Welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Podcast. We're your hosts, Vincent Hannum and Matt
Levine. And we're talking about all our favorite monster movies, The Good, The Bad and The
Downright Campy and asking if they stand the test of time. Traditional Kaiju creature features
space invaders, the supernatural and everything in between. All strange beasts welcome here.
Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack powered by Coldwell Banker Realty,
your source for real estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients and residential
buyers. Reach out to the Zach Pack today for real estate services. Follow the Zach Pack
on social media and contact the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Links in the
show notes.
History
here any longer, you can't tell who'll be next.
Ooh, boy, is it a full moon out tonight? I sure hope so, because we are talking about not just any
werewolf movie, but the one that started it all for all intents and purposes. 1941's The Wolfman
from Universal Studios starring Lon Chaney Jr. and a whole host of other legendary horror film
stars, but this is Chaney's picture. And Matt, we're excited to welcome Brian Rodriguez as our
guest host for this episode. Hey, Brian. Hey, thanks for having me. Hi, Brian. And Brian,
can you introduce yourself and what you got going on in the universal, in the world of
Universal Studios? Yeah, so I started a page back in 2015 called Uni Monsters, and it's a page just
dedicated to the love of these classic, classic horror films of the early ages of film. And I
specifically loved The Wolfman growing up. And so in 2015 ish, I was just like, you know what, I
wonder if there's people that love all this stuff as much as I do. So let's see, let's test the the
waters and see where this goes. And there's no really hope in it. I was just like, you know,
let's just do it for me just for the fun of it. And it's grown into this massive thing with, you
know, tons of followers, tons of opportunity. And that's over on Instagram at uni monsters. So it's
been a blast just sharing like the classic universal monsters posts and reels and collaborations with
other pages. It's it's nice to see that there's more people out there like me. I love that. That's
basically how Camp Kaiju started. In 2020 depths of the pandemic, I got into one of my Kaiju kicks
and realized, you know what, I wonder if they're not, not exactly I wondered if other people were
out there, I just like wanted to talk to other people about these movies, and, and create that
community. But of course, I love other monster movies. So Camp Kaiju just kind of expanded the
definition of monster movies. I feel like it's a community that just loves to talk loves to share
their ideas and their love for these movies, you know, like, every person that I've talked to,
whether it's on the podcast, or just like at G Fest in Chicago, which Vincent and I went to a couple
years ago, you can just sense the enthusiasm, like, you know, kind of like you said, Brian,
like we're just in it for the love of the movies. And that's, that's great leads to a lot of awesome
conversations for sure. Yeah, it's not something that like, you probably talked too much about
with family over dinner table. And you're just kind of like, you're holding it in you want to,
but it's nice to find like the fellow monster fan out there and just kind of like, be able to
name the names and gush about all this stuff. For sure. Yeah, yeah. And that's, again, that's why
I'm just so excited to talk about the Wolfman because it's one of it's one of the big ones.
But before we get into all that, we have some nuts and bolts here on Camp Kaiju. We want to thank
you all the listeners for joining us on this conversation. Please rate and review wherever
you listen on Apple, Apple podcasts, Spotify, if you're listening to us right now, go ahead
and leave us a positive review. You can also send us listener comments at campkaiju.gmail.com,
our Facebook page, Instagram, YouTube. You can even leave a featured you can even leave a voicemail
on the show at 612-470-2612 telling us about your favorite monster movies,
your own memories with the Wolfman and other universal monsters.
And you can check out our website campkaijupodcast.com for more reviews and special content.
Big shout out to our patrons, Jason, Chris, Sean, our anonymous patron and Peggy. We really hope you
enjoy this one. And we do have some comments in the bank that we will read later on the show.
So yeah, some good things coming up. Sorry, Vincent, a quick question. Have you
have you gotten any more voicemails since the last episode? No. All right. For some reason,
that's the thing that I'm most excited about. I really hope that somebody leaves a comment
for you at some point. So I'm like every recording, I'm just going to like wait and hope that it
happens. But hasn't happened yet. People don't let Matt down.
And, you know, like a sincere, genuine voicemail would be great also. But if you want to prank
Vincent, that would be almost as good in my opinion. Thank you, Matt. Yeah. Well, the lines are
open. OK, what has happened since last time we we came at you on the airwaves here?
I thought this was interesting. Variety magazine dropped their list of 100 greatest horror movies.
I think they've seen it previous years before. I haven't got to check time to check out this latest
one, though. I've glanced at it. It's a good list. I like the, you know, the top 10 or so, all
definite classics, some of my favorites as well. There are some on the list that I haven't seen
yet. I would like to consider myself a horror completionist. I would like to be a horror
completionist. So, you know, I have my work cut out for me, but it's a good list. Yeah. Yeah.
And at number 81 is The Wolfman, 1941. So I just wanted to shout that out.
That's way, way too low. Way too low. It should be a little bit higher, I think.
Yeah, agreed. I love all the monsters, but I don't love them all equally. I will say The Wolfman
is higher on my tier than The Mummy and The Mummy, I think, ranked in the top 20. So I was like,
I might flip that with The Wolfman on this list, but that's just me.
Yeah, I feel like maybe that's grading it more on like, well, I was going to say cultural impact,
but The Wolfman has had a huge cultural impact as well in like every werewolf movie made ever
since. So yeah, so I kind of take that back. But I'm with you, Vincent. Like, Bride of Frankenstein
is my personal favorite Universal monster movie, but The Wolfman is probably number two.
Nice. This is a great segue. Brian, what are what are your favorite monster movies,
Universal or not? Oh, man. I mean, a lot of them are definitely Universal, just because
that's what I love. It's got to be Bride of Frankenstein. Bride of Frankenstein has to be
up there on like all the technical aspects, all the, you know, the themes and the story and
everything. But my number one film of all time is actually The Wolfman. So I have to go with that.
But Bride is definitely a second that I understand is like, you know, I think that technically the
better film, but it's up there. The one that surprises people is I say Dracula is actually not
in my top five Universal monster movies. So it's actually it goes Wolfman, Bride of Frankenstein.
I think it's got to be Invisible Man, Frankenstein 1931. And then Frankenstein meets The Wolfman is
just that film that I think like it gets people really into the fun of it. It's not it's not too
serious. Yeah, I'm totally with you. I think well, we'll talk about personal histories with
the Wolfman, but the Wolfman has long been number two. I've been a Frankenstein Wolfman guy. Same.
And I put The Invisible Man number three. Oh, and the creature. Can't forget the Gill Man.
We have extremely like minded top fives for Universal monster movies. Mine are very, very
similar. So happy to hear it. And Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein. Oh, yeah, that's just
the best. You've got everyone in that one. Son of Frankenstein, slightly underrated, in my opinion.
Love that as well. We the list goes on and on, you know.
All right, this is me now trying to get us back on track. So this month in monster movie history,
it's October. Brian, this is where there's like a list of films that, you know, were released this
month. We always just pick one to shout out. So if there's one on that little list that you wanted to
shout out, you can do that. Yeah, I think it's definitely Candyman. I mean, that's just like
one of those key horror films that I think everybody should watch, especially from the
era that came out. And it was just like it's kind of like the unique horror film of that decade,
because there wasn't very much going on in the 90s. But I think Candyman is one of those standout
kind of like influential films that that really had a lot behind it. I'm really glad you say that.
I haven't seen it yet, but it's it's recently crossed my radar as a cultural touchstone.
So yeah, cool. What about you, Matt?
Well, first, just let me say that I also love Candyman. Happy to hear that you like it also,
Brian, and the remake from a couple of years ago was better than I expected as well.
There are definitely some classics on this list, not surprisingly, classic horror movies that came
out in the month of October. I think I'm going to go all the way back to 1932 with The Old Dark
House by James Whale, who we were kind of indirectly just talking about because he directed
the original Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, a lot of other movies as well. But The Old Dark
House before Bride of Frankenstein, I think kind of nails the blend of comedy and horror
and the technical kind of prowess that he would bring to Bride of Frankenstein a couple years later.
Short, it's kind of a classic haunted house story, but there's so much more to it. So,
yeah, definitely check that out. The Old Dark House by James Whale is great.
I will shout out The Black Scorpion from 1955. This is a movie I saw recently.
It is a big bug movie from the 50s. But the scorpions are animated by Willis O'Brien,
the man behind King Kong and Ray Harryhausen's mentor. And I just realized the actor who stars
in that is Richard Denning, and he was the husband of Evelyn Anchors, who stars in The Wolfman.
