WEBVTT

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you Hello and welcome to this special bonus episode

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of Valhalla Conversations podcast. Tonight, we

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are talking to a very special photographer of

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sorts. I might say photographer of sorts. She

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is a photographer, dear ladies and gentlemen,

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because I came across her photography in a Nordic

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mythology and folklore Facebook group, and she

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has photographed the Norse gods. Quite a claim

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to fame, I'm sure you'll agree. And it is with

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some clever editing, there's great historical

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costumes, great staging, great lighting, the

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scene setting is wonderful, and she's captured

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scenes from the tales of the North Scots as well.

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There is a photo of Odin, there is a photo of

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Freya, there's a photo of Loki looking extremely

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mysterious as he eyes at Balder, who's about

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to have every weapon of mankind thrown at him.

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There is an epic photo of Valkyries on a battlefield,

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which I know this photographer is also involved.

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There's a photo of Idun with her golden apples

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and a photo of Thor being bested by the old lady

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in Udgaard Loki's hall. But that's enough of

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the photos. We are here to talk to the photographer

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behind them and how she came up with them. And

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I would like to welcome Jen Robinson. Welcome

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to the podcast. Hello. Thanks for having me.

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Now, as I was saying, I came across your photos

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in this Facebook group to do with Norse folklore

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and mythology, because that is one of my many

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passions. And as I tried to find out who did

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these photos, where these photos emerged from,

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I then discovered that it's with, well, part

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in part because you are a member of Regia and

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Galorum, are you not? Yes. So I've been a member

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of Regia and Galorum for, I think this will be

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my 10th year officially. So we're coming up on

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a decade. Battle of Hastings will be my 10th

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year anniversary. And it's kind of interesting

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that photography really brought me to reenactment

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in the first place. I had come to the UK on an

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exchange program. I was doing a degree in ancient

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and medieval history. Wow. Yeah. So there's a

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lot of crossing lines here. So I'm originally

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Canadian. I came from Calgary. And because there

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weren't a lot of medieval courses for me to take

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there. I came to the University of Kent and at

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the Freshers' Fair, there was someone there in

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medieval kit. And I'm just like, I want to come

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talk to you. So they handed me a brochure, kind

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of, it was the end of their day. So they gave

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me a stack of brochures. I messaged the page

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and I'm like, I see you have a show with the

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Battle of Hastings coming up. Can I come along

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and just take pictures? That was my plan. I was

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going to come along, like, this sounds like a

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medieval festival. I'll just come with my camera

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and enjoy it. And by the second day, I was on

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the battlefield as a water carrier, not fighting

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it. But I was in kit and carrying water behind

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the Norman troops. So it didn't take long to

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go straight from photography to reenactment.

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Wow. That's amazing. So tell me, did you always

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have an interest in medieval history, seeming

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you chose to come over all the way over here

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to study it, I assume? Yeah, I think my fascination

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with the history kind of started more with fantasy.

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I think because there's so much like fantasy

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is so heavily based in. medieval lore and medieval

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kind of just understandings. And a lot of that

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was Tolkien, who obviously that's a little bit

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full circle, because he starts with the history,

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then makes it into fantasy, and then that drew

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me back. So a lot of the books that I read in

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kind of high school were very fantasy based,

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so medieval kind of world building. And then

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that turned into a very historical base that

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I wanted to pursue through university. Brilliant.

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And was it a particular part of, of course, because

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I say medieval, that's quite a huge span of time

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in itself. Was there a particular era involving

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the Vikings, so to speak, that interested you,

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or were you just interested in the Anglo -Saxons,

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I say the Normans, of course, because they're

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very popular in Hastings? I think I have. Anything

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medieval will suffice. Like I'll go early, high,

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late. I think my original thing, just again through

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the fantasy, was normally very high medieval.

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But then when I came to Canterbury to do my studies

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and I found the reenactment group, I was kind

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of, I knew of reenactment and I was kind of looking

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for a later period society, but I ran into regia

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first and I think kind of through that gained

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much more of an appreciation for the earlier

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medieval time period. Cool, so what was it like

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then, once you kind of like after that Hastings

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event where you've got your official first bite,

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taste of re -enactment life, what was the process

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then of next becoming a member of Reg Englerem?

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Because I personally have no idea what the process

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is like. You sign a form and you pay a membership,

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it's not complicated, so it is very easy. It's

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a very diverse society that we have people from

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all age groups, all walks of life. uh it's there's

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like families so there's lots of kids and I think

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I'm now starting to become the generation like

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where they're having their own kids and then

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they're they're kind of unwillingly or willingly

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a part of Reggie as well uh so it is just this

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kind of ever -growing community of just people

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who are nerds about history and of course they

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are the biggest as far as I know at least reenactment

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group for history in the UK and we both have

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an acquaintance in Reg Engelorm of Nigel Amos

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because I've seen his wonderful work at the Orbit

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Viking Festival many times especially I will

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always remember his speech during one particular

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medieval banquet that I did at the festival it

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was the only banquet I ever managed to get to

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and he made it a cherry on the cake although

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having Einar Selvik then play a harp and blow

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a goat horn and play sing music was also a cherry

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on top but having Nigel there was equally really

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really good. New York's always a great time.

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And he's got such a talent beyond Regalorum in

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kind of like writing the scripts for a lot of

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the festival finales for Jorvik as well. But

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I know he also does other things to do with jousting

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and night contests and commentary on that kind

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of thing. I always find it fascinating how deep

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and how extensive people in reenactment groups

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pursue their history and their expertise and

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knowledge beyond, of course, the authenticity

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of the kit and the living history aspect. It's

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nice to see you all be so active beyond that

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particular event and that's where the public

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can engage with you. Yeah, I've always said it's

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one of the most diverse hobbies you could have

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because it's a million hobbies within one. If

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you want to view it as a sport, there's the combat.

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If you want to do it as a craft, there's a million

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different crafts. There's sometimes more of an

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acty side of it. If you're getting involved in

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some of the scenes and like the York stuff. So,

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and I've kind of added photography as a way to

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like, I had photography was a separate hobby,

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but it's meshed really well with turns out I

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want to take pictures of Vikings. So it works

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really well. weddings wasn't quite for me, I

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needed people in armor. No that's good, that's

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quite a unique and special talent to have because

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of course we often see photographers working

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around mock battles as I suppose they are kind

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of like I've never been of course the Hastings

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one and my last two Far North being up in North

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Yorkshire. I need to do one in Fulford basically

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then I can get to that one. Once William got

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that far north there wasn't much of a battle

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yet so I don't think you'll have it Hastings.

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That's true. But yes, it's kind of like you see

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professional photographers doing it, but I think

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having someone from within society also have

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that skill to take the photographs probably captures

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something more. Certainly with these photographs

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that you've done with your Norse gods staging,

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how did that idea first come about? because I've

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been in the society for a while and I've taken

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a lot of typical pictures, the ones that you'd

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kind of expect to get. So I've got the battles,

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we've got nice portraits of people in their kit

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and around the campfires and everything else.

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And I was kind of trying to figure out a way

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to make, like, I have this wealth of people with

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amazing kit and this wealth of history knowledge

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and this, like, all of this at my fingertips.

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And I wanted to figure out how I could basically

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make reenactment photos that no one else was

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making. So, and I was really trying to push more

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of like narrative photos because we'll often

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take pictures of like, oh, this was me doing

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this reenactment or this was like this us doing

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this battle. But I wanted photos that had more

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of a story in them. So my first series that I

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had done was looking at a bunch of Anglo -Saxon

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saints. So I kind of picked saints with with

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clearly identifiable, they're associated with

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a symbol. So I had like Hildegard von Bingen

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with her harp and I had Margaret of Scotland

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with the book. I had Augustine with like a little

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model church just to kind of be like, here's

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people in this time and here's a bit of a story

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about them. So using the photos as an entry point

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to give a little bit more detail about the saint

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itself and I figured okay well I did that for

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the Saxons now we're going to do something for

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the Vikings and I figured like the gods are the

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ones that people would be most interested and

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just visually the most interesting because again

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you could take a picture of like this is this

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king this is this king but just visually there's

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not much to distinguish them so I was looking

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for kind of moments in stories that if you know

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the stories you can look at the picture and make

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the connection if you know the mythology you

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can look at the picture and kind of figure out

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who it is without me having to even say. So what

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made you pick the particular gods and the scenes

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that you have done then? Part of it was like

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looking around Reggie's faces and like who looks

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like what. So I think my favourite casting still

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has to be my friend Steve Baker as Odin. because

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I think just he has the beard of Odin and it

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was perfect. So I grabbed that. A lot of these

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most people didn't know they were going to be

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in it until about a day or two before where I'm

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like, hey, I'm doing this thing. Can I just grab

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you for like maybe half an hour at this event

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and just go off and take some pictures of you?

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And they're like, I guess, sure, whatever. So

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Odin was my first one. He's the one I took the

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picture of first. So that was just at a training

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event. He's photoshopped into that background.

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So I just took a picture of him quickly outside.

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The blood is obviously not real. So I had a bandage

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and I had a bunch of fake blood. So I just smeared

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that over, stuck on his face, accidentally dyed

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his skin a little bit pinkish for a little bit,

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which is why there's no fake blood in any of

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the other ones. But yeah, so I took that picture

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first and that was kind of my first one, like

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really got excited about the rest of the project.

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I'm like, okay, who else do I want? I kind of

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just took it from there. Cool, so he's obviously

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in a very simple, I say simple, it looks simple.

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It's not heavily ordained or lavish. Great. lots

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of lavish colourful embroidery, kind of like

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dark grey clothing, got obviously a kind of a

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hood slash cloak around his face, blooded, and

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it is excellently blooded I will say, bandage,

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is across his right, yeah, right eye. Yeah, his

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right, yeah. Yes, right eye. I'm having to kind

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of like just... That's always been interesting,

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kind of whenever I see depictions of Odin or

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even come across him written about in both fantasy

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fiction or otherwise, kind of like which eye

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people choose to make the blind one or the one

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that's not there, whether it's the right or the

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left. I had a quick Google, I'm like, is there

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a specific one or do I get to pick? So I did

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have a little bit of a Google beforehand. But

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yeah, like for that, I wanted it to be, for these

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pictures, I was looking for moments. I wanted

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this to be the moment that he's walking away

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from Yggdrasil. You can see the ravens circling

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the trees. And just like, he's just made that

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decision. He's just gained that knowledge in

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that story. And is that a real spear he's holding

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as well? That spear is real. He was holding that

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spear. That is a sharp spear. One of our members

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had just gotten a shiny new toy and I had another

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one lined up because, again, Ricky is great because

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I can just be like... hi can whoever has a sharp

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spear please bring it to this event um and let

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me borrow it for a bit so like i had some options

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and then someone came up with this one that was

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just a gorgeous tiny like that one's really pretty

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can i borrow that for like 10 seconds i was looking

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at it before the recording well before recording

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this episode and i noticed kind of the gold kind

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of it was like a hilt of sorts just below where

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the actual blade is yeah so it's almost like

00:14:23.830 --> 00:14:28.620
a nice little four spear that has the yeah It's

00:14:28.620 --> 00:14:30.700
a really nice, of course many people forget that

00:14:30.700 --> 00:14:34.100
he had a weapon just like Thor had his weapon

00:14:34.100 --> 00:14:38.259
and the other many trinkets and toys of the gods,

00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:41.340
but I do think it's incredibly moody and atmospheric

00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:45.500
and it suits Odin's grim side because he just

00:14:45.500 --> 00:14:49.240
has a dark side to Odin, especially in the actual

00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:51.580
sagas and the lore. The fact that he gives up

00:14:51.580 --> 00:14:53.980
an eye for O gives him an eye for knowledge and

00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:56.200
hangs himself for knowledge. He's just, he's

00:14:56.200 --> 00:15:01.600
very He's cruel to others as well as himself.

