Well, that would be the rated R version. I think
it could be done tastefully, you know, as tastefully
as maybe a Grindhouse movie could be. Right.
But no, that's not the version we get. Yeah,
Swamp Thing is rated PG after all, and I'm joking
a little bit, but I would like to see that version
of the movie too. Well, he would have an enormous
schunstiger. Hello and welcome to Camp Kaiju
Monster Movie Podcast. We're your hosts, Matt
Levine. And Vincent Hannum. And we're talking
about all of our favorite monster movies, the
good, the bad, and the downright campy, and asking
if they stand the test of time. Traditional Kaiju,
creature features, space invaders, the supernatural,
and everything in between. All strange beasts
welcome here. Cam Kaiju is sponsored by Zach
Linder and the Zach Pack, powered by Coldwell
Banker Realty. Your source for real estate, home
rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients
and residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach
Pack today for real estate services. Follow the
Zach Pack on social media and contact the Zach
Pack for investment opportunities. Links in the
show notes. Government agents. Scientists. Soldiers.
Master criminals. Secret formulas. Monsters and
midgets. None of them belong in this swamp. Only
one thing does. No, stop! Uh -huh. You're a kind
of struggle. Adrienne Barbeau and The Swamp Thing,
an outrageous pair in the incredible adventure
that grows on you or all over you. The Adventures
of The Swamp Thing. The comic book legend lives.
Vincent, how you doing? So good. So good. I got
three days of school left as of this recording,
but folks listening to us in the future, I'm
a free man. It is summer vacation. I can't wait
to stay up late to my detriment, but that's what
summer's all about. I don't think that's to your
detriment. You're going to be watching monster
movies all night. You're going to be like recreating
Jaws at like Minnesota lakes. It's going to be
great. Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's an idea. It could
be like a Purple Rain Jaws mashup in Lake Minnetonka.
That sounds insane and less scary than just Jaws
in a lake. People do that. They'll get the floaties
and they'll watch it on the screen in a pool.
And I feel like I would still be too terrified
even in a pool to do that. Yeah. I could not
do it. I mean, even when I'm swimming in like
the deep end of a pool, I always imagine that
like I'm going to look around and like a gray
white's going to be coming at me. So I could
definitely not do that. I think Jaws was as long
as like a normal swimming pool. Yeah, you're
probably right. Maybe not an Olympic pool, just
like your backyard swimming pool. Yeah. Good
old animatronic Bruce. Yeah. Which somehow makes
him even scarier, in my opinion. As we know,
as we've talked about on the podcast before,
this is the 50th anniversary of Jaws this summer.
That's right. And for friends of the podcast
listening out there, or enemies, call in on the
Kaiju hotline or just write us an email. Tell
us about your memories with Jaws. I want to collect
them all. I want to package them up. release
a special Jaws themed episode later this summer
to celebrate our favorite shark movie. So please
keep that in mind as you're thinking about this
episode and thinking about Jaws. Maybe the best
monster movie ever. Certainly has a claim to
that title. Arguably. Yeah. Man, I mean, I love
the friends of the podcast, but I may be even
more fascinated by the enemies of the Camp Kaju
podcast. I want to know who they are. If they're
out there, I want to know more about them. I
mean, they are out there. I don't read those
comments on Minya's mailbox. No, there aren't
many, but one day I'll share them with you and
you friends of the podcast. But we like to keep
things positive here. Yeah, maybe I don't want
to know about that. Maybe it's back a little
bit. But to anybody listening out there, anybody
leaving comments on our YouTube or, you know,
whatever, whatever channel you're on, Instagram,
Facebook. Thank you. We appreciate you, especially
the friends of the podcast. Absolutely. So what
have you seen recently, Vincent? Any good monster
movies? Yeah, I mean, not. Go rehash everything
we just talked about. Maybe I'll release that
as a special content. But I saw the movie Crawl
from 2019 set in Florida about killer alligators.
Much better than you might give it credit for.
I would highly recommend. It's campy. It's got
heart. And some of the craziest. animals i've
seen in a creature feature so would recommend
crawl are the gators i assume they're not real
live alligators are they cgi in that they are
cgi okay which is not my preference but the things
these gators are doing i i i just have to give
the creators a little forgiveness because I don't
know. The things these gators are doing, I can
imagine, would cost so much more money to try
to pull off in camera with either live alligators
or animatronics. Yeah. You don't want them to
actually kill anybody on camera. That would be
unfortunate. Right. And it's the type of thing
where if this movie was made in the 70s, maybe
it'd be like a... you know, a dummy full of blood
and guts that you see ripped apart. Right. Is
that animal cruelty? Like there's a lot of standards
have changed. Yeah. So I don't know. No, it's,
it's fair for sure. I mean, probably alligator
by Louis Teague from 1980, I think is the epitome
of that sub genre of monster movie killer gators.
But, but yeah, crawl sounds great. I'll have
to check it out. Definitely. How about you? Oh,
I saw a bad monster movie, Species 2. I did want
to talk about that a little bit. Because I don't
think I mentioned this in the last podcast that
we did. After we talked about Species, I was
excited to revisit some of the sequels. And yeah,
Species 2 is not very good. I don't think I will
be going any further in that series, but we'll
see. Maybe it'll change my mind. You gotta think
about it. Sleep on it. I mean, it was bad, but
not like offensively bad. And I have like...
What's the best way to put this? A high bar for
bad movies or a low bar? I don't know which one
it is, but I'll put up with a lot of badness
to be entertained. So maybe I'll watch some more
species movies. We'll see. I get it, though,
being a completionist. I bet there's a part of
you that wants to go the distance. Yeah, right.
And part of me wants to believe that like species
for the awakening. Awesome. You know, and like,
it's a total diamond in the rough and nobody
knows about that. I'm sure it's not true. I'm
sure it's terrible, but I kind of want to do
the due diligence and find out for myself, you
know? Yep. Yep. Yep. Uh, there are a couple of
new monster movies in theaters. Bring her back,
which is kind of like a sequel to talk to me,
which is a very, very good horror movie from
a couple of years ago. I don't know if you saw
that one. No, but I've been interested. That
one's good. I might check that out. And then
a movie whose title I absolutely love. I know
nothing about this movie, but have you heard
about Clown in a Cornfield? I have heard the
title. I'm sorry if I brought this up in the
previous episode. No, no, you haven't. Yeah,
again, I've heard mixed things about that movie.
It's probably not very good, but for the title
alone, I have to see it. Is it like woman standing
in a front yard? Whatever that movie was? Right,
Woman in the Yard, yeah. Woman in the Yard. It
seems very similar to that, but it's a clown
instead of a woman. And a cornfield instead of
a yard. Yeah, that's what I get from the title,
but I could be totally wrong about that. I don't
know. But that might be a home watch at some
point. I don't know. It might already be out
of theaters anyway, but I do want to check that
out sometime soon. But yeah, a couple monster
movies in theaters nowadays. Yeah, and we got
summer coming up and there's some new releases
that we'll get to shortly. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. We do like to commemorate actors and directors
and writers and artists who had some role to
play in the world of monster movies. So I wanted
to say rest in peace to Peter Kwong, who was
one of the three storms in Big Trouble in Little
China, which is kind of a controversial movie
nowadays. I feel like it is not dated all that
well. And yet part of me still wants to celebrate
that movie a little bit. It's so imaginative.
It's so fun. You know, John Carpenter, a very
just stylish, visceral, to use that word again,
filmmaker that who he has so many movies that
I love. Big Trouble in Little China, problematic,
but still, you know, worth watching with with
some asterisks next to it. But but more importantly,
rest in peace to Peter Kwong. He was not only
in Big Trouble in Little China. He was also in
Wonder Woman, Miami Vice, The Golden Child with
Eddie Murphy, so many other movies and TV shows.
He just died, I think, like a week ago. So thank
you, Peter Kwong, to everything you did for Monster
Movies and TV shows. All right. Rest in peace.
So before we get on, well, let's talk about what
we're going to talk about in today's episode,
Swamp Thing from 1982 by Wes Craven. Swamp Thing.
Yeah. Swamp Thing. That's how you have to say
it. It's the only way to say it. That's what
we'll be talking about soon. Guilty pleasure
territory, maybe, possibly. Yeah. But we'll find
out soon enough. Yeah. I can't wait to dive into
the murky swamp here. Oh, it is murky indeed.
Yeah. For better and for worse. And swampy. Very
swampy. A lot of swamp ass going on in this movie.
Figuratively and literally. I would assume anyway.
We probably won't talk about that too much. That's
up to the viewer's imagination. But you know,
if that's where your mind goes, that's where
mine went. That's the European cut. Yeah. Indeed,
yeah. Oh man, we'll be talking about that too
soon enough here. Before we talk more about Swamp
Thing, just a few nuts and bolts on Camp Kaiju
to cover first. Thank you all so much for hanging
out. Please rate and review wherever you listen
to Camp Kaiju. You can also send us listener
comments at campkaiju at gmail .com or on our
Instagram page at camp underscore kaiju. If you'd
like to be a featured voice on the show, you
can leave a voicemail at 612 -470 -2612 telling
us about all of your favorite monster movies
and memories. As Vincent said before, in particular,
if you have any memories about the movie Jaws,
please let us know. That's kind of our focus
for the summer. We're excited to hear about that.
