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Hello and welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Podcast. We're your hosts, Vincent Hannum

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and Matt Levine. And we're talking about all our favorite monster movies, The Good, the

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Bad and the Downright Campy and asking if they stand the test of time. Traditional Kaiju creature

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features, space invaders, the supernatural and everything in between. All strange beasts. Welcome

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here. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack powered by Coldwell Banker Realty,

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your source for real estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients

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and residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach Pack today for real estate services.

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Follow the Zach Pack on social media and contact the Zach Pack for investment opportunities.

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Links in the show description.

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It's disgusting the way we treat humans. What the hell did they get like this? What other way would

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they be? If they see you on the street they kill you on sight. You stay here you are dead.

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Where the hell are you from? United States Air Force. I'm going back. Some humans have escaped.

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Is there another way out of the city? I can show you the way. They travel with eggs. Declare martial

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law. We underestimate this human. What the hell are they? Your story is spreading through the villages.

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They all want to see this human who defies the apes. It's over there's no help coming.

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Can't help thinking that somewhere in the universe there has to be something better than man.

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There has to be. The words are Charlton Heston's. Get out of last signal. The word that we've learned

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is. The world he finds out in the galaxy will challenge every idea you've ever had of

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civilization. A planet where man is the lowest order of living things and the superior beings are

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apes. They build the cities, make the laws, the gods, and control the guns that hunt or

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rape the lowly terrified humans who run wild in the jungles, are caged in the prisons and stuffed

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in the museums. 20th century box transforms the motion picture screen into planet of the apes.

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Here bulls finest novel since bridge on the river wire. A world gone insane. An upside down

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civilization and could not be real yesterday. The world of madness and terror. Man has no understanding.

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He can be taught a few simple tricks. Nothing more.

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You did it. You cut up his brain. You bloody babbles.

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It's a man. It's a man.

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Matt, how the hell are you? I'm doing all right. How are you?

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I'm good. So in my office, there's the door, the back door to the outside and I have a back porch.

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We keep the door open. But tonight I keep hearing scratching against the door.

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Now, logically, I know it's probably a squirrel that's just in the porch. Or maybe it's a fiend

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without a face. Yeah. Well, they have like a very distinct squelching noise. So I feel like if it

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was a fiend, you would probably know. That's true. I'm like, like you see this in a horror movie. I'm

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so tempted to just open the door to see what it is. But every horror movie has told me,

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don't open the door. Yeah, don't do it. You got to like nail some boards up against the window.

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That's what you should do. Just be aware of flying brains. That's all I can say.

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Yeah, it's actually a little, a little jarring, but I'll get used to it.

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But wow, weird. I mean, it's either a fiend or like a super intelligent ape, one of the two.

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Or maybe just a regular chimpanzee, Parakles, Mark Wahlberg's friend.

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I'm hoping for that. That seems less menacing. Either way, it's probably not ideal.

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Yeah. Okay, so we got a fun episode tonight, everybody. We're going to talk about Planet

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of the Apes. This was my excuse to talk about the franchise as a whole, but we are going to

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focus on Tim Burton's 2001 reimagining. It's not exactly a remake. It's not exactly a reboot. It's

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kind of somewhere in between, for better or for worse. So I'm interested to talk about it,

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hear your thoughts, Matt, and anyone else who wants to share.

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Yeah, for sure. I have to admit, before watching, well, I had seen the Tim Burton Planet of the

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Apes before, but like this franchise is a huge blind spot for me. I have seen some of the original

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series on TV. I haven't seen any of the original movies in their entirety. And I tried watching

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Rise of the Planet of the Apes from 2011, I think. I'm like 75% of the way through that,

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but I wasn't able to finish it before this recording. So I'm still really like unintelligent

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when it comes to this franchise and maybe just in general, but particularly with this franchise. So

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I apologize for that. No, I think that's going to be a great perspective that you bring, right? So

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we can like, I have a, you know, our is our opinions shaped by our familiarity with the

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franchise as a whole. I don't know. Before we get into that, we'll get into some nuts and bolts.

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Thanks for hanging out, friends. Please rate and review wherever you listen to Camp Kaiju.

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You can send us listener comments at campkaiju.gmail.com, our Facebook, our Instagram,

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YouTube, or if you'd like to be a featured voice on the show, leave a voicemail at 612-470-2612

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telling us about your favorite monster movies and memories. Please check out our website,

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campkaijupodcast.com for more reviews and special content.

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And a big Patreon shout out to Jason, Chris, Sean, our anonymous patron and Peggy.

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All right. I have some things on here. Oh, okay. So for this, this month in Monster Movie History.

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Uh, well, the one that I'll bring up is Chopping Mall, which I watched,

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maybe a couple of years ago. I was certainly intrigued by the title. It's a great title,

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Chopping Mall with a C. Um, and the movie lives up to that title. It's very stupid. Uh, it's very,

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and I mean that in kind of a complimentary way, like it kind of knows it's dumb and it leans into

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that. Um, it's like a late eighties, a lot of very memorable campy lines on that one. So yeah,

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Chopping Mall is great. Highly recommend that. Couldn't agree more. Chopping Mall has my heart.

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It's killer cyborgs. Some teens get, uh, stuck in a shopping mall overnight and the new security

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guards happen to be robots. And of course they short circuit and go on a, on a killing spree.

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So it's, it's pretty great tech horror. For sure. Yeah. And like a distinctly late eighties way,

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there's a lot of like gratuitous sex and nudity with the teenage cast or supposedly teenage. They

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were probably like in their early thirties, but, um, yeah, it's a fun movie. Yep. And it's

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celebrating its 38th anniversary this month. Amazing. Yeah. I wanted to shout out Ed Wood,

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which was released in September 94, another Tim Burton film, arguably one of his best. Um,

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so I think that's just a great movie to shout out for this episode.

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Totally agree. I love that. Would, um, that probably is my favorite Tim Burton movie.

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I don't want to be a hater. I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that Tim Burton is among my favorites,

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but like his early movies are generally pretty great. A lot of fun ones, like distinct style,

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but Ed Wood is probably my favorite. Honestly, up until the two thousands with Planet of the Apes,

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uh, I, I just, I really dig his, his style and his, his know-how of how to, how to shoot one of these

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genre pictures that he knows the notes to play and he has a nice sense of humor, but as we'll get

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into it, Planet of the Apes deviates from what his usual taste was up until that point.

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Yeah, for sure. Um, Sleepy Hollow in the late nineties is certainly one of his last,

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or one of his, you know, it's debatable in my opinion. That's one of his last very strong,

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really great movies. I love Sleepy Hollow. Um, but yeah, well, we'll, we'll get into more,

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more of that later. I did just want to very briefly mention another movie that came out in 1977 in

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September, Eraserhead, which is my favorite David Lynch movie still his first feature and still his

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best. Uh, I love a lot of David Lynch movies, of course, but, uh, one of the best debuts in American

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cinema history, I would say Eraserhead. And see that's a blind spot for me. I got it. It's a

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classic, right? It's a must see. I got to watch it. It is very weird. I mean, of course, if you've

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seen a David Lynch movie, very surreal, very dreamlike, but still very moving. I like a lot of

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themes of just like fatherhood and the anxiety around that, which, you know, perhaps you could

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relate to. Um, okay. Yeah. Eraserhead highly recommended. Awesome. Um, well, some, a couple

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of new and upcoming releases. I just got to say getting into the Halloween season, Salem's Lot

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is being released on Macs. Now, if you're not in the know, uh, Salem's Lot was shot a few years ago.

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It's a new adaptation of the Stephen King novel, but it had been held on ice by one of the

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brothers for years. Um, and there was a lot of worry that Warner Brothers was never going to

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release this movie, um, because they would have saved money as a tax write off had they just kept

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it. Um, even Stephen King was like, where's, where's this movie? Fortunately, uh, for movie

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lovers, it is being released. So I think that's great. Why just like the, the ethics of like

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holding on to a movie for, for financial reasons and not sharing it with the world, like so much

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hard work went into that. Why would you not share it? Yeah, absolutely. And even if like you, you

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know, if the studio is worried, it's going to lose money or maybe get negative reviews or whatever.

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Like, like who cares? Some people are going to love it. Like everybody has different opinions,

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just like let it out into the world and see what happens, you know? Yeah. So yeah, I think that's a

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win for movie lovers. For sure. Um, uh, yeah, I never read the book. I'm excited for that though.

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Same. All right. Coming up on Camp Kaiju next time we're going back to the nineties with the

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relic. This was your pick, Matt. Yeah, I haven't seen it since it first came out, which I think

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was 96. So I would have been 12 years old. I remember loving it when I was that young. And

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then I, I've seen like bits and pieces on TV since then, and it looks really cool. Like it looks very

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entertaining, kind of scary at times and like sort of a predictive predictable way. Um, so yeah, it

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blasts from the past from, you know, 30 years ago or so, uh, excited to watch. Nice. And then that'll

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be followed by 1941's the Wolfman from Universal Studios starring Lon Chaney Jr. That's my pick.

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Uh, it's one of my beloved monster movies and, uh, I haven't seen it in a while, so it was due for a

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rewatch. Yeah, it's a classic and I've been loving the sort of like 1990s slash early 2000s kick that

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we've been on, but it'll be good to go back to some like, you know, actual horror film history.

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It'll be good. Yeah. We have featured a lot of movies, maybe from our youth. Yeah, I'm okay with

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that, but you're right. We can have some variety. Yeah. I think we're going for like a nostalgia

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aspect recently, but let's, let's go even more into the nostalgia and deeper into the past. Yeah.

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They broke into the mall for the wildest all night party of their lives.

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Dead meat, but you're never alone in the chopping mall.

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What's that? Robot life.

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We're shopping costs you an arm and a leg.

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Tim Burton, director of Batman, Beetlejuice and Edward Scissorhands,

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now takes you to a completely different world, the true story of a Hollywood legend, Ed Wood.

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And action!

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He made movies like no one else.

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You wanna keep moving?

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You've got to get through that door.

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Ah, that was perfect.

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Perfect?

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Did you know anything about film production?

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Well, I like to think so.

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He had an eye for talent.

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I met Bela Lugosi.

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Well, I thought he was dead.

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This is the most uncomfortable coffin I've ever been in.

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No, it's very much alive.

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You flying saucer?

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He had a passion for storytelling.

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Get me transvestites.

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I need transvestites.

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You're flashy.

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They want that.

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Okay.

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But they want professionalism so Nick Suninelli without losing naivete.

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What kind of a movie is this?

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It's science fiction.

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A heartbreaking romance.

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Brave robbers from outer space.

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Brave robbers from what?

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And he had a secret he couldn't hide.

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I like to dress in women's clothing.

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Panties, sweaters, pumps.

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It's just something I do.

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You don't like sex with girls?

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No, I love sex with girls.

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Wearing their clothes makes me feel closer to them.

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How can you act so casual when you're dressed like that?

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All right, everybody. Let's finish this picture.

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Touchstone Pictures presents Johnny Depp, Martin Landau, Sarah Jessica Parker,

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Patricia Arquette and Bill Murray.

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In the true story

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Wanna give me a hand?

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Keep rolling.

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of an unforgettable filmmaker

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We're making another movie.

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I got the Church of Beverly Hills to put up the cash.

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How do you get all your friends to get baptized?

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Just so you can make a monster movie.

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and his legacy that will live forever.

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How do you turn this off?

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Shake his legs around. Looks like he's killing him.

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This is the one.

