WEBVTT

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Feast your eyes, glut your soul on my accursed

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ugliness. I remember that one. Legendary line.

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Just so imaginative. I can't remember if it's

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like an intertitle or a note that he gives, but

00:00:17.949 --> 00:00:21.390
the Phantom says, No longer like a toad in these

00:00:21.390 --> 00:00:24.550
foul cellars will I secrete the venom of hatred,

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for you shall bring me love. Oh, my God. Love

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that line. Hello and welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster

00:00:48.369 --> 00:00:51.390
Movie Podcast. We're your hosts, Vincent Manum

00:00:51.390 --> 00:00:54.780
and Matt Levine. And we're talking about all

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our favorite monster movies, the good, the bad,

00:00:57.340 --> 00:01:00.380
and the downright campy, and asking if they stand

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the test of time. Traditional kaiju, creature

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features, space invaders, the supernatural, and

00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:09.099
everything in between. All strange beasts welcome

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here. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zack Linder

00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:15.260
and the Zack Pack, powered by Coldwell Banker

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Realty. your source for real estate, home rehab,

00:01:18.140 --> 00:01:20.359
fixing and flipping for investor clients and

00:01:20.359 --> 00:01:22.859
residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach Pack

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today for real estate services, follow the Zach

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Pack on social media, and contact the Zach Pack

00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:31.579
for investment opportunities. Link in those show

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notes. Behind the cavernous walls of this great

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opera house, behind the gaiety and make -believe,

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Lies terror. Unspeakable terror. Who was this

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phantom plotting and scheming behind so grotesque

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a mask? The thundering organ, his throne of doom.

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The empty theater, his altar of death. Christine!

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Why did he torment and torture the opera's brightest

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stars? What evil fascination did beauty hold

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for this beast? And Matt, we have a very special

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third guest with us tonight. We do. Welcome Paul

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McGuire Grimes. Thank you so much for joining

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us tonight. Thanks for having me for the Phantom

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of the Opera. Should I have revealed the title

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this early? Yeah, for sure. We'll put like an

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orchestral sting behind that maybe in the actual

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episode. Organ only. Let's find some good organ

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music and pump that in there. Of course. Yeah.

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It's the 100 -year anniversary of The Phantom

00:03:20.939 --> 00:03:24.300
of the Opera. It is. And I just saw on Instagram,

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and I sent this to Vincent, that it's going to

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be back up on the big screen in a ton of cities.

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So people are like, I've never seen that. I don't

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have access to it. Go see it on the big screen.

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Yeah, with a live accompaniment, too. Yeah. The

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best way to see a silent movie. Absolutely. If

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anyone's in Minnesota, like go to the, I don't

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know if it's playing at the Heights, but like

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the Heights theater is like the best in town

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for that kind of old standard feel. They have

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a full organ on display that they play before

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their movies. And it's such a treat. Paul, why,

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why have we summoned you? Yeah, tell us about

00:03:58.580 --> 00:04:01.139
yourself. Yeah, so I'm a Minneapolis -based film

00:04:01.139 --> 00:04:03.919
critic and entertainment reporter. I'm a member

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of the Critics' Choice Association. I'm a part

00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:08.740
of the Minneapolis Film Critics Alliance. You

00:04:08.740 --> 00:04:10.879
can find me on Rotten Tomatoes. I'm also, you

00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:13.900
can, I do media appearances on KSTP, on Twin

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Cities Live. I'm also on Fox 9 Good Day. Also

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on My Talk 1071. And I'm also an Imagine, I'm

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an ambassador for Imagine Theaters. And I'm in

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their like pre -movie Welcome to Imagine video

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and do a lot of social media for them. some of

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my interviews get shared on their social media

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sites and yeah, I'm all around town. Now on the

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airwaves. Yes. But thank you for being here.

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We'll put, thank you for having me. Yeah. We'll

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have all the links to your goings ons in the

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show notes for listeners to check you out. Follow

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everyone. Follow Paul on Instagram, on other

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socials. Yeah. This is going to be a good evening.

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Okay, great. Sometimes we start an episode and

00:05:01.899 --> 00:05:03.160
we're like, yeah, I don't know how well this

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episode is going to go. But tonight we're like,

00:05:05.019 --> 00:05:06.740
this is going to be great. We can feel it. God,

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pressure's on. Pressure's on. Here we go. Yeah,

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we can play some Angeloid Weber behind it. Just

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really get in the spirit. Yeah. Just watch out

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for any chandeliers. Don't walk under one. Absolutely.

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Be careful. Well, let's get into some quick nuts

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and bolts. Thank you for hanging out, all our

00:05:26.139 --> 00:05:28.579
listeners out there. Rate and review wherever

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you listen. You can also send us listener comments

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at campkaiju at gmail .com. Follow us on Instagram

00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:38.579
and also leave us some comments there at camp

00:05:38.579 --> 00:05:41.939
underscore kaiju underscore podcast. If you'd

00:05:41.939 --> 00:05:43.560
even like to be a featured voice on the show,

00:05:43.639 --> 00:05:46.360
you can do that by leaving a voicemail at 612

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-470 -2612. Just tell us about your favorite

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monster movies, your fear of chandeliers, and

00:05:53.110 --> 00:05:55.370
all your other monster movie memories. Check

00:05:55.370 --> 00:05:57.889
out our website, campkaijupodcast .com, for more

00:05:57.889 --> 00:06:01.490
reviews and content. And if you really want some

00:06:01.490 --> 00:06:05.029
inside backstage passes to the opera house, so

00:06:05.029 --> 00:06:09.110
to speak, become a Patreon patron member at patreon

00:06:09.110 --> 00:06:12.290
.com slash campkaiju. You can get discounts on

00:06:12.290 --> 00:06:15.649
our Threadless store, priority comments, any

00:06:15.649 --> 00:06:19.129
live events we got going on. And just generally

00:06:19.129 --> 00:06:22.589
more communication from me and Matt. Because

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we love our patrons. And we're going to thank

00:06:25.069 --> 00:06:29.110
you all right now. Jason, B. Struhl, Chris B.,

00:06:29.110 --> 00:06:32.769
Sean, our anonymous patron, and Peggy. Couldn't

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do it without you. Thank you so much. And I would

00:06:35.490 --> 00:06:37.589
love it if those Patreon members came over to

00:06:37.589 --> 00:06:39.449
my Patreon and followed me over there as well.

00:06:39.589 --> 00:06:41.949
Paul's trip to the movies on Patreon. It's brand

00:06:41.949 --> 00:06:45.509
new. So starting the Patreon voyage. Nice. Good

00:06:45.509 --> 00:06:50.079
luck. Thank you. Teach me your ways. Paul, we

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always like to feature this month in monster

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movie history. So on the notes, there's a long

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list of some titles released in October. Each

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of us, we like to pick just one to geek out over

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and highlight for a little monster movie history.

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Any titles screaming at you? Well, I mean, literally

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so many of them from Night of the Living Dead,

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which is iconic, classic, groundbreaking. Little

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known fact, my husband directed a musical version

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of Night of the Living Dead that premiered here

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a couple years ago, and it was a lot of fun,

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and it was great. But I love Night of the Living

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Dead. Nightmare Before Christmas, obviously a

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classic. That Danny Elfman score, I obsess over

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film scores, and that Danny Elfman one is...

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can we say underrated i mean a lot of people

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know it but i just see like in that pantheon

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of danny elfman is so good that's great bed knobs

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and broomsticks angela lansbury give me angela

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every day all night long so yeah those are my

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picks you took bed knobs and broomsticks from

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me i grew up well now tell me why you love it

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this isn't just we all can pick bed knobs and

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broomsticks that's true Surprise Bedknobs and

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Broomsticks episode, everybody. Absolutely. No,

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I haven't seen it since I was a kid. Same. I'm

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going to say that's probably more than 20 years

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now. But since I've started this podcast, I've

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thought about that movie in particular. Angela

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Lansbury, just the best witch you could watch,

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enjoy as a child. And then the animation, I'm

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just curious, does that hold up, the blend of

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animation with live action? I remember it being

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kind of weird as a kid. Like, at the end, all

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the suits of armor come to life, and there's,

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like, a German World War I plot going on. That's

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weird. In terms of animation, I would say that

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it probably does, because I've watched Mary Poppins.

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I mean, it's the same as Mary Poppins. Like,

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it's that same type of style. And that still

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holds up, in my opinion, and it's still magical

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and still takes you back to why you love that

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movie in the first place. I love Mary Poppins.

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And after my daughter was born, like... It's

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not like she can really watch it, but it was

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lovely to have her in the background and sing

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those songs to her. Nice. Bedknobs and Broomsticks

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will have to be next on her watch list. Absolutely.

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I'm going to share in the Bedknobs and Broomsticks

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love as well. That played a huge role in my childhood.

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My parents would like, they had like crates and

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boxes of like old VHS, like blank VHS tapes.

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And they would just like record any movie that

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was playing on TV that was like appropriate for

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kids on there. And Bedknobs and Broomsticks was

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the one that I would just watch on repeat. I'm

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sure that like VHS tape is just like mangled

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beyond repair by now. But I watched it all the

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time when I was a kid. And with the animation,

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like I miss movies that combine live action and

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animation and Mary Poppins does that too. It's

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just a style you don't really see all that much

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anymore. And it's such a whimsical, like fantastic

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visual style. I wish, you know, somebody should

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bring that back because it's just so magical,

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you know? They did a bit of that with Mary Poppins

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Returns, the Emily Blunt, Lin -Manuel Miranda,

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like new take on Mary Poppins. And I thought

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it worked well just to kind of honor the original.

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And yeah, I wish they would do it again. Yeah.

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I think Disney's Wish was in 2D, if I remember

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correctly. And then people panned it because

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they were like, oh, it looks so dated. It doesn't

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look good. I'm like, that was the point. It's

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the 100th anniversary movie. Get over yourselves

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already and just be nostalgic. I don't know.

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Yeah. Dated is kind of a good thing sometimes,

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I think. Yeah. What is coming up? New horror

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releases, monster movie releases. Paul, you're

00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:43.360
the guy to give us the inside scoop. What's on

00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:47.009
your radar? What's on my radar? There's a few

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movies on my radar. Some are monsters, some are

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not. But we'll start with the monster -y one

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first. It's Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein,

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which I'm very excited about. Love a lot of his

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movies. This is right up his alley. I mean, it

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just looks... tailor -made for him and he will

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make it with his true vision which i'm very much

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looking forward to there's that and then other

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just movies coming out that i'm excited for is

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wicked for good i love wicked and i love act

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two of wicked which is what this movie is so

00:11:16.970 --> 00:11:20.899
i just cannot Wait. Some of my favorite music

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from the musical is in Act Two, which is in For

00:11:22.980 --> 00:11:25.720
Good. And I'm just like losing my mind over it.

00:11:25.860 --> 00:11:28.820
So that's exciting. Ham Nets from Chloe Zhao.

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I love Shakespeare and Hamlet. And this is like

00:11:32.500 --> 00:11:35.620
going into what that story is a bit. And I just

00:11:35.620 --> 00:11:37.539
think that it's getting rave reviews from the

00:11:37.539 --> 00:11:39.100
people that have seen it. It's the opening night

00:11:39.100 --> 00:11:40.919
film at the Twin Cities Film Festival. So I'm

00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:43.019
looking forward to that. And then there's a movie

00:11:43.019 --> 00:11:44.919
coming out around Christmas called Is This Thing

00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:48.500
On? Written by Will Arnett and Bradley Cooper.

00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:51.120
directed by Bradley Cooper about a guy going

00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:53.720
into standup comedy in the wake of his divorce.

00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:57.840
And I think it looks excellent and looks like,

00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:00.039
you know, is this a great career move? Is he

00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:02.379
having this midlife crisis? Will Arnett is great.

00:12:02.419 --> 00:12:04.139
I love Bradley Cooper's movies as a writer and

00:12:04.139 --> 00:12:08.440
director. So I'm, I'm all in. Yeah. And Laura

00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:10.840
Dern. I mean, Queen Laura Dern is in it. So like,

00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:14.340
of course I'll be there. Oh man. Are you, you

00:12:14.340 --> 00:12:16.000
don't have to answer, I guess, but like, are

00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:17.799
you? Are you going to interview any of these

00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:21.240
folks? I don't think I'm getting Frankenstein

00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:22.519
because I already did interviews for that and

00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:25.000
I didn't get it. Crossing my fingers for Wicked

00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:27.200
for good. I interviewed Michelle Yeoh for the

00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:29.799
first Wicked. So hopefully I'll get something

00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:32.340
for the new one. I would love to get Hamnet.

00:12:32.419 --> 00:12:34.899
I would love to get Is This Thing On? I do sometimes

00:12:34.899 --> 00:12:36.860
get search likes. I think they're doing Is This

00:12:36.860 --> 00:12:38.600
Thing On? So I would hope to get something for

00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:41.139
that. But I mean, we'll see. The industry is

00:12:41.139 --> 00:12:44.220
really changing right now with... who gets interviews

00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:47.360
who gets to do press junkets who gets access

00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:49.860
to things and that's we don't need to go into

00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:51.620
it it's too long of a conversation for this but

00:12:51.620 --> 00:12:53.399
yeah it's the industry is really changing with

00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:57.960
that so we'll see yeah i yeah if this was another

00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:00.659
podcast or just getting some coffee i would love

00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:04.940
to yeah yeah learn about that yeah a couple days

00:13:04.940 --> 00:13:07.799
ago i watched matango directed by ashiro honda

00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:09.519
who we've talked about so much on the podcast

00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:13.799
and matango is amazing i loved it it's like so

00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:16.679
different from godzilla and many of his other

00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:19.080
kaiju movies it is a monster movie it's kind

00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:21.779
of about like a strain of mutated fungus and

00:13:21.779 --> 00:13:23.639
it has like a lot of the same themes of like

00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:25.820
you know the atomic bombings of hiroshima and

00:13:25.820 --> 00:13:28.840
nagasaki as well as just like class consciousness

00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.120
and things like that but it's a little bit darker

00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:33.240
and more foreboding and surreal than a lot of

00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:34.879
the other ishiro honda movies that i've seen

00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:37.899
so uh yeah i wish i knew a little bit more about

00:13:37.899 --> 00:13:40.059
new stuff coming up but like the old stuff I've

00:13:40.059 --> 00:13:43.080
seen recently has been fantastic. You brought

00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.700
up Matango. Paul, this is a movie I recommend

00:13:46.700 --> 00:13:50.700
to anybody. And it's really trippy and really

00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:54.480
horrifying, actually. This sounds like The Last

00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:58.990
of Us, but like on an island. And starring a

00:13:58.990 --> 00:14:01.929
bunch of young, dumb people. So send it my way.

00:14:01.970 --> 00:14:06.029
I'll watch it. Yeah. It's less zombie -ish than

00:14:06.029 --> 00:14:08.490
The Last of Us. But yeah, aside from that, it

00:14:08.490 --> 00:14:10.789
has a lot of parallels for sure. Right. Yeah.

00:14:10.870 --> 00:14:13.090
It's American release was called Attack of the

00:14:13.090 --> 00:14:16.029
Mushroom People. Oh, wow. There you go. You'll

00:14:16.029 --> 00:14:19.129
find that around. One newer movie that I'm curious

00:14:19.129 --> 00:14:20.990
about, and I don't know if it's totally a monster

00:14:20.990 --> 00:14:23.070
movie, but have either of you guys seen him yet?

00:14:23.289 --> 00:14:26.350
Which is like the football horror movie? No.

00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:30.879
I have been wanting to see it, have not had a

00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:36.860
chance to yet. Same. Yeah, it just looks so interesting

00:14:36.860 --> 00:14:39.480
and compelling. I mean, there's a lot of criticism

00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:41.539
you could apply to football and the NFL, and

00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:43.399
I feel like that movie is obviously getting to

00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.440
that a little bit. And it seems kind of monsterish,

00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:49.039
kind of horrorish, so I'm excited to see it.

00:14:49.059 --> 00:14:50.700
I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Yeah,

00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:54.220
a good psychological thriller. Yeah. We're going

00:14:54.220 --> 00:14:57.659
into 2026 here, but I'm... I'm a big Scream fan.

00:14:57.980 --> 00:15:00.419
So like I'm looking forward to Scream 7, like

00:15:00.419 --> 00:15:02.440
with my whole heart. And I just finished reading

00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:04.559
a great book called Your Favorite Scary Movie

00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:08.340
by Ashley Collins. And it's a big deep dive into

00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:10.940
the Scream franchise. And she has like over 80

00:15:10.940 --> 00:15:13.080
interviews with like everyone involved in that

00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:15.259
franchise. So it's been, it was a phenomenal

00:15:15.259 --> 00:15:17.899
read. Great read for any Scream fans out there.

00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.519
And I'm looking forward to the new one. Cool.

00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.500
That sounds great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is

00:15:24.500 --> 00:15:29.740
your history? Paul or Matt, with either The Phantom

00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:32.440
of the Opera, this specific Lon Chaney film,

00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:37.299
or the, I guess, the property as a whole in all

00:15:37.299 --> 00:15:41.539
of its iterations? My entry point is really just

00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:45.159
the musical. I have not seen, I've not read the

00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:48.960
book. I've not seen the movie until I prepped

00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.019
for this. But my entry point into Phantom is

00:15:51.019 --> 00:15:53.399
the Angeloid Webber musical that I've seen a

00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:57.570
bunch of times on TV. tour and that even a newer

00:15:57.570 --> 00:15:59.649
iteration that they did on tour and then i've

00:15:59.649 --> 00:16:01.429
seen it a couple times on broadway before it

00:16:01.429 --> 00:16:03.710
closed on broadway so i'm very familiar with

00:16:03.710 --> 00:16:07.710
the android weber of it all and what that is

00:16:07.710 --> 00:16:09.529
like so it was kind of interesting to see this

00:16:09.529 --> 00:16:11.409
movie with that in the back of my head and to

00:16:11.409 --> 00:16:13.889
see like where maybe where the musical kind of

00:16:13.889 --> 00:16:16.330
pays homage to the movie and does some different

00:16:16.330 --> 00:16:19.289
things and yeah it's not my favorite musical

00:16:19.289 --> 00:16:22.620
at all i think it's There's a big inside joke

00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:26.139
in my house because my husband really loves it.