Please also check out our website, campkaijupodcast
.com, for more reviews and special content. And
finally, you can find some merchandise at campkaiju
.threadless .com. Some really great stuff on
there, some cool new designs. I love all the
new stuff that we have on the website, so definitely
check that out. You can also become a patron
at patreon .com slash campkaiju. for discounts,
priority comments, and access to any live events.
We do hope to have some updates about live events
soon. More to come on that. But yeah, thank you
again to all of our patrons. We really appreciate
all of your support. Jason, Chris, Sean, Peggy,
and our anonymous patron. And this is news to
me. Do we have a new patron, Vincent? We do.
So welcome, everybody. Chris B. And... We can't
thank Chris enough for their support. But now
we have two Chris's, Matt. How are we going to
differentiate them? Well, our first Chris has
a nickname on their Patreon account called Beast
Drool. So if it's okay with you, Chris, out there,
you will henceforth be known as Beast Drool and
Chris B will be Chris B. Crispy. I like it. All
right. So thank you all. And you patrons out
there, you'll be the first to know about any
upcoming live events. That's just part of the
perks of being a patron. You just get the inside
scoop a little bit before the rest of you all
out there. But you all listening, please check
us out on Patreon. You could become a free member.
Just kind of wet your whistle there a little
bit if you're not ready to commit. But whenever
you are, we are... How should I phrase this?
We're waiting with open arms. With our eyes wide
open. We just need to play the entirety of that
Creed song at this point in the episode. I hope
that happens. We'll have to buy the rights. That'll
blow our entire Camp Kaiju budget, but it's going
to be worth it. Guaranteed. Our live event is
with Creed. What? The big reveal happens now.
I had no idea, man. Alright, back to monster
movies, back to Captain Kaiju. What happens at
this point in time in monster movie history?
This episode will be released in mid -June, mid
-June -ish or so. So, you know, I like to kind
of look back to what happened 10 or 20 or 30
years ago in monster movie history. Vincent,
any of these titles, do you want to call them
out here? Yeah, you know one that catches my
eye? From 1985, Cocoon. That is a movie my mom
showed me once. And I have only seen it once.
But every once in a while, I think back fondly
about this movie starring old people and alien
pods. And I wonder, I wonder, I want to watch
it again. I have like the exact same history
with that movie. My parents loved it. And I watched
it with them probably two or three times when
I was really young. Yeah, it's a very heartwarming
kind of family -friendly movie. And, you know,
we talk about a lot of kind of objectionable
stuff on Camp Kaiju sometimes, a lot of sex and
violence. But this movie is really heartwarming.
It's great. So if you haven't seen Cocoon, yeah,
I think both of us recommend watching it, preferably
with your parents. It seems like a parent movie.
Yeah, yeah. I'm glad you called that out. That
one's great. Yeah. 1985 was a big year for monster
movies. One of them is The Stuff by Larry Cohen,
which is a really great visceral... Sorry, I
do overuse that word, but it applies to most
of my favorite movies. The creature effects in
that movie are really great. It's very funny.
But the one that I actually wanted to mention
is Life Force by Tobey Hooper from 1985. I feel
like that's actually the ancestor to Species,
because Life Force has... A very beautiful main
actress, Matilda May, who is naked for most of
that movie. I mean, if you don't mind a lot of
bad taste, a lot of vulgarity and immaturity
to go along with your monster movies, Life Force
is awesome. It looks fantastic. The special effects
and the sets and everything else. Toby Hooper
of Texas Chainsaw Massacre fame really does a
great job with that movie. So if you're not...
offended by some sex and nudity, Life Force is
very entertaining. Highly recommended. All right.
I will put that on my list. Yeah. And, you know,
we just talked about species on the podcast,
so I feel like I need to mention that kind of,
you know, spiritual kind of kinship there. Totally.
And then coming up, I talked about Jurassic World
Rebirth. I know you're looking forward to 28
Years Later. Oh, yeah. I love those movies. 28
Days Later is fantastic. I don't always love
Danny Boyle, but yeah, 28 Days Later is really,
really good. Love the kind of like gritty digital
video vibe of that movie. And then 28 Weeks Later
maybe is even better. Like things are even more
apocalyptic. The world is falling apart. I would
say the sequel is even scarier than the first
one. So I can't wait to see what Danny Boyle
is back in the director's chair for the third
one 28 years later. I can't wait to see what
he does. We got to, we got to. Bring some more
zombie movies to the podcast, I feel like. For
sure. Yes. It's such a huge subgenre in horror
movie history. So many great movies to talk about.
Next season, it's going to happen. And then real
quick, Megan 2 .0 is dropping at the end of the
month. Did you see the first Megan? I didn't,
and I thought it looked pretty bad, but then
I heard surprisingly great things about it. Yeah.
I saw it when it came out. I was happy with the
experience. I don't know if I'm going to rush
out to see 2 .0, but, you know, it's at least
a fresh idea that seems to have legs in these,
I don't know, kind of doldrummy cinematic waters
that we find ourselves in with mainstream Hollywood.
Yeah, right. I mean, it's, you know, again, I
haven't seen the first one, but it just seems
like an original kind of fun, campy take on like
the whole. killer doll sort of theme. Yeah. You
know, I'm up for that. I definitely want to see
it. So that'll be coming out soon as well. Yeah.
Yeah. What's coming up next on Camp Kaiju? I
know our next episode is something you're very
excited about, Vincent. So excited. Everybody
listening, get on Robot Jocks. Look it up. It's
streaming on Amazon. Rent it. Unfortunately,
I just looked up the Blu -ray. I think it's out
of print. Terrible, but you can still rent it
on Amazon. It's from 1989. It's a post -apocalyptic
world where warfare is settled by each respective
country pitting its own giant robot against each
other in gladiatorial combat. So you think Pacific
Rim? This is the ancestor of Pacific Rim. It's
a lot of stop motion, and it's directed by Stuart
Gordon. who did Reanimator, for example. So it's
a lot of fun. It's very campy. It's like a Saturday
morning cartoon come to life would recommend.
So we're going to talk about it with Sean Pryor
and Sean Childers, two returning guest hosts.
It's going to be a ball next episode. So we hope
you're a part of it. I can't wait. I feel a little
embarrassed about this, but I had never even
heard of this movie until you and Sean and Sean
brought it to my attention. I didn't know about
it until two years ago. Okay. Makes me feel a
little better. Don't feel bad. No, it's a cult,
cult classic. It was never widely released. It's
just this movie that just flew under the radar
for 30 plus years. And now people, I think, are
starting to talk about it. Man, I can't wait.
Yeah. And we'll have two great guest stars back
in the pod. So that'll be a fun episode for sure.
And then to round out the first half of our season,
you've got a movie. Yeah, The Company of Wolves
by Neil Jordan, which is a movie that I've always
wanted to see. It just looks so bizarre and surreal
and dreamlike. From what I've read about it,
just kind of a metaphor for coming of age. a
young woman kind of, you know, entering womanhood,
but definitely a lot of horror and fantasy and
gothic elements to that movie as well from as
far as I know. So definitely excited to talk
about that one too. I think it'll be a weird
trip if it's what I expect it to be. I'm really
excited. I've recently learned a little bit about
that movie. So thank you for the excuse to watch
it. And I think Naomi Osborne, fingers crossed,
will be joining us for that episode. So yeah,
another good time. Awesome. I can't wait. And
maybe on that episode too, or maybe after that,
we'll be announcing season five, part two. So
more to come soon for sure. This is Jack Burton
and the Pork Chop Express. And I'm talking to
whoever's listening out there. It's a pretty
amazing planet we live on here. And a man would
have to be some kind of fool to think we're all
alone in this universe. There is a hidden world.
Where ancient evil weaves a modern mystery. What's
going on here? Is this some kind of... Magic.
The darkest magic. They call it Little China.
Finally, we shall bring the order out of chaos.
It's where big trouble was waiting for Jack Burton.
Who? Jack Burton. Me. Jack. Jack. Jack! They
told him to go to hell. Make one move. And that's
just where he's going. Somebody, I don't care
who, tell me what is going on. How are you going
to spring us? I have no idea. Meet little Melvin.
He's a 90 -pound weekly. Everyone hated Melvin.
I'm going to take this mop and shove it down
your throat. They teased him. I want to do it
with you. Okay. They taunted him. They tormented
him until he had a horrifying accident and fell
into a vat of nuclear waste. Transforming little
Melvin into a hideously deformed creature of
superhuman size and strength. Melvin became the
Toxic Avenger. The first superhero born out of
nuclear waste. Yes, the muggers and the rapists
didn't know what law and order was until the
Toxic Avenger came to town. I don't know what
it was, but it saved my life. For incredible
explosive action, you must see the Toxic Avenger.
He's a different kind of hero. The Toxic Avenger
is coming to your town. Look out! The kids of
Elm Street don't know it yet, but something is
coming to get them. There's something out there,
isn't there? Did you see what's happened? What
did that, Lieutenant? I don't know. Cheetah!