So there you go.
It's always a small world. Like when we do these podcast recordings, just like unexpected
connections between like modern movies and like whatever we're talking about and just like,
the whole world of horror cinema. It's great. I love it.
And I believe he was in Creature from the Black Lagoon.
Definitely. He was the hot headed rival for the for the woman's affections. Yeah.
That film celebrating its 70th anniversary this year, which is wild. No. Yeah, 70 years.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, speaking of the Creature from the Black Lagoon, so
I just happen to see it's playing at select Alamo draft houses the last weekend of October
in 3D. So if you have an Alamo draft house in your area,
just go see it, please.
We're always showing some great stuff over there.
Yeah. And for local folks here in the Twin Cities, the uninvited, a superb haunted house ghost story
from the 40s is playing at the Heights Theater in Minneapolis on Monday. Well, this coming. Well,
yeah, Monday, October 28th. That's one of my favorite non-monster classic Hollywood horror
movies. The effects in that are fantastic. And it's still genuinely scary. I've seen that movie a
couple of times and chills me to the bone. It's great.
I have a funny story about that, actually. I was watching that film
probably about, I think it had to be 2020. And I was just watching it at night and I was just like
putting on the Criterion Blu-ray version that was actually beautiful. And I just put the disc into
my player and I'm just like watching it in the dark. And suddenly everything just shuts off during
like a scene where like some of the spirit, like the spirit was communicating and stuff. And I was
just like, all right, time for bed after that. That's it. I think that's time to go to bed.
That's it. I think that's time to call it quits. Maybe I'll finish the rest of the morning.
Wow. Perfect timing, man.
I love that. Oh, that's spooky.
And yeah, I mean, again, like there are some really creepy shots in that movie. So I feel
like I can picture the exact moment that all the lights went off and like the power went off
wherever you were watching it. Like I feel like I know like the scariest part of the movie, you know?
Yeah. Well, coming up on Camp Kaiju, not a noted classic, but we're having another special Magic
and Monsters episode where I represent Camp Kaiju and and Patrick Kazaki. You know, he likes to
guest on Camp Kaiju and he has his own podcast, Gaze Do the D, where they talk about Disney things
and Disney movies. Well, he and I have recorded a special episode on the Sony Marvel movie,
Morbius, actually well known for not being a good movie. In fact, it's it's kind of terrible. But
in that we have fun just with a little episode. So you can expect that next week. And then
our following getting back to our regular programming is God told me to. And Matt,
this was your pick. Can you expand on that a little bit? Yeah, for sure. I kind of intentionally
chose a movie that I don't really know very well. I've never seen it before, which is always kind
of a risk, but it can pay off sometimes. It's directed by Larry Cohen, who's a director I like
a lot. He directed the stuff. It's alive. Q, the winged serpent, some other really good sort of
campy, but also like, you know, legitimately well made horror movies. And God told me to is kind of
a satire of like religious cults. And as far as I know, like the figurehead of the cult in this movie
is sort of like an alien monster, essentially. That's all I know about it. So we'll see how it
is kind of a shot in the dark. I apologize in advance if it's really, really bad, because that
could be. We could just call this Matt's mystery picks. We never know what we're going to get.
Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I would lead us astray, but I like that idea.
Okay, I'm all for it. I'm excited for God told me to. And then we're going to follow that up with
another God movie, Godzilla minus one. Which I just heard is going to be re released in US cinemas
November 1st. So if you didn't get a chance to catch it last year like me, well, now's your chance.
Maybe because this is the 70th anniversary of the original Godzilla. I would assume that's probably
why or the year as a whole is the anniversary. Yeah, and actually almost to the day the original
was released November 3rd. Oh, yeah, I'm sure that's why that. All right, let's get down to
some more humanoid monsters. The Wolfman. What are our personal histories with this film? Early on,
I saw this on AMC. AMC is doing their fear fest or they do that thing where they just show a bunch
of horror movies during October. Yeah, right. Fest or the yeah, fear fest, something like that.
And back in the day when I was in like fifth grade in, that was like elementary school. I was just
like, they're showing the movies like slasher movies and all that. But in the mornings, they
would show classic universal monster movies. And so I would kind of just wake up early in the morning
on the weekends and watch some of those. And one of the first ones I saw was the Wolfman. And it
really just like spoke to me as a fifth grader who, you know, was, I think his body was starting to
change and there's some kind of like parallels you can draw there maybe with, you know, puberty and
this whole Wolfman thing. But yeah, I really loved them. And no one in my family was like showing me
these movies. I was just like drawn to them on my own for some reason. And that's kind of where it
all started for me. That's awesome. I had seen this movie quite a while ago. I feel like maybe like
15 years ago and I hadn't seen it since then. I liked it a lot, of course, when I first saw it.
But I guess at the time, like universal classic monster movies weren't something that I grabbed
it's something that I gravitated towards. And like I like gotten more into them and like horror I've
like really embraced over the years. So to be totally honest, like I had only seen this movie
once before rewatching it for this recording. And I knew I liked it. I did not remember liking it as
much as I did this time around. Nice. I don't remember not ever knowing about this movie. So
I was definitely in elementary school as well. And I remember playing on AMC and I recorded it.
I remember being the Wolfman for Halloween one year when I was definitely younger than 10.
We got a bunch of, you know, fake hair and you spirit gum all over my body. I remember that.
And now I'm like, huh, maybe I can relate to Lon Chaney's process there. But anytime I was sick
in school, like elementary school, I got to stay home on my recorded tapes, I would always play
Frankenstein, the Wolfman, and then Frankenstein meets the Wolfman. And then my mom would come
home and that was my day. So it didn't happen a lot, but a few times I was like, those were my go
to monster movies. I love that story. It's like a formative influence for you. Yeah, but I hadn't
seen it. The last time I saw it was 2020. So it had been a few years and yeah, it was nice to
revisit it as an older person now, because I think some of the themes change. Or certainly,
I'm definitely relating to different things now as I was, you know, as a fifth grader.
The lion.
When this dead hand moves, the monster created by a man they called mad is turned loose to
strike terror into the hearts of men, to shock women into uncontrolled hysteria,
to prey upon the innocence of children. This is the story you've heard about, talked about,
the spine tingling, blood chilling story that stunned your emotions. Frankenstein.
The nation's top comics, Abbot and Costello petrified, but hilariously.
Plus the dangerous and terrifying Wolfman played by Lon Chaney. Plus that theme
that fiend out of a nightmare, the vampire Batman Count Dracula played by Bela Lugosi.
Plus the most dreaded creature of them all, the Frankenstein monster played by Glenn Strange.
Plus a couple of luscious but designing females in the spookiest laugh best on record.
So let us continue with the production history of this film. We'll carry on. So the producer
and director of the film is George Wagner. He was just a studio director, a long career,
but best known for directing horror, western and war films. He had just directed Lon Chaney in the
previous universal horror film, Man-Made Monster from 1941. It was written by Kurtzi Odmak,
who penned many horror stories and screenplays, including Donovan's Brain, I Walked with the
Zombie, The Beast with Five Fingers, Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman, and it should be noted,
Kurtzi Odmak essentially invented the modern werewolf mythology with this screenplay.
The cinematography
is by Joseph Valentine. He was a five-time Oscar nominated cinematographer and a one-time winner
for Joan of Arc in 1949. He was a frequent collaborator with Alfred Hitchcock on movies
like Saboteur, Shadow of a Doubt, and Rope. Most of Hitchcock's movies, of course, are extremely
visually stunning, but Rope and Shadow of a Doubt, like up there, like two of the most visually
incredible, I would say, throughout his career. So really, really great cinematographer, Joseph Valentine.
Yeah, and I think coupled with Jack Otterson's art direction in The Wolfman,
that's something I noticed now that I never noticed when I was younger was this movie looks
really good. Like the shadows and the lighting, everything in the forest, but all the interior
scenes, like in the antique store, like there's something really soft yet crisp about the black
and white in this movie. It doesn't just feel like a B movie. It has some prestige behind it.
It's crazy to think that a lot of those forest scenes were on like a, you know, the sound stage,
what they were able to do with that. It was crazy. I would just imagine being able to be on one of
those sound stages full of fog and the trees and everything. They look fantastic.
Yeah, it's like, and I love that it feels, it looks like a sound stage, but it doesn't distract me at all.
