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Hi gang, it's Patrick from Gaze Do The D.

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And Vincent from Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Podcast.

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We are here with our first ever crossover episode of Magic and Monsters where we are

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exploring the wonderful world of creature features.

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And you know, just some of the darker films to come out of the House of Mouse.

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The ones that make you say, wait, wait, wait, wait, that's a Disney movie?

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For today's episode, we are dipping, get it, dipping into the world of who framed Roger

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Rabbit.

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So put on your Mickey ears, grab a snack, away we go.

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To all who come to this happy place, welcome.

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Vincent what are we doing here?

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What's going on?

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What have we gotten ourselves into?

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Well, we have started a new podcast, but it's not a new podcast.

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Sure, sure, sure.

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Magic and Monsters.

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So we're here to join forces Gaze Do The D Camp Kaiju.

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Love it.

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We've partnered on previous episodes, respectively, on our own shows.

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True story.

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Here we are with one just totally new product.

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A new situation, a thing that we're trying out here.

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Who's to know what it's going to look like?

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Behind the scenes, everybody, we don't even really have like a logo or a theme song yet.

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Like we're absolutely, all we know so far is the episode we want to start with.

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And that's what we're doing today.

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And we're editing it together and figuring out what this is.

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So feedback is so welcome after this episode.

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We will absolutely need it.

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But yeah, like Vincent said, we're throwing our two podcasts together and they're making

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a baby podcast and we're going to try to feed it and see how it goes and grows.

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Yeah, the plan right now is at least what's our release schedule?

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What are we talking about?

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Quarterly, question mark?

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Yeah.

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This could be our summer episode, maybe we have a holiday themed episode and then or

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a Halloween themed episode.

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It feels appropriate.

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I mean, monsters.

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All right.

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So again, hey, hey listeners, we have no idea.

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I'm in, but I'm thinking summer, spooky season, holidays, and then one in the spring.

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I like it.

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I like it.

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I like that we said magic and monsters officially.

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That's our title.

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What's wrong with it?

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It's official.

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No back seas.

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Perfect alliteration.

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Wonderful.

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What more do you want in a title?

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I don't.

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Yeah.

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I mean, that's all this is what we got, folks.

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This is what we have for you.

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Hopefully you love it.

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Hopefully you love it.

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So okay, who are we?

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How do we know each other?

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What are our podcasts about?

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Because at this point now we are releasing these episodes on both of our podcast listener

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bases basically so two different audiences are going to be listening to this and going,

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I know Vincent.

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I don't know Patrick or I know Patrick.

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I don't know Vincent.

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So Vincent, who are you and how do you know me?

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My name is Vincent Hannum.

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I am a playwright, film lover and all around mostly theater artist, but Patrick and I know

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each other from our theater work.

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I've produced a play.

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He's directed that play.

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We've both been actors on the same stages.

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So we're just a couple of couple of artists who respect what they do, but we do.

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And we are friends.

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You sounded really hesitant about that.

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That last little bit you're like, and we're friends.

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Well, I was like, so many things fill in the blank.

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No, it's going great.

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So my podcast is called Camp Kaiju Monster Movie podcast.

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I'm the producer and co-host.

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My co-host is a novelist and film critic, Matthew Cole Levine.

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And together he and I discuss a wide range of monster films, your traditional Kaiju,

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Godzilla, King Kong, your more science fiction based films, space invaders, creature features

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and or Disney movies that feature some strange beasts.

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So I'm a huge nerd with this stuff, love doing the research, love talking about it.

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And yeah, I couldn't be happier to be doing this kind of work.

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Agreed.

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So who are you, Patrick?

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Who am I?

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How do you know me?

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Anyway, I know you from the same way you know me through we met through theater.

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I'm Patrick Kazaki, by the way, of Gays Do the D podcast.

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Also an actor, sometimes director, editor of the Gays Do the D podcast and a co-host.

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There are four of us.

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I am one of four and a founder of that podcast as well.

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Yeah, Vincent and I met each other, as you said, through theater and we've been buddies

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ever since collaborating.

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I feel like we have very similar vibes and that's why we get along pretty well together.

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Very well together, not pretty well.

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We get along very well together.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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We just have an admiration and respect for each other's work and we have two very different

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podcasts, yet similar podcasts in some ways in that Disney is a very sort of campy environment

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as is Camp Kaiju, which is in the title of your podcast.

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Our podcast, as in the name, GDTD, Gays Do the D is a Disney podcast that talks about

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all things Disney, parks, movies, experiences.

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We have some former cast members come on the show for interviews every once in a while,

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all through just sort of a LGBTQIA plus lens.

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We sort of lean into what makes Disney just a little bit gay, but it's for everybody.

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Even if you're not of that community, we welcome you into our podcast.

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Yeah, and we discovered that each other had a podcast and has since been on each other's

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podcasts and I think we collaborate really well together.

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We just have a good respect for each other's likes and dislikes.

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What I love about your podcast, Vincent, this might be going way too deep into the waters,

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but is that you two are such come at it as such fanboys of this genre that you're specifically

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talking about, but you're not afraid to say that you don't like a movie, even if you're

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reviewing it, you're like, listen, we're reviewing it.

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It exists, but wasn't a fan.

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So I like the honesty that you guys bring to it and you are both nerds about it as well,

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which I am on the same side with Disney movies.

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So it's well, that's what I was going to say.

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I love people who I'm attracted to people who love what they do and you clearly have

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a passion for for Disney.

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You're at Disney World seemingly every other week running a marathon.

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No, no.

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Patrick, what are you doing this weekend?

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You want to hang out?

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Oh, you're running another marathon.

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Got it.

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In Orlando.

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OK, OK, gotcha.

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Behind you listeners can't see this is a wall of medals Patrick has from various Disney

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marathons or runs.

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I runs.

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Yeah, I've done a marathon, but half marathons, 10Ks, 5Ks.

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Well he's modest, everybody.

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But that's why we like him.

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He's truthful.

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He's true.

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True story.

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You're you got a good show going on.

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We built a huge like such a great listener base.

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Just the people I've met in.

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Patrick has invited me to very like a happy hour we did a couple of weeks ago that you

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provide to your patrons.

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Yeah.

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And I got to just hang out with the Gaze to the D Tweedles.

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That what you call?

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We call them Tweedles.

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Yeah, Tweedles.

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So just good people.

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And that's the thing about nerds too.

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And we're going I'm going off a little bit.

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But you know, monster movie lovers.

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I haven't met a bad a bad apple like we just love what we love.

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We love hanging out with each other.

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And I get the same vibe with all you Disney nuts.

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It's true.

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I mean, this is why I'm excited about this podcast.

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Well, for many reasons, but the debate that happens between people who love something

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so passionately and we love two different aspects of these movies that we're going to

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talk about so passionately.

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And so I'm excited about the debate and the discussion that that is bound to happen and

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hopefully the listener feedback as well.

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So in future episodes, this is normally where we would maybe insert some listener feedback

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here.

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Obviously, we have no listeners yet, but hopefully you're listening right now and you will respond

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to these podcasts and let us know what you think and whether or not you agree with us

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on our thoughts on the movies that we're going to talk about and suggestions maybe for future

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podcasts as well.

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Well, on that note, do we want to talk about some movies that we have thrown around as

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possible episodes?

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I like that.

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Give them a peek behind the curtain already.

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Yeah, I think I think this is one of the fun things we can do is just talk about titles.

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Love it.

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So I've already made a list on my letterbox at Camp Kaiju of Magic and Monsters, monster

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movies from the wonderful world of Disney.

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I have some obvious things, Lilo and Stitch, The Nightmare Before Christmas, Monsters Inc.

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Right?

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Monsters is a good one.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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We were expanding too.

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So sometimes when you think about Disney, you think about just the cartoons, right?

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But there are Disney owns a lot of different companies in the own searchlight now and they

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own Touchstone and they own, you know, the Marvel Universe and Star Wars and all that.

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So we're opening the box a little bit more than we normally would on Gaze Do the D, which

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is really fun.

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So we're inviting a lot more like arachnophobia came to mind for maybe an upcoming episode.

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So who knows what the the the sky's the limit on this.

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I'm excited for all these titles, though.

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Nightmare Before Christmas, I think I'm really excited about.

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Yeah, I think that I have some exciting, I don't know, just some wacky titles that were

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thrown out in that happy hour.

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Yeah.

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What do we have?

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We have a TV movie called Mr. Boogity.

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Mr. Boogity and its sequel Bride of Boogity.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Two gems, just real gems from the wonderful world of Disney.

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And from the 80s, 80s is a weird time.

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There's a there was there's a movie called Baby Secret of the Lost Legend about the dinosaur

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one.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So I'm excited for you to see some of these movies for the first time as well, because

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they are wild.

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Some of these movies just bonkers.

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But there are a couple I did in my own research.

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I did come across a couple of seemingly well regarded horror movies.

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Yeah.

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Or like they lean more horror.

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And that would be something wicked this way comes.

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I was going to say, yeah, that one for sure.

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And have you heard of the Watcher in the Woods?

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I think isn't Bette Davis in that movie?

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I'm pretty sure she is.

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Yeah.

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It's been a while since I've seen that one.

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I don't know that it's necessarily a monster movie, so we should investigate that one a

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little bit further.

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But it is definitely like thriller kind of horror mystery.

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Well according to the letterbox synopsis, it says after an American family moves to

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an old country manor in rural England, one of the daughters is tormented by the spirit

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of the owner's long lost daughter, who mysteriously disappeared 30 years ago during a solar eclipse.

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True.

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So it's a bit of a ghost story for sure.

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Which we welcome on Camp Kaiju.

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Yes, that's right.

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All monsters are welcome there.

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I like it.

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I like it.

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I wonder if we so Gaze Through the D has also investigated Return to Oz, which might be

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an interesting one for us to relook at when it comes to the monsters and the villains

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in that movie, because it is a creepy movie for sure.

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Is Wicked a Disney title?

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Oh gosh, I don't think so.

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Okay.

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Yeah, I can't.

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I don't think we can claim that one.

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Not yet.

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Not yet.

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Disney will buy it at some point.

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Not yet.

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Yeah.

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So these are a few of our potential upcoming episodes that we're tossing around, but we

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are welcome to your suggestions.

252
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,720
If there's something out there that you're dying to learn more about that you want us

253
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,560
to dig into, let us know for sure.

254
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:23,880
Also what are some upcoming movies that haven't been released yet that you are excited about

255
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:29,400
when it comes to either Disney or Monster or both or none of the above?

256
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,160
What's coming up is on your radar right now.

257
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:32,960
Oh my gosh.

258
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:38,600
Well, Disney Disney, I know there's a live action Lilo and Stitch next year.

259
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:39,600
Yes.

260
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,400
I should be told I'm not excited for that.

261
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,360
I'll tell you why.

262
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:45,360
Okay, great.

263
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,200
I love the animated feature.

264
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:48,200
Yeah.

265
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,480
So, so wonderfully much.

266
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:56,160
And I, and I'm not like a Disney super junkie.

267
00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:00,400
So I am not a fan of all these live action remakes that they do.

268
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:01,400
I hear you.

269
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:02,400
Yeah.

270
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:07,160
I just, from my maybe cynical point of view, I'm just like, that's just a cash grab with

271
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,560
no like, what are you offering that's new?

272
00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:15,280
Because when I watch the live action Lion King, yeah, well, it just makes me want to

273
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:21,080
watch the animated Lion King, which is arguably much better.

274
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:22,080
I hear you.

275
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:23,080
Yeah.

276
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:24,080
Yeah.

277
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:25,080
Yeah.

278
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,760
It's just that age old question of like, just because we can do this, should we do this?

279
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:28,760
I don't know.

280
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:29,760
But what do you think?

281
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,560
Are you excited for Lilo and Stitch?

282
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:37,140
I'm nervous about it because yeah, I mean, Lilo and Stitch is such a, it's like one of

283
00:14:37,140 --> 00:14:40,360
your favorite ornaments that you bring out and look at on the Christmas tree.

284
00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,140
You don't even mean that you want to take care of.

285
00:14:42,140 --> 00:14:44,600
And so I'm just nervous about it.

286
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,840
And Stitch is such a classic look of a character.

287
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,800
And so they're altering it just a little bit.

288
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,240
And I've seen images and I'm just like, ah, I don't know.

289
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,800
That's not the Stitch that I, that I know and love, but am I being a curmudgeon?

290
00:14:58,800 --> 00:14:59,800
Maybe who knows?

291
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:00,800
I think it actually comes out this year.

292
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,560
I think it comes out sooner than we think it does.

293
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:03,560
Right.

294
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:04,560
Yeah.

295
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:05,560
Yeah.

296
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:13,360
I love Lilo and Stitch and I love that it was not expected to do well, that it was some,

297
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:19,560
some call it the last truly great Disney animated feature from Disney Studios.

298
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:20,560
Wow.

299
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:25,660
And I mean, the animation is gorgeous in it, but the story is so unorthodox.

300
00:15:25,660 --> 00:15:28,160
Like it's a weird alien sci-fi thing.

301
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:29,160
Yes.

302
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:34,160
Like it became like a dark horse of a movie that became a classic.

303
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:35,160
Yeah.

304
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,600
And then they found it later on and it's now become like a cult classic for sure.

305
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:39,600
Right.

306
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,240
But now with a live action, I don't know.

307
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,440
Are you going mainstream with my Lilo and Stitch?

308
00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:47,600
I know I'm nervous.

309
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,600
I'll go see it for sure, but I'm nervous about it.

310
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:50,600
I don't know.

311
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:51,600
I don't know.

312
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:56,400
I am excited about the new Deadpool and Wolverine movie that's coming out later this year as

313
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:57,400
well.

314
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:58,400
I think it'll be a fun one.

315
00:15:58,400 --> 00:15:59,400
Yeah.

316
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,040
Wolverine's in the classic duds, the yellow and blue.

317
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,000
So that touches my nostalgia bone.

318
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,000
Yeah.

319
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,000
Yeah, for sure.

320
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,640
And then what's the new alien movie that's coming out as well?

321
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:11,640
Is that coming this year?

322
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:12,640
Yeah.

323
00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:13,640
Romulus in August.

324
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:14,640
In August.

325
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:15,640
That'll be exciting.

326
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:16,640
Yeah.

327
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:17,640
Yeah.

328
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:24,200
Some big titles are coming out for sure, whether or not they're going to be good.

329
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:25,200
We'll see.

330
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,760
We'll be sure to talk about them though.

331
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:28,760
That's for sure.

332
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:34,440
But if you are excited about Lilo and Stitch, don't let me rain on your parade.

333
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:35,440
Go enjoy it.

334
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:36,440
Love it.

335
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,920
I'm sure there's one or two people out there who are really excited about it.

336
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:40,560
Yeah, and you should be.

337
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:41,560
You should be.

338
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:42,560
You should be.

339
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:43,560
All right.

