where is he getting these baboons? Every time
you turn around, there's another baboon in the
laboratory. Yeah. You got to feel for him. Yeah.
I would, you know, like there is like a tiny
bit of explanation because he works for this
research lab. So maybe he's like getting them
through the lab, but you would think at some
point they're like, we're spending thousands
of dollars on these baboons. Like they would
probably stop approving that, you know, him using
them for the experiments. Hello and welcome to
Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Podcast. I'm your host,
Vincent Hannum, and together me and Matt talk
about all our favorite monster movies, the good,
the bad, and the downright campy, and asking
if they stand the test of time. Traditional kaiju,
creature features, space invaders, the supernatural,
and everything in between. All strange beasts
are welcome here. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by
Zach Linder and the Zach Pack, powered by Coldwell
Banker Realty. Your source for real estate, home
rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients
and residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach
Pack today for real estate services. Follow the
Zach Pack on social media and contact the Zach
Pack for investment opportunities. Links in the
show notes. I think you're making a mistake.
I think you really want to talk to me. Sorry,
I have three other interviews to do before this
party's over. Yeah, but they're not working on
something that will change the world as we know
it. They say they are. Yeah, but they're lying.
There is a limit, even to the imagination. Human
teleportation, molecular decimation, breakdown,
and reformation is inherently purging. Where
our greatest creations meet our deepest fears.
Something went wrong, Seth. When you went through,
something went wrong. You are about to go beyond
that limit. Those weird hairs that were growing
out of your back, I had them analyzed. They were
definitely not human. If you saw how scared and
angry and desperate he is... I'm sure Typhoid
Mary was a very nice person, too, when you saw
her socially. No! You're afraid to be destroyed
and recreated, aren't you? You're changing, Seth.
Everything about you is changing. Oh, no. What's
happening to me? Am I dying? I want to know what's
going on. What does the disease want? It was
to turn me into something else. A fly got into
the transmitter pod with me the first time when
I was alone. Don't go back to it. It could be
contagious. I'm afraid. Don't be afraid. No.
Be afraid. Be very afraid. All right, listeners,
campers, the world over. Here's what we got going
on for you this weekend. We are talking about
The Fly, David Cronenberg's reimagining from
1986 based on the short story from the 50s, and
then more widely known, the film from 1958 starring
Vincent Price and David Hedison. So. What gives?
Why are we going with the fly instead of Island
of Dr. Moreau? Well, we're still going to get
to the Island of Dr. Moreau from 96, but that's
going to be two weeks from now. So what ended
up happening, let you in behind the curtain here,
is that as of this recording, which is March
25th, 2025, Matt is in Mexico and I'm gearing
up for my own spring break vacation to sunny
Iowa. With that said, you know, me and Matt decided
let's just push back Dr. Moreau and wait until
we can really commit ourselves to it. Frank Olson
is going to join us there. Longtime listeners
rejoice for the return of Frank. So I thought
to myself, hmm, you know, we do have a back catalog
at this point on Camp Kaiju, which is a really
great. We're very proud of our show and our content.
And what you're going to hear is our recording
of The Fly 1986, originally released October
2021. So what, three and a half years ago? That's
insane. It's also the first time Matt appeared
on this here podcast. It's also just kind of
a trip back through time, me and Matt, before
we had any sort of script, before we had any
sort of inside jokes. It's just he and I, we
had met, well, he and I had personally met years
ago. We worked together, but for the fly, for
this episode you're going to hear, we recorded
it originally on Instagram. Yeah, we did an Instagram
live show, and that's how I was recording Camp
Kaiju at that time. Boy, how times have changed.
And we couldn't thank the patrons enough out
there for allowing that change to continually
develop. So I got to shout out Jason, Chris,
Sean, our anonymous patron, Peggy, and our brand
new patron, Will. If you're out there listening,
thank you for your contributions every month.
It really keeps us going. And if you, Will, and
everyone else listening, you know, go back to
season one, go back to season two of Camp Kaiju.
The audio is not great. I'm going to own up to
that. I was just starting out my podcast journey.
I was recording myself on my phone. I was uploading
these to Instagram, to YouTube, and occasionally
I was going live with a special guest. Case in
point, Matthew Cole Levine. We'd worked together.
We'd been friends together. I knew he was a movie
buff and a film critic. And had a lot of really
interesting and good takes on the horror genre
specifically. Science fiction monster movies.
So Matt, as you'll soon hear, is a huge fan of
Cronenberg. And this fly in particular is one
of his favorite movies. You know, it's not a
spoiler to say this is a highly regarded masterpiece
to many people. And I can't argue with those
points. So we hope you enjoy, and we hope you
forgive any audio qualities that are less than
what you're used to with more recent seasons
of Camp Kaiju. Now, while Cronenberg's Fly may
be an undisputed marvel of a film, and the 58
Fly, I would say, is equally in those ranks for
very different reasons. But please check that
movie out if you haven't. But I can't wait to
get into a little bit of my own personal takes
on the sequels in this bizarre franchise. Listeners,
I got to tell you, you know, you have your Frankensteins,
have your Freddy Kruegers. But when it comes
to horror franchises, I think The Fly, this is
a five film. franchise is is underrated and just
through and through aside apart from the two
bona fide classics these sequels we have return
of the fly from 1959 curse of the fly from the
mid 60s and then fly 2 which is the sequel to
cronenberg's fly these movies offer so much to
dive into to to buzz about and And really analyze.
