WEBVTT

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It's like Granny says, like the scariest or most

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dangerous ones are the ones that are hairy on

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the inside, but not on the outside, you know?

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We see that in the wedding party scene. Yeah.

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And never trust a man whose eyebrows meet in

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the middle. Yeah. Good advice for anybody. Yeah.

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That unibrow. Sorry to our unibrow listeners.

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Hello and welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster Movie

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Podcast. We're your hosts, Matt Levine. And Vincent

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Hannum. And we are talking about all our favorite

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monster movies, the good, the bad, and the downright

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campy, and asking if they stand the test of time.

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Traditional kaiju, creature features, space invaders,

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the supernatural, and everything in between.

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All strange beasts welcome here. Camp Kaiju is

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sponsored by Zack Linder and the Zack Pack, powered

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by Coldwell Banker Realty. your source for real

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estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor

00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:11.359
clients and residential buyers. Reach out to

00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:13.159
the Zach Pack today for real estate services.

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Follow the Zach Pack on social media and contact

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the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Link

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in the show notes. A young girl feels her soul

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awaken to the call of emotions she cannot name.

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This is the Twilight World, where half -forgotten

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memories of childhood lead into a fantastic realm.

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Was it a wolf or a man you killed? When I killed

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it, it was a wolf. It turned into a man. Here,

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dreams become reality. And our darkest fantasies

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come true. The worst kind of wolves are hairy

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on the inside. And when they bite you, they'll

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drag you with them to hell. Where's my daughter?

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Where did you come with my daughter? She ran

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away. No! They say the Prince of Darkness is

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a gentleman. Gentlemen always keep their promises.

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What have you done with my granddaughter? Nothing.

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She didn't want it. The Company of Wolves. Where

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fairy tales end and nightmares begin. The Company

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of Wolves. Vincent, how are you doing tonight?

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So good. I unfortunately just killed a mouse

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in my house. I say unfortunate because I feel

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bad for the little guy. Even though... It is

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kind of creepy when you're alone in your basement

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in the dark and a mouse scurries across the floor.

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So, sorry little guy. You don't want that. I

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would feel bad about it too, but they are not

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allowed in your house. That makes sense. I've

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found too many droppings too many times. Yeah.

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We'll pour a little water out for our dearly

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departed rodent friend tonight. Yeah. How are

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you, Matt? How are you, Naomi? I was just going

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to say, welcome to Naomi. We have a guest star

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tonight. Oh, yes. Thank you for joining us. Naomi

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Osborne, friend of the pod. Welcome back. Sorry

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to interrupt. How are you doing tonight? I'm

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doing good. It's so nice to talk to you guys

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when it's still light outside. Like, I feel like

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every time we meet, it's always like in the winter

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or after trivia, it's dark out. Like, I don't

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know. It's good. Summer is nice. It's feeling

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good. Absolutely. The only thing I don't love

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about it is that sometimes if I'm trying to watch

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a movie at home, like I have a lot of sunlight

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that comes into my apartment, which is great.

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But like, if it's eight o 'clock, and like, there's

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too much light on the screen, I'm like, I'm gonna

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have to start a movie and like at 11 o 'clock

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tonight, you know? Yeah, you gotta just set the,

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you know, set the tone, right? Get it all dialed

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in. I feel that for sure. Yeah. The difficulties

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of being a movie lover, you know, we have it

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rough. Oh, yes. Well, I've watched movies in

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all circumstances. This year alone, I've watched

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over 350. I just crossed the 350 threshold. So

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I'm watching movies in every kind of scenario.

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There's no nothing really regimented about it.

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That's great. Yeah. A little envious, but I'm

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happy to hear that. Tonight, we are talking about

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the movie The Company of Wolves by Neil Jordan.

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I'm really excited to talk about this one. We'll

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wait to get too much into it, but it's a weird

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one. It's a little bit on the artsy side, I guess,

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compared to some stuff that Camp Kaiju has featured.

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Not compared to other stuff, though. So, yeah,

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looking forward to it. Absolutely. It is almost

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as far away from the tone of robot jocks as...

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We could get, which is a fun whiplash. I love,

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I love that we can do this on this podcast. We

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cover a little bit of everything and as it should

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be, we shouldn't put ourselves in cinematic boxes.

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This movie challenged me. It's like, like I loved

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it, but like I'm because it is maybe a little

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unorthodox in, in its storytelling. My challenge

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was how do I critique this film? And I'll get

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into that, but that's where I'm coming at it

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right now. Yeah. Yeah, I was excited to revisit

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it. I saw it a few years ago, just randomly on

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Tubi. Like, you know, when you're looking on

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Tubi and you see the weirdest stuff on there.

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So I just saw it randomly and it totally stuck

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with me. And I was excited that you guys invited

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me to this conversation. So I'm curious to hear

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your thoughts on it and share some of my own.

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Totally. This is a movie that I've wanted to

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see for a long time. And it's pretty close to

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what I expected. Yeah, I knew it was going to

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be like not totally narrative and would be like

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a little bit surreal, have a lot of symbolism

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to it. So yeah, it'll be a fun conversation for

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sure. Yeah, kind of reminds me of like a couple

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of 70s movies that are sort of in that ilk. There's

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a movie called Picnic at Hanging Rock. It's an

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Australian, you know, kind of touches on some

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of the same themes. And then there's a Czech

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film called Valerie and Her Week of Wonders that

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also is kind of in the same vein. Those are both

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from the 70s, but I think that. They live in

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the same place in my head. Labyrinth, too, to

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some degree. Yeah. And I think I feel like the

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Company of Wolves influenced Legend as well.

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The Ridley Scott movie, like kind of a, you know,

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flipping some fairy tale kind of folklore on

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its head and like really gorgeous studio bound

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like sets and everything. So I sensed some overlap

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there as well. I thought about the recent film

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Night Bitch with Amy Adams because there's a

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scene. Like there's a whole dream sequence. Well,

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I mean, the whole movie often is, but she's running

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with the pack and the direction, the photography

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was very, it reminded me a lot of night bitch.

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That's good to hear. I still have not seen that

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movie. Yeah. Good. Yeah. I saw it. I liked it.

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I love that comparison. Actually. I didn't even

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think about that. Well, before we get too much

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further, we'll take care of some nuts and bolts

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here. Again, just want to thank all of you for

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hanging out, friends. Please rate and review

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Camp Kaiju wherever you listen to the podcast.

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You can also send us listener comments at campkaiju

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at gmail .com or on our Instagram page at camp

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underscore kaiju. If you would like to be a featured

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voice on the show, leave us a voicemail at 612

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-470 -2612. telling us about your favorite monster

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movies and memories. Also, please check out our

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website, campkaijupodcast .com, for more reviews

00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:55.819
and special content. Last but not least, also

00:07:55.819 --> 00:07:58.920
check out our merchandise at campkaiju .threadless

00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:02.319
.com. You can also become a patron at patreon

00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:06.160
.com slash campkaiju for discounts, priority

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comments, and access to any live events. On that

00:08:09.610 --> 00:08:12.449
note, as usual, we want to thank all of our patrons

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out there. Jason, BeastDrewel, a .k .a. Chris.

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The second Chris, Chris B. Sean, our anonymous

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patron, and Peggy. Thank you all so much. We

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really appreciate your support. Absolutely. Thank

00:08:27.269 --> 00:08:31.129
you, thank you, thank you. And since last time,

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I have to talk about, there was a special episode

00:08:33.929 --> 00:08:37.570
of Camp Kaiju. A woman named Beth, Beth Redlaw.

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She is a master's student at the University of

00:08:41.990 --> 00:08:44.909
Indiana, and she reached out to me because she

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got the mayor of Bloomington, Indiana to officially

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proclaim June 27th, Godzilla Day in the city

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of Bloomington. And she partnered with the local

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historic cinema, and they screened Godzilla movies

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all day, or all week, sorry. Really awesome event.

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So that was pretty cool. That was pretty exciting.

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If you haven't checked out our... recent episode

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on Godzilla Day, you can do so and let us know

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what you think of that. Robot Jocks, the aforementioned

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mech movie. Yeah, so some cool stuff since last

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time. And the Jaws 50th anniversary too. Yeah,

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Jaws, right? 50 years. I'm excited about is Jaws

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at 50, the definitive story through National

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Geographic. So if you have Disney Plus, you can

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watch that. But that... It premiered July 10th,

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so that should already be out by this episode.

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I guess there's new footage, new behind -the

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-scenes footage. Steven Spielberg and others

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are speaking, so I'm looking forward to that

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one. I'll definitely be checking that one out.

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That sounds so cool. Another new -ish release

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that's in the monster movie realm is 28 Years

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Later. Have either of you seen that yet? I haven't.

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I have not, but I think I might go this weekend

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to finally check it out, yeah. I'll be intrigued

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to hear what you think. I saw it and did not

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like it very much. I don't know if I'm the biggest

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fan of Danny Boyle in the world. He has MTV,

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one edit every half a second style that I'm usually

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not totally into, but there's some good stuff

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about the movie for sure. I won't ruin anything

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for you, but I'll be excited to hear what you

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think. But you're a big fan of the other two,

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right? I like 28 Days Later, but I haven't seen

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it in like 15 years, a very long time. And watching

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28 Years Later, I was like, if I rewatched the

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first one, would I like it as much? I don't know

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if I would, but I have not tried that out yet.

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And then the second one, 28 Weeks Later, I do

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like quite a bit, but that's a different director.

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So that might be partially why I like that one

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a little bit more. But yeah, the first two are

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good from what I remember, but it's been a long

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time. All right. Yeah, I just saw them recently

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for the first time. I've never been a big zombie

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person, just not my, not my genre, but I like

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to be a part of buzz. Like I like to be a part

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of cultural moments. So I wanted to kind of watch

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them and catch up. So I'll see that third one,

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but I've been seeing so many mixed opinions on

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it. You know, I, I'm very curious to decide for

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myself. Absolutely, yeah. And as you'll find

00:11:15.419 --> 00:11:17.139
out when you watch the third one, it kind of

00:11:17.139 --> 00:11:19.500
sets up a new trilogy of movies as well. So there

00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:22.399
will be even more zombie movies on the way. What

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are they going to call them? I think it's 28

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Years Later Part 2 and then Part 3. So I guess

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this is kind of a bridge between two different

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trilogies. Kind of strange. 28 decades later.

00:11:34.419 --> 00:11:37.399
Yeah, 28 centuries. 28 million seconds later.

00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:45.220
28 cuts later. Yeah, right. I mean, a zombie

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movie 28 centuries in the future, I would absolutely

00:11:48.340 --> 00:11:50.200
watch that. I hope somebody makes that movie.

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They would call it like, yeah, 2800 AD. That'd

00:11:56.580 --> 00:11:59.940
be like a little twist on the theme. Yeah. Well,

00:12:00.059 --> 00:12:02.059
if nobody out there is making that movie, we

00:12:02.059 --> 00:12:04.039
have to take it upon ourselves, I think. Our

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mission is clear. Yeah. In terms of monster movies

00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:11.919
that have come out throughout film history, mid

00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:14.220
-July, maybe not surprisingly, is a great time

00:12:14.220 --> 00:12:16.919
of the year for horror movies, monster movies,

00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:20.019
big budget blockbusters. Naomi, is there anything

00:12:20.019 --> 00:12:23.179
on this list of past July monster movies that

00:12:23.179 --> 00:12:26.960
jumps out at you? Yeah, there's a couple. I'm

00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:29.220
going to shout out Day of the Animals on there.

00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:33.399
It's late 70s. Have either of you seen it? I

00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:36.210
wanted to for a while. Well, basically, the premise

00:12:36.210 --> 00:12:38.970
is that like a psychosis is kind of triggered

00:12:38.970 --> 00:12:42.289
from ozone depletion and any animal above the

00:12:42.289 --> 00:12:45.809
5000 feet goes berserk. It also has a shirtless

00:12:45.809 --> 00:12:49.350
Leslie Nielsen fighting a bear. So, you know,

00:12:49.350 --> 00:12:51.590
that that could be a little something to to get

00:12:51.590 --> 00:12:54.149
you to watch it. Finally, maybe it's pretty wild.

00:12:54.570 --> 00:12:57.490
I'm sold. Yeah, that's all I needed. I have to

00:12:57.490 --> 00:13:00.669
watch that movie now. Yeah, I'm such a big fan

00:13:00.669 --> 00:13:05.700
of 70s. nature run amok films, eco horror, because

00:13:05.700 --> 00:13:11.340
the special effects are so bare bones. They're

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using real animals. So you know what? On that

00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:17.759
note, I'm going to shout out Orca from the same

00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:22.399
year, 1977, about A Killer Whale. We featured

00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:24.919
it on the podcast, but I think this movie is

00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:29.340
underrated. It's very Shakespearean in its presentation.

00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.700
And it's about a man, a harpooner, harpoonist?

00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:39.679
A harpoon man who goes toe to toe, so to speak,

00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:44.679
with a mother, no, a father orca because the

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harpoon man killed the mom or the female. And

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I say mom because the female was also pregnant.

00:13:52.820 --> 00:13:56.460
So daddy orca lost his whole family to this harpoon

00:13:56.460 --> 00:14:00.059
man. And it's on from there. Whoa. It's crazy.

00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:04.080
That sounds good. Maybe a new Father's Day type

00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:09.360
movie watch, you know? Yeah. How far a father

00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:13.840
would go. Yes. It's like Death Wish with an orca.

00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:17.159
Death Fish, right? You know what I mean? Yeah.

00:14:17.740 --> 00:14:20.659
We had so many puns on our episode, Matt, if

00:14:20.659 --> 00:14:23.700
you remember. On the orca episode, I do vaguely

00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:26.879
remember that, yeah. Yeah. As we often do on

00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:30.279
Camp Kaju. But I agree, Orca was better than

00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:31.539
I thought it would be. It's a very ridiculous

00:14:31.539 --> 00:14:33.980
movie, but it has some merit to it. Charlotte

00:14:33.980 --> 00:14:36.419
Rampling is in it. Richard Harris, I think, is

00:14:36.419 --> 00:14:38.840
in it. Yeah. Weird movie. I'll have to check

00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:42.600
it out. Yeah, not bad. There are quite a few

00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.220
on this list that I was going to shout out as

00:14:44.220 --> 00:14:46.539
well, but we were just talking about zombie movies,

00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:48.440
so I think I'll mention Day of the Dead from

00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:51.980
1985, obviously by George A. Romero, the third

00:14:51.980 --> 00:14:54.450
in that series. Personally, I like it a little

00:14:54.450 --> 00:14:56.710
bit more than Dawn of the Dead, Day of the Dead.

00:14:57.250 --> 00:14:59.450
It's certainly not subtle, but it's a great not

00:14:59.450 --> 00:15:01.429
only zombie movie, but also kind of indictment

00:15:01.429 --> 00:15:04.970
of militarism and like the U .S. Army in particular.

00:15:05.230 --> 00:15:06.889
Really great movie. Highly recommend that one.

00:15:08.110 --> 00:15:11.250
I agree. Yep. So yeah, mid -July, great time

00:15:11.250 --> 00:15:13.850
for monster movies. What, however, is coming

00:15:13.850 --> 00:15:16.129
up on Camp Kaiju? Well, I definitely just want

00:15:16.129 --> 00:15:18.509
to talk about The Shaggy Dog real quick. This

00:15:18.509 --> 00:15:21.190
is a special Magic and Monsters episode with

00:15:21.190 --> 00:15:24.429
Patrick Kozicki of the Gaze to the D Disney podcast.

00:15:25.049 --> 00:15:28.730
And Patrick and I review 1958's The Shaggy Dog,

00:15:28.970 --> 00:15:32.110
which was not the first live action Disney film,

00:15:32.250 --> 00:15:37.009
but like the first big one that proved a model

00:15:37.009 --> 00:15:41.029
that Disney could work with. But it's going to

00:15:41.029 --> 00:15:43.950
be the next episode after The Company of Wolves.

00:15:44.330 --> 00:15:47.990
And it's a great pairing because the shaggy dog

00:15:47.990 --> 00:15:52.909
actually deals with lycanthropy. And when you

00:15:52.909 --> 00:15:55.629
view it, you're like, oh, this is actually a

00:15:55.629 --> 00:15:58.669
werewolf movie. Well, a lycanthropy movie because

00:15:58.669 --> 00:16:02.389
it's a dog. But there's some spooky elements

00:16:02.389 --> 00:16:06.470
for sure. So look out for that episode next week.

00:16:06.490 --> 00:16:09.309
And then the following week, we'll do a kaiju

00:16:09.309 --> 00:16:10.929
film. And Matt, you want to talk a little bit

00:16:10.929 --> 00:16:14.159
about that? Yeah, Kaiju Live is coming up. So

00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.379
Vincent and I are going to select a few classic

00:16:17.379 --> 00:16:20.279
kaiju movies that we haven't talked about on

00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:22.899
the podcast yet. And yeah, go back to a classic

00:16:22.899 --> 00:16:28.220
of the true kaiju genre. We will determine maybe

00:16:28.220 --> 00:16:30.759
four episodes and then we'll do some voting.

00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:34.039
It could be a Showa era Godzilla, maybe not even

00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:35.639
a Godzilla film. There's lots of other kaiju

00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:37.379
out there we haven't featured on the show yet.

00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:40.399
Can't wait. It's going to be so fun. Back to

00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:43.679
some old Kaiju goodies. Not to mention announcing

00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:46.500
our Season 5 Part 2 lineup. That'll be coming

00:16:46.500 --> 00:16:48.419
soon as well, probably a little bit later this

00:16:48.419 --> 00:16:50.500
summer. Always have fun doing those episodes,

00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:54.059
so stay tuned for that as well. I can't wait

00:16:54.059 --> 00:16:57.659
to see what you guys have in store. I keep flip

00:16:57.659 --> 00:16:59.919
-flopping. I have some titles that I've been

00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:02.879
holding on to for months, for almost a year.

