She inadvertently dumps gasoline all over herself,
shoots a flare gun, and the boat explodes to
high heaven. And it's just like, oh, my God.
That escalated very quickly. And then it gives
the shark a scar. Then we have Scarface the shark,
which is just the touch that I love with this
movie. Hello and welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster
Movie Podcast. We are your hosts, Vincent Hannum
and Matt Levine. And we are talking about all
of our favorite monster movies, the good, the
bad, and the downright campy, and asking if they
stand the test of time. Traditional kaiju, creature
features, space invaders, the supernatural, and
everything in between. All strange beasts welcome
here. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach Linder
and the Zach Pack, powered by Coldwell Banker
Realty. Your source for real estate, home rehab,
fixing and flipping for investor clients and
residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach Pack
today for real estate services. Follow the Zach
Pack on social media and contact the Zach Pack
for investment opportunities. Link in the show
notes. The terror continues. In all the vast
and unknown depths of the ocean, how could there
have been only one? Chief Brody, can we go, please?
I think we may have another shark problem. Are
you serious? Roy Scheider. I lost him, my guy!
The holdings look incredible. Lorraine Gary.
And Murray Hamilton. Look at this. That's a shark.
You started a panic on a public beach. Now what
if somebody decides to sue us? It's a shark.
Did you ever stop to think about that? And I
know what a shark looks like because I've seen
one up close. And you better do something about
this one because I don't intend to go through
that hell again. Don't press it this time. My
kid's out there. Here we are. Second episode,
Matt. Season five, part two. Yeah, good to be
back. Yeah. How are you? I'm doing all right.
Summer is nearing its end. But aside from that,
I'm doing well. How are you doing? I'm good.
Also, in soaking up the last bit of summer here,
not like September is not often summer weather,
but something changes when the calendar flips
to September. Yeah, for sure. I love fall, so
I'm not necessarily complaining, but there's
always something a little bit bittersweet about
the end of summer. Maybe it's just the nostalgia
from being a kid, but you got to hold on to those
last days. It's like so many movies. I'm thinking
about Stand By Me. It's just all about, or the
Sandlot, it's about youth in summer, and then
it fades away, like your own youth, and then
you become a bitter old person in the winter,
only to be reborn again in the youthful spring.
I'm glad you had that ending there, because I
was about to get very depressed, but then you
turn it around. I like that. It's true. It's
the cycle that we all go through. And not to
remind you of this, but you, as you've mentioned
on the podcast before, you're a teacher. So you're
like wonderful summer off of just like watching
four monster movies a day. That's what I assume
you do during your summer. It's about to come
to an end. So I'm sure that's bittersweet. I
can no longer fall asleep in my chair at midnight
watching some B movie. I mean, I could, but I
will pay for it the next day. Yeah, yeah. You'll
have to do it less often than usual. Well, speaking
of that, watching movies and old movies and new
movies, what have you seen lately? I've seen
a lot of good stuff, although I don't know how
many of them are monster movies per se, but I
guess the first thing that comes to mind, I have
to shout out Weapons. I loved it. So good. From
the director of Barbarian, which I would say
is a monster movie. I don't know if Weapons is
exactly a monster movie, but it's a great horror
movie. Very scary, very unpredictable and stylish.
Really loved it. So if you haven't seen Weapons
yet, check it out. That's awesome. I haven't,
but everyone's talking about it. I was impressed
with Barbarian. So yeah, I'll check out Weapons.
I saw that The Monkey is finally streaming on
Hulu. I have not seen it yet, but I am very excited
to finally watch that movie. I'm holding off
on sinners until October, but there's just like,
I'm excited to watch some recent new horror films
and finally check those off the list. Cause the
hype is good. Yeah. I feel like we're in kind
of a golden age of horror. There's a lot of good
stuff out there. Sinners is great. I really like
Together a lot, which is, I would say that's
actually a monster movie, sort of unexpectedly.
But it's also kind of a comedy, a very dark comedy,
and a relationship drama at the same time. So
I like Together quite a bit as well. Okay. Yeah.
Final Destination, Bloodlines, another horror
movie that I want to see. Haven't gotten to yet.
That's a whole series that I would... You know,
the appeal to me is there. I just have not...
like summoned up the not the courage, but the
the willpower to watch any of those movies. Yeah,
I have a soft spot for them. I do like that series.
I feel like those movies and the Fast and the
Furious are kind of the same thing for me where,
you know, they fall into the guilty pleasure
category. There are so many of them and I like
don't really love the assembly line nature of
them. And yet at the same time, they're very
fun, very entertaining, high concept. you know,
just pop entertainment. And there's something
very fun about those movies. Well, that's a series
that I think would do, it would serve me well
to watch it with somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. So
we can laugh and we can just roll our eyes together
at what is happening. I think you're right about
that. And like maybe even like a packed theater
full of people all like laughing at the same
time, you know. Sadly, I didn't see Bloodlines
in the theater, so I kind of missed my opportunity
for that. But I've heard good things. Yeah. Okay,
cool. What have I watched recently? I watched
Clash of the Titans. Have you ever seen that?
The original or the more recent one? Both. I
watched both of them, actually. I guess I don't
know why I asked because I have not seen either
of them. Well, the first one from the 80s, Ray
Harryhausen's special effects. Laurence Olivier
plays Zeus. Maggie Smith is a goddess. There's...
There's a lot of entertaining things going on.
And then in the remake, and it is a remake from
2010, starring Liam Neeson as Zeus. And you get
the meme -ified line, release the Kraken. And,
you know, I gave it a solid three out of five
stars. I expected so much worse. But actually,
it's a solid adventure fantasy picture. They
both sound kind of great. I want to see both
of those. And I feel like some of those ancient
Greek movies, right? Ancient Greek or is that
ancient Roman? That's Greek, right? No, they're
Greek. You know, like there's a lot of guilty
pleasure potential there as well. Like even if
they're bad, like you have, you know, actors
like Laurence Olivier, Liam Neeson, like hamming
it up the whole time. That's great. How can you
not have fun watching that, you know? I'm assuming
anyway. I haven't seen it yet, but. No, you're
right. You don't even just see it. You just,
that's it. Well, I still plan on seeing them
someday. Who knows when? Good, good. All right.
But tonight we are continuing our August Bites,
August series. We are following up killer gorillas
in the Congo with a killer shark in New England.
That's right. Jaws 2, everybody. Maybe we should
have led with that. But why would you be listening
to this if you didn't know what? It was, it's
in the title jaws too. It is it this, this time
it's just when you thought it was safe to go
back in the water. That's it. Yeah. One of the
most famous taglines of all time. It is. Yeah.
Whether or not, whatever you think about the
movie, I think the legacy is there and I'm excited
to dig into this film. There's a lot of behind
the scenes stuff to get into some drama between
actors and director. And the producers, there's
things going on with the shark. If you know the
history behind the production of Spielberg's
Jaws, a lot of that comes back into play as well
with the mechanical shark and the ocean and whatnot.
So celebrating Jaws' 50th anniversary, I said,
let's do the sequel. Which I love. And, you know,
I do want to remind our listeners that we did
talk about Jaws the Revenge also on the podcast,
maybe like two years ago, something like that.
Well, so I'm sure we'll talk about that movie
as well. Maybe even Jaws 3D a little bit later
in this episode. Yeah, there. Well, yeah, I won't
get into too much detail about the sequels yet.
They are hit or miss. I'll just say that at this
point. I love it. I'm so excited. Okay. Some
nuts and bolts, though. We got to thank our listeners
and all our friends of the pod for hanging out
with us here. If you like what you're listening
to, please rate and review. Send us listener
comments at campkaiju at gmail .com, Instagram
at camp underscore kaiju underscore podcast.
If you'd like to be a featured voice on the show,
let us know what you think about the Jaws sequels.
Our voicemail number is 612 -470 -2612. Check
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you'll never miss any of our content. But if
you really want to get the inside scoop on all
things Camp Kaiju, check out our Patreon at patreon
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please drop us a line. Let us know if you want
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a deal. So check out patreon .com if you haven't
yet. Matt, I got to know, you mentioned during
our Congo episode that you and your friends played
a board game that you all created. I wanted to
hear more about that. And I feel like I just
ran my mouth and didn't give you time. So please
tell us about Congo, the board game. Oh, well,
first of all, I wouldn't say that. I feel like.
You know, we're both running our mouths throughout
the entire recording. I mean, that's kind of
the name of the game, right? So it's, you know,
it's cool. I didn't want to spend too much time
on that board game, but it is awesome. My friend
Chris made it. It's called The Lost City of Zinj.
which of course is the name of the ancient city
in Congo. And yeah, you play where you start
off on the continent of Africa. You go from one
city to another. You have to find resources to
prepare to go into the jungle. Much like in the
movie, you have to pay off warlords. It's equally
offensive in the board game as it is in the movie.
I'll just say that. And then eventually you make
it into the jungle. You have to go past tiger
traps. You do set up the... the automatic sentry
guns like they have in the movie as well, like
that's part of the board game. And then, yeah,
you have to find the priceless diamonds in the
lost city of Zinj and then make it back out alive.
