WEBVTT 00:00:18.250 --> 00:00:21.530 Conversations podcast. I'm your host Becky Hill, 00:00:21.969 --> 00:00:24.710 otherwise known as Soul Chaser Becky and I am 00:00:24.710 --> 00:00:27.570 a proud Viking geek. I fell in love with the 00:00:27.570 --> 00:00:29.750 history, culture and mythology of the Viking 00:00:29.750 --> 00:00:32.310 Age and I have been on an endless quest for more 00:00:32.310 --> 00:00:36.450 ever since. Join me as I discuss all things North 00:00:36.450 --> 00:00:38.609 with those who have been inspired by Viking Age 00:00:38.609 --> 00:00:40.969 history and North mythology in their creative 00:00:40.969 --> 00:00:43.929 works or those who have studied the sagas and 00:00:43.929 --> 00:00:47.039 archaeology and review. how such subjects are 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:50.200 being presented to modern audiences today. If 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:53.479 you like Viking stuff you are welcome in my Valhalla 00:00:53.479 --> 00:01:11.230 and I hope you stay for the conversation. Welcome 00:01:11.230 --> 00:01:13.989 everyone to Valhalla Conversations podcast, where 00:01:13.989 --> 00:01:16.290 we talk all things north, whether it's history, 00:01:16.489 --> 00:01:20.569 mythology, artifacts, sagas, poetics, and of 00:01:20.569 --> 00:01:22.430 course, everything that's been reinterpreted 00:01:22.430 --> 00:01:25.250 and retold since. And today I am delighted to 00:01:25.250 --> 00:01:29.689 welcome our 21st guest to Valhalla, Terry, otherwise 00:01:29.689 --> 00:01:32.329 known as Biani the Cabbage Killer. Welcome Terry 00:01:32.329 --> 00:01:37.859 to Valhalla. Hello. Glad to be here. I'm very 00:01:37.859 --> 00:01:39.980 pleased to welcome you. Now, I guess we should 00:01:39.980 --> 00:01:41.980 probably explain to our viewers and listeners 00:01:41.980 --> 00:01:44.739 why you're known as Biani the Cabbage Killer. 00:01:46.379 --> 00:01:50.579 Well, it's my Viking nickname, which was given 00:01:50.579 --> 00:01:54.799 to me about 10 or 11 years ago now. Actually, 00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:58.299 no, even longer. Don't the years build up? So 00:01:58.299 --> 00:02:00.939 it's probably about 11 or 12 years ago now when 00:02:00.939 --> 00:02:05.439 I was at a big science festival called Big Bang 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:09.379 Fair. And I was doing a weapons demonstration 00:02:09.379 --> 00:02:13.319 using sharp weapons, all about the physics of 00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:17.719 weapons. And I had a crowd of kids all around 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:25.500 me, behind barriers, I should say. And at the 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:30.919 end of it, so what I do at the end is I use a 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:34.009 cabbage. It has to be a specific type of cabbage. 00:02:34.949 --> 00:02:38.289 Otherwise, it doesn't hold up very well. And 00:02:38.289 --> 00:02:40.530 so I was using the sharp weapons on that. And 00:02:40.530 --> 00:02:43.430 I finished off with slicing it up with a Danax. 00:02:45.050 --> 00:02:47.669 And after I'd gone back to my main store, where 00:02:47.669 --> 00:02:51.129 I have all my display and everything, I was just 00:02:51.129 --> 00:02:53.550 setting up. And this little lad, about 10 years 00:02:53.550 --> 00:02:57.330 old, so he's probably a year five or year six. 00:02:57.750 --> 00:02:59.610 And he comes up to me, and he looks at me, and 00:02:59.610 --> 00:03:04.520 he says, you're bianni the cabbage killer I thought 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:10.419 that is now my name so given to me by a 10 year 00:03:10.419 --> 00:03:14.879 old lad at say at the Big Bang Fair in the NEC 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:19.099 in Birmingham that is awesome and that actually 00:03:19.099 --> 00:03:23.069 really suits the whole I guess the idea behind 00:03:23.069 --> 00:03:25.389 all these Norse nicknames that we hear about 00:03:25.389 --> 00:03:28.689 in sagas and poetics. Exactly, exactly. Which 00:03:28.689 --> 00:03:31.710 is Bjarne, not Bjarne, Longbreeches. Oh my god, 00:03:31.909 --> 00:03:34.189 something Longbreeches. Ragnar, was it Ragnar? 00:03:34.270 --> 00:03:36.509 That was it Ragnar Longbreeches because he supposedly 00:03:36.509 --> 00:03:42.229 wore hairy trousers of sorts. Yes, yeah, so yeah, 00:03:43.150 --> 00:03:47.370 my nickname was actually given to me, as all 00:03:47.370 --> 00:03:49.349 nicknames should be. You can't just take one 00:03:49.349 --> 00:03:54.069 for yourself. That is very fitting and elaborating 00:03:54.069 --> 00:03:55.949 further on that because as you mentioned you 00:03:55.949 --> 00:03:59.229 were to a big science fair, the big bang, this 00:03:59.229 --> 00:04:01.550 is because your main role is not just talking 00:04:01.550 --> 00:04:04.689 about Viking history but connecting it to the 00:04:04.689 --> 00:04:07.569 modern knowledge of science that we all have 00:04:07.569 --> 00:04:10.930 today for children in primary schools and beyond. 00:04:11.490 --> 00:04:14.669 That is true, yeah, yeah, so I'm known as the 00:04:14.669 --> 00:04:17.490 science Viking, that's like my website scienceviking 00:04:17.490 --> 00:04:23.459 .com because While I've been a Viking Rean actor 00:04:23.459 --> 00:04:32.000 for 36 years now, I was also a science teacher. 00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:36.680 And so when I left formal teaching, I actually 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:39.560 set up to do science parties and science shows. 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:42.180 I had a couple of science shows that I did at 00:04:42.180 --> 00:04:44.339 other science festivals, British Science Festival 00:04:44.339 --> 00:04:49.360 and whatever. And they went really well. um sort 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:51.079 of travel universities and what we're doing that 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:54.019 but it was too much like hard work and i thought 00:04:54.019 --> 00:04:59.800 why why don't i merge my love of history and 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:02.899 the re -enactment with the science so i became 00:05:02.899 --> 00:05:07.040 the science viking um by when i'm teaching about 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:09.379 vikings then i also include a lot of the science 00:05:09.379 --> 00:05:11.459 in there because there's loads and loads of science 00:05:11.459 --> 00:05:14.819 you know weapons is all about physics and so 00:05:14.819 --> 00:05:19.500 are ships really um and the various things like 00:05:19.500 --> 00:05:21.720 the Viking Sunstone and their navigation and 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:24.180 everything. That's all physics and chemistry. 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:31.279 And then, of course, I can do the anatomy, depending 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:33.500 on how gory they want the stories of battles 00:05:33.500 --> 00:05:39.879 to get. But these things naturally go together. 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:44.939 And so my whole philosophy is when I go into 00:05:44.939 --> 00:05:47.839 a school or when I'm display into the public 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:52.000 at an event or something I I always sort of say 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.000 like this this is the way that teaching used 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:57.160 to be many many years ago where it's not like 00:05:57.160 --> 00:05:59.639 it is all artificial in schools where you do 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:03.319 one one lesson is all about this and the next 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:05.079 lesson is all about this and the next lesson 00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:07.360 is yeah it's this topic here and none of those 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:11.420 things are allowed to touch yeah boxes not allowed 00:06:11.420 --> 00:06:14.889 to touch each other um well yeah they should 00:06:14.889 --> 00:06:16.550 be touched and in fact they should all be jumbled 00:06:16.550 --> 00:06:19.509 up together because the way we learn best is 00:06:19.509 --> 00:06:21.329 by learning about lots of different things and 00:06:21.329 --> 00:06:25.069 how they're all interrelated all at once. So 00:06:25.069 --> 00:06:27.550 that's what we do. So they learn about history 00:06:27.550 --> 00:06:31.730 and they also get the science as well. Sometimes 00:06:31.730 --> 00:06:35.009 without realising it. I know that it certainly 00:06:35.009 --> 00:06:38.569 makes a point when I think about Viking Age shipbuilders 00:06:38.569 --> 00:06:42.069 and how they kind of like use the science of 00:06:42.279 --> 00:06:44.399 I presume, I'm going to say fire but I could 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:46.500 be wrong, kind of like to help shape the wood 00:06:46.500 --> 00:06:48.360 and to kind of like carve the wood but also to 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:51.439 like typical mixes such as all the tar that they 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:53.279 used to kind of like waterproof everything and 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:55.740 make them stick and it's just there's so much 00:06:55.740 --> 00:06:59.720 to it as well as kind of like... Obviously back 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:03.300 in those days it wasn't science and all science 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:07.720 is just Latin for knowledge and so they would 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:09.699 have all that knowledge but that would all be 00:07:09.699 --> 00:07:11.660 sort of practical knowledge that's built up. 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:14.680 a lot of it through trial and error, but building, 00:07:15.100 --> 00:07:17.699 it's also science is building on what's gone 00:07:17.699 --> 00:07:21.220 before. So you know something works, then you 00:07:21.220 --> 00:07:22.879 find out that something works, and then you think, 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:24.959 right, how can I improve on that? And that's 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:28.540 how things go. And so, yeah, nowadays, we call 00:07:28.540 --> 00:07:30.339 it science, but the end of the day, all it is 00:07:30.339 --> 00:07:33.000 just knowledge. And it's just, we have a greater 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:35.779 knowledge about how these things work, because 00:07:35.779 --> 00:07:37.860 we understand the chemistry and the physics behind 00:07:37.860 --> 00:07:42.029 it. That's all it is. Yeah. I mean it's making 00:07:42.029 --> 00:07:45.110 me think now to of course the different accounts 00:07:45.110 --> 00:07:46.410 that you sometimes come across, although I've 00:07:46.410 --> 00:07:48.550 come across it mostly in historical fiction more 00:07:48.550 --> 00:07:51.269 than actual non -fiction, but kind of like when 00:07:51.269 --> 00:07:54.089 someone's received a gut wound they drink something 00:07:54.089 --> 00:07:56.050 that's really strong and pungent, usually onions. 00:07:56.569 --> 00:07:59.189 It's always onions. Just see if they can smell 00:07:59.189 --> 00:08:01.250 it coming out the other end, which is obviously 00:08:01.250 --> 00:08:02.889 a sign of a leakage, but then of course there's 00:08:02.889 --> 00:08:07.850 different probably herbal remedy type bandages 00:08:07.850 --> 00:08:09.709 or poultices that they would have treated to 00:08:09.709 --> 00:08:12.879 a common injuries back then, I suppose, to a 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:16.459 degree. Oh, yeah, exactly. Actually, that leads 00:08:16.459 --> 00:08:19.899 nicely on to an Anglo -Saxon medicine, Bald's 00:08:19.899 --> 00:08:24.519 I -Self, from Bald's Leech Book. Really? Yeah, 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:26.579 I don't know if you've ever heard of that. No, 00:08:26.620 --> 00:08:29.560 not heard of that at all. OK, so Bald's Leech 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:35.919 Book, which is in the British Library, and it's 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:39.909 a leech book. In Anglo -Saxon times, a leech 00:08:39.909 --> 00:08:45.789 was a doctor. A leech book is a collection of 00:08:45.789 --> 00:08:49.009 all his recipes and remedies for various ailments 00:08:49.009 --> 00:08:52.710 and illnesses and stuff. And so he'd written 00:08:52.710 --> 00:08:56.970 all this stuff down. It was written, I think, 00:08:57.289 --> 00:09:02.190 between about 940 and 970, or something like 00:09:02.190 --> 00:09:09.730 that, in Winchester. So Bald was a monk. And 00:09:09.730 --> 00:09:13.169 that document has come down through the ages, 00:09:14.190 --> 00:09:16.330 survived a few things together, you know, like 00:09:16.330 --> 00:09:18.870 Bay of Walsh and whatever, and it survived all 00:09:18.870 --> 00:09:24.230 this time. And back in 2015, 2016, there's Dr. 00:09:24.370 --> 00:09:27.029 Christina Lee at Nottingham University. Oh, yes, 00:09:27.110 --> 00:09:30.370 I know Christina. And she was translating it. 00:09:30.610 --> 00:09:34.950 Oh, wow. And she came across this recipe for 00:09:34.950 --> 00:09:41.070 a WEN, W -E -N. And to paraphrase and summarize, 00:09:41.289 --> 00:09:45.929 it basically says, take onions and garlic or 00:09:45.929 --> 00:09:51.370 leeks. So they called it onions and cropliatch, 00:09:51.830 --> 00:09:55.769 which is either garlic or leek, although garlic 00:09:55.769 --> 00:09:59.730 seems to be better. and mash them all up in a 00:09:59.730 --> 00:10:02.549 molten pestle and then to an equal amounts. And 00:10:02.549 --> 00:10:05.090 then to that, you take equal amounts of wine 00:10:05.090 --> 00:10:08.529 and ox gall, which is the bile from the gallbladder 00:10:08.529 --> 00:10:12.009 of a cow. Yeah, lovely stuff. And you mix them 00:10:12.009 --> 00:10:14.730 all together. And it says to do it in a brass 00:10:14.730 --> 00:10:18.610 vessel and then leave it for nine nights. And 00:10:18.610 --> 00:10:21.309 then on the 10th day, you strain it through a 00:10:21.309 --> 00:10:23.909 cloth to clarify, get rid of all the bits. And 00:10:23.909 --> 00:10:30.120 then it says, apply at night. to the eye with 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:35.299 a feather. And afterwards, it also says the best 00:10:35.299 --> 00:10:41.940 medicine. So the story is that when she read 00:10:41.940 --> 00:10:44.620 this, she knew about Freya Harrison, who's a 00:10:44.620 --> 00:10:50.059 Viking reenactor and was a microbiologist at 00:10:50.059 --> 00:10:53.039 Rottingham University as well. So they got together 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:55.559 because they had a common interest. So there's 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:58.190 medicine from the 10th century that says it's 00:10:58.190 --> 00:11:03.429 the best medicine. And Freya is a microbiologist 00:11:03.429 --> 00:11:06.950 in the lab at the university. So I thought, why 00:11:06.950 --> 00:11:09.970 don't they make some and try it out? So that's 00:11:09.970 --> 00:11:15.110 exactly what they did. Freya knows that. Oh, 00:11:15.110 --> 00:11:18.600 by the way, when. and again it's sort of like 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:22.039 a sort of a blemish a lump for a zit or something 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:26.000 and okay and this in particular case was a stye 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:30.679 on your eyelid which as a microbiologist knows 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:34.000 is caused by a bacterium staphylococcus aureus 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:39.899 so they got organic ingredients and they even 00:11:39.899 --> 00:11:42.159 tried to source them from the local area around 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:48.750 Winchester and they They had to use dried bile 00:11:48.750 --> 00:11:53.549 because you can't really make it anymore. The 00:11:53.549 --> 00:11:55.730 abattoirs won't send it to you when you have 00:11:55.730 --> 00:12:02.750 tried. But anyway, so they made it and they tried 00:12:02.750 --> 00:12:07.809 it on Staphylococcus aureus and it worked. When 00:12:07.809 --> 00:12:12.549 they put it in petri dishes, it actually killed 00:12:12.549 --> 00:12:19.029 the bacteria. So would domestos. You don't want 00:12:19.029 --> 00:12:22.610 to be putting bleach in your eye. No, as well. 00:12:22.730 --> 00:12:24.490 You can imagine if you know, because that's going 00:12:24.490 --> 00:12:28.230 to trickle into your eye, isn't it? That is onions, 00:12:28.590 --> 00:12:31.370 garlic. The wine obviously turns into vinegar 00:12:31.370 --> 00:12:35.269 plus all that mixture. That's going to sting 00:12:35.269 --> 00:12:38.529 like hell, isn't it? It's going to really sting. 00:12:39.590 --> 00:12:42.409 So you don't want to go for all that if it's 00:12:42.409 --> 00:12:46.049 not going to work. So. But also, if it's just 00:12:46.049 --> 00:12:47.809 like a bleaching agent, that could be dangerous 00:12:47.809 --> 00:12:50.529 to the eye. So when they tested it, they tested 00:12:50.529 --> 00:12:53.169 it against various forms of bacteria. And they 00:12:53.169 --> 00:12:55.309 found out that it worked differently against 00:12:55.309 --> 00:12:58.450 different bacteria. Some worked great, some middling, 00:12:58.470 --> 00:13:01.230 some not at all. So it's actually an antibiotic. 