And then the military is trying to shoot apparently
both Lady Kong and King Kong. And Hank is like
just causing havoc in every way he possibly can.
It's like, man, this is pandemonium. It immediately
just like devolves into chaos. And they're like
cars on fire. I love that. Yeah, that scene is
amazing. It's just like totally ridiculous the
entire time. It's so fun. Hello and welcome to
Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Podcast. We are your
hosts, Vincent Hannum. And Matt Levine. And we're
talking about all of our favorite monster movies,
the good, the bad, and the downright campy, and
asking if they stand the test of time. Traditional
kaiju, creature features, space invaders, the
supernatural, and everything in between. All
strange beasts welcome here. Camp Kaiju is sponsored
by Zach Linder and The Zach Pack, powered by
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estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor
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in the show notes. Now, easy, big guy. Hold on.
They're approximately 50 feet tall, wearing their
birthday suits. God, look at the size of him.
Did you say your beast is a female? He was trying
to get to the female. She's pregnant. The biggest
hero is back. And he is not happy. King Kong
lives. Boys, here we are. Reunited. Matt and
Ben Cook -Felts. Hello. Good to be here again.
Thank you for joining us, Ben. Good to have you.
Oh, of course. Thank you for asking me on this
auspicious occasion. For long -time listeners
and for new -time listeners, Ben joined us, I
think it really was a couple of years ago at
this point. Yeah. About two and a half years
ago. Two and a half years ago for a Mothra March
Madness double feature. We did Mothra, the first
film, and then Mothra versus Godzilla. Yeah.
Yeah. And I remember... This is me as a producer.
I remember, Ben, you said, if you ever do King
Kong Lives, I'll come back. I filed that away.
And I am. I didn't think you'd actually do it,
but I'm glad that you chose it, and I'm happy
to be here again. I've been waiting for this
moment for two and a half years. Just sitting
at my laptop for two and a half years. This is
all I do with my life now. Anyways, Matt, how
are you? I'm doing all right. I am a little bit
under the weather. I think maybe because fall
descended upon Minnesota very, very suddenly.
So yeah, I'm a little raspy today, but I'm good.
I'm excited to talk about King Kong Lives. How
are you doing? I'm good. I'm good. You know,
week two into the new school year. Fall is officially
here now that the school year started for you.
I can only assume that you're going to watch
King Kong Lives with your students sometime this
semester. Only if they do really, really well
at their midterms or something. Yeah. More very
poorly, maybe. Ben, how have you been in the
time since Mothra March Madness? Boy, well, it
started 2023. I've been good, honestly. I can't
really complain. I mean, there's a lot of things
to complain about, but in general, my life is
pretty good right now. So, yeah. Yeah, it is
beautiful weather. I'm not complaining about
this fall weather at all. No. And you have a
little one, right? I do. I have a first grader
now. Wow. And yeah, time flies, as I'm sure you'll
soon discover, or maybe you're already discovering.
But yeah, no, he's a precocious little kid. He
loves going to school. He takes the school like
a duck to water. It's the strangest thing because
I hated going to school, especially at that age,
but he just loves it. So, you know, I'm not going
to complain. That's wonderful. Do you show him
movies? Does he watch these, you know, monster
movies or horror movies? You know, I haven't,
it's funny. I've been trying to figure out the
right movie to introduce him to. I know that
the next Godzilla and Kong is coming out next
spring. So my goal is to get him acclimated.
So maybe he and I can go see that together because
I have a feeling it's going to be right, you
know, right for his age group. He knows about
Godzilla. He has a few Godzilla action figures
and, you know, he's really into that stuff. But
I still haven't actually, you know. what's the
word, taken the plunge and gotten him exposed
to an actual Godzilla movie or a kaiju film just
yet. Yeah, it'll happen. I mean, not that it's
happened with my little one, but she's like too
young to be exposed to that much screen time.
But yeah, I have some Godzilla toys that she's
already taken to and it just happens naturally.
Yeah, I did a few years ago, long before he was
old enough to understand what it was, I got him
a Godzilla piggy bank. And we just got it out
a couple of weeks ago and it's great. Like it's,
it's a classic roars and some snippets of the
classic music and you put the quarter at the
top and the thing lights up and Godzilla's head
pops out and then just like snatches the coin
and brings it in. And he loves that. So. Wow.
Head in the right direction. Yeah. I want that.
Yeah, Matt, I don't know. King Kong lives though.
Might be a little out there for, for. Young folks.
But I don't know. We'll get to our personal histories
in a little bit. And before we get to that, we'll
cover some nuts and bolts here. I just want to
thank you all out there for listening, for rating
and reviewing, leaving your positive reviews
and feedback for this show. Wherever you listen,
we find them. and we feature them, and we just
thank you for that. You can leave us comments
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underscore kaiju underscore podcast. If you even
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King Kong Lives, or if you want a Godzilla piggy
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.com, for more reviews and special content. And
special shout -out to our patrons, Jason, Beastruel,
Crispy, Sean, our anonymous patron, and Peggy.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for your support.
All right. We're going to move right on into
this month in monster movie history. It's September.
It's like full -on September. Halloween Eve,
spooky season Eve, some say. You guys want to
shout out a particular movie that catches your
eye? The first thing that struck me was Slumber
Party Massacre 3. I've actually seen that movie.
Several of these movies I'm not familiar with,
but I have seen that one for better or worse.
That's a pretty campy one. I really like the
first Slumber Party Massacre, but I've never
seen the sequels. Do they hold up, would you
say? i don't think so i i personally the the
first one has some like it's got some grit to
it but the other two are just a little bit more
it's just it's it's kind of a sort of a low rent
freddy krueger thing where like you're firmly
aware who the killer is and they're just going
around offing campers you know summer camp people
yeah limited replay value on those maybe yeah
yeah Maybe I'll shout out, you know, I mentioned
one in our last episode that's on this list,
so I'll go in a different direction. It's a classic,
but I'll shout out the original The Blob from
1958. Just a great theme song to that one. Really
good early performance from Steve McQueen, credited
as Stephen McQueen in the cast list. But yeah,
fun movie. The part, I mean, again, it's classic,
but the part where the blob seeps into the movie
theater at the end to the projection booth, amazing.
It's one of the best moments in monster movie
history. Yeah, you took the one I was going to
shout out, but I'll highlight. I'll go old school.
1923, The Hunchback of Notre Dame with Lon Ching.
Yeah. And that ties in in a couple episodes.
Me and Matt are going to talk about Lon Chaney's
Phantom of the Opera, which is celebrating its
100th anniversary. And for all you Twin Cities
folks, or if anyone's willing to travel, there's
an organization like an orchestra group that
plays live accompaniment to old silent films.
And they're having a show on Halloween here in
Minneapolis. I don't know if I can go, but I
would love to see the Phantom of the Opera on
the big screen with a live accompaniment. That's
a bucket. That would be a lot of fun. Yeah. Amazing.
I'm glad that we're bringing some silent movies
or at least one silent movie to the podcast.
I've been meaning to do that recently, so that'll
be fun. Yeah, I'll look forward to that. And
coming up for much, much newer movies, there's
a movie that's been catching my eye called Good
Boy. Have you guys... Seen anything about this?
No. It involves a dog, a good boy, and a haunted
house. Okay, so it's a supernatural horror film.
It follows a haunted house from the perspective
of a dog. Interesting. Yeah, it's a Shudder distribution
film. But I don't know. It looks fun. Cool. Yeah.
I'm intrigued. Yeah. I like shutter. They do
good work. Yeah. I was thinking. Yeah. Anyways,
good boy is going to be released theatrically
October 3rd. And then I have not seen any of
the conjuring films, but I know the quote unquote
last one is being released this month. The conjuring
last rights. I hear, I hear mixed things about
those films. Honestly, I don't. Yeah. Terrible
thing. So I'm intrigued. Yeah. To be fair, I
was chuckling at the idea that, yeah, it's probably
the last one, but. Sure. They'll put an artificial
heart in a beer of Farmiga or something. I don't
know. I don't know. I would be very excited about
that Conjuring movie. If that's the plot of the
next one, I'm in. Oh my gosh. Amazing. I like
the first Conjuring movie. I feel like they kind
of start to go downhill after that. But, you
know, if they take your idea, Vincent, that's
just what they need to resurrect the series.
And then coming up on Camp Kaiju, yes, Phantom
of the Opera. But before then, we have a movie
about a monster mutant bear from 1979. Matt,
this is your pick. Why don't you tell us about
it? Yeah, Prophecy is the name of that one, directed
by John Frankenheimer, I believe. I don't really
know a ton about it, but I have seen one clip
from it, which is the most ridiculous death scene
I have ever seen in a movie. So that has me pretty
excited. And it sounds like a mix of a monster
movie and an eco, save the planet sort of theme.
