Welcome to Leadership Journeys. I'm psychologist Leona Deakin and we are delving into the minds
of successful women to find out how they've achieved the things that they've achieved.
On our last episode we heard from their inspirational emerita professor of leadership,
Beverly Alamo Metcalfe, on why great leadership comes from really stereotypically female qualities,
things like showing a genuine concern for others and that these increase our productivity,
our motivation and reduce our stress unlike any other leadership behaviours. It's pretty cool stuff.
Coming up on today's episode, something quite different. I woke up from an explosion,
like it was a big panic. I put my rucksack, laptop, documents, some cash,
took my stuff and I left apartment and I thought probably I will never come back here and probably
I'll never see my apartment again. How do you take a negative life event, even one as extreme
as escaping war and turn that into an opportunity to do something good?
Today we have a truly inspirational guest. We have Yana Smaglo, who not only has had to start her life
over again here in the UK as a result of the war in Ukraine, but she has also built an amazing
business, Nenya Distribution, which is now global and sells clothing, lingerie, shoes from Ukraine
into the rest of the world. So she's not only building a business for herself, she is also
helping those who are back in her homeland and very keen to contribute to her adoptive home here
in the UK. So I have no doubt that today's conversation is going to teach us so much,
not only about resilience, but also about having a sense of purpose and a passion that drives
your business life. So Yana, welcome. Hello. Hello. You're such a cute little hello.
So I started to shy. So just take us back a little bit to your life growing up in Ukraine.
So when you were a youngster and in your teen years, what did you expect from life? What were
your hopes and dreams back then? I was born in a small town near Kharkiv. Kharkiv is the second
biggest city in Ukraine, raised by my grandma. We have a lot of money, but in general, I had
quite nice childhood, study a lot. I went to school for special kids, like who special educate
the kids. I don't really remember. I remember that I got my passion for fashion from childhood. So I
really was passionate about it. I draw a lot, I read a lot about it, magazines, everything,
and we didn't have, so it was, I was born in 1992. So it was post-Soviet time and we didn't have a
lot of magazines or something like walk at that time, but still we had some and I learned a lot
and it was interesting for me all the time. But when I finished the school, I actually did
athletic professional at school also, which was really nice and, you know, learned me a lot to be
really organized, to don't give up or something like this. It's like make your character really.
After school, I told my grandma that I would like to go study design, but also she was a post-Soviet
person and she was like, what is it design? I don't understand. It's not real profession.
She was a physicist. If we're talking about math and physics, she had a big expectation for me.
But also she dreamed that I'd been a dentist, but not my thing. I'm really scared of lot of everything.
So she was like, okay, you should think about it seriously. No designing, anything like this,
no painting, nothing like this. You should choose real profession. It was okay. So in general,
I went from my skills, like best skills that I had at that time, and it was math. So I went study
finance. I got master's degree from finance and I worked at the financial department as an accountant,
main accountant during university and a little bit after. Then I decided that I didn't want to do it
anymore. So in general, I already been main accountant at the big manufacturing. I was like,
that's all actually. I should do it all my life. The same thing.
Heather Hyslop That just didn't excite you.
Yeah. It's good profession. I'm not telling that it's bad profession or something, but it wasn't
my passion. At that moment, I had a partner and I asked him, how do you think if I would change my
profession and become a fashion designer? And he was like, yeah, why not? And he told it so,
he like, it was so easy for me. Okay. So next day I went to designing school in Harkiv. I start
learning design. I did my first collection. And actually from that, I started my first business
as a fashion designer, opened the brand. Yeah.
So very quickly after changing from finance to design,
you're producing your own line of fashion. Yeah, actually.
But the big burning question that's occurring to me is what did grandma say?
Oh, no, she was really supportive. So from her perspective, I was really independent financially.
Okay. So she was like, if you want, in this point, she always trust me. If you want, if you see
something in it. So she understood that I always should stay on my own legs if it's clear. And she
was like, if you see your future in it, try. But I think in her own thoughts, she had a big doubt
about it because it's not understandable for her fashion. It's not her side, not her field at all.
So yeah, and I started step by step and I went in that business eight years before war started.
So you had that support though from your partner at the time. He was quite pivotal in giving you
a bit of confidence, was he? Yeah, he was. We just started today. So he was really supportive,
mental support. Yeah. Yes. Then we started to live together. So it was actually financial support
also because your own business needs big financial investment. So I invested all my saving money from
past and he cover all risks financial. So it's good. It's quite good that you have this help.
So he was giving practical support and emotional support. Yeah. And it sounds like he believed in
you. Yeah. He still believes in me. Yeah. That's so powerful, isn't it? To just have somebody. Well,
it sounds like grandma believed in you as well. She just wanted you to get qualified first,
didn't she? I think a lot of parents and grandparents will probably relate to that.
