WEBVTT 00:00:18.250 --> 00:00:21.530 Conversations podcast. I'm your host Becky Hill, 00:00:22.010 --> 00:00:24.710 otherwise known as Soul Chaser Becky and I am 00:00:24.710 --> 00:00:27.550 a proud Viking geek. I fell in love with the 00:00:27.550 --> 00:00:29.750 history, culture and mythology of the Viking 00:00:29.750 --> 00:00:32.310 Age and I have been on an endless quest for more 00:00:32.310 --> 00:00:36.450 ever since. Join me as I discuss all things North 00:00:36.450 --> 00:00:38.609 with those who have been inspired by Viking Age 00:00:38.609 --> 00:00:40.950 history and North mythology in their creative 00:00:40.950 --> 00:00:43.929 works or those who have studied the sagas and 00:00:43.929 --> 00:00:47.039 archaeology and review. how such subjects are 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:50.200 being presented to modern audiences today. If 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:52.979 you like Viking stuff, you are welcome in my 00:00:52.979 --> 00:00:56.079 Valhalla and I hope you stay for the conversation. 00:01:11.379 --> 00:01:14.659 Welcome everyone to Valhalla Conversations. podcasts 00:01:14.659 --> 00:01:17.219 and in this geeky hall of Viking -ness I get 00:01:17.219 --> 00:01:20.180 to talk to amazing academics, researchers, historians, 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:22.420 reenactors and of course creatives which there 00:01:22.420 --> 00:01:25.180 are many that use Vikings both historical and 00:01:25.180 --> 00:01:28.340 mythological in their creative works in all sorts 00:01:28.340 --> 00:01:31.359 of mediums and this month's episode I am delighted 00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:35.459 to have all the way from LA Zach Kaplan, a comic 00:01:35.459 --> 00:01:38.280 writer of some pedigree in fame he's got titles 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:40.459 published with Dark Horse, with Vault Comics, 00:01:40.620 --> 00:01:43.959 with DC But I am here to talk about his latest 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:47.500 best -selling series app, and it's a stunning 00:01:47.500 --> 00:01:49.219 cover. It's this one, and it will be popping 00:01:49.219 --> 00:01:50.920 up on the screen for viewers to get a closer 00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:53.120 look because my virtual screen keeps securing 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:56.819 its beauty. But it is Kill All Immortals. And 00:01:56.819 --> 00:01:58.980 for those of us who, like me, have binged recently 00:01:58.980 --> 00:02:01.780 The Old Guard on Netflix, check this one out 00:02:01.780 --> 00:02:04.079 because it's just that top -notch level better. 00:02:04.340 --> 00:02:06.420 If only because it's got Vikings in, but that's 00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:10.789 unbiased. So if you've not heard Kill All Immortal 00:02:10.789 --> 00:02:12.870 States and Gentlemen, I'm just going to read 00:02:12.870 --> 00:02:15.229 to you the blurb of this wonderful combined edition. 00:02:15.710 --> 00:02:18.629 It says, a thousand years ago, a barbaric Viking 00:02:18.629 --> 00:02:21.930 family discovered a mysterious source of immortality. 00:02:22.210 --> 00:02:25.189 Now in our modern world, they are an enigmatic 00:02:25.189 --> 00:02:27.509 and ruthless billionaire family with a powerful 00:02:27.509 --> 00:02:30.849 banking empire. But when the only daughter, Frey 00:02:30.849 --> 00:02:34.150 Asphalt, seeks to finally be free from her family's 00:02:34.150 --> 00:02:36.710 influence, she must discover the truth about 00:02:36.710 --> 00:02:39.550 their supernatural secrets and confront her very 00:02:39.550 --> 00:02:42.550 well -trained siblings in a deadly and epic struggle 00:02:42.550 --> 00:02:47.020 for independence. It's just awesome. It has been 00:02:47.020 --> 00:02:48.900 described and it says it on the back as well. 00:02:49.060 --> 00:02:51.639 Succession meets John Wick with immortal Vikings, 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:54.259 which I absolutely slaughtered. I mean, I have 00:02:54.259 --> 00:02:56.419 more succession, but I have heard of John Wick 00:02:56.419 --> 00:02:58.599 just because Keanu Reeves is such a pop star 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:02.139 on his own, right? But thank you for joining 00:03:02.139 --> 00:03:03.759 me today. I will stop rambling. Thanks for having 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:08.319 me. It's a pleasure. Thank you. Yes. So I guess 00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:10.139 I should start with the burning question that's 00:03:10.139 --> 00:03:12.759 been in my head ever since Discovery Studios 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:16.960 of Okay, immortals. Immortality is a theme that 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:21.020 has fascinated humans for eons, especially since 00:03:21.020 --> 00:03:23.060 the rise of Vikings, of course, with Interview 00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:25.300 with the Vampire has all the immortality themes 00:03:25.300 --> 00:03:29.580 in it. But you've decided to use a Viking family 00:03:29.580 --> 00:03:33.240 of all sacred, not sacred, but civilizations 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:35.719 of the past, I should say, to explore this theme. 00:03:36.219 --> 00:03:40.520 What brought you to pick Vikings? It's a great 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:44.580 question. I wonder if someone's listening, am 00:03:44.580 --> 00:03:49.479 I the first to do Vikings and immortality? I 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.939 don't know. I can only think of one example and 00:03:53.939 --> 00:03:57.439 that was in Charlene Harris's True Blood series 00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:00.580 in that she's got a Viking vampire called Eric. 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:03.240 Okay, there you go. That's the only one I've 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:07.680 come across, I must admit. This idea started 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:13.680 with kind of two two basic germinations. One 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:17.620 was like, if you are immortal and you're stuck 00:04:17.620 --> 00:04:20.540 with your family forever, how do you get out 00:04:20.540 --> 00:04:26.079 of your family? That's a very interesting problem 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:30.339 to have, to be immortal with the whole family 00:04:30.339 --> 00:04:33.180 and what conflict comes with that. The other 00:04:33.180 --> 00:04:36.660 thing is I like to, I've written about a dozen 00:04:36.660 --> 00:04:39.660 different, create our own series and comics. 00:04:39.899 --> 00:04:43.680 And I really like to look at very classic tropes, 00:04:43.779 --> 00:04:47.060 whether it's mind control or alien arrivals, 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.100 and kind of say, well, what hasn't been done 00:04:50.100 --> 00:04:54.339 and what kind of reflects modern times? My favorite 00:04:54.339 --> 00:04:56.860 kinds of movies and TV shows are the ones that 00:04:56.860 --> 00:04:58.980 I come out and I'm just dying to talk to someone 00:04:58.980 --> 00:05:02.060 about. And so when I thought about immortality, 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:07.060 you know, what modern ways have we not looked 00:05:07.060 --> 00:05:09.620 at immortality or how does immortality perhaps 00:05:09.620 --> 00:05:14.759 already exist in our society in some sort of 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:17.319 metaphoric nature? And I kept coming back to 00:05:17.319 --> 00:05:21.519 the billionaire class and just how you know the 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:24.860 very wealthy and powerful seem to be almost immortal 00:05:24.860 --> 00:05:28.980 in their names, in their in the freedom to do 00:05:28.980 --> 00:05:31.399 whatever they want. And then they pass that power 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:34.279 and wealth on through their families, generation 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:37.779 to generation. So very early in the process, 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:41.199 I knew this was a story about immortal billionaires, 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:45.899 but where did their heritage come from? What 00:05:45.899 --> 00:05:51.720 culture would I set it in? And Vikings felt so 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:57.399 authentic to the barbaric nature that seems to 00:05:58.579 --> 00:06:01.360 represent modern capitalism, that the rules of 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:05.439 modern capitalism, even if you go back to Wall 00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:08.800 Street in the 1980s, greed is good, you know? 00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:12.019 Everything is okay as long as you win and you 00:06:12.019 --> 00:06:15.339 win by any means necessary. And it seems that 00:06:15.339 --> 00:06:19.019 our politics, our society, we're just in an era, 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:22.779 whether you love it or hate it, that seems to 00:06:22.779 --> 00:06:26.279 endorse this sort of attitude, you know, that 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:30.420 the victor, claims the spoils and there really 00:06:30.420 --> 00:06:34.980 is no moral quandaries or limitations anymore. 