you Hello and welcome to this special bonus episode
of Valhalla Conversations podcast. Tonight, we
are talking to a very special photographer of
sorts. I might say photographer of sorts. She
is a photographer, dear ladies and gentlemen,
because I came across her photography in a Nordic
mythology and folklore Facebook group, and she
has photographed the Norse gods. Quite a claim
to fame, I'm sure you'll agree. And it is with
some clever editing, there's great historical
costumes, great staging, great lighting, the
scene setting is wonderful, and she's captured
scenes from the tales of the North Scots as well.
There is a photo of Odin, there is a photo of
Freya, there's a photo of Loki looking extremely
mysterious as he eyes at Balder, who's about
to have every weapon of mankind thrown at him.
There is an epic photo of Valkyries on a battlefield,
which I know this photographer is also involved.
There's a photo of Idun with her golden apples
and a photo of Thor being bested by the old lady
in Udgaard Loki's hall. But that's enough of
the photos. We are here to talk to the photographer
behind them and how she came up with them. And
I would like to welcome Jen Robinson. Welcome
to the podcast. Hello. Thanks for having me.
Now, as I was saying, I came across your photos
in this Facebook group to do with Norse folklore
and mythology, because that is one of my many
passions. And as I tried to find out who did
these photos, where these photos emerged from,
I then discovered that it's with, well, part
in part because you are a member of Regia and
Galorum, are you not? Yes. So I've been a member
of Regia and Galorum for, I think this will be
my 10th year officially. So we're coming up on
a decade. Battle of Hastings will be my 10th
year anniversary. And it's kind of interesting
that photography really brought me to reenactment
in the first place. I had come to the UK on an
exchange program. I was doing a degree in ancient
and medieval history. Wow. Yeah. So there's a
lot of crossing lines here. So I'm originally
Canadian. I came from Calgary. And because there
weren't a lot of medieval courses for me to take
there. I came to the University of Kent and at
the Freshers' Fair, there was someone there in
medieval kit. And I'm just like, I want to come
talk to you. So they handed me a brochure, kind
of, it was the end of their day. So they gave
me a stack of brochures. I messaged the page
and I'm like, I see you have a show with the
Battle of Hastings coming up. Can I come along
and just take pictures? That was my plan. I was
going to come along, like, this sounds like a
medieval festival. I'll just come with my camera
and enjoy it. And by the second day, I was on
the battlefield as a water carrier, not fighting
it. But I was in kit and carrying water behind
the Norman troops. So it didn't take long to
go straight from photography to reenactment.
Wow. That's amazing. So tell me, did you always
have an interest in medieval history, seeming
you chose to come over all the way over here
to study it, I assume? Yeah, I think my fascination
with the history kind of started more with fantasy.
I think because there's so much like fantasy
is so heavily based in. medieval lore and medieval
kind of just understandings. And a lot of that
was Tolkien, who obviously that's a little bit
full circle, because he starts with the history,
then makes it into fantasy, and then that drew
me back. So a lot of the books that I read in
kind of high school were very fantasy based,
so medieval kind of world building. And then
that turned into a very historical base that
I wanted to pursue through university. Brilliant.
And was it a particular part of, of course, because
I say medieval, that's quite a huge span of time
in itself. Was there a particular era involving
the Vikings, so to speak, that interested you,
or were you just interested in the Anglo -Saxons,
I say the Normans, of course, because they're
very popular in Hastings? I think I have. Anything
medieval will suffice. Like I'll go early, high,
late. I think my original thing, just again through
the fantasy, was normally very high medieval.
But then when I came to Canterbury to do my studies
and I found the reenactment group, I was kind
of, I knew of reenactment and I was kind of looking
for a later period society, but I ran into regia
first and I think kind of through that gained
much more of an appreciation for the earlier
medieval time period. Cool, so what was it like
then, once you kind of like after that Hastings
event where you've got your official first bite,
taste of re -enactment life, what was the process
then of next becoming a member of Reg Englerem?
Because I personally have no idea what the process
is like. You sign a form and you pay a membership,
it's not complicated, so it is very easy. It's
a very diverse society that we have people from
all age groups, all walks of life. uh it's there's
like families so there's lots of kids and I think
I'm now starting to become the generation like
where they're having their own kids and then
they're they're kind of unwillingly or willingly
a part of Reggie as well uh so it is just this
kind of ever -growing community of just people
who are nerds about history and of course they
are the biggest as far as I know at least reenactment
group for history in the UK and we both have
an acquaintance in Reg Engelorm of Nigel Amos
because I've seen his wonderful work at the Orbit
Viking Festival many times especially I will
always remember his speech during one particular
medieval banquet that I did at the festival it
was the only banquet I ever managed to get to
and he made it a cherry on the cake although
having Einar Selvik then play a harp and blow
a goat horn and play sing music was also a cherry
on top but having Nigel there was equally really
really good. New York's always a great time.
And he's got such a talent beyond Regalorum in
kind of like writing the scripts for a lot of
the festival finales for Jorvik as well. But
I know he also does other things to do with jousting
and night contests and commentary on that kind
of thing. I always find it fascinating how deep
and how extensive people in reenactment groups
pursue their history and their expertise and
knowledge beyond, of course, the authenticity
of the kit and the living history aspect. It's
nice to see you all be so active beyond that
particular event and that's where the public
can engage with you. Yeah, I've always said it's
one of the most diverse hobbies you could have
because it's a million hobbies within one. If
you want to view it as a sport, there's the combat.
If you want to do it as a craft, there's a million
different crafts. There's sometimes more of an
acty side of it. If you're getting involved in
some of the scenes and like the York stuff. So,
and I've kind of added photography as a way to
like, I had photography was a separate hobby,
but it's meshed really well with turns out I
want to take pictures of Vikings. So it works
really well. weddings wasn't quite for me, I
needed people in armor. No that's good, that's
quite a unique and special talent to have because
of course we often see photographers working
around mock battles as I suppose they are kind
of like I've never been of course the Hastings
one and my last two Far North being up in North
Yorkshire. I need to do one in Fulford basically
then I can get to that one. Once William got
that far north there wasn't much of a battle
yet so I don't think you'll have it Hastings.