I can tell you that probably if I would have a kid, I would say the same, like not real profession,
but you know, to be, if you go study something, be a really good in it, like get knowledge,
education, like I'm really stricken it for me. Education means a lot. If I would be a parent,
I'm forced probably like this. And that's why I'm not a parent.
Yet. It sounds so straightforward in some ways when you say, yes, I did finance and then I was
bored with it. So I decided to do design and then I sell my own fashion line. But what was the reality
of that in terms of how did that feel? Were you conscious of being on that learning curve? You
said a couple of times, Oh, that was really hard. That was really stressful. So what was the emotional
experience of that? Like when going through your twenties, first of all, you should understand my
personality. I'm really, I'm not really emotional, stable person. So I, um, I got stressed really
quickly, especially when I was younger. Now I'm like with some wisdom or something, I'm more calm,
but still in general, especially when I just started the business and you meeting a lot of
business problems, business questions, a new experience that you'd haven't before.
I thought like, Oh, come on new day. And again, something happened again. Something happened.
Probably I'm a bad manager. Probably it's not mine. I was really stressful. I was like,
I had a lot of panic attacks, but it's again, it's me, a lot of people who had much better
stressful situation, you know, like they more stable in this. So, uh, I don't want to scare
anyone or something like this. It's me. And I understood that actually all that I have now,
all that I go through, it's normal. So the idea of the business, it's you as a manager,
solving problems every day and this as bigger your business is as more problems you have on
dynamic of your day and more complicated problems. So your main goal as a manager, as a owner,
just be a person who will solve all this problem. This is a business.
So it's not stable in the same day in day out in actual fact, your role as a manager is solving
those problems. So am I right in hearing that even though you were someone who found yourself
getting stressed and had panic attacks and actually recognize that, Oh, maybe I'm a little
bit more emotional than other people around me that your tactic for managing that in yourself
was your intellect. Yeah. That you went off and learned. Yeah. So, but it's actually,
it's only one way, no? So your empirical knowledges. Yeah. So you, you, you're reading
something, you do it in real life, implementing it in your real life, in your business and go
through it. It's actually what's making your stronger. So for example, when you come in,
our lives quite complicated, especially for example, people in Ukraine, my generation.
So I'm 32 years old. I was born after Soviet Union. So we had deeper inflation, two revolutions,
war, full invasion. Our life, like on just my generation change a lot. Like, and it's,
it's caused with big economical problems, everything like your, your situation, not stable.
So you always have this thing in your head that you should prepare yourself for something worst.
Okay. And was that something that was ever present as you were growing up?
Then that idea that's interesting, isn't it? Cause I was going to say a lot of people who would be
very stressed and be having panic attacks in the environment might just think to themselves,
this isn't for me. I can't do it and change and go and do something else. So, but you didn't do
that. You were determined to make that as successful as you could, that career, weren't you?
Probably I'm crazy more than I'm a panic. So it, because it's interesting. And in general,
I'm always try to see, can I do it? And, you know, challenge myself. And for me, for example,
when I had this feeling, when you had a big issue in with your business in your day and you solve it
and you like understanding what you've done today, like was really amazing. Like not everyone can do
this, but you did it. And this feeling, it's like one, one or two seconds for me, but it's like,
one second for me, but it gives me okay. So I didn't waste my day. Everything else. It's more,
I'm just really understand that everything like panic attacks and every, all my issues,
it's not about that. I can't do this. It's just about my personal, maybe some traumas from
childhood or something. So in general, if people have it, they should work with professionals.
Like it's, it's okay. It's not, it's not about business and it's not about your actually skills
and knowledges. And it's not about, it's just your issue that probably goes from some deeper problems.
That's really powerful. Isn't it? So the idea that how we react to a situation isn't necessarily
about our ability in that moment. It can be about our history and we can all relate to that, you
know, on some level to a greater or lesser degree, that there are things that have happened in the
past, things we've been told about ourselves, about what we're good at, what we're not good at,
where we failed, where we've been blamed, that we then carry around like little scars
and they, they can affect us in that moment then, can't they?
Yes, of course. And in general, I think our, our main work as a people, yeah,
work with ourselves. So we're working with ourselves all our life. And as soon as we will
understand our problems, our like straights, yeah. And the weaknesses and we'll work with the
weaknesses as faster we became happy. So for example, we all have someone have, can be more
talented in one area, someone in another, someone have better skills here and here. So you should,
in general, our goal to understand who we are and manage with this.
