1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,000
Welcome to Leadership Journeys.

2
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
I'm psychologist Leona Deakin and we are delving into the minds of successful women

3
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,000
to find out how they've achieved the things that they have.

4
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:17,000
On our last episode we heard from the lovely Dr Catherine Scott,

5
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,000
the Chief Executive Officer of Yorkshire Cancer Research.

6
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,000
She talked to us about the tireless work her and her team are doing

7
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:29,000
to raise awareness of the impact of exercise on recovering from cancer

8
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,000
but also remaining cancer free.

9
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:36,000
It's a really inspirational insight into a really fabulous leader.

10
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,000
On today's episode...

11
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,000
I took a job on a drama and the producer took me in the office and went,

12
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,000
you know good.

13
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,000
And I just burst into tears because it was a real shock.

14
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:53,000
She was another part of my life that fuelled me to think,

15
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,000
fuck you.

16
00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,000
What do you do if you have a dream

17
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,000
but the whole world tells you you're not up for it and you can't do it?

18
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,000
Well, turns out she was up for it and she could do it.

19
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,000
Today on Leadership Journeys I am talking to the wonderful Lauren York,

20
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,000
CEO of UK Locations.

21
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:27,000
This is a company that provides film, TV, advertising locations to brands,

22
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,000
broadcasters and streamers. So very glam.

23
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:35,000
So UK Locations was started by Lauren's brother-in-law, in fact, Nick Jones.

24
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,000
And when he tragically passed away, Lauren stepped in to help her sister run the business.

25
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:46,000
What started out as an offer of family support turned into quite the impressive career.

26
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,000
One Lauren never really expected but which has taught her about herself

27
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:55,000
and what it takes to succeed, even when you feel overwhelmed or out of your depth.

28
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,000
So welcome, Lauren.

29
00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,000
Thank you. Nice intro.

30
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,000
Thanks, I practiced it.

31
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,000
Love it.

32
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,000
So we're here in your office of UK Locations, which is in Leeds.

33
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:15,000
You've just been telling me about some of the wonderful locations that you host for your clients.

34
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,000
So these are like millionaires' mansions, are they not?

35
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,000
Is that what you're saying?

36
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:28,000
We do all sorts of locations, but I would say the majority of our locations are like unbelievable,

37
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:35,000
beautiful, huge mansions basically, you know, of the very high net worth people.

38
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:41,000
And it still astounds me and I'm still so thankful.

39
00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:46,000
And it's such an honor to be let into somebody's house because everyone's house is like their kingdom, isn't it?

40
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,000
Whether it's big, small, whatever it is, it's your sanctuary.

41
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,000
And when somebody is allowing you into the house, it's such an honor.

42
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:59,000
I always think that, like, it's such an honor to be able to A, go into the house, find out who they are,

43
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,000
find out their stories.

44
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,000
It's just still, I still love that part of the job.

45
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,000
So, yeah, getting into people's houses is just amazing.

46
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,000
It sounds really cool.

47
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,000
And that, I mean, we all love to have a little nosy around houses.

48
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,000
I think that's why some of those TV shows are really interesting, aren't they?

49
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:23,000
Because we like to have a little look about, see how other people live and you're getting that real high life insight.

50
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,000
And so those locations, how are they then used for your clients?

51
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,000
So are they for adverts or are they for dramas or?

52
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,000
Yeah, I mean, we work across all different client segments.

53
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,000
So we work on big dramas.

54
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,000
We work on big Netflix dramas.

55
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,000
We did Fool Me Once, which was a big Netflix drama.

56
00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,000
Yeah, that was an amazing house.

57
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,000
It was an amazing house.

58
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,000
That's one of our location partners house.

59
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,000
Absolutely amazing.

60
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,000
Yeah, so beautiful house.

61
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,000
And they used it for eight weeks, that house.

62
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,000
And we work on loads of big dramas.

63
00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,000
We work with all the streamers.

64
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,000
We work with all the broadcasters.

65
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,000
But then we also work on big photo campaigns.

66
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,000
We work on digital shoots.

67
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:12,000
Yeah, this is what I love about my job and my career as an organizational psychologist is every now and then I meet somebody

68
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,000
and they tell me about their job.

69
00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,000
And I think, I never knew that even existed as a thing.

70
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,000
Like that's such a cool thing to be involved in.

71
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,000
Yeah. And you know what?

72
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:25,000
Whenever I tell anybody what I do, they're like, wow, I cannot believe you get to do that.

73
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,000
That's so interesting.

74
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,000
I think when you're in it all the time, obviously it just becomes normal.

75
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:33,000
But sometimes when I do step away from it, I'm like, God, my job is insane.

76
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,000
Look what we get to do.

77
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,000
Look who we get to work with.

78
00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:36,000
Look what houses we get to go in.

79
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,000
It is amazing.

80
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,000
And yeah, I am really, really grateful for what I do.

81
00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,000
It's so cool.

82
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:48,000
So take us back then to you, to Lauren as a kind of late teens, early 20s.

83
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:53,000
Like what were you anticipating or hoping that you were going to do career wise?

84
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,000
Did you have a clear idea at that stage?

85
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,000
I have always known I'd work in TV.

86
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:06,000
Honestly, since I've been tiny, I remember watching TV and just thinking, wow, that how do you get in that box?

87
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,000
Because that is what I want to do.

88
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:17,000
And it never, ever went away, even throughout my teens, when the careers advisor in the library asked me what I wanted to do,

89
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,000
I said, I want to work in TV.

90
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:23,000
And they said, I'd maybe think of something different.

91
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,000
And I just thought that was the first spark.

92
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,000
And I just thought, absolutely not.

93
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,000
I'm going to prove you wrong.

94
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,000
And like I said, it never went away.

95
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,000
I went to uni and I did TV.

96
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:45,000
When I was at uni, I did loads of work placements, worked on Emmerdale, worked at Yorkshire TV loads, did loads of free work,

97
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:52,000
wrote loads of letters to loads of production companies, hundreds of letters just to see if I could do anything for free.

98
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,000
So, yeah, it's always, always been my passion.

99
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,000
It's never, ever gone away.

100
00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,000
And it sounds so determined.

101
00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:05,000
I mean, I remember, I think a lot of us can relate to that careers chat because I was told that I wasn't smart enough to be a lawyer.

102
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,000
Because I was thinking of law.

103
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,000
And then when I think of what I've done in my career, I'm like, of course I was smart enough to be a lawyer.

104
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,000
But I actually listened to them.

105
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,000
But you didn't.

106
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:23,000
So what was it about your character, do you think, that made you think, no, no, no, was it just that desire was so big?

107
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:28,000
Or was there some, is there something else about your personality that's just a bit contrary, maybe?

108
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,000
I don't know, to be honest.

109
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,000
All I do know, though, is that the desire was so big.

110
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:39,000
And I like, I'm so grateful for that because I've spoken to many people before and they didn't know what they wanted to do.

111
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,000
And I actually think that's a lot harder.

112
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,000
But I knew, I always knew, still always know, you know, it's never, ever gone away.

113
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:52,000
No matter the ups and downs of this career, I've never thought maybe I should leave doing what I want to do.

114
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,000
I've always come back to it.

115
00:06:54,000 --> 00:07:01,000
So, yeah, it's definitely just something within me and the passion of working in entertainment, basically.

116
00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,000
Yeah, and following that dream.

117
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,000
Yeah.

118
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,000
However, you did, you started well.

119
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,000
You got this work in TV.

120
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,000
You were in TV, but you didn't stay.

