WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.819 Hi, I'm psychologist and author Leona Deakin, 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:05.799 and this is Leadership Journeys, where I delve 00:00:05.799 --> 00:00:08.460 into the minds of inspirational women to find 00:00:08.460 --> 00:00:16.399 out what makes them tick. Last week, we heard 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:20.079 from Rebecca Oliver Mooney, or ROM. She's the 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:22.239 head of commercial at the co -op and the founder 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:25.079 of Raising the Glass. And she talked about how 00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:28.059 understanding yourself and others really is the 00:00:28.059 --> 00:00:32.600 key to being a great boss. This week on Leadership 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:35.979 Journeys... I was working for one business. It 00:00:35.979 --> 00:00:40.020 was a very toxic culture. I hit a real low, one 00:00:40.020 --> 00:00:41.640 of the worst points when an ambulance had to 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:43.179 be called because I couldn't breathe at work. 00:00:43.770 --> 00:00:47.509 Later I realised it was a panic attack and so 00:00:47.509 --> 00:00:51.390 I thought, right, this has to change. So I went 00:00:51.390 --> 00:00:53.909 and did a free weekend course, learnt what coaching 00:00:53.909 --> 00:00:56.590 was, fell in love with it, thought this is incredible, 00:00:56.850 --> 00:01:00.570 it's so powerful. I went and trained with a coaching 00:01:00.570 --> 00:01:03.490 school in London. I loved every second of it. 00:01:03.689 --> 00:01:07.609 Can a bad experience be the gateway to a positive 00:01:07.609 --> 00:01:20.439 change in your life? Hi, folks. Today, I am talking 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:23.819 to Bianca Spruitt. She is the founder of Sprout 00:01:23.819 --> 00:01:26.819 Coaching, a company that helps tech organizations 00:01:26.819 --> 00:01:29.900 to improve the working experience of everyone 00:01:29.900 --> 00:01:33.400 while at work, while also improving their personal 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:36.719 potential. Her experience as a female leader 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:40.400 in tech herself. caused Bianca to retrain as 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:43.359 a coach and then to launch her own successful 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:47.140 coaching business. So I'm really interested to 00:01:47.140 --> 00:01:51.319 find out what inspired that change and why improving 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:54.159 the quality of the workplace is so important 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:58.260 to her. Welcome, Bianca. Hi, Leona. It's lovely 00:01:58.260 --> 00:02:00.519 to be here with you. It's really nice to have 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:02.400 you along and thank you for welcoming us into 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:04.939 your wonderful home. We are sat under this wonderful 00:02:04.939 --> 00:02:07.879 tree that I believe your husband put in place 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:10.139 that you've decorated with spring flowers. I 00:02:10.139 --> 00:02:13.599 just feel like I'm in some lovely like zen mindfulness 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:17.319 environment. It is a lovely sensory experience. 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:19.659 Yes, for sure. I kind of want one for my own 00:02:19.659 --> 00:02:23.039 house now. So thank you so much. Right. So just 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:25.759 tell me a little bit about Sprout Coat. So what 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:27.580 are the kind of level of people that you're working 00:02:27.580 --> 00:02:29.759 with and what are you doing with them in your 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:32.979 current business? Yeah, so it's... people who 00:02:32.979 --> 00:02:36.020 are working in senior leadership. And it's also 00:02:36.020 --> 00:02:39.439 people who are thinking about stepping into managerial 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:42.620 roles and also the teams that they manage as 00:02:42.620 --> 00:02:44.860 well. So there's all kinds of different levels 00:02:44.860 --> 00:02:47.960 there, really. Yeah. And it's all about improving 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:52.340 that environment. So people feel presumably higher 00:02:52.340 --> 00:02:54.680 levels of well -being, higher levels of confidence, 00:02:54.819 --> 00:02:58.360 just feeling more capable and able to do the 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:00.330 things that they're there to do. Is that? Yeah, 00:03:00.330 --> 00:03:03.530 and feeling safe to just be themselves, because 00:03:03.530 --> 00:03:06.710 if they feel safe to be themselves, then they're 00:03:06.710 --> 00:03:11.530 going to feel safe to speak up about some new 00:03:11.530 --> 00:03:15.650 idea that they have or what they think we could 00:03:15.650 --> 00:03:18.330 do to solve a big problem. And if they don't 00:03:18.330 --> 00:03:20.750 feel safe, then they're much more likely to just 00:03:20.750 --> 00:03:23.909 sit there quietly because it feels like the better 00:03:23.909 --> 00:03:26.330 thing to do. So businesses are going to benefit 00:03:26.330 --> 00:03:30.330 as well as the individuals. Oh, lovely. Yeah. 00:03:30.409 --> 00:03:33.009 So a lot to do with that psychological contract 00:03:33.009 --> 00:03:35.289 and all that goes with that, that psychological 00:03:35.289 --> 00:03:38.409 safety and how people feel and whether they can 00:03:38.409 --> 00:03:41.729 be themselves. Yeah, so much so. So many businesses 00:03:41.729 --> 00:03:45.310 are missing out on some really fantastic ideas 00:03:45.310 --> 00:03:47.590 from their people because they just don't want 00:03:47.590 --> 00:03:50.490 to share them because they're worried about their 00:03:50.490 --> 00:03:52.349 idea being slammed down or being made to look 00:03:52.349 --> 00:03:54.710 stupid or just think they're not going to be 00:03:54.710 --> 00:03:58.960 listened to anyway. So what's the point? It just 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:03.159 doesn't have to be that way. We spend so much 00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:06.340 time at work, so let's make that experience as 00:04:06.340 --> 00:04:08.500 wonderful as it can be and make people feel like 00:04:08.500 --> 00:04:10.719 they want to be at work because they're really 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:14.550 appreciated when they're there. And then it makes 00:04:14.550 --> 00:04:16.610 managers and leaders lives a lot easier as well, 00:04:16.629 --> 00:04:18.170 because they're not having to do everything, 00:04:18.230 --> 00:04:20.550 come up with all the ideas because their teams 00:04:20.550 --> 00:04:22.350 are doing such wonderful work and coming up with 00:04:22.350 --> 00:04:25.290 so much themselves. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And 00:04:25.290 --> 00:04:27.350 this is why I was so keen to speak to you on 00:04:27.350 --> 00:04:29.149 the podcast, because this is a mission very close 00:04:29.149 --> 00:04:31.889 to my heart. I mean, I think I always aspired 00:04:31.889 --> 00:04:34.329 as a young psychologist to changing the organisation 00:04:34.329 --> 00:04:36.730 and making them better. And then I went through 00:04:36.730 --> 00:04:38.889 my own period of feeling quite cynical about. 00:04:39.470 --> 00:04:41.449 the possibility of that. And then I've come out 00:04:41.449 --> 00:04:43.589 the other side and realised that actually on 00:04:43.589 --> 00:04:47.490 an individual level, so through that individual 00:04:47.490 --> 00:04:50.269 coaching and team coaching like you're doing, 00:04:50.329 --> 00:04:53.689 you can make a huge difference, not just to that 00:04:53.689 --> 00:04:57.449 immediate leader and their team, but to the other 00:04:57.449 --> 00:04:59.610 people around them in that environment. So I 00:04:59.610 --> 00:05:01.230 just think it's fab what you're doing. It's great. 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:04.339 There's so much out there at the moment celebrating 00:05:04.339 --> 00:05:07.040 women in tech and female leaders in tech and 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:09.740 all of that. So what was that like as an environment? 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:12.939 Was it male orientated when you went in or is 00:05:12.939 --> 00:05:15.980 it a little bit more balanced than that? It was. 00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:20.540 Yeah, it was just men when I first started. Yeah. 