WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:34.560 you Hello everyone and welcome to another bonus 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:37.759 episode of Legends of Jorvik where I, a humble 00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:40.840 Jorvik pilgrim who goes to the Jorvik biking 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:43.659 festival that they hold every February, although 00:00:43.659 --> 00:00:48.240 once in May, goes to and witnesses many creative 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:51.539 events, meets fabulous people, experts, historians, 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:54.359 theatre production companies, reenactors, you 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:57.560 name it, they've got it, and I'm lucky to have 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.219 faxed down. and gently requested a few of the 00:01:00.219 --> 00:01:03.380 guests from this year's festival 2025 to join 00:01:03.380 --> 00:01:06.180 me on my podcast and tonight we have a very special 00:01:06.180 --> 00:01:09.840 guest called Katie Smith who works at York Archaeology 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:12.120 and her connection ladies and gentlemen is that 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:15.180 she designed the official top trumps for the 00:01:15.180 --> 00:01:18.140 Yorvik Viking Centre. Look at all those cards! 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:21.439 and their pretty pictures. And I will have ones 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:23.379 popping up and around the screen as we go through 00:01:23.379 --> 00:01:25.120 the talk, so don't you worry everyone, you will 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:27.060 see them. But I do encourage everyone to go buy 00:01:27.060 --> 00:01:28.819 them. They should still be on sale on the Orvic 00:01:28.819 --> 00:01:32.140 website. But let me welcome our guest, Katie. 00:01:32.260 --> 00:01:36.159 Welcome to the podcast. Hi, I'm so happy to be 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:40.480 here. Glad that you wanted to speak to me. Well, 00:01:40.780 --> 00:01:43.659 this came about simply because I learnt that 00:01:43.659 --> 00:01:46.459 you are an alumni like me of the University of 00:01:46.459 --> 00:01:50.769 Huddersfield. incredibly enough yeah yeah no 00:01:50.769 --> 00:01:53.170 i remember the email you sent Lisa and i was 00:01:53.170 --> 00:01:56.209 like oh it's such a i love like connecting with 00:01:56.209 --> 00:01:59.349 people but like it just feels like such a lovely 00:01:59.349 --> 00:02:03.510 thing to be like we've been in the same place 00:02:03.510 --> 00:02:06.849 and stuff Well, your wonderful work with the 00:02:06.849 --> 00:02:09.370 top trumps made it on the staff news on the headline 00:02:09.370 --> 00:02:11.729 on the university pages for staff. And of course, 00:02:11.770 --> 00:02:13.590 I think it was even on the main website as well. 00:02:13.849 --> 00:02:15.889 Huddersfield alumni Katie Smith designed the 00:02:15.889 --> 00:02:18.569 top trumps for your work. I thought, oh, I need 00:02:18.569 --> 00:02:20.250 to get her on the podcast. And then, of course, 00:02:20.270 --> 00:02:22.210 I got the top trumps and I guess I definitely 00:02:22.210 --> 00:02:24.150 need to get her on the podcast because they're 00:02:24.150 --> 00:02:26.729 amazing. And I guess we should start from the 00:02:26.729 --> 00:02:29.129 beginning with after the kind of like I believe 00:02:29.129 --> 00:02:31.530 you did illustration at the university, is that 00:02:31.530 --> 00:02:35.699 right? Okay, so how did you then get your current 00:02:35.699 --> 00:02:37.919 post at your carchaeology, if you don't mind 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:45.120 me asking? So really, so I graduated in 2020, 00:02:45.219 --> 00:02:48.280 which was obviously a really bad time. We were 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:51.740 in like luck and stuff like that. And it was 00:02:51.740 --> 00:02:55.800 sort of the case of like sending my dissertation, 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:58.659 right, you finished. And I was like, oh, that's 00:02:58.659 --> 00:03:04.240 it. Okay. And then I was It took the year really 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:06.460 to think about what I wanted to do and I really 00:03:06.460 --> 00:03:08.280 wanted to get into the children's book illustration 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:13.360 and like more storytelling illustration and then 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:18.500 getting into the, it turned out that like I was 00:03:18.500 --> 00:03:20.659 told my whole life that the art industry is really 00:03:20.659 --> 00:03:22.520 hard to get into and I took that as a chin and 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:24.439 was like I know it's hard to get into but I'm 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:26.280 gonna get into it and then I spent three years 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:33.289 realising how hard it is to get into it. It really 00:03:33.289 --> 00:03:38.129 was a lot of, unfortunately, doing a lot of volunteer 00:03:38.129 --> 00:03:41.050 work. I did a lot around Huddersfield. I don't 00:03:41.050 --> 00:03:44.949 know if you know of the Hive Cafe? Yes. I did 00:03:44.949 --> 00:03:46.810 some of their window displays and ran a workshop 00:03:46.810 --> 00:03:50.710 for them. Anything that could go to my portfolio, 00:03:52.229 --> 00:03:54.150 I was like, please let me do. And I was working 00:03:54.150 --> 00:03:56.009 in a full -time job at the time. So it was just 00:03:56.009 --> 00:03:58.530 like, this is what I wanted to do. I'm going 00:03:58.530 --> 00:04:02.460 to try and do it. of which like me to kind of 00:04:02.460 --> 00:04:05.080 sort of apply for anything and everything i was 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:08.479 like please just somebody give me a chance so 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:11.719 i applied for the um so i tried like graphic 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:14.139 design roles i tried artwork roles anything that 00:04:14.139 --> 00:04:16.939 said creative graphic design i wasn't getting 00:04:16.939 --> 00:04:20.420 anywhere with graphic design when i have friends 00:04:20.420 --> 00:04:22.199 that are graphic design and i'm going to look 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:24.600 for their work i was like oh i see this is why 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:26.360 i'm not getting work because it's completely 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:31.360 different and i respect that So I decided I'd 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:33.100 be really good, I think I'd be a really good 00:04:33.100 --> 00:04:36.639 assistant or like do like intern, so I just looked 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:39.379 at graphic design assistant because I was like 00:04:39.379 --> 00:04:41.639 anything I could do I could learn. I'm very much 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:45.300 like you show me I will learn it, I will watch 00:04:45.300 --> 00:04:49.339 any video I can and York Archaeology came up 00:04:49.339 --> 00:04:51.540 needing a graphic design assistant and I applied 00:04:51.540 --> 00:04:58.569 for it and I did the interview it was my illustration 00:04:58.569 --> 00:05:01.250 skills that got me the role because um George 00:05:01.250 --> 00:05:04.910 my um team and the graphic designer was like 00:05:04.910 --> 00:05:07.069 I haven't got that skill you've got that skill 00:05:07.069 --> 00:05:11.209 let's yeah I was like oh that is like the best 00:05:11.209 --> 00:05:12.970 thing I've ever heard that's all I've wanted 00:05:12.970 --> 00:05:17.310 to hear and then getting I had the interview 00:05:17.310 --> 00:05:21.569 got the job the day after had oh yeah it was 00:05:21.569 --> 00:05:26.610 like oh my god this is amazing had to help my 00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:29.250 boss like then I went in to my boss the Sunday 00:05:29.250 --> 00:05:31.589 because I worked in like a chef I was a chef 00:05:31.589 --> 00:05:35.949 for a bit um and but I didn't want to hand in 00:05:35.949 --> 00:05:38.610 my notes till I had like the written confirmation 