They run the gamut from good, bad, and campy.
Which is our bread and butter here on Camp Kaiju.
So that's what I really love those kinds of movies.
I'm going to talk about them a little bit here
in order. But I want to just go into some nuts
and bolts before I do that. I do want to thank
you truly for listening this week. I know it's
a surprise episode. But please rate and review
wherever you listen. That really goes a long
way. in increasing our audience, which again,
I'm proud of the work we put out. And I'm proud
of the little community we have created here
on Camp Kaiju. I read all the reviews I can on
YouTube, on Instagram, on Spotify. I always try
to respond. And even if out there you're not
always agreeing with what me and Matt say, I
really appreciate the back and forth conversations
that that that then leads to, because, you know,
we don't love every movie and not everyone out
there agrees that what I think is a masterpiece.
It's and I love that. I love that conversation.
I love that film and art can do that. And here
we are talking about the fly, all the flies,
which, you know, I think. to varying degrees,
speak to that complicated, wonderful place that
art can inhabit where it is both popular and
artistic, right? So it can be loved by audiences
and respected by critics. And I think The Fly
as a franchise, as a series, just hits that sweet
spot so well. I love it. I love it. So truly,
thank you for listening. If you have any thoughts,
opinions, questions, or memories about The Fly,
any of these movies, please let us know. You
can send listener comments to campkaiju at gmail
.com, our Instagram page at camp underscore kaiju
underscore podcast, or call us. Please leave
us a voicemail at 612 -470 -2612. And we'll feature
your voice on the show. So please check all that
out in our show notes. CampKaijuPodcast .com
is also a wonderful place. And you know what
the best place is? Our Patreon. So check that
out. The more patrons we get, the more perks
and prizes we can offer. So it's pretty exciting
over at Camp Kaiju this year. Yeah, we truly
appreciate it. Of course, you can buy some merch,
t -shirts, magnets, coasters, mugs, mouse pads,
you name it. Campkaiju .threadless .com can offer
you a whole lot of really interesting things.
So, speaking of Patreon, I just want to go back
to that for a second. On May 5th at Indeed Brewing
in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Me and Matt will be
co -hosting Film Friends Movie Trivia with Naomi
Osborne. This is her once a month event over
at Indeed where she hosts and curates a movie
trivia night. It's a blast. Talk about community.
Same people go every month. I've enjoyed every
time I've gone. And I'm honored. Me and Matt
are both honored to be behind the table May 5th.
Coming at you with some monster movie trivia,
of course. So if you are in town, please stop
by and you'll get a free drink, alcoholic or
not, on us, on Camp Kaiju, for patrons. So become
a patron between now and May 5th, 2025, and you're
good for a free drink. So why pass that up? And
of course, if you're not in town... If you become
a patron between now and then, we'll make it
up for you. We'll come up with something else,
another freebie. Because, hey, patrons, you're
the foundation for all this. So thanks so much.
Will everyone in the theater hold on firmly to
his seat, please? Stop it! Stop it! I'm Vincent
Price. What an earthly horror did that girl gaze
upon? What manner of incredible thing walked
beneath that hood? It would be unfair at this
time to show you any more of what went on in
that laboratory where a man actually dared to
play God. So fantastic, words can't begin to
describe it. You must see it with your own eyes
to believe it when the fly comes your way. It
isn't like any other fly I've ever seen. No!
No! No! Please let me look at the fly! I've killed
Andre. Please help me. Call the police and...
The charge can only be murder. There were no
mistresses. I had no lovers. Why did you kill
him? God, don't let it get out. Inspector. Inspector,
it's in the garden. Come quickly. As God is my
witness, I saw the thing. It's unbelievable.
I shall never forget that scream as long as I
live. The fly is on its way. Watch out for it.
It's far beyond anything your mind could ever
conceive. It would be unfair at this time to
show you any more of what went on in that laboratory
where a man actually dared to play God. So fantastic,
words can't begin to describe it. You must see
it with your own eyes to believe it. When the
fly comes your way. Listen. Do you hear? It's
coming back. Turning the screen into a buzzing,
crawling, creeping nightmare of terror. This
is the son of the original fly, daring to explore
the forbidden science of transmigration that
brought horrible death to his father. You look
as if you've just seen a ghost, old man. It was
the fly. Fear that will fasten its choking grip
on you as his weird experiments spawn the twisted
monstrosities of a living hell. The rat man whose
hands and feet are changed to paws. The living
corpse who rose from his coffin. And the return
of the fly. Seeking revenge with a thousand eyes.
Smashing anything that stands in his way. Suppose
he does come here. What if Philippe does not
have the mind of a human? But the murderous brain
of the fly. Then he will have to be destroyed.
The terror shock that can't be stopped. You're
not God. You're not even human. You murdered
those men and you made me a murderer too. Weird
experiments about cursed scientists turn human
beings into living hybrid hell monsters. Now
you hold hands with the devil. Now you run. Run
for your life from the terror. The torment of
torture inflicted by Satan's ambassador of evil.
The next victim could be you. Or you. Or you.