00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:05.360
It's harsh. The Viking world was harsh. You're

00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.139
not going to have a Norse god that's very kind

00:15:09.139 --> 00:15:12.539
and fluffy bunny rabbits. Their world is one

00:15:12.539 --> 00:15:17.740
of violence and just grimness. It's not going

00:15:17.740 --> 00:15:20.919
to be easy. I kind of wanted to go with him as

00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:25.399
the Grey Wanderer that he's known for. So nothing.

00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:28.419
got in like full King of the Gods regalia, he's

00:15:28.419 --> 00:15:33.159
like snuck away to do this. That's a good point

00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:35.480
because of course most people in the Nick of

00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:37.120
Odin they probably think of someone with an even

00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:39.679
longer beard than that, or they think of Anthony

00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:43.279
Hopkins of course from the Thor films which was

00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:47.419
an atrocious depiction of Odin. I will never

00:15:47.419 --> 00:15:49.299
forgive them for inventing the thing that they

00:15:49.299 --> 00:15:52.779
call the Odin's sleep. He's asleep, just call

00:15:52.779 --> 00:15:55.419
it asleep. Nothing special about it because he's

00:15:55.419 --> 00:15:58.860
Odin and he's asleep, really. Anyway, less of

00:15:58.860 --> 00:16:03.639
that, the better. Okay, so which photo came after

00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:07.039
Odin then? Who was your next star model? The

00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.259
next one was the Freya one, so the meat hall,

00:16:11.019 --> 00:16:14.159
which I think is the one that I probably did

00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.279
the most. actual photoshopping in because all

00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:20.440
of those cats are photoshopped in. I was not

00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:22.159
working with cats live. That was not going to

00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:25.460
happen. I did wonder. I did wonder. But I'm assuming

00:16:25.460 --> 00:16:28.659
the people in that whole scene are real members

00:16:28.659 --> 00:16:32.039
from Reggae as well. Yep. Again, we were so that

00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:34.460
we are very, very fortunate to have the long

00:16:34.460 --> 00:16:37.399
haul. We have it's called Wickers. We have our

00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:39.320
own Anglo -Saxon long haul that's been built

00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:42.970
by members. We've had it for decades now. And

00:16:42.970 --> 00:16:45.710
it's a constantly evolving project where people

00:16:45.710 --> 00:16:48.009
are making stuff, adding stuff, fixing stuff.

00:16:48.870 --> 00:16:51.970
And any chance we get, we go down there and use

00:16:51.970 --> 00:16:55.590
it and live in it and have battles around it.

00:16:55.590 --> 00:16:59.490
And it is one of the most magical places. So

00:16:59.490 --> 00:17:01.129
we were having, I can't remember which event

00:17:01.129 --> 00:17:03.809
this is, if I'm honest, because we go up there

00:17:03.809 --> 00:17:06.930
a few times. But it was one of those things.

00:17:07.089 --> 00:17:10.210
I'm like, hi, I need like 20 people in the long

00:17:10.210 --> 00:17:14.089
haul for a bit. Or I'd go around like, you come

00:17:14.089 --> 00:17:16.069
in, you come in, you come in. Just trying to

00:17:16.069 --> 00:17:20.329
get more people in. I talked to my Freya beforehand,

00:17:20.410 --> 00:17:23.690
so that's my friend Laura. So I'm just like,

00:17:23.829 --> 00:17:25.529
okay, you're a goddess, you're psyching your

00:17:25.529 --> 00:17:27.690
people up. And she's like, all right. So I'm

00:17:27.690 --> 00:17:30.569
just like, just yell random stuff at them. Post

00:17:30.569 --> 00:17:33.569
them, just yell stuff at them. So that was an

00:17:33.569 --> 00:17:36.430
action shot where she's just, I can't remember

00:17:36.430 --> 00:17:38.009
what she was saying, but she was just like yelling

00:17:38.009 --> 00:17:42.049
vague noises. um and then yeah whether she was

00:17:42.049 --> 00:17:44.390
half sat on a throne of some sort or whether

00:17:44.390 --> 00:17:47.930
she was kind of like half half leg up on a table

00:17:47.930 --> 00:17:50.250
kind of like getting herself high up yeah yeah

00:17:50.250 --> 00:17:52.809
so she has one foot on the throne and one foot

00:17:52.809 --> 00:17:56.430
on the table ah i did wonder because of course

00:17:56.430 --> 00:17:58.589
this is why this scene particularly caught my

00:17:58.589 --> 00:18:02.130
interest not because Odin is as everywhere as

00:18:02.130 --> 00:18:04.910
Loki is if anyone can name three gods it's Odin

00:18:04.910 --> 00:18:08.329
Thor and Loki but Freya herself and this aspect

00:18:08.329 --> 00:18:10.890
of her oars having her own hall and of course

00:18:10.890 --> 00:18:13.769
hardly anyone remembers or acknowledges that

00:18:13.769 --> 00:18:15.809
she gets to choose half the led as well, not

00:18:15.809 --> 00:18:19.710
the stoning. I was like yes this is the Freya

00:18:19.710 --> 00:18:23.049
that people need to know, she is her own ruler,

00:18:23.230 --> 00:18:26.609
her own little queen in her own right and I love

00:18:26.609 --> 00:18:29.009
the concept that you've got in this scene of

00:18:29.009 --> 00:18:31.549
her with the hall and it's beautifully lit and

00:18:31.549 --> 00:18:34.509
of course I'm assuming they're a real kind of

00:18:34.569 --> 00:18:36.549
I want to say paintings, there's like Bayeux

00:18:36.549 --> 00:18:39.289
tapestry style behind her. Wall paintings, yeah,

00:18:39.309 --> 00:18:41.269
they're on the wall. Wall paintings, yeah. But

00:18:41.269 --> 00:18:43.970
that's a lovely aspect of the hall coming through

00:18:43.970 --> 00:18:48.109
as well. Yeah, so she, it was definitely one

00:18:48.109 --> 00:18:51.109
of the things when I learned that she had a hall

00:18:51.109 --> 00:18:54.089
too. I'm like, everyone knows the word Valhalla.

00:18:54.789 --> 00:18:58.730
No one's heard of Falkvang or, like, if I can

00:18:58.730 --> 00:19:02.730
do anything, I'm going to write that. So I wanted

00:19:02.730 --> 00:19:06.380
to give her, place of command because I think

00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:09.180
the female gods don't necessarily do as much

00:19:09.180 --> 00:19:12.359
in the myths and or it's like she's gonna be

00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:14.440
offered a marriage to this person or that person

00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:18.099
and she refuses and that kind of it's fine but

00:19:18.099 --> 00:19:22.380
like show her in like in her environment a little

00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:25.559
bit more so I wanted to just get that name and

00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:30.180
get her kind of um her setting in a little bit

00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:33.700
different just reframe that for her um and then

00:19:33.700 --> 00:19:35.839
like all the cats. I was going to try and add

00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:37.960
more but I ran out of places that made sense

00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:42.440
to put them. No that's good it's a really amazing

00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:44.859
photo and besides kind of like the Valkyries

00:19:44.859 --> 00:19:46.900
which is my other secret catnip when it comes

00:19:46.900 --> 00:19:49.819
to Vikings and anything to do with them um kind

00:19:49.819 --> 00:19:51.940
of like yes I completely salute you for your

00:19:51.940 --> 00:19:54.619
work with Freya. It's a wonderful nod and homage

00:19:54.619 --> 00:19:58.119
to her and the legacy that people forget to often

00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:00.960
overlook because as you say they don't Goddesses

00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.559
don't do much in the canon. And sadly, that's

00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:05.940
probably because of the person who records them

00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:08.460
all and chose not to record stories about the

00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:10.759
Goddesses as much as these recorded stories about

00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:13.799
the gods. I'm going to blame you, Snorri Sturlson,

00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:15.599
because I know a lot of other academics do. So

00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:19.819
I'm just jumping on that bandwagon. That was

00:20:19.819 --> 00:20:21.640
another great one where I just, again, Regia,

00:20:21.740 --> 00:20:24.680
I'm like, I know a bunch of you have cats. I

00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:28.619
need some pictures. So just I got it. bombarded

00:20:28.619 --> 00:20:31.779
with just pictures of cats for a while and I

00:20:31.779 --> 00:20:34.240
just had to go through them like okay like I

00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:35.420
gave them all these requirements like has to

00:20:35.420 --> 00:20:38.059
be full body has to be like they have to get

00:20:38.059 --> 00:20:42.319
perched on something uh has to be taken either

00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:45.039
like from below or I just I was just trying to

00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.500
get something that would fit My main plan was

00:20:48.500 --> 00:20:50.380
having the ones that are in the rafters and then

00:20:50.380 --> 00:20:51.839
I got one more that was perfect and just kind

00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.420
of tucked into her feet. So I was, yeah, for

00:20:55.420 --> 00:20:58.740
a while there, my Facebook messenger was just

00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:00.519
cat photo, cat photo, cat photo, cat photo, cat

00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:04.940
photo. Can I ask just about a personal interest?

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:08.579
What made you choose to have, was it purely because

00:21:08.579 --> 00:21:11.980
of the editing and the nature of editing them

00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:14.220
in, would it have been easier to do it with actual

00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:16.980
How live house cats or did you ever consider

00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:21.180
making them bigger cats bigger felines? I think

00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:26.079
as soon as something's size is off the Photoshopping

00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.740
has to be maybe better than I would be able to

00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:31.779
get it Okay, because I think there's a level

00:21:31.779 --> 00:21:38.519
of like suspense of disbelief Where Yeah, I never

00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:40.079
really I didn't really consider that I could

00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:45.460
have made him bigger I didn't but I think I still

00:21:45.460 --> 00:21:48.559
wanted the goddess to be the main focus and the

00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:50.839
cat's more as like a kind of fun nod and a little

00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:54.880
bit of an Easter egg. I think if I had had, it

00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:56.880
might be another future project to just have

00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.980
her with like a cherry, have the big cats, but

00:21:59.980 --> 00:22:03.220
I think that would be a little bit more. I would

00:22:03.220 --> 00:22:05.079
need to watch a few more Photoshop tutorials

00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:07.460
before I'd be confident to try and attempt that.