The coroner got the same. It's in the jaw and
puking since he saw it. You're gonna kill me
for sure. Did you do it? There was somebody else
there. He was locked in a room with a girl who
went in alive and came out in a rubber bag. No
one knows where it came from or who it will visit
next. Nancy, there's something wrong with you.
You're imagining things. Nightmare on Elm Street.
Do you believe in the boogeyman? No. Whatever
you do, don't fall. She's the only one who can
stop it. If she fails... I'm your boyfriend now,
Nancy. No one will survive. Help! Where are you?
From Wes Craven, director of The Hills Have Eyes
and Last House on the Left. A new masterpiece
in fantasy terror, Nightmare on Elm Street. But
tonight, again, we are talking about Swamp Thing
by Wes Craven from 1982. Yeah. I was just thinking,
like, I don't know why I selected this movie.
Like, I don't really like comic books all that
much, and Swamp Thing was like a big comic book
title from the 70s. I guess I'll just start with
my personal history with this film because I
didn't really know a lot about it. It's directed
by Wes Craven, like I said, and I, you know,
I love A Nightmare on Elm Street. That's probably
my favorite horror franchise. And that's the
movie that he made right after Swamp Thing. So
this is kind of leading up to that huge horror
milestone. Wes Craven, of course, has his earlier
low budget horror movies, The Last House on the
Left and The Hills Have Eyes, which I like but
don't love. And honestly, like the Scream movies,
which Wes Craven also did, are fun, in my opinion,
maybe slightly overrated. So, yeah, I don't really
know why I chose Swamp Thing to bring to the
podcast. But, you know, no spoilers, but I'm
glad I did. That's so funny. I mean, yeah, you
have no need to defend your choices. But it is
funny to think you just woke up one morning and
thought, Swamp Thing. Why not? Yeah. Yeah. Well,
you know, again, I don't want to get too far
ahead of ourselves, so I'll just leave it there
for now. But what's your history with this movie?
None. I mean, it's a name I had known about.
And even though I consider myself a comic book
person, Swamp Thing is not a mainstream or wasn't
like a comic book. every kid knows about and
maybe i'm just over generalizing but he's not
like part of the justice league right listeners
correct me if i'm wrong but i don't you know
i never i never came or maybe i was because it's
a marvel guy and and swamp thing is a dc character
yeah but i i do i will echo man i think it's
interesting how you you have talked about Not
loving superhero movies. Yeah. And yet you have
brought both this and the Toxic Avenger, which
are two superheroes. Yeah, you're right. It is
weird. I also really like Darkman, the Sam Raimi
superhero movie from the early 90s. So, you know,
I used to like them. I just don't like the modern
sort of like assembly line Marvel movie like.
That's what I don't love about it, which seem,
you know, not to hate too much on CGI, but like,
I feel like those Marvel movies are like 98 %
CGI. And it's just like, destroy all the skyscrapers.
And there's like one ring that they need to like
defeat the villain who's going to destroy the
universe. It's like, oh, it's the same thing
over and over and over again. That's what I don't
like about it. But when they have personality
and creativity, generally, I would say I do like
them. Yeah. And I was always teasing because
I do not think. the early superhero movies from
Superman in the seventies up until, well, the
pre, I mean, even Nolan's Batman movies, those
were still before this, that Marvel took over
and became this interconnected universe. So I
think they're very different. Dark man, swamp
thing, even Tim Burton's Batmans. They're their
own things. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I like
the Tim Burton Batmans and even the Joel Schumacher
Batmans are kind of fun in their own way, you
know? So yeah, very different movies, like you
said. And just from doing a little bit of research
for this episode, like Swamp Thing, I think,
was relatively recent when this movie was made.
Like, you know, it was only an entity, an intellectual
property in like the early 70s, 1972, I think,
is when the first like standalone Swamp Thing
title came out. So I think even when this movie
was made in 1982, it was kind of a weird choice.
Like it wasn't one of the big superheroes at
that time, you know? But then after the movie,
Alan Moore kind of like recreated the character
and it became a lot bigger. But at the time,
I feel like this wasn't the obvious superhero
choice for Wes Craven to take on. Well, yeah,
I've already talked about Craven a little bit.
I just feel like this period of his career is
kind of interesting because, again, he had his
like very low budget early horror movies. Very
intense, brutal, gritty, dark, violent. The Hills
Have Eyes, Last House on the Left. And then The
Hills Have Eyes especially did so well that he
was offered some projects that were like mid
-tier budgets, semi -mainstream, but not quite
there yet. And Swamp Thing is kind of in that
period where he's still figuring things out.
He's advancing from the early stage of his career,
but he's not, you know, totally advanced to...
the super heights of stardom that A Nightmare
on Elm Street would bring him to. So I just find
this kind of a compelling, interesting period
of his career where he's on his way up, but not
quite there yet, in my opinion. And again, A
Nightmare on Elm Street, probably my favorite
horror movie of the 80s. Really great franchise.
I will always love Wes Craven for that, if, you
know, not for a lot of his other movies. Well,
Elm Street is... a genre defining piece of work
yeah absolutely yeah yeah yeah and i've seen
that and i've seen scream and i've seen this
i have not seen his other works okay the first
two are really good last house on the left is
so hard to watch it's very very brutal but you
know i think it does have ideas and it's like
more than just kind of like a gritty exploitation
grindhouse movie And The Hills Have Eyes, you
know, it's really well made on like a shoestring
budget. So you can see why Craven would be an
in -demand filmmaker at this time of his career.
Like he's able to do a lot with a very minuscule
budget. Yeah, you mentioned Grindhouse. One review
I was reading from Fangoria mentions that, it's
a critique of this writer anyways, that in Swamp
Thing, you could see the... Kind of the tension
between Craven's grindhouse background with Craven's
desire to create a more mainstream movie. Yeah.
And yet that dichotomy is at odds with itself
in this movie at times with the violence in an
otherwise, I would say, PG -13 film. Yeah. Totally,
yeah. You see those conflicting impulses, I think,
in this movie. There's a really great quote from
a critic, Gabriel Tice, I think is his name,
at Fangoria Magazine. He writes, you can summarize
Swamp Thing as either a sleazy creature from
the Black Lagoon or an earnest, toxic Avenger.
That's what I read. Yeah. I love that quote.
I think it's totally spot on, and I think that
kind of speaks to what you're talking about,
sort of halfway in between. grindhouse exploitation
and like, you know, weirdly family -friendly
entertainment. It's all there in this movie.
It's very strange. Yeah, yeah. All right. So
you found that Fangoria piece too? Yeah, I loved
it. I thought it was great. Yeah, well written.
Yeah, for sure. I might be referencing a couple
other reviews throughout the episode as well,
because there's a lot of good stuff about this
movie online. Yeah, well, share those links with
me and I'll put them in the show notes. Yeah,
for sure. They're at the end of this Google Doc,
but... Okay, perfect. So yeah, Wes Craven, director,
just a couple years away from A Nightmare on
Elm Street, directing Swamp Thing. The producers,
do you want to talk about the producers real
quick? The producers are Benjamin Mianiker. Melnicker,
sorry. Melnicker. It's an L, not a capital I.
Benjamin Melnicker and Michael E. Uslan, who
bought the film rights to several DC Comics properties,
thanks in part to... Uslan starting off as a
writer there in 1975. These included Swamp Thing
and, perhaps more lucratively, Batman. Yeah,
I mean, later on in the 80s, you know, Tim Bird
made the first Batman movie, and those two producers,
Melnicker and Uslan, would make a ton of bank
off of it. So, you know, Swamp Thing didn't maybe
start off all that great for them. They did okay,
but Batman would do a lot better for them. We'll
just say that. Batman, speaking of genre defining
films, I think Tim Burton's changed the game
when it came to, as much as Superman did, Batman
then further defined the genre for superhero
films. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And Uslan, Michael
Uslan, I, you know, like I said, I'm not super
familiar with comic books, but just reading a
little bit more about his. He was an avid comic
book fan. I don't think he's alive anymore, unfortunately,
but he had thousands and thousands of comic books
when he was a kid and then became a writer for
DC Comics in the 70s. And he wrote some installments
of The Spirit and then I think of Swamp Thing
as well, and then became the producer of this
movie. So I just find that kind of a cool transition
or evolution, one might say. Yeah. And I love
that. So yeah, he was coming to Swamp Thing and
Batman with an eye for the material. Yeah, totally.
The music is by Harry Manfredini, who worked
on a lot of other horror films, including Friday
the 13th and Wishmaster. And before I even knew
Manfredini did the score, I was thinking to myself,
this sounds like a Friday the 13th type of score.
A lot of strings, a lot of like stings, which...
Manfred Dini, it must be noted, and I'm not slighting
him at all, his score for Friday the 13th, 1980,
is almost a blatant ripoff of the Psycho score.
Yeah, that is true. Yeah, like it is a blade
and rip off of the Psycho score. And also like
it was kind of I feel like very influential on
like slasher movies throughout the 80s because
there's this like very identifiable sort of like
like that sound, you know, and that's in like
every slasher movie for like 10 years straight.
And Swamp Thing is not a slasher movie, but that's
kind of in this movie, too. It's I feel like
he's ripping off his own score a little bit for
Swamp Thing. But. Somewhat effective. Yeah, it
works. Yeah. More power to him. Turning a little
bit to the cast of Swamp Thing, I feel like the
real, well, maybe not the real star of this movie,
but in terms of like, you know, on -screen actor
doing her best. Adrienne Barbeau, who I love.