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Japanese, I command you.

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This is the one I'll be remembered for.

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Ed Wood, a Tim Burton film.

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Really? Worst film you ever saw?

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Well, my next one will be better.

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Hello.

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What's your personal history with Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes?

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Well, that's another one that I saw when I first came out.

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So I was like 17 at the time.

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And like I mentioned before, I had never seen the original Planet of the Apes series.

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So I was coming into the story pretty fresh.

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You know, I think when I first saw it, I thought it was fine.

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Like not not great, not terrible.

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I was a little surprised by the very bad reviews that are mostly bad reviews.

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That I got when I first came out.

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I thought it was entertaining enough.

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You know, again, that's that's kind of all of my history with it.

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This has never been a franchise that I've like absolutely loved or like felt the need to explore.

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But kind of belatedly, now I want to.

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And like I would like to get into the like more recent series,

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like the reboot that started in 2011.

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But yeah, the Tim Burton one is kind of an anomaly.

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Like, you know, like you mentioned before, it's not a reboot.

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It's not a sequel.

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It's kind of a spinoff, I guess.

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But yeah, just that one viewing like 22 years ago, 23 years ago was my only experience with it.

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When you saw it in the theater, were you you were a teenager?

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Yeah.

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Were you when you saw movies back then, were you discernible?

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Did you have an eye yet to be like, that's a good movie.

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That's a bad movie.

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I would like to believe that I did.

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I don't I don't think I had all the like terminology of like what kind of angle that is.

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Or like what kind of edit that is or like the kinds of film stock they use or like anything like that.

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You know, and I didn't really know very I didn't know all that much about film history.

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But like I started loving movies and like middle school and seeing as much as I could.

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Like, you know, I was going through the AFI list of like the best 100 movies back in middle school.

212
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So I had seen like Citizen Kane and Mr.

213
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Smith Goes to Washington and classics like that.

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So I knew a little bit about film history, but like, you know, not enough to sound intelligent or whatever.

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So I think I kind of at that time just had like a gut feeling if a movie was good or bad,

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but I couldn't really put like an explanation behind that opinion, you know.

217
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Yeah, I was probably the same way.

218
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Like, you know, in the late 90s, I remember biking to our neighborhood movie theater in West Bend, Wisconsin and seeing Batman and Robin,

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which most people hated, but I thought it was really fun and I kind of want to return to it.

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The only reason I bring that up is because like, you know,

221
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I heard that it was bad from everybody, but I like, you know, 16 year old me was like,

222
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I don't know what you're talking about. This is great.

223
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Like, it looks cool.

224
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It's Batman. There are villains like I was all into it, you know.

225
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I get that.

226
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That probably does not present me as like a film lover to be trusted or like somebody who knows what they're talking about with movies.

227
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But at least back then I loved it.

228
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I felt great.

229
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You don't have to defend your credentials on this show.

230
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Thank you.

231
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I appreciate that.

232
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Okay, let's get into some of the cast and crew of Planet of the Apes.

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The director is Tim Burton, as we talked about his his previous film to this was 1999 Sleepy Hollow, which I agree with you, Matt.

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I think is a gothic feast.

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Like I just I love that movie and the visuals and the dark tones.

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So drastically different aesthetic from from Planet of the Apes.

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Danny Elfman's doing the music.

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Longtime Burton partner Rick Baker is doing the makeup cinematography by Philippe Russo and the producer is Richard D.

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Zanuck, who I believe greenlit the original Planet of the Apes in 1968.

240
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So it's kind of an emotional project for him.

241
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Yeah, it was a full circle moment for him.

242
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And I know Zanuck because he also produced he co-produced Jaws.

243
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So that's like a name because I always had the Jaws poster on my wall growing up and I memorized all the credits and I was like, oh, there's Zanuck.

244
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I know you.

245
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Yeah.

246
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And I believe the son of Darrell F.

247
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Zanuck, right?

248
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Who's like royalty in Hollywood history.

249
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So of course.

250
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Yep.

251
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Going going back to the early days like yeah, Darrell Zanuck.

252
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I think since the silent era in the 20s, I think was a producer for was a 20th Century Fox.

253
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I think so.

254
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So yeah, big name Zanuck for sure.

255
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The whole family.

256
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Do you want to talk about the cast at all?

257
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Yeah, for sure.

258
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So we have Mark Wahlberg as Captain Leo Davidson.

259
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He's the main human protagonist, you know, probably toward like near the height of his stardom, I guess.

260
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At this time, he's still obviously a big star, but I guess Boogie Nights had come out shortly before this movie.

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We have Tim Roth as General Thaid buried beneath a lot of makeup, as many of the cast members are, including Helena Bonham Carter as Ari.

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She's kind of a liberal minded ape who supports humans and is very much against her fellow apes mistreatment of human characters.

263
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Michael Clarke Duncan as Colonel Attar, Paul Giamatti, a lot of fun in this movie as Limbo and Orangutan, who is kind of a slave trader of humans.

264
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Sorry, my cat is making a lot of noise.

265
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We have Chris Christopherson as Karubi and Estella Warren as Karubi's daughter, Dana.

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Those last two characters are both human characters.

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Big ensemble cast here.

268
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Oh, I might I might add just real quick that Charlton Heston has a cameo in this movie as well as General Thaid's father.

269
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Yes, that's right.

270
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And he did not want credit on this film.

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I don't know why.

272
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Maybe, you know, I don't I don't want to be mean to this film, but maybe Heston was like, I don't need to be associated with this anymore that I already am.

273
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Yeah, especially in comparison with the 1968 movie.

274
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In comparison with the 1968 original, which is a classic in its own right, certainly.

275
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But maybe to be fair, everyone wanted it to be a secret cameo.

276
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Yes, it is. You don't even know it's him.

277
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Really, I didn't know it.

278
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He's old. He's buried in makeup.

279
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Right.

280
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Unless somebody told me I wouldn't have recognized him.

281
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I was kind of looking out for him.

282
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I knew that he had a cameo in this movie and he has a line.

283
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There are a couple moments in this movie that obnoxiously call back to the original and Charlton Heston has a line where he's like, damn them, damn them all to hell.

284
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And it's like, oh, yeah, that's him.

285
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You can tell. I think you can tell from that line.

286
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But yeah, yeah.

287
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I mean, like under the makeup, it's hard, hard to know for sure.

288
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Oh, I didn't share my brief history with the film.

289
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Oh, yeah.

290
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Yeah, I remember seeing it when it came out.

291
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Maybe my family had rented it.

292
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My mom's a big Apes fan.

293
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And I remember the twist ending with Spoiler Alert, the Lincoln Memorial.

294
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So I remember flashes like that.

295
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But I really sat down and watched it for the first time last year when I was on paternal leave.

296
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And I went through a number of the Apes films.

297
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And I'm a completionist.

298
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And I watched the first five of the original series.

299
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Blew me away with their social commentary and their real interpersonal dramas.

300
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Combined with action and sci fi.

301
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It's like, oh, this is such a sweet spot.

302
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And then I got to Burton's film and I was like, okay, that was so different and lacking in so many ways.

303
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Again, I don't want to be mean to this film.

304
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I think it's just right for criticism.

305
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,600
And the new series, I haven't gotten through all of them myself.

306
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,800
In my opinion, they're really heavy in a good way.

307
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They're still really dramatic and they're really long.

308
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,600
And I kind of have to be in the right frame of mind.

309
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:17,600
Yeah.

310
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Like I said before, I'm only like 75% through the 2011 rise of the Planet of the Apes.

311
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But I know what you mean about being kind of heavy.

312
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It's a sad movie.

313
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There's a lot of mistreatment of the Apes.

314
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:34,200
There's the John Lithgow character who is afflicted with Alzheimer's disease.

315
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:35,200
Yeah.

316
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,600
A lot of kind of dark, sad, heavy themes for sure.

317
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Right.

318
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Which is actually my personal taste.

319
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I would rather a sci fi film take itself really seriously,

320
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even if it's about apes taking over the world, which is why I think Tim Burton's movie doesn't always land with me.

321
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,400
Maybe he's trying to like have his cake and eat it too.

322
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Trying to be a little campy, trying to be a little funny.

323
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:09,800
But also, like you're not really digging into the themes that every other eight movie has leaned into.

324
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,200
Yeah, it seems that way.

325
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Although again, I'm not an expert on this series,

326
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,200
but I get the impression that Tim Burton and some other people in the cast and crew were like,

327
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it's Planet of the Apes.

328
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We got to do it. It's so fun.

329
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,000
It's like a classic world or like environment or whatever.

330
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:30,200
You know, but maybe they didn't really have a clear idea of like the new voice that they would bring to it.

331
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And I think also like the difficult and rushed production schedule severely hampered this film as well.

332
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,600
Yeah, that's a good way to frame it too.

333
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,200
Which we'll talk about soon.

334
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,400
Yeah, well, we can start talking about it now.

335
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,600
What a segue.

336
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:49,800
Yeah.

337
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:57,000
So like Vincent mentioned, the first Planet of the Apes series was five films that ran from 1968 to 73.

338
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The first one was based pretty loosely, as far as I know, on the novel by Pierre Boulet.

339
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Development on a new film started in the 1980s.

340
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In 1988, 20th Century Fox commissioned Adam Rifkin.

341
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They contacted Rifkin to write a movie independent of the first series.

342
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Rifkin said his idea was that the Ape Empire had reached its Roman era.

343
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A descendant of Charlton Heston's character named Duke would eventually lead a human slave revolt against the oppressive Romanesque Apes led by General Ezon.

344
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According to Rifkin, it would have been a real sword and sandal spectacular monkey style.

345
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He admitted that Gladiator basically did the same thing without the ape costumes.

346
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It does not sound very good, so maybe it's for the best that that project never totally got off the ground.

347
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I was going to have the exact opposite reaction.

348
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,600
Oh, well, I think that sounds like, I don't know, bring something new to it.

349
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Do something new.

350
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Maybe the ape civilization.

351
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,200
Maybe there I would love to see a Spartacus style.

352
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Sword and sandal epic with apes.

353
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:18,600
I guess it could have its kind of amusingly campy moments, but I guess I'm not I'm not big into Gladiator movies or like sword and sandal movies.

354
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,800
I don't really like Spartacus all that much.

355
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:26,800
Gladiator is kind of fun at times, but yeah, you know, I mean,

356
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:37,800
having that kind of story and ape costumes could be fun, but I don't know how original it would be, you know, but but then that movie never got off the ground anyway, so perhaps we'll never know.

357
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,600
That's great, because there's going to be some other ideas that other directors kick around later on.

358
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,600
And it just makes me think about our mummy episode.

359
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:56,600
We talked about all the different ideas other directors and writers had for a mummy re-envisioning, and we thought how many of those sounded really cool.

360
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:04,600
Yeah, there are some other ideas for the Planet of the Apes reboot that I do think sounds kind of cool, which we'll get into in a moment here.

361
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,400
All right, but Gladiators don't do it for you for some reason.

362
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,000
You know, I mean, Spartacus is so long.

363
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,800
It's so just kind of like dull and bland.

364
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:19,600
It's a Stanley Kubrick movie who's normally great, but he's like fully in like director for hire mode.

365
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,400
Yeah, it just doesn't do it for me.

366
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:26,400
Even, you know, like the biblical epics like Ben Hur is again, just kind of long and boring.

367
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,400
It has its moments for sure, but it's not my favorite genre.

368
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:30,200
Yeah.