So it sounds pretty cool. I'm excited. Sweet.
Yeah. I've never seen it either. Yeah. It could
backfire. It could be terrible. But I think even
if it is, it'll be interestingly bad. So we'll
see. That's our bread and butter here. Exactly.
Speaking of such films, what are your personal
histories with King Kong Lives? I'll let you
guys kind of run with this one because I have
like no history with this movie. I recently watched
the remake of King Kong from the 70s with Jessica
Lange, maybe like a year ago, a little bit less
than a year. And I knew that this movie followed
that one up. And that's all I knew about it.
I'd never seen it before. So almost no history
with King Kong lives. Well, I'm kind of with
you, Matt. I had never seen it until this past
weekend. I've owned the DVD for a couple of years.
I picked it up. Shout out to Video Universe.
Rest in peace. But I picked it up then. And I've
been holding on to it for this episode. Yeah,
I had no idea what to expect. Yeah, so. I owe
this movie my entire kaiju fandom. It's amazing
that I started here and decided that I wanted
to keep going. But I saw this movie for the first
time when I was seven years old in 1988. My parents
were watching it. I had no idea who King Kong
was. I thought he was like a Conan the Barbarian
sort of thing. And it turned out to be a big,
giant gorilla. And it was like... Love at first
sight for me, I was just instantly taken by this
character. And after this movie, I just almost
immediately started watching all the other King
Kong movies I could find, like 33 original and
the 76 remake. And that led to King Kong versus
Godzilla, which led to all the other Godzilla
movies that I could find. And, you know, just
an entire childhood of love and also... Strange
ostracization from the other kids in the schoolyard.
But it all started with this movie. So I do owe
it a lot. I also have not seen it in a very long
time. And even when I was a kid, I knew that
it probably wasn't a very good movie. But I was
curious to see if it held up in any way, shape,
or form when I rewatched it. That's great, man.
You talk about... unexpected ways into a fandom
like king kong lives is is that for you i've
always liked king kong i think even as a kid
i i don't remember the first time i ever watched
the 33 version but it was just always there maybe
just in the zeitgeist but i didn't see any of
the sequels until the past 10 years and i think
i've seen them all now with king kong lives no
I have yet to see King Kong Escapes, the Toho
film. Oh. Yeah. That's a fun one. That one's
like, that's total campy, you know, tokusatsu
fun. Yeah. Yeah. With Mechikong. Yep. Mechikong.
Yeah. And Doctor Who. So I've always enjoyed
King Kong as a character. And whether the movie's,
quote, good or bad, if it's got King Kong in
it. I'm probably going to have a good time. I,
I have to agree. I mean, honestly, probably because
it was the first giant monster that I ever saw,
but I mean, King Kong has my heart. Like I love,
obviously I love Godzilla and Gamera and all
those things, but like, yeah, there's just something
about the, the personality of Kong, no matter
what the movie is that I'm just, I don't know.
I have, I feel a deeper connection to King Kong
than I do to any other, any other Kaiju. Nice.
He has my artificial heart. There it is. That's
a big heart. That's pretty impressive, Ben. Oh,
guys, this movie was a trip. 1976. The American
merchant vessel Petrox Explorer has just set
sail from the port of Surabaya in search of oil.
What they find will shock the world. We may be
sailing into the history books. They will catch
a stowaway. I'm landing on the beach of the skull
where we heard the roar of the greatest beast.
They will rescue a beautiful castaway. She's
alive! You know, maybe my luck has changed. And
they will discover an uncharted island that is
the home of the most incredible creature on the
face of the earth. A creature called Kong. Dino
De Laurentiis and Paramount Pictures present
the most exciting original motion picture event
of all time. King Kong. king kong giant gorilla
god of this south seas paradise where sensuous
babies offer themselves in ritual sacrifice to
his brute embrace godzilla has a brain about
this size he is sheer brute force while kong
is a thinking animal his brain is considerably
larger about 10 times the size of this gorilla's
skull being instinctive rivals There is no doubt
that they will attempt to destroy one another.
King Kong versus Godzilla, heading for their
colossal collision, shattering every obstacle
that stands between them in the most fantastic
rampage of annihilation ever recorded on film.
See King Kong stamp Tokyo into the ground, holding
a beautiful girl in his grasp. See Godzilla destroy
an entire army. See King Kong trapped by the
blazing barrier of a billion votes. But nothing,
nobody can stop the great showdown when King
Kong and Godzilla meet to fight for survival
of the fittest. escapes and meets his greatest
foe, the Kong of Steel. A gargantuan duel unmatched
by any battle in history. Thundering 60 -foot
robot Kong of Steel, creation of the evil Dr.
Oom, criminal genius who stops at nothing. Kong,
once again, take... A thousand thrills as King
Kong battles the servant of Mondo Island. Hits
himself against a nation's armament. And plunges
a beautiful girl into a world of terror. So the
director of King Kong Lives is John Guillermin,
who also directed the previous King Kong from
1976. He was known as sort of a temperamental
director, had a lot of arguments with producers
and other crew members. With an eye for detail
for Guillermin, he directed many big -budget
films, including action -adventure films like
The Towering Inferno from 1974, Death on the
Nile from 1978. and some Tarzan movies of the
late 50s and early 60s. I also read earlier today
that he directed Shaft in Africa, which is kind
of a strange project for him. I've never seen
that. I doubt that it's good, but maybe I'm wrong
about that. Yeah, I always knew him as the director
of these two King Kong movies. That's what I
knew him best as. Yeah, he is one of the very
few returning crew members from the 1976 film.
So it's been 10 years. since the 76 King Kong
to its sequel. And we'll talk more about that
in the production history. But yeah, John Gehrman
returns. The screenplay for King Kong Lives is
by Ronald Shusett and Steven Pressfield. I love
making connections in movies. So I just watched
Alien the other night and not for the first time,
but it was a good rewatch. And Shusett co -created
Alien with Dan O 'Bannon. So Shusett's definitely
bringing some pedigree here to King Kong Lives.
He also was the co -writer and producer of Total
Recall in 1990. As for Pressfield, his Wikipedia
really wasn't jumping out at me. Largely a novelist
best known for The Legend of Bagger Vance and
its subsequent film adaptation. But the producing
forces behind King Kong Lives. is Dino De Laurentiis
of the De Laurentiis Entertainment Group, DEG.
And he produced the 76 King Kong, among many,
many other similarly action -themed sort of horror
monster movies. Orca is one we covered on the
podcast. Look into his filmography. He's got
a lot of... I don't even know, like, what's the
best word to describe his aesthetic? Eclectic.
Extremely eclectic. Like, all over the place.
The same year of King Kong Lives, De Laurentiis
produced Blue Velvet, the David Lynch movie.
A very bizarre double feature there. I haven't
done that double feature myself, but I probably
would not recommend it. I don't know what would
happen. Your brain would explode. I can't imagine
that, sorry. No, I just, I respect. A producer
who's willing to swing big on projects outside
of, I don't know, the mainstream, if you will.
And he doesn't always hit the ball. But this
movie, King Kong Lives, was actually produced
by Martha De Laurentiis, who was Martha Shoemaker
at the time. She had joined DEG in 1980 as an
assistant production accountant. She eventually
became DEG's chairman, and she married... Dino
De Laurentiis, old Dino in 1990. Other producing
credits of Martha De Laurentiis is movies like
Red Dragon, Hannibal, the Hannibal TV series,
and U571, which is not a Hannibal Lecter film.
Oh, I remember that movie. Right? That's a good
movie. Yeah. Isn't Jon Bon Jovi in that movie?
I think. I don't know. I think you're right,
actually. I like the Hannibal TV series a lot
more than I expected to. I'm not like in a special
fan of Hannibal Lecter. And I mean, some of those
movies are great, not all of them, but the TV
show is great and like incredibly gory for NBC
network television. It's crazy what they get
away with on that show. And it's very good also.
I've seen it. Yeah, I second that. I couldn't
believe it was network television with its level
of maturity. I was like, whoa, okay. And we're
getting into it. Traumatized, yeah. Matt, why
don't you talk about Alec Mills? Yeah, he was
the cinematographer on this movie. He was also
the director of photography on The Living Daylights
and License to Kill, two James Bond movies with
Timothy Dalton that would come out over the next
couple years. Maybe The Living Daylights was
before King Kong Lives, actually, but right around
the same time. He was also camera operator on
Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Spy Who Loved
Me, Moonraker, For Your Eyes Only, and Octopussy.
