Welcome everyone to this special bonus episode
of Valhalla Conversations podcast titled Legends
of Jorvik. Now there are many tales of Jorvik,
but this is more particular to the modern era,
because I am an annual pilgrim to the annual
Viking festival held in Jorvik, run by the Jorvik
Viking Museum and the Jorvik Archaeological Trust,
and every year they have a great set of acts,
academics, historians, authors, performers, storytellers,
drama shows, you name it, they've had it on and
it's all to do with history or mythology or both
and I've decided you know what, I like them all
so why don't I get them on and talk to them about
their work and how they creatively use history,
mythology and more to make wonderful pieces for
audiences to engage with and I'm delighted in
this debut episode of a mini series that I'm
working on to welcome two of the three members
of Old York Theatre, Charlie and Ollie. Welcome
gentlemen. Thank you, thank you for having us.
Hi, yeah, thank you for having us. Now, I'm going
to say Old York Theatre is a very new theatre
company of sorts on the block, is it not, Charlie?
Yeah, very new. Yeah, not like its name, it's
not old. It is a very new theatre company and
this was our first show, yeah. Yes, now these
guys, if you're wondering, audience and listeners
and viewers, or whatever platform you may be
listening or watching, they performed a debut
play called Jorvik. kind of aptly at Yorby Viking
Festival and I was one of the first audience
group to participate in some way or at least
immerse myself in it because it is a play that
doesn't have a stage. it is an immersive play,
you are literally not just an audience watching,
you're participating, you're witnessing, you're
experiencing it all and I definitely experienced
it and I absolutely loved it and I ranted and
raved at these guys afterwards because I loved
it so much and I haven't scared them off, that's
why they're here, but they might not come back
here after tonight so we shall see. I would like
you, Charlie, then, because I know you were the
matter behind the wonderful script. Would you
explain to our audience and listeners what Jorvik's
play is and what it's about? OK, so Jorvik is
set exactly at the moment of the fall of Efuik
and the rebirth as Jorvik, which in history is
a major moment. And throughout history, cities
go through these changes. as we've seen all over
the country and the world. And this moment, even
though it's about this moment, really, it's about
humans, it's about human connection, it's about
legacy, the one to be remembered. Like, instead
of now using TikTok and Instagram to get fame,
the Vikings use Tigers. So we're really we're
not that far away from our ancestors as we think
we are. And Yorvik is an exploration of that.
But meanwhile, bringing a new style of theatre
to the north, something a bit different. immersive
so like every audience member plays as big as
well as me and Ollie and genuinely without the
audience there is no show. All the theatres you
can get away with being no audience that you
can't see them it's like it's dark but in our
show it lives and it dies by the people who turn
up in the room that evening so yeah it's a really
fun new exploration of something different and
people seem to really enjoy it which was lovely.
It was a real treat. an experience. It was so
massively done. I wish it could be recorded and
shared with the world or that it could just be
put on weekly so people can just always go get
a dose of Vikingness because it started off pretty
strongly with you, Ollie, because you play, should
I spoil it? I'm going to spoil it because I don't
know what you guys are next showing it, but you
play the character of Odin, am I correct? Yes,
you are. I suppose to some extent there's an
element of interpretation, but certainly in our
headcanon, I play Odin. I'm Odin in the script,
and one of the things that I deliver to an audience
member that has a bit of script for them to read
is labeled Odin's fave. So yeah, I'm pretty much
Odin, but I think there's like a little bit of
room for interpretation there as well. You might
think he's lucky, maybe. yeah people might think
he's Loki. Now that is one line that really made
me chuckle especially because of course you Charlie
you're not just the writer you also acted out
yourself because you play the role of Ubba one
of the legendary sons of Ragnar Lothbrok that
came over and caused havoc and did leave them
up especially in York and England in history
and it's a wonderful if not beautifully majestic
debate almost between Odin although uber may
not name him as odin but he certainly appears
as a scale the storyteller and this storyteller
keeps opening up the conversation to of course
the issue as you mentioned of legacy and remembrance
and that's beautifully paired not just with the
human experience of these warriors wanting to
live forever and dying off to fell ha which every
good norseman seems to stereotypically want um
but of course odin as a as a god of a forgotten
pantheon of limited worship these days, I mean
there are still some that do follow the old ways
to some variance degree out there, but I thought
that was a beautiful reflection, especially an
explanation of Odin's character, because of course
people know him as a god of war, a god of glory,
god of prophecy to some degree, but he's also
a god of knowledge and fate because he's always
trying to outrun if not out prepare, Ragnarok
in a way which is why he wants all these warriors.
