WEBVTT

00:00:18.259 --> 00:00:21.519
Conversations podcast. I'm your host Becky Hill,

00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:24.699
otherwise known as Soul Chaser Becky and I am

00:00:24.699 --> 00:00:27.559
a proud Viking geek. I fell in love with the

00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:29.760
history, culture and mythology of the Viking

00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:32.299
Age and I have been on an endless quest for more

00:00:32.299 --> 00:00:36.439
ever since. Join me as I discuss all things North

00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:38.619
with those who have been inspired by Viking Age

00:00:38.619 --> 00:00:40.960
history and North mythology in their creative

00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:43.880
works or those who have studied the sagas and

00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:47.100
archaeology and review how such subjects are

00:00:46.859 --> 00:00:49.359
are being presented to modern audiences today.

00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:52.840
If you like Viking stuff, you are welcome in

00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:55.859
my Valhalla and I hope you stay for the conversation.

00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:14.400
Welcome everyone to Valhalla Conversations podcast

00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:18.200
episode 17. And my special guest this month,

00:01:18.219 --> 00:01:21.400
in the month of July, is the beautiful and wonderful

00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:25.700
Caitlin Felix, who is a debut author of this

00:01:25.700 --> 00:01:27.640
most fantastic novel. And if you're listening

00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:29.700
on Spotify, you really need to come over to YouTube

00:01:29.700 --> 00:01:31.519
so you can admire this most beautiful cover.

00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:34.519
I'm holding it up, she's holding it up. It's

00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:38.540
of a majestic, magnificent longship, entirely

00:01:38.540 --> 00:01:41.689
crude. by women. That's right people, you heard

00:01:41.689 --> 00:01:44.709
me. The women are bringing it home, they're knocking

00:01:44.709 --> 00:01:47.329
Uhtred out of his last kingdom and all sorts

00:01:47.329 --> 00:01:50.069
of other things. They're showing Ragnar Lothbrok

00:01:50.069 --> 00:01:53.329
how it's done because that is exactly how you've

00:01:53.329 --> 00:01:57.530
done, brilliantly. So Caitlin, I will stop fangirling.

00:01:57.650 --> 00:01:59.750
Please introduce yourself and of course your

00:01:59.750 --> 00:02:02.840
wonderful, wonderful book. Oh, thank you so much

00:02:02.840 --> 00:02:05.359
for having me here. I've been so excited to talk

00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:08.379
to you about all of this. And I just want to

00:02:08.379 --> 00:02:10.719
say thank you so much because you were an ARC

00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:14.599
reader and I really appreciate it. As well, your

00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:17.340
review for Rand's Daughters was incredible and

00:02:17.340 --> 00:02:19.860
like literally made my entire year. So thank

00:02:19.860 --> 00:02:24.479
you. Yeah, so my name is Caitlin Felix and my

00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:27.620
book Grands Daughters came out March 4th of this

00:02:27.620 --> 00:02:30.919
year and I am really excited to talk to you about

00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:37.289
it today. Because I loved it that much and I

00:02:37.289 --> 00:02:39.349
was one of the lucky few. We're lucky and high

00:02:39.349 --> 00:02:42.189
jar of her fellowship to read the book before

00:02:42.189 --> 00:02:43.949
it came out generally. I finished it in three

00:02:43.949 --> 00:02:46.349
days, ladies and gentlemen. It was that good.

00:02:46.710 --> 00:02:48.469
And it's been many years since I've read a book

00:02:48.469 --> 00:02:50.569
that quick and that intensely. I think since

00:02:50.569 --> 00:02:53.530
my Harry Potter days when I was a wee lass in

00:02:53.530 --> 00:02:58.330
my teenage years. But I'll read up the blurb

00:02:58.330 --> 00:03:01.949
to tempt readers and listeners into buying, downloading

00:03:01.949 --> 00:03:04.469
and of course... borrowing this book to all good

00:03:04.469 --> 00:03:07.830
libraries and bookshops. But then I'm going to

00:03:07.830 --> 00:03:10.530
shower them with the prologue because I absolutely

00:03:10.530 --> 00:03:13.909
adore the language in your prologue. It's everyone

00:03:13.909 --> 00:03:18.930
sitting comfortably. Rams Daughters. Ambition,

00:03:19.270 --> 00:03:23.870
greed and betrayal. Edda Fiskweef or Fiskwife.

00:03:24.030 --> 00:03:25.770
You can of course correct me on the pronunciation.

00:03:27.650 --> 00:03:30.250
I'm going to say fishwife because that's the

00:03:30.250 --> 00:03:33.280
anglicization. I can't even say the word. I am

00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:35.659
English, I assure you, but I just can't speak

00:03:35.659 --> 00:03:39.939
the language. Set sail to Al -Andalus with her

00:03:39.939 --> 00:03:42.580
misfit crew of women in pursuit of treasure and

00:03:42.580 --> 00:03:45.280
fame. And instead of gold, what awaits them is

00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:48.219
bloodshed and treachery. Snared in a twisted

00:03:48.219 --> 00:03:51.080
scheme, Gaida vows to reclaim all she has lost,

00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:54.599
her ship, her wealth and her crew. She will chase

00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:56.919
vengeance across the storm -lashed Irish Sea

00:03:56.919 --> 00:04:00.669
to the bustling trade hubs of Difflin. aka Dublin,

00:04:01.069 --> 00:04:04.610
and Jorvik, aka York, and ultimately to the frozen

00:04:04.610 --> 00:04:08.189
outposts of Iceland. Rand's Daughters is a saga

00:04:08.189 --> 00:04:11.229
of sea salt, blood and gold. Oh, what a beautiful

00:04:11.229 --> 00:04:14.409
tribute. A fierce and unyielding tale of 10th

00:04:14.409 --> 00:04:17.430
century Norse women who defy the odds and forge

00:04:17.430 --> 00:04:20.389
their own destiny in a world of violent men.

00:04:22.389 --> 00:04:25.829
I'm just going to swoon, give me a second. And

00:04:25.829 --> 00:04:27.709
that was just a blurb. You read that excellently.

00:04:27.930 --> 00:04:33.129
That was so full of drama. I loved it. It's amazing

00:04:33.129 --> 00:04:35.550
well written that blurb because I remember doing

00:04:35.550 --> 00:04:38.649
my creative writing course at uni and it was

00:04:38.649 --> 00:04:41.009
really hard to write a blurb for a whole level.

00:04:41.290 --> 00:04:44.290
It's ridiculously hard. It is. It is so hard.

00:04:44.589 --> 00:04:48.189
Oh my gosh. So Joshua Gillingham. So you've had

00:04:48.189 --> 00:04:51.370
him on your podcast before. He's an excellent

00:04:51.370 --> 00:04:55.290
creator. And he was also my editor for Rand's

00:04:55.290 --> 00:04:58.730
Daughters. And an amazing editor he is. But he

00:04:58.730 --> 00:05:01.910
and I went through this blurb at least 40 times.

00:05:02.089 --> 00:05:04.490
like tweaking it and perfecting it and we went

00:05:04.490 --> 00:05:06.850
back and forth and back and forth so many times

00:05:06.850 --> 00:05:09.370
and this was this was the final version that

00:05:09.370 --> 00:05:13.250
we were both kind of like maybe it's okay and

00:05:13.250 --> 00:05:15.509
it turned out to be better than we thought because

00:05:15.509 --> 00:05:18.810
i think we saw it too many times but uh yeah

00:05:18.810 --> 00:05:22.889
i have a lot of things to thank joshua for um

00:05:22.889 --> 00:05:25.009
but he is one of the masterminds behind this

00:05:25.009 --> 00:05:29.339
blurb Well I'm not surprised you said the word

00:05:29.339 --> 00:05:31.839
40 because that's one thing I learned to my English

00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:34.160
degree with creative writing courses that writing

00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:37.939
is all about rewriting and rewriting and rewriting

00:05:37.939 --> 00:05:41.019
and rewriting and eventually yes you do work

00:05:41.019 --> 00:05:44.319
out when to stop otherwise you just end up doing

00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:47.540
all the good that you think you've done but it's

00:05:47.540 --> 00:05:51.040
it's almost such a it's such a cycle of self

00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:52.600
-doubt, self -critique, you think, you know,

00:05:52.620 --> 00:05:54.300
that's not good enough. That's not good enough.

00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:57.480
Constantly. Constantly. And I have bad news.

00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:03.800
It never goes away. It never stops. Well I salute

00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:06.220
you because you've done it, you've written the

00:06:06.220 --> 00:06:08.360
book, you've got it published, you've been through

00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:10.519
the editing and you're out the other end so I

00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:13.839
salute you because I enjoyed it as a degree course

00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:16.040
because I liked having someone set me deadlines

00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:17.779
but then when there was no one to set me deadlines

00:06:17.779 --> 00:06:21.220
I just procrastinated and became, well, I continue

00:06:21.220 --> 00:06:23.120
to be a bookworm, always have been, but then

00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:25.540
I went into cosplaying for a couple of years

00:06:25.540 --> 00:06:28.240
and then Covid and motherhood came along so that

00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:34.089
was fun. And so here I am broadcasting. It's

00:06:34.089 --> 00:06:36.170
an adventure, that's what life is for, right?

00:06:36.990 --> 00:06:40.629
It is, it is. Well, again, the editing on this

00:06:40.629 --> 00:06:43.009
book is phenomenal because the language, it's

00:06:43.009 --> 00:06:46.889
just so immersive, so gripping, and it just echoes

00:06:46.889 --> 00:06:50.509
so strongly of the time. It really is up there

00:06:50.509 --> 00:06:52.670
with the levels of Giles Christian and Bernard

00:06:52.670 --> 00:06:54.470
Cornwall and all my other favorite historical

00:06:54.470 --> 00:06:57.370
authors. You are among many on my bookshelf.

