Hello and welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Podcast.
My name is Vincent Hannum and Matt Levine and we're here to talk about all of our favorite
monster movies. The good, the bad, and the downright campy and asking if they stand the
test of time. Traditional Kaiju, creature features, space invaders, the supernatural,
and everything in between. All strange beasts are welcome here.
All right, all right. Hey everybody, welcome back to camp. This is Vincent here, flying solo this
week. Matt is still taking some well deserved time off and I had a little break in the schedule and
I thought let's reshare the love we have for 1942's Cat People. So the conversation you'll hear
after this isn't exactly a new episode but it is definitely worth listening to if you haven't
checked it out already. It's back from season two of Camp Kaiju when Matt Levine was known as Le
Spleen. Friends of the pod will get a chuckle out of that Matt Le Spleen Levine and before then I'm
just gonna vamp here. I'm gonna tell you what's going on in my world, what's going on in the
world of monster movies and just kind of create like a sitting around the campfire type feel. So
thanks for listening, thanks for hanging out literally and we'll have a good time here for
10-15 minutes. All right, let me get my notes up here. So gotta say thank you to our patrons,
Jason, Chris, Sean, our anonymous patron, and Peggy. And special shout out to Sean. Sean runs a podcast
all about giant robots, mechs if you will, mechas. Think about Power Rangers, Tokusatsu,
the Japanese tradition there. So his podcast is called Toku for Two. I would definitely recommend
friends of this podcast checking out Toku for Two. I think there's a good overlap there. The
Venn diagram if you will does overlap. We've talked a little bit about mechs on campfire.
We've talked about mechs on camp kaiju with the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers movie
and within the Godzilla sphere, terror of Mechagodzilla for instance. Ultraman I would
say definitely falls within the Tokusatsu umbrella 100%. Now is Ultraman a giant robot per se?
No, though that was my impression for the longest time until of course I started digging deeper and
okay it's a little more nuanced than that despite outward appearances. But anyways, Toku for Two,
check them out. If you're interested in becoming a patron at Patreon you can visit us there,
patreon.com slash camp kaiju. For as little as five dollars a month you can get discount on
merchandise, events, personal thank yous, and priority comments. And later on in this little
segment here I will read some some comments. I will dig into Minya's mailbox and feature your
voices as much as I can. So whether or not you want to be a supporter please leave us comments
wherever you listen. YouTube, Facebook, Instagram. Our email is campkaiju at gmail.com and our website
is campkaijupodcast.com. And you know it you can also call the Kaiju hotline at 612-470-2612
and leave your literal voice on the show. Now that's going to come in handy when we get into
some trivia next month with Kai July. We have a a trivia partner her name is Naomi Osborne.
She leads a bar trivia a movie themed specific bar trivia here in the Twin Cities. And if you
happen to be local go check her out. She and her her trivia partner John are at Indeed Brewing
every first Monday of the month and it is called If I Only Had a Brain movie trivia. You can find
them on Facebook but stay tuned to Camp Kaiju to get in on some of that trivia action. You have
the chance to win merchandise and just have some fun answering some monster movie trivia. What
could be better? All right what else? Yeah we do have Peter Laurie. I know I was fielding some
some questions about Mr. Laurie. He is on standby now. He is doing this completely of his own
accord. You know you may hear rumors of coercion. I want to assure you that he was he was a willing
participant to come out of his grave and and be a part of the podcast. So we're really excited to
have him on the show and Mr. Laurie will be will be covering silent monster movies silent horror
films from the 1920s again in July when we really kick off season four here of Camp Kaiju.
All right well what else do I have on my agenda for tonight? Oh my gosh huge huge thank yous
to everyone who reached out regarding the season four announcement. Special shout out to Monster
Candy podcast that cover horror sci-fi monster movies with with punk rock musicians Screamin' E
26. I'm reading their Instagram handles. Dominic Davey and Shots WWE. Really thank you if you're
if you're listening to this Monster Candy for your shout out. I checked out the Memphis Murder Men
the the punk rock band that you guys are a part of and yeah your track the last man on earth
absolutely slays. Love that song everyone wherever you I don't know Spotify that's where I'm
listening the Memphis Murder Men punk rock band maybe in the tradition of the Misfits or the
Ramones but their track last man on earth does take inspiration from the Vincent Price film from
the early 60s called the last man on earth that is a really cheesy monster movie that I would
recommend. It's based off of the novel I am legend actually by Richard Matheson. So in it and it does
predate Night of the Living Dead but George Romero did draw admittedly so Romero said he drew a lot
of inspiration for Night of the Living Dead from the last man on earth. So it's in the public domain
actually so it's really easy to get a hold of but Vincent Price last man on earth Memphis Murder Men
last man on earth have yourself a double feature well worth it. Some other movies I've seen lately
with the passing of Roger Corman I dove deep into his Poe cycle these are a number of films based on
works loosely based on some stories by Edgar Allan Poe. Many of them star Vincent Price
and I would just have to shout out the House of Usher, the Raven and oh my gosh the one that's not
even a Poe story but it's an HP Lovecraft story that would be not die monster die. Oh I gotta look
it up I gotta look it up gotta look it up. The Pit and the Pendulum premature burial that one
stars Ray Milan actually of the man with x-ray eyes fame. Okay here's the one the haunted palace
now this is a name shares the name of a Poe story but it's actually a HP Lovecraft adaptation of the
case of Charles Dexter Ward and this stars Vincent Price and honestly the haunted palace is among the
best of Roger Corman's Poe movies that I have seen so really twisted nightmarish gothic witchcraft
and sorcery you get all that in the haunted palace and yeah it definitely is is worth a watch there.