00:05:38.610 --> 00:05:43.310 yes yeah I was like it felt too much like a dream 00:05:43.310 --> 00:05:45.589 what do you mean I'm just gonna become a graphic 00:05:45.589 --> 00:05:49.529 designer and the thing about it was I was really 00:05:49.529 --> 00:05:51.850 expecting I didn't know they'd chosen me for 00:05:51.850 --> 00:05:53.149 the illustration at the time and I wasn't really 00:05:53.149 --> 00:05:57.110 expecting to do much big creative work like top 00:05:57.110 --> 00:05:59.610 trumps and like other projects I've worked on 00:05:59.610 --> 00:06:01.709 because I was the assistant I was like I'll do 00:06:01.709 --> 00:06:05.649 a few posters I'll do some ads like my job was 00:06:05.649 --> 00:06:07.189 like well do you even know how much they're gonna 00:06:07.189 --> 00:06:09.029 pay you like you're leaving this job and I was 00:06:09.029 --> 00:06:11.189 like you don't care like they could pay me in 00:06:11.189 --> 00:06:13.790 buttons and I'd just be like please thank you 00:06:13.790 --> 00:06:19.029 oh um and then yeah so I would just I would just 00:06:19.029 --> 00:06:22.550 have it was this has been my break into the industry 00:06:22.550 --> 00:06:26.730 I was so I've been so grateful I've enjoyed every 00:06:26.730 --> 00:06:30.949 moment of it and um I didn't realize York Archaeology 00:06:30.949 --> 00:06:35.550 ran Yorvik or dig or when I joined they were 00:06:35.550 --> 00:06:37.470 like have you heard of Yorvik and I was like 00:06:37.470 --> 00:06:41.490 sort of and so I didn't even realize like what 00:06:41.490 --> 00:06:44.310 I was actually getting into and yeah if you'd 00:06:44.310 --> 00:06:46.839 asked told me three years ago that I was going 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:48.959 to be drawing Vikings for the Viking Centre in 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:50.920 York or like doing the top trumps and stuff like 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:52.519 that. I wouldn't believe you. I was like, you're 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:55.660 tall. What is that even a job? Like, are they 00:06:55.660 --> 00:06:58.199 even looking for people like me? And then, yeah, 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:02.000 so it's just the weird way life takes you. And 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:04.720 I'm so glad that I was able to, they've accepted 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:07.600 me and I've been able to do their work for them. 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:11.459 That is a wonderful story and I'm so glad it 00:07:11.459 --> 00:07:13.819 paid off for you because so many people do try 00:07:13.819 --> 00:07:16.319 to get their dream job with whatever skill or 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.939 talent they have. I know I personally I went 00:07:18.939 --> 00:07:21.279 to the University of Hudsfield to do English 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:23.459 studies with creative writing with a humble dream 00:07:23.459 --> 00:07:27.500 of being the next JK Rowling. That kind of kept 00:07:27.500 --> 00:07:29.319 me going through the three years and after the 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:31.399 three years stopped I had no more deadlines so 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:35.600 I had no great mindset of fighting so eventually 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:37.980 I windled off writing and became more of a reader. 00:07:38.100 --> 00:07:40.220 I mean I've been a reader from the word dot anyway. 00:07:40.500 --> 00:07:43.199 Soon as I could read I was a bookworm. And then 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:45.980 somehow my creative talents shifted into cosplay 00:07:45.980 --> 00:07:48.300 for a couple of years and then the pandemic and 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:51.399 pregnancy happened. And now here I am podcasting. 00:07:51.459 --> 00:07:53.879 So my creative talents just follow my passion 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:55.939 wherever it seems to go. It hasn't quite yet 00:07:55.939 --> 00:07:58.180 paid off in a paid job yet. I am available if 00:07:58.180 --> 00:08:01.279 anyone wants me to do a paid podcast. particularly 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:04.459 on Vikings I can cover that one. But yes, on 00:08:04.459 --> 00:08:08.779 the whole I have been happily working most of 00:08:08.779 --> 00:08:11.160 my job life has been because when I graduated 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:14.699 university in 2009, so it's a good world for 00:08:14.699 --> 00:08:18.500 you, I managed to get a job at Huddersfield New 00:08:18.500 --> 00:08:21.579 College where I was the assistant librarian and 00:08:21.579 --> 00:08:23.779 then I became the library officer when the rest 00:08:23.779 --> 00:08:26.800 of the team retired and then eventually I became 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:29.259 the college librarian. And then after nine years 00:08:29.259 --> 00:08:32.789 there, six of them solo which was a transformation 00:08:32.789 --> 00:08:36.549 but I enjoyed it immensely. I managed to then 00:08:36.549 --> 00:08:38.669 get a post as a senior library assistant back 00:08:38.669 --> 00:08:40.509 at my old university so I kind of like left for 00:08:40.509 --> 00:08:44.669 nine years and then came back. So yes I'm back 00:08:44.669 --> 00:08:47.029 a part of a team, it's a smaller job less responsibility 00:08:47.029 --> 00:08:50.529 but it's given me the foundation that I needed 00:08:50.529 --> 00:08:54.250 to have my family which I now have. So both of 00:08:54.250 --> 00:08:56.879 our lives eventually worked out after. various 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:00.940 circles and trials nothing good comes easy as 00:09:00.940 --> 00:09:06.399 they often say so to get back to the top trump 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:09.139 set which they have there are many can you remember 00:09:09.139 --> 00:09:12.159 how many cards you've done casey as a quick pop 00:09:12.159 --> 00:09:16.320 question and then an extra special one for the 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:19.440 festival There was, I wasn't able to get that 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:21.539 one because I sadly didn't have time or chance 00:09:21.539 --> 00:09:24.200 to complete the trail to get it but I believe 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:27.379 it was a special one so yes. So how did this 00:09:27.379 --> 00:09:30.220 idea come up then? Did Top Trumps approach Yorvik? 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:32.419 Did Yorvik approach Top Trumps? Did someone say 00:09:32.419 --> 00:09:34.460 why don't we do a Top Trumps and then run it 00:09:34.460 --> 00:09:39.240 forward or? As far as I'm aware we've had Top 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:41.639 Trumps kind of in the sphere for a while like 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:46.600 in the space for a while. It's been sort of like 00:09:46.539 --> 00:09:51.360 trying to justify if it was worth the company 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:55.080 investing in. And then Lisa worked at Magic. 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.440 And then, yeah, one day in August, she was like, 00:10:01.460 --> 00:10:05.779 I have an exciting proposal for you. And I was 00:10:05.779 --> 00:10:08.460 like, ooh, what is it? And then she was like, 00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:10.779 would you like to illustrate our top jumps? And 00:10:10.779 --> 00:10:15.309 I was like, yes, thank you. So I... That is all 00:10:15.309 --> 00:10:19.970 Lisa magic. I, my manager, I don't know, she 00:10:19.970 --> 00:10:24.789 proved that it's worth it. She got involved with 00:10:24.789 --> 00:10:28.370 Top Trumps. I was like, yeah, I was just on the 00:10:28.370 --> 00:10:33.110 off end and I was like, yeah. So I guess, did 00:10:33.110 --> 00:10:35.830 you know much about Top Trumps as a card game 00:10:35.830 --> 00:10:39.690 before that point? Yeah, well, it's always, I 00:10:39.690 --> 00:10:43.539 feel like it's a staple. kids game, innit? Like, 00:10:43.580 --> 00:10:47.899 I've never fully played a game and I don't think, 00:10:48.340 --> 00:10:51.200 I didn't know how to play the game when we got 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:54.299 approached without drums. When they explained 00:10:54.299 --> 00:10:56.379 the game to me, I was like, ah, how did I not 00:10:56.379 --> 00:11:01.279 know? But I think I just didn't, I don't, I didn't 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:03.659 read instructions as a kid and it was always 00:11:03.659 --> 00:11:06.240 something we, yeah, it's always something we 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:10.909 got as like, for Christmas and stuff. I feel 00:11:10.909 --> 00:11:12.909 like I always had a Top Trumps pack in the house. 