00:06:58.389 --> 00:07:02.540
Oh, thank you. That's hugely flattering. Both

00:07:02.540 --> 00:07:04.259
of those authors that you mentioned are some

00:07:04.259 --> 00:07:06.600
of my all -time favourites, particularly Giles

00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:13.639
Christian. So, thank you. Well, I will continue

00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:15.959
to spoil our viewers and listeners, if you'll

00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:17.660
permit me dear viewers and listeners of course,

00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:21.459
the prologue. It's only a page a little bit,

00:07:21.459 --> 00:07:23.560
but it's the most beautiful, beautiful prologue.

00:07:23.930 --> 00:07:27.069
It begins, it is well known that when a child

00:07:27.069 --> 00:07:29.670
on the shore waves to their parents as they stand

00:07:29.670 --> 00:07:32.470
in the beast's prow of a ship of oak, journeying

00:07:32.470 --> 00:07:35.209
from the home fjord to a far land and plunder

00:07:35.209 --> 00:07:38.589
beyond reckoning, that child goes away from the

00:07:38.589 --> 00:07:41.550
sight wishing to one day sail the swan road after

00:07:41.550 --> 00:07:45.329
them. Often they do, still more often they die

00:07:45.329 --> 00:07:50.519
in the doing. Just brilliant. And thus it should

00:07:50.519 --> 00:07:52.980
also be known that such aspiring sea striders

00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:56.560
must learn. Cracked hands and sun -baked skin

00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:59.360
teach a lesson of how salt and heat can dry you

00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:02.399
like jerky and kill if left too long without

00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.920
fresh water. broken backs and snapped oars teach

00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:08.439
how the god Njord wrestles with the rowers hoping

00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:11.899
to drown them. Thus muscles must strengthen until

00:08:11.899 --> 00:08:14.579
arms and necks are as corded as the ropes that

00:08:14.579 --> 00:08:17.339
lash the sail and until the whole of the vessel

00:08:17.339 --> 00:08:19.860
cuts through waves like a thief's knife through

00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:23.399
purse strings. The most important lesson a child

00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:26.620
must learn before anything else is that an ocean

00:08:26.620 --> 00:08:30.399
storm can be worse than battle, worse than standing

00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:32.919
in a broken shield wall with your closest kin

00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:36.259
bleeding and dying on either side, worse even

00:08:36.259 --> 00:08:38.759
than the splitting, gushing death of mothers

00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:42.220
when a babe comes too early or too swiftly, worse

00:08:42.220 --> 00:08:45.200
still than drowning in a river after falling

00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:48.120
out of a fishing boat, for though that is a straw

00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:50.820
death. the drowned can still claim the simple

00:08:50.820 --> 00:08:54.460
glory of the desire to feed their families. But

00:08:54.460 --> 00:08:57.720
drowning in a storm is not glorious. It is the

00:08:57.720 --> 00:09:00.559
way to be forgotten. But who will remember the

00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:03.399
drowned? There are so many it would take a scowled

00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:06.399
endless nights to recite them all. There are

00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:09.720
no sagas of drowned sailors. But what child thinks

00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:13.870
of that? Sometimes a few hardened voyages return

00:09:13.870 --> 00:09:16.590
to the home fjord with tales of adventure, of

00:09:16.590 --> 00:09:19.129
the letting of blood and of bright shining silver,

00:09:19.629 --> 00:09:22.190
and those are the tales that are most dangerous.

00:09:22.789 --> 00:09:26.110
But children will dream despite the danger, and

00:09:26.110 --> 00:09:30.490
dreams of that kind do not fade with time. It

00:09:30.490 --> 00:09:33.330
had proved thus for Gaida Fishwife years before,

00:09:33.610 --> 00:09:36.490
when she had been that child waving to a parent

00:09:36.490 --> 00:09:39.860
who never came home. So it would prove again

00:09:39.860 --> 00:09:43.100
for years onward until the burning of the world

00:09:43.100 --> 00:09:48.000
at Ragnarok. Random applause, everyone. Caitlin's

00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:51.379
words. Caitlin's words are so beautiful. Oh,

00:09:51.379 --> 00:09:56.399
you read that beautifully. It's just so evocative.

00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:59.200
I absolutely loved it. It was like being sat

00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:02.419
to a, next sat to a scald of the modern day,

00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:06.139
if not the medieval era itself. It's just beautiful.

00:10:06.760 --> 00:10:09.940
Beautiful, and it makes people want to buy and

00:10:09.940 --> 00:10:13.179
read it well. Go re -listen to it, my magic will

00:10:13.179 --> 00:10:19.700
work. Oh, thank you so much. You're welcome.

00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:22.480
Thank you for letting me indulge myself as a

00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:26.399
fangirl and just lover of your absolutely beautiful,

00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:30.360
magnificent work. I'm so proud for you, even

00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:32.580
though I didn't have anything to do with it.

00:10:32.659 --> 00:10:34.820
I'm just so proud for you because it's so well

00:10:34.820 --> 00:10:37.419
done. Absolutely wonderful. So I guess we should

00:10:37.419 --> 00:10:39.759
start at the beginning, really. And where did

00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:43.759
the idea for this magnificent tale come from?

00:10:44.580 --> 00:10:48.519
Oh, OK. So you did have, as I mentioned before,

00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:51.000
you did have Joshua Gillingham on your show before.

00:10:51.379 --> 00:10:54.500
And he spoke about his works. And I'm pretty

00:10:54.500 --> 00:10:59.559
sure he mentioned his all thingy work. And so.

00:10:59.820 --> 00:11:04.000
My story with Geeta and her daughters and Rand's

00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:07.159
daughters started in this anthology, which ties

00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:11.240
into the All -Thingy board game, all produced

00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:14.480
and published by Outland Entertainment. So my

00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:18.360
short story was titled Wave Runners, and it was

00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:20.960
there that we first met Geeta and her daughters.

00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:23.960
And it was a very short story. I had a lot of

00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:28.580
fun writing it. It came out, I think, in... 2019

00:11:28.580 --> 00:11:32.799
or 2020? I could be wrong, but it came out probably

00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:36.820
around COVID time, and it got some pretty good

00:11:36.820 --> 00:11:39.799
reviews, including from the Brothers Gwyn, who

00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:42.960
I would love if they wanted to read Grands Daughters

00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:46.970
once. because they mentioned they mentioned my

00:11:46.970 --> 00:11:49.470
story in their video which for me at the time

00:11:49.470 --> 00:11:51.649
you know just beginning to publish some of my

00:11:51.649 --> 00:11:55.330
work it was huge. So it got some positive reviews

00:11:55.330 --> 00:11:59.169
which was really lovely and eventually in 2021

00:11:59.169 --> 00:12:02.409
Joshua contacted me and he asked me if I wanted

00:12:02.409 --> 00:12:05.889
to write a sequel and we talked about it and

00:12:05.889 --> 00:12:09.269
the publisher wanted a full -length sequel and

00:12:09.269 --> 00:12:14.070
so Rand's Daughters was born. And I started writing.

00:12:14.950 --> 00:12:18.470
I had just finished writing another book, which

00:12:18.470 --> 00:12:21.610
I am actually just starting to go back and edit.

00:12:21.690 --> 00:12:25.570
It's been four years now, but I had just finished

00:12:25.570 --> 00:12:28.990
it. I was already a little bit burnt out. It

00:12:28.990 --> 00:12:31.750
was during, you know, lockdown and stuff here

00:12:31.750 --> 00:12:34.610
in Switzerland. So I didn't have a lot to do

00:12:34.610 --> 00:12:37.820
other than to be at my desk and write. So I started

00:12:37.820 --> 00:12:40.659
writing it, started outlining it, was in contact

00:12:40.659 --> 00:12:43.779
with Joshua quite a lot in that time. And then

00:12:43.779 --> 00:12:47.220
right after I sprained both my ankles at the

00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:51.860
same time. Oh, gosh. So, and it was a really,

00:12:51.860 --> 00:12:55.139
really silly injury, but it gave me quite a lot

00:12:55.139 --> 00:12:59.399
of time to sit and brainstorm and get a good

00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:05.870
chunk of the book written as I was healing. Blimey.

00:13:07.350 --> 00:13:10.250
Well, I'm glad it proved a big distraction from

00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:12.649
the pain and discomfort because that must have

00:13:12.649 --> 00:13:14.750
been really uncomfortable to let them both rest

00:13:14.750 --> 00:13:17.750
and heal up because I've only ever sprained my

00:13:17.750 --> 00:13:20.809
ankle once and that was skipping down three steps

00:13:20.809 --> 00:13:23.629
whilst on a family holiday in Crete. I don't

00:13:23.629 --> 00:13:25.490
know how, I just do it because I'm just really

00:13:25.490 --> 00:13:29.129
clumsy. I tried walking on it for a bit afterwards

00:13:29.129 --> 00:13:31.279
and this was at the start of a trek walk. So

00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:33.379
in the end I had to stay on the bus and the driver

00:13:33.379 --> 00:13:36.539
took me up and down all these hairpin roads to

00:13:36.539 --> 00:13:38.620
the end whilst I waited for everyone else to

00:13:38.620 --> 00:13:42.039
finish the walk. Oh my gosh, that's a story in

00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:49.559
itself. It's just me, naturally clumsy. But I'm

00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:52.820
glad, in a way, that, A, Joshua saw something

00:13:52.820 --> 00:13:55.240
in that story, and as well as the people at Outland

00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:57.500
Entertainment for thinking, yes, there's something

00:13:57.500 --> 00:14:00.460
here, there's gold to be found here, this lady

00:14:00.460 --> 00:14:03.279
can just write some more. And I'm so glad you

00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:08.539
did, so glad you did. For those of our readers

00:14:08.539 --> 00:14:11.559
and listeners who, and viewers, well, they should

00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:13.240
be readers, they will be readers by the end of

00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:18.480
this episode, I will. see to it. Who haven't

00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:20.919
come across the old thingy, the Crescent and

00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:23.679
the Northern Star anthology with the ultimately

00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:25.659
prequel, as I guess you could call it, short

00:14:25.659 --> 00:14:28.299
story in there. Yes. Caitlin's holding it on

00:14:28.299 --> 00:14:31.039
screen. Do look it up, it's on Outlander Entertainment.