Caught forever by the Curse of the Fly. Return
of the Fly from 1959. Now, why don't I start
with The Fly from 58? Well, me and Matt actually
recorded a brief podcast episode on that movie
back in 2021. So I recommend going back into
the history books and listen to that episode
when you get done with this one. But we haven't
talked about any of the sequels. And of course,
you know, I'm going to offer my two cents here,
but not at the expense of Matt's valued input.
You know, listeners, if you like what you hear
just a little bit here, let us know if you want
some full episodes on these bad boys, because
trust me, we're happy to oblige. But Return of
the Fly from 1959. As I write on Camp Kaiju's
Letterboxd, it is an effective sequel that continues
the storyline of the Delambre family, whereby
the son follows in the doomed footsteps of his
scientifically ambitious father. The fact that
the son is destined for Flyville is no surprise,
but how he gets there offers enough unexpected
thrills. The crime elements of the film are tightly
directed and compellingly played. Vincent Price
keeps it straight, and Brett Halsey as Philippe
is a dynamic screen presence. By the end, however,
this drama lurches into camp with the revelation
of the fly. It's almost impossible not to with
makeup costume limitations as they were. Folks,
even the first fly, acclaimed as it is, features
some unintentional humor. Nevertheless, it's
a giddy romp through the woods. Oh, and this
is a spoiler. And the hamster with hands will
live in your nightmares rent free. Oh, overall,
Return of the Fly plays it safe. but manages
to deliver some intrigue, shock, and charm along
the way. Hamster with hands, y 'all. That's all
I have to say. A really bizarre moment of surrealist
horror. Like, it's weird and wild. I didn't expect
it in a black -and -white 50s ostensibly B -movie,
but there it is. Return of the Fly. Check it
out. And then for the really ambitious of you,
it just calls for a double feature with 1965's
Curse of the Fly. Now, this one does contain
spoilers, so feel free to fast forward a couple
minutes here. But here we go. Now, the lack of
flies in Curse of the Fly isn't necessarily the
problem, but the advertising that sells fly mayhem
to no avail. The movie seems to build up to the
unexpected show -stopping moment of science gone
wrong until... nothing. Literally, the protagonist
fades away and you're left feeling the same about
this movie. Still, there are several sequences
worth highlighting. The eerie opening is an effective
hook. Perhaps the film peaks too soon with this.
The reveal that Father has been lost in space
is horrifying, and the body horror of two men
being spliced together foreshadows Cronenberg's
later take on the material and so much other
80s body horror. Overall, however, Curse of the
Fly seems so willing to set itself apart from
its predecessors that it fails to deliver a worthy
sequel, much less a standalone feature. Now,
before I get to Fly 2 from 1989, I got to say
Return of the Fly and Curse of the Fly, they
offer up legitimate body horror at a time period
where I am not used to seeing such effects. Curse
of the Fly in particular, there is a puppet.
It's not an animatronic. I'm sure it's done with
like air pumps and valves, but there's some sort
of prop. That is two male human naked bodies
conjoined. Something you'd way more expect to
see in the 80s, right? Like with Carpenter's
The Thing or Cronenberg's films. And the fact
that you're seeing it in this 60s black and white
cheapo B movie, I think is ahead of its time.
And whatever faults I have with Curse of the
Fly and even Return of the Fly. The fact that
you're seeing truly unsettling visual effects,
it's worth the price of admission. So if you
can, please rent Curse of the Fly and Return
of the Fly. My personal preference is Return
of the Fly, a more faithful, straightforward
sequel to the fly that continues the story. Curse
of the Fly is a bit controversial in that regard.
Everyone seems to have an opinion on it, so I'd
love to hear yours. But let's find my letterboxd
take on The Fly 2 from 1989. So this follow -up
to Cronenberg's preceding masterpiece self -assuredly
goes its own route, leaning into more action
and less idiosyncrasies. After all, we have already
seen the gruesome transformation of man into
Rundlefly. Rather, Fly 2 offers up imagery involving
cocoon sacks and a bipedal monster more like
Jurassic Park's Velociraptor than the fly monster
from before. All of this is brought to life with
impressive special effects. Where the film suffers
is the overtness of it all. Actors play sad,
angry, scared. It's difficult to explain, but
compelling acting is all about less, not more.
Additionally, The script is laughably ham -fisted
in moments as the screenwriter clumsily fills
in exposition. These deficiencies eliminate any
emotional connection to the life and death stakes
of the characters. Overall, without its famous
pedigree, I fear Fly 2 would be borderline forgettable,
lost in the milieu of 80s effects -driven horror
films. However, as an entry in one of the strangest
franchises out there, it's a worthy addition.
