WEBVTT

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That nighttime attack when the bear attacks the

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camp. It's like what we love in King Kong Lives.

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It's a quintessential. Everything goes bananas

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at once. Cars explode. There's bodies on fire.

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It's just pandemonium. Yeah. Totally ridiculous.

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Yeah. Hello and welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster

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Movie Podcast. We're your hosts, Matt Levine

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and Vincent Hannum. And we are talking about

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all our favorite monster movies, the good, the

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bad, and the downright campy, and asking if they

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stand the test of time. Traditional kaiju, creature

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features, space invaders, the supernatural, and

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everything in between. All strange beasts welcome

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here. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zack Linder

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and the Zack Pack, powered by Coldwell Banker

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Realty. your source for real estate, home rehab,

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fixing and flipping for investor clients, and

00:01:13.219 --> 00:01:15.859
residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach Pack

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today for real estate services, follow the Zach

00:01:18.439 --> 00:01:21.159
Pack on social media, and contact the Zach Pack

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for investment opportunities. Link in the show

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notes. This paper company, the Pitney Mills Paper

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Company, bought the timber rights to 100 ,000

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acres of forest in Maine. The Indians claim the

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land is theirs. I'm a doctor. And you know how

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to deal with human beings. The Indians are angry,

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and so is the lumber company. Everybody's ready

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to kill each other. People start disappearing.

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The Indians spread the word that they were taken

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by Katahdin. That's one of their legends. I'm

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here to study the environment. My people are

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violently ill. And this has nothing to do with

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alcohol. My people are fishermen. Their lives

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are clean. I've seen children born dead. Born

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and born. The end of this forest is the end of

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my people. Is that from Mercury? It was created

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by man. And it will mindlessly, mercilessly kill

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every living thing it meets. Vincent, it's good

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to be here with you. How are you doing? I'm good.

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Actually, I had the day off of school today.

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On September 23rd is Rosh Hashanah and Minneapolis

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Public Schools gives the day off. So it's like

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a random four day week for me, but that's okay.

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I went to the zoo with my kid. What a beautiful

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day for it too. It was kind of like cool, like

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in between summer, fall weather, you know, that's

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great. I'm glad you had a chance to do that.

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Yeah. She is obsessed with gorillas and I think

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it's just so coincidental. So are we King Kong

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Congo that we spent a lot of time with the gorillas

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and they were funny. It's like early, we went

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early in the morning and they were like, just

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derping around. Still trying to wake up in the

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morning, drinking their coffee, you know? Yeah.

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That's awesome. I love that. That Ada, you know,

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I think she's sort of like sensing your King

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Kong. Like we just talked about King Kong lives

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in the last episode. So I feel like she knows

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that she's trying to pay homage a little bit.

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Yeah, I'll get her there. Right. How are you

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doing? Good, good. Yeah, I had a job interview

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today. It's kind of a crazy time to be applying

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to jobs right now, but yeah, applied to a job

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today. I'm excited that, you know, right now

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as we're recording this episode, it's late September,

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but when this episode comes out, it'll be October,

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best time of the year. So horror movie marathons

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will be taking place for the next three or four

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weeks. I can't wait. Yeah. So... A lot of stuff

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playing at the Trilon Cinema in Minneapolis throughout

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the month of October. Maybe there's a conflict

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of interest here because I also volunteer for

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the Trilon. I feel like I should say that. But

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it's a great theater. And throughout the month

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of October, like after October 4th, when this

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episode will premiere, they'll be playing movies

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like Koroneko, a really great Japanese horror

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movie. Scream, Blackula, Scream, which I haven't

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seen, but very excited for that. That's a sequel

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to Blackula. Indeed, yeah. Which, and I've actually

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never seen Blackula either, but this is a good

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reminder that I should do that at some point.

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Ditto. Yeah. So I'm excited about that. Rosemary's

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Baby, my favorite horror movie of all time, is

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playing at the Trilon. And then one more movie

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that I want to shout out at the Heights Cinema

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in Minneapolis. Another of my favorite theaters,

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The War of the Worlds from 1953 is playing there

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on October 16th. So those are just a couple titles.

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I'm sure there are some other ones that are playing

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in the Twin Cities as well. Or you listeners

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out there, wherever you live, I'm sure there

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are great horror movies playing. So check them

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out. Honestly, now's the time, folks. I think

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even big mainstream theaters are getting into

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it. are discovering that like bringing back classics

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and especially horror films for special showings

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makes them money so yeah i don't know if there's

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an alamo draft house near you all they always

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do special events but just just do a quick search

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support your theaters because they probably have

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some special events going on for october totally

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yeah and that's it's a good Like you said, good

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reminder, go out to your local neighborhood movie

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theater, whatever it is, because now is the time

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to get back into theaters. Let's keep movie going

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alive, you know? Yeah. Cool. Well, thank all

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of you for hanging out, friends. Please rate

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and review Camp Kaiju wherever you listen. You

00:06:22.569 --> 00:06:25.250
can also send us listener comments at campkaiju

00:06:25.250 --> 00:06:28.930
at gmail .com or on our Instagram page at camp

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underscore kaiju underscore podcast. If you'd

00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:34.279
like to be a featured voice on the show, leave

00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:40.079
a voicemail at 612 -470 -2612 telling us about

00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:42.920
your favorite monster movies and memories. Please

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check out our website, campkaijupodcast .com,

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for more reviews and special content. Merch is

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also available at campkaiju .threadless .com.

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You can become a patron at patreon .com slash

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campkaiju. for discounts, priority comments,

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and access to any live events. As always, we

00:07:02.939 --> 00:07:05.579
want to shout out our current patrons. Thank

00:07:05.579 --> 00:07:09.120
you so much to Jason, Beast Drool, Chris B.,

00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:12.839
Sean, our anonymous patron, and Peggy. We appreciate

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you so much. Thank you again. Thank you so much.

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Coming up on Camp Kaiju, next we're going back

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to the silent era with Lon Chaney's Phantom of

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the Opera. Right now, we have slated to join

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us movie critic Paul McGuire Grimes. Follow him.

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You'll get to know him on the listeners. You'll

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get to know him on the Phantom episode. But he's

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a great dude, knows his stuff. So we're looking

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forward to diving into some movie history, some

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classic, classic horror movie material there.

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Matt. Yeah. I bought, I pre -ordered. He Who

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Gets Slapped. Oh, you haven't seen it yet, though.

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Or have you? I have seen it once before. Okay.

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But Flickr Alley. Are you familiar with Flickr

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Alley? Yeah, yep. Great company. Yeah. Yeah,

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they just released this edition of He Who Gets

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Slapped. And it's gorgeous casing and slipcover.

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Yeah. It's got audio commentary, some other silent

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shorts from the era. Ooh. I think a silent cartoon.

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Yeah, I'm in love with this. I can't wait to

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watch it. I love that movie. It's fantastic.

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It's one of the earliest examples of like scary

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clowns in movies, even though scary is not quite

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the right word. It's more about just a man who

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is like humiliated and like beaten down by life

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and like the toll that it takes on him. You know,

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it's a brutal movie, but it's also like really

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entertaining. There are elements of comedy in

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it. And that is Lon Chaney, right? If I remember

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right. Yeah. He's fantastic in it, of course.

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Yeah. Wonderful movie. Yeah. And Victor Seastrom

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directed it, who did The Phantom Carriage, which

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you introduced me to. Yeah. Love that movie,

00:09:05.940 --> 00:09:08.840
too. Yeah. He Who Gets Slapped is brilliant.

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Horrific. Funny. Just like you said. Awesome.

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I'm a little envious of that Blu -ray. Or is

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it a DVD? Oh, it's a Blu -ray. And it's going

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to be remastered. I can't wait. It's going to

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look so good. So I'm going to do a whole... launch

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anything with when i re -watch phantom oh that

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reminds me okay listeners this is important so

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phantom of the opera the release date is 1925

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however this where you know over 100 years things

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get a little convoluted so the film was re -released

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in 1929 with Some original scenes omitted, some

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added. It's a different cut. However, and I'm

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just speaking for me, most readily available,

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I believe, versions of the film you'll find are

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the 1929 version. And if you're like me and you

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own, if you own like the Kino Lorber Blu -ray,

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it's going to have both versions on there, 25

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and 29. The 1929 version is remastered. That's

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the one that studios put their energy into. So

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it looks really good. It sounds really good.

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I have seen the 1925 version. It's not remastered.

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It's very poor film stock. It's a little harder

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to get through in that regard. So Matt, listeners,

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watch whatever version you want, but just know

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that going into it. That is good to know. Thank

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you for that. I might have to pick up that Blu

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-ray before I watch it myself. Yeah, I'm excited

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to rewatch it. And you know what? The first time

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I watched Phantom of the Opera was on YouTube,

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and I believe it was the 29 cut. So I'll put

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that link in the show notes for Prophecy. And

00:11:06.470 --> 00:11:08.330
listeners, you can just follow that link if you

00:11:08.330 --> 00:11:12.049
want a little help finding the version you want

00:11:12.049 --> 00:11:15.940
to watch. Nice. Yeah. I'm very glad we're bringing

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both Lon Chaney and silent movies to the podcast.

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It's a momentous occasion. Oh, we can't. Oh yeah.

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We got to find some way to celebrate. Yeah. By

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maybe it's a dumb joke. Maybe our episode will

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just be us silent the entire time. There'll be

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nothing to listen to. It'll be great. It'll be

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an hour and a half of music. Just like orchestral

00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:44.059
music. Sounds great. That's like that movie,

00:11:44.120 --> 00:11:46.460
the Mel Brooks movie, that's like almost all

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silent. Is it just called Silent Movie? What's

00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:51.139
that called? Yeah. But there's like one line

00:11:51.139 --> 00:11:52.799
in the movie. I don't want to ruin the joke.

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It's a funny movie. You should check it out if

00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:57.320
you haven't seen it. Yeah. It's an ironic joke

00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:00.840
at the end. It's pretty good. Love that movie.

00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:03.480
We won't actually do that to all you listeners

00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:07.860
out there, though. Just the Patreons. Yeah, exactly.

00:12:07.940 --> 00:12:13.320
The special silent episode of Camp Kaiju. Man,

00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.179
so much good stuff coming up. It's great. Good

00:12:16.179 --> 00:12:19.240
time to be a movie lover wherever you are. Fun

00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:22.120
stuff, for sure. Oh, yeah. Speaking of which,

00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:24.299
so this episode is going to come out October

00:12:24.299 --> 00:12:27.659
4th. So many great classic horror and monster

00:12:27.659 --> 00:12:30.500
movies came out around this time in movie history.

00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:34.039
We have a long list here of some movies that

00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:36.679
came out around this time. Do any titles on this

00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:39.559
list jump out at you, Vincent? Yeah, actually.

00:12:40.220 --> 00:12:44.419
The Black Scorpion from 1955. Do you know that

00:12:44.419 --> 00:12:48.379
one? No, I love the title though. It is right

00:12:48.379 --> 00:12:54.960
in the fad of big bug sci -fi pictures, but the

00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.580
special effects, so the giant scorpions are brought

00:12:58.580 --> 00:13:01.860
to life via stop motion from Willis O 'Brien.

00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:06.019
So it's a late entry from him. By this point,

00:13:06.100 --> 00:13:09.039
Ray Harryhausen had certainly eclipsed him as

00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:12.179
like the master of the stop motion. But Willis

00:13:12.179 --> 00:13:14.159
O 'Brien, I think, does some really good work

00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:17.559
with bringing giant scorpions to life. It's a

00:13:17.559 --> 00:13:21.340
classic creature feature that I like to talk

00:13:21.340 --> 00:13:24.120
about. That sounds amazing. I definitely need

00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:27.840
to watch that. You know, you've turned me on

00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:30.220
to like, well, many different kinds of movies

00:13:30.220 --> 00:13:32.600
here on the podcast, but like, you know, giant

00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:35.379
animal, like especially like ants in the movie

00:13:35.379 --> 00:13:37.139
Them and stuff like that and scorpions in this

00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:40.139
case. Maybe my favorite new subgenre that you've

00:13:40.139 --> 00:13:42.659
kind of opened my eyes to. So thank you for that.

00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:49.120
All right. It's an honor. I'm excited to check

00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:50.440
that out. I will definitely have to do that.

00:13:51.389 --> 00:13:53.409
Which one am I going to call out on this list?

00:13:53.529 --> 00:13:56.129
Let's see here. Well, I mean, the first one I

00:13:56.129 --> 00:13:58.730
want to mention is The Addiction from 1995, but

00:13:58.730 --> 00:14:00.070
only because we're going to be talking about

00:14:00.070 --> 00:14:02.450
that later this season on the podcast. So I'm

00:14:02.450 --> 00:14:04.250
excited to watch that. It's by Abel Ferrara.

00:14:04.370 --> 00:14:06.149
I have not seen that yet. That's a vampire movie.

00:14:06.470 --> 00:14:08.629
Maybe I'll just call out The Old Dark House.

00:14:08.789 --> 00:14:10.269
I feel like I've mentioned that on the podcast

00:14:10.269 --> 00:14:14.090
before. It's by James Whale from 1932, maybe

00:14:14.090 --> 00:14:16.470
even earlier than that. But a really great horror

00:14:16.470 --> 00:14:19.019
comedy. I feel like it's kind of like a warm

00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:20.820
up for Bride of Frankenstein, which is one of

00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:22.860
my favorite movies of all time. The Old Dark

00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:26.519
House is indeed set in an old dark house. And

00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:28.740
it's kind of like a parody a little bit of like

00:14:28.740 --> 00:14:31.159
haunted house stories. And it goes in like very

00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:33.399
bizarre directions from there. That's a really

00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:35.539
great movie. One that I'm due for a rewatch.

00:14:35.659 --> 00:14:37.799
I haven't seen that in a long time either. Same.

00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:41.340
I think about that movie and that's just an easy

00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:45.889
one to watch in October. Perfect, scary. cozy

00:14:45.889 --> 00:14:47.929
up under the blankets of some popcorn type of

00:14:47.929 --> 00:14:51.570
movie. Totally. Yeah. Cool. I think I just decided

00:14:51.570 --> 00:14:53.950
what my October 1st screening is going to be.

00:14:53.990 --> 00:14:58.649
The Old Dark House. Love it. I see that you highlighted

00:14:58.649 --> 00:15:01.049
Night of the Lepus on here too. Oh, you could

00:15:01.049 --> 00:15:05.590
see that? Yep. That's deserving of a shout out

00:15:05.590 --> 00:15:07.009
as well. I've never actually seen that though.

00:15:07.210 --> 00:15:10.750
Me neither, but I know of it. Folks, it's about

00:15:10.750 --> 00:15:14.259
killer rabbits. which is right in line with prophecy.

00:15:14.460 --> 00:15:19.559
The 70s, like when I think of 70s horror movies,

00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:24.960
I think of eco -terror, nature run amok films.

00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:28.240
So that's interesting because Night of the Lepus

00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.840
comes out in 1972. It's about killer rabbits.

00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:36.919
But it's before Jaws, 1975. So like before Jaws,

00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:40.830
you have movies like Lepus, you have... Oh, of

00:15:40.830 --> 00:15:44.210
course I'm blanking on, on, Oh, like frogs 1971.

00:15:44.610 --> 00:15:47.350
I think these are going to be in the tradition

00:15:47.350 --> 00:15:51.149
of the birds riding the coattails of, of that

00:15:51.149 --> 00:15:55.669
eco horror film. But then post jaws, the genre

00:15:55.669 --> 00:15:59.149
like reinvents itself in the mold, like the exact

00:15:59.149 --> 00:16:02.990
mold of Spielberg's film. So then you get movies

00:16:02.990 --> 00:16:07.990
like Orca, like prophecy, like grizzly, like

00:16:07.990 --> 00:16:12.509
piranha. So it's either the birds or Jaws, but

00:16:12.509 --> 00:16:15.490
either way, the 70s has all these killer animal

00:16:15.490 --> 00:16:19.690
movies, which I love. I love talking about these.

00:16:21.129 --> 00:16:23.850
That's a good point. Yeah. There, you know, there's

00:16:23.850 --> 00:16:26.710
a difference between pre -Jaws like creature

00:16:26.710 --> 00:16:28.809
features and post -Jaws for sure. And that seems

00:16:28.809 --> 00:16:30.830
like an obvious thing to say, but it's like so

00:16:30.830 --> 00:16:32.730
clear, like where that distinction is, you know?

00:16:33.370 --> 00:16:35.889
Yeah. Because afterwards they just, they're like

00:16:35.889 --> 00:16:39.850
cookie cutter, beat for beat. remakes of Jaws.

00:16:40.289 --> 00:16:43.649
Right. Yeah. With some like, you know, eco -friendly

00:16:43.649 --> 00:16:47.909
themes thrown in there. Yeah. Yeah. I'd say,

00:16:48.029 --> 00:16:49.710
you know, it wasn't like, this is maybe a little

00:16:49.710 --> 00:16:51.669
bit of a tangent, but I feel like the EPA was

00:16:51.669 --> 00:16:54.129
formed in the early seventies, right? The Environmental

00:16:54.129 --> 00:16:56.669
Protection Agency. So maybe it was just like

00:16:56.669 --> 00:16:58.750
on people's minds at that time as well, you know?

00:16:59.529 --> 00:17:02.370
Right. Yeah. I think there was something, I mean,

00:17:02.370 --> 00:17:04.529
these are all notes I have writing down prophecy

00:17:04.529 --> 00:17:07.130
that I think it is, especially in the beginning

00:17:07.130 --> 00:17:11.289
of this movie, It hits on the, I think the reform

00:17:11.289 --> 00:17:15.450
minded mentality of the seventies. Everyone was

00:17:15.450 --> 00:17:18.269
so disgruntled. The government sucked because

00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:22.150
of Vietnam and Watergate and the economy was

00:17:22.150 --> 00:17:24.809
terrible because there was an oil crisis. And

00:17:24.809 --> 00:17:30.089
we have the creation of the EPA of the endangered

00:17:30.089 --> 00:17:33.109
species act, like all these things to preserve

00:17:33.109 --> 00:17:39.000
the, or to conserve wild areas. And I think Prophecy

00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:43.799
is exemplary of that. Yeah, for sure. It's a

00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:46.119
weird movie. We'll obviously talk about that

00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:48.339
coming up soon here. It has those eco -friendly

00:17:48.339 --> 00:17:50.440
themes. It's kind of a character study. It's

00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:52.400
obviously a very schlocky monster movie at the

00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:55.299
same time. There are themes of encroachment upon

00:17:55.299 --> 00:17:57.700
Native American lands and disrespect toward the

00:17:57.700 --> 00:18:00.960
Native American peoples. So yeah, lots of, you

00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:05.160
know, very 70s era themes going on here. And

00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:09.549
some messy... And interesting ways. I'll just

00:18:09.549 --> 00:18:12.190
say that for now. I love my movies. Messy, but

00:18:12.190 --> 00:18:14.549
interesting. Yeah, I feel like that's what we

00:18:14.549 --> 00:18:18.329
usually go for here on Camp Kaiju. Maybe not

00:18:18.329 --> 00:18:20.410
always. Killdozer, I don't know if you would

00:18:20.410 --> 00:18:23.809
say that's interesting, but maybe it is. I don't

00:18:23.809 --> 00:18:26.309
know. I have special animosity toward the movie

00:18:26.309 --> 00:18:28.390
Killdozer, and I don't really know why, but sorry.

