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Welcome to Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Podcast. We're your hosts, Vincent Hannum and Matt

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Levine. And we're talking about all our favorite monster movies, The Good, The Bad and The

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Downright Campy and asking if they stand the test of time. Traditional Kaiju creature features

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space invaders, the supernatural and everything in between. All strange beasts welcome here.

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Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack powered by Coldwell Banker Realty,

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your source for real estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients and residential

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buyers. Reach out to the Zach Pack today for real estate services. Follow the Zach Pack

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on social media and contact the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Links in the

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show notes.

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History

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here any longer, you can't tell who'll be next.

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Ooh, boy, is it a full moon out tonight? I sure hope so, because we are talking about not just any

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werewolf movie, but the one that started it all for all intents and purposes. 1941's The Wolfman

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from Universal Studios starring Lon Chaney Jr. and a whole host of other legendary horror film

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stars, but this is Chaney's picture. And Matt, we're excited to welcome Brian Rodriguez as our

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guest host for this episode. Hey, Brian. Hey, thanks for having me. Hi, Brian. And Brian,

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can you introduce yourself and what you got going on in the universal, in the world of

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Universal Studios? Yeah, so I started a page back in 2015 called Uni Monsters, and it's a page just

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dedicated to the love of these classic, classic horror films of the early ages of film. And I

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specifically loved The Wolfman growing up. And so in 2015 ish, I was just like, you know what, I

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wonder if there's people that love all this stuff as much as I do. So let's see, let's test the the

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waters and see where this goes. And there's no really hope in it. I was just like, you know,

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let's just do it for me just for the fun of it. And it's grown into this massive thing with, you

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know, tons of followers, tons of opportunity. And that's over on Instagram at uni monsters. So it's

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been a blast just sharing like the classic universal monsters posts and reels and collaborations with

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other pages. It's it's nice to see that there's more people out there like me. I love that. That's

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basically how Camp Kaiju started. In 2020 depths of the pandemic, I got into one of my Kaiju kicks

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and realized, you know what, I wonder if they're not, not exactly I wondered if other people were

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out there, I just like wanted to talk to other people about these movies, and, and create that

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community. But of course, I love other monster movies. So Camp Kaiju just kind of expanded the

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definition of monster movies. I feel like it's a community that just loves to talk loves to share

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their ideas and their love for these movies, you know, like, every person that I've talked to,

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whether it's on the podcast, or just like at G Fest in Chicago, which Vincent and I went to a couple

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years ago, you can just sense the enthusiasm, like, you know, kind of like you said, Brian,

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like we're just in it for the love of the movies. And that's, that's great leads to a lot of awesome

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conversations for sure. Yeah, it's not something that like, you probably talked too much about

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with family over dinner table. And you're just kind of like, you're holding it in you want to,

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but it's nice to find like the fellow monster fan out there and just kind of like, be able to

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name the names and gush about all this stuff. For sure. Yeah, yeah. And that's, again, that's why

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I'm just so excited to talk about the Wolfman because it's one of it's one of the big ones.

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But before we get into all that, we have some nuts and bolts here on Camp Kaiju. We want to thank

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you all the listeners for joining us on this conversation. Please rate and review wherever

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you listen on Apple, Apple podcasts, Spotify, if you're listening to us right now, go ahead

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and leave us a positive review. You can also send us listener comments at campkaiju.gmail.com,

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our Facebook page, Instagram, YouTube. You can even leave a featured you can even leave a voicemail

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on the show at 612-470-2612 telling us about your favorite monster movies,

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your own memories with the Wolfman and other universal monsters.

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And you can check out our website campkaijupodcast.com for more reviews and special content.

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Big shout out to our patrons, Jason, Chris, Sean, our anonymous patron and Peggy. We really hope you

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enjoy this one. And we do have some comments in the bank that we will read later on the show.

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So yeah, some good things coming up. Sorry, Vincent, a quick question. Have you

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have you gotten any more voicemails since the last episode? No. All right. For some reason,

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that's the thing that I'm most excited about. I really hope that somebody leaves a comment

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for you at some point. So I'm like every recording, I'm just going to like wait and hope that it

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happens. But hasn't happened yet. People don't let Matt down.

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And, you know, like a sincere, genuine voicemail would be great also. But if you want to prank

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Vincent, that would be almost as good in my opinion. Thank you, Matt. Yeah. Well, the lines are

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open. OK, what has happened since last time we we came at you on the airwaves here?

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I thought this was interesting. Variety magazine dropped their list of 100 greatest horror movies.

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I think they've seen it previous years before. I haven't got to check time to check out this latest

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one, though. I've glanced at it. It's a good list. I like the, you know, the top 10 or so, all

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definite classics, some of my favorites as well. There are some on the list that I haven't seen

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yet. I would like to consider myself a horror completionist. I would like to be a horror

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completionist. So, you know, I have my work cut out for me, but it's a good list. Yeah. Yeah.

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And at number 81 is The Wolfman, 1941. So I just wanted to shout that out.

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That's way, way too low. Way too low. It should be a little bit higher, I think.

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Yeah, agreed. I love all the monsters, but I don't love them all equally. I will say The Wolfman

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is higher on my tier than The Mummy and The Mummy, I think, ranked in the top 20. So I was like,

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I might flip that with The Wolfman on this list, but that's just me.

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Yeah, I feel like maybe that's grading it more on like, well, I was going to say cultural impact,

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but The Wolfman has had a huge cultural impact as well in like every werewolf movie made ever

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since. So yeah, so I kind of take that back. But I'm with you, Vincent. Like, Bride of Frankenstein

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is my personal favorite Universal monster movie, but The Wolfman is probably number two.

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Nice. This is a great segue. Brian, what are what are your favorite monster movies,

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Universal or not? Oh, man. I mean, a lot of them are definitely Universal, just because

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that's what I love. It's got to be Bride of Frankenstein. Bride of Frankenstein has to be

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up there on like all the technical aspects, all the, you know, the themes and the story and

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everything. But my number one film of all time is actually The Wolfman. So I have to go with that.

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But Bride is definitely a second that I understand is like, you know, I think that technically the

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better film, but it's up there. The one that surprises people is I say Dracula is actually not

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in my top five Universal monster movies. So it's actually it goes Wolfman, Bride of Frankenstein.

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I think it's got to be Invisible Man, Frankenstein 1931. And then Frankenstein meets The Wolfman is

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just that film that I think like it gets people really into the fun of it. It's not it's not too

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serious. Yeah, I'm totally with you. I think well, we'll talk about personal histories with

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the Wolfman, but the Wolfman has long been number two. I've been a Frankenstein Wolfman guy. Same.

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And I put The Invisible Man number three. Oh, and the creature. Can't forget the Gill Man.

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We have extremely like minded top fives for Universal monster movies. Mine are very, very

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similar. So happy to hear it. And Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein. Oh, yeah, that's just

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the best. You've got everyone in that one. Son of Frankenstein, slightly underrated, in my opinion.

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Love that as well. We the list goes on and on, you know.

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All right, this is me now trying to get us back on track. So this month in monster movie history,

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it's October. Brian, this is where there's like a list of films that, you know, were released this

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month. We always just pick one to shout out. So if there's one on that little list that you wanted to

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shout out, you can do that. Yeah, I think it's definitely Candyman. I mean, that's just like

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one of those key horror films that I think everybody should watch, especially from the

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era that came out. And it was just like it's kind of like the unique horror film of that decade,

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because there wasn't very much going on in the 90s. But I think Candyman is one of those standout

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kind of like influential films that that really had a lot behind it. I'm really glad you say that.

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I haven't seen it yet, but it's it's recently crossed my radar as a cultural touchstone.

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So yeah, cool. What about you, Matt?

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Well, first, just let me say that I also love Candyman. Happy to hear that you like it also,

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Brian, and the remake from a couple of years ago was better than I expected as well.

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There are definitely some classics on this list, not surprisingly, classic horror movies that came

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out in the month of October. I think I'm going to go all the way back to 1932 with The Old Dark

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House by James Whale, who we were kind of indirectly just talking about because he directed

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the original Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, a lot of other movies as well. But The Old Dark

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House before Bride of Frankenstein, I think kind of nails the blend of comedy and horror

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and the technical kind of prowess that he would bring to Bride of Frankenstein a couple years later.

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Short, it's kind of a classic haunted house story, but there's so much more to it. So,

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yeah, definitely check that out. The Old Dark House by James Whale is great.

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I will shout out The Black Scorpion from 1955. This is a movie I saw recently.

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It is a big bug movie from the 50s. But the scorpions are animated by Willis O'Brien,

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the man behind King Kong and Ray Harryhausen's mentor. And I just realized the actor who stars

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in that is Richard Denning, and he was the husband of Evelyn Anchors, who stars in The Wolfman.

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So there you go.

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It's always a small world. Like when we do these podcast recordings, just like unexpected

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connections between like modern movies and like whatever we're talking about and just like,

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the whole world of horror cinema. It's great. I love it.

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And I believe he was in Creature from the Black Lagoon.

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Definitely. He was the hot headed rival for the for the woman's affections. Yeah.

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That film celebrating its 70th anniversary this year, which is wild. No. Yeah, 70 years.

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Yeah. Yeah. Well, speaking of the Creature from the Black Lagoon, so

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I just happen to see it's playing at select Alamo draft houses the last weekend of October

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in 3D. So if you have an Alamo draft house in your area,

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just go see it, please.

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We're always showing some great stuff over there.

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Yeah. And for local folks here in the Twin Cities, the uninvited, a superb haunted house ghost story

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from the 40s is playing at the Heights Theater in Minneapolis on Monday. Well, this coming. Well,

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yeah, Monday, October 28th. That's one of my favorite non-monster classic Hollywood horror

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movies. The effects in that are fantastic. And it's still genuinely scary. I've seen that movie a

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couple of times and chills me to the bone. It's great.

