that we're going to talk

00:27:08.509 --> 00:27:10.690
about. But yeah, I'm not super familiar with

00:27:10.690 --> 00:27:13.809
his work. But but based on the handful of things

00:27:13.809 --> 00:27:17.190
I've seen, it's definitely like it seems to me

00:27:17.190 --> 00:27:21.309
that he is very sort of like punk rock type of

00:27:21.309 --> 00:27:24.190
approach to art. It seems like he's not super

00:27:24.190 --> 00:27:29.130
interested in. He's almost the opposite of somebody

00:27:29.130 --> 00:27:32.029
like a Stanley Kubrick, you know, like it's like

00:27:32.029 --> 00:27:36.759
he. The Abel Ferrara movies are very much like

00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:41.440
kind of unrefined, almost like he's not even

00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:44.740
necessarily interested in like digesting some

00:27:44.740 --> 00:27:46.599
of these big ideas that he's putting out there.

00:27:46.660 --> 00:27:49.519
He's just kind of throwing them out there and

00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:51.599
then like you have to deal with it. You know

00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:54.740
what I mean? Yeah. And yeah, very kind of like

00:27:54.740 --> 00:27:57.420
King of New York's a little different. That's

00:27:57.420 --> 00:27:59.640
a fairly slick movie, but his other movies are

00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:03.980
very much like. kind of run and gone feel almost

00:28:03.980 --> 00:28:07.740
like semi -improvised in a way like maybe the

00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:10.039
the dialogue isn't necessarily improvised but

00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:13.240
almost feels like oh like you know we just just

00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:17.200
happened to come across this location here let's

00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:20.539
quick set the cameras up and film right here

00:28:20.539 --> 00:28:24.579
you know that kind of thing so yeah very very

00:28:24.579 --> 00:28:29.079
interesting director very very like messy and

00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:32.130
and uneven even like within the movies, I would

00:28:32.130 --> 00:28:35.130
say, but very interesting. I'd like to see more

00:28:35.130 --> 00:28:38.029
of this stuff. Yeah, I definitely agree with

00:28:38.029 --> 00:28:40.990
all that, for sure. Miss 45 is great. That's

00:28:40.990 --> 00:28:42.950
kind of a rape -revenge movie, and I feel like

00:28:42.950 --> 00:28:45.609
those movies are extremely hard to make without

00:28:45.609 --> 00:28:47.710
seeming kind of sleazy and hypocritical, but

00:28:47.710 --> 00:28:49.650
that movie is one of the few good ones that I've

00:28:49.650 --> 00:28:53.730
seen of that subgenre. And something that I think

00:28:53.730 --> 00:28:55.410
we'll probably talk about more is that I think

00:28:55.410 --> 00:28:58.069
The Addiction is kind of a weird... blend of

00:28:58.069 --> 00:29:00.630
like that you know run and gun guerrilla style

00:29:00.630 --> 00:29:03.410
filmmaking along with like a more like kind of

00:29:03.410 --> 00:29:05.670
like polished style because i do think that this

00:29:05.670 --> 00:29:08.410
is a very beautiful movie and like you know certainly

00:29:08.410 --> 00:29:12.029
very well written or at least very verbose so

00:29:12.029 --> 00:29:13.569
yeah it's kind of an interesting blend of styles

00:29:13.569 --> 00:29:16.630
you know one last thing i want to mention about

00:29:16.630 --> 00:29:18.509
ferrara that's pertinent to our conversation

00:29:18.509 --> 00:29:21.109
tonight is that he's openly spoken about his

00:29:21.109 --> 00:29:23.049
own struggles with addiction especially to heroin

00:29:24.099 --> 00:29:27.359
He has a notorious appearance on the Conan O

00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:29.720
'Brien show from like right around this time,

00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:32.640
95 or 96, I think, where he's clearly under the

00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:35.119
influence and like barely coherent. And Conan

00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:38.000
O 'Brien has said numerous times that Abel Ferrara

00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:39.940
is the worst guest he's ever had on the show.

00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:43.279
So interesting. I mean, kind of sad to watch

00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:45.980
that interview. But, you know, and yeah, Ferrara

00:29:45.980 --> 00:29:48.200
has talked a lot about he's called it his 14

00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:51.160
year journey to try to break out of his addiction

00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:53.279
to heroin. So it's a subject he knows very well.

00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:56.700
But moving on to the rest of the cast and crew,

00:29:56.819 --> 00:29:59.000
a very accomplished cast and crew on this film,

00:29:59.059 --> 00:30:01.619
I would say. The screenplay is by Nicholas St.

00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:06.920
John, whose birth name was Nicodermo Oliverio.

00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:10.799
He and Ferreira collaborated on nine films, including

00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:13.619
the director's debut and his second feature,

00:30:13.819 --> 00:30:18.019
the aforementioned Driller Killer. I wish that

00:30:18.019 --> 00:30:21.740
was a monster movie. Nicholas St. John also wrote

00:30:21.740 --> 00:30:24.259
Miss 45, Body Snatcher's King of New York and

00:30:24.259 --> 00:30:26.339
the Funeral, for which he won several awards.

00:30:27.019 --> 00:30:29.640
He actually refused to write Bad Lieutenant because

00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:31.519
he thought the film and some of its concepts

00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:34.279
were too blasphemous. St. John, like Ferreira,

00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:38.799
is a devout Catholic. The two had a falling out

00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:42.880
after the funeral for unclear reasons. The addiction

00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:45.859
was produced by Russell Simmons. the co -founder

00:30:45.859 --> 00:30:48.500
with Rick Rubin of Def Jam Records, of all things,

00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:52.460
and several fashion lines. Russell Simmons' company,

00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:55.299
Rush Communications Incorporated, also produced

00:30:55.299 --> 00:30:59.160
Def Comedy Jam, Def Poetry Jam, The Nutty Professor,

00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:03.859
How to Be a Player, and more. Cinematography

00:31:03.859 --> 00:31:09.559
by Ken Kelch. Yeah, so Kelch was a Vietnam vet

00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:12.200
who had collaborated with Ferrara on a bunch

00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:15.529
of his movies. It says here 13. including some

00:31:15.529 --> 00:31:17.710
of his more famous ones like Driller, Killer,

00:31:17.869 --> 00:31:21.569
Bad Lieutenant, and The Funeral. And I think

00:31:21.569 --> 00:31:26.730
his work on the addiction is, you know, some

00:31:26.730 --> 00:31:28.430
of the best stuff in it. There's some really,

00:31:28.450 --> 00:31:31.049
really incredible shots in it. And just the overall

00:31:31.049 --> 00:31:34.410
look of the movie is very, very spellbinding.

00:31:35.609 --> 00:31:38.789
Unfortunately, he passed away from COVID back

00:31:38.789 --> 00:31:45.769
in 2023. And the music is by Joe Delia. who had

00:31:45.769 --> 00:31:48.269
a blues band called Joe Delia and the Thieves,

00:31:48.289 --> 00:31:51.569
and also had a history as a session musician

00:31:51.569 --> 00:31:54.289
with big names like Chuck Berry, Pat Benatar,

00:31:54.490 --> 00:31:57.789
and Stevie Wonder. And he's another guy who collaborated

00:31:57.789 --> 00:32:00.369
with Ferrara quite frequently, doing some of

00:32:00.369 --> 00:32:03.529
the music on Miss 45, King of New York, Bad Lieutenant,

00:32:03.970 --> 00:32:07.640
and Body Snatchers. And we'll see that that's

00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:09.319
kind of like a running theme with the cast as

00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:11.259
well, that there are a lot of collaborators that

00:32:11.259 --> 00:32:13.680
Ferrara would work with often. And I just think

00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:15.160
that's kind of interesting because he seems like

00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:18.220
a very abrasive guy, like watching interviews

00:32:18.220 --> 00:32:21.259
with him. He's fascinating, but it's like, oh,

00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:23.940
this is a rough character, you know? But apparently

00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:26.000
everybody or a lot of people really liked working

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:28.000
with him because they did so over and over again.

00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:30.119
So I always find it interesting when directors

00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:32.259
have their kind of company that they work with.

00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:36.079
Moving on to the cast real quick, I'll start

00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:38.859
with the lead, Lily Taylor. She plays Kathy,

00:32:39.059 --> 00:32:42.319
a philosophy PhD student who, like I said before,

00:32:42.460 --> 00:32:45.420
becomes a vampire. Very well known from independent

00:32:45.420 --> 00:32:48.180
films and some TV shows from the late 80s and

00:32:48.180 --> 00:32:51.960
1990s. She starred in some TV shows in the 80s,

00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:54.349
like Crime Story. and some movies in the late

00:32:54.349 --> 00:32:56.970
80s like Mystic Pizza, a title that I always

00:32:56.970 --> 00:32:59.210
love, Say Anything, and Born on the Fourth of

00:32:59.210 --> 00:33:02.529
July. She later appeared in Dogfight, Shortcuts,

00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:05.289
I Shot Andy Warhol, and many, many others. And

00:33:05.289 --> 00:33:07.750
she's fantastic in this movie, I think. Edie

00:33:07.750 --> 00:33:10.730
Falco is in this film. She plays Kathy's friend,

00:33:10.930 --> 00:33:14.630
Jean, and a fellow student at the college. Edie

00:33:14.630 --> 00:33:17.569
Falco is a Brooklynite who rose to prominence

00:33:17.569 --> 00:33:22.200
in the 90s with roles on TV. And her most well

00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:27.339
-known credit is The Sopranos. She won numerous

00:33:27.339 --> 00:33:30.700
awards for her role as Tony Soprano's wife. I've

00:33:30.700 --> 00:33:33.759
never seen it. Shame on me. So I don't remember

00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:37.380
her character's name. But even I know her from

00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:39.339
that. And again, I've never seen it. That's how

00:33:39.339 --> 00:33:42.900
entrenched I think The Sopranos is in our culture.

00:33:43.539 --> 00:33:46.799
But anyways. Her name is Carmella. Carmella.

00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:52.500
She is great on that show. Cool. Edie Falco,

00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:56.900
some other famous film roles were in private

00:33:56.900 --> 00:34:01.619
parts Copland and Sunshine State. She has spoken

00:34:01.619 --> 00:34:04.539
openly about her struggles with alcoholism and

00:34:04.539 --> 00:34:07.480
is a supporter of Alcoholics Anonymous, making

00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:11.059
her familiar with the themes of the addiction.

00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:14.820
And Christopher Walken plays a centuries -old

00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:17.739
vampire who's learned to control his cravings.

00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:20.480
He essentially in this movie has just kind of

00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:24.320
like a cameo, but it's very memorable part of

00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.000
the movie. I think definitely one of the clear

00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:29.739
highlights. He's another native of New York from

00:34:29.739 --> 00:34:33.179
Queens, and he is a frequent collaborator with

00:34:33.179 --> 00:34:36.260
Abel Ferrara, first working with him on King

00:34:36.260 --> 00:34:39.480
of New York, where he has one of his better performances,

00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:42.000
I think, and does a surprising amount of dancing

00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:45.570
in it. And he also later worked with Ferrara

00:34:45.570 --> 00:34:50.090
on The Funeral and New Rose Hotel. And one really

00:34:50.090 --> 00:34:52.750
interesting backstory note about this movie is

00:34:52.750 --> 00:34:55.949
that when he read the script, he had assumed

00:34:55.949 --> 00:34:58.809
that the role that he wound up playing was written

00:34:58.809 --> 00:35:00.889
to be a man, but it was actually meant to be

00:35:00.889 --> 00:35:03.630
a woman. But even after finding that out, he

00:35:03.630 --> 00:35:07.670
still wanted that role, and Abel Ferrara obliged

00:35:07.670 --> 00:35:12.110
him. And then another vampire character in the

00:35:12.110 --> 00:35:15.099
movie, who is a woman, was originally meant to

00:35:15.099 --> 00:35:17.000
be a man. So they just kind of gender reversed

00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:21.400
those roles to accommodate Christopher Walken.

00:35:22.099 --> 00:35:24.079
And I think they're both great. Walken is really

00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:28.510
good in his role. And then the other... The other

00:35:28.510 --> 00:35:30.309
vampire character who's played by a woman, the

00:35:30.309 --> 00:35:33.210
character's name is Casanova, and she's played

00:35:33.210 --> 00:35:36.150
by Annabella Sciorra. But she's the vampire who

00:35:36.150 --> 00:35:39.530
initially turns Kathy. She kind of lures her

00:35:39.530 --> 00:35:43.110
into this alleyway and like dark New York nights

00:35:43.110 --> 00:35:45.489
and turns her into a vampire. Her first film

00:35:45.489 --> 00:35:48.329
role was in True Love from 1989. She was in a

00:35:48.329 --> 00:35:50.130
lot of popular movies throughout the 90s, including

00:35:50.130 --> 00:35:53.070
Reversal of Fortune, Jungle Fever, The Hand That

00:35:53.070 --> 00:35:55.449
Rocks the Cradle, Copland, like we mentioned

00:35:55.449 --> 00:35:58.000
before. and then some other later Ferrara films

00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:00.679
like The Funeral and New Rose Hotel. She was

00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:03.119
also on The Sopranos and Law & Order. Edie Falco

00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:05.940
was also on both those shows. And this is somewhat

00:36:05.940 --> 00:36:08.360
unrelated, but you might recognize Annabella

00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:10.800
Sciorra's name because she was a leading figure

00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:13.260
in the Me Too movement. She alleged that Harvey

00:36:13.260 --> 00:36:17.440
Weinstein raped her in 1993 and harassed her

00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:20.139
repeatedly over the years. Sciorra was a key

00:36:20.139 --> 00:36:21.960
witness in the trial leading to his conviction.

00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:24.679
So obviously a difficult experience for her.