So definitely a lot of experience in the James
Bond series, which generally look pretty good,
especially around... this time in the 80s, in
my opinion. Carlo Rambaldi is returning to do
the special effects. He was in the 76 Kong. He
kind of split the duties with Rick Baker. Carlo
Rambaldi was responsible for the giant robot
Kong in that movie in 76. But in the interim
in between, he did a lot of work with Steven
Spielberg. He was responsible for the alien at
the end of Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
And his crowning achievement was he designed
E .T. In 1982. So he had a pretty prestigious
career in robotics and things like that after
the 76 Kong and before King Kong lives. That's
awesome. I forgot that Rick Baker was involved
with 1976. And didn't he play King Kong? He did.
If you ever get a chance to watch videos of him
talking about it. He definitely is a little salty
about his experiences, but it's really fascinating
and fun to listen to him talk about that whole
process. I've seen other things with him. He
does seem like he's a he's a really I find him
really likable to watch in interviews. He seems
kind of down to earth. Yeah. Music by in King
Kong Lives is by John Scott. The film is based
on characters by Marion C. Cooper and Edgar Wallace,
the two originators of King Kong in 1933. How
about the select cast? We have Linda Hamilton
as Dr. Amy Franklin. She is a surgeon and a medical
caretaker of the Kongs. We have King Kong and
we have Lady Kong. And Linda Hamilton, of course,
is best known for her role as Sarah Connors in
the Terminator series, which had just begun in
1984, two years prior with the Terminator and
Children of the Corn. Anybody? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
I haven't seen many Linda Hamilton films, but
Children of the Corn is one I've seen too many
times. I sadly haven't seen that one. That's
been on my list of like maybe bad, but possibly
awesome, like 80s horror movies that I've never
seen. It's a good reminder. I have to watch that.
Yeah, it definitely straddles that fine line.
Okay. More on one side than the other. Yeah.
It's a cult classic, you know? Brian Kerwin plays
Hank Mitchell, the other lead of this film. Hank
Mitchell's like a debonair explorer, maybe an
Indiana Jones type, who finds Lady Kong in the
jungles of Borneo and then sells her to the highest
bidding university. and he ends up falling in
love with Amy Franklin. They fall in love with
each other, and he eventually becomes this hero
archetype. Brian Kerwin, for what it's worth,
had a prolific career in movies and TV. Nothing
really stood out to me the same as Linda Hamilton,
but there you go. John Ashton plays Lieutenant
Colonel Nevitt, a cigar -chomping, hot -headed
type of army leader. Very cookie -cutter. Very
archetypal type of military leader. John Ashton
is in one of my favorite movies. Well, he's in
Beverly Hills Cop, but he's also in a movie called
Midnight Run with Robert De Niro and Charles
Grodin. He plays kind of a bounty hunter guy,
and he's hilarious. Every scene he's in is just
fantastic. I forgot he was in Beverly Hills Cop.
Yeah. I thought he looked familiar. And I forgot
he was in Midnight Run, which I've seen. I like
that movie also. Yeah. Playing King Kong, though,
is not Rick Baker. It is Peter Elliott, who I
learned was a prolific ape suit actor. And he
played apes in two or he played parts in two
movies previously featured on Camp Kaiju. Congo
from 1995. And he played. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah.
And he played a character in The Island of Dr.
Moreau. Wow. Two relics of 90s trash cinema that
we've talked about pretty recently on the podcast.
Peter Elliott. Cool. Low -key, the actor I've
maybe seen the most recently. Without knowing
it, perhaps. Mm -hmm. Yep. Joining him in this
ape duo is George Yasumi as Lady Kong. And then
there is a baby Kong. And Baby Kong is played
by an actor named Benjamin Ketchley. We have
three Kongs in this film by the end. It's kind
of wild that they needed a third person to play
the Baby Kong. Like, why couldn't they have just
had Peter Elliott just be the Baby Kong as well?
Well, her SAG union contract. Oh, I see. Yeah,
you have to cast a new actor for each ape in
your film. that makes sense it's the fine print
there little claws yeah so it's actually a pretty
small cast in terms of you know significant roles
and can i can i shout out one more cast member
sorry he's uh he's a very small role but i don't
know if you guys know the actor mike star He's
in Dumb and Dumber. Yes. Show Millennium. He
often plays like gangsters and like villains
and toughs and henchmen and stuff. He plays just
one of the like cell guards who's like keeping
watch over Lady Kong, I believe. I'm glad you
mentioned him because I didn't know his name.
But during that whole scene, I'm like, that's
the guy from Dumb and Dumber. Like, I'm sure
of it. Yeah, it is indeed. Yep. That's funny.
I mostly know him from the show Millennium, which
I really love. He plays a serial killer on that
show. He's great in that episode. But yeah, similar.
I recognized him and I was like, hey, it's Mike
Starr. This must be one of his earliest roles.
Yeah. Kind of cool. Oh, wow. Yeah. I love those
supporting actors where you're like, oh, I know
that face. Yeah. Okay. So King Kong was... Made
in 1976. Dino De Laurentiis. Jeff Bridges. Jessica
Lange. It was a popular film, but it was not
gangbusters. And it did not do well with critics.
So, like Dino De Laurentiis wanted to do a sequel.
The desire for that was kind of lukewarm. Also,
the legal rights to owning the character were
just so ambiguous. And we, Matt, we talked more
in depth about that with our King Kong 76 episode,
I believe. So yeah, listeners go back and listen
to that one. But, but it was, yeah, it's still
convoluted. Like I'm still not an expert on it,
but I know that like when I go to Universal Studios
in Orlando, they have a King Kong ride, but Universal
doesn't own the film rights. They own the theme
park rights. And then there's different rights
for the novelization rights. And then the cinema
rights because Legendary Warner Brothers has
rights to make these Kong films. But that's somehow
different from what Peter Jackson was doing.
I don't know. It's a jumbled mess. I will never
understand like the... nature of like film rights
and like adaptations and all that. Like, I feel
like you need to be a professional lawyer to
like understand the contract specifics of those
things. You know, I do not get it. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm glad I just write songs. I don't have to
deal with anything else. Yeah. The legal side
seems like a nightmare. Yeah. No. Yes. So it
took 10 years. Lots of scripts were written.
Some ideas that were pitched to, DEG apparently
was an idea for Kong in space. There was an idea
for Kong in Russia. There was an idea where little
kids would just apparently follow Kong around
and it'd be like a kid's film getting into hijinks.
All this is according to... I'm trying to picture
that. Like, whoops! Kong fell out of the treehouse.
What is it? Like Baby's Day Out with King Kong
or something? What would that even be? A travesty.
Yeah. Baby Kong's day out. Baby Kong's day out.
With the Russia concept, I read that the idea
was that King Kong would be used as like a weapon
by the American government. And then he would
be like airdropped into the Soviet Union to like
fight communism in Russia, which. I mean, probably
would have been a terrible movie, but also like
pretty great. I would love to see that movie,
especially if like Kong was like brainwashed
to become a communist and then like used against
the United States. Like somebody please make
that movie. That sounds incredible. That actually
would be really cool. Yeah. Is there like a Russian
kaiju? Because maybe like Kong, he's America's
kaiju, goes fist to fist with his Russian counterpart.
Not that comes to mind. I feel like maybe like,
I don't know, an obscure film series from sometime
in the 20th century. I don't know. Right. I want
to find out. Yeah. Yeah, I would be here for
it. I mean, that was big in the 80s and the Cold
War and suddenly hating on the Soviet Union again.
So that's not what we got, though. And we'll
talk. We'll talk pros and cons of that. If what
we got was better or not. Do you mind if I say
something else I read about why this movie, not
why it took so long, but why it was actually
made when it was, was just prior to the production,
Dino De Laurentiis had purchased the distribution
wing of Embassy Pictures. And that enabled him
for the very first time to produce his own movies
completely on his own without having to negotiate
with studios. And he wanted to... kind of hit
the ground running. And he had this whole slate
of films that he was going to produce. But he
knew that King Kong had been a big enough hit
that even if the sequel did half the amount of
money at the box office, which spoiler alert,
this did not. But even if it had, you know, it
would have been a pretty, it seemed like a pretty
safe bet to kind of herald the new studio that
he was launching and stuff like that. That was
also part of, part of why he decided to do this.
And I thank you. Cause I, that reminds me, he,
I did read, he had had a string of flops leading
up to King Kong lives and yeah, spoiler alert.