I love Adrienne Barbeau so much. She is one of
the top five scream queens of all time. She's
in so many John Carpenter movies, The Fog, Escape
from New York, The Thing. She was also in Creepshow,
a lot of TV shows throughout the years. Ironically,
she doesn't like horror movies very much. I read
in an interview, but she's great. I love her
a lot. She plays a researcher in this movie who's
kind of a... sort of love interest for Swamp
Thing. It's a very chaste kind of love interest,
PG sort of subplot, you know, but she's great.
What did you think about her performance in this
movie? I think she anchors the film for sure.
She was actually married to John Carpenter at
this time. And maybe we read the same interview
with her. I found it on Inverse. Yeah, that's
what I read too. All right, look at us. Research.
So yeah, I like her presence a lot. I mean, her
perm is terrible in this movie, but it's the
80s. You can't really blame her for that too
much. No, she's great. Ray Wise plays the scientist
Alec Holland, who is the scientist who was turned
into Swamp Thing. I feel like for me and most
other people our age, Ray Wise is mostly known
as Leland Palmer from Twin Peaks. a very memorable
and terrifying at times portrayal on that show.
He's great. I feel like he always has a really
good screen presence. He's also in Paul Schrader's
Cat People, which we've talked about on the podcast,
and Jeepers Creepers 2, kind of like those movies
as well. So yeah, big Ray Wise fan. He has a
kind of limited role in this movie, but he gives
a good performance. Yeah, and he does not play
Swamp Thing, though. That goes to Dick Durock,
who is a stuntman. He was 6 '6", and he also
worked on the Incredible Hulk TV show. I think
he is great. Yeah. You know, with stunt performers,
you know, sometimes it's just like, no pun intended,
a Hulk behind a mask, right? And we love the
actors who do give life to some of these characters,
like Jason Voorhees. And it's no detriment to
that actor. I'm just comparing Jason Voorhees
to Swamp Thing. The fact is Swamp Thing doesn't
wear a mask. So you're able to see his eyes and
he can speak. So he's more articulate. And I
think Dick Durock provides a great bit of pathos
to this character. Yeah. Totally agree. Yeah.
And I think the dialogue is still by Ray Wise.
I think they overdubbed his lines over Dick Durock's
performance. Oh, wow. But you still see the eyes.
You still see the soulful eyes, the body language
of the character. It's really effective, for
sure. Mm -hmm. Rounding out the cast, we also
have Louis Jourdan as the villainous Anton Arcane,
a really great character name. Jourdan, he's
an interesting actor. He's French, as the name
implies. He started off in a lot of French movies
during World War II. And then he came to Hollywood.
He appeared in films like The Paradigm Case by
Alfred Hitchcock in 1947. And Letter from an
Unknown Woman by Max Offuels in 1948. Letter
from an Unknown Woman is one of my favorite movies
of all time. Fantastic. Louis Jourdan is great.
Joan Fontaine is even better in that movie. Yeah,
Louis Jourdan, you know, kind of had this reputation
for being like a suave, cosmopolitan, sort of
villainous presence. Very handsome, but very
untrustworthy in a lot of movies throughout his
career. He also played a Bond villain in Octopussy
from 1983, so one year after Swamp Thing. But
he's a good villain in this movie. Maybe not
a lot of depth to his character, but a good presence
in this movie. I just have to say... I think
Swamp Thing is a better James Bond movie than
Octopussy. Yeah. I know what you mean. That couple
of things there, before I even knew his connection
to James Bond, I was thinking how James Bond
this movie is, and I loved it. And then secondly,
I think I have Octopussy ranked dead last on
my list. No. Eh. It's either dead last or second
to last on my rankings of the James Bond movies.
Wow. Okay. I mean, I do understand that. I feel
like for me, it would be like right in the middle
of the pack. I kind of have a soft spot for Octopussy,
and that's a weird way to say it. But like, you
know, I mean, like some of the like late Sean
Connery movies, like Diamonds Are Forever, the
early Roger Moore ones, like The Man with the
Golden Gun. This is quite a tangent. But those
are just mean -spirited and nasty, whereas Octopussy
I think is kind of fun, but bloated and overlong
and kind of silly. So it's not my least favorite.
It's definitely not very good. Yeah. I think
Diamonds Are Forever is also very bottom tier
for me. It might be the third worst on my list.
But actually, Man with the Golden Gun is one
of my favorites. So my point is, it's so... The
James Bond franchise, I think everyone's going
to come out differently. Yeah. Which is awesome.
I love that. Totally subjective. Even more so
than most other movies. But yeah, I think we
can both agree that Octopussy is not the best
James Bond movie. Jordan is a decent Bond villain
in that, but a way better Bond villain in Swamp
Thing. I agree with you there. Yeah. He has like
a secret lair. He has like a disguise that he
like rips off very dramatically. Yeah. That part's
awesome. He has a dungeon. He has a pit. Yeah.
He has henchmen. Yeah. He has deformed henchmen.
Speaking about, you know, Man of the Golden Gun.
It's just. Oh, the henchmen in this movie are
great. Yeah. We're already kind of getting into
the campy stuff a little bit, but I just love
the henchmen in this movie so much, especially
when one of them is turned into, like, a character
that would not be out of place on the island
of Dr. Moreau, you know? Yes. I love it. It's
great. It's so ridiculous. It's so campy. It's
so fun. Yeah. Anton Arcane, the Bond villain
that you never knew would be in this movie. Seriously.
But we have one more actor to get through. Yeah,
and I wanted to shout this young man out. I don't
know what you thought about his performance,
but Reggie Batts was just like a local teenager
outside of, I think, Cypress Garden, South Carolina
is where they shot this movie. And he plays a
young man named Jude. He's just a man who works,
a young man, like a teenager, who works at a
gas station and he kind of befriends Alice and
serves as her sidekick a little bit. His performance
is really awkward. I think it's not objectively
a great performance. His line readings are so
stilted and kind of uncomfortable. But I love
it. He brings so much of his natural personality
and charisma to this role. I love all the scenes
with him in this movie. I don't know if you felt
the same way or not. I do. I felt 100%. I've
got good notes to say about him later on. It
can't be notes, but that's also good. Yeah. Yeah.
I think it's so cool. So many filmmakers try
to cast non -professional actors for their lack
of polish and their natural personality. And
I don't know if that was Wes Craven's intention
in this movie, but I feel like it works here
too. It's fun to watch. It is. Yeah, so some
good cast and crew on this movie. Moving on to
the production backstory of Swamp Thing. Like
we already talked about, it was a pretty new
DC Comics franchise started in 1972. Wes Craven,
you know, made a pretty big splash with his early
movies, so he was offered this project. He was
actually, he started working on this at the same
time that he was working on his previous movie,
Deadly Blessing. So he was kind of, you know,
splitting his attention between those two projects.
Wes Craven admitted that he wasn't really a big
comic book fan, but he was attracted to some
of the themes of Swamp Thing. You know, kind
of some of the Frankenstein elements, the man
versus nature storyline. And decided to dive
in. He wrote the script himself and was eager
to take on the project. I love that Frankenstein
is part and parcel of this research because for
any monster movie fans, it's not just the inspiration.
You could see some... overt homage, which I think
is a good thing to the benefit of this film.
Yeah. But the budget was only $2 .5 million,
which is really small. Superman's Richard Donner's
from just a few years prior, that film's budget
was $55 million for context. And the Completion
Bond Company Constantly pressured Craven to cut
costs, resulting in the screenplay being rewritten
throughout production and the cutting of certain
scenes, including an underwater escape through
tunnels beneath the research lab. Wow. Wish we
could have seen that. And even entire characters.
And it's Adrian Barbeau who is on record for
discussing the on -set cuts and rewrites. Craven...
Sorry, Matt. What were you saying? No, no, I'm
sorry. Please, please go ahead. Okay. Craven
said, quote, we had a very tough completion bond
company on this film. They were not friendly
and they were not helpful. They just played the
tough guys all the time. That was probably the
most difficult part of the shoot, constantly
having them looking over our shoulders towards
the end of the film, especially just demanding
that we cut scenes so that we could stay on schedule.
The third act especially was just cut savagely,
having two inexperienced producers that signed
the papers that they would bring it on budget,
they were no help. We were all kind of okay,
I guess, that's what we have to do, or else you're
fired, sort of thing. And just for reference,
a completion bond is a kind of insurance for
distributors of an independently financed film,
which guarantees that the producer will deliver
a completed film within the allotted budget.