00:36:24.780 --> 00:36:27.519
She's really great in this movie. She is. I think

00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:31.719
that that sort of twist of fate that her role

00:36:31.719 --> 00:36:35.239
and Christopher Walken's roles were swapped just

00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:37.719
works so well for this movie. Like, it would

00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:40.800
have been fine if the Kathy character was initially

00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:44.719
attacked by a man. Like, that gives its own thematic

00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:48.440
depth. But the fact that it's a woman made it

00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:50.500
more interesting to me because I didn't expect

00:36:50.500 --> 00:36:53.900
that. And if you want to read thematically into

00:36:53.900 --> 00:36:58.570
that... you could too that's maybe just as interesting

00:36:58.570 --> 00:37:03.309
so yeah i'm glad that ferrara for whatever reason

00:37:03.309 --> 00:37:06.650
decided to swap those two roles yeah it's very

00:37:06.650 --> 00:37:08.650
interesting to imagine the movie if the roles

00:37:08.650 --> 00:37:10.730
were reversed i don't i almost wish that they

00:37:10.730 --> 00:37:12.909
like shot it both ways and that you could watch

00:37:12.909 --> 00:37:15.570
both you know but but yeah i think the way it

00:37:15.570 --> 00:37:19.369
turned out was was for the best Yeah, just like

00:37:19.369 --> 00:37:22.389
imagining like very handsome male vampire, like

00:37:22.389 --> 00:37:24.829
seducing her on the streets of New York seems

00:37:24.829 --> 00:37:26.449
like it maybe would have been like a little bit

00:37:26.449 --> 00:37:28.789
more cliched. I would say there's not very much

00:37:28.789 --> 00:37:30.550
about this movie that's cliched. So that's hard

00:37:30.550 --> 00:37:32.550
to imagine. But like, you know, flipping the

00:37:32.550 --> 00:37:34.409
genders does make it seem a little bit more original,

00:37:34.449 --> 00:37:39.329
I would say. Yeah. Paul Cauldron plays Kathy's

00:37:39.329 --> 00:37:42.510
professor. He's a Puerto Rican actor who gained

00:37:42.510 --> 00:37:46.500
acclaim as a theater actor in the 1980s. He also

00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:49.219
appeared on the show Miami Vice and the music

00:37:49.219 --> 00:37:52.500
video for Michael Jackson's Thriller. He starred

00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:54.840
in many films, including King of New York, Bad

00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:57.440
Lieutenant, Pulp Fiction, Sea of Love, Out of

00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:02.420
Sight, Copland, 21 Grams, and a lot more. Yeah,

00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:05.059
really interesting, accomplished cast in this

00:38:05.059 --> 00:38:06.800
movie and a lot of good performances, I would

00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:09.840
say. So let's dive into the production backstory

00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.719
of The Addiction a little bit. I will say that

00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:14.960
I tried to watch some interviews with Abel Ferrara,

00:38:15.019 --> 00:38:17.119
and like I said, he's just really a character,

00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:19.900
and it's hard to get any kind of coherent information

00:38:19.900 --> 00:38:22.219
from his interviews, because he's like, yeah,

00:38:22.260 --> 00:38:23.940
bro, we were just running around the streets

00:38:23.940 --> 00:38:26.400
of New York, you dig? It was fucking crazy, man.

00:38:26.500 --> 00:38:28.559
You can bleep that out as well, but hard to get

00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:30.219
any actual information from those interviews,

00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:31.719
but a lot of fun to watch if you haven't checked

00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:35.380
him out. I haven't, and I will, because on Letterboxd,

00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:37.820
there's a popular review someone wrote. They

00:38:37.820 --> 00:38:44.059
transcribed sections of the DVD commentary with

00:38:44.059 --> 00:38:47.380
Abel Ferrara, and it's exactly what you're describing.

00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:54.239
It seems like it's not a good commentary if you

00:38:54.239 --> 00:39:00.199
want to learn more about the movie. But a great

00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:02.420
commentary if you just want to, like, spend time

00:39:02.420 --> 00:39:04.380
with larger -than -life personality, you know?

00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:08.659
Yes. I think that type of attitude kind of comes

00:39:08.659 --> 00:39:12.179
through in the movies, too. His movies that I've

00:39:12.179 --> 00:39:16.780
seen are all fairly, like, scattershot, I would

00:39:16.780 --> 00:39:20.380
say. But, you know, not particularly focused.

00:39:20.500 --> 00:39:23.780
But they definitely have, like, a flavor to them

00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:27.579
and a lot of personality. So that's the trade

00:39:27.579 --> 00:39:32.980
-off. Yeah, which I do enjoy. Yeah, a worthy

00:39:32.980 --> 00:39:35.079
trade -off, I would say. But the little bit of

00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:37.300
information I was able to find on the production

00:39:37.300 --> 00:39:39.360
backstory for The Addiction, Ferrara conceived

00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:42.219
of the general idea, which he admitted was an

00:39:42.219 --> 00:39:44.659
explicit metaphor for drug addiction. And then

00:39:44.659 --> 00:39:46.980
the screenwriter, Nicholas St. John, emphasized

00:39:46.980 --> 00:39:49.400
some of the Catholic allegories in the film about

00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:52.659
sin, redemption, you know, human powerlessness

00:39:52.659 --> 00:39:56.179
in the face of God. I also read that... It was

00:39:56.179 --> 00:39:58.800
St. John who kind of took the idea of vampires

00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:01.579
and kind of really embellished that. And Ferrara

00:40:01.579 --> 00:40:03.619
wasn't totally sure if that would work. But then

00:40:03.619 --> 00:40:06.760
when he read the screenplay, which Ferrara described

00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:09.039
as beautiful, he was sold on the vampire concept

00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:11.519
and kind of believed that it could function as

00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:13.019
a metaphor in a lot of different ways, which

00:40:13.019 --> 00:40:15.849
I think it certainly does. He, Ferrara, also

00:40:15.849 --> 00:40:18.449
referred to The Addiction as a pure Nicky film,

00:40:18.610 --> 00:40:20.829
referring to Nicholas St. John, the screenwriter,

00:40:20.969 --> 00:40:23.250
which I think is kind of interesting. Certainly,

00:40:23.309 --> 00:40:25.190
I think it's a Ferrara film, too. And some of

00:40:25.190 --> 00:40:27.309
the, you know, the personality elements that

00:40:27.309 --> 00:40:29.489
Frank was talking about a little bit scattershot

00:40:29.489 --> 00:40:32.110
and rough around the edges. But, you know, it

00:40:32.110 --> 00:40:35.809
reminds me a little bit. I think Scorsese said

00:40:35.809 --> 00:40:39.820
that. taxi driver was a marty scorsese film and

00:40:39.820 --> 00:40:42.320
raging bull was a paul schrader film paul schrader

00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:44.320
wrote the screenplay for that movie and i just

00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:46.320
think that's kind of interesting because maybe

00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:47.780
a similar thing is kind of happening in this

00:40:47.780 --> 00:40:50.260
case where the screenwriters ideas really kind

00:40:50.260 --> 00:40:53.260
of you know are at least like kind of like equal

00:40:53.260 --> 00:40:57.429
with the director's vision they Did try to secure

00:40:57.429 --> 00:41:00.610
funding, but found it difficult, so it was intentionally

00:41:00.610 --> 00:41:03.030
approached as a low -budget black -and -white

00:41:03.030 --> 00:41:06.090
film. Shot over 20 days, guerrilla style, no

00:41:06.090 --> 00:41:09.809
permits. And watching it, I didn't know any of

00:41:09.809 --> 00:41:12.030
this going into the film, again, and I was watching

00:41:12.030 --> 00:41:15.210
it, and you just get a sense when you yourself

00:41:15.210 --> 00:41:19.429
have made some movies in the city, not New York

00:41:19.429 --> 00:41:22.889
City, just like my hometown. Quick aside, if

00:41:22.889 --> 00:41:26.429
I may. In college, my friends and I wanted to

00:41:26.429 --> 00:41:30.130
make a movie. And in our hometown in Florida,

00:41:30.269 --> 00:41:37.710
small town, we walked into the city house, like

00:41:37.710 --> 00:41:40.170
the courthouse, where all the admin happens,

00:41:40.369 --> 00:41:44.269
the county courthouse. And we were like, we are

00:41:44.269 --> 00:41:46.610
shooting a movie. We would like a permit, please.

00:41:47.289 --> 00:41:50.210
And they gave us, they took us seriously. We

00:41:50.210 --> 00:41:52.630
were like 18. They gave us all this paperwork.

00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:56.559
And like the first questions was like, so what's

00:41:56.559 --> 00:41:59.599
your budget? And we were like, oh, I mean, like

00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:02.360
we literally just want to take our camcorder

00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:05.860
and go. We pointed out the window, out the second

00:42:05.860 --> 00:42:08.900
story window. And we said, we want to film on

00:42:08.900 --> 00:42:15.260
that quarter. And the woman did her level best

00:42:15.260 --> 00:42:19.059
to not tell us to get the freak out of there.

00:42:19.159 --> 00:42:22.900
She was just like, OK, well. You come back and

00:42:22.900 --> 00:42:28.460
let us know when you need us. That was my lesson

00:42:28.460 --> 00:42:30.500
in guerrilla filmmaking. You don't need to ask

00:42:30.500 --> 00:42:34.519
sometimes. Just do it. Just get out there with

00:42:34.519 --> 00:42:38.460
the camera. Yeah. You're overthinking it. I love

00:42:38.460 --> 00:42:43.460
it. So anyways, back to the addiction. Most of

00:42:43.460 --> 00:42:46.199
the cast and crew were employed for, quote, delayed

00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:49.239
compensation. So little or no payment up front.

00:42:50.179 --> 00:42:52.440
Maybe some percentage of profits on the back

00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:55.480
end, which in this case was not much. The film

00:42:55.480 --> 00:42:58.539
was shot on location in New York, Manhattan,

00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:01.840
Greenwich Village, the campus of New York University.

00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:06.000
Lily Taylor and her then boyfriend, Michael Imperioli,

00:43:06.139 --> 00:43:09.599
who actually appears in a small role, would wander

00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:12.480
the streets of Manhattan late at night to prepare.

00:43:13.099 --> 00:43:18.389
I read that too, so yeah. Quick and dirty. This,

00:43:18.469 --> 00:43:23.070
this movie was realist style. Yeah. Ferrara called

00:43:23.070 --> 00:43:25.349
it run and gun filmmaking. And I think that's

00:43:25.349 --> 00:43:27.889
actually a phrase that Frank is somebody, one

00:43:27.889 --> 00:43:29.769
of us, I think said earlier tonight, but yeah,

00:43:30.309 --> 00:43:34.289
it's accurate. Came out on October 5th of 1995

00:43:34.289 --> 00:43:39.030
and extremely small release only playing in seven

00:43:39.030 --> 00:43:45.019
theaters in the U S on its opening weekend. And

00:43:45.019 --> 00:43:48.440
throughout the country, its total release only

00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:52.460
played at about 14 cinemas and had a domestic

00:43:52.460 --> 00:43:56.340
gross of only about $300 ,000. And the budget

00:43:56.340 --> 00:44:00.300
was $500 ,000. So those people who signed up

00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:02.280
for the delayed compensation were probably not

00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:08.260
thrilled about that. But Ferrer did say, or he

00:44:08.260 --> 00:44:10.480
was quoted as saying, there was no money and

00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:13.469
no one expected it to make money. They did it

00:44:13.469 --> 00:44:17.730
for the love of the art, I guess. Generally well

00:44:17.730 --> 00:44:20.030
-reviewed for its intelligence, its uniqueness,

00:44:20.150 --> 00:44:24.449
and for the strong lead performance by Lily Taylor.

00:44:25.349 --> 00:44:27.449
You know, as Vincent kind of mentioned earlier,

00:44:27.690 --> 00:44:30.349
there were kind of a lot of vampire movies in

00:44:30.349 --> 00:44:33.150
the mid -90s. Interview with a Vampire was a

00:44:33.150 --> 00:44:37.469
big one. Nadja. There was also Vampire in Brooklyn,

00:44:37.789 --> 00:44:43.340
which was notoriously not very good. Dracula,

00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:46.019
dead and loving it. Yes, Dracula, dead and loving

00:44:46.019 --> 00:44:47.980
it, which I remember really liking, actually.

00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:51.440
I've seen it. Blade, like Vincent mentioned,

00:44:51.619 --> 00:44:55.960
was just a couple years after this. So, yeah,

00:44:56.019 --> 00:45:00.340
not that I guess vampires are kind of just eternally

00:45:00.340 --> 00:45:03.300
popular. They never really go out of style, but

00:45:03.300 --> 00:45:06.000
this seemed to be a particularly vampire -heavy

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:09.789
time for whatever reason. Well, we'll probably

00:45:09.789 --> 00:45:11.849
talk about this more, but I just think vampires

00:45:11.849 --> 00:45:14.329
work really well as metaphors for a lot of different

00:45:14.329 --> 00:45:16.969
things. So I think in the 90s you have, you know,

00:45:16.989 --> 00:45:19.210
I mean, it was a little bit after like the crack

00:45:19.210 --> 00:45:21.730
epidemic in the 1980s, but I definitely think

00:45:21.730 --> 00:45:23.210
like some addiction themes come through with

00:45:23.210 --> 00:45:25.570
that. And you have the AIDS virus, like really

00:45:25.570 --> 00:45:28.170
kind of reaching its peak in the early 90s. So

00:45:28.170 --> 00:45:31.530
I just think like vampires are a powerful metaphor

00:45:31.530 --> 00:45:33.190
for a lot of those different things that were

00:45:33.190 --> 00:45:39.190
going on in society at the time. The use of the

00:45:39.190 --> 00:45:42.409
archival photos and footage of real atrocities

00:45:42.409 --> 00:45:45.449
that are used in the movies. In the movie, like,

00:45:45.570 --> 00:45:48.909
you know, you see some footage of dead bodies

00:45:48.909 --> 00:45:53.710
from the Holocaust, from My Lai in Vietnam, from

00:45:53.710 --> 00:45:58.190
Bosnia in the Middle East. I'm sure we'll talk

00:45:58.190 --> 00:46:01.820
more about that stuff as we go on here. And for

00:46:01.820 --> 00:46:04.440
a long time, this movie was not available in

00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:07.219
modern formats. It was only available on VHS

00:46:07.219 --> 00:46:10.699
up until about 2018 when Arrow Films released

00:46:10.699 --> 00:46:13.760
a Blu -ray version. I think people heard about

00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:15.840
this movie and maybe wanted to see it. Like if

00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:17.619
Frank and I wanted to see it when we were like

00:46:17.619 --> 00:46:19.599
10 years old, I can only assume that other people

00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:21.940
wanted to as well. But, you know, I mean, like

00:46:21.940 --> 00:46:23.739
it just didn't get a big release, but I think

00:46:23.739 --> 00:46:26.619
hopefully belatedly it'll kind of get the attention

00:46:26.619 --> 00:46:29.380
that I think it deserves. This looks like a really

00:46:29.380 --> 00:46:32.300
nice Blu -ray from Arrow. I just love the cover

00:46:32.300 --> 00:46:34.539
art of this thing. If you want to look it up,

00:46:34.619 --> 00:46:39.500
4K scan, audio commentary. Yep. Yep. That's what

00:46:39.500 --> 00:46:43.360
I was talking about. Documentary interviews.

00:46:44.260 --> 00:46:49.440
Yeah. I'll say just as an aside to Arrow has

00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:52.219
a streaming service that's actually really good.

00:46:52.860 --> 00:46:56.699
I was subscribed to them briefly at the beginning

00:46:56.699 --> 00:47:00.880
of the year. Because there were a couple of Shaw

00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:03.280
Brothers kung fu movies that I saw that they

00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:05.579
had on there that I wanted to watch. And they

00:47:05.579 --> 00:47:08.900
also have some kaiju stuff on there as well.

00:47:09.099 --> 00:47:14.679
They have the Gamera movies and the Machine movies

00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:18.400
are on there. I didn't dive into this too much,

00:47:18.460 --> 00:47:20.820
but it looked like they had some of those weird

00:47:20.820 --> 00:47:26.420
70s sex movies on there as well. Yeah, they specialize.