Yes. And not make unrealistic comparisons. I think one of the things in all the research
around the psychology of imposter syndrome, you know, when we feel like we're not as good
as anyone else in this, I shouldn't be in design or I shouldn't be in a podcast or I shouldn't be
doing whatever we're doing is that we look around at other people doing that and we think, well,
they're really good with people and they're really good with numbers and they're really good at
selling themselves and they're really, and we take all the positives from a whole number of other
people and compare all of those positives to ourselves without thinking about the fact, well,
that's only one positive in that one person and they have got all sorts of other things going on
there that where we might be stronger. Yeah. In general, I have a theory, even with designing,
it doesn't matter, medicine or something. If you want to change a profession and became
an educated professional in some area, you should read 100 books about it and be always in the news.
So for example, about designing, I've been an accountant, became a designer. So I went to
courses and study actually a technology of sewing. I read a lot of books. I research a lot of
history about fashion and I always did, how to say, for making my creation mind,
so some exercises to make it. So I read a lot of ways how you can like, you know, force or like,
you know, boost your creation mind. Yes. And practicing being creative.
Yeah. So in general, you can get anything, any profession that you want, you just have to
just need to give it time, your attention and be really involved in it. That's all. You can do
anything. For example, a lot of people asking me if I want to go back to Ukraine or something.
And I always reply that unfortunately, it's no place for my business now there. It's a war there.
If I will come back, probably I need to build a manufacturer, which build the rockets.
And they're like, Oh, probably you can do it. It's just because if you want to do something,
if someone doesn't matter who you are, your man or woman, or if you like, or your educational
background or something in general, my theory that you can get anything, you just need give it time.
Give it time, a lot of like attention, energy for it and you will get it.
Yeah. And you've got to be interested, haven't you? So you're saying to be really good in any
profession or any world, you need to immerse yourself in that and get to know as much as you
can and practice as much as you can and be patient that it might take you many months, even years
to get to a level of skill that you aspire to. So you need to be interested in that world. So
you could never have done that in finance, I bet, because you would have just got bored at some
point because it wasn't floating your boat. At that time, I thought like, okay, I will work
like this and maybe I will go teaching. Right. Okay. So you would turn it into something where
you could breathe a bit of life into it, a bit of passion, whatever. So what was interesting,
what you were saying earlier was about when you were facing all of those challenges in Ukraine,
working for the big businesses and learning was paying attention to the moments of joy or the
moments of success, even if it was just a few seconds of, oh, I sorted that or I did that well.
And I think, again, that's something that so many people forget to do. Like the brain is hardwired
towards the risks and the threats so much that we can get immersed in the things that have gone
wrong or the problems that are coming. But to have the presence of mind to just take a moment
and go, ah, that was great. I mean, that's just brilliant. I absolutely love that. Just that you
have that built in ingrained somehow. And, you know, maybe that's come from grandma, maybe that's
come from your life so far. In general, it's more from other people around. So I'm the person who,
like, so I achieve something and I already think how I will achieve next level. So in general,
it's usually people around me, like who knows what I'm doing. They're like, oh, wow, you do it. And
like, yeah. And you start to recognize. Yeah, yes. That it's, oh, for example, I'm not really
sociable person, really. Like I'm not, but I do my social media, do posts. And in general,
I have few followers, but it's not for them. It's more for me. So when I do a post, especially about
project or about business and sharing with something, I'm like, you know, how to say,
reflecting. So I'm like, okay, we, uh, it was this, this, this, I'm done this, this, this.
And actually we became for this result. So this is a moment when you can, you know, look on it
and like, okay, well done. Actually. Yeah. I have a results. I have a progress because every day
you have like so many tasks, so many thoughts, so many ideas or something or problems, and you
can forget about it. But when you do like this little practices, like you're speaking with your
friends or with your colleagues, or you just posting something, uh, it helps you understand
actually what you've done. Yeah. It helps you as you say, to understand it and appreciate it and,
and notice it. There's also, I mean, all of the research into resilience. So people who are
more resilient tend to have had more challenging histories. So we tend to think of resilience as
something that you have or haven't got, but actually it's a learned skill. And one of the
things really resilient people do habitually is look back and think about what did I learn yesterday
that I can apply today? And that's in essence, what you're saying then, isn't it? And you're
using social media. I've never heard it described like that. So using it, not necessarily as PR
marketing or business development and all those things that it's badged as, but you're using it
as a personal reflection and tool of recognition. That's cool. I'm going to think about my social
media like that. So hopefully that will motivate me to do more of it. Cause I really liked that.
How did you feel about your success? Cause you, so you'd been successful before the war came to
Ukraine. Quite successful in Eugene. How were you feeling at that point about yourself before the
war came? How did you feel career wise at that point? I was like 29 and in general I felt
really strong and I had my job, can afford myself a lot of things. I separated with my ex partner
and I started life again in new city. So I moved to Kiev. I live in quite nice place. I travel it.