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:24.060 And also working in the car industry, that was 00:05:24.060 --> 00:05:28.160 mostly men as well. So it was particularly working 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:29.939 in the car industry and going around and setting 00:05:29.939 --> 00:05:32.500 up the network cables and just doing all of the 00:05:32.500 --> 00:05:35.980 very physical things around the building as well 00:05:35.980 --> 00:05:38.920 as sitting at my desk. And yeah, it would be 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:41.000 normal to have posters of like topless women 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.279 on the walls and things like that. So it was 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:48.240 very different to how it is now. I don't think 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:53.269 I ever felt held back. by being a woman but I'd 00:05:53.269 --> 00:05:56.370 say looking back I can see that yeah some of 00:05:56.370 --> 00:05:58.329 these situations some of these environments were 00:05:58.329 --> 00:06:00.490 not great for making me feel confident and so 00:06:00.490 --> 00:06:05.009 they probably did contribute to me maybe not 00:06:05.009 --> 00:06:07.310 being as confident not speaking up in certain 00:06:07.310 --> 00:06:09.470 situations but at the time I didn't really feel 00:06:09.470 --> 00:06:12.750 that if that makes sense yeah it makes sense 00:06:12.750 --> 00:06:15.439 in this sense of walking past those pictures 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:17.660 of topless women and not giving it a second thought 00:06:17.660 --> 00:06:20.279 which I can relate to that back in my younger 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:23.120 years because you it was just part and parcel 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:25.100 of how the world was then and now in hindsight 00:06:25.100 --> 00:06:27.540 we feel that's quite jarring don't we but yeah 00:06:27.540 --> 00:06:30.040 when you were saying that it made you feel where 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.399 in hindsight maybe it affected your confidence 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:34.699 what were the kinds of things that were impacting 00:06:34.699 --> 00:06:37.180 on your confidence do you know when you look 00:06:37.180 --> 00:06:40.350 back I think it was just things like seeing images 00:06:40.350 --> 00:06:42.889 like that. If I had to go under a desk to sort 00:06:42.889 --> 00:06:45.129 out some wiring, having some comments about my 00:06:45.129 --> 00:06:48.149 bum, you know, those kind of things just make 00:06:48.149 --> 00:06:50.269 you think, well, I don't I need to go and do 00:06:50.269 --> 00:06:51.970 that job, but I don't want to do that job because 00:06:51.970 --> 00:06:54.470 I know that I'm going to get someone making comments 00:06:54.470 --> 00:06:58.269 about me and my body. And that didn't feel very 00:06:58.269 --> 00:07:01.300 comfortable. So then you tried to. get out of 00:07:01.300 --> 00:07:04.560 doing certain types of work, I guess, which may 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:06.680 have made me look as though I didn't want to 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:09.740 do certain parts of the job at times. And also 00:07:09.740 --> 00:07:12.639 maybe not being taken as seriously when I had 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:15.740 something to say. And then that starts making 00:07:15.740 --> 00:07:18.800 you think that maybe what you have to say isn't 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:21.639 that serious or isn't that important. So you 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:26.579 stop. stop speaking as much about your ideas 00:07:26.579 --> 00:07:29.240 which then makes you stop having as many ideas 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:32.379 because you're kind of flattening all that down. 00:07:32.819 --> 00:07:36.480 Yeah and it's like it sounds like it's making 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:41.100 you self -conscious in that way of your thinking 00:07:41.100 --> 00:07:44.459 about physically what am I doing and how is it 00:07:44.459 --> 00:07:48.709 looking but also What am I saying? How is it 00:07:48.709 --> 00:07:52.089 landing? Or I've said something and it wasn't 00:07:52.089 --> 00:07:54.589 listened to or it was overruled. And so it couldn't 00:07:54.589 --> 00:07:57.930 have been a good idea. And you're almost, it 00:07:57.930 --> 00:08:00.970 sounds to me like it's almost spending too much 00:08:00.970 --> 00:08:03.730 time thinking inwardly about yourself than actually 00:08:03.730 --> 00:08:06.689 looking externally at whatever the work is that's 00:08:06.689 --> 00:08:09.550 going on and just getting stuck in. And I imagine 00:08:09.550 --> 00:08:11.750 that's something that so many people, not just 00:08:11.750 --> 00:08:15.350 women, but people who have difference. whether 00:08:15.350 --> 00:08:19.709 it be their ethnicity or whether it be their 00:08:19.709 --> 00:08:22.589 neurodiversity or whether it be in any other 00:08:22.589 --> 00:08:26.529 form of physical appearance or capacity, that 00:08:26.529 --> 00:08:30.410 idea of being different and making you a bit 00:08:30.410 --> 00:08:32.710 more vulnerable and a bit more self -conscious 00:08:32.710 --> 00:08:37.009 going on. Yeah, definitely. And that's one of 00:08:37.009 --> 00:08:40.250 the biggest things that has changed from when 00:08:40.250 --> 00:08:44.299 I was younger to how I am now. realizing that 00:08:44.299 --> 00:08:47.620 actually those differences, the things that are 00:08:47.620 --> 00:08:50.320 different about you can hold you back, but they 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.200 can also propel you forward. They can be your 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:55.899 biggest asset because if you have a different 00:08:55.899 --> 00:08:57.779 background or you're different from the group 00:08:57.779 --> 00:09:00.600 in some way, that means you're going to have 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:03.539 a different view on what's going on in the workplace. 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:05.100 You're going to come up with different ideas 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:08.559 because of all of the different experiences you've 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:12.120 been through in life. They all affect how you 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:14.779 think. And the more differently you think, the 00:09:14.779 --> 00:09:18.059 more innovative your ideas. And yeah, we're just 00:09:18.059 --> 00:09:21.759 missing out if we don't support people in that 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:24.960 way to really be themselves and embrace those 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:27.679 differences. Yes. And the world's changed, I 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:30.539 think, in relation to that. Whether it's enacted 00:09:30.539 --> 00:09:33.480 as well as it could be in our organisations is 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:35.100 questionable, but certainly there's an awareness 00:09:35.100 --> 00:09:38.659 that diversity of thought, diversity of background, 00:09:39.059 --> 00:09:42.340 diversity of input is... valuable for creativity 00:09:42.340 --> 00:09:45.840 solving problems making good decisions you know 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:49.600 I think intellectually that's more much better 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:52.240 understood than it was maybe you know back when 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:55.039 you were working in that those first companies 00:09:55.039 --> 00:09:57.379 if I usually ask this at the end but I'm really 00:09:57.379 --> 00:09:59.419 interested if you could go back and tell that 00:09:59.419 --> 00:10:02.840 younger self in that environment to do something 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:06.419 differently would you give her any tips I think 00:10:06.419 --> 00:10:10.120 it would be about doing everything you can to 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:13.440 embrace who you are and be who you are and not 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:16.840 feel as though you need to act as though you 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:21.720 know it all or act as though you fit in and that 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:23.940 you like the things the other people like or 00:10:23.940 --> 00:10:25.899 that you want, you know, you have the same kind 00:10:25.899 --> 00:10:29.059 of thoughts because actually standing out can 00:10:29.059 --> 00:10:34.230 be good. And yet doesn't come. Easily to many 00:10:34.230 --> 00:10:37.950 people. And this is maybe when we look at personality 00:10:37.950 --> 00:10:41.009 differences, there's five big personality factors. 00:10:41.250 --> 00:10:45.370 And one of them is agreeableness. So and this 00:10:45.370 --> 00:10:47.149 is a bit like a normal distribution curve. So 00:10:47.149 --> 00:10:49.190 I always think of it as it's like we're standing 00:10:49.190 --> 00:10:51.490 on a bridge over a river. So you'll get some 00:10:51.490 --> 00:10:53.950 people who are very highly agreeable. So they 00:10:53.950 --> 00:10:55.889 will never, ever disagree with anybody ever. 00:10:56.389 --> 00:10:58.370 And then you get the people on the other riverbank 00:10:58.370 --> 00:11:00.389 who are so independent minded. They're really 00:11:00.389 --> 00:11:03.330 contrary. They don't mind. a friend to win the 00:11:03.330 --> 00:11:05.470 argument if they're right they're right yeah 00:11:05.470 --> 00:11:07.889 but then most of us are standing on the bridge 00:11:07.889 --> 00:11:10.169 aren't we and we're a bit like oh like sometimes 00:11:10.169 --> 00:11:13.029 I speak my mind and sometimes I tell people and 00:11:13.029 --> 00:11:15.190 other times it's not appropriate or I don't feel 00:11:15.190 --> 00:11:18.309 comfortable so it's that sliding scale of how 00:11:18.309 --> 00:11:23.090 independent versus group orientated am I prepared 00:11:23.090 --> 00:11:25.629 to be and I suppose that's what you're talking 00:11:25.629 --> 00:11:29.210 about being a bit more independent and a bit 00:11:29.210 --> 00:11:32.509 more comfortable in your own skin Yeah, I think 00:11:32.509 --> 00:11:35.909 so. And I think sometimes that is an outward 00:11:35.909 --> 00:11:38.909 thing. But I think also sometimes it's feeling 00:11:38.909 --> 00:11:40.990 comfortable in your own skin, but you might still 00:11:40.990 --> 00:11:43.110 make a decision of, actually, I don't want to 00:11:43.110 --> 00:11:45.129 enter into this argument. It's not important 00:11:45.129 --> 00:11:48.629 enough for me. So you still feel true to yourself 00:11:48.629 --> 00:11:50.610 because you're acknowledging yourself, how you 00:11:50.610 --> 00:11:52.590 feel and what you believe, but that it's a conscious 00:11:52.590 --> 00:11:55.809 decision to do something different. That's a 00:11:55.809 --> 00:11:59.110 better place to be than just not having that 00:11:59.110 --> 00:12:02.110 awareness and just thinking. they're probably 00:12:02.110 --> 00:12:06.090 right you know or I better not disagree and not 00:12:06.090 --> 00:12:09.690 really being aware of your own feelings and how 00:12:09.690 --> 00:12:13.409 how easy do you think it is to be that way when 00:12:13.409 --> 00:12:15.610 you're younger is that a maturity thing where 00:12:15.610 --> 00:12:20.850 you grow into your own confidence or I think 00:12:20.850 --> 00:12:23.789 for me it definitely was and for most people 00:12:23.789 --> 00:12:26.830 I think it definitely is but I think that the 00:12:26.830 --> 00:12:29.289 more we talk about this kind of thing and have 00:12:29.289 --> 00:12:31.169 these conversations and that the younger people 00:12:31.169 --> 00:12:33.309 listening, because I don't think I heard conversations 00:12:33.309 --> 00:12:36.370 like this or heard anything about, you know, 00:12:36.370 --> 00:12:38.750 being your authentic self when I was younger. 