00:11:13.269 --> 00:11:15.370 And I think it was just a case of like, I think 00:11:15.370 --> 00:11:18.129 we got a basic concept, but I don't have like 00:11:18.129 --> 00:11:20.929 a full memory of like, this is how you play the 00:11:20.929 --> 00:11:23.110 game and this is what you do to play the game. 00:11:23.789 --> 00:11:29.909 So I knew of the brand. And then I was quite... 00:11:29.909 --> 00:11:33.129 I can't think of the word. We related because 00:11:33.129 --> 00:11:35.590 Lisa had never played the game and we'd like... 00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:39.769 So we got to... We were, it was exciting that 00:11:39.769 --> 00:11:42.250 when we got to like do test runs of our pack 00:11:42.250 --> 00:11:44.049 and stuff like that when they were coming. Oh 00:11:44.049 --> 00:11:49.629 fab! So yeah, I knew of them and I've never, 00:11:49.909 --> 00:11:52.950 I have now played that game but growing up I 00:11:52.950 --> 00:11:56.529 had them and never played. So for viewers and 00:11:56.529 --> 00:11:59.549 listeners who may not be in either familiar or 00:11:59.549 --> 00:12:01.330 in the same boat that I've remembered top trumps 00:12:01.330 --> 00:12:03.110 from their own childhood but couldn't for the 00:12:03.110 --> 00:12:05.639 life of them. or am I not just be able to record 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:07.539 these rules? Would you like to give us a brief 00:12:07.539 --> 00:12:11.179 summary of how you play top drums? So you all 00:12:11.179 --> 00:12:15.559 divide the cards and it's sort of a versus game. 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:21.559 So you will, you hide your, you hide your hand 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:26.299 cards. And you say you have five categories. 00:12:26.419 --> 00:12:29.440 These categories could range from wisdom to like 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:31.620 magic, which are on the top trump cards like 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:37.240 battle Paris and they all have a rating you will 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:42.600 say I I think you say the character for battle 00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:48.220 Paris 64 and then the other person will either 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:50.120 give you their card because their battle Paris 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:53.080 is lower or you have to give them their card 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:55.779 your cards them because their battle Paris is 00:12:55.779 --> 00:12:59.450 higher and it's all a game of like it's not always 00:12:59.450 --> 00:13:02.269 about a game going for the obvious score like 00:13:02.269 --> 00:13:05.090 don't always go for the obvious high number because 00:13:05.090 --> 00:13:08.029 they might have like where you might have a real 00:13:08.029 --> 00:13:09.889 low number they might even have a lower number 00:13:09.889 --> 00:13:11.750 or like you never know which one's going to come 00:13:11.750 --> 00:13:16.210 out on top brilliant thank you very much that's 00:13:16.210 --> 00:13:20.250 really succinctly put that's certainly the way 00:13:20.250 --> 00:13:22.950 i remember very vaguely playing pokemon cards 00:13:22.950 --> 00:13:25.409 once upon a time back in the 1990s and even then 00:13:25.409 --> 00:13:29.039 i don't think i played it right Yeah again a 00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:31.360 game I had loads of cards for because I loved 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:33.799 the characters and like I watched the anime but 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:37.580 never until I was like 19 I'd never played a 00:13:37.580 --> 00:13:39.379 full game through and I think I just remember 00:13:39.379 --> 00:13:42.759 like just showing them off and be like yeah my 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:47.879 pretty card. So okay so Lisa told you that the 00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:51.000 deal is on can you design the pictures how did 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:54.519 it all begin? Did you talk to a particular person 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:56.460 to find out much lore about the characters? Did 00:13:56.460 --> 00:13:58.600 you have to draft a list of names first to know 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:01.700 who you're designing? So, yeah, this is really 00:14:01.700 --> 00:14:04.179 interesting because we had, we have a big team 00:14:04.179 --> 00:14:06.259 at York Archaeology. We have a lot of, we have 00:14:06.259 --> 00:14:09.100 like the education section, we have like the 00:14:09.100 --> 00:14:13.120 finds, artefact sections, and we have like mythological 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:16.899 experts on like hand of all. different areas 00:14:16.899 --> 00:14:19.059 of your archaeology and this being a really exciting 00:14:19.059 --> 00:14:21.600 project they all wanted to be a part of it which 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:24.700 is brilliant and that was like the first hurdle 00:14:24.700 --> 00:14:27.519 was who are we going to have as our cards because 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:30.679 it wasn't particularly obvious at first to do 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:35.019 Norse mythology we were playing around with the 00:14:35.019 --> 00:14:37.879 characters at the Jorvik in the Jorvik ride so 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:40.629 like we were going to play around with like Boga 00:14:40.629 --> 00:14:46.210 and like Laboba but again pronunciation because 00:14:46.210 --> 00:14:49.830 um yeah because on the ride we have characters 00:14:49.830 --> 00:14:53.129 that um were found at the archaeologist site 00:14:53.129 --> 00:14:56.090 and we can say yeah these people were like here 00:14:56.090 --> 00:15:00.789 um and then I threw out the idea because we have 00:15:00.789 --> 00:15:03.470 a another exhibition that tours around the countries 00:15:03.470 --> 00:15:07.070 or tours around like the world called um heroes 00:15:07.070 --> 00:15:12.309 which is real viking people that were like heroes 00:15:12.309 --> 00:15:19.590 and I remember the names there's like I wouldn't 00:15:19.590 --> 00:15:22.070 be surprised if there was Freydis from Greenland 00:15:22.070 --> 00:15:24.090 because she was the one that snapped her breasts 00:15:24.090 --> 00:15:26.590 with the sword she's always on the top there 00:15:26.590 --> 00:15:28.509 when you think you have to female psychos because 00:15:28.509 --> 00:15:31.850 I think I did see that when it toured I might 00:15:31.850 --> 00:15:33.370 have seen it in New York because I remember seeing 00:15:33.370 --> 00:15:35.429 it in the Barnsley town hall because of course 00:15:35.429 --> 00:15:37.840 I'm live in West York now and that's the nearest 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:40.320 townhouse anywhere my husband's from anyway so 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:42.139 I remember seeing it there probably got photos 00:15:42.139 --> 00:15:45.279 of my Facebook page of it many many years ago 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:49.100 but yes I remember seeing that exhibition. Well 00:15:49.100 --> 00:15:51.980 and I think what helped me is I'd drawn them 00:15:51.980 --> 00:15:54.299 prior because it had recently gone to France 00:15:54.299 --> 00:15:56.399 and they wanted an illustration element so I'd 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:00.600 recently drawn them. So I was like those and 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:01.940 because we were still thinking of the Jorvik 00:16:01.940 --> 00:16:05.240 characters I was like well they seem not so overpowered. 