Hey gang, it's Patrick from Gays Do The D. And
Vincent from Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Podcast,
and we are here for another crossover episode
of Magic and Monsters, where we explore the wonderful
world of creature features. On today's episode,
we're releasing the hounds with an exploration
of 1959's The Shaggy Dog. So, grab your popcorn.
get your bowl of dog treats, and away we go.
To all who come to this happy place, welcome.
Well, hello there, Vincent. How's it going? Well,
hello there, Patrick. Here we meet the meeting
of two titans of the podcasting industry. No,
just two people say that, and it's you and me.
No, I'm sure there are... other podcasters who
say the same thing to each other in basements
all across the land. Basements throughout the
United States of America. There are titans amongst
us. I like it. I like the way you think. It's
been a while since our last crossover episode
of Magic and Monsters, and I'm glad we're doing
another one because I really, I still haven't
gotten the taste of Morbius out of my mouth.
And so I'm glad we're doing a new episode. I
did re -listen to it today just to remember the
good times and all the laughs we had. Sure, sure.
It was a fun episode. It was not a great movie.
And here's the thing. Listeners, you know this.
We picked Morbius kind of in a pinch. We did.
So with that said, it's not like a purely Disney
movie, right? It's a Sony production. Sure. Yes,
it's Marvel. It's a whole thing. Yeah. But the
shaggy dog. 100 % Disney. Like when you think
of live action Disney movies. Oh, man. This is
it. Classic. Classic Disney movie. We picked
it very intentionally because it's... So here's
a little background into my head of why I picked
this movie. So Vince and I were talking about
upcoming episodes. We were trying to figure out
what to do. And the newest release, the remake
of The Wolfman was coming out when we were talking
about this. And I was trying to rack my brain
like, what's Disney's answer to The Wolfman?
And immediately I was like, The Shaggy Dog. Is
obviously the answer. And I. My ignorant self
was like. Really? But then once I watched this
movie. Like they. They call it. They mention
lycanthropy. Which is werewolfism. Like this
is a bonafide. Werewolf movie. As much as you
can get. Without saying werewolf, it's a weredog
movie, I suppose. I'm so glad I've convinced
you of this because you... I'm here for it. I'm
in love with it. We both thought it was a funny
idea, but I was like, trust me, I promise you,
this is their answer to The Wolfman. Oh, good
stuff. Okay, so do you have... So was this your
first foray into The Shaggy Dog, watching it
for this recording? Or had you seen it before
as a kid? Or what's your history with The Shaggy
Dog? I had never seen it. I'd always heard about
it. Yeah. But no, I'd never seen it before. I
remember the Tim Allen movie being released,
though I never saw that one either. And what
do you know? It's not even streaming on Disney
Plus. Did you know that? So you and everybody
else did not see the movie, The Shaggy Dog, starring
Tim Allen. Yeah. So, I mean, I read into it.
There's a reason, I guess, Disney. I mean, that's
a whole thing. Disney, you know. Keep things
from people. They do. They are good at sweeping
movies that they're not proud of under the rug.
But it's like, I don't know what you're talking
about. That never happened. Let it fly. Come
on. I agree. I actually think that just be, I
mean, I know there's only enough, there's only
so much room on platforms like Disney Plus to
hold house movies. But it's like, I don't know.
Why fully hide some of these movies? It makes
no sense. Because it's not available anywhere,
I don't think, the remake of The Shaggy Dog.
But anyways. Yeah. Neither here nor there. Okay.
So yeah, I actually do remember watching this
movie as a kid. My dad is a huge fan of these
old classic Disney movies, of any old movie,
like anything black and white. My dad has seen
it for sure. But he definitely introduced me
to the Shaggy Dog when I was a kid. And I remember
watching it again for this episode. I was like,
oh man, this is fully coming back to me. But
there were a lot of things that flew over my
head as a kid, like the lycanthropy and shape
-shifting conversation. And I was like, that
just fully went over my head as a kid. I just
remember watching The Dog because it was the
cutest part of the movie. And, you know, that's
what kids latched onto. So they made a movie.
They strangely made a movie that was for kids
and adults at the exact same time, which is pretty
hard to do. I mean, I'm sure we'll get into it.
But this movie is, I read a review. It's like
three movies in one. Yeah. You've got like this
gothic. haunted house spooky vibes in the beginning
and then it becomes a coming of age story where
we really focus on the teenagers and then the
last third of the movie is a cold war thriller
strangely eyes yep i mean i guess which makes
sense but given the time it was released like
the cold war was happening at this time and so
it was sort of infused in a lot of movies back
then but this was like very blatant like a spy
Thriller at the end of the movie. I loved it.
Yeah. I just wasn't expecting it in my Disney
movie. For sure. For sure. Okay. So in Disney
history, this is, for those keeping track, this
is Disney's actually, interestingly, their very
first foray into live action comedies. They had
been producing live action movies since 1950,
I believe, with the... Treasure Island was their
very first live -action movie. Ten years later,
then, they realized that comedies are starting
to become a thing that people are going to. It's
not just for TV anymore. People want to go to
the movies to see comedies. And so Disney, this
is their answer to a comedy for families as well.
And they pulled out all the stars for this one
at the time. Everybody who was a name, either
on TV or a Disney kid, was in this movie. They
were not pulling any punches here when it came
to the cast. And it's a pretty stellar cast,
too, I have to say. So I'll just go through them
really quickly here, and then I'll let you talk
about the production crew, Vincent. First off,
we have Fred McMurray as Wilson Daniels, the
father. Just a huge Disney's name. This was his
first Disney movie, but he later became a huge
Disney's dad, basically. He was in The Absent
-Minded Professor, Son of Flubber, The Happiest
Millionaire, lots and lots of things. My Three
Sons was one of his biggest TV shows. Huge, huge
star at the time. We have Tommy Kirk, who is
playing Will B. Daniels, a .k .a. the Shaggy
Dog, the oldest son of Fred McBury's character.
He was Disney's It Kid for a very long time.
He was in Old Yeller, Swiss Family Robinson,
The Misadventures of Merlin Jones. The list goes
on. He was front and center in Disney history
at this time, so he was the star of the show.
We go on and have Kevin Corcoran as Moochie Daniels,
the younger brother, another Disney kid, old
the other, Pollyanna, Swiss Family Robinson,
the Mickey Mouse Club. Interestingly, his character's
name is Moochie in this movie, and he was forever
then known as Moochie from then on. No one really
called him Kevin Corcoran anymore. They just
called him Moochie going forward. Even, I think,
on the Mickey Mouse Club, he was listed as Moochie
instead of Kevin Corcoran, which is interesting.
We have Annette Funicello, huge Mickey Mouse
Club star at the time, everyone's dream girl,
girl next door. She went on to do Babes in Toyland
and basically all of the beach party bingo movies
with Frankie Avalon that you can think of. She
was probably in it, Annette Funicello. Moving
on, then we have Roberta Shore as Francesca Andersey,
who is sort of the love interest girl next door,
another Mickey Mouse Club kid. We have Cecil
Calloway as Professor Plumcott. Not a huge role
in the movie, and he was not really a Disney
actor either, but he was a big actor at the time.
He had just, I believe... recently won the Academy
Award for his role in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner.
No, he didn't win. He was nominated for the Academy
Award for his role in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner.
And then rounding out the cast, we have Tim Considine
as Buzz Miller, Will B.'s sort of best friend,
question mark, known for his role in The Hardy
Boys. And then he went on to do My Three Sons
with Fred McMurray. And then we have Jean Hagen
as Frida Daniels, the mother, the matriarch of
the family. This was also her only Disney credit.
but she was a big actress at the time. She was
nominated for an Oscar as Lena Lamont in Singing
in the Rain. A lot of people might remember her
from that. So big, big, huge cast. Yeah. Lots
of, like you said, young Disney stars. You're
certainly the expert in that realm. I had to
do a double take with Jean Hagen. Not sure there,
but I watched this movie with, I watched the
Shaggy Dog with Elle and my wife. And I said,
that's, you know who that is? And she was like,
well, she didn't know, but she needed a reminder.
And I was like. what am I dumb or something?
