WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.560 Hiya, I'm psychologist and author Leona Deakin, 00:00:02.580 --> 00:00:05.259 and this is Lead Her Ship Journeys, where we 00:00:05.259 --> 00:00:07.919 delve into the minds of inspirational women to 00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:10.400 find out how they do the things that they do. 00:00:13.289 --> 00:00:16.829 Last week, we heard from Simone Roche, MBE, the 00:00:16.829 --> 00:00:20.129 CEO of We Are Power and founder of the Northern 00:00:20.129 --> 00:00:23.530 Power Women's Awards, about how saying yes to 00:00:23.530 --> 00:00:25.989 every opportunity that came her way in the Royal 00:00:25.989 --> 00:00:29.730 Navy and beyond allowed her to live her dream 00:00:29.730 --> 00:00:36.609 of quite literally lifting other people up. This 00:00:36.609 --> 00:00:39.229 week... on leadership journeys. I guess I haven't 00:00:39.229 --> 00:00:42.170 really spoken much about why I retired because 00:00:42.170 --> 00:00:44.810 I felt like my identity was cricket. And so I 00:00:44.810 --> 00:00:48.789 was like, well, who am I if I'm not playing cricket 00:00:48.789 --> 00:00:50.810 for England? I was basically getting very anxious. 00:00:51.090 --> 00:00:52.710 Anyway, I ended up breaking my thumb playing 00:00:52.710 --> 00:00:56.969 men's cricket. I had a good eight week block 00:00:56.969 --> 00:00:59.469 in the summer with no cricket. I couldn't play. 00:00:59.890 --> 00:01:02.630 And I was really happy. What do you do if you 00:01:02.630 --> 00:01:06.879 have the best job in the world, but... It just 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:18.840 doesn't make you happy. Hi, folks. Today we have 00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:21.560 something a little different, a female sporting 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:24.939 superstar. So I have World Cup winning cricketer 00:01:24.939 --> 00:01:28.159 Holly Colvin joining me today. Now, at age 15, 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:30.859 Holly was drafted to the England team for an 00:01:30.859 --> 00:01:33.260 ashes test against Australia, which is an absolutely 00:01:33.260 --> 00:01:35.540 fascinating story. I'm sure she'll tell us about. 00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:40.489 And then she went on to play five tests. 72 one 00:01:40.489 --> 00:01:43.870 -day internationals and 50 2020 internationals. 00:01:43.870 --> 00:01:46.909 She was a member of the Women's World 2020 World 00:01:46.909 --> 00:01:50.890 Cup winning side in 2009. So this is a woman 00:01:50.890 --> 00:01:54.969 not to play cricket against, I sense. Since retiring 00:01:54.969 --> 00:01:59.629 from cricket in 2013, she has moved into Women's 00:01:59.629 --> 00:02:02.230 Cricket Senior Officer for the ICC out in Dubai, 00:02:02.409 --> 00:02:04.590 lived out there for a number of years and then 00:02:04.590 --> 00:02:07.430 returned to be the Sports Competition Manager 00:02:07.430 --> 00:02:10.189 for cricket. the Commonwealth Games here in Birmingham. 00:02:10.430 --> 00:02:13.349 Today we are meeting her in London because she's 00:02:13.349 --> 00:02:15.530 a major sports event manager for the Greater 00:02:15.530 --> 00:02:19.469 London Authority. So I'm sure everyone's aware 00:02:19.469 --> 00:02:21.729 we're living in a bit of a golden age for women's 00:02:21.729 --> 00:02:25.150 sport. Finally our female cricketers, footballers 00:02:25.150 --> 00:02:27.449 and the like are receiving the attention and 00:02:27.449 --> 00:02:30.389 accolades they deserve but I'm fascinated to 00:02:30.389 --> 00:02:33.229 hear what Holly's journey was like as a female 00:02:33.229 --> 00:02:36.069 moving through sport as well as exploring the 00:02:36.069 --> 00:02:38.830 mindset needed to excel. in that professional 00:02:38.830 --> 00:02:41.250 environment. That feels like a long introduction, 00:02:41.370 --> 00:02:43.650 Holly, but you've done so much. Welcome. Thank 00:02:43.650 --> 00:02:46.250 you. Thanks for having me. It's lovely, lovely 00:02:46.250 --> 00:02:49.409 to meet you. So, I mean, I think we have to start 00:02:49.409 --> 00:02:52.330 with your origin story at age 15, because it's 00:02:52.330 --> 00:02:54.310 such a cool story. It's like something out of 00:02:54.310 --> 00:02:56.949 a movie. So just tell us how you came to be in 00:02:56.949 --> 00:03:00.669 the England team playing against Australia. So 00:03:00.669 --> 00:03:04.310 the test match was at Hove in Sussex, which is 00:03:04.310 --> 00:03:07.879 my home county. During the preparations for the 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:09.419 Test match, the England team were looking for 00:03:09.419 --> 00:03:13.340 some net bowlers. And one of the Australian bowlers 00:03:13.340 --> 00:03:15.000 was a left -arm spinner. So they were looking 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:17.219 for left -arm spinners so they could have some 00:03:17.219 --> 00:03:20.560 practice. So I rock up, you know, a couple of 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.300 days before. Bowled quite well, apparently. The 00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:25.789 day before the Test match got... handed the phone 00:03:25.789 --> 00:03:29.229 by my mum with a very confused face saying oh 00:03:29.229 --> 00:03:31.430 you better take this and I was like oh and the 00:03:31.430 --> 00:03:33.189 head coach was on the phone saying oh we'd like 00:03:33.189 --> 00:03:35.810 you to come down for the next four days um are 00:03:35.810 --> 00:03:38.250 you free I was like yeah sure thinking I'll just 00:03:38.250 --> 00:03:39.969 be running on the drinks or you know getting 00:03:39.969 --> 00:03:41.629 a bit of experience or they want more net bowling 00:03:41.629 --> 00:03:44.090 for batters whilst they wait but no they wanted 00:03:44.090 --> 00:03:48.169 me to play which was quite quite a surreal experience 00:03:48.169 --> 00:03:51.669 and yeah so off I went played in a test match 00:03:51.669 --> 00:03:54.210 at my home ground down at Hoven. Yeah, the rest, 00:03:54.229 --> 00:03:56.650 I guess, is history. And what was that actually 00:03:56.650 --> 00:04:00.150 like at age 15 to just be thrust into that team? 00:04:00.650 --> 00:04:04.090 There was a few dynamics. One was I ended up 00:04:04.090 --> 00:04:06.389 rooming with the girl that I'd, another spinner 00:04:06.389 --> 00:04:08.530 who wasn't playing that I replaced. So there 00:04:08.530 --> 00:04:11.009 was that interesting dynamic there. The captain 00:04:11.009 --> 00:04:13.449 was currently teaching at my school. So it just 00:04:13.449 --> 00:04:16.639 shows you kind of sign of the times. But they 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:19.480 did get quite a bit of media pickups. There were 00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:22.199 quite a few journalists around. I remember being 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:25.420 sort of bodyguarded a little bit by our team 00:04:25.420 --> 00:04:27.779 manager at the time, Charlotte Dickinson, who 00:04:27.779 --> 00:04:31.339 was quite a force of nature. I think actually 00:04:31.339 --> 00:04:32.980 it got a bit of media attention for the whole 00:04:32.980 --> 00:04:35.680 team because it was quite an interesting story. 00:04:36.259 --> 00:04:40.339 I think the biggest thing that was quite striking 00:04:40.339 --> 00:04:43.540 looking back was I had... I had actually no idea 00:04:43.540 --> 00:04:46.759 who the Australian players were. I couldn't have 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:51.279 named a single player. I knew kind of of that, 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:53.459 you know, they had a really scary opening fast 00:04:53.459 --> 00:04:55.560 bowler in Catherine Fitzpatrick and they had 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:58.720 some great batters, but didn't quite understand 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:01.879 like the legendary status of some of these players 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:04.660 who were the best in the world at the time. So 00:05:04.660 --> 00:05:07.819 it kind of worked in my favor because... I really 00:05:07.819 --> 00:05:11.560 had no idea the magnitude of what it was. I kind 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:13.100 of just said, I'm just going to turn up and bowl. 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:15.920 It will be fine. And obviously, you know, the 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:18.860 more media attention they got. So it was kind 00:05:18.860 --> 00:05:21.220 of this surreal bubble that I kind of look back 00:05:21.220 --> 00:05:23.459 on and be like, what a wild time. But an incredible 00:05:23.459 --> 00:05:25.779 experience nonetheless. And one I kind of really 00:05:25.779 --> 00:05:28.920 fondly kind of look back on. Oh, I bet. And it's 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:31.379 that. Like you were saying, you almost had that 00:05:31.379 --> 00:05:35.120 teenage bravado and not enough insight to be 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.199 scared of them. If you'd have walked in there 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:39.720 10 years later, you'd have probably been terrified 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:44.300 by the reputations. of the women you were playing 00:05:44.300 --> 00:05:47.060 against yeah 100 % and I think I think the other 00:05:47.060 --> 00:05:49.319 thing was is that I was playing a lot of boys 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:53.019 cricket so I was playing at my school team and 00:05:53.019 --> 00:05:55.920 a lot of the guys for 14 15 year olds were a 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:57.879 lot bigger and scarier than some of the women 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:00.019 I was bowling against and they'd absolutely clatter 00:06:00.019 --> 00:06:03.300 me for six if ever I bowled a bad ball so I kind 00:06:03.300 --> 00:06:06.279 of had the kind of logical brain of that kind 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:09.550 of behind me looking at the game so Playing kind 00:06:09.550 --> 00:06:11.410 of high level boys cricket really helps in terms 00:06:11.410 --> 00:06:13.750 of the pressure situations as well I was getting 00:06:13.750 --> 00:06:17.449 myself into. Yeah, I bet. And just giving you 00:06:17.449 --> 00:06:20.269 that outlook that was helpful. So we were just 00:06:20.269 --> 00:06:22.350 talking before about how you started in cricket 00:06:22.350 --> 00:06:24.470 and you were saying chasing your big brother. 