Hi, I'm psychologist and author Leona Deakin, and this is Lead Her Ship Journeys,
the podcast where we delve into ordinary women doing extraordinary things
so we can understand the ways they think and act that enable them to survive and to thrive.
Last week we heard from Zoe Gascoigne.
She is the Deputy Director of Fraud Investigation Services at HMRC.
A big serious job.
And she talked about why making the greedy pay is the purpose that drives her.
But also how she's doing it in her own really authentic and colourful way.
This week on Leadership Journeys.
Never be afraid to kind of lean into that conversation.
So whether or not you're attending a networking event,
if you're looking for someone on the platform,
you never know where that conversation is going to go.
I think if you're intentional with that conversation,
if your conversation is two-way, and by all means absolutely ask for help.
But I think if that intention is there, you never know where it's going to lead.
And it's when I find out about those in months and years later,
I have massive FOMO, like, how did I not know that happened?
And I always feel like that absolutely, I wasn't in the room like Cilla Black bringing people together.
But there's an element of what have we enabled through this community?
Can saying yes to any and every opportunity really lead you to live in your dream?
Here on Leadership Journeys today, I'm very excited about this.
We have an awesome champion of diversity, Simone Roach, MBE no less.
Not only is Simone the founder and CEO of We Are Power,
an organisation with the aim of accelerating gender equality,
wider inclusion and social mobility across the UK and beyond.
She's also a podcast queen, so I'm a little bit in awe today.
An honorary captain of the Royal Navy and my husband is a Royal Navy commander retired,
so we'll try not to go off on Navy talk too much.
And she was awarded her MBE in 2018 for services to gender equality.
So there's so much to talk to Simone about today, all about empowering women,
all about inclusivity and diversity.
But I think one of the things I'm really interested in is her views on the power of self-belief.
Be you male or female, so I'm sure we'll dig into that.
Welcome, Simone.
Oh, thank you so much and welcome. Welcome to my home.
Oh, yes, we should say we are recording today on Simone's houseboat, which is awesome.
So I, you know, married to an ex-sailor myself.
We have a narrowboat, so I'm very jealous of your Dutch barge,
which is much wider and much more homely than my little narrowboat.
Lady Isabella welcomes you both.
Lady Isabella, I love it.
So let's start a little bit with the We Are Power.
So just tell listeners a little bit about what it is, what it does, what the dream is.
Oh, gosh, all of those things.
Yeah, just that.
OK, episode one.
It all started 10 years ago now with Northern Power Women.
In fact, it was called Ready for Change.
I was up and down on trains, back and forth on the West Coast Main Line to that low London town,
working in and around gender equality, social impact.
And just one day I thought, well, what would happen if instead of slapping down here week in, week out,
which I really enjoyed and built a really great community,
setting up 10x white, all women and ultimately gathering fantastic people.
But knowing in my heart that the North is full of fantastic humans and organisations
and causes and trailblazers and everything in between,
what would happen if we shone a light?
And it was around the time of the whole Northern Powerhouse,
if you like, umbrella movement and campaign.
And I thought, what would happen?
So I thought, right, you know what, I'm going to have a look at this because I was a bit impatient
and maybe a bit sick of the travel too, but wanted to really spotlight.
And so I created this event called Women Inspiring the Economy.
It was during a big festival that was happening in Liverpool.
And I thought, wow, this is amazing, like 250 people there,
all levels, all backgrounds, all stories, all genders, really important.
And I couldn't let it lie because there's some things that happened at that
that made me believe that there was more that we could really influence and do.
Gathering people in one room for one day is not going to change the world,
but what would happen if we put momentum behind it?
And so I created a movement called Ready for Change,
hashtag Northern Power Women.
And as I was building up to the launch of it, a friend of mine went,
Simone, you've got two brands here, Northern Power Women, Ready for Change.
What's going on?
And I went, well, I don't really want to put women in the title
because I don't want to exclude women who don't really think this is for them
or men, which are equally important to this wider gender inclusion conversation.
Anyway, I did, I changed the brand.
