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Hello and welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Podcast.

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My name is Vincent Hannum and Matt Levine and we're here to talk about all of our favorite

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monster movies. The good, the bad, and the downright campy and asking if they stand the

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test of time. Traditional Kaiju, creature features, space invaders, the supernatural,

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and everything in between. All strange beasts are welcome here.

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All right, all right. Hey everybody, welcome back to camp. This is Vincent here, flying solo this

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week. Matt is still taking some well deserved time off and I had a little break in the schedule and

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I thought let's reshare the love we have for 1942's Cat People. So the conversation you'll hear

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after this isn't exactly a new episode but it is definitely worth listening to if you haven't

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checked it out already. It's back from season two of Camp Kaiju when Matt Levine was known as Le

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Spleen. Friends of the pod will get a chuckle out of that Matt Le Spleen Levine and before then I'm

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just gonna vamp here. I'm gonna tell you what's going on in my world, what's going on in the

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world of monster movies and just kind of create like a sitting around the campfire type feel. So

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thanks for listening, thanks for hanging out literally and we'll have a good time here for

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10-15 minutes. All right, let me get my notes up here. So gotta say thank you to our patrons,

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Jason, Chris, Sean, our anonymous patron, and Peggy. And special shout out to Sean. Sean runs a podcast

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all about giant robots, mechs if you will, mechas. Think about Power Rangers, Tokusatsu,

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the Japanese tradition there. So his podcast is called Toku for Two. I would definitely recommend

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friends of this podcast checking out Toku for Two. I think there's a good overlap there. The

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Venn diagram if you will does overlap. We've talked a little bit about mechs on campfire.

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We've talked about mechs on camp kaiju with the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers movie

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and within the Godzilla sphere, terror of Mechagodzilla for instance. Ultraman I would

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say definitely falls within the Tokusatsu umbrella 100%. Now is Ultraman a giant robot per se?

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No, though that was my impression for the longest time until of course I started digging deeper and

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okay it's a little more nuanced than that despite outward appearances. But anyways, Toku for Two,

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check them out. If you're interested in becoming a patron at Patreon you can visit us there,

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patreon.com slash camp kaiju. For as little as five dollars a month you can get discount on

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merchandise, events, personal thank yous, and priority comments. And later on in this little

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segment here I will read some some comments. I will dig into Minya's mailbox and feature your

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voices as much as I can. So whether or not you want to be a supporter please leave us comments

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wherever you listen. YouTube, Facebook, Instagram. Our email is campkaiju at gmail.com and our website

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is campkaijupodcast.com. And you know it you can also call the Kaiju hotline at 612-470-2612

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and leave your literal voice on the show. Now that's going to come in handy when we get into

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some trivia next month with Kai July. We have a a trivia partner her name is Naomi Osborne.

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She leads a bar trivia a movie themed specific bar trivia here in the Twin Cities. And if you

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happen to be local go check her out. She and her her trivia partner John are at Indeed Brewing

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every first Monday of the month and it is called If I Only Had a Brain movie trivia. You can find

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them on Facebook but stay tuned to Camp Kaiju to get in on some of that trivia action. You have

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the chance to win merchandise and just have some fun answering some monster movie trivia. What

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could be better? All right what else? Yeah we do have Peter Laurie. I know I was fielding some

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some questions about Mr. Laurie. He is on standby now. He is doing this completely of his own

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accord. You know you may hear rumors of coercion. I want to assure you that he was he was a willing

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participant to come out of his grave and and be a part of the podcast. So we're really excited to

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have him on the show and Mr. Laurie will be will be covering silent monster movies silent horror

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films from the 1920s again in July when we really kick off season four here of Camp Kaiju.

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All right well what else do I have on my agenda for tonight? Oh my gosh huge huge thank yous

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to everyone who reached out regarding the season four announcement. Special shout out to Monster

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Candy podcast that cover horror sci-fi monster movies with with punk rock musicians Screamin' E

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26. I'm reading their Instagram handles. Dominic Davey and Shots WWE. Really thank you if you're

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if you're listening to this Monster Candy for your shout out. I checked out the Memphis Murder Men

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the the punk rock band that you guys are a part of and yeah your track the last man on earth

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absolutely slays. Love that song everyone wherever you I don't know Spotify that's where I'm

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listening the Memphis Murder Men punk rock band maybe in the tradition of the Misfits or the

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Ramones but their track last man on earth does take inspiration from the Vincent Price film from

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the early 60s called the last man on earth that is a really cheesy monster movie that I would

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recommend. It's based off of the novel I am legend actually by Richard Matheson. So in it and it does

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predate Night of the Living Dead but George Romero did draw admittedly so Romero said he drew a lot

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of inspiration for Night of the Living Dead from the last man on earth. So it's in the public domain

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actually so it's really easy to get a hold of but Vincent Price last man on earth Memphis Murder Men

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last man on earth have yourself a double feature well worth it. Some other movies I've seen lately

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with the passing of Roger Corman I dove deep into his Poe cycle these are a number of films based on

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works loosely based on some stories by Edgar Allan Poe. Many of them star Vincent Price

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and I would just have to shout out the House of Usher, the Raven and oh my gosh the one that's not

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even a Poe story but it's an HP Lovecraft story that would be not die monster die. Oh I gotta look

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it up I gotta look it up gotta look it up. The Pit and the Pendulum premature burial that one

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stars Ray Milan actually of the man with x-ray eyes fame. Okay here's the one the haunted palace

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now this is a name shares the name of a Poe story but it's actually a HP Lovecraft adaptation of the

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case of Charles Dexter Ward and this stars Vincent Price and honestly the haunted palace is among the

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best of Roger Corman's Poe movies that I have seen so really twisted nightmarish gothic witchcraft

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and sorcery you get all that in the haunted palace and yeah it definitely is is worth a watch there.

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You are invited to an open house where horror will be your host.

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The haunted palace. You who find a kind of macabre joyousness in the horrifying will enjoy yourselves

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as in ecstasy in the haunted palace starring Vincent Price a being who lived and died and lives

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again. I'll not have my fill of revenge until this village is a graveyard. The intriguing Deborah

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Padgett whose appealing beauty inflames the blood of the bloodless. Charles please. I've been very

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busy but I'm back. His violent torturous passions inflict both pain and terror. Lon Chaney carrying

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on a family tradition of masterful motion picture horror while the strange and feared new master of

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the haunted palace reaches for the skeleton of one long dead.

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You see he's taking her mind her soul just like the others.

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You.

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This night on. You shall bear my.

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Curse. Burn him. Surely after all these years I'm entitled to a few small amusements.

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We switch you to the state capital where his excellency the governor is speaking from the

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executive mansion. Further I have in conjunction with the federal government declared this state

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to be a disaster area. I was sent to keep you here until they come to kill me.

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You.

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Vampires alive among the lifeless that make the night hideous with their inhuman cravings.