00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:13.519
I know sort of that's a thing. I personally always

00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:15.940
think that the cats weren't just your typical

00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:18.759
house cats. They must have been kind of a large,

00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.059
almost like a lynx or a forest wild cat type

00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:24.839
size. Probably. Yeah. Because cats probably were

00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:28.619
a lot bigger in those days for all I know. And

00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:30.259
just simply because if they were pulling a chariot,

00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:33.000
I think they must be at least pony sized, frankly.

00:22:33.700 --> 00:22:35.960
But then it's still pathology and they were probably

00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:38.500
magical. Magic cats, they can really want you.

00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:42.400
But I also part of me thinks where it just suits

00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:44.279
her as a personality to have kind of what is

00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:46.880
like Odin has walls, why can't she have like

00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:49.099
Panthers or tigers, maybe not lions, that's probably

00:22:49.099 --> 00:22:51.599
been too African, but kind of like just those

00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:56.000
like large, large cats. Maybe those are the outdoor

00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:58.740
cats and then she has indoor cats too. Quite

00:22:58.740 --> 00:23:03.119
possibly, quite possibly. I mean Thor has goats

00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:06.660
to pull his chariot, so I can imagine when he

00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:09.059
also eats them, so the kind of his food comes

00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:13.509
mobile. mobility transport. So what's the next

00:23:13.509 --> 00:23:16.170
photo then the Balder and Loki with a mistletoe

00:23:16.170 --> 00:23:20.210
scene then? Yes I tried to do, yeah so again

00:23:20.210 --> 00:23:24.170
in the hall that was the same one. There's actually

00:23:24.170 --> 00:23:26.589
two different photos so I shot Loki separate

00:23:26.589 --> 00:23:28.950
to Balder mainly just because I only have the

00:23:28.950 --> 00:23:32.869
one speed light. Well it doesn't look like it,

00:23:33.029 --> 00:23:34.670
it looks, it's supposed to be like the one singular

00:23:34.670 --> 00:23:39.920
scene. Yeah so I really wanted just kind of the

00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:42.759
skulky lurking in the shadows, the jealousy,

00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:46.900
kind of the plotting in the forefront. And then

00:23:46.900 --> 00:23:49.160
my friend Connor in the back just soaking it

00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:52.460
all in as Balder and trying to make him as glowing

00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:55.559
as possible. And then I, again, put the call

00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:56.740
out. I'm like, need a bunch of people in the

00:23:56.740 --> 00:24:00.019
hall for a little bit. Bring a weapon. And everyone's

00:24:00.019 --> 00:24:02.539
like, all right. So a bunch of people came in

00:24:02.539 --> 00:24:05.099
with typical weapons. And then a couple of people,

00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:06.920
if you'll notice, one person's just holding a

00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:11.759
chair. They were just grabbing whatever was available.

00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:16.759
Oh gosh, yes, I see, I see. Yeah, so axes, swords.

00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:19.400
I can't remember what other bits and bobs that

00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:22.240
people brought in. They picked up random metal

00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:26.039
things that were in the fire. Yes, someone has

00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.119
what looks like a fire poker. Yeah, I can see

00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:32.480
it. It's the man in the yellow. So they have

00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:35.920
a variety of weapons and then obviously the mistletoe

00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:41.430
in the forefront. Well he looks exceeding, he

00:24:41.430 --> 00:24:43.849
does look like he's very much optimistic there.

00:24:44.509 --> 00:24:47.750
His expression is spot on because for those listening

00:24:47.750 --> 00:24:52.289
on audio, the image is all inside, what's the

00:24:52.289 --> 00:24:55.769
name of the hall again? Wickhurst. Wickhurst,

00:24:55.930 --> 00:24:58.549
it's inside Wickhurst. In the background you

00:24:58.549 --> 00:25:01.509
can see, very nicely lit up by daylight or brilliant

00:25:01.509 --> 00:25:05.339
photography skill, is a man with long kind of

00:25:05.339 --> 00:25:08.099
browny blonde hairs, wearing a lovely red cloak,

00:25:08.579 --> 00:25:13.000
kind of a pale tunic, brown, I want to say boots,

00:25:13.299 --> 00:25:15.400
probably just like leg straps around shoes. Yeah,

00:25:15.460 --> 00:25:17.740
it's kind of like orangey leg wraps around his

00:25:17.740 --> 00:25:20.640
leather shoes. Thank you. I will probably chip

00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:23.140
over on the terminology of what you guys do,

00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.220
because you go to this depth of commitment, and

00:25:26.220 --> 00:25:28.380
then around him, you can't really see their faces,

00:25:28.420 --> 00:25:30.900
but there's loads of men. I don't think I see

00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:35.480
any women with them. Yet there's definitely a

00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:39.640
sword, a fire poker, I can see a long -handled

00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:43.150
axe. not quite a whore axe but definitely a axe

00:25:43.150 --> 00:25:45.269
and indeed someone has got a stool and they're

00:25:45.269 --> 00:25:47.769
all of course like in the midst of throwing these

00:25:47.769 --> 00:25:50.190
out like of course in the legends Frigg gets

00:25:50.190 --> 00:25:52.750
everything to swear not to harm Balder and they

00:25:52.750 --> 00:25:54.450
decide to test his house and throw things at

00:25:54.450 --> 00:25:56.849
him and they miraculously bounce off or just

00:25:56.849 --> 00:25:58.990
don't touch him at all whatever reason and of

00:25:58.990 --> 00:26:01.750
course in the legends Loki finds out through

00:26:01.750 --> 00:26:05.970
a bit of deceitery and wickery that mistletoe

00:26:05.970 --> 00:26:09.710
was deemed too little, too young, to be asked

00:26:09.710 --> 00:26:12.410
to not tan Valda, because it was only a sprig,

00:26:12.529 --> 00:26:14.650
so he takes that sprig and turns it into a dart.

00:26:15.250 --> 00:26:18.349
And the lighting and the look on this guy, who's

00:26:18.349 --> 00:26:21.210
the guy playing Loki in this photo? So his name's

00:26:21.210 --> 00:26:26.809
Tom. Tom, Tom, spot on there, spot on. It's,

00:26:26.809 --> 00:26:30.349
it's, it's tinged with mischief, trickery, and

00:26:30.349 --> 00:26:33.720
maybe a hint of cruelty, but the impending the

00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:36.079
lobbying of the dad which does ultimately kill

00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:37.799
Balder because it's the one thing that's promised

00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:40.940
not to hurt him. So yeah, that is brilliantly

00:26:40.940 --> 00:26:46.480
done. Absolutely brilliantly done. He was one

00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:49.099
of the funnest ones. past, I guess, because again,

00:26:49.180 --> 00:26:51.299
we were kind of, I'm sitting there, I'm looking

00:26:51.299 --> 00:26:53.119
around like, who's Loki? And I was kind of like

00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:55.539
looking at people's faces and like going, going

00:26:55.539 --> 00:26:57.279
through people's Facebook profiles and like,

00:26:57.380 --> 00:26:59.380
do you work as a Loki? And I was trying to figure

00:26:59.380 --> 00:27:02.019
out and then, and it's always like, who's going

00:27:02.019 --> 00:27:04.059
to be at events too, because it depends on who's

00:27:04.059 --> 00:27:06.660
actually there. And then I saw that he was coming,

00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:09.940
I'm like, yes, Tom can be my Loki, this will

00:27:09.940 --> 00:27:15.579
work. He does it really well. And of course that

00:27:15.579 --> 00:27:17.640
particular aspect of Loki as well is one that

00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:21.640
not many people may know of because that aspect

00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:23.839
of Loki then triggering the things that lead

00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:27.119
up to Ragnarok. Of course people may know of

00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:31.240
Loki with the Thor and his testicles gag to try

00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:35.960
and get Skadi to laugh. Yeah, I wasn't going

00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:49.039
to take a picture of that. Did you ever consider

00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:51.680
doing maybe a scene from The Lay of Thrim with

00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:54.480
Loki and Thor dressed up as bridesmaid and bride?

00:27:54.859 --> 00:27:57.059
I did for the Thor one. I was kind of going back

00:27:57.059 --> 00:28:00.660
and forth on what I wanted to do for Thor. So

00:28:00.660 --> 00:28:04.130
that was Thor in a dress was definitely an option

00:28:04.130 --> 00:28:07.890
and maybe a future one because that's just good

00:28:07.890 --> 00:28:12.710
fun. Yeah, I think it was a toss -up. It could

00:28:12.710 --> 00:28:17.250
have been either. Well, you've still done really

00:28:17.250 --> 00:28:20.990
well with Thor, Loki, and Balderdare. And of

00:28:20.990 --> 00:28:23.210
course, the next one is one of my top favorites.

00:28:23.509 --> 00:28:25.789
It is the Valkyrie scene, and I would love for

00:28:25.789 --> 00:28:28.369
you to describe the scene for our audio listeners.

00:28:29.430 --> 00:28:31.410
Again, the poll went out. I need a bunch of people

00:28:31.410 --> 00:28:35.279
to be dead. So all of those bodies are bodies

00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:38.720
and they were very, very patient with me as like

00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:40.940
we arranged the shield, we got all the weapons.

00:28:42.140 --> 00:28:44.740
The smoke in the picture is in the picture that

00:28:44.740 --> 00:28:48.279
wasn't added. That was yet another person like,

00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:50.559
here's a smoke, a little smoke grenade. Can you

00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:54.140
just run around for a bit? So they were being

00:28:54.140 --> 00:28:59.960
very helpful with that. And then my lovely husband

00:28:59.960 --> 00:29:02.779
was the tripod in this case, because he's the

00:29:02.779 --> 00:29:04.240
one who was actually standing behind the camera

00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:05.980
and took the picture, because I'm obviously one

00:29:05.980 --> 00:29:09.720
of the Valkyries. You are. You are the one right

00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:13.119
in the middle at the front as well. I guess I'm

00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:14.480
the one who's taking the pictures. I'm in charge

00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:17.140
of the pictures. I get to put myself in my favourite

00:29:17.140 --> 00:29:20.660
one. Absolutely. You deserve it, you say. And

00:29:20.660 --> 00:29:25.170
you were wearing kind of... female garments of

00:29:25.170 --> 00:29:27.430
the time, kind of the open breasts with the large

00:29:27.430 --> 00:29:30.549
oval brooches, and different colors, different

00:29:30.549 --> 00:29:33.609
beads going across, and you're all, there's three

00:29:33.609 --> 00:29:37.849
of you. There's three of you each holding spears,

00:29:38.089 --> 00:29:40.690
interestingly of different heights, which I never

00:29:40.690 --> 00:29:42.410
actually thought of spears being different heights,

00:29:42.450 --> 00:29:44.829
but it adds to the drama, I think. Yeah, well

00:29:44.829 --> 00:29:46.869
even in our combat system, we have kind of typically

00:29:46.869 --> 00:29:48.410
two lengths of spears, single -handed spear,

00:29:48.509 --> 00:29:52.710
two -handed spear. So they're considered different,

00:29:52.829 --> 00:29:56.089
you'd fight with them differently. In the actual

00:29:56.089 --> 00:29:58.569
time, they also would have had like, javelins

00:29:58.569 --> 00:30:03.490
to throw as well. So I'm sure like, very few

00:30:03.490 --> 00:30:04.869
things in warfare would have been absolutely

00:30:04.869 --> 00:30:07.289
universal. It's not like nowadays where they,

00:30:07.809 --> 00:30:10.049
there's identity, soldiers look identical, everyone

00:30:10.049 --> 00:30:12.309
would have had whichever axe they could get,

00:30:12.369 --> 00:30:16.410
whichever spear they could get. So yeah, again,

00:30:16.529 --> 00:30:19.430
it was just depending on which sharp spears we

00:30:19.430 --> 00:30:23.609
had. Now, I would love to know your thinking

00:30:23.609 --> 00:30:27.049
behind the way you've positioned yourself and

00:30:27.049 --> 00:30:29.009
the other ladies that are supporting you in this

00:30:29.009 --> 00:30:32.250
scene. Of course, you're not actively, well,

00:30:32.250 --> 00:30:34.910
like, you don't look proactively choosing the

00:30:34.910 --> 00:30:37.509
dead as the choosers of the slain kind of thing,

00:30:37.650 --> 00:30:40.130
but you do look fearsome and formidable, I will

00:30:40.130 --> 00:30:41.950
say that. I wouldn't want to come across you

00:30:41.950 --> 00:30:44.470
guys on a battlefield by the looks of those stairs

00:30:44.470 --> 00:30:49.490
and those serious, boring faces. But it certainly...