00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:05.259
So I'm a freak like that. But then recently,

00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:07.720
I'm like, oh no, I gotta... I want to, I want

00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:09.599
to feature this movie now instead of that other

00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:12.599
one. It's all programming. It's like, what would

00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:16.339
be, if I had to program a movie theater and show

00:17:16.339 --> 00:17:19.200
like six monster movies, what would be the ones?

00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.660
So I'm looking for variety through decades as

00:17:23.660 --> 00:17:26.839
well as sub genres. Yeah. Just seeing what works

00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:29.319
well with each other. Totally. I go through that

00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:31.420
same stuff with my trivia where I just have this

00:17:31.420 --> 00:17:36.140
ever growing long list of. Possible themes, you

00:17:36.140 --> 00:17:38.819
know, movies that I'd like to feature, ones that

00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:41.019
I'd like to connect with the time of year or

00:17:41.019 --> 00:17:43.759
something that's going around. But yeah, I think

00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:45.519
it's all the same, you know, even though we do

00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:47.700
different things, we're still facilitating a

00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:50.940
good time, you know? Yeah. Facilitating a good

00:17:50.940 --> 00:17:56.180
time. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. It's fun, but a little

00:17:56.180 --> 00:17:58.259
bit daunting sometimes in the best possible way.

00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:03.759
Yeah. So you want me to tell you the story of

00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.319
my life? I'll tell you my story. I'll tell you

00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:14.759
all of it. I'm flesh and blood, but not human.

00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:19.660
I haven't been human for 200 years. From the

00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:24.839
novel by Anne Rice. From Neil Jordan, the director

00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:27.839
of The Crying Game. I've come to answer your

00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:32.220
prayers. Life has no meaning anymore, does it?

00:18:32.980 --> 00:18:37.039
His name is Lestat. What if I could give it back

00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.859
to you? Pluck out the pain and give you another

00:18:40.859 --> 00:18:45.559
life. One you could never imagine. I can see

00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:49.680
you lying on a bed of satin. He chose one man.

00:18:50.059 --> 00:18:56.599
He gave him infinite power. Eternal life. And

00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:03.769
a daughter. Who would be forever young. This

00:19:03.769 --> 00:19:08.609
is the only real evil left. And then he took

00:19:08.609 --> 00:19:19.190
the light of day. You're a vampire who never

00:19:19.190 --> 00:19:22.170
knew what life was until it ran out in a red

00:19:22.170 --> 00:19:27.529
gush over your lips. I can't stand this any longer.

00:19:27.890 --> 00:19:30.970
You made us what we are, didn't you? God kills

00:19:30.970 --> 00:19:37.410
indiscriminately. And so shall we. Do you like

00:19:37.410 --> 00:20:00.660
dying? You condemn me to hell! Tom Cruise, Brad

00:20:00.660 --> 00:20:05.980
Pitt, Stephen Ray, Antonio Banderas, Kirsten

00:20:05.980 --> 00:20:11.500
Dunst, and Christian Slater. Interview with the

00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:24.519
vampire. What do you see? The howling. Somebody

00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:31.880
in the city. In this human jungle, it begins.

00:20:37.380 --> 00:20:40.200
He's right there. What do you see? What's there?

00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.940
What do you see, Karen? What's there? Somewhere

00:20:42.940 --> 00:20:48.759
in these woods, in this primal, sensuous, secret

00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:53.339
place, lies an experience too terrifying for

00:20:53.339 --> 00:21:09.369
words. is watch and wait. Tonight I'm going to

00:21:09.369 --> 00:21:21.089
show you something to make you believe. The Howling

00:21:34.569 --> 00:21:37.069
TriStar Pictures announces the collaboration

00:21:37.069 --> 00:21:41.450
of three extraordinary talents. Jim Henson, creator

00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:46.269
of The Muppets and Dark Crystal. Where you going

00:21:46.269 --> 00:21:50.509
with a head like that? George Lucas, creator

00:21:50.509 --> 00:22:03.150
of the Star Wars saga. the most innovative forces

00:22:03.150 --> 00:22:11.430
in modern entertainment david bowie together

00:22:11.430 --> 00:22:15.210
they will take you into a dazzling world of fantasy

00:22:15.210 --> 00:22:18.069
and adventure there's nothing to be afraid of

00:22:18.069 --> 00:22:22.930
a world where anything seems possible and nothing

00:22:22.930 --> 00:22:54.750
is what it seems The world of Labyrinth. The

00:22:54.750 --> 00:22:57.569
director and co -writer of The Company of Wolves

00:22:57.569 --> 00:23:00.470
is the Irish artist Neil Jordan. This was his

00:23:00.470 --> 00:23:02.710
second movie after his feature debut, which is

00:23:02.710 --> 00:23:05.339
called Angel. He directed a lot of movies throughout

00:23:05.339 --> 00:23:07.759
his career. He's still going strong. He directed

00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:10.480
films like Mona Lisa, The Crying Game, Interview

00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:13.420
with a Vampire, The End of the Affair. Breakfast

00:23:13.420 --> 00:23:16.400
on Pluto, many others. Little hit or miss sometimes,

00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:18.380
maybe, in my opinion, but he definitely has some

00:23:18.380 --> 00:23:21.220
great stuff. In terms of general themes in his

00:23:21.220 --> 00:23:24.259
films, they often focus on sexuality and social

00:23:24.259 --> 00:23:27.079
or political pressures. Since he's Irish, in

00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:29.920
his movies, that sometimes deals with the troubles

00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:32.519
of Northern Ireland and issues of independence

00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:35.319
and colonialism and things of that nature. And

00:23:35.319 --> 00:23:37.000
some of that, maybe not the political stuff,

00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:39.519
but certainly the theme of sexuality, plays a

00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:42.390
major role in The Company of Wolves. I thought

00:23:42.390 --> 00:23:44.410
it was kind of interesting. He started off writing

00:23:44.410 --> 00:23:47.109
children's fantasy series for Irish TV called

00:23:47.109 --> 00:23:49.930
Wanderly Wagon. And I just thought that might've

00:23:49.930 --> 00:23:51.789
had some kind of influence on the Company of

00:23:51.789 --> 00:23:53.549
Wolves as well, which is not a kid's movie, but

00:23:53.549 --> 00:23:56.650
it has some like fairytale elements to it. I

00:23:56.650 --> 00:23:58.890
wonder if there's any like themes of transformation

00:23:58.890 --> 00:24:00.990
in that, you know, I've only seen Interview with

00:24:00.990 --> 00:24:03.529
the Vampire and that's definitely a common theme

00:24:03.529 --> 00:24:05.769
in that. I'll have to check out some of his other

00:24:05.769 --> 00:24:09.289
films though. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Sorry, Matt. No.

00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:11.859
Well, I was going to say, I have also only seen

00:24:11.859 --> 00:24:14.160
Interview with the Vampire on that list, which

00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:17.259
is definitely about sexuality, but it's so campy.

00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:20.180
And I mean that as a compliment. I think it's

00:24:20.180 --> 00:24:23.740
a stylistic choice for that film to be as over

00:24:23.740 --> 00:24:26.900
the top as it is sometimes. Maybe, maybe not.

00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:30.279
I've read mixed reviews, but I like that movie

00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:33.740
a lot personally. But it's very different in

00:24:33.740 --> 00:24:35.660
its presentation from The Company of Wolves,

00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:40.049
which I found very few moments of humor. And

00:24:40.049 --> 00:24:42.950
camp. I think this movie takes itself very seriously,

00:24:43.049 --> 00:24:45.670
which is a good thing, I think. So yeah, I'd

00:24:45.670 --> 00:24:48.049
like to see some other Neil Jordan examples.

00:24:49.369 --> 00:24:51.549
Yeah, Interview with a Vampire is a very fun

00:24:51.549 --> 00:24:53.390
movie for sure. I feel like maybe the literary

00:24:53.390 --> 00:24:56.069
source by Anne Rice might lead to some of that

00:24:56.069 --> 00:24:58.250
camp value. Because you're right, the tone is

00:24:58.250 --> 00:25:00.430
totally different from The Company of Wolves,

00:25:00.450 --> 00:25:02.849
for better or worse. But yeah, Breakfast on Pluto

00:25:02.849 --> 00:25:04.970
with Cillian Murphy is really good. The End of

00:25:04.970 --> 00:25:08.279
the Affair with Julianne Moore is great. Yeah,

00:25:08.299 --> 00:25:11.640
overall, a director to check out, for sure. Yeah.

00:25:12.339 --> 00:25:15.240
Perhaps the second major creative influence on

00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:17.259
The Company of Wolves is the co -writer, Angela

00:25:17.259 --> 00:25:20.660
Carter. She also wrote the short stories on which

00:25:20.660 --> 00:25:23.619
the film is based, certainly The Company of Wolves,

00:25:23.619 --> 00:25:26.460
the eponymous short story, but also a couple

00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:28.299
of her other short stories, The Werewolf and

00:25:28.299 --> 00:25:30.799
Wolf Alice, all of which were featured in The

00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:33.000
Bloody Chamber, an anthology of short stories

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:35.960
that she wrote. Angela Carter worked with Jordan

00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:38.559
on the screenplay of The Company of Wolves. She

00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:40.500
said that she really enjoyed the filmmaking process.

00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:43.220
This was kind of her first screenwriting experience,

00:25:43.420 --> 00:25:46.220
although she did do a radio adaptation of The

00:25:46.220 --> 00:25:48.880
Company of Wolves before this. She's an English

00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:51.460
writer, very well known for her feminist, magical,

00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:54.309
realist works. Before writing The Bloody Chamber,

00:25:54.630 --> 00:25:57.069
Angela Carter translated the works of Charles

00:25:57.069 --> 00:25:59.789
Perrault, who wrote the original Little Red Riding

00:25:59.789 --> 00:26:02.349
Hood along with many other fairy tales. And,

00:26:02.369 --> 00:26:04.690
you know, kind of like Neil Jordan's early TV

00:26:04.690 --> 00:26:07.710
work, I wonder if Angela Carter's work translating

00:26:07.710 --> 00:26:09.970
those fairy tales presumably led to some of the

00:26:09.970 --> 00:26:12.029
themes in this movie as well. We'll talk a little

00:26:12.029 --> 00:26:13.650
bit more about Angela Carter later on tonight,

00:26:13.769 --> 00:26:15.750
but just a few more names I want to mention.

00:26:15.890 --> 00:26:18.430
We have cinematographer Brian Loftus, who did

00:26:18.430 --> 00:26:20.329
some of the special photographic effects for

00:26:20.329 --> 00:26:23.190
2001 A Space Odyssey. Wanted to call him out

00:26:23.190 --> 00:26:25.349
because I think The Company of Wolves is absolutely

00:26:25.349 --> 00:26:27.849
gorgeous and I love his work in this movie. I

00:26:27.849 --> 00:26:29.329
think the music is really good as well. George

00:26:29.329 --> 00:26:32.809
Fenton did the musical score. And then finally,

00:26:32.829 --> 00:26:35.650
we have production design by Anton Furst, who

00:26:35.650 --> 00:26:38.269
did such good work on The Company of Wolves.

00:26:38.630 --> 00:26:40.769
Stanley Kubrick wanted to hire him for Full Metal

00:26:40.769 --> 00:26:43.470
Jacket. And then shortly after that, Furst also

00:26:43.470 --> 00:26:46.670
did the great Oscar -winning production design

00:26:46.670 --> 00:26:50.349
for Tim Burton's Batman in 1989. very cool i

00:26:50.349 --> 00:26:51.970
didn't know any of that that's super interesting

00:26:51.970 --> 00:26:55.950
yeah that makes so much sense because the production

00:26:55.950 --> 00:26:58.289
design of the company of wolves was the first

00:26:58.289 --> 00:27:00.450
thing that stood out to me as soon as they especially

00:27:00.450 --> 00:27:02.230
when they as soon as they get into the forest

00:27:02.230 --> 00:27:05.849
i'm like okay show's over folks look at this

00:27:05.849 --> 00:27:08.730
thing look at this it's just if if film is a

00:27:08.730 --> 00:27:15.210
visual media this this is pure artwork absolutely

00:27:15.210 --> 00:27:18.450
yeah totally i think it's super important too

00:27:18.450 --> 00:27:21.339
to kind of underscores some of the themes. It

00:27:21.339 --> 00:27:24.140
immediately sets you up for being in a different

00:27:24.140 --> 00:27:27.660
world of kind of like dream logic and all these

00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:30.480
different things. I like that about it so much.

00:27:30.660 --> 00:27:34.880
It's really beautiful. Yeah. And especially on

00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:36.559
a small budget, we'll talk about that in a little

00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:38.799
bit here, but all of them did just incredible,

00:27:38.900 --> 00:27:42.119
incredible work on this movie. But now we can

00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:44.119
talk about the cast a little bit. Vincent, do

00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:47.230
you want to start us off? Sure. We have our main

00:27:47.230 --> 00:27:50.390
character, Rosaline, played by Sarah Patterson.

00:27:50.430 --> 00:27:52.910
She was 13 years old when the movie was made.

00:27:53.049 --> 00:27:55.069
The production had to make a special arrangement

00:27:55.069 --> 00:27:57.289
with her school to make her available for shooting.

00:27:57.410 --> 00:28:01.789
Yep, working with child actors, so it goes. Patterson

00:28:01.789 --> 00:28:04.230
had shown up to auditions to support a friend,

00:28:04.390 --> 00:28:07.750
ironically, not to audition herself. Neil Jordan

00:28:07.750 --> 00:28:10.349
had initially intended to get someone older for

00:28:10.349 --> 00:28:13.190
the role, but stated they couldn't overlook Patterson's

00:28:13.190 --> 00:28:16.000
talent. As a result, he rewrote some scenes to

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.559
tone down their sexual content. That's an interesting

00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:22.859
note that I clocked in the film. Continuing,

00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:25.799
after The Company of Wolves, Sarah Patterson

00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:28.119
appeared in a few more films, but largely retired

00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:30.579
from acting. You know who I thought she looked

00:28:30.579 --> 00:28:34.380
like? I need to look up the actress's name. But

00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:40.180
are you fans of 30 Rock? Yeah. You remember Jack's

00:28:40.180 --> 00:28:43.880
girlfriend with the bird bones? Yeah. Hollow

00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:46.660
bones. Yeah. Yes. Hollow bones. I forget her

00:28:46.660 --> 00:28:48.660
name, but I see her in all kinds of things. Yeah.

00:28:48.819 --> 00:28:51.619
Yeah. I think she's great. And I don't know,

00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:53.920
something about Sarah Patterson's face reminded

00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:58.319
me of hollow bones woman's face. And I was like,

00:28:58.359 --> 00:29:01.420
no, the age isn't going to match up, but, but

00:29:01.420 --> 00:29:04.299
they'd be wild if that was her. Yeah. I looked

00:29:04.299 --> 00:29:06.220
her up too, to be like, what else, you know,

00:29:06.259 --> 00:29:08.140
is she in anything? Like, what did she grow up

00:29:08.140 --> 00:29:11.849
into? But yeah. It's kind of a, I guess, just

00:29:11.849 --> 00:29:15.190
only seen her in that film. Yeah. Emily Mortimer

00:29:15.190 --> 00:29:20.890
is the name of the actor. Yeah. Yeah. I totally

00:29:20.890 --> 00:29:22.769
forgot about that character until you just brought

00:29:22.769 --> 00:29:24.809
her up right now, but I used to be a huge fan

00:29:24.809 --> 00:29:26.329
of 30 Rock, bringing back a lot of memories.

00:29:26.690 --> 00:29:31.809
Yeah. But the big name in this cast is the Angela

00:29:31.809 --> 00:29:36.450
Lansbury. Is she knighted? I don't know. I don't

00:29:36.450 --> 00:29:38.390
think so, but I could be wrong. Let me find out

00:29:38.390 --> 00:29:42.380
here. On our Wikipedia, yeah, Dame Angela Lansbury.

00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:46.839
My bad. Dame Angela. My apologies, Dame Angela.

00:29:48.220 --> 00:29:51.619
Disrespecting. Angela Lansbury lost her head

00:29:51.619 --> 00:29:56.680
for this film. She did. A very porcelain head,

00:29:56.819 --> 00:30:02.319
indeed. Yeah, she plays the granny, but Lansbury's

00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:04.619
prolific, acclaimed stage screen actress whose

00:30:04.619 --> 00:30:07.220
career spanned over 80 years. She only died like

00:30:07.220 --> 00:30:10.039
three years ago. Neil Jordan was especially inspired

00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:13.119
to cast her due to her performance in The Manchurian

00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:17.559
Candidate from 1962, which is great. Love that

00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:20.380
movie. Yeah. Yeah, I love seeing her in this

00:30:20.380 --> 00:30:22.819
movie. I think she just brings so much presence

00:30:22.819 --> 00:30:26.839
and like conservative authority that it really

00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.519
works well. Yeah. Yeah. You needed like a face

00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.240
you could like. I love the casting game, too.

00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:37.140
Like, who can we cast who's known? but who's

00:30:37.140 --> 00:30:40.440
not going to overshadow the film. Angela Lansbury.

00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:43.480
Yeah. She'll fit this role perfectly. If it was

00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:46.240
someone else, I don't know. You might, I don't

00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:48.019
know. It might over, she might steal the scene

00:30:48.019 --> 00:30:50.240
and you don't want that to happen either. Yeah.

