WEBVTT

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But it's got to be Dr. Jeffrey Garth, right?

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The worst part of this movie. Yes. Boo. Boo.

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Boo. And the amount of screen time we spend on

00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:15.820
trying to tie Dr. Garth's bow tie. What's going

00:00:15.820 --> 00:00:21.039
on? I did not like that either. I didn't understand.

00:00:21.239 --> 00:00:23.719
It's like, what? This has to have some sort of

00:00:23.719 --> 00:00:28.000
relevance later. Yeah, it did. It kept going.

00:00:28.539 --> 00:00:47.700
Yes, very weird. Hello and welcome to Camp Kaiju

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Monster Movie Podcast. We're your hosts, Matt

00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:53.890
Levine and Vincent Hannum. And we are talking

00:00:53.890 --> 00:00:56.270
about all our favorite monster movies, the good,

00:00:56.329 --> 00:00:58.810
the bad, and the downright campy, and asking

00:00:58.810 --> 00:01:01.890
if they stand the test of time. Traditional kaiju

00:01:01.890 --> 00:01:04.730
creature features, space invaders, the supernatural,

00:01:05.010 --> 00:01:07.849
and everything in between. All strange beasts

00:01:07.849 --> 00:01:11.489
welcome here. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach

00:01:11.489 --> 00:01:13.609
Linder and the Zach Pack, powered by Coldwell

00:01:13.609 --> 00:01:16.930
Banker Realty. Your source for real estate, home

00:01:16.930 --> 00:01:19.170
rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients,

00:01:19.450 --> 00:01:22.180
and residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach

00:01:22.180 --> 00:01:24.900
Pack today for real estate services. Follow the

00:01:24.900 --> 00:01:27.560
Zach Pack on social media and contact the Zach

00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:30.500
Pack for investment opportunities. Link in the

00:01:30.500 --> 00:01:59.010
show notes. Look at me. What do you see in my

00:01:59.010 --> 00:02:04.790
eyes? Death. Do you like jewels, Lily? This is

00:02:04.790 --> 00:02:07.769
very old and very beautiful. Please don't come

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any closer. Her pulse is weak, Dr. Goth. Growing

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weaker. All your skill can't help her now. She's

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under a spell that can be broken only by me.

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Or death. I am Dracula's daughter. Hey Vincent,

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how you doing tonight? I'm excited to talk about

00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:04.240
this movie. We have Naomi on, which I'm always

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excited about. Yeah. Thank you for having me.

00:03:07.060 --> 00:03:11.099
Yeah. How are you doing? I'm doing great. I was

00:03:11.099 --> 00:03:13.759
super excited that you guys wanted me on this

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episode because I have never seen this movie

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and good friends show you good movies and that

00:03:19.099 --> 00:03:21.840
is what happens. So thank you for having me.

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Very happy to be here. Well, thank you as always

00:03:25.620 --> 00:03:27.740
for joining us. We really love having you on

00:03:27.740 --> 00:03:30.759
the show. Really appreciate your unique perspective

00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:33.319
on movies, just how many movies you've seen.

00:03:33.340 --> 00:03:35.280
It boggles the mind how many movies you watch.

00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:37.460
And always a pleasure to talk with you about

00:03:37.460 --> 00:03:40.240
movies. So thanks again for joining us. Of course,

00:03:40.340 --> 00:03:43.539
of course. Dracula's Daughter actually was my

00:03:43.539 --> 00:03:49.259
130th film that I've watched in 2025. So it was

00:03:49.259 --> 00:03:52.259
kind of satisfying to have a nice number on that

00:03:52.259 --> 00:03:57.060
one. That makes me think I'm going to check out

00:03:57.060 --> 00:04:01.800
my letterbox right now. And not the Camp Kaiju

00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:04.860
profile, shameless plug, but my personal one

00:04:04.860 --> 00:04:09.740
where I watched non -monster movies. This year,

00:04:09.819 --> 00:04:15.080
I've watched 21 movies. Well, that's reasonable.

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You know, 130 is just bonkers. And I'm aware

00:04:19.180 --> 00:04:22.019
of that. It's high even for me. I thought it

00:04:22.019 --> 00:04:25.319
would be higher, though. Yeah, January is cold

00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:29.259
and long and as is February. So, you know, you

00:04:29.259 --> 00:04:31.879
got to do something. And Vincent, you have a

00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:34.540
lot of reasons for only seeing 21 movies this

00:04:34.540 --> 00:04:36.660
year. You have a lot going on. So, you know,

00:04:36.660 --> 00:04:38.560
don't you shouldn't feel too bad about that.

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I feel terrible about it. Shame. I bring shame

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to my movie podcast. Well, it's something to

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work on, you know, but we all we all have things

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we strive for. Tonight on the episode, we're

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talking about Dracula's Daughter, like Naomi

00:04:55.290 --> 00:04:59.449
said, from 1936, direct sequel to the original

00:04:59.449 --> 00:05:03.410
Dracula from 1931. A lot to Dracula's Daughter,

00:05:03.470 --> 00:05:05.970
just a lot going on. Very complicated production

00:05:05.970 --> 00:05:09.889
backstory, lots of themes, lots of kind of groundbreaking,

00:05:10.069 --> 00:05:13.250
but, you know, questionable representations.

00:05:13.930 --> 00:05:17.350
So a lot to dive into. Before we get to that,

00:05:17.350 --> 00:05:19.069
though, I'm just going to cover our nuts and

00:05:19.069 --> 00:05:21.629
bolts real quick. Seems like a weird way to say

00:05:21.629 --> 00:05:26.649
it, but... Sorry. I think it's just the way that

00:05:26.649 --> 00:05:29.829
I said it. Anyway, thank you all for hanging

00:05:29.829 --> 00:05:32.350
out, friends. Please rate and review Camp Kaiju

00:05:32.350 --> 00:05:34.790
wherever you listen. You can also send us listener

00:05:34.790 --> 00:05:38.490
comments at campkaiju at gmail .com. On our Instagram

00:05:38.490 --> 00:05:41.689
page, at camp underscore kaiju is another way

00:05:41.689 --> 00:05:43.990
that you can leave us your comments. If you'd

00:05:43.990 --> 00:05:45.769
like to be a featured voice on the show, give

00:05:45.769 --> 00:05:52.140
us a call and leave a voicemail at 612... telling

00:05:52.140 --> 00:05:54.600
us about your favorite monster movies and memories.

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Finally, please check out our website, campkaijupodcast

00:05:58.459 --> 00:06:02.519
.com, for more reviews and special content. Merch

00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:05.720
is also available at campkaiju .threadless .com.

00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:08.180
I believe we have a new -ish t -shirt, don't

00:06:08.180 --> 00:06:12.319
we, Vincent? New -ish at this point, yes. And

00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.139
in fact, we have some people snapping it up already.

00:06:15.769 --> 00:06:19.829
If you are a fan of Nick Adams and or classic

00:06:19.829 --> 00:06:22.610
Godzilla invasion of Astro Monster type stuff,

00:06:22.810 --> 00:06:28.569
join the official unofficial Nick Adams fan club

00:06:28.569 --> 00:06:32.230
with your Camp Kaiju t -shirt, which features

00:06:32.230 --> 00:06:36.250
the face of Nick Adams on your Nick Adams t -shirt.

00:06:38.829 --> 00:06:41.209
Does it feature his voice as well? Does it just

00:06:41.209 --> 00:06:44.040
like randomly talk every once in a while? We

00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:47.279
don't have enough patrons to fulfill that wish,

00:06:47.339 --> 00:06:52.180
sadly. Someday, perhaps. On that subject, become

00:06:52.180 --> 00:06:55.620
a patron. You can do so at patreon .com slash

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campkaiju. You'll get discounts, priority comments,

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and access to any live events. Thank you to all

00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:04.680
of our current patrons, Jason, Chris, Sean, Peggy,

00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:07.459
and our anonymous patron. We really do appreciate

00:07:07.459 --> 00:07:10.569
you very much. Thank you again. One last thing

00:07:10.569 --> 00:07:13.730
to mention, the three of us, all three of us,

00:07:13.750 --> 00:07:16.430
are going to be doing trivia in early May. And

00:07:16.430 --> 00:07:19.029
Naomi, this is kind of your trivia show that

00:07:19.029 --> 00:07:21.529
Vincent and I are crashing just for one session

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in May. Do you want to talk about trivia at all

00:07:24.730 --> 00:07:28.370
in the upcoming Hangouts? Yeah, I'm honestly

00:07:28.370 --> 00:07:32.029
super excited. I do trivia the first Monday of

00:07:32.029 --> 00:07:34.889
every month at an Indeed brewery in the Ox Taproom.

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It's called Film Friends and it's free to play.

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It's an entirely self -produced event. So I write

00:07:41.540 --> 00:07:44.899
all the questions myself and a rotating guest

00:07:44.899 --> 00:07:47.319
co -host. Usually it's just one, but when you

00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:49.879
guys come on, it'll be two, which I'm super excited

00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:53.019
to kind of see what that dynamics like and share

00:07:53.019 --> 00:07:56.600
you guys' perspective and taste with our regulars

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and anyone else new that comes by. If people

00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:01.480
want to kind of keep up on it, we have a Facebook

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page. Just look up Film Friends Movie Trivia

00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:08.040
on Facebook or follow me on Instagram. But yeah,

00:08:08.139 --> 00:08:10.120
it's a great time. People should come out. The

00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:13.759
prizes are wonderful. You get tickets from the

00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:16.000
Trilon, tickets from the Heights Theater, and

00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.720
then usually a nice gift card from Indeed Brewery.

00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:22.060
So it's super fun to play and a great way to

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build community around a shared love of film.

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And we'll put links to... film friends and your

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Instagram in the show notes. And at this time,

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I just got to say, if you are a patron of Camp

00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:39.720
Kaiju, you are entitled to one VIP drink, alcoholic

00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:42.899
or non -alcoholic. Me and Matt, we're going to,

00:08:42.899 --> 00:08:45.139
you know, we'll buy you a drink that's coming

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from our Patreon coffers as a perk for our supporters

00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:54.539
who we really appreciate. So if you're on the

00:08:54.539 --> 00:08:57.059
fence, if you're out there thinking. Ooh, is

00:08:57.059 --> 00:08:59.799
this something I really want to do? Go for it.

00:08:59.860 --> 00:09:03.039
Join the club over at Patreon. Even if you're

00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:06.620
not local, we're sending out free gifts all the

00:09:06.620 --> 00:09:10.940
time. Stickers, discounts on shirts, you name

00:09:10.940 --> 00:09:16.559
it. Me and Matt, you know, we want to support

00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:20.860
those who support us. So check it out. Cool.

00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:23.779
Yeah, it sounds good. It'll be fun to meet some

00:09:23.779 --> 00:09:26.940
Camp Pride you peeps in person. I really hope

00:09:26.940 --> 00:09:29.980
we get some because looking at our analytics

00:09:29.980 --> 00:09:34.679
on our podcasting back end here, a majority of

00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:37.539
our listeners are local. So we know you're out

00:09:37.539 --> 00:09:41.299
there. Come out and say hi. Come hang out. Be

00:09:41.299 --> 00:09:45.360
a film friend. Yeah, film friends. And, you know,

00:09:45.379 --> 00:09:47.080
if you become a patron, get a free drink out

00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:50.110
of it. It's win win. Yeah. Sounds like a good

00:09:50.110 --> 00:09:54.149
deal. Yeah. I personally can't wait. Our shared

00:09:54.149 --> 00:09:56.850
trivia session is going to be Monday, May 5th.

00:09:56.870 --> 00:09:59.549
But Naomi's trivia is the first Monday of every

00:09:59.549 --> 00:10:02.350
month at Indeed Brewing. So yeah, should be a

00:10:02.350 --> 00:10:04.929
good time. Yeah. Yeah. Can't wait to have you

00:10:04.929 --> 00:10:08.529
guys. Thank you. Thank you again. As usual on

00:10:08.529 --> 00:10:10.870
Camp Kaiju, we always try to highlight a monster

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movie that came out around this time in monster

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movie history. I have some listed on our Google

00:10:16.769 --> 00:10:19.649
Doc here. Did any of those movies jump out at

00:10:19.649 --> 00:10:21.490
you guys or were there any others that you wanted

00:10:21.490 --> 00:10:26.970
to call out? There are so many. I mean, oh man,

00:10:27.129 --> 00:10:31.429
Trilogy of Terror. It's a classic and a couple

00:10:31.429 --> 00:10:33.909
that I've never heard of, but I want to see immediately.

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The Mangler, 95 flick about a haunted laundry

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machine. You know, I'm a sucker for killer machine

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movies. I'm there for it. I read that plot synopsis

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and I was like, how I have not already seen this

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movie. This sounds incredible. There's another

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one. Sorry, go ahead. No, you go ahead. Well,

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I was just going to say on the subject of really

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crazy sounding plot synopses that I haven't for

00:11:03.419 --> 00:11:05.379
movies that I haven't seen. There's a movie called

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Bug from 1975. Not the William Friedkin one from

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the 2000s, which is also very good. But the one

00:11:11.590 --> 00:11:14.809
from 1975 is about mutant cockroaches that can

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start fires, which is an amazing idea for a movie.

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So that has skyrocketed to the top of my must

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-watch list. I just wanted to put that out there.

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Wow. That sounds good. When I'm looking at this

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list, The Descent pops out for me. I just feel

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like there should be more horror movies than

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caves. It's really scary. There's a lot of possibilities.

00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:40.580
for creatures, for whatever. And I really like

00:11:40.580 --> 00:11:42.759
the main character, Sarah, in that I think she's

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a really good final girl. And she shows a lot

00:11:45.419 --> 00:11:49.100
of strength and humanity and not some of the

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purity kind of things that go along with other

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final girls. So for me, it's The Descent. Love

00:11:54.899 --> 00:11:58.019
that one. Agreed. That is an incredible movie.

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Really scary, but also very complex and believable

00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:03.679
characters. There's just more of an emotional

00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:05.580
charge to that movie than I think you sometimes

00:12:05.580 --> 00:12:08.799
get with horror movies. Totally. And it's sort

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of refreshing to see I cannot think of any men

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in that cast. They're either hardly any or absolutely

00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:18.679
none. I'll have to check. But so that's kind

00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:21.179
of a fun part of it, too. Sort of different dynamic

00:12:21.179 --> 00:12:24.860
there. Cool. Definitely. I was actually thinking

00:12:24.860 --> 00:12:26.600
with Dracula's daughter, this movie might be

00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:28.340
better if there were just no men in the cast

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at all. And it's like only, you know, Dracula's

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daughter and like the other female characters.

00:12:33.940 --> 00:12:35.919
But we'll we'll talk about that in a little bit

00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.440
here. I think totally. Yeah, I mean, I was thinking

00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:41.740
it would be better if like Dana Carvey was playing

00:12:41.740 --> 00:12:45.519
Garth in this movie. The other the other cinematic

00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:50.580
Garth that I know about now. I would have liked

00:12:50.580 --> 00:12:54.879
him a lot more if it was. Garth Algar from Aurora,

00:12:55.059 --> 00:12:59.519
Illinois. Yeah. Yeah, Garth Algar is way more

00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:01.759
charming than Dr. Jeffrey Garth in this movie.

00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:06.139
Really insufferable character, but we'll get

00:13:06.139 --> 00:13:09.139
to that soon. Sorry, didn't mean to jump the

00:13:09.139 --> 00:13:12.220
gun there. No, I think we're all in agreement

00:13:12.220 --> 00:13:14.740
on that. Hey, I'm just glad that somebody else

00:13:14.740 --> 00:13:17.320
thought of the other Garth when seeing that.

00:13:17.419 --> 00:13:21.720
Oh, yeah. Not just me. The true Garth. Yeah.

00:13:23.289 --> 00:13:25.909
Just real quick, I wanted to shout out one upcoming

00:13:25.909 --> 00:13:29.389
release called In the Lost Lands. It's directed

00:13:29.389 --> 00:13:32.029
by Paul W .S. Anderson, who has a pretty decent

00:13:32.029 --> 00:13:35.070
monster movie resume to his name. He did Event

00:13:35.070 --> 00:13:38.169
Horizon, Alien vs. Predator, a lot of other ones

00:13:38.169 --> 00:13:40.389
too that I can't really remember right now. But

00:13:40.389 --> 00:13:43.169
it has Mia Jovovich in it. She plays like a sorceress

00:13:43.169 --> 00:13:46.470
in an ancient land where people can like shapeshift

00:13:46.470 --> 00:13:48.990
into werewolves. So this is another movie where

00:13:48.990 --> 00:13:51.330
I'm like, I know nothing about this, but the

00:13:51.330 --> 00:13:53.590
synopsis itself, I have to see it. It sounds

00:13:53.590 --> 00:13:56.690
incredible. Wow. It's based on a short story

00:13:56.690 --> 00:14:00.009
by George R .R. Martin. I did not know that,

00:14:00.129 --> 00:14:05.049
actually. Wow. This? Yeah. Wow. And then real

00:14:05.049 --> 00:14:06.990
quick before we dive into our movie for the night,

00:14:07.070 --> 00:14:09.769
a couple of things coming up on Camp Kaiju. On

00:14:09.769 --> 00:14:11.669
our next episode, we'll be talking about Godzilla

00:14:11.669 --> 00:14:14.230
vs. Mothra, which I'm very excited about, getting

00:14:14.230 --> 00:14:16.919
back into some... classic kaiju although that

00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:18.679
one's from the 90s i think is that right yeah

00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:22.419
right it's from 92 not to be confused with mothra

00:14:22.419 --> 00:14:27.279
versus godzilla from the early 60s the pleasure

00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:31.440
and sometimes the difficulty of watching all

00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:33.120
these movies is just keeping all them straight

00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.659
the titles are so interchangeable sometimes but

00:14:35.659 --> 00:14:38.440
i like all the early 90s godzilla movies that

00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:40.559
we've seen really excited for that one yeah me

00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:42.769
too And then the following episode, we'll be

00:14:42.769 --> 00:14:45.389
talking about The Island of Dr. Moreau, a notorious

00:14:45.389 --> 00:14:48.309
flop, maybe the most disastrous production in

00:14:48.309 --> 00:14:50.549
Hollywood history. Frank Olson is going to be

00:14:50.549 --> 00:14:52.809
joining us for that episode. I've never seen

00:14:52.809 --> 00:14:55.429
it, always wanted to, and cannot wait to talk

00:14:55.429 --> 00:14:57.850
about that. Same. I can't wait to listen to that

00:14:57.850 --> 00:15:16.860
episode. I am Dracula. A moment ago, I stumbled

00:15:16.860 --> 00:15:21.840
upon a most amazing phenomenon. Something so

00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:28.360
incredible, I mistrust my own judgment. Look.

00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:35.360
Dracula. The very mention of the name brings

00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.700
to mind things so evil, so fantastic, so degrading.

00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.299
You wonder if it isn't all a dream, a nightmare.

00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:54.419
Rats. Rats. Rats. Thousands. Millions of them.

00:15:54.960 --> 00:16:00.639
But no, this is no dream. This is Dracula. The

00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:04.320
original terrifying story of a maniac and a man

00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:07.600
who lived after death, lived on human blood.

00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:11.620
took the form of a vampire bat, and lured innocent

00:16:11.620 --> 00:16:16.220
girls to a fate truly worse than death. Dracula?