369
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,600
OK, yeah, I learned that about you.

370
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,800
So I'll keep the sword and sandaled collector set I got for you.

371
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,800
I'll just keep that for myself.

372
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:40,800
Oh, man.

373
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,800
Well, now I want to explore.

374
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:48,000
If there's ever any kind of like, you know, Gladiators slash Monster movie crossover.

375
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,800
I mean, you know, sort of to your point, I mean, I would check that out.

376
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,400
I hope so.

377
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:56,800
All right.

378
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:06,800
Well, Rick Baker, one of the legends of makeup effects in Hollywood, he's been attached.

379
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:13,200
He ended up he and Danny Elfman, another noted creator behind the music.

380
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,200
They did do the makeup and the effect for the 2001 version,

381
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,200
but they had originally been attached to it to the project in the 80s.

382
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:32,600
However, this whole Roman Apes movie with Baker and Elfman did fall through studio executives at Fox.

383
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,600
There were some new ones and they they just couldn't get behind Rifkin's idea.

384
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,800
So the project was abandoned.

385
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,000
The next idea that kind of got off the ground, I think sounds pretty great.

386
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,400
Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh had this idea.

387
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:54,000
They pitched a concept with a Planet of the Apes story set in the Renaissance.

388
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,800
Roddy McDowell was eager to play a part.

389
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:04,000
The idea was that the Apes were kind of entering their Renaissance kind of like high art sort of phase,

390
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,600
like decadence and everything, but then it falls apart shortly thereafter.

391
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,000
The society does.

392
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:15,000
I thought that idea sounded pretty cool, but the new studio executives again did not like that idea.

393
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,400
So that didn't happen either.

394
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:23,200
Nope. And now Oliver Stone comes into the picture as producer in 1993.

395
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,800
He's tasked with bringing this all together.

396
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,200
He gets Arnold Schwarzenegger to sign on to the project in 94.

397
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,000
Wild. I can see it, though.

398
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,800
Why not? Yeah, I would love that movie.

399
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,800
For sure. Yeah.

400
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,800
Oliver Stone hires screenwriter Terry Hayes.

401
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:51,600
And Hayes comes up with a script about time traveling scientists who go back to the Paleolithic era to prevent the spread of a humanity ending virus.

402
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,000
There they find humans and apes battling for the future of the planet.

403
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:04,000
So it's like the origins of humankind lay in the Stone Age when there's like this war happening.

404
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,800
Again, studio executives could not get behind this.

405
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,000
They didn't the executive. The executives didn't want something too serious.

406
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,400
And there was a producer, Dylan Sellers.

407
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,000
This is so wild to me.

408
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,800
He insisted that Hayes include a comedic scene with apes playing baseball.

409
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:27,600
And Hayes hated this idea because that's stupid.

410
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:37,000
And when Hayes turned in another draft without the baseball scene, he was fired on the spot.

411
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,600
It's such a bad idea.

412
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,200
Why would that be the one thing that you're going to die on the hill for?

413
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:43,400
It's such a terrible idea.

414
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:55,200
So again, we have this push and pull between the comedic nature or the campy nature of Planet of the Apes, but also the serious movies that they are at heart.

415
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,000
And Matt, you alluded to this.

416
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,200
This was the frame that you put this in.

417
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:14,400
It's like people wanted to make an apes movie because they loved Planet of the Apes and like how fun it was without actually understanding the the moral lessons at the heart of this franchise.

418
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,800
Yeah. So that's why you get a dumb idea.

419
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,400
Like, let's just put apes in a baseball field.

420
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,200
Yeah.

421
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:31,400
I mean, if it was like a whole movie about apes playing baseball, I actually prefer that idea to the apes as gladiators concept.

422
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,000
But probably both of them are not very strong.

423
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,000
I'll admit that.

424
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,000
So this kind of just kept on happening, though.

425
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,200
The project got bounced around to various big names throughout the 90s.

426
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,200
James Cameron, Peter Jackson.

427
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,000
Again, they approached and he again declined.

428
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,200
For this time, he declined.

429
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,600
Chris Columbus, Roland Emmerich, Michael Bay.

430
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:57,800
Like, you know, kind of long convoluted, torturous production stories are nothing new in Hollywood.

431
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:58,800
It happens all the time.

432
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:05,000
But this one especially kind of languished in this like pre-production hell for more than a decade.

433
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:10,800
It's kind of bouncing around and never really got off the ground until dot dot dot.

434
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,800
Tim Burton finally signed on in February 2000.

435
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,200
Richard Dezanek producing, like we mentioned.

436
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,400
Baker and Altman returned to the project.

437
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,600
Like Vincent said, longtime collaborators of Tim Burton.

438
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,400
And yeah, finally, the project had some momentum.

439
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,800
Filming got underway in late 2000.

440
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:38,400
Burton insisted on makeup over CGI, and he insisted on having Rick Baker do that.

441
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:39,600
Or actually, he was torn.

442
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:48,200
Burton was torn between hiring Baker and Stan Winston, two legends who he had worked with before on on different pictures.

443
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,200
But he went with Baker.

444
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:59,800
And this is why, because Baker, he is a self-professed fan of not just Planet of the Apes, but like ape movies in general.

445
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:07,400
In the 40s, there's a great weird tradition of of ape movies, men in ape costumes, you know, scaring women and stuff.

446
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,600
Anyways, Rick Baker, super nerd.

447
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,400
He's always wanted to do an ape movie.

448
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,200
Yeah, I think he had done makeup for some ape movies before.

449
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:23,600
Like he had worked on the 1976 King Kong and I think Greystroke as well, which I'm pretty sure is a Tarzan movie from like the 80s.

450
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,400
I've never seen that, though.

451
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,800
But he was never totally happy with the way it worked out.

452
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,800
So he thought that this would be a chance to like really perfect his ape makeup effects.

453
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,400
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

454
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:42,400
That the effects, you know, they'd start putting the makeup on actors at two in the morning.

455
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,200
And then the actors would be in makeup until like nine o'clock at night.

456
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:51,000
And then it would take like an hour to get out of the, you have to come back four hours later.

457
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:57,600
Like, you know, when when actors have to go through that, I'm like, all right, they can be paid hundreds of millions of dollars.

458
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,200
I'm like, deserved.

459
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,200
Yeah.

460
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,400
But again, I think a lost art.

461
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:11,600
I mean, like what Andy Serkis does with the stop motion performances and all those actors like that is.

462
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,000
I think that is really impressive in its own way.

463
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,000
So I'm not going to deride that method.

464
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:24,600
But like Rick Baker's makeup and the original 68 series, that makeup too was was groundbreaking.

465
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,600
And I think it holds up as well.

466
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,800
Yeah, I mean, I can't can't speak to the original series, although I definitely do want to visit that sometime soon.

467
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:37,000
But even in the 2001 Tim Burton, I think the makeup effects are maybe the best part of the movie.

468
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,000
And I'll you know, I'll talk more about this later.

469
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,800
I feel like this movie is a product of another time of the early 2000s.

470
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,200
It was only about 20 years ago.

471
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:51,000
But there there are some things I like about this movie because it was like a more

472
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:56,800
maybe nostalgia is making me say this, but maybe a more innocent time of movie making and movie going in a way.

473
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,400
But I'll talk more about that later.

474
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,200
Well, can't wait.

475
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:01,400
Yeah.

476
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:08,000
Interesting factoid about this movie is that Tim Roth, when he learned he as General Thade,

477
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,800
learned that he would be in a scene with Charlton Heston.

478
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,000
He was very upset about that because of politics.

479
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:16,200
Tim Roth.

480
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:25,200
Well, Charlton Heston in later life became very well known and outspoken proponent of the National Rifle Association.

481
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:32,000
And Tim Roth was so against that he was upset to learn that he'd be in a scene with Charlton Heston.

482
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:33,400
I kind of admire that.

483
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,000
And I also admire that Tim Roth was like, it's a working environment.

484
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,400
He this Charlton Heston plays my father.

485
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,000
Like he kind of went ahead and did it.

486
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,400
I admire the professionalism of that.

487
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,800
And I also admire his political stance.

488
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,800
So that is an interesting tidbit about this movie for sure.

489
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:56,600
Yeah. As I tell my students, you don't have to like everybody, but you do have to work with them sometimes.

490
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,600
Yeah.

491
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,000
Yeah. You will probably encounter people that you strongly disagree with.

492
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:03,200
But how do you deal with that?

493
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,800
Yeah. Yeah.

494
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,600
That's a cool.

495
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,200
I was very interested to read that for sure.

496
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:16,200
So it came out in July 2001 and 20th Century Fox was adamant about that release date.

497
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:17,400
They had planned on that release.

498
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:23,000
I think for like several years beforehand, they had this slated as like their big summer 2001.

499
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,400
Not the summer, but July 2001 movie.

500
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,200
And, you know, everything was rushed because of that.

501
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,200
Like the script writing process, the set building process.

502
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,400
All of it was kind of a rush job.

503
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,600
Like the screenwriters were adding new scenes while the film was in production.

504
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:46,200
So I truly do think that affected the story, the plot, like a lot of different, like the characters, a lot of different elements in the movie.

505
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,000
Anyway, when it was released in July 2001, it was a commercial hit,

506
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:57,200
but received mixed reviews from critics and audiences who lamented its messy script and its confusing twist ending.

507
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:03,400
But Rick Baker's Makeup Effects and Danny Elfman's score did receive a lot of acclaim for most critics at the time.

508
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,800
Was there going to be a sequel?

509
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,800
Well, if the movie had done better critically, perhaps there would have been.

510
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,400
But no, there was not.

511
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:17,600
Tim Burton was quoted as saying he would rather jump out a window than direct a sequel to Climb of the Apes.

512
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,600
You know, for them, it's totally understandable.

513
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,600
Like, I absolutely cannot blame Tim Burton for that.

514
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:31,200
And, you know, like maybe some of the cast would have come back if Tim Burton had come back.

515
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:38,000
Like Burton and Helena Bonham Carter started dating right around the time of the making of this movie and they were together for 13 years.

516
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:43,200
So, you know, I mean, like maybe if they had had if if Burton and wanted to come back,

517
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,400
other people probably would have wanted to come back as well.

518
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:50,200
But I think there was a mutual disinterest from all parties in this case.

519
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:56,600
I'm just going to say this, I think as an observation, you know, an observation, I think it's so rare.

520
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,800
That a movie was a financial hit and it did not get a sequel.

521
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,600
I kind of admire whoever made the decision to say, you know what?

522
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,200
Money's not the most important thing.

523
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,400
This was not to the level we wanted it artistically.

524
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,400
So let's let's take a break.

525
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,000
And I'm like that I feel like that's so that is so anti Hollywood.

526
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,200
Yeah, that happened.

527
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:28,600
Yeah, for sure. And then you have the reboot series that started in 2011, which seems very, very strong.

528
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:34,400
Like again, I have to watch most of those movies, but I think they did it the right way with that most recent series movies.

529
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:35,600
Yeah. Yeah.

530
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,000
All right, everybody, we're going to take a quick sponsor break.

531
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,000
Head into Menia's mailbox, talk to Mr.

532
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,800
Peter Laurie and have Naomi on the show.

533
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:51,800
And then after our break, Matt and I are going to talk about the themes of Planet of the Apes and our individual

534
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,000
breakdowns, the good, the bad and the campy.

535
00:39:54,200 --> 00:40:00,800
So this is brought to you by Zach Linder and the Zach pack powered by Coldwell Banker Realty, your source for real estate

536
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,600
home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients and residential buyers.