Wow, no pressure there. Right. The financial
advisor even cast himself as one of the extras
so he could be on set all the time approving
or disapproving costs. Crazy. Yeah, what? Okay,
so here you go. According to Barbeau, it was
not a fantastic experience compared to so many
of the other films that I've done. It was really
hard on Wes. She had wonderful things to say
about Craven who did what he could with all these
pressures. and took a two -year break from filmmaking
afterwards, storming back with Nightmare on Elm
Street. Supposedly, Craven got the idea for that
franchise while working on this film. So there
you go. Yeah. Wow, what a pressure cooker of
a production. Yeah, unfortunate. I mean, I feel
like it's very obvious how the pressures of just,
you know, turning a film in on time and under
budget definitely impact the making of this movie,
and mostly in negative ways, but in some pretty
campy, entertaining ways at the same time. Yeah,
right. So, you know, you apply pressure to something,
sometimes you get a diamond. Right. Yeah, you
kind of wonder like how good this movie could
have been if Wes Craven in particular didn't
have those pressures. But yeah, some good came
out of it for sure. Yeah. We'll be talking about
that soon enough. Yeah. Filming started in the
summer of 1981 in Cypress Gardens, South Carolina.
It was just a really miserable shoot, very hot
and humid. There was a black caterpillar infestation,
alligators and snakes all over the place. The
hours were long. Cast accommodations were paltry,
including no makeup or hair trailer whatsoever.
So just not a fun shoot for anybody involved.
Sort of like we already talked about, the original
idea was for Ray Wise to play both Dr. Holland
and Swamp Thing throughout the entire production,
but it eventually became clear that that wouldn't
really be possible. A Dick Durack wearing the
Swamp Thing costume is just so clearly... not
the same size and shape as Ray Wise, so that
would not have worked out. Even so, Wes Craven
did have Ray Wise perform all the scenes in the
Swamp Thing costume for every scene that he appeared
in in the movie. So that probably did not help
bring the movie in on time and under budget.
So yeah, unfortunate, but I like the idea behind
that to want to have Ray Wise play that role.
It's kind of a cool idea, but obviously didn't
work out in the long run. Right. It's just...
Two different body types. Yeah. But yeah, Craven
did say like Ray Wise was disappointed that he
couldn't actually appear on screen as Swamp Thing.
Wes Craven said that he was disappointed as well.
But Vincent, like you said before, Dick Durack
gives a good performance. He definitely has like
a very poignant and natural kind of presence
in the movie. The rubber suit, however, did not
really fit up very well. Say what? Yeah, believe
it or not. Shockingly so. I mean, this thing
was made out of like bailing wire and gaffer's
tape. Literally, that's what I think Craven said
in the interview. So, you know, whenever it touched
water, specifically this like very acidic swamp
water, it would just like start to dissolve immediately,
making the production even more difficult. Dick
Duroc would be stuck in that costume for eight
or nine hours on end. He would pass out from
heat exhaustion and the crew would have to just
like run in and like rip off his mask and his
costume. And then it would take several hours
to reapply just to, you know, literally save
this guy's life and not have him like pass out
from heat exhaustion. So in a way, like every
obstacle and hardship they could have experienced
on this production, they kind of did at some
point. Right. And Duroc couldn't go to the bathroom.
And this is where maybe, More budget could have...
If there's one thing I wanted more budget to,
it was the costume. If just for the sake of Duroc.
Right. Poor guy. Give him a fly. It's not that
hard. Right. Not in the budget. Can't do it.
And I feel like you hear so many stories about
that from monster movies where actors have to
sit in a makeup chair for four or five hours
and then they're stuck there all day and they
can't go to the bathroom and all this stuff.
It's a sacrifice for art. And sometimes you're
like, ah, was it really worth it? I don't know.
There has to be a way to make it accommodating.
Yeah. And this is kind of a vulgar thought, but
you know, there is this kind of like chaste romance
between Swamp Thing and the Alice Cable character.
But like the costume of Swamp Thing is totally
like there's no genitalia at all. And I was kind
of like, ah, I kind of want to see what Swamp
Thing has to offer, you know? Like what's he
got swinging down there? Like why does Alice
Cable, why is she attracted to him so much, you
know? I'm being a little crude right now, but
I was like, ah, there's just nothing down there.
It's weird. Well, that. That would be the rated
R version. I think it could be done tastefully,
you know, in a more, in a, as tastefully as maybe
a Grindhouse movie could be. Right. But no, that's,
that's not the, that's not the version we get.
Yeah. Swamp Thing is rated PG after all. And
I'm joking a little bit, but I would like to
see that version of the movie too. Well, he would
have an enormous schunstiger. Yeah, as they say
in Young Frankenstein, you would certainly assume
so. Yeah. Okay. I can read this last bit. Yeah,
for sure. So Wes Craven apparently wasn't a fan
of the monster suit after Arcane's transformation.
Oh, right. So we get two monsters in this movie,
folks. And the final act is Arcane taking the
serum that has turned other people, including...
Swamp Thing into these monsters. So Arcane, our
villain, he takes the potion and it turns him
into what is the essence of his being, a fiendish
rat man. And it's wild. But anyways, we'll talk
about that later. Kraven wasn't a fan of Arcane's
transformation. Asked about it by an interviewer,
he simply sighed heavily while they were shooting
in South Carolina. The Arcane suit was being
designed. While they were shooting in South Carolina,
the Arcane suit was being designed in LA, so
Craven literally didn't see it until it arrived
on set. He said, quote, I don't want to hurt
anybody's feelings on this because everyone was
working very hard, but given the budgets that
we didn't give to them, basically they had very
little to work with. It was kind of a chaotic
thing from the beginning, I think. There probably
should have been five times more money for this
costume and more time to develop and test and
everything else, and there just wasn't. And to
be frank, This costume is like a bad Halloween
costume. It just doesn't look cinematic at all.
With that said, it lends the perfect amount of
camp to this film. Oh, yeah. It's fantastic.
Yeah. Not to mention the fact that this arcane
monster is like wielding a huge sword in that
final fight. So it's just so ridiculous. So bad
it is good. Yeah, absolutely. The epitome of
that phrase, I would say. Yep. Yeah, but yeah,
it does not look probably the way that Wes Craven
wanted it to, as he admitted. Nevertheless, when
Swamp Thing was released in February of 1982,
it was a moderate box office success, partially
because of its low budget. It gained such a cult
following that it even led to a sequel, The Return
of Swamp Thing in 1989. Sorry, and a couple of
TV series. Yeah. One with Dick DeRock. Following
the Return of Swamp Thing, I think it was like
a three -season run on the USA Network, which
I would be into watching. And then I think James
Wan produced a more recent TV series that I don't
think had such an extended life. But there's
a lot of properties out there, including James
Gunn. He is producing a new movie with James
Mangold attached. It keeps being put off on the
back burner because Mangold is off directing
arguably, you know, bigger named movies, Star
Wars and a complete unknown, a complete unknown.
Yeah. So with that said, a new swamp thing is
percolating out there in the swamp. But I hope
it doesn't, I hope it doesn't fall into the quicksand
to continue the metaphor. I want it to, I want
it to rise. From the depths. I love that metaphor.
I wonder if Timothee Chalamet will play Swamp
Thing in the James Mangold version. That would
be dumb. It would be. I really hope that's not
the case. That was just a joke, by the way. No,
I know. He could play maybe the villain. Yeah,
yeah, I could see that. Yeah. I have some ridiculous
mental images in my head right now. Maybe we'll
get the... The unrated cut. So you can get what
you were missing in this. Man, I take back everything
I said. I don't actually want that. Speaking
of that, though, there was a European release
of Swamp Thing at the same time that the American
Swamp Thing was released into theaters in 1982.
And the Completion Bond Company. sort of stipulated
that there would be a lot more nudity in the
European version. So there are gratuitous shots
of Adrian Barbeau topless in the European cut
of Swamp Thing, which makes no sense because
this is essentially a rated PG, mostly family
-friendly story, like a superhero story. And
yeah, I just don't know why you would have this
like sexualized European version of the film.
It makes no sense at all. It was the 80s. I don't
know. I guess that's all. Yeah, it was the 80s.
That's all the explanation you need. Terrible
time for everyone, the 1980s. There's kind of
a funny story, though, like the initial DVD release
of Swamp Thing was supposed to be the rated PG
version, but they accidentally released. the
European cut with way more nudity than there
was supposed to be in it. And at least one parent
complained about it. The distributor had to recall
all the DVDs. They put the right version of the
movie on there. I just, it's, I mean, that's
kind of unfortunate, but it's also hilarious
to imagine a mom being like, where are all these
topless scenes coming from? This is supposed
to be Swamp Thing. I kind of love that story.
I'm just picturing, I mean, how old was this
kid, first of all? I guess this movie may be,
more family -friendly in tone, but I wouldn't
show a young kid this movie because it's still
violent. I don't know. My point is, if you're
showing your kid Swamp Thing, what's a little
bit of nudity? Yeah, right. I mean, the nudity
is probably less offensive than Swamp Thing,
like crushing villains' heads. That's what I'm
talking about. Yeah. But it's weird because like
the tone in this movie is pretty like silly and
cutesy and family friendly. Like even the stuff
where villains die, like there's some fake blood,
but like you don't really see too much. So it's
just a weird combination of tones. And you already
talked about this a little bit, Vincent. It's
like. You know, is this Wes Craven in, like,
early grindhouse exploitation mode, or is it
him in, like, mainstream family -friendly mode?
It's very awkwardly in between, which is fascinating,
but does not really make for a very good movie.