00:18:28.950 --> 00:18:32.009
You know, I always come back to Killdozer as

00:18:32.009 --> 00:18:34.869
like my litmus test. You know, is prophecy...

00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:41.059
Better than Killdozer. I think it is. In my opinion,

00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:43.039
almost everything is better than Killdozer, but

00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:45.799
you like that movie more than I did. So let's

00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:50.000
dive into Prophecy. A motion picture is coming

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.299
that does not cater to fantasy. You will see

00:18:54.299 --> 00:18:57.740
nature's most savage man eating animal. By its

00:18:57.740 --> 00:19:01.700
size alone, it can overpower and devour any human.

00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:10.160
Grizzly. Over 18 feet tall. Over 2 ,000 pounds.

00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:13.559
The largest carnivorous brown beast in the world.

00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:18.579
As the campers come in here, they leave food

00:19:18.579 --> 00:19:20.799
around, the bears get the smell of it, and that's

00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:25.200
it. Well, this is different. This bump's eating

00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:34.130
his victims. one is fair game because this grizzly

00:19:34.130 --> 00:19:39.309
preys on the easiest food of all man 18 feet

00:19:39.309 --> 00:19:43.509
of man eating gut crunching terror the deadliest

00:19:43.509 --> 00:19:55.390
jaws on land belong to grizzly suppose nature

00:19:55.390 --> 00:20:00.549
gave a war and everybody came the snake the bird

00:20:01.309 --> 00:20:06.329
The lizards and frogs. And suppose that the polluters,

00:20:06.329 --> 00:20:10.210
the species on Earth called man, were the enemy

00:20:10.210 --> 00:20:16.470
in that war. I still believe man is master of

00:20:16.470 --> 00:20:19.690
the world. And then, suppose that the human race

00:20:19.690 --> 00:20:48.039
lost. Sam Elliott, Joan Van Ark, Adam Rourke,

00:20:48.140 --> 00:21:29.420
Judy Bates. That night science made its greatest

00:21:29.420 --> 00:21:39.079
mistake. What unknown terror was born that night?

00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:53.660
What is the terrifying mutant that strikes from

00:21:53.660 --> 00:22:11.650
behind the shroud of night? The Leap Us. A night

00:22:11.650 --> 00:22:16.190
of total terror. More shattering than your strangest

00:22:16.190 --> 00:22:21.789
nightmare. What caused the unnatural death, destruction,

00:22:22.150 --> 00:22:28.230
and panic that night of The Leap Us? Janet Leigh.

00:22:29.609 --> 00:22:37.299
Stuart Whitman. Rory Calhoun. And Paul Fix. Night

00:22:37.299 --> 00:22:42.720
of the Leapus. Kill one and thousands take their

00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:46.799
place. What devil creatures growing weight and

00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:50.880
size every day are hidden behind the eyes of

00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:58.960
horror? What can stop them? Night of the Leapus.

00:22:59.899 --> 00:23:02.420
from mgm maybe i'll just talk about a couple

00:23:02.420 --> 00:23:05.019
of these crew members here i'll just blaze through

00:23:05.019 --> 00:23:07.359
them real fast because they have some interesting

00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:09.839
titles on their resumes but like i don't you

00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.759
know not not a lot to say about them per se but

00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:15.839
if you want to add anything about any of these

00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:18.980
crew members please feel free vincent okay I

00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:21.400
was directed by John Frankenheimer, kind of an

00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:23.380
inconsistent director. He made some classics

00:23:23.380 --> 00:23:25.920
early in his career, like Birdman of Alcatraz,

00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:29.059
Seconds, The Manchurian Candidate, The Train.

00:23:29.299 --> 00:23:31.859
And later in the 90s, he made the movie Ronin,

00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:33.960
which is pretty good, some of the best car chases

00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:37.019
of all time. But Frankenheimer also directed

00:23:37.019 --> 00:23:40.460
Reindeer Games and another movie that we've talked

00:23:40.460 --> 00:23:42.980
about on the podcast already, The Island of Dr.

00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:49.140
Moreau. So hit or miss, and maybe... I don't

00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:51.579
know. The early part of his career, maybe a scene

00:23:51.579 --> 00:23:54.220
is better than the latter part, but maybe that's

00:23:54.220 --> 00:23:58.000
unfair. Well, I'll tell you, this movie is better

00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:01.920
made than The Island of Dr. Moreau. Yeah, for

00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.160
sure. I think I could say that. Yeah, and of

00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:06.960
course, The Island of Dr. Moreau had so many

00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:09.279
production difficulties that impacted that too,

00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:12.619
you know? Yeah. But yes, it's absolutely more

00:24:12.619 --> 00:24:18.490
competently made than Dr. Moreau was. A low bar,

00:24:18.609 --> 00:24:21.670
perhaps. Prophecy was also written by David Seltzer.

00:24:21.789 --> 00:24:24.390
He wrote The Omen pretty shortly before Prophecy,

00:24:24.390 --> 00:24:26.970
so he was kind of riding the high of that. He

00:24:26.970 --> 00:24:28.829
also wrote some other movies like The Other Side

00:24:28.829 --> 00:24:32.009
of the Mountain, Bird on a Wire, My Giant, and

00:24:32.009 --> 00:24:34.690
Dragonfly, and wrote and directed the movie Shining

00:24:34.690 --> 00:24:37.589
Through, a war movie from the 90s. Some of those

00:24:37.589 --> 00:24:39.869
titles may be not considered very highly, like

00:24:39.869 --> 00:24:42.890
My Giant, for example. So David Seltzer, maybe

00:24:42.890 --> 00:24:45.250
another inconsistent artist working on this movie.

00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:50.059
Cinematography on Prophecy is by Harry Stradling

00:24:50.059 --> 00:24:52.920
Jr. He shot some well -known movies in the 70s

00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:56.640
like Little Big Man, McQ, Rooster Cogburn, and

00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:59.180
Convoy, the latter of which was directed by Sam

00:24:59.180 --> 00:25:01.660
Peckinpah, but is generally not seen as very

00:25:01.660 --> 00:25:05.259
good. Music is by Leonard Rosenman. I was surprised

00:25:05.259 --> 00:25:07.519
by some of the great movies Rosenman did the

00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:09.779
music for and won some Oscars for them as well,

00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:12.759
like East of Eden, Rebel Without a Cause, Barry

00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:15.130
Lyndon. several of the Planet of the Apes movies,

00:25:15.349 --> 00:25:18.410
and then some weird outliers like RoboCop 2 and

00:25:18.410 --> 00:25:21.890
Star Trek 4, The Voyage Home. So these filmographies

00:25:21.890 --> 00:25:25.109
are all over the place for these guys. One last

00:25:25.109 --> 00:25:28.349
example here, the editing is by Tom Rolfe, another

00:25:28.349 --> 00:25:31.109
very accomplished crew member. He edited films

00:25:31.109 --> 00:25:34.269
for directors like Martin Scorsese, such as Taxi

00:25:34.269 --> 00:25:36.569
Driver and New York, New York. He worked with

00:25:36.569 --> 00:25:39.809
Paul Schrader on Blue Collar and Hardcore, Michael

00:25:39.809 --> 00:25:42.640
Cimino on the movie Heaven's Gate. Ridley Scott

00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.720
on the movie Black Rain, and Michael Mann on

00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:48.599
the classic action movie Heat. So some pretty

00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.779
accomplished titles for the crew members in this

00:25:51.779 --> 00:25:56.980
list. I'll say. You know, yeah, I'm going to

00:25:56.980 --> 00:26:00.460
keep coming back to how I perceive Prophecy to

00:26:00.460 --> 00:26:04.660
be rather well made. At least better than I thought.

00:26:05.740 --> 00:26:10.819
It's the bear costume notwithstanding this movie.

00:26:11.849 --> 00:26:15.869
I can take seriously, actually, because I noticed

00:26:15.869 --> 00:26:18.250
the music and I didn't know anything about Leonard

00:26:18.250 --> 00:26:21.210
Rosenman, but I thought this music is effectively

00:26:21.210 --> 00:26:26.930
underscoring or setting the atmosphere. So I

00:26:26.930 --> 00:26:29.569
find that pretty interesting. For sure, yeah.

00:26:29.690 --> 00:26:31.950
I feel like I have good and bad things to say

00:26:31.950 --> 00:26:35.190
about the formal style of this movie. For me,

00:26:35.210 --> 00:26:36.730
generally, I think it works better towards the

00:26:36.730 --> 00:26:38.210
beginning. The beginning is really striking,

00:26:38.289 --> 00:26:40.549
and I was kind of engaged in the movie right

00:26:40.549 --> 00:26:42.230
off the bat. And then there are some things later

00:26:42.230 --> 00:26:45.650
on, aside from the bear costume, that maybe don't

00:26:45.650 --> 00:26:47.589
work for me very well. But I'll get more into

00:26:47.589 --> 00:26:50.289
that later. Okay. Sounds like we're actually

00:26:50.289 --> 00:26:52.750
running parallel on this. It sounds like we're

00:26:52.750 --> 00:26:57.710
not too diametrically opposed. So far, yeah.

00:26:58.769 --> 00:27:00.890
We'll see if that continues to be the case, though.

00:27:01.309 --> 00:27:05.960
Yeah, okay. I don't want to, you know, spoil

00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:09.220
the lead or whatever right away. Oh, yeah. But

00:27:09.220 --> 00:27:11.960
yeah, similarly, I feel like the cast is kind

00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:15.140
of a strange hodgepodge in this movie. Do you

00:27:15.140 --> 00:27:17.460
want to talk about any of the cast members? Sure.

00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:21.339
We have Robert Foxworth as Dr. Bob Verne, who's

00:27:21.339 --> 00:27:24.960
a longtime TV and film actor, and he plays our

00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:29.420
lead male in Prophecy. Joining him is co -star

00:27:29.420 --> 00:27:34.319
and everyone's favorite. star of the Rocky series,

00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:38.019
Talia Shire. She plays Maggie Verne, Bob's wife.

00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:41.400
She was a member, is a member. She's still with

00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:44.680
us. She is a member of the Coppola family, Francis

00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:47.880
Ford's sister. I always forget that. I always

00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:51.180
forget she's a Coppola. Yeah. Crazy. Big family.

00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:56.680
Yeah. And Nick Cage too. Yup. Yup. Giovanni Ribisi,

00:27:56.779 --> 00:28:00.180
I think is as well. Some others. Yeah. Crazy.

00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:03.740
Well, Talia Shire is here. She was well known

00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:06.980
at this point for her appearances in The Godfather

00:28:06.980 --> 00:28:10.519
and Rocky. She also appeared in The Dunwich Horror

00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:15.160
in 1970 and Old Boyfriends in 1979. She was nominated

00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:17.220
for the Academy Awards for Best Supporting Actress

00:28:17.220 --> 00:28:20.480
and Best Actress, respectively, for The Godfather

00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:23.900
Part 2 and Rocky. Nice. God, I need to revisit

00:28:23.900 --> 00:28:26.220
Part 2 of The Godfather. It's been a long time.

00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:29.519
Yeah, yeah, for me too. And the Rocky movies.

00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:32.079
It's been a very long time for me. But yeah,

00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:34.359
I mean, it's the 50th anniversary of the first

00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:36.859
Rocky, I think. Or was it 76? It's right around

00:28:36.859 --> 00:28:39.819
there anyway. So good time to revisit. I think

00:28:39.819 --> 00:28:43.599
it won Best Picture that year over Jaws. Right.

00:28:43.640 --> 00:28:46.359
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Good reminder that

00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:48.000
I have to watch those movies. I also want to

00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.059
shout out Old Boyfriends real quick. That's written

00:28:50.059 --> 00:28:52.859
by Paul Schrader and directed by Joan Tewksbury,

00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:54.759
I think is her name. It's a really good kind

00:28:54.759 --> 00:28:57.619
of romantic comedy drama. And Talia Shire is

00:28:57.619 --> 00:28:59.220
fantastic in it. So I want to shout out that

00:28:59.220 --> 00:29:01.859
movie as well. Nice. Maybe I'll check that out.

00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:08.000
Joining both Talia Shire and Robert Foxworth

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.539
is our third big actor in this movie, Armand

00:29:11.539 --> 00:29:15.849
Asante. Armand Asante plays the Native American

00:29:15.849 --> 00:29:21.450
activist John Hawks. However, Asante is not Native

00:29:21.450 --> 00:29:25.529
American. He is Irish -Italian. And he, you know,

00:29:25.569 --> 00:29:29.029
Matt, as you rightly say, not a good look. But

00:29:29.029 --> 00:29:33.490
maybe best known, Armand Asante is for playing

00:29:33.490 --> 00:29:37.289
Gotti in the 1996 film of the same name. Also

00:29:37.289 --> 00:29:40.529
appeared in bombs like Judge Dredd, Striptease,

00:29:40.650 --> 00:29:44.180
and Fatal Instinct. I will say Armand Asante,

00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:47.079
I think gives a very, I think he's very good

00:29:47.079 --> 00:29:48.819
in this movie. I think he's very committed. That's

00:29:48.819 --> 00:29:52.180
the word. He's very committed and plays it sincerely.

00:29:52.940 --> 00:29:57.680
Yeah. Casting, however, is not a good look. Right.

00:29:57.779 --> 00:30:00.559
And, you know, that's the, you know, this movie

00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:03.099
was made in 1979 when I was probably, I mean,

00:30:03.099 --> 00:30:05.740
certainly less of a consideration for filmmakers

00:30:05.740 --> 00:30:08.460
and producers than it is now. It's, I'm, you

00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:10.859
know. It's obviously a good thing that like we're

00:30:10.859 --> 00:30:12.880
paying more attention to representation and the

00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:14.480
actors that are playing those roles nowadays.

00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:17.700
But yeah, maybe they didn't even consider that

00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:20.180
at the time, you know, which is a shame. Right.

00:30:20.980 --> 00:30:24.140
And then rounding out our selected cast here

00:30:24.140 --> 00:30:26.359
that we're going to play. Oh, is the monster

00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:31.140
Kevin Peter Hall. Yes, he was a seven foot two

00:30:31.140 --> 00:30:33.259
actor. He also played the Predator in the first

00:30:33.259 --> 00:30:36.160
two movies of that series and Harry in Harry

00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:40.230
and the Hendersons. Yeah, I didn't know Kevin

00:30:40.230 --> 00:30:43.910
Peter Hall was in this movie. Yeah, he's great.

00:30:43.990 --> 00:30:45.569
I like him. I love Harry and the Hendersons.

00:30:45.569 --> 00:30:47.049
We have to talk about that movie at some point

00:30:47.049 --> 00:30:50.650
as well. Yeah, and more Predator movies too.

00:30:50.890 --> 00:30:54.990
Yeah. I mean, these are iconic roles that you

00:30:54.990 --> 00:30:56.990
have to credit the actor and the suit for bringing

00:30:56.990 --> 00:31:00.339
to life. Totally. Yeah. You do that a lot with

00:31:00.339 --> 00:31:02.740
the, you know, Godzilla and other kaiju movies,

00:31:02.819 --> 00:31:04.900
like shouting out the actors who are in the suits.

00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:06.819
And I think that's great. Like, you know, most

00:31:06.819 --> 00:31:09.779
people don't really know their names or maybe

00:31:09.779 --> 00:31:11.559
even really pay a lot of attention to the actors,

00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:14.980
but they do a lot of great work. Yeah. Good job,

00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:18.880
Kevin Peter Hall. Yeah. Right. I mean, look,

00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:20.759
even though everybody ridicules the monster in

00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:22.759
this movie, it's not Kevin Peter Hall's fault,

00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.220
you know? Yeah, that's where my mind was going.

00:31:26.210 --> 00:31:30.049
He could have been directed better. Like everything

00:31:30.049 --> 00:31:33.869
around the portrayal of this monster should have

00:31:33.869 --> 00:31:39.029
been tighter. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. Which we'll

00:31:39.029 --> 00:31:41.529
talk about in a moment here with the production.

00:31:41.630 --> 00:31:46.309
So the screenwriter, David Seltzer, he based

00:31:46.309 --> 00:31:49.250
the story partly on a real life tragedy that

00:31:49.250 --> 00:31:53.089
took place in 1958 in the Japanese city of Minamata.

00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:56.539
At that time in Minamata, mercury waste was dumped

00:31:56.539 --> 00:31:59.259
into a nearby river from a chemical plant and

00:31:59.259 --> 00:32:03.140
caused severe mutations and neurological degenerations

00:32:03.140 --> 00:32:06.079
among the locals, which included paralysis, you

00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:09.259
know, insanity. I forget some of the other examples

00:32:09.259 --> 00:32:10.920
that were listed there of the side effects, but

00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:13.740
really devastating. And I think I read that something

00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:15.940
like 100 ,000 people were affected by this. So

00:32:15.940 --> 00:32:17.960
just like an enormous tragedy in Japan at the

00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:21.720
time. Yeah, and including pregnant women and

00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:26.099
their fetuses. So all that narrative and prophecy

00:32:26.099 --> 00:32:29.940
is ripped straight from the headlines. Yeah,

00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:32.720
right. And, you know, maybe it's no surprise

00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:35.039
that if that happened in 1958, and then there

00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:36.759
were, although I can't think of other specific

00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:39.059
examples, like other similar tragedies throughout

00:32:39.059 --> 00:32:42.279
the 60s, maybe no surprise that themes of, you

00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:44.980
know, toxins in the environment and corporate

00:32:44.980 --> 00:32:47.500
pollution and things like that were pervasive

00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:50.240
at the time. Yeah, and since we're on the topic.