Northern Power Women started, launched, 300 people and just kind of took off from there
and as it's galloped over the years, we've galloped now 120,000 people in a community.
It's a community that is pan-North, pan-global really.
We've got, once you're a Northern Power Woman, you're always a Northern Power Woman.
Northern Power Women has transformed to what we are now.
We are power, which encompasses our power collective movement,
which is all around that connectivity between amazing people and emerging talent.
So whether it's people in college, university,
early careers, we've got constant people that we enable to pass on their skills and knowledge.
And then the Northern Power Women Awards, which is now in its ninth year,
so big 10 years next year, largest event celebrating gender equality in Europe,
a thousand people, 1600 nominations, 72 judges, 120 finalists, game changers.
And for me, the Northern Power Women Awards is that huge,
if you like, pool and sort of celebration of role models, which is the core of everything.
So the core of everything about We Are Power, which is driving that change,
creating that movement to accelerate and impact gender equality, social value, social impact
and wider inclusion is all done through that We Are Power umbrella.
So whether you're a big organization that wants to partner with us,
whether you're an individual who wants to give back,
whether you're somebody who needs help, whether you're a big organization
who needs help, we've created that movement to be able to create that,
I suppose, that transition of knowledge and that transfer of information
between individuals and equally to showcase, recognize and celebrate role models.
It's so multifaceted as well, because you're talking about there's loads of networking going on,
there's campaigning going on, there's mentoring going on.
And then the awards are obviously celebrating and emphasizing all of the role models that are out there.
Presumably they're from diverse worlds, diverse organizations and sectors.
You've got all sorts of women there, haven't you?
For me, it's storyteller.
I mentioned sort of earlier is when I was down in London, a friend and I,
we co-founded TEDx Whitehall Women, because often around the gender equality,
what I found right in those early days is people would stay in their lane.
So hospitality sector, let's corral all women in hospitality there or banking and finance over here.
And I wanted to kind of do that cross-sector learning, if you like.
The TED Talks enabled me to reach people from different communities,
different backgrounds and give that platform on a stage.
So I think that has sort of stayed with me.
That's constantly stayed with me, that way that we can influence and lobby with a small L
and engage and influence and all that kind of stuff through that power of using your voice
and using your power for good, if you like.
And it's leaning into the emotion of why we work and what we want to achieve in our work, isn't it?
It's making me think of a few kind of women's business conferences that I've attended
and spoken at over the years as a psychologist.
And when I think back to them, they were all, they were lovely and very friendly,
but it was all quite serious, really.
It was all very corporate and professional and almost like in order to make our stamp on the world,
we have to behave a certain way, appear a certain way.
And I think for women, sometimes it's trying to make yourself seem less emotional.
And what's really lovely about what you're talking about is you're bringing all of these just emotions into it.
I did a great event on a warship back to the Navy with an Admiral and she's amazing.
And one of the real takeaways from that, that the audience had, and we had people from all walks of life,
from students to the ship's crew to people at the start of their careers, middle of their careers,
senior careers and everything else. And it was that vulnerability.
And I think if we can create and enable conversations where, again,
we're encouraging people to be themselves, then we're not putting this sugar-coated thing on.
So it's not everything has to be happy.
But if we can create those honest environments, then other people could go, oh my God, it's not all perfectly painted.
But actually that makes me believe I can.
So was the Admiral, was she quite vulnerable then in terms of help?
Yeah, really talking in a positive, great, amazing leader,
but also talking about some of the things that don't go right.
Because not every, sometimes people say, you see people at the top, first female Admiral,
or the first chief exec in this sector, or the first leader over here.
You see this and you, I think if you don't know, you can automatically assume that they've had it all.
They've had that one straight line trajectory and it's all paved.
The path was paved. It was laid out.
And I think it's really good to show those vulnerabilities and the fact that nothing's paved with gold.
There's no silver teaspoon. And people have had their setbacks.
And I think when you do that, it makes you realise that, oh my God, actually they're not all okay.
Yeah, it's really important, isn't it?
I think that's one of my motivations for doing this podcast this way, looking at career journeys.
