1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,200 Hi, I'm psychologist and author Leona Deakin, and this is Lead Her Ship Journeys, 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:09,600 the podcast where we delve into ordinary women doing extraordinary things 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:14,800 so we can understand the ways they think and act that enable them to survive and to thrive. 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:18,800 Last week we heard from Zoe Gascoigne. 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:24,400 She is the Deputy Director of Fraud Investigation Services at HMRC. 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,000 A big serious job. 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,800 And she talked about why making the greedy pay is the purpose that drives her. 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:36,600 But also how she's doing it in her own really authentic and colourful way. 9 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,400 This week on Leadership Journeys. 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,400 Never be afraid to kind of lean into that conversation. 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,800 So whether or not you're attending a networking event, 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:45,400 if you're looking for someone on the platform, 13 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,200 you never know where that conversation is going to go. 14 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,600 I think if you're intentional with that conversation, 15 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,600 if your conversation is two-way, and by all means absolutely ask for help. 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,200 But I think if that intention is there, you never know where it's going to lead. 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,400 And it's when I find out about those in months and years later, 18 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,200 I have massive FOMO, like, how did I not know that happened? 19 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:10,200 And I always feel like that absolutely, I wasn't in the room like Cilla Black bringing people together. 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,400 But there's an element of what have we enabled through this community? 21 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:19,800 Can saying yes to any and every opportunity really lead you to live in your dream? 22 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,800 Here on Leadership Journeys today, I'm very excited about this. 23 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:29,400 We have an awesome champion of diversity, Simone Roach, MBE no less. 24 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,600 Not only is Simone the founder and CEO of We Are Power, 25 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,000 an organisation with the aim of accelerating gender equality, 26 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,000 wider inclusion and social mobility across the UK and beyond. 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,600 She's also a podcast queen, so I'm a little bit in awe today. 28 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:51,400 An honorary captain of the Royal Navy and my husband is a Royal Navy commander retired, 29 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,400 so we'll try not to go off on Navy talk too much. 30 00:01:54,400 --> 00:02:00,200 And she was awarded her MBE in 2018 for services to gender equality. 31 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:05,000 So there's so much to talk to Simone about today, all about empowering women, 32 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,400 all about inclusivity and diversity. 33 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:13,200 But I think one of the things I'm really interested in is her views on the power of self-belief. 34 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,000 Be you male or female, so I'm sure we'll dig into that. 35 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,200 Welcome, Simone. 36 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,000 Oh, thank you so much and welcome. Welcome to my home. 37 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,800 Oh, yes, we should say we are recording today on Simone's houseboat, which is awesome. 38 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,400 So I, you know, married to an ex-sailor myself. 39 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,200 We have a narrowboat, so I'm very jealous of your Dutch barge, 40 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:36,000 which is much wider and much more homely than my little narrowboat. 41 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,800 Lady Isabella welcomes you both. 42 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,800 Lady Isabella, I love it. 43 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,400 So let's start a little bit with the We Are Power. 44 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:48,400 So just tell listeners a little bit about what it is, what it does, what the dream is. 45 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,800 Oh, gosh, all of those things. 46 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:50,800 Yeah, just that. 47 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,800 OK, episode one. 48 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,600 It all started 10 years ago now with Northern Power Women. 49 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,800 In fact, it was called Ready for Change. 50 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:05,400 I was up and down on trains, back and forth on the West Coast Main Line to that low London town, 51 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,800 working in and around gender equality, social impact. 52 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:15,600 And just one day I thought, well, what would happen if instead of slapping down here week in, week out, 53 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,000 which I really enjoyed and built a really great community, 54 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,600 setting up 10x white, all women and ultimately gathering fantastic people. 55 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:29,400 But knowing in my heart that the North is full of fantastic humans and organisations 56 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,400 and causes and trailblazers and everything in between, 57 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,800 what would happen if we shone a light? 58 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,800 And it was around the time of the whole Northern Powerhouse, 59 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,600 if you like, umbrella movement and campaign. 60 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,000 And I thought, what would happen? 61 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,800 So I thought, right, you know what, I'm going to have a look at this because I was a bit impatient 62 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:53,200 and maybe a bit sick of the travel too, but wanted to really spotlight. 63 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,200 And so I created this event called Women Inspiring the Economy. 64 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,600 It was during a big festival that was happening in Liverpool. 65 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:05,200 And I thought, wow, this is amazing, like 250 people there, 66 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,200 all levels, all backgrounds, all stories, all genders, really important. 67 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,600 And I couldn't let it lie because there's some things that happened at that 68 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,400 that made me believe that there was more that we could really influence and do. 69 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,200 Gathering people in one room for one day is not going to change the world, 70 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,400 but what would happen if we put momentum behind it? 71 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,800 And so I created a movement called Ready for Change, 72 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,400 hashtag Northern Power Women. 73 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,400 And as I was building up to the launch of it, a friend of mine went, 74 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,800 Simone, you've got two brands here, Northern Power Women, Ready for Change. 75 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,200 What's going on? 76 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,800 And I went, well, I don't really want to put women in the title 77 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,800 because I don't want to exclude women who don't really think this is for them 78 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:47,800 or men, which are equally important to this wider gender inclusion conversation. 