It's a worthy addition. How would I rank the
flies? I mean, there's five of them. I guess
I'd go Cronenberg's fly, the 58 fly, Return of
the Fly. I think I gotta go Fly 2 and then Curse
of the Fly. But those bottom two, I could mix
and match. Now, not that any of these movies
are unwatchable. even curse curse the fly and
the fly to have their moments like i said um
they're worth checking out again just for the
conversation and and to think about maybe what
could have been what what turns and twists could
have been better um but they're not boring by
any means so definitely definitely worth a watch
um in in current monster movie news You know,
if you Google new fly movie, of course there's
something kind of in the works. From 20th Century
Studios, Nikiatu Jusu, apologies if I'm mispronouncing
that, but Nikiatu Jusu is a writer -director,
and she's developing a new fly based on Cronenberg's
edition. Now, this is reportedly not a sequel.
but also not a remake, maybe its own interpretation
of the film. Oh, I don't know. I'm looking at
an article from deadline right now from November,
2024. Um, it says the film's plot is under wraps.
Um, however it is, it is again from Jusu. Who's
one of a closely watched genre filmmaker. She,
Directed a horror film called Nanny that debuted
at Sundance not too long ago. She is working
for Monkey Paw and Universal and seems to be
dipping her toes into a lot of horror themed
films. So I don't know. I mean, I am I would
love to see new fly movies. It's been a while.
I think this film. And this series are ripe for
interpretation. You know, science versus nature,
humanity versus corporations. There's a lot of
critique of capitalism in these movies and the
pursuit of knowledge for wealth's sake rather
than maybe the betterment of society. But then
you get really campy aspects like teleportation
and little insects with human faces that... honestly
are so weird um truly the stuff of nightmares
so if you've only ever seen one fly movie there's
so much more for you to dig into i'm excited
for you i'm excited for this journey um i want
to talk about it so yeah that's where i'm going
to leave this little intro to to this re -release
of me and matt's previous conversation So thanks
for sticking it out. Enjoy the content. Let us
know what you think. So until next time, when
we come at you with The Island of Dr. Moreau,
what else can I say but stay campy? Listen. Do
you hear it? It's getting closer. Much closer.
Don't be afraid. Be very, very afraid. You can
finish your father's work. You're as brilliant
as he was. Something odd is happening to me and
I don't know what it is. I'm getting worse. I'm
getting better. The Fly 2. Like father, like
son. Hello and welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster
Movie Talk. Tonight we are going live to discuss
the next installment of our September series
for The Love of Craft. Looking at not just Lovecraft
adaptations, but movies that still kind of play
in that same lane of not just cosmic horror,
but maybe science gone awry. At the very most,
it's a wide umbrella, this series is just looking
at practical effects and, you know, the love
people have for their craft. So tonight we have
a very special guest, a buddy of mine, a film.
critic, aficionado, essayist. His name is Matt
Levine, and I'll be bringing him on here in just
a second to discuss David Cronenberg's The Fly.
Here we go. All right, we will just... There
he is. How you doing, Matt? Good, how are you?
Awesome. Good. So glad you're here. Yeah, thank
you. It's good to be here. I love your background.
It looks rather spooky. Yeah, that's what I was
going for. This is our front porch in our house,
and we're excited to start decorating it for
Halloween. So it's almost that time of year.
You don't have to do much to decorate. Indeed.
Yeah. Our favorite part of the house. No offense.
I am itching to start decorating for the season.
Yeah, my favorite time of year is the best holiday.
I mean, a good excuse to watch at least one horror
movie a day. So I'm so excited. It's almost October.
So I went to the library today where I checked
out a whole bunch of classic, like, black and
white horror movies that I've never seen before.
And, well, I wanted to run them by you and get
your gut reactions. I'm excited. Okay. Actually,
this one I have seen before. We have talked about.
Cat People. So good. It's a masterpiece of suggestion.
And Jacques Tourneur is one of the best like
visual stylists of classical Hollywood horror.
It's so good. And, you know, I think like what
it gets at in terms of sexuality and sort of
like the danger, but also the excitement of it.
It's so great and goes a little bit over the
top in the Paul Schrader remakes in the 80s,
which also must be seen to be believed. But yeah,
Cat People is such a good movie. Awesome. A little
sneak peek for people watching. I want to, in
October, I want to do a series about classic
black and white monster movies. And Matt, I wanted
to ask you, I would love to chat with you about
this movie, but also its sequel, The Curse of
the Cat People. Which I don't know if you've
seen, but I'm interested in that too. That's
an awesome movie. It's a sequel in name only.
In fact, they were sort of trying to capitalize
on the success of Cat People. So they sort of
brought in that appeal. But the story doesn't
really have anything to do with the first film.
It's kind of a little bit more about parenthood
and like childlike imagination. And yeah, it's
really, really great. I'll talk to you about
it. Well, yeah, let's make a plan. So my next
movie is the aforementioned remake of Cat People.
It's like we planned it, but we didn't. My expectations
for this are low, but I'm going to give it a
whirl at some point. Yeah, and I wouldn't say
that your expectations should be low necessarily.
It's a really gorgeously beautiful movie. Really
great score. There are some David Bowie songs,
at least one David Bowie song on the soundtrack.
Nastassja Kinski is really great. Yeah, it's
way over the top. It's really ridiculous. But
no, sometimes that can only improve a movie.
All right. So maybe high on the camp factor with
that one. Yeah, a certain kind of camp for sure.
Here is a movie related to tonight. The 1950s
Fly. With Vincent Price. When have you seen this
one? It's been a long time. Probably about 15
years now. And to date myself a little bit, that
was like one of my first years in college as
an undergrad. So it's been a while. Probably
should have rewatched it for this conversation.
But, you know, it's a little heavier on the cam
for sure. Yeah. Certainly in relation to the
David Cronenberg version. But you got to love
it. I mean, if you're a fan of 50s horror. Yeah.