340
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:50,440
Well, what do you say, Vincent, we get into the meat and bones of our episode today and

341
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:55,520
talk about our main segment, Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

342
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,600
I wish I could do a Roger Rabbit impression.

343
00:16:58,600 --> 00:16:59,600
Please try.

344
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:00,600
Please try.

345
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:26,280
All right, Vincent, we're here.

346
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,160
At last we made it.

347
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,740
We're talking about Who Framed Roger Rabbit today.

348
00:17:32,740 --> 00:17:39,280
I'm so excited to talk to you about this movie for so many reasons, but let's talk about

349
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:45,800
first why we picked this as our first movie to talk about on our newish.

350
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:46,800
I'm using air quotes.

351
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,760
You can't see it right now on the, because it's a podcast, this movie to talk about on

352
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,200
our first episode of Magic and Monsters.

353
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,240
What are your thoughts behind that?

354
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,480
Is Roger Rabbit your idea or mine?

355
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,280
Now I can't remember at all.

356
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:07,000
I feel like it came up organically between the two of us in conversation one time and

357
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,120
I don't remember what the conversation was, but I remember you saying that you hadn't

358
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:12,840
seen it in a very long time, right?

359
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:14,840
Because you saw it early on in childhood.

360
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:15,840
Is that right?

361
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:16,840
Yeah.

362
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,600
So my personal history with the film, and I'd love to hear yours, Patrick.

363
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:21,600
Yeah.

364
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:31,360
When I was a kid, I had seen Roger Rabbit, it wasn't on heavy rotation in my youth and

365
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:32,800
therefore I just kind of remembered.

366
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:39,560
I had always remembered bits and pieces, particularly the Judge Doom aspects, which have I think

367
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:45,120
seared into the brains of any young person who's seen this movie.

368
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:46,440
Yeah, for sure.

369
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:56,920
So I hadn't given a rewatch literally until early this year and I was 32 at the time,

370
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,760
so it'd probably been over 20 years since I'd seen it.

371
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:09,400
And I was watching a lot of movies with my daughter, she was born in November and she

372
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,520
was sleeping and I was like, all right, let's do Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

373
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:20,840
It blew me away because as I said earlier, I love cartoons, I love Looney Tunes and I

374
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:25,880
love 1940s hard boiled detective stories.

375
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:26,880
Yeah.

376
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,960
Man, this movie was made for me.

377
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,960
I know it is whether the creators say so or not.

378
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,480
Fair, fair.

379
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:37,480
I think they would agree.

380
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:38,480
I think they would agree.

381
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:39,480
And I think you hit on something.

382
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:45,200
I think that's why we decided to do this because I think you texted me after or during your

383
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,560
watch of this and you were like, if you guys ever do Roger Rabbit, I want to come on your

384
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,080
podcast and talk about it with you.

385
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:52,720
I think that may be how it happened.

386
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,240
And then I was like, well, what if we just talked about it together?

387
00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:02,120
And then so I think maybe Roger Rabbit was a catalyst of doing this subset podcast altogether,

388
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:03,120
maybe.

389
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,360
And so it just naturally became our first episode.

390
00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:06,680
I think maybe that is part of it.

391
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:07,680
Sounds right.

392
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:08,680
Sure.

393
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,320
Yeah, that's that's what it is from now on.

394
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,440
That's our story for sure.

395
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:15,440
Let's see my history with that.

396
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:23,000
I remember distinctly going to see this movie at the Terrace Theater in Minneapolis, Minnesota,

397
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,420
and absolutely loving it.

398
00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:31,960
So this was in its first release, obviously, loving it and at the same time being 100 percent

399
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,120
terrified of Judge Doom and the Weasels and all.

400
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:41,560
It was just one of the I think it was maybe my first foray into not that this is a horror

401
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:46,640
movie by any stretch, but it's real scary many, many times in the movie, especially

402
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,040
Judge Doom, especially at the end.

403
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:51,520
It's terrifying for a kid.

404
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,960
And it's I mean, it's not unscary now as an adult.

405
00:20:54,960 --> 00:21:00,160
It's wacky and it's wild and it's so over the top that it's sort of like is an assault

406
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,840
to the senses sometimes this movie.

407
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,520
And yeah, I've always been a fan of who frame Roger Rabbit.

408
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,120
I've been wanting them to do a sequel forever.

409
00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:14,520
And there is one out there, but no one is jumping at the bit to do it.

410
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:15,920
Apparently it's a really good script, too.

411
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:21,720
I haven't obviously read it, but it's it's it's out there and it it may happen at some

412
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,100
point, maybe on Disney+.

413
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:25,100
So who knows?

414
00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:28,640
But yeah, it's it's been in my heart for a very, very long time.

415
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:35,420
It's such a unique film and it speaks to me, I think, because I love the magic of the movies

416
00:21:35,420 --> 00:21:37,000
and knowing how they're done.

417
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,280
I'm obsessed with it and digging into like, how did they figure this out?

418
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:41,280
How do they do this?

419
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:42,320
I'm such a nerd that way.

420
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:47,320
And so and this movie is just chock full of you can go down.

421
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,520
Pardon the pun, the rabbit hole on this of figuring out the magic behind this movie.

422
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:56,520
And I'm sure there's so many elements out there that we just don't even know to look

423
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:57,520
into.

424
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,520
You know what I mean?

425
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,600
There's so much more to this level stuff that we can like it's on IMDb or it's on Wikipedia

426
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:07,400
or whatever, which we hopefully will unfold for our audiences today.

427
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,720
But it's so it's such a good it's such a good movie.

428
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:17,040
And to me, it's still holds up as a wonderfully done movie and visually stands the test of

429
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,040
time for me.

430
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,280
Oh, yeah, right.

431
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:25,800
It's not just no shade on Space Jam, but.

432
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,680
A little a little shade.

433
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,000
Space Jam, I think, is the is a fair comparison.

434
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,280
It's what you think of like mixing classic cartoons with actors.

435
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:42,840
You're going to think Space Jam, which revisiting as an adult, you go, wow, this story is paper

436
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,360
thin.

437
00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:50,800
The Looney Tunes are funny, but there's nothing beyond those gags.

438
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:57,520
But meanwhile, Roger Rabbit actually has like a real deep it's a real deep character journey

439
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:02,520
with Eddie Valiant and Roger and how they they come to terms with each other.

440
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:03,520
Yeah.

441
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,160
And such memorable side characters.

442
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,320
Jessica Rabbit, Baby Herman.

443
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:09,680
Oh, my gosh.

444
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,240
This is Chef's Kiss.

445
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,640
I love all these characters.

446
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,320
And then you get the cameos with bugs.

447
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:19,320
So many.

448
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:20,320
Yeah.

449
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:21,320
Other classic cartoons.

450
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,680
And we'll talk about that at the end.

451
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:24,680
Who made the cut?

452
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:25,680
Who didn't?

453
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:26,680
Who was unable?

454
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:27,680
Sure.

455
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,120
Which which which rights were unavailable.

456
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:34,000
Ultimately, various cartoon characters.

457
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,440
So many Easter eggs in this movie.

458
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,720
You could watch it a thousand times and go, oh, my gosh, I didn't even realize that character

459
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,280
was in the background just sitting there with no lines.

460
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:43,920
And it's yeah, it's remarkable.

461
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,040
Remarkable.

462
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,960
So let's dig into a little bit of the history behind this movie, because it's got a real

463
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:55,720
fascinating story of how it got made, why it got made, the process in which it got made,

464
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,720
who was ultimately cast in the movie and who ultimately got to direct the movie.

465
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,040
It's a fascinating story.

466
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,000
I think a lot of people don't know that Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

467
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:10,200
The beginnings come from a novel in 1981, right, called Who Censored Roger Rabbit by

468
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,840
the author Gary Wolf.

469
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,360
And we have both been reading this book.

470
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:18,240
I got it a copy of it for you for your birthday recently.

471
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,960
And it's it's a it's an interesting book.

472
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,600
I really implore our listeners out there, if you're readers and you are a fan of who

473
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,120
frame Roger Rabbit, read this book.

474
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:28,360
It's it's pretty good.

475
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:30,320
It's very different from the movie.

476
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,400
I'll spoil that for you.

477
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,920
I wouldn't even say it's close to being the same story.

478
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,560
Yeah, it is a detective story.

479
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,080
Yeah, Roger Rabbit is in it.

480
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,080
Eddie Valiant is in it.

481
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,000
Jessica, Baby Herman.

482
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,480
Some of your favorite characters are in it, but in different ways than you would expect

483
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,040
them to be completely different.

484
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,760
And I just finished it, actually.

485
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:53,760
You did.

486
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:59,400
OK, yeah, I actually listened to the audiobook, which got it really great because it is well,

487
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:05,800
it is a film, not a film noir, but it is a noir, pulpy vibe.

488
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,040
And you reader of the book is very good.

489
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,200
He does all the voices for all the characters.

490
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,120
OK, is Roger Rabbit sounds like Jimmy Stewart?

491
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:16,760
Oh, interesting.

492
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:17,760
Great.

493
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:24,040
Especially when you realize that Jimmy Stewart played in a movie called Harvey Harvey.

494
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,040
Yeah, about an imaginary rabbit.

495
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,600
One of my favorite plays actually is Harvey.

496
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,000
I love that.

497
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,480
Too funny, too funny.

498
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,680
And another big difference.

499
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:41,520
And it's not a huge difference, I guess, because but they are noticeable like references in

500
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,320
who censored Roger Rabbit because it's set in the 80s, I believe, whereas who framed

501
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,320
Roger Rabbit is set in the 1940s.

502
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,240
And so the references are very different that they are able to pull from, which is, you

503
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,880
know, kind of kind of fascinating when you dig into it.

504
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:57,880
Yeah.

505
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,520
But this was a book.

506
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:06,440
And Patrick, can you speak to the a little bit of that early development from the screen?

507
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,440
Yeah.

508
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,760
So I can't tell you exactly why, but so the book was released in 1981 and that very same

509
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,040
year that the book was released, Disney grabbed it and said, this is ours.

510
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,300
We're going to make this movie somewhere somehow.

511
00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:22,300
And they did.

512
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:24,540
Obviously, it was released in 1988.

513
00:26:24,540 --> 00:26:29,840
The president of the company then of Disney, Ron Miller, he knew that Disney needed a hit.

514
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,960
And for some reason, he read this book or heard about this book and thought this is

515
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,040
going to be our juggernaut.

516
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:40,680
This is going to be what's going to save Disney because it had been a while in both live action

517
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,880
and in animation for Disney that they had anything really of note.

518
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,120
Basically, Mary Poppins was maybe the last thing that did really well in theaters for

519
00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:51,320
Disney.

520
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,820
And that was, you know, 10, 15 years before this movie came out.

521
00:26:55,820 --> 00:26:58,720
So Disney was on the struggle bus for a while.

522
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,520
And you can you can there's many wonderful documentaries and books all about, you know,

523
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,800
sort of waking, sleeping beauty and how the Disney Renaissance came to be.

524
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:14,900
And you know, I feel like Ron Miller, kudos to you, sir, because you found the exact project

525
00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:19,780
that I would argue, Vincent, I don't know, and maybe you go with being the journey did

526
00:27:19,780 --> 00:27:21,820
end up kind of saving the company.

527
00:27:21,820 --> 00:27:27,840
It sort of resurrected animation for many different companies, not just Disney, that

528
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,220
people really fell in love with animation after who framed Roger Rabbit.

529
00:27:31,220 --> 00:27:37,200
And it was one of the biggest box office successes of all time at the time for Disney and for

530
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,720
other companies as well.

531
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:39,920
Yep, 100 percent.

532
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:45,120
And I think I'm fascinated by the context of of the Walt Disney Studios in the 70s and

533
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:46,120
80s.

534
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:52,240
And I think for my listeners, especially this is the fascinating nugget of Hollywood history.

535
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,600
As you say, Walt Disney was really in the pits.

536
00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:00,920
This was before the so-called Renaissance that started with the animated Renaissance,

537
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,640
The Little Mermaid, through Lilo and Stitch.

538
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,840
But you know, so the 90s was a big deal.

539
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:16,120
But before then, not a great place for animation at Disney or and and or elsewhere.

540
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:17,120
Yeah.

541
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:24,320
So I I am fascinated by Roger Rabbit's development with how many different parties were involved.

542
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:25,320
Yeah.

543
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,880
So Steven Spielberg was a big player on this film.

544
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,880
Was he a producer?

545
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:33,880
He was.

546
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,200
He didn't jump on it first, though.

547
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:42,080
So a lot of people threw their hat in the ring for this movie when it when development

548
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,320
just really early days first started to happen.

549
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,400
Fun fact, Robert Zemeckis wanted to direct this immediately right away.

550
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,560
He saw the potential in this.

551
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:55,640
But Disney turned him down because this was before Robert Zemeckis was Robert Zemeckis,

552
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:56,640
right?

553
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,440
He had not yet directed Back to the Future.

554
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,400
He hadn't done anything yet, basically.

555
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,760
And so Disney was like, sorry about it.

556
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:08,040
We want somebody bigger than you to do this.

557
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,840
So they did a lot of testing at first.

558
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,440
They hired a couple of writers.

559
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:16,840
They hired an animator whose name was Daryl Van Ciders, I believe.

560
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,800
C I T T E R S. I'm going to maybe hopefully it's Ciders.

561
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,280
I'm just going to call them Ciders from now on to head up animation.

562
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,900
He was big at Warner Brothers and Looney Tunes at the time.

563
00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:31,320
It was interesting that they kind of knew right away because the book does involve many

564
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,060
different characters from many different companies.

565
00:29:34,060 --> 00:29:39,720
And I don't know how he got around those rights, but he names them all in his book and apparently

566
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,800
did not get sued by anybody.

567
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,920
And so I think Disney knew that they had to sort of collaborate somehow.

568
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,080
So they immediately hired an animator who already knew intimately the Warner Brothers

569
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:50,640
and Looney Tunes characters.

570
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:51,640
Right.

571
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,420
Well, it was it was Spielberg who I saw with Kathleen Kennedy were executive producers

572
00:29:55,420 --> 00:29:56,420
on the film.

573
00:29:56,420 --> 00:29:57,420
Yes.

574
00:29:57,420 --> 00:30:01,240
But it was Spielberg using his clout to convince.

575
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:02,240
Yep.

576
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,760
Others, Warner Brothers, Flesher, Flesher Studios.

577
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,580
Sorry, like Woody Woodpecker to to to collaborate with Disney.

578
00:30:11,580 --> 00:30:13,440
This had never happened before.

579
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:14,440
Ever before.

580
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,040
It hasn't happened since.

581
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,360
No, it was a stroke of genius that they brought him on.

582
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:25,400
Yeah, just a stroke of genius and good luck, I feel as well, because he wasn't doing it

583
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,140
doing anything else at the time, which is weird because his studio was just getting

584
00:30:29,140 --> 00:30:30,600
off the ground.

585
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,120
This was I think in 1985.

586
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,120
So Michael.