00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:28.639
And he's got some just deep personal connections

00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:31.659
to it. So we try to see it when we can. And the

00:16:31.659 --> 00:16:34.100
last time we saw it on Broadway, there was a

00:16:34.100 --> 00:16:36.360
big stage mishap. But that's not even the story

00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:39.419
I'm going to tell you. We get to the end of the

00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:41.220
first act and Raul and Christine are singing

00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:44.600
All I Ask of You. this is like their second scene

00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:46.259
together and now we're supposed to believe that

00:16:46.259 --> 00:16:48.860
they have this great love song to end all love

00:16:48.860 --> 00:16:51.919
songs i'm like did we earn it like what is happening

00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:54.440
right now and i've seen the show so many times

00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:57.159
and yet you know weber what are you doing here

00:16:57.159 --> 00:17:02.299
like i don't know not not a fan not my favorite

00:17:02.299 --> 00:17:05.859
android weber musical by any means that's funny

00:17:05.859 --> 00:17:08.680
i'm the opposite i have never seen the stage

00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:13.339
musical i saw i've seen the movie oh trash Yeah,

00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:17.680
even then. Schumacher, what were you doing? Yeah.

00:17:18.059 --> 00:17:22.559
Does not work. I mean, everyone got paid and,

00:17:22.579 --> 00:17:28.119
you know, kudos to them. I first watched in its

00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:31.420
entirety this Lon Chaney 1925 version just a

00:17:31.420 --> 00:17:34.740
few years ago, and I fell in love with it. And

00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:37.880
I've always been a fan of silent movies, though

00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:40.980
I haven't done like a big deep dive until recently.

00:17:42.979 --> 00:17:47.859
And now the musical is touring again. And I am

00:17:47.859 --> 00:17:49.880
definitely going to buy my ticket because now

00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:53.059
I want to see what the musical does now that

00:17:53.059 --> 00:17:55.079
I've seen the movie first. So I'm the opposite

00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:58.059
of you in that regard. So I'm excited. I can't

00:17:58.059 --> 00:18:00.799
wait. And the longest running show on Broadway,

00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:05.140
it has toured 85 ,000 times. And I'm just surprised

00:18:05.140 --> 00:18:09.480
that you've never seen it. I, I, I'm a theater

00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:12.930
guy. I was going to say like, yeah yeah yeah

00:18:12.930 --> 00:18:15.569
and i've you know every time i go to broadway

00:18:15.569 --> 00:18:18.009
i try to see a musical but maybe because it was

00:18:18.009 --> 00:18:20.930
always running i just took it for granted see

00:18:20.930 --> 00:18:24.029
now it's too late you're 30 years too late well

00:18:24.029 --> 00:18:27.329
actually i take that back because there's a new

00:18:27.329 --> 00:18:31.750
like immersive production of phantom that's off

00:18:31.750 --> 00:18:35.369
broadway called masquerade And you like go throughout,

00:18:35.430 --> 00:18:37.549
it's like an immersive kind of site specific

00:18:37.549 --> 00:18:39.849
where you go throughout the space. There's like

00:18:39.849 --> 00:18:41.630
five different people playing the Phantom at

00:18:41.630 --> 00:18:44.470
different points of the show. Like it's the musical,

00:18:45.009 --> 00:18:47.470
but done differently. Like they did this with

00:18:47.470 --> 00:18:50.289
Cats or like last season called Cats Angelical

00:18:50.289 --> 00:18:52.910
Ball, which then featured Cats, but told like

00:18:52.910 --> 00:18:56.589
a post, like a ball competition. And it worked

00:18:56.589 --> 00:18:58.950
really well. I didn't see it. I guess I shouldn't.

00:18:59.589 --> 00:19:02.390
have a definitive opinion but people are kind

00:19:02.390 --> 00:19:04.769
of loving this take on phantom called masquerade

00:19:04.769 --> 00:19:08.009
so i'm like well i would see that and we'll see

00:19:08.009 --> 00:19:09.650
the tour like we've got our season tickets so

00:19:09.650 --> 00:19:12.769
like we'll we'll see it but nice maybe i'll see

00:19:12.769 --> 00:19:19.779
you there matt yeah probably Um, so yeah, I mostly

00:19:19.779 --> 00:19:22.519
come to this through like more on the film side.

00:19:22.660 --> 00:19:24.380
Like I remember seeing the Lon Chaney Phantom

00:19:24.380 --> 00:19:25.940
of the Opera, which we're talking about tonight

00:19:25.940 --> 00:19:28.279
a long time ago, like in high school when I first

00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:30.900
like really got into movies and I was like renting

00:19:30.900 --> 00:19:33.079
every movie from the library I possibly could.

00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:35.819
I watched this in Hunchback with Lon Chaney right

00:19:35.819 --> 00:19:38.180
around that time, but I haven't seen it since

00:19:38.180 --> 00:19:40.880
then. And that's, you know, dating myself a little

00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:42.920
bit, but that would be like more than 20 years

00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:46.099
ago now. But that's my main entry point into

00:19:46.099 --> 00:19:48.200
Phantom of the Opera. I did see the Andrew Lloyd

00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:51.220
Webber musical when I was in middle school, I

00:19:51.220 --> 00:19:53.519
think, in Chicago with my family. And that's

00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:56.160
a sign of how popular the musical is, because

00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:58.119
I'm not even really a big musical guy. And this

00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:00.299
is one of the few that I've actually seen. So

00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:03.079
I remember liking it at the time, but I was an

00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.559
undiscerning 15 -year -old. So what did I know

00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:13.230
at the time? Hey, I mean... But at 15, your family

00:20:13.230 --> 00:20:14.589
should get to see it because it's accessible.

00:20:15.430 --> 00:20:20.910
A lot of non -musical lovers go to it. It's like

00:20:20.910 --> 00:20:22.789
their kind of entry point into Broadway or music

00:20:22.789 --> 00:20:25.390
theater. It's different than a lot of musicals

00:20:25.390 --> 00:20:29.630
out there. Yeah, yeah. And I guess you can make

00:20:29.630 --> 00:20:31.190
a point that that's a good or a bad thing, that

00:20:31.190 --> 00:20:32.730
it's sort of like the musical for people who

00:20:32.730 --> 00:20:35.349
don't like musicals. It's a whole other podcast.

00:20:35.710 --> 00:20:38.349
Right, exactly. But yeah, I definitely came at

00:20:38.349 --> 00:20:40.210
it more from the film side. I do also want to

00:20:40.210 --> 00:20:41.849
mention that even though this was only the second

00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:44.049
time I've seen Phantom of the Opera, I've seen

00:20:44.049 --> 00:20:46.230
Phantom of the Paradise by Brian De Palma like

00:20:46.230 --> 00:20:49.029
10 times, which is a great sort of like homage

00:20:49.029 --> 00:20:52.390
to slash like subversion of Phantom of the Opera

00:20:52.390 --> 00:20:54.910
and sort of like updates a lot of the themes

00:20:54.910 --> 00:20:57.910
for the 1970s when it was made. So weirdly enough,

00:20:58.009 --> 00:21:01.720
I feel like I know De Palma's like... re -envisioning

00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:03.900
of it more than the actual original version of

00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:05.660
it. And I do want to shout out that movie because

00:21:05.660 --> 00:21:07.099
it's incredible. If you haven't seen Phantom

00:21:07.099 --> 00:21:10.240
of the Paradise, it's great. I haven't, but I

00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:12.680
liked De Palma's work. Oh, you'd like that movie.

00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:16.000
Yeah, he's a director that I really need to know

00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:19.519
more of. I've obviously seen every Spielberg

00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:23.319
movie and most of Scorsese. So that group of

00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:25.339
filmmakers that all came out together and came

00:21:25.339 --> 00:21:28.049
up together and were friends together. Yeah,

00:21:28.130 --> 00:21:30.089
he's like the one of those five that I'm like,

00:21:30.109 --> 00:21:32.730
I still need to see more of his work. I love

00:21:32.730 --> 00:21:34.509
him. One of the most visually stylish directors

00:21:34.509 --> 00:21:36.230
of all time, for sure. Well, I mean, Carrie,

00:21:36.569 --> 00:21:38.670
I mean, that's classic for a reason. And that's

00:21:38.670 --> 00:21:41.349
all that's a lot of that's him. Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:41.569 --> 00:21:43.470
Yeah. And I think Phantom of the Paradise he

00:21:43.470 --> 00:21:46.470
made either right before or right after Carrie.

00:21:46.569 --> 00:21:48.029
I can't quite remember, but it's around that

00:21:48.029 --> 00:21:50.210
same time and has a lot of the same just like

00:21:50.210 --> 00:21:53.609
visual energy as Carrie. So yeah, yeah. Won't

00:21:53.609 --> 00:21:55.170
spend too much time on that movie, but it's awesome.

00:21:55.710 --> 00:22:01.400
Great. Future episode. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So

00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:06.819
you all are talking and I'm thinking about, like,

00:22:06.859 --> 00:22:09.799
why did I choose this movie? I mean, because

00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:13.400
it is the Phantom of the Opera. Through pop culture,

00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:16.099
we have just, like, we just know it, right? We

00:22:16.099 --> 00:22:19.660
all know the, if not the story, we know the mask.

00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:23.500
And, oh, there's a guy who stalks a woman under

00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:28.220
an opera house. There's a lot of music. But going

00:22:28.220 --> 00:22:31.420
back to this, I would say, original iteration,

00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:36.599
does it stand the test of time? Does a silent

00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:41.319
movie still carry weight with us? I mean, we're

00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:45.279
film lovers here, but maybe some listeners out

00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:49.559
there feel differently. Even us. I mean, we love

00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:53.720
film. We can appreciate film, but... Is it more

00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:55.920
of a historical artifact, if that makes sense,

00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:58.240
that we appreciate? Or is it a film that still

00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:01.819
truly captivates us in a way, in a storytelling

00:23:01.819 --> 00:23:05.539
element? Over this conversation, I'm excited

00:23:05.539 --> 00:23:08.240
to dive into all aspects, the history, the artistic

00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:10.900
merit. I may be getting the sense that I like

00:23:10.900 --> 00:23:13.700
this or like this even more than you do or did

00:23:13.700 --> 00:23:15.559
or whatever, but I don't want to provide any

00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:18.339
spoilers. So we'll find out over the course of

00:23:18.339 --> 00:23:20.769
this episode. Here is all you've ever wanted

00:23:20.769 --> 00:23:24.029
in entertainment, in one superb show. Here is

00:23:24.029 --> 00:23:27.470
matchless story, suspenseful, terrifying, never

00:23:27.470 --> 00:23:30.210
so thrillingly presented. Here in breathtaking

00:23:30.210 --> 00:23:33.670
technicolor is superb spectacle and splendor

00:23:33.670 --> 00:23:36.609
and romance. Here is a chorus of a hundred voices,

00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:40.390
a ballet of a hundred dancers, a cast of a thousand.

00:23:40.750 --> 00:23:43.549
Starring Nelson Eddy in his most vigorous performance.

00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:47.759
lovely Susanna Foster, and Claude Rains in the

00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:50.140
most coveted role of the year as the Phantom

00:23:50.140 --> 00:23:54.819
of the Opera. My music! You've stolen it! You've

00:23:54.819 --> 00:24:08.799
stolen my music! Some stories have so great a

00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:13.640
power that with each new generation, They are

00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:21.039
reborn. It was a feeling, a passion. But it had

00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:27.240
to come from somewhere. This was no phantom.

00:24:27.700 --> 00:24:30.619
Ghosts do not skin their victims. This is the

00:24:30.619 --> 00:24:35.140
work of an artist. We will make music that the

00:24:35.140 --> 00:24:39.940
world will love forever. Take the last step to

00:24:39.940 --> 00:24:47.910
me. You are the angel. You are my voice. I feel

00:24:47.910 --> 00:24:51.470
him and I hear him. I don't want this feeling

00:24:51.470 --> 00:24:57.309
ever to go away. The Phantom of the Opera. The

00:24:57.309 --> 00:25:00.710
all -time horror classic. The Phantom is real.

00:25:00.910 --> 00:25:05.089
It has a name. Is now a major motion picture.

00:25:05.329 --> 00:25:15.440
You love the music. I am the music. A lot of

00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:17.140
people are dead, Mr. Dutton, and the murderer

00:25:17.140 --> 00:25:22.420
is in your house. Someone is doing murder in

00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:28.660
Christine Day's name. Our souls are one. No!

00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:32.859
Robert Englund is... You're him, aren't you?

00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:38.400
The Phantom of the Opera. The Phantom of the

00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:56.480
Opera. Only love and music are forever. So this

00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:59.500
movie was directed by Rupert Julian. He was one

00:25:59.500 --> 00:26:01.619
of Universal's top directors at the time. He

00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:03.619
had kind of taken over the production of Mary

00:26:03.619 --> 00:26:05.680
Go Round, which had been an Eric von Stroheim

00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:10.099
movie, I believe. I'm 98 % sure about that. Sorry,

00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:11.279
I'm kind of going off the top of my head right

00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.839
here. But that kind of like, yeah, that put him

00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:16.200
in like the good graces of the Universal like

00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:18.960
head honchos. So yeah, Rupert Julian was kind

00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:20.579
of one of the top directors at the time. He took

00:26:20.579 --> 00:26:22.480
over for Phantom of the Opera. It's probably

00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:26.259
his best known surviving work. Did not get along

00:26:26.259 --> 00:26:27.920
very well with some of the cast and crew, but

00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:29.279
we'll probably talk about that a little bit more

00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.759
later. The supplemental director of Phantom of

00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:36.940
the Opera was Edward Sedgwick. He took over after

00:26:36.940 --> 00:26:39.960
Rupert Julian kind of left the project or was

00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:42.579
replaced towards the end of the shooting. Sedgwick

00:26:42.579 --> 00:26:45.740
directed the final chase through Paris. Like

00:26:45.740 --> 00:26:47.619
I was kind of just alluding to, the relationship

00:26:47.619 --> 00:26:49.960
between Lon Chaney and Rupert Julian kind of

00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:52.839
soured during the making of the movie, so that's

00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:55.180
why Sedgwick took over at some point. He had

00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:57.259
a flair for comedy, having directed all but one

00:26:57.259 --> 00:26:59.859
of Buster Keaton's films at MGM, so Phantom of

00:26:59.859 --> 00:27:02.420
the Opera may be kind of a strange choice for

00:27:02.420 --> 00:27:05.650
Edward Sedgwick. The producer was Carl Lemel,

00:27:05.769 --> 00:27:09.210
the famous Carl Lemel. Carl Lemel Jr., of course,

00:27:09.210 --> 00:27:10.930
was the main producer in a lot of the universal

00:27:10.930 --> 00:27:12.769
horror movies that would be made over the next

00:27:12.769 --> 00:27:16.230
15 to 20 years. So Carl Lemel, German immigrant

00:27:16.230 --> 00:27:19.490
who co -founded Universal Pictures in 1912. The

00:27:19.490 --> 00:27:21.930
scenario of Phantom of the Opera was by Elliot

00:27:21.930 --> 00:27:25.509
Clausen, and it was from the novel, which I believe

00:27:25.509 --> 00:27:28.829
was published in 1910, written by Gaston Leroux.

00:27:29.369 --> 00:27:32.269
I got nothing else. Oh, the cameraman. Do you

00:27:32.269 --> 00:27:35.390
know that Buster Keaton film? Yeah. Yep. It's

00:27:35.390 --> 00:27:38.170
a good one. You know, I feel like as far as Keaton

00:27:38.170 --> 00:27:40.250
movies go, I feel like Sherlock Jr. does similar

00:27:40.250 --> 00:27:43.329
things in like a better, more interesting, funnier,

00:27:43.369 --> 00:27:45.410
more bizarre way. But The Cameraman is very cool.

00:27:45.549 --> 00:27:47.609
I like that movie a lot. That was directed by

00:27:47.609 --> 00:27:52.529
Edward Sedgwick. My first experiences with silent

00:27:52.529 --> 00:27:55.890
film was in high school. And anytime TCM played

00:27:55.890 --> 00:27:58.309
a silent movie, I tried to be there to watch

00:27:58.309 --> 00:28:03.599
it. I quickly kind of discerned that if it's

00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:07.299
a funny movie, silent movie, or a horror silent

00:28:07.299 --> 00:28:11.579
movie, my attention is just that much more focused.

00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:14.920
It was some of the dramas that I would get a

00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:19.079
little lost in and, you know, it was kind of

00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:22.519
hard to watch sometimes. But Buster Keaton was

00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:25.980
my favorite in high school. Yeah, before I got

00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:28.720
into like Charlie Chaplin stuff. I think I'm

00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:31.539
a Buster Keaton guy. I feel like I'm at the point

00:28:31.539 --> 00:28:33.460
where I love them both equally. And I'm like,

00:28:33.539 --> 00:28:35.599
can we all just get along? Keaton and Chaplin

00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:37.259
are like equally great in different ways, in

00:28:37.259 --> 00:28:39.420
my opinion. But I feel like both of them together

00:28:39.420 --> 00:28:42.640
and also Harold Lloyd, like for people that don't

00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:43.980
like, you know, haven't seen a lot of silent

00:28:43.980 --> 00:28:45.500
movies, maybe aren't sure if they would like

00:28:45.500 --> 00:28:47.859
them. Start with those three silent comedians.

00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:52.140
Those hold up extremely well. Actually, just

00:28:52.140 --> 00:28:54.279
real quick. The first Lon Chaney movie I ever

00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:56.890
saw was called The Monster. And that was released

00:28:56.890 --> 00:29:01.210
in 1925, the same year as Phantom. And that one's

00:29:01.210 --> 00:29:02.910
readily available just kind of in the public

00:29:02.910 --> 00:29:06.150
domain. And he plays a mad scientist in a house

00:29:06.150 --> 00:29:10.069
of horrors who like lures people to his home.

00:29:10.329 --> 00:29:12.849
And there's like monstrosities around. So if

00:29:12.849 --> 00:29:15.170
you haven't seen The Monster, I'd recommend that

00:29:15.170 --> 00:29:18.529
one too. I hope you put all these titles in the

00:29:18.529 --> 00:29:20.670
notes that people can go back to their bibliography

00:29:20.670 --> 00:29:23.049
and like write down all the things we're talking

00:29:23.049 --> 00:29:24.769
about. I don't know if you ever, you know, do

00:29:24.769 --> 00:29:29.009
that, but. God, I've got ideas now. Yeah. That

00:29:29.009 --> 00:29:30.809
is a good idea. We do that with like reviews

00:29:30.809 --> 00:29:33.029
and like books that we reference sometimes, but

00:29:33.029 --> 00:29:34.349
I don't know if we really do that for movies.

00:29:34.670 --> 00:29:36.410
Maybe we do. Sorry if I'm wrong about that, Vincent,

00:29:36.490 --> 00:29:39.450
but yeah, we should do that. No, I've never considered

00:29:39.450 --> 00:29:43.970
our listeners in that way. And we're not going

00:29:43.970 --> 00:29:49.710
to. All right, we'll do it. Yeah. All right.