He did not break his streak. No, it's just swinging
big strike. What's right. And then apparently
Martha, his wife, took over the company, you
know, and he's like, all right, you can do this
from now on. I'm not striking out here. This
is this is your business now. Here you go, honey.
Yeah. Good luck. I got this. Let's just focus
on Hannibal Lecter, please. Yeah. Yeah. Not a
bad idea. Eventually, De Laurentiis landed on
a script by John Shusett and Steven Pressfield
that. was about bringing King Kong back to life.
Well, okay, so let me back up. One thing, one
sticking point was that De Laurentiis needed
a reason, a believable reason why King Kong would
have survived the fall from the World Trade Center
in King Kong 76. Fair question. How would King
Kong live? Well, Shusett and Pressfield came
up with this idea of an artificial heart. Kong
has been in a coma for 10 years. On a respirator,
Ben is shaking his head, and they put an artificial
heart in Kong. And De Laurentiis said, yes, I
like that. But what he didn't like, which I just
find very strange, De Laurentiis was not sold
on the idea of a female Kong. He thought audiences
wouldn't buy it until, I think it was Pressfield,
said, Dino, he had to have had a mother. To which
Dino De Laurentiis said, by God, you're right.
I never thought of that. There can be a female.
I'm like, Dino, what? Yeah. What planet are you
on? I heard that originally, like in the very
early drafts, it wasn't even that they needed
blood. It was that they were going to do sort
of like when pandas get bored in the zoo, they
might bring a female in to keep them interested.
And it was going to be that. They were going
to revive Kong. And then they weren't, he was
just bored. So they found a female Kong and brought
her in. And I guess it was going to be more like
she was going to be chasing after Brian Kerwin
the entire time. Like she would just keep picking
him up no matter where they were. That kind of
sounds more fun. I don't know. We can do that.
I wouldn't mind seeing that version. Yeah. Cause
the blood transfusion thing seems a little bit
weak in this movie. I don't know if the science
holds up. I gotta say. That's the part that we're
not sold on, yeah. Yeah, I'm buying everything
else, but not that. Oh, yeah. Well, Ben, that's
interesting because I have heard other conversations
about this movie where the viewer or the critic
missed the traditional Kong lusting after a human
element that's not in this movie. Because instead,
Kong finds a mate more of his style, more of
his species. Something more appropriate, you'd
even say. But yet, do we miss something as a
Kong film without that aspect? There's a little
bit of that with Lady Kong and Mitch. Towards
the beginning, like a couple jokes about that,
but it's never really... I think they're mostly
jokes. I don't think it's ever treated very seriously.
Like most things in this movie. Yeah. I don't
mind it personally. I like the change of pace.
Yeah, I think, you know, Credit where credit's
due, they did take the story in a completely
different direction. And I think that's, I think
that's, you know, I don't know the word I'm laudable.
I mean, I think it's good that they tried something
different for sure. It does sort of, I don't
know. I mean, I can't tell if it's the specific
story or if it's just this movie, but a lot of
Kong's character has changed in this one. Like
there doesn't seem to be quite as much. and he's
just sort of, you know, a lovesick gorilla most
of the time. Yeah, I know what you mean. Because
like even in King Kong versus Godzilla, like
I'm thinking about other Kong movies where he
doesn't climb a big building with a woman in
his grips. But there's something about King Kong
Lives, like could this be, is this a King Kong
movie or could this just be any other ape movie?
You know, like what about Kong makes a Kong movie?
Right. Yeah. It kind of unexpectedly becomes
a movie about like family and companionship,
you know, which is pretty sweet. I mean, we kind
of see that in the Linda Hamilton and the Brian
Kirwan character too. Like they develop a relationship
at the same time. So it's kind of a romance.
And yeah, I mean, I don't mind that, but it is
like very much against like the King Kong lore.
So I could imagine. fans of the original or even
the 1976 remake probably not enjoying that new
direction very much. Yeah, there just really
isn't anything remotely terrifying about this
movie. And that's the big thing. Like even in
the 76 King Kong, like he's rampaging through
New York at one point and he's legitimately killing
people. Like he's still a huge beast and you
get that sense of like giant monster on the loose
and that makes it kind of fun. And yeah. This
is not a scary movie. There's no terror in this.
This is a love story starring giant apes. Yeah.
I will counter that, though, when Kong literally
snaps a man in half and you see all the violence.
And then he eats a man. That's true. I couldn't
believe that when that happened. But those parts
stick out so brutally because they're outliers.
Because I think you're right. Overall, the movie...
lacks that kind of horror but when it happens
i was like holy mother of god what yeah yeah
i i will i i'm sure we're going to get into this
but there's a lot of tonal inconsistency in this
movie we're like yeah it's generally yeah we'll
we'll get there yeah so anyways filming started
in april 1986 in tennessee In the Pigeon Forge
area, which is in the mountains, but then also
in North Carolina, where I believe the De Laurentiis
Entertainment Group had its studios in North
Carolina. The film was released in December 1986.
As we said, it was a big old flop. Speaking of
the Soviet Union again, I read that it was the
highest grossing foreign film in the USSR, which
is... I mean, I guess some foreign film had to
be. Yeah. But I guess it was King Kong Lives.
That's strange. According to, I want to reference
my book Kaiju Unleashed by Sean Pryor, friend
of the pod. He has one page on King Kong Lives.
I just want to cite his numbers on box office.
The film earned $4 million on an $18 million
budget. according to Sean Pryor. That is not
good. That's not a hit. No. No. They had like
a huge marketing budget too, right? I don't remember
the exact numbers, but I thought it was like
11 million. No, that seems like too much. But
like they marketed the hell out of this movie
and it did not work out in the end. No, well,
and they marketed it so strangely. Like, I don't
know if you've ever seen the posters, but it's
like. America's hero is back and he's not happy.
And Kong's not America's hero, and that has nothing
to do with the movie. See? That's that Cold War
stuff. Yeah. But it doesn't play. Maybe that's
why it played in the Soviet Union. Like, this
is America's biggest... Oh, we are winning. Yeah.
I think Ivan Drago is Russia's kaiju. Ooh. A
giant Ivan Drago versus King Kong. Who wins?
That means we can bring Rocky III or whichever
one it is to the podcast. Ah, there you go. Number
four. Rocky IV. Okay. Sorry. Not a Rocky podcast.
But I love those movies. Yeah. So King Kong Lives
is a failure coupled with another De La Renta
flop at the time called Taipan. Ended up bankrupting
the company. And the company wouldn't last much
longer. DEG was bought out in 1989. Roger Ebert
and George Siskel have a fun little anecdote
about this. Yeah, the De Laurentiis group sent
a notice to Roger Ebert and George, or Gene Siskel,
that they could not play snippets of King Kong
Lives on their show unless they had positive
things to say about it. And the critics couldn't
find anything good to say about it. And also
they couldn't find like any good clips from the
movie to like play on their show. I read that
that wasn't just Siskel and Ebert. That was like
all critics in the United States. Like in order
to play scenes from the movie, they had to say
that they had to give it a positive review. And
from what I read, no critics agreed to do that.
Like, no, we cannot do that. That's against our
professional integrity. That's crazy. Because
there are maybe a couple individual scenes that
might be kind of fun. I'm glad that nobody, like,
you know, was coerced into giving it a positive
review. But there are maybe a couple scenes that
are fun in this movie. Yeah, it's certainly,
I don't even know. No, I think it is the weakest
King Kong movie I've ever seen. But I mean, like,
yeah, it's not the worst movie of 1986 or anything
like that. It's not unwatchable. But Rotten Tomatoes,
for what it's worth, it has an 8%. Which, again,
that's not good. That's pretty low. I was wondering,
you know, on the theme of like the tail end of
the Cold War, did the movie Red Dawn come out
in 1986? Because that one's pretty bad. That
was around that time. Oh, it's 1984. Never mind.
I take it back. Top Gun was the highest grossing
film. Crocodile Dundee, Platoon. Yeah. So, you
know, there's some classics there. Howard the
Duck came out in 1986, a notoriously bad movie.
Did it? No. Back to School was the sixth highest
grossing film of the year. Good for Missing the
Dangerfield. Under the Cherry Moon with Prince
also came out that year, but that movie kind
of rocks. I know it has a bad reputation, but
it's great. I love it. I have not seen that one.
Oh, you're missing out. I love it. Notorious
bomb that holds up pretty well, I would say.
Cool. Well, good. On that note, let's head into
our sponsor break. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by
Zach Linder and the Zach Pack, powered by Coldwell
Banker Realty. Your source for real estate, home
rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients
and residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach
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Zach Pack on social media and contact the Zach
Pack for investment opportunities. Link in the
show notes. Matt. Anything in Mania's mailbox?