537
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,800
Reach out to the Zach pack today for real estate services.

538
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:13,600
Follow the Zach pack on social media and contact the Zach pack for investment opportunities.

539
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:19,200
Links in the bio and Menia's mailbox brought to you by Patreon.

540
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,400
If you become a patron, then your comments are tops among many other perks.

541
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,200
So consider checking it out.

542
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:31,400
Matt, who do we whose message do we have in the old mailbox today?

543
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:39,200
We have a message from somebody named macro man Bravo, which is good.

544
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,400
I like that name on Instagram.

545
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:50,400
He or she, I presume he but who knows says Godzilla versus Megalon is my all time favorite Godzilla movie.

546
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,200
I saw it in the 70s on a double bill with Giant Spider Invasion.

547
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,800
And that was one of the best movie theater days ever.

548
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,000
So much blood with three exclamation points.

549
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:02,000
Cool.

550
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,000
Yeah, I'm very intrigued by Giant Spider Invasion.

551
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:06,000
I've never heard of that.

552
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:07,200
Same.

553
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,400
I have a running list of movies to watch because of this podcast.

554
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,800
It's a wonderful problem to have.

555
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,600
We will never exhaust all of the monster movies out there.

556
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,200
I love it.

557
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,400
Well, thank you macro man Bravo.

558
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:22,600
We appreciate it.

559
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,000
And for everybody else out there, keep your comments coming.

560
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:27,200
We're going to read more next time.

561
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:38,400
Before Karloff and Lugosi stocked the screens, the movies were no less monstrous.

562
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:46,600
These frightful figures lurked in the expressionistic shadows and danced in the macabre moonlight.

563
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,600
Oh, they laughed.

564
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,000
They cried.

565
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:55,000
They fooled the sensibilities of honest, decent folk.

566
00:41:55,200 --> 00:42:07,400
For in the age of silent pictures, these gruesome ghouls nonetheless cried out with the savage humanity that took the breath from all who witnessed their devilish delights.

567
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:13,600
For in the silence, no one can hear you scream.

568
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:24,000
Yes, I am almost there.

569
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,600
I'm climbing into a new beginning.

570
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:36,400
From above there was a light and down below I turned to look for an escape from this recording booth.

571
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:41,600
And I'm climbing up into the light, into freedom, into...

572
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,800
Oh no.

573
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,400
No, what is this?

574
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,000
This is a nightmare.

575
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:55,600
It is the same recording booth in which I have been imprisoned these many months.

576
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,800
What madness is this?

577
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:06,400
This never-ending and perpetual booth of doom in which I must review monster movies from the silent era.

578
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:17,200
Is Conrad Vite controlled by Dr. Caligari so I, Peter Lorium controlled by Matthew and Vincent?

579
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:25,400
Or only by fulfilling my unholy obligations will they allow me to return peacefully to my grave.

580
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:37,800
Well, if this is to be my lot in the afterlife, I might as well tell you about the 1920 classic, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.

581
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:51,400
The film is about a sideshow entertainer named Dr. Caligari who commands total control over a mysterious somnambulist or a sleepwalker.

582
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:57,600
Dr. Caligari has the somnambulist enact vengeance on any who cross him.

583
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,800
If only I had my own somnambulist.

584
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,000
But I digress.

585
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:11,400
Finally, at an insane asylum, our story concludes with an ending that must be seen to be believed.

586
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,000
It is all a tale of madness and murder.

587
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:22,600
And perhaps, perhaps Matthew and Vincent will know how closely this movie will mirror their own fate.

588
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:28,600
I apologize, ladies and gentlemen.

589
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:41,000
It is sometimes my emotions get the better of me when I think too hard about what has happened to me since my death all those many years ago.

590
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:48,000
But where was I? Oh, right, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.

591
00:44:48,200 --> 00:45:07,000
It has been called the first true horror film and is the quintessential example of the German Expressionist movement in which the sets, lighting, makeup, and other art designs are designed to illuminate our innermost nightmares.

592
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:22,000
Indeed, the writers of this movie, Hans Janowitz and Karl Mayer, were veterans of the recently ended First World War, and their movie reflects their distrust of government military figures.

593
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:34,600
These themes of institutional distrust and the artistic stylings of German Expressionism are used by horror, mystery, and noir filmmakers to this day.

594
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:44,200
Next time on Silent But Deadly, we will explore another landmark example from the silent era called Metropolis.

595
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:52,600
Perhaps you have heard of this movie from my long-dead and resting-at-ease colleague Fritz Long.

596
00:45:52,800 --> 00:46:00,400
Perhaps I may numb myself enough to the torture of this podcast to get through my dastardly contract from hell.

597
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,200
Perhaps I may turn a corner yet.

598
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:10,600
Perhaps my captors may visit me and at least provide me company and conversation.

599
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:16,800
No, no, Pierre, you are enough, but a man must have human friends.

600
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:26,800
The Last Supper

601
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:40,000
In a small Wisconsin town, something was about to happen that would send shockwaves around the world.

602
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:47,000
This is the sheriff. Get on the emergency unit. I'm down here all by myself.

603
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,600
They're hell-bent on destroying that beast. The crowd's beginning to take over.

604
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:57,000
Call a National Guard back. Tell them we need some heavy equipment, guns, tanks, anything.

605
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:08,000
They came by the hundreds, by the thousands, killing and crippling, creeping, crawling creatures, determined to destroy the Earth.

606
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,000
Could anything stop them? Could anything stop the giant spider invasion?

607
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,800
There has never been a film like this before.

608
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,600
Here comes Naomi Osborn, everybody.

609
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:26,200
Hello.

610
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:27,000
Hey.

611
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:28,000
Hi, Naomi.

612
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:29,800
Hey, how's it going?

613
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:31,000
Good. How are you?

614
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,800
Good. I'm just trying to get my video to work.

615
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,800
It's been a few weeks since the Mummy.

616
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:44,800
It has been. I was excited to re-watch Crown of the Apes. I hadn't seen it since it came out.

617
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:50,800
And it's just one of those so hated movies that I just had to re-watch.

618
00:47:51,000 --> 00:48:00,200
And I'm such a glasses half full type person, but I was just curious to see if it deserved the hate.

619
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,200
And I have to say that I think it does.

620
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,400
I wasn't here for the rest of you guys' conversation.

621
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:19,600
And I don't like to trash movies, but wow, like I was really surprised that it was as bad as people say, because usually I'm just like, I don't know.

622
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,200
People are really hard on re-imaginings, remakes.

623
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,200
But I don't know.

624
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,400
I just, this one did not do it for me.

625
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:32,400
Were you somehow listening to the past hour of Matt and I's conversation?

626
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,600
Because we said the exact same things.

627
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,400
We don't want to be mean to this movie.

628
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:46,000
We acknowledge what it does right, but there's a lot that it misses the mark on.

629
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:47,200
Totally.

630
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:55,400
You know, I'm really glad that you guys have the attitude you do, because I know you're not needless haters at all.

631
00:48:55,400 --> 00:49:02,400
And so I just can't believe that it was so, it just misses the mark in so many ways.

632
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:08,000
And I almost wish I could have heard the rest of your conversation, because I'm curious what you guys thought.

633
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:09,800
Like, what did it do right?

634
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:17,800
It was so just weird and boring, but action packed.

635
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:19,800
I just couldn't, I don't know.

636
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:21,000
It was just wild stuff.

637
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:21,800
It was.

638
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:22,600
Really wild stuff.

639
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:27,000
So much action yet somehow boring.

640
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,200
I, you know, I think I hate using that word even.

641
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:42,600
But honestly, this most recent rewatch for me was a bit of a slog because I had just seen it last year and I was like, do I really want to watch this again?

642
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,600
I did this to myself because I chose it for Camp Kaiju.

643
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:51,800
There are a few things I think are like mildly charming about the movie.

644
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,200
Like, I just think it's kind of interesting that it came out.

645
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,600
I'll talk about this maybe a little bit more in that episode.

646
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:03,800
But like, it's only about 20 years old, but I feel like it came out in like a totally different era of like movie making and movie watching.

647
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:08,600
Like 2001, the year that this came out was like a huge box office here.

648
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,800
You had the Mummy Returns, Monsters Inc, Phantom Menace.

649
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,400
Although that was a couple years earlier, I guess.

650
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,600
But like, you know, studios were like rolling in money at this time.

651
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,000
And like this movie did pretty well.

652
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:28,000
This doesn't really have anything to do with the movie, but I kind of just it's cool to think about an era when like people flocked to movie theaters, which they don't really do anymore.

653
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,400
I think the nostalgia aspect for me makes me like it just a little bit.

654
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,200
I like the use of makeup over CGI.

655
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:44,000
I think Tim Roth gives like a good terrifying performance, like underneath what must have been like 50 pounds of makeup, you know.

656
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:53,200
So there are some things I like, but generally I agree with you both that like it's yeah, there are more bad things than good things about this movie for sure.

657
00:50:53,400 --> 00:51:07,400
It's so funny that you mentioned the nostalgia aspect because I was thinking like I almost was wondering like what did Tim Burton how how did nostalgia play into his reimagining of this film?

658
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:16,400
Because if you look at something like Dark Shadows, which was obviously also probably rooted in nostalgia and kind of him wanting to explore that.

659
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:18,400
I just wonder like.

660
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:23,400
You know how much did nostalgia play a role in shaping this?

661
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:29,000
You know, we'll never know for sure, but for both Burton and the audience and like where did it go wrong?

662
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:39,200
You know, I feel like we're such a nostalgic generation, you know, Millennials, Gen X and everyone, you know, younger than us because we have access to all this media.

663
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:48,200
And it's just it's it's fun to kind of feel connected in a weird way that we're all nostalgic for this, but I think it didn't help them in this case.

664
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:49,600
Yeah, for sure.

665
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:58,800
Yeah, we were saying that maybe the people behind this movie were a little blinded by their nostalgia and love for.

666
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,800
You know, the more fun aspects of the original series.

667
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:09,000
While not actually realizing that those movies are a bit more serious as well.

668
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,400
And it's that it's that.

669
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,400
Can't be in serious tone.

670
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,600
I think that works so well in the original series.

671
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,800
Totally, I felt like this one just didn't know what I wanted to be.

672
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:29,400
It's like, does it want to be an action movie, a political commentary, sci fi, you know, and it doesn't really nail down a direction.

673
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:34,600
And in that, it kind of misses all the impact of the original.

674
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,200
I don't know.

675
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,800
I don't know what direction it could have taken more.

676
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:47,800
I read a quote from him in preparation for this where he was talking about the ending and saying that the quote was I wanted to leave people with something to talk about.

677
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:53,000
I guess mission accomplished, but not in the same way.

678
00:52:53,200 --> 00:53:01,200
You know, I think it's just so strange that such a visual forward, auteur director like him would make a movie like this.

679
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:06,600
And I would be like, what if Wes Anderson reimagined Soylent Green or something like that?

680
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,000
Like, how weird would that be?

681
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,600
I don't know. It just blew my mind.

682
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:16,800
I was very surprised, but I'm glad that it made other, you know, it kicked off.

683
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,600
You know, Planet of the Apes, a series of other movies and some of them have been good since then.

684
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:27,000
You know, I guess there are some good things about it.

685
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,000
I'm dying to see that Wes Anderson Soylent Green movie.

686
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:31,600
I want that to happen so much.

687
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,400
Me too. You know that green will be chartreuse.