00:13:02.450 --> 00:13:05.830 And well, basically, to cut a long story short, 00:13:10.009 --> 00:13:14.429 it is currently, well, i've not i think the last 00:13:14.429 --> 00:13:16.570 paper i read was a couple of years ago but it 00:13:16.570 --> 00:13:18.690 did they tried to get it into clinical trials 00:13:18.690 --> 00:13:21.570 and it went through stage one like the safety 00:13:21.570 --> 00:13:24.909 tests with a healthy volunteer um but i don't 00:13:24.909 --> 00:13:26.610 think they've managed to get funding for it which 00:13:26.610 --> 00:13:30.490 is stupid as what they were aiming to use it 00:13:30.490 --> 00:13:34.830 as was a possible treatment for a drug -resistant 00:13:34.830 --> 00:13:39.590 diabetic ulcers which if you get an untreatable 00:13:39.590 --> 00:13:46.690 infection like well usually mrsa And our antibiotics 00:13:46.690 --> 00:13:49.090 are literally 50 -50, whether they work against 00:13:49.090 --> 00:13:54.669 MRSA. If they don't work, the treatment is amputation. 00:13:55.350 --> 00:13:58.889 Well, it turns out Bald's eye self kills MRSA 00:13:58.889 --> 00:14:03.149 better than anything we actually have. It is 00:14:03.149 --> 00:14:12.059 a powerful antibiotic. paper that I read on it 00:14:12.059 --> 00:14:15.480 it was saying that is basically because each 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:18.379 each of those individual ingredients is slightly 00:14:18.379 --> 00:14:21.299 antimicrobial but when you leave it and you let 00:14:21.299 --> 00:14:24.659 it brew for that nine nights basically to brew 00:14:24.659 --> 00:14:28.200 a nine is a is a good time because like yeah 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:31.679 that's three times three nine and three is a 00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:34.399 mystical number and multiples yeah so you've 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:38.059 got that but it turns out that nine nights is 00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:40.360 about how long it takes to get to its maximum 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:42.860 potency. And after that, it's dribbling away 00:14:42.860 --> 00:14:45.539 a bit. And don't leave it long enough. It's not 00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:48.279 as good. So in that time, there's all sorts of 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:50.159 chemical reactions going on in there as it's 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:56.080 brewing away. And they know that the compound 00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:58.379 is probably one of several compounds based around 00:14:58.379 --> 00:15:01.940 allicin, which is the antimicrobial compound 00:15:01.940 --> 00:15:08.250 in alliums. And so I think they're still They're 00:15:08.250 --> 00:15:10.009 probably one on the way to figuring out what 00:15:10.009 --> 00:15:12.009 all the active ingredients are but it's actually 00:15:12.009 --> 00:15:14.129 a combination of things rather than just the 00:15:14.129 --> 00:15:16.570 one thing that they like, you know, like aspirin 00:15:16.570 --> 00:15:21.370 is just that one ingredient salicylic acid. So 00:15:21.370 --> 00:15:23.190 yeah, but it's a lot of medicine isn't like that. 00:15:23.190 --> 00:15:25.049 It's a combination, especially natural remedies. 00:15:25.190 --> 00:15:27.549 It's a combination. So yeah, but it turns out 00:15:27.549 --> 00:15:30.110 it kills MRSA better than anything we currently 00:15:30.110 --> 00:15:31.909 have. So the fact that they've not been able 00:15:31.909 --> 00:15:35.850 to get funding for the clinical trials means 00:15:35.850 --> 00:15:40.440 a bit. To me, that sort of smacks of big pharma, 00:15:40.460 --> 00:15:43.879 don't it? Yeah. Yeah, because it's going to be 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:47.059 a cheap thing, because it's cheap ingredients. 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.019 And so it's probably not something they can make 00:15:50.019 --> 00:15:53.279 money out of. Yeah, which is, whenever I tell 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:59.399 this story, I always say, yeah, it's a good argument 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:01.259 for the nationalization of the pharmaceutical 00:16:01.259 --> 00:16:05.470 industry. That's a good point. couldn't be making 00:16:05.470 --> 00:16:12.090 profit out of people's illness, should you? Yeah, 00:16:12.149 --> 00:16:15.190 so anyway, so yeah, so it's a powerful, powerful 00:16:15.190 --> 00:16:17.190 antibiotic. And it comes all the way back from 00:16:17.190 --> 00:16:21.750 the 10th century, which together then, Christina 00:16:21.750 --> 00:16:24.950 and Freya, who I think last time I looked was 00:16:24.950 --> 00:16:28.049 now an assistant professor at Winchester University, 00:16:28.710 --> 00:16:34.360 not Winchester. Another one being worried. It's 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:38.159 in Warwickshire anyway Names fall out of your 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:42.259 head names always fall Anyway, yeah worried university. 00:16:42.259 --> 00:16:44.779 I think yes She's their assistant professor there 00:16:44.779 --> 00:16:47.240 now, but they set up this thing called the ancient 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:50.820 biotics project So there's a website which is 00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:56.840 using old manuscripts As an avenue of drug discovery 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:01.100 So yeah, which is new apparently in China. They've 00:17:01.100 --> 00:17:06.009 been doing this for years I dare say there's 00:17:06.009 --> 00:17:07.890 some Chinese person going to watch this and thinking, 00:17:07.950 --> 00:17:09.490 yeah, we've been doing that for years. You're 00:17:09.490 --> 00:17:15.390 only just catching up with us. But yeah, it's 00:17:15.390 --> 00:17:17.990 a new avenue of drug discovery. And they found 00:17:17.990 --> 00:17:20.789 quite a few using just quite common things, like 00:17:20.789 --> 00:17:23.109 even stinging nettles. There's all sorts of things 00:17:23.109 --> 00:17:25.809 they can use stinging nettles for. But this is 00:17:25.809 --> 00:17:29.529 all going through the proper scientific procedures. 00:17:30.289 --> 00:17:32.900 So yeah, so it's really, really good. Well, thanks 00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:35.640 for sharing that. That was a wonderful story 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:38.079 and stuff I've never heard of. I mean, I was 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:40.299 vaguely aware of Christina's work back when she 00:17:40.299 --> 00:17:43.299 was working on it. Yeah. And I think I read a 00:17:43.299 --> 00:17:46.140 blog post or interviewed somewhere about kind 00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:48.680 of medicine and injuries and Viking HIV. But 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:50.940 it was so long ago now. I think it was like definitely 00:17:50.940 --> 00:17:54.940 pre -before COVID. Yes. But yeah I remember meeting 00:17:54.940 --> 00:17:58.099 Christina at a couple of Viking aid symposiums 00:17:58.099 --> 00:17:59.880 or conferences that I got to go to like the Midlands 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:02.519 Viking symposium I got to go to for a number 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:04.420 of consecutive years and she was very welcoming 00:18:04.420 --> 00:18:06.640 considering I was one of the very few non -academics 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:08.859 there. Everyone else was studying it I was just 00:18:08.859 --> 00:18:11.220 like I just want to learn more for free without 00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:13.299 going to university because I can't afford it. 00:18:14.349 --> 00:18:16.410 as much as I would love to study it full -time 00:18:16.410 --> 00:18:18.750 professionally I just can't time and life and 00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:21.549 money are all against me and other things but 00:18:21.549 --> 00:18:23.670 yeah I would definitely be looking up that website 00:18:23.670 --> 00:18:26.069 later on because it and you're right about the 00:18:26.069 --> 00:18:29.190 kind of like the Chinese angle because everyone's 00:18:29.190 --> 00:18:30.769 familiar kind of like with the word of Chinese 00:18:30.769 --> 00:18:32.769 medicine but it always kind of even brings up 00:18:32.769 --> 00:18:34.650 the stereotype of something kind of like kooky 00:18:34.650 --> 00:18:36.750 involving kind of like weird things that you 00:18:36.750 --> 00:18:39.769 wouldn't usually put together but it's it it 00:18:39.769 --> 00:18:41.390 shows that they're kind of like they're acknowledging 00:18:41.390 --> 00:18:45.230 the versus us where we're all so kind of like 00:18:45.230 --> 00:18:47.829 we're so kind of like men and women of the 21st 00:18:47.829 --> 00:18:50.250 century going forward. We don't often look back 00:18:50.250 --> 00:18:53.329 and consider what people knew then as being worth 00:18:53.329 --> 00:18:55.710 what we know now. There's almost like a superiority 00:18:55.710 --> 00:18:58.450 -ness isn't there about knowledge now and knowledge 00:18:58.450 --> 00:19:01.089 then? Although I think the thing about Chinese 00:19:01.089 --> 00:19:04.390 traditional medicine, it's called Chinese traditional 00:19:04.390 --> 00:19:10.759 medicine but it was, I might be wrong. But from 00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:14.140 what I understood, it only goes back to about 00:19:14.140 --> 00:19:16.940 the 1950s. And it was all done during the Great 00:19:16.940 --> 00:19:20.660 Cultural Revolution by Chen and Mao, who wanted 00:19:20.660 --> 00:19:25.720 to do all this stuff. And a lot of it was all 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.819 sort of entirely made up. It just gets some good 00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:34.579 sounding. But for example, I think, is it still 00:19:34.579 --> 00:19:38.319 or it certainly was the best medicine against 00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:44.079 malaria was the artemisine which was because 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:47.019 one of the things that the Chinese are excellent 00:19:47.019 --> 00:19:53.539 at is extracting compounds from plants and they 00:19:53.539 --> 00:19:56.440 for years they were able to do it much much better 00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:58.480 in the West I mean they might still be able to 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:01.519 do it better but when it comes to extracting 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:07.119 the active compounds from plants, the Chinese 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:10.140 are world leaders in that. So that's one thing 00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:13.779 they're really, really, really good at. So yeah, 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:19.039 but there's so much in nature that you have to, 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:24.059 and back in the Viking times, they would have... 00:20:24.170 --> 00:20:28.569 Sim what works in various things, you know, like 00:20:28.569 --> 00:20:31.829 I'm rubbish at herbalism, but you know, various 00:20:31.829 --> 00:20:33.789 plants that are called sort of, you know, bone 00:20:33.789 --> 00:20:35.990 knit and wound words and all that sort of thing. 00:20:36.329 --> 00:20:38.210 And those, and those will come from the traditional 00:20:38.210 --> 00:20:40.210 ways of using them because they did actually 00:20:40.210 --> 00:20:44.809 help with, with all these things. Because the 00:20:44.809 --> 00:20:47.670 plants are our natural sort of pharmacy, aren't 00:20:47.670 --> 00:20:51.029 they? Yeah. Yeah, that's basically all we knew, 00:20:51.289 --> 00:20:53.730 knowledge of plants and animals and what to eat 00:20:53.730 --> 00:20:56.589 and what to eat. Because knowledge of poisons 00:20:56.589 --> 00:20:58.589 and toxins was probably just as valuable then 00:20:58.589 --> 00:21:01.930 as it should be now, really. I'm constantly telling 00:21:01.930 --> 00:21:03.849 my five -year -old, don't eat those berries, 00:21:04.009 --> 00:21:05.910 they're for the birds, so we call them bird berries. 00:21:08.009 --> 00:21:11.950 Yeah, and many of the things that are in plants 00:21:11.950 --> 00:21:18.700 are actually poisonous. most poisons can be used 00:21:18.700 --> 00:21:25.180 medicinally. Because all a drug is, is a substance 00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:27.920 that has an effect on the body. And lots of these 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:31.559 drugs come from plants. And it's actually, it's 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:36.440 Paracelsus, the 15th, 16th century alchemist, 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:40.339 who's known as the father of toxicology. he was 00:21:40.339 --> 00:21:42.740 the one who sort of to again paraphrase it he 00:21:42.740 --> 00:21:45.039 had a 16th century way of putting it but it's 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:47.980 basically the dose that makes the poison and 00:21:47.980 --> 00:21:50.279 a lot of things that are considered poisons now 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:53.599 um are actually medicines you just use them at 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:55.599 the right dose and they have a beneficial effect 00:21:55.599 --> 00:22:00.599 rather than rather than for example uh botulinum 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:07.279 oh yeah so uh your botox people go and have their 00:22:07.609 --> 00:22:11.130 injections of to make themselves apparently look 00:22:11.130 --> 00:22:14.809 young um although i don't see it just looks and 00:22:14.809 --> 00:22:18.289 makes them look like android mannequin type things 00:22:18.289 --> 00:22:23.430 don't it um uh the botulinum toxin is the most 00:22:23.430 --> 00:22:28.869 dangerous toxin on the planet um like uh there's 00:22:28.869 --> 00:22:31.690 that was it there's a picture somewhere of a 00:22:31.690 --> 00:22:36.700 of a like a pile of about two kilos of botulinum 00:22:36.700 --> 00:22:38.960 toxin. It's a white crystal. And they said, yeah, 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:41.339 that little pile there could kill every single 00:22:41.339 --> 00:22:45.660 person on the planet. Yeah, so we're talking 00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:49.799 parts per 100 billion of that. Yeah, it's just 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:53.900 a few molecules can completely sort of stop the 00:22:53.900 --> 00:22:55.799 paralyze. It's basically a paralyzing agent. 00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.380 But all these different things. So you've got 00:22:59.380 --> 00:23:02.500 herbalism. is where our medicine originally comes 00:23:02.500 --> 00:23:06.720 from, really. But again, using just, these are 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:08.640 all my own personal fingers, by the way, but 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:14.400 just using the straight plants from nature, I 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.039 find problematic because you've no idea how much 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:22.039 of the dose of the active compound that you're. 00:23:23.189 --> 00:23:25.630 after, you've got no idea how much of it is in 00:23:25.630 --> 00:23:28.349 that plant. So it might not have enough, in which 00:23:28.349 --> 00:23:30.250 case it's going to be useless, or it might have 00:23:30.250 --> 00:23:33.150 too much, and then you overdose. That was just 00:23:33.150 --> 00:23:35.630 by looking at the plant. So I'm sure there's 00:23:35.630 --> 00:23:38.750 herbalists all come and fight. And I'm quite 00:23:38.750 --> 00:23:42.190 always, always happy to be put right. But yeah, 00:23:42.670 --> 00:23:45.750 so that's why I like modern medicine. So while 00:23:45.750 --> 00:23:48.970 we've got recipes from ancient times that are 00:23:48.970 --> 00:23:53.539 being used today, we have that modern 21st century 00:23:53.539 --> 00:23:56.480 scientific eye on it and we can make it be safe. 00:23:57.819 --> 00:24:00.119 Yes I mean you talk about kind of like the dosage 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:02.700 and toxins it certainly made me think about alcohol 00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:06.019 because of course strong alcohol is damaging 00:24:06.019 --> 00:24:08.420 to any cells whether you're drinking it or kind 00:24:08.420 --> 00:24:10.099 of like dabbing on a cleaning surface as well 00:24:10.099 --> 00:24:13.380 we had alcohol gel so much during the COVID pandemic 00:24:13.380 --> 00:24:16.420 years exactly of course I've got no idea how 00:24:16.420 --> 00:24:19.220 strong proper mead would have been back in the 00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:20.940 day or even kind of like watered ale because 00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:23.000 of course Jorvik Museum's always telling you 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:25.160 the country to go round that because the day 00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:28.720 when was not clean to drink they just drink watered 00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:33.319 ale all the time. Yeah, yes because part of the 00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:35.940 process of making these things is sort of fermentation 00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:39.980 and also you boil the water as well. It kills 00:24:39.980 --> 00:24:43.279 the microbes for most of them then the fermentation 00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:45.460 process gets rid of most of the rest of them 00:24:45.460 --> 00:24:50.750 so yeah. It's a That's why we all used to drink 00:24:50.750 --> 00:24:54.809 beer Well, I'm saying that if you had a clean 00:24:54.809 --> 00:24:59.829 source of water then you should drink water So 00:24:59.829 --> 00:25:01.890 a lot of towns and whatever you couldn't because 00:25:01.890 --> 00:25:05.569 the water wasn't clean Mm -hmm. Yeah, so it's 00:25:05.569 --> 00:25:07.309 yeah, but if you've got clean water drink clean 00:25:07.309 --> 00:25:10.349 water, and that's what they used to do anyway 00:25:10.349 --> 00:25:14.069 So, of course we've touched on how you're barely 00:25:14.069 --> 00:25:17.210 the cabbage killer teaching about the Oh yeah. 00:25:18.809 --> 00:25:22.789 Blades, hitting bodies and what can happen. Excuse 00:25:22.789 --> 00:25:26.329 me. I know kind of like from browsing your wonderful 00:25:26.329 --> 00:25:28.670 website that you also kind of take on other character 00:25:28.670 --> 00:25:31.329 type roles to explore such as medieval medicine. 