79 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,600 Anyway, I did, I changed the brand. 80 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:54,600 Northern Power Women started, launched, 300 people and just kind of took off from there 81 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,800 and as it's galloped over the years, we've galloped now 120,000 people in a community. 82 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,600 It's a community that is pan-North, pan-global really. 83 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,800 We've got, once you're a Northern Power Woman, you're always a Northern Power Woman. 84 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,200 Northern Power Women has transformed to what we are now. 85 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,800 We are power, which encompasses our power collective movement, 86 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:19,400 which is all around that connectivity between amazing people and emerging talent. 87 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,600 So whether it's people in college, university, 88 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:27,000 early careers, we've got constant people that we enable to pass on their skills and knowledge. 89 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,800 And then the Northern Power Women Awards, which is now in its ninth year, 90 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:36,600 so big 10 years next year, largest event celebrating gender equality in Europe, 91 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:44,600 a thousand people, 1600 nominations, 72 judges, 120 finalists, game changers. 92 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,600 And for me, the Northern Power Women Awards is that huge, 93 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:53,600 if you like, pool and sort of celebration of role models, which is the core of everything. 94 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,600 So the core of everything about We Are Power, which is driving that change, 95 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:04,600 creating that movement to accelerate and impact gender equality, social value, social impact 96 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,600 and wider inclusion is all done through that We Are Power umbrella. 97 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,600 So whether you're a big organization that wants to partner with us, 98 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,600 whether you're an individual who wants to give back, 99 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,600 whether you're somebody who needs help, whether you're a big organization 100 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,600 who needs help, we've created that movement to be able to create that, 101 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,600 I suppose, that transition of knowledge and that transfer of information 102 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:31,600 between individuals and equally to showcase, recognize and celebrate role models. 103 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:36,600 It's so multifaceted as well, because you're talking about there's loads of networking going on, 104 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,600 there's campaigning going on, there's mentoring going on. 105 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:46,600 And then the awards are obviously celebrating and emphasizing all of the role models that are out there. 106 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,600 Presumably they're from diverse worlds, diverse organizations and sectors. 107 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,600 You've got all sorts of women there, haven't you? 108 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,600 For me, it's storyteller. 109 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,600 I mentioned sort of earlier is when I was down in London, a friend and I, 110 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,600 we co-founded TEDx Whitehall Women, because often around the gender equality, 111 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,600 what I found right in those early days is people would stay in their lane. 112 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:11,600 So hospitality sector, let's corral all women in hospitality there or banking and finance over here. 113 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,600 And I wanted to kind of do that cross-sector learning, if you like. 114 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,600 The TED Talks enabled me to reach people from different communities, 115 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,600 different backgrounds and give that platform on a stage. 116 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,600 So I think that has sort of stayed with me. 117 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:29,600 That's constantly stayed with me, that way that we can influence and lobby with a small L 118 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:34,600 and engage and influence and all that kind of stuff through that power of using your voice 119 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,600 and using your power for good, if you like. 120 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,600 And it's leaning into the emotion of why we work and what we want to achieve in our work, isn't it? 121 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:46,600 It's making me think of a few kind of women's business conferences that I've attended 122 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,600 and spoken at over the years as a psychologist. 123 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,600 And when I think back to them, they were all, they were lovely and very friendly, 124 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,600 but it was all quite serious, really. 125 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:01,600 It was all very corporate and professional and almost like in order to make our stamp on the world, 126 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,600 we have to behave a certain way, appear a certain way. 127 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:09,600 And I think for women, sometimes it's trying to make yourself seem less emotional. 128 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:16,600 And what's really lovely about what you're talking about is you're bringing all of these just emotions into it. 129 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:21,600 I did a great event on a warship back to the Navy with an Admiral and she's amazing. 130 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:27,600 And one of the real takeaways from that, that the audience had, and we had people from all walks of life, 131 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:32,600 from students to the ship's crew to people at the start of their careers, middle of their careers, 132 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,600 senior careers and everything else. And it was that vulnerability. 133 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,600 And I think if we can create and enable conversations where, again, 134 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:47,600 we're encouraging people to be themselves, then we're not putting this sugar-coated thing on. 135 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,600 So it's not everything has to be happy. 136 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:57,600 But if we can create those honest environments, then other people could go, oh my God, it's not all perfectly painted. 137 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,600 But actually that makes me believe I can. 138 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,600 So was the Admiral, was she quite vulnerable then in terms of help? 139 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:08,600 Yeah, really talking in a positive, great, amazing leader, 140 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,600 but also talking about some of the things that don't go right. 141 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:16,600 Because not every, sometimes people say, you see people at the top, first female Admiral, 142 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:21,600 or the first chief exec in this sector, or the first leader over here. 143 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:27,600 You see this and you, I think if you don't know, you can automatically assume that they've had it all. 144 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:33,600 They've had that one straight line trajectory and it's all paved. 145 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,600 The path was paved. It was laid out. 146 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:41,600 And I think it's really good to show those vulnerabilities and the fact that nothing's paved with gold. 147 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:46,600 There's no silver teaspoon. And people have had their setbacks. 