Uh, actually, yeah. We do have a little note
here from Kaiju Nick. Thank you for writing in,
Kaiju Nick. He says, Thank you, Kaiju Nick. Always
a pleasure to see Mr. Laurie unexpectedly. And
to see him on Camp Kaiju as well, or hear him
anyway. Yeah, honestly, Kaiju Nick, Mr. Laurie's
very happy about that email. I had to show him
what email is, but once he got the hang of it,
he loved it. I'm sure he'll have something to
say about that. Did he even remember acting in
that movie, 20 ,000 Leagues Under the Sea? Like,
oh, this doesn't ring a bell. I say, I don't
remember him being in 20 ,000 Lakes Under the
Sea. He plays Kirk Douglas's little buddy. He's
like right -hand man. Oh, really? Yeah. Laurie's
pretty understated in the role. I mean, it's
a really bombastic film, and Kirk Douglas just
consumes screen presence. But Laurie's there,
solid, doing his job. Yeah. Always likable. I'll
pass that on to Mr. Lurie. And he's going to
talk about a little film from 1944 called Voodoo
Man. It stars John Carradine, Bela Lugosi, and
George Zuko. And this movie, I love reading these
letterbox synopses. So apparently the tagline
for Voodoo Man is his lust for voodooism spells
D -O -O -M. Yeah, the movie is about a bad doctor
and his helpers who lure girls to his lab for
brain work to help his wife. What does brain
work mean? What does any of that mean? Right.
I don't know. To help his wife. Help his wife
with what? Good question. I'm a little scared.
And how does voodoo fit into all that as well?
And is it his lust that spells doom? Like, how
does that work? I guess we'll have to listen
and find out. Welcome to the Poverty Row Studios
on the other side of Hollywood, where the stars
were dimmer and the red carpets dripped with
blood. Together we will watch the best of the
worst. Movies known for their limited budgets,
outlandish concepts, and questionable performances,
but with enough haunted houses, zombies, ape
men, and devil bats to keep you up at night.
This is the Poverty Row Picture Show, and I dare
you to sleep through these nightmares. I am Peter
Lorre, and yes, I was in 20 ,000 Leagues Under
the Sea. And, and, the Nautilus was not the only
dreamboat in the production. Kirk Douglas, am
I right? I'll swear by his tattoo. Yes, well,
that's more than I can say for Matthew Cole Levine,
leaving me for dead in this rotten apartment.
Well, before I digress... Thank you, Kaiju Nick,
for your electronic correspondence. And thank
you, Peter Laurie, for willingly giving me the
microphone for this segment. Wait, what? Is that
you, Bela? Bela Lugosi? Well, Matthew just let
anyone in these days. I have ways of getting
through locked doors. And considering tonight's
review is about my 1944 film, Voodoo Man, I'm
afraid I must do the honors. Fine by me, pal.
I mean, I still need to pack. I need to comb
my hair. Find a new place to hang my hat. Listeners,
I will return next week for all new thrills when
we discuss a non -Belé Lugosi movie called...
The Monster Maker. And I will hang about and
tell you all what the Voodoo Man's lust is all
about. Yeah, good luck with all that. Children
of the podcast, I bid you welcome. Voodoo Man
marks my eighth and final picture with Monogram
Studios. You have seen me yuck it up with yeast
side kids. You have seen me play gangsters and
mad scientists. You have seen me wrestle zombies
and devil bats and play the best ape man this
side of the jungle. And now, to end my contract
with Monogram, I don a necromancer's robe as
John Carradine and George Zuko abduct young women
from my nefarious plan to transfer their life
forces into the corpse of my beautiful bride.
Now Voodoo Man has been called a better film
than most I made in the 1940s. Indeed, after
my time with Monogram, the choice roles were
hard to come by. Even Universal stopped calling.
Oh sure, there was Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein
in 1948, but that was about it until the Ed Wood
pictures and my own slow descent into the fangs
of death in 1956. So I thank you, and Peter Lorre,
for being kind to me on the Poverty Row Picture
Show. Even if the movies themselves were less
than praiseworthy, I did what I could with what
I had. But always better to reign in hell than
serve in heaven. And so, I bid you adieu, and
until we meet again, remember, I was once in
a movie called Bela Lugosi Meets a Brooklyn Gorilla.
So stupid. I am your master. I have transformed
you into a giant of great strength, and you must
obey me. This innocent -looking greenhouse is
the secret workshop of Dr. Decker. These unusual
foliages are insectivorous and carnivorous, man
-devouring plants, and contain a rare chemical
of growth of as yet unknown powers. Conga, towering,
terrorizing threat to civilization. Conga, ever
-growing man -made beast of immeasurable strength.
He said, let me down. Help! Help! Fantastic.
There's a huge monster gorilla that's constantly
growing to outlandish proportions, loosing the
streets. Well, let's get back to King Kong Lives,
shall we? Someone's got some lust and it's spelled
K -O -N -G. There are. That should have been
the tagline on the poster. I admittedly, guys,
I think this movie is pretty light on themes
because I wrote that militarism. I think that's
there. I don't think the movie is trying to explore
that at all. I just found it like part and parcel
of 1980s action movies. Like they all seem to
have the same cigar chomping characters in the
military going rogue and loose cannons and all
that kind of stuff. I agree. I was thinking about
this today. I don't think I'm not going to give
the writers credit because I don't think this
is what they were like. I don't think that they
were thinking this much into it. But Colonel
Nevitt specifically does, you know, within the
context of the time that it was made, this is
10 years. and change after the end of the Vietnam
War. And I think it just speaks more towards,
it's like a copy of what you saw a lot in the
80s, which was the soldier who had a lot of questions
about, you know, their career, like, why were
they involved in this war? Were they on the right
side? It didn't end the way that they wanted
it to. And they're looking for some sort of glory
to, you know, really, like, reclaim. And so...
Nevitt kind of falls into that where it's like,
ha ha, we have the enemy. It's the apes. Let's
get them, boys. And in a way, there's those other
like his second in command seems pretty conflicted
about Nevitt's just, you know, ignoring the higher
ups and going going rogue. He doesn't seem to
be quite as into it. And he's a little bit younger.
So, you know, maybe there is some generational
pull. But again, that's assigning a little bit
too much to. to a movie of this nature yeah i
don't know like how deep that theme is but i
agree that it's there and it is like prevalent
in a lot of 80s movies i think and maybe we see
that in the hunters who like apprehend king kong
which seems unlikely i don't think those seemingly
not very intelligent guys would be able to do
that but but you know those guys are also a little
bit like gun happy trigger happy and then they're
the ones that are killed in the most brutal way
imaginable in the movie. So, yeah, there's, you
know, between, like, the military guys and those
guys, I think that theme is there for sure, as
thin as it might be. And there's one of those
hunters who actually says, hey, let's not tease
King Kong. Like, let's try to treat him with
a little respect, maybe to parallel that military
character. I think talking about it now, I was
reminded of First Blood. Watching King Kong lives
like Kong's running through the mountains and
like, yeah, a lot of that just screamed first
blood to me, too. Yeah. Which dives into similar
themes, obviously. Yeah. And then I was kind
of surprised that Mitch is like the complete
opposite of that, you know, like I feel like
maybe early on in the movie when he's on the
phone with like Dr. Franklin and some of the
other like. philanthropist donors or whatever.
Maybe we think that he's going to be this materialistic,
money -grubbing Indiana Jones character. That's
even a line of dialogue at one point in the movie,
paraphrasing a little bit. But then he almost
immediately turns into this nice guy who wants
to save and rescue both Lady Kong and King Kong.
So, you know, I thought it was somewhat surprising.
maybe not especially interesting though, that
like he's, he's not the sort of like, you know,
militaristic, like macho guy that we might expect.
He has kind of a soft, soft heart, you know?
Yeah, I agree. Yeah. And there's a, this relates
to my second point, like the Amy Franklin character.
Yeah. She has a lot of agency in this film, especially
compared to other female leads and other King
Kong movies. And, in her relationship with Hank
Mitchell, like they end up making love one night,
but it's like very consensual. Even like the
male character asks her, are you sure? And she's
like, yeah, we're primates. We're primates too.