Because what I've observed, obviously as a psychologist, you get to hear that inner vulnerability,
the things that your clients are worried about or the obstacles they're struggling with.
And they might be a managing director, chief exec, or a senior leader.
And you get to see that that's all real.
That's all going on, no matter how competent, capable, successful you look outside.
And I think that's really important for us to recognise that no one's the finished article.
And nobody got to where they are now being that way the whole time.
It was a journey and they fell over along the way and they were upset along the way and they felt deflated along the way.
But it's something about the persistence, isn't it?
Oh my goodness, everything comes to she who waits, I think.
I think sometimes it's something that I will go by because you'll go, oh, wow, you know?
So take us back then to you.
So if we ask about Simone, when you were in maybe your late teens, early 20s,
what were you hoping your career might be like at that point?
Not a clue.
Well, no, to be honest, no, 20s, I was already in the Navy.
So I had, but in my kind of growing up years, wanted to be a vet because I'd read James Herriot.
Love that book, one of my favourite books.
Realised, oh my God, I'm not good at theology, so maybe not.
And also only wanted to work with animals that I really liked.
So, you know, there was no way I could just be a vet of dogs, dogs and dogs and horses.
Wasn't going to, and guinea pigs, wasn't going to happen.
A hostess, as they were called in the day, absolutely, 100 per cent, wanted to do that,
like to travel, you know, always thought I could do the directions very well.
You know, anyway, too short. Forget that one.
Anyway, no good for me.
Didn't know, genuinely didn't know.
And then one day in college, careers for, you know, the typical leaflet kind of handy out thing.
And the REF were there actually.
And I went and I found myself thinking, oh, that could be interesting.
Went and did the exams, passed the tests.
But there's just something, I don't know, didn't feel like a fit.
I took myself round to the Royal Navy.
I think I went to, I had to go to a phone box to do 192 to find out where it was.
Crazy.
Anyway, I marched myself round.
I went in and I know it was a matter of Chief Petty Officer George Comptis.
He took the mickey out of me.
And it's interesting because we sway away from banter now.
But I actually still believe that good banter is good.
I think that's, you know, or let's give it another label or a name.
But I felt welcomed.
I felt like this could be the adventure that I was maybe looking for because I didn't want the nine to five.
Basically went off during the Navy and it was in the days before women went to sea.
So how old were you then when you joined?
I just turned 18.
I loved it.
I always say it was the best thing I ever did.
So off I went.
It was the 80s, right?
I had big hair.
Yes, I bet.
Massively big hair.
And I had that, I suppose, that fear of not being good enough.
But 18 months in, sadly, my dad died.
Quite short.
You know, thought it was an ulcer, stomach cancer, all awful.
And the Navy were great.
They sent me to the careers office in Liverpool to work.
George Computus was their chief petty officer.
And they sent me there to work for five months in the end.
You know, my mom was only just turned 39, 40, something like that.
And you're an only child.
You know, I'm 20 years old.
But obviously, I'm in the Navy now.
I've got a role and it was my identity.
I loved it.
And so I was still able, I could have just gone off on leave, but I was still able to go to work every day.
But in that period of time while I was there, this always sounds a bit strange when you're kind of grieving.
But because I could be my whole self, I got to go to visit schools with what was called the Royal Navy presentation team.
So I got to go out and visit the schools.
I love that.
And I think it took me a long time to realize one of the reasons I do what I do now was because of those visits.
And it was fun.
I remember thinking, God, what a great, I opened my eyes to how to educate with people that were probably only, what, four years younger than me, three years younger than me.
What you now call a relatable role model, right?
Yes.
And I never thought that because we never used any of those words in those days.
But you knew you were enjoying it.
There was something quite memorable about that experience.
There was something about that that made me go, oh, my goodness.
And two people joined from that whole period I had going out to the schools.
And then I always remember that.
I always wish I wish Facebook had been around at that time to know where they are.
They probably hate me.
They probably like, what did you get me into?
But, you know, I remember I remember that.
I love that.
And then I went back and then working at this crazy base during the Cold War is then in the middle of a park living out in London, literally living my best life.
It was loving it.
And then my boss at the time said, I think you should go and be an officer.
