you Hello everyone and welcome to another bonus
episode of Legends of Jorvik where I, a humble
Jorvik pilgrim who goes to the Jorvik biking
festival that they hold every February, although
once in May, goes to and witnesses many creative
events, meets fabulous people, experts, historians,
theatre production companies, reenactors, you
name it, they've got it, and I'm lucky to have
faxed down. and gently requested a few of the
guests from this year's festival 2025 to join
me on my podcast and tonight we have a very special
guest called Katie Smith who works at York Archaeology
and her connection ladies and gentlemen is that
she designed the official top trumps for the
Yorvik Viking Centre. Look at all those cards!
and their pretty pictures. And I will have ones
popping up and around the screen as we go through
the talk, so don't you worry everyone, you will
see them. But I do encourage everyone to go buy
them. They should still be on sale on the Orvic
website. But let me welcome our guest, Katie.
Welcome to the podcast. Hi, I'm so happy to be
here. Glad that you wanted to speak to me. Well,
this came about simply because I learnt that
you are an alumni like me of the University of
Huddersfield. incredibly enough yeah yeah no
i remember the email you sent Lisa and i was
like oh it's such a i love like connecting with
people but like it just feels like such a lovely
thing to be like we've been in the same place
and stuff Well, your wonderful work with the
top trumps made it on the staff news on the headline
on the university pages for staff. And of course,
I think it was even on the main website as well.
Huddersfield alumni Katie Smith designed the
top trumps for your work. I thought, oh, I need
to get her on the podcast. And then, of course,
I got the top trumps and I guess I definitely
need to get her on the podcast because they're
amazing. And I guess we should start from the
beginning with after the kind of like I believe
you did illustration at the university, is that
right? Okay, so how did you then get your current
post at your carchaeology, if you don't mind
me asking? So really, so I graduated in 2020,
which was obviously a really bad time. We were
in like luck and stuff like that. And it was
sort of the case of like sending my dissertation,
right, you finished. And I was like, oh, that's
it. Okay. And then I was It took the year really
to think about what I wanted to do and I really
wanted to get into the children's book illustration
and like more storytelling illustration and then
getting into the, it turned out that like I was
told my whole life that the art industry is really
hard to get into and I took that as a chin and
was like I know it's hard to get into but I'm
gonna get into it and then I spent three years
realising how hard it is to get into it. It really
was a lot of, unfortunately, doing a lot of volunteer
work. I did a lot around Huddersfield. I don't
know if you know of the Hive Cafe? Yes. I did
some of their window displays and ran a workshop
for them. Anything that could go to my portfolio,
I was like, please let me do. And I was working
in a full -time job at the time. So it was just
like, this is what I wanted to do. I'm going
to try and do it. of which like me to kind of
sort of apply for anything and everything i was
like please just somebody give me a chance so
i applied for the um so i tried like graphic
design roles i tried artwork roles anything that
said creative graphic design i wasn't getting
anywhere with graphic design when i have friends
that are graphic design and i'm going to look
for their work i was like oh i see this is why
i'm not getting work because it's completely
different and i respect that So I decided I'd
be really good, I think I'd be a really good
assistant or like do like intern, so I just looked
at graphic design assistant because I was like
anything I could do I could learn. I'm very much
like you show me I will learn it, I will watch
any video I can and York Archaeology came up
needing a graphic design assistant and I applied
for it and I did the interview it was my illustration
skills that got me the role because um George
my um team and the graphic designer was like
I haven't got that skill you've got that skill
let's yeah I was like oh that is like the best
thing I've ever heard that's all I've wanted
to hear and then getting I had the interview
got the job the day after had oh yeah it was
like oh my god this is amazing had to help my
boss like then I went in to my boss the Sunday
because I worked in like a chef I was a chef
for a bit um and but I didn't want to hand in
my notes till I had like the written confirmation
yes yeah I was like it felt too much like a dream
what do you mean I'm just gonna become a graphic
designer and the thing about it was I was really
expecting I didn't know they'd chosen me for
the illustration at the time and I wasn't really
expecting to do much big creative work like top
trumps and like other projects I've worked on
because I was the assistant I was like I'll do
a few posters I'll do some ads like my job was
like well do you even know how much they're gonna
pay you like you're leaving this job and I was
like you don't care like they could pay me in
buttons and I'd just be like please thank you
oh um and then yeah so I would just I would just
have it was this has been my break into the industry
I was so I've been so grateful I've enjoyed every
moment of it and um I didn't realize York Archaeology
ran Yorvik or dig or when I joined they were
like have you heard of Yorvik and I was like
sort of and so I didn't even realize like what
I was actually getting into and yeah if you'd
asked told me three years ago that I was going
to be drawing Vikings for the Viking Centre in
York or like doing the top trumps and stuff like
that. I wouldn't believe you. I was like, you're
tall. What is that even a job? Like, are they
even looking for people like me? And then, yeah,
so it's just the weird way life takes you. And
I'm so glad that I was able to, they've accepted
me and I've been able to do their work for them.