I haven't seen it since I was a kid. So I'm excited
to watch that one. Another Vincent Price movie.
I kind of went on a Vincent Price deep dive here.
I have The Tingler, which I know is a cult classic
from the 50s. It just looks and sounds gross.
You can't go wrong with that title. I don't.
And it's like an earwig. I don't know. It looks
gross. I think I haven't seen that one since
high school. So that's been even longer. But
that's really good. In this one, Vincent Price
is a very small part, early role. It's called
The Tower of London with Basil Rathbone and Boris
Karloff from 1939, I think. I don't know. Looks
creepy and dark atmosphere. Speaking of dark
houses, I have The Old Dark House. Love that
movie. Do you? I've wanted to see this for a
long time. It's so good. James Whale, one of
my favorite old school horror directors. Yeah.
And sort of like Bride of Frankenstein, the old
dark house is a great mixture of comedy and horror.
It's really short. It's like an hour and five
minutes. So, so good. It's really good. I might
flip it off on that. Yeah. I mean, anytime you
want to come over, like let's watch them. I we'll
get to the fly. Yeah. I've just been, I've always
wanted to see like the thirties type horror movies
outside of the classic monsters. The Old Dark
House or Freaks or The Black Cat, I think. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. There's some good stuff.
White Zombie is really good. Yeah, I want to
see that. That one's great. Dr. X, I just watched
recently. That's a really strange movie because
it had like a three strip Technicolor process
that was like. used way back in the day and then
they stopped using it in the early 30s so it's
like a very old color movie that has this weird
surreal look where all the colors are sort of
faded and sort of dreamlike that's a really cool
movie yeah so i was only limited by what the
library had i can stream all these but i was
i yeah i checked out like too many movies from
the library so the fly to turn our attention
to an 80s remake of a 50s classic Just a quick
little summary on Letterboxd. The tagline, first
of all, is be afraid, be very afraid, which I
didn't know was from this movie. That's just
one of those lines that I didn't know where it
came from. So it goes, when Seth Brundle makes
a huge scientific and technological breakthrough
in teleportation, he decides to test it on himself.
Unbeknownst to him. A common housefly manages
to get inside the device and the two become one.
That's about it. That's it in a pod. It's accurate
and yet does not convey the full freakish extent
of the movie. So we're going to talk about the
good, the bad, and the downright campy when it
comes to this film. We'll start with the good,
because why not? Well, actually, one of the good
notes I had about this movie is related to what
you just said about, like, it tells you exactly
what that is, but at the same time, nothing.
I found a lot of the suspense with this movie
came because I knew exactly what was going to
happen. I knew he was going to turn into a fly.
But how it got us there kept me on my toes the
whole time. Yeah, absolutely. I think... To me,
this movie is 96 % good. This is one of my favorite
horror movies and my favorite David Cronenberg
movie, so I think it's almost entirely good.
Almost no movie is perfect, but this movie is
so ambitious. It's a good example of why horror
is my favorite genre, because that storyline
that you just said is... You know, it scratches
the surface of what this movie is sort of trying
to get at in terms of, like, what is a human
being and, like, where does the human body end
and, like, other bodies begin. And that's body
in, like, many different senses of the word.
Animal bodies or, like, machine bodies and things
like that. I think it's about disease. I think
it's about, you know, like, humanity's sort of
desire to be better and that sort of destroys
them in the end. It's a really sad movie, but
also really disgusting and gory. And that's kind
of a perfect combination, I think. It was doing
quite a number on my heartstrings. It was super
sad, but then really wretched and vile at the
same time. Yeah. The best. My favorite combination.
Yeah. It has a ton of heart. Really sincere.
The love story is sincere. I totally buy that
between Geena Davis and Jeff Goldblum. The big
thing I love about it is how it's not a simple
movie by any means, but I felt like the performances
and the direction were so incredibly understated
that it sold all the absurdity that's really
happening. But you buy it because of the understated
way it's all being delivered. Yeah, absolutely.
With such a ridiculous premise, it's kind of
amazing that they pulled that off. But right.
Yeah, I think it is kind of rooted in, you know,
sort of human motivations or feelings or whatever,
because, you know, like, I think ambition, again,
is, you know, hubris, whatever, like, if you
want to, the old school literary term, like,
you know, Jeff Goldblum, like wants to create
this earth shattering. that will change science
and change the world as we know it. And Geena
Davis is a journalist who wants to, you know,
be in on this huge story. And again, like ultimately
that does destroy them, which probably isn't
a surprise to anybody who knows anything about
the movie. But yeah, I think that's really relatable.
And like the fact that they sort of just like
stumble into this together and do very quickly
sort of, you know, develop feelings for each
other, probably because of like partially because
of their shared. ambition and their like desire
to like sort of make an impact with their lives
and then it all goes horribly awry um yeah you're
absolutely right it makes it um way more you
know relatable and engrossing than uh you know
most viewers probably would expect yeah and especially
because it is um it is it at it at its like at
its roots the roots of this film is a b movie
and like that's part of the fun i think too when
you When you are familiar with B -movies from
the 50s and you're confronted with a real auteur
film like The Fly, it's still fun to see where
even a movie as well thought out as this is still
leaning into the tropes and still camouflaging
the tropes in something very artistic. If that
makes sense. Yeah, I think you're totally right.