You are invited to an open house where horror will be your host.
The haunted palace. You who find a kind of macabre joyousness in the horrifying will enjoy yourselves
as in ecstasy in the haunted palace starring Vincent Price a being who lived and died and lives
again. I'll not have my fill of revenge until this village is a graveyard. The intriguing Deborah
Padgett whose appealing beauty inflames the blood of the bloodless. Charles please. I've been very
busy but I'm back. His violent torturous passions inflict both pain and terror. Lon Chaney carrying
on a family tradition of masterful motion picture horror while the strange and feared new master of
the haunted palace reaches for the skeleton of one long dead.
You see he's taking her mind her soul just like the others.
You.
This night on. You shall bear my.
Curse. Burn him. Surely after all these years I'm entitled to a few small amusements.
We switch you to the state capital where his excellency the governor is speaking from the
executive mansion. Further I have in conjunction with the federal government declared this state
to be a disaster area. I was sent to keep you here until they come to kill me.
You.
Vampires alive among the lifeless that make the night hideous with their inhuman cravings.
If they are not destroyed in the flaming pits of hell fire
or stick to the ground in the light of the sun. Will the unbelievable become real.
A world of inanimate zombies by day irresistible horrifying attackers by night.
Can a zombie woman's hunger for love repopulate the earth.
You.
Movies that are out currently well we do have Godzilla minus one that did drop since our season
four announcement currently streaming on Netflix so do check that out we won't feature a review
of that movie on Camp Kaiju until November but I think we can wait I think you know we can let
some time pass and by November we'll be celebrating one year since its release so lots of things to
look forward to between now and November I can't believe we're already talking about November but
can you believe that it is already June my oh my so I'm a public school teacher and I don't know
if any of you knew that I teach well my my license is in social studies but I actually teach a careers
class here in Minneapolis public schools and I just want to say congratulations to the class of
2024 I taught you all for the last two years of your high school experience but I know you came
in your freshman year online learning during the COVID pandemic so four years later you made it
huge congrats to you all you should be very proud of the work you've done
the resilience you've shown and the ability to still have fun and be yourselves and still be kids
sure now it's time to be adults but hopefully that hopefully those of you listening to Camp Kaiju
take the message that you could still carve out a bit of childhood for yourself you could still be
you could still indulge in a little whimsy a little escapism amongst all the adulting that
that you do have to do I mean I'm still your teacher here Evie, Monty, others who are listening
so just find that balance for yourself but know that that you're going to do great
okay so coming up next on Camp Kaiju after this cat people episode two weeks from now
we're going to be dropping a special collaboration with Patrick Kozakie of Gaze Do The D podcast
he and I sat down to talk about who framed Roger Rabbit directed by Robert Zemeckis and produced
by the Walt Disney Studios this movie combines live action and animation in a way that truly
hasn't been matched since sure you could think about space jam you feel like okay we've done the
whole the whole shtick animation blended with live action but nothing nothing like in Roger Rabbit
if you haven't seen it it's 2D animation for all you artists out there young artists who might
not have been exposed to something quite like this it's a real visual treat and Patrick and I
have a lot of fun diving into the technical aspects of how this movie came to be as well
as nerding out about our love of not just animation but the Disney characters and the
Warner Brothers characters and Looney Tunes and Patrick obviously is you know team Mickey but
I love Looney Tunes Bugs Bunny's my boy and I think that the chance to see Bugs Bunny and Mickey
Mouse in the same movie shouldn't be underestimated and again it is something that we will never see
again such a collaboration between two major studios Warner Brothers Disney and and many other
animation studios as well lent their characters their IP to this movie who framed Roger Rabbit
so two weeks from now look out for that it's a new collaboration we're starting called Magic and
Monsters and hopefully if Roger Rabbit is a is a hit with you all Patrick and I will reunite and
bring you something maybe maybe four episodes a year looking at specifically Disney movies that
touch on monsters or strange beasts and there's a lot there's a lot from Disney especially if you
look at their touchstone label and they're more adult fare you know Pirates of the Caribbean comes
to mind in addition to the obvious animated features Lilo and Stitch Monsters Incorporated
so hopefully you're into that that drops two weeks from today now this episode is all about
at people Matt and I are gonna talk about this 1942 movie from RKO directed by Jacques Tourner
before we get to that I think we are pretty good for some time here so I'm gonna I'm gonna read
us some Minya's mailbox and I specifically want to give a shout out to Robert Thompson on YouTube
and Robert commented on our video Attack of the 50-foot woman simply saying playing in Minot,
North Dakota this weekend Robert I hope you enjoyed that that what an incredible movie
to see on the big screen that was eight months ago this comment so for those of you living in
Minot this weekend you're like oh boy I gotta get that on the calendar you missed it but give credit
where credit's due so shout out to Minot, North Dakota for playing Attack of the 50-foot woman
okay this is from Kangaroo on YouTube and this was a comment on our troll 2 episode
and Kangaroo says simply can we get Velasa Paster? Now Kangaroo you're not the only one to request
Velasa Paster it's a movie from 2017 it's about a priest who loses his parents and travels to China
where he inherits a mysterious ability that allows him to turn into a dinosaur although he is horrified
by the new power a sex worker convinces him to use it to fight crime. Velasa Paster is a movie I have
heard about I think it is a new a newly minted cult classic it looks like you know a modern b-movie
lots of questionable cgi but the spirit of the film looks very very genuine very entertaining
and yeah I would love to talk about Velasa Paster at some point on Camp Kaiju no promises it's at
the top of our list but we definitely we hear you Kangaroo and and others who have requested
Velasa Paster so thanks for writing in and of course if anyone else out there wants to
write in or call it to Camp Kaiju the links to do so are in our show notes anywhere on social media
I'll find it I'll read it and of course I will feature any voicemails you leave on the Kaiju hotline
This is the tale of an up-and-coming movie star named Roger Rabbit and a down-and-out private detective
Stay out!
named Eddie Valiant
Booga Booga
Every moment they were together was a new adventure in trouble
Hide me Eddie! Please!