587
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,120
So there's a changing of the guards at Disney.

588
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,120
Right.

589
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,960
Michael Eisner comes on and he has been largely known as he wants to commercialize Disney.

590
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,900
And whether or not you agreed with that, he brought a lot of money into the company.

591
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:45,280
So he knew right away we got it.

592
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,880
We got to get Steven Spielberg, who at the time, yeah, Kathleen Kennedy, as you said,

593
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,680
and Frank Marshall were all three of them heading up this production company, Abelon

594
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,320
production company.

595
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,360
And I don't see this movie getting made without them.

596
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:00,360
Right.

597
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,040
I mean, it just wouldn't have happened.

598
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:06,520
Not on the scale that it did, because they had the money, the know how, the clout.

599
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:07,520
Right.

600
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,200
Like you said, because Steven Spielberg was responsible for getting all of these crazy

601
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,800
companies to say yes, to be a part of a Disney movie, even though their name wasn't going

602
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:16,800
to be billed.

603
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,840
Basically, it was going to be billed as a Disney movie.

604
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,920
And it was obviously so pretty wild.

605
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,760
Yeah.

606
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,520
So you saying Frank Marshall just makes me just want to just want to say I pulled a lot

607
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:36,360
of my information from the DVD audio commentary, which has producer Frank Marshall, director

608
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:43,620
Robert Zemeckis, screenwriters Jeffrey Price, Peter Seaman, associate producer Steve Starkey

609
00:31:43,620 --> 00:31:48,000
and visual effects artist Ken Ralston.

610
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,640
So most of what I'm going to say is pulled from that commentary.

611
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:52,640
Yeah.

612
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:53,760
It's very insightful.

613
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,360
It's really good.

614
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:56,360
Definitely watch it.

615
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:57,880
I think it's on Disney Plus as well.

616
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,160
If you look at the go to the deleted scene section, and I think there's a commentary

617
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,160
section there too.

618
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:04,920
And it's really good.

619
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:05,920
Really, really good.

620
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,920
OK.

621
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,160
So I guess if we zoom right along through here on the timeline.

622
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,680
So we got Steven Spielberg.

623
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:17,400
Steven Spielberg sort of gets all of these Warner Brothers, the Fleischer Studios, as

624
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:22,080
you said, Harvey Comics, a bunch of different companies that have all of these characters

625
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,760
that they need and want.

626
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:25,760
Most of them said yes.

627
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,560
A lot of them said no.

628
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:33,680
But once they got all of these rights, I think they they didn't know what they were going

629
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,980
to get until they got Steven Spielberg on board and he got them a lot of what they wanted.

630
00:32:38,980 --> 00:32:45,280
So they're they get approved for a 30 million dollar budget with this movie, right?

631
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:51,020
Which at the time, 30 million dollars was the most expensive animated movie of all time

632
00:32:51,020 --> 00:32:52,240
at the time.

633
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,080
For comparison, E.T. was only made for 10 million dollars.

634
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,840
And that was an enormous movie.

635
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,960
And so if you think about 30 million dollars, they were like, oh, we can't do this.

636
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,740
So but it gets greenlit.

637
00:33:05,740 --> 00:33:08,460
They get all of these these characters on board.

638
00:33:08,460 --> 00:33:11,800
They get all of these different companies on board.

639
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,720
The budget starts to balloon.

640
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,140
I can't remember the exact number.

641
00:33:17,140 --> 00:33:22,000
It jumped up to like 50 or 60 million dollars after this because they realized there's just

642
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,920
no way they can do all this work without a larger budget.

643
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,480
And again, thank goodness we have Michael Eisner on board who was all in.

644
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,560
He just said yes to everything, basically.

645
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,880
Well, I don't know if it was Eisner, but sure.

646
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:38,880
Yeah.

647
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:44,600
But but Disney still had to be convinced along the way that it was worth the money they were

648
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:45,600
investing.

649
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:46,600
Right.

650
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:52,400
And again, from this commentary, Disney wanted at first only 12 minutes of animation because

651
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,440
that's where most of their money was going to be spent.

652
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:56,440
Right.

653
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,240
12 minutes.

654
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,480
It ended up being 54 minutes.

655
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,000
And then final cut.

656
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:08,000
We have 48 minutes of animation in this movie.

657
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,480
Which is I mean, half the movie, basically.

658
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,600
There's not a scene really that doesn't have some form of animation in it.

659
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,500
If it even it's just a cell of something like there is animation in almost every single

660
00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:24,640
frame, which is what is crazy to think that they only they signed on for 12 minutes and

661
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,380
they got basically the full right.

662
00:34:26,380 --> 00:34:29,440
So you talk about a ballooning budget, whatever the number was.

663
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:30,440
Yeah.

664
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,840
You can just tell based on that it was getting out of hand.

665
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:39,480
And also we talk about these these cartoon characters, not inexpensive.

666
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:44,800
So we had obviously Warner Brothers owns the rights to the Looney Tunes.

667
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,240
Fleischer Studios.

668
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:48,100
I think I said Woody Woodpecker.

669
00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:49,100
That's actually universal.

670
00:34:49,100 --> 00:34:52,560
But a character like Betty Boop is your studios.

671
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,920
She has she like she's a real person.

672
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,440
I'm going to refer to all these animated 100 percent.

673
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:58,440
You have to.

674
00:34:58,440 --> 00:34:59,440
Yeah.

675
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,200
Ms. Boop plays a wonderful part.

676
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,200
Yes.

677
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,520
In Roger Rabbit.

678
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:13,240
But you know, characters like Felix the cat, which, you know, you talk about classic animation.

679
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:17,360
There's a lot of things I'm not even an expert in, but I'll see that character and I go,

680
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,720
oh, yeah, I've seen that just like in the cultural through the cultural osmosis.

681
00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:28,240
But Patrick, who are some characters that they couldn't get for this movie?

682
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:31,960
So a lot, actually, I imagine.

683
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:38,640
But the big ones that they really wanted to get were like Popeye and Tom and Jerry and

684
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,160
Casper the friendly ghost were were ones that they they I think they in the original

685
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:48,800
script, they had parts written for these characters, but they just they couldn't reach an agreement

686
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,260
with their perspective companies.

687
00:35:51,260 --> 00:35:54,440
And so they sadly did not make did not make a list.

688
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,080
So they some rewrites had to happen.

689
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,240
Some different characters shifted in and out of different roles, I think, at the time.

690
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:02,760
So unfortunately, they couldn't get them.

691
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:11,000
I want to be a fly on the wall during those agreement negotiations of so just some fun

692
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:16,080
things that came out of the negotiations that were like screen time for animated characters

693
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,120
as though they're like actors in their trailer waiting for their contracts to be approved

694
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:21,120
or whatever.

695
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,120
It's it's crazy.

696
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:28,000
So the only reason they got big characters like Bugs Bunny or a Daffy Duck, right, is

697
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:33,360
that they agreed to give them exactly the same amount of screen time as their counterpart

698
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:34,720
at Disney would have.

699
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:39,800
So that's why you have a lot of scenes where it's Donald Duck and Daffy Duck doing pianos

700
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,680
and they have the exact amount of screen time because they weren't going to get the Daffy

701
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:50,040
Duck unless he got as much billing rights as Donald Duck, which is like it's crazy.

702
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,160
You hear this same thing with actual actors.

703
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,160
Yes, yes.

704
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:55,160
Right.

705
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,960
I don't want to do that movie if I'm getting second billing.

706
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,200
So right.

707
00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:59,640
The lawyers do their thing.

708
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:00,640
Yeah.

709
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,360
Or if I only have seven lines and this other actor who is the same getting paid the same

710
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,520
as much amount as me has eight lines.

711
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:07,520
I'm not doing it.

712
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,480
We're both going to have the same number of lines.

713
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:15,680
So I think I might love Looney Tunes as much as you love Disney.

714
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:16,680
Sure.

715
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:21,680
So yeah, Donald Duck does not get priority over Daffy.

716
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,120
I'm sorry.

717
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,320
Daffy is clearly the superior duck.

718
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:31,680
Yeah, we'll have a fight about that.

719
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:32,680
That's fine.

720
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:33,680
We'll put a pin in that one.

721
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,520
But yeah, and even like Mickey Mouse, Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny, I guess, they decided

722
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,200
that they were the two biggest stars at Disney.

723
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,120
And so they gave them the exact amount of screen time.

724
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:48,800
And this flows through to even the end of the movie where Porky Pig comes out and then

725
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:49,960
Tinkerbell comes out.

726
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,200
And so you get the exact amount of screen time.

727
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:54,840
That was Eisner's touch, actually.

728
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,480
He was the one who said we need Tink in this.

729
00:37:58,480 --> 00:37:59,480
We need.

730
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,640
Yeah, he put Tinkerbell in there for the same reason.

731
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,320
We don't want to end a Disney movie with a Warner Brothers ending.

732
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,760
Doesn't make sense at all.

733
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:09,760
It was it was great.

734
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:10,760
I mean, it was a class.

735
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,240
It was just a touch of genius, I feel like.

736
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:14,720
But yeah, you just see you see those.

737
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:17,480
So if you watch the movie, look for those little partnerships that happen throughout

738
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,600
the movie of like, oh, interesting.

739
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,080
There's that character next to that character and they have the same amount of screen time,

740
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,640
which is a fascinating thing.

741
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,520
Can I ask you something?

742
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:27,520
Yeah.

743
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:35,600
Are there like what what kind of movies can we see Mickey Mouse and and his friends in?

744
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,120
Because I feel like so just from like an outsider's perspective.

745
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,120
Sure.

746
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,840
The Looney Tunes are everywhere.

747
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,960
Those cartoons ran nonstop back in the day on Cartoon Network.

748
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:46,960
Yeah.

749
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:53,360
But even on the Disney Channel, I don't remember any of the Disney shorts in the classic, you

750
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:54,800
know, 30s and 40s and 50s.

751
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,160
I'm sure Disney made Mickey Mouse shorts.

752
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,160
Hundreds.

753
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,160
Where are they?

754
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:02,160
They're they're on Disney+.

755
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,200
You can you can look at that as a whole.

756
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,960
Yeah, there's like a there's like a I can't remember.

757
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,400
There's like a shorts collection or something.

758
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,000
If you if you look, if you sift through them, they're not all there.

759
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,840
I mean, some of them I think maybe are problematic a little bit or they just they're just way

760
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,840
too old to to put them anywhere.

761
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:19,840
But they're out there.

762
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:20,840
Hundreds and hundreds.

763
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,560
Donald Duck, I think, actually has more shorts than Mickey Mouse does because they used Donald

764
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,360
Duck in war videos.

765
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:29,440
Yeah, they did.

766
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,600
So he's out there a ton.

767
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:38,640
There's not a lot of when it comes to feature length animated movies that star the classic

768
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:39,640
The Fab Five.

769
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:44,120
We'll call them Mickey Mini, Donald, Pluto, Daisy, if you want to do six.

770
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:45,120
Goofy.

771
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:46,120
Goofy.

772
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:47,120
Yep.

773
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:48,120
There's not a ton.

774
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:49,960
There's like a goofy movie which is out there.

775
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:55,560
Mickey Mouse, though, they they don't like to trot him out unless it's a Mickey Mouse

776
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,000
vehicle necessarily.

777
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,760
And he's not really a feature length animated character.

778
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:07,020
He's in a lot of longer shorts that like The Prince and the Popper or Mickey's Christmas

779
00:40:07,020 --> 00:40:09,080
Carol or Mickey and the Beanstalk.

780
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,320
Those are some of the bigger known ones.

781
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:16,160
So no, you're not going to see a lot of feature length animated movies with with those characters.

782
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,560
They kind of preserve them for when they really want to use them, which is mostly in the parks,

783
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:21,560
to be honest, nowadays.

784
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:22,560
Yeah.

785
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:28,480
But I mean, and I'm just observing how interesting of a choice that is.

786
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:29,480
Yeah.

787
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:34,640
Mickey Mouse is, along with bugs, got to shout out my man there.

788
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:35,640
Yeah.

789
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:41,240
The most recognizable animated character across the globe in the world.

790
00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:42,240
Yeah.

791
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:43,760
Actually think he Mickey Mouse is number one.

792
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,360
Bugs is number two.

793
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:54,040
But yeah, you'd think they would want to capitalize on that in terms of feature length movies.

794
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:55,400
I don't think they need to, though.

795
00:40:55,400 --> 00:41:00,560
I think this is such an interesting conversation to have on a monster podcast as well.

796
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,520
But I think they I don't know this as a fact.

797
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,800
But the way that they use Mickey Mouse is that he's sort of the boss of Disney.

798
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,620
Like he is actually the CEO of Disney.

799
00:41:11,620 --> 00:41:16,560
And so he's used for, I don't know, advertising Disney, basically.

800
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:17,800
He's just the face of Disney.

801
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:23,880
And so to put him in a movie, a feature length movie, I think waters down the clout of Mickey

802
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:24,880
Mouse.

803
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:25,880
You know what?

804
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:26,880
We can we can move on.

805
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:35,920
But I also I want to say that there is a Steamboat Willie slasher movie.

806
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:36,920
Yes.

807
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:42,640
Yes, there is, because the rights have passed and so it's everyone grabbed onto it and said,

808
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,840
we're doing something crazy with Steamboat Willie.

809
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:47,840
Stay tuned, everybody.

810
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:55,080
At least the Steamboat Willie version of Mickey Mouse will be in a feature length film.

811
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,720
And it will be featured on this podcast as well.

812
00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:01,840
Not a Disney movie, to be clear.

813
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:13,520
Fair, fair, fair, fair, fair, fair.

814
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,200
Patrick Vincent.

815
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:21,480
We need to throw down and quiz each other.

816
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,880
OK, the gloves are going to come off the little cartoon white gloves.

817
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:26,880
Yes.

818
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:32,160
I interrupt this program for a impromptu Roger Rabbit quiz, yeah.

819
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,120
Pop quiz and not just Roger Rabbit.

820
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:36,120
This is true.

821
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,120
My my quiz.

822
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:44,080
The questions I'm going to ask you relate to cartoons, Disney and Warner Brothers.

823
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,360
And they have a monster theme to them.

824
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:48,360
Awesome.

825
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:49,360
Awesome.

826
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:54,600
Mine are Disney specific, but related somehow to who framed Roger Rabbit.

827
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,400
I'm super excited about this.

828
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:58,880
We're trying something new, everybody.

829
00:42:58,880 --> 00:42:59,880
A little behind the scenes.

830
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:00,880
We're trying something new.

831
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:02,440
So let's see if you like it.

832
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,200
If not, we're still going to do it probably.

833
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,200
All right.

834
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,400
All right.

835
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,160
Who wants to go first?

836
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:12,160
You hit me first.

837
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:13,760
OK, is there a prize at the end of this?

838
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,360
No, the prize is we get to keep doing the podcast.

839
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:17,360
Yeah.

840
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,080
You know, just you know, if you win, Disney is the best.