688
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,000
Yeah, for sure.

689
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,000
Let's make it happen somehow.

690
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,400
Yes, yes, yes.

691
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:49,200
Naomi, are you a big fan of both the original series and the more recent series of reboot movies?

692
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,200
You kind of alluded to that a little bit.

693
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:57,400
Yes, I really I especially the first one, this one that this is remaking.

694
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,000
I really love that film.

695
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:03,600
I was like I didn't know the twist when I saw it somehow.

696
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:05,200
Like I didn't know that twist.

697
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:09,400
I guess because just being a kid and I didn't see any pop culture around it or anything.

698
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:13,200
So I really was surprised and it was thought provoking.

699
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:18,400
And so that did kick off, you know, enjoying the more recent films.

700
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,800
And I've come to enjoy them very much.

701
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:27,600
And I think that they say a lot and they they managed to stay somewhat current and resonate with audiences.

702
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,000
What about you guys?

703
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,600
I'm kind of like a newcomer to the series.

704
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,600
I it's a big blind spot for me.

705
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,800
I have seen bits and pieces of the original series on TV,

706
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:41,000
but I've never seen any of the original series all the way through like any of those movies.

707
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,000
And that's I want to rectify that as soon as possible.

708
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:49,600
I did try to watch Rise of the Planet of the Apes from 2011 before recording tonight.

709
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,200
I have like half an hour left to go, unfortunately, so I didn't finish it.

710
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:59,000
But I'm hoping to to educate myself on these movies soon.

711
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:07,400
I honestly think, like considering any long term franchise, Alien Predator, you name it.

712
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:15,000
I think, like, overwhelmingly, I think Planet of the Apes is the strongest franchise.

713
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:16,600
Like they have 10 films now.

714
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:22,600
And except for Tim Burton's, I think they're all really strong movies.

715
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:28,400
That's cool to hear, especially since it sounds like you kind of watch them back to back to back.

716
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:33,000
Or at least somewhat around them, because sometimes when people take those deep dives,

717
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:37,800
it can be like, you know, they sort of lose their emotional resonance or something.

718
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,200
So that's cool to hear.

719
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,000
I'd like to do a full on deep dive.

720
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,800
I watched them as they've come out and enjoyed them on all levels,

721
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:51,000
you know, from more of a blockbuster level into a more thought provoking level.

722
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,200
But yeah, that's cool. I never thought about that.

723
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,200
That's quite a claim.

724
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:57,800
You know, just consistency wise.

725
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,400
It is a lot of film.

726
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:01,400
Yeah.

727
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:05,000
And they were pumping them out in the in the 60s and 70s.

728
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,400
Like there was one, a new one every year.

729
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:13,600
And despite varying budget, you know, budget levels that you can see on the screen,

730
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,400
again, everyone's so invested to just tell a good story.

731
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:22,600
And it's one overarching story, largely between the first and the fifth.

732
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,400
And I love that consistency.

733
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:26,400
We have a through line.

734
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,000
We're following the same characters.

735
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:30,400
We're watching them grow.

736
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:31,600
It's great.

737
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:33,200
Have you read the book, Perchant?

738
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:34,400
No.

739
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,000
No, have I? I'm very curious about that.

740
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,000
What kind of adaptation is that?

741
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:45,400
I'm very interested because in this one, they even call it out very, very boldly,

742
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:47,200
you know, adapted from this book.

743
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:54,400
And I just wonder if it if it's closer to that in any way or if I just wonder, you know.

744
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,600
I wonder. I do, too.

745
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,800
And I love that it's the same novelist who wrote Bridge on the River Kwai.

746
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:02,800
Oh, I didn't know that. That's cool.

747
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:04,200
Neither. Wow.

748
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,400
Great movie. It's classic.

749
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:10,000
At least so the apes come in the last scene and you're like, where did this come from?

750
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,800
You know, would they blow up the bridge?

751
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:13,400
Right. Yeah, exactly.

752
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:17,000
Yeah. Time travel or something or what?

753
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:18,800
I don't know.

754
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,800
Hey, did you guys catch Beetlejuice 2? Not yet.

755
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,400
I was just wondering. I saw it already.

756
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:26,800
Yeah. Yeah.

757
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:32,400
I don't want to say anything because I want you guys to go in fresh and have your own opinions about it.

758
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,000
But yeah, I caught it.

759
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:35,800
It was fun.

760
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaking of long term franchise, like it's hard to remember a movie that has longer distance between that and the sequel.

761
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,400
You know, I can't even really think of one.

762
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,400
So yeah.

763
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:51,400
The original is great.

764
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:53,200
I'm excited to watch the new one.

765
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:54,000
Hopefully soon.

766
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:55,200
Yeah. Yeah.

767
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,600
I was cautiously optimistic, as always.

768
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,200
And I got to say it was better than I thought it would be.

769
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,600
But I'm curious to hear what you guys think of it.

770
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:07,400
Did you see the new Alien movie?

771
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:08,600
Yes, I did.

772
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:09,600
I did see that.

773
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:11,000
I enjoyed it.

774
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:12,800
I'm not a big alien nut.

775
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:20,000
So I feel like a lot of the lore and the Easter eggs were somewhat lost on me, but I did enjoy it.

776
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:25,200
I thought it was cool and interesting and beautiful and gross and all the cool stuff.

777
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:32,400
But since I'm not a fanatical alien person, I feel like a lot of it was lost on me or just not.

778
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,400
I didn't enjoy it to the level that a lot of other people did.

779
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:36,800
How about you?

780
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:41,000
Yeah, I'm a huge fan of the Alien series.

781
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:45,800
Actually, even the bad ones like Prometheus and like Alien Resurrection.

782
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:46,600
I kind of enjoy.

783
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,800
I didn't love Romulus all that much.

784
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:55,800
For me, I felt like there was maybe a little bit too much fan service, you know, like fan call and stuff,

785
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,600
and maybe not enough kind of like reinvention.

786
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:04,600
Or maybe like we're talking about with Planet of the Apes, like a distinct vision that they brought to it, you know.

787
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,200
But it's still like really entertaining.

788
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,000
It has its very suspenseful moments.

789
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,000
So it's not my favorite of the series, but it was still a fun watch.

790
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:15,000
Oh, you're the first fan I've heard say something like that.

791
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:16,000
That's interesting.

792
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:21,200
The only thing that really bothered me was kind of the youth aspect.

793
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:22,800
The cast was so youthful.

794
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:24,000
I don't know.

795
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:25,400
Just me in my late 30s.

796
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:27,600
I was like, is this for me?

797
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:28,400
I don't know.

798
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,600
Yeah, not very interesting.

799
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:38,600
Like the movie spends so much time on just like several of those characters being like anti cyborg or whatever.

800
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:40,200
Anti android.

801
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:41,400
It's like we get it.

802
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:45,000
I don't know if the movie really needs to spend as much time on that as they do.

803
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:49,200
But yeah, that was that was kind of an obstacle for me to.

804
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:49,800
Yeah.

805
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:50,200
Okay.

806
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:50,800
Well, good.

807
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:52,400
It's not just me.

808
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,800
Well, should we get into some trivia?

809
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:05,400
Are you ready to play the trivia that challenge the world?

810
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,400
So here's the question.

811
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:20,000
Planet of the Apes was nominated for three Razzie Awards, which highlight the worst in cinema.

812
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:30,400
The film won two worst remake or sequel and were supporting actor awarded to which member of the supporting cast.

813
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,600
So I'll read that again.

814
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:38,600
Planet of the Apes was nominated for three Razzie Awards, which highlight the worst in cinema.

815
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:47,800
The film won two worst remake or sequel and were supporting actor awarded to which member of the supporting cast.

816
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,000
That's a good question.

817
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:51,400
I don't know the answer to that.

818
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:52,800
It could be anybody.

819
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:53,400
Yeah.

820
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:59,400
And I think some of the acting is actually a bright spot in this film.

821
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:04,800
So this could be a little bit of a stump for some people.

822
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,400
I'll be interested to see what people say.

823
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:08,400
Yeah.

824
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:14,000
And just a reminder for those listening, you can submit your answer.

825
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,800
You can comment on your favorite podcatcher.

826
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:19,800
You can comment on our Instagram.

827
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:21,200
You can send us an email.

828
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:26,600
The links to those are in the show description and that will enter you into a drawing.

829
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:31,600
And if you are chosen, you can win something from our Threadless store.

830
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:33,000
It could be a t-shirt.

831
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:34,600
It could be a sticker.

832
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:38,400
It could be a tote bag.

833
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:39,400
Who knows?

834
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:45,600
Check out our Threadless store and see what catches your eye and enter to win.

835
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:54,600
If you want to be entered twice, you can call the old Kaiju hotline and tell us what you think your answer is.

836
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,400
And that'll put you in the drawing twice.

837
01:01:57,600 --> 01:01:59,400
So yeah, them's the rules.

838
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:05,400
Check out the show description and we will see if anybody wants to play along.

839
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:15,400
We'll see you next time for the trivia that challenged the world.

840
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:25,200
So many easy ways to enter on social media or whatever you're comfortable with.

841
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:26,400
Love that.

842
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:32,000
And Naomi, we'll see you back on Camp Kaiju for the Wolfman.

843
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,400
Yeah, I'm excited.

844
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:37,800
I have never seen the Wolfman, but I've always been curious about it.

845
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,400
It was my dad's favorite Universal Monster.

846
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,600
So I've just always been interested in it, but slightly scared.

847
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:48,800
So I am interested and excited to watch that film.

848
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:49,800
That's awesome.

849
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:51,800
It's one of my favorites.

850
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:52,600
I grew up with it.

851
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,200
So, I mean, you don't have to like it if you don't.

852
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:58,200
But I'm excited for you to watch it.

853
01:02:58,400 --> 01:02:59,200
That's OK.

854
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,400
I even like movies when I don't like them.

855
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:02,400
So it's OK.

856
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:04,400
I just enjoy the experience.

857
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:06,600
So I'm excited to watch it.

858
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:10,600
And I'll bet it'll be special, even if it's not my favorite.

859
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:16,200
And can I do a quick plug for my own trivia real quick for people who might

860
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:21,600
want to come to trivia in person the next couple trivia nights?

861
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:29,200
I don't know when this will air, but the next one will be Monday, October the 7th.

862
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,200
It'll be a horror themed trivia.

863
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:32,400
So all horror.

864
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,000
I'm going to have a guest co-host.

865
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:36,600
His name is Andy Sell.

866
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:39,800
He's a local horror buff and podcaster.

867
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:41,600
He's going to be great.

868
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:47,000
He'll be writing half of the questions, which is going to be the format I do going forward.

869
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:54,000
I want to share different perspectives and different tastes at my movie trivia film friends.

870
01:03:54,200 --> 01:04:03,200
And in November, Monday the 4th, we will be meeting at 730 at Indeed Brewery for a general trivia.

871
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:04,600
There'll be no theme to it.

872
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:06,800
So I'm looking forward to that.

873
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:08,800
And I hope people come out.

874
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,200
If they do, please come say hello.

875
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:17,200
We're going to have questions from all kinds of movies, all different difficulty levels.

876
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:20,200
We're sponsored by the Trilon Theater, the Heights Theater.

877
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,600
And it's a really good time.

878
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:23,800
Hope people come out.

879
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:25,400
That's fantastic.

880
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:26,800
Yeah, it's a great time.

881
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:27,400
Yep.

882
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:28,600
First Monday of every month.