00:06:24.509 --> 00:06:26.870 And that was actually a bit of a common story 00:06:26.870 --> 00:06:29.769 for other female cricketers that you. played 00:06:29.769 --> 00:06:31.910 with that you were chasing your brothers a little 00:06:31.910 --> 00:06:34.029 bit? Yeah absolutely I think pretty much if you 00:06:34.029 --> 00:06:36.350 went you know along the line of our team pretty 00:06:36.350 --> 00:06:38.230 much all of them had an older brother all of 00:06:38.230 --> 00:06:40.050 them wanted to do something that their brother 00:06:40.050 --> 00:06:44.949 could do and or be better in some senses but 00:06:44.949 --> 00:06:47.250 yeah I was sort of very much the garden net bowler 00:06:47.250 --> 00:06:50.410 and kind of asked my mum where does he disappear 00:06:50.410 --> 00:06:53.589 off to every Sunday morning can I join in and 00:06:54.139 --> 00:06:56.300 The first answer was you're not old enough. And 00:06:56.300 --> 00:06:58.279 then when I became older, my mum didn't have 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:01.120 a reason to say no. So off I went and just joined 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:03.639 the local boys team and kind of learnt cricket 00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:06.100 at the same age that all boys do and didn't really 00:07:06.100 --> 00:07:08.300 realise I was any good because I just thought 00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:10.819 I was an average cricketer, not necessarily a 00:07:10.819 --> 00:07:13.360 female or male cricketer. So, yeah, and then 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:15.620 kind of went through the ranks from there. Because 00:07:15.620 --> 00:07:18.139 I was going to ask, how much of your success 00:07:18.139 --> 00:07:20.920 at 15 was, do you think, down to some natural 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:24.360 talent that you had versus... the experiences 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:28.240 that you'd had playing against the boys and chasing 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:33.120 your brother. Is it possible to determine that? 00:07:33.220 --> 00:07:36.300 Yeah, I think it was kind of a mixture of a couple 00:07:36.300 --> 00:07:40.540 of things. Like when I was, I guess, growing 00:07:40.540 --> 00:07:45.300 up till the age of, I want to say 11, I was always 00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:47.740 an opening batter. I opened the batting for like 00:07:47.740 --> 00:07:50.000 my school team when I was like 12, 13 for the 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:54.050 boys team. And then... basically was at an under 00:07:54.050 --> 00:07:57.509 15 tournament at the age of 11 for Sussex so 00:07:57.509 --> 00:07:59.589 it was a county tournament at Ampleforth which 00:07:59.589 --> 00:08:03.089 is a really old school private boarding school 00:08:03.089 --> 00:08:05.449 up in Yorkshire it was a festival that happened 00:08:05.449 --> 00:08:08.629 every year and I injured my thumb basically I 00:08:08.629 --> 00:08:11.470 think and they were doing workshops around different 00:08:11.470 --> 00:08:13.310 skills there was like a batting one there was 00:08:13.310 --> 00:08:14.829 a fielding one and then there was a spin bowling 00:08:14.829 --> 00:08:17.449 one and I was like well I can't really do batting 00:08:17.449 --> 00:08:19.189 can't do fielding I'll just give spin bowling 00:08:19.189 --> 00:08:22.350 a crack literally turned myself into a spin bowler 00:08:22.350 --> 00:08:24.269 for that tournament and did really well and then 00:08:24.269 --> 00:08:26.310 became a left arm spinner from there and I think 00:08:26.310 --> 00:08:28.310 we were kind of unicorns a little bit especially 00:08:28.310 --> 00:08:30.149 in women's cricket a lot of people were very 00:08:30.149 --> 00:08:34.350 much right -handed and so I kind of had a bit 00:08:34.350 --> 00:08:38.830 of a unique skill that wasn't as I mean there's 00:08:38.830 --> 00:08:40.710 so many women's left arm spinners in England 00:08:40.710 --> 00:08:43.149 now but it was something that was quite sought 00:08:43.149 --> 00:08:45.610 after and yeah kind of luck of the draw I think 00:08:45.610 --> 00:08:48.370 from from getting picked yeah and something you 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:50.740 turned your hand to because you saw a bit of 00:08:50.740 --> 00:08:52.919 an opportunity there maybe to yeah I'm just kind 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:54.779 of waxing and kind of enjoyed it and I was oh 00:08:54.779 --> 00:08:57.539 yeah this is all right so I mean it sounds like 00:08:57.539 --> 00:08:59.299 one of those fairy tale stories the kind of thing 00:08:59.299 --> 00:09:01.779 I imagine in my head every time I try a new sport 00:09:01.779 --> 00:09:04.019 and I think maybe this is the one where someone's 00:09:04.019 --> 00:09:06.279 going to just be walking by and go oh my goodness 00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:09.429 like you're the best lacrosse player we've ever 00:09:09.429 --> 00:09:11.070 seen something like that this has never happened 00:09:11.070 --> 00:09:12.669 to me although you won't be surprised to find 00:09:12.669 --> 00:09:15.809 out but but actually there's a lot of graft going 00:09:15.809 --> 00:09:17.470 on there isn't there because like you say you 00:09:17.470 --> 00:09:19.809 were starting to play quite early age probably 00:09:19.809 --> 00:09:22.610 about six years old that you were playing maybe 00:09:22.610 --> 00:09:24.769 a little bit earlier something like that and 00:09:24.769 --> 00:09:28.309 then as a young girl playing in cricket what 00:09:28.309 --> 00:09:30.409 was that like did you face any resistance from 00:09:30.409 --> 00:09:33.409 the boys or from the clubs to be playing cricket 00:09:33.409 --> 00:09:36.269 or was it quite easy do you know what I actually 00:09:36.269 --> 00:09:39.879 had an incredible experience playing boys cricket 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:43.480 as in they were they just treated me as one of 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:46.399 the lads and that's all I ever wanted I was just 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:48.659 I was another player it really didn't matter 00:09:48.659 --> 00:09:51.559 whether I was a girl or whether you know they 00:09:51.559 --> 00:09:55.519 were lads I think They I've never had any resistance 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:58.820 or anything like that from any of them. And they 00:09:58.820 --> 00:10:01.460 were very welcoming. The only thing I've had 00:10:01.460 --> 00:10:05.960 was and it used to kind of spur me on was if 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:09.269 I did get a wicket. in a boys game you'd hear 00:10:09.269 --> 00:10:12.330 the taunts of their own teammates as the batter 00:10:12.330 --> 00:10:14.350 getting out being like oh you go out to a girl 00:10:14.350 --> 00:10:16.750 and actually I definitely think it worked in 00:10:16.750 --> 00:10:18.970 my favor being a girl because actually there 00:10:18.970 --> 00:10:20.450 was more pressure on the boys because they didn't 00:10:20.450 --> 00:10:22.590 want to get out to me and it was more embarrassing 00:10:22.590 --> 00:10:24.850 that way so I really used it to my advantage 00:10:24.850 --> 00:10:28.490 there was kind of a bit of a news story when 00:10:28.490 --> 00:10:32.009 I guess when I was like 15 14 15 and me and Sarah 00:10:32.009 --> 00:10:34.600 Taylor who's a sort of legendary cricketer of 00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:37.779 my era robin marler who was i think chair of 00:10:37.779 --> 00:10:40.500 the mcc at the time was set was outraged by us 00:10:40.500 --> 00:10:42.220 playing boys cricket and said it was dangerous 00:10:42.220 --> 00:10:44.759 and we shouldn't be playing and Yeah, we thought 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:46.679 it was quite an outdated view. And we were like, 00:10:46.779 --> 00:10:48.919 again, doesn't really matter our gender. If we're 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:52.120 good enough to play, we'll play. And when he 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:54.620 said it was dangerous, who was he trying to protect 00:10:54.620 --> 00:10:57.039 there? Did he think the girls were too vulnerable 00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:59.539 to be playing? Yeah, I think it was around, you 00:10:59.539 --> 00:11:01.759 know, the fast bowlers would have to slow down 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:03.980 for us and stuff like that, which was just ridiculous. 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:08.179 Yeah, that sort of stuff. You didn't want a boy's 00:11:08.179 --> 00:11:10.139 injuring us. I was like, well, you know, a boy 00:11:10.139 --> 00:11:12.580 can injure a boy. It doesn't matter. So I've 00:11:12.580 --> 00:11:15.240 only ever had really positive responses. And 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:17.679 I guess I just let my cricket do the talking 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:20.000 and everyone knew I was good enough to be in 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:23.080 the teams. And yeah, I had a really good time, 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:24.820 I guess. Tell us a bit about that experience. 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:27.159 So you get in the team in the ashes, but then 00:11:27.159 --> 00:11:29.259 it doesn't end there, does it? It goes on and 00:11:29.259 --> 00:11:32.139 you stay in the team and end up. winning the 00:11:32.139 --> 00:11:35.120 World Cup. And I mean, what was that experience 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:40.240 like? Yeah, that was a really mad year, 2009. 00:11:41.340 --> 00:11:43.539 So it was kind of, it was the classic year of 00:11:43.539 --> 00:11:47.240 I took a gap year between school and uni, went 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:50.779 over to Australia for six months to play some 00:11:50.779 --> 00:11:54.039 club cricket out there and absolutely loved it. 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:56.159 We lived in a house where there was four of us 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:57.899 that played for England. We all went over, all 00:11:57.899 --> 00:11:59.659 lived together, all played for different clubs 00:11:59.659 --> 00:12:03.169 across Sydney. We obviously did really well in 00:12:03.169 --> 00:12:05.789 the World Cup, the 50 -over World Cup, and bought 00:12:05.789 --> 00:12:10.110 it home. And I distinctly remember getting back, 00:12:10.250 --> 00:12:12.970 obviously having been away for six months, and 00:12:12.970 --> 00:12:14.889 my mum was like, well, you need a job. So I started 00:12:14.889 --> 00:12:17.710 as a cleaner at my local sports club, literally 00:12:17.710 --> 00:12:19.190 off the back of winning a World Cup. Well done, 00:12:19.250 --> 00:12:23.549 mum. So bring me back on the ground. Exactly. 