00:47:27.289 --> 00:47:30.110
in kind of those exploitation movies but but

00:47:30.110 --> 00:47:32.409
yeah it's a really nice nice streaming service

00:47:32.409 --> 00:47:34.730
actually and they do put out really good blu

00:47:34.730 --> 00:47:37.900
-rays and the uh You know, I have to admit that

00:47:37.900 --> 00:47:39.880
I watched The Addiction on Amazon Prime, which

00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:42.599
I think was the same transfer that's part of

00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:44.739
that Blu -ray, and it looks fantastic. It's,

00:47:44.739 --> 00:47:47.780
you know, gorgeous. Just the black and white

00:47:47.780 --> 00:47:50.539
looks really amazing. The, you know, very deep

00:47:50.539 --> 00:47:53.699
black colors and, like, great shadowy cinematography.

00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:56.699
So the recent restoration looks really, really

00:47:56.699 --> 00:48:00.159
great, I would say. Yeah. All right, now is a

00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:03.400
good time for our sponsor break. Just to remind

00:48:03.400 --> 00:48:05.820
you, Camp Kaiju is brought to you by Zach Linder

00:48:05.820 --> 00:48:08.460
and the Zach Pack, powered by Coldwell Banker

00:48:08.460 --> 00:48:10.900
Realty. Whether you're looking for your dream

00:48:10.900 --> 00:48:13.559
home, a savvy investment property, or expert

00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:16.360
guidance in home rehab and flipping, the Zach

00:48:16.360 --> 00:48:18.619
Pack has you covered. Check the link in the show

00:48:18.619 --> 00:48:22.300
notes for more information. Do we have anything

00:48:22.300 --> 00:48:26.539
in Minya's mailbox today? We do, from Superfan

00:48:26.539 --> 00:48:31.179
Don. He writes on Spotify in reaction to our...

00:48:32.099 --> 00:48:36.179
Two episodes ago episode about the Ray Harryhausen

00:48:36.179 --> 00:48:39.719
movie 20 Million Miles to Earth, a wonderful

00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:44.360
50s sci -fi creature feature. So Don says, great

00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:47.960
show. Naomi is once again a wonderful guest star.

00:48:48.219 --> 00:48:50.559
It's been a while since I first saw this one,

00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:53.159
so I rewatched it today. The creature effects

00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:56.099
are amazing. I definitely need to watch some

00:48:56.099 --> 00:48:58.829
more Harryhausen films. They bring back memories

00:48:58.829 --> 00:49:01.510
of my little hometown movie theater and Saturday

00:49:01.510 --> 00:49:04.989
afternoon matinees. Seventh Voyage of Sinbad,

00:49:05.170 --> 00:49:07.869
Jason and the Argonauts, and numerous Godzilla

00:49:07.869 --> 00:49:11.409
films were the usual fare, and I loved them all.

00:49:11.750 --> 00:49:16.710
Thank you, Don. What resonates with me in that

00:49:16.710 --> 00:49:21.130
is him talking about Saturday afternoon matinees.

00:49:21.630 --> 00:49:24.650
And I don't know about you guys, but it doesn't

00:49:24.650 --> 00:49:27.159
happen often, but... Watching a movie in the

00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:29.780
afternoon, especially an action or an adventure

00:49:29.780 --> 00:49:35.059
movie, it just hits different for me. So, yeah,

00:49:35.179 --> 00:49:39.900
I feel you, Don. Especially in the theater and

00:49:39.900 --> 00:49:42.739
preferably on a very hot, blazing summer day

00:49:42.739 --> 00:49:44.679
where you go in the air conditioning for a little

00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:46.559
bit and then you walk outside and you're blinded

00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:48.260
by the sun. There's no better feeling. I love

00:49:48.260 --> 00:49:52.500
that. Like, what time is it? I'm so disoriented

00:49:52.500 --> 00:49:55.159
right now. There's that. And I was even just

00:49:55.159 --> 00:49:58.340
talking about you're at home and like speed comes

00:49:58.340 --> 00:50:01.699
on TNT at one o 'clock in the afternoon. And

00:50:01.699 --> 00:50:03.320
you're like, yeah, I'm going to watch this right

00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:08.079
now. And it's, you know, just that feeling. Whenever

00:50:08.079 --> 00:50:10.679
speed comes on, you can't not watch it. That's

00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:12.380
one of those movies where I'm like, all right,

00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:14.340
I'm in for the next two hours, whatever it is.

00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:16.880
I have to watch this now. It would be a two hour

00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:20.420
runtime. But the... the programming would be

00:50:20.420 --> 00:50:23.340
a three hour block because of all the commercials

00:50:23.340 --> 00:50:27.260
and you're like man there goes my day yeah yeah

00:50:27.260 --> 00:50:29.920
when i was in like fourth or fifth grade speed

00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:32.400
was like my favorite movie i love that movie

00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:34.800
i haven't seen in years but i do need to re -watch

00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:36.860
it because yeah i was i just thought it was so

00:50:36.860 --> 00:50:41.719
awesome back at that age yeah so good It's a

00:50:41.719 --> 00:50:44.460
classic. I feel like 90s action movies like Speed,

00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:48.380
True Lies, Face Off, Broken Arrow. I honestly

00:50:48.380 --> 00:50:50.780
feel that's what got me into loving movies so

00:50:50.780 --> 00:50:53.380
much, you know? Yeah. That was a really great

00:50:53.380 --> 00:50:55.599
era for action movies, now that you mentioned

00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:58.440
some of those. And it was right before CGI took

00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:01.460
over everything. So I think the action movie,

00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:05.480
like the original action movie, none of the superhero

00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:08.760
stuff, I think really peaked in the 90s. And

00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:11.409
it's a golden era. Yeah. And even some of the

00:51:11.409 --> 00:51:14.630
stuff where CGI started to kind of creep in,

00:51:14.769 --> 00:51:17.989
like, you know, like Terminator 2 Judgment Day

00:51:17.989 --> 00:51:21.429
or like the original Jurassic Park, you know,

00:51:21.469 --> 00:51:24.610
those effects are used a lot more judiciously

00:51:24.610 --> 00:51:28.429
and effectively. And I think those, I mean, not

00:51:28.429 --> 00:51:31.090
just I think, I think it's like, I would say

00:51:31.090 --> 00:51:33.710
it's inarguable that those, those movies look

00:51:33.710 --> 00:51:35.949
better than, you know, the average blockbusters

00:51:35.949 --> 00:51:40.869
of today. Totally. I feel like the, I don't know,

00:51:40.889 --> 00:51:43.110
I assume that a lot of directors or filmmakers

00:51:43.110 --> 00:51:44.949
approach things now where it's like, oh, we'll

00:51:44.949 --> 00:51:46.710
just do it later. We'll fix it in post. We'll

00:51:46.710 --> 00:51:49.150
slap some CGI on there. They just kind of take

00:51:49.150 --> 00:51:50.789
that as an assumption, you know, but like back

00:51:50.789 --> 00:51:53.670
in the day, it's like, that should only be like

00:51:53.670 --> 00:51:55.630
the little cherry on top or whatever, you know,

00:51:55.630 --> 00:51:57.730
like whatever we can't do practically, then we'll

00:51:57.730 --> 00:52:00.489
do a CGI. I really want to watch a 90s action

00:52:00.489 --> 00:52:02.730
movie now. Let's get this episode over with.

00:52:02.730 --> 00:52:07.449
No, I'm just kidding. Well, thank you, Don, again.

00:52:07.550 --> 00:52:10.489
And thank you, listeners, for giving us those

00:52:10.489 --> 00:52:13.329
comments. And we look forward to whatever is

00:52:13.329 --> 00:52:17.090
going to be in Minya's mailbox next time. Now,

00:52:17.210 --> 00:52:20.809
the Poverty Row Picture Show. Peter Lorre is

00:52:20.809 --> 00:52:25.849
back. He is in the next room. He's passed out.

00:52:26.630 --> 00:52:29.909
So, you know, guys, say what you want while he's

00:52:29.909 --> 00:52:34.380
asleep. But he will be talking about... a 1944

00:52:34.380 --> 00:52:37.599
movie called The Lady and the Monster, about

00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:40.119
a millionaire's brain that is preserved after

00:52:40.119 --> 00:52:46.019
his death by a scientist. And this brain becomes

00:52:46.019 --> 00:52:49.579
so powerful that it creates a telepathic monster.

00:52:49.860 --> 00:52:53.500
Like the brain transfers its energy into a human

00:52:53.500 --> 00:52:58.800
being and runs amok. Wow. That sounds cool. That

00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:00.559
reminds me of Fiend Without a Face a little bit.

00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:04.719
It does, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Real quick,

00:53:04.860 --> 00:53:06.860
real quick. This movie is an adaptation of a

00:53:06.860 --> 00:53:10.380
Kurt Siadmec novel called Donovan's Brain, which

00:53:10.380 --> 00:53:13.840
was adapted several times into films. But I just

00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:16.780
read Donovan's Brain and can't say enough about

00:53:16.780 --> 00:53:21.219
it as a pulpy horror piece of fiction. It's really

00:53:21.219 --> 00:53:25.400
effective. Cool. Maybe we should do more like

00:53:25.400 --> 00:53:28.039
very brief book reviews on the podcast. That'd

00:53:28.039 --> 00:53:33.659
be kind of fun. Maybe a Patreon perk. Yeah. Oh,

00:53:33.880 --> 00:53:36.159
I'm kind of excited about that now. There's a

00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:38.599
book that I bought recently called The Paleontologist

00:53:38.599 --> 00:53:41.539
that's like, you know, a paperback, you know,

00:53:41.539 --> 00:53:44.119
Paige Turner sort of thriller. Definitely a monster

00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:46.460
story. So maybe I'll bring that to the pod next

00:53:46.460 --> 00:54:02.809
time. All right. We can do a book club. Welcome

00:54:02.809 --> 00:54:06.250
to the Poverty Row Studios on the other side

00:54:06.250 --> 00:54:09.449
of Hollywood. Yes, when the stars were dimmer

00:54:09.449 --> 00:54:12.289
and the red carpets dripped with blood. Together,

00:54:12.590 --> 00:54:15.909
we will watch the best of the worst. Movies known

00:54:15.909 --> 00:54:18.769
for their limited budgets, outlandish concepts,

00:54:19.010 --> 00:54:22.030
and questionable performances. But with enough

00:54:22.030 --> 00:54:25.590
haunted houses, zombies, ape men, and devil bats

00:54:25.590 --> 00:54:29.679
to keep you up at night, this is... The Poverty

00:54:29.679 --> 00:54:32.739
Row Picture Show. And I dare you to sleep through

00:54:32.739 --> 00:54:38.840
these nightmares. And oh, what a waking nightmare

00:54:38.840 --> 00:54:42.099
my life has become. The mysterious and lovely

00:54:42.099 --> 00:54:45.920
raven that had been a -tap -tap -tapping on my

00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:49.519
window has now laid claim to my bedroom. Like

00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:52.840
a harpy of the night, this raven has proven somewhat

00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:56.539
irresistible to my heart. It sounds a little

00:54:56.539 --> 00:55:00.039
strange, I understand, but listeners, I may be

00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:03.980
falling for this raven. Hell, you would do too

00:55:03.980 --> 00:55:07.440
if you saw the way this bird shines with a certain

00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:12.699
primordial effervescence. But whoo -wee, she

00:55:12.699 --> 00:55:16.559
is a ravenous raven and demands that I continue

00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:19.980
the poetry that... Cause to her beating heart.

00:55:23.420 --> 00:55:27.280
Open here I flung the shutter, When with many

00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:30.840
a flirt and flutter In there stepped a stately

00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:34.820
raven Of the saintly days of yore. Not the least

00:55:34.820 --> 00:55:38.579
obeisance made he. Not a minute stopped or stayed

00:55:38.579 --> 00:55:42.139
he, but with mien of lord or lady, perched upon

00:55:42.139 --> 00:55:45.639
my chamber door, perched upon a bustle palace

00:55:45.639 --> 00:55:48.539
just above my chamber door, perched and sat,

00:55:48.699 --> 00:55:53.320
and nothing more. Then this ebony bird, beguiling

00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:57.300
my sad fancy into smiling, by the grave and stern

00:55:57.300 --> 00:56:01.059
decorum of the countenance I wore, Though thy

00:56:01.059 --> 00:56:05.059
crest be shorn and shaven thou, I said. Art sure

00:56:05.059 --> 00:56:08.639
no craven, ghastly, grim, and ancient raven wandering

00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:12.800
from the nightly shore? Tell me what thy lordly

00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:16.820
name is on the night's plutonian shore? Woth

00:56:16.820 --> 00:56:23.099
the raven? Never more. Much I marveled this ungainly

00:56:23.099 --> 00:56:26.960
fowl to hear discourse so plainly. Though its

00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:30.059
answer little meaning, little relevancy bore.

00:56:30.829 --> 00:56:33.989
For we cannot help agreeing that no living human

00:56:33.989 --> 00:56:37.530
being ever yet was blessed with seeing bird above

00:56:37.530 --> 00:56:41.750
his chamber door. Bird or beast upon the sculptured

00:56:41.750 --> 00:56:44.809
bust upon his chamber door with such name as

00:56:44.809 --> 00:56:49.550
nevermore. But the raven, sitting lonely on the

00:56:49.550 --> 00:56:53.409
placid bust, spoke only that one word, as if

00:56:53.409 --> 00:56:57.769
his soul in that one word he did outpour. Nothing

00:56:57.769 --> 00:57:01.320
farther did he utter. Not a feather, then he

00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:05.000
fluttered, Till I scarcely more than muttered,

00:57:05.099 --> 00:57:08.579
Other friends have flown before, On the morrow

00:57:08.579 --> 00:57:11.320
he will leave me, As my hopes have flown before.