It's a lot of fun. Chris did a great job on that
board game. So if he's listening, I told him
to listen to the Congo episode. I don't know
if he's going to or not, but thanks, Chris. Many
hours of fun playing that game. Wow. He should
patent it. I would buy that. Yeah, I don't know
how much we would have to pay for the rights
to Congo. Honestly, probably not very much at
this point, but I could be wrong. I could be
wrong about that. The rights holders are like
me with our Threadless store. They can't give
away their intellectual property. Yeah. Please
rip off Congo for free is what Universal Studios
is telling people right now. And still nobody's
doing it. I love a good monster movie themed
board game. I won't go. That's a conversation
for another time. But let's get into this month
in monster movie history. It's August. What do
we got here? We have a whole bunch of titles.
The Abyss. We have Prophecy. That's coming up
later in our season. Suspiria, I just watched.
I'm going to shout out. Jason and the Argonauts
from 1963. Speaking of Ray Harryhausen, Greek
mythology, motion pictures. Jason and the Argonauts
is a lot of fun. It's an adventure fantasy film,
but it is the film that features the iconic scene
where a bunch of skeleton warriors come to life
and attack and Jason has to fend them off. So
it's a great like sword. battle hand -to -hand
combat scene but he's Jason is fighting a small
army of skeletons and it's awesome just look
it up on YouTube everybody if you haven't Jason
and the Argonauts I've always wanted to see that,
and I feel like I really need to learn more about
Ray Harryhausen. That's one of the blind spots
in my cinematic education, and we've started
to compensate for that here on the podcast. We
talked about The Beast from 20 ,000 Fathoms,
but hopefully there will be more Harryhausen
in the future because I need to see a lot more.
Well, you're bringing one such film to the show
later this year. Oh, yeah. 20 million miles to
Earth, right? Yeah. Honestly, I forgot that was
Ray Harryhausen. So it's like I planned this,
but I didn't actually plan it. It's all just
coming together. Well, you're in for a nice surprise.
Can't wait, man. And Jason and the Argonauts
sounds awesome. I can't wait to watch it. Yeah,
it's fun. All right. What do you want to shout
out here? I think I'm going to shout out the
first movie on this list, which is The Ghost
and the Darkness from 1996. For whatever reason,
I think I've had like... an obsession maybe with
like nineties monster movies. Like, you know,
we talked about Congo on the last episode. We
also recently talked about the relic, the Island
of Dr. Moreau, some other movies from that time.
And. The Ghost in the Darkness came out when
I was 12 years old. And I feel like it's one
of those movies where once you get a little bit
older, like nowadays, you're like, oh yeah, that
movie. I vaguely remember that. And as Val Kilmer,
Michael Douglas, it's about killer lions. I feel
like it actually would have been a good choice
for August Bites. So we might have to keep that
in mind for next year. Yeah, yeah. I've never
seen it, no. But when I was a kid, I learned
about, they're called the man -eating lions of
Savo. But basically, in Africa, around like the
early 1900s, the British were building a railway.
And of course, they hired a bunch of locals to
build that railway. But the lions in the area
actually got a taste for human flesh. And dozens
of people were eaten and stolen out of their
beds at night. And I learned about this when
I was a kid, and I still have nightmares about
it. Like, honestly, the man -eating lions of
Savo. Yeah. And that's what this movie is based
on. It's set in Africa in the early 20th century,
and it's exactly that story, basically. Oh, my
gosh. Yeah. And, you know, I did see it when
I was a kid. I remember it kind of traumatizing
me when I was, like, 12 or 13 years old whenever
I saw it. I have no idea if it holds up or not,
but I really want to rewatch it sometime soon.
Yeah, I'd be interested in seeing that. Nice.
Well, speaking about new releases, we talked
about weapons. But there's a movie that came
out in July, actually, that I never got around
to shouting out. But it's called Dangerous Animals.
And it's a survival horror film. But there are
sharks in this movie. It was produced through
Shudder, which just makes me want to get a Shudder
subscription. But Dangerous Animals, from what
I understand, is about a serial killer who takes
people out on his boat. But he feeds them. to
the sharks and i'm like wow that's that sounds
campy and horrific and i want to see it yeah
totally i love that premise and that kind of
came out of nowhere i didn't really hear about
that till recently and it fits in perfectly with
tonight's episode yeah dangerous animals shark
genre like the shark genre in and of itself is
Surprisingly, something I haven't watched a lot
of. Like, I know Open Water is supposed to be
pretty good, actually. Yeah. But honestly, it
looked too scary for me when it came out. Yeah.
But something like Deep Blue Sea is exactly in
my wheelhouse. Have you seen that movie? Yeah,
I love Deep Blue Sea. That's great. It has one
of the best character deaths of all time. And
that's all I'm going to say. Ooh. It's been years
since I've seen it. Because they used to be on
TBS a lot, I think. Yeah. Yeah, which is probably
like 20 years ago. Right, yeah. It might make
the rounds again sometime, but that's a good
cable movie for sure. Love Deep Blue Sea. I also
really want to see The Shallows. I think Blake
Lively is in that movie. Never seen that. That's
another shark -themed movie, I think. The Meg,
I would like to see. I've heard mixed things
about that. Oh, yeah. See that one for yourself.
Unfortunately, you know, it is what it is to
each their own. It just wasn't my cup of tea,
surprisingly. You know, sometimes I surprise
myself where, you know, a movie like The Meg
should be something that I love. And people are
a little surprised to hear that I didn't love
it. I mean, just like seeing the trailers and
everything, I don't assume it's actually very
good, but I feel obligated to see it at some
point. Yeah, it's all spectacle, which, hey,
if that's what you want, no harm, no foul. Yeah,
a lot of CGI though, right? Which, as we've talked
about many times, is not my cup of tea. Right,
right. Your cup of chum. Indeed. Nice. I did
not expect that. Well done. That was good. I
sort of hope we never talk about the Sharknado
movies on Camp Kaiju, but we'll see. We'll see
what happens. Maybe somebody brings them to the
pod someday and then I'm going to have to eat
my words. But yeah, let's hold off on that for
a while, preferably. No Sharknado. I'm not saying
I'm bringing Sharknado anytime soon, but it has
been in my back pocket for a while. Yeah, it's
a good like in case of emergency break glass
sort of title like that's sitting there if we
ever need a backup plan. I've never seen it.
Me either. So I shouldn't assume. Yeah, I know.
I hate it. All right. But yeah, forget about
Jaws 2. Let's let's cancel this recording. Watch
Sharknado and that's. Oh, God, I brought this
upon myself. It's fair. No. I love Jaws and its
sequels too much to do that. All right, but what
are we talking about next time on Camp Kaiju?
Give us a little sneak peek. Next time we're
talking about Space Amoeba. Honestly, I don't
really know too much about this movie. It was
directed by Ishiro Honda, I believe, but it's
not part of the Godzilla canon, or is it? It
is not a Godzilla film. It's a Toho film, so
you could say it inhabits the same universe.
Okay. But I love the title. I'm kind of just
reading the plot right now. I love the general
plot synopsis. You have an alien amoeba, space
probes, gigantic monsters of native life forms
in the Pacific Ocean. I'm so excited for this
movie. It sounds great. It sounds great. I'm
not going to say anything about it. Let you make
your own opinion. But it is a Shiro Honda. And
yeah, does it stand the test of time? We'll see.
After Space Amoeba, which is a great title, we
have King Kong Lives. And friend of the pod and
musician of the pod, Ben Cook -Felts. He does
our music for Minya's Mailbox, that little interlude
there. Ben joined us previously for Mothra and
Mothra vs. Godzilla years ago. So we're very
excited to have him back on the show. He says
King Kong Lives. is like the movie that got him
into kaiju films. Whoa. Super passionate fan
there, despite all of its flaws, because I've
never seen it, but I've heard mixed things about
King Kong Lives. So we'll find out. I'm excited
for that one too. That's from the director of
the 1976 King Kong, right? I don't know if it's
the same director, but I believe it's the same
producer, which would be Dino De Laurentiis.
Oh, yeah. Nice. Cool. I'm excited for that one.
Yeah. I love a Dino De Laurentiis motion picture.
Yeah. All Dino all the time. Maybe that'll be
one of our seasons coming up. That'd be fun.
Yeah, he did. I think he produced Orca that we
did on the show. Yeah, he's he had a real ying
zing a real a real yang for that kind of stuff.
Yeah. I don't know what the expression is either.
Yeah. Yen? I don't think Yen is totally right.
He had a knack for it. No, that is what I was
trying to say. But, you know, here we go. Sorry.
Leading us astray as always. There is a creature
alive today who has survived millions of years
of evolution without change, without passion.
And without logic, it lives to kill. A mindless
eating machine. It will attack and devour anything.
It is as if God created the devil and gave him
jaws. From the best -selling novel, Jaws. Rated
PG. Maybe too intense for younger children. Who
could have imagined they were there? Who could
have predicted they would attack? And now, who
would survive? Your Honor. They're here. Piranha.
They're hungry. What's the matter with you? Piranha.
They're unstoppable. Stop that! Keep your hand
out of the water. What's wrong with the water?
The water is filled with carnivorous fish. Piranha.
They call them the devil fish because wherever
they go, hell waits below. They breed like flies.
There'll be no way to stop them. Suddenly, no
one is safe. And everyone must be warned. The
water is now a human death trap. Two people have
been killed up there and more have been killed
all along the river. You've got to believe us.