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If they are not destroyed in the flaming pits of hell fire

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or stick to the ground in the light of the sun. Will the unbelievable become real.

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A world of inanimate zombies by day irresistible horrifying attackers by night.

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Can a zombie woman's hunger for love repopulate the earth.

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You.

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Movies that are out currently well we do have Godzilla minus one that did drop since our season

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four announcement currently streaming on Netflix so do check that out we won't feature a review

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of that movie on Camp Kaiju until November but I think we can wait I think you know we can let

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some time pass and by November we'll be celebrating one year since its release so lots of things to

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look forward to between now and November I can't believe we're already talking about November but

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can you believe that it is already June my oh my so I'm a public school teacher and I don't know

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if any of you knew that I teach well my my license is in social studies but I actually teach a careers

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class here in Minneapolis public schools and I just want to say congratulations to the class of

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2024 I taught you all for the last two years of your high school experience but I know you came

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in your freshman year online learning during the COVID pandemic so four years later you made it

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huge congrats to you all you should be very proud of the work you've done

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the resilience you've shown and the ability to still have fun and be yourselves and still be kids

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sure now it's time to be adults but hopefully that hopefully those of you listening to Camp Kaiju

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take the message that you could still carve out a bit of childhood for yourself you could still be

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you could still indulge in a little whimsy a little escapism amongst all the adulting that

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that you do have to do I mean I'm still your teacher here Evie, Monty, others who are listening

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so just find that balance for yourself but know that that you're going to do great

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okay so coming up next on Camp Kaiju after this cat people episode two weeks from now

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we're going to be dropping a special collaboration with Patrick Kozakie of Gaze Do The D podcast

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he and I sat down to talk about who framed Roger Rabbit directed by Robert Zemeckis and produced

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by the Walt Disney Studios this movie combines live action and animation in a way that truly

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hasn't been matched since sure you could think about space jam you feel like okay we've done the

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whole the whole shtick animation blended with live action but nothing nothing like in Roger Rabbit

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if you haven't seen it it's 2D animation for all you artists out there young artists who might

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not have been exposed to something quite like this it's a real visual treat and Patrick and I

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have a lot of fun diving into the technical aspects of how this movie came to be as well

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as nerding out about our love of not just animation but the Disney characters and the

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Warner Brothers characters and Looney Tunes and Patrick obviously is you know team Mickey but

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I love Looney Tunes Bugs Bunny's my boy and I think that the chance to see Bugs Bunny and Mickey

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Mouse in the same movie shouldn't be underestimated and again it is something that we will never see

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again such a collaboration between two major studios Warner Brothers Disney and and many other

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animation studios as well lent their characters their IP to this movie who framed Roger Rabbit

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so two weeks from now look out for that it's a new collaboration we're starting called Magic and

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Monsters and hopefully if Roger Rabbit is a is a hit with you all Patrick and I will reunite and

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bring you something maybe maybe four episodes a year looking at specifically Disney movies that

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touch on monsters or strange beasts and there's a lot there's a lot from Disney especially if you

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look at their touchstone label and they're more adult fare you know Pirates of the Caribbean comes

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to mind in addition to the obvious animated features Lilo and Stitch Monsters Incorporated

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so hopefully you're into that that drops two weeks from today now this episode is all about

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at people Matt and I are gonna talk about this 1942 movie from RKO directed by Jacques Tourner

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before we get to that I think we are pretty good for some time here so I'm gonna I'm gonna read

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us some Minya's mailbox and I specifically want to give a shout out to Robert Thompson on YouTube

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and Robert commented on our video Attack of the 50-foot woman simply saying playing in Minot,

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North Dakota this weekend Robert I hope you enjoyed that that what an incredible movie

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to see on the big screen that was eight months ago this comment so for those of you living in

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Minot this weekend you're like oh boy I gotta get that on the calendar you missed it but give credit

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where credit's due so shout out to Minot, North Dakota for playing Attack of the 50-foot woman

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okay this is from Kangaroo on YouTube and this was a comment on our troll 2 episode

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and Kangaroo says simply can we get Velasa Paster? Now Kangaroo you're not the only one to request

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Velasa Paster it's a movie from 2017 it's about a priest who loses his parents and travels to China

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where he inherits a mysterious ability that allows him to turn into a dinosaur although he is horrified

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by the new power a sex worker convinces him to use it to fight crime. Velasa Paster is a movie I have

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heard about I think it is a new a newly minted cult classic it looks like you know a modern b-movie

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lots of questionable cgi but the spirit of the film looks very very genuine very entertaining

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and yeah I would love to talk about Velasa Paster at some point on Camp Kaiju no promises it's at

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the top of our list but we definitely we hear you Kangaroo and and others who have requested

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Velasa Paster so thanks for writing in and of course if anyone else out there wants to

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write in or call it to Camp Kaiju the links to do so are in our show notes anywhere on social media

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I'll find it I'll read it and of course I will feature any voicemails you leave on the Kaiju hotline

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This is the tale of an up-and-coming movie star named Roger Rabbit and a down-and-out private detective

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Stay out!

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named Eddie Valiant

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Booga Booga

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Every moment they were together was a new adventure in trouble

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Hide me Eddie! Please!

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It's a motion picture about friendship

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What do you think it is people?

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Please Eddie! Don't show me out there making a big mistake!

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Love

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Compassion

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I'm sorry I yanked your ears

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All the times you yanked my ears?

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Murder

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Marvin Acme

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The rabbit cacked him last night

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Remember you never saw me!

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Sex

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I'd do anything for my husband Mr. Valiant

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Anything

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Hell Fires

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Toons gets him every time

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You wouldn't have any idea where the rabbit might be

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Got a thing for rabbits in

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The whole thing stinks like yesterday's diapers

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It's a comedy a little different

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from all the rest

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I'm a pig!

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I'm a toon!

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I'm not bad

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I'm just drawn that way

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But tell me Eddie

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Is that a rabbit in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

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Touchstone Pictures and Steven Spielberg present a Robert Zemeckis film

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We toons may act

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But we're not stupid

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Who Framed

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Roger Rabbit

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Once a normal voluptuously beautiful woman

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She drove into a nightmare of horror

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And saw D.C.

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A titanic monster

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Whose fearsome touch became a frightful curse

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You think I'm drunk don't you?

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All of you!

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I'm not drunk! I'm not!

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You've got to believe me!

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It was right in the middle of the highway!

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30 feet tall!

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Once she's in the booby hatch

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Throw the key away

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That'll put you in a good mood

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I'm not a good person

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I'm a good person

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I'm a good person

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That'll put you in the driver's seat

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You'd make a wild driver Harry

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With 50 million bucks

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What she saw was beyond belief

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Until others too faced its hideous uncontrollable menace

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Attack of the 50 foot woman

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Incredibly huge

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With incredible desires for love and vengeance

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00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,680
Across the centuries comes this exciting story

216
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,680
Of a modern girl cursed by an ancient legend

217
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,680
The legend of the cat people

218
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,680
Women whose kiss means death

219
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,680
Whose love turns them into vicious, snarling beasts of prey

220
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,680
Twice I've been followed by something that was not human

221
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,680
Something that attempted to take my life

222
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,680
I believe that was the cat form of Irina

223
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,680
Why should she wish to harm you all?