It's a motion picture about friendship
What do you think it is people?
Please Eddie! Don't show me out there making a big mistake!
Love
Compassion
I'm sorry I yanked your ears
All the times you yanked my ears?
Murder
Marvin Acme
The rabbit cacked him last night
Remember you never saw me!
Sex
I'd do anything for my husband Mr. Valiant
Anything
Hell Fires
Toons gets him every time
You wouldn't have any idea where the rabbit might be
Got a thing for rabbits in
The whole thing stinks like yesterday's diapers
It's a comedy a little different
from all the rest
I'm a pig!
I'm a toon!
I'm not bad
I'm just drawn that way
But tell me Eddie
Is that a rabbit in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
Touchstone Pictures and Steven Spielberg present a Robert Zemeckis film
We toons may act
But we're not stupid
Who Framed
Roger Rabbit
Once a normal voluptuously beautiful woman
She drove into a nightmare of horror
And saw D.C.
A titanic monster
Whose fearsome touch became a frightful curse
You think I'm drunk don't you?
All of you!
I'm not drunk! I'm not!
You've got to believe me!
It was right in the middle of the highway!
30 feet tall!
Once she's in the booby hatch
Throw the key away
That'll put you in a good mood
I'm not a good person
I'm a good person
That'll put you in the driver's seat
You'd make a wild driver Harry
With 50 million bucks
What she saw was beyond belief
Until others too faced its hideous uncontrollable menace
Attack of the 50 foot woman
Incredibly huge
With incredible desires for love and vengeance
Across the centuries comes this exciting story
Of a modern girl cursed by an ancient legend
The legend of the cat people
Women whose kiss means death
Whose love turns them into vicious, snarling beasts of prey
Twice I've been followed by something that was not human
Something that attempted to take my life
I believe that was the cat form of Irina
Why should she wish to harm you all?
Because I'm in love with her husband
It's shut now
Just a minute ago it was open
It's locked
Leave us Irina
Well I think this just about wraps it up for me tonight
Thanks for bearing with me
Thanks for hanging out
We are headed into summer
We're saying goodbye to cold weather
Goodbye to frozen with fear
Goodbye to the cold weather
Goodbye to frozen with fear
Our cold skin episode
Thank you all for listening to that
And until next time
Stay campy, enjoy cat people
And be on the lookout for all the great content we have coming up for you
Hello Kaiju crew
Welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Talk
Tonight we are still featuring our Turn Out the Lights October Series
With a 1942 classic horror monster film called Cat People
It is like The Wolf Man but with cats
And maybe a little better too
So joining me to discuss the good, the bad, and the downright campy is Matt Levine
He joined us a few weeks ago to talk about Kronenberg's The Fly from the 80s
And Matt I'm so happy to have you back
I'm going to let you in the room here
And we'll get started about all things cats and all things people
Thanks Vincent, it's good to be here, thank you for having me
Yeah buddy, how you doing?
I'm good, how are you?
I'm good, I'm drinking a glass of wine
I'm drinking a gin and tonic
Hey, cheers
Cheers, cheers to you as well
It's almost too cold to be doing this on my front porch
I feel like maybe this is the last week that I can actually do so here in Minnesota
But I will take advantage of it while I can
Good point, yeah
I know it's been nice out today
Yeah, for sure
Yeah, I don't even know where to start
So you've been good, what, have you been watching any other good movies?
Yeah, I've definitely been trying to do Horror Fest recently
You know, the month of October obviously is the perfect time for it
A couple days ago I watched a movie called Scissors from 1991 with Sharon Stone
It's a pretty basic instinct, kind of a thriller
It's very strange, kind of surreal, very campy
There are no monsters but other than that I felt like it would be a perfect addition to this series
It was originally written to be an episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents
And then they sort of expanded it to feature length many years later
Very interesting
Yeah, I was kind of slightly blown away
It's not a great movie but it's a really fun, very, very good movie
So that was great
I've been watching some of the Halloween movies, you know, it's about that time
So the first sequel, Halloween II from 1981, is, you know, really well shot
I mean, it's pretty by the numbers but it's really fun, really entertaining
Yeah
Yeah, a couple movies which are sort of pseudo-horror movies but not actually scary
Black Moon by Louis Maul which is kind of a surreal sort of fantasy type thing
Eve's Bayou from the 90s, Samuel L. Jackson
So yeah, a bunch of horror, what have you been watching?
Cool, so like not horror but it was kind of dark
Was the Cruella movie?
