WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.720
So meanwhile, and this was kind of what I was

00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:05.099
alluding to earlier, Richard Stanley was still

00:00:05.099 --> 00:00:08.779
recuperating. And so he actually got back onto

00:00:08.779 --> 00:00:14.300
the set as an extra with a dog man costume. There

00:00:14.300 --> 00:00:16.460
was a story in the documentary about how they

00:00:16.460 --> 00:00:18.719
would take their breaks for lunch or whatever,

00:00:18.859 --> 00:00:21.519
or probably to wait for Marlon Brando to decide

00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:25.039
to come out of his trailer. And it would be like

00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:27.199
sweltering heat. So everybody else would be taking

00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:31.739
off their helmets. And that first AD who Vincent

00:00:31.739 --> 00:00:33.259
had mentioned, I think, is the one who said,

00:00:33.340 --> 00:00:36.619
like, he noticed this guy with the dog costume

00:00:36.619 --> 00:00:38.719
on who just, like, wasn't taking the helmet off.

00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:42.100
Even though they're in this, you know, 110 degree

00:00:42.100 --> 00:00:45.579
heat or whatever. Because obviously he didn't

00:00:45.579 --> 00:00:47.539
want to reveal his identity and that he was,

00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:50.000
you know, infiltrating this. That's hilarious.

00:00:50.219 --> 00:00:54.979
Like, who's the psycho who keeps his dog mascot?

00:00:55.399 --> 00:01:14.640
Yeah. Hello, and welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster

00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:17.439
Movie Podcast. We're your hosts, Matt Levine.

00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:20.519
And Vincent Hannum. And we're talking about all

00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:22.540
of our favorite monster movies, the good, the

00:01:22.540 --> 00:01:24.980
bad, and the downright campy, and asking if they

00:01:24.980 --> 00:01:28.140
stand the test of time. Traditional Kaiju creature

00:01:28.140 --> 00:01:31.219
features, space invaders, the supernatural, and

00:01:31.219 --> 00:01:34.260
everything in between. All strange beasts welcome

00:01:34.260 --> 00:01:37.640
here. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zack Linder

00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:39.980
and the Zack Pack, powered by Coldwell Banker

00:01:39.980 --> 00:01:42.890
Realty. your source for real estate, home rehab,

00:01:43.189 --> 00:01:45.469
fixing and flipping for investor clients and

00:01:45.469 --> 00:01:48.030
residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach Pack

00:01:48.030 --> 00:01:50.569
today for real estate services, follow the Zach

00:01:50.569 --> 00:01:53.409
Pack on social media, and contact the Zach Pack

00:01:53.409 --> 00:01:56.129
for investment opportunities. Link in the show

00:01:56.129 --> 00:02:16.530
notes. On the sixth day, God created man. On

00:02:16.530 --> 00:02:20.409
the seventh day, he rested. And on the eighth

00:02:20.409 --> 00:02:26.610
day, in the year 2010, in a remote laboratory,

00:02:27.229 --> 00:02:31.830
an exiled scientist created something impossible.

00:02:35.289 --> 00:02:43.150
Unmistakably human. Undeniably animal. On the

00:02:43.150 --> 00:02:47.990
island of Dr. Moreau. I'd like to present my

00:02:47.990 --> 00:02:55.449
children. Father? Oh, my God. From director John

00:02:55.449 --> 00:03:01.129
Frankenheimer. H .G. Wells' most terrifying creations.

00:03:02.810 --> 00:03:07.250
About the line that separates man from beast.

00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:12.139
And the notorious doctor who dared to cross it.

00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:19.479
We are men. Because the father has made us men.

00:03:21.699 --> 00:03:31.539
Marlon Brando. Val Kilmer. David Thewlis. The

00:03:31.539 --> 00:03:41.719
Island of Dr. Moreau. Tonight, we have a very

00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:44.439
special guest joining us. All of you Frankaholics

00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:46.460
out there will be very excited. Frank Olson is

00:03:46.460 --> 00:03:50.620
back on the show. Woo! Yeah. Hello, Frank. Thank

00:03:50.620 --> 00:03:52.740
you for joining us. Welcome back. Yes, thank

00:03:52.740 --> 00:03:56.319
you for having me. Was the last episode that

00:03:56.319 --> 00:03:58.020
you joined, was that Attack the Block? I'm trying

00:03:58.020 --> 00:04:01.120
to remember. That was, yeah. Okay. Back in December,

00:04:01.259 --> 00:04:04.050
I believe that was. Yep. Well, the last regular

00:04:04.050 --> 00:04:05.889
episode, anyway, I was on the like the year end

00:04:05.889 --> 00:04:07.689
thing as well. But yeah, the last one where we

00:04:07.689 --> 00:04:10.509
went over a specific movie was the Attack the

00:04:10.509 --> 00:04:13.770
Block one. Cool. Always a pleasure to have you

00:04:13.770 --> 00:04:16.550
on the podcast. Tonight, we are going to be talking

00:04:16.550 --> 00:04:19.250
about a movie with a much more difficult production

00:04:19.250 --> 00:04:21.550
history than Attack the Block had. Tonight, we're

00:04:21.550 --> 00:04:24.370
talking about The Island of Dr. Moreau from 1996.

00:04:26.350 --> 00:04:29.550
It's going to be a doozy. I never, well, and

00:04:29.550 --> 00:04:31.149
I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves.

00:04:31.310 --> 00:04:32.850
I won't say that yet, but I'm very excited to

00:04:32.850 --> 00:04:36.689
talk about this movie. Yeah, me too. I had always

00:04:36.689 --> 00:04:39.750
heard about this movie. I did not realize how

00:04:39.750 --> 00:04:42.250
deep the rabbit hole went with the troubles.

00:04:42.709 --> 00:04:45.589
Like that's an understatement. I was watching

00:04:45.589 --> 00:04:47.769
this movie and I won't get ahead of myself, but

00:04:47.769 --> 00:04:49.589
like that's going to be our whole episode. Like

00:04:49.589 --> 00:04:52.149
just chomping at the bit to talk about all the

00:04:52.149 --> 00:04:54.810
trivia with this movie because it was a mess.

00:04:55.550 --> 00:05:00.750
There's so many factoids and bits of interesting

00:05:00.750 --> 00:05:05.290
info on this film and the people involved. Yeah,

00:05:05.310 --> 00:05:07.370
the other day I was reading the Wikipedia article

00:05:07.370 --> 00:05:10.689
on it before I rewatched the movie, and I texted

00:05:10.689 --> 00:05:12.670
Matt and I said, we could probably just read

00:05:12.670 --> 00:05:14.850
the Wikipedia page for a bit, and that would

00:05:14.850 --> 00:05:19.610
be a good enough episode. I mean, there's a lot

00:05:19.610 --> 00:05:21.550
of that Wikipedia page on the show notes for

00:05:21.550 --> 00:05:24.329
tonight. So in essence, that's kind of what we're

00:05:24.329 --> 00:05:26.230
doing. But also there's a bunch of stuff from

00:05:26.230 --> 00:05:29.310
that. A really good documentary from 2014, Lost

00:05:29.310 --> 00:05:31.810
Soul. I can't remember the full title. It's kind

00:05:31.810 --> 00:05:33.810
of a long title of that movie. I think all three

00:05:33.810 --> 00:05:36.509
of us saw it. Yeah, I've got to hold up here

00:05:36.509 --> 00:05:38.050
because I knew I was not going to remember the

00:05:38.050 --> 00:05:41.050
full title either. But it's Lost Soul, The Doomed

00:05:41.050 --> 00:05:44.129
Journey of Richard Stanley's Island of Dr. Moreau.

00:05:44.829 --> 00:05:47.550
So much fascinating information in that documentary.

00:05:47.709 --> 00:05:49.490
And we'll be talking about some of the stuff

00:05:49.490 --> 00:05:51.410
that I think all three of us learned from that

00:05:51.410 --> 00:05:53.850
documentary tonight as well. It's not too much

00:05:53.850 --> 00:05:55.990
of an exaggeration to say The Island of Dr. Moreau

00:05:55.990 --> 00:05:59.910
might be the most problematic or troubled production

00:05:59.910 --> 00:06:02.629
history of any Hollywood movie ever made. It

00:06:02.629 --> 00:06:05.430
sounds over the top, but it's close to being

00:06:05.430 --> 00:06:08.310
accurate, I would say. Because what I learned

00:06:08.310 --> 00:06:11.970
or like what I just realized was that bad movies

00:06:11.970 --> 00:06:16.180
win. I feel like after watching the documentary

00:06:16.180 --> 00:06:17.800
and you're listening to the producers at New

00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:21.240
Line Cinema back in the mid 90s, they were so

00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:24.500
deep into production. They realized they were

00:06:24.500 --> 00:06:27.620
going to lose so much money if they did not go

00:06:27.620 --> 00:06:29.240
through with this. And they knew it was going

00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:31.879
to be a train wreck. But I feel like that is

00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:34.800
the exception, right? I mean, most movies that

00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:37.339
come out are decent. They might be boring, but

00:06:37.339 --> 00:06:41.300
they're not bad the way they're not in shambles

00:06:41.300 --> 00:06:44.329
the way I think. Dr. Moreau is in certain points.

00:06:44.829 --> 00:06:47.370
So it's really interesting that this did manage

00:06:47.370 --> 00:06:50.829
to get made despite everyone knowing it was a

00:06:50.829 --> 00:06:55.339
disaster. Yeah. And I think like, you know, it

00:06:55.339 --> 00:06:58.040
at least is like interestingly bad. I mean, like

00:06:58.040 --> 00:06:59.360
there are some movies out there that are just

00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:01.259
kind of like boring and bland and forgettable.

00:07:01.259 --> 00:07:03.360
And like maybe like two days after you see it,

00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:05.779
you forget almost all of it. This is a movie

00:07:05.779 --> 00:07:07.899
that I will never forget. It's so bizarre. It's

00:07:07.899 --> 00:07:10.360
like really off the rails. And I would kind of

00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:13.060
rather have a movie be interestingly bad than

00:07:13.060 --> 00:07:14.819
just bland and forgettable, you know? So I guess

00:07:14.819 --> 00:07:16.439
that's one thing the Island of Dr. Moreau has

00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:20.019
going for it. Yeah. I also liked that you called

00:07:20.019 --> 00:07:21.959
it The Troubles before. I feel like from now

00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:23.939
on, that should not refer to Northern Ireland

00:07:23.939 --> 00:07:26.500
and its history of terrorism. It should refer

00:07:26.500 --> 00:07:28.439
to this movie instead. That's how I'm going to

00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:31.680
use it from now on. I'm also sad that you were

00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:33.620
wearing the ice bucket hat at first, Vincent.

00:07:33.819 --> 00:07:36.120
And I know most people listening can't see us

00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:39.079
on screen right now, but you don't have the ice

00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:41.100
bucket hat on anymore. All right, I'll put it

00:07:41.100 --> 00:07:43.740
back. It's just a couple of sheets of construction

00:07:43.740 --> 00:07:47.550
paper I taped together. And a bunch of ice that

00:07:47.550 --> 00:07:49.589
will slowly leak over your head throughout the

00:07:49.589 --> 00:07:53.970
recording. Of course. Before we get to that,

00:07:54.050 --> 00:07:56.670
just a couple quick intro things to get out of

00:07:56.670 --> 00:07:58.930
the way. Frank and I actually together a couple

00:07:58.930 --> 00:08:01.230
days ago saw a new monster movie in theaters,

00:08:01.350 --> 00:08:04.790
Death of a Unicorn. Frank, what did you think

00:08:04.790 --> 00:08:07.850
about that movie? It was not very good. I think

00:08:07.850 --> 00:08:10.670
I actually nodded off a couple times in the theater

00:08:10.670 --> 00:08:13.220
while we were watching it. Did not really work

00:08:13.220 --> 00:08:17.019
for me as a horror movie or as a comedy. And

00:08:17.019 --> 00:08:20.300
for a movie with such an eccentric concept, it's

00:08:20.300 --> 00:08:25.939
shockingly bland and just kind of plain, I guess.

00:08:26.939 --> 00:08:30.199
There's nothing really interesting about it.

00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:32.820
I don't know. It just didn't do anything for

00:08:32.820 --> 00:08:36.679
me. Totally agree. I strongly disliked it. I

00:08:36.679 --> 00:08:38.480
feel like in addition to not working as a horror

00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:40.720
or a comedy, it also doesn't work as satire very

00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:44.320
well. And like the CGI is as bad as like the

00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.720
brief CGI that we get in the island of Dr. Moreau,

00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:49.799
even though we're like 30 years later. So, you

00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:52.360
know, Death of a Unicorn, not recommended by

00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:54.259
the Camp Kaiju crew. Vincent, have you seen it

00:08:54.259 --> 00:08:58.200
yet? No, I was curious. So I like that you guys

00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:02.759
saw it. And now I know to not watch it. Yeah,

00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:07.360
that'd be my recommendation. Real quick, have

00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:09.740
you guys seen any other good new or older monster

00:09:09.740 --> 00:09:13.039
movies recently? So many. I'm going to keep it

00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:16.960
brief. I've just been on a Lon Chaney kick. Lon

00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:19.860
Chaney Sr., if you all get a chance to watch

00:09:19.860 --> 00:09:24.799
his Phantom of the Opera, it is a good time.

00:09:26.779 --> 00:09:30.259
I'll keep it short and sweet, but that's my rec

00:09:30.259 --> 00:09:33.500
for the week. A classic. Can't go wrong with

00:09:33.500 --> 00:09:37.419
Lon Chaney. Yeah. I'm trying to think if I've

00:09:37.419 --> 00:09:40.809
seen a particularly good... monster movie recently

00:09:40.809 --> 00:09:45.230
i did see so last year i saw i never exactly

00:09:45.230 --> 00:09:47.110
sure how to pronounce this i think it's diamond

00:09:47.110 --> 00:09:51.889
diamond gene it's it's like a weird like combination

00:09:51.889 --> 00:09:55.629
of samurai movie and kaiju movie and they made

00:09:55.629 --> 00:09:57.730
three of them that they filmed simultaneously

00:09:57.730 --> 00:10:00.289
last year i watched the first one and then earlier

00:10:00.289 --> 00:10:02.590
this year i watched the second and third ones

00:10:02.590 --> 00:10:06.669
and those are pretty interesting they're a little

00:10:06.669 --> 00:10:09.580
bit too slow paced in my opinion and for anyone

00:10:09.580 --> 00:10:11.539
you know listening to this who just wants to

00:10:11.539 --> 00:10:13.980
see like the kaiju destruction stuff and in all

00:10:13.980 --> 00:10:16.120
three movies that's basically saved for like

00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:20.840
the very end like there's a giant uh statue of

00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:23.580
a samurai that eventually comes to life like

00:10:23.580 --> 00:10:27.360
people pray to it and like people who are like

00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:30.460
oppressed pray to it and and then ultimately

00:10:30.460 --> 00:10:33.019
like agree to sacrifice their lives to the statue

00:10:33.019 --> 00:10:35.159
and then he like comes to life and gets all this

00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:38.750
you know righteous vengeance on the like evil

00:10:38.750 --> 00:10:42.309
samurai who are the evil samurai clans who are

00:10:42.309 --> 00:10:45.149
like you know abusing the people and everything

00:10:45.149 --> 00:10:48.490
but those are all pretty interesting i i like

00:10:48.490 --> 00:10:50.490
the third one the best and the third one the

00:10:50.490 --> 00:10:53.850
protagonists are like these these children who

00:10:53.850 --> 00:10:56.370
are trying to like you know climb up the mountain

00:10:56.370 --> 00:11:00.250
to to visit the statue and like pray for him

00:11:00.250 --> 00:11:02.610
to save their parents and so that kind of gives

00:11:02.610 --> 00:11:05.590
them a little more of like uh like a boys adventure

00:11:05.590 --> 00:11:08.529
vibe, which sets apart a little bit from the

00:11:08.529 --> 00:11:10.309
other movies. So that was my favorite of the

00:11:10.309 --> 00:11:13.389
three. The third, it's called Dimension, right?

00:11:13.409 --> 00:11:15.850
D -A -I -M -A -J -I -N, something like that?

00:11:16.009 --> 00:11:18.190
Yes, that's how it's spelled. I'm not exactly

00:11:18.190 --> 00:11:20.870
sure how it's pronounced, but I, yeah, something

00:11:20.870 --> 00:11:23.549
like that. Okay. I've always been curious about

00:11:23.549 --> 00:11:25.330
those. It's a good reminder that I should watch

00:11:25.330 --> 00:11:27.389
them at some point. Yeah, those might, I haven't

00:11:27.389 --> 00:11:29.769
seen them either, but I have been thinking about

00:11:29.769 --> 00:11:32.879
bringing. One or all of those to a future installment

00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:36.500
of Camp Kaiju. So listeners, stay tuned. Definitely

00:11:36.500 --> 00:11:39.320
worth checking out. Perhaps for next season.

00:11:39.379 --> 00:11:42.700
We shall see. One thing I feel like we should

00:11:42.700 --> 00:11:44.960
say before we get into tonight's episode about

00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:48.080
the island of Dr. Moreau. One of the main characters

00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.799
is played by Val Kilmer. So we have to say rest

00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:53.059
in peace to Val Kilmer. Just died about a week

00:11:53.059 --> 00:11:55.840
ago. I've been starting to like dive back into

00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:57.840
some of his movies. This might sound a little

00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.399
bit weird, but I'm very excited to rewatch MacGruber,

00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.480
the SNL like parody, which is hilarious. I love

00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:05.740
that movie. And Val Kilmer plays the villain

00:12:05.740 --> 00:12:07.440
in that movie. So I'm excited to rewatch that.

00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:12.659
That's right. I also want to say that Val Kilmer's

00:12:12.659 --> 00:12:15.879
reputation in The Island of Dr. Moreau is pretty

00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:19.440
bad. Like everyone he worked with on that film

00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:23.940
has nothing good to say about him. So with that

00:12:23.940 --> 00:12:27.549
said. Like still rest in peace, Val Kilmer. You're

00:12:27.549 --> 00:12:30.370
a great Batman. You're a great actor. Even if

00:12:30.370 --> 00:12:34.830
you weren't in this movie. Yeah, I was thinking

00:12:34.830 --> 00:12:36.549
the same thing. We'll probably say some negative

00:12:36.549 --> 00:12:39.129
things about him tonight, like through what other

00:12:39.129 --> 00:12:41.809
people have said about him. But still an amazing

00:12:41.809 --> 00:12:44.250
actor with a long, great career. And hopefully

00:12:44.250 --> 00:12:47.389
how much of a difficult actor he was on this

00:12:47.389 --> 00:12:50.409
movie doesn't overshadow his long career. Yeah,

00:12:50.409 --> 00:12:52.649
and definitely his performance in Top Secret.

00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:56.919
is one of the like all -time great like deadpan

00:12:56.919 --> 00:12:59.320
comedy performances he's really funny in that

00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:02.360
movie i heard that i am i haven't seen that movie

00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:06.159
frank but it that makes me think about a quote

00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:08.740
i i forget who said it but in the wake of his

00:13:08.740 --> 00:13:10.799
passing someone said that he was a character

00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:14.399
actor trapped in a leading man's body and i find

00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:17.820
that really interesting as a as an actor myself

00:13:17.820 --> 00:13:20.840
like you get put in these boxes, but maybe that's

00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:23.379
not your true calling. Maybe he thrived in the

00:13:23.379 --> 00:13:26.639
character space, but he was too good looking.

00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:32.500
Yeah. Yeah. I, and you know, maybe that's some

00:13:32.500 --> 00:13:34.779
of the like discontent that he experienced while

00:13:34.779 --> 00:13:36.820
making the Island of Dr. Moreau. Who knows? Maybe

00:13:36.820 --> 00:13:39.240
that was partially a result of that, but top

00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:41.759
secret is great. I can, I agree with Frank. That

00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:43.940
is a hilarious movie and Val Kilmer is awesome

00:13:43.940 --> 00:13:46.610
in it. So if you haven't seen it, Top Secret,

00:13:46.710 --> 00:13:49.309
and also MacGruber. Two recommendations. Okay.