These are the man -eaters who go beyond the bite
of all other jaws. Sharks come alone. Piranha
come in thousands. Crazed by the scent of blood,
they live by the taste of flesh. With razor teeth,
they can strip a man to the bone in a frozen
instant of terror. So, what is your personal
history with Jaws 2? I had seen it before this
most recent rewatch, but it was a long time ago.
And I think it was the kind of thing where, like,
I did see it all the way through once a long
time ago, but, like... Since then, it's like
always on cable TV. So I see like bits and pieces
here and there, like a couple minutes, you know,
and sometimes I'll turn it on on like TBS or
whatever it is and be like, oh, this actually
looks pretty good. And then other, you know,
like a certain other like stretch of time in
the movie, you might flip it on and be like,
wow, this is terrible. I mean, maybe that's the
movie in a nutshell, like the two extremes. But
yeah, that's been my kind of like. Scattershot
history with this movie. I had seen it a long
time ago and then kind of just like fragments
here and there. Yeah, I'm with you. Scattershot's
a good word to use with this film because like
I had the VHS with my brother growing up, but
I never watched it. I've seen Jaws more times
than I can count. I know it by heart. But Jaws
2 and the sequels, but Jaws 2, I just weirdly
never watched. It was only a few years ago I
gave the whole series a concerted watch through,
and I was like, okay, okay. Jaws 2 is worthy
of a discussion, I think. I don't know. Yeah,
I think there's a lot to like, and there's a
lot to critique. So I'm with you. Let's unfurl
the sails, shoot our cyanide -tipped bullets
into the ocean. And, you know, electrocute us
a shark. Yeah. Open wide and say, ah. I'm glad
you caught that, too. Not quite the same as smile,
you son of a bitch. Yeah. Yeah. It's trying to
be the same, but it's not. I can't live up to
it, of course. I know. Which defines Jaws 2 as
a whole, perhaps. Perhaps. Okay. Let's get into
the select crew and cast of this film. Now, the
director, forgive me, I've heard his name pronounced,
but I know I'm going to mispronounce it so hard.
Gino Schwark. Gino Schwark. He is a French director
of Polish Jewish ancestry. He and his family
actually were in Paris when the Nazis invaded
and they fled. And that was in 1940 when he was
a kid. He moved around a bit, but he ended up
back in France in the late 40s. And he did not
go to school for film. He kind of had an informal
training. He left an advertising job in the 60s
to work on Charade, the film, the Stanley Donnan
film in 1962, I think. So he just kind of kicked
around the industry for the better part of a
decade. He made in 1975 a movie called Bug, which
Matt, I think you have mentioned on this podcast.
I might have mentioned it, but I've never seen
it before. I do like the more recent Bug by William
Friedkin, but I've never seen the 1975 one. Okay,
maybe that's what you were talking about. But
yeah, that just had my feelers up. So I was like,
oh, making connections. Okay, cool. But Jaws
2 really was his breakout. And he was direct.
I'll get to that bit later, but Jaws 2 is his
breakout. Other well -known credits include 1980s
Somewhere in Time, which looks really good to
me. I'd like to see that time travel drama. Supergirl
in 1984, and then related to Superman, he directed
some episodes of Smallville in the 2000s, and
he just died this past year at 87. Yeah, rest
in peace. Yeah, long career. despite, you know,
just kind of, well, I wouldn't say he fell into
the, into filmmaking. Like he worked really hard.
He had a long time interest in the photography
and the cinematography. Honestly, I started typing
up Gino Schwark notes and I told myself, wait,
wait, this is not an episode about the director.
It's an episode about Jaws 2. So I, that was
my truncated version. Nice. I do the same thing.
I fall into that trap too, where I'm like, I
want to talk about everything, but we can't really
do that. But yeah, Jeannot Schwark, I believe,
I'm also, I apologize if I'm not pronouncing
that well, but I think he kind of started in
TV. Like I know he also directed some episodes
of the Rockford Files and some other TV shows
in the 1970s. And then, like you said, kind of
came back to TV with Smallville and I think like
Law and Order, maybe even like some other shows.
A big TV director as well. Yeah, yeah. Night
Gallery is where he met production designer Joe
Alves. And it was Alves who recommended Schwark
for the job of Jaws 2. And Verna Fields, the
Academy Award winning editor on Jaws by Jaws
2 had been promoted to VP at Universal Studios,
which tremendous, terrific. Love to see that.
And she hired. Schwark for the show, for the
movie. Yeah, I read that Alves and Verna Fields
were going to co -direct this movie, but they
weren't allowed to do that by the Directors Guild
of America for a variety of kind of arbitrary
reasons. So they got Schwark instead, which I
think is kind of interesting. That's right. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Well, speaking of Joe Alves, I think
we just kind of said what there's to say with
him related to this film, but he was the production
designer on Jaws 2. He had that same job. with
spielberg's jaws and then he would actually go
on to direct jaws 3d this episode is not about
jaws 3 but i think that movie is also worthy
of discussion for for good bad and campy elements
totally agree with that yes i've seen jaws 3d
more often than i've seen jaws 2 for whatever
reason same yeah i don't know but yeah okay music
john williams came back for an original score
Which surprised me. I thought it was just going
to be a rehash of his Jaws score. But no, it's
a new theme that he took pride in elaborating
on and adding new elements to his composition.
The film, must be said, it was produced by Richard
D. Zanuck and David Brown, longtime Hollywood
producing duo. They produced the first Jaws.
and gave Spielberg his start with The Sugarland
Express. Those are the only two films that come
to mind, but Zanuck and Brown, they are well
-known Hollywood producers. Zanuck, I think the
son, maybe the grandson of Daryl Zanuck, one
of the great super producers of all time. That's
right. Ah, it might be Zanuck. And I'm off the
cuff here, but he produced Planet of the Apes
as well. I think that was his first producing
job, doing Planet of the Apes at Fox. I think
you're right, yeah. That's quite a first credit.
Like, what an auspicious beginning. Seriously.
So they're cool guys. I don't say that about
a lot of producers. I don't know their histories
in detail, but I feel like producers are often...
behind the scenes. Like they don't, they're not
as famous oftentimes as the other creatives on
the team. But with Zanuck and Brown, I've known
their names my whole life because I've loved
Jaws my whole life. Yeah. And, you know, I think
you could say that Spielberg, you know, largely
deserves credit for like inventing the modern
day blockbuster by directing Jaws. But, you know,
some of that credit goes to Zanuck and Brown
as well for producing it. Yeah. Screenplay. is
by Carl Gottlieb, who also penned the first Jaws
script. And he's returning, not without some
drama. We'll get into that. Howard Sackler is
co -writer of Jaws 2. He was a noted dramatist.
He wrote a play called The Great White Hope,
which is a callback to Congo with Ernie Hudson.
And we talked about that Great White Hope connection
there. So that's a lot of fun. He also, Howard
Sackler, had an uncredited role doing rewrites
on the first Jaws screenplay. And he actually
co -wrote the Indianapolis monologue with Robert
Shaw. So Howard Sackler, thank him and Shaw for
that iconic monologue. One of the best scenes
in that movie. Honestly. But now Howard Sackler
is definitely credited with the screenplay on
this movie. Yeah, for sure. We have a lot of
returning actors this time around in Jaws 2.
We have Roy Scheider returning as Police Chief
Martin Brody. Lorraine Gary playing his wife,
Mrs. Ellen Brody. Murray Hamilton returning as
Mayor Vaughn, one of the most detestable mayors
in film history. Maybe a little bit more likable
this time around, though. We also have Jeffrey
Kramer returning as Deputy Hendricks, who's kind
of a, you know, provides some comic relief in
a supporting role. And last but not least, we
have Joseph Mascolo. I don't know if I'm pronouncing
that right, as Len Peterson. I feel like Len
Peterson, the character, is kind of filling the
Mayor Vaughn role this time around, where he
is despicable, he's weaselly, he's glad -handing,
he doesn't believe there's any kind of shark
threat. And of course, it swims up to bite him
on the ass in Jaws 2. And then we also have a
lot of teenagers who are playing like spoiled
rich kids on the island. We won't really talk
about them too much, though. The actors anyway.
Right, right. The actors are they're not the
stars of this movie. A lot of the extras were
locals who were hired. The teenagers, a lot of
them were local high school kids who were hired
to play these parts. Some of them went on to
do other. work in TV and film, but our main cast
are exactly who you just mentioned, so a lot
of returning players. With the production backstory,
there's more to it than I thought, honestly.
There are two main sources of references I want
to just give credit to. The first is a 45 -minute
documentary called The Making of Jaws 2 by Laurent
Bozero on the Jaws 2 DVD and Blu -ray. I watched
that, so I'm coming in with that info. But there's
also a book that I'm dying to get my hands on
called Jaws 2, The Making of the Hollywood Sequel.
And I'm crediting that even though most of my
research, to be honest, is coming from Wikipedia.
But I know Wikipedia is sourcing all of its stuff
from both this documentary and this book, The
Making of Jaws 2. So just letting you know. Nice.
All right. We have Zanuck and Brown. They decided
to do a sequel to what Jaws may have been the
highest grossing movie of all time. Yeah. At
that point in 75, I think it might've been. Yeah.