That is a wonderful story and I'm so glad it
paid off for you because so many people do try
to get their dream job with whatever skill or
talent they have. I know I personally I went
to the University of Hudsfield to do English
studies with creative writing with a humble dream
of being the next JK Rowling. That kind of kept
me going through the three years and after the
three years stopped I had no more deadlines so
I had no great mindset of fighting so eventually
I windled off writing and became more of a reader.
I mean I've been a reader from the word dot anyway.
Soon as I could read I was a bookworm. And then
somehow my creative talents shifted into cosplay
for a couple of years and then the pandemic and
pregnancy happened. And now here I am podcasting.
So my creative talents just follow my passion
wherever it seems to go. It hasn't quite yet
paid off in a paid job yet. I am available if
anyone wants me to do a paid podcast. particularly
on Vikings I can cover that one. But yes, on
the whole I have been happily working most of
my job life has been because when I graduated
university in 2009, so it's a good world for
you, I managed to get a job at Huddersfield New
College where I was the assistant librarian and
then I became the library officer when the rest
of the team retired and then eventually I became
the college librarian. And then after nine years
there, six of them solo which was a transformation
but I enjoyed it immensely. I managed to then
get a post as a senior library assistant back
at my old university so I kind of like left for
nine years and then came back. So yes I'm back
a part of a team, it's a smaller job less responsibility
but it's given me the foundation that I needed
to have my family which I now have. So both of
our lives eventually worked out after. various
circles and trials nothing good comes easy as
they often say so to get back to the top trump
set which they have there are many can you remember
how many cards you've done casey as a quick pop
question and then an extra special one for the
festival There was, I wasn't able to get that
one because I sadly didn't have time or chance
to complete the trail to get it but I believe
it was a special one so yes. So how did this
idea come up then? Did Top Trumps approach Yorvik?
Did Yorvik approach Top Trumps? Did someone say
why don't we do a Top Trumps and then run it
forward or? As far as I'm aware we've had Top
Trumps kind of in the sphere for a while like
in the space for a while. It's been sort of like
trying to justify if it was worth the company
investing in. And then Lisa worked at Magic.
And then, yeah, one day in August, she was like,
I have an exciting proposal for you. And I was
like, ooh, what is it? And then she was like,
would you like to illustrate our top jumps? And
I was like, yes, thank you. So I... That is all
Lisa magic. I, my manager, I don't know, she
proved that it's worth it. She got involved with
Top Trumps. I was like, yeah, I was just on the
off end and I was like, yeah. So I guess, did
you know much about Top Trumps as a card game
before that point? Yeah, well, it's always, I
feel like it's a staple. kids game, innit? Like,
I've never fully played a game and I don't think,
I didn't know how to play the game when we got
approached without drums. When they explained
the game to me, I was like, ah, how did I not
know? But I think I just didn't, I don't, I didn't
read instructions as a kid and it was always
something we, yeah, it's always something we
got as like, for Christmas and stuff. I feel
like I always had a Top Trumps pack in the house.
And I think it was just a case of like, I think
we got a basic concept, but I don't have like
a full memory of like, this is how you play the
game and this is what you do to play the game.
So I knew of the brand. And then I was quite...
I can't think of the word. We related because
Lisa had never played the game and we'd like...
So we got to... We were, it was exciting that
when we got to like do test runs of our pack
and stuff like that when they were coming. Oh
fab! So yeah, I knew of them and I've never,
I have now played that game but growing up I
had them and never played. So for viewers and
listeners who may not be in either familiar or
in the same boat that I've remembered top trumps
from their own childhood but couldn't for the
life of them. or am I not just be able to record
these rules? Would you like to give us a brief
summary of how you play top drums? So you all
divide the cards and it's sort of a versus game.