That's fun
Surprisingly good, like it's an average by the numbers movie
But I expected far worse so I was happy with it
Okay, that's good to hear
This coming weekend I will be watching An American Werewolf in London, a personal favorite
Last night, Ellen and I watched a movie neither of us had seen but I had heard about Hellraiser
Ah, yes
I wanted to see, like have you seen it? Like I almost want to talk about this
Yeah
Yeah, I haven't seen that in a long time, that's a crazy, extremely gory movie
I feel like maybe it relies a little too much on the gore and the disgusting factor
More than like the assiduari-ness but yeah, that's sort of legendary among gore fans or whatever
Yeah, well I was like, Ellen, it's a cult classic but I know it's got like a, like its reputation is quite gory
She's like, let's do it and I was like, I love you, let's do it then
Yeah, but aside from the gore, like there's a pretty good decent story in there too that I, you know, I enjoyed
I'm interested in the sequels to a point but maybe next year, like I'd have to space those out a little bit
Yeah, that's probably a good idea
I feel like I'm due for a rewatch on those as well, it's been a long time
Yeah, I mean I feel like if you would watch all those sequels within the space of like a week
You would just like curl up inside of your house and never leave again so, I'm not be surprised
I know, and just another quick aside, I've always kind of been a fan of the Halloween series as well
So, you know, I haven't gone like super deep into it but yeah, Halloween II is great
I like Season of the Witch because it's just its own thing
Yeah, that's an awesome fun movie and I love pseudo sequels that are not actually really related to like the previous movies in the series
Not to sort of like get to this too early but you could say The Curse of the Cat people is sort of similar in that way
So yeah, I mean Season of the Witch is awesome
I don't really love the Rob Zombie versions of Halloween but the more recent ones are actually pretty good
I have to admit I have not seen Halloween kills yet, I'm very excited though
But yeah, it's a good series, one of the best
Yeah, maybe we'll include that sometime in the future
I don't know, you could go either way on the mythos of Michael Myers
Is he just a normal serial killer or is he a force of nature supernatural entity?
Yeah, no, that's a good question
That's one of the most interesting things about the series and I think he is, you know, the boogie man
Like the modern day version of the boogie man as far as horror movies go so he's a boogie man in my book
Yeah, cool, well we can make the argument so yeah
Feel free to bring a Halloween movie to the show
Nice, I would love to, and a future installment
Yeah, absolutely
So Cat people, I'm so excited to talk about this movie
I watched it last year for the first time
I had heard that, like I was watching something about classic horror movies
And someone featured it as like the first jump scare in cinema
And that had me curious so I checked it out, I freaking loved it
And then this year I was like I have to talk about it from like an analytical point of view
Because last time, you know, it just kind of washed over me
But last night I rewatched it with my notebook and man the notes were flying
Mostly good, like 99% good
So yeah, what do you got? What's your history with the movie?
Same for me pretty much, I first watched it kind of a long time ago
I want to say 15 years ago, maybe a little bit less
But I heard so much about these collaborations between Val Lut and the producer
Who made all these great low budget horror movies for RKO
And Jacques Tarnure the director, really great director
Who was a transplant from France to Hollywood and made not only Cat People
But also I Walked with a Zombie out of the Past, a number of other really great movies
So I had heard so much about these collaborations and Cat People was the first one that I saw
And I feel like it's not often that you're blown away by such a subtle movie
But that's kind of what happened the first time I saw it
And I've seen it several other times since then
I'll give a shameless plug to I Walked with a Zombie
Which is my favorite of their collaborations, but Cat People is a close second
And it's one of the best horror movies of that period in American cinema, in my opinion
Well that's great, because I...
Before Cat People, honestly, my only experience with classic
30s, 40s horror movies are the Universal Monsters
Which, A, I'd seen since I was a kid, so I was completely desensitized
Any horror that's there
But even with that said, especially by the time you get to the 40s
They're really light on suspense and horror
Like, they're kind of the action movies of their day
They're just really high concept, but they're not scary
So then I watched something like Cat People
Which is like the tension you can cut with a knife
It's really sharp and frightening
And I was like, oh my god, movies like this did exist back then
I'm only just now experiencing it
So what are a few other movies I should check out along these lines?
Well I think right away of another valued movie
The Seven's the Victim, although that's directed by, I think it's Mark...
Mark Robson, I could be wrong about that, I'm sorry, I can't remember the name
But that's a really good movie, that's kind of about a cult in New York City
And a woman sort of goes to New York to investigate the disappearance of her sister, I believe
And sort of becomes embroiled in this cult
That one's really, really great
Let's see here
I actually, this is not really all that similar of a movie
But I just watched The Most Dangerous Game yesterday
Oh, I wanted to see that, yeah
It's really fun, and actually I was thinking of it because it is kind of like the action movie of its day
It's from 1932, so it's pre-code, so you get some sort of graphic violence
I love pre-code movies
I feel like many people are not aware of all these great sort of like
Sex and violence filled movies from the early 1930s
It's such a shock and they're so fun to watch
Yeah, The Most Dangerous Game is really great
But not really necessarily close to cat people
The Uninvited is a really good horror movie from the early 40s
I don't know if you've seen that one
Kind of a classic haunted house movie
That's closer to cat people in the sense that it's so much atmosphere
It's very character based
I'm trying to do a little bit more than sort of just
You know, a good old fashioned spook fest or whatever
Yeah, I'm sure there are others, but those are the ones that are coming to mind right now
Well, I'll tell you, actually, you rang a bell
I watched a movie, a Michael Curtiz Boris Karloff movie from Warner Brothers
Called The Walking Dead
Never heard of it
I had it on like an old recorded tape and I was like, oh, I've never seen this movie
And I watched it
It's kind of a shameless ripoff of Frankenstein
So Karloff is a man who's framed by some gangsters
And he's sent to the chair
Well, then a doctor like transplants his heart and brings him to life
And it's like mad scientist
It's like, oh my God, okay, you're doing Frankenstein
But then, so he's not like really dead
But he appears dead
Like to people and he goes around killing the gangsters who set him up
And it's shot really well
And it's like a weird, it's like an awesome blend of gangster movies and horror movies
Which are my two favorite genres
Yeah, that's awesome
I have not watched that or even heard of it
It was fun, yeah
Michael Curtiz is great
He has another horror movie from the early 30s, Dr. X, which is really cool
I've heard of it, yeah
Yeah, under, you know, even though he made Casablanca
I feel like he's still kind of an underrated director in some ways
I love all of his movies because I'm a big Errol Flynn fan
He directed like all of those movies
Totally
Okay, not to get too off topic, Cap people
Yeah, let's talk about all the good things we love about it
Before we like pick it apart if we can
I'll start off
I love the direction
I think in the hands of a lesser director
This could have just been a run-of-the-mill horror movie
And I was listening to some commentary about it today actually
Just on another podcast
And like the history, like Val Lewin specifically wanted something
Like really smartly done
Like other people were like, oh, just, you know, rip off Universal
He's like, no, no, no, Chuck
I want you to make a good movie
Yeah
I'd say yeah, which is like
Yeah, I mean, like he was
They were assigned the title, I think, Cap people
Like I've read that RKO execs were just like
Take this title, make a movie out of it
So it must have been sort of shocking for them to get like a pretty great movie in the hands of a lesser director
To get like a pretty great movie in like return, you know?