00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:52.799
I read kind of a funny interview with Neil Jordan

00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:54.359
where he was talking about working with Angela

00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:56.559
Lansbury. And, you know, this again was like

00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:58.480
a low budget picture, kind of like a quick shooting

00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:00.980
schedule. And Lansbury was one of the bigger

00:31:00.980 --> 00:31:03.319
names in the cast. And the only time that she

00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:05.980
was not super happy about the production circumstances

00:31:05.980 --> 00:31:08.640
is the scene where she and Rosalina are in the

00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:12.240
church and they dropped a bunch of spiders on

00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:14.900
Angela Lansbury, like real live spiders. It's

00:31:14.900 --> 00:31:17.500
the only time that she like was very mad and

00:31:17.500 --> 00:31:19.000
like did not want to take part in the production.

00:31:19.299 --> 00:31:21.289
Otherwise, she was totally. on board i love that

00:31:21.289 --> 00:31:25.490
story i probably would not enjoy that either

00:31:25.490 --> 00:31:28.710
no nor would i no that was a creepy moment too

00:31:28.710 --> 00:31:36.269
yeah icky um oh sorry sorry i'm just gonna continue

00:31:36.269 --> 00:31:39.470
david warner plays rosaline's father another

00:31:39.470 --> 00:31:41.809
revered english actor whose career spanned about

00:31:41.809 --> 00:31:45.289
60 years david warner was the kind of actor you've

00:31:45.289 --> 00:31:47.890
probably seen in numerous other movies but not

00:31:48.299 --> 00:31:51.559
but might not know his name. He appeared in,

00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:54.980
for example, Tom Jones, Straw Dogs, The Omen,

00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:59.000
Time Bandits, Tron, Star Trek V, The Final Frontier,

00:31:59.140 --> 00:32:02.359
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, 2, The Secret of

00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:06.079
the Ooze. Just letting that one rest for a little

00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:10.779
bit. Titanic, Avatar, and many others. Yeah,

00:32:10.819 --> 00:32:12.799
this movie's also kind of a who's who of British

00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:16.319
actors of the time, of the 80s. I recognized

00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:19.809
a lot of their faces. yeah immediately when i

00:32:19.809 --> 00:32:23.750
saw i was like oh teenage mutant ninja turtles

00:32:23.750 --> 00:32:26.369
too like that's the guy it's the scientist like

00:32:26.369 --> 00:32:29.890
you know so that just shows my point of view

00:32:29.890 --> 00:32:31.670
is but yeah it's kind of cool to see the other

00:32:31.670 --> 00:32:33.849
one or to hear the other ones listed out yeah

00:32:33.849 --> 00:32:35.990
you just see him all over but you don't you know

00:32:35.990 --> 00:32:38.910
he's one of those good actors that you see but

00:32:38.910 --> 00:32:41.670
you don't necessarily know his name yeah yeah

00:32:41.670 --> 00:32:46.819
terrence stamp plays the devil An uncredited

00:32:46.819 --> 00:32:49.920
cameo from the legendary English actor. Oh, that's

00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:54.579
right. The devil rides up in a like 1930s coupe

00:32:54.579 --> 00:33:00.119
car. Very, very surreal moments. And speaking

00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:03.279
of surrealism, although, you know, Andy Warhol,

00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:06.420
you know, defies defies any any definitions.

00:33:06.740 --> 00:33:10.579
Andy Warhol was initially wanted by Neil Jordan

00:33:10.579 --> 00:33:13.420
to play the devil. Warhol was interested, but

00:33:13.420 --> 00:33:16.700
he had just been shot in NYC. Oh, my God. I didn't

00:33:16.700 --> 00:33:18.880
know that. And he was still recovering, so he

00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:21.740
was unable to travel for the production. That

00:33:21.740 --> 00:33:24.319
makes sense. Would have been cool to see him

00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:27.599
in this movie, though. Yeah. Surprising. I wanted

00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:30.960
to see a photo of him and Angela Lansbury, like,

00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:32.819
behind the scenes. That would have been cool.

00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:41.250
Yeah. Two titans of art. Yes. Steven Ray. As

00:33:41.250 --> 00:33:44.509
the young groom who has a gnarly werewolf transformation

00:33:44.509 --> 00:33:48.849
scene, this Irish actor also worked with Neil

00:33:48.849 --> 00:33:51.650
Jordan on nearly all his movies, including Angel,

00:33:51.769 --> 00:33:53.609
The Crying Game, Interview with the Vampire,

00:33:53.670 --> 00:33:57.549
Breakfast at Pluto, etc. I don't know how familiar

00:33:57.549 --> 00:33:59.390
you guys are with Stephen Ray, but I'm a big

00:33:59.390 --> 00:34:01.750
fan of his. He's great in Angel. He has like

00:34:01.750 --> 00:34:03.950
a nice presence. He has like a very limited role

00:34:03.950 --> 00:34:06.950
in this movie. But again, that werewolf transformation

00:34:06.950 --> 00:34:10.980
scene, so disgusting. I love it. Which one is

00:34:10.980 --> 00:34:14.480
he? He plays the young bridegroom? Yeah, the

00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:18.900
one who leaves the cabin on the wedding night

00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:21.559
and then never comes back until five or six years

00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:24.699
later, discovers that his wife has married somebody

00:34:24.699 --> 00:34:26.940
else and had kids with somebody else, and then

00:34:26.940 --> 00:34:29.739
almost immediately turns into a werewolf in maybe

00:34:29.739 --> 00:34:32.980
the goriest way possible. Yeah, that's right.

00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:39.409
How could I forget? There are lots of like classic

00:34:39.409 --> 00:34:41.670
famous werewolf transformation scenes throughout

00:34:41.670 --> 00:34:43.590
film history, of course, in American Werewolf

00:34:43.590 --> 00:34:45.869
in London, the howling being two good examples

00:34:45.869 --> 00:34:48.610
from around the same time period. But even though

00:34:48.610 --> 00:34:50.809
the Company of Wolves is not like strictly a

00:34:50.809 --> 00:34:52.989
werewolf movie, I do like the transformation

00:34:52.989 --> 00:34:55.570
scenes in this film a lot as well. Same too.

00:34:55.670 --> 00:34:58.769
They're so grotesque and just like the skin tears,

00:34:59.010 --> 00:35:02.929
the stretching, like, you know, it feels just

00:35:02.929 --> 00:35:05.579
really memorable and really cool. I love. Love

00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:07.880
them. Even if you're not into this, the symbolism,

00:35:07.900 --> 00:35:10.059
or if you saw it as a kid, I think it would still

00:35:10.059 --> 00:35:11.800
stick with you just because some of those visuals

00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:15.239
are so strong. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I agree.

00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:17.960
It's not talked about enough. I didn't, you know,

00:35:17.980 --> 00:35:19.800
we've talked about personal histories with this

00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:23.019
film. I was unaware of this film until really

00:35:23.019 --> 00:35:25.260
Matt, you brought it to my attention this past

00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:28.699
year, but you know, I'm a fan of werewolf movies

00:35:28.699 --> 00:35:31.400
and I feel like I've always heard about the same

00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:34.780
ones, especially from the eighties. This one

00:35:34.780 --> 00:35:37.780
seems to have missed my radar, but with these

00:35:37.780 --> 00:35:40.800
transformations, I'm kind of surprised I've never

00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:43.900
come across it in like, you know, werewolf transformation

00:35:43.900 --> 00:35:48.199
compilation scenes. Yeah. By the by, but no,

00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:50.860
these, these transformations are just as memorable

00:35:50.860 --> 00:35:54.920
as I think an American werewolf in London. Yeah,

00:35:54.980 --> 00:35:57.880
totally. Totally. Yeah. Different, distinct,

00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:00.860
you know, like they have their own flavor. I'll

00:36:00.860 --> 00:36:03.039
bet if you're. designing something like that

00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:05.000
or whoever's in charge of kind of bringing that

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:07.239
to life you know you want to think about like

00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:09.219
what are you going to use that people already

00:36:09.219 --> 00:36:11.920
know or assume about a transformation and what

00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:13.800
are you going to kind of create out of nothing

00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:16.699
and it's really neat in that way I enjoyed watching

00:36:16.699 --> 00:36:20.239
it very much yeah the really long animatronic

00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:22.900
tongue was amusing as well or tongues I guess

00:36:22.900 --> 00:36:28.420
plural I love all that stuff what I love is No

00:36:28.420 --> 00:36:31.380
two transformations in this movie are alike.

00:36:32.139 --> 00:36:35.739
I think we have at least three. Three that I'm

00:36:35.739 --> 00:36:39.380
thinking about. The bridegroom who returns. The

00:36:39.380 --> 00:36:45.260
wedding party. Yep. Where they all go turning

00:36:45.260 --> 00:36:49.940
into dog werewolves. And then the little red

00:36:49.940 --> 00:36:54.989
riding hood scene. Are there others? Yeah. Those

00:36:54.989 --> 00:36:56.969
are the three main ones. I feel like maybe there

00:36:56.969 --> 00:36:58.489
are a couple other moments where the transformation

00:36:58.489 --> 00:37:01.230
takes place off screen, but those are the three

00:37:01.230 --> 00:37:03.829
big ones that I remember. Yeah. My favorite,

00:37:03.929 --> 00:37:07.030
I'd love to hear your favorites, is the final

00:37:07.030 --> 00:37:11.030
one when the wolf comes out of the mouth. Yeah.

00:37:11.190 --> 00:37:15.250
You see the snout of the dog actor or the wolf

00:37:15.250 --> 00:37:18.849
actor coming out of the prosthetic head of the

00:37:18.849 --> 00:37:21.030
mouth. I was like, that is so iconic. I love

00:37:21.030 --> 00:37:24.599
that. Amazing. I love that shot. Yeah, me too.

00:37:24.699 --> 00:37:28.619
That's just so cool. Like it sticks in your mind

00:37:28.619 --> 00:37:31.760
for sure. Yeah. I would say maybe I slightly

00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:34.960
prefer the first one just because like, I can't

00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:36.320
remember what point in the movie that is, maybe

00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:38.059
20 minutes, something like that. But like up

00:37:38.059 --> 00:37:39.739
until that point, there's some kind of weird

00:37:39.739 --> 00:37:41.400
stuff. You don't know exactly what's happening,

00:37:41.500 --> 00:37:43.699
but there's not really any like explicit horror

00:37:43.699 --> 00:37:46.320
stuff until that moment. And then this guy is

00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:48.280
just ripping off his face. Like my jaw was on

00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:52.079
the floor during that scene. Yeah. But they're

00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:55.769
all good in their own way. Oh, yeah. Well, let's

00:37:55.769 --> 00:37:57.449
talk about the production backstory a little

00:37:57.449 --> 00:38:00.090
bit of The Company of Wolves. Okay, so some of

00:38:00.090 --> 00:38:02.730
the backstory here. Angela Carter's short story

00:38:02.730 --> 00:38:05.369
anthology, The Bloody Chamber, was published

00:38:05.369 --> 00:38:08.889
in 1979. She adapted the short story, The Company

00:38:08.889 --> 00:38:12.469
of Wolves, into a radio drama in 1980. So then

00:38:12.469 --> 00:38:15.829
in 1982, she and Jordan met in Dublin to discuss

00:38:15.829 --> 00:38:18.510
expanding the story and several others from The

00:38:18.510 --> 00:38:20.739
Bloody Chamber into a feature film. Carter and

00:38:20.739 --> 00:38:23.119
Jordan would have daily meetings to discuss the

00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:25.179
direction of the script and work on it separately

00:38:25.179 --> 00:38:28.199
to compare their work. A third draft of the screenplay

00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:32.500
was finished in July of 1983. Carter's screenplay

00:38:32.500 --> 00:38:35.099
differs from the final film in a few notable

00:38:35.099 --> 00:38:38.480
ways. So it features an additional story told

00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:42.159
by the huntsman, a different final tale that

00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:44.739
Rosaline tells the wolf, and a scene in which

00:38:44.739 --> 00:38:47.739
some animals congregate in a church. So that's

00:38:47.739 --> 00:38:51.230
interesting. The ending is also different. Carter's

00:38:51.230 --> 00:38:53.829
scripted ending involves Rosaline being swallowed

00:38:53.829 --> 00:38:57.130
up by the floor of her bedroom, but the production

00:38:57.130 --> 00:38:59.090
didn't have the budget for that. So they just

00:38:59.090 --> 00:39:00.650
couldn't make that happen, I guess. That would

00:39:00.650 --> 00:39:02.969
have been cool though. Yeah. That seemed very,

00:39:03.070 --> 00:39:05.909
sorry, Nightmare on Elm Street almost. Yeah.

00:39:05.969 --> 00:39:09.449
Like swallowed up by your surroundings. Yeah.

00:39:09.670 --> 00:39:12.230
Totally. The bedroom was so interesting. It really

00:39:12.230 --> 00:39:14.070
reminded me of the labyrinth, you know, just

00:39:14.070 --> 00:39:16.849
like all of her toys in there and, you know,

00:39:16.849 --> 00:39:19.030
kind of like. I don't know. It's just a neat,

00:39:19.130 --> 00:39:22.829
really neat little environment. All right. So

00:39:22.829 --> 00:39:25.389
getting back to it. So Jordan spent several weeks

00:39:25.389 --> 00:39:27.710
preparing hundreds of storyboard drawings to

00:39:27.710 --> 00:39:30.329
plan this visual look, which was integral in

00:39:30.329 --> 00:39:33.110
creating the heightened sense of reality, in

00:39:33.110 --> 00:39:37.349
his words. I'm sorry, in her words. Inspired

00:39:37.349 --> 00:39:40.050
by the works of the British painter Samuel Palmer

00:39:40.050 --> 00:39:43.349
and French illustrator Gustave Doré. Very cool.

00:39:43.449 --> 00:39:45.369
I'd like to look up some of that and see what

00:39:45.369 --> 00:39:48.619
it looks like. Aside from a few exterior shots,

00:39:48.860 --> 00:39:51.059
much of the film was shot in Shepperton Studios,

00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:54.400
England. Christopher Tucker, who also did the

00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:57.340
makeup for John Hurt in The Elephant Man, designed

00:39:57.340 --> 00:40:00.760
the werewolf transformation animatronics. The

00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:03.360
budget was only two million pounds, so creating

00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:06.000
the fantastic sets and costumes was a challenge.

00:40:06.340 --> 00:40:09.739
The low budget and concerns about cast safety.

00:40:10.269 --> 00:40:12.849
also meant that many of the wolves featured in

00:40:12.849 --> 00:40:15.449
the film were, in fact, Belgian shepherds whose

00:40:15.449 --> 00:40:18.090
fur was specially dyed, which I think we could

00:40:18.090 --> 00:40:23.070
all kind of tell. Yeah. Cute, cuddly wolves.

00:40:23.389 --> 00:40:28.150
Yeah. A bunch of wolves at a table. Learned from

00:40:28.150 --> 00:40:34.449
aristocrats. Right. Yeah, I had a few moments

00:40:34.449 --> 00:40:37.190
like that where, well, on the one hand, I do

00:40:37.190 --> 00:40:40.710
want to say the portrayal of the wolves, throughout

00:40:40.710 --> 00:40:43.550
this movie legitimately frightened me many times,

00:40:43.570 --> 00:40:46.610
the way they're shot and lighted with their glowing

00:40:46.610 --> 00:40:49.590
eyes. Then there were some scenes, like the dinner

00:40:49.590 --> 00:40:52.909
table, where I was like, aw, big fluffy puppies.

00:40:53.349 --> 00:40:57.289
Yeah. Who's a good boy? Yeah. I want to be at

00:40:57.289 --> 00:41:00.250
that wedding party. That looked fun. Same. It

00:41:00.250 --> 00:41:02.530
looked very 80s, too, just like the white and

00:41:02.530 --> 00:41:06.309
the pink draping. It felt very of the time, you

00:41:06.309 --> 00:41:07.889
know? It's funny when stuff like that happens.

00:41:07.710 --> 00:41:10.130
that sneaks in. It usually happens in makeup

00:41:10.130 --> 00:41:13.130
or hair or something. And, but yeah, I felt,

00:41:13.250 --> 00:41:17.210
felt it in that scene for sure. I was surprised

00:41:17.210 --> 00:41:19.449
to hear that they actually collaborated more

00:41:19.449 --> 00:41:22.210
than I anticipated on bringing that to life.

00:41:22.329 --> 00:41:25.409
You know, I thought it was so cool that a woman

00:41:25.409 --> 00:41:27.909
like had her hand in telling this story and it's

00:41:27.909 --> 00:41:31.010
super like important, you know, because knowing

00:41:31.010 --> 00:41:33.889
the first hands of like the anxieties and awakenings

00:41:33.889 --> 00:41:37.559
of growing up specifically about girlhood. is

00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:39.739
so important to the film. And that perspective

00:41:39.739 --> 00:41:42.179
just shapes every part of it. You know, the experience

00:41:42.179 --> 00:41:45.719
of like, realizing your body is being watched

00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:48.900
and judged and desired, you know, when you become

00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:52.099
a certain age or look a certain way. And I think

00:41:52.099 --> 00:41:55.619
women just know all about that. Yeah, Angela

00:41:55.619 --> 00:41:58.159
Carter is really fascinating. I tried to do a

00:41:58.159 --> 00:41:59.780
little bit of reading. I read some of The Bloody

00:41:59.780 --> 00:42:02.219
Chamber before tonight. She's just a fantastic

00:42:02.219 --> 00:42:04.639
writer. And there's an element of horror, of

00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:07.250
course, but I think I was struck by like the

00:42:07.250 --> 00:42:09.750
element of just pathos and sensitivity and empathy.

00:42:10.150 --> 00:42:12.110
Some of it's like a little bit extreme. There

00:42:12.110 --> 00:42:14.090
certainly are a lot of sexual themes in The Bloody

00:42:14.090 --> 00:42:16.849
Chamber in her book. But yeah, really incredible

00:42:16.849 --> 00:42:19.070
writer. And she and Neil Jordan got along really

00:42:19.070 --> 00:42:21.409
well and he wanted to work with her again. And

00:42:21.409 --> 00:42:23.670
then she died pretty young at like 47 years old

00:42:23.670 --> 00:42:25.409
from lung cancer. So they never got the chance

00:42:25.409 --> 00:42:28.159
to do that, sadly. Oh, shoot. Yeah, I wonder

00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:30.420
if we'll ever see, you know, some of that anthology

00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:33.440
come to life. You know, horror is such an anthology

00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:35.980
genre that it would be cool to see more of that.