So you will, you hide your, you hide your hand
cards. And you say you have five categories.
These categories could range from wisdom to like
magic, which are on the top trump cards like
battle Paris and they all have a rating you will
say I I think you say the character for battle
Paris 64 and then the other person will either
give you their card because their battle Paris
is lower or you have to give them their card
your cards them because their battle Paris is
higher and it's all a game of like it's not always
about a game going for the obvious score like
don't always go for the obvious high number because
they might have like where you might have a real
low number they might even have a lower number
or like you never know which one's going to come
out on top brilliant thank you very much that's
really succinctly put that's certainly the way
i remember very vaguely playing pokemon cards
once upon a time back in the 1990s and even then
i don't think i played it right Yeah again a
game I had loads of cards for because I loved
the characters and like I watched the anime but
never until I was like 19 I'd never played a
full game through and I think I just remember
like just showing them off and be like yeah my
pretty card. So okay so Lisa told you that the
deal is on can you design the pictures how did
it all begin? Did you talk to a particular person
to find out much lore about the characters? Did
you have to draft a list of names first to know
who you're designing? So, yeah, this is really
interesting because we had, we have a big team
at York Archaeology. We have a lot of, we have
like the education section, we have like the
finds, artefact sections, and we have like mythological
experts on like hand of all. different areas
of your archaeology and this being a really exciting
project they all wanted to be a part of it which
is brilliant and that was like the first hurdle
was who are we going to have as our cards because
it wasn't particularly obvious at first to do
Norse mythology we were playing around with the
characters at the Jorvik in the Jorvik ride so
like we were going to play around with like Boga
and like Laboba but again pronunciation because
um yeah because on the ride we have characters
that um were found at the archaeologist site
and we can say yeah these people were like here
um and then I threw out the idea because we have
a another exhibition that tours around the countries
or tours around like the world called um heroes
which is real viking people that were like heroes
and I remember the names there's like I wouldn't
be surprised if there was Freydis from Greenland
because she was the one that snapped her breasts
with the sword she's always on the top there
when you think you have to female psychos because
I think I did see that when it toured I might
have seen it in New York because I remember seeing
it in the Barnsley town hall because of course
I'm live in West York now and that's the nearest
townhouse anywhere my husband's from anyway so
I remember seeing it there probably got photos
of my Facebook page of it many many years ago
but yes I remember seeing that exhibition. Well
and I think what helped me is I'd drawn them
prior because it had recently gone to France
and they wanted an illustration element so I'd
recently drawn them. So I was like those and
because we were still thinking of the Jorvik
characters I was like well they seem not so overpowered.
to like the orbit characters i feel like because
they're on the same level just a bit more like
had a bit more wit or a bit more like leadership
you can kind of go with that because then norse
mythology got thrown in we were like shall we
have the gods too and then it was like well we
kept the gods versus the heroes because now i
think you rank out the orbit characters because
they're just civilians and then i think it was
just less there's so much to dive in with Norse
mythology let's just do Norse mythology and also
because they're all sort of on the same battlefield
like you can have a category that is magic because
they do have magic whereas like the hero characters
might have not ranked high in magic because they're
real people and may have had legends where they
could have been seen to be using magic but I
don't think yeah so it was Norse mythology, and
then it was the exciting thing of, I think the
first point was I was going to draw, I drew the
characters. I drew two, I drew a Valkyrie and
I drew Mimir. Ah, interesting choice. Well, so
I was going off Google searches, which is why
this is quite a funny story. So we were working
out So we had Lucas the methodological expert
and we had education working out all the logistics
and details and I wanted to secure the style
of the characters before because it was quite
um I had like a month to do this so I wanted
to secure the style so that There could be little
changes, but no one would be shocked what they
look like. Everyone can agree that this is what
they're going to look like. So it was a Google
searching for me first because I know a little
bit, but mine is very much like, um, very much
Marvel and what I could find in it. Like I found
out that Vikings don't wear horns on their helmets
when I started working at Yorvik. And I had a
lot of like, I was like, that's a Victorian invention.
So the Valkyrie came out with a winged helmet,
because I was doing Google searches. Also because
I was like, they're gods. Surely they can have,
I get the cat of horns, but surely they have
decorative helmets. And then Meimei was funny
because I was searching up Meimei and the Assassin
Creed did a character for their game. And he
looked like a man -face in a tree. like a man
head in a tree and I thought Mimei was a tree
man so I drew this great oak with the details
of the wood would be like the Viking helmet and
his face and his beard would be like moss and
it was honestly one of my favourite drawings
and I'm like we need to use it somewhere it's
just very typical And so I sent it off to them.