00:14:31.740 --> 00:14:35.100
Would you mind giving them a brief overcap of

00:14:35.100 --> 00:14:39.899
what happens in that short story? Sure, so The

00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:41.559
Crescent and the Northern Star, the title of

00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:45.440
this anthology, gives a little bit of a context

00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:48.399
of what these stories are about. It's a collection

00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:52.200
from, I think, 13 other authors, maybe 12, some

00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:55.399
of whom are good friends, like Genevieve Gornicek,

00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:57.799
who you also just had on the podcast. She is

00:14:57.799 --> 00:15:03.419
wonderful. So these stories tell about characters

00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:08.740
in the board game who are Jarls in the context

00:15:08.740 --> 00:15:13.039
of the board game, but it's all about how the

00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.820
Viking world and the Muslim peoples and the cultures

00:15:16.820 --> 00:15:20.200
and the Arabic cultures intersected in the Viking

00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:22.899
age or the early medieval period and how there

00:15:22.899 --> 00:15:29.539
was this exchange of goods and merchants and

00:15:29.539 --> 00:15:32.500
language and religion and culture, all of this

00:15:32.500 --> 00:15:35.929
exchange between these two. you know, very large

00:15:35.929 --> 00:15:39.269
people groups and how, you know, travel was a

00:15:39.269 --> 00:15:42.950
lot more far extending, I think, than a lot of

00:15:42.950 --> 00:15:45.549
pop culture nowadays, you know, tends to make

00:15:45.549 --> 00:15:49.110
us believe. And so these stories all had to do

00:15:49.110 --> 00:15:52.149
with that. How did Vikings come into contact

00:15:52.149 --> 00:15:57.549
with Arabic or Muslim Islamic cultures and peoples?

00:15:58.009 --> 00:16:01.970
So my story was about Gita and her daughters

00:16:01.970 --> 00:16:06.970
and how they find a stowaway in their ship. And

00:16:06.970 --> 00:16:10.690
this stowaway is running away because of the

00:16:10.690 --> 00:16:14.909
death of their lover, who was an emissary of

00:16:14.909 --> 00:16:20.049
the emir in Al -Andalus or Cordoba at the time.

00:16:21.029 --> 00:16:24.509
So all of the shenanigans that come with that.

00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:28.360
So Rand's Daughters is a following on on this

00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:32.080
story, the fallout of what happens in the short

00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:34.500
story, which the short story you can find in

00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:36.480
the anthology, but I've also gotten permission

00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:40.440
from Outland to post it on my website. katiefelix

00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:42.899
.com you can find it there and read it there

00:16:42.899 --> 00:16:45.720
if anyone wants that context before they read

00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:49.460
Rand's Daughters. A few people have told me that

00:16:49.460 --> 00:16:52.039
they appreciated being able to have that context

00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:56.039
before they dived in to Rand's Daughters. Without

00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:00.519
giving too many spoilers, Geeta commits an act

00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:05.559
that will follow her for the rest of Rand's Daughters

00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:13.099
and causes quite a lot of drama. Not the smartest

00:17:13.099 --> 00:17:19.119
decision of hers, but she stands by it. She is

00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:25.359
quite a character. She's got the recognizable

00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:28.759
almost stubbornness that readers might be familiar

00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:32.539
with of Uhtred, of Bebenberg from Bernard Cornel's

00:17:32.539 --> 00:17:37.039
Uhtred, The Last Kingdom series. She's got the

00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:38.880
defiance, the bravery, but also a bit of the

00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.960
cunning to get through all the scrapes that she

00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:45.640
gets into, either from her own making or from

00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.420
people trying to deliberately ensnare her and

00:17:48.420 --> 00:17:52.660
trap her and almost make her into the women figure

00:17:52.660 --> 00:17:54.839
that most people think of when they think of

00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:57.519
Vikings and that they're often the home keeper,

00:17:58.059 --> 00:18:00.220
the wife, the wife of the farmer, the wife of

00:18:00.220 --> 00:18:03.680
the fisherman. She is indeed known as fish wife

00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:08.700
or fish quiff. mid -old north to a degree, but

00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:16.259
she has a strong trading network and knowledge

00:18:16.259 --> 00:18:20.160
and experience because even in her initial short

00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:23.079
story she's there trading I believe, is she not?

00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:26.059
So she's interested because not many people think

00:18:26.059 --> 00:18:29.599
of women traders. both kind of like on a long

00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:31.900
ship as she is beautifully depicted on the front

00:18:31.900 --> 00:18:33.700
cover because they need ships to get the goods

00:18:33.700 --> 00:18:36.119
from A to B and Jorvik to Dublin and everywhere

00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:39.000
else in between but also kind of like at the

00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.579
marketplace because I know even in the Jorvik

00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:44.799
Viking Museum and it's a ride I've been on many

00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:49.359
many times, too many to count, I don't think

00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:54.839
there is a female trader in their little street.

00:18:54.990 --> 00:18:57.710
market setup. I think it's mostly men. I know

00:18:57.710 --> 00:18:59.829
there is a woman there but she's a buyer because

00:18:59.829 --> 00:19:02.269
she's holding a baby in her arms but there's

00:19:02.269 --> 00:19:04.950
not any other representation of women as traders

00:19:04.950 --> 00:19:07.430
which is an interesting and I think possibly

00:19:07.430 --> 00:19:12.529
an overlooked area of kind of the whole gender

00:19:12.529 --> 00:19:15.769
lens that we have as 21st century versus the

00:19:15.769 --> 00:19:19.210
medieval era where we don't know precisely what

00:19:19.210 --> 00:19:21.789
happened. So I like how you've kind of lifted

00:19:21.789 --> 00:19:24.869
the lid on that and said look. they could do

00:19:24.869 --> 00:19:27.690
this it could have happened it quite practically

00:19:27.690 --> 00:19:32.630
works in so many ways yeah it's a it's a really

00:19:32.630 --> 00:19:37.849
keen observation so in history itself i wouldn't

00:19:37.849 --> 00:19:42.630
say that there is any like equivalent um to gita

00:19:42.630 --> 00:19:46.589
and her daughters but there were definitely figures

00:19:46.589 --> 00:19:49.289
like female figures that are adventurers, that

00:19:49.289 --> 00:19:53.869
are traders, or could be seen as having that

00:19:53.869 --> 00:19:57.940
sort of influence and power. And I mean, as you

00:19:57.940 --> 00:20:00.119
know, I've heard you speak about this before,

00:20:00.140 --> 00:20:02.859
how women had a lot more freedoms than we think

00:20:02.859 --> 00:20:05.119
they did, especially in pop culture nowadays,

00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:09.180
movies and, you know, the accepted interpretation

00:20:09.180 --> 00:20:11.700
of history. But that's all being turned on its

00:20:11.700 --> 00:20:15.640
head now with archaeology and all of these discoveries

00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:20.200
and new scholarship and even gender expression,

00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:24.680
how all of these things that we had previously

00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:28.930
believed. is being turned on its head, or at

00:20:28.930 --> 00:20:30.950
least there's new perspectives and new voices

00:20:30.950 --> 00:20:32.990
coming out within the scholarship itself and

00:20:32.990 --> 00:20:35.329
within archaeology itself. And that for me is

00:20:35.329 --> 00:20:39.329
really exciting, especially as someone who enjoys

00:20:39.329 --> 00:20:44.509
archaeology. I don't have a degree in it, I haven't

00:20:44.509 --> 00:20:46.930
studied it, but it's something that I kind of

00:20:46.930 --> 00:20:50.220
follow along as a hobby, as an amateur. armchair

00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:52.779
archaeologist. And that was what kind of drew

00:20:52.779 --> 00:20:55.799
me a lot to some of the things in the book, a

00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:59.480
lot of the material culture itself and how we

00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:02.059
can look at these women in history, real women

00:21:02.059 --> 00:21:04.920
in history, not just these fictional characters,

00:21:05.059 --> 00:21:07.500
but real women in history and kind of reinterpret

00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:12.700
their lives. And it's important not to look at

00:21:12.700 --> 00:21:16.720
history and create our own interpretation colored

00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:21.049
by a modern lens. So there were certainly hard

00:21:21.049 --> 00:21:26.269
things in the past. It wasn't ideal. We can talk

00:21:26.269 --> 00:21:29.450
about it and study it, but we should also remember

00:21:29.450 --> 00:21:32.609
that Vikings were considered violent. These Norse

00:21:32.609 --> 00:21:35.890
peoples and many other people groups were violent

00:21:35.890 --> 00:21:40.829
and they did bad things, but they were also merchants

00:21:40.829 --> 00:21:43.509
and they were also people, just people, humanity.

00:21:44.130 --> 00:21:46.250
And humanity is the same throughout all the centuries.

00:21:47.690 --> 00:21:50.910
That's a very, very good point. And I know when

00:21:50.910 --> 00:21:55.849
I did get to the end of the book in your acknowledgments,

00:21:55.890 --> 00:21:58.329
I believe it was a professor to do with Dublin

00:21:58.329 --> 00:22:00.930
or Ireland at the very least that you. Yes. Thanks

00:22:00.930 --> 00:22:03.049
a lot for helping with your research. So tell

00:22:03.049 --> 00:22:05.930
us more about how much research and what your

00:22:05.930 --> 00:22:08.650
research journey was like preparing for this.

00:22:09.369 --> 00:22:14.210
I love the question about research. So right

00:22:14.210 --> 00:22:18.420
at the beginning, I had contacted the amazing

00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:21.960
Professor Claire Downham and she is wonderful

00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:24.720
and so generous with her time and her knowledge.