00:42:37.420 --> 00:42:39.300
Definitely. And there are so many great women

00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:41.880
horror directors right now, like Arkasha Stevenson,

00:42:42.019 --> 00:42:45.940
Coralie Fargier, Julia Ducournau, both French

00:42:45.940 --> 00:42:48.139
women, and just so many examples. Like, I would

00:42:48.139 --> 00:42:50.380
love to see somebody, like, tackle that anthology,

00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:52.480
like you said. It'd be awesome. The Company of

00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:54.440
Wolves premiered at the Toronto Film Festival

00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:57.510
in September 1984. It was released in the UK

00:42:57.510 --> 00:42:59.530
later that month, and then in the United States

00:42:59.530 --> 00:43:03.130
in April 1985. The American distributor was Canon

00:43:03.130 --> 00:43:06.269
Films. That name might ring a bell. They released

00:43:06.269 --> 00:43:08.349
a lot of low -budget horror and action movies

00:43:08.349 --> 00:43:11.909
in the 1980s. So this was kind of a weird choice

00:43:11.909 --> 00:43:14.130
for them to distribute the movie. Their marketing

00:43:14.130 --> 00:43:16.469
strategy definitely emphasized the horror elements

00:43:16.469 --> 00:43:19.090
of The Company of Wolves, and maybe not so much

00:43:19.090 --> 00:43:22.090
the art, surrealism, coming -of -age elements.

00:43:23.309 --> 00:43:26.010
The film was mildly successful at the box office,

00:43:26.130 --> 00:43:28.869
making almost $6 million on a budget of about

00:43:28.869 --> 00:43:31.769
$2 million. Reviews were mostly positive. There

00:43:31.769 --> 00:43:34.909
were some mixed reviews, some criticisms of the

00:43:34.909 --> 00:43:37.570
violence and the underdeveloped characters, but

00:43:37.570 --> 00:43:40.449
mostly pretty solid reviews for this film. Neil

00:43:40.449 --> 00:43:42.670
Jordan won Best Director from the London Critics

00:43:42.670 --> 00:43:44.590
Circle Film Awards, and the movie has gone on

00:43:44.590 --> 00:43:46.909
to gain quite a cult following ever since its

00:43:46.909 --> 00:43:50.130
release. Cool. Yeah, I definitely had the vibe

00:43:50.130 --> 00:43:52.210
of... you know, thinking of it, that it looked

00:43:52.210 --> 00:43:54.869
like an old Hammer film. Like, I even said that

00:43:54.869 --> 00:43:56.809
to my partner when I was watching it. It's really

00:43:56.809 --> 00:44:01.070
cool. Yeah, for sure, yeah. Yeah, I know the

00:44:01.070 --> 00:44:04.210
Hammer films were one kind of inspiration, but

00:44:04.210 --> 00:44:06.210
Roger Corman productions were another big one

00:44:06.210 --> 00:44:08.409
that Neil Jordan mentioned, which I think is

00:44:08.409 --> 00:44:10.349
so cool. I love those Roger Corman movies, the

00:44:10.349 --> 00:44:12.710
fantastic sets and costumes and the bright colors

00:44:12.710 --> 00:44:14.510
and everything. I think you can see that here

00:44:14.510 --> 00:44:18.110
as well. Absolutely. Well, now, friends, it is

00:44:18.110 --> 00:44:21.230
time once again for our sponsor break. Camp Kaiju

00:44:21.230 --> 00:44:23.050
is sponsored by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack,

00:44:23.170 --> 00:44:25.650
powered by Coldwell Banker Realty, your source

00:44:25.650 --> 00:44:28.230
for real estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping

00:44:28.230 --> 00:44:30.389
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Reach out to the Zach Pack today for real estate

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services, follow the Zach Pack on social media,

00:44:35.750 --> 00:44:38.489
and contact the Zach Pack for investment opportunities.

00:44:38.949 --> 00:44:42.590
Link in the show notes. Vincent, do we have anything

00:44:42.590 --> 00:44:46.829
in Minya's mailbox tonight? We do, and we have,

00:44:46.869 --> 00:44:50.699
um... We have quite a few. We have one, two,

00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:55.280
three, four, five messages from Don. Super fan,

00:44:55.440 --> 00:45:00.119
Don. He's written emails. He's commented on Spotify,

00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:03.340
on Instagram. And we haven't, Don, I know you're

00:45:03.340 --> 00:45:05.340
listening. Thank you. I know we haven't gotten

00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:08.099
to your comments yet, but I want to read at least

00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:11.840
two of them. So listeners out there, on our Swamp

00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:17.019
Thing episode, Don wrote on Spotify, Hey, campers.

00:45:17.340 --> 00:45:19.599
Here's a semi -useless, potentially completely

00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:23.380
useless bit of trivia. Burton Cummings, lead

00:45:23.380 --> 00:45:26.380
singer of The Guess Who, American Woman, Laughing,

00:45:26.659 --> 00:45:30.780
Undone, Share the Land, etc., etc., is an avid

00:45:30.780 --> 00:45:34.219
DC Comics collector. He has stated, if memory

00:45:34.219 --> 00:45:37.420
serves correct, that Swamp Thing is his favorite,

00:45:37.500 --> 00:45:40.719
or at least one of his favorites. No word on

00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:43.780
how he felt about the movie. A Bernie Wrightson

00:45:43.780 --> 00:45:49.159
fan, then. The artist who did the comics. You're

00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:53.059
a big fan, Naomi, right? I am. Yeah. I have two

00:45:53.059 --> 00:45:55.360
of his prints in my house and one of them is

00:45:55.360 --> 00:45:59.300
signed. He does beautiful line work, very expressive,

00:45:59.639 --> 00:46:02.820
very intricate. My partner and I have a very

00:46:02.820 --> 00:46:05.699
large art collection and that's probably the

00:46:05.699 --> 00:46:07.880
cream of our collection are those two pieces.

00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:13.210
So yeah, big fan. That's cool. Yeah. I have to

00:46:13.210 --> 00:46:15.449
admit, comic book art is like a big blind spot

00:46:15.449 --> 00:46:16.889
for me. It's something I've always wanted to

00:46:16.889 --> 00:46:18.309
get more into, but haven't really checked it

00:46:18.309 --> 00:46:20.730
out yet. So I might need to get some more recommendations

00:46:20.730 --> 00:46:23.469
from you at some point. Cool. Well, I need to

00:46:23.469 --> 00:46:25.889
get some Swamp Thing in my comic book collection

00:46:25.889 --> 00:46:28.489
because I was always so focused on traditional

00:46:28.489 --> 00:46:32.489
superheroes that I'm sure I just overlook Swamp

00:46:32.489 --> 00:46:37.650
Thing, which is a shame on me. Okay. One more

00:46:37.650 --> 00:46:41.210
comment from Don. in regards to our episode on

00:46:41.210 --> 00:46:44.750
The Island of Dr. Moreau. Great show, fellas.

00:46:44.889 --> 00:46:47.289
I did not realize how convoluted the backstory

00:46:47.289 --> 00:46:50.070
was on this film. You mentioned your age when

00:46:50.070 --> 00:46:52.269
you saw this one, that I was about the same age

00:46:52.269 --> 00:46:55.090
as you guys when I saw the 70s version of Dr.

00:46:55.309 --> 00:46:59.949
Moreau. That film was interesting. I love a review.

00:47:00.070 --> 00:47:02.809
It's like, that movie is interesting. Good acting,

00:47:02.989 --> 00:47:05.550
bit over the top at times, pretty campy in the

00:47:05.550 --> 00:47:08.480
makeup. of the island's inhabitants hope you

00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:12.460
review that one sometime and you saw that one

00:47:12.460 --> 00:47:16.699
right vincent the 77 version i did i did it's

00:47:16.699 --> 00:47:19.260
it's i don't i don't find it as a compelling

00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:23.219
a watch as honestly the other two adaptations

00:47:23.219 --> 00:47:26.340
of the story but there is one sequence speaking

00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:31.440
of of animals gone wild The final 30 minutes

00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:34.840
of that, Moreau, is animals busting loose and

00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:37.099
mauling everybody they can find. It's pretty

00:47:37.099 --> 00:47:41.079
great. Added to the watch list. Another one.

00:47:41.179 --> 00:47:44.340
Yeah. Sorry, Don. I just saw this. He goes on

00:47:44.340 --> 00:47:47.199
to continue. I got interested in the movie when

00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:49.679
someone gave me a copy of the Marvel Comics adaptation

00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:53.219
of the film. I recently bought a copy of the

00:47:53.219 --> 00:47:57.460
book, which is likely next on my reading list.

00:47:58.360 --> 00:48:01.429
Wow. Nice. We're talking about comic books and

00:48:01.429 --> 00:48:05.230
and nature gone wild here tonight, as well as

00:48:05.230 --> 00:48:07.610
the company of wolves. I love it. Yeah. All over

00:48:07.610 --> 00:48:11.389
the place. Well, thank you, Don. And keep them

00:48:11.389 --> 00:48:13.409
coming. We appreciate it. We'll read more next

00:48:13.409 --> 00:48:16.630
time. Listeners out there, you do the same. Leave

00:48:16.630 --> 00:48:20.110
us a voicemail if you'd rather kind of expand

00:48:20.110 --> 00:48:24.090
upon your your comments via the voice. We're

00:48:24.090 --> 00:48:28.070
happy to play that. And yeah. And then. We're

00:48:28.070 --> 00:48:29.309
going to, we're going to hear from Peter Laurie

00:48:29.309 --> 00:48:32.170
here. He's doing all right. So I hear, I don't

00:48:32.170 --> 00:48:34.570
know, Matt, you live with the guy, but. Does

00:48:34.570 --> 00:48:37.510
not sound like he's doing all right. Yeah. From

00:48:37.510 --> 00:48:39.630
my perspective. Yeah. Right. I mean, there's

00:48:39.630 --> 00:48:41.630
some weird noises in there sometimes. Have you

00:48:41.630 --> 00:48:44.829
talked to him? No. Things are a little strained

00:48:44.829 --> 00:48:48.269
right now between us. So, you know, I maybe knock

00:48:48.269 --> 00:48:49.849
on the door a couple of times just to make sure

00:48:49.849 --> 00:48:52.230
he's still alive, but that's about it. You're

00:48:52.230 --> 00:48:56.550
a pal. You're a pal. And roommate. Well, he's

00:48:56.550 --> 00:48:58.309
also not the best roommate in the world. I'm

00:48:58.309 --> 00:49:00.489
just going to throw that out there. What does

00:49:00.489 --> 00:49:04.530
he do? Oh, what doesn't he do? There's the stench

00:49:04.530 --> 00:49:07.289
of fish heads all over the place. There are weird

00:49:07.289 --> 00:49:10.150
stains all over his room, which no human body

00:49:10.150 --> 00:49:13.429
can emit. I mean, just weird mutterings in his

00:49:13.429 --> 00:49:16.170
high -pitched German voice. I think he has some

00:49:16.170 --> 00:49:18.269
bad nightmares because I hear him tossing and

00:49:18.269 --> 00:49:20.710
turning all the time. I can't get a moment's

00:49:20.710 --> 00:49:23.679
rest around here, you know? Well, I hope you

00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:26.800
figure that out soon. In the meantime, join him

00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:31.219
as he watches the 1943 Poverty Row picture known

00:49:31.219 --> 00:49:35.199
as Dead Men Walk. And I have not seen this film,

00:49:35.300 --> 00:49:39.079
but I would love to. It is about a small town

00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:42.400
doctor's twin returning from the grave to seek

00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:47.039
vengeance. Wow. I really hope it's as good as

00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:50.789
it sounds. There was a remake with Sean Penn

00:49:50.789 --> 00:49:54.110
and Susan Sarandon, right? Oh, that was it? Yeah.

00:49:54.329 --> 00:49:59.409
That's the same story, I think. Any new twin

00:49:59.409 --> 00:50:01.110
movies, though? You know, I was thinking about

00:50:01.110 --> 00:50:04.150
that with like Sinners and stuff. Like, I want

00:50:04.150 --> 00:50:06.989
to do like a twin marathon. I'm going to throw

00:50:06.989 --> 00:50:10.190
that one into the mix. Would you include doppelgangers

00:50:10.190 --> 00:50:15.150
in that? Yes, I would include. Yeah. Yeah, I

00:50:15.150 --> 00:50:18.070
would include doppelgangers, I think. yeah yeah

00:50:18.070 --> 00:50:22.070
what is that one film uh the prestige that's

00:50:22.070 --> 00:50:26.150
kind of a doppelganger yeah that's a fascinating

00:50:26.150 --> 00:50:30.630
subgenre yeah yeah a lot to be said there i think

00:50:30.630 --> 00:50:32.630
yeah there's an older one called dead ringer

00:50:32.630 --> 00:50:34.929
not the cronenberg movie but the older one with

00:50:34.929 --> 00:50:36.869
betty davis i think where she plays twins that

00:50:36.869 --> 00:50:39.789
movie's fantastic love that one i gotta add that

00:50:39.789 --> 00:50:57.869
cool lots of good ones out there Welcome to Poverty

00:50:57.869 --> 00:51:01.329
Row Studios on the other side of Hollywood. Where

00:51:01.329 --> 00:51:04.030
the stars were dimmer and the red carpets dripped

00:51:04.030 --> 00:51:06.969
with blood. Together we will watch the best of

00:51:06.969 --> 00:51:09.829
the worst. Movies known for their limited budgets,

00:51:10.090 --> 00:51:13.369
outlandish concepts, and questionable performances.

00:51:13.929 --> 00:51:17.230
But with enough haunted houses, zombies, ape

00:51:17.230 --> 00:51:19.829
men, and devil bats to keep you up at night.

00:51:20.230 --> 00:51:24.000
This is the Poverty Row Picture Show. I dare

00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:31.059
you to sleep through these nightmares. Hello

00:51:31.059 --> 00:51:36.679
there. I am Peter Lorre. You may remember me

00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:41.059
from such cinematic classics as Quicksand and

00:51:41.059 --> 00:51:46.219
My Favorite Brunette. Truly standouts in my long

00:51:46.219 --> 00:51:49.900
and varied career. But never did I have the pleasure

00:51:49.900 --> 00:51:54.300
of playing in a poverty row horror film. Lugosi,

00:51:54.500 --> 00:51:58.559
George Zuko, John Carradine, sure. But did they

00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:02.239
ever call Mr. Laurie? Well, they did as a matter

00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:05.000
of fact, but alas, I was a busy bee elsewhere.

00:52:05.739 --> 00:52:09.260
Little did I know that some 60 years after my

00:52:09.260 --> 00:52:12.119
one -way ticket to Terminal Dreamland, I would

00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:14.980
be resurrected by two podcasters in Minnesota.

00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:18.500
Oh, they would force me to review classic monster

00:52:18.500 --> 00:52:21.960
movies in exchange for my eternal soul. But the

00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:25.480
gig was too good to pass up. And so, in the end,

00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:29.079
here I remain, a willing player in the sums of

00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:33.699
Hollywood infamy. And as a bonus, Matthew has

00:52:33.699 --> 00:52:37.440
opened up his home to me. He feeds me, irons

00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:40.400
my clothes. and generally worship the ground

00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:44.000
I float above. But whatever he tells you, I am

00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:48.420
an outstanding roommate. Oh, sure, I may be growing

00:52:48.420 --> 00:52:51.920
a large, carnivorous lilac that may be our collective

00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:54.579
doom, but that is second banana to tonight's

00:52:54.579 --> 00:52:58.719
poverty row horror film, Dead Men Walk, about

00:52:58.719 --> 00:53:02.159
a doctor who battles his twin brother, now returned

00:53:02.159 --> 00:53:05.800
from the grave as a vampire, helping the vampire

00:53:05.800 --> 00:53:09.099
twin feast on the innocent. His horror icon,

00:53:09.380 --> 00:53:13.260
the one and only Dwight Frye, essentially reprising

00:53:13.260 --> 00:53:16.380
his Renfield from a decade prior. But this one

00:53:16.380 --> 00:53:19.860
in Dead Man Walk would be among Mr. Frye's last

00:53:19.860 --> 00:53:24.539
roles, and he delivers a sensationally sadistic

00:53:24.539 --> 00:53:29.719
performance. As a whole, however, it is as if

00:53:29.719 --> 00:53:32.679
the director took the title Dead Man Walk too

00:53:32.679 --> 00:53:36.210
literally. Most of the cast sleepwalks through

00:53:36.210 --> 00:53:38.650
the picture with little visual excitement to

00:53:38.650 --> 00:53:42.590
keep your attention. Now again, Dwight Frye.

00:53:43.670 --> 00:53:46.590
That man could act and I will pour one out for

00:53:46.590 --> 00:53:51.889
him. Oh no, no, no, lilac. It is only leftover

00:53:51.889 --> 00:53:55.670
fish head juice that I pour out. I did not know

00:53:55.670 --> 00:53:58.630
you were saving that. I, I, I, lilac, lilac,

00:53:58.630 --> 00:54:07.190
stay down. Easy girl, easy. No. Jeez. Lilac.

00:54:07.809 --> 00:54:12.670
You are... You are crushing my bones. Please,

00:54:12.670 --> 00:54:16.909
for the love of Zuko, put me down. You are...

00:54:16.909 --> 00:54:23.030
You are too powerful. Listeners, help me. Help.

00:54:23.190 --> 00:54:28.170
It is not my time. I must review our next film.