00:06:35.100 --> 00:06:39.620 Everything is okay. And so the kind of, and I 00:06:39.620 --> 00:06:42.720 know that Viking culture is a very complex and 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:45.079 there's a lot of shades to it, but I think Vikings 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:48.759 were known for their fearlessness and their willingness 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:52.939 to go and do things that others hadn't. And they 00:06:52.939 --> 00:06:58.620 had no qualms about you know, conquest by any 00:06:58.620 --> 00:07:02.220 means. That was just their nature and so that 00:07:02.220 --> 00:07:05.839 felt like a really great way to look at the themes 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:09.360 that I wanted to look at in the story. That's 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:11.800 fascinating and it makes so much sense hearing 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:13.899 you explain it from that angle. I never thought 00:07:13.899 --> 00:07:16.579 of kind of like seeing as wealth as almost like 00:07:16.579 --> 00:07:19.920 a essence of immortality and that it just fixes 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:22.600 that name forever as much as kind of like fame 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:26.860 and celebrity does. Certainly Vikings as a family 00:07:26.860 --> 00:07:29.899 unit have such a strong core about them because 00:07:29.899 --> 00:07:32.839 I know from my interest in them, kind of like 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:34.259 in Iceland for example, they're always having 00:07:34.259 --> 00:07:36.819 blood feuds between one farmer and the next farmer 00:07:36.819 --> 00:07:39.639 and son avenging father and then their son avenging 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:41.879 their son and it just goes on and on and on. 00:07:42.279 --> 00:07:44.800 But thinking about it inside a family unit, kind 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:46.759 of like that conflict within the family more 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:50.040 than family versus another family, it certainly 00:07:50.329 --> 00:07:52.730 it brings it down to such a level that we can 00:07:52.730 --> 00:07:54.990 relate to in so many ways because of course even 00:07:54.990 --> 00:07:57.769 like the microcosm siblings always fall out to 00:07:57.769 --> 00:08:00.470 some degree. I've not met many siblings that 00:08:00.470 --> 00:08:03.589 haven't but certainly kind of the essence that 00:08:03.589 --> 00:08:06.689 you've explored with the control of the father 00:08:06.689 --> 00:08:10.569 being Leif Erickson. Oh no is it Erickson? Yeah, 00:08:10.629 --> 00:08:13.029 Lee Ferguson, is that right? The father is in 00:08:13.029 --> 00:08:16.529 spoiler alerts if you're already excited. No, 00:08:16.529 --> 00:08:18.269 no, no worries. We're going to get into it here. 00:08:18.350 --> 00:08:21.170 We're going to get into it. But the Viking family 00:08:21.170 --> 00:08:24.529 is none other than Eric the Red, who was actually 00:08:24.529 --> 00:08:32.070 banished from... the Nordic area and he was cast 00:08:32.070 --> 00:08:35.350 out to Iceland and he did a lot of exploring 00:08:35.350 --> 00:08:39.309 in Iceland and Greenland. And so we posit that 00:08:39.309 --> 00:08:41.289 he and his family and his four adult siblings, 00:08:41.450 --> 00:08:43.529 they were all adults at the time, discovered 00:08:43.529 --> 00:08:46.529 something that has made them immortal. And yeah, 00:08:46.850 --> 00:08:49.629 it lends itself to, because Vikings do have a 00:08:49.629 --> 00:08:52.029 very tight knit family and a family of codes 00:08:52.029 --> 00:08:58.299 and of loyalty. And the father is a very, revered 00:08:58.299 --> 00:09:01.379 sort of institution where you follow the father 00:09:01.379 --> 00:09:04.259 and there's this, so all of that only further 00:09:04.259 --> 00:09:07.460 lent to the conflict that arises for our protagonist, 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:10.980 Frey, because she's in this family and a thousand 00:09:10.980 --> 00:09:13.600 years later she's finding herself torn between 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.580 wanting to be a more modern, independent, free 00:09:16.580 --> 00:09:19.779 -thinking person and being attached to her mortal 00:09:19.779 --> 00:09:23.620 family who's not going anywhere, who has barbaric 00:09:23.620 --> 00:09:27.990 Viking tendencies and follow her father who has 00:09:27.990 --> 00:09:33.590 turned their humble banished beginnings into 00:09:33.590 --> 00:09:36.309 being a billionaire so that through conquest 00:09:36.309 --> 00:09:39.370 both in old world and new world they've amassed 00:09:39.370 --> 00:09:43.750 a fortune. So yeah, the Viking family culture 00:09:43.750 --> 00:09:48.289 really lent itself to this sort of the conflict 00:09:48.289 --> 00:09:52.529 of the family in this story. So did you dive 00:09:52.529 --> 00:09:55.409 much into researching about Eric the Red and 00:09:55.409 --> 00:09:58.649 how, of course, his leaf then discovered North 00:09:58.649 --> 00:10:01.110 America, which of course where it's all set? 00:10:02.250 --> 00:10:06.870 Yeah, I researched a bit about Eric the Red and 00:10:06.870 --> 00:10:10.070 I researched a bit about his adult children. 00:10:11.289 --> 00:10:14.529 You know, something we don't get into in the 00:10:14.529 --> 00:10:17.850 comics so much, but it was always, we hint at 00:10:17.850 --> 00:10:24.379 it, is that, yeah, Eric is is his son is Leif, 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:27.299 and we have the character Leif, but they've been 00:10:27.299 --> 00:10:30.179 alive for a thousand years. So what they're kind 00:10:30.179 --> 00:10:33.919 of essentially doing is flipping identities every 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:36.620 generation to allow themselves to continue. And 00:10:36.620 --> 00:10:39.919 there's one part in the story where the siblings 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.200 talk about this. So even in the, you get that 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:45.299 Leif did these things and then Eric does these 00:10:45.299 --> 00:10:48.240 things, but then we're not so sure if it's actually 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:52.259 been Eric all along. in my fiction here. But 00:10:52.259 --> 00:10:54.600 yeah, I did research a good bit of it. And it 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:57.759 was certainly researched a lot about the characters 00:10:57.759 --> 00:11:01.980 just to kind of get certainly an identity for 00:11:01.980 --> 00:11:08.240 Eric. Eric the Red grew up to a very violent, 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:11.840 very aggressive father. And by all accounts, 00:11:11.940 --> 00:11:14.500 the fact that he was banished from his own homeland 00:11:14.500 --> 00:11:17.940 for fighting and feuding seems to have followed 00:11:17.940 --> 00:11:20.990 suit. And so I only then stand to reason that 00:11:20.990 --> 00:11:23.669 this is the kind of behavior that he's adopted. 00:11:24.450 --> 00:11:26.070 So I did a lot of research like that. Another 00:11:26.070 --> 00:11:27.889 thing that you'll find interesting is I did research 00:11:27.889 --> 00:11:34.710 on the origins of our immortality tale. And so 00:11:34.710 --> 00:11:37.990 when I started to go, OK, I've got this Viking 00:11:37.990 --> 00:11:40.990 family and they're immortal, just right off the 00:11:40.990 --> 00:11:47.509 bat, there's this Viking fable of Loki. and who 00:11:47.509 --> 00:11:53.250 steals, they kidnap the goddess of immortality 00:11:53.250 --> 00:12:00.710 from, what's the... She's in an apple orchard, 00:12:00.830 --> 00:12:02.330 I can't remember the name of it, but you're talking 00:12:02.330 --> 00:12:04.629 about Idun, the goddess who looks after the golden 00:12:04.629 --> 00:12:09.750 apples. Yeah, Idun. And so they kidnapped her 00:12:09.750 --> 00:12:11.669 and then they held her for ransom in exchange 00:12:11.669 --> 00:12:14.950 for immortality. And so I said, well, what if 00:12:14.950 --> 00:12:19.899 that... fable was not actually Loki. What if 00:12:19.899 --> 00:12:22.360 it actually was Eric the Red and his family? 00:12:22.500 --> 00:12:25.159 And so when Eric the Red and his children talk 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:29.559 about, there's a mystery around how they became 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:32.679 immortal. But when you read it, the mystery unfolds. 00:12:32.700 --> 00:12:35.259 But at the onset, when they talk about it, they 00:12:35.259 --> 00:12:39.059 talk about it as as it was Idoon. They found 00:12:39.059 --> 00:12:42.139 Idoon. And we don't know enough about it. We 00:12:42.139 --> 00:12:45.399 come to learn more about it. But I delved into 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:49.799 the mythology a little bit as well to kind of 00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:52.340 wrap it in the story. So that was a lot of fun 00:12:52.340 --> 00:12:57.340 to research the Viking mythology of that. It 00:12:57.340 --> 00:13:00.480 was a really interesting and surprising twist, 00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:03.509 I will say that. I thought, oh, OK, they've got 00:13:03.509 --> 00:13:05.269 to speed on the ship. But then, oh, they find 00:13:05.269 --> 00:13:07.529 another ship that isn't like any other ship that 00:13:07.529 --> 00:13:10.210 humans have ever made or built or seen without 00:13:10.210 --> 00:13:14.409 spoiling it too much. But I really liked that, 00:13:14.730 --> 00:13:17.769 and especially having kind of like. in the era 00:13:17.769 --> 00:13:20.769 of constantly the TV series Vikings and Vikings 00:13:20.769 --> 00:13:23.730 Valhalla where Eric the Red does feature. Even 00:13:23.730 --> 00:13:26.870 in that he is quite a brutal dominating leader. 00:13:27.009 --> 00:13:31.309 He will go to the extreme of anything to remain 00:13:31.309 --> 00:13:36.529 in power and that whole debacle. So it felt very 00:13:36.529 --> 00:13:40.240 much in sync with that perception which Indeed 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:42.299 could well be true. I've obviously heard of him, 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:45.240 but just not read much about him. Being obviously 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.340 from the UK, most of my Viking stuff comes from 00:13:48.340 --> 00:13:50.419 the immediate European and obviously the homeland 00:13:50.419 --> 00:13:53.000 of Scandinavia just up across the North Sea. 00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:55.779 But they did go about everywhere. So it makes 00:13:55.779 --> 00:13:59.200 sense to have them kind of like have that huge 00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:02.200 capitalist lifestyle in a separate place entirely. 00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:05.100 I often say to my husband that we wouldn't be 00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:06.840 surprised if you find a long boat on the moon 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:09.919 at some point because they just went everywhere. 