And I think that was a really good mirror representation
you did Charlie with the script for these two
characters. Especially because not many people
think of Ugo. I mean I think of Ugo and I think
of just the guy from The Last Kingdom which I
actually have to meet. He was, he was a mate,
he's as tall as he is on the screen. I felt even
smaller. Of course there's Aivar, and there was,
the third name is going to elude me now, there
was Ivar, Uba and I want to say Sven, but it's
not Sven. I'm sure someone will come in to correct
me. I don't want to put a name out there because
it's wrong. I know Uba and Ivar were there, so
we'll go on. There was a conversation during
rehearsals where there was an earlier version
of the script where we mentioned lots of Ragnar's
children by name and then during the course of
like researching the show, we realized that there's
a great amount of debate as to how many of them
are authentic children. And so we were just like,
you know what, let's just stick with Uber and
Ivar because we know those ones are pretty solid.
My brains just said half -dan, but I could be
wrong on half -dan as well. But anyway, there
are supposedly at least three brothers. We know
that much. Certainly from The Launching of the
Last Kingdom, I know there were three. But again,
that's kind of an open interpretation. So I'm
going to suggest a question kind of like, how
did this all begin then? OK. So it really began
while I was still at drama school. to my final
project, I wrote a play about Sigurd, who was
supposedly the son of Ragnar as well, but that
is still up for debate. But in the interpretation
of the film that I did, Sigurd was the son of
Ragnar. And it was about legacy, and I picked
Sigurd because he's briefly mentioned in history,
about as Ragnar's sons, and then he's forgotten
about. So I did a film about Sigurd, and that
got shown at the Viking Festival. Really? Oh,
wow. That was two years ago. I must have missed
it that year. I haven't been to the Viking Festival
in person for a number of years simply because
Canterbury Nine Trains couldn't get their act
together for a long time. Now they have. I'm
a bit more mobile. So I'm gutted I've missed
out on that. When I was there, I realised it
would be great if there was a theatre show here.
And there wasn't. So I simply emailed the Orvik.
I was like, well, actually, no, I wrote a script
in an hour. Ollie loves his story. I'm not a
trained playwright. Playwriting literally just
comes from, like, how I write it just comes from
my head. So I just logged in, wrote a play, as
you do. And then I sent that to the Orvik and
was like, any chance I could put this on? And
they were like, yeah. And I went... Okay. Because
I've always been an actor, trained as an actor,
professional as an actor, but never producing,
never writing or directing. So I brought on some
experienced heads, like Ollie and Jack, who are
just, yeah, they know the industry well, and
they're great people. And I was like, help me
make this real. Because I've signed a contract
to put it on. Yeah, and then we went from there
really, then Ollie came on board and I let Ollie
take over the story. Well, yeah, as Charlie says,
he sent me the script and said, I hope you'll
be on board because I've already signed the contract.
I was like, well, as your friend, I haven't really
got much of a choice now, have I? No, no, I read
the script and I thought it was incredible. I
think, you know, you've seen the show. I think
some of the poetic writing in there is phenomenal.
And, you know, I sort of fell in love with the
script straight away. I actually read through
it and then highlighted two lines right near
the end of the script and Charlie will be able
to tell you what those lines are. I can't remember
off the top of my head but they're his lines
anyway so it's fine. Why must we wait until we
are over another world to hear this praise? Why
must it come when we are gone? Yeah, I think
it's those two lines. Yeah, it was those two.