00:16:05.629 --> 00:16:07.690 to like the orbit characters i feel like because 00:16:07.690 --> 00:16:10.230 they're on the same level just a bit more like 00:16:10.230 --> 00:16:12.970 had a bit more wit or a bit more like leadership 00:16:12.970 --> 00:16:16.789 you can kind of go with that because then norse 00:16:16.789 --> 00:16:19.009 mythology got thrown in we were like shall we 00:16:19.009 --> 00:16:21.789 have the gods too and then it was like well we 00:16:21.789 --> 00:16:23.710 kept the gods versus the heroes because now i 00:16:23.710 --> 00:16:25.529 think you rank out the orbit characters because 00:16:25.529 --> 00:16:30.330 they're just civilians and then i think it was 00:16:30.330 --> 00:16:33.580 just less there's so much to dive in with Norse 00:16:33.580 --> 00:16:36.120 mythology let's just do Norse mythology and also 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:38.799 because they're all sort of on the same battlefield 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:46.799 like you can have a category that is magic because 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:49.120 they do have magic whereas like the hero characters 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:51.379 might have not ranked high in magic because they're 00:16:51.379 --> 00:16:53.919 real people and may have had legends where they 00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:56.259 could have been seen to be using magic but I 00:16:56.259 --> 00:17:01.870 don't think yeah so it was Norse mythology, and 00:17:01.870 --> 00:17:06.609 then it was the exciting thing of, I think the 00:17:06.609 --> 00:17:09.130 first point was I was going to draw, I drew the 00:17:09.130 --> 00:17:12.089 characters. I drew two, I drew a Valkyrie and 00:17:12.089 --> 00:17:19.109 I drew Mimir. Ah, interesting choice. Well, so 00:17:19.109 --> 00:17:20.930 I was going off Google searches, which is why 00:17:20.930 --> 00:17:23.490 this is quite a funny story. So we were working 00:17:23.490 --> 00:17:25.940 out So we had Lucas the methodological expert 00:17:25.940 --> 00:17:28.140 and we had education working out all the logistics 00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:32.099 and details and I wanted to secure the style 00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:34.700 of the characters before because it was quite 00:17:34.700 --> 00:17:37.880 um I had like a month to do this so I wanted 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:42.900 to secure the style so that There could be little 00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:45.380 changes, but no one would be shocked what they 00:17:45.380 --> 00:17:47.259 look like. Everyone can agree that this is what 00:17:47.259 --> 00:17:49.599 they're going to look like. So it was a Google 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.240 searching for me first because I know a little 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:56.339 bit, but mine is very much like, um, very much 00:17:56.339 --> 00:17:59.819 Marvel and what I could find in it. Like I found 00:17:59.819 --> 00:18:02.200 out that Vikings don't wear horns on their helmets 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.400 when I started working at Yorvik. And I had a 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:07.680 lot of like, I was like, that's a Victorian invention. 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:15.880 So the Valkyrie came out with a winged helmet, 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:20.200 because I was doing Google searches. Also because 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:22.519 I was like, they're gods. Surely they can have, 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:24.420 I get the cat of horns, but surely they have 00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:27.680 decorative helmets. And then Meimei was funny 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:30.920 because I was searching up Meimei and the Assassin 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:36.079 Creed did a character for their game. And he 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:40.720 looked like a man -face in a tree. like a man 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:43.700 head in a tree and I thought Mimei was a tree 00:18:43.700 --> 00:18:50.099 man so I drew this great oak with the details 00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:52.259 of the wood would be like the Viking helmet and 00:18:52.259 --> 00:18:55.839 his face and his beard would be like moss and 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:58.119 it was honestly one of my favourite drawings 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:03.920 and I'm like we need to use it somewhere it's 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.690 just very typical And so I sent it off to them. 00:19:07.910 --> 00:19:09.890 They loved the style. But yeah, Lucas came to 00:19:09.890 --> 00:19:12.170 me and was like, maybe he's not actually a tree 00:19:12.170 --> 00:19:16.089 man. I was like, what? He's a talking head. So 00:19:16.089 --> 00:19:18.769 I thought that was really clever. And then so 00:19:18.769 --> 00:19:22.029 from there, me and Lucas had a lot of meetings 00:19:22.029 --> 00:19:25.730 where he, he being the mythological expert and 00:19:25.730 --> 00:19:27.930 talks a lot about sagas, he gave me the rundown 00:19:27.930 --> 00:19:31.190 of the saga from what the thing was and then 00:19:31.190 --> 00:19:34.490 from what the character was. And I would And 00:19:34.490 --> 00:19:36.670 then we had a meeting where I would like discuss 00:19:36.670 --> 00:19:39.670 what is like kind of yes and no for Vikings. 00:19:40.069 --> 00:19:44.069 So like, because in Tigers, they call themselves 00:19:44.069 --> 00:19:46.809 giants a lot. So I was like, these are the giants. 00:19:47.349 --> 00:19:49.190 Like when I think of giants, is that what I'm 00:19:49.190 --> 00:19:51.809 thinking about? Yes, that's a good point. Yeah. 00:19:51.809 --> 00:19:55.630 And he's like, no, no, the giants are just, I 00:19:55.630 --> 00:19:57.630 think they're like closest to gods they can get 00:19:57.630 --> 00:20:00.289 without, they're not physically giant people. 00:20:00.289 --> 00:20:02.430 And I think it was the same with dwarves. It's 00:20:02.430 --> 00:20:05.349 the same with elves. I was like, What are the 00:20:05.349 --> 00:20:07.329 rings? Can I draw a guy with pointy ears? And 00:20:07.329 --> 00:20:09.470 he's like, no, no, they're just like certain 00:20:09.470 --> 00:20:12.089 types of Vikings. And I was like, okay. But yeah, 00:20:12.089 --> 00:20:14.450 it was very good to like, well, that's where 00:20:14.450 --> 00:20:19.029 I found out that sagas aren't, aren't like what 00:20:19.029 --> 00:20:20.670 I assume the Greek myths are, which are like 00:20:20.670 --> 00:20:24.049 full stories or like they're kind of like bits 00:20:24.049 --> 00:20:29.329 and pieces of poems. And that's why like Nidhogg. 00:20:29.730 --> 00:20:36.599 Yes, Nidhogg. Nidhogg. a snake that was like 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:40.240 eating the roots of the tree but then in Ragnarok 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:42.740 grew wings but it wasn't discussed that he had 00:20:42.740 --> 00:20:45.960 wings before and dropped dead bodies I was like 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:51.019 oh so he gained abilities I like that that was 00:20:51.019 --> 00:20:53.940 like the most interesting part and then the way 00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:55.680 that education came in because top trumps can 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:58.799 be used in top trumps is certified to be used 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.599 in educational aspects during schools and stuff 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:07.180 like that They wanted to put in like their bits 00:21:07.180 --> 00:21:09.400 and stuff like that and we really wanted to have 00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:12.900 artifacts from what we found at York Archaeology. 00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:17.559 So the Valkyrie has the, I forgot the name of 00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:19.880 the helmet, but it's the helmet they found. The 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:24.220 Coppergate helmet. Really? I'm looking her up 00:21:24.220 --> 00:21:26.299 now. Where is she? I know she's in here somewhere. 