00:14:10.899 --> 00:14:14.679 And I think he's the ultimate antagonist of the 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:19.139 story, Eric, her father. This is really a family 00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:24.580 drama and it has all sorts of ramifications that 00:14:24.580 --> 00:14:28.399 we are really excited to expand on as we continue 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:31.019 the series. But in the first arc, it is really 00:14:33.689 --> 00:14:36.669 this conflict that has been brewing, you know, 00:14:36.809 --> 00:14:39.710 for a very long time, but it finally reaches 00:14:39.710 --> 00:14:42.549 its pinnacle here. And I mean, I think about, 00:14:42.549 --> 00:14:47.490 you know, Frey, and she comes from this background, 00:14:47.669 --> 00:14:51.629 this protagonist, where she's been worn down 00:14:51.629 --> 00:14:55.470 by her father for centuries. I mean, they discovered 00:14:55.470 --> 00:15:01.769 their mortality in the 11th century. and the 00:15:01.769 --> 00:15:06.070 ten hundreds and so for centuries she's being 00:15:06.070 --> 00:15:09.389 told that she answers to him and you know she 00:15:09.389 --> 00:15:11.409 does what she's told and if he wants her out 00:15:11.409 --> 00:15:13.929 of combat she's out of combat and she can throw 00:15:13.929 --> 00:15:16.350 a fit here or there but for the grand scheme 00:15:16.350 --> 00:15:18.809 of things she's stuck with them and she answers 00:15:18.809 --> 00:15:22.049 to them. Suddenly the 20th century and the 21st 00:15:22.049 --> 00:15:25.070 century roll around and we have a woman's rights 00:15:25.070 --> 00:15:27.360 movement and we have a completely different you 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:31.279 know, society evolving. And I don't think that 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:34.440 someone who's been alive a thousand years changes 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:37.019 their course on a dime, but I think that this 00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:39.500 is something that's been slowly brewing in her 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:43.899 and by present day, she sees herself as an independent 00:15:43.899 --> 00:15:48.159 person. She's trying to reimagine herself in 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.580 a modern kind of context. And that, you know, 00:15:51.740 --> 00:15:55.970 does not square with her family's her family's 00:15:55.970 --> 00:15:58.330 idea of who she should be. So it's only a matter 00:15:58.330 --> 00:16:01.330 of time, and we just happened to come to the 00:16:01.330 --> 00:16:05.230 onset of this struggle, you know, boiling over. 00:16:05.710 --> 00:16:10.149 But it's really fun to think about the Viking 00:16:10.149 --> 00:16:12.750 culture and the culture and the eras all wrapped 00:16:12.750 --> 00:16:16.610 into her story. Yeah, I mean, it's one thing 00:16:16.610 --> 00:16:18.990 that I was... going to ask you about but you've 00:16:18.990 --> 00:16:20.769 answered in many ways so I'm really kind of like 00:16:20.769 --> 00:16:24.169 why you chose to have Frey be the one, be the 00:16:24.169 --> 00:16:26.450 rebel, be the kind of like defiant one in the 00:16:26.450 --> 00:16:28.690 family and not the first born son because so 00:16:28.690 --> 00:16:30.529 much it's always kind of like father trying to 00:16:30.529 --> 00:16:33.490 overthrow, son trying to throw the father kind 00:16:33.490 --> 00:16:36.490 of like topple the hierarchy with the next heir 00:16:36.490 --> 00:16:39.029 apparent kind of thing but instead it's the woman, 00:16:39.169 --> 00:16:41.230 it's the only daughter, the only girl in the 00:16:41.230 --> 00:16:45.980 group. Yeah yeah yeah and there's and eric thread 00:16:45.980 --> 00:16:50.940 had only one daughter there's even some um indications 00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:53.279 in some of the historical context that i've read 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.820 that she might have not been of the same mother 00:16:55.820 --> 00:17:00.879 as the boys so uh she's an outcast through and 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:03.840 through um and i guess there are some viking 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.700 cultural aspects you you see it in the vikings 00:17:06.700 --> 00:17:10.180 tv show where women were considered partners 00:17:10.180 --> 00:17:14.559 and equal and were given respect but i general 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.619 understanding is that's on a case -by -case basis. 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:21.720 There are some communities and some men in history 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.359 that respect Viking women, and there are some 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:27.339 that do not. And so I had to make that choice, 00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:29.200 and that's obviously an easy choice because we're 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:32.099 trying to create a dramatic situation. So I chose 00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:36.220 to have her father be one that does not see it 00:17:36.220 --> 00:17:38.900 that way, sees her as lesser than. It just made 00:17:38.900 --> 00:17:42.609 for a a more interesting conflict than having 00:17:42.609 --> 00:17:45.690 the firstborn male who's obviously going to be 00:17:45.690 --> 00:17:48.410 respected, who's obviously going to be a favorite, 00:17:48.589 --> 00:17:50.950 who's going to have a source of power already. 00:17:51.549 --> 00:17:54.750 Having a character who is up against everything. 00:17:54.890 --> 00:17:56.809 She's up against her sibling, she's up against 00:17:56.809 --> 00:17:58.829 her father, she's up against her gender, she's 00:17:58.829 --> 00:18:00.910 up against the institution, she's up against 00:18:00.910 --> 00:18:05.170 everything. It just makes it a more... fulfilling 00:18:05.170 --> 00:18:07.710 experience to watch her overcome all that and 00:18:07.710 --> 00:18:10.789 a more emotional connection for us, I think, 00:18:10.829 --> 00:18:14.509 as readers. We're really rooting for her. And 00:18:14.509 --> 00:18:17.470 then I just love the complexity of it all because 00:18:17.470 --> 00:18:21.210 you're rooting for her independence. I mean, 00:18:21.210 --> 00:18:24.369 it's very easy to root for her. But then what 00:18:24.369 --> 00:18:28.549 is required of her to be independent? She's got 00:18:28.549 --> 00:18:31.670 to go to war and take down her family. She's 00:18:31.670 --> 00:18:35.119 got to almost become an equally barbaric entity, 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:39.640 which is compromising her very ideals. And that 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:44.819 is me channeling things that I feel in modern 00:18:44.819 --> 00:18:48.920 times as we face, you know, very aggressive forces 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:52.440 to ask ourselves what is required of us in combating 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:55.039 these? Can we still maintain our pragmatism and 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:59.519 our ideals and our morality when we face our 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:03.690 Eric the Reds? And what is, what must be sacrificed 00:19:03.690 --> 00:19:05.589 or what is the compromise or what is the way 00:19:05.589 --> 00:19:10.069 to to to maintain your identity in a in a world 00:19:10.069 --> 00:19:14.109 like that so it having her be the only daughter 00:19:14.109 --> 00:19:16.970 just lends itself to such a better story you 00:19:16.970 --> 00:19:21.829 know yeah i mean if i'm i think i'm right in 00:19:21.829 --> 00:19:24.359 this assumption that Although you've named her 00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:27.420 Frey, the figure that she's based upon was known 00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:29.680 as Freydice and I do believe she was the one 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:31.440 that slapped her breast with a sword when she 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.380 was fighting off the natives when they were trying 00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:37.539 to found themselves in Newfoundland. kind of 00:19:37.539 --> 00:19:39.400 like in the north above Canada, kind of like 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:43.559 just before they found America properly. So she's 00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:45.220 already kind of got quite a legacy. And even 00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:47.579 that legacy is still kind of like two sided. 00:19:47.859 --> 00:19:51.000 Some sources describe it quite heroically and 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.660 strongly. Some describe it like, oh, but she 00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:54.240 kind of like she wished the old gods she didn't 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.000 do Christy. Because a lot of these sources came 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.200 from so long ago after the event that we're always 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.700 getting kind of like false opinion of so and 00:20:01.700 --> 00:20:03.400 so, not necessarily kind of like someone from 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.259 the source. which is what I think is what I love 00:20:06.259 --> 00:20:08.319 talking to you and so many other creators about 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:10.819 because it gives that freedom, that opportunity 00:20:10.819 --> 00:20:14.779 to kind of explore the what ifs around that time 00:20:14.779 --> 00:20:16.740 about that person, about what they did or what 00:20:16.740 --> 00:20:20.359 they didn't do and the ramifications of it. But 00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:22.400 I do really appreciate the way kind of you had 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:25.180 like moments I think often around the start of 00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:27.900 each issue at least in this first arc where you 00:20:27.900 --> 00:20:30.160 see kind of Freya trying to say her father I 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:31.980 don't think we should be doing this, this feels 00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:34.500 wrong. I know we're immortals and all that but 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:36.039 I don't think you should be burning these people 