00:12:39.009 --> 00:12:40.990 That's not the kind of conversations we were 00:12:40.990 --> 00:12:43.570 having and there weren't podcasts to listen to 00:12:43.570 --> 00:12:46.850 then either. I'm hoping that that will make a 00:12:46.850 --> 00:12:49.049 difference to make it easier for people when 00:12:49.049 --> 00:12:50.690 they're younger. But for me, it was definitely 00:12:50.690 --> 00:12:53.129 a maturity thing. Yeah, feeling comfortable in 00:12:53.129 --> 00:12:54.549 your own skin. But I think you're right. And 00:12:54.549 --> 00:12:57.129 that's that whole the world is changing around 00:12:57.129 --> 00:12:59.409 us. And that helps us to have a different perspective, 00:12:59.490 --> 00:13:01.730 doesn't it? And you hope that that will plant 00:13:01.730 --> 00:13:03.769 that seed a little bit earlier, that it's OK 00:13:03.769 --> 00:13:07.269 to be different and to embrace it and celebrate 00:13:07.269 --> 00:13:10.610 it. Yeah, I do hope so. Yeah. So you got to the 00:13:10.610 --> 00:13:13.279 point where you were. working at a senior level 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:15.639 of leadership within these tech environments. 00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:18.940 And so what changed there then? Why did you decide 00:13:18.940 --> 00:13:20.879 to go off and do your own business? Was that 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:23.179 something you just always aspired to do or did 00:13:23.179 --> 00:13:25.480 something trigger that? Well, I know what it 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:30.500 was. I was working for one business and the environment 00:13:30.500 --> 00:13:35.639 was not great. It was a very toxic culture. I 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:40.860 was miserable and I thought that I could... overcome 00:13:40.860 --> 00:13:43.919 it and just keep going. And I did for too many 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:46.659 years and I just started feeling worse and worse 00:13:46.659 --> 00:13:49.840 and worse. And I was feeling as though my main 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:52.639 job was to protect my team from the environment 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:56.419 and from the culture. And that was my main focus 00:13:56.419 --> 00:13:59.059 and all of my energy went there and anything 00:13:59.059 --> 00:14:01.279 else. I didn't really have that much energy for 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:03.620 anything else really. I did a great job. I was 00:14:03.620 --> 00:14:06.889 still moving my way up in my career. But I was 00:14:06.889 --> 00:14:09.529 feeling miserable. I was feeling miserable for 00:14:09.529 --> 00:14:11.909 me and when I saw how other people were being 00:14:11.909 --> 00:14:17.470 treated as well. So I got to a point where I 00:14:17.470 --> 00:14:19.909 thought I have to do something different. I hit 00:14:19.909 --> 00:14:22.750 a real low, one of the worst points when an ambulance 00:14:22.750 --> 00:14:24.370 had to be called because I couldn't breathe at 00:14:24.370 --> 00:14:26.950 work. I was just, I left work and I just couldn't 00:14:26.950 --> 00:14:28.570 get any breath and I couldn't understand why. 00:14:29.169 --> 00:14:32.679 Later I realised it was... anxiety it was it 00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:35.980 was a panic attack and coupled with having had 00:14:35.980 --> 00:14:38.080 a chest infection for a while but really feeling 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:40.580 like I couldn't take the time off to recover 00:14:40.580 --> 00:14:46.179 so I thought right this has to change I really 00:14:46.179 --> 00:14:48.769 really want to make sure that Whatever I do, 00:14:48.809 --> 00:14:51.750 it's helping other people to either not have 00:14:51.750 --> 00:14:54.509 to feel the way I'm feeling or if they are feeling 00:14:54.509 --> 00:14:57.049 that way, to support them through it and just 00:14:57.049 --> 00:15:00.190 to do something about this problem that I'm experiencing 00:15:00.190 --> 00:15:02.389 because I could see a lot of other people going 00:15:02.389 --> 00:15:05.570 through the same thing. So I thought, OK, well, 00:15:05.669 --> 00:15:08.750 maybe I want to be a counsellor or maybe I want 00:15:08.750 --> 00:15:11.649 to be a coach, but I didn't really know what... 00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:14.379 the difference was and what a coach was so I 00:15:14.379 --> 00:15:16.539 went and did a free weekend course learned what 00:15:16.539 --> 00:15:18.860 coaching was fell in love with it thought this 00:15:18.860 --> 00:15:22.100 is incredible it's so powerful and I thought 00:15:22.100 --> 00:15:24.159 I want to I want to learn some more about this 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:26.299 I probably still wasn't at that point fully thinking 00:15:26.299 --> 00:15:29.399 I can do this as a full -time job in my own business 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:32.220 but I thought this is a this is a route to doing 00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:34.159 something more positive and that's what I needed 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:38.940 so I went and trained with a coaching school 00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:41.870 in London. which meant travelling down from Yorkshire 00:15:41.870 --> 00:15:44.610 to London at weekends. And it was a big undertaking, 00:15:44.909 --> 00:15:48.370 but I loved every second of it. It was absolutely 00:15:48.370 --> 00:15:51.649 brilliant. I was learning a lot about myself 00:15:51.649 --> 00:15:54.809 and a lot about how to support my team. So I 00:15:54.809 --> 00:15:56.750 started using that, still working for that same 00:15:56.750 --> 00:16:00.049 business, I started using that with my team and 00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:04.470 realising that, wow, I felt really overloaded 00:16:04.470 --> 00:16:06.850 with work before. But when I started coaching 00:16:06.850 --> 00:16:10.190 my team and I stopped... just giving them all 00:16:10.190 --> 00:16:12.269 the answers when there was a problem and instead 00:16:12.269 --> 00:16:14.850 coach them through it and ask them questions 00:16:14.850 --> 00:16:17.610 about, have you seen this before? And what ideas 00:16:17.610 --> 00:16:19.730 have you come up with? And what are the risks 00:16:19.730 --> 00:16:22.009 associated with this if it continues? And, you 00:16:22.009 --> 00:16:23.549 know, all of those kind of coaching questions. 00:16:24.750 --> 00:16:29.269 And they started coming up with solutions and 00:16:29.269 --> 00:16:32.169 ideas themselves. And yeah, everything just got 00:16:32.169 --> 00:16:35.129 loads better from the point of view of how I 00:16:35.129 --> 00:16:38.789 was running my team. And I got so much. out of 00:16:38.789 --> 00:16:42.110 seeing people develop it was just fascinating 00:16:42.110 --> 00:16:48.470 and made me feel wonderful but the culture and 00:16:48.470 --> 00:16:52.009 environment was still horrendous so i ended up 00:16:52.009 --> 00:16:54.909 leaving there i ended up um Someone else who'd 00:16:54.909 --> 00:16:56.850 left because they were miserable contacted me 00:16:56.850 --> 00:16:58.649 and said, hey, where I've moved to is really 00:16:58.649 --> 00:17:00.789 good. And they're looking for someone who does 00:17:00.789 --> 00:17:03.809 what you do. Because I always ended up going 00:17:03.809 --> 00:17:06.390 into businesses to set up functions and teams 00:17:06.390 --> 00:17:08.289 that didn't exist before. So setting everything 00:17:08.289 --> 00:17:12.269 up from scratch. And this other business needed 00:17:12.269 --> 00:17:15.730 that. So I went in and applied for the job. I 00:17:15.730 --> 00:17:19.289 got it. And I left that toxic environment. So 00:17:19.289 --> 00:17:23.170 that was a very good move. I just couldn't believe 00:17:23.170 --> 00:17:27.549 how, yeah, how much lighter I felt. Yes. And 00:17:27.549 --> 00:17:31.190 the impact that that place had had on you. It 00:17:31.190 --> 00:17:34.809 was quite fascinating watching you describe that 00:17:34.809 --> 00:17:37.170 experience, Bianca, because obviously it started 00:17:37.170 --> 00:17:39.849 out with the description of a very toxic workplace 00:17:39.849 --> 00:17:43.809 and a culture that made you physically ill. And 00:17:43.809 --> 00:17:45.710 then you started talking about the coaching and 00:17:45.710 --> 00:17:48.569 your face completely lit up. And it's really 00:17:48.569 --> 00:17:51.369 different to how you were talking about going 00:17:51.369 --> 00:17:53.549 into IT, you know, back in the day or did a bit 00:17:53.549 --> 00:17:54.849 of computing. So I went off to do a computer 00:17:54.849 --> 00:17:57.710 degree and that was all very practical and pragmatic 00:17:57.710 --> 00:18:00.269 and sensible, you know. But there wasn't really 00:18:00.269 --> 00:18:04.049 any heart in it. Watching you describe the coaching 00:18:04.049 --> 00:18:07.769 and how. you just fell in love with it. You use 00:18:07.769 --> 00:18:10.289 that word, I fell in love with it. It's just 00:18:10.289 --> 00:18:11.890 wonderful, isn't it? Because I think that's such 00:18:11.890 --> 00:18:16.009 a massive message for younger women is where 00:18:16.009 --> 00:18:19.130 are you putting your energy? And we can spend 00:18:19.130 --> 00:18:23.210 so many years investing so much hard work, particularly 00:18:23.210 --> 00:18:25.509 if you're a conscientious, ambitious person, 00:18:25.589 --> 00:18:31.250 into a field or an environment that's okay. Yeah. 00:18:31.309 --> 00:18:36.900 But it isn't feeding that real. love or or feeding 00:18:36.900 --> 00:18:40.619 your soul in in some way this clearly does when 00:18:40.619 --> 00:18:42.940 you learned about coaching how did you shield 00:18:42.940 --> 00:18:45.640 them by using coaching from what was going on 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:49.519 in that bigger environment would you say it was 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:53.400 