That's true. But yes, it's kind of like you see
professional photographers doing it, but I think
having someone from within society also have
that skill to take the photographs probably captures
something more. Certainly with these photographs
that you've done with your Norse gods staging,
how did that idea first come about? because I've
been in the society for a while and I've taken
a lot of typical pictures, the ones that you'd
kind of expect to get. So I've got the battles,
we've got nice portraits of people in their kit
and around the campfires and everything else.
And I was kind of trying to figure out a way
to make, like, I have this wealth of people with
amazing kit and this wealth of history knowledge
and this, like, all of this at my fingertips.
And I wanted to figure out how I could basically
make reenactment photos that no one else was
making. So, and I was really trying to push more
of like narrative photos because we'll often
take pictures of like, oh, this was me doing
this reenactment or this was like this us doing
this battle. But I wanted photos that had more
of a story in them. So my first series that I
had done was looking at a bunch of Anglo -Saxon
saints. So I kind of picked saints with with
clearly identifiable, they're associated with
a symbol. So I had like Hildegard von Bingen
with her harp and I had Margaret of Scotland
with the book. I had Augustine with like a little
model church just to kind of be like, here's
people in this time and here's a bit of a story
about them. So using the photos as an entry point
to give a little bit more detail about the saint
itself and I figured okay well I did that for
the Saxons now we're going to do something for
the Vikings and I figured like the gods are the
ones that people would be most interested and
just visually the most interesting because again
you could take a picture of like this is this
king this is this king but just visually there's
not much to distinguish them so I was looking
for kind of moments in stories that if you know
the stories you can look at the picture and make
the connection if you know the mythology you
can look at the picture and kind of figure out
who it is without me having to even say. So what
made you pick the particular gods and the scenes
that you have done then? Part of it was like
looking around Reggie's faces and like who looks
like what. So I think my favourite casting still
has to be my friend Steve Baker as Odin. because
I think just he has the beard of Odin and it
was perfect. So I grabbed that. A lot of these
most people didn't know they were going to be
in it until about a day or two before where I'm
like, hey, I'm doing this thing. Can I just grab
you for like maybe half an hour at this event
and just go off and take some pictures of you?
And they're like, I guess, sure, whatever. So
Odin was my first one. He's the one I took the
picture of first. So that was just at a training
event. He's photoshopped into that background.
So I just took a picture of him quickly outside.
The blood is obviously not real. So I had a bandage
and I had a bunch of fake blood. So I just smeared
that over, stuck on his face, accidentally dyed
his skin a little bit pinkish for a little bit,
which is why there's no fake blood in any of
the other ones. But yeah, so I took that picture
first and that was kind of my first one, like
really got excited about the rest of the project.
I'm like, okay, who else do I want? I kind of
just took it from there. Cool, so he's obviously
in a very simple, I say simple, it looks simple.
It's not heavily ordained or lavish. Great. lots
of lavish colourful embroidery, kind of like
dark grey clothing, got obviously a kind of a
hood slash cloak around his face, blooded, and
it is excellently blooded I will say, bandage,
is across his right, yeah, right eye. Yeah, his
right, yeah. Yes, right eye. I'm having to kind
of like just... That's always been interesting,
kind of whenever I see depictions of Odin or
even come across him written about in both fantasy
fiction or otherwise, kind of like which eye
people choose to make the blind one or the one
that's not there, whether it's the right or the
left. I had a quick Google, I'm like, is there
a specific one or do I get to pick? So I did
have a little bit of a Google beforehand. But
yeah, like for that, I wanted it to be, for these
pictures, I was looking for moments. I wanted
this to be the moment that he's walking away
from Yggdrasil. You can see the ravens circling
the trees. And just like, he's just made that
decision. He's just gained that knowledge in
that story. And is that a real spear he's holding
as well? That spear is real. He was holding that
spear. That is a sharp spear. One of our members
had just gotten a shiny new toy and I had another
one lined up because, again, Ricky is great because
I can just be like... hi can whoever has a sharp
spear please bring it to this event um and let
me borrow it for a bit so like i had some options
and then someone came up with this one that was
just a gorgeous tiny like that one's really pretty
can i borrow that for like 10 seconds i was looking
at it before the recording well before recording
this episode and i noticed kind of the gold kind
of it was like a hilt of sorts just below where
the actual blade is yeah so it's almost like
a nice little four spear that has the yeah It's
a really nice, of course many people forget that
he had a weapon just like Thor had his weapon
and the other many trinkets and toys of the gods,
but I do think it's incredibly moody and atmospheric
and it suits Odin's grim side because he just
has a dark side to Odin, especially in the actual
sagas and the lore. The fact that he gives up
an eye for O gives him an eye for knowledge and
hangs himself for knowledge. He's just, he's
very He's cruel to others as well as himself.
It's harsh. The Viking world was harsh. You're
not going to have a Norse god that's very kind
and fluffy bunny rabbits. Their world is one
of violence and just grimness. It's not going
to be easy. I kind of wanted to go with him as
the Grey Wanderer that he's known for. So nothing.
got in like full King of the Gods regalia, he's
like snuck away to do this. That's a good point
because of course most people in the Nick of
Odin they probably think of someone with an even
longer beard than that, or they think of Anthony
Hopkins of course from the Thor films which was
an atrocious depiction of Odin. I will never
forgive them for inventing the thing that they
call the Odin's sleep. He's asleep, just call
it asleep. Nothing special about it because he's
Odin and he's asleep, really. Anyway, less of
that, the better. Okay, so which photo came after
Odin then? Who was your next star model? The
next one was the Freya one, so the meat hall,
which I think is the one that I probably did
the most. actual photoshopping in because all
of those cats are photoshopped in. I was not
working with cats live. That was not going to
happen. I did wonder. I did wonder. But I'm assuming
the people in that whole scene are real members
from Reggae as well. Yep. Again, we were so that
we are very, very fortunate to have the long
haul. We have it's called Wickers. We have our
own Anglo -Saxon long haul that's been built
by members. We've had it for decades now. And
it's a constantly evolving project where people
are making stuff, adding stuff, fixing stuff.
And any chance we get, we go down there and use
it and live in it and have battles around it.
And it is one of the most magical places. So
we were having, I can't remember which event
this is, if I'm honest, because we go up there
a few times. But it was one of those things.