00:16:17.980 --> 00:16:21.820
What's he done to you, dearie? Tell me. He came

00:16:21.820 --> 00:16:26.860
to me. He opened a stain in his arm, and he made

00:16:26.860 --> 00:17:18.609
me drink. When this dead hand moves, the monster

00:17:18.609 --> 00:17:22.230
created by a man they called mad is turned loose

00:17:22.230 --> 00:17:30.470
to strike terror into the hearts of men. To shock

00:17:30.470 --> 00:17:41.829
women into uncontrolled hysteria. To prey upon

00:17:41.829 --> 00:17:45.029
the innocence of children. This is the story

00:17:45.029 --> 00:17:48.650
you've heard about, talked about. The spine -tingling,

00:17:48.670 --> 00:17:51.109
blood -chilling story that stunned your emotions.

00:17:52.569 --> 00:18:42.460
Frankenstein. Don't touch that! was killed? Yes.

00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:45.640
Find something? Animal tracks. Whoever is bitten

00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:49.740
by a werewolf and lives becomes a werewolf himself.

00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:53.180
Oh, don't hand me that. You're just wasting your

00:18:53.180 --> 00:18:58.660
time. The wolf bit you, didn't he? Yeah. Yeah,

00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:01.000
he did. You wouldn't want to run away with a

00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.279
murderer, would you? Oh, Larry, you're not. You

00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:08.519
know you're not. I killed Baylor. I killed Richardson.

00:19:09.390 --> 00:19:11.549
If I stay here any longer, you can't tell who'll

00:19:11.549 --> 00:19:38.369
be next. Tonight, though, we are here to talk

00:19:38.369 --> 00:19:41.730
about Dracula's Daughter from 1936. This, like

00:19:41.730 --> 00:19:43.630
I said before, is a direct sequel to Dracula,

00:19:43.869 --> 00:19:45.690
although there were five years in between the

00:19:45.690 --> 00:19:48.569
two movies. What are your personal histories

00:19:48.569 --> 00:19:53.630
with this movie? For both of you. I... I'm sorry.

00:19:54.029 --> 00:19:59.130
No, I'm sorry. Go ahead. I'll call on people

00:19:59.130 --> 00:20:00.930
from now on. Welcome to the show. It happens.

00:20:03.750 --> 00:20:08.039
My... I love talking about classic universal

00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:11.359
monster movies. I grew up on this stuff before

00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:14.000
I even have like memories of watching movies.

00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:16.819
I was always watching classic universal flicks.

00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:22.059
However, I somehow never even knew about this

00:20:22.059 --> 00:20:25.940
movie until just a few years ago. Cause like

00:20:25.940 --> 00:20:29.880
I'd always seen Bela Lugosi's Dracula, but it,

00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.980
but the sequel, the direct sequel never crossed

00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:36.839
my mind. Then I watched it and I knew I started

00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:40.839
to get into like the reputation of the film with

00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:45.099
its queer subtext and readings, which I'll say

00:20:45.099 --> 00:20:47.519
more about in a little bit, but I've seen it

00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:51.640
twice since then. Sometimes I watch it and I

00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:53.500
really love it. I'm like, this is one of the

00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:56.339
best classic universal monster movies. And then

00:20:56.339 --> 00:20:59.640
sometimes I watch it and I'm like, eh, I could,

00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.319
I could, I, you know, I really mixed feelings.

00:21:04.009 --> 00:21:07.890
Upon recent rewatch, I'm back into really appreciating

00:21:07.890 --> 00:21:11.250
this movie again, despite the criticisms that

00:21:11.250 --> 00:21:15.950
I do have. What about you, Naomi? What's your

00:21:15.950 --> 00:21:18.470
history with this film? I had no history with

00:21:18.470 --> 00:21:22.349
this film. I had heard about it, but I'm by no

00:21:22.349 --> 00:21:25.990
means like a universal monster scholar or have

00:21:25.990 --> 00:21:28.730
seen all of them or, you know, a few have crossed

00:21:28.730 --> 00:21:30.630
my path. Like I've seen the original Dracula.

00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:33.640
I've seen Wolfman. I've seen, you know, a few

00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:36.779
other ones. But it was honestly such a pleasure

00:21:36.779 --> 00:21:38.960
to watch this. I saw it last night for the first

00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:40.720
time and then I actually watched it again today

00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:42.779
because I didn't realize it was so short. And

00:21:42.779 --> 00:21:44.619
I was like, well, you know, let me see that again.

00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:48.319
Let's see that again. And it was great. I was

00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:51.940
surprised how deeply psychological it was and,

00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:56.519
you know, how such an old movie could be about

00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:00.160
like such big things. internal horror instead

00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.000
of external which seems more like a typical of

00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:09.720
monster movies yeah yeah similar for me i had

00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:11.779
never really heard about this movie until maybe

00:22:11.779 --> 00:22:13.980
like a year ago and i was just researching other

00:22:13.980 --> 00:22:16.380
classic universal horror movies from the 30s

00:22:16.380 --> 00:22:19.140
that i hadn't seen yet and you know i think in

00:22:19.140 --> 00:22:22.200
some circles this movie is very well known and

00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:25.279
highly discussed But, you know, in other circles,

00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:26.839
like, I think, like, maybe the average horror

00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:29.059
movie fan might not know about this, even though

00:22:29.059 --> 00:22:31.119
there's the Dracula pedigree, there's the Universal

00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:35.740
sort of studio backing. So, yeah, I was excited

00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:39.079
to see it. I think, like, Vincent, you've pointed

00:22:39.079 --> 00:22:40.799
out that I like this word a lot, but it's very

00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:42.759
messy. There's a lot to, like, pick apart and

00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:45.180
kind of dive into in this movie, which is, like,

00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:47.299
my favorite kind of film. But there are definitely

00:22:47.299 --> 00:22:49.940
flaws to it, which we'll talk about shortly here.

00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:54.549
Yeah, and I just want to say... You know, like,

00:22:54.609 --> 00:22:57.150
I don't think you can talk about this movie without

00:22:57.150 --> 00:23:02.009
unpacking the queer readings of the film. And

00:23:02.009 --> 00:23:05.049
I just, like, for listeners, I just want to be

00:23:05.049 --> 00:23:09.029
clear that I, in whatever I, whatever takes I

00:23:09.029 --> 00:23:12.049
have of this film and the characters, I am by

00:23:12.049 --> 00:23:14.789
no means going to interpret the queer experience

00:23:14.789 --> 00:23:19.369
from, like, me, Vincent Hannum. I'll try to be

00:23:19.369 --> 00:23:22.390
very judicious in just like reading other people's

00:23:22.390 --> 00:23:26.049
quotes and referencing other critics when we

00:23:26.049 --> 00:23:31.130
get into some of those thematic messages of the

00:23:31.130 --> 00:23:34.890
film. Same. That's a very important, you know,

00:23:34.910 --> 00:23:37.950
prologue, I guess, thing to say up front. Yeah,

00:23:37.970 --> 00:23:39.869
I mean, we'll quote some other critics' work.

00:23:40.009 --> 00:23:42.710
But, you know, just speaking for myself, I don't

00:23:42.710 --> 00:23:47.230
come from a LGBTQ background. So, you know, I'll...

00:23:47.719 --> 00:23:49.880
certainly give my perspective on the film and

00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:52.319
reference other critics, but you know, for other

00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:54.299
people out there, please let us know what you

00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:56.000
think about this movie. If you've seen it, maybe

00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.200
this will inspire you to see it and let us know

00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:01.240
what you think. I think that's thoughtful. Those

00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:04.559
distinctions are good. You know, I, I definitely

00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:06.980
wanted to be careful how I talk about this too,

00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:12.319
but I would say. Yeah, the way you guys are kind

00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:14.359
of approaching it, you know, kind of talking,

00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:17.180
you know, quoting other people and so forth is

00:24:17.180 --> 00:24:20.059
good. I could see it as a woman. I think that

00:24:20.059 --> 00:24:22.539
gives me a somewhat a perspective on it, just

00:24:22.539 --> 00:24:26.359
the dynamics you see between characters. And

00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:29.740
without getting like too personal into my sexuality

00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:32.579
or my identity, I do consider myself a queer

00:24:32.579 --> 00:24:37.279
person. Maybe not in the same way she is. But

00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:40.769
yeah, so I think I could. offer some thoughtful

00:24:40.769 --> 00:24:44.809
perspective on it. Absolutely. And yeah, we'll

00:24:44.809 --> 00:24:47.109
all bring our perspective to it. And you know,

00:24:47.150 --> 00:24:48.930
this is why I love movies like this, because

00:24:48.930 --> 00:24:51.730
any viewer probably will have a different response

00:24:51.730 --> 00:24:55.069
and reaction to it. So yeah, a lot to talk about.

00:24:55.769 --> 00:24:58.789
First, though, we're going to talk about the

00:24:58.789 --> 00:25:00.829
crew of the film before we get into the really

00:25:00.829 --> 00:25:03.349
fascinating meat and potatoes of it. We'll talk

00:25:03.349 --> 00:25:06.049
about who was behind the scenes. I'll read about

00:25:06.049 --> 00:25:09.700
Lambert Hillier, the director. He was mostly

00:25:09.700 --> 00:25:12.400
a director for hire. He began in the silent era.

00:25:12.819 --> 00:25:17.200
Silent era? He was known for his work on westerns.

00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:19.039
Because, of course, at this time, if you were

00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:22.079
working in Hollywood, you were typecast and pigeonholed

00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:25.259
into your genre of choice. But he did branch

00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:29.140
out into other genres. Dracula's Daughter being

00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:33.119
a great example of a not western. And he also

00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.079
directed the sci -fi film The Invisible Ray with

00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:40.470
Boris Karloff. And this is fun. In 1943, he directed

00:25:40.470 --> 00:25:44.549
the 15 -part Batman serial that later influenced

00:25:44.549 --> 00:25:50.630
the Adam West TV show in the 60s. So yeah, that's

00:25:50.630 --> 00:25:53.609
Lambert Hillier. It's a pretty cool background.

00:25:53.690 --> 00:25:55.369
He definitely seems like a director for hire,

00:25:55.509 --> 00:25:57.130
but I don't really mean that as a criticism.

00:25:57.289 --> 00:25:59.549
Like, you know, in the studio era, there were

00:25:59.549 --> 00:26:02.400
so many... So many directors who just kind of

00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:04.220
were hired to work on whatever film they were

00:26:04.220 --> 00:26:06.019
forced to direct, but still kind of injected

00:26:06.019 --> 00:26:08.740
a lot of style, humor, entertainment, you know,

00:26:08.740 --> 00:26:11.980
a lot of personality into it. So I'm not necessarily

00:26:11.980 --> 00:26:15.160
saying that's true of Dracula's Daughter or Lambert

00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:17.900
Hillier's work on this movie, but he directed

00:26:17.900 --> 00:26:21.420
some fun stuff for sure. There was also a very

00:26:21.420 --> 00:26:24.460
complicated screenplay process for this movie,

00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:27.200
which I will try to convey as quickly as possible,

00:26:27.259 --> 00:26:30.539
but we'll see how that goes. The only credited

00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:33.019
screenwriter on the film is Garrett Fort, who

00:26:33.019 --> 00:26:34.799
was well known for writing horror screenplays

00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:37.539
in the 1930s. He either wrote the screenplay

00:26:37.539 --> 00:26:41.079
or contributed work on Dracula, Frankenstein,

00:26:41.099 --> 00:26:44.160
Island of Lost Souls, The Invisible Man, and

00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:47.240
The Devil Doll, which is kind of like a snapshot

00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:49.259
of some of the most famous horror movies of the

00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:52.599
decade. So definitely a well -known horror writer

00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.759
from that era, Garrett Fort. However, six other

00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:57.559
writers were also credited with contributing

00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:01.380
outlines, treatments, and early screenplay drafts.

00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:05.619
One of those writers was John Balderston, who

00:27:05.619 --> 00:27:07.759
had contributed work to the screenplays for Dracula

00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:11.079
and Frankenstein alongside Garrett Fort. Balderson

00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:13.440
was a playwright and started off as a journalist.

00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:16.319
He had adapted a stage version of Dracula for

00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:20.140
the American stage in 1927. That's actually the

00:27:20.140 --> 00:27:23.099
stage version that made Bela Lugosi a star because

00:27:23.099 --> 00:27:25.720
he was in that theatrical version of Dracula.

00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:28.799
Balderson also wrote the screenplay for The Mummy,

00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:31.119
an early draft of The Invisible Man that was

00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:33.700
not used. And he contributed to the stories of

00:27:33.700 --> 00:27:36.559
Bride of Frankenstein and co -wrote Mad Love,

00:27:36.700 --> 00:27:39.559
starring Peter Lorre. Peter is still stuck in

00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:41.500
the broom closet downstairs. Maybe we can ask

00:27:41.500 --> 00:27:43.420
him about that if he's ever met this guy before.

00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:48.160
I'll send a message down with tonight's bucket

00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:51.200
of fish heads. Sounds good. It'll be at the very

00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:54.660
bottom after he eats all the fish heads. Matt,

00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:56.700
I don't have the notes pulled up right in front

00:27:56.700 --> 00:28:00.099
of me, but do you have information about David

00:28:00.099 --> 00:28:03.240
L. Selznick and his workings with Baldristen

00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.779
on the initial earliest version of this script?

00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:09.099
Yeah, I kind of saved that for the production

00:28:09.099 --> 00:28:11.059
backstory section, but we can talk about that

00:28:11.059 --> 00:28:13.640
now if you prefer. No, we can save it. Okay.

00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:16.119
We'll save it. A little foreshadowing. Yeah,

00:28:16.180 --> 00:28:20.180
yeah. Yeah, David O. Selznick will make an appearance

00:28:20.180 --> 00:28:22.599
in this very convoluted production backstory

00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:25.680
for this movie. That tracks. Yeah. Get him in

00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.400
there. You're right. He was seemingly involved

00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:31.740
in like 90 % of all American movies in the 30s,

00:28:31.740 --> 00:28:36.509
so why not Dracula's daughter? Kind of to Vincent's

00:28:36.509 --> 00:28:40.470
point, Balderson did write an early draft of

00:28:40.470 --> 00:28:42.789
a screenplay for Dracula's Daughter when the

00:28:42.789 --> 00:28:45.130
rights were owned by MGM and maybe David O. Salzman

00:28:45.130 --> 00:28:47.410
was going to produce the movie. Balderson's script

00:28:47.410 --> 00:28:50.009
was deemed so illicit it would never get past

00:28:50.009 --> 00:28:52.589
the censors. That always is kind of music to

00:28:52.589 --> 00:28:56.630
my ears when I hear that. Did you read what was

00:28:56.630 --> 00:28:59.690
involved in that early script? Yes. And again,

00:28:59.769 --> 00:29:01.750
I saved some of that for later in the Google

00:29:01.750 --> 00:29:05.759
Doc here. Is that all right? Sure. What intrigue?

00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:08.880
I know, I can't wait. There might be a little

00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:14.019
S &M involved, so stay tuned. I'll just real

00:29:14.019 --> 00:29:15.960
quickly go through some of the other writers

00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:18.710
that were involved with the screenplay. Kurt

00:29:18.710 --> 00:29:20.789
Newman contributed a short treatment that was

00:29:20.789 --> 00:29:23.230
not used. Newman would go on to be a celebrated

00:29:23.230 --> 00:29:25.630
sci -fi writer and director in the 50s, making

00:29:25.630 --> 00:29:29.509
such movies as The Fly, Rocketship XM, Kronos,

00:29:29.509 --> 00:29:32.730
and She -Devil. So he would kind of rise to prominence

00:29:32.730 --> 00:29:34.849
a couple decades later, but was still involved

00:29:34.849 --> 00:29:38.390
in a lot of screenplays in the 1930s. Another

00:29:38.390 --> 00:29:40.910
writer, R .C. Sheriff, which is a great name.

00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:43.299
wrote another early draft that was rejected.

00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:45.579
Sheriff also wrote the screenplay or co -wrote

00:29:45.579 --> 00:29:47.799
the screenplay for The Invisible Man and other

00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:50.059
celebrated films like Goodbye, Mr. Chips and

00:29:50.059 --> 00:29:53.319
Odd Man Out. So just a lot of kind of well -known

00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:56.140
writer names involved with this project, including

00:29:56.140 --> 00:29:59.839
Bram Stoker himself. He is the only other writer

00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:02.200
credited in the opening credits for Dracula's

00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:04.819
Daughter, supposedly for providing the source

00:30:04.819 --> 00:30:07.440
of the film, a short story called Dracula's Guest

00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.009
from 1914. There's some controversy whether that

00:30:11.009 --> 00:30:14.329
story was the excised first chapter of the novel

00:30:14.329 --> 00:30:17.009
Dracula, an early draft of a scene that was not

00:30:17.009 --> 00:30:19.329
used in the novel, or a totally separate story

00:30:19.329 --> 00:30:22.130
that Bram Stoker wrote. This is all kind of irrelevant

00:30:22.130 --> 00:30:23.829
because it has nothing to do with the movie at

00:30:23.829 --> 00:30:26.190
all. I do think it's funny that Bram Stoker's

00:30:26.190 --> 00:30:28.609
name is in the opening credits, but the film

00:30:28.609 --> 00:30:31.410
is nothing at all like the short story. So one

00:30:31.410 --> 00:30:33.630
of many cases of Hollywood giving credit to an

00:30:33.630 --> 00:30:36.690
artist who maybe had a limited impact on the

00:30:36.690 --> 00:30:39.980
film itself. That's fantastic, Matt. You are

00:30:39.980 --> 00:30:44.519
always so meticulous in your notes. I appreciate

00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:49.000
it. Thank you. So just going back to RC Sheriff,

00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:52.359
he and James Whale were buddies. They worked

00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:55.319
together on Journey's End, which was a stage

00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:58.700
play that Sheriff wrote starring Colin Clive

00:30:58.700 --> 00:31:02.680
over in England. So these guys come over to Hollywood

00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:05.599
and start making movies at Universal, The Invisible

00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:08.839
Man being another collaboration. James Whale

00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:13.059
was originally slated to direct Dracula's Daughter.

00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:15.839
He had just come off the success of Bride of

00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:20.079
Frankenstein. And for me, this is one of the

00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:23.539
greatest cases of what if. What if James Whale,

00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:28.099
no, nothing against Lambert Hillier, but James

00:31:28.099 --> 00:31:32.019
Whale has such a strong visual style. And as

00:31:32.019 --> 00:31:38.299
a queer director himself, you know, I've heard

00:31:38.299 --> 00:31:42.759
arguments that, you know, maybe this was a story

00:31:42.759 --> 00:31:47.440
more apt for him to tell than someone else. So

00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:50.940
all that said, James Whale absolutely did not

00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:56.500
want to direct this movie. In fact, he tried.

00:31:57.400 --> 00:32:01.730
Again, lots of sources I'll cite later. There

00:32:01.730 --> 00:32:04.029
was there's rumors that he wanted R .C. Sheriff

00:32:04.029 --> 00:32:06.750
to continue turning in drafts that would be intentionally

00:32:06.750 --> 00:32:10.549
rejected by the censor boards because he's like,

00:32:10.650 --> 00:32:13.849
R .C., I don't want to do this movie. He wanted

00:32:13.849 --> 00:32:16.690
to direct Showboat, a big, extravagant musical,

00:32:16.930 --> 00:32:20.609
and he didn't want to be pigeonholed into the

00:32:20.609 --> 00:32:23.829
horror film genre. And it worked. And James Whale

00:32:23.829 --> 00:32:32.200
ultimately passed on the film. Dracula's daughter.