They loved the style. But yeah, Lucas came to
me and was like, maybe he's not actually a tree
man. I was like, what? He's a talking head. So
I thought that was really clever. And then so
from there, me and Lucas had a lot of meetings
where he, he being the mythological expert and
talks a lot about sagas, he gave me the rundown
of the saga from what the thing was and then
from what the character was. And I would And
then we had a meeting where I would like discuss
what is like kind of yes and no for Vikings.
So like, because in Tigers, they call themselves
giants a lot. So I was like, these are the giants.
Like when I think of giants, is that what I'm
thinking about? Yes, that's a good point. Yeah.
And he's like, no, no, the giants are just, I
think they're like closest to gods they can get
without, they're not physically giant people.
And I think it was the same with dwarves. It's
the same with elves. I was like, What are the
rings? Can I draw a guy with pointy ears? And
he's like, no, no, they're just like certain
types of Vikings. And I was like, okay. But yeah,
it was very good to like, well, that's where
I found out that sagas aren't, aren't like what
I assume the Greek myths are, which are like
full stories or like they're kind of like bits
and pieces of poems. And that's why like Nidhogg.
Yes, Nidhogg. Nidhogg. a snake that was like
eating the roots of the tree but then in Ragnarok
grew wings but it wasn't discussed that he had
wings before and dropped dead bodies I was like
oh so he gained abilities I like that that was
like the most interesting part and then the way
that education came in because top trumps can
be used in top trumps is certified to be used
in educational aspects during schools and stuff
like that They wanted to put in like their bits
and stuff like that and we really wanted to have
artifacts from what we found at York Archaeology.
So the Valkyrie has the, I forgot the name of
the helmet, but it's the helmet they found. The
Coppergate helmet. Really? I'm looking her up
now. Where is she? I know she's in here somewhere.
There she is. Oh, she does. How have I not noticed
that? There she is, the Valkyrie. I'll have a
bigger version on the screen around here somewhere,
but she'll pop up in all her glorious colour.
Yes, that's a beautiful thing to do. How clever.
Yeah, so like I found out that Vikings had ice
skates and skis. I didn't know they had that.
It's just stuff you don't think about and then
they do and you're like, oh my god. But yeah,
I think a lot of the runes, like I want it. um
Lucas directed me on the little runes because
I wanted to be cheeky and spell stuff out in
runes not anything bad but just like Valkyrie
was here and he's like because of how runes are
not they're not direct to our language our alphabet
yeah like here are some runes you can use so
that idea kind of got lost but I was like I wanted
like Valkyrie's here or look he was here I noticed
that, oh, let me find Loki now because he is,
I really like him, if only because for the first
time I've ever seen him in many depictions, he's
blonde, which I don't often come across. He's
so often the redhead. And yet it's also Thor
that's the redhead. Where are you? Where are
you Thor? Where are you? That's Tyr. That's Linnir.
There's so many. 30 cards. Note this dragon is
in the early pack. He's hiding. I found his children.
There's Sleipnir. There's Fenrir. Where are you?
Ah, you're hiding behind Odin, are you? Yes,
there he is. He's literally hiding behind Odin,
which is very Loki. There he is. And I love how
you've given him little runes and his little
magic. I love that about the magic because I
wanted like, I feel like, because I like, I feel
like magic is very like words, spoken word and
stuff like that. So I feel like giving them like
the appearance of their language in it would
be like just tangible of like doing a spell.
And I made him blonde because I was very aware
of Tom Hilsen's depictions and also because Thor
is ginger and I wanted that dynamic of like a
blonde Loki. Also I was reading a lot of fantasy
romance books at the time that the blonde love
interest was never anyone's favourite so I quite
find it funny that like Loki is the love interest
that's not anyone's favourite. Oh, so what are
the other artifacts that you've snuck into the
designs that viewers and listeners might want
to look out for if they do indeed purchase the
entire collection? So there's a lot of, there'll
be a lot of like their brooches have actual patterns
on from like what I've seen like in the stuff.
There's a, sadly there's a lot of stuff that
was like cut out because of the side of the card.