00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:28.180
I had been looking for you know, information

00:22:28.180 --> 00:22:30.940
on the lives of women in the early Viking age,

00:22:31.019 --> 00:22:33.819
particularly in Dublin. And this is one of her,

00:22:33.819 --> 00:22:37.079
I guess, specialty areas. And I couldn't find

00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:40.339
a lot of that sort of research when I did my

00:22:40.339 --> 00:22:43.519
searches in the books that I own or the scholarly

00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:47.220
papers that I looked up online. There were very

00:22:47.220 --> 00:22:50.460
particular details that I wanted to make sure

00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:54.039
I got right. I have like a stack of like 30 research

00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:58.009
books. that I had been using also for my previous

00:22:58.009 --> 00:23:00.250
book, which is also set in the 10th century,

00:23:00.329 --> 00:23:06.490
early 10th century Jorvik. So I had a lot of

00:23:06.490 --> 00:23:09.490
material to draw from, but for some reason that

00:23:09.490 --> 00:23:13.089
one specific area was lacking. So I contacted

00:23:13.089 --> 00:23:15.730
Professor Claire Downham and she was so generous

00:23:15.730 --> 00:23:18.009
with her time and her research and pointed me

00:23:18.009 --> 00:23:21.329
in the right directions. So I had to make sure

00:23:21.329 --> 00:23:23.470
that I acknowledged her in the back because it

00:23:23.470 --> 00:23:26.450
was because of her that kind of opened the door

00:23:26.450 --> 00:23:30.130
to the rest of the research that really made

00:23:30.130 --> 00:23:34.250
this world feel real, at least while I was writing

00:23:34.250 --> 00:23:39.069
it. And I think it paid off. It is incredible.

00:23:40.390 --> 00:23:45.190
And I must ask because the characters and of

00:23:45.190 --> 00:23:48.250
course, Dida and her daughters, as she calls

00:23:48.250 --> 00:23:50.309
them, which are the other women that she's basically

00:23:50.309 --> 00:23:54.589
recruited through time and fortune and just chants

00:23:54.589 --> 00:23:59.670
onto her crew of her trading vessel. They travel

00:23:59.670 --> 00:24:02.450
up and down left and right over the spiking age

00:24:02.450 --> 00:24:05.069
world. They kind of like they go to the Middle

00:24:05.069 --> 00:24:07.630
East and they come back and they go to Jorvik

00:24:07.630 --> 00:24:10.059
and then they go to Dublin and they're I think

00:24:10.059 --> 00:24:12.680
they ultimately end, I think the big climatic

00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:14.380
point is at the Isle of Man and then they go

00:24:14.380 --> 00:24:16.960
up to near Scotland as well and of course you've

00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:20.240
got quite a nice good few chapters set in Viking

00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:22.279
Ice Dublin which many people might not be familiar

00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:26.720
with because of course Ireland was a hive of

00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:30.099
Viking activity. They got involved in Irish politics

00:24:30.099 --> 00:24:32.619
and land and kings as much as they did with the

00:24:32.619 --> 00:24:34.440
English but of course we English don't think

00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:36.480
of that part, we just think of us and then everything

00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:39.700
else East. No, they were very much an island.

00:24:39.980 --> 00:24:44.500
So did you almost have to have a route in your

00:24:44.500 --> 00:24:47.099
head as to where Gidea was going to go and then

00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:49.940
research those bits, or did the story take you

00:24:49.940 --> 00:24:52.720
there first and then you had to research? I'm

00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.519
just trying to unpick how on earth you wove such

00:24:55.519 --> 00:25:02.220
a beautiful tale. Yes, so it was sort of, it

00:25:02.220 --> 00:25:04.640
took me along the journey as I wrote it. I did

00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:08.099
have an idea of where I wanted Gita and the daughters

00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:11.019
to go. I did know I wanted to end up in Iceland

00:25:11.019 --> 00:25:14.960
to tie in with the all -thingy board game because

00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.500
in the board game Gita is a is a ruler in the

00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:21.640
game. And so that needed to happen. I knew that

00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:24.160
that needed to happen. However, I also wanted

00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:28.039
it to continue and to have consistency with the

00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:30.339
short story that I wrote. And in the short story,

00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:33.200
they are sailing to a land to lose or modern

00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:36.700
day Spain and Portugal. And so I wanted to start

00:25:36.700 --> 00:25:40.599
off there as kind of that continuation and to

00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:43.180
follow the consequences of her actions at the

00:25:43.180 --> 00:25:46.789
end of that short story. And so I knew I needed

00:25:46.789 --> 00:25:49.549
to do that and I knew the next stop would be

00:25:49.549 --> 00:25:52.140
Difflin or Dublin. and I didn't know how much

00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:54.480
time we would spend there. So that was kind of

00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:58.900
a surprise as I got to that part where Gita must

00:25:58.900 --> 00:26:02.660
leave Difflin and she goes to Jorvik and for

00:26:02.660 --> 00:26:04.759
me that was kind of a welcome surprise because

00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:08.960
I had done so much research on Jorvik and Northumbria

00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:11.640
in the 10th century, particularly the early 10th

00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:14.519
century while I was writing my previous book,

00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:18.460
so that I felt familiar with it. It felt like

00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:21.630
going into the familiar waters, so to speak.

00:26:22.750 --> 00:26:25.210
So it was a welcome surprise, but what I didn't

00:26:25.210 --> 00:26:29.289
expect was to go on to the Isle of Man, because

00:26:29.289 --> 00:26:32.009
I have never visited, I didn't know much about

00:26:32.009 --> 00:26:35.869
it. In the terms of my research, you know...

00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:40.319
Ireland and the Danelaw in England, the Isle

00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:43.099
of Man, Scotland, all of these lands were so

00:26:43.099 --> 00:26:46.500
interconnected with trade, sometimes even sharing

00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:50.019
kings. There was a lot of turnover with kings

00:26:50.019 --> 00:26:53.640
and rulers and yarls and all of that. So it was

00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:56.759
a lot of fun delving into that research and into

00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:59.740
the real history, but also getting to know these

00:26:59.740 --> 00:27:03.579
places, which was also sort of difficult not

00:27:03.579 --> 00:27:06.440
being able to visit these places in person. I

00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:09.200
have been to Jorvik or I've been to York and

00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:11.680
I visited the the Jorvik Viking Museum which

00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:14.440
was so much fun and so excellent and I can't

00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:17.579
wait to go back again. I've never been to Dublin

00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:19.779
and that's a place that I've always dreamed of

00:27:19.779 --> 00:27:23.579
going so I had to really figure out a way of

00:27:23.579 --> 00:27:26.240
like putting myself there in my mind and not

00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:28.619
only that but to go back in time and put myself

00:27:28.619 --> 00:27:33.690
there and I really wanted to reflect that I wanted

00:27:33.690 --> 00:27:37.430
these places to feel real to the reader. And

00:27:37.430 --> 00:27:40.990
some of the feedback I've gotten is that they

00:27:40.990 --> 00:27:43.529
really felt like they were in these places, which

00:27:43.529 --> 00:27:48.670
for me is a huge compliment. I wanted to feel

00:27:48.670 --> 00:27:50.970
like I was really there and that these characters

00:27:50.970 --> 00:27:54.849
were feeling and seeing presumably what could

00:27:54.849 --> 00:28:00.049
be there. So yeah, it was a really fun part of

00:28:00.049 --> 00:28:02.380
writing the book. getting to go to all of these

00:28:02.380 --> 00:28:04.200
different places. Some of it was known and some

00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:08.339
of it was a surprise. Well there's one scene

00:28:08.339 --> 00:28:11.740
that always sticks in my head from Edith's time

00:28:11.740 --> 00:28:16.480
in Dublin which is where she's waking up from

00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:19.740
what can be described as a Viking Age hangover

00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:22.980
of sorts and she notices like there's a hole

00:28:22.980 --> 00:28:25.440
in her daub and wattle wall which is like oh

00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.160
that's another thing I need to pen. I'm like

00:28:27.369 --> 00:28:30.609
oh my gosh that must be so unbearable for vikings

00:28:30.609 --> 00:28:32.289
to wake up with it oh my gosh i went to patch

00:28:32.289 --> 00:28:34.630
the wall again and get the cow done got to get

00:28:34.630 --> 00:28:38.009
the straw got to mash it all up and i think kind

00:28:38.009 --> 00:28:39.970
of like it's almost like me waking up and thinking

00:28:39.970 --> 00:28:42.130
oh i've got that to wash and that's put away

00:28:42.130 --> 00:28:45.970
and that's hoover and i'm like i could relate

00:28:45.970 --> 00:28:50.789
but it just it it brought the humanity as you

00:28:50.789 --> 00:28:53.829
said from the start through in that time and

00:28:53.829 --> 00:28:58.539
setting and it we are human and Of course, you've

00:28:58.539 --> 00:29:03.319
got such a beautiful, diverse array cast of characters,

00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:10.220
of ethnicities, of nationalities, ranks, you've

00:29:10.220 --> 00:29:13.799
got kings, you've got princes, you've got girls,

00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:18.759
you've got sons of people that keep causing problems

00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:20.980
and I'm trying not to talk too much about this.

00:29:23.089 --> 00:29:25.569
You've also got, I mean, I'm fascinated about

00:29:25.569 --> 00:29:28.289
the member of the crew and I'm going to apologize,

00:29:28.470 --> 00:29:30.890
I can't remember her name, but I know she uses

00:29:30.890 --> 00:29:34.329
what we would call sign language because she

00:29:34.329 --> 00:29:37.430
is mute. How did he decide to have that character

00:29:37.430 --> 00:29:41.049
involved? Because a wonderful representation

00:29:41.049 --> 00:29:44.690
because we often think of that mutism and deafness

00:29:44.690 --> 00:29:48.650
is quite kind of like a 18th century onwards

00:29:48.650 --> 00:29:50.829
type thing, but it must have been around for

00:29:51.490 --> 00:29:53.190
generations before then and we wouldn't even

00:29:53.190 --> 00:29:54.990
know what the Shakespearean people did in Shakespeare's

00:29:54.990 --> 00:29:57.869
time, let alone in the Viking Age world where

00:29:57.869 --> 00:30:03.170
medicine was not a thing. Yes, yes. So this for

00:30:03.170 --> 00:30:08.190
me was a really important description or presentation

00:30:08.190 --> 00:30:13.069
and representation. So, you know, Leoden is how

00:30:13.069 --> 00:30:15.549
I pronounce her name. I don't know if it's correct

00:30:15.549 --> 00:30:18.109
because she is an Irish woman. She's a former

00:30:18.109 --> 00:30:22.410
enslaved person. And her mutism comes about due

00:30:22.410 --> 00:30:27.470
to a traumatic injury that her previous enslaver

00:30:27.470 --> 00:30:33.470
inflicted upon her. So while I was writing her,

00:30:34.170 --> 00:30:37.609
I kind of struggled with how do I depict her

00:30:37.609 --> 00:30:41.910
use of signs in a historically accurate way.