making sure that my team had a safe space to 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:56.920 express themselves being very open and curious 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:01.220 about their experiences so that if they weren't 00:19:01.220 --> 00:19:03.799 happy with how they're being treated for example 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:06.980 then they had a safe space where they could talk 00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:10.359 about that and express that um and i could offer 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:13.119 them support or find out from them what support 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:16.539 they needed and helping people think through 00:19:16.539 --> 00:19:22.980 options as well um and okay well what is within 00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:26.039 your control again and helping them to discover 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:28.640 this there's some things that you you're never 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:30.700 going to be able to control they're out of your 00:19:30.700 --> 00:19:33.259 control but maybe you can influence certain things 00:19:33.259 --> 00:19:35.359 and and helping them to figure out what those 00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:37.079 things are that they could influence and making 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:42.460 a plan with them for that um and then also making 00:19:42.460 --> 00:19:44.440 it clear that yeah they do have options they 00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:46.740 don't have to stay here I mean I didn't have 00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:49.220 those conversations say maybe you should leave 00:19:49.220 --> 00:19:51.559 but it's more okay well let's look at what your 00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:54.019 options are what what could you do in this situation 00:19:54.019 --> 00:19:55.920 and how about if it doesn't change what's that 00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:59.549 going to mean for you and helping them to explore 00:19:59.549 --> 00:20:04.309 their own feelings. So it was a lot of listening. 00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:08.400 being really open, being very supportive and 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:10.740 listening to their experiences and not assuming 00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:13.559 that because I'm very stressed about something, 00:20:13.619 --> 00:20:15.640 that means that they necessarily are because 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:17.519 we all experience things in different ways as 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:20.240 well. So it could be that they haven't even noticed 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:22.920 a certain thing I've noticed. So it was being 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:25.559 careful not to point things out and just to find 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:28.279 out, OK, well, what is your experience of this 00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:32.079 situation? Genuinely empathising with their point 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:34.789 of view, whatever that may be. there might be 00:20:34.789 --> 00:20:36.589 like you say commonalities and how you're viewing 00:20:36.589 --> 00:20:38.450 things but there might also be differences yeah 00:20:38.450 --> 00:20:41.750 what would you say to leaders listening or managers 00:20:41.750 --> 00:20:44.029 listening that might say oh my gosh but if I 00:20:44.029 --> 00:20:46.329 go and ask people you know what's going on and 00:20:46.329 --> 00:20:48.250 what do you need they're going to expect me to 00:20:48.250 --> 00:20:51.680 have the answer What I love about coaching is 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:54.079 that you don't have to have the answers. And 00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:56.299 also, if you don't ask the questions, then I 00:20:56.299 --> 00:20:58.220 think that's a lot more scary, because if you 00:20:58.220 --> 00:20:59.640 don't ask the questions, you're never going to 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:02.259 know the answers. And actually, they might continue 00:21:02.259 --> 00:21:05.480 down a path that means they leave. And if you 00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:06.839 don't want them to leave, you know, you've got 00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:09.180 a good member of staff there, then it's much 00:21:09.180 --> 00:21:12.519 better to find out what is going on. And then, 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:14.000 yeah, you don't need to have the answers. You 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.480 need to have questions. And OK, so I understand 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:22.299 what. your experiences from what you're explaining 00:21:22.299 --> 00:21:26.180 and what would you like to happen? How do you 00:21:26.180 --> 00:21:29.900 see this resolving itself? And just asking them 00:21:29.900 --> 00:21:33.519 for the solutions, which they may not have, but 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:35.720 if you ask them different questions and help 00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:38.500 them to explore, then usually people do have 00:21:38.500 --> 00:21:43.000 some ideas that they can try. Yeah, so you don't 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:45.140 need to have the answers. You just need to be 00:21:45.140 --> 00:21:47.900 able to ask people and trust that they have great 00:21:47.900 --> 00:21:52.240 ideas. Yes, and that they need to be empowered 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.140 to do things their own way. I think one of the 00:21:56.140 --> 00:21:59.960 fascinating things about coaching is that idea 00:21:59.960 --> 00:22:02.319 that, well, first off, I think a lot of leaders 00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:04.019 and managers, I'm sure you've experienced this 00:22:04.019 --> 00:22:10.000 just like I have, feel obliged to decide for 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.359 their teams, to solve the problems for their 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:14.059 teams. They see that as their responsibility. 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:16.319 It's what I'm here for. It's what I'm paid for. 00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:20.390 It's my job to... sort things out and look after 00:22:20.390 --> 00:22:23.549 people really it's quite parental perhaps absolutely 00:22:23.549 --> 00:22:27.829 in outlook however what we need as recipients 00:22:27.829 --> 00:22:31.049 of leadership is more facilitation than direction 00:22:31.049 --> 00:22:35.390 yeah it is and and often as well because we're 00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:37.940 managers and we're the ones with years of experience 00:22:37.940 --> 00:22:41.160 we we kind of assume that we do have the best 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:43.859 answers sometimes when people start out with 00:22:43.859 --> 00:22:46.059 coaching they they think well I'll I'll just 00:22:46.059 --> 00:22:47.680 kind of go along with it I'll go through the 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.720 the process but they don't really believe that 00:22:51.099 --> 00:22:53.019 Someone else might have a better idea than them 00:22:53.019 --> 00:22:55.279 just because they're the ones with years of experience. 00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.579 They've seen these things before. It's reminding 00:22:57.579 --> 00:22:59.900 me, actually, of a number of years ago, I was 00:22:59.900 --> 00:23:03.140 working in an NHS trust and running some leadership 00:23:03.140 --> 00:23:06.500 development workshops. And one of them was on 00:23:06.500 --> 00:23:08.960 coaching. And there was a very senior surgeon 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.079 who, after this day, came to speak to me to say, 00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:14.940 you know, he thought I was. very nice and you 00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:17.579 know that obviously knew my stuff but for him 00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:20.880 this was never going to be a thing you know he 00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:24.720 had to be very decisive he was the most experienced 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.640 and specialist person in that room and sometimes 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:31.240 you do just have to tell and we parted company 00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:35.119 agreeing to disagree and then the next morning 00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.079 I was back in the same environment in the same 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:40.180 room just setting up for another group that were 00:23:40.180 --> 00:23:42.559 coming in and he popped his head around the door 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:44.480 and he said oh I just wanted to let you know 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:46.799 that I went out to the pub last night with an 00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:49.599 old friend of mine and he said to me I need some 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:52.220 advice and it was of a personal nature I think 00:23:52.220 --> 00:23:55.980 some marital issues he said and I thought hmm 00:23:55.980 --> 00:23:59.180 I'll try a bit of this coaching he said so I 00:23:59.180 --> 00:24:01.799 just did what what you'd suggested. I just asked 00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:03.779 questions. And do you know what he said at the 00:24:03.779 --> 00:24:06.299 end? He said, thank you. That's the best advice 00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:09.420 I've ever had. He said, and I hadn't given him 00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:13.619 any of my ideas. He said, so I'm going to give 00:24:13.619 --> 00:24:15.779 this