00:32:50.730 --> 00:32:56.250
Are you familiar about the thalidomide scandal?

00:32:57.750 --> 00:33:01.490
It sounds familiar. Yeah. Billy Joel mentions

00:33:01.490 --> 00:33:04.950
it in We Didn't Start the Fire. Children of thalidomide.

00:33:06.029 --> 00:33:10.670
But all jokes aside, this was a tranquilizer,

00:33:10.730 --> 00:33:14.509
sleeping pill sedative that was prescribed to

00:33:14.509 --> 00:33:19.190
women in the 50s and 60s. And it caused horrendous.

00:33:19.690 --> 00:33:24.369
birth defects in children. And it was a huge

00:33:24.369 --> 00:33:27.150
deal. The pictures are downright heartbreaking

00:33:27.150 --> 00:33:31.230
when you look it up on Wikipedia of these children.

00:33:31.490 --> 00:33:34.089
So that went through my mind. I've read up a

00:33:34.089 --> 00:33:37.670
lot on Larry Cohen's It's Alive, which is from

00:33:37.670 --> 00:33:44.029
the early 70s. That film as a metaphor for anxiety

00:33:44.029 --> 00:33:52.109
around toxins and pollutants affecting And, you

00:33:52.109 --> 00:33:55.569
know, women and parents not knowing, like, is

00:33:55.569 --> 00:33:57.250
my baby going to come out okay or is it going

00:33:57.250 --> 00:34:01.630
to be a monster? So I think prophecy is also

00:34:01.630 --> 00:34:06.029
tapping into that same pool of anxiety. So, yeah,

00:34:06.130 --> 00:34:08.730
I just wanted to throw that in there too. Yeah,

00:34:08.730 --> 00:34:10.889
no, it's a good point. And I guess there's the

00:34:10.889 --> 00:34:13.670
controversy around DDT too, which became a little

00:34:13.670 --> 00:34:17.530
more pronounced or more widespread in the 1960s.

00:34:17.980 --> 00:34:19.900
I know there was a book, A Silent Spring, that

00:34:19.900 --> 00:34:22.719
was kind of about that. So, you know, all these

00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:25.500
stories and all these kind of controversies coming

00:34:25.500 --> 00:34:28.780
out in the open around the same time. But you're

00:34:28.780 --> 00:34:32.380
totally right that the theme of pregnancies being

00:34:32.380 --> 00:34:37.159
affected by these things, it's an emotional kind

00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:40.239
of subplot, I think, in Prophecy. A lot of the

00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:42.559
stuff in this movie is pretty silly. But I think

00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:45.880
Talia Shire's character, she's... pregnant, but

00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:47.559
she doesn't initially tell her husband about

00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:49.360
that. And then when she finds out that there's

00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:53.559
this, you know, mercury poisoning in this area

00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:55.739
where they are in the movie that is affecting

00:34:55.739 --> 00:34:57.780
the wildlife, including this kind of monstrous

00:34:57.780 --> 00:35:00.679
bear creature, and that kind of adds to her emotional

00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:03.539
anxiety that she's already feeling, it's really

00:35:03.539 --> 00:35:05.619
powerful. And I think Shire does a great job

00:35:05.619 --> 00:35:09.320
of conveying that. Yeah, agreed. So Prophecy

00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:12.360
was filmed in British Columbia, Canada in 1978.

00:35:12.940 --> 00:35:14.900
This was actually one of the first movies that

00:35:14.900 --> 00:35:17.159
made the region very popular for film production.

00:35:17.500 --> 00:35:19.760
Ever since then, it's kind of become one of the

00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:23.380
new Hollywoods or the Canadian Hollywood. A lot

00:35:23.380 --> 00:35:25.179
of movies and TV shows have been filmed there.

00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:27.500
And Prophecy was one of the first to take advantage

00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:30.519
of that filming location and tax breaks and things

00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:35.239
of that nature. The design of the monster. Here

00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:36.760
we go. We're getting into the good stuff in the

00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:40.639
movie right now. The not so good stuff, perhaps.

00:35:41.139 --> 00:35:42.960
The design of the monster went through a lot

00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:45.119
of changes in the movie. It was initially supposed

00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:47.820
to be much stranger. It was kind of meant to

00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:50.739
be like a chimera of all the different animals

00:35:50.739 --> 00:35:52.420
in the forest. So it was supposed to be this

00:35:52.420 --> 00:35:54.920
totally one of a kind monster that nobody had

00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:57.260
ever seen before. And then Frankenheimer saw

00:35:57.260 --> 00:35:59.679
the initial concept and he was like, no, it needs

00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:01.860
to look more like a bear. And that's the direction

00:36:01.860 --> 00:36:04.599
they went in, which, you know, for better or

00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:07.199
worse, it is amusing, but I feel like the initial

00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:09.579
concept probably would have been a lot scarier.

00:36:11.019 --> 00:36:14.219
Yeah, I'm thinking of it from a producer's point

00:36:14.219 --> 00:36:19.340
of view. I'm thinking just straight up bear is

00:36:19.340 --> 00:36:22.519
going to save me money on the production side,

00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:26.659
on the makeup side. So, I mean, I don't want

00:36:26.659 --> 00:36:30.059
to say that that decision was driven by money.

00:36:30.710 --> 00:36:33.690
But it could have been a motivating factor. Yeah,

00:36:33.789 --> 00:36:35.389
I think you're totally right about that. Yeah.

00:36:36.530 --> 00:36:39.170
Yeah, so on that note, the producers tried to

00:36:39.170 --> 00:36:41.690
hire Rick Baker and Stan Winston to do the creature

00:36:41.690 --> 00:36:44.030
effects, but they were unable to do so. They

00:36:44.030 --> 00:36:46.190
eventually got Tom Berman to do the creature

00:36:46.190 --> 00:36:49.769
effects instead. You know, no shade against Tom

00:36:49.769 --> 00:36:51.449
Berman. I don't really know a lot about him,

00:36:51.469 --> 00:36:54.809
to be honest. I get the sense that, like, the...

00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:58.119
not so great creature costume in this movie is

00:36:58.119 --> 00:37:00.599
not necessarily Berman's fault, but maybe more

00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:02.860
the overall concept and the direction they went

00:37:02.860 --> 00:37:06.920
in. Yeah, perhaps I'm looking them up. He, he,

00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:10.800
he worked with John Chambers on planet of the

00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:14.920
apes. He went on to do a lot of TV Emmy nominated

00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:19.500
work. Yeah. So he obviously, so he had a resume.

00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:24.820
Yeah. So yeah, no shade to him. It seems like

00:37:24.820 --> 00:37:27.960
there were other extenuating circumstances, perhaps,

00:37:28.059 --> 00:37:32.860
for this bear costume. Yeah, right. If I can

00:37:32.860 --> 00:37:34.860
go on a brief tangent, what did you think of

00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:37.960
the effects for the bear cubs, the babies that

00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:40.199
the monster has in this movie? I was just thinking

00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:43.460
how those are more effective, I think. Maybe

00:37:43.460 --> 00:37:46.059
because they're smaller scale. Maybe they're

00:37:46.059 --> 00:37:50.000
just probably puppets. They could be animatronic,

00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:55.230
but they're probably puppets. And yeah, I think

00:37:55.230 --> 00:37:59.449
they are revolting creations of creature effects.

00:37:59.789 --> 00:38:03.730
I found myself, it was uneasy looking at them.

00:38:03.809 --> 00:38:07.210
Just like their skin is peeling off and their

00:38:07.210 --> 00:38:11.670
cries. They're seeing extreme close -ups. Yeah,

00:38:11.710 --> 00:38:14.789
I thought they were done really well on a small

00:38:14.789 --> 00:38:18.510
scale. Very good. Yeah, I thought so too. They

00:38:18.510 --> 00:38:21.750
reminded me of, you know, first of all of It's

00:38:21.750 --> 00:38:23.949
Alive, a movie that you just mentioned, and certainly

00:38:23.949 --> 00:38:26.429
a lot of overlaps there. But the design of those

00:38:26.429 --> 00:38:28.730
cubs reminded me of Eraserhead too, the David

00:38:28.730 --> 00:38:31.670
Lynch movie that came out two years before Prophecy.

00:38:31.849 --> 00:38:34.349
Of course, a very different movie. Eraserhead

00:38:34.349 --> 00:38:37.110
is just so surreal and dreamlike, like many of

00:38:37.110 --> 00:38:39.630
David Lynch's movies are. But there's like a

00:38:39.630 --> 00:38:42.150
visual similarity between the baby in Eraserhead

00:38:42.150 --> 00:38:45.280
and the bear cubs in this movie. which I doubt

00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:47.019
was intentional, but just a strange coincidence.

00:38:47.900 --> 00:38:50.940
Initially, Prophecy was much more violent than

00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:53.619
the finished cut that we got, and it actually

00:38:53.619 --> 00:38:56.139
is still pretty gory. There are some decapitations,

00:38:56.260 --> 00:38:59.440
there's some, you know, like, well, we haven't

00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:01.260
even talked about the sleeping bag scene yet,

00:39:01.300 --> 00:39:04.019
which isn't really gory, but is, like, very amusing.

00:39:04.219 --> 00:39:05.739
But there's definitely some violence in this

00:39:05.739 --> 00:39:07.980
movie. Initially, though, the movie had even

00:39:07.980 --> 00:39:10.900
more scenes of gore and violence. Frankenheimer

00:39:10.900 --> 00:39:14.300
cut those out before the film was released. I've

00:39:14.300 --> 00:39:16.239
read differing stories as to whether that was

00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:18.579
Frankenheimer's own decision or if the studio

00:39:18.579 --> 00:39:20.880
kind of made him do that to try to get a PG rating

00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:23.940
and thus more ticket sales. I feel like the truth

00:39:23.940 --> 00:39:26.780
is probably somewhere in between the two. Right.

00:39:26.820 --> 00:39:29.659
And that's a good call out. At this time in 1979,

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.960
there was no PG -13. So you're either PG or you

00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:38.159
are R, which could be a big difference when you're

00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:41.179
talking box office. So PG, you're still probably

00:39:41.179 --> 00:39:44.559
going to get. younger people kids come into this

00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:49.019
movie i think that's a mistake right it's not

00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:53.940
not family friendly even jaws ostensibly is not

00:39:53.940 --> 00:39:59.980
and yet it's i think it's it's okay in terms

00:39:59.980 --> 00:40:03.440
of the violence in jaws yeah but the violence

00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:09.549
in in prophecy it's it's brutal at times Yeah,

00:40:09.549 --> 00:40:12.690
absolutely. And there are like heavy human themes

00:40:12.690 --> 00:40:14.929
in this movie, too. I mean, we already talked

00:40:14.929 --> 00:40:16.909
about some of them, you know, oppression of Native

00:40:16.909 --> 00:40:19.510
American communities. Abortion is mentioned at

00:40:19.510 --> 00:40:21.829
one point and whether Talia Shire and her husband

00:40:21.829 --> 00:40:24.369
want to make that decision. So, yeah, you would

00:40:24.369 --> 00:40:26.409
not think that kids who saw this movie would

00:40:26.409 --> 00:40:29.409
really get a lot out of those themes. No, but

00:40:29.409 --> 00:40:33.469
what they will get a lot out of is a duel between

00:40:33.469 --> 00:40:41.010
a chainsaw and an axe. Yeah. Yeah, that's a strange

00:40:41.010 --> 00:40:44.110
scene. I feel like maybe we should describe that

00:40:44.110 --> 00:40:46.250
a little bit more, which I'm happy to do if you

00:40:46.250 --> 00:40:51.190
want. So initially when the Verns go, well, maybe

00:40:51.190 --> 00:40:52.730
we should talk about the story of the movie a

00:40:52.730 --> 00:40:55.690
little bit more. So the Verns, the scientist

00:40:55.690 --> 00:40:59.010
played by Robert Foxworth and his wife, go up

00:40:59.010 --> 00:41:01.130
to Maine to investigate the disappearance of

00:41:01.130 --> 00:41:03.630
three lumberjacks. And there's this lumber mill

00:41:03.630 --> 00:41:07.079
that has recently opened in this community. And

00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:09.619
the lumber mill, like the director of the lumber

00:41:09.619 --> 00:41:11.659
mill says that the disappearance of the lumberjacks

00:41:11.659 --> 00:41:14.219
is due to the Native Americans who live here,

00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:17.480
whose land has been intruded upon, who have been

00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:20.139
disrespected by the lumber company. But of course,

00:41:20.139 --> 00:41:21.739
the director of the lumber company is just like,

00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:24.719
oh, no, they're just rowdy and violent and it's

00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:26.480
all their fault. And of course, the Native American

00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:29.539
community rightfully says this is our land and

00:41:29.539 --> 00:41:32.360
they are harming the environment. So that's like

00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:34.840
the violence and the animosity between these.

00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:37.619
Two communities. So this scene that you're talking

00:41:37.619 --> 00:41:41.380
about is like one of the employees for the lumber

00:41:41.380 --> 00:41:44.440
mill has a chainsaw, and then the Native American

00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:47.320
character John Hawks has an axe. And there's

00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:49.900
this duel between them almost immediately when

00:41:49.900 --> 00:41:52.980
the Verns go up to this kind of forest community.

00:41:53.420 --> 00:41:56.619
It's a strange scene. It's like an action brawl

00:41:56.619 --> 00:41:58.920
moment that almost is out of Dukes of Hazzard,

00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.539
but it's also like very unsettling at the same

00:42:01.539 --> 00:42:07.110
time. Because the threat is real. It wasn't played

00:42:07.110 --> 00:42:11.369
for laughs. I mean, it is campy just on the surface.

00:42:11.429 --> 00:42:14.869
But again, Armand Asante is taking this very

00:42:14.869 --> 00:42:17.809
seriously. Nobody has a tongue in their cheek

00:42:17.809 --> 00:42:21.849
here. And the way it's directed, you don't know

00:42:21.849 --> 00:42:26.170
if the John Hawks character is going to die or

00:42:26.170 --> 00:42:29.550
not. Because he's willing to die under this chainsaw

00:42:29.550 --> 00:42:33.230
to protect the forest. So I think it's directed

00:42:33.230 --> 00:42:38.949
completely for, I don't know, seriously. Yeah.

00:42:40.349 --> 00:42:43.170
But, but it's, it's also silly. It also scratches

00:42:43.170 --> 00:42:46.369
that 10 year old itch that I have as a boy where

00:42:46.369 --> 00:42:48.809
I'm like, yeah, this is awesome. Let me see a

00:42:48.809 --> 00:42:52.309
chainsaw versus an ax. Right. Yeah. And I think

00:42:52.309 --> 00:42:54.230
everything is so over the top. Well, maybe not

00:42:54.230 --> 00:42:56.210
everything, but like the political commentary

00:42:56.210 --> 00:42:59.329
is over the top in this movie. It's, it is meant

00:42:59.329 --> 00:43:02.150
very seriously, very earnestly. And yet there's

00:43:02.150 --> 00:43:04.670
no subtlety to it at all. And not really very

00:43:04.670 --> 00:43:06.769
much depth to it either. It's kind of just like

00:43:06.769 --> 00:43:09.190
the evil corporation against the, you know, oppressed

00:43:09.190 --> 00:43:11.710
native Americans. And that's a worthy theme,

00:43:11.809 --> 00:43:16.050
but it's like, just so like melodramatically

00:43:16.050 --> 00:43:18.449
portrayed. It does kind of come off as a little

00:43:18.449 --> 00:43:22.550
campy. Yeah. Yeah. It's a pulp film, you know,

00:43:22.550 --> 00:43:24.849
you dress it up with all the talent behind the

00:43:24.849 --> 00:43:27.829
camera in front of the camera, but like, In its

00:43:27.829 --> 00:43:31.969
DNA, this is a B -movie thriller, and you're

00:43:31.969 --> 00:43:35.050
going to get a lot of goofy moments for all the

00:43:35.050 --> 00:43:40.409
heart that it does have. Yeah, right. Yeah. I'm

00:43:40.409 --> 00:43:44.050
just, you know, how weird this movie is becomes

00:43:44.050 --> 00:43:46.110
increasingly clear the more we talk about it,

00:43:46.150 --> 00:43:48.369
you know? And the longer it goes on, too. Like

00:43:48.369 --> 00:43:50.369
you said, I was with you. Like, in the beginning

00:43:50.369 --> 00:43:52.170
of this movie, I'm like, all right, this is like

00:43:52.170 --> 00:43:56.030
a drama, getting to know characters. getting

00:43:56.030 --> 00:43:58.590
to know the world the stakes but then yeah by

00:43:58.590 --> 00:44:00.869
the end you're just like all like all the dressing

00:44:00.869 --> 00:44:04.170
falls apart and you're just left with this this

00:44:04.170 --> 00:44:08.650
bare bones story no pun intended and yeah it's

00:44:08.650 --> 00:44:11.889
it's it just like do like devolves on itself

00:44:11.889 --> 00:44:18.119
it's yeah it's weird yeah it is indeed yeah One

00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:20.639
possible reason for that, and the last thing

00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:22.599
I'll mention in our production backstory section

00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:25.840
here, is Frankenheimer later admitted to his

00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:28.659
biographer, Charles Champlin, that he was going

00:44:28.659 --> 00:44:30.880
through a tough period of alcoholism around this

00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:33.260
time. He said that he was drunk pretty much every

00:44:33.260 --> 00:44:36.179
day on set. Robert Foxworth, or no, actually,

00:44:36.219 --> 00:44:38.559
it was the writer, David Seltzer, who also kind

00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:40.800
of said that, like, Frankenheimer was just drunk

00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:43.579
every day. And that's, you know, I mean, that's

00:44:43.579 --> 00:44:45.519
unfortunate, and I don't mean to, like, attribute

00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:48.699
the movie as sort of, like, What's the word?

00:44:48.780 --> 00:44:50.860
I guess sloppiness. I'll just use that word again.