So like there is, I didn't mention like, so The
one Skadi, she does have ice skates on, but because
of the size of the card, they've been caught
off. So they would have had like ice skates on,
which I got a picture of. I think, yeah, it was
just more little details. So like Thor's belt,
which again, a bit cut off, but that is a proper
belt they showed me and stuff like that. So it
was really interesting to see all these different
finds and see, I loved picking out the different
patterns in them and figuring out where I could
leave them into the characters because Vikings
have very colourful clothing, but sometimes I
like to like disinter it by putting something
in like the cloaks or putting something on their
sole use and stuff like that. So they had just
like a little pattern, a little like flair. So
besides the unfortunately not used tree man version
of Mimei, was there any other particular favourites
you had in the official set when it was fixed
and in place? I really love the Valkyrie. That
didn't change. Apart from the winged helmet,
she didn't change at all. I could literally just
put her new helmet on. It was quite funny. I
was like, too gentle for the helmet. And then
I really like the Norns, because I just really
like the atmosphere of that card. And I love
the idea of a witch's coven just around the well
and deciding. I love Huggins and Muggins. They
were my favorite. I started working at Yorvik.
I had the idea that they were just like, gossiping
grannies. Like, they would just come and go like,
oh, we've heard this today, Thor. And they're
like, this is... And they just became my little
favorite two guys. And that's why I wanted to
have them chat together. We've actually got...
I made, I got two Ravens and made them little
cloaks and now me and Mike have them like on
our desks. Oh it's adorable! Oh the official
mascots of Yorvik there surely. Yeah I want to
like add them into little videos and stuff I
just love them so much and then yeah I think
any I think I I love all the cards I do I think
for I just there were some that I think Oh, I
like Nidhogg too, just because I really like
dragons and I just think he's such a cool dog.
Yeah, there he is. Snake and with wings. I must
admit when I was rereading through them just
before we pressed record on this very fun interview,
I must say, I thought, oh, he goes to wings and
he comes back at the end of Earl, but no one
knows what he will do to the other survivors.
That's new to me. I mean, I've read the myths
but quite often kind of like in very modern retellings
where it's not word for word what's written in
the various sagas and pieces of because as you
say that's quite often the trick with these Norse
stories is we have bits of them and they're written
centuries after everyone's been Christianised
so we don't have the complete puzzle by any means.
I've certainly learnt that when I've been doing
my research on Valkyries and their representation
how we think of them and how we use them and
depict them kind of thing. It's all, even like
the famous Saga of the Volsungs, that's come
in bits and pieces and there's different versions
of it that portray Brynhildr one way, portray
Brynhildr the other. I mean, all of them, she
ends up being the figure of tragedy. But it's
been interesting learning how these gaps, A,
are a curse because we want to know more. We
want to know exactly what these liking people
thought and believed. But then because we're
missing these gaps, it's allowed our futuristic
imaginations to fill them in. And that, at the
same time, has helped these stories and these
characters exist for centuries beyond belief,
really, compared to other kind of like Kantians
and belief systems, which just have all kind
of like, they've either been locked in rigid
like Christianity. It's the Bible, the Testament,
the Old Testament, and whatever comes next, basically.
I don't know what that is. but kind of like Buddhist
tales and that kind of thing. They're all quite
fixed and definitive, but the Viking stories,
that belief system, it's not definitive, it's
not fixed, it's not even tangible. It's very
adaptable, malleable, and it is often shaped
to reflect society and our views and beliefs
at the time kind of thing. So yes, it's been
really fascinating to see kind of like how you've
interpreted all these characters in your artwork,
which is very age -friendly, I must admit. and
I would love to see these in a book, they're
just awesome. Especially here in the moon and
I just love the idea of them gossiping. But yeah
it's just wonderful. So I guess you've touched
base on how you've learnt a lot from Lucas as
a mythology expert and my salute Lucas, he does
a wonderful job at Yorvik. I remember going to
his debut Halloween Dark Sagas tour at Yorvik
Bikeyside last autumn and he was on fire, he
was on point. So were the other guys that worked
with him, including the guy who played Odin.
He generally made my mum jump. And then she was
like on tent hooks all the way around. But yeah,
I thought that was a brilliant, A, that's a really
innovative use of Yorby as a museum. I thought
that's inspired. I couldn't get to the Yule one,
unfortunately, otherwise I would have gone to
that. But I need to need any excuse and I'll
be there. I mean, I even took my best friend
James around Yorby. Was it earlier this summer?