00:12:23.730 --> 00:12:26.210 Yeah, bar job and cleaning. Yeah, that's exactly 00:12:26.210 --> 00:12:28.830 what I did. And yeah, we went, obviously, and 00:12:28.830 --> 00:12:32.139 that summer had... The T20 World Cup was in England, 00:12:32.179 --> 00:12:35.620 which was amazing. That was a very different 00:12:35.620 --> 00:12:38.200 experience, I think, compared to the 50 -over 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:41.279 World Cup because it was the first time I felt 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:45.259 real eyes were on us because we'd just won the 00:12:45.259 --> 00:12:49.440 World Cup, the 50 -over one. And I'll never, 00:12:49.539 --> 00:12:52.879 ever forget the semi -final that we played at 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:57.899 the Oval against Australia. This is a time where 00:12:57.899 --> 00:12:59.820 we would get, you know, a couple of thousand 00:12:59.820 --> 00:13:04.019 max a game. And it was about half full at the 00:13:04.019 --> 00:13:08.639 Oval, which was the biggest crowd we'd ever been 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:10.860 against. And obviously a lot of all of the games 00:13:10.860 --> 00:13:13.340 were televised by this point. So you felt like 00:13:13.340 --> 00:13:16.029 you had sort of. everyone watching and the atmosphere 00:13:16.029 --> 00:13:18.570 was incredible but we chased down a record total 00:13:18.570 --> 00:13:22.250 of 160 odd I'm really bad with stats so when 00:13:22.250 --> 00:13:23.830 you told me what my stats were earlier I was 00:13:23.830 --> 00:13:27.909 like yeah they sound about right um and just 00:13:27.909 --> 00:13:30.490 the most ridiculous game of cricket I've ever 00:13:30.490 --> 00:13:32.730 played I played absolutely abysmally like the 00:13:32.730 --> 00:13:35.629 the pressure definitely got to me I bowled terribly 00:13:35.629 --> 00:13:38.570 but didn't matter the team won and we went on 00:13:38.570 --> 00:13:41.049 to obviously win the tournament again at a you 00:13:41.049 --> 00:13:44.200 know half at that time half pack lords against 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:47.740 New Zealand in 09. So that felt like that year 00:13:47.740 --> 00:13:50.519 was quite a real step change, I think, in just 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:54.679 we didn't even have big crowds really at our 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:57.399 games and we got a lot more TV coverage and things 00:13:57.399 --> 00:13:59.600 like that. So things were starting to change. 00:13:59.740 --> 00:14:01.799 I think our profiles were starting to change 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:03.799 at that point. It's a wonderful thing to have 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:06.279 been involved in, to be there at the epicentre 00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:10.019 of that all starting and it gaining more gravitas 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:13.500 and more respect. What did you learn, do you 00:14:13.500 --> 00:14:16.360 think, from being in that professional women's 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:23.600 team? Did you gain insights into how to work 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:28.019 together and how to support each other? So other 00:14:28.019 --> 00:14:31.340 than the mechanics of playing the cricket, what 00:14:31.340 --> 00:14:33.679 else was going on that made that team successful, 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.899 do you think? So it was a really interesting 00:14:36.899 --> 00:14:39.679 time because you say professional and we weren't. 00:14:40.169 --> 00:14:43.450 fully professional okay so we were no no no no 00:14:43.450 --> 00:14:45.730 but we were professional in a sense of the way 00:14:45.730 --> 00:14:47.750 we conducted ourselves like the training the 00:14:47.750 --> 00:14:51.769 dedication but we were all like I was obviously 00:14:51.769 --> 00:14:54.029 still a student and half of us were still students 00:14:54.029 --> 00:14:58.289 um you know some were doing part -time jobs some 00:14:58.289 --> 00:15:02.139 were coaches um And we were just doing it really 00:15:02.139 --> 00:15:05.919 for the love. And I think it was a really interesting 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:08.539 time because we were all spread around. I mean, 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:10.259 there was a real contingent in Loughborough, 00:15:10.340 --> 00:15:12.720 to be fair. But we were all spread around the 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:16.620 country and trusted to do our own programs. So 00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:19.100 we would only meet as an England team maybe once 00:15:19.100 --> 00:15:21.539 every couple of months in camps over a weekend. 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:24.860 But the majority of our training would have been 00:15:24.860 --> 00:15:27.519 done with our own one -to -one coaches or at 00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:31.299 our own universities. and we were and you know 00:15:31.299 --> 00:15:32.940 our strength and conditioning program nutrition 00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:39.259 was all up to us to do um so it did one it taught 00:15:39.259 --> 00:15:41.539 you to kind of trust each other that you were 00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:44.740 everyone was putting in the work and no one was 00:15:44.740 --> 00:15:48.240 kind of leaving the team behind And you were 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:50.139 trusted to kind of be independent, find your 00:15:50.139 --> 00:15:53.179 own solutions, like find your own like gyms. 00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:56.059 And I was when, by the time I kind of, this is 00:15:56.059 --> 00:15:58.120 kind of fast forwarding a little bit, but towards 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.620 the back end, 2012, 2013, I was working full 00:16:00.620 --> 00:16:03.120 time for a charity in London, Lord's Tavernas. 00:16:03.460 --> 00:16:06.659 And I would be commuting into the Oval at seven 00:16:06.659 --> 00:16:10.179 in the morning, having my net, then getting into 00:16:10.179 --> 00:16:13.139 work at about half nine, still in my sweaty kit, 00:16:13.259 --> 00:16:16.460 doing a full half day. of work then at lunchtime 00:16:16.460 --> 00:16:19.120 having my shower and then kind of commuting with 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:22.220 all my cricket kit back back home again but like 00:16:22.220 --> 00:16:25.220 that was kind of the reality that it was so I 00:16:25.220 --> 00:16:28.940 think it certainly taught me around how to sort 00:16:28.940 --> 00:16:31.159 of make sure you fit stuff in how to kind of 00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:33.480 put in the hard work to trust trust your team 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:36.399 are doing the same and then kind of made those 00:16:37.509 --> 00:16:39.769 moments a lot sweeter I think when you get to 00:16:39.769 --> 00:16:41.870 an end of a tour and even do you know what even 00:16:41.870 --> 00:16:43.990 if you've lost like you still have a great celebration 00:16:43.990 --> 00:16:46.210 you still all come together you still shake the 00:16:46.210 --> 00:16:47.690 hand of the opposition and have a really good 00:16:47.690 --> 00:16:49.929 time and but it was always at the end of tour 00:16:49.929 --> 00:16:53.450 because you'd work so hard you'd sacrifice quite 00:16:53.450 --> 00:16:57.049 a lot during those winter months to then mark 00:16:57.049 --> 00:16:58.450 it up during the middle of a tour because you 00:16:58.450 --> 00:17:00.149 wanted a bit of a night out, it wasn't worth 00:17:00.149 --> 00:17:01.929 it. It was like, actually, that's what the end 00:17:01.929 --> 00:17:04.170 is for or when there was a decent break. There's 00:17:04.170 --> 00:17:07.589 a real discipline and dedication thing going 00:17:07.589 --> 00:17:09.170 on there, isn't there? Like you say, you're all 00:17:09.170 --> 00:17:12.109 being trusted to be dedicated and to be disciplined 00:17:12.109 --> 00:17:17.049 and to do the work. And so in your view, why 00:17:17.049 --> 00:17:22.369 has this been the golden era really for women's 00:17:22.369 --> 00:17:25.170 sport and the fact that... You know, I'm 50 odd 00:17:25.170 --> 00:17:28.509 now. And I remember, you know, back in my youth, 00:17:28.549 --> 00:17:31.369 the idea that you might want to play women's 00:17:31.369 --> 00:17:34.569 cricket or football or rugby. You know, maybe 00:17:34.569 --> 00:17:36.910 when you went to university, there might be a 00:17:36.910 --> 00:17:38.890 team there. You could play around with it for 00:17:38.890 --> 00:17:42.230 a couple of years. And that was it, really. And 00:17:42.230 --> 00:17:43.809 then everything seems to have changed around 00:17:43.809 --> 00:17:46.069 the time you were getting involved in it. So 00:17:46.069 --> 00:17:48.130 what was changing that? Is it the investment? 00:17:48.289 --> 00:17:51.410 Is it public interest? Is it the quality of the 00:17:51.410 --> 00:17:54.799 sports, women? I think it's a mixture of everything. 