And I also read that like RKO execs were sort of disappointed by the
Yeah, all the suggestion in the movie, the subtlety, the sort of depth of it and the sophistication
But that's of course what I love about it so much
So, you know, Val Lewin for sort of having the guts to do that, you know?
I feel like it somehow reminds me of those pre-code movies
And just like, wow, how did you
You were riding the line with the sexual themes
Yeah, mostly the sexual themes
I was like, oh my god, it's not even subtext
Like this movie is about sexual desire and the repression of sexual desire
Female sexual desire
Yeah, yeah, for sure
It's like kind of a courageous theme to bring up in Hollywood at that time
Yeah, especially for like
I mean, RKO was kind of at the top of its game around that time
But I know Citizen Kane lost it a lot of money and they were kind of struggling
So for a struggling studio to sort of put out a movie like this
It took some, you know, it was a risk, so that's pretty admirable
Yeah, and I read it was an immediate success
Raised the star of everyone involved, RKO of course, you know?
And then, yeah, it was like, it was well received
Yeah, but yeah, you're totally right about the
I mean, I think the comparison to pre-code movies is right on
And I think even though there's not that much on-screen violence
And the sexuality is for the most part implied
It's like a very adult movie
And I guess you could say that maybe the main character of Irina is sort of punished for her sexuality
But I don't think that's exactly correct
I think she punishes herself for it
And I think the movie sort of has a lot of sympathy for her
Inability to have a relationship with somebody that she loves
Because of all these sort of deep-seated anxieties and traumas that she's sort of dealing with
So, yeah, it's a person that you made
And one of the things I love so much about this movie is that it's really character-based
I think that usually makes horror even scarier when it's rooted in identifiable characters
Yeah, and to that end, I know Luton and Torner wanted to set it in contemporary America
I know some people were like, you know, it'll be like a gothic Victorian thing
And they're like, no, no, no, things are scarier when they're relatable
When they're just normal people
And shit goes down
Yeah, yeah, totally
And I mean, despite the subtlety and the suggestion, I would also say that Cat people
And I hope I'm not jumping the gun or talking about the scenes that you want to talk about
But I was going to say I think it has two of the best horror scenes in American cinema from around this time
That's the chase scene on the city sidewalks when Alice is being sort of stalked on the sidewalks at night
And then the swimming pool scene
I think those two scenes are still very scary and still some of the best-made suspense or horror
That I've seen in any American movie, regardless of the time period
Really, really classic scenes
Yeah, and I'll add to it, for my money, the scene is towards the end
Where, what's her character's name? The main woman?
Urena?
She is the panther and confronts them in their office
Yeah, incredible scene
Oh my god
So yeah, lots of jumping around
So let's talk about those three scenes then
Yeah, you turn out the lights, you put this movie on, those scenes are frightening
I knew what they were coming, but I was still scared
And I want to, like, why?
How do you craft something like that as a director?
What is it? Is it the lighting? Is it the sound? Is there any one thing?
I think it's all of it, I think it's a great point that you make
Yeah, everything really comes together
I think in that scene where Alice is being stalked on the sidewalks
That is just like one of the most perfectly made sequences I've ever seen in a movie
And I know that sounds hyperbolic, but I think it's totally true
Every edit, every camera angle, the sound design like you were talking about
And that's also like, you were talking before about the first sort of jump scare in American movies
And that's where it happens when the bus suddenly pulls up and there's this loud screeching sound effect
That is sort of indirectly led to a lot of bad horror movies
I think psychologically too, like when she's being stalked down the sidewalk
She's all alone, and you don't see Irina behind her
It's all psychological
And I know, I think this is why it scares me so much
Is because I've been in that situation, walking somewhere alone at night
And you know nothing's around you, but you just think it and you scare yourself
And that's why it's happening to Alice
She's scaring herself
And then like, Irina's footsteps disappear at one point
And you're like, why did her footsteps disappear?
Yeah, yeah, totally
Little touches like that just add up to this atmosphere of menace
And dread
I think you could say that the same is kind of true for Irina
That she, you know, maybe it is all in her head, you know
And yeah, you're totally right
That kind of psychological, sort of deep-seated terror
Will just like, almost always be scarier than like gore slashers or monsters or whatever
No disrespect to Austin Mooney
How dare you?