00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:38.160 alive in this house because they're vagabonds 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:40.380 and she's like no well if you won't do it I'll 00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:42.180 get my sons to do it then kind of thing kind 00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:45.220 of like it just completely sweeps under the carpet 00:20:45.220 --> 00:20:48.200 so you can see she is trying to find her feet 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:51.220 and then of course at the way she comes into 00:20:51.220 --> 00:20:53.559 conflict is because she has a boyfriend who is 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:55.680 of course mortal because no one else is like 00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:00.079 as far as they know. We'll get on to that segue 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:05.579 there in a minute or two which almost paints 00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:08.640 the kind of modern equivalent of oh my daughter's 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:10.519 bringing home a boyfriend that is a proof of 00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:13.299 but very much in a immortal context that they 00:21:13.299 --> 00:21:15.960 cannot ever know what we are kind of like we 00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:18.640 are better off alone that's it's kind of like 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:20.839 you've got to kill him or be done or be told 00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:23.519 off and go into the naughty corner and that was 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:27.130 that was such a really nice Conflict to kick 00:21:27.130 --> 00:21:29.369 things off not that he'd like not that she can 00:21:29.369 --> 00:21:31.589 push too far and she'd seen one too many trustees 00:21:31.589 --> 00:21:34.210 But actually just wanted to finally have this 00:21:34.210 --> 00:21:39.210 little piece of something for herself Yeah, yeah, 00:21:39.210 --> 00:21:44.750 I mean It was what is the straw that breaks the 00:21:44.750 --> 00:21:47.750 the camel's back here and and and I think what's 00:21:47.750 --> 00:21:51.089 interesting is That relationship in and of itself. 00:21:51.089 --> 00:21:54.230 I tried to approach it very complex and and I 00:21:54.230 --> 00:21:58.299 I I don't think the phrase in love with this 00:21:58.299 --> 00:22:01.440 guy at the onset, but he's still hers and it's 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.720 still her life. And I think it's more about her 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:08.339 independence. I think if it swayed too much in 00:22:08.339 --> 00:22:12.160 the other direction, we would feel that she was 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:16.319 doing everything for just love. And I don't think 00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:19.819 that's her identity. I think her identity is 00:22:19.819 --> 00:22:24.029 one of... of ideals. And so she likes the idea 00:22:24.029 --> 00:22:26.089 that she should be able to decide whatever she 00:22:26.089 --> 00:22:28.109 wants to do and whoever she wants to be with. 00:22:28.450 --> 00:22:31.710 And she sacrificed enough for sure. Why shouldn't 00:22:31.710 --> 00:22:36.309 she get this? And her family has a different 00:22:36.309 --> 00:22:40.089 set of views. And I almost can't, I don't have 00:22:40.089 --> 00:22:42.589 the answer to this, but I almost can't help but 00:22:42.589 --> 00:22:46.210 wonder if over the past many years in Frey's 00:22:46.210 --> 00:22:49.180 story, if she's been looking for this opportunity, 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.900 that she's almost inviting it, that she wants 00:22:52.900 --> 00:22:57.380 this fight. And so, you know, in thinking about 00:22:57.380 --> 00:23:01.539 why would she, why does she involve herself with 00:23:01.539 --> 00:23:04.200 a mortal and why does she let it be public and 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:07.759 why does she let her family know about it, I 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:12.829 almost think that... maybe deep down she's welcoming 00:23:12.829 --> 00:23:16.509 this, but it's never stated and it's left very 00:23:16.509 --> 00:23:23.789 ambiguously. But when it happens, she has a moment 00:23:23.789 --> 00:23:26.730 or two where she says, what am I gonna do here? 00:23:27.130 --> 00:23:29.210 But very quickly she finds her true North and 00:23:29.210 --> 00:23:31.650 her true North is to stand up to her family. 00:23:32.430 --> 00:23:35.670 And then she ends up only realizing that I'm 00:23:35.670 --> 00:23:40.259 standing up to them for my own life. But what 00:23:40.259 --> 00:23:42.140 else should I be standing up to them for? Like 00:23:42.140 --> 00:23:46.619 you say, for history, for generations, she's 00:23:46.619 --> 00:23:49.240 been challenging her father on all sorts of atrocities 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:52.559 and all sorts of actions. And so now she's finally 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:58.759 saying, wait a minute, maybe I have more agency 00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:01.920 here, which is a very modern thing to try to 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.339 find your agency in a situation and ask, what 00:24:05.339 --> 00:24:10.059 should you be doing about it? Yeah, it was a 00:24:10.059 --> 00:24:14.220 very interesting setup to concoct and there's 00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:20.000 this fine line of seeing her just trying to live 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.440 her life, just trying to be able to be happy. 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:31.220 And this really climaxes really well with especially 00:24:31.220 --> 00:24:36.380 the final issue in this first arc where she has 00:24:36.380 --> 00:24:38.880 parted ways without spoiling it too much, with 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:41.779 the guy that kicked all this conflict off to 00:24:41.779 --> 00:24:45.180 begin with. She goes back home. Instead of running 00:24:45.180 --> 00:24:46.680 and carrying on around the world and doing what 00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:49.200 she can to stay in Dreda, she goes all the way 00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:53.220 back home. And at first, she appears amicable, 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:56.339 calm, peaceful. But then obviously, father's 00:24:56.339 --> 00:24:58.160 like, right, well, you need to be punished. And 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:01.299 of course, all three of his lads, Thor, Stain 00:25:01.299 --> 00:25:04.619 and Leaf, come on. And she then turns the tables 00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:07.160 on them, she makes them question what they're 00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:09.839 doing. And I really like that as a code, instead 00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:11.940 of kind of like toppling the hierarchy from the 00:25:11.940 --> 00:25:14.480 top down, she's toppling it from the bottom up, 00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:16.380 because they're the pillars that support the 00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:19.500 father. Absolutely. Right. And that's and that 00:25:19.500 --> 00:25:22.359 feels the most authentic to me anyway, that you're 00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:27.380 not going to topple an autocrat like Eric the 00:25:27.380 --> 00:25:30.980 Red. just by defeating him, you have to, you 00:25:30.980 --> 00:25:33.599 know, you have to take out his supporters and 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:36.319 take out his sons here in this situation. And 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:40.960 these are her brothers. And as a storyteller, 00:25:41.339 --> 00:25:45.259 I tried to weave those narratives with each brother. 00:25:45.859 --> 00:25:49.160 So each issue has its own sort of energy and 00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:52.740 momentum where she's combating each brother. 00:25:53.140 --> 00:25:56.630 But then you can sense that there's chance for 00:25:56.630 --> 00:25:58.829 this relationship to go either way and she's 00:25:58.829 --> 00:26:01.450 succeeding or failing and then ultimately it 00:26:01.450 --> 00:26:07.509 culminates and and so yeah, it's it feels like 00:26:07.509 --> 00:26:11.710 the right it feels like it's it's You know when 00:26:11.710 --> 00:26:14.089 you have a story that's focused on action and 00:26:14.089 --> 00:26:16.829 this was a real challenge for this story We've 00:26:16.829 --> 00:26:18.990 got an action both in my first action series 00:26:18.990 --> 00:26:21.670 So it was really rewarding to see it to see it 00:26:21.670 --> 00:26:24.410 hit so well, but you can't just have action where 00:26:24.410 --> 00:26:27.049 you've got Two guys and they're both tough and 00:26:27.049 --> 00:26:30.609 they go fight The action has to come from different 00:26:30.609 --> 00:26:34.789 philosophical beliefs kind of combating as your 00:26:34.789 --> 00:26:38.930 two warriors fight, you know, and I mean, I think 00:26:38.930 --> 00:26:42.490 John wick, you know, it's rewarding because you 00:26:42.490 --> 00:26:46.220 know, he's not just the same as everyone. He's 00:26:46.220 --> 00:26:50.460 the assassin with a heart of gold. So it's got 00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:53.680 more layers to it. So here in this one, you know, 00:26:54.099 --> 00:26:55.740 every time Frey fights someone, they're both 00:26:55.740 --> 00:26:58.720 immortal. She's immortal, her brothers are immortal, 00:26:58.859 --> 00:27:02.240 her father's immortal. So we know that even if 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:05.240 someone gets their head chopped off, most likely 00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:08.680 they're coming back. So how do we build drama 00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:11.180 out of this? This is really... freaking hard. 00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:13.720 But the answer is that because as they're fighting, 00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:17.859 it's a philosophical