So in general, I thought like adult strong woman who can enjoy her life. I had issues of course,
we all have it at some point, but in general, yeah, like I felt like I'm really, you know,
this feelings of independence of that you like strong, that you can do everything.
I like, for example, when I went to negotiate with someone, I always negotiate only with the
business owners because that business owners told, Oh, if Yanat come into a meeting, we should be
there because like it will be, she will broke everyone. In general, like when I come into the
office, door will open only when we will get on all my conditions. So like, you know, Yanat,
I like this feeling. I hope I will have it again. I have no doubt you will. So you were feeling good.
You were feeling strong. You felt your life was going in the direction you wanted it to.
And you had this independence and this feeling of confidence. So tell us about that day then,
the day you left. So we had a lot of gossips before that something going to happen,
but nobody really believe in it. Like how it can be possible center of Europe, this war like this,
like, no, no, no. I had a lot of, so in general war started in 2014 and I had a lot of friends
who came from Donetsk and Lugansk to Kharkiv and Kiev. So they shared this experience with me before
how they run, what actually you should do. But I didn't believe I made a new collection for brand.
We invested a lot of money in this collection and yeah, in general, I really, so I had the
conversation again with my ex partner. He told me like, just in case, take some cash and documents.
And we even had the jokes about this emergency case that should be any, because we all be stressed,
but nobody actually believed. And then yeah, that day, I always wake up early, but it was like
at 5 a.m. I woke up from explosion and I didn't understand what's happened. So I checked my phone,
open social media and one of my friends who lives near airport, she told like airport was bombed,
airport was bombed, war started. And I was like, what? And wake up and I remember that I had panic.
But in general, so I started to call everyone to wake them up. One of my best friends at that time,
she already lived here in Huddersfield for years, but her parents, they live really close to the
Russian border. So I called her and said like, I know we had a war here, wake up your parents,
they shouldn't leave because it's the first territory that they will invade it. And they
have in that town, they have like big warehouse with weapons. So it's strategically clear that
they go there first. So I called her and then I started to wake up all my friends. And one couple,
they've been in Barcelona and should come back in this day. And I called them to say that they
shouldn't come back, but they said, no, we actually already here. And our plane was the last one who
landed, which landed. And they told me like, we going to the west of Ukraine. We have one free
place in the car. If you want to go with us, we will take you for 15 minutes because like it was
big panic and all people start to go and they left the cars. It was actually everything looked like in
a horror movie, but it, and you can understand that it's actually it's real life. So this air alarm,
there's cars. And so I lived in 15 minutes from my office. So I went to office, took a laptop,
clothes, everything like took some stuff. My friends came and I remember this way from the
office to my home. First of all, it was some Russians there. I don't know who are they. So
with some men who walk and laughing. So they see how people like scary and panicking and running.
And they walked and laughing. I was so scared about them. So I came home, put my
rucksack, laptop documents, some cash, but I took a few purses, like expensive one in case I need to
sell them and get some money. And that's all. I jumped in the car of my friends and we went to
Lviv. The way were really long and all people like panicking. So the road was crazy. The situation
on the road was crazy, really. All like trying to get first, like no rules, nothing like all people
panicking really. Yeah. And I remember that all the way I look at the sky and afraid to see a
rocket or something. And you just, you just don't understand like what's happening.
It sounds surreal in a way. Like you said, it felt like you were in a movie,
like this can't be real, but it's happening. And, but what's the, what's the strange at that moment
that you understand that actually nothing, not giving you any value. So I took my stuff,
like just rucksack, but all my clothes, all like stuff in my house, which I like, I dream about
before I worked so hard to get it, you know, like make my home, like my home. And I left apartment
and I thought, probably I will never come back here and probably I'll never see my apartment again.
At that second, you understand how miserable, like miserable is it, how
it's not making any value in your life. When, when the question about just survive
physically in general, it's not bringing any value in your life. You must grieve for that,
not necessarily the lost possessions, although maybe a few of the lost possessions, but,
but to grieve for that life you had and that world that was there, that was yours. And,
and someone just came and decided to take it from you. It was funny that they were taking,
which I mean, the lack of humanity in that, that that's a whole different psychology going on there.
So there was some preparation going on there for you, even though you said none of us really
believed it, none of it, you and your partner at the time was still joking about, well, let's just
get a bag ready anyway. So, so on some level, there was some kind of, just like, you know,
just, yeah, preparation that probably, you know, served you very well on that day when,
when you had to go and you were given 15 minutes to go and then you ended up in Huddersfield.
And that was that with Anna, the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, UKO program wasn't open at
the beginning. So I left Ukraine. Uh, I spent some time in Germany, then in France. And then, uh,
my friends, uh, heard about the, uh, hosting program in the UK that it will be opening.