00:54:28.409 --> 00:54:34.610
A ditty called The Ape Man. About... Bela Lugosi

00:54:34.610 --> 00:54:48.650
turning into a gorilla. Keep off the moors. Stick

00:54:48.650 --> 00:54:50.949
to the roads. The best of luck. Thanks for the

00:54:50.949 --> 00:54:53.949
ride, sir. You have lovely sheep. Northern England

00:54:53.949 --> 00:55:00.170
first. Italy later. Right. Excuse me. What's

00:55:00.170 --> 00:55:10.659
that scar on the wall for? Did you hear that?

00:55:12.500 --> 00:55:20.559
Listen. It must go to them. It's circling us.

00:55:20.820 --> 00:55:23.179
No one brought them here. No one wanted them

00:55:23.179 --> 00:55:26.679
here. Sounds far away. Not far enough. Come on.

00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:40.699
It's in God's hands now. Stay on the road. Keep

00:55:40.699 --> 00:55:43.900
clear of the moors. For now, we'll turn it back

00:55:43.900 --> 00:55:46.460
to The Company of Wolves. Let's dive into the

00:55:46.460 --> 00:55:49.780
themes of this movie. And I think there are a

00:55:49.780 --> 00:55:52.960
lot of them. Thematically, this movie is filled

00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:55.219
to the brim. Might be a little bit ambiguous

00:55:55.219 --> 00:55:57.420
what exactly it's trying to say at times, but

00:55:57.420 --> 00:55:59.920
fascinating, fascinating movie thematically.

00:56:00.739 --> 00:56:03.440
Well, to me, it just comes down to, like I said

00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:07.469
before, you know, the... the experience of realizing

00:56:07.469 --> 00:56:10.869
you're being seen differently by men. And she

00:56:10.869 --> 00:56:14.710
kind of goes through that and is very like processing

00:56:14.710 --> 00:56:17.090
all of that throughout the film. She's not a

00:56:17.090 --> 00:56:19.929
passive character and I like that. And the film

00:56:19.929 --> 00:56:23.190
captures that shift and it's quite unsettling.

00:56:23.329 --> 00:56:25.670
I think that that's the main thing that sticks

00:56:25.670 --> 00:56:29.699
with me thematically. We can't help but also

00:56:29.699 --> 00:56:33.260
see that Little Red Riding Hood is kind of a

00:56:33.260 --> 00:56:36.179
part of that. And maybe there's like a puberty

00:56:36.179 --> 00:56:40.119
metaphor there as well. But yeah, a lot of themes

00:56:40.119 --> 00:56:42.920
for sure. Definitely. I would just add to that

00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:45.300
that in Angela Carter's original short story,

00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:48.019
she definitely makes it clear that the young

00:56:48.019 --> 00:56:50.739
women that she writes about are going through

00:56:50.739 --> 00:56:52.860
puberty and experiencing these changes with their

00:56:52.860 --> 00:56:55.420
bodies and don't initially know how to deal with

00:56:55.420 --> 00:56:57.900
it and then kind of... In a similar way to the

00:56:57.900 --> 00:56:59.880
protagonist of The Company of Wolves, kind of

00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:02.900
have a difficult, potentially liberating, but

00:57:02.900 --> 00:57:06.000
also somewhat frightening experience with that.

00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:07.340
And I think that comes through in the movie as

00:57:07.340 --> 00:57:10.559
well. Totally. It's so interesting that it's

00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:13.059
frightening, but these wolves are summoned in

00:57:13.059 --> 00:57:15.619
her imagination. You know, the story unfolds

00:57:15.619 --> 00:57:18.960
like nesting dolls almost, where, you know, there's

00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:21.119
a story and then there's, or there's a dream

00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:23.099
and then there's a story in that and then another

00:57:23.099 --> 00:57:26.340
story. You know, it's very interesting. Yeah,

00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:30.679
it's it's it's I was going to say, oh, and she

00:57:30.679 --> 00:57:34.980
becomes a wolf at the end. Well, at the end of,

00:57:35.059 --> 00:57:39.460
I guess, her dream sequence where, you know,

00:57:39.460 --> 00:57:41.719
where the lines are blurred, but we know we're

00:57:41.719 --> 00:57:45.440
within her dream dream. She becomes a wolf and

00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:47.679
runs off with the other one, which I found a

00:57:47.679 --> 00:57:49.639
very I mean, that whole scene, like the Little

00:57:49.639 --> 00:57:52.280
Red Riding Hood scene, I guess I felt challenged

00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:55.769
by what. what am i supposed to get out of this

00:57:55.769 --> 00:57:59.429
scene because he's he's no pun intended a predator

00:57:59.429 --> 00:58:04.369
and he's killed granny and he's and he's threatening

00:58:04.369 --> 00:58:08.929
her sexually and yet she runs off with him by

00:58:08.929 --> 00:58:11.269
the end she feels sympathy for him i guess like

00:58:11.269 --> 00:58:14.969
i guess that was played well where where she

00:58:14.969 --> 00:58:18.050
looks out the window she sees the other wolves

00:58:18.050 --> 00:58:22.010
of the pack and she feels sorry for for the wolf

00:58:22.010 --> 00:58:24.320
and she has a I guess a change of heart in that

00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:27.300
way. I don't really have any takes or, you know,

00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:29.440
I don't, I haven't come down hard on any one

00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:30.880
way. I think that's kind of the point of the

00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:33.460
film too. Like to just leave you with a lot of

00:58:33.460 --> 00:58:37.940
open -ended questions, like to grapple with,

00:58:38.079 --> 00:58:42.139
which is legitimate. And I know it's not everyone's

00:58:42.139 --> 00:58:46.079
favorite form of storytelling, but I do appreciate

00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:48.619
that and respect that. Sorry, I went off on a

00:58:48.619 --> 00:58:50.440
little bit of a tangent there. Getting back to

00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:52.559
the themes, you're talking about the, like the

00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:57.900
sexual awakening and the puberty from the, from

00:58:57.900 --> 00:59:00.539
the girl's point of view, maybe it's because

00:59:00.539 --> 00:59:05.460
I am a man. I was noticing that and all the men

00:59:05.460 --> 00:59:11.079
in her story and how they all treat her, whether

00:59:11.079 --> 00:59:14.500
like there's the amorous boy, which is a great

00:59:14.500 --> 00:59:17.019
name for that character. Was laughing so hard

00:59:17.019 --> 00:59:19.659
at that in the credits. Oh, I was watching the

00:59:19.659 --> 00:59:23.739
movie with subtitles on. It said Amorous Boy,

00:59:23.940 --> 00:59:26.380
and I thought, is that like a weird Tubi thing?

00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:32.179
Is that really the character's name? I also watched

00:59:32.179 --> 00:59:34.380
it with captions on Amazon Prime, and it also

00:59:34.380 --> 00:59:36.340
said Amorous Boy, so that's just what he's known

00:59:36.340 --> 00:59:38.760
as. Yeah, I love it. He's a new superhero. I

00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:40.679
wonder if he uses that to get girls, you know?

00:59:40.719 --> 00:59:44.639
I was the Amorous Boy in Company of Wolves. Well,

00:59:44.659 --> 00:59:47.840
then they say, in what movie? And then he shows

00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:52.260
them, and that's where he's like, okay. is is

00:59:52.260 --> 00:59:55.219
she a keeper or not how's she gonna react to

00:59:55.219 --> 00:59:59.679
the company of wolves it's a good test yeah but

00:59:59.679 --> 01:00:01.679
anyways what i was saying was whether it's the

01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:05.179
amorous boy who i i believe is largely innocent

01:00:05.179 --> 01:00:09.199
like he's just a young amorous boy who has a

01:00:09.199 --> 01:00:11.760
crush on a girl but then you have more again

01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:15.300
threatening levels of romantic interest and sexual

01:00:15.300 --> 01:00:19.610
interest from older men Regardless, all the men

01:00:19.610 --> 01:00:25.469
see her as an object of desire. And I just noted

01:00:25.469 --> 01:00:30.110
the different prisms of that desire and her place

01:00:30.110 --> 01:00:33.769
as an object in that. When it speaks to kind

01:00:33.769 --> 01:00:36.449
of a toxic patriarchy, there's a moment where

01:00:36.449 --> 01:00:39.570
that boy is talking, his father's kind of egging

01:00:39.570 --> 01:00:41.969
him on a little bit. And I think that that's

01:00:41.969 --> 01:00:45.010
pretty yucky. On one hand, we've got the granny

01:00:45.010 --> 01:00:49.610
who's kind of like, And using her fear and her

01:00:49.610 --> 01:00:52.369
trauma to kind of try to, you know, warn her

01:00:52.369 --> 01:00:54.869
essentially to, you know, what men are like.

01:00:54.969 --> 01:00:56.889
And then on the other side, we've got the amorous

01:00:56.889 --> 01:01:00.010
boy who's being egged on, doesn't even quite

01:01:00.010 --> 01:01:01.789
know what to do, you know, following her into

01:01:01.789 --> 01:01:05.010
the forest, being super pushy and weird. Yeah,

01:01:05.030 --> 01:01:08.590
it was just interesting how women get different

01:01:08.590 --> 01:01:13.329
advice than men get in coming of age times, or

01:01:13.329 --> 01:01:17.960
at least have historically. Yeah. Totally, yeah.

01:01:18.440 --> 01:01:22.980
And I admire the movie for definitely having

01:01:22.980 --> 01:01:27.239
those themes and also maybe suggesting that Rosaline's

01:01:27.239 --> 01:01:30.179
awareness of herself, of her body, and certainly

01:01:30.179 --> 01:01:32.780
how precarious of a position that is, but also

01:01:32.780 --> 01:01:35.639
how potentially empowering that is. That's what

01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:37.460
Angela Carter said about it. That's what she

01:01:37.460 --> 01:01:39.760
considered to be. Part of the theme of the movie,

01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:42.119
not just the threat of sexuality, but also the

01:01:42.119 --> 01:01:44.039
empowerment of sexuality. She wrote about that

01:01:44.039 --> 01:01:46.300
a lot. And I think we see that in the film as

01:01:46.300 --> 01:01:49.539
well. So it's kind of flip sides of the same

01:01:49.539 --> 01:01:51.500
coin. It's the good and the bad. It's the horror

01:01:51.500 --> 01:01:55.460
and possibly the liberation of it, if that's

01:01:55.460 --> 01:01:57.519
the right word. And that's kind of why I admire,

01:01:57.800 --> 01:01:59.539
one of the reasons I admire this movie. Like

01:01:59.539 --> 01:02:02.230
it's not... It's not, like, pigeonholed into

01:02:02.230 --> 01:02:04.429
one reading, you know? That's certainly the way

01:02:04.429 --> 01:02:07.050
Jordan and Carter intended it. Like, they wanted

01:02:07.050 --> 01:02:10.130
it to be sort of, you know, deconstructing fairy

01:02:10.130 --> 01:02:12.449
tales but not really having, like, an absolute

01:02:12.449 --> 01:02:15.389
clear message. And sometimes I'm not okay with

01:02:15.389 --> 01:02:17.130
that, but I think in this case it works really

01:02:17.130 --> 01:02:20.170
well because the experience of puberty and coming

01:02:20.170 --> 01:02:22.789
of age and sexuality is just such a strange,

01:02:22.829 --> 01:02:25.369
disorienting time. I think the movie kind of

01:02:25.369 --> 01:02:28.650
tries to include all that in very weird, surreal,

01:02:28.889 --> 01:02:31.800
symbolic ways. Totally. And I think it's just

01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:34.340
kind of marks that bitter passage of time, you

01:02:34.340 --> 01:02:37.340
know, like, you become a certain age, you can't

01:02:37.340 --> 01:02:39.739
go back and you sort of reflect on your childhood

01:02:39.739 --> 01:02:42.260
and have this fear of what's next, you know,

01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:44.280
and I think that's a big part of her becoming

01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:47.320
a wolf, you know, is that she is you can't put

01:02:47.320 --> 01:02:49.360
the genie back in the bottle, so to speak, you

01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:52.239
know, you just keep going forward. And I almost

01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:54.179
wonder, though, you talked about fairy tales

01:02:54.179 --> 01:02:57.079
in your research with her work. Does she do that

01:02:57.079 --> 01:02:59.900
frequently with kind of deconstructing kind of

01:03:00.380 --> 01:03:02.559
getting to the heart of a fairy tale and like

01:03:02.559 --> 01:03:05.539
what those themes are. Yeah. From, you know,

01:03:05.579 --> 01:03:08.380
I wasn't able to read all of these, like, you

01:03:08.380 --> 01:03:10.380
know, all the, all of her books in their entirety,

01:03:10.400 --> 01:03:12.119
but not only in the bloody chamber, but also

01:03:12.119 --> 01:03:14.519
in another book called, I think the black Venus,

01:03:14.699 --> 01:03:16.900
I'm pretty sure is another anthology of kind

01:03:16.900 --> 01:03:19.719
of fairy tale folklore stories that again, are

01:03:19.719 --> 01:03:22.280
kind of flipped on their head. And some of the

01:03:22.280 --> 01:03:25.719
sexual themes, the themes of power and desire

01:03:25.719 --> 01:03:27.739
certainly come through from what I've read in

01:03:27.739 --> 01:03:31.500
that book as well. She has a book -length essay.

01:03:31.659 --> 01:03:33.280
Let's see if I can remember the title of it.

01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:36.480
It's like the Saadian woman, meaning like the

01:03:36.480 --> 01:03:39.260
Marquis de Sade's depiction of women and the

01:03:39.260 --> 01:03:42.239
ideology of pornography. Angela Carter wrote

01:03:42.239 --> 01:03:44.820
that book as well. I read a little bit of that,

01:03:44.880 --> 01:03:46.840
which is fascinating. It was pretty controversial

01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:49.539
because it kind of argues that the Marquis de

01:03:49.539 --> 01:03:52.280
Sade's seemingly very brutal and misogynistic

01:03:52.280 --> 01:03:56.429
depictions of women could be seen. Angela Carter

01:03:56.429 --> 01:03:59.349
is making this argument as liberating because

01:03:59.349 --> 01:04:02.650
they are able to sort of be amoral. They're not

01:04:02.650 --> 01:04:06.150
sort of constricted into these codes of propriety

01:04:06.150 --> 01:04:09.769
or being a good person that, you know, in de

01:04:09.769 --> 01:04:11.570
Sade's era was seen as like how women should

01:04:11.570 --> 01:04:13.710
behave. So I've read a little bit of that book

01:04:13.710 --> 01:04:16.429
by Angela Carter, which is fascinating. You know,

01:04:16.489 --> 01:04:20.050
from what I read, it kind of, a lot of feminists

01:04:20.050 --> 01:04:21.690
like took issue with it. And then some other

01:04:21.690 --> 01:04:23.510
feminists were like, this is a brilliant work

01:04:23.510 --> 01:04:26.510
of theory and philosophy. So yeah, a difficult

01:04:26.510 --> 01:04:29.250
work that I haven't read all of, but really fascinating.

01:04:29.269 --> 01:04:31.130
And I think some of those ideas make their way

01:04:31.130 --> 01:04:36.230
into The Company of Wolves as well. Yeah. I love

01:04:36.230 --> 01:04:40.429
that. This is an education for me in this film

01:04:40.429 --> 01:04:43.210
and Angela Carter. I definitely want to check

01:04:43.210 --> 01:04:47.530
out some of her work. And I think the word difficult,

01:04:47.869 --> 01:04:51.210
like this movie is difficult to critique, I think,

01:04:51.210 --> 01:04:54.389
in a traditional way. And it's obviously by design.

01:04:55.500 --> 01:04:59.119
I just want to go back. Matt, you had read about

01:04:59.119 --> 01:05:01.480
the release and legacy and some of the criticisms

01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:04.460
at the time talking about underdeveloped characters.

01:05:04.780 --> 01:05:07.420
I guess I could see where those critics are coming

01:05:07.420 --> 01:05:11.260
from. But at the same time, A, I think the characters

01:05:11.260 --> 01:05:14.019
are developed enough and B, they're developed

01:05:14.019 --> 01:05:16.880
for what they need for what this movie is. If

01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:21.860
the movie is a take on fairy tales. well, you

01:05:21.860 --> 01:05:23.579
know, you're only going to get so much character

01:05:23.579 --> 01:05:26.559
development in a fairy tale. They're short by

01:05:26.559 --> 01:05:29.619
design. So I don't know about that criticism,

01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:32.159
but I, but I think it's good that critics should

01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:35.539
be challenged by this film, I guess is my point.

01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:38.739
Yeah. And it's her dream too. You know, how,

01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:41.800
how well developed is anyone's dream if we're

01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:45.920
getting literal, you know? I had the same reaction.

01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:47.900
Like, I feel like the characters are archetypes

01:05:47.900 --> 01:05:49.920
and symbols, but not real human beings, you know?

01:05:50.719 --> 01:05:52.900
Which is, you know, I don't know. Sometimes I

01:05:52.900 --> 01:05:55.679
feel like critics, we do this too. We're just

01:05:55.679 --> 01:05:57.659
like, sometimes you just like, you feel, you

01:05:57.659 --> 01:05:59.460
feel like you have to come up with something

01:05:59.460 --> 01:06:03.820
to critique. Even if that critique is like the

01:06:03.820 --> 01:06:06.239
characters were underdeveloped. Were they, or

01:06:06.239 --> 01:06:09.239
was that the, literally just the art you were

01:06:09.239 --> 01:06:11.920
watching? See, I have the opposite problem where

01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:15.480
I always have to think of something good. I'll

01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:18.019
never just be like, that movie was trash. That

01:06:18.019 --> 01:06:20.880
was bad. Like, that's just not me. You know,

01:06:20.920 --> 01:06:23.519
I always try to find something that makes it

01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:26.079
redeeming, even if it's just the effort of creating

01:06:26.079 --> 01:06:29.239
something. But you're not wrong about how most

01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:32.940
people kind of approach critiquing and all of

01:06:32.940 --> 01:06:37.079
that. You know, I don't like to write reviews

01:06:37.079 --> 01:06:39.820
or anything really like that. I consider any

01:06:39.820 --> 01:06:42.159
kind of like blogging or writing I do to be more

01:06:42.159 --> 01:06:46.389
like contextual than. you know, a vehicle for

01:06:46.389 --> 01:06:49.489
my own personal taste or opinion, you know? Yeah.