And I just felt very proud of myself for making
it. I was like, there she is. Well, I mean, that
was an iconic role. Like everyone who loves that
movie and it just, yeah, she's so great in it.
Absolutely. So good. Cecil Kellaway, he, the
decade prior had been nominated for another movie.
He plays a leprechaun in a fantasy movie called
The Luck of the Irish. That's right. I've never
seen it. Yeah. Sounds like it's a Disney movie,
but it's not. Was the TV movie. That's what I'm
thinking of. The Disney Channel original. Sure.
Luck of the Irish. Very different motion picture.
Very different. Then, yeah, he was nominated
for Guess Who's Coming to Dinner a decade, well,
in the 60s. It was like 1967. That's when it
was. Okay. Yeah. My timeline is off. And then
Fred McMurray at this time. This was his first
Disney movie, like you said, but he'd been a
long, he'd had a long history playing mostly
supporting roles. He has the lead in Double Indemnity,
which is one of the best film noirs ever made.
And it's great to see him play against type because
he has a very fatherly figure. But when you see
him in darker roles, like Double Indemnity, it
works really well. So, he does have some pretty
good range. But obviously found his true calling
with these Disney movies. Yeah, he kind of reminds
me of like a poor man's Gregory Peck a little
bit. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think I read
Gregory Peck. Disney maybe originally offered
Peck the role, this role, this father role. I
can see it. It's funny you mentioned that. Yeah.
Interesting. Yeah, I can see that happening for
sure. But Fred McMurray was cheaper. For sure,
for sure. And this act made him a household name,
though, after he did Shaggy Dog, for sure. Right.
Amazing, amazing. The knockoff Gregory Peck.
That's right. If only, I wish. I wish someone
would say that about me. Yeah, talk about the
crew then a little bit behind the camera. This
movie was directed by Charles. Barton this was
his one and only Disney credit although I did
search his name and I found a movie called Toby
Tyler okay that is apparently from Disney again
they're hiding stuff from us then because you
can click on the link there's a whole Wikipedia
page Toby Tyler or 10 Weeks with a Circus. It
looks absolutely nightmarish. There's a giant
clown and a monkey with a gun. Oh, my God. Are
you looking at this? No, thank you. Whoa. Well,
let's see. It's produced by Walt Disney Productions,
Buena Vista Distribution from 1960. That's a
Disney picture. Yikes. Okay. I'm going to have
to look into this movie. This might be our next
Magic and Monsters. I bet it's on Disney Plus.
It has to be, right? Well, I don't know. No,
it's not. Crazy. Okay, good to know. I wouldn't
mind them sweeping this one under the rug. It
looks horrifying. Well, Charles Barton did actually
have... an association with horror as well as
comedy. He directed, he was a studio director,
like a director for hire. He directed a ton of
Abbott and Costello movies, most of which I've
never seen, most of which most people haven't
seen. But one that a lot of people have seen
is Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein from
1948. Truly not just me fanboying, but one of
the funniest movies ever made. And if you like
young Frankenstein, you're going to like this
movie. It's all the classic monsters with Abbott
and Costello and hilarity ensues. Yeah, it's
worth a watch for sure. And then a lesser known
film that I want to plug is Abbott and Costello
meet the killer Boris Karloff. That's the name
of the movie. Boris Karloff is the star. He does
not play himself, but it's like a thriller comedy.
If you find it, check it out. Good to know. I'll
look that up. I actually love Abbott and Costello.
They're, I mean, genius, genius, groundbreaking
comedy. Yeah. And Charles Barton, I guess, had
a hand in a lot of their success on the screen.
Obviously, he's the director. So, he's well suited
for something like The Shaggy Dog. I was laughing
out loud all the time. And then I made the connection.
I was like, oh. I guess there's a reason I'm
laughing so much. The physical comedy in this
movie is pretty great. And the timing is so great
as well for their first venture into a comedy
ever for Disney. I was like, it was impressive
how things that they pulled off back in 1950.
I mean, like the effects even were pretty remarkable
in this movie. So well done to Charles Barton.
Oh, yeah. I can't wait to talk about the effects
in a little bit. So. Well, just, I might as well
do that now. So, an actor you didn't mention
was Sammy the dog. Yeah, fair enough. Plays the
old sheep dog, the titular shaggy dog. That's
right. That's right. Incredible dog. Like, crazy.
Crazy the stunts that this dog was doing. And
most of it is him. I don't, Patrick, apologies
if I'm getting ahead of myself. No, no. I don't
know if you've written any of this stuff down,
but. No. I was actually surprised to read that
most of the dog you see. is Sammy doing his own
tricks. It's one dog. They had originally planned
to cast three dogs, but Sammy was so talented.
He just did it all. He even drives the car. Not
really, but that is the actual dog sitting in
the steering wheel. Yeah. There's a driver hidden
under the hood, but that's the dog behind a wheel,
which is like what everyone talks about. It's
pretty remarkable, the shot that they get of
that dog driving the car. Pretty remarkable.
And I have to say, I didn't look into it. I should
have. But the puppetry, though, so there are
some scenes, some close -up shots where the dog
is talking. And the puppet of the dog that they're
using, I have to say, is pretty incredible for
1959 standards. A couple of times I was like,
wait, is that the dog with peanut butter in its
mouth? Or is that a puppet? And sometimes you
didn't know. I didn't know some scenes which
one was the puppet and which one was the dog.
So I was very impressed with what they did with
all these special effects, puppetry, and the
actual dog. It was very impressive, even for
Chinese standards. There were a couple of scenes
with an actor in a dog suit. Even so, like just
the blend, the combination of techniques. Yeah.
Really impressive. Very impressive. I think it
sells it completely. Yeah. There's no way I could
do that today with, you know, like with what
knowledge I have of filmmaking, I still couldn't
have pulled off what they were doing. It was
incredible. Gotcha. Gotcha. I think you and I
could actually play dogs though for about the
same size as a sheep dog. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
I can play Sandy and Annie today. You know, tall
people can never play a dog, but we could. That's
absolutely right. Absolutely right. I am. I am
notoriously known as the size of a sheepdog.
So there we are. Oh, boy. So The Shaggy Dog was
written by Bill Walsh and Lily Hayward. Walsh
wrote The Love Bug and The Absent -Minded Professor
and co -produced Mary Poppins. Hayward wrote
for the Zorro TV series. The music in The Shaggy
Dog was composed by Paul J. Smith, also did music
for Snow White, Cinderella, Peter Pan, and Bambi,
for which he won an Oscar. And I must say, when
I revisited Bambi a few years ago, the score
stands out. It's just really almost experimental
in the way it's incorporated with the visuals
too. It's just kind of like a symphony of sound,
if you will. Yeah, he's known for writing these
compositions that are basically another character
in the movie. And actually, I mean, you don't
notice the music a ton in The Shaggy Dog, but
when it's there, it fits it. It's very complementary
to exactly what's going on in the movie. So it's
pretty cool what he does. So what do you say?
Let's give a quick – I have a little plot scene
breakdown of the movie, and you can – stop me
whenever you want to Vincent, or I can just plow
through the whole thing. Uh, if something strikes
your fancy is something you want to talk about
specifically. Otherwise I'll just, well, I was
wondering if, if, yeah, we wanted to take our
time through this and relive the moments. Absolutely.
Absolutely. This is a movie I wish, well, I did
not see it alone, so I'm really glad, but I would,
I would also watch this movie with a group of
people who are slightly inebriated because It's
just a hoot. That's a perfect word for it. It
is a hoot of a movie, I have to say. Oh, my gosh.
It's just a delight. It's a delight of a movie.
Okay, yeah, fair enough. Okay, so we open up
with a classic 1950s, 1960s sort of opening credits
with this animated, or was it, I couldn't tell
if it was like stop motion, claymation kind of.
Anyways, these opening credits with the Shaggy
Dog and this. Just wonderful, wonderful, very
50s and 60s Shaggy Dog theme song where they're
basically just saying, Shaggy Dog, Shaggy Dog.
I mean, it's just horribly written, but so delightful
at the same time. So delightful. Monster movie
connection here. Yeah. This was a fad in these
types of movies to have a tie -in theme song.