some thought. And it was one of those lovely 00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:18.519 moments where somebody with a really big brain 00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:23.160 had gone away and to his credit thought, just 00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:25.420 going to have, in a safe environment, just going 00:24:25.420 --> 00:24:27.940 to have a go and see if there's anything in it. 00:24:28.950 --> 00:24:31.109 fortunately realised that actually it's a great 00:24:31.109 --> 00:24:33.690 tactic. And I don't think you would say, or I 00:24:33.690 --> 00:24:36.009 would say, or anyone in this world of leadership 00:24:36.009 --> 00:24:39.470 development would say, coach all the time. It's 00:24:39.470 --> 00:24:42.609 a tactic, isn't it? In your kit bag, it's what 00:24:42.609 --> 00:24:45.349 you use when the situation or the individual 00:24:45.349 --> 00:24:50.910 needs that kind of... enabling empowering or 00:24:50.910 --> 00:24:55.430 emotionally supportive assistance yeah yeah I 00:24:55.430 --> 00:24:59.390 love that story so much and and I bet what happened 00:24:59.390 --> 00:25:02.470 in that situation was because when you when you 00:25:02.470 --> 00:25:05.750 just give someone advice it You feel like you're 00:25:05.750 --> 00:25:09.210 being really useful, really helpful, but you're 00:25:09.210 --> 00:25:11.829 given the advice that would work for you. It's 00:25:11.829 --> 00:25:14.069 not necessarily going to work for the other person 00:25:14.069 --> 00:25:16.190 because you're very different. You have different 00:25:16.190 --> 00:25:18.230 lives. You have different ways your brain works, 00:25:18.309 --> 00:25:21.470 different experiences at work. So by saying to 00:25:21.470 --> 00:25:23.650 someone, OK, you're experiencing this, you need 00:25:23.650 --> 00:25:26.509 to do A, B and C and then that's going to fix 00:25:26.509 --> 00:25:29.210 it. And then you might say, all right, OK, but 00:25:29.210 --> 00:25:31.690 that might that solution might not work for you 00:25:31.690 --> 00:25:34.200 because you might. find that particular advice 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:37.599 quite difficult or triggering or you know if 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.119 instead you're asked questions to help you to 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:43.279 find your own solution you're going to come up 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:46.180 with a solution that feels realistic and doable 00:25:46.180 --> 00:25:49.079 and something that is going to work for you which 00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:51.680 is obviously a lot better if it's going to actually 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:54.940 work than just trying to follow someone else's 00:25:54.940 --> 00:25:58.160 advice that isn't necessarily going to give you 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:00.500 the end result that you're after. Oh my gosh, 00:26:00.500 --> 00:26:04.500 it's so much more motivational power. when it's 00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:08.660 that person's own idea yeah that too yeah let's 00:26:08.660 --> 00:26:11.299 face it none of us really like advice i mean 00:26:11.299 --> 00:26:14.700 we ask for it but we don't really want it we 00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:17.480 actually what we really want is for someone to 00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:20.619 just listen to our problem and help us work out 00:26:20.619 --> 00:26:23.839 what we are going to do We don't really enjoy 00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:26.299 it. I don't think when anybody says, oh, I've 00:26:26.299 --> 00:26:28.039 had exactly the same thing and this is what you 00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:30.640 should do next, A, B and C. I think we can feel 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.380 a bit bristly. Yeah, because really we want to 00:26:33.380 --> 00:26:36.799 be listened to, don't we? And it's so rare to 00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:40.140 have someone just listen and not jump in with 00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:42.440 advice that I think that's a real gift as well. 00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:46.779 Just having that space to talk and to think with 00:26:46.779 --> 00:26:48.839 someone not jumping in straight away, just allowing 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:51.819 that silence to be there. Yeah, it's so powerful. 00:26:51.950 --> 00:26:55.329 and it's really great with teams to get buy -in 00:26:55.329 --> 00:26:59.170 as well. If you need a new process, you need 00:26:59.170 --> 00:27:01.730 a new way of doing things, then rather than as 00:27:01.730 --> 00:27:04.009 the manager thinking, right, I better come up 00:27:04.009 --> 00:27:06.490 with this and then I'll write up this new process 00:27:06.490 --> 00:27:08.349 and I'll give it to my team and I'll train them 00:27:08.349 --> 00:27:10.609 on it. Instead, getting everyone together and 00:27:10.609 --> 00:27:13.109 saying, right, this is the end result we're after. 00:27:13.230 --> 00:27:15.589 This is where we're at now. How should we do 00:27:15.589 --> 00:27:18.710 this? And then coaching the team through coming 00:27:18.710 --> 00:27:20.950 up with a new process and they are going to follow 00:27:20.950 --> 00:27:23.599 that. process if they've come up with it and 00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:26.039 they're going to keep an eye on it and make sure 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:28.640 that it's continuously improved as well because 00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:31.740 they care about it because it's their process 00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:35.380 yes yeah and it's that so that's yeah really 00:27:35.380 --> 00:27:38.359 powerful so that discovering coaching obviously 00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:41.059 changed you it changed how you approach management 00:27:41.059 --> 00:27:43.980 and leadership it also was something you started 00:27:43.980 --> 00:27:46.500 to feel very passionate about doing more broadly 00:27:47.289 --> 00:27:49.390 But it's the impact that you saw it have on other 00:27:49.390 --> 00:27:52.549 people as well. So there was that whole thing 00:27:52.549 --> 00:27:54.750 of they were taking more ownership because you 00:27:54.750 --> 00:27:56.990 were asking more questions and giving them more 00:27:56.990 --> 00:28:00.829 airspace to make their own suggestions and have 00:28:00.829 --> 00:28:03.809 control over the direction of travel, which is... 00:28:04.029 --> 00:28:06.470 you know, really motivational for people. I can 00:28:06.470 --> 00:28:08.369 completely see why you fell in love with it and 00:28:08.369 --> 00:28:10.130 why you wanted to spend your time doing that 00:28:10.130 --> 00:28:12.769 completely. But tell us a little bit about that, 00:28:12.809 --> 00:28:15.890 because you said a little bit a while ago about, 00:28:15.890 --> 00:28:18.650 oh, I never really thought I could run my own 00:28:18.650 --> 00:28:21.450 business. Not only did you not know how to do 00:28:21.450 --> 00:28:24.309 it, you didn't think you maybe had the capacity 00:28:24.309 --> 00:28:28.130 to do it. So what changed? What made you take 00:28:28.130 --> 00:28:30.170 that step and go, well, I'm just going to do 00:28:30.170 --> 00:28:34.160 it anyway? There were a number of things. So 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.559 one thing is finding something I was passionate 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:39.799 enough about that I thought, I want to be doing 00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:43.420 this all the time. And seeing the impact it had, 00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:45.740 thinking, wow, what if I could have this impact, 00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:48.000 not just in the business I'm working in now, 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:51.440 but in lots of businesses. And that would improve 00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:54.619 so many people's lives. And that was really inspiring 00:28:54.619 --> 00:28:59.920 and motivating. Then there was also during COVID, 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:04.079 I had a little girl and that changed everything 00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:09.400 as it does, changed how I saw myself, changed 00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:14.420 how I saw my life. And suddenly I had this little 00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:18.000 being and I wanted everything for her, as I still 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:23.190 do. And I wanted to create workplaces. that were 00:29:23.190 --> 00:29:25.690 really positive, wonderful places to be where 00:29:25.690 --> 00:29:29.289 people could really be themselves and reach their 00:29:29.289 --> 00:29:31.769 full potential. And I wanted that for my daughter 00:29:31.769 --> 00:29:35.190 for when she grew up. And I wanted her to see 00:29:35.190 --> 00:29:39.470 what you can do if you really want to and that 00:29:39.470 --> 00:29:42.490 you can do anything and you can at least try 00:29:42.490 --> 00:29:45.490 anything. And even if it doesn't work out, the 00:29:45.490 --> 00:29:48.230 fact that you're giving it a go is really powerful. 00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:51.299 And that you don't have to be scared of giving 00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:54.640 things a go. And this gives you real meaningful 00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:59.160 purpose, I imagine, isn't it? Very similar to 00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:02.619 my inspiration for the podcast was to share some 00:30:02.619 --> 00:30:04.500 of the things I've learned with my daughters 00:30:04.500 --> 00:30:07.359 because I'm anticipating they probably won't 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:10.160 listen to me. that advice thing again. But I'm 00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:11.759 like, when they sit and listen to you talking, 00:30:11.819 --> 00:30:13.640 they might think, oh, actually, that's really 00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:16.720 cool. I like that. So I think that when you become 00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:21.420 a parent, that desire to make the world better 00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:26.180 for your children is really relatable. Yeah. 