224
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,680
Because I'm in love with her husband

225
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,680
It's shut now

226
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,680
Just a minute ago it was open

227
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,680
It's locked

228
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,680
Leave us Irina

229
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,680
Well I think this just about wraps it up for me tonight

230
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,680
Thanks for bearing with me

231
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,680
Thanks for hanging out

232
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,680
We are headed into summer

233
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,680
We're saying goodbye to cold weather

234
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,680
Goodbye to frozen with fear

235
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,680
Goodbye to the cold weather

236
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,680
Goodbye to frozen with fear

237
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,680
Our cold skin episode

238
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,680
Thank you all for listening to that

239
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,680
And until next time

240
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,680
Stay campy, enjoy cat people

241
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,680
And be on the lookout for all the great content we have coming up for you

242
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,680
Hello Kaiju crew

243
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,680
Welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Talk

244
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,680
Tonight we are still featuring our Turn Out the Lights October Series

245
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:52,680
With a 1942 classic horror monster film called Cat People

246
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,680
It is like The Wolf Man but with cats

247
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,680
And maybe a little better too

248
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,680
So joining me to discuss the good, the bad, and the downright campy is Matt Levine

249
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:10,680
He joined us a few weeks ago to talk about Kronenberg's The Fly from the 80s

250
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,680
And Matt I'm so happy to have you back

251
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,680
I'm going to let you in the room here

252
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:24,680
And we'll get started about all things cats and all things people

253
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,680
Thanks Vincent, it's good to be here, thank you for having me

254
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,680
Yeah buddy, how you doing?

255
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:30,680
I'm good, how are you?

256
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,680
I'm good, I'm drinking a glass of wine

257
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,680
I'm drinking a gin and tonic

258
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,680
Hey, cheers

259
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,680
Cheers, cheers to you as well

260
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,680
It's almost too cold to be doing this on my front porch

261
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,680
I feel like maybe this is the last week that I can actually do so here in Minnesota

262
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,680
But I will take advantage of it while I can

263
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,680
Good point, yeah

264
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,680
I know it's been nice out today

265
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,680
Yeah, for sure

266
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,680
Yeah, I don't even know where to start

267
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:07,680
So you've been good, what, have you been watching any other good movies?

268
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,680
Yeah, I've definitely been trying to do Horror Fest recently

269
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,680
You know, the month of October obviously is the perfect time for it

270
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:20,680
A couple days ago I watched a movie called Scissors from 1991 with Sharon Stone

271
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,680
It's a pretty basic instinct, kind of a thriller

272
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,680
It's very strange, kind of surreal, very campy

273
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,680
There are no monsters but other than that I felt like it would be a perfect addition to this series

274
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,680
It was originally written to be an episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents

275
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,680
And then they sort of expanded it to feature length many years later

276
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,680
Very interesting

277
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,680
Yeah, I was kind of slightly blown away

278
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,680
It's not a great movie but it's a really fun, very, very good movie

279
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,680
So that was great

280
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,680
I've been watching some of the Halloween movies, you know, it's about that time

281
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:02,680
So the first sequel, Halloween II from 1981, is, you know, really well shot

282
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,680
I mean, it's pretty by the numbers but it's really fun, really entertaining

283
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,680
Yeah

284
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,680
Yeah, a couple movies which are sort of pseudo-horror movies but not actually scary

285
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,680
Black Moon by Louis Maul which is kind of a surreal sort of fantasy type thing

286
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,680
Eve's Bayou from the 90s, Samuel L. Jackson

287
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,680
So yeah, a bunch of horror, what have you been watching?

288
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,680
Cool, so like not horror but it was kind of dark

289
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,680
Was the Cruella movie?

290
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,680
That's fun

291
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,680
Surprisingly good, like it's an average by the numbers movie

292
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,680
But I expected far worse so I was happy with it

293
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,680
Okay, that's good to hear

294
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:54,680
This coming weekend I will be watching An American Werewolf in London, a personal favorite

295
00:27:54,680 --> 00:28:04,680
Last night, Ellen and I watched a movie neither of us had seen but I had heard about Hellraiser

296
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,680
Ah, yes

297
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,680
I wanted to see, like have you seen it? Like I almost want to talk about this

298
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,680
Yeah

299
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,680
Yeah, I haven't seen that in a long time, that's a crazy, extremely gory movie

300
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,680
I feel like maybe it relies a little too much on the gore and the disgusting factor

301
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:31,680
More than like the assiduari-ness but yeah, that's sort of legendary among gore fans or whatever

302
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:42,680
Yeah, well I was like, Ellen, it's a cult classic but I know it's got like a, like its reputation is quite gory

303
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,680
She's like, let's do it and I was like, I love you, let's do it then

304
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:54,680
Yeah, but aside from the gore, like there's a pretty good decent story in there too that I, you know, I enjoyed

305
00:28:54,680 --> 00:29:02,680
I'm interested in the sequels to a point but maybe next year, like I'd have to space those out a little bit

306
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,680
Yeah, that's probably a good idea

307
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,680
I feel like I'm due for a rewatch on those as well, it's been a long time

308
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,680
Yeah, I mean I feel like if you would watch all those sequels within the space of like a week

309
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:19,680
You would just like curl up inside of your house and never leave again so, I'm not be surprised

310
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:29,680
I know, and just another quick aside, I've always kind of been a fan of the Halloween series as well

311
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:34,680
So, you know, I haven't gone like super deep into it but yeah, Halloween II is great

312
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,680
I like Season of the Witch because it's just its own thing

313
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:48,680
Yeah, that's an awesome fun movie and I love pseudo sequels that are not actually really related to like the previous movies in the series

314
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:55,680
Not to sort of like get to this too early but you could say The Curse of the Cat people is sort of similar in that way

315
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,680
So yeah, I mean Season of the Witch is awesome

316
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:04,680
I don't really love the Rob Zombie versions of Halloween but the more recent ones are actually pretty good

317
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,680
I have to admit I have not seen Halloween kills yet, I'm very excited though

318
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,680
But yeah, it's a good series, one of the best

319
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,680
Yeah, maybe we'll include that sometime in the future

320
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:21,680
I don't know, you could go either way on the mythos of Michael Myers

321
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:29,680
Is he just a normal serial killer or is he a force of nature supernatural entity?