fight between her point 00:27:17.859 --> 00:27:19.660 of view and their point of view. And they're 00:27:19.660 --> 00:27:22.180 actually having arguments during these fights 00:27:22.180 --> 00:27:24.660 to try to see if she can persuade them, or if 00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:26.839 they can persuade her, can they point out her 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:29.960 hypocrisy, can they challenge her to that, you 00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:32.019 know, then she realizes they're right, she's 00:27:32.019 --> 00:27:34.859 got to evolve. And so it's a very kind of moving 00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:38.549 story to see her go from I just want to be independent 00:27:38.549 --> 00:27:40.930 to maybe I need to have more agency over my family 00:27:40.930 --> 00:27:44.589 to what do I need to sacrifice to take leadership 00:27:44.589 --> 00:27:48.930 amongst my siblings? And so we had a really fun 00:27:48.930 --> 00:27:53.349 time kind of, you know, dramatizing that that 00:27:53.349 --> 00:27:56.569 against the backdrop of just kick ass fights 00:27:56.569 --> 00:27:59.190 and really, you know, thrilling, thrilling special 00:27:59.190 --> 00:28:03.039 effects like that. I mean, it is. the action 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:05.619 in it is stunning and it is just like watching 00:28:05.619 --> 00:28:07.779 a kind of like a really good thriller action 00:28:07.779 --> 00:28:10.579 movie but on paper and especially kind of like 00:28:10.579 --> 00:28:12.319 the little reels at that cost and where they're 00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:14.720 all slightly moving. It does look like a cartoon 00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:16.960 but a really epic cartoon. We have a great art 00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:20.720 team. The artist on this is Pico Osseo and if 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:22.980 you're out there and you don't follow comics 00:28:22.980 --> 00:28:26.980 a lot he's a real rising star at DC. He's done 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:32.819 Mr. Miracle and Black Lightning. And he's just 00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:36.240 fantastic. We've got a real hot new colorist, 00:28:36.420 --> 00:28:40.160 Diago Rocha, whose colors just really bring the 00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:43.440 whole thing to life. And he actually designed 00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:47.680 this sort of color iconography. So sometimes 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:50.619 you'll see like a panel almost has like a gold 00:28:50.619 --> 00:28:53.339 filter or a red filter, depending on how heightened 00:28:53.339 --> 00:28:57.549 the intensity of the battle is. Yeah, it's really, 00:28:57.650 --> 00:29:01.369 really great. So, and then our letter is an Eisner 00:29:01.369 --> 00:29:03.950 winning letter, Hassan Aksmen El Haas. So, we've 00:29:03.950 --> 00:29:06.130 been very lucky to have a great art team on this 00:29:06.130 --> 00:29:08.470 book and they bring the action to life and I 00:29:08.470 --> 00:29:13.710 get to just write, you know, swords fly. Someone 00:29:13.710 --> 00:29:15.809 kicks, someone rolls away and they bring it all 00:29:15.809 --> 00:29:19.430 to life. So, you know, it's been great. It is 00:29:19.430 --> 00:29:23.069 such a stunning novel through teamwork, as you 00:29:23.069 --> 00:29:25.319 say, and of course... I can't just let you go 00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:27.539 without congratulating on your excellent writing. 00:29:27.819 --> 00:29:30.099 I mean, I come from a creative writing background. 00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:32.420 I'm attempting to write something creatively 00:29:32.420 --> 00:29:34.559 for the first time in 10 years, and it's a struggle, 00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:37.000 and that's just short fiction. So to write for 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:40.579 comics, to be so concise and to get so much out 00:29:40.579 --> 00:29:42.839 of so few words without having the entire panel 00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:46.740 be speech bubbles, I salute you, sir, because... 00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:49.180 I mean, even the dialogue on the first page when 00:29:49.180 --> 00:29:51.819 Freydis is anonymously addressing the re -day, 00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:54.660 it just grips me. I'm like, oh, this is good. 00:29:54.740 --> 00:29:57.559 This is good. I want to know more. And of course, 00:29:57.740 --> 00:30:00.259 my favourite bit, personally, being from a librarian 00:30:00.259 --> 00:30:02.079 background, has to be the little library she 00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:06.559 finds hidden away in Norway. It's like Alexander's 00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:08.900 library, but Norse. It's got all the secret hall 00:30:08.900 --> 00:30:13.269 and all sorts. Well, not quite the treasure of 00:30:13.269 --> 00:30:14.970 water. It's going too far back. But you know 00:30:14.970 --> 00:30:16.490 what I mean. It's that kind of vibe. They've 00:30:16.490 --> 00:30:18.230 got some really good plunder. They've got some 00:30:18.230 --> 00:30:22.269 good plunder in there. Yeah, it was fun. She 00:30:22.269 --> 00:30:24.609 goes on a bit of an adventure to try to uncover 00:30:24.609 --> 00:30:26.690 the family's secrets. And she's thinking that 00:30:26.690 --> 00:30:29.650 if I can uncover the secrets, then I can have 00:30:29.650 --> 00:30:33.529 some leverage in this negotiation and I can get 00:30:33.529 --> 00:30:37.309 my independence. And so there's a bit of a... 00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:41.240 globetrotting sort of adventure. And so that 00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:42.680 was fun to kind of think about, okay, where do 00:30:42.680 --> 00:30:46.240 they go? What do they see? What sort of probes? 00:30:46.660 --> 00:30:49.799 And so one of the things they get to see is Eric's 00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:52.859 The Reds, you know, very expansive collection 00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:56.079 of plunder and bounty, which is really fun. And 00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:59.279 they get to see a Viking ship later and all sorts 00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.289 of, you know. Viking library in the middle of 00:31:02.289 --> 00:31:05.289 the woods, and a stronghold, and all sorts of, 00:31:05.369 --> 00:31:08.210 yeah, it was fun to really imagine that world 00:31:08.210 --> 00:31:13.650 of mythical forgotten Viking buildings and entities 00:31:13.650 --> 00:31:18.690 that we could dot in. And the whole book is done 00:31:18.690 --> 00:31:23.349 in this, it's... half of it's this modern thing, 00:31:23.509 --> 00:31:25.289 like, you know, they're fighting in the nightclub 00:31:25.289 --> 00:31:27.670 and they're fighting on the private plane tarmac. 00:31:27.849 --> 00:31:30.109 And so half of it and they're fighting in suits 00:31:30.109 --> 00:31:34.089 and evening gowns. So half of it's modern. And 00:31:34.089 --> 00:31:36.809 then the other half is is ancient still. They 00:31:36.809 --> 00:31:38.730 still have Viking hair. They still have Viking 00:31:38.730 --> 00:31:40.710 weapons. They still have these Viking buildings 00:31:40.710 --> 00:31:43.390 that they're going to. So it was really fun to 00:31:43.390 --> 00:31:45.450 bounce back and forth between those completely 00:31:45.450 --> 00:31:49.809 different, you know, world identities. Well, 00:31:49.809 --> 00:31:52.359 I think you You and the team behind you have 00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:54.240 captured that brilliantly and all the designs 00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:56.559 and they are going to be popping up around me. 00:31:56.660 --> 00:31:58.539 So dear viewers, if you're on YouTube, do watch 00:31:58.539 --> 00:32:00.940 and admire them because I know I've listened 00:32:00.940 --> 00:32:03.480 to your chat with them capes and tights podcasts 00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:05.079 and how you describe it. It's very much like 00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:07.420 a supermodel, but after you've just in a murder 00:32:07.420 --> 00:32:10.819 kind of thing. Yeah, kind of like the suits and 00:32:10.819 --> 00:32:12.819 kind of like blood everywhere. But yeah, we did 00:32:12.819 --> 00:32:15.839 the covers. We did the covers like like a fashion 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:19.029 shoot. Yeah, yes. It's gorgeous and I love how 00:32:19.029 --> 00:32:20.930 on each one you show a bit of their like kind 00:32:20.930 --> 00:32:23.170 of like Nordic tattoos going on because all the 00:32:23.170 --> 00:32:25.670 siblings have some epic tattoo art on them and 00:32:25.670 --> 00:32:28.210 I just besides kind of like the weaponry I mean 00:32:28.210 --> 00:32:30.250 like Freya is holding an axe which immediately 00:32:30.250 --> 00:32:32.630 screams Viking to me because Vikings are always 00:32:32.630 --> 00:32:35.069 synonymous with axes even though we're a very 00:32:35.069 --> 00:32:38.490 high prized weapon very luxurious it was usually 00:32:38.490 --> 00:32:41.410 spears or swords if you're lucky. um but yeah 00:32:41.410 --> 00:32:43.009 i mean of course you had the character the brother 00:32:43.009 --> 00:32:46.109 thor carrying like a huge hammer not quite the 00:32:46.109 --> 00:32:49.009 older size but pretty impressive stain has kind 00:32:49.009 --> 00:32:51.569 of like his daggers on chains like you whip around 00:32:51.569 --> 00:32:57.490 and of course yeah um leaf has the sword um eric 00:32:57.490 --> 00:33:00.509 has the even bigger axe yeah of all of them and 00:33:00.509 --> 00:33:04.089 it's just yeah i i mean i remember the very early 00:33:04.089 --> 00:33:06.880 on it was okay here the five five characters, 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.200 who gets what, who gets what weapons, you know, 00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:13.059 and how are they each different, you know, and 00:33:13.059 --> 00:33:17.039 how do they each represent, you know, so, yeah, 00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:21.180 the father's got the big axe, the big brother's 00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:23.519 doors, he's got the hammer, and thinking about 00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:26.940 them all, and Frey has got two hatchets, which 00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:30.180 felt very fitting, because they're axes, but 00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:34.000 they're small, but her power doesn't come from 00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:37.809 her strength, it comes from her her quickness, 00:33:38.190 --> 00:33:44.230 her willingness to be flexible. And so it felt 00:33:44.230 --> 00:33:46.789 like the right weapon for her and thinking about 00:33:46.789 --> 00:33:48.890 what weapons going to define her, because she's 00:33:48.890 --> 00:33:52.069 going to be on a bunch of covers with hatchets. 