WEBVTT 00:00:18.240 --> 00:00:21.519 Welcome to Valhalla Conversations podcast. I'm your host Becky Hill, 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:24.699 otherwise known as Soul Chaser Becky and I am 00:00:24.699 --> 00:00:27.559 a proud Viking geek. I fell in love with the 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:29.760 history, culture and mythology of the Viking 00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:32.299 Age and I have been on an endless quest for more 00:00:32.299 --> 00:00:36.439 ever since. Join me as I discuss all things North 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:38.619 with those who have been inspired by Viking Age 00:00:38.619 --> 00:00:40.960 history and North mythology in their creative 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:43.920 works or those who have studied the sagas and 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:47.020 archaeology and review. how such subjects are 00:00:47.020 --> 00:00:50.179 being presented to modern audiences today. If 00:00:50.179 --> 00:00:53.460 you like Viking stuff you are welcome in my Valhalla 00:00:53.460 --> 00:01:24.890 and I hope you stay for the conversation. This 00:01:24.890 --> 00:01:28.069 episode of Valhalla Conversations is dedicated 00:01:28.069 --> 00:01:32.290 to comic artist Tim Odland who sadly passed away 00:01:32.290 --> 00:01:37.549 this summer of 2025. Tim's lifelong dream was 00:01:37.549 --> 00:01:40.969 to illustrate a comic published by Image Comics. 00:01:41.769 --> 00:01:45.650 Beware the Eye of Odin is that comic, that dream. 00:01:47.530 --> 00:01:50.689 I will treasure it always in Tim's memory for 00:01:50.689 --> 00:01:55.000 an example of his amazing talent. Thank you for 00:01:55.000 --> 00:02:14.469 your dream, Tim. Rest in peace. Welcome everyone 00:02:14.469 --> 00:02:17.189 to Valhalla Conversations podcast. After a bit 00:02:17.189 --> 00:02:19.650 of hiatus through September and October for a 00:02:19.650 --> 00:02:22.110 wonderful variety of reasons, we are back. Valhalla 00:02:22.110 --> 00:02:24.530 is open and our newest guest, I am delighted 00:02:24.530 --> 00:02:27.810 to announce, is Doug Wagner. And he is here to 00:02:27.810 --> 00:02:30.909 speak to me about his wonderful comic book, because 00:02:30.909 --> 00:02:33.629 I have the combined edition here, called Beware 00:02:33.629 --> 00:02:36.090 the Eye of Odin. Now, if that doesn't scream 00:02:36.090 --> 00:02:40.409 Viking to you, then you need glasses. So, welcome 00:02:40.409 --> 00:02:42.830 Doug, welcome to Valhalla. Well, thank you so 00:02:42.830 --> 00:02:44.409 much for having me on, Becca. I've been looking 00:02:44.409 --> 00:02:46.669 forward to talking to you. So this is awesome. 00:02:47.909 --> 00:02:50.789 Brilliant. Would I be safe to say that maybe 00:02:50.789 --> 00:02:53.530 this particular comic series is one of your lesser 00:02:53.530 --> 00:02:55.310 -known titles? Because I know you've kind of 00:02:55.310 --> 00:02:59.469 got a wonderful serial killer, fashionista comic 00:02:59.469 --> 00:03:01.770 arc going on that's only recently finished, I 00:03:01.770 --> 00:03:04.349 believe. That would be fair. Yeah, Beware of 00:03:04.349 --> 00:03:05.990 the Odin is definitely probably one of my lesser 00:03:05.990 --> 00:03:09.099 -known titles. I've kind of become known. whether 00:03:09.099 --> 00:03:11.759 I wanted to or not for doing serial killers and 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:14.639 cannibalistic furries so that's kind of like 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:16.280 what I'm known for but you know I do love to 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:18.520 dive into other stuff so this is one of my favorites. 00:03:19.419 --> 00:03:21.979 Oh well I'm pleased but I don't know how it came 00:03:21.979 --> 00:03:25.159 up on my algorithm on socials and it's like I 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:27.319 need to have that that looks amazing so it's 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:29.319 straight to my local comic book shop and thankfully 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:31.780 Kapow comics were able to get it in for me and 00:03:31.780 --> 00:03:33.740 I've reread it at least twice now and I just 00:03:33.740 --> 00:03:36.840 absolutely love it. So I guess we should start 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:39.479 at the beginning. Where did the idea for this 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:44.159 amazing original North story, in a way, come 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:47.060 from? Well, I mean, Tim Odlin, the artist and 00:03:47.060 --> 00:03:50.539 I, we started out, I moved here in Utah probably 00:03:50.539 --> 00:03:53.180 about 10 years ago, and he and I just started 00:03:53.180 --> 00:03:56.300 going to, I met him at, I'm getting confused, 00:03:56.379 --> 00:04:00.770 let me start over. We met at what we have down 00:04:00.770 --> 00:04:02.509 in Salt Lake, a drink and draw. So a lot of comic 00:04:02.509 --> 00:04:04.310 book artists and other artists of animation and 00:04:04.310 --> 00:04:05.770 stuff get together once a week and just kind 00:04:05.770 --> 00:04:08.009 of like sit and talk business and doodle and 00:04:08.009 --> 00:04:10.389 that kind of stuff. And we found out like we 00:04:10.389 --> 00:04:13.069 live like five minutes from each other. So we 00:04:13.069 --> 00:04:14.490 started like, I was like, hey, why don't we just 00:04:14.490 --> 00:04:16.110 start writing together and save the gas money? 00:04:16.149 --> 00:04:18.620 Because it's like a 30 minute trip for us. And 00:04:18.620 --> 00:04:20.639 we started driving together and quickly became 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:22.860 friends. Tim was like one of the sweetest human 00:04:22.860 --> 00:04:25.240 beings that ever met, you know, and he was an 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:27.660 artist. I loved his work. And then we decided 00:04:27.660 --> 00:04:30.120 we wanted to meet together just one on one. So 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:31.720 strangely as it is, we started meeting every 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:35.399 Wednesday for lunch at Taco Bell. And we'd been 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:37.639 there for like three or four months. And then 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:39.139 one day he goes, hey, why don't we work on something 00:04:39.139 --> 00:04:41.360 together? I go, dude, I'd love to work with you. 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:43.079 Like, I love you. I love your work. Let's do 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:44.759 something. I was like, do you have anything in 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:46.959 mind? He goes, all he said was, I want to do 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.759 Trolls versus Vikings. Oh. Yeah. And I was like, 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:54.139 so. It was an easy like, oh yeah, dude, let's 00:04:54.139 --> 00:04:56.439 do that. And our first plan was to do like a 00:04:56.439 --> 00:04:59.040 40 page one shot. You've obviously read the trade 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:01.040 now. It got kind of, we kind of got away because 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:02.839 we just loved the characters and what we were 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:05.160 doing on the book. And he'd add pages and I'd 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:07.160 add pages and it just became like this 200, you 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:10.779 know, kind of magnum opus. You know, and we were 00:05:10.779 --> 00:05:12.680 gonna release it online at first, you know, that 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:15.019 was a plan But you know, that's that's how it 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:17.699 came to be. That was the basic premise was I 00:05:17.699 --> 00:05:21.259 want to do trolls versus Vikings It's sometimes 00:05:21.259 --> 00:05:23.620 the simplest ideas are the best ideas and I love 00:05:23.620 --> 00:05:25.980 that and there are definitely trolls and there 00:05:25.980 --> 00:05:27.759 are definitely Vikings in the books So you still 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:31.680 take that off? wonderfully well and And I must 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:34.939 say kind of like Tim's art is absolutely gorgeous. 