00:29:49.750 --> 00:29:53.809
And I think just a pronunciation check. Lemley

00:29:53.809 --> 00:29:57.589
is how I've always heard Carl Lemley's name.

00:29:58.269 --> 00:30:00.890
Well, good old Carl Lemley decided he would go

00:30:00.890 --> 00:30:06.029
and cast his niece in the piece as one of the

00:30:06.029 --> 00:30:09.130
prima ballerinas. She was 15 at the time, and

00:30:09.130 --> 00:30:11.690
she lived a long, good life. She lived until

00:30:11.690 --> 00:30:17.910
2014 and died at 104. Like, my God, I don't want

00:30:17.910 --> 00:30:20.779
to live that long. So you will not. hopefully

00:30:20.779 --> 00:30:23.039
see me that long. But yeah, that's really great.

00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:27.240
So a little family connection there to Carl,

00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:29.559
his niece, as the prima valerina. You have Arthur

00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:34.140
Edmund Carew as the inspector. That character

00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:36.920
was called the Persian in the novel. And he was

00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:39.259
a very well -respected Armenian actor, Armenian

00:30:39.259 --> 00:30:41.259
-American actor at the time, which I think is

00:30:41.259 --> 00:30:45.319
really cool. He was thought to maybe be considered

00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:47.480
for Dracula. But then, of course, Bela Lugosi

00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:50.869
went on to play Dracula. And I read, interestingly

00:30:50.869 --> 00:30:55.150
enough, in the musical, the Inspector Ledoux

00:30:55.150 --> 00:30:58.769
character is not in that musical. Am I right

00:30:58.769 --> 00:31:01.769
about that? I don't think so. That doesn't ring

00:31:01.769 --> 00:31:04.549
a bell to me. Interesting. I'm more familiar

00:31:04.549 --> 00:31:08.549
with Madame Jury and Raoul and The Phantom and

00:31:08.549 --> 00:31:13.390
Christine and Carlotta. Well, yeah, Mary Philbin.

00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:15.720
Yeah, she goes and plays Christine. If people

00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:17.880
don't know Christine Daae, she is the main, like,

00:31:17.900 --> 00:31:21.180
ingenue that the Phantom has, is entranced over,

00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:24.279
wants. And Mary Philbin began her acting career

00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:26.900
after she won a beauty pageant sponsored by Universal.

00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:29.779
Easy way in there. She only made a couple of

00:31:29.779 --> 00:31:33.460
films. I mean, this is 1925. She retired in 1930

00:31:33.460 --> 00:31:35.740
after she dubbed her voice, which we'll talk

00:31:35.740 --> 00:31:39.660
about in a later iteration of Phantom. She redubbed

00:31:39.660 --> 00:31:42.200
her voice for it. And that was kind of the end

00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:45.509
of her career. pop out for the 1989 premiere

00:31:45.509 --> 00:31:47.950
of the musical. So kind of made a little appearance

00:31:47.950 --> 00:31:50.630
there, which I think is really cool, but yeah.

00:31:50.690 --> 00:31:53.369
And then Norman Carey played Raul and Raul is

00:31:53.369 --> 00:31:55.670
the one that loves Christine. It's kind of fighting

00:31:55.670 --> 00:31:57.309
over the Phantom over Christine and it's kind

00:31:57.309 --> 00:31:59.269
of love triangle that takes place in the show.

00:31:59.410 --> 00:32:02.009
And he's tall, dark, handsome played by Patrick

00:32:02.009 --> 00:32:05.430
Wilson in the movie musical from the, one of

00:32:05.430 --> 00:32:06.869
the few highlights of that movie was Patrick

00:32:06.869 --> 00:32:09.690
Wilson. And, you know, we now know him in the

00:32:09.690 --> 00:32:12.200
conjuring universe. He was in the Volonti on

00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:14.440
Broadway. Gorgeous, gorgeous singing voice, but

00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:18.119
yeah. He would also star with Lon Chaney in Hunchback

00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:22.700
of Notre Dame, The Unknown. He also re -recorded

00:32:22.700 --> 00:32:25.559
his voice for The Phantom of 1929 as well. But

00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:27.720
I guess they're all working for Universal contract

00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:31.119
players. Contract players. Tis the day, tis the

00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:35.480
time. Yeah, studio era. I love classic Hollywood

00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:39.789
history personally, so Lon Chaney. I've always

00:32:39.789 --> 00:32:43.750
been aware of. He was born Leonidas Chaney. And

00:32:43.750 --> 00:32:50.809
he was one of the biggest stars of the day in

00:32:50.809 --> 00:32:54.950
an era where there were more stars in the MGM

00:32:54.950 --> 00:32:57.789
studio than in heaven. That was what MGM said.

00:32:58.210 --> 00:33:00.930
But he worked with MGM. He worked with Universal.

00:33:01.349 --> 00:33:04.109
He kind of did everything, worked with everybody

00:33:04.109 --> 00:33:06.970
from the very beginning. He moved to Hollywood

00:33:06.970 --> 00:33:11.539
in 1912. And started working in pictures then.

00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:14.700
Before then, he was in the vaudeville circuit

00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:18.700
doing a lot of, you know, comedies, melodramas,

00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:24.079
burlesque, even all sorts of things. He was born

00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:28.119
in Colorado, Colorado Springs, I think. And I

00:33:28.119 --> 00:33:31.960
just found this is like, I think, central to

00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:38.490
his persona. He is so. connected to silent movies

00:33:38.490 --> 00:33:42.470
because he has such a strong physicality. And

00:33:42.470 --> 00:33:46.430
that was actually born out of necessity. His

00:33:46.430 --> 00:33:50.430
parents, both of whom were deaf. So from the

00:33:50.430 --> 00:33:54.210
very beginning, he was needing to pantomime just

00:33:54.210 --> 00:33:59.049
to communicate with his parents. I think a really

00:33:59.049 --> 00:34:01.990
fun fact, but also just like an important fact

00:34:01.990 --> 00:34:04.930
is his maternal grandparents founded the Colorado

00:34:04.930 --> 00:34:08.750
school for the deaf in 1874, which is still in

00:34:08.750 --> 00:34:13.489
existence in Colorado. So I just, I just think

00:34:13.489 --> 00:34:17.809
that's a legacy worth noting here. Yeah. Chaney

00:34:17.809 --> 00:34:23.570
knew ASL and brought all of these talents to,

00:34:23.730 --> 00:34:28.090
or all these skills rather to. his talents then

00:34:28.090 --> 00:34:33.670
on the screen. He made his big break in a movie

00:34:33.670 --> 00:34:36.269
called The Miracle Man, which is now lost. But

00:34:36.269 --> 00:34:39.989
he played a con artist who fakes being a paraplegic.

00:34:40.170 --> 00:34:44.409
And throughout the course of the movie, he fakes

00:34:44.409 --> 00:34:46.929
a miracle and then he can suddenly walk. And

00:34:46.929 --> 00:34:50.449
that movie was in 1919. Then in 1920, he played

00:34:50.449 --> 00:34:54.429
a gangster without legs in a movie called The

00:34:54.429 --> 00:34:57.929
Penalty, which I think I think it's partially

00:34:57.929 --> 00:35:00.670
lost or mostly lost, but there are still some

00:35:00.670 --> 00:35:04.349
snippets that exist. But this was like the first

00:35:04.349 --> 00:35:09.250
time Chaney, I would say, physically tortured

00:35:09.250 --> 00:35:13.349
himself, which sounds hyperbolic. And I think

00:35:13.349 --> 00:35:15.989
you can get into like the, maybe the more like

00:35:15.989 --> 00:35:19.750
the ethics of like torturing yourself for your

00:35:19.750 --> 00:35:23.989
craft. But he did in movies like Hunchback of

00:35:23.989 --> 00:35:27.400
Notre Dame, Phantom. And this movie, The Penalty,

00:35:27.420 --> 00:35:32.239
to achieve the effect of being legless, he bound

00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:34.659
his legs behind him so tightly that he actually

00:35:34.659 --> 00:35:37.320
suffered nerve damage for the rest of his life.

00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:41.400
But the effect was monumental. Audiences lost

00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:46.380
their minds and a star was born, to borrow a

00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:51.139
phrase. So his, I was going to say his peak,

00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:53.079
his heyday was the 1920s, but that was really

00:35:53.079 --> 00:35:56.340
it. Because then he ended up dying in 1930. of

00:35:56.340 --> 00:36:00.619
lung cancer. He was 47 years old. He was survived

00:36:00.619 --> 00:36:05.179
by his son, who became Lon Chaney Jr., we all

00:36:05.179 --> 00:36:08.320
know and love from The Wolfman and other universal

00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:12.400
horror classics. But Lon Chaney Jr.'s mother

00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:17.559
was an actress as well. And in the early days

00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:24.099
of her and Lon Sr.'s relationship, it was a very

00:36:24.099 --> 00:36:27.659
troubled marriage. And his first wife, Lon Chaney

00:36:27.659 --> 00:36:30.820
Jr.'s mother, attempted suicide on stage by drinking

00:36:30.820 --> 00:36:34.579
poison. She survived this, but it scarred her

00:36:34.579 --> 00:36:36.719
vocal cords beyond repair so she can never sing

00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.440
again like she did before. Chaney won custody

00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:45.360
of their son. And it's just all, I think, relevant

00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:49.159
to the characters that Lon Chaney plays in his

00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:52.699
movies. He's very well known for playing these

00:36:52.699 --> 00:36:56.559
emotionally... fraught but sincere characters.

00:36:56.679 --> 00:36:58.699
There's a lot of humanity in his performances.

00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:03.000
And when you know a little bit about his background,

00:37:03.260 --> 00:37:06.599
his parents, his marriage, his family life, it's

00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:08.780
just, you know, as an actor, I could, you know,

00:37:08.780 --> 00:37:11.420
he has a lot to pull from. I mean, talk about

00:37:11.420 --> 00:37:16.679
like a rich and complicated life legacy that

00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:20.880
you can pull from at a very young age and tragic

00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:23.099
at the same time. And what he would do for his

00:37:23.099 --> 00:37:25.599
art. And, you know, sometimes you hear of those

00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:28.860
types of, I don't think most actors these days

00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:30.699
would ever go to those lengths, nor should they

00:37:30.699 --> 00:37:33.800
by any means. Yeah. I mean, you hear, you hear

00:37:33.800 --> 00:37:35.420
about actors, you know, immersing themselves

00:37:35.420 --> 00:37:38.239
in the roles, which is kind of crap, but not

00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:40.880
to this extent. I don't think it would be, I

00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:43.280
don't think it would be approved of by the studios,

00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:46.980
by the insurance companies to do that. anymore

00:37:46.980 --> 00:37:49.579
i think when we talk about the making of this

00:37:49.579 --> 00:37:51.880
film you'll see oh that would never happen anymore

00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:55.280
and even the story is like a dated story and

00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:57.260
some of the movies that you were describing like

00:37:57.260 --> 00:37:59.079
oh they would never make that movie anymore that

00:37:59.079 --> 00:38:02.559
would that would not be a story anymore or perhaps

00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:06.280
we cast actors who look like the characters they're

00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:08.820
playing well there's that concept representation

00:38:08.820 --> 00:38:14.639
right yeah it kind of like the closest thing

00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:16.900
i can think of nowadays is like the weight fluctuations

00:38:16.900 --> 00:38:19.280
for example that like christian bale goes through

00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:20.860
or whatever but i feel like it's a totally different

00:38:20.860 --> 00:38:23.599
thing like it almost seems like a stunt in my

00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:25.539
opinion when christian bale does it but like

00:38:25.539 --> 00:38:28.980
for cheney it's like fully becoming that character

00:38:28.980 --> 00:38:32.119
now i mean not to you know hate on christian

00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:33.539
bale too much but i feel like it's just like

00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:36.619
a different yeah like just reaffirming what both

00:38:36.619 --> 00:38:39.619
you guys said like cheney pours himself into

00:38:39.619 --> 00:38:41.880
these characters and these roles to a greater

00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:44.179
extent and probably a more dangerous extent than

00:38:44.179 --> 00:38:47.639
any actor would do nowadays. Right. And if you

00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:49.300
are one of those types of actors, you're probably

00:38:49.300 --> 00:38:52.420
going to piss off your crew, your cast, because

00:38:52.420 --> 00:38:56.940
of what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. And Lon Chaney

00:38:56.940 --> 00:39:01.500
was, by some people's accounts, difficult to

00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:04.480
work with. He shunned the limelight, actually.

00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:06.719
He was one of those actors who didn't... He rarely

00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:11.769
gave interviews. He rarely gave the paparazzi

00:39:11.769 --> 00:39:14.989
any time of day. However, there's plenty of stories

00:39:14.989 --> 00:39:18.570
to the opposite, too, where he was very respectful

00:39:18.570 --> 00:39:21.769
of his co -stars. Joan Crawford, in one of her

00:39:21.769 --> 00:39:24.230
first movies, worked with him on The Unknown.

00:39:24.849 --> 00:39:28.170
And she's on the record stating that he took

00:39:28.170 --> 00:39:30.550
her under his wing and showed her the ropes and

00:39:30.550 --> 00:39:33.110
gave her a lot of acting lessons that she took

00:39:33.110 --> 00:39:37.429
with her. So people, we're all, we contain multitudes.

00:39:38.110 --> 00:39:41.889
yeah oh my god did you okay side tangent did

00:39:41.889 --> 00:39:45.849
you see the life of chuck no oh that's like the

00:39:45.849 --> 00:39:48.150
main theme of the life of chuck is that we all

00:39:48.150 --> 00:39:51.670
contain multitudes oh really it's so good it's

00:39:51.670 --> 00:39:53.150
based on a short story by stephen king written

00:39:53.150 --> 00:39:55.780
and directed by mike flanagan It's one of my

00:39:55.780 --> 00:39:57.659
favorite movies of the year. And they talk about

00:39:57.659 --> 00:40:00.420
this idea that we're all multitudes. And this

00:40:00.420 --> 00:40:03.679
beautiful scene as Chuck is a kid in his classroom

00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:05.920
and his teacher, who's played by Kate Siegel,

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.059
gives this great monologue to him, kind of holding

00:40:08.059 --> 00:40:10.099
his head, reminding him, like, we're all multitudes.

00:40:10.179 --> 00:40:13.599
And that's so good. Yes. I thought that's what

00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:17.840
you were quoting, to be quite honest. Cool. To

00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:20.079
be totally honest, I had low expectations with

00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:21.719
the trailer. I didn't think the trailer looked

00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:23.619
all that good. But on your recommendation, I

00:40:23.619 --> 00:40:25.519
will move it up the list now. it's just one of

00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:27.500
those like once you watch you're like i am so

00:40:27.500 --> 00:40:30.300
moved and inspired by this story and it's maybe

00:40:30.300 --> 00:40:31.659
it's because i'm a king fan maybe it's because

00:40:31.659 --> 00:40:34.199
i'm a mike flanagan fan and all of that together

00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.400
and different type of storytelling for both of

00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:38.880
them different type of story for both of them

00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:43.159
and it all is beautiful wow cool i'll move it

00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:45.440
up the list can i can i mention one more thing

00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:47.539
about lon chaney real quick just to go back on

00:40:47.539 --> 00:40:49.750
topic or whatever Well, I was reading, you know,

00:40:49.750 --> 00:40:51.250
doing, trying to do a little research before

00:40:51.250 --> 00:40:53.010
tonight. I read that he worked pretty closely

00:40:53.010 --> 00:40:55.449
with Mary Philbin too, and like tried to coach

00:40:55.449 --> 00:40:56.929
her a little bit since this was kind of an early

00:40:56.929 --> 00:40:59.210
role for her. And like, one of the things he

00:40:59.210 --> 00:41:01.510
told her from what I read was that like, you

00:41:01.510 --> 00:41:03.989
know, in performing on screen for the camera,

00:41:04.010 --> 00:41:06.679
as opposed to performing on stage, like. You

00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:09.659
just want to make sure that the audience feels

00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:11.579
your emotions. You don't want to necessarily

00:41:11.579 --> 00:41:15.059
emote to the rafters and display every single

00:41:15.059 --> 00:41:19.760
movement and every tear and every single gesture.

00:41:20.099 --> 00:41:21.920
He was kind of trying to teach Mary Philbin a

00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:25.039
little bit. Subtlety goes a long way, and it

00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:27.599
might help the audience in a movie theater really

00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:30.840
feel what you're going through instead of over

00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:32.260
-emoting. And I just thought that was kind of

00:41:32.260 --> 00:41:34.679
interesting that he tried to work with her closely

00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:37.139
on this production. Bring it back to the Dracula

00:41:37.139 --> 00:41:39.780
connection. This is kind of in the legacy, release

00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:43.320
and legacy. So right before Chaney died, this

00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:46.619
was in 1931, Universal was already talking about

00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:49.820
doing Bram Stoker's Dracula with Todd Browning,

00:41:49.820 --> 00:41:52.400
who did direct it. And Browning and Chaney had

00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:54.780
worked together on like 10 previous movies. They

00:41:54.780 --> 00:41:58.460
were pitch perfect for each other. But then Chaney

00:41:58.460 --> 00:42:03.610
died. And then Universal literally offered. the

00:42:03.610 --> 00:42:07.489
role to everybody on the roster, including our

00:42:07.489 --> 00:42:10.969
actor, Carew, who plays Inspector Ledoux. Nobody

00:42:10.969 --> 00:42:15.670
wanted to do it. Bela Lugosi offered to do it,

00:42:15.690 --> 00:42:17.889
I think, don't quote me on this, but I think

00:42:17.889 --> 00:42:22.590
it was like $500 a week, which was such a drastic

00:42:22.590 --> 00:42:24.650
pay cut, even at the time, like that was nothing.

00:42:24.889 --> 00:42:28.190
But Lugosi was a Hungarian immigrant, new to

00:42:28.190 --> 00:42:31.550
Hollywood. He said, I'll do it. And Carl Laemmle

00:42:31.550 --> 00:42:34.559
finally said, fine. Legosi, you can have it.

00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:38.179
And it turned him into a star. Wow. Chain's death

00:42:38.179 --> 00:42:41.940
like kind of opened. I hate those stories. Like

00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:44.760
someone has to die to open, you know, the path

00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:47.780
for the up and comer, but it's a classic story

00:42:47.780 --> 00:42:50.659
nonetheless. And it's kind of true in this case.

00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:53.659
Yeah. In retrospect, why would you not want to

00:42:53.659 --> 00:42:55.500
play Dracula? It's such a star turn, you know,

00:42:55.539 --> 00:42:59.119
surprising, but different time. Getting back

00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:01.820
to Phantom of the Opera. So the novel by Gaston

00:43:01.820 --> 00:43:05.420
Leroux was published in 1910. Lon Chaney optioned

00:43:05.420 --> 00:43:08.559
the film rights in November of 1923. Universal

00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:11.619
wanted him to make the film for $100 ,000. He

00:43:11.619 --> 00:43:13.760
consulted with his business manager who said

00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:16.159
it could not be done for less than $200 ,000.