00:33:52.869 --> 00:33:56.829 So yeah, that was... I really, really liked that. 00:33:57.049 --> 00:33:59.529 Especially in the start, that first issue, you 00:33:59.529 --> 00:34:04.420 see... Eric and his boys invade a rich guy's 00:34:04.420 --> 00:34:06.279 manor that he's not going to deal with. And so 00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:07.579 they're like, right, we don't want to talk to 00:34:07.579 --> 00:34:09.159 you. Well, no, there exists goodbye. Off with 00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:10.480 your heads and all that. And they don't come 00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:12.760 in with guns like the mafia would do if it was 00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:15.559 initially. They come in with their blazing weapons. 00:34:16.179 --> 00:34:21.659 And that just speaks of so much about their characters 00:34:21.659 --> 00:34:24.570 and how much they feel impervious to anything 00:34:24.570 --> 00:34:26.409 that like we don't need guns we can just whack 00:34:26.409 --> 00:34:27.889 them over the head with our weapons and be gone 00:34:27.889 --> 00:34:29.469 that'd be fine we'll have a different team to 00:34:29.469 --> 00:34:32.849 clean up i feel like that scene the opening scene 00:34:32.849 --> 00:34:37.030 is totally believable today i mean if you told 00:34:37.030 --> 00:34:41.230 me that that ceo watched everybody in his mansion 00:34:41.230 --> 00:34:43.769 get killed they said here's the contracts he 00:34:43.769 --> 00:34:45.869 signed he came out for the press release he says 00:34:45.869 --> 00:34:47.989 everybody i know has been killed in a horrible 00:34:47.989 --> 00:34:49.789 accident but these guys are the best and i'm 00:34:49.789 --> 00:34:52.860 going into business with them Totally believe 00:34:52.860 --> 00:34:56.260 that I totally believe this a hundred percent. 00:34:56.260 --> 00:34:59.519 So it yeah just I mean, that's the that's the 00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:03.119 great Thing about I don't know if it's satire, 00:35:03.139 --> 00:35:06.000 but it like, you know looking at looking at modern 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.960 times through a lens, you know, yeah busting 00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:12.539 through and Forcing your will on someone in a 00:35:12.539 --> 00:35:16.079 business deal with with with your axes and swords 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:22.490 and stuff that feels very very modern Yeah Yeah, 00:35:22.490 --> 00:35:25.530 it just it wouldn't be the same if they use modern 00:35:25.530 --> 00:35:28.030 weapons. It just wouldn't and that of course 00:35:28.030 --> 00:35:31.150 Like that they're kind of like instinctual call 00:35:31.150 --> 00:35:35.150 as people of Norse heritage They've just it's 00:35:35.150 --> 00:35:37.369 remained a constant no matter how long they've 00:35:37.369 --> 00:35:40.190 lived. It's it's their constant Yeah, that means 00:35:40.190 --> 00:35:42.690 that's that's right. They had to use ancient 00:35:42.690 --> 00:35:45.489 weapons and it's almost a kind of respect to 00:35:45.489 --> 00:35:47.389 the battle that they come from. They come from 00:35:47.389 --> 00:35:49.590 this, when you go to battle, you take your sword, 00:35:49.769 --> 00:35:51.650 you take your axe, you take your hammer. They're 00:35:51.650 --> 00:35:54.150 impervious to guns anyway, so they're not worried 00:35:54.150 --> 00:35:57.090 about being shot, so they're gonna bring these 00:35:57.090 --> 00:35:59.650 weapons to it, and when they fight each other, 00:35:59.969 --> 00:36:02.449 it comes from a, why doesn't someone just get 00:36:02.449 --> 00:36:04.869 out a gun? That's just not their code. Their 00:36:04.869 --> 00:36:09.269 code is to use their weapons. So, yeah, absolutely. 00:36:10.019 --> 00:36:12.860 I mean I'm instantly thinking of course I don't 00:36:12.860 --> 00:36:14.880 mean to make comparisons but I mean it in the 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:16.440 best way of course kind of like with the old 00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:19.460 guard being of course the latest Netflix kind 00:36:19.460 --> 00:36:23.260 of iteration because of course oh my god I've 00:36:23.260 --> 00:36:24.820 forgotten her name but the lead actress in that 00:36:24.820 --> 00:36:27.179 she's always using her kind of like round circular 00:36:27.179 --> 00:36:30.320 axe always no matter what she's up against she's 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:34.679 always using an axe so yeah it just it just fits 00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:38.559 really really well. Yeah, I mean, Old Guard is 00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:41.280 similar in many ways in the sense that it's an 00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:43.179 action series that deals with immortality. I 00:36:43.179 --> 00:36:47.099 think that we're just fundamentally trying to 00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:50.340 look at the institution of a family and the institution 00:36:50.340 --> 00:36:52.960 of billionaires. And because of those two institutions 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:55.920 being part of Kill All Immortals that are not 00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:58.360 part of the Old Guard, I mean, the Old Guard 00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:03.050 is about old vendettas and about, you know, that 00:37:03.050 --> 00:37:04.889 world of immortality, but I think they're different. 00:37:05.130 --> 00:37:07.590 And so I would say if you enjoy it, Old Guard, 00:37:07.789 --> 00:37:09.469 you'll love this. And if you don't enjoy Old 00:37:09.469 --> 00:37:11.230 Guard, you'll love this, because this is different 00:37:11.230 --> 00:37:15.780 enough. Absolutely, I mean especially with your 00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:18.760 kind of like insight into the family angle because 00:37:18.760 --> 00:37:20.920 so many mortality things like even an interview 00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:22.760 with a vampire it was dealing with like immortals 00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:24.760 in a like an individual basis where they have 00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:26.639 no one, everyone they know has died and they're 00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:28.900 just on their own for however many long until 00:37:28.900 --> 00:37:31.239 they convert people happily we discover someone 00:37:31.239 --> 00:37:34.139 else who is immortal. Whereas definitely I think 00:37:34.139 --> 00:37:36.880 yours as an immortal family is definitely the 00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:39.880 first. I could be wrong, people feel free to 00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:43.079 comment in and correct me. Yeah, and I think 00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:47.539 that's that's essential. That's such an essential 00:37:47.539 --> 00:37:50.599 part of your story. And yeah, I cannot wait to 00:37:50.599 --> 00:37:52.519 see where it goes next, because I'm pleased to 00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:54.860 tell you this is that Kill All The Models 2 is 00:37:54.860 --> 00:37:57.420 coming out soon. Yeah, we're doing a whole new 00:37:57.420 --> 00:38:01.139 season, so to speak. And it starts in October, 00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:05.260 just right around the corner. And I yeah, it's 00:38:05.260 --> 00:38:07.920 so good. I'm so excited. I'm so excited for everyone 00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:10.019 to check it out. We've already we're already 00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:13.679 deep in it. And But yeah, we're getting a chance 00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:15.320 to explain the world. If you've read the first 00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:17.420 one, you'll know exactly where we're going with 00:38:17.420 --> 00:38:19.280 it because there's a cliffhanger at the end of 00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.019 the first arc that tells you very clearly where 00:38:22.019 --> 00:38:24.860 we're going with it. But yeah, one thing that 00:38:24.860 --> 00:38:30.320 I've always, I got into comics about nine years 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:32.300 ago or so. And the first two series I worked 00:38:32.300 --> 00:38:36.739 on were, it was a two image. Pop Cal books. One 00:38:36.739 --> 00:38:39.039 was called Eclipse about a world with deadly, 00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:41.019 deadly sunlight. And the other one was called 00:38:41.019 --> 00:38:43.119 Port of Earth, which was what if aliens came 00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:44.940 not to blow us up, but with a business deal? 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:47.719 And those both found success. So I took those 00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:51.860 for several arcs. So I immediately began with 00:38:51.860 --> 00:38:54.820 what I consider longer form storytelling, where 00:38:54.820 --> 00:38:58.260 you're looking at characters for not just five 00:38:58.260 --> 00:38:59.860 issue mini series, but you're looking for them 00:38:59.860 --> 00:39:02.119 for one arc, two arcs, three arcs, four arcs. 00:39:02.139 --> 00:39:06.099 And what I love to do as a storyteller is make 00:39:06.099 --> 00:39:10.260 the emotional journey more complex. See how I 00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:14.119 can muck it up a bit and really test these characters. 