00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:17.900
Then the bird said, Never more. Startled at the

00:57:17.900 --> 00:57:20.619
stillness, Broken by replies so aptly spoken,

00:57:20.940 --> 00:57:24.579
Doubtless I said, What it utters is its only

00:57:24.579 --> 00:57:27.320
stock in store caught from some unhappy master

00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:30.300
whom unmerciful disaster followed fast and followed

00:57:30.300 --> 00:57:33.840
faster till his songs one burden bore. Till the

00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:37.019
dirges of his hope that melancholy burden bore

00:57:37.019 --> 00:57:44.219
of never, nevermore. But the raven, still beguiling

00:57:44.219 --> 00:57:48.019
all my fancy into smiling, straight I wheeled

00:57:48.019 --> 00:57:50.719
a cushioned seat in front of bird and bust and

00:57:50.719 --> 00:57:57.719
door. Then, then upon the velvet sinking I betook

00:57:57.719 --> 00:58:02.480
myself to linking, fancy unto fancy, thinking

00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:05.559
that this ominous bird of yore, what this grim,

00:58:05.579 --> 00:58:09.219
ungainly, ghastly, gaunt and ominous bird of

00:58:09.219 --> 00:58:13.239
yore, meant in croaking nevermore. Now leave

00:58:13.239 --> 00:58:17.239
me, raven, please, please, you must leave me

00:58:17.239 --> 00:58:20.630
to my reviews. Poverty row movies must... Must

00:58:20.630 --> 00:58:23.090
get out there, too, to the listeners. Oh, how

00:58:23.090 --> 00:58:26.849
you torture me so, but I have a job to do. All

00:58:26.849 --> 00:58:30.070
right. All right. Thank you. Okay, listeners,

00:58:30.250 --> 00:58:33.590
I am all yours now. Boy, do we have a brain teaser

00:58:33.590 --> 00:58:37.449
of a film this week. 1944's The Lady and the

00:58:37.449 --> 00:58:41.250
Monster from Republic Pictures. This movie is

00:58:41.250 --> 00:58:44.590
an adaptation of the Curt Siodmak's sci -fi novel

00:58:44.590 --> 00:58:48.460
Donovan's Brain. in which the disembodied cerebellum

00:58:48.460 --> 00:58:51.579
gallopantically controls an unwitting scientist

00:58:51.579 --> 00:58:55.280
to do his nefarious bidding. The Lady and the

00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:57.960
Monster largely sticks to the source material,

00:58:58.219 --> 00:59:01.199
but has a few cinematic flourishes. You know,

00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:05.400
a dance number here, film noir shadows there.

00:59:05.780 --> 00:59:09.420
It's really not a bad little chiller, with brutal

00:59:09.420 --> 00:59:12.380
performances from Eric von Stroheim and Richard

00:59:12.380 --> 00:59:16.940
Arlen. As for the brain, You could say it's got

00:59:16.940 --> 00:59:22.059
a lot of nerve in this picture. Oh, well, what

00:59:22.059 --> 00:59:25.559
do you know about my beautiful raven? You, you

00:59:25.559 --> 00:59:38.099
having a mental block. This is the frightening

00:59:38.099 --> 00:59:51.380
and shocking tale of Count Dracula. Liars do

00:59:51.380 --> 00:59:57.179
exist. This one we face is unlike any other.

00:59:58.300 --> 01:00:05.039
He can change the most innocent of humans. Oh,

01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:09.179
Jonathan, let me kiss you. But you see, I'm British.

01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:15.079
So are these. Women are rendered powerless under

01:00:15.079 --> 01:00:21.309
his spell. Stand up. Not you. Sit. You stand.

01:00:21.769 --> 01:00:27.329
No, sit. No, stand. Now, walk to the terrace

01:00:27.329 --> 01:00:33.769
door. Watch out! His evil desire has no end.

01:00:34.210 --> 01:00:38.849
She's alive? She's Nosferatu. She's Italian?

01:00:39.329 --> 01:00:44.030
Up there! Make no mistake. He must be stopped.

01:00:45.190 --> 01:00:50.000
Leslie Nielsen. Peter McNichol. Steven Webber,

01:00:50.119 --> 01:00:54.780
Amy Yazbeck, Lizette Anthony, Harvey Korman,

01:00:55.019 --> 01:00:59.179
and Mel Brooks. If she dies a victim of this

01:00:59.179 --> 01:01:03.320
unspeakable creature, she will become one herself.

01:01:04.059 --> 01:01:12.739
What? She will become one herself. Dracula. Dead

01:01:12.739 --> 01:01:23.630
and loving it. It's good to be dead. What are

01:01:23.630 --> 01:01:25.630
the themes in this movie? I feel like maybe the

01:01:25.630 --> 01:01:27.690
more appropriate question is what themes aren't

01:01:27.690 --> 01:01:30.730
in this movie because there is so much to unpack

01:01:30.730 --> 01:01:33.710
here. I just had copious notes. I was like, this

01:01:33.710 --> 01:01:36.829
is, it's almost not fair. There's so many themes.

01:01:36.909 --> 01:01:40.289
It just covers everything about life and death

01:01:40.289 --> 01:01:44.849
and addiction and free will and determinism.

01:01:44.889 --> 01:01:47.190
I mean, that's... That's kind of like what this

01:01:47.190 --> 01:01:50.929
movie is. This movie is almost like a philosophy

01:01:50.929 --> 01:01:54.969
101, and it hits you with every major philosopher

01:01:54.969 --> 01:01:58.909
any layman has heard of. Nietzsche, Kierkegaard,

01:01:59.130 --> 01:02:02.909
Dante's thrown in there. William S. Burroughs,

01:02:02.909 --> 01:02:07.269
the beat writer from the 50s who chronicled his

01:02:07.269 --> 01:02:11.690
own addiction, he's thrown in there. So, yeah,

01:02:11.710 --> 01:02:13.329
Matt, sorry, I didn't mean to take over, but

01:02:13.329 --> 01:02:16.760
there's just so much. Yeah. No, that's a perfect

01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:18.739
way to dive in because there is so much. And

01:02:18.739 --> 01:02:20.500
Frank kind of alluded to that before, too, where

01:02:20.500 --> 01:02:22.280
it's like kind of all over the place, but I think

01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:24.440
in a really fascinating way. So I think what

01:02:24.440 --> 01:02:26.699
you said is a great way to just, you know, start

01:02:26.699 --> 01:02:28.940
talking about all that stuff because it's there's

01:02:28.940 --> 01:02:31.800
a lot. And yeah, like I didn't really expect

01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:34.139
the philosophy stuff. I did not know that the

01:02:34.139 --> 01:02:36.219
main character was a philosophy Ph .D. student.

01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:39.159
Did not expect all the like quotes of these like

01:02:39.159 --> 01:02:42.289
legendary philosophers. And I'm just curious

01:02:42.289 --> 01:02:45.730
what you guys think about the extremely extensive

01:02:45.730 --> 01:02:49.409
philosophy debates. There are some scenes where

01:02:49.409 --> 01:02:51.409
we're just in a classroom where a professor is

01:02:51.409 --> 01:02:53.530
talking about a lot of this stuff, fate and determinism,

01:02:53.550 --> 01:02:55.809
like you said, Vincent. A lot of just direct

01:02:55.809 --> 01:03:00.409
quotes taken verbatim from philosophers. And

01:03:00.409 --> 01:03:02.690
that kind of thing doesn't always work well,

01:03:02.750 --> 01:03:04.389
but I just want to throw it out to you guys.

01:03:04.429 --> 01:03:06.070
How do you feel about all that stuff in this

01:03:06.070 --> 01:03:10.170
movie? To be honest, my eyes were kind of glazing

01:03:10.170 --> 01:03:13.030
over during some of those stretches of the movie.

01:03:13.989 --> 01:03:19.329
Yeah, I didn't always get the connections between

01:03:19.329 --> 01:03:21.610
what they were talking about in those scenes

01:03:21.610 --> 01:03:24.750
and what happens in the movie. Or at least I

01:03:24.750 --> 01:03:27.829
didn't think that the... At least some of that

01:03:27.829 --> 01:03:34.130
stuff seemed too weighty for a vampire story,

01:03:34.289 --> 01:03:38.199
I thought. It didn't always seem like it really

01:03:38.199 --> 01:03:42.119
cohered to me. I think that's fair, yeah. Frank,

01:03:42.119 --> 01:03:46.019
would you say the same thing about the photos

01:03:46.019 --> 01:03:48.960
and film footage of actual atrocities, the Holocaust

01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:52.420
and Vietnam and stuff like that? I guess the

01:03:52.420 --> 01:03:54.460
idea is that they're sort of being drawn into

01:03:54.460 --> 01:03:59.219
the most sordid corners of humanity, and then

01:03:59.219 --> 01:04:03.500
here we're seeing the worst of humanity in these...

01:04:04.390 --> 01:04:09.570
Pictures and things. But it did seem like. A

01:04:09.570 --> 01:04:14.849
stretch. To me to connect those. And. I do think

01:04:14.849 --> 01:04:17.989
some of that stuff. Comes off a bit tasteless.

01:04:18.170 --> 01:04:21.710
It reminded me weirdly of. It was a classic.

01:04:21.889 --> 01:04:27.050
X -Files episode. Called Squeeze. Which I remember.

01:04:27.130 --> 01:04:33.079
There's a scene in. That episode. Where. you

01:04:33.079 --> 01:04:35.420
know, there's like a police officer or maybe

01:04:35.420 --> 01:04:37.300
he's a security guard or something. I can't remember

01:04:37.300 --> 01:04:40.480
exactly, but Mulder and Scully are kind of interviewing

01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:42.719
him in relation to this case. And he has some

01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:47.059
sort of experience with the monster that they're

01:04:47.059 --> 01:04:50.820
chasing in this episode. And he like compares,

01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:53.440
and he also is someone who was like old enough

01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:56.300
to have survived the Holocaust. And he's like

01:04:56.300 --> 01:05:01.929
comparing, you know, when he saw the, the aftermath

01:05:01.929 --> 01:05:05.110
of this monster's killings to like what he saw

01:05:05.110 --> 01:05:08.070
in the concentration camps and things like that.

01:05:08.110 --> 01:05:12.449
And it's just like, okay, but this is like about

01:05:12.449 --> 01:05:17.050
a monster who can like, it was like a mutant

01:05:17.050 --> 01:05:19.650
who can squeeze into very tight spaces and stuff

01:05:19.650 --> 01:05:24.179
like that. This is a little bit too silly of

01:05:24.179 --> 01:05:26.400
a framework to, like, support this extremely

01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:29.699
heavy, you know, extremely heavy atrocity thing.

01:05:29.860 --> 01:05:32.739
And in this movie, it's, you know, way more in

01:05:32.739 --> 01:05:35.500
the forefront than it is in that X -Files episode

01:05:35.500 --> 01:05:38.079
where it's just kind of one brief scene. So,

01:05:38.099 --> 01:05:41.519
yeah, that stuff did not work for me in the movie.

01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:47.280
Yeah. Vincent, what did you think? It did largely

01:05:47.280 --> 01:05:51.000
work for me. The movie starts with those really

01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:56.780
graphic images. So it sets the tone for me and

01:05:56.780 --> 01:06:01.199
told me, okay, this is not going to be like a

01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:05.340
campy vampire movie. These images that keep coming

01:06:05.340 --> 01:06:10.739
back of these atrocities, I thought about the

01:06:10.739 --> 01:06:14.099
historical character Vlad the Impaler, from which

01:06:14.099 --> 01:06:17.639
all the Dracula kind of thing is wrapped around

01:06:17.639 --> 01:06:21.739
in. And there's like woodcuts and paintings of

01:06:21.739 --> 01:06:25.380
his own slaughtering of people and putting them

01:06:25.380 --> 01:06:29.840
on pikes and stuff. So for me, Ferrara's use

01:06:29.840 --> 01:06:33.380
of these images kind of bolsters the idea that

01:06:33.380 --> 01:06:37.539
humanity is always capable of these things. And

01:06:37.539 --> 01:06:42.219
just like, what is the push that can put a human

01:06:42.219 --> 01:06:47.019
being over the edge? A Hitler, whoever, the U

01:06:47.019 --> 01:06:50.400
.S. Army. to commit these crimes against humanity.

01:06:51.239 --> 01:06:55.019
So I was reading into that. I am a really big

01:06:55.019 --> 01:06:59.000
academic nerd. I like the college setting a lot,

01:06:59.119 --> 01:07:03.139
and I can get big on philosophy. So I wasn't

01:07:03.139 --> 01:07:05.360
always soaking it in, what they were spitting,

01:07:05.440 --> 01:07:08.059
but I would watch this movie again just to listen

01:07:08.059 --> 01:07:13.079
for this kind of free philosophy lesson. But

01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:15.659
at the same time, I love the idea that at the

01:07:15.659 --> 01:07:19.619
end, Kathy the Kathy character she's over it

01:07:19.619 --> 01:07:23.340
she's disillusioned with with all of this BS

01:07:23.340 --> 01:07:27.519
and she's telling Edie Falco like we're just

01:07:27.519 --> 01:07:31.119
part of the system and and she's like learned

01:07:31.119 --> 01:07:34.679
all this knowledge from college from the system

01:07:34.679 --> 01:07:37.199
and now she's turned against it because she's

01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:40.739
woken up and I and I love that too because it's

01:07:40.739 --> 01:07:44.559
a fair critique of academia Yeah, I think I would

01:07:44.559 --> 01:07:46.880
say it worked for me more than it didn't work

01:07:46.880 --> 01:07:49.760
for me. And I, you know, I do think my eyes kind

01:07:49.760 --> 01:07:51.800
of glazed over for certain parts of it. But then

01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:54.000
like, there would be a line of dialogue or just

01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:56.239
an idea that kind of like brought me back into

01:07:56.239 --> 01:07:58.519
it right away. And like, you know, I kind of

01:07:58.519 --> 01:08:01.320
picked and chose a little bit like what ideas

01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:03.860
stood out the most. Like there's a line of dialogue,

01:08:04.239 --> 01:08:06.559
which is a good example of how kind of pretentious

01:08:06.559 --> 01:08:08.199
it can be, but also very interesting at the same

01:08:08.199 --> 01:08:12.059
time where I think Kathy is quoting a philosopher,

01:08:12.139 --> 01:08:15.300
I forget. which one of the approximately 50 philosophers

01:08:15.300 --> 01:08:17.859
are quoted in this movie it is. But she's like,

01:08:17.939 --> 01:08:19.619
or it could be Christopher Walken, whoever it

01:08:19.619 --> 01:08:22.060
is. They're like, are humans evil because they

01:08:22.060 --> 01:08:24.359
do evil things? Or do they do evil things because

01:08:24.359 --> 01:08:27.239
they're evil? And that kind of seems like a matter

01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:29.039
of semantics. But also, I think it's kind of

01:08:29.039 --> 01:08:31.720
an interesting question. Like, are humans innately

01:08:31.720 --> 01:08:34.180
evil? And is that why these atrocities like the

01:08:34.180 --> 01:08:37.199
Holocaust and, you know, the carnage in Bosnia

01:08:37.199 --> 01:08:38.699
and all that stuff? Is that why they happen?

01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:40.979
Or is it like an anomaly? You know, that's an

01:08:40.979 --> 01:08:43.430
interesting question to me. I do, you know, I

01:08:43.430 --> 01:08:45.329
do think some of that footage does seem kind

01:08:45.329 --> 01:08:47.989
of tasteless or at least like overindulgent at

01:08:47.989 --> 01:08:49.850
times. Like it's really used a lot in this movie.

01:08:50.350 --> 01:08:52.810
But, you know, I think it's interesting. I think

01:08:52.810 --> 01:08:55.789
it mostly worked for me. And Vincent, like you

01:08:55.789 --> 01:08:57.949
were saying, I did not expect the theme about

01:08:57.949 --> 01:09:01.850
like. The ineffectiveness of philosophy, you

01:09:01.850 --> 01:09:04.770
know, like I feel like the idea is kind of like

01:09:04.770 --> 01:09:06.470
at a certain point you have to dive into the

01:09:06.470 --> 01:09:08.250
abyss yourself if you want to experience that,

01:09:08.329 --> 01:09:10.250
you know, and that's exactly what Kathy does.