I'm like, hi, I need like 20 people in the long
haul for a bit. Or I'd go around like, you come
in, you come in, you come in. Just trying to
get more people in. I talked to my Freya beforehand,
so that's my friend Laura. So I'm just like,
okay, you're a goddess, you're psyching your
people up. And she's like, all right. So I'm
just like, just yell random stuff at them. Post
them, just yell stuff at them. So that was an
action shot where she's just, I can't remember
what she was saying, but she was just like yelling
vague noises. um and then yeah whether she was
half sat on a throne of some sort or whether
she was kind of like half half leg up on a table
kind of like getting herself high up yeah yeah
so she has one foot on the throne and one foot
on the table ah i did wonder because of course
this is why this scene particularly caught my
interest not because Odin is as everywhere as
Loki is if anyone can name three gods it's Odin
Thor and Loki but Freya herself and this aspect
of her oars having her own hall and of course
hardly anyone remembers or acknowledges that
she gets to choose half the led as well, not
the stoning. I was like yes this is the Freya
that people need to know, she is her own ruler,
her own little queen in her own right and I love
the concept that you've got in this scene of
her with the hall and it's beautifully lit and
of course I'm assuming they're a real kind of
I want to say paintings, there's like Bayeux
tapestry style behind her. Wall paintings, yeah,
they're on the wall. Wall paintings, yeah. But
that's a lovely aspect of the hall coming through
as well. Yeah, so she, it was definitely one
of the things when I learned that she had a hall
too. I'm like, everyone knows the word Valhalla.
No one's heard of Falkvang or, like, if I can
do anything, I'm going to write that. So I wanted
to give her, place of command because I think
the female gods don't necessarily do as much
in the myths and or it's like she's gonna be
offered a marriage to this person or that person
and she refuses and that kind of it's fine but
like show her in like in her environment a little
bit more so I wanted to just get that name and
get her kind of um her setting in a little bit
different just reframe that for her um and then
like all the cats. I was going to try and add
more but I ran out of places that made sense
to put them. No that's good it's a really amazing
photo and besides kind of like the Valkyries
which is my other secret catnip when it comes
to Vikings and anything to do with them um kind
of like yes I completely salute you for your
work with Freya. It's a wonderful nod and homage
to her and the legacy that people forget to often
overlook because as you say they don't Goddesses
don't do much in the canon. And sadly, that's
probably because of the person who records them
all and chose not to record stories about the
Goddesses as much as these recorded stories about
the gods. I'm going to blame you, Snorri Sturlson,
because I know a lot of other academics do. So
I'm just jumping on that bandwagon. That was
another great one where I just, again, Regia,
I'm like, I know a bunch of you have cats. I
need some pictures. So just I got it. bombarded
with just pictures of cats for a while and I
just had to go through them like okay like I
gave them all these requirements like has to
be full body has to be like they have to get
perched on something uh has to be taken either
like from below or I just I was just trying to
get something that would fit My main plan was
having the ones that are in the rafters and then
I got one more that was perfect and just kind
of tucked into her feet. So I was, yeah, for
a while there, my Facebook messenger was just
cat photo, cat photo, cat photo, cat photo, cat
photo. Can I ask just about a personal interest?
What made you choose to have, was it purely because
of the editing and the nature of editing them
in, would it have been easier to do it with actual
How live house cats or did you ever consider
making them bigger cats bigger felines? I think
as soon as something's size is off the Photoshopping
has to be maybe better than I would be able to
get it Okay, because I think there's a level
of like suspense of disbelief Where Yeah, I never
really I didn't really consider that I could
have made him bigger I didn't but I think I still
wanted the goddess to be the main focus and the
cat's more as like a kind of fun nod and a little
bit of an Easter egg. I think if I had had, it
might be another future project to just have
her with like a cherry, have the big cats, but
I think that would be a little bit more. I would
need to watch a few more Photoshop tutorials
before I'd be confident to try and attempt that.
I know sort of that's a thing. I personally always
think that the cats weren't just your typical
house cats. They must have been kind of a large,
almost like a lynx or a forest wild cat type
size. Probably. Yeah. Because cats probably were
a lot bigger in those days for all I know. And
just simply because if they were pulling a chariot,
I think they must be at least pony sized, frankly.
But then it's still pathology and they were probably
magical. Magic cats, they can really want you.
But I also part of me thinks where it just suits
her as a personality to have kind of what is
like Odin has walls, why can't she have like
Panthers or tigers, maybe not lions, that's probably
been too African, but kind of like just those
like large, large cats. Maybe those are the outdoor
cats and then she has indoor cats too. Quite
possibly, quite possibly. I mean Thor has goats
to pull his chariot, so I can imagine when he
also eats them, so the kind of his food comes
mobile. mobility transport. So what's the next
photo then the Balder and Loki with a mistletoe
scene then? Yes I tried to do, yeah so again
in the hall that was the same one. There's actually
two different photos so I shot Loki separate
to Balder mainly just because I only have the
one speed light. Well it doesn't look like it,
it looks, it's supposed to be like the one singular
scene. Yeah so I really wanted just kind of the
skulky lurking in the shadows, the jealousy,
kind of the plotting in the forefront. And then
my friend Connor in the back just soaking it
all in as Balder and trying to make him as glowing
as possible. And then I, again, put the call
out. I'm like, need a bunch of people in the
hall for a little bit. Bring a weapon. And everyone's
like, all right. So a bunch of people came in
with typical weapons. And then a couple of people,
if you'll notice, one person's just holding a
chair. They were just grabbing whatever was available.
Oh gosh, yes, I see, I see. Yeah, so axes, swords.
I can't remember what other bits and bobs that
people brought in. They picked up random metal
things that were in the fire. Yes, someone has
what looks like a fire poker. Yeah, I can see
it. It's the man in the yellow. So they have
a variety of weapons and then obviously the mistletoe
in the forefront. Well he looks exceeding, he
does look like he's very much optimistic there.