But there is a monster, like she does transform into a cat
Like, you know, it could be in her mind until it isn't, right?
Yeah, absolutely
The scene that you brought up where Irina as the panther appears in their office
In this sort of like architectural design office
I read something really interesting about that today
Where the producers like demanded that Val Uddin or Jacques Genure include an actual shot of the panther in that space
And Uddin basically refused
And he was like, the only way this will...
I wish I remembered verbatim, but he definitely said something like
The only way this will work is if we don't know exactly what's happening
If we always doubt what we're seeing and what's going on
Yeah
Even though you're totally right that yes, she seemingly does turn into a panther
And she is in fact a cat person
So, still, we're not sure of that, you know?
Yeah, like had they not included an actual panther
Yeah, we could be having a conversation about is it in her mind
Because even when you see the panther, it's shadow work
Right, yeah
You know, and that could...
Yeah, you don't know if you're seeing what you think you're seeing
Yeah
And that's... I won't give away the ending of the movie for anybody that hasn't seen it
But that leads to this really poignant ending at the zoo
Outside of like the panther cage at the zoo
And yeah, this sort of blurring the line between fantasy and reality
And what's in Erina's head or what's not in her head
Makes for a really sad ending
Yeah
Like also a genuinely scary movie
Which is a difficult balance to achieve, I think
Yeah, and I... you know, the host of this podcast I was listening to
You know, they wanted to make the point that Erina didn't do anything wrong in this movie
And I tend to agree with that
Like she's a woman trying to keep her world together
Her husband... like she's trying to fight for things
And she does, in her own way
Then the psychiatrist is a total lech and...
Most all psychiatrists are in Hollywood movies around this time
It's hilarious, like Spellbound
I just watched something else where the psychiatrist is a villain
But yeah, it's crazy, like the fear of psychoanalysis in Hollywood at this time is so fascinating to me
Yeah, I did my research for Dracula's Daughter, which was from 36
There was also a psychiatrist in that
And yeah, absolutely, this was like when psychiatry was becoming a topic for movies socially
Yeah, and they served a perfect character archetype in horror films
Because they could ask these probing questions of the mind
But then they always come off as, I don't know, lecherous creeps or know-it-alls and they all die in the end
Yeah, or just like equally as messed up as the people they're trying to treat, you know?
Yeah, which is really interesting
Yeah, sorry to take away from the point that you were making there though
No, I don't even remember the point
I was gonna shift to images and symbolism
The movie's chock full of them
If you have any that come out, I'll let you speak first
Otherwise, I've got a list of things that I would love to talk about with those three really scary scenes
Definitely, I mean there is one visual symbol that comes to mind
Which is kind of a good bridge from what you were just talking about I think
Which is the statue of the king of Serbia, king John of Serbia I think it is
Slaying a cat, slaying a wild cat that's in her apartment
One of the many fascinating things about her character is that she is an immigrant
She's from Serbia of course and she's living in New York
And I feel like the movie has a lot of sympathy for what immigrants go through living in the United States
And trying to adapt and assimilate
I think we see this in the scene where they go to the Serbian restaurant as well
And there's the other Serbian woman who talks to her on the night of her wedding to Oliver
So yeah, the statue of king John of Serbia is a really powerful visual metaphor for her upbringing in Serbia
Which she feels like she descends from a race of cat people who
I wish I remembered all the mythology for how they came about
But the people of her village supposedly became sort of witch-like when they were occupied by these
Mamluk I think they were called, these occupying, like this occupying force
They descended into evil and Ina thinks that she along with many other witches or cat people in her village
Fled into the forest to escape genocide basically
So she's still affected by that history which she's certainly culturally part of if she's not personally part of herself
So that's maybe a long-winded way to sort of combine the sympathy for her character with the use of visual symbols in the movie
But that yeah, that statue of of King John slaying the cat is one of the best in my opinion
I really like that because okay, so I have two related points to what you just said
So we're on the same page
Her immigrant status I think is just a really unique story element for this time period anyways
On top but I but actually what I took away from her was her relationship with Oliver
Who's this like traditional clean-cut American and he the way he talks to her is like
Oh forget that you know your home country stuff like you're an American girl now. This is this is what we do we kiss
And I was just seeing him as a representation of
Like American naivete about the rest of the world
Also his character in a 2021 lens is the definition of white male privilege
He says at one point like I've had the easiest life possible like I had like no childhood trauma
I've always had it really easy. I know yeah, you have man indeed
He sort of admired the fact that he says it so blamely
I know it's just like you're such an idiot. You're a lovable idiot, but
Check yourself good sir
Yeah, yeah
Because he yeah he he for people who don't know the movie
You're a na and he get married they start a relationship
But she is scared and hesitant to have any physical contact with him
Because any rise in her emotions sexual or otherwise will trigger this
Transformation into a cat and she will kill him
So that's kind of like the main dramatic crux conflict of the movie is that they've been married for months
It seems like without even kissing each other and this puts a strain on their marriage
Oliver ends up falling for his female co-worker who reveals she's always loved him
And that that causes jealousy in urana and then you know chaos ensues
Yeah, I didn't realize that we never actually provided a plot some me either
It's one thing to do. We'll we'll get better at like nailing down a format for this. Yeah. Yeah, that's important information. Yeah
So with that said Oliver is just like this
Um very sexually frustrated man
Uh, so you like he has I think I think his his drive and desire that causes his actions are relatable
Um, and like everyone just has strong motivations. I feel like