148 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:53,600 And I think when you do that, it makes you realise that, oh my God, actually they're not all okay. 149 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,600 Yeah, it's really important, isn't it? 150 00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:00,600 I think that's one of my motivations for doing this podcast this way, looking at career journeys. 151 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,600 Because what I've observed, obviously as a psychologist, you get to hear that inner vulnerability, 152 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,600 the things that your clients are worried about or the obstacles they're struggling with. 153 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:13,600 And they might be a managing director, chief exec, or a senior leader. 154 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,600 And you get to see that that's all real. 155 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:21,600 That's all going on, no matter how competent, capable, successful you look outside. 156 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,600 And I think that's really important for us to recognise that no one's the finished article. 157 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,600 And nobody got to where they are now being that way the whole time. 158 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:36,600 It was a journey and they fell over along the way and they were upset along the way and they felt deflated along the way. 159 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,600 But it's something about the persistence, isn't it? 160 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,600 Oh my goodness, everything comes to she who waits, I think. 161 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:49,600 I think sometimes it's something that I will go by because you'll go, oh, wow, you know? 162 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,600 So take us back then to you. 163 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:56,600 So if we ask about Simone, when you were in maybe your late teens, early 20s, 164 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,600 what were you hoping your career might be like at that point? 165 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:00,600 Not a clue. 166 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,600 Well, no, to be honest, no, 20s, I was already in the Navy. 167 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:09,600 So I had, but in my kind of growing up years, wanted to be a vet because I'd read James Herriot. 168 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,600 Love that book, one of my favourite books. 169 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,600 Realised, oh my God, I'm not good at theology, so maybe not. 170 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,600 And also only wanted to work with animals that I really liked. 171 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,600 So, you know, there was no way I could just be a vet of dogs, dogs and dogs and horses. 172 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,600 Wasn't going to, and guinea pigs, wasn't going to happen. 173 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,600 A hostess, as they were called in the day, absolutely, 100 per cent, wanted to do that, 174 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,600 like to travel, you know, always thought I could do the directions very well. 175 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,600 You know, anyway, too short. Forget that one. 176 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,600 Anyway, no good for me. 177 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,600 Didn't know, genuinely didn't know. 178 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:48,600 And then one day in college, careers for, you know, the typical leaflet kind of handy out thing. 179 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,600 And the REF were there actually. 180 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,600 And I went and I found myself thinking, oh, that could be interesting. 181 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,600 Went and did the exams, passed the tests. 182 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,600 But there's just something, I don't know, didn't feel like a fit. 183 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,600 I took myself round to the Royal Navy. 184 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,600 I think I went to, I had to go to a phone box to do 192 to find out where it was. 185 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:09,600 Crazy. 186 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,600 Anyway, I marched myself round. 187 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,600 I went in and I know it was a matter of Chief Petty Officer George Comptis. 188 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,600 He took the mickey out of me. 189 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,600 And it's interesting because we sway away from banter now. 190 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,600 But I actually still believe that good banter is good. 191 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,600 I think that's, you know, or let's give it another label or a name. 192 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,600 But I felt welcomed. 193 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:36,600 I felt like this could be the adventure that I was maybe looking for because I didn't want the nine to five. 194 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,600 Basically went off during the Navy and it was in the days before women went to sea. 195 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,600 So how old were you then when you joined? 196 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,600 I just turned 18. 197 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:44,600 I loved it. 198 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,600 I always say it was the best thing I ever did. 199 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:47,600 So off I went. 200 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,600 It was the 80s, right? 201 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,600 I had big hair. 202 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,600 Yes, I bet. 203 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:53,600 Massively big hair. 204 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,600 And I had that, I suppose, that fear of not being good enough. 205 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,600 But 18 months in, sadly, my dad died. 206 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:01,600 Quite short. 207 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,600 You know, thought it was an ulcer, stomach cancer, all awful. 208 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,600 And the Navy were great. 209 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,600 They sent me to the careers office in Liverpool to work. 210 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,600 George Computus was their chief petty officer. 211 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,600 And they sent me there to work for five months in the end. 212 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,600 You know, my mom was only just turned 39, 40, something like that. 213 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,600 And you're an only child. 214 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,600 You know, I'm 20 years old. 215 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,600 But obviously, I'm in the Navy now. 216 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,600 I've got a role and it was my identity. 217 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:30,600 I loved it. 218 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:35,600 And so I was still able, I could have just gone off on leave, but I was still able to go to work every day. 219 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:41,600 But in that period of time while I was there, this always sounds a bit strange when you're kind of grieving. 220 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:49,600 But because I could be my whole self, I got to go to visit schools with what was called the Royal Navy presentation team. 221 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,600 So I got to go out and visit the schools. 222 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:52,600 I love that. 223 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:58,600 And I think it took me a long time to realize one of the reasons I do what I do now was because of those visits. 224 00:13:58,600 --> 00:13:59,600 And it was fun. 225 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:08,600 I remember thinking, God, what a great, I opened my eyes to how to educate with people that were probably only, what, four years younger than me, three years younger than me. 226 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,600 What you now call a relatable role model, right? 