No, was it earlier? Yeah it must have been earlier
this year in fact on the day off that we had
together because he hasn't been there in like
nearly 10 years I thought you need to go you
need to see it's all awesome and we're kind of
like I kept telling him oh that's that and that's
that so he didn't really listen to the commentary
because I was too busy doing it for him because
I've been around that much. But it certainly
would have been interesting I think to have a
top drum set that either did the artifacts because
gosh what stats would you could you put with
all the artifacts you've got like the frying
pan I love it. a Flynn Rider, just a North Flynn
Rider, yep I'll have that please. And of course
the woolen sock and all the kind of like the
ice skates, there's so many and of course so
many artifacts that are on display because Jorvik
found so much, the dig that is. And of course
using the people, I thought that's... another
really interesting idea because of course I always
know of course Bogart the one on the toilet that
is often on promotion is the man that's permanently
always on the toilet bless him no one's yet given
him a laxative I think he needs it now after
nearly 40 odd years of being on the toilet Herman
and of course as you mentioned I think that was
in relation to the old woman that had needed
to use had a limp because of her hip problem
that they found in their bones because I always
love going past her and I thought, oh gosh, just
think across you. But yeah, there's so many of
the characters. I mean, it still makes me chuckle
when we go past from the ride and say, oh yes,
here's a woman with her baby trying to work out
what to buy for lunch. This man's selling her
a cabbage. I don't think she's interested. Aren't
our problems the same? I'm like, yes, we still
don't know what to do for tea most days and we
still get to try to buy things that we don't
really need at all. As a mum, I completely related
to that scene very much now. You look really
aggressive selling her that cabbage. I'm like,
I'd be unsure of that cabbage. Yeah, so now that
obviously your week's back in February and we're
now in the month of May, do you have any idea
how successful your wonderful pack of Top Trump's
card has been? I think, to be fair, We've heard
we get a lot of sales from it. I think the shops
always say something very well and anyone that's
Like had contact with those or like Lisa or George
have just said how much they love the pack which
I just love because Well, I just having it like
I I just look at them because it just it's so
nice to have such an accomplished um not accomplished
like a cumulative amount of work like in your
hand and just like yeah and like all of us came
together for it it's been it's everyone was really
excited when it launched and i think everyone's
been like like just so happy they're here and
i'm just like it makes me happy now i guess uh
one of the other questions i was like have you
got yourself a set do you have do you have one
of maybe the first ones of the press yeah um
Mine are still sealed. Oh, bless you. I looked
through them and I still need to buy myself a
pack that are not sealed so that we can play
them. I just not got round to it yet. This is
like my first pack. They were like, here you
go, here they are. And I was like, and I saw
like the, we had a pack that was open in the
office. I was like, this will be like the collector's
item when I'm all over. and i'm just like yes
i did this at one point show my grandkids and
they're like yeah whatever grandma and i'm like
yeah but look i'll open them for you we can i've
got my own pack that's leathered because i've
played it so i just finally is sorry carry on
no it's all right yeah it's just like oh yeah
i've got um i think i got my momma pack my granddad
wanted me to sign his pack so i signed his pack
for him and then yeah and I'm working out like
just getting different packs for different people
so my mother -in -law is still waiting for her
pack and stuff and I'm like I will get it to
you soon! Well it is a remarkable achievement
and you should be quite rightly proud of it and
so should all your family and friends because
it's amazing it's the first of its kind for Yorwik
and I've been going to Yorwik since 2006 yep
pretty much when I started uni, I started going.
And it's the first, it's took him 20 odd years,
but it's here, it's here, the top trunk of your
big fit and your name and the imagination and
talent is behind the core of it, which is the
images as much as the stats are helpful and the
little anecdotes. And I'm so glad in a way that
it was a cumulative team effort behind Jorvik
because I've always had the impression of Jorvik
is one big team. As you said at the beginning
York Archaeology is like the big family name
for the York Dig, the Jorvik, the third experience
and all the cakes. They pretty much run most
of the main big history spaces and buildings
and exhibitions etc around York. Yeah, I've always
got the impression because I'm acquainted with
Dr Chris Duckley of Yorvik, of course, because
I keep popping up at all the Yorvik events, so
he kind of knows my face and I know him, because
I'm always there. And I'm delighted to say that
he's going to be my 20th guest on this podcast
in the autumn. So I can't wait to talk to him,
especially because dear viewers and listeners,
if you haven't checked it out yet, go to the
Yorvik YouTube channel. They have just released,
well, it was a couple of weeks ago now, their
brand new exciting documentary covering the entire
history of Yorvik as a ride. And I got to see
most of it, all of it, during the Yorvik tour
when they premiered it, because I had to leave
for a train. Because trains and getting to West
Yorkshire is a bit like trying to find a black
hole that has an exit. because sometimes you
go in and you just don't come out. But it is
amazing and to think that that legacy now has
a little bit of you in Katie is, I'm just so
happy for you just because I can feel your passion
and talent and love for the artwork come through.