00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:36.619
Now, the producers at Universal Studios at this

00:32:36.619 --> 00:32:40.400
time, I love Hollywood history and especially

00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:43.720
Universal Studios, one of the founding major

00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:48.559
studios of Hollywood. And they were founded by

00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:51.240
a family called the Lemleys. You had Carl Lemley

00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:57.279
Sr. and his son, Jr. Carl Lemley Sr. hated horror

00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:01.289
movies. He thought they were in poor taste. However,

00:33:01.289 --> 00:33:05.609
he had given like this horror picture producing

00:33:05.609 --> 00:33:09.509
job to his son, Carl, who was like a man about

00:33:09.509 --> 00:33:13.170
town. He was very flashy. He liked to be a bigwig.

00:33:13.230 --> 00:33:15.769
And, you know, he's only in his 20s when he produced

00:33:15.769 --> 00:33:21.130
Dracula and Frankenstein in 31. And of course,

00:33:21.130 --> 00:33:26.089
those were huge financial hits. And his father,

00:33:26.190 --> 00:33:30.049
senior, said, OK, fine. Let's make horror movies.

00:33:30.609 --> 00:33:36.609
However, by 1936, Carl Laemmle, senior, and I

00:33:36.609 --> 00:33:38.450
guess junior, but I think it was the senior,

00:33:38.609 --> 00:33:45.490
he had borrowed $1 million to help pay for the

00:33:45.490 --> 00:33:49.430
studio from a company called Standard Capital

00:33:49.430 --> 00:33:56.450
Corporation. And at the end of 1936, after Dracula's

00:33:56.450 --> 00:33:59.509
Daughter had been released, The Lemleys could

00:33:59.509 --> 00:34:03.109
not pay that money back. And subsequently, they

00:34:03.109 --> 00:34:06.210
lost control of the studio to this corporation.

00:34:07.150 --> 00:34:11.449
And with the Lemleys out, the new people in charge

00:34:11.449 --> 00:34:14.730
did not want to finance horror movies anymore.

00:34:15.190 --> 00:34:18.210
And you wouldn't see another horror movie from

00:34:18.210 --> 00:34:22.090
Universal or really other major studios until

00:34:22.090 --> 00:34:25.530
1939 with Son of Frankenstein. So there was a

00:34:25.530 --> 00:34:30.210
real pause. On the whole genre for a number of

00:34:30.210 --> 00:34:34.150
years as a result of this. Yeah, that's crazy.

00:34:34.409 --> 00:34:36.329
Yeah, I didn't know about any of that stuff.

00:34:36.949 --> 00:34:39.130
It makes me wonder if, you know, like the depression

00:34:39.130 --> 00:34:42.210
had anything to do with the inability to for

00:34:42.210 --> 00:34:45.349
him to pay back or or that family to to make

00:34:45.349 --> 00:34:48.170
good on that. So I was thinking about that with

00:34:48.170 --> 00:34:51.170
with Dracula's daughter. You know, it came out

00:34:51.170 --> 00:34:53.570
like during the depression and it made me wonder

00:34:53.570 --> 00:34:56.750
like like what kind of economic factors went

00:34:56.750 --> 00:34:59.289
into. making the movie and how it was received

00:34:59.289 --> 00:35:02.679
you know when it came out Yeah. And I was kind

00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:04.960
of wondering too, if the start of the production

00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.199
code kind of like put a damper on horror movies

00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.079
a little bit too, because like in the early part

00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:11.420
of the thirties, studios could get away with

00:35:11.420 --> 00:35:14.300
a lot of violence and sex and nudity and adult

00:35:14.300 --> 00:35:17.000
themes. And like, you know, movies were like

00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:18.980
relatively permissive at the time, not as much

00:35:18.980 --> 00:35:20.480
as they are now, but still there's kind of a

00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:22.079
lot of shocking stuff in some of those early

00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.579
thirties horror movies. But then in 1935, mostly

00:35:25.579 --> 00:35:28.280
the production code really started. clamping

00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:30.579
down on all kinds of Hollywood movies and like

00:35:30.579 --> 00:35:33.380
very clearly saying what they could portray and

00:35:33.380 --> 00:35:36.320
what they could not portray. And, you know, most

00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:39.500
like graphic depictions of violence were off

00:35:39.500 --> 00:35:42.219
limits. Any kind of like evil characters had

00:35:42.219 --> 00:35:44.000
to be punished. There had to be some kind of

00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.679
like moral retribution for those characters.

00:35:47.389 --> 00:35:49.250
And I just kind of feel like the thrill of horror

00:35:49.250 --> 00:35:52.170
movies is some of that stuff, like the violence

00:35:52.170 --> 00:35:55.150
and like the amoral qualities and the thrill

00:35:55.150 --> 00:35:57.650
of that. So like maybe when the production code

00:35:57.650 --> 00:36:00.809
started like really enforcing censorship in Hollywood,

00:36:01.010 --> 00:36:03.349
horror kind of went by the wayside a little bit.

00:36:03.409 --> 00:36:04.969
Because then even in the 40s, when you do have

00:36:04.969 --> 00:36:07.469
some of the like horror comedies of like Eben

00:36:07.469 --> 00:36:09.449
Costello meet Frankenstein and stuff like that,

00:36:09.570 --> 00:36:11.949
they're fun, but they're not scary at all. They're

00:36:11.949 --> 00:36:13.510
like there's not any graphic violence in them

00:36:13.510 --> 00:36:15.579
or anything. And like they're, you know, like

00:36:15.579 --> 00:36:17.440
the Wolfman is pretty creepy. There are some

00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:19.099
really good horror movies from the 40s. So I'm

00:36:19.099 --> 00:36:21.019
not trying to say that there weren't. But, you

00:36:21.019 --> 00:36:23.260
know, like pre -code horror is just a very different

00:36:23.260 --> 00:36:25.880
beast from the horror movies that came out after

00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:30.820
this time. And the British censor boards in the

00:36:30.820 --> 00:36:36.139
30s, I believe, actually halted the import of

00:36:36.139 --> 00:36:39.940
any American horror films. Like they just said

00:36:39.940 --> 00:36:44.059
no. And that loss of market. also influenced

00:36:44.059 --> 00:36:47.320
the decision to hold off on horror films from

00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:50.219
the studios. I guess in short, there were a lot

00:36:50.219 --> 00:36:52.699
of reasons why Dracula's Daughter was kind of

00:36:52.699 --> 00:36:56.440
the last movie of Universal's initial, very popular,

00:36:56.519 --> 00:36:59.320
very successful horror run and sort of the end

00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:03.019
of an era in a way. So the cinematography is

00:37:03.019 --> 00:37:05.179
by George Robinson, who does incredible work,

00:37:05.260 --> 00:37:07.679
really eerie black and white cinematography in

00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:10.659
this movie. He also shot Dracula and the Invisible

00:37:10.659 --> 00:37:13.530
Ray. So it's kind of a... Small network of horror

00:37:13.530 --> 00:37:16.489
and sci -fi artists and crew members all working

00:37:16.489 --> 00:37:19.530
on this movie. It was edited by Milton Carruth,

00:37:19.670 --> 00:37:21.889
who has a great resume. He edited All Quiet on

00:37:21.889 --> 00:37:23.789
the Western Front, Shadow of a Doubt, Pillow

00:37:23.789 --> 00:37:26.630
Talk, Imitation of Life. Some real Hollywood

00:37:26.630 --> 00:37:29.849
classics on that list on his filmography. The

00:37:29.849 --> 00:37:33.030
music is by Heinz Rohmheld, who's from Milwaukee.

00:37:33.289 --> 00:37:35.510
I also am from the Milwaukee area, so I have

00:37:35.510 --> 00:37:38.690
to shout that out. Judging by his name, there's

00:37:38.690 --> 00:37:40.670
some German heritage there too, so I kind of

00:37:40.670 --> 00:37:43.579
appreciate that. Romheld did uncredited music

00:37:43.579 --> 00:37:45.940
on Gone with the Wind, composed soundtracks for

00:37:45.940 --> 00:37:48.579
The Invisible Man, The Lady from Shanghai, many

00:37:48.579 --> 00:37:51.739
others as well. And just the last crew member

00:37:51.739 --> 00:37:55.460
that I want to recognize here is Albert D 'Agostino,

00:37:55.619 --> 00:37:58.760
the art director. Part of the reason, I guess

00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:00.800
the main reason I want to call them out is just

00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:03.340
because the sets in this movie are so gorgeous.

00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:06.440
They're huge and opulent and the kind of like

00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:09.440
studio sets that you will never see anymore.

00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:12.500
Like the 30s is just that classic era of like

00:38:12.500 --> 00:38:16.159
jaw dropping studio sets. And Albert D 'Agostino

00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:19.730
is largely responsible for that. He reused the

00:38:19.730 --> 00:38:22.289
castle set from the original Dracula, but also

00:38:22.289 --> 00:38:24.510
created many new and gorgeous sets for the movie.

00:38:24.670 --> 00:38:26.690
I also wanted to say that he did the art direction

00:38:26.690 --> 00:38:29.110
for The Magnificent Ambersons, Orson Welles'

00:38:29.170 --> 00:38:31.949
best movie, not Citizen Kane in my opinion, and

00:38:31.949 --> 00:38:33.670
one of the best American movies of all time.

00:38:33.789 --> 00:38:36.489
So I had to work in The Magnificent Ambersons

00:38:36.489 --> 00:38:39.389
shout out somehow. I was also really taken with

00:38:39.389 --> 00:38:41.550
just the look and feel of the movie, like so

00:38:41.550 --> 00:38:45.269
much so. I think atmospheric horror is just so

00:38:45.269 --> 00:38:47.809
beautiful and really relies on that cinematography,

00:38:48.010 --> 00:38:50.429
you know, to convey the dread, you know, instead

00:38:50.429 --> 00:38:52.949
of the violence and all of that, you know, it

00:38:52.949 --> 00:38:55.949
had that kind of German expressionism vibe to

00:38:55.949 --> 00:38:58.110
it that you see in other movies like Metropolis

00:38:58.110 --> 00:39:00.989
and, you know, just any movie that emphasizes

00:39:00.989 --> 00:39:04.110
emotion and inner conflict, like over realism.

00:39:04.489 --> 00:39:06.969
I thought it was, it was very beautiful. It was,

00:39:06.969 --> 00:39:10.349
it was, I was so not surprised, but just in,

00:39:10.389 --> 00:39:13.880
in awe. Yeah, agreed. Pretty much from the opening

00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:16.079
shot, when we see two policemen like walking

00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:19.059
down a really tall set of stairs towards the

00:39:19.059 --> 00:39:21.239
bodies of Renfield and Dracula, which is off

00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:23.079
screen at the beginning of the movie, like right

00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:25.260
away, it's like, oh, this looks incredible. Like

00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:27.539
this is synonymous with classic horror, you know,

00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:30.739
just has that look to it. Yeah, totally. And,

00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:33.059
you know, we just see that that Carfax Abbey

00:39:33.059 --> 00:39:36.639
opening scene is so beautiful. And it reminded

00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:39.119
me of other, you know, like William Friedkin's

00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:43.099
Exorcist. That foreboding staircase. And it just

00:39:43.099 --> 00:39:46.000
reminded me of that. And I wondered if it had

00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:48.599
any influence on the cinematography in that movie.

00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:52.159
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. I would not

00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:54.440
be surprised. I mean, Friedkin, you know, huge

00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:56.699
fan of classic horror. So I can definitely see

00:39:56.699 --> 00:40:00.960
that. Yeah. Well, we can move into the cast of

00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:03.920
the film a little bit. Does anybody want to talk

00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:06.480
about Gloria Holden, who plays Dracula's daughter

00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.139
in the movie? I didn't know much about her going

00:40:09.139 --> 00:40:12.619
in. I still don't really know that much, except

00:40:12.619 --> 00:40:17.179
something I read over and over was that she looked

00:40:17.179 --> 00:40:22.400
down on horror and that she was not really proud

00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:25.519
of her place in that movie. And I think that's

00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:28.179
kind of interesting because she just was so good

00:40:28.179 --> 00:40:32.019
and she gave a lot to it. But I think that there's

00:40:32.019 --> 00:40:35.019
a possibility that that feeling maybe of not

00:40:35.019 --> 00:40:38.519
liking horror may be translated into her character.

00:40:39.299 --> 00:40:42.199
grappling with her own internal stuff. But yeah,

00:40:42.300 --> 00:40:44.099
I just thought it was really interesting and

00:40:44.099 --> 00:40:47.320
she did a good job. I thought she had a great

00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:50.380
presence. She brought a lot of subtlety to the

00:40:50.380 --> 00:40:54.039
character. Yeah, I would like to see more of

00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:57.699
her movies, but I have not seen her in any other

00:40:57.699 --> 00:41:02.789
roles that I know of. Yeah. I think she had a

00:41:02.789 --> 00:41:05.849
somewhat short career. Like a year after Dracula's

00:41:05.849 --> 00:41:08.050
Daughter, she was also in The Life of Emile Zola.

00:41:08.190 --> 00:41:11.090
And that might be like her most well -known other

00:41:11.090 --> 00:41:13.489
film that she was in. Aside from that, I think

00:41:13.489 --> 00:41:15.329
it was a lot of supporting roles and a lot of

00:41:15.329 --> 00:41:18.130
theater as well, from what I understand. Yeah.

00:41:18.670 --> 00:41:21.789
I echo all that, Naomi. I want to talk about

00:41:21.789 --> 00:41:23.809
a cast member who's not in the cast. Sorry, an

00:41:23.809 --> 00:41:26.349
actor who's not in the cast. Bela Lugosi is not

00:41:26.349 --> 00:41:30.010
in this movie. There's a dummy made up to look

00:41:30.010 --> 00:41:32.309
like him in the very... beginning of this film.

00:41:32.730 --> 00:41:37.010
It subsequently led on fire. But here's a fun

00:41:37.010 --> 00:41:40.909
fact from one of my universal reference books.

00:41:41.230 --> 00:41:44.650
So Bela Lugosi was paid off because at first

00:41:44.650 --> 00:41:48.869
he was cast in the film. But when the script

00:41:48.869 --> 00:41:51.030
went through all its changes, he was cut out

00:41:51.030 --> 00:41:55.150
of it, but he was paid off $4 ,000. And according

00:41:55.150 --> 00:41:58.809
to this book, that was $500 more than he had

00:41:58.809 --> 00:42:05.429
earned. Starring in Dracula. Wow. That's kind

00:42:05.429 --> 00:42:10.750
of sad. It's a little sad. But funny. Yeah. I

00:42:10.750 --> 00:42:13.230
wonder what he thought of the finished version

00:42:13.230 --> 00:42:16.570
of the film. Yeah, I think that about James Whale,

00:42:16.610 --> 00:42:21.289
too. Like, what did they think? Yeah. Yeah. And

00:42:21.289 --> 00:42:23.590
I know part of the reason. Oh, sorry. Oh, no.

00:42:23.690 --> 00:42:26.780
Go ahead. I was going to say, Gloria Holden,

00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:28.760
I think one reason she didn't like this role

00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:30.480
very much is because she was really worried about

00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:33.099
being typecast. Naomi kind of alluded to this

00:42:33.099 --> 00:42:35.360
before, but she and Bela Lugosi talked about

00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:37.800
that a little bit. And I think he kind of, you

00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:41.440
know, he didn't sway her to not take the role,

00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:43.380
obviously, since she's in the film. But I think

00:42:43.380 --> 00:42:45.760
they kind of shared some of those fears because

00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:47.260
that had already kind of started happening to

00:42:47.260 --> 00:42:49.719
Lugosi a little bit after he had starred in Dracula

00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:55.460
in 31. Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't help but kind of

00:42:55.460 --> 00:42:58.559
like when I saw her performance, it really reminded

00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:02.119
me of Sunset Boulevard. You know that, you know,

00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:04.920
the Norma Desmond character, the dramatic, like

00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:08.280
the delivery. And I just love kind of because

00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:10.360
I know that movie pretty well. And having seen

00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:12.559
this one for the first time, it's just like another

00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:16.099
piece falls into place. Like when you see something,

00:43:16.260 --> 00:43:18.480
you know what it was probably influenced by.

00:43:18.780 --> 00:43:21.260
Like, you know, I've seen a lot of movies, but

00:43:21.260 --> 00:43:23.550
it just that. the kind of thing that you learn

00:43:23.550 --> 00:43:25.789
and that keeps me interested and keeps me passionate

00:43:25.789 --> 00:43:28.650
about watching movies, just learning new things

00:43:28.650 --> 00:43:31.710
all the time. And well, I guess that's not confirmed,

00:43:31.869 --> 00:43:34.329
but it just really felt like it was, you know,

00:43:34.329 --> 00:43:37.010
influenced by her performance in this movie.

00:43:37.989 --> 00:43:40.070
I had the same thought, very similar performance

00:43:40.070 --> 00:43:44.590
styles for sure. And even, you know, Dracula's,

00:43:44.610 --> 00:43:47.650
or sorry, the Countess Zaleska's castle, even

00:43:47.650 --> 00:43:50.010
has some kind of like similarities to Norma Desmond's

00:43:50.010 --> 00:43:52.590
house in Sunset Boulevard. Definitely had the

00:43:52.590 --> 00:43:56.889
same thought as you, Naomi. Yeah. Agreed, yeah.

00:43:57.170 --> 00:44:00.730
Couldn't help but think that. Yeah. Maybe I'll

00:44:00.730 --> 00:44:03.130
talk briefly about my least favorite cast member

00:44:03.130 --> 00:44:06.889
in the movie, which is Otto Kruger. I'm a little

00:44:06.889 --> 00:44:09.070
snarky about him in the Google Doc notes here.

00:44:09.110 --> 00:44:11.170
I won't necessarily read all this out loud. Hey,

00:44:11.170 --> 00:44:15.789
he's no Nick Adams, okay? Nobody is. I think

00:44:15.789 --> 00:44:18.190
you can maybe say Otto Kruger is the exact opposite

00:44:18.190 --> 00:44:21.559
of Nick Adams. And if Nick Adams over is, you

00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:24.320
know, just like drowning in charisma, Otto Kruger

00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:27.500
is entirely devoid of it, in my opinion. Sorry,

00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:31.300
sorry, Mr. Kruger. But he plays Dr. Jeffrey Garth,

00:44:31.380 --> 00:44:33.880
a psychiatrist. He originally made a big splash

00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:36.840
on Broadway. He was kind of a matinee idol in

00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:38.900
the 20s, which is sort of inexplicable to me,

00:44:38.980 --> 00:44:42.039
but there you go. He later appeared in Saboteur,

00:44:42.139 --> 00:44:44.719
the Hitchcock movie, Magnificent Obsession by

00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:47.639
Douglas Sirk, and High Noon. So he was in some

00:44:47.639 --> 00:44:51.420
great movies. It might not be his performance.

00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:53.380
It might be the character that's so grating in

00:44:53.380 --> 00:44:55.880
Dracula's Daughter. But we'll talk more about

00:44:55.880 --> 00:45:00.300
that soon. Yeah, yeah. Marguerite Churchill plays

00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:04.539
his ostensible girlfriend, Janet Blake. She's

00:45:04.539 --> 00:45:08.000
also Dr. Garth's young secretary. The pretty

00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:11.739
blonde type of character that you'd see in a

00:45:11.739 --> 00:45:16.260
movie like this. Matt, as you wrote, she's inexplicably

00:45:16.260 --> 00:45:20.650
in love with him. I agree. I wrote pick me on

00:45:20.650 --> 00:45:23.469
mine. Kind of a pick me girl, you know? Yeah.