841
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,240
And if I win.

842
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:28,040
On this episode of Magic and Monsters, I am playing for Bugs Bunny.

843
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,040
Oh, OK.

844
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:30,040
OK.

845
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,680
It's Rabbit versus Rabbit.

846
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,800
So I'm playing for Roger Rabbit and you're playing for Bugs Bunny.

847
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:35,800
OK.

848
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:36,800
All right.

849
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,840
OK, so I'm going to ask you a question first.

850
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:39,840
Is that what we're saying?

851
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:40,840
Yeah.

852
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:41,840
Here we go.

853
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:47,480
So Hollywood Studios in Orlando opened a year after Roger Rabbit was released.

854
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,600
And you could argue that much of this park drew inspiration from the art direction of

855
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,640
who framed Roger Rabbit.

856
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:58,120
In fact, they had originally planned to have a Roger Rabbit themed area that would have

857
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:02,560
represented Toontown, much like they have in Disneyland.

858
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,480
The idea was, of course, scrapped.

859
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:09,200
But there are little Easter eggs throughout the park of referencing who framed Roger Rabbit,

860
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:14,520
one of which is a window and blinds with a cutout of of Roger Rabbit, replicating the

861
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,280
scene from the movie where he jumps out of the window.

862
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,600
Where in the park is this window located?

863
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,320
All right.

864
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,040
It's a it's a multiple choice.

865
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,680
OK, thank goodness.

866
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:28,680
Thank Elmer Fudd.

867
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:29,680
I don't know.

868
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:30,680
Yeah, yeah.

869
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,600
OK, so it's above one of these restaurants.

870
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,480
Is it above the 50s prime time?

871
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:40,560
Is it above Hollywood and Vine or is it above the Brown Derby?

872
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:46,760
Oh, I have walked by all those restaurants.

873
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:52,520
I have to think I'm going to say Hollywood and Vine.

874
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:57,520
You are correct.

875
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:58,520
Well done.

876
00:44:58,520 --> 00:44:59,520
Well done.

877
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:00,520
Yes.

878
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,400
Right in the heart, basically, of Echo Lake.

879
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:03,400
All right.

880
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:04,400
Nice.

881
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:10,440
It's been too long to have been to Hollywood Studios, but I know low key my favorite park.

882
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,880
It's it's yeah, I would have to agree with you.

883
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,040
And I actually sent you a picture of this last time I was there a couple of weeks ago.

884
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,040
All right.

885
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,040
All right.

886
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:20,040
I got one for you here.

887
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:21,040
So I'm nervous.

888
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:22,040
OK.

889
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:27,920
Millicent Patrick was one of the first female animators at Disney when she was hired in

890
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:28,920
1939.

891
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:36,960
OK, she helped animate the Night at Bald Mountain sequence of Fantasia released in 1940.

892
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:43,040
This in and of itself was inspired by the 1925 German film Faust from 1926.

893
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:44,040
OK.

894
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:49,480
Millicent Patrick would later distinguish herself as the designer of which famous movie

895
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,840
monster is it a the creature from the Black Lagoon?

896
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,320
Oh, be the Wolfman.

897
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:03,640
He the monster in the beast from twenty thousand fathoms.

898
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:04,640
What?

899
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:05,640
OK.

900
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,640
You said OK, can I ask you a follow up question?

901
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,680
OK, just I just.

902
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,160
You're doing new things.

903
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:15,740
I know logistically.

904
00:46:15,740 --> 00:46:18,040
You said she would later be known as right.

905
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,640
So this would have happened after Night at Bald Mountain or was this before?

906
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,160
After this was after really?

907
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:32,120
OK, the fact that any of these creatures were created after I'm going to go with based on

908
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:33,740
aesthetic alone.

909
00:46:33,740 --> 00:46:40,840
If I'm thinking of the Night on Bald Mountain, the creature from the Black Lagoon, you are

910
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:41,840
correct.

911
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,360
Hey, amazing.

912
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,400
I don't know if that's why it would have.

913
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,480
But for some reason, those two characters look a little bit similar to me.

914
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:51,560
Yeah, yeah.

915
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:57,160
And Millicent Patrick, she only in the only very recently has been getting the recognition

916
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:58,680
due to her.

917
00:46:58,680 --> 00:46:59,680
Wow.

918
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:06,240
The male heads of, you know, Hollywood kind of suppress that for many decades.

919
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:07,240
Sure.

920
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:09,520
Yeah, she's a she's a trailblazer.

921
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:10,520
That's amazing.

922
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:11,520
Amazing.

923
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:12,520
All right.

924
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:18,080
Well, OK, my next question for you actually kind of has to do with amazing women in animation.

925
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:19,240
So here we go.

926
00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:20,560
Jessica Rabbit.

927
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:28,300
Well, the nightclub that Jessica Rabbit performs in has a very special name to it, and it has

928
00:47:28,300 --> 00:47:34,160
to do with some very famous ladies within the Disney company.

929
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,600
Is the name of the nightclub Club 33?

930
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:43,280
Is it the ink and paint club or is it the adventurers club?

931
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:47,360
Oh, wow.

932
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:48,360
Small details.

933
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:54,120
I'm going to say the adventurers club.

934
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:58,300
I can see why you would guess that because it is an actual club within Disney, but that's

935
00:47:58,300 --> 00:47:59,300
not the correct answer.

936
00:47:59,300 --> 00:48:05,680
It is the ink and paint club, which is named after the very famous ink and paint department,

937
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,880
which was established in 1932, celebrating.

938
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,780
Well, we celebrate them now, but they weren't celebrated quite so much then the women who

939
00:48:12,780 --> 00:48:17,080
were in charge of painting all of the cells in Disney cartoons.

940
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,080
Millicent Patrick was one of those ladies.

941
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:23,540
I was going to say, I believe she was one of the founders of the ink and paint club.

942
00:48:23,540 --> 00:48:25,440
So I'll take the loss.

943
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:26,440
I'll take the hit.

944
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:27,440
It's fine.

945
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:38,320
I thought that you said not ink and paint, but ink and paint as in indigenous peoples.

946
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:39,320
Gotcha.

947
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:40,320
Sorry.

948
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,520
I will enunciate my next question a lot better for you.

949
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,840
I'll find a word to mispronounce in my question for you.

950
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:49,840
Yes.

951
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:50,840
Wonderful.

952
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:51,840
Wonderful.

953
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:52,840
OK.

954
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:53,840
OK.

955
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:54,840
Yes.

956
00:48:54,840 --> 00:49:03,840
Bugs Bunny confronts a tall, hairy orange monster named Gossamer in two shorts, hair

957
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:09,120
raising hair and water, water, every hair.

958
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,120
Now the mic.

959
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:14,520
Now my question is, what does Gossamer wear on his feet?

960
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:22,400
A platform shoes, B tennis shoes or C roller skates?

961
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,400
Oh, wow.

962
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:25,400
OK.

963
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:26,840
I can picture this character.

964
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:32,120
I know exactly who you're talking about, but I can't scan down to see his feet.

965
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,640
Oh, gosh.

966
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,200
I don't I feel like it's not roller skates.

967
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,760
I feel like that's a little too wild to animate, but I'm probably wrong.

968
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,360
I'm going to go with tennis shoes.

969
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:43,640
I feel like it's tennis shoes.

970
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,800
I feel like it's a basic situation because he stole he so extravagant.

971
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:48,800
Yeah.

972
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:49,800
Well, it's tennis shoes.

973
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:50,800
Yeah.

974
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,640
So you're technically winning.

975
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,800
Fair.

976
00:49:58,800 --> 00:49:59,800
That was a strong guess, though.

977
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,800
I have to.

978
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,880
Oh, man.

979
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:08,480
Fun fact, though, I did not know the fun fact.

980
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,120
I didn't know that he even had a name.

981
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,160
I just thought he was like the Orange Harry guy or something.

982
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:14,160
Yeah.

983
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,640
Well, his name is something I always have to remind myself of, but it's Gossamer.

984
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:19,640
I like it.

985
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:24,080
I wonder if the Disney version of Gossamer is Sweetums, the big, huge Muppet, the big

986
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:25,080
Harry Muppet.

987
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:29,440
I can see that the Muppet show, although not technically a Disney character, but they own

988
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:30,440
him now.

989
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:31,440
Anyways.

990
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,440
OK, all right.

991
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:34,440
Yeah.

992
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:35,440
All right.

993
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:36,760
Last question.

994
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:41,920
So as we discuss in this episode, who framed Roger Rabbit, of course, was not the first

995
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,920
Disney project to use live action and animation.

996
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:52,080
So can you name the first Disney project that did use live action and animation at the same

997
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:53,520
time?

998
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,960
Was it the Shaggy Dog?

999
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:03,320
Was it the three Caballeros or was it Alice's Wonderland?

1000
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:04,560
This is not my guess.

1001
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:05,560
I'm just clarifying.

1002
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:06,560
Great.

1003
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,400
Alice's Wonderland or Alice in Wonderland?

1004
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,000
That's a very good observation.

1005
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:16,400
I did, in fact, say Alice's Wonderland, not Alice in Wonderland.

1006
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,240
Mr. Ink in Paint.

1007
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:24,320
OK, you heard very not at all what I said, but OK, fair.

1008
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:25,320
I'll give it to you.

1009
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,840
I'll give it to you.

1010
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:33,200
You know, because I do love these characters, I'm going to say the three Caballeros.

1011
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,840
I'll give you a half a point for this because I believe the three Caballeros was the first

1012
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:42,920
full length animated project that used animation and live action.

1013
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:48,800
But it was, in fact, Alice's Wonderland way back in 1923, which would have been the start

1014
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:54,720
of the Alice comedies, which was also the same year that the Disney Brothers Studio

1015
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:57,920
was created, now, of course, known as the Walt Disney Company.

1016
00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:58,920
Wow.

1017
00:51:58,920 --> 00:51:59,920
I know.

1018
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:00,920
There's some history for you.

1019
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:02,720
Yeah, really and truly.

1020
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:08,720
So that kind of started and not saved, but it jumpstarted the Walt Disney Company.

1021
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:11,840
And then who frame Roger Rabbit sort of saved the Disney Company.

1022
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,600
So a nice little book in there.

1023
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,800
OK, so let's let's let's recap our points here.

1024
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,640
So I have one and a half points.

1025
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,360
I'll give you one and three quarters because of Inken.

1026
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,360
OK, I have one and some change.

1027
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:27,360
Great.

1028
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:28,360
You have two points.

1029
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:29,360
I do.

1030
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:30,880
I do have a strong two.

1031
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:31,880
OK.

1032
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:33,920
So you're just playing for fun now.

1033
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,880
Now it's just I'm going to I'm all in on this one.

1034
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:37,880
All the chips are on the table.

1035
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:38,880
OK, all right.

1036
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:39,880
Nothing to lose.

1037
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:40,880
Nothing to lose.

1038
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,580
You know, we can keep the points going, though, throughout the whole Magic and Monster series.

1039
00:52:44,580 --> 00:52:46,560
So this is not be the end, right?

1040
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,520
We'll come back and I'll take the lead next time.

1041
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:50,520
All right.

1042
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:51,520
Here we go.

1043
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:52,520
I believe in you.

1044
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:53,520
I believe in you.

1045
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,840
So Warner Brothers had Looney Tunes and Mary Melodies.

1046
00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:02,960
We had silly symphonies, a series of short animated cartoons from 1929 to 1939.

1047
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,720
What is the name of the very first silly symphony?

1048
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:08,000
Oh, gosh.

1049
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,600
So, you know, I know, you know it.

1050
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:19,440
Is it the graveyard jamboree, the skeleton dance or Mickey and Donald Hunt, Witches in

1051
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,960
the Moonlight?

1052
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,840
Are all three of these actual titles or did you make up two of them?

1053
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:30,600
I don't know.

1054
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:36,320
It's it's the skeleton dance, right?

1055
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:37,320
Yes.

1056
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,680
I did make up the other two.

1057
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:41,680
OK, great.

1058
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,680
I was like, I don't feel like those are titles.

1059
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,080
So it's got to be.

1060
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,080
Oh, amazing.

1061
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:50,340
Amazing.

1062
00:53:50,340 --> 00:53:53,200
There's actually a really interesting documentary about the making of the skeleton dance.

1063
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:54,200
I think it's on YouTube.

1064
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:55,200
You should go look it up.

1065
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:56,880
Yeah, I definitely want to.

1066
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:06,940
I just think that it's really neat that Disney's first cartoon short is a horror based, very

1067
00:54:06,940 --> 00:54:09,800
macabre story.

1068
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:11,140
It's pretty creepy, actually.

1069
00:54:11,140 --> 00:54:12,140
It's actually really.

1070
00:54:12,140 --> 00:54:17,240
Yeah, macabre is a really good word for it because it's it's it's out there for Disney,

1071
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:18,240
for sure.

1072
00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:20,640
Oh, good stuff.

1073
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:21,640
Good.

1074
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:22,640
All right.

1075
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:23,640
Great.

1076
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,640
So we'll end this final score.

1077
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:26,640
Yeah, three.

1078
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:27,640
All right.

1079
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:31,120
And since I'm going to say one and a half.

1080
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,120
Oh, great.

1081
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:33,120
I like it.

1082
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:34,120
I like your modesty there.

1083
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,640
I was going to be generous and give you one and three quarters, but one and a half it

1084
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:37,640
is.

1085
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:39,680
Oh, yeah, I just can't do math.

1086
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:41,800
I thought that was less than one half.

1087
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,720
You know what?

1088
00:54:43,720 --> 00:54:44,720
For that, you're back.

1089
00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:45,720
You're down to one and a half.

1090
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:46,720
One and a half it is.

1091
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:47,720
It's easy.

1092
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:49,440
Yeah, it's easier for me to remember.

1093
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:50,440
Oh, amazing.

1094
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:51,440
Amazing.

1095
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:52,440
Well, this was fun.

1096
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,040
Thank you for bringing this to the table, Vincent.

1097
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,080
And now, I guess, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

1098
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,080
Yep.

1099
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:13,240
OK, so let's get let's get back on track with before we get into sort of the filming process

1100
00:55:13,240 --> 00:55:14,760
of the movie.

1101
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:19,880
So in 1985, then, right, we're fast forwarding in time here a little bit.

1102
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:24,800
Robert Zemeckis, they don't have a director yet for the movie still, but they but they

1103
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:30,120
do have a script and they do have all the characters are purchased and it's going forward.

1104
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:34,760
Robert Zemeckis has since directed Romancing the Stone and Back to the Future, both of

1105
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:36,440
which were massive box office hits.

1106
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:42,240
And so Disney said, OK, you can come on board now now that he now that he has a proven track

1107
00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:44,160
record of making money, which is makes sense.

1108
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:48,320
I mean, because the point of this movie is to make Disney as much money as possible because

1109
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,160
they're they're they're flopping around right now.

1110
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,600
They don't know what's going on in the theater.