Because it's all marketing, right? You want to
make... sure that you're now on the radio and
you have a number one hit for sure oh like 1958's
the blob has its own theme song written by burt
baccarat oh my gosh yeah on my halloween playlist
and there's like the purple people eater there's
there's like a whole it was a thing so the shaggy
dog fits right in with the the overall tenor
of the times absolutely absolutely uh okay so
theme song happens uh the film then opens on
this very classic 1950s suburb with uh strangely
a narrator in the very beginning that we never
hear from again ever again that's you know you're
right wow you're bringing it back yeah yeah but
it's very like 1950s suburban yeah um Yeah, exactly.
Just setting the scene for us. So the narrator
introduces us to Wilson Daniels, played by Fred
McBurry. We learn that he's a retired mailman
with an aversion to dogs. He itches and hates
dogs and he doesn't like them. AKA, he's a mailman.
Very classic. Setting up for a comedy. He's trying
to enjoy a quiet morning with his wife, but his
peace is shattered when he spots a stray dog
on the lawn, which reignites his sort of canine
-related anxieties. Just very, very setting the
scene for this. He's having breakfast with his
wife, and then there's an explosion. So, meanwhile,
we'll be Daniels. Were you going to say something,
Vincent? The explosion. You're understating it
there, my friend. Fair, fair. Okay, so we learn
that Wilby and his brother, Moochie, are in the
basement experimenting on some sort of a missile
project that doesn't seem to concern the mom
at all. As you do, right? It's Cold War, baby.
We all got missiles. That's right. That's right.
And so then the house starts to shake. And you're
right, Vincent, when I say shake, I mean, it's
just, it's as though they're on a ship at sea
and everything is just shattering, just comic
gold for physical comedy. Like they're catching
plates off of tables. It's very Mary Poppins
when the cannon goes off in Mary Poppins. It's
very Disney, I felt like. Very much so. Everything
is a practical set piece that is shaking. I'm
sure there were like a... 10 or 11 men behind
the scenes just moving everything at the same
time. It was pretty funny. It was pretty funny.
So we learned that this experiment is clearly
going wrong. And Wilby and his brother managed
to launch a missile from the house straight up
into the sky, out of the house, destroying the
roof. I imagine the inside of the house too,
but the next time we see the house, it's very
put together. What happened to the missile? No
idea. Oh my gosh. It just launches into space
and we've never seen it again. They could have
set off World War III with that thing. This may
be what ended the Cold War. Who knows? I have
no idea. It's pretty wild. It's pretty wild.
The dad is reasonably upset with Wilby. And he
tells him he's done with this. He has to clean
out the basement. No more experiments. You can't
be a smart kid anymore. You can't be a curious
kid anymore. Very just sort of trying to stifle
him a little bit. So the next scene we have is
Wilby's friend, I guess. They keep calling him
his friend, but they are clearly they don't like
each other. But his friend Buzz. Pulls up, speeds
up in his car to take out the neighbor girl,
Allison, played by Annette Fulicello, out on
a date. The two argue over which of them gets
to take her out until suddenly this new neighbor
arrives, Dr. Mikhail Andrusy and his adopted
daughter, strangely, Francesca, and their shaggy
English sheepdog, Chiffon, who's adorable. You
immediately fall in love with this dog. But you
also immediately know, uh -oh, there's a dog
next door. Things are starting to boil over already.
Two thoughts, Patrick. Yeah. One more missile
thought. The kids and it's the aftermath. The
kids are fixing the roof. This is true. Yeah.
Yeah. With like plaster and brushes. Oh, wow.
Kids. I mean, we have it easy these days. Kids
back then had to fix their own roofs. Yeah. There
was like a 15 year old and a seven year old on
the roof fixing it. not doing a great job either
because they almost hit the dad in the head with
a hammer uh it's yeah it's just it's wonderful
it's just and then you know just keeping in the
spirit of recklessness yeah buzz pulls up in
like this hot rod like think of beach boys he's
just like this souped up really cool looking
car but you know yeah no seat belts and also
he and the other kids they look like they're
14 15 years old and i say that because i'm used
to seeing teenagers played by adults so like
a 15 year old looks older but in the shaggy dog
no they got like legit teenagers right oh yeah
yeah all these kids yeah they were mickey the
mickey mouse club was in this movie basically
they look like babies yeah for sure i both love
and also find distracting oh interesting okay
fair yeah you're driving this car you're doing
all these things but like you're such a baby
you're a baby yeah that is an interesting sign
of the times is in that in that era like people
were cast based on the age that they actually
were strangely yeah and they were good too like
the kids were good actors in this in this movie
even little moochie he was like seven eight years
old i thought he was great in this movie yeah
just a thought Yeah, no, I love that. That's
a really good point. Okay, so this new girl,
Francesca, arrives and suddenly Will B and Buzz
are no longer interested in Allison, played by
Annette Funchal. Or Allison at first. I mean,
she gets her, you know, she comes out on top
in the end. She figures it out. Yeah, she kind
of wins in the end, but she just is cast aside
immediately. By their newfound affection for
Francesca, who speaks French. So apparently that
makes her sexy, I guess, in this movie. She's
sophisticated, I guess, is what they're both
sort of attracted to. French equals fancy, sophisticated.
Yes. Two dum -dums who stutter over their words
when they first meet her. Right. Oh, no, because
they think she only speaks French. That's right.
So they start speaking as you would to somebody
in a foreign language, like, hello, I saved dog,
or something like that. And Francesca, right,
Francesca? Yes. Yeah. She says to her butler
or her father, she's like, oh, he's like, who
are these young men? And she's like, oh, these
are two Indians I just met. Oh, boy. And me,
because I'm a product of a higher... more sophisticated
humor i thought she meant like india indian sure
no that is not what she meant no no it's it's
a sobering reminder of uh just casual racism
casual racism a sign of the times absolutely
yeah i was like oh i yeah that would we okay
i guess they they did they sure did i mean to
point out again i mean not a person of color
to be seen in this movie that is you know it
is these days it is very distracting now to see
something like that of like oh my gosh this is
just i mean again though 1959 it that it wasn't
okay but it was what it was you know yeah no
that joke just was like extremely dated and i
was like very goodness gracious yeah It was luckily
the only instance, though, I feel like in the
movie that I was that I bumped up against with
something like that. Yeah. Thanks, Sammy, the
sheepdog in all his glory. Very distracting.
Yeah. Yeah. OK, sure. Sorry. No, no, we're good.
OK, OK. So they both fall in love with Francesca.
She invites them into her house where they're
unpacking. And it's just full of these rare antiques
and art pieces. We learned that her adoptive.
father, Dr. McHale, has been hired to sort of
curate this local museum in town. While they're
looking at all these artifacts, there's a painting
that Wilby notices, which has a dog who looks
exactly like Chiffon. She gives this sort of
explanation of the Borgia's family, and apparently
there's some witchcraft in there, and this particular
sheepdog is a very rare dog and maybe has some
mystical elements to it, but they don't... seem
to notice or care about that story at all they
just move on with their lives immediately from
that like okay nope no big deal uh but they do
all decide because uh will be as a big nerd uh
they all decide to go to the museum uh to see
all the actual artifacts that are already there
that's being curated uh they get separated and
will be on his own for a little bit and he runs
into professor plumcott who i he has some sort
of Passed with, he taught him science or something.
I can't remember what it was, but it didn't matter.
But he works at the museum is all we need to
know. Right. He's the authority on the Borgias.
The Borgias family. The Borgias family. From
Italy, I believe, right? Yeah. So Plumcott is
Mr. Exposition here. Yes, exactly. Who gives
this really. dark story about dark magic and
sorcery and shapeshifting and lycanthropy like
it's wild like the words that he's throwing at
uh will be who's just sort of like okay old man
you're cute love it good story i gotta go um
on this this scene is really the lighting in
this scene is is really awesome with the use
of shadows and and darkness and it really gives
that sense of gothic nature like a gothic haunted
house yeah so yeah definitely a horror movie
in these yeah i think even the music turns like
it starts to use like an organ sort of music
underneath a little bit and so it's a little
bit haunted you know something sort of a foul
is about to happen in fact it does so on its
way out will be knocks over this table of jewelry
because that's where you leave all the really
priceless jewelry is just sitting on a table
in the middle of a museum, just willy nilly.