00:05:34.939 --> 00:05:37.339 I just love it. And if I could have that cover 00:05:37.870 --> 00:05:40.129 but in a frame and a wall I definitely would 00:05:40.129 --> 00:05:41.870 have not that I have many walls in this house 00:05:41.870 --> 00:05:44.529 that I can put my Viking stuff on because I live 00:05:44.529 --> 00:05:46.610 with a family so pretty much it's all family 00:05:46.610 --> 00:05:50.089 photos. Alas I will have a Becky cave one day. 00:05:51.449 --> 00:05:53.629 Obviously let's dive into the first the three 00:05:53.629 --> 00:05:56.310 protagonists because there are three and there 00:05:56.310 --> 00:06:00.569 is Helgi a North Prince who has some father issues 00:06:00.569 --> 00:06:03.990 some issues with self -esteem and possibly a 00:06:03.990 --> 00:06:06.750 cursed axe. I'm trying not to give away too much. 00:06:07.329 --> 00:06:10.910 There is Stigar, who is a one -armed smith who's 00:06:10.910 --> 00:06:13.930 Pratch's Prime, as your own term says, and he's 00:06:13.930 --> 00:06:16.670 trying to, again, re -find himself as a warrior 00:06:16.670 --> 00:06:19.149 because people see him as an ex -warrior because 00:06:19.149 --> 00:06:20.949 he's only got one arm, as you would understand 00:06:20.949 --> 00:06:22.430 because you can't really do much with one arm, 00:06:22.470 --> 00:06:24.889 but he finds a way, a very genius way, I absolutely 00:06:24.889 --> 00:06:27.910 love it. And my favourite character of all because 00:06:27.910 --> 00:06:32.819 Valkyries are my catnip. is Caitlyn who in the 00:06:32.819 --> 00:06:35.600 words of the blurb is a female warrior convinced 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:38.839 she is a Valkyrie and I just love that hint of 00:06:38.839 --> 00:06:40.860 doubt kind of like is she the crazy isn't she 00:06:40.860 --> 00:06:42.839 the crazy lady of the village or is she real 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:46.019 and I just absolutely love her absolute kind 00:06:46.019 --> 00:06:48.240 of like just childlike joy and the fact that 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.420 she has a little one -eyed mouse as a companion 00:06:51.420 --> 00:06:54.339 I thought that was just a lovely twist so how 00:06:54.339 --> 00:06:56.079 did you come about with these three characters 00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:59.209 then? I mean, it all started with Helgi, obviously, 00:06:59.329 --> 00:07:00.810 since he's the main character. And we're kind 00:07:00.810 --> 00:07:02.509 of, OK, what can we do with something that's 00:07:02.509 --> 00:07:05.050 a little different with Vikings? We came up with 00:07:05.050 --> 00:07:07.230 Helgi. And then Tim was the one that was like, 00:07:07.250 --> 00:07:09.009 hey, I got this idea for a one -armed character. 00:07:09.149 --> 00:07:10.750 And I was like, OK, I don't know what I'm going 00:07:10.750 --> 00:07:14.930 to do with that, but let's do it. Tim and I would 00:07:14.930 --> 00:07:17.290 just kind of throw out crazy ideas. And then 00:07:17.290 --> 00:07:19.990 I was the one that was like, hey, I'd like to 00:07:19.990 --> 00:07:23.050 kind of have a female character to kind of finish 00:07:23.050 --> 00:07:26.149 out the little team we made. And, you know, just 00:07:26.149 --> 00:07:27.329 kind of started going, hey, I want something 00:07:27.329 --> 00:07:29.430 a little different, a little off center. And 00:07:29.430 --> 00:07:30.949 Caitlin came to mind. I was like, oh, what if 00:07:30.949 --> 00:07:33.029 she thought she was a Valkyrie? Like, what would 00:07:33.029 --> 00:07:34.889 that look like? And how would the town treat 00:07:34.889 --> 00:07:36.990 her? So it was really important to us to have, 00:07:36.990 --> 00:07:39.430 like, Helgi, who's clearly, I mean, in regular 00:07:39.430 --> 00:07:41.509 society, would be a prince. So, you know, he'd 00:07:41.509 --> 00:07:43.870 be a lot more echelon, surrounded by kind of, 00:07:43.870 --> 00:07:46.310 like, two misfits. You know, the kind of the 00:07:46.310 --> 00:07:48.730 town kind of have dismissed these people as maybe 00:07:48.730 --> 00:07:53.050 not the normal worthiness you'd see in a in a 00:07:53.050 --> 00:07:55.250 society. And so it's very important to us to 00:07:55.250 --> 00:07:57.589 throw that into Helgi, because as you mentioned, 00:07:57.709 --> 00:08:00.129 he thinks he's cursed. And so he's like, oh, 00:08:00.129 --> 00:08:03.449 of course I get these two. Because I'm a crazy 00:08:03.449 --> 00:08:05.610 person. He thinks she's a Valkyrie and a guy 00:08:05.610 --> 00:08:09.389 who's a warrior, which makes no sense. That was 00:08:09.389 --> 00:08:12.509 really just us throwing around ideas. And then 00:08:12.509 --> 00:08:15.810 Tim, he ran off with Caitlin immediately and 00:08:15.810 --> 00:08:18.790 came back with that cloak that she wears. It 00:08:18.790 --> 00:08:20.870 was just magnificent. Again, don't want to spoil 00:08:20.870 --> 00:08:23.730 too much. where we want to go with that but then 00:08:23.730 --> 00:08:26.050 like I was like man we need a little animal in 00:08:26.050 --> 00:08:28.310 the in the in the mix and that's where the one 00:08:28.310 --> 00:08:30.850 I came in that kind of like she thinks whispers 00:08:30.850 --> 00:08:37.009 sweet stuff in her ear. Well I must admit kind 00:08:37.009 --> 00:08:38.789 of like it was only after the second reading 00:08:38.789 --> 00:08:44.309 that Helgi really stuck out to me as having definite 00:08:44.309 --> 00:08:48.159 connection with genuine Norse sagas. I don't 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:50.200 know if you ever kind of like read the poetic 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.679 edder or the prose edder and come across the 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:55.740 saga of Helgi Hunding's vein. Yep. Yep. Yep. 00:08:55.740 --> 00:09:00.379 Definitely. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, what was fantastic 00:09:00.379 --> 00:09:02.600 about this whole thing is Tim is actually like 00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:06.559 he's first generation Norwegian American. Tim 00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:10.299 is a Viking. So, you know, it's kind of fun because 00:09:10.299 --> 00:09:12.299 he would start talking about stuff that necessarily 00:09:12.299 --> 00:09:14.580 here in America when we learn Norse mythology, 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:17.730 they didn't. much into so like I knew a little 00:09:17.730 --> 00:09:19.690 bit about trolls but not as much as you know 00:09:19.690 --> 00:09:21.549 like Tim grew up is like that's a major part 00:09:21.549 --> 00:09:25.009 of their mythology elves and all these kind of 00:09:25.009 --> 00:09:26.830 things that he had you know and how they celebrated 00:09:26.830 --> 00:09:29.350 Christmas was different than how I celebrated 00:09:29.350 --> 00:09:31.730 Christmas growing up and so I have to get a lot 00:09:31.730 --> 00:09:33.250 of that to Tim because he would he would hand 00:09:33.250 --> 00:09:35.889 me books and go hey read this and let's use this 00:09:35.889 --> 00:09:38.250 for inspiration he goes I want to do something 00:09:38.250 --> 00:09:41.490 that's that's based on myth you know Norse mythology 00:09:41.490 --> 00:09:43.870 but not necessarily is retelling Norse mythology 00:09:43.870 --> 00:09:46.860 like spin on it because that's kind of like holes 00:09:46.860 --> 00:09:48.460 became the main villain because you know obviously 00:09:48.460 --> 00:09:50.759 everybody's kind of done the frost giants and 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:53.279 you know you know we can go on and on with the 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:54.980 things that have been used so we kind of wanted 00:09:54.980 --> 00:09:58.120 to touch on stuff like you know earthy and smiths 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:00.139 and elves but not necessarily make them the focal 00:10:00.139 --> 00:10:04.000 point that's a good point about the earth and 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:05.759 smiths as well because i thought oh this is a 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:09.220 really fresh take on dwarves and i really really 00:10:09.220 --> 00:10:12.100 like it i actually love because certainly kind 00:10:12.100 --> 00:10:15.330 of in the kind of like original tellings they 00:10:15.330 --> 00:10:17.809 say with the edders mainly kind of describe how 00:10:17.809 --> 00:10:20.309 the races came to be. The dwarves are always 00:10:20.309 --> 00:10:22.610 described as being kind of like being earthy 00:10:22.610 --> 00:10:24.669 or underground like from the underground layer 00:10:24.669 --> 00:10:27.370 of Midgard not from the top like mortals and 00:10:27.370 --> 00:10:29.529 humans are. I thought that's a really clever 00:10:29.529 --> 00:10:32.590 twist on it, really clever twist and it certainly 00:10:32.590 --> 00:10:34.269 explains why they're so good as myths because 00:10:34.269 --> 00:10:38.370 they know they're metalers and they're all. That's 00:10:38.370 --> 00:10:40.049 and then you went right down the same path that 00:10:40.049 --> 00:10:41.730 we did when we were thinking about like how is 00:10:41.730 --> 00:10:43.250 this a little different? It's like, well, they're 00:10:43.250 --> 00:10:45.710 kind of like mountain people. They live inside 00:10:45.710 --> 00:10:49.049 mountains. Like, what would they look like? You 00:10:49.049 --> 00:10:52.029 know, like, humans need light. You know, we need 00:10:52.029 --> 00:10:54.190 outside. And so, like, that's where we kind of, 