His expression is spot on because for those listening
on audio, the image is all inside, what's the
name of the hall again? Wickhurst. Wickhurst,
it's inside Wickhurst. In the background you
can see, very nicely lit up by daylight or brilliant
photography skill, is a man with long kind of
browny blonde hairs, wearing a lovely red cloak,
kind of a pale tunic, brown, I want to say boots,
probably just like leg straps around shoes. Yeah,
it's kind of like orangey leg wraps around his
leather shoes. Thank you. I will probably chip
over on the terminology of what you guys do,
because you go to this depth of commitment, and
then around him, you can't really see their faces,
but there's loads of men. I don't think I see
any women with them. Yet there's definitely a
sword, a fire poker, I can see a long -handled
axe. not quite a whore axe but definitely a axe
and indeed someone has got a stool and they're
all of course like in the midst of throwing these
out like of course in the legends Frigg gets
everything to swear not to harm Balder and they
decide to test his house and throw things at
him and they miraculously bounce off or just
don't touch him at all whatever reason and of
course in the legends Loki finds out through
a bit of deceitery and wickery that mistletoe
was deemed too little, too young, to be asked
to not tan Valda, because it was only a sprig,
so he takes that sprig and turns it into a dart.
And the lighting and the look on this guy, who's
the guy playing Loki in this photo? So his name's
Tom. Tom, Tom, spot on there, spot on. It's,
it's, it's tinged with mischief, trickery, and
maybe a hint of cruelty, but the impending the
lobbying of the dad which does ultimately kill
Balder because it's the one thing that's promised
not to hurt him. So yeah, that is brilliantly
done. Absolutely brilliantly done. He was one
of the funnest ones. past, I guess, because again,
we were kind of, I'm sitting there, I'm looking
around like, who's Loki? And I was kind of like
looking at people's faces and like going, going
through people's Facebook profiles and like,
do you work as a Loki? And I was trying to figure
out and then, and it's always like, who's going
to be at events too, because it depends on who's
actually there. And then I saw that he was coming,
I'm like, yes, Tom can be my Loki, this will
work. He does it really well. And of course that
particular aspect of Loki as well is one that
not many people may know of because that aspect
of Loki then triggering the things that lead
up to Ragnarok. Of course people may know of
Loki with the Thor and his testicles gag to try
and get Skadi to laugh. Yeah, I wasn't going
to take a picture of that. Did you ever consider
doing maybe a scene from The Lay of Thrim with
Loki and Thor dressed up as bridesmaid and bride?
I did for the Thor one. I was kind of going back
and forth on what I wanted to do for Thor. So
that was Thor in a dress was definitely an option
and maybe a future one because that's just good
fun. Yeah, I think it was a toss -up. It could
have been either. Well, you've still done really
well with Thor, Loki, and Balderdare. And of
course, the next one is one of my top favorites.
It is the Valkyrie scene, and I would love for
you to describe the scene for our audio listeners.
Again, the poll went out. I need a bunch of people
to be dead. So all of those bodies are bodies
and they were very, very patient with me as like
we arranged the shield, we got all the weapons.
The smoke in the picture is in the picture that
wasn't added. That was yet another person like,
here's a smoke, a little smoke grenade. Can you
just run around for a bit? So they were being
very helpful with that. And then my lovely husband
was the tripod in this case, because he's the
one who was actually standing behind the camera
and took the picture, because I'm obviously one
of the Valkyries. You are. You are the one right
in the middle at the front as well. I guess I'm
the one who's taking the pictures. I'm in charge
of the pictures. I get to put myself in my favourite
one. Absolutely. You deserve it, you say. And
you were wearing kind of... female garments of
the time, kind of the open breasts with the large
oval brooches, and different colors, different
beads going across, and you're all, there's three
of you. There's three of you each holding spears,
interestingly of different heights, which I never
actually thought of spears being different heights,
but it adds to the drama, I think. Yeah, well
even in our combat system, we have kind of typically
two lengths of spears, single -handed spear,
two -handed spear. So they're considered different,
you'd fight with them differently. In the actual
time, they also would have had like, javelins
to throw as well. So I'm sure like, very few
things in warfare would have been absolutely
universal. It's not like nowadays where they,
there's identity, soldiers look identical, everyone
would have had whichever axe they could get,
whichever spear they could get. So yeah, again,
it was just depending on which sharp spears we
had. Now, I would love to know your thinking
behind the way you've positioned yourself and
the other ladies that are supporting you in this
scene. Of course, you're not actively, well,
like, you don't look proactively choosing the
dead as the choosers of the slain kind of thing,
but you do look fearsome and formidable, I will
say that. I wouldn't want to come across you
guys on a battlefield by the looks of those stairs
and those serious, boring faces. But it certainly...
portrayed Valkyries not in line at all with the
romanticized version that everyone has today
of them either having wings or winged horses
and of course winged helmets, which is their
trait is almost like the return of Valkyries
is to have winged helmets like the Vikings have
horned helmets and of course it's all Valkyrie's
fault and the mildopolis because he was the costume
designer so it's ultimately his fault as I found
from my humble little research. But I kind of
like it when people do try and get back in touch
with this idea of these were women, but they
were women with power and control in their own
rights, in their own domain, their own skill,
not just because they were wearing armour and
they happened to follow Odin around and do his
bidding kind of thing. Yeah, because again, they're
working for both Odin and Freya, because she
gets half. And so for them, for that moment,
I just kind of almost wanted a little bit of
a sense of stillness. When you had these big
battles, there would have been some carnage left
over. So I wanted kind of that ruin and that
almost just misty fog of waiting. Everyone who
survived has left. And now it's the Ravens and
the Valkyries to take their pick. That's a beautiful
line, by the way. That deserves to be in the
book some more. Copyright. Copy that. Write that
down. So, yeah, again, it could have been that
they were picking through, but I didn't want
them to look like scavengers, because that could
be another funny different photo of the scavengers
of the battlefield just loading up on people's
shoes or something. But I wanted them to have
a very, this is a solemn responsibility. This
is not everyone's getting picked. So you're only
getting kind of the cream of the crop. Yeah,
I think I just wanted them to be a little something
more unearthly. about them, that they're staring
off into the distance. They're just, they're
being imposing. They're not necessarily like
picking anybody up or anything because that would
seem almost too human if like you're just carrying
somebody. So yeah, I just wanted them to be that
little bit ghostly presence because according
to some of the poems like they would be there
during the battle as well. A lot of the Valkyries
names are about, are very connected to the sounds
of battles, battles cries and in some poems there,
that they are involved in the fate of the battle
and deciding the battle. So they're not just
there at the end, they're kind of there all the
way through. So in my mind, it was almost like
they've been standing there the whole time. That
they were there during the entire fight, kind
of overseeing everything. And now at the end,
it's died away. So the action has happened around
them. that's a beautiful image I really like
where your mind was working going with that one
that's because as you say that their names like
Skogul and Mist and I know that it's like to
with Spear or Shield or Hostfetter which is one
meaning I've come across I can't remember what
its actual Norse name version was but they're
so I want to say onomatopoeic in that kind of
sense and that it's so closely linked to the
Yeah, the action, the verbs of what they surround
and what they're connected to. Yeah, very often
the sound, the sound of battle was their names.