It's just totally fine. As they're cleaning up,
he accidentally walks off with this ring that
has fallen into the cuff of his jeans. So back
home while cleaning up, he discovers this ring
and there's an inscription on the inside of it,
which he reads aloud, which you're always supposed
to do when you find a mysterious ring. It's in
Latin. It says in Canis. corpore transmuto uh
he says that out loud and he puts the ring on
which again you're always supposed to do in a
movie otherwise you can't go on through life
so this sort of sets into the motion this curse
i guess is what you could call it uh of him transforming
into chiffon the dog from next door which there's
some plot holes here in which because the dog
fully disappears from wherever it is and sort
of becomes will be oh yeah yeah it's not will
be becoming a dog no yeah chiffon disappears
like fades into the ether yes and becomes will
be it's it's wild but i have to say and maybe
you'll disagree with me but it was giving very
sort of, I was a teenage werewolf kind of vibes
or Wolfman vibes a little bit when he starts
to very first transform, like you just see tufts
of hair a little bit, it goes white a little
bit, but they do it very slowly at first. And
then all of a sudden he sort of ducks down to
pick up the ring that he dropped and he comes
back up and he's got a dog face fully. And it's
like, Oh, that's kind of cool. Matt, you know,
some, some trick of the trade here. Well, yeah,
I mean, Comparatively, the special effects to
the Wolfman. Right. There is no compare. Like
the Wolfman was very like some trick photography.
Yeah. In the Shaggy Dog, it's the actor ducks
down behind a piece of furniture. Yes. You know,
to hide him putting on some makeup real quick
and then he comes back up and it's just like
some less technical savviness but nonetheless
effective, right? It's just... it fits the bill
for a family movie like this is for sure it's
very theatrical you could almost see like oh
this could maybe be a stage play if like if you
did it the way that they did it in the movie
it was fairly simple but very effective yeah
at the same time and just the close -ups of him
too of his face in horror sometimes i was like
oh okay i see what you're doing here yeah good
job good job OK, so he turns into the dog and
he realizes immediately that he needs to go see
the professor. He's like, oh, this he told me
exactly what was going to happen. So he goes
to the professor who's not thrown for one second.
He's just like, hey, hey, professor. He's a dog
at this time. He turns around. Mind you. Yeah.
Full on dog. Full on dog. And the professor's
like, oh, yeah, I thought that might happen.
Or it was just like he just did not care at all.
useless advice he could ever give a child who
should be frightened out of his mind. It's wild.
He just basically says, well, you're cursed.
It'll probably come in and out. You may not always
be a dog, but you're not always going to be human.
This is so Disney. The only way the curse can
be broken is through a heroic act of selflessness.
So Disney. I mean, where did this come from?
Yeah. That's not a thing in any sort of way.
It's so just like, and I'm not knocking it, but
it's just so basic. It's so basic and easy. But
in that, it's really charming. It's just like,
well, you got to do this. But we do see this
through line in Disney. going forward like like
the perfect example of this is is beauty and
the beast like the beast can never become human
again unless he learns to fully love and so that's
sort of the same kind of a curse basically that
it has to be broken by true love's kiss or what
have you and this is how they do it it's very
disney yeah i i am always a fan of just hey if
it works stick with it why not why why try to
complicate a movie like the shaggy dog Honestly,
you would paint yourself into a corner trying
to come up with like lore and different rules.
It's like, no, X, Y, Z. This is what you got
to do. We'll see you at the end of the movie.
Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. I mean, to be honest,
though, it is perfectly set up. It's a classic
comedy, right? Like it starts off with just some
you immediately get sort of the danger in the
beginning or like the whatever they have to figure
out. You get hijinks in the middle of it. And
they get thrown up in a tree. And then the third
act is they get out of the tree. Like, it's just
very, like, this is A, B, and C of a comedy.
And it's simple and doesn't have to be overly
complicated. Like you said, it's great. And we
never see Professor Plumcott again. Ever again.
Ever again. I thought he was going to be a main
character. Just like a mentor. They clearly had
him for one day of shooting. And they were like,
this is what we got, sir. We have two pages of
dialogue for you. And you're out. That's a wrap
on Professor Plumcott. Hey, Oscar nominee Professor
Plumcott. That's all they could afford. They
could afford 48 minutes. And that's what they
got. All right. So Moochie, or not Moochie, but
Wilby takes this to heart and he heads home where
there's this wonderful scene of him going to
bed. He shares a bedroom with his brother, Moochie.
There's this just incredible scene of the dog
getting ready for bed, like fully taking out
pajamas from the drawer, brushing his teeth,
putting on the pajamas, using the toilet and
flushing it. It's so good. I loved this scene
so much. I thought it doesn't get better than
this, but it does get better. But it's such a
perfect scene. And that's all Sammy, the dog.
It's incredible. It's really incredible. Yeah.
And I mean, I need a sheepdog in pajamas in my
life because it's the cutest thing in the entire
world. And I read that they took a bunch of publicity
photos of the dog in different costumes that
they never used in the movie. Like the dog wearing
a bonnet and curled up in bed. So good. It's
beautiful. It's perfect comedy. I love it. And
I don't know. really interested in seeing the
2006 remake because I want to see how they approach
the story and what's the level of CGI, which
I just assume is part of the overall product.
Because like, I don't know, without seeing the
Tim Allen movie, if you're not using a real animal
in these scenes, why do I care? as as gold as
the story is why we're still talking about this
movie yeah i think is because of the dog it's
so charming right you can't you can't replicate
it's just yeah it's it's wonderful yeah this
this scene alone i think wins wins me over for
the shaggy dog is him getting ready for bed as
in as as the dog it's just it's wonderful i i
have to imagine audiences were howling no pun
intended at this scene back in 1959 booting and
hollering because this had never i mean this
was a wild idea first of all for for a movie
but like clearly never before Has this been attempted
before? You know, it's just wonderful. It's magic.
It's magic. It's absolute magic. Yeah. Movie
magic. That's it. And it's specifically Disney
magic, too, I have to say. Like, it's very Disney.
And they took a big swing and they hit it out
of the park, I thought, with this movie, with
all these special effects. Okay. So the dog goes
to bed, wakes up, still a dog, where Moochie
then discovers that his brother is now a dog.
He doesn't. seem too plussed by it he's just
like oh cool you're a dog and he like refalls
in love with his brother it's very adorable actually
that he finally can relate to his brother in
a different way uh because they are still brothers
but he like loves this dog so much it's it's
really endearing to the point of almost forgetting
that his brother is the dog like Me and Ellen
were screaming, Moochie, you can't just put a
collar and a leash on your brother. You can't.
Yeah. There's a point where Moochie is a little
delusional and thinks that the dog is the dog
and his brother is like just gone out of his
life. Yeah. He's all in. He's all in on the dog.
For sure. So as they're sort of bonding, I guess,
as now brother and dog, they remember suddenly
how much they're. Dad hates dogs. And then they
have to work together to hide Wilby's curse.
There is some gun violence in this movie now.
Oh, yeah. Hell yeah, brother. Dad's got a shotgun.
You best look out. Blammo. It comes out of nowhere.
It's just wild that he has a shotgun in the whole
closet. But he hates dogs so much, apparently,
that when he sees this dog, his first instinct
is to get a gun and shoot blindly into the neighborhood
at it. It's low -key unhinged. Like, what if
your neighbor just shot your dog? Because your
dog went into their yard. That's what we're talking
about here. He had zero Fs to give. He just shot.
the dog not a good shot either because he did
nowhere near the dog it was oh oh boy oh boy
okay so We then spend a majority of the movie.
I won't go into every single detail. Watch it
for yourself. But with these dog to human hijinks,
it's actually really great. The hiding from the
dog, hiding from the dad that he is a dog, trying
to convince people of this new spy subplot that
we hear about later on in the movie. There's
some great scenes with the dog speaking out loud
to this policeman. It's kind of a through line
in the movie just for a comic's sake and convincing
the policeman that he's a little bit insane.