But now is probably a good time for our sponsor
break. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach Linder
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for investment opportunities. Links in the show
notes. Vincent, do we have anything in Minya's
mailbox today? We do. Something super quick,
but super, super, super, super. We have a comment
from a listener named Kyora123. And Kyora simply
says, you guys are amazing. Goodness, thank you,
Kyora123. That's awesome. Thank you so much.
That's good to hear. Yeah. I've got other really
good comments in the mailbag, but I want to save
them when we have time to dedicate to them because
I think they offer some conversation. But for
now, you know, we'll just leave it at that. Absolutely.
Many thanks. Thank you for listening, sharing,
commenting. All the above. We really appreciate
you. Matt, how's life with Peter? Oh, it's a
little bit rough sometimes, let me tell you.
There's some friction. Oh, no. Yeah. Like the
odd couple here. Trouble in paradise. That's
all I'll say. It's tough cohabitating with somebody,
especially diminutive German fiend. I'll just
say that. Yeah. Diminutive German fiends. Well,
I hope he doesn't hear you call him that. I heard
like a shriek from the room behind me. So I think
he is listening in right now. He's not very happy.
And I think things are about to get even worse.
So I will bear the brunt of that. Well, I don't
think I told you. I mean, I should. You're privy
to this. You're his roommate, for goodness sake.
So this lilac, he's growing. He got word out
to me that it is reaching the ceiling now. And
it's grown fangs. and it's squawking, and it
demands fish heads. Oh. And I try to get through
to Peter, but I don't live with the guy, so maybe
you have his ear a little bit more, and you could
really kind of talk him down from this. I don't
think this lilac is good for him. Yeah, that
makes a lot of sense. That could be what the
shrieking is right now. Yeah, it might be totally
unrelated to me and more about the fanged lilac
in his tiny closet. That could be. Well, I'll
try to talk him down. I'll try to, like, produce
some more fish heads. Let me tell you, it does
not feel good to decapitate dozens of fish every
week. I didn't know you prepared them. Oh, yeah,
lovingly. I mean, I try to make sure they're
the best fish that I can possibly find. So, you
know, I mean, I'm doing what I can for Peter,
and he's not appreciative. I'll tell you that
much. You're very kind. At this point, I would
tell a grown man to cut his own fish heads. Oh,
well, I keep them under lock and key in his closet.
What? Yeah. He's just too intrusive otherwise.
Wow. Well, he seems to be okay with that arrangement
because I haven't heard that. But whatever works
for you two, I'm not going to get into your personal
business as long as he's paying his half of the
rent, right? Well, sometimes. Yeah. When I threaten
him. The more I talk about it, the more I understand
why our relationship is a little bit, a little
rough right now. I think I understand. Yeah.
Well, he's dealing with some things, so, you
know, we'll look for some improvements. Yeah.
You know, I'll talk to him. We'll sit down with
a domestic counselor. We'll figure things out.
It'll be okay. Okay. More to come on that soon.
I should check out that lilac, though. I'm a
little scared of that. Yeah, you might want to
stay on top of that. In the meantime. Check out
a movie called The Mad Monster from 1942. I think
it's about a mad scientist turning people into
wolfmen. Hmm. Okay. I haven't seen it yet, but
I cannot wait to watch The Mad Monster and hear
Peter Lorre talk all about it. I feel like that
title could apply to Swamp Thing and many, many
other monster movies. Many others. Yeah. The
vast majority, perhaps. Well, I can't wait to
hear more about it. Welcome to Poverty Row Studios
on the other side of Hollywood. The stars were
dimmer and the red carpets dripped with blood.
Together we will watch the best of the worst.
Movies known for their limited budgets, outlandish
concepts, and questionable performances. But
with enough haunted houses, zombies, ape men,
and devil bats to keep you up at night. This
is the Poverty Row Picture Show. I dare you to
sleep through these nightmares. Hello there,
I am Peter Lorre. You may remember me from such
hard -boiled classics as The Maltese Falcon and
Casablanca. No? You don't remember me? Yes, yes,
with Humphrey Bogart. Yes, the Casablanca. No,
no, not with the Marx Brothers, you know, forget
it. See, this is what I get for doing something
outside the horror genre. Fine, you want monsters,
is it? Spooks, specters, and ghosts? Alright,
then here is a doozy for you this week. From
PRC comes The Mad Monster, starring fellow horror
icon... George Zuko as a mad scientist who concocts
a scheme to transfer a wolf's blood into the
hulking, dim -witted gardener. The madman's aim
is to sic the genetically engineered wolfman
on those colleagues who spurned his experiments.
And if that wasn't enough, perhaps these wolfmen
will be unleashed upon Hitler's German army.
A little Frankenstein, a little wolfman, a little
devil bat. This is a million -dollar idea that
simply cannot meet its own lofty aspirations.
The direction by Sam Newfield is sadly void of
suspense, terror, and mystery. Compounding this
is an inexplicable lack of scoring in such moments.
The Wolfman, played by Glenn Strange, is a decent
screen monster if you can look past his dopey
overalls and bucket hat. But Mr. Strange proves
worthy of inheriting the Frankenstein monster,
as he did in the final three pictures of Universal's
famed series. As the mentally impaired gardener,
however, Mr. Strange is tasked with a characterization
that is embarrassing at best and offensive at
worst. We will let you consider the long history
of medical abuse among our disabled brethren.
Oh! That must be Matthew, home from the market.
Oh, I can smell the salty stench of the herring
from here. What do you think, Lilac? Ready to
have some din -din? Oh, yes, I'll scratch your
belly. Oh, there's a good girl. Good girl. Alright,
alright, listeners, please check out Mad Monster
for yourself. It is no Casablanca, but it might
be so bad it's good. As for next time, we will
review Bowery at Midnight, where Bela Lugosi
plays a gangster with a basement full of zombies.
By Satan's beard with a premise like that, it
better be a masterpiece of the macabre. The big
green guy is back. They call me Swamp Thing.
You're a plant, aren't you? He's come back to
settle the score. Find him. And bring him in.
He's got a grudge, cause they turned him to slug.
I believe this is yours. What? The return of
Swamp Thing. Louis Jardin. What did you do? Sell
your soul to the devil? Let's just say he has
a lease with an option to buy. Heather Locklear.
She can get in my things in time to most things.
Why can't men do more like plants? I mean, you
can stroke a plant and it doesn't get the wrong
idea. And swap things. But I can't give you the
kind of love you want. Why not? I'm a plant.
That's okay. I'm a vegetarian. Back to Swamp
Thing, what are the themes in this movie? Well,
I picked up on a couple that I found interesting.
Number one is the serum, and this Swamp Thing
is chained up in the dungeon of Arcane, and Arcane's
ploy to, like, not take over the world, but to...
He wants to take over this serum for his own
personal gain at any rate. Yeah. And he sees
that drinking the serum turned, I forget, Swamp
Thing's human alter ego. Alec Holland, I believe.
Holland, that's right. Arcane sees that the serum
turns Holland into this super human. And Arcane
says, I want some of that. But he tries it out,
the serum on his henchman, one of his friends.
goons but the serum turns the goon into like
a diminutive satyr like goblin character yeah
real freakish so arcane is is interrogating swamp
thing and says why why can't everyone just be
like you yeah and swamp thing says because the
serum amplifies your essence Which I think is
a really profound and almost poetic way to phrase
this and frame this device, this story device.
Because Arcane takes it and again turns into
this like really nightmare rodent -like creature.
Yeah. And so I just love the theme of exploring
one's own identity and can you change who you
are? According to this movie, you can't. You
can only amplify it. So the lines between good
and bad are very clear in this movie, which is
right in line with the film's tone and approach
as a superhero movie. But yeah, I found it a
really interesting thought. Yeah. I like that
theme, even if like, yeah, the morality does
seem a little bit like black or white. You're
either like a good person or a bad person, you
know, that maybe could have been more interesting,
but. But yeah, the theme is pretty fascinating.
And the moment when that henchman turns into
the little satyr -like creature is really funny
and also kind of disturbing at the same time.
It really did remind me of The Island of Dr.
Moreau, which we just talked about a couple months
ago. Oh, yeah. Honestly, Marlon Brando's mini
-me character is almost cut from the same cloth.
You just wonder if the people behind Moreau...
did take inspiration from swamp thing. Yeah,
absolutely. Yeah. I also think the idea of genius
and what constitutes genius, but also the responsibility
of being a genius is, is an interesting line
to pull thread to pull in this movie because
arcane as he. often says in this movie he is
a genius and he's one really great line that
sums up his worldview and he says to holland
talent does what it can genius does what it must
yeah and and i find that fascinating in our current
age of people like elon musk and all these self
-described geniuses and you know are they using
their their resources and their smarts for the
betterment of mankind. But on the flip side,
like at what cost, at whose expense, at, at what
compromise to your own ethics and morality of
right and wrong, are you going to destroy lives
to achieve this quote unquote greatness? And
that's a duality that. Maybe supervillains play,
maybe a Lex Luthor type, but Arcane personifies
that duality. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's
a common theme from monster movies. I think we
see that in Island of Lost Souls with Charles
Lawton's character, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
We see that a little bit too. So it's a longstanding
theme, but I like what you said about Elon Musk
and just like this era of human history. Like
I think this, well... And it goes back to, like,
nuclear weaponry as well. Like, it's certainly
in a lot of kaiju movies. It's in, you know,
Them, The Day the Earth Stood Still a little
bit, like, implicitly, you know? So, yeah, certainly
a pervasive theme. But I think at this point
in human history, that question is more relevant
than ever. Like, we need people of genius to
innovate and come up with new solutions. But
then, like, what do you do with that science?