1111
00:55:53,600 --> 00:56:00,560
So they bring on Robert Zemeckis, who has an established relationship with Steven Spielberg.

1112
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:01,560
Thank goodness.

1113
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:02,920
So they're working really well together.

1114
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:09,680
The two of them decide to get rid of Vansiders as the director of animation.

1115
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:14,240
And instead, they get Richard Williams, who already has a proven track record.

1116
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:15,840
He's an Academy Award winner at the time.

1117
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:17,840
He's got a few Emmys under his belt.

1118
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:18,840
He's their guy.

1119
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,560
However, Williams doesn't initially want to do the movie.

1120
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:28,720
But Disney basically gives him creative control over the animation of this movie.

1121
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:35,440
And they offer to move the production for him from Los Angeles to England.

1122
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:40,360
So the entire movie then is moved to England for this animator.

1123
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:46,920
And I feel like, again, without Richard Williams, this movie doesn't work at all.

1124
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:54,720
His his know how in and how to make this animation work pays off tenfold.

1125
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:58,880
He adds all these really amazing touches to the movie.

1126
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,500
For example, like the just the creation of Roger Rabbit himself.

1127
00:57:02,500 --> 00:57:06,360
His vision of Roger Rabbit was a combination of everyone's favorite characters.

1128
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:10,080
So Roger Rabbit has droopy dogs, red swatch of hair.

1129
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:11,400
He's got goofy overalls.

1130
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:16,440
He's got porky pigs, bow tie, Mickey Mouse's gloves and Bugs Bunny's ears and cheeks.

1131
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:21,560
So he knew to throw all these loving and adored characters together to make a character that

1132
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:23,760
everyone was going to fall in love with visually.

1133
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:28,300
I mean, genius, I feel like it's kind of wild.

1134
00:57:28,300 --> 00:57:30,440
That mind is amazing to me.

1135
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:34,320
Yeah, I am just looking up Richard Williams is filmography.

1136
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,240
Some of the movies he's worked on.

1137
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:37,240
Sure.

1138
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:42,240
As maybe, well, actor, writer.

1139
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:48,160
Well, nothing's really coming up quickly.

1140
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:49,160
He knows what he's doing.

1141
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:54,160
I guess I cut the point of everything I just said for the past 30 seconds.

1142
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:55,160
Delete it.

1143
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:56,160
Amazing.

1144
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:57,160
Amazing.

1145
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:01,880
Another smart thing that he does, Richard Williams, he brings on an associate producer,

1146
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:02,880
basically.

1147
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:09,840
He's an up and comer by the name of Don Hahn, who interestingly has been on the GDTD podcast.

1148
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:14,400
But Don Hahn thankfully came onto this movie because he, after this movie, he would go

1149
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:20,320
on to produce a few small films like Beauty and the Beast, The Hunchback of Notre Dame,

1150
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:21,320
The Lion King.

1151
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:27,440
And this launched the career of Don Hahn, basically, which is pretty incredible.

1152
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:34,320
So a lot of things fell into place during the production casting of this movie that,

1153
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:39,000
A, this movie doesn't get made without them and B, a lot of other movies don't get made

1154
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,840
without them being involved in this movie.

1155
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:41,840
It's true.

1156
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:42,840
It's pretty wild.

1157
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:47,120
Yeah, when you think about, again, the historical context of Disney at this time.

1158
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:48,120
Yeah.

1159
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:51,440
It being shot in the UK saved a lot of money, too.

1160
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:52,440
It was very cheap.

1161
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,320
It was cheaper than shooting in Hollywood.

1162
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,720
And they did their casting in the UK, too.

1163
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:00,920
So Bob Hoskins as Eddie Valiant.

1164
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:01,920
Sure.

1165
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:03,880
He's a British actor.

1166
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:12,720
You would never know it because he just so perfectly embodies a Los Angeles detective.

1167
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:17,760
How he didn't even get nominated for an Academy Award for playing this role is beyond me because

1168
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,280
really, and truly, I don't this is not hyperbole.

1169
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,440
He's perfect in this movie, in this role.

1170
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:27,520
You believe you can smell the booze coming off of him when he's on screen.

1171
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:28,520
You know what I mean?

1172
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:29,520
He just gets it.

1173
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:30,520
He knows what he's doing.

1174
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:34,320
And it was his physical acting, too, that won him the part.

1175
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:41,280
So Hoskins is pantomiming essentially when he's by himself because all the animation

1176
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,440
was added in later.

1177
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:49,000
And maybe an actor standing in for in place of Roger Rabbit, the character.

1178
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,160
But it was Hoskins doing everything in a vacuum.

1179
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:59,520
He didn't know what this was going to look like, sound like.

1180
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:05,680
And I think Hoskins' background is in a lot of physical theater as well, which you can

1181
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:11,600
see a taste of right at the end of the movie when Hoskins, when Eddie Valiant is doing

1182
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:18,940
a little routine to throw off the weasels.

1183
01:00:18,940 --> 01:00:24,400
But you can see what a natural he is in those moments with just his pratfalls and his tumbling

1184
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,880
and his clowning, really.

1185
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:27,880
Absolutely.

1186
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:28,880
Absolutely.

1187
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:33,920
Well, let's talk about so you mentioned the acting of him is amazing and him not knowing

1188
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:38,880
what these characters are necessarily going to look like in the filming of this movie.

1189
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:40,280
There were many characters that you're right.

1190
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:44,280
But Jessica Rabbit, he had no idea what she was going to look like until post-production

1191
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:45,280
basically.

1192
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,720
So they just tell him, imagine the most beautiful woman you've ever seen.

1193
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,440
And it worked like he is so good at what he's doing.

1194
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:56,120
But they realized during the filming that they have to figure out all these tricks of

1195
01:00:56,120 --> 01:01:01,320
how to film this movie, knowing that we have moving cameras, which almost never happens

1196
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:06,480
or has happened before in an animated slash live action movie.

1197
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:08,240
So they're breaking all the rules here already.

1198
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,320
And so they have to figure out how to draw this and how are we going to keep it level?

1199
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:17,000
And so they do end up creating a bunch of puppets for the movie of some of these characters

1200
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:21,800
like Roger Rabbit that would stand in that would be to scale, I think of what it would

1201
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,840
actually be on the screen that he can then have an eye focus on.

1202
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:31,920
And so you notice that his eye level is always in the correct spot because they have these

1203
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:35,400
puppets in place that then they later scrub out and add in the animation.

1204
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,900
It's just it's so fascinating, the making of this movie that you think of puppetry is

1205
01:01:39,900 --> 01:01:41,800
involved in this animated movie.

1206
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:42,800
Yeah.

1207
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:51,680
The nightclub scene starring Miss Boop features a lot of penguin waiters carrying around trick

1208
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:53,360
trays of cocktails.

1209
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:58,280
And there's an octopus, an animated octopus behind the bar favorite with eight arms, you

1210
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:06,280
know, swill and drinks and making drinks and all those were puppet stand ins.

1211
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:07,280
Yeah.

1212
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,680
And I can't even imagine.

1213
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:13,880
I don't know if it exists, but I'd love to see behind the scenes footage of whatever

1214
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:16,520
it looked like before the animation was put in.

1215
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,880
Oh, that would be such a good the raw footage of it would be so cool to see because they

1216
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:25,720
yeah, they have like the octopus, for example, there were marionettes above the soundstage

1217
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:30,280
moving the drinks and things and they were tied to things that the actor could then pull

1218
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:34,760
the drink off of the string and then carry it with them as though it was just happening

1219
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:35,760
in real life.

1220
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:38,200
The octopus had just given her a cocktail.

1221
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:39,200
It's crazy.

1222
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:45,720
It's so good that these puppeteers need their own Academy Award as well, because it's just

1223
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:46,720
perfect.

1224
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:47,720
It's absolutely perfect.

1225
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:48,720
So wonderful.

1226
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,400
Just so much work and which is like a good thing.

1227
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:58,280
And you know, Patrick and other creators listening to this, it's just you just have so much respect

1228
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:01,360
and Roger Rabbit is a is a well made movie.

1229
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:04,560
But quote unquote poorly made movies.

1230
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:11,080
It still takes a level of commitment and focus and resources and everything.

1231
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:12,080
So much has to go right.

1232
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:16,000
And when I just go right and with Roger Rabbit, it does.

1233
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:18,840
And it makes you appreciate what is possible.

1234
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:19,840
Yes.

1235
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:20,840
Movie making.

1236
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,720
Well, and this is what I love about Disney so much, too.

1237
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,260
And I think this is just a through line in the history of Disney movies.

1238
01:03:26,260 --> 01:03:30,800
And not to say that other studios don't do this as well, but Disney takes such big swings

1239
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:34,840
and they aren't afraid to learn as they go on, especially like on a movie like this.

1240
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:35,920
They were making stuff up.

1241
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:36,920
They were there.

1242
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:37,920
I mean, they built robots.

1243
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:43,000
They figured out how to build a robot arm for baby Herman to hold a cigar that they

1244
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:49,040
would then later animate over to figure that they just their team of of Imagineers is so

1245
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:54,720
creative that without them again, I'll be saying this a thousand times without them,

1246
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,960
movies like this don't get made because they're not afraid to learn as they go.

1247
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:01,000
So we don't have to spend time on this tangent.

1248
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:05,360
But this conversation makes me think about previous movies, Disney movies that blended

1249
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:08,360
the live action with animation like Mary Poppins.

1250
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:09,360
Sure.

1251
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:12,400
Dead Knobs and Broomsticks is a personal favorite of mine.

1252
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:13,400
Yeah.

1253
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:17,560
So tell me like, well, I mean, you can if you're familiar with those films.

1254
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:18,560
Yeah.

1255
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:24,360
You can see that Roger Rabbit is on a different level than Mary Poppins.

1256
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:25,360
Yeah.

1257
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:26,360
Do you agree with that?

1258
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:27,360
A hundred percent.

1259
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:34,560
I mean, beyond like Mary Poppins, you know, walked so Roger Rabbit could fly a jet.

1260
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:40,720
Basically, you know, the comparison is is you can't you can't compare them really, because

1261
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:44,560
well, again, they broke all the rules, like I said, right, with Roger Rabbit and how they

1262
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:45,700
did this.

1263
01:04:45,700 --> 01:04:49,120
So if you watch Mary Poppins, yes, they have animated characters, but they're all really

1264
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:50,120
still shots.

1265
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:51,120
They're not.

1266
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:52,120
It's on a moving camera.

1267
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:58,680
And the animated characters are not interacting with live props or touching people really.

1268
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:04,440
So that's part of the magic of Roger Rabbit in that this was the first time really you

1269
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:12,040
see an animated character holding an actual cigar or a glass of beer or whatever it is

1270
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:14,120
and having it float through the air.

1271
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:16,000
Even in Bed, Doms and Ribs six, they did a little bit.

1272
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:20,560
They pushed it a little bit further, but it's mostly the animated characters are just overlaid

1273
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:21,880
over a still shot.

1274
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:24,160
And so it's hard to do.

1275
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:27,720
But it's what they did with Roger Rabbit was astronomically hard.

1276
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:28,720
Totally.

1277
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:29,720
Yeah.

1278
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:31,920
And it's readily obvious.

1279
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:37,800
And and let me just bring up the fact that you say Disney takes such big swings.

1280
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:41,840
This movie does is not a few ways we can go with this.

1281
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:46,400
I was going to say this movie I would not call child friendly.

1282
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:47,480
Sure.

1283
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:51,360
Not rated R. I would rate this movie PG 13 for sure.

1284
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:52,360
Yeah.

1285
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:56,920
But you have you have characters drinking beer, babies smoking.

1286
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:57,920
Yeah.

1287
01:05:57,920 --> 01:05:59,840
One of the doorman.

1288
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:02,320
He's a big gorilla animated gorilla.

1289
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:09,200
And he says to Eddie Valiant, what is some sort of smart ass?

1290
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:14,400
And Disney had reservations with swearing in a Disney movie.

1291
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:15,400
Yeah.

1292
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:16,400
But they left it in.

1293
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:20,200
And you're like, that is such a product of the 80s.

1294
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:21,920
Yeah, it is.

1295
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:25,600
Well, I mean, even the animation of Jessica Rabbit is not for kids.

1296
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:26,600
Oh, my God.

1297
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:27,600
Yeah.

1298
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:29,520
It's it's pretty it's risque.

1299
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:37,920
I mean, it's it's it's it's like old timey, you know, adult film.

1300
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:42,960
So one of my favorite jokes in Roger Rabbit, it's a visual gag.

1301
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:43,960
Yeah.

1302
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:50,720
Eddie Valiant is alone in his office with Jessica and some he he bends down to pick

1303
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:52,240
something up off the floor.

1304
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:59,960
And when he when he's when he stands back up, his head hits Jessica Rabbit's breasts.

1305
01:06:59,960 --> 01:07:00,960
Sure.

1306
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:02,560
Yes, because they're so large.

1307
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:03,560
Yes.

1308
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:04,560
Yep.

1309
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:05,560
They're there.

1310
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:06,560
Yep.

1311
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:07,560
They're everywhere.

1312
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:13,800
So, you know, you just have some good old fashioned boob jokes.

1313
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:14,800
You sure do.

1314
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:15,800
I sure do.

1315
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:19,160
You know, wouldn't be made certainly not in a Disney movie today.

1316
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:20,720
Yeah, not on this.

1317
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:21,720
Not.

1318
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:22,720
Yeah.

1319
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:23,720
Maybe a touch.

1320
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:24,720
Well, it was touched on.

1321
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:25,720
But I mean, Disney had their name right.

1322
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:26,720
Yeah.

1323
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:27,720
All over.

1324
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,160
And they had Disney like to have Mickey Mouse in a movie like this.

1325
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:31,480
You're not going to see that again.

1326
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:32,480
Right.

1327
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:34,360
I think it makes Mickey cool.

1328
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:37,040
I'm like, I mean, sure.

1329
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:38,480
More so Looney Tunes for sure.

1330
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:39,480
They'll do anything with Looney Tunes.

1331
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:40,480
They don't.

1332
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:41,480
I mean, which is great.

1333
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:45,320
But Mickey Mouse will never ever ever again be in a movie where people are smoking and

1334
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:46,320
drinking beer.

1335
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:48,240
It's not going to happen anymore.

1336
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:49,520
I don't know who said it.

1337
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:53,080
One of the folks on the commentary.

1338
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:57,680
But you know, they had to suss out like what would what's what's Mickey Mouse going to

1339
01:07:57,680 --> 01:07:58,680
do?

1340
01:07:58,680 --> 01:07:59,680
What and what's Bugs Bunny going to do?

1341
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:02,240
Because they're in that scene where they're free falling with Eddie Valiant.

1342
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:03,240
Sure.

1343
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:08,760
There's supposed to be some hijinks involved, but someone made the determination that, look,

1344
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:14,840
Mickey Mouse doesn't play cruel jokes, but Bugs Bunny does.

1345
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:17,640
Exactly.