00:10:54.190 --> 00:10:55.690 like, wanted to do a little shift and go, Oh, 00:10:55.690 --> 00:10:57.289 wait a minute. What if they're, what if they're 00:10:57.289 --> 00:10:59.269 real mountain people? Like, we take that little, 00:10:59.669 --> 00:11:02.110 you know, and so that's kind of like, we kind 00:11:02.110 --> 00:11:06.909 of dove down that, that rabbit hole. But it's 00:11:06.909 --> 00:11:10.070 wonderfully done and certainly it is a refreshing 00:11:10.070 --> 00:11:12.889 change from having Vikings versus Giants because 00:11:12.889 --> 00:11:15.450 of course Giants are always the enemies, at least 00:11:15.450 --> 00:11:17.629 for the gods at least, so it kind of makes sense 00:11:17.629 --> 00:11:19.889 that make them the enemies of the humans, not 00:11:19.889 --> 00:11:21.769 that you ever read about that much in kind of 00:11:21.769 --> 00:11:25.610 like original or even contemporary sources. And 00:11:25.610 --> 00:11:27.850 certainly thinking back to how prominent trolls 00:11:27.850 --> 00:11:30.350 are, it's made me remember that when I went to 00:11:30.350 --> 00:11:32.889 Norway for the first time last summer, for my 00:11:32.889 --> 00:11:35.509 little humble academic debut I did bring back 00:11:35.509 --> 00:11:39.570 a children's story about a little troll and there 00:11:39.570 --> 00:11:41.490 were lots of trolls in there including some with 00:11:41.490 --> 00:11:43.870 multiple heads and multiplies or even one with 00:11:43.870 --> 00:11:45.990 three heads and sharing one eye which was really 00:11:45.990 --> 00:11:49.070 weird but it just shows a variety and the variety 00:11:49.070 --> 00:11:50.970 of trolls you guys have come up with in this 00:11:50.970 --> 00:11:55.389 book I mean they're all incredibly grotesque 00:11:55.389 --> 00:11:58.269 well genuinely not nice characters are absolutely 00:11:59.339 --> 00:12:02.539 applaud the variety of grotesqueness you've invented. 00:12:04.019 --> 00:12:05.740 I mean, I have to give all that credit to Tim. 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:08.600 And I was thinking classic, you know, forearm, 00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:11.700 or, you know, forelimb, one -head falls. And 00:12:11.700 --> 00:12:13.259 Tim came and he's like, man, I want to do something 00:12:13.259 --> 00:12:15.080 crazy. And he started showing me all these things 00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:17.340 that he'd been doing for years on trolls, because, 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:19.779 you know, it's one of his favorites. And I was 00:12:19.779 --> 00:12:21.779 like, dude, we have to do those. Like, there's 00:12:21.779 --> 00:12:23.779 no doubt. And then it was just like, how do we 00:12:23.779 --> 00:12:25.779 fit them in there? And how do we, like, interpret 00:12:25.779 --> 00:12:27.990 their society? you know, and how can we have 00:12:27.990 --> 00:12:30.070 fun with like, you know, as you see in the book, 00:12:30.090 --> 00:12:31.389 when we have to hit, you know, sometimes when 00:12:31.389 --> 00:12:33.389 we have a hit with more than one troll, I mean, 00:12:33.429 --> 00:12:36.649 a troll head, you know, they're trying to talk, 00:12:36.669 --> 00:12:38.350 you know, those kinds of things. It's fun with 00:12:38.350 --> 00:12:40.190 like, hey, let's play with this, make it a little 00:12:40.190 --> 00:12:42.649 grotesque, make it a little bit horrific, but 00:12:42.649 --> 00:12:46.309 at the same time, how can we still have it? It 00:12:46.309 --> 00:12:50.750 is, it's, it's wonderful. I would like to touch 00:12:50.750 --> 00:12:55.330 a bit on perhaps the cursed, well, say the curse. 00:12:55.690 --> 00:12:59.129 the cursed axe that Helgi has and I just love 00:12:59.129 --> 00:13:02.149 the name mischiefs whisper because it's just 00:13:02.149 --> 00:13:04.029 such a gorgeous name and the fact that you then 00:13:04.029 --> 00:13:06.570 tie it in to how it's come from deeper than the 00:13:06.570 --> 00:13:08.570 earth near Loki and of course nothing good ever 00:13:08.570 --> 00:13:11.970 comes from Loki that's why Loki's always been 00:13:11.970 --> 00:13:14.889 tainted with mischief and mayhem and chaos and 00:13:14.889 --> 00:13:17.350 I really love that because of course there's 00:13:17.350 --> 00:13:22.929 lots of elements of cursed items in Norse mythology 00:13:22.929 --> 00:13:24.970 like I only recently this sprinkler and worry 00:13:24.970 --> 00:13:27.549 about the curse or tear thing and that whole 00:13:27.549 --> 00:13:30.470 saga of kind of like killing one generation off 00:13:30.470 --> 00:13:32.250 after another because it's just that's what it's 00:13:32.250 --> 00:13:35.529 destined to do um and I really like that and 00:13:35.529 --> 00:13:38.190 it really suits his character in trying to find 00:13:38.190 --> 00:13:41.470 his own identity and strength and confidence 00:13:41.470 --> 00:13:43.690 in that in that because he thinks he's cursed 00:13:43.690 --> 00:13:46.429 because of all the sad unfortunate circumstances 00:13:46.429 --> 00:13:48.590 that happened around him growing up and hence 00:13:48.590 --> 00:13:51.980 that's why no one really wants him. in the village. 00:13:53.059 --> 00:13:56.240 But then, because he's good with the axe, that 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:59.879 gives him that false kind of confident over -reliance 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:02.340 on it, in a way. And I really liked how you explored 00:14:02.340 --> 00:14:04.980 that narratively and, of course, within Tim's 00:14:04.980 --> 00:14:07.700 wonderful artwork. Yeah, I mean, we had so much 00:14:07.700 --> 00:14:10.620 fun with that character and the axe, too, because 00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:15.240 like you said, Helgi is so desperate to be successful 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.490 and be accepted. that finding something that 00:14:18.490 --> 00:14:20.129 makes him feel more powerful, he's immediately 00:14:20.129 --> 00:14:22.210 going to be drawn to it, which I think leads 00:14:22.210 --> 00:14:25.250 into Loki in my head. He's not going to be the 00:14:25.250 --> 00:14:27.990 guy that just comes out and says, hey, I'm going 00:14:27.990 --> 00:14:29.409 to help you, but I'm going to destroy you at 00:14:29.409 --> 00:14:32.649 the same time. He's one of those guys that whisper 00:14:32.649 --> 00:14:34.009 in your ear and make you feel more confident 00:14:34.009 --> 00:14:35.730 and feel more confident and get you to a point 00:14:35.730 --> 00:14:39.090 to where you feel invincible and then take it 00:14:39.090 --> 00:14:43.049 away from you. Our whole thing with the axe was 00:14:43.049 --> 00:14:45.679 like, hey, how can we use this against Helgi, 00:14:45.779 --> 00:14:48.120 and it's going to continue to make him feel more 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:50.080 and more confident and, and get him closer to 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.179 what he thinks he wants. But hopefully what, 00:14:52.179 --> 00:14:54.139 you know, we pulled off in the story, he learns 00:14:54.139 --> 00:14:55.500 like, Oh, wait a minute, that's not really what 00:14:55.500 --> 00:15:00.500 I wanted all along. Yeah, it's wonderful and 00:15:00.500 --> 00:15:03.519 I really appreciated Stigar's kind of archival 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:06.179 thing, kind of like his, and he said it so many 00:15:06.179 --> 00:15:08.059 times, of course, particularly to Helgi, kind 00:15:08.059 --> 00:15:10.860 of like, you don't decide my fate, I decide it. 00:15:11.259 --> 00:15:13.759 And that kind of like, that self -determinism 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.480 is so strong. It comes through in so many different 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:19.120 sources to do with the Vikings, kind of. And 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:21.240 it's certainly, it's hard to say whether it's 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:23.519 one that we've enhanced or elaborated on. being 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:25.519 kind of like so many centers removed now, because 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:27.740 that's an ideal of the Vikings, that they kind 00:15:27.740 --> 00:15:29.419 of like go to death with a sword in their hand 00:15:29.419 --> 00:15:33.519 or nothing at all kind of thing. But I really 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:38.419 liked that. And of course, that was the other 00:15:38.419 --> 00:15:43.860 thing I was going to ask, actually. What made 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:47.440 you decide? I mean, I know you said Tim came 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.019 through with the design for Katelyn, but was 00:15:50.019 --> 00:15:52.080 there a clear... Was it always clear from the 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.480 start that you were going to have her as a Valkyrie 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:57.720 wannabe? Or were you going to possibly make her 00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:01.879 go down the shield maiden type route? Oh, from 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:03.799 day one, we wanted her to be like, go down the 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:07.179 Valkyrie path. Like, you know, I'm about to become 00:16:07.179 --> 00:16:09.460 a proud warrior. You know, like I've been to 00:16:09.460 --> 00:16:11.080 be the one on earth, you know, kind of thing. 