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:28.880 And I think you also have an increased awareness 00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:32.180 of there is an end at some point. You have a 00:30:32.180 --> 00:30:34.619 certain amount of life left. Yes. And what do 00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:38.420 I want to do with this life? I think you lose 00:30:38.420 --> 00:30:41.240 a lot of freedom when you become a parent as 00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:44.339 well for wonderful reasons. But it is a fact 00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:47.599 that you can't just do whatever you want whenever 00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:51.140 you want. And so time becomes a lot more precious. 00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:53.660 And do I really want to spend that time working 00:30:53.660 --> 00:30:57.140 for other people in something that's fine and 00:30:57.140 --> 00:30:59.559 I'm earning good money? Or do I want to be doing 00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:02.660 something that really lights me up and where 00:31:02.660 --> 00:31:05.710 I feel like I'm making a big impact? And, of 00:31:05.710 --> 00:31:09.890 course, that's the one that I chose. So did she 00:31:09.890 --> 00:31:12.470 make you brave, do you think, your daughter, 00:31:12.549 --> 00:31:14.710 in some sense, because she gave you something 00:31:14.710 --> 00:31:19.069 that was bigger? Yes, I think so. I mean, I've 00:31:19.069 --> 00:31:22.390 always been brave in a lot of different ways. 00:31:23.170 --> 00:31:26.549 I've travelled the world by myself for two years. 00:31:27.109 --> 00:31:29.789 That's pretty brave. Yeah, jumped out of planes 00:31:29.789 --> 00:31:34.960 three times. OK. I'm a diving instructor as well, 00:31:35.019 --> 00:31:38.599 so I dive in very small enclosed spaces underwater. 00:31:38.740 --> 00:31:41.700 So there's certain types of bravery that have 00:31:41.700 --> 00:31:44.880 always been there. I don't know if it's bravery 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:49.519 or if it's just felt like necessity. I now have 00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:53.720 to do it. And yeah, I don't know. It depends 00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:56.240 on the definition of bravery, I guess, because 00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:59.619 whenever I've doubted myself, I've recognised. 00:32:00.269 --> 00:32:02.450 i've doubted i'm doubting myself and that i'm 00:32:02.450 --> 00:32:04.930 not feeling very confident and i'm wondering 00:32:04.930 --> 00:32:08.529 if it's all going to work out but then i continue 00:32:08.529 --> 00:32:11.009 and take all the steps that i need to take anyway 00:32:11.009 --> 00:32:13.890 being aware those feelings are there but just 00:32:13.890 --> 00:32:16.289 thinking well but i am just going to continue 00:32:16.289 --> 00:32:19.460 i just carry on doing the steps and then your 00:32:19.460 --> 00:32:22.440 bravery or confidence will come back again at 00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:25.799 some point. You know, there's ups and downs when 00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:27.880 you have your own business. And having the capacity 00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:31.440 to calm yourself down internally, self -talk 00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:33.640 yourself through that, is that something you've 00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:35.720 always had or is that something you learned? 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:39.819 So I started on lots of personal development 00:32:39.819 --> 00:32:44.299 and figuring out how my brain worked when I was 00:32:44.299 --> 00:32:47.859 quite young. I think it was through... I lost 00:32:47.859 --> 00:32:50.339 my mum when I was 14 and then my brother a couple 00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:54.859 of years after that. And so I went into a bit 00:32:54.859 --> 00:33:01.960 of a dark place for a good while and didn't want 00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:05.960 to get up in the mornings. And it got to a certain 00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:07.440 point where I thought, right, well, I've got 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.400 to get myself out of this. And I just started 00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:14.980 noticing things. that lifted me and things that 00:33:14.980 --> 00:33:17.900 brought me down just really on a very simple 00:33:17.900 --> 00:33:21.039 level of oh when I listen to this music I it 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.980 makes me cry more or if I listen to this other 00:33:23.980 --> 00:33:26.660 song I feel like I want to dance actually and 00:33:26.660 --> 00:33:29.359 it really it totally changes my mood when I move 00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:32.299 my body more actually I feel really good afterwards 00:33:32.299 --> 00:33:36.079 even if I felt really awful to begin with and 00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:39.480 just starting to notice things like this I think 00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:43.400 took me down a path of This is interesting. You 00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:45.980 know, there are definitely things that I can 00:33:45.980 --> 00:33:50.640 manipulate so that I feel certain ways and I 00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:53.700 want to explore this more. And so I just played 00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:57.319 with it and just started noticing things about 00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:01.039 myself and and also starting to backtrack more. 00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:05.640 So if I felt not very brave or I felt. really 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:08.519 sad or I felt angry I think okay so something 00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:10.940 has led me to feel like that what what was it 00:34:10.940 --> 00:34:13.860 at what point did that feeling change and just 00:34:13.860 --> 00:34:16.900 kind of going back in my mind and thinking okay 00:34:16.900 --> 00:34:19.579 what was when that thing happened interesting 00:34:19.579 --> 00:34:22.659 so when this kind of thing happens I feel like 00:34:22.659 --> 00:34:26.920 that so what can I do to change that and just 00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:31.769 yeah learning a lot just by myself, by noticing 00:34:31.769 --> 00:34:34.690 my feelings and what had led those feelings to 00:34:34.690 --> 00:34:37.409 be there. And that hadn't come from counselling 00:34:37.409 --> 00:34:40.250 or anything like that. You just noticed on your 00:34:40.250 --> 00:34:43.030 own that actually something quite powerful like 00:34:43.030 --> 00:34:46.969 music changes how I am feeling. And that insight, 00:34:47.150 --> 00:34:49.789 it sounds like that then led you down a route 00:34:49.789 --> 00:34:52.010 where you started to interrogate how you were 00:34:52.010 --> 00:34:54.989 feeling and how you were thinking. And I think 00:34:54.989 --> 00:34:56.989 this is one of the most powerful things we can 00:34:56.989 --> 00:35:01.449 learn about our own mind is that we do have more 00:35:01.449 --> 00:35:05.070 influence maybe over how we experience the world 00:35:05.070 --> 00:35:08.909 than we can assume that we do yeah yeah absolutely 00:35:08.909 --> 00:35:12.650 yeah and the and the more you start doing that 00:35:12.650 --> 00:35:16.369 interrogation the more you discover about yourself 00:35:16.369 --> 00:35:18.469 and how you work and the more you can change 00:35:18.469 --> 00:35:21.329 your situation and change your perception of 00:35:21.329 --> 00:35:25.809 things and I'm from then to now I mean Yeah, 00:35:25.829 --> 00:35:28.570 I'm now an extremely positive person. And if 00:35:28.570 --> 00:35:31.849 something happens that's not great, something 00:35:31.849 --> 00:35:34.730 that I'd prefer didn't happen, I'll always find 00:35:34.730 --> 00:35:37.409 something that I've learned from it or a positive 00:35:37.409 --> 00:35:40.190 I've gained from it or find a way to see it from 00:35:40.190 --> 00:35:43.570 a different angle. So it's not dismissing the 00:35:43.570 --> 00:35:46.010 fact that that thing has happened. You know, 00:35:46.010 --> 00:35:48.010 I can acknowledge, yeah, that's difficult. I 00:35:48.010 --> 00:35:50.750 would rather that hadn't happened. But actually, 00:35:50.929 --> 00:35:53.909 there's some positives I can get from this. And 00:35:53.909 --> 00:35:56.579 that has come from that. Those beginnings of 00:35:56.579 --> 00:36:00.480 just noticing things about myself and continuing 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:03.239 down that path and then starting to do some reading 00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:06.780 and then, you know, just learning from lots of 00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:09.519 different places more about the mind and how 00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:12.960 we work and and how we can change that so that. 00:36:13.420 --> 00:36:15.820 We can be in a happier place. Yeah, which all 00:36:15.820 --> 00:36:18.199 relates over back to what you're professionally 00:36:18.199 --> 00:36:21.539 doing now as a coach. Yeah. Doesn't it? And what 00:36:21.539 --> 00:36:24.360 your experience is showing really is that reality 00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:26.119 of resilience, isn't it? I think I work with 00:36:26.119 --> 00:36:28.219 a lot of people who will say to me, I just wish 00:36:28.219 --> 00:36:30.380 I was more resilient. And their assumption is 00:36:30.380 --> 00:36:34.000 that this is something that you're lucky to have. 00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:36.000 It's like a personality factor. It's something 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:39.320 we're born with. However, all the research would 00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:41.559 tell us that resilience is something we develop 00:36:41.559 --> 00:36:44.489 and we develop it. In the face of adversity. 