00:13:50.029 --> 00:13:52.870
So before we dive into tonight's episode, just

00:13:52.870 --> 00:13:54.889
a quick intro. Thank you all again for hanging

00:13:54.889 --> 00:13:57.549
out with us. Please rate and review Camp Kaiju

00:13:57.549 --> 00:13:59.929
wherever you listen. You can also send us listener

00:13:59.929 --> 00:14:03.350
comments at campkaiju at gmail .com, at our Instagram

00:14:03.350 --> 00:14:07.009
page, at camp underscore kaiju, or if you'd like

00:14:07.009 --> 00:14:08.710
to be a featured voice on the show, leave us

00:14:08.710 --> 00:14:13.879
a voicemail at 612 -470 -2612. telling us about

00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:16.360
your favorite monster movies and memories. Please

00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:19.080
also check out our website, campkaijupodcast

00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.200
.com, for more reviews and special content. We

00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:24.399
also have merchandise available. I think some

00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:27.639
new shirts, maybe not so new anymore, but some

00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:30.159
shirts and other exciting things available at

00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:33.600
campkaiju .threadless .com. Really cool designs

00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:35.200
on there, so check that out if you haven't seen

00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:38.200
it yet. You can also become a patron at patreon

00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:41.580
.com slash campkaiju for discounts, priority

00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:44.659
comments, and access to any live events. Thank

00:14:44.659 --> 00:14:47.679
you to our current patrons, Jason, Chris, Sean,

00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:51.340
Peggy, and our anonymous patron. We really appreciate

00:14:51.340 --> 00:14:55.700
you so much. Yes, and if you are all local in

00:14:55.700 --> 00:14:59.179
the Twin Cities, join me and Matt Monday, May

00:14:59.179 --> 00:15:02.409
5th. At Indeed Brewing, we are going to be co

00:15:02.409 --> 00:15:05.309
-hosting as special guests with Naomi Osborne,

00:15:05.450 --> 00:15:08.990
friend of the pod, who hosts a movie trivia on

00:15:08.990 --> 00:15:11.649
the first Monday of every month. So it's going

00:15:11.649 --> 00:15:15.509
to be a Camp Kaiju themed monster movie bash

00:15:15.509 --> 00:15:20.330
type of trivia. We're very excited. And if you

00:15:20.330 --> 00:15:25.029
are not a patron, then you have time to join.

00:15:25.710 --> 00:15:28.330
and you get a free drink on us alcoholic or not

00:15:28.330 --> 00:15:31.450
if you're not in the cities we're still going

00:15:31.450 --> 00:15:34.309
to send you something a freebie so just pay attention

00:15:34.309 --> 00:15:37.289
to your inboxes i'll be messaging our patreon

00:15:37.289 --> 00:15:40.710
our patrons between now and then yeah and see

00:15:40.710 --> 00:15:42.909
what what kind of free merch you want happy to

00:15:42.909 --> 00:15:46.370
you know pay back what you're giving us and just

00:15:46.370 --> 00:15:49.840
show our appreciation Indeed. I'm very excited

00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:51.679
for trivia. Maybe there will be some Island of

00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:53.940
Dr. Moreau questions. Who knows? Like we're experts

00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:55.559
at this point. That'd be a good idea though.

00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:57.860
Like tie it back to a couple of recent episodes.

00:15:58.139 --> 00:16:01.139
Yeah. See how closely people were listening,

00:16:01.259 --> 00:16:05.179
you know? I'm very excited for that. And then

00:16:05.179 --> 00:16:07.539
on our next episode of Camp Kaiju, we're talking

00:16:07.539 --> 00:16:10.000
about invaders from Mars, which Vincent, you're

00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:13.740
bringing to the podcast. Yeah. Early underrated

00:16:13.740 --> 00:16:16.620
yet seminal science fiction work from the early

00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:20.179
fifties. It's in Technicolor. It's about a little

00:16:20.179 --> 00:16:23.259
kid whose world is turned upside down. His parents

00:16:23.259 --> 00:16:27.759
are brainwashed by Martians. The town is, it's

00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.039
like maybe Invasion of the Body Snatchers type

00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:32.399
of situation, but it's told through the point

00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:34.919
of view of this little 10 -year -old boy. It's

00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:36.820
great. It's on Tubi. Everyone should check it

00:16:36.820 --> 00:16:40.940
out in time for our episode on that. Cool. I

00:16:40.940 --> 00:16:43.980
can't wait. Frank, have you seen that one? I

00:16:43.980 --> 00:16:46.500
haven't. It sounds interesting, though. I, you

00:16:46.500 --> 00:16:48.120
know, I've been meaning to like keep up with

00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:51.179
you guys and, you know, kind of watch the movies

00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:52.759
ahead of time of when the episodes come out.

00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:56.000
And I've failed horribly at that. I finally got

00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:58.600
around to watching Beast from 20 ,000 Fathoms

00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:02.039
earlier this week, actually. But nice. So I'm

00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:04.480
catching up very slowly to where you guys are

00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:08.240
at. Plenty of time to catch up. We'll have, I

00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:10.390
think, a little bit of an off. off time over

00:17:10.390 --> 00:17:13.750
the summer, so plenty of time to, yeah, watch

00:17:13.750 --> 00:17:15.529
all the movies from this season before the next

00:17:15.529 --> 00:17:18.609
one. Yeah. But, again, tonight we're talking

00:17:18.609 --> 00:17:20.789
about The Island of Dr. Moreau, so we can talk

00:17:20.789 --> 00:17:22.750
about our personal histories with that movie

00:17:22.750 --> 00:17:24.730
a little bit. Frank, before we started recording,

00:17:24.970 --> 00:17:26.769
you were mentioning that you remember seeing

00:17:26.769 --> 00:17:29.529
it in theaters when it came out in 1996, and

00:17:29.529 --> 00:17:31.349
you were one of the only people that actually

00:17:31.349 --> 00:17:33.670
liked it around that time, right? Yeah, so I

00:17:33.670 --> 00:17:35.650
would have been 12 years old. I remember I saw

00:17:35.650 --> 00:17:39.029
it with my dad. And yeah, I remember I really

00:17:39.029 --> 00:17:41.809
liked it. I think at that age, I just like anything

00:17:41.809 --> 00:17:46.869
that was weird, I liked for the most part. So

00:17:46.869 --> 00:17:49.930
that probably helped. But yeah, I remember just

00:17:49.930 --> 00:17:53.190
thinking it was really exciting. And I remember

00:17:53.190 --> 00:17:55.869
thinking at the end, there's a part at the very

00:17:55.869 --> 00:17:58.670
end of the movie where it's kind of like a montage

00:17:58.670 --> 00:18:02.730
of documentary footage. things happening and

00:18:02.730 --> 00:18:07.329
i was like whoa this is so deep like i i will

00:18:07.329 --> 00:18:10.470
say i was more impressed with it at uh age 12

00:18:10.470 --> 00:18:17.069
than at age 41 but but yeah i i liked it at the

00:18:17.069 --> 00:18:19.890
time but i also liked you know like the street

00:18:19.890 --> 00:18:23.309
fighter movie and stuff like that from roughly

00:18:23.309 --> 00:18:27.380
around the same time so can't Can't trust my

00:18:27.380 --> 00:18:29.259
taste from when I was a little kid, I guess.

00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:32.200
Oh man, we all have movies like that from our

00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:36.640
youth. Yeah, I remember liking Speed 2 Cruise

00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.640
Control when I first saw it, when it came out.

00:18:38.779 --> 00:18:40.740
And it's, you know, watching it again kind of

00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:42.880
recently, it's not terrible, but that's definitely

00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:44.559
not a good movie. That's the first one that comes

00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:46.759
to mind where like, when I first saw it, I probably

00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:49.700
like 13 years old, whenever that came out, 14

00:18:49.700 --> 00:18:51.660
maybe. I was like, oh, this is the best action

00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:54.119
movie ever, which is not true. So I think all

00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:56.059
of us can relate to that kind of thing. Well,

00:18:56.099 --> 00:18:58.980
for me, it's the Ben Affleck Daredevil from 2002.

00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.019
I loved it so much, I dropped $20 at the local

00:19:04.019 --> 00:19:10.599
CVS to buy that full -screen edition DVD. Wow,

00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.539
totally immersive flashbacks of the early 2000s

00:19:13.539 --> 00:19:15.539
right now. That sentence just brings it all back.

00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:21.440
Yeah, man. Cool. Vincent, had you ever seen The

00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:24.650
Island of Dr. Moreau before? No, but I love this

00:19:24.650 --> 00:19:27.630
story. In sixth grade, speaking about our youth,

00:19:27.849 --> 00:19:31.250
I fell in love with H .G. Wells' writing and

00:19:31.250 --> 00:19:35.289
his science fiction, and I consumed all the stories

00:19:35.289 --> 00:19:38.430
I could of his. And The Island of Dr. Moreau

00:19:38.430 --> 00:19:42.490
always stood out to me, even then. I reread it

00:19:42.490 --> 00:19:45.509
recently in prep for this episode, and it's a

00:19:45.509 --> 00:19:49.190
quick read. It's really dark and twisted, more

00:19:49.190 --> 00:19:51.470
so than like War of the Worlds or The Invisible

00:19:51.470 --> 00:19:56.089
Man. other wells titles. So it's definitely in

00:19:56.089 --> 00:19:59.650
line with this, this movie's aesthetic in terms

00:19:59.650 --> 00:20:03.829
of like weird animal human hybrids. But also

00:20:03.829 --> 00:20:07.650
I love the early thirties adaptation Island of

00:20:07.650 --> 00:20:12.509
lost souls, pre -code horror film that, you know,

00:20:12.509 --> 00:20:16.990
is better than this 96 version. I think it's,

00:20:16.990 --> 00:20:22.200
it's more atmospheric. It's sexier. It's, it's

00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:26.640
weirder in just like an old timey way. So, so,

00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.960
so everyone go check that movie out. In addition

00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:35.220
to the 96 adaptation. Yeah. I actually just rewatched

00:20:35.220 --> 00:20:37.140
Island of Lost Souls in preparation for this

00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:41.240
too. And yeah, absolutely. 100 % agree with everything

00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:44.059
you said, especially the part right toward the

00:20:44.059 --> 00:20:48.079
end where the beasts started. There's like the

00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:50.559
closeup montage of all the different beasts as

00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:53.299
they're like, you know, about to tear Dr. Moreau

00:20:53.299 --> 00:20:57.119
apart. Great scene. Yeah. Charles Lawton in that

00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:00.839
is just, just steals the show. He's so powerful

00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.700
in that role. He's a great actor. I love him.

00:21:03.819 --> 00:21:07.319
Yeah. Yeah. Totally agree. And I feel like the

00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:10.660
element of bestiality that's strongly implied

00:21:10.660 --> 00:21:13.420
by the island of Dr. Moreau is even more pronounced

00:21:13.420 --> 00:21:16.359
in the, in the island of lost souls. It's like,

00:21:16.380 --> 00:21:19.250
you know, suggested anyway but like in the pre

00:21:19.250 --> 00:21:21.390
-code era i feel like that was kind of shocking

00:21:21.390 --> 00:21:23.309
and still kind of feels a little shocking today

00:21:23.309 --> 00:21:27.630
so totally agreed that movie's amazing more successful

00:21:27.630 --> 00:21:31.450
than this one for sure but there was also a 1977

00:21:31.450 --> 00:21:34.089
version of island of dr moreau which is not supposed

00:21:34.089 --> 00:21:37.009
to be very good but the cast has burt lancaster

00:21:37.009 --> 00:21:38.650
and michael york so i'm kind of intrigued by

00:21:38.650 --> 00:21:41.450
it i'm very intrigued by that yeah all right

00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:44.140
big lancaster fan totally yeah i was actually

00:21:44.140 --> 00:21:46.579
considering trying to like find that and watch

00:21:46.579 --> 00:21:48.400
it before this i just kind of didn't have time

00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:50.160
and i don't know if it's really easily available

00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:52.180
to find but it does seem like the reputation

00:21:52.180 --> 00:21:55.519
of it is just that it's you know kind of forgettable

00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:59.920
nothing special yeah yeah that's what i've heard

00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:02.400
as well And kind of like Vincent, I had never

00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.380
seen Island of Dr. Moreau from 1996 until recently

00:22:05.380 --> 00:22:08.000
for this episode. I'm just always very compelled

00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.119
by stories of like really difficult productions

00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:15.339
and like clash of egos on set and like how all

00:22:15.339 --> 00:22:17.700
those kind of obstacles and hurdles kind of like

00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:20.579
give shape to a final film. It's always really

00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:23.579
fascinating to dive into. So I'm excited to do

00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:29.970
that tonight. Andrew Braddock. Shipwrecked and

00:22:29.970 --> 00:22:33.049
cast away on a land beyond human experience.

00:22:33.769 --> 00:22:39.789
A world inhabited by sounds and shadows. The

00:22:39.789 --> 00:22:44.170
island of Dr. Moreau. Morning. We haven't met.

00:22:44.269 --> 00:22:47.210
Officially, that is. I'm Dr. Moreau. Andrew Braddock,

00:22:47.269 --> 00:22:50.930
sir. Has he come for your work? No. Just till

00:22:50.930 --> 00:22:56.910
the next ship arrives. The island was a garden

00:22:56.910 --> 00:23:04.509
of Eden. A tropical paradise. And a trap. Because

00:23:04.509 --> 00:23:10.029
here, a bizarre civilization was growing. What

00:23:10.029 --> 00:23:12.650
happened, Mr. Braddock? Those creatures! What

00:23:12.650 --> 00:23:15.049
are they? You go back to the compound, that way.

00:23:16.269 --> 00:23:22.150
What were they? What were they? This is human.

00:23:23.710 --> 00:23:30.759
This is man. Understandably, they fear this place.

00:23:31.339 --> 00:23:34.539
The pain they've suffered. And when they revert,

00:23:34.539 --> 00:23:37.240
they bring back into their brute lives the memory

00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:44.619
of that experience. Their human legacy. You want

00:23:44.619 --> 00:23:46.859
to explore that in the battlefield and bring

00:23:46.859 --> 00:23:51.359
back the knowledge. The ultimate knowledge. No!

00:23:51.920 --> 00:24:00.599
See? You see? It's happening already. No! This

00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.400
is the chillingly prophetic story of the genius

00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:06.599
who tore down the walls that separate man and

00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:14.859
beast. Bert Lancaster, Michael York, Nigel Davenport,

00:24:15.019 --> 00:24:18.779
Barbara Carrera, Richard Basehart, and the incredible

00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:22.819
humanimals that populate the island of Dr. Moreau.

00:24:32.140 --> 00:24:35.640
We can start by diving into the crew of the film,

00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:38.420
which will be a little bit convoluted because...

00:24:38.970 --> 00:24:40.769
There was a lot of turnover. We'll just say that

00:24:40.769 --> 00:24:45.289
right up front. The accredited director is John

00:24:45.289 --> 00:24:47.569
Frankenheimer, who I think is kind of an interesting

00:24:47.569 --> 00:24:50.430
director. He made some really good classic films

00:24:50.430 --> 00:24:53.730
from classical Hollywood as it was turning into

00:24:53.730 --> 00:24:56.650
the new Hollywood era. Manchurian Candidate,

00:24:56.690 --> 00:24:59.509
Seconds with Rock Hudson, The Train. All those

00:24:59.509 --> 00:25:01.529
are really good movies, I think. And then he

00:25:01.529 --> 00:25:04.630
kind of went through a period of... critical

00:25:04.630 --> 00:25:06.329
downfall, I guess you could say. And before he

00:25:06.329 --> 00:25:08.069
made Island of Dr. Moreau, he had made a lot

00:25:08.069 --> 00:25:10.869
of bombs in a row, kind of poorly received movies.

00:25:11.009 --> 00:25:12.829
He did make some TV movies that are supposed

00:25:12.829 --> 00:25:14.589
to be good that I haven't seen for the most part.

00:25:14.849 --> 00:25:17.549
But he's an interesting director who maybe was

00:25:17.549 --> 00:25:20.869
not at the height of his talent or at least his

00:25:20.869 --> 00:25:24.009
fame when he made the Island of Dr. Moreau. Yeah,

00:25:24.029 --> 00:25:27.630
and in fact, it sounds from the documentary about

00:25:27.630 --> 00:25:30.450
this movie like basically the reason he took

00:25:30.450 --> 00:25:33.049
it is because nobody would hire him for anything

00:25:33.049 --> 00:25:35.130
else like he wasn't really particularly interested

00:25:35.130 --> 00:25:38.549
in this but and and didn't like the script once

00:25:38.549 --> 00:25:41.230
he read it but you know he kind of had nowhere

00:25:41.230 --> 00:25:44.950
else to go i guess yeah yeah he did a job yeah

00:25:44.950 --> 00:25:46.849
totally i think it's kind of interesting that

00:25:46.849 --> 00:25:50.289
like you know this movie probably mostly like

00:25:50.289 --> 00:25:54.380
you know sent him even further down the A -list

00:25:54.380 --> 00:25:57.220
to the D -list or whatever it would be. But I

00:25:57.220 --> 00:25:59.420
think one of the movies he made after this, Ronin,

00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:01.460
the action movie with Robert De Niro, is actually

00:26:01.460 --> 00:26:03.359
really good. It has some amazing car chases.

00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:06.079
So Frankenhammer made at least one good movie

00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:09.579
after this one, in my opinion. All right. The

00:26:09.579 --> 00:26:12.180
initial director who was slated to make The Island

00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:14.420
of Dr. Moreau, however, was Richard Stanley,

00:26:14.619 --> 00:26:17.980
a South African filmmaker who was kind of up

00:26:17.980 --> 00:26:20.660
and coming at this point in his career when he...

00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:23.259
seemingly had the green light to make the island

00:26:23.259 --> 00:26:25.759
of dr moreau i'm curious have either of you guys

00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:27.680
seen any of his other movies besides this one

00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.740
no to be honest i'd never even heard of him prior

00:26:30.740 --> 00:26:33.640
to you know reading the wikipedia article about

00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:35.799
this movie and then watching the documentary

00:26:35.799 --> 00:26:38.160
about the making of it he seems like an interesting

00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:43.119
guy though yeah yeah interesting character i

00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:45.960
had actually seen color out of space in 2019

00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:50.059
when it came out And he was just another name.

00:26:50.180 --> 00:26:54.079
I didn't know who he was. And I was pleasantly

00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:57.539
surprised to see that he had been working in

00:26:57.539 --> 00:27:01.019
the 90s. And Moreau was his baby. It was his

00:27:01.019 --> 00:27:04.859
brainchild and his passion project. And as we'll

00:27:04.859 --> 00:27:08.279
get into, obviously, later, Moreau just kind

00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:12.160
of burned him so bad that he disappeared from

00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:19.069
Hollywood for decades. His comeback, if you will.