And I went, I don't think they let short northerners with big hair do that.
You know, I'm not sure it's that.
I don't think.
And again, it's that whole thing.
What would you now call a sponsor?
Someone who went, I've got your back.
I will advocate for you.
And I did.
And I went off.
And by this point, women could go to sea.
So I went off to see and drove warships, I suppose.
So, you know, and for me, it was the ultimate adventure.
My goodness, I got the adventure that I signed up to plus then some specialized to air traffic control.
And so I went to be an air traffic controller within the Navy.
And then I got to a point where I was like, you know what?
I'm done. I'm 25.
I want another career.
I want another career before I'm too old to have one, because if I hadn't have left then, it would have been another five years.
I love that you thought at 25, I need to get out now before I'm too old to have a second career.
It's weird. It was a weird thing.
But that was my mindset.
Yes, there's a whole concept in psychology that we don't really know ourselves until the day we die, because we haven't done the things we're going to do or experience the things that teach us about ourselves until the end of the story, which makes sense, doesn't it?
But I think there is something there about as we go through life, we are constantly honing that understanding of who we are, what we enjoy, what makes us happy, what we struggle with, what's really valuable and important to us.
And the fact that we are all different, I think there's that whole idea that, oh, everyone's the same as me.
We're all we're all fall into this normal.
I think that that idea of diversity and difference and that whole paradigm shift is brilliant from a psychological point of view, because I think when we were young, the idea that we're all the same was kind of an accepted philosophy, really.
And then that makes you feel a bit embarrassed about the fact that you can't do the same things as your friends or you're not as bright as some of your fellow students or, you know, your qualities are different.
And that makes you feel a bit awkward in your own skin.
And actually, I'm hoping the next generation of youngsters won't grow up with that same chip on their shoulder.
But so many questions about what you talked about.
The first thing that struck me was that that was he an officer, the guy in the Navy that said you should be an officer. So what did he see in you, do you think, looking back?
What was he observing that made him go, oh, you could actually be a leader of people, not just a doer of tasks?
Do you know what? I've never been asked that. I'm not sure, if I'm honest.
So I always let in every opportunity I'm in, I'm taking the opportunity, I'll take responsibility, ownership.
The one thing I think you learn in the Navy is not just your role or your job, but you always have multiple jobs.
You always have additional responsibilities. And I would always just get involved.
You know, I always I hone those skills that connecting and organizing.
I think what's interesting is with the base we were at at the time, it was a military and civilian cooperation, civil service and military.
So I think the navigation, excuse the pun, but the navigation between the different stakeholders.
And I think I was always pretty good at that because it's easy sometimes in a uniform service to talk a certain language.
But we're not all the same. Not every sailor or officer or army or air force.
We're not the same, you know, just because you're in the military, you don't all just because you're in the Navy, you're not all the same.
So I think there was something in I was ability to talk. It's almost talk different languages. Yes. If you like.
So I think there was something in that and it was just always the I would always go. Yeah, I can.
I think maybe it's the positivity as well. Yeah, positivity, good communication skills, adaptable communication skills.
Yeah, it's interesting when I worked with the police, one of the things we always looked for in a good police officer.
One of the priorities was their ability to change their communication style.
Obviously, they can be in court giving evidence one day and then they can be arresting someone with second language English the next.
So that ability to flex was really critical. So that's what I'm hearing in that.
Yeah, it's interesting back to the Navy. We did you did you did foresee that this would be a bit of Navy conversation.
But there's the role of a chaplain in the Royal Navy. When you talk to a chaplain, when a chaplain talks with you, he takes on your rank.
So the chaplain, he has the best job, right? But so if he's in the officer's mess, he talks at the level of an officer to the captain.
If he's talking to a junior sailor, the same. So you talk, you adopt the same rank as the person.
So there's no hierarchy in it. I always thought that was amazing. I really respected that.
And actually, what I saw then was a peace broker, a fundmaker, a listener.
So I think I wonder whether there's something for me to reflect on there. But I think there's something there was something in that.
I always admired how that chaplain could go from here to here, exactly as you just say about the police.