00:25:32.829 --> 00:25:38.049 Yes, yes. I mean I have, I've got sort of two 00:25:38.049 --> 00:25:41.769 main characters that I use, Erna Lesbiani and 00:25:41.769 --> 00:25:46.079 then there's also Albert Harvey. who's a feudal 00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:51.680 alchemist, which is my other main one. But I 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:55.059 also have things like I've got medieval monk 00:25:55.059 --> 00:26:01.319 where I do an art workshop. Oh, nice. Yeah. Oh, 00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:03.539 it doesn't. I mean, I've done it a few times. 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:05.180 I still got all the stuff, but I've not done 00:26:05.180 --> 00:26:08.279 it for ages. But it's a nice one, especially 00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:11.599 for schools, because I do a lot of work in schools. 00:26:11.660 --> 00:26:16.740 In fact, I'm off to a school tonight. And I've 00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:19.640 got a science festival on Sunday as well. There 00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:21.380 are more schools next week. So yeah, I've spent 00:26:21.380 --> 00:26:23.140 a lot of time in primary schools. But anyway, 00:26:24.700 --> 00:26:28.599 my medieval monk, Brother Meletus, who's actually 00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:30.900 named after, I think it's something like the 00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:35.180 fourth archbishop of Canterbury. Yeah, so back 00:26:35.180 --> 00:26:38.539 in the seventh century, or was it eighth century? 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:44.079 Seventh or eighth century. But I do a workshop 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:46.940 all about the making of the Lindisfarne Gospels. 00:26:47.380 --> 00:26:50.380 Oh, wow. Can I come? I want to come along. I 00:26:50.380 --> 00:26:54.240 want to know all about that. So I've got sort 00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:57.740 of laminated pages from the Lindisfarne Gospels, 00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:01.279 all the artwork and some of the writing. And 00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:03.970 it's all laminated because like. kids get their 00:27:03.970 --> 00:27:07.569 fingers all over it. It's in a folder, so it's 00:27:07.569 --> 00:27:10.170 a modern folder, but that's the only modern thing 00:27:10.170 --> 00:27:14.289 there. But otherwise, we in this and it can be 00:27:14.289 --> 00:27:17.430 anything from a half day to an all day workshop. 00:27:19.369 --> 00:27:23.789 And basically we make iron gall ink using like 00:27:23.789 --> 00:27:28.309 proper ingredients. So yeah, it's authentic ink 00:27:28.309 --> 00:27:31.869 the way that they've been using since about the 00:27:31.869 --> 00:27:35.980 seventh or 6th or 7th century, and that iron 00:27:35.980 --> 00:27:38.539 gall ink all went all the way up to about 17th, 00:27:38.539 --> 00:27:42.799 18th century. They only stopped using it because 00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:47.000 it's slightly corrosive, so once the metal nibs, 00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:50.059 pen nibs, were introduced, they found that it 00:27:50.059 --> 00:27:52.480 sort of corroded the metal pen nibs, so they 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:54.880 sort of developed other types of ink that weren't 00:27:54.880 --> 00:28:01.339 as thick like iron gall ink is. if the iron gall 00:28:01.339 --> 00:28:05.299 ink isn't made just right because it can still 00:28:05.299 --> 00:28:12.059 be slightly acidic. So one big problem for conservation 00:28:12.059 --> 00:28:16.220 of manuscripts is the fact that the iron gall 00:28:16.220 --> 00:28:20.160 ink does actually degrade basically because it's 00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:22.900 acidic, it destroys the paper or the parchment 00:28:22.900 --> 00:28:27.200 that it's on. Sometimes you open it up and it 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:29.849 just crumbles because the ink has eaten it. But 00:28:29.849 --> 00:28:33.509 apparently in the Lindisfarne Gospels, when they've 00:28:33.509 --> 00:28:36.470 analyzed the ink, they've actually found that 00:28:36.470 --> 00:28:40.009 it was pH neutral because once it was made, it 00:28:40.009 --> 00:28:43.210 seems that they added powdered chalk or limestone 00:28:43.210 --> 00:28:47.109 to it to neutralize it, which is why the Lindisfarne 00:28:47.109 --> 00:28:50.289 Gospels has lasted so long because they got rid 00:28:50.289 --> 00:28:56.569 of that acidic -ness. Yeah, so even back then 00:28:56.569 --> 00:28:59.400 in the 8th century. they they knew what they 00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:02.279 were doing great definitely did realized and 00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:05.160 they realized that this ink was corrosive and 00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:08.079 how to get rid of that corrosion by neutralizing 00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:11.819 it with limestone or chalk so i wonder if they 00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:14.519 must have noticed that old books in their time 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.029 were like crumbling because of that ink yeah 00:29:18.029 --> 00:29:20.329 because if the ink isn't made properly then it 00:29:20.329 --> 00:29:22.750 can get quite corrosive also if you add too much 00:29:22.750 --> 00:29:25.349 iron sulfate into it as well um because you find 00:29:25.349 --> 00:29:28.049 a lot of old manuscripts the what was black and 00:29:28.049 --> 00:29:31.670 it turns brown and that's because not all of 00:29:31.670 --> 00:29:36.089 the iron was reacted with the tannins um from 00:29:36.089 --> 00:29:39.410 the from the locals and so basically the iron 00:29:39.410 --> 00:29:45.029 oxidizes and it goes rusty yeah so whether uh 00:29:44.990 --> 00:29:47.869 the brown comes from, which also is going to 00:29:47.869 --> 00:29:52.130 degrade the parchment or paper. So, yeah, so 00:29:52.130 --> 00:29:55.150 anyway. No, it's all fascinating. That's the 00:29:55.150 --> 00:29:57.210 thing, you see. Everyone thinks, oh, we're making 00:29:57.210 --> 00:29:59.109 some ink, but then you look at the chemistry 00:29:59.109 --> 00:30:00.769 of it and you look at the history of how it's 00:30:00.769 --> 00:30:02.990 made, how it's used and how it's made and everything. 00:30:03.609 --> 00:30:07.230 One of my favorite recipes for white cool ink 00:30:07.230 --> 00:30:11.029 is the one that was written down by Sir Isaac 00:30:11.029 --> 00:30:14.940 Newton himself. Really? Wow. and he actually 00:30:14.940 --> 00:30:19.259 uses strong ale in his recipe oh and i've made 00:30:19.259 --> 00:30:23.099 it i'll tell you what i made it using old speckled 00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:27.359 hen and i'll tell you what it was absolutely 00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:32.480 gorgeous it smelt lovely oh yes and and it also 00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:38.100 it just it was so black on the page it was and 00:30:38.100 --> 00:30:40.720 it sort of went on so beautifully and had such 00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:45.700 lovely coverage. But then you'd expect this person 00:30:45.700 --> 00:30:48.759 is still considered the greatest scientist ever, 00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:52.839 even more than Einstein. You'd think he'd know 00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:57.759 how to make good ink. But if you look up on the 00:30:57.759 --> 00:30:59.519 internet, you can find his actual recipe for 00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:02.619 making iron gall ink. Oh, that's remarkable. 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:10.240 Yeah. So we do all that. the kids can use read 00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:15.039 pens or together quills to do some writing. So 00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:19.819 that's that bit. But then for the artwork, so 00:31:19.819 --> 00:31:22.059 then I go through the artwork and all the hensific 00:31:22.059 --> 00:31:24.019 pages and the carpet pages and all that sort 00:31:24.019 --> 00:31:26.299 of thing and all the illuminations. And then 00:31:26.299 --> 00:31:30.420 look at the pigments. A lot of the pigments are 00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:34.079 poisonous, so we can't use those. but I've got 00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.099 samples of them and the original minerals that 00:31:36.099 --> 00:31:37.880 they come from so show them where the pigments 00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:40.019 come from and then they go through the process 00:31:40.019 --> 00:31:43.720 of making their own paint using non -toxic, yeah 00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:47.059 they're solid tempera paint blocks that you get 00:31:47.059 --> 00:31:50.660 in art stores. They use those and sort of they 00:31:50.660 --> 00:31:57.029 crush them up with rocks and then I've got so 00:31:57.029 --> 00:31:59.390 you can crush them so that sort of simulates 00:31:59.390 --> 00:32:01.990 take getting the mineral and and crushing that 00:32:01.990 --> 00:32:07.730 up and then they can mix it and and Grind it 00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:11.390 so I've got a load of glass mullers and we just 00:32:11.390 --> 00:32:13.470 use sort of porcelain tiles and whatever to do 00:32:13.470 --> 00:32:15.930 the mixing they can use usually we use water 00:32:15.930 --> 00:32:18.630 for it as their water based pigments, but you 00:32:18.630 --> 00:32:23.509 can you can use glare which is made from egg 00:32:23.509 --> 00:32:26.890 whites or you can use egg yolk for tempera painting 00:32:26.890 --> 00:32:29.269 so they've got all the different binders that 00:32:29.269 --> 00:32:31.849 we can use or even sort of you know rabbit hide 00:32:31.849 --> 00:32:33.849 glue or something like that all sorts of different 00:32:33.849 --> 00:32:36.430 things you can make paint out of but yeah in 00:32:36.430 --> 00:32:38.849 schools usually just use water but they go through 00:32:38.849 --> 00:32:41.049 are they using the the millers which are sort 00:32:41.049 --> 00:32:45.089 of glass things sort of very flat large flat 00:32:45.089 --> 00:32:49.079 bottoms they're like with a glass handle on top 00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:52.099 and you use that to sort of grind the pigment 00:32:52.099 --> 00:32:55.359 so it's really really fine and into the water 00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:59.039 so it comes out a lovely fine paint and then 00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:02.460 they scrape all that off into seashells like 00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:06.380 oyster shells or mussel shells or whatever or 00:33:06.380 --> 00:33:10.500 big cockle shells and stuff and then we don't 00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:12.160 go through making the brushes but I'll show them 00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.880 out. And then they use modern paintbrushes and 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:17.599 then they can, so they've made their own ink 00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:19.619 and done writing with it. They've made their 00:33:19.619 --> 00:33:23.099 own paint and ground it up and mixed it and everything. 00:33:24.740 --> 00:33:28.339 Hell of a mess. That's the 30 kids. Hell of a 00:33:28.339 --> 00:33:30.960 mess. But then once they've collected everything, 00:33:31.059 --> 00:33:33.480 they've made everything, then they can do their 00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:35.880 own artwork. And I always get them to do some 00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:38.420 artwork based on what they've seen from the pictures 00:33:38.420 --> 00:33:42.019 in the Linda Swan gospel. That's wonderful. Yeah, 00:33:42.220 --> 00:33:46.519 so they so they learn One time I did it and I 00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:50.480 had a written Feedback and one of it was a girl 00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:53.940 who said I thought it was just an art class But 00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:57.740 it turned out to be art and history and science 00:33:57.740 --> 00:34:03.579 Yeah, and at the end of the day that is exactly 00:34:03.579 --> 00:34:08.239 what it's all about. Yeah I wish you were at 00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:10.579 school or lived near me to come to my school 00:34:10.579 --> 00:34:12.639 when I was growing up because I would have absolutely 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.380 loved that because we just learned about Romans 00:34:15.380 --> 00:34:17.599 if I was school and it was just boring and then 00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:20.639 we moved straight to Victorians. We didn't really 00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:22.579 touch on Vikings until secondary school but that 00:34:22.579 --> 00:34:25.440 was purely all about Alfred the Great versus 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:28.420 the Vikings. It was very much Anglo -Saxon biased. 00:34:30.449 --> 00:34:33.769 You're not the first person to tell me that actually 00:34:33.769 --> 00:34:35.929 You should consider doing adult classes. I've 00:34:35.929 --> 00:34:38.650 signed up if I was geographically nearer I would 00:34:38.650 --> 00:34:42.690 be Well in a way, that's what I do sort of because 00:34:42.690 --> 00:34:45.590 like you know when I when I do the schools But 00:34:45.590 --> 00:34:48.710 I also do events like I'm gonna be at the Yorvik 00:34:48.710 --> 00:34:58.610 Viking festival again 11 12 years I've been doing 00:34:58.610 --> 00:35:04.230 that now Oh wow. Originally it was Russell Scott 00:35:04.230 --> 00:35:10.090 who used to be the authenticity officer, in charge 00:35:10.090 --> 00:35:16.010 of authenticity for the Vikings Society. But 00:35:16.010 --> 00:35:18.989 he's actually the one who got me into the Vikings 00:35:18.989 --> 00:35:24.059 all those years ago. Really? Yeah. Unfortunately, 00:35:24.099 --> 00:35:27.639 he died a couple of years ago. I'll keep on the 00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:34.059 tradition. I'll go there with his wife, Liz Scott, 00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:38.860 so we still go. But yeah, but when I'm there, 00:35:39.019 --> 00:35:41.860 a lot of people always, they come to a reenactment 00:35:41.860 --> 00:35:46.599 or they come to a festival, pagan festival, something 00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:49.980 like that. And so many people think, oh yeah, 00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:55.280 this is for the kids. No, it's not. In fact, 00:35:55.800 --> 00:36:00.179 I talk to the adults. You do? I've seen it. I'm 00:36:00.179 --> 00:36:02.519 talking to the adults, but I hopefully do it 00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:04.179 in such a way so that the kids are engaged as 00:36:04.179 --> 00:36:06.579 well. But I'm telling all the adults all this 00:36:06.579 --> 00:36:08.619 stuff about all the stuff that you won't find 00:36:08.619 --> 00:36:14.900 in an ordinary textbook. But from all the archaeological 00:36:14.900 --> 00:36:20.119 papers and stuff like. And yeah, it's brilliant. 