00:17:56.619 --> 00:18:00.039 I'd say I feel like the world woke up that 50 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:04.059 % of the population is female, right? So commercially, 00:18:04.339 --> 00:18:09.059 you've got a product that you can sell to 50 00:18:09.059 --> 00:18:13.140 % of your population. And you all know that participants 00:18:13.140 --> 00:18:17.180 of the game make the best fans. If you played 00:18:17.180 --> 00:18:19.579 a sport, you are much more likely to be emotionally 00:18:19.579 --> 00:18:22.859 attached to that, to attend, to buy merchandise, 00:18:23.059 --> 00:18:26.819 to tune in. If you've played that sport, like 00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:31.059 that is just a fact, really. So I think there 00:18:31.059 --> 00:18:33.339 was kind of this swell of like, well, we need 00:18:33.339 --> 00:18:36.220 to be more inclusive and we need to engage with 00:18:36.220 --> 00:18:39.680 women in our sport. And therefore it does need 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.299 that investment. And it's kind of where do you 00:18:42.299 --> 00:18:43.980 invest? You invest in the bottom or do you invest 00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:48.450 in the top? And I think. more successful teams 00:18:48.450 --> 00:18:50.750 kind of get more publicity and actually in this 00:18:50.750 --> 00:18:53.630 country if you think about for the last 10 years 00:18:53.630 --> 00:18:56.890 particularly team sport you look at kind of the 00:18:56.890 --> 00:19:00.509 traditional men's sports in football in cricket 00:19:00.509 --> 00:19:04.529 in rugby union have had pretty good success in 00:19:04.529 --> 00:19:06.910 those in those team sports in the last 10 years 00:19:06.910 --> 00:19:09.589 and that breeds interest that breeds inspiration 00:19:09.589 --> 00:19:14.130 that then gets young girls going, oh, I could 00:19:14.130 --> 00:19:16.369 play that, and then brings this groundswell of 00:19:16.369 --> 00:19:20.150 interest around building clubs and then making 00:19:20.150 --> 00:19:22.730 more facilities accessible to them and stuff 00:19:22.730 --> 00:19:24.750 like that. But like you say, the advantage of 00:19:24.750 --> 00:19:28.450 it is opening the minds of girls about what they 00:19:28.450 --> 00:19:31.950 are capable of and what they can do, and that 00:19:31.950 --> 00:19:35.289 actually when they have that time and that discipline 00:19:35.289 --> 00:19:39.220 and they do practise these sports... well they're 00:19:39.220 --> 00:19:42.579 just able to perform yeah in a parallel way to 00:19:42.579 --> 00:19:45.799 the to the men really so I mean you've had this 00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:49.420 great success and such a wonderful thing to happen 00:19:49.420 --> 00:19:52.759 to you but at such a young age how old were you 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:57.059 when you won the world cup uh 19 so still in 00:19:57.059 --> 00:19:59.960 your teens yeah and you've just hit a pinnacle 00:19:59.960 --> 00:20:03.559 yeah of something amazing that potentially that 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:09.839 might not happen again what's that like I guess 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:15.420 kind of I was at the time at 19, I was kind of 00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:17.779 like, right, OK, well, we've just won a World 00:20:17.779 --> 00:20:22.000 Cup. When's the next one? But I just was kind 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:24.700 of classic case. And this is really cliche, but 00:20:24.700 --> 00:20:26.940 kind of like taking each day as it comes. The 00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:29.960 one thing I did know and the one thing that made 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.240 me very different to quite a lot of the players 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:35.970 at the time. cricket wasn't my life. It kind 00:20:35.970 --> 00:20:39.690 of was something that I fell into by accident, 00:20:39.789 --> 00:20:44.029 quite literally from my story. But I always knew 00:20:44.029 --> 00:20:46.910 I wanted to get a degree. I always knew I needed 00:20:46.910 --> 00:20:52.529 something else that wasn't cricket. And I stupidly 00:20:52.529 --> 00:20:56.250 did a... biology and chemistry degree which has 00:20:56.250 --> 00:20:59.430 got the most hours with all the labs required 00:20:59.430 --> 00:21:02.230 which made it really challenging when I was off 00:21:02.230 --> 00:21:05.369 trying to play cricket but a lot of the girls 00:21:05.369 --> 00:21:08.410 that went again different girls went to Loughborough 00:21:08.410 --> 00:21:11.769 some of them deferred like or did broke up their 00:21:11.769 --> 00:21:14.049 degree into multiple years and ended up going 00:21:14.049 --> 00:21:17.170 to uni for about five years whereas I was like 00:21:17.170 --> 00:21:19.849 nope I'm going to get my degree in three years 00:21:19.849 --> 00:21:24.569 and I ended up missing think it was one tour 00:21:24.569 --> 00:21:28.230 um think to New Zealand because I was like no 00:21:28.230 --> 00:21:31.609 I need to actually I'm going to stay it's my 00:21:31.609 --> 00:21:35.430 third year at university I can't miss five weeks 00:21:35.430 --> 00:21:37.710 of a semester of university because it will just 00:21:37.710 --> 00:21:40.509 screw me for for my exams and I want to get a 00:21:40.509 --> 00:21:44.950 good degree so I had no idea what I wanted to 00:21:44.950 --> 00:21:47.329 do but I just knew that I needed something else 00:21:47.329 --> 00:21:51.130 that was a fail safe and I also knew I didn't 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:54.059 want to spend 100 % of my time in cricket because 00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:57.319 I think I would have gone nuts. Why is that? 00:21:57.740 --> 00:22:00.079 Again, I think it just was something that happened 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.500 to me and wasn't like my full passion, which 00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:05.019 is probably something that is probably strange 00:22:05.019 --> 00:22:08.259 to hear considering I played for England. But 00:22:08.259 --> 00:22:10.440 good that you know that because you could probably 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.140 get intoxicated by the fact that you were playing 00:22:13.140 --> 00:22:15.759 at such a high level and think this must be my 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:18.859 purpose. But you actually had a sense that I 00:22:18.859 --> 00:22:22.269 want something more. Yeah, and it's actually, 00:22:22.410 --> 00:22:26.329 I guess I haven't really spoken much about, at 00:22:26.329 --> 00:22:29.170 all really, publicly about why I retired so young 00:22:29.170 --> 00:22:32.869 at 23. I didn't retire, I probably could have 00:22:32.869 --> 00:22:34.990 retired earlier, but I didn't because I felt 00:22:34.990 --> 00:22:37.529 like my identity was cricket. And so I was like, 00:22:37.650 --> 00:22:41.269 well, who am I if I'm not playing cricket for 00:22:41.269 --> 00:22:43.109 England? Yeah, that's what I was kind of wondering. 00:22:43.150 --> 00:22:46.069 Yeah, that was going on. Okay, that makes sense. 00:22:46.289 --> 00:22:49.980 And in the end, I just, basically the... whole 00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:52.920 thing that came out was in 20 in the summer of 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:59.880 2013 I went back to play men's club cricket because 00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:03.759 I was I was basically getting very anxious long 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:06.579 story short right and I was like right what I 00:23:06.579 --> 00:23:08.700 need to do is I need to go and play international 00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:13.359 standard women's cricket every week to normalize 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:16.839 the standard that I was playing so I thought 00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:19.049 the best thing to do would play men's Premier 00:23:19.049 --> 00:23:21.890 League club cricket. Anyway, I ended up breaking 00:23:21.890 --> 00:23:24.569 my thumb playing men's cricket because one of 00:23:24.569 --> 00:23:27.349 the guys absolutely belted it back at me. It 00:23:27.349 --> 00:23:29.710 wasn't a catch. It was along the floor. I have 00:23:29.710 --> 00:23:33.470 to stipulate that. Yeah, I broke my thumb. So 00:23:33.470 --> 00:23:37.009 I ended up for the first time since I think probably 00:23:37.009 --> 00:23:42.690 I was seven, I had a good eight -week block in 00:23:42.690 --> 00:23:44.769 the summer with no cricket. I couldn't play. 00:23:45.210 --> 00:23:48.160 And I was really happy. and I didn't really want 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:49.720 to come back and it was an ashes summer that 00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:53.480 2013 summer and I had I came back just in time 00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:55.180 for the start of the ashes but having not really 00:23:55.180 --> 00:23:57.299 played yeah just had a horrible I had a horrible 00:23:57.299 --> 00:24:00.500 it shows that your mindset had changed hadn't 00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:03.940 it yeah uh yeah I had yeah I had a horrible time 00:24:03.940 --> 00:24:06.619 didn't enjoy it um then there was a tour to the 00:24:06.619 --> 00:24:10.200 West Indies and the end of 2013, and my family 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:12.819 decided to book to come and watch before I'd 00:24:12.819 --> 00:24:14.599 even decided. I was like, okay, well, I have 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:16.279 to play that tour then if my family have booked 00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:19.240 their tickets. And then after that, I was like, 00:24:19.339 --> 00:24:22.420 no, I'm out. I need, I need to, I actually was, 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.519 I didn't retire. I took some time out just to 00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:27.940 be like, I'm not playing cricket. To get your 00:24:27.940 --> 00:24:30.740 head straight and feel right. So the anxiety 00:24:30.740 --> 00:24:32.640 that you were getting, was that all to do with 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.359 the pressure? Yeah, you probably see it quite 00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:37.859 a lot now because people speak about it a bit. 00:24:37.900 --> 00:24:40.640 At the time, I didn't. I just didn't talk about 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:47.500 it at all. Yeah, just hated it. I don't really 00:24:47.500 --> 00:24:53.559 want to get too much into it, but I guess I just, 00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:56.039 yeah, felt that there was a lot more to life 00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:00.420 than cricket, than playing anymore. And, yeah, 00:25:00.539 --> 00:25:06.220 took a full year off. And then in 2015, actually, 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:09.960 in the summer, I decided to go back to playing 00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:13.579 club and county cricket. And I remember calling 00:25:13.579 --> 00:25:15.380 up the coach and I said, look, I'm coming back 00:25:15.380 --> 00:25:18.059 to play some county cricket. I don't want to 00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:20.819 get selected for England. I said, I'm not playing 00:25:20.819 --> 00:25:23.240 to get selected. I'm playing because I want to 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:27.599 enjoy the sport again. And actually played really 00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:29.140 well that summer, obviously, because there was 00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:31.599 no pressure. And then, yeah, applied for the 00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:35.000 job at the ICC in back end in summer of 2015, 00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:38.319 got offered the job and pretty much effectively 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:40.200 went, well, can't really play for England if 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:42.740 