00:36:44.949 --> 00:36:47.610 And so, and you're actually describing there 00:36:47.610 --> 00:36:51.289 how you individually started to notice these 00:36:51.289 --> 00:36:53.190 things help me, these things hinder me. So I 00:36:53.190 --> 00:36:56.070 need to do more of that and less of that. And 00:36:56.070 --> 00:36:59.409 you're not denying the emotional turbulence of, 00:36:59.469 --> 00:37:01.289 well, this was a bad day or this was a sad thing. 00:37:01.949 --> 00:37:04.969 However, you are then in that very learned optimism 00:37:04.969 --> 00:37:08.010 way going, but where are the positives I can 00:37:08.010 --> 00:37:11.289 take from this? How do I put it in perspective? 00:37:12.130 --> 00:37:14.849 compared to other things I've faced in life or 00:37:14.849 --> 00:37:16.409 other things going on in the world? Or how do 00:37:16.409 --> 00:37:21.250 I really look for the learning within it and 00:37:21.250 --> 00:37:23.849 the extra insight I've gained? Or what pride 00:37:23.849 --> 00:37:27.650 can I take in how I've handled that? You know, 00:37:27.670 --> 00:37:30.030 that I kept it together and I didn't fall apart. 00:37:30.730 --> 00:37:34.590 And all of these things, like finding, like you 00:37:34.590 --> 00:37:38.090 say, those little nuggets of golden positivity 00:37:38.090 --> 00:37:42.449 within all of that drama. that might be going 00:37:42.449 --> 00:37:44.610 on I think that's a really it's like the essence 00:37:44.610 --> 00:37:47.929 of being resilient isn't it yeah yeah I've I've 00:37:47.929 --> 00:37:50.769 had some real ups and downs in my life yeah and 00:37:50.769 --> 00:37:54.989 I can see how all of the ups and the downs have 00:37:54.989 --> 00:37:58.010 led me to where I am now and I wouldn't have 00:37:58.010 --> 00:38:00.409 had the knowledge or experience that I have now 00:38:00.409 --> 00:38:04.969 if those hadn't happened so yeah it's I think 00:38:04.969 --> 00:38:08.570 a lot of it was letting myself feel the feelings 00:38:08.570 --> 00:38:13.139 but not I was i got fed up very early of being 00:38:13.139 --> 00:38:16.260 stuck in that kind of pit of despair and thinking 00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:18.559 yeah i need to be able to feel these feelings 00:38:18.559 --> 00:38:21.619 but i need to have a root out as well and it 00:38:21.619 --> 00:38:23.579 makes sense that when you were saying that you 00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:27.199 were in that toxic culture and you had the panic 00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:29.519 attack and the ambulance was called and for a 00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:32.300 lot of people that might just be a spiral into 00:38:33.179 --> 00:38:35.840 this is just awful, I can't escape this, I'm 00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:38.780 stuck, feeling a bit helpless or feeling a bit 00:38:38.780 --> 00:38:41.539 ashamed maybe that you can't cope and all of 00:38:41.539 --> 00:38:43.699 those things make possibly even becoming depressed. 00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:47.639 Whereas you'd said your thought was, I need to 00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:49.760 get out of here and do something different with 00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:53.119 my life. So even in that, at that point, that 00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:56.860 resilience that you had kind of trained into 00:38:56.860 --> 00:38:59.300 your brain earlier on was coming in as a little 00:38:59.300 --> 00:39:03.590 bit of a defence in your darkest. hours wasn't 00:39:03.590 --> 00:39:07.210 it yeah yeah it was but also I'd like to make 00:39:07.210 --> 00:39:09.869 clear that it wasn't that I was miserable when 00:39:09.869 --> 00:39:12.070 I thought right now I'm gonna leave I did stay 00:39:12.070 --> 00:39:15.269 there for too long so just for anyone who's listening 00:39:15.269 --> 00:39:17.429 if you are stuck in a position like that and 00:39:17.429 --> 00:39:19.510 you feel like I've stayed here this long you 00:39:19.510 --> 00:39:22.909 know um I can't change things now you can change 00:39:22.909 --> 00:39:26.869 things it any points and not to feel ashamed 00:39:26.869 --> 00:39:29.690 of having stayed somewhere too long or stayed 00:39:29.690 --> 00:39:31.809 in a situation for too long that doesn't mean 00:39:31.809 --> 00:39:34.449 that you can't change it now because yeah it 00:39:34.449 --> 00:39:37.610 did take me too long as well but um yeah that 00:39:37.610 --> 00:39:39.769 resilience did come through it for me in the 00:39:39.769 --> 00:39:41.750 end it came through yeah no that's a really important 00:39:41.750 --> 00:39:44.269 point isn't it and i think we can like double 00:39:44.269 --> 00:39:46.610 down on these decisions you know i came here 00:39:46.610 --> 00:39:48.969 i was i've got a job to do i'm going to see it 00:39:48.969 --> 00:39:52.429 through and and we start to feel compelled to 00:39:53.630 --> 00:39:56.570 remain where we are and so that can become a 00:39:56.570 --> 00:39:59.269 bit of a sticky literally sticky kind of experience 00:39:59.269 --> 00:40:01.969 to get out of isn't it so I think yeah also if 00:40:01.969 --> 00:40:04.050 you feel as though you are protecting other people 00:40:04.050 --> 00:40:06.349 and and they're relying on you then you think 00:40:06.349 --> 00:40:09.449 oh well maybe I should stay for them but actually 00:40:09.449 --> 00:40:11.349 you know everyone's responsible for their own 00:40:11.349 --> 00:40:16.280 lives and and They'll be OK anyway. And I knew 00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:18.619 they'd be OK whether that was they'd also make 00:40:18.619 --> 00:40:21.039 their decision to leave, which a lot of people 00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:24.159 did. So perhaps you role modelled something by 00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:27.159 going. Yeah, yeah. So maybe you were helping 00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:29.460 them. I think one of the most challenging things 00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:33.179 I hear from managers and leaders is that moving 00:40:33.179 --> 00:40:35.789 from being. the professional performer yourself 00:40:35.789 --> 00:40:39.030 and it all being about you to being the facilitator 00:40:39.030 --> 00:40:41.630 of other people's performance and when you think 00:40:41.630 --> 00:40:43.789 about it right from childhood it's all about 00:40:43.789 --> 00:40:45.590 the individual isn't it right through school 00:40:45.590 --> 00:40:48.489 college university in the first decade or couple 00:40:48.489 --> 00:40:51.070 of decades of work potentially then all of a 00:40:51.070 --> 00:40:52.869 sudden it's not really about you anymore it's 00:40:52.869 --> 00:40:57.170 about them and often that'll take a lot of time 00:40:57.170 --> 00:41:01.880 for people to get their head around that concept, 00:41:01.940 --> 00:41:05.639 but then to enact it. And I think what's great 00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:08.880 about the offering you're bringing to the marketplace 00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:11.179 is it's giving people in a very tech environment, 00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:14.840 which is, you know, I imagine a lot to do with 00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:17.800 being a real knowledgeable performer as an individual. 00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:19.800 That's how you get in there and that's how you 00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:22.219 stand out in there. But giving them those real 00:41:22.219 --> 00:41:26.980 people skills that help them to help their teams. 00:41:27.300 --> 00:41:31.429 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Because it is an entirely 00:41:31.429 --> 00:41:34.929 different set of skills, managing a team and 00:41:34.929 --> 00:41:38.110 tech skills. I mean, yeah, one does not mean 00:41:38.110 --> 00:41:40.750 that you're good at the other, but it doesn't 00:41:40.750 --> 00:41:42.989 have to be that hard either. And people don't 00:41:42.989 --> 00:41:46.650 need to suffer through it. And it's so worth 00:41:46.650 --> 00:41:51.070 just investing a bit of... time and money into 00:41:51.070 --> 00:41:54.389 supporting managers properly because then you 00:41:54.389 --> 00:41:56.789 don't have all of the pain of people leaving 00:41:56.789 --> 00:41:59.030 because they're not happy or they're frustrated 00:41:59.030 --> 00:42:02.329 and that those new managers are just um their 00:42:02.329 --> 00:42:04.869 morale has gone right down because they were 00:42:04.869 --> 00:42:07.349 a really top performer before and then suddenly 00:42:07.349 --> 00:42:09.730 they're not performing so well and that's it's 00:42:09.730 --> 00:42:12.150 not fair really, you know, to have to be put 00:42:12.150 --> 00:42:15.130 in that position. So just a bit of support and 00:42:15.130 --> 00:42:18.429 some tactics can change all of that and get everyone 00:42:18.429 --> 00:42:20.769 working really well together. Yeah, it's reminding 00:42:20.769 --> 00:42:23.210 me of when I did my master's degree, I had to 00:42:23.210 --> 00:42:26.550 do a project in a company and it was a Japanese 00:42:26.550 --> 00:42:29.650 owned manufacturing organisation. And when I 00:42:29.650 --> 00:42:32.610 went in as a student to give my findings, one 00:42:32.610 --> 00:42:34.349 of the Japanese directors was there and he sat 00:42:34.349 --> 00:42:36.550 in, he was a very nice gentleman. And he was, 00:42:36.650 --> 00:42:39.940 mine was all about... team leadership, this thesis 00:42:39.940 --> 00:42:42.500 that I'd written. And he was kind of laughing 00:42:42.500 --> 00:42:44.539 with me over a cup of coffee afterwards saying, 00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:47.519 you do know that you... We can't lose against 00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:50.820 you here in the West because you take your best 00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:53.119 IT programmer and make them a people manager. 