121
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,000
So what happened there?

122
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,000
Did something put you off?

123
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,000
So what happened was I started working in drama.

124
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,000
I worked in the location department.

125
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,000
I always thought that working in TV was going to be really creative.

126
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:29,000
And, you know, I was going to be writing scripts or, you know, that type of thing.

127
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,000
I really, you know, it was such a dream.

128
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,000
But then the reality of working in a drama wasn't what I thought.

129
00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,000
So the hours were, we were doing 18-hour days.

130
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,000
It was, I was working in location, so we were outside a lot in the cold, in the wet.

131
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,000
It was not a very nice environment.

132
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,000
When you're working in drama, it's very, very stressful.

133
00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,000
Things change all the time.

134
00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,000
There's quite a lot of blame culture.

135
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,000
Things might have changed now, but, you know, this was my experience at the time.

136
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,000
Quite a lot of bullying.

137
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,000
And I did it for three years.

138
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,000
And the other thing is not only are you working 18-hour days,

139
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,000
you tend to work six days a week.

140
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,000
So really you're only having one day off.

141
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:15,000
And I wasn't seeing any of my family.

142
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,000
I wasn't seeing my boyfriend.

143
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,000
I wasn't seeing my friends.

144
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,000
And I just thought, what is this about?

145
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,000
This is not what I expected at all.

146
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:29,000
And I remember that on one production,

147
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:34,000
the gaffer who heads up the lighting basically of the whole production,

148
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,000
took me aside and he said, Lauren, get out now.

149
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,000
He was like, you're young.

150
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,000
Get out before you get so used to this kind of money,

151
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,000
because you do get paid well.

152
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:51,000
And he said, get out while you can learn to do something different.

153
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,000
He said, this is not a great environment.

154
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,000
It's not very nice.

155
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,000
People aren't very nice.

156
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,000
So get out now.

157
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,000
And I just thought, God, I just need to listen to him and really get out.

158
00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,000
And I was feeling really sad.

159
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:08,000
And I didn't, I was obviously stressed, tired,

160
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,000
all those things that everybody else on the production was as well.

161
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,000
And so I left and I retrained.

162
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:20,000
I did a night course and I retrained in marketing.

163
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:25,000
And then I got a job at Aviva doing marketing.

164
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,000
That's quite different.

165
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:32,000
So now you're in financial services.

166
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,000
So you've gone from working in TV to basically an office job,

167
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:42,000
albeit in marketing, which is the more creative end of a corporate environment.

168
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,000
But you said there, it was sad.

169
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,000
Did you feel like, oh gosh, I chased my dream.

170
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,000
And then it just wasn't what I wanted it to be or thought it would be.

171
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,000
I really felt like I'd gone into the wrong type of TV,

172
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,000
because there are so many different versions of TV.

173
00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,000
You can work in drama, like I said, which was my experience.

174
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:05,000
You can work in factual, which is things like making a goggle box

175
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,000
where it tends to be, the hours aren't as bad.

176
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,000
It's not as intensive as drama.

177
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,000
People tend to be nicer.

178
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,000
Or you can work in TV commercials.

179
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,000
So you can be freelance.

180
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,000
There's so many different elements or you can be in script.

181
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,000
But I was in locations on drama.

182
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:29,000
So really I'd chosen probably the longest hours, the more outside, the coldest,

183
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,000
all those kind of things.

184
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,000
I'd chosen that.

185
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,000
I was sad.

186
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:39,000
But I think the straw that broke the camel's back is I took a job on a BBC drama

187
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,000
and I moved from locations into the office.

188
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,000
So they wanted a production secretary,

189
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,000
which is never something I've done.

190
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,000
And I said, I've never done this before, so I'm letting you know that.

191
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,000
I've only ever worked in locations.

192
00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,000
No, don't worry. We'll train you. We'll train you.

193
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,000
I was like, OK, well, wow, what an amazing experience.

194
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,000
And I used to travel from Leeds to Granada Studio every day,

195
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,000
so to Manchester every day. It's quite a lot.

196
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,000
And about two weeks in Shabbat, I thought, well, I don't feel like they're training me.

197
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,000
They're just telling me, could you sort these scripts out?

198
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,000
Can you book these hotels for all these actors?

199
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,000
And some are in Europe, some are in England,

200
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:23,000
and you've got to do it in line with their age and when their timings and all that kind of thing.

201
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,000
I thought, nobody's explaining how you do this to me.

202
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,000
And then I was like, right, well, just keep going, keep going.

203
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,000
And then a week later, the producer took me in the office and went, you know good.

204
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,000
And I was like, it was such a shock.

205
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,000
And she said, you know good, you're going to have to leave today.

206
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,000
And I was like, OK.

207
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,000
And I just burst into tears because it was a real shock.

208
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:51,000
And I kind of like was looking around the office at my boss,

209
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:56,000
the person that was looking after me, and she just put her head down.

210
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,000
She said, you know, you're going to have to go now, get your stuff, go.

211
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,000
And that was it, done.

212
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,000
And so I remember going outside and just crying so much.

213
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,000
I was on the phone to my boyfriend, who's now my husband,

214
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,000
and I was just telling him what had happened.

215
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,000
And I just thought, you know what, I can't be in this industry.

216
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,000
This industry is not for me.

217
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,000
You know, all these things were going through my head.

218
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,000
I'm no good. I can't do this.

219
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,000
And also, I don't want to work with these people.

220
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,000
These people are not my people at all.

221
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,000
They told me they were going to train me, didn't train me.

222
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,000
And you know what, at that point, I vowed to myself, I said, like,

223
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,000
that producer, one day I'm going to get back in touch with her

224
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,000
and I'm going to thank her for this.

225
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,000
And that's what I thought to myself.

226
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,000
I thought, I'm not going to be rude, horrible, anything like that.

227
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,000
I'm going to thank her.

228
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:50,000
And I haven't done that yet, but I have looked her up and I will do it.

229
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,000
And I'm not going to do it in any kind of horrible way.

230
00:12:53,000 --> 00:13:01,000
But she was another part of my life that fueled me to think, fuck you.

231
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,000
You know what I mean? I just thought, like, how dare you?

232
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,000
Yeah, how dare you.

233
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,000
But you know what, it had knocked me down and I thought,

234
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,000
you know what, I'm just going to try something else.

235
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,000
And then that's when I went into marketing.

236
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,000
So that's what, you know, it had gone on for a long time.

237
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,000
The gaffer had a word with me and then that thing happened.

238
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,000
And I just thought, nah, I'm not doing this.

239
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,000
Out, I'm so left.

240
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,000
And that makes me so angry because in my job as a leadership psychologist

241
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,000
coaching lots of people, staff and leaders in organizations,

242
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:35,000
when I hear these stories of managers who just say things unthinkingly

243
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:40,000
or they put pressure on people or they give them an unrealistic job preview

244
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,000
and then don't train them and then tell them they're crap.

245
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,000
It makes me angry because I'm like, you have no right.

246
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:53,000
Because this doesn't just affect that person's career, which is bad enough.

247
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,000
It potentially affects their confidence, their self-esteem,

248
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,000
their potential.

249
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:05,000
It has such an impact on how they think about themselves and what they can do.

250
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,000
And I think for you to have that, well, obviously you had good support

251
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,000
from your boyfriend, now husband, and that's always good to lean on, isn't it?

252
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,000
But that presence of mind to think I'm going to pick myself up,

253
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:22,000
brush myself off and one day, one day I'll be able to look back

254
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,000
and see this as helpful.