00:45:23.630 --> 00:45:28.889
Yeah. Yeah. She's kind of a fun character. I'll

00:45:28.889 --> 00:45:32.610
save that for later. Sorry. Okay. She was a child

00:45:32.610 --> 00:45:37.989
star. She was in a John Wayne movie, The Big

00:45:37.989 --> 00:45:41.690
Trail. She appeared in a few other films. The

00:45:41.690 --> 00:45:45.090
Walking Dead with Boris Karloff. That is an awesome

00:45:45.090 --> 00:45:49.210
movie. And I highly recommend. It's a gangster,

00:45:49.389 --> 00:45:51.449
because it was made at Warner Brothers, of course.

00:45:51.489 --> 00:45:54.710
It's a gangster horror movie where he's kind

00:45:54.710 --> 00:45:59.030
of a Frankenstein monster, of course. But check

00:45:59.030 --> 00:46:02.230
it out if you ever get the chance. It sounds

00:46:02.230 --> 00:46:06.210
great. Yeah. The cast also includes Irving Pichel

00:46:06.210 --> 00:46:08.869
as Sandor. Pichel, I think is how you pronounce

00:46:08.869 --> 00:46:11.670
his name. He started off in theater, then made

00:46:11.670 --> 00:46:14.070
the switch to movies around the time that sound

00:46:14.070 --> 00:46:18.119
entered cinema in the late 20s. Pachel appeared

00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:21.400
in An American Tragedy, The Story of Temple Drake,

00:46:21.579 --> 00:46:23.739
which was a very controversial pre -code adaptation

00:46:23.739 --> 00:46:26.639
of a William Faulkner novel. Pachel was also

00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:29.159
in Jezebel with Betty Davis. He had a pretty

00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:31.280
interesting career. During World War II, he became

00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:34.159
a director, making a lot of anti -Nazi, pro -British

00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:38.000
movies to uplift morale for the war effort. However,

00:46:38.179 --> 00:46:40.699
after the war, he was blacklisted as part of

00:46:40.699 --> 00:46:43.219
the House Un -American Activities Commission's

00:46:43.219 --> 00:46:46.179
investigations into communist sympathizers in

00:46:46.179 --> 00:46:49.010
Hollywood. Just kind of a sad backstory here.

00:46:49.170 --> 00:46:51.449
Pachel had indeed been a communist at one time,

00:46:51.550 --> 00:46:53.750
but he may have actually been targeted because

00:46:53.750 --> 00:46:56.590
he was Jewish and he was so adamantly anti -Nazi.

00:46:56.869 --> 00:46:59.550
And there was actually quite a bit of anti -Semitism

00:46:59.550 --> 00:47:04.190
in the HUAC trials in the 1950s. So whether it

00:47:04.190 --> 00:47:06.250
was because Pachel used to be a communist or

00:47:06.250 --> 00:47:09.349
because of anti -Semitist leanings for HUAC,

00:47:09.389 --> 00:47:12.789
you know, is up for debate. But Pachel was blacklisted.

00:47:12.829 --> 00:47:15.050
He had to make his last couple movies outside

00:47:15.050 --> 00:47:17.429
of the United States. One of them included the

00:47:17.429 --> 00:47:20.349
1950 sci -fi movie Destination Moon, which is

00:47:20.349 --> 00:47:22.210
really great if you haven't seen that. Highly

00:47:22.210 --> 00:47:24.889
recommended. Landmark science fiction movie.

00:47:25.530 --> 00:47:27.510
Indeed. I have not seen that. I'm going to have

00:47:27.510 --> 00:47:30.050
to write that down. Really gorgeous. I haven't

00:47:30.050 --> 00:47:33.889
seen it either, actually. It's awesome. It's

00:47:33.889 --> 00:47:36.150
the kind of space movie where everybody's walking

00:47:36.150 --> 00:47:38.110
around on the moon without helmets, which just

00:47:38.110 --> 00:47:40.889
kind of adds to the charm of it, you know? But

00:47:40.889 --> 00:47:43.590
a really, really good movie, for sure. Awesome.

00:47:43.670 --> 00:47:48.300
I'll check it out. Hedda Hopper. What? She's

00:47:48.300 --> 00:47:52.039
in this movie. She has a bit role as a socialist,

00:47:52.300 --> 00:47:56.880
Lady Esme Hammond. But come on, if you're in

00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:59.639
tune with Hollywood history, Hedda Hopper, she

00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:04.400
wrote a column in the 30s and 40s. Over 35 million

00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:08.420
people read her words. How would you describe

00:48:08.420 --> 00:48:11.760
it? She wasn't a critic. More of a gossip columnist,

00:48:11.820 --> 00:48:15.699
I would say. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. All the social

00:48:15.699 --> 00:48:20.719
goings on and controversies and scandals in Hollywood.

00:48:21.320 --> 00:48:23.980
Hedda Hopper was there. And doesn't she have

00:48:23.980 --> 00:48:28.159
a part in Sunset Boulevard? She does. Yeah. Playing

00:48:28.159 --> 00:48:31.679
herself, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. It's a cool connection.

00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:36.500
Yeah, it is. Cool. And then real quickly, Edward

00:48:36.500 --> 00:48:39.559
Van Sloan is the only cast member to reappear

00:48:39.559 --> 00:48:41.559
in Dracula's Daughter. He also played Professor

00:48:41.559 --> 00:48:44.320
Van Helsing in the original Dracula. So he's

00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:46.119
the only actor to appear in both these movies.

00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:50.840
Minnesota, shout out. Yeah, that's right. He's

00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:54.900
from Chaska. Oh, wow. Any Midwest connection,

00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:58.679
we always have to point out on this show. No,

00:48:58.760 --> 00:49:01.239
I think that's awesome. I had no idea. Yeah,

00:49:01.340 --> 00:49:05.880
we love Edward Van Sloan. Production backstory.

00:49:06.619 --> 00:49:10.019
It's a long one. Oh boy, lots of meat, lots of

00:49:10.019 --> 00:49:13.019
potatoes. Again, the movie was supposedly based

00:49:13.019 --> 00:49:16.280
on Dracula's Guest, the Bram Stoker story. Really,

00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:18.619
it has more to do with some other earlier literary

00:49:18.619 --> 00:49:21.559
influences like Carmilla, which was a novella

00:49:21.559 --> 00:49:25.980
from 1872 by Joseph Sheridan Le Fanu. This is

00:49:25.980 --> 00:49:28.199
commonly seen as one of the earliest works of

00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:31.460
vampire fiction. It actually predated Stoker's

00:49:31.460 --> 00:49:34.969
Dracula by 25 years. Carmilla also features a

00:49:34.969 --> 00:49:37.570
lesbian relationship between a vampire antagonist

00:49:37.570 --> 00:49:40.710
and a female victim, or numerous victims, I believe.

00:49:40.969 --> 00:49:43.969
So really, Carmilla is more of a direct influence

00:49:43.969 --> 00:49:46.789
on Dracula's daughter than the Stoker short story

00:49:46.789 --> 00:49:49.369
is. Vincent, you kind of alluded to this before,

00:49:49.449 --> 00:49:51.389
but David O. Selznick had originally bought the

00:49:51.389 --> 00:49:53.489
rights to Dracula's Guest for MGM to produce

00:49:53.489 --> 00:49:57.000
in 1933. There is, you know, some historians

00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.239
say that maybe he just bought the rights so that

00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:01.980
Universal would inevitably buy the rights from

00:50:01.980 --> 00:50:03.880
MGM a couple years down the road because this

00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:06.300
was, you know, a property that Universal definitely

00:50:06.300 --> 00:50:08.480
would want to make into a movie for a direct

00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:11.679
sequel to Dracula. Regardless, MGM still hadn't

00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:15.670
made the movie in 19... when Universal was looking

00:50:15.670 --> 00:50:18.670
for a sequel to Dracula. So that's exactly what

00:50:18.670 --> 00:50:20.550
happened. Universal bought the rights from MGM

00:50:20.550 --> 00:50:23.829
with the stipulation that the rights would revert

00:50:23.829 --> 00:50:27.050
to MGM if Universal didn't begin production by

00:50:27.050 --> 00:50:31.369
February of 1936. Sure enough, February of 1936

00:50:31.369 --> 00:50:34.150
rolled around. Universal still hadn't started

00:50:34.150 --> 00:50:36.070
production on the movie, so they rushed it into

00:50:36.070 --> 00:50:38.849
production as quickly as they could with the

00:50:38.849 --> 00:50:41.030
script still unfinished. And I think that maybe

00:50:41.030 --> 00:50:44.489
explains some of the... you know, rushed feeling

00:50:44.489 --> 00:50:47.250
and maybe some of the sense of like things missing

00:50:47.250 --> 00:50:49.150
from the final version. Of course, the production

00:50:49.150 --> 00:50:50.989
code censorship had a role to play in that as

00:50:50.989 --> 00:50:55.070
well. Yeah, it was filmed in six weeks. I mean,

00:50:55.070 --> 00:50:57.849
that seems kind of long for a Hollywood movie

00:50:57.849 --> 00:50:59.610
at this time. You know, like some of them were

00:50:59.610 --> 00:51:01.949
like two weeks and they're in the can, but a

00:51:01.949 --> 00:51:04.070
longer, longer process on this one for sure.

00:51:04.630 --> 00:51:07.730
Yeah. Well, it's beautiful. I'm glad they took

00:51:07.730 --> 00:51:11.130
the time to execute it right. Yeah, although

00:51:11.130 --> 00:51:13.329
it was a very chaotic production, partially because

00:51:13.329 --> 00:51:16.349
they were working on the screenplay while they

00:51:16.349 --> 00:51:19.510
shot it. Sorry, I'm just looking at my notes

00:51:19.510 --> 00:51:23.610
here real quick. So yeah, I talked a little bit

00:51:23.610 --> 00:51:26.389
about the screenplays earlier. So Balderson's

00:51:26.389 --> 00:51:28.389
first version of the screenplay that he wrote

00:51:28.389 --> 00:51:30.949
for MGM and Selznick was supposed to be a direct

00:51:30.949 --> 00:51:33.969
follow -up to Dracula, in which Van Helsing returns

00:51:33.969 --> 00:51:37.210
to Transylvania and kills Dracula's three brides,

00:51:37.230 --> 00:51:40.489
but neglects to investigate a coffin. that contains

00:51:40.489 --> 00:51:43.309
Dracula's daughter. The reason why this screenplay

00:51:43.309 --> 00:51:45.650
would have had no chance to get past the censors

00:51:45.650 --> 00:51:48.429
is because it was full of sadomasochistic themes,

00:51:48.630 --> 00:51:51.389
including the suggestion that Dracula's daughter

00:51:51.389 --> 00:51:54.670
tortured her male victims, and both she and her

00:51:54.670 --> 00:51:57.869
victims received sexual pleasure from it, from

00:51:57.869 --> 00:52:02.329
this torture. Wow. Yeah, I mean, of course, that

00:52:02.329 --> 00:52:04.070
never would have passed the production code.

00:52:04.969 --> 00:52:07.809
We never found out whether it would anyway, because

00:52:07.809 --> 00:52:10.710
in 1934, when Universal bought the rights to

00:52:10.710 --> 00:52:13.010
Dracula's Guest, they also bought the rights

00:52:13.010 --> 00:52:16.170
to Balderson's Scenario and rejected it pretty

00:52:16.170 --> 00:52:18.250
much immediately. They probably knew it wouldn't

00:52:18.250 --> 00:52:23.250
pass muster with the PCA. That's crazy. I do

00:52:23.250 --> 00:52:26.670
want to see that. Oh, yeah, me too. It makes

00:52:26.670 --> 00:52:28.769
you wonder if they remade it today, you know,

00:52:28.769 --> 00:52:31.250
at least somewhat faithfully, if they would try

00:52:31.250 --> 00:52:35.340
to incorporate anything like that. Yeah, it'd

00:52:35.340 --> 00:52:37.199
basically be the hostile movies if they made

00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:41.300
that today, you know? No, it makes me think of

00:52:41.300 --> 00:52:46.619
the Black Cat from Universal from 32, somewhere

00:52:46.619 --> 00:52:49.820
around there. Bela Lugosi, Boris Karloff, but

00:52:49.820 --> 00:52:55.340
there are explicit images of these sorts of chains

00:52:55.340 --> 00:53:00.139
and whips and Satanists and a lot of that kind

00:53:00.139 --> 00:53:04.280
of stuff. I'm not equating sadomasochism. with

00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:07.800
satanism not doing that i'm just saying the black

00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:11.760
cat features imagery belonging to both separate

00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:18.960
interests interests yeah we're gonna get hate

00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.699
mail from both satanists and sadomasochists now

00:53:21.699 --> 00:53:26.739
good job Anyway, so yeah, that script treatment

00:53:26.739 --> 00:53:28.880
was rejected almost immediately by Universal.

00:53:29.179 --> 00:53:31.800
Then they commissioned another screenplay from

00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:34.559
R .C. Sheriff. We talked about him before. Sheriff's

00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:37.019
version of the screenplay began in the 14th century

00:53:37.019 --> 00:53:38.460
and centered a little bit more on the Dracula

00:53:38.460 --> 00:53:41.539
legend. Then that movie would kind of jump forward

00:53:41.539 --> 00:53:44.139
to the present day when two different couples

00:53:44.139 --> 00:53:46.679
would visit Transylvania and stumble upon Dracula's

00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:50.079
castle. Dracula's daughter in Sheriff's screenplay

00:53:50.079 --> 00:53:52.579
hypnotizes one of the men and forces him to do

00:53:52.579 --> 00:53:55.090
her bidding. Von Helsing, as he's known in this

00:53:55.090 --> 00:53:57.789
movie, is summoned to rescue the man, and the

00:53:57.789 --> 00:53:59.869
ensemble of characters meets on a ship bound

00:53:59.869 --> 00:54:02.130
for the Far East where the Countess is escaping

00:54:02.130 --> 00:54:05.230
to. So this screenplay got far enough that the

00:54:05.230 --> 00:54:08.349
PCA, the Production Code Administration, as well

00:54:08.349 --> 00:54:10.849
as the British Board of Film Censors, both reviewed

00:54:10.849 --> 00:54:13.389
Sheriff's script and took issue with it, maybe

00:54:13.389 --> 00:54:16.130
not surprisingly. The British Board of Film Censors

00:54:16.130 --> 00:54:19.050
said that it would require, quote, half a dozen

00:54:19.050 --> 00:54:22.130
languages to adequately express the beastliness.

00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:24.920
of that screenplay, which is an amazing quote.

00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:26.619
I love that. Seems a little over the top, but

00:54:26.619 --> 00:54:29.980
who knows? I haven't read it myself. Joseph Breen,

00:54:30.039 --> 00:54:32.400
the head of the PCA, pretty much agreed with

00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:35.300
that sentiment. He said that Sheriff's screenplay

00:54:35.300 --> 00:54:38.099
contains countless offensive stuff, which makes

00:54:38.099 --> 00:54:40.840
the picture utterly impossible for approval under

00:54:40.840 --> 00:54:44.219
the production code. So yeah, I mean, it was

00:54:44.219 --> 00:54:46.159
really clamping down on this time. Censorship

00:54:46.159 --> 00:54:48.500
was really strict for Hollywood studios around

00:54:48.500 --> 00:54:51.900
this era in the late 30s. Sheriff wrote four

00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:54.500
drafts of the screenplay, all of which were rejected

00:54:54.500 --> 00:54:57.079
by the production code. Although the second draft

00:54:57.079 --> 00:54:59.340
of his screenplay was accepted by the British

00:54:59.340 --> 00:55:01.320
Board of Film Censors. Not that that really matters.

00:55:01.880 --> 00:55:04.559
Vincent, you suggested this before, but maybe

00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:07.019
James Whale was encouraging Sheriff to come up

00:55:07.019 --> 00:55:09.019
with like increasingly shocking and scandalous

00:55:09.019 --> 00:55:10.840
versions of the screenplay so that this movie

00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:13.139
would never get made. Yeah, I think it's allegedly,

00:55:13.460 --> 00:55:16.639
but you know, I could see James Whale saying

00:55:16.639 --> 00:55:19.820
something like that. Yeah, yeah. I would not

00:55:19.820 --> 00:55:22.179
be surprised. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun to think about.

00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:25.780
Yeah. So after all these, you know, rejected

00:55:25.780 --> 00:55:28.639
screenplays, finally, E .M. Asher, who was a

00:55:28.639 --> 00:55:31.440
producer for Universal, told Joseph Breen that

00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:33.340
Sheriff's script would not be used and they would

00:55:33.340 --> 00:55:35.900
start another one from scratch. This is the one

00:55:35.900 --> 00:55:37.820
that was written by Garrett Fort, essentially

00:55:37.820 --> 00:55:40.280
the screenplay that was actually filmed that

00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:43.239
we see in the final movie with some changes.

00:55:43.849 --> 00:55:46.650
Fort's second draft of the screenplay was submitted

00:55:46.650 --> 00:55:50.130
to the PCA in February of 1936, so right when

00:55:50.130 --> 00:55:52.510
they were supposed to start production on the

00:55:52.510 --> 00:55:55.550
film. The production code's only demand with

00:55:55.550 --> 00:55:59.210
this screenplay was maybe the most notorious

00:55:59.210 --> 00:56:01.050
and I think one of the best scenes in the movie,

00:56:01.130 --> 00:56:03.949
in which the Countess Zaleska, Dracula's daughter,

00:56:04.269 --> 00:56:08.429
has her manservant, Sandor, abduct a beautiful

00:56:08.429 --> 00:56:11.150
young woman, take her back to the castle to pose

00:56:11.150 --> 00:56:14.150
for a painting. And there's this really erotically

00:56:14.150 --> 00:56:16.789
charged moment where the Countess is kind of,

00:56:16.789 --> 00:56:20.190
you know, hungrily staring at this young woman

00:56:20.190 --> 00:56:23.449
who is not totally undressing, but kind of taking

00:56:23.449 --> 00:56:25.530
off her blouse and baring her shoulders a little

00:56:25.530 --> 00:56:29.349
bit. For 1936, a very sexual and erotic scene.

00:56:29.570 --> 00:56:31.949
And again, not surprisingly, this is the scene

00:56:31.949 --> 00:56:34.510
that the production code took issue with. The

00:56:34.510 --> 00:56:38.409
production code said that there must be no indication

00:56:38.409 --> 00:56:41.969
of a perverse sexual desire. on the part of Maria,

00:56:42.090 --> 00:56:44.369
who is Dracula's daughter, or of an attempted

00:56:44.369 --> 00:56:48.489
sexual attack by her upon Lily. Later correspondences

00:56:48.489 --> 00:56:50.989
from Breen's Universal producer Harry Zahner

00:56:50.989 --> 00:56:53.650
make it very clear how much the production code

00:56:53.650 --> 00:56:56.349
dictated the final version of that scene. Breen

00:56:56.349 --> 00:56:58.329
was basically like, listen, this is exactly what's

00:56:58.329 --> 00:57:00.349
going to happen. Here's what you can show. You

00:57:00.349 --> 00:57:02.969
can frame this actress from the shoulders up.

00:57:03.639 --> 00:57:05.400
I just think it's fascinating that like you can

00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:08.019
read those correspondences and it's kind of clear

00:57:08.019 --> 00:57:09.980
proof that the production code had like a very

00:57:09.980 --> 00:57:12.840
definite kind of influence on the shape of the

00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:15.519
finished product. Just a fascinating example

00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:18.440
of that, I think in this, in this movie. Yeah.