And they proposed me if I want to move here. And for me, first of all, they are, they are my close
friends. And like at that time I was like, yes, of course I want to be with someone because I
didn't understand where I am, what I'm doing. I thought that at least I can speak English.
So yeah, I was like, yes, of course I want to go. And they were one of the first people who
actually filled the form and sent the request for hosting me. And to go and stay with friends as
well, to not just be, I know a lot of people came over and they were hosted by wonderful people who'd
volunteered, which is just makes, brings a tear to the eye. But for you to go to friends, that
must've been so, so much more reassuring. And we laughed then about the English because you'd said
the Yorkshire accent through you didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. I thought like, okay, I know English. I can,
at least I can speak with the people. But when I just came in like, oh my God,
I don't understand anyone. The things, one thing that in general, I could say something.
And yeah, so local people can understand me, but I couldn't understand anyone. And it was really
strange. I couldn't like, wow, it's totally different English that I know, you know. So yeah,
for three months was really strange with adaptation for the language. And my friend's family actually
helps a lot because they from Yorkshire also, and we spoke a lot and I met a lot of people here.
I didn't speak a lot at the beginning of the most, I'm more like, but it's, it helps me to,
in general now I understand almost everyone. Sometimes not, but in general,
I think even English people sometimes find Yorkshire people hard to understand. So with a really
broad accent. When we spoke before this, you said that you'd applied for a few different jobs that
you wanted to find, you know, something to do. You wanted to earn your own money. You wanted to have
a sense of kind of purpose and something to do, but that you struggled with that. And then you
said there was this moment, was it standing in your friend's kitchen? Yeah. So tell us about that
moment. So yes, I tried to find a job, but in general, you know, like this, my business mind,
you can do anything with it. I always put myself in this position. So in this trouble. So yeah,
I thought about what can I do because I was struggled with the finding some work. What can
I do? How can I use my knowledge and skills and experience because I had quite big experience
and do something. And my main goal was help somehow people in Ukraine. And also, I didn't
like the situation that I'm a refugee here and I'm getting benefit. I want to get like proper money,
pay taxes, assimilate and be a part of society here. Like I'm here already and probably I will
stay here as long as government will let me to stay. It was like existential problem for me. Like
what should I do for it? How can I use everything that I know to do it? And yeah, I came up with
this idea to take actually the business model from my previous company and turn it a little bit.
So, because I have quite good knowledge and I started to make some research in the local market.
Unfortunately, we have quite powerful industry, fashion industry, like producing the clothes in
Ukraine, but unfortunately it works for Russia before. Like Ukrainian market was quite big,
46 million people plus Russian market 160 million people. So, and like Kazakhstan and all that part
of the continent. So, I thought if we will turn this and go to another one part and I start to
make a research about price, about local propositions, it's really important to find a right idea to
understand the market and bring this idea really useful and something that will decide and solve
the lots of questions or problems of decline in the market. So, I looked at the market and I
saw empty places in the market and I found that I can feel it by Ukrainian products or services.
So, at the beginning it was like I found all these empty places and I said, okay, we can bring it,
we can turn this industry and bring it here. And I thought only about UK at that time. Okay,
let's try. And I thought that I saw that it should be really popular, it will solve some problems
and for local people, of course, for Ukrainians because they need a market.
And it was pure experiment, pure risk. So, you were taking that business in the Ukraine that had been
focused on the Ukraine internally, but also Russia, Kazakhstan and turning it towards Europe, the UK
initially, but then Europe, America's and so you're thinking we'll sell in the other direction. That
was your idea. Who did you go to first? So, you're standing in the kitchen, you have this idea. So,
what was your first step in that? I called my ex-partner. Did you? Again, everything again.
He's a bit of a rock star in this journey. I called him, share this idea and he again like,
okay, try. Easy, easy peasy. Okay, so I started to make a business plan,
make it more from idea to some steps to do. Yeah, and I started to do it actually
the next day. Then I shared with the family where I live, host family, like a father of this family.
He has, he had a friend, he was, I will connect you with him. That friend sent request to Yorkshire
Post about that I'm here. And in general, they asking for me for interview just because I was
a refugee, first refugee here. And in this interview, I mentioned about my business idea
he was like, what are you going to do? And I'm like, just mentioned about it. So, they made
a post in LinkedIn. And I got so many comments, like people who wants to help, who proposed
meeting, I don't know, them services, them knowledges. And it was, oh, wow. So it actually,
I just mentioned, and this situation take me and, you know, put me in a place where I'm like,
I can't think I can't like, all this amazing people give me so many opportunities, not use it,
it would be pretty stupid. So yeah, I'm like, I had no any, no doubts about it.