00:30:42.579 --> 00:30:45.140
And at the day that I was writing this, I was

00:30:45.140 --> 00:30:46.859
actually with a really good friend of mine who

00:30:46.859 --> 00:30:49.140
is a children's author. Her name is Louise Gooding,

00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:51.940
and she now lives in the UK, but previously she

00:30:51.940 --> 00:30:55.099
had been living in Switzerland. And she's an

00:30:55.099 --> 00:30:57.519
incredible author. But we were writing together,

00:30:57.559 --> 00:31:00.279
we were doing sprints, and I kind of bounced

00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:03.920
it off her because she's a very vocal advocate

00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:08.160
for neurodiversity and disability representation.

00:31:09.740 --> 00:31:12.660
He's excellent. So I asked her, you know, what,

00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:15.960
what, how could I do this in a way that was,

00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:19.480
you know, both historically accurate, but also

00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:22.480
depicting it in a, in a real way. I didn't want

00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:24.220
to make it a caricature. I didn't want to make

00:31:24.220 --> 00:31:27.420
it, you know, a token character. Uh, she doesn't

00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:29.859
get a lot of screen time, so to speak, in the

00:31:29.859 --> 00:31:32.480
short story. Um, and I wanted her to kind of

00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.220
take a little bit more precedence, just like

00:31:34.220 --> 00:31:36.460
every other character in, in Rand's Daughters.

00:31:37.099 --> 00:31:40.539
Um, the, the female crew, each each woman gets

00:31:40.539 --> 00:31:42.980
her time. And I really wanted to make sure Leah

00:31:42.980 --> 00:31:48.480
didn't got a fair depiction. So Louise said to

00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:51.680
me, you know, why is it out of the realm? I'm

00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:54.140
going to butcher how she said it, but why is

00:31:54.140 --> 00:31:56.579
it out of the realm of possibility that this

00:31:56.579 --> 00:31:58.799
group of women who see each other as sisters,

00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:02.589
as family members, that they wouldn't Work out

00:32:02.589 --> 00:32:04.690
a system where they could understand each other

00:32:04.690 --> 00:32:07.549
and that was like, yeah, okay That makes a lot

00:32:07.549 --> 00:32:10.769
of sense like when you are close to someone and

00:32:10.769 --> 00:32:14.049
you find a way to communicate and lead and doesn't

00:32:14.049 --> 00:32:18.109
speak but she makes herself understood and It

00:32:18.109 --> 00:32:21.450
was also important to me that she had agency

00:32:21.450 --> 00:32:23.789
that it wasn't just everybody around her was

00:32:23.789 --> 00:32:26.890
translating for her but that she got to choose

00:32:26.890 --> 00:32:29.980
what she said and winter what she signed, when

00:32:29.980 --> 00:32:33.119
she signed it. And she got to choose when the

00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:36.599
others would translate for her. And that for

00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:40.140
me was incredibly important so that she was a

00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:42.880
real person with her own agency. And I think

00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:47.039
in in one scene, another character asks her what

00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.839
happens and she doesn't want to tell. And so

00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:53.259
eventually, like she gives permission for Gita

00:32:53.259 --> 00:32:56.079
to tell the story of what had happened to her.

00:32:56.420 --> 00:33:00.259
But it was important to me to show that you know

00:33:00.259 --> 00:33:03.279
these characters have their own agency and their

00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:05.359
own lives and of course they would find a way

00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:08.039
to communicate with each other so it just made

00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:13.279
sense to me in that way. Yeah yeah it makes me

00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:16.420
think back to when I was a lot younger and I

00:33:16.420 --> 00:33:20.099
remember reading across a woman I think it was

00:33:20.099 --> 00:33:25.740
in the Victorian era who had somehow got a child

00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:30.369
who was blind and deaf and yet taught them the

00:33:30.369 --> 00:33:36.549
basics of how to eat, how to drink, maybe a bit

00:33:36.549 --> 00:33:40.220
of maths. and it just my mind, my brain couldn't

00:33:40.220 --> 00:33:42.460
comply. How do you get someone who is both deaf

00:33:42.460 --> 00:33:44.799
and blind to learn things and they can't see

00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:46.460
and they can't hear because it's all through

00:33:46.460 --> 00:33:49.440
touch but then someone had done it. Human brains

00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:51.279
are incredible and there are some remarkable

00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:53.400
people out there that have done these remarkable

00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:55.859
things that seem small but have changed someone's

00:33:55.859 --> 00:34:01.039
life entirely. So yeah, your author friend is

00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:03.720
quite apt and it's almost a shame really that

00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:06.339
we don't think that that's possible because we

00:34:06.339 --> 00:34:10.820
don't we can't relate, we can't ourselves because

00:34:10.820 --> 00:34:14.900
we're too used to having all of our abilities.

00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:19.260
We can't picture or imagine. We have our experiences

00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:22.500
exactly like we all have our experiences and

00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:25.099
you know it takes a lot of self -reflection and

00:34:25.099 --> 00:34:29.280
awareness to look at someone else and try to

00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:31.360
live their experiences and try to understand

00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:33.400
their experiences but that I think that's at

00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:36.420
the heart of all humanity is that that empathy

00:34:36.420 --> 00:34:39.519
and that reflection and that's something that

00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:42.119
you know I myself try to strive for but I especially

00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:46.139
try to strive for it in my in my work. I want

00:34:46.139 --> 00:34:49.860
to do the best I can at representing all kinds

00:34:49.860 --> 00:34:54.380
of people. Yeah I mean now that I think about

00:34:54.380 --> 00:34:58.619
it have you ever read Rick Riordan's Magnus Chase

00:34:58.619 --> 00:35:03.480
series? My son has. He read the Percy Jackson

00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:05.880
series and then he's been reading the Magnus

00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:10.099
Chase series slowly. Yes. Because that's got

00:35:10.099 --> 00:35:13.480
an elf character from Alfheim who of course has

00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.500
used not American sign language but Alfheim sign

00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:20.719
language because they don't speak for some unknown

00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:23.579
ability. They can't speak so they always use

00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:27.440
sign language and he's got an incredible diverse

00:35:30.579 --> 00:35:32.920
Representation in his characters, it's not quite

00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:38.440
adult in the terms of being lesbian or gay, but

00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:40.639
it ignores like there's a dwarf who of course

00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:42.460
dwarfs are always typically blacksmith, this

00:35:42.460 --> 00:35:46.059
one wants to be a tailor. He wants to make fine

00:35:46.059 --> 00:35:49.239
suits and scarves and top hats and that kind

00:35:49.239 --> 00:35:51.579
of thing. And he wants to do, but they all want

00:35:51.579 --> 00:35:53.360
to do the opposite of what you would typically

00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:56.000
pin them down to as a stereotype, which I think

00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:58.539
was massively done. And I love that series. It

00:35:58.539 --> 00:36:00.320
was a lot of fun to read. So I'm glad your son's

00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:03.980
reading it and I hope he's enjoying it. Absolutely.

00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:07.199
But yeah, it certainly made me think of another

00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:09.340
book that's actually quite popular in the UK

00:36:09.340 --> 00:36:12.739
at the minute. So I know you're on your holidays

00:36:12.739 --> 00:36:15.909
soon. in the UK, so do look out for it. And I'm

00:36:15.909 --> 00:36:20.190
sure it's called RuneScape. I think it is spelled

00:36:20.190 --> 00:36:23.670
R -U -N -E -S -C -A -P -E. And I think it has

00:36:23.670 --> 00:36:26.530
won the Waterstones Children's Book of the Year

00:36:26.530 --> 00:36:29.670
award. And that's about a character who uses

00:36:29.670 --> 00:36:31.989
sign language, but they get teleported with them

00:36:31.989 --> 00:36:34.210
and a friend into a magical realm. And her sign

00:36:34.210 --> 00:36:36.389
language is actually the ability of doing magic.

00:36:36.869 --> 00:36:38.789
And of course, they get roped into fighting off

00:36:38.789 --> 00:36:41.699
a great evil. I keep meaning to buy it. I just

00:36:41.699 --> 00:36:45.360
found every book on my reading list. I will keep

00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:47.179
an eye out for that. I think my son would love

00:36:47.179 --> 00:36:51.500
that too. I know I would for sure. It's a beautiful

00:36:51.500 --> 00:36:54.139
kind of like picture book. I don't think it's

00:36:54.139 --> 00:36:56.099
a graphic novel or it might be actually. It's

00:36:56.099 --> 00:36:58.019
got a very, it's got a beautiful cover on it.

00:36:58.420 --> 00:37:01.039
I will have to look it up later. But yeah, I've

00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:02.519
heard good things about it in the fact that it

00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:04.440
won Warstone's Children's Book of the Year Award.

00:37:04.539 --> 00:37:08.480
It's always a good sign. So yeah, I think that

00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:11.400
was by Noisy Crow Publishers. I'm pretty sure

00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:13.960
it is. So they published the Hilda series as

00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:20.699
well, which I keep meaning to be. So we've talked

00:37:20.699 --> 00:37:23.119
a little bit about Geena and about some of her

00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:26.000
amazing crew and I won't do too much because

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:27.699
I want everyone to go and meet them in the book

00:37:27.699 --> 00:37:30.340
because they're all amazing. But I know one of

00:37:30.340 --> 00:37:32.579
the other fascinating characters I loved in your

00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:35.000
book is, and you're going to have to remind me

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:38.500
of his name, is the King of the Time in Jorvik.