00:36:21.530 --> 00:36:25.010 And it's the adults who end up staying. Very 00:36:25.010 --> 00:36:26.949 much. I don't know. Yeah, and it's the adults 00:36:26.949 --> 00:36:29.250 who end up staying. So it's definitely much an 00:36:29.250 --> 00:36:34.070 adults thing. And you can't tell me that a grown 00:36:34.070 --> 00:36:36.710 man or a grown woman don't like holding a sword 00:36:36.710 --> 00:36:40.269 or an axe just as much as the kids do. Oh, I 00:36:40.269 --> 00:36:41.769 know. I remember, because I had the pleasure 00:36:41.769 --> 00:36:44.030 of finding you in your tent at the Olympic Viking 00:36:44.030 --> 00:36:47.329 Festival this year, 2025, having recently kind 00:36:47.329 --> 00:36:49.630 of met each other in a different sphere. Yeah. 00:36:50.279 --> 00:36:52.800 Ian Stuart Sharpe's Vikings and Valkyries podcast, 00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:55.039 where your character did a lot better than my 00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:56.840 character. I will say that, I'm not going to 00:36:56.840 --> 00:36:58.780 spoil it anymore. But I loved your character, 00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:01.300 I absolutely loved the fact that you had a talking 00:37:01.300 --> 00:37:05.699 jet ski. No ski even, not jet ski, wrong one. 00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:08.320 But yeah, I was kind of like stood patiently 00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:10.280 kind of like on the sidelines waiting for people 00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:12.579 to stop coming and talk to you. So then I could 00:37:12.579 --> 00:37:14.380 come and talk to you, but so many people were, 00:37:14.420 --> 00:37:16.960 both kids and adults. And it was lovely to see 00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:19.210 because I, even though I wasn't directly involved 00:37:19.210 --> 00:37:21.570 in the conversation I was listening in and learning 00:37:21.570 --> 00:37:23.730 indirectly at the same time and so many people 00:37:23.730 --> 00:37:27.269 were interested in your fox skin or your apple 00:37:27.269 --> 00:37:29.829 sets or kind of like the beads and the ornaments 00:37:29.829 --> 00:37:32.730 and artifacts that you've created to have and 00:37:32.730 --> 00:37:34.889 I love the tales you tell about them both kind 00:37:34.889 --> 00:37:37.329 of like in a narrative sense but also in a historical 00:37:37.329 --> 00:37:40.570 sense as well. Yeah well at the end of the day 00:37:40.570 --> 00:37:45.619 it's all storytelling isn't it and while I I 00:37:45.619 --> 00:37:49.340 find it very hard to tell formal stories, because 00:37:49.340 --> 00:37:52.679 then you have to remember stuff. Whereas when 00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:56.519 I can make it up to go along, then I'm OK doing 00:37:56.519 --> 00:37:58.780 that. So yeah, all I'm doing is telling people 00:37:58.780 --> 00:38:00.519 about stuff and hopefully doing it in an engaging 00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:06.820 way. But if you go to a reenactment or a historical 00:38:06.820 --> 00:38:10.079 event or something, and people go and say, oh, 00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:12.800 yeah, do you want to hold a sword? And they go, 00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:16.519 yeah, OK, I've done that. but when i sort of 00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:18.739 give them a sword or an axe and then i say right 00:38:18.739 --> 00:38:20.460 yeah now you can feel the way that it feels in 00:38:20.460 --> 00:38:22.860 your hand and if you hold it like this you can 00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:24.340 feel this and if you hold it like this you can 00:38:24.340 --> 00:38:26.400 feel this and then i'll explain the physics behind 00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:31.760 it and then they go oh my god yeah and and uh 00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:34.000 and then they that's what helps them realize 00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.369 well okay so the reason that axes hit harder 00:38:37.369 --> 00:38:40.469 than swords is because of so -and -so and so 00:38:40.469 --> 00:38:42.349 I'm explaining the thing and all of a sudden 00:38:42.349 --> 00:38:45.090 what they can feel in their hand isn't just oh 00:38:45.090 --> 00:38:47.429 look I'm holding a sword isn't that nice they 00:38:47.429 --> 00:38:51.989 feel that way and they I understand why it feels 00:38:51.989 --> 00:38:56.289 the way it does and so hopefully I think my unique 00:38:56.289 --> 00:38:59.489 selling point if you like is the fact that I 00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:03.760 enhance their experience by giving them that 00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:07.619 extra knowledge that maybe some real actors don't 00:39:07.619 --> 00:39:12.980 know. So yeah, that's sort of what I do. But 00:39:12.980 --> 00:39:17.699 yes, I was talking about Albert Harvey. Who wasn't 00:39:17.699 --> 00:39:26.619 it? And the alchemist. Yes, I got, because alchemy 00:39:26.619 --> 00:39:29.019 is basically history of chemistry, isn't it? 00:39:29.340 --> 00:39:32.280 And so once I got interested in the history of 00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:34.159 the chemistry and then all the alchemist is like, 00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:37.139 yes, again, Saez and Newton, who had all these 00:39:37.139 --> 00:39:40.400 breakthroughs, he didn't really consider himself 00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:43.260 a scientist. He considered himself an alchemist. 00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:50.780 He wrote vastly more on alchemy than he did on 00:39:50.780 --> 00:39:54.199 science. So we've got his, you know, like Principia 00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:56.739 and his work on optics and gravity and all that 00:39:56.739 --> 00:39:59.440 sort of thing. And a lot of those were because 00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:04.019 someone would say, ask him, what do you think 00:40:04.019 --> 00:40:06.780 about so -and -so? And he'd say, I don't know. 00:40:07.539 --> 00:40:09.400 Give me a couple of days, and I'll work it out. 00:40:09.619 --> 00:40:12.239 And then he goes away, and a couple of days later, 00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:14.659 he comes back. Oh, yeah, OK. So here's all the 00:40:14.659 --> 00:40:17.460 laws of motion and gravity and gravitational 00:40:17.460 --> 00:40:19.380 attraction and everything. A lot of it didn't 00:40:19.380 --> 00:40:22.119 understand himself. He said, well, what is this 00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:25.159 gravitational attraction? Only God knows that. 00:40:26.030 --> 00:40:30.010 or Einstein, as some people call him, came along 00:40:30.010 --> 00:40:33.250 with the explanation for that. But back in the 00:40:33.250 --> 00:40:35.190 17th century, they didn't know that. But what 00:40:35.190 --> 00:40:38.630 he could do is explain why they moved or how 00:40:38.630 --> 00:40:41.570 they moved. He explained the physics behind it. 00:40:42.289 --> 00:40:47.849 And to him, that was a, well, yeah, this is my 00:40:47.849 --> 00:40:51.150 take on it. For him, it was just an interesting 00:40:51.150 --> 00:40:54.519 problem. yeah even when even if he had to invent 00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:59.039 new maths like calculus to do it um for him it 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:00.739 was just an interesting problem but his main 00:41:00.739 --> 00:41:04.280 interest was actually in alchemy and he apparently 00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:08.699 wrote over a million words on alchemy yeah unfortunately 00:41:08.699 --> 00:41:12.639 a lot of his stuff um got broken up and sort 00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:15.920 of bought by various private collectors so his 00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:17.960 stuff is all over the world but i think there's 00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:22.599 um a project now to digitize all his stuff and 00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:24.659 all his work on alchemy and it's all coming together 00:41:24.659 --> 00:41:27.599 you can you can find it on the internet i think 00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:31.820 work on alchemy and and also he was a um a biblical 00:41:31.820 --> 00:41:36.920 prophet as well really yes he he was very interested 00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:43.059 in um biblical prophecy and he actually analyzed 00:41:43.059 --> 00:41:46.539 the bible and revelation and all that to try 00:41:46.539 --> 00:41:49.639 and work out when the end of the world would 00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:54.099 be and The reason that you get all these mad 00:41:54.099 --> 00:41:56.719 American people coming on your telly and saying, 00:41:56.920 --> 00:41:58.739 oh, it's the end of the world, and so and so, 00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:00.940 and the rapture's coming, and you get all these 00:42:00.940 --> 00:42:04.280 tales. I think even the last rapture, which was 00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:06.460 only a couple of weeks ago, wasn't it? The last 00:42:06.460 --> 00:42:10.340 one called Date for the Rapture. And in America, 00:42:10.500 --> 00:42:12.800 some people did actually sell their cars and 00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.840 belongings and stuff, expecting to sort of get 00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:21.960 bodily transported up to heaven. Yeah, it didn't 00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:25.159 happen. And the reason is, and you've got all 00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:29.579 these crackpot American TV evangelists and so 00:42:29.579 --> 00:42:32.659 -called prophets and whatever prophesying the 00:42:32.659 --> 00:42:37.460 end of the world, but they're all wrong. Because 00:42:37.460 --> 00:42:40.940 Isaac Newton, he prophesied that it was, I can't 00:42:40.940 --> 00:42:43.079 remember the exact date, but it's somewhere in 00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:50.739 2066. So. maybe I'll make it maybe I'll get I'll 00:42:50.739 --> 00:42:53.199 be a hundred then if I if I live to be a might 00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:55.679 live to see the end as well but I mean who are 00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:58.280 you gonna who you're gonna trust for the day 00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:01.500 well some crackpot American just out to make 00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:04.960 a quick buck or one of the yeah I could be the 00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:07.659 greatest scientist of all time so Isaac Newton 00:43:07.659 --> 00:43:12.840 but anyway so so we've got all those different 00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:15.900 tailors and the reason I really got interested 00:43:15.900 --> 00:43:19.980 in the alchemy as well is because when I was 00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:24.219 a science teacher we had all these different 00:43:24.219 --> 00:43:27.079 tales of scientists through the ages and you 00:43:27.079 --> 00:43:31.519 know all to illustrate you know like Van Helmond 00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:37.860 who is a scientist that tell the story about 00:43:37.860 --> 00:43:42.739 how he discovered where the biomass of plants 00:43:42.739 --> 00:43:45.960 come from. It comes from photosynthesis. I don't 00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:49.980 think he understood that. But the question was, 00:43:50.980 --> 00:43:53.340 you have a seed, you plant it, and it grows. 00:43:53.900 --> 00:43:56.519 But where does all the stuff that make a tree 00:43:56.519 --> 00:43:59.219 come from? Where does it all come from? Because 00:43:59.219 --> 00:44:00.900 everyone always thinks it comes out of the ground, 00:44:00.980 --> 00:44:02.480 which is quite natural. So you plant them in 00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:04.619 the ground, and that's what they grow out of. 00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:10.300 But he did an experiment for this in the 17th, 00:44:10.340 --> 00:44:14.579 18th century. Rubbish debates. But anyway, so 00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:17.219 he got a massive great big pot and he planted 00:44:17.219 --> 00:44:19.639 a sapling and he weighed everything. He weighed 00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:22.960 the sapling. He weighed the amount of soil that 00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:26.519 he put into it. And he measured, weighed all 00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:28.519 the amount of water that he put into it and everything 00:44:28.519 --> 00:44:31.480 and left it for five years measuring it all the 00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:34.719 time. And after five years sort of came to the 00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:39.980 conclusion that, well, in the textbooks. that 00:44:39.980 --> 00:44:44.039 the year sevens and eights in key stage three 00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:48.239 in secondary school, it says, and by this, he 00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:51.320 discovered that the biomass comes from the air. 00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:55.880 But he didn't. That revelation didn't come till 00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:59.260 later, because his conclusion was, well, the 00:44:59.260 --> 00:45:02.880 only thing I've added is the water. Because before 00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:07.360 I started, this is how much soil weighed after 00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:11.030 when I finished the experiment. it weighs a couple 00:45:11.030 --> 00:45:13.610 of ounces less. So obviously, it didn't come 00:45:13.610 --> 00:45:17.349 from the soil. Where else could it? Well, the 00:45:17.349 --> 00:45:20.070 only thing I've added is water. So his conclusion 00:45:20.070 --> 00:45:24.969 was the biomass comes from water. And in those 00:45:24.969 --> 00:45:27.030 days, there was still, like you still had the 00:45:27.030 --> 00:45:29.150 theory of four elements, Earth, Air, Fire, and 00:45:29.150 --> 00:45:33.369 Water. So he explained it that way. So that was 00:45:33.369 --> 00:45:37.010 his conclusion. And the thing that I hated is 00:45:37.010 --> 00:45:40.989 the fact that In the textbooks, it said he discovered 00:45:40.989 --> 00:45:43.849 that biomass come from the air because it's the 00:45:43.849 --> 00:45:46.670 carbon dioxide fixed by photosynthesis that you 00:45:46.670 --> 00:45:49.610 get. Yeah. So, you know, in a way, sort of all 00:45:49.610 --> 00:45:55.070 plants and trees are made from thin air. Yeah, 00:45:55.070 --> 00:46:00.750 they're just made of air is all. Yeah, but the 00:46:00.750 --> 00:46:03.690 textbooks were misrepresenting the story and 00:46:03.690 --> 00:46:07.710 I don't like that. And so now I can tell people. 00:46:07.849 --> 00:46:11.190 properly that that's where it came from. So I 00:46:11.190 --> 00:46:13.289 sort of did all that and I thought, yeah, I'm 00:46:13.289 --> 00:46:16.309 going to do an alchemist character. But before 00:46:16.309 --> 00:46:19.050 I started it, I actually spent two years researching 00:46:19.050 --> 00:46:23.250 and learning up about alchemy before my first 00:46:23.250 --> 00:46:26.289 thing, which was at Moncastle Castle, about six 00:46:26.289 --> 00:46:30.809 miles from me in Cumbria. And it went down really 00:46:30.809 --> 00:46:33.550 well, especially. And I had all these great ideas 00:46:33.550 --> 00:46:35.630 about all these alchemical experiments that I 00:46:35.630 --> 00:46:38.900 could do. But at the end of the day, It was all 00:46:38.900 --> 00:46:41.179 too difficult to do in a tent and I didn't have 00:46:41.179 --> 00:46:45.500 the right equipment. So I thought, you know what, 00:46:45.500 --> 00:46:48.920 I'll just go straight to transmutation. So we'll 00:46:48.920 --> 00:46:52.579 just go straight to making gold. So that, so 00:46:52.579 --> 00:46:55.300 as well as having loads of sort of stuff on display 00:46:55.300 --> 00:46:58.539 and I can explain all the chemistry and the history 00:46:58.539 --> 00:47:01.440 behind all these different things. The actual, 00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:05.920 the one actual activity that I do. is transportation, 00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:10.320 where I take copper coins. And before your very 00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:16.139 eyes, I transmute them into gold coins. And you 00:47:16.139 --> 00:47:18.480 think, well, if you're doing that, you must be 00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:24.920 really rich. But no, I've got a rubbish this 00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:27.559 model, because all those gold coins I make, I 00:47:27.559 --> 00:47:38.760 give them away for free. But in the context of 00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:43.059 an alchemist, I have to say, but this only works 00:47:43.059 --> 00:47:48.739 through the grace of God. If you've got any hint 00:47:48.739 --> 00:47:51.239 of sort of avarice in your heart, you're doing 00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:54.559 it through greed, profit motive, then it ain't 00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:56.800 going to work, despite the fact that it's a natural 00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:58.059 process, because they thought it was a natural 00:47:58.059 --> 00:48:02.360 process in those days. Although, we'll come back 00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:04.690 to that, because in a way, it is. But it's not. 00:48:05.010 --> 00:48:07.349 But anyway, so they thought it's an entirely 00:48:07.349 --> 00:48:10.650 natural process. Alchemy was just speeding up 00:48:10.650 --> 00:48:15.869 those processes. That's all it was doing. But 00:48:15.869 --> 00:48:18.789 if you didn't have a pure heart and you weren't 00:48:18.789 --> 00:48:20.630 doing it with the right intention, then it wouldn't 00:48:20.630 --> 00:48:22.150 work because it only works by the grace of God. 00:48:23.250 --> 00:48:26.469 So that's what they were. So that's what I include 00:48:26.469 --> 00:48:30.659 in my. in my spiel about it. And of course you've 00:48:30.659 --> 00:48:32.280 got to include a bit of Blackadder in there as 00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:38.619 well. But yeah, so it's all about the story. 00:48:38.940 --> 00:48:41.860 I'll tell you what though, when I do this, I 00:48:41.860 --> 00:48:47.260 mean, the actual... demonstration is really, 00:48:47.260 --> 00:48:51.099 really simple. And it's actually in a textbook. 