227 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:12,600 Yes. 228 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,600 And I never thought that because we never used any of those words in those days. 229 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,600 But you knew you were enjoying it. 230 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,600 There was something quite memorable about that experience. 231 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,600 There was something about that that made me go, oh, my goodness. 232 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,600 And two people joined from that whole period I had going out to the schools. 233 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:28,600 And then I always remember that. 234 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,600 I always wish I wish Facebook had been around at that time to know where they are. 235 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:32,600 They probably hate me. 236 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,600 They probably like, what did you get me into? 237 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:35,600 But, you know, I remember I remember that. 238 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:36,600 I love that. 239 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:46,600 And then I went back and then working at this crazy base during the Cold War is then in the middle of a park living out in London, literally living my best life. 240 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:47,600 It was loving it. 241 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,600 And then my boss at the time said, I think you should go and be an officer. 242 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,600 And I went, I don't think they let short northerners with big hair do that. 243 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:55,600 You know, I'm not sure it's that. 244 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:56,600 I don't think. 245 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,600 And again, it's that whole thing. 246 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,600 What would you now call a sponsor? 247 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,600 Someone who went, I've got your back. 248 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,600 I will advocate for you. 249 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:07,600 And I did. 250 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:08,600 And I went off. 251 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,600 And by this point, women could go to sea. 252 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,600 So I went off to see and drove warships, I suppose. 253 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,600 So, you know, and for me, it was the ultimate adventure. 254 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,600 My goodness, I got the adventure that I signed up to plus then some specialized to air traffic control. 255 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,600 And so I went to be an air traffic controller within the Navy. 256 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,600 And then I got to a point where I was like, you know what? 257 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,600 I'm done. I'm 25. 258 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,600 I want another career. 259 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:37,600 I want another career before I'm too old to have one, because if I hadn't have left then, it would have been another five years. 260 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,600 I love that you thought at 25, I need to get out now before I'm too old to have a second career. 261 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,600 It's weird. It was a weird thing. 262 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,600 But that was my mindset. 263 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:59,600 Yes, there's a whole concept in psychology that we don't really know ourselves until the day we die, because we haven't done the things we're going to do or experience the things that teach us about ourselves until the end of the story, which makes sense, doesn't it? 264 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:14,600 But I think there is something there about as we go through life, we are constantly honing that understanding of who we are, what we enjoy, what makes us happy, what we struggle with, what's really valuable and important to us. 265 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:20,600 And the fact that we are all different, I think there's that whole idea that, oh, everyone's the same as me. 266 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,600 We're all we're all fall into this normal. 267 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:38,600 I think that that idea of diversity and difference and that whole paradigm shift is brilliant from a psychological point of view, because I think when we were young, the idea that we're all the same was kind of an accepted philosophy, really. 268 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:47,600 And then that makes you feel a bit embarrassed about the fact that you can't do the same things as your friends or you're not as bright as some of your fellow students or, you know, your qualities are different. 269 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,600 And that makes you feel a bit awkward in your own skin. 270 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:57,600 And actually, I'm hoping the next generation of youngsters won't grow up with that same chip on their shoulder. 271 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,600 But so many questions about what you talked about. 272 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:10,600 The first thing that struck me was that that was he an officer, the guy in the Navy that said you should be an officer. So what did he see in you, do you think, looking back? 273 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:19,600 What was he observing that made him go, oh, you could actually be a leader of people, not just a doer of tasks? 274 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,600 Do you know what? I've never been asked that. I'm not sure, if I'm honest. 275 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:29,600 So I always let in every opportunity I'm in, I'm taking the opportunity, I'll take responsibility, ownership. 276 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:34,600 The one thing I think you learn in the Navy is not just your role or your job, but you always have multiple jobs. 277 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:39,600 You always have additional responsibilities. And I would always just get involved. 278 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:44,600 You know, I always I hone those skills that connecting and organizing. 279 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:52,600 I think what's interesting is with the base we were at at the time, it was a military and civilian cooperation, civil service and military. 280 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:58,600 So I think the navigation, excuse the pun, but the navigation between the different stakeholders. 281 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:04,600 And I think I was always pretty good at that because it's easy sometimes in a uniform service to talk a certain language. 282 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:11,600 But we're not all the same. Not every sailor or officer or army or air force. 283 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:16,600 We're not the same, you know, just because you're in the military, you don't all just because you're in the Navy, you're not all the same. 284 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:23,600 So I think there was something in I was ability to talk. It's almost talk different languages. Yes. If you like. 285 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,600 So I think there was something in that and it was just always the I would always go. Yeah, I can. 286 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:35,600 I think maybe it's the positivity as well. Yeah, positivity, good communication skills, adaptable communication skills. 287 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:40,600 Yeah, it's interesting when I worked with the police, one of the things we always looked for in a good police officer. 288 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,600 One of the priorities was their ability to change their communication style. 289 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,600 Obviously, they can be in court giving evidence one day and then they can be arresting someone with second language English the next. 290 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:55,600 So that ability to flex was really critical. So that's what I'm hearing in that. 291 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:02,600 Yeah, it's interesting back to the Navy. We did you did you did foresee that this would be a bit of Navy conversation. 292 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:09,600 But there's the role of a chaplain in the Royal Navy. When you talk to a chaplain, when a chaplain talks with you, he takes on your rank. 293 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:16,600 So the chaplain, he has the best job, right? But so if he's in the officer's mess, he talks at the level of an officer to the captain. 