00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:20.599
In modern terms or, you know, modern money amounts,

00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:24.780
that amounts to $200 ,000 would be about $3 .65

00:43:24.780 --> 00:43:28.099
million. Phantom of the Opera is well known for

00:43:28.099 --> 00:43:31.000
having no trick or mat shots. There were five

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.719
tiers of theater boxes that were built to replicate

00:43:33.719 --> 00:43:37.239
the real Paris Opera House. The entirety of stage

00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:40.159
28 on the Universal backlot was dedicated to

00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:44.420
the set. It was not torn down until 2021 and

00:43:44.420 --> 00:43:46.940
was featured in many other movies. It's a fantastic

00:43:46.940 --> 00:43:49.500
set. In my opinion, one of the best things about

00:43:49.500 --> 00:43:51.679
this movie, you can tell just how enormous and

00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:54.869
grandiose these sets are. And so when I watched

00:43:54.869 --> 00:43:56.489
this movie a couple days ago, I thought that

00:43:56.489 --> 00:43:58.650
they like tinted the film, which was done with

00:43:58.650 --> 00:44:00.769
a lot of silent movies at the time. But it turns

00:44:00.769 --> 00:44:02.909
out I was wrong. It was actually done with an

00:44:02.909 --> 00:44:05.570
early process of technicolor for some scenes,

00:44:05.710 --> 00:44:08.329
including the film's masquerade ball scene. I

00:44:08.329 --> 00:44:10.429
think it was like a two strip technicolor as

00:44:10.429 --> 00:44:12.789
opposed to like three strip technicolor, which

00:44:12.789 --> 00:44:14.610
would become a lot more famous later with The

00:44:14.610 --> 00:44:16.929
Wizard of Oz and other movies. So it has a really

00:44:16.929 --> 00:44:20.670
kind of fantastic, bizarre, you know, bold reds

00:44:20.670 --> 00:44:22.650
and blues kind of color scheme for certain scenes.

00:44:22.860 --> 00:44:26.599
which looks really amazing. I love that. I just

00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:31.219
love real sets. Screw CGI. Build a real set and

00:44:31.219 --> 00:44:34.619
have actors walking around your set. It makes

00:44:34.619 --> 00:44:36.940
a world of difference. It's like in Rear Window.

00:44:37.179 --> 00:44:41.280
The whole apartment is real and is not built

00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:44.480
on a soundstage and that high up that Hitchcock

00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:46.760
is filming at. I think that's a crazy story too.

00:44:46.980 --> 00:44:50.119
The chandelier scene in Phantom that's so infamous

00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:52.980
is actually a camera trick where they Not even

00:44:52.980 --> 00:44:55.940
a trick per se, but they filmed it rising and

00:44:55.940 --> 00:44:58.840
then reversed it so it looks like it's falling

00:44:58.840 --> 00:45:01.260
down on the set. And of course, in the musical,

00:45:01.460 --> 00:45:03.780
it's a big moment in the musical. We talked about

00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:06.659
Lon Chaney's makeup. He did all of his own makeup

00:45:06.659 --> 00:45:09.480
prosthetics for the movie. You've got a bald

00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:12.539
cap. You've got gross hair. He glued his ears

00:45:12.539 --> 00:45:17.019
back to his head. He put wires in his nose to

00:45:17.019 --> 00:45:19.860
make it look like his face was more skeleton

00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:23.429
looking. I mean, his teeth are all gross. Like,

00:45:23.489 --> 00:45:26.590
it's really cool effects for the era. But you,

00:45:26.710 --> 00:45:29.449
again, you would never do that nowadays. You

00:45:29.449 --> 00:45:31.349
would never have an actor doing his own makeup

00:45:31.349 --> 00:45:33.869
like that. You would have a makeup department,

00:45:34.010 --> 00:45:36.849
a hair department. And unless it is some really

00:45:36.849 --> 00:45:39.030
scrappy independent movie where the actors are

00:45:39.030 --> 00:45:42.469
all doing multiple jobs in a big studio picture

00:45:42.469 --> 00:45:44.230
like this, you would never have that. So I think

00:45:44.230 --> 00:45:47.489
it's really cool that... He did it all and it's

00:45:47.489 --> 00:45:49.949
effective. I mean, when you have the unmasking,

00:45:50.010 --> 00:45:53.369
it's really, it's a really great shot and really

00:45:53.369 --> 00:45:56.110
cool effect that they did. The Universal's marketing

00:45:56.110 --> 00:45:59.150
department did not want any photos of him maskless.

00:45:59.170 --> 00:46:00.949
So like they didn't want to spoil the effect

00:46:00.949 --> 00:46:04.650
of it. And it's, it's well done. I mean, he's,

00:46:04.650 --> 00:46:08.449
it's, it's a good effect, good makeup. I think

00:46:08.449 --> 00:46:10.929
it speaks to the early days of Hollywood where

00:46:10.929 --> 00:46:13.889
it was more, I don't know, vaudevillian and just

00:46:13.889 --> 00:46:17.480
more. Scrappy. Like we don't have a makeup department.

00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:21.019
That's you. You got to bring your toolbox. Yeah.

00:46:21.639 --> 00:46:25.139
Your tackle box. Yeah. Tackle your pen nine number

00:46:25.139 --> 00:46:30.679
five. Yes. Mine's in my daughter's room right

00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:38.300
now. Theater school. Yes. So the production of

00:46:38.300 --> 00:46:41.920
this story, this movie, began in November of

00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:46.920
1924. Lon Chaney had just, he who gets slapped

00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:49.860
at MGM had just been released, and he starts

00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:54.099
production on Phantom. The movie as a whole goes

00:46:54.099 --> 00:46:56.980
through several different iterations. Lots of

00:46:56.980 --> 00:46:58.960
test screenings are involved, but the original

00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:03.460
ending had Eric, the Phantom of the Opera, dying

00:47:03.460 --> 00:47:07.820
in his lair of a broken heart. This very first

00:47:07.820 --> 00:47:11.440
iteration screened in January of 1925. Preview

00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:14.289
audiences hated it. they were confused by this

00:47:14.289 --> 00:47:19.730
ending. So now Universal brings in Sedgwick to

00:47:19.730 --> 00:47:24.530
direct whole new scenes, leveraging his background

00:47:24.530 --> 00:47:29.190
on comedy and action. So this new version is

00:47:29.190 --> 00:47:34.309
more light in tone, and it ran in 1925, and preview

00:47:34.309 --> 00:47:38.269
audiences also hated it. So now Universal's like,

00:47:38.429 --> 00:47:43.659
okay, what do we gotta do? They... They cut most

00:47:43.659 --> 00:47:46.280
of the Sedgwick footage, actually, except the

00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:49.119
ending, that climactic chase through the streets

00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:54.460
of Paris. They add back in most of the Rupert

00:47:54.460 --> 00:47:57.639
Julian footage, the initial footage, to bring

00:47:57.639 --> 00:48:03.039
back in that sense of mystery. And yeah, I'd

00:48:03.039 --> 00:48:06.860
say mystery to the movie. Now, this was a two

00:48:06.860 --> 00:48:10.480
-hour version. Like that full entirety of that

00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:13.280
print no longer exists. But there's a shorter

00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:16.119
version. I don't even know where that footage

00:48:16.119 --> 00:48:20.139
went. But that 1925 print is available today.

00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:24.199
And this is the one that stuck. So in September

00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:29.320
1925, Universal had a smash on their hands with

00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:33.039
The Phantom of the Opera. Now four years go by

00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:38.599
and we have... the use and innovation of talking

00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:42.639
movies with the synchronization of sound so universal

00:48:42.639 --> 00:48:45.599
to capitalize on this and a lot of studios well

00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:49.260
like all the studios did while they were making

00:48:49.260 --> 00:48:52.260
new movie new talkies they went back into their

00:48:52.260 --> 00:48:55.539
catalog for their hits to add synchronized sound

00:48:55.539 --> 00:48:58.599
a lot of these were just adding sound effects

00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:02.420
or music nothing too difficult for them to do

00:49:03.739 --> 00:49:07.059
But Universal did that and added some voices

00:49:07.059 --> 00:49:12.079
like Mary Philbin's and Norman Carey's. So they

00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:14.800
came back into the studio to dub some lines.

00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:19.019
Lon Chaney, however, at this time was on contract

00:49:19.019 --> 00:49:22.920
with MGM. So it's really unfortunate that he

00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:27.559
does not lend his voice to this new 1929 talkie

00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:33.010
version. It kind of is a moot point anyways because,

00:49:33.110 --> 00:49:37.230
again, like a lot of silent films, much of this

00:49:37.230 --> 00:49:41.269
talky version is lost to history. There are,

00:49:41.369 --> 00:49:45.429
again, snippets that do exist. I, for example,

00:49:45.530 --> 00:49:47.889
like I have the Kino Lorber Blu -ray edition

00:49:47.889 --> 00:49:52.929
and on the bonus features, you can listen, you

00:49:52.929 --> 00:49:56.210
can watch the 1929 version with whatever sound

00:49:56.210 --> 00:49:59.820
is still left. So it's kind of a... really interesting

00:49:59.820 --> 00:50:04.159
watch, but nothing like truly fundamentally different.

00:50:05.219 --> 00:50:09.679
So yeah, just a cool, complicated, historically

00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:13.239
interesting production history there and release.

00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:17.440
Yeah. And reason number like 4 ,000, why studios

00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:20.280
should not listen to audience previews or like

00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:22.800
audience preview cards. It's never a good idea

00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:25.320
that has mangled so many movies throughout the

00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:27.900
history of cinema. It makes no sense. They went

00:50:27.900 --> 00:50:30.559
back to Julian's more or less original version.

00:50:31.019 --> 00:50:34.920
Yeah. Ridiculous. Just closing out the production

00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:38.019
and release backstory here a little bit. Universal

00:50:38.019 --> 00:50:41.480
remade the film in 1943 with Claude Rains as

00:50:41.480 --> 00:50:43.739
the Phantom. I have not seen that. Have either

00:50:43.739 --> 00:50:46.920
of you guys seen that 1943 version? No, but it's

00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:49.599
in the Universal box set that I have. And I was

00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:52.199
surprised that they didn't go with the Lon Chaney

00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:54.599
one. Like I pulled that. I was like, oh, interesting.

00:50:54.900 --> 00:50:59.480
Okay. Yeah, that is surprising. It's something

00:50:59.480 --> 00:51:02.400
I've always noticed as a Universal horror fan.

00:51:02.920 --> 00:51:05.760
Like the Chaney version is never included in

00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:09.800
these box sets. I've seen the Claude Rains version.

00:51:10.519 --> 00:51:14.099
Watch it for yourselves. But it is... That's

00:51:14.099 --> 00:51:16.280
a ringing endorsement right there. Watch it for

00:51:16.280 --> 00:51:19.739
yourself. Ringing endorsement. Yeah. I'm speaking

00:51:19.739 --> 00:51:23.219
to critics here. We know the language of the

00:51:23.219 --> 00:51:28.579
trade. It's much heavier on the romance and the

00:51:28.579 --> 00:51:33.860
melodrama and the music than the horror. So it's...

00:51:33.860 --> 00:51:37.369
As a horror movie, it's not very effective. Well,

00:51:37.389 --> 00:51:39.289
maybe one reason it's not in that Universal box

00:51:39.289 --> 00:51:41.590
set is because Universal did not renew the copyright

00:51:41.590 --> 00:51:44.929
in 1953. The film has been popular and acclaimed

00:51:44.929 --> 00:51:47.650
ever since its release. The Face of the Phantom

00:51:47.650 --> 00:51:50.030
is ubiquitous in pop culture, tons of tributes

00:51:50.030 --> 00:51:51.610
and parodies over the years. Obviously, we've

00:51:51.610 --> 00:51:53.909
talked about some of them already on the podcast.

00:51:54.250 --> 00:51:56.889
And it features in a main attraction at Universal's

00:51:56.889 --> 00:51:59.369
Epic Universe theme park, which, Vincent, I'm

00:51:59.369 --> 00:52:00.989
sure you know well since you grew up in Orlando.

00:52:01.750 --> 00:52:03.869
I don't know this park, actually. It's just opened

00:52:03.869 --> 00:52:06.900
up in the past couple years. Ah. Well, their

00:52:06.900 --> 00:52:09.440
new park called Epic Universe, there's a section

00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:11.980
that's devoted entirely to the Universal Monsters.

00:52:12.340 --> 00:52:16.739
So I am dying, literally dying to get there.

00:52:17.139 --> 00:52:20.480
And their main ride is like a roller coaster

00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:23.320
through all the monsters. And the Phantom is

00:52:23.320 --> 00:52:27.320
there. I want to go. That sounds great. Yeah.

00:52:27.420 --> 00:52:30.840
So just being in touch with the merch and everything,

00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:34.059
Chaney's Phantom is kind of all over the place.

00:52:34.819 --> 00:52:38.300
Yeah. And just when you think about Phantom and

00:52:38.300 --> 00:52:41.940
the zeitgeist, I think you either think of the

00:52:41.940 --> 00:52:45.739
musical and that mask and that legacy or Lon

00:52:45.739 --> 00:52:49.920
Chaney's depiction and those images that are

00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:52.780
so ubiquitous to Phantom. I don't think about

00:52:52.780 --> 00:52:54.719
the Claude Rains one, because I haven't seen

00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:56.059
it. Maybe what I would see would be like, oh,

00:52:56.079 --> 00:53:00.159
I know that scene, but I doubt it. When I was

00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:02.599
watching this, I was like, oh yeah, these are

00:53:02.599 --> 00:53:06.900
the clips that I know of Phantom. yeah just last

00:53:06.900 --> 00:53:10.440
week in target you know they have a section of

00:53:10.440 --> 00:53:14.099
collectors toys and things and it's like in the

00:53:14.099 --> 00:53:17.699
back by the books and in a little like there's

00:53:17.699 --> 00:53:21.079
a little action figure of the phantom in his

00:53:21.079 --> 00:53:24.780
red death costume which i love with the the skull

00:53:24.780 --> 00:53:27.760
and the red robe and the feathered hat and it's

00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:31.440
like an action figure in target in 2025 i was

00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:35.869
like this is so awesome That's great. He lives.

00:53:37.469 --> 00:53:40.309
I listened to some of the sound snippets that

00:53:40.309 --> 00:53:42.150
you talked about, Vincent, on the Kino Lorber

00:53:42.150 --> 00:53:45.050
Blu -ray, because I borrowed that from you. It

00:53:45.050 --> 00:53:47.869
just kind of proves the point a little bit. This

00:53:47.869 --> 00:53:51.690
feels like it should be a silent movie. you know,

00:53:51.690 --> 00:53:54.650
hear even like certain scenes with sound to it

00:53:54.650 --> 00:53:56.510
just doesn't feel right. You know, I just feel

00:53:56.510 --> 00:53:59.090
like in our collective unconscious for people

00:53:59.090 --> 00:54:02.090
that care about movies or know this movie, like

00:54:02.090 --> 00:54:05.250
it's just, it's a foundational silent movie.

00:54:05.409 --> 00:54:07.869
You know what I mean? So that's just to prove

00:54:07.869 --> 00:54:09.849
the point that like it's really entrenched in

00:54:09.849 --> 00:54:13.949
our like national unconscious, I think. Yeah.

00:54:15.630 --> 00:54:17.769
Well, Matt, shall we get to our sponsor break?

00:54:18.170 --> 00:54:21.239
Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Hamkaiju is sponsored

00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:23.420
by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack, powered by

00:54:23.420 --> 00:54:25.960
Coldwell Banker Realty, your source for real

00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:28.739
estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor

00:54:28.739 --> 00:54:31.320
clients and residential buyers. Reach out to

00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:33.179
the Zach Pack today for real estate services.

00:54:33.440 --> 00:54:36.119
Follow the Zach Pack on social media and contact

00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:39.099
the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Link

00:54:39.099 --> 00:54:43.380
in the show notes. Matt, what do we have in old

00:54:43.380 --> 00:54:46.710
Minya's mailbox? Yeah, what do we have in Minya's

00:54:46.710 --> 00:54:49.429
mailbox? Minya's mailbox, as always, is brought

00:54:49.429 --> 00:54:51.989
to you by Patreon. If you become a patron, then

00:54:51.989 --> 00:54:55.530
your comments are tops. It looks like we have

00:54:55.530 --> 00:54:58.389
something about Space Amoeba in Minya's mailbox

00:54:58.389 --> 00:55:01.969
today. Yeah, a couple things about Space Amoeba,

00:55:01.969 --> 00:55:05.170
actually. Would you do the honors? Oh, sure.

00:55:05.230 --> 00:55:06.969
I didn't know if this was the entire thing, but...

00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:11.059
UV Rodriguez says, I love Saturn video and cafe.

00:55:11.480 --> 00:55:14.659
And that's a shout out. We had Saturn video and

00:55:14.659 --> 00:55:18.500
cafe on a recent episode. So yes, we love Saturn

00:55:18.500 --> 00:55:22.639
video as well. Yeah. And then Mark on Instagram

00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:25.119
left us comments about Space Amoeba as well.