1346
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:19,720
Yeah.

1347
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:24,320
And even that like Mickey Mouse was sort of OK with Bugs Bunny basically trying to murder

1348
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:25,320
Eddie Valiant.

1349
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:31,040
Mickey Mouse like, what are you going to do?

1350
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:32,040
It's crazy.

1351
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:33,040
It's crazy.

1352
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:35,360
And that's why this movie is so special for so many reasons.

1353
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:38,780
And that being one of them is that, you know, you're not going to see this again.

1354
01:08:38,780 --> 01:08:40,920
This is never going to happen again.

1355
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:43,000
Not on this level.

1356
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:44,560
Not on this level for sure.

1357
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:45,560
Oh, man.

1358
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:48,920
OK, so let's get into a little bit moving on.

1359
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:51,340
So we talked about the filming a little bit.

1360
01:08:51,340 --> 01:08:55,320
But where this movie really shines, right, is in the post-production in the animation

1361
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:56,320
of the movie.

1362
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,840
Yeah, basically the longest process in this movie.

1363
01:08:58,840 --> 01:08:59,840
It took three months.

1364
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:00,840
Yeah.

1365
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:01,840
I mean, yeah.

1366
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:03,320
It took three years.

1367
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:06,120
Oh, I was like, wait, is 14 months for you?

1368
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:07,400
I mean, I'm sure it did.

1369
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:08,400
Maybe longer than that.

1370
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,600
Just maybe just the initial animation and maybe is where I got that 14 months.

1371
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:18,560
But suffice to say, the biggest section of this film is, as we said before, almost every

1372
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:20,120
scene has an element of animation.

1373
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:21,120
And what did you mention?

1374
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:24,240
There's 48 minutes total of animation time.

1375
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:25,240
Yeah.

1376
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:29,440
Well, 54 total, 48 that ended up in the film.

1377
01:09:29,440 --> 01:09:38,280
And I don't have again, I'm just recalling the commentary, but they pulled in literally,

1378
01:09:38,280 --> 01:09:43,460
as they said, like every animator, seeming everybody world, they couldn't get enough

1379
01:09:43,460 --> 01:09:45,480
animators to work on this thing.

1380
01:09:45,480 --> 01:09:46,480
Yeah, yeah.

1381
01:09:46,480 --> 01:09:48,000
I can't remember who it was.

1382
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:52,080
Somebody would put like walk down the halls and just say, draw faster, basically while

1383
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:53,800
they're doing it.

1384
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:57,360
Because I mean, you had to animate every time there's an animated character, you have to

1385
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:04,000
take out that slice of the film of live action, animate on top of that, and then take the

1386
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,800
next scene and animate on top of that and then make a composite of both.

1387
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:09,920
The ink and paint department has to get involved.

1388
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:14,460
And then they send all of that to ILM because they wanted these characters to look more

1389
01:10:14,460 --> 01:10:19,840
lifelike at the time than actual animated characters were looking currently because

1390
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:24,840
they're playing against live sets and live action props and people.

1391
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:31,680
And so they sent it to ILM who discovered this technique of layering lighting in with

1392
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:33,800
the characters to give them more depth.

1393
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:37,040
Basically, I think they called it two and a half D for the characters.

1394
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:40,400
So you don't need three glasses to watch it, but they still look that they're popping out

1395
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:42,320
of the screen a little bit.

1396
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:47,560
So they would use shadows, highlights, and then tone mats and layer them in with the

1397
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:54,280
characters, which make them look like they are rounded characters and have depth in them.

1398
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:55,280
It's wild.

1399
01:10:55,280 --> 01:11:00,200
And then as we said before, because Zemeckis decided to use moving camera shots, they needed

1400
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:02,560
to make sure that all of the characters were level all the time.

1401
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:06,920
They weren't just like bouncing all over the screen with a camera that's not necessarily

1402
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:07,920
a steady shot.

1403
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:10,080
It's moving around as a person would as well.

1404
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:12,360
And so the character has to move around.

1405
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:16,640
When you think of some of these amazing scenes where Roger Abbott's walking down an alley,

1406
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,040
his shadow is bouncing all over the place as well.

1407
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:23,480
They had to animate his shadow to make it look realistic, like he's actually on the

1408
01:11:23,480 --> 01:11:25,040
streets of LA.

1409
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:26,120
It's really cool.

1410
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:31,400
And I think my favorite part of this whole animation process is that they decided that

1411
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:36,880
the most difficult thing to animate in this movie, though, was Jessica Rabbit's shimmering

1412
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:40,160
dress in the nightclub scene.

1413
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:47,520
Because they didn't like, how do you make an animated character on a live set shimmer

1414
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:50,000
and have this glittery effect to it?

1415
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:56,640
So they used a sandwich bag, scuffed it up with some steel wool and shot light through

1416
01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:01,240
it onto the animated cell to make it look like it's popping and shimmering out.

1417
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:02,240
Crazy.

1418
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:03,240
Yeah.

1419
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:07,920
That's one reason why this movie would never be made quite the same way is because the

1420
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:11,880
art of 2D animation is not the standard anymore.

1421
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:18,680
If, I mean, was the Princess and the Frog was the last Disney feature to have traditional

1422
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:19,920
hand drawn animation?

1423
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:25,240
Hand drawn animation at that level, I think, as like a full length movie.

1424
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:29,760
I think they did some CGI, but the movie Wish, the newest movie, Wish did use hand drawn

1425
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:31,120
mixed with CGI.

1426
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:32,120
That's right.

1427
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:33,120
Yeah.

1428
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:34,120
Yeah.

1429
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:40,760
So just the amount of care, just like the amount of, again, work and attention, because

1430
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:48,360
I am, I don't, I'm not well versed enough in animation to like speak to the tools and

1431
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:56,840
the processes, but I just know that you have to hand draw everything and then somebody

1432
01:12:56,840 --> 01:13:00,320
else has to hand paint everything.

1433
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:01,480
Every single cell.

1434
01:13:01,480 --> 01:13:09,880
And now because we're talking about analog film, you have to layer those cells on top

1435
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:13,240
of film stock, which is your live action.

1436
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:15,640
And it's just like.

1437
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:16,920
And make a composite of that.

1438
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:21,080
And so then film that film, basically.

1439
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:25,560
I can't imagine how I'm not a details person.

1440
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:30,440
I mean, to know me is to know that I do love process, but that would drive me absolutely

1441
01:13:30,440 --> 01:13:31,440
insane.

1442
01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:35,160
I think that just, I can't, it's not for me at all.

1443
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:37,720
No, farm it out.

1444
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:38,720
That's what I do.

1445
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:39,720
Yeah.

1446
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:40,720
Right.

1447
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:48,680
So Roger Rabbit, maybe the apex of this type of drawn animation.

1448
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:50,000
A hundred percent agree.

1449
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:51,680
A hundred percent agree.

1450
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:57,400
Before we talk about the cast and then get into our villain, our main monster of this

1451
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:04,600
episode in this movie, just a fun little fact about the post-production, a phrase was coined

1452
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,600
during this movie called bumping the lamp.

1453
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:07,600
I don't know.

1454
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:08,600
Did you hear about this?

1455
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:10,120
I don't know if they talked about it in the.

1456
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:11,120
Yeah.

1457
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:12,120
Yeah.

1458
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:13,120
In the dock.

1459
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:18,960
So there's a scene in the movie where Roger and Eddie go into the back room of the bar,

1460
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:22,640
basically of Dolores's bar to try to get the handcuffs off.

1461
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:27,560
And an overhead lamp is bumped and it starts swinging all over the place.

1462
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:29,760
In initial animation, they were like, it's fine.

1463
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:31,440
Well, this is, this is okay.

1464
01:14:31,440 --> 01:14:33,320
And somebody was like, absolutely not.

1465
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:37,420
We are going to add the shadows and the lighting effect of that lamp swinging back and forth.

1466
01:14:37,420 --> 01:14:39,560
So if it comes toward the camera, it's going to get brighter.

1467
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:42,840
If it goes away, we're going to get shadows, so on and so forth.

1468
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:48,280
Something that the everyday audience member is not going to know or care about necessarily.

1469
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:53,800
But because they did that and because it was so painstaking and because it was so beautiful

1470
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:59,960
at the end product of it, they now call bumping the lamp when they want to oomph the animation

1471
01:14:59,960 --> 01:15:05,720
of something in a Disney movie with that audiences may not care about, but Disney cares about

1472
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:06,720
it.

1473
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:08,400
So they did say bump the lamp on this one, which is pretty cool.

1474
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:11,200
I think that's a fun little thing to have in their back pocket.

1475
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:17,840
Because I think whether or not you notice it outright, I think intuitively, subliminally,

1476
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:19,880
like you do notice those things.

1477
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:20,880
Yeah.

1478
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:25,720
You can't put your finger on it, but you're like, wow, that shot looked really good.

1479
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:26,720
Yeah.

1480
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:28,880
It's because they did X, Y, and Z.

1481
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:29,880
Yeah.

1482
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:36,480
And then for a two minute scene that is not necessarily significant in the movie at all,

1483
01:15:36,480 --> 01:15:37,960
but it looks really good.

1484
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:40,480
That's the the shave and a haircut scene.

1485
01:15:40,480 --> 01:15:41,680
Yes.

1486
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:43,120
Which I didn't know.

1487
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:50,160
So Judge Doom is looking for Roger, who is hiding behind the wall of a bar.

1488
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:51,160
Yeah.

1489
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:58,680
And we are told it is revealed in the story that tunes cannot resist the the tune, no

1490
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:05,200
pun intended, that goes that that that that that that I had no idea that had a name.

1491
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:09,000
It's called Shave and a Haircut Two Bits.

1492
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:10,000
Mm hmm.

1493
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:11,000
Yeah.

1494
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:12,720
In that moment, Roger can't resist.

1495
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:13,720
He's doing all he can.

1496
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:16,240
Steam's coming out of his ears.

1497
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:20,960
And Judge Doom goes shave and a haircut.

1498
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:25,960
Then Roger bursts through the wall and sings two bits.

1499
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:27,440
Mm hmm.

1500
01:16:27,440 --> 01:16:28,440
It's so funny.

1501
01:16:28,440 --> 01:16:29,440
You can't resist.

1502
01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:30,440
You can't resist it.

1503
01:16:30,440 --> 01:16:31,440
Can't resist it.

1504
01:16:31,440 --> 01:16:32,440
Oh, I love it.

1505
01:16:32,440 --> 01:16:33,440
Love it.

1506
01:16:33,440 --> 01:16:34,440
OK.

1507
01:16:34,440 --> 01:16:41,760
So the cast, it's I mean, I pulled out some of the main characters of the cast, and we

1508
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,120
don't talk about them at length necessarily.

1509
01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:47,040
We already talked about Bob Hoskins as Eddie Valiant.

1510
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:48,280
What a what a treat.

1511
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:50,880
What an absolute treat in this movie.

1512
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:52,640
I love in that documentary.

1513
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:56,760
He he said that he was so glad he did this movie because it was finally a movie his kids

1514
01:16:56,760 --> 01:17:01,560
could watch, which I love because he was not known for doing a kids movie at all.

1515
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:02,560
Yeah.

1516
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:03,560
So that's kind of cool.

1517
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:08,000
We get Joanna Cassidy as Dolores, who what a perfect casting.

1518
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:13,560
She looks like she was born in the 1940s and behaves like she just fits in so well.

1519
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:14,800
Such a good actor.

1520
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:19,400
We get Charles Fleischer as Roger Rabbit, who also voiced Benny the Cab, who also voiced

1521
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:23,000
Greasy and Psycho, two of the weasels in the movie.

1522
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:26,280
So a lot of heavy lifting on Charles Fleischer's part.

1523
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:27,280
Yeah.

1524
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:28,280
Pretty, pretty wild.

1525
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:33,360
A fun fact about Charles Fleischer is that he and a lot of people gave him some crap

1526
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:36,920
for this, but I would argue that it probably bettered the movie.

1527
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:43,520
He would be on set on days that Eddie Valiant, Bob Hoskins was filming with Roger Rabbit

1528
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:49,820
and he would insist on wearing a Roger Rabbit costume on the side of the set and voicing

1529
01:17:49,820 --> 01:17:54,220
the character for Bob Hoskins to react to.

1530
01:17:54,220 --> 01:17:57,560
So Bob sort of knew what the character was going to look like and he knew what he was

1531
01:17:57,560 --> 01:17:58,560
acting against.

1532
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:02,600
And so they were kind of scene partners, even though he wasn't even on on the set.

1533
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:08,600
And sometimes it sounds like if the audio was good enough, they would use that audio

1534
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:10,880
instead of having him go into the studio to do it.

1535
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:16,000
So I mean, I'm sure it saved them a little bit of time and money, but a problem persisted

1536
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:20,600
where he would sometimes ad lib some some lines for Roger Rabbit.

1537
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:23,580
And so the animators had to go, well, that's not what we animated.

1538
01:18:23,580 --> 01:18:27,480
So we have to do something completely different now because he said a different line in what

1539
01:18:27,480 --> 01:18:29,520
they used for the scene.

1540
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:31,260
So cause some problems.

1541
01:18:31,260 --> 01:18:35,080
But I mean, you know, everything was for the better, I guess.

1542
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:36,080
I did.

1543
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:41,120
I did read that retakes with this film weren't possible because of the nature of their post

1544
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:42,120
production.

1545
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:44,200
All the animation came after.

1546
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:47,240
So they had to work with literally what they had.

1547
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:48,240
Yep.

1548
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:49,240
What the studio gave them.

1549
01:18:49,240 --> 01:18:52,560
They were like, OK, here's what we got.

1550
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:54,040
No backseats on this one.

1551
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:55,040
Pretty crazy.

1552
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:56,040
Boy.

1553
01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:57,040
Pretty, pretty crazy.

1554
01:18:57,040 --> 01:19:03,040
OK, so moving on, we have then Stubby Kay, an old vaudeville actor playing Marvin Acme,

1555
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:07,120
Kathleen Turner as Jessica Rabbit, who to this day is still uncredited as the role of

1556
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:09,120
Jessica Rabbit.

1557
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:11,280
But iconic, iconic character.

1558
01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:15,240
And then we have Christopher Lloyd as Judge Doom.

1559
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:17,120
Don't don't.

1560
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:18,200
Boy, boy.

1561
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:22,320
Christopher Lloyd from Robert Zemeckis is back to the future.

1562
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:23,320
Yeah.

1563
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:29,200
Zemeckis Zemeckis Brown, obviously, he brings such menace to this role.

1564
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:31,440
And I read that he did not.

1565
01:19:31,440 --> 01:19:35,680
It was a choice to not blink as a character.

1566
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:36,920
I didn't notice that in.

1567
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:42,960
But this is a maybe an example of bumping the light where nobody would notice or care

1568
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:44,600
if he blinked.

1569
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:46,840
But he's as an actor said, no, the choice is made.

1570
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:48,960
I'm not going to blink.