00:30:49.710 --> 00:30:55.329
portrayed Valkyries not in line at all with the

00:30:55.329 --> 00:30:57.950
romanticized version that everyone has today

00:30:57.950 --> 00:31:00.269
of them either having wings or winged horses

00:31:00.269 --> 00:31:03.569
and of course winged helmets, which is their

00:31:03.569 --> 00:31:06.309
trait is almost like the return of Valkyries

00:31:06.309 --> 00:31:08.109
is to have winged helmets like the Vikings have

00:31:08.109 --> 00:31:09.890
horned helmets and of course it's all Valkyrie's

00:31:09.890 --> 00:31:12.309
fault and the mildopolis because he was the costume

00:31:12.309 --> 00:31:16.470
designer so it's ultimately his fault as I found

00:31:16.470 --> 00:31:19.759
from my humble little research. But I kind of

00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:22.440
like it when people do try and get back in touch

00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:24.960
with this idea of these were women, but they

00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:28.900
were women with power and control in their own

00:31:28.900 --> 00:31:31.200
rights, in their own domain, their own skill,

00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:33.700
not just because they were wearing armour and

00:31:33.700 --> 00:31:35.500
they happened to follow Odin around and do his

00:31:35.500 --> 00:31:38.380
bidding kind of thing. Yeah, because again, they're

00:31:38.380 --> 00:31:40.559
working for both Odin and Freya, because she

00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:44.519
gets half. And so for them, for that moment,

00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:46.319
I just kind of almost wanted a little bit of

00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:49.460
a sense of stillness. When you had these big

00:31:49.460 --> 00:31:52.960
battles, there would have been some carnage left

00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:56.799
over. So I wanted kind of that ruin and that

00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:02.019
almost just misty fog of waiting. Everyone who

00:32:02.019 --> 00:32:05.279
survived has left. And now it's the Ravens and

00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:09.779
the Valkyries to take their pick. That's a beautiful

00:32:09.779 --> 00:32:11.440
line, by the way. That deserves to be in the

00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:15.819
book some more. Copyright. Copy that. Write that

00:32:15.819 --> 00:32:21.299
down. So, yeah, again, it could have been that

00:32:21.299 --> 00:32:22.819
they were picking through, but I didn't want

00:32:22.819 --> 00:32:26.119
them to look like scavengers, because that could

00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:28.099
be another funny different photo of the scavengers

00:32:28.099 --> 00:32:29.880
of the battlefield just loading up on people's

00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:32.400
shoes or something. But I wanted them to have

00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:35.279
a very, this is a solemn responsibility. This

00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:38.140
is not everyone's getting picked. So you're only

00:32:38.140 --> 00:32:42.839
getting kind of the cream of the crop. Yeah,

00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:45.180
I think I just wanted them to be a little something

00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:49.049
more unearthly. about them, that they're staring

00:32:49.049 --> 00:32:50.769
off into the distance. They're just, they're

00:32:50.769 --> 00:32:53.069
being imposing. They're not necessarily like

00:32:53.069 --> 00:32:55.029
picking anybody up or anything because that would

00:32:55.029 --> 00:32:57.410
seem almost too human if like you're just carrying

00:32:57.410 --> 00:33:01.170
somebody. So yeah, I just wanted them to be that

00:33:01.170 --> 00:33:04.869
little bit ghostly presence because according

00:33:04.869 --> 00:33:06.950
to some of the poems like they would be there

00:33:06.950 --> 00:33:09.250
during the battle as well. A lot of the Valkyries

00:33:09.250 --> 00:33:13.349
names are about, are very connected to the sounds

00:33:13.349 --> 00:33:18.500
of battles, battles cries and in some poems there,

00:33:18.700 --> 00:33:21.200
that they are involved in the fate of the battle

00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:24.180
and deciding the battle. So they're not just

00:33:24.180 --> 00:33:25.680
there at the end, they're kind of there all the

00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:28.339
way through. So in my mind, it was almost like

00:33:28.339 --> 00:33:31.680
they've been standing there the whole time. That

00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:34.180
they were there during the entire fight, kind

00:33:34.180 --> 00:33:37.359
of overseeing everything. And now at the end,

00:33:37.539 --> 00:33:40.539
it's died away. So the action has happened around

00:33:40.539 --> 00:33:45.509
them. that's a beautiful image I really like

00:33:45.509 --> 00:33:48.049
where your mind was working going with that one

00:33:48.049 --> 00:33:51.410
that's because as you say that their names like

00:33:51.410 --> 00:33:54.210
Skogul and Mist and I know that it's like to

00:33:54.210 --> 00:33:58.609
with Spear or Shield or Hostfetter which is one

00:33:58.609 --> 00:33:59.970
meaning I've come across I can't remember what

00:33:59.970 --> 00:34:03.849
its actual Norse name version was but they're

00:34:03.849 --> 00:34:09.269
so I want to say onomatopoeic in that kind of

00:34:09.269 --> 00:34:12.730
sense and that it's so closely linked to the

00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:16.320
Yeah, the action, the verbs of what they surround

00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:18.460
and what they're connected to. Yeah, very often

00:34:18.460 --> 00:34:20.980
the sound, the sound of battle was their names.

00:34:21.139 --> 00:34:24.019
It's sheer shield smashing or whatever. It is

00:34:24.019 --> 00:34:26.340
the noise and the chaos that kind of comes across

00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:35.480
in their names. Mm -hmm. Yeah. So, yeah, because

00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:37.670
of course... That instantly, of course, makes

00:34:37.670 --> 00:34:40.269
me think back to Brynhills, the infamous Valkyrie

00:34:40.269 --> 00:34:42.750
of them all, or the famous one, not infamous

00:34:42.750 --> 00:34:46.230
necessarily, but the one that most people know,

00:34:46.429 --> 00:34:49.590
if only not Wagner, maybe from Bugs Bunny, doing

00:34:49.590 --> 00:34:53.590
their weird spin on it. Yes, where everyone knows

00:34:53.590 --> 00:34:57.329
the flight of the Valkyries from. Yes, yes, and

00:34:57.329 --> 00:34:59.389
there's so much more. And I was fortunate to

00:34:59.389 --> 00:35:01.510
have recently seen the latest iteration of that

00:35:01.510 --> 00:35:03.690
actual upper cycle. Oh, I would love to see that.

00:35:03.690 --> 00:35:07.739
That'd be good. If it comes out on DVD, because

00:35:07.739 --> 00:35:09.760
it was done by the British Royal Opera, and they

00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:11.820
did actually stream it live to cinemas around

00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:14.619
the UK and other countries as well. It was sensational

00:35:14.619 --> 00:35:17.800
as part of their open opera season. So they do

00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:19.639
another season in the autumn, but this was one

00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:22.920
of their last operas for the spring. And it was

00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:25.380
five hours and 45 minutes. OK, that's a long

00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:28.260
one. It flew by. It had two half an hour breaks.

00:35:28.420 --> 00:35:30.460
And thankfully, because I was watching the cinemas,

00:35:30.579 --> 00:35:34.019
we got to hear from one of the production managers,

00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:36.219
we got to hear from the director and the conductor

00:35:36.219 --> 00:35:38.079
as well, and the enthusiasm and passion coming

00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:42.699
off them all was sensational. And yeah, there's

00:35:42.699 --> 00:35:45.539
more music than the Fight of the Valkyries, and

00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:48.320
their version, their depiction was a modern day

00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:50.559
kind of context, so it was like modern day clothing

00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:54.300
-esque, but their Valkyries were beautifully

00:35:54.300 --> 00:35:57.760
raw, as I say in one little spiel of a rant that

00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:00.780
I did on my Instagram page afterwards. And they

00:36:00.780 --> 00:36:03.420
were wearing simple blue dresses, almost like

00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:06.380
overall dungaree blue with dark clobbering boots.

00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:09.460
But they were covered in soot and mud and grime

00:36:09.460 --> 00:36:12.539
and the hair was matted. But they looked absolutely

00:36:12.539 --> 00:36:15.519
ecstatic about it. They didn't have a care in

00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:17.460
the world until they realized that Brent Hilder

00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:20.360
made a big, big, big mistake. That was a mess.

00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:22.820
You're not going in there with manicured nails

00:36:22.820 --> 00:36:26.480
and perfectly curled hair. It's going to get

00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:29.429
grimy. Yes, yes, because I don't know if you've

00:36:29.429 --> 00:36:32.610
ever come across Njál's saga and the Battle of

00:36:32.610 --> 00:36:35.849
Pontaff with that epic scene of the Valkyries

00:36:35.849 --> 00:36:39.829
weaving with guts and the spear shuttle and the

00:36:39.829 --> 00:36:44.130
men's weight loom weights. Is this web woven

00:36:44.130 --> 00:36:46.130
and wound of entrails and heavy weighted with

00:36:46.130 --> 00:36:48.309
heads of the slain, our blood -baspattered spears,

00:36:48.409 --> 00:36:50.670
the treadles, iron -bound the beams that battens

00:36:50.670 --> 00:36:57.119
arrows? Wow. I salute you now. That was impressive.

00:37:00.500 --> 00:37:02.840
Okay, tell me more. How did you come across the

00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:05.719
Circle Apps? I'm curious. How you memorized it

00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:08.980
and why? So it was part of my university thesis.

00:37:10.260 --> 00:37:16.019
Oh, no way. I did my undergrad honours degree

00:37:16.019 --> 00:37:18.659
because I did a dual degree. I did ancient and

00:37:18.659 --> 00:37:22.139
medieval history and English literature. And

00:37:22.139 --> 00:37:25.039
what I found was I loved where they intersected.