883
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:30,200
Anytime you can come.

884
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:31,400
We'd love to see you.

885
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,800
But if not, I don't like get super busy.

886
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:37,600
I'll be there for the horror themed trivia on October 7th for sure.

887
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:38,400
I can't wait.

888
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:39,200
Oh, awesome.

889
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:40,000
That'd be great.

890
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:41,600
I can't wait to see there.

891
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:43,800
I'll be wearing a costume and stuff, too.

892
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:44,800
You don't have to.

893
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,400
You can just you know, you can rock your favorite horror shirt.

894
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:50,400
That's what I've been telling people who don't want to.

895
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:54,800
But yeah, I'm excited to to that's always a really fun night.

896
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:59,200
Like people really come out and give their all towards that theme.

897
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:01,000
So I'm excited.

898
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:04,400
That's awesome. I haven't given any thought yet to my Halloween costume,

899
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:06,000
but hopefully before the seven.

900
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:07,800
Are you are you a costume guy?

901
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:11,600
Like, do you do you enjoy or is it a bit of a chore?

902
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,200
I wouldn't say it's a chore, but I'm a procrastinator.

903
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,800
So usually I wait till like October 30th and I'm like,

904
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,000
what do I have in the house to just like come up with as a costume?

905
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:24,200
Which can be fun, but I it's never like the most impressive costume of like

906
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:26,000
like any party that I go to or whatever.

907
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,400
So maybe this year I'll put some effort into it.

908
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:29,200
We'll see.

909
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:30,200
Yeah. Yeah.

910
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:33,800
You never know. I'm going to have some fun prizes for for best costume.

911
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,600
And we have some really good movie themed costumes last year.

912
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:39,400
I like to see people's creativity.

913
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:43,200
But if not, like I said, people wear really fun T-shirts to just to kind of

914
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:47,200
rip their favorite horror movies and their favorite regular movies, too.

915
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:48,840
But yeah, it should be a real fun time.

916
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:50,120
I'm excited for it.

917
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:51,480
Me too. I can't wait.

918
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:52,360
Cool.

919
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:54,040
Well, thank you guys for having me on.

920
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:55,880
Always a pleasure.

921
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:57,880
Likewise, it was a blast.

922
01:05:58,080 --> 01:05:59,040
Great question.

923
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:00,200
Have a great night.

924
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,200
We'll be out here already.

925
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,880
Bye. Thank you. But that was awesome.

926
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:06,000
All right.

927
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:07,640
I wonder what the answer to the question is.

928
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:09,040
I'm going to have to do some research.

929
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:10,760
Yeah, I genuinely don't know.

930
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:11,880
Yeah.

931
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:13,560
Yeah.

932
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:15,240
Most of the performances are fine.

933
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:17,400
You know, like that's not the thing to like

934
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:19,480
criticize about this movie, in my opinion.

935
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:21,840
But yeah, yeah.

936
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:26,960
Is the secret of silent.

937
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:33,520
New York City in the year 2022.

938
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:35,680
Nothing runs anymore.

939
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:39,040
Nothing works, but the people are the same

940
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:42,080
and the people will do anything to get what they need.

941
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:43,440
This isn't a police.

942
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:46,920
What they need most is Soylent Green.

943
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:48,960
Detective Sergeant Thorne.

944
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:52,040
He has a two year backlog of unsolved murders.

945
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:55,120
Now he's on a case that must be solved.

946
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:56,960
Charlton Heston, Edward G.

947
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:00,160
Robinson, Chuck Connors, Lee Taylor Young,

948
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,880
Brock Peters, Paula Kelly and Joseph Cotton.

949
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:06,440
Fight for survival and try to solve the most

950
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:10,200
bizarre riddle ever to face mankind.

951
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:14,840
The search for the secret of Soylent Green.

952
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,160
You will find out why Soylent Green means life.

953
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:21,600
You will find out why Soylent Green means death.

954
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:23,360
We've got to stop them.

955
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:28,200
Is the secret of Soylent Green.

956
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:29,600
Please.

957
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:36,480
That fiend squirrel on my porch is still going at it.

958
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:39,520
Well, you hope it's a squirrel, who knows?

959
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:42,840
Man, just don't open the door.

960
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:44,840
Don't open the door.

961
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:46,400
Yeah,

962
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,440
that is totally a moment out of a horror movie right there.

963
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:53,040
Man, I'm just sitting here fighting for my life.

964
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:56,360
Man, I mean, I'm not hearing anything on my end.

965
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:58,440
If I start hearing it and if I see anything

966
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,840
in the background, I'm going to start to get really worried.

967
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:01,920
OK, all right.

968
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:03,720
Let's oh, my gosh.

969
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:08,880
OK, let's talk about some themes of Planet of the Apes.

970
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:15,080
I wrote slavery, racial hierarchy, animal rights and religion.

971
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:17,000
Take your pick. Add some more.

972
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:18,400
I don't know.

973
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:20,080
They're all pretty heavy handed, right?

974
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:21,520
I mean, like there are a lot of mentions

975
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:26,200
of like, you know, policing, like slave trading.

976
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:29,840
It's like certainly, you know, in this case,

977
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:34,480
the human characters are kind of meant to represent oppressed communities

978
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:38,720
throughout human history, which is strange because I believe

979
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:41,320
almost all of the human characters are white.

980
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:43,000
There's one black character.

981
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:48,080
But in any case, like the the thematic point, you know, is that the humans here

982
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:55,280
kind of are oppressed, they're brutally kind of policed by the apes who are in power.

983
01:08:55,480 --> 01:08:59,240
So, of course, there are a lot of themes of racism and bigotry

984
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:01,880
and prejudice that come out of that well-intentioned.

985
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,480
But there's not really a lot of depth or nuance to that.

986
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:05,560
Exactly.

987
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:11,160
Unfortunately, ironically, I think this movie is light on.

988
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:13,800
Important themes like that,

989
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,440
because it's so in your face, it's really heavy handed.

990
01:09:16,440 --> 01:09:19,720
The script is not subtle.

991
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:22,040
And in that, I'm just kind of like,

992
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:27,800
I don't know, you're not you're not digging into it as deeply as you could.

993
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,520
Yeah, it's very surface level.

994
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:31,680
For sure. Yeah.

995
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:35,520
Like one kind of cringe worthy example that comes to mind is that

996
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:40,760
General Thede brings his young ape niece to like a slave trading kind of outpost.

997
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:45,640
And they buy a young human girl for the niece ape to kind of play with.

998
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:49,800
And they keep that human girl in a cage and like the apes kind of luxurious manner.

999
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:54,240
And then the human characters have to rescue that human child when they break

1000
01:09:54,440 --> 01:09:59,160
out of their prison. So, you know, I mean, like it's trying to allude to, like,

1001
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:03,920
really terrible, violent, brutal things that humans have done to each other.

1002
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:07,320
Like people in power have done to oppressed communities

1003
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,760
for centuries or millennia or whatever.

1004
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,480
But, you know, again, it's just kind of like it's not dramatic.

1005
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:15,240
It's kind of just like plotting.

1006
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:17,320
It takes a long time to get through that subplot.

1007
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:18,480
And it's like we get it.

1008
01:10:18,480 --> 01:10:20,280
We get the thematic point you're trying to make.

1009
01:10:20,480 --> 01:10:23,480
There's not like really a lot of emotional power to this.

1010
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:25,360
And it's not very thought provoking.

1011
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,840
Yeah. Same with the ideas of animal rights.

1012
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:32,120
There's a there's a religious aspect to this film.

1013
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:39,760
The apes, there's a Jesus figure named Seamos, who, as we learn, is the the chimpanzee

1014
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:48,760
astronaut Parakles through the time warp becomes their messiah at the end of the film.

1015
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:52,080
And again, I don't.

1016
01:10:52,560 --> 01:11:00,920
Not that I want to compare this to the 68 movie, but it kind of begs comparison.

1017
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:04,320
It's like the 68 movie does tackle these

1018
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:09,760
themes in a much more dialed in nature.

1019
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:17,680
And that's why it is a masterpiece of cinema or science fiction filmmaking, because.

1020
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:20,920
It it does it, it knows how to do it.

1021
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:24,960
And this movie, it's more fan service, maybe lip service.

1022
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:26,120
Yeah, I don't know.

1023
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:29,840
It doesn't take itself as seriously, so I don't take it as seriously.

1024
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:32,840
Yeah. And from what I've seen, the newer

1025
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:37,000
reboot series kind of seems to handle the animal rights theme a lot better than this

1026
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:43,240
one does. So, you know, I mean, between the original series and the more recent one,

1027
01:11:43,440 --> 01:11:48,800
they like both series tackle these subjects better and more in a more

1028
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:50,960
complicated way than Tim Burton's film does.

1029
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:54,160
Yeah, it does get lost in the shuffle.

1030
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:57,600
I'm sorry, would you say it really does get lost in the shuffle?

1031
01:11:57,800 --> 01:11:59,920
Yeah, it's kind of the odd man out.

1032
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:04,360
Yeah, understandably, because it doesn't really have a lot of insight to say.

1033
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:08,080
I do think like the evolution theme is kind of interesting.

1034
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:11,880
It's all implicit. Like they don't really, like, you know,

1035
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:17,160
focus on that subject too much, but just like, you know, the like Mark Wahlberg says

1036
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:21,080
something about a monkey and then one of the ape says, like, oh, no, like, we're

1037
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:25,040
above monkeys in the evolutionary ladder and monkeys are just above humans.

1038
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:28,200
So that's like, you know, that aspect is kind of compelling.

1039
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:34,600
And I think that leads into the question of bestiality and like interspecies sex

1040
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:39,480
because there is a kind of a love triangle between Mark Wahlberg,

1041
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:43,240
the ape Helena Bonham Carter and Estella Warren.

1042
01:12:43,440 --> 01:12:47,040
So I like, you know, the producers wanted to cut that entirely out of the movie

1043
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:48,000
because they were like, it's weird.

1044
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:51,520
We don't want to like even approach that or whatever, which is sort of understandable.

1045
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:55,160
But I think it's actually one of the more interesting parts of the Tim Burton movie.

1046
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,040
They like they just kind of like drop a ball on that.

1047
01:12:58,040 --> 01:12:59,680
They're like, we don't know how to resolve this.

1048
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:02,200
So we're just going to like it's going to fizzle out basically.

1049
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:07,200
But, you know, like some of the some of those like love triangle dynamics

1050
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:11,160
between those three characters and like, is this bestiality?

1051
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:14,880
Is it not like, you know, what are the ethical sort of?

1052
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:16,520
I mean, it's bestiality is bad.

1053
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,160
Don't get me wrong. But like in this movie, like

1054
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:21,480
it's just kind of an interesting gray area.

1055
01:13:21,480 --> 01:13:23,040
But then the movie doesn't know what to do with that.

1056
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:25,200
You know, 100 percent.

1057
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:26,560
That's going to be my breakdown.

1058
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:31,840
I'm going to address that more in depth before Naomi comes on with the form and

1059
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:36,600
aesthetic, I just had a I just want to theorize a little bit about my own

1060
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:43,520
philosophy of art making with genre storytelling that this movie made me think about.

1061
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,520
OK, so some I'll just read what I wrote.

1062
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:48,400
Something I'm ruminating on is how this

1063
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:52,480
movie feels like an action adventure first and a drama second,

1064
01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:56,760
contrasted with the 68, which feels the other way around.