01:09:10.430 --> 01:09:12.149
And I think like a lot of characters in this

01:09:12.149 --> 01:09:14.649
movie sort of experience that where they are

01:09:14.649 --> 01:09:17.050
like they're attracted to it at the same time

01:09:17.050 --> 01:09:19.289
that they're like traumatized by, you know. And

01:09:19.289 --> 01:09:21.569
I think that question of like just diving into

01:09:21.569 --> 01:09:24.649
the abyss and like experiencing firsthand like

01:09:24.649 --> 01:09:28.409
the. true darkness that humans are capable of.

01:09:28.649 --> 01:09:30.729
Like those were kind of like the main ideas that

01:09:30.729 --> 01:09:32.729
I, that I took from the movie. And I think those

01:09:32.729 --> 01:09:35.890
are really compelling. Well said there. I think

01:09:35.890 --> 01:09:38.630
I did catch something about Kathy saying exactly

01:09:38.630 --> 01:09:41.909
what you said. And I think that's true. I think

01:09:41.909 --> 01:09:45.369
that's the human journey. I think we all go on

01:09:45.369 --> 01:09:49.010
at some point in our lives. You just, you know,

01:09:49.010 --> 01:09:51.590
we all have existential moments and existentialism

01:09:51.590 --> 01:09:57.130
is a philosophy and it's the abyss. That Milton

01:09:57.130 --> 01:09:59.229
was talking about. Look at me up my own butt

01:09:59.229 --> 01:10:02.949
about all this stuff. You belong in the movie.

01:10:03.010 --> 01:10:07.609
You'd be right at home. But then, okay, you're

01:10:07.609 --> 01:10:09.569
at this dinner party with a bunch of vampires.

01:10:09.989 --> 01:10:14.090
Are you among the riffraff who rise up against

01:10:14.090 --> 01:10:18.930
the elites? Or are you the elites who get ripped

01:10:18.930 --> 01:10:22.619
to shreds? I love that moment of metaphor of

01:10:22.619 --> 01:10:26.840
the lower classes rising up. I'm glad you brought

01:10:26.840 --> 01:10:29.060
up that scene. It is nuts, and I don't know if

01:10:29.060 --> 01:10:32.119
it's meant to be comedic, but it is kind of funny,

01:10:32.199 --> 01:10:34.939
but it's also very disturbing and bloody at the

01:10:34.939 --> 01:10:36.680
same time. Frank, what did you think about that

01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:39.680
scene? Yeah, it's one of those scenes where when

01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:42.039
it first starts, it's like, okay, this is kind

01:10:42.039 --> 01:10:45.680
of like a typical monster movie thing. There's

01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:47.899
this attack going on, but then it goes on for

01:10:47.899 --> 01:10:51.760
so long. And just like there's there's multiple

01:10:51.760 --> 01:10:54.039
points where you're like, OK, this must be wrapping

01:10:54.039 --> 01:10:55.859
up or whatever. And then it just like keeps going.

01:10:56.279 --> 01:11:00.260
And it's like more and more gory. And the like

01:11:00.260 --> 01:11:04.340
amount of blood like around Lily Taylor's mouth

01:11:04.340 --> 01:11:07.239
and like on her shirt and stuff when this is

01:11:07.239 --> 01:11:12.100
wrapping up is like insane. Yeah, it's it's definitely.

01:11:12.319 --> 01:11:15.680
Yeah, it starts starts off seeming like a typical

01:11:15.680 --> 01:11:19.119
scene and gets more like. hypnotically insane

01:11:19.119 --> 01:11:22.260
as it goes on it's an orgy maybe calling back

01:11:22.260 --> 01:11:25.699
to his 70s exploitation roots that's what i was

01:11:25.699 --> 01:11:29.979
picking up on and and the movie's such a grounded

01:11:29.979 --> 01:11:33.680
movie and story that when that happens it it

01:11:33.680 --> 01:11:37.159
again i think it leans into the exploitation

01:11:37.159 --> 01:11:40.359
and the shock and the the action that that a

01:11:40.359 --> 01:11:44.399
vampire movie could be so i yeah i said i it

01:11:44.399 --> 01:11:47.619
was a very memorable scene Yeah, like my jaw

01:11:47.619 --> 01:11:50.060
was hanging open throughout at least the latter

01:11:50.060 --> 01:11:53.220
half of that scene. And it reminded me of the

01:11:53.220 --> 01:11:56.539
end or a scene towards the end of Luca Guadagnino's

01:11:56.539 --> 01:11:59.479
remake of Suspiria, where like it should be going

01:11:59.479 --> 01:12:02.319
crazy and like there are beheadings and like,

01:12:02.380 --> 01:12:04.479
you know, blood everywhere and all this stuff.

01:12:04.659 --> 01:12:06.420
But I feel like in that movie, it doesn't really

01:12:06.420 --> 01:12:08.399
work. Like there are just so many weird decisions

01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:10.840
that like. You know, there's like a Tom York

01:12:10.840 --> 01:12:12.560
song in the background that I feel like is very

01:12:12.560 --> 01:12:15.000
out of place. There's a lot of CGI in that scene

01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:17.859
that's like, you know, and it's like also like

01:12:17.859 --> 01:12:19.619
very dark and muddy and it's hard to tell what's

01:12:19.619 --> 01:12:22.100
going on. And I guess I just bring that up because

01:12:22.100 --> 01:12:26.699
like the visceral hypnotic experience that I

01:12:26.699 --> 01:12:29.119
had from the scene in The Addiction is like what

01:12:29.119 --> 01:12:31.319
I wanted from that scene in Suspiria and didn't

01:12:31.319 --> 01:12:33.000
get. But I think this movie pulls it off really

01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:35.319
well. What is there to say about the drug addiction

01:12:35.319 --> 01:12:37.739
theme in this movie? It is kind of like very

01:12:37.739 --> 01:12:40.279
overt right there on the surface. But there are

01:12:40.279 --> 01:12:42.479
still some interesting things about it, I would

01:12:42.479 --> 01:12:45.260
say, beyond just like surface level. Did you

01:12:45.260 --> 01:12:47.659
guys, how did you react to those elements in

01:12:47.659 --> 01:12:51.140
the movie? So I will say that I have not dealt

01:12:51.140 --> 01:12:55.119
with any kind of addiction. So any takes I have

01:12:55.119 --> 01:12:58.779
are just from hearsay and, you know, so very

01:12:58.779 --> 01:13:02.670
surface level. And I admit that. There's a lot

01:13:02.670 --> 01:13:06.310
of conversation around willpower. Like the Christopher

01:13:06.310 --> 01:13:09.670
Walken character, he's overcome his own addiction

01:13:09.670 --> 01:13:15.270
with willpower. And from what I've heard, just

01:13:15.270 --> 01:13:19.229
like telling somebody to will their self through

01:13:19.229 --> 01:13:23.470
an addiction is actually destructive and doesn't

01:13:23.470 --> 01:13:26.569
work. Like you need support and help and mechanisms.

01:13:27.569 --> 01:13:30.569
But again, I say that without any firsthand experience.

01:13:31.210 --> 01:13:33.390
So that was my main take. Other than that, the

01:13:33.390 --> 01:13:35.449
addiction metaphor, it's not really a metaphor.

01:13:37.109 --> 01:13:40.310
This movie is about that, and there's actual

01:13:40.310 --> 01:13:44.310
drug use happening aside from the vampirism.

01:13:45.050 --> 01:13:48.670
But that didn't detract from me. That didn't

01:13:48.670 --> 01:13:50.770
distract. I mean, I didn't mind that it wasn't

01:13:50.770 --> 01:13:52.590
subtext. I was like, okay, this is what this

01:13:52.590 --> 01:13:56.069
movie is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have any

01:13:56.069 --> 01:13:59.140
firsthand experience with substance. abuse or

01:13:59.140 --> 01:14:03.279
substance addiction either but but yeah i i thought

01:14:03.279 --> 01:14:05.779
that was a that was a more potent part of the

01:14:05.779 --> 01:14:09.579
movie for me and and yeah the scenes a lot of

01:14:09.579 --> 01:14:12.619
the scenes where the willie taylor character

01:14:12.619 --> 01:14:17.520
is is feeding i i thought were depicted in really

01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:19.460
interesting ways i mean in that scene we were

01:14:19.460 --> 01:14:21.619
just talking about you know towards the climax

01:14:21.619 --> 01:14:25.729
that's really like almost kind of zany moment,

01:14:25.970 --> 01:14:27.810
but a lot of the other ones where she's just

01:14:27.810 --> 01:14:33.310
eating because she needs to... It's almost...

01:14:33.310 --> 01:14:38.430
The tone of those scenes is almost more sad than

01:14:38.430 --> 01:14:42.989
scary, kind of. There's an element of her needing

01:14:42.989 --> 01:14:46.470
to do it that's a little bit pathetic, I guess

01:14:46.470 --> 01:14:51.529
you could say. You just kind of feel bad for

01:14:51.529 --> 01:14:54.800
her. she's spiraling down and she needs to do

01:14:54.800 --> 01:14:58.119
this thing to to just kind of or feels like she

01:14:58.119 --> 01:14:59.859
needs to do this thing to just kind of keep going

01:14:59.859 --> 01:15:02.800
and yeah there's there's like a weird like sort

01:15:02.800 --> 01:15:05.960
of sorrowful tone to the movie that i don't think

01:15:05.960 --> 01:15:11.430
you usually see in in these vampire movies I

01:15:11.430 --> 01:15:13.329
agree, especially in the moment, in my opinion,

01:15:13.369 --> 01:15:15.449
where she attacks Jean, the Edie Falco character,

01:15:15.630 --> 01:15:18.170
who was her very close friend and still shows

01:15:18.170 --> 01:15:20.510
a lot of support for her. And it's strange because

01:15:20.510 --> 01:15:22.869
by that point, I think Kathy, the Lily Taylor

01:15:22.869 --> 01:15:26.810
character, seems to be almost beyond remorse.

01:15:26.850 --> 01:15:30.210
She's really challenging Jean and at first doesn't

01:15:30.210 --> 01:15:32.890
seem to have a lot of hesitation about attacking

01:15:32.890 --> 01:15:35.310
her friend. But I guess that's the sad part of

01:15:35.310 --> 01:15:38.010
it, of course. And to go back to the scene that

01:15:38.010 --> 01:15:39.670
we were just talking about, the really crazy,

01:15:39.710 --> 01:15:43.149
chaotic blood orgy attack at the dinner party

01:15:43.149 --> 01:15:45.729
that Kathy holds, I think the aftermath of that

01:15:45.729 --> 01:15:48.630
is really interesting because, you know, we see

01:15:48.630 --> 01:15:51.949
Kathy just totally covered in blood, is like

01:15:51.949 --> 01:15:54.210
wandering out of her apartment in a daze and

01:15:54.210 --> 01:15:57.750
then wandering down the streets and then, you

01:15:57.750 --> 01:15:59.430
know, goes to the hospital. And I think that's

01:15:59.430 --> 01:16:01.569
the point where she's like, she can't really

01:16:01.569 --> 01:16:03.890
live with herself anymore. I think she's realized

01:16:03.890 --> 01:16:05.750
what she's become. She's not really human anymore.

01:16:06.210 --> 01:16:08.529
And I think that part of it, like going along

01:16:08.529 --> 01:16:11.329
with the addiction theme, you know, not that

01:16:11.329 --> 01:16:12.649
I have firsthand experience with that either,

01:16:12.689 --> 01:16:15.210
but I think it's like, at what point does like

01:16:15.210 --> 01:16:18.050
an addict, like look at themselves from the outside

01:16:18.050 --> 01:16:20.810
looking in and kind of say like, oh, I am not

01:16:20.810 --> 01:16:24.090
myself. I don't recognize myself, you know, for

01:16:24.090 --> 01:16:26.390
that sort of like, you know, I think pathetic

01:16:26.390 --> 01:16:29.610
is a good word for it. Very effective. emotional

01:16:29.610 --> 01:16:31.670
fallout from that scene for that to come like

01:16:31.670 --> 01:16:35.670
right after that really crazy blood orgy is pretty

01:16:35.670 --> 01:16:38.029
impressive like this is a pretty there are a

01:16:38.029 --> 01:16:39.869
lot of tonal shifts in this movie and i think

01:16:39.869 --> 01:16:42.350
that one works really well another kind of interesting

01:16:42.350 --> 01:16:45.090
thing i think about this movie is you know it's

01:16:45.090 --> 01:16:49.949
so common in uh vampire fiction for the the vampires

01:16:49.949 --> 01:16:52.850
to be kind of depicted as like sexy and like

01:16:52.850 --> 01:16:55.609
that's you know they're sort of seductive in

01:16:55.609 --> 01:16:58.189
that way And in this movie, it's like the vampires

01:16:58.189 --> 01:17:01.369
are sort of seductive, but it's like what they're

01:17:01.369 --> 01:17:07.329
being seduced into is not like sexual per se.

01:17:07.409 --> 01:17:10.609
It's almost more like they're being seduced into,

01:17:10.649 --> 01:17:12.829
I guess, just going to like extremes of human

01:17:12.829 --> 01:17:17.050
experience, like extremes of sordidness, I guess

01:17:17.050 --> 01:17:19.689
you would say. So I thought that was just an

01:17:19.689 --> 01:17:22.609
interesting difference between this movie and

01:17:22.609 --> 01:17:26.380
other vampire stuff I've seen. Same. I feel like

01:17:26.380 --> 01:17:30.039
that's a good segue into some of the Catholic

01:17:30.039 --> 01:17:32.500
themes in this movie, ideas of sin and redemption

01:17:32.500 --> 01:17:35.439
and forgiveness in the face of God, forgiveness

01:17:35.439 --> 01:17:38.220
from God. So yeah, again, I kind of just want

01:17:38.220 --> 01:17:40.899
to open it up to you guys and see if those ideas

01:17:40.899 --> 01:17:42.880
are compelling to you, how you responded to some

01:17:42.880 --> 01:17:45.199
of those themes in the movie. I can start if

01:17:45.199 --> 01:17:49.479
you'd like. Yeah, you go first. You know, I'll

01:17:49.479 --> 01:17:52.079
say right up front that I'm... Not especially

01:17:52.079 --> 01:17:55.020
religious. Like, my dad is Jewish and my mom

01:17:55.020 --> 01:17:57.399
is Christian. And, like, my sister and I were

01:17:57.399 --> 01:17:58.939
raised, like, pretty secular. Like, we didn't

01:17:58.939 --> 01:18:00.619
really go to church or temple or anything when

01:18:00.619 --> 01:18:03.739
I was a kid. So, like, generally themes about,

01:18:03.979 --> 01:18:08.100
you know, faith or lack thereof and, like, redemption,

01:18:08.439 --> 01:18:11.140
atonement, things like that, usually don't really,

01:18:11.199 --> 01:18:13.819
like, hit home for me all that much. And, you

01:18:13.819 --> 01:18:15.439
know, like, Paul Schrader talks about a lot of

01:18:15.439 --> 01:18:17.380
those themes a lot. Abel Ferrara in a lot of

01:18:17.380 --> 01:18:20.220
his movies obviously talks about that. For me,

01:18:20.220 --> 01:18:22.399
I think it was a little bit more effective in

01:18:22.399 --> 01:18:26.020
this movie because of, like, the twin theme of

01:18:26.020 --> 01:18:28.539
addiction. Like, I think there's some dialogue

01:18:28.539 --> 01:18:31.640
in this movie about how, like, if you're aware

01:18:31.640 --> 01:18:34.220
that you're sinning, then you open yourself up

01:18:34.220 --> 01:18:37.680
to judgment from God and, like, you make it possible

01:18:37.680 --> 01:18:40.960
to be forgiven, you know? And I, yeah, that's,

01:18:40.960 --> 01:18:43.619
like, a really compelling idea to me. Like, you

01:18:43.619 --> 01:18:45.520
know, everybody makes mistakes, certainly not

01:18:45.520 --> 01:18:46.960
at the level of the characters in this movie,

01:18:47.020 --> 01:18:51.279
but, like... You know, to just ask like, you

01:18:51.279 --> 01:18:54.119
know, can I be forgiven for what I've done? That's

01:18:54.119 --> 01:18:57.060
a compelling theme. You know, usually I approach

01:18:57.060 --> 01:18:58.760
that from like a non -religious sort of viewpoint.