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I have a funny story about that, actually. I was watching that film

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probably about, I think it had to be 2020. And I was just watching it at night and I was just like

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putting on the Criterion Blu-ray version that was actually beautiful. And I just put the disc into

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my player and I'm just like watching it in the dark. And suddenly everything just shuts off during

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like a scene where like some of the spirit, like the spirit was communicating and stuff. And I was

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just like, all right, time for bed after that. That's it. I think that's time to go to bed.

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That's it. I think that's time to call it quits. Maybe I'll finish the rest of the morning.

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Wow. Perfect timing, man.

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I love that. Oh, that's spooky.

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And yeah, I mean, again, like there are some really creepy shots in that movie. So I feel

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like I can picture the exact moment that all the lights went off and like the power went off

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wherever you were watching it. Like I feel like I know like the scariest part of the movie, you know?

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Yeah. Well, coming up on Camp Kaiju, not a noted classic, but we're having another special Magic

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and Monsters episode where I represent Camp Kaiju and and Patrick Kazaki. You know, he likes to

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guest on Camp Kaiju and he has his own podcast, Gaze Do the D, where they talk about Disney things

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and Disney movies. Well, he and I have recorded a special episode on the Sony Marvel movie,

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Morbius, actually well known for not being a good movie. In fact, it's it's kind of terrible. But

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in that we have fun just with a little episode. So you can expect that next week. And then

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our following getting back to our regular programming is God told me to. And Matt,

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this was your pick. Can you expand on that a little bit? Yeah, for sure. I kind of intentionally

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chose a movie that I don't really know very well. I've never seen it before, which is always kind

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of a risk, but it can pay off sometimes. It's directed by Larry Cohen, who's a director I like

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a lot. He directed the stuff. It's alive. Q, the winged serpent, some other really good sort of

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campy, but also like, you know, legitimately well made horror movies. And God told me to is kind of

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a satire of like religious cults. And as far as I know, like the figurehead of the cult in this movie

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is sort of like an alien monster, essentially. That's all I know about it. So we'll see how it

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is kind of a shot in the dark. I apologize in advance if it's really, really bad, because that

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could be. We could just call this Matt's mystery picks. We never know what we're going to get.

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Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I would lead us astray, but I like that idea.

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Okay, I'm all for it. I'm excited for God told me to. And then we're going to follow that up with

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another God movie, Godzilla minus one. Which I just heard is going to be re released in US cinemas

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November 1st. So if you didn't get a chance to catch it last year like me, well, now's your chance.

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Maybe because this is the 70th anniversary of the original Godzilla. I would assume that's probably

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why or the year as a whole is the anniversary. Yeah, and actually almost to the day the original

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was released November 3rd. Oh, yeah, I'm sure that's why that. All right, let's get down to

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some more humanoid monsters. The Wolfman. What are our personal histories with this film? Early on,

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I saw this on AMC. AMC is doing their fear fest or they do that thing where they just show a bunch

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of horror movies during October. Yeah, right. Fest or the yeah, fear fest, something like that.

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And back in the day when I was in like fifth grade in, that was like elementary school. I was just

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like, they're showing the movies like slasher movies and all that. But in the mornings, they

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would show classic universal monster movies. And so I would kind of just wake up early in the morning

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on the weekends and watch some of those. And one of the first ones I saw was the Wolfman. And it

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really just like spoke to me as a fifth grader who, you know, was, I think his body was starting to

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change and there's some kind of like parallels you can draw there maybe with, you know, puberty and

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this whole Wolfman thing. But yeah, I really loved them. And no one in my family was like showing me

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these movies. I was just like drawn to them on my own for some reason. And that's kind of where it

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all started for me. That's awesome. I had seen this movie quite a while ago. I feel like maybe like

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15 years ago and I hadn't seen it since then. I liked it a lot, of course, when I first saw it.

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But I guess at the time, like universal classic monster movies weren't something that I grabbed

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it's something that I gravitated towards. And like I like gotten more into them and like horror I've

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like really embraced over the years. So to be totally honest, like I had only seen this movie

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once before rewatching it for this recording. And I knew I liked it. I did not remember liking it as

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much as I did this time around. Nice. I don't remember not ever knowing about this movie. So

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I was definitely in elementary school as well. And I remember playing on AMC and I recorded it.

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I remember being the Wolfman for Halloween one year when I was definitely younger than 10.

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We got a bunch of, you know, fake hair and you spirit gum all over my body. I remember that.

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And now I'm like, huh, maybe I can relate to Lon Chaney's process there. But anytime I was sick

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in school, like elementary school, I got to stay home on my recorded tapes, I would always play

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Frankenstein, the Wolfman, and then Frankenstein meets the Wolfman. And then my mom would come

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home and that was my day. So it didn't happen a lot, but a few times I was like, those were my go

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to monster movies. I love that story. It's like a formative influence for you. Yeah, but I hadn't

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seen it. The last time I saw it was 2020. So it had been a few years and yeah, it was nice to

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revisit it as an older person now, because I think some of the themes change. Or certainly,

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I'm definitely relating to different things now as I was, you know, as a fifth grader.

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The lion.

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When this dead hand moves, the monster created by a man they called mad is turned loose to

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strike terror into the hearts of men, to shock women into uncontrolled hysteria,

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to prey upon the innocence of children. This is the story you've heard about, talked about,

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the spine tingling, blood chilling story that stunned your emotions. Frankenstein.

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The nation's top comics, Abbot and Costello petrified, but hilariously.

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Plus the dangerous and terrifying Wolfman played by Lon Chaney. Plus that theme

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that fiend out of a nightmare, the vampire Batman Count Dracula played by Bela Lugosi.

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Plus the most dreaded creature of them all, the Frankenstein monster played by Glenn Strange.

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Plus a couple of luscious but designing females in the spookiest laugh best on record.

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So let us continue with the production history of this film. We'll carry on. So the producer

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and director of the film is George Wagner. He was just a studio director, a long career,

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but best known for directing horror, western and war films. He had just directed Lon Chaney in the

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previous universal horror film, Man-Made Monster from 1941. It was written by Kurtzi Odmak,

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who penned many horror stories and screenplays, including Donovan's Brain, I Walked with the

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Zombie, The Beast with Five Fingers, Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman, and it should be noted,

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Kurtzi Odmak essentially invented the modern werewolf mythology with this screenplay.

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The cinematography

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is by Joseph Valentine. He was a five-time Oscar nominated cinematographer and a one-time winner

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for Joan of Arc in 1949. He was a frequent collaborator with Alfred Hitchcock on movies

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like Saboteur, Shadow of a Doubt, and Rope. Most of Hitchcock's movies, of course, are extremely

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visually stunning, but Rope and Shadow of a Doubt, like up there, like two of the most visually

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incredible, I would say, throughout his career. So really, really great cinematographer, Joseph Valentine.

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Yeah, and I think coupled with Jack Otterson's art direction in The Wolfman,

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that's something I noticed now that I never noticed when I was younger was this movie looks

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really good. Like the shadows and the lighting, everything in the forest, but all the interior

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scenes, like in the antique store, like there's something really soft yet crisp about the black

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and white in this movie. It doesn't just feel like a B movie. It has some prestige behind it.

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It's crazy to think that a lot of those forest scenes were on like a, you know, the sound stage,

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what they were able to do with that. It was crazy. I would just imagine being able to be on one of

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those sound stages full of fog and the trees and everything. They look fantastic.

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Yeah, it's like, and I love that it feels, it looks like a sound stage, but it doesn't distract me at all.

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Like in Frankenstein at the end of the 31 movie, when it's clearly on there, like in the mountains,

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but there's like a fabric depicting the sky. I feel like the technology had improved by The Wolfman.

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It's like, this is a set, but it's not obviously on a set sound stage.

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And I think nowadays, like there's just something so vivid and like fantastic about that look.

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Like I think the fact that it's not totally realistic just adds to it. And this is a perfect

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movie to watch in mid-October. It's like absolute Halloween vibes, you know, just like, yeah, like

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foggy kind of dark forests, eerie, shadowy. Like this is like synonymous with classic horror,

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you know, the look of the film.

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Makeup by Jack Pierce, of course, created the classic universal monster looks for many of the characters.

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Frankenstein, the mummy, even previously, Werewolf of London before this one.

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Definitely a perfectionist, but kind of, you know, that did make him a little bit more brutal as far

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as his methods and, you know, seriousness, but kind of made him a professional at the same time.

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But he was a true master that inspired a lot of people now, like Rick Baker and many more.

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For sure. Yeah, like his makeup for Frankenstein's monster, I mean, that's a cultural legend, you know,

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what I mean? Like, I feel like when everybody thinks about Frankenstein, the image of that

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monster, Boris Karloff from 1931, I feel like for most people is still what comes to mind right away.

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And that's Jack Pierce, but like behind that, that's such a huge influence on like the American

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cultural legacy, you know?

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Yeah, he was, he was, I guess, difficult to work with because of his perfectionist attitude. So,

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you know, there's pros and cons to that. But I was watching and a lot of my notes are going to come

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from the DVD audio commentary of The Wolfman by Tom Weaver, the horror film historian. And he said

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that on set, Jack Pierce would make fun of Lon Chaney, like to him, like just, you know, making

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fun of him because he didn't have the same makeup talents as his father, Lon Chaney, senior, you

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know, Chaney had his own difficulties on set. But, you know, he and Jack Pierce did not get along.