00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:52.840
Like for that reason, that seems a little bit

00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:55.820
insensitive to Frankenheimer, but he was maybe

00:44:55.820 --> 00:44:57.559
not going through a great period when he made

00:44:57.559 --> 00:45:02.039
this movie as well. Yeah, yeah. But all of that

00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:04.980
contributed to a kind of not super successful

00:45:04.980 --> 00:45:08.440
release of this movie in 1979. It was released

00:45:08.440 --> 00:45:11.920
by Paramount in June of that year, one week before

00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:15.110
20th Century Fox released Alien. So you have

00:45:15.110 --> 00:45:17.489
maybe the best monster movie of all time coming

00:45:17.489 --> 00:45:20.130
out a week after Prophecy, which is a sort of

00:45:20.130 --> 00:45:22.650
unfortunate coincidence for this movie. And I

00:45:22.650 --> 00:45:25.070
read a lot of reviews, including Siskel and Ebert,

00:45:25.150 --> 00:45:29.510
comparing Prophecy to Alien, which is so unfortunate

00:45:29.510 --> 00:45:33.789
for Prophecy. But also, I don't think it's totally

00:45:33.789 --> 00:45:37.449
on the money. Because like Ebert says, Prophecy

00:45:37.449 --> 00:45:42.170
is just Alien, but in a forest. Like, I get it,

00:45:42.230 --> 00:45:46.510
but... Also, then Jaws is just, or Alien is just

00:45:46.510 --> 00:45:49.690
Jaws in space. Like, you could play that game

00:45:49.690 --> 00:45:52.429
all day. I think what Prophecy and Alien are

00:45:52.429 --> 00:45:56.389
doing are different, ultimately. But yes, they

00:45:56.389 --> 00:45:59.889
both have monsters hunting down a team of people.

00:46:00.409 --> 00:46:03.230
Yeah. Yeah, and the similarities pretty much

00:46:03.230 --> 00:46:05.929
end there. Like, I love Alien. It's one of the

00:46:05.929 --> 00:46:07.989
best monster movies ever, of course. But like,

00:46:08.030 --> 00:46:10.860
you know... prophecy is trying to include some

00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:13.780
social commentary and some like human relationships

00:46:13.780 --> 00:46:15.739
that alien doesn't really even try to attempt.

00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:18.059
So for me, that's the main reason that comparison

00:46:18.059 --> 00:46:21.340
is like not really fair to, to either movie really,

00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:26.340
you know, but maybe also helps to explain why

00:46:26.340 --> 00:46:28.019
this movie didn't do very well at the box office.

00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:32.639
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a stark value in or

00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:37.139
a stark difference in, in value. Yeah. In these

00:46:37.139 --> 00:46:41.059
two movies. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Case in point,

00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:45.139
Prophecy made $22 .7 million at the U .S. box

00:46:45.139 --> 00:46:48.000
office that didn't quite make back its budget,

00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:50.760
including its marketing budget. And it was really

00:46:50.760 --> 00:46:52.659
negatively reviewed when it came out. You already

00:46:52.659 --> 00:46:55.159
alluded to that with Roger Ebert's review. Some

00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:57.960
other critics called it trivial, an indoctrination

00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:01.340
course in liberal guilt. Other critics, which,

00:47:01.460 --> 00:47:03.179
you know, I understand what they're talking about

00:47:03.179 --> 00:47:05.039
there. Although it does seem kind of unfair.

00:47:05.550 --> 00:47:07.329
Other critics complained about its cardboard

00:47:07.329 --> 00:47:10.570
characters and a story so stupid it's irresistible,

00:47:10.690 --> 00:47:13.309
which is kind of a funny quote. And the story,

00:47:13.389 --> 00:47:15.710
I don't know if the story is stupid, although

00:47:15.710 --> 00:47:18.989
its execution is kind of stupid sometimes. Agreed.

00:47:19.329 --> 00:47:23.050
Yeah. I'm always a fan, and I've written stories,

00:47:23.429 --> 00:47:26.309
I've written plays like this, of just kind of

00:47:26.309 --> 00:47:29.309
like, keep it simple. Like, you don't need to

00:47:29.309 --> 00:47:31.449
reinvent the wheel with a genre movie sometimes.

00:47:32.510 --> 00:47:36.690
If you want to write a movie, about a group of

00:47:36.690 --> 00:47:39.070
people coming together with competing interests,

00:47:39.349 --> 00:47:42.809
but ultimately they have to overcome those differences

00:47:42.809 --> 00:47:47.869
to defeat the monster. You know, Spielberg did

00:47:47.869 --> 00:47:50.210
it with Jaws. Nobody's knocking him for his story.

00:47:51.070 --> 00:47:54.570
So it's like, I don't know. It all comes down

00:47:54.570 --> 00:47:57.349
to execution, obviously, which I agree. Prophecy

00:47:57.349 --> 00:48:00.489
is not well executed a lot of the times, but

00:48:00.489 --> 00:48:03.289
I'm not going to knock it for just doing a classic

00:48:03.289 --> 00:48:08.510
story. As cliche as it might be. Right. Yeah.

00:48:08.789 --> 00:48:11.269
Yeah. Ultimately, it's a monster movie, again,

00:48:11.369 --> 00:48:14.969
with social commentary and attempts at human

00:48:14.969 --> 00:48:17.690
drama. And like that, you know, that's a worthwhile

00:48:17.690 --> 00:48:19.690
template. Like a lot of people have done that

00:48:19.690 --> 00:48:22.599
before. So, yeah. But, you know, the critics

00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:25.039
weren't the only ones who did not like this movie.

00:48:25.139 --> 00:48:27.480
Even many of the people involved with it did

00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:30.019
not like it after it came out. John Frankenheimer

00:48:30.019 --> 00:48:32.840
himself said that the potential of the project

00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:35.000
was much greater than the finished version. He

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:37.480
admitted that he was unhappy with the way it

00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:40.099
turned out. And then the screenwriter, David

00:48:40.099 --> 00:48:43.000
Seltzer, had even more vicious things to say

00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:47.400
about it. David Seltzer later said, No, it really

00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:50.000
sucks. As a matter of fact, I really would like

00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:53.159
to have that remade. I was on that set, Seltzer

00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:55.820
goes on to say. I'd even taken my kids to Vancouver

00:48:55.820 --> 00:48:59.099
and I saw everything falling apart. When that

00:48:59.099 --> 00:49:01.260
monster showed up and was nothing but some big

00:49:01.260 --> 00:49:04.199
ballet dancer wearing huge shoes and a bear costume,

00:49:04.460 --> 00:49:07.360
I said, that's it to my kids. We're going home.

00:49:07.579 --> 00:49:11.420
That movie does not hold up. So I like that whole

00:49:11.420 --> 00:49:13.780
quote. Obviously, Seltzer is no big fan of this

00:49:13.780 --> 00:49:16.820
movie. And I can't argue with him on that. I

00:49:16.820 --> 00:49:19.599
will say I think this movie in retrospect has

00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:23.389
more love. It definitely has a cult classic following.

00:49:23.489 --> 00:49:25.530
I had heard about this movie. Oh, we didn't talk

00:49:25.530 --> 00:49:27.789
about our personal histories, but I had heard

00:49:27.789 --> 00:49:31.590
about this movie from a friend. It had been recommended.

00:49:32.150 --> 00:49:34.130
So I was excited when you brought it to the podcast

00:49:34.130 --> 00:49:36.530
because I finally had a reason to watch it. So

00:49:36.530 --> 00:49:41.429
I think there's love for this movie out in the

00:49:41.429 --> 00:49:45.070
populace. And then I did watch a clip, an interview

00:49:45.070 --> 00:49:48.650
with Talia Shire for a recent Blu -ray edition.

00:49:50.780 --> 00:49:56.940
And she she defends the movie in terms of its

00:49:56.940 --> 00:49:59.739
themes and its messaging. She's like, look, we

00:49:59.739 --> 00:50:02.800
were trying to make a movie warning, warning

00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:06.699
mankind about the dangers of destroying the earth.

00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:09.119
And like the Earth Mother is going to get you

00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:12.880
in the end if you continue down this path. So

00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:15.380
that was 40 years ago. I think we're still having

00:50:15.380 --> 00:50:19.380
that conversation today. So I think that is still

00:50:19.380 --> 00:50:24.820
worth. Worthy of discussion. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00:50:25.019 --> 00:50:28.460
I think I would agree with Talia Shire on that.

00:50:28.829 --> 00:50:31.050
I also read that Quentin Tarantino kind of likes

00:50:31.050 --> 00:50:33.070
this movie as well, and he said, like, I have

00:50:33.070 --> 00:50:35.849
a soft spot for that stupid movie. And he said,

00:50:35.869 --> 00:50:38.710
Shire's really great. Like, that was one of his

00:50:38.710 --> 00:50:40.230
favorite things about it. And he said that, like,

00:50:40.230 --> 00:50:42.010
the bear costume is totally ridiculous and absurd.

00:50:42.329 --> 00:50:44.389
And those are maybe the two best things about

00:50:44.389 --> 00:50:47.110
it, and the sleeping bag death scene. You're

00:50:47.110 --> 00:50:48.969
right that we didn't talk about our personal

00:50:48.969 --> 00:50:51.230
histories with the movie, and I apologize for

00:50:51.230 --> 00:50:53.469
that. But that's kind of how I learned about

00:50:53.469 --> 00:50:55.570
this movie, just by watching that YouTube clip

00:50:55.570 --> 00:50:58.730
of, well, I don't want to ruin it too much. Just

00:50:58.730 --> 00:51:02.530
search for Prophecy 1979. If you see anything,

00:51:02.630 --> 00:51:05.190
any titles with like sleeping bag death or sleeping

00:51:05.190 --> 00:51:08.989
bag anything, watch that clip because it is strange,

00:51:09.329 --> 00:51:12.070
hilarious. And that's the first thing I saw from

00:51:12.070 --> 00:51:13.630
this movie. So, of course, I was like, oh, we

00:51:13.630 --> 00:51:16.570
have to talk about this on the podcast. My jaw

00:51:16.570 --> 00:51:20.190
dropped. The pizza roll I had in my mouth at

00:51:20.190 --> 00:51:24.150
the time fell out when I watched that scene.

00:51:27.659 --> 00:51:31.099
magical it's really amazing i have no idea if

00:51:31.099 --> 00:51:33.639
it's meant to be funny or not but it is and it's

00:51:33.639 --> 00:51:37.679
also shocking uh what a moment yeah yeah honestly

00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:43.420
it's just it's just uh you know it uh it begs

00:51:43.420 --> 00:51:50.920
so much wonder from oneself yeah right um with

00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:52.820
scenes like that you can't totally hate this

00:51:52.820 --> 00:51:55.679
movie you know all right well it's time for our

00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:58.650
sponsor break Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach

00:51:58.650 --> 00:52:00.670
Linder and the Zach Pack, powered by Coldwell

00:52:00.670 --> 00:52:03.510
Banker Realty. Your source for real estate, home

00:52:03.510 --> 00:52:05.849
rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients,

00:52:06.170 --> 00:52:08.670
and residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach

00:52:08.670 --> 00:52:11.289
Pack today for real estate services, follow the

00:52:11.289 --> 00:52:13.949
Zach Pack on social media, and contact the Zach

00:52:13.949 --> 00:52:16.869
Pack for investment opportunities. Link in the

00:52:16.869 --> 00:52:20.809
show notes. Vincent, do we have anything in Minya's

00:52:20.809 --> 00:52:24.429
mailbox today? We do, and it's from a patron

00:52:24.429 --> 00:52:29.179
of ours. We'll keep it anonymous and I will kind

00:52:29.179 --> 00:52:33.940
of paraphrase some of our our supporters emailed

00:52:33.940 --> 00:52:38.619
to us. But folks listening, join us over on Patreon

00:52:38.619 --> 00:52:41.559
and a perk you get to enjoy is priority comments.

00:52:42.099 --> 00:52:44.980
And I got to tell you, we have a whole our mailbox

00:52:44.980 --> 00:52:48.260
is overstuffed right now with mail. Our Space

00:52:48.260 --> 00:52:51.260
Amoeba episode was very popular. We got a lot

00:52:51.260 --> 00:52:53.619
of love from that. So I'm writing all these down.

00:52:53.699 --> 00:52:56.869
I'm keeping track of them. But we have to honor

00:52:56.869 --> 00:53:00.710
our patrons first and foremost. So let me just

00:53:00.710 --> 00:53:04.190
paraphrase a little bit here. Just listen to

00:53:04.190 --> 00:53:06.610
your Space Amoeba episode. You made a comment

00:53:06.610 --> 00:53:10.010
about the English dub. I hope to clarify. And

00:53:10.010 --> 00:53:13.730
we thank our listeners for helping us because

00:53:13.730 --> 00:53:18.809
sometimes the classic kaiju films, the history,

00:53:18.989 --> 00:53:21.969
especially with the dubs and the different releases,

00:53:22.190 --> 00:53:25.760
international, Japanese, American. It can get

00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:29.579
kind of complicated sometimes. Okay, so he goes

00:53:29.579 --> 00:53:31.780
on to say, I just wanted to point out the difference

00:53:31.780 --> 00:53:34.860
in the dubs. There's a distinct difference between

00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:40.179
calling dubs English and US. Although both are

00:53:40.179 --> 00:53:42.460
English dialogue, the international dubs are

00:53:42.460 --> 00:53:45.360
almost always inferior. Something else to remember

00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:48.260
is that a dub is just another translation. Sometimes

00:53:48.260 --> 00:53:50.820
the dubs are a better translation than some subtitles

00:53:50.820 --> 00:53:54.099
you get, which I think that's an interesting

00:53:54.099 --> 00:53:57.019
point. For instance, the Criterion subtitles

00:53:57.019 --> 00:53:59.619
for many of the Godzilla movies aren't that accurate.

00:54:00.280 --> 00:54:04.519
Criterion prefers brevity over accuracy. So right

00:54:04.519 --> 00:54:06.599
there, I think that that's something I never

00:54:06.599 --> 00:54:10.059
even thought of, but seems to make sense to me.

00:54:10.780 --> 00:54:14.519
Yeah. Okay, goes on a little bit. One last thing

00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:18.019
I'll mention is the titles. My Doctor Who fandom

00:54:18.019 --> 00:54:20.320
kicks in here, so I tend to refer to the actual

00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:22.940
titles to define what I'm talking about. What

00:54:22.940 --> 00:54:25.139
I mean is that Space Amoeba is just the name

00:54:25.139 --> 00:54:27.800
given to the international version by Toho and

00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:30.719
thus only refers to the international version.

00:54:31.219 --> 00:54:34.059
If you're reviewing the Japanese version, well,

00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:37.619
that is only called Gezira Ganymede's Kamibas

00:54:37.619 --> 00:54:42.000
Battle Giant Monsters of the South Seas. And

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:44.480
the U .S. version is Yogg Monster from Space.

00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:48.420
So our listener says, to me, that's how I refer

00:54:48.420 --> 00:54:50.780
to these Toho movies when it comes to talking

00:54:50.780 --> 00:54:55.760
about the films. He does go on to say or admit

00:54:55.760 --> 00:54:58.599
that no one thinks about all this quite as much

00:54:58.599 --> 00:55:04.699
as he does. But I love thinking about this stuff

00:55:04.699 --> 00:55:09.280
all the same. So thank you, listener, dear patron.

00:55:10.380 --> 00:55:15.059
We really value that kind of insight. Absolutely.

00:55:15.179 --> 00:55:16.940
That's yeah, a lot of good points. Very fascinating

00:55:16.940 --> 00:55:20.289
stuff there. And yeah, it's true. Like we. You

00:55:20.289 --> 00:55:22.329
know, I'll speak for myself, Vincent, but I try

00:55:22.329 --> 00:55:24.710
to do research and try to like track down different

00:55:24.710 --> 00:55:27.409
like versions of the movie and figure out all

00:55:27.409 --> 00:55:30.230
that all that backstory. But I admit it can be

00:55:30.230 --> 00:55:32.570
tough and we might be pressed for time sometimes.

00:55:32.730 --> 00:55:35.630
So we always love getting corrections and information

00:55:35.630 --> 00:55:37.730
like that. So thank you. Thank you for that.

00:55:38.150 --> 00:55:41.409
Yeah, because it's to me, it's it's just like

00:55:41.409 --> 00:55:44.329
getting an email like that. It adds to our conversation.

00:55:44.650 --> 00:55:47.030
Yeah. You know, because you and I admit we don't.

00:55:47.210 --> 00:55:50.349
We don't know every in and out of these movies.

00:55:50.849 --> 00:55:54.230
So we welcome the listener feedback to add to

00:55:54.230 --> 00:55:59.309
the conversation. Absolutely. Yeah. And just

00:55:59.309 --> 00:56:01.730
one more thing about the title. Space Amoeba

00:56:01.730 --> 00:56:03.489
is one of my favorite movie titles of all time.

00:56:03.650 --> 00:56:07.269
So I definitely appreciate the accuracy. I might

00:56:07.269 --> 00:56:09.710
continue. And this is on me. I'll probably just

00:56:09.710 --> 00:56:11.550
call it Space Amoeba just because I love that

00:56:11.550 --> 00:56:13.929
title so much. Well, I think that's the default.

00:56:14.190 --> 00:56:20.380
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. but that's great stuff um yeah

00:56:20.380 --> 00:56:22.840
thanks to thanks to that patron for sending those

00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:29.420
comments absolutely and peter laurie uh matt

00:56:29.420 --> 00:56:34.460
did you even notice he moved out you know it's

00:56:34.460 --> 00:56:37.239
been so quiet and peaceful here that explains

00:56:37.239 --> 00:56:41.699
it that must be why yeah well now well now i

00:56:41.699 --> 00:56:45.449
can't sleep at night because i got I got some

00:56:45.449 --> 00:56:49.690
hoodlum moving in to my basement down here. It's

00:56:49.690 --> 00:56:53.150
Peter Lorre. Oh, man. There must be a high -pitched

00:56:53.150 --> 00:56:55.110
German muttering down there all the time now.

00:56:55.789 --> 00:56:58.650
Ada's asking me what is going on. You know, I

00:56:58.650 --> 00:57:02.730
can only keep Lorre from her for so long. That's

00:57:02.730 --> 00:57:07.250
terrifying. You gave them my address. I did no

00:57:07.250 --> 00:57:09.070
such thing. I might have given them a general

00:57:09.070 --> 00:57:13.369
direction, but, you know. Some landmarks, possibly.

00:57:15.440 --> 00:57:17.679
I didn't think he was even going to survive all

00:57:17.679 --> 00:57:21.539
the way over there. Well, he did. And now I have

00:57:21.539 --> 00:57:25.300
to find accommodations for someone else in my

00:57:25.300 --> 00:57:29.760
house. Thank you. Oh, I'm sorry about that. I'll

00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:31.820
offer you some tips to like make it a little

00:57:31.820 --> 00:57:34.440
bit easier. Maybe I'll give him like a parting

00:57:34.440 --> 00:57:37.659
gift, you know, since he's not in my place anymore.