and it's it's it's wonderful but I guess the
final question I was going to ask of, seeming
obviously you've mentioned how you learnt of
course Vikings down at Horned Helmets and they
had ice skates and then you worked really well
with Lucas to learn about the mythology, has
it given you a bit of an itch to learn more about
Vikings and their culture and the mythology and
history? Or do you feel like you've learned enough
now that you've done top trumps? I like, Lucas
has given me a superpower. I remember random
facts about Vikings, especially the sagas. I
like, I spewed them off. I'm like, do you know
this? And then we're like, yeah. I'm like, yes,
now I know. I like to share it. Lucas whenever
he's doing anything, if he speaks about it, like
there was stuff about like, he was on about four
weeks back, how Vikings dye their clothes. he
was in the office and that's how like the next
talk he was going to do about and I was like
yeah quick question how do they and I think like
because I just yeah you don't I think what was
crazy is that you I did not think you have like
an impression of how the Vikings live especially
because we have so much media of how Vikings
lived or how we assume Vikings lived but when
you're faced with like the different like I've
learned like I can't even think of like what
I've learned. I've just like the colour and like
the colour that we bleed and stuff like that.
And like, I think anytime like we're on stuff,
I've, it was a very like big learning curve when
I first started. Cause I was like, what do they
wear? What don't they wear? And like, it was
very fun to like, I just feel like I learned
something new every day. So I, it made me more
interested in the sagas. Cause I was like, what,
how do, why do we not know much? And then, yeah,
so I'm always like curious at work of like, oh,
why is this? And why have we done that? And stuff
like that. And like, why did they do that? Just
getting that question. I think they benefit from
you from asking those questions because of course
that's the kind of thing that Lucas is probably
trying to think of addressing. Kind of like.
helping people learn these things but also thinking
well if someone ever googles it he wants obviously
his highly recommended content to come up to
provide the answer for it. So I salute you. I
mean my dad always said there's never such things
as you be questioned and you're a fool if you
don't ask it because you learn nothing if you
don't ask. So well done you for asking all those
questions. Well yeah I just didn't know anything
apart from what popular media tells us. like
I said what popular news tells us vikings are
and I could knew like I knew like the raids and
stuff like that but like the the more settled
version of the society has been really interesting
to learn about and like their culture every day
and stuff like that and um yeah what was also
this it just escaped me um but yeah I think um
Yeah, it's just grown a more love for the history
itself. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for
your time tonight. I really appreciate it. It's
been a really fun conversation with you, displaying
all things Norse and your work and your journeys
in illustrating, of course, your amazing part
of your big heritage, which is now the official
top trumps, which is awesome. And I'm so glad
I brought a set. I just need someone to play
it with. Maybe my four -year -old one day, which
is a bit bigger and can actually learn to read.
I mean, she can do the numbers just about, but
it's the letter that she wouldn't understand,
bless her. Although she'll be exactly like you.
She'll be like, why is it Nidhogg? Why is he
eating dead people? I'm like, oh gosh, maybe
not, maybe not. She would. She's got that kind
of inquisitive mind. She trips me up on all sorts
of things. But yes, I hope. you enjoyed our chat
as well. Dear viewers and listeners, wherever
you're watching and listening, please do hit
the like button, put a comment in below, hit
subscribe so you can catch the next bonus episode
of Legends of Jorvik, which will feature Jason
Buck, a storyteller who was in Jorvik that week
and told some fascinating folklore tales. He
would have liked his event, Katie, so I do recommend
you look him up as well. But there'll be lots
of other content coming, including the usual
Valhalla podcast episodes. So keep an eye out
for that. Thank you very much for listening and
watching. Thank you very much, Katie. Thank you
for having me. This has been amazing. You're
very welcome.