Georgie Tunny That must have been wonderful to get that response. Because not only are you getting
the practical help where people are saying, well, we can do this, I can do that. But you're getting
the reassurance of your idea. Yeah, in general, a bit of social support there. You say, do this,
you should do this. I found that I'm probably really lucky to start my way here in Yorkshire.
Because I found the Yorkshire people is really kind, and really supportive, involved in and,
you know, like, helpful, they, they really want to help. They really kind, they always
is so many people here, like really, I felt really welcoming everywhere. And that was,
that was cool. I think it's, it's something what happened with me in, like, in the right moment in
the right place with the right people. Of course, it helps a lot.
Georgie Tunny And that's so lovely to hear, I think, because I certainly post Brexit, the UK
has a bit of a bad reputation, maybe across Europe for being, you know, a bit distant and wanted to
do our own thing. And I certainly recognized, obviously, you experienced it in real time,
but I recognize how much people just wanted to help when the war broke out in Ukraine. I think
the fact that we'd all just gone through COVID. And certainly your experience of walking down
the street that day, and war has started is nothing, is so much more than what we all
experienced. But I think the fact that we had all experienced a life changing event, where we had
to stay home and not go out and not see our loved ones. It's that thing, isn't it, that you have so
much more empathy for someone going through a difficult time, if you've experienced a flavor
of it, even if it's just a flavor of it. So there was something there about, I think people really
wanted to do something and they leaned into it. That's lovely that they all leaned into.
But I think it's something about your DNA, you know, even with the war, like this country, so
old, if I can say so, yeah, has a big history, huge history, sometimes cruel history. And all this,
I think, maybe it sounds a little bit weird, but all this leaves something in your mentality,
how they open them doors for another people who are running from the war. It's a lot of refugees
here, a lot. How they're keen to help and, you know, like do something good. It's something,
I think, sometimes that's something about your DNA. It's the opposite of the propaganda, maybe,
that you get about the country, in reality. All countries, they have their own, you know,
history and way to go. At some point, this is, this has happened, Brexit happened. At some point,
it's nothing about people. It's about some historical moment. Ukrainians didn't deserve
a war in general, you know. It's not about us. It's about some historical...
It's just the things that are going on around us. Yeah, no, absolutely.
So it's more, I think it's more personality. It's more about how you...
I like that. That's lovely. That's really nice. It's interesting what you say about the UK and
having a personality. I think social identity theory, which is big within the world of psychology,
teaches us how much we take from the groups that we associate with. So everything from the small
groups, we have our own family, our own profession, but to big culture. And we take part of our
identity. If we, as a person, we're like a pie and some of us is, Yana, as the personality,
you genetically got from your kind of family history, but other bits of that pie will be fed
by the different groups of people, the different social groups. And that big culture is something
that feeds into us. And when we're told about our history and our legacy, I know something that's
always really made me feel proud of being British, despite some of the things we did in the past that
maybe weren't so nice, is that we have always had an open door. There is really very... It's very
hard to trace our indigenous population. We were Vikings, Saxons, Romans, and on it went. So we've
always been a melting pot and we've always taken in people, sometimes for industrial economic reasons,
sometimes because they were running from something. But I think that forms... We talked about that in
school and it forms part of how you see the world, how you see yourself. And then that obviously
drives your values. So when people turn up saying, we need help, part of your social identity is that,
well, we're British, we help. And I think that that's a really powerful thing that you've actually
seen that manifest. So you had this support in Yorkshire, the Yorkshire Post, a bit of a lift off.
And so where are you now? So we're now, what, two years on from that idea in the kitchen. So where
have you taken it to? What are you... Yeah, that two years were crazy. We started from open the first
pop-up shop in Leeds, in Victoria Quarter, then in Trinity. I started quite unexpectedly for myself.
I started wholesale business and we really quick. So first year, it was only retail in the UK and I
couldn't... So in my mind, I was quite scared and I didn't think globally. I thought about UK, we
will try here, how to say it, put the feet on the water and then we will see. But wholesale and global
business came quick and unexpectedly for me. So I tried one channel and it's like, boom, exploded.
Like I got first few wholesale partners. I feel the wave and just start to grow in this way.
So I feel that this wholesale business, it's actually what I need where I can get quick,
more money and quickly give it to the Ukrainian manufacturers, pay taxes here, start do it now.
Because retail business quite tricky, needs more investment and it's slower. So you pivoted quite
quickly when you saw that... I add. In general, for these two years, I changed my business strategy
like thousands of times. So I think, okay, we will go this. Something happened. So I add and like,
I'm, you know, from one stone, I just draw it and try to do. So I see opportunities. Okay,
how can I implement it in my business? How can I do? What can I do for make it growing?