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There's that classic image of Chaney in the makeup chair. And, you know, he's making that fist at

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Jack Pierce, like he's gonna whack him. He's probably just tired of being singed with the

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hot iron, trying to curl those. That's right. Yeah. So they were, they would use yak hair,

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and they would kind of like, Pierce would layer it on and then kind of like curl it. And that's how

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they got the look of it. But he would curl it with a hot iron. So he would just sometimes like,

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probably burn Lon Chaney, junior, and you'd kind of annoy him with that. And doing that for a couple

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hours, I'm sure he got a little bit tired of that. Yeah. And like if every day they had to shoot,

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or not every day, but like whenever Lon Chaney, junior had to get the makeup applied, he would

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be like a four or five hour process to put it on and then like a one hour process to like,

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take it off at the end of shooting. So if you're spending that much time in a room with somebody,

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you're probably going to be like sort of annoyed with them eventually at some point, you know, so

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it's yeah, like it sounds like it's the perfect combination of like, frustrating circumstances

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and two sort of like difficult personalities at the same time. Well, let's talk more about Lon

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Chaney, junior. There's so much to say, I think that we could record for an hour about Lon Chaney,

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junior himself, but the Wolfman was his. It wasn't his first film. It was maybe his breakout

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role. It was his second monster from horror film at Universal. His first was that manmade monster,

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as previously mentioned, but he had made a name for himself in of Mice and Men in onstage and in

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the film in 1936, I believe. Nope, 1939. But he's obviously the son of Lon Chaney, the very famous,

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well known star of the silent era, or icon in his own right, starred in Phantom of the Opera,

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The Hunchback of Notre Dame and many others. And he, the father, did not want his son to follow in

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his footsteps. I think Lon Chaney, junior had a career as a plumber at one point, but after

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his father passed away in the 1930s, I think. Yeah, like right before Dracula. That's right,

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because he was going to be cast as Dracula. What could have been? That's all right. Bella

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Lugosi is just fine. But we'll get to we'll get to Bella Lugosi. Lon Chaney, junior was going by

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that his name, his birth name Creighton Chaney, but he found that doors opened more easily if he

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changed his name to Lon Chaney, junior. So much to his chagrin. He did do that. And a legend was born.

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Yeah, I was recently watching the film again in preparation and I was just like,

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to me, I would have gave him an Oscar for this performance. I really love his like,

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at the beginning, he's very, you know, cheerful, has a positive outlook and he's able to just kind

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of like switch it in a moment where he's just like, this very depressing kind of, you know,

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mentality where he's just like being bogged down by all this stuff that's happening around him.

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So I think he's actually a really fantastic actor. And to the makeup process, like a point to that

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is like, I think when he thought about his dad's work, he was able to kind of endure more time with

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with some of those annoyances. Because I think he realized how great of work his father did and

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had in DUR as well. You know, initially, I had some reservations about his performance. But the

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more I think about it, I do think kind of like Brian was saying, it's sort of intentional,

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like how kind of rough the performance seems at first. That's maybe I'll say for now,

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I'll talk more about that later. For sure. Some final notes on Lon Chaney, junior. You know,

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he was a big star at Universal throughout the 40s. He started in all the actually he started all the

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major monsters, the mummy Frankenstein's monster Dracula. But he did play the Wolfman and all of

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its subsequent sequels. However, in the 50s and 60s, and then he died in the 1970s, he really

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transitioned to supporting roles in a lot of low budget westerns and horrors. His his career did

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not end the way Vincent Price's did or Boris Karloff even. So so Chaney had some demons.

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He was a heavy drinker, heavy smoker. And you can see that reflected, I think, in the the end of his

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career. But with all that said, he is a legend. And, and has some really good work to his name.

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Yeah, I think he related a lot with Larry Talbot as far as like this this tragedy of a story that

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is, you know, that was his life in a sense a little bit there towards the end. But but he did love the

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character. It was like his baby. So I do think he did kind of relate with a lot of that that tragedy

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that you find in the film. Yeah, especially that father son relationship. You think, you know, how

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does that mirror his own relationship with his own father and living up to family legacy?

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Yeah, there's a lot there. Yeah, yeah. And you guys would know better than me. I haven't seen any of

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the other except for Eben Castello Meet the Wolfman. I haven't seen any of the other Wolfman movies

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like but his performances as the character after this movie are a little bit more comedic, right?

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Maybe more like tongue in cheek kind of parodic most of the time, like more so than this movie.

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Is that correct? I don't think so. I think those movies like House of Dracula, House of Frankenstein,

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there can be, but I don't think they're played for laughs the way Abbott and Castello is. Would you

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agree, Brian? Yeah, I think that in that movie, it takes it a little bit further. But I think it

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only becomes more comedic, I think, because at that point, the tropes just become like cemented by

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that point. So it's just like it's kind of he's playing the same situation essentially every time

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he comes back. Yeah, right. So when I watch those movies, it's just Larry Talbot just becomes,

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to me, more and more of a sad case with each movie. He's like, he really becomes one dimensional.

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He just wants to end his own life. And he doesn't have any of that nuance he has in this first movie.

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I'm excited to watch future installments or the later installments. But yeah, I was just curious

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like if his performance in this movie is significantly different than his performance

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in later as the Wolfman in later movies, but it sounds like he brings a kind of like gravity

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to it, regardless of what particular movie is in. Yeah, I think that's a good point.

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He's in. Yeah, he takes it very seriously. But there are other actors in this movie,

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believe it or not. And we'll start with Evelyn Anchors or Evelyn Anchors. I have heard both.

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So I'm going to say anchors because Tom Weaver says anchors on the DVD commentary.

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But anchors plays Gwen Conniff, the romantic interest in this movie. But anchors herself was

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an English actress who made her name for herself in Universal Horror films. She did not want to be

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in horror movies. She took herself very seriously more than these. But what do you know, she became

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known as Queen of the Bees. And she ended up starring in six films with Lon Chaney, Jr. despite

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them not getting along at all on set. But she was in Son of Dracula, Ghost of Frankenstein,

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Weird Woman from Universal, which I just had to shout out there. Great title. Yeah.

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How about Claude Rains? Yeah, I can talk about Claude Rains a little bit. He plays Larry's father,

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Sir Talbot, a very wealthy kind of socialite. Claude Rains was an English actor, four time

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Oscar nominee for best supporting actor. Well known from a lot of classics, Casablanca, Hitchcock's

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Notorious among them. But there's another Universal Horror connection as well in the sense that Claude

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Rains played the invisible man in 1933. His first movie. I was not aware of that. That's cool. Wow.

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He's great in that. Yeah. He's great in this, I think, too. Like aside from the height discrepancy,

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I think the relationship between Lon Chaney, Jr. and Claude Rains is really compelling in this

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movie, especially in the ending, which I won't give away right now. But like you guys said,

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maybe kind of mirrors Lon Chaney, Jr.'s own relationship with his father a little bit.

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And yeah, Claude Rains gives a small but very convincing and effective performance here.

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Yeah, I was going to say, I want to see Larry's mom now to see what she looked like because I

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don't really see much of him in Claude Rains, but he's a great actor and they do play off each other

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pretty well. And then you can't help but hear the invisible man talking to the wolf man, essentially.

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Yeah. Well, I would close my eyes sometimes and just imagine Jack Griffin in that movie.

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In that. Yeah. Brian, you want to talk about any of the other actors?

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Yeah, let's do I'm probably going to butcher this. Maria Upenskaya as Maliva, the gypsy woman who

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is a Russian born actress and two time Oscar winner or Oscar nominee. It's studied with

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Stans. Stan is a blockly. Just a just a whole butchering of names here at the Moscow Art

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Theatre and in Hollywood became a well-respected acting coach. She's actually like and she's in

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Frankenstein meets the Wolfman as well. And she's essentially just playing kind of like the same

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thing, kind of like what Chaney does later on, where you kind of just go through the motions of

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it. But but in this movie, she really sells like the kind of like the depressing nature of like

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the curse and everything and and what it's like to care for these people that are that are going

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through it. She does play like a really great like mother figure to to to Chaney's Talbot.

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Yeah, I was I was very impressed with their performance in this. And Brian, I apologize.

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I threw you under the bus there with these Russian names. I went to school for acting.

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So Stanislavsky is the Russian director teacher who whose teachings eventually gave us the method

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acting that actors still use today. So there you go. Theater history useful after all.

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I majored in film studies, so I'm not I'm not making fun of you with that. I yeah,

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you can make fun of it. It's all fascinating. So yeah, it's OK.

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Did Bela Lugosi use any method acting in this film?

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He truly got into the head of his Roma character, his gypsy character.

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He has such a small role in this movie. He auditioned to play the wolf man, the main

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character, but instead he was cast in what almost as a cameo he's on screen so briefly. But

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of course, horror legends. He played Dracula in 1931, obviously, you know, maybe kind of like

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Lon Chaney Jr. Like you were saying before, Vincent, like Bela Lugosi's later career did

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not live up to the early heights of his career. You know, he was in Plan 9 from outer space,

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for example. But, you know, such a distinct screen presence, especially in these early

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Universal Horror monster movies. I think it's great in this movie, you know,

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small but mighty part. Yeah, he's he's a when I was younger, I think I

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didn't even now because we're fans of it and all that we we know it's Lugosi. But as a kid,

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I think he kind of like does hide himself pretty well in this role and and sets it apart from

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things he's done like Igor and all that. I would have loved to see a prequel starring Lugosi and

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see where his wolf character came from. Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. I think I think what

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you said, then you mentioned Igor, I think that's actually his best role of anything. Yeah.

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Because he made you watch him in a lot of supporting roles at this time in the 40s. And

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you realize, oh, maybe he's like a really good supporting role type of actor who could lose

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himself in makeup and accents and things. So, yeah, I don't know. He didn't really get the

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the star treatment after the after Dracula after the 30s. But, you know, we still love him. And I

376
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love that his name his character name is Bela. It was meant to be. Sead Mack went.

377
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,200
I'm not going to think too hard about this.

378
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:26,760
OK, rounding out the cast, just some names that other classic film lovers may know. Ralph Bellamy,

379
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:32,600
Captain Paul Monford and Patrick Knowles as Frank, who is

380
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:43,320
anchors is engaged. Well, Anchors is sorry, Gwen, played by Evelyn Anchors, is engaged to Frank,

381
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:48,200
played by Patrick Knowles. Yeah, he Frank seems kind of surprising. He's a very

382
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:53,480
yeah, he Frank seems kind of surprisingly OK with Larry just like swooping in and trying to take his

383
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,920
girl. He's like, I want to, you know, I'm not going to be jealous. I'm going to be friends with this

384
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,960
guy. It's like, wow, it's mighty, mighty big of you, Frank. You know, it's a little surprising.