01:06:49.550 --> 01:06:53.230
Yeah. I really admire that. Yeah. And I, you

01:06:53.230 --> 01:06:56.030
know, for me, like no movie is perfect and no

01:06:56.030 --> 01:06:58.329
movie is worthless. Like almost all of them are

01:06:58.329 --> 01:06:59.849
somewhere in the middle, you know? And I think

01:06:59.849 --> 01:07:02.869
for me, well, like writing and reading criticism,

01:07:02.969 --> 01:07:07.030
I think the joy is like. like what, what, what

01:07:07.030 --> 01:07:09.090
still can you take away from it? You know, like

01:07:09.090 --> 01:07:11.010
what is the value of this movie, despite it's

01:07:11.010 --> 01:07:13.010
great things or it's bad things. Like what is,

01:07:13.030 --> 01:07:15.429
what will you remember it for? What will the

01:07:15.429 --> 01:07:17.550
world remember it for? I think it's important

01:07:17.550 --> 01:07:20.070
to place it in that larger context, whatever

01:07:20.070 --> 01:07:23.869
it's flaws might be, you know? I still agree.

01:07:24.070 --> 01:07:26.309
And that's really how I approach my trivia too,

01:07:26.409 --> 01:07:30.170
is just like, my trivia is not about plot recall.

01:07:30.329 --> 01:07:33.760
Like to me, that's boring. I really much prefer

01:07:33.760 --> 01:07:36.460
to kind of like make questions that put it into

01:07:36.460 --> 01:07:38.860
a bigger context because that's really like ground

01:07:38.860 --> 01:07:40.940
zero for appreciating something, for wanting

01:07:40.940 --> 01:07:43.679
to see something. But yeah, sorry, a bit of a

01:07:43.679 --> 01:07:46.559
tangent there. I love it. We're all about the

01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:49.369
tangents, Cam Kaju, all the time. Yeah. I did

01:07:49.369 --> 01:07:51.690
want to mention one more theme and like you guys

01:07:51.690 --> 01:07:53.349
certainly feel free to mention more as well,

01:07:53.409 --> 01:07:55.829
but I really love the theme of just storytelling

01:07:55.829 --> 01:07:57.989
in this movie. And that might seem kind of obvious

01:07:57.989 --> 01:07:59.590
because we've talked a lot about fairy tales.

01:07:59.670 --> 01:08:02.610
We've talked about the kind of Chinese box storytelling

01:08:02.610 --> 01:08:05.070
structure of the film and like embedded stories

01:08:05.070 --> 01:08:07.690
within stories. So clearly it's about storytelling,

01:08:07.730 --> 01:08:10.210
but I think it's powerful in this case because

01:08:10.210 --> 01:08:13.050
Angela Carter has a quote about this too, but

01:08:13.050 --> 01:08:14.869
like stories are just such a powerful way to

01:08:14.869 --> 01:08:17.649
make sense. of the human experience, particularly

01:08:17.649 --> 01:08:21.470
if you are going through difficult times. If

01:08:21.470 --> 01:08:23.689
you're like, you know, for example, if you're

01:08:23.689 --> 01:08:25.189
coming of age, if you're going through puberty

01:08:25.189 --> 01:08:26.750
and you don't totally know what's going on with

01:08:26.750 --> 01:08:30.069
your body, storytelling or dreaming in this,

01:08:30.069 --> 01:08:32.109
in the case of this movie are just like such

01:08:32.109 --> 01:08:35.050
powerful ways to try to make sense of that. And

01:08:35.050 --> 01:08:37.970
I always really like movies that kind of don't

01:08:37.970 --> 01:08:40.369
just tell like one linear story, but maybe have

01:08:40.369 --> 01:08:43.840
like diversions and like. tales within tales

01:08:43.840 --> 01:08:45.939
or whatever, you know, I always find that really

01:08:45.939 --> 01:08:47.960
compelling and fascinating. And I think especially

01:08:47.960 --> 01:08:51.119
so in this case. I would say too, just it being

01:08:51.119 --> 01:08:53.979
a fairy tale is very like kind of telling of

01:08:53.979 --> 01:08:57.060
her transformation of, you know, fairy tales

01:08:57.060 --> 01:08:59.819
are enjoyed by children for the most part. They're

01:08:59.819 --> 01:09:03.060
taught morals and all these things kind of becomes

01:09:03.060 --> 01:09:06.399
this shared cultural knowledge. It's really neat

01:09:06.399 --> 01:09:08.680
to kind of see that inserted here. You know,

01:09:08.699 --> 01:09:10.859
I think there's a lot of interesting stuff going

01:09:10.859 --> 01:09:13.859
on with how it unfolds. And it's really like

01:09:13.859 --> 01:09:16.699
all in her psyche, which is also very just cool

01:09:16.699 --> 01:09:21.180
and interesting and very neat. Yeah, I'm a big

01:09:21.180 --> 01:09:25.319
fan of fairy tales as a genre because of those

01:09:25.319 --> 01:09:28.979
universal truths that they expose children to.

01:09:29.260 --> 01:09:32.960
And it's like a collective cultural like touchstones.

01:09:33.039 --> 01:09:35.859
Like we all know Little Red Riding Hood. which

01:09:35.859 --> 01:09:39.199
is a great in to this movie. And I didn't know

01:09:39.199 --> 01:09:40.880
that. I mean, and the movie's more than just

01:09:40.880 --> 01:09:43.279
Little Red Riding Hood, but the first time she

01:09:43.279 --> 01:09:46.880
puts on that red coat. Your mind just goes, yes,

01:09:47.039 --> 01:09:48.539
Little Red Riding Hood. My mind was blown. I

01:09:48.539 --> 01:09:51.100
was like, oh, this is what we're doing? I love

01:09:51.100 --> 01:09:54.359
this. Let's deconstruct something as seemingly

01:09:54.359 --> 01:09:58.279
simple as Little Red Riding Hood, which in and

01:09:58.279 --> 01:10:01.039
of itself, yeah, you can read themes of puberty

01:10:01.039 --> 01:10:04.020
and coming of age. And there's violence in that

01:10:04.020 --> 01:10:06.539
story because there's different versions. You

01:10:06.539 --> 01:10:08.739
know, I didn't grow up on the version where the

01:10:08.739 --> 01:10:11.760
huntsman comes in and kills the wolf or like

01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:15.340
pulls granny out of the wolf. She's still alive.

01:10:15.739 --> 01:10:18.079
I don't know. You know, but there's different

01:10:18.079 --> 01:10:19.979
versions depending on your tolerance for violence.

01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:25.680
But wolves themselves as an element of fairy

01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:29.479
tales. You know, I'm sure there are others. I

01:10:29.479 --> 01:10:30.859
think of Little Red Riding Hood. I also think

01:10:30.859 --> 01:10:33.420
of Beauty and the Beast, which isn't quite a

01:10:33.420 --> 01:10:38.680
werewolf, but a beastie character anyways. And

01:10:38.680 --> 01:10:41.420
I think wolves, as we've talked about, and as

01:10:41.420 --> 01:10:43.939
we all know, that werewolves are great symbols

01:10:43.939 --> 01:10:47.640
and metaphors for so many different things. Any

01:10:47.640 --> 01:10:53.859
facet of change and transformation and isolation

01:10:53.859 --> 01:10:55.779
and loneliness and all these things, whatever

01:10:55.779 --> 01:10:58.659
you want to put on it. Yeah, especially with

01:10:58.659 --> 01:11:00.500
women, too, you know, because of that connection

01:11:00.500 --> 01:11:04.640
to the moon and menstruation and all. Yeah. In

01:11:04.640 --> 01:11:07.500
this movie, I like that there are different stories,

01:11:07.699 --> 01:11:10.760
vignettes, because the wolf is able to be used

01:11:10.760 --> 01:11:14.699
as more than one metaphor. What I liked in the

01:11:14.699 --> 01:11:19.159
wedding party scene, it was all the aristocrats

01:11:19.159 --> 01:11:23.159
who turned into animals and monsters. And I was

01:11:23.159 --> 01:11:28.310
like, right. The working class people, the band,

01:11:28.550 --> 01:11:33.710
they don't turn into monsters. It's the fat cats

01:11:33.710 --> 01:11:37.229
at the table who become fat dogs, I guess. But

01:11:37.229 --> 01:11:39.630
yeah, I was like, that's an interesting take.

01:11:39.829 --> 01:11:42.489
Because it's usually the downtrodden who are

01:11:42.489 --> 01:11:45.710
werewolves and the outcasts. But in this case,

01:11:45.869 --> 01:11:50.090
no, it's the 1 % who have the animals inside.

01:11:50.550 --> 01:11:52.850
Well, there's something predatory about them,

01:11:52.909 --> 01:11:54.550
you know? I love what you said about how they

01:11:54.550 --> 01:11:57.050
can... They serve different purposes, the wolves

01:11:57.050 --> 01:12:00.329
in this story. That's very interesting. Yeah,

01:12:00.369 --> 01:12:03.649
very cool. Yeah. And it's like Granny says, the

01:12:03.649 --> 01:12:06.130
scariest or most dangerous ones are the ones

01:12:06.130 --> 01:12:08.090
that are hairy on the inside, but not on the

01:12:08.090 --> 01:12:10.430
outside. We see that in the wedding party scene.

01:12:10.909 --> 01:12:14.489
Yeah. And never trust a man whose eyebrows meet

01:12:14.489 --> 01:12:17.289
in the middle. Yeah. Good advice for anybody.

01:12:17.789 --> 01:12:21.750
Yeah. That unibrow. Sorry to our unibrow listeners.

01:12:25.039 --> 01:12:28.560
Just kidding, of course. I do also, just to follow

01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:30.180
up on what you said, Vincent, I really love the

01:12:30.180 --> 01:12:33.340
vignette where it's like the she -wolf who climbs

01:12:33.340 --> 01:12:35.699
out of the well and then turns back into a young

01:12:35.699 --> 01:12:38.659
woman. That's a very short vignette. I think

01:12:38.659 --> 01:12:40.840
it might be the shortest story within the movie,

01:12:40.899 --> 01:12:43.880
but really powerful. I think that scene makes

01:12:43.880 --> 01:12:47.909
it clear that... Not only are wolves only a metaphor

01:12:47.909 --> 01:12:49.890
for the danger of men, there's some of that for

01:12:49.890 --> 01:12:52.090
sure, but wolves serve many purposes, like you

01:12:52.090 --> 01:12:54.590
said. But I think that scene also just has so

01:12:54.590 --> 01:12:56.989
much empathy for that character. We don't know

01:12:56.989 --> 01:13:01.670
a lot about her, but we know that she is what

01:13:01.670 --> 01:13:04.109
she is. She's a lycanthrope, a werewolf, and

01:13:04.109 --> 01:13:06.909
she's kind of cast out by that and feels... you

01:13:06.909 --> 01:13:09.850
know, shunned, feels kind of lonely, alienated.

01:13:09.949 --> 01:13:12.590
And I think a lot of that is conveyed not through

01:13:12.590 --> 01:13:14.449
dialogue, but just visually in that sequence.

01:13:15.229 --> 01:13:18.130
And I really love that part a lot. You know what

01:13:18.130 --> 01:13:20.789
that makes me think of? The depiction of religion

01:13:20.789 --> 01:13:25.250
in this film. It's very subtle, but I found it

01:13:25.250 --> 01:13:28.789
a positive depiction. Rosalie wears a cross,

01:13:28.930 --> 01:13:31.989
and even as the wolf is wearing the cross necklace

01:13:31.989 --> 01:13:35.500
and runs off with it. But then you'd mentioned

01:13:35.500 --> 01:13:38.880
the she -wolf character. She's found by a priest.

01:13:39.140 --> 01:13:43.300
And he says, are you of God or the devil? And

01:13:43.300 --> 01:13:45.680
then he stops and says, actually, it doesn't

01:13:45.680 --> 01:13:49.180
matter. Come on inside. And I love that. I think

01:13:49.180 --> 01:13:53.319
typically in horror films, not typically, but

01:13:53.319 --> 01:13:57.500
at least often, I find religion to be treated

01:13:57.500 --> 01:14:01.079
less positively. It's like a shadow force. It's

01:14:01.079 --> 01:14:05.979
corrupt. Yeah. And I think Rosaline, you know,

01:14:06.000 --> 01:14:07.979
the priest reappears in some other sequences

01:14:07.979 --> 01:14:10.159
as well. And Rosaline seems to have a lot of

01:14:10.159 --> 01:14:13.060
compassion for him, like, because Granny doesn't

01:14:13.060 --> 01:14:14.939
seem to like him very much. Granny has strong

01:14:14.939 --> 01:14:17.680
opinions about everything. But, you know, I kind

01:14:17.680 --> 01:14:20.359
of like that Rosaline's, maybe friendship is

01:14:20.359 --> 01:14:23.340
a strong word, but just like simpatico with this

01:14:23.340 --> 01:14:25.500
priest shows up in that sequence as well, you

01:14:25.500 --> 01:14:27.920
know? Yeah. And he drops a bunch of branches

01:14:27.920 --> 01:14:30.180
on Granny, which is funny. Yeah, I love that

01:14:30.180 --> 01:14:36.310
part. Well, clearly a lot of symbolism. The werewolves,

01:14:36.310 --> 01:14:38.050
again, just represent so many different things

01:14:38.050 --> 01:14:40.850
in this movie. And yeah, I think you can pick

01:14:40.850 --> 01:14:44.050
apart the themes pretty extensively. And it's

01:14:44.050 --> 01:14:46.130
pretty rewarding, in my opinion. Do either of

01:14:46.130 --> 01:14:47.710
you have any other themes that you want to talk

01:14:47.710 --> 01:14:50.970
about? Sure. I had something about how I thought

01:14:50.970 --> 01:14:55.170
it was interesting that there was no male gaze

01:14:55.170 --> 01:14:57.579
in the way that you would expect. To see it in

01:14:57.579 --> 01:15:00.779
this film, you know, like there's red lips and

01:15:00.779 --> 01:15:04.300
silky garments and those kind of things. But

01:15:04.300 --> 01:15:06.640
it was really like from her perspective. And

01:15:06.640 --> 01:15:08.800
I think that that scene where she climbs up in

01:15:08.800 --> 01:15:11.359
the tree and like is putting lipstick on and

01:15:11.359 --> 01:15:13.739
kind of, you know, that's for herself. That's

01:15:13.739 --> 01:15:16.560
her. And she's not doing it for anybody else.

01:15:16.619 --> 01:15:19.380
So I really appreciate that kind of male gaze

01:15:19.380 --> 01:15:21.939
being subverted moment because it really is like,

01:15:21.939 --> 01:15:24.539
you know, what does it feel like to be looked

01:15:24.539 --> 01:15:27.279
at a certain way? when you don't know how to

01:15:27.279 --> 01:15:30.319
feel about your own body. And it's just an interesting

01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:33.319
little theme in it. I think that maybe theme

01:15:33.319 --> 01:15:35.199
isn't the right word, but an interesting layer

01:15:35.199 --> 01:15:38.100
that I really enjoyed. Yeah, that's a really

01:15:38.100 --> 01:15:41.020
powerful moment. I think is that remind me because

01:15:41.020 --> 01:15:43.000
I might be misremembering this, but is that the

01:15:43.000 --> 01:15:45.180
same part where the wolves that are transformed

01:15:45.180 --> 01:15:47.260
in the wedding party, they're all kind of like

01:15:47.260 --> 01:15:49.300
surrounding her and they're like howling at her?

01:15:49.359 --> 01:15:51.279
Is that a different part of the movie? It's when

01:15:51.279 --> 01:15:54.619
she's being chased by the amorous boy and she

01:15:54.619 --> 01:15:57.819
kind of is dodging him and hiding and she seeks,

01:15:57.899 --> 01:16:01.319
you know, kind of hit a hiding spot, like up

01:16:01.319 --> 01:16:03.920
in the tree, essentially. That's right. Thank

01:16:03.920 --> 01:16:05.880
you. I'm just remembering different parts of

01:16:05.880 --> 01:16:07.619
the movie, but okay. There's a lot going on.

01:16:07.680 --> 01:16:15.619
Weird timelines. Like, yeah. Lots of trees. Although

01:16:15.619 --> 01:16:17.640
that reminds me, Neil Jordan said the budget

01:16:17.640 --> 01:16:19.880
was so low on this movie, they only had 12 trees

01:16:19.880 --> 01:16:22.239
to work with. And they had to like move them

01:16:22.239 --> 01:16:24.359
around the set all the time to make it seem like

01:16:24.359 --> 01:16:26.119
a really big forest. But it wasn't. They had

01:16:26.119 --> 01:16:28.960
almost no props whatsoever. Well, I did notice

01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:30.659
and it's not a criticism because again, that's

01:16:30.659 --> 01:16:32.500
not a fair criticism. The movie worked within

01:16:32.500 --> 01:16:36.539
its means, but I did see like the same path substituted.

01:16:36.989 --> 01:16:40.510
like six different times. Yeah. I think that's

01:16:40.510 --> 01:16:42.350
fine though. It makes sense. You know, the forest

01:16:42.350 --> 01:16:45.810
is a mental space, not a physical one. Absolutely.