294 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:22,600 If he's talking to a junior sailor, the same. So you talk, you adopt the same rank as the person. 295 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:27,600 So there's no hierarchy in it. I always thought that was amazing. I really respected that. 296 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:34,600 And actually, what I saw then was a peace broker, a fundmaker, a listener. 297 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:39,600 So I think I wonder whether there's something for me to reflect on there. But I think there's something there was something in that. 298 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:45,600 I always admired how that chaplain could go from here to here, exactly as you just say about the police. 299 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:57,600 Yes, dealing with something that is so a bereaved victim one day to, you know, to give evidence in court and be cross examined by a highly educated barrister and holding their own. 300 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,600 So that ability. Yeah, you're right. And that's lovely, isn't it? 301 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:07,600 The chaplain that the level of empathy that must be going on there in that individual and also the ability to show and build respect. 302 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,600 You're talking to the captain and you as a chaplain have got to be respected. 303 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:23,600 You're talking to the more junior members or in age or rank and you're having to be relatable and someone that they feel comfortable to talk to because that's your role to let them talk to you. 304 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,600 Yeah, there's some real skill going on there. 305 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:32,600 There was the positivity that you were talking about the communication skills, but also the leaning in the can do, will do attitude. 306 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,600 Yeah, and you can come to that. 307 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:41,600 You can completely see as a more senior person, I think anyone who's in a leadership role in an organization spots that. 308 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:48,600 So the other thing that I was wondering about. So being a female in the military in the 80s with your big hair. 309 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,600 What were the did you face any challenges, any obstacles? 310 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:56,600 Did were you conscious of being a woman? Absolutely not. And do you know what? 311 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:04,600 Is it romantic to kind of reflect? You know, but I think I always said, you know, I was never treated differently for being a woman, but I was for being northern. 312 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,600 So this was an era where there were no accents on telly. 313 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,600 There was no Stephen McGoverns and Alex Jones. 314 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,600 It was all BBC English back in those days and the officer status was I thought was the same. 315 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:23,600 But I remember getting sent a memo going officer cadet Roche, please report to the quarter deck. 316 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:29,600 Okay, I'll go down with my piece of paper for ECT, effective communication technique, elocution. 317 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,600 I was furious because they gauge that on my postcode. 318 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:39,600 My postcode was a Lancashire postcode at the time, which is where I was living when I joined the military. 319 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,600 And that that for me was almost like a go. 320 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,600 Yeah, come on. You know, and then I went to you angry. 321 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,600 Yeah, it made me frustrated. 322 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,600 It made me sad because I'd already been in the Navy for a period of time. 323 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,600 They'd made a judgment based on a postcode and I got them. 324 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,600 They're like, oh, my God, you're okay. Your accent's fine. 325 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,600 I'm like, oh, my goodness. 326 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,600 And that thankfully has all gone and changed now. 327 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,600 But at that time, that was that was the frustration moment for me. 328 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:16,600 But from a female perspective, like I say, is it romantic because actually I was disadvantaged because I couldn't go to sea. 329 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,600 But I knew the rules of games when I joined and you couldn't go to sea. 330 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,600 But then I was part of the in the change. 331 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,600 But what I like hearing about that is and I'm hearing this in quite a few of the women that I'm interviewing is this. 332 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,600 Don't put me in a box. Don't tell me I need to change who I am or what I am. 333 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,600 And I'm imagining there's a fair few people who, you know, you join the Navy. 334 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:42,600 The officers all speak a certain way. You know, you can hear that Queen's English going on, particularly in the Navy. 335 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,600 Yes. Senior service. Senior service. 336 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:53,600 Absolutely. And and then you're taken along and told, right, we're going to teach you to speak in a way that and you can imagine a lot of people going, oh, OK. 337 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,600 Well, well, that's obviously important to the organization. 338 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:02,600 It's important to my career. Whereas you're there going, ha, actually, dare you? 339 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:07,600 But I was very compliant, but they realized straight away, oh, gosh, you're fine. And I'm like, oh, wow. 340 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,600 Yeah, that's crazy. But these are little little signals, aren't they? 341 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,600 Things that are feeding your passion and your mission. 342 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,600 Now, these are little seedlings, little planted things of. 343 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,600 Yeah, it wasn't the female element that made me different. 344 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,600 And that wasn't the diversity I found as an obstacle. 345 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:31,600 It was the fact I was from the north that people put a stereotype on you, maybe, or a judgment on you. 346 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,600 Because of where you were born. Absolutely. 347 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,600 And I think you said earlier, you know, we all got put into a box and the normal. 348 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,600 You're you're all the same. Yeah. 349 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,600 I think, oh, no, I love being I love not being the same. 350 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,600 I like not being normal kind of thing. 351 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,600 And I think that was always keen for me. 352 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,600 And I think that was one of the key things when I left the military. 353 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,600 I found initially I thought this is actually quite hard. 354 00:23:52,600 --> 00:24:00,600 I had to reframe what I was looking for and what I wanted to do, because employers and agencies that I spoke to, I thought I'd get a job easier. 355 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,600 I was an officer in the Navy. You know, I've done all this stuff. 356 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:10,600 No, no, you I'm in a military box now that says you can only follow instructions and you can't work on on your own, you know, sort of volition. 357 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:23,600 That was a judgment made by, if you like, the corporate world, which is so different to what goes on in those military environments where there's so much education about how to lead, how to communicate and all those things. 