So I think it makes all the sense in the world
from a producing standpoint to make a follow
-up film. However, this is big context. Sequels
at this time were not a thing. They just weren't
not at this level. They were seen as cheap and
gimmicky, tawdry maybe. They were nothing to
be taken seriously. Steven Spielberg wanted no
interest in it. Many of the casts like Roy Scheider,
Richard Dreyfuss, they did not want anything
to do with it. But Zanuck and Brown ultimately
decided to do a sequel because they said if they
didn't do it, somebody else would. So they did
a sequel. I also want to enlighten listeners
on some other context. It's 1978 or 77 when all
this pre -production is happening. At this time
in the wake of Jaws, we have so many spinoffs
and ripoffs. Orca, Grizzly, Joe Dante's Piranha,
Tentacles. There's a whole sub -genre all of
a sudden. movies ripping off the Jaws formula
and it's interesting for me to think about Jaws
2 as prestige as it is as like another clone
in that tradition of Jaws ripoffs you know what
I mean Yeah, for sure. And I would say some of
those other ripoffs, like Orca, for example,
are actually a little bit more original and interesting
than Jaws 2, in my opinion. Like, you can definitely
tell that this sequel is really trying to follow
the template of Jaws, like, line by line, basically.
It's really kind of... Of course, there are differences,
and we'll talk about those, but, like, yeah,
it's... One could argue that like a lot of sequels,
there's not really a reason for them to exist
aside from just like studios making money. And
that is absolutely 100 % true in this case. Not
to be too hard on it. Like it's, you know, it's,
but yeah, I mean, like it's not really bringing
anything new to the formula, you know? I agree.
Yeah. And I think, yeah, I have critiques along
those lines for sure. This is interesting. Howard
Sackler pitched a prequel to Zanuck and Brown
and Universal head Sidney Scheinberg. His idea
was actually a prequel where it would be a movie
about the sinking of the Indianapolis, basically
Quint's monologue in feature film length. And
they liked it, but they decided that that idea,
that premise. wasn't in line with the the the
jaws world that they had established which i
get that i think that makes sense again from
if you're like you want to make a sequel that
you you know you just want to make as close to
the original as possible what howard sackler
is proposing i believe is way too rarefied like
that movie to me actually sounds like a best
picture winner you know like a really prestige
drama action movie you know what i mean yeah
which i would love to see it's actually kind
of a great concept for a movie but definitely
not jaws 2 it went in a totally different direction
i know you know for for better and worse probably
yeah yeah you want to read any other stuff yeah
sure so Like you just said, Sid Sheinberg and
Universal rejected that idea. Sackler around
this time did recommend director John D. Hancock
to direct Jaws 2. and he was hired to do so.
Hancock, however, had little film experience.
He directed a movie called Bang the Drum Slowly.
He also directed a cult movie, like a low -budget
horror movie called Let's Scare Jessica to Death,
which a lot of people like. I'm not a huge fan
of that one, but, you know, generally he did
kind of like low -budget atmospheric thrillers.
And probably the high budget and the high pressure,
the great expectations of Jaws 2 might have been
a little bit too much for him. After 18 months
of production, John D. Hancock was fired for
basically that reason. The movie was becoming
a little bit too dark and serious in tone. Universal
execs wanted something a little bit lighter,
more action -oriented, more entertaining. So
that's one of the reasons that Hancock was fired.
He also believes that he was fired because he
was... caught in the middle of an argument between
Richard D. Zanuck and Scheinberg about having
Lorraine Gary's character go out on the boat
to save the teens and kind of becoming a little
bit more of the hero of the film. Gary, Lorraine
Gary, happened to be Scheinberg's wife at the
time, so certainly there was some conflict of
interest there. Hancock did not want that to
happen. He did not want that elevated sort of
role for her character in this movie, and he
thinks that he might have been partially fired
for that reason as well. Yeah. You know, it's
funny. In Jaws 4, Lorraine Gary goes out on the
boat to save the day. Yeah. And I, you know,
I like Jaws the Revenge, a .k .a. Jaws 4. Like,
I think it's definitely not a great movie, but
they're trying to do their own thing with it.
And it's kind of cool to see her in that more
leading role, which she does not have here. Yes.
I'll give that point to Jaws 4 over Jaws 2. And,
you know... Look, I think there's a total conflict
of interest that I wish wasn't there. And it's
also like nepotism and all that kind of stuff.
But with that said, I think there is an argument
to be made for elevating Ellen Brody to more
than just the wife of Chief Brody. Yeah. Which
I think could have been an interesting flavor
to add to Jaws 2. For sure. Yeah. In the finished
film, she kind of just does. Pretty much the
same thing that she did in the first Jaws movie,
unfortunately. Yeah. Yep. But for the tone that
Universal wanted for the film, they instead hired
Jeannot Schwark after Hancock was fired. Carl
Gottlieb was brought on to punch up the script
and pre -production, or actually production at
that point. Three new mechanical sharks were
built because the old ones had been left on the
studio backlot to rot and rust. I read that they
were just like in a basement and like in one
of Universal's film studios. And it's like Jaws
was your highest grossing movie and you're just
going to leave the mechanical shark there to
rust and rot. Why would you do that? My thought
exactly, because my thought was, didn't you?
Did no one have any foresight that they would
make a sequel and want to use these again? Right.
Maybe we're just like fully stuck in our own
period of movie making where like sequels are
all over the place. But it's like, how is that
not their first thought when Jaws made like 50
million dollars or whatever, you know? I think
that is is telling of the mindset. And it's so
different than today. Today, you don't make a
movie without considering the. three or four
sequels down the road, you know? Exactly. Yeah.
But clearly in 75, they would, no, they did not
want to even go near that idea. Yeah. It also
reminds me a little bit of a beer, a horror of
the deep, which we talked about like a month
and a half ago where like, you know, Toho studios
would just like reuse any props and like suits
that were lying around like, Oh, there's the
Mothra suit. Let's just bring Mothra into this
movie. Like that's. You know, why did Universal
not do that in this case? It's an illuminating,
a different approach, you know? Totally. What
I also wanted to say, oh, so I grew up in Orlando
and one of my favorite places in the world is
Universal Studios Orlando, the theme park. But
especially back in the 90s and early 2000s, it
was very much still a functioning studio. Like
they would use the backlots of the theme park.
in various productions of TV, especially, but
there was, as you snake through the lines to
one ride or another, you, you would pass one
of the mechanical sharks. It was from jaws, the
revenge, I think, but I grew up just like walking
by one of the shark props. Yeah. Now I'm like,
wow, that's, that's special. But at the time
I took it for granted, but. Yeah, just on the
back lot, just sitting there. Amazing. I wonder,
I mean, I doubt they really have like similar
things there now, right? I think they have a
Jaws ride or they used to, but I'm sure it's
not the same. Yeah. No, the Orlando Park is totally
remodeled with newer franchises, Harry Potter,
Transformers, everything like that. But I think
the Jaws ride still exists in Universal Tokyo,
maybe? Don't quote me on that. It might still
exist in Universal Hollywood. Listeners, let
us know. But if you ever get a chance, it's a
really fun ride. Man, I would love to. Let's
go to Tokyo. This is finally the thing that will
motivate us to go there. The Jaws ride. Yeah.
Not Toho Studios. It's the Jaws ride. That's
a little bit sad. Yeah. Just kidding, of course.
Well, Going back to our notes here, I do want
to say that live shark footage in Jaws 2 was
once again provided by shark documentarians Ron
and Valerie Taylor, who did the same work for
Spielberg in the first Jaws. And actually, I
think that their live shark footage, now that
I'm thinking about it, I think is more seamlessly
cut into Jaws 2 than it was in the first Jaws.
Yeah, I think generally I would agree with that
there. I think there are some cases where like
the underwater footage is not really intercut
with like the shark attack scenes very convincingly.
But it's it's hit or miss. That was one of the
bad things that I was going to bring up in my
breakdown later. But yeah, the footage itself
is good. It's not always like edited or incorporated
well into the surrounding scenes, I would say.
Yeah, no, I get that. And honestly, that's kind
of a critique I have in the first Jaws. Like,
it's really cool that it's there, and I love
that element of the live, of real shark footage.
But in the first Jaws, I feel like the mechanical
shark is so monstrous that it just doesn't look
like the same shark. Yeah, yeah. That is true,
for sure. And yeah, I think you're right, because
like, there are also the scenes in Jaws 2 where
like, we see, you know, one of the three mechanical
sharks that they had for this movie was like,
a full length, 20 whatever foot shark that we
like sometimes see, you know, going really fast
under the water. And that's pretty convincing.
Like when the movie cuts back and forth between
those shots and like actual underwater footage,
that, that stuff I think is really well done.
Yeah. Yeah. There's the, there's the, the famous
scene of the, the water skier and there's a live
shark of a great white, like lunging to bite
something. And that happens right before the
water skier is taken off her board. And that's
one example where I think that works really well,
that intercutting. Yeah, we'll get into it. We'll
get into it. Well, my next note here is that
Schwark decided to show as much of the shark
as possible. Right off the bat, his choice was,
or his thought was, look, Spielberg did such
a masterful job of hiding the shark and building
suspense. By what you can't see. I can't recreate
that. Because everyone knows it's a shark movie.
It's Jaws. The secret's out. Which I get. I was
going to talk about that more too. I do sort
of understand that mindset. But at the same time
it's like. It goes against the rules of film
suspense. You should not show the threat in full
view immediately and repeatedly in your movie.