255
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,000
And I think that's almost the essence of resilience, isn't it?

256
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:33,000
Resilience isn't about our ability to avoid bad things happening or to avoid pain.

257
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,000
It's about how quickly we can get up again afterwards.

258
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,000
I mean, to be fair, as a producer, TV is so high-pressured.

259
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:44,000
There's so much at stake all the time.

260
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,000
I'm sure you obviously carry that experience with you.

261
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,000
And these things become like a little compass, don't they,

262
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,000
of what to do or not to do.

263
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,000
We learn so much from the people that we see that do things wrong.

264
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:02,000
And all of that experience is probably helping your leadership to evolve.

265
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,000
Yeah.

266
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,000
So you go into marketing, you're in a viva.

267
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,000
What was that like?

268
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,000
I felt stifled.

269
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,000
I felt claustrophobic.

270
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,000
I was working in pensions marketing.

271
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,000
I mean, does it get any more boring?

272
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,000
Oh my God.

273
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,000
I mean, you've gone from one extreme to another.

274
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,000
But you know what?

275
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,000
I have to say the thing that I learned about working in corporate,

276
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,000
because I went from a viva, then I went to Bradford and Bingley,

277
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:38,000
so working in corporate was amazing in the sense of I got trained really well,

278
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,000
you had good values, they looked after people.

279
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,000
I learned how to manage up.

280
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,000
I learned how to manage expectations.

281
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,000
I learned how to, you know, all the stuff that you don't learn in TV,

282
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,000
you just expected to know.

283
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,000
You know, they really, and also I learned things about professionalism,

284
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,000
processes, efficiency, all that kind of thing that honestly,

285
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:08,000
that part of my life has really, really had a massively positive effect

286
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:13,000
on my business now because I've taken the professionalism of corporate life

287
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:19,000
and I've applied it to TV where there isn't so much of that, I have to say.

288
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:24,000
So I will always be truly grateful for that time in corporate life.

289
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,000
Like I met some amazing people, learned so much stuff,

290
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:33,000
but I felt stifled and I felt like I couldn't be my true self.

291
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:38,000
I didn't feel like my opinion really countered.

292
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,000
It just didn't feel right.

293
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,000
Yes.

294
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,000
It wasn't right, but it was OK.

295
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,000
It was OK.

296
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,000
Were you aware in the moment of what you were learning

297
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,000
or has that been more of a hindsight?

298
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,000
It's been a hindsight.

299
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,000
Yeah.

300
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,000
Yeah, definitely.

301
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,000
I mean, I loved how they do, you know, a lot of corporates,

302
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,000
they really value people and they put a lot of attention on training

303
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,000
and they'll develop you.

304
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,000
And again, that doesn't happen in TV.

305
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,000
People don't have time for it because they're moving from one job to another to another.

306
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,000
So they don't have time to train you.

307
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,000
It's like, no, you just got to learn it and you just got to know it.

308
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,000
Whereas in corporate life, you know, they really want to develop you

309
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,000
and they put time and effort and everything into you

310
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,000
and they'll take time to train you.

311
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,000
And I loved that.

312
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,000
I loved that.

313
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,000
And so I did really thrive in that environment and I did well,

314
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,000
but I had a nagging feeling it just wasn't right for me.

315
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,000
I just knew.

316
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,000
There's something, isn't there, about that kind of intuition.

317
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,000
So there's a lovely piece of research by Angela Duckworth,

318
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,000
who's an American psychologist, and she did this whole thing that she termed GRIT,

319
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,000
which is an acronym.

320
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:51,000
So it's having a growth mindset, being resilient, using your intuition and being tenacious.

321
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,000
And she said being gritty is a factor in whether we succeed or not.

322
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,000
So her research is all about that achieving success.

323
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,000
But that intuitive bit that she talks about where she says,

324
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:08,000
our bodies try and tell us something and it isn't some magical insights,

325
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,000
some spiritual thing even that's coming to us.

326
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:15,000
It's usually based on the brain's prior experience and maybe its prior desires,

327
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,000
like what it really wants to be doing.

328
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,000
And it's giving you that feeling of discomfort or dissonance, you know,

329
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,000
that sort of like I'm doing well here and I'm learning things and I should be OK,

330
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,000
but why do I not feel OK?

331
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:34,000
And her advice is listen to that intuition because it is telling you something powerful.

332
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,000
You wouldn't be feeling it if there wasn't a reason.

333
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:42,000
So interrogate it and find out whether there's something there going on,

334
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,000
which presumably there was for you that you just felt this isn't really me.

335
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,000
No. And I always felt like I wanted to move on.

336
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,000
OK. I just didn't feel...

337
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,000
You didn't know how.

338
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:58,000
Yeah. And I just didn't. It just, like I said, it just didn't feel right.

339
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:03,000
Whereas the work I do now completely feels right.

340
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,000
I don't... I never question it. It never comes up ever.

341
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,000
That's powerful, isn't it?

342
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,000
Yeah. And the interesting thing is like one of my bosses from Bradford & Bingley,

343
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,000
who I adore, he was an amazing manager. Absolutely love him.

344
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,000
I'm still in contact with him now.

345
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:24,000
He was really shocked when I took over UKELLOCATIONS and made a success of it.

346
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,000
And I'm not saying that he thought that I would never make a success of stuff.

347
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,000
He just didn't see that in me when I worked there.

348
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,000
But that's because I wasn't able to show that about myself.

349
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,000
Yeah.

350
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:43,000
I wasn't able to show or couldn't be who I was fully could be, basically.

351
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,000
Because I think in corporate life, you're quite restrained.

352
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:51,000
You know, there's so much red tape, you know, there's so many silos on there.

353
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,000
It's really hard to get out of different teams.

354
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,000
You get pigeonholed really quickly.

355
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,000
Absolutely.

356
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,000
And so, you know, I don't like that.

357
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,000
And that didn't work for me.

358
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:05,000
It's interesting that Charles Handy, who was like a management writer back in the 80s,

359
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,000
he said he used like imagery to describe different cultures.

360
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,000
And the corporate environment he did is like Greek temple.

361
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,000
So he said like the triangle at the top, which is the roof,

362
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,000
that's got your board, your chief exec, your directors, your non-execs in it.

363
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,000
And then all of the columns that are holding it up are your finance, your marketing, your HR.

364
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,000
And you can't jump between those things.

365
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,000
They're, like you say, really siloed.

366
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:36,000
And then so you're really, it's really nice in a way that it's quite secure and safe

367
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,000
and really clear what your roles and responsibilities are.

368
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:48,000
But in comparison, he described a small organisation like UK Locations as more of a spider's web.

369
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:53,000
Where he's like, so basically everyone's connected and everyone's doing a bit of everything.

370
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,000
And everyone can have a go and people take risks and they have to be brave and bold

371
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,000
because they're trying something new.

372
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,000
And that was when you were describing those different environments,

373
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:07,000
like you can't test yourself in that Greek temple, can you?

374
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,000
Whereas in the spider's web, you can jump to wherever and have a go at anything

375
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,000
that you're willing to have a go at.

376
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,000
And I think, you know, corporate life suits different people, doesn't it?

377
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,000
Because some people like the safety of stuff, don't they?

378
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,000
They like to know exactly what they're doing.

379
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,000
Exactly how they get to the next stage.

380
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,000
They don't want to try different things.

381
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,000
But for me, that wasn't my vibe.

382
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,000
I didn't flourish in that situation.

383
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,000
I didn't like being restrained and I didn't, yeah.