00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:28.079
He said, just finished this one. Really liked

00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:30.420
this title. My favorite episodes are the ones

00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:32.619
which cover these more obscure titles. Great

00:55:32.619 --> 00:55:35.539
episode, guys. Thank you, Mark. We really appreciate

00:55:35.539 --> 00:55:38.349
it. I also love the title Space Amoeba and that

00:55:38.349 --> 00:55:42.070
movie. Glad you liked that episode. Yes. Thank

00:55:42.070 --> 00:55:44.849
you, Mark. Thank you, UV Rodriguez and everyone

00:55:44.849 --> 00:55:47.190
else listening. We actually have quite a few

00:55:47.190 --> 00:55:50.730
Space Amoeba comments that I'll just pepper throughout

00:55:50.730 --> 00:55:53.909
the upcoming episodes here. But this is a good

00:55:53.909 --> 00:55:56.010
opportunity to remind our listeners that coming

00:55:56.010 --> 00:56:00.010
up next on Camp Kaiju, we have 20 Million Miles

00:56:00.010 --> 00:56:02.969
to Earth, the Ray Harryhausen effects -driven

00:56:02.969 --> 00:56:06.989
sci -fi movie from the 50s. It's about an alien

00:56:06.989 --> 00:56:10.230
that crash lands on Earth and grows to gigantic

00:56:10.230 --> 00:56:13.070
proportions, of course. And we're hoping Naomi

00:56:13.070 --> 00:56:15.550
Osborne, friend of the pod, joins us for that

00:56:15.550 --> 00:56:18.909
one. But another friend of the pod is Mr. Peter

00:56:18.909 --> 00:56:23.969
Lorre. And he's going to cover a 1946 Aubrey

00:56:23.969 --> 00:56:28.590
Row film called The Brute Man. And as Letterboxd

00:56:28.590 --> 00:56:33.090
says, it is about a facially disfigured and mentally

00:56:33.090 --> 00:56:36.210
unhinged man. who wreaks his revenge on those

00:56:36.210 --> 00:56:39.090
he blames for his condition. That actually kind

00:56:39.090 --> 00:56:41.250
of sounds like the Phantom of the Opera. But

00:56:41.250 --> 00:56:46.849
I guess nothing is new in horror films. But I'll

00:56:46.849 --> 00:57:01.760
let Mr. Lurie take that one away. Welcome to

00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:05.400
the Poverty Row Studios on the other side of

00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:08.639
Hollywood, where the stars were dimmer and the

00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:12.199
red carpets dripped with blood. Together we will

00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:15.199
watch the best of the worst, all movies known

00:57:15.199 --> 00:57:18.519
for their limited budgets, their outlandish concepts,

00:57:18.760 --> 00:57:21.619
and questionable performances, but with enough

00:57:21.619 --> 00:57:25.840
haunted houses, zombies, ape men, and devil bats

00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:29.570
to keep you up at night. Yes. Is the poverty

00:57:29.570 --> 00:57:34.150
role picture show, and I dare you to sleep through

00:57:34.150 --> 00:57:42.989
these nightmares. Open here I flung the shutter,

00:57:43.130 --> 00:57:46.050
when, with many a flirt and flutter, in there

00:57:46.050 --> 00:57:49.050
stepped the stately raven of the saintly days

00:57:49.050 --> 00:57:53.809
of yore. Not the least obeisance made he, not

00:57:53.809 --> 00:57:57.139
a minute stopped or stayed he. but with mean

00:57:57.139 --> 00:58:00.639
of lord or lady perched above my chamber door,

00:58:00.900 --> 00:58:05.579
perched upon a bust of palace just above my chamber

00:58:05.579 --> 00:58:10.420
door, perched and sat and nothing more. Oh, oh,

00:58:10.420 --> 00:58:14.159
you startled me, listeners. Oh, well, will you

00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:18.880
excuse me while I close my Edgar Allan Poe's

00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:24.340
copy of The Raven? Yes, it is. It is not so bizarre

00:58:24.340 --> 00:58:27.199
a thing for a man to do alone in the basement

00:58:27.199 --> 00:58:32.000
of his home. Sorry, Vincent's home. No, no, no,

00:58:32.099 --> 00:58:35.280
dear listeners. I swear this is just a book.

00:58:35.380 --> 00:58:39.820
A little velvet cover with a little bookmark.

00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:43.219
But I digress. I would like to tell you that

00:58:43.219 --> 00:58:45.920
I was in the movie called The Raven for Roger

00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:48.599
Corman. Yes, dear listeners. So it all makes

00:58:48.599 --> 00:58:55.460
sense now. Well, okay, here we go. Tonight on

00:58:55.460 --> 00:58:58.039
the Poverty Row Picture Show, we will discuss

00:58:58.039 --> 00:59:03.260
the 1944 movie The Brute Man, starring Rondo

00:59:03.260 --> 00:59:07.960
Hatton as The Creeper. Yes, The Creeper is a

00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:11.079
back -breaking psychomaniac from a series of

00:59:11.079 --> 00:59:15.440
universal horror chillers in the 40s. Now, the

00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:19.079
actor, Rondo Hatton, was a man who suffered from

00:59:19.079 --> 00:59:22.460
acromagaly in real life. This is the glandular

00:59:22.460 --> 00:59:25.260
disorder that enlarges the face and the limbs.

00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:30.380
And for better or worse, Hatton puts his mean

00:59:30.380 --> 00:59:33.360
mug to work for Hollywood. At the Universal,

00:59:33.679 --> 00:59:36.960
his creeper character was featured in The Pearl

00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:40.260
of Death, House of Horrors, and The Brute Man.

00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:43.619
This latter picture would prove Hatton's swan

00:59:43.619 --> 00:59:47.769
song, sadly. The actor died from his acromagaly

00:59:47.769 --> 00:59:50.809
six months before the release of the film itself.

00:59:51.829 --> 00:59:54.989
Fittingly, the movie The Brute Man treats the

00:59:54.989 --> 00:59:58.650
Creeper with a newfound sense of sympathy. I

00:59:58.650 --> 01:00:01.969
mean, his crimes, as heinous as they are, you

01:00:01.969 --> 01:00:04.429
can't help but feel for the guy. He's just a

01:00:04.429 --> 01:00:08.750
serial murderer who's just misunderstood. Lastly,

01:00:08.849 --> 01:00:11.190
it should be noted that the film was produced

01:00:11.190 --> 01:00:14.860
by Universal Studios. and sold to the poverty

01:00:14.860 --> 01:00:19.079
row company PRC for distribution. At this time

01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:23.260
in 1944, Universal was on the verge of a merge

01:00:23.260 --> 01:00:25.920
with International Pictures, so they were kind

01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:28.800
of dumping all their B -movies off on the smaller

01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:32.460
studios in favor of more, quote, prestige productions.

01:00:33.019 --> 01:00:36.920
Yes, yes, well, well, well, well, be that as

01:00:36.920 --> 01:00:39.539
it may, next time we will get back to scraping

01:00:39.539 --> 01:00:42.730
the bottom of the B -barrel. with Return of the

01:00:42.730 --> 01:00:46.630
Ape Man, starring Bela Lugosi and John Carradine.

01:00:47.050 --> 01:00:50.409
Oh, oh, oh my goodness, listeners, what is, what

01:00:50.409 --> 01:00:53.269
is this outside my window? It is, it is a winged

01:00:53.269 --> 01:00:56.429
creature of the night. Oh my goodness, it is,

01:00:56.550 --> 01:01:00.329
it is a, it is a raven, a raven tapping at my

01:01:00.329 --> 01:01:12.019
window. 20th Century Fox presents Phantom of

01:01:12.019 --> 01:01:17.739
the Paradise, a gothic horror story. What was

01:01:17.739 --> 01:01:28.000
that? A beautiful love story. A cinematic odyssey

01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:35.599
through the rock universe. From grease to glitter.

01:01:35.619 --> 01:01:47.710
Wow! and beyond the story of a sound the man

01:01:47.710 --> 01:01:52.590
who created it the girl who sang it the monster

01:01:52.590 --> 01:01:56.789
who stole it and the phantom who haunts the paradise

01:01:56.789 --> 01:02:10.550
the ultimate rock palace Of the Paradise. My

01:02:10.550 --> 01:02:13.989
music is for Phoenix. Only she can sing it. Anyone

01:02:13.989 --> 01:02:17.929
else that tries dies. Phoenix. Phoenix. Well,

01:02:17.969 --> 01:02:21.289
you told me one time that you'd be somebody that

01:02:21.289 --> 01:02:27.690
you weren't working just to survive. Beat. Man,

01:02:30.449 --> 01:02:32.469
you better get yourself a castrato for this.

01:02:32.510 --> 01:02:40.619
Paul Williams as Swan. I want you to stop terrorizing

01:02:40.619 --> 01:02:42.880
the Paradise and rewrite your cantata. And the

01:02:42.880 --> 01:02:46.440
Phantom. Well, stop and try me, or you might

01:02:46.440 --> 01:03:06.340
satisfy me. Phantom of the Paradise. There really

01:03:06.340 --> 01:03:12.329
is the Phantom. All right. Back to Phantom. Back

01:03:12.329 --> 01:03:16.230
to Eric doing, doing diabolical things in his

01:03:16.230 --> 01:03:19.030
lair. I mean, one of the things I actually love

01:03:19.030 --> 01:03:21.150
about the movie is I feel like it embraces the

01:03:21.150 --> 01:03:24.010
camp. It embraces how over the top and ridiculous

01:03:24.010 --> 01:03:27.630
it all is. I mean, and maybe that wasn't the

01:03:27.630 --> 01:03:30.440
intent at the time, but I feel like it. It is

01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:32.639
that way, unlike the musical, which takes itself

01:03:32.639 --> 01:03:36.260
so seriously, that there was something I enjoyed

01:03:36.260 --> 01:03:39.699
about the movie. And in that kind of vein of

01:03:39.699 --> 01:03:43.119
things, I thought it was great. It's heightened

01:03:43.119 --> 01:03:46.340
stakes from the very beginning. I mean, the notes

01:03:46.340 --> 01:03:49.079
that the Phantom leaves regarding Carlotta and

01:03:49.079 --> 01:03:51.460
Christine and how he's going to make sure that

01:03:51.460 --> 01:03:53.420
Carlotta doesn't sing and it's going to be Christine

01:03:53.420 --> 01:03:56.260
doing the role. It's all just so much from the

01:03:56.260 --> 01:03:59.260
very beginning. I loved it. I think Lon Chaney

01:03:59.260 --> 01:04:01.980
definitely understands the role, understands

01:04:01.980 --> 01:04:06.260
the assignment. Of course, he's heartbreakingly

01:04:06.260 --> 01:04:10.639
poignant in so much of it. But also when the

01:04:10.639 --> 01:04:13.800
moment comes for him to be a little dastardly,

01:04:13.800 --> 01:04:16.139
he knows how to do that. He knows how to put

01:04:16.139 --> 01:04:20.079
his hand through the door. He does a lot of great

01:04:20.079 --> 01:04:23.019
hand acting in this movie, too. He flicks the

01:04:23.019 --> 01:04:27.900
letter on the desk. He knows when to dial it

01:04:27.900 --> 01:04:30.099
up, dial up the physicality and the hamminess.

01:04:30.780 --> 01:04:35.539
It's pretty good. During the unmasking, if you

01:04:35.539 --> 01:04:39.079
will, I couldn't help but think about Norma Desmond's

01:04:39.079 --> 01:04:40.980
classic line in Sunset Boulevard where she said,

01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:45.340
we didn't need dialogue, we had faces. It's so

01:04:45.340 --> 01:04:48.699
perfect for the silent era, and especially this

01:04:48.699 --> 01:04:51.059
movie. You don't need any dialogue in this. You

01:04:51.059 --> 01:04:53.920
don't need music in it. You get everything that

01:04:53.920 --> 01:04:56.199
Lon Chaney is doing and what he's... Doing with

01:04:56.199 --> 01:05:00.539
his face. And it's perfect. Another Sunset Boulevard.

01:05:00.579 --> 01:05:02.480
Sorry, Matt. I just want to drop in the Sunset

01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:06.500
Boulevard connection to this movie. So in The

01:05:06.500 --> 01:05:10.079
Phantom's Lair, he lays Christine on this bed

01:05:10.079 --> 01:05:14.380
that's shaped like a boat. That exact bed set

01:05:14.380 --> 01:05:18.000
dressing is used in Sunset Boulevard. I didn't

01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:21.039
know that. Yeah. Wow. And Angeloid Webber also

01:05:21.039 --> 01:05:24.690
did the musical Sunset Boulevard. And. Buster

01:05:24.690 --> 01:05:27.489
Keaton's in Sunset Boulevard. The movie. So bring

01:05:27.489 --> 01:05:30.309
it all around. It's so good. Sunset Boulevard.

01:05:30.349 --> 01:05:31.869
God, we could do a whole episode on that too.

01:05:32.269 --> 01:05:34.570
Anyway. Love that movie. There's also the line

01:05:34.570 --> 01:05:36.849
in Sunset Boulevard where Norma Desmond said

01:05:36.849 --> 01:05:39.429
the pictures, it was the pictures that got small,

01:05:39.550 --> 01:05:41.989
you know? And I feel like that also relates to

01:05:41.989 --> 01:05:43.849
Phantom of the Opera. Like this is a huge movie.

01:05:44.070 --> 01:05:46.969
And like, I just feel like, you know, then talkies

01:05:46.969 --> 01:05:48.949
came about and, you know, of course there were

01:05:48.949 --> 01:05:51.550
epic movies made after that. But like, I think

01:05:51.550 --> 01:05:53.550
just like the stature of Phantom of the Opera

01:05:53.550 --> 01:05:55.909
and some of these silent epics, maybe Hollywood

01:05:55.909 --> 01:05:59.050
never got back to that point, you know? I am

01:05:59.050 --> 01:06:01.380
big. It's the pictures that got small. Yeah,

01:06:01.400 --> 01:06:05.239
exactly. Spoiler alert. I really love this movie.

01:06:05.360 --> 01:06:07.619
It's really like I was blown away watching it

01:06:07.619 --> 01:06:09.079
this time because like I said before, it had

01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:10.659
been like more than 20 years since I had seen

01:06:10.659 --> 01:06:13.099
it. And it definitely does have that camp element.

01:06:13.199 --> 01:06:15.780
I think Chaney, you know, he does bring the camp,

01:06:15.820 --> 01:06:18.730
but he also brings the pathos. To me, this is

01:06:18.730 --> 01:06:21.489
kind of like a foundational horror movie for

01:06:21.489 --> 01:06:24.349
American cinema, in my opinion. There were American

01:06:24.349 --> 01:06:26.190
horror movies before this, but I feel like in

01:06:26.190 --> 01:06:28.929
some ways it all goes back to this. The success

01:06:28.929 --> 01:06:31.070
of this movie led to all those universal monster

01:06:31.070 --> 01:06:33.409
movies like Dracula, Frankenstein, The Mummy,

01:06:33.510 --> 01:06:36.210
The Invisible Man, so on and so forth. There's

01:06:36.210 --> 01:06:38.610
a direct lineage from this movie to those movies.

01:06:38.949 --> 01:06:42.719
And even watching this time, I was like... The

01:06:42.719 --> 01:06:45.280
Phantom kind of seems like this could be like

01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:48.639
Saw. I hate the Saw movies. I'm not saying that's

01:06:48.639 --> 01:06:51.820
a great comparison or a great compliment to Phantom

01:06:51.820 --> 01:06:54.820
of the Opera, but the torture chambers that The

01:06:54.820 --> 01:06:56.960
Phantom has underneath the Paris Opera House.

01:06:58.000 --> 01:07:01.679
or at least attempted murder by drowning and

01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:04.860
hanging and dropping chandeliers. This is a slasher

01:07:04.860 --> 01:07:07.860
movie, you know? Like 60 years or whatever before

01:07:07.860 --> 01:07:10.619
slasher movies really became a popular genre.

01:07:11.079 --> 01:07:13.880
So as a horror lover, I have to give this movie

01:07:13.880 --> 01:07:17.480
so many props. I feel like it is a prototypical

01:07:17.480 --> 01:07:20.659
text for that genre. I think it looks amazing.

01:07:20.760 --> 01:07:24.039
Again, the sets and that two -strip Technicolor

01:07:24.039 --> 01:07:27.019
process. It just looks amazing. And you can tell

01:07:27.019 --> 01:07:28.820
from the very first shot of the movie, which

01:07:28.820 --> 01:07:32.460
is bright red and seems to be in a subterranean

01:07:32.460 --> 01:07:35.159
layer of some kind. And all you see is shadows

01:07:35.159 --> 01:07:38.260
and silhouettes at first. It just feels different.

01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:41.119
And I can imagine being an audience member in

01:07:41.119 --> 01:07:44.360
1925, I understand why this was so successful.

01:07:44.780 --> 01:07:49.519
It must have been scary and over the top, of

01:07:49.519 --> 01:07:51.840
course, and really huge, really entertaining.

01:07:52.719 --> 01:07:55.260
And I still feel that way about this movie. So,

01:07:55.340 --> 01:07:58.260
you know, it has its flaws, which we'll get to

01:07:58.260 --> 01:08:00.940
in a minute. But, like, I really love it. I can't

01:08:00.940 --> 01:08:03.239
say enough good things about this movie. I'm

01:08:03.239 --> 01:08:07.980
glad you brought up the element of how psycho

01:08:07.980 --> 01:08:10.760
the Phantom is with his torture chamber. And

01:08:10.760 --> 01:08:13.800
that's why that's so campy to me, too. It's like,

01:08:13.800 --> 01:08:16.819
is this a Bond villain in a 1920s horror movie?

01:08:17.659 --> 01:08:20.619
But the Phantom's mask in this one, I'd love

01:08:20.619 --> 01:08:23.500
to hear your guys' thoughts on this. But the

01:08:23.500 --> 01:08:26.640
mask is so creepy to me. It feels like a modern

01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:28.960
horror mask where they try to be all like baby

01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:32.319
-like or cute and animal -like. But his mask

01:08:32.319 --> 01:08:34.859
in this, it's got those round features. It's

01:08:34.859 --> 01:08:37.520
very baby -like. And it just has that vacant

01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:43.640
stare. That is just, oh, it's haunting. I think

01:08:43.640 --> 01:08:46.220
sometimes the lack of personality in a mask.

01:08:46.860 --> 01:08:49.659
gives the actor more to do with it you know then

01:08:49.659 --> 01:08:52.079
then the rest of the face can show off or the

01:08:52.079 --> 01:08:56.100
the angle of the body can kind of hone in on

01:08:56.100 --> 01:08:58.520
how it looks at one angle versus another angle

01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:00.260
where if you put too many features into a mask

01:09:00.260 --> 01:09:02.859
that's all it is it's just like one thing or

01:09:02.859 --> 01:09:04.460
if you make it a little bit more of a blank slate

01:09:04.460 --> 01:09:06.819
then the actor can really play with that in multiple

01:09:06.819 --> 01:09:10.180
ways you know i was thinking about this that

01:09:10.180 --> 01:09:12.340
when i was watching at the cut the red death

01:09:12.340 --> 01:09:15.340
costume during the masquerade is the exact same

01:09:15.340 --> 01:09:17.359
one in the musical so i kind of love that the

01:09:17.359 --> 01:09:20.600
musical really took the look of this movie as

01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:22.760
kind of an homage for what they were going for

01:09:22.760 --> 01:09:24.840
in the musical it was a great callback to the

01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:28.140
movie is what they did with that costume yeah

01:09:28.140 --> 01:09:33.619
i love that costume it's just so epic and he's

01:09:33.619 --> 01:09:36.539
the best dressed person in that building that

01:09:36.539 --> 01:09:40.539
whole scene looks incredible i love that uh that

01:09:40.539 --> 01:09:44.409
ball sequence And with the mask, it does look

01:09:44.409 --> 01:09:46.909
baby -like. I think you can see the eyes moving

01:09:46.909 --> 01:09:49.149
just barely within the eye holes or whatever.