322
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,680
Yeah, no, that's a good question

323
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,680
That's one of the most interesting things about the series and I think he is, you know, the boogie man

324
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:43,680
Like the modern day version of the boogie man as far as horror movies go so he's a boogie man in my book

325
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,680
Yeah, cool, well we can make the argument so yeah

326
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,680
Feel free to bring a Halloween movie to the show

327
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,680
Nice, I would love to, and a future installment

328
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,680
Yeah, absolutely

329
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,680
So Cat people, I'm so excited to talk about this movie

330
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,680
I watched it last year for the first time

331
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,680
I had heard that, like I was watching something about classic horror movies

332
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:18,680
And someone featured it as like the first jump scare in cinema

333
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:23,680
And that had me curious so I checked it out, I freaking loved it

334
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:29,680
And then this year I was like I have to talk about it from like an analytical point of view

335
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,680
Because last time, you know, it just kind of washed over me

336
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:38,680
But last night I rewatched it with my notebook and man the notes were flying

337
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,680
Mostly good, like 99% good

338
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,680
So yeah, what do you got? What's your history with the movie?

339
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,680
Same for me pretty much, I first watched it kind of a long time ago

340
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:55,680
I want to say 15 years ago, maybe a little bit less

341
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,680
But I heard so much about these collaborations between Val Lut and the producer

342
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,680
Who made all these great low budget horror movies for RKO

343
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,680
And Jacques Tarnure the director, really great director

344
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,680
Who was a transplant from France to Hollywood and made not only Cat People

345
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,680
But also I Walked with a Zombie out of the Past, a number of other really great movies

346
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,680
So I had heard so much about these collaborations and Cat People was the first one that I saw

347
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,680
And I feel like it's not often that you're blown away by such a subtle movie

348
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,680
But that's kind of what happened the first time I saw it

349
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,680
And I've seen it several other times since then

350
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,680
I'll give a shameless plug to I Walked with a Zombie

351
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,680
Which is my favorite of their collaborations, but Cat People is a close second

352
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,680
And it's one of the best horror movies of that period in American cinema, in my opinion

353
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,680
Well that's great, because I...

354
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:52,680
Before Cat People, honestly, my only experience with classic

355
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,680
30s, 40s horror movies are the Universal Monsters

356
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,680
Which, A, I'd seen since I was a kid, so I was completely desensitized

357
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,680
Any horror that's there

358
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,680
But even with that said, especially by the time you get to the 40s

359
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,680
They're really light on suspense and horror

360
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,680
Like, they're kind of the action movies of their day

361
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,680
They're just really high concept, but they're not scary

362
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,680
So then I watched something like Cat People

363
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,680
Which is like the tension you can cut with a knife

364
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,680
It's really sharp and frightening

365
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,680
And I was like, oh my god, movies like this did exist back then

366
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,680
I'm only just now experiencing it

367
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,680
So what are a few other movies I should check out along these lines?

368
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,680
Well I think right away of another valued movie

369
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,680
The Seven's the Victim, although that's directed by, I think it's Mark...

370
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,680
Mark Robson, I could be wrong about that, I'm sorry, I can't remember the name

371
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,680
But that's a really good movie, that's kind of about a cult in New York City

372
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,680
And a woman sort of goes to New York to investigate the disappearance of her sister, I believe

373
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,680
And sort of becomes embroiled in this cult

374
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,680
That one's really, really great

375
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,680
Let's see here

376
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,680
I actually, this is not really all that similar of a movie

377
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,680
But I just watched The Most Dangerous Game yesterday

378
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,680
Oh, I wanted to see that, yeah

379
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:28,680
It's really fun, and actually I was thinking of it because it is kind of like the action movie of its day

380
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:33,680
It's from 1932, so it's pre-code, so you get some sort of graphic violence

381
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,680
I love pre-code movies

382
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:43,680
I feel like many people are not aware of all these great sort of like

383
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,680
Sex and violence filled movies from the early 1930s

384
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,680
It's such a shock and they're so fun to watch

385
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,680
Yeah, The Most Dangerous Game is really great

386
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,680
But not really necessarily close to cat people

387
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,680
The Uninvited is a really good horror movie from the early 40s

388
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,680
I don't know if you've seen that one

389
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,680
Kind of a classic haunted house movie

390
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,680
That's closer to cat people in the sense that it's so much atmosphere

391
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,680
It's very character based

392
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,680
I'm trying to do a little bit more than sort of just

393
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,680
You know, a good old fashioned spook fest or whatever

394
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,680
Yeah, I'm sure there are others, but those are the ones that are coming to mind right now

395
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,680
Well, I'll tell you, actually, you rang a bell

396
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,680
I watched a movie, a Michael Curtiz Boris Karloff movie from Warner Brothers

397
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,680
Called The Walking Dead

398
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,680
Never heard of it

399
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:37,680
I had it on like an old recorded tape and I was like, oh, I've never seen this movie

400
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,680
And I watched it

401
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,680
It's kind of a shameless ripoff of Frankenstein

402
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:48,680
So Karloff is a man who's framed by some gangsters

403
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,680
And he's sent to the chair

404
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:55,680
Well, then a doctor like transplants his heart and brings him to life

405
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,680
And it's like mad scientist

406
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,680
It's like, oh my God, okay, you're doing Frankenstein

407
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,680
But then, so he's not like really dead

408
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,680
But he appears dead

409
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:11,680
Like to people and he goes around killing the gangsters who set him up

410
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,680
And it's shot really well

411
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:19,680
And it's like a weird, it's like an awesome blend of gangster movies and horror movies

412
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,680
Which are my two favorite genres

413
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,680
Yeah, that's awesome

414
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,680
I have not watched that or even heard of it

415
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,680
It was fun, yeah

416
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,680
Michael Curtiz is great

417
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,680
He has another horror movie from the early 30s, Dr. X, which is really cool

418
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,680
I've heard of it, yeah

419
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,680
Yeah, under, you know, even though he made Casablanca

420
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,680
I feel like he's still kind of an underrated director in some ways

421
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,680
I love all of his movies because I'm a big Errol Flynn fan

422
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,680
He directed like all of those movies

423
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,680
Totally

424
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,680
Okay, not to get too off topic, Cap people

425
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,680
Yeah, let's talk about all the good things we love about it

426
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,680
Before we like pick it apart if we can

427
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,680
I'll start off

428
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,680
I love the direction

429
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,680
I think in the hands of a lesser director

430
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,680
This could have just been a run-of-the-mill horror movie

431
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,680
And I was listening to some commentary about it today actually

432
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,680
Just on another podcast

433
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:30,680
And like the history, like Val Lewin specifically wanted something

434
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,680
Like really smartly done

435
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,680
Like other people were like, oh, just, you know, rip off Universal

436
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,680
He's like, no, no, no, Chuck

437
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,680
I want you to make a good movie

438
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,680
Yeah

439
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,680
Yeah

440
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,680
I'd say yeah, which is like

441
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:48,680
Yeah, I mean, like he was

442
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,680
They were assigned the title, I think, Cap people

443
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,680
Like I've read that RKO execs were just like

444
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,680
Take this title, make a movie out of it

445
00:37:54,680 --> 00:38:00,680
So it must have been sort of shocking for them to get like a pretty great movie in the hands of a lesser director

446
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,680
To get like a pretty great movie in like return, you know?