00:27:19.769 --> 00:27:23.450
But his other movies, Hardware and Dust Devil,

00:27:23.670 --> 00:27:29.329
look really interesting. And I am very eager

00:27:29.329 --> 00:27:34.089
to find those at some point. Yeah. Yeah. I have

00:27:34.089 --> 00:27:36.210
seen Dust Devil, which I like quite a bit. It's

00:27:36.210 --> 00:27:38.329
very messy. It's flawed. I think the storytelling

00:27:38.329 --> 00:27:40.970
is not really very sharp at times, but the visuals

00:27:40.970 --> 00:27:44.130
are incredible. The sense of tone is really amazing

00:27:44.130 --> 00:27:46.680
throughout. I really like that movie a lot. I've

00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:49.420
never seen Hardware, and I want to. It looks

00:27:49.420 --> 00:27:51.240
great from the little bit that I've seen from

00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:53.859
it. And Color Out of Space is fantastic. I love

00:27:53.859 --> 00:27:56.180
that movie. Nicolas Cage is in it. It's a great

00:27:56.180 --> 00:27:58.940
Lovecraftian horror movie. I remember seeing

00:27:58.940 --> 00:28:01.359
it in 2020 during COVID lockdown, and it seemed

00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:03.660
kind of appropriate for that time. And it's kind

00:28:03.660 --> 00:28:05.900
of crazy to think that Richard Stanley, after

00:28:05.900 --> 00:28:08.529
the debacle of Island of Dr. Moreau... the next

00:28:08.529 --> 00:28:10.269
feature that he made was Color Out of Space,

00:28:10.509 --> 00:28:13.529
like, you know, 25 years later. So he definitely

00:28:13.529 --> 00:28:15.170
took a long break from filmmaking, although he

00:28:15.170 --> 00:28:17.049
made some shorts and music videos and documentaries,

00:28:17.170 --> 00:28:20.170
but no features during that time. I can't wait

00:28:20.170 --> 00:28:23.430
to talk about Richard Stanley because he, as

00:28:23.430 --> 00:28:28.569
a person involved with this film, is as weird

00:28:28.569 --> 00:28:32.289
as the movie itself. Like, I think he is the

00:28:32.289 --> 00:28:36.289
source, for good and bad, of all the drama that

00:28:36.289 --> 00:28:39.799
happened with this film. Yeah, I mean, there's

00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:41.940
a lot of blame to go around, I think, for sure,

00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:46.019
you know? But yeah, it's easy to understand how

00:28:46.019 --> 00:28:48.900
he might have alienated some of the cast and

00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:51.299
crew and not been able to deal with Marlon Brando

00:28:51.299 --> 00:28:53.339
and Val Kilmer and their massive egos on this

00:28:53.339 --> 00:28:55.900
film. I do feel like Richard Stanley kind of

00:28:55.900 --> 00:28:58.799
was screwed over during the making of this movie.

00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:01.579
Oh, yeah. Don't get me wrong. I'm team Richard

00:29:01.579 --> 00:29:05.680
Stanley. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think he, based

00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:08.569
on what I have heard and read and watched, He

00:29:08.569 --> 00:29:11.609
was out of his depth. I just didn't know how

00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:14.490
to handle a studio picture coming from the indie

00:29:14.490 --> 00:29:17.809
background. Yeah, there was a guy in the documentary,

00:29:17.950 --> 00:29:20.309
I believe he was the production designer on the

00:29:20.309 --> 00:29:23.549
film, and it seemed to me like his account was

00:29:23.549 --> 00:29:27.089
trustworthy because it seemed like he was very

00:29:27.089 --> 00:29:29.849
sympathetic to Richard Stanley, liked his vision

00:29:29.849 --> 00:29:32.390
for the movie and everything, but he also says

00:29:32.390 --> 00:29:37.230
it seems like he couldn't cope with the... the

00:29:37.230 --> 00:29:40.069
necessary like meetings where he would like convey

00:29:40.069 --> 00:29:43.690
his vision to other people you know and all of

00:29:43.690 --> 00:29:45.390
these other things you'd have to do on like a

00:29:45.390 --> 00:29:47.390
bigger production like this so it seemed like

00:29:47.390 --> 00:29:49.650
you know from that guy's perspective at least

00:29:49.650 --> 00:29:52.890
it seemed like you know he liked stanley but

00:29:52.890 --> 00:29:55.109
definitely felt like he was out of his depth

00:29:55.109 --> 00:29:58.849
with it so yeah and it seems like he would have

00:29:58.849 --> 00:30:02.420
been out of his depth on you know like like making

00:30:02.420 --> 00:30:04.980
that transition to like a big budget hollywood

00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:06.619
movie would have been difficult no matter what

00:30:06.619 --> 00:30:09.759
and then for it to be just like the most difficult

00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:11.779
hollywood production of all time and these like

00:30:11.779 --> 00:30:15.339
crazy diva actors doing ridiculous insane things

00:30:15.339 --> 00:30:17.779
like the odds were stacked against richard stanley

00:30:17.779 --> 00:30:21.680
for sure yeah There was kind of a convoluted

00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:24.519
writing process as well. The initial draft of

00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:26.799
the screenplay, Richard Stanley co -wrote it

00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:29.279
with Michael Hare, I believe is how you pronounce

00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:32.799
his last name. Really interesting guy. He wrote

00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:34.980
the novel Dispatches, which is seen as one of

00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:38.759
the most powerful Vietnam War era novels from

00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:41.559
an American writer. Hare also did contributions

00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:44.700
to the Apocalypse Now screenplay. And there are

00:30:44.700 --> 00:30:47.980
a lot of overlaps between Island of Dr. Moreau

00:30:47.980 --> 00:30:50.710
and... apocalypse now slash heart of darkness

00:30:50.710 --> 00:30:52.309
so we'll talk about that a little bit as well

00:30:52.309 --> 00:30:55.210
and hair also co -wrote full metal jacket which

00:30:55.210 --> 00:30:57.089
i just re -watched recently i think it's a really

00:30:57.089 --> 00:30:59.410
great movie the stanley kubrick vietnam war era

00:30:59.410 --> 00:31:02.950
movie and then the last co -writer on that initial

00:31:02.950 --> 00:31:05.670
draft of the screenplay was waylon green who

00:31:05.670 --> 00:31:08.569
wrote the screenplays for the wild bunch sorcerer

00:31:08.569 --> 00:31:12.329
really classic new hollywood movies i like i

00:31:12.329 --> 00:31:14.740
don't know what you guys think but that I would

00:31:14.740 --> 00:31:16.700
love to read the initial draft of the screenplay.

00:31:16.759 --> 00:31:18.839
With those three writers, I'm sure it was incredible.

00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:21.000
It sounds amazing. That's the impression I got,

00:31:21.059 --> 00:31:23.180
at least again, watching the Lost Souls documentary,

00:31:23.420 --> 00:31:27.400
that it was an incredible screenplay, which of

00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:30.579
course just got whittled away and bastardized

00:31:30.579 --> 00:31:33.680
throughout the process. Yeah, totally. Because

00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:35.740
when John Frankenheimer came onto the movie,

00:31:35.859 --> 00:31:38.980
he demanded a rewrite by his frequent collaborator,

00:31:39.019 --> 00:31:42.000
Ron Hutchinson. Hutchinson had worked with Frankenheimer

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.819
on The Burning Season and Against the Wall. I'm

00:31:44.819 --> 00:31:46.839
not saying that I'm an expert on Frankenheimer

00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:48.500
movies, but I feel like it's a bad sign that

00:31:48.500 --> 00:31:50.539
I have not heard of those two movies. Like maybe

00:31:50.539 --> 00:31:53.259
that's not the best things that they made. So

00:31:53.259 --> 00:31:56.180
yeah, it seems like the rewritten screenplay.

00:31:57.019 --> 00:31:58.579
Definitely not as good as the initial draft.

00:31:58.700 --> 00:32:00.720
Not to mention the fact that they were rewriting

00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:02.599
it throughout the entire process of the production.

00:32:02.859 --> 00:32:05.700
So the screenplay was a total mess on this movie.

00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:09.539
And you had actors who constantly questioned

00:32:09.539 --> 00:32:12.400
it, like Val Kilmer. And you had actors like

00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:15.059
Brando who constantly wanted to throw his own

00:32:15.059 --> 00:32:17.940
ideas into the movie. Some of which made it in,

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:23.779
some of which did not. Like the dolphin subplot.

00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:28.750
Yeah. Yeah, for those of you who don't know what

00:32:28.750 --> 00:32:31.049
we're talking about, maybe I won't give it all

00:32:31.049 --> 00:32:32.869
away right now, but definitely watch that Lost

00:32:32.869 --> 00:32:35.069
Soul documentary where they talk about that a

00:32:35.069 --> 00:32:37.269
little bit. Marlon Brando had this crazy idea

00:32:37.269 --> 00:32:40.210
that Dr. Moreau would in fact be, would at least

00:32:40.210 --> 00:32:42.470
think that he was becoming a dolphin, was like

00:32:42.470 --> 00:32:45.150
in the process of transforming into a dolphin

00:32:45.150 --> 00:32:48.569
during like the story of the film, which is,

00:32:48.609 --> 00:32:50.809
and there's one scene that kind of like alludes

00:32:50.809 --> 00:32:52.410
to that a little bit, but it's not explained

00:32:52.410 --> 00:32:55.029
at all in the movie. It's nuts. It's really,

00:32:55.150 --> 00:32:59.180
really funny. It's crazy. Just a couple other

00:32:59.180 --> 00:33:01.480
crew members to talk about here real quick. The

00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:04.420
editor was Paul Rubell, who worked on some really

00:33:04.420 --> 00:33:07.299
good movies, or maybe not really good movies,

00:33:07.299 --> 00:33:09.500
but at least the editing was good in them. Blade,

00:33:09.539 --> 00:33:12.500
The Insider, The Cell. So like a pretty accomplished

00:33:12.500 --> 00:33:14.339
editor. I just wanted to say his name because

00:33:14.339 --> 00:33:16.200
I feel like he had a very difficult task ahead

00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:18.680
of him to whip this movie into shape, you know?

00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:22.059
Good point. Does anybody want to talk about Stan

00:33:22.059 --> 00:33:24.420
Winston? He's such a huge name in the monster

00:33:24.420 --> 00:33:27.309
movie. Field, you know, very well known name.

00:33:28.069 --> 00:33:29.930
So yeah, if anybody else wants to talk about

00:33:29.930 --> 00:33:31.910
him, you're welcome to do so. Yeah, well, you

00:33:31.910 --> 00:33:34.130
had noted in the notes here that he had just

00:33:34.130 --> 00:33:36.809
completed Congo. And yeah, unfortunately, I would

00:33:36.809 --> 00:33:38.529
say his work here is probably closer to what

00:33:38.529 --> 00:33:41.630
he did on Congo than on like Jurassic Park and

00:33:41.630 --> 00:33:45.109
Terminator 2 and some of the more, more beloved

00:33:45.109 --> 00:33:48.529
stuff that he did. But yeah, yeah, he's, you

00:33:48.529 --> 00:33:51.230
know, all time great special effects man. Just

00:33:51.230 --> 00:33:53.670
this just, you know, it's definitely not some

00:33:53.670 --> 00:33:57.059
of his best work. Yeah, looking at his filmography

00:33:57.059 --> 00:34:00.039
today, I realized like he did do a lot of amazing

00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:02.180
work and worked on some really incredible films.

00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:04.980
But like in the mid 90s, he had kind of a rough

00:34:04.980 --> 00:34:07.259
run of just like kind of poorly received movies.

00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:10.079
Shortly after this, he worked on The Relic, which

00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:12.519
we've talked about on the podcast before, which

00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:14.099
has pretty good special effects, but sort of

00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:17.050
like this one, those... creature effects and

00:34:17.050 --> 00:34:19.349
makeup effects are kind of combined with really

00:34:19.349 --> 00:34:22.070
terrible mid -90s CGI. And I feel like that kind

00:34:22.070 --> 00:34:24.769
of brings down Winston's work a little bit, unfortunately.

00:34:25.289 --> 00:34:28.670
I wonder if he just like, you know, after Terminator

00:34:28.670 --> 00:34:31.110
2 and Jurassic Park, if he was like so in demand

00:34:31.110 --> 00:34:33.570
that he just got like spread really thin or something.

00:34:33.730 --> 00:34:37.289
Because, yeah, it is bizarre that he did such

00:34:37.289 --> 00:34:39.869
great work on those movies in like the early

00:34:39.869 --> 00:34:42.570
90s and then seemed to kind of fall off just

00:34:42.570 --> 00:34:46.239
a few years later. Yeah. And like, I wonder too,

00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:48.760
if maybe it became like, like his company took

00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:50.380
over some of that work and it became a little

00:34:50.380 --> 00:34:52.099
bit more of like an assembly line thing with

00:34:52.099 --> 00:34:54.739
a lot of employees. And maybe the work kind of

00:34:54.739 --> 00:34:57.059
suffered a little bit for that reason. But that

00:34:57.059 --> 00:34:59.500
being said, there are some kind of cool, you

00:34:59.500 --> 00:35:01.820
know, I don't know if it's suitmation exactly,

00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:03.500
but there's some kind of cool creature effects

00:35:03.500 --> 00:35:05.539
in Island of Dr. Moreau. One of the good things

00:35:05.539 --> 00:35:08.440
about it, I would say here and there. I agree

00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:11.519
with that. I think some of the, some of the CGI

00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:15.679
though. is laughable even by mid -90s standards.

00:35:16.219 --> 00:35:18.619
There's like a scene where there's a bunch of

00:35:18.619 --> 00:35:22.860
rats on a boat that just seemed like, how did

00:35:22.860 --> 00:35:28.400
this make it into the final cut? This is really,

00:35:28.699 --> 00:35:31.980
this is like an Animaniacs segment here. Yeah.

00:35:34.750 --> 00:35:36.550
it seems like it just would have been way more

00:35:36.550 --> 00:35:38.769
difficult to have like the fleeting moments of

00:35:38.769 --> 00:35:41.570
CGI in this movie than to just have an actor

00:35:41.570 --> 00:35:43.849
wearing a suit, like jumping from one tree to

00:35:43.849 --> 00:35:45.889
the next, you know, like why wouldn't you just

00:35:45.889 --> 00:35:47.389
do that? It would look better than what you have

00:35:47.389 --> 00:35:50.230
in this movie, but. Or at least not, it would

00:35:50.230 --> 00:35:53.389
look just as silly, but just better because it's

00:35:53.389 --> 00:35:57.289
practical. Yeah. I don't know. Exactly. That's

00:35:57.289 --> 00:36:00.489
how I feel about it. One of countless bad decisions

00:36:00.489 --> 00:36:02.570
that was made during the, during the production

00:36:02.570 --> 00:36:04.889
of this movie. I don't know how much you guys

00:36:04.889 --> 00:36:06.969
know about this producer, Edward R. Pressman,

00:36:07.010 --> 00:36:08.510
but just doing a little bit more research about

00:36:08.510 --> 00:36:10.429
him, he sounds like a pretty fascinating guy.

00:36:10.510 --> 00:36:12.510
He gave a lot of young filmmakers some of their

00:36:12.510 --> 00:36:15.269
early starts, including Brian De Palma on Sisters

00:36:15.269 --> 00:36:17.670
and Phantom of the Paradise, the latter of which

00:36:17.670 --> 00:36:20.309
is amazing. I love Phantom of the Paradise. Pressman

00:36:20.309 --> 00:36:22.389
also produced Blue Steel, an early Catherine

00:36:22.389 --> 00:36:24.869
Bigelow movie. He produced Bad Lieutenant by

00:36:24.869 --> 00:36:27.130
Abel Ferrara, which in my opinion is not a great

00:36:27.130 --> 00:36:30.059
movie, but kind of... helped bring Abel Ferrara

00:36:30.059 --> 00:36:32.420
to a little bit more recognition. So you would

00:36:32.420 --> 00:36:34.739
think that Pressman would be a good choice to,

00:36:34.739 --> 00:36:37.780
you know, work with Richard Stanley, give him

00:36:37.780 --> 00:36:39.539
an opportunity for this like bigger exposure

00:36:39.539 --> 00:36:42.539
movie. But even Pressman's backing couldn't come

00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:46.420
through in the end on this one. And then I just

00:36:46.420 --> 00:36:48.280
kind of list a couple executive producers here

00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:51.159
that worked on Island of Dr. Moreau. Tim Zinneman

00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:52.880
and Robert Shea, who is then the head of New

00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:54.659
Line Cinema, are just some of the names that

00:36:54.659 --> 00:36:56.840
I put down here. I think in that Lost Soul documentary,

00:36:57.059 --> 00:36:59.300
they also mentioned Mike DeLuca, some other names.

00:36:59.659 --> 00:37:02.199
And I just think that's relevant because the

00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:04.199
producers of this movie played such a decisive

00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.760
role in the finished product in terms of the

00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:10.059
chaotic production that we'll talk about soon,

00:37:10.260 --> 00:37:14.139
the personnel changes. You know, it's a case

00:37:14.139 --> 00:37:16.559
study in how just like Hollywood studio filmmaking

00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:19.619
really played a decisive role in the finished

00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:21.460
product. Obviously not in a good way in this

00:37:21.460 --> 00:37:24.380
case. Yeah. Yeah. They had a lot of decisions

00:37:24.380 --> 00:37:27.960
to make. And ultimately, that's the job of the

00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:31.960
producer. They're making those decisions. They're

00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:34.440
not worried about the creativity, the creative

00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:37.079
vision. They have a bottom line. They have a

00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:41.190
product to sell, at least in this case. Yeah,

00:37:41.309 --> 00:37:44.650
you'll see you see how it played out. Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:44.750 --> 00:37:46.030
And sort of like we briefly mentioned before,

00:37:46.090 --> 00:37:48.090
that's not necessarily to throw them under the

00:37:48.090 --> 00:37:49.829
bus. They probably did have good reasons for

00:37:49.829 --> 00:37:51.750
thinking that Richard Stanley might not be able

00:37:51.750 --> 00:37:54.150
to handle this project. But yeah, it did not.

00:37:54.170 --> 00:37:56.570
It did not end well, despite those reservations.

00:37:57.449 --> 00:38:00.289
All right. I think we should dive into the production

00:38:00.289 --> 00:38:02.170
backstory of this movie, which, like we mentioned,

00:38:02.230 --> 00:38:04.510
is so convoluted, so chaotic, it's going to take

00:38:04.510 --> 00:38:07.030
up probably the bulk of this episode. But it's

00:38:07.030 --> 00:38:09.210
fascinating. It's just so entertaining to me

00:38:09.210 --> 00:38:11.750
to. find out about the making of this movie.

00:38:11.829 --> 00:38:13.429
And we'll talk a little bit about the cast of

00:38:13.429 --> 00:38:16.829
the film too, which was equally difficult to

00:38:16.829 --> 00:38:19.190
bring together in the final, in the finished

00:38:19.190 --> 00:38:22.489
version. Okay, go for it. All right, so I'll

00:38:22.489 --> 00:38:24.469
start it off just because that's the way I happened

00:38:24.469 --> 00:38:27.269
to write the Google Doc here, but we'll kind

00:38:27.269 --> 00:38:29.769
of trade off here and talk about the backstory

00:38:29.769 --> 00:38:33.469
here. So Richard Stanley had dreamed of making

00:38:33.469 --> 00:38:35.969
Island of Dr. Moreau into a movie since he was

00:38:35.969 --> 00:38:37.750
a child, since he was like four years old. He

00:38:37.750 --> 00:38:40.150
always loved this book. And once he got a little

00:38:40.150 --> 00:38:42.570
bit of clout behind him with the movies that

00:38:42.570 --> 00:38:44.389
we mentioned before, Hardware and Dust Devil,

00:38:44.550 --> 00:38:46.849
he started working on this project even before

00:38:46.849 --> 00:38:48.989
he had the rights to the novel and before he

00:38:48.989 --> 00:38:51.170
had any kind of producer backing him. He started

00:38:51.170 --> 00:38:53.250
making storyboards. He started envisioning what

00:38:53.250 --> 00:38:55.670
the story would be like. So he spent years working

00:38:55.670 --> 00:38:57.829
on this movie before there was ever a chance

00:38:57.829 --> 00:39:00.780
that he would actually be able to make it. His

00:39:00.780 --> 00:39:02.619
initial vision, we kind of talked about this

00:39:02.619 --> 00:39:05.139
briefly before, but was significantly darker

00:39:05.139 --> 00:39:06.840
than the version that finally made it to the

00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:09.179
screen. Again, I haven't read that screenplay.

00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:11.780
We see the storyboards a little bit in that Lost

00:39:11.780 --> 00:39:14.699
Soul documentary, but they look really fascinating,

00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:17.239
just like dark and violent and kind of twisted,

00:39:17.420 --> 00:39:20.239
very sexual. Would have been a pretty amazing

00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:23.929
movie. So a chance meeting brought Richard Stanley

00:39:23.929 --> 00:39:26.670
to Edward R. Pressman, and that led to New Line

00:39:26.670 --> 00:39:29.030
Cinema greenlighting The Island of Dr. Moreau.