It's sheer shield smashing or whatever. It is
the noise and the chaos that kind of comes across
in their names. Mm -hmm. Yeah. So, yeah, because
of course... That instantly, of course, makes
me think back to Brynhills, the infamous Valkyrie
of them all, or the famous one, not infamous
necessarily, but the one that most people know,
if only not Wagner, maybe from Bugs Bunny, doing
their weird spin on it. Yes, where everyone knows
the flight of the Valkyries from. Yes, yes, and
there's so much more. And I was fortunate to
have recently seen the latest iteration of that
actual upper cycle. Oh, I would love to see that.
That'd be good. If it comes out on DVD, because
it was done by the British Royal Opera, and they
did actually stream it live to cinemas around
the UK and other countries as well. It was sensational
as part of their open opera season. So they do
another season in the autumn, but this was one
of their last operas for the spring. And it was
five hours and 45 minutes. OK, that's a long
one. It flew by. It had two half an hour breaks.
And thankfully, because I was watching the cinemas,
we got to hear from one of the production managers,
we got to hear from the director and the conductor
as well, and the enthusiasm and passion coming
off them all was sensational. And yeah, there's
more music than the Fight of the Valkyries, and
their version, their depiction was a modern day
kind of context, so it was like modern day clothing
-esque, but their Valkyries were beautifully
raw, as I say in one little spiel of a rant that
I did on my Instagram page afterwards. And they
were wearing simple blue dresses, almost like
overall dungaree blue with dark clobbering boots.
But they were covered in soot and mud and grime
and the hair was matted. But they looked absolutely
ecstatic about it. They didn't have a care in
the world until they realized that Brent Hilder
made a big, big, big mistake. That was a mess.
You're not going in there with manicured nails
and perfectly curled hair. It's going to get
grimy. Yes, yes, because I don't know if you've
ever come across Njál's saga and the Battle of
Pontaff with that epic scene of the Valkyries
weaving with guts and the spear shuttle and the
men's weight loom weights. Is this web woven
and wound of entrails and heavy weighted with
heads of the slain, our blood -baspattered spears,
the treadles, iron -bound the beams that battens
arrows? Wow. I salute you now. That was impressive.
Okay, tell me more. How did you come across the
Circle Apps? I'm curious. How you memorized it
and why? So it was part of my university thesis.
Oh, no way. I did my undergrad honours degree
because I did a dual degree. I did ancient and
medieval history and English literature. And
what I found was I loved where they intersected.
So I was looking a lot at historical literature.
And so, as I said, I kind of got into all of
this through Tolkien. So my topic was how fate
is used in Tolkien's legendarium and how he bases
it. He bases his first age story, so the Sumerian,
on a more Norse idea of fate and how there are
active, there are people who are enacting fate
and gods that are enacting fate and that's a
very kind of structured and tangible thing. And
then by the time he got to the third age, then
it became a more Anglo -Saxon interpretation
of fate, where it's weird, it's this force, it's
divine but it's not necessarily attributed directly
to a god. It's more, it's just that things happen
the way they're meant to happen, which is a much
more Anglo -Saxon view. So, um, yeah, the Nala
Siaga was something that I brought up quite a
bit. And hopefully I do, I'm still looking into
trying to like get a loom that I can make, obviously
not with actual heads, but I would love to do.
a photo series or video or something that will
kind of let me explore that further because that
is a personal favorite of mine. So yeah, I was
I tried to learn in the Old Norse. I'm still
working on that. I don't have to do that. But
I was starting to learn bits of it in English
just to kind of that that picture of people in
Regia do. weaving. So people will have their
looms set up that and the weights aren't heads,
they're just like balls of clay or little almost
donuts of clay. And so you see that but then
you think of like, okay, taking this very female
domestic job and then making it like the most
gory thing that you could possibly imagine where
you're weaving with guts and heads. So I do That
will be a future project at some point, because
I think that's just too cool of an image to not
do more with. And it's one that some people really
need to learn and make up to, because as much
as they've kind of tried to give, take the Valkyrie
character from the Thor films and the Marvel
universe, she's simply called Valkyrie. We know
of the name for her, I should say. So they have
become kind of like this atypical role model
for a strong independent female character, although
they are they, not so female. But it's interesting
to see kind of like trying how people are trying
to get away from like the clean, the beautiful,
the winged helmets, the armor. They are trying
to almost like refine the roots for where this...
very unique female being from the pantheon of
mythology and because there's so many of them
and yet we know so little. Because I did my degree
at Huddersfield University and it was English
studies with creative writing and nearly all
my creative writing had North elements and it
was terrible North poetry because I did terrible
forced rhyme and I remember one of the poems
was about a Valkyrie at night kind of like collecting
souls and then one of my first favourite short
stories was um called the old ways never die
and it was about a valkyrie in modern day york
collecting souls and doing that kind of things
of course i love i love york born new york and
i just can't get enough of vikings and of course
york is the hub of all vikings to me it is as
much as they had kind of like other great kind
of like domains and the other midlands for example
because they had a huge wave called the day law
yeah but yeah it's just Absolutely fascinating
and I remember, I think it was my 24th birthday,
I remember my 23rd actually. My husband, a boyfriend
at the time, went to York and we found a lovely
old photography shop called Old Times Photography.
They're sadly no longer there and no longer in
business, perhaps for every reason, Covid probably.
But they did kind of like green screen and had
fancy dress costumes and I kind of put on a gladiol
white costume that had like a nice hood, holding
a very delicately looking pretend sword and they
put like a pretend army behind me and that is
the closest I've come to being a Valkyrie. Yeah.
Closest I've come, even though it's very un -Valkyrie
-like, it's merely the weapon and the army that
represents anything Valkyrie. We were talking
about York before, so there was a few times where
at the end of the night show there was one year
I got to be one of the Valkyries. that after
everyone's fought, we come on and just kind of
walk through and like kind of tap people and
come with us to kind of create just as part of
that finale of the Valkyries choosing this lane.