Like in Frankenstein at the end of the 31 movie, when it's clearly on there, like in the mountains,
but there's like a fabric depicting the sky. I feel like the technology had improved by The Wolfman.
It's like, this is a set, but it's not obviously on a set sound stage.
And I think nowadays, like there's just something so vivid and like fantastic about that look.
Like I think the fact that it's not totally realistic just adds to it. And this is a perfect
movie to watch in mid-October. It's like absolute Halloween vibes, you know, just like, yeah, like
foggy kind of dark forests, eerie, shadowy. Like this is like synonymous with classic horror,
you know, the look of the film.
Makeup by Jack Pierce, of course, created the classic universal monster looks for many of the characters.
Frankenstein, the mummy, even previously, Werewolf of London before this one.
Definitely a perfectionist, but kind of, you know, that did make him a little bit more brutal as far
as his methods and, you know, seriousness, but kind of made him a professional at the same time.
But he was a true master that inspired a lot of people now, like Rick Baker and many more.
For sure. Yeah, like his makeup for Frankenstein's monster, I mean, that's a cultural legend, you know,
what I mean? Like, I feel like when everybody thinks about Frankenstein, the image of that
monster, Boris Karloff from 1931, I feel like for most people is still what comes to mind right away.
And that's Jack Pierce, but like behind that, that's such a huge influence on like the American
cultural legacy, you know?
Yeah, he was, he was, I guess, difficult to work with because of his perfectionist attitude. So,
you know, there's pros and cons to that. But I was watching and a lot of my notes are going to come
from the DVD audio commentary of The Wolfman by Tom Weaver, the horror film historian. And he said
that on set, Jack Pierce would make fun of Lon Chaney, like to him, like just, you know, making
fun of him because he didn't have the same makeup talents as his father, Lon Chaney, senior, you
know, Chaney had his own difficulties on set. But, you know, he and Jack Pierce did not get along.
There's that classic image of Chaney in the makeup chair. And, you know, he's making that fist at
Jack Pierce, like he's gonna whack him. He's probably just tired of being singed with the
hot iron, trying to curl those. That's right. Yeah. So they were, they would use yak hair,
and they would kind of like, Pierce would layer it on and then kind of like curl it. And that's how
they got the look of it. But he would curl it with a hot iron. So he would just sometimes like,
probably burn Lon Chaney, junior, and you'd kind of annoy him with that. And doing that for a couple
hours, I'm sure he got a little bit tired of that. Yeah. And like if every day they had to shoot,
or not every day, but like whenever Lon Chaney, junior had to get the makeup applied, he would
be like a four or five hour process to put it on and then like a one hour process to like,
take it off at the end of shooting. So if you're spending that much time in a room with somebody,
you're probably going to be like sort of annoyed with them eventually at some point, you know, so
it's yeah, like it sounds like it's the perfect combination of like, frustrating circumstances
and two sort of like difficult personalities at the same time. Well, let's talk more about Lon
Chaney, junior. There's so much to say, I think that we could record for an hour about Lon Chaney,
junior himself, but the Wolfman was his. It wasn't his first film. It was maybe his breakout
role. It was his second monster from horror film at Universal. His first was that manmade monster,
as previously mentioned, but he had made a name for himself in of Mice and Men in onstage and in
the film in 1936, I believe. Nope, 1939. But he's obviously the son of Lon Chaney, the very famous,
well known star of the silent era, or icon in his own right, starred in Phantom of the Opera,
The Hunchback of Notre Dame and many others. And he, the father, did not want his son to follow in
his footsteps. I think Lon Chaney, junior had a career as a plumber at one point, but after
his father passed away in the 1930s, I think. Yeah, like right before Dracula. That's right,
because he was going to be cast as Dracula. What could have been? That's all right. Bella
Lugosi is just fine. But we'll get to we'll get to Bella Lugosi. Lon Chaney, junior was going by
that his name, his birth name Creighton Chaney, but he found that doors opened more easily if he
changed his name to Lon Chaney, junior. So much to his chagrin. He did do that. And a legend was born.
Yeah, I was recently watching the film again in preparation and I was just like,
to me, I would have gave him an Oscar for this performance. I really love his like,
at the beginning, he's very, you know, cheerful, has a positive outlook and he's able to just kind
of like switch it in a moment where he's just like, this very depressing kind of, you know,
mentality where he's just like being bogged down by all this stuff that's happening around him.
So I think he's actually a really fantastic actor. And to the makeup process, like a point to that
is like, I think when he thought about his dad's work, he was able to kind of endure more time with
with some of those annoyances. Because I think he realized how great of work his father did and
had in DUR as well. You know, initially, I had some reservations about his performance. But the
more I think about it, I do think kind of like Brian was saying, it's sort of intentional,
like how kind of rough the performance seems at first. That's maybe I'll say for now,
I'll talk more about that later. For sure. Some final notes on Lon Chaney, junior. You know,
he was a big star at Universal throughout the 40s. He started in all the actually he started all the
major monsters, the mummy Frankenstein's monster Dracula. But he did play the Wolfman and all of
its subsequent sequels. However, in the 50s and 60s, and then he died in the 1970s, he really
transitioned to supporting roles in a lot of low budget westerns and horrors. His his career did
not end the way Vincent Price's did or Boris Karloff even. So so Chaney had some demons.
He was a heavy drinker, heavy smoker. And you can see that reflected, I think, in the the end of his
career. But with all that said, he is a legend. And, and has some really good work to his name.
Yeah, I think he related a lot with Larry Talbot as far as like this this tragedy of a story that
is, you know, that was his life in a sense a little bit there towards the end. But but he did love the
character. It was like his baby. So I do think he did kind of relate with a lot of that that tragedy
that you find in the film. Yeah, especially that father son relationship. You think, you know, how
does that mirror his own relationship with his own father and living up to family legacy?
Yeah, there's a lot there. Yeah, yeah. And you guys would know better than me. I haven't seen any of
the other except for Eben Castello Meet the Wolfman. I haven't seen any of the other Wolfman movies
like but his performances as the character after this movie are a little bit more comedic, right?
Maybe more like tongue in cheek kind of parodic most of the time, like more so than this movie.
Is that correct? I don't think so. I think those movies like House of Dracula, House of Frankenstein,
there can be, but I don't think they're played for laughs the way Abbott and Castello is. Would you
agree, Brian? Yeah, I think that in that movie, it takes it a little bit further. But I think it
only becomes more comedic, I think, because at that point, the tropes just become like cemented by
that point. So it's just like it's kind of he's playing the same situation essentially every time
he comes back. Yeah, right. So when I watch those movies, it's just Larry Talbot just becomes,
to me, more and more of a sad case with each movie. He's like, he really becomes one dimensional.
He just wants to end his own life. And he doesn't have any of that nuance he has in this first movie.
I'm excited to watch future installments or the later installments. But yeah, I was just curious
like if his performance in this movie is significantly different than his performance
in later as the Wolfman in later movies, but it sounds like he brings a kind of like gravity
to it, regardless of what particular movie is in. Yeah, I think that's a good point.
He's in. Yeah, he takes it very seriously. But there are other actors in this movie,
believe it or not. And we'll start with Evelyn Anchors or Evelyn Anchors. I have heard both.
So I'm going to say anchors because Tom Weaver says anchors on the DVD commentary.
But anchors plays Gwen Conniff, the romantic interest in this movie. But anchors herself was
an English actress who made her name for herself in Universal Horror films. She did not want to be
in horror movies. She took herself very seriously more than these. But what do you know, she became
known as Queen of the Bees. And she ended up starring in six films with Lon Chaney, Jr. despite
them not getting along at all on set. But she was in Son of Dracula, Ghost of Frankenstein,
Weird Woman from Universal, which I just had to shout out there. Great title. Yeah.
How about Claude Rains? Yeah, I can talk about Claude Rains a little bit. He plays Larry's father,
Sir Talbot, a very wealthy kind of socialite. Claude Rains was an English actor, four time
Oscar nominee for best supporting actor. Well known from a lot of classics, Casablanca, Hitchcock's
Notorious among them. But there's another Universal Horror connection as well in the sense that Claude
Rains played the invisible man in 1933. His first movie. I was not aware of that. That's cool. Wow.