01:09:49.430 --> 01:09:51.170
And maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I

01:09:51.170 --> 01:09:54.310
just feel like that... The mask, you can read

01:09:54.310 --> 01:09:56.090
anything into it because it's so minimalistic.

01:09:56.189 --> 01:09:58.149
And I think you read, or at least I read, a lot

01:09:58.149 --> 01:10:01.510
of pain into it. And the Phantom just wants to

01:10:01.510 --> 01:10:03.369
be loved. That's basically what the character

01:10:03.369 --> 01:10:06.470
is. And he obviously expresses that in the most

01:10:06.470 --> 01:10:09.930
demented ways possible. But again, I think...

01:10:10.119 --> 01:10:12.880
Chaney and that mask do a good job of conveying

01:10:12.880 --> 01:10:15.880
that pain and that loneliness you know in a very

01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:17.560
I'm looking at it I'm looking at it right now

01:10:17.560 --> 01:10:21.159
and it's yeah very kind of baby like in porcelain

01:10:21.159 --> 01:10:25.520
in a way yeah yeah I'm just gonna dive in I'm

01:10:25.520 --> 01:10:27.479
just gonna pull in a theme here too because I

01:10:27.479 --> 01:10:30.220
think we can wrap that up into our like our our

01:10:30.220 --> 01:10:32.960
good stuff too if you have any themes you want

01:10:32.960 --> 01:10:35.739
to shout out with this movie but this goes back

01:10:35.739 --> 01:10:39.199
to David J. Scull he's a horror writer author

01:10:39.930 --> 01:10:43.869
movie reviewer and in his text the monster show

01:10:43.869 --> 01:10:49.270
he argues that the phantom of the opera is indicative

01:10:49.270 --> 01:10:52.989
of returning veterans from world war one in the

01:10:52.989 --> 01:10:56.850
1920s where you had so many survivors and because

01:10:56.850 --> 01:10:59.529
of advancements in modern medicine they were

01:10:59.529 --> 01:11:03.270
surviving despite facial disfigurements and and

01:11:03.270 --> 01:11:06.710
limb disfigurements so a lot of people in society

01:11:06.710 --> 01:11:11.590
were wearing masks of porcelain to hide their

01:11:11.590 --> 01:11:16.869
their faces so skull ties the phantom's appearance

01:11:16.869 --> 01:11:21.149
and the theme of painful loneliness and being

01:11:21.149 --> 01:11:24.930
the outcast to returning vets i think there's

01:11:24.930 --> 01:11:27.489
something to that and then just to tie this back

01:11:27.489 --> 01:11:30.529
into freaks matt we just watched it's that same

01:11:30.529 --> 01:11:34.350
theme of the disfigured among us to for lack

01:11:34.350 --> 01:11:38.409
of a better term the disabled among us and how

01:11:38.409 --> 01:11:42.430
society pushes them to the margins and that can

01:11:42.430 --> 01:11:46.170
cause a lot of pain in in those communities i

01:11:46.170 --> 01:11:48.630
mean one of the best lines in the movie i wrote

01:11:48.630 --> 01:11:51.590
down if i am the phantom it is because man's

01:11:51.590 --> 01:11:55.010
hatred has made me so you know what are we doing

01:11:55.010 --> 01:11:57.270
to our marginalized communities if we continue

01:11:57.270 --> 01:12:00.029
to villainize them so much you know what does

01:12:00.029 --> 01:12:04.590
that do after a while yeah there's a psychological

01:12:04.590 --> 01:12:07.520
element here that adds to the horror and adds

01:12:07.520 --> 01:12:09.600
to maybe the realness of where the character

01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:14.539
comes from. Yeah, definitely. I think Chaney's

01:12:14.539 --> 01:12:18.880
performance brings that element out. I think

01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:21.619
in lesser hands, it would just be a very one

01:12:21.619 --> 01:12:25.720
-note psychological killer down in the basement.

01:12:26.260 --> 01:12:29.239
But I think Chaney does a lot of heavy lifting

01:12:29.239 --> 01:12:32.359
to bring out that pathos. Well, I would maybe

01:12:32.359 --> 01:12:34.500
bring up a theme that could also act as a segue

01:12:34.500 --> 01:12:36.739
to a criticism of the movie if we want to move

01:12:36.739 --> 01:12:38.979
into some of the bad stuff about the film. But,

01:12:38.979 --> 01:12:42.640
you know, I think it's kind of about the lengths

01:12:42.640 --> 01:12:46.560
that you'll go to to achieve stardom, to like

01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:48.600
become a great artist. We definitely see that

01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:52.229
with Christine, I think. My criticism of the

01:12:52.229 --> 01:12:54.529
movie is that that could be fleshed out a lot

01:12:54.529 --> 01:12:56.470
more. That definitely is fleshed out more in

01:12:56.470 --> 01:12:58.850
the novel, as well as in some of the initial

01:12:58.850 --> 01:13:01.029
treatments of this film that were then left on

01:13:01.029 --> 01:13:05.130
the cutting room floor. But Christine, she has

01:13:05.130 --> 01:13:07.890
a backstory where her dad was a musician who

01:13:07.890 --> 01:13:11.930
died at an early age, but supposedly told her

01:13:11.930 --> 01:13:14.369
about the angel of music who would come to her

01:13:14.369 --> 01:13:16.989
and teach her how to be this great singer. So

01:13:16.989 --> 01:13:19.350
it makes a little bit more sense that... she

01:13:19.350 --> 01:13:21.550
would believe that the Phantom is like this benevolent

01:13:21.550 --> 01:13:23.590
figure and she would kind of just eagerly go

01:13:23.590 --> 01:13:25.989
along with him, you know? That was cut from the

01:13:25.989 --> 01:13:27.829
film and it's like kind of hard to buy that she

01:13:27.829 --> 01:13:31.170
would just like... He kind of abducts her, but

01:13:31.170 --> 01:13:33.289
she very willingly goes along with him, you know?

01:13:33.470 --> 01:13:35.689
And I think if some of that stuff was retained,

01:13:35.869 --> 01:13:37.510
then the character of Christine would be a lot

01:13:37.510 --> 01:13:40.949
more dynamic, a lot more relatable and empathetic.

01:13:41.569 --> 01:13:44.050
But I still do think that theme is there, of

01:13:44.050 --> 01:13:46.329
like, she wants to be this great singer, and

01:13:46.329 --> 01:13:48.189
she will do anything it takes to achieve that.

01:13:48.350 --> 01:13:50.189
You know, if I can bring in Phantom of the Paradise

01:13:50.189 --> 01:13:52.590
again, that theme is conveyed a lot more in that

01:13:52.590 --> 01:13:55.579
movie. But it's here, and I think... You know,

01:13:55.600 --> 01:13:57.199
we see that a little bit with the Phantom too.

01:13:57.300 --> 01:14:00.920
Like we don't necessarily, he's not like an artist

01:14:00.920 --> 01:14:02.899
or anything, but he obviously goes to extreme

01:14:02.899 --> 01:14:04.880
lengths to like get the woman he loves to like

01:14:04.880 --> 01:14:08.220
very, you know, psychotic degree. So, so just

01:14:08.220 --> 01:14:10.979
that theme of like the extreme lengths that humans

01:14:10.979 --> 01:14:13.779
will go to, to achieve their dreams and sort

01:14:13.779 --> 01:14:17.060
of like, obviously negative, like very distorted

01:14:17.060 --> 01:14:19.819
and grotesque fashion is definitely in this movie.

01:14:21.399 --> 01:14:24.279
For sure. And I think, you know, you watch it

01:14:24.279 --> 01:14:25.800
and you're like, oh, God, the story is so dated.

01:14:25.939 --> 01:14:27.899
Oh, it's kind of, like, cringe -worthy. But,

01:14:27.979 --> 01:14:31.239
I mean, it's not like it's made in 2025, you

01:14:31.239 --> 01:14:34.399
know. And we can look at it with a very different

01:14:34.399 --> 01:14:38.260
angle for the time and how you, you know, think

01:14:38.260 --> 01:14:40.640
about maybe someone luring someone, you know.

01:14:41.239 --> 01:14:44.020
I don't know. I've not read the book, so I can't

01:14:44.020 --> 01:14:45.920
necessarily compare one to the other or, like,

01:14:45.920 --> 01:14:47.220
how it's fleshed out. But it's fascinating to

01:14:47.220 --> 01:14:49.079
kind of hear that angle of Christine and the

01:14:49.079 --> 01:14:52.689
backstory that is kind of needed. yeah i wish

01:14:52.689 --> 01:14:54.050
it had been in the movie that definitely would

01:14:54.050 --> 01:14:57.229
have added a much deeper element i think that's

01:14:57.229 --> 01:15:00.829
my main criticism of the film is well it's a

01:15:00.829 --> 01:15:04.010
criticism in just like it's a dated element you

01:15:04.010 --> 01:15:07.090
know i can i critique society a hundred years

01:15:07.090 --> 01:15:11.449
ago sure but like that well what what weight

01:15:11.449 --> 01:15:16.350
does that hold i guess my point is the relationship

01:15:16.350 --> 01:15:19.890
and how the men treat Christine is just very

01:15:19.890 --> 01:15:23.449
paternal and very, like, I'm the protector. And

01:15:23.449 --> 01:15:28.069
her and Raul's relationship, their characters

01:15:28.069 --> 01:15:32.590
are very one note. You know, he's the man, the

01:15:32.590 --> 01:15:37.210
suave, you know, swashbuckler. And she's the

01:15:37.210 --> 01:15:40.229
ingenue. And they're playing their archetypes.

01:15:40.510 --> 01:15:43.909
They are characterizations we see even today.

01:15:44.029 --> 01:15:47.840
But they're just so simple in this movie. That

01:15:47.840 --> 01:15:49.600
Matt, to your point, it's like, yeah, why does

01:15:49.600 --> 01:15:53.600
she, why, why does Christine go the length she

01:15:53.600 --> 01:15:58.880
goes to, to be abducted? But then Christine makes

01:15:58.880 --> 01:16:00.920
me laugh in this movie so much because she does

01:16:00.920 --> 01:16:04.260
these things and then regrets them, but then

01:16:04.260 --> 01:16:08.060
goes back and does it again. Seemingly. It's

01:16:08.060 --> 01:16:11.000
like, she's got a little bit of like the input,

01:16:11.020 --> 01:16:13.619
the perverse when she wants to like pull the

01:16:13.619 --> 01:16:16.920
phantom's mask. And you see that he's like, don't,

01:16:17.340 --> 01:16:19.659
do anything you want, but do not touch my mask.

01:16:19.800 --> 01:16:23.100
And then she touches his mask. It's like the

01:16:23.100 --> 01:16:25.199
first thing she does in his lair. It's like,

01:16:25.220 --> 01:16:28.680
yeah, probably not a good idea. And it breaks

01:16:28.680 --> 01:16:31.060
his heart. And this isn't a criticism anymore.

01:16:31.159 --> 01:16:33.399
I'm just like going on about that scene and kind

01:16:33.399 --> 01:16:38.500
of how, how campy that is. And yeah, she, she

01:16:38.500 --> 01:16:40.920
has, it's a, actually maybe it's an ironically

01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:43.520
complicated relationship she has with the phantom.

01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:46.600
Cause it's like, will she, won't she? I don't

01:16:46.600 --> 01:16:48.739
know, Christine, what, what is going through

01:16:48.739 --> 01:16:51.300
your mind right now? It's impossible to know

01:16:51.300 --> 01:16:54.239
in this movie. And like, I feel like that's also

01:16:54.239 --> 01:16:58.279
true of the, the Persian character who is, that's

01:16:58.279 --> 01:17:00.000
how he's referred in some of the titles. And

01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:03.020
like, you know, he, I mean, again, like there

01:17:03.020 --> 01:17:04.539
was an earlier version of the film where like,

01:17:04.539 --> 01:17:06.920
it goes more into the backstory where like Eric,

01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:11.720
the phantom was in. I think it just says Persia,

01:17:11.720 --> 01:17:13.699
which I guess would have been Iran at the time,

01:17:13.720 --> 01:17:15.199
but it doesn't really go into too much detail

01:17:15.199 --> 01:17:18.329
about that. Devil's Island? In the actual film,

01:17:18.390 --> 01:17:20.430
I think it says Devil's Island, but in an earlier

01:17:20.430 --> 01:17:22.090
treatment of the film, it goes into more of the

01:17:22.090 --> 01:17:26.909
backstory of how Eric got disfigured in Persia,

01:17:26.909 --> 01:17:28.649
and that's how he knew the Persian character.

01:17:28.989 --> 01:17:31.170
But then in the finished version of the film,

01:17:31.350 --> 01:17:33.510
that character is kind of just a member of the

01:17:33.510 --> 01:17:35.350
French secret police, but he's still referred

01:17:35.350 --> 01:17:37.270
to as the Persian, I'm fairly certain. So it's

01:17:37.270 --> 01:17:39.409
like, who is this character? Why is there this

01:17:39.409 --> 01:17:42.829
kind of weird cultural exoticism? That's another

01:17:42.829 --> 01:17:44.649
flaw of the movie, for sure, where that character

01:17:44.649 --> 01:17:47.500
just kind of seems... there to push the story

01:17:47.500 --> 01:17:49.640
along to like awkwardly provide exposition you

01:17:49.640 --> 01:17:52.500
know he's a bit of a red herring at first i think

01:17:52.500 --> 01:17:54.460
i think the movie wants us to think oh he's the

01:17:54.460 --> 01:17:57.640
phantom and but he's just standing around like

01:17:57.640 --> 01:18:01.579
uh i just happen to be darker skinned and you're

01:18:01.579 --> 01:18:04.659
all looking at me like like i did something wrong

01:18:04.659 --> 01:18:08.840
right and if that had been intentional that might

01:18:08.840 --> 01:18:10.500
have been interesting but in the in the finished

01:18:10.500 --> 01:18:12.340
version of the film it's like the what what is

01:18:12.340 --> 01:18:14.079
going on here you know nothing seems intentional

01:18:14.079 --> 01:18:18.510
about this Right, right. So yeah, story -wise,

01:18:18.609 --> 01:18:20.250
there are some flaws here. That would be the

01:18:20.250 --> 01:18:22.850
bulk of my bad category for this movie. Yeah.

01:18:23.649 --> 01:18:26.569
You wouldn't set a story like this in 2025. That

01:18:26.569 --> 01:18:29.109
would be my point. But when you kind of turn

01:18:29.109 --> 01:18:33.630
that off, and maybe focus on the psychological

01:18:33.630 --> 01:18:36.369
element that we've been talking about, I think

01:18:36.369 --> 01:18:40.310
it works. I've never been a fan of this story.

01:18:40.449 --> 01:18:43.909
I actually really like the movie. But the story

01:18:43.909 --> 01:18:46.250
itself is not one that I, like, clamor over.

01:18:46.350 --> 01:18:48.130
And maybe it's because I'm just so used to the

01:18:48.130 --> 01:18:51.630
musical that I don't necessarily care for. That

01:18:51.630 --> 01:18:53.989
it's like, oh, it's, you know. But I want to

01:18:53.989 --> 01:18:55.289
watch the movie again. I actually would love

01:18:55.289 --> 01:18:58.369
to buy the Kino Lorber version of this and see

01:18:58.369 --> 01:19:00.550
these different, you know, cuts and hear some

01:19:00.550 --> 01:19:02.949
of the audio from it. Just to hear what it'd

01:19:02.949 --> 01:19:05.930
be like. But I enjoyed the movie. Like, I'd give

01:19:05.930 --> 01:19:07.869
it, I think I gave it four out of five on Letterboxd

01:19:07.869 --> 01:19:10.909
if I haven't written that already. But Lon Chaney's

01:19:10.909 --> 01:19:15.439
great. You know, like I think it's a great exercise

01:19:15.439 --> 01:19:19.100
in silent film acting. And I love looking at

01:19:19.100 --> 01:19:20.920
the silent era and what does that mean for film

01:19:20.920 --> 01:19:23.960
and thinking about archiving these types of movies

01:19:23.960 --> 01:19:25.560
and how do they stand the test of time? And I

01:19:25.560 --> 01:19:28.220
think they do. And especially this one, it's

01:19:28.220 --> 01:19:30.520
a good, it's thinking about the Paris opera house.

01:19:31.180 --> 01:19:34.340
Yeah. It's, it's just a, it's a great, a great

01:19:34.340 --> 01:19:38.260
piece of its element in time. I don't know. Yeah.

01:19:39.279 --> 01:19:41.850
The moment. in this movie that made me fall in

01:19:41.850 --> 01:19:43.649
love with it. Years ago, I was watching it in

01:19:43.649 --> 01:19:46.050
bed on my phone. Again, I just found it on YouTube

01:19:46.050 --> 01:19:47.850
and I was like, it's about time I watch Phantom.

01:19:48.329 --> 01:19:51.649
But the moment I fell in love with it was on

01:19:51.649 --> 01:19:54.789
the scene on the top of the roof, on the top

01:19:54.789 --> 01:19:58.189
of the opera house. It's after the masquerade

01:19:58.189 --> 01:20:03.250
ball and Christine is with Raul and she's saying,

01:20:03.369 --> 01:20:05.770
and she's going behind the Phantom's back. He

01:20:05.770 --> 01:20:08.270
said, I will release you as long as you never

01:20:08.270 --> 01:20:10.729
see Raul again. Well, of course, Christine does

01:20:10.729 --> 01:20:13.050
exactly what she's told not to do. And she's

01:20:13.050 --> 01:20:15.329
talking to Raul about getting me out of here.

01:20:15.829 --> 01:20:19.970
And unbeknownst to them, the phantom is above

01:20:19.970 --> 01:20:24.090
them eavesdropping. And he's in the thralls of

01:20:24.090 --> 01:20:29.350
pain and he's weeping. And he's like crying out

01:20:29.350 --> 01:20:32.829
into the night, but silently because Christine's

01:20:32.829 --> 01:20:35.390
below. And I was just like, this is one of those

01:20:35.390 --> 01:20:37.170
heartbreaking things I've ever seen in film.

01:20:37.770 --> 01:20:39.930
I love that scene. Then I ended up loving the

01:20:39.930 --> 01:20:43.789
movie. So, yeah, silent film acting. Lon Chaney

01:20:43.789 --> 01:20:48.250
really, like, he just had this magic that he

01:20:48.250 --> 01:20:52.869
brings to the screen. Yeah. Well, feel free to

01:20:52.869 --> 01:20:55.729
add anything else, you guys. But I think we can

01:20:55.729 --> 01:21:03.770
move on to our ratings, our final ratings. Matt,

01:21:03.869 --> 01:21:07.010
do you want to take us away? Yeah, for sure.