00:48:51.619 --> 00:48:55.199 You can sometimes see it done in schools, especially 00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:57.860 on school open evenings when the science department's 00:48:57.860 --> 00:48:59.880 doing their displays and they might do, yeah, 00:48:59.900 --> 00:49:02.059 they're gonna display some transportation, making 00:49:02.059 --> 00:49:05.219 gold and whatever. So it's in one of the experiment 00:49:05.219 --> 00:49:07.519 books from the Royal Society of Chemistry. But 00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.099 it's quite funny because I do it on a charcoal 00:49:10.099 --> 00:49:16.320 fire, on a little charcoal fire. And I think 00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:18.820 it's the first week that I was doing it at Moncastor 00:49:18.820 --> 00:49:22.820 and my head of science came along. Well, my old 00:49:22.820 --> 00:49:26.480 head of science when I was in school and she 00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:28.659 is watching and she said, how do you get that 00:49:28.659 --> 00:49:31.039 to work? Because she said, I've tried doing this 00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:35.900 in the classroom using proper equipment. And 00:49:35.900 --> 00:49:38.349 she said, I can't get this to work. I said. And 00:49:38.349 --> 00:49:42.030 there you are doing it in a muddy field, a charcoal 00:49:42.030 --> 00:49:46.349 fire, and you've got it to work every time. It's 00:49:46.349 --> 00:49:56.329 by the grace of God. That's wonderful. I'm just 00:49:56.329 --> 00:49:58.590 so impressed with the knowledge that you have 00:49:58.590 --> 00:50:00.789 and the passion and all these tales and anecdotes 00:50:00.789 --> 00:50:03.789 and the history that's just pouring out of it. 00:50:04.489 --> 00:50:09.380 It's just sensational. Well, I've done a lot 00:50:09.380 --> 00:50:13.420 of reading, and I sort of remember a few things. 00:50:13.619 --> 00:50:16.239 But I have to keep reading up because some of 00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:19.199 it falls out of my brain or gets lost. And I 00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:22.059 always like looking for new stuff. Actually, 00:50:23.219 --> 00:50:28.559 with regards to the alchemy, back in September, 00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:34.480 I was at a Renaissance fair in Kent and doing 00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:38.619 my alchemist. thing over the weekend. And I had 00:50:38.619 --> 00:50:42.739 a group of science teachers that come all dressed 00:50:42.739 --> 00:50:44.360 up in all their fairy costumes and everything. 00:50:44.460 --> 00:50:47.000 So that was funny. But here's a group of science 00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:50.219 teachers from school, Canterbury, Canterbury 00:50:50.219 --> 00:50:55.800 College, which was a private school. And they 00:50:55.800 --> 00:51:00.059 said, one of the teachers absolutely fell in 00:51:00.059 --> 00:51:03.460 love with me and i'll be your apprentice i really 00:51:03.460 --> 00:51:07.460 want to be your apprentice i don't want to be 00:51:07.460 --> 00:51:11.519 a teacher forever um but but i'd love to do this 00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:13.639 yeah because you're yeah it's basically i'm still 00:51:13.639 --> 00:51:20.159 a teacher i'm just doing right and but from that 00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:23.820 i'm hoping I mean, to be honest, whether they 00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:26.639 go for it or not, it doesn't matter. I'm doing 00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:28.739 it anyway, because it's a resource that I can 00:51:28.739 --> 00:51:32.460 sell to schools, which is a scheme of work of 00:51:32.460 --> 00:51:38.079 12 lessons all about alchemy. Wow. And so this 00:51:38.079 --> 00:51:41.719 would come under STEAM. So mostly out of STEM, 00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:44.360 sort of Science, Technology, Engineering, Maths. 00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:47.039 Well, STEAM is Science, Technology, Engineering, 00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:52.119 Arts and Maths. Yeah. like, so this is going 00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:55.960 to be a really cross curricular scheme of work 00:51:55.960 --> 00:51:59.099 aimed at year sevens or year eights, probably 00:51:59.099 --> 00:52:05.760 for after school clubs, STEM clubs. But it's 00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:08.159 going to include sort of, you know, you've got 00:52:08.159 --> 00:52:09.699 the science, you've got the history, you've got 00:52:09.699 --> 00:52:12.000 the art, you've got geography, because like, 00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:17.519 alchemy sort of started really in sort of first 00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:23.750 to third century Egypt. And then after the burning 00:52:23.750 --> 00:52:27.750 of Alexandria, it moved to Greece. I mean, in 00:52:27.750 --> 00:52:31.449 first to third century, Egyptian was sort of 00:52:31.449 --> 00:52:33.670 like ruled by Greece anyway. So it's sort of 00:52:33.670 --> 00:52:36.849 like Hellenistic Egypt. But then it sort of moved 00:52:36.849 --> 00:52:40.449 to Greece. And then with the fall of the Roman 00:52:40.449 --> 00:52:44.730 Empire. And because a lot of the writing and 00:52:44.730 --> 00:52:49.559 alchemy is actually in Greek. And so when the 00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:51.599 Roman Empire fell, basically before it fell, 00:52:51.780 --> 00:52:55.099 it split into two. The Empire based in Rome, 00:52:55.139 --> 00:52:58.659 and you got the Empire based in Constantinople, 00:52:59.420 --> 00:53:03.840 in Istanbul, in Turkey. So the Empire split in 00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:06.519 half, and then the Western Roman Empire, the 00:53:06.519 --> 00:53:10.340 Roman Empire based in Rome, that was conquered 00:53:10.340 --> 00:53:15.400 by, was it the Goths or the Huns or someone? 00:53:15.949 --> 00:53:19.309 but not my area of history, but basically I think 00:53:19.309 --> 00:53:21.269 it was the Goths, wasn't it? They sacked Rome 00:53:21.269 --> 00:53:28.090 in the third century AD. But when the Roman Empire 00:53:28.090 --> 00:53:32.010 split, the thing about Romans, so they had taken 00:53:32.010 --> 00:53:34.550 on, like they took over Greece to start with, 00:53:34.710 --> 00:53:37.610 didn't they? And about Romans, they seemed to 00:53:37.610 --> 00:53:41.690 me to be a very pragmatic type of people. And 00:53:41.690 --> 00:53:44.139 so like all that Greek knowledge from ancient 00:53:44.139 --> 00:53:46.139 Greece, all the philosophers, they thought this 00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:48.139 is great, they're really large, we can use this, 00:53:48.320 --> 00:53:53.460 but anything practical they used and they wrote 00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:55.880 about it, but all the other stuff, all the theory 00:53:55.880 --> 00:54:00.860 and everything and the mystical stuff and all 00:54:00.860 --> 00:54:02.659 that sort of thing, they couldn't be bothered 00:54:02.659 --> 00:54:06.679 to call that. So a lot of that got left out and 00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:15.110 by the sort of I think it was by the sixth or 00:54:15.110 --> 00:54:19.070 seventh century, basically no one in the Western 00:54:19.070 --> 00:54:21.730 Roman Empire could read Greek, and it was all 00:54:21.730 --> 00:54:25.690 the Latin. And the Latin only had the stuff that 00:54:25.690 --> 00:54:27.550 the Romans thought was interesting and useful 00:54:27.550 --> 00:54:30.849 to them. And so a large part of the Greek corpus 00:54:30.849 --> 00:54:37.329 didn't get into Western Europe, but was preserved 00:54:37.329 --> 00:54:42.519 by the Arabs. And so from the seventh century 00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:47.699 onwards, the Arabian Peninsula and Islam as it 00:54:47.699 --> 00:54:52.900 spread through and into Asia Minor and all North 00:54:52.900 --> 00:54:55.880 Africa and into the Iberian Peninsula and Spain 00:54:55.880 --> 00:54:59.699 by the eighth century, it was pushing into Europe. 00:55:00.019 --> 00:55:05.679 But luckily, Charles Martel defeated a massive 00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:12.500 Muslim army up somewhere in France. And so that 00:55:12.500 --> 00:55:18.880 was the extent that the Muslims actually reached 00:55:18.880 --> 00:55:26.400 in Europe because Charles Martel, he sort of 00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:29.179 stopped the expansion eastwards into Europe. 00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:34.000 So he, what was I talking about? Oh, yeah. So 00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:39.760 that Islamic empire, if you like, they still 00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:42.719 had knowledge of the Greek. And a lot of the 00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:46.179 Greek writings got translated into Arabic. And 00:55:46.179 --> 00:55:50.239 then it was preserved. And it was also worked 00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:53.900 upon. So a lot of the early alchemists are actually 00:55:53.900 --> 00:56:02.280 Arabic alchemists. So some people like Razi and 00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:06.389 Geber and Avicenna, those are all originally 00:56:06.389 --> 00:56:09.230 Arabic alchemists but some people might recognize 00:56:09.230 --> 00:56:13.750 the names because they've been italicized or 00:56:13.750 --> 00:56:16.710 they're into into like the western um speech 00:56:16.710 --> 00:56:22.309 so we got to know them through those names but 00:56:22.309 --> 00:56:25.630 a lot of that stuff was like the golden age of 00:56:25.630 --> 00:56:30.150 Arabic science so up until about 10th yeah 10th 00:56:30.150 --> 00:56:34.320 into the 11th century the the Muslim culture 00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:36.820 was far superior to the Christian. And the scientific 00:56:36.820 --> 00:56:39.380 knowledge was far superior to the Christian, 00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:43.179 the Western European scientific knowledge. But 00:56:43.179 --> 00:56:50.719 then by about the 12th century, you had in the 00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:57.260 Spanish area, you had people translating from 00:56:57.260 --> 00:57:01.400 the Greek into the Arabic, but also into back 00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:04.480 into Latin. And so from about the 12th century 00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:09.139 onwards, mainly through Spain and Constantinople, 00:57:09.820 --> 00:57:13.119 then you had all that lost knowledge that had 00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:16.780 been lost in Western Europe, but preserved in 00:57:16.780 --> 00:57:21.880 the Eastern Roman Empire and the Islamic lands, 00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:24.760 all that knowledge now starting to get translated 00:57:24.760 --> 00:57:27.519 back into Latin. So then it slowly came back 00:57:27.519 --> 00:57:30.909 into Western Europe. A lot of people don't realize 00:57:30.909 --> 00:57:34.369 that we've got Islam to thank for holding on 00:57:34.369 --> 00:57:37.369 to that knowledge that otherwise would have been 00:57:37.369 --> 00:57:43.369 lost. Yeah, that's remarkable. I've only ever 00:57:43.369 --> 00:57:48.730 come across brief references to the amazing science 00:57:48.730 --> 00:57:50.750 or even the mathematics. I remember following 00:57:50.750 --> 00:57:55.199 a history of mathematics. I presented to Cartman 00:57:55.199 --> 00:57:57.380 the name of, but I think he had a surname that 00:57:57.380 --> 00:57:59.760 I couldn't always pronounce right, but he did 00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:03.099 kind of like touch on mathematics coming, mathematical 00:58:03.099 --> 00:58:05.460 theory at least, coming from the Islamic part 00:58:05.460 --> 00:58:07.980 of the world and that history. What, Jamal Khalili 00:58:07.980 --> 00:58:11.739 is it? Does Jamal Khalili really into all that? 00:58:13.340 --> 00:58:15.739 I want to say the name Mark by Cartman with the 00:58:15.739 --> 00:58:19.380 surname. I could be wrong. I could be wrong. 00:58:19.539 --> 00:58:22.619 I like you. It's something that I've read or 00:58:22.619 --> 00:58:27.179 watched many years ago now. Yes. Oh, gosh. Wow. 00:58:27.739 --> 00:58:32.119 And in my previous monologue, I dare say that 00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:33.699 I got a lot of the dates wrong. So if there's 00:58:33.699 --> 00:58:36.739 anyone said, it didn't happen then, OK, I'm rubbish 00:58:36.739 --> 00:58:40.119 at dates. As long as I've got it within the right 00:58:40.119 --> 00:58:45.219 sort of century either side, I hope, then. Yeah, 00:58:45.340 --> 00:58:48.980 because I'm rubbish at dates. but yeah so yeah 00:58:48.980 --> 00:58:51.320 but that's that's that's what I'm all about you 00:58:51.320 --> 00:58:55.000 see is sort of bringing to the public and it's 00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:59.099 that it's informal teaching if you like at historical 00:58:59.099 --> 00:59:01.639 events and yeah in schools but also science festivals 00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:04.519 if they have me and whatever and it's bringing 00:59:04.519 --> 00:59:07.519 all this but it's not just the science it's the 00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:10.260 fact that everything you can't separate one thing 00:59:10.260 --> 00:59:13.219 from another everything is all together And when 00:59:13.219 --> 00:59:15.960 you learn about one thing, you learn about history, 00:59:16.099 --> 00:59:18.159 you learn about science, and you learn about 00:59:18.159 --> 00:59:20.699 people's writings and all that sort of thing. 00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:23.420 And also the stories of the people who did all 00:59:23.420 --> 00:59:28.639 that thing as well. A lot of them were really, 00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:32.460 really, really interesting personal stories as 00:59:32.460 --> 00:59:35.159 well, with all this knowledge and the scientific 00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:38.980 knowledge, all sorts of brilliant personal tales. 00:59:40.260 --> 00:59:43.869 They're like Taiko Braha. I'm probably mangling 00:59:43.869 --> 00:59:49.190 how you say his name, but was he Dutch or Danish? 00:59:51.769 --> 00:59:57.489 Something like that. And he was a famous astronomer 00:59:57.489 --> 01:00:01.070 back in the days when astronomy and astrology 01:00:01.070 --> 01:00:03.710 were similar disciplines, and quite often many 01:00:03.710 --> 01:00:10.239 astronomers were also astrologers as well. One 01:00:10.239 --> 01:00:13.219 of my favorite things about him is the fact that 01:00:13.219 --> 01:00:16.179 he had his nose cut off in a sword writing jewel. 01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:19.920 And so later pictures, paintings that you see 01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:24.679 of him, he's actually got a, I think it's made 01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:27.099 of bronze, leather or bronze or something like 01:00:27.099 --> 01:00:30.639 that. But he's got an artificial nose that was 01:00:30.639 --> 01:00:32.599 made for him because he had his nose cut off 01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:37.739 in a jewel. That was a bad duel. Did he win that 01:00:37.739 --> 01:00:40.940 duel? Did he lose? I can't remember. I can't 01:00:40.940 --> 01:00:45.639 remember. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Wow. Well, to bring 01:00:45.639 --> 01:00:49.199 it slightly more back to the present day, I know 01:00:49.199 --> 01:00:51.119 kind of like from our brief chats back when we 01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:54.119 were part of the Viking and Bad Kiwis podcast, 01:00:54.500 --> 01:00:58.800 actual play TTRPG role play game. Yes. Ian mentioned 01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:01.539 more Forge settlement in Cumbria and your role 01:01:01.539 --> 01:01:03.539 in that. Could you tell us more about that, please? 01:01:04.139 --> 01:01:10.980 Yes, blimey. So it's something that I'm involved 01:01:10.980 --> 01:01:15.199 with. I actually use it. So, well, start at the 01:01:15.199 --> 01:01:18.780 beginning. It's owned by a guy called David Watson. 01:01:20.780 --> 01:01:24.760 And, oh, by the way, better show more for the 01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:29.269 t -shirt. Yeah, very good. Morphorge has merch. 01:01:31.769 --> 01:01:34.929 Yeah, David Watson, he was an industrial blacksmith 01:01:34.929 --> 01:01:40.309 that works at Sellafield. And when he left Sellafield, 01:01:40.570 --> 01:01:42.590 he sort of became self -employed and he does, 01:01:43.449 --> 01:01:46.090 he's still a blacksmith, but works out of his 01:01:46.090 --> 01:01:48.670 own workshop now. And he had an interest in Vikings. 01:01:48.909 --> 01:01:55.250 And it was sort of about 2004. He Got the sort 01:01:55.250 --> 01:01:58.010 of made contact with this local place called 01:01:58.010 --> 01:02:02.650 Grampus, which is based in near Wigton and it's 01:02:02.650 --> 01:02:04.750 a archaeological and sort of training thing and 01:02:04.750 --> 01:02:07.190 they they used to do loads of stuff in the EU 01:02:07.190 --> 01:02:09.829 under Erasmus and all that sort of thing I've 01:02:09.829 --> 01:02:12.030 been away on a couple of things with those absolutely 01:02:12.030 --> 01:02:17.050 brilliant. Obviously Brexit got all that but 01:02:17.050 --> 01:02:23.780 Until I'm not a fan Yeah, so he sort of went 01:02:23.780 --> 01:02:27.320 away on a few courses because they sort of specialised 01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:29.639 in Viking Age stuff, Viking Age crafts, there 01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:31.500 was a blacksmith who was interested in that, 01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:35.300 and he got invited to go to do an iron smelt 01:02:35.300 --> 01:02:41.059 in Iceland, so he went off there, yeah, and got 01:02:41.059 --> 01:02:43.260 really interested because there's a guy over 01:02:43.260 --> 01:02:48.400 there, whose name alludes me, but he specialised 01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:52.409 in making sort of Viking -style buildings. And 01:02:52.409 --> 01:02:58.130 so they got funding through Grampus to come to 01:02:58.130 --> 01:03:01.690 some land that David owns, a field that he owns 01:03:01.690 --> 01:03:05.730 next to his house, and build an Icelandic -style 01:03:05.730 --> 01:03:09.730 Viking smithy with a forge and everything, which 01:03:09.730 --> 01:03:14.090 is what they did. And it sort of sat there in 01:03:14.090 --> 01:03:15.869 his field for a couple of years. And he thought, 01:03:17.590 --> 01:03:20.489 well, you know, deal with a bit more. So he decided. 