00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:27.719
So I was looking a lot at historical literature.

00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:32.519
And so, as I said, I kind of got into all of

00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:39.300
this through Tolkien. So my topic was how fate

00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:43.719
is used in Tolkien's legendarium and how he bases

00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:48.800
it. He bases his first age story, so the Sumerian,

00:37:49.340 --> 00:37:53.019
on a more Norse idea of fate and how there are

00:37:53.019 --> 00:37:55.760
active, there are people who are enacting fate

00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:59.960
and gods that are enacting fate and that's a

00:37:59.960 --> 00:38:03.519
very kind of structured and tangible thing. And

00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:07.820
then by the time he got to the third age, then

00:38:07.820 --> 00:38:10.460
it became a more Anglo -Saxon interpretation

00:38:10.460 --> 00:38:14.360
of fate, where it's weird, it's this force, it's

00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:17.280
divine but it's not necessarily attributed directly

00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:21.820
to a god. It's more, it's just that things happen

00:38:21.820 --> 00:38:24.360
the way they're meant to happen, which is a much

00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:30.099
more Anglo -Saxon view. So, um, yeah, the Nala

00:38:30.099 --> 00:38:32.639
Siaga was something that I brought up quite a

00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:36.320
bit. And hopefully I do, I'm still looking into

00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:39.480
trying to like get a loom that I can make, obviously

00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:42.260
not with actual heads, but I would love to do.

00:38:42.670 --> 00:38:46.750
a photo series or video or something that will

00:38:46.750 --> 00:38:49.289
kind of let me explore that further because that

00:38:49.289 --> 00:38:51.909
is a personal favorite of mine. So yeah, I was

00:38:51.909 --> 00:38:53.750
I tried to learn in the Old Norse. I'm still

00:38:53.750 --> 00:38:56.130
working on that. I don't have to do that. But

00:38:56.130 --> 00:38:59.630
I was starting to learn bits of it in English

00:38:59.630 --> 00:39:05.750
just to kind of that that picture of people in

00:39:05.750 --> 00:39:08.530
Regia do. weaving. So people will have their

00:39:08.530 --> 00:39:11.730
looms set up that and the weights aren't heads,

00:39:11.849 --> 00:39:14.269
they're just like balls of clay or little almost

00:39:14.269 --> 00:39:18.110
donuts of clay. And so you see that but then

00:39:18.110 --> 00:39:21.190
you think of like, okay, taking this very female

00:39:21.190 --> 00:39:24.570
domestic job and then making it like the most

00:39:24.570 --> 00:39:27.110
gory thing that you could possibly imagine where

00:39:27.110 --> 00:39:32.519
you're weaving with guts and heads. So I do That

00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:34.619
will be a future project at some point, because

00:39:34.619 --> 00:39:37.559
I think that's just too cool of an image to not

00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:42.300
do more with. And it's one that some people really

00:39:42.300 --> 00:39:45.739
need to learn and make up to, because as much

00:39:45.739 --> 00:39:50.420
as they've kind of tried to give, take the Valkyrie

00:39:50.420 --> 00:39:52.420
character from the Thor films and the Marvel

00:39:52.420 --> 00:39:56.119
universe, she's simply called Valkyrie. We know

00:39:56.119 --> 00:40:01.579
of the name for her, I should say. So they have

00:40:01.579 --> 00:40:04.860
become kind of like this atypical role model

00:40:04.860 --> 00:40:08.460
for a strong independent female character, although

00:40:08.460 --> 00:40:13.460
they are they, not so female. But it's interesting

00:40:13.460 --> 00:40:16.960
to see kind of like trying how people are trying

00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:19.559
to get away from like the clean, the beautiful,

00:40:20.300 --> 00:40:22.019
the winged helmets, the armor. They are trying

00:40:22.019 --> 00:40:25.480
to almost like refine the roots for where this...

00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:30.820
very unique female being from the pantheon of

00:40:30.820 --> 00:40:32.360
mythology and because there's so many of them

00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:36.840
and yet we know so little. Because I did my degree

00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:38.960
at Huddersfield University and it was English

00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:41.480
studies with creative writing and nearly all

00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:43.500
my creative writing had North elements and it

00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:46.800
was terrible North poetry because I did terrible

00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:48.300
forced rhyme and I remember one of the poems

00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:51.019
was about a Valkyrie at night kind of like collecting

00:40:51.019 --> 00:40:53.159
souls and then one of my first favourite short

00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:57.690
stories was um called the old ways never die

00:40:57.690 --> 00:41:00.070
and it was about a valkyrie in modern day york

00:41:00.070 --> 00:41:02.289
collecting souls and doing that kind of things

00:41:02.289 --> 00:41:04.489
of course i love i love york born new york and

00:41:04.489 --> 00:41:06.469
i just can't get enough of vikings and of course

00:41:06.469 --> 00:41:10.070
york is the hub of all vikings to me it is as

00:41:10.070 --> 00:41:12.250
much as they had kind of like other great kind

00:41:12.250 --> 00:41:14.929
of like domains and the other midlands for example

00:41:14.929 --> 00:41:17.409
because they had a huge wave called the day law

00:41:17.409 --> 00:41:22.380
yeah but yeah it's just Absolutely fascinating

00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:25.639
and I remember, I think it was my 24th birthday,

00:41:26.019 --> 00:41:30.519
I remember my 23rd actually. My husband, a boyfriend

00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:32.719
at the time, went to York and we found a lovely

00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:35.900
old photography shop called Old Times Photography.

00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:37.800
They're sadly no longer there and no longer in

00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:40.280
business, perhaps for every reason, Covid probably.

00:41:41.079 --> 00:41:43.139
But they did kind of like green screen and had

00:41:43.139 --> 00:41:45.679
fancy dress costumes and I kind of put on a gladiol

00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:48.219
white costume that had like a nice hood, holding

00:41:48.219 --> 00:41:50.940
a very delicately looking pretend sword and they

00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:53.460
put like a pretend army behind me and that is

00:41:53.460 --> 00:41:56.599
the closest I've come to being a Valkyrie. Yeah.

00:41:56.719 --> 00:41:59.139
Closest I've come, even though it's very un -Valkyrie

00:41:59.139 --> 00:42:02.480
-like, it's merely the weapon and the army that

00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:04.920
represents anything Valkyrie. We were talking

00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:07.900
about York before, so there was a few times where

00:42:07.900 --> 00:42:12.320
at the end of the night show there was one year

00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:14.880
I got to be one of the Valkyries. that after

00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:16.920
everyone's fought, we come on and just kind of

00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:19.139
walk through and like kind of tap people and

00:42:19.139 --> 00:42:21.860
come with us to kind of create just as part of

00:42:21.860 --> 00:42:24.980
that finale of the Valkyries choosing this lane.

00:42:25.019 --> 00:42:27.780
And that was always just a very atmospheric,

00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:31.820
it's dark, and we walked up to the York Eye and

00:42:31.820 --> 00:42:34.239
then the fireworks went off. I didn't know that's

00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:37.280
where the fireworks were. So we were in there

00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:39.420
while they're getting set off. I'm like, this

00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:41.639
is amazing, but this is way louder than I was

00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:46.119
expecting. So that was a very cool like Valkyrie

00:42:46.119 --> 00:42:48.940
ascending up the hill moment as like the music

00:42:48.940 --> 00:42:52.559
swelling and Nigel's doing is monologuing and

00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:55.420
it was very thematic and then it sounded like

00:42:55.420 --> 00:42:58.739
we were in a war zone. Okay, so going slightly

00:42:58.739 --> 00:43:00.699
off topic from the photos, I'm keen to know what

00:43:00.699 --> 00:43:02.960
finales were you winning at Yorvi Bike Festival?

00:43:07.019 --> 00:43:09.179
I don't know how to differentiate them necessarily

00:43:09.179 --> 00:43:14.139
because I'll be honest... Sorry, go on. I was

00:43:14.139 --> 00:43:15.739
in the Shield Maidens one, the one that was a

00:43:15.739 --> 00:43:18.380
couple years ago. It was one of the few times

00:43:18.380 --> 00:43:21.659
where they addressed the kind of myth of Shield

00:43:21.659 --> 00:43:23.739
Maidens and the fact that they're in stories.

00:43:24.099 --> 00:43:25.760
So the one that was like women through the Viking

00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:29.420
Age, I was in that one. I think I did see that

00:43:29.420 --> 00:43:32.659
one. I think I did. So it was kind of like staged

00:43:32.659 --> 00:43:34.860
as kind of like a daughter and her father having

00:43:34.860 --> 00:43:36.820
a conversation and then they kept flashing back

00:43:36.820 --> 00:43:39.380
to different... I saw that one. I was there.

00:43:39.500 --> 00:43:42.559
I was in the crowd. So I was in that one. It

00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:45.039
was many years ago now, but yeah. Yeah, like

00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:46.519
I said, I've been doing this for a decade, so

00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:50.420
I can't really. And then, yeah, there was obviously

00:43:50.420 --> 00:43:52.960
COVID called one off and then one year it was

00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:55.719
like weather that called it off. So there is,

00:43:56.059 --> 00:43:58.960
I can't remember, but I've been in a few. It

00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:00.780
was the storm because I remember that was the

00:44:00.780 --> 00:44:04.579
year that Nigel, who'd written his kind of like

00:44:04.579 --> 00:44:06.900
dramatization of the Ibn Fadlam kind of like.

00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:09.480
narrative of them eating the roosts and kind

00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:11.519
of like the angel of death and the burials. And

00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:12.960
I was really looking forward to it, but I was

00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:15.019
also in the very, very early stages of pregnancy,

00:44:15.300 --> 00:44:17.960
so I had horrendous fatigue. So to be honest,

00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:20.260
part of me was a bit relieved when they decided

00:44:20.260 --> 00:44:22.099
they couldn't do it because the wind was so strong,

00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:23.920
it was blowing all the lights and the fences

00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:28.400
over. Yeah, I remember that. Nobody wants to

00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:30.340
be doing anything in that. So yeah, I couldn't

00:44:30.340 --> 00:44:32.219
tell you which ones I've been in, but up to a

00:44:32.219 --> 00:44:35.090
handful of yorks that... we'd do the night battles

00:44:35.090 --> 00:44:36.710
for because during the day is the competitive

00:44:36.710 --> 00:44:41.010
fight and then in the evening is the um is the

00:44:41.010 --> 00:44:44.050
more showy one yeah because i think kind of like

00:44:44.050 --> 00:44:46.170
the finale that i got to see this year with time

00:44:46.170 --> 00:44:49.110
will tell theater was the that's the most recent

00:44:49.110 --> 00:44:51.630
one i've been able to get to since early pregnancy

00:44:51.630 --> 00:44:54.510
and covid finally hit because yeah all the other

00:44:54.510 --> 00:44:57.090
years the trains out of my part in west yorkshire

00:44:57.090 --> 00:44:59.340
just been like going into a black hole or just

00:44:59.340 --> 00:45:02.199
never coming out. They don't ever sometimes make

00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:03.980
it through past lead stores in Huddersfield.