Yeah, I don't think he like he's not a monster to use a you know, a figurative. Um, yeah that word
He doesn't do anything too terrible like he is patient with her but his patience does run out eventually and um
Yeah, it's again. It is like pretty relatable and that kind of does make the movie a little bit more affecting
I think both the sort of horror elements and the drama elements, you know
And I think the scene where Oliver and Alice is a female co-worker with whom he falls in love when they go to the museum
And arena goes with them and Oliver and Alice just like go off on their own and like ignore arena
They're like, oh, we'll meet you in the lobby later and they literally walk away from her. I would be pissed if I was her too
Yeah
It's a yeah, it's a very poignant scene. I think when that happens. Yeah, that's what I'm saying
Like your rain ultimately I don't think she's doing anything that that's something that she's not doing things any what any of us would not do
Right. She's just she's feeling human emotions, but she also can't or she'll like she'll be she'll become a cat
So that's it's tough breaks for the girl
We've all been there, you know
Few other things I wanted to rattle off with Oliver and Alice male and female co-workers
I don't I don't think I've ever seen that in another classic movie
I'm not saying those that example doesn't exist, but you know, you'd expect Oliver to be you know, just with the guys
And maybe Alice's is secretary. But in this case, they're equals and I found that really unique and refreshing in a sense
Yeah, that's a that's a good point. I think maybe that's something you see occasionally in screwball comedies like his go Friday comes to mind
That's true. Yeah, you know, it's not exactly a screwball comedy, but I feel like there's you know, there's kind of colleague friction in the workplace
Some sort of like mutual respect but also mutual animosity in that movie as well. But yeah, it's a good point
Definitely are equals analysis a pretty well drawn, you know, she seems like a real person
Yeah, and that scene in the swimming pool this scene I think is the most haunting scene in the movie a pools are just really creepy at night
It's not the first movie I've seen where it uses a swimming pool as a set piece
Second, she goes into the pool because cats can't like cats don't like water. So I saw that as a refuge on top of that with all of your rain as witchcraft talk
Like there's a clear sense of religion in this movie. And I was like, holy water. It's not a pool of holy water. But I don't know. I was just like there's a lot of water repelling the beast
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. There is like some, you know, honestly kind of weird religious stuff going on like Oliver and Alice are definitely like a good old fashioned Christian couple
And arena sort of suggested to be this pagan devil worshiper some sort of like other, you know, spirituality. So, you know, if there is like a bad category in the movie, that's like a little questionable to me
But you're right about the pool scene, which is incredible. And I think it goes back to what you were saying before about the sound design because, you know, the growls of the cat just like escalate and get more and more sort of frenzied as the scene goes on
And then afterwards we find out that Alice's, you know, robe, her bathrobe or whatever has been ripped to shreds while she's been in the pool
So there's just so much suggestion and so much perfect kind of construction to that scene. It's really, really effective.
And then with that scene in the office
The lighting in all of these shots, I noticed by the end, the directors using lighting via a lot of like, I guess, practical lighting that's already on set, like a lamp will fall over. And that's what casts the light in the whole scene
Or like in the office, like they're on those drawing tables that are giving off the light. And that's what's lighting the scene
Right. Yeah, it's really effective, really spooky. But it's also kind of like accentuated just a little bit more beyond reality, you know
Obviously the black and white does that a little bit too, but just like the really deep shadows, like extending all the way in the back of the frame, like really
Yeah, totally. It's like a realistic sort of context for the lighting, but it's one step beyond reality, I think
Yeah, I think this movie looks exceptionally well in black and white. Yeah.
Like, because, you know, not every black and white movie looks good in black and white, but the use of shadows is perfect.
Yeah. Nicholas Musaraka, one of the best cinematographers of, you know, so-called B movies or sort of lower budget movies of the era
There you go.
Big fan
What? Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's... Oh, okay. Okay. So did you catch, I'm sure you did, all of the phallic symbols in the movie?
I caught all of them. Some of them though, for sure. There are a lot of them. Yeah.
She was having, there's this dream sequence. You remember she's having the dream and there's animated cats, which I was on the fence with. I was like, yeah, I like it.
But anytime I see animation in old movies, it kind of takes me out a little bit.
I loved it. It's so unexpected in this movie. I was... Yeah, it was trippy.
But she dreams about the sword. She dreams about a key, you know, something else that goes into something. And then I was like, oh, she's a cat.
Yeah, I gotcha. Yeah, you get me. So I was like, huh, funny.
Yeah, I mean, like, which makes sense for, you know, I mean, you brought up sexual repression right away at the beginning and that's totally it. I mean, I think that's one of her main sort of, you know, what's the word, inhibitions that she's trying to deal with.
Yeah. And King John, that statue you mentioned, is spearing the cat with his sword. Yeah. So again, another, in my view, another clear sexual innuendo.
Yeah, it reminds me, it's not a phallic symbol, but it reminds me of a scene pretty early on when she and Oliver are in her apartment and they're listening to the cats in the zoo, which in the zoo is like right next door to where she lives apparently.
And they're listening to these lions roar and she's like, I love listening to the lions roar. I think she says something like it sounds so beautiful, but then she says that she hates listening to the panther because it sounds like a woman.
And then maybe like 10 or 15 minutes into the movie. So it's like right away these different sort of sexual hangups are being pretty clearly conveyed like through the character of Irina. Pretty fascinating.
Yeah. There's a podcast from Bloody Disgusting that I like called Horror Queers. And they talk about horror movies through a queer lens. And they haven't talked about this movie, but I can't help but watch horror movies now with like, with that in my mind.