1571
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:49,960
Toons wouldn't blink.

1572
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:54,800
Because that's the big reveal that Judge Doom is actually a tune.

1573
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:55,880
Yeah.

1574
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:59,720
But in hindsight, it adds a lot to the character.

1575
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:00,720
100 percent.

1576
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:06,800
Yeah, it definitely makes him a lot creepier than was necessary maybe for this role.

1577
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:09,760
OK, so I mean, this is your real house.

1578
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:15,380
How does how does Judge Doom stack up for you on a villain and or a monster character

1579
01:20:15,380 --> 01:20:16,880
for a movie?

1580
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:24,680
Well, Judge Doom as a monster, quote unquote, is so villainous.

1581
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:27,600
So again, full menace.

1582
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:32,120
And he he cuts such a imposing figure to.

1583
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:33,120
Yeah.

1584
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:34,880
All he's beady eyed.

1585
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:35,880
He's like a vulture.

1586
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:38,760
And they intentionally animated him.

1587
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:39,760
They didn't animate him.

1588
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:43,040
But the makeup I think they did in law.

1589
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:45,420
Did they elongate his nose with makeup?

1590
01:20:45,420 --> 01:20:49,960
Or if they didn't, that was that was a an idea at one point.

1591
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:50,960
I can't remember now.

1592
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:52,640
I'd have to go back and really look at it.

1593
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:56,320
But I mean, they do eventually animate features of him at the end of the movie, obviously.

1594
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:57,320
But yeah.

1595
01:20:57,320 --> 01:20:58,320
Right.

1596
01:20:58,320 --> 01:21:03,200
And then at the end, when he turns, he reveals his tune self.

1597
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:07,320
He has these blazing red eyes, just hellfire.

1598
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:08,320
Yeah.

1599
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:10,320
It's so good.

1600
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:11,680
It's it's wonderful.

1601
01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:12,680
It's wonderful.

1602
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:17,680
I think I feel like they shot him at an angle that made him look more tall.

1603
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:20,840
Or I mean, he Christopher was already kind of a tall person, but to make him look more

1604
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:25,800
menacing that he would be like sort of looming over everybody at all times, which is really

1605
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:26,800
cool.

1606
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:29,680
So so Judge Doom is clearly a villainous monster.

1607
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:34,660
And I'd like to talk about what were the creators doing with this character?

1608
01:21:34,660 --> 01:21:39,980
Is he a sympathetic monster or is he all evil?

1609
01:21:39,980 --> 01:21:48,120
But I think in general, the the tunes of this world like me, I mean, they they are strange

1610
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:50,240
beasts in this world for sure.

1611
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:56,040
I mean, I'm not going to call them monsters per se, but they they are not human.

1612
01:21:56,040 --> 01:22:04,840
And I think one layer to who framed Roger Rabbit is how human beings and tunes coexist.

1613
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:06,080
Yeah.

1614
01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:16,100
And there's a clear hierarchy and it's not a reach to to read into a segregation going

1615
01:22:16,100 --> 01:22:24,020
on here that mirrors real world social politics, especially in the 1940s.

1616
01:22:24,020 --> 01:22:29,240
So that's one of the most fascinating parts about this movie as well.

1617
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:34,640
Yeah, it's an interesting I feel like we could peel that onion for a long time and we certainly

1618
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:36,600
don't have the time to really get into all of that.

1619
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:41,960
But yeah, there is an interesting parallel of segregation a little bit that the tunes

1620
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:46,240
are sort of othered from the humans that they are treated as.

1621
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:51,040
They're just the entertainment there and and or nightclub workers, but they can't actually

1622
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:53,840
go to the clubs that they work at basically.

1623
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:55,440
And so there's definitely a parallel there.

1624
01:22:55,440 --> 01:22:57,400
And they have their own section of town.

1625
01:22:57,400 --> 01:23:00,880
Yeah, their own exactly their own ghetto, if you will.

1626
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:01,880
Yeah.

1627
01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:03,600
Toon town toon town.

1628
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:10,640
Yeah, which when you when the when Eddie goes into toon town, he's just surrounded by chaos

1629
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:17,680
because yeah, what would a city look like completely run by loony characters?

1630
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:21,160
It's just a madhouse.

1631
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:25,640
Yeah, but they are still separate from the rest of L.A.

1632
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:27,480
Yeah, very much that.

1633
01:23:27,480 --> 01:23:32,680
And then when you learn that Judge Doom, who has been erasing tunes this entire time during

1634
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:34,880
the movie, is also a tune.

1635
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:40,120
It adds this whole layer of like, oh, man, this is this is the stuff of nightmares here.

1636
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:47,560
Here's a guy who's basically fully getting rid of major characters in in animation history.

1637
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:52,900
Basically is his goal where he actually is a tune himself.

1638
01:23:52,900 --> 01:23:57,020
But he has to disguise himself as a human for anyone to take him seriously or give him

1639
01:23:57,020 --> 01:24:04,720
any power in the world, because he actually is sort of the the judge of the entire city

1640
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:06,840
of L.A. and town basically.

1641
01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:12,480
So it's a it's a it's a big package to unravel this.

1642
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:15,080
And the book goes into it a little bit, too.

1643
01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:16,080
Yeah.

1644
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:23,840
With they're called humanoid tunes like Jessica Rabbit, and they are able to quote ass as

1645
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:30,320
humans, which when you apply it to, you know, race and absolutely.

1646
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:34,680
And other minorities and, you know, who are you in a certain given situation?

1647
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:36,440
You know, code switching, if you will.

1648
01:24:36,440 --> 01:24:37,440
Yeah.

1649
01:24:37,440 --> 01:24:39,920
And you just think like in the book is Jessica Rabbit.

1650
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:42,160
What does she have to do to be successful in the movie?

1651
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:43,920
It's Judge Doom.

1652
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:50,280
Like he maybe that's when where he can be a little sympathetic because as as evil as

1653
01:24:50,280 --> 01:24:59,640
he is, what has what in his life in society systemically has caused him to make these

1654
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:00,640
choices.

1655
01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:01,640
Interesting.

1656
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:02,640
Interesting.

1657
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:04,320
Like you're getting to the psyche of Judge Doom.

1658
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:05,320
I like this.

1659
01:25:05,320 --> 01:25:06,920
But but he's also wrong, though.

1660
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:08,640
But he's also a monster.

1661
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:09,640
Yeah.

1662
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:14,560
In your notes, Patrick, you mentioned something about, you know, Nazi allegories.

1663
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:15,840
Yeah.

1664
01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:22,680
And it's just, you know, he's turning on his own people, you know, the tunes liquidating

1665
01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:23,680
them.

1666
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:26,680
You know, very I think it is.

1667
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:35,040
But I I read I think you could read Nazi impressions there, especially in Dune's wardrobe.

1668
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:36,740
He wears all black.

1669
01:25:36,740 --> 01:25:40,760
It's very in a trench coat, very SS Gestapo.

1670
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:41,760
Yeah.

1671
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:46,160
And I don't yeah, I don't I don't know that we can necessarily like make a comparison

1672
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:48,600
of the tunes and what happened in Nazi Germany.

1673
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:51,960
But there's definitely an influence happening there with specifically this character of

1674
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:53,000
Judge Doom.

1675
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:58,160
In fact, so much that like dip, which is what the like turpentine basically gets rid of

1676
01:25:58,160 --> 01:26:02,200
animation was originally going to be called the final solution, which is pretty dark.

1677
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:03,800
Very, very dark.

1678
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:04,800
Yeah.

1679
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:06,940
I will feel gross saying that out loud.

1680
01:26:06,940 --> 01:26:08,320
But I mean, it's just it's out there.

1681
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:09,320
That's what they were.

1682
01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:10,320
That'd be yeah.

1683
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:13,280
That would be a bit much, a bit much, a bit much.

1684
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:19,360
But there are definitely influences of sort of the Gestapo within Judge Doom himself,

1685
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:25,200
which is a pretty wild, a pretty bold swing for a movie like Who Framed Roger Rabbit to

1686
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:28,400
have something that dark and insidious inside of it.

1687
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:31,240
It's a good word insidious.

1688
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:32,240
Thank you.

1689
01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:33,240
Thank you so much.

1690
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:34,240
Yes.

1691
01:26:34,240 --> 01:26:35,240
Sometimes sometimes.

1692
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:43,120
So I guess my question to you, then, is like overall, like is this is this a monster in

1693
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:48,840
our how does this compare to other monsters in other monster movies for this character?

1694
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:52,240
Obviously not all monsters are villains and not all villains are monsters.

1695
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:57,640
But here we have a villain who is monstrous at the very least.

1696
01:26:57,640 --> 01:26:59,280
Yeah.

1697
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:03,680
I mean, I think I think Judge Doom is memorable for a reason.

1698
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:11,880
I think Judge Doom, certainly in the Disney Rogues Gallery, is among I mean, I put him

1699
01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:14,240
up with Ursula from The Little Mermaid.

1700
01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:17,520
Just this wild devilish character.

1701
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:18,720
Yeah.

1702
01:27:18,720 --> 01:27:21,120
It's interesting, though, like Roger Rabbit.

1703
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:26,800
I totally obviously am including it under the Camp Kaiju umbrella.

1704
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:27,800
Yeah.

1705
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:34,320
I will admit, though, and definitions of what Kaiju mean and what strange beasts mean, I

1706
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:37,240
clearly take a lot of liberties with that definition.

1707
01:27:37,240 --> 01:27:38,240
Sure.

1708
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:46,080
And in the rules I have made for myself, there's a difference between a monster movie and monsters

1709
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:48,400
in a fantasy movie.

1710
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:53,480
Roger Rabbit does strike me as a bit more of a fantasy movie, maybe along the lines

1711
01:27:53,480 --> 01:27:58,800
of other fantasy movies, right, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, like there are monsters

1712
01:27:58,800 --> 01:27:59,880
in those movies.

1713
01:27:59,880 --> 01:28:05,200
I'm not going to talk about those on Camp Kaiju because those monsters are more accepted

1714
01:28:05,200 --> 01:28:07,520
in the worlds in which they take place.

1715
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:08,520
Interesting.

1716
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:09,520
OK, got you.

1717
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:13,160
So are the tunes in this movie.

1718
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:15,600
It's just like tunes aren't strange.

1719
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:16,600
They just right there.

1720
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:17,600
They are what they are.

1721
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:18,600
They're quite judge.

1722
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:20,960
Doom takes it to another level.

1723
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:23,160
He is a strange tune.

1724
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:25,320
He breaks the mold.

1725
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:28,600
He is a human until he's not.

1726
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:29,600
Yeah.

1727
01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:32,600
And that that is pretty out there.

1728
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:36,600
And I would I would call him a legitimate monster, if you will.

1729
01:28:36,600 --> 01:28:41,640
I like that he's sort of otherworldly in both worlds of humans and tunes.

1730
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:42,640
Exactly.

1731
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:43,640
Interesting.

1732
01:28:43,640 --> 01:28:44,640
I like that.

1733
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:45,640
I like that.

1734
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:46,640
And he's on many lists.

1735
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:49,840
I know that, again, villains aren't monsters and monsters aren't villains, but they do

1736
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:55,040
sometimes slam into each other on many lists of one of the scariest characters in cinematic

1737
01:28:55,040 --> 01:28:56,040
history.

1738
01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:58,280
Not just, you know, not just for a Disney movie.

1739
01:28:58,280 --> 01:29:01,360
Like he's a scary, a scary mama jamma.

1740
01:29:01,360 --> 01:29:08,920
You know, I'm I hadn't seen this movie for over 20 years and I still recalled the image

1741
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:10,720
of him with eyes.

1742
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:11,720
Oh, my God.

1743
01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:18,400
And when he gets run over by the steamroller and then inflates himself again and it's crazy.

1744
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:19,520
It's horrifying.

1745
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:22,320
It's something that a seven year old shouldn't be looking at.

1746
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:26,040
He's being crushed so realistically.

1747
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:27,040
Yeah.

1748
01:29:27,040 --> 01:29:30,360
The bones are crunching and he's screaming.

1749
01:29:30,360 --> 01:29:31,360
Yeah.

1750
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:36,080
And when he this is when he animates himself, he like picks himself up off the floor.

1751
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:39,720
He suddenly becomes a 2D character.

1752
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:41,120
It is nightmare fuel.

1753
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:42,120
Yeah.

1754
01:29:42,120 --> 01:29:43,120
His eyeballs pop out.

1755
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:45,040
It's crazy.

1756
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:46,040
It's not good.

1757
01:29:46,040 --> 01:29:47,040
It's.

1758
01:29:47,040 --> 01:29:48,040
But it's wonderful, though.

1759
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:49,960
It's also wonderful.

1760
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:50,960
Amazing.

1761
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:52,480
All right.

1762
01:29:52,480 --> 01:29:55,840
So clearly we're big fans of this movie.

1763
01:29:55,840 --> 01:30:00,320
Like we are going on and on and on longer than we probably should for our listeners

1764
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:02,240
have stopped listening to us by now.

1765
01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:05,400
But we're not alone in loving this movie.

1766
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:08,520
As we said, it was released on June 22nd, 1988.

1767
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:11,680
It grossed eleven million dollars in its opening weekend.

1768
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:13,920
It was first place in the box office.

1769
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:18,480
And at the time, as I think we said earlier on, it was Disney's biggest opening weekend

1770
01:30:18,480 --> 01:30:21,160
ever in history of Disney.

1771
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:22,160
Biggest opening weekend.

1772
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:28,120
It would eventually go on to gross three hundred and fifty one million worldwide, which made

1773
01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:31,520
it at the time the 20th highest grossing film of all time.

1774
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:33,480
I mean, I mean, these are amazing numbers.

1775
01:30:33,480 --> 01:30:38,840
So it's nice to say they gambled and it paid off for them because it brought in so much

1776
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:42,100
revenue, so much fandom of Disney.

1777
01:30:42,100 --> 01:30:46,760
People who weren't fans of Disney were watching this movie and brought them into the Disney

1778
01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:48,680
fold, which is which is pretty great.

1779
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:52,920
It then went on to win Academy Awards for best film editing, best sound effects, editing

1780
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:57,560
best visual effects, editing, and then a special achievement award for Richard Williams, the

1781
01:30:57,560 --> 01:30:59,200
animation director.

1782
01:30:59,200 --> 01:31:02,080
So success, major success.

1783
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:04,400
Who framed Roger Rabbit, I would say.

1784
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:06,440
Yeah, 100 percent.

1785
01:31:06,440 --> 01:31:12,360
The fact that it's never been remade, that it doesn't have a sequel, that nothing again

1786
01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:18,400
like what has come since Space Jam, Looney Tunes back in action.

1787
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:19,400
Yeah.

1788
01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:21,240
And what was the one you had mentioned?

1789
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:22,240
You cool world.

1790
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:23,240
Cool world.

1791
01:31:23,240 --> 01:31:24,240
Yeah.