00:21:26.660 --> 00:21:29.579 There she is. Oh, she does. How have I not noticed 00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:33.849 that? There she is, the Valkyrie. I'll have a 00:21:33.849 --> 00:21:36.329 bigger version on the screen around here somewhere, 00:21:36.470 --> 00:21:38.849 but she'll pop up in all her glorious colour. 00:21:38.990 --> 00:21:42.269 Yes, that's a beautiful thing to do. How clever. 00:21:42.970 --> 00:21:47.069 Yeah, so like I found out that Vikings had ice 00:21:47.069 --> 00:21:49.150 skates and skis. I didn't know they had that. 00:21:49.609 --> 00:21:51.210 It's just stuff you don't think about and then 00:21:51.210 --> 00:21:55.410 they do and you're like, oh my god. But yeah, 00:21:55.529 --> 00:21:58.779 I think a lot of the runes, like I want it. um 00:21:58.779 --> 00:22:00.640 Lucas directed me on the little runes because 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:02.700 I wanted to be cheeky and spell stuff out in 00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:05.119 runes not anything bad but just like Valkyrie 00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:09.619 was here and he's like because of how runes are 00:22:09.619 --> 00:22:12.720 not they're not direct to our language our alphabet 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:15.240 yeah like here are some runes you can use so 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.380 that idea kind of got lost but I was like I wanted 00:22:18.380 --> 00:22:22.940 like Valkyrie's here or look he was here I noticed 00:22:22.940 --> 00:22:25.640 that, oh, let me find Loki now because he is, 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:27.599 I really like him, if only because for the first 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:29.859 time I've ever seen him in many depictions, he's 00:22:29.859 --> 00:22:32.339 blonde, which I don't often come across. He's 00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:34.480 so often the redhead. And yet it's also Thor 00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:36.900 that's the redhead. Where are you? Where are 00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:41.259 you Thor? Where are you? That's Tyr. That's Linnir. 00:22:41.420 --> 00:22:44.519 There's so many. 30 cards. Note this dragon is 00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:46.940 in the early pack. He's hiding. I found his children. 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:51.079 There's Sleipnir. There's Fenrir. Where are you? 00:22:51.730 --> 00:22:54.210 Ah, you're hiding behind Odin, are you? Yes, 00:22:54.210 --> 00:22:55.930 there he is. He's literally hiding behind Odin, 00:22:55.970 --> 00:23:00.130 which is very Loki. There he is. And I love how 00:23:00.130 --> 00:23:01.890 you've given him little runes and his little 00:23:01.890 --> 00:23:04.890 magic. I love that about the magic because I 00:23:04.890 --> 00:23:09.569 wanted like, I feel like, because I like, I feel 00:23:09.569 --> 00:23:11.950 like magic is very like words, spoken word and 00:23:11.950 --> 00:23:13.829 stuff like that. So I feel like giving them like 00:23:13.829 --> 00:23:15.789 the appearance of their language in it would 00:23:15.789 --> 00:23:18.369 be like just tangible of like doing a spell. 00:23:18.829 --> 00:23:21.680 And I made him blonde because I was very aware 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:25.640 of Tom Hilsen's depictions and also because Thor 00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:29.759 is ginger and I wanted that dynamic of like a 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:35.640 blonde Loki. Also I was reading a lot of fantasy 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:39.920 romance books at the time that the blonde love 00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:42.259 interest was never anyone's favourite so I quite 00:23:42.259 --> 00:23:45.880 find it funny that like Loki is the love interest 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:52.150 that's not anyone's favourite. Oh, so what are 00:23:52.150 --> 00:23:54.529 the other artifacts that you've snuck into the 00:23:54.529 --> 00:23:57.190 designs that viewers and listeners might want 00:23:57.190 --> 00:23:59.410 to look out for if they do indeed purchase the 00:23:59.410 --> 00:24:06.430 entire collection? So there's a lot of, there'll 00:24:06.430 --> 00:24:09.109 be a lot of like their brooches have actual patterns 00:24:09.109 --> 00:24:13.450 on from like what I've seen like in the stuff. 00:24:14.089 --> 00:24:15.269 There's a, sadly there's a lot of stuff that 00:24:15.269 --> 00:24:16.890 was like cut out because of the side of the card. 00:24:17.089 --> 00:24:20.410 So like there is, I didn't mention like, so The 00:24:20.410 --> 00:24:24.869 one Skadi, she does have ice skates on, but because 00:24:24.869 --> 00:24:26.829 of the size of the card, they've been caught 00:24:26.829 --> 00:24:29.829 off. So they would have had like ice skates on, 00:24:29.890 --> 00:24:32.049 which I got a picture of. I think, yeah, it was 00:24:32.049 --> 00:24:35.410 just more little details. So like Thor's belt, 00:24:35.529 --> 00:24:37.849 which again, a bit cut off, but that is a proper 00:24:37.849 --> 00:24:40.529 belt they showed me and stuff like that. So it 00:24:40.529 --> 00:24:42.490 was really interesting to see all these different 00:24:42.490 --> 00:24:45.049 finds and see, I loved picking out the different 00:24:45.049 --> 00:24:47.329 patterns in them and figuring out where I could 00:24:47.329 --> 00:24:50.519 leave them into the characters because Vikings 00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:54.059 have very colourful clothing, but sometimes I 00:24:54.059 --> 00:24:56.180 like to like disinter it by putting something 00:24:56.180 --> 00:24:58.059 in like the cloaks or putting something on their 00:24:58.059 --> 00:25:00.359 sole use and stuff like that. So they had just 00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:05.460 like a little pattern, a little like flair. So 00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:09.099 besides the unfortunately not used tree man version 00:25:09.099 --> 00:25:11.339 of Mimei, was there any other particular favourites 00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:14.599 you had in the official set when it was fixed 00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:18.279 and in place? I really love the Valkyrie. That 00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:20.259 didn't change. Apart from the winged helmet, 00:25:20.859 --> 00:25:24.180 she didn't change at all. I could literally just 00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:26.559 put her new helmet on. It was quite funny. I 00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:29.299 was like, too gentle for the helmet. And then 00:25:29.299 --> 00:25:31.759 I really like the Norns, because I just really 00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:36.319 like the atmosphere of that card. And I love 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:38.980 the idea of a witch's coven just around the well 00:25:38.980 --> 00:25:42.460 and deciding. I love Huggins and Muggins. They 00:25:42.460 --> 00:25:45.940 were my favorite. I started working at Yorvik. 