I read those two and like, I felt like a, you
know, like almost like a hit to the heart. And
I thought that's the message of the show. You
know, like why... Why do we wait? Why do we wait
for our to be gone before we celebrate our legacies,
right? Like we should be celebrating those people
that we love around us all the time because there's
only we only have one one go around, you know
what I mean? So that for me, that really spoke
volume. So I highlighted that and I sent him
back the script and I said, yes, I'll do it.
And this is this is this is it. This is the show.
That's brilliant. It was lovely. And and then,
yeah, we We got Jack on board not too long after.
We sort of reached out to him. I've worked with
Jack before on different projects. He's a very
accomplished producer, theatre maker, actor himself.
He's done a lot of amazing work with VR and stuff
like that. He's a really talented guy. And I
said to Charlie straight away, I was like, if
we want someone who really knows their stuff
inside out backwards, this is the guy we want.
Um, so we had a meeting he read the script got
back to us and said, yeah, I love it i'm on board
so we've worked kind of like um in a in a We
worked with jack quite significantly for a while
and then in a slightly less, um intense capacity
more recently, but um, he's still always on board
to sort of help us out and And and step in and
he's our all father, isn't he? He watches Yeah,
we need like we need some help. Yeah. Yeah Is
it because of the way you highlighted those particular
words, Ollie, that maybe you were thinking you'd
have the role of other in the end of production?
Or did you always want Odin? No, I knew Charlie
was from the get -go. I think I'm more suited
to Odin and I always kind of felt like I was.
And I made the mistake of... of suggesting to
Charlie at one point that I needed more lines.
I was like, mate, I already had so much to learn.
And then I was like, mate, you've said like,
oh, you know, you're such a wordsmith is like
the next line. But what Odin had said before
that was something very simple. And I was like,
you've set this up perfectly for a monologue
here. And he was like, you know, that would have
to be you. Yeah Well, I must admit I after once
it kind of really dawned on me how much she both
had to remember and the same cues I mean I can
still remember kind of like the intro of you
Ollie thinking of like welcome Harold Bluetooth
and of course I was looking at the door thinking
someone's gonna come through and no one does
and then you pull the little joke slash stunt
with the Bluetooth speaker, which I thought was
really really clever. I quite like not just the
way completely broke the fourth wall that there
was no fourth wall we were all in that moment
in that room in that scene is not just being
an indirect passive observer but kind of like
you doubly break the fourth one that you kind
of you acknowledge that oh yes um we're speaking
in the past but really i know you guys are all
from the present and here's what you've been
doing with the legacy of mr bluetooth here and
I still like the line that the bluetooth speaker
appears to say at the end, it really made me
chuckle. And of course you do give one of the
audience members or kind of like the immersive
audience a script and another one a script and
have them do a little bit of acting. I'm curious,
is the script that they get the same for every
time you've done the show or have you done a
different one? per show because you've done a
little bit of a tour with Jorvik so I know we've
not just seen it in York it's been to Hull and
I want to say Liverpool but I could be wrong
Manchester that was the one I knew it was somewhere
past where I am from which is Huddersfield so
you've kind of like you've been one way and then
passed me the other way yes so the script we
gave out is the same every show but it's always
the interaction is always so different Yeah.
Which is really lovely. The venue and the audience
inform the show massively. No two shows are generally
the same, which is really nice as a performer.
It's nice not to get stuck in that, like, trap
of, right, we do the show, we know, we go through
it. You end up going on autopilot. Even the best
actors in the world, you can't help but go on
autopilot. But with this, every show is alive
and every show is different. And we did four
different venues in four days, very contrasted
venues. So we didn't have rehearsals in the venues.
We only had rehearsals. Valley Hall was the only
place we got a rehearsal. Wow. Just because of
time and money and resources. So the first time
I was doing it in that venue for the show was
the first time we were doing it in that venue.