384
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,000
And so even though you had that intuition and you knew it wasn't for you,

385
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,000
it was fate really that brought you to UK Locations.

386
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,000
Well, the thing is, I mean, after that corporate life, I went travelling.

387
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,000
I went on my own and I travelled for 10 months.

388
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,000
Oh, right. Was that to break the...

389
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,000
Yeah. To give yourself a bit of space?

390
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,000
Yeah, it was. And I was just, I knew, I remember being, again,

391
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,000
the straw that broke the camel's back as I was on this training.

392
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,000
Brad from Bingley put me on this training day in London

393
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,000
and it was some kind of management training.

394
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,000
And I was listening to it and I just thought, oh my God, I'm done.

395
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:17,000
I am done. I couldn't, I just thought, this is not, no, I've done it now.

396
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,000
This is my time. I'm out of here.

397
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:24,000
And I just thought that day I went home and I decided I'd be going travelling.

398
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:28,000
And Bradford and Bingley were making everyone redundant anyway

399
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,000
because obviously they folded.

400
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,000
And I just thought, I'm out. I'm not moving to another financial services.

401
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,000
I'm done. And then I went travelling after that.

402
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,000
Just going back, you told me that while you were working in TV,

403
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,000
you'd introduced your sister, is that right?

404
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,000
Yes.

405
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:50,000
So my boss at Yorkshire TV was Nick Jones, who was a very successful location manager.

406
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:55,000
And he was my boss when I worked on the Kay Mellor show,

407
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,000
it was like Fat Friends.

408
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,000
And I set him up on a blind date with my sister.

409
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,000
They got together and had children.

410
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,000
Lovely.

411
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,000
Yeah.

412
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,000
And then he set up UK locations.

413
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,000
Yes, that's right.

414
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,000
And how long was he running that then?

415
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,000
I think it was around three to four years that he was running it for.

416
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,000
Yes.

417
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,000
And then sadly he passed away.

418
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,000
He did, yeah. He died in a car crash.

419
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,000
Obviously my sister was left with a three and four year old at the time.

420
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,000
So I moved in with my sister to help her look after the children.

421
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,000
And so at what point did you offer them to help with this?

422
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,000
Because now I'm seeing that link between you working on locations,

423
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,000
because you were saying I picked the wrong thing in hindsight.

424
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,000
I should have gone to one of the other areas,

425
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,000
but actually it was quite fortuitous that you've done location.

426
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,000
Well, one, you met Nick.

427
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,000
Yeah.

428
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:51,000
But then suddenly there was a business here that actually you knew a bit about.

429
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,000
Yeah, totally.

430
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,000
And so my sister was running the business.

431
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,000
She's a nurse. She was obviously grieving.

432
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,000
It was very difficult.

433
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:04,000
It was also the start of the last recession, so 2008.

434
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,000
So it was pretty hard.

435
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,000
It was hard for her.

436
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,000
And Nick was the business. He was a face of business.

437
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,000
He was so charismatic. He was such an amazing person.

438
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,000
People just adored him.

439
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,000
So you can totally see why the business had done well.

440
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,000
But obviously without him, it was just a different beast basically.

441
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:30,000
And so I said to my sister, you know, should I work in it?

442
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,000
And then there was a few difficult conversations because we were both working in it.

443
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,000
And it just wasn't quite working.

444
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,000
So we just decided like Sal would go back to nursing and obviously look after the children.

445
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,000
And I would just give UK locations a go.

446
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,000
And I just thought, what is the worst that could happen?

447
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,000
Because the worst thing has happened.

448
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,000
So actually, even if it doesn't work out, I will just get another job.

449
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,000
It doesn't matter.

450
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,000
And then so that's what happened.

451
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,000
And that's a brave move, isn't it?

452
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:03,000
Because here you have a business that, like you say, is about the individual really

453
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,000
and about the relationships presumably he had.

454
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,000
Yeah.

455
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,000
And then you step into it and that's one, a hard act to follow,

456
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,000
especially as he's not with you anymore.

457
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,000
And also he's a family member that you love and you've lost.

458
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,000
So, I mean, to step into that, how did you feel in that?

459
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,000
I mean, was that scary?

460
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,000
Do you know what? It wasn't.

461
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,000
And I tell you why, because like I said, the worst thing had happened.

462
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,000
And there was just bigger fish to fry.

463
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,000
You know, it wasn't scary.

464
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,000
I just thought, fuck it, what's going to happen?

465
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,000
You know, it doesn't matter really.

466
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,000
And so that's why I just did it.

467
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,000
And, you know, my husband had gone back to university at this point.

468
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,000
He was studying civil engineering.

469
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,000
And obviously I started working at UK locations.

470
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,000
We were earning a lot of money because the business wasn't doing very well.

471
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,000
We had no money. We had no money.

472
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,000
I mean, you know, we didn't even have TV.

473
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,000
We used to watch TV on his phone together.

474
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,000
So we really had hit rock bottom.

475
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,000
But you know what?

476
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,000
Like I said, it wasn't worse than losing Nick.

477
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,000
So nothing was worse than that.

478
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,000
So everything seemed better.

479
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,000
So in perspective, it was a small thing to be doing really.

480
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,000
And it was totally.

481
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,000
And I just gave myself space and I just thought,

482
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,000
if it doesn't work, it does not work.

483
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,000
It's OK.

484
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,000
Yeah, yeah. And gave yourself permission to just have a go and see what you could do.

485
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,000
So what did you do over the next few years then with that business?

486
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,000
Because you've turned it into something else, presumably.

487
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,000
Yeah, I mean, I initially I followed the same model that Nick had done.

488
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,000
So, you know, he was hiring locations, but he was also a location manager.

489
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,000
So what would happen is he'd hire location on a shoot,

490
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,000
but he would also be on that shoot, like looking after the location.

491
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,000
And so his business model was getting paid from the location.

492
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,000
He'd get a location fee, but he would also get a fee for being a location manager.

493
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:02,000
Obviously, I wasn't a location manager, but I had worked in drama as a location assistant.

494
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,000
So I basically just replicated what he did.

495
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,000
And I said I was a location manager.

496
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,000
So I used to go on these shoots.

497
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000
And honestly, I say, oh, my goodness, what am I doing?

498
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,000
You know, I'd be on these shoots.

499
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:21,000
And really, I didn't really know what I was doing, but I just thought, right,

500
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,000
I was so determined to do it that I just did it.

501
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,000
So, you know, I'd be on these shoots and be there at four in the morning,

502
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,000
opening up and getting ready to get the unit in and things like that,

503
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:38,000
and getting all the production in and then finishing at like 12 at night on that day

504
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,000
and then driving home.

505
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,000
And I did that for about two years.

506
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,000
So I replicated what he did for two years.

507
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,000
And I went to see every single client.

508
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,000
That was the other thing that I did.

509
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,000
And I reintroduced myself, told them the story.

510
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,000
Obviously, they knew Nick had died.

511
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,000
And I must say, people were so receptive because they loved him so much.

512
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,000
And they were so kind to me.

513
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:07,000
So I think they felt they helped me and they booked stuff through me just because of Nick.

514
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,000
So, you know, it wasn't my doing that I turned all around.

515
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,000
I have to say they really helped me.

516
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:18,000
But then after two years, I thought, oh, God, this is I'm not a location manager.

517
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,000
I'm not. And I don't want to be.

518
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,000
I don't want to.

519
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,000
You know, because everything I'd hated at the beginning when I was younger,

520
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,000
I was doing again, you know, getting up at four o'clock in the morning,

521
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,000
doing those really long hours.