358 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:34,600 You know that embracing your own difference, wanting to be different, was that always in your character or was that something that evolved as a result of your experiences in the workplace? 359 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,600 Do you think I was shy as a kid growing up? 360 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,600 You know, I came from only child, but really extended family. 361 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,600 So we always did stuff together. 362 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,600 So I was always very self-sufficient, independent, I think. 363 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:50,600 I definitely grew my confidence and belief during the Navy without a shadow of a doubt. 364 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:51,600 I definitely found my home. 365 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,600 Learning that it didn't matter how tight the sheets were to bounce the coin off. 366 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,600 That wasn't the that wasn't the ask. 367 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:03,600 The ask was following an instruction so that in the point of a critical situation, you would know what to do. 368 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:11,600 But equally outside of those lines, there's lots of blurring because you need your own initiative and your own ability to to lead, make decisions and stuff like so. 369 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:12,600 I like the difference of it all. 370 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:19,600 I like the diversity of that whole training and activity and opportunity. 371 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:24,600 And that what I didn't let that go is out of training and into my different jobs. 372 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,600 Every opportunity I said yes to. 373 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:27,600 You can do stuff you love. 374 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:38,600 And I know that's hard because right now we're you know, this cost of living crisis, we're having to make decisions about what we do and what we don't do and money and our lives. 375 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:44,600 But for that, absolutely that period in my life, I realized that I could do stuff outside. 376 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,600 It was well, to be honest, it was 24-7 job really. 377 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,600 But I never saw it like that. 378 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:50,600 I didn't know any different, did I? 379 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:51,600 I didn't know what a nine to five was. 380 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:57,600 So for me, just doing everything and taking these opportunities was amazing. 381 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,600 Just being really open to experiences. 382 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:01,600 Yeah. Yeah. 383 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:02,600 Just throwing yourself into everything. 384 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:03,600 Oh my goodness. 385 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:04,600 Off sailing, off this. 386 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:09,600 You know, sat on the stage on Easter Sunday with the Pope, for goodness sake. 387 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,600 You know, like some of this stuff you go, it's some of this like pinch me moments. 388 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,600 Like, you know, you don't get that when you join the Navy in your toolkit, you know, and your opportunities taskbook. 389 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:20,600 But you they're there. 390 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,600 There are opportunities there to do amazing things. 391 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,600 Say yes, work it out. 392 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:26,600 And that's part of who you are, isn't it? 393 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:35,600 Because we were just talking before we started recording and I was saying I was going to Tarragona for my summer holiday and you were saying you did what's it called? 394 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:36,600 Castells. 395 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:37,600 Castells. 396 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,600 These are like human towers, aren't they? 397 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:47,600 Where basically you get as high as you can with the little kids on the top. So if anyone who's been to Catalonia will probably have seen these going on. 398 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,600 But this is your so here you are now. 399 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:50,600 You're a successful entrepreneur. 400 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:51,600 You run your own business. 401 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,600 You've got one hundred and a thousand women in your community. 402 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,600 You've got an MBE and you're throwing yourself into building a human tower. 403 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:03,600 So there's obviously something about you that's very adventure seeking, experience seeking, isn't there? 404 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,600 I found myself in Tarragona. 405 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,600 My husband had been had had had a couple of lots of cancer. 406 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,600 And so we took a break. 407 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:19,600 We ended up in Tarragona, ended up coming across someone I'd met 10 years ago, introduced me to the world of Castells. 408 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,600 We knew the Dutch human towers in Tarragona. 409 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:22,600 So we go in and watched. 410 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,600 And then lo and behold, I am now a Castellera, which is Catalan. 411 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:27,600 But I am a Castellera. 412 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,600 I am the only British Castellera in the team. 413 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:33,600 It's phenomenal. 414 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,600 But yes, I am. I think I have that affliction of being an all in girl. 415 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,600 I can't just go skirt around the edges. 416 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:40,600 I'm literally all in. 417 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:47,600 And that includes when we're there, Tuesday night training, Friday night training and a show of a weekend. 418 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,600 So summertime is a busy time for me. 419 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,600 I spend a lot of time under men's armpits. 420 00:27:52,600 --> 00:28:02,600 Spend a lot of time is the as it is quite it's I spent a lot of time thinking in that space because it is Catalan and I can get I can do good Spanish. 421 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,600 But I'm my Catalan is now something a work in progress or something else. 422 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,600 I'm saying yes to and learning. 423 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:19,600 But there's something about learning this this new space where often I'm not seen or heard because my language is not as is new into the new language. 424 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,600 And they are it's a very strategic four or five, six hundred people. 425 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,600 And I'm one of the people you have to follow instruction. 426 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:27,600 You've got a nap tells you where to be. 427 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,600 It's proper like Pep Guardiola like, you know, up style. 428 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:33,600 It's really because it's serious. 429 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,600 Someone falls and they're in a back brace kind of thing. 430 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,600 But there's something quite about lifting, holding people up. 431 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:41,600 There's something metaphoric. 432 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,600 Yeah, there's something really about that. 433 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,600 But yeah, it's something that is my my current my current world. 