01:18:59.000 --> 01:19:00.819
But even though it's like very Catholic in this

01:19:00.819 --> 01:19:04.039
movie, I still found it very compelling. I found

01:19:04.039 --> 01:19:09.100
the, I didn't mind it. I didn't feel it resonated

01:19:09.100 --> 01:19:12.140
with me the way to compare it to The Exorcist

01:19:12.140 --> 01:19:15.960
and that Catholic redemption story. Like that

01:19:15.960 --> 01:19:18.720
was very powerful to me. But in The Addiction,

01:19:18.840 --> 01:19:23.779
I think it's because the religious aspect came

01:19:23.779 --> 01:19:27.640
at the end, and it wasn't really woven through

01:19:27.640 --> 01:19:31.079
the rest of the story. So just structurally,

01:19:31.239 --> 01:19:35.359
I was left thinking, oh, okay, we're going to

01:19:35.359 --> 01:19:39.279
end the movie on a religious note. I get it thematically,

01:19:39.399 --> 01:19:41.579
but structurally, I would have liked to have

01:19:41.579 --> 01:19:45.699
seen that woven in more in Kathy's story. What

01:19:45.699 --> 01:19:47.659
was her relationship with the church, with her

01:19:47.659 --> 01:19:51.319
own faith? The movie didn't really explore that

01:19:51.319 --> 01:19:56.199
at all until the end. Yeah, I agree with Vincent.

01:19:56.220 --> 01:19:58.659
I thought that felt very, very rushed at the

01:19:58.659 --> 01:20:03.560
end. And that does seem to be a theme from the

01:20:03.560 --> 01:20:05.800
handful of other Ferreira things that I've seen

01:20:05.800 --> 01:20:09.840
that he's definitely interested in. Bad Lieutenant

01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:15.159
is all about this character who's like a... completely

01:20:15.159 --> 01:20:20.079
repugnant person who's, who's trying to like

01:20:20.079 --> 01:20:26.020
find salvation. And yeah, it didn't seem, yeah,

01:20:26.119 --> 01:20:28.340
it seemed to kind of come out of nowhere in this

01:20:28.340 --> 01:20:31.319
movie. And it just, you know, you see, see the

01:20:31.319 --> 01:20:33.279
character doing terrible things. And then I,

01:20:33.399 --> 01:20:37.539
you know, she makes what I guess you could say

01:20:37.539 --> 01:20:40.399
is sort of a heroic sacrifice at the end, all

01:20:40.399 --> 01:20:43.590
of a sudden out of nowhere. And then, I guess

01:20:43.590 --> 01:20:46.670
has this moment of grace or whatever, but, but

01:20:46.670 --> 01:20:49.550
yeah, I, I guess maybe he's interested in seeing

01:20:49.550 --> 01:20:52.989
how far you can push a character toward being

01:20:52.989 --> 01:20:56.069
unlikable. And then if they're still worthy of

01:20:56.069 --> 01:20:58.609
forgiveness or whatever, but yeah, it wasn't,

01:20:58.609 --> 01:21:01.750
I didn't really buy in into the ending. It seemed

01:21:01.750 --> 01:21:06.689
almost a little bit random to me. Hmm. I think

01:21:06.689 --> 01:21:08.550
that's all fair. Yeah. And I guess like the,

01:21:09.279 --> 01:21:11.500
The downside of stressing that theme is, like,

01:21:11.600 --> 01:21:13.920
I feel like it kind of suggests that, like, one

01:21:13.920 --> 01:21:15.659
way to get through addiction is, like, faith

01:21:15.659 --> 01:21:18.140
in God and, like, religious piety. And, like,

01:21:18.199 --> 01:21:20.199
I don't believe that's a good way to get. I mean,

01:21:20.239 --> 01:21:22.619
like, it helps probably. But, you know, it does

01:21:22.619 --> 01:21:24.880
feel kind of lazy to say that, like, this could

01:21:24.880 --> 01:21:27.319
be your path to salvation or whatever, you know?

01:21:28.039 --> 01:21:32.420
So, yeah, I think it's highly personal. It's

01:21:32.420 --> 01:21:34.819
Nicholas St. John's and Abel Ferrara's story.

01:21:35.630 --> 01:21:38.210
So I don't know if that helped Ferrara through

01:21:38.210 --> 01:21:43.329
his his own journey. So be it. But I agree with

01:21:43.329 --> 01:21:47.130
you, Matt. And and I don't want my criticism

01:21:47.130 --> 01:21:49.090
to also take away from the fact that I agree

01:21:49.090 --> 01:21:53.550
with you on that. That theme of guilt that is

01:21:53.550 --> 01:21:57.250
throughout the film for me. So that works. And

01:21:57.250 --> 01:22:00.409
if anything, her religious acceptance at the

01:22:00.409 --> 01:22:04.310
end is maybe just like another philosophy that

01:22:04.310 --> 01:22:09.220
she. is digging into i i read a review maybe

01:22:09.220 --> 01:22:11.739
i can throw a link in the show notes here but

01:22:11.739 --> 01:22:13.880
i read a review that kind of explored some of

01:22:13.880 --> 01:22:16.239
the religious themes and like one really interesting

01:22:16.239 --> 01:22:18.180
point i thought was like there's the scene where

01:22:18.180 --> 01:22:21.420
kathy is like basically locked in a closet and

01:22:21.420 --> 01:22:23.600
she's like very hysterically screaming like i

01:22:23.600 --> 01:22:25.739
will not submit i will not submit i'm like tearing

01:22:25.739 --> 01:22:28.760
off her clothes and interesting moment kind of

01:22:28.760 --> 01:22:30.399
over the top but pretty powerful i would say

01:22:30.399 --> 01:22:33.939
and like the review you know kind of makes the

01:22:33.939 --> 01:22:35.579
point that like you assume she's saying that

01:22:35.579 --> 01:22:37.220
she's not going to give in to her blood lust

01:22:37.220 --> 01:22:40.199
like she's not going to submit to you like drinking

01:22:40.199 --> 01:22:42.279
the blood of another human being but this review

01:22:42.279 --> 01:22:44.279
made the point that that's also what lucifer

01:22:44.279 --> 01:22:46.899
says to god like i will not submit to you and

01:22:46.899 --> 01:22:49.699
that's like you know an evil figure is sort of

01:22:49.699 --> 01:22:52.260
like you know evil quote unquote sort of saying

01:22:52.260 --> 01:22:55.460
like I don't need your judgment. Like I am my

01:22:55.460 --> 01:22:57.819
own person or whatever. The review says it better

01:22:57.819 --> 01:22:59.800
than I'm saying it right now. But, you know,

01:22:59.800 --> 01:23:01.659
because I'm not very religious, I probably never

01:23:01.659 --> 01:23:02.960
would have really thought of that connection.

01:23:03.079 --> 01:23:04.279
But I thought that was kind of an interesting

01:23:04.279 --> 01:23:06.420
point. I would have liked to have seen more.

01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:10.300
Just if I may wrap this up, I yeah, I would have

01:23:10.300 --> 01:23:12.300
liked to have seen more struggle than between

01:23:12.300 --> 01:23:17.420
those conventions of good versus evil. I thought

01:23:17.420 --> 01:23:21.420
one one moment that was really interesting. And

01:23:21.420 --> 01:23:22.939
I probably should have written down the exact

01:23:22.939 --> 01:23:25.840
line of dialogue here, but was when the Lily

01:23:25.840 --> 01:23:28.640
Taylor character is first turned into a vampire.

01:23:29.699 --> 01:23:34.279
And the vampire who's about to turn her says

01:23:34.279 --> 01:23:36.680
something to the effect of like, you know, tell

01:23:36.680 --> 01:23:40.619
me to go away or whatever. And I guess that kind

01:23:40.619 --> 01:23:42.720
of relates a little bit to what you were talking

01:23:42.720 --> 01:23:45.220
about just a moment ago, Matt. But it's like,

01:23:45.260 --> 01:23:49.529
you know, she's like saying... i guess i don't

01:23:49.529 --> 01:23:50.970
know exactly what she's saying with it but i

01:23:50.970 --> 01:23:55.390
thought that was really interesting she's she's

01:23:55.390 --> 01:23:59.930
like it kind of almost saying like you know even

01:23:59.930 --> 01:24:01.909
though she's forcing herself from the lily taylor

01:24:01.909 --> 01:24:04.390
character she's kind of saying like you know

01:24:04.390 --> 01:24:07.350
you don't have to do this but i know you want

01:24:07.350 --> 01:24:11.270
to or whatever kind of and i i just thought that

01:24:11.270 --> 01:24:13.579
was interesting i don't i don't know necessarily

01:24:13.579 --> 01:24:15.500
what to say about it because i don't know entirely

01:24:15.500 --> 01:24:17.520
what to make of that but i just thought it was

01:24:17.520 --> 01:24:21.760
a very interesting moment yeah and then kathy

01:24:21.760 --> 01:24:24.260
says that to several of her victims later in

01:24:24.260 --> 01:24:27.180
the movie too and like nobody literally says

01:24:27.180 --> 01:24:30.520
like go away they all seem kind of horrified

01:24:30.520 --> 01:24:33.899
but also like titillated a little bit as well

01:24:33.899 --> 01:24:36.500
you know and like For whatever reason, they don't

01:24:36.500 --> 01:24:40.359
tell these menacing figures to go away. To me,

01:24:40.460 --> 01:24:45.319
I think maybe that's the human fascination with

01:24:45.319 --> 01:24:47.420
the dark side. They can't bring themselves to

01:24:47.420 --> 01:24:49.159
say that. They're like, I want this to happen

01:24:49.159 --> 01:24:52.159
even if I'm terrified to see what happens. That's

01:24:52.159 --> 01:24:55.779
how I read that, anyway. Yeah, I mean, there's

01:24:55.779 --> 01:24:57.760
so much to this movie. I mean, we could also

01:24:57.760 --> 01:24:59.800
talk about like the depiction of social inequality

01:24:59.800 --> 01:25:02.140
in New York and the depiction of the black characters,

01:25:02.199 --> 01:25:04.520
which is maybe slightly questionable in this

01:25:04.520 --> 01:25:08.560
movie. You know, themes of identity. But yeah,

01:25:08.699 --> 01:25:11.380
maybe it's best to kind of just be like explore

01:25:11.380 --> 01:25:13.600
on your own, you know, like there's so much to

01:25:13.600 --> 01:25:15.319
like pick apart and like think about in this

01:25:15.319 --> 01:25:18.479
movie. But yeah, time to break it down. So as

01:25:18.479 --> 01:25:20.600
always, we talk about the good, the bad and the

01:25:20.600 --> 01:25:23.659
campy here on Camp Kaju. I think this movie is

01:25:23.659 --> 01:25:27.239
overwhelmingly good in terms of, well, just about

01:25:27.239 --> 01:25:31.079
everything. Matt, your language of film is creeping

01:25:31.079 --> 01:25:34.680
into my own language here. It is formally very

01:25:34.680 --> 01:25:38.100
good with its camera work and everything. But

01:25:38.100 --> 01:25:44.439
what I'll say is I love it. It's a very modern,

01:25:44.659 --> 01:25:49.760
very 90s movie. And yet there are elements of

01:25:49.760 --> 01:25:54.659
traditional. folk vampire stories in this and

01:25:54.659 --> 01:25:58.420
allusions, I would say, to previous vampire films,

01:25:58.659 --> 01:26:02.000
the universal ones in particular. For example,

01:26:02.159 --> 01:26:07.380
there is a, I think, gorgeous shot of the sun

01:26:07.380 --> 01:26:13.880
setting behind some clouds. And that shot, it

01:26:13.880 --> 01:26:16.520
seems I've seen that shot before, either in the

01:26:16.520 --> 01:26:20.439
Legosi movie. or maybe Coppola's take, but that

01:26:20.439 --> 01:26:26.319
shot was really eye -catching. There's when Kathy

01:26:26.319 --> 01:26:30.079
and her professor go to that cafe. What a wonderfully

01:26:30.079 --> 01:26:34.840
funny scene that was. But there's a folk band

01:26:34.840 --> 01:26:39.579
playing, like Eastern European music, which just

01:26:39.579 --> 01:26:42.239
set the tone. I was like, yes, this is everything,

01:26:42.380 --> 01:26:46.420
that old -timey vampire movie I love. The covering

01:26:46.420 --> 01:26:49.659
the mirrors in Kathy's apartment. It's like a

01:26:49.659 --> 01:26:53.779
subtle vampire lore homage, but there it was.