I feel like even if audiences have seen the shark
already in the first Jaws, to build up that suspense
and to prolong the terror for as long as possible,
I just don't think it works to show it so immediately
and so fully. I think it does sap the movie of
a lot of its suspense. And, you know, it reminds
me of Hitchcock, who just he like wrote the rules
of cinematic suspense, basically. And it just
like goes against everything he would teach you
about how to make a movie, in particular a thriller,
where like the joy of it for the audience and
also like the thrill and the terror of it is
like knowing something is going to strike, but
not knowing when, not knowing what exactly it
is. So hypothetically, I understand where Schwark
is coming from, but I just don't think it works,
and I think he's incorrect in this case. I'm
not going to say it doesn't work. I think he
makes a strong choice, and he makes it work for
what it is. But to your point, I don't think
it would have not worked to have hid the shark
and build the suspense. Because if I'm going
into Spielberg's jaws, I've probably already
read the book. I've seen the poster. Like, I
know it's a shark. Like, it's not like even in
Spielberg's film, it's a great surprise what
the creature is. Like, I know what it's going
to be. So I think Schwark also could have made
that movie and still knocked it out of the park.
Yeah. Yeah, and I think you're right. I understand
where you're coming from because some of the
really intense shark attacks earlier in the movie
where we do see it just lunge in full view out
of the water, they're pretty effective. So I'll
give you that for sure. They are effective. Yeah,
but you're right. I'm not buying the, it's not
going to work because Spielberg already did it.
No, it could still work. Yeah, pretty much everybody
has seen a suspense movie before. Like we know
we basically know what's going to happen, but
it's still so fun to like wait for it, you know?
Yep. Yep. Do you want to talk about Roy Scheider's
experience? Roy Scheider is back for Jaws 2,
but he's not especially happy about it. He, of
course, is so great in the first Jaws, but had
no interest in doing the sequel at all. However,
he had recently quit The Deer Hunter for creative
differences. That was a somewhat chaotic shoot,
and I think he didn't really get along with the
director of that movie, Michael Cimino, very
much. So he dropped out of The Deer Hunter, but
he was still under a three -picture contract
with Universal. So, you know, Universal would
allow him to break that contract if he appeared
in Jaws 2, which he really, really did not want
to do. As a result, He and Schwark butted heads
a lot during the shooting of Jaws 2. Scheider
would complain about Schwark ignoring principal
actors and obsessing over technical details.
Scheider thought that Schwark was just approaching
the material all wrong and had strong thoughts
about how he should do it instead. Zanuck and
Brown had to call them into a meeting to settle
their differences. And, you know, maybe not surprisingly,
both these guys were pretty stubborn. I think
they were pretty unapologetic and set in their
ways, as a lot of larger -than -life film artists
tend to be. A letter that Schwerk wrote to Roy
Scheider is kind of interesting. Schwerk wrote
in his letter to Roy Scheider, Time and pressure
are part of my reality, and priority is something
I must deal with. You have been consulted and
your suggestions made part of my scenes many
times, whenever they did not contradict the overall
concept of the picture. If you have to be offended,
I deplore it, for no offense was meant. At this
point in the game, your feelings or my feelings
are immaterial and irrelevant. The picture is
all that matters. I love that last line. It's
great. I am the director. Let's just finish this
thing basically the way I want to do it, you
know? You know, I feel like that's what a director
kind of has to do. Like they have to butt heads
with like the actors and the crew sometimes and
be like, you know what? We're doing it my way.
I'm the director. Let's finish this thing. It
makes me think about how Richard Stanley on the
Island of Dr. Moreau absolutely could not do
what Geno Schwark did to Roy Scheider. And he
let Brando and Val Kilmer walk all over him.
Totally. Yeah. I think, you know, It's kind of
unfortunate that so many directors seem to be
such egotists, and so they're like war generals
leading their troops or whatever, but yeah, they
probably kind of have to be with this level of
expectation and power. That's why I find film
directors so fascinating. Yeah. Despite all that,
Roy Scheider did commit to doing his best in
this movie, and I've read a lot of reviews that
back that up, that say, you know... He's actually
doing a pretty damn good job, despite not wanting
to be there. Yeah, I would agree with that. He's
giving it his all. Yeah. Richard Dreyfuss declined
to return because Spielberg wasn't directing.
Now, this is interesting and fascinating. Murray
Hamilton, he plays Mayor Vaughn. He attempted
to quit this movie. He had his bags packed. He
was headed out the door of the hotel. Murray
Hamilton in the lobby and said, Murray, what's
going on? Murray said, I don't care about my
career. My wife is having a biopsy right now
for potential cancer. I'm leaving. I'm out. And
David Brown said, OK, fine. I understand. What
if we film all your scenes first and you could
be out of here in two days? And that's what they
did. And the story ends up well. Murray Hamilton's
wife did not have cancer. But that's just Murray
Hamilton's story. And I have to say, watching
this movie, before I knew that tidbit, I really
want to know if you saw what I saw. But I'm watching
Mayor Vaughn in this movie. And Murray Hamilton
seems so distraught. And me and Ellen were watching
it. And is he going to throw up? He looks so
sad and flummoxed. And now I know why, because
his mind was elsewhere on his wife. And he's
like, I'm just going to say my lines. I'm going
to get out of here. And that's, that'll be it.
Yeah, I kind of thought the same thing. I did
know that backstory before I saw the movie, so
that might have played a role in that a little
bit. But yeah, the Mayor Vaughn character just
seems kind of like tired in this movie, you know,
like he's yeah, he doesn't have the strength
to go on almost. And there's a really fascinating
scene where Chief Brody has like a picture that
he thinks shows a shark underwater and he shows
it to the whole town council and like nobody
except for Mayor Vaughn really believes him.
They're all like, whatever, Chief Brody, this
is nothing at all. And it's kind of a reversal
of the first film because Mayor Vaughn is the
only one who really kind of sticks up for him.
And in a deleted scene from the movie, I read
that the mayor is the only one who doesn't vote
to fire Chief Brody from his police chief position.
And this just kind of goes back to Murray Hamilton's
performance a little bit because like... It almost
seems like he's disgusted with the people he
works with. He's disgusted that like this is
all happening all over again. But of course,
there's that kind of like real life context that
probably like add some gravity to that, you know?
Yeah. So really interesting backstory there.
Yeah. So principal shooting began or took place
in the later half of 1977. The team worked the
last month without a single break to stay on
schedule. I think it started in New England,
but then they moved down to Florida where the
weather obviously was nicer and they had, I think,
deeper water to like have some of the like platforms
for the cameras and some of the special effects.
Chirac was given permission by his crew to. to
to agree to this shooting schedule where they
basically didn't have a break as long as they
got a big party every saturday night which seems
like it's totally fitting for this movie like
all the spoiled rich kids just like drinking
and sailing and flirting the whole time like
that's basically the crew of this movie is what
i imagine yeah So this kind of goes back to what
I just said, but town scenes were filmed in Martha's
Vineyard, and then the ocean scenes were filmed
in Florida and the Gulf of Mexico. Production
at sea was extremely challenging, as it was in
the first movie. The Cable Junction Island, which
is the island set that most of the movie's climax
takes place at, was made entirely of fiberglass
and during a storm broke its anchors. The Coast
Guard at one point called Jeannot Schwark to
tell him that his island was floating to Cuba.
Which, man, like the things you have to deal
with as a movie director, how would you respond
to that phone call in the middle of the night?
So he's like, Roy, I don't need your crap right
now. My island is floating towards Cuba. Just
learn your lines and do your job, please. Yeah.
We have an international incident here. I don't
care about your feelings. Love that story, man.
There was another case where hammerhead sharks
circled the teen actors. So like late in the
movie, all the teen actors are like in various
sailboats and they're all kind of just adrift
at sea. And there were actual hammerhead sharks
that were surrounding the actors. all these teenage
actors like tried to like notify the crew and
be like, Hey, help us. There are real sharks
here. But you know, these actors were supposed
to be in distress. So the crew just thought they
were in character and they didn't really know
exactly what was going on at first, which is
another hilarious story to me. Like, again, just
like the ridiculous things that happen on a film
set, you know? Oh, beyond ridiculous. Yeah. That's
crazy. luckily the hammerhead sharks did not
actually endanger the cast too much yes yes they
all survived yeah oh sorry no well yeah just
we had some deleted scenes one you mentioned
earlier but um there were some deleted scenes
that were cut for as the the studio wanted a
more briskly paced film so we cut some scenes
with ellen laughing at brody's jealousy like
there's a like The Len Peterson character, he's
really flirting with Alan like in front of Martin
this whole time. So some deleted scenes actually
address that, including another scene where this
is such a great scene. It's on the DVD Blu -ray,
but Martin Brody writes up Len a parking ticket
and it's purely out of spite. And Len's like,
what? Really? You're going to do this to me?
And Brody's like, yeah, yep. Yep, I need your
license and registration, please. Oh, that's
great. I want to watch that scene. Yeah. This
is already a pretty long movie. It's almost two
hours, so I understand why they had to cut some
stuff out of it. You know, I don't mind peppering
in just some critiques now. I feel like I would
have preferred those scenes over some action
scenes that I feel are filler. For example...