I'm working for the ICC. So that was your escape 00:25:42.740 --> 00:25:45.140 route. That was my, well, I think that's my sign. 00:25:45.259 --> 00:25:51.559 So, yeah, stopped. I think it's such a helpful 00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:55.700 experience. for other people to hear because 00:25:55.700 --> 00:25:58.039 I think I've certainly worked with lots of people 00:25:58.039 --> 00:26:02.519 over my career who the idea of it's like a self 00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:06.039 -limiting belief my life is in cricket my skills 00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:09.240 are in cricket my identity is in cricket so all 00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:11.960 I can do is cricket if I stop doing cricket then 00:26:12.750 --> 00:26:15.950 What will the world think? And so it's really 00:26:15.950 --> 00:26:19.369 tempting to not listen to your emotion and to 00:26:19.369 --> 00:26:21.390 your intuition and to keep pushing yourself and 00:26:21.390 --> 00:26:23.490 pushing yourself and pushing yourself. When actually 00:26:23.490 --> 00:26:26.349 it's like you had a great experience. You have 00:26:26.349 --> 00:26:29.910 a wonderful story. You know, it's something that 00:26:29.910 --> 00:26:33.230 people might dream of doing and you did it. You 00:26:33.230 --> 00:26:35.789 don't have to keep doing it. It's your life. 00:26:36.460 --> 00:26:39.640 You know, if it's not right for you, if you feel 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:42.119 you've got more to give or your passion's elsewhere, 00:26:42.500 --> 00:26:46.579 then go do something else. I think particularly 00:26:46.579 --> 00:26:49.480 for younger women who might, you know, they've 00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:51.299 done a degree in law and then they get to be 00:26:51.299 --> 00:26:52.980 a solicitor and they hate it. What, are they 00:26:52.980 --> 00:26:56.019 going to spend the next 40 years being a solicitor 00:26:56.019 --> 00:26:57.660 or are they going to go to catering college and 00:26:57.660 --> 00:26:59.240 become the chef they really want to be? You know, 00:26:59.259 --> 00:27:03.880 like that. kind of oh I think it's really helpful 00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:06.779 for people to hear especially at your level to 00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:08.980 have experienced that where people might look 00:27:08.980 --> 00:27:11.759 at it from afar and just think gosh that just 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:15.380 must be wonderful all the time yeah and I think 00:27:15.380 --> 00:27:18.079 I think a lot of me felt really guilty because 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:21.440 I felt guilty for not you know people would kill 00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:23.000 to be in my position to be playing international 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:27.319 sport and particularly cricket and I felt really 00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:31.869 guilty for not wanting it I guess That was kind 00:27:31.869 --> 00:27:34.650 of the hard bit. And also, I guess, some people 00:27:34.650 --> 00:27:38.490 not understanding it either as to be like, you 00:27:38.490 --> 00:27:40.170 know, why would you not want to play for England? 00:27:40.329 --> 00:27:44.190 You fly around the world. You play in the Caribbean. 00:27:44.269 --> 00:27:47.589 It's wonderful. And I was like, it isn't quite. 00:27:47.690 --> 00:27:53.109 But I don't regret or look badly on my cricket 00:27:53.109 --> 00:27:56.329 experience. It's taught me a lot. And I've learned 00:27:56.329 --> 00:27:59.029 so much from it. taken me into the career I've 00:27:59.029 --> 00:28:01.109 got today I would not be sitting here in front 00:28:01.109 --> 00:28:04.430 of you if I didn't play cricket at that level 00:28:04.430 --> 00:28:07.109 and had all of those experiences before we move 00:28:07.109 --> 00:28:08.549 on to what you're doing now and how different 00:28:08.549 --> 00:28:10.569 that is and yeah emotionally how different as 00:28:10.569 --> 00:28:12.109 well as you know in terms of what you're doing 00:28:12.109 --> 00:28:14.789 what did you learn so you said I learned a lot 00:28:14.789 --> 00:28:17.089 about myself so what did you learn from that 00:28:17.089 --> 00:28:18.910 experience you think if you could go back and 00:28:18.910 --> 00:28:21.910 almost give your younger self a few tidbits of 00:28:21.910 --> 00:28:25.750 information what would you be saying to her oh 00:28:28.750 --> 00:28:33.450 I think I just learned now, like my emotional 00:28:33.450 --> 00:28:36.710 intelligence about myself, certainly emotional 00:28:36.710 --> 00:28:38.930 intelligence is also working on about other people, 00:28:38.990 --> 00:28:42.789 but it's certainly so much better. Like I understand 00:28:42.789 --> 00:28:45.950 like when I now need to ask for help and be, 00:28:46.109 --> 00:28:49.910 try and be a lot more open about how I'm feeling 00:28:49.910 --> 00:28:53.950 because it's just, it got to a stage where it 00:28:53.950 --> 00:28:57.900 just wasn't healthy. with with where I was at 00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:02.920 it taught me I guess that I can be quite resilient 00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:05.420 because there was a lot of stuff that you know 00:29:05.420 --> 00:29:08.059 I was going through and I came out the other 00:29:08.059 --> 00:29:12.599 side and I'm okay you survived yeah exactly I 00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:16.119 always go back and one thing I do wish like when 00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:19.460 I was kind of on the verge of coming back in 00:29:19.460 --> 00:29:21.680 sort of 2014 I was like I really wish I really 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:25.500 loved it like but I just didn't and it's sometimes 00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:28.700 I've had the same thing with friends actually 00:29:28.700 --> 00:29:33.720 where your best friends at university or school 00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.579 and then you try and force yourself to be like 00:29:37.579 --> 00:29:39.420 you're like oh let's go for dinner let's catch 00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:42.400 up and you find that it's really forced and you 00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:44.259 don't want to let that friend meant something 00:29:44.259 --> 00:29:48.759 to you for a long time And you try and then continue 00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:50.500 to force the friendship and actually learning 00:29:50.500 --> 00:29:54.099 when to let go, I think is also been a really 00:29:54.099 --> 00:29:57.380 important thing. And it's it's not giving up, 00:29:57.380 --> 00:29:59.319 which I think is what at the time I thought it 00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:02.640 was. It was actually going, you know, accepting 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:05.200 that something isn't for you. And there is so 00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:07.940 many greater opportunities. Yes. Down door three. 00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:11.119 So it's giving yourself permission almost to 00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:14.500 say that was great. It had its challenges. Been 00:30:14.500 --> 00:30:16.660 there, done that. I'm going to move on now. Yeah. 00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:20.039 And it sounds like you've had to learn or maybe 00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:22.579 you're continuing to learn to forgive yourself 00:30:22.579 --> 00:30:26.039 for the fact that you didn't want to do it. Yeah. 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:29.019 For the whole of your career. Yeah. And actually 00:30:29.019 --> 00:30:31.599 that's okay. Yeah. And it's really funny because 00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:34.799 every time I was at an international competition 00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:38.779 with my ICC job hat on, putting on the events. 00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:41.539 The first question I'd be around the boundary 00:30:41.539 --> 00:30:43.220 and the first question I'd get is, oh, do you 00:30:43.220 --> 00:30:46.339 miss it? And I'd be like, no, like straight out 00:30:46.339 --> 00:30:48.880 the bat. They'd be like, really? I'm like, no, 00:30:49.059 --> 00:30:53.339 absolutely not. I said, I love being in this 00:30:53.339 --> 00:30:57.420 seat where I can go. You don't really understand 00:30:57.420 --> 00:31:00.559 the amount of work that's gone on to put, you 00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:03.839 know, this boundary right round and all of the 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:06.440 things in place for you to have like this great 00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:08.460 competition. I got so much more satisfaction. 00:31:09.099 --> 00:31:11.619 pride actually out of some of the stuff i did 00:31:11.619 --> 00:31:16.180 in that time and those achievements than i ever 00:31:16.180 --> 00:31:19.440 did playing and that's that perception isn't 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:21.819 it that people might have of something from afar 00:31:21.819 --> 00:31:25.279 like it must be amazing to be you know in like 00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:29.970 sort of world cup winning cricket sides or it 00:31:29.970 --> 00:31:33.130 must be amazing to be an entrepreneur that set 00:31:33.130 --> 00:31:36.269 up your own business or, you know, it must be 00:31:36.269 --> 00:31:38.930 amazing to be a creative artist that's well regarded 00:31:38.930 --> 00:31:40.829 and has won lots of awards. But you're like, 00:31:40.910 --> 00:31:42.529 oh, but what's the reality for those people? 00:31:42.650 --> 00:31:44.789 You know, like you say in cricket, the pressure, 00:31:44.849 --> 00:31:48.650 the anxiety, the emotion it was creating in you 00:31:48.650 --> 00:31:51.829 wasn't nice. That entrepreneur could be just 00:31:51.829 --> 00:31:55.210 working. all hours God sends and never seeing 00:31:55.210 --> 00:31:57.410 their family because that's what it takes to 00:31:57.410 --> 00:32:00.390 make it. The artist might be revered, but doesn't 00:32:00.390 --> 00:32:02.349 earn any money. And so he's really struggling. 