We're primates too. I liked it. I thought it
was very sweet and, but also believable. It was
like wholesome. Yeah. Yeah. And, and going back
to what you were saying, Matt, I think. That
is one reason that they wrote Mitch the way that
they did, probably, is because it had to be believable
that she would fall for him. And it is very refreshing,
I think, especially in the 1980s, to see a strong
female character who is kind of calling the shots
in that relationship right from the start. I
mean, she's the one that, you know... drives
him off the road and is like, you're coming with
me, you know, to go search for the Kongs and
stuff like that. Like it's, I don't know. I like
that. And, and even at the right at the beginning,
when they, when they bring lady Kong in and Mitch
seems very concerned about the apes wellbeing,
you can, there's a look that she gives and where
it's like that Linda Hamilton that Amy gives
that, you know, it seems to signal like, okay,
he's, he's. he's not all bad you know like they
do a good job at establishing that relationship
yeah i think so too this is one of the things
i liked about the movie and i'm okay just diving
into that a little bit i just as a whole i really
enjoyed linda hamilton and brian kerwin's chemistry
i thought they they acted well together they
were believable together and i think they they
carry a lot of the movie I think Brian Kerwin
maybe on his own is a little bit, I don't know
if he has like leading man charisma, but like
the two of them together, they do have nice chemistry
together. I think as a tandem, they do carry
the movie pretty well. Oh yeah, he's definitely,
he's not Harrison Ford, right? But he is what
he is. And he's like, he's just a nice guy. He's
a good boy who ended up with Linda Hamilton.
Just a badass surgeon, heart surgeon. Like, right.
She's way out of his league, but good for him.
Yeah. Any other themes you guys want to add?
It's, it's pro science, pro scientific advancements.
I mean, that's pretty cool. Like the story, I
guess the, not that anyone's ever constructed
a gigantic. ape heart. But I mean, it did have
some roots in reality that in 1982, they had
successfully, some scientists, I don't remember
who, but had successfully developed an artificial
heart. And, you know, it is kind of nice that
prior to the apes going rogue and the army going
rogue, you know, there does seem to be like a
lot of excitement in the general public for,
you know, this scientific achievement. Like,
that's kind of nice to see. I was thinking about
that real life science and it made me realize
that how much of our science now was science
fiction at one point. Sure. That's just like
a big question that I was like, Oh wow. Cause
like these days there's organs transplants related
to pigs and like pig kidneys getting into people
and everything with, I mean literally cloning
animals and stem cells and you know, like not
too long ago. Any of that was science fiction.
And I guess that would be like, you know, polar
opposite to the military in this movie. Like
you have military on one side and then scientific
interests on the other. And I guess maybe you
have like money in the middle, you know, like
some of the donors and philanthropists are like,
maybe don't seem like great people, but they're
kind of like caught in the middle a little bit,
you know? Yeah. I mean, even some of the scientists
are like, they talk about that, like how, you
know, you don't want another university to have
the only living giant ape and stuff like that.
True. Yeah. I kind of like alluded to this before,
but just like, you know, I talked about like
family and like procreation a little bit. I didn't
really bring that up before, but like we do have
baby Kong at the end of the movie and it's kind
of just like life finds a way, which is sort
of the theme of Jurassic park a little bit too.
Not to put that at the same level of, of King
Kong lives or vice versa, I should say, but you
know, kind of like an. I don't know, sort of
an optimistic theme. Like as unlikely as it is
that there would be a Lady Kong and she's brought
to the United States and then she and Kong would
procreate, even though they're both like 50 feet
tall and the military is looking for them like
at the same time, still life finds a way. Like
I was like, oh, it's kind of like a not so good
version of Jurassic Park in a way. In that one
tiny thematic way. Yeah. If there had been a
third movie. You know, it like it left the ending
open to another sequel. Yeah. Kong, Lady Kong
or Mama Kong at that point. I like Mama Kong.
That's Mama Kong. Yeah. It also reminded me of
Son of Godzilla a little bit, which is definitely
not my favorite Godzilla movie, but you know.
Seeing Godzilla and his or, yeah, it's his, I
think, child in that movie is like, oh, this
is kind of ridiculous, but funny and sweet at
the same time. It's a shame we never got to see
Kong live long enough to judge his parenting
techniques the way we can with Godzilla. Yeah.
It's certainly possible that he survived at the
end if he came back for this movie. Maybe he
could have come back in another one. I mean.
Okay, I've been sort of like, I was shaking my
head earlier. If the guy can survive a fall off
the World Trade Center, his body riddled with
bullets, and stay in a coma for 10 years, he
can totally survive getting shot up outside a
barn by considerably less soldiers. Yeah, there's,
no, of course he could totally have pulled through.
Yeah, yeah, I think he did. I want to believe.
But his big heart just couldn't take it anymore.
It's heartbroken. Let's talk about the good,
the bad, and the ugly. The campy. Good, the bad,
and the campy. With King Kong Lives. What do
I have on my notes here? Okay, so first of all,
the movie King Kong Lives opens up with a flashback
to Jeff Bridges, Jessica Lange, on the top of
the World Trade Center from King Kong 76. I didn't
mind that. It just reminded me how bloody and
violent the end of that movie was with the helicopters,
which is the ending of this movie is also as
violent or bloody. I love the first appearance
of Lady Kong. And it's really funny because I
was taking notes and I didn't know how else to
refer to this female Kong, but as Lady Kong in
my notes. Yeah. And then the characters literally
referred to her as Lady Kong. I was like, oh,
it's not just me. Okay. That's pretty campy.
Yeah. A lot of my good notes are also campy notes.
I just found this movie just a camp fest. The
whole beginning in the surgery, open heart surgery
on King Kong. And they have giant prop medical
instruments. It's like a huge, like practically
a table saw at one point that they're just sticking
in there. Yeah. The enormous like suction tubes.
I love those. It seemed like a bad 50s B movie.
Like if it was in black and white, it just would
have been a parody of itself. But it was taken
so seriously and I loved it. I loved the whole
opening because I've never seen. anything in
a movie like that open heart surgery on a giant
gorilla yeah and then they bring in the giant
mechanical heart and it falls off its chain at
one point yeah honestly the most suspenseful
part of the movie i was on the edge of my seat
yeah is it gonna work that's it just falls and
falls to the floor and that's the end of the
movie right there But, oops, power to the filmmakers.
Five minutes in, I thought this movie was over
because I was like, I don't know. Is Kong going
to live? Well, it's in the title. I mean, if
you didn't know the title. I didn't know. If
you don't know the title, how long is he going
to live? It was released as King Kong 2 in foreign
markets. It was, yeah. Maybe folks in Russia
just didn't know if he was going to live or not.
They were like, well, it's King Kong 2. I don't
know what that means. I don't think the visual
effects are terrible. I think they're obvious,
like when there's a blue screen effect. Yeah.
But I don't think it's distractingly bad. Like,
again, I think it fits within that campy world
where it's like, oh, you can see the strings
in a Godzilla movie, but that's okay. Like, that's
what we're here for. And what's up? Oh, I think
it's certainly, you know, comparable to. The
Return of Godzilla, which came out in 1984, I
would say that those special effects are... I
don't know, actually. I think maybe I like the
Return of Godzilla a little bit more, but they're
certainly on par for the time. Yeah. Yeah, it's
like mid-'80s. We're not quite to CGI yet, but
we're almost there, and just seeing where all
the visual effects land can be hit and miss sometimes.
But I do like the model work. I like the suit
work in this film. I appreciated that the apes
actually walk on their knuckles in this movie
as opposed to just being upright. Yeah, good
ape acting. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. I like when we
first meet Lady Kong in Borneo, I think it is.
Hank is like, you know, he's kind of like, he
lays down to sleep and then he realizes that
he's basically lying on Lady Kong. And then like
this enormous like ape hand kind of like chases
him around the jungle a little bit. And like,
I actually really liked the like energy and like
the speed and the movement of that scene and
like the big robotic ape arm or whatever, an
ape hand. Like I thought that was pretty well
done. And like a good introduction to that character,
you know? I think so too. Yeah, that was fun.
Yeah. Yeah. I think overall, lady kong i think
looks better than king kong in this movie like
i think lady kong look you know is it's a really
good costume and yeah i really enjoyed it i have
to give a shout out honestly and this is this
is probably where seven -year -old me comes back
to things i really liked the final scene when
when Kong's lying there and he's dying and his
son. And like, I find that I won't lie. I find
that very touching. Like when the kid gets in
his hand and he's really excited and happy and
he feels the love and then Kong dies, like that's
actually really, it was really sad. And for better
or worse, it made me think about being a father.
And, you know, I have this photograph of the
first time I ever held my kid. Like our doula
just took a picture when it happened and I treasure
that photo. And it's like, just sort of like
fusing my own experiences on this, you know,
giant monkey and his little teeny tiny monkey.