00:39:29.110 --> 00:39:31.309
I think in that Lost Soul documentary, Stanley

00:39:31.309 --> 00:39:33.630
mentions that he met Pressman on a bus in London,

00:39:33.730 --> 00:39:36.469
and that's kind of how the green light came about,

00:39:36.590 --> 00:39:38.170
which is kind of crazy to think that that's how

00:39:38.170 --> 00:39:43.000
this insane, chaotic production started. Again,

00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:45.639
Richard Stanley's initial vision was quite different

00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:48.679
than what made it to the screen. He initially

00:39:48.679 --> 00:39:51.960
wanted Jürgen Prochnow to play Dr. Moreau. And

00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:54.480
in that early vision, that would have been kind

00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:58.159
of like a new age cult leader, long haired sort

00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:00.900
of Charles Manson -ish almost character. But

00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:03.380
instead of Jürgen Prochnow, New Line Cinema somehow

00:40:03.380 --> 00:40:06.340
got Marlon Brando attached. And that's kind of

00:40:06.340 --> 00:40:08.860
when the troubles of the production began on

00:40:08.860 --> 00:40:11.969
Island of Dr. Moreau. Yeah, Marlon Brando. I

00:40:11.969 --> 00:40:16.730
mean, arguably the greatest actor of the 20th

00:40:16.730 --> 00:40:20.909
century, at least on film and at least in the

00:40:20.909 --> 00:40:24.230
Western world. I'm not going to go on about Marlon

00:40:24.230 --> 00:40:26.929
Brando. I'm a big fan boy when I was getting

00:40:26.929 --> 00:40:29.550
into acting. In high school, I've seen all his

00:40:29.550 --> 00:40:32.210
classic movies. So another reason why I've long

00:40:32.210 --> 00:40:35.329
wanted to watch this movie, because his reputation

00:40:35.329 --> 00:40:39.670
kind of took a really big hit in the 70s onward.

00:40:40.190 --> 00:40:42.820
But anyways. Shortly into that pre -production,

00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:45.519
we're going back to Richard Stanley now. Richard

00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:49.360
Stanley learned that with all these changes that

00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:53.420
he had been replaced by Roman Polanski, which

00:40:53.420 --> 00:40:56.400
I'm like, I kind of would love to see that movie

00:40:56.400 --> 00:41:01.360
too, Polanski's version. Yeah, man, that would

00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:04.260
have been very twisted for sure, very dark. Yeah,

00:41:04.260 --> 00:41:09.730
no shade to Stanley there. This is so bizarre.

00:41:09.909 --> 00:41:14.389
Richard Stanley was a practicing Wiccan, or he

00:41:14.389 --> 00:41:16.570
was really into witchcraft at the time. Maybe

00:41:16.570 --> 00:41:18.469
he still is now, I don't know. But at the time,

00:41:18.510 --> 00:41:22.849
so much so that upon learning of Polanski's involvement,

00:41:23.210 --> 00:41:26.449
he visited a warlock friend of his. And that's

00:41:26.449 --> 00:41:30.670
his words. And as he's quoted, he's Stanley's

00:41:30.670 --> 00:41:33.989
featured speaker in the documentary. Richard

00:41:33.989 --> 00:41:36.130
Stanley says, quote, knowing that the odds were

00:41:36.130 --> 00:41:40.670
against me, I resorted to witchcraft. And it's

00:41:40.670 --> 00:41:42.329
just, I mean, whether you believe in this stuff

00:41:42.329 --> 00:41:46.829
or not, it did maybe get Richard Stanley back

00:41:46.829 --> 00:41:50.210
in the director's chair. And it got Marlon Brando

00:41:50.210 --> 00:41:54.869
on board. Because Brando was surprisingly sympathetic

00:41:54.869 --> 00:41:58.550
to Richard Stanley. This is some weird trivia.

00:41:58.670 --> 00:42:01.230
I'm just going to read this verbatim so I don't

00:42:01.230 --> 00:42:04.219
mess it up. So Richard Stanley's great -grandfather

00:42:04.219 --> 00:42:07.480
was the legendary African explorer Sir Henry

00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:10.400
Morton Stanley, who was one of the inspirations

00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:13.159
for the character of Captain Kurtz in Heart of

00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:15.679
Darkness and, of course, the film adaptation

00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:19.599
Apocalypse Now. Brando is still fascinated by

00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:21.260
this character who he had played in Apocalypse

00:42:21.260 --> 00:42:25.000
Now and Richard Stanley's connection to it. So

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:27.000
all the Venn diagrams are coming together here.

00:42:28.429 --> 00:42:30.670
All this points back to the surprising connection

00:42:30.670 --> 00:42:33.469
between H .G. Wells' Island of Dr. Moreau and

00:42:33.469 --> 00:42:35.989
Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness, which were

00:42:35.989 --> 00:42:40.309
published three years apart in 1896 and 1899,

00:42:40.389 --> 00:42:43.690
respectively. Both books concern white characters

00:42:43.690 --> 00:42:45.650
who venture into the, quote, heart of darkness

00:42:45.650 --> 00:42:48.829
and discover mad explorers driven insane by their

00:42:48.829 --> 00:42:52.809
isolation and God complex. Wells and Conrad had

00:42:52.809 --> 00:42:55.440
actually been friends. But the friendship ended

00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:58.019
when Wells accused Conrad of ripping off his

00:42:58.019 --> 00:43:00.940
story, and this feud lasted the rest of their

00:43:00.940 --> 00:43:05.940
lives. I just want to insert, I've read both

00:43:05.940 --> 00:43:10.039
books. I think I don't draw those connections

00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:14.099
more deeply than just like, okay, two white guys

00:43:14.099 --> 00:43:16.920
with a god complex in the jungle. I think they're

00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:19.579
very different stories. But then again, I haven't

00:43:19.579 --> 00:43:22.059
read Heart of Darkness in a while, so I might

00:43:22.059 --> 00:43:25.650
stand corrected. But anyways, Marlon Brando insisted

00:43:25.650 --> 00:43:27.849
he would only make this movie if Richard Stanley

00:43:27.849 --> 00:43:31.590
stayed on. So New Line, who were skeptical of

00:43:31.590 --> 00:43:33.829
Richard Stanley for being artsy and eccentric

00:43:33.829 --> 00:43:37.909
and insular, they stuck with their director.

00:43:38.349 --> 00:43:42.269
I'll also mention that Brando at this time in

00:43:42.269 --> 00:43:46.309
the 90s was certainly a name, but he wasn't box

00:43:46.309 --> 00:43:50.110
office. He wasn't going to fill the seats. So

00:43:50.110 --> 00:43:53.360
that's why they needed someone else. That someone

00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:55.699
else eventually became Val Kilmer, but not at

00:43:55.699 --> 00:43:59.599
first. Not at first. So I'll pass the baton over

00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:05.219
to Frank there. Yeah, so Bruce Willis got recruited

00:44:05.219 --> 00:44:08.880
to play Edward Pendrick, the UN negotiator who's

00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:10.539
brought to the island after his plane crash.

00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:14.519
And James Woods was cast as Montgomery, who's

00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:18.119
Moreau's chief assistant. So with that cast in

00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:21.980
place, they started on the pre -production. Richard

00:44:21.980 --> 00:44:24.019
Stanley was working with Stan Winston on the

00:44:24.019 --> 00:44:26.679
creature designs. They were preparing sets and

00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:30.639
scouting out shooting locations. But as they

00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:32.980
were doing that, Bruce Willis had to drop out,

00:44:33.059 --> 00:44:36.840
possibly due to marital difficulties he was having

00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:40.059
with Demi Moore at the time. And they did indeed

00:44:40.059 --> 00:44:42.159
get divorced, I think, a couple of years after

00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:45.420
that. So Bruce Willis got replaced by Val Kilmer,

00:44:45.619 --> 00:44:47.940
who was at the height of his stardom then because

00:44:47.940 --> 00:44:52.639
he had just been in Batman forever. But Kilmer

00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:56.460
caused problems right away because he was demanding

00:44:56.460 --> 00:45:00.219
that his shooting schedule be cut by 40%. So

00:45:00.219 --> 00:45:02.980
the kind of ingenious solution that Richard Stanley

00:45:02.980 --> 00:45:07.159
had for this was to switch his role to Montgomery

00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:12.139
instead of the lead. So by doing that, they had

00:45:12.139 --> 00:45:16.559
to kick James Woods off of the film. And, you

00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:18.719
know, they probably regretted that pretty quickly.

00:45:20.759 --> 00:45:23.619
So to replace someone in that lead role, they

00:45:23.619 --> 00:45:27.280
brought in Rob Morrow from the TV show Northern

00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:29.539
Exposure. I don't know if he has any other significant

00:45:29.539 --> 00:45:32.880
credits. He's a guy who I recognize, but I never

00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:35.559
really watched Northern Exposure, so I don't

00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:37.780
know that I've ever actually seen him in anything.

00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:41.179
I know I've seen some episodes of that show.

00:45:41.400 --> 00:45:44.059
When I was looking at his filmography recently,

00:45:44.139 --> 00:45:47.210
I feel like he was like... You know, he was never

00:45:47.210 --> 00:45:49.309
the lead in, like, an extremely well -known movie.

00:45:49.369 --> 00:45:50.909
I feel like maybe he was, like, a supporting

00:45:50.909 --> 00:45:53.730
actor in some, like, moderately successful movies

00:45:53.730 --> 00:45:55.949
from the early 90s, but that's all I really was

00:45:55.949 --> 00:45:59.250
able to see in his filmography there. Yeah. So

00:45:59.250 --> 00:46:02.809
I don't know him all that well either. As we'll

00:46:02.809 --> 00:46:05.909
find out, he did not last long on this production.

00:46:07.110 --> 00:46:09.690
Well, after all that, it's probably a good time

00:46:09.690 --> 00:46:12.250
for our sponsor break. It seems a little bit

00:46:12.250 --> 00:46:16.570
anticlimactic, but here we go. Camp Kaiju is

00:46:16.570 --> 00:46:18.710
sponsored by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack, powered

00:46:18.710 --> 00:46:21.329
by Coldwell Banker Realty. Your source for real

00:46:21.329 --> 00:46:24.230
estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor

00:46:24.230 --> 00:46:26.989
clients and residential buyers. Reach out to

00:46:26.989 --> 00:46:28.829
the Zach Pack today for real estate services.

00:46:29.289 --> 00:46:32.250
Follow the Zach Pack on social media and contact

00:46:32.250 --> 00:46:35.309
the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Link

00:46:35.309 --> 00:46:39.710
in the show notes. Vincent, do we have any correspondences

00:46:39.710 --> 00:46:42.789
from Minya's mailbox today? Yeah, we do have

00:46:42.789 --> 00:46:45.349
a few, and I just want to shout out our patrons.

00:46:45.969 --> 00:46:50.309
I see you. I see your comments. They're just

00:46:50.309 --> 00:46:53.269
so good that I want to give time to discuss them.

00:46:53.550 --> 00:46:56.329
And unfortunately, with this jam -packed episode,

00:46:56.690 --> 00:47:01.429
I just wanted to pick a briefer comment. This

00:47:01.429 --> 00:47:05.150
is from a new subscriber named Lita on YouTube,

00:47:05.230 --> 00:47:10.250
and she says of Dracula's daughter, Hi, new subscriber

00:47:10.250 --> 00:47:14.280
here. Thanks for good content. And then she has

00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:18.420
a string of emojis, heart eyes, star eyes, red

00:47:18.420 --> 00:47:22.880
heart, black heart, vampire, and then three bats.

00:47:23.739 --> 00:47:27.320
I love that because Dracula's Daughter, you know,

00:47:27.340 --> 00:47:31.039
it's an older movie. Maybe not as many people

00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:33.119
listen to that episode as some other episodes,

00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:37.360
but we got a lot of positive feedback from Dracula's

00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:40.690
Daughter. So I just want to shout out. our listeners

00:47:40.690 --> 00:47:44.050
who really appreciated that conversation with

00:47:44.050 --> 00:47:48.090
Naomi. Yeah, thank you, Lita. It's great. Yeah.

00:47:52.929 --> 00:47:54.889
Peter Lorre, you know, he's around here somewhere.

00:47:55.269 --> 00:47:59.670
Is he still crashing at your place, Matt? You

00:47:59.670 --> 00:48:01.670
know, he vanished, much like Richard Stanley

00:48:01.670 --> 00:48:04.110
at the airport in Australia. I don't know where

00:48:04.110 --> 00:48:06.449
he went. He's probably at a retreat somewhere

00:48:06.449 --> 00:48:08.469
around here. Who knows? Eating his bucket of

00:48:08.469 --> 00:48:11.550
fish heads, though, I'm sure. I would love to

00:48:11.550 --> 00:48:15.449
see what kind of retreat he's going to for long

00:48:15.449 --> 00:48:20.190
deceased horror stars. Probably just the bottom

00:48:20.190 --> 00:48:21.849
of a well somewhere. That's what he means by

00:48:21.849 --> 00:48:26.289
retreat. Well, wherever he's at, he has recorded

00:48:26.289 --> 00:48:29.869
a segment for us for the Poverty Row Picture

00:48:29.869 --> 00:48:33.349
Show, a movie called Spooks Run Wild from 1941.

00:48:34.460 --> 00:48:36.820
That sounds made up, but it's a it's it's a fun

00:48:36.820 --> 00:48:39.280
movie, actually, with Bela Lugosi and the East

00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:41.960
End kids. And there's another dwarf actor in

00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:45.159
that actually named Angelo Rosito. So just a

00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:47.099
coincidence there. We're featuring two movies

00:48:47.099 --> 00:48:51.400
with smaller, shorter than average actors. So,

00:48:51.460 --> 00:49:08.449
Peter, take it away. Welcome to Poverty Row Studios

00:49:08.449 --> 00:49:12.030
on the other side of Hollywood. Where the stars

00:49:12.030 --> 00:49:14.409
were dimmer and the red carpet stripped with

00:49:14.409 --> 00:49:17.210
blood. Together we will watch the best of the

00:49:17.210 --> 00:49:19.909
worst. Movies known for their limited budgets,

00:49:20.269 --> 00:49:23.550
outlandish concepts, and questionable performances.

00:49:24.090 --> 00:49:27.409
But with enough haunted houses, zombies, ape

00:49:27.409 --> 00:49:30.010
men, and devil bats to keep you up at night.

00:49:30.309 --> 00:49:34.179
This is the Poverty Row Picture Show. I dare

00:49:34.179 --> 00:49:40.760
you to sleep through these nightmares. I am your

00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:44.639
host, Peter Lorre. You may know me from such

00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:49.900
horror pictures as Arsenic and Old Lace and Tales

00:49:49.900 --> 00:49:55.739
of Terror, the later of which I co -star with

00:49:55.739 --> 00:49:59.440
fellow creatures of the night, that villainous

00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:03.989
Vincent Price and Basil. Skull and Crossbones

00:50:03.989 --> 00:50:08.409
Wrathbone. I recently met up with my blood -curdling

00:50:08.409 --> 00:50:11.989
colleagues at a secret retreat for long -dead

00:50:11.989 --> 00:50:17.369
horror icons. No, I swore an oath to keep our

00:50:17.369 --> 00:50:21.250
antics under wraps, but I can tell you I have

00:50:21.250 --> 00:50:24.130
never seen anyone tear up a dance floor like

00:50:24.130 --> 00:50:28.429
Boris Karloff after one too many. But listeners,

00:50:28.670 --> 00:50:33.429
it is good to be back in my own room, in Matthew's

00:50:33.429 --> 00:50:37.530
home. He even had a bucket of fish heads waiting

00:50:37.530 --> 00:50:42.510
for me. He is a hell of a guy. Oh, as for Pierre,

00:50:42.769 --> 00:50:46.489
he is taking some time off, but remember those

00:50:46.489 --> 00:50:51.210
lilacs he so thoughtfully left me? Yes, they

00:50:51.210 --> 00:50:57.760
are thriving beyond my wildest dreams. to find

00:50:57.760 --> 00:51:04.960
them as tall as I, and... Oh, what is this? Listeners,

00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:09.159
there is a strange light emanating from the leaves.

00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:13.099
I turn off the light, and they glow in the dark.

00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:17.320
Hmm, I do not know what this is all about, but

00:51:17.320 --> 00:51:21.639
I will put this out of my mind for now as I turn

00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:24.539
to reviewing this week's Poverty Row picture.

00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:30.119
Spooks Run Wild, starring Bela Lugosi and that

00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:33.760
gang of grotesque teenagers, the East End Kids.

00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:38.880
Now this picture finds the kids solving the mystery

00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:43.079
of the, quote, monster killer as they spend the

00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:47.739
night in a countryside haunted house. Hijinks

00:51:47.739 --> 00:51:51.519
abound as the kids run into cobwebs, suits of

00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:57.469
armor, and secret passageways. Lugosi plays the

00:51:57.469 --> 00:52:01.230
supposed monster along with his dwarf sidekick.

00:52:01.889 --> 00:52:04.949
Now how does this story of hilarious suspense

00:52:04.949 --> 00:52:12.889
end? You will have to see for yourself. The last

00:52:12.889 --> 00:52:15.369
time we saw the East End kids on the poverty

00:52:15.369 --> 00:52:19.530
row picture show was the odious boys of the city

00:52:19.530 --> 00:52:24.030
rife with Racist jabs at the lone black actor

00:52:24.030 --> 00:52:28.730
of the troupe, Sunshine Sammy Morrison. How does

00:52:28.730 --> 00:52:33.269
Mr. Morrison fare in this outing? I am pleased

00:52:33.269 --> 00:52:38.130
to say, much, much better. The problematic jokes

00:52:38.130 --> 00:52:42.230
are still there, albeit turned down, and Mr.

00:52:42.469 --> 00:52:45.309
Morrison appears more confident in his presence

00:52:45.309 --> 00:52:49.170
in the gang, allowing such teasing to roll off

00:52:49.170 --> 00:52:52.750
his back. He even gets some good zingers back

00:52:52.750 --> 00:52:57.150
at his friends. The script is co -written by

00:52:57.150 --> 00:53:00.250
Carl Foreman who would go on to write the classics

00:53:00.250 --> 00:53:04.929
High Noon and The Bridge on the River Kwai, believe

00:53:04.929 --> 00:53:10.409
it or not. Now as for Bela Lugosi, he holds his

00:53:10.409 --> 00:53:13.829
own and appears to enjoy spoofing his vampire

00:53:13.829 --> 00:53:19.150
image. The picture was a moneymaker despite mixed

00:53:19.150 --> 00:53:24.190
reviews, and Monogram decided to reunite Lugosi

00:53:24.190 --> 00:53:29.210
and the kids in 1943's Ghosts on the Loose, which

00:53:29.210 --> 00:53:33.070
we will review at a later date. Next time, however,

00:53:33.349 --> 00:53:37.210
we will discuss a John Carradine picture from

00:53:37.210 --> 00:53:43.030
PRC entitled Bluebeard. Now, where did I put

00:53:43.030 --> 00:53:58.769
my planting shears? Yeah, so glad he's back,

00:53:58.849 --> 00:54:00.369
by the way. I kind of thought that ended at the

00:54:00.369 --> 00:54:02.530
end of last season, but I'm glad that he's back.

00:54:03.070 --> 00:54:07.570
We couldn't keep him away. Just when you think

00:54:07.570 --> 00:54:10.070
he's out. No, that quote doesn't work in this

00:54:10.070 --> 00:54:11.570
case. Sorry, never mind. You know what I'm getting

00:54:11.570 --> 00:54:13.670
at, though. When I was listening to the Beast

00:54:13.670 --> 00:54:17.250
from 20 ,000 Fathoms episode the other day, all

00:54:17.250 --> 00:54:19.829
the stuff about the fish heads in Matt's fridge

00:54:19.829 --> 00:54:24.920
was making me laugh pretty hard. And it's true.