01:21:07.600 --> 01:21:10.239
So we have four ratings here on Camp Kaiju as

01:21:10.239 --> 01:21:12.779
always. Our highest rating is it's a timeless

01:21:12.779 --> 01:21:15.140
classic. It definitely stands the test of time.

01:21:15.399 --> 01:21:17.760
Our second rating, there may be some antiquated

01:21:17.760 --> 01:21:19.960
moments, but overall it's great. It stands the

01:21:19.960 --> 01:21:23.279
test of time. Our third rating, it may be historically

01:21:23.279 --> 01:21:25.840
significant or just fun, but it does not stand

01:21:25.840 --> 01:21:28.859
the test of time. And our lowest rating, it is

01:21:28.859 --> 01:21:31.279
not worth revisiting. It definitely does not

01:21:31.279 --> 01:21:36.930
stand the test of time. I'll go first. Just was

01:21:36.930 --> 01:21:40.449
like, I'll get me out of the way. I think going

01:21:40.449 --> 01:21:43.390
into this, I was thinking, you know, look, there

01:21:43.390 --> 01:21:46.149
are antiquated moments. It can't be helped. The

01:21:46.149 --> 01:21:50.470
movie's a century old. However, I just think

01:21:50.470 --> 01:21:53.189
this is one of those moments where the legacy

01:21:53.189 --> 01:21:57.590
of this film is so overwhelmingly impactful.

01:21:58.489 --> 01:22:04.340
In addition to the, I think the... The moments

01:22:04.340 --> 01:22:07.079
with Lon Chaney, especially in The Phantom, I

01:22:07.079 --> 01:22:10.819
think are very well directed. Not just his acting,

01:22:10.920 --> 01:22:12.699
which stands the test of time, but I think the

01:22:12.699 --> 01:22:15.859
way he's shot and the way he's lit. I think the

01:22:15.859 --> 01:22:19.020
chase through Paris is still really riveting.

01:22:19.079 --> 01:22:21.439
And then the final moment before The Phantom

01:22:21.439 --> 01:22:23.500
dies, he gets thrown in the river by the mob.

01:22:24.279 --> 01:22:27.399
He has something in his hand and he pretends

01:22:27.399 --> 01:22:30.039
like it's going to be something wicked again.

01:22:30.279 --> 01:22:31.979
And it turns out to be nothing. It's just all

01:22:31.979 --> 01:22:34.779
a big joke. So the Phantom has a sense of humor

01:22:34.779 --> 01:22:38.920
going out, which I just, I just love this character

01:22:38.920 --> 01:22:44.079
who's diabolical yet darkly humorous at the same

01:22:44.079 --> 01:22:47.399
time. So I think all of it still stands the test

01:22:47.399 --> 01:22:51.000
of time. I think it's a classic and for good

01:22:51.000 --> 01:22:55.220
reason. I would agree. Like it's, there's antiquated

01:22:55.220 --> 01:22:57.439
moments. Sure. And it's storytelling, but at

01:22:57.439 --> 01:23:02.220
the same time, Like, it's so well done, and Lon's

01:23:02.220 --> 01:23:04.640
so great, as we've talked about. The production

01:23:04.640 --> 01:23:08.420
values are out of this world. And you see how

01:23:08.420 --> 01:23:10.140
it's kind of permeated pop culture for the last

01:23:10.140 --> 01:23:12.439
100 years, and how we still go back to it, and

01:23:12.439 --> 01:23:15.579
how those images are kind of forever lasting.

01:23:15.699 --> 01:23:18.260
And to think about the film history behind it,

01:23:18.279 --> 01:23:20.579
the different cuts of it, you know, if you go

01:23:20.579 --> 01:23:22.319
and study it all like we've been talking about,

01:23:22.520 --> 01:23:25.380
I think that's all fascinating. And you learn

01:23:25.380 --> 01:23:28.260
about who Lon Chaney was, coming from deaf parents.

01:23:28.359 --> 01:23:31.960
All these different layers add to why it's impactful

01:23:31.960 --> 01:23:35.720
and adds another layer to it. And yeah, it's

01:23:35.720 --> 01:23:38.279
kind of fun. Coming from the musical end that

01:23:38.279 --> 01:23:40.399
I've talked about and to see the connections

01:23:40.399 --> 01:23:43.460
between the two or how the musical takes from

01:23:43.460 --> 01:23:46.399
this, pays homage to this film, is rewarding.

01:23:46.819 --> 01:23:49.979
So yeah, Times Classic, Sans Test Time. Sure,

01:23:50.079 --> 01:23:52.220
there's some storytelling elements. Of course,

01:23:52.279 --> 01:23:56.250
it's 100 years old. Times were different. Yeah,

01:23:56.350 --> 01:23:58.710
totally agree with both of you. I'm happy to

01:23:58.710 --> 01:24:02.250
hear that we're all going to say it's a timeless

01:24:02.250 --> 01:24:04.149
classic and definitely stand the test of time

01:24:04.149 --> 01:24:06.529
because I definitely feel that way. Yep, again,

01:24:06.770 --> 01:24:09.630
certain things don't date very well, but I think

01:24:09.630 --> 01:24:12.010
that's more than made up for by just the spell

01:24:12.010 --> 01:24:14.210
that this movie casts, the spell that Lon Chaney

01:24:14.210 --> 01:24:17.829
casts. And I think even if the silent style of

01:24:17.829 --> 01:24:20.390
movie performances can be a little bit... over

01:24:20.390 --> 01:24:22.850
the top. Sometimes there's also just like this

01:24:22.850 --> 01:24:26.189
sense of movement and expressiveness that like,

01:24:26.210 --> 01:24:27.989
you don't really see in performances anymore.

01:24:28.090 --> 01:24:31.170
And like, you know, I would gladly give away

01:24:31.170 --> 01:24:33.670
some of that realism for like the dynamic sort

01:24:33.670 --> 01:24:35.550
of energy that the performances in this movie

01:24:35.550 --> 01:24:37.850
have certainly from Chaney, but I think we also

01:24:37.850 --> 01:24:40.390
see it in some of the other actors as well. Maybe

01:24:40.390 --> 01:24:42.729
not Raul, but some of the other characters for

01:24:42.729 --> 01:24:46.390
sure. So, yeah, I mean, this again, this to me

01:24:46.390 --> 01:24:48.909
is kind of like a foundational text of American

01:24:48.909 --> 01:24:52.609
horror cinema and just a really magnificent movie

01:24:52.609 --> 01:24:56.130
in its own right. Well said. Thank you. Thank

01:24:56.130 --> 01:24:58.310
you all for listening. Thank you, Paul, for being

01:24:58.310 --> 01:25:00.590
here and joining us. Thanks for having me. It

01:25:00.590 --> 01:25:03.649
was great. Thank you, Paul. We definitely want

01:25:03.649 --> 01:25:05.970
to give you some time here to plug anything that

01:25:05.970 --> 01:25:10.069
you want to share with our listeners. Okay, you

01:25:10.069 --> 01:25:12.869
can find me on social media at Paul's Movie Trip.

01:25:13.289 --> 01:25:15.670
You can search Paul's Trip to the Movies on YouTube,

01:25:15.829 --> 01:25:19.029
on Patreon. You can go to my website, paulstriptothemovies

01:25:19.029 --> 01:25:21.529
.com. I have interviews right now with the cast

01:25:21.529 --> 01:25:23.789
of Kiss of the Spider Woman, the cast of Rough

01:25:23.789 --> 01:25:26.250
Man with Channing Tatum and Kirsten Dunst. Some

01:25:26.250 --> 01:25:27.710
Apple shows coming up that I've done interviews

01:25:27.710 --> 01:25:30.590
for that will be coming out soon. So good things

01:25:30.590 --> 01:25:34.170
coming ahead. Yeah. Amazing. You're always welcome

01:25:34.170 --> 01:25:38.130
back. I would love to be back. We'd love to hear,

01:25:38.289 --> 01:25:42.069
I don't know, if you have any films you'd love

01:25:42.069 --> 01:25:45.609
to, you think would be good for this show. Maybe

01:25:45.609 --> 01:25:50.010
some Stephen King. Sure. Absolutely. Sign me

01:25:50.010 --> 01:25:53.090
up. Love that. Love me some Halloween. Let me

01:25:53.090 --> 01:25:55.170
some scream. That's right. We've talked about

01:25:55.170 --> 01:25:57.789
John Carpenter. I just watched Ghosts of Mars

01:25:57.789 --> 01:26:01.069
last week, which is amazing. Like, I kind of

01:26:01.069 --> 01:26:03.170
hate vampires, the movie that he made right before

01:26:03.170 --> 01:26:05.890
that. But Ghosts of Mars is kind of stupid, but

01:26:05.890 --> 01:26:08.989
like so stylish, so fun. The cast is amazing.

01:26:09.149 --> 01:26:11.989
And yeah, so love that movie. Love John Carpenter.

01:26:12.109 --> 01:26:14.029
Happy to hear that you like him as well. Yeah,

01:26:14.050 --> 01:26:15.750
I actually have that's a blind spot for me. And

01:26:15.750 --> 01:26:19.289
his work is that one. I have not seen it. Highly

01:26:19.289 --> 01:26:23.840
recommended. Pam Greer, Ice Cube, Natasha Hensbridge,

01:26:24.100 --> 01:26:28.199
Jason Statham. Amazing cast in that movie. My

01:26:28.199 --> 01:26:30.840
brain just exploded. Thanks for hanging out,

01:26:30.880 --> 01:26:33.279
friends. Please rate and review Camp Kaiju wherever

01:26:33.279 --> 01:26:35.680
you listen. You can also share this podcast with

01:26:35.680 --> 01:26:38.239
a friend. Subscribe to the website and send us

01:26:38.239 --> 01:26:40.920
listener comments at campkaiju at gmail .com

01:26:40.920 --> 01:26:43.699
or on Instagram. Links in the show notes. Or

01:26:43.699 --> 01:26:45.420
if you'd like to be a featured voice on the show,

01:26:45.560 --> 01:26:50.510
leave us a voicemail at 612 -470 -2612. telling

01:26:50.510 --> 01:26:52.750
us about your favorite monster movies and memories.

01:26:52.930 --> 01:26:55.430
Please check out our website, CampKaijuPodcast

01:26:55.430 --> 01:26:58.949
.com, for more information. Camp Kaiju is recorded

01:26:58.949 --> 01:27:01.430
in Minneapolis, St. Paul, with me in his mailbox

01:27:01.430 --> 01:27:04.449
by Ben Cook -Felts. Thank you, friends, and until

01:27:04.449 --> 01:27:07.329
next time, stay campy. Camp Kaiju is sponsored

01:27:07.329 --> 01:27:09.489
by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack, powered by

01:27:09.489 --> 01:27:12.109
Coldwell Banker Realty, your source for real

01:27:12.109 --> 01:27:14.689
estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor

01:27:14.689 --> 01:27:17.229
clients and residential buyers. Reach out to

01:27:17.229 --> 01:27:19.109
the Zach Pack today for real estate services.

01:27:19.710 --> 01:27:22.489
Follow the Zach Pack on social media and contact

01:27:22.489 --> 01:27:25.350
the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Link

01:27:25.350 --> 01:27:57.239
in the show notes. Well, we should have lived

01:27:57.239 --> 01:27:59.520
happily ever after, like they do in the movies.

01:28:00.100 --> 01:28:03.119
But this was different. Because this is a Hollywood

01:28:03.119 --> 01:28:05.880
story about the people who make the movies. The

01:28:05.880 --> 01:28:07.760
little ones that you never hear of, like Betty

01:28:07.760 --> 01:28:10.920
and me. The great ones, like Cecil B. DeMille.

01:28:11.720 --> 01:28:15.380
All those who knew Norma Desmond. A strange woman

01:28:15.380 --> 01:28:18.420
who left her mark on all of us. Who crossed her

01:28:18.420 --> 01:28:21.460
path. Has it ever occurred to you that I may

01:28:21.460 --> 01:28:23.960
have a life of my own? That there may be some

01:28:23.960 --> 01:28:28.079
girl that I'm crazy about? Who? Some car hop

01:28:28.079 --> 01:28:31.199
or a dress extra? What I'm trying to say is that

01:28:31.199 --> 01:28:33.720
I'm all wrong for you. You want a Valentino,

01:28:33.800 --> 01:28:38.560
somebody with polo ponies, a big shot. What you're

01:28:38.560 --> 01:28:40.579
trying to say is you don't want me to love you.

01:28:41.899 --> 01:28:48.260
Say it. Say it. Gloria Swanson, one of the great

01:28:48.260 --> 01:28:50.600
personalities of this generation in a role that

01:28:50.600 --> 01:28:53.819
comes to an actress once in a lifetime. Rising

01:28:53.819 --> 01:28:56.600
to the heights, William Holden creates a startling

01:28:56.600 --> 01:29:00.279
portrayal. And a new star is born in Sunset Boulevard,

01:29:00.600 --> 01:29:05.060
Miss Nancy Olsen. Joe, where are you? What's

01:29:05.060 --> 01:29:07.279
this all about? Why don't you come out and see

01:29:07.279 --> 01:29:11.840
for yourself? The address is 10086 Sunset Boulevard.

01:29:16.619 --> 01:29:19.539
Yes, Lon Chaney was all of these. The Hunchback

01:29:19.539 --> 01:29:21.979
of Notre Dame, The Miracle Man, The Phantom of

01:29:21.979 --> 01:29:25.510
the Opera. The world, fascinated and thrilled,

01:29:25.590 --> 01:29:31.590
called him the man of a thousand faces. But what

01:29:31.590 --> 01:29:34.289
was the secret Lon Chaney hid behind his thousand

01:29:34.289 --> 01:29:38.229
faces? What was the mystery in his life? Now,

01:29:38.310 --> 01:29:40.729
for the first time, the true story, torn from

01:29:40.729 --> 01:29:43.750
his heart, comes to the screen. Starring James

01:29:43.750 --> 01:29:46.649
Cagney, magnificent as the fabulous Lon Chaney,

01:29:46.829 --> 01:29:49.449
master of the grotesque, the weird, the strange.

01:29:50.140 --> 01:29:52.399
and Academy Award -winning Dorothy Malone and

01:29:52.399 --> 01:29:55.239
lovely Jane Greer as the two women who made his

01:29:55.239 --> 01:29:57.840
life more astounding, more touching than any

01:29:57.840 --> 01:30:00.319
of his unforgettable roles. I'm going to see

01:30:00.319 --> 01:30:06.119
you every week. Every week. I promise you. You

01:30:06.119 --> 01:30:15.340
had me fired. Damn you! Damn you! Damn you! Who

01:30:15.340 --> 01:30:19.319
are you? I'm from the collection agency. I've

01:30:19.319 --> 01:30:42.199
come to collect my wife. There's some kind of

01:30:42.199 --> 01:30:43.979
cool stuff that I thought was interesting about

01:30:43.979 --> 01:30:46.500
the making of the movie, like how Lon Chaney,

01:30:46.560 --> 01:30:48.579
you know, created his own makeup. And then he

01:30:48.579 --> 01:30:51.239
had one of the cameramen like come into his,

01:30:51.319 --> 01:30:53.899
what's the word, dressing room or whatever, trailer,

01:30:54.060 --> 01:30:56.310
whatever it would be. And like surprised the

01:30:56.310 --> 01:30:58.689
cameraman. Like it was the first time anybody

01:30:58.689 --> 01:31:01.529
saw it. And the cameraman like screamed and like

01:31:01.529 --> 01:31:03.569
tumbled backwards over a piece of furniture or

01:31:03.569 --> 01:31:05.630
something. And was like, Lon, what are you doing?

01:31:05.689 --> 01:31:07.630
What the hell? I love that story. That's great.

01:31:07.909 --> 01:31:09.829
But yeah, I mean like just little stories like

01:31:09.829 --> 01:31:12.789
that. That's all I would add to it. Yeah. And

01:31:12.789 --> 01:31:14.890
Mary Philbin, when she pulled the mask off, that

01:31:14.890 --> 01:31:17.850
was the first time she had seen his face. Which

01:31:17.850 --> 01:31:19.970
is just like you hear stories about that today.

01:31:20.390 --> 01:31:23.130
And it's just fun to know that, no, even back

01:31:23.130 --> 01:31:27.000
then, to get the. The true raw reaction. They

01:31:27.000 --> 01:31:31.560
saved it for in camera. Yeah. It's awesome. I

01:31:31.560 --> 01:31:34.020
love the way that scene is shot after she pulls

01:31:34.020 --> 01:31:38.060
off the mask. The camera is looking at Lon Chaney

01:31:38.060 --> 01:31:42.539
from up or it's like angled up and it just like

01:31:42.539 --> 01:31:45.739
really accentuates his height. And then there's

01:31:45.739 --> 01:31:49.239
a shot of him from behind and it's all done so

01:31:49.239 --> 01:31:55.380
dynamically to. To make him look even more monstrous.

01:31:55.460 --> 01:31:57.880
And she's cowering on the floor. So there's like

01:31:57.880 --> 01:32:03.720
a great blocking. Of height. And power. And then

01:32:03.720 --> 01:32:06.899
he's like floating down. Like the way the camera.

01:32:06.979 --> 01:32:09.720
Like pulls back. As he's coming down the stairs.

01:32:10.199 --> 01:32:13.960
I just got a sense of like floating skull. Just

01:32:13.960 --> 01:32:17.659
like floating. Image of death. Which I think.

01:32:18.159 --> 01:32:22.260
The Phantom is in this movie. He is death. and

01:32:22.260 --> 01:32:27.600
embodied and it's just so freaking cool it is

01:32:27.600 --> 01:32:30.079
yeah absolutely it's it's visually like a really

01:32:30.079 --> 01:32:33.819
i don't maybe not experimental but like i think

01:32:33.819 --> 01:32:35.939
at this time in the mid -20s they were like starting

01:32:35.939 --> 01:32:38.399
to play around a little bit more with like strange

01:32:38.399 --> 01:32:40.699
compositions and camera movements and camera

01:32:40.699 --> 01:32:43.760
effects Probably in the late teens, they really

01:32:43.760 --> 01:32:46.159
started to do that a little bit more. But it's

01:32:46.159 --> 01:32:47.760
really impressive in this movie. I think there's

01:32:47.760 --> 01:32:50.600
another shot where the Phantom is intentionally

01:32:50.600 --> 01:32:53.420
out of focus at first and then gradually becomes

01:32:53.420 --> 01:32:56.479
clearer. And that's a really cool experiment

01:32:56.479 --> 01:32:59.720
with first -person perspective. There's another

01:32:59.720 --> 01:33:02.899
shot where two characters are waiting. They're

01:33:02.899 --> 01:33:05.680
hiding around a corner. And all we can see is

01:33:05.680 --> 01:33:07.680
a face in the distance coming at the camera.