00:57:18.500 --> 00:57:20.599
It makes me wonder what that actual process was

00:57:20.599 --> 00:57:23.059
like. Was it like, I mean, maybe you guys can

00:57:23.059 --> 00:57:25.000
give me insight into that. Is it like a committee

00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:28.760
of people or is it one individual? Like who enforces

00:57:28.760 --> 00:57:31.639
that or who enforced that or who would grant

00:57:31.639 --> 00:57:35.219
approval? Yeah, I definitely don't know all the

00:57:35.219 --> 00:57:37.239
details. I know Joseph Breen was the head of

00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:39.039
the production code. So I think all decisions

00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:41.420
would ultimately come down to him. But I think

00:57:41.420 --> 00:57:45.320
it was a group of people who had worked in Hollywood,

00:57:45.579 --> 00:57:48.599
maybe not like on the production side, but maybe

00:57:48.599 --> 00:57:51.500
more of like distributors, exhibitors. And I

00:57:51.500 --> 00:57:54.219
know like the Legion of Decency, like strongly,

00:57:54.380 --> 00:57:56.940
which was like a Catholic sort of like nationwide

00:57:56.940 --> 00:58:00.099
group of Catholic members, kind of influenced

00:58:00.099 --> 00:58:03.429
the building and the sort of the entrenchment

00:58:03.429 --> 00:58:05.170
of the production code. So I do think it was

00:58:05.170 --> 00:58:06.710
a vast group of people that would make those

00:58:06.710 --> 00:58:08.809
decisions. You know, they may have been artists,

00:58:08.909 --> 00:58:11.389
they may have been in Hollywood, but they were

00:58:11.389 --> 00:58:14.329
not looking at these films from a filmmaker's

00:58:14.329 --> 00:58:18.730
artist's lens. And I can't say for certain the

00:58:18.730 --> 00:58:22.210
demographics of every member, but I'm sure they

00:58:22.210 --> 00:58:27.250
were overwhelmingly white and male and straight

00:58:27.250 --> 00:58:33.710
and religious. legion of decency comes up time

00:58:33.710 --> 00:58:36.329
and time again so it's just interesting to like

00:58:36.329 --> 00:58:40.949
think about the forces at play influencing a

00:58:40.949 --> 00:58:45.010
movie like dracula's daughter coming from this

00:58:45.010 --> 00:58:48.909
group this homogenous group who who may or may

00:58:48.909 --> 00:58:52.769
not take issue with some of the themes in the

00:58:52.769 --> 00:58:56.579
final film It's honestly amazing that they even

00:58:56.579 --> 00:59:00.199
got it out the way it is with everything. It's,

00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:03.900
it's very, very provocative. That scene with

00:59:03.900 --> 00:59:07.219
Lily is I find it's very erotic. Like it's suggestive.

00:59:07.699 --> 00:59:10.360
I'm surprised that they got it, you know, the

00:59:10.360 --> 00:59:12.480
way that they did and in the, in the form that

00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:16.199
it is now. I agree. And I think that's, for me,

00:59:16.219 --> 00:59:18.679
it's something that keeps me coming back to this

00:59:18.679 --> 00:59:22.130
movie is it, it feels like an earlier. maybe

00:59:22.130 --> 00:59:25.329
pre -code film. It's got those, those strands

00:59:25.329 --> 00:59:30.610
of eroticism and, and maybe some taboo subjects,

00:59:30.769 --> 00:59:34.590
quote unquote, but like it's still caught in

00:59:34.590 --> 00:59:38.389
the crosswinds of a very established censorship

00:59:38.389 --> 00:59:41.690
board. Yeah, I agree. I would love to see the

00:59:41.690 --> 00:59:43.329
pre -code version of this movie. But at the same

00:59:43.329 --> 00:59:45.070
time, I think it's fascinating that this came

00:59:45.070 --> 00:59:49.010
out in 1936, which is right on that bridge between

00:59:49.010 --> 00:59:52.010
the pre -code era and the era when censorship

00:59:52.010 --> 00:59:54.550
really was becoming a lot more strict. And I

00:59:54.550 --> 00:59:57.690
think we see both influences in the final version

00:59:57.690 --> 00:59:59.769
of this movie, which is fascinating. Yeah, yeah.

01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:04.420
The initial proposed cast was like this. It would

01:00:04.420 --> 01:00:06.519
have been really something what Universal said

01:00:06.519 --> 01:00:08.619
was going to be the cast of this movie, which

01:00:08.619 --> 01:00:12.260
included Bela Lugosi, Jane Wyatt, Boris Karloff,

01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:14.579
Colin Clive, who was in the original Frankenstein,

01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:17.280
Cesar Romero, who played Joker in the Batman

01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:22.039
TV series. Herbert Marshall, who's a great screwball

01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:24.079
comedy, romantic comedy actor from the early

01:00:24.079 --> 01:00:27.079
30s, they were all slated to appear in Dracula's

01:00:27.079 --> 01:00:29.579
Daughter, and none of them are in the finished

01:00:29.579 --> 01:00:31.800
version, unless you count Bela Lugosi's dummy

01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:35.940
that Vincent talked about earlier. That's funny.

01:00:36.199 --> 01:00:39.420
Yeah. It's like how many, like these days, how

01:00:39.420 --> 01:00:43.300
many star casts are announced, and how many of

01:00:43.300 --> 01:00:47.190
them never come to fruition. Yeah. It was true

01:00:47.190 --> 01:00:51.690
even 90 years ago in Hollywood. So production

01:00:51.690 --> 01:00:55.590
began in February of 1936. Again, Universal really

01:00:55.590 --> 01:00:58.949
rushed this into production. They demanded that

01:00:58.949 --> 01:01:01.190
the cast and crew shoot seven days a week, pretty

01:01:01.190 --> 01:01:05.050
much around the clock. Even so, the film, the

01:01:05.050 --> 01:01:07.670
shoot, went seven days over schedule and $50

01:01:07.670 --> 01:01:11.429
,000 over budget. So definitely a chaotic production

01:01:11.429 --> 01:01:15.940
on this one. Man, I had no idea. I didn't really

01:01:15.940 --> 01:01:19.199
look into any of the struggles of production.

01:01:19.739 --> 01:01:22.599
So that was all super interesting. Yeah. And

01:01:22.599 --> 01:01:24.619
I, you know, kind of like you guys were, like

01:01:24.619 --> 01:01:26.420
you both were alluding to before, you know, I

01:01:26.420 --> 01:01:29.300
think like we can see some of those like pressures

01:01:29.300 --> 01:01:31.539
and just like the quick shooting schedule in

01:01:31.539 --> 01:01:34.360
the finished version of the film. Again, I just

01:01:34.360 --> 01:01:35.679
think it's interesting that those kind of like

01:01:35.679 --> 01:01:38.079
behind the scenes struggles, like you can kind

01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:40.320
of see them in some of the, some of the story

01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:42.619
and some of the characters maybe kind of. not

01:01:42.619 --> 01:01:44.579
being as complex as they might have been. But

01:01:44.579 --> 01:01:48.500
then others are still really rich and complicated.

01:01:48.800 --> 01:01:51.739
So yeah, we have the good and the bad in this

01:01:51.739 --> 01:01:55.579
movie. Contemporary reviews were tepid to positive,

01:01:55.760 --> 01:01:58.280
with most reviewers praising Holden's performance

01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:01.099
and the gothic atmosphere, which was outstanding.

01:02:01.239 --> 01:02:04.219
I loved it. Even so, Vox Alpha's performance

01:02:04.219 --> 01:02:07.440
paled in comparison to the original, which is

01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:09.780
kind of the opposite, I think, of... films today,

01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:11.900
right? Like a lot of times you'll hear about

01:02:11.900 --> 01:02:15.059
sequels pulling in really big numbers. So that's

01:02:15.059 --> 01:02:17.380
kind of interesting. Retrospective analysis,

01:02:17.699 --> 01:02:20.840
however, places the film in the context of depictions

01:02:20.840 --> 01:02:23.760
of homosexuality throughout cinema history. So

01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:26.340
despite earlier literary depictions of lesbian

01:02:26.340 --> 01:02:29.019
romance, particularly in the gothic horror genre,

01:02:29.159 --> 01:02:32.139
like the aforementioned Carmilla and Samuel Taylor

01:02:32.139 --> 01:02:37.739
Coleridge's 1797 poem, Christabel, even its implicit

01:02:38.269 --> 01:02:40.809
portrayal in Dracula's Daughter was absolutely

01:02:40.809 --> 01:02:44.530
groundbreaking on screen, and I'm not surprised

01:02:44.530 --> 01:02:48.530
at all. It was fun to learn that Anne Rice has

01:02:48.530 --> 01:02:50.889
named the film as a direct influence on her writing,

01:02:51.070 --> 01:02:54.789
even calling a bar Dracula's Daughter in her

01:02:54.789 --> 01:02:59.489
1985 novel The Vampire Lestat. I definitely read

01:02:59.489 --> 01:03:01.789
a little bit about that myself, and it kind of

01:03:01.789 --> 01:03:06.670
reminded me of the complex queer vampire characters.

01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:10.880
her novels so several critics and scholars in

01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:13.699
the lgbtq community cite dracula's daughter as

01:03:13.699 --> 01:03:16.920
a pioneering work gay film historian vito russo

01:03:16.920 --> 01:03:19.360
in his book called the cellulite closet quotes

01:03:19.360 --> 01:03:22.079
universal ads from the original release that

01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:25.199
actually read save the woman of london from dracula's

01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:28.059
daughter an attempt to kind of exploit the movie's

01:03:28.059 --> 01:03:30.400
sexual thrills so i guess they kind of allude

01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:33.199
to it in the marketing it's kind of funny they

01:03:33.199 --> 01:03:36.599
could get away with that a little bit yeah So

01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:39.400
retrospective analysis from Entertainment Weekly

01:03:39.400 --> 01:03:41.940
wrote that the scene between Zaleski and Lily

01:03:41.940 --> 01:03:45.760
is, quote, so hot, it's impossible to imagine

01:03:45.760 --> 01:03:49.219
how it ever got past 30 censors. Like we were

01:03:49.219 --> 01:03:52.579
literally just saying this. And horror scholar

01:03:52.579 --> 01:03:55.219
David Skoll writes that the scene is, quote,

01:03:55.320 --> 01:03:59.360
a classic lesbian sequence, although of a decidedly

01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:03.099
negative strike. So that's interesting. And indeed.

01:04:03.559 --> 01:04:06.579
Russo criticizes that scene and other parts of

01:04:06.579 --> 01:04:09.719
the film as indicating a negative portrayal of

01:04:09.719 --> 01:04:12.760
the essence of homosexuality as a predatory weakness.

01:04:13.460 --> 01:04:16.219
Russo includes the scene in the documentary adaptation

01:04:16.219 --> 01:04:20.000
of his book, The Celluloid Closet. Other scenes

01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:23.460
have also been noted for their homoerotic undertones,

01:04:23.679 --> 01:04:26.780
particularly the moment near the climax in which

01:04:26.780 --> 01:04:32.449
Zaleska hovers over the unconscious body of Dr.

01:04:32.489 --> 01:04:34.969
Garth's secretary, Janet, a scene that Ellis

01:04:34.969 --> 01:04:37.590
Hansen describes as, quote, the longest kiss

01:04:37.590 --> 01:04:43.230
never filmed. Yeah, that's a great quote. I love

01:04:43.230 --> 01:04:46.869
that. So the Bright Lights Film Journal, that

01:04:46.869 --> 01:04:49.510
the essay also criticizes the film for its connections

01:04:49.510 --> 01:04:52.170
between lesbianism and mental illness, where

01:04:52.170 --> 01:04:54.570
Zaleska believes she could be cured of her illness,

01:04:54.610 --> 01:04:59.309
which I completely like. It just made me so mad

01:04:59.309 --> 01:05:02.489
watching the way like Garth treated her and was

01:05:02.489 --> 01:05:08.409
just so condescending and basically saying that,

01:05:08.409 --> 01:05:13.730
what's the word? That willpower is like the key

01:05:13.730 --> 01:05:16.550
of what's needed. And it just felt like one step

01:05:16.550 --> 01:05:19.329
away from conversion therapy, you know, his approach

01:05:19.329 --> 01:05:23.690
on that. Yeah. And then the film has been analyzed

01:05:23.690 --> 01:05:26.849
for its influence on movies such as Sunset Boulevard.

01:05:27.260 --> 01:05:31.420
Nadja and the 2024 universal film, Abigail, which

01:05:31.420 --> 01:05:33.619
was originally planned as a remake of Dracula's

01:05:33.619 --> 01:05:37.039
daughter. Now I had read that and actually watched

01:05:37.039 --> 01:05:39.320
that Abigail. It had been kind of on my list,

01:05:39.340 --> 01:05:41.179
but not a priority. It didn't look very good,

01:05:41.260 --> 01:05:43.559
but I figured, Oh, I'll just, you know, throw

01:05:43.559 --> 01:05:46.219
it in as part of the research on this. And it

01:05:46.219 --> 01:05:49.840
has absolutely nothing to do or any similarities

01:05:49.840 --> 01:05:52.179
really to Dracula's daughter. Maybe it takes

01:05:52.179 --> 01:05:54.619
place in an opulent home. Maybe there's some

01:05:54.619 --> 01:05:57.099
connections there, but yeah, it. I kind of wish

01:05:57.099 --> 01:06:00.179
it did. That would have been cool. Yeah. Would

01:06:00.179 --> 01:06:01.679
have made it more interesting in my opinion.

01:06:02.900 --> 01:06:05.480
Yeah. I have not seen Abigail and I didn't really

01:06:05.480 --> 01:06:07.659
have a desire to until I found out about the

01:06:07.659 --> 01:06:09.739
connection between this movie and that one. But

01:06:09.739 --> 01:06:12.559
yeah, it's, I mean, it seems like there's just

01:06:12.559 --> 01:06:14.420
a little girl who's a vampire and that's the

01:06:14.420 --> 01:06:17.139
only, even that's not in Dracula's daughter,

01:06:17.199 --> 01:06:19.300
but just like that concept is the only connection

01:06:19.300 --> 01:06:23.949
it seems. Yes, exactly. Yep. Well, thank you

01:06:23.949 --> 01:06:26.050
for reading all that, Naomi. Sorry to give you

01:06:26.050 --> 01:06:28.869
a sort of long and complicated section, but yeah,

01:06:28.969 --> 01:06:32.090
a lot to this movie's depictions of homosexuality

01:06:32.090 --> 01:06:35.130
in both pioneering ways, but also some negative,

01:06:35.210 --> 01:06:38.130
questionable ways, especially viewed through

01:06:38.130 --> 01:06:44.170
modern eyes. Yeah, I think 1930s, you know, homosexuality

01:06:44.170 --> 01:06:47.469
was definitely seen as an affliction. You know,

01:06:47.530 --> 01:06:49.590
it was something to be hidden and repressed.

01:06:50.079 --> 01:06:52.659
and ultimately punished like the movie wasn't

01:06:52.659 --> 01:06:55.440
just an ending it really was a punishment and

01:06:55.440 --> 01:07:00.079
i would say that this movie definitely touches

01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:04.500
on that a lot like the relationship between zaleska

01:07:04.500 --> 01:07:09.880
and the doctor is not only reflective i guess

01:07:09.880 --> 01:07:12.119
i i took it very personally and it was kind of

01:07:12.119 --> 01:07:14.920
triggering for me as a woman who's kind of struggled

01:07:14.920 --> 01:07:17.980
to be validated especially in medical spaces

01:07:17.980 --> 01:07:21.559
like I have Crohn's disease. And so 10 years

01:07:21.559 --> 01:07:25.320
ago, I was suffering, having the same, you know,

01:07:25.320 --> 01:07:28.519
unproductive appointment over and over with male

01:07:28.519 --> 01:07:31.380
doctors basically saying, this is nerves, you're

01:07:31.380 --> 01:07:34.340
stressed out, you're doing too much, and kind

01:07:34.340 --> 01:07:36.699
of making it about, you know, irrational emotions

01:07:36.699 --> 01:07:40.579
or something like that. And I feel like, you

01:07:40.579 --> 01:07:43.440
know, Zaleska goes through a similar thing where

01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:46.639
she's very sad, and she's coming to him for help.

01:07:46.699 --> 01:07:52.630
And he just completely like you know dismisses

01:07:52.630 --> 01:07:58.210
all of her concerns and is very much yeah i guess

01:07:58.210 --> 01:08:00.469
just dismissive and and awful like i'm trying

01:08:00.469 --> 01:08:02.769
not to use swear words so it's kind of hard to

01:08:02.769 --> 01:08:06.329
talk about him but i think it reflects the 1930s

01:08:06.329 --> 01:08:10.369
view on homosexuality being something that is

01:08:10.369 --> 01:08:13.429
bad and that should be changed and could be changed

01:08:13.429 --> 01:08:19.500
by willpower which is obviously crazy Yeah. And

01:08:19.500 --> 01:08:23.159
at this time, up until I think the 50s, the American

01:08:23.159 --> 01:08:26.960
Psychiatric Association referred to homosexuality

01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:30.380
as a mental illness. So that's kind of a very

01:08:30.380 --> 01:08:33.159
sad and sobering example of how, like you were

01:08:33.159 --> 01:08:36.199
saying, Naomi, the medical industry is complicit

01:08:36.199 --> 01:08:40.739
in the kind of pushing those sexual identities

01:08:40.739 --> 01:08:43.340
and orientations to the margins instead of accepting

01:08:43.340 --> 01:08:47.289
them as just human nature. That, you know, that

01:08:47.289 --> 01:08:49.789
extremely negative influence persisted for much

01:08:49.789 --> 01:08:52.970
of the 20th century. And I think Dracula's Daughter

01:08:52.970 --> 01:08:55.850
may be against its will. It doesn't seem like

01:08:55.850 --> 01:08:59.670
an intentional theme, but like it's kind of evoking

01:08:59.670 --> 01:09:03.090
that in a difficult and kind of disturbing way,

01:09:03.189 --> 01:09:07.649
you know? Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot more

01:09:07.649 --> 01:09:09.609
to say about that. And I think we should maybe

01:09:09.609 --> 01:09:11.329
come back to some of these questions in a moment

01:09:11.329 --> 01:09:14.289
here. But I do think it's awkwardly time for

01:09:14.289 --> 01:09:18.170
our sponsor break. You can cut this up however

01:09:18.170 --> 01:09:20.189
you want, Vincent. It might not be the best moment

01:09:20.189 --> 01:09:22.289
for it, but I'm just going to throw it in there

01:09:22.289 --> 01:09:25.329
right now. Sorry. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by

01:09:25.329 --> 01:09:27.550
Zach Linder and the Zach Pack, powered by Coldwell

01:09:27.550 --> 01:09:30.449
Banker Realty. Your source for real estate, home

01:09:30.449 --> 01:09:32.970
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and residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach

01:09:35.970 --> 01:09:38.770
Pack today for real estate services. Follow the

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Zach Pack on social media and contact the Zach

01:09:41.569 --> 01:09:44.470
Pack for investment opportunities. Link in the

01:09:44.470 --> 01:09:47.170
show notes. Vincent, do we have anything from

01:09:47.170 --> 01:09:49.670
Minya's mailbox tonight? Just something real

01:09:49.670 --> 01:09:54.529
quick in our episode here. Kind of a tongue -in

01:09:54.529 --> 01:09:59.270
-cheek comment from me to include this. So on

01:09:59.270 --> 01:10:02.689
our YouTube channel in response to our Invasion

01:10:02.689 --> 01:10:07.529
of Astro Monster video, because remember, I upload

01:10:07.529 --> 01:10:11.649
the podcast audio to YouTube, so you could listen

01:10:11.649 --> 01:10:15.479
to the show on YouTube. There was no video. This

01:10:15.479 --> 01:10:18.640
is not the movie. So if you're thinking, oh,

01:10:18.699 --> 01:10:20.800
I'm going to watch this movie for free on YouTube,

01:10:21.039 --> 01:10:25.199
I hate to disappoint you. And this is for Tarzan

01:10:25.199 --> 01:10:31.600
Tabby, who said, yay, more clickbait. So I'm

01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:34.399
like, sorry, it's not the movie. It's just us

01:10:34.399 --> 01:10:37.699
talking about the movie. I don't even think that's

01:10:37.699 --> 01:10:42.090
that unusual. You know, I see that. Yeah, I would

01:10:42.090 --> 01:10:44.229
say that's fairly clearly laid out in the video

01:10:44.229 --> 01:10:47.689
title as well. But, you know, but. But hey, thanks

01:10:47.689 --> 01:10:51.109
for the engagement. We appreciate all the comments.