447
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,680
And I also read that like RKO execs were sort of disappointed by the

448
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:14,680
Yeah, all the suggestion in the movie, the subtlety, the sort of depth of it and the sophistication

449
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,680
But that's of course what I love about it so much

450
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,680
So, you know, Val Lewin for sort of having the guts to do that, you know?

451
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,680
I feel like it somehow reminds me of those pre-code movies

452
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,680
And just like, wow, how did you

453
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,680
You were riding the line with the sexual themes

454
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,680
Yeah, mostly the sexual themes

455
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,680
I was like, oh my god, it's not even subtext

456
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:43,680
Like this movie is about sexual desire and the repression of sexual desire

457
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,680
Female sexual desire

458
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,680
Yeah, yeah, for sure

459
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,680
It's like kind of a courageous theme to bring up in Hollywood at that time

460
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,680
Yeah, especially for like

461
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,680
I mean, RKO was kind of at the top of its game around that time

462
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,680
But I know Citizen Kane lost it a lot of money and they were kind of struggling

463
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,680
So for a struggling studio to sort of put out a movie like this

464
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,680
It took some, you know, it was a risk, so that's pretty admirable

465
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:12,680
Yeah, and I read it was an immediate success

466
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:18,680
Raised the star of everyone involved, RKO of course, you know?

467
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,680
And then, yeah, it was like, it was well received

468
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,680
Yeah, but yeah, you're totally right about the

469
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,680
I mean, I think the comparison to pre-code movies is right on

470
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,680
And I think even though there's not that much on-screen violence

471
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,680
And the sexuality is for the most part implied

472
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,680
It's like a very adult movie

473
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:45,680
And I guess you could say that maybe the main character of Irina is sort of punished for her sexuality

474
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,680
But I don't think that's exactly correct

475
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,680
I think she punishes herself for it

476
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:54,680
And I think the movie sort of has a lot of sympathy for her

477
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,680
Inability to have a relationship with somebody that she loves

478
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,680
Because of all these sort of deep-seated anxieties and traumas that she's sort of dealing with

479
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,680
So, yeah, it's a person that you made

480
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,680
And one of the things I love so much about this movie is that it's really character-based

481
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:15,680
I think that usually makes horror even scarier when it's rooted in identifiable characters

482
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:25,680
Yeah, and to that end, I know Luton and Torner wanted to set it in contemporary America

483
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:30,680
I know some people were like, you know, it'll be like a gothic Victorian thing

484
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,680
And they're like, no, no, no, things are scarier when they're relatable

485
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,680
When they're just normal people

486
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,680
And shit goes down

487
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,680
Yeah, yeah, totally

488
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:48,680
And I mean, despite the subtlety and the suggestion, I would also say that Cat people

489
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,680
And I hope I'm not jumping the gun or talking about the scenes that you want to talk about

490
00:40:52,680 --> 00:41:00,680
But I was going to say I think it has two of the best horror scenes in American cinema from around this time

491
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:07,680
That's the chase scene on the city sidewalks when Alice is being sort of stalked on the sidewalks at night

492
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,680
And then the swimming pool scene

493
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:16,680
I think those two scenes are still very scary and still some of the best-made suspense or horror

494
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,680
That I've seen in any American movie, regardless of the time period

495
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,680
Really, really classic scenes

496
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:27,680
Yeah, and I'll add to it, for my money, the scene is towards the end

497
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:33,680
Where, what's her character's name? The main woman?

498
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:34,680
Urena?

499
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:40,680
She is the panther and confronts them in their office

500
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,680
Yeah, incredible scene

501
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:43,680
Oh my god

502
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,680
So yeah, lots of jumping around

503
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,680
So let's talk about those three scenes then

504
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:55,680
Yeah, you turn out the lights, you put this movie on, those scenes are frightening

505
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,680
I knew what they were coming, but I was still scared

506
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,680
And I want to, like, why?

507
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:05,680
How do you craft something like that as a director?

508
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:10,680
What is it? Is it the lighting? Is it the sound? Is there any one thing?

509
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,680
I think it's all of it, I think it's a great point that you make

510
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,680
Yeah, everything really comes together

511
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,680
I think in that scene where Alice is being stalked on the sidewalks

512
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,680
That is just like one of the most perfectly made sequences I've ever seen in a movie

513
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,680
And I know that sounds hyperbolic, but I think it's totally true

514
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,680
Every edit, every camera angle, the sound design like you were talking about

515
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:36,680
And that's also like, you were talking before about the first sort of jump scare in American movies

516
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:41,680
And that's where it happens when the bus suddenly pulls up and there's this loud screeching sound effect

517
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,680
That is sort of indirectly led to a lot of bad horror movies

518
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:56,680
I think psychologically too, like when she's being stalked down the sidewalk

519
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:02,680
She's all alone, and you don't see Irina behind her

520
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,680
It's all psychological

521
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,680
And I know, I think this is why it scares me so much

522
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:12,680
Is because I've been in that situation, walking somewhere alone at night

523
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:20,680
And you know nothing's around you, but you just think it and you scare yourself

524
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,680
And that's why it's happening to Alice

525
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,680
She's scaring herself

526
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:31,680
And then like, Irina's footsteps disappear at one point

527
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:36,680
And you're like, why did her footsteps disappear?

528
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,680
Yeah, yeah, totally

529
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,680
Little touches like that just add up to this atmosphere of menace

530
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,680
And dread

531
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,680
I think you could say that the same is kind of true for Irina

532
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,680
That she, you know, maybe it is all in her head, you know

533
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,680
And yeah, you're totally right

534
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,680
That kind of psychological, sort of deep-seated terror

535
00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:01,680
Will just like, almost always be scarier than like gore slashers or monsters or whatever

536
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,680
No disrespect to Austin Mooney

537
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,680
How dare you?

538
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:12,680
But there is a monster, like she does transform into a cat

539
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:18,680
Like, you know, it could be in her mind until it isn't, right?

540
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,680
Yeah, absolutely

541
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:26,680
The scene that you brought up where Irina as the panther appears in their office

542
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,680
In this sort of like architectural design office

543
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,680
I read something really interesting about that today

544
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:40,680
Where the producers like demanded that Val Uddin or Jacques Genure include an actual shot of the panther in that space

545
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,680
And Uddin basically refused

546
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,680
And he was like, the only way this will...

547
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,680
I wish I remembered verbatim, but he definitely said something like

548
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,680
The only way this will work is if we don't know exactly what's happening

549
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,680
If we always doubt what we're seeing and what's going on

550
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:53,680
Yeah

551
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,680
Even though you're totally right that yes, she seemingly does turn into a panther

552
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,680
And she is in fact a cat person

553
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,680
So, still, we're not sure of that, you know?