There's a scene with diving swim class and great
action. But ultimately, that scene could be cut
and you lose nothing because it doesn't add to
like the story story. So I don't know. That's
me. My personal taste. Subtract some of those
set pieces and add in some of that character
development. That's really going to give me some
something to chew on. No pun intended. Nice.
Yeah, I agree, but I would actually use other
scenes as stuff that I would want to be cut out
of this movie, including everything with the
kids in this movie. I don't care about them.
I read a funny Letterboxd review. There was a
Letterboxd review where somebody was like, Did
you find Brody, Quint, and Hooper boring in the
first Jaws and cared more about the spoiled rich
kids on the island? Well, have I got a movie
for you, which is totally accurate. And every
time we see the nerds who can't get a date or
the girl's cousin, she's trying to set up her
cousin with Brody's son. There were several times
while watching this movie where I asked myself
out loud, why do I care? Why do I care about
this or these characters? So I'm definitely like
peppering in my critique here, obviously. But
that's the stuff that I would want to be cut
and like put in some of that character development
stuff instead. Yeah, you're not wrong there.
I mean, this movie Jaws 2 gets compared to a
typical slasher film because you have all these
forgettable teenage characters. And I agree.
I like it by the end of it. I'm like, yeah, they
serve their purpose. But this movie really could
have. been something special had we gotten to
know these people instead of oh there she is
screaming again great screamer like that's a
good like you're really good at that but who
are you like what are your wants your fears your
cares where you come from what's your background
like i want to know what you're struggling with
and what what this shark is a metaphor for you
yeah totally And maybe there are just too many
characters. Like, if you focus on two of those
young characters, then that could work, you know?
Totally. Like, I want to focus on the Brodies,
first and foremost. And I want to focus on some
girls, get some romance in there. But then, yeah.
I mean, everyone else at the end of the day is
just fodder. Just there to be killed. Yeah. Just
chum, to use that metaphor again. yeah just chum
in the water yeah the film opened in june of
1978 it was for a mere 30 million dollar budget
the most expensive film universal had ever made
at that point which is crazy to me but also it
ended up grossing 200 over 200 million worldwide
so gangbusters retrospective reviews highlight
the lead actors and the score by john williams
it's also these days regarded as the best of
the jaws sequels but that is a very low bar one
could make the argument that it's not the worst
of the jaws sequels but we'll return to that
idea oh sorry not the best of the jaws sequels
is what i meant i'm sorry about that yeah totally
i think i think those among those three sequels
it's like what kind of flavor of ice cream do
you want like it's all it's all gonna be delicious
But for different reasons, I guess. Yeah. Delicious,
but maybe not very satisfying in the end. There
are parts of Josh 3 that I love. Dennis Quaid
is in it, apparently on Coke the whole time.
Yeah. Lou Gossett Jr. is in that as well. I love
him in that movie. He's very good in that. Sorry
to, I feel like I'm kind of. diverting us again
but then in the fourth one we have Michael Caine
like and and he didn't care about that movie
at all but he's still a pleasure to watch in
that you know and the ridiculous plot of Jaws
the Revenge I love it it's so so absurd it's
great I know like they're not unwatchable movies
right sorry I just had to throw that in there
because I I'll talk more about that later sorry
okay all right all right Now, contemporary reviews
were not so kind, mixed to negative. A couple
that I want to shout out, Roger Ebert called
it pure trash, which is awesome. Vincent Camby
of the New York Times said some of the action
sequences have been well staged, but they've
been dropped into this film so indiscriminately
that Jaws 2 never builds to a particular climax.
It simply drones on and on like a television
movie. Someone also made a mistake in showing
us so much of the mechanical shark so early in
the film. I only threw that in there because
I think Vincent Canby is echoing a lot of, or
sorry, we're echoing a lot of what Canby is saying
in that like three sentence bite there. No pun
intended. So many shark puns. I love it. But
with all it said and done, the legacy is actually.
long for this movie. It established the viability
of sequels as a worthwhile venture in Hollywood.
So you're welcome, pop culture. We talked about
the tagline and the ride at Universal Studios.
So, you know, Jaws 2. Yeah, yep. I think it was
the highest grossing sequel of all time for one
year. But then in 1979, Rocky 2 broke that record.
Oh, yes. All right. On that note, Camp Kaiju
is sponsored by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack,
powered by Coldwell Banker Realty, your source
for real estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping
for investor clients and residential buyers.
Reach out to the Zach Pack today for real estate
services. Follow the Zach Pack on social media.
Contact the Zach Pack for investment opportunities.
Links in the show notes. We have some comments.
to share with you all in Minya's mailbox. Just
let me pull those up. These are in response to
our special episode from Peter Lorre, the Poverty
Row Picture Show. And we have Superfan Don. The
Peter Lorre appearances on the podcast are great,
but putting them all together, awesome. Thank
you, Don. We appreciate that. And then we have
Mark on Spotify as well, says, fun episode. Thank
you, Mark. We also appreciate that. Thank you.
Yeah, we'll get those comments over to Peter,
wherever he is. I hear the screams have stopped,
though. Yeah, I haven't gone in there for several
days, so who knows what's going on. There's an
increasingly foul odor from his room. So I don't
have high hopes, but at least he's quiet. I can
finally get some sleep around here. Nice. Good
for you. Yeah. Take advantage. It may not last
long. Right. I also just want to shout out Jonathan
who reached out to me and let me know that he
also found the poverty row picture show compilation
episode. Really fun. And did point out in the
editing faux pas on my part, which I have now
addressed. So your listening experience should
be seamless. Folks, go back and listen to that
episode. A lot of fun, as our listeners have
stated. Indeed. All right. So coming up on the
Poverty Row Picture Show is a 1943 movie called
Ghosts on the Loose starring Bela Lugosi and
the Dead End Kids. Letterboxd likes to share
maybe like the tagline of the film. And I love
this tagline. It says, you'll yell with glee
when these happy -go -lucky hooligans invade
the shivery domain of the man of a thousand horrors.
It's chilarious. That's a good word. Check out
Ghosts on the Loose and join Peter Lorre. I'm
surprised we haven't really talked too much about
the Abbott and Costello meet blah, blah, blah,
fill in the blanks movies. I'm guessing we'll
maybe bring some of them into the podcast at
some point, but I'm curious about your thoughts.
Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein is one
of the funniest movies ever made. Yeah. Arguably.
Like that's a common no contest argument there.
It's hilarious. Yeah. Or chill areas. One might
say. One might say. The other ones I've seen
Abbott and Costello meet the mummy is so tired
in its presentation. It's the last film they
made as a duo and they seem tired. The jokes
are tired. The mummies are tired. Abbott and
Costello meet Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is fun.
Boris Karloff plays Dr. Jekyll in that. And then
there's Abbott and Costello meet the invisible
man, which is also fun, but, but they're just,
you know, they're worthwhile for the gags, but
something about meet Frankenstein is just, it's
just like a complete movie in ways that it's
more than just gags. So I, that's my, two minute
review of those, of those movies. Yeah. I think
the Frankenstein one is the only one that I saw
like a long time ago when I was a kid. And maybe
there's one where they meet the Wolfman also,
right? That's in that one. Okay. Yeah. So that
plot is they, they, they run across Larry Talbot
played by Lon Chaney Jr. And of course he's like,
I got to find a cure for my lycanthropy. And
they're like, OK, buddy, every man turns into
a wolf at the full moon. And he's like, no, you
don't understand. I'm really a wolf. I vaguely
remember that, I think, from a long time ago.
Yeah. So then they go find Dr. Frankenstein and
Dracula shows up. And yeah, it's hilarity ensues.
Chilarity ensues. Yeah. Chilarity. I'm sorry
to lead us on that tangent, but I hope we bring
one of those movies to the podcast at some point.
Absolutely. Yeah, they're great. Welcome to the
Poverty Row Studios on the other side of Hollywood,
where the stars were dimmer. and the red carpets
dripped with blood. Together we will watch the
best of the worst, movies known for their limited
budgets, outlandish concepts, and questionable
performances. But with enough haunted houses,
zombies, ape men, and devil bats to keep you
up at night, this is the Poverty Row Picture
Show, and I dare you to sleep through these nightmares.
Hello there. I am Peter Lorre, coming to you
from inside the belly of my beloved yet admittedly
bloodthirsty lilac plant. Yes, I have been swallowed
by the monster, but fret not. As I have been
consumed limb by broken limb, I managed to grab
a hold of a sharp and pointed tooth. It broke
off in my hand and now, deep within the digestive
tract of the lilac. I wield it as a sword and
will soon be free of my captor's stomach. But
I better act quick, lest I be liquefied by these
acidic juices. Yes, I am free. Yes, take that,
you infernal beast. Back to the hell from whence
you came. Now, on with the show. This week's
movie is called Ghosts on the Loose. It is a
tired 1943 outing with the East End kids running
amok in a haunted house with Bailey Lugosi playing
a gangster and Nazi agent out to get them. And
while the synopsis promises chillerity, the film
is anything but. Clocking in at 64 minutes, much
of the film is comprised of antics fit for a
first grader, but hardly worthy of any of the
talents involved. Mr. Lugosi doesn't even show
up until halfway through. Now, it is interesting
to see the great Eva Gardner in an early role,
but it is as thankless as anything else. You're
much better off viewing the similar, but actually
hilarious, Spooks Run Wild. Alright, alright.