385
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,440
Every time I watch this movie, I feel like I'm waiting for him, like it's going to change or

386
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:11,000
something to like shake his hand when they first meet. And I'm like, he just keeps staring at his

387
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:20,920
cane. And I'm just like, wow, this guy's kind of rude. Yeah, understandably so. Yeah, I have I have

388
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:29,480
thoughts about the Frank character. Later on, later on, this is like the the werewolf movie that set

389
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:35,800
the tone for others to come. It was not the first werewolf movie that is Werewolf of London from

390
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:44,440
nineteen thirty five. And in fact, Universal had thought about making a werewolf movie for Boris

391
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:51,480
Karloff. But this was a genre without precedent. Hollywood really hadn't done this. Filmmakers

392
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:58,840
hadn't done a werewolf movie before. So I think. With the failed Karloff project and then Werewolf

393
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:04,760
of London, which was not a financial success, I think Universal and these guys were like really

394
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:10,680
trying to figure out the the chemistry there. They obviously nailed it with the Wolfman, but

395
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:16,040
that's that's that's a it's a very brief history of werewolf movies up until this point.

396
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:22,600
Kurtz Yadmak, as Matt, you said he had emigrated to the US in nineteen thirty seven, German Jew of

397
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:29,240
Polish descent. The Wolfman was his big break in Hollywood and everything he writes in this movie,

398
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:38,520
Bull Moons, Silver Weapons, Wolfsbane. He made all that up. Which is astounding that that is so baked

399
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:45,000
into our culture and it comes from this movie. Even that poem that they recite several times

400
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,400
throughout the movie, which sounds convincingly like a very old poem, he made that up, too.

401
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:54,680
So pretty impressive. Yeah, I've heard some stories where people are like citing stuff that

402
00:44:54,680 --> 00:45:03,640
that was made for this movie as like, you know, folklore and like, you know, ancient text or

403
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:09,160
something. I'm like, I think that was probably just from the movie. And you see it cited other

404
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:14,440
places and it's just it's it's funny to to see that people actually think this stuff existed

405
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:20,440
way before this movie. A sign of good writing, I think, you know. Well, speaking of the writing.

406
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:25,320
Yeah, totally. The script went through a lot of changes throughout the production of the film.

407
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:31,080
Up until shooting, the story focused way more heavily on the psychological mystery of Larry's

408
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:36,840
werewolfism. Initial drafts, you know, the audience wasn't really supposed to know if he

409
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:42,440
really was a werewolf or if it was all going on inside of his head. Many of these elements

410
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:48,520
really do remain present and really fascinating, I think, in the final film and possibly explain

411
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:54,680
the discrepancy between Bella's wolf like werewolf and Chaney's two legged wolf man.

412
00:45:55,720 --> 00:46:00,600
So there's a sense of like narrative logic and consistency there. You know, it's understandable

413
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:06,200
that the studio, you know, after the initial drafts of the screenplay was like, no, you need

414
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:11,240
to have an actual werewolf in this movie. So they like added those scenes and like, probably a good

415
00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:16,360
thing in the long run. But I do admire that C.O.D. Max original drafts of the script were a lot more

416
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:22,360
ambiguous as to whether any of this was actually happening or if it was just a product of insanity

417
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:27,400
in the main character's head. It reminds you of Cat People, which was made the year after the

418
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:34,360
Wolfman. Absolutely. Another one of my favorites. Yeah, it was funny to see that the wolf man

419
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,760
doesn't actually show up to like the last 30 minutes of this movie. So it's like you can kind

420
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,480
of see where that other script where it was mostly that previous script and then, you know, maybe

421
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,320
last minute there, like, you know what, you got to show the monster. I mean, obviously, I'm glad

422
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:53,480
they did because the monster makeup and appearance is like so legendary in this movie and and still

423
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:58,920
really effective, I think. So this is maybe one case where like making concessions to like make

424
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:04,120
the audience happy probably actually did improve the movie a little bit. But but at the same time,

425
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:08,760
I mean, that theme of like, you know, what is real and what is going on inside of Larry's head is

426
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:14,440
still very, very much in this movie and probably the main theme, I would say. Let's talk about that

427
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:23,320
transformation then into actual werewolf. This was used through the the film technique of lap

428
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:28,920
dissolves in a nutshell, I'll try to simplify it for my simple brain. Jack Pierce would

429
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:38,040
progressively layer on more and more of the makeup of the hair. And while he's doing that,

430
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:43,800
they would film a few seconds of Cheney's face, for instance. And then they'd stop filming,

431
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:49,160
and then Jack Pierce would apply more makeup, and so on and so forth. This process of the lap

432
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:57,240
dissolves took up to 10 hours for seconds mere seconds of wolfman transformation in the film.

433
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:01,960
Yeah, like you and then you know, so you would have the end of one shot and like the beginning

434
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:06,120
of the next shot, like momentarily kind of on screen at the same moment, which is how you get

435
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:11,880
that impression of like, you know, things seemingly changing like before your very eyes,

436
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:17,000
even though obviously that's not the case. But yeah, I mean, a long painstaking process.

437
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:23,720
It definitely got better as the movies went on. And then they figured out better ways to shoot it,

438
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:28,040
especially in the in the sequel, Frankenstein meets the wolfman, he has that like pillow behind

439
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:33,800
him. And it kind of creates a easier background for it not to be like, well, we got to remember

440
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:39,960
how everything was placed and all that. So less discrepancies and stuff. But it's still a cool

441
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:45,960
effect that I think people even in like spoofs and stuff. Now you see it like people just replicate

442
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:51,640
that that look of the lap dissolve just to kind of like poke fun and and connect it back to the

443
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:58,760
classics. And it works. It doesn't look cheesy. It doesn't look bad. It's just like, OK, that's

444
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:08,600
how they did it. And it works for me. So bring it back to this art designer, Jack Otterson.

445
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,560
We talked about him earlier with the fog and the forest sets that he designed.

446
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:20,200
This is just some fun trivia. Now, the the fog that they used at the time in Hollywood

447
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:27,640
was toxic. It's not the dry ice stuff that we use now. And Evelyn anchors had fallen on the

448
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:35,000
floor of that set. And she was lost in the fog because it was so thick. And then everyone went,

449
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:40,840
oh crap, where's Evelyn? She's somewhere in the fog. She's going to die. We need to find her.

450
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,880
They did find her, obviously, but she kind of went through it on this film. And there's some

451
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:51,160
other bits of trivia we'll talk about here. But yeah, the price to be paid for art.

452
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:55,080
Yeah, I love to be on these sets, but they definitely sound like dangerous places.

453
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:02,280
Yeah, sort of on that note, I mean, that leads into the next. There was another

454
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:07,960
scene that was shot at the carnival where Larry wrestles a bear, basically, trying to like

455
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:13,320
convey his like transformation into a wild beast. The scene was actually filmed, but it's not

456
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:18,840
included in the final movie. But at one point on set, the bear broke loose and chased again,

457
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:24,200
Evelyn anchors until the handler could stop the bear. So, yeah, I mean, like you said,

458
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:29,240
anchors did not have a very good time during the making of this movie, passing out from toxic gas

459
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:31,800
chased by bears. You never know where you're going to get into.

460
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:39,400
I wish that that deleted scene existed of Lon Chaney Jr. fighting a bear.

461
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:45,960
I think there's an image out there for sure. And then you can kind of see a little bit of it

462
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:52,120
in the original trailer, but that's about it. And yeah, I wish I wish they would have had the whole

463
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,960
thing in there. It would have been it would have definitely would have been cool. And it was still

464
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:01,080
on that line. And I think that's the only thing that's left. And I think that's the only thing

465
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,280
that's left. And I think that's the only thing that's left. And I think that that was still on

466
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:09,240
that line of like, it would have given a little bit more action prior to him turning into the

467
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:15,800
werewolf and still being in that line of like, well, is he or isn't he? Yeah, yeah. I think

468
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:23,880
as Weber describes it on the commentary, they took it out because up until that point, Larry Talbot

469
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:31,240
was not and the decision was made that to depict him as like the savage person would have been too

470
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:36,840
far out of the character they had established up until that point. Yeah, I could see that point. I

471
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,760
do think though, like, if you need a little something to kind of bridge the gap between

472
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:45,320
the psychological stuff and then just, he kind of just turned into a werewolf, like kind of

473
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:53,000
suddenly. Maybe. Yeah, I think I think you're right, too. I mean, who's to say but what a

474
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:58,040
horrible scene it would have been. Yeah, and I'm surprised to hear that reason for taking it out

475
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:02,680
because I was going to get into this later a little bit. But at first, I find Larry such an

476
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:07,720
unlikable character, like, especially the fact that he's like, spying on this woman through a

477
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:11,720
telescope into her bedroom, like through her bedroom window, like, he doesn't seem like the

478
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:15,480
best guy in the world from the start of the movie. And like, at first, that was something I didn't

479
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:20,600
like so much about it. But the more I think about it, I'm like, oh, I think that's one of the points

480
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,440
that I'm going to make about the movie. But I'll wait to talk more about that. I'll get more into

481
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:25,240
that later.

482
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:35,000
For sure. It was released in December of 1941. It was extremely popular, spawned several Wolfman

483
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:43,960
sequels that continue the story of Larry Talbot's search for eternal rest, which is essentially his

484
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:50,520
own death. Every following movie is about him trying to kill himself, which is actually a

485
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:58,680
great movie. I'd look maybe we'll talk about those movies at some point. But a tremendous legacy,

486
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:06,920
obviously. And Universal released a remake in 2010 with Benicio del Toro as Larry Talbot and Anthony

487
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:16,040
Hopkins as Sir John, which was still very much in the the Gothic Victorian mold. But this January,

488
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:23,400
Benicio del Toro and Blumhouse, I believe, are releasing another Wolfman adaptation. How do you

489
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:24,440
feel about that, Brian?