00:32:02.450 --> 00:32:06.089 And so we can look at these things if too simply 00:32:06.089 --> 00:32:09.470 and just think that looks ace. But the reality, 00:32:09.609 --> 00:32:12.769 the lived reality can be very different. So tell 00:32:12.769 --> 00:32:14.589 us about now, because you briefly just talked 00:32:14.589 --> 00:32:16.029 about what you're doing now and your face lit 00:32:16.029 --> 00:32:18.009 up and you just looked really happy, which is 00:32:18.009 --> 00:32:20.329 really nice. So what are you doing now? And why 00:32:20.329 --> 00:32:25.440 is this more you? effectively, I moved to the 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.039 ICC into sort of a women's cricket officer role. 00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:32.779 And it was the classic role of we need someone 00:32:32.779 --> 00:32:35.299 to have women's cricket in their title and everything 00:32:35.299 --> 00:32:38.839 women's cricket will go past your desk. And it 00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:40.980 was kind of my job to bug everyone else around 00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:43.220 the organisation to be like, remember, there's 00:32:43.220 --> 00:32:45.700 women's cricket. I got the most wonderful five 00:32:45.700 --> 00:32:50.420 year experience, which was so varied across a 00:32:50.420 --> 00:32:53.509 most ridiculous range of projects. In my third 00:32:53.509 --> 00:32:57.490 day flying to Thailand to put on a qualifier 00:32:57.490 --> 00:33:01.410 event. But the organizer then had to leave four 00:33:01.410 --> 00:33:03.410 days in because she had to fly to Bangladesh 00:33:03.410 --> 00:33:05.470 because there was another tournament that needed 00:33:05.470 --> 00:33:08.190 her urgent attention, leaving me and one other 00:33:08.190 --> 00:33:10.250 to run the tournament. And I was like, I'm three 00:33:10.250 --> 00:33:13.069 days into the job, but this is wonderful. So 00:33:13.069 --> 00:33:15.970 then kind of being put into going to India in 00:33:15.970 --> 00:33:19.349 2016. So this was six months later. You're a 00:33:19.349 --> 00:33:23.250 venue manager. It was the joint men's and women's 00:33:23.250 --> 00:33:26.589 T20 World Cup. And you're in charge of six teams. 00:33:26.710 --> 00:33:29.089 They're going to be staying in Chennai. And you're 00:33:29.089 --> 00:33:30.930 going to manage the stadium. And I was like, 00:33:31.049 --> 00:33:34.309 OK, cool. And I've got some amazing stories from 00:33:34.309 --> 00:33:38.490 that trip around. Just classic crazy India of 00:33:38.490 --> 00:33:41.390 things happening. And me being a 26 -year -old 00:33:41.390 --> 00:33:45.529 white female in that world trying to manage. 00:33:46.089 --> 00:33:49.170 Just ridiculous circumstances. I've got many 00:33:49.170 --> 00:33:53.089 examples. But you were loving it. Oh, I loved 00:33:53.089 --> 00:33:56.170 it. You can see that and hear it. Yeah. So was 00:33:56.170 --> 00:33:58.809 there something about the challenge of that chaos 00:33:58.809 --> 00:34:02.250 or the variety that you just were like, oh, yeah. 00:34:02.410 --> 00:34:05.049 I think it's also just the empowerment you feel 00:34:05.049 --> 00:34:10.050 around. There are so many random challenges from. 00:34:10.969 --> 00:34:13.750 From the Pakistan, it was Afghanistan head coach, 00:34:13.789 --> 00:34:16.730 he was Pakistani, very, very famous cricketer. 00:34:16.769 --> 00:34:19.150 He had the wrong visa, so couldn't actually access 00:34:19.150 --> 00:34:21.750 the venue. And it was me telling him, sorry, 00:34:21.949 --> 00:34:25.949 I can't do anything. And he was yelling at me 00:34:25.949 --> 00:34:28.829 and I'm like, okay, that's great. Thinking this 00:34:28.829 --> 00:34:31.849 is interesting to a birthday party the day before. 00:34:32.510 --> 00:34:34.250 We had a warm -up game, a men's warm -up game 00:34:34.250 --> 00:34:36.050 at one of the stadiums. And all of a sudden, 00:34:36.070 --> 00:34:38.050 these flowers started appearing in the morning 00:34:38.050 --> 00:34:40.510 and then a red carpet. And I was like, what's 00:34:40.510 --> 00:34:41.550 going on? They're like, oh, yeah, we've got a 00:34:41.550 --> 00:34:43.650 birthday party tonight. And I was like, sorry, 00:34:43.789 --> 00:34:46.369 this venue's the ICC's exclusively? Like, what? 00:34:46.650 --> 00:34:49.050 They're like, don't worry, madame, we'll be gone. 00:34:49.130 --> 00:34:51.449 But, you know, in the morning, we'll be tidied 00:34:51.449 --> 00:34:52.809 up. Get there in the morning, it's all still 00:34:52.809 --> 00:34:57.079 there. And you just kind of like rally. I don't 00:34:57.079 --> 00:34:59.400 know, the truck leaves all the stuff and the 00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:02.920 bus for the players, coaches pulls in and just 00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:05.599 there was all sorts of stuff going on. And I 00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:09.019 think the adrenaline of an event where you're 00:35:09.019 --> 00:35:13.099 just constantly going and supporting and answering, 00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:16.119 you know, to all the different team demands and 00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:19.980 the venue and and solving problems. And I think 00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:23.719 you're also seeing an end product. So at the 00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:26.139 end of it all. You could see all of these games 00:35:26.139 --> 00:35:27.800 of cricket, these incredible games of cricket 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:29.900 were being put on because of you. And also I 00:35:29.900 --> 00:35:33.219 do really like puzzles. Like I genuinely have 00:35:33.219 --> 00:35:37.679 puzzle books in my spare time. And I like problem 00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:40.219 solving. And I think you never get them all right. 00:35:40.420 --> 00:35:42.719 No way. But you certainly learn from all the 00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:45.559 ones you do and the processes. And that to me 00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:48.579 is... way more satisfying and going oh yeah i 00:35:48.579 --> 00:35:50.840 you know that that happened because of me that's 00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:53.699 that's that's nice i did that so you were feeling 00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:56.599 like you were having real impact perhaps i mean 00:35:56.599 --> 00:35:58.739 there's still a lot of that dedication going 00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:02.219 on and discipline and turning up and dealing 00:36:02.219 --> 00:36:05.139 with the the crazy things that are happening 00:36:05.139 --> 00:36:10.340 the birthday parties and things but you are just 00:36:10.340 --> 00:36:13.500 enjoying intrinsically enjoying that experience 00:36:13.500 --> 00:36:17.380 so much more So you'd left cricket feeling a 00:36:17.380 --> 00:36:19.420 bit like, oh, you know, what are people going 00:36:19.420 --> 00:36:22.239 to think of me? And I've let myself down maybe 00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.079 a bit from what you were saying. How long into 00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:28.179 the new job did you start to feel really good? 00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:31.440 I think just things just continuously got better, 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:33.739 like built and built because the profile and 00:36:33.739 --> 00:36:37.190 the scale of events that I was doing was. going 00:36:37.190 --> 00:36:39.289 up and up. I started in a, you know, I said three 00:36:39.289 --> 00:36:41.730 days into the job, I was in Thailand for an eight 00:36:41.730 --> 00:36:44.530 team women's qualifier, you know, no crowd, no 00:36:44.530 --> 00:36:48.019 nothing. It was just. putting it on to kind of 00:36:48.019 --> 00:36:50.659 the madness in India to then the following year 00:36:50.659 --> 00:36:54.900 I ran from scratch a women's world cup the women's 00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:56.840 world cup in 2017 that happened in England I 00:36:56.840 --> 00:36:58.860 ran the qualifier in Sri Lanka and we were like 00:36:58.860 --> 00:37:00.880 yeah we've got no budget we've got no format 00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:03.360 we've got no venue or host can you just sort 00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:07.840 of go off and sort that please so so off I went 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.900 and then a project that had nothing to do with 00:37:10.900 --> 00:37:12.940 women's cricket but no one put their hand up 00:37:12.940 --> 00:37:17.050 to do and it was ginormous, was, and this is 00:37:17.050 --> 00:37:18.750 going to sound really technical, so I really 00:37:18.750 --> 00:37:20.690 apologise to anyone that doesn't know cricket, 00:37:20.909 --> 00:37:23.210 but cricket has this thing where it's called 00:37:23.210 --> 00:37:27.070 official status, where you can play an official 00:37:27.070 --> 00:37:30.030 international match at this level. So, you know, 00:37:30.070 --> 00:37:33.469 think test match cricket. Only certain countries 00:37:33.469 --> 00:37:35.610 can actually play a test match because they have 00:37:35.610 --> 00:37:38.190 a thing called test status. I see, yeah. Same 00:37:38.190 --> 00:37:40.510 with one -day international cricket. They decided 00:37:40.510 --> 00:37:43.980 to go basically to... make t20 international 00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:48.219 status open to all 105 members they made this 00:37:48.219 --> 00:37:50.739 decision at sort of a board level that that's 00:37:50.739 --> 00:37:53.739 what they wanted to do but they didn't 15 did 00:37:53.739 --> 00:37:55.400 you say it was yeah but they didn't actually 00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:57.599 think how on earth they were gonna implement 00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:00.519 it because there were quite strict rules around 00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:02.599 the size of ground you can have that you had 00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:05.219 to play on grass that you had to have certain 00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:08.750 levels of umpiring that you had to have a validated 00:38:08.750 --> 00:38:12.150 scoring system. I'm sensing a puzzle growing 00:38:12.150 --> 00:38:15.190 here. Yeah, exactly. What they didn't want was 00:38:15.190 --> 00:38:17.929 to devalue international cricket, but they also 00:38:17.929 --> 00:38:20.090 wanted to make it accessible. And you were saying 00:38:20.090 --> 00:38:22.309 nobody wanted to do it. I'm sensing you volunteered 00:38:22.309 --> 00:38:24.789 for this. Yeah, I did, yes. Yeah, I volunteered. 