00:45:04.219 --> 00:45:06.619
There's all sorts of network problems that are

00:45:06.619 --> 00:45:08.179
raging the network now, so there's even fewer

00:45:08.179 --> 00:45:12.860
trains. But anyway, oh, that's awesome to think

00:45:12.860 --> 00:45:15.860
that I got to see you doing your thing. It was

00:45:15.860 --> 00:45:17.679
great because we had torches and stuff. And I

00:45:17.679 --> 00:45:20.679
think any time you're carrying fire, that's just

00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:27.750
a good feeling. Oh, OK. cool yeah i'm not i'm

00:45:27.750 --> 00:45:29.889
not done photographing valkyries i think valkyries

00:45:29.889 --> 00:45:33.269
will be there will be more valkyrie photos because

00:45:33.269 --> 00:45:35.670
you need to get in touch on that one because

00:45:35.670 --> 00:45:39.269
like they're just they're just a very cool aspect

00:45:39.269 --> 00:45:42.750
of it and that kind of cool ghostly they're just

00:45:42.750 --> 00:45:46.570
fun characters so yeah i mean the last but that's

00:45:46.570 --> 00:45:49.989
what's fascinating me about them is how much

00:45:49.989 --> 00:45:52.909
agency do they have how closely are they bound

00:45:52.909 --> 00:45:57.880
to odin or do they kind of decide did they judge

00:45:57.880 --> 00:46:00.280
the people that are dead on the battlefield or

00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:02.800
does Odin give them like a list and like how

00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:04.900
much direction do they see because I don't know

00:46:04.900 --> 00:46:08.880
if you've ever come across Kate Hartfield's book

00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:13.719
titled The Valkyrie. No. Put it on your reading

00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:17.099
list, you will love it. It's a really cool retelling

00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:20.639
of the Bolsung story from Brinhill's point of

00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:23.460
view and Princess Gudrun's point of view and

00:46:23.460 --> 00:46:27.559
the world building she's done with Valkyries

00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:29.639
and explores how they become to be and how they

00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:32.380
do what they do and of course she also explores

00:46:32.380 --> 00:46:34.280
and acknowledges their almost counterpart which

00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:37.119
is the Deceir Spirit Maidens which kind of like

00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:39.380
are mentioned in sources but they're even vaguer

00:46:39.380 --> 00:46:41.900
than the Valkyries they haven't got much purpose

00:46:41.900 --> 00:46:44.340
but we know that everyone has a Deceir and they

00:46:44.340 --> 00:46:47.159
can effectively be good ones or bad ones but

00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:50.780
in her little novel universe the Deceir Spirit

00:46:50.780 --> 00:46:53.340
Maidens were of a frayer so the Valkyries are

00:46:53.340 --> 00:46:56.380
almost having to kind of like Fight over the

00:46:56.380 --> 00:47:00.179
scraps? Because of course Odin doesn't like Freyja

00:47:00.179 --> 00:47:02.340
because Freyja doesn't see the magic and she's

00:47:02.340 --> 00:47:03.980
not willing to give up the secrets and there's

00:47:03.980 --> 00:47:08.239
a bit of a feud going on there. But I won't say

00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:10.019
any more because I do want you to read it and

00:47:10.019 --> 00:47:11.920
I'd love you to tell me what you think of it

00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:13.920
as soon as you hit the last page because I absolutely

00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:16.539
loved it. I absolutely loved it and I was thrilled

00:47:16.539 --> 00:47:18.619
to get here on the podcast later last year to

00:47:18.619 --> 00:47:22.780
talk about her amazing book. But yes, sorry dubious

00:47:22.780 --> 00:47:26.920
missus we will digress back to the photos. As

00:47:26.920 --> 00:47:28.780
everyone should know if they've got this far

00:47:28.780 --> 00:47:31.219
in my podcast Valkyries will just keep me going

00:47:31.219 --> 00:47:34.199
for a very long time. So from Valkyries we then

00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:36.260
move to another goddess that many people not

00:47:36.260 --> 00:47:38.440
be aware of or think of much which of course

00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:42.519
is Idun and her golden apples. So I would love

00:47:42.519 --> 00:47:44.980
to tell you if you'd tell us more about how you

00:47:44.980 --> 00:47:47.579
came up with this particular photo and aesthetic.

00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:50.679
Again, I was trying to look for characters that

00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:55.099
have a clear visual connection. So like Loki

00:47:55.099 --> 00:47:58.000
with the mistletoe, Odin with the spear, Edun

00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:02.059
like just need the golden apples. So again, that

00:48:02.059 --> 00:48:05.099
was actually shot at I believe Lincoln Castle,

00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:08.079
which is the stone wall in the back. And we just

00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:11.039
kind of went back up into, we had a show there

00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:16.099
and I talked to a girl in the photo before. So

00:48:16.099 --> 00:48:18.619
I'm just like, can we come like. Can we just

00:48:18.619 --> 00:48:21.400
grab the pictures? I, you know, just Amazon some

00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:23.199
apples, spray painted them gold, put them in

00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:26.820
a bowl. So this was probably the, I won't say

00:48:26.820 --> 00:48:28.780
easiest, but this was like the one that required

00:48:28.780 --> 00:48:31.380
the least amount of prep because I didn't need

00:48:31.380 --> 00:48:34.400
to do tons of stuff. And I think she just kind

00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:37.179
of radiated gold as it was. She has beautiful

00:48:37.179 --> 00:48:39.039
blonde hair. She has like this bright golden

00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:42.000
dress. And I'm like, even within, with no Photoshop

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:44.460
required, she looks like she glows a little bit.

00:48:45.139 --> 00:48:49.230
That's a good point. So I just liked her as like

00:48:49.230 --> 00:48:51.849
that focal point of you have all this, like,

00:48:51.869 --> 00:48:54.989
stark green garden all around. No one needs to

00:48:54.989 --> 00:48:56.789
notice that none of those trees are apple trees.

00:48:58.409 --> 00:49:02.289
But yeah, just that moment and then having her

00:49:02.289 --> 00:49:05.829
looking the other way as the eagle is off in

00:49:05.829 --> 00:49:09.010
the distance. So again, I wanted these to be

00:49:09.010 --> 00:49:11.989
a moment in a story. It's not her posing with

00:49:11.989 --> 00:49:15.210
the apples. I wanted it to be the story is happening

00:49:15.210 --> 00:49:20.050
and this is just a screenshot of it. And of course,

00:49:20.070 --> 00:49:22.489
for those listening who might not be aware, in

00:49:22.489 --> 00:49:25.769
this particular story from the Norse pantheon,

00:49:26.170 --> 00:49:28.969
Thasi, a Jotun with a great ability to change

00:49:28.969 --> 00:49:31.769
shape into animals, very much like Loki does,

00:49:32.329 --> 00:49:35.610
he captures Eden and takes him away to... Oh

00:49:35.610 --> 00:49:39.130
no, he gets Loki to break... He gets Loki to

00:49:39.130 --> 00:49:42.869
draw her out and then he's able to snatch her.

00:49:43.829 --> 00:49:48.480
Yes, he does, because initially... Odin, Loki

00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:50.400
and I think Thor, or maybe it was just him and

00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:52.599
I are off on having a little camping trip and

00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:54.380
for some reason their fire is just not getting

00:49:54.380 --> 00:49:58.059
warm and their food just never gets cooked and

00:49:58.059 --> 00:50:00.619
so it stays cold and then Loki discovers there's

00:50:00.619 --> 00:50:02.320
an eagle sitting in a tree and laughing at them

00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:04.380
and saying why can't you feed me your food? Oh

00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:07.429
it's because it's cold. and Loki challenges them

00:50:07.429 --> 00:50:10.469
and they fly off and gets bound to this eagle

00:50:10.469 --> 00:50:12.150
and the eagle says actually I'm Tazi and the

00:50:12.150 --> 00:50:14.030
Jotunn and I want your Idunn with head golden

00:50:14.030 --> 00:50:16.309
apples and if you don't bring me to her I'll

00:50:16.309 --> 00:50:17.750
drop you from this great height and you will

00:50:17.750 --> 00:50:21.090
die kind of thing. So Loki being Loki says okay

00:50:21.090 --> 00:50:23.570
then yep for my life I will do what you say and

00:50:23.570 --> 00:50:26.050
he loads it in out as he doesn't need to kidnap

00:50:26.050 --> 00:50:28.010
her but then there's a reverse kidnapping in

00:50:28.010 --> 00:50:30.900
that Loki gets challenged or threatened to bring

00:50:30.900 --> 00:50:33.320
her back because all the golds are getting old

00:50:33.320 --> 00:50:38.559
and aging. It's like their Avon apples, it keeps

00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:42.760
them young very much. And I think he changes

00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:46.019
her into an acorn to sneak her out of Darcy's

00:50:46.019 --> 00:50:49.800
castle to bring her back to the gods. There's

00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:52.280
lots of shape shifting and again, my Photoshop

00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:55.420
is not at that level. So I'm just like, I'll

00:50:55.420 --> 00:50:59.059
take the image pre -transformation. That would

00:50:59.059 --> 00:51:00.420
have been an easier photo actually, just like,

00:51:00.539 --> 00:51:05.619
here's an acorn sorted. But yeah, so I like having

00:51:05.619 --> 00:51:07.579
- No one would get the rest of that story though,

00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:11.639
because it's just like, yeah, it's an acorn too.

00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:16.079
Oh, but yeah. So I like that photo having like

00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:18.159
a little bit. I like that photo having a little

00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:21.059
bit of just menace of like it's the eagle circling

00:51:21.059 --> 00:51:24.760
and she doesn't notice. Yes. Yes, I think it's

00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:26.659
really good. And I really appreciate now the

00:51:26.659 --> 00:51:29.360
juxtaposition between her genuine brightness,

00:51:29.500 --> 00:51:32.219
as you say, compared to the dark greens of the

00:51:32.219 --> 00:51:35.000
grass and the leaves and the bushes and the trees

00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:39.480
around her. And as you say, it was kind of like,

00:51:39.579 --> 00:51:41.599
whereas Baldr was always described as the bright

00:51:41.599 --> 00:51:44.260
one, maybe Idun herself had a certain brightness

00:51:44.260 --> 00:51:47.019
to her because the apples were golden and they

00:51:47.019 --> 00:51:49.300
had that such a potent magical quality that they

00:51:49.300 --> 00:51:52.340
were so vital for the gods. Just go to show children,

00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:54.320
you need to eat your apples, just like the gods

00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:59.000
do. Stay young. Apple of day keeps evil giants

00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:03.880
away. I like that, I like that. That needs to

00:52:03.880 --> 00:52:06.119
be in a t -shirt, although very few would agree.

00:52:07.159 --> 00:52:12.460
Niche t -shirt. So that comes to the last photo

00:52:12.460 --> 00:52:15.969
in your at least current yet to be maybe continued

00:52:15.969 --> 00:52:19.210
to further expanded series of photos of the gods,

00:52:19.369 --> 00:52:24.570
which is a photo of a large man who is Thor.