554
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,680
Yeah, like had they not included an actual panther

555
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:12,680
Yeah, we could be having a conversation about is it in her mind

556
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,680
Because even when you see the panther, it's shadow work

557
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,680
Right, yeah

558
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,680
You know, and that could...

559
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:22,680
Yeah, you don't know if you're seeing what you think you're seeing

560
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,680
Yeah

561
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,680
And that's... I won't give away the ending of the movie for anybody that hasn't seen it

562
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,680
But that leads to this really poignant ending at the zoo

563
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,680
Outside of like the panther cage at the zoo

564
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,680
And yeah, this sort of blurring the line between fantasy and reality

565
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,680
And what's in Erina's head or what's not in her head

566
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,680
Makes for a really sad ending

567
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:43,680
Yeah

568
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,680
Like also a genuinely scary movie

569
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,680
Which is a difficult balance to achieve, I think

570
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:53,680
Yeah, and I... you know, the host of this podcast I was listening to

571
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:59,680
You know, they wanted to make the point that Erina didn't do anything wrong in this movie

572
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,680
And I tend to agree with that

573
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:07,680
Like she's a woman trying to keep her world together

574
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:12,680
Her husband... like she's trying to fight for things

575
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,680
And she does, in her own way

576
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:20,680
Then the psychiatrist is a total lech and...

577
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:26,680
Most all psychiatrists are in Hollywood movies around this time

578
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,680
It's hilarious, like Spellbound

579
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:33,680
I just watched something else where the psychiatrist is a villain

580
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:39,680
But yeah, it's crazy, like the fear of psychoanalysis in Hollywood at this time is so fascinating to me

581
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:45,680
Yeah, I did my research for Dracula's Daughter, which was from 36

582
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,680
There was also a psychiatrist in that

583
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:57,680
And yeah, absolutely, this was like when psychiatry was becoming a topic for movies socially

584
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:03,680
Yeah, and they served a perfect character archetype in horror films

585
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,680
Because they could ask these probing questions of the mind

586
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:14,680
But then they always come off as, I don't know, lecherous creeps or know-it-alls and they all die in the end

587
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:19,680
Yeah, or just like equally as messed up as the people they're trying to treat, you know?

588
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,680
Yeah, which is really interesting

589
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:26,680
Yeah, sorry to take away from the point that you were making there though

590
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,680
No, I don't even remember the point

591
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,680
I was gonna shift to images and symbolism

592
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,680
The movie's chock full of them

593
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:40,680
If you have any that come out, I'll let you speak first

594
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:48,680
Otherwise, I've got a list of things that I would love to talk about with those three really scary scenes

595
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,680
Definitely, I mean there is one visual symbol that comes to mind

596
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,680
Which is kind of a good bridge from what you were just talking about I think

597
00:47:55,680 --> 00:48:01,680
Which is the statue of the king of Serbia, king John of Serbia I think it is

598
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,680
Slaying a cat, slaying a wild cat that's in her apartment

599
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,680
One of the many fascinating things about her character is that she is an immigrant

600
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,680
She's from Serbia of course and she's living in New York

601
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:17,680
And I feel like the movie has a lot of sympathy for what immigrants go through living in the United States

602
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,680
And trying to adapt and assimilate

603
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,680
I think we see this in the scene where they go to the Serbian restaurant as well

604
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:27,680
And there's the other Serbian woman who talks to her on the night of her wedding to Oliver

605
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:37,680
So yeah, the statue of king John of Serbia is a really powerful visual metaphor for her upbringing in Serbia

606
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,680
Which she feels like she descends from a race of cat people who

607
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,680
I wish I remembered all the mythology for how they came about

608
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:52,680
But the people of her village supposedly became sort of witch-like when they were occupied by these

609
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,680
Mamluk I think they were called, these occupying, like this occupying force

610
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:02,680
They descended into evil and Ina thinks that she along with many other witches or cat people in her village

611
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,680
Fled into the forest to escape genocide basically

612
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:15,680
So she's still affected by that history which she's certainly culturally part of if she's not personally part of herself

613
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:23,680
So that's maybe a long-winded way to sort of combine the sympathy for her character with the use of visual symbols in the movie

614
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:28,680
But that yeah, that statue of of King John slaying the cat is one of the best in my opinion

615
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:35,680
I really like that because okay, so I have two related points to what you just said

616
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,680
So we're on the same page

617
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:49,680
Her immigrant status I think is just a really unique story element for this time period anyways

618
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:56,680
On top but I but actually what I took away from her was her relationship with Oliver

619
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:04,680
Who's this like traditional clean-cut American and he the way he talks to her is like

620
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:12,680
Oh forget that you know your home country stuff like you're an American girl now. This is this is what we do we kiss

621
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:19,680
And I was just seeing him as a representation of

622
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:25,680
Like American naivete about the rest of the world

623
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:32,680
Also his character in a 2021 lens is the definition of white male privilege

624
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:39,680
He says at one point like I've had the easiest life possible like I had like no childhood trauma

625
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:47,680
I've always had it really easy. I know yeah, you have man indeed

626
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:52,680
He sort of admired the fact that he says it so blamely

627
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:59,680
I know it's just like you're such an idiot. You're a lovable idiot, but

628
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,680
Check yourself good sir

629
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:04,680
Yeah, yeah

630
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:10,680
Because he yeah he he for people who don't know the movie

631
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:15,680
You're a na and he get married they start a relationship

632
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:22,680
But she is scared and hesitant to have any physical contact with him

633
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:30,680
Because any rise in her emotions sexual or otherwise will trigger this

634
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,680
Transformation into a cat and she will kill him

635
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:42,680
So that's kind of like the main dramatic crux conflict of the movie is that they've been married for months

636
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:50,680
It seems like without even kissing each other and this puts a strain on their marriage

637
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:58,680
Oliver ends up falling for his female co-worker who reveals she's always loved him

638
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:08,680
And that that causes jealousy in urana and then you know chaos ensues

639
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:13,680
Yeah, I didn't realize that we never actually provided a plot some me either

640
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:23,680
It's one thing to do. We'll we'll get better at like nailing down a format for this. Yeah. Yeah, that's important information. Yeah

641
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:28,680
So with that said Oliver is just like this

642
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:33,680
Um very sexually frustrated man

643
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:43,680
Uh, so you like he has I think I think his his drive and desire that causes his actions are relatable

644
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:49,680
Um, and like everyone just has strong motivations. I feel like

645
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:56,680
Yeah, I don't think he like he's not a monster to use a you know, a figurative. Um, yeah that word

646
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:03,680
He doesn't do anything too terrible like he is patient with her but his patience does run out eventually and um

647
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:08,680
Yeah, it's again. It is like pretty relatable and that kind of does make the movie a little bit more affecting

648
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:13,680
I think both the sort of horror elements and the drama elements, you know

649
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:21,680
And I think the scene where Oliver and Alice is a female co-worker with whom he falls in love when they go to the museum

650
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:26,680
And arena goes with them and Oliver and Alice just like go off on their own and like ignore arena