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:49.859 I had the idea that they were just like, gossiping 00:25:49.859 --> 00:25:52.819 grannies. Like, they would just come and go like, 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:55.740 oh, we've heard this today, Thor. And they're 00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:59.859 like, this is... And they just became my little 00:25:59.859 --> 00:26:01.799 favorite two guys. And that's why I wanted to 00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:03.859 have them chat together. We've actually got... 00:26:03.609 --> 00:26:06.170 I made, I got two Ravens and made them little 00:26:06.170 --> 00:26:10.009 cloaks and now me and Mike have them like on 00:26:10.009 --> 00:26:14.910 our desks. Oh it's adorable! Oh the official 00:26:14.910 --> 00:26:17.930 mascots of Yorvik there surely. Yeah I want to 00:26:17.930 --> 00:26:20.250 like add them into little videos and stuff I 00:26:20.250 --> 00:26:23.130 just love them so much and then yeah I think 00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:29.289 any I think I I love all the cards I do I think 00:26:29.289 --> 00:26:34.059 for I just there were some that I think Oh, I 00:26:34.059 --> 00:26:36.500 like Nidhogg too, just because I really like 00:26:36.500 --> 00:26:38.319 dragons and I just think he's such a cool dog. 00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:43.000 Yeah, there he is. Snake and with wings. I must 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:45.619 admit when I was rereading through them just 00:26:45.619 --> 00:26:48.519 before we pressed record on this very fun interview, 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:51.640 I must say, I thought, oh, he goes to wings and 00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:53.220 he comes back at the end of Earl, but no one 00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:54.740 knows what he will do to the other survivors. 00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.109 That's new to me. I mean, I've read the myths 00:26:58.109 --> 00:27:01.549 but quite often kind of like in very modern retellings 00:27:01.549 --> 00:27:03.789 where it's not word for word what's written in 00:27:03.789 --> 00:27:06.910 the various sagas and pieces of because as you 00:27:06.910 --> 00:27:09.450 say that's quite often the trick with these Norse 00:27:09.450 --> 00:27:13.049 stories is we have bits of them and they're written 00:27:13.049 --> 00:27:16.670 centuries after everyone's been Christianised 00:27:16.670 --> 00:27:19.630 so we don't have the complete puzzle by any means. 00:27:20.309 --> 00:27:22.170 I've certainly learnt that when I've been doing 00:27:22.170 --> 00:27:24.730 my research on Valkyries and their representation 00:27:24.730 --> 00:27:28.200 how we think of them and how we use them and 00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:30.279 depict them kind of thing. It's all, even like 00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:33.779 the famous Saga of the Volsungs, that's come 00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:35.779 in bits and pieces and there's different versions 00:27:35.779 --> 00:27:38.160 of it that portray Brynhildr one way, portray 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:40.920 Brynhildr the other. I mean, all of them, she 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:44.240 ends up being the figure of tragedy. But it's 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:48.200 been interesting learning how these gaps, A, 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:51.799 are a curse because we want to know more. We 00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:53.819 want to know exactly what these liking people 00:27:53.819 --> 00:27:56.269 thought and believed. But then because we're 00:27:56.269 --> 00:28:00.509 missing these gaps, it's allowed our futuristic 00:28:00.509 --> 00:28:02.990 imaginations to fill them in. And that, at the 00:28:02.990 --> 00:28:04.930 same time, has helped these stories and these 00:28:04.930 --> 00:28:08.069 characters exist for centuries beyond belief, 00:28:08.309 --> 00:28:12.549 really, compared to other kind of like Kantians 00:28:12.549 --> 00:28:14.430 and belief systems, which just have all kind 00:28:14.430 --> 00:28:15.930 of like, they've either been locked in rigid 00:28:15.930 --> 00:28:17.890 like Christianity. It's the Bible, the Testament, 00:28:18.009 --> 00:28:21.490 the Old Testament, and whatever comes next, basically. 00:28:21.730 --> 00:28:27.140 I don't know what that is. but kind of like Buddhist 00:28:27.140 --> 00:28:29.539 tales and that kind of thing. They're all quite 00:28:29.539 --> 00:28:32.660 fixed and definitive, but the Viking stories, 00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:35.519 that belief system, it's not definitive, it's 00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:37.599 not fixed, it's not even tangible. It's very 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:40.619 adaptable, malleable, and it is often shaped 00:28:40.619 --> 00:28:43.240 to reflect society and our views and beliefs 00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:46.420 at the time kind of thing. So yes, it's been 00:28:46.420 --> 00:28:48.579 really fascinating to see kind of like how you've 00:28:48.579 --> 00:28:50.900 interpreted all these characters in your artwork, 00:28:51.099 --> 00:28:54.339 which is very age -friendly, I must admit. and 00:28:54.339 --> 00:28:55.880 I would love to see these in a book, they're 00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:59.880 just awesome. Especially here in the moon and 00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:03.779 I just love the idea of them gossiping. But yeah 00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:09.720 it's just wonderful. So I guess you've touched 00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:12.579 base on how you've learnt a lot from Lucas as 00:29:12.579 --> 00:29:14.940 a mythology expert and my salute Lucas, he does 00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:17.650 a wonderful job at Yorvik. I remember going to 00:29:17.650 --> 00:29:20.549 his debut Halloween Dark Sagas tour at Yorvik 00:29:20.549 --> 00:29:23.150 Bikeyside last autumn and he was on fire, he 00:29:23.150 --> 00:29:25.509 was on point. So were the other guys that worked 00:29:25.509 --> 00:29:27.769 with him, including the guy who played Odin. 00:29:28.029 --> 00:29:33.240 He generally made my mum jump. And then she was 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:36.119 like on tent hooks all the way around. But yeah, 00:29:36.380 --> 00:29:38.140 I thought that was a brilliant, A, that's a really 00:29:38.140 --> 00:29:40.339 innovative use of Yorby as a museum. I thought 00:29:40.339 --> 00:29:43.200 that's inspired. I couldn't get to the Yule one, 00:29:43.339 --> 00:29:44.759 unfortunately, otherwise I would have gone to 00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:47.059 that. But I need to need any excuse and I'll 00:29:47.059 --> 00:29:49.700 be there. I mean, I even took my best friend 00:29:49.700 --> 00:29:53.140 James around Yorby. Was it earlier this summer? 00:29:54.140 --> 00:29:56.920 No, was it earlier? Yeah it must have been earlier 00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:58.839 this year in fact on the day off that we had 00:29:58.839 --> 00:30:00.099 together because he hasn't been there in like 00:30:00.099 --> 00:30:02.319 nearly 10 years I thought you need to go you 00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:04.880 need to see it's all awesome and we're kind of 00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:06.480 like I kept telling him oh that's that and that's 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:07.839 that so he didn't really listen to the commentary 00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:10.539 because I was too busy doing it for him because 00:30:10.539 --> 00:30:15.180 I've been around that much. But it certainly 00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:17.579 would have been interesting I think to have a 00:30:17.579 --> 00:30:20.160 top drum set that either did the artifacts because 00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:22.059 gosh what stats would you could you put with 00:30:22.059 --> 00:30:23.640 all the artifacts you've got like the frying 00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:27.019 pan I love it. a Flynn Rider, just a North Flynn 00:30:27.019 --> 00:30:30.759 Rider, yep I'll have that please. And of course 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.740 the woolen sock and all the kind of like the 00:30:33.740 --> 00:30:35.519 ice skates, there's so many and of course so 00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:37.519 many artifacts that are on display because Jorvik 00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:41.180 found so much, the dig that is. And of course 00:30:41.180 --> 00:30:43.450 using the people, I thought that's... another 00:30:43.450 --> 00:30:45.490 really interesting idea because of course I always 00:30:45.490 --> 00:30:47.549 know of course Bogart the one on the toilet that 00:30:47.549 --> 00:30:50.230 is often on promotion is the man that's permanently 00:30:50.230 --> 00:30:52.869 always on the toilet bless him no one's yet given 00:30:52.869 --> 00:30:55.809 him