00:54:25.059 --> 00:54:26.880
I cannot get the stench out of my apartment.

00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:31.599
It's terrible. Oh, gross. I love the Peter Lorre

00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:58.559
thing. You're convinced that the thing on this

00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:02.039
table isn't human? Its cries are human. Do you

00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:05.380
know what it is, what I began with? No. An animal.

00:55:06.219 --> 00:55:08.739
Well, we may as well discuss this frankly, now

00:55:08.739 --> 00:55:11.679
that you know the facts. I want to prove how

00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:34.030
completely she was a woman. I'm not beaten. Get

00:55:34.030 --> 00:55:37.889
everything ready. For what? This time I'll burn

00:55:37.889 --> 00:55:42.130
out all the animal in her. I'll make her completely

00:55:42.130 --> 00:55:56.559
human. On Dr. Moreau's island, there are three

00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:00.500
rules. Don't drink the water. Don't disturb the

00:56:00.500 --> 00:56:04.440
natives. And whatever you do, don't feed the

00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:09.280
animals. Let's go! New Line Cinema presents the

00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:12.940
science fiction event of the summer. Marlon Brando,

00:56:12.980 --> 00:56:16.940
Val Kilmer, David Thewlis. The Island of Dr.

00:56:17.139 --> 00:56:19.159
Moreau, directed by John Frankenheimer, rated

00:56:19.159 --> 00:56:24.780
PG -13. Now playing. Even before shooting was

00:56:24.780 --> 00:56:27.280
set to commence, tragedy struck Marlon Brando.

00:56:27.400 --> 00:56:30.460
His daughter Cheyenne, from his third marriage

00:56:30.460 --> 00:56:34.039
to a French Polynesian actress named Tarita Tarapaya,

00:56:34.219 --> 00:56:36.880
his daughter Cheyenne committed suicide. Marlon

00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:39.480
Brando and Cheyenne had an extremely difficult

00:56:39.480 --> 00:56:42.360
relationship, a very distant relationship, some

00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:44.480
might say not even really a relationship at all.

00:56:44.619 --> 00:56:47.579
Marlon Brando did not allow her to visit him

00:56:47.579 --> 00:56:50.179
in the United States or her brother, his son,

00:56:50.219 --> 00:56:53.699
with the same wife. And he rarely visited them

00:56:53.699 --> 00:56:57.260
in Tahiti. I read that Cheyenne sort of idolized

00:56:57.260 --> 00:56:59.059
Marlon Brando when she was a kid. But then when

00:56:59.059 --> 00:57:01.219
she got to be a teenager and a young adult, she

00:57:01.219 --> 00:57:03.280
was a model and an actress and really grew to

00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:05.860
hate Marlon Brando. And they didn't really have

00:57:05.860 --> 00:57:08.239
any kind of relationship whatsoever. Regardless

00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:11.119
of all that, her suicide really sent Marlon Brando

00:57:11.119 --> 00:57:13.760
into a spiral of depression. He retreated to

00:57:13.760 --> 00:57:16.320
his private island. He did not communicate with

00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:18.760
the cast and crew at all. They had no idea if

00:57:18.760 --> 00:57:21.139
or when he was going to show up to make The Island

00:57:21.139 --> 00:57:25.329
of Dr. Moreau. Even so, shooting did start outside

00:57:25.329 --> 00:57:28.389
of Cairns in northeast Australia, which that

00:57:28.389 --> 00:57:31.070
documentary Lost Soul kind of says is like the

00:57:31.070 --> 00:57:33.150
worst place they could have chosen to shoot this

00:57:33.150 --> 00:57:35.769
movie. Like really terrible weather, really remote.

00:57:35.929 --> 00:57:38.230
They could have found like jungle sort of scenery

00:57:38.230 --> 00:57:41.230
much more easily than this place. But that is

00:57:41.230 --> 00:57:43.679
where they shot the film. Tensions were continuing

00:57:43.679 --> 00:57:46.199
to grow between New Line Cinema and Richard Stanley.

00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:48.559
Like we've already alluded to, Stanley had some

00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:50.920
pretty eccentric behavior. He would skip production

00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:53.119
meetings. He would kind of hole himself up in

00:57:53.119 --> 00:57:55.760
his bungalow that he rented. He maybe was not

00:57:55.760 --> 00:57:57.800
always very good at communicating his vision

00:57:57.800 --> 00:58:00.519
to other people on the project. Some false rumors

00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:02.760
about Richard Stanley spread. It's hard to say

00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:05.019
exactly where they came from. There was a story

00:58:05.019 --> 00:58:07.340
about him climbing a tree after a long day of

00:58:07.340 --> 00:58:09.750
shooting and refusing to come back down. Pretty

00:58:09.750 --> 00:58:12.030
much all the cast says that did not happen. That's

00:58:12.030 --> 00:58:14.630
ridiculous. They never saw that happen. But nonetheless,

00:58:14.989 --> 00:58:17.969
all these rumors started to grow about this artsy,

00:58:17.969 --> 00:58:21.210
eccentric young director. But still, even aside

00:58:21.210 --> 00:58:23.170
from those rumors, the main source of tension

00:58:23.170 --> 00:58:27.409
was Richard Stanley's inability to handle or

00:58:27.409 --> 00:58:31.190
tone down Val Kilmer's just kind of diva -ish,

00:58:31.250 --> 00:58:33.309
really honestly bullying behavior during the

00:58:33.309 --> 00:58:35.309
production of this movie. Again, he was at the

00:58:35.309 --> 00:58:37.730
height of his fame after Batman Forever. He arrived

00:58:37.730 --> 00:58:40.099
to the production two days late. He proceeded

00:58:40.099 --> 00:58:42.159
to be a nightmare to the entire cast and crew,

00:58:42.199 --> 00:58:43.920
according to pretty much everybody involved with

00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:46.300
this movie. He would question creative decisions,

00:58:46.619 --> 00:58:52.719
demand more screen time than his co -stars, and

00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:55.440
refused to read the dialogue as written. Sounds

00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:57.699
like it was pretty bad dialogue, but still, his

00:58:57.699 --> 00:58:59.860
constant arguing I'm sure did not make it better.

00:59:00.510 --> 00:59:02.510
There was one story too in that documentary about

00:59:02.510 --> 00:59:05.050
how he lit a cameraman's hair on fire as sort

00:59:05.050 --> 00:59:07.630
of a prank or just like he thought he was being

00:59:07.630 --> 00:59:10.449
funny or something. So yeah, really a handful

00:59:10.449 --> 00:59:12.909
on this movie. He already had a reputation for

00:59:12.909 --> 00:59:15.090
being a pretty difficult actor. And that reputation

00:59:15.090 --> 00:59:18.070
was just set in stone after this movie. And honestly,

00:59:18.230 --> 00:59:20.730
it set him, you know, he was in the A -list firmly

00:59:20.730 --> 00:59:23.230
at this time. And after Island of Dr. Moreau,

00:59:23.329 --> 00:59:25.489
that changed pretty quickly, kind of tumbled

00:59:25.489 --> 00:59:28.090
down the list of Hollywood stars. Much later,

00:59:28.190 --> 00:59:30.909
Val Kilmer would say that his unruly behavior

00:59:30.909 --> 00:59:32.789
during the making of this movie was partially

00:59:32.789 --> 00:59:35.949
a result of the fact that he was also going through

00:59:35.949 --> 00:59:38.429
marital troubles. He found out through a TV news

00:59:38.429 --> 00:59:41.230
report that his wife, Joanne Wally, was divorcing

00:59:41.230 --> 00:59:43.710
him. And indeed, he was served divorce papers

00:59:43.710 --> 00:59:45.469
very early during the shooting of the movie.

00:59:45.590 --> 00:59:49.210
So that certainly did not help his already very

00:59:49.210 --> 00:59:53.469
difficult behavior. Yeah. I just gotta say that

00:59:53.469 --> 00:59:59.030
with Brando AWOL that Richard Stanley lost his

00:59:59.030 --> 01:00:03.639
main ally, The only reason why New Line was keeping

01:00:03.639 --> 01:00:06.940
Stanley was because of Brando's insistence. So

01:00:06.940 --> 01:00:10.599
Stanley was not helped by that. And Matt, I love

01:00:10.599 --> 01:00:13.239
that you brought up how the shooting location

01:00:13.239 --> 01:00:16.920
was so remote. It was like an hour on dirt roads

01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:21.500
from the hotel each day, there and back. And

01:00:21.500 --> 01:00:25.539
it's so funny. I think it's the AD that Frankenheimer

01:00:25.539 --> 01:00:28.480
brought in. In the documentary, the AD is like...

01:00:29.279 --> 01:00:33.360
why this was so poorly chosen. Like there's jungle

01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:35.559
everywhere. I walk out my door, there's jungle.

01:00:35.619 --> 01:00:38.579
Why do we have to drive an hour for more jungles?

01:00:39.059 --> 01:00:42.599
Yeah. And Richard Stanley at least brings up

01:00:42.599 --> 01:00:44.619
like a big landmark that's in the area, like

01:00:44.619 --> 01:00:47.019
a big mountain that can kind of be like orienting

01:00:47.019 --> 01:00:49.320
space or whatever. I did not notice that mountain

01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:51.440
a single time throughout the entire movie. So

01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:53.639
if that was the reason to shoot there, that does

01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:57.199
not seem sufficient. Nope. So adding insult to

01:00:57.199 --> 01:01:00.480
injury with the location in the jungles of Northern

01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:04.800
Australia, a hurricane hit the production and

01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:07.380
they had to halt everything for several days.

01:01:07.480 --> 01:01:10.920
Much of the set was destroyed in a legitimate

01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:15.380
hurricane. Going back to our witchcraft theme,

01:01:15.500 --> 01:01:21.199
it's at this point that with Brando and his tragedy,

01:01:21.539 --> 01:01:25.380
the warlock that Richard Stanley was friends

01:01:25.380 --> 01:01:28.300
with, got into some sort of trouble in England.

01:01:29.460 --> 01:01:32.099
Richard Stanley's mom's house was struck by lightning

01:01:32.099 --> 01:01:34.820
multiple times, apparently. There was a sighting

01:01:34.820 --> 01:01:38.380
of a hyena in Ireland. I'm paraphrasing, but

01:01:38.380 --> 01:01:41.639
there's a lot of things that happened that seemingly

01:01:41.639 --> 01:01:46.340
unraveled the magic that was helping Richard

01:01:46.340 --> 01:01:49.380
Stanley, if you buy into all that stuff. So it

01:01:49.380 --> 01:01:53.760
just paints Stanley as just a character. I'm

01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:56.420
not saying that he's, you know. you know, an

01:01:56.420 --> 01:02:01.320
oddball in any disparaging way. Just he had reasons

01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:05.460
for people to to question him, including taking

01:02:05.460 --> 01:02:08.260
four lumps of sugar in his coffee. That was an

01:02:08.260 --> 01:02:10.300
anecdote from one of the new line producers.

01:02:10.900 --> 01:02:13.079
That didn't seem that weird to me, but he did

01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:16.420
make a big point of that. Yeah, I know. OK, OK.

01:02:16.579 --> 01:02:19.760
So with all these delays and the tensions, actor

01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:23.780
Rob Morrow. Couldn't handle it, and I don't blame

01:02:23.780 --> 01:02:25.719
him. He called New Line president Robert Shea

01:02:25.719 --> 01:02:28.980
and demanded to be let go from the role, saying,

01:02:29.159 --> 01:02:32.119
I need to be released from my contract. He couldn't

01:02:32.119 --> 01:02:35.199
stand the problematic shoot any longer, and he

01:02:35.199 --> 01:02:37.920
was granted that release from his contract. So

01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:43.920
again, they had to recast the part. Yeah, and

01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:46.300
with all of these issues piling up, New Line

01:02:46.300 --> 01:02:50.219
Cinema abruptly fired Richard Stanley via fax.

01:02:50.989 --> 01:02:55.309
So he had angrily shredded up a bunch of his

01:02:55.309 --> 01:02:57.710
documents after that, just hoping that that would

01:02:57.710 --> 01:02:59.929
kind of be a way that New Line would have to

01:02:59.929 --> 01:03:02.670
rehire him, since he'd done all this preparatory

01:03:02.670 --> 01:03:06.670
work for it already. They brought him to the

01:03:06.670 --> 01:03:09.409
airport to try to send him back to Hollywood,

01:03:09.449 --> 01:03:12.449
but he vanished and no one knew where he was

01:03:12.449 --> 01:03:17.670
for a while after that. So New Line offered him

01:03:17.670 --> 01:03:21.260
his full fee. They offered to pay him his full

01:03:21.260 --> 01:03:23.980
fee for the work, even though he didn't complete

01:03:23.980 --> 01:03:26.059
it and only shot, I think, for about a week,

01:03:26.139 --> 01:03:28.860
provided that he stayed quiet about the firing

01:03:28.860 --> 01:03:31.480
and the circumstances surrounding it and didn't

01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:35.679
criticize the production publicly. But after

01:03:35.679 --> 01:03:37.800
he disappeared, of course, New Line was worried

01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:42.500
that he would sabotage the film, and there's

01:03:42.500 --> 01:03:45.000
kind of a funny story about that that I'm sure

01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:50.150
we'll get into later. But essentially what happened

01:03:50.150 --> 01:03:54.010
is he, at least for a little while, went to a

01:03:54.010 --> 01:03:57.710
secluded retreat to recover and just try to,

01:03:57.730 --> 01:03:59.610
I guess, kind of get his mind right after being

01:03:59.610 --> 01:04:02.849
kicked off of this dream project. And I guess

01:04:02.849 --> 01:04:06.550
didn't leave his room for weeks. So of course,

01:04:06.590 --> 01:04:08.250
you know, a lot of people who were working on

01:04:08.250 --> 01:04:11.349
the movie were sympathetic to him, were interested

01:04:11.349 --> 01:04:14.349
in his vision. And so they were angry when he

01:04:14.349 --> 01:04:18.909
was fired for Rusevok. was particularly mad about

01:04:18.909 --> 01:04:22.670
it. She was arguing with the executives on the

01:04:22.670 --> 01:04:27.130
set. She had someone actually drive her like

01:04:27.130 --> 01:04:29.730
all the way across Australia to the other side

01:04:29.730 --> 01:04:32.269
of Australia because she was planning to fly

01:04:32.269 --> 01:04:34.570
back and she was telling her agent that she,

01:04:34.650 --> 01:04:37.730
you know, just did not want to do this anymore

01:04:37.730 --> 01:04:41.590
if Stanley was not involved. But they told her

01:04:41.590 --> 01:04:44.389
that her career would be ruined if she broke

01:04:44.389 --> 01:04:47.170
her contract. And that she'd, you know, basically

01:04:47.170 --> 01:04:50.449
never work in Hollywood again. So, you know,

01:04:50.449 --> 01:04:52.349
against her wishes, she wound up returning to

01:04:52.349 --> 01:04:55.429
the set. She's a very compelling person in that

01:04:55.429 --> 01:04:57.630
Lost Soul documentary, I think. It's kind of

01:04:57.630 --> 01:05:00.369
like touching in a way to see her stand up for

01:05:00.369 --> 01:05:01.969
Richard Stanley. They kind of seem to have like

01:05:01.969 --> 01:05:04.670
a shared vision for the movie. So, yeah, it's

01:05:04.670 --> 01:05:08.130
obviously unfortunate. But Richard Stanley's

01:05:08.130 --> 01:05:10.389
gone. He was fired. So the New Line Cinema brought

01:05:10.389 --> 01:05:12.289
in John Frankenheimer, like we mentioned before,

01:05:12.469 --> 01:05:15.619
to act as replacement director. Frankenheimer

01:05:15.619 --> 01:05:17.760
was very eager to work with Marlon Brando, as

01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:19.440
was pretty much everybody else on this movie,

01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:22.800
even though he had kind of had his, you know,

01:05:22.800 --> 01:05:25.380
controversies, I guess, over the last 10 or 15

01:05:25.380 --> 01:05:27.739
years. He was kind of already a notorious, like,

01:05:27.820 --> 01:05:30.280
eccentric, I guess you would say. Still, everybody

01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:32.159
wanted to work with him, so Frankenheimer came

01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:35.519
on board. He did receive a huge salary and arranged

01:05:35.519 --> 01:05:37.539
a three -picture deal from New Line Cinema for

01:05:37.539 --> 01:05:40.239
his services. Probably he knew that this was

01:05:40.239 --> 01:05:42.539
not going to be a very easy job, so he tried

01:05:42.539 --> 01:05:45.199
to work it to his advantage, which he was pretty

01:05:45.199 --> 01:05:48.340
much able to do. You know, again, Frankenheimer

01:05:48.340 --> 01:05:50.820
was kind of a relic of the kind of classical

01:05:50.820 --> 01:05:53.619
Hollywood moving into new Hollywood era. So he

01:05:53.619 --> 01:05:55.519
was one of those gruff, tyrannical directors

01:05:55.519 --> 01:05:57.679
who would bark out orders, kind of act as like

01:05:57.679 --> 01:06:00.539
a military commander on set. That could not have

01:06:00.539 --> 01:06:02.980
been further away from Richard Stanley, but it

01:06:02.980 --> 01:06:06.099
was equally alienating to much of the cast and

01:06:06.099 --> 01:06:08.880
crew of the film. Frankenheimer also brought

01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:11.760
in David Thewlis to replace Rob Morrow in the

01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:14.559
lead role. Thewlis is kind of interesting. I

01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:16.440
don't think he really fits this movie very well,

01:06:16.519 --> 01:06:18.519
and he seems to be in a different movie altogether,

01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:21.099
but it's kind of interesting to watch that sometimes.

01:06:21.719 --> 01:06:23.800
And he has very fun, interesting things to say

01:06:23.800 --> 01:06:25.179
about the movie as well, which we'll probably

01:06:25.179 --> 01:06:27.659
talk about a little bit later. Production was

01:06:27.659 --> 01:06:29.820
halted for a week and a half as Frankenheimer

01:06:29.820 --> 01:06:32.559
was brought on board, and these changes and script

01:06:32.559 --> 01:06:36.110
rewrites were made. There was a moment in the

01:06:36.110 --> 01:06:40.070
movie, in the film, Thouless and Kilmer, I don't

01:06:40.070 --> 01:06:42.150
know, they're just kind of standing around. Nothing's

01:06:42.150 --> 01:06:44.530
really happening in the shot. But then the camera

01:06:44.530 --> 01:06:47.909
cuts to David Thouless, and he's literally facepalming.

01:06:48.030 --> 01:06:51.389
And I guarantee you he's not acting in that moment.

01:06:51.550 --> 01:06:56.349
And I laughed out loud so hard. Yeah. Yeah, I

01:06:56.349 --> 01:06:58.869
did feel bad for him watching this movie because

01:06:58.869 --> 01:07:03.619
he's like of the. The main male actors, at least

01:07:03.619 --> 01:07:06.460
he's like the one who is like trying to like

01:07:06.460 --> 01:07:11.400
honor the material. But by the end of the movie,

01:07:11.559 --> 01:07:16.019
I know it's not shot sequentially, but his energy

01:07:16.019 --> 01:07:20.880
is is 100 percent. Just get me out of this picture.

01:07:21.199 --> 01:07:24.639
Like, where's my paycheck? Yeah. Out of here.

01:07:25.340 --> 01:07:27.900
Yeah. And I do agree with Matt, too, that he

01:07:27.900 --> 01:07:31.300
is kind of miscast in this role. You know, he's

01:07:31.300 --> 01:07:35.380
like his persona, I guess, to the extent that

01:07:35.380 --> 01:07:36.920
you could say there's a David Thewlis persona

01:07:36.920 --> 01:07:40.539
is more that he's, you know, you expect him to

01:07:40.539 --> 01:07:43.239
play more like a neurotic character or like,

01:07:43.239 --> 01:07:45.900
like kind of a sleazy character. And I think

01:07:45.900 --> 01:07:47.599
for this role, you kind of need someone who's

01:07:47.599 --> 01:07:51.059
like, you know, a normal guy, like a normal square

01:07:51.059 --> 01:07:54.659
jawed guy who's like horrified by all the weirdness

01:07:54.659 --> 01:07:58.469
around him. Like I said, he at least, unlike

01:07:58.469 --> 01:08:01.170
the other major male actors in the movie, seems

01:08:01.170 --> 01:08:04.130
to be trying to give a good performance. Yeah.