Yeah. And it's like the tagline, I think is kind
of a good example of that because the moment
that it's spoken by Geeta Davis, when she says,
be afraid, be very afraid, it's sort of out of
place. Like it's a pretty intense scene and you
don't really expect it, but it like, it's sort
of comedic and it like alleviates the tension
a little bit, you know, it's perfect. That's
like one of the best examples of that combination,
I think. Right. And the fact that we are dealing
with a mad scientist. I mean, he gets there when
the fly genome is affecting him. He is a mad
scientist. They're so great. I comment on this
on 50s science fiction movies all the time. There's
always a scene where the scientist just says
a bunch of mumbo jumbo that you just buy it because
the story needs you to buy it. And it's like,
great, that explains it. And there was a part
where Jeff Goldblum said some mumbo jumbo and,
okay, great. We're on this train. Yeah. You know,
I've always been a strong supporter that a little
bit or a lot of suspension of disbelief is the
best way to approach any movie. So I'm definitely
okay with it. Yeah, I'm okay with it too. It
was awesome. It's pretty cool too to see the
old school technology in this movie from 1986.
The old computers and the program that he invents
to fuse these different DNA sequences. It's kind
of a marvel of primitive analog computer technology.
That's true. Sorry. No, that's all I was going
to say. It's cool to see. It's great set design
and great special effects and all that. Oh, well,
in terms of the set design, I think this movie
is I've it's rare that I see a production design
as detailed as this, like the set dressings,
the costumes, the props, like everything was
so meticulously intentional. Yeah. Do you have
anything come to your mind? Any other any examples
of that kind of stuff? uh no i definitely agree
i mean i think this again goes back to what you
were just talking about but his like rapid descent
from like a mostly normal human being like sort
of an oddball but still like quirky and like
just a scientist you know like not anything really
threatening or whatever uh like rapidly into
like like you said mad scientist realm where
his uh like he has this law loft and um i think
it was shot in toronto i guess we don't know
exactly where the movie is set but um But, yeah,
he has this loft, which is, like, sort of run
down in kind of, like, a cool, like, bohemian
way at the beginning. And then, like, so rapidly,
but so believably, like, it just becomes, like,
a lair that's, like, filled with, like, garbage
and, like, rotting meat. And then eventually,
like, his own rotting body parts. And, like,
it gets more and more gross, you know? Like,
perfectly done, yeah. It's a total horror nightmare
setting. Yeah. You could believe that, like,
Michael Myers is in that warehouse. Yeah, it's
awesome. Yeah, I was going to comment on the
same in the same vein, like the costuming also
clearly like tracks the character development
just through the costuming. There's a part where
he's wearing a bomber jacket like this. And I
was like, oh, because he's a fly because he's
flying. I don't know if I'm reading into it,
but I think that was intentional. Yeah, for sure.
And I think just the fact, too, that he, like,
wears the same clothes every day, as Geena Davis
points out in the movie. And she, like, looks
in his closet, and it's, like, the same blazer,
the same pants that he wears, like, every single
day. And then, like, throughout the course of
the movie, you know, starts to break away from
that, starts to, like, change up his wardrobe
a little bit. Right. A sign of a sort of, like,
you know, freakish confidence as he starts to
get a little more strong. And then, obviously,
that goes downhill from there. But, yeah, you're
right. The costuming is, like, really sort of...
subtle and like says a lot about the characters
for sure yeah um do you want to transition into
some challenging aspects some things that maybe
didn't quite work for you i know this is like
your favorite movie so it might be tough for
you but uh what are what are some things that
that kind of stand out to you uh yeah it is sort
of tough for me but there there are some things
for sure i guess like what i think is the strength
of the movie could be seen as a flaw which is
that like The narrative is like so lean and tight
and concise. There's not like a single moment
that's like filler or like extraneous. Like we
start with Jeff Goldblum and Geena Davis meeting
each other. Like that's the very first scene.
And the very last scene, and not to give it away
too much, but there's nowhere you can really
go after that. So I guess, you know, some people
could consider it sort of a criticism that it's
just like, it seems simple on the surface. Like
it really is just like the story of a man turning
into a fly, basically. incorrect i think there's
so many sort of subtexts built into that plot
but uh so i guess maybe that doesn't count i
think like maybe a more valid criticism is uh
the question of is david cronenberg a misogynist
or a sexist filmmaker i think in some other of
his movies that does like in the brood for example
like he wrote and directed that movie when he
was going through a bad divorce and like that
movie sort of is about like an angry ex -wife
who creates like a spawn of hellish children
so i i do think that that accusation holds up
with the brood and in the fly there's like the
nightmare sequence where gina davis gives birth
to like a huge maggot um and it depends which
is pretty disgusting i like it obviously it depends
on how you read that like i think it could be
read as sort of like uh you know like motherhood
motherhood and childbirth is disgusting or i
don't think that's accurate i think the way it
could be right is that weirdly enough, it's kind
of a metaphor for abortion. The fact that it's
kind of like a weirdly approach choice movie
unexpectedly because she needs to abort her baby.
She knows that it's sort of dangerous for her.