So like we're figuring out as we're going along,
like in Manchester in a cabaret bar. So we've
gone from Bali Hall to Cabaret Bar, it was totally
different and it's like using that space to inform
the show. So yeah, the script's a bit of a shame,
but everyone brought their own different unique
story to it, which is what I love about the format.
That's the great thing about a show like that
is that we sort of... We set up the audience
essentially and go like, here you go, here's
the baseline of what we've got here. We've got
all the bits we've planned, but really this show
is what you make of it. An audience that's super
involved and super engaged and it's like joining
in and pitching in ideas and stuff like that.
They're going to get a great deal out and obviously
it's on us to like... draw the audience in early
doors. And that goes back to the Bluetooth speaker
thing. There's a few different moments at the
beginning of the show, like the Bluetooth speaker
or what happens just after the fight, where we
sort of break the fourth wall again and make
a kind of joke of it. And all of those are there
very deliberately to kind of set the audience
expectation, to set that contract between us
and the audience and say, look, You know, this
isn't gonna be you're not gonna have to sit there
quietly this whole time and just watch two actors
go at it You know, we're we're here to sort of
bring you in and engage with you and and the
more response you give us the more we've got
to play off and And and it makes this show better
and and more like Charlie says more alive You
can't switch off. No you can't switch off which
is nice it's nice you know like we surprise each
other as well sometimes yeah sometimes yeah i
surprise charlie in manchester yeah oh i want
to know more about that tell me more uh i just
i i i don't even know why i just forgot one of
my lines uh thankfully it was when charlie was
on stage so we're just staring at each other
for like About 15 seconds. I'm waiting for him
to speak. He's waiting for me to speak and then
I realized like oh I think actually this is one
of mine. So we're just like really intensely
looking at each other and I just go oh It's me
in it And the whole audience laughs and I think
because we've established that contract that
like we are gonna step out and we are gonna ignore
or at least Odin is pretty separate. I'm in the
wild. Because he's been brought into Odin's space.
Odin's in control. Odin can talk to the audience
in the future and in the past. He can control
that realm. Uber is very set where he is and
he's being taken along for the ride almost more
than the audience is. The audience is more in
on it than he is, I think. Certainly by the end.
And what I love about that was I had so many
people coming up to me after. In any other show,
someone forgets a line, always. Yeah, it's not
good. But in this show, it's beautiful and I
love it. People are coming up and saying, how
did you write that in? That was really cool.
That was so well rehearsed that bit. I was like,
yeah, it was. But what I love about that is it's
the realness and the rawness. And it's what I
want to bring to theatre. Like, there is no hierarchy,
performer, audience. We're just two blokes who
are just in the costume telling a story. But
we're all in the room together. And that's what's
magic about it. It's the magic that it's real,
it's raw. And that's why we want to take it to
unconventional spaces do something a bit different
and really like break that barrier of theatre
and like what people expect a theatre experience
is because it's not for everyone and it is elitist
like it's expensive it's all these things that
it really shouldn't be and really is for the
people and we hope to keep doing that and in
our raw honest approach yeah I think that's another
thing that if you think about like the format
of theatre and you know There's so much on TV
now, there's so many movies, you know, it's all
accessible via streaming. And the thing that
theater really still has to offer is that, is
the fact that you're there in person with it.
And like a lot of theater, when you're just sat
in an auditorium looking up at a stage, I mean,
yes, they are there in front of you, but for
all intents and purposes, it could just be a
screen. Do you know what I mean? But with this,
like I can come on lean on. lean on an audience
member's shoulder and chat to them and like carry
on with the scene and you can't you know that's
the this is the only medium where you can do
that really yeah so i think the fact that we
it was really important to us that we were using
every you know, like every option available to
us to kind of make this immersive and make this
something special and unique that people would
go home and be like, Oh my gosh, we saw this
thing and it was like amazing. And they were
talking to us and like, you know, they came over
and patted me on the shoulder and gave me a fist
bump and like shouted in my face. And like, you
know, we want it to be sort of unique and special
and, and yeah, truly like immersive. And then
make it that massive accessible as well. Cause
not everyone, not everyone is confident. or wants
to be picked on or spoke to. So one thing that
we really made an effort was, even the people,
like my mum, for example, she's the shyest person,
she has a general phobia of being on the stage.