00:57:37.780 --> 00:57:41.000
But yeah, good luck. That's all I can say. I

00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:44.000
brought this on myself, but we'll see. We'll

00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:46.739
make it work. We'll make it work. All right.

00:57:46.760 --> 00:57:52.119
He's going to talk to us about a 1944 movie called

00:57:52.119 --> 00:58:09.329
The Monster Maker. Oh, that's a good title. to

00:58:09.329 --> 00:58:13.110
the Poverty Row Studios on the other side of

00:58:13.110 --> 00:58:16.170
Hollywood where the stars were dimmer and the

00:58:16.170 --> 00:58:19.530
red carpets dripped with blood. Together we will

00:58:19.530 --> 00:58:22.550
watch the best of the worst. Movies known for

00:58:22.550 --> 00:58:26.269
their limited budgets, outlandish concepts, and

00:58:26.269 --> 00:58:29.670
questionable performances, but with enough haunted

00:58:29.670 --> 00:58:33.449
houses, zombies, ape men, and devil bats to keep

00:58:33.449 --> 00:58:37.849
you up at night. This is the Poverty Row Picture

00:58:37.849 --> 00:58:41.760
Show. And I dare you to sleep through these nightmares.

00:58:47.500 --> 00:58:51.400
Greetings, ghouls and gals. And happy October.

00:58:51.860 --> 00:58:55.920
It is the gravest season of all. And thanks to

00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:59.980
Bela Lugosi for covering me last week. That man

00:58:59.980 --> 00:59:03.980
can really vamp on the mic. But now I return

00:59:03.980 --> 00:59:07.780
to continue the Poverty Row Picture Show. Coming

00:59:07.780 --> 00:59:10.699
to you now. From all new digs. That's right.

00:59:10.820 --> 00:59:14.960
I have left the unfriendly confines of Matthew's

00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:19.619
dirty, rotten, stinking, lousy, two -bit, flea

00:59:19.619 --> 00:59:23.820
-infested excuse for a home. And now I find myself

00:59:23.820 --> 00:59:28.519
in the basement dwellings of Vincent's own abode.

00:59:29.239 --> 00:59:35.840
Hmm. What do we have here? Yes, this is good.

00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:40.050
A full liquor cabinet. And a color television

00:59:40.050 --> 00:59:43.809
set. Well, I am sure that Vincent will not mind

00:59:43.809 --> 00:59:47.449
if I make myself comfy. We haven't exactly established

00:59:47.449 --> 00:59:51.110
the house rules, but... But... Ah, what the heck.

00:59:51.650 --> 00:59:55.289
Now, what movie are we reviewing tonight? Ah,

00:59:55.329 --> 01:00:00.610
yes. 1944's The Monster Maker. This devilish

01:00:00.610 --> 01:00:04.670
B -movie concerns a mad scientist played by J.

01:00:04.769 --> 01:00:08.579
Carol Nash. who injects his would -be adversaries

01:00:08.579 --> 01:00:12.780
with the serum of acromagaly. This is the disease

01:00:12.780 --> 01:00:16.559
of the Elephant Man, Rondo Hanton, and that scientist

01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:20.739
from Universal's Tarantula. In reality, it is

01:00:20.739 --> 01:00:23.420
a rare disorder that causes the enlargement of

01:00:23.420 --> 01:00:27.199
the face, arms, and legs. Certainly no laughing

01:00:27.199 --> 01:00:30.260
matter, and its use as a monstrous plot point

01:00:30.260 --> 01:00:34.030
in this film and others is morally dubious. even

01:00:34.030 --> 01:00:37.610
for the films of the poverty row. However, how

01:00:37.610 --> 01:00:41.010
does the monster maker stack up against others

01:00:41.010 --> 01:00:45.750
of its ilk? Well, J. Carol Nash brings a certain

01:00:45.750 --> 01:00:49.210
Oscar -panted resume to the film, but he can

01:00:49.210 --> 01:00:52.650
only do so much as the one -note doctor. Then,

01:00:52.750 --> 01:00:55.170
would you believe there's even a killer gorilla

01:00:55.170 --> 01:00:58.809
in this one? Yes, I did not see that one coming

01:00:58.809 --> 01:01:01.900
either. What do you know, the big ape? It's more

01:01:01.900 --> 01:01:05.780
of a curious cameo than even a subplot. The whole

01:01:05.780 --> 01:01:09.539
film is meandering, confusing, and paced so slowly

01:01:09.539 --> 01:01:13.559
you may find yourself checking the time. Well,

01:01:13.599 --> 01:01:16.340
that's it for now. And I thank you for listening

01:01:16.340 --> 01:01:18.980
and for all the support. I think next time we

01:01:18.980 --> 01:01:21.980
will discuss my fellow horror actor, that man

01:01:21.980 --> 01:01:25.360
with the acromegaly, Rondo Hatton, in a little

01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:30.320
film called The Brute Man. Yes, well... Necromagily

01:01:30.320 --> 01:01:33.639
does factor again as a sinister storyline, but

01:01:33.639 --> 01:01:36.559
does the Brute Man out -disfigure the Monster

01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:40.900
Maker? Stay tuned to find out, and raise a glass

01:01:40.900 --> 01:01:45.059
until then, to this autumnal season of Monsters

01:01:45.059 --> 01:02:03.519
and Mad Men! How do you do? My name is Alfred

01:02:03.519 --> 01:02:06.280
Hitchcock and I would like to tell you about

01:02:06.280 --> 01:02:09.980
my forthcoming lecture. It is about the birds

01:02:09.980 --> 01:02:13.659
and their age -long relationship with man. It

01:02:13.659 --> 01:02:16.320
will be seen in theatres like this across the

01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:19.739
country. In my lecture, I hope to make you all

01:02:19.739 --> 01:02:23.500
aware of our good friends, the birds. Theirs

01:02:23.500 --> 01:02:26.440
is a noble history and through it all, man has

01:02:26.440 --> 01:02:30.500
played a conspicuous part. This cave drawing

01:02:30.500 --> 01:02:33.659
is one of man's earliest sketches of his feathered

01:02:33.659 --> 01:02:38.260
friend. One can see at once the loving care with

01:02:38.260 --> 01:02:42.880
which the artist depicted his subject. The story

01:02:42.880 --> 01:02:45.960
of man and his friends, the birds, is filled

01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:49.400
with many fine examples of ways in which these

01:02:49.400 --> 01:02:51.820
noble creatures have added to the beauty of the

01:02:51.820 --> 01:02:55.000
world. Back to Prophecy by John Frankenheimer.

01:02:55.099 --> 01:02:57.699
We've already talked about a number of the themes

01:02:57.699 --> 01:03:00.670
in this movie. Eco horror probably being the

01:03:00.670 --> 01:03:03.550
number one theme in the film. Anything else you

01:03:03.550 --> 01:03:06.510
want to add about that theme in the movie? Yeah.

01:03:06.590 --> 01:03:09.489
So we mentioned like the concept of the earth

01:03:09.489 --> 01:03:12.750
mother, but also that people, this is a belief.

01:03:12.929 --> 01:03:15.010
This is a rat. I mean, at the time I think it

01:03:15.010 --> 01:03:19.989
was radical for the Western mindset to, to think

01:03:19.989 --> 01:03:25.429
of human beings and nature as one in the same.

01:03:26.329 --> 01:03:33.369
And. I have been exposed in my time to Native

01:03:33.369 --> 01:03:37.489
American speakers and readings that that is a

01:03:37.489 --> 01:03:41.969
very indigenous concept that humans are not separate

01:03:41.969 --> 01:03:45.670
from the earth, that we all are part and parcel.

01:03:45.889 --> 01:03:50.829
So I think prophecy admirably brings those themes

01:03:50.829 --> 01:03:55.119
to the surface. And I appreciated that. Yeah,

01:03:55.159 --> 01:03:57.460
absolutely. There's a really good dialogue scene

01:03:57.460 --> 01:04:02.179
between Dr. Verne, Bob Verne, and John Hawks,

01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:04.539
the Native American activist character played

01:04:04.539 --> 01:04:08.260
by Armand Asante, where Bob Verne basically says,

01:04:08.360 --> 01:04:10.139
listen, I'm just here to check the environment.

01:04:10.420 --> 01:04:13.460
I'm just looking for chemicals and toxins. And

01:04:13.460 --> 01:04:16.139
Hawks kind of interrupts him and he's like, what

01:04:16.139 --> 01:04:18.239
do you mean by the environment? We are part of

01:04:18.239 --> 01:04:20.219
the environment. You can't talk about the environment

01:04:20.219 --> 01:04:23.380
without talking about us. And that's a good point.

01:04:24.440 --> 01:04:26.760
I thought that scene was pretty believable. Not

01:04:26.760 --> 01:04:29.480
even, you know, won't talk about the acting or

01:04:29.480 --> 01:04:31.699
like the casting, I should say, in this particular

01:04:31.699 --> 01:04:35.019
moment. But the dialogue is really trying to

01:04:35.019 --> 01:04:37.739
get at a deeper theme than I expected in that

01:04:37.739 --> 01:04:41.659
moment. Yeah, it was a good biting response by

01:04:41.659 --> 01:04:45.699
the character John Hawks. That was good. Yeah.

01:04:46.199 --> 01:04:50.300
Right off the bat, I mean, the depiction of class

01:04:50.300 --> 01:04:54.190
and the class struggle in this movie. Dr. Verne,

01:04:54.289 --> 01:04:59.550
he's treating tenement dwellers in a poor neighborhood

01:04:59.550 --> 01:05:02.590
in New York City. And he's treating a baby who's

01:05:02.590 --> 01:05:06.570
been bitten by rats. And it's just heartbreaking.

01:05:06.650 --> 01:05:10.449
And it's a real baby actor. And it's just a really

01:05:10.449 --> 01:05:15.670
powerful scene of the depiction of not just poverty,

01:05:15.750 --> 01:05:20.570
but the neglect of the masses by a system that

01:05:20.570 --> 01:05:24.079
truly doesn't care about them. And if it weren't

01:05:24.079 --> 01:05:27.599
for Bob Verne, like what would happen? Like,

01:05:27.699 --> 01:05:32.820
and so, so it also highlights the people who

01:05:32.820 --> 01:05:35.039
do social work, the people who are public health

01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:39.019
servants who are willing to go into, who are

01:05:39.019 --> 01:05:41.960
willing to do really hard work that most people

01:05:41.960 --> 01:05:44.400
don't or aren't willing to do, or don't even

01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:46.420
think about it. And it's not malicious. They

01:05:46.420 --> 01:05:50.159
just, I mean, if you don't live in it and you're

01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:53.610
not exposed to it and you live you know, maybe

01:05:53.610 --> 01:05:56.949
a more comfortable life. We're all guilty of

01:05:56.949 --> 01:05:58.969
it. I know there are people starving right now

01:05:58.969 --> 01:06:00.730
on the streets of Minneapolis. What am I doing

01:06:00.730 --> 01:06:05.110
about it? Nothing. But Bob does in this movie,

01:06:05.190 --> 01:06:08.590
like he's going into these places. So like it's

01:06:08.590 --> 01:06:10.329
the first scene of the movie and it, it starts

01:06:10.329 --> 01:06:12.630
off very, it kicks this movie off into a very

01:06:12.630 --> 01:06:16.670
high gear for me. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Agree

01:06:16.670 --> 01:06:19.130
with all that. I have two, two responses or two

01:06:19.130 --> 01:06:21.789
thoughts about that. The first of which, the

01:06:21.789 --> 01:06:24.809
scene set in that, it's referred to in the movie

01:06:24.809 --> 01:06:26.710
as a ghetto, like the New York ghetto, basically.

01:06:27.010 --> 01:06:30.489
And I appreciate the message of that scene. And

01:06:30.489 --> 01:06:34.510
I think it's pretty poorly done. The street in

01:06:34.510 --> 01:06:36.769
front of the building where he treats the baby

01:06:36.769 --> 01:06:39.989
and talks to the baby's mother. There are bombed

01:06:39.989 --> 01:06:42.750
out cars. There's stuff on fire. Every single

01:06:42.750 --> 01:06:45.349
person on the sidewalk is giving them dirty,

01:06:45.449 --> 01:06:48.230
threatening looks. And it's like... I feel like

01:06:48.230 --> 01:06:50.530
you can tell this movie was directed by somebody

01:06:50.530 --> 01:06:53.650
who is not of this community. I feel like it's

01:06:53.650 --> 01:06:57.530
trying to provide shorthand as quickly as possible

01:06:57.530 --> 01:07:01.030
for a crime -ridden, impoverished sort of city

01:07:01.030 --> 01:07:05.000
slum. The theme is interesting, and I do think

01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:07.159
the message is well -intentioned, but it's one

01:07:07.159 --> 01:07:08.900
of many things in this movie that I just think

01:07:08.900 --> 01:07:11.900
is poorly executed, even if, like, the idea behind

01:07:11.900 --> 01:07:14.400
it has potential, you know? And I think there's

01:07:14.400 --> 01:07:16.719
a lot to blame for that. I think it's Frankenheimer.

01:07:16.800 --> 01:07:19.300
I think it's the set design. I think it's even

01:07:19.300 --> 01:07:22.039
just, like, the editing, because, like... You

01:07:22.039 --> 01:07:25.519
know, we we see these two white men because Bob

01:07:25.519 --> 01:07:27.980
Verne is joined by another man who works for

01:07:27.980 --> 01:07:30.480
the EPA, I think. And like they're just, you

01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:32.400
know, it's the two of them talking, surrounded

01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:35.340
by all this like crime and like graffiti and

01:07:35.340 --> 01:07:38.059
all this stuff. So it's an interesting moment.

01:07:38.119 --> 01:07:40.420
And it kind of did also rub me the wrong way

01:07:40.420 --> 01:07:42.539
a little bit at the same time, you know? No,

01:07:42.679 --> 01:07:46.239
I I'm going to I'm going to lend credence to

01:07:46.239 --> 01:07:50.300
a critique you could read into this film. That

01:07:50.300 --> 01:07:54.420
it's. you know, a white savior narrative. I don't

01:07:54.420 --> 01:07:57.659
think that should take away from the, the well

01:07:57.659 --> 01:08:01.460
-meaning good work that that's, you know, public

01:08:01.460 --> 01:08:04.099
health officials do that social workers do, even

01:08:04.099 --> 01:08:06.960
if they're, you know, white people, but in this

01:08:06.960 --> 01:08:10.099
movie, especially with the dynamics between the

01:08:10.099 --> 01:08:13.699
native communities and, you know, and, and in

01:08:13.699 --> 01:08:16.479
this one city scene, you know, everyone's of

01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:18.840
color, everyone's like shooting up. It's just,

01:08:18.899 --> 01:08:22.899
yeah, it's. It's not it's not a scene painted

01:08:22.899 --> 01:08:26.340
by, like you said, someone who might know that

01:08:26.340 --> 01:08:30.340
kind of community more genuinely. Yeah. So I

01:08:30.340 --> 01:08:33.760
think you I think you could lay that critique

01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:36.899
on the film, even if it's not necessarily all

01:08:36.899 --> 01:08:40.140
there for me. But I could see it totally. And

01:08:40.140 --> 01:08:43.149
I'm you know, I. Yeah, I agree with what you're

01:08:43.149 --> 01:08:44.550
saying. I just don't like the way it's presented

01:08:44.550 --> 01:08:46.210
in the movie, you know, but like that doesn't

01:08:46.210 --> 01:08:48.289
like totally diminish the theme or anything.

01:08:48.390 --> 01:08:49.909
It's still there in the movie. So I appreciate

01:08:49.909 --> 01:08:53.750
that about it. Yeah. Yeah. But Prophecy is a

01:08:53.750 --> 01:08:56.850
it's it's it's a movie like that, though. It's

01:08:56.850 --> 01:08:59.909
and it made me think about Orca as well. Do you

01:08:59.909 --> 01:09:01.630
remember there was a native community in that

01:09:01.630 --> 01:09:05.350
movie, too? Yeah. Portrayed by native actors,

01:09:05.630 --> 01:09:08.170
I believe, for the most part, at least the main

01:09:08.170 --> 01:09:12.800
one. But prophecy like Orca still traffics in

01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:17.319
that mysticism around natives. Yeah. Like, oh,

01:09:17.359 --> 01:09:21.159
this bear, it's the embodiment of Katahdin, their

01:09:21.159 --> 01:09:26.720
forest god. And it's still, yeah, that's problematic.

01:09:27.260 --> 01:09:34.380
Right. There's still a veneer of racial caricature

01:09:34.380 --> 01:09:37.970
with this film. Absolutely. Yeah. I also read

01:09:37.970 --> 01:09:40.310
that Katahdin does not exist. It was made up

01:09:40.310 --> 01:09:42.970
for the movie and is actually named after a mountain

01:09:42.970 --> 01:09:45.170
that's in Maine. I think it's in Maine. Maybe

01:09:45.170 --> 01:09:47.250
it's in British Columbia, actually. But yeah,

01:09:47.350 --> 01:09:49.789
it doesn't exist. So that that part of it. And,

01:09:49.869 --> 01:09:52.510
you know, I mean, like artists have creative

01:09:52.510 --> 01:09:54.710
license to a certain extent. But that kind of

01:09:54.710 --> 01:09:56.069
thing is like, oh, you're kind of just making

01:09:56.069 --> 01:09:59.510
this up as you go along, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

01:10:00.609 --> 01:10:02.949
But and, you know, again, like maybe a product

01:10:02.949 --> 01:10:05.579
of its time and place. I think like. you know,

01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:08.840
filmmakers like Frankenheimer maybe weren't thinking

01:10:08.840 --> 01:10:11.359
as much about these things as they probably should

01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:14.500
have, you know? And then at the same time, that's

01:10:14.500 --> 01:10:17.079
why this whole conversation we're having is,

01:10:17.159 --> 01:10:20.619
I appreciate this conversation because there,

01:10:20.779 --> 01:10:25.039
to me, it's not so black and white. Because in

01:10:25.039 --> 01:10:27.659
the 70s, you also had the American Indian movement.

01:10:28.260 --> 01:10:31.479
So Native rights were a topic of discussion.

01:10:31.680 --> 01:10:35.600
They were on the front. or the headlines. Yeah.