And that was always just a very atmospheric,
it's dark, and we walked up to the York Eye and
then the fireworks went off. I didn't know that's
where the fireworks were. So we were in there
while they're getting set off. I'm like, this
is amazing, but this is way louder than I was
expecting. So that was a very cool like Valkyrie
ascending up the hill moment as like the music
swelling and Nigel's doing is monologuing and
it was very thematic and then it sounded like
we were in a war zone. Okay, so going slightly
off topic from the photos, I'm keen to know what
finales were you winning at Yorvi Bike Festival?
I don't know how to differentiate them necessarily
because I'll be honest... Sorry, go on. I was
in the Shield Maidens one, the one that was a
couple years ago. It was one of the few times
where they addressed the kind of myth of Shield
Maidens and the fact that they're in stories.
So the one that was like women through the Viking
Age, I was in that one. I think I did see that
one. I think I did. So it was kind of like staged
as kind of like a daughter and her father having
a conversation and then they kept flashing back
to different... I saw that one. I was there.
I was in the crowd. So I was in that one. It
was many years ago now, but yeah. Yeah, like
I said, I've been doing this for a decade, so
I can't really. And then, yeah, there was obviously
COVID called one off and then one year it was
like weather that called it off. So there is,
I can't remember, but I've been in a few. It
was the storm because I remember that was the
year that Nigel, who'd written his kind of like
dramatization of the Ibn Fadlam kind of like.
narrative of them eating the roosts and kind
of like the angel of death and the burials. And
I was really looking forward to it, but I was
also in the very, very early stages of pregnancy,
so I had horrendous fatigue. So to be honest,
part of me was a bit relieved when they decided
they couldn't do it because the wind was so strong,
it was blowing all the lights and the fences
over. Yeah, I remember that. Nobody wants to
be doing anything in that. So yeah, I couldn't
tell you which ones I've been in, but up to a
handful of yorks that... we'd do the night battles
for because during the day is the competitive
fight and then in the evening is the um is the
more showy one yeah because i think kind of like
the finale that i got to see this year with time
will tell theater was the that's the most recent
one i've been able to get to since early pregnancy
and covid finally hit because yeah all the other
years the trains out of my part in west yorkshire
just been like going into a black hole or just
never coming out. They don't ever sometimes make
it through past lead stores in Huddersfield.
There's all sorts of network problems that are
raging the network now, so there's even fewer
trains. But anyway, oh, that's awesome to think
that I got to see you doing your thing. It was
great because we had torches and stuff. And I
think any time you're carrying fire, that's just
a good feeling. Oh, OK. cool yeah i'm not i'm
not done photographing valkyries i think valkyries
will be there will be more valkyrie photos because
you need to get in touch on that one because
like they're just they're just a very cool aspect
of it and that kind of cool ghostly they're just
fun characters so yeah i mean the last but that's
what's fascinating me about them is how much
agency do they have how closely are they bound
to odin or do they kind of decide did they judge
the people that are dead on the battlefield or
does Odin give them like a list and like how
much direction do they see because I don't know
if you've ever come across Kate Hartfield's book
titled The Valkyrie. No. Put it on your reading
list, you will love it. It's a really cool retelling
of the Bolsung story from Brinhill's point of
view and Princess Gudrun's point of view and
the world building she's done with Valkyries
and explores how they become to be and how they
do what they do and of course she also explores
and acknowledges their almost counterpart which
is the Deceir Spirit Maidens which kind of like
are mentioned in sources but they're even vaguer
than the Valkyries they haven't got much purpose
but we know that everyone has a Deceir and they
can effectively be good ones or bad ones but
in her little novel universe the Deceir Spirit
Maidens were of a frayer so the Valkyries are
almost having to kind of like Fight over the
scraps? Because of course Odin doesn't like Freyja
because Freyja doesn't see the magic and she's
not willing to give up the secrets and there's
a bit of a feud going on there. But I won't say
any more because I do want you to read it and
I'd love you to tell me what you think of it
as soon as you hit the last page because I absolutely
loved it. I absolutely loved it and I was thrilled
to get here on the podcast later last year to
talk about her amazing book. But yes, sorry dubious
missus we will digress back to the photos. As
everyone should know if they've got this far
in my podcast Valkyries will just keep me going
for a very long time. So from Valkyries we then
move to another goddess that many people not
be aware of or think of much which of course
is Idun and her golden apples. So I would love
to tell you if you'd tell us more about how you
came up with this particular photo and aesthetic.
Again, I was trying to look for characters that
have a clear visual connection. So like Loki
with the mistletoe, Odin with the spear, Edun
like just need the golden apples. So again, that
was actually shot at I believe Lincoln Castle,
which is the stone wall in the back. And we just
kind of went back up into, we had a show there
and I talked to a girl in the photo before. So
I'm just like, can we come like. Can we just
grab the pictures? I, you know, just Amazon some
apples, spray painted them gold, put them in
a bowl. So this was probably the, I won't say
easiest, but this was like the one that required
the least amount of prep because I didn't need
to do tons of stuff. And I think she just kind
of radiated gold as it was. She has beautiful
blonde hair. She has like this bright golden
dress. And I'm like, even within, with no Photoshop
required, she looks like she glows a little bit.
That's a good point. So I just liked her as like
that focal point of you have all this, like,
stark green garden all around. No one needs to
notice that none of those trees are apple trees.
But yeah, just that moment and then having her
looking the other way as the eagle is off in
the distance. So again, I wanted these to be
a moment in a story. It's not her posing with
the apples. I wanted it to be the story is happening
and this is just a screenshot of it. And of course,
for those listening who might not be aware, in
this particular story from the Norse pantheon,
Thasi, a Jotun with a great ability to change
shape into animals, very much like Loki does,
he captures Eden and takes him away to... Oh
no, he gets Loki to break... He gets Loki to
draw her out and then he's able to snatch her.