And in general, yeah, at the moment we have, I count two days ago, 118 wholesale partners across
three continents. So we're selling in USA, Canada, Australia, in Europe. I thought about British
market, but in general, British market, unfortunately has one of the smallest percent.
But that doesn't matter now.
No, it's just, yeah, it's just how everything started in my head and how it's totally different.
Different. Yeah. So that you need to be really adaptable. So it sounds like you've been really
adaptable. You've obviously moved at pace. And again, there's that echo of this was really
stressful. This was really scary, but you kept going. You didn't stop and think it's too scary.
You just kept going. You kept going, didn't you?
Yeah, but I don't have a lot of choice. So let's say I'm here. I have no home. I have no job. Do
I have a lot of ways to move? No, I have this and that's all. It's all that I can do. Probably in
general. Now I think that, okay, I could choose easier way to get a job somewhere. And like,
but now when I started and I see that I can do it, I feel really big social responsibility
that like few brands in my portfolio, I helped them a lot. Save the working places. We paying
taxes, like we do a lot. And I see that I can do it for more and more and more. And it started
grow quite fast. And I see opportunity. I see that I can handle it. But in general, yeah, a lot of
people, wow, you start so quick. You like you just came and you already do something. But I don't
have, I didn't have options in general. I need to, I need to eat. I need to cover my bills. I need
to do so. It's, it wasn't like I sit and think, okay, should I do it? Should, shouldn't I do it?
Like it's not that way. Yeah. And it possibly wasn't in you either. I'm sure there are some
people that might've just sunk into a bit of helplessness maybe in that situation.
I don't understand the language. I'm in a foreign place. I don't know how to get work. I've been for
interviews and I'm not getting the work. And, and I think it would be very easy for people to
sink into that. Again, it's about personality also. So it's about character. It's about
all that experience that I had in my life, which applying it. Yeah. And just, which make me my
character as who I am. So yeah. And I think the genius of it all is like you say that the
motivationally, there's a necessity there. Absolutely. I get that. But the genius of what
you did was you thought what skills have I got to apply to this problem in my homeland? And also the
fact that I feel like I'm being looked after by a country that I do. Like how do I map those things
together? And then you found an idea, which as you said, then evolved quite dramatically. So that
initial idea probably isn't much like what you have now, but that doesn't matter. It was the thing
that got you going, wasn't it? And then that ability to pivot and flex and learn. But most
importantly, I think the thing that's striking me about your personality on it is it's just that
feeling the fear and doing it anyway. Just, you know, it's scary. I don't know if I can do it.
I'm not sure where it's going, but just keep moving. Yeah. And yeah, I know that not all
people can do it. I know that a lot of people have, I had fairs also, but they sometimes can
be stuck with the fairs. Or for example, my first exhibition for wholesale, I took three suitcases,
really heavy. I don't drive a car. I put it on, like I carry it by myself on a few buses
to get somewhere. So it's not every person can do it and even will consider to do it. So it's all
about how interested you are in it, how crazy you are. Because I sometimes, if I'm stuck with
something, it's like no way that I'm like, I don't give up with this. But you're picking things that
you're very passionate about or that mean something to you from changing to design when you're a
youngster to adapting to this awful life changing experience and thinking, well, how can I do
something productive with the things I've got? How can I turn it into an opportunity? And also
really important thing that I want to mention that it's also about, for example, I have a business
and again, I have startup again. I'm started from the zero. It's hard. I didn't have a lot of money
to start it. And yeah, it's hard. It's hard to run it. All depends how prepared you are. For example,
my friends who has regular job, they're having money or stability. Their income is always in time.
They know how much they earn, can plan them life, vacation and everything. When you have your own
business, it should be your lifestyle and you should be ready that you don't plan anything.
Anything. So first of all, when you have a startup, your income can be good today and low tomorrow.
It's a lot of risks. You should understand it. You should be prepared for it. You should wait.
My company has evaluation like publicly evaluation, one million dollar for today or one million pound
for today. But I can afford a lot of things. But my friends, for example, who works in a regular
work, they can afford a lot of they can afford traveling everywhere. So it's about to be prepared
for it and understand it that it's not something that you come in, do it easy and like enjoy your
life. No, it's work. It will be hard. It will be stressful. Your first five years of the business,
it's total hell. You don't understand anything. You just have idea. You like trying to make a system
and, you know, the right business model and checking what works with it. And the same was
my first business. First five years, I haven't seen money. Like you get something, you reinvest,
you get reinvest, you get reinvest. And it's like total totally crazy. Sometimes people give up on
this stage because not all ready for it. And it's normal. Not all ready for it. Not all want to
handle it. Sometimes I even me sometimes think what I'm doing. Like I'm 32. I want like leave,
be like relaxed, enjoy my life. I think that's quite normal that you should have that thought
because I think it is like you say, it's really, really hard. And it makes more sense why actually
make taking that time to reflect on the winds along the way and the little successes along the
way, the power of your own belief in what you're doing and then the impact that has on other people
who can change your destiny, but also can change the destiny of all those people you're trying to
help back in the Ukraine. So I think you've done something really fabulous and you should feel
incredibly proud. Hopefully I'm like, I don't feel that I've done a lot, but I hope that I will.