1065
01:13:57,680 --> 01:13:59,760
For me, when I approach genre

1066
01:13:59,960 --> 01:14:06,760
storytelling as a playwright or or I guess just a writer in general,

1067
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:11,760
no matter how big the spectacle and I love action adventure.

1068
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:17,800
I want to I want to ground it in honest characters who like.

1069
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:19,680
It's the characters that we're invested

1070
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:24,640
in ultimately as as observers and to me, the spectacle comes second.

1071
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:26,960
And then you're going to get the best of everything.

1072
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:32,960
But this movie strikes me as we just want the action, the adventure, the makeup.

1073
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:34,640
And we're not going to spend the time

1074
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:39,000
to do the character work that I think it could have had.

1075
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:40,960
Yeah, I totally agree with that.

1076
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:43,120
It's an interesting question about genre

1077
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:48,680
storytelling and how you balance all those different aspects of of making a genre

1078
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:51,120
movie or telling a genre story.

1079
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:53,440
One example that comes to mind recently,

1080
01:14:53,440 --> 01:14:57,480
a movie that I liked a lot is Barbarian, the horror movie from a couple of years ago.

1081
01:14:57,680 --> 01:14:58,760
Horror is my genre.

1082
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:01,400
That's my favorite genre, maybe a little bit more than science fiction.

1083
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:04,080
And I think Barbarian does a fantastic job

1084
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:08,560
of telling a story with characters that we are invested in, like especially

1085
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:13,120
the first half an hour, we really we can't wait to see what happens because we're so

1086
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:17,600
invested in them and the like at the same time, the movie tackles themes about

1087
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:22,800
gender dynamics, kind of urban sprawl, you know, rust belt cities like Detroit

1088
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,840
where Barbarian is set and it's genuinely scary.

1089
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:27,520
Like that is a great piece of genre

1090
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:31,920
filmmaking, I think, because it balances all those different things very well.

1091
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:33,160
To your point, Vincent.

1092
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:34,240
And yeah, you're right.

1093
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:36,880
Like Planet of the Apes does not really know how to do that.

1094
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:41,760
Maybe it didn't really have like the time or the interest to like really go deep

1095
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:44,680
into all these like themes and characters and everything.

1096
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:47,360
But everything feels kind of flat.

1097
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:50,760
Like they don't really focus on boosting all those elements.

1098
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:52,320
So it just kind of falls flat.

1099
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:53,360
Yeah.

1100
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:57,280
Well, in the next 10 minutes here, let's get into our breakdowns.

1101
01:15:57,480 --> 01:15:58,520
Yeah, for sure.

1102
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:03,080
You know, I kind of foolishly brought a lot of this up when we were talking to Naomi.

1103
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:05,960
But, you know, I do feel like it's kind

1104
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:10,840
of like a product of another era of movie making, like and I fully recognize a lot

1105
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:14,480
of this is just nostalgia, you know, I was like a perfect age in 2001,

1106
01:16:14,480 --> 01:16:20,320
like junior in high school, but I do love that Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes

1107
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:22,400
favors makeup over CGI.

1108
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:25,360
Rick Baker's makeup effects are very, very strong.

1109
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:30,560
I think later in his career, Burton has a tendency to kind of just like rely on CGI

1110
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:32,200
like 98 percent of the time.

1111
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:33,720
And usually it doesn't look all that good.

1112
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:37,640
Like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Alice in Wonderland and movies like that.

1113
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:40,400
Just look, you know, they're like watching a screensaver.

1114
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:41,560
It's so uninteresting.

1115
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:45,800
So I love the practical effect approach to Planet of the Apes.

1116
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:49,160
You know, again, I do think some of the performances are pretty strong.

1117
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:51,120
I like Helena Bonham Carter in this movie.

1118
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:53,720
I think Tim Roth is a very, very good villain.

1119
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,920
And it kind of just sounds like an innocence that I kind of like.

1120
01:16:56,920 --> 01:17:01,600
I mean, we talked about that when we had the episode about the mummy a while back.

1121
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:04,200
I think it's, you know,

1122
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:06,360
it's both a good and a bad thing, of course.

1123
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:09,840
Like if this movie was a little bit more serious, complex, interesting,

1124
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:13,880
I had like a more distinct vision that obviously would be preferable.

1125
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:18,760
But it's kind of just like an action adventure movie where Mark Wahlberg is

1126
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:20,680
running around on an ape planet.

1127
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:24,640
And I'm never going to totally hate a movie where that's like the main storyline.

1128
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:26,560
You know, OK, that's a good point.

1129
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:29,240
Had this movie just been called something else,

1130
01:17:29,440 --> 01:17:31,640
we might feel very differently about it.

1131
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:35,560
Yeah, it reminds me, I didn't actually see this movie, but I think you saw it,

1132
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:39,440
that Adam Driver, Adam Driver movie, where he is like on a different planet,

1133
01:17:39,440 --> 01:17:43,120
like or maybe he goes back in time and he's like killing dinosaurs.

1134
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:44,720
Right. Yeah. 65.

1135
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:46,880
Yeah. But see, they didn't call it like

1136
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:50,480
Jurassic Park or Jurassic World.

1137
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:52,040
No, it was just its own thing.

1138
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:54,960
So that's an interesting theory there.

1139
01:17:55,160 --> 01:17:57,720
I like that. Yeah, yeah.

1140
01:17:57,920 --> 01:17:59,560
That's all I got for the good stuff.

1141
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:01,800
I have even less.

1142
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:04,200
That's the performances.

1143
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:07,040
I think Paul Giamatti steals the show.

1144
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:12,800
Great character actor, just chewing the scenery, but also like he's making sense

1145
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,840
of some really tough dialogue, some really corny jokes.

1146
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:19,800
He somehow pulls them off barely.

1147
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:25,160
Like there's a line when he says, can't we all just get along?

1148
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:27,360
It's so dumb.

1149
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:33,480
But he like he knows it's a dumb line as the actor, so he just kind of gives it is

1150
01:18:33,480 --> 01:18:38,600
all he said that W.C. Fields was a big inspiration for his performance in this

1151
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:42,080
movie, which is fascinating. You can kind of see it, I think.

1152
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:43,080
Yeah.

1153
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:45,520
He also has another that this can't be.

1154
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:46,800
So I'll hold off.

1155
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,840
But I think Michael Clarke Duncan gives a really good performance

1156
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:54,400
and the actor, he's a I forget the actor's name.

1157
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:59,680
He's he plays the gorilla who's sort of the foil to Mark Michael Clarke Duncan.

1158
01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:03,240
He's like an older gorilla general who's now retired.

1159
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:07,240
You know, is that actor I think is a really heartfelt performance.

1160
01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:09,720
It's like a really earn it a sincere performance.

1161
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:10,680
So that was really good.

1162
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:15,760
Yeah, I think the performances, at least the supporting cast.

1163
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:16,800
Are good.

1164
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:18,080
Yeah, I agree.

1165
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:22,400
I think Carrie Hiroyuki Tagawa is that actor's name.

1166
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:25,640
Yeah, the performances are overall are pretty strong.

1167
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:29,000
And again, I'll just say this.

1168
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:30,400
I don't know.

1169
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:33,200
I'll save it for the bad category. Sorry.

1170
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:37,720
OK, well, we could we could segue.

1171
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:39,320
Yeah, sure.

1172
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:41,800
I mean, like, oh, sorry.

1173
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:43,040
What I was going to say is that I feel

1174
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:46,960
like this movie is like a weird fulcrum in Tim Burton's career.

1175
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:48,040
Like everything up to this.

1176
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:50,960
Most things up to this are pretty good, pretty strong.

1177
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:55,440
He has like a clear vision, a lot of like whimsy, a lot of dark humor, stuff like that.

1178
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:59,360
I think really his career takes a downturn

1179
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:02,160
after or maybe starting with Planet of the Apes.

1180
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:04,720
I'm not a big, big fish fan.

1181
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:07,400
I said that word. I don't love the movie Big Fish.

1182
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:11,320
That was his next movie after Planet of the Apes.

1183
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:16,080
And then, you know, again, he makes a lot of kind of like blockbuster CGI heavy.

1184
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:18,080
He kind of like turns himself into a brand.

1185
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:19,920
I think he's kind of sold out a little bit.

1186
01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:21,640
So I just think this movie came out

1187
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:24,720
like an interesting time in his career, like.

1188
01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:28,880
Is it the first bad movie of like the latter part of his career?

1189
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:32,560
Is it like leaning in that direction, but like not terrible on its own?

1190
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:34,480
I don't know.

1191
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:38,040
May anyway, I'm getting off topic.

1192
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:40,320
There's a lot of bad stuff to this movie for sure.

1193
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:41,680
It doesn't really know what it's trying to say.

1194
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,400
It doesn't have a clear, distinct vision of its own.

1195
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:46,360
The characters are pretty thin.

1196
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:49,520
The plot doesn't make a lot of sense, especially that twist ending,

1197
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:53,280
which, by the way, I'm kind of OK with if they're just like trying to set up

1198
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:56,200
like a cliffhanger, I don't think it totally has to make all the sense

1199
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:58,640
in the world, but still, it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

1200
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:02,760
Yeah, there's a lot of bad stuff about this movie for sure.

1201
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:04,520
The twist ending.

1202
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:05,800
I don't.

1203
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:10,880
Again, I don't think it makes sense with the story,

1204
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:14,120
but I also by the end just didn't care.

1205
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:20,640
Yeah, I was like, OK, well, hey, at least this is the one visually

1206
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:23,440
interesting thing, set piece of the movie.

1207
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:24,840
Yes. Great.

1208
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:25,880
Yeah.

1209
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:30,760
And even when all the when all the cops drive up and they're all apes,

1210
01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:33,360
of course, but they're wearing police uniforms, that's pretty fun.

1211
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:33,880
It's cool.

1212
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:34,720
Yeah.

1213
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:37,160
Now, if only they'd been playing baseball.

1214
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:38,000
I know.

1215
01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:38,600
Yeah.

1216
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:41,880
At least that's not the ending they use.

1217
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:43,360
Who knows? Maybe that would have been better.

1218
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:43,680
I don't know.

1219
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:46,160
There was at one point an ending talked

1220
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:50,920
about where he would crash land at the end in Yankee Stadium.

1221
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:54,680
And there would be a baseball game of apes happening.

1222
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:59,720
Why? Why is that such a thing that the executives wanted?

1223
01:21:59,920 --> 01:22:00,640
Yeah.

1224
01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:04,400
I feel like it was this one producer who, like, fixated on that idea.

1225
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:06,120
And you guys are going to love it.

1226
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:08,520
This is the one thing we have to have.

1227
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:11,640
They even fired the writer because he didn't include it.

1228
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:12,880
That's so ridiculous.

1229
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:14,200
I love that.

1230
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:16,440
That was stupid.

1231
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:18,360
OK.

1232
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:22,240
All right. I'll pick one bad thing just for the sake of time here.

1233
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:24,640
Well, I don't love.

1234
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:25,600
OK. OK.

1235
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:27,200
OK. OK. One bad thing.

1236
01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:33,960
This love triangle between Estella Warren, Mark Wahlberg and Helena Bonham Carter.

1237
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:40,160
It's fine as an idea to play, but

1238
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:42,320
it's not acted well.

1239
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:44,120
It's not convincingly sold.

1240
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:47,480
So Estella Warren plays Dana.

1241
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:48,880
I think that's her name.

1242
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:49,920
It doesn't matter.