01:33:07.899 --> 01:33:09.960
And I think in that case, it's actually the...

01:33:10.569 --> 01:33:12.789
you know, the Persian character. Like it's not

01:33:12.789 --> 01:33:14.489
the Phantom in that instance, but it is like

01:33:14.489 --> 01:33:16.369
a really amazing shot where like all we see is

01:33:16.369 --> 01:33:19.069
like a face in the darkness and the lighting

01:33:19.069 --> 01:33:21.090
is immaculate. The camera work is great. Like

01:33:21.090 --> 01:33:23.210
you said, it's like visually a really spectacular

01:33:23.210 --> 01:33:28.109
movie. Yeah. And then all the extras that Carl

01:33:28.109 --> 01:33:31.229
Emily stuffed into this film, not just the audience

01:33:31.229 --> 01:33:33.770
goers, but like there's a full opera happening

01:33:33.770 --> 01:33:39.859
with a hundred ballerinas on stage. Yeah. I mean,

01:33:39.880 --> 01:33:41.880
the movie, even when you adjust it for inflation,

01:33:42.260 --> 01:33:46.260
like by today's standards, it's nothing, but

01:33:46.260 --> 01:33:49.960
it was close to a million dollars in 1925 money

01:33:49.960 --> 01:33:53.779
and it paid off. But like, that's a huge amount

01:33:53.779 --> 01:33:57.619
of money for a movie at that time. Yeah, for

01:33:57.619 --> 01:33:59.340
sure. And I know like with the success of The

01:33:59.340 --> 01:34:02.359
Hunchback of Notre Dame, like, you know, I think

01:34:02.359 --> 01:34:04.180
Universal was like pretty confident they would

01:34:04.180 --> 01:34:06.079
have a hit on their hands with Lon Chaney appearing

01:34:06.079 --> 01:34:08.720
in it again. But like, you know, there's no guarantee

01:34:08.720 --> 01:34:11.640
of that, of course. So like, I don't know. It

01:34:11.640 --> 01:34:15.000
was risky and I think it paid off. It's an amazing

01:34:15.000 --> 01:34:19.619
movie. Yeah. I was so excited to talk about it.

01:34:20.260 --> 01:34:23.199
I'm glad you feel the same way. Love it. Yeah.

01:34:24.000 --> 01:34:27.399
I'm glad Paul liked it too. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm

01:34:27.399 --> 01:34:30.020
glad he could talk about the musical influence

01:34:30.020 --> 01:34:33.500
as well. Cause like in pop culture, that is also

01:34:33.500 --> 01:34:38.300
a juggernaut of, of a piece. Yeah. Yeah. And

01:34:38.300 --> 01:34:40.159
unfortunately it's a blind spot for me. I don't

01:34:40.159 --> 01:34:42.020
really like musicals all that much. I like, you

01:34:42.020 --> 01:34:43.659
know, some of the older ones with like Gene Kelly

01:34:43.659 --> 01:34:45.880
and Fred Astaire and stuff, but like, yeah, I

01:34:45.880 --> 01:34:47.560
don't know that one. So I'm glad that he was

01:34:47.560 --> 01:34:50.539
here to provide some insight onto that. I just

01:34:50.539 --> 01:34:54.199
also wanted to say, I did enjoy as Inspector

01:34:54.199 --> 01:34:59.529
Ledoux, The Persian. I do enjoy the performance

01:34:59.529 --> 01:35:04.710
of Arthur Edmund Carew. Yeah. I could see why

01:35:04.710 --> 01:35:09.109
he was well -liked and respected because his

01:35:09.109 --> 01:35:12.409
presence on screen seems very likable to me.

01:35:12.470 --> 01:35:15.470
He seems like a hero. I want him to figure out

01:35:15.470 --> 01:35:19.529
this case. Yeah. Yeah, he has a lot of magnetism,

01:35:19.609 --> 01:35:22.069
a lot of gravity and screen presence, you know?

01:35:22.189 --> 01:35:23.909
It's unfortunate his character didn't really

01:35:23.909 --> 01:35:26.829
do a lot in this movie, but... Yeah, I like him

01:35:26.829 --> 01:35:29.270
a lot as an actor. What did you think about the

01:35:29.270 --> 01:35:32.350
comedy in this film? And I'm thinking specifically

01:35:32.350 --> 01:35:36.390
about that stagehand who's clearly a comedic

01:35:36.390 --> 01:35:40.149
relief character. Yeah. You know, I think it

01:35:40.149 --> 01:35:44.609
works okay. It's seemingly... A product of all

01:35:44.609 --> 01:35:46.210
the different versions of the film that they

01:35:46.210 --> 01:35:48.609
shot and like all the reshoots and the audience

01:35:48.609 --> 01:35:51.710
like suggestions, which again, if you're going

01:35:51.710 --> 01:35:53.510
to see the Phantom of the Opera and you're like,

01:35:53.529 --> 01:35:55.750
oh, there's too much like mystery and gloom.

01:35:55.750 --> 01:35:57.630
It's like, what do you do in audience? What do

01:35:57.630 --> 01:35:59.189
you think you're getting into? You know, what

01:35:59.189 --> 01:36:01.109
a stupid comment. But anyway, I'm getting off

01:36:01.109 --> 01:36:03.409
topic. You know, I think the comedy is like out

01:36:03.409 --> 01:36:05.689
of place, but it's kind of fun. Like there's

01:36:05.689 --> 01:36:07.930
the bit where like there's a trap door in the

01:36:07.930 --> 01:36:10.720
stage and like the stage and like. pops up out

01:36:10.720 --> 01:36:13.000
of it and then like the other stagehand like

01:36:13.000 --> 01:36:14.539
roughs him up and then he like goes through the

01:36:14.539 --> 01:36:18.819
trap door that stuff's kind of fun right it does

01:36:18.819 --> 01:36:21.220
seem like it's from a different movie but you

01:36:21.220 --> 01:36:23.880
know what I'll take it yeah makes it more entertaining

01:36:23.880 --> 01:36:27.520
and kind of unpredictable you know yeah because

01:36:27.520 --> 01:36:29.920
nothing well I was gonna say nothing about the

01:36:29.920 --> 01:36:32.020
phantom is funny but that's not true I think

01:36:32.020 --> 01:36:34.420
the phantom does have a pretty dark sense of

01:36:34.420 --> 01:36:40.020
humor I mean even just like he revels in in the

01:36:40.020 --> 01:36:45.819
chaos he's causing. He's pure chaos. Right. Yeah,

01:36:45.899 --> 01:36:48.420
absolutely. You mentioned the bit at the end

01:36:48.420 --> 01:36:49.899
where he's pretending that he has something in

01:36:49.899 --> 01:36:51.319
his hand and he doesn't. That's pretty funny.

01:36:51.359 --> 01:36:54.039
I like that. And just, yeah, all the elaborate

01:36:54.039 --> 01:36:56.920
traps and the fact that the pool that the two

01:36:56.920 --> 01:37:00.039
guys almost drown in is right underneath the

01:37:00.039 --> 01:37:02.720
Phantom's bed chamber or whatever. There's a

01:37:02.720 --> 01:37:04.960
hidden panel that opens and then the guys come

01:37:04.960 --> 01:37:08.060
up. I thought that was really funny. I also think

01:37:08.060 --> 01:37:12.079
it's funny. How, why does it take the mob so

01:37:12.079 --> 01:37:15.359
long to go down into the sewers to find the phantom?

01:37:15.460 --> 01:37:20.520
I feel like all those secret passageways shouldn't

01:37:20.520 --> 01:37:23.279
have been so secret. You know what I mean? Like

01:37:23.279 --> 01:37:25.500
who's the sewer worker who like knew about this

01:37:25.500 --> 01:37:27.739
for 12 years, but like has been sitting on that

01:37:27.739 --> 01:37:30.500
information. Right. Why did it take so long to

01:37:30.500 --> 01:37:34.539
figure that out? Yeah. Yeah. Like it kind of

01:37:34.539 --> 01:37:36.939
makes sense that the phantom would know. all

01:37:36.939 --> 01:37:39.079
the hidden like tunnels and like secret entrances

01:37:39.079 --> 01:37:41.260
so well. Cause he's like lived under there for

01:37:41.260 --> 01:37:44.500
so long apparently. But yeah, like the climax

01:37:44.500 --> 01:37:46.439
doesn't really make a lot of sense. He has a

01:37:46.439 --> 01:37:51.000
fully furnished apartment suite down in that

01:37:51.000 --> 01:37:53.819
sewer. I want to live there. It looks amazing.

01:37:53.920 --> 01:37:56.039
You know, it probably would be a little bit dank

01:37:56.039 --> 01:37:59.939
and like humid at times, but it's like well furnished,

01:37:59.960 --> 01:38:02.300
you know, that'd be nice. Love that. How do you

01:38:02.300 --> 01:38:04.689
get it in there? There's, he's got a boat. And

01:38:04.689 --> 01:38:07.050
I think it's cool that he uses the reed to breathe

01:38:07.050 --> 01:38:10.050
underwater. Yeah, I love that. As he stalks the

01:38:10.050 --> 01:38:13.289
people on the boat. Yeah, that's a really great

01:38:13.289 --> 01:38:17.010
scene. And early on, I think actually the opening

01:38:17.010 --> 01:38:18.909
is kind of funny because the two owners of the

01:38:18.909 --> 01:38:21.770
opera house sell it to two other guys. And then

01:38:21.770 --> 01:38:23.590
they're like, oh, by the way, there might be

01:38:23.590 --> 01:38:26.310
a dead phantom who haunts the opera house. We

01:38:26.310 --> 01:38:28.850
forgot to tell you that. And then the two new

01:38:28.850 --> 01:38:33.119
guys who own the opera house go into the... loge

01:38:33.119 --> 01:38:35.000
the box or whatever where like the phantom hides

01:38:35.000 --> 01:38:37.539
out and they see him and then they leave and

01:38:37.539 --> 01:38:39.479
come back and suddenly he's gone that's such

01:38:39.479 --> 01:38:42.140
a campy moment and like is the phantom just trying

01:38:42.140 --> 01:38:43.739
to like fuck with people what is he doing he's

01:38:43.739 --> 01:38:46.100
just like did he like jump over the balcony all

01:38:46.100 --> 01:38:48.899
of a sudden i love it it's funny because he's

01:38:48.899 --> 01:38:52.000
not a ghost turns out he's a real person so right

01:38:52.000 --> 01:38:56.340
he can't defy physics he's just trying to mess

01:38:56.340 --> 01:38:58.899
with people yeah uh he's a chaos agent like you

01:38:58.899 --> 01:39:03.159
said i know He's so funny. There were a couple

01:39:03.159 --> 01:39:05.300
of title cards that made me laugh, and I had

01:39:05.300 --> 01:39:08.460
to write them down. In lieu of lines, like these

01:39:08.460 --> 01:39:14.899
are campy lines. Feast your eyes, glut your soul

01:39:14.899 --> 01:39:19.840
on my accursed ugliness. I remember that one.

01:39:20.819 --> 01:39:26.359
Legendary line. Just so imaginative. Loved it.

01:39:29.140 --> 01:39:31.840
Yeah, I knew that some of those notes were really

01:39:31.840 --> 01:39:33.640
funny. I should have taken a picture or written

01:39:33.640 --> 01:39:35.560
them down. Do you have any other ones that you

01:39:35.560 --> 01:39:39.340
took a picture of or wrote down? Phantom says

01:39:39.340 --> 01:39:42.140
to Christine, at last you have realized your

01:39:42.140 --> 01:39:46.359
ambitions and now we shall be married. No, sorry.

01:39:46.579 --> 01:39:49.640
That's not the Phantom. That's Raul who says

01:39:49.640 --> 01:39:53.380
that to Christine. She has the lead in the song

01:39:53.380 --> 01:39:55.340
and then she goes back to her dressing room and

01:39:55.340 --> 01:39:58.319
Raul is there and he says, At last you've realized

01:39:58.319 --> 01:40:01.680
your ambitions. Now we shall be married. And

01:40:01.680 --> 01:40:04.020
I was like, Oh, gender dynamics a hundred years

01:40:04.020 --> 01:40:07.199
ago. Yeah. I mean, that stuff dates pretty poorly

01:40:07.199 --> 01:40:13.960
for sure. And, but yeah, I mean, if, if you can

01:40:13.960 --> 01:40:16.359
understand it as a product of like the time and

01:40:16.359 --> 01:40:19.460
place, then it's like, I'm not saying it's funny

01:40:19.460 --> 01:40:21.359
to like make light of it, but it's funny just

01:40:21.359 --> 01:40:23.020
like how obvious it is, you know? And like what

01:40:23.020 --> 01:40:25.800
a different time it was like over the top, obviously.

01:40:26.359 --> 01:40:29.460
Yeah. I'm looking at some other quotes now, like

01:40:29.460 --> 01:40:31.180
intertitles from the movie, because I know there

01:40:31.180 --> 01:40:33.560
were some other ones that I loved. One that made

01:40:33.560 --> 01:40:36.439
me laugh as you're looking is Christine, when

01:40:36.439 --> 01:40:39.539
she first sees the Phantom, she says, you, you

01:40:39.539 --> 01:40:43.180
are the Phantom. And I went to myself on the

01:40:43.180 --> 01:40:46.920
couch, no duh, Christine, who did you think just

01:40:46.920 --> 01:40:51.260
kidnapped you behind a mirror door and took you

01:40:51.260 --> 01:40:56.390
down into the halls of the backstage? Just had

01:40:56.390 --> 01:41:00.109
to be pulling my hair out sometimes. Yeah. Apparently

01:41:00.109 --> 01:41:02.130
she thinks there's like an actual Phantom of

01:41:02.130 --> 01:41:04.829
the Opera and then this like unseen benevolent

01:41:04.829 --> 01:41:07.510
figure who's like trying to like lift her up.

01:41:07.550 --> 01:41:09.750
You know, it's a little naive on her part, but

01:41:09.750 --> 01:41:14.090
a little naive. Oh, this is sorry. I finally

01:41:14.090 --> 01:41:17.550
found it. This is. I can't remember if it's like

01:41:17.550 --> 01:41:19.630
an intertitle or a note that he gives, but the

01:41:19.630 --> 01:41:22.989
Phantom says, no longer like a toad in these

01:41:22.989 --> 01:41:26.149
foul cellars will I secrete the venom of hatred,

01:41:26.270 --> 01:41:31.050
for you shall bring me love. Oh my God. Love

01:41:31.050 --> 01:41:33.909
that line. I should have written it down when

01:41:33.909 --> 01:41:37.010
I saw it. I'm glad I finally found it here. Secrete

01:41:37.010 --> 01:41:41.250
the venom of hatred. Amazing. Maybe it gets away

01:41:41.250 --> 01:41:43.470
with it because you're reading the titles. But

01:41:43.470 --> 01:41:46.789
if any actor said those lines on screen, even

01:41:46.789 --> 01:41:49.310
at the time, I think you would laugh at that.

01:41:49.869 --> 01:41:53.909
Yeah. That makes me think of Singing in the Rain.

01:41:53.970 --> 01:41:58.430
Remember when they're trying to record the lines

01:41:58.430 --> 01:42:02.710
and the voices? Yeah. And Gene Kelly, you know,

01:42:02.729 --> 01:42:05.989
he can't get away with, I love you, I love you,

01:42:06.050 --> 01:42:09.079
I love you. Like he could in the silent movie.

01:42:10.039 --> 01:42:14.420
Right. There's so much that I love about singing

01:42:14.420 --> 01:42:17.699
in the rain and just like the, you know, Jean

01:42:17.699 --> 01:42:19.819
Hagen, I think is the actress's name, like her

01:42:19.819 --> 01:42:22.779
extremely shrill voice and like the technology

01:42:22.779 --> 01:42:24.880
of it, like all that stuff I love in that movie.

01:42:25.500 --> 01:42:28.819
Yeah. It just, it captures the spirit of this

01:42:28.819 --> 01:42:33.060
truly bygone age at this point. Like Carla Lemley

01:42:33.060 --> 01:42:35.720
is gone and she was one of the last surviving.

01:42:36.560 --> 01:42:41.500
stars of the era she died 11 years ago now but

01:42:41.500 --> 01:42:46.520
i don't think anyone's left and yeah it's just

01:42:46.520 --> 01:42:49.060
in history books now and and movies like this

01:42:49.060 --> 01:42:53.859
where it's a time capsule as much as art or a

01:42:53.859 --> 01:42:58.899
narrative art piece yeah yeah for sure yeah and

01:42:58.899 --> 01:43:00.619
like that's why i just like the way it looks

01:43:00.619 --> 01:43:03.220
lon cheney's performance it's you know there

01:43:03.220 --> 01:43:04.800
will never be another movie like this you know

01:43:05.739 --> 01:43:08.739
Yeah, they've tried many, many remakes, which

01:43:08.739 --> 01:43:10.779
I haven't seen. Apparently, Robert England was

01:43:10.779 --> 01:43:14.859
in a version in the 80s. There was a universal

01:43:14.859 --> 01:43:18.039
version in the 60s. Phantom of the Paradise,

01:43:18.260 --> 01:43:22.220
of course. The musical, of course. But, you know,

01:43:22.300 --> 01:43:26.060
I want to watch them all, but I just don't think

01:43:26.060 --> 01:43:31.119
they can truly match that je ne sais quoi of

01:43:31.119 --> 01:43:34.739
this first one. Totally, yeah. I'm intrigued

01:43:34.739 --> 01:43:36.579
by the Robert Englund one, though. I was not

01:43:36.579 --> 01:43:40.859
aware of that. It seems like a product of a Robert

01:43:40.859 --> 01:43:46.399
Englund 80s horror movie. Dirty, violent, rough

01:43:46.399 --> 01:43:50.699
around the edges. I sometimes love that kind

01:43:50.699 --> 01:43:53.039
of thing. Usually I love it. It can go too far

01:43:53.039 --> 01:43:56.100
sometimes, but yeah, I'm intrigued. Did Hammer

01:43:56.100 --> 01:43:59.239
make a Phantom? Yeah, the Phantom of the Opera,

01:43:59.319 --> 01:44:02.859
1962. Okay, maybe that's what I'm thinking about,

01:44:02.960 --> 01:44:06.750
yeah. Terrence Fisher. Okay. I'd watch that one.

01:44:06.770 --> 01:44:08.369
I'd be into that one. We got to get some hammer

01:44:08.369 --> 01:44:12.069
films on the podcast. Yeah, for sure. They're

01:44:12.069 --> 01:44:13.409
kind of hit or miss, I think, but there are some

01:44:13.409 --> 01:44:15.470
fantastic ones. Agreed.