522
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,000
I just thought, this isn't me.

523
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,000
It's not what I want to do.

524
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,000
But I've done it and I've got it to this stage.

525
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,000
But now I need to change it.

526
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,000
So that's when I changed the business model.

527
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,000
And then we were more just about the locations.

528
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,000
So we were in a location agency and we worked with location managers

529
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,000
and we put them on different shoots.

530
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,000
OK, yeah.

531
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,000
So that's when that kind of changed, really.

532
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000
And when you were doing that two years of being the location manager,

533
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,000
what did you learn about yourself over that period of time?

534
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,000
Oh, I don't like being cold.

535
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:05,000
I don't like parking cars.

536
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,000
These are good life lessons though.

537
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,000
I think we can all we can all take from this.

538
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,000
You did it as well. So you went in there.

539
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,000
You weren't a location manager.

540
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,000
So you faked it.

541
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,000
But you went in and you did it.

542
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,000
You found out you didn't like it, but you did it.

543
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,000
I think that's just really cool, isn't it?

544
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,000
Because the fact you had that perspective of,

545
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,000
well, the worst thing has already happened.

546
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,000
So what does it matter?

547
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,000
I'll just go along and I'll do it.

548
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,000
And you must have felt on those sets sometimes like someone in a minute

549
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,000
is going to tap me on the shoulder and go,

550
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,000
what do you think you're doing?

551
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,000
I mean, a lot of the time I was just really open with people

552
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,000
and people obviously knew that Nick had died.

553
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,000
So again, people were very kind.

554
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,000
And I think they allowed me to just try my best.

555
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,000
And I do think in those situations in TV,

556
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:56,000
if you are just honest, open, kind, try your hardest.

557
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,000
I don't think people can really argue with that, can they?

558
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:05,000
You know, if you're giving it your all and you're doing a good job

559
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,000
and you'll be nice to people.

560
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,000
Well, you learned you could do it.

561
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,000
Yeah.

562
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,000
You could do it, not only run the business,

563
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,000
but you could go and be a location manager,

564
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,000
even though you hadn't been a location manager before.

565
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,000
And I think there's a lesson there for all of us, isn't there,

566
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,000
about if you want to do something and have a go, just go have a go.

567
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,000
Because you might discover that you can do it.

568
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,000
Then you might discover you don't like it.

569
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,000
And then you have to do something about that, don't you?

570
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,000
So once you've changed the business, so now it's just an agency.

571
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,000
And then did that feel different then for you?

572
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,000
Because presumably now this was your concept,

573
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,000
your baby.

574
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,000
Did that change things?

575
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,000
Yeah, it did.

576
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:52,000
I guess I always thought, is this right for me?

577
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,000
Is this what I should be doing?

578
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,000
Because at that point I didn't feel completely comfortable, I have to say.

579
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,000
I still felt like I was being a bit of an imposter,

580
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:06,000
didn't really know what I was doing, feeling my way through things.

581
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,000
And I think I was doing every single element of the business,

582
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,000
and at that point I learned I couldn't do accounts.

583
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,000
I'm so bad at things like that, maths, accounts.

584
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,000
Commercially, I'm brilliant.

585
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:24,000
But the actual account side of stuff, absolutely terrible.

586
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,000
I was like not missing invoices, not getting people to pay, all that kind of thing.

587
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,000
So then it has a real detriment effect on the business, doesn't it?

588
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:37,000
And at that point my husband had started working in civil engineering,

589
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,000
not really liking it.

590
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,000
And so he was starting to really love photography,

591
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,000
and he's really good at maths.

592
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,000
So at that point we were like, well, why don't you join the business?

593
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:53,000
You can photograph all our locations, and then also you can do accounts.

594
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,000
Really, I love that delegation.

595
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,000
Just like you're good at maths, you do it.

596
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,000
Love it.

597
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,000
So that's what happened.

598
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,000
He joined the business there.

599
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,000
He's really brilliant at IT processes, things like that.

600
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,000
So he kind of sort of...

601
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,000
You married well.

602
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,000
So he really sorted out.

603
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,000
Also, he had worked in locations too.

604
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,000
So he'd had that experience.

605
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:18,000
So he joined the business, I think this was probably about eight years ago,

606
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,000
and that was a real turning point for us,

607
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:25,000
because then I could concentrate on the sales, kind of client side of stuff,

608
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:30,000
bringing in more locations, and he could focus on the other elements.

609
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,000
Yeah, that was a massive turning point.

610
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,000
It was also, you know, it's tricky working with your husband, I have to say.

611
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,000
It's difficult.

612
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,000
So that came with all its...

613
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,000
Well, it must be quite intensive, because you're together at work,

614
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,000
you're together at home, and so it's like, what are you talking about?

615
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,000
Do you just talk about work at home?

616
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,000
Because normally we go home to our partners, we tell them a bit about our day,

617
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,000
they tell a bit about their day, but you've been together.

618
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:58,000
So there's something there, I imagine you have to differentiate quite clearly.

619
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,000
And I was pregnant at this time, you know, with my first baby.

620
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,000
So there was a lot going on, definitely.

621
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,000
I mean, you're stacking in the challenges there, really, aren't you, Lauren?

622
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,000
Just getting them in there.

623
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:14,000
Just why not? I'm a bit bored, let's just have the baby in.

624
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,000
Like, running a business isn't enough.

625
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,000
And then you got to the point, you told me before,

626
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,000
where the business was doing well, and then it started to plateau,

627
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,000
and then you had a bit of a crisis of confidence, didn't you?

628
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,000
Yeah, massively, yeah.

629
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,000
So I got it to a level where it was doing well,

630
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,000
but it was still kind of like a lifestyle business, I would say.

631
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,000
You know, you could still run it from home.

632
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:45,000
Maybe we had two employees, and then there was James and I as well.

633
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:50,000
It plateaued for about two or three years, and I just didn't know what to do.

634
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,000
Honestly, I thought, how do you make this go bigger?

635
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,000
How do you grow it?

636
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,000
And then I started turning on myself and thinking, well, maybe I'm not good.

637
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,000
Maybe running a business just isn't me. I can't do it.

638
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,000
So that's what I kept thinking.

639
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:12,000
And, you know, I turned to the lep in Leeds and tried to get some strategic help,

640
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,000
but it never kind of landed, and I don't know.

641
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,000
I just didn't really know how to strategically grow it

642
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,000
because I didn't know how to do strategy, basically.

643
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,000
And I just thought, well, maybe I'm just not good at that.

644
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,000
Maybe I'm not strategic.

645
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,000
Yeah, that's exactly what I thought.

646
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,000
And then at that point, I thought, do you know, I'm just going to sell it.

647
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,000
I'm just going to sell it because what is the point?

648
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,000
I'm just not very good at this, and I'll just go back to marketing

649
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,000
and I'll work for somebody else. That's what I thought.

650
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:45,000
And then it was the lep, actually, in Leeds that came to me and they said,

651
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:51,000
like, there's this Goldman Sachs program and it's free,

652
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,000
but it's hard to get onto, but they help you grow your business

653
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,000
by teaching you how to grow your business.

654
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,000
And I looked and I thought, oh, my God, this looks like I just,

655
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,000
it's just perfect for me. I need to do it.

656
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,000
And I applied once and I didn't get on it.

657
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,000
And then I applied again and I got on it.

658
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,000
And I remember when they told me and I just burst into tears in the interview

659
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:18,000
because it meant so much to me for somebody to believe that I could do it.

660
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,000
And I just couldn't believe that I'd been given that opportunity.