So it's like, how do we get people like that
to come see the show and enjoy it? So we made
a real effort of just, even just a simple bit
of an eye contact, just to like a bench mile,
just to like, but we hopefully, and I think we
found that balance across the top. We found the
people who wanted to, Take that next step and
we found the people who wanted to just enjoy
and be there and still have those moments So
it's how does everyone leave with an equal experience
like an equal satisfaction from the show, but
with a different involvement level So, but I
think we found that yeah There's there's little
tips and tricks you can do to make sure that
you you know that you you aren't picking on anyone
that isn't gonna want to be involved and then
You know the feedback that we've got I think
really reinforced that which was really lovely
a lot of feedback We got was people saying oh,
you know I felt like comfortable like I was made
to feel comfortable and then I really did want
to get involved or you know I was glad I didn't
get chosen and all that kind of stuff. So that
was really nice I was really impressed with the
kind of like gradual way you introduced ways
the audience could get involved from the kind
of like the chanting and banging of the chest
ollie to kind of like raising the toast and scale
and then of course I remember when Shelley joined
the performance and then sitting next to the
guy on the bench opposite because I was at the
barely hole performance and I was on the back
row I managed to squeeze at the end as on my
own son because my husband doesn't do biking
things plus I have a kid so he does stay with
the kids so he's fine he was fine I was happy
so it was all good but one of the two American
ladies I sat with we're talking before the show
started goes I hope I don't get picked to do
anything and she did she get picked to row with
other and one of her friends just sat there videoing
the whole thing it's like and she actually enjoyed
it, and I thought, well, that's the quirk. But
I suppose, did you ever find when you were doing
kind of like will you row with other, will you
row with other, did anyone ever say no? Or has
everyone said yes so far? Someone very sneakily
put their partner, they went, oh, they were talking
to you. It was good, it was clever. Which I had
to respect, that was very good. They were like,
oh yeah, he was definitely talking to you. And
then their partner kind of begrudgingly got up.
But that was the only one, no, nobody else said
no. Everybody else seemed, you know, well up
for it at that point. I think it comes in a good
point in the show where you know that we're not
going to ask you to do anything like, you know,
really, really awkward. Not going to embarrass
you or anything like that, yeah. We try to always
make sure that like, We're the butt of the joke,
if there is one. You know what I mean? That all
the show is, you know, and rather than like the
people. I'm guessing if you wrote the overall
script, Charlie, then you must have written the
script that the two nominated members of the
audience got given. Is that correct? Yeah, I
did. There's a story behind that as well. Oh,
please tell, please tell. Ollie is your story
man, you love it. Alright, so we were working
in rehearsals and at this point the play was,
I think, 47 or 48 pages long. Um, which is for
a show that is aiming to be about You know 45
minutes to an hour Probably slightly too long
Only a bit. So I said to charlie, um, you know,
we got we're getting done with the first week
of rehearsals We were going to go away over the
weekend. I said just while you're away over the
weekend Just maybe think about you know any cuts
that you might want to make Um, you know if there's
any if there's any bits you can trim out. Let's
do that Uh, he was like, yeah. Yeah. Sure comes
back on monday The script is five pages longer
I'm like what's happened here Charlie. He's like
I've written this scene that I want the audience
to like do to each other I was like, okay, we
read it through and it was It was the scene that
we ended up with but it was four extra pages
and it was about pig farmers instead of rooster
farmers. And the whole thing was just, I was
just like, this is so long and so unnecessary.