490
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:32,840
Um, I, I like 2010. As far as like the design and the look of it, it's going to be interesting to

491
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:40,520
have this story told with like a definitive modern, like modernization of it because it's like, based

492
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:48,440
on what modernization looks like contemporary. I'm down for it because I do like Lee Whannell and I

493
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:53,160
did like his Invisible Man as far as like the themes and where he took it to, you know, making

494
00:53:53,160 --> 00:54:00,360
these movies, horror movies, which they were and they are. So I'm, I'm up for it. I'll give it a

495
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,640
shot and then I'll hold my judgment until I check it out.

496
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:10,440
Yeah, took the words right out of my mouth. That's, that's how I feel. All right. Well, this is a

497
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:18,840
wrap for our sponsor break. We'll get into that. Uh, read some listener comments and do a quick bit

498
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:23,640
of trivia here and then we'll get into our themes and our personal breakdowns.

499
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:29,880
Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack powered by Coldwell Banker Realty,

500
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:34,760
your source for real estate, home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients and residential

501
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:39,880
buyers. Reach out to the Zach Pack today for real estate services. Follow the Zach Pack on social

502
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:45,480
and contact the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Links in the show notes.

503
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:52,040
And Meanie's mailbox is brought to you by Patreon. If you become a patron,

504
00:54:52,680 --> 00:55:00,920
then your comments are tops. And what I did today was I asked our followers on Instagram

505
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:09,400
to share their thoughts and memories about the Wolfman from Brandy Gibby. She says,

506
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:14,360
I used to not care for this movie when I was younger, but I like it more now with every new

507
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:20,600
watch. Yeah, I get that Brandy. That's definitely what happens with me. I'm like, you just keep

508
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:25,320
watching this movie. I could put it on like so many times now, like maybe twice a day and just

509
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:29,960
kind of like, even if it's on in the background, I'm like, this is just like a good vibe movie.

510
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:39,880
And Brandy actually a big part of the Universal Monsters Universe page as well. Yeah, big fan of

511
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:47,240
Brandy. And I feel you too. I feel like this time when I watched the Wolfman, I was paying attention

512
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:53,560
to the other actors in the cast and like Evelyn Anchors. And I was like, wow, she's doing some

513
00:55:53,560 --> 00:56:00,360
really good work. So yeah, it's just that idea of finding something new with each time you watch it.

514
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:11,160
Matt, do you want to do our trivia honors? Sure. Yeah. So on the last episode that we had trivia

515
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:17,240
was Planet of the Apes, the Tim Burton version from 2001. So our trivia question from that episode

516
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:24,200
was Planet of the Apes was nominated for three Razzie Awards, the film one to worst remake or

517
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:30,840
sequel and worst supporting actor awarded to which member of the supporting cast or which members,

518
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:37,400
right? It was two, I believe two winners or losers as the case might be. I'm a little confused.

519
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:45,560
Well, I looked it up and found Estella Warren, but Naomi's answer was Charlton Hester. I feel

520
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:50,840
like maybe they were both nominated and Estella Warren won. I feel like maybe that's what happened.

521
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:56,920
That's okay. I think we will accept both answers and we will reveal our winner for the Planet of

522
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:05,560
the Apes trivia that goes to Jojo Lizzie on Instagram. So Jojo, go ahead and reach out to

523
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:12,840
us at CampKaiju at gmail.com. That way you and I can communicate and get the details around your

524
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:20,200
merch order, around your address, and you can visit CampKaiju.threadlist.com and choose whatever

525
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:26,600
you would like for us to send you. So there you go. Thank you, Jojo Lizzie and thank you,

526
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:33,000
everyone else for playing along. Nice. I mean, you know, it feels kind of unfair for those two in

527
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:37,000
particular to be called out. Like they're not great in the movie, but nobody really is in Planet of

528
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:44,440
the Apes. So it seems a little bit unfair, but yeah, it's understandable at the same time.

529
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:49,160
Poor Charlton Hester, though, you know, like he's in the original. Like how are you going to do that

530
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:57,720
to him? Seems a little cruel. Damn you, Razzie Awards. Are you ready to play the trivia that

531
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:12,440
shall it the world? All right. So our question this week in the Wolfman from 1941, which ominous

532
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:19,400
flora described as deadly when in bloom is central to the werewolf legend and the transformation into

533
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:26,440
the creature? There you go. Folks, get your answers in, comment on your favorite podcatcher on our

534
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:35,320
on our Instagram, email us and all those links are in our show notes. Remember that your answer gets

535
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:43,800
you into the pot and we will reveal our winner on God told me to. So get those Wolfman answers in.

536
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:55,240
We'll see you next time for the trivia that shall it the world.

537
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:05,080
And now we hand it over to Peter Laurie, who is is doing a great job of reviewing

538
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:09,000
silent monster movies. So that's awesome. I love it. That sounds great.

539
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:14,840
His reviews are getting a little bit more off the rails, I think, as time goes on, but he's doing

540
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:19,960
good work. He's trying. Yeah, he's he's trying. He's trying to keep the madness at bay. Sounds

541
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:27,480
like Peter Laurie. Yeah, not totally successfully. I might add. Yeah, but he's going to talk about the

542
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:35,320
1926 movie Faust directed by F.W. Murnau, one of my favorites for now. Yeah, love that gorgeous

543
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:47,400
movie. Terrifying movie. Before Karloff and Legosi stocked the screens, the movies were no less

544
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:55,480
monstrous. These frightful figures lurked in the expressionistic shadows and danced in the macabre

545
00:59:55,480 --> 01:00:03,160
moonlight. Oh, they laughed and cried. They fooled the sensibilities of honest, decent folk.

546
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:09,960
In the age of silent pictures, these gruesome ghouls nonetheless cried out with a savage humanity

547
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:16,760
took the breath from all who witnessed their devilish delights. Or in the silence,

548
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:31,080
no one can hear you scream. Hello, everybody. I am Peter Laurie. You may know me from such movies as

549
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:38,840
Beat the Devil and and Stranger on the Third Floor. These days, I am a professional podcaster

550
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:47,080
here in the afterlife. And I humbly thank Matthew and Vincent for disturbing my eternal rest,

551
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:53,080
wrenching my bones from my tomb and propping my withered corpse within the four walls of this

552
01:00:53,080 --> 01:01:01,080
booth from which there is no escape. Unless, of course, I fulfill my audio obligations and review

553
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:08,280
monster movies from the silent era. These past few weeks, we have explored the horror films of

554
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:16,120
the German Expressionist movement, movies like The Golem, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari and Metropolis.

555
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:26,920
I present one more entry. It is called Faust from 1926 and directed by F.W. Murnau. Murnau,

556
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:34,280
of course, better known, perhaps, for his masterpiece Nosferatu and the Academy Award-winning

557
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:41,800
best picture, Sunrise, A Song of Two Humans. But it is this retelling of the medieval legend of

558
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:50,120
Faust that will haunt your dreams this spooky season. For the uninitiated, Faust is about the

559
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:57,800
demon Mephisto who makes a bet with an archangel that a good man's soul can be corrupted. Mephisto

560
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:03,800
sets his sights on the thoughtful old alchemist Faust who is desperately trying to save his village

561
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:10,840
from the plague. He is able to help the villagers thanks to Mephisto, but further dealings with the

562
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:18,120
devil lead Faust on a decadent downward spiral. Can he redeem his soul before it is too late?

563
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:26,360
The film digs into the steams of fate, free will, human vanity and self-sacrifice.

564
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:35,640
Now Faust was the most expansive German film at the time and despite being a box office

565
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:42,760
disappointment, it is regarded among Bernal's best. It was also his last film in Germany before his

566
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:49,800
move to the United States where he made Sunrise. And an interesting bit of trivia is that the

567
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:56,280
knighted ball mountain sequence in Disney's animated Phantasia was directly inspired by

568
01:02:56,280 --> 01:03:03,960
the monstrous demon imagery in Faust. Have I convinced you yet to check out this movie

569
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:12,920
that is criminally underrated? Now do it before I harden me.

570
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:20,360
Ladies and gentlemen, I got a little ahead of myself. As you know, I am trying to turn over a

571
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:28,520
new leaf so that Matthew and Vincent might not renege on their commitment to releasing me from

572
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:36,200
my podcast bondage at the conclusion of this silent but deadly series. And in that vein,

573
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:43,560
next time we will move back to the United States and discuss the 1920 adaptation of Dr. Tickle

574
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:49,080
and Mr. Hyde starring the one and only John Barrymore. And what do you know, it will also

575
01:03:49,080 --> 01:04:07,160
be November and I will give thanks for nearing the end of my podcast purgatorio.

576
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:12,520
Across the centuries comes this exciting story of a modern girl cursed by an ancient legend,

577
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:18,920
a legend of a cat. Women whose kiss means death, whose love turns them into vicious,

578
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:26,280
gnarly beasts of prey. Twice I've been followed by something that was not human,

579
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:30,520
something that attempted to take my life. I believe that was the cat form of Irina.

580
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:34,760
Why should she wish to harm you? Because I'm in love with her husband.

581
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:50,760
It's shut now. Just a minute ago it was open. It's locked. Leave us, Irina.

582
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:07,480
This is the voice of the uninvited.

583
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:19,080
It's coming from downstairs. It comes from everywhere and nowhere. A house of terror on

584
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:26,440
the haunted cliffs of Cornwall where the uninvited walk unseen by men. Yet a cat arches its back in

585
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:34,760
fright. Flowers are withered by the touch of an unseen malignant hand. Candles flicker and die as

586
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:41,000
a ghostly chill fills the air and the living are clutched by the icy horror of the restless death.

587
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:50,680
Stop him. Don't go near that door. The uninvited Dorothy McArdle's gripping novel of the

588
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:57,000
supernatural comes to the screen starring Raymond Land, Ruth Hosse, Donald Crisp with Cornelia

589
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:02,280
Otis Skinner and introducing the exciting beauty of Gail Russell whose first love is shadowed by

590
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:08,200
the specters of the past. Stella, what is it? Are you ill, Stella? Quiet. Leave her alone.