Yes, dealing with something that is so a bereaved victim one day to, you know, to give evidence in court and be cross examined by a highly educated barrister and holding their own.
So that ability. Yeah, you're right. And that's lovely, isn't it?
The chaplain that the level of empathy that must be going on there in that individual and also the ability to show and build respect.
You're talking to the captain and you as a chaplain have got to be respected.
You're talking to the more junior members or in age or rank and you're having to be relatable and someone that they feel comfortable to talk to because that's your role to let them talk to you.
Yeah, there's some real skill going on there.
There was the positivity that you were talking about the communication skills, but also the leaning in the can do, will do attitude.
Yeah, and you can come to that.
You can completely see as a more senior person, I think anyone who's in a leadership role in an organization spots that.
So the other thing that I was wondering about. So being a female in the military in the 80s with your big hair.
What were the did you face any challenges, any obstacles?
Did were you conscious of being a woman? Absolutely not. And do you know what?
Is it romantic to kind of reflect? You know, but I think I always said, you know, I was never treated differently for being a woman, but I was for being northern.
So this was an era where there were no accents on telly.
There was no Stephen McGoverns and Alex Jones.
It was all BBC English back in those days and the officer status was I thought was the same.
But I remember getting sent a memo going officer cadet Roche, please report to the quarter deck.
Okay, I'll go down with my piece of paper for ECT, effective communication technique, elocution.
I was furious because they gauge that on my postcode.
My postcode was a Lancashire postcode at the time, which is where I was living when I joined the military.
And that that for me was almost like a go.
Yeah, come on. You know, and then I went to you angry.
Yeah, it made me frustrated.
It made me sad because I'd already been in the Navy for a period of time.
They'd made a judgment based on a postcode and I got them.
They're like, oh, my God, you're okay. Your accent's fine.
I'm like, oh, my goodness.
And that thankfully has all gone and changed now.
But at that time, that was that was the frustration moment for me.
But from a female perspective, like I say, is it romantic because actually I was disadvantaged because I couldn't go to sea.
But I knew the rules of games when I joined and you couldn't go to sea.
But then I was part of the in the change.
But what I like hearing about that is and I'm hearing this in quite a few of the women that I'm interviewing is this.
Don't put me in a box. Don't tell me I need to change who I am or what I am.
And I'm imagining there's a fair few people who, you know, you join the Navy.
The officers all speak a certain way. You know, you can hear that Queen's English going on, particularly in the Navy.
Yes. Senior service. Senior service.
Absolutely. And and then you're taken along and told, right, we're going to teach you to speak in a way that and you can imagine a lot of people going, oh, OK.
Well, well, that's obviously important to the organization.
It's important to my career. Whereas you're there going, ha, actually, dare you?
But I was very compliant, but they realized straight away, oh, gosh, you're fine. And I'm like, oh, wow.
Yeah, that's crazy. But these are little little signals, aren't they?
Things that are feeding your passion and your mission.
Now, these are little seedlings, little planted things of.
Yeah, it wasn't the female element that made me different.
And that wasn't the diversity I found as an obstacle.
It was the fact I was from the north that people put a stereotype on you, maybe, or a judgment on you.
Because of where you were born. Absolutely.
And I think you said earlier, you know, we all got put into a box and the normal.
You're you're all the same. Yeah.
I think, oh, no, I love being I love not being the same.
I like not being normal kind of thing.
And I think that was always keen for me.
And I think that was one of the key things when I left the military.
I found initially I thought this is actually quite hard.
I had to reframe what I was looking for and what I wanted to do, because employers and agencies that I spoke to, I thought I'd get a job easier.
I was an officer in the Navy. You know, I've done all this stuff.
No, no, you I'm in a military box now that says you can only follow instructions and you can't work on on your own, you know, sort of volition.
That was a judgment made by, if you like, the corporate world, which is so different to what goes on in those military environments where there's so much education about how to lead, how to communicate and all those things.
You know that embracing your own difference, wanting to be different, was that always in your character or was that something that evolved as a result of your experiences in the workplace?
Do you think I was shy as a kid growing up?