Yes, he does, because initially... Odin, Loki
and I think Thor, or maybe it was just him and
I are off on having a little camping trip and
for some reason their fire is just not getting
warm and their food just never gets cooked and
so it stays cold and then Loki discovers there's
an eagle sitting in a tree and laughing at them
and saying why can't you feed me your food? Oh
it's because it's cold. and Loki challenges them
and they fly off and gets bound to this eagle
and the eagle says actually I'm Tazi and the
Jotunn and I want your Idunn with head golden
apples and if you don't bring me to her I'll
drop you from this great height and you will
die kind of thing. So Loki being Loki says okay
then yep for my life I will do what you say and
he loads it in out as he doesn't need to kidnap
her but then there's a reverse kidnapping in
that Loki gets challenged or threatened to bring
her back because all the golds are getting old
and aging. It's like their Avon apples, it keeps
them young very much. And I think he changes
her into an acorn to sneak her out of Darcy's
castle to bring her back to the gods. There's
lots of shape shifting and again, my Photoshop
is not at that level. So I'm just like, I'll
take the image pre -transformation. That would
have been an easier photo actually, just like,
here's an acorn sorted. But yeah, so I like having
- No one would get the rest of that story though,
because it's just like, yeah, it's an acorn too.
Oh, but yeah. So I like that photo having like
a little bit. I like that photo having a little
bit of just menace of like it's the eagle circling
and she doesn't notice. Yes. Yes, I think it's
really good. And I really appreciate now the
juxtaposition between her genuine brightness,
as you say, compared to the dark greens of the
grass and the leaves and the bushes and the trees
around her. And as you say, it was kind of like,
whereas Baldr was always described as the bright
one, maybe Idun herself had a certain brightness
to her because the apples were golden and they
had that such a potent magical quality that they
were so vital for the gods. Just go to show children,
you need to eat your apples, just like the gods
do. Stay young. Apple of day keeps evil giants
away. I like that, I like that. That needs to
be in a t -shirt, although very few would agree.
Niche t -shirt. So that comes to the last photo
in your at least current yet to be maybe continued
to further expanded series of photos of the gods,
which is a photo of a large man who is Thor.
He's bearded, got long hair. He's brunette, which
I quite like, because Thor's often all either
blonde or red. Yeah, he's actually a bit ginger.
Maybe he doesn't quite come across in the photo.
He's a little bit more ginger. I tried to find,
again, a little bit ginger. A little bit ginger,
cool. That's fine. But anyway, but he is being
wrestled by an old woman. She's got him in a
headlock wrapped around his neck and squeezing
hard and his mouth agaping, gasping for air,
probably begging for mercy, that kind of thing.
And then you've juxtaposed it into the, I presume
it's the interior of Wickhurst again? Yeah, it's
Wickhurst. Any chance I get, Wickhurst. And this
is all to do with the, again, often not known
story about Thor and Loki especially, is the
Utgard -Loki mischief they get on, where Loki
and Thor both very much meet their match in more
way than one. Because in the legends, for the
listeners and viewers who don't know, they go
on a travel, they come across what they think
is a cave. But then the cave starts moving and
they tumble out. And they find actually it's
not a cave. It was a glove that belonged to a
huge giant. And he's the biggest giant Thor has
ever seen. And he goes, oh, sorry, you were sleeping
in my glove. And then he offers them, I think,
food from his sack. But Thor cut and tied the
knot on the sack. So then they don't have much
food. The giant goes to sleep. And Thor hits
him three times with his hammer. And the giant
says, oh, was that a fly? Was that a raindrop
on my head? Oh, was that a leaf? because he's
oblivious that the pain does not break through
with Mjolnir. And the giant wakes up and he leads
them to his master's kingdom, which is at Gard
Loki. And then at Gard Loki challenges them to
a set of what they think are challenges that
can really succeed him because it matches their
talents. Loki has the most brilliant task of
an eating race with someone called, I want to
say Logae, but it's not that. It's a name to
do with fire, because it turns out fire is quicker,
because whilst Loki's albeit quite quickly polishing
the food off a huge platter, the other person
has eaten the food platter and possibly half
the table as well, because fire does. Fire eats
everything. Thor is challenged to wrestle an
old woman. And of course, Thor finds this incredibly
funny, like, oh, yes, it'll be easy. But no,
no, no, no, no, no. She, she, she really throws
him down. And it turns out this old woman is
old age and near death catching up because that's
someone we can't ever really defeat. Although
part of this one, and I guess this may be probably
one for your next project, is of course Thor
lifting up the footguard, Loki's cat. I did think
about the cat moment. There was a few, because
I had a lot of options for Thor. And again, I
might take a new one and maybe swap it out of
the series. I did think about, because isn't
there one of him lifting the cat as well? Yes.
Like a little paw, just to lift a little bit.
Yeah, so again, giant animals, not quite in my
skill set yet. So I did consider like, how can
I do it where it's like, I don't know, get like
a fur coat or something and make it look like
he's I didn't I don't know, I didn't I was never
able to come up with an a good way of doing that.
So I thought about that one. I thought about
him drinking the mead horn that's actually the
sea, because I thought that could be a raucous
one of just like having just a giant mead horn
and just have like water sloshing all down his,
or mead obviously, sloshing all down his face.
So yeah, Thor I kind of went back and forth and
like this series was shot over kind of the course
of a year. because it was fairly spaced out at
which events that I could do and when people
were matched up. So I think by the end of it,
I might've been running out of steam just a little
bit of like, I just need a Thor, I need one of
these to work. So trying to find when people
could be available or, and again, Thor is such
like a specific look. So Shane, who is my Thor
there, just like, he lives like in Wales, so
I'm like. when are you going to be around? So
this is actually the one that, the only Wickerst
one that's photoshopped. So I took the picture
of him and Carol elsewhere and then photoshopped
it into Wickerst, which I think I got away with,
maybe slightly less than the other one. But yeah,
I think, and I also just wanted to show, again,
the variation of Reggie. I wanted like a younger
generation out of the older generation. It's
not all just warriors. I wanted some variety.
So when it was... for fighting the old woman.
I'm just like, let's do that one. Well, those
six photos are absolutely brilliantly done and
I am very impressed with your ideas, your concept,
your staging, your lighting, of course your editing
of them. And do send my thanks to all of those
brilliant models, those brilliant members of
Regae and Gloria because... They're epic in their
own right, but they're even more epic now that
you've put them in these particular contexts.
And of course, I personally would love to see
you do more. I'd have to have a whole book. There
will be more added at some point. I know I really,
I was trying to figure out how to do tear. Tear
was one I was still trying to do, but I'm like,
okay, how can I do, because I wanted to do the
moment where he gets his hand bitten off. Again,
Fenrir is a little bit of a tricky one to cast.