And there's a lot of sympathy for her in those
scenes. So I read about the fly that sort of
raised that question, but I think there's actually
a lot of very difficult and sort of, yeah, I
mean, at least to some gruesome areas, but there's
a lot of sympathy for the Gina Davis character
in this movie for sure. Yeah. I mean, I don't
know much about Cronenberg. If he, if his other
works speak to a sort of misogyny, I think the
fly had like some of the male characters are
douchebags, but that's their character. Like
that's fine. Like, you know, but as, as Gina
Davis is treated, like you said, I think there's,
I think she's treated like a strong independent
woman who's just trying to, you know, do what
she can and she falls in love with a fly man.
You do, yeah. She's just a woman trying to survive.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I don't think it's
totally... I don't think it's a valid criticism
to The Fly, personally. No. On the other hand,
the sequel to this movie, maybe that is a little
more accurate, but that's a conversation for
a different time. I am slightly shocked that
there are as many Fly movies, like, just in total
in the world as there are. And still not enough,
in my opinion. I want to watch them all with
you and just like marathon literally the good,
the bad, and the campy. Yes, yes. I would love
to hear what your take on the bad and the fly
is because I think maybe your response was a
little more mixed than mine. No, I echo you.
I think it's so tight that... And it's nitpicking,
but it does force your mind to make certain narrative
leaps as they're falling in love, for instance.
It's like, oh, that happened fast. Or in the
bar when he literally snaps a man's arm in half
and there's no consequences. He's just like,
well, all right, moving on. And no, you would
be in jail. There would be massive consequences
to that. but that would be a different movie.
Like that's not the movie. So, you know, you
get it, you buy it, you know, suspension of disbelief.
I'm nitpicking, but yeah, no, there are some
plot holes for sure. I, uh, yeah, I, I, you know,
I started to think of it. Like if I was an audience
member, like watching that other potential movie
or whatever, like, ah, that would be kind of
boring. Like, I don't really want to see like
sort of him in jail for a while or whatever,
you know? So yeah. Okay. With stuff like that,
that derails the narrative that we're on completely.
Yeah. Yeah. That's a, it's a good point for sure.
Yeah. But that's all I got. I had to struggle
to find bad things about this movie. And I'm
happy to hear that since I love this movie so
much. I guess like it is pretty depressing. I
guess maybe somebody who wasn't really expecting
that, like I, you know, I feel like it gets,
again, I would put this in the good category,
but I feel like towards the end, it gets a little
bit into the territory of. There's this great
line. I wish I remembered it verbatim. But Jeff
Goldblum basically says, I was a human. Oh, no,
I was an insect who dreamed he was a human and
it was beautiful. But then the dream ended and
the insect awoke. I think the line is something
like that. My favorite line in the movie. Yeah,
it's really kind of brutally sad on, like, an
existential level. Like, are humans any better
than flies or insects? Or are we all just made
of, like, the same base impulses or whatever?
Like, it's a fascinating idea that I think horror
does really well. And I love that this movie
goes there. But it is pretty surprisingly bleak
and depressing. Right. So that's, like, you know,
this goes into the territory. Like, if it's not
your cup of tea, that's fine. Because not only
is it existentially depressing. It's gross. It's
got a lot of gross -out body horror, which we
love. It enhances the story we're telling, but
I could see if you're squeamish, there are some
rather squeamish moments in this film. Yeah,
it's not for the light -hearted. No. And I think...
Like, I can handle it, but man, I was taken aback
a little bit by some moments. Just how... how
honestly good the practical effects are. Yeah.
Yep. Oscar winning, uh, by Chris Wallace. I think
his name is the makeup effects. Um, yeah, really,
really great. The fly too. I know I brought it
up before. It's not a good movie, but it is an
extremely gory movie. So beware of that whenever
you do watch it. I'll get there at some point.
Um, so, so what, so what, let's move on to like
the downright campy. i got something in mind
but what do you have in mind something i was
like really silly and fun just can't be um you
know i i love the moment when uh he's in full
-on like transformation mode and his body's falling
apart and gina davis her character comes over
to his loft late in the film and he is trying
to eat a donut and he just vomits onto it And
it's really gross. And then he looks at her and
he's like, oh, that's disgusting, which is what
everybody's thinking, of course. It's such a
great way to break up the horror and the disgustingness
of that moment. I don't know. I wouldn't say
that's campy per se, but it definitely injects
some sort of silly humor into it, I guess. Oh,
my God. And it's so needed, too. Yeah. That's
a good thing about Goldblum's character. He keeps...
a sense of humor throughout, which again, alleviates
some of that existential depression. Yeah. Yeah,
for sure. You have to laugh because what else
are you going to do? Like, it's just a completely
miserable otherwise. So yeah, it's much better.
That was good. I just, I just keep going back
to where is he getting these baboons? Every time
you turn around, there's another baboon in the
laboratory. yeah you gotta feel for him yeah
i i would you know like there is like a tiny
bit of explanation because he works for this
research lab so maybe he's like getting them
through the lab but you would think at some point
they're like we're spending thousands of dollars
on these baboos like they would probably stop
approving that uh you know him using them for
his experiments and see actually if this movie
like we're you know it's so lean this is an example
of if it was a little bit longer we might have
a scene where he is picking up the baboon like
it explains the baboons you know yeah yeah i
would like to see that for sure yeah because
otherwise it comes off as you know really campy
and silly like whoa whoa whoa you don't just
go to the the pet store and pick up a baboon
jeff goldblum can apparently like they're not
dogs or rats he uses Like maybe in a way that
is kind of like a campy throwback to like old
mad scientist movies where they did have these
like strange sets where they just have like potions,
animals and everything everywhere, you know?