00:37:38.750 --> 00:37:44.409
Who was he? Oh, Stig Trigger. Stig Trigger. Actually,

00:37:44.550 --> 00:37:46.110
I didn't have to pronounce it anyway, but I'm

00:37:46.110 --> 00:37:49.989
glad you did, so thank you. Yes, he was a real

00:37:49.989 --> 00:37:53.789
fascinating character. Yes, he was actually one

00:37:53.789 --> 00:37:56.929
of my favourite characters to write. He is a...

00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:02.599
Gallywag, a scoundrel. He is, he's a rogue. I

00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:07.539
loved him. He was very much fun to write and

00:38:07.539 --> 00:38:10.679
he might be a bit controversial. I've got a few

00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:12.940
controversial characters, not the least of which

00:38:12.940 --> 00:38:18.300
Gita herself. She is a difficult person and she

00:38:18.300 --> 00:38:22.980
was, I simultaneously hated her and loved her.

00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:28.699
Her choices were challenging, even though I was

00:38:28.699 --> 00:38:32.659
the one writing her. So Siegfried, he was, he

00:38:32.659 --> 00:38:35.219
kind of surprised me. He is a real historical

00:38:35.219 --> 00:38:38.670
figure. A few of the other characters are based

00:38:38.670 --> 00:38:41.369
off of historical figures or are an amalgamation

00:38:41.369 --> 00:38:44.250
of several historical figures that I've combined

00:38:44.250 --> 00:38:46.690
and fictionalized. There's a lot of liberties

00:38:46.690 --> 00:38:49.190
that I need to take as a fiction writer. That's

00:38:49.190 --> 00:38:52.849
pretty normal. Sigfigur himself is a historical

00:38:52.849 --> 00:38:56.429
figure. He was at one time king of Difflin as

00:38:56.429 --> 00:38:59.030
well, and I think as well the Isle of Man before

00:38:59.030 --> 00:39:04.619
he became the king of... Yorvik and during this

00:39:04.619 --> 00:39:09.760
time about 921 -922 CE, I'm pretty sure that's

00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:14.239
about the time when he is king of Yorvik. We're

00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:17.960
not 100 % sure how old he was. We think that

00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:22.500
he was kind of a young man, maybe not particularly

00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:27.000
young, but I've aged him to about 30, 35, 40

00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:30.119
around there. in his maybe late 30s, whereas

00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:35.420
Gita is, you know, in her 40s to 50s. So I've

00:39:35.420 --> 00:39:40.219
given him this scallywag scoundrel characteristic

00:39:40.219 --> 00:39:44.440
and he's kind of chaotic, he's unpredictable,

00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:49.480
he's moody, he will go from one extreme emotion

00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:52.679
to another, he will be angry one moment and then

00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:56.099
playful and childish the next. always murderous

00:39:56.099 --> 00:40:00.199
and chaotic and Bloodshed and all of that, but

00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:05.219
he was a lot of fun to write and I wanted to

00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:07.880
Kind of carry that thread through all the way

00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:17.000
to the end So yes Yeah, he was he's a beautiful

00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:22.460
I Want to say almost reflection if not perfect

00:40:22.460 --> 00:40:26.679
balancing counterpart to Ghida in the scenes

00:40:26.679 --> 00:40:30.019
where they are together and either working together

00:40:30.019 --> 00:40:32.300
or striving against each other for one reason

00:40:32.300 --> 00:40:33.619
or the other because they each are very much

00:40:33.619 --> 00:40:35.820
driven by their own agenda and their own motives

00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:39.780
which I quite like especially I can still vividly

00:40:39.780 --> 00:40:42.000
remember the scene where she meets him in his

00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:45.000
hall just before something dramatic happens and

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.260
I'm not going to say what because that'll spoil

00:40:47.260 --> 00:40:55.380
it. but yeah he was fascinating because of course

00:40:55.380 --> 00:40:57.860
other male characters I can remember distinctly

00:40:57.860 --> 00:41:02.980
are the current yarl if not lord that is ruling

00:41:02.980 --> 00:41:06.219
Difflin in place of the King of Ireland or the

00:41:06.219 --> 00:41:09.579
High King at the time so was he based another

00:41:09.579 --> 00:41:14.380
real historical figure from Yes, so Yarol Olavi.

00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:18.219
So he was an amalgamation of a couple of different

00:41:18.219 --> 00:41:20.500
rulers at the time. Some of them were, you know,

00:41:20.659 --> 00:41:22.599
of the time period, some of them were later.

00:41:23.780 --> 00:41:26.980
There was no Yarol Olavi in Difflin at the time,

00:41:27.019 --> 00:41:30.280
as far as I know. I think there was a Yarol Olaf

00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:34.739
at some point, but they're not the same person.

00:41:34.909 --> 00:41:38.949
I borrowed the name, essentially. The king that

00:41:38.949 --> 00:41:41.750
I mentioned very briefly, King Guthroler, he

00:41:41.750 --> 00:41:45.530
was the king at the time. And for the purposes

00:41:45.530 --> 00:41:48.349
of the story, I needed to kind of have him out

00:41:48.349 --> 00:41:51.210
of the picture. So he didn't feature in the book

00:41:51.210 --> 00:41:55.650
at all. Instead, like Olavi, because he's very

00:41:55.650 --> 00:41:58.550
connected to Gita, without spoiling too much,

00:41:58.869 --> 00:42:01.110
he and Gita are very, very much connected in

00:42:01.110 --> 00:42:05.449
their history as well as in the present. uh circumstances

00:42:05.449 --> 00:42:08.489
of the plot uh so he was a really interesting

00:42:08.489 --> 00:42:12.329
character to write because for Geeta he's a bit

00:42:12.329 --> 00:42:15.329
of a villain or not not so much a villain as

00:42:15.329 --> 00:42:19.510
an antagonist um whereas from maybe the reader's

00:42:19.510 --> 00:42:21.670
perspective or even from Olavi's perspective

00:42:21.670 --> 00:42:26.130
himself he's only being reasonable so it it was

00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:30.380
interesting to take a few of the characteristics

00:42:30.380 --> 00:42:35.460
of the time of how reputation worked and how

00:42:35.460 --> 00:42:38.840
responsibility as a leader to your people worked

00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:42.480
in the Viking Age. These people are not kings

00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:46.099
in the sense of deserving undivided loyalty.

00:42:46.340 --> 00:42:50.070
They owed their people. their loyalty and their

00:42:50.070 --> 00:42:51.909
protection and their service just as much as

00:42:51.909 --> 00:42:55.170
they expected that in return. And so Olavi has

00:42:55.170 --> 00:42:57.969
this burden of looking after the people that

00:42:57.969 --> 00:43:02.630
he's responsible for, one of whom is Gita. And

00:43:02.630 --> 00:43:06.989
Gita chafes under that. So I really wanted to

00:43:06.989 --> 00:43:11.210
depict that particular part of Viking Age culture

00:43:11.210 --> 00:43:16.400
and expectation and how much Olavi has. this

00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:18.940
responsibility and this burden upon him as a

00:43:18.940 --> 00:43:23.360
ruler, as a leader. So he was an interesting

00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:30.780
foil to Gita as well. Yes, there are just so

00:43:30.780 --> 00:43:34.159
many characters in your stories, actually so

00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:39.760
many. And it's such a beautiful, eclectic, crazy...

00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:42.860
mix and they come from so many different spheres

00:43:42.860 --> 00:43:45.739
and levels of society and professions and positions

00:43:45.739 --> 00:43:49.699
and wealth and everything and it really is an

00:43:49.699 --> 00:43:52.320
amazing book and I'm so proud, so proud of it

00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:54.440
and I'm so glad to have gotten hold of it first.

00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:58.320
but yes it's amazing. I do encourage anyone to

00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:01.139
go buy or download or borrow Rand's Daughters

00:44:01.139 --> 00:44:04.619
if it's in any good libraries because it is truly

00:44:04.619 --> 00:44:07.480
worth a read, especially if you are fans of Bernard

00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:10.320
Cornwall or Giles Christian or Justin Hill or

00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:14.119
Theodore Brun. I could go on and on just just

00:44:14.119 --> 00:44:15.880
just go read it just go read it you'll enjoy

00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:19.639
it. But seeming that you mentioned another book

00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:21.579
that you've written, which is set in the 10th

00:44:21.579 --> 00:44:25.079
century in Jorvik, I haven't come across this

00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:27.559
one from you yet, Caitlin. Are you able to tell

00:44:27.559 --> 00:44:33.619
us more? Oh maybe it's it I'm editing it um as

00:44:33.619 --> 00:44:36.219
I said like I finished I finished the first draft

00:44:36.219 --> 00:44:38.380
right before I started writing Rand's Daughters

00:44:38.380 --> 00:44:41.219
and Rand's Daughters took up all of my energy

00:44:41.219 --> 00:44:43.579
and my attention for the previous four years

00:44:43.579 --> 00:44:46.739
so I'm kind of slowly getting back into writing

00:44:46.739 --> 00:44:50.889
again after some pretty serious burnout um So

00:44:50.889 --> 00:44:54.030
I'm looking at starting to edit that book. Yes,

00:44:54.030 --> 00:44:58.929
it is set in about 920 CE in the countryside

00:44:58.929 --> 00:45:04.269
of Northumbria around Dorvik. And it is, interestingly,

00:45:05.829 --> 00:45:09.349
based off of the mythology of Sigurd Hritha,

00:45:09.670 --> 00:45:12.449
the Valkyrie in the mountain, the sleeping Valkyrie

00:45:12.449 --> 00:45:16.489
in the mountain, from, I think, the Poetic Edda.