01:08:04.210 --> 01:08:09.190
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So same story, same

01:08:09.190 --> 01:08:12.250
characters, as Matt has titled this section.

01:08:13.210 --> 01:08:15.969
Shooting soon resumed, but it didn't go any better

01:08:15.969 --> 01:08:18.489
with Frankenheimer at the helm. New script pages

01:08:18.489 --> 01:08:20.590
were turned in only a few days before they were

01:08:20.590 --> 01:08:23.109
shot, and the actors hated the rewrites and often

01:08:23.109 --> 01:08:26.470
improvised, making up their own characters. Brando

01:08:26.470 --> 01:08:28.489
did this a lot, and I think some of the most

01:08:28.489 --> 01:08:32.029
memorable, maybe most interesting parts of this

01:08:32.029 --> 01:08:36.710
movie is just Brando winging it. And I kind of

01:08:36.710 --> 01:08:41.470
love it, actually. But behind the scenes, Brando

01:08:41.470 --> 01:08:44.770
and Kilmer just hated each other. They both behaved

01:08:44.770 --> 01:08:47.550
erratically. Brando would spend hours in his

01:08:47.550 --> 01:08:49.449
air -conditioned trailer as the cast would wait

01:08:49.449 --> 01:08:52.729
for shooting to commence. The extras were wearing

01:08:52.729 --> 01:08:55.369
full heavy makeup and costumes, and they were

01:08:55.369 --> 01:08:58.430
sweltering in the tropical heat. So not cool

01:08:58.430 --> 01:09:01.430
that Brando was acting that way to his cast.

01:09:02.050 --> 01:09:05.670
But on one occasion, Kilmer and Brando both waited

01:09:05.670 --> 01:09:07.810
in their trailers, refusing to come out before

01:09:07.810 --> 01:09:10.810
the other one did. Again, the cast and crew waited

01:09:10.810 --> 01:09:14.869
for hours as this standoff took place. Some pretty

01:09:14.869 --> 01:09:18.090
good quotes attributed to this feud. Brando said

01:09:18.090 --> 01:09:21.970
to Kilmer, Your problem is you confuse the size

01:09:21.970 --> 01:09:24.029
of your paycheck with the size of your talent.

01:09:25.130 --> 01:09:28.489
Kilmer said something about, you know, he asked

01:09:28.489 --> 01:09:31.090
Brando once, like, did you see the reef? And

01:09:31.090 --> 01:09:34.729
Brando said, see the reef. I own a reef. I have

01:09:34.729 --> 01:09:38.670
reefs coming out of my ass. I love that quote.

01:09:38.710 --> 01:09:40.350
I forgot to put it on here. I'm so glad you said

01:09:40.350 --> 01:09:44.970
that. More quotes dumping on Val Kilmer. Frankenheimer

01:09:44.970 --> 01:09:47.680
later said. I don't like Val Kilmer, I don't

01:09:47.680 --> 01:09:49.880
like his work ethic, and I don't want to be associated

01:09:49.880 --> 01:09:52.859
with him ever again. After Kilmer shot his last

01:09:52.859 --> 01:09:55.159
scene, Frankenheimer reportedly said, now get

01:09:55.159 --> 01:09:59.039
that bastard off my set. And Frankenheimer also

01:09:59.039 --> 01:10:01.699
said, even if I directed a movie about Val Kilmer,

01:10:01.819 --> 01:10:06.020
I would not cast him. I love that quote. There's

01:10:06.020 --> 01:10:10.479
also a story Feruza Balk recounts. She went up

01:10:10.479 --> 01:10:12.220
to Brando one day because they have a scene and

01:10:12.220 --> 01:10:15.880
she wanted to talk about their characters. good

01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:19.199
working actors should do. And I'm going to paraphrase,

01:10:19.199 --> 01:10:21.300
but Brando literally said, no, I'm not going

01:10:21.300 --> 01:10:24.460
to do that. Why? Like, who cares? You're getting

01:10:24.460 --> 01:10:27.739
paid. I'm getting paid. You're beautiful. Like,

01:10:27.779 --> 01:10:30.600
let's just, let's just, who cares? Let's just

01:10:30.600 --> 01:10:36.739
make it up. Like just the irony of like, again,

01:10:36.760 --> 01:10:39.680
arguably the greatest in his prime on the waterfront

01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:43.000
street car, even the godfather later in his career.

01:10:43.640 --> 01:10:46.100
And he just doesn't give two craps at this point

01:10:46.100 --> 01:10:48.579
in his life. And I don't know how I feel about

01:10:48.579 --> 01:10:55.979
that. Yeah, he gave so little crap about any

01:10:55.979 --> 01:10:57.500
of it, I guess, that he refused to learn his

01:10:57.500 --> 01:11:01.079
lines, which I guess was becoming a habit for

01:11:01.079 --> 01:11:03.539
him from his last few movies prior to this as

01:11:03.539 --> 01:11:06.159
well. So they actually gave him like a small

01:11:06.159 --> 01:11:09.260
radio receiver where they could like feed the

01:11:09.260 --> 01:11:12.010
lines to him. And then he would just recite them

01:11:12.010 --> 01:11:14.170
on camera. And I, they mentioned in the documentary

01:11:14.170 --> 01:11:17.390
that there were like a few incidents where his

01:11:17.390 --> 01:11:20.130
radio receiver would pick up like something from

01:11:20.130 --> 01:11:22.949
like CB radios. And he would actually say something

01:11:22.949 --> 01:11:25.189
that like a trucker said that would be, you know,

01:11:25.189 --> 01:11:30.050
in the context of even less crazy performance.

01:11:31.409 --> 01:11:34.109
And sometimes he even just like ignored whatever

01:11:34.109 --> 01:11:36.069
he was supposed to say and just made something

01:11:36.069 --> 01:11:42.979
up. I'm sure his coworkers loved. God. so meanwhile

01:11:42.979 --> 01:11:45.340
and this was kind of what i was alluding to earlier

01:11:45.340 --> 01:11:48.340
richard stanley was still recuperating nearby

01:11:48.340 --> 01:11:52.140
and i think he said he was at a bar or something

01:11:52.140 --> 01:11:54.420
and he happened to run into some of the people

01:11:54.420 --> 01:11:58.460
who were working in the movie and who were camping

01:11:58.460 --> 01:12:02.319
in the area as you know they were working as

01:12:02.319 --> 01:12:06.640
extras and so he actually got back onto the set

01:12:07.079 --> 01:12:11.800
as an extra with a dog man costume. There was

01:12:11.800 --> 01:12:13.939
a story in the documentary about how, you know,

01:12:13.939 --> 01:12:16.079
they would take their breaks for lunch or whatever,

01:12:16.239 --> 01:12:18.899
or probably to wait for Marlon Brando to decide

01:12:18.899 --> 01:12:21.539
to come out of his trailer. And, you know, it

01:12:21.539 --> 01:12:23.859
would be like sweltering heat. So everybody else

01:12:23.859 --> 01:12:26.979
would be taking off their, their helmets. And

01:12:26.979 --> 01:12:29.300
that, that first AD who Vincent had mentioned,

01:12:29.380 --> 01:12:31.699
I think is the one who said like, he noticed

01:12:31.699 --> 01:12:34.560
this guy with the dog costume on who just like

01:12:34.560 --> 01:12:37.119
wasn't taking that off even though they're in

01:12:37.119 --> 01:12:41.199
this you know 110 degree heat or whatever because

01:12:41.199 --> 01:12:43.840
obviously he didn't want to reveal his identity

01:12:43.840 --> 01:12:46.359
and that he was you know infiltrating the set

01:12:46.359 --> 01:12:51.460
yeah so that's hilarious like who's the who's

01:12:51.460 --> 01:12:56.359
the psycho who keeps his dog mascot And apparently

01:12:56.359 --> 01:12:59.140
in his autobiography, Val Kilmer claims that

01:12:59.140 --> 01:13:03.039
he could hear Richard Stanley yelling somewhere

01:13:03.039 --> 01:13:05.079
in the crowd of extras, and he recognized the

01:13:05.079 --> 01:13:07.640
voice, but because there's so many people running

01:13:07.640 --> 01:13:10.140
around in all these weird animal outfits, he

01:13:10.140 --> 01:13:13.000
could never determine who was Richard Stanley.

01:13:14.479 --> 01:13:18.560
And then finally, at the end of filming, when

01:13:18.560 --> 01:13:20.939
the wrap party came up, Richard Stanley showed

01:13:20.939 --> 01:13:25.210
up. And apparently Val Kilmer did apologize at

01:13:25.210 --> 01:13:28.050
that time for behaving so horribly and contributing

01:13:28.050 --> 01:13:30.850
to getting Richard Stanley fired from the production.

01:13:31.390 --> 01:13:34.550
So a little bit of a happy ending there, I guess.

01:13:53.000 --> 01:13:58.520
maling very sophisticated beast folk who who

01:13:58.520 --> 01:14:03.520
hangs out with dr moreau but hoffschneider says

01:14:03.520 --> 01:14:06.619
that brando was very gracious on set on his first

01:14:06.619 --> 01:14:08.939
day brando took time to shake everyone's hand

01:14:08.939 --> 01:14:12.140
hoof and claw because everyone was in costume

01:14:12.140 --> 01:14:15.520
and i'm like that's that's something you know

01:14:15.520 --> 01:14:19.159
maybe he was you know maybe he was unprofessional

01:14:19.159 --> 01:14:22.350
in a lot of ways but I don't know, still gracious

01:14:22.350 --> 01:14:25.989
in some other ways. Yeah, I think there's a quote

01:14:25.989 --> 01:14:28.130
where I think it might have been Hofschneider

01:14:28.130 --> 01:14:31.050
who says that Brando was at least kind of playful

01:14:31.050 --> 01:14:32.949
about the fact that he did not care about this

01:14:32.949 --> 01:14:35.229
movie or the performance at all. Whereas Kilmer

01:14:35.229 --> 01:14:37.489
was like hateful in the ways that he like did

01:14:37.489 --> 01:14:39.050
not care about this movie or the performance.

01:14:39.350 --> 01:14:43.729
And I think, yeah. Yeah, I think it's so fascinating

01:14:43.729 --> 01:14:47.449
to me. Like you see those energies to me translate

01:14:47.449 --> 01:14:50.840
in the performances. I see that Brando doesn't

01:14:50.840 --> 01:14:53.159
care, but he's having fun. I see that Kilmer

01:14:53.159 --> 01:14:58.239
doesn't care. He's really salty about it. Yeah,

01:14:58.319 --> 01:15:02.000
especially in the part toward the end after Moreau

01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:05.300
has died and the Kilmer character is kind of

01:15:05.300 --> 01:15:09.000
trying to take his place as the god of this island

01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:11.560
or whatever, and he's doing his Marlon Brando

01:15:11.560 --> 01:15:14.300
impersonation while he's sitting on that throne.

01:15:14.399 --> 01:15:17.529
It did seem really... It seemed like genuinely

01:15:17.529 --> 01:15:21.829
mean -spirited, which could have worked for the

01:15:21.829 --> 01:15:24.689
performance, except it's also extremely hammy

01:15:24.689 --> 01:15:28.550
and just doesn't actually work. But yeah, it

01:15:28.550 --> 01:15:31.569
seemed like there was some genuine hatred there.

01:15:32.149 --> 01:15:35.989
Yeah. I don't know. It just makes me think about

01:15:35.989 --> 01:15:39.550
acting as like, I don't know. It's just like

01:15:39.550 --> 01:15:43.010
a transcendent, almost like you can't define

01:15:43.010 --> 01:15:46.180
it. But people have energies, and they bring

01:15:46.180 --> 01:15:49.739
that to the screen. If you're feeling salty and

01:15:49.739 --> 01:15:54.319
hateful, well, I guess it comes out. Yeah, and

01:15:54.319 --> 01:15:56.159
like Frank said, it kind of works for the character,

01:15:56.260 --> 01:15:58.579
but it goes beyond the character, too. I feel

01:15:58.579 --> 01:16:00.739
like it becomes pretty obvious that Kilmer's

01:16:00.739 --> 01:16:03.060
not playing a role. That's just what he was at

01:16:03.060 --> 01:16:06.000
that time of his life, or at least on set for

01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:12.750
this movie. It's fun to watch Brando's... lunacy,

01:16:12.810 --> 01:16:15.010
basically, and like the crazy ideas that he comes

01:16:15.010 --> 01:16:18.270
up with. One really bizarre story that I forgot

01:16:18.270 --> 01:16:19.729
to put in the notes, I'm sorry, there's just

01:16:19.729 --> 01:16:22.350
so much to this backstory. But it was Brando

01:16:22.350 --> 01:16:25.750
who insisted that Nelson de la Roja, who is a

01:16:25.750 --> 01:16:28.670
dwarf who is about two feet tall, he was cast

01:16:28.670 --> 01:16:31.069
in the film, he was initially kind of just supposed

01:16:31.069 --> 01:16:35.609
to be like, you know, like, you know, a strange

01:16:35.609 --> 01:16:38.670
looking background extra, essentially. But Brando

01:16:38.670 --> 01:16:41.500
was like this, this human person is fascinating.

01:16:41.979 --> 01:16:43.779
Everybody's going to be fascinated by this figure.

01:16:43.939 --> 01:16:47.000
I want him next to me at all times. And that's

01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:50.140
exactly what happened. This dwarf character played

01:16:50.140 --> 01:16:52.880
by Nelson de la Roja essentially becomes Dr.

01:16:53.159 --> 01:16:55.319
Moreau's mini -me, and Mike Myers has admitted

01:16:55.319 --> 01:16:57.899
that that's where he got the idea from. And in

01:16:57.899 --> 01:17:00.920
Austin Powers, it's a parody of these two characters

01:17:00.920 --> 01:17:03.800
in The Island of Dr. Moreau. And it's bizarre

01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:06.380
because, like, those images with, like, the two

01:17:06.380 --> 01:17:09.000
of them together are really striking. They look

01:17:09.000 --> 01:17:11.979
amazing. Like, the scene, Frank kind of made

01:17:11.979 --> 01:17:14.239
a joke about this earlier, but the scene where

01:17:14.239 --> 01:17:17.579
they're both playing the piano and Nelson de

01:17:17.579 --> 01:17:20.020
la Roja character is, like, on a tiny grand piano

01:17:20.020 --> 01:17:22.739
that's, like, above Brando's piano is hilarious.

01:17:22.939 --> 01:17:25.020
That's my favorite part of the movie. And that

01:17:25.020 --> 01:17:29.739
was Brando's idea. Yeah. Amazing. And like, it

01:17:29.739 --> 01:17:31.739
still might not be good in those moments, but

01:17:31.739 --> 01:17:33.600
it's definitely very entertaining and just like

01:17:33.600 --> 01:17:36.180
off the walls or off the wall. And then like,

01:17:36.300 --> 01:17:38.140
you know, once Brando leaves the movie, I think

01:17:38.140 --> 01:17:40.800
you can tell that it kind of, the energy changes

01:17:40.800 --> 01:17:42.880
a little bit. It just gets kind of draggy, I

01:17:42.880 --> 01:17:46.140
think, after that point. Yeah. I feel like it

01:17:46.140 --> 01:17:49.180
gets reliant on just a lot of set pieces and

01:17:49.180 --> 01:17:53.260
like, let's just crank the action and wrap up

01:17:53.260 --> 01:17:57.630
this movie as quickly as we can. Yeah. But not

01:17:57.630 --> 01:18:03.029
quickly enough, I would say. No. Well, you know,

01:18:03.050 --> 01:18:06.109
not surprisingly after all that, this movie was

01:18:06.109 --> 01:18:08.770
a notorious bomb when it came out in August 1996.

01:18:09.489 --> 01:18:12.710
It grossed only $49 million worldwide against

01:18:12.710 --> 01:18:15.350
a $40 million budget. And that does not include

01:18:15.350 --> 01:18:17.229
all the marketing and distribution expenses.

01:18:17.329 --> 01:18:19.829
So in the long run, this movie lost money for

01:18:19.829 --> 01:18:22.489
New Line Cinema. Do either of you guys want to

01:18:22.489 --> 01:18:25.069
talk about the notoriously negative reception

01:18:25.069 --> 01:18:28.340
it received? Yeah, you know, Roger Ebert said

01:18:28.340 --> 01:18:31.699
it was likely Marlon Brando's worst film, which

01:18:31.699 --> 01:18:35.220
is probably true. Nothing else is coming to mind

01:18:35.220 --> 01:18:36.899
immediately for that when I think about his other

01:18:36.899 --> 01:18:39.899
stuff. He got nominated for six Razzie Awards

01:18:39.899 --> 01:18:43.960
with Brando winning or losing, depending on how

01:18:43.960 --> 01:18:48.020
you look at it, for worst supporting actor. Yeah,

01:18:48.020 --> 01:18:50.479
you know, it's funny, too, because I remember

01:18:50.479 --> 01:18:53.140
I was thinking about it, you know, at the time

01:18:53.140 --> 01:18:56.670
in 1996 when I was 12. I would have been reading

01:18:56.670 --> 01:18:58.970
entertainment weekly. I know. And I think my

01:18:58.970 --> 01:19:03.050
mom had a subscription to it, which kind of like

01:19:03.050 --> 01:19:05.590
sort of unofficially became my subscription to

01:19:05.590 --> 01:19:08.970
it. We're just reading it. But so I went back

01:19:08.970 --> 01:19:11.909
and actually looked at their review of it. They

01:19:11.909 --> 01:19:14.229
give it a C plus, which I think is a pretty,

01:19:14.289 --> 01:19:18.250
you know, positive can compared to the reception

01:19:18.250 --> 01:19:20.869
that I got elsewhere. But, but I thought that

01:19:20.869 --> 01:19:22.770
was kind of, kind of interesting to go back and

01:19:22.770 --> 01:19:26.350
look at again. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I don't

01:19:26.350 --> 01:19:28.890
know that it ever got higher than a C plus from

01:19:28.890 --> 01:19:34.489
anybody. I feel like maybe like there have been

01:19:34.489 --> 01:19:36.890
some retrospective reviews that are like in the

01:19:36.890 --> 01:19:39.369
so bad, it's good, like cult classic sort of

01:19:39.369 --> 01:19:41.829
territory. But I feel like even recent reviews

01:19:41.829 --> 01:19:44.310
are like, this just does not work. Like it kind

01:19:44.310 --> 01:19:46.770
of earns its reputation as a fiasco, you know,

01:19:46.770 --> 01:19:49.229
but as we'll probably talk about in a little

01:19:49.229 --> 01:19:52.630
bit, there are some, maybe some redeeming aspects

01:19:52.630 --> 01:19:56.069
to it, you know? Or some fun aspects, anyway.

01:19:56.810 --> 01:19:59.090
Redeeming is a very kind word. But yeah, David

01:19:59.090 --> 01:20:02.090
Thewlis, he said that he wants to give an exhaustive

01:20:02.090 --> 01:20:03.689
account of the making of this movie. He would

01:20:03.689 --> 01:20:06.409
love to tell that story. But he's also said that

01:20:06.409 --> 01:20:08.529
if he did that, then he would never work in Hollywood

01:20:08.529 --> 01:20:10.550
again. I think he said that quote a long time

01:20:10.550 --> 01:20:12.689
ago. It's probably not true anymore, but I think

01:20:12.689 --> 01:20:14.550
it's kind of funny. He skipped the premiere of

01:20:14.550 --> 01:20:16.170
the movie, still has never seen the finished

01:20:16.170 --> 01:20:18.649
film. There's another quote that I did not put

01:20:18.649 --> 01:20:22.250
on the notes, but Marlon Brando compared the...