01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:39.380
So prophecy and Orca, and I'm sure there are

01:10:39.380 --> 01:10:42.159
countless others are also reflecting the times

01:10:42.159 --> 01:10:44.779
in which they're made in a positive way. Yeah.

01:10:45.020 --> 01:10:48.720
So, yeah, you just kind of take it for everything.

01:10:49.899 --> 01:10:52.659
Absolutely. The good and the bad and the ugly

01:10:52.659 --> 01:10:55.220
and the campy. Yeah. It's all there for sure.

01:10:55.380 --> 01:11:01.220
Yeah. Fascinating ways. Oh man. You said another

01:11:01.220 --> 01:11:03.319
thing, too, though, that I picked up on and I

01:11:03.319 --> 01:11:04.960
thought was one of the more interesting themes

01:11:04.960 --> 01:11:07.680
in the movie, which is like, you know, Dr. Verne

01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:10.960
does want to do good in the world. He wants to

01:11:10.960 --> 01:11:13.800
play a positive role. He's idealistic. You know,

01:11:13.859 --> 01:11:16.000
he's not a cynic. And then like we on the other

01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:17.960
hand, we get like the director of the lumber

01:11:17.960 --> 01:11:20.859
mill, who at least initially seems to be cynical

01:11:20.859 --> 01:11:22.880
and in it for the money and power hungry and

01:11:22.880 --> 01:11:25.100
all that stuff. But then there's kind of like

01:11:25.100 --> 01:11:28.949
a character dynamic where. You know, he learns

01:11:28.949 --> 01:11:31.489
like the negative effects of like his company

01:11:31.489 --> 01:11:33.489
and like he himself, like what he's done to this

01:11:33.489 --> 01:11:35.930
community and like it's animals and it's people

01:11:35.930 --> 01:11:39.449
and the environment itself. And like he kind

01:11:39.449 --> 01:11:41.289
of has a change of heart. And I think he shifts

01:11:41.289 --> 01:11:44.489
a little bit from cynicism to idealism. And that,

01:11:44.609 --> 01:11:46.489
I think, is a relevant theme to all of us right

01:11:46.489 --> 01:11:49.010
now. And there's like, you know, just so much

01:11:49.010 --> 01:11:51.979
right now that seems kind of. tense and difficult

01:11:51.979 --> 01:11:54.539
in the world. It's like, ah, I want to, and you

01:11:54.539 --> 01:11:56.220
said this too before Vincent, it's like, I want

01:11:56.220 --> 01:11:57.460
to make a difference, but what do I actually

01:11:57.460 --> 01:12:00.460
do? You know? And that's like a sub theme or

01:12:00.460 --> 01:12:03.640
like, yeah, not a subplot, but like a sub theme

01:12:03.640 --> 01:12:06.960
in the movie that I think is, is, is always relevant.

01:12:07.020 --> 01:12:10.079
And like the, the, the critic, the critic who

01:12:10.079 --> 01:12:11.880
said in their negative review that this is like

01:12:11.880 --> 01:12:14.819
course and liberal guilt or whatever. I don't

01:12:14.819 --> 01:12:16.439
know. It sounds kind of mean to me because that

01:12:16.439 --> 01:12:18.079
just seems like a different way of saying this

01:12:18.079 --> 01:12:21.600
movie is. trying to ask, like, how do you make

01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:23.720
a difference in a world that seems like full

01:12:23.720 --> 01:12:26.859
of problems, basically, you know? And that, you

01:12:26.859 --> 01:12:30.619
know, like, for how silly this movie is, it does

01:12:30.619 --> 01:12:32.439
get to some of those questions, which I was surprised

01:12:32.439 --> 01:12:36.439
by. Yeah, there's this scene in the nighttime

01:12:36.439 --> 01:12:39.779
bear attack. Everyone's hunkered down in the

01:12:39.779 --> 01:12:43.760
tunnel. And John Hawks and the leader of the,

01:12:43.920 --> 01:12:46.920
or the boss of the paper mill, like, they share

01:12:46.920 --> 01:12:50.600
a look. It's a nonverbal, but it's full of understanding.

01:12:51.020 --> 01:12:53.739
And that's when they had like the, like you said,

01:12:53.819 --> 01:12:55.460
that white character has that change of heart.

01:12:56.479 --> 01:12:59.640
Yeah. So, you know, we're talking about deep

01:12:59.640 --> 01:13:02.140
themes of the prophecy, but that bear is a metaphor

01:13:02.140 --> 01:13:06.079
for everything, all the problems, all the struggles.

01:13:07.220 --> 01:13:10.600
And, you know, we got to come together. Yeah,

01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:15.149
really. I mean, wish these monsters. Right. It's

01:13:15.149 --> 01:13:17.689
yeah, like it sounds like kind of hyperbolic

01:13:17.689 --> 01:13:19.329
to say that, but it's true that the movie is

01:13:19.329 --> 01:13:22.329
at least trying to wrap all that up in this movie,

01:13:22.409 --> 01:13:25.229
you know, wrap it up in a sleeping bag and then

01:13:25.229 --> 01:13:27.770
whip it with its tail into a tree. That's what

01:13:27.770 --> 01:13:30.189
it's trying to do. That's bad metaphor. Sorry.

01:13:30.270 --> 01:13:34.409
Into an explosion of feathers. Yeah, exactly.

01:13:35.539 --> 01:13:37.479
Oh, that also reminds me, I'm sorry, I don't

01:13:37.479 --> 01:13:40.000
want to dwell too much on just this one theme,

01:13:40.100 --> 01:13:41.399
because there's more to the movie. But like,

01:13:41.520 --> 01:13:44.659
I read that the novelization of the film, which

01:13:44.659 --> 01:13:46.760
was also by David Seltzer, who wrote the screenplay.

01:13:47.119 --> 01:13:48.779
So he wrote the screenplay, and then he wrote

01:13:48.779 --> 01:13:50.739
the novel to go along with the film to like make

01:13:50.739 --> 01:13:52.939
some extra money. But the ending of the book

01:13:52.939 --> 01:13:55.720
is even more bleak than the ending of the film,

01:13:55.760 --> 01:13:58.010
which actually isn't all that bleak. The end

01:13:58.010 --> 01:14:00.170
of the book ends with, like, the Supreme Court

01:14:00.170 --> 01:14:02.529
ruling against the Native American tribe that

01:14:02.529 --> 01:14:05.229
lives in this area and ruling with the Lumber

01:14:05.229 --> 01:14:08.529
Corporation, which, you know, is a powerful...

01:14:08.529 --> 01:14:10.170
I haven't read the book, I should admit that,

01:14:10.250 --> 01:14:14.029
but, like, it just sounds like a powerfully pessimistic

01:14:14.029 --> 01:14:16.829
and maybe more realistic way to look at the outcome

01:14:16.829 --> 01:14:19.590
of the story. Yeah, I have thoughts about the

01:14:19.590 --> 01:14:22.149
ending of the movie. I'll get to with my bad

01:14:22.149 --> 01:14:24.569
category, actually, but, you know, we'll get

01:14:24.569 --> 01:14:26.930
there. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. That's

01:14:26.930 --> 01:14:29.829
interesting. Yeah, I thought so too. All right,

01:14:29.869 --> 01:14:31.989
what other themes do we have in this movie? We've

01:14:31.989 --> 01:14:34.369
talked about prejudice against the Native American

01:14:34.369 --> 01:14:36.829
communities. And like you said, Vincent, you

01:14:36.829 --> 01:14:39.710
know, it's eco -friendly themes. It's themes

01:14:39.710 --> 01:14:42.010
about preservation. And it's themes about Native

01:14:42.010 --> 01:14:45.550
American communities are, there are lots of parallels

01:14:45.550 --> 01:14:47.949
between them, lots of overlaps. Is there anything

01:14:47.949 --> 01:14:50.569
else we want to say about its themes of, you

01:14:50.569 --> 01:14:53.149
know, co -opting Native American land and oppressing

01:14:53.149 --> 01:14:56.720
those communities? I mean, always. But I think,

01:14:56.800 --> 01:15:00.399
well, yeah, I'll say one more example of how

01:15:00.399 --> 01:15:03.239
I feel like prophecy is just such a snapshot

01:15:03.239 --> 01:15:07.619
of 70s politics. You know, abortion is talked

01:15:07.619 --> 01:15:10.859
about rather candidly in this film. And I just

01:15:10.859 --> 01:15:14.159
think that that is, I think that word and that

01:15:14.159 --> 01:15:17.819
topic is so controversial these days. And I'm

01:15:17.819 --> 01:15:19.760
not saying it wasn't then because I wasn't alive

01:15:19.760 --> 01:15:23.699
then. I don't know. But a mainstream movie. science

01:15:23.699 --> 01:15:26.560
fiction movie is just dropping that into conversation

01:15:26.560 --> 01:15:29.939
like Talia Shire the first time you meet her

01:15:29.939 --> 01:15:32.039
she's talking to her friend about whether or

01:15:32.039 --> 01:15:34.359
not she wants to keep the baby and I found it

01:15:34.359 --> 01:15:37.359
interesting maybe a subversion of what I would

01:15:37.359 --> 01:15:42.260
expect she the woman is is hoping to keep the

01:15:42.260 --> 01:15:45.920
pregnancy and it's the husband who would be in

01:15:45.920 --> 01:15:51.060
favor of the abortion I just in the at least

01:15:51.060 --> 01:15:53.340
the stories I consume Those roles are usually

01:15:53.340 --> 01:15:56.920
flipped. Right. Yeah, and that I think kind of

01:15:56.920 --> 01:15:59.140
goes back to the theme of like idealism versus

01:15:59.140 --> 01:16:01.060
cynicism a little bit because even though Dr.

01:16:01.279 --> 01:16:03.140
Verne, sorry, the male character Bob Verne is

01:16:03.140 --> 01:16:05.920
like, you know, idealistic in some ways because

01:16:05.920 --> 01:16:08.520
he's trying to help. the community, the, you

01:16:08.520 --> 01:16:10.119
know, primarily black community at the beginning

01:16:10.119 --> 01:16:12.260
of the film, he doesn't really want to bring

01:16:12.260 --> 01:16:13.939
new life into the world because he thinks that

01:16:13.939 --> 01:16:16.319
there are so many problems that are unfixable

01:16:16.319 --> 01:16:18.619
and like the future is going to be even darker

01:16:18.619 --> 01:16:21.260
and more difficult to deal with. And that's why

01:16:21.260 --> 01:16:23.680
he doesn't want to have a child. Like that's

01:16:23.680 --> 01:16:26.140
an interesting dynamic, you know? And I find,

01:16:26.159 --> 01:16:28.760
I found that extremely relatable just personally,

01:16:28.939 --> 01:16:32.100
you know, Ellen and I had conversations like

01:16:32.100 --> 01:16:35.409
that before we decided to start a family. And

01:16:35.409 --> 01:16:37.890
I think a lot of people out there, whether you

01:16:37.890 --> 01:16:41.109
have children or not, think about it in those

01:16:41.109 --> 01:16:45.090
terms. Like, do I want to add more, another human

01:16:45.090 --> 01:16:51.750
to this, this God forsaken world? You know, and

01:16:51.750 --> 01:16:53.770
I'm not blaming anybody. I'm not judging anybody.

01:16:53.970 --> 01:16:56.310
And it's, it's a deeply personal conversation

01:16:56.310 --> 01:16:59.609
to have that, but this movie touches on it. And

01:16:59.609 --> 01:17:05.250
I, I found that effective. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

01:17:05.390 --> 01:17:07.550
And maybe kind of gets to some larger themes

01:17:07.550 --> 01:17:09.630
about gender dynamics too, not to give the movie

01:17:09.630 --> 01:17:12.210
too much credit, but like, you know, I mean,

01:17:12.210 --> 01:17:14.329
Bob Verne doesn't really listen to his wife all

01:17:14.329 --> 01:17:16.529
that much. She numerous times tries to bring

01:17:16.529 --> 01:17:18.270
up the subject of conversation and he just kind

01:17:18.270 --> 01:17:20.590
of ignores her and like tries to make out with

01:17:20.590 --> 01:17:22.609
her in one scene. And, you know, there's one

01:17:22.609 --> 01:17:25.289
moment too, where he like, he's fishing and he

01:17:25.289 --> 01:17:27.850
catches a fish and that's arguably what like,

01:17:27.989 --> 01:17:31.659
you know. what's the word, impacts Talia Shire's

01:17:31.659 --> 01:17:33.439
baby in the movie is eating that tainted fish

01:17:33.439 --> 01:17:36.020
or whatever. But anyway, what I'm getting at

01:17:36.020 --> 01:17:38.039
is there's a line of dialogue where he's like,

01:17:38.159 --> 01:17:40.779
oh no, actually Talia Shire says that. She's

01:17:40.779 --> 01:17:42.640
like, you fish and I'll make the food or I'll

01:17:42.640 --> 01:17:44.479
eat the food or something like that. And I was

01:17:44.479 --> 01:17:46.159
like, oh, that's kind of a throwaway line. It's

01:17:46.159 --> 01:17:48.920
kind of about, it says a lot about their power

01:17:48.920 --> 01:17:51.460
dynamics and their views on gender and their

01:17:51.460 --> 01:17:53.659
marriage, you know? I mean, if you really want

01:17:53.659 --> 01:17:57.800
to go into it, she's like this top flight or

01:17:57.800 --> 01:18:01.239
top tier. cellist in an orchestra in new york

01:18:01.239 --> 01:18:03.939
which you know okay okay she's an independent

01:18:03.939 --> 01:18:06.659
woman she has this amazing career as an artist

01:18:06.659 --> 01:18:10.920
but she follows him to his work and then she

01:18:10.920 --> 01:18:13.800
just like we never see her play the cello again

01:18:13.800 --> 01:18:16.880
man there's like one scene but but her whole

01:18:16.880 --> 01:18:19.140
character that's set up in the beginning of this

01:18:19.140 --> 01:18:23.159
movie completely fades away and that's like a

01:18:23.159 --> 01:18:26.939
function of the script and just like how seltzer

01:18:27.500 --> 01:18:31.119
Wants to flesh out his characters, but it's,

01:18:31.119 --> 01:18:34.180
I think it's a, again, I think it's a lost. I

01:18:34.180 --> 01:18:37.420
think it's a missed opportunity to not give her

01:18:37.420 --> 01:18:41.079
more agency in this movie. Cause I think, I think

01:18:41.079 --> 01:18:44.000
by the time they get to the woods, she, she is

01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:48.699
more or less justifiably concerned about one

01:18:48.699 --> 01:18:51.479
thing only. Am I going to give birth to a monster?

01:18:52.359 --> 01:18:56.220
yeah does she do anything more than just kind

01:18:56.220 --> 01:19:01.060
of cry about that not really and you know maybe

01:19:01.060 --> 01:19:03.180
maybe you could have played around with some

01:19:03.180 --> 01:19:06.239
some deeper more dynamic characterization there

01:19:06.239 --> 01:19:10.140
yeah i agree with that for sure yeah i do think

01:19:10.140 --> 01:19:12.159
she plays the role very well i think she's like

01:19:12.159 --> 01:19:14.460
pretty powerful in this movie and like the scenes

01:19:14.460 --> 01:19:18.840
where she's cradling one of the cubs And seemingly

01:19:18.840 --> 01:19:22.439
horrified and also like very compassionate towards

01:19:22.439 --> 01:19:25.119
it in a motherly way. Those are pretty devastating

01:19:25.119 --> 01:19:27.239
moments in this movie. And I was not expecting

01:19:27.239 --> 01:19:31.180
that also. I completely agree. And then I what

01:19:31.180 --> 01:19:33.819
how did you feel about this moment? The bear

01:19:33.819 --> 01:19:37.000
cub like rips into her neck. It turns. Yeah.

01:19:37.860 --> 01:19:40.659
And that's a strange moment. And also, I think

01:19:40.659 --> 01:19:42.399
that's another moment that's poorly executed

01:19:42.399 --> 01:19:44.119
because you can't even really tell what's going

01:19:44.119 --> 01:19:46.720
on. There are some like close shots that are

01:19:46.720 --> 01:19:49.319
just like, you know, abruptly edited into everything

01:19:49.319 --> 01:19:51.920
else. But yeah, thematically, it's like why?

01:19:52.939 --> 01:19:56.359
I don't know. Nature turning on humanity or or.

01:19:56.760 --> 01:19:59.060
Well, yeah, like a child turning on its mother,

01:19:59.119 --> 01:20:02.340
you know, which, of course, is her her greatest

01:20:02.340 --> 01:20:06.390
fear at that moment. Yeah. which we see in it's

01:20:06.390 --> 01:20:10.350
alive and you know the fly touches on that with

01:20:10.350 --> 01:20:12.390
gina davis so like we've seen that before i think

01:20:12.390 --> 01:20:16.109
it's always an effective metaphor even if it's

01:20:16.109 --> 01:20:18.109
not executed maybe to the best of its ability

01:20:18.109 --> 01:20:22.369
yeah yeah it's that is a strange moment that

01:20:22.369 --> 01:20:24.350
didn't make a lot of sense to me narratively

01:20:24.350 --> 01:20:26.640
but thematically it's pretty interesting A hundred

01:20:26.640 --> 01:20:31.100
percent. Like so many other things. And how did

01:20:31.100 --> 01:20:33.840
she not die? I think like ripped her jugular

01:20:33.840 --> 01:20:38.100
out. Like, yeah, I couldn't even tell who was

01:20:38.100 --> 01:20:40.159
being attacked at first. Like I thought it was,

01:20:40.220 --> 01:20:42.340
there are several other characters that are kind

01:20:42.340 --> 01:20:44.060
of hiding out with them at that same moment.

01:20:44.159 --> 01:20:46.159
I think there's a native American woman who's

01:20:46.159 --> 01:20:47.739
kind of joining them. And I thought it was her

01:20:47.739 --> 01:20:49.859
that was getting attacked at first. So yeah,

01:20:49.979 --> 01:20:53.500
maybe. Yeah. That's an example. I think by the

01:20:53.500 --> 01:20:56.640
end of this movie, The wheels come off, honestly.

01:20:56.840 --> 01:20:59.819
And Frankenheimer clearly might have been drunk

01:20:59.819 --> 01:21:04.520
or just didn't care. But the precision that this

01:21:04.520 --> 01:21:08.760
movie starts with is missing by the end. By the

01:21:08.760 --> 01:21:13.140
end, it is just a schlock fest. Reason be damned.