434 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:49,600 I love it. 435 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,600 You know, and what have I done since I joined the team? 436 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,600 I've you know, you have to earn your shirt. 437 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,600 You have to do so many twenty five practices and 14 shows before you get a shirt. 438 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,600 And then they give it out in this big ceremony. 439 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:01,600 I was crying my eyes out. 440 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,600 I was like, oh, my God, this is like so amazing. 441 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:05,600 It's like passing out the Navy. 442 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,600 It was that because I put that much into it. 443 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,600 Various bits of research over the years done into entrepreneurs. 444 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:22,600 The thing that is their drive, you know, from the outside, it might look like their driver is no money and, you know, a wonderful lifestyle and all of the power and status that comes with being, you know, 445 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:28,600 a successful business leader in actual fact, their intrinsic motivation is a need for achievement. 446 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,600 They just want to achieve something. 447 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,600 They want to be able to say I did dot dot dot. 448 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:39,600 And that might be I did change the world or it might be I did hold up a human tower. 449 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:40,600 It doesn't matter. 450 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:41,600 The achievement is the achievement. 451 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,600 And you can see that motivator running through everything you've done, can't you? 452 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:52,600 So what have you learned working with this community of female leaders and their allies? 453 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:59,600 What have you learned is important for people, male or female, to be doing in order to live their best life? 454 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,600 I think always ask for help. 455 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,600 I think, you know, I think asking for help is irrespective. 456 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:10,600 I think of me just dropping into the WhatsApp group the other week and I didn't ask for help, but it was just I think I did. 457 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:11,600 I must have given a signal out. 458 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:12,600 I don't do that very often. 459 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:18,600 I think you have to be people want to support people, want to impart their own knowledge. 460 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:24,600 You know, people want you to people don't want you to make mistakes that they've made on the whole. 461 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,600 You know, we're not talking about the can't can vouch for 100 percent of people here, can we? 462 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:35,600 You know, the sense for me is creating a community where people can give or gain like a swap shop, you know, that swap shop of knowledge, that swap shop. 463 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:42,600 It's as simple as that for me and creating those environments where we can come together and create. 464 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:49,600 I always believe if we bring people together in the right space with the right energy, with the right connection, communication, magic will happen. 465 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,600 And that sounds that sounds does that sound fluffy? 466 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,600 No, because I've seen it. It happens year in, year out. 467 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,600 I got an email this week. 468 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,600 Your winner, one of your winners last year has changed my life. 469 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:06,600 You know, she wasn't at the awards or anything, but she saw and followed what was going on. 470 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,600 And that woman I was having a really awful time. 471 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:17,600 And the woman, Deborah, Deborah Lawson, I'm going to shout her out, disability advocate, won our person with purpose. 472 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,600 And I reached out to her. She spent hundreds of hours with me helping supporting. 473 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,600 I'm no longer no longer on the edge. I now want to pass that on. 474 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:34,600 And I think there's that infectious kind of if I do something good or I receive the benefit of that, I can't help but do something good. 475 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:39,600 And it is interesting. The awards. People think about awards being one night and a dinner and lovely. 476 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:46,600 Fantastic. But there's an element when someone gets nominated, we find statistically the first thing that they do is go and nominate someone else. 477 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,600 Yeah. So I think there's that I think it's making space for other people. 478 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:56,600 I think it is that positive collaborative space. And then I find it empowers and enables people. 479 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,600 Yes. And there's something kind of validating going on, isn't it? 480 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:08,600 Because I think what I observe with a lot of very really high potential, very capable people is that inner critic is just too harsh. 481 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:17,600 Yes. And so to be in an environment where other people around you are going, we believe in you or we see you or we think what you're doing is amazing. 482 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,600 But actually, could you help me? Because you do something that I have no idea how to do. 483 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:29,600 And that quietens down that inner critic, doesn't it? So it's like a gift we can give to people who might be sitting at home on a night going, oh, what am I doing with my life? 484 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,600 Why? Why am I in this? I'm not good enough. I'm making a fool of myself. 485 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,600 All of those that nonsense people have like bouncing around their brains. 486 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,600 And this is lovely because it's all about that positive reinforcement. I mean, don't get me wrong. 487 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,600 I've had some clients in the past that have said, oh, you're just too positive and fluffy Leona. 488 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,600 Oh, no, I'm not saying that you shouldn't give constructive feedback. 489 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:56,600 If I'm doing something that's having a negative impact or a deficient impact, please tell me because that's how I get better. 490 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:03,600 However, don't only tell me that. And in fact, that needs to be a smaller percentage of what you tell me than the things where you go. 491 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,600 The way you handle that conversation was really calm and really considered. 492 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:13,600 That was lovely to watch. Or the way that you built energy in that room with your enthusiasm and your humor was wonderful. 493 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,600 And you infected, you know, that's the stuff people need to hear. 494 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,600 So they go, oh, that's what people value about me. That's the positive impact I can have. 495 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:27,600 That's where my skills lie. And it sounds like you're creating a community that's about that. 496 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,600 How do women who are listening to this get involved in this? 497 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,600 We are power.net. We have a digital hub that has a weekly podcast. 498 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,600 We have monthly webinars. We have monthly speed mentoring events. 499 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,600 The whole idea is you can go and search for help, support or offers of help. 500 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,600 Yeah. So it's all there to get involved. You've got the awards. 