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:14.000 And follow that path all along and make it so 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.480 that, like, hopefully throughout the whole story, 00:16:16.659 --> 00:16:19.470 even the reader is not sure because. you know, 00:16:19.529 --> 00:16:21.590 Helgi and Steiger definitely aren't sure that 00:16:21.590 --> 00:16:24.590 she's saying, you know, your Valkyrie, like, 00:16:24.649 --> 00:16:27.169 you know, okay, you know, this touching on for 00:16:27.169 --> 00:16:29.610 us, it was like touching on religion as a whole. 00:16:29.669 --> 00:16:32.370 You know, it's like, even in the in unseen things, 00:16:32.450 --> 00:16:34.870 and like, what is your religion based on? And 00:16:34.870 --> 00:16:37.909 then that faith in Katelyn to us was like, the 00:16:37.909 --> 00:16:41.549 ultimate person of faith. She's like, she knows 00:16:41.549 --> 00:16:44.889 that this is all true. You can kind of tell Helgi 00:16:44.889 --> 00:16:49.049 and Steiger like, They do have their faith. It's 00:16:49.049 --> 00:16:51.090 not necessarily like, you know, there's there's 00:16:51.090 --> 00:16:52.409 moments where you're like, hey, I'm not sure 00:16:52.409 --> 00:16:55.830 I believe all of this. You know, like, I'm not 00:16:55.830 --> 00:16:57.570 sure I believe in all of the stuff that I hear, 00:16:57.570 --> 00:16:59.029 you know, because it's, you know, as children, 00:16:59.110 --> 00:17:02.009 we hear these tales, you know, like, I don't 00:17:02.009 --> 00:17:05.410 know if an invisible person can do that. You 00:17:05.410 --> 00:17:07.190 know, that's what we kind of really wanted to 00:17:07.190 --> 00:17:11.819 lean into with her. But that that brings me to 00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:14.359 be kind of like those first few lines on those 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:16.500 first few pages about hell You cannot say kind 00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:19.579 of like my father told me tales of this I'm not 00:17:19.579 --> 00:17:21.559 happening kind of like okay stinger that I put 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:23.680 a dead giant in my throne room Can you please 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:25.980 tell me are they all true? And I'm like, wow, 00:17:26.140 --> 00:17:28.940 that is such a brilliantly hook a brilliant hook 00:17:28.940 --> 00:17:31.480 to bring the reader in and you do hit the story 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:35.339 running. There's no great narrative build up 00:17:35.339 --> 00:17:38.140 or even background set up for these characters, 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:41.569 but we kind of like they they're so well defined 00:17:41.569 --> 00:17:44.589 that we don't really need to know any great detail 00:17:44.589 --> 00:17:46.990 you get the odd bits from them all in conversation 00:17:46.990 --> 00:17:49.609 with each other and that's enough to still help 00:17:49.609 --> 00:17:52.589 them feel fully embodied so to speak even though 00:17:52.589 --> 00:17:54.670 I personally would love to see kind of like how 00:17:54.670 --> 00:17:57.349 Kaylin first decided to declare herself as a 00:17:57.349 --> 00:17:59.710 Valkyrie wannabe and what happened with Stigga 00:17:59.710 --> 00:18:02.230 and his father and of course ideally how that 00:18:02.230 --> 00:18:04.049 giant came to be in the village and how Helgi 00:18:04.049 --> 00:18:08.920 killed him of course. Well, that's fair because 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:10.900 I remember when I was we were talking about the 00:18:10.900 --> 00:18:14.240 initial that was supposed to be 40 pages So with 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:16.099 only 40 pages, we were thinking we had to dive 00:18:16.099 --> 00:18:18.779 in quick And so we passed all the typical narrative 00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:20.500 that you normally get in a build -up You know 00:18:20.500 --> 00:18:23.299 in the first act of a story and so we kind of 00:18:23.299 --> 00:18:25.400 had to just go Hey, we're gonna dive deep in 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:28.839 first and then somehow 40 pages turned into 200 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.940 So you're fair and saying that because we were 00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:34.920 just doing 40 like we were convinced we were 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:38.619 only doing 40 and just got carried away Well, 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.880 what you guys have achieved is sensational and 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:45.839 I definitely would, if there was a prologue or 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:49.200 even a sequel to this, I would be all for it. 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:51.440 It would get my money from the word go. Most 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:58.539 Viking things do, to be fair. So, interestingly 00:18:58.539 --> 00:19:02.400 enough, kind of the idea of Odin's eye being 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.420 involved is something I've never actually come 00:19:04.420 --> 00:19:06.380 across before, because of course, most people 00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:09.099 who have this basic understanding of how I didn't 00:19:09.099 --> 00:19:12.440 know that you gave up an eye for wisdom. Traditionally 00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:14.400 or canonically it's just sat in the bottom of 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:16.460 a well somewhere and doesn't do anything but 00:19:16.460 --> 00:19:19.240 I love how somehow it's come out of that well 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:21.740 and passed around hands like a cursed object 00:19:21.740 --> 00:19:24.819 as it does and of course it tells Helgi that 00:19:24.819 --> 00:19:26.700 if you don't return me to my rightful owner then 00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:28.700 I will curse you with the death of blisters and 00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:33.259 boils and decay and all sorts. did make me think 00:19:33.259 --> 00:19:35.400 back to of course the ring from Lord of the Rings 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:37.680 and I think that's what one of the reviewers 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:40.720 on the back of the book ComicCon .com says it's 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:42.619 one part Lord of the Rings and another part Netflix 00:19:42.619 --> 00:19:44.779 is Norseman which I think is a really out really 00:19:44.779 --> 00:19:47.359 out description and which it has got some lovely 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:50.380 humor to it as well as kind of like the kind 00:19:50.380 --> 00:19:54.420 of deeper exploration of just being a human in 00:19:54.420 --> 00:19:57.400 this fantastical world which is sensational. 00:19:58.959 --> 00:20:01.500 But interestingly that you guys kind of then 00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:03.220 must have discussed and decided that it wasn't 00:20:03.220 --> 00:20:04.920 going to go back to Mimi as well as such but 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:06.980 go back to Mimi who is alive and well albeit 00:20:06.980 --> 00:20:11.079 King of the Frost Giants in this universe. Yeah 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:13.240 I mean for us you know when we started uh oh 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:15.019 we're gonna get a visitor I've got Abraham my 00:20:15.019 --> 00:20:19.160 cat's gonna come join us. Cats are always welcome! 