661
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,000
And after all that voice in your head that was saying, maybe you can't,

662
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:33,000
maybe you shouldn't, maybe it's not you, to then have an external person

663
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,000
and then a big brand like that that know what they're doing, saying,

664
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,000
yeah, come join us. We think you've got what it takes.

665
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,000
That must have an amazing impact on your confidence.

666
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,000
It did. And then I, yeah, like I said, I couldn't believe it.

667
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,000
And then when I got on it and when I started doing it,

668
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,000
it completely changed my life.

669
00:35:54,000 --> 00:36:02,000
It completely changed how I felt about myself, how my ability, my belief, my ability.

670
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,000
Because they do, the training is so amazing.

671
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,000
So they give you four months of strategic growth training

672
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,000
at Oxford University Business School.

673
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,000
You're getting taught by the people who run multimillion pound businesses.

674
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,000
So they know how to bloody do it.

675
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,000
And the program is so well set up.

676
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,000
And I just drank it in. I just loved every single second of it.

677
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,000
It was so amazing. I loved it so much.

678
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,000
And I will always be so thankful to Goldman Sachs for that.

679
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,000
It was just life changing.

680
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,000
And I've told them, I've told them loads of times how I feel about it.

681
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,000
Because after I finished, to be among other CEOs of companies,

682
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,000
everybody there owns the business.

683
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,000
No one can't not own the business.

684
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:54,000
And so you then among all the people who feel the same way about stuff.

685
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,000
So they all say, is it me? Can I do this?

686
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,000
You've got this group of people you can say, this is happening in my business.

687
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,000
Has that ever happened? Yes, it happened to me.

688
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,000
And this is how I did it.

689
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,000
And you're like, oh, my God, that's just just the information I need.

690
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,000
And it just like gets you there so much quicker.

691
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,000
And then the confidence thing, you're like, you know, did that happen to you?

692
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,000
Yeah, and I made that mistake. Oh, my God, I made that mistake, too.

693
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,000
How did you get right? Oh, my God, it's not just me.

694
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,000
It's not me. And I so empowering.

695
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:31,000
Like, I just couldn't believe how amazing that was, because I thought I can bloody do this.

696
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:36,000
And so when I finished that program after finished, we doubled turnover.

697
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,000
We doubled the team.

698
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,000
We made more money than we'd ever made ever.

699
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:46,000
We took the whole team skiing, you know, because we were making so much money then.

700
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,000
And it was so amazing.

701
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,000
And I thought, oh, my God, I am actually really good at this.

702
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,000
So it wasn't that you couldn't do it.

703
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,000
It's that you didn't have the Intel.

704
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:02,000
You didn't have the data, the know how, the network. That was what was missing.

705
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,000
It was nothing about you, your passion, your ambition, your work ethic,

706
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,000
all those things that, you know, make you Lauren.

707
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,000
There was nothing deficient there.

708
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:17,000
It was just that input and the support and the reassurance that, oh, my God, we all have that.

709
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,000
Oh, yeah, that's definitely I fell over just the same.

710
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,000
This is what I did to get up again. And that reassuring support.

711
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:29,000
Yeah. And, you know, they still now when you're part of Goldman Sachs program, you're there for life.

712
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,000
Basically, you're part of their alumni.

713
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,000
So we we all now meet regularly.

714
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,000
They still do regular get togethers.

715
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:41,000
We're on WhatsApp with the people, you know, so you just have like on speed dial people.

716
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,000
You just go like I'm feeling like this. I've got this HR issue.

717
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,000
This is happening to me. Don't worry. I know this person.

718
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,000
Don't worry. That happened to me. And I did this.

719
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:54,000
I that now for me, that comfort blanket is all that I needed.

720
00:38:54,000 --> 00:39:01,000
And I just needed to know how to write a strategy, how to really understand how I grow a business.

721
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:09,000
And now I have that. You know, I feel like I can do anything really.

722
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,000
I mean, the imposter syndrome still comes in at times without a doubt.

723
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,000
You know, I'm launching something new at the moment.

724
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:20,000
Imposter syndrome is coming again, but it's nowhere near what it used to be

725
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,000
because I now feel like I've got the building blocks.

726
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,000
I know how to grow a business. I know what you need to do.

727
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:33,000
Yes. And so I know that if I just put those frameworks in place, it will happen.

728
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,000
And I think that imposter syndrome, that's where the mind is being helpful.

729
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:42,000
I think it's really healthy when we go into something new and novel to feel that sense of,

730
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,000
oh, I might not be good enough. I might need to do something different.

731
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:51,000
Because I think that gives us the adrenaline, the fire in our belly to go and find things

732
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:56,000
and learn things and pay attention or just to get up and on it a little bit more,

733
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,000
get out of bed a bit earlier, work a little bit later.

734
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:05,000
It's that anxiety that's fueling something productive rather than the other version of anxiety

735
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:10,000
where we just let it overwhelm us and we can't then act because we feel overwhelmed with it.

736
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:15,000
Whereas I think that level of imposter syndrome, when you're in something new,

737
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,000
I think that's really healthy.

738
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:23,000
Yeah. I mean, with the new element of the business that we're about to,

739
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,000
what I'm working on now, we're going to launch next year.

740
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,000
Like I said, the feelings of imposter syndrome have come in again.

741
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:36,000
And then also the anxiety around, will it work? Won't it work? Can I do it?

742
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,000
All those kind of things. And that happened over a three-week period.

743
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:47,000
And I wasn't sleeping properly. I was allowing it to infiltrate my whole life basically.

744
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,000
And I took a step back from it and I had a word with a friend of mine who's a psychologist.

745
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:57,000
And she really helped me put it into perspective and reframe how I feel about it.

746
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:02,000
And so I now see that it's a project that I'm working on.

747
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,000
It might work, it might not work, but I will give it my best shot.

748
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,000
There's productive worry and there's unproductive worry.

749
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:14,000
So if I'm worrying about something overnight, I now get out of bed and I write,

750
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,000
is it productive worry? If it is productive worry, I then put a date to it.

751
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,000
So I will do this by then. So I know that I'm going to do that.

752
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:26,000
If it's unproductive worry, I put it in another column and I put my values to it.

753
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,000
So say, for example, this will never work.

754
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:35,000
If that's one of my unproductive worries, I will look at that and I think it might not work,

755
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,000
but I'm going to give it my best shot because that is one of my values.

756
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:44,000
I want to do it so much and I have a passion and an interest to do it so much.

757
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:50,000
So if it doesn't work, at least I've tried. At least I've given it my all.

758
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,000
And you will learn. You will learn.

759
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:57,000
And I think that's one of the things that we forget sometimes when we're feeling scared of something,

760
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:03,000
that whether it succeeds or whether it fails, we will be different at the end of that process.

761
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,000
We will have grown in our understanding of ourselves, our understanding of that piece of work,

762
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,000
our understanding of the world and other people.

763
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,000
So every experience is a learning experience, isn't it?

764
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:18,000
And I think if we focus more on what can I learn rather than will I succeed,

765
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,000
that can, like you say, just calm everything down and just manage that anxiety.

766
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,000
I love that two columns, though, productive and unproductive.

767
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,000
And then some people would be like, and then I just focus on the productive.

768
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:34,000
But you're actually actively thinking about the unproductive and reframing that.

769
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:39,000
Yeah. And that's really cool. I can see how that must be really powerful.

770
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:47,000
Yeah, completely, because it allows you to understand that that worry is important.

771
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:53,000
It is. It's not ignoring it. I'm not thinking just go away. Why am I anxious?