00:45:16.869 --> 00:45:21.699
Yes, the Valsunga saga. Or if you want to be

00:45:21.699 --> 00:45:25.760
more romantic you could call it the oh my god

00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:27.980
the word just slipped right out of my head like

00:45:27.980 --> 00:45:31.519
Loki stealing a thought. The Germanic one, the

00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:38.280
Germanic tradition, the Nibelungliad. Awesome,

00:45:41.780 --> 00:45:44.920
oh well I will definitely keep an eager hand

00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:47.760
and ear out ready to grab hold of that book and

00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:51.000
enjoy that. wish you all the best luck editing

00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:53.940
it but it's finished to a degree and I hope it

00:45:53.940 --> 00:45:56.519
continues to grow in more fun beauty and I'm

00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:58.699
sure it'll be just as good as Ran's daughters

00:45:58.699 --> 00:46:02.159
because you do have a talent Caitlin it is very

00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:05.019
black and white in paper for everyone to see

00:46:05.019 --> 00:46:07.579
and enjoy and I just can't stop saying one about

00:46:07.579 --> 00:46:16.730
it enough. So I guess well Rams Daughters is

00:46:16.730 --> 00:46:19.630
out there and sailing beyond wide, far and wide

00:46:19.630 --> 00:46:21.630
and you've got some other book turning away.

00:46:22.809 --> 00:46:26.710
Do you think you would continue to write in the

00:46:26.710 --> 00:46:28.750
Viking Age? Is there a particular area of the

00:46:28.750 --> 00:46:31.690
Viking Age, nationality, people, historically

00:46:31.690 --> 00:46:34.110
wise that you find more fascinating than anywhere

00:46:34.110 --> 00:46:36.309
else? Because of course Rams Daughters goes a

00:46:36.309 --> 00:46:38.909
bit here, there and everywhere. Your newest one

00:46:38.909 --> 00:46:42.949
is more set in the UK at least. Are there any

00:46:42.949 --> 00:46:44.969
areas, particularly the Viking Age, which capture

00:46:44.969 --> 00:46:48.429
your interest? That's a really good question.

00:46:49.050 --> 00:46:53.110
I haven't thought about it too much. Every story

00:46:53.110 --> 00:46:56.949
that I start always starts with the person. There's

00:46:56.949 --> 00:47:01.730
always a character that I have in mind. So that's

00:47:01.730 --> 00:47:05.550
how Bran's daughter started. That's how Gita

00:47:05.550 --> 00:47:10.030
herself started. She kind of... was a force unto

00:47:10.030 --> 00:47:14.110
her own, so to speak. And so every story I start

00:47:14.110 --> 00:47:18.250
has to start with a person. And the Viking age

00:47:18.250 --> 00:47:23.130
is so rich with stories and people and, you know,

00:47:23.309 --> 00:47:26.849
fictional or otherwise. There's so much opportunity

00:47:26.849 --> 00:47:31.010
there to tell stories of humanity. And I feel

00:47:31.010 --> 00:47:33.349
very much that, you know, Rand's Daughters is

00:47:33.349 --> 00:47:37.969
a story of Ambition and the cost of ambition,

00:47:38.250 --> 00:47:43.289
the cost of, you know, making decisions that

00:47:43.289 --> 00:47:48.550
are not the best for you, but you think they

00:47:48.550 --> 00:47:51.949
are. I'm really trying not to spoil too much.

00:47:52.309 --> 00:47:54.570
But yeah, so the cost of ambition is definitely

00:47:54.570 --> 00:47:59.469
Rand's Daughters. And I would say that a lot

00:47:59.469 --> 00:48:02.190
of the stories that I want to tell have to do

00:48:02.190 --> 00:48:05.469
with like that kind of a of emotion or archetype.

00:48:05.650 --> 00:48:09.230
I wrote an urban fantasy a few years ago that

00:48:09.230 --> 00:48:13.150
was very much based on guilt and what happens

00:48:13.150 --> 00:48:17.650
to a person when they can't escape a crushing

00:48:17.650 --> 00:48:20.190
sense of guilt and how does that manifest in

00:48:20.190 --> 00:48:23.050
their choices. And the Valkyrie book is very

00:48:23.050 --> 00:48:26.710
much about anger, anger and grief. And what do

00:48:26.710 --> 00:48:31.039
you do? um as a response to that kind of extreme

00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:34.920
anger and grief and so I think any any book or

00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:37.400
any story that I would tell further on in the

00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:40.059
Viking age or or in any part of the medieval

00:48:40.059 --> 00:48:42.840
period which is you know where most of my passion

00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:46.500
lies for sure um I would want to explore that

00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:49.480
kind of emotion those difficult things about

00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:52.400
being human and and the choices that we make

00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:57.860
as a result. That's really great to hear because

00:48:57.860 --> 00:49:01.900
that just has echoes of every good, really good

00:49:01.900 --> 00:49:04.340
best -selling author out there. They have such

00:49:04.340 --> 00:49:07.380
a strong connection to their characters, not

00:49:07.380 --> 00:49:09.860
just the time or the context of the geographical

00:49:09.860 --> 00:49:13.099
setting. It just is the people, it's the characters

00:49:13.099 --> 00:49:15.199
that drive their story arc. And that's one thing

00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:18.320
I remember learning very early on in my creative

00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:21.380
writing degree about. It's the characters that

00:49:21.380 --> 00:49:24.739
drive the story because quite often you have

00:49:24.739 --> 00:49:26.300
to start in the middle of something because then

00:49:26.300 --> 00:49:28.059
you want to find out what happens next but then

00:49:28.059 --> 00:49:30.599
you have to learn what happened before and time

00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:32.719
jumps there but it's why kind of like reading

00:49:32.719 --> 00:49:35.780
sometimes I come across historical fiction that

00:49:35.780 --> 00:49:39.380
was written decades ago and it's such a slower

00:49:39.380 --> 00:49:42.440
pace compared to the historical fiction of today.

00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:46.099
There was one book that I started on my very

00:49:46.099 --> 00:49:48.960
recent family holiday called Jorvik actually.

00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:51.320
Just saying, there is another one out there called

00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:54.400
the Orbeck. Nothing to do with Valkyries in the

00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:58.179
mountains of Northumbria. but it was it was almost

00:49:58.179 --> 00:50:01.980
too slow and the narration jumped about so quickly

00:50:01.980 --> 00:50:04.579
within the same paragraph it just almost made

00:50:04.579 --> 00:50:07.179
me feel dizzy and so I put it down and I picked

00:50:07.179 --> 00:50:09.579
another one more modern one I thought yes this

00:50:09.579 --> 00:50:11.639
is it it's like us basically it keeps me in the

00:50:11.639 --> 00:50:14.199
page if he's been wanting to say more it's always

00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:16.659
interesting I do find it interesting how the

00:50:16.659 --> 00:50:19.300
way we tell stories has changed especially in

00:50:19.300 --> 00:50:23.340
the context of historical fiction because for

00:50:23.340 --> 00:50:26.510
those of us who have read Lord of the Rings we

00:50:26.510 --> 00:50:29.230
all know how much many pages they're devoted

00:50:29.230 --> 00:50:33.550
to describing a forest or a footpath or the sunrise

00:50:33.550 --> 00:50:36.809
or the rain but that's because they had nothing

00:50:36.809 --> 00:50:39.309
else to do back then but read books there wasn't

00:50:39.309 --> 00:50:43.750
that much TV around. I mean there is there is

00:50:43.750 --> 00:50:47.289
a sort of degree of escapism in any story and

00:50:47.289 --> 00:50:49.789
particularly in historical fiction people pick

00:50:49.789 --> 00:50:52.280
it up because they want to be transported. They

00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:55.639
want to time travel. They want to be in that.

00:50:55.699 --> 00:50:58.500
At least that's how it is for me. I want to time

00:50:58.500 --> 00:51:01.659
travel. I want to be in these places and meet

00:51:01.659 --> 00:51:06.000
these people and experience these events. And

00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:10.320
yeah, those stories have their place. Those older

00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:13.699
books had their place and their day. I think

00:51:13.699 --> 00:51:16.679
that the way that we tell stories will always

00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:19.260
continue to change, and especially with the rise

00:51:19.260 --> 00:51:24.940
of AI storytelling, which as an author myself,

00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:30.199
I feel very conflicted about it as a storyteller.

00:51:30.619 --> 00:51:33.380
I don't know if I necessarily like machines telling

00:51:33.380 --> 00:51:38.639
stories for me. However, it's about how people

00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:41.260
consume. I would say, you know, how people consume

00:51:41.260 --> 00:51:44.019
their stories, how people look for that escape,

00:51:44.139 --> 00:51:47.480
how people look to time travel or to experience

00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:49.400
things that they don't experience in their own

00:51:49.400 --> 00:51:51.260
life. And I don't think that will ever change.

00:51:51.820 --> 00:51:55.440
You know, we as human beings crave stories. We

00:51:55.440 --> 00:52:00.579
tell stories to each other, to ourselves. We

00:52:00.579 --> 00:52:04.079
consume stories from others and all around us.

00:52:04.099 --> 00:52:07.719
And that will always be that will always be the

00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:13.679
case. That is superbly put. I applaud that sentiment

00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:17.139
entirely because that is, but I'm sure many other

00:52:17.139 --> 00:52:19.659
listeners and viewers who are readers, who are

00:52:19.659 --> 00:52:21.960
bookworms will just like, their hearts will beat

00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:24.219
well with that statement. It was beautifully

00:52:24.219 --> 00:52:30.280
put and very well explained. I can't really talk

00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:32.219
more about Ramsdorch, it's not spoiling it for

00:52:32.219 --> 00:52:34.840
everyone, so everyone go away and read it and

00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:37.000
then let me know and then we can talk about it.