But like it really, it, that, that hit me. I
won't lie. I think it is a, the ending is a downer
and it's not what we would get today. If this
movie was made today, everything has to be a
happy ending. So I do also appreciate a more
poignant ending. Yeah. Yeah. It's touching and
it's bittersweet, I think, because like, you
know, Lady Kong and her son are back in Borneo
and seem to be enjoying this kind of idyllic
existence. But of course, King Kong is not there
to enjoy it with them. So I like the bittersweet
nature of it. I agree with both of you. Yeah.
The only other thing I have to give a bit of
a shout out to is I liked the music. I don't
necessarily think it fits the movie, honestly,
but I really like. The music, I think, is really
pretty. The main theme is very lovely. And I
like the theme for the military. I think it's
good. I don't think it's as good as John Barry's
score for the last one. But I do like the music.
So I had to give that props. For those listening,
Ben Cook -Felts is a musician, professional musician,
and provides Armenia's mailbox theme music. Yeah.
Well, so yeah. I don't know what that says. Now
that you know that I really enjoy this music,
you be the judge if you want to check out my
stuff. But, you know. The Minions mailbox music
is great. I love it. Oh, there you go. We thank
you, Ben. Of course. Yeah. I was just going to
add one more thing to the good category. I agree
with everything both of you guys said. And I
actually do, just to reiterate what... I'm very
sorry. I can't remember if it was Vincent or
Ben who said this, but whoever was talking about
just like the monkey suits, the ape suits. I
think Rumbaldi does pretty good work in this
movie. And I like the visual effects for the
most part, even if they are kind of obvious at
times. But the new thing I was going to add is
that I think there's like a lot of visual energy
and excitement and imagination in some of the
scenes. Maybe not in certain scenes, but like,
you know, early on over the opening credits,
we have this like very long crane shot that's
going through this big warehouse. King Kong is
like strapped to a table basically. And it's
like a very long shot. It's not especially like,
you know, the camera sort of just like is on
a crane and it tracks back and it's not like
especially like acrobatic, but it looks good.
And like, there's an attempt at like visual uniqueness
there. So I appreciated that. And then in the
scene where Lady Kong arrives at the airport
and like all these reporters are there, it's
like a really. jam -packed scene there's a lot
going on and the camera's flying all over the
place I think it's like on a truck or something
and it's like circling around this huge group
of people and I was like oh this is actually
like visually a very like exhilarating scene
there's a lot going on and I feel like it's it's
pretty well shot credit to the cinematographer
who maybe his work on the James Bond movies helped
with that a little bit but I think you know there
are certain scenes where there is a lot of visual
excitement in the movie and I appreciated that
Yeah, I think it's easy to forget that because
this is kind of a cheesy 80s monster movie that
a lot of the crew that worked on this were very
competent and had a lot of, you know, had pretty
strong pedigree. Oh, yeah. This was an A movie,
100%, despite its maybe B movie sensibilities.
They put effort into this. And I think it shows.
I don't think this movie's as bad as people...
As the masses say it is. Just putting that out
there. Let's talk about the bad things. I think
there are things that don't work. Again, I'm
just speaking for myself, though. I just find
this movie, even when it is bad, it's more campy
and still enjoyable. So I actually kind of had
to struggle with like, okay, but what really
doesn't work for me? I think, thinking hard,
I think... The movie's a little long at points,
like a little long in the tooth. I think that
runtime's an hour 40 minutes or something. And
a lot of it does fly by. It's got a lot of action.
But some scenes I just felt like ran a little
too long. The stuff with the redneck hunters
felt a little dissonant to me. I was like, oh,
okay, this is fine. But again, this scene is
running too long for me. these guys are very
obnoxious i definitely want to see them die but
they're they're a lot right now for me it had
kind of a jaws ripoff vibe to me too i just wanted
to interject that sorry oh yeah no i picked that
up yeah yeah i wish lady kong had more to do
like ultimately she was a love interest but if
we're talking about female agency we can talk
about female ape agency right and I just like
what's a version of this movie where she is a
fighter as much as Kong. Like, I'd like to see
that version, too. I will say I maybe again,
it's because of my history that I give this movie
less of a personally, I think I give it a little
less of a past. And maybe I would if I was just
seeing it for the first time. I feel like unlike
some other kaiju movies or unlike even something
like. Kong Skull Island, which to me is insane,
doesn't make any sense, but it's a lot of fun.
I didn't quite get that like, personally, I didn't
quite get that sense of fun with this movie.
I think part of it is that the pedigree was so
strong that it felt like the movie that they
were making didn't always jibe with the script
and the tone of what was written. So to me, I
mean, it's a fascinating movie. And I will say
that like, it's definitely, you know, I think
worth watching just because it's like, you will
never see a movie like this. And it's, it's remarkable
that it got made, but there are definitely, there
are definitely a lot of things that, yeah, it
just, I don't know, especially in the middle
when, when Kong's just walking around in the,
in the swamps eating gators, like it didn't really
hold my interest the way that I wished it, it
had. And there are, it's just, you know, you
do have to just take a real big swallow and go
along with the plot of this, you know, to even
accept that it all starts with him needing a
blood transfusion and go from there. Like, there
are so many questions that are just not answered.
I'd agree with that, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I
also agree. I think there are a lot of wasted
opportunities in this movie. You know, like how
how does Hank? apprehend lady Kong and bring
her back to the United States. Like we don't
see any of that. And there's sort of a joke about
it when Hank returns to the U S and he's like,
Oh, I left a trail of bananas, which is kind
of funny, but it's like, Oh, but I actually want
to know how you did this. Like, right. That could
have been a great scene. And like, even with
the open heart surgery scene, like it's all off
screen for the most part, we do see the, the
huge props and that's amusing, but like, you
know, we could have had some like gnarly special
effects of like enormous ape ventricles and like,
and like blood and everything. I know it's 2013,
but that would have been pretty cool. I would
have liked to see that. And like we were saying
before, like if Lady Kong had been a little bit
more of a fighter and like had more of a role
to play towards the end, instead of being kind
of just primate in distress, damsel in distress
or whatever, like that would have been cool to
see. So yeah, I mean, I think it's like a movie
of wasted opportunities in certain scenes. Ben,
you mentioned this before, but I think the tone
is a little bit inconsistent at times. Yeah.
we have the brutal killing of those redneck hunter
guys, but then we also have some like wacky comedy
of like King Kong being hit in the head with
a golf ball and stuff. It's like, you know, the
handling of tone could be a little bit sharper
in this movie. And and like speaking of that
stuff where like he's King Kong is like wandering
around eating gators getting hit by a golf ball.
It's like, oh, that could have been actually
kind of a fun like homage to like Godzilla if
he had like actually attacked a city. I know
that's like, you know, standby stuff and like
a kaiju movie, but it would have been cool and
I would like to see that. But yeah. I don't know.
That's pretty much all I have. And I think like
this movie is really silly and ridiculous, but,
but that's like the campy charm of it. So it's
hard to put that totally in the bad category,
you know? Yeah. I, if I could say one more thing
I do, this is sort of in the, in the plot thing.
And it, it, it ate at me when I watched it again,
just, I wish that we had some idea of what Colonel
Nevis end game was like, he's holding lady Kong,
but to what end the government. wants to get
rid of her. Everyone is saying, let's just deal
with this and get this ape. You know, why is
he holding on? What, what is he planning to do?
You know, I just, I wish we'd known a little
more about that. Yeah. I agree with his lack
of motivations. At one point he says, you know,
his men can't train because they have to watch
the apes. I'm like, was that your whole motivation?
Like there's nothing really like. really compelling
him to stand in the way of, of scientific progress.