01:20:22.829 --> 01:20:25.130
experience of filming the movie to david thules

01:20:25.130 --> 01:20:27.750
when they were like just talking on set one day

01:20:27.750 --> 01:20:30.069
marlon brando compared it to doing a crossword

01:20:30.069 --> 01:20:33.250
puzzle while falling down an elevator shaft great

01:20:33.250 --> 01:20:37.409
quote i love that yeah there are some themes

01:20:37.409 --> 01:20:39.449
in this movie even if they're not very successfully

01:20:39.449 --> 01:20:42.029
delivered well there's the are humans the real

01:20:42.029 --> 01:20:46.210
monsters theme which uh as somebody noted here

01:20:46.210 --> 01:20:49.810
is is basically a theme of just about every monster

01:20:49.810 --> 01:20:55.600
movie ever made But yeah, you've got the Moreau

01:20:55.600 --> 01:21:00.960
character who's kind of a zany echo of Captain

01:21:00.960 --> 01:21:04.239
Kurtz from Heart of Darkness. Just kind of a

01:21:04.239 --> 01:21:08.779
guy playing God in a remote locale that kind

01:21:08.779 --> 01:21:11.680
of brings him back to the origins of humanity.

01:21:12.399 --> 01:21:15.039
There's that montage late in the movie that I

01:21:15.039 --> 01:21:17.720
mentioned earlier that tries to reaffirm that

01:21:17.720 --> 01:21:20.350
theme by showing some real... world footage of

01:21:20.350 --> 01:21:23.010
humans committing atrocities and violence that,

01:21:23.029 --> 01:21:26.250
you know, that kind of makes them seem more like

01:21:26.250 --> 01:21:29.590
beasts than the man -animal hybrids in the movie,

01:21:29.649 --> 01:21:33.010
perhaps. Were you guys able to identify any of

01:21:33.010 --> 01:21:36.229
that documentary footage, like what it was from?

01:21:36.350 --> 01:21:40.270
I wasn't watching it back this time, which I

01:21:40.270 --> 01:21:43.390
think... Kind of hurts that scene, actually.

01:21:43.409 --> 01:21:46.010
I think it would be better if you kind of it

01:21:46.010 --> 01:21:49.069
just is kind of like vague footage of strife

01:21:49.069 --> 01:21:51.430
and like people punching each other and stuff.

01:21:52.050 --> 01:21:58.850
Yeah. Yeah. It didn't seem up to snuff with like

01:21:58.850 --> 01:22:00.390
I could have shot that on my phone, I guess.

01:22:00.430 --> 01:22:03.649
I don't know. It just didn't seem like the same

01:22:03.649 --> 01:22:07.720
quality. Yeah. Yeah, and it's so vague that,

01:22:07.819 --> 01:22:10.140
to your point, Frank, I feel like that point

01:22:10.140 --> 01:22:11.920
doesn't really land home because it's just like,

01:22:12.060 --> 01:22:15.119
humans are terrible. And it's like, well, I think

01:22:15.119 --> 01:22:17.079
we need a little more focus and a little more

01:22:17.079 --> 01:22:19.720
pointedness to that theme. I feel like that's

01:22:19.720 --> 01:22:21.380
one of the reasons that theme doesn't land very

01:22:21.380 --> 01:22:26.579
well. In the book, H .G. Wells actually wrote

01:22:26.579 --> 01:22:30.020
the book as a satire more than anything on religion

01:22:30.020 --> 01:22:34.859
and humanity's tendency to seek an all -powerful...

01:22:35.229 --> 01:22:40.010
supreme being. And in the book, it's much more

01:22:40.010 --> 01:22:43.850
obvious in a good way. Of course, the book's

01:22:43.850 --> 01:22:46.310
always better than the movie. But in the movie,

01:22:46.510 --> 01:22:51.310
it was just a scant, almost a throwaway, the

01:22:51.310 --> 01:22:55.310
David Thewlis character or Kilmer, I don't remember

01:22:55.310 --> 01:22:59.689
who, but let me just say in the book, the Thewlis

01:22:59.689 --> 01:23:04.020
character. makes it his objective now. I must

01:23:04.020 --> 01:23:07.279
become their god to replace Moreau for my survival.

01:23:07.859 --> 01:23:10.899
Because they're starting to get out of line and

01:23:10.899 --> 01:23:14.060
they need that discipline that religion gives

01:23:14.060 --> 01:23:17.220
people. So yeah, I don't know. It's obviously

01:23:17.220 --> 01:23:20.359
better in the book. I didn't get much of that

01:23:20.359 --> 01:23:24.619
in this movie. Yeah, and I feel like if the theme

01:23:24.619 --> 01:23:28.270
is that... you know men are more monstrous than

01:23:28.270 --> 01:23:31.010
the supposed monsters or like these kind of beastly

01:23:31.010 --> 01:23:33.930
animal human hybrids i i feel like that also

01:23:33.930 --> 01:23:37.310
isn't really conveyed because you know, the society

01:23:37.310 --> 01:23:39.689
on the island does not get any better when Moreau

01:23:39.689 --> 01:23:41.750
dies. Like, it immediately descends into chaos

01:23:41.750 --> 01:23:44.970
and all these monsters, or I'll just use the

01:23:44.970 --> 01:23:46.649
word beasts because that's kind of what's used

01:23:46.649 --> 01:23:47.829
in the movie and that's what they're referred

01:23:47.829 --> 01:23:49.829
to in the credits. You know, they immediately

01:23:49.829 --> 01:23:52.550
start killing each other. The supposed, like,

01:23:52.590 --> 01:23:56.930
new god that steps up, you know, is, like, clearly

01:23:56.930 --> 01:23:58.850
is not trying to lead to, like, a harmonious

01:23:58.850 --> 01:24:01.310
society or anything like that. So I feel like

01:24:01.310 --> 01:24:04.390
the movie is not actually, it does not successfully

01:24:04.390 --> 01:24:07.119
say that, like, Men are more monstrous than the

01:24:07.119 --> 01:24:09.520
beasts because the beasts are just as bad. And

01:24:09.520 --> 01:24:11.039
that kind of leads me to believe there's like

01:24:11.039 --> 01:24:12.960
no theme whatsoever. Like it's kind of just,

01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:15.659
you know, an action climax without a purpose

01:24:15.659 --> 01:24:19.340
behind it. You know, the themes are just, I mean,

01:24:19.340 --> 01:24:22.319
Wells's story is so good that the themes are

01:24:22.319 --> 01:24:25.960
there. Yeah. But you can, but that doesn't excuse

01:24:25.960 --> 01:24:29.579
the lack of diving into them. Yeah. No, it's

01:24:29.579 --> 01:24:33.060
just like, okay, well, thank you HG Wells for

01:24:33.060 --> 01:24:38.220
writing a great book. yeah like it just goes

01:24:38.220 --> 01:24:42.600
back to him and yeah right yeah i i mean i wish

01:24:42.600 --> 01:24:45.460
i knew what the script revision process was like

01:24:45.460 --> 01:24:47.859
because how much did they actually try to take

01:24:47.859 --> 01:24:49.579
from the wells novel and how much was it just

01:24:49.579 --> 01:24:52.060
like let's end this movie like let's just get

01:24:52.060 --> 01:24:54.000
it over with you know like yeah i wish we kind

01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:55.600
of had some more insight into that process which

01:24:55.600 --> 01:24:58.479
probably was fascinating but depressing is my

01:24:58.479 --> 01:25:02.159
assumption i guess i'll just briefly say that

01:25:02.159 --> 01:25:04.800
like it's unfortunate again going back to that

01:25:05.470 --> 01:25:08.050
ostensible theme that like men are the real monsters.

01:25:08.529 --> 01:25:10.470
You know, I feel like the actual villain at the

01:25:10.470 --> 01:25:12.949
end of the movie is this character of Aza Zello,

01:25:13.149 --> 01:25:15.569
who's one of Dr. Moreau's sons. So one of these

01:25:15.569 --> 01:25:18.569
beastly hybrids. And it's just really unfortunate,

01:25:18.729 --> 01:25:20.829
I think, that this character is like visually

01:25:20.829 --> 01:25:23.970
the darkest one of all of them. He has the darkest

01:25:23.970 --> 01:25:26.550
skin and like he even has dreadlocks. And I feel

01:25:26.550 --> 01:25:29.090
like he's kind of coded to be a black character.

01:25:29.170 --> 01:25:32.359
And he kind of becomes the villainous. monster

01:25:32.359 --> 01:25:36.100
at the end. But then conversely, the most cultured

01:25:36.100 --> 01:25:39.220
of Dr. Moreau's kids are the Feruzabal character,

01:25:39.600 --> 01:25:41.960
Aissa, who's kind of like this cat woman. And

01:25:41.960 --> 01:25:43.840
then Maling, who we talked about before, played

01:25:43.840 --> 01:25:46.600
by Marco Hofschneider, who quotes Shakespeare

01:25:46.600 --> 01:25:49.920
and like talks about political theory. And I

01:25:49.920 --> 01:25:52.539
just, it's really disturbing. Honestly, I feel

01:25:52.539 --> 01:25:55.899
like there are some maybe unintentional, but

01:25:55.899 --> 01:25:58.750
still kind of racist representations where you

01:25:58.750 --> 01:26:01.729
know, the villain ends up being like the darkest

01:26:01.729 --> 01:26:03.750
monster character, but like the lighter skin

01:26:03.750 --> 01:26:06.529
ones are the most cultured and civilized. It's

01:26:06.529 --> 01:26:08.949
a really unfortunate racial representation that

01:26:08.949 --> 01:26:11.109
unfortunately I think has been common in American

01:26:11.109 --> 01:26:13.270
movies throughout much of its history. Maybe

01:26:13.270 --> 01:26:15.430
getting a little better recently, but still a

01:26:15.430 --> 01:26:17.430
thing in the mid -90s, you know? I don't know

01:26:17.430 --> 01:26:19.050
if either of you guys picked up on that. Maybe

01:26:19.050 --> 01:26:21.750
it's, again, maybe it's unintentional, but I

01:26:21.750 --> 01:26:26.029
did not like it very much. I did not, but I think

01:26:26.029 --> 01:26:29.479
you make valid points. Yeah, same here. That

01:26:29.479 --> 01:26:32.420
didn't really occur to me watching it, but yeah,

01:26:32.560 --> 01:26:35.779
seeing it written out like that and hearing you

01:26:35.779 --> 01:26:40.359
say it, that is definitely there. Yeah. And I

01:26:40.359 --> 01:26:42.260
think also it just, again, weakens that theme

01:26:42.260 --> 01:26:44.119
of like, the men are the real monsters because

01:26:44.119 --> 01:26:46.720
the climax of the movie is not really representing

01:26:46.720 --> 01:26:51.760
that at all. So the movie fails if it's trying

01:26:51.760 --> 01:26:57.760
to deliver that theme, I think. Yeah. Is it okay

01:26:57.760 --> 01:27:01.539
if I move on? Yeah, totally. Okay. Sensationalism

01:27:01.539 --> 01:27:04.220
and exploitation. Matt, you wrote this note that

01:27:04.220 --> 01:27:07.840
I think is fair because we have the actor Nelson

01:27:07.840 --> 01:27:12.300
de la Rosa, de la Roja, who at the time was the

01:27:12.300 --> 01:27:15.760
world's shortest man. He was a celebrity in the

01:27:15.760 --> 01:27:19.739
Dominican Republic. He was on TV. He made music.

01:27:20.920 --> 01:27:23.960
But you wouldn't know that, and I don't. You

01:27:23.960 --> 01:27:26.800
know, being on this set, I think he was just

01:27:26.800 --> 01:27:31.140
viewed De La Roja as a freak of nature, for lack

01:27:31.140 --> 01:27:34.800
of a better word. You know, Marlon Brando took

01:27:34.800 --> 01:27:38.020
him under his wing, so to speak, and wanted to

01:27:38.020 --> 01:27:41.260
feature him by his side with more screen time.

01:27:41.800 --> 01:27:45.399
And on the one side, you could say, wow, that's

01:27:45.399 --> 01:27:47.779
really great. Brando's given this guy a lot of

01:27:47.779 --> 01:27:51.039
screen credit. But there's something about it

01:27:51.039 --> 01:27:54.399
that's just really kind of icky. Like Brando,

01:27:54.399 --> 01:27:57.060
because you know Brando at this time, he's an

01:27:57.060 --> 01:28:00.220
eccentric. And he probably, I don't know, I got

01:28:00.220 --> 01:28:02.060
the sense that he viewed De La Roja as more of

01:28:02.060 --> 01:28:07.060
a toy than a human being. So I did get that vibe

01:28:07.060 --> 01:28:12.279
too with Nelson De La Roja's portrayal in this

01:28:12.279 --> 01:28:15.659
film. Yeah, and I think in the Lost Soul documentary,

01:28:15.779 --> 01:28:18.079
some of the crew members were, you know, when

01:28:18.079 --> 01:28:20.079
Marlon Brando was like, oh, this person needs

01:28:20.079 --> 01:28:22.000
to be in like every shot of the movie. And they

01:28:22.000 --> 01:28:24.060
were like, well, he doesn't speak English. Like,

01:28:24.060 --> 01:28:26.340
he's not an actor. Like, you know, I just don't

01:28:26.340 --> 01:28:28.579
think we can do that. And also the character,

01:28:28.800 --> 01:28:32.000
which who does have a name, I think Mahai is

01:28:32.000 --> 01:28:34.039
the character's name, Majai, something like that.

01:28:34.380 --> 01:28:37.640
But anyway, this character took... numerous scenes

01:28:37.640 --> 01:28:40.100
away from the maling character like maling was

01:28:40.100 --> 01:28:41.840
supposed to be a pretty major supporting character

01:28:41.840 --> 01:28:44.720
in the movie and that's not how it wound up because

01:28:44.720 --> 01:28:47.579
then marlon brando wanted mahai or nelson de

01:28:47.579 --> 01:28:50.720
la roja to be to take you know maling's place

01:28:50.720 --> 01:28:54.039
in all those scenes so but you know marlon when

01:28:54.039 --> 01:28:55.859
marlon brando was told like oh he's not an actor

01:28:55.859 --> 01:28:57.239
he doesn't speak english brando was just like

01:28:57.239 --> 01:28:58.899
oh it's fine he doesn't need to he doesn't need

01:28:58.899 --> 01:29:00.739
any dialogue he just needs to be there basically

01:29:00.739 --> 01:29:04.239
yeah as a prop yeah you know is dehumanizing

01:29:04.239 --> 01:29:08.239
right I am a little, yeah, like it's certainly

01:29:08.239 --> 01:29:10.960
unfortunate. And also I think most of the scenes

01:29:10.960 --> 01:29:14.380
with Moreau and Mahai next to each other are

01:29:14.380 --> 01:29:16.539
extremely entertaining. And like the images are

01:29:16.539 --> 01:29:18.399
extremely striking. So I'm a little conflicted

01:29:18.399 --> 01:29:20.699
to say this, but it's not great, you know? No,

01:29:20.779 --> 01:29:23.399
I agree. I mean, again, what Brando's doing,

01:29:23.420 --> 01:29:27.119
I think is what draws me to this movie for better

01:29:27.119 --> 01:29:30.390
or for worse. Yeah. I guess just real briefly,

01:29:30.409 --> 01:29:32.449
I'll say that I think the only scene in the movie

01:29:32.449 --> 01:29:34.430
that actually is intentionally good that works

01:29:34.430 --> 01:29:36.630
the way that it's supposed to is when Hyena Swine,

01:29:36.630 --> 01:29:38.750
who's one of the Beast characters, and some of

01:29:38.750 --> 01:29:42.350
the other... go into Moreau's compound basically

01:29:42.350 --> 01:29:44.630
to kill him. And they basically ask him, like,

01:29:44.729 --> 01:29:47.109
what are we? Like, what are you? Are you our

01:29:47.109 --> 01:29:49.390
father? Are you our God? Please explain our existence.

01:29:49.829 --> 01:29:52.109
And Moreau is not able to do that. And then they

01:29:52.109 --> 01:29:54.369
kill him immediately afterwards. Like, you know,

01:29:54.409 --> 01:29:56.770
I think maybe that's the only scene in the movie

01:29:56.770 --> 01:29:59.590
that works as it is intended to. And it works

01:29:59.590 --> 01:30:01.949
fairly well, I think. I like that you brought

01:30:01.949 --> 01:30:06.229
up that scene. I might add a touch of camp for

01:30:06.229 --> 01:30:10.340
me when they rip off Marlon Brando's arm. which

01:30:10.340 --> 01:30:14.239
was such a shocking moment of violence of like,

01:30:14.300 --> 01:30:18.939
you could see it. I said to Ellen, I wish they

01:30:18.939 --> 01:30:20.939
had just ripped his head off. I don't know. Like

01:30:20.939 --> 01:30:23.079
why? I wish they had just gone the full Monty

01:30:23.079 --> 01:30:26.319
and just like totally eviscerated Marlon Brando

01:30:26.319 --> 01:30:31.680
in front of us. It would not have been out of

01:30:31.680 --> 01:30:33.460
place in this movie. Like nothing seems like

01:30:33.460 --> 01:30:36.479
it would be off limits here, you know? All right.

01:30:36.500 --> 01:30:40.369
That's all I got. Cool. Frank, is there anything

01:30:40.369 --> 01:30:42.909
else you want to say in that thematic category?

01:30:44.250 --> 01:30:46.770
No, I think I'm probably ready to do the breakdown

01:30:46.770 --> 01:30:50.310
if you guys are. Cool, let's do it. As always

01:30:50.310 --> 01:30:52.590
on Camp Kaju, we have the good, the bad, and

01:30:52.590 --> 01:30:54.770
the campy. Frank, do you want to start off with

01:30:54.770 --> 01:30:59.829
the good stuff? Yeah, I actually, so when I first

01:30:59.829 --> 01:31:02.010
started re -watching this, I was actually thinking

01:31:02.010 --> 01:31:05.569
it was like a pretty decent movie for the first

01:31:05.569 --> 01:31:09.079
half hour or so. I think it's, like, the 30 -minute

01:31:09.079 --> 01:31:14.300
mark when Marlon Brando first shows up. And even,

01:31:14.439 --> 01:31:17.220
like, you know, I thought it set a pretty decent,

01:31:17.300 --> 01:31:21.260
ominous tone leading up to that. I actually kind

01:31:21.260 --> 01:31:24.420
of like the scene with David Thewlis and the

01:31:24.420 --> 01:31:27.220
two other guys who are on the, like, the life

01:31:27.220 --> 01:31:30.460
raft together who are just, like, you know, brutally,

01:31:30.560 --> 01:31:34.159
like, killing each other to try to survive. It's,

01:31:34.159 --> 01:31:38.029
like, very bombastic. like kind of ridiculously

01:31:38.029 --> 01:31:42.670
over the top in terms of like how just aggressive

01:31:42.670 --> 01:31:44.949
the editing is and everything in it. But it,

01:31:44.949 --> 01:31:48.090
it kind of sets a tone right away of, you know,

01:31:48.090 --> 01:31:50.789
just, this is going to be like a weird, you know,

01:31:50.789 --> 01:31:54.369
unsettling time kind of. And then also I, I think

01:31:54.369 --> 01:31:56.850
the, the first appearance of Brando, even though

01:31:56.850 --> 01:32:00.989
he, you know, looks ridiculous, like he looks

01:32:00.989 --> 01:32:04.430
like he's like coated in flour or something,

01:32:04.590 --> 01:32:08.369
but. When he first shows up and he's got the

01:32:08.369 --> 01:32:12.850
big dark glasses on and everything, and he's

01:32:12.850 --> 01:32:17.010
living in this weird alternative society on this

01:32:17.010 --> 01:32:20.529
island, it kind of reminded me of Jonestown.