01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:25.340 build a workshop, but it was a workshop that 01:03:25.340 --> 01:03:29.699 had a living area to go with it. So it's a long 01:03:29.699 --> 01:03:32.199 house, but only half of it was totally enclosed. 01:03:32.599 --> 01:03:36.079 The other half was half roofed, but it was open 01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:38.260 on one side so you could sort of do woodworking 01:03:38.260 --> 01:03:43.420 and other crafts and whatever. But then when 01:03:43.420 --> 01:03:47.840 that was built, started someone approached him 01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:50.900 about having folk nights, doing folk music. in 01:03:50.900 --> 01:03:53.820 this place. I said yeah yeah because yeah it'd 01:03:53.820 --> 01:03:57.159 be nice to see it actually get used so and and 01:03:57.159 --> 01:03:59.559 I'd also been involved a little bit so I was 01:03:59.559 --> 01:04:03.300 there for the opening in 2014 of the display 01:04:03.300 --> 01:04:06.019 and I was sort of in a tent and everything yeah 01:04:06.019 --> 01:04:09.659 holding forth doing my thing and then we had 01:04:09.659 --> 01:04:15.219 the the uh the folk nights in the in the Viking 01:04:15.219 --> 01:04:17.699 they called it the lock house but it was really 01:04:17.699 --> 01:04:21.619 a workshop um and then I think it was a Christmas 01:04:21.619 --> 01:04:26.039 one or towards Christmas and so many people turned 01:04:26.039 --> 01:04:29.820 up that they couldn't actually get in. Oh bless. 01:04:30.199 --> 01:04:33.619 And so people peering through the door and so 01:04:33.619 --> 01:04:36.199 they thought well this is no good because if 01:04:36.199 --> 01:04:39.760 they get this popular then we need to we need 01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:41.500 a bit bigger building and the easiest way doing 01:04:41.500 --> 01:04:44.900 it was to roof the entire building and have it 01:04:44.900 --> 01:04:49.250 all one long building. So that's when it became 01:04:49.250 --> 01:04:51.869 a profit long house. And shortly after that, 01:04:51.889 --> 01:04:56.889 I started doing school groups there. And then 01:04:56.889 --> 01:05:00.449 we had sort of more open days and stuff there. 01:05:00.789 --> 01:05:07.690 And then about twenty twenty two. I was doing 01:05:07.690 --> 01:05:14.150 I'm busy doing schools. Twenty twenty two. David 01:05:14.150 --> 01:05:19.820 thinks. One long house isn't enough. I need to 01:05:19.820 --> 01:05:22.639 build another one that was about three times 01:05:22.639 --> 01:05:28.300 the size. Oh gosh. So this new one was 18 meters 01:05:28.300 --> 01:05:32.159 by seven meters at its widest narrowing down 01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:35.480 to five meters. So it's a good shape. So it's 01:05:35.480 --> 01:05:39.380 sort of, you know, like that boat shaped if you 01:05:39.380 --> 01:05:42.539 like. And it's also got a hogsback on it as well. 01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:49.239 Oh, very nice. um typical long house shape and 01:05:49.239 --> 01:05:52.320 we've we've almost finished that actually i mean 01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:54.420 it's all needs a door putting on it and half 01:05:54.420 --> 01:05:58.539 the roof needs shingling still but um now we've 01:05:58.539 --> 01:06:02.559 got an 18 meter by seven meter space where we 01:06:02.559 --> 01:06:05.840 can do more stuff which which is yeah for schools 01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:09.639 is brilliant because getting 30 kids in the smaller 01:06:09.639 --> 01:06:12.460 long house is a bit of a surprise if it turned 01:06:12.460 --> 01:06:16.780 out that it was raining all day It made life 01:06:16.780 --> 01:06:20.159 difficult, let's just say. It wasn't a big space 01:06:20.159 --> 01:06:23.119 for 30 kids, but now we've got this big long 01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:26.420 house, 18 meters by seven meters, that is absolutely 01:06:26.420 --> 01:06:29.699 huge. And so that is going to get you some more 01:06:29.699 --> 01:06:38.420 things. So now, like the last, since about 2022, 01:06:39.559 --> 01:06:45.000 we've started having re -enactments there. Despite 01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:47.760 the fact that we've got a local reenactment group, 01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:50.199 it's quite funny because they hardly ever use 01:06:50.199 --> 01:06:53.099 the site. Yeah, there's Viking reenactment group. 01:06:53.239 --> 01:06:55.940 They hardly ever use it. But there's a group 01:06:55.940 --> 01:07:00.639 in Edinburgh and another group in Manchester. 01:07:01.300 --> 01:07:06.300 And these are Eastern Viking groups. So in Viking 01:07:06.300 --> 01:07:08.980 tradition. So like most of them have come from 01:07:08.980 --> 01:07:14.880 Poland originally. So it's mostly Poles. In Viking 01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:17.940 re -enactment now, there's like sort of three 01:07:17.940 --> 01:07:21.039 main styles, I suppose you could say. There is 01:07:21.039 --> 01:07:23.280 the Western style that was developed in this 01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:27.000 country. Then you've got the Eastern style, which 01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:29.579 developed in Eastern Europe here, Eastern Europe. 01:07:30.019 --> 01:07:32.500 And you also got another style called Huscarl, 01:07:32.800 --> 01:07:35.239 which is sort of a mixture of both, if you like. 01:07:35.880 --> 01:07:38.280 But the main thing about Western style is when 01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:41.960 you're fighting, because we're not really armored, 01:07:42.360 --> 01:07:46.039 Most people don't wear armour, and so when you're 01:07:46.039 --> 01:07:48.619 hitting each other with these sort of huge, great, 01:07:48.679 --> 01:07:52.219 blunt, small weapons. we get together relatively 01:07:52.219 --> 01:07:55.239 gently because we get up and go to well most 01:07:55.239 --> 01:07:57.760 people have to get up and go to work on monday 01:07:57.760 --> 01:08:00.980 yeah bones and forces split open and all that 01:08:00.980 --> 01:08:03.820 sort of thing it happens obviously that'd be 01:08:03.820 --> 01:08:06.519 a tricky email sorry boss i just got killed by 01:08:06.519 --> 01:08:09.840 a viking over the weekend yeah yeah so uh yeah 01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:12.239 and i'm in hospital yeah someone hit me with 01:08:12.239 --> 01:08:15.800 an axe but in the eastern style they actually 01:08:15.800 --> 01:08:21.220 go for it they wear lots of body armor which 01:08:21.220 --> 01:08:26.920 again isn't authentic because in my weapons demo 01:08:26.920 --> 01:08:30.140 that I do about the physics of weapons I also 01:08:30.140 --> 01:08:33.300 include But when I'm using the shark weapons, 01:08:33.300 --> 01:08:35.600 I'm hitting this poor cabbage as hard as I can. 01:08:35.939 --> 01:08:38.140 And I start off with a fully armored cabbage. 01:08:38.600 --> 01:08:41.899 So yes, he has he has a male. He's called male, 01:08:42.039 --> 01:08:45.739 not chainmail. So it's male over it. And I also 01:08:45.739 --> 01:08:49.140 give it some padding. So eight. So I've got this 01:08:49.140 --> 01:08:52.340 square of one mole, which is a thick woolen cloth 01:08:52.340 --> 01:08:55.439 that was a very valuable trade trade good in 01:08:55.439 --> 01:08:59.140 Viking times. And I fold it. So it's eight layers 01:08:59.140 --> 01:09:01.220 thick. So it's about Yeah, it's about that thick. 01:09:01.939 --> 01:09:03.840 And place that over and then put the mail on 01:09:03.840 --> 01:09:06.939 top of that and sort of talk about how, while 01:09:06.939 --> 01:09:10.579 there's no evidence for Vikings or the Saxons 01:09:10.579 --> 01:09:12.979 of that period wearing padding under their armor, 01:09:13.180 --> 01:09:15.920 I sort of say, yeah, seems stupid. So here's 01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:20.239 some padding. So some people think that maybe 01:09:20.239 --> 01:09:22.659 because they didn't have the like the like the 01:09:22.659 --> 01:09:25.000 early medieval padded gambesons that you see 01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:28.000 like Normans wearing, whatever. um and you know 01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:31.640 the the nights after that they they didn't have 01:09:31.640 --> 01:09:34.500 that in viking times so maybe because pad you 01:09:34.500 --> 01:09:38.359 know to not wear padding would be stupid um yeah 01:09:38.359 --> 01:09:41.920 because it it should sort of alleviate the blunt 01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:46.439 force trauma uh from a heavy strike maybe they 01:09:46.439 --> 01:09:49.359 wore tunics or thick woolen tunics of you know 01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:51.359 half dozen bags or something yeah which is a 01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:54.770 reasonable thing although you're gonna be really 01:09:54.770 --> 01:09:58.210 really hot and sweaty in there yes yes anyway 01:09:58.210 --> 01:10:02.689 so i show i show what happens and and the cabbage 01:10:02.689 --> 01:10:05.010 that i use is a hard white cabbage tougher than 01:10:05.010 --> 01:10:08.430 human flesh and when i'm hitting it as hard as 01:10:08.430 --> 01:10:11.569 i can and i'm using like a sword i use a lengthaxe 01:10:11.569 --> 01:10:14.050 i haven't got a sharp sword same same thing though 01:10:14.050 --> 01:10:17.909 um and i use an axe and especially when they 01:10:17.909 --> 01:10:22.569 see what the axe does a good hard blow and It 01:10:22.569 --> 01:10:25.210 can destroy the cabbage underneath through the 01:10:25.210 --> 01:10:28.729 mail, prevents it cutting. But that thick layer 01:10:28.729 --> 01:10:33.069 of padding, even with that blunt force trauma 01:10:33.069 --> 01:10:35.630 from an axe, is considerable. And considering 01:10:35.630 --> 01:10:38.710 most of your Vikings had axes, it was considerable. 01:10:39.210 --> 01:10:44.289 And so my theory is, and it is basically a hypothesis 01:10:44.289 --> 01:10:47.229 based on the evidence that I see from this demo, 01:10:47.949 --> 01:10:51.229 that if you get a really strong, powerful hit, 01:10:51.399 --> 01:10:55.520 especially of an axe the padding ain't gonna 01:10:55.520 --> 01:10:59.520 do that much evidence is look i've just smashed 01:10:59.520 --> 01:11:05.159 this cabbage through that thing and uh so my 01:11:05.159 --> 01:11:10.199 my uh hypothesis is based on that that the reason 01:11:10.199 --> 01:11:13.800 they didn't wear um padding under their armor 01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:16.420 is because it would slow them down it would make 01:11:16.420 --> 01:11:19.640 them less able to fight for long yeah long for 01:11:19.640 --> 01:11:23.470 a long period And it's much easier just to get 01:11:23.470 --> 01:11:26.550 out of the way and get a glancing blow than it 01:11:26.550 --> 01:11:29.109 would a full force blow. And if you are going 01:11:29.109 --> 01:11:31.630 to get that full force blow, you're going to 01:11:31.630 --> 01:11:34.130 get broken bones anyway. So what's the point 01:11:34.130 --> 01:11:39.310 of being hot and sweaty? Yeah. Yeah. So that's 01:11:39.310 --> 01:11:44.510 that's why I sort of put across that my own hypothesis. 01:11:44.949 --> 01:11:47.350 Obviously, apart from my demo, there's no evidence 01:11:47.350 --> 01:11:49.689 for it. And there are limitations. the demo as 01:11:49.689 --> 01:11:52.229 well because like it's a stationary cabbage and 01:11:52.229 --> 01:11:55.810 i'm up and i'm hitting it you know spot on yeah 01:11:55.810 --> 01:11:59.609 so it's you know but if you look at um the work 01:11:59.609 --> 01:12:03.010 that Hurstwick do uh which are an american are 01:12:03.010 --> 01:12:08.810 they american or canadian uh but they um wait 01:12:08.810 --> 01:12:12.189 they i call myself the science viking but they 01:12:12.300 --> 01:12:15.279 are true science vikings because like they use 01:12:15.279 --> 01:12:17.520 scientific instruments and everything when they're 01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:20.520 measuring their stuff. So really good stuff. 01:12:21.159 --> 01:12:23.819 Really, really, really good group to look up 01:12:23.819 --> 01:12:26.140 Hearst Week. Their website is excellent. And 01:12:26.140 --> 01:12:29.039 they go and do sort of experiments on like hall 01:12:29.039 --> 01:12:32.500 burnings and all sorts of stuff. They take scenes 01:12:32.500 --> 01:12:36.359 from the sagas and try and sort of, you know, 01:12:36.399 --> 01:12:41.260 but not reenact them, recreate them. And and 01:12:41.260 --> 01:12:43.510 they sort of take measurements and everything 01:12:43.510 --> 01:12:45.390 like you know what's the temperature of the fire 01:12:45.390 --> 01:12:47.149 they're going to stick a you know temperature 01:12:47.149 --> 01:12:49.029 probe in it yeah hot it gets and all that sort 01:12:49.029 --> 01:12:53.710 of thing and yeah those are true science vikings 01:12:53.710 --> 01:12:57.630 and one of the things that they say is like and 01:12:57.630 --> 01:12:59.949 there's a there's a really good book called men 01:12:59.949 --> 01:13:15.409 of terror this book by uh william short And it's 01:13:15.409 --> 01:13:18.890 an excellent book because it doesn't just talk 01:13:18.890 --> 01:13:24.829 about Like the Viking times it's a says a comprehensive 01:13:24.829 --> 01:13:28.609 analysis of Viking combat and when they say when 01:13:28.609 --> 01:13:34.130 you sort of read the sagas it's When you sort 01:13:34.130 --> 01:13:37.329 of look at other people and like you've got the 01:13:37.329 --> 01:13:40.149 the later manuscripts the fencing manuscripts 01:13:40.149 --> 01:13:44.130 and they the uh the fighting manuals and whatever 01:13:44.130 --> 01:13:49.590 from the sort of 13th century onwards um the 01:13:49.590 --> 01:13:52.329 viking way of fighting they say was all about 01:13:52.329 --> 01:13:56.090 power so like when you see a re -enactment and 01:13:56.090 --> 01:13:57.850 you see everyone sort of doing all this tippy 01:13:57.850 --> 01:13:59.630 -tappy stuff and whatever that's not fighting 01:13:59.630 --> 01:14:01.810 that's that's sport fighting it's more like fencing 01:14:01.810 --> 01:14:05.390 yeah it's a sport combat um but when you're talking 01:14:05.390 --> 01:14:09.619 about real combat talking about hard, powerful 01:14:09.619 --> 01:14:14.180 blows. Yeah, they're aiming to finish the fight 01:14:14.180 --> 01:14:17.739 in one hit is what they want. And so all their 01:14:17.739 --> 01:14:20.479 blows are really powerful. So my thing there 01:14:20.479 --> 01:14:22.720 is, well, if most of the blows that are going 01:14:22.720 --> 01:14:26.000 in are powerful, and are aimed to take you down 01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:29.159 with one hit, then maybe the majority of the 01:14:29.950 --> 01:14:32.149 things that actually hit you. If you get hit, 01:14:32.250 --> 01:14:34.949 you are going down. So wearing the mail will 01:14:34.949 --> 01:14:37.149 protect you from a glancing blow. And what would 01:14:37.149 --> 01:14:39.850 make a powerful blow, a glancing blow, is actually 01:14:39.850 --> 01:14:41.930 your movement getting out of the way. And even 01:14:41.930 --> 01:14:44.329 if you get hit, hopefully, it's like a lot of 01:14:44.329 --> 01:14:46.029 the power is taken away because you're moving 01:14:46.029 --> 01:14:48.130 out of the way of it. So it's more of a deflection. 01:14:49.710 --> 01:14:54.220 So that's what we're looking at. So when we've 01:14:54.220 --> 01:14:56.260 got these re -enactment groups, so these Eastern 01:14:56.260 --> 01:14:58.159 Viking re -enactment groups seem to have taken 01:14:58.159 --> 01:15:01.159 over Moorforge. So we've got one of those every 01:15:01.159 --> 01:15:05.819 year, sort of in June or July. And then we have 01:15:05.819 --> 01:15:08.140 craft fairs there as well. So every May we have 01:15:08.140 --> 01:15:10.119 a piece of craft fair. So we're looking at sort 01:15:10.119 --> 01:15:14.460 of heritage crafts. Because of where Moorforge 01:15:14.460 --> 01:15:17.720 is, we don't actually get that big of footfall. 01:15:18.020 --> 01:15:22.359 It's in the middle in Cumbria. It's near Cockermouth. 01:15:23.579 --> 01:15:28.619 at the bottom of the A66. So, and it's about 01:15:28.619 --> 01:15:31.420 sort of 15 minutes drive from the roundabout 01:15:31.420 --> 01:15:35.600 on the way to Cockermouth. But because we're 01:15:35.600 --> 01:15:39.479 a bit out of the way, even a successful event 01:15:39.479 --> 01:15:42.060 is like if we get sort of 300 or 400 members 01:15:42.060 --> 01:15:44.819 of the public come over a whole weekend, to us 01:15:44.819 --> 01:15:50.079 that's successful. So, but yeah. So these events 01:15:50.079 --> 01:15:53.680 are more like, like the craft fair. It's actually 01:15:53.680 --> 01:15:57.560 more of a networking event. Can meet each other, 01:15:58.159 --> 01:16:02.739 can chat to each other. We've had people collaborating 01:16:02.739 --> 01:16:04.640 with each other based on meeting each other at 01:16:04.640 --> 01:16:07.180 these craft fairs and things. And so they come 01:16:07.180 --> 01:16:09.239 along, do all their setup and we get people coming. 