00:39:14.340 --> 00:39:17.659 And so what's really fun, as much as we get to 00:39:17.659 --> 00:39:20.719 bring in more characters and I've eased more 00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:23.820 immortals and more world of immortals and all 00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:30.360 sorts of stuff like this, okay, Frey has made 00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:33.000 this big decision at the end of the first thing. 00:39:34.579 --> 00:39:37.179 And has she resolved everything or has she only 00:39:37.179 --> 00:39:40.420 opened up, you know, a can of worms? And how, 00:39:40.599 --> 00:39:45.119 how, and I guess who is she on her way to becoming? 00:39:45.260 --> 00:39:48.460 Is she on her way to becoming independent or 00:39:48.460 --> 00:39:50.659 dependent? Because you can't have agency in a 00:39:50.659 --> 00:39:53.119 situation and be independent. Those things are 00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:56.019 different. You can't change the world and be. 00:39:56.230 --> 00:39:58.809 your own person. You can't, I don't even know 00:39:58.809 --> 00:40:00.909 if you can change the world and maintain your 00:40:00.909 --> 00:40:04.690 ideals. And so, you know, can, we want to see 00:40:04.690 --> 00:40:07.989 her tear apart her father's kingdom and rebuild 00:40:07.989 --> 00:40:10.329 it in a sense of justice. And we want to see 00:40:10.329 --> 00:40:13.829 her right the world against any immortal foes. 00:40:13.929 --> 00:40:16.530 And we also want to see her have the opportunity 00:40:16.530 --> 00:40:19.409 to be a human being and to have her own feelings 00:40:19.409 --> 00:40:23.829 and live her own life. And those are two completely 00:40:23.829 --> 00:40:26.289 different objectives and I think it's really 00:40:26.289 --> 00:40:28.349 great when you have a story where your character 00:40:28.349 --> 00:40:30.829 has two things and you want them to have both 00:40:30.829 --> 00:40:33.010 and they can't have both and that that tears 00:40:33.010 --> 00:40:34.909 you up inside because you don't know what you 00:40:34.909 --> 00:40:38.090 want for them and you don't know what not only 00:40:38.090 --> 00:40:39.309 what are they going to get and what are they 00:40:39.309 --> 00:40:41.309 going to choose you know what if they betray 00:40:41.309 --> 00:40:42.829 what if they betray you what if you think they 00:40:42.829 --> 00:40:44.349 should have the first thing and then they choose 00:40:44.349 --> 00:40:47.110 to have the second thing you're like no you should 00:40:47.110 --> 00:40:49.610 have had the first thing so I really love to 00:40:49.789 --> 00:40:52.829 write a complex character story like that. And 00:40:52.829 --> 00:40:57.170 Frey's first chapter is the setup of that, and 00:40:57.170 --> 00:40:59.369 the second chapter gives us the opportunity to 00:40:59.369 --> 00:41:02.730 really say, you know, now that she's thrown her 00:41:02.730 --> 00:41:06.090 family into war with itself, and she's said maybe 00:41:06.090 --> 00:41:08.570 I want this agency and maybe I want this independence, 00:41:09.110 --> 00:41:11.349 what is she going to do when it comes down to 00:41:11.349 --> 00:41:14.150 they're against each other? And so I think that's 00:41:14.150 --> 00:41:18.710 very Viking. I think for a Viking, if you go 00:41:18.710 --> 00:41:22.530 back, you know, to women in the Viking times, 00:41:22.889 --> 00:41:26.710 did they want to be, you know, equals? That means 00:41:26.710 --> 00:41:29.230 they have to get, be killers too. They have to 00:41:29.230 --> 00:41:31.489 be in the battlefield too. You know, if they 00:41:31.489 --> 00:41:33.389 want to be removed from all that they can, but 00:41:33.389 --> 00:41:36.030 then they're giving up their power and agency 00:41:36.030 --> 00:41:40.309 in the society. And so it's this brutal this 00:41:40.309 --> 00:41:43.789 or that that is not fair, but it's the reality 00:41:43.789 --> 00:41:48.269 of, of living in a in a world of war so that's 00:41:48.269 --> 00:41:50.690 what i'm really excited but but the second season 00:41:50.690 --> 00:41:53.869 kicks ass and if you if you if you hear this 00:41:53.869 --> 00:41:56.630 and you love the idea of just seeing you know 00:41:56.630 --> 00:42:00.150 immortal vikings fighting and then having a complex 00:42:00.150 --> 00:42:03.110 character story underneath uh absolutely uh check 00:42:03.110 --> 00:42:05.630 out the new season in october from dark horse 00:42:05.630 --> 00:42:08.329 you can the best way to probably is to call any 00:42:08.329 --> 00:42:11.389 local comic book shop that is in your area and 00:42:11.389 --> 00:42:15.730 order it. Because if you're new to comics, the 00:42:15.730 --> 00:42:20.489 comic industry really lives on pre -orders. And 00:42:20.489 --> 00:42:24.809 so shops will order a certain amount, but most 00:42:24.809 --> 00:42:26.769 of those will get snatched up right away. So 00:42:26.769 --> 00:42:28.730 the best way is just to say, this sounds great, 00:42:28.730 --> 00:42:31.349 I want it. And you just call or email local shop 00:42:31.349 --> 00:42:33.489 and you pre -order it. And they will order the 00:42:33.489 --> 00:42:35.230 whole series for you. And then it'll be there 00:42:35.230 --> 00:42:38.760 waiting for you. And you just pick it up. More 00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:40.099 often than not if you're like, I'll go check 00:42:40.099 --> 00:42:42.840 it out when it comes out It may not be there 00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:44.739 and then you're waiting for the graphic novel 00:42:44.739 --> 00:42:46.880 if you want to read read right away month -to 00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:48.380 -month If you want to wait for the graphic novel 00:42:48.380 --> 00:42:51.239 graphic novel will be in bookstores comic shops 00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:56.059 online everywhere. Yes But you can't not wait 00:42:56.059 --> 00:42:59.179 because guys the covers coming out too are just 00:42:59.179 --> 00:43:01.840 stunning and they've actually got an Eisner winning 00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:09.019 artist now because she works with Thought Bubble 00:43:09.019 --> 00:43:10.920 Comic Con, which happens in Harrogate over here 00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:14.000 in the UK every November. So I know she's a big 00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:17.480 part of that team. That's a wonderful comic convention. 00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:19.480 So if you're in the UK and you love comics, go 00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:21.340 to Thought Bubble in November. You won't regret 00:43:21.340 --> 00:43:24.019 it. It's just three giant halls full of comic 00:43:24.019 --> 00:43:26.159 houses. I think she founded it or co -founded 00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:27.760 Thought Bubble. She probably did. She probably 00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:30.059 did. It's been around for longer than I've been 00:43:30.059 --> 00:43:34.099 going to. She's an amazing, she's an amazing, 00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:37.280 she's a writer and artist and a cover artist 00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:41.199 and an amazing comics person. And yeah, we were 00:43:41.199 --> 00:43:44.610 very fortunate to get her on a... Exclusive variant 00:43:44.610 --> 00:43:46.969 cover. So you absolutely if you want that cover 00:43:46.969 --> 00:43:49.309 on the on the new issue of killer mortals you 00:43:49.309 --> 00:43:51.570 have to call a shop and get them to get that 00:43:51.570 --> 00:43:54.150 for you because that's That'll be rare and exclusive. 00:43:54.309 --> 00:43:56.110 But she just won, just this past week, and she 00:43:56.110 --> 00:43:59.110 won the Eisner for best cover artist. So very 00:43:59.110 --> 00:44:02.289 excited to have her cover. And then we still 00:44:02.289 --> 00:44:04.590 have the A series of covers by Oliver Barrett. 00:44:04.750 --> 00:44:07.710 He did all the first arc series. So if you see 00:44:07.710 --> 00:44:09.969 the graphic novel, the series where the cover 00:44:09.969 --> 00:44:11.610 with Frey is sitting in the chair and bloods 00:44:11.610 --> 00:44:14.110 everywhere, he does the whole main cover series. 00:44:14.150 --> 00:44:15.909 And he's doing the whole main cover series for 00:44:15.909 --> 00:44:19.190 the second season. And then we've got a couple 00:44:19.190 --> 00:44:23.929 others. We've got... Oh, Matt Taylor, who I think 00:44:23.929 --> 00:44:27.789 might be another UK artist, but I'm not sure. 00:44:28.750 --> 00:44:32.469 But wherever he comes from, that's an amazing 00:44:32.469 --> 00:44:36.150 cover. And then John Jang is a real hot cover 00:44:36.150 --> 00:44:38.250 artist. He does a ton of shows here in the United 00:44:38.250 --> 00:44:40.690 States and we got one from him. So yes, really 00:44:40.690 --> 00:44:46.230 cool. However, just seeing Frey in more badass. 