It's great. We mentioned putting his pajamas
on, brushing his teeth. He's using telephones.
He's climbing in and out of houses. It's just
this wonderful physical comedy all done by a
dog, which is great. And you can tell that I
guess I wasn't there, obviously. It seems that
they took great care of the dog too. Like you
never thought that the dog was in danger during
this movie. Yeah. It seems like it was well done
and the dog was very loving and loved as well.
So I will, I should say that out loud. Yeah.
For, for listeners of Camp Kaiju and Patrick
and Gays Do The D, I have some really great links
that I found on the background of behind the
scenes working with Sammy the dog. I'll share
with you. I'll share them in Camp Kaiju show
notes for this episode. Wonderful. Yeah, some
really good insight. Love it. Love it. Yeah,
we get a filler scene with this country club
dance where Buzz is trying to date both of the
girls, Francesca and Allison, at the same time,
but they both end up trying to win over Willoughby.
Classic. Just a classic. Classic. They are throwing
every gimmick they can at this movie for laughs,
and it works, but not all of it was necessary,
but it was still fun. You know, what are you
going to do? So at one point in the movie, towards
the end of the movie, finally, after all of this
filler fun stuff in dog form, we'll be over here
as Dr. Andersey and this creepy guy who keeps
coming over to their house plotting to steal
these government secrets. It's called like Experiment
23 or I can't remember. Section 23. Because I
think the town, it seems to me like a government
town almost. Sure. If you're well -to -do, you're
probably working in this agency research lab
that's nearby. That was my understanding, maybe
based on other movies and things. Got it. So
there's clearly a top -secret facility within
proximity of the town. Yeah. It's never fully
explained, nor need it be, I guess. All you need
to know is that there are some spies in the town.
And that is enough to set alarms off. So he tries
to go and tell his dad, but Moochie actually
tries to tell his dad at first and he brushes
him off. And so they decide, okay, it's time
to loop in dad on the secret that I'm a dog.
To an interesting effect, Gays to the D listeners
will appreciate this. He basically has to come
out to his father as a dog. Yeah. In this scene,
you know what I mean? And the dad's reaction
is very classic. what you might expect he says
there's some line about like oh i thought i raised
you better or something like that than to be
a dog or whatever it's it's really interesting
actually i don't know that they were necessarily
trying to make that point or trying to make that
parallel but i pulled it out for sure as somebody
who is gay of like oh yeah this is a coming out
story kind of him telling his dad that he's a
dog i i i respect and appreciate that perspective
so much i'd love to hear more about that Shapeshifting
stories often are about sexuality. Yeah. Yeah.
Whatever category that might be. But yeah, like
I was examining this movie through a lens of
either coming out or puberty or just anxiety
about being an awkward teenager. Sure. Yeah.
So, yeah, I'd love to hear more about your thoughts
later on. And that scene, though, when he is.
And I think, as you say, I think that's that's
totally fair coming out to his father. I mean,
mind you, his father is willing to shoot dogs
like it's not played like a serious drama. Right.
But you could like the stakes could be that high.
Yeah. But Fred McMurray, he's so he's reading
his newspaper and it's just. The comedy is so
well played. He's not looking at his dog son,
who's right next to him, probably like in his
periphery. He's just reading his paper and he's
like, yeah, son. Oh, sure. I'll, you know, I'll
always be there for you. He says something to
the effect of like, you could tell me anything.
Yeah. Yeah. The moment happens where, you know,
he like does a double take to his left and sees
his dog son. he doesn't fly off the handle right
in fact he's willing to go to the feds with the
spy intel yeah and and is willing to to tell
everybody no my dog or sorry my son is a dog
who told me this he doesn't back away from that
story i found that like wow you're really sticking
out for your son here despite how insane you
are sounding now. And they want to keep him for
psychological tests and hilarity ensues. But,
but I, I read like, wow, I see a father, you
know, kind of sticking up for his son after giving
him so much crap throughout this entire movie.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, and part of
that is, is like, there's the, you know, the
adage of like, Sometimes just to convince somebody
that something's okay, they need to know somebody
who is gay or trans or whatever it is that you're
trying to convince them of. Once they know somebody,
then they're more apt to be on board with it.
exactly what happens in this movie like once
he realizes his son is a dog the thing he hates
most he's suddenly okay with dogs you know it's
like oh okay yeah interesting interesting well
played well played is it i don't know if that
was their intention but that's exactly what they
did so they did do that and we noticed and we
sure did it only helps the movie yeah absolutely
absolutely uh okay so yeah as you said uh He
tells him about the spy thing. The dad's like
all in. He's on board with it to the to the point
of like being examined by psychiatrists and everything.
We we get this climax at the end of the movie
then. So there's this high speed chase involving
will be as the dog. driving after the next door
neighbor and the creepy guy who have now kidnapped
the daughter. We don't really know why they kidnap
her, but it seems nefarious. For some reason,
they have to get rid of all traces that they
were there or something. I don't know exactly
what the reason was, but they had to get rid
of the girl for some reason. Well, yeah. I mean,
I guess ostensibly she is his daughter, right?
Yeah. But he doesn't seem to love her anymore.
Like, he seems very like, eh, if she dies, she
dies, you know? Yeah, he flips a switch pretty
quick. Very quickly. Yeah. It's a little creepy
as well, I have to say, when they kidnap her.
Like, there's some violence in there that I was
like, oh, I don't know if I'm okay with that.
Yeah. I mean, the whole thing is dark when Bilby
finds himself in trouble because he is Chiffon.
Yeah. He inadvertently finds himself in the room
where the spies are plotting. But of course,
as you could expect, the curse wears off in the
next scene. So the spies now just see a teenage
kid in the room and they discuss like getting
rid of him. Yeah. I'm like, this is dark. Yeah.
I'm here for it. It does go dark. I like to take
my family, my family, my quote unquote family
entertainment. I want to treat it seriously,
and this is what would happen. For sure. For
sure. Okay, so there's a high -speed chase. The
police are chasing Wilby. Wilby's chasing him.
Sometimes Wilby's chasing the police. There's
some really funny car antics here. Very Car 54,
where are you? It's pretty funny. So it all culminates
on this boat where Francesca is thrown overboard
from the boat into the water and will be still
in dog form, dives into the water, rescuing her,
pulling her onto shore, thus fulfilling his requirement
as an act of selflessness to break the curse.
He turns back into a human form. Chiffon is back.
Nobody believes that Willoughby, except for the
dad, but he never, for some reason, decides not
to tell people that he was a dog anymore, believes
that Willoughby had anything to do with saving
the day. It all goes to the dog. All the gratitude
goes to the dog, goes to the dad, goes to Moochie.
But Willoughby, once again, is just left on the
sidelines as an awkward teenager just trying
to get through life. Can we unpack this ending?
Like, honestly, how did this movie leave you
feeling? it's it was really unsatisfying actually
for will be you know like justice for will be
i was mad i'm still mad about this ending i know
i know will be yeah it just because like again
we had this great moment of father son and then
father completely goes back to disregarding will
be moochie all of a sudden is in all these like
fame and fortune publicity photos because the
news is all over this. Hey, sir, we want to get
a photo with you and your son. And the son he
picks is Moochie. I'm like, that little... dingbat
like i was so mad because i hated moochie so
much oh i thought he was cute sorry hates a strong
word you can cut that out no i had strong feelings
against moochie that's fair that's fair that's
fair you know it's it sort of i mean i guess
at the end of the day like it spoke to will be's
character that he didn't really care about any
of the like he just was on his own adventure
i guess and he was you know just trying to get
through the day basically as a dog and a kid
and and And he was a hero, but he didn't need
to be the hero, I guess. And so it spoke to his
character, but it was a little, I was like, is
he being gaslit here? Like, is he like, none
of this ever happened. Will we remember? And
it's never, you're just an average kid. Don't
say anything. Everything's fine. Yeah. So what
are you going to do? It doesn't take away from
my overall love of this movie. Yeah. It's just,
I, again, I was, I was so invested. Patrick,
I just cared so much for Will B. Yeah. That I
didn't like seeing him short -shifted like that.