01:26:54.439 --> 01:26:59.439
And my favorite thing, maybe I'm reading into

01:26:59.439 --> 01:27:02.239
it, but I don't think I am. If you recall the

01:27:02.239 --> 01:27:07.159
movie Dracula's Daughter, 1936, the famous or

01:27:07.159 --> 01:27:09.979
infamous scene of the lesbian seduction in that

01:27:09.979 --> 01:27:16.260
movie, the countess seduces a very young, blonde

01:27:16.260 --> 01:27:19.920
woman baby faced and in and in the addiction

01:27:19.920 --> 01:27:25.399
kathy seduces a very young blonde looking woman

01:27:25.399 --> 01:27:28.439
and brings her to her apartment and just like

01:27:28.439 --> 01:27:31.560
the way it's framed and again blocked and the

01:27:31.560 --> 01:27:35.159
casting choice for the young college girl to

01:27:35.159 --> 01:27:38.600
kind of look the same as this young woman and

01:27:38.600 --> 01:27:42.630
dracula's daughter i just like i I really think

01:27:42.630 --> 01:27:44.670
I know what is happening here. This illusion

01:27:44.670 --> 01:27:47.289
is, I don't know, it's a little treat for those

01:27:47.289 --> 01:27:49.670
who know. So I like that. There's a lot in this

01:27:49.670 --> 01:27:52.630
movie I could go on about, but those are the

01:27:52.630 --> 01:27:55.350
things I wanted to share. I definitely second

01:27:55.350 --> 01:27:58.550
that the look of the movie, I think, was the

01:27:58.550 --> 01:28:01.090
highlight for me. Absolutely beautiful cinematography.

01:28:01.289 --> 01:28:05.680
And I particularly liked the scene of... the

01:28:05.680 --> 01:28:08.359
protagonist being turned into a vampire i mean

01:28:08.359 --> 01:28:10.140
that's that's something of course you see in

01:28:10.140 --> 01:28:13.159
every single vampire movie but i think this might

01:28:13.159 --> 01:28:16.659
have been the best version of that type of scene

01:28:16.659 --> 01:28:19.500
that i've ever seen just the way she gets like

01:28:19.500 --> 01:28:24.199
whipped down so she's taken into this kind of

01:28:24.199 --> 01:28:26.939
like outdoor stairwell thing and the way that

01:28:26.939 --> 01:28:29.600
she's just like whipped down down the stairs

01:28:30.350 --> 01:28:33.689
I can't really do it justice in words, but it's

01:28:33.689 --> 01:28:40.390
so crazy. And then when they're in the stairwell

01:28:40.390 --> 01:28:46.590
thing, there's these lattice -type things that

01:28:46.590 --> 01:28:51.170
are giving them these miniature shafts of light

01:28:51.170 --> 01:28:55.050
all over their faces of both the perpetrator

01:28:55.050 --> 01:28:58.430
and the victim. And it's just so stunning looking.

01:28:59.399 --> 01:29:02.420
And just again, I use the word a couple of times

01:29:02.420 --> 01:29:05.159
here, but very hypnotic scene. I thought that

01:29:05.159 --> 01:29:08.920
that was absolutely incredible. And also just

01:29:08.920 --> 01:29:13.260
just in general, just how it to go also to what

01:29:13.260 --> 01:29:16.640
Vincent was talking about in terms of how the

01:29:16.640 --> 01:29:20.960
movie uses these vampire tropes. But like all

01:29:20.960 --> 01:29:23.840
of these familiar things from vampire lore, but

01:29:23.840 --> 01:29:28.380
it it does them in a different way. I've ever

01:29:28.380 --> 01:29:31.319
seen them done before. It's just a very, very

01:29:31.319 --> 01:29:34.100
distinctive movie, despite being in this very,

01:29:34.220 --> 01:29:38.119
you know, familiar subgenre. Totally agree with

01:29:38.119 --> 01:29:40.760
everything you guys said. Vincent, the scene

01:29:40.760 --> 01:29:42.699
that you brought up with the anthropology students,

01:29:42.800 --> 01:29:44.579
I really love that scene. That's a great connection

01:29:44.579 --> 01:29:46.779
to Dracula's daughter. There's a line that Kathy

01:29:46.779 --> 01:29:49.119
says in that scene where she tells the student

01:29:49.119 --> 01:29:51.739
who she's already attacked, and the student is

01:29:51.739 --> 01:29:55.110
horrified, of course, and Kathy tells her, My

01:29:55.110 --> 01:29:57.210
indifference is not the concern here. It's your

01:29:57.210 --> 01:29:59.810
astonishment that needs studying. And it's just

01:29:59.810 --> 01:30:03.529
such a cold, brutal line. I did not expect that.

01:30:03.670 --> 01:30:05.729
And I could kind of see that being in Dracula's

01:30:05.729 --> 01:30:07.250
Daughter, too, even if it's a little bit more

01:30:07.250 --> 01:30:09.310
emotionally vicious than you might find in that

01:30:09.310 --> 01:30:11.729
movie. But yeah, I agree. That's a really incredible

01:30:11.729 --> 01:30:14.789
scene. Lily Taylor is fantastic in that and throughout

01:30:14.789 --> 01:30:17.170
the whole movie. And yeah, like both of you guys

01:30:17.170 --> 01:30:19.930
said, it's just really gorgeous. Great lighting,

01:30:20.029 --> 01:30:23.600
great shadows. It's weird because it seems kind

01:30:23.600 --> 01:30:26.319
of handheld and that sort of like, you know,

01:30:26.399 --> 01:30:28.600
run and gun style. But at the same time, it's

01:30:28.600 --> 01:30:30.720
very graceful. It feels kind of slow at times

01:30:30.720 --> 01:30:33.319
in the best possible way. It's like a very particular

01:30:33.319 --> 01:30:36.579
mood that I think the movie achieves. And I just

01:30:36.579 --> 01:30:38.960
think, I think there's something interesting

01:30:38.960 --> 01:30:41.220
about pretty much every scene in this movie.

01:30:41.340 --> 01:30:43.539
Like, that's not to say all of them work perfectly,

01:30:43.659 --> 01:30:46.340
but like, whether it's like a shot or a line

01:30:46.340 --> 01:30:49.439
of dialogue or a connection to the characters

01:30:49.439 --> 01:30:53.220
in some way. Yeah, I was never bored for a second,

01:30:53.260 --> 01:30:55.119
and there's just so much going on in this movie,

01:30:55.239 --> 01:30:58.840
thematically, visually. Emotionally, I think,

01:30:58.840 --> 01:31:01.159
because Lily Taylor is so good, I do think you

01:31:01.159 --> 01:31:05.060
do identify with her and relate to what she's

01:31:05.060 --> 01:31:07.220
going through a little bit. Maybe not relate

01:31:07.220 --> 01:31:10.939
to, but empathize with. Yeah, it's a really fascinating

01:31:10.939 --> 01:31:14.699
movie, and I think, as often happens with messy,

01:31:14.859 --> 01:31:16.779
imperfect movies, that just kind of makes them

01:31:16.779 --> 01:31:19.029
more interesting, in my opinion. I don't know

01:31:19.029 --> 01:31:21.270
how messy it is, though. I think this movie is

01:31:21.270 --> 01:31:24.829
tight in its construction. No, yeah, like a brief

01:31:24.829 --> 01:31:27.329
82 minutes, which is, you know, and everything

01:31:27.329 --> 01:31:29.449
this movie does in that brief running time is

01:31:29.449 --> 01:31:33.050
very impressive. Maybe we'll flip it around and

01:31:33.050 --> 01:31:34.949
I can start with the bad stuff and then turn

01:31:34.949 --> 01:31:39.130
it over to you guys. I do agree that the footage

01:31:39.130 --> 01:31:41.770
of real world atrocities does seem kind of like

01:31:41.770 --> 01:31:46.640
loosely connected at best. And maybe... it's

01:31:46.640 --> 01:31:48.739
interesting but i think maybe just overplayed

01:31:48.739 --> 01:31:51.619
a little bit yeah yeah for me a lot of that stuff

01:31:51.619 --> 01:31:55.539
you're talking about felt extraneous and and

01:31:55.539 --> 01:31:58.939
also the stuff about the the redemption toward

01:31:58.939 --> 01:32:02.479
the end felt very like tacked out to me like

01:32:02.479 --> 01:32:04.600
they had these interesting ideas but they didn't

01:32:04.600 --> 01:32:10.560
really think them through or yeah it just it

01:32:10.560 --> 01:32:13.159
it seems like In some ways, I think the movie

01:32:13.159 --> 01:32:16.539
is kind of less than the sum of its parts. But

01:32:16.539 --> 01:32:20.560
yeah, it's never less than interesting. Maybe

01:32:20.560 --> 01:32:25.359
I zoned out for just a second, but the Christopher

01:32:25.359 --> 01:32:28.500
Walken scene didn't bother me. I liked that scene,

01:32:28.760 --> 01:32:32.260
but I think I lost the plot a little bit when

01:32:32.260 --> 01:32:36.039
it appeared like he was keeping her there captive,

01:32:36.340 --> 01:32:39.199
like he was feeding on her and she was on the

01:32:39.199 --> 01:32:43.479
floor. He was teaching her a lesson. And I don't

01:32:43.479 --> 01:32:45.720
know why I just thought this movie was going

01:32:45.720 --> 01:32:48.760
to be the rest of the runtime her locked in his

01:32:48.760 --> 01:32:52.340
house and him feeding on her. So I didn't track

01:32:52.340 --> 01:32:55.159
how she eventually got away, why she got away.

01:32:55.880 --> 01:32:59.060
So I don't know if that was me or the film. I

01:32:59.060 --> 01:33:02.800
can't say. I think that's fair. And I think,

01:33:02.800 --> 01:33:05.079
in fact, he drinks so much of her blood that

01:33:05.079 --> 01:33:08.220
she tries to slit her wrist to drink her own

01:33:08.220 --> 01:33:11.340
blood, but she's unable to do so. yeah that was

01:33:11.340 --> 01:33:15.659
right yeah yeah so that yeah but it is a strange

01:33:15.659 --> 01:33:17.899
scene for sure because like yeah christopher

01:33:17.899 --> 01:33:20.819
walken does say like i've learned to control

01:33:20.819 --> 01:33:23.119
my cravings i can go decades without feeding

01:33:23.119 --> 01:33:25.340
and like he's trying to fit in as a human being

01:33:25.340 --> 01:33:28.020
so it seems like maybe he's trying to like teach

01:33:28.020 --> 01:33:30.520
her a lesson or something by feeding on her which

01:33:30.520 --> 01:33:33.239
perhaps is slightly confusing And then she like,

01:33:33.279 --> 01:33:35.420
I was also surprised that she just like leaves

01:33:35.420 --> 01:33:37.840
his apartment. Like one moment she's kind of

01:33:37.840 --> 01:33:39.619
writhing on the ground and the next shot she's

01:33:39.619 --> 01:33:42.680
walking on the sidewalk outside. So it's, yeah,

01:33:42.739 --> 01:33:45.600
it's confusing. And I don't know exactly what

01:33:45.600 --> 01:33:48.340
that scene is trying to get at, but like so much

01:33:48.340 --> 01:33:50.220
in this movie, I'm like, I like it. Even if I

01:33:50.220 --> 01:33:52.779
don't totally understand it. Yeah. Yeah. I think

01:33:52.779 --> 01:33:55.880
a lot of what works in his part is that it is

01:33:55.880 --> 01:33:58.779
so disorienting though. Cause he's such a, and

01:33:58.779 --> 01:34:03.260
it, you know, he's like, probably of all famous

01:34:03.260 --> 01:34:07.439
actors, the one who's most notoriously like just

01:34:07.439 --> 01:34:10.039
kind of an alien presence, you know, where you

01:34:10.039 --> 01:34:12.859
don't really know what the hell's going on with

01:34:12.859 --> 01:34:15.020
them, regardless of what type of role he's playing.

01:34:15.140 --> 01:34:18.279
And he's got that weird, like stilted diction

01:34:18.279 --> 01:34:21.380
and everything. And I thought it was a very effective

01:34:21.380 --> 01:34:25.159
use of him, but yeah, I guess the idea maybe

01:34:25.159 --> 01:34:28.779
is supposed to be that he's a, he's like this

01:34:28.779 --> 01:34:32.119
guy who's trying. maybe to tell himself that

01:34:32.119 --> 01:34:35.619
he's overcoming the vampire thing, or maybe trying

01:34:35.619 --> 01:34:37.760
to convince others that he is, but maybe he's

01:34:37.760 --> 01:34:43.899
just kind of a charlatan. And, you know, he still

01:34:43.899 --> 01:34:47.300
is, in fact, just as much of a blood addict as

01:34:47.300 --> 01:34:50.000
the rest of the vampires or something. I don't

01:34:50.000 --> 01:34:53.039
know. I like that. I thought that scene brought

01:34:53.039 --> 01:34:56.100
an interesting, just an interesting different

01:34:56.100 --> 01:34:58.739
energy to the movie that it doesn't have in other

01:34:58.739 --> 01:35:04.560
moments. Yeah. I like that scene too. Just the

01:35:04.560 --> 01:35:08.100
transition out of it. Yeah, it does kind of just

01:35:08.100 --> 01:35:11.779
end and then he never comes back. They could

01:35:11.779 --> 01:35:16.100
only afford him for an eight hour shoot. You

01:35:16.100 --> 01:35:19.079
could tell. It's like, oh wow. He's the top filled

01:35:19.079 --> 01:35:22.300
actor. Yeah, this deferred payment is not going

01:35:22.300 --> 01:35:24.579
to work for me. I kept waiting for Christopher

01:35:24.579 --> 01:35:28.409
Walken in this movie and then he shows up. That's

01:35:28.409 --> 01:35:32.430
it. One and done. Yeah, it really is like a cameo,

01:35:32.430 --> 01:35:34.510
like Frank said, but like really fascinating,

01:35:34.630 --> 01:35:38.029
bizarre cameo. They also shot that scene in Julian

01:35:38.029 --> 01:35:40.270
Schnabel's loft, which I thought was kind of

01:35:40.270 --> 01:35:42.729
interesting. He like let them film there, which

01:35:42.729 --> 01:35:44.869
is cool. That's a cool set. Like the paintings

01:35:44.869 --> 01:35:48.069
and like the sort of elegant, but like frightening

01:35:48.069 --> 01:35:50.130
decor or whatever. There's a lot about that scene

01:35:50.130 --> 01:35:53.689
that I like a lot. Yeah. Sorry, Vincent, did

01:35:53.689 --> 01:35:55.109
you have anything else in your bad category?

01:35:55.729 --> 01:35:59.699
I did not. Okay. I feel like this movie is remarkable

01:35:59.699 --> 01:36:03.239
for how not campy it is, but maybe there are

01:36:03.239 --> 01:36:05.619
certain elements. Anything you guys want to mention?

01:36:06.300 --> 01:36:09.659
I just found it funny that the first, maybe the

01:36:09.659 --> 01:36:14.060
only bit of true comedy, and it's still so underplayed,

01:36:14.060 --> 01:36:18.399
is when Kathy goes out with her professor and

01:36:18.399 --> 01:36:22.020
they're having a really awkward time. He is.

01:36:22.699 --> 01:36:25.840
It's like she doesn't want to study. And then

01:36:25.840 --> 01:36:29.060
she lures him into her apartment. And he says,

01:36:29.220 --> 01:36:32.420
I wrote it down. You know, it hasn't been the

01:36:32.420 --> 01:36:36.819
most enjoyable evening. Yeah. But he's a man.