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:23.259 As long as he doesn't press the stop recording 00:20:23.259 --> 00:20:27.430 button. Yeah, I mean, for us, like, what was 00:20:27.430 --> 00:20:28.730 cool is when we started thinking about, like, 00:20:28.769 --> 00:20:30.549 what's going to be the driving force behind this? 00:20:30.670 --> 00:20:31.910 And we wanted, you know, obviously got to come 00:20:31.910 --> 00:20:35.349 up with something to keep, keep the characters 00:20:35.349 --> 00:20:37.509 moving forward. And, you know, we just kind of 00:20:37.509 --> 00:20:39.089 bumped around on the eye of Odin. I was like, 00:20:39.190 --> 00:20:41.049 Hey, imagine if that was real. And like, what 00:20:41.049 --> 00:20:44.210 would I, somebody like Odin do to it? To make 00:20:44.210 --> 00:20:46.170 sure that, like, because to us, I mean, having 00:20:46.170 --> 00:20:49.450 Odin's eye would be like a weapon, like an unimaginably 00:20:49.450 --> 00:20:53.089 magical, unstoppable weapon. And so we came up 00:20:53.089 --> 00:20:54.650 with that kind of idea and it's like, wait a 00:20:54.650 --> 00:20:56.410 minute, Ode wouldn't let anybody just have it. 00:20:56.470 --> 00:20:58.390 So like he gave it to somebody and then he's 00:20:58.390 --> 00:21:00.190 going to curse it so that nobody else can ever 00:21:00.190 --> 00:21:03.049 have it and use it. Interesting. So that was 00:21:03.049 --> 00:21:05.750 our whole, you know, again, our own Norse mythology 00:21:05.750 --> 00:21:08.049 at that point. But, you know, the president was 00:21:08.049 --> 00:21:10.490 like, hey, this would be kind of a fun, you know, 00:21:10.690 --> 00:21:13.690 translation of what we've seen before. And, you 00:21:13.690 --> 00:21:15.609 know, we loved playing with that eye and having 00:21:15.609 --> 00:21:18.190 to like actually move around in the liquid. a 00:21:18.190 --> 00:21:20.789 look at stuff and yeah so that that's kind of 00:21:20.789 --> 00:21:23.509 it was just the driving mechanism for our whole 00:21:23.509 --> 00:21:27.490 story. It works really really well and it's something 00:21:27.490 --> 00:21:31.990 I've always really admired about the Norse mythology 00:21:31.990 --> 00:21:36.250 that because it's not treated as almost like 00:21:36.250 --> 00:21:40.250 a sacred set of stories such as like the Bible 00:21:40.250 --> 00:21:43.829 or in Hinduism or in Buddhism there is that freedom 00:21:43.829 --> 00:21:46.230 to play, that freedom to manipulate, to readjust, 00:21:46.470 --> 00:21:49.910 to reset things and I must say kind of like since 00:21:49.910 --> 00:21:52.970 the 18th century with Wagner of course, people 00:21:52.970 --> 00:21:55.349 have just taken it and just run and the things 00:21:55.349 --> 00:21:58.329 people have come up with it both respects and 00:21:58.329 --> 00:22:02.329 also reflects the time that it was done. And 00:22:02.329 --> 00:22:05.250 I absolutely love what you guys, I just love 00:22:05.250 --> 00:22:10.630 it, I absolutely love it. I was going to say 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.019 Did you ever discuss plans for maybe doing a 00:22:15.019 --> 00:22:17.519 sequel from all the page that you couldn't quite 00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:21.460 fit in or Was there ever an option for that? 00:22:21.740 --> 00:22:23.579 Oh, yeah, I mean with Tim and I obviously there 00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:26.200 was I mean I talked about this to them unfortunately 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:29.000 Tim passed away this year So, um, you know, obviously 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:30.839 I wouldn't touch it without him, you know to 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:32.740 me It's you know, and I know that might make 00:22:32.740 --> 00:22:34.660 some people sad it kind of makes me sad too But 00:22:34.660 --> 00:22:37.500 it wouldn't be right for me to continue to do 00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:39.519 something with this without Tim. You know, it's 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:41.319 just, it wouldn't be right. It wouldn't feel 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:43.859 right for me anyway. And so yeah, we had talked 00:22:43.859 --> 00:22:45.680 about like, oh, what else could we do if we kept 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.200 going? You know, and it, cause there's just so 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:50.200 much more, you know, it kind of left them a cliffhanger 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:53.460 of like, you know, and you kind of learn some 00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:55.200 new stuff and it's like, yeah, we could definitely 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.839 do some more. And so there was definitely plans 00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.180 of possibly doing another sequel, but unfortunately 00:23:00.180 --> 00:23:03.480 Tim just got sick and we had to put that on the 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.559 side. Yeah. I was very, very sad to learn Tim 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:09.440 had passed, because if I could have had him on 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:12.859 as well, it would have made this twice as fun. 00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:15.480 It really would have. And it's a shame, but I'll 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:17.720 never get to tell him personally how much his 00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:23.420 art is amazing. But I hope, and I know from the 00:23:23.420 --> 00:23:25.859 way you talk about it, he enjoyed doing that. 00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:28.740 And if he enjoyed doing this, then that's all 00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:32.089 that really matters really. Oh yeah, Tim. loved 00:23:32.089 --> 00:23:34.329 nothing more than drawing, and loved nothing 00:23:34.329 --> 00:23:36.589 more than comics. He had a really fun picture 00:23:36.589 --> 00:23:40.390 that he showed me. He started reading comics 00:23:40.390 --> 00:23:43.950 at age 10, and he bumped into Spawn and Youngblood, 00:23:44.109 --> 00:23:47.369 the Image Classic stuff. And he went out and 00:23:47.369 --> 00:23:50.890 bought a drawing desk that week and said, someday 00:23:50.890 --> 00:23:53.109 I'm going to draw comics and work for Image. 00:23:53.609 --> 00:23:56.130 And we kind of didn't talk about how this all 00:23:56.130 --> 00:23:57.950 came about as far as the Image side of things. 00:23:58.029 --> 00:24:00.930 But Tim's ultimate dream was always to do a book 00:24:00.930 --> 00:24:05.269 for Image. And so that happened. And so luckily, 00:24:05.369 --> 00:24:07.690 before Tim passed, he actually had got a chance 00:24:07.690 --> 00:24:10.049 to make his dream come true. It's not always 00:24:10.049 --> 00:24:12.569 a special place in my heart, too, that Tim just 00:24:12.569 --> 00:24:15.549 wanted to draw comics and nothing more than drawing 00:24:15.549 --> 00:24:17.769 for Image. And somehow he managed to make that 00:24:17.769 --> 00:24:21.430 happen. So it's pretty exciting. I mean, you 00:24:21.430 --> 00:24:23.569 got time for me to tell you that story? Yes, 00:24:23.750 --> 00:24:26.250 please do. Please do. Tim and I had been working 00:24:26.250 --> 00:24:28.589 on this book, and we're doing it on our free 00:24:28.589 --> 00:24:29.990 time. So we've been working on this book probably 00:24:29.990 --> 00:24:32.650 for a year, maybe two. And he ended up moving 00:24:32.650 --> 00:24:35.789 to Minnesota. And so we talk online and stuff 00:24:35.789 --> 00:24:36.930 like this. And he goes, hey, I want to go to 00:24:36.930 --> 00:24:40.890 this tiny little convention in Minnesota. And 00:24:40.890 --> 00:24:44.630 then he calls me, and he's like, hey, I went 00:24:44.630 --> 00:24:46.470 to this little convention. And Eric Stevenson, 00:24:46.710 --> 00:24:48.750 the president of Image Comics, was there. And 00:24:48.750 --> 00:24:51.740 I showed him the painting. And I was like, oh, 00:24:51.740 --> 00:24:53.660 OK. He goes, I hope you don't mind me just showing 00:24:53.660 --> 00:24:55.500 it as part of my portfolio. And I was like, of 00:24:55.500 --> 00:24:58.640 course not. Well, then the very next day, I get 00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:01.380 an email from Eric, because I've been working 00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:04.680 with the image since 2014. And he goes, hey, 00:25:04.779 --> 00:25:06.299 how come you haven't told me about this Viking 00:25:06.299 --> 00:25:10.339 book? And I was like, I didn't know. There was 00:25:10.339 --> 00:25:13.619 no plan. I hadn't even thought about it. And 00:25:13.619 --> 00:25:15.859 so Eric called me, and he's like, hey, dude, 00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:18.490 I want this book. And so it was just like this 00:25:18.490 --> 00:25:20.750 random, like Tim showing up to this tiny little 00:25:20.750 --> 00:25:25.309 convention in Minnesota and showing his pages 00:25:25.309 --> 00:25:27.210 to Eric and Eric calling me the next day going, 00:25:27.250 --> 00:25:29.829 hey, I need this book. And that's how Tim managed 00:25:29.829 --> 00:25:33.009 to somehow, through blind luck, get to do his 00:25:33.009 --> 00:25:39.410 first image book. Well, it sounds like fate, 00:25:39.569 --> 00:25:41.849 the norms, the good vibes of the universe were 00:25:41.849 --> 00:25:44.680 leading him. step by step to the right people 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:46.900 at the right time. First meeting you, finding 00:25:46.900 --> 00:25:49.660 that connection, and then of course finding Eric 00:25:49.660 --> 00:25:52.960 at that comic con. Oh wow, I'm so pleased he 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:57.059 did get to achieve this, as untimely as his parting 00:25:57.059 --> 00:26:01.480 was. Because kind of like having achieved my 00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:03.940 dream only last year of talking about Valkyries 00:26:03.940 --> 00:26:05.940 in Norway, of all places, that I never thought 00:26:05.940 --> 00:26:10.579 I'd ever get to set foot on. It's immensely fulfilling. 