It's fair. It's fair. Yeah. I'll be interested
to see whatever the people have to say about
it. Like, was it a good ending or should there
have been a different ending? Like, should he
have gotten his sort of just rewards at the end
of it? Just like sitting with his dad. As easy
as that. Anything. Yeah. A hug from his dad or
something. And mom, she disappears. She fucking
disappears. Oscar nominee, Gene Hagen. They only
had her for a day. She was a day player. I also
just real quick. Yeah. One of my favorite scenes.
It's such a strange scene, but it subverts expectations.
Yeah. They're at a dinner table. They're talking
about going to this country club dance. And mom
suggests, Will B, why don't you ask a girl? Take
a girl. And dad says, well, why? Why does he
have to do that? He's too young to date, essentially.
I thought that was actually a really nice subversion
of expectations because normally I'd feel like
it would be the stern -headed father figure.
Interesting, yeah. And the mom saying, oh, he's
just shy, don't worry about it. Yeah. But it
was mom really pressing the heteronormativity.
Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's interesting,
yeah. The dad was just like, I don't care if
he doesn't need to do that. Why? For what? Just
stay here and polish your shotgun. Like what
else? Why do you need a girl? That's a really
good point. I like it. Fair enough. All right.
So, well, that was the plot of The Shaggy Dog.
As per usual, Vincent, what do you say we jump
into a little quiz related to The Shaggy Dog?
And then we'll close out with some last minute
thoughts and maybe some historical significance
for Disney and horror and why this crosses over
into both movies or into both genres. All right.
So, listeners. Yes. This is our third episode
of Magic and Monsters. Yes, it is. In round one,
who framed Roger Rabbit, Patrick won our quiz
show. I sure did. I sure did. By a lot, I think,
as well, in that first one. You spanked me. It
was an embarrassing... You know, it's because
I went easy on you. That's fair. That's fair.
So me and Patrick, we're going to each ask each
other three questions. And we're going to tally
the points at the end. So at the end of Roger
Rabbit, Patrick had three points. I had 1 .5.
Because Patrick wrote a wonky question. And we
agreed that I'd get half a point. That's right.
That's right. I was very generous with that.
Thank you. At the end of Morbius. which is where
we stand now. Patrick, you have three points,
and I have 3 .5. Okay. I did not do well in Morbius,
apparently. You didn't. It was a joy to revisit
that one. Wonderful. Wonderful. Okay, I'm excited
to hear what questions you have for me, because
I'm excited about my questions for you. Okay.
I'm nervous. I don't think... I think I went
easy on you again, but... You know, we're just
having fun here. We're not... We're having a
good time. We're having a good time. Not like
we're playing for our immortal souls or anything
like that. No, we're playing for a beer maybe
at some point. Okay. All right. All right. All
right. Who wants to go first? Do you want me
to ask you first or do you want to ask me first?
Why don't you go first? Okay. Are you ready for
your first question, Vincent? Hit me. So, Chiffon
isn't the only sheepdog in Disney's history.
There's another one. prominently featured in
which of these Disney movies? Is it Beauty and
the Beast, 101 Dalmatians, The Little Mermaid,
or The Great Mouse Detective? Yo, I can picture
that dog in more than one of those movies. You'd
be wrong because it's only in one movie. Oh,
no. Would it help if I gave you the name of the
dog? Well, what could help is I've given you,
in my questions, I've given you three options.
Oh, okay. So narrow it down to three? Yeah. Okay.
Okay. We're going to go ahead and eliminate Beauty
and the Beast. That was one of the two. Dang
it. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. So
what movie? Is this dog in? So remind me now
the three that I have. You have 101 Dalmatians,
The Little Mermaid, or The Great Mouse Detective.
101 Dalmatians I feel like is too obvious of
a guess. Okay. Little Mermaid, and I've never
seen The Great Mouse Detective. Shame. I'm going
to say The Little Mermaid. You are correct. It
is The Little Mermaid. Max. Max was the dog in
The Little Mermaid. That's right. And an adorable
dog. I have not seen that movie enough. I'm a
fan. No one has seen it enough. It's a great
movie. It's a great movie. All right. 4 .5 points
for me. Amazing. All right. Where's the first
question? Okay. First question. Sammy the dog
who plays the shaggy dog. Was so friendly on
set, he earned himself a special nickname. What
was his nickname on set? Oh, gosh. Was it A,
Makeup Eater? B, Mr. Frisky? Oh. Or C, Hammy
Sammy? Oh, they're all cute. I'm going to go
with... I feel like Mr. Frisky is a little too
risque for the 1950s. It's probably yet, though.
I'm going to go with makeup eater. I feel like
he was notorious for eating people, like licking
people's makeup off their faces. Ding, ding,
ding. You are correct. Hey. Amazing. Yeah, that
feels correct because I bet he was just like,
was it because he was licking people's faces
and they had to redo their makeup? Yeah. It was,
yeah. That's adorable. I love that. What's cuter
than that? Yeah, nothing. Nothing. Nothing is.
Turns out. I love it. All right. All right. Here
you go. You ready? Number two. Here we go. So
shape -shifting is actually a fairly common practice
in Disney movie history. In The Sword in the
Stone, Merlin turns Arthur into three different
animals during the movie. Which of these animals
does Arthur not turn into in The Sword in the
Stone? Oh my gosh. Is it? Does he not turn into
a fish? A squirrel? Or a fox? Fish, squirrel,
fox. I've never seen this movie. Oh, you're missing
out, man. It's a great movie. Based on this description
alone, I would agree. I'm thinking about Disney
movies. We've seen squirrels before, so they
might have just used their previous animation
papers. Sure, sure. Fish or fox? I'm going to
say he does not. turn into a fox you are correct
he doesn't turn into a fox i almost went fish
well done yeah no the fish is it's a great scene
too he almost gets eaten by a bigger fish it's
he learns lessons every time he turns into an
animal it's great it's a great movie cool high
recommend i know trust me i'm really soaking
in my i'm really using my disney plus account
these days um Yeah, I got a little kid and just
kind of that nostalgia. Yeah. I'm kind of thinking
about. So Shaggy Dog's on that list for sure.
Yeah, man. Yeah. Okay, number two. Yes. After
the Shaggy Dog established Fred McMurray as a
friendly father figure, he was cast against type
as a philandering corporate executive in this
film, which won the Oscar for Best Picture of
1960. Was it A? Elmer Gantry, B, The Apartment,
or C, The Hustler? Oh, gosh. Oh, man. Oh, this
is a tough one. Okay, you stumped me on this
one. I want to say The Apartment, but that feels
like an Alfred Hitchcock movie, and I can't remember
if it is or not. That's the only one that's really
ringing in my head. Oh, gosh. Okay, I'm just
going to say it. I'm going to go with my gut.
Is it The Apartment? Yeah, you got it. Oh, okay.
For some reason, it was just sitting in my head.
I was like, it sounds right. Okay. Honestly,
one of my top five favorite movies of all time.
Really? Shirley MacLaine and Jack Lemmon. And
Fred McMurray plays MacLaine's philandering boss.
And she has a relationship with him and he does
her dirty. And it's hilarious and heartbreaking.
Go see this movie. It's beautiful. Maybe that's
why it was in my head, because I feel like you
have talked about it before, but I clearly...
I had had it on the notes previously, but I deleted
it quickly for the sake of the quiz. Fair enough.
Let me read a quick anecdote that I love. Yeah.
That I came across. So, after The Apartment came
out, Fred McMurray went to Disneyland with his
daughters, and a woman approached him and said,
Oh, Mr. McMurray, I've enjoyed your movies throughout
the years. I saw The Apartment. Last night. How
could you? You spoiled the Disney image. And
she whacked him over the head with her purse
and stormed away. Well done. Well done, ma 'am.
I love it. I love it. Hey, why not? Why not?
That's beautiful. Love that. That's a great.
I love that. Oh, too funny. Okay. All right.