Well, next time we will cover another zombie
picture called Revenge of the Zombies starring
John Carradine. And until then, I'll need to
clean up this disgusting mess. Yuck! Perhaps
Matthew might be so kind as to lend a hand, but
fat chance knowing what care he has shown me
until now. Fighting for my life and an area.
How are you, Peter? Do you need a hand, Peter?
A spade and shovel, Peter. Curse you, Matthew.
Curse you. Curse you. A creature alive today
has survived millions of years of evolution.
It lives to kill a mindless eating machine that
will attack. and devour anything. One, terrified
you like nothing you have ever experienced when
it captured your imagination and tapped your
fear like no movie before it. Then, just when
you thought it was safe to go back in the water,
two, continued the legend and spread the fear.
And now... Nature's most terrifying creature
takes on an all -new dimension in an all -new
adventure. And for the first time, the terror
of Jaws will not stop at the edge of the cliff.
Jaws 3D. The third dimension is terror. Instinctively,
man has always been drawn to the sea. Its beauty.
Its mystery. Its secrets. But there is also a
vague uncertainty. A sense of intrusion into
an alien world. Where man is unwelcome. And completely
at the mercy of the most terrifying predator
on Earth. Man's deepest fear has risen again.
Jaws. The Revenge. This time, it's personal.
Where are we at? Oh, themes. Let's talk about
themes of this movie. What are the thought -provoking
questions this movie is... begging us to answer
yeah are there themes in this movie i mean this
isn't a theme per se but i like what you said
before and i kind of read this and doing some
research just how jaws 2 kind of does foreshadow
slasher movies a little bit where like the young
kids are all like pleasure hedonism they don't
care about anything like chief brody's older
son whose name i forget right now michael yeah
that's it you know, like defies his parents.
He doesn't want to get a job, all this stuff.
And then it's almost like all these kids are
punished for their like, just living in pleasure,
you know, like the shark devours all of them
or not all of them, but like some of them, a
couple of them. And it's similar to like the
killer and slasher movies, like, you know, punishing
promiscuous young people. Like, I don't know
if there's really a deeper theme, but it's just
kind of interesting that that looks forward to
what would be a very popular genre in the next
decade or so. Yeah, there are two teens that
we focus a lot on. Actually, they are a romantic
couple, Tina and Ed, and they are canoodling
every chance they get. I mean, we follow them
a lot, but Ed ends up dying a really horrific
death, I think. And I think that that sequence
is really well done. Yeah, it's really frightening.
And like that, that boy gets butchered. yeah
to talk about slasher movies and and maybe coincidentally
maybe not they're the the the real couple that's
really again trying to make out and have sex
whenever they can yeah right Again, I'm trying
to think of a shark pun and it's not coming to
me right away. But yeah, no, and like the actress
who plays Tina is really good because after Ed
is killed, like you believe in her trauma. She's
like really messed up by what she witnesses.
And I think you could say that too about the
cousin who Michael's friend tries to set him
up with. And, you know, she's a little bit, you
know, like when Michael can't hang out, she's
like, all right, I'll just make out with another
boy. And then like, you know, later on some like
really violent stuff happens and it happens right
in front of her. And she also like is totally
messed up by it. And even though before I said
that I don't care about any of the stuff that
happens to the kids in this movie, and that's
kind of true, you know, the actors are pretty
good. And like for some of them, you believe
that they are traumatized by the carnage that
they see right in front of them. 100%. I don't
think those, especially those two actresses and
then Schwartz direction, I suppose, like those
aren't thrown away. Like those are really dug
into portrayals of fear and trauma that I appreciate.
I think that gives it a much needed gravity.
Yeah. I want to talk about Martin Brody in this
movie. I think thematically, I do enjoy seeing
his character develop a little. bit and wrestle
with what he went through the trauma he went
through in jobs one like there is a scene where
he believes he sees a shark in the water on a
crowded beach and he does fire his gun into a
crowd of people and nobody's hurt or killed but
this ultimate this act ultimately gets him fired
and it's like this guy needs therapy he has clearly
been affected traumatically from his events in
jaws one and he does not know how to handle it
he probably shouldn't be police chief anymore
and i i just found that a really interesting
and needed character arc from the first film
yeah i agree and you know like the public humiliation
that he goes through in that scene is pretty
hard to watch and You know, Scheider plays it
really well. And then like his interaction with
his younger son, Sean, I think is his name. You
know, Sean, his younger son, like looks at all
like the spent bullets on the sand that like
his father is like just shot for no reason. That's
a really touching moment. And I agree that that
is like one of the deeper character elements
in the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's talk
about the good, the bad and the can't be here.
What do you, what do you think? I do think there
are some. Very frightening, very intense scenes,
like the part where it's like one of the first
shark attacks. I'm pretty sure it's actually
right after the water skier scene that you were
talking about, where like this other person on
the boat like tries to like fend off the shark
and lights it on fire. And then her like she
explodes. The whole boat blows up in this like
fiery. conflagration. Sorry, I rarely say that
word in my life. But it's a really intense scene.
It's very frightening. Like, honestly, up until
that part of the movie, I was pretty bored. And
then that happened. And I was like, oh, shit,
something's happening. Like, so that was intense.
There's some other moments where like, the shark
just like, it's kind of a jump scare. But like
the shark, you know, jumps out of the water and
you don't totally expect it. Like with the helicopter
towards the end, for example. And those are really
effective scenes. And I guess that kind of contradicts
what I said before that like maybe having just
like brief glimpses would be more effective but
yeah the movie's frightening and intense at times
it it looks good like some of it's shot very
well Roy Scheider is great yeah I think I'll
leave it at that for my good category okay yeah
I'll echo those I think I think the action set
pieces are I think they're done really well I
was I was compelled by them I think the framing
is done really well with a lot of these And I
think the shark is used well. That's what I said
earlier. Like, yeah, you see a lot of the shark,
but that's a strong choice that's done really
well. I think with the skier, the way that shot,
you see the fin behind her come up and then the
fin is racing parallel to her board. And it's
like, yeah, I know the shark's there. I'm in
suspense. And you're following the board under
the water. There's a lot of POV shots of the
shark. which I liked the helicopter scene is
so just over the top, but it's like, that's an
action movie set piece that I love because, but
the, the way that you see the shark come up from
the side of the pilot through the window. And
I jumped a little bit. I was like, Oh shit. Yeah.
And the pilot doesn't stand a chance. And you're
just like, man, this shark just ate. a helicopter
yeah that scene is great too sorry yeah no i
can well you know like the the kids think they're
about to be rescued like you can see the relief
on their faces they're like oh thank god we're
not gonna either starve to death on the sea or
be eaten by a shark and then the the pilot lands
in the water and like immediately It's like everything
goes to hell. And you can see, like, on the kids'
faces, they're like, all their elation just,
like, crashes back down to Earth, you know? Like,
they're not going to get rescued. Like, they're
still screwed. They might not survive this. Like,
you know, that's a pretty intense moment. Yep,
yep. The, I do like the ending. The shark is
electrocuted in a fiery conflagration. Very Green
Mile, just, oh, just singed. I think it's awesome.
But that's some campy stuff. So I'll save that
too for campy. Quick shout out. There's a painting
of all things that Schwark mentions in the making
of documentary called The Raft of the Medusa.
And it is a painting about a bunch of people
hanging for dear life on a raft in the ocean.
And he used this as an inspiration for... for
shooting the kids, they all bring their own rafts
together to float. So I just loved a little art
history being thrown in there. Yeah. Cool. For
what it's worth. I'm looking at that painting
right now. I don't see a lot of formal similarities
between that and Jaws 2, but it's, you know,
it's cool that he brought that idea into it.
Yeah. There's a really cool painting from about
like the 1700s. of a shark attack in Havana Harbor.
So if you Google shark attack in Havana Harbor
painting, it's a really cool painting of a shark
attack. You do that, I'm gonna talk about the
bad of Jaws 2. I'm like, the mayor doesn't believe
him again? And this is why I wanted that deleted
scene where we see Mayor Vaughn vote to keep
Brody on staff. Because without that scene, I'm
like, the mayor sucks even more in this movie.
why don't you believe him that's my problem with
a sequel that it does its own thing but it's
also like why why don't why are people hating
on Brody he deserves none of this yeah I it was
hard for me to get over that because that didn't
make any sense as a continuation of Jaws 1 I
could feel this love triangle between Brody,
Ellen, and Len Peterson. But the movie didn't
go there because they deleted the scenes. And
I was left kind of just like, this is an interesting
nugget that the film's giving me, but ultimately
abandons. And I wish it had. I wish it had delved
into some conflict between Brody and Ellen because
ultimately she ends up supporting him again.
But there's so much that Brody does in this movie.
That threatens her livelihood because she's now
like a real estate developer and she's embarrassed.
I mean, there's reason for tension that I think
could have heightened the dramatic chops of this
movie. But ultimately, they don't do that with
Ellen and all that potential is just kind of
discarded. Well, first of all, let me say that
I found this painting, Watson and the Shark from
1778. by John Singleton Copley. And it's terrifying.
It's a really beautiful painting. But yeah, it's
like a bunch of people on this small boat and
this terrifying shark is about to just chomp
into one of them who's like submerged in the
water. So thank you for pointing out this painting.