00:52:25.210 --> 00:52:27.590
He's bearded, got long hair. He's brunette, which

00:52:27.590 --> 00:52:29.250
I quite like, because Thor's often all either

00:52:29.250 --> 00:52:31.670
blonde or red. Yeah, he's actually a bit ginger.

00:52:31.750 --> 00:52:33.030
Maybe he doesn't quite come across in the photo.

00:52:33.449 --> 00:52:35.349
He's a little bit more ginger. I tried to find,

00:52:35.750 --> 00:52:38.730
again, a little bit ginger. A little bit ginger,

00:52:38.889 --> 00:52:41.059
cool. That's fine. But anyway, but he is being

00:52:41.059 --> 00:52:44.280
wrestled by an old woman. She's got him in a

00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:48.679
headlock wrapped around his neck and squeezing

00:52:48.679 --> 00:52:51.920
hard and his mouth agaping, gasping for air,

00:52:52.099 --> 00:52:53.719
probably begging for mercy, that kind of thing.

00:52:54.219 --> 00:52:57.980
And then you've juxtaposed it into the, I presume

00:52:57.980 --> 00:53:00.219
it's the interior of Wickhurst again? Yeah, it's

00:53:00.219 --> 00:53:04.199
Wickhurst. Any chance I get, Wickhurst. And this

00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:07.480
is all to do with the, again, often not known

00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:10.199
story about Thor and Loki especially, is the

00:53:10.199 --> 00:53:13.639
Utgard -Loki mischief they get on, where Loki

00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:16.519
and Thor both very much meet their match in more

00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:20.920
way than one. Because in the legends, for the

00:53:20.920 --> 00:53:23.039
listeners and viewers who don't know, they go

00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:26.360
on a travel, they come across what they think

00:53:26.360 --> 00:53:29.519
is a cave. But then the cave starts moving and

00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:30.980
they tumble out. And they find actually it's

00:53:30.980 --> 00:53:33.039
not a cave. It was a glove that belonged to a

00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:35.460
huge giant. And he's the biggest giant Thor has

00:53:35.460 --> 00:53:38.000
ever seen. And he goes, oh, sorry, you were sleeping

00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:39.980
in my glove. And then he offers them, I think,

00:53:40.139 --> 00:53:42.340
food from his sack. But Thor cut and tied the

00:53:42.340 --> 00:53:46.039
knot on the sack. So then they don't have much

00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:48.420
food. The giant goes to sleep. And Thor hits

00:53:48.420 --> 00:53:50.719
him three times with his hammer. And the giant

00:53:50.719 --> 00:53:52.619
says, oh, was that a fly? Was that a raindrop

00:53:52.619 --> 00:53:55.739
on my head? Oh, was that a leaf? because he's

00:53:55.739 --> 00:53:58.139
oblivious that the pain does not break through

00:53:58.139 --> 00:54:01.739
with Mjolnir. And the giant wakes up and he leads

00:54:01.739 --> 00:54:03.840
them to his master's kingdom, which is at Gard

00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:08.199
Loki. And then at Gard Loki challenges them to

00:54:08.199 --> 00:54:11.260
a set of what they think are challenges that

00:54:11.260 --> 00:54:13.219
can really succeed him because it matches their

00:54:13.219 --> 00:54:17.599
talents. Loki has the most brilliant task of

00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:22.679
an eating race with someone called, I want to

00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:25.530
say Logae, but it's not that. It's a name to

00:54:25.530 --> 00:54:28.269
do with fire, because it turns out fire is quicker,

00:54:29.090 --> 00:54:31.650
because whilst Loki's albeit quite quickly polishing

00:54:31.650 --> 00:54:33.929
the food off a huge platter, the other person

00:54:33.929 --> 00:54:36.110
has eaten the food platter and possibly half

00:54:36.110 --> 00:54:39.090
the table as well, because fire does. Fire eats

00:54:39.090 --> 00:54:42.630
everything. Thor is challenged to wrestle an

00:54:42.630 --> 00:54:46.170
old woman. And of course, Thor finds this incredibly

00:54:46.170 --> 00:54:49.050
funny, like, oh, yes, it'll be easy. But no,

00:54:49.110 --> 00:54:51.869
no, no, no, no, no. She, she, she really throws

00:54:51.869 --> 00:54:56.039
him down. And it turns out this old woman is

00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:59.699
old age and near death catching up because that's

00:54:59.699 --> 00:55:03.360
someone we can't ever really defeat. Although

00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:05.639
part of this one, and I guess this may be probably

00:55:05.639 --> 00:55:07.980
one for your next project, is of course Thor

00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:11.119
lifting up the footguard, Loki's cat. I did think

00:55:11.119 --> 00:55:13.260
about the cat moment. There was a few, because

00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:15.840
I had a lot of options for Thor. And again, I

00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:17.400
might take a new one and maybe swap it out of

00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:20.000
the series. I did think about, because isn't

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:22.699
there one of him lifting the cat as well? Yes.

00:55:23.639 --> 00:55:26.239
Like a little paw, just to lift a little bit.

00:55:26.820 --> 00:55:29.679
Yeah, so again, giant animals, not quite in my

00:55:29.679 --> 00:55:33.139
skill set yet. So I did consider like, how can

00:55:33.139 --> 00:55:35.340
I do it where it's like, I don't know, get like

00:55:35.340 --> 00:55:36.880
a fur coat or something and make it look like

00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:39.039
he's I didn't I don't know, I didn't I was never

00:55:39.039 --> 00:55:42.119
able to come up with an a good way of doing that.

00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:44.760
So I thought about that one. I thought about

00:55:44.760 --> 00:55:47.260
him drinking the mead horn that's actually the

00:55:47.260 --> 00:55:50.099
sea, because I thought that could be a raucous

00:55:50.099 --> 00:55:53.400
one of just like having just a giant mead horn

00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:55.199
and just have like water sloshing all down his,

00:55:55.340 --> 00:55:57.300
or mead obviously, sloshing all down his face.

00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:00.780
So yeah, Thor I kind of went back and forth and

00:56:00.780 --> 00:56:04.480
like this series was shot over kind of the course

00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:08.469
of a year. because it was fairly spaced out at

00:56:08.469 --> 00:56:10.010
which events that I could do and when people

00:56:10.010 --> 00:56:14.329
were matched up. So I think by the end of it,

00:56:14.389 --> 00:56:15.909
I might've been running out of steam just a little

00:56:15.909 --> 00:56:17.750
bit of like, I just need a Thor, I need one of

00:56:17.750 --> 00:56:22.369
these to work. So trying to find when people

00:56:22.369 --> 00:56:25.610
could be available or, and again, Thor is such

00:56:25.610 --> 00:56:30.989
like a specific look. So Shane, who is my Thor

00:56:30.989 --> 00:56:34.309
there, just like, he lives like in Wales, so

00:56:34.309 --> 00:56:38.030
I'm like. when are you going to be around? So

00:56:38.030 --> 00:56:40.909
this is actually the one that, the only Wickerst

00:56:40.909 --> 00:56:43.510
one that's photoshopped. So I took the picture

00:56:43.510 --> 00:56:46.510
of him and Carol elsewhere and then photoshopped

00:56:46.510 --> 00:56:48.849
it into Wickerst, which I think I got away with,

00:56:48.849 --> 00:56:52.570
maybe slightly less than the other one. But yeah,

00:56:52.570 --> 00:56:54.969
I think, and I also just wanted to show, again,

00:56:54.989 --> 00:56:57.550
the variation of Reggie. I wanted like a younger

00:56:57.550 --> 00:56:59.449
generation out of the older generation. It's

00:56:59.449 --> 00:57:02.289
not all just warriors. I wanted some variety.

00:57:03.010 --> 00:57:06.210
So when it was... for fighting the old woman.

00:57:06.449 --> 00:57:12.349
I'm just like, let's do that one. Well, those

00:57:12.349 --> 00:57:16.190
six photos are absolutely brilliantly done and

00:57:16.190 --> 00:57:19.429
I am very impressed with your ideas, your concept,

00:57:19.610 --> 00:57:21.489
your staging, your lighting, of course your editing

00:57:21.489 --> 00:57:24.969
of them. And do send my thanks to all of those

00:57:24.969 --> 00:57:27.130
brilliant models, those brilliant members of

00:57:27.130 --> 00:57:31.289
Regae and Gloria because... They're epic in their

00:57:31.289 --> 00:57:33.210
own right, but they're even more epic now that

00:57:33.210 --> 00:57:35.329
you've put them in these particular contexts.

00:57:35.809 --> 00:57:37.630
And of course, I personally would love to see

00:57:37.630 --> 00:57:40.510
you do more. I'd have to have a whole book. There

00:57:40.510 --> 00:57:44.829
will be more added at some point. I know I really,

00:57:44.949 --> 00:57:47.670
I was trying to figure out how to do tear. Tear

00:57:47.670 --> 00:57:50.070
was one I was still trying to do, but I'm like,

00:57:50.170 --> 00:57:52.489
okay, how can I do, because I wanted to do the

00:57:52.489 --> 00:57:57.389
moment where he gets his hand bitten off. Again,

00:57:57.590 --> 00:57:59.710
Fenrir is a little bit of a tricky one to cast.

00:58:01.070 --> 00:58:03.550
So I was trying to figure out if I could do shadows.

00:58:03.869 --> 00:58:06.210
I was trying to figure out, I'm like, okay, who

00:58:06.210 --> 00:58:10.530
has a big dog that could, like, how could I do

00:58:10.530 --> 00:58:15.989
this? And haven't quite, still working on it.

00:58:15.989 --> 00:58:18.849
There might be a tier one eventually, if I ever

00:58:18.849 --> 00:58:21.409
do a round two and try and think of a few other

00:58:21.409 --> 00:58:24.250
ones. I would love to have a tier, because I

00:58:24.250 --> 00:58:28.980
think he was such, a big god to the Vikings themselves.