01:16:09.520 --> 01:16:12.819 If they sell stuff, that's brilliant, obviously. 01:16:14.460 --> 01:16:17.039 But yeah, but we don't have a pitch fee or anything 01:16:17.039 --> 01:16:20.479 they can come and they do it for free Yeah, because 01:16:20.479 --> 01:16:22.939 it's mainly a get -together and to enjoy this 01:16:22.939 --> 01:16:24.960 side of more force because one thing about more 01:16:24.960 --> 01:16:30.079 for it's a community mm -hmm and Like we've built 01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:33.560 up this big community of the people who use the 01:16:33.560 --> 01:16:36.199 site and also the people who come to visit us 01:16:36.199 --> 01:16:40.420 and So we've got reenactors. We've got crafters 01:16:40.420 --> 01:16:44.539 one of the main guys who organises the craft 01:16:44.539 --> 01:16:48.199 event and the re -enactment event, Ashley Velderson. 01:16:48.760 --> 01:16:52.819 He's at Velcow Arts. He runs his own re -enactment 01:16:52.819 --> 01:16:56.100 group, Oddong Vikings, I think they're called. 01:16:56.340 --> 01:16:59.739 They're an Eastern style, but they're also heavily 01:16:59.739 --> 01:17:03.659 into living history as well. So he wants to do 01:17:03.659 --> 01:17:07.079 the whole thing and he's sort of... He's a tattooist, 01:17:07.520 --> 01:17:11.399 so he does brilliant tattoos. The Morphorge team, 01:17:11.600 --> 01:17:13.560 which is about half a dozen people in the Morphorge 01:17:13.560 --> 01:17:16.000 team, everyone has got a tattoo of the Morphorge 01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:20.159 logo. Except me. Except me, because I don't do 01:17:20.159 --> 01:17:24.920 tattoos. That's fine. You look gender and do 01:17:24.920 --> 01:17:27.600 your own thing in person, so you are a part of 01:17:27.600 --> 01:17:31.239 it anyway. And I think it's despite kind of like 01:17:31.239 --> 01:17:34.529 Cumbria's most of the remote location from most 01:17:34.529 --> 01:17:37.409 of the north of England because of course I, 01:17:38.229 --> 01:17:39.449 you're going to have to correct me now, is it 01:17:39.449 --> 01:17:42.090 below the Lake District or is it part of the 01:17:42.090 --> 01:17:44.510 Lake District? Look how bad my geography is. 01:17:44.770 --> 01:17:47.439 The Lake District is part of Cumbria. There we 01:17:47.439 --> 01:17:50.039 go. Thank you. Thank you. I live in the north 01:17:50.039 --> 01:17:51.939 of England, ladies and gents, but I'm pretty 01:17:51.939 --> 01:17:54.439 much just on the eastern side between York and 01:17:54.439 --> 01:17:56.420 Scarborough. That's the extent of my knowledge. 01:17:56.819 --> 01:17:59.060 Well, between Huddersfield and Scarborough. And 01:17:59.060 --> 01:18:01.520 now in the West Yorkshire part. But I think it's 01:18:01.520 --> 01:18:03.479 really good that Cumbria has that connection, 01:18:03.600 --> 01:18:05.819 that representation of Viking history, because 01:18:05.819 --> 01:18:08.880 the Vikings did copulate a lot. between kind 01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:11.640 of like islands the Isle of Man and then all 01:18:11.640 --> 01:18:14.840 the way across through kind of that area and 01:18:14.840 --> 01:18:17.279 beyond. Exactly. Because you don't always think 01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:19.539 of kind of like you know Northumbria they've 01:18:19.539 --> 01:18:22.239 got definitely got Viking history but it's not 01:18:22.239 --> 01:18:24.159 always put together when you hear the word Viking 01:18:24.159 --> 01:18:27.640 you just think of York or Winchester or Nottingham 01:18:27.640 --> 01:18:29.739 or Derby and of course everything in the south 01:18:29.739 --> 01:18:32.899 is it's so much in the north but then it's not 01:18:32.899 --> 01:18:36.000 always dotted together in common perception I 01:18:36.000 --> 01:18:40.060 think. As well Cumbria is more well known for 01:18:40.060 --> 01:18:44.159 Romans, anyway. Because you've got Hadrian's 01:18:44.159 --> 01:18:47.539 Wall, obviously. Carlisle, big Roman place. You've 01:18:47.539 --> 01:18:50.500 got Maryport, big Roman place. You've got Ravenglass. 01:18:50.619 --> 01:18:53.819 You've got the Roman Baths there. You've got 01:18:53.819 --> 01:18:57.220 Hardnought Fort, the Hardnought Roman Fort and 01:18:57.220 --> 01:19:00.380 the Hardnought Pass. And so everyone thinks about 01:19:00.380 --> 01:19:06.220 Cumbria being a Roman place. But. arguably the 01:19:06.220 --> 01:19:10.439 Vikings had a far greater influence on Cumbria 01:19:10.439 --> 01:19:14.880 because all the names of Cumbria are either the 01:19:14.880 --> 01:19:20.199 old Breton names or Viking names. Yeah, when 01:19:20.199 --> 01:19:22.779 we go out, we don't go out to climb the hills 01:19:22.779 --> 01:19:26.300 or the mountains, we go out on the felds. Feld 01:19:26.300 --> 01:19:32.340 is a Viking word. So and loads and loads of the 01:19:32.340 --> 01:19:36.630 majority of the the town names and whatever are 01:19:36.630 --> 01:19:39.529 all based on Viking names and everything. Yeah. 01:19:40.189 --> 01:19:42.489 So, but back to Moreforge, like you say, having 01:19:42.489 --> 01:19:46.890 Moreforge there is brilliant because when schools 01:19:46.890 --> 01:19:51.130 in Cumbria wanted to do, when they're doing Vikings 01:19:51.130 --> 01:19:53.869 as part of the Vikings Park curriculum, if they 01:19:53.869 --> 01:19:56.590 wanted to do a school visit about Vikings, they 01:19:56.590 --> 01:19:59.590 had to go to Yorvik Viking Center. Yes, which 01:19:59.590 --> 01:20:02.630 is a fair trip from Cumbria. So basically it'd 01:20:02.630 --> 01:20:04.649 be part of a residential where they go away for 01:20:04.649 --> 01:20:07.630 a few days or a week or whatever. So part of 01:20:07.630 --> 01:20:12.170 a much bigger thing. But now I get schools usually 01:20:12.170 --> 01:20:15.710 within about an hour's drive. So south of Cumbria 01:20:15.710 --> 01:20:18.710 is a bit more problematic, but certainly it's 01:20:18.710 --> 01:20:22.010 all west Cumbria all the way out to Penrith and 01:20:22.010 --> 01:20:26.369 all the way out to Tullisle and down to Whitehaven 01:20:26.369 --> 01:20:32.439 as well. So that area of north and central Cumbria, 01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:35.000 we've basically got a Viking place that schools 01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:38.439 can go and just go for the day. So up to an hour 01:20:38.439 --> 01:20:40.960 to get there is quite reasonable. I normally 01:20:40.960 --> 01:20:43.800 do a day there, sort of like 10 till 2. So that's 01:20:43.800 --> 01:20:45.560 a good four hours there with half hour lunch. 01:20:45.960 --> 01:20:48.600 And it's immersive because we have the Little 01:20:48.600 --> 01:20:52.039 Longhouse, we've got the Smithy, we've got We've 01:20:52.039 --> 01:20:55.720 now got the big long house, a workshop, we've 01:20:55.720 --> 01:20:57.819 got a vegetable garden, we've got a willow copse, 01:20:57.859 --> 01:21:01.739 we've got poles. Oh nice. We've also got a grave, 01:21:01.859 --> 01:21:05.819 we've got a rune stone as well now. Oh wow. And 01:21:05.819 --> 01:21:08.479 the plans for the future are to have a palisade 01:21:08.479 --> 01:21:11.840 around it with an animal barn, we're going to 01:21:11.840 --> 01:21:15.199 have a small chapel there which we hope to get 01:21:15.199 --> 01:21:19.159 consecrated and a stone wheel cross as well because 01:21:19.809 --> 01:21:23.770 But morphology is based in the 10th century and 01:21:23.770 --> 01:21:28.270 was a time, certainly in Cumbria, of transition 01:21:28.270 --> 01:21:31.750 from paganism to Christianity. Oh, yes. Yeah. 01:21:31.829 --> 01:21:34.390 So one of the things that we keep on showing 01:21:34.390 --> 01:21:36.909 is that transition. So we're going to have hogsbacks 01:21:36.909 --> 01:21:39.029 there. We've got the rune stone. We've got a 01:21:39.029 --> 01:21:42.069 Viking grave. We've also got a Christian. They 01:21:42.069 --> 01:21:45.130 also want to have a Christian chapel and a Christian 01:21:45.130 --> 01:21:48.350 cross as well to show that transition. Have you 01:21:48.350 --> 01:21:49.970 decided who's going to be in the grave? Who's 01:21:49.970 --> 01:21:51.869 it going to be dedicated to on the Rune Stone? 01:21:52.369 --> 01:21:57.270 Well, the Rune Stone, well, unfortunately, one 01:21:57.270 --> 01:22:00.430 of the core members of the Viking, of the Moorforge 01:22:00.430 --> 01:22:06.750 team, died back in 2020, him and his wife, Sigvard 01:22:06.750 --> 01:22:11.770 his name was, and he was, he'd do anything at 01:22:11.770 --> 01:22:14.029 Moorforge, anything needed doing, Sigvard was 01:22:14.029 --> 01:22:17.079 there. but he died, him and his wife both died 01:22:17.079 --> 01:22:21.840 of Covid. Oh I'm so sorry. Yeah, which was a 01:22:21.840 --> 01:22:23.699 great tragedy because as well as being a brilliant 01:22:23.699 --> 01:22:26.439 volunteer, he also made the most fantastic mead 01:22:26.439 --> 01:22:32.239 as well, so he was more of a mead maker. So we 01:22:32.239 --> 01:22:35.520 put a grave, like a boat shaped stone grave, 01:22:36.199 --> 01:22:41.579 and we say that is where Sigvard is. What a fitting 01:22:41.579 --> 01:22:47.319 dedication. And the rune stone is basically to 01:22:47.319 --> 01:22:57.180 memorialize Sigurd and his wife. And it's actually 01:22:57.180 --> 01:23:00.840 had an international team of experts working 01:23:00.840 --> 01:23:04.319 on it to get the inscription right. So Adam Parsons, 01:23:05.319 --> 01:23:08.020 who is an archaeologist with Oxford Archaeology 01:23:08.020 --> 01:23:11.300 North and who also does blue -axe reproduction. 01:23:12.039 --> 01:23:14.539 yep so you know i need to invite him on one day 01:23:14.539 --> 01:23:21.000 i will be yeah yeah he knows so much i learned 01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:25.279 loads of him and also as well as that like head 01:23:25.279 --> 01:23:28.460 knowledge he's such a talented craftsman the 01:23:28.460 --> 01:23:30.760 stuff that he does the stuff that he does is 01:23:30.760 --> 01:23:34.539 actually amazing but um actually it's quite funny 01:23:34.539 --> 01:23:43.380 because i think it was about 20 22 or 23. Judith 01:23:43.380 --> 01:23:50.520 Jesch. Oh, yes. Every year she used to bring, 01:23:50.939 --> 01:23:53.199 I think she's retired now, hasn't she? Well, 01:23:53.199 --> 01:23:56.479 she's now got a visiting professor position at 01:23:56.479 --> 01:23:58.819 the University of Highlands and Islands. Yes, 01:23:58.819 --> 01:24:01.439 that's right. She's now got a new book out lately, 01:24:01.579 --> 01:24:04.560 one about the Giles of Orkney, which I have to 01:24:04.560 --> 01:24:09.100 add to my reading list. Yes. Yeah, but anyway, 01:24:09.560 --> 01:24:12.079 so see every year she used to bring her postgrad 01:24:12.079 --> 01:24:16.220 students to Cumbria because loads and loads and 01:24:16.220 --> 01:24:21.539 loads of sites in Cumbria, but yeah, I live Not 01:24:21.539 --> 01:24:26.859 far from the gossip cross and the earthen cross 01:24:26.859 --> 01:24:33.279 and yeah, there's About three miles across and 01:24:33.279 --> 01:24:35.020 the hogs backs and everything and there's hogs 01:24:35.020 --> 01:24:39.039 backs all over the place and fragments of various 01:24:39.039 --> 01:24:40.979 carvings all over the place from Viking times. 01:24:41.760 --> 01:24:44.180 And so she comes to bring them, do the tour. 01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:48.840 And Adam invited her to come to Moorforge. And 01:24:48.840 --> 01:24:50.600 it turned out, we were on a day where I'd just 01:24:50.600 --> 01:24:52.939 had a school there. So we arranged, the school's 01:24:52.939 --> 01:24:55.939 gone by sort of two half two. So they came after 01:24:55.939 --> 01:24:59.039 that. So I think they came about sort of three 01:24:59.039 --> 01:25:03.199 o 'clock or something. And the idea was, They 01:25:03.199 --> 01:25:05.640 were going, I'll keep all my school stuff out. 01:25:07.140 --> 01:25:10.800 And Adam was going to do a tour of the site and 01:25:10.800 --> 01:25:15.100 everything. And then, like, they could spend 01:25:15.100 --> 01:25:18.260 a few minutes with me, sort of. And what was 01:25:18.260 --> 01:25:20.960 supposed to have been a 45 -minute visit ended 01:25:20.960 --> 01:25:24.239 up being two and a half hours. That's the best 01:25:24.239 --> 01:25:28.439 kind of visit, though. Because I also brought 01:25:28.439 --> 01:25:32.409 a couple of spare cabbages with me. And I have 01:25:32.409 --> 01:25:35.470 my quite striking stuff. And so as well as like 01:25:35.470 --> 01:25:38.550 tour of the site and everything, they were looking 01:25:38.550 --> 01:25:41.090 at all the artifacts on my table and I sort of 01:25:41.090 --> 01:25:43.489 talking to him about that and all the different 01:25:43.489 --> 01:25:45.750 bits and pieces. And then, yeah, and these are 01:25:45.750 --> 01:25:50.029 PhD students. And that's the thing, like PhD 01:25:50.029 --> 01:25:55.890 students in Viking stuff. And they were all just 01:25:55.890 --> 01:25:58.949 absolutely wrapped at the stuff I tell school 01:25:58.949 --> 01:26:03.869 kids. And and they all had to do some coin striking 01:26:03.869 --> 01:26:08.329 and brilliant and also Highlight for them was 01:26:08.329 --> 01:26:11.170 using my sharp Dane axe on cabbage use as well. 01:26:13.050 --> 01:26:16.229 I Think it should be part of every course So 01:26:16.229 --> 01:26:19.170 so what was supposed to be a 45 minute visit 01:26:19.170 --> 01:26:21.869 turned into two and a half hours because and 01:26:21.869 --> 01:26:23.590 they they had to postpone their visit to the 01:26:23.590 --> 01:26:25.310 Gosseth cross because they spent their time or 01:26:25.310 --> 01:26:27.550 forge with me instead But yeah, so that was that 01:26:27.550 --> 01:26:30.859 was awesome. But anyway So when Sigwald died, 01:26:34.100 --> 01:26:35.819 we thought, would it be good to have a runestone? 01:26:36.479 --> 01:26:41.500 And he said, well, I'll talk to Judith and see 01:26:41.500 --> 01:26:45.960 if she can do the translation and the runes. 01:26:46.220 --> 01:26:50.800 And Judith also wrote in two or three other world 01:26:50.800 --> 01:26:53.760 experts. And so what we've got on our runestone 01:26:53.760 --> 01:27:03.220 is runes of the period of the dialect that would 01:27:03.220 --> 01:27:07.779 have been spoken in that time. That's amazing. 01:27:09.239 --> 01:27:13.060 Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, as this does speak 01:27:13.060 --> 01:27:15.180 about our family, do they know about this wonderful 01:27:15.180 --> 01:27:18.380 memory? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They said 01:27:18.380 --> 01:27:21.140 they must be dead chuffed with how well everything 01:27:21.140 --> 01:27:24.979 is going for that. Yeah. But the really funny 01:27:24.979 --> 01:27:29.850 thing is, like, There's two quotes from David, 01:27:29.850 --> 01:27:34.829 David Watson, the owner. The first was like, 01:27:35.029 --> 01:27:40.109 build and they will come. And my favorite quote 01:27:40.109 --> 01:27:43.569 from him, yeah, because we've now got this site 01:27:43.569 --> 01:27:45.430 that's still under construction, but this site 01:27:45.430 --> 01:27:48.060 that. It's become an education hub. It's become 01:27:48.060 --> 01:27:51.699 a social hub. It's become a hub for reenactors 01:27:51.699 --> 01:27:53.460 and people all over the world. And we've had 01:27:53.460 --> 01:27:56.359 world experts work on the rune stone and everything. 01:27:56.859 --> 01:27:59.779 And it's all that. And he sort of looks, and 01:27:59.779 --> 01:28:03.739 sometimes he says it a bit plaintively. It's 01:28:03.739 --> 01:28:14.819 sort of just a hobby that got out of hand. I 01:28:14.819 --> 01:28:17.439 need people to talk to about biking stuff with 01:28:17.439 --> 01:28:19.819 and none of my immediate family or my friends 01:28:19.819 --> 01:28:22.520 circle or if my work colleagues They're just 01:28:22.520 --> 01:28:25.560 not on this level. I need to find people of your 01:28:25.560 --> 01:28:35.779 ill of my kindred to spirit Yeah, but I'm sure 01:28:35.779 --> 01:28:39.590 you've heard of this the the Longhouse that was 01:28:39.590 --> 01:28:43.289 found at High Tarns. I did, I heard it was popping 01:28:43.289 --> 01:28:45.729 up all over social media back when I used to 01:28:45.729 --> 01:28:49.590 be on Twitter at the time. So that was another 01:28:49.590 --> 01:28:54.789 grandpa's project. Wow. And they were Originally 01:28:54.789 --> 01:28:56.930 they were thinking it was going to be a site 01:28:56.930 --> 01:29:00.170 associated with, because there's an abbey site 01:29:00.170 --> 01:29:04.149 there, homely, or I can't remember the name of 01:29:04.149 --> 01:29:07.770 it. You notice I'm not very good at names. Anyway, 01:29:07.770 --> 01:29:13.149 because there's a major abbey there. It's near 01:29:13.149 --> 01:29:14.750 Silworth. It's about eight miles from Willow 01:29:14.750 --> 01:29:21.560 Forge, as the crow flies. When they actually 01:29:21.560 --> 01:29:23.800 did so they they sort of looked at the GF it 01:29:23.800 --> 01:29:26.840 but they looked at the like Google Maps Yeah, 01:29:26.840 --> 01:29:29.319 Google Earth stuff. I thought there's something 01:29:29.319 --> 01:29:33.300 there so Grandpa said right, let's get some funding 01:29:33.300 --> 01:29:36.699 and we think it's going to be to do with the 01:29:36.699 --> 01:29:40.060 the Abbey that's nearby It turned out to be a 01:29:40.060 --> 01:29:45.199 longhouse If you if you ever come to more for 01:29:45.199 --> 01:29:47.939 which you do need to one day I will do one day. 01:29:47.939 --> 01:29:52.170 It's on my bucket list Yeah, and come come the 01:29:52.170 --> 01:29:54.090 craft fair is a good time to come because you've 01:29:54.090 --> 01:29:56.689 got loads and loads of top quality crafters there 01:29:56.689 --> 01:30:01.310 or there's the The training and traders which 01:30:01.310 --> 01:30:04.729 is in June and the craft fair is in May on that 01:30:04.729 --> 01:30:07.289 It's all it's all on the Warforged Facebook page. 01:30:07.310 --> 01:30:13.250 Anyway, anyway, so the our big longhouse is 18 01:30:13.250 --> 01:30:19.449 meters by seven and it's widest The longhouse 01:30:19.449 --> 01:30:24.229 that they excavated, they have measured it as 01:30:24.229 --> 01:30:30.050 50 meters by 15. Wow. And when you go into our 01:30:30.050 --> 01:30:32.329 big longhouse, now that it's all covered up and 01:30:32.329 --> 01:30:35.489 it's actually a room, it still needs a front 01:30:35.489 --> 01:30:38.369 door on it. But when you go in there, you think, 01:30:38.550 --> 01:30:40.710 oh my God, this is amazing. Because one of the 01:30:40.710 --> 01:30:42.409 things that we're going to be starting next year 01:30:42.409 --> 01:30:47.260 is Viking experience weekends. Oh, yes. I'll 01:30:47.260 --> 01:30:52.300 sign up I'll start saving now and so you know 01:30:52.300 --> 01:30:55.460 groups of well we're saying a minimum of 10 to 01:30:55.460 --> 01:30:59.640 make it worth our while up to about 20 ish so 01:30:59.640 --> 01:31:04.000 it's not too big but we're going to be starting 01:31:04.000 --> 01:31:08.920 doing those but next year we've got the Midgard 01:31:08.920 --> 01:31:13.300 Viking Brotherhood coming for their international 01:31:13.560 --> 01:31:17.640 meeting. They've been coming for a couple of 01:31:17.640 --> 01:31:19.500 years now when they actually it's quite funny 01:31:19.500 --> 01:31:25.279 when they first approached us I had no idea who 01:31:25.279 --> 01:31:30.399 they were and you know as a public meeting re 01:31:30.399 --> 01:31:33.779 -enactor or historian as I prefer to call myself 01:31:33.779 --> 01:31:37.699 sounds a bit more official. Living historian 01:31:37.699 --> 01:31:42.930 is the other phrase I've heard. When I first 01:31:42.930 --> 01:31:45.789 heard about it, I thought, oh dear, this sounds 01:31:45.789 --> 01:31:49.170 dodgy. Are they going to be a weird pagan group 01:31:49.170 --> 01:31:51.069 who've got all their Viking knowledge from the 01:31:51.069 --> 01:31:54.890 Vikings TV series? Or even worse, is it going 01:31:54.890 --> 01:31:57.390 to be one of those pagan neo -Nazi biker gangs? 