651
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:31,680
They're like, oh, we'll meet you in the lobby later and they literally walk away from her. I would be pissed if I was her too

652
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:32,680
Yeah

653
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:37,680
It's a yeah, it's a very poignant scene. I think when that happens. Yeah, that's what I'm saying

654
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:45,680
Like your rain ultimately I don't think she's doing anything that that's something that she's not doing things any what any of us would not do

655
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:54,680
Right. She's just she's feeling human emotions, but she also can't or she'll like she'll be she'll become a cat

656
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:58,680
So that's it's tough breaks for the girl

657
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,680
We've all been there, you know

658
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:11,680
Few other things I wanted to rattle off with Oliver and Alice male and female co-workers

659
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:15,680
I don't I don't think I've ever seen that in another classic movie

660
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:22,680
I'm not saying those that example doesn't exist, but you know, you'd expect Oliver to be you know, just with the guys

661
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:31,680
And maybe Alice's is secretary. But in this case, they're equals and I found that really unique and refreshing in a sense

662
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:38,680
Yeah, that's a that's a good point. I think maybe that's something you see occasionally in screwball comedies like his go Friday comes to mind

663
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:48,680
That's true. Yeah, you know, it's not exactly a screwball comedy, but I feel like there's you know, there's kind of colleague friction in the workplace

664
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:54,680
Some sort of like mutual respect but also mutual animosity in that movie as well. But yeah, it's a good point

665
00:54:54,680 --> 00:55:01,680
Definitely are equals analysis a pretty well drawn, you know, she seems like a real person

666
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:16,680
Yeah, and that scene in the swimming pool this scene I think is the most haunting scene in the movie a pools are just really creepy at night

667
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:23,680
It's not the first movie I've seen where it uses a swimming pool as a set piece

668
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:37,680
Second, she goes into the pool because cats can't like cats don't like water. So I saw that as a refuge on top of that with all of your rain as witchcraft talk

669
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:52,680
Like there's a clear sense of religion in this movie. And I was like, holy water. It's not a pool of holy water. But I don't know. I was just like there's a lot of water repelling the beast

670
00:55:52,680 --> 00:56:03,680
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. There is like some, you know, honestly kind of weird religious stuff going on like Oliver and Alice are definitely like a good old fashioned Christian couple

671
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:16,680
And arena sort of suggested to be this pagan devil worshiper some sort of like other, you know, spirituality. So, you know, if there is like a bad category in the movie, that's like a little questionable to me

672
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:30,680
But you're right about the pool scene, which is incredible. And I think it goes back to what you were saying before about the sound design because, you know, the growls of the cat just like escalate and get more and more sort of frenzied as the scene goes on

673
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:37,680
And then afterwards we find out that Alice's, you know, robe, her bathrobe or whatever has been ripped to shreds while she's been in the pool

674
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:46,680
So there's just so much suggestion and so much perfect kind of construction to that scene. It's really, really effective.

675
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:54,680
And then with that scene in the office

676
00:56:54,680 --> 00:57:17,680
The lighting in all of these shots, I noticed by the end, the directors using lighting via a lot of like, I guess, practical lighting that's already on set, like a lamp will fall over. And that's what casts the light in the whole scene

677
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:26,680
Or like in the office, like they're on those drawing tables that are giving off the light. And that's what's lighting the scene

678
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:33,680
Right. Yeah, it's really effective, really spooky. But it's also kind of like accentuated just a little bit more beyond reality, you know

679
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:41,680
Obviously the black and white does that a little bit too, but just like the really deep shadows, like extending all the way in the back of the frame, like really

680
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:49,680
Yeah, totally. It's like a realistic sort of context for the lighting, but it's one step beyond reality, I think

681
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:54,680
Yeah, I think this movie looks exceptionally well in black and white. Yeah.

682
00:57:54,680 --> 00:58:05,680
Like, because, you know, not every black and white movie looks good in black and white, but the use of shadows is perfect.

683
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:15,680
Yeah. Nicholas Musaraka, one of the best cinematographers of, you know, so-called B movies or sort of lower budget movies of the era

684
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,680
There you go.

685
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,680
Big fan

686
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:34,680
What? Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's... Oh, okay. Okay. So did you catch, I'm sure you did, all of the phallic symbols in the movie?

687
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:41,680
I caught all of them. Some of them though, for sure. There are a lot of them. Yeah.

688
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:53,680
She was having, there's this dream sequence. You remember she's having the dream and there's animated cats, which I was on the fence with. I was like, yeah, I like it.

689
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:59,680
But anytime I see animation in old movies, it kind of takes me out a little bit.

690
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:04,680
I loved it. It's so unexpected in this movie. I was... Yeah, it was trippy.

691
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:21,680
But she dreams about the sword. She dreams about a key, you know, something else that goes into something. And then I was like, oh, she's a cat.

692
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:30,680
Yeah, I gotcha. Yeah, you get me. So I was like, huh, funny.

693
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:44,680
Yeah, I mean, like, which makes sense for, you know, I mean, you brought up sexual repression right away at the beginning and that's totally it. I mean, I think that's one of her main sort of, you know, what's the word, inhibitions that she's trying to deal with.

694
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:59,680
Yeah. And King John, that statue you mentioned, is spearing the cat with his sword. Yeah. So again, another, in my view, another clear sexual innuendo.

695
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:11,680
Yeah, it reminds me, it's not a phallic symbol, but it reminds me of a scene pretty early on when she and Oliver are in her apartment and they're listening to the cats in the zoo, which in the zoo is like right next door to where she lives apparently.

696
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:23,680
And they're listening to these lions roar and she's like, I love listening to the lions roar. I think she says something like it sounds so beautiful, but then she says that she hates listening to the panther because it sounds like a woman.

697
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:35,680
And then maybe like 10 or 15 minutes into the movie. So it's like right away these different sort of sexual hangups are being pretty clearly conveyed like through the character of Irina. Pretty fascinating.

698
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:55,680
Yeah. There's a podcast from Bloody Disgusting that I like called Horror Queers. And they talk about horror movies through a queer lens. And they haven't talked about this movie, but I can't help but watch horror movies now with like, with that in my mind.

699
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:12,680
At one point I was thinking, oh, is Oliver okay with not having physical relationships because he has to be married to somebody in this time period. But then he like, you know, clearly chooses to be with Alice.

700
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:17,680
So I was like, well, maybe he's not gay, but it'd be really interesting if he was.

701
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:22,680
Yeah, he's weirdly asexual I think though even in his relationship with Alice, you know.

702
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:30,680
That's true. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not his movie. So it like, we don't need him to be sexual in any way.

703
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:31,680
Right.

704
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,680
But that's a good point.

705
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:45,680
Maybe largely a result of censorship and what they could portray at the time as well. But yeah, you do get the sense that Oliver is sort of just like desperate to marry anybody in a way, you know.

706
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:47,680
Right? Yeah. Yeah.

707
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:49,680
Like a week of meeting each other it seems.