a laxative I think he needs it now after 00:30:55.809 --> 00:30:59.170 nearly 40 odd years of being on the toilet Herman 00:30:59.170 --> 00:31:04.990 and of course as you mentioned I think that was 00:31:04.990 --> 00:31:07.789 in relation to the old woman that had needed 00:31:07.789 --> 00:31:11.390 to use had a limp because of her hip problem 00:31:11.390 --> 00:31:13.309 that they found in their bones because I always 00:31:13.309 --> 00:31:15.650 love going past her and I thought, oh gosh, just 00:31:15.650 --> 00:31:19.009 think across you. But yeah, there's so many of 00:31:19.009 --> 00:31:21.470 the characters. I mean, it still makes me chuckle 00:31:21.470 --> 00:31:23.309 when we go past from the ride and say, oh yes, 00:31:23.390 --> 00:31:25.069 here's a woman with her baby trying to work out 00:31:25.069 --> 00:31:27.089 what to buy for lunch. This man's selling her 00:31:27.089 --> 00:31:29.049 a cabbage. I don't think she's interested. Aren't 00:31:29.049 --> 00:31:31.470 our problems the same? I'm like, yes, we still 00:31:31.470 --> 00:31:33.150 don't know what to do for tea most days and we 00:31:33.150 --> 00:31:35.450 still get to try to buy things that we don't 00:31:35.450 --> 00:31:39.609 really need at all. As a mum, I completely related 00:31:39.609 --> 00:31:44.609 to that scene very much now. You look really 00:31:44.609 --> 00:31:46.210 aggressive selling her that cabbage. I'm like, 00:31:46.210 --> 00:31:54.509 I'd be unsure of that cabbage. Yeah, so now that 00:31:54.509 --> 00:31:56.630 obviously your week's back in February and we're 00:31:56.630 --> 00:31:59.630 now in the month of May, do you have any idea 00:31:59.630 --> 00:32:02.809 how successful your wonderful pack of Top Trump's 00:32:02.809 --> 00:32:08.259 card has been? I think, to be fair, We've heard 00:32:08.259 --> 00:32:10.839 we get a lot of sales from it. I think the shops 00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:14.960 always say something very well and anyone that's 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:19.079 Like had contact with those or like Lisa or George 00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:20.680 have just said how much they love the pack which 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:26.559 I just love because Well, I just having it like 00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:30.839 I I just look at them because it just it's so 00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:34.319 nice to have such an accomplished um not accomplished 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:37.160 like a cumulative amount of work like in your 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:41.079 hand and just like yeah and like all of us came 00:32:41.079 --> 00:32:44.099 together for it it's been it's everyone was really 00:32:44.099 --> 00:32:45.839 excited when it launched and i think everyone's 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:49.900 been like like just so happy they're here and 00:32:49.900 --> 00:32:54.059 i'm just like it makes me happy now i guess uh 00:32:54.059 --> 00:32:55.480 one of the other questions i was like have you 00:32:55.480 --> 00:32:58.619 got yourself a set do you have do you have one 00:32:58.619 --> 00:33:02.440 of maybe the first ones of the press yeah um 00:33:02.349 --> 00:33:07.289 Mine are still sealed. Oh, bless you. I looked 00:33:07.289 --> 00:33:10.009 through them and I still need to buy myself a 00:33:10.009 --> 00:33:13.970 pack that are not sealed so that we can play 00:33:13.970 --> 00:33:16.309 them. I just not got round to it yet. This is 00:33:16.309 --> 00:33:18.049 like my first pack. They were like, here you 00:33:18.049 --> 00:33:20.069 go, here they are. And I was like, and I saw 00:33:20.069 --> 00:33:22.230 like the, we had a pack that was open in the 00:33:22.230 --> 00:33:25.170 office. I was like, this will be like the collector's 00:33:25.170 --> 00:33:28.470 item when I'm all over. and i'm just like yes 00:33:28.470 --> 00:33:31.549 i did this at one point show my grandkids and 00:33:31.549 --> 00:33:32.789 they're like yeah whatever grandma and i'm like 00:33:32.789 --> 00:33:36.109 yeah but look i'll open them for you we can i've 00:33:36.109 --> 00:33:38.029 got my own pack that's leathered because i've 00:33:38.029 --> 00:33:43.730 played it so i just finally is sorry carry on 00:33:43.730 --> 00:33:46.930 no it's all right yeah it's just like oh yeah 00:33:46.930 --> 00:33:50.630 i've got um i think i got my momma pack my granddad 00:33:50.630 --> 00:33:53.190 wanted me to sign his pack so i signed his pack 00:33:53.190 --> 00:33:56.880 for him and then yeah and I'm working out like 00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:58.839 just getting different packs for different people 00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:02.059 so my mother -in -law is still waiting for her 00:34:02.059 --> 00:34:03.779 pack and stuff and I'm like I will get it to 00:34:03.779 --> 00:34:08.280 you soon! Well it is a remarkable achievement 00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:11.500 and you should be quite rightly proud of it and 00:34:11.500 --> 00:34:13.320 so should all your family and friends because 00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:16.820 it's amazing it's the first of its kind for Yorwik 00:34:16.820 --> 00:34:22.840 and I've been going to Yorwik since 2006 yep 00:34:22.909 --> 00:34:24.869 pretty much when I started uni, I started going. 00:34:26.230 --> 00:34:28.690 And it's the first, it's took him 20 odd years, 00:34:28.730 --> 00:34:30.949 but it's here, it's here, the top trunk of your 00:34:30.949 --> 00:34:34.329 big fit and your name and the imagination and 00:34:34.329 --> 00:34:36.469 talent is behind the core of it, which is the 00:34:36.469 --> 00:34:38.869 images as much as the stats are helpful and the 00:34:38.869 --> 00:34:42.829 little anecdotes. And I'm so glad in a way that 00:34:42.829 --> 00:34:45.030 it was a cumulative team effort behind Jorvik 00:34:45.030 --> 00:34:47.809 because I've always had the impression of Jorvik 00:34:47.809 --> 00:34:49.449 is one big team. As you said at the beginning 00:34:49.449 --> 00:34:51.730 York Archaeology is like the big family name 00:34:51.730 --> 00:34:56.789 for the York Dig, the Jorvik, the third experience 00:34:56.789 --> 00:34:59.309 and all the cakes. They pretty much run most 00:34:59.309 --> 00:35:03.389 of the main big history spaces and buildings 00:35:03.389 --> 00:35:09.039 and exhibitions etc around York. Yeah, I've always 00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:13.059 got the impression because I'm acquainted with 00:35:13.059 --> 00:35:15.760 Dr Chris Duckley of Yorvik, of course, because 00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:17.440 I keep popping up at all the Yorvik events, so 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:20.780 he kind of knows my face and I know him, because 00:35:20.780 --> 00:35:23.619 I'm always there. And I'm delighted to say that 00:35:23.619 --> 00:35:25.820 he's going to be my 20th guest on this podcast 00:35:25.820 --> 00:35:28.599 in the autumn. So I can't wait to talk to him, 00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:30.420 especially because dear viewers and listeners, 00:35:30.500 --> 00:35:32.579 if you haven't checked it out yet, go to the 00:35:32.579 --> 00:35:34.840 Yorvik YouTube channel. They have just released, 00:35:35.019 --> 00:35:37.579 well, it was a couple of weeks ago now, their 00:35:37.579 --> 00:35:40.039 brand new exciting documentary covering the entire 00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:43.260 history of Yorvik as a ride. And I got to see 00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:45.480 most of it, all of it, during the Yorvik tour 00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:46.880 when they premiered it, because I had to leave 00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:49.460 for a train. Because trains and getting to West 00:35:49.460 --> 00:35:50.960 Yorkshire is a bit like trying to find a black 00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:53.099 hole that has an exit. because sometimes you 00:35:53.099 --> 00:35:57.039 go in and you just don't come out. But it is 00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:00.420 amazing and to think that that legacy now has 00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:04.340 a little bit of you in Katie is, I'm just so 00:36:04.340 --> 00:36:07.059 happy for you just because I can feel your passion 00:36:07.059 --> 00:36:10.440 and talent and love for the artwork come through. 