01:36:36.920 --> 01:36:39.819
So he goes in to sleep with her and gets turned

01:36:39.819 --> 01:36:44.359
into a vampire. I like that line, too. And I

01:36:44.359 --> 01:36:46.500
also loved it right before then in that same

01:36:46.500 --> 01:36:49.220
scene where they're sitting awkwardly in that

01:36:49.220 --> 01:36:52.840
nightclub very silently. After a while, he's

01:36:52.840 --> 01:36:54.640
like, you haven't said a single word all night.

01:36:54.779 --> 01:36:56.699
And then she goes off on this philosophical rant

01:36:56.699 --> 01:36:59.140
about how there are two types of silence. I thought

01:36:59.140 --> 01:37:03.079
that was really funny. Yeah, the only thing I

01:37:03.079 --> 01:37:04.840
can think of in terms of campiness is I thought

01:37:04.840 --> 01:37:08.300
the song that played over the opening credits

01:37:08.300 --> 01:37:10.899
was terrible. I was like, oh man, it could be

01:37:10.899 --> 01:37:17.100
a really bad movie. Just a really cheap sounding...

01:37:17.100 --> 01:37:19.960
Even the recording quality of it was just not

01:37:19.960 --> 01:37:26.199
very good. how did this make the cut yeah i'm

01:37:26.199 --> 01:37:27.720
glad you brought that up because that yeah that's

01:37:27.720 --> 01:37:30.100
a terrible song and like it does not fit the

01:37:30.100 --> 01:37:32.220
rest of the movie it's so it was like the hip

01:37:32.220 --> 01:37:35.460
-hop song right well it's kind of more like a

01:37:35.460 --> 01:37:40.119
bluesy song i think it's that joe delia guy but

01:37:40.119 --> 01:37:42.819
yeah it's just i don't remember exactly how it

01:37:42.819 --> 01:37:47.960
goes but it's just it's just like addiction oh

01:37:47.960 --> 01:37:51.960
yeah yeah yeah it's just it's like really bad

01:37:51.960 --> 01:37:56.159
like yeah i don't have anything interesting to

01:37:56.159 --> 01:37:58.039
say about it but it was just a terrible song

01:37:58.039 --> 01:38:01.739
well sure it's like we get it ferrara it's the

01:38:01.739 --> 01:38:08.159
addiction we get it yeah it's more like r &b

01:38:08.159 --> 01:38:11.680
vibes than hip -hop i would say uh no that the

01:38:11.680 --> 01:38:13.699
end credits there's there's like a rap song that's

01:38:13.699 --> 01:38:18.659
playing oh yeah it's the n -word a lot yeah really

01:38:18.659 --> 01:38:21.500
bizarre that russell simmons was a producer on

01:38:21.500 --> 01:38:24.520
this movie that just seems like utterly random

01:38:24.520 --> 01:38:26.800
to me i know there's like a handful of hip -hop

01:38:26.800 --> 01:38:29.880
songs in the soundtrack and everything but there's

01:38:29.880 --> 01:38:33.640
nothing about this movie that says deaf jan right

01:38:33.640 --> 01:38:37.840
really bizarre yeah and i think russell simmons

01:38:37.840 --> 01:38:39.819
is the first name you see in the credits like

01:38:39.819 --> 01:38:42.119
russell simmons presents or something like that

01:38:42.119 --> 01:38:44.930
yeah yeah I was hoping I could find more information

01:38:44.930 --> 01:38:47.710
about like a weird collaboration between Abel

01:38:47.710 --> 01:38:50.170
Ferrara and Russell Simmons, but I think he was

01:38:50.170 --> 01:38:52.250
just the money man kind of, you know, but not

01:38:52.250 --> 01:38:56.270
very much money in this case. Yeah. Yeah. And

01:38:56.270 --> 01:38:58.329
like, I don't think I really have anything campy,

01:38:58.329 --> 01:39:00.930
but I do like some of the, I don't know, very

01:39:00.930 --> 01:39:03.409
wordy dialogue in this movie. It's like kind

01:39:03.409 --> 01:39:05.670
of funny to me at times. Like when she describes

01:39:05.670 --> 01:39:08.710
philosophy as adversity's sweet milk, I thought

01:39:08.710 --> 01:39:11.010
that was funny. And then there's another line

01:39:11.010 --> 01:39:14.090
where she says this obtuseness, it's disheartening.

01:39:14.489 --> 01:39:17.550
So just lines like that. I mean, again, I don't

01:39:17.550 --> 01:39:19.130
really like the word pretentious too much because

01:39:19.130 --> 01:39:21.649
I feel like people say it like to avoid thinking

01:39:21.649 --> 01:39:24.449
about weird things in movies, but, but some of

01:39:24.449 --> 01:39:26.090
the weird pretentious dialogue in this movie

01:39:26.090 --> 01:39:28.229
is enjoyable. That's not really a criticism.

01:39:28.369 --> 01:39:31.430
I just, I like how wordy this movie is, you know?

01:39:32.250 --> 01:39:34.229
Yeah. It reminds me of a line of dialogue and

01:39:34.229 --> 01:39:37.949
I think it's Melinda and Melinda by Woody Allen,

01:39:38.050 --> 01:39:40.500
where somebody, somebody is like getting angry

01:39:40.500 --> 01:39:43.340
at someone and they about like a lie they told

01:39:43.340 --> 01:39:46.579
or whatever and they say that you know this is

01:39:46.579 --> 01:39:50.319
a baseless canard and it's like okay did the

01:39:50.319 --> 01:39:52.659
person who write that write this like ever talk

01:39:52.659 --> 01:39:55.899
to a human being yeah it's like nobody would

01:39:55.899 --> 01:40:00.659
ever just say that this movie pulls that off

01:40:00.659 --> 01:40:03.239
better than melinda and melinda did maybe yeah

01:40:03.239 --> 01:40:06.619
weird comparison i know Alright, well perhaps

01:40:06.619 --> 01:40:09.560
we are at the time of our episode where we give

01:40:09.560 --> 01:40:12.560
the film a rating. As always on Camp Kaiju, we

01:40:12.560 --> 01:40:15.340
have four ratings. Our highest rating is it is

01:40:15.340 --> 01:40:17.819
a timeless classic. It definitely stands the

01:40:17.819 --> 01:40:20.979
test of time. Number two, there may be some antiquated

01:40:20.979 --> 01:40:23.159
moments, but overall it's great. It stands the

01:40:23.159 --> 01:40:26.039
test of time. Number three, it may be historically

01:40:26.039 --> 01:40:28.279
significant or just fun, but it does not stand

01:40:28.279 --> 01:40:30.619
the test of time. And our lowest rating, it is

01:40:30.619 --> 01:40:32.739
not worth revisiting. It definitely does not

01:40:32.739 --> 01:40:36.279
stand the test of time. Maybe I'll throw it out

01:40:36.279 --> 01:40:38.260
to you guys partially because I don't totally

01:40:38.260 --> 01:40:39.800
know what my rating is yet. So I want to hear

01:40:39.800 --> 01:40:42.659
what you say first. Okay. Frank, you want to

01:40:42.659 --> 01:40:45.819
go first? Sure. I'll say I'll, I'll go with the,

01:40:45.899 --> 01:40:48.239
there may be some antiquated moments, but overall

01:40:48.239 --> 01:40:51.359
it's great and stands the test of time. You know,

01:40:51.380 --> 01:40:53.020
like we were talking about, I think there's some

01:40:53.020 --> 01:40:55.739
moments where it doesn't totally come together

01:40:55.739 --> 01:40:59.100
or cohere, especially when it's kind of reaching

01:40:59.100 --> 01:41:01.319
for some of these bigger themes that I think

01:41:01.319 --> 01:41:04.140
are a little bit out of its grasp maybe, but

01:41:04.140 --> 01:41:09.710
it's, highly distinctive you know very beautiful

01:41:09.710 --> 01:41:13.970
and and powerful in some ways and it has a handful

01:41:13.970 --> 01:41:18.149
of of really fantastic scenes in it so i would

01:41:18.149 --> 01:41:20.750
say definitely worth checking out for anybody

01:41:20.750 --> 01:41:23.970
who likes definitely anybody who likes vampire

01:41:23.970 --> 01:41:27.590
stuff or who likes horror movies in general and

01:41:27.590 --> 01:41:30.050
especially horror movies on the more offbeat

01:41:30.050 --> 01:41:34.680
end and And probably anyone who just likes kind

01:41:34.680 --> 01:41:37.600
of artsy movies as well, even if you're not particularly

01:41:37.600 --> 01:41:40.159
a horror fan, although I'm sure anyone listening

01:41:40.159 --> 01:41:43.539
to this is a horror fan. But yeah, definitely

01:41:43.539 --> 01:41:47.020
well worth checking out and a very, very interesting

01:41:47.020 --> 01:41:51.359
movie. Awesome. Yeah, I like everything you just

01:41:51.359 --> 01:41:54.960
said. I will bump it up a titch higher to a timeless

01:41:54.960 --> 01:41:57.880
classic. And I say that because it's clearly

01:41:57.880 --> 01:42:04.399
underrated. Because it's so underseen, I would

01:42:04.399 --> 01:42:08.279
recommend this to anybody. But I would say it's

01:42:08.279 --> 01:42:12.220
not an easy movie to watch at times. The close

01:42:12.220 --> 01:42:16.479
-up of the needle in the professor's arm, that

01:42:16.479 --> 01:42:21.779
was real and uncomfortable to watch. But it's

01:42:21.779 --> 01:42:25.819
such an arresting image, and this movie is full

01:42:25.819 --> 01:42:30.220
of shots like that, in addition to the character

01:42:30.220 --> 01:42:34.479
arcs. and the multitude of themes that you could

01:42:34.479 --> 01:42:36.340
dig into. You could watch this movie a thousand

01:42:36.340 --> 01:42:39.899
times and pick up on different things. So yeah,

01:42:40.060 --> 01:42:41.920
I mean, there are some little qualms, but overall

01:42:41.920 --> 01:42:45.779
I found myself riveted by what I was watching.

01:42:47.239 --> 01:42:49.579
Nice. I love it. Those were the two ratings that

01:42:49.579 --> 01:42:51.380
I was gravitating between. So I don't know if

01:42:51.380 --> 01:42:54.140
I think I've been convinced I'm going to bump

01:42:54.140 --> 01:42:57.340
it up to our highest rating. It definitely stands,

01:42:57.460 --> 01:42:59.319
well, you know, I think it stands the test of

01:42:59.319 --> 01:43:01.239
time. I'm excited to watch this movie again at

01:43:01.239 --> 01:43:02.939
some point because, Vincent, like you said, I

01:43:02.939 --> 01:43:05.239
feel like you can watch it many, many times and

01:43:05.239 --> 01:43:06.920
come away with different takeaways each time.

01:43:07.859 --> 01:43:11.060
Certainly not all of it works. You know, it's,

01:43:11.060 --> 01:43:13.159
yeah, Frank, I agree with what you said, that

01:43:13.159 --> 01:43:15.600
sometimes it seems to be like... fumbling for

01:43:15.600 --> 01:43:18.000
big profound themes that maybe are not very carefully

01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:21.420
conveyed but uh i just really admire this movie

01:43:21.420 --> 01:43:24.579
i love how beautiful it is first of all all the

01:43:24.579 --> 01:43:26.500
ideas it has on its mind what it does with the

01:43:26.500 --> 01:43:30.020
vampire subgenre um i really loved it so i think

01:43:30.020 --> 01:43:32.359
despite a few reservations i'll have to give

01:43:32.359 --> 01:43:35.680
it our highest rating cool i what a great conversation

01:43:35.680 --> 01:43:38.180
frank thank you so much for joining us tonight

01:43:38.180 --> 01:43:41.060
for this interesting movie i hope you uh had

01:43:41.060 --> 01:43:43.590
fun tonight Yeah. Thank you for having me. And

01:43:43.590 --> 01:43:45.550
I'm glad that you recommended this one. Cause

01:43:45.550 --> 01:43:47.890
yeah, it's one of those movies I like sort of

01:43:47.890 --> 01:43:50.090
always wanted to see, but you know, there's never

01:43:50.090 --> 01:43:51.810
really toward the top of my list or whatever,

01:43:51.869 --> 01:43:54.489
but I'm really glad to have checked it out. Very

01:43:54.489 --> 01:43:56.829
interesting and always fun to talk with you guys.

01:43:57.869 --> 01:44:01.289
Yeah, likewise, man. Thanks for always coming

01:44:01.289 --> 01:44:04.869
on. Hope to see you again in a few weeks. Cool.

01:44:05.829 --> 01:44:07.689
Like Vincent said, always a pleasure to have

01:44:07.689 --> 01:44:11.130
you on. Frank, thank you. Again, our next episode

01:44:11.130 --> 01:44:13.890
will be Pacific Rim and then our holiday special

01:44:13.890 --> 01:44:18.010
where I'll wear my Grinch costume. Thanks for

01:44:18.010 --> 01:44:19.750
hanging out with us, friends. Please rate and

01:44:19.750 --> 01:44:22.289
review the show and follow us on Patreon .com

01:44:22.289 --> 01:44:24.789
slash Camp Kaiju for additional videos, reviews,

01:44:24.949 --> 01:44:27.699
merchandise, and more. Other ways to get in touch,

01:44:27.880 --> 01:44:31.279
email at campkaiju at gmail .com, our website,

01:44:31.479 --> 01:44:36.039
campkaijupodcast .com, on Instagram, or our voicemail

01:44:36.039 --> 01:44:41.420
number is 612 -470 -2612. Camp Kaiju is recorded

01:44:41.420 --> 01:44:43.500
in Minneapolis, St. Paul, with Minya's Mailbox

01:44:43.500 --> 01:44:46.739
music by Ben Cook -Felts. Thanks, friends, and

01:44:46.739 --> 01:44:50.020
until next time, stay campy. Cam Kaiju is brought

01:44:50.020 --> 01:44:52.180
to you by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack, powered

01:44:52.180 --> 01:44:54.920
by Coldwell Banker Realty. Whether you're looking

01:44:54.920 --> 01:44:57.359
for your dream home, a savvy investment property,

01:44:57.899 --> 01:45:00.539
or expert guidance in home rehab and flipping,

01:45:00.739 --> 01:45:03.460
the Zach Pack has you covered. Don't forget to

01:45:03.460 --> 01:45:05.579
follow the Zach Pack on social media for the

01:45:05.579 --> 01:45:12.720
latest updates and insights. You can't eat. You

01:45:12.720 --> 01:45:16.350
can't sleep. You can't even go out. To satisfy

01:45:16.350 --> 01:45:19.170
the urge during the day. You are a slave to what

01:45:19.170 --> 01:45:22.750
you are, and you're nothing. I defecate. When's

01:45:22.750 --> 01:45:25.890
the last time you did that? I'm almost human.

01:45:25.970 --> 01:45:29.449
I eat, I sleep, I have a job. I can diet. Took

01:45:29.449 --> 01:45:32.170
a long time. You think you know what we are.

01:45:32.750 --> 01:45:34.390
The point is to blend in.