Last question. This is my favorite one that I've
written out, and I hope you get it right. Okay,
let's see. Good luck to you. We've gotten both
of them right so far, so here we go. After the
success of The Shaggy Dog, Disney started putting
animals front and center in many live -action
movies. Which of these titles is not a Disney
movie featuring an animal? Are you ready? Oh,
yeah. Okay, let's go. Feeling good about this
one. Good. Okay. Is it Not My Zebra? Is it Monkeys
Go Home? Or is it The Million Dollar Duck? Which
of these is not a Disney movie? Which is not
a Disney movie. The other two are Disney movies.
Okay. I got a little cocky here because I don't
believe. I don't believe any of those are Disney
movies. Two of them, in fact, are. I expect you
to say, you know, that darn cat or. Oh, no, no.
Big Red. I don't know. That's a movie I've heard
about. No, no, no. OK. All right. One more time.
We got a zebra. We got a monkey and we got a
duck. So, yep. Not my zebra. Monkeys go home.
Or the Million Dollar Duck. Not My Zebra. Not
My Zebra is not a Disney movie. Oh, my God. But
it should be, shouldn't it? It should be. Nor
is it a movie that I can think of. I made it
up. But I felt like it was a better title than
the other titles. Wow. Million Dollar Duck. Million
Dollar Duck and Monkeys Go Home. They will all
be featured on magic and monsters. Yeah. I want
to be clear. Disney didn't make all good comedies.
They just made a lot of companies. Wow. That's
a tactic. You just throw a bunch of crap at the
wall. That's correct. That's correct. And then
you'll never, they'll stay in the vault forever.
Right? Oh, man. All right. We're neck and neck
here, man. I got one more for you. It's kind
of a softball pitch. So I think you got it. But
well, we'll see. We'll see. OK, I want you to
test your first year Latin. Oh, Lord. That's
like will be. Yeah, that's right. It's all kids
learn Latin in their first year. OK, again, I
got it. I just got to go off like I've never
taken Latin. Never. Not a day. I knew what this
phrase was like I could. piece it together with
my rudimentary Spanish. Okay. Sure. All right.
Yeah. But maybe you can't. Let's see. Please
translate in canis corpore transmuto. Oh, that's
that. I'm going to give you three options. That's
the curse from the Borgias. Yes. Does in canis
corpore transmuto translate to a into a dog's
body? I change B. I am transformed by the dog's
body. Oh, Or C, I have transferred the body to
the canal. I do know what it's like to transfer
a body to a canal, so I don't think it's that
one. Because I feel like if it is that one, I'm
really going to be mad at myself. Okay. What
was the first one again? I feel like it was the
first one, but I want to hear it again. Into
a dog's body I change, or I am transformed by
the dog's body. I feel like transformed was not
a word that would have been used in Latin, so
I think it's the first one. We are all tied up,
except I'm 0 .5 points more than you. But hey,
ace is for all of us. That's great. Our new score
is 6 to 6 .5. Well done, everybody. Good job.
That was good. That was fun. I like that. Well
done, everybody. Good job, Quiz Show. Oh, yeah.
Lots of suspense there because I was shooting
in the dark with a couple of those. All right.
All right. Let's get back into the episode, Vincent.
What do you say? I say I transferred the body
to the canal. I transferred the body back to
our regularly scheduled programming here with
the Shaggy Dog. So I wanted to talk a little
bit before we sort of close things out here with
some just sort of cultural. significance, I guess,
of this movie when it comes to Disney, and then
also when it comes to horror movies as well.
And or are there significances when it comes
to either of those topics? For sure, I know that
for Disney, yes, there are quite a few things.
As I mentioned before, this is their first foray
into comedies. They were just trying to compete
with all these other comedies that were starting
to come out in other studios. And they, you know...
wanted to be on trend and so this is this is
the movie they came out with uh and it was very
on trend with disney as well they didn't sort
of steer away from classic disney imagination
and it just it opened the door as we said for
so many more of these disney comedies it was
a hit immediately uh after this came the love
bug the parent trap the absent -minded professor
it also spawned a few spinoffs the shaggy da
which if you haven't seen that is definitely
worth a watch it is next on my list good sir
i cannot wait it's so exciting it's absurd it's
absolutely absurd i hear the dog punches a man
in the face it's it's gold it's really gold it
jumps the shark immediately It's amazing. It's
great. It's great. And then also the return of
the Shaggy Dog. And then, as we said, there was
a remake with Tim Allen in 2006, which is nowhere
to be seen. But what are you going to do? As
you said earlier, this was Fred McMurray's very
first Disney film, and it just kicked. kicked
him into a whole new zeitgeist of stardom, basically.
He played the Appetite Minded Professor, which
as many people today now know, they remade that
into the movie Flubber with Robin Williams. That
was the very first version of that movie. I had
forgotten that completely. And in my mind, I
keep mixing it up with the Nutty Professor. which
was not Disney. I don't know. That might have
also been a Disney movie, The Nutty Professor,
I think, but maybe under a different title. I
can't remember what it was, but remade by Eddie
Murphy. Right, right. No, Jerry Lewis was in
the 60s one. Yeah, I think it might have been
Disney. I guess I can't remember. Wow, yeah.
What a tangled web. Yeah, for sure. We also mentioned
Annette Finicello, who was a huge Mickey Mouse
breakout star at the time. But this was the first
time they ever put her on film. This was sort
of her screen test for being in movies. And she
knocked it out of the park, even though she had
a very small part. People fell in love with her
all over again in this movie. And so it just
jump -started her career as well. And she was
in hundreds of movies, I feel like, after this.
Now, interestingly, this is sort of significant.
for Disney and for Gays Do The D listeners, well,
all listeners, but specifically for Gays Do The
D. So, Tommy Kirk, who played Wilby, the main
character in the movie, in the mid -1960s, it
was discovered that he was in a gay relationship.
He wasn't out at the time, but he was outed,
unfortunately. And Disney, this is, you know,
dark days for Disney, did not renew his contract
after figuring this out, as all studios just
sort of stayed away from him. And all people
who were sort of outed or out at the time, just,
it was not okay back then. It wasn't, I don't
believe it was illegal at the time, but it was,
you know, very frowned upon to be out and gay.
His last film with Disney was called Monkey's
Uncle in 1965, strangely, not strangely, I guess,
but with Annette Funicello, because she was in
everything back then. He did continue to act,
but not in big budget movies. He was in a string
of very low budget, but basically like college
level films. He eventually retired from acting
in the 1970s, and he owned his own business,
living out as well. Once he was outed, he didn't
hide it or go back in the closet. He actually
lived his life fully and out. And interestingly,
in 2006, he was named a Disney legend by Disney,
and he attended the ceremony in person. He was
deeply moved by the honor, and it sounds like...
It was sort of Disney's way of apologizing to
him, and he accepted it and moved on with his
life. Never again in a Disney movie, he stopped
acting altogether, but he continued to live his
life fully and out as now a Disney legend. So
not a great ending with his acting career, but
it's sort of important to know that it happened.
And a lot of people sort of, from what I read,
sort of attributed... tommy kirk to the horrors
that were happening back then uh to people who
who were othered by hollywood and they were shunned
and blacklisted that he didn't shy away from
it he just sort of said okay this is what it
is i'm not gonna let it get me down uh and and
unfortunately it did end his film career though
so a little significance there for you yeah no
thank you for sharing um i did not know that
when i watched the movie does does knowing that
about tommy kirk When you watch The Shaggy Dog,
does it inform your viewing in any way? That's
an interesting question. It's hard to sort of
separate them now once I learned that. And maybe
that's why I started to watch it with a different
lens of like, wow, imagine what he was going
through in his head at this time. Hard to know
if he was, you know, in a relationship with,
you know, another kid his age at the time. Who
can say? Because I believe he was like 16, 17
at the time of The Shaggy Dog. But it did make
me wonder if he made the connection of what we
were talking about earlier, of coming out as
a dog, of being this other side of you that you
have to hide from people, you know what I mean?