01:10:51.149 --> 01:10:55.289
So it helps us. Listeners, patrons, let us know

01:10:55.289 --> 01:10:58.890
your thoughts and we will feature you on Minya's

01:10:58.890 --> 01:11:13.899
mailbox. Welcome to the Poverty Row Studios on

01:11:13.899 --> 01:11:16.840
the other side of Hollywood, where the stars

01:11:16.840 --> 01:11:19.340
were dimmer and the red carpets dripped with

01:11:19.340 --> 01:11:22.880
blood. Together, we will watch the best of the

01:11:22.880 --> 01:11:25.659
worst. Movies known for their limited budgets,

01:11:26.100 --> 01:11:28.920
outlandish concepts, and questionable performances,

01:11:29.340 --> 01:11:32.560
but with enough haunted houses, zombies, ape

01:11:32.560 --> 01:11:35.119
men, and devil bats to keep you up at night.

01:11:35.770 --> 01:11:39.510
This is the Poverty Row Picture Show, and I dare

01:11:39.510 --> 01:11:47.270
you to sleep through these nightmares. And perhaps

01:11:47.270 --> 01:11:50.930
this week's movie, Invisible Ghost, could be

01:11:50.930 --> 01:11:53.489
the first to challenge your droopy eyelids at

01:11:53.489 --> 01:11:57.750
the end of a hard day's work. This film is the

01:11:57.750 --> 01:12:00.810
second of nine pictures that Bela Lugosi made

01:12:00.810 --> 01:12:05.380
with quintessential Poverty Row studio PRC. By

01:12:05.380 --> 01:12:09.680
1941, Bela Lugosi was relegated to minor supporting

01:12:09.680 --> 01:12:13.119
roles in the horror films at Universal Studios.

01:12:13.399 --> 01:12:16.939
But on Poverty Row, producers eager for even

01:12:16.939 --> 01:12:20.319
the dimmest of stars readily gave Lugosi top

01:12:20.319 --> 01:12:23.699
billing in their pictures. For Lugosi, it was

01:12:23.699 --> 01:12:26.699
truly better to be a king in hell than a servant

01:12:26.699 --> 01:12:29.300
in heaven. And while the devil bat was a hit,

01:12:29.460 --> 01:12:32.420
his follow -up project, Invisible Ghost, leaves

01:12:32.420 --> 01:12:38.180
much to be desired in the ways of... Oh, well,

01:12:38.239 --> 01:12:40.899
hello, Pierre. And what is it you are holding

01:12:40.899 --> 01:12:48.979
behind your... Oh, a bouquet of flowers. Lilac's

01:12:48.979 --> 01:12:52.939
my favorite. No, no, Pierre, there is nothing

01:12:52.939 --> 01:12:57.000
wrong. I was just concerned about your whereabouts

01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:01.960
these several weeks. And how is your skin holding

01:13:01.960 --> 01:13:07.020
up? Ah, breaking it in, yes, yes, that makes

01:13:07.020 --> 01:13:11.819
sense, Pierre. Oh, all right, I will see you

01:13:11.819 --> 01:13:16.500
later. Yes, my place at Matthews. Oh, he will

01:13:16.500 --> 01:13:20.239
let you in, I am sure. Well, farewell. Farewell,

01:13:20.239 --> 01:13:24.300
Pierre, my little rodent friend. Listeners, listen

01:13:24.300 --> 01:13:27.600
closely. Pierre has returned with a peace offering,

01:13:27.819 --> 01:13:31.100
or so it would seem. Time will tell if he can

01:13:31.100 --> 01:13:33.819
be trusted since that fateful night with the

01:13:33.819 --> 01:13:37.060
meat cleaver. That night where I overpowered

01:13:37.060 --> 01:13:41.470
him and turned the cleaver on my friend. I thought

01:13:41.470 --> 01:13:44.649
that was the end until I returned to Camp Kaiju

01:13:44.649 --> 01:13:47.210
and discovered that my producers had stitched

01:13:47.210 --> 01:13:50.510
Pierre back together like a furry Humpty Dumpty

01:13:50.510 --> 01:13:54.050
from hell. And now Pierre's smile is forever

01:13:54.050 --> 01:13:57.350
fixed on his face and burned into my nightmares.

01:13:58.810 --> 01:14:02.329
Well, allow me to place these lilacs in a vase

01:14:02.329 --> 01:14:06.340
while I continue to review Invisible Ghost. The

01:14:06.340 --> 01:14:09.560
film was directed by Joseph H. Lewis, whom we

01:14:09.560 --> 01:14:13.220
discussed on Boys of the City. Here, too, Lewis

01:14:13.220 --> 01:14:16.439
valiantly imbues the picture with camera flourishes

01:14:16.439 --> 01:14:19.939
and dramatic lighting. However, the film cannot

01:14:19.939 --> 01:14:23.800
overcome its nonsensical story, whereby Lugosi

01:14:23.800 --> 01:14:26.520
mourns his wife whom he thought had run away,

01:14:26.760 --> 01:14:29.960
but who secretly lives on the premises. And when

01:14:29.960 --> 01:14:32.800
Lugosi sees her, he is bewitched into a murderous

01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:36.220
fugue state. Night after night this happens and

01:14:36.220 --> 01:14:39.039
as the bodies mount, you are left wondering why

01:14:39.039 --> 01:14:42.680
A. folks are still living in the house and B.

01:14:42.840 --> 01:14:48.020
why the detective does not suspect Lugosi. Shamefully,

01:14:48.020 --> 01:14:51.260
the film takes on unintentional madness when

01:14:51.260 --> 01:14:53.739
the police are willing to apprehend the one black

01:14:53.739 --> 01:14:56.899
character for the crimes until Lugosi sees his

01:14:56.899 --> 01:14:59.659
wife and drops into his crazed somnambulance.

01:15:01.189 --> 01:15:03.789
Overall, invisible ghosts will leave you scratching

01:15:03.789 --> 01:15:07.890
your head. However, Lugosi and Clarence Muse,

01:15:08.010 --> 01:15:11.090
who plays Evans the butler, provide enough charm

01:15:11.090 --> 01:15:14.350
to endure this 60 -minute cavalcade of confusion

01:15:14.350 --> 01:15:17.569
that will leave you wanting to know what is next

01:15:17.569 --> 01:15:21.789
on the Poverty Row Picture Show. Well, well,

01:15:21.789 --> 01:15:25.789
listeners, it is our first zombie movie called

01:15:25.789 --> 01:15:55.729
Thing of the Zombies. and warner brothers always

01:15:55.729 --> 01:15:58.229
alert to progress has included the amazing phenomenon

01:15:58.229 --> 01:16:00.710
of bringing the dead back to life in the walking

01:16:00.710 --> 01:16:04.050
dead an unusual horror mystery starring boris

01:16:04.050 --> 01:16:07.810
carlo supported by ricardo cortez edmund gwen

01:16:07.810 --> 01:16:12.649
marguerite churchill barton mclean warren hull

01:16:48.250 --> 01:16:50.710
Back to Dracula's daughter. You know, sometimes

01:16:50.710 --> 01:16:52.569
I think with some movies we can kind of just

01:16:52.569 --> 01:16:54.829
like wrap up the themes into our like personal

01:16:54.829 --> 01:16:57.470
breakdowns at the end of the episode. I do want

01:16:57.470 --> 01:16:59.310
to leave a little more space to talk about some

01:16:59.310 --> 01:17:01.229
of these themes because they are so complicated.

01:17:01.689 --> 01:17:03.989
I can pose a question to kind of get the conversation

01:17:03.989 --> 01:17:07.930
going. Do you think Zaleska, the Countess Zaleska,

01:17:07.949 --> 01:17:11.869
Dracula's daughter, is vilified for her lesbianism?

01:17:11.909 --> 01:17:13.649
We've talked about this a little bit earlier

01:17:13.649 --> 01:17:15.829
in the episode. Do you think the movie makes

01:17:15.829 --> 01:17:19.119
her out to be... And I'm saying, like, maybe

01:17:19.119 --> 01:17:21.460
the movie is doing this. Is it making her into

01:17:21.460 --> 01:17:24.260
a villain, making her into a monster for her

01:17:24.260 --> 01:17:27.880
sexual identity? Or is it possible to read against

01:17:27.880 --> 01:17:31.760
the grain and see Countess Zaleska as a sympathetic

01:17:31.760 --> 01:17:35.899
figure who the movie is trying to, you know,

01:17:35.920 --> 01:17:38.720
trying to make us, the audience, identify with

01:17:38.720 --> 01:17:41.420
what she's going through, her persecution, not

01:17:41.420 --> 01:17:44.359
only with her sexual orientation, but also the

01:17:44.359 --> 01:17:47.310
fact that her father is this, like, you know,

01:17:47.310 --> 01:17:50.569
legendary figure of evil, really, who still kind

01:17:50.569 --> 01:17:53.970
of continues to haunt her after his death. This

01:17:53.970 --> 01:17:55.989
is a rambling question, but how do you think

01:17:55.989 --> 01:17:59.149
the movie truly portrays the Countess Zaleska

01:17:59.149 --> 01:18:02.710
figure? Well, I would say that she's a really

01:18:02.710 --> 01:18:04.989
compelling and complex character because she

01:18:04.989 --> 01:18:08.930
plays both predator and prey. And unlike her

01:18:08.930 --> 01:18:11.590
father, she doesn't revel in that power. She

01:18:11.590 --> 01:18:14.819
kind of despises it. Her struggle with vampirism

01:18:14.819 --> 01:18:17.500
is more akin to a psychological breakdown than

01:18:17.500 --> 01:18:20.199
to that predator prey dynamic we typically see

01:18:20.199 --> 01:18:23.300
in horror films. And I think that her struggle

01:18:23.300 --> 01:18:26.399
can be seen as a metaphor for female autonomy

01:18:26.399 --> 01:18:29.979
in a patriarchal world. You know, she she seeks

01:18:29.979 --> 01:18:32.039
help from a man thinking he can, you know, quote,

01:18:32.060 --> 01:18:35.420
cure her. But he fails her just as so many institutions

01:18:35.420 --> 01:18:40.539
fail women. And I would say, you know, that scene

01:18:40.539 --> 01:18:44.539
between her and Lily. Even though she is the

01:18:44.539 --> 01:18:46.920
predator in that scene, I still feel bad for

01:18:46.920 --> 01:18:50.039
her that she can't just live her life and be

01:18:50.039 --> 01:18:52.000
with women the way she wants to be. There has

01:18:52.000 --> 01:18:56.119
to be her manservant going out and kind of fabricating

01:18:56.119 --> 01:19:00.800
this lie. And I was wondering, though, what you

01:19:00.800 --> 01:19:03.880
guys thought of her ring and kind of the symbolism

01:19:03.880 --> 01:19:07.239
there. Have any thoughts? Maybe we could talk

01:19:07.239 --> 01:19:09.319
about that later. I just wanted to, like, it

01:19:09.319 --> 01:19:10.800
was definitely something I wanted to ask you

01:19:10.800 --> 01:19:13.760
about. But I consider her to be a sympathetic

01:19:13.760 --> 01:19:18.680
character, very much so. Yeah, I agree with that,

01:19:18.819 --> 01:19:26.119
Naomi. I think her, yes, she is killed, but I

01:19:26.119 --> 01:19:30.199
don't think we're supposed to go, yes, the monster's

01:19:30.199 --> 01:19:34.079
been killed. I think she's a tragic figure. in

01:19:34.079 --> 01:19:36.659
the great tradition of all universal monster

01:19:36.659 --> 01:19:42.399
movies, Frankenstein, Wolfman, Bride. And yeah,

01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:45.140
I was thinking about her ring too, because that's

01:19:45.140 --> 01:19:48.119
really interesting. I was thinking about how

01:19:48.119 --> 01:19:52.359
that's how she seduces her victims, contrasted

01:19:52.359 --> 01:19:56.699
with Dracula in, I guess, her father in his movie.

01:19:57.220 --> 01:20:00.220
He's very hands -on, like he touches his victims.

01:20:02.170 --> 01:20:05.449
throttles them or whatever and maybe it's maybe

01:20:05.449 --> 01:20:07.529
it's a maybe it's a censorship thing like we

01:20:07.529 --> 01:20:10.949
can't we actually can't depict a woman murdering

01:20:10.949 --> 01:20:15.529
people so we'll do it with this hypnosis ring

01:20:15.529 --> 01:20:19.350
tool regardless i think it fits her character

01:20:19.350 --> 01:20:24.170
i think it it lends an air of mystery to her

01:20:24.170 --> 01:20:28.909
like the film is so the pacing of this film is

01:20:28.909 --> 01:20:34.279
so i find I don't find it slow necessarily. I

01:20:34.279 --> 01:20:38.779
find it like enticing. It's an enticing pace.

01:20:39.039 --> 01:20:41.819
Like what's that wonderful quote? The longest

01:20:41.819 --> 01:20:44.539
kiss that never was. I love that quote because

01:20:44.539 --> 01:20:48.220
I think that encapsulates the whole movie. And

01:20:48.220 --> 01:20:51.380
I think the ring and the hypnosis effect, it

01:20:51.380 --> 01:20:57.420
just supports that take of the direction. Yeah.

01:20:57.739 --> 01:21:01.109
Yeah, that's interesting. I like that. And I

01:21:01.109 --> 01:21:03.310
guess I've heard of other, you know, jewelry

01:21:03.310 --> 01:21:06.310
kind of being a part of, you know, Gothic storytelling.

01:21:06.909 --> 01:21:09.670
You know, there's the film Crimson Peak and the

01:21:09.670 --> 01:21:13.090
film Rebecca. And yeah, I think that's really

01:21:13.090 --> 01:21:15.729
interesting. I was going to ask you guys what

01:21:15.729 --> 01:21:17.689
you thought about Sandor, but maybe we'll get

01:21:17.689 --> 01:21:20.010
there. I don't know. I want to talk about Sandor.

01:21:20.149 --> 01:21:22.930
I know. I wanted to hear your thoughts on Sandor.

01:21:23.090 --> 01:21:27.159
I just, yeah, go ahead. Let me hear it. Can I

01:21:27.159 --> 01:21:30.100
respond to what both of you said before we talk

01:21:30.100 --> 01:21:31.680
about Sandor? Sorry, both of you just raised

01:21:31.680 --> 01:21:33.659
so many good points. Really, a lot of fascinating

01:21:33.659 --> 01:21:36.899
stuff there. And Zaleska has so many quotes about

01:21:36.899 --> 01:21:39.520
freedom. Like, finally, I'll be free. You know,

01:21:39.560 --> 01:21:42.300
if I can escape the shadow of my father. And

01:21:42.300 --> 01:21:45.760
I think, like, the unfortunate implication that

01:21:45.760 --> 01:21:48.420
the movie should be criticized for is that if

01:21:48.420 --> 01:21:52.529
she... like escapes her urges, like her attractions,

01:21:52.710 --> 01:21:54.829
you know, then she'll be free. That's the negative

01:21:54.829 --> 01:21:56.729
side of that interpretation or of that line.

01:21:57.029 --> 01:22:00.050
But I think the other interpretation, like you

01:22:00.050 --> 01:22:02.909
were referring to Naomi, you know, she's longing

01:22:02.909 --> 01:22:05.529
to be free. I think she feels trapped all the

01:22:05.529 --> 01:22:08.810
time, you know, in her sexuality, living like,

01:22:08.909 --> 01:22:11.510
you know, with this, with her father figure.

01:22:12.069 --> 01:22:14.670
You know, I was really touched and really moved

01:22:14.670 --> 01:22:17.189
by those quotes about like, I just need freedom.

01:22:17.250 --> 01:22:20.390
Finally, I can be free. Working with Dr. Garth

01:22:20.390 --> 01:22:22.170
is probably not the way to achieve that, but

01:22:22.170 --> 01:22:25.010
it's a very moving theme for sure. And I just

01:22:25.010 --> 01:22:29.510
think this movie persists and is still so beloved

01:22:29.510 --> 01:22:32.270
by some people because it's possible to read

01:22:32.270 --> 01:22:36.069
her character. I know I used the term or the

01:22:36.069 --> 01:22:38.470
phrase against the grain before, but I think

01:22:38.470 --> 01:22:40.569
that's the power of a movie like this. We can

01:22:40.569 --> 01:22:43.970
maybe recognize the negative and harmful things

01:22:43.970 --> 01:22:46.770
that the movie is doing in terms of Zaleska's

01:22:46.770 --> 01:22:49.649
sexuality. But we can also sort of, you know,

01:22:49.649 --> 01:22:51.989
come up with our own reading of the character.

01:22:52.390 --> 01:22:54.409
And I think if we do that, then she is a really

01:22:54.409 --> 01:22:56.770
powerful and sympathetic figure. I just wanted

01:22:56.770 --> 01:22:58.489
to bring up those quotes about freedom because

01:22:58.489 --> 01:23:01.010
I found that really fascinating. No, I so agree

01:23:01.010 --> 01:23:03.510
with you. Like, I think even the ending, we can

01:23:03.510 --> 01:23:06.090
sort of, you know, rewrite however we want in

01:23:06.090 --> 01:23:09.270
our minds, like, and look at her not as a woman

01:23:09.270 --> 01:23:12.189
who's doomed by her desire, but as a woman who's

01:23:12.189 --> 01:23:15.350
like freed from a repressive mortal world that

01:23:15.350 --> 01:23:18.020
is not ready for her. You know, maybe it's a

01:23:18.020 --> 01:23:21.319
good thing. It's tragic, but I like that you

01:23:21.319 --> 01:23:23.500
said the word free because I thought of that

01:23:23.500 --> 01:23:26.659
too. Yeah. That's a great way to put it, Naomi.

01:23:28.319 --> 01:23:30.560
Sorry. Now we can talk about Sandor if you want

01:23:30.560 --> 01:23:33.199
to. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to jump ahead. I

01:23:33.199 --> 01:23:35.140
just wanted to hear what you guys thought of

01:23:35.140 --> 01:23:41.180
Sandor. Yeah. I think... What do I think? All

01:23:41.180 --> 01:23:44.939
this is just... So this is my third time watching

01:23:44.939 --> 01:23:47.460
the movie. Every time Sandor is one of those

01:23:47.460 --> 01:23:50.220
characters that I grow more and more interested

01:23:50.220 --> 01:23:54.560
in. I want more of this character, his struggles.