00:26:10.829 --> 00:26:13.109 once you have that moment, no matter how big 00:26:13.109 --> 00:26:19.190 or small or how niche it is. And yeah, I have 00:26:19.190 --> 00:26:21.289 to agree, as sad as it is that there won't be 00:26:21.289 --> 00:26:24.269 more of this universe, I totally respect that 00:26:24.269 --> 00:26:31.509 it will then forever be Tim's. Yeah, it's stunning. 00:26:34.329 --> 00:26:36.910 And hold your folk, they're always staring at 00:26:36.910 --> 00:26:38.670 me from the cover because there's so many of 00:26:38.670 --> 00:26:41.920 them. The Holdred folk are like little imps. 00:26:42.819 --> 00:26:44.819 They're vicious looking little imps. And I love 00:26:44.819 --> 00:26:46.720 the strange language that they're all muttering 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:49.220 as they're all taking bits and pieces when they 00:26:49.220 --> 00:26:51.359 find these three protagonists deep in the murky 00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:54.640 woods trying to get through. Especially, of course, 00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:57.400 when Caitlin says kind of like, oh, yeah, kind 00:26:57.400 --> 00:26:59.519 of like, don't trust them. They're vicious. They're 00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:01.380 mean. And they only just see one. And then the 00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:03.900 whole mass of them appears on the page. I thought 00:27:03.900 --> 00:27:06.779 that is a masterstroke of comic and artistry 00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:09.900 genus. It was wonderful, that one. Thanks. I 00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:12.279 mean that with those guys like I struggled a 00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:14.680 little bit because I kind of had them in my head 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:16.119 from the very beginning when we started doing 00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:20.059 the story and there's no you know Classical Holder 00:27:20.059 --> 00:27:22.460 folk in Norse mythology. So like we were struggling 00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:24.980 a little bit But then was like, you know, we 00:27:24.980 --> 00:27:26.400 can make up our own stuff from time to time. 00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:29.339 Let's do it He said like he draws one on one 00:27:29.339 --> 00:27:31.500 page and then I can't imagine how many he drew 00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:35.420 on the next page. There's like 50 plus Page and 00:27:35.420 --> 00:27:37.440 I'm like dude, like you don't have to draw this 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:40.460 many He's like, oh no, like this book has to 00:27:40.460 --> 00:27:42.680 be perfect. And so like the fact that he spent 00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:45.960 days drawing that page, you know, each little 00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:48.339 holder folk that you see in there, you know, 00:27:48.460 --> 00:27:50.180 it's amazing that he went to that extent. But 00:27:50.180 --> 00:27:51.799 we had so much fun with those little characters 00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:53.880 and the fact that they were just like, there's 00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:55.680 like a force of nature, right? They'd come through, 00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:58.500 they'd take stuff and they leave. And as long 00:27:58.500 --> 00:28:02.400 as you mess with that, you're fine. But they 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:04.240 also, if they bite you, you know, like they have 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:08.009 the venom of um you know a world serpent you 00:28:08.009 --> 00:28:11.569 know just stay still let them take your funny 00:28:11.569 --> 00:28:13.450 stuff and they'll leave you alone and so we had 00:28:13.450 --> 00:28:15.349 so much fun with those you know that that was 00:28:15.349 --> 00:28:20.289 one of my favorite parts of the book so how long 00:28:20.289 --> 00:28:22.089 overall did it take you both you had to be working 00:28:22.089 --> 00:28:24.190 on it for like one and a half to two years so 00:28:24.190 --> 00:28:26.869 is that the call that has come out now or is 00:28:26.869 --> 00:28:29.490 that on the whole math that you then had to shrink 00:28:29.490 --> 00:28:32.789 down a bit oh no i mean for us um we spent probably 00:28:32.789 --> 00:28:35.960 about four years doing the book And so, you know, 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:37.279 obviously it's easier for me because I'm the 00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:39.099 writer. So I could write a couple of pages to 00:28:39.099 --> 00:28:41.019 Tim and then he'd run off and, you know, you 00:28:41.019 --> 00:28:43.019 know, we're both working full -time at other 00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:46.700 jobs and this on the side. And, you know, so, 00:28:46.700 --> 00:28:48.660 I mean, I was fine with it. I told him that right 00:28:48.660 --> 00:28:50.400 up front. I was like, hey, dude, there's no rush. 00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:52.359 You know, neither one of us are getting paid 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:55.279 to do this. When we get done, we get done. And 00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:56.759 so, yeah, it took about four years and I was 00:28:56.759 --> 00:28:58.400 fine with that. Like I said, I was completely 00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:00.960 happy to give Tim the time he needed to do as 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.000 you've seen the pages. these incredible pages 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.059 and sometimes where you have 50 plus holder folk 00:29:07.059 --> 00:29:09.740 on a single panel you know and you're like this 00:29:09.740 --> 00:29:12.299 is unbelievable like so i was more than happy 00:29:12.299 --> 00:29:15.660 to give them him all the time he needed well 00:29:15.660 --> 00:29:19.059 it really shows it i mean the length of detail 00:29:19.059 --> 00:29:23.720 just kind of like it's it's just astonishing 00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:30.259 it absolutely and wonderfully is um Were there 00:29:30.259 --> 00:29:32.920 any other protagonists that you considered when 00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:34.839 you were developing this narrative, or did you 00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:37.319 always have in mind it would be kind of like 00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:39.579 an old guy, young guy, and then at least a woman 00:29:39.579 --> 00:29:42.680 of some description type or other? I mean, pretty 00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:44.599 much it had always been, I mean, we never went 00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:46.920 past three. I think it kind of just fit, you 00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:48.720 know, when we got, like, we initially came up 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:51.799 with Helgi, and then he, it was Steiger, and 00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:53.220 then we came up with Caitlin, and I was like, 00:29:53.220 --> 00:29:56.339 you know, I think this is the perfect trio to 00:29:56.339 --> 00:29:58.079 kind of carry out the story. We don't need more. 00:29:58.549 --> 00:30:00.089 And you know, I mean, obviously we could have 00:30:00.089 --> 00:30:01.950 put a bigger band together, but again, at the 00:30:01.950 --> 00:30:04.349 same time, as I said before, we're thinking 40 00:30:04.349 --> 00:30:06.529 pages, so we wouldn't have to early dive into 00:30:06.529 --> 00:30:09.130 all the characters. And so luckily three was 00:30:09.130 --> 00:30:10.869 exactly what we needed, and I think it ended 00:30:10.869 --> 00:30:16.569 up being perfect. So since kind of like working 00:30:16.569 --> 00:30:19.210 on this, did you develop more of a taste or a 00:30:19.210 --> 00:30:21.670 curiosity for North mythology and Viking -y stuff, 00:30:21.670 --> 00:30:24.009 or was it pretty much just during this window 00:30:24.009 --> 00:30:26.230 working on this book? No, I still read stuff 00:30:26.230 --> 00:30:28.640 from time to time on it, but Reading through 00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:30.859 them was just amazing for me, because I did not 00:30:30.859 --> 00:30:34.900 realize the impact and the reach that Norse mythology 00:30:34.900 --> 00:30:37.279 had had across the world. And you start talking 00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:38.779 about this stuff, and you go, you know, we've 00:30:38.779 --> 00:30:40.180 mentioned it before, like, you're like, Oh, wait 00:30:40.180 --> 00:30:42.700 a minute, Lord of the Rings is Norse mythology. 