00:38:25.710 --> 00:38:28.429 Not over what period of time? Was this just over 00:38:28.429 --> 00:38:30.909 one year or over a few years? No, no, no. We 00:38:30.909 --> 00:38:33.329 had about, I want to say, I don't know, six months 00:38:33.329 --> 00:38:37.210 to 12 months. Oh, wow. Yeah, to do it all. So 00:38:37.210 --> 00:38:40.329 you did it? in that yeah yeah yeah we yeah we 00:38:40.329 --> 00:38:41.650 didn't really have a choice we were just like 00:38:41.650 --> 00:38:43.750 right and the best actually one of the best things 00:38:43.750 --> 00:38:46.030 was is i had to present how we were going to 00:38:46.030 --> 00:38:49.630 implement this at our annual conference so it's 00:38:49.630 --> 00:38:52.309 all 105 members are present obviously there's 00:38:52.309 --> 00:38:54.829 you know 300 400 people in this room and i had 00:38:54.829 --> 00:38:58.059 to go up and kind of tell them how on earth their 00:38:58.059 --> 00:39:00.960 country could play a t20 and what they had to 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:05.179 do yeah um to comply what was that like yeah 00:39:05.179 --> 00:39:07.300 it was fun i really enjoy i actually really enjoy 00:39:07.300 --> 00:39:09.980 public speaking weirdly i don't don't like networking 00:39:09.980 --> 00:39:12.760 and and socializing in rooms full of people but 00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:15.940 i don't mind speaking at people yes um no it 00:39:15.940 --> 00:39:17.980 was fun i got i kind of was like right how do 00:39:17.980 --> 00:39:23.699 i make really dull regulations interesting so 00:39:23.699 --> 00:39:27.110 i got everyone in the room to stand up And I 00:39:27.110 --> 00:39:31.170 said, please sit down if you you only have artificial 00:39:31.170 --> 00:39:34.670 turf in. venues in your country so like 50 sat 00:39:34.670 --> 00:39:37.130 down and then i'd be like sit down if you and 00:39:37.130 --> 00:39:39.210 i eventually got most ridiculous i was like sit 00:39:39.210 --> 00:39:41.389 down don't be floodlights and all of this stuff 00:39:41.389 --> 00:39:43.469 eventually i got the whole room to sit down and 00:39:43.469 --> 00:39:45.170 i was like you'll be pleased to know that every 00:39:45.170 --> 00:39:47.150 single one of you can still play a t20 international 00:39:47.150 --> 00:39:50.889 nice and they were like oh okay because i was 00:39:50.889 --> 00:39:52.389 trying to like go through what the regulations 00:39:52.389 --> 00:39:54.969 were around the point was is we're trying to 00:39:54.969 --> 00:39:56.789 keep it open and it's not going to be perfect 00:39:56.789 --> 00:40:00.030 and you get you kind of start these projects 00:40:00.030 --> 00:40:03.969 as well where you spend ages trying to make the 00:40:03.969 --> 00:40:06.869 perfect solution and you spend you know 12 months 00:40:06.869 --> 00:40:10.250 like building a system and we basically were 00:40:10.250 --> 00:40:12.510 like quite open to say right we've only got 12 00:40:12.510 --> 00:40:14.070 months through this it's not going to be perfect 00:40:14.070 --> 00:40:16.389 but we're going to learn pretty quickly so let 00:40:16.389 --> 00:40:18.590 the whole point is we want to get people playing 00:40:18.590 --> 00:40:20.650 you know countries playing more cricket so let's 00:40:20.650 --> 00:40:23.530 let them play and we may make you know mistakes 00:40:23.530 --> 00:40:25.429 along the way or there may be things that we 00:40:25.429 --> 00:40:29.719 have to tighten up but let's not let that stop 00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:31.659 us so I think that was the mentality which was 00:40:31.659 --> 00:40:33.840 great yeah and that gets you moving presumably 00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:35.579 because if you're worried about it being perfect 00:40:35.579 --> 00:40:37.780 then you could end up just procrastinating for 00:40:37.780 --> 00:40:39.719 ages thinking well it's just not possible yeah 00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:41.679 whereas actually to just be like this is going 00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:44.039 to evolve let's make a start do as much as we 00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:46.579 can and then presumably over the years that follow 00:40:46.579 --> 00:40:49.260 tweaks then occur don't they and it all gets 00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:52.980 yeah so Even though towards the end of your cricketing 00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:55.420 career, it maybe wasn't the nicest experience 00:40:55.420 --> 00:40:58.639 for you, you've gone on to continue to champion 00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:00.340 cricket, haven't you? Like everything you've 00:41:00.340 --> 00:41:03.519 been doing has been improving and championing 00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:06.480 the women's game, it sounds like. Yeah, because 00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:10.099 I saw the bigger picture because I knew it wasn't 00:41:10.099 --> 00:41:15.219 a game for me as in to play, but I... knew what 00:41:15.219 --> 00:41:18.320 it's done for so many people other people other 00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:23.320 women other cultures than me and I love how cricket 00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:26.579 brings people together how it's a sport that's 00:41:26.579 --> 00:41:30.440 really social like you spend 50 % of the time 00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:33.639 nine of you are nattering on the side of a pitch 00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:35.840 two of you are doing some hard work in the middle 00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:40.179 it's one of those sports that's really changed 00:41:40.179 --> 00:41:43.340 a lot of the culture like I you know I got to 00:41:43.340 --> 00:41:45.360 know quite well some of the pakistan women's 00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:48.960 team and just some of their stories are absolutely 00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:52.059 incredible around what they've been through has 00:41:52.059 --> 00:41:54.340 there been an empowerment going on there yeah 00:41:54.340 --> 00:41:57.639 then for them yeah and acceptance around acceptance 00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:02.320 yeah around how women can play sport too i mean 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:05.949 there's still a long long way to go yeah So there's 00:42:05.949 --> 00:42:07.190 a couple of things I wanted to ask you about 00:42:07.190 --> 00:42:09.909 in terms of sort of advice or tips you might 00:42:09.909 --> 00:42:11.869 give to other women following in your footsteps. 00:42:12.030 --> 00:42:15.070 One is young girls who might be interested in 00:42:15.070 --> 00:42:19.710 a sporting career and what you would tell them 00:42:19.710 --> 00:42:23.190 it's important to do. And then maybe women who 00:42:23.190 --> 00:42:26.550 are looking to change profession and changing 00:42:26.550 --> 00:42:29.769 that, making that big step because they're the... 00:42:29.980 --> 00:42:32.079 The two things I think are really powerful about 00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:34.579 your story. A really interesting piece of advice, 00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.139 not that it was given to me personally, but it 00:42:37.139 --> 00:42:39.719 was like one of those classic conferences that 00:42:39.719 --> 00:42:41.880 someone was saying how she was trying to get, 00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:45.119 she really wanted to be in marketing. She kept 00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:47.360 getting told, you don't have the experience, 00:42:47.480 --> 00:42:49.000 you don't have the experience. She's like, well, 00:42:49.059 --> 00:42:51.199 how am I ever going to get the experience if 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:54.719 you don't give me a chance? So what she decided 00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:58.059 to do was actually decide to create her own experience. 00:42:59.170 --> 00:43:02.650 So decided to start her own blogs, her own websites 00:43:02.650 --> 00:43:06.630 to kind of market herself and do something off 00:43:06.630 --> 00:43:09.929 her own back. And actually, this is really not 00:43:09.929 --> 00:43:11.630 answering your question, but it's kind of something 00:43:11.630 --> 00:43:13.989 I want to talk about. I want to say it was sort 00:43:13.989 --> 00:43:17.590 of 2018. I was in Dubai. And for my New Year's 00:43:17.590 --> 00:43:19.710 resolution, not that I've done any really ever 00:43:19.710 --> 00:43:23.349 since, I decided to create a blog because I wanted 00:43:23.349 --> 00:43:25.949 to do something very different for myself and 00:43:25.949 --> 00:43:29.679 push myself out my comfort zone. So the blog 00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:33.300 was called Alpha Beta Zumba. And I went, there 00:43:33.300 --> 00:43:36.139 are 52 weeks of the year. There's 26 letters 00:43:36.139 --> 00:43:39.019 of the alphabet. And I decided to try a new sport 00:43:39.019 --> 00:43:42.099 or activity for each letter of the alphabet during 00:43:42.099 --> 00:43:44.920 this year. Wow. I had an incredible year. My 00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:48.079 phone photos for that year are videos. The storage 00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:51.420 is a bit blocked, but also excruciatingly painful 00:43:51.420 --> 00:43:54.980 and uncomfortable to like go out and speak to 00:43:54.980 --> 00:43:57.940 strangers. to put myself out there and kind of 00:43:57.940 --> 00:44:00.320 go up to someone at the beginning of this activity 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:03.099 be like hi I'm Holly I'm doing this thing do 00:44:03.099 --> 00:44:05.079 you mind if I do some filming it'd be great you 00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:06.980 know just trying this for the first time and 00:44:06.980 --> 00:44:10.219 like 90 % of the time the response was yeah absolutely 00:44:10.219 --> 00:44:12.539 that sounds brilliant like what's your blog like 00:44:12.539 --> 00:44:14.920 we'll help you out and actually getting such 00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:17.820 a positive response but feeling so awkward about 00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:21.579 it and understanding what it's like to be a woman 00:44:21.579 --> 00:44:24.940 but also to be a woman starting something from 00:44:24.940 --> 00:44:27.619 scratch and going into something as a complete 00:44:27.619 --> 00:44:31.500 beginner. Yeah. And feeling like really, you 00:44:31.500 --> 00:44:35.940 know, self -conscious, quite, you know, feeling 00:44:35.940 --> 00:44:38.699 a little bit embarrassed about the standard compared 00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:41.280 to people that were playing regularly. Or at 