That's true. Chimpanzees. Sorry, what's that?
Chimpanzees in cages. Yeah, yeah, right. Exactly.
Which they do their experiments on. Like I feel
like for the most part, I think the remake of
The Fly does a really good job of sort of like
not being too ironic or like winking or anything
like that, you know? Little moments like that
where I think it gives props to its forerunners.
Yeah, and that's why I love film so much, film
history. When you consume so many movies, you
can see those hallmarks of an earlier era, maybe.
Not everyone will get, but certain people can
appreciate if they know the forerunners. Yeah.
Yeah, for sure. This is the diversion, but I
know you and I were talking about the remake
of The Blob recently. A good example of that,
too. I love the remake of The Blob way more than
I thought I would. It comments on the original
in some pretty cool ways. Yeah. I feel like as
I've been doing this series and just Camp Kaiju
in general, the 1980s, there was clearly a phase
where they wanted to remake 50s movies. Cause
you have this, the fly, the blob, the thing.
There was an invasion of the body snatchers in
the late seventies, but you can throw that in.
Yeah. It was just like, let's, let's remake our
favorite movies that we grew up on. But now that
we have like real effects to pull off, you know
what they were trying to do back then. Yeah.
And are maybe a little bit more willing to go
into like the dark subject matter that like,
I just sort of like hint at a little bit more,
you know? Right. Yeah, it's cool to see. And
I, you know, with the thing, I love John Carpenter.
What was the, sorry, you just mentioned another
remake, which I totally forget now. You mentioned,
oh, Envision of the Body Snatchers. Yeah. If
I remember right, that late 70s one was by Don
Siegel. I could be wrong about that, but he's
like a good action thriller suspense director.
So, you know, normally I'm like not into remakes
or sequels all that much like nowadays, but those
80s horror movies, like I, it's maybe my favorite.
category of movie. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really
fascinating time. I think in movie making. Yeah.
Well, my friend, is there anything else? I think
we should like give our final summation. You
know, I think this movie is a classic. I think
it stands the test of time because of these themes,
these universal themes, love, loss, aging, female
empowerment. surprisingly you know women's body
rights um i think it says a lot and still manages
to to um to wink a little bit at the the fun
cheesiness that it's inherently made of yeah
i totally agree um It's definitely its own thing,
while it is kind of like taking this sort of
well -known story and sort of envisioning what
would happen if this actually played out in human
terms, if a man became a fly. It's such a smart
movie. It's really, like you said before, visually
understated, but it builds this atmosphere of
dread so well. There's just a lot of blacks and
silvers and sort of muted colors. Great performances.
You know, I know that when this movie came out,
it was sort of read as an allegory for AIDS,
which I think is really interesting because it's
about in 86. And it is definitely about sort
of, you know, the breakdown that a human body
undergoes during disease. And that can extend
to any situation where, you know, a loved one
is going through a serious illness. So there's
so much to this movie. In lieu of rambling about
it more, I'll just say that it will always be
one of my favorite horror movies and it's a pleasure
to talk about. Excellent. Well, I can't wait
to talk about more. Let me know, like come October,
if you want to, if you want to get together for
cat people, I'd love to do that. And it's sequels.
Yeah, man. Thanks so much. Thank you. I look
forward to talking to you next time. All right.
Get out of here and I'll wrap up. All right.
See you later. Thank you. Okay. Bye. Bye. Wow.
And thank you all for hanging out with me and
Matt. We talked about The Fly, David Cronenberg's
1986 classic. Matt and I were both in accordance
on that one. It says so much universally that
I think just is as relevant today as it is in
the 80s. So do check that one out. If you see
any of the sequels, you know, hit me up and let
me know. Those are definitely on my to watch
list. In the meantime, next week, I will be chatting
about The Thing, John Carpenter's 1982 classic,
with a very special guest, a friend of mine from
the Mysterious Old Radio Listening Society, which
is an awesome podcast where they kind of do this
sort of format with old -timey radio, and specifically
horror radio. So my buddy there is very familiar
with The Thing and love crafty and horror. I'm
very excited to feature him on Camp Kaiju. So
thank you so much. Like, follow, engage. There's
a link to the merch in my bio. You can get this
shirt if you want. Not this one, but maybe another
one. And check us out on Letterboxd as well.
All right. Thanks, friends. Have a good night.
Have a great week. Please rate and review wherever
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Please check out campkaijupodcast .com for more
information. Camp Kaiju is recorded in Minneapolis,
St. Paul with Meanie's Mailbox music by Ben Cook
-Felts. Thank you, friends, and until next time,
stay campy. How does Brundlefly eat? Well, he
found out the hard and painful way that he's
very much the way a fly eats. His teeth are now
useless because although he can chew up solid
food, he can't digest it. Solid food. Hurts.
So, like a fly, a brundle fly breaks down solids
with a corrosive enzyme, playfully called vomit
drop. He regurgitates on his food, it liquefies,
and then he sucks it back up. Ready for a demonstration,
kids? Here goes. Oh, my God. My God.