He's great in that. Yeah. He's great in this, I think, too. Like aside from the height discrepancy,
I think the relationship between Lon Chaney, Jr. and Claude Rains is really compelling in this
movie, especially in the ending, which I won't give away right now. But like you guys said,
maybe kind of mirrors Lon Chaney, Jr.'s own relationship with his father a little bit.
And yeah, Claude Rains gives a small but very convincing and effective performance here.
Yeah, I was going to say, I want to see Larry's mom now to see what she looked like because I
don't really see much of him in Claude Rains, but he's a great actor and they do play off each other
pretty well. And then you can't help but hear the invisible man talking to the wolf man, essentially.
Yeah. Well, I would close my eyes sometimes and just imagine Jack Griffin in that movie.
In that. Yeah. Brian, you want to talk about any of the other actors?
Yeah, let's do I'm probably going to butcher this. Maria Upenskaya as Maliva, the gypsy woman who
is a Russian born actress and two time Oscar winner or Oscar nominee. It's studied with
Stans. Stan is a blockly. Just a just a whole butchering of names here at the Moscow Art
Theatre and in Hollywood became a well-respected acting coach. She's actually like and she's in
Frankenstein meets the Wolfman as well. And she's essentially just playing kind of like the same
thing, kind of like what Chaney does later on, where you kind of just go through the motions of
it. But but in this movie, she really sells like the kind of like the depressing nature of like
the curse and everything and and what it's like to care for these people that are that are going
through it. She does play like a really great like mother figure to to to Chaney's Talbot.
Yeah, I was I was very impressed with their performance in this. And Brian, I apologize.
I threw you under the bus there with these Russian names. I went to school for acting.
So Stanislavsky is the Russian director teacher who whose teachings eventually gave us the method
acting that actors still use today. So there you go. Theater history useful after all.
I majored in film studies, so I'm not I'm not making fun of you with that. I yeah,
you can make fun of it. It's all fascinating. So yeah, it's OK.
Did Bela Lugosi use any method acting in this film?
He truly got into the head of his Roma character, his gypsy character.
He has such a small role in this movie. He auditioned to play the wolf man, the main
character, but instead he was cast in what almost as a cameo he's on screen so briefly. But
of course, horror legends. He played Dracula in 1931, obviously, you know, maybe kind of like
Lon Chaney Jr. Like you were saying before, Vincent, like Bela Lugosi's later career did
not live up to the early heights of his career. You know, he was in Plan 9 from outer space,
for example. But, you know, such a distinct screen presence, especially in these early
Universal Horror monster movies. I think it's great in this movie, you know,
small but mighty part. Yeah, he's he's a when I was younger, I think I
didn't even now because we're fans of it and all that we we know it's Lugosi. But as a kid,
I think he kind of like does hide himself pretty well in this role and and sets it apart from
things he's done like Igor and all that. I would have loved to see a prequel starring Lugosi and
see where his wolf character came from. Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. I think I think what
you said, then you mentioned Igor, I think that's actually his best role of anything. Yeah.
Because he made you watch him in a lot of supporting roles at this time in the 40s. And
you realize, oh, maybe he's like a really good supporting role type of actor who could lose
himself in makeup and accents and things. So, yeah, I don't know. He didn't really get the
the star treatment after the after Dracula after the 30s. But, you know, we still love him. And I
love that his name his character name is Bela. It was meant to be. Sead Mack went.
I'm not going to think too hard about this.
OK, rounding out the cast, just some names that other classic film lovers may know. Ralph Bellamy,
Captain Paul Monford and Patrick Knowles as Frank, who is
anchors is engaged. Well, Anchors is sorry, Gwen, played by Evelyn Anchors, is engaged to Frank,
played by Patrick Knowles. Yeah, he Frank seems kind of surprising. He's a very
yeah, he Frank seems kind of surprisingly OK with Larry just like swooping in and trying to take his
girl. He's like, I want to, you know, I'm not going to be jealous. I'm going to be friends with this
guy. It's like, wow, it's mighty, mighty big of you, Frank. You know, it's a little surprising.
Every time I watch this movie, I feel like I'm waiting for him, like it's going to change or
something to like shake his hand when they first meet. And I'm like, he just keeps staring at his
cane. And I'm just like, wow, this guy's kind of rude. Yeah, understandably so. Yeah, I have I have
thoughts about the Frank character. Later on, later on, this is like the the werewolf movie that set
the tone for others to come. It was not the first werewolf movie that is Werewolf of London from
nineteen thirty five. And in fact, Universal had thought about making a werewolf movie for Boris
Karloff. But this was a genre without precedent. Hollywood really hadn't done this. Filmmakers
hadn't done a werewolf movie before. So I think. With the failed Karloff project and then Werewolf
of London, which was not a financial success, I think Universal and these guys were like really
trying to figure out the the chemistry there. They obviously nailed it with the Wolfman, but
that's that's that's a it's a very brief history of werewolf movies up until this point.
Kurtz Yadmak, as Matt, you said he had emigrated to the US in nineteen thirty seven, German Jew of
Polish descent. The Wolfman was his big break in Hollywood and everything he writes in this movie,
Bull Moons, Silver Weapons, Wolfsbane. He made all that up. Which is astounding that that is so baked
into our culture and it comes from this movie. Even that poem that they recite several times
throughout the movie, which sounds convincingly like a very old poem, he made that up, too.
So pretty impressive. Yeah, I've heard some stories where people are like citing stuff that
that was made for this movie as like, you know, folklore and like, you know, ancient text or
something. I'm like, I think that was probably just from the movie. And you see it cited other
places and it's just it's it's funny to to see that people actually think this stuff existed
way before this movie. A sign of good writing, I think, you know. Well, speaking of the writing.
Yeah, totally. The script went through a lot of changes throughout the production of the film.
Up until shooting, the story focused way more heavily on the psychological mystery of Larry's
werewolfism. Initial drafts, you know, the audience wasn't really supposed to know if he
really was a werewolf or if it was all going on inside of his head. Many of these elements
really do remain present and really fascinating, I think, in the final film and possibly explain
the discrepancy between Bella's wolf like werewolf and Chaney's two legged wolf man.
So there's a sense of like narrative logic and consistency there. You know, it's understandable
that the studio, you know, after the initial drafts of the screenplay was like, no, you need
to have an actual werewolf in this movie. So they like added those scenes and like, probably a good
thing in the long run. But I do admire that C.O.D. Max original drafts of the script were a lot more
ambiguous as to whether any of this was actually happening or if it was just a product of insanity
in the main character's head. It reminds you of Cat People, which was made the year after the
Wolfman. Absolutely. Another one of my favorites. Yeah, it was funny to see that the wolf man
doesn't actually show up to like the last 30 minutes of this movie. So it's like you can kind
of see where that other script where it was mostly that previous script and then, you know, maybe
last minute there, like, you know what, you got to show the monster. I mean, obviously, I'm glad
they did because the monster makeup and appearance is like so legendary in this movie and and still
really effective, I think. So this is maybe one case where like making concessions to like make
the audience happy probably actually did improve the movie a little bit. But but at the same time,
I mean, that theme of like, you know, what is real and what is going on inside of Larry's head is
still very, very much in this movie and probably the main theme, I would say. Let's talk about that
transformation then into actual werewolf. This was used through the the film technique of lap
dissolves in a nutshell, I'll try to simplify it for my simple brain. Jack Pierce would
progressively layer on more and more of the makeup of the hair. And while he's doing that,
they would film a few seconds of Cheney's face, for instance. And then they'd stop filming,
and then Jack Pierce would apply more makeup, and so on and so forth. This process of the lap
dissolves took up to 10 hours for seconds mere seconds of wolfman transformation in the film.
Yeah, like you and then you know, so you would have the end of one shot and like the beginning
of the next shot, like momentarily kind of on screen at the same moment, which is how you get
that impression of like, you know, things seemingly changing like before your very eyes,
even though obviously that's not the case. But yeah, I mean, a long painstaking process.
It definitely got better as the movies went on. And then they figured out better ways to shoot it,
especially in the in the sequel, Frankenstein meets the wolfman, he has that like pillow behind
him. And it kind of creates a easier background for it not to be like, well, we got to remember
how everything was placed and all that. So less discrepancies and stuff. But it's still a cool
effect that I think people even in like spoofs and stuff. Now you see it like people just replicate
that that look of the lap dissolve just to kind of like poke fun and and connect it back to the
classics. And it works. It doesn't look cheesy. It doesn't look bad. It's just like, OK, that's
how they did it. And it works for me. So bring it back to this art designer, Jack Otterson.