At one point I was thinking, oh, is Oliver okay with not having physical relationships because he has to be married to somebody in this time period. But then he like, you know, clearly chooses to be with Alice.
So I was like, well, maybe he's not gay, but it'd be really interesting if he was.
Yeah, he's weirdly asexual I think though even in his relationship with Alice, you know.
That's true. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not his movie. So it like, we don't need him to be sexual in any way.
Right.
But that's a good point.
Maybe largely a result of censorship and what they could portray at the time as well. But yeah, you do get the sense that Oliver is sort of just like desperate to marry anybody in a way, you know.
Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Like a week of meeting each other it seems.
Yeah, I was like, hmm, why are you so willing to be okay with not having sexual relations, which is fine.
Like, I also just want to be clear, because I think that this is like my one critique, maybe and it's not like a critique. I just want to bring it up.
We are two men talking about a movie that, you know, is about a woman and her sexual life.
So, at least for me, any lens I speak through is going to be colored by my experiences as just a man.
So that leads me to the fact that men made this movie about a woman.
It is about a woman catfighting with another woman over a man. And I was like, it doesn't bother me. But through that lens, it's not the most up to date, I guess.
That's very true.
I think within the context of its time, I think it does show more sensitivity towards what a woman would go through with the sort of self-imposed or societally imposed demands about her sexuality or expectations about how she can or should behave as a sexually active woman.
I feel like this movie does show a lot of sensitivity towards that, whereas other movies of the time would require her to be a wife, basically, or she would be punished for it.
This kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier. I think maybe you could have that reading of this movie.
But I still think this movie shows a lot of sympathy for her.
I think that she feels unable to be sexually active, certainly for the plot-based reasons that the whole movie is about, but also for other reasons, which the movie sort of only hints at, which is that she can't be sexually active if she's not married.
And then she does become married, and then she's worried about maybe what will Oliver think or who will she become.
So it's a great point that you bring up, certainly the point that there weren't a lot of female directors in Hollywood at the time, like maybe Ida Lupino and experimental films.
You could think of Maya Deren, but yeah, you're absolutely right that it was made by men, and it should be sort of read very, very carefully for that.
But I still think that the movie shows a lot of sympathy for her character.
Yeah, and I agree, ultimately, with all that as well. I think it's, though she is a woman, I will dare to say that what she's feeling can be universal.
Like, you don't, man or woman or whatever, you know, if we're reading it through a sexual desire and frustration lens, that's a very human feeling.
And jealousy, and you want it to be something, but you can't, but trying to overcome your demons.
And yeah, it's, ultimately, I think she's a very strong character.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And I think it's amazing that like all of this is in a movie that's like barely more than an hour long. I think it's like an hour, 10 minutes.
It's just like, it's so rich. Every single scene has things to take away from it, I think. It's pretty incredible.
Yes. So I really didn't have anything other than that to put in the bad category.
Me either. Yeah, I mean, you know, we've talked about some of the things which could be criticized.
And, you know, I read some things about Simone Simon's performance, too, as Arena, and sort of, you know, her sort of stilted accent.
She's a French actress, so some of her English line readings are a little bit awkward.
But it's sort of like you said before, I think we so rarely see central characters that are not American in American movies at this time,
that, you know, even if it is awkward at times, I think the uniqueness of it more than makes up for that.
So I personally would not put that in the bad category. I know some people have in the past, but there are very few things in the bad category for me with this movie.
Yeah, honestly. So for I mean, and for downright campy, I just want to say like, mostly I loved the like through costume and makeup,
like they and action they gave your arena cat like qualities. Sometimes I feel like there's a little too on the nose.
Like, for example, she puts her hand in the canary cage and kills the canary. Yeah. Yeah, that was necessary.
Like we get it. She's a cat person. Well, yeah.
Also, the other Serbian woman that she meets in that restaurant is really made up to look cat like.
I mean, yeah, you know, I mean, you almost expect to see like whiskers painted on that.
Maybe almost a little over the top. But yeah, you know, I'm OK with it.
Totally. Yeah, I love the campy stuff. It just it just lightens the mood a little bit.
Yeah. Yeah. And I would also say that Paul Schrader's 1982 remake of Cat People is way campier than the 1942 version of Cat People.
OK, which I did not get around to seeing it yet.
So maybe we can bring that to the show sometime. Definitely.
Yeah, that's where the episode unto itself. Yeah.
So, yeah, so I think we're both in accord here, but I would give this movie classic status.
I think it stands the test of time.
So I don't know if I. Oh, my bad.
I was saying I give it classic status and that it stands the test of time thanks to its unique type, pacing and direction and universal themes concepts.
It checks all the boxes.
I would totally agree with that.
Both Cat People and I Walked with a Zombie are two of the best horror movies from around this time, in my opinion.
I think what they're able to do with suggestion and subtlety and how character based they are and just how much sort of how much they say about the time and place in which they were made.
These are endlessly rich movies, which are still pretty creepy at times. Classic status for me, too.
Fantastic. Matt, are you willing and able to come back next week to talk about the fly, the 50s fly?
Yeah, absolutely. We talked about, you know, Goldblum.
So we should talk about Fitz and Price and definitely there.
Yeah, I that. Yeah.
So many good things. I love chatting about this stuff with you.
Thank you for coming on again.
And I'm excited for next week. Me, too.
Thank you so much. I'm excited. Yeah.
Take care. I'll let you get out of here. All right.
Thanks, man. See you. Bye, Matt. Bye.
And thank you all for hanging out again.
Give it up for Matt Levine.
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