01:31:57.689 --> 01:32:00.189 Yes. There is an issue with right wings, unfortunately. 01:32:00.390 --> 01:32:04.329 Yes. But when I looked into them, they are awesome. 01:32:04.770 --> 01:32:13.390 They are a Viking -y Pagani. men's mental health 01:32:13.390 --> 01:32:17.850 self -help group. Wow. We do loads of charity 01:32:17.850 --> 01:32:22.350 work for mental health awareness. That sounds, 01:32:22.489 --> 01:32:24.710 that does sound awesome. Absolutely. It's much 01:32:24.710 --> 01:32:28.050 needed. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome people. And 01:32:28.050 --> 01:32:34.010 they approached us saying, can you put on a Viking 01:32:34.010 --> 01:32:37.050 event for us over the weekend? You know, you 01:32:37.050 --> 01:32:40.789 know, feast and all sorts of stuff. and we did 01:32:40.789 --> 01:32:46.649 and uh this will be I think next year will be 01:32:46.649 --> 01:32:49.409 their fourth visit but they're having their international 01:32:49.409 --> 01:32:53.529 meet now because we're we're we're limited on 01:32:53.529 --> 01:32:56.449 the amount of people we can have you've limited 01:32:56.449 --> 01:33:00.449 the numbers to 100 which they could easily get 01:33:00.449 --> 01:33:04.649 250 but we said yeah literally can't fit more 01:33:04.649 --> 01:33:10.609 than 100 people here But our hall, we worked 01:33:10.609 --> 01:33:15.569 out that we will in the feast and Sue, David's 01:33:15.569 --> 01:33:20.069 partner. I've been to many Viking feasts, especially 01:33:20.069 --> 01:33:23.449 the Viking Society. And I'm sorry, anyone in 01:33:23.449 --> 01:33:30.329 the mic who has put on feasts, but nobody, absolutely 01:33:30.329 --> 01:33:34.770 nobody puts on a Viking feast like Sue does. 01:33:37.279 --> 01:33:43.220 They are the best. They are the absolute best. 01:33:45.039 --> 01:33:49.039 She is absolutely incredible. And so what we've 01:33:49.039 --> 01:33:52.779 worked out is in the big long house, we should 01:33:52.779 --> 01:33:59.140 be able to seat about 100 to 110 people for a 01:33:59.140 --> 01:34:03.210 sit down Viking feast. In fact, the background 01:34:03.210 --> 01:34:05.590 that you've got, that's basically sort of like 01:34:05.590 --> 01:34:09.909 the way our hall is. And so we're going to have 01:34:09.909 --> 01:34:13.510 benches and tables down outside, except. Brilliant. 01:34:14.090 --> 01:34:17.609 Yeah. So basically, your one is a bit wider than 01:34:17.609 --> 01:34:22.409 ours. But that set up, going to be that set up. 01:34:22.949 --> 01:34:25.770 And we worked out we can get about 110 people, 01:34:26.109 --> 01:34:29.579 including the high seat at the back. um yeah 01:34:29.579 --> 01:34:31.319 this one's also got a high seat although it's 01:34:31.319 --> 01:34:33.439 got a couple of stuffed bears in the corner you'll 01:34:33.439 --> 01:34:36.479 be having stuffed bears yeah you can see yeah 01:34:36.479 --> 01:34:39.520 so uh yeah we should be able to have a feast 01:34:39.520 --> 01:34:42.079 for about 100 people but for the main Viking 01:34:42.079 --> 01:34:44.199 experience weekend we want to limit it to about 01:34:44.199 --> 01:34:47.659 20ish um yeah it's it's much more but yeah for 01:34:47.659 --> 01:34:52.199 yes yeah we do uh combat training uh using foam 01:34:52.199 --> 01:34:55.760 weapons not steel And so we're aiming to get 01:34:55.760 --> 01:34:58.920 sort of corporate people there and stag do's 01:34:58.920 --> 01:35:00.319 and whatever, all that sort of thing. And people 01:35:00.319 --> 01:35:02.960 who just want a fantastic weekend and fantastic 01:35:02.960 --> 01:35:05.920 experience. And so we're gonna be doing those 01:35:05.920 --> 01:35:12.500 next year. But anyway, this long house that they 01:35:12.500 --> 01:35:17.840 found. 50 meters by 18, ours is 18 by 7 and what 01:35:17.840 --> 01:35:20.619 we've worked out is if you took our long house, 01:35:20.899 --> 01:35:23.819 duplicated it and put the other one by its side 01:35:23.819 --> 01:35:27.140 and then duplicate those two and put them on 01:35:27.140 --> 01:35:30.119 the end and then duplicate one more and drop 01:35:30.119 --> 01:35:35.199 the back, that is how big that hole was. Oh my 01:35:35.199 --> 01:35:37.399 gosh. And then you net it for our hole and think 01:35:37.399 --> 01:35:41.359 oh my god. That one that they found, it's the 01:35:41.359 --> 01:35:44.180 largest Viking longhouse they found in the UK, 01:35:44.680 --> 01:35:50.760 in the British Isles, that they excavated. It 01:35:50.760 --> 01:35:54.220 must have been absolutely enormous. Must have 01:35:54.220 --> 01:35:57.000 taken a lot of effort to build as well, to be 01:35:57.000 --> 01:36:00.399 that big. Yeah, yeah. I think it was from about 01:36:00.399 --> 01:36:07.640 970 or 990 to about 1040 it was there. Wow. That's 01:36:07.640 --> 01:36:10.140 remarkable and the fact that you've got all these 01:36:10.140 --> 01:36:12.039 exciting things happening at Moorford to the 01:36:12.039 --> 01:36:15.079 big exciting plans for next year and beyond Yeah, 01:36:15.180 --> 01:36:17.960 it's it's so great because of course I've only 01:36:17.960 --> 01:36:20.680 come across other kind of like three other type 01:36:20.680 --> 01:36:24.340 replica type Viking Houses long houses or otherwise 01:36:24.340 --> 01:36:26.880 and the only one I can think of is it Mern Park? 01:36:27.140 --> 01:36:29.420 Which is outside York, but they're pretty much 01:36:29.420 --> 01:36:32.640 primarily used by the local Yorwick I think it 01:36:32.640 --> 01:36:35.720 is called the Yorvik Vikings group. Yeah. And 01:36:35.720 --> 01:36:38.939 I managed to organize a slight coup of sorts 01:36:38.939 --> 01:36:41.939 in that I had, I was into cosplay many years 01:36:41.939 --> 01:36:45.619 ago before, before COVID, primarily for the Dragon 01:36:45.619 --> 01:36:48.119 Age game and organized a Dragon Age photo shoot 01:36:48.119 --> 01:36:51.140 at Men Park using their buildings and scenes 01:36:51.140 --> 01:36:53.260 and stuff. And we only were able to achieve it 01:36:53.260 --> 01:36:55.539 because one of my friends in the cosplay group 01:36:55.539 --> 01:36:58.199 was also a reenactment and she knew the guy that 01:36:58.199 --> 01:37:00.520 ran Men Parks. So it's kind of like, you know 01:37:00.520 --> 01:37:02.859 who? collection but I know they don't really 01:37:02.859 --> 01:37:04.800 do much public things but they also host lots 01:37:04.800 --> 01:37:07.319 of school visits such as Millforge does. And 01:37:07.319 --> 01:37:09.560 then there's the ancient technology centre all 01:37:09.560 --> 01:37:11.520 the way down in Dorset which I managed to go 01:37:11.520 --> 01:37:13.359 to one of my many family holidays in Dorset and 01:37:13.359 --> 01:37:16.300 see their impressive little house. They do Viking 01:37:16.300 --> 01:37:18.140 weekends as well so there's only three that I 01:37:18.140 --> 01:37:20.579 know of in the entire country of England considering 01:37:20.579 --> 01:37:24.840 how much Viking heritage we have. Yeah and they're 01:37:24.840 --> 01:37:27.369 building one on the Isle of Man as well. Oh, 01:37:27.689 --> 01:37:32.270 that's brilliant. Actually inspired by more forge. 01:37:32.569 --> 01:37:35.050 Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah. So more forge was 01:37:35.050 --> 01:37:37.210 also inspired someone else to build one on the 01:37:37.210 --> 01:37:39.130 other man. You'll have to sound like a little 01:37:39.130 --> 01:37:41.010 raiding party to visit have a feast and then 01:37:41.010 --> 01:37:43.689 invite them over. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think they've 01:37:43.689 --> 01:37:45.470 got any. I don't think they've got a long house 01:37:45.470 --> 01:37:49.949 up yet. Again, it's like a matter of funding 01:37:49.949 --> 01:37:53.350 because more forge as well. The only building 01:37:53.350 --> 01:37:56.600 that was funded was the Smithy. originally back 01:37:56.600 --> 01:38:00.779 in 2014 everything else has been self -funded 01:38:00.779 --> 01:38:05.000 through school visits and events that we hold 01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:09.579 there and whatever of his own money that David 01:38:09.579 --> 01:38:14.359 can put in so it's entirely self -funded. You 01:38:14.359 --> 01:38:18.159 say it's all run by volunteers is it not? Yeah 01:38:18.159 --> 01:38:21.220 yeah yeah yeah basically yeah it's all volunteers. 01:38:22.009 --> 01:38:24.710 So they're mostly volunteers at the Ancient Technology 01:38:24.710 --> 01:38:28.310 Centre as well? Yeah, I pay David to use the 01:38:28.310 --> 01:38:32.189 site, so I charge the school and then the money 01:38:32.189 --> 01:38:35.729 the school gives me, some of that goes to Moorforge 01:38:35.729 --> 01:38:40.270 and all the events, they all pay part of what 01:38:40.270 --> 01:38:44.189 they get to Moorforge, basically to finish the 01:38:44.189 --> 01:38:46.050 buildings because I think David wants to have 01:38:46.050 --> 01:38:48.909 it done, completed in the next couple of years. 01:38:50.159 --> 01:38:57.680 yeah he's approaching retirement age he's got 01:38:57.680 --> 01:39:00.800 a wonderful legacy oh yeah basically more forge 01:39:00.800 --> 01:39:03.739 more forge is yeah that's his retirement package 01:39:03.739 --> 01:39:08.920 is more forge um and then uh yeah and people 01:39:08.920 --> 01:39:13.199 like me using it so yeah and and yeah i'm hoping 01:39:13.199 --> 01:39:15.560 that especially if we can get these viking experience 01:39:15.560 --> 01:39:19.220 weekends off the ground that I'll still do events 01:39:19.220 --> 01:39:23.000 and stuff and schools. But basically more forward 01:39:23.000 --> 01:39:25.699 will become my main source of income is what 01:39:25.699 --> 01:39:29.180 I'm hoping. I mean, it's been 10 years in the 01:39:29.180 --> 01:39:36.539 build up to it. So yeah. Fingers crossed. Well, 01:39:36.739 --> 01:39:40.000 it has been such a real joy and pleasure speaking 01:39:40.000 --> 01:39:42.180 to you about all of this, Terry. You've got so 01:39:42.180 --> 01:39:44.399 many fascinating stories, standard notes. Thank 01:39:44.399 --> 01:39:46.760 you. And things and knowledge, the knowledge 01:39:46.760 --> 01:39:50.859 your brain has, I am in awe of it. I really am. 01:39:50.859 --> 01:39:52.979 I do go on a bit, don't I? I do go on a bit. 01:39:53.359 --> 01:39:56.439 Oh, no. It's all brilliant stuff. It is captivating. 01:39:56.460 --> 01:39:58.739 And that's why adults and kids really will listen 01:39:58.739 --> 01:40:01.899 to you. And I hope I am as passionate about as 01:40:01.899 --> 01:40:06.380 my crazy Viking geekiness. I am as at your regal 01:40:06.380 --> 01:40:08.640 age, sir, because it's just, it's sensational 01:40:08.640 --> 01:40:12.680 and kind of like, yeah, it's so great to have 01:40:12.680 --> 01:40:16.039 you and I. really wish you many many many more 01:40:16.039 --> 01:40:18.600 years successful being a science viking i want 01:40:18.600 --> 01:40:20.680 many more cavities to fall underneath your axe 01:40:20.680 --> 01:40:24.600 blade and of course i wish more for all the success 01:40:24.600 --> 01:40:26.960 it can for you and the rest of the team there 01:40:26.960 --> 01:40:30.840 and i will definitely try and visit one day one 01:40:30.840 --> 01:40:33.699 day maybe i'll even drag my kid along or kids 01:40:33.699 --> 01:40:37.140 depending on how life turns out um just to show 01:40:37.140 --> 01:40:39.979 because i i will i have a secret agenda of slowly 01:40:39.979 --> 01:40:42.140 converting she knows mommy likes vikings and 01:40:42.140 --> 01:40:45.119 she knows mommy likes Thor And that's the extent 01:40:45.119 --> 01:40:49.020 of their knowledge so far. But yes. Yeah. Well, 01:40:49.359 --> 01:40:53.020 May next year we've got the craft fair. June 01:40:53.020 --> 01:40:57.260 is the traders and training where we've got the 01:40:57.260 --> 01:41:00.699 Eastern, the Polish Vikings groups there. And 01:41:00.699 --> 01:41:05.380 they do put on quite a good show. Fabulous. Well, 01:41:05.479 --> 01:41:07.899 if anyone's near Cumbria, traveling to Cumbria, 01:41:07.939 --> 01:41:09.819 or just wants a reason to go to Cumbria, here 01:41:09.819 --> 01:41:13.180 is your reason. I'll be there moving my coins, 01:41:13.260 --> 01:41:16.420 biking and my cabbage killing and basically on 01:41:16.420 --> 01:41:20.159 the entertainment. What a brilliant entertainment 01:41:20.159 --> 01:41:22.180 you are and I really appreciate you taking your 01:41:22.180 --> 01:41:23.640 time out of your busy day because I know you're 01:41:23.640 --> 01:41:25.720 going back to Moorforge today to pick up some 01:41:25.720 --> 01:41:27.739 stuff to go to more events and more schools. 01:41:27.960 --> 01:41:30.159 Yes I've got school tomorrow so I'll go to Moorforge 01:41:30.159 --> 01:41:32.560 to go and fetch all my stuff. Well thank you 01:41:32.560 --> 01:41:40.000 very much for having me. What since since February 01:41:40.000 --> 01:41:43.619 I've been looking forward to it. It's been one 01:41:43.619 --> 01:41:46.020 planning because back back in February I can 01:41:46.020 --> 01:41:47.880 only do one episode per month but now my kid 01:41:47.880 --> 01:41:51.119 is at school. Thank you Tony five. I have time 01:41:51.119 --> 01:41:56.159 in a day to do more Viking talks episodes. So 01:41:56.159 --> 01:41:58.920 thank you very much again and do check out the 01:41:58.920 --> 01:42:01.140 Science Viking website, check out more Forge. 01:42:01.239 --> 01:42:03.739 You can follow Toby's Instagram account and see 01:42:03.739 --> 01:42:05.439 photos of what he's up to and all his various 01:42:05.439 --> 01:42:07.710 guises. and where he's at next and of course 01:42:07.710 --> 01:42:09.890 he will be at Jorvik Viking Festival but I will 01:42:09.890 --> 01:42:11.770 definitely find you again and give you another 01:42:11.770 --> 01:42:15.989 big hug because I just adore you sir. Oh yes 01:42:15.989 --> 01:42:19.130 you can never have too many hugs can you? And 01:42:19.130 --> 01:42:21.149 what better than to hug a Viking really because 01:42:21.149 --> 01:42:24.789 they're as friendly as they are scary sometimes 01:42:24.789 --> 01:42:27.930 depending on how you approach them. I'm a very 01:42:27.930 --> 01:42:31.039 friendly Viking. Well, thank you very much for 01:42:31.039 --> 01:42:33.140 attending, Terry, today. And thank you to anyone 01:42:33.140 --> 01:42:35.479 who's listened and watched this long. It's been 01:42:35.479 --> 01:42:38.119 a long episode, but I hope you enjoyed. I certainly 01:42:38.119 --> 01:42:40.800 have. And of course, do subscribe wherever you're 01:42:40.800 --> 01:42:42.939 watching and listening for more fascinating guests 01:42:42.939 --> 01:42:46.420 and their all -North talk coming up soon. Thank 01:42:46.420 --> 01:42:48.199 you very much. Bye, everyone. And thanks for 01:42:48.199 --> 01:43:08.520 having me. Thank you, Terry. See you. Thank you 01:43:08.520 --> 01:43:11.939 very much for listening to this episode. I hope 01:43:11.939 --> 01:43:14.319 you enjoyed the discussions between my special 01:43:14.319 --> 01:43:17.960 guests and myself. Please do check out the episode 01:43:17.960 --> 01:43:20.300 blurb for links to their works and websites. 01:43:20.880 --> 01:43:23.300 If you liked this episode let me know by giving 01:43:23.300 --> 01:43:26.140 it a thumbs up, let me know if you learned something 01:43:26.140 --> 01:43:29.239 new in the comments and of course click subscribe 01:43:29.239 --> 01:43:32.359 to Valhalla Conversations wherever you are listening 01:43:32.359 --> 01:43:36.039 or watching. This podcast can be watched on YouTube 01:43:36.039 --> 01:43:38.979 and YouTube Music. and it can also be listened 01:43:38.979 --> 01:43:43.159 to on Spotify, Amazon Music, Podcast Intex and 01:43:43.159 --> 01:43:47.260 on RSS .com. We hope you can join us in Valhalla 01:43:47.260 --> 01:43:49.479 again soon for more conversations.