We talked about him earlier with the fog and the forest sets that he designed.
This is just some fun trivia. Now, the the fog that they used at the time in Hollywood
was toxic. It's not the dry ice stuff that we use now. And Evelyn anchors had fallen on the
floor of that set. And she was lost in the fog because it was so thick. And then everyone went,
oh crap, where's Evelyn? She's somewhere in the fog. She's going to die. We need to find her.
They did find her, obviously, but she kind of went through it on this film. And there's some
other bits of trivia we'll talk about here. But yeah, the price to be paid for art.
Yeah, I love to be on these sets, but they definitely sound like dangerous places.
Yeah, sort of on that note, I mean, that leads into the next. There was another
scene that was shot at the carnival where Larry wrestles a bear, basically, trying to like
convey his like transformation into a wild beast. The scene was actually filmed, but it's not
included in the final movie. But at one point on set, the bear broke loose and chased again,
Evelyn anchors until the handler could stop the bear. So, yeah, I mean, like you said,
anchors did not have a very good time during the making of this movie, passing out from toxic gas
chased by bears. You never know where you're going to get into.
I wish that that deleted scene existed of Lon Chaney Jr. fighting a bear.
I think there's an image out there for sure. And then you can kind of see a little bit of it
in the original trailer, but that's about it. And yeah, I wish I wish they would have had the whole
thing in there. It would have been it would have definitely would have been cool. And it was still
on that line. And I think that's the only thing that's left. And I think that's the only thing
that's left. And I think that's the only thing that's left. And I think that that was still on
that line of like, it would have given a little bit more action prior to him turning into the
werewolf and still being in that line of like, well, is he or isn't he? Yeah, yeah. I think
as Weber describes it on the commentary, they took it out because up until that point, Larry Talbot
was not and the decision was made that to depict him as like the savage person would have been too
far out of the character they had established up until that point. Yeah, I could see that point. I
do think though, like, if you need a little something to kind of bridge the gap between
the psychological stuff and then just, he kind of just turned into a werewolf, like kind of
suddenly. Maybe. Yeah, I think I think you're right, too. I mean, who's to say but what a
horrible scene it would have been. Yeah, and I'm surprised to hear that reason for taking it out
because I was going to get into this later a little bit. But at first, I find Larry such an
unlikable character, like, especially the fact that he's like, spying on this woman through a
telescope into her bedroom, like through her bedroom window, like, he doesn't seem like the
best guy in the world from the start of the movie. And like, at first, that was something I didn't
like so much about it. But the more I think about it, I'm like, oh, I think that's one of the points
that I'm going to make about the movie. But I'll wait to talk more about that. I'll get more into
that later.
For sure. It was released in December of 1941. It was extremely popular, spawned several Wolfman
sequels that continue the story of Larry Talbot's search for eternal rest, which is essentially his
own death. Every following movie is about him trying to kill himself, which is actually a
great movie. I'd look maybe we'll talk about those movies at some point. But a tremendous legacy,
obviously. And Universal released a remake in 2010 with Benicio del Toro as Larry Talbot and Anthony
Hopkins as Sir John, which was still very much in the the Gothic Victorian mold. But this January,
Benicio del Toro and Blumhouse, I believe, are releasing another Wolfman adaptation. How do you
feel about that, Brian?
Um, I, I like 2010. As far as like the design and the look of it, it's going to be interesting to
have this story told with like a definitive modern, like modernization of it because it's like, based
on what modernization looks like contemporary. I'm down for it because I do like Lee Whannell and I
did like his Invisible Man as far as like the themes and where he took it to, you know, making
these movies, horror movies, which they were and they are. So I'm, I'm up for it. I'll give it a
shot and then I'll hold my judgment until I check it out.
Yeah, took the words right out of my mouth. That's, that's how I feel. All right. Well, this is a
wrap for our sponsor break. We'll get into that. Uh, read some listener comments and do a quick bit
of trivia here and then we'll get into our themes and our personal breakdowns.
Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack powered by Coldwell Banker Realty,
your source for real estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients and residential
buyers. Reach out to the Zach Pack today for real estate services. Follow the Zach Pack on social
and contact the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Links in the show notes.
And Meanie's mailbox is brought to you by Patreon. If you become a patron,
then your comments are tops. And what I did today was I asked our followers on Instagram
to share their thoughts and memories about the Wolfman from Brandy Gibby. She says,
I used to not care for this movie when I was younger, but I like it more now with every new
watch. Yeah, I get that Brandy. That's definitely what happens with me. I'm like, you just keep
watching this movie. I could put it on like so many times now, like maybe twice a day and just
kind of like, even if it's on in the background, I'm like, this is just like a good vibe movie.
And Brandy actually a big part of the Universal Monsters Universe page as well. Yeah, big fan of
Brandy. And I feel you too. I feel like this time when I watched the Wolfman, I was paying attention
to the other actors in the cast and like Evelyn Anchors. And I was like, wow, she's doing some
really good work. So yeah, it's just that idea of finding something new with each time you watch it.
Matt, do you want to do our trivia honors? Sure. Yeah. So on the last episode that we had trivia
was Planet of the Apes, the Tim Burton version from 2001. So our trivia question from that episode
was Planet of the Apes was nominated for three Razzie Awards, the film one to worst remake or
sequel and worst supporting actor awarded to which member of the supporting cast or which members,
right? It was two, I believe two winners or losers as the case might be. I'm a little confused.
Well, I looked it up and found Estella Warren, but Naomi's answer was Charlton Hester. I feel
like maybe they were both nominated and Estella Warren won. I feel like maybe that's what happened.
That's okay. I think we will accept both answers and we will reveal our winner for the Planet of
the Apes trivia that goes to Jojo Lizzie on Instagram. So Jojo, go ahead and reach out to
us at CampKaiju at gmail.com. That way you and I can communicate and get the details around your
merch order, around your address, and you can visit CampKaiju.threadlist.com and choose whatever
you would like for us to send you. So there you go. Thank you, Jojo Lizzie and thank you,
everyone else for playing along. Nice. I mean, you know, it feels kind of unfair for those two in
particular to be called out. Like they're not great in the movie, but nobody really is in Planet of
the Apes. So it seems a little bit unfair, but yeah, it's understandable at the same time.
Poor Charlton Hester, though, you know, like he's in the original. Like how are you going to do that
to him? Seems a little cruel. Damn you, Razzie Awards. Are you ready to play the trivia that
shall it the world? All right. So our question this week in the Wolfman from 1941, which ominous
flora described as deadly when in bloom is central to the werewolf legend and the transformation into
the creature? There you go. Folks, get your answers in, comment on your favorite podcatcher on our
on our Instagram, email us and all those links are in our show notes. Remember that your answer gets
you into the pot and we will reveal our winner on God told me to. So get those Wolfman answers in.
We'll see you next time for the trivia that shall it the world.
And now we hand it over to Peter Laurie, who is is doing a great job of reviewing
silent monster movies. So that's awesome. I love it. That sounds great.
His reviews are getting a little bit more off the rails, I think, as time goes on, but he's doing
good work. He's trying. Yeah, he's he's trying. He's trying to keep the madness at bay. Sounds
like Peter Laurie. Yeah, not totally successfully. I might add. Yeah, but he's going to talk about the
1926 movie Faust directed by F.W. Murnau, one of my favorites for now. Yeah, love that gorgeous
movie. Terrifying movie. Before Karloff and Legosi stocked the screens, the movies were no less
monstrous. These frightful figures lurked in the expressionistic shadows and danced in the macabre
moonlight. Oh, they laughed and cried. They fooled the sensibilities of honest, decent folk.
In the age of silent pictures, these gruesome ghouls nonetheless cried out with a savage humanity
took the breath from all who witnessed their devilish delights. Or in the silence,
no one can hear you scream. Hello, everybody. I am Peter Laurie. You may know me from such movies as
Beat the Devil and and Stranger on the Third Floor. These days, I am a professional podcaster
here in the afterlife. And I humbly thank Matthew and Vincent for disturbing my eternal rest,
wrenching my bones from my tomb and propping my withered corpse within the four walls of this
booth from which there is no escape. Unless, of course, I fulfill my audio obligations and review
monster movies from the silent era. These past few weeks, we have explored the horror films of
the German Expressionist movement, movies like The Golem, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari and Metropolis.