501 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,600 Think about who you're going to nominate or nominate yourself. All about that. 502 00:33:51,600 --> 00:34:00,600 Yeah. And maybe to lean in. Even if you think, oh, maybe this is not for me or maybe, you know, I'm not part of this or worthy of this. 503 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,600 Lean in and have a go. Just lean in and have a go and just see what happens. Do it for three months. See what happens. 504 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:14,600 And I think that's often the thing with what your role modelling and what you're talking about in your career is throw yourself into experiences. 505 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,600 Understand what makes you happy. Understand what you're good at. 506 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,600 So it sounds to me like you've always been good with people and building relationships. 507 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:32,600 That you embraced your northernness. We were talking about when you were renovating your boat and you were actually renting one in London and you were going and knocking and asking for advice. 508 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,600 And people, the southern people were a bit taken aback and you had to say, but I'm a northerner. 509 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:42,600 And you're like, oh, OK, yeah, you're chatting and you're going to come and interrupt my private time. 510 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,600 It's a fast track car. Oh, I get it now. 511 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:49,600 So building relationships, building communities, being very people orientated. 512 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,600 That's obviously something that's a skill of yours. 513 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,600 And then that builds into that makes you better at communication because you're paying attention to people. 514 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,600 I think that's almost like a cause and effect thing going on, isn't it? 515 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:07,600 But then that that's leaning into things, saying yes, such great advice. 516 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:17,600 But I suppose the overriding thing that's striking me is that all of those experiences you've had in life, you've then drawn them together to do something really meaningful. 517 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,600 So you said being a Castel. Yes. Yes. 518 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,600 You're lifting people up. 519 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,600 And that's just a metaphor for everything you're doing, isn't it? 520 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,600 And we are power. You are lifting people up. 521 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,600 Yeah, female. It was obviously meant to come by my life, wasn't it? 522 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:42,600 It was obviously meant to be there, but tracks back to start in a conversation with a Tarragona guy in Geneva as part of a TED conference 11 years ago. 523 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,600 It's crazy. You never know where those conversations will lead. 524 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:50,600 I think that's something I would always say was never be afraid to kind of lean into that conversation. 525 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:56,600 So whether or not you're attending a networking event, you're looking for someone on the platform, you never know where that conversation is going to go. 526 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:04,600 I think if you're intentional with that conversation, if your conversation is two way, yes, you know, and by all means, absolutely ask for help. 527 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,600 But I think if that intention is there, you never know where it's going to lead. 528 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:13,600 And it's when I find out about those in in months and years later, I've got massive FOMO. 529 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,600 I'm like, I don't know. That happened. 530 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:20,600 And I always feel like that. Absolutely. I wasn't in the room like Silla Black bringing people together. 531 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,600 But there is an element of what have we enabled through this community? 532 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,600 Yeah. And that's what I'm always super proud of. 533 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,600 And that's what I want to. That's how it has to continue to go. 534 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:37,600 That's what has to be the ongoing legacy is, you know, irrespective of what technology happens in our world, what awful things happen in our world also. 535 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:43,600 And changing times as we see constantly, people will always be a factor. 536 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:52,600 And I think if we can harness the power and I think you talk, you mentioned power earlier, I think our intention is always about using that power for good. 537 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,600 If you look at the word power, we is in the middle and that is intentional. 538 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:02,600 So when we, if you like, moved into the brand of we are power, it was about we. 539 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:08,600 We are in the center of this and we all have an opportunity to do something for someone else or ourselves. 540 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,600 But we have to it's about using that power for good. 541 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:20,600 So as a final thing, I wanted to know if you could go back to that younger Simone before you started on this career, maybe pre-Navy, 542 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:25,600 what would you whisper in her ear? Would you tell her any advice you wish you'd known? 543 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:33,600 I think it is don't worry about having it all mapped out. Don't worry about knowing all the answers. 544 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,600 Don't worry that you don't know because you don't know what you don't know. 545 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,600 It's all OK. You know, say yes to those opportunities. 546 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,600 I say it's never too early to start building a network. 547 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:53,600 And people think of network as chucking business cards out and LinkedIn connections and stuff like that. But it's never too early to build that community and build that tribe around you. 548 00:37:53,600 --> 00:38:03,600 Yes. Those people that you go to, you may only speak to once a year, but you know that you can drop a WhatsApp message or a DM or whatever it may be. 549 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:08,600 But yeah, don't don't worry about having it all sorted. No one's got it all sorted. 550 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,600 Yes. And be you. Be you. That's coming over. 551 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,600 Celebrate your difference. Don't worry about you ask me for one bit of advice. I'm so sorry. 552 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:23,600 It's fine. I wasn't expecting one piece of advice. I've all hyphenated it in a big paragraph. 553 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,600 But yes, so celebrate your own difference. Don't worry about not having a plan. 554 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:32,600 Ask for help when you need help and just be open to experience. Be kind. 555 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:38,600 Be kind. What a lovely place to stop. Simone, honestly, I could just chat here all day. 556 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:45,600 It's been just absolutely wonderful. And I am certainly going to be leaning into your power because I feel quite inspired by it. 557 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:50,600 It's a wonderful thing. Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much for asking me. Brilliant. Thank you. 558 00:38:53,600 --> 00:39:01,600 Coming up in leadership journeys, I guess I haven't really spoken much about why I retired because I felt like my identity was cricket. 559 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,600 And so I was like, well, who am I if I'm not playing cricket for England? 560 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,600 I was basically getting very anxious. Anyway, I ended up breaking my thumb playing men's cricket. 561 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:37,600 I had a good eight week block in the summer with no cricket. I couldn't play and I was really happy.