1792
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:28,040
And you would know that existed.

1793
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:34,120
Look it up, give it a watch, maybe enjoy a gummy of some kind.

1794
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:35,840
Your choice on that one.

1795
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:37,040
And look at it.

1796
01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:38,040
It's not a great movie.

1797
01:31:38,040 --> 01:31:39,040
It's not.

1798
01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:40,040
None of those movies are great.

1799
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:41,040
Objective.

1800
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:42,040
100 percent.

1801
01:31:42,040 --> 01:31:46,240
No, and didn't do what who framed Roger Rabbit did.

1802
01:31:46,240 --> 01:31:51,760
And again, we're not saying that who framed Roger Rabbit was the first one to do to mix

1803
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:52,760
animation and live action.

1804
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:57,800
There were many, many before it, like you said, Mary Poppins, Bedknobs and Broomsticks,

1805
01:31:57,800 --> 01:31:59,520
Anchors Away.

1806
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:02,160
But they changed the game for how this worked.

1807
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:03,160
Yeah, absolutely.

1808
01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:04,160
Absolutely.

1809
01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:05,160
All right.

1810
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:08,600
So I mean, any final thoughts on who framed Roger Rabbit?

1811
01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:12,840
Do you feel like, well, now that we have a podcast that's Disney and monsters, like does

1812
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:17,400
this fit into one category better than the other or is it a nice mix or what do you think?

1813
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:22,040
I think this one's a nice mix, actually, because I would say it's a Disney, more of a Disney

1814
01:32:22,040 --> 01:32:24,480
movie than a monster movie.

1815
01:32:24,480 --> 01:32:26,600
But this doesn't even feel like a Disney movie.

1816
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:27,600
Yeah, I know.

1817
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:28,600
It does it.

1818
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:29,600
Yeah.

1819
01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:32,840
It just it feels like its own beautiful little unicorn of a film.

1820
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:33,840
Yeah.

1821
01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:38,880
And what I you know, what we ask on Camp Kaiju is does this stand the test of time?

1822
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:44,880
So for for Gaze to the D listeners, for you all, you for all you tweedles out there, you're

1823
01:32:44,880 --> 01:32:48,120
going to get you're going to get the Camp Kaiju treatment here.

1824
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:49,120
I love it.

1825
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:50,120
I love it.

1826
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:54,800
On each episode, we don't give us rating at, you know, X, you know, five stars out of 10

1827
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:55,800
or whatever.

1828
01:32:55,800 --> 01:32:59,300
No, we'd like to just ask, does it stand the test of time?

1829
01:32:59,300 --> 01:33:03,400
Is it worth watching in your spare time?

1830
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:06,520
And we have four different ratings here.

1831
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:11,120
So our lowest rating is it's not worth revisiting.

1832
01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:15,040
It definitely does not stand the test of time.

1833
01:33:15,040 --> 01:33:20,580
Moving on, we have it may be historically significant or just fun, but it doesn't stand

1834
01:33:20,580 --> 01:33:22,780
the test of time.

1835
01:33:22,780 --> 01:33:27,260
We have there may be some antiquated moments, but overall, it's great.

1836
01:33:27,260 --> 01:33:29,920
And it does stand the test of time.

1837
01:33:29,920 --> 01:33:33,800
And finally, we have it is a timeless classic.

1838
01:33:33,800 --> 01:33:34,800
Nothing wrong with it.

1839
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:36,080
It stands the test of time.

1840
01:33:36,080 --> 01:33:37,080
Yeah.

1841
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:39,080
How do you feel about it?

1842
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:41,720
100% stands the test of time.

1843
01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:44,600
And I think will stand the test of time for years to come.

1844
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:49,040
I mean, I have to believe that there are people out there making movies today who go back

1845
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:52,800
to who frame Roger Rabbit as a reference of of what to do.

1846
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:53,800
Do you know?

1847
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:54,800
Yeah, I think so.

1848
01:33:54,800 --> 01:34:01,400
I mean, story wise, character wise, script wise, cast production, everything involved,

1849
01:34:01,400 --> 01:34:03,480
I think top notch.

1850
01:34:03,480 --> 01:34:08,440
Still I watched this movie, revisited again this morning, in fact, just in preparation.

1851
01:34:08,440 --> 01:34:10,240
And it's just it blows you away.

1852
01:34:10,240 --> 01:34:11,240
It's so good.

1853
01:34:11,240 --> 01:34:12,800
And it's so visually appealing.

1854
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:16,040
And I still have questions about how they did some stuff in the right.

1855
01:34:16,040 --> 01:34:17,760
So yeah, I agree.

1856
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:18,980
It's a timeless classic.

1857
01:34:18,980 --> 01:34:21,080
It stands the test of time.

1858
01:34:21,080 --> 01:34:23,540
The animation is exquisite.

1859
01:34:23,540 --> 01:34:26,760
The performances, everyone buys into it.

1860
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:32,240
And Robert Zemeckis does some really nice work as a director on this film.

1861
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:35,360
There's one shot which I loved in the moment.

1862
01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:38,480
Then it reading in hindsight, I was like, yeah, I appreciate that.

1863
01:34:38,480 --> 01:34:47,920
There's like a tracking shot of Eddie Valiant in his office and the camera moves over miscellaneous

1864
01:34:47,920 --> 01:34:51,120
objects on Eddie's desk.

1865
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:58,760
And this is when we get like through the visual medium of film, we understand Eddie's backstory.

1866
01:34:58,760 --> 01:35:04,400
There's newspaper clippings about how his brother, who was his partner detective, was

1867
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:07,040
killed by a tune.

1868
01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:11,980
So this is a hang up Eddie's working through over the course of the movie, why he doesn't

1869
01:35:11,980 --> 01:35:15,580
trust tunes, why he doesn't trust Roger Rabbit.

1870
01:35:15,580 --> 01:35:20,040
And it's just like touches like that, that Zemeckis brings to the film.

1871
01:35:20,040 --> 01:35:22,100
Yeah, I love that.

1872
01:35:22,100 --> 01:35:27,720
It offers something for if you love film, like the history of film, filmmaking, film

1873
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:32,760
studies, this movie offers you so much to chew on.

1874
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:33,760
Definitely.

1875
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:34,760
Well said, well said.

1876
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:35,760
Yeah.

1877
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:39,600
Just to recap, one little thing that you said in there, I love that they pulled that out,

1878
01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:44,200
that Zemeckis' direction, he has these high, high highs, and then he quiets the film down

1879
01:35:44,200 --> 01:35:47,940
ever so slightly every once in a while, even if it's a cartoon character doing something

1880
01:35:47,940 --> 01:35:53,960
really subtle and quiet and lovely, it's the stillness that then allows you to go to Toontown

1881
01:35:53,960 --> 01:35:54,960
basically.

1882
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:55,960
Right, right.

1883
01:35:55,960 --> 01:36:02,320
You know, this movie, and I hadn't seen the latest Space Jam with LeBron James, but a

1884
01:36:02,320 --> 01:36:08,600
critique I was reading was that it was so high octane the whole time.

1885
01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:10,800
It starts and ends at 100.

1886
01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:11,800
It just keeps going.

1887
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:20,880
Yeah, and it just, people were just turned off by the excessive noise of the movie.

1888
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:22,080
But Roger Rabbit doesn't do that.

1889
01:36:22,080 --> 01:36:23,200
Zemeckis doesn't do that.

1890
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:25,080
He knows how to play with levels.

1891
01:36:25,080 --> 01:36:26,080
Yeah.

1892
01:36:26,080 --> 01:36:28,600
And he allows you to breathe, and it's really nice.

1893
01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:29,600
It is.

1894
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:30,600
It's great.

1895
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:31,600
It's great.

1896
01:36:31,600 --> 01:36:32,600
All right, well, we have a winner.

1897
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:36,440
I love that we did this for our first episode, a movie that we both really appreciate for

1898
01:36:36,440 --> 01:36:38,400
many different reasons.

1899
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:42,080
And I hope that our listeners appreciate as well.

1900
01:36:42,080 --> 01:36:44,480
But if not, that's fine too.

1901
01:36:44,480 --> 01:36:45,480
But let us know.

1902
01:36:45,480 --> 01:36:46,560
Let us know your thoughts on this movie.

1903
01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:47,560
Did you love it?

1904
01:36:47,560 --> 01:36:48,560
What were your thoughts on it?

1905
01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:50,080
What's your history with it?

1906
01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:54,840
Does it stand the test of time for you as well to take a page out of Camp Kaiju's book?

1907
01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:55,840
How can they get a hold?

1908
01:36:55,840 --> 01:37:00,160
If they want to reach out to your podcast to give some feedback, how do they do that,

1909
01:37:00,160 --> 01:37:01,160
Vincent?

1910
01:37:01,160 --> 01:37:03,680
All right, so I'm going to answer that question, then I'm going to ask you the same thing.

1911
01:37:03,680 --> 01:37:04,680
Great.

1912
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:05,680
Okay.

1913
01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:09,960
So follow Camp Kaiju Monster Movie podcast wherever you podcast.

1914
01:37:09,960 --> 01:37:17,440
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, not X, not TikTok, but pretty much everywhere

1915
01:37:17,440 --> 01:37:18,440
else.

1916
01:37:18,440 --> 01:37:19,440
Go ahead.

1917
01:37:19,440 --> 01:37:20,440
You can just leave us a comment.

1918
01:37:20,440 --> 01:37:21,440
I will find it.

1919
01:37:21,440 --> 01:37:24,400
You can email us campkaiju at gmail.com.

1920
01:37:24,400 --> 01:37:26,220
I'm really good at getting back to you.

1921
01:37:26,220 --> 01:37:34,080
If you don't like anything that me and Patrick are doing here, let us know.

1922
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:35,720
Everything is set in stone.

1923
01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:38,480
And again, I just love talking about movies with anybody.

1924
01:37:38,480 --> 01:37:45,520
So reach out, let us know what you'd like us to cover on magic and monsters.

1925
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:47,760
And stay tuned on Camp Kaiju.

1926
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:53,240
Our next episode will be Godzilla and Kong, the new empire.

1927
01:37:53,240 --> 01:37:55,040
So that'll be two weeks from today.

1928
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:57,460
Patrick, you're on that episode.

1929
01:37:57,460 --> 01:37:59,000
We can't get enough of you.

1930
01:37:59,000 --> 01:38:00,000
I am.

1931
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:01,000
Oh, yeah, I am.

1932
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:02,000
Oh, my God.

1933
01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:03,000
I'm just kidding.

1934
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:08,720
I didn't sign any release forms for that, but I don't know about that.

1935
01:38:08,720 --> 01:38:09,720
OK.

1936
01:38:09,720 --> 01:38:15,280
So what's coming up on Gaze Do The D and where can Camp Kaiju listeners find more information

1937
01:38:15,280 --> 01:38:16,500
about you?

1938
01:38:16,500 --> 01:38:18,220
Great question.

1939
01:38:18,220 --> 01:38:22,940
So all of the same platforms, just look up Gaze Do The D and you will find us on wherever

1940
01:38:22,940 --> 01:38:24,640
you listen to your favorite podcast.

1941
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:34,120
You can find us on Instagram at GDTD podcast, where we are.

1942
01:38:34,120 --> 01:38:38,320
Feel free to comment on anything there and slide into our DMs if you have questions for

1943
01:38:38,320 --> 01:38:43,420
us or you have feedback for this episode on our side of it.

1944
01:38:43,420 --> 01:38:51,160
Or you can find us on email at info at gaze do the D dot com info at gaze the D dot com.

1945
01:38:51,160 --> 01:38:54,600
Send us an email, send us a voice memo, whatever you have for us.

1946
01:38:54,600 --> 01:38:55,600
What's coming up next?

1947
01:38:55,600 --> 01:38:56,600
Who can say?

1948
01:38:56,600 --> 01:38:59,940
Because we don't really know when this episode is going to drop.

1949
01:38:59,940 --> 01:39:01,100
So who's to know?

1950
01:39:01,100 --> 01:39:04,320
Another episode, we come up biweekly, so look for us every other week.

1951
01:39:04,320 --> 01:39:08,160
We usually drop them on Sundays at 6 p.m. every other week.

1952
01:39:08,160 --> 01:39:09,340
All right, cool.

1953
01:39:09,340 --> 01:39:12,520
And then what's up next on Magic and Monsters?

1954
01:39:12,520 --> 01:39:13,520
Who can say?

1955
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:17,000
We don't know, but it will be Halloween themed, I'm sure.

1956
01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:18,520
I can think of a few.

1957
01:39:18,520 --> 01:39:22,280
I mean, Hocus Pocus, Nightmare Before Christmas.

1958
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:24,160
Yeah, there's lots out there.

1959
01:39:24,160 --> 01:39:25,160
Frankenweenie.

1960
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:26,160
I don't know.

1961
01:39:26,160 --> 01:39:27,360
Frankenweenie, even Watcher in the Woods.

1962
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:28,360
Who knows?

1963
01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:29,360
It's a scary movie.

1964
01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:34,080
So we'll put our heads together and we will look out for listener feedback as well.

1965
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:36,840
Yes, please, please let us know.

1966
01:39:36,840 --> 01:39:38,180
Thanks for listening, everybody.

1967
01:39:38,180 --> 01:39:44,840
We really appreciate all of you, the patrons on both sides of our Patreon worlds.

1968
01:39:44,840 --> 01:39:45,840
We love you.

1969
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:46,840
Thank you for supporting us.

1970
01:39:46,840 --> 01:39:48,840
We have a few crossover Patreon members, I believe.

1971
01:39:48,840 --> 01:39:50,400
So that's amazing to know.

1972
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:54,040
And let me just shout out, sorry.

1973
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:59,560
Jason, Chris, Sean, our anonymous patron, and Peggy for your support.

1974
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:08,340
Magic and Monsters is completely 100% because of your support, I have bandwidth to do other

1975
01:40:08,340 --> 01:40:11,280
fun side projects like this with Patrick.

1976
01:40:11,280 --> 01:40:12,280
Yes, yes.

1977
01:40:12,280 --> 01:40:17,240
And same for all of our lovely Patreon members over at Gaze Do The D. We love and support

1978
01:40:17,240 --> 01:40:19,120
you and thank you for supporting us.

1979
01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:20,120
Yeah.

1980
01:40:20,120 --> 01:40:21,120
All right.

1981
01:40:21,120 --> 01:40:22,840
Well, with that, we'll see you next time, everybody.

1982
01:40:22,840 --> 01:40:24,880
I don't know, insert cute tagline here.

1983
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:25,880
We don't really have one yet.

1984
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:26,880
Maybe send us one.

1985
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:27,880
Send us one, listeners.

1986
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:29,880
Just do the work for us.

1987
01:40:29,880 --> 01:40:30,880
Yes, please.

1988
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:31,880
We're tired.

1989
01:40:31,880 --> 01:40:32,880
All right.

1990
01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:33,880
Bye, everybody.

1991
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:58,680
Bye, everybody.