I present one more entry. It is called Faust from 1926 and directed by F.W. Murnau. Murnau,
of course, better known, perhaps, for his masterpiece Nosferatu and the Academy Award-winning
best picture, Sunrise, A Song of Two Humans. But it is this retelling of the medieval legend of
Faust that will haunt your dreams this spooky season. For the uninitiated, Faust is about the
demon Mephisto who makes a bet with an archangel that a good man's soul can be corrupted. Mephisto
sets his sights on the thoughtful old alchemist Faust who is desperately trying to save his village
from the plague. He is able to help the villagers thanks to Mephisto, but further dealings with the
devil lead Faust on a decadent downward spiral. Can he redeem his soul before it is too late?
The film digs into the steams of fate, free will, human vanity and self-sacrifice.
Now Faust was the most expansive German film at the time and despite being a box office
disappointment, it is regarded among Bernal's best. It was also his last film in Germany before his
move to the United States where he made Sunrise. And an interesting bit of trivia is that the
knighted ball mountain sequence in Disney's animated Phantasia was directly inspired by
the monstrous demon imagery in Faust. Have I convinced you yet to check out this movie
that is criminally underrated? Now do it before I harden me.
Ladies and gentlemen, I got a little ahead of myself. As you know, I am trying to turn over a
new leaf so that Matthew and Vincent might not renege on their commitment to releasing me from
my podcast bondage at the conclusion of this silent but deadly series. And in that vein,
next time we will move back to the United States and discuss the 1920 adaptation of Dr. Tickle
and Mr. Hyde starring the one and only John Barrymore. And what do you know, it will also
be November and I will give thanks for nearing the end of my podcast purgatorio.
Across the centuries comes this exciting story of a modern girl cursed by an ancient legend,
a legend of a cat. Women whose kiss means death, whose love turns them into vicious,
gnarly beasts of prey. Twice I've been followed by something that was not human,
something that attempted to take my life. I believe that was the cat form of Irina.
Why should she wish to harm you? Because I'm in love with her husband.
It's shut now. Just a minute ago it was open. It's locked. Leave us, Irina.
This is the voice of the uninvited.
It's coming from downstairs. It comes from everywhere and nowhere. A house of terror on
the haunted cliffs of Cornwall where the uninvited walk unseen by men. Yet a cat arches its back in
fright. Flowers are withered by the touch of an unseen malignant hand. Candles flicker and die as
a ghostly chill fills the air and the living are clutched by the icy horror of the restless death.
Stop him. Don't go near that door. The uninvited Dorothy McArdle's gripping novel of the
supernatural comes to the screen starring Raymond Land, Ruth Hosse, Donald Crisp with Cornelia
Otis Skinner and introducing the exciting beauty of Gail Russell whose first love is shadowed by
the specters of the past. Stella, what is it? Are you ill, Stella? Quiet. Leave her alone.
Oh my God. Oh my God. Stop it, Scott. She's in a trance. I saw this happen once before at a
seance. I thought it was a fake. But this isn't. I know. It's dangerous. Please get out of this
house now. Now lie there quietly. I'm not afraid of anything here. Then be afraid. Be afraid for
heaven's sake. When you were a little child, the evils of this house reached out for you. Stella,
go. Go. All right. Well, back to the Wolfman. Let's talk about the themes. What stuck out to me was
all the psychological distress and talk of the film, which is very much in line with a lot of
horror movies in the late 30s, 40s. Dracula's daughter featured these themes, cat people.
But there's the idea of the id, which is the Freudian concept of the id representing instinct
and unconscious urges. Claude Rains, he literally says, werewolves are a symbol for the dual
personality. And then there's a big conversation between him and Larry about one's nature and the
good and the bad in us all and how those are constantly at war with each other.
Yeah. And I think those are like the themes that reappear in so many of these werewolf movies
afterwards, like Wolf with Jack Nicholson, which we've talked about on the podcast,
Howling, which is my personal favorite werewolf movie. But I mean, it all kind of goes back to
the Wolfman in 1941. And they are really fascinating themes, especially in the context of World War
Two and just what was going on globally at the time. And there are a lot of sort of variations
on it in this movie. There's the id part of it. There's the good and evil within all of us kind
of fighting to which one is going to win out in the end and each individual. And then there's
also just the theme of animalism and the beast inside of all of us. This seemed like a good time
to say that at first I did not like the Larry character. He's kind of like a rich, spoiled,
very creepily flirtatious guy who just takes whatever he wants. But I mean, the more I think
about it, it must be intentional. That animalistic part is there in him from the very start,
even before he's bitten by the wolf. So it's a compelling theme. And I think most viewers can
identify with that a little bit, just kind of like the good and the dark parts of all of us or
whatever. It remains a very compelling theme 80 years later.
Yeah, definitely. Especially with the, it's kind of like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde type of situation.
I think you see a lot of those movies kind of not be adapted later on in horror because
I think the Wolfman almost like filled in for that kind of thematically. It fills in for that
story with the whole id situation and all that. Because you definitely see that in the movie.
Especially in the 31 Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Oh yeah.
So I think the Wolfman kind of just like pushed him to the side a little bit. So I would have
loved to see more Dr. Jekyll during this period. But that's just the way it is. As far as
C. Odd Max, kind of like what he brought to the script as far as the thematics of World War II.
It's interesting that if you think about the release date, I think this was released like
two days after the attack on Pearl Harbor. So it's like, it's very tied to that period and time.
But I think he also described that he saw men become monsters as far as like what happened with
the Nazi soldiers and the Germans going, what was going on in Germany at the time. So he brought
that to it. And I think that speaks so well to that dual nature. Yeah, absolutely. And at first,
it doesn't seem like war is really like a conspicuous part of this movie. But there's
a brief line of dialogue towards the beginning that Larry's brother died in war. And that's kind
of like a formative conflict between Larry and his dad. It's a very, very brief line of dialogue,
but I think it's pretty significant. They never really touch upon that again, even though there's
kind of a strained relationship between Larry and his dad. And then we also just get the sense that
or there's the fact that Larry returns from the United States to this estate in Wales,
which is where the movie takes place. So there is a little bit of that kind of like Europe versus
America. Maybe not tension, but just kind of like there was the question of like if and when America
was going to enter World War II. And obviously it happened shortly after this and after Pearl Harbor,
like you said, Brian. So I do think those themes come through in really kind of subtle ways that
aren't totally explicit. Maybe the first time you watch this movie. And it reminded me of I
Walked with a Zombie a little bit, another movie written by Kurt Siyadmak, where there are all
these really complicated themes that are somehow kind of smuggled into this movie that's barely
more than an hour long. It's super impressive in both movies. And honestly, things I never thought
about until I was doing research for this episode, you know, because I see the more
explicit themes of Larry is an American ostensibly and he's now the outsider in this small Welsh town
and the conflict that engages with his family legacy because now he as the younger brother was
never expected to take over the estate, but now he must. And he has that conflict with his dad
and his standing in the village is really interesting. There's really, there's some
nuggets about him being in love with Gwen, who is just the shopkeeper's daughter.
I think Frank Patrick Knowles has a line about be careful. He's a Talbot.
And I wanted that fleshed out a little bit more. So like, what does that mean? But maybe I can
infer that, you know, Talbot's and shopkeeper's girls don't mix. Like there's a class hierarchy
there, which I do find interesting. I wish maybe it was leaned into a little bit more. Yeah, I
definitely think that there's something with that has like a class, like you said, class theme behind
that. And also it's like, because of that status, is he like acting a certain way? And maybe even
from his, you know, how he lived in America, does he come into this European village now and think,
you know, everything's ripe for the taking, even if it's this lady who's essentially, or she is,
you know, going to be married. And he's still kind of like pushing and pushing. And he just has like
this kind of very, I don't know, like spoiled or, you know, very, you know, he's he's he just keeps
going for it. And it's like, maybe it's a little bit of entitlement. It seems like a very American
mindset, like big bravado. You know, I'm here, everybody.
I also just have to mention, like, maybe it's because I am a son, and I have a father, and,
you know, we have a history together, that the relationship between Larry and Sir John
just like really gets me in the feels, especially at the end, you know, and spoiler alerts, when
when Sir John ends up killing his own son, after trying to help him through this this illness.