00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:45.759 And so, like, you know, people think of it as, 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:47.420 you know, almost like a European thing. But then 00:30:47.420 --> 00:30:50.000 we start digging deeper into, like, Norse mythology 00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:51.839 and stuff. And you hit that, and you see the 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.460 influences in Greek and Roman mythology. And, 00:30:55.460 --> 00:30:57.180 you know, we start talking about the days of 00:30:57.180 --> 00:30:59.119 the week. And you're like, oh, wait a minute. 00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:01.099 Most days of the week, you're named after Norse 00:31:01.099 --> 00:31:03.680 gods. And you're like, I don't understand the 00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:07.460 huge impact I think that Vikings and Norse culture 00:31:07.460 --> 00:31:10.019 had on the entire world until you start diving 00:31:10.019 --> 00:31:12.000 into it and going, oh, wait a minute. There's 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.119 even some tales from Norse mythology that leak 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:18.400 their way into the Bible. And you're just like, 00:31:18.460 --> 00:31:22.500 oh, wow. I did not realize the reach this tiny 00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:25.819 section of the world had on the entire world 00:31:25.819 --> 00:31:28.900 and still does. And so you love reading about, 00:31:29.180 --> 00:31:31.079 honestly, all the mythologies are, I love them 00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:32.319 because they're all, you know, some of them are 00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:35.980 so strange. Especially these ones and African 00:31:35.980 --> 00:31:38.259 ones. And you're like, oh, I'd never heard of 00:31:38.259 --> 00:31:42.079 any of this. And this is crazy. You know, I think 00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:44.819 being, obviously being European, more European 00:31:44.819 --> 00:31:46.839 influence, you know, with Europe and in the U 00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:49.319 .S., we get a little bit of Greek mythology. 00:31:49.420 --> 00:31:51.380 So we're like, oh, an eight legged horse, who 00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:53.799 cares? We've seen it before. You're like, wait 00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:57.759 a minute. Doesn't make any sense. So I love it. 00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:00.119 I love it all and it's so fascinating. It's fun 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:03.240 to read You know, I know why they made Thor the 00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:04.900 main character, but it's funny to read Norse 00:32:04.900 --> 00:32:08.000 mythology The Thor and then we get you know, 00:32:08.059 --> 00:32:10.440 like the the Marvel Universe when we're yes, 00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:16.980 not a complete bumbling Man of nothing, but I 00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:22.240 love the fact that the son of Odin is basically 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:26.559 complete moron mythology and you love him for 00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:29.140 it because he's so dumb you root for him and 00:32:29.140 --> 00:32:31.039 I think that's what's fantastic about that character 00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:33.259 in the Norse mythology but like I said I love 00:32:33.259 --> 00:32:35.759 it all I love diving into it and it's so fun 00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:38.700 and wonderful and weird you know based on you 00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:41.000 know what I've been experienced to previously 00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:44.059 and like I said he talking with Tim like you 00:32:44.059 --> 00:32:45.539 know like they're a little Christmas elf that 00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:48.299 lives in the barn and brings him a gift Santa 00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:50.380 Claus you know those kind of things and how his 00:32:50.380 --> 00:32:52.759 dad and Tim did this until he passed as well 00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:55.829 like They dressed up as the elf on Christmas 00:32:55.829 --> 00:32:58.609 Eve and they come in and that's how they celebrated 00:32:58.609 --> 00:33:02.390 Christmas. And I was like, wait, what? I'm very 00:33:02.390 --> 00:33:05.069 classic, like American trained, like hey Santa 00:33:05.069 --> 00:33:07.869 Claus, tonight, blah, blah, blah. To see them 00:33:07.869 --> 00:33:13.109 do that was amazing. That's really nice to hear 00:33:13.109 --> 00:33:15.289 because it's always interesting because it's 00:33:15.289 --> 00:33:18.730 a question that I got asked myself at my little 00:33:18.730 --> 00:33:22.539 academic debut last year. as much as I've loved 00:33:22.539 --> 00:33:25.259 reading all things Norse, especially in fantasy 00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:26.799 fiction, but I'm definitely dying more and more 00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:29.220 into comics, wherever I can find them, like there's 00:33:29.220 --> 00:33:32.779 another comic coming out in October, no, we're 00:33:32.779 --> 00:33:35.700 already in October, November, November called 00:33:35.700 --> 00:33:38.700 Viking Moon, and it's basically Vikings versus 00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:41.480 werewolves in the newly discovered Americas, 00:33:41.900 --> 00:33:44.579 which again is a crazy idea, but somehow it works 00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:49.569 narratively, because hey, why not? It's kind 00:33:49.569 --> 00:33:52.450 of like, has anyone ever found themselves going 00:33:52.450 --> 00:33:54.369 back to try to find out more about the original 00:33:54.369 --> 00:33:57.289 sources that inspired these mod interpretations, 00:33:57.789 --> 00:33:59.849 whether they're interpretations or retellings 00:33:59.849 --> 00:34:02.470 or complete fictional fabrications with North 00:34:02.470 --> 00:34:04.789 elements. And it's nice to hear that you've found 00:34:04.789 --> 00:34:08.210 equal fun and enjoyment in them as much as I 00:34:08.210 --> 00:34:12.090 have. Well, I mean, Tim and his mom would bring 00:34:12.090 --> 00:34:15.110 me books that we can't get in America. that were 00:34:15.110 --> 00:34:17.289 Norse mythology. And so it was like a totally 00:34:17.289 --> 00:34:20.349 different take, right? Because it's from those 00:34:20.349 --> 00:34:24.130 people in that area versus, you know, the Americanized 00:34:24.130 --> 00:34:26.389 version that, you know, oh, well, we'll accept 00:34:26.389 --> 00:34:29.670 that here because this is the only text we're 00:34:29.670 --> 00:34:31.190 going to use for Viking mythology. And they had 00:34:31.190 --> 00:34:33.869 tons of books. And so that was, I mean, that 00:34:33.869 --> 00:34:35.989 helped me so much to kind of get the feel for 00:34:35.989 --> 00:34:37.869 everything in the book itself, because it was 00:34:37.869 --> 00:34:39.130 like, oh, wait a minute, we need to put this 00:34:39.130 --> 00:34:41.329 in there, you know, because like it was just 00:34:41.530 --> 00:34:44.389 but like I said it's an amazing I'm getting lost 00:34:44.389 --> 00:34:47.269 in thought you know just because you know my 00:34:47.269 --> 00:34:48.989 my head is just stewing and all the wonderful 00:34:48.989 --> 00:34:51.289 things that I learned and how amazing it was 00:34:51.289 --> 00:34:53.170 and how magical it was and I was like I wish 00:34:53.170 --> 00:34:55.050 I'd have learned this stuff when I was a kid 00:34:55.050 --> 00:34:58.530 I mean it is interesting point because of course 00:34:58.530 --> 00:35:01.670 in America you have leaf ericson day I assume 00:35:01.670 --> 00:35:03.969 kind of course courses you discovered the Americas 00:35:03.969 --> 00:35:07.170 before Columbus did Of course, in the UK, we're 00:35:07.170 --> 00:35:10.170 kind of riddled with Viking references historically 00:35:10.170 --> 00:35:12.929 because they invaded us so many times and changed 00:35:12.929 --> 00:35:15.190 our culture so much. But then we've got so many 00:35:15.190 --> 00:35:17.650 layers of other invasions and other peoples. 