Like he's just there. He doesn't really have
a compelling reason for this. So I think that
lacks. I also wanted to add that the scale in
this movie, the sense of scale. Yeah. Bothered
me at times like baby Kong at the end fits in
the palm of daddy Kong's hand. I'm like, I get,
I'm thinking of the scale. Cause surely baby
gorillas. aren't that small maybe they are i
don't know but like it just seemed like a really
small baby like a really yeah small baby i agree
with you there's inconsistencies too with the
like the scale of the alligators versus the human
redneck hunters and just all that stuff like
yeah it's not it's not consistent yeah yeah yeah
and i think not seeing the the apes in a cityscape
adds to that frustration too because they're
in they're among trees and mountains but like
that doesn't really help me again with a sense
of scale not like a you know a 20 -foot skyscraper
for instance so yeah i don't know just little
things like that uh campy stuff what haven't
i mentioned there okay here's a moment that i
i have to shout out pong pulls a Rambo and he
jumps into the river into the raging river to
escape and I first of all I love this scene I
think it's really well shot and he's like going
down the rapids and it's all very serious until
Kong bonks his big old head on a rock and it's
shot in slow motion and I'm just like this isn't
sell it's not they're not selling this very well
he bonks his head and then blood is in the water
i'm like what the couple i mean we've already
talked about some of the things that for me are
just straight up campy like colonel nevet and
the hunters and some of the ape puns are gloriously
campy but i mean they're all over the place i
i will say that i think this falls into campy
there are just a few production inconsistencies
that kind of like That struck me. The two that
I noticed were at the beginning, the credit says
it's the, I think it says the Atlanta Institute,
but then during the movie, they call it the Atlantic
Institute the entire time. And then also the
big one for me that just kind of made my brain
explode was after the heart surgery is successful
and the reporters talking and there are all these,
you know, people waving signs and one's guy.
It's got a gorilla costume on. There's a sign
that says, You Kong, Me Faye. Which is a reference
to Faye Ray, who's not part of this universe.
And in fact, shouldn't be anyway, because that's
the actress who played Ann Daryl. Like that whole
thing. I was just like, how did that get in this
movie? That just, it boggled my mind. And in
that scene, there's a flash of a Confederate
flag. Yes. Yeah. And given some of the like racial
coding of King Kong, like the original King Kong,
like, you know, I mean, it's just like kind of
a bad look in general, you know? Yeah, absolutely.
And the rednecks. You could read a very dark
message into all that for sure. I think that's
there. Yeah. Yeah. It seems almost unintentionally
there though, you know, which is like, I mean,
if it is intentional, like why not make a clearer
point of that, you know? I feel like that's kind
of a consistent thing with just the King Kong
story in general, like how much of this subtext
is intentional, how much of it just is and a
product of its time. Yeah, for sure. It feels
kind of awkward to go back to some campy stuff
now, but there's a lot of it in this movie. And
like, I do like some lines of dialogue, you know,
I think are intentionally funny. And like when,
when a guy runs in, like one of the. I don't
know. He's in like the hospital, the warehouse
where they're operating on King Kong. And he's
like, the other monkeys go and ape shit. I thought
that was kind of fun. I also love the fact that
like when they're trying to like restrain Lady
Kong, there's only one guy, one guard who's in
the warehouse fucking King Kong. And then when
King Kong inevitably breaks his restraints, this
guy doesn't know what to do. And he's like just
a complete buffoon. I love that guy. Whoever
they cast is perfect for that role. And when
Mitchell and Franklin are trying to break into
the lab, there's one guard at the gate and the
gate is open. And Mitchell basically pulls that,
hey, look over there and pushes them out of the
way and they make a run for it. Yeah, I love
it. I legitimately laugh like genuinely when
they're going, one of the times they're going
in to check in on Lady Kong and they're not sure
that Kong is still alive. They haven't found
him yet. Linda Hamilton says something like,
you know, have you, you're the one that said
to the other doctor that you're the one that
said that, you know, apes mate for life, that
the male returns. And he's like, not when he's
dead. I laughed at that. There was a line. Mitchell
was in a car with, it was like towards the end.
I don't know. He, they had to get somewhere in
a hurry. And Mitch says, we got to hump it. And
I was watching with the subtitles and I was like,
is that an 80s thing that people said? That's
very strange. I also really love the reporter
who's talking about Lady Kong in the warehouse.
And he's like, this is the biggest ladies dressing
room ever made. I thought that was a pretty ridiculous
line. And then, sorry, the last thing for the
campy category for me is one of my favorite scenes
in the movie when they're trying to restrain
Lady Kong and then King Kong breaks in. And then
the military is trying to shoot apparently both
Lady Kong and King Kong. And Hank is like just
causing havoc in every way he possibly can. It's
like, man, this is pandemonium. It immediately
just like devolves into chaos. And they're like
cars on fire. I love that. Yeah, that scene is
amazing. It's just totally ridiculous the entire
time. It's so fun. Why were there cars driving
through the warehouse? It makes no sense. It's
brilliant, yeah. Hank is riding on the back of
a Jeep, and he kicks the driver in the back of
the head. But he does it very gingerly, probably
not trying to actually kick the actor in the
head. I really love that moment as well. Amazing.
Yeah, they kind of repeat that whole... sense
of pandemonium in the, like the small town where
Kong crashes in on and, and the red decks go
crazy and there's bikers and people shooting
off rifles and in the crowd and cars are crashing
again. Just. Yeah. And in the middle of it, there's
all this pandemonium. And then this guy said,
Hey baby, wait till you see this gets on his
motorcycle and just drives between Kong's legs.
Like that's great. Yeah. Totally ridiculous,
man. He said, I've always wanted to do this.
Here's my chance. I've always dreamed of there
being a giant gorilla that I can ride my bike
through his legs. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, this movie
is funny. But here we are at the end of our episode.
We got to give it a rating. As always, Matt,
would you please do the honors of telling us
those four ratings? I would love to. This is
my favorite part of every episode. Our highest
rating on Camp Kaiju is it is a timeless classic.
It definitely stands the test of time. Our second
highest rating is there may be some antiquated
moments, but overall, it's great. It stands the
test of time. Our third rating is it may be historically
significant or just fun, but it does not stand
the test of time. and our lowest rating, it is
not worth revisiting. It definitely does not
stand the test of time. I think that there are
plenty of antiquated moments that we've discussed
that do not work, that do not hold up, but I
enjoyed this movie so much more than I thought,
maybe because the bar was so low for me coming
into it. I had a blast watching it. Yeah, I think
some scenes ran long, but... I would watch this
movie again, especially paired with another King
Kong movie. So I'm going to say overall, it's
great. And I think it does stand the test of
time. I love it. Ben, I feel like maybe you should
have the last word because you kind of indirectly
brought King Kong lives to the podcast. So sure.
So I can go next if you'd like just very quickly.
But for me, I would say this movie is fun. But
I don't know if it totally stands the test of
time. I think it could have been even better
if the movie had had a sharper handle on tone,
if it had been a little bit more intentional
about some of the depictions, some of the ideas.
But it is really fun. I mean, honestly, with
the critical reputation in this movie, I thought
I was going to give this our lowest rating, and
I'm not going to do that. It is a very fun movie.
So, you know, I do understand the... critical
lambasting this movie got upon its release, but
it's fun. So it'll get our second lowest rating
from me. Okay. Yeah, I have to... I think I have
to agree with you, Matt. I... You know, I have
known this movie for a very long time, and...
I will still, to this day, recommend the 76 King
Kong to anyone who's even a casual fan. I legitimately
love that movie. I turn to it as comfort food
at least once a year. I do not put King Kong
Lives in the same category. It's a curio. I mean,
it is fun. I wouldn't call it historically significant.
I think it's worth checking out if you're a more
diehard fan, for sure, or if you're in the mood
for some laughs. But yeah, I don't think it stands
the test of time. I need to revisit the 76 Kong.
I've seen it a couple times. I was a little lukewarm
on it, but I'm in the mood now, especially after
watching this sequel. Yeah, I like the 76 one.
I haven't seen it in a while, but I do like the
star power in that movie. Jeff Bridges and Jessica
Lange, a lot of fun to watch in that one, and
pretty good creature effects, too. Yeah. Yeah,
there it is, folks. Really glad we finally talked
about this movie. There's still plenty of other
King Kong movies we have yet to cover on the
podcast. One day we will get to all of them.
I'd love to cover other films tangential, like
Konga, for instance. Yeah. Have you ever seen
Konga, Ben? Yes, I have. I mean, I've only seen
it a couple of times, but yeah, I like it. I
was going to say also, I don't know if even maybe
you've done this, but the Mighty Peking Man.
No, that's a good one. That's another giant movie.
All right. Two and a half years from now, you'll
get an email from me. Can't wait. No, I hope
to have you back on sooner than that, if you're
willing. Yeah. Thank you both. It was a lot of
fun and yeah, really enjoyed being on it. Thank
you so much. Yeah. Thanks, Ben. Have a good night,
man. Thanks for watching! or if you'd like to
be a featured voice on the show, leave a voicemail
at 612 -470 -2612. Tell us about your favorite
monster movies, your favorite King Kong movies,
and more. Go ahead and check out our website,
CampKaijuPodcast .com, for more info. Camp Kaiju
is recorded in Minneapolis, St. Paul, with Minya's
Mailbox Music by the one and only Ben Cook Feltz.
Thank you, friends. Give it up for him. Follow
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