You know, I came from only child, but really extended family.
So we always did stuff together.
So I was always very self-sufficient, independent, I think.
I definitely grew my confidence and belief during the Navy without a shadow of a doubt.
I definitely found my home.
Learning that it didn't matter how tight the sheets were to bounce the coin off.
That wasn't the that wasn't the ask.
The ask was following an instruction so that in the point of a critical situation, you would know what to do.
But equally outside of those lines, there's lots of blurring because you need your own initiative and your own ability to to lead, make decisions and stuff like so.
I like the difference of it all.
I like the diversity of that whole training and activity and opportunity.
And that what I didn't let that go is out of training and into my different jobs.
Every opportunity I said yes to.
You can do stuff you love.
And I know that's hard because right now we're you know, this cost of living crisis, we're having to make decisions about what we do and what we don't do and money and our lives.
But for that, absolutely that period in my life, I realized that I could do stuff outside.
It was well, to be honest, it was 24-7 job really.
But I never saw it like that.
I didn't know any different, did I?
I didn't know what a nine to five was.
So for me, just doing everything and taking these opportunities was amazing.
Just being really open to experiences.
Yeah. Yeah.
Just throwing yourself into everything.
Oh my goodness.
Off sailing, off this.
You know, sat on the stage on Easter Sunday with the Pope, for goodness sake.
You know, like some of this stuff you go, it's some of this like pinch me moments.
Like, you know, you don't get that when you join the Navy in your toolkit, you know, and your opportunities taskbook.
But you they're there.
There are opportunities there to do amazing things.
Say yes, work it out.
And that's part of who you are, isn't it?
Because we were just talking before we started recording and I was saying I was going to Tarragona for my summer holiday and you were saying you did what's it called?
Castells.
These are like human towers, aren't they?
Where basically you get as high as you can with the little kids on the top. So if anyone who's been to Catalonia will probably have seen these going on.
But this is your so here you are now.
You're a successful entrepreneur.
You run your own business.
You've got one hundred and a thousand women in your community.
You've got an MBE and you're throwing yourself into building a human tower.
So there's obviously something about you that's very adventure seeking, experience seeking, isn't there?
I found myself in Tarragona.
My husband had been had had had a couple of lots of cancer.
And so we took a break.
We ended up in Tarragona, ended up coming across someone I'd met 10 years ago, introduced me to the world of Castells.
We knew the Dutch human towers in Tarragona.
So we go in and watched.
And then lo and behold, I am now a Castellera, which is Catalan.
But I am a Castellera.
I am the only British Castellera in the team.
It's phenomenal.
But yes, I am. I think I have that affliction of being an all in girl.
I can't just go skirt around the edges.
I'm literally all in.
And that includes when we're there, Tuesday night training, Friday night training and a show of a weekend.
So summertime is a busy time for me.
I spend a lot of time under men's armpits.
Spend a lot of time is the as it is quite it's I spent a lot of time thinking in that space because it is Catalan and I can get I can do good Spanish.
But I'm my Catalan is now something a work in progress or something else.
I'm saying yes to and learning.
But there's something about learning this this new space where often I'm not seen or heard because my language is not as is new into the new language.
And they are it's a very strategic four or five, six hundred people.
And I'm one of the people you have to follow instruction.
You've got a nap tells you where to be.
It's proper like Pep Guardiola like, you know, up style.
It's really because it's serious.
Someone falls and they're in a back brace kind of thing.
But there's something quite about lifting, holding people up.
There's something metaphoric.
Yeah, there's something really about that.
But yeah, it's something that is my my current my current world.
I love it.
You know, and what have I done since I joined the team?
I've you know, you have to earn your shirt.
You have to do so many twenty five practices and 14 shows before you get a shirt.
And then they give it out in this big ceremony.
I was crying my eyes out.
I was like, oh, my God, this is like so amazing.
It's like passing out the Navy.
It was that because I put that much into it.
Various bits of research over the years done into entrepreneurs.
The thing that is their drive, you know, from the outside, it might look like their driver is no money and, you know, a wonderful lifestyle and all of the power and status that comes with being, you know,
a successful business leader in actual fact, their intrinsic motivation is a need for achievement.