01:16:45.930 --> 01:16:48.449
It allows us to operate on a symbolic level,

01:16:48.470 --> 01:16:50.750
like right from the beginning, you know? So maybe

01:16:50.750 --> 01:16:52.630
it was a cool thing that they had those limitations.

01:16:52.630 --> 01:16:56.109
It supported, you know, some of the things. Yeah.

01:16:56.430 --> 01:16:59.289
Very stage -like too. Cause what do you do in

01:16:59.289 --> 01:17:01.430
theater? You're going to use the same set for

01:17:01.430 --> 01:17:05.359
six different scenes. Yeah. Yeah, it works for

01:17:05.359 --> 01:17:07.340
me. It's still able to achieve such a dreamlike

01:17:07.340 --> 01:17:09.680
magical look despite those limitations, or maybe

01:17:09.680 --> 01:17:11.680
because of them. Yeah. Which is pretty cool.

01:17:11.779 --> 01:17:14.779
Any other themes? I feel like we could talk about

01:17:14.779 --> 01:17:18.039
the themes for a long time, but I feel like one

01:17:18.039 --> 01:17:20.479
of the pleasures of this movie is just to watch

01:17:20.479 --> 01:17:22.560
it for yourself and see what you come away with,

01:17:22.659 --> 01:17:24.680
like your reading of these themes, because there's

01:17:24.680 --> 01:17:28.140
a lot of flexibility there, I think. Yeah. Yeah,

01:17:28.180 --> 01:17:29.699
I got nothing. I mean, anything else, I'll just

01:17:29.699 --> 01:17:33.119
wrap up into subsequent discussion here. Okay.

01:17:33.670 --> 01:17:36.010
Yeah, same. I think we covered most of the things

01:17:36.010 --> 01:17:38.409
that I wanted to talk about, if not all. Yeah.

01:17:39.029 --> 01:17:41.710
Cool. And we already talked about the form and

01:17:41.710 --> 01:17:43.369
the aesthetic. I have a couple notes here, but

01:17:43.369 --> 01:17:45.210
we've already touched on all these things. So

01:17:45.210 --> 01:17:48.250
it might be time for our individual breakdowns.

01:17:48.689 --> 01:17:51.409
As always, we have the good, the bad, and the

01:17:51.409 --> 01:17:53.850
campy here on Camp Kaiju. So let's start with

01:17:53.850 --> 01:17:57.229
the good. Maybe I'll just get us, I'll get things

01:17:57.229 --> 01:17:58.890
rolling and then turn it over to both of you.

01:17:58.970 --> 01:18:02.579
But I mean, for me, And there's so much that

01:18:02.579 --> 01:18:04.359
I like about this movie, but the visual style

01:18:04.359 --> 01:18:07.399
is just immaculate. And I think even more so

01:18:07.399 --> 01:18:10.920
nowadays when it's just hard to think about a

01:18:10.920 --> 01:18:13.239
lot of recent movies that like achieve this distinct

01:18:13.239 --> 01:18:17.729
magical look, which again is... frightening but

01:18:17.729 --> 01:18:21.090
also like wonderful and transportive you know

01:18:21.090 --> 01:18:24.090
the film really is able to achieve that again

01:18:24.090 --> 01:18:26.369
with a limited budget the the crew really does

01:18:26.369 --> 01:18:29.649
an amazing job i love the the kind of like again

01:18:29.649 --> 01:18:31.890
the embedded maze -like structure of the plot

01:18:31.890 --> 01:18:34.510
which has so many stories within it it's just

01:18:34.510 --> 01:18:37.090
a really immersive movie and i could not wait

01:18:37.090 --> 01:18:40.170
to see what image would come next and where the

01:18:40.170 --> 01:18:42.250
movie would go next so that's the main good thing

01:18:42.250 --> 01:18:47.510
for me yeah It's hard to talk that honestly.

01:18:47.750 --> 01:18:52.310
I think that what's so fun about it is just all

01:18:52.310 --> 01:18:54.170
the ways it could be interpreted. You know, you

01:18:54.170 --> 01:18:57.569
think about, you know, is she empowered or is

01:18:57.569 --> 01:19:00.170
she, you know, is she predator? Is she prey?

01:19:00.369 --> 01:19:02.869
Like, what is she? It's just so interesting and

01:19:02.869 --> 01:19:06.970
so rich. But yeah, the visuals and sets and all

01:19:06.970 --> 01:19:09.069
of that are just outstanding. There's a lot of

01:19:09.069 --> 01:19:10.890
good things about this movie. I didn't find the

01:19:10.890 --> 01:19:14.210
acting to be annoying or take me out of the moment.

01:19:15.079 --> 01:19:18.460
So I enjoyed that. I love Angela Lansbury in

01:19:18.460 --> 01:19:21.399
it and her role in it. And I kind of connected

01:19:21.399 --> 01:19:24.180
to her in a way of remembering what it's like

01:19:24.180 --> 01:19:27.960
to kind of be cautioned by your mom or your auntie

01:19:27.960 --> 01:19:30.739
or your grandma about how you should approach

01:19:30.739 --> 01:19:34.760
life, men, situations. And a lot of it is informed

01:19:34.760 --> 01:19:37.000
by their own trauma. So you have to sort of take

01:19:37.000 --> 01:19:41.340
it knowing that. But yeah, there's a lot of good

01:19:41.340 --> 01:19:44.180
things to like about it. I think we've talked

01:19:44.180 --> 01:19:50.229
a lot about. them already though that is oh such

01:19:50.229 --> 01:19:52.630
a good and i'm and i'm speaking from my perspective

01:19:52.630 --> 01:19:57.449
as an ignorant man and and how i could be less

01:19:57.449 --> 01:20:02.909
ignorant in those interactions with with my female

01:20:02.909 --> 01:20:08.250
friends of the world and i think about how this

01:20:08.250 --> 01:20:12.270
movie is immersive matt to steal your word there

01:20:12.960 --> 01:20:17.380
And it does keep you guessing. Like, there's

01:20:17.380 --> 01:20:21.659
a surprise in every scene, which is really captivating.

01:20:22.060 --> 01:20:27.439
The production design does all that work. I was

01:20:27.439 --> 01:20:30.539
really, you know, it's not often I actually watch

01:20:30.539 --> 01:20:34.100
a horror film where I actually get creeped out.

01:20:34.699 --> 01:20:37.500
But I was down by myself in the basement, lights

01:20:37.500 --> 01:20:40.760
out. I had my mood lighting on, and I was like,

01:20:40.800 --> 01:20:42.680
all right, here we go. And then the dogs show

01:20:42.680 --> 01:20:46.079
up, and their eyes are glowing, and they're in

01:20:46.079 --> 01:20:50.779
shadow. I was spooked, and I heard noises upstairs.

01:20:52.020 --> 01:20:54.479
I went upstairs. I had to make sure my doors

01:20:54.479 --> 01:20:57.840
were locked. It was one of those watchings. I

01:20:57.840 --> 01:21:01.119
was like, was that a mouse in the corner? I don't

01:21:01.119 --> 01:21:05.529
know what's going on. that mouse must have been

01:21:05.529 --> 01:21:10.930
scared too man yeah i love the britishness of

01:21:10.930 --> 01:21:13.810
it if that makes sense like british folk horror

01:21:13.810 --> 01:21:16.350
is such a genre i mean picnic and hanging rock

01:21:16.350 --> 01:21:18.409
i've seen which is australian not british i know

01:21:18.409 --> 01:21:22.149
but like wicker man and you know yeah movies

01:21:22.149 --> 01:21:25.569
from that you know it's very much like that the

01:21:25.569 --> 01:21:29.090
witch finder general my god right yeah very britishy

01:21:29.090 --> 01:21:33.119
i love british folk horror so yeah Yeah. There's

01:21:33.119 --> 01:21:35.939
a real aesthetic to it. The wedding party sequence,

01:21:36.020 --> 01:21:39.060
all the, all the transformations, which we mentioned,

01:21:39.119 --> 01:21:42.899
but need to be shouted out again. Yeah. It's

01:21:42.899 --> 01:21:45.479
a complex film layered. It's a layered film,

01:21:45.560 --> 01:21:50.340
which is a credit to the, the smarts behind the

01:21:50.340 --> 01:21:53.180
script and the direction and, and all the design

01:21:53.180 --> 01:21:56.979
in general. Oh, Oh, a couple of quick, I mean,

01:21:57.000 --> 01:22:01.140
Angela Landberry losing. There's another decapitation

01:22:01.140 --> 01:22:04.659
in the movie, which with like a huntsman cuts

01:22:04.659 --> 01:22:07.340
off the werewolf's head, which is an awesome

01:22:07.340 --> 01:22:09.560
moment because the wolf's head falls into a bucket

01:22:09.560 --> 01:22:12.800
of milk. And when it pops to the surface, it's

01:22:12.800 --> 01:22:17.420
the human head. I was like, man. And milk, as

01:22:17.420 --> 01:22:21.359
we film nerds know, is often a metaphor for youth.

01:22:21.800 --> 01:22:24.399
So it's like the corruption of youth. It's bloodied

01:22:24.399 --> 01:22:28.560
and there's a man's head in it. Amazing shot.

01:22:28.779 --> 01:22:33.319
Amazing. Angela Carter, Neil Jordan, messed up.

01:22:33.720 --> 01:22:36.420
Brilliant minds. Oh, and I love the, I love the

01:22:36.420 --> 01:22:39.220
sequence with the, the dad comes in. They, they've

01:22:39.220 --> 01:22:42.460
just like shot the wolf and he has a hand, a

01:22:42.460 --> 01:22:45.220
human hand wrapped in the package in the paper.

01:22:45.300 --> 01:22:48.159
And he's like, I swear it was a wolf's paw. It

01:22:48.159 --> 01:22:52.239
was a four paw. Then he, he unravels a human

01:22:52.239 --> 01:22:56.250
hand. It's like, ah, that's sick. And that exact

01:22:56.250 --> 01:22:58.529
scene is taken almost verbatim from one of the

01:22:58.529 --> 01:23:00.329
Angela Carter stories that I did read, which

01:23:00.329 --> 01:23:02.609
is just called The Werewolf. But you would love

01:23:02.609 --> 01:23:04.170
that story. I think both of you would love it.

01:23:04.170 --> 01:23:06.189
And anybody listening, I think you would love

01:23:06.189 --> 01:23:07.850
it too. So check it out. All right. I'll try

01:23:07.850 --> 01:23:10.069
to find maybe some links for the show notes.

01:23:10.329 --> 01:23:15.329
Yeah. All right. Those are my shout outs. I love

01:23:15.329 --> 01:23:19.989
it. Sorry, Naomi, but we do have to talk about

01:23:19.989 --> 01:23:23.970
the criticisms if there are any. Yeah. Well,

01:23:24.050 --> 01:23:25.909
maybe we'll start with you if that's all right,

01:23:25.930 --> 01:23:27.670
just so you can get it over with. If you do have

01:23:27.670 --> 01:23:29.430
anything that you don't like about this movie,

01:23:29.550 --> 01:23:32.449
what might that be? Well, for me, I didn't really

01:23:32.449 --> 01:23:35.170
like the religious element to it. I thought it

01:23:35.170 --> 01:23:38.649
was a bit piled on for me and it transported

01:23:38.649 --> 01:23:43.649
me from like a fantasy place to a more like real

01:23:43.649 --> 01:23:46.600
place. And I just didn't enjoy that. kind of

01:23:46.600 --> 01:23:49.180
whiplash a little bit. But it wasn't enough to

01:23:49.180 --> 01:23:51.800
really affect me in any way. And I've seen the

01:23:51.800 --> 01:23:54.500
film twice, and I didn't remember that from seeing

01:23:54.500 --> 01:23:56.699
it the first time. So it's obviously not that

01:23:56.699 --> 01:23:59.460
big of a thing for me. But yeah, I would say

01:23:59.460 --> 01:24:02.539
that just felt a little piled on for me. I didn't

01:24:02.539 --> 01:24:05.880
enjoy it. I think that's fair. What about you,

01:24:05.899 --> 01:24:08.239
Vincent? What did you not like about this movie?

01:24:09.119 --> 01:24:13.859
Ah, man, it was difficult, actually. But I felt...

01:24:14.250 --> 01:24:17.590
Like the creepy dolls in the beginning, like

01:24:17.590 --> 01:24:20.789
her toys were creepy. And I think they worked

01:24:20.789 --> 01:24:24.050
at being creepy. And I get that they represent

01:24:24.050 --> 01:24:29.590
her previous life as a child. But beyond this,

01:24:29.630 --> 01:24:32.890
the metaphor and the sheer creep factor, they

01:24:32.890 --> 01:24:35.449
didn't really play into the rest of the story.

01:24:35.630 --> 01:24:38.729
And I just felt disconnected with like, this

01:24:38.729 --> 01:24:41.970
is a wolf story, but you're like really harping

01:24:41.970 --> 01:24:44.659
on these dolls. But, like, at the end, I don't

01:24:44.659 --> 01:24:47.119
feel like they paid off. And then, I mean, not

01:24:47.119 --> 01:24:50.539
to mention, like, the life -size dolls that are,

01:24:50.619 --> 01:24:53.760
like, actors in costumes. Again, very creepy.

01:24:54.460 --> 01:24:57.859
But I didn't feel like we needed that, if that

01:24:57.859 --> 01:25:00.739
makes sense. Yeah. I think that's super fair.

01:25:00.899 --> 01:25:03.420
I agree with that. I do think there's some value

01:25:03.420 --> 01:25:05.760
in kind of using it as a symbol, like, at the

01:25:05.760 --> 01:25:08.600
end as, you know, when wolves are running over

01:25:08.600 --> 01:25:11.989
it, loss of innocence, kind of that thing. But

01:25:11.989 --> 01:25:14.189
yeah, the beginning, it's especially weird kind

01:25:14.189 --> 01:25:16.310
of setting you up with those big toys because

01:25:16.310 --> 01:25:18.329
you're like, what is this? Like, you know, it

01:25:18.329 --> 01:25:20.909
doesn't really, it's not a thing that really

01:25:20.909 --> 01:25:23.630
comes back as you watch the film. So it feels

01:25:23.630 --> 01:25:27.319
a bit strange. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with

01:25:27.319 --> 01:25:29.619
that. And I think for movies of this kind that

01:25:29.619 --> 01:25:32.659
are surreal and maybe kind of episodic in a way,

01:25:32.680 --> 01:25:34.720
like, again, there's not really like a clear

01:25:34.720 --> 01:25:36.939
narrative that connects everything. I think maybe

01:25:36.939 --> 01:25:38.600
they tend to be a little bit hit or miss and

01:25:38.600 --> 01:25:41.220
there might be a few individual scenes that aren't

01:25:41.220 --> 01:25:43.220
as successful as others. And I would agree that

01:25:43.220 --> 01:25:45.699
the scene with the giant toys is one example.

01:25:46.409 --> 01:25:48.729
Another example for me is the scene where the

01:25:48.729 --> 01:25:50.609
devil, played by Terrence Stamp, pulls up in

01:25:50.609 --> 01:25:52.909
the Rolls Royce. I was excited for that moment.

01:25:52.989 --> 01:25:55.710
I love Terrence Stamp, and I'm fascinated by

01:25:55.710 --> 01:25:59.010
mythology around the devil and Satan, and where

01:25:59.010 --> 01:26:00.909
does evil come from, and questions like that.

01:26:01.210 --> 01:26:03.329
So I was hoping for a little bit more from that

01:26:03.329 --> 01:26:05.689
scene. Essentially, the devil just gives that

01:26:05.689 --> 01:26:08.649
boy a skull, and that's pretty much the end of

01:26:08.649 --> 01:26:10.390
the scene. He doesn't really have very much dialogue.

01:26:10.670 --> 01:26:13.569
The devil doesn't. So I guess maybe I was hoping

01:26:13.569 --> 01:26:16.130
for more from that scene. Felt a little bit let

01:26:16.130 --> 01:26:19.609
down. But, you know, I mean, if that's like the

01:26:19.609 --> 01:26:21.770
biggest criticism I have against the movie, that's

01:26:21.770 --> 01:26:24.329
not too bad. Just a few scenes that didn't work

01:26:24.329 --> 01:26:29.050
quite as well for me. Yeah, yeah. I agree. But

01:26:29.050 --> 01:26:31.470
that's really all I got. I mean, like, again,

01:26:31.489 --> 01:26:34.529
anything else I could come up with is just, like,

01:26:34.550 --> 01:26:37.510
I don't need to criticize certain things because

01:26:37.510 --> 01:26:40.670
the movie knows what it is. It's very confident.

01:26:41.350 --> 01:26:44.829
And if it's that confident in its presentation,

01:26:45.090 --> 01:26:50.890
well, that's it. I can't criticize a person for

01:26:50.890 --> 01:26:54.590
being who they are, and this is what it is. Yeah,

01:26:55.510 --> 01:26:57.890
I think the overall power of the movie and the

01:26:57.890 --> 01:27:00.069
fact that it achieves what it wants to do so

01:27:00.069 --> 01:27:01.930
well, I mean, that for me is kind of the main

01:27:01.930 --> 01:27:06.989
takeaway, despite some mild flaws. And Vincent,

01:27:07.130 --> 01:27:08.989
you said before that there's not a ton of humor

01:27:08.989 --> 01:27:11.510
in the movie. And I would mostly agree with that.

01:27:11.590 --> 01:27:13.569
But is there anything campy that we want to call

01:27:13.569 --> 01:27:16.369
out here? There's a line that I immediately had

01:27:16.369 --> 01:27:19.170
to write down. It's the first maybe werewolf

01:27:19.170 --> 01:27:22.930
story. There's a young woman. Oh, with the young

01:27:22.930 --> 01:27:27.770
bridegroom. And her new husband, he goes out

01:27:27.770 --> 01:27:31.069
presumably to go to the bathroom. He never returns.