772
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:58,000
It is. It's my body telling me, you know, it's a fight or flight, isn't it?

773
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,000
My body, the cortisol in my body, my body's doing a good thing

774
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,000
by trying to keep me awake at night worrying about stuff.

775
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,000
But I have to reframe that in my head.

776
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:13,000
And I, you know, so my friend told me just thank your body for doing the job it's doing.

777
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:20,000
But then say, I'm OK. It's OK. I'm safe. And this is what I'm going to do about her.

778
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,000
And actually, that has been so powerful. So I'm now sleeping better.

779
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,000
You know, and I don't feel the pressure of the new project.

780
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:33,000
I just think I am grateful for the opportunity to work on this new project.

781
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,000
And I am going to enjoy it. Enjoy it. Absolutely.

782
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,000
And the brain has such great advice from your friend.

783
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,000
And the brain doesn't know why the cortisol level has gone up.

784
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,000
It's such a primitive system.

785
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:52,000
And essentially, our cortisol level fight and flight kicks in because we're escaping with our lives.

786
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,000
That's fundamentally what it's there for.

787
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,000
And so if you have lots of cortisol in your system, if you're really stressed and anxious

788
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,000
and you're thinking lots about being stressed and anxious and the thing that's stressing you,

789
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,000
your brain won't let you go into a deep sleep.

790
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,000
It won't let you sleep through the night because it thinks something's coming to get you

791
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,000
because the brain, you know, it's evolving slowly.

792
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:18,000
It doesn't understand that that stressor is a negative email you got or a new project coming.

793
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,000
It thinks it's a saber-toothed tiger. You know, it doesn't know yet.

794
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:28,000
And so just understanding that, yes, it is doing something helpful, but actually just calming everything down.

795
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:35,000
Like you're saying you're doing the Pilates and all the things that remove like a little bit of gentle exercise,

796
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,000
good bit of fresh air, distracting yourself from the stressors.

797
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:45,000
These are all the things that calm our physiology down, drop our cortisol levels, allow us to sleep.

798
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:55,000
Yeah. And I think it's, you know, for me as well, like my tendency is to jump feet first in and to give it everything.

799
00:44:55,000 --> 00:45:03,000
And that thing of giving it everything for me is like waking up at five, starting work then before the children get up,

800
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:12,000
working as much as I possibly can, try and work in weekends. But that is my, that's what I tend to do.

801
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,000
So I have to look at that and think that's not healthy.

802
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:21,000
And so what is healthy is really setting boundaries.

803
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:29,000
And, you know, so now if I get up at five, I don't do work. I'll do meditation and I do some breathing exercises.

804
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:36,000
Or I might even watch TV, you know, because that will allow my, for me personally, allows my brain to relax.

805
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:49,000
And then, you know, every day I'll do an hour's exercise and I will fit that into my working day because it allows me to work better and to be better and to help with my mental health.

806
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:53,000
It reduces my anxiety. And so I know all these things about me.

807
00:45:53,000 --> 00:46:04,000
So I try not to get back into how I would normally do stuff or, you know, it's like an addiction to it really.

808
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,000
But I have to really set my boundaries around it.

809
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:17,000
Yeah. And it's really normal, isn't it, that if you've got something big going on or something difficult going on, it makes sense to work longer and work harder and not take a break.

810
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:23,000
But what we have to realize is that cortisol makes us tunnel vision. So it's basically saying don't look away.

811
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,000
Don't look away from the threat. Keep your attention on the threat.

812
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:32,000
But resilience wise, we can't sustain that. Eventually we're not sleeping very well and then we're going to get sick.

813
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,000
So you when we first spoke, you got a cold, hadn't you?

814
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,000
Because you're in all of that and all of that thing. Whereas we're really resilient.

815
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:44,000
Human beings are really resilient when we have this pattern of stress, rest, stress, rest, stress, rest.

816
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:51,000
So sitting, watching the TV, doing meditation, thinking about something other than the project is really healthy stuff.

817
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,000
And it makes such a difference. And you're living that, aren't you?

818
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:58,000
You're like, oh, my gosh, I'm feeling so much better. Just a couple of weeks on. Yeah.

819
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:03,000
Because you've changed how you're thinking about this thing and how you're responding to it.

820
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,000
Yeah, it wasn't working for me. How I was doing before.

821
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:14,000
And then also, you know, it affects everybody. It affects my kids, affects my husband, my team here. You know, that is not a great.

822
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:20,000
I can't lead a team in that position of complete stress and tiredness.

823
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,000
You're going to be techy. Exactly.

824
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:27,000
So, yeah, just as a kind of final area, really, you talked about the bad bosses you'd had in the past.

825
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:33,000
Yeah. How do you lead your team now? What's your philosophy? What are your leadership values?

826
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:41,000
How do you try and approach it? Yeah. So in our work, we don't have any hierarchical structure.

827
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,000
Obviously, we have roles of what and responsibilities of what we do.

828
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:52,000
But no one does not the structure of, you know, no one can't talk to me, has to go through somebody else. None of that.

829
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,000
Everybody's opinion really matters.

830
00:47:54,000 --> 00:48:03,000
And we encourage people to say what they think so that we can think about, you know, that we can make a decision together.

831
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:09,000
Because the thing is, I don't know everything. And I don't want to know everything either, because that's insane.

832
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:17,000
I wouldn't be able to do that. And so I want to hear everyone's opinions and I want them to feel valued.

833
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:24,000
And that's how we kind of work here. So everyone has a voice. Everyone's opinion counts.

834
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:29,000
You know, I don't make the final decision on maybe the bigger and important, bigger things I do.

835
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:33,000
But, you know, I'll say to them, you know, what do you think about that?

836
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:39,000
Well, I think this. Yeah, you are right. That is definitely the best way to do it.

837
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:43,000
The other thing is, like, for me, it's holding your hands up and saying sorry.

838
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:50,000
The other day I made a mistake and it had an effect on one of the team members with a client.

839
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:58,000
And I came into the office and I straight away apologized to her because she had the brunt of it.

840
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:03,000
And I went to the client and I told them the situation that I it would be me. I had done that.

841
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:09,000
None of my team. It was all to do with me. And I was sorry. It wouldn't happen again.

842
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:19,000
And then we carried on because I think that it's not fair to allow somebody else to take the brunt of something that I had done.

843
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:24,000
And also, why not just hold your hands up and say it was me.

844
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:31,000
This is what I'm going to do next time. Or it won't happen again. I'm really sorry. Let's move forward with this.

845
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:37,000
Oh, my God. I'm just imagining some of my client groups listening to this and thinking, I want to go and work for Lauren.

846
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:42,000
Because this is the opposite of what some people get. But there's a humility in it.

847
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,000
So it's not just asking people's opinions.

848
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:52,000
It's being prepared for them to have a better idea or a better insight from what you're saying, isn't it?

849
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:57,000
Isn't just about going through the motions of everyone has a voice, but I'm the boss and I decide.

850
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:03,000
It's everyone has a voice because more brains are more intelligent than one brain.

851
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,000
So let's be in this together and use all those different insights.

852
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,000
And also, you know, everyone makes mistakes, don't they?

853
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,000
Everyone makes mistakes. Repeated mistakes is another thing.

854
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:22,000
But mistakes, owning it and apologizing for me is really powerful because and then learning from it.

855
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,000
You know, that's really powerful. And I want them to do that, too.

856
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:34,000
I want us all to be feel comfortable in owning our shit, basically. If we've done something wrong, just own up to it.