01:23:55.159 --> 01:23:58.899
I think he talks about freedom too. Oh, he does

01:23:58.899 --> 01:24:00.960
at the end. That's why he kills Zaleska because

01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:05.640
she's going to give Dr. Garth eternal life. And

01:24:05.640 --> 01:24:09.680
Sandor says, you promised me this. I find, I

01:24:09.680 --> 01:24:14.899
find that tragic. And so there's that, but then.

01:24:19.520 --> 01:24:22.739
Sandor's depiction is very striking in this film.

01:24:23.000 --> 01:24:27.560
A very large person, man, masculine figure, I

01:24:27.560 --> 01:24:30.619
should say, who wears a lot of makeup, whose

01:24:30.619 --> 01:24:35.539
hair is styled a certain way that I think is

01:24:35.539 --> 01:24:41.600
more feminine. And his relationship with Zaleska.

01:24:42.380 --> 01:24:45.760
This man and woman relationship, and yet they

01:24:45.760 --> 01:24:49.699
have, I don't know, their own complex orientations.

01:24:49.920 --> 01:24:52.600
But what does it say about domesticity, which

01:24:52.600 --> 01:24:57.380
I read a lot in my readings? This subversion

01:24:57.380 --> 01:25:02.800
of the traditional heteronormative husband and

01:25:02.800 --> 01:25:06.899
wife relationship that they critique, I think,

01:25:06.960 --> 01:25:09.840
as characters. Okay, that's what I'm going to

01:25:09.840 --> 01:25:12.539
say. Yeah, you kind of understand where Sandor

01:25:12.539 --> 01:25:14.319
is coming. Well, I don't want to maybe give a

01:25:14.319 --> 01:25:18.479
plot spoiler at the end here. Sandor makes a

01:25:18.479 --> 01:25:20.819
decisive action, and you understand where he's

01:25:20.819 --> 01:25:22.899
coming from. You kind of want to do the same

01:25:22.899 --> 01:25:25.779
thing. You're like, why are you doing this? You

01:25:25.779 --> 01:25:28.899
sort of understand Sandor's frustration at certain

01:25:28.899 --> 01:25:31.960
characters not behaving in a way that seems true

01:25:31.960 --> 01:25:35.680
to who they are. I think this is the main fault

01:25:35.680 --> 01:25:39.619
or the critique of the film. it doesn't dig deep

01:25:39.619 --> 01:25:42.659
enough into these things. It gives for me, it's,

01:25:42.659 --> 01:25:46.220
it's very surface. Like, Oh, I see because Sandor

01:25:46.220 --> 01:25:48.239
has that one line. Okay. But like, I want to

01:25:48.239 --> 01:25:52.079
dig more into his character and truly like, there's

01:25:52.079 --> 01:25:54.840
a version of this film where I'm probably bawling

01:25:54.840 --> 01:25:58.380
my eyes out at the end. Yeah. But we don't get

01:25:58.380 --> 01:26:01.100
to say though, that like the Sandor character

01:26:01.100 --> 01:26:04.260
kind of functions like a Renfield, but with like

01:26:04.260 --> 01:26:07.000
a little more agency. So like, he's not like

01:26:07.000 --> 01:26:09.500
a total groveling servant, you know, he kind

01:26:09.500 --> 01:26:12.100
of pushes her like towards her dark destiny for

01:26:12.100 --> 01:26:14.880
better or worse. You know, she's a companion

01:26:14.880 --> 01:26:18.600
to him, maybe even like a bit of a beard to him

01:26:18.600 --> 01:26:22.659
in his life. So I guess I just wonder, do you

01:26:22.659 --> 01:26:25.600
feel like he's a bit of a evolution from Renfield?

01:26:25.619 --> 01:26:28.199
Like, what does he have in common with a Renfield?

01:26:28.399 --> 01:26:30.819
Because I feel like he sort of plays that role,

01:26:30.979 --> 01:26:34.539
you know, but has more agency than Renfield did.

01:26:35.050 --> 01:26:36.970
That's interesting. I don't see Renfield as a

01:26:36.970 --> 01:26:39.750
particularly emotional figure, but I do see Sandor

01:26:39.750 --> 01:26:44.470
in that way. I think both Sandor and Zaleska

01:26:44.470 --> 01:26:48.569
are kind of representing that sexuality as a

01:26:48.569 --> 01:26:50.949
spectrum. I think maybe some of the categories

01:26:50.949 --> 01:26:54.590
that we often put people into are kind of defied

01:26:54.590 --> 01:26:57.289
by these two characters. So I think in the ways

01:26:57.289 --> 01:27:00.670
that I find Zaleska sympathetic and moving and

01:27:00.670 --> 01:27:03.949
powerful, I kind of find Sandor... poignant for

01:27:03.949 --> 01:27:06.789
the same thing i think for the same reason i

01:27:06.789 --> 01:27:09.529
think he has unspoken emotional desires that

01:27:09.529 --> 01:27:13.869
can never be met and that's that's like not a

01:27:13.869 --> 01:27:15.529
thought that i had with renfield at any point

01:27:15.529 --> 01:27:18.670
you know but they serve similar narrative functions

01:27:18.670 --> 01:27:21.050
but i think sandor like works better as an emotional

01:27:21.050 --> 01:27:24.050
figure in my opinion yeah i think that's super

01:27:24.050 --> 01:27:26.590
fair i was just thinking of a more as like an

01:27:26.590 --> 01:27:29.529
evolution of the assistant like of the helper

01:27:29.529 --> 01:27:33.920
uh he is more complex in that way I think it's

01:27:33.920 --> 01:27:41.520
really refreshing that we see the master -servant

01:27:41.520 --> 01:27:45.460
relationship where the woman is the one in charge

01:27:45.460 --> 01:27:49.579
and she has a man doing her bidding. I mean,

01:27:49.600 --> 01:27:54.779
so often it's the inverse or it's just two male

01:27:54.779 --> 01:27:57.920
characters doing their thing. You can see that

01:27:57.920 --> 01:28:01.840
imbalance. between Garth and his secretary, you

01:28:01.840 --> 01:28:04.760
know, they kind of have this really sexist way

01:28:04.760 --> 01:28:06.560
of talking with each other. You know, she's like

01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:09.460
playful and flirtatious, kind of the opposite

01:28:09.460 --> 01:28:13.180
of Zaleska in a lot of ways. And, you know, most

01:28:13.180 --> 01:28:15.359
importantly, she's interested in men and like,

01:28:15.380 --> 01:28:18.279
she kind of exists like to reinforce that idea.

01:28:18.359 --> 01:28:21.020
But anyway, like her interactions with Garth

01:28:21.020 --> 01:28:24.239
are really laced with sexism. Like he frequently

01:28:24.239 --> 01:28:27.670
undermines her competence and their banter. even

01:28:27.670 --> 01:28:29.649
though it's playful, I felt like it was really

01:28:29.649 --> 01:28:31.630
kind of like leaning into the nagging woman,

01:28:31.729 --> 01:28:35.529
exasperated man stereotype. So I love that you

01:28:35.529 --> 01:28:37.989
said that because I didn't even really kind of

01:28:37.989 --> 01:28:41.250
compare like that, you know, Boston's, you know,

01:28:41.250 --> 01:28:44.489
servant kind of thing. But I think we totally

01:28:44.489 --> 01:28:50.130
see it between, you know, Janet and Garth. Yeah.

01:28:50.569 --> 01:28:52.250
And there's a little bit of a class thing there,

01:28:52.289 --> 01:28:55.189
right? You know, like Zaleska and Sandor, like

01:28:55.189 --> 01:28:58.399
she has the financial power she has the higher

01:28:58.399 --> 01:29:00.539
social standing and you could say that about

01:29:00.539 --> 01:29:03.899
garth and and janet as well so i i think like

01:29:03.899 --> 01:29:05.979
there's some interesting class stuff in this

01:29:05.979 --> 01:29:08.500
movie too which we have not touched on at all

01:29:08.500 --> 01:29:10.779
and probably don't have time to do so but you

01:29:10.779 --> 01:29:12.779
know the power relations in this movie are also

01:29:12.779 --> 01:29:15.060
somewhat dependent on class i would say as well

01:29:15.060 --> 01:29:19.340
that's interesting yeah good good call There's

01:29:19.340 --> 01:29:21.279
just so much to talk about in this movie, but

01:29:21.279 --> 01:29:24.199
we are almost out of time. So I feel like we

01:29:24.199 --> 01:29:26.539
should probably get into our individual breakdowns

01:29:26.539 --> 01:29:28.979
and maybe wrap up some other stuff into those

01:29:28.979 --> 01:29:31.359
final takeaways, if that works for you both.

01:29:32.300 --> 01:29:37.720
Absolutely. Cool. All right. So what, Naomi,

01:29:37.840 --> 01:29:39.539
we'll start with you if that's all right. What

01:29:39.539 --> 01:29:41.340
would you put in the good category for this movie?

01:29:42.439 --> 01:29:46.279
The good? Well, the cinematography. I loved the

01:29:46.279 --> 01:29:50.590
queer, I guess. undertones, overtones, like subtlety

01:29:50.590 --> 01:29:56.750
of the time. I loved the shortness of it, even

01:29:56.750 --> 01:29:59.010
though I was not prepared for it. I thought that

01:29:59.010 --> 01:30:01.810
like, it was tight. It was zippy, even though

01:30:01.810 --> 01:30:04.569
it was quiet and atmospheric. Like I never was

01:30:04.569 --> 01:30:07.289
bored. I didn't feel that, you know, they could

01:30:07.289 --> 01:30:09.210
have cut that scene or whatever, even though

01:30:09.210 --> 01:30:11.369
maybe if I watched it again, I might feel that

01:30:11.369 --> 01:30:15.449
way. But I just thought it was a film that would

01:30:15.449 --> 01:30:18.399
remain interesting to people. Today, for many

01:30:18.399 --> 01:30:22.359
reasons, thematically and executionally. So,

01:30:22.380 --> 01:30:25.359
yeah, I just I liked what it said and how it

01:30:25.359 --> 01:30:28.579
was made and hearing all the things that it was

01:30:28.579 --> 01:30:31.140
up against. I even have a greater appreciation

01:30:31.140 --> 01:30:36.960
for it. Yeah. Definitely. Excuse me. Vincent,

01:30:37.039 --> 01:30:39.779
what about you for the good stuff? Yeah, everything

01:30:39.779 --> 01:30:41.319
we've already mentioned. There's just a couple

01:30:41.319 --> 01:30:45.439
of things I wanted to shout out. Back to Sandor's.

01:30:46.119 --> 01:30:49.300
I don't know, sexuality or way he's presented.

01:30:50.020 --> 01:30:52.439
I don't know if this is intent, if this was an

01:30:52.439 --> 01:30:55.859
intentional cut edit in the film, but there was

01:30:55.859 --> 01:30:58.560
a moment where I forget who says it. It might've

01:30:58.560 --> 01:31:02.439
been, it might've been Garth, but he says a line

01:31:02.439 --> 01:31:06.079
to Zaleska, the quote, the lady in question,

01:31:06.159 --> 01:31:12.739
but then the camera cuts to Sandor. And just

01:31:12.739 --> 01:31:16.100
that, that edit, I was like, Are you trying to,

01:31:16.159 --> 01:31:18.739
I don't know, am I reading too much into it?

01:31:18.760 --> 01:31:22.220
But there's a clear, who's the lady in question?

01:31:22.479 --> 01:31:25.079
And then it cut to Sandor. I was like, okay,

01:31:25.220 --> 01:31:30.100
that's something to think about. On another note,

01:31:30.180 --> 01:31:36.739
the costuming of Gloria Olden in this movie is

01:31:36.739 --> 01:31:41.500
gorgeous, sumptuous, like her dresses and the

01:31:41.500 --> 01:31:45.149
way she's lit and the way she's costumed. She

01:31:45.149 --> 01:31:50.130
is a dominating screen presence. And every time

01:31:50.130 --> 01:31:53.229
she's on screen, I want more of her. This is

01:31:53.229 --> 01:31:56.869
such a great, compelling performance. And she's

01:31:56.869 --> 01:31:58.670
hardly doing anything, but that's her power.

01:31:59.250 --> 01:32:02.670
So, yeah. I can't believe I forgot the costumes.

01:32:02.890 --> 01:32:05.729
I'm so glad you shouted that out. They were so

01:32:05.729 --> 01:32:11.140
beautiful. Yeah. So beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Fully

01:32:11.140 --> 01:32:13.479
agree. Yeah, like she I think maybe she enters

01:32:13.479 --> 01:32:16.159
the movie like about 10 minutes in. And it doesn't

01:32:16.159 --> 01:32:18.060
the movie doesn't start slow or whatever. But

01:32:18.060 --> 01:32:19.979
it starts with some like campy humor, which I'll

01:32:19.979 --> 01:32:22.100
probably mention in a minute here. But then like

01:32:22.100 --> 01:32:25.760
she like enters the frame where like we can only

01:32:25.760 --> 01:32:27.659
see her eyes because she's wearing like a black

01:32:27.659 --> 01:32:30.739
mask over her face. So this is just to your point,

01:32:30.800 --> 01:32:33.199
Vincent, like it's it's so arresting. Like the

01:32:33.199 --> 01:32:34.899
moment you see her on screen, you're like, oh,

01:32:34.979 --> 01:32:36.800
I'm paying attention. I want to see what's going

01:32:36.800 --> 01:32:39.140
on. You know, it's really, really well done.

01:32:39.220 --> 01:32:41.760
Yeah. I don't have too much to add to the good

01:32:41.760 --> 01:32:43.739
category. I fully agree with everything you both

01:32:43.739 --> 01:32:47.039
said. I would just make the comparison. This

01:32:47.039 --> 01:32:50.100
movie reminded me of some of the Val Lewton RKO

01:32:50.100 --> 01:32:53.199
horror movies from the early 40s, like I Walked

01:32:53.199 --> 01:32:55.960
With a Zombie, Cat People, The Seventh Victim,

01:32:55.960 --> 01:32:58.399
The Curse of the Cat People, which are like really

01:32:58.399 --> 01:33:02.319
tight, like 60 to 70 minutes. They also are horror

01:33:02.319 --> 01:33:04.500
movies, but they have kind of like themes beneath

01:33:04.500 --> 01:33:07.000
the surface that are really complicated, but

01:33:07.000 --> 01:33:09.479
hard to portray directly because of the production

01:33:09.479 --> 01:33:12.199
code, which didn't allow most of those themes

01:33:12.199 --> 01:33:15.770
to be. conveyed explicitly so i feel like dracula's

01:33:15.770 --> 01:33:18.630
daughter is kind of similar right like it's messy

01:33:18.630 --> 01:33:20.750
because of those things to use that word again

01:33:20.750 --> 01:33:24.310
i mean it's not perfect but it's so fascinating

01:33:24.310 --> 01:33:26.109
and i feel like honestly we could talk about

01:33:26.109 --> 01:33:28.010
it for another hour and still not mention all

01:33:28.010 --> 01:33:30.649
the themes and you know sort of like mysteries

01:33:30.649 --> 01:33:33.310
in this movie so whenever you have a movie that

01:33:33.310 --> 01:33:36.770
complex i'm always gonna appreciate that but

01:33:36.770 --> 01:33:41.529
there's a lot of bad stuff here as well all I'm

01:33:41.529 --> 01:33:44.029
just going to really briefly start it off. I

01:33:44.029 --> 01:33:45.710
think both of you agree with me, and then you

01:33:45.710 --> 01:33:49.090
both can take it away from here. But it's got

01:33:49.090 --> 01:33:51.170
to be Dr. Jeffrey Garth, right? The worst part

01:33:51.170 --> 01:33:57.289
of this movie. Yeah. Boo. Boo. Boo. And it's

01:33:57.289 --> 01:34:00.029
not just him, but it's the fact that for all

01:34:00.029 --> 01:34:02.970
these fascinating themes about sexuality, it

01:34:02.970 --> 01:34:05.109
disappointingly ends, as we already talked about,

01:34:05.189 --> 01:34:07.779
with the Countess Zaleska. wanting to have a

01:34:07.779 --> 01:34:09.880
heteronormative relationship with him and although

01:34:09.880 --> 01:34:12.000
it's a strange one where she wants to give him

01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:14.840
eternal life but you know that ultimately is

01:34:14.840 --> 01:34:16.859
what happens and that's just so disappointing

01:34:16.859 --> 01:34:18.760
that that's the route that the movie takes you

01:34:18.760 --> 01:34:22.300
know yeah totally it feels very safe and very

01:34:22.300 --> 01:34:26.260
like predictable checking a box kind of you know

01:34:26.260 --> 01:34:31.859
decision there yeah oh but like oh but i'm also

01:34:31.859 --> 01:34:35.880
like like before even in the midst of that like

01:34:36.239 --> 01:34:40.920
When Janet's lying on the table and Holden, to

01:34:40.920 --> 01:34:46.340
her credit, gives such a longing look. And it's,

01:34:46.340 --> 01:34:50.319
you know, is that the tragedy too? She's choosing

01:34:50.319 --> 01:34:55.680
this safe, risk -free life at the expense of

01:34:55.680 --> 01:34:59.939
her true nature. I think that, again, that kiss

01:34:59.939 --> 01:35:02.399
moment, or sorry, the kiss that doesn't happen.

01:35:03.360 --> 01:35:06.960
Wow, I keep coming back to that. Thanks to Naomi,

01:35:07.060 --> 01:35:09.420
what you brought up. I hadn't thought about it

01:35:09.420 --> 01:35:14.619
that hard before. That's tough. Yeah. I feel

01:35:14.619 --> 01:35:16.760
like it's the kind of movie where even the flaws,

01:35:17.020 --> 01:35:18.539
you know, you look at them and you're like, but

01:35:18.539 --> 01:35:21.060
what if? Like, what if they were mandated by

01:35:21.060 --> 01:35:22.680
the production code, but like the filmmakers

01:35:22.680 --> 01:35:25.159
sort of had a different intention in mind that

01:35:25.159 --> 01:35:27.840
they couldn't. fully put on screen. And I don't

01:35:27.840 --> 01:35:29.319
want to give the filmmakers too much credit.

01:35:29.399 --> 01:35:31.319
I don't think it's entirely due to the production

01:35:31.319 --> 01:35:33.680
code that some of these flaws are in the movie.

01:35:33.800 --> 01:35:37.619
And I do think that it's kind of questionable

01:35:37.619 --> 01:35:40.300
depiction of homosexuality as being like, you

01:35:40.300 --> 01:35:44.699
know, something that makes you atypical or unusual

01:35:44.699 --> 01:35:47.859
or whatever, as the movie suggests is an unfortunate

01:35:47.859 --> 01:35:50.439
depiction, of course. But it's just the kind

01:35:50.439 --> 01:35:52.680
of movie where you're like, man, there's some

01:35:52.680 --> 01:35:54.539
bad stuff, but even the bad stuff is fascinating,

01:35:54.739 --> 01:35:58.119
you know? Yeah, I totally agree. And I think

01:35:58.119 --> 01:36:01.439
the way people view it has potential to change

01:36:01.439 --> 01:36:04.460
too as time goes on. You know, I think that some

01:36:04.460 --> 01:36:07.220
people would have seen that movie, you know,

01:36:07.220 --> 01:36:10.199
maybe even 10 years ago and said, well, is she

01:36:10.199 --> 01:36:14.119
a lesbian or is she straight? And society has

01:36:14.119 --> 01:36:16.899
evolved as such to where we see queerness many

01:36:16.899 --> 01:36:20.579
different ways. You know, there's bisexuality,

01:36:20.579 --> 01:36:23.579
there's pansexuality, there's all these different

01:36:23.579 --> 01:36:27.539
shades. And I think that as we evolve as a species,

01:36:27.880 --> 01:36:30.119
we, you know, there could be more interpretations

01:36:30.119 --> 01:36:31.939
in the future that we don't even know about.