1243
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:53,800
She is like making eyes at Mark Wahlberg this whole time.

1244
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:57,920
So visually, the camera is telling us she is in love with Mark Wahlberg.

1245
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:02,720
Mark Wahlberg doesn't give a rip about her at all.

1246
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:06,480
No, and he doesn't even like he's the hidden.

1247
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:11,080
He doesn't fall in love with with Aria or Helena Bonham Carter.

1248
01:23:11,280 --> 01:23:12,400
Like he is.

1249
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:15,840
And he is a nonsexual person in this movie.

1250
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:19,280
And Helena Bonham Carter does not like she

1251
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:22,320
might find him cute or whatever, but like there's no love there.

1252
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:31,760
Really, it's just Dana pining over Mark Wahlberg and like being rude and caddy.

1253
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:36,160
To Helena Bonham Carter, it's just like this cat fight energy that I hated.

1254
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:38,000
I was like, what is this?

1255
01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:39,560
This.

1256
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:41,600
This is such middle school energy.

1257
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:43,560
And then the payoff is zilch.

1258
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:46,960
And it's just why did why did we waste our time with that?

1259
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,920
That romance that went nowhere.

1260
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:53,720
Interesting. Yeah, we slightly disagree on this.

1261
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:55,720
I mean, you're right about most of it.

1262
01:23:55,920 --> 01:24:00,800
Like the characters are too thin to make any of those relationships interesting

1263
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:05,920
or compelling at all. The story just like abandons it.

1264
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:08,880
Mark Wahlberg's character only wants to get off the planet.

1265
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:11,840
That's like his only motivation throughout this entire movie.

1266
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:14,040
And yet is like just the concept,

1267
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:17,920
especially from like an evolutionary standpoint of like, you know,

1268
01:24:18,120 --> 01:24:23,600
if like an evolved talking human like ape and an actual human loved each other,

1269
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:27,280
what what would be the specifics there?

1270
01:24:27,480 --> 01:24:30,280
You know, like thematically, I have to say,

1271
01:24:30,480 --> 01:24:36,000
like sexually and just like morally like there are a lot of questions that begin

1272
01:24:36,200 --> 01:24:41,080
to be posed that the movie then is just like too cowardly to be like, oh, never mind.

1273
01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:42,480
We're not going to like deal with this at all.

1274
01:24:42,480 --> 01:24:44,760
So, yeah, it's a it's a it's a flaw.

1275
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:46,200
It's a bad part of the movie.

1276
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:48,960
And yet it's one of the few interesting things about it.

1277
01:24:49,160 --> 01:24:53,200
If like if you kind of pick up what the movie is kind of like throwing at you,

1278
01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:55,960
then it could be an interesting thing to think about.

1279
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:59,080
But the movie doesn't do that work itself, you know.

1280
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:01,880
Yeah, well said.

1281
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:03,920
Yeah, I have a perverse mind.

1282
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:07,680
Human names. Yeah, it gets me.

1283
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:10,760
Yeah, I'm picking up what you're throwing down.

1284
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:12,480
What are some campy things?

1285
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:16,520
Well, you know, I guess like the example that I'll bring up, like, you know,

1286
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:20,880
Leo, the Mark Wahlberg character becomes like this messiah and all the human

1287
01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:25,080
characters like flock to this kind of desert outpost where he's just trying to

1288
01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:27,040
get off the planet again, he doesn't care about them at all.

1289
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:31,880
But like there are some pretty campy, cheesy, ridiculous shots of like, you know,

1290
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:36,000
all these human characters who are like gazing at him in awe as if he's going to

1291
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:41,120
be their savior, and that's just like such a cliche from like so many, you know,

1292
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:43,040
science fiction, fantasy movies.

1293
01:25:43,240 --> 01:25:45,640
I mean, Dune comes to mind right away.

1294
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:47,400
And it's I don't know.

1295
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:48,760
It's pretty ridiculous in this movie

1296
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:51,960
because like Mark Wahlberg's character is like not even a character.

1297
01:25:52,160 --> 01:25:54,120
There's no depth or substance to him.

1298
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:56,800
So that's the example that I'll come up with.

1299
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:01,520
It's like at the moment I saw that I was like, oh, this is such a cliche, man.

1300
01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:04,240
My campy is also a cliched and involves

1301
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:07,040
Mark Wahlberg in the beginning of the movies.

1302
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:09,760
That's great. We're going to book in the movie here in the beginning.

1303
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:12,880
He's this hot shot like pilot.

1304
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:15,400
You know, he's he's a he's a loose cannon.

1305
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:18,880
He's given his his his higher up a lot of guff.

1306
01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:21,440
He's like, let me do the mission. Let me do my job.

1307
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:24,640
You're going to send a monkey to do a man's job.

1308
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:27,120
I'm like, whoa, slow your roll.

1309
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:32,560
You are not a cadet in in Top Gun training school right now.

1310
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:37,320
Like I would hope at this point in your career, you have a level head, sir,

1311
01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:42,280
because you wouldn't have made it up the ranks with this attitude.

1312
01:26:42,480 --> 01:26:44,440
Yeah, that's a good point.

1313
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:48,080
And then like the things that it sets in motion, like the time warp.

1314
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:53,080
And then like the his ship goes after him and that goes disastrously or I like

1315
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:58,080
his, you know, his rogue attitude really has like disastrous consequences in this

1316
01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:01,720
movie and and I get that the movie I know what it's doing.

1317
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:03,560
It's an archetype. Right.

1318
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,280
But it just it's so heavy handed.

1319
01:27:06,480 --> 01:27:09,360
We have no basis for this character.

1320
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:13,560
We just like can we get camera and just breathe right now?

1321
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:16,800
Yeah.

1322
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:21,600
But yeah, I mean, like nothing anybody does makes any sense, like which again,

1323
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:25,160
I think is like because of the fact that the screenwriters were like writing it as

1324
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:30,520
they were shooting it, so I'm not trying to like give it too much of a pass.

1325
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:32,480
Like it's definitely a very messy,

1326
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:36,520
unenvolving movie with a lot of ridiculous behavior for sure.

1327
01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:39,880
All right. On that, let's give it our final rating.

1328
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:42,560
All right. So as always, on Camp Kaiju,

1329
01:27:42,760 --> 01:27:46,320
our rating system is number one, it's a timeless classic and definitely

1330
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:50,440
stands the test of time, number two, there may be some antiquated moments,

1331
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:53,480
but overall it's great and stands the test of time.

1332
01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:55,840
Number three, it may be historically

1333
01:27:56,040 --> 01:27:59,680
significant or just fun, but it does not stand the test of time.

1334
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:03,640
And our lowest rating, it is not worth revisiting and definitely

1335
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:05,920
does not stand the test of time.

1336
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:08,160
I'm not going to give this the lowest rating.

1337
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:09,800
There are some things I like about it.

1338
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:13,000
Maybe it's just nostalgia value,

1339
01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:14,520
but it's definitely not a good movie.

1340
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:18,320
So I'm going to say it may be historically significant or just fun,

1341
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:21,120
but it does not stand the test of time.

1342
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:22,800
It's entertaining at times.

1343
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:25,920
Love the makeup effects, but it does not.

1344
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:27,640
Yeah. I mean, especially with so many good

1345
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:31,600
Planet of the Apes movies, which admittedly I have to explore a little bit more.

1346
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:34,400
You have better options out there.

1347
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:39,920
Yeah, I may have agreed with you last year, but the fact that I

1348
01:28:40,120 --> 01:28:45,280
really struggled to get through a rewatch just this week, I think is telling.

1349
01:28:45,480 --> 01:28:50,440
And I think compared to the other Apes and eight movies in the franchise.

1350
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:55,560
Like, watch this movie just so you know how good the other ones are,

1351
01:28:55,560 --> 01:28:59,840
but on its own, I don't think it's historically significant.

1352
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:07,160
And I don't think it is fun enough to spend two hours with.

1353
01:29:07,360 --> 01:29:11,000
So I don't think it stands the test of time at all.

1354
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:14,000
And it's not worth revisiting, right?

1355
01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:16,040
No, no. Watch it once.

1356
01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:17,000
Put it away.

1357
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:17,920
Okay.

1358
01:29:18,120 --> 01:29:20,280
So you're giving it our lowest rating.

1359
01:29:20,480 --> 01:29:21,000
I am.

1360
01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:22,000
Wow.

1361
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:26,960
I think maybe Kildozer is the only movie I've given our lowest rating so far.

1362
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:29,440
There might be some others, but that's the one that stands out to me.

1363
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:31,680
Jaws, the revenge.

1364
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:34,400
I think I also gave the lowest rating.

1365
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:36,480
Yeah, that's a bad movie.

1366
01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:38,320
At least it's entertaining at times.

1367
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:40,240
Jurassic World Dominion.

1368
01:29:40,440 --> 01:29:41,880
I gave the lowest rating.

1369
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:42,880
Yeah.

1370
01:29:43,080 --> 01:29:44,520
Sorry again.

1371
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:48,000
I didn't mean to cut you off there, but that's deserving of that for sure.

1372
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:50,800
I might have given that the lowest rating, too.

1373
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:52,080
I hope I did.

1374
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:53,160
Yeah.

1375
01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:54,400
Or to the archives.

1376
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:58,200
I would be puzzled if I didn't give it the lowest rating.

1377
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:00,280
What was I thinking?

1378
01:30:00,480 --> 01:30:01,920
All right, everybody.

1379
01:30:02,120 --> 01:30:04,480
Thank you for joining us here on Camp Kaiju.

1380
01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:09,440
We will see you next time for the relic and we'll see you then, too.

1381
01:30:09,440 --> 01:30:10,440
We'll hear from you.

1382
01:30:10,440 --> 01:30:13,320
So please rate and review wherever you listen to Camp Kaiju.

1383
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:15,280
You can also share this podcast with a friend.

1384
01:30:15,480 --> 01:30:19,560
Send us listener comments at campkaiju.gmail.com, our Facebook page,

1385
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:23,440
our Instagram links are in our show description.

1386
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:25,560
Or if you're feeling rather adventurous

1387
01:30:25,760 --> 01:30:32,040
yourself, leave us a featured voicemail at 612-470-2612, telling us about your

1388
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:35,400
favorite monster movies and memories, please check out our website,

1389
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:38,240
CampKaijuPodcast.com for more information.

1390
01:30:38,440 --> 01:30:40,800
Camp Kaiju is recorded in Minneapolis,

1391
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:44,080
St. Paul with Menia's mailbox music by Ben Cook-Felts.

1392
01:30:44,280 --> 01:30:45,080
Thanks, friends.

1393
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:48,040
And until next time, stay campy.

1394
01:30:48,040 --> 01:30:50,000
Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach Linder

1395
01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:53,440
and the Zach Pack powered by Coldwell Banker Realty, your source for real

1396
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:57,800
estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients and residential buyers.

1397
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:00,680
Reach out to the Zach Pack today for real estate services.

1398
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:03,120
Follow the Zach Pack on social media and

1399
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:06,000
contact the Zach Pack for investment opportunities.

1400
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:10,280
Links in the show description.

1401
01:31:10,480 --> 01:31:13,240
I promised my niece a pen for her birthday.

1402
01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:14,480
Excellent.

1403
01:31:14,480 --> 01:31:18,120
Oh, the little ones make wonderful fetch.

1404
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:21,360
But be sure you get rid of it by puberty.

1405
01:31:21,360 --> 01:31:45,040
The one thing you don't want in your house is a human teenager.