00:36:10.619 --> 00:36:13.780 and it's it's it's wonderful but I guess the 00:36:13.780 --> 00:36:15.860 final question I was going to ask of, seeming 00:36:15.860 --> 00:36:18.000 obviously you've mentioned how you learnt of 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:19.840 course Vikings down at Horned Helmets and they 00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:21.980 had ice skates and then you worked really well 00:36:21.980 --> 00:36:23.960 with Lucas to learn about the mythology, has 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:27.059 it given you a bit of an itch to learn more about 00:36:27.059 --> 00:36:29.019 Vikings and their culture and the mythology and 00:36:29.019 --> 00:36:31.650 history? Or do you feel like you've learned enough 00:36:31.650 --> 00:36:36.349 now that you've done top trumps? I like, Lucas 00:36:36.349 --> 00:36:38.349 has given me a superpower. I remember random 00:36:38.349 --> 00:36:41.170 facts about Vikings, especially the sagas. I 00:36:41.170 --> 00:36:42.269 like, I spewed them off. I'm like, do you know 00:36:42.269 --> 00:36:43.969 this? And then we're like, yeah. I'm like, yes, 00:36:44.030 --> 00:36:46.730 now I know. I like to share it. Lucas whenever 00:36:46.730 --> 00:36:49.289 he's doing anything, if he speaks about it, like 00:36:49.289 --> 00:36:52.750 there was stuff about like, he was on about four 00:36:52.750 --> 00:36:55.559 weeks back, how Vikings dye their clothes. he 00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:58.639 was in the office and that's how like the next 00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:00.719 talk he was going to do about and I was like 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.940 yeah quick question how do they and I think like 00:37:03.940 --> 00:37:06.360 because I just yeah you don't I think what was 00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:09.800 crazy is that you I did not think you have like 00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:11.800 an impression of how the Vikings live especially 00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:14.260 because we have so much media of how Vikings 00:37:14.260 --> 00:37:17.880 lived or how we assume Vikings lived but when 00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:20.860 you're faced with like the different like I've 00:37:20.860 --> 00:37:25.059 learned like I can't even think of like what 00:37:25.059 --> 00:37:26.960 I've learned. I've just like the colour and like 00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:29.019 the colour that we bleed and stuff like that. 00:37:29.300 --> 00:37:33.059 And like, I think anytime like we're on stuff, 00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:36.480 I've, it was a very like big learning curve when 00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:39.719 I first started. Cause I was like, what do they 00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:42.179 wear? What don't they wear? And like, it was 00:37:42.179 --> 00:37:45.079 very fun to like, I just feel like I learned 00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:48.619 something new every day. So I, it made me more 00:37:48.619 --> 00:37:50.920 interested in the sagas. Cause I was like, what, 00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:55.519 how do, why do we not know much? And then, yeah, 00:37:55.739 --> 00:37:57.719 so I'm always like curious at work of like, oh, 00:37:57.840 --> 00:37:59.900 why is this? And why have we done that? And stuff 00:37:59.900 --> 00:38:03.059 like that. And like, why did they do that? Just 00:38:03.059 --> 00:38:07.539 getting that question. I think they benefit from 00:38:07.539 --> 00:38:09.380 you from asking those questions because of course 00:38:09.380 --> 00:38:11.639 that's the kind of thing that Lucas is probably 00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:13.960 trying to think of addressing. Kind of like. 00:38:14.090 --> 00:38:16.690 helping people learn these things but also thinking 00:38:16.690 --> 00:38:19.769 well if someone ever googles it he wants obviously 00:38:19.769 --> 00:38:22.250 his highly recommended content to come up to 00:38:22.250 --> 00:38:24.829 provide the answer for it. So I salute you. I 00:38:24.829 --> 00:38:26.309 mean my dad always said there's never such things 00:38:26.309 --> 00:38:28.409 as you be questioned and you're a fool if you 00:38:28.409 --> 00:38:30.010 don't ask it because you learn nothing if you 00:38:30.010 --> 00:38:32.650 don't ask. So well done you for asking all those 00:38:32.650 --> 00:38:40.269 questions. Well yeah I just didn't know anything 00:38:40.269 --> 00:38:43.690 apart from what popular media tells us. like 00:38:43.690 --> 00:38:45.570 I said what popular news tells us vikings are 00:38:45.570 --> 00:38:48.750 and I could knew like I knew like the raids and 00:38:48.750 --> 00:38:52.250 stuff like that but like the the more settled 00:38:52.250 --> 00:38:54.289 version of the society has been really interesting 00:38:54.289 --> 00:38:57.769 to learn about and like their culture every day 00:38:57.769 --> 00:39:03.510 and stuff like that and um yeah what was also 00:39:03.510 --> 00:39:09.949 this it just escaped me um but yeah I think um 00:39:10.509 --> 00:39:14.050 Yeah, it's just grown a more love for the history 00:39:14.050 --> 00:39:19.610 itself. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for 00:39:19.610 --> 00:39:21.630 your time tonight. I really appreciate it. It's 00:39:21.630 --> 00:39:24.130 been a really fun conversation with you, displaying 00:39:24.130 --> 00:39:26.530 all things Norse and your work and your journeys 00:39:26.530 --> 00:39:29.690 in illustrating, of course, your amazing part 00:39:29.690 --> 00:39:31.570 of your big heritage, which is now the official 00:39:31.570 --> 00:39:34.070 top trumps, which is awesome. And I'm so glad 00:39:34.070 --> 00:39:35.630 I brought a set. I just need someone to play 00:39:35.630 --> 00:39:39.619 it with. Maybe my four -year -old one day, which 00:39:39.619 --> 00:39:41.219 is a bit bigger and can actually learn to read. 00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:43.440 I mean, she can do the numbers just about, but 00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:45.179 it's the letter that she wouldn't understand, 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:47.280 bless her. Although she'll be exactly like you. 00:39:47.300 --> 00:39:49.039 She'll be like, why is it Nidhogg? Why is he 00:39:49.039 --> 00:39:51.900 eating dead people? I'm like, oh gosh, maybe 00:39:51.900 --> 00:39:54.920 not, maybe not. She would. She's got that kind 00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:57.260 of inquisitive mind. She trips me up on all sorts 00:39:57.260 --> 00:40:02.039 of things. But yes, I hope. you enjoyed our chat 00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:03.500 as well. Dear viewers and listeners, wherever 00:40:03.500 --> 00:40:05.280 you're watching and listening, please do hit 00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:07.639 the like button, put a comment in below, hit 00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:10.019 subscribe so you can catch the next bonus episode 00:40:10.019 --> 00:40:13.960 of Legends of Jorvik, which will feature Jason 00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:16.860 Buck, a storyteller who was in Jorvik that week 00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:19.599 and told some fascinating folklore tales. He 00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:22.940 would have liked his event, Katie, so I do recommend 00:40:22.940 --> 00:40:24.840 you look him up as well. But there'll be lots 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:26.559 of other content coming, including the usual 00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:30.199 Valhalla podcast episodes. So keep an eye out 00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:32.320 for that. Thank you very much for listening and 00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:34.659 watching. Thank you very much, Katie. Thank you 00:40:34.659 --> 00:40:37.760 for having me. This has been amazing. You're 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:38.480 very welcome.