It's heartbreaking. It's honestly, I think it's one of the most tragic things in a Universal
Monster movie. It might be the most tragic thing. I totally agree. It's an incredibly bleak ending
and says, yeah, you know, I mean, like, there's a lot that we kind of have to like read into their
relationship a little bit, but there's enough there in the performances and like little bits
of dialogue to just say a lot about that. But then it all comes together in that ending, which is
really, really incredible. Love the ending of this movie. Yeah, but it might say something about me.
I don't know. But two of my favorite werewolf movies are this and American Werewolf, which both have
terrible bleak endings. And it's just like, I think those are some of the best. I think the best
werewolf stories are ultimately just, you know, like these big Greek tragedies. And, you know,
speaking to, you know, Claude Rains, his character and him having to kill his own son and not knowing.
And it's like, ultimately, maybe he did. He did help him at the end there. So maybe there's a
little bit of tragedy, but maybe he finally gets to rest. Yeah, it's heartbreaking. Yeah.
Until the sequels is all I was going to say. Yeah. Until Universal needed more money. Yeah.
Brian, I love that you brought up the Greek tragedy aspect. George Wagner himself
shot this movie like a tragedy and with that inevitable conclusion. And those were his words,
a Greek tragedy. And after hearing that, I was like, oh, yeah, there's something heightened about
this. There's something very, very dramatic, very stage like about this, larger than life.
Feels almost like fated in a way. Like they're doomed to a fate that they can't escape, you know.
I think one of the original titles, one of the original titles for the movie was actually going
to be a destiny. So it's almost like they were starting with that theme from the very beginning.
This would have been back when I think Karloff was still attached to it. But like I said, I think
some of the best werewolf stories are like, this shit is probably not going to end well for anybody
here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is the final segment of our show now where we get into our individual
breakdowns. So, you know, as much or as little as you want to share, but each of us will share
what we liked about the movie, what we didn't like about the movie, what we didn't like about
the movie. And then something can't be about it. Something that was silly, that made you laugh,
whether it was intended or not. Where to begin with all the things I like about this movie?
You know, I think all of us are kind of in the same same boat with that. I think like stylistically,
there's so much care that goes into this movie. It's extremely well shot. The sets are beautiful.
Like even aside from like the kind of spooky nighttime scenes, there's an early tracking shot
that's in Sir John's laboratory where like they're first putting together this telescope.
And it's a tracking shot that like starts at the very back of the room. And it must be like a track
a tracking shot on a crane, because then it kind of like goes up to like the second level of the
laboratory. And it goes like all the way up to like a close up, maybe like a medium shot of the
telescope. It's stunning. Like it's something that maybe like, like in Notorious, the Hitchcock movie,
there's a similar shot. It's it's more impressive. It like goes all the way down this huge swooping
staircase. But it's really impressive here, too. That's a long winded way to say that this is just
like such a beautiful movie. And it's so well put together. thematically, there's so much to it,
I promise I won't take all the stuff so you guys can say some things as well. But it's it's
beautiful to watch. There's a lot to think about. I'll leave it there so you guys can take over a
little bit. Okay, I'll make mine quick. Things I've said already, but I think for me, the strongest
part of this movie are the performers. I think as I'll get into I think there's there's some to be
desired with the script. But the performers really step up. And I think Claude Rains is the glue of
this film. I think he makes Lon Chaney Jr. a better actor in their scenes. I just I'm a huge Claude
Rains fan. But anchors and Chaney. Yeah, it's just they make it work for me. Yeah, so this is going
to be pretty easy for me because I'm just like this is my favorite movie of all time. So it's
like actors, cinematography, direction, you know, like writing, maybe it's not like it's pretty like
on one note, but the performance is for sure. Even Lugosi is not even on screen for that long,
and he turns in this fantastic performance. The themes of that Seodmic brings to the script is
what I think makes the one note nature of the story better. And also the sets I think are the
best in any Universal Monster classic movie, even Frankenstein, which has those gorgeous lab sets.
But, you know, here it was just like a fairy tale with those foggy trees and like the forest and
everything. So yeah, great performances, great sets, great direction. I think this is this is
one of the best ones. That's awesome. All right. What do we I'm gonna challenge you Brian, to come
up with something that doesn't quite work for you, but me and Matt can start. Well, I'll mention
Lon Chaney Jr.'s performance again. I do think the more I think about it, it like, you know,
just the fact that he's kind of like a big oaf, like for the first maybe like 20, 30 minutes of
the movie, maybe more like 20. You know, at first I thought he was such an unlikable and uninteresting
screen presence, that it was a flaw of the movie. Even that I'll add an asterisk to it, because then
I think it makes his transition to a beast and it makes kind of like the darker forces in him a
little bit more believable when they do come out later in the movie. So I'll temper that a little
bit. But, you know, initially, at least Chaney's performance is not my favorite in this movie.
You know, I guess I wish it was a little bit longer. I think like, one of the things I love
about it is that it's 70 minutes. But also, I mean, I feel like the movie doesn't really have time to
work through all these ideas about war, father-son relationships, the id, you know, animalism, all
this stuff. I think like the movie kind of feels a little bit rushed at times. And we kind of have
to like glean these themes, which isn't a bad thing. But it's like, the movie can maybe deepen
them a little bit, complicate them a little bit more. Yeah. And like the last thing I'll say is
that the Gwen character could be a little bit more complex or deep as well. But again, if you have
70 minutes, there's probably not really a ton of time to go into a lot of backstory and things like that.
Well, I'm glad you brought up the Gwen character, because I think that that's where the movie could
be a little a little more fleshed out with her character. And that's just me, right? Maybe her
character doesn't matter. But there are so many things in this script, like why is she willing to
go out with Larry? And even when Frank, played by Patrick Knowles, even when they do engage with each
other, at the end of the carnival scene, Gwen says, we had a quarrel and he's gone. And I'm like,
you don't seem to be in a happy relationship. And I want to know more about that. Related,
there's a really powerful scene when a group of older women, mothers, and the mother of Jenny,
the Gwen's friend who gets killed by the werewolf, Jenny's mom comes into the shop demanding answers,
demanding to see Larry. And she's so antagonistic to Gwen, essentially calling her a hussy for going
out with a man who's not her husband. Then I was like, what's this relationship? What's the history
here? Like, maybe there's a flashback to Gwen and Jenny being little girls and getting up to no good.
I don't know. But but that's something where I was like, there's more to this world that I would love
to see. Same with the bail, the bail a character. What was what? What happened there? Why is he a
four legged wolf and not a wolf man? I don't know.
Which might ask the question of if he's even a werewolf at all. Like I in research for this
episode, I read a really good review by Brian Egert, I think his name was, who makes the argument
that this is still a movie when we never really know what's real and what's not. And like what's
in Larry's head and what's even in Larry's dad had had at the end of the movie, when, you know,
seemingly what happens is so obvious to us, the audience. But like, this review makes the point
that like, maybe these inconsistencies and like, and werewolves and what they look like and their
transitions and stuff. Maybe it's intentional on the part of the movie to kind of like throw that
into question a little bit, you know, I don't know if I totally agree with that, but it is a compelling
idea for sure. Yeah. Yeah, that would be cool if like, that movie ends and a new one begins where
it's like, now his dad is questioning, did he kill a wolf or a man and it becomes this new cycle of,
you know, of like a tragedy and stuff like that, where he has to answer all these questions about
what happened on that night. Yeah, right, right. Like this story is not over. He's now probably
gonna spiral into tragedy like his son. Oh, that's also heartbreaking. Yeah. I guess I got to say
something bad about this, right? If you can. I'll try. I think it is the fact that this movie is
simple. And like you guys said, it's very kind of breakneck speed that has to move through all
these things. Because it is saying a lot in some ways, but it's like not, it doesn't have the time
to kind of let all that breathe. Even like you guys said with Frank, it's like he could have been
maybe a little bit better of like a antagonistic figure for Larry, other than just like the nature
of the curse being this like unseen antagonistic figure. Frank could have kind of filled in maybe
a bit there because it's like, you know what he has, he has a reason to be a little,
a little angry about the situation, obviously. So I wish they would have maybe flushed that out
a little bit more. And I think Matt, you kind of convinced me with a little bit with the
Cheney's performance is it's a bit kind of like goofy at the beginning, you know, it's not
exactly like this great Oscar performance. But I think for me, where that comes in is the transition
of like, when he now is dealing with the situation, I think he's a better actor when he's kind of
conveying the tragedy of Larry Talbot and that side of it. I think that's where he really kind
of, you know, like I said, maybe pulls from his own life. But at the beginning, it does come off
a little bit too kind of simple. And I think that's that's the big thing with this movie.