It's incredible. I love it. Yeah. But yeah, bad
stuff about Jaws 2. I agree with everything you
said. And in particular, like way too much time
is wasted on the kids. I know I already talked
about that a little bit, but it's like you could
focus on Brody and his wife and Len and that
love triangle. You could focus on the Brody's
kids a little bit more. Maybe if it's just like,
you know. Michael and like one other teenager
that might have worked. You could focus on the
shark because honestly, for like the first hour
and 15 minutes of the movie, we don't get a lot
of it. It's like the last 45 minutes are very
action heavy. But up until that, I think the
movie is honestly kind of boring and tedious
because like we spend so much time with these
kids sailing and flirting and trying to get laid.
And like, it's like, yeah, you know, we've seen
this in any teen movie. I get it. I understand
it. Like, so I really hate all that stuff. And
I, you know, I think in, I, so first of all,
Janoschvark, I'm sorry to speak ill of you, rest
in peace. But like, I do think there are some
TV movie aesthetics in Jaws 2. Like, I think,
you know, so like a month and a half ago when
we talked about Eberra, Horror of the Deep, I
was like, I love a Shiro Honda, don't love Jun
Fukuda. And if you put... movies by both of them
side by side, you could see how to make a movie
effectively and impactfully, and how to make
a movie... sloppily and sort of dully, you know?
And I think the same is true here. And like,
of course, if you compare Jaws 2 to the first
Jaws, the second one's not going to be as good,
of course. But like Spielberg, you know, of course
he knows how to craft a scene. He uses cinematography,
editing, music, blocking, all the above to like
make a scene as suspenseful as possible or like
emotional as possible, whatever he's trying to
do. But like Schwerk, I don't think really tries
to do that all that much in this movie. You mentioned
that first scene with the scuba divers, and it's
totally true of that scene. It's such a good
opportunity. We could build suspense through
music. We could know that something is in the
water before it suddenly jumps out. We could
have that atmosphere of dread built up from the
start, but we don't. The movie doesn't even attempt
that. It's kind of just like a very sloppy opening.
And I think the same is kind of true in that
other scene with the scuba divers, which you
talked about before. where there's some underwater
footage, and the footage itself looks good, but
it clearly is not from the point of view of the
shark. It's kind of just floating among some
seaweed or whatever. You know, I mean, it's not
a very well -crafted scene, because ideally that
scene should be presented from the point of view
of the shark. The suspense should be unbearable
because we know that something terrible is about
to happen. But that's not the case here in Jaws
2 because it's kind of just like a bunch of shots
that make logical sense but are thrown together,
yeah, sloppily, a little bit lazily. Throughout
the entire movie, I was like, this is not a bad
movie, but it could be so much better. If it
was told by a great visual storyteller, this
could be so much more suspenseful and exciting.
And I think every step of the way, Jeanneau -Schvark
misses the boat. That's another bad pun. But
like, you know, it just kind of, it should have
so much more care and precision. And it just
doesn't have that. So sorry again, Jeanneau -Schvark.
I just think this movie could be so much better
than it is. Word. Yeah, I agree with that, actually.
Because I think this movie offers a lot of camp.
I don't know if it's intentional. No, it's not
intentional, but that's just the way it is with
this movie. It might be it's saving grace aside
for me. I love the action set pieces, but some
of them just completely veer into over the top,
just extraordinary levels of, of action. Like
when, after the water skier goes down, which
was like a traditionally suspenseful chase scene,
then the shark. jumps into this boat. The poor
woman, she's screaming her head off. She inadvertently
dumps gasoline all over herself, shoots a flare
gun, and the boat explodes to high heaven. And
it's just like, oh my God. That escalated very
quickly. And then it gives the shark a scar.
Then we have Scarface the shark. which is just
the touch that I love with this movie. Yeah.
I love that too. A great villainous shark. Yeah.
There was a, there was a point, there's a scene
where all the teenagers are hanging out in a
bar and they're drinking. And you know, I know
the drinking age was lower back then, but even
the bartender looks like a teenager. And again,
I was watching this movie with Ellen and she
said, who's running this bar? Is it just a bar
for teenagers? I was like, yeah, it looks like
that. Honestly, everyone in this room is a teenager.
I would watch a spinoff that focuses on that
bar for teenagers. That could be fun. Yeah. So
a lot of this movie actually made me laugh or
chuckle. Same. Yeah. I know you like the quip
that Brody says at the very end, right? Before
the shark is killed? No, that's your favorite
part. Well, I do. Yeah, I do love that part.
So the shark is like electrocuted at the end
in a very improbable way. And, you know, in an
effort to imitate the end of the first Jaws,
when he says, smile, you son of a bitch. This
time around, Chief Brody is carrying like an
electrical wire. waiting for the shark to come
at him and he's like open wide and say ah and
the shark bites into the wire and gets electrocuted
and it's like you know if a shark if that huge
gray white shark is like barreling at you and
you're holding an electrical wire you're not
gonna have the time to make some stupid quip
you know and like that's in so many movies of
course but it's like really ridiculous in this
movie especially because it's such a blatant
ripoff of the first one So that is probably,
I think, the campiest moment in the entire movie.
But I do also love the moment where Brody is
trying to get some... driftwood basically out
of the ocean and like he's waiting for it to
come to him and it doesn't so then he has to
go into the ocean and he like grabs the driftwood
and like immediately a corpse that's somehow
attached to the driftwood just like lunges up
at him with this like shrill musical sting from
john williams and again that's a ripoff of the
scene in the first jaws where like the floating
head comes out of the boat hole or whatever the
boat window And it's just like, is the corpse
holding on for dear life, like just to scare
Chief Brody? What's going on here? It makes no
sense. It's really ridiculous. Yep. Yep. Yep.
But it made me laugh. So, you know, it's the
epitome of campy, right? Yeah. And the scene
with the killer whale that's gotten bites taken
out of it. And it's another moment where Brody
knows what he's talking about. And there's a
marine biologist doctor there. And she's just
placating him like, okay, sure, you know things
about sharks. And I'm like, why don't you listen
to him? Nobody's listening to the man who literally
fought and killed a shark in the last movie.
Yeah. It's probably a good thing that Brody's
not in Jaws 3D because once again, nobody would
listen to him. Even though this time around,
all the kids in the city saw him electrocute
a shark, they still would not listen to him.
In the hypothetical version that's playing in
my head right now. Yeah. And the movie ends,
Jaws 2 ends real quick. But final breakdowns,
take us away. Yeah, so as always on Camp Kaju,
we give the film a rating. Number one, it's a
timeless classic. It definitely stands the test
of time. Our second rating, there may be some
antiquated moments, but overall, it's great.
It stands the test of time. Our third rating,
it may be historically significant or just fun,
but it does not stand the test of time. And our
lowest rating, it is not worth revisiting. It
definitely does not stand the test of time. I'll
try to keep it brief. I think for me, this movie
may be historically significant. And I guess
you could say that it is by following up one
of the biggest blockbusters of all time. It is
fun at times, so I think it checks that off the
list. But for me, it does not stand the test
of time. I think long stretches of this are pretty
boring and slow. There's a lot that I don't really
care about. But of course, some good things that
are pretty fun as well. And with the sequels,
with the other Jaws sequels, I was going to mention
this very briefly. Jaws 3D is sleazy and ridiculous.
And there's just so much about it that's so over
the top. Jaws, The Revenge, I love Michael Caine
in that movie. Mario Van Peebles in a small role,
I love him in that movie as well. And just the
storyline is so ridiculous in that one too. Honestly,
I think you can make the case that Jaws 3 and
4 are more entertaining than Jaws 2. Maybe not
better than Jaws 2, but this movie is pretty
dull at times, and that's kind of unforgivable
to me. So I'm going to give this our second lowest
rating. I think that's accurate, because it's
Rocky 2 again. It's too similar to the first
one, where it's unable to carve its own identity.
Unlike three and four, which as bad as they are,
they, they are their own movies. They don't have
their own tone. That's completely different.
And I appreciate that for the sequels. However,
I think there's enough in jaws to, to be charmed
by your, you're going back to Amity. You're seeing
Brody and the mayor. You get to see Roy Scheider
actually develop his character a little bit more.
And then I'm really taken by Schwartz's direction
of the set pieces and the action moments. So
I'm going to give it the second highest rating.
There are antiquated moments, but I think this
movie does stand the test of time, especially
if you contextualize it as any of the other Jaws.
copies from the late 70s i love it i do think
it's kind of a repeat of our last episode congo
where like you know i was a little more forgiving
and you were rightfully so a little bit harder
on it i think our roles have kind of like flipped
this time around that's well let's see what space
amoeba does it could bring us together or drive
us further apart yeah we'll see can't wait Alright,
well thank you Matt. Thank you all for listening.
Please leave us a rating and review. Share this
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Kaiju is recorded in Minneapolis, St. Paul with
Minya's mailbox music by Ben Cook Phelps. Thank
you, friends. And until next time, stay campy.
Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach Linder and the
Zach Pack, powered by Coldwell Banker Realty,
your source for real estate, home rehab, fixing
and flipping for investor clients and residential
buyers. Reach out to the Zach Pack today for
real estate services. Follow the Zach Pack on
social media and contact the Zach Pack for investment
opportunities. Link in the show notes.