Do you, like, you know, Arkane uses it. for money
and power. Like he wants to like control the
world's food supply so that people pay him to
like be able to eat basically. And then Alec
Holland, you know, he wants to feed everybody.
He's driven by world starvation and famine throughout
the planet. And he wants to help everybody. He
wants to make sure that nobody dies of starvation
ever again. So it's kind of a simple minded duality,
but it's still a very important one. And it's
one that like, you know, we see playing out in
the real world over and over again. Yeah. And
then, you know, we also get this man versus nature
theme, which is maybe the most obvious and possibly
like the less interesting theme in the movie,
but it's certainly there. I mean, Holland loves
the swamps. He's one with nature. He, I mean,
literally he's one with nature at a certain point
in the movie. So, you know, that's right there
on the surface, but still, still a duality in
the movie for sure. Yeah. Which as I've read
now, was kind of a common theme for Wes Craven
movies. I haven't seen these other movies, I'm
just regurgitating what I read, but he likes
to examine the environment's relationship on
his characters. Yeah, for sure. And that's maybe
one more review that I'll just shout out here
real quick. I hope I pronounced this writer's
name correctly, but Jakub Flosch is the... is
my guess, I don't know how to pronounce his name.
But, you know, he compares Swamp Thing to Craven's
earlier movies, The Last House on the Left and
The Hills Have Eyes, which were satires of, like,
hippie counterculture and then, like, nuclear
weaponry and, like, the atomic age. Respectively,
those two movies kind of address those themes.
So this critic is saying that Swamp Thing kind
of continues that legacy and is offering another
satire about the role of science in society.
And I think, you know... Looking at Craven's
filmography, I think that depth is certainly
there, even if it is compromised a little bit
by some of the production difficulties during
the making of this movie. Yeah, certainly. But,
you know, some themes in Swamp Thing, for sure.
And at the same time, a lot of camp, a lot of
ridiculousness, and some very bad monster costumes.
For better or worse. Do you want to talk about
the form and aesthetic separately, or should
we work that into our final breakdowns here?
Let's just go through these because I think there
are plenty of good thoughts here. Yeah, for sure.
So there's some solid stunt work in the film,
including a highly entertaining moment where
Swamp Thing flips over a motorboat single -handedly.
Yeah, the wire work with the stunts is campy,
but in the best way. I love it. And it's not
CGI, so you see stuntmen flying through the air
and a boat being demolished and all that. It's
great. It's fun to watch. Holland, he's set on
fire that night. The goons and arcane's men just
blow everything up. He's set on fire. He crashes
through the wall and dives into the lake. It
is top -notch stunt work. And it's so thrilling,
a picture on screen. At that moment, I was hooked
by this movie. Yeah. And what Craven's doing
with the fog. There's a lot of great... green
lighting in the in that sequence yeah really
i think impressive use of lighting and and smoke
and and using his location to enhance whatever
is happening totally and like you said just the
stun work of this man who is completely on fire
and i like i watched that and you're like how
did this guy not die it's like yeah it's breathtaking
and like honestly up until that point in the
movie i was like yeah this is this is cheesy.
This is slow. This is not really working very
well. And then like that scene happens and you're
like, Oh, I'm hooked. Like you said, like it's
great. It's a really, really good scene. Yeah.
You know, I, I do love the suit nation in this
movie. Like at times it did remind me of like
a good old fashioned Toho Kaiju movie where it's
like two men in a suit going at each other and
the costumes themselves maybe are not all that
great, but still like just the, the tactility
of it. the kind of like charming, like do it
yourself aspect of it. I, I sort of like the
climactic fight in this movie, even though it's
not very well done, but it's still so much fun
to watch. So much fun. And, and arcane, the arcane
creature has, like you said, this big, like broad
sword and they're dueling it out in a lake. And
there's so much fog, just, they crank the fog
machines up and it was like a fantasy picture.
Yeah. It was just like, A feast for the eyes.
I was like, this is so, it looks so dumb, but
yet so awesome at the same time. Totally. It's
kind of irresistible. Like, yeah. It's what you
kind of imagine a, like a young boy reading a
Swamp Thing comic book, like what's going through
his head at the time, you know? Exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. I love that aspect of it. And, you know,
I... I don't know how you feel about this, but
I know you really love the movie Creature from
the Black Lagoon, right? And this movie reminded
me of that as well. Absolutely. I mean, it's
an obvious comparison. But there are some shots
of Swamp Thing carrying Cable around in his arms
tenderly that I was like, yep, that's straight
from Jack Arnold's Creature from the Black Lagoon.
But also Frankenstein. The 1931 Universal movie
is a really tender shot when Swamp Thing is tied
up in the dungeon and he's reaching his hand
towards a shaft of light. And that is straight
from James Wales' movie. Yeah. But it's not ripping
off. It's homage. Yeah. It is a difference. I
mean, maybe I can't quite describe that difference.
But in this, in Swamp Thing, it's homage. And
it's beautiful. It is beautiful. That's the word
I was thinking of as well. In Swamp Thing, he's
reaching up his hand so that the sun will strengthen
him. And then he grows a new branch, basically,
and that's kind of the context of the scene.
But yeah, it's more than that. It goes back to
the man versus nature scene, and Swamp Thing
is more one with nature than anybody else in
this movie. He's strengthened by the sun. It's
a beautiful moment, yeah. Yeah. So it's time
for our individual breakdowns here on Camp Kaiju.
As always, we talk about the good, the bad, and
the campy. Again, I think there's a lot of good
stuff in Swamp Thing. I also think there's a
lot of good things in Swamp Thing. Things in
Swamp Thing. The use of the location is awesome
on set. It might have been a pain in the butt
for a casting crew, but it adds so much. reality,
realism to this movie. Another tender moment
is Swamp Thing smelling the flowers in his lab.
He goes back to the ruins of his laboratory.
And that's what I want to really, my main takeaway
of this film is on the surface, it's a campy
action monster movie. But I think in contrast
to what modern 21st century directors would do,
really comfortable taking his time with moments
of quiet tenderness, if that makes sense. So
you have the flower moment, you have the moment
with the beam of light. It's like the movie just
stops, but it's breathing. It's just giving us
time to appreciate the quieter moments of the
story before we're back on the roller coaster.
And I love that. I just appreciate that so much.
I think that helps enhance a movie's longevity,
for instance, and makes it more than just a campy
action monster movie. Yeah. I totally agree with
everything you said. There's one shot in this
movie that I really love where Cable, Alice Cable,
she passes out at some point and Swamp Thing
rescues her. And then she wakes back up and she's
like drenched in sunlight and she's like lying
on his chest. And there's like fog, like you
said, like everywhere throughout. It's a gorgeous
image and just like a really tender image too.
And like, I think it's the same scene where she
asks him if it hurts to be Swamp Thing instead
of the Alec Holland human character. And he's
like, only when I laugh. And that's just such
a... Yeah, it's a Frankenstein moment, you know?
Like, it's so human. It's so touching. And in
the midst of all this silliness and, like, the
weird kind of, like, grindhouse tone of the movie
sometimes, it just really stuck out to me. And,
you know, not to dwell too much on, like, the
movie's production backstory, but just to see
what Craven is able to do. with really arduous
production circumstances and still make something
that has a lot of personality and charm, that
has a lot of imagination to it, that really resists
a lot of the sort of superhero cliches that,
as we talked about, have become a little bit
too predominant in some of the more mainstream
movies recently. I think this version of Swamp
Thing is very touching and charming. It has an
innocence to it that's kind of irresistible sometimes.
Absolutely. And I like that you mentioned that
line because there are a few other lines I need
to shout out because in a movie like this, like
poetry sticks out and there's some lines of dialogue
that really, really do that. The first is that
I have here is, I believe it's Swamp Thing. He
says, everything's a dream when you're alone.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, damn. Yeah. And then. I
think it's Bruno, the sidekick, or maybe it's
the leader of the henchmen. Someone says, it's
every man for himself and God against all. I
was like, whoa. I love that line. Which is a
reference to a Werner Herzog movie of that title
from the 70s. Yes, which that was intentional
on Craven's part. I think he took some inspiration
from that film. But then, A hilarious line from
the actor who plays Jude. So before I get to
the line, the Jude character is apparently killed
by this band of white men. And Jude is a young
black man. I don't think we've mentioned that
before, but I feel like it's kind of relevant.
Absolutely. And, you know, you see a posse of
white men murder a black boy. I'm thinking about
Emmett Till, like I'm a student of history. So
this movie got very dark all of a sudden. And
I was ready to be mad at this movie for being
mean to kill off this character. But I think
it's a great reveal. Swamp Thing has a superpower
where he can rejuvenate people's lives and injuries.
So yeah, he actually brings Jude back to life.
And Jude's bleary -eyed and he looks up at Swamp
Thing for the first time. And he says, oh, shit.