Like I said at the beginning, it's just simplicity might have kind of hindered some things for it.
Totally. Yeah. Okay. Some campy stuff. Actually, this is where like
Cheney's performance for me, like I don't see it so much as bad, just kind of over the top and
in that way that like he just won't take no for an answer. And it's really funny. Gwen is like,
no, no, no, I will not go to the carnival with you. And he just won't stop asking her.
And he thinks he's so charming, too. Right. He is so confident and he's really not.
It made me think of the saying, carry yourself with the confidence of a mediocre white man,
you know, perfectly applies to Larry Talbot.
I also have to give love to Jenny or poor Jenny. She shows up. She just wants a good time out with
her friend Gwen. Oh, this stud shows up. OK, I'll go have some fun with him. I'll get my palm red.
And now I'm being eaten by a wolf.
We know almost nothing about Jenny. Yeah. Another tragic character.
Well, I can go real quick. There aren't too many campy things I can think of in this movie,
or at least like the campy parts are like also like legitimately well done for the most part,
I think. I do like the fact that the movie opens with a dictionary definition of like
like can't be like can't be. I can never pronounce that. Sorry. But like, you know,
it's the equivalent of starting a speech with Webster's defines this as so I found that amusing.
There's I don't know if this is in the campy category, but there's another actually very
cool part where like Larry is kind of starting his descent into madness. And there's a big sign
and a wall behind him that says sane man, like same in products or whatever is the name of the
company. And I just love that moment. Again, I don't know if that's campy, but it's just like
really making it clear what the theme of the movie is. That's great.
And I hadn't noticed that until this rewatch. It's I mean, another example of how just like
thoughtful the set design is, you know. Yeah, I know. I want the new Wolfman movie to start
with a dictionary dictionary definition like right at the beginning now and see if I hope so.
Nine out of 10 right there. But yeah, Mr. I think it was Mr. Twittle or whatever. He's like the guy
that goes with them on the hunt. He's kind of like he kind of brings like a campy nature to it as
far as I think that was a bit more like intentional to be a little bit funnier. Yeah, like you said,
the Chinese performance at the beginning, although it was more like probably like a technical thing
from the time I do get a laugh if you like pause it at the right moment during the lap dissolves.
It's like you got Larry with this giant hair throw that he's got going on.
So some of those effects are pretty funny. But the thing that it was like a mishap for sure that
they just weren't paying attention to. I love when he first transforms and we see his feet.
He definitely takes his shirt off. And when he transforms fully into the werewolf and he
goes out at night, it's like he's back with the shirt on. So the wolf man took the time
to put that shirt back on, tuck it in and go out for a good night. He's a well-dressed monster.
He's still got a look in. Yeah. Yeah, I love that about the wolf man. He always tucks his shirt in.
The like civilized gentleman never totally leaves him, you know.
Yeah. But I agree that I love that moment. I noticed that and I was like,
ah, that's an amusing error there. Like continuity gaffe or whatever. I love that.
Yeah. Chaney said you're not putting all that yak hair all over.
Yeah. Not reshooting that.
All right. Let's give it our final ratings here. Matt, take it away again.
Yeah. This is one of my favorite parts of every episode. So we have our rating system here on
Camp Kaju. We have our top ranking. It's a timeless classic. It definitely stands the test of time.
Our second ranking is there may be some antiquated moments, but overall it's great. It stands the
test of time. Number three, it may be historically significant or just fun, but it does not stand the
test of time. And our lowest ranking, it is not worth revisiting and definitely does not stand the
test of time. Should I go first or do you guys? Yeah. Well, yeah, I'll just go real quick and
then I'll hand it over to you guys. I have a hunch we might all grade this the same way.
It's a timeless classic. It definitely stands the test of time. Like I said about Bride of
Frankenstein is my favorite Universal monster movie, but this is number two for me. There's
just so much to it. It's such a fun watch. And some of the stuff about it's maybe too short.
I wish some stuff was fleshed out a little bit more. At the same time, I would rather have a movie
that's so fascinating than I want more of it instead of the opposite. So for me, definitely
the highest ranking. Yeah. I'll go next. And Brian, you can have the last word. I will also give it
classic status. It stands the test of time. Again, acknowledging, sure, some continuity errors, blah,
blah, blah. But the fact that I still get close to tears by that ending, like that just speaks to
the artistry and the talent happening with this movie. I'm blown away by it. So it may not be on
the surface like, wow, a real horrifying movie, but sit with it. And there's a lot for it to offer.
All right. No surprise here. It's timeless classic for me. It definitely stands the test of time.
I think mostly because it's like, although I think Brighter Frankenstein, like I said,
is this more technically better film, the Wolfman's maybe close enough, but it's with that lower
runtime. If someone were to watch it now, you can sit them down for like, you're going to just tell
them, it's barely an hour. You could watch it. And I think you get a lot for what it is for the
runtime. So I think even for people today, it's like, it's one of those movies I think you can
watch and still get a lot out of it. The performances are is what I'll always go back to. I love
Cheney in it. He's my favorite kind of universal monster actor. So being this is his most focused
role. And it's always going to be kind of like my favorite one. Also, Jack Pierce's makeup, it's
kind of carries that last like 30 minutes. I think if you didn't have that, it would be like a
different movie. So I think kind of it gives you the monster. And I, like I said, in an hour,
you get one of the greatest monster movies ever told.
Ever told. Yeah. Well said, Brian. And Brian, we thank you truly for joining us on Camp Kaiju
and talking about this. It's been so enlightening and all the facts you brought and the and just
the joy. You love these movies and we do too. So thank you for helping us talk about it.
Thank you. This has been awesome. Thanks, Brian. If you, you know, it's been a pleasure if you ever
like want to join again. I mean, I shouldn't speak for Vincent there, but we'd love to have
you back at some point. Hey, you guys know where to find me if you want to reach out and, you know,
you need any kind of information or would like me on again, I'll be happy to do it. What movie would
you like to discuss on a podcast? Obviously, Universal Monsters is always going to be like my
immediate go to. I have more of that kind of locked away in here, like all that information. But
I am a huge horror fan in general slashers. Like I said, American Werewolf is also one of my favorite
movies, but that's kind of like, you know, classic monster adjacent kind of thing. So yeah, but anything
honestly, Caligari is one of my favorite silent movies. I love silent horror too. Yeah. Peter
Laurie, speaking of that, M is a great movie too, that I think a lot of people don't talk about.
Agreed on M, one of my favorite movies ever. Incredible. Yeah, in the future, we'll definitely
keep you in mind if we're talking about any of those movies. Yeah, cool. Well, before you go,
just tell our listeners who you are, where they can find you and follow you on Instagram.
Yeah. So one last time, this is Brian Rodriguez from Uni Monsters. You can find me primarily on
Instagram at at at Uni Monsters. Just share, you know, monster facts, cool monster reels,
and do a lot of cool giveaways and stuff like that. So you can find me there on Instagram or
at Uni Monsters on YouTube as well for more more horror history. Fantastic. We will put links to
those to those sites in our show notes. And Brian, take it easy, man. Thank you. Thanks, guys.
Thanks for hanging out, friends. Please rate and review wherever you listen. You can also share
this podcast with a friend and give us positive reviews, because it goes a long way. And the more
people we can get talking about classic monster movies, the better. So you can also send us
listener comments at CampKaiju at gmail.com, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube links in the show
notes. If you'd like to be a featured voice on the show, leave a voicemail at 612-470-2612.
And please check out our website, CampKaijuPodcast.com for more. Camp Kaiju is recorded in Minneapolis,
St. Paul with me in his mailbox music by Ben Cook-Felts. Thanks, friends. And until next time,
stay campy. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack powered by Cold War Banker
Realty, your source for real estate home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients and
residential buyers. Reach out to the Zach Pack today for real estate services. Follow the Zach
Pack on social media and contact the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Links in the show notes.
I'm sorry, we haven't any like that just now. Oh, yes, you have. Don't you remember?
On your dressing table up in your room. In my room? Yes. Would you mind getting them for me?
Were they not for sale? Well, I can't say that I blame you. They look so well on you.
Well, I know you think I'm crazy, but in a half an hour, the moon will rise and
I'll turn into a wolf. You and 20 million other guys. Listen, I might tear your limb from limb.
And is that serious? He'll murder you. That's serious.