They just want to achieve something.
They want to be able to say I did dot dot dot.
And that might be I did change the world or it might be I did hold up a human tower.
It doesn't matter.
The achievement is the achievement.
And you can see that motivator running through everything you've done, can't you?
So what have you learned working with this community of female leaders and their allies?
What have you learned is important for people, male or female, to be doing in order to live their best life?
I think always ask for help.
I think, you know, I think asking for help is irrespective.
I think of me just dropping into the WhatsApp group the other week and I didn't ask for help, but it was just I think I did.
I must have given a signal out.
I don't do that very often.
I think you have to be people want to support people, want to impart their own knowledge.
You know, people want you to people don't want you to make mistakes that they've made on the whole.
You know, we're not talking about the can't can vouch for 100 percent of people here, can we?
You know, the sense for me is creating a community where people can give or gain like a swap shop, you know, that swap shop of knowledge, that swap shop.
It's as simple as that for me and creating those environments where we can come together and create.
I always believe if we bring people together in the right space with the right energy, with the right connection, communication, magic will happen.
And that sounds that sounds does that sound fluffy?
No, because I've seen it. It happens year in, year out.
I got an email this week.
Your winner, one of your winners last year has changed my life.
You know, she wasn't at the awards or anything, but she saw and followed what was going on.
And that woman I was having a really awful time.
And the woman, Deborah, Deborah Lawson, I'm going to shout her out, disability advocate, won our person with purpose.
And I reached out to her. She spent hundreds of hours with me helping supporting.
I'm no longer no longer on the edge. I now want to pass that on.
And I think there's that infectious kind of if I do something good or I receive the benefit of that, I can't help but do something good.
And it is interesting. The awards. People think about awards being one night and a dinner and lovely.
Fantastic. But there's an element when someone gets nominated, we find statistically the first thing that they do is go and nominate someone else.
Yeah. So I think there's that I think it's making space for other people.
I think it is that positive collaborative space. And then I find it empowers and enables people.
Yes. And there's something kind of validating going on, isn't it?
Because I think what I observe with a lot of very really high potential, very capable people is that inner critic is just too harsh.
Yes. And so to be in an environment where other people around you are going, we believe in you or we see you or we think what you're doing is amazing.
But actually, could you help me? Because you do something that I have no idea how to do.
And that quietens down that inner critic, doesn't it? So it's like a gift we can give to people who might be sitting at home on a night going, oh, what am I doing with my life?
Why? Why am I in this? I'm not good enough. I'm making a fool of myself.
All of those that nonsense people have like bouncing around their brains.
And this is lovely because it's all about that positive reinforcement. I mean, don't get me wrong.
I've had some clients in the past that have said, oh, you're just too positive and fluffy Leona.
Oh, no, I'm not saying that you shouldn't give constructive feedback.
If I'm doing something that's having a negative impact or a deficient impact, please tell me because that's how I get better.
However, don't only tell me that. And in fact, that needs to be a smaller percentage of what you tell me than the things where you go.
The way you handle that conversation was really calm and really considered.
That was lovely to watch. Or the way that you built energy in that room with your enthusiasm and your humor was wonderful.
And you infected, you know, that's the stuff people need to hear.
So they go, oh, that's what people value about me. That's the positive impact I can have.
That's where my skills lie. And it sounds like you're creating a community that's about that.
How do women who are listening to this get involved in this?
We are power.net. We have a digital hub that has a weekly podcast.
We have monthly webinars. We have monthly speed mentoring events.
The whole idea is you can go and search for help, support or offers of help.
Yeah. So it's all there to get involved. You've got the awards.
Think about who you're going to nominate or nominate yourself. All about that.
Yeah. And maybe to lean in. Even if you think, oh, maybe this is not for me or maybe, you know, I'm not part of this or worthy of this.
Lean in and have a go. Just lean in and have a go and just see what happens. Do it for three months. See what happens.
And I think that's often the thing with what your role modelling and what you're talking about in your career is throw yourself into experiences.