01:21:14.119 --> 01:21:18.060
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yep. I think one of the

01:21:18.060 --> 01:21:20.579
critics reviews said it devolves into pure hokum,

01:21:20.659 --> 01:21:22.640
which I think is pretty accurate. Absolutely.

01:21:22.899 --> 01:21:25.460
Yeah. Yeah. There's still maybe some interesting

01:21:25.460 --> 01:21:31.380
stuff in there, though. I loved it. Yeah? Spoiling

01:21:31.380 --> 01:21:38.239
the ending here. Is that any other themes we

01:21:38.239 --> 01:21:39.920
want to mention? I feel like there honestly are

01:21:39.920 --> 01:21:41.899
probably more, but those are the major ones at

01:21:41.899 --> 01:21:45.199
least. Which is very surprising that there are

01:21:45.199 --> 01:21:48.180
so many things packed into this little film,

01:21:48.220 --> 01:21:52.479
but I think we can end it there. Okay. Do you

01:21:52.479 --> 01:21:54.359
think it's time for our individual breakdowns?

01:21:54.359 --> 01:21:56.739
We could wrap up our formal conversation in there.

01:21:57.199 --> 01:22:01.079
I think that'd be awesome. Okay, cool. So yeah,

01:22:01.140 --> 01:22:04.500
let's talk about the good, the bad, and the campy.

01:22:05.020 --> 01:22:07.039
You know, as I think we've alluded to, there

01:22:07.039 --> 01:22:09.399
is some good stuff in this movie. It's, you know,

01:22:09.399 --> 01:22:11.779
I feel like this is kind of seen as like ridiculous

01:22:11.779 --> 01:22:14.600
and campy and like just kind of so bad it's good

01:22:14.600 --> 01:22:17.239
by some people. But there's some genuinely good

01:22:17.239 --> 01:22:19.880
stuff. And I'll just say, you know, I'll start

01:22:19.880 --> 01:22:21.659
it off and then I'll turn it over to you. But

01:22:21.659 --> 01:22:25.260
I think there is an attempt to make a significant

01:22:25.260 --> 01:22:28.039
emotional movie. You know, I don't know if it

01:22:28.039 --> 01:22:30.800
totally pulls that off, but like it is trying

01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:33.300
to build complex characters who have very human

01:22:33.300 --> 01:22:37.380
fears and desires and like anxieties. And it's

01:22:37.380 --> 01:22:40.380
talking about negative forces in the real world

01:22:40.380 --> 01:22:42.539
that obviously are still with us to this day.

01:22:43.079 --> 01:22:46.439
And anytime a movie is that ambitious, I'm going

01:22:46.439 --> 01:22:49.359
to appreciate that attempt at depth and complexity.

01:22:50.319 --> 01:22:54.300
Yeah, yeah. This movie had a stronger impact

01:22:54.300 --> 01:22:57.340
than I ever thought it would. I just heard mutant

01:22:57.340 --> 01:23:00.939
bear movie. I said, okay, that's enough to keep

01:23:00.939 --> 01:23:03.899
me. But everything you just said is enough to,

01:23:04.000 --> 01:23:07.880
well, the schlock is getting me into the door.

01:23:08.270 --> 01:23:10.710
But what you just said is keeping me in my seat.

01:23:10.810 --> 01:23:13.329
I'm like, okay, I can sit with this movie. I

01:23:13.329 --> 01:23:18.369
can grapple with this movie. I liked a lot of

01:23:18.369 --> 01:23:21.729
choices with the camera. I like the direction.

01:23:22.689 --> 01:23:26.310
For example, the whole sequence when they are

01:23:26.310 --> 01:23:30.510
down in the tunnel hiding from the bear. This

01:23:30.510 --> 01:23:34.369
shot, this whole scene to me is the best of the

01:23:34.369 --> 01:23:37.659
movie because you have the... The soundtrack

01:23:37.659 --> 01:23:42.180
of the bear and men screaming, you can only hear

01:23:42.180 --> 01:23:46.020
the terror, which I find very effective. And

01:23:46.020 --> 01:23:51.439
everyone down below is as still as death. Like

01:23:51.439 --> 01:23:54.079
they're so quiet because they're petrified, right?

01:23:54.140 --> 01:23:57.720
If you make a sound, you're dead. And Frankenheimer

01:23:57.720 --> 01:24:02.920
is visually communicating by just focusing on

01:24:02.920 --> 01:24:05.260
people's eyes because now people are just communicating

01:24:05.260 --> 01:24:08.439
with their eyes. And there's some like, maybe

01:24:08.439 --> 01:24:11.359
it's the diopter shot. I can't tell. Or it looked

01:24:11.359 --> 01:24:17.840
like that. But I just found that scene as suspenseful

01:24:17.840 --> 01:24:21.739
as it could be in this movie. With the sounds

01:24:21.739 --> 01:24:25.300
and the lack of sounds as well. Yeah, I love

01:24:25.300 --> 01:24:28.960
that whole sequence. Yeah, totally. I agree with

01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:31.800
that for sure. And if I can just bring up one

01:24:31.800 --> 01:24:33.979
more example of a scene that I really loved formally,

01:24:34.199 --> 01:24:36.340
it's actually just the beginning of the movie

01:24:36.340 --> 01:24:39.060
where before the credits, all we see is like

01:24:39.060 --> 01:24:42.100
three beams of light. It's like flashlights that

01:24:42.100 --> 01:24:43.979
are being carried by the lumberjacks before they

01:24:43.979 --> 01:24:46.560
are killed by the monster. And the only thing

01:24:46.560 --> 01:24:48.840
on the soundtrack is like the sound of wind and

01:24:48.840 --> 01:24:51.079
like some of the animals in the forest. It's

01:24:51.079 --> 01:24:54.119
really creepy and minimalist. And then... That

01:24:54.119 --> 01:24:56.779
cuts to like the men's corpses the following

01:24:56.779 --> 01:24:58.699
morning. And there's like classical music on

01:24:58.699 --> 01:25:00.739
the soundtrack. I was like, oh, that's a weird

01:25:00.739 --> 01:25:02.439
choice. Where is this coming from? And then it

01:25:02.439 --> 01:25:05.939
very slowly dissolves to a performance space

01:25:05.939 --> 01:25:08.020
where Talia Shire's character is playing the

01:25:08.020 --> 01:25:11.220
cello during a performance. And that whole opening

01:25:11.220 --> 01:25:13.560
is really strange and kind of like dreamlike

01:25:13.560 --> 01:25:16.699
almost. And I was like totally hooked. And then

01:25:16.699 --> 01:25:18.439
I think it does kind of go downhill from there.

01:25:18.520 --> 01:25:23.439
But that opening really grabs you. I agree. This

01:25:23.439 --> 01:25:27.760
is the John Frankenheimer of Manchurian Candidate

01:25:27.760 --> 01:25:30.460
of all those other movies. You're like, oh, he

01:25:30.460 --> 01:25:34.619
could do it. He could elevate this movie. But

01:25:34.619 --> 01:25:37.020
then, yeah, it just devolves into nonsense by

01:25:37.020 --> 01:25:40.760
the end. With that said, I love in the end sequence,

01:25:41.060 --> 01:25:44.600
it involves a lake at night and there's a lot

01:25:44.600 --> 01:25:47.859
of fog on this lake. I just found the whole thing

01:25:47.859 --> 01:25:50.779
visually striking and really beautiful. I was

01:25:50.779 --> 01:25:53.539
like, I love. everything i'm seeing right now

01:25:53.539 --> 01:25:58.539
and then that dumb bear costume enters yeah it

01:25:58.539 --> 01:26:00.779
could have been so great if just the monster

01:26:00.779 --> 01:26:03.239
itself was like looked a little better you know

01:26:03.239 --> 01:26:10.819
or a lot better a lot better yeah yeah and some

01:26:10.819 --> 01:26:12.979
other stuff i'm sorry i'm gonna look up a character's

01:26:12.979 --> 01:26:14.600
name real quick because i can't remember what

01:26:14.600 --> 01:26:17.340
it is offhand it has to do with that ending though

01:26:17.340 --> 01:26:20.640
let's see here Yeah, so there's another Native

01:26:20.640 --> 01:26:23.420
American character named Ramona, who's kind of

01:26:23.420 --> 01:26:26.399
John Hawk's significant other in the movie. And

01:26:26.399 --> 01:26:29.979
Ramona's grandfather, I think, Hector, is kind

01:26:29.979 --> 01:26:31.699
of along for the ride. He doesn't really have

01:26:31.699 --> 01:26:34.100
a lot to do. Maybe that's part of the, he might

01:26:34.100 --> 01:26:36.119
be part of the campy category for me, to be honest,

01:26:36.199 --> 01:26:38.220
which is kind of unfortunate. Played by the same

01:26:38.220 --> 01:26:40.539
actor who appears in Little Big Man. What's his

01:26:40.539 --> 01:26:42.680
name? I feel like I should call him out. George

01:26:42.680 --> 01:26:47.020
Clutezi. Canadian First Nations actor. Anyway,

01:26:47.140 --> 01:26:49.539
like in that ending, you know, like he kind of

01:26:49.539 --> 01:26:52.340
is just like is fodder for the bear. He's killed

01:26:52.340 --> 01:26:54.199
almost immediately. But like the moment really

01:26:54.199 --> 01:26:56.220
falls flat. And it's like, oh, this could have

01:26:56.220 --> 01:26:57.880
been like a really striking moment with that

01:26:57.880 --> 01:27:00.439
atmosphere and the fog and the lake. And then,

01:27:00.439 --> 01:27:03.119
you know, it's just kind of a wasted moment.

01:27:03.220 --> 01:27:05.260
So it's like it looks great and it should be

01:27:05.260 --> 01:27:08.199
better. But it is like formally a striking scene

01:27:08.199 --> 01:27:10.680
for sure. But let's talk about the bad stuff,

01:27:10.779 --> 01:27:12.199
because obviously there's a lot of bad stuff,

01:27:12.279 --> 01:27:15.479
too. You know, you probably have to start with

01:27:15.479 --> 01:27:17.720
the bear costume, right? I mean, it's so, it's

01:27:17.720 --> 01:27:21.239
laughable in this movie. It's, it's, but it's

01:27:21.239 --> 01:27:28.500
like, confusedly so. Like, what, why did, who

01:27:28.500 --> 01:27:34.560
did, how did this thing pass any sort of test?

01:27:35.220 --> 01:27:37.739
Like, did the, is that on the producer to say,

01:27:37.920 --> 01:27:40.300
well, well, well, this is not what we're going

01:27:40.300 --> 01:27:44.920
to put on camera, right guys? Like it is so bad.

01:27:45.779 --> 01:27:50.159
Yeah, it is. It's yeah, it should be like inexcusable.

01:27:50.199 --> 01:27:51.760
Somebody along the line should have been like,

01:27:51.840 --> 01:27:54.960
we are not doing this, you know? Yeah. But why

01:27:54.960 --> 01:27:57.020
is it bad? Let's let's be clear for our listeners.

01:27:57.619 --> 01:28:01.119
Let's be good critics. Why is it bad? I think

01:28:01.119 --> 01:28:05.380
the it's like I think it's a poorly made rubber

01:28:05.380 --> 01:28:09.079
type suit. So when the actor inside is running,

01:28:09.239 --> 01:28:13.079
the thing just kind of flops around. It looks

01:28:13.079 --> 01:28:16.520
like it's on wheels at times, the way it moves

01:28:16.520 --> 01:28:18.180
through the forest. And it could have been on

01:28:18.180 --> 01:28:20.720
wheels. I've seen that in other movies of this

01:28:20.720 --> 01:28:26.300
ilk. Yeah, it's just not a believably animalistic

01:28:26.300 --> 01:28:30.239
suit. Yeah, and I think because it is just like

01:28:30.239 --> 01:28:33.949
a big rubber thing. Like a big rubber salami,

01:28:33.989 --> 01:28:35.770
basically, you know? I think another critic used

01:28:35.770 --> 01:28:38.069
that line. But, you know, I think like because

01:28:38.069 --> 01:28:40.270
of that, we barely ever see, we don't really

01:28:40.270 --> 01:28:41.810
get a good look at it. Like usually it's like

01:28:41.810 --> 01:28:44.310
split second shots or it's from the distance

01:28:44.310 --> 01:28:46.250
when it's like not really lit very well, you

01:28:46.250 --> 01:28:49.010
know? And obviously that makes it even worse.

01:28:49.090 --> 01:28:50.930
If you can't even see the monster and it's like,

01:28:51.069 --> 01:28:54.270
what I see of it's bad, but I don't necessarily

01:28:54.270 --> 01:28:56.770
know what I'm seeing. That's just the worst of

01:28:56.770 --> 01:29:00.250
both worlds, you know? Yeah. I think the scale

01:29:00.250 --> 01:29:03.750
of this creature is way off. Like, I don't understand

01:29:03.750 --> 01:29:07.909
how tall it is. Different scenes have it being

01:29:07.909 --> 01:29:10.369
the size of like a tree, like gargantuan. But

01:29:10.369 --> 01:29:13.130
then there are some shots. There's so much close

01:29:13.130 --> 01:29:15.210
ups of this thing that I don't really get a sense

01:29:15.210 --> 01:29:19.810
of it. Yeah. Yeah. It also doesn't make narrative

01:29:19.810 --> 01:29:21.970
sense because there's a line of dialogue. I think

01:29:21.970 --> 01:29:23.949
the main character, Dr. Verne, is saying like,

01:29:24.109 --> 01:29:26.729
you know, this seems to be an amalgamation of

01:29:26.729 --> 01:29:28.890
all the creatures in the forest, like going through

01:29:28.890 --> 01:29:32.159
evolution at a rapid pace. But like. sort of

01:29:32.159 --> 01:29:34.060
like a human fetus does. So that kind of brings

01:29:34.060 --> 01:29:36.100
in that theme, you know? I don't know if the

01:29:36.100 --> 01:29:37.960
science of that is accurate, but I'm not like,

01:29:38.020 --> 01:29:39.680
I'm obviously not a doctor, so I can't speak

01:29:39.680 --> 01:29:42.699
to that. But anyway, the character is like, this

01:29:42.699 --> 01:29:45.340
creature seems to be all the animals of the forest

01:29:45.340 --> 01:29:47.060
put together. And then you see this thing and

01:29:47.060 --> 01:29:50.260
it's just like a sloppy, bloody bear. It's like,

01:29:50.260 --> 01:29:52.420
what's going on here? It makes no sense. Well,

01:29:52.439 --> 01:29:55.039
that's a holdover from the chimera idea that

01:29:55.039 --> 01:29:57.640
they had. Yeah. But you would think then they

01:29:57.640 --> 01:29:59.340
would like cut that line of dialogue or something,

01:29:59.500 --> 01:30:03.029
you know? You would think. Right. In a more carefully

01:30:03.029 --> 01:30:06.489
made movie. Yeah. I know you said you had other

01:30:06.489 --> 01:30:08.449
stuff in the bad category. What else do you have?

01:30:09.270 --> 01:30:12.949
Well, two things. So the whole attack with the

01:30:12.949 --> 01:30:17.390
raccoon, A, was extremely campy, but it also

01:30:17.390 --> 01:30:21.670
made me question the treatment of animals on

01:30:21.670 --> 01:30:24.390
this movie. Like with that raccoon, that raccoon

01:30:24.390 --> 01:30:27.350
looked scared. Like it looked, it was in distress.

01:30:28.399 --> 01:30:30.319
And I know the 70s with these creature features

01:30:30.319 --> 01:30:33.560
didn't always have the best track record with

01:30:33.560 --> 01:30:35.680
taking care of their animals. So I want to call

01:30:35.680 --> 01:30:39.960
that out. Yeah. I still don't really understand

01:30:39.960 --> 01:30:43.680
why this public health worker is contacted to

01:30:43.680 --> 01:30:47.680
work for the EPA. Yeah. That just seemed like,

01:30:47.859 --> 01:30:49.460
well, we need you to do this, so we're going

01:30:49.460 --> 01:30:53.060
to do it for the sake of the plot. Come on, Seltzer.

01:30:53.100 --> 01:30:55.239
You could have justified it a little bit more.

01:30:55.920 --> 01:30:58.100
Yeah. Why not just make him an employee for the

01:30:58.100 --> 01:30:59.979
EPA? That's like a much easier way to set it

01:30:59.979 --> 01:31:03.659
up. Bingo. There you go. Yeah. I thought that

01:31:03.659 --> 01:31:06.060
was weird too. With the raccoon thing, if I may,

01:31:06.140 --> 01:31:08.819
can I add something real quick? Sorry. My research,

01:31:08.880 --> 01:31:12.960
I did learn that like, so like the American Humane

01:31:12.960 --> 01:31:15.619
Society did monitor like animal treatment at

01:31:15.619 --> 01:31:18.439
this time in like the late seventies, but they

01:31:18.439 --> 01:31:20.640
were not present on like every production. They

01:31:20.640 --> 01:31:23.380
just kind of had to get like, you know. paperwork

01:31:23.380 --> 01:31:26.039
and like reports and stuff like that. So I learned

01:31:26.039 --> 01:31:28.800
that like during the filming of that scene, the

01:31:28.800 --> 01:31:31.880
actor was told to like. to terrorize the raccoon

01:31:31.880 --> 01:31:34.819
and hit it and kill it. And like the actor at

01:31:34.819 --> 01:31:36.479
first was like, no, I don't want to do that.

01:31:36.600 --> 01:31:38.180
Like, I'm not going to kill a raccoon for this.

01:31:38.300 --> 01:31:40.560
And Frankenheimer was like, no, just like beat

01:31:40.560 --> 01:31:43.439
it up, like smash it against the wall. So like

01:31:43.439 --> 01:31:45.579
one of the crew members told the American Humane

01:31:45.579 --> 01:31:47.960
Society about this. And like somebody from the

01:31:47.960 --> 01:31:51.319
AHS did go to the set and like stop them from

01:31:51.319 --> 01:31:54.239
killing this raccoon. From what I read, Frankenheimer

01:31:54.239 --> 01:31:56.680
wanted to throw the raccoon in the fire and kill

01:31:56.680 --> 01:31:59.319
it. And like then they had to use a dummy instead

01:31:59.319 --> 01:32:01.720
because like. the AHS representative was there.

01:32:01.920 --> 01:32:04.060
So you're right to call out that scene. That

01:32:04.060 --> 01:32:07.279
was an animal clearly being mistreated and it's

01:32:07.279 --> 01:32:10.359
a hard scene to watch. I hate everything you

01:32:10.359 --> 01:32:12.840
just said. Thank you for sharing it, but that

01:32:12.840 --> 01:32:16.800
makes me so uncomfortable. Yeah, it's rough.