857
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,000
We'll sort it out and let's move on. We don't repeat it.

858
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,000
You know, I do that with the kids as well, you know.

859
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,000
It is. It's like being a good parent, isn't it?

860
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,000
And it's role modeling the behavior you want.

861
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:48,000
You know, that whole thing of, you know, the kids aren't allowed to have their tech at the table when you're eating dinner.

862
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,000
So why is mom and dad got their phone in their hand?

863
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:59,000
You know, it's those simple things, isn't it? What you're doing will instruct others about what's appropriate behavior, what we should be doing.

864
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:05,000
If you're honest and you're willing to hold your hands up and if you're willing to say you're sorry and you ask people their opinions,

865
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:11,000
well, that's encouraging your team to do the same and telling them something about the kind of environment you want to build.

866
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,000
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, my children will call me out and stuff.

867
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:19,000
I mean, they're five and eight. But, you know, they'll say, mommy, but you said this about this.

868
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:25,000
And I'm like, OK, did I? OK, thank you for that. Thank you for bringing that up.

869
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:29,000
And OK, well, maybe I did it because of this or oh, thank you.

870
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:33,000
Yes, I appreciate that. And I won't do that again.

871
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:38,000
But I really praise them when they call me out because they're not being rude.

872
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:45,000
They're not being, you know, difficult. They're they feel like they can tell me and have a voice.

873
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:51,000
And I think why I want to know that. And you want them to grow up like that, because essentially as a child,

874
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:56,000
telling your parent, giving your parent feedback, you're speaking the truth to power.

875
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:02,000
And if you speak the truth to power and power listens, you go out into the world as an adult thinking power is going to listen.

876
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:06,000
How empowering is that as a lesson in childhood?

877
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:10,000
But also, don't you think like kids have an opinion far too soon, though, really?

878
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:15,000
Like before you have kids, like you think it's going to be like a Disney movie and it's not, is it?

879
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:22,000
They like they do. But you know, one of my worst hates is when is when kids are shut down.

880
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,000
Yeah. No, you're right. Or when any person is shut down. I don't like it.

881
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:30,000
It triggers me. I don't know. Maybe because of past things. I don't know.

882
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:36,000
But I think everybody has should be given the chance to voice their opinion about something.

883
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:41,000
And then we discuss it, whether what opinion you go with in the end. Fine.

884
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:47,000
But everybody should be given the chance to voice how they feel about a situation completely.

885
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:58,000
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's very disempowering and suppressing to have someone sitting there with a burning idea or a burning concern and they're not able to express it.

886
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,000
Like how much stress is that creating in another person or in a child?

887
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:06,000
And so, yeah, it's part of your values. Yeah, completely.

888
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,000
Yeah. So I'm really getting a sense of how you lead. And it sounds fabulous.

889
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,000
Really, it does, Lauren. And I'm sure it's part of that secret to success.

890
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:24,000
Goldman Sachs aside, I think, you know, the fact that you're leading your people in that way is facilitating everything that's happening and the good things that are happening.

891
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,000
But we're all learning, aren't we? We're all learning.

892
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:31,000
There's always room for growth, isn't there? And there's always room for feedback, isn't there?

893
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:37,000
You know, as well, like, you know, so I definitely don't know it all and I definitely have made mistakes in the past.

894
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:42,000
How boring would life be there if you already knew it all now? And so there was no more learning.

895
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:46,000
Yeah, life done. Yeah, done. I'm finished. I'm finished.

896
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:50,000
And I meet some people who I think they do genuinely think that they're finished. Right.

897
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:54,000
And it's not healthy. And I don't think they're happy. No.

898
00:53:54,000 --> 00:54:02,000
I think there's something fundamental about the human being wanting to grow and develop and be better tomorrow than we were today.

899
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:10,000
So when you think back to that teenage, young version of Lauren, what would she think of where you are now?

900
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:18,000
You know, I think she would be so proud and also pleased at where she'd got.

901
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:25,000
If I was to give myself some kind of advice, I would say there's always another way.

902
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,000
That would be my advice to anyone, really.

903
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:37,000
And, you know, as one door closes, I know it's cliche, but another one can open as long as you're looking for that door.

904
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:45,000
And that has been my career. It has gone, you know, sideways, ups, downs, all over.

905
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:53,000
But really, I've been on that path to where I want to be. And that's making entertainment and being creative.

906
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:58,000
And things don't always go the way that you expect them to go.

907
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:03,000
But you've just got to keep looking for a different way and a different route to get there.

908
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:10,000
And don't allow anybody to tell you, you cannot do it. Yes.

909
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:16,000
And if we could all believe that a little younger in life, I think so many of us get to that insight later.

910
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:22,000
But like you say, if you could whisper in her ear, it would be like, just keep your mind open.

911
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:29,000
I mean, it sounds like just the way that you've approached your career has been very open minded.

912
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:33,000
So you've known what you wanted, really, since you were young.

913
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,000
But how you've got there is wiggled around.

914
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:40,000
But you've just kind of followed that, taken what you can from it.

915
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:49,000
And it seems like quite reflective as you've been going, like you're describing insights you've gained along the way, which not everybody can do.

916
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:56,000
So you're obviously somebody who's occasionally stopping and thinking, OK, so what was that experience like in the finance sector?

917
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:57,000
What did that give me?

918
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:03,000
And, you know, what were those bosses telling me about myself or the world or how not to lead?

919
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:10,000
So you're paying attention to those experiences and feeding it into your own tactics and approach.

920
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:14,000
And I think that's great. I think there's a massive lesson to that.

921
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,000
But also you just your enthusiasm, you know, you just hear you're enthusiastic.

922
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:21,000
You love what you do. Yeah. And that's infectious, isn't it? Yeah.

923
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,000
Who wouldn't want to be around that? It's lovely.

924
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:29,000
Oh, Lauren, it's been great. Is there anything else that you would like to say to women that are following in your footsteps?

925
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:38,000
Is there anything I mean, similar to what I said before, I think for women leaders or any, you know, women who are starting out with something,

926
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:42,000
the thing that will get you there is your passion and your grit.

927
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:55,000
Really? You know, honestly, that's that's it at the end of day, because people will tell you tear your strips off you and people will say, you know, you're not doing the right thing or that will definitely happen.

928
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:59,000
There's no two ways about it, especially when you're going out on your own in corporate life.

929
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,000
You're a bit more sheltered, I think anyway.

930
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:12,000
But when you're you're doing it for yourself, you're running your own business, you know, that thick skin, it doesn't just happen.

931
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:17,000
But you have to have a really clear vision of where you want to be.

932
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:26,000
And so when people do when it doesn't quite work or when people do tear bits off you, you can just keep thinking, I'm just going to keep going with this.

933
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:30,000
I'm just going to keep going with it and just find a different route.

934
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:39,000
And that is honestly what I would. It's not easy and it's not quick, but it does work if you keep going with it.

935
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:44,000
Wow. What a great piece of advice. Be more gritty.

936
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:48,000
Stick at it and who knows what you can achieve.

937
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:52,000
Lauren, thank you so much. Thank you. I've had an amazing time. It's been great, hasn't it?

938
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:58,000
I feel like we're just mates now.

939
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,000
In the next episode. It's really about confidence.

940
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:07,000
I mean, there's a huge sort of notion of manifestation and how you manifest your dreams.

941
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:15,000
And that kind of supports the idea that that confidence and belief in yourself will will see you through to where you want to go.

942
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:38,000
Because if you give up, you're not going to take those steps that you would have taken if you believed in yourself.