01:36:32.500 --> 01:36:35.359
So it would be interesting, you know, if you

01:36:35.359 --> 01:36:38.720
read a review of this, like every 20 years, you

01:36:38.720 --> 01:36:40.720
know, it would say some of the same things, but

01:36:40.720 --> 01:36:43.420
I think there would be some evolutions too in

01:36:43.420 --> 01:36:46.180
the way it's received. Definitely. And I think

01:36:46.180 --> 01:36:48.140
that's why it's still, you know, written about

01:36:48.140 --> 01:36:49.939
pretty frequently. I think there was a book in

01:36:49.939 --> 01:36:52.720
2017 focused entirely on this movie, which is

01:36:52.720 --> 01:36:55.710
kind of amazing. Well, I don't want to take away

01:36:55.710 --> 01:36:59.069
from anything you were saying, Naomi. No, the

01:36:59.069 --> 01:37:01.729
only other bad thing I would say, which is not

01:37:01.729 --> 01:37:05.510
surprising, is there's no people of color that

01:37:05.510 --> 01:37:08.689
I can tell in the film at all. Not shocking,

01:37:08.890 --> 01:37:15.390
but it would have been nice. Agreed. Yeah. My

01:37:15.390 --> 01:37:20.149
overarching bad thing is I feel like the attempts

01:37:20.149 --> 01:37:25.899
at humor in this movie are extremely I don't

01:37:25.899 --> 01:37:29.420
think the comedy works at all. Every time it's

01:37:29.420 --> 01:37:32.800
tried in this film, the actors don't have chemistry.

01:37:33.060 --> 01:37:37.680
It's poorly written. It's too sticky. And the

01:37:37.680 --> 01:37:40.119
amount of screen time we spend on trying to tie

01:37:40.119 --> 01:37:44.380
Dr. Garth's bow tie, like, stake me through the

01:37:44.380 --> 01:37:49.739
heart. What's going on? Get on with it. I did

01:37:49.739 --> 01:37:52.100
not like that either. I didn't understand. Like,

01:37:52.180 --> 01:37:55.350
what? This has to have some sort of relevance

01:37:55.350 --> 01:38:00.449
later. Yeah, it did. It kept going. Yes, very

01:38:00.449 --> 01:38:04.729
weird. The comedy, for me, is a bummer in this

01:38:04.729 --> 01:38:07.630
movie. I was going to put this in the campy category,

01:38:07.770 --> 01:38:10.270
but for me, what you're talking about, Vincent,

01:38:10.310 --> 01:38:12.630
that starts right away with that policeman character

01:38:12.630 --> 01:38:15.850
who's really cowardly and inept and just has

01:38:15.850 --> 01:38:18.630
a funny mustache and is kind of just a bumbling

01:38:18.630 --> 01:38:21.109
fool, basically. It's a strange choice to start

01:38:21.109 --> 01:38:23.689
the movie because, like, he and another police

01:38:23.689 --> 01:38:26.170
officer stumble upon the corpses of Renfield

01:38:26.170 --> 01:38:28.489
and Dracula. And meanwhile, you have this like

01:38:28.489 --> 01:38:30.489
buffoon over here. It's like, what's going on?

01:38:30.510 --> 01:38:34.430
You know, it's not played. It's not played as

01:38:34.430 --> 01:38:37.890
it would be in that situation. Right. It's played

01:38:37.890 --> 01:38:40.470
for laughs. I'm like, that's wrong. Yeah. Sorry.

01:38:42.109 --> 01:38:44.390
It's a strange choice to start the movie. Yeah.

01:38:46.590 --> 01:38:49.130
I actually, you know, the one comedic thing,

01:38:49.229 --> 01:38:51.289
like I sort of like the scene where Janet is

01:38:51.289 --> 01:38:54.250
like calling Zaleska's house and like posing

01:38:54.250 --> 01:38:56.510
as different characters to like disrupt the meeting

01:38:56.510 --> 01:38:59.550
between Garth and Zaleska. And that whole scene,

01:38:59.590 --> 01:39:02.710
I was like, Janet is wonderful. Like she's so

01:39:02.710 --> 01:39:05.869
funny and charismatic and magnetic. What do you

01:39:05.869 --> 01:39:08.430
see in Dr. Garth, Janet? Like get out of there.

01:39:08.609 --> 01:39:11.930
Like any, you know, any sane person. Sorry, I

01:39:11.930 --> 01:39:15.399
shouldn't say that. You know, if I were Dr. Garth,

01:39:15.399 --> 01:39:16.960
I would answer the phone and be like, you're

01:39:16.960 --> 01:39:19.600
wonderful. I love you. Like, you know, but of

01:39:19.600 --> 01:39:22.560
course, Dr. Garth is this like terrible sexist

01:39:22.560 --> 01:39:24.279
condescending figure. So we don't get that in

01:39:24.279 --> 01:39:26.020
the movie. But I do like the Janet character.

01:39:26.159 --> 01:39:28.039
I think she has moments of humor and kind of

01:39:28.039 --> 01:39:31.359
energy, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I think she's breezy

01:39:31.359 --> 01:39:34.979
and fun. She's written really well to kind of

01:39:34.979 --> 01:39:37.819
contrast, you know, the good woman versus bad

01:39:37.819 --> 01:39:41.760
woman. You know, she gets a happy ending, but

01:39:41.760 --> 01:39:45.479
women like Zaleska do not. And, you know, she

01:39:45.479 --> 01:39:48.479
is very likable. And I did like that scene too.

01:39:48.600 --> 01:39:53.800
But I do feel that her main purpose is to kind

01:39:53.800 --> 01:39:57.659
of be an opposite, to provide contrast to Zaleska.

01:39:57.939 --> 01:40:00.560
Yeah. It's a limited character and a limited

01:40:00.560 --> 01:40:05.539
role for sure. Yeah. Anything else in the campy

01:40:05.539 --> 01:40:08.609
category before we move on to our ratings? Yeah,

01:40:08.630 --> 01:40:11.909
I had some regarding Sandor. I thought maybe

01:40:11.909 --> 01:40:14.390
some of his, you know, he was probably the most

01:40:14.390 --> 01:40:17.130
campy character for me. You know, he's kind of

01:40:17.130 --> 01:40:19.390
constantly brooding in the background, like,

01:40:19.409 --> 01:40:22.689
lurking in doorways. And, like, he just delivers

01:40:22.689 --> 01:40:25.850
these, like, melodramatic one -liners with such

01:40:25.850 --> 01:40:28.890
intense seriousness that, like, I don't know,

01:40:28.930 --> 01:40:31.130
you can't help but kind of, like, it's sort of

01:40:31.130 --> 01:40:33.390
unintentionally hilarious at times. Like, or

01:40:33.390 --> 01:40:36.600
not hilarious, but quieter version of that. He's

01:40:36.600 --> 01:40:40.720
just so over the top. And I'd say there were

01:40:40.720 --> 01:40:44.619
some line deliveries from Gloria Holden as well.

01:40:44.699 --> 01:40:46.739
And facial expressions that were also a little

01:40:46.739 --> 01:40:49.659
overdramatic that felt campy boarding on not

01:40:49.659 --> 01:40:53.319
comical, but just felt that from today's perspective,

01:40:53.500 --> 01:40:56.640
it was a little overdramatic at times and felt

01:40:56.640 --> 01:40:59.739
a bit campy for me. Yeah. I love that you brought

01:40:59.739 --> 01:41:03.199
up Sandor because for me, this is a rare movie.

01:41:03.600 --> 01:41:06.770
Like when we, In terms of Camp Kaiju, when we

01:41:06.770 --> 01:41:08.750
talk about camp, it's usually like, oh, Godzilla

01:41:08.750 --> 01:41:12.510
movies are campy. But there is an entirely different

01:41:12.510 --> 01:41:16.590
context for camp within the queer culture. And

01:41:16.590 --> 01:41:22.930
I think Sandor is that. And I'll real quick definition

01:41:22.930 --> 01:41:26.670
from the National Archives, the UK National Archives.

01:41:26.909 --> 01:41:30.310
Okay, just a quick search. Camp, a word associated

01:41:30.310 --> 01:41:33.449
with theatricality, playfulness, and exaggeration.

01:41:33.960 --> 01:41:35.939
It's a term that can relate to aesthetics or

01:41:35.939 --> 01:41:38.100
the way someone acts and has long been connected

01:41:38.100 --> 01:41:42.920
to gay culture and communities. Yeah. I didn't

01:41:42.920 --> 01:41:46.199
even think really of the context in queer culture.

01:41:46.300 --> 01:41:49.460
That's very interesting. Just, you know, because.

01:41:49.850 --> 01:41:52.170
Camp can mean so many different things. There

01:41:52.170 --> 01:41:54.289
reminds me of a quote that I really love about

01:41:54.289 --> 01:41:56.609
Sandor. This quote is from Harry Benshoff, who

01:41:56.609 --> 01:41:58.930
wrote a really classic text about queerness in

01:41:58.930 --> 01:42:01.090
horror cinema. We should maybe mention that in

01:42:01.090 --> 01:42:02.670
the show notes as well, Vincent, I can give that

01:42:02.670 --> 01:42:06.050
to you. But Benshoff refers to Sandor as, quote,

01:42:06.149 --> 01:42:10.270
an overly coiffed surly queen, which I just think

01:42:10.270 --> 01:42:12.850
is like such a great way to describe him. I love

01:42:12.850 --> 01:42:14.869
it. And I think he means it in a complimentary

01:42:14.869 --> 01:42:19.260
way, you know? Yes, I think so. So as always

01:42:19.260 --> 01:42:21.380
on Camp Kaiju, we have four different ratings.

01:42:21.659 --> 01:42:24.140
Number one, it's a timeless classic. It definitely

01:42:24.140 --> 01:42:26.880
stands the test of time. Number two, there may

01:42:26.880 --> 01:42:28.880
be some antiquated moments, but overall it's

01:42:28.880 --> 01:42:31.720
great. It stands the test of time. Number three,

01:42:31.760 --> 01:42:34.300
it may be historically significant or just fun,

01:42:34.460 --> 01:42:37.060
but it does not stand the test of time. And our

01:42:37.060 --> 01:42:40.199
lowest rating, it's not worth revisiting. It

01:42:40.199 --> 01:42:44.260
definitely does not stand the test of time. Vincent,

01:42:44.380 --> 01:42:48.770
do you maybe want to go first? Sure. I think

01:42:48.770 --> 01:42:52.390
I've been all over the map again with this movie.

01:42:52.770 --> 01:42:57.229
But upon my third watching, I'll fall into the

01:42:57.229 --> 01:43:01.310
second to highest tier. I think there are some

01:43:01.310 --> 01:43:04.090
antiquated moments, but overall, it's great.

01:43:04.449 --> 01:43:07.510
It does stand the test of time because I think

01:43:07.510 --> 01:43:11.710
it's so, so important to talk about these things,

01:43:11.850 --> 01:43:16.449
the themes and representation. But then structurally,

01:43:16.470 --> 01:43:20.130
just from like a purely cinematic place, the

01:43:20.130 --> 01:43:25.850
comedy does not work. And I'm so bummed because

01:43:25.850 --> 01:43:29.569
I feel like this has the potential to be something

01:43:29.569 --> 01:43:36.789
truly tragic and poignant. And yeah. And Otto

01:43:36.789 --> 01:43:44.869
Kruger, stinker. That's no good. Yeah. We're

01:43:44.869 --> 01:43:48.409
all fully in agreement on that, I think. Maybe

01:43:48.409 --> 01:43:50.270
I'll go next real quick, and then you can have

01:43:50.270 --> 01:43:52.069
the last word, Naomi. Does that sound all right?

01:43:52.510 --> 01:43:55.409
Yeah, sure. Okay. Well, I agree with you, Vincent.

01:43:55.529 --> 01:43:57.289
I'm going to give it our second highest rating.

01:43:57.529 --> 01:43:59.989
I do think there are antiquated moments. I think

01:43:59.989 --> 01:44:03.130
viewing the movie's depiction of lesbianism with

01:44:03.130 --> 01:44:05.390
modern eyes, some things seem very questionable.

01:44:05.489 --> 01:44:09.250
Some of the depictions don't age very well. And

01:44:09.250 --> 01:44:11.390
again, just like the fact that the movie decides

01:44:11.390 --> 01:44:14.550
to ultimately focus on the love triangle between

01:44:14.550 --> 01:44:18.590
Garth and Zaleska and Janet is incredibly disappointing.

01:44:19.270 --> 01:44:21.470
Despite that, this is just such a fascinating,

01:44:21.529 --> 01:44:26.350
complex movie. Yeah, there's too much to say

01:44:26.350 --> 01:44:27.970
I can't say anymore, so I'm just going to leave

01:44:27.970 --> 01:44:32.310
it at that. Well, I am going to give it the highest

01:44:32.310 --> 01:44:34.550
rating. It's a timeless classic. It definitely

01:44:34.550 --> 01:44:38.359
stands the test of time. antiquated moments for

01:44:38.359 --> 01:44:41.859
me but to me it's just it's such was such a pleasure

01:44:41.859 --> 01:44:46.020
to watch this movie and it reminded me of characters

01:44:46.020 --> 01:44:49.880
that exist today that were probably influenced

01:44:49.880 --> 01:44:54.020
by this film so that gave me like a deeper appreciation

01:44:54.020 --> 01:44:57.460
for movies like Jennifer's Body you know where

01:44:57.460 --> 01:45:00.500
it's like wow this is a movie that's standing

01:45:00.500 --> 01:45:03.840
on the shoulders of movies like Dracula's Daughter

01:45:03.840 --> 01:45:10.279
and Cinema, for me, is as much anthropology as

01:45:10.279 --> 01:45:14.100
it is entertainment. And for this film is like

01:45:14.100 --> 01:45:18.100
such an intellectual and anthropological study

01:45:18.100 --> 01:45:22.880
of the time it was made, the representation of

01:45:22.880 --> 01:45:26.159
queer people in the media, you know, the evolving

01:45:26.159 --> 01:45:30.420
story of vampires and the lore behind that. It's

01:45:30.420 --> 01:45:33.020
just it for me, it worked. I liked it a lot.

01:45:33.079 --> 01:45:35.220
There were things I would change, things I don't

01:45:35.220 --> 01:45:39.279
like. But it is important enough that I think

01:45:39.279 --> 01:45:42.619
I would consider it a timeless classic. And as

01:45:42.619 --> 01:45:45.680
someone who has only seen it twice, I feel confident

01:45:45.680 --> 01:45:47.800
in giving it that. And I would watch it again

01:45:47.800 --> 01:45:50.920
and I think even get more out of it. So I'm going

01:45:50.920 --> 01:45:53.600
to go with that rating, the highest one. I love

01:45:53.600 --> 01:45:55.579
it. I'm very happy that we're ending with the

01:45:55.579 --> 01:45:57.739
highest rating. It seems, even though that's

01:45:57.739 --> 01:45:59.180
not the rating I gave it, it seems appropriate

01:45:59.180 --> 01:46:03.880
for this movie. I love that. Yeah. I think it's

01:46:03.880 --> 01:46:07.000
one of the best. Actually, I do think it's a

01:46:07.000 --> 01:46:09.399
top -tier Universal monster movie. I think it's

01:46:09.399 --> 01:46:12.819
highly underrated, underseen, and I am a champion

01:46:12.819 --> 01:46:15.239
for this movie whenever it comes up. So, Matt,

01:46:15.340 --> 01:46:18.130
thank you for choosing this movie. Yeah, thank

01:46:18.130 --> 01:46:21.050
you both for, you know, talking about it. I mean,

01:46:21.050 --> 01:46:23.810
and to everybody who is listening, whether you've

01:46:23.810 --> 01:46:25.949
seen this movie already or haven't seen it, just

01:46:25.949 --> 01:46:28.210
maybe watch it again or watch it for the first

01:46:28.210 --> 01:46:31.069
time. Read up on it. We'll add some links and,

01:46:31.069 --> 01:46:33.670
you know, work cited in the show notes. It's

01:46:33.670 --> 01:46:36.109
just such a fascinating movie. Please share your

01:46:36.109 --> 01:46:37.949
thoughts with us as well. We would love to hear

01:46:37.949 --> 01:46:40.970
them. Next time on Camp Kaiju, we're going to

01:46:40.970 --> 01:46:43.510
talk about Godzilla vs. Mothra. Stay tuned for

01:46:43.510 --> 01:46:45.989
that. And thank you again for hanging out, friends.

01:46:46.109 --> 01:46:48.670
Please rate and review wherever you listen. You

01:46:48.670 --> 01:46:51.270
can also share this podcast with a friend, subscribe

01:46:51.270 --> 01:46:53.810
to the website, and send us listener comments

01:46:53.810 --> 01:46:57.789
at campkaiju at gmail .com or on Instagram. Links

01:46:57.789 --> 01:47:00.050
in the show notes. If you'd like to be a featured

01:47:00.050 --> 01:47:03.829
voice on the show, leave a voicemail at 612 -470

01:47:03.829 --> 01:47:07.229
-2612 telling us about your favorite monster

01:47:07.229 --> 01:47:10.170
movies and memories. Finally, please check out

01:47:10.170 --> 01:47:13.369
our website, campkaijupodcast .com for more information.

01:47:14.220 --> 01:47:17.000
Camp Kaiju is recorded in Minneapolis, St. Paul,

01:47:17.039 --> 01:47:20.079
with Minya's Mailbox Music by Ben Cook Feltz.

01:47:20.399 --> 01:47:22.939
Thanks again, friends, and until next time, stay

01:47:22.939 --> 01:47:26.239
campy. Camp Kaiju is recorded in Minneapolis,

01:47:26.539 --> 01:47:29.619
St. Paul, with Minya's Mailbox Music by Ben Cook

01:47:29.619 --> 01:47:32.300
Feltz. Thanks again, friends, and until next

01:47:32.300 --> 01:47:36.079
time, stay campy. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by

01:47:36.079 --> 01:47:38.420
Zach Linder and the Zach Pack, powered by Coldwell

01:47:38.420 --> 01:47:41.439
Banker Realty. your source for real estate, home

01:47:41.439 --> 01:47:43.500
rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients,

01:47:43.819 --> 01:47:46.560
and residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach

01:47:46.560 --> 01:47:49.300
Pack today for real estate services, follow the

01:47:49.300 --> 01:47:52.060
Zach Pack on social media, and contact the Zach

01:47:52.060 --> 01:47:55.159
Pack for investment opportunities. Links in the

01:47:55.159 --> 01:48:02.079
show notes. Twilight, long shadows on the hillsides.

01:48:02.460 --> 01:48:08.760
Evil shadows. No, no peaceful shadows. The flutter

01:48:08.760 --> 01:48:12.180
of wings in the treetops. The wings of bats?

01:48:12.939 --> 01:48:16.859
No, no, the wings of birds. From far off, the

01:48:16.859 --> 01:48:20.939
barking of a dog. Barking because there are wolves

01:48:20.939 --> 01:48:23.520
about. Silence, I forbid you.