01:32:17.699 --> 01:32:21.939
That belongs in the bad category for sure. That's

01:32:21.939 --> 01:32:26.800
pretty terrible. Different time, I suppose, but

01:32:26.800 --> 01:32:28.779
that doesn't age well, right? That's like a dated

01:32:28.779 --> 01:32:33.489
bad. type of thing. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, my

01:32:33.489 --> 01:32:37.569
main criticism was with the ending of this film.

01:32:37.670 --> 01:32:40.430
I think it ends way too abruptly. We don't get

01:32:40.430 --> 01:32:44.930
any resolution, closure with the baby subplot,

01:32:44.930 --> 01:32:48.409
with Talia Shire. They just take off in a plane,

01:32:48.609 --> 01:32:51.409
and yeah, spoiler alert, there's another mutant

01:32:51.409 --> 01:32:54.890
bear out there, which is where this movie has

01:32:54.890 --> 01:32:57.310
gone. By the end of this movie, we only care

01:32:57.310 --> 01:32:59.880
about the monster. But there's that movie from

01:32:59.880 --> 01:33:02.800
the beginning with the whole emotional roller

01:33:02.800 --> 01:33:06.100
coaster of will she keep the baby or not that

01:33:06.100 --> 01:33:09.739
we don't get any closure on. And in a movie like

01:33:09.739 --> 01:33:13.420
this, I do need that closure. This isn't a movie

01:33:13.420 --> 01:33:16.640
where I needed an open -ended mystery. I need

01:33:16.640 --> 01:33:19.880
to know how this couple fares in the aftermath

01:33:19.880 --> 01:33:24.000
of this horrific weekend in the woods. Yeah.

01:33:25.540 --> 01:33:28.699
Yeah, 100 % agree. That to me is the most emotionally

01:33:28.699 --> 01:33:31.279
effective subplot in the movie, and it goes nowhere.

01:33:31.380 --> 01:33:33.300
You don't find out what happens with it. It's

01:33:33.300 --> 01:33:36.840
very frustrating. Terrible. Yeah. You do find

01:33:36.840 --> 01:33:39.060
out what happens in the novelization, but maybe

01:33:39.060 --> 01:33:41.060
I'll just, I won't go into detail about that.

01:33:41.159 --> 01:33:43.300
If anybody, I don't know who would want to read

01:33:43.300 --> 01:33:45.140
the novelization after watching this movie, but

01:33:45.140 --> 01:33:47.399
if you do want to, they wrap up that story a

01:33:47.399 --> 01:33:49.180
little bit more. Maybe I'll tell you off camera

01:33:49.180 --> 01:33:51.489
a little more about it. All right. But I think

01:33:51.489 --> 01:33:53.229
you hit the nail on the head when you said that

01:33:53.229 --> 01:33:55.010
all the movie cares about at the end is the monster.

01:33:55.310 --> 01:33:57.229
And that's maybe the worst part of this movie,

01:33:57.310 --> 01:33:59.289
which is unfortunate because we're on a monster

01:33:59.289 --> 01:34:02.630
movie podcast. But, you know, like, yeah, there's

01:34:02.630 --> 01:34:04.449
a lot that's compelling and kind of admirable

01:34:04.449 --> 01:34:06.930
about this movie at first. And then it just all

01:34:06.930 --> 01:34:10.170
falls apart. And even like formally, I feel like

01:34:10.170 --> 01:34:12.130
there are way too many scenes towards the end

01:34:12.130 --> 01:34:14.430
where like it's so repetitive. It's the same

01:34:14.430 --> 01:34:17.050
thing over and over again. It's like. A long,

01:34:17.149 --> 01:34:19.210
slow, silent scene where there are a bunch of

01:34:19.210 --> 01:34:21.489
close -ups of the actors waiting in suspense,

01:34:21.850 --> 01:34:24.329
and then suddenly a loud musical sting, and this

01:34:24.329 --> 01:34:26.189
terrible -looking bear jumps out of nowhere,

01:34:26.409 --> 01:34:28.649
and then the music's really loud and abrasive

01:34:28.649 --> 01:34:30.689
for a while, and then they escape, and then the

01:34:30.689 --> 01:34:34.449
same thing happens. It's just a very poorly made

01:34:34.449 --> 01:34:37.850
movie in the end. Maybe not initially, but like,

01:34:38.029 --> 01:34:40.529
yeah, wasted opportunity, because it could have

01:34:40.529 --> 01:34:44.189
been way better than it is. Totally, yeah. Oh,

01:34:44.210 --> 01:34:49.579
man, so frustrating. But where this movie also

01:34:49.579 --> 01:34:55.119
is bad, I find it charmingly campy, wonderfully

01:34:55.119 --> 01:35:03.460
insane, just gonzo crazy moviemaking. Maybe I

01:35:03.460 --> 01:35:08.100
didn't use that term properly. No, I agree for

01:35:08.100 --> 01:35:15.840
sure. It is gonzo. Yeah. I mean, the sleeping

01:35:15.840 --> 01:35:17.840
bag scene, right? That's got to be a campy moment

01:35:17.840 --> 01:35:20.560
number one. It's incredible. Number one. Number

01:35:20.560 --> 01:35:24.920
one. Well, number one is when the giant fish

01:35:24.920 --> 01:35:30.779
leaps out of the water. Good point. It foreshadows

01:35:30.779 --> 01:35:33.319
the effects you're going to see later in this

01:35:33.319 --> 01:35:37.279
movie. I went, oh, no. If that's what we have

01:35:37.279 --> 01:35:41.800
in store here, this movie's not going to be what

01:35:41.800 --> 01:35:44.670
it was in the beginning. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

01:35:45.449 --> 01:35:48.449
And like that happens when Bob is fishing and

01:35:48.449 --> 01:35:51.130
then they like cook and eat the fish. And it's

01:35:51.130 --> 01:35:53.229
like, dude, you just saw like a 10 foot fish

01:35:53.229 --> 01:35:55.449
jump out of the water right next to you. Maybe

01:35:55.449 --> 01:35:57.470
you should not be eating this fish right now,

01:35:57.510 --> 01:36:02.529
you know? Yeah, that nighttime attack when the

01:36:02.529 --> 01:36:06.470
bear attacks the camp. It's like what we love

01:36:06.470 --> 01:36:11.479
in King Kong Lives. It's a quintessential. Everything

01:36:11.479 --> 01:36:15.279
goes bananas at once. Cars explode. There's bodies

01:36:15.279 --> 01:36:22.579
on fire. It's just pandemonium. Yeah. Totally

01:36:22.579 --> 01:36:27.500
ridiculous, yeah. And, like, it defies the laws

01:36:27.500 --> 01:36:30.560
of physics. Like, a human body just, like, erupts

01:36:30.560 --> 01:36:33.140
into, like, feathers, you know? It's, like, so

01:36:33.140 --> 01:36:36.699
bizarre, that moment. It was that. Oh yeah. When

01:36:36.699 --> 01:36:39.420
the bear knocks anybody, they go flying, you

01:36:39.420 --> 01:36:42.539
know, a hundred yards. It's very funny. The decapitation

01:36:42.539 --> 01:36:46.640
came out of nowhere. Sick fact about me. I love

01:36:46.640 --> 01:36:49.340
a decapitation in a movie when it's just like

01:36:49.340 --> 01:36:51.659
comes out of nowhere and you're like, Oh, that

01:36:51.659 --> 01:36:56.659
guy just lost his head. Yeah. It's a, it's a

01:36:56.659 --> 01:36:59.819
great, reliable, gross out moment. For sure.

01:37:00.380 --> 01:37:05.850
It's so jarring. The bear at the end goes like

01:37:05.850 --> 01:37:09.149
full like wolf and the three little pigs and

01:37:09.149 --> 01:37:12.069
just blows the house down. Just knocks it to

01:37:12.069 --> 01:37:16.109
smithereens. And I'm like, oh my God, what is

01:37:16.109 --> 01:37:22.210
happening right now? It was so fun. Yeah. That

01:37:22.210 --> 01:37:24.850
reminded me of King Kong lives that moment in

01:37:24.850 --> 01:37:27.770
the climax of King Kong lives when he like rips

01:37:27.770 --> 01:37:29.789
off like the roof of the barn that they're hiding

01:37:29.789 --> 01:37:34.170
in or whatever, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's

01:37:34.170 --> 01:37:38.789
all about connections on Camp Kaju. There's one

01:37:38.789 --> 01:37:41.390
more if I may. Yeah, absolutely. It's with the,

01:37:41.430 --> 01:37:44.609
first of all, well, the title Prophecy, I don't

01:37:44.609 --> 01:37:47.529
understand. I could say it's a bad title because

01:37:47.529 --> 01:37:51.270
unless it's like this movie is a prophetic message

01:37:51.270 --> 01:37:54.609
about the environment, but I think it's a bad

01:37:54.609 --> 01:37:57.770
title. But what's campy about it is there's a

01:37:57.770 --> 01:38:01.390
subtitle, which is The Monster Movie. It's literally

01:38:01.390 --> 01:38:05.369
called Prophecy the Monster Movie as if somebody

01:38:05.369 --> 01:38:08.090
went and said, hey, we have to add this because

01:38:08.090 --> 01:38:11.210
otherwise nobody knows what it's about. So I

01:38:11.210 --> 01:38:13.109
think it's campy that it's called the Monster

01:38:13.109 --> 01:38:17.289
Movie. Yeah. It kind of makes sense because the

01:38:17.289 --> 01:38:19.649
name Prophecy does not suggest a monster movie.

01:38:19.789 --> 01:38:21.710
So it's just like a weird conflation, you know?

01:38:21.789 --> 01:38:28.359
Yeah. It's like a parentheses. Yeah. Just in

01:38:28.359 --> 01:38:29.979
case you watch this movie and you're not sure

01:38:29.979 --> 01:38:31.460
what you're watching, it is indeed a monster

01:38:31.460 --> 01:38:38.560
movie. Yeah, all of that, obviously super, very,

01:38:38.600 --> 01:38:41.619
very campy. I briefly mentioned the Hector character

01:38:41.619 --> 01:38:44.739
before, who I think, unfortunately, I think he's

01:38:44.739 --> 01:38:47.720
the campiest example of the sort of simplistic

01:38:47.720 --> 01:38:50.500
mysticism of the movie, where he's like, you

01:38:50.500 --> 01:38:54.420
know. all god's creatures are are one i think

01:38:54.420 --> 01:38:56.039
it's something like that and like he doesn't

01:38:56.039 --> 01:38:57.960
really say any more than that and it's like oh

01:38:57.960 --> 01:39:00.640
it's it's hard to know the point of that character

01:39:00.640 --> 01:39:02.479
and then he's kind of just like suddenly killed

01:39:02.479 --> 01:39:04.659
at the end and you're like oh i guess he didn't

01:39:04.659 --> 01:39:06.739
really have a point that's not campy in like

01:39:06.739 --> 01:39:09.979
a very funny way like it's more of like an unfortunate

01:39:09.979 --> 01:39:13.159
unsettling way but i did find that character

01:39:13.159 --> 01:39:17.260
pretty campy yeah Yeah, like all this, like,

01:39:17.319 --> 01:39:19.899
you know, giant fish, like a giant tadpole that's

01:39:19.899 --> 01:39:22.180
the size of a frog. All that stuff is so ridiculous.

01:39:23.479 --> 01:39:28.840
Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, definitely a lot

01:39:28.840 --> 01:39:32.359
of campy, a lot of bad and some good. So now

01:39:32.359 --> 01:39:35.300
it's time to give the movie a rating. Is it our

01:39:35.300 --> 01:39:37.439
highest rating? It's a timeless classic. It definitely

01:39:37.439 --> 01:39:41.000
stands the test of time. Our second rating, there

01:39:41.000 --> 01:39:43.119
may be some antiquated moments, but overall it's

01:39:43.119 --> 01:39:45.500
great. It stands the test of time. Our third

01:39:45.500 --> 01:39:47.760
rating, it may be historically significant or

01:39:47.760 --> 01:39:49.960
just fun, but it does not stand the test of time.

01:39:50.239 --> 01:39:53.159
And our lowest rating, it is not worth revisiting.

01:39:53.279 --> 01:39:55.640
It definitely does not stand the test of time.

01:39:57.079 --> 01:40:00.250
Tough choice. Do you... Do you want to go first?

01:40:00.350 --> 01:40:02.170
Is that, is it all right? I'll go first. Cause

01:40:02.170 --> 01:40:04.670
this was your pick. So I'll give you the, you

01:40:04.670 --> 01:40:09.989
know, the honors there, but okay. I was pleasantly

01:40:09.989 --> 01:40:13.829
taken with this film. I love a camp fest. I think

01:40:13.829 --> 01:40:17.470
this movie puts the camp and camp Kaiju. So,

01:40:17.489 --> 01:40:20.270
you know, if it's ever playing at a screening,

01:40:20.449 --> 01:40:25.250
I'm there. I, you know, so, so I think it's campy

01:40:25.250 --> 01:40:29.109
in all the best ways. But I also found it surprisingly

01:40:29.109 --> 01:40:34.329
deep in its thematic messaging. There are some

01:40:34.329 --> 01:40:36.369
bad things, especially that thing with the raccoon.

01:40:36.430 --> 01:40:40.569
So I cannot give it our highest honor. I am sorry

01:40:40.569 --> 01:40:44.489
to say I can't do that. But I can give it our

01:40:44.489 --> 01:40:46.630
second highest. I think there are antiquated

01:40:46.630 --> 01:40:51.409
moments in racial caricatures, in animal abuse.

01:40:51.590 --> 01:40:53.289
Those sound really terrible now that I say it

01:40:53.289 --> 01:40:57.359
out loud. Those are bad. Those are bad. But this

01:40:57.359 --> 01:41:03.800
movie is so dumb that it's a thrill ride for

01:41:03.800 --> 01:41:06.800
warts and all. So I think it does stand the test

01:41:06.800 --> 01:41:11.859
of time. Nice. I love that. I wish I could give

01:41:11.859 --> 01:41:14.159
it the same rating, but I think I will give it

01:41:14.159 --> 01:41:16.399
one rating less than that. I'm not going to give

01:41:16.399 --> 01:41:18.760
it our lowest rating because there is a lot of

01:41:18.760 --> 01:41:20.500
stuff to admire about this movie. And I think

01:41:20.500 --> 01:41:24.260
it's trying, even if it doesn't succeed. So yeah,

01:41:24.300 --> 01:41:27.819
this movie. It's maybe sort of historically significant.

01:41:27.960 --> 01:41:29.819
I think it's an interesting reflection of when

01:41:29.819 --> 01:41:32.340
it was made. And it's certainly fun at times.

01:41:32.380 --> 01:41:34.899
Like you said, a total thrill ride. You never

01:41:34.899 --> 01:41:37.579
know what's going to happen next. But it is frustrating,

01:41:37.779 --> 01:41:40.539
like the wasted opportunities. I think it's ultimately

01:41:40.539 --> 01:41:44.300
pretty poorly made. I think a lot of its themes

01:41:44.300 --> 01:41:48.680
are pretty simplistic. Even if I do admire what

01:41:48.680 --> 01:41:50.500
they're trying to get at, there's not a lot of

01:41:50.500 --> 01:41:52.960
depth to them. And then, of course, just like

01:41:52.960 --> 01:41:55.100
the monster elements, the horror elements are

01:41:55.100 --> 01:41:57.779
pretty poorly done, I would say. So there's a

01:41:57.779 --> 01:42:00.319
lot that I like about this movie, but I don't

01:42:00.319 --> 01:42:02.300
think it stands the test of time. It is worth

01:42:02.300 --> 01:42:04.079
watching, though, for anybody that has not seen

01:42:04.079 --> 01:42:07.720
it. It is so interesting. Please, folks, let

01:42:07.720 --> 01:42:10.380
us know your thoughts on this one -of -a -kind

01:42:10.380 --> 01:42:14.180
movie. Yeah. One -of -a -kind. Absolutely. Yeah.

01:42:14.920 --> 01:42:17.340
This was a fun one. A lot to talk about. I'm

01:42:17.340 --> 01:42:18.779
not going to forget this movie anytime soon.

01:42:19.439 --> 01:42:21.600
Next time on Camp Kaiju, we'll be going back

01:42:21.600 --> 01:42:24.340
to the silent era and talking about Lon Chaney's

01:42:24.340 --> 01:42:27.060
Phantom of the Opera. Thank you again for hanging

01:42:27.060 --> 01:42:29.020
out, friends. Please rate and review wherever

01:42:29.020 --> 01:42:31.479
you listen. You can also share this podcast with

01:42:31.479 --> 01:42:34.119
a friend, subscribe to the website, and send

01:42:34.119 --> 01:42:37.100
us listener comments at campkaiju at gmail .com

01:42:37.100 --> 01:42:40.239
or on Instagram. Links in the show notes. If

01:42:40.239 --> 01:42:41.840
you'd like to be a featured voice on the show,

01:42:41.939 --> 01:42:46.859
leave a voicemail at 612 -470 -2612 telling us

01:42:46.859 --> 01:42:48.819
about your favorite monster movies and memories.

01:42:49.199 --> 01:42:51.720
Please check out our website, CampKaijuPodcast

01:42:51.720 --> 01:42:54.939
.com for more information. Camp Kaiju is recorded

01:42:54.939 --> 01:42:56.979
in Minneapolis, St. Paul with Media's Mailbox

01:42:56.979 --> 01:43:00.100
Music by Ben Cook Feltz. Thanks, friends. And

01:43:00.100 --> 01:43:04.039
until next time, stay campy. Camp Kaiju is sponsored

01:43:04.039 --> 01:43:05.840
by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack, powered by

01:43:05.840 --> 01:43:07.880
Coldwell Banker Realty, your source for real

01:43:07.880 --> 01:43:10.380
estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor

01:43:10.380 --> 01:43:12.739
clients and residential buyers. Reach out to

01:43:12.739 --> 01:43:14.399
the Zach Pack today for real estate services.

01:43:14.640 --> 01:43:17.420
Follow the Zach Pack on social media and contact

01:43:17.420 --> 01:43:19.859
the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Link

01:43:19.859 --> 01:43:26.939
in the show notes. It's a tadpole. I told you

01:43:26.939 --> 01:43:28.000
things grow big here.