591
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:14,840
Oh my God. Oh my God. Stop it, Scott. She's in a trance. I saw this happen once before at a

592
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:21,720
seance. I thought it was a fake. But this isn't. I know. It's dangerous. Please get out of this

593
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:29,400
house now. Now lie there quietly. I'm not afraid of anything here. Then be afraid. Be afraid for

594
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:35,800
heaven's sake. When you were a little child, the evils of this house reached out for you. Stella,

595
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:49,480
go. Go. All right. Well, back to the Wolfman. Let's talk about the themes. What stuck out to me was

596
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:55,160
all the psychological distress and talk of the film, which is very much in line with a lot of

597
01:06:55,160 --> 01:07:01,080
horror movies in the late 30s, 40s. Dracula's daughter featured these themes, cat people.

598
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:08,040
But there's the idea of the id, which is the Freudian concept of the id representing instinct

599
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:15,480
and unconscious urges. Claude Rains, he literally says, werewolves are a symbol for the dual

600
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:22,520
personality. And then there's a big conversation between him and Larry about one's nature and the

601
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:28,280
good and the bad in us all and how those are constantly at war with each other.

602
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:33,000
Yeah. And I think those are like the themes that reappear in so many of these werewolf movies

603
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:37,640
afterwards, like Wolf with Jack Nicholson, which we've talked about on the podcast,

604
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:44,280
Howling, which is my personal favorite werewolf movie. But I mean, it all kind of goes back to

605
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:49,720
the Wolfman in 1941. And they are really fascinating themes, especially in the context of World War

606
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:55,240
Two and just what was going on globally at the time. And there are a lot of sort of variations

607
01:07:55,240 --> 01:08:02,200
on it in this movie. There's the id part of it. There's the good and evil within all of us kind

608
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:09,240
of fighting to which one is going to win out in the end and each individual. And then there's

609
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:14,040
also just the theme of animalism and the beast inside of all of us. This seemed like a good time

610
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:20,040
to say that at first I did not like the Larry character. He's kind of like a rich, spoiled,

611
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:26,200
very creepily flirtatious guy who just takes whatever he wants. But I mean, the more I think

612
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:32,760
about it, it must be intentional. That animalistic part is there in him from the very start,

613
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:39,560
even before he's bitten by the wolf. So it's a compelling theme. And I think most viewers can

614
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:45,720
identify with that a little bit, just kind of like the good and the dark parts of all of us or

615
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:50,120
whatever. It remains a very compelling theme 80 years later.

616
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:56,440
Yeah, definitely. Especially with the, it's kind of like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde type of situation.

617
01:08:56,440 --> 01:09:02,200
I think you see a lot of those movies kind of not be adapted later on in horror because

618
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:08,280
I think the Wolfman almost like filled in for that kind of thematically. It fills in for that

619
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:13,960
story with the whole id situation and all that. Because you definitely see that in the movie.

620
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:21,240
Especially in the 31 Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Oh yeah.

621
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:25,720
So I think the Wolfman kind of just like pushed him to the side a little bit. So I would have

622
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:30,920
loved to see more Dr. Jekyll during this period. But that's just the way it is. As far as

623
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:37,800
C. Odd Max, kind of like what he brought to the script as far as the thematics of World War II.

624
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:42,120
It's interesting that if you think about the release date, I think this was released like

625
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:51,320
two days after the attack on Pearl Harbor. So it's like, it's very tied to that period and time.

626
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:57,960
But I think he also described that he saw men become monsters as far as like what happened with

627
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:04,440
the Nazi soldiers and the Germans going, what was going on in Germany at the time. So he brought

628
01:10:04,440 --> 01:10:12,840
that to it. And I think that speaks so well to that dual nature. Yeah, absolutely. And at first,

629
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:17,320
it doesn't seem like war is really like a conspicuous part of this movie. But there's

630
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:21,800
a brief line of dialogue towards the beginning that Larry's brother died in war. And that's kind

631
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:27,800
of like a formative conflict between Larry and his dad. It's a very, very brief line of dialogue,

632
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:32,040
but I think it's pretty significant. They never really touch upon that again, even though there's

633
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:37,560
kind of a strained relationship between Larry and his dad. And then we also just get the sense that

634
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:43,400
or there's the fact that Larry returns from the United States to this estate in Wales,

635
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:47,800
which is where the movie takes place. So there is a little bit of that kind of like Europe versus

636
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:54,200
America. Maybe not tension, but just kind of like there was the question of like if and when America

637
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:59,160
was going to enter World War II. And obviously it happened shortly after this and after Pearl Harbor,

638
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:04,360
like you said, Brian. So I do think those themes come through in really kind of subtle ways that

639
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:09,880
aren't totally explicit. Maybe the first time you watch this movie. And it reminded me of I

640
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:13,560
Walked with a Zombie a little bit, another movie written by Kurt Siyadmak, where there are all

641
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:18,920
these really complicated themes that are somehow kind of smuggled into this movie that's barely

642
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:24,440
more than an hour long. It's super impressive in both movies. And honestly, things I never thought

643
01:11:24,440 --> 01:11:30,680
about until I was doing research for this episode, you know, because I see the more

644
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:41,880
explicit themes of Larry is an American ostensibly and he's now the outsider in this small Welsh town

645
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:48,280
and the conflict that engages with his family legacy because now he as the younger brother was

646
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:55,800
never expected to take over the estate, but now he must. And he has that conflict with his dad

647
01:11:56,520 --> 01:12:03,080
and his standing in the village is really interesting. There's really, there's some

648
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:11,160
nuggets about him being in love with Gwen, who is just the shopkeeper's daughter.

649
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:18,920
I think Frank Patrick Knowles has a line about be careful. He's a Talbot.

650
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:26,520
And I wanted that fleshed out a little bit more. So like, what does that mean? But maybe I can

651
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:33,560
infer that, you know, Talbot's and shopkeeper's girls don't mix. Like there's a class hierarchy

652
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:41,400
there, which I do find interesting. I wish maybe it was leaned into a little bit more. Yeah, I

653
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:46,680
definitely think that there's something with that has like a class, like you said, class theme behind

654
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:53,880
that. And also it's like, because of that status, is he like acting a certain way? And maybe even

655
01:12:53,880 --> 01:13:00,920
from his, you know, how he lived in America, does he come into this European village now and think,

656
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:07,800
you know, everything's ripe for the taking, even if it's this lady who's essentially, or she is,

657
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:12,840
you know, going to be married. And he's still kind of like pushing and pushing. And he just has like

658
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:18,120
this kind of very, I don't know, like spoiled or, you know, very, you know, he's he's he just keeps

659
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:22,920
going for it. And it's like, maybe it's a little bit of entitlement. It seems like a very American

660
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:28,760
mindset, like big bravado. You know, I'm here, everybody.

661
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:34,760
I also just have to mention, like, maybe it's because I am a son, and I have a father, and,

662
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:41,240
you know, we have a history together, that the relationship between Larry and Sir John

663
01:13:42,440 --> 01:13:49,640
just like really gets me in the feels, especially at the end, you know, and spoiler alerts, when

664
01:13:49,640 --> 01:14:01,560
when Sir John ends up killing his own son, after trying to help him through this this illness.

665
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:07,400
It's heartbreaking. It's honestly, I think it's one of the most tragic things in a Universal

666
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:13,960
Monster movie. It might be the most tragic thing. I totally agree. It's an incredibly bleak ending

667
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:18,760
and says, yeah, you know, I mean, like, there's a lot that we kind of have to like read into their

668
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:22,120
relationship a little bit, but there's enough there in the performances and like little bits

669
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:27,160
of dialogue to just say a lot about that. But then it all comes together in that ending, which is

670
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:33,000
really, really incredible. Love the ending of this movie. Yeah, but it might say something about me.

671
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:38,520
I don't know. But two of my favorite werewolf movies are this and American Werewolf, which both have

672
01:14:39,480 --> 01:14:43,960
terrible bleak endings. And it's just like, I think those are some of the best. I think the best

673
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:49,880
werewolf stories are ultimately just, you know, like these big Greek tragedies. And, you know,

674
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:58,760
speaking to, you know, Claude Rains, his character and him having to kill his own son and not knowing.

675
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:03,480
And it's like, ultimately, maybe he did. He did help him at the end there. So maybe there's a

676
01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:10,680
little bit of tragedy, but maybe he finally gets to rest. Yeah, it's heartbreaking. Yeah.

677
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:17,080
Until the sequels is all I was going to say. Yeah. Until Universal needed more money. Yeah.

678
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:25,240
Brian, I love that you brought up the Greek tragedy aspect. George Wagner himself

679
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:32,360
shot this movie like a tragedy and with that inevitable conclusion. And those were his words,

680
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:39,000
a Greek tragedy. And after hearing that, I was like, oh, yeah, there's something heightened about

681
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:47,000
this. There's something very, very dramatic, very stage like about this, larger than life.

682
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:53,960
Feels almost like fated in a way. Like they're doomed to a fate that they can't escape, you know.

683
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:59,000
I think one of the original titles, one of the original titles for the movie was actually going

684
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:04,760
to be a destiny. So it's almost like they were starting with that theme from the very beginning.

685
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:09,720
This would have been back when I think Karloff was still attached to it. But like I said, I think

686
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:14,680
some of the best werewolf stories are like, this shit is probably not going to end well for anybody

687
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:23,400
here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is the final segment of our show now where we get into our individual

688
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:28,600
breakdowns. So, you know, as much or as little as you want to share, but each of us will share

689
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:34,360
what we liked about the movie, what we didn't like about the movie, what we didn't like about

690
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:39,480
the movie. And then something can't be about it. Something that was silly, that made you laugh,

691
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:44,600
whether it was intended or not. Where to begin with all the things I like about this movie?

692
01:16:45,480 --> 01:16:51,080
You know, I think all of us are kind of in the same same boat with that. I think like stylistically,

693
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:56,360
there's so much care that goes into this movie. It's extremely well shot. The sets are beautiful.

694
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:03,800
Like even aside from like the kind of spooky nighttime scenes, there's an early tracking shot

695
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:08,600
that's in Sir John's laboratory where like they're first putting together this telescope.