00:58:29.320 --> 00:58:32.539
He was like just as important as any of the other

00:58:32.539 --> 00:58:35.920
ones and he kind of gets he's not in Marvel so

00:58:35.920 --> 00:58:40.260
no one knows him. So I was trying to figure out

00:58:40.260 --> 00:58:43.300
how to do that but that was that one was going

00:58:43.300 --> 00:58:44.760
to be a little bit more complicated but maybe

00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:51.190
sometime down the road get a tear. Oh yes. I

00:58:51.190 --> 00:58:53.050
was just thinking what are the gods you could

00:58:53.050 --> 00:58:55.550
use besides Tyr, of course, infamous for his

00:58:55.550 --> 00:58:59.289
losing his hand with Fenrir. Himdall immediately,

00:58:59.289 --> 00:59:01.489
I think, of course, blow the Gjallarhorn at the

00:59:01.489 --> 00:59:08.170
end for Ragnarok. Although I do think it's either

00:59:08.170 --> 00:59:11.170
Tyr or Himdall, but I know when Thor goes fishing

00:59:11.170 --> 00:59:14.670
with that giant fellow, ironically enough, the

00:59:14.670 --> 00:59:16.449
one giant who doesn't actually kill outright

00:59:16.449 --> 00:59:19.260
immediately. um he has to go to either Tyr or

00:59:19.260 --> 00:59:22.639
Himdall's parents house to buy borrow a big beer

00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:26.880
cauldron in order to take it and then either

00:59:26.880 --> 00:59:28.460
bring it to Valhalla but then they have to go

00:59:28.460 --> 00:59:30.360
fishing i can't remember which way around it

00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:33.059
was i think they had to go fishing first and

00:59:33.059 --> 00:59:37.179
then they were able to get the cauldron but yes

00:59:37.179 --> 00:59:39.860
there's some very weird weird stuff going on

00:59:39.860 --> 00:59:43.489
with these north doors i can Imagine how hard

00:59:43.489 --> 00:59:46.090
it is actually to try and make them more visual

00:59:46.090 --> 00:59:50.929
with when you haven't got CGI Yeah, I'm just

00:59:50.929 --> 00:59:53.250
like I would love to do like a Thor fighting

00:59:53.250 --> 00:59:57.489
Jörmungandr, but again Just taking a picture

00:59:57.489 --> 00:59:59.530
of like a friend's pet corn snake is not going

00:59:59.530 --> 01:00:04.690
to a giant sea serpent make so trying to that's

01:00:04.690 --> 01:00:09.119
where a illustration kind of is sometimes a medium

01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:11.900
that fits these myths better, but I wanted to

01:00:11.900 --> 01:00:15.360
kind of bring it back into the realm of photography

01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:17.940
to a little bit more kind of realism to these.

01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:24.659
So besides maybe continuing the Norse gods a

01:00:24.659 --> 01:00:27.320
little bit further, are there any other super

01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:31.400
cool photography plans you've got? This year

01:00:31.400 --> 01:00:33.639
is kind of, I'm trying to focus on more battlefield

01:00:33.639 --> 01:00:39.079
photography. Okay, largely because again just

01:00:39.079 --> 01:00:40.780
trying to figure out how to make battlefield

01:00:40.780 --> 01:00:45.739
photos look different It's very if we do it it

01:00:45.739 --> 01:00:47.440
shows it can be tricky because there's either

01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:49.460
audience around there's ropes and there's safety

01:00:49.460 --> 01:00:55.760
stuff so trying to figure out again, just trying

01:00:55.760 --> 01:00:57.860
to figure out photos that haven't been taken

01:00:57.860 --> 01:01:04.659
before of this hobby and Yeah, so there's I haven't

01:01:06.050 --> 01:01:07.570
Oftentimes when I'm trying to like, okay, I want

01:01:07.570 --> 01:01:10.269
to do battlefield photography, but people are

01:01:10.269 --> 01:01:13.949
too busy fighting. So there's a bit of a difference

01:01:13.949 --> 01:01:18.250
between like fighting for staging and the competitive

01:01:18.250 --> 01:01:21.289
fighting that we do. So it's hard to do both

01:01:21.289 --> 01:01:24.889
at the same time. So that will still be, you

01:01:24.889 --> 01:01:28.610
know, it's a constantly evolving project. I think

01:01:28.610 --> 01:01:31.000
people... are getting more involved with the

01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:33.019
photography stuff. They'll be like, oh, I want

01:01:33.019 --> 01:01:36.099
to do this or I'm working on this. Can you take

01:01:36.099 --> 01:01:40.059
some pictures of this? So around Wickers itself,

01:01:40.199 --> 01:01:42.119
we're building new structures. So that changes

01:01:42.119 --> 01:01:46.300
the setting of now we have these other buildings

01:01:46.300 --> 01:01:48.400
and these other setups that we can take pictures

01:01:48.400 --> 01:01:53.559
in. Wickers is a photographer's playground because

01:01:53.559 --> 01:01:56.639
you don't have to hide any of the background.

01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:01.000
if we're at events normally there's something

01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:02.920
that's a little bit anachronistic in the background

01:02:02.920 --> 01:02:05.860
and so you take pictures as these are show pictures

01:02:05.860 --> 01:02:08.900
but you know you're slightly just ignoring you

01:02:08.900 --> 01:02:10.940
know the family of five who are having a picnic

01:02:10.940 --> 01:02:13.079
while watching the show that they're there to

01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:15.340
see which fair enough but doesn't work for my

01:02:15.340 --> 01:02:18.900
photos so i'm always as much as i can um the

01:02:18.900 --> 01:02:21.079
photos that i post on my website i'm trying to

01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:25.519
make it that there's no modern in them um but

01:02:25.519 --> 01:02:27.880
photos are different purposes i always just like

01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:30.320
a big part of it because I love photos of me

01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:33.880
doing the hobby and I know when I joined that

01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:36.179
was a big thing like I'm loving this hobby I

01:02:36.179 --> 01:02:40.599
want pictures of me doing this so I like being

01:02:40.599 --> 01:02:43.559
the person to supply that for a lot of the group

01:02:43.559 --> 01:02:45.519
where I'm just like everyone's worked so hard

01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:47.920
on their kit everyone's working so hard on their

01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:51.679
crafts everyone wants a cool photo or video or

01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:54.889
something of them just looking like a God of

01:02:54.889 --> 01:02:59.449
War in the line. So being able to kind of, at

01:02:59.449 --> 01:03:02.110
the end of a show, be like, all right, and here's

01:03:02.110 --> 01:03:07.190
all the pictures, guys, is a kind of very special

01:03:07.190 --> 01:03:09.829
role for me that I've kind of carved out in this

01:03:09.829 --> 01:03:14.579
hobby. It's my hobby within a hobby. I think

01:03:14.579 --> 01:03:16.780
that's truly wonderful that you've managed to

01:03:16.780 --> 01:03:20.360
find the perfect theatre almost for both those

01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:23.099
passions to come together and support the other

01:03:23.099 --> 01:03:28.579
really really well. Yeah I mean I could quite

01:03:28.579 --> 01:03:31.800
happily talk about my theories for ages about

01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:33.679
my many theories and ideas especially about them

01:03:33.679 --> 01:03:36.280
in fantasy fiction but that's a whole other episode

01:03:36.280 --> 01:03:40.260
with a whole other lot of content and thoughts

01:03:40.260 --> 01:03:43.690
to go into it. So for those who are listening,

01:03:43.750 --> 01:03:45.869
and of course those on YouTube, you can of course

01:03:45.869 --> 01:03:47.849
see these beautiful photos and all the other

01:03:47.849 --> 01:03:49.710
ones, including the ones of the Anglo -Saxon

01:03:49.710 --> 01:03:54.309
sites that Jen has taken on her website jenniferpetersphoto

01:03:54.309 --> 01:04:00.130
.com. That is jenniferpetersphoto .com. And click

01:04:00.130 --> 01:04:04.369
on the, where is it? The reenactment section,

01:04:04.409 --> 01:04:05.750
and that is where you'll find them, but there

01:04:05.750 --> 01:04:07.949
are other aspects to her many creative talents

01:04:07.949 --> 01:04:12.940
also visible on that website. So yes, I guess

01:04:12.940 --> 01:04:16.340
the final question is, kind of like besides obviously

01:04:16.340 --> 01:04:18.940
Hastings is some time away, well I say some time

01:04:18.940 --> 01:04:20.219
away, it's only September, it's only a couple

01:04:20.219 --> 01:04:23.679
of months at least away, are there really the

01:04:23.679 --> 01:04:25.920
big events that you're getting looking forward

01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:28.480
to over the summer with Regae and Glorum? Yes,

01:04:28.639 --> 01:04:31.400
so anyone who's interested, anything to come

01:04:31.400 --> 01:04:36.199
to, if you just go to regia .org, we have our

01:04:36.199 --> 01:04:39.920
entire summer diary on there. The shows that

01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:44.380
are coming up for us, we have a show in Whirl

01:04:44.380 --> 01:04:51.019
in June. We have every local group will have

01:04:51.019 --> 01:04:54.400
their local shows. We're doing Detling Military

01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:59.420
Odyssey. And then as well as that we all There'll

01:04:59.420 --> 01:05:01.219
be another one at Wickers, but that's just members

01:05:01.219 --> 01:05:04.179
only, so that's just for us, where we turn that

01:05:04.179 --> 01:05:07.019
into basically just an immersive weekend where

01:05:07.019 --> 01:05:10.940
we just live at our angle, Sax and Burr, and

01:05:10.940 --> 01:05:13.219
then various groups will have their own local

01:05:13.219 --> 01:05:17.300
shows or local trainings. Yeah, we normally have

01:05:17.300 --> 01:05:19.659
one or two shows a month that people kind of

01:05:19.659 --> 01:05:21.860
get to, and then beyond that, lots of people

01:05:21.860 --> 01:05:26.239
will meet up. through the week or trainings or

01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:29.019
whatever else. So it is a very close -knit society

01:05:29.019 --> 01:05:34.559
so we see as much of each other as we can. Cool,

01:05:34.599 --> 01:05:37.420
so if anyone's interested in wanting maybe even

01:05:37.420 --> 01:05:40.099
following Jen's footsteps and join Regaea or

01:05:40.099 --> 01:05:43.380
see them in their action, do go to regaea .org.

01:05:44.570 --> 01:05:46.750
I know the details and I guess we're going to

01:05:46.750 --> 01:05:48.670
have to pick. I know I've taken them a lot of

01:05:48.670 --> 01:05:51.070
your evening already, but it has been a truly

01:05:51.070 --> 01:05:54.190
wonderful and enthusiastic and passionate discussion.

01:05:54.789 --> 01:05:57.789
And I'm so glad I tracked you down on Facebook.

01:06:03.639 --> 01:06:06.000
Can I run this little podcast? Can I please talk

01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:08.980
to them about these photos? Because they were

01:06:08.980 --> 01:06:11.199
just awesome. And I'm really happy that you've

01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:14.639
joined me on the podcast as a special bonus episode.

01:06:14.820 --> 01:06:16.579
And of course, I wish you luck with whatever

01:06:16.579 --> 01:06:18.539
you do next, whether it's with reenactment, your

01:06:18.539 --> 01:06:22.019
photography. Of course, any of the research,

01:06:22.139 --> 01:06:23.920
academic reading, et cetera, you might be doing,

01:06:24.019 --> 01:06:28.019
for example. I mean, your thesis sounds amazing.

01:06:29.670 --> 01:06:33.269
It's so fascinating when people dive into the

01:06:33.269 --> 01:06:36.329
historical aspects of fantasy because that is

01:06:36.329 --> 01:06:39.349
a whole episode and debate in itself how much

01:06:39.349 --> 01:06:41.369
medieval influenced fantasy, now how fantasy

01:06:41.369 --> 01:06:44.630
influenced medieval and vice versa. But yes,

01:06:44.630 --> 01:06:47.010
I really appreciate your time. So thank you so

01:06:47.010 --> 01:06:51.429
much for coming on today. And yes, we will look

01:06:51.429 --> 01:06:53.550
forward to seeing what you get up to next with

01:06:53.550 --> 01:06:55.909
your many skills. Wonderful. Thank you.