01:27:31.689 --> 01:27:34.689
But the woman says, oh, because of the next morning.

01:27:35.370 --> 01:27:37.029
the townspeople are like, where did he go? What

01:27:37.029 --> 01:27:39.729
was he doing? And she says, he was making water

01:27:39.729 --> 01:27:46.630
when a man is most defenseless. And I said to

01:27:46.630 --> 01:27:50.850
myself, that is true. That is true. Yeah. I mean,

01:27:50.869 --> 01:27:54.289
anybody would be right, but it's such a quaint

01:27:54.289 --> 01:27:56.229
way to say it to making water. I think I'm going

01:27:56.229 --> 01:27:58.029
to use that from now on. I like it. You know,

01:27:58.069 --> 01:27:59.810
if you've ever gone camping and you got to go

01:27:59.810 --> 01:28:03.229
pee in the woods, which my wife says is such

01:28:03.229 --> 01:28:05.819
a man thing, but. You're standing out there.

01:28:05.920 --> 01:28:09.100
You are so vulnerable. Pants around your ankles.

01:28:09.319 --> 01:28:11.619
You're just like, I hope a wolf doesn't eat me

01:28:11.619 --> 01:28:16.819
right now. Especially after watching this movie.

01:28:16.920 --> 01:28:21.600
That's a logical concern. Yeah. Naomi, anything

01:28:21.600 --> 01:28:25.420
campy that you wanted to call out? I guess maybe

01:28:25.420 --> 01:28:31.500
like the dyed dogs was a bit campy. And just

01:28:31.500 --> 01:28:33.319
knowing dogs too, and knowing they're having

01:28:33.319 --> 01:28:36.020
a great time, like just running around, you know,

01:28:36.020 --> 01:28:40.100
they got zoomies like, so that was a little campy.

01:28:40.100 --> 01:28:42.359
And I also like, I know this is a big part of

01:28:42.359 --> 01:28:45.720
the movie, but the kind of like, you know, the

01:28:45.720 --> 01:28:48.619
worst wolves are hairy on the inside line, like

01:28:48.619 --> 01:28:52.319
that whole line to me just feels very like, almost

01:28:52.319 --> 01:28:55.340
like a teenage girl diary entry trying to be

01:28:55.340 --> 01:28:58.420
poetic or something. I don't know. I just felt

01:28:58.420 --> 01:29:02.729
like. didn't have the presence that some of the

01:29:02.729 --> 01:29:05.310
other parts of the film had. And it was said

01:29:05.310 --> 01:29:07.869
multiple times. And so for me, that would be

01:29:07.869 --> 01:29:13.170
it. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Yeah. Love those

01:29:13.170 --> 01:29:18.039
dogs. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't have a lot of campy

01:29:18.039 --> 01:29:20.060
stuff either. I like the opening scene of the

01:29:20.060 --> 01:29:22.020
movie. I don't know if this is camp necessarily,

01:29:22.119 --> 01:29:24.260
but I like the character of Rosaline's sister

01:29:24.260 --> 01:29:26.920
who unfortunately dies pretty early on. But like

01:29:26.920 --> 01:29:29.159
when we first see her, she's this like goody

01:29:29.159 --> 01:29:31.319
two shoes. Who's like, Oh mommy, you're back

01:29:31.319 --> 01:29:33.579
from the grocery store. And then she like calls

01:29:33.579 --> 01:29:36.239
Rosalina pest numerous times and like a very

01:29:36.239 --> 01:29:39.079
British accent, just like pest, pest, pest, pest.

01:29:39.399 --> 01:29:41.539
And like, I think it's supposed to be funny.

01:29:41.579 --> 01:29:44.460
And I. I don't know. I just like, you know, we

01:29:44.460 --> 01:29:46.020
don't, there's not very much time in the movie

01:29:46.020 --> 01:29:47.840
to like be introduced to these characters and

01:29:47.840 --> 01:29:50.359
their family dynamic as it exists in the real

01:29:50.359 --> 01:29:53.420
world. So I kind of like the heightened, almost

01:29:53.420 --> 01:29:55.840
comedic aspect of that. I thought that was done

01:29:55.840 --> 01:29:57.720
very well, but maybe a little bit campy too.

01:29:58.840 --> 01:30:01.699
Well, upon hindsight, you know, cause like the

01:30:01.699 --> 01:30:05.770
sister dies in the dream, right? I guess it's

01:30:05.770 --> 01:30:07.649
a little unclear, but yeah, I think so. I mean,

01:30:07.670 --> 01:30:10.010
I think from the point we enter that part of

01:30:10.010 --> 01:30:11.710
the movie, I think it's all dream stuff pretty

01:30:11.710 --> 01:30:14.829
much. Yeah. But I love that her little sister

01:30:14.829 --> 01:30:17.770
is having this revenge fantasy dream. It's like,

01:30:17.829 --> 01:30:20.350
yeah, well, I'm going to get you in my dream

01:30:20.350 --> 01:30:25.140
world. Yeah. Who's the best now? Well, I have

01:30:25.140 --> 01:30:29.680
siblings and it's not that crazy, you know. You're

01:30:29.680 --> 01:30:31.699
not dreaming about them being attacked by werewolves

01:30:31.699 --> 01:30:35.300
or anything? Not anymore, but maybe once upon

01:30:35.300 --> 01:30:39.880
a time. Yeah, yeah. Well, awesome. Lots of good,

01:30:39.960 --> 01:30:42.859
little bit of bad, tiny bit of campy. But we

01:30:42.859 --> 01:30:44.979
have arrived at the point where we give the film

01:30:44.979 --> 01:30:48.079
a rating, as always on Camp Kaiju. Our highest

01:30:48.079 --> 01:30:50.359
rating is it is a timeless classic. It definitely

01:30:50.359 --> 01:30:53.159
stands the test of time. Our second rating, there

01:30:53.159 --> 01:30:55.359
may be some antiquated moments, but overall it's

01:30:55.359 --> 01:30:58.140
great. It stands the test of time. Number three,

01:30:58.199 --> 01:31:00.640
it may be historically significant or just fun,

01:31:00.779 --> 01:31:03.340
but it does not stand the test of time. Number

01:31:03.340 --> 01:31:05.979
four, it is not worth revisiting. It definitely

01:31:05.979 --> 01:31:10.939
does not stand the test of time. Okay. Vincent,

01:31:11.060 --> 01:31:14.260
what do you think? Sorry, not to call on you

01:31:14.260 --> 01:31:15.880
like we're in class or anything. He just called

01:31:15.880 --> 01:31:21.270
on me. I think this movie... It's a timeless

01:31:21.270 --> 01:31:24.470
classic. It stands the test of time. I think

01:31:24.470 --> 01:31:28.329
it's underrated, at least in my experience. I

01:31:28.329 --> 01:31:31.550
think if I'm in a room discussing werewolf movies,

01:31:31.689 --> 01:31:34.350
I'm going to talk about this one. I think it

01:31:34.350 --> 01:31:36.390
stands the test of time because the themes are

01:31:36.390 --> 01:31:42.149
not just everlasting, but these are complex themes

01:31:42.149 --> 01:31:44.350
in our own lives. How many of us struggle with

01:31:44.350 --> 01:31:47.909
these things all the time, let alone teenagers?

01:31:48.840 --> 01:31:51.520
But the way it's presented, it's not simplified.

01:31:51.960 --> 01:31:55.140
It's not dumbed down. Like this is a complicated

01:31:55.140 --> 01:32:00.520
movie fitting of its complicated messages. And

01:32:00.520 --> 01:32:04.000
it's done really well. So I think it stands the

01:32:04.000 --> 01:32:07.060
test of time. A beautiful looking film that I

01:32:07.060 --> 01:32:11.340
would recommend. Yeah. Awesome. I love it. And

01:32:11.340 --> 01:32:13.239
maybe I'll go next and then we can let our guest

01:32:13.239 --> 01:32:14.819
star have the final word. Does that sound all

01:32:14.819 --> 01:32:18.239
right? Okay. All right. Yeah. For me, same. It's

01:32:18.239 --> 01:32:20.380
a timeless classic. Definitely stands the test

01:32:20.380 --> 01:32:22.699
of time. I expected to like this movie, but I

01:32:22.699 --> 01:32:24.319
didn't know how much I was going to like it.

01:32:24.899 --> 01:32:26.739
Yeah. I would just echo everything that Vincent

01:32:26.739 --> 01:32:29.819
said about it. Love the mix of like horror, but

01:32:29.819 --> 01:32:32.640
also, you know, kind of like surreal, complex

01:32:32.640 --> 01:32:36.000
themes really does have a lot to say about the

01:32:36.000 --> 01:32:38.060
human experience. I'm kind of just repeating

01:32:38.060 --> 01:32:39.920
everything that Vincent said, but yes, for me

01:32:39.920 --> 01:32:42.439
too, it is a timeless classic and I can't wait

01:32:42.439 --> 01:32:46.640
to watch it again. Nice. Well, I, This will be

01:32:46.640 --> 01:32:48.899
a threefer because I also think it is a timeless

01:32:48.899 --> 01:32:53.100
classic. It'll stand the test of time, especially

01:32:53.100 --> 01:32:55.979
when viewed as a piece of feminist horror. I

01:32:55.979 --> 01:32:58.000
think that it really belongs in that category.

01:32:58.039 --> 01:33:01.880
It's very underrated. It's interesting. It's

01:33:01.880 --> 01:33:04.520
a film that's interested in how girlhood feels,

01:33:04.600 --> 01:33:07.380
and it prioritizes that over how a story should

01:33:07.380 --> 01:33:11.739
be structured. And I like that a lot. I wouldn't

01:33:11.739 --> 01:33:13.800
recommend it to everyone though, but to anybody

01:33:13.800 --> 01:33:17.020
that likes a moody layered symbolic horror, I

01:33:17.020 --> 01:33:19.920
definitely would. But I think some men could

01:33:19.920 --> 01:33:23.199
watch it and be like, not all men, you know,

01:33:23.220 --> 01:33:26.800
like I feel like not everybody would get it,

01:33:26.859 --> 01:33:29.760
but I absolutely love this film. And I think

01:33:29.760 --> 01:33:32.840
that it has a lot of layers that I've seen it

01:33:32.840 --> 01:33:35.960
twice. I want to still see it again. So I think

01:33:35.960 --> 01:33:39.279
it's a great film. Awesome. I'm so glad we all.

01:33:39.880 --> 01:33:41.619
Loved it and gave it the highest rating. I'm

01:33:41.619 --> 01:33:44.199
very, very happy about that. Seems like a fitting

01:33:44.199 --> 01:33:46.659
end for the first part of season five of Camp

01:33:46.659 --> 01:33:51.800
Kaiju. Yeah. More werewolves to come, I'm sure.

01:33:52.199 --> 01:33:55.359
I hope so. Maybe my favorite subgenre of monster

01:33:55.359 --> 01:33:58.260
movie. You have brought, well, I brought the

01:33:58.260 --> 01:34:01.180
wolf man, but you brought the howling too. Yeah.

01:34:01.560 --> 01:34:04.279
And the howling. I don't know the howling in

01:34:04.279 --> 01:34:05.880
the company of wolves might be neck and neck

01:34:05.880 --> 01:34:08.800
for my favorite werewolf or pseudo werewolf movie.

01:34:08.939 --> 01:34:10.300
Cause I don't know if that fully encompasses

01:34:10.300 --> 01:34:12.359
what the company of wolves is, you know? Right.

01:34:13.119 --> 01:34:16.260
That's what makes it so good. Exactly. Yup. Yup.

01:34:17.260 --> 01:34:20.680
Yeah. So good. I'm so appreciative of you guys

01:34:20.680 --> 01:34:23.500
having me in this conversation. And I learned

01:34:23.500 --> 01:34:26.600
a ton about, you know, the backstory of the film,

01:34:26.659 --> 01:34:28.880
the motivations. I loved hearing your perspective.

01:34:29.689 --> 01:34:32.409
As always, such a pleasure to be on Camp Kaiju.

01:34:32.489 --> 01:34:35.130
Thank you. Well, Naomi, we really can't thank

01:34:35.130 --> 01:34:38.470
you enough. And it's been so great just getting

01:34:38.470 --> 01:34:42.649
to know you as a person and getting to become

01:34:42.649 --> 01:34:44.810
friends through trivia as well as the podcast.

01:34:45.109 --> 01:34:49.529
So thank you for hanging out with us. And I hope

01:34:49.529 --> 01:34:52.060
to see you again soon. I can't speak for Matt.

01:34:52.159 --> 01:34:54.819
Maybe Matt doesn't want to. That is untrue. I

01:34:54.819 --> 01:34:57.039
absolutely look forward to that as well. And

01:34:57.039 --> 01:34:59.619
I'm sure there will be more guest spots in the

01:34:59.619 --> 01:35:02.180
future and I'm mightily looking forward to them.

01:35:02.340 --> 01:35:04.840
Oh yes. Please let me know. Always a pleasure.

01:35:05.359 --> 01:35:07.680
Always a privilege. Thank you very much. All

01:35:07.680 --> 01:35:10.840
right. And we'll put links to film friends, movie

01:35:10.840 --> 01:35:14.560
trivia in the show notes. So people check out

01:35:14.560 --> 01:35:18.979
movie trivia at Indeed. Yes, that would be great.

01:35:19.119 --> 01:35:22.479
You know, I. It's very much a passion project.

01:35:22.579 --> 01:35:26.140
It's unlike any trivia I've ever been to. Just

01:35:26.140 --> 01:35:28.920
so people who have never been know, it's free

01:35:28.920 --> 01:35:32.140
to play. It is sponsored by two of Minneapolis'

01:35:32.439 --> 01:35:35.119
best repertory theaters, Trilon and The Heights,

01:35:35.300 --> 01:35:39.000
so free tickets. And what makes it special is

01:35:39.000 --> 01:35:42.119
that I write all the questions alongside a different

01:35:42.119 --> 01:35:45.619
guest co -host from the film community. So you

01:35:45.619 --> 01:35:47.699
get a showcase of different perspectives, different

01:35:47.699 --> 01:35:50.060
film tastes, and it builds a real sense of connection.

01:35:50.539 --> 01:35:52.800
Hence the name Film Friends. You know, I think

01:35:52.800 --> 01:35:55.579
bonding over movies is a beautiful thing. And

01:35:55.579 --> 01:35:58.659
that's what my trivia is all about. So yeah,

01:35:58.739 --> 01:36:01.680
come through. First one day of every month, Indeed

01:36:01.680 --> 01:36:05.659
Brewery. Awesome. Yeah, make sure you check it

01:36:05.659 --> 01:36:07.819
out. I've always enjoyed going. Thank you again,

01:36:07.920 --> 01:36:10.649
Naomi. Coming up on Camp Kaiju, we'll have Kai

01:36:10.649 --> 01:36:13.609
July, obviously in July, and then coming up part

01:36:13.609 --> 01:36:16.569
two of season five. So stay tuned for that. Yeah.

01:36:17.029 --> 01:36:19.270
Matt, do you want to stick around a little bit

01:36:19.270 --> 01:36:22.489
later and talk about that? Yeah, for sure. Should

01:36:22.489 --> 01:36:24.710
I read the outro right now or should we save

01:36:24.710 --> 01:36:26.710
that for later as well? We can do that later.

01:36:26.869 --> 01:36:29.270
All right. Sounds good. Yeah. Well, thank you,

01:36:29.289 --> 01:36:31.989
Naomi. Of course. Thank you guys so much. And

01:36:31.989 --> 01:36:34.470
I'm excited to hear the next batch of picks that

01:36:34.470 --> 01:36:37.189
you have. And I'd love to be on again. So let

01:36:37.189 --> 01:36:40.399
me know. Got it. Definitely. Yeah. Okay. Have

01:36:40.399 --> 01:36:43.569
a nice day. You too. Bye. Thanks for hanging

01:36:43.569 --> 01:36:45.710
out, friends. Please rate and review wherever

01:36:45.710 --> 01:36:48.189
you listen. You can also share this podcast with

01:36:48.189 --> 01:36:51.109
a friend, subscribe to the website, and send

01:36:51.109 --> 01:36:54.430
us listener comments at campkaiju at gmail .com

01:36:54.430 --> 01:36:56.810
or on Instagram. Links are in the show notes.

01:36:57.229 --> 01:36:59.250
If you would like to be a featured voice on the

01:36:59.250 --> 01:37:05.130
show, leave a voicemail at 612 -470 -2612 telling

01:37:05.130 --> 01:37:07.350
us about your favorite monster movies and memories.

01:37:07.770 --> 01:37:10.569
Please check out our website, campkaijupodcast

01:37:10.569 --> 01:37:14.020
.com for more information. Camp Kaiju is recorded

01:37:14.020 --> 01:37:16.340
in Minneapolis, St. Paul, with Minya's Mailbox

01:37:16.340 --> 01:37:19.319
Music by Ben Cook Feltz. Thanks, friends. And

01:37:19.319 --> 01:37:23.039
until next time, stay campy. Camp Kaiju is sponsored

01:37:23.039 --> 01:37:25.159
by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack, powered by

01:37:25.159 --> 01:37:27.880
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01:37:27.880 --> 01:37:30.699
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01:37:35.859 --> 01:37:38.779
follow the Zach Pack on social media, and contact

01:37:38.779 --> 01:37:41.800
the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Link

01:37:41.800 --> 01:37:47.739
in the show notes. Anything? Not a hair, nor

01:37:47.739 --> 01:37:51.619
a hide of him. Not a footprint. No. And what's

01:37:51.619 --> 01:37:55.659
that, might I ask? I told you I heard the walls

01:37:55.659 --> 01:37:58.270
last night. They came and took him and he was

01:37:58.270 --> 01:38:02.670
making water. When a man is at his most defenseless.