Understand what makes you happy. Understand what you're good at.
So it sounds to me like you've always been good with people and building relationships.
That you embraced your northernness. We were talking about when you were renovating your boat and you were actually renting one in London and you were going and knocking and asking for advice.
And people, the southern people were a bit taken aback and you had to say, but I'm a northerner.
And you're like, oh, OK, yeah, you're chatting and you're going to come and interrupt my private time.
It's a fast track car. Oh, I get it now.
So building relationships, building communities, being very people orientated.
That's obviously something that's a skill of yours.
And then that builds into that makes you better at communication because you're paying attention to people.
I think that's almost like a cause and effect thing going on, isn't it?
But then that that's leaning into things, saying yes, such great advice.
But I suppose the overriding thing that's striking me is that all of those experiences you've had in life, you've then drawn them together to do something really meaningful.
So you said being a Castel. Yes. Yes.
You're lifting people up.
And that's just a metaphor for everything you're doing, isn't it?
And we are power. You are lifting people up.
Yeah, female. It was obviously meant to come by my life, wasn't it?
It was obviously meant to be there, but tracks back to start in a conversation with a Tarragona guy in Geneva as part of a TED conference 11 years ago.
It's crazy. You never know where those conversations will lead.
I think that's something I would always say was never be afraid to kind of lean into that conversation.
So whether or not you're attending a networking event, you're looking for someone on the platform, you never know where that conversation is going to go.
I think if you're intentional with that conversation, if your conversation is two way, yes, you know, and by all means, absolutely ask for help.
But I think if that intention is there, you never know where it's going to lead.
And it's when I find out about those in in months and years later, I've got massive FOMO.
I'm like, I don't know. That happened.
And I always feel like that. Absolutely. I wasn't in the room like Silla Black bringing people together.
But there is an element of what have we enabled through this community?
Yeah. And that's what I'm always super proud of.
And that's what I want to. That's how it has to continue to go.
That's what has to be the ongoing legacy is, you know, irrespective of what technology happens in our world, what awful things happen in our world also.
And changing times as we see constantly, people will always be a factor.
And I think if we can harness the power and I think you talk, you mentioned power earlier, I think our intention is always about using that power for good.
If you look at the word power, we is in the middle and that is intentional.
So when we, if you like, moved into the brand of we are power, it was about we.
We are in the center of this and we all have an opportunity to do something for someone else or ourselves.
But we have to it's about using that power for good.
So as a final thing, I wanted to know if you could go back to that younger Simone before you started on this career, maybe pre-Navy,
what would you whisper in her ear? Would you tell her any advice you wish you'd known?
I think it is don't worry about having it all mapped out. Don't worry about knowing all the answers.
Don't worry that you don't know because you don't know what you don't know.
It's all OK. You know, say yes to those opportunities.
I say it's never too early to start building a network.
And people think of network as chucking business cards out and LinkedIn connections and stuff like that. But it's never too early to build that community and build that tribe around you.
Yes. Those people that you go to, you may only speak to once a year, but you know that you can drop a WhatsApp message or a DM or whatever it may be.
But yeah, don't don't worry about having it all sorted. No one's got it all sorted.
Yes. And be you. Be you. That's coming over.
Celebrate your difference. Don't worry about you ask me for one bit of advice. I'm so sorry.
It's fine. I wasn't expecting one piece of advice. I've all hyphenated it in a big paragraph.
But yes, so celebrate your own difference. Don't worry about not having a plan.
Ask for help when you need help and just be open to experience. Be kind.
Be kind. What a lovely place to stop. Simone, honestly, I could just chat here all day.
It's been just absolutely wonderful. And I am certainly going to be leaning into your power because I feel quite inspired by it.
It's a wonderful thing. Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much for asking me. Brilliant. Thank you.
Coming up in leadership journeys, I guess I haven't really spoken much about why I retired because I felt like my identity was cricket.
And so I was like, well, who am I if I'm not playing cricket for England?
I was basically getting very anxious. Anyway, I ended up breaking my thumb playing men's cricket.
I had a good eight week block in the summer with no cricket. I couldn't play and I was really happy.