01:32:21.409 --> 01:32:24.109
I don't know if that was an intentional illusion

01:32:24.109 --> 01:32:26.810
or anything, but I thought that was kind of effectively

01:32:26.810 --> 01:32:30.909
creepy. Because any old photos or footage you

01:32:30.909 --> 01:32:33.069
see of Jim Jones, he's usually got the big thick

01:32:33.069 --> 01:32:36.369
glasses on too. And it was just kind of giving

01:32:36.369 --> 01:32:38.189
me that vibe. And I don't know if the filmmakers

01:32:38.189 --> 01:32:40.829
intended that at all. It probably was just kind

01:32:40.829 --> 01:32:43.529
of like a happy accident. But I thought that

01:32:43.529 --> 01:32:46.670
was kind of effectively unsettling. And then,

01:32:46.689 --> 01:32:48.989
you know, as soon as he starts talking and stuff,

01:32:49.029 --> 01:32:52.189
the movie just gets like ridiculously campy and

01:32:52.189 --> 01:32:54.409
kind of completely goes off the rails from there.

01:32:54.470 --> 01:32:56.909
But I do think it starts off pretty well. Yeah,

01:32:56.930 --> 01:32:59.130
I would agree. Sorry. No, go ahead. After you.

01:32:59.449 --> 01:33:03.890
Okay. Good stuff. Good stuff. oh what do i have

01:33:03.890 --> 01:33:08.770
here what do i have let's see no direction bad

01:33:08.770 --> 01:33:13.909
acting makeups okay i like the makeup as i said

01:33:13.909 --> 01:33:17.510
before i love the the actor who plays the hyena

01:33:17.510 --> 01:33:19.850
swine who kind of becomes the leader of the beast

01:33:19.850 --> 01:33:23.670
folk guys i thought that was ron perlman the

01:33:23.670 --> 01:33:26.510
whole time and i was sorely disappointed that

01:33:26.510 --> 01:33:30.369
it wasn't but you know again I don't want to

01:33:30.369 --> 01:33:31.970
take away from the actor who played the hyena

01:33:31.970 --> 01:33:35.970
swine. I think he understood the assignment and

01:33:35.970 --> 01:33:40.210
just goes off the wall. Crazy. I guess as a hyena

01:33:40.210 --> 01:33:44.250
would. So I really enjoyed his performance. Daniel

01:33:44.250 --> 01:33:47.569
Rigney is his name. Daniel Rigney. He doesn't

01:33:47.569 --> 01:33:50.569
even have a Wikipedia page, right? Yeah, he's

01:33:50.569 --> 01:33:54.869
great. But like, he should be a star. And that's

01:33:54.869 --> 01:34:02.260
all I have. Makeup and Daniel Rigney. I feel

01:34:02.260 --> 01:34:04.979
like I'm a little closer to Frank. I think maybe

01:34:04.979 --> 01:34:07.680
I actually do like some things about this movie.

01:34:07.739 --> 01:34:11.279
I think it's like fairly engaging at first. The

01:34:11.279 --> 01:34:13.319
opening credits are really bombastic and over

01:34:13.319 --> 01:34:15.020
the top, but I kind of like them. I think that

01:34:15.020 --> 01:34:17.460
the tone, the music's kind of bad, but still

01:34:17.460 --> 01:34:19.760
sort of fun. I think there are some moments of

01:34:19.760 --> 01:34:23.329
visual. There's like one kind of low angle shot

01:34:23.329 --> 01:34:26.369
at night when David Thewlis is walking down like

01:34:26.369 --> 01:34:28.970
a courtyard in like Moreau's complex and like

01:34:28.970 --> 01:34:31.090
a fan is whirring in the background. I was like,

01:34:31.109 --> 01:34:34.390
oh, this is a very like mysterious image. You

01:34:34.390 --> 01:34:36.350
know, I was kind of surprised by that. And then

01:34:36.350 --> 01:34:39.550
just a couple other close ups that I thought

01:34:39.550 --> 01:34:41.250
were kind of striking. Certainly the moment when

01:34:41.250 --> 01:34:44.449
Marlon Brando first appears, you know, it straddles

01:34:44.449 --> 01:34:47.520
a fine line between like. Visual style and just

01:34:47.520 --> 01:34:50.140
like way over the top bombast. But either way,

01:34:50.199 --> 01:34:53.319
it's like interesting to look at. So I think

01:34:53.319 --> 01:34:55.500
that stuff kind of goes away at some point in

01:34:55.500 --> 01:34:56.979
the movie. It gets less visually interesting

01:34:56.979 --> 01:34:59.359
as it goes on. But I would agree with Frank.

01:34:59.659 --> 01:35:02.600
Initially, I think it at least is kind of fun

01:35:02.600 --> 01:35:04.380
to watch. And there's a certain atmosphere that's

01:35:04.380 --> 01:35:09.520
built up for a while. Yeah. But there is probably

01:35:09.520 --> 01:35:11.739
a lot more that's bad about this movie than good.

01:35:11.859 --> 01:35:14.689
And we've already talked about a lot of it. I'll

01:35:14.689 --> 01:35:16.310
just real quick start off and then you guys can

01:35:16.310 --> 01:35:18.850
take it from there. But I just I think, you know,

01:35:18.890 --> 01:35:21.069
like at least it's like entertainingly bad and

01:35:21.069 --> 01:35:23.229
like nuts for a while. But I think like the last

01:35:23.229 --> 01:35:26.310
20 minutes, maybe when you just have the beasts

01:35:26.310 --> 01:35:28.670
fighting each other and like it becomes muddled

01:35:28.670 --> 01:35:31.010
what the themes are. I think the movie actually

01:35:31.010 --> 01:35:33.270
starts to get surprisingly boring at that point.

01:35:33.289 --> 01:35:35.750
And I was like, let's go back to like the insane,

01:35:35.869 --> 01:35:38.529
crazy stuff. You know, that's that's my big bad

01:35:38.529 --> 01:35:41.319
stuff about the movie for the bad category. Yeah,

01:35:41.380 --> 01:35:44.100
I agree with that. Even though this is not a

01:35:44.100 --> 01:35:46.000
very long movie, it's only a little over an hour

01:35:46.000 --> 01:35:50.020
and a half, the big action climax does seem like

01:35:50.020 --> 01:35:52.800
it's going on forever. It reminded me, recently

01:35:52.800 --> 01:35:56.720
the movie Mickey 17 that's out in theaters, and

01:35:56.720 --> 01:36:00.260
that has a climax that just feels to me like

01:36:00.260 --> 01:36:04.479
it's the length of a regular movie. The big action

01:36:04.479 --> 01:36:06.159
scene at the end, and that's kind of how I felt

01:36:06.159 --> 01:36:07.560
in this one, even though it probably only goes

01:36:07.560 --> 01:36:10.880
on for like 20 minutes. But yeah, it just seems

01:36:10.880 --> 01:36:13.800
like, yeah, the movie gets totally lost in these

01:36:13.800 --> 01:36:17.539
just like shoddy effects and explosions and things

01:36:17.539 --> 01:36:20.680
and doesn't really recover from there. Yeah.

01:36:21.579 --> 01:36:26.000
My big criticism that I haven't mentioned is

01:36:26.000 --> 01:36:32.100
I think the makeup is so good and visually interesting

01:36:32.100 --> 01:36:37.880
that I found it upstaging the action. the actual

01:36:37.880 --> 01:36:41.159
scene that was happening because there was a

01:36:41.159 --> 01:36:43.220
moment, I don't know, it was Val Kilmer, David

01:36:43.220 --> 01:36:47.199
Doulis, and the Nelson de la Roja is on the hood

01:36:47.199 --> 01:36:49.960
of a car, like right beside them. And his makeup

01:36:49.960 --> 01:36:54.119
is so gross and weird, but like the way the shot

01:36:54.119 --> 01:36:57.819
is, or the blocking is, is the actors are blocked

01:36:57.819 --> 01:37:02.039
and the shot is composed. I'm like, yeah, yeah.

01:37:02.100 --> 01:37:03.460
You guys are talking. I don't really care about

01:37:03.460 --> 01:37:06.300
your dialogue. Look at this weirdo. And I was

01:37:06.300 --> 01:37:09.829
like, this is, I shouldn't, my, my focus shouldn't

01:37:09.829 --> 01:37:13.170
be pulled the way it is right now. And I just

01:37:13.170 --> 01:37:16.670
found the makeup upstaging the things we should

01:37:16.670 --> 01:37:21.149
actually care about in, in any given scene. I

01:37:21.149 --> 01:37:25.250
had the same exact experience. Yeah. Yeah. I

01:37:25.250 --> 01:37:26.689
don't know if it's that exact moment you're talking

01:37:26.689 --> 01:37:28.010
about, but there's, there's one part where the

01:37:28.010 --> 01:37:31.069
Nelson de la Roja character is just like randomly

01:37:31.069 --> 01:37:34.430
naked for like no apparent reason. Yeah. And

01:37:34.430 --> 01:37:38.300
yeah, that, that was like, you know like like

01:37:38.300 --> 01:37:40.399
you say it probably did pull focus from whatever

01:37:40.399 --> 01:37:42.380
was going on in that scene because i don't even

01:37:42.380 --> 01:37:44.960
remember what was going on at that time but um

01:37:44.960 --> 01:37:48.560
but it is like an effectively kind of unnerving

01:37:48.560 --> 01:37:54.319
detail i would say yeah yeah yeah yeah that's

01:37:54.319 --> 01:37:58.380
it i have a lot of campy stuff yeah i feel like

01:37:58.380 --> 01:38:01.460
most of this movie is camp in a way one example

01:38:01.460 --> 01:38:05.899
so when we were talking about the Nelson de la

01:38:05.899 --> 01:38:09.060
Roja character kind of like distracting from

01:38:09.060 --> 01:38:11.220
the main plot of the themes or whatever. One

01:38:11.220 --> 01:38:13.539
example of that is extremely campy. So maybe

01:38:13.539 --> 01:38:15.840
I'll just start off with that example. It's when

01:38:15.840 --> 01:38:18.640
Moreau and Mahai, the Nelson de la Roja character,

01:38:18.720 --> 01:38:20.520
are like sitting side by side at the dinner table,

01:38:20.600 --> 01:38:23.949
like in that dinner scene. They're just about

01:38:23.949 --> 01:38:26.069
to start like a supposedly deep conversation

01:38:26.069 --> 01:38:28.810
about like ethics and science and all this stuff.

01:38:28.949 --> 01:38:31.210
But then it's interrupted because Mahai has like

01:38:31.210 --> 01:38:33.409
his feet on the table. And Marlon Brando was

01:38:33.409 --> 01:38:35.210
like, don't do that. Get your feet off of there.

01:38:35.350 --> 01:38:38.489
And it's ridiculous. It's hilarious. And like,

01:38:38.550 --> 01:38:40.470
I couldn't think about anything else in that

01:38:40.470 --> 01:38:43.229
scene after that moment. That to me is the campiest

01:38:43.229 --> 01:38:44.930
moment and one of my favorite parts of the movie.

01:38:45.170 --> 01:38:49.789
Yeah. Yeah. Clear improv. Yeah. Not good improv.

01:38:50.329 --> 01:38:54.560
Right. Yeah, pretty much anything Marlon Brando

01:38:54.560 --> 01:38:56.760
does in this movie is campy. It is, you know,

01:38:56.779 --> 01:38:58.640
like Vincent's saying, it is entertaining on

01:38:58.640 --> 01:39:04.060
some level, but everything he does basically

01:39:04.060 --> 01:39:07.140
destroys any chance that the movie has of actually

01:39:07.140 --> 01:39:10.939
being scary or disturbing or anything. He clearly

01:39:10.939 --> 01:39:15.239
just wasn't taking it seriously, was just kind

01:39:15.239 --> 01:39:20.840
of there to indulge in whatever. whims he had

01:39:20.840 --> 01:39:24.359
at the moment and and that that's entertaining

01:39:24.359 --> 01:39:28.619
on some level but yeah definitely doesn't make

01:39:28.619 --> 01:39:34.939
for a cohesive movie yeah no just yeah absolutely

01:39:34.939 --> 01:39:39.539
so right off the bat with this movie the campiest

01:39:39.539 --> 01:39:42.220
thing happened and i forgot about it you know

01:39:42.220 --> 01:39:45.539
100 minutes later there's a shark attack right

01:39:45.539 --> 01:39:47.159
at the top of this movie do you guys remember

01:39:47.159 --> 01:39:52.180
the sharks I forgot about it until right now.

01:39:52.380 --> 01:39:58.500
I know, but it's shot like a bad shark attack

01:39:58.500 --> 01:40:02.560
movie. And it's just so funny. Immediately, I

01:40:02.560 --> 01:40:05.600
was like, okay, we're in for a ride. What else?

01:40:06.500 --> 01:40:10.479
Those boat rats. Actually, those are really bad.

01:40:12.100 --> 01:40:15.720
All right, yeah, that's all I got. I mean, everything

01:40:15.720 --> 01:40:19.619
Brando does, but shark attack is my... Campy

01:40:19.619 --> 01:40:26.060
note. Right off the bat, yeah. I did also want

01:40:26.060 --> 01:40:29.479
to point out one line that Val Kilmer says. It's

01:40:29.479 --> 01:40:31.560
in a scene where the beasts are having an orgy

01:40:31.560 --> 01:40:34.000
and they're all high on some kind of drug because

01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:35.979
Val Kilmer has been pumping them full of drugs

01:40:35.979 --> 01:40:38.979
throughout some of the movie. And right before

01:40:38.979 --> 01:40:41.619
he dies, Val Kilmer says, I think the line is,

01:40:41.779 --> 01:40:44.680
I want to go to dog heaven. which is a really

01:40:44.680 --> 01:40:47.260
ridiculous line of dialogue. And the way he delivers

01:40:47.260 --> 01:40:49.840
it is, of course, over the top and ludicrous.

01:40:49.979 --> 01:40:53.119
So I love that moment as well. All right. I think

01:40:53.119 --> 01:40:57.319
we've arrived at the point of Camp Kaiju where

01:40:57.319 --> 01:41:00.199
we give each film a rating. Our four ratings

01:41:00.199 --> 01:41:03.380
here on Camp Kaiju are, number one, it's a timeless

01:41:03.380 --> 01:41:05.500
classic. It definitely stands the test of time.

01:41:05.800 --> 01:41:08.359
Number two, there may be some antiquated moments,

01:41:08.460 --> 01:41:10.760
but overall it's great. It stands the test of

01:41:10.760 --> 01:41:13.880
time. Number three. It may be historically significant

01:41:13.880 --> 01:41:16.340
or just fun, but it does not stand the test of

01:41:16.340 --> 01:41:19.239
time. And our lowest rating, it is not worth

01:41:19.239 --> 01:41:21.720
revisiting. It definitely does not stand the

01:41:21.720 --> 01:41:24.859
test of time. Vincent, do you want to start us

01:41:24.859 --> 01:41:30.939
off? Sure. You know, I think that this movie

01:41:30.939 --> 01:41:35.460
is bad, but I don't think it's boring. So I'm

01:41:35.460 --> 01:41:39.039
going to give it the second lowest rating. Is

01:41:39.039 --> 01:41:41.720
that right? You know. It does not stand the test

01:41:41.720 --> 01:41:46.020
of time, but it has some fun moments. I don't

01:41:46.020 --> 01:41:49.119
think it's as bad or as unwatchable as you may

01:41:49.119 --> 01:41:53.140
be led to believe. I think Marlon Brando is pure

01:41:53.140 --> 01:41:56.859
camp in this movie. And there are some visuals

01:41:56.859 --> 01:42:01.359
that, again, whether they're bad or not, they're

01:42:01.359 --> 01:42:06.220
going to stick with you. So yeah, 1996, Island

01:42:06.220 --> 01:42:10.720
of Dr. Moreau. Check it out for the... The morbidly

01:42:10.720 --> 01:42:15.479
curious among you. Yeah, I'm 100 % with everything

01:42:15.479 --> 01:42:17.939
Vincent said there. I agree with that rating,

01:42:17.979 --> 01:42:20.460
too. Maybe historically significant or just fun,

01:42:20.600 --> 01:42:23.220
but doesn't stand the test of time. It's definitely,

01:42:23.479 --> 01:42:26.220
yeah, I don't think it's anywhere near one of

01:42:26.220 --> 01:42:30.539
the worst movies I've ever seen. It's too bizarre,

01:42:30.720 --> 01:42:35.100
has too many individual striking moments to be

01:42:35.100 --> 01:42:39.000
a waste of time. But it definitely does not work.

01:42:40.060 --> 01:42:43.939
in any way at the same time. It's a huge mess.

01:42:44.300 --> 01:42:48.119
You can tell that whatever chaos happened behind

01:42:48.119 --> 01:42:51.100
the scenes that we went into great detail on

01:42:51.100 --> 01:42:54.380
here shows up on the screen, I think, which is

01:42:54.380 --> 01:43:00.119
interesting. It gives it an interesting effect.

01:43:00.760 --> 01:43:03.420
But yeah, definitely did not like it as much

01:43:03.420 --> 01:43:09.640
as I did when I was 12. Yeah, 100 % agree with

01:43:09.640 --> 01:43:11.800
both of you guys. If I had seen it when I was

01:43:11.800 --> 01:43:13.800
12, I probably would have loved it, but it does

01:43:13.800 --> 01:43:16.359
not stand the test of time. But yeah, it is fun.

01:43:16.439 --> 01:43:18.939
It's entertaining throughout much of the running

01:43:18.939 --> 01:43:21.539
time, if not in the end. I kind of mentioned

01:43:21.539 --> 01:43:23.619
this at the beginning of the episode, but I would

01:43:23.619 --> 01:43:25.659
rather have a movie that's interestingly bad

01:43:25.659 --> 01:43:28.659
than just boring and forgettable. And this movie

01:43:28.659 --> 01:43:30.640
is not forgettable at all. It is not boring for

01:43:30.640 --> 01:43:32.899
most of its running time. And it's a case study

01:43:32.899 --> 01:43:35.810
in just like how... quickly a Hollywood production

01:43:35.810 --> 01:43:38.710
can fall apart. And that's, like you said, Frank,

01:43:38.810 --> 01:43:41.869
is pretty fascinating to watch. That was great.

01:43:41.970 --> 01:43:44.069
Thank you again, Frank, for joining us. Always

01:43:44.069 --> 01:43:47.350
a pleasure. We will see all of you out there

01:43:47.350 --> 01:43:49.810
next time on Camp Kaiju for Invaders from Mars.

01:43:50.869 --> 01:43:53.510
Hopefully we'll see some of you at Trivia on

01:43:53.510 --> 01:43:57.550
May 5th at Indeed Brewing. Getting tired, sorry.

01:44:21.210 --> 01:44:26.439
for more information. Camp Kaiju was recorded

01:44:26.439 --> 01:44:28.659
in Minneapolis, St. Paul with Minya's Mailbox

01:44:28.659 --> 01:44:31.899
Music by Ben Cook -Felts. Thanks, friends. And

01:44:31.899 --> 01:44:34.939
until next time, stay campy. Camp Kaiju is sponsored

01:44:34.939 --> 01:44:36.840
by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack, powered by

01:44:36.840 --> 01:44:39.359
Coldwell Banker Realty. Your source for real

01:44:39.359 --> 01:44:41.779
estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor

01:44:41.779 --> 01:44:44.380
clients and residential buyers. Reach out to

01:44:44.380 --> 01:44:46.079
the Zach Pack today for real estate services.

01:44:46.460 --> 01:44:49.180
Follow the Zach Pack on social media and contact

01:44:49.180 --> 01:44:51.960
the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Link

01:44:51.960 --> 01:45:02.109
in the show notes. Things didn't work out. Nero

01:45:02.109 --> 01:45:04.670
wanted to turn animals into humans and humans

01:45:04.670 --> 01:45:08.649
into gods. But it's instinct and reason. Instinct

01:45:08.649 --> 01:45:13.090
and reason. What's instinct to a dog? To hunt.

01:45:13.270 --> 01:45:19.390
To kill. Master. To run. Back. I want to go to

01:45:19.390 --> 01:45:20.010
dog heaven.