696
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:13,240
And it's a tracking shot that like starts at the very back of the room. And it must be like a track

697
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:17,240
a tracking shot on a crane, because then it kind of like goes up to like the second level of the

698
01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:22,200
laboratory. And it goes like all the way up to like a close up, maybe like a medium shot of the

699
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:28,120
telescope. It's stunning. Like it's something that maybe like, like in Notorious, the Hitchcock movie,

700
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:33,240
there's a similar shot. It's it's more impressive. It like goes all the way down this huge swooping

701
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:38,280
staircase. But it's really impressive here, too. That's a long winded way to say that this is just

702
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:43,640
like such a beautiful movie. And it's so well put together. thematically, there's so much to it,

703
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:49,160
I promise I won't take all the stuff so you guys can say some things as well. But it's it's

704
01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:53,560
beautiful to watch. There's a lot to think about. I'll leave it there so you guys can take over a

705
01:17:53,560 --> 01:18:01,880
little bit. Okay, I'll make mine quick. Things I've said already, but I think for me, the strongest

706
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:08,840
part of this movie are the performers. I think as I'll get into I think there's there's some to be

707
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:16,040
desired with the script. But the performers really step up. And I think Claude Rains is the glue of

708
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:23,720
this film. I think he makes Lon Chaney Jr. a better actor in their scenes. I just I'm a huge Claude

709
01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:33,160
Rains fan. But anchors and Chaney. Yeah, it's just they make it work for me. Yeah, so this is going

710
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:37,960
to be pretty easy for me because I'm just like this is my favorite movie of all time. So it's

711
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:45,960
like actors, cinematography, direction, you know, like writing, maybe it's not like it's pretty like

712
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:54,520
on one note, but the performance is for sure. Even Lugosi is not even on screen for that long,

713
01:18:54,520 --> 01:19:00,680
and he turns in this fantastic performance. The themes of that Seodmic brings to the script is

714
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:10,040
what I think makes the one note nature of the story better. And also the sets I think are the

715
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:17,720
best in any Universal Monster classic movie, even Frankenstein, which has those gorgeous lab sets.

716
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:24,280
But, you know, here it was just like a fairy tale with those foggy trees and like the forest and

717
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:31,800
everything. So yeah, great performances, great sets, great direction. I think this is this is

718
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:38,200
one of the best ones. That's awesome. All right. What do we I'm gonna challenge you Brian, to come

719
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:44,200
up with something that doesn't quite work for you, but me and Matt can start. Well, I'll mention

720
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:49,960
Lon Chaney Jr.'s performance again. I do think the more I think about it, it like, you know,

721
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:54,920
just the fact that he's kind of like a big oaf, like for the first maybe like 20, 30 minutes of

722
01:19:54,920 --> 01:20:00,440
the movie, maybe more like 20. You know, at first I thought he was such an unlikable and uninteresting

723
01:20:00,440 --> 01:20:06,040
screen presence, that it was a flaw of the movie. Even that I'll add an asterisk to it, because then

724
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:12,760
I think it makes his transition to a beast and it makes kind of like the darker forces in him a

725
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:17,160
little bit more believable when they do come out later in the movie. So I'll temper that a little

726
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:22,520
bit. But, you know, initially, at least Chaney's performance is not my favorite in this movie.

727
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:28,120
You know, I guess I wish it was a little bit longer. I think like, one of the things I love

728
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:32,840
about it is that it's 70 minutes. But also, I mean, I feel like the movie doesn't really have time to

729
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:39,720
work through all these ideas about war, father-son relationships, the id, you know, animalism, all

730
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:46,200
this stuff. I think like the movie kind of feels a little bit rushed at times. And we kind of have

731
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:52,120
to like glean these themes, which isn't a bad thing. But it's like, the movie can maybe deepen

732
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:58,120
them a little bit, complicate them a little bit more. Yeah. And like the last thing I'll say is

733
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:03,240
that the Gwen character could be a little bit more complex or deep as well. But again, if you have

734
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:07,560
70 minutes, there's probably not really a ton of time to go into a lot of backstory and things like that.

735
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:14,520
Well, I'm glad you brought up the Gwen character, because I think that that's where the movie could

736
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:21,000
be a little a little more fleshed out with her character. And that's just me, right? Maybe her

737
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:28,360
character doesn't matter. But there are so many things in this script, like why is she willing to

738
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:36,360
go out with Larry? And even when Frank, played by Patrick Knowles, even when they do engage with each

739
01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:43,240
other, at the end of the carnival scene, Gwen says, we had a quarrel and he's gone. And I'm like,

740
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:50,040
you don't seem to be in a happy relationship. And I want to know more about that. Related,

741
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:56,840
there's a really powerful scene when a group of older women, mothers, and the mother of Jenny,

742
01:21:56,840 --> 01:22:05,240
the Gwen's friend who gets killed by the werewolf, Jenny's mom comes into the shop demanding answers,

743
01:22:05,240 --> 01:22:14,920
demanding to see Larry. And she's so antagonistic to Gwen, essentially calling her a hussy for going

744
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:21,560
out with a man who's not her husband. Then I was like, what's this relationship? What's the history

745
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:28,680
here? Like, maybe there's a flashback to Gwen and Jenny being little girls and getting up to no good.

746
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:35,000
I don't know. But but that's something where I was like, there's more to this world that I would love

747
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:42,040
to see. Same with the bail, the bail a character. What was what? What happened there? Why is he a

748
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:47,320
four legged wolf and not a wolf man? I don't know.

749
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:55,800
Which might ask the question of if he's even a werewolf at all. Like I in research for this

750
01:22:55,800 --> 01:23:00,600
episode, I read a really good review by Brian Egert, I think his name was, who makes the argument

751
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:04,600
that this is still a movie when we never really know what's real and what's not. And like what's

752
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:11,160
in Larry's head and what's even in Larry's dad had had at the end of the movie, when, you know,

753
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:16,040
seemingly what happens is so obvious to us, the audience. But like, this review makes the point

754
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:21,480
that like, maybe these inconsistencies and like, and werewolves and what they look like and their

755
01:23:21,480 --> 01:23:26,040
transitions and stuff. Maybe it's intentional on the part of the movie to kind of like throw that

756
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:30,520
into question a little bit, you know, I don't know if I totally agree with that, but it is a compelling

757
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:37,320
idea for sure. Yeah. Yeah, that would be cool if like, that movie ends and a new one begins where

758
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:43,160
it's like, now his dad is questioning, did he kill a wolf or a man and it becomes this new cycle of,

759
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:48,920
you know, of like a tragedy and stuff like that, where he has to answer all these questions about

760
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:56,600
what happened on that night. Yeah, right, right. Like this story is not over. He's now probably

761
01:23:56,600 --> 01:24:04,600
gonna spiral into tragedy like his son. Oh, that's also heartbreaking. Yeah. I guess I got to say

762
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:13,640
something bad about this, right? If you can. I'll try. I think it is the fact that this movie is

763
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:19,080
simple. And like you guys said, it's very kind of breakneck speed that has to move through all

764
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:24,280
these things. Because it is saying a lot in some ways, but it's like not, it doesn't have the time

765
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:32,680
to kind of let all that breathe. Even like you guys said with Frank, it's like he could have been

766
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:38,520
maybe a little bit better of like a antagonistic figure for Larry, other than just like the nature

767
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:44,040
of the curse being this like unseen antagonistic figure. Frank could have kind of filled in maybe

768
01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:48,360
a bit there because it's like, you know what he has, he has a reason to be a little,

769
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:54,040
a little angry about the situation, obviously. So I wish they would have maybe flushed that out

770
01:24:54,040 --> 01:25:00,760
a little bit more. And I think Matt, you kind of convinced me with a little bit with the

771
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:08,520
Cheney's performance is it's a bit kind of like goofy at the beginning, you know, it's not

772
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:15,400
exactly like this great Oscar performance. But I think for me, where that comes in is the transition

773
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:21,640
of like, when he now is dealing with the situation, I think he's a better actor when he's kind of

774
01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:28,840
conveying the tragedy of Larry Talbot and that side of it. I think that's where he really kind

775
01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:34,280
of, you know, like I said, maybe pulls from his own life. But at the beginning, it does come off

776
01:25:34,280 --> 01:25:39,240
a little bit too kind of simple. And I think that's that's the big thing with this movie.

777
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:45,560
Like I said at the beginning, it's just simplicity might have kind of hindered some things for it.

778
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:52,680
Totally. Yeah. Okay. Some campy stuff. Actually, this is where like

779
01:25:52,680 --> 01:26:00,440
Cheney's performance for me, like I don't see it so much as bad, just kind of over the top and

780
01:26:00,440 --> 01:26:08,600
in that way that like he just won't take no for an answer. And it's really funny. Gwen is like,

781
01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:18,200
no, no, no, I will not go to the carnival with you. And he just won't stop asking her.

782
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:24,040
And he thinks he's so charming, too. Right. He is so confident and he's really not.

783
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:29,480
It made me think of the saying, carry yourself with the confidence of a mediocre white man,

784
01:26:29,480 --> 01:26:31,720
you know, perfectly applies to Larry Talbot.

785
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:42,280
I also have to give love to Jenny or poor Jenny. She shows up. She just wants a good time out with

786
01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:49,240
her friend Gwen. Oh, this stud shows up. OK, I'll go have some fun with him. I'll get my palm red.

787
01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:51,320
And now I'm being eaten by a wolf.

788
01:26:53,560 --> 01:26:57,480
We know almost nothing about Jenny. Yeah. Another tragic character.

789
01:27:00,920 --> 01:27:06,120
Well, I can go real quick. There aren't too many campy things I can think of in this movie,

790
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:11,000
or at least like the campy parts are like also like legitimately well done for the most part,

791
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:16,680
I think. I do like the fact that the movie opens with a dictionary definition of like

792
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:22,360
like can't be like can't be. I can never pronounce that. Sorry. But like, you know,

793
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:27,400
it's the equivalent of starting a speech with Webster's defines this as so I found that amusing.