00:42:53.300 --> 00:42:55.860 You take your best salesperson and make them 00:42:55.860 --> 00:42:58.900 a people manager. You take your best doctor and 00:42:58.900 --> 00:43:00.960 make them a people manager. And he's like, we 00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:03.820 don't do that. You know, we have a different 00:43:03.820 --> 00:43:07.320 career path for people who have ambition or potential 00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:09.800 and they're treated differently. And that's the 00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:14.309 only way to get ahead. in our kind of Western 00:43:14.309 --> 00:43:16.869 organisations is to take on more people or more 00:43:16.869 --> 00:43:19.590 budgeting responsibility. Yeah. And obviously 00:43:19.590 --> 00:43:23.650 that doesn't suit everyone or doesn't come naturally 00:43:23.650 --> 00:43:26.170 to everyone. And it is, like you say, another 00:43:26.170 --> 00:43:28.989 different role. It's another profession that 00:43:28.989 --> 00:43:32.710 you're learning now on top of your IT or your 00:43:32.710 --> 00:43:36.190 marketing or your medical qualifications. And 00:43:36.190 --> 00:43:39.590 so I think having people out there that will 00:43:39.590 --> 00:43:43.389 come in and just help you, To just navigate that 00:43:43.389 --> 00:43:45.969 and build your confidence. Because I don't know 00:43:45.969 --> 00:43:49.269 about you, but I often see that people who might 00:43:49.269 --> 00:43:53.110 be kind of car crash managers in some senses, 00:43:53.170 --> 00:43:55.829 they have all these amazing skills outside of 00:43:55.829 --> 00:43:58.670 work. They're great parents. They coach sports 00:43:58.670 --> 00:44:01.030 teams. They're a really supportive friend that 00:44:01.030 --> 00:44:03.090 offers help and assistance. And you're like, 00:44:03.130 --> 00:44:05.929 oh, you have all the skills you need. You're 00:44:05.929 --> 00:44:09.139 just not bringing them to work. And often it's 00:44:09.139 --> 00:44:11.659 a very different way of leading a team as well, 00:44:11.739 --> 00:44:14.079 because we think managers are the ones who are 00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:17.260 there to direct and to say exactly what you should 00:44:17.260 --> 00:44:19.719 do and how you do it. That's not the best way 00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:23.460 of doing things. So, yeah, it's realising that 00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:26.510 actually there is a different way. And it's a 00:44:26.510 --> 00:44:29.230 better way. And it's OK to try this different 00:44:29.230 --> 00:44:33.050 approach. So having support from the top down 00:44:33.050 --> 00:44:36.789 in the business and having coaching really embraced 00:44:36.789 --> 00:44:39.989 just helps so much to let the managers know that 00:44:39.989 --> 00:44:42.849 actually, you know, we agree that this is the 00:44:42.849 --> 00:44:45.230 approach we want to take. And this is what's 00:44:45.230 --> 00:44:47.730 going to build the culture that we need to be 00:44:47.730 --> 00:44:50.469 where we want to be as a business and to help 00:44:50.469 --> 00:44:53.559 them to scale. Yeah. And to make those businesses 00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:58.519 better for our children and more confidence building, 00:44:58.699 --> 00:45:02.380 kind of stress reducing environment where people 00:45:02.380 --> 00:45:05.000 can feel that they're able to be themselves, 00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:08.239 but also realize their potential and be their 00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:11.789 best. Yeah. So everybody benefits. Yeah. Yeah, 00:45:11.789 --> 00:45:13.449 that's great, isn't it? It's lovely. And you 00:45:13.449 --> 00:45:15.909 also do some online workshops as well, don't 00:45:15.909 --> 00:45:17.849 you? Doing one about imposter syndrome at the 00:45:17.849 --> 00:45:19.570 moment. And so they come out quite regularly. 00:45:19.809 --> 00:45:22.070 They do. Through your website. And so if people 00:45:22.070 --> 00:45:23.869 are interested in Bianca's work and what she 00:45:23.869 --> 00:45:25.789 does and the messages, then you can obviously 00:45:25.789 --> 00:45:27.869 check her out and we'll put a link into our show 00:45:27.869 --> 00:45:30.389 notes. So there's a couple of questions I wanted 00:45:30.389 --> 00:45:34.969 to just finish on. The first is if there's somebody 00:45:34.969 --> 00:45:38.159 out there thinking. or aspiring to change their 00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:40.900 career and do something different, maybe to start 00:45:40.900 --> 00:45:42.840 their own business or maybe to just retrain in 00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:45.679 a different profession, what would be your advice 00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:48.599 to them? I know we said don't give advice, but 00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:52.239 what would be your kind of tips if they are in 00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:55.860 that, like, should I, shouldn't I? It depends 00:45:55.860 --> 00:45:57.760 if they have an inkling of what they want to 00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:01.929 go for next or not. If they do, then it's a matter 00:46:01.929 --> 00:46:04.329 of building confidence and making a plan. So 00:46:04.329 --> 00:46:08.230 before I quit my job, I had a spreadsheet. I 00:46:08.230 --> 00:46:11.050 worked out my budget. I knew how long, how much 00:46:11.050 --> 00:46:13.570 money I needed to save to keep me going for an 00:46:13.570 --> 00:46:15.369 amount of time that I thought would get me up 00:46:15.369 --> 00:46:18.170 and running. And building your confidence as 00:46:18.170 --> 00:46:20.929 well, because you're going to need it by doing 00:46:20.929 --> 00:46:23.889 things like looking back on your life and looking 00:46:23.889 --> 00:46:27.760 at the things that you've achieved. And recognising 00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:30.340 those because we're only too good at noticing 00:46:30.340 --> 00:46:32.599 the things we've done wrong, but we don't reflect 00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:34.800 enough on the things that we've done really well. 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:38.519 So spending time thinking about that and thinking 00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:41.920 about what are the skills and attributes that 00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:45.679 you had that meant that you could do that. And 00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:48.119 asking friends and colleagues as well for their 00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:50.739 opinions of what they think you would be good 00:46:50.739 --> 00:46:53.820 at. It can be really enlightening sometimes because 00:46:53.820 --> 00:46:56.260 you see how other people see you and what other 00:46:56.260 --> 00:46:59.579 people appreciate about what you do. And that 00:46:59.579 --> 00:47:01.539 can really open your eyes to possibilities as 00:47:01.539 --> 00:47:05.820 well. That's great advice. So real self -reflection 00:47:05.820 --> 00:47:08.989 and self... awareness building yeah and having 00:47:08.989 --> 00:47:11.869 a plan having a plan and then having a plan and 00:47:11.869 --> 00:47:14.170 following your passion as well I think that's 00:47:14.170 --> 00:47:16.150 what's come over really strongly from you you 00:47:16.150 --> 00:47:20.789 realized I love this and that's fuel isn't it 00:47:20.789 --> 00:47:22.730 yeah that's fuel to get you through those days 00:47:22.730 --> 00:47:24.909 where you feel this is really hard I can't do 00:47:24.909 --> 00:47:27.750 it I'm not sure I'm good enough but I love it 00:47:27.750 --> 00:47:30.710 and I want it and that's the thing that's going 00:47:30.710 --> 00:47:33.650 to get you up the next day fighting it is and 00:47:33.650 --> 00:47:35.730 if you don't know what you love then try lots 00:47:35.730 --> 00:47:39.420 of different things yeah I've I've done so many 00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:41.980 different things it might look straightforward 00:47:41.980 --> 00:47:45.260 my my path to to people who don't know the whole 00:47:45.260 --> 00:47:47.659 story but you know I've worked in restaurants 00:47:47.659 --> 00:47:51.019 I've worked on a cattle station I've worked on 00:47:51.019 --> 00:47:54.619 dive boats I've I've worked in tech I've I've 00:47:54.619 --> 00:47:56.800 done so many different things and I've learned 00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:59.579 something really valuable from each so if you've 00:47:59.579 --> 00:48:02.400 spent many years in one career don't feel as 00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:05.690 though you've that's wasted time if you want 00:48:05.690 --> 00:48:07.630 to go on a move to do something else, because 00:48:07.630 --> 00:48:09.789 there will be so many things that you've learned 00:48:09.789 --> 00:48:11.869 during that time that will be really useful in 00:48:11.869 --> 00:48:13.989 ways that you can't even imagine right now. As 00:48:13.989 --> 00:48:16.570 you can probably tell, I'm a massive fan of the 00:48:16.570 --> 00:48:19.289 work that you do. I'm a big believer in the power 00:48:19.289 --> 00:48:21.849 of coaching from a personal point of view and 00:48:21.849 --> 00:48:24.869 in my professional life. So it's great to hear 00:48:24.869 --> 00:48:27.710 you out there just doing the same kind of thing 00:48:27.710 --> 00:48:29.610 and improving those workplaces. Thank you so 00:48:29.610 --> 00:48:31.750 much for your time. Thank you, Leona. It's been 00:48:31.750 --> 00:48:35.909 great. Next week, we have something a little 00:48:35.909 --> 00:48:38.789 different. Join myself and my wonderful producer, 00:48:38.869 --> 00:48:42.010 Nick, as we debrief what we've learned from all 00:48:42.010 --> 00:48:44.750 the wonderful guests we've spoken to so far. 00:48:44.949 --> 00:48:48.469 And we highlight the key ways of thinking and 00:48:48.469 --> 00:48:51.989 behaving that have enabled them to survive and 00:48:51.989 --> 00:48:54.989 thrive. We'll also let you know what to expect 00:48:54.989 --> 00:48:56.349 from series two.