00:52:37.179 --> 00:52:41.300
um because it is a real it's just phenomenal

00:52:41.300 --> 00:52:46.320
it is really phenomenal and I wish you best of

00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:48.340
luck with the next one because I can't wait to

00:52:48.340 --> 00:52:50.800
see what more your talent will produce it's just

00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:53.739
going to be amazing thank you so much I will

00:52:53.739 --> 00:52:57.710
I will absolutely keep you updated Well, you've

00:52:57.710 --> 00:52:59.750
mentioned my cat -knit word of Valkyries, so

00:52:59.750 --> 00:53:01.469
I'm definitely going to be messaging you after

00:53:01.469 --> 00:53:03.329
this recording saying, tell me, tell me more,

00:53:03.530 --> 00:53:08.349
tell me all your secrets. I shall divulge all

00:53:08.349 --> 00:53:11.690
the secrets. You don't have to, you don't have

00:53:11.690 --> 00:53:13.570
to, could you say, Rebecca, shush, I'm editing.

00:53:16.530 --> 00:53:18.349
But another thing we've also got quite in common

00:53:18.349 --> 00:53:20.389
that I will just plug away, I love to mention

00:53:20.389 --> 00:53:23.010
it, is we are both on the Vikings of Valkyries.

00:53:23.150 --> 00:53:28.289
which is an actual play D &D style tabletop roleplay

00:53:28.289 --> 00:53:31.150
game, although virtual top roleplay game led

00:53:31.150 --> 00:53:35.050
by the master ingenious that I call Mr. Vikingverse,

00:53:35.309 --> 00:53:38.469
otherwise known as Ian Stewart Sharp. Excellent,

00:53:39.329 --> 00:53:42.409
excellent. Caitlin represents Guido very well.

00:53:42.630 --> 00:53:45.170
I got very strong Guido vibes from your character

00:53:45.170 --> 00:53:49.440
in that. I'm pretty sure you used the name as

00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:52.980
well, didn't you? Yes, we did. We did. A modernized,

00:53:53.300 --> 00:53:58.039
futuristic, different type of Gita Fiskvi, but

00:53:58.039 --> 00:54:02.139
all the swearing and bloodshed was there. I mean,

00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:03.860
that's the other thing you need to go and buy

00:54:03.860 --> 00:54:06.280
this book, dear everyone. It's got the... best

00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:10.960
Norse oaths and curses and just oh it it gives

00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:14.260
you it gives it gives kind of like life to swearing

00:54:14.260 --> 00:54:16.820
again instead of just all these technology it

00:54:16.820 --> 00:54:20.059
was just just just just don't have the power

00:54:20.059 --> 00:54:22.139
just have the power i have to say i have to say

00:54:22.139 --> 00:54:24.800
that was another really fun part of writing this

00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:27.239
book was coming up with all of the crazy swear

00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:32.769
words it was so much fun I mean I'll always remember

00:54:32.769 --> 00:54:36.710
and I think it was under the much late and missed

00:54:36.710 --> 00:54:40.650
Robert Lowe's book. I'm sure he wrote the words

00:54:40.650 --> 00:54:44.409
Odin's beard and Thor's hairy balls or someone

00:54:44.409 --> 00:54:47.769
did. But those words have always stuck in my

00:54:47.769 --> 00:54:50.969
head ever since as expletives that a Northman

00:54:50.969 --> 00:54:54.159
would say. It might even have been Giles. I'm

00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:56.519
not entirely sure. Someone... Sounds like Giles.

00:54:58.780 --> 00:55:03.920
It probably was Giles. But yes, do go check out

00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:05.960
both me, myself and Caitlin. We're in separate

00:55:05.960 --> 00:55:08.599
episodes, alas, because of timing and issues

00:55:08.599 --> 00:55:11.920
in the way cast members joined and then left.

00:55:12.179 --> 00:55:16.920
That's all I will say on that one. But yes, it's

00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:20.429
a sci -fi, biking -esque... adventure with the

00:55:20.429 --> 00:55:23.909
most, and I quote a reviewer, the most hapless

00:55:23.909 --> 00:55:27.409
group of heroes you could ever meet. And me and

00:55:27.409 --> 00:55:29.369
Caitlin are one of those. We're not one of the

00:55:29.369 --> 00:55:31.369
main three, but we tag along and have fun for

00:55:31.369 --> 00:55:34.409
the ride. It was excellent. I should, I want

00:55:34.409 --> 00:55:38.250
to plug one more. One of the main three in the

00:55:38.250 --> 00:55:41.730
Vikings and Valkyries podcast, CJ Adrian. His

00:55:41.730 --> 00:55:44.250
new book just came out today, so I want to say

00:55:44.250 --> 00:55:48.860
congratulations CJ! Yes, congratulations CJ,

00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:52.500
otherwise known as Grofgar, the Magnificent.

00:55:52.619 --> 00:55:55.840
May he forever live on riding his giant sea worm

00:55:55.840 --> 00:55:58.820
into the sunset at the end. Spoiler alert, sorry.

00:55:59.820 --> 00:56:02.599
But yes, he is phenomenal. I've got his books

00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:04.880
on my Kindle to read. I've got so many on my

00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:06.980
Kindle to read, as well as on my shelf to read.

00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:09.619
I have no time to read, but my kid is going to

00:56:09.619 --> 00:56:11.960
school soon, so maybe I will have time to read.

00:56:13.219 --> 00:56:16.610
But yes. So that's a wonderful recap and roundup

00:56:16.610 --> 00:56:19.210
of everything Nordic between me and Caitlin and

00:56:19.210 --> 00:56:22.750
anything else in between. There is lots, there

00:56:22.750 --> 00:56:24.510
is lots because we're often messaging each other

00:56:24.510 --> 00:56:27.369
outside of podcasting. Yes we are definitely.

00:56:27.409 --> 00:56:29.050
Oh have you seen this and have you seen this

00:56:29.050 --> 00:56:32.230
and it's awesome because we have a connection.

00:56:32.460 --> 00:56:35.739
we have lost hearts, so it's all good. Oh, but

00:56:35.739 --> 00:56:37.900
I know it, but the time's no different, and we

00:56:37.900 --> 00:56:39.780
are doing this in the evening, and we are both

00:56:39.780 --> 00:56:42.679
mums, so I will let you go back to your sleep

00:56:42.679 --> 00:56:44.900
so you can have dreams, so that talent can be

00:56:44.900 --> 00:56:47.960
bright and fresh for the mornings, editing, and

00:56:47.960 --> 00:56:49.880
so on. But last but not least, ladies and gentlemen,

00:56:49.940 --> 00:56:52.820
please do go by, Rems Daughters, out now, in

00:56:52.820 --> 00:56:55.800
all good book shops, libraries. online, offline,

00:56:56.079 --> 00:56:58.840
outland entertainment. Go buy it. You will not

00:56:58.840 --> 00:57:02.440
regret it. It is stunning. And if not, rewind

00:57:02.440 --> 00:57:05.099
and read it and to be reading the excellent prologue.

00:57:07.460 --> 00:57:10.599
Thank you so much, Caitlin, for joining me on

00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:12.900
this month's episode of Valhalla Conversations

00:57:12.900 --> 00:57:15.900
podcast. Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure

00:57:15.900 --> 00:57:18.159
talking to you. I can't wait to come back on

00:57:18.159 --> 00:57:22.679
again. I'm sure we will find something, because

00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:26.619
we have had you on before, back in episode eight,

00:57:26.920 --> 00:57:29.039
I think maybe episode five, when we reviewed

00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:32.099
Ragnarok, the Netflix TV series. Yes, yes, that

00:57:32.099 --> 00:57:34.300
was so much fun. That was a really interesting

00:57:34.300 --> 00:57:37.659
conversation with some great people. Yes, that

00:57:37.659 --> 00:57:40.800
was, it was an amazing trilogy. And again, please

00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:43.900
viewers and listeners. Go watch, go watch Ragnarok,

00:57:44.019 --> 00:57:46.159
you won't regret it. It's Norse mythology done

00:57:46.159 --> 00:57:48.880
properly without the Marvel magic. In terms of

00:57:48.880 --> 00:57:50.820
coming up, viewers and listeners, for episode

00:57:50.820 --> 00:57:53.460
18, we did have a guest. He's unfortunately had

00:57:53.460 --> 00:57:57.599
to pull out. So I am now trying to lure, recruit,

00:57:57.940 --> 00:58:01.519
trap someone else to come on for episode 18 in

00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:05.059
August. If not, we do have more episodes definitely

00:58:05.059 --> 00:58:08.260
booked in for September, October and November.

00:58:08.559 --> 00:58:10.619
I just need to fill December. So we're nearly,

00:58:10.619 --> 00:58:13.099
we're nearly completing a full year of podcasts.

00:58:13.260 --> 00:58:16.119
So I do hope you can subscribe wherever you're

00:58:16.119 --> 00:58:18.300
listening or watching today and continue along

00:58:18.300 --> 00:58:21.800
and return and join me in my humble bell hole

00:58:21.800 --> 00:58:24.900
where we talk all things North. Thank you once

00:58:24.900 --> 00:58:28.380
again, Caitlin. It has been amazing. Thank you

00:58:28.380 --> 00:58:49.429
so much. Thank you very much for listening to

00:58:49.429 --> 00:58:52.610
this episode. I hope you enjoyed the discussions

00:58:52.610 --> 00:58:55.869
between my special guests and myself. Please

00:58:55.869 --> 00:58:58.570
do check out the episode blurb for links to their

00:58:58.570 --> 00:59:01.489
works and websites. If you liked this episode,

00:59:01.570 --> 00:59:04.269
let me know by giving it a thumbs up. Let me

00:59:04.269 --> 00:59:06.429
know if you learned something new in the comments.

00:59:06.849 --> 00:59:10.090
And of course, click subscribe to Valhalla Conversations

00:59:10.090 --> 00:59:13.449
wherever you are listening or watching. This

00:59:13.449 --> 00:59:15.989
podcast can be watched on YouTube and YouTube

00:59:15.989 --> 00:59:19.610
Music. and it can also be listened to on Spotify,

00:59:20.110 --> 00:59:24.369
Amazon Music, Podcast Intex and on RSS .com.

00:59:24.869 --> 00:59:27.230
We hope you can join us in Valhalla again soon

00:59:27.230 --> 00:59:28.769
for more conversations.