00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:43.239 the same time, just feeling really liberated 00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:46.719 about it and just really enjoying some of the 00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:50.019 stuff I did. What do you think you gained from 00:44:50.019 --> 00:44:53.670 doing that? What did it give you back? a real 00:44:53.670 --> 00:44:55.670 kind of life experience and understanding about 00:44:55.670 --> 00:44:59.150 kind of barriers to women in sport and why you 00:44:59.150 --> 00:45:02.269 might not want to start like the I really had 00:45:02.269 --> 00:45:05.130 to consciously force myself to go because I knew 00:45:05.130 --> 00:45:08.389 it was part on some things it really taught me 00:45:08.389 --> 00:45:11.599 that actually communicating with people and speaking 00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:14.619 to people actually 90 % of the time everyone's 00:45:14.619 --> 00:45:16.480 really friendly and welcoming I'm still working 00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:19.079 on it I still hate networking I still have a 00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:21.039 really serious face when I go into a room because 00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:24.119 I don't like I thought I would still find it 00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:26.659 really awkward um so that's a work in progress 00:45:26.659 --> 00:45:31.219 and then how about for women who might be just 00:45:31.219 --> 00:45:34.420 not feeling their love for their current career 00:45:34.420 --> 00:45:37.340 and but are a bit scared maybe that they're going 00:45:37.340 --> 00:45:39.280 to let themselves down or let people down if 00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:42.019 they change given that you've been through that 00:45:42.019 --> 00:45:46.000 what would you say to them I'd say take a minute 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:50.019 as in take a minute for yourself like be patient 00:45:50.019 --> 00:45:53.619 with yourself and understanding and and feel 00:45:53.619 --> 00:45:57.239 like what it is you really want I think people 00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:00.760 are looking for a kind of a sign or a golden 00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:04.039 moment to go I'm not currently happy with what 00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:06.880 I'm doing but they're waiting for something else 00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:11.820 to come along and maybe feel they can't leave 00:46:11.820 --> 00:46:14.860 because they don't know what to next but I think 00:46:14.860 --> 00:46:19.800 that doesn't matter so much I think it's about 00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:22.440 if you know to your core that you are unhappy 00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:26.420 and want to make a move just move and it may 00:46:26.420 --> 00:46:29.119 not be the right move but at least you'll know 00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:31.599 okay i don't like that you can move again you 00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:34.320 can move again yes and don't be afraid to to 00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:37.679 do that it doesn't have to be your north star 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:40.719 your calling or you know something that comes 00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:43.039 along reminding me of what you were saying um 00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:45.880 about the big project with the 2020 going from 00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:50.630 10 to 150 which is don't worry about it being 00:46:50.630 --> 00:46:53.449 perfect don't worry about your first step being 00:46:53.449 --> 00:46:58.010 the right step like there's some predestined 00:46:58.010 --> 00:46:59.670 route you're supposed to be taking and you've 00:46:59.670 --> 00:47:02.889 got to wait for that to open out actually a bit 00:47:02.889 --> 00:47:05.590 like your what did you call it alpha beta zumba 00:47:05.590 --> 00:47:09.349 was alpha beta zumba is just actually just go 00:47:09.349 --> 00:47:12.869 try some stuff just get out there and try some 00:47:12.869 --> 00:47:15.349 stuff or take some time like you're saying take 00:47:15.349 --> 00:47:17.590 some time for yourself so you had to take some 00:47:17.590 --> 00:47:19.940 time you broke your thumb but actually in that 00:47:19.940 --> 00:47:22.320 six weeks to eight weeks that's when you thought 00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:26.619 oh my gosh I am happy and that's the light bulb 00:47:26.619 --> 00:47:29.820 moment yes isn't it where you think right so 00:47:29.820 --> 00:47:33.619 what do I do now with that insight yes I can 00:47:33.619 --> 00:47:35.920 either carry on I can put myself back where I 00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:40.139 was but now I have this knowledge yeah got to 00:47:40.139 --> 00:47:43.480 do something with it yeah no you're right But 00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:45.880 it still took me two tours to then do something 00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:49.019 about it. Yes. Yeah. But yeah. These things aren't 00:47:49.019 --> 00:47:52.019 quick or easy, are they? But it's that kind of, 00:47:52.019 --> 00:47:53.880 I think that's what's really helpful listening 00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:57.260 to other women's journeys is that actually just 00:47:57.260 --> 00:48:00.699 have a bit of faith in your own intuition, I 00:48:00.699 --> 00:48:03.920 think is a very powerful thing to think about. 00:48:04.579 --> 00:48:07.639 Listen to your emotions as well. Like you said 00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:09.960 about being emotionally intelligent. not about 00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.300 other people, but about yourself. Am I okay? 00:48:12.739 --> 00:48:15.739 Am I asking for the help I need? Am I having 00:48:15.739 --> 00:48:18.099 the experiences I want in life? Am I feeling 00:48:18.099 --> 00:48:21.559 the way I want to feel in life? And even if you 00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:25.639 have a wonderful job, if you're not happy, it's 00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:30.199 not a wonderful job. It's just a job. Yeah. And 00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:32.880 so as a final thing, we kind of touched on this 00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:34.900 earlier, but just as a more general career overview, 00:48:35.099 --> 00:48:37.199 just thinking about where you are now, if you 00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:40.380 were to go back to that kind of 15 year old Holly 00:48:40.380 --> 00:48:42.639 and just whispering her ear something about the 00:48:42.639 --> 00:48:45.019 journey to come. What tip would you give her? 00:48:45.699 --> 00:48:50.340 I certainly wouldn't want to tell her what's 00:48:50.340 --> 00:48:52.579 coming because I think that's half the beauty 00:48:52.579 --> 00:48:55.360 of it is that I still don't know where I'm going. 00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:56.920 You know, the classic case of where are you going 00:48:56.920 --> 00:48:59.900 to be in five years? I still have no idea. And 00:48:59.900 --> 00:49:01.920 I've actually ended up, I've traveled around 00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:04.920 the world and I've ended up. now living five 00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:06.719 minutes down the road from literally where I 00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:09.559 grew up and I never thought I would be end up 00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:12.159 back there I almost vowed actually at 15 that 00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:14.159 I would never end up back in my village and now 00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:17.619 I am and I actually love it but um you know for 00:49:17.619 --> 00:49:19.599 very different reasons from what I ever thought 00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:25.719 so I think I think just take you know continue 00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:27.880 to take every opportunity like you said when 00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:30.179 I had that will to just jump into an opportunity 00:49:30.179 --> 00:49:33.420 I was like yeah I'll do that yeah um yeah I'll 00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:37.519 give that a go because that is the best experience 00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:41.960 you can ever have and be willing to understand 00:49:41.960 --> 00:49:45.739 learn from mistakes and be not afraid to make 00:49:45.739 --> 00:49:49.059 them just don't make them twice I think I think 00:49:49.059 --> 00:49:52.780 that's the the key is kind of like learning you 00:49:52.780 --> 00:49:57.019 know learn quick yeah learn and learn quick and 00:49:57.019 --> 00:49:59.519 be open to experience I think you can hear that 00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:02.039 running right through everything that you've 00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:04.559 done yeah and that has been the thing that has 00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:07.559 brought you to a place where you are much much 00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:10.659 happier and feel like you're having a much bigger 00:50:10.659 --> 00:50:14.300 impact in the way you want to yeah that's wonderful 00:50:14.300 --> 00:50:16.199 Holly thank you so much it's been an absolute 00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:19.360 pleasure to chat to you and I hope people have 00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:20.840 enjoyed hearing your story I think there'll be 00:50:20.840 --> 00:50:25.110 some surprises in there Probably. But thank you. 00:50:25.110 --> 00:50:31.050 I really appreciate it. No problem. Thanks. In 00:50:31.050 --> 00:50:33.289 the next episode, somebody who's been a high 00:50:33.289 --> 00:50:36.010 performer suddenly isn't performing as well. 00:50:36.449 --> 00:50:38.530 That could be your impact on them. You know, 00:50:38.530 --> 00:50:41.789 you've overmanaged and you've micromanaged. Don't 00:50:41.789 --> 00:50:44.010 let great get in the way of good. And sometimes 00:50:44.010 --> 00:50:46.550 good is good enough. And it's not saying that 00:50:46.550 --> 00:50:48.530 you're lowering your standards. It's just actually 00:50:48.530 --> 00:50:51.190 you're moving your capacity of work elsewhere. 00:50:54.570 --> 00:50:54.889 Thank you.