708
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:57,680
Yeah, I was like, hmm, why are you so willing to be okay with not having sexual relations, which is fine.

709
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:06,680
Like, I also just want to be clear, because I think that this is like my one critique, maybe and it's not like a critique. I just want to bring it up.

710
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:17,680
We are two men talking about a movie that, you know, is about a woman and her sexual life.

711
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:27,680
So, at least for me, any lens I speak through is going to be colored by my experiences as just a man.

712
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:40,680
So that leads me to the fact that men made this movie about a woman.

713
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:55,680
It is about a woman catfighting with another woman over a man. And I was like, it doesn't bother me. But through that lens, it's not the most up to date, I guess.

714
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:56,680
That's very true.

715
01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:18,680
I think within the context of its time, I think it does show more sensitivity towards what a woman would go through with the sort of self-imposed or societally imposed demands about her sexuality or expectations about how she can or should behave as a sexually active woman.

716
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:27,680
I feel like this movie does show a lot of sensitivity towards that, whereas other movies of the time would require her to be a wife, basically, or she would be punished for it.

717
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:32,680
This kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier. I think maybe you could have that reading of this movie.

718
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:37,680
But I still think this movie shows a lot of sympathy for her.

719
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:51,680
I think that she feels unable to be sexually active, certainly for the plot-based reasons that the whole movie is about, but also for other reasons, which the movie sort of only hints at, which is that she can't be sexually active if she's not married.

720
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:58,680
And then she does become married, and then she's worried about maybe what will Oliver think or who will she become.

721
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:11,680
So it's a great point that you bring up, certainly the point that there weren't a lot of female directors in Hollywood at the time, like maybe Ida Lupino and experimental films.

722
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:20,680
You could think of Maya Deren, but yeah, you're absolutely right that it was made by men, and it should be sort of read very, very carefully for that.

723
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:23,680
But I still think that the movie shows a lot of sympathy for her character.

724
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:34,680
Yeah, and I agree, ultimately, with all that as well. I think it's, though she is a woman, I will dare to say that what she's feeling can be universal.

725
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:47,680
Like, you don't, man or woman or whatever, you know, if we're reading it through a sexual desire and frustration lens, that's a very human feeling.

726
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:55,680
And jealousy, and you want it to be something, but you can't, but trying to overcome your demons.

727
01:04:55,680 --> 01:05:00,680
And yeah, it's, ultimately, I think she's a very strong character.

728
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:02,680
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

729
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:08,680
And I think it's amazing that like all of this is in a movie that's like barely more than an hour long. I think it's like an hour, 10 minutes.

730
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:13,680
It's just like, it's so rich. Every single scene has things to take away from it, I think. It's pretty incredible.

731
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:21,680
Yes. So I really didn't have anything other than that to put in the bad category.

732
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:26,680
Me either. Yeah, I mean, you know, we've talked about some of the things which could be criticized.

733
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:33,680
And, you know, I read some things about Simone Simon's performance, too, as Arena, and sort of, you know, her sort of stilted accent.

734
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:38,680
She's a French actress, so some of her English line readings are a little bit awkward.

735
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:45,680
But it's sort of like you said before, I think we so rarely see central characters that are not American in American movies at this time,

736
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:50,680
that, you know, even if it is awkward at times, I think the uniqueness of it more than makes up for that.

737
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:59,680
So I personally would not put that in the bad category. I know some people have in the past, but there are very few things in the bad category for me with this movie.

738
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:13,680
Yeah, honestly. So for I mean, and for downright campy, I just want to say like, mostly I loved the like through costume and makeup,

739
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:22,680
like they and action they gave your arena cat like qualities. Sometimes I feel like there's a little too on the nose.

740
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:33,680
Like, for example, she puts her hand in the canary cage and kills the canary. Yeah. Yeah, that was necessary.

741
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:39,680
Like we get it. She's a cat person. Well, yeah.

742
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:44,680
Also, the other Serbian woman that she meets in that restaurant is really made up to look cat like.

743
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:50,680
I mean, yeah, you know, I mean, you almost expect to see like whiskers painted on that.

744
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:55,680
Maybe almost a little over the top. But yeah, you know, I'm OK with it.

745
01:06:55,680 --> 01:07:01,680
Totally. Yeah, I love the campy stuff. It just it just lightens the mood a little bit.

746
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:10,680
Yeah. Yeah. And I would also say that Paul Schrader's 1982 remake of Cat People is way campier than the 1942 version of Cat People.

747
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:15,680
OK, which I did not get around to seeing it yet.

748
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:20,680
So maybe we can bring that to the show sometime. Definitely.

749
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:26,680
Yeah, that's where the episode unto itself. Yeah.

750
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:32,680
So, yeah, so I think we're both in accord here, but I would give this movie classic status.

751
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:41,680
I think it stands the test of time.

752
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:46,680
So I don't know if I. Oh, my bad.

753
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:59,680
I was saying I give it classic status and that it stands the test of time thanks to its unique type, pacing and direction and universal themes concepts.

754
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:03,680
It checks all the boxes.

755
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:05,680
I would totally agree with that.

756
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:10,680
Both Cat People and I Walked with a Zombie are two of the best horror movies from around this time, in my opinion.

757
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:21,680
I think what they're able to do with suggestion and subtlety and how character based they are and just how much sort of how much they say about the time and place in which they were made.

758
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:27,680
These are endlessly rich movies, which are still pretty creepy at times. Classic status for me, too.

759
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:36,680
Fantastic. Matt, are you willing and able to come back next week to talk about the fly, the 50s fly?

760
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:41,680
Yeah, absolutely. We talked about, you know, Goldblum.

761
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,680
So we should talk about Fitz and Price and definitely there.

762
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,680
Yeah, I that. Yeah.

763
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:50,680
So many good things. I love chatting about this stuff with you.

764
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:52,680
Thank you for coming on again.

765
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,680
And I'm excited for next week. Me, too.

766
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:57,680
Thank you so much. I'm excited. Yeah.

767
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:59,680
Take care. I'll let you get out of here. All right.

768
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:04,680
Thanks, man. See you. Bye, Matt. Bye.

769
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:08,680
And thank you all for hanging out again.

770
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:10,680
Give it up for Matt Levine.

771
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,680
Check out our episode on the fly.

772
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:19,680
A few weeks ago, it caught up because we know we're going to talk about it again with Vince and Price fly next week.

773
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:22,680
So like, follow, engage, do all the fun stuff.

774
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:24,680
Get a cool t-shirt.

775
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:28,680
We got our new Dracula inspired scoops and shirts.

776
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:31,680
You can get the link in the bio for that.

777
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:36,680
And until next time, stay campy.

778
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:42,680
Here are good friends, Mora.

779
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:44,680
Wait in the house.

780
01:09:44,680 --> 01:10:02,680
It's a good boy for me.

781
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:18,680
We're coming. You can't get away. Do something. You must help me.