And share it with very select people. So it made
me feel very passionately for him. And it made
me, like I said, wonder what... what must he
have been going through at this time it must
have been really hard for him you know and so
that's what i pulled out of it when watching
it this time so yeah it's interesting because
on the surface it's it's more about a kid trying
to be a teenager just any teenager right but
now knowing what we know about him it's almost
definitely about a kid coming out right right
i think that's that's very well said yeah That's
that's the distinction with this movie on the
surface. No, Disney's not making a movie about,
you know, queer identity. But yet you can't not
acknowledge that aspect of it, too. Yeah. They're
tangled now forever. Yeah. It makes me think
about the 1950s in general. It's just this is
like the monster movie angle science fiction.
And there's just such an explosion of these types
of movies dealing with teen angst because teens.
were a burgeoning subsect of of society obviously
they're all the teenagers but like teen culture
as we know it started in the 50s rebel without
a cause all you know rock and roll like this
was it and the movies reflected that anxiety
about teens rebelling Against this very conservative
time. Cause we also think of the fifties as a
very like, leave it to beaver clean cut, um,
very conservative time. Yeah. And it was for
older people. It was for white people. And then
all people who came back from world war two,
just like trying to repress their trauma of the
war. Fascinating psychology. When you get into
like, why was everything presented so perfectly?
And yet underneath, Everyone is dealing with
a whole mess load of trauma from war, from constrained
expectations. And that's what the kids were rebelling
against. And I think you see this in the Shaggy
Dog, which I'll call a werewolf movie, which
was a, it wasn't a mainstream popular genre at
the time. Gothic horror, like werewolves had
kind of died out in the 40s as a pictures. So,
by the 50s, they were purely B movies, drive
-in audiences only. And you had some memorable
movies. There's a movie called The Werewolf,
which I would check out. I was a teenage werewolf
monster on the campus. These are really campy,
charming movies. They're all on Tubi. Go check
them out. But I see The Shaggy Dog as just one
more werewolf movie catering to the teen crowd.
With the added complexity of the Fred McMurray
character, who is that older... probably a world
war ii vet who's dealing with this this threat
to his perfect world so that's yeah yeah i can
read way more into the shaggy dog than most people
and i yeah i love it when a movie makes me think
about those things i love that that's so great
to hear and yeah i love your point about the
1950s and the 60s uh about this wholesome attitude
that they wanted everyone to see on screen for
sure like you think of donna reed i love lucy
all that mean like right but underneath there
were horrific things happening in this country
you know and all around the world absolutely
and and imagine being a teenager at that time
i mean there's there's every reason why these
werewolf movies would have been made at this
very specific time in history because people
were just like looking for a way to identify
and yeah if you can't identify as yourself let
me be a monster then you know yeah yeah man oh
we the psychology behind that is vast i imagine
but you know uh I host a podcast all about it.
Yes, you do. And Patrick, you are a great guest
host for those of you listening. Patrick's been
a frequent guest host on Camp Kaiju for Magic
Monsters and beyond. You've been on some Godzilla
episodes and we talked about 20 ,000 Leagues,
but that was another crossover episode. Yeah,
so I love talking about this stuff with you.
Same. Yeah, you add so much great insight. I
appreciate that. Likewise for you. I'm glad that
we started doing these Magic and Monsters episodes
because we realized that we like being on each
other's podcast talking about things. We're like,
wait a minute, there's a crossover that we can
just do together. So we don't have to guest star.
We can just have our own sort of sideshow. It's
been such an interesting, it sounds like we're
like wrapping up the entire series, but no, we're
not. It's been an interesting like foray into
that, you know, a genre doesn't stand alone all
the time. It definitely crosses over into other
territories because there's no, Nothing's necessarily
original anymore, right? We sort of take and
dip into other categories to make a more complete
story. And I think that's what's interesting
about these specific Disney monster movies that
they have the yin and the yang of something that's
really beautiful and magical and something that
can be seen as grotesque, but throwing them at
each other makes for a really fun movie watching.
And I'm glad that we're dissecting these films
together. Heck yeah. On that note, I have to
mention, I listened to your recent episode with
Kale. Is that his name? Your Fab Five rated R
moments. Oh, yeah. The most recent episode. Yeah.
I loved it because I was in my car listening,
saying, yes, The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Yes,
to the Beauty and the Beast things. Yes, to everything
you guys talked about. So that was a lot of fun.
That's awesome. Hey, thanks. Yeah, it's just
fun to, like, Disney doesn't, isn't always the
sugar -coated, you know, entity that people seem
to think it is. It's not just, you know, for
little kids, for sure. Because even the Shaggy
Dog, I mean, it gets dark in the Shaggy Dog.
Yeah. There's some moments where you're like,
what? Child murder is a second from happening.
Yeah, it's wild. It's wild. Oh, good times. Well,
what do you say we wrap things up, Vincent? That
was a fun episode to do. I'm glad that we finally
got around to doing this. It's such a great,
a classic movie. And I'm proud to have presented
it to you and to have convinced you that it is,
in fact, a werewolf movie. It is a werewolf movie.
I'm so glad I saw the Shaggy Dog. I love Disney.
I'm not like a Disney nut, but, you know, you
can't get away from it. And as a lover of cinema,
it's just. Yeah. Disney is such a unique special
studio in the history and everything they've
done for film. Yeah. Yeah. It's good stuff. So
thank you. Do you want to know what we're going
to do next? Oh, do you have something? I was
just going to ask. I was like, the ball's in
your court, Vincent, for next time. But do you
have one already? Should we tell everyone what
we're going to do next? We should because I need
to shout out our friend of the podcast who helped
us out on this huge, huge lift. Oh, that's right.
I know exactly what you're going to talk about.
Okay, great. I'm so excited about this. I totally
forgot about it. Yeah. So, Jeff, I know you're
listening. Thank you. for letting us borrow your
Blu -ray copy of The Watcher in the Woods. I'm
so excited. I'm so excited to do this movie.
This is the movie that stars Betty Davis. It's
from 1979. It's about a bunch of kids and a ghost,
as far as I know. Because guess what? Nobody's
seen this movie. Jeff has. But you talk about
Disney burying things. Oh, yeah. They've discontinued
production of physical copies. This movie is
not on streaming anywhere, let alone Disney Plus.
That's correct. But its reputation is literally
the scariest Disney movie of all time. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited to dive into why Disney
disappeared this movie as well, because like
fully disappeared it. Like why? Why? It just,
it baffles me. Yeah. We're going to get into
it. We're going to figure it out. So, okay, good.
I'm so excited about this. Thank you so much,
Jeff. I cannot wait to watch this. And it means
that you and I have to watch it together because
I, alas, do not have a Blu -ray player. And so
I'll be coming over to your house. Wow. I don't
know how I feel about that. I feel like, am I?
Just an artifact for having a Blu -ray player
these days. No, no. They're very useful for this
one specific instance. Hard media people, physical
copies. This way, the corporate conglomerates
cannot take away your movies. You own them. That's
my soapbox. Amazing. Amazing. Well, thank you.
Yes. Thank you, Jeff. And thank you to all of
our Patreon listeners on Gaze to the D and all
of the Patreon listeners from Camp Kaiju. We
love you. Thank you for supporting us. You make
things like this happen. So hopefully that's
a good thing. I don't know. Thank you. Please
leave us a positive rating and review. Yes. It
just helps grow our audience. And we're very
proud of our show. So we'd love to share it with
you all. Thank you for that support. You could
check out our website, campkaijupodcast .com.
That info and all sorts of links will be in our
show notes. So check them out for more information.
And hit us up on Instagram. I'm always down to
talk about monster movies with... basically anybody
who reaches out. So yeah. And where are you on
Instagram, Vincent? Camp underscore Kaiju underscore
podcast. Amazing. And for those listening on
the Camp Kaiju side, if you want to find out
more about Gaze of the D, you can go to gazeofthed
.com. You can shoot us a note at info at Gaze
to the D or hit us up on our Instagram, gdtdpodcast.
All right. Well, with that, I hope that you don't
run into any spies and you don't turn into a
dog this evening, Vincent. Right. I hope that
you don't come across an old professor in a haunted
house. And I hope you don't put on the ring he
gives you. I always put on a ring. If there's
a ring in front of me. Into the body that goes
the canal. into the canal goes the body there
it is i dragged a body from a canal