So I was trying to figure out if I could do shadows.
I was trying to figure out, I'm like, okay, who
has a big dog that could, like, how could I do
this? And haven't quite, still working on it.
There might be a tier one eventually, if I ever
do a round two and try and think of a few other
ones. I would love to have a tier, because I
think he was such, a big god to the Vikings themselves.
He was like just as important as any of the other
ones and he kind of gets he's not in Marvel so
no one knows him. So I was trying to figure out
how to do that but that was that one was going
to be a little bit more complicated but maybe
sometime down the road get a tear. Oh yes. I
was just thinking what are the gods you could
use besides Tyr, of course, infamous for his
losing his hand with Fenrir. Himdall immediately,
I think, of course, blow the Gjallarhorn at the
end for Ragnarok. Although I do think it's either
Tyr or Himdall, but I know when Thor goes fishing
with that giant fellow, ironically enough, the
one giant who doesn't actually kill outright
immediately. um he has to go to either Tyr or
Himdall's parents house to buy borrow a big beer
cauldron in order to take it and then either
bring it to Valhalla but then they have to go
fishing i can't remember which way around it
was i think they had to go fishing first and
then they were able to get the cauldron but yes
there's some very weird weird stuff going on
with these north doors i can Imagine how hard
it is actually to try and make them more visual
with when you haven't got CGI Yeah, I'm just
like I would love to do like a Thor fighting
Jörmungandr, but again Just taking a picture
of like a friend's pet corn snake is not going
to a giant sea serpent make so trying to that's
where a illustration kind of is sometimes a medium
that fits these myths better, but I wanted to
kind of bring it back into the realm of photography
to a little bit more kind of realism to these.
So besides maybe continuing the Norse gods a
little bit further, are there any other super
cool photography plans you've got? This year
is kind of, I'm trying to focus on more battlefield
photography. Okay, largely because again just
trying to figure out how to make battlefield
photos look different It's very if we do it it
shows it can be tricky because there's either
audience around there's ropes and there's safety
stuff so trying to figure out again, just trying
to figure out photos that haven't been taken
before of this hobby and Yeah, so there's I haven't
Oftentimes when I'm trying to like, okay, I want
to do battlefield photography, but people are
too busy fighting. So there's a bit of a difference
between like fighting for staging and the competitive
fighting that we do. So it's hard to do both
at the same time. So that will still be, you
know, it's a constantly evolving project. I think
people... are getting more involved with the
photography stuff. They'll be like, oh, I want
to do this or I'm working on this. Can you take
some pictures of this? So around Wickers itself,
we're building new structures. So that changes
the setting of now we have these other buildings
and these other setups that we can take pictures
in. Wickers is a photographer's playground because
you don't have to hide any of the background.
if we're at events normally there's something
that's a little bit anachronistic in the background
and so you take pictures as these are show pictures
but you know you're slightly just ignoring you
know the family of five who are having a picnic
while watching the show that they're there to
see which fair enough but doesn't work for my
photos so i'm always as much as i can um the
photos that i post on my website i'm trying to
make it that there's no modern in them um but
photos are different purposes i always just like
a big part of it because I love photos of me
doing the hobby and I know when I joined that
was a big thing like I'm loving this hobby I
want pictures of me doing this so I like being
the person to supply that for a lot of the group
where I'm just like everyone's worked so hard
on their kit everyone's working so hard on their
crafts everyone wants a cool photo or video or
something of them just looking like a God of
War in the line. So being able to kind of, at
the end of a show, be like, all right, and here's
all the pictures, guys, is a kind of very special
role for me that I've kind of carved out in this
hobby. It's my hobby within a hobby. I think
that's truly wonderful that you've managed to
find the perfect theatre almost for both those
passions to come together and support the other
really really well. Yeah I mean I could quite
happily talk about my theories for ages about
my many theories and ideas especially about them
in fantasy fiction but that's a whole other episode
with a whole other lot of content and thoughts
to go into it. So for those who are listening,
and of course those on YouTube, you can of course
see these beautiful photos and all the other
ones, including the ones of the Anglo -Saxon
sites that Jen has taken on her website jenniferpetersphoto
.com. That is jenniferpetersphoto .com. And click
on the, where is it? The reenactment section,
and that is where you'll find them, but there
are other aspects to her many creative talents
also visible on that website. So yes, I guess
the final question is, kind of like besides obviously
Hastings is some time away, well I say some time
away, it's only September, it's only a couple
of months at least away, are there really the
big events that you're getting looking forward
to over the summer with Regae and Glorum? Yes,
so anyone who's interested, anything to come
to, if you just go to regia .org, we have our
entire summer diary on there. The shows that
are coming up for us, we have a show in Whirl
in June. We have every local group will have
their local shows. We're doing Detling Military
Odyssey. And then as well as that we all There'll
be another one at Wickers, but that's just members
only, so that's just for us, where we turn that
into basically just an immersive weekend where
we just live at our angle, Sax and Burr, and
then various groups will have their own local
shows or local trainings. Yeah, we normally have
one or two shows a month that people kind of
get to, and then beyond that, lots of people
will meet up. through the week or trainings or
whatever else. So it is a very close -knit society
so we see as much of each other as we can. Cool,
so if anyone's interested in wanting maybe even
following Jen's footsteps and join Regaea or
see them in their action, do go to regaea .org.
I know the details and I guess we're going to
have to pick. I know I've taken them a lot of
your evening already, but it has been a truly
wonderful and enthusiastic and passionate discussion.
And I'm so glad I tracked you down on Facebook.
Can I run this little podcast? Can I please talk
to them about these photos? Because they were
just awesome. And I'm really happy that you've
joined me on the podcast as a special bonus episode.
And of course, I wish you luck with whatever
you do next, whether it's with reenactment, your
photography. Of course, any of the research,
academic reading, et cetera, you might be doing,
for example. I mean, your thesis sounds amazing.
It's so fascinating when people dive into the
historical aspects of fantasy because that is
a whole episode and debate in itself how much
medieval influenced fantasy, now how fantasy
influenced medieval and vice versa. But yes,
I really appreciate your time. So thank you so
much for coming on today. And yes, we will look
forward to seeing what you get up to next with
your many skills. Wonderful. Thank you.