That I will. Now you don't feel like you finished. No, no, no. It's just, you know, I've found like
the source and I like, and I feel that it's right source of, for my business, for helping. So it's
just the beginning. Really. It's just really beginning. So going back to the beginning,
if you think back to your teenage self, so you know, when you're at that age where you're telling
grandma wants to do design and she's like, no, no, no, go off and get yourself a proper job.
Yeah. What would that Jana think about what you're doing now?
Oh, no, I think that Jana would think that I'm cool.
She would love your outfits. Yeah, at least. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had totally different pattern.
And in general, actually all that I do, I'm treating my inner child. I'm treating that Jana.
So I do all her dreams come true. I try to spoil her. I try to give that child all that she wants
and couldn't have it at that time. And I try to, yeah, make all her dreams, ambitions. And
in general, probably that's all that I'm doing is to make her dreams.
So when we talk about what motivates you, there it is, isn't it? Yeah. Making her dreams come true.
And that's the fuel. And even when faced with setbacks, tricky times, panic attacks,
fleeing war, you're still working hard to make her dreams come true.
What advice would you give her? If you could whisper in her ear, what would you tell her
that might make her journey a little easier? Maybe don't be afraid. You can do it.
And you are absolute proof of that. It's been absolutely wonderful. Is there anything that you
would like to share with our listeners about your wonderful business or about your journey?
Anything that you would want to leave as a here? So probably all that I can say, don't be afraid.
Don't be afraid. We all do a lot of mistakes. Life is a tricky. Everything can happen, divorcing,
like, I don't know, wars, everything. But all people can go through it. Just don't be afraid.
Do steps. Don't sit and think a lot. Do steps. And step by step, it will bring you for something.
If you will see it and think about it and, you know, like about risks, about fears,
about everything, it's not bringing you anywhere. You will see it and think about it. It's not give
you any results, any benefit. So it's that thing about to survive whatever bad thing has come your
way and to succeed. You've got to take a bit of control and be productive and move forward and
not sit in the anxiety or the sadness that might be going on. We all have our time. Like one day
you can see it and I don't know, think about how in your pajamas, eating cake. It's okay.
Yeah, it's okay. That's good. I'm glad you said that. Yeah, me too. But in general,
if you want to handle the situation, you should do something. That's all. Put yourself, you have
your time, put yourself together and just step by step. Don't rush. When I just came here, I met
a woman, she's a refugee from Venezuela and she also lost her business, but she was here with the
family. And she also wrote me in LinkedIn and all her advice was don't be rushed. And at that time,
I was like, no, it's not about me. But in general, I understand why she told it because
you shouldn't expect a lot like for one year, for example, step by step, just do it, like do
something that will bring you to the place where you want to be. Don't expect that it will be
tomorrow. And that insight, I think from your leadership journey is that just holding your
nerve, holding your nerve, using your intellect, actually leaning into the people who support you,
your friends, your partners, your ex partners, anybody who has those positive words to fuel you
and support you, they are really powerful lessons. It's an amazing thing to do with all your skills
and clearly it matters very much to you and it matters very much to the people in your homeland.
It matters very much to the people of Yorkshire, I believe. And we should be very proud that you
are part of the UK economy, I think doing something really quite innovative.
Yeah, hopefully I can do even better and better. And yeah, I love this country and I love people
here and it's really important to feel yourself at home where you live, especially when you have no
home. So I want to feel here like I belong to it and pay taxes and be like a part of society.
It's actually what the feelings coming from. We all, it's how the economy works, not in any
different way, it's only this way. I love it, Yana. I actually just want my daughters to just
follow you around with just a message of just listen to every word this woman says.
Because I think your values, your work ethic, your approach, your mindset is all lovely.
It's been an absolute pleasure and I could sit here all day, I think, talking to you about this.
But thank you so much for joining us. It's been a delight.
Thank you so much for having me.
Coming up in Leadership Journeys.
I grew up in a council house in a part of Bradford called Lilycroft and I didn't know anybody who'd
gone to university on our estate where we lived. Don't give yourself false ceilings,
don't give yourself false limitations. It isn't a limitation that you were born in a council house
in Bradford.