00:44:46.409 --> 00:44:51.280 I think when I took on, I mean, of all the books 00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:55.000 I've done, they've all been, most of them been 00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:57.599 miniseries. And I don't know that any have been 00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:01.559 this character, like this boom, like this character's 00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:05.159 on the thing. They've always usually been more 00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:07.719 world -based or other things. But this, I knew, 00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:10.639 I was like, this is a character vehicle, like 00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:15.119 phrase on almost all the covers, this is her. 00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:18.190 And so we really, it's like... when we looked 00:45:18.190 --> 00:45:19.849 at comps, we looked at like, well, it's kind 00:45:19.849 --> 00:45:21.889 of like Erica Slaughter, like, you know, we're 00:45:21.889 --> 00:45:23.530 walking the footsteps of something that's killing 00:45:23.530 --> 00:45:26.309 the children and a heroine that you really get 00:45:26.309 --> 00:45:28.690 attached to and you're compelled to watch their, 00:45:28.769 --> 00:45:31.070 to go along for the ride with their story. That's 00:45:31.070 --> 00:45:35.230 who this is about. We're a little different tonally 00:45:35.230 --> 00:45:38.190 in some ways, but I think at the end of the day, 00:45:38.730 --> 00:45:42.949 a complicated heroine character who's leading 00:45:42.949 --> 00:45:45.630 an action series like that was, you know, so 00:45:45.630 --> 00:45:49.440 it's been fun to see all the different shades 00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:52.739 of Frey on covers, because that's really the 00:45:52.739 --> 00:45:56.179 way you let readers know, if they're not reading 00:45:56.179 --> 00:45:59.940 the book, kind of who this is, you know. It's 00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:04.869 her photo shoot, so, you know. Well, I must admit, 00:46:05.030 --> 00:46:06.829 hours before we came on to do this recording, 00:46:06.929 --> 00:46:09.210 I was looking through my wonderful edition, although 00:46:09.210 --> 00:46:11.110 I have all the individual issues, but I had to 00:46:11.110 --> 00:46:12.829 get a graphic novel as well, just because funny 00:46:12.829 --> 00:46:15.710 can sit pretty on my shelf. And I think out of 00:46:15.710 --> 00:46:17.730 all the kind of like alternative covers, like 00:46:17.730 --> 00:46:20.489 the last one in the book by Skyler Partridge 00:46:20.489 --> 00:46:23.050 has to be my favorite, just with that kind of 00:46:23.050 --> 00:46:27.309 like split and the colors. If I could have that. 00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:30.000 In a frame I would I don't have a space alas 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:35.539 in my house to put it up, but I went on I think 00:46:35.539 --> 00:46:38.880 she's drawing some some dc maybe supergirl right 00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:42.260 now, but I've had a few covers by sky That's 00:46:42.260 --> 00:46:44.900 a fantastic one because it captures phrase duality 00:46:44.900 --> 00:46:47.519 and and you absolutely not only is not only is 00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:50.800 the strip clearly like the strip of a weapon 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:52.840 or something cutting through and it's blood red, 00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:55.719 but you see a different shade of her in the background. 00:46:56.260 --> 00:46:59.079 She's perceived as a kind of Viking identity. 00:46:59.179 --> 00:47:01.119 And then the front is a more modern identity 00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:04.139 and it's a colder identity. And so what is it? 00:47:04.139 --> 00:47:06.679 This is about the Viking identity bubbling out. 00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:08.980 And I think there's even like a cityscape, a 00:47:08.980 --> 00:47:12.320 modern sort of city map along the perimeter background. 00:47:12.579 --> 00:47:15.610 So yeah. I'm a big fan of, as you heard from 00:47:15.610 --> 00:47:19.210 the Capes and Tights podcast, a big fan of really 00:47:19.210 --> 00:47:22.369 being very thoughtful on cover. So, you know, 00:47:22.489 --> 00:47:25.730 trying to infuse as much storytelling into the 00:47:25.730 --> 00:47:29.050 cover as possible. So that one was an exceptional 00:47:29.050 --> 00:47:32.590 one by Sky, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're 00:47:32.590 --> 00:47:36.949 all sensational. I enjoyed that deep dive you 00:47:36.949 --> 00:47:38.809 took with the host of that podcast into kind 00:47:38.809 --> 00:47:41.130 of like... why comic covers you kind of have 00:47:41.130 --> 00:47:43.150 to judge a comic by its cover because it's such 00:47:43.150 --> 00:47:45.429 a visual medium whereas of course we always say 00:47:45.429 --> 00:47:47.070 that don't judge a book by its cover but with 00:47:47.070 --> 00:47:49.090 a comic you kind of have to because that's what 00:47:49.090 --> 00:47:51.889 pulls you in it's like an advert in itself. for 00:47:51.889 --> 00:47:55.750 itself. I still can't work out how on earth it 00:47:55.750 --> 00:48:00.809 came into my life but I'm so glad it did. I absolutely 00:48:00.809 --> 00:48:03.630 love it and I cannot wait to see what dangers 00:48:03.630 --> 00:48:11.150 you throw at Frey and her brothers next. I'll 00:48:11.150 --> 00:48:13.090 be sure to get you an advance copy so you can 00:48:13.090 --> 00:48:15.949 check it out for sure. Oh that's very kind of 00:48:15.949 --> 00:48:22.530 you Seth. Oh, well, thank you so much for coming 00:48:22.530 --> 00:48:25.409 on to my podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure 00:48:25.409 --> 00:48:28.590 and honor to just fangirl with you about your 00:48:28.590 --> 00:48:34.449 amazing work. I do a lot of podcasts, but anytime 00:48:34.449 --> 00:48:37.429 you take on something like Viking culture, for 00:48:37.429 --> 00:48:40.510 example, you're always wondering, am I doing 00:48:40.510 --> 00:48:43.710 this justice or am I totally butchering this? 00:48:44.369 --> 00:48:47.989 Are the Viking experts out there going to read 00:48:47.989 --> 00:48:51.139 this and go, Oh, no, Zach. What did you do here? 00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:54.900 So it's very complimentary and appreciated to 00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:58.219 hear that you are going, no, this is awesome. 00:48:58.980 --> 00:49:02.139 This kicks ass. You've done Vikings a good job. 00:49:02.579 --> 00:49:05.300 So thank you very much. I appreciate that. Oh, 00:49:05.340 --> 00:49:07.679 well, I'm no expert. I just love orphans. Yes, 00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:10.579 you are. You are. You're an expert, yes. You 00:49:10.579 --> 00:49:13.760 are. Okay, I will have that written on my staff 00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:19.960 badge. Thank you. Well, I know kind of like, 00:49:20.179 --> 00:49:22.320 obviously I do move in some academic circles 00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:24.440 and I know some academics, even running kind 00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:26.619 of like the Vikings, the original series was 00:49:26.619 --> 00:49:29.179 out, some of them applauded it, some of them 00:49:29.179 --> 00:49:31.639 are a bit dubious, but it's all a matter of interpretation 00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:34.380 because we do not know for sure what these people 00:49:34.380 --> 00:49:37.199 thought, said or did because all our sources 00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:39.579 are Christianized and written afterwards and 00:49:39.579 --> 00:49:41.559 they're all written from the point of view of 00:49:41.559 --> 00:49:43.760 them being the bad guys. Like just to go back 00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:45.739 to the earlier point about kind of like Vikings, 00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:48.179 always synonymous with kind of like barbarism 00:49:48.179 --> 00:49:51.059 and violence and kind of like kickassery. They 00:49:51.059 --> 00:49:52.960 weren't the most violent type of people around 00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:55.719 that age. The Anglo -Saxons were just as bloody, 00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:57.800 so were the kind of like the people in French 00:49:57.800 --> 00:49:59.860 and the Charlemagne, kind of like the whole medieval 00:49:59.860 --> 00:50:02.360 world was all at war with itself. I mean England 00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:05.019 of all people, we should know because we were 00:50:05.019 --> 00:50:07.000 tiny kingdoms feuding with each other before 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:10.780 we even agreed to get along. It's true. It's 00:50:10.780 --> 00:50:13.860 the reputation that they've gotten, and it's 00:50:13.860 --> 00:50:15.940 very hard to determine. And there's, for every 00:50:15.940 --> 00:50:19.780 Viking that is described as barbaric, there's 00:50:19.780 --> 00:50:22.280 a warrior of every other culture that is described 00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:31.699 as equally barbaric. But I by no means think 00:50:31.699 --> 00:50:35.780 that the Asvalds are representative of all Viking 00:50:35.780 --> 00:50:40.210 culture. They are merely a sliver of a family 00:50:40.210 --> 00:50:43.769 of Vikings that has now found themselves in our 00:50:43.769 --> 00:50:45.469 modern world. If anything, they're meant to be 00:50:45.469 --> 00:50:51.809 more representatives of billionaires. This is 00:50:51.809 --> 00:50:54.610 what I think of when I think of, and maybe there 00:50:54.610 --> 00:50:56.710 are some good billionaires out there and there 00:50:56.710 --> 00:50:59.889 are good billionaire families, but look, that's 00:50:59.889 --> 00:51:06.679 the thing. There's nuance to everything. But 00:51:06.679 --> 00:51:12.179 yeah, it's fun to explore the Viking aspect and 00:51:12.179 --> 00:51:16.059 the world of immortality as a form of billionaire 00:51:16.059 --> 00:51:22.300 class. Well, I will let you get back to your 00:51:22.300 --> 00:51:25.500 wonderful work. Thank you, everyone. And join 00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:27.619 us next month. Thank you very much, everyone. 00:51:27.980 --> 00:51:48.380 Thank you, Zach. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you 00:51:48.380 --> 00:51:51.820 very much for listening to this episode. I hope 00:51:51.820 --> 00:51:54.199 you enjoyed the discussions between my special 00:51:54.199 --> 00:51:57.840 guests and myself. Please do check out the episode 00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:00.179 blurb for links to their works and websites. 00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:03.179 If you liked this episode let me know by giving 00:52:03.179 --> 00:52:06.019 it a thumbs up. Let me know if you learned something 00:52:06.019 --> 00:52:09.119 new in the comments and of course click subscribe 00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:12.239 to Valhalla Conversations wherever you are listening 00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:15.920 or watching. This podcast can be watched on YouTube 00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:18.849 and YouTube Music. and it can also be listened 00:52:18.849 --> 00:52:23.050 to on Spotify, Amazon Music, Podcast Intex and 00:52:23.050 --> 00:52:27.110 on RSS .com. We hope you can join us in Valhalla 00:52:27.110 --> 00:52:29.369 again soon for more conversations.