794
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:33,240
There's I don't know if this is in the campy category, but there's another actually very

795
01:27:33,240 --> 01:27:39,560
cool part where like Larry is kind of starting his descent into madness. And there's a big sign

796
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:44,840
and a wall behind him that says sane man, like same in products or whatever is the name of the

797
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:49,560
company. And I just love that moment. Again, I don't know if that's campy, but it's just like

798
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:52,920
really making it clear what the theme of the movie is. That's great.

799
01:27:55,080 --> 01:28:00,760
And I hadn't noticed that until this rewatch. It's I mean, another example of how just like

800
01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:06,200
thoughtful the set design is, you know. Yeah, I know. I want the new Wolfman movie to start

801
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:12,360
with a dictionary dictionary definition like right at the beginning now and see if I hope so.

802
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:20,600
Nine out of 10 right there. But yeah, Mr. I think it was Mr. Twittle or whatever. He's like the guy

803
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:24,120
that goes with them on the hunt. He's kind of like he kind of brings like a campy nature to it as

804
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:29,720
far as I think that was a bit more like intentional to be a little bit funnier. Yeah, like you said,

805
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:34,920
the Chinese performance at the beginning, although it was more like probably like a technical thing

806
01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:40,760
from the time I do get a laugh if you like pause it at the right moment during the lap dissolves.

807
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:45,480
It's like you got Larry with this giant hair throw that he's got going on.

808
01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:53,320
So some of those effects are pretty funny. But the thing that it was like a mishap for sure that

809
01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:57,400
they just weren't paying attention to. I love when he first transforms and we see his feet.

810
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:03,400
He definitely takes his shirt off. And when he transforms fully into the werewolf and he

811
01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:08,200
goes out at night, it's like he's back with the shirt on. So the wolf man took the time

812
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:16,840
to put that shirt back on, tuck it in and go out for a good night. He's a well-dressed monster.

813
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:25,560
He's still got a look in. Yeah. Yeah, I love that about the wolf man. He always tucks his shirt in.

814
01:29:28,040 --> 01:29:31,320
The like civilized gentleman never totally leaves him, you know.

815
01:29:31,320 --> 01:29:36,280
Yeah. But I agree that I love that moment. I noticed that and I was like,

816
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:41,320
ah, that's an amusing error there. Like continuity gaffe or whatever. I love that.

817
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:46,040
Yeah. Chaney said you're not putting all that yak hair all over.

818
01:29:46,040 --> 01:29:50,840
Yeah. Not reshooting that.

819
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:54,440
All right. Let's give it our final ratings here. Matt, take it away again.

820
01:29:55,080 --> 01:30:00,680
Yeah. This is one of my favorite parts of every episode. So we have our rating system here on

821
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:07,480
Camp Kaju. We have our top ranking. It's a timeless classic. It definitely stands the test of time.

822
01:30:07,480 --> 01:30:11,960
Our second ranking is there may be some antiquated moments, but overall it's great. It stands the

823
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:17,480
test of time. Number three, it may be historically significant or just fun, but it does not stand the

824
01:30:17,480 --> 01:30:22,680
test of time. And our lowest ranking, it is not worth revisiting and definitely does not stand the

825
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:31,400
test of time. Should I go first or do you guys? Yeah. Well, yeah, I'll just go real quick and

826
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:36,760
then I'll hand it over to you guys. I have a hunch we might all grade this the same way.

827
01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:42,360
It's a timeless classic. It definitely stands the test of time. Like I said about Bride of

828
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:47,160
Frankenstein is my favorite Universal monster movie, but this is number two for me. There's

829
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:54,040
just so much to it. It's such a fun watch. And some of the stuff about it's maybe too short.

830
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:59,800
I wish some stuff was fleshed out a little bit more. At the same time, I would rather have a movie

831
01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:06,040
that's so fascinating than I want more of it instead of the opposite. So for me, definitely

832
01:31:06,040 --> 01:31:13,160
the highest ranking. Yeah. I'll go next. And Brian, you can have the last word. I will also give it

833
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:21,720
classic status. It stands the test of time. Again, acknowledging, sure, some continuity errors, blah,

834
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:32,840
blah, blah. But the fact that I still get close to tears by that ending, like that just speaks to

835
01:31:32,840 --> 01:31:43,480
the artistry and the talent happening with this movie. I'm blown away by it. So it may not be on

836
01:31:43,480 --> 01:31:52,600
the surface like, wow, a real horrifying movie, but sit with it. And there's a lot for it to offer.

837
01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:59,240
All right. No surprise here. It's timeless classic for me. It definitely stands the test of time.

838
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:05,080
I think mostly because it's like, although I think Brighter Frankenstein, like I said,

839
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:12,600
is this more technically better film, the Wolfman's maybe close enough, but it's with that lower

840
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:17,560
runtime. If someone were to watch it now, you can sit them down for like, you're going to just tell

841
01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:25,000
them, it's barely an hour. You could watch it. And I think you get a lot for what it is for the

842
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:30,360
runtime. So I think even for people today, it's like, it's one of those movies I think you can

843
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:38,280
watch and still get a lot out of it. The performances are is what I'll always go back to. I love

844
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:47,320
Cheney in it. He's my favorite kind of universal monster actor. So being this is his most focused

845
01:32:47,320 --> 01:32:55,320
role. And it's always going to be kind of like my favorite one. Also, Jack Pierce's makeup, it's

846
01:32:55,320 --> 01:33:02,520
kind of carries that last like 30 minutes. I think if you didn't have that, it would be like a

847
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:08,680
different movie. So I think kind of it gives you the monster. And I, like I said, in an hour,

848
01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:11,560
you get one of the greatest monster movies ever told.

849
01:33:11,560 --> 01:33:21,240
Ever told. Yeah. Well said, Brian. And Brian, we thank you truly for joining us on Camp Kaiju

850
01:33:21,240 --> 01:33:28,520
and talking about this. It's been so enlightening and all the facts you brought and the and just

851
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:33,880
the joy. You love these movies and we do too. So thank you for helping us talk about it.

852
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:39,880
Thank you. This has been awesome. Thanks, Brian. If you, you know, it's been a pleasure if you ever

853
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:43,240
like want to join again. I mean, I shouldn't speak for Vincent there, but we'd love to have

854
01:33:43,240 --> 01:33:48,440
you back at some point. Hey, you guys know where to find me if you want to reach out and, you know,

855
01:33:48,440 --> 01:33:53,800
you need any kind of information or would like me on again, I'll be happy to do it. What movie would

856
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:59,480
you like to discuss on a podcast? Obviously, Universal Monsters is always going to be like my

857
01:33:59,480 --> 01:34:04,680
immediate go to. I have more of that kind of locked away in here, like all that information. But

858
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:12,520
I am a huge horror fan in general slashers. Like I said, American Werewolf is also one of my favorite

859
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:18,280
movies, but that's kind of like, you know, classic monster adjacent kind of thing. So yeah, but anything

860
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:24,680
honestly, Caligari is one of my favorite silent movies. I love silent horror too. Yeah. Peter

861
01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:30,040
Laurie, speaking of that, M is a great movie too, that I think a lot of people don't talk about.

862
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:35,960
Agreed on M, one of my favorite movies ever. Incredible. Yeah, in the future, we'll definitely

863
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:42,360
keep you in mind if we're talking about any of those movies. Yeah, cool. Well, before you go,

864
01:34:42,360 --> 01:34:48,280
just tell our listeners who you are, where they can find you and follow you on Instagram.

865
01:34:48,280 --> 01:34:55,560
Yeah. So one last time, this is Brian Rodriguez from Uni Monsters. You can find me primarily on

866
01:34:55,560 --> 01:35:03,560
Instagram at at at Uni Monsters. Just share, you know, monster facts, cool monster reels,

867
01:35:04,440 --> 01:35:08,040
and do a lot of cool giveaways and stuff like that. So you can find me there on Instagram or

868
01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:13,640
at Uni Monsters on YouTube as well for more more horror history. Fantastic. We will put links to

869
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:20,520
those to those sites in our show notes. And Brian, take it easy, man. Thank you. Thanks, guys.

870
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:25,080
Thanks for hanging out, friends. Please rate and review wherever you listen. You can also share

871
01:35:25,080 --> 01:35:32,280
this podcast with a friend and give us positive reviews, because it goes a long way. And the more

872
01:35:32,280 --> 01:35:38,680
people we can get talking about classic monster movies, the better. So you can also send us

873
01:35:38,680 --> 01:35:44,200
listener comments at CampKaiju at gmail.com, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube links in the show

874
01:35:44,200 --> 01:35:50,840
notes. If you'd like to be a featured voice on the show, leave a voicemail at 612-470-2612.

875
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:58,040
And please check out our website, CampKaijuPodcast.com for more. Camp Kaiju is recorded in Minneapolis,

876
01:35:58,040 --> 01:36:04,040
St. Paul with me in his mailbox music by Ben Cook-Felts. Thanks, friends. And until next time,

877
01:36:04,440 --> 01:36:09,800
stay campy. Camp Kaiju is sponsored by Zach Linder and the Zach Pack powered by Cold War Banker

878
01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:13,880
Realty, your source for real estate home rehab, fixing and flipping for investor clients and

879
01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:18,440
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880
01:36:18,440 --> 01:36:24,760
Pack on social media and contact the Zach Pack for investment opportunities. Links in the show notes.

881
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:54,520
I'm sorry, we haven't any like that just now. Oh, yes, you have. Don't you remember?

882
01:36:55,080 --> 01:37:01,320
On your dressing table up in your room. In my room? Yes. Would you mind getting them for me?

883
01:37:03,400 --> 01:37:09,480
Were they not for sale? Well, I can't say that I blame you. They look so well on you.

884
01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:16,680
Well, I know you think I'm crazy, but in a half an hour, the moon will rise and

885
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:22,840
I'll turn into a wolf. You and 20 million other guys. Listen, I might tear your limb from limb.

886
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:50,840
And is that serious? He'll murder you. That's serious.