There goes the neighborhood. Yeah, I love that
moment. That's like right on the border between
campy and good. It's both, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
That was awesome. Yeah. I, again, I just totally
agree with you. Like I was ready to be like,
oh, this is such a manipulative, cheap movie
to like pull our heartstrings in that way. And
then to like kind of diffuse that a little bit
through that line of dialogue and also through
Reggie Batts' performance. It's funny and touching
at the same time, for sure. Well, you know, I
mentioned that like the inconsistent tone is
a bad thing. Maybe I'll go through my bad category
real quick and then I'll turn it over to you.
But, you know, I think. There's a sense of what
could have been if the production circumstances
hadn't been so difficult during the making of
this movie. We mentioned the scene of Cable and
Swamp Thing escaping through the underwater tunnels.
That would have been amazing. I think if there
had been better costumes for both Swamp Thing
and the arcane monster, that could have been
awesome. Again, I just think you get the sense
that like Craven or maybe the producers didn't
really know what they wanted. Like, do they want
a sleazy grindhouse movie? Do they want a family
friendly, like touching fantasy? Do they want
this like, you know, deeper analysis of the role
of science and the role of nature? I don't think
this movie really knows what it wants to be.
And that can be entertaining sometimes, but it's
also frustrating. Like this movie could have
been a lot better if... Craven had been able
to make the movie that he wanted to make. And
maybe even if he had had totally free reign,
maybe he wouldn't have been able to pull it off.
But I think you can see that this movie was doomed
from the start with its difficult shoot and the
producers imposing all these ridiculous demands
on it. This movie could have been a lot better
than it is. Yeah, I think it's that tension of...
for sure. I appreciate this movie because I appreciate
these kinds of movies that are a little messy,
but have a lot of heart. But I wonder, you know,
you show this to anybody on the street who maybe
doesn't have this context that we do. You know,
if I feel like for me, it's a little too violent
to show to a younger kid and yet to show to an
older person. It might be too silly and offbeat.
Yeah. So yeah, again, I love that murkiness.
But to the average person on the street, you
can maybe see why this did not do well at the
box office. Yeah. Yeah, I think you can simultaneously
see that and understand why maybe it's developed
a little bit of a cult following since then,
because it is so bizarre. And so like... unlike
most other superhero movies that have been made
since then. But yeah, it definitely does not
work as it's intended to. Right. Whatever that
is. Yeah. Right. Right. I think there's a lot
of cable running around being chased in this
movie, which gets a little tiresome at times,
just a lot of running and like she gets caught
and then she escapes only to then get caught
again and then get saved. Again, it happens like
over and over and over again, but that's a minor
thing. And then here you go, Matt. If you wonder
why Cable is kind of maybe in love with Swamp
Thing, it's ostensibly because she knew Holland
as a human and they developed this relationship.
However, that relationship is unconvincing to
me because he comes off as a total... Sleaze.
Yeah, he does. Like there's nothing charming
about his performance towards her. In fact, I
mean, he smooches her. This is a campy thing
I have because it actually came off more campy
than offensive because it's just so ridiculous
that he lands a big one on her. Yeah. Yeah. Like
forcefully. I know. But aside from that, like
he's trying to make moves on her in the swamps
and I'm just like, who is this guy? Yeah. And
she sees right through it. Maybe if she had given
me an inkling of, you know what? You are kind
of cute. Then to, I think to your question, I
could buy her falling for swamp thing a little
bit more. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I forgot to mention
one of like the biggest hurdles for me in this
movie, which is their relationship, especially
in the moment when he kisses her. And like, yeah,
I like, yeah, again, like very, forcefully and
she's clearly not expecting it and then like
also the relationship between dr holland and
his sister although at first you think that she's
his wife And Cable thinks that as well. And there
are some lines of dialogue that, like, suggest
either could be the case. Like, for the first
half an hour of this movie, I was like, wait
a minute. Are they siblings or are they actually
married? Like, you have no idea until, like,
there's a fairly clear line of dialogue about
it eventually. But, like, it's pretty creepy
and sleazy. And I don't think that was the intention
behind that kind of ambiguity, you know? Yep.
Yeah. Weird. It's weird. And yeah, like even
like his, she does turn out to be a sister, but
then there's this weirdly sort of like romantic
semi -ancestuous relationship between them. Like
she calls him darling at one point. And I don't
know. It's, it's very bizarre. Yeah. What stays,
what happens in the swamp stays in the swamp.
Right. I mean, I guess, you know, a couple of
years in that bayou, you don't know what's going
to happen. So much campy stuff. We've already
talked about so much campy stuff. I do want to
talk about the amazing transitions, like scene
transitions in this movie. There are some star
wipes, kind of like Star Wars style, but like
way cheaper than Star Wars did it. There's even
like a slime wipe where it looks like slime is
like falling down the screen and that transitions
to the next scene. I love the slime wipe. Man,
so ridiculous. It's like, that is the epitome
of camp. Well, maybe not the epitome. That's
like a broad term to begin with, but just such
a cheesy moment. I love it. It's like what a
middle schooler would do through very primitive
final cut effects and be so proud of, you know?
Yeah, Windows Movie Maker. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
just whatever program came on your computer.
Yeah, but I love it. It's ridiculous. Yep. I've
mentioned so many of my campy things, but here's
what I haven't mentioned. There's a Wilhelm scream
in this movie. Oh, yeah. That I loved. Yeah,
I loved that too. I put that in my notes that
I took during the movie. And it's during one
of the moments where Swamp Thing tips over a
boat that's coming at him full speed. It's great.
Yeah. There's also a moment where one of the
henchmen is talking about how like he thinks
that the other goons on Arcane's team thinks
that Swamp Thing is one of the abdominal snowmen's.
And I'm like, that has to be an intentionally
funny line, but it's so charmingly uttered and
it's like so out of nowhere. I really love that
moment. It's great. Yeah. And that's the guy,
Bruno, who then has turned into like the short
satellite guy. So yeah, he was a good character.
I think was properly sympathetic so that when
he did turn into a monster, I felt bad for him.
Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of a disturbing moment
and funny at the same time. Yeah. All the clothes
that he wears are way too tight. And I feel like
that adds a little bit, you know, like, dude,
just get a bigger shirt, but I love you at the
same time. Yeah. I like, you know, this movie
is so much camp. We could mention a lot more,
but. Listeners, you're going to have to watch
it for yourself and see how much camp there actually
is in this movie. It's a lot. At the end, we
always give each movie a rating here on Camp
Kaiju. As always, our highest rating is it's
a timeless classic. It definitely stands the
test of time. Number two, there may be some antiquated
moments, but overall it's great. It stands the
test of time. Number three, it may be historically
significant or just fun, but it does not stand
the test of time. And our lowest rating, it's
not worth revisiting. It definitely does not
stand the test of time. All right. I'm happy
to go first. Sure. Yeah. If you don't mind, that
sounds good. I think Swamp Thing from 1982 has
some antiquated moments. I don't think it's a
perfect movie, but it's a hell of a lot of fun.
And I think it does stand the test of time. I
was not hooked by this movie in the first act,
but once Swamp Thing or Holland turns into Swamp
Thing with the fire and everything we talked
about, this movie dials it up to 11. And from
then on, every scene just sunk its hooks deeper
into me until by the end, I was like, this is
not the movie we started with, people. We have
gone to a distant planet all of a sudden. some
sword and sandal monster movie. And it's a James
Bond movie. It is Wes Craven made a James Bond
movie. And this is it. It's awesome. I love the
mix of tone and genre as messy as it is. So I
think Swamp Thing does stand the test of time.
Not a classic, but certainly worth checking out.
I love it. And I totally agree. To me, Yeah,
definitely some antiquated moments. Overall,
it's so fun. It's very charming. I think it does
stand the test of time. In fact, I would say
that as time goes on, maybe it'll get even richer.
Like, I feel like there have just been so many
serious, overlong, CGI -filled superhero movies.
I'm sorry to dwell on that again. But like, you
know, in comparison, something like this that's
so... you know, again, charming and just like
interesting. It seems to have that sort of like
comic book innocence to it. It just makes me
love it even more as time goes on. So yeah, I,
you know, objectively, is it a great movie? I
don't know if you could really say that, but
I just want to stick up for it. I, there's so
much that I love about it. It's really charming.
It's very fun. Yeah. It's, you know, sea swamp
thing for yourself. If you haven't seen it yet,
I bet you will be delighted or at least. Mystified
in the best possible way. Mystified. That's the
word. That's the sentiment. Yeah, I'm Team Swamp
Thing. Thank you, Matt, for picking this movie,
though you may not know why you did. Something
just called to you. Yeah, I guess so. Sort of
like how Wes Craven had a dream and that led
to a nightmare on Elm Street during the making
of this movie. I had a dream where I wanted to
talk about Swamp Thing, and I'm very glad we're
doing so tonight. Even better than I thought
it would be. Well, better in its own way. I'll
just say that. Awesome. I'm so glad you liked
this movie, Vincent. Anybody listening, I hope
you like it as well. We'll see you next time
on Camp Kaiju for Robot Jocks with Sean and Sean.
So excited for that. Thank you again for hanging
out. Please rate and review wherever you listen.
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and until next time, stay campy. Camp Kaiju is
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