00:35:17.909 --> 00:35:21.250 It's all kind of a mix. But I've never really, 00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:25.590 I don't have many friends that are properly, 00:35:25.710 --> 00:35:28.309 fully kind of like Norwegian or Danish or even 00:35:28.309 --> 00:35:30.349 Swedish. So I've never really encountered anyone 00:35:30.349 --> 00:35:33.690 to see how the actual like home nation of the 00:35:33.690 --> 00:35:36.849 Vikings see the Vikings, because we learn about 00:35:36.849 --> 00:35:38.610 English history, you learn about American history, 00:35:38.750 --> 00:35:41.030 and I don't know if they learn that much more 00:35:41.030 --> 00:35:43.550 about their own complicated history in the Viking 00:35:43.550 --> 00:35:46.130 Age, or just focus on how the nations evolved 00:35:46.130 --> 00:35:47.789 into the nations they are today. Because of course, 00:35:48.190 --> 00:35:50.730 they were as splintered as England was back in 00:35:50.730 --> 00:35:52.530 the Viking Age. There wasn't an England in the 00:35:52.530 --> 00:35:57.750 Viking Age at all for a long time. I mean, you're 00:35:57.750 --> 00:36:00.110 right. It's great to dive into that kind of stuff. 00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:05.000 Like Michelle Madsen, the colorist of the book, 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:09.519 she's also first generation. Oh really? Yeah, 00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:11.780 so we'd get on conference calls and they would 00:36:11.780 --> 00:36:16.159 talk, which I just referred to as Viking. I didn't 00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:19.380 know a single word of it. We'd talk for a couple 00:36:19.380 --> 00:36:24.480 of minutes in Norse, and it was just amazing. 00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:26.719 And then they'd start telling you tales of stuff 00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:31.960 like, I think we're... they passed it down more, 00:36:32.300 --> 00:36:34.760 like, through, through families. Like, they passed 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:36.860 their history down, I think, more so than, say, 00:36:36.860 --> 00:36:39.679 we do, or we learned it in school. They would, 00:36:39.739 --> 00:36:41.519 you know, this is the things we, they, they learned, 00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:42.960 and they just kind of took it for granted, you 00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:45.079 know, as, as far as like, Oh, we thought everybody 00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:46.880 knew this. And I was like, Nobody knows this. 00:36:47.699 --> 00:36:49.579 It's like, I've never heard of any of this stuff. 00:36:49.579 --> 00:36:51.599 This is fantastic. Because, you know, I'm one 00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:53.000 of those people that just loves to learn new 00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:55.860 stuff. So getting to tell me tales of stuff of 00:36:55.860 --> 00:36:57.320 like, you know, Oh, well, my parents did this, 00:36:57.320 --> 00:36:58.679 and this is how they were raised. And you're 00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:02.590 like, That's insane. So it was really cool, like 00:37:02.590 --> 00:37:04.510 I said, it was fun hanging out with both of them 00:37:04.510 --> 00:37:08.349 doing this book. Oh, that's really nice that 00:37:08.349 --> 00:37:11.210 there's such like that is that strong heritage 00:37:11.210 --> 00:37:14.309 influence and connection coming all the way through. 00:37:15.329 --> 00:37:18.949 And I do implore anyone who's listening or watching 00:37:18.949 --> 00:37:21.909 to find Beware the Eye of Odin, whether it's 00:37:21.909 --> 00:37:24.750 a single issue or the combined paperback form, 00:37:24.909 --> 00:37:27.010 go to your local comic book shop, check out your 00:37:27.010 --> 00:37:29.389 library, see if it's on Amazon. download it, 00:37:29.570 --> 00:37:31.809 borrow it, read it, it is absolutely phenomenal. 00:37:32.369 --> 00:37:34.210 I absolutely love it and there's so much more 00:37:34.210 --> 00:37:35.909 I could talk about but I'm trying not to spoil 00:37:35.909 --> 00:37:40.010 it for everyone. Excuse me, had my cough people. 00:37:40.489 --> 00:37:42.389 That's another reason why things have been difficult 00:37:42.389 --> 00:37:47.000 for the past week or two but oh yes it's... It's 00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:49.340 been such a pleasure speaking to you about this. 00:37:50.500 --> 00:37:52.760 Are there any other projects that you might be 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:54.480 working on that you might like to share with 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:57.059 viewers and listeners today? As I'm sure you 00:37:57.059 --> 00:37:59.119 know, my publishers don't like me to talk about 00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:02.340 anything until they announce it, so I'll be a 00:38:02.340 --> 00:38:07.079 good person to keep my jobs. So I can't really 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:09.219 talk. Obviously, I've got, I mean, if anybody's 00:38:09.219 --> 00:38:11.800 into cyberpunk, but I've got a cyberpunk 2077. 00:38:12.539 --> 00:38:14.719 mini -series coming out through Dark Horse in 00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:18.260 January. Very good. We'll talk about that, yeah. 00:38:19.420 --> 00:38:21.239 The rest of the guys and I, we just keep working 00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:22.880 on books and there'll be more books out next 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:27.239 year. Wonderful, I'm so glad that you've got 00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:29.300 constant projects coming through and hopefully 00:38:29.300 --> 00:38:31.780 you're enjoying all of them as much as you enjoyed 00:38:31.780 --> 00:38:36.420 this one. Yep. Thank you so much for joining 00:38:36.420 --> 00:38:39.139 me in Valhalla today Doug. It's been a real pleasure 00:38:39.139 --> 00:38:41.940 and I'm sure I will be emailing you again with 00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:43.820 any more questions and I'm just trying getting 00:38:43.820 --> 00:38:46.099 observations about this wonderful book. Thank 00:38:46.099 --> 00:38:47.860 you. The pleasure has been all mine. Thank you 00:38:47.860 --> 00:38:50.019 for reaching out and doing this and always feel 00:38:50.019 --> 00:38:53.000 free to reach out with more questions. Thank 00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:55.139 you. I will do. Quite often as I say to most 00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:57.360 people in my normal life who meet me, very often 00:38:57.360 --> 00:38:59.360 you do escape. You don't often escape once you've 00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:01.940 met me. Once I've got your email address or your 00:39:01.940 --> 00:39:04.519 WhatsApp number I'm on you. especially if it's 00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:07.659 about Vikings or Valkyries, are yes, definitely, 00:39:07.659 --> 00:39:11.699 definitely interested. And of course, thank you 00:39:11.699 --> 00:39:15.639 to your cat for her wonderful showcase. Every 00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:19.440 podcast he shows up for. So he's my biggest podcast 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:40.920 fan. Thank you so much. My pleasure. This episode 00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:43.960 of Valhalla Conversations is dedicated to comic 00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:47.960 artist Tim Odland, who sadly passed away this 00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:53.539 summer of 2025. Tim's lifelong dream was to illustrate 00:39:53.539 --> 00:39:57.579 a comic published by Image Comics. Beware the 00:39:57.579 --> 00:40:03.320 Eye of Odin is that comic, that dream. I will 00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:06.599 treasure it always in Tim's memory for an example 00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:10.820 of his amazing talent. Thank you for your dream, 00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:47.389 Tim. Rest in peace. Thank you very much for listening 00:40:47.389 --> 00:40:50.829 to this episode. I hope you enjoyed the discussions 00:40:50.829 --> 00:40:54.090 between my special guests and myself. Please 00:40:54.090 --> 00:40:56.809 do check out the episode blurb for links to their 00:40:56.809 --> 00:40:59.710 works and websites. If you liked this episode, 00:40:59.769 --> 00:41:02.489 let me know by giving it a thumbs up. Let me 00:41:02.489 --> 00:41:04.650 know if you learned something new in the comments. 00:41:05.070 --> 00:41:08.329 And of course, click subscribe to Valhalla Conversations 00:41:08.329 --> 00:41:11.670 wherever you are listening or watching. This 00:41:11.670 --> 00:41:14.190 podcast can be watched on YouTube and YouTube 00:41:14.190 --> 00:41:17.829 Music. and it can also be listened to on Spotify, 00:41:18.349 --> 00:41:22.630 Amazon Music, Podcast Intex and on RSS .com. 00:41:23.170 --> 00:41:25.449 We hope you can join us in Valhalla again soon 00:41:25.449 --> 00:41:26.969 for more conversations.