I don't know where my mind went. Yeah, it was
long. It was really long. But that's the beauty
of her. So I was like, the script, I said, I'm
writing an hour. That's not what you saw. It
was what was written an hour. The base was written
an hour. Yeah. And it was wonderful how like,
Throughout that we only had two weeks to rehearse
and just me and all and then and it wasn't even
really two weeks No, cuz I was in I had to go
to London twice for a different project during
the rehearsals and yeah I'm feeling very well
as well. Yeah Charlie was really lazy You've
got 80 % of the lines anyway, it's fine But yeah,
the script changed so much in those two weeks.
But yeah, it was wonderful to see that and how
it developed. And like I said earlier about who
was going to play who, I did write it with Ollie
and Odin. I knew before Ollie knew that Ollie
was playing Odin. So yeah, it was that voice.
And then when Ollie actually was reading it out
loud, I was like, right, OK. and the story changed
and our dynamic came into it more. But yeah,
it's just a wonderful experience in general,
really. The script and how it changes, it's beautiful
to watch. Well, we can, as an audience member,
we can tell there is a definite connection between
you two, both in and out of character, and that
just helps the whole magic of it feel even stronger.
It was really, really, I just still applaud you
both. I do, because it was just awesome. Absolutely
awesome. Thank you. So I guess another question
I had in mind was have either of you been to
the Yorby Viking Festival before then, assuming
this is where you chose to debut it? So I went
to watch my film. That sounds like such a big
ending. I went to watch my own film. Such an
act to answer that. Was that the red carpet?
Yeah, I went to watch my film. But I, so I grew,
so I was born like in a village called like Londbrecht,
which is just south of the York. And my grandma
still lives there today. We moved to Hull, me
and my mum and dad, when I was like four or five.
So I've always like, like had York and Hull as
home cities. So I hadn't been to the festival,
but I grew up going to the Yorvik every weekend.
And I grew up sitting in the pubs with my grandparents,
learning about the history, walking the walls.
and I realised what inspired me like as a kid
I was like I used to be like who's in here before
I was like I always used to think like who's
walked who's done that who's done that so I've
really been to the festival but Yorvik in York
and the idea of the Vikings has influenced my
life from from being a very young age um probably
why I have long blonde hair and half a beard
Because he's not as good as Ollie, so he reminds
me all the time that it's not as good as his.
But yeah, so I haven't been to the festival,
but the Yorvik as a centre and as an institution
and the history of that has always had an influence
on me. How about you, Ollie? So I believe I've
been to the Viking festival when I was a child,
so I actually grew up in Wales and I but my my
family's roots are all in Yorkshire or at least
my mum's side so I used to come to Yorkshire
a lot as a child and went to the Yorvik Viking
Center and you know came away with wooden swords
and you know so I believe that I've been there
as a kid but then obviously lived in Wales for
most of my sort of uh for most of my child and
teenage life and then I moved to Hull um when
I was like 20 um and then haven't haven't really
been to York much since then I don't don't know
why uh just I got to Hull and stopped um but
no so I've I've been a lot um when I was younger
but not recently. So to be honest with you, it
was completely out of my sort of consciousness
until Charlie brought the show to me and I was
like, one, this is a brilliant show and two,
like, Jorvik Viking Festival. That sounds fun.
So yeah, so I'm a bit of a newbie to it other
than, you know, child me. But yeah, it was very
exciting. being able to go there because like
obviously we did a lot of research on the festival
during the build -up because we wanted to kind
of anytime we were you know talking about it
we want to accurately represent it and and be
a good advocate an advocate or you know we're
not we're not an ambassador for the that they
have their own people to do that but like we
didn't you know we wanted to be We wanted to
be respectful of the history and everything that's
come with it. And they've been great. We had
such a wonderful time working with them. They're
such a lovely team. Like on and off site, do
you know what I mean? They just couldn't do enough
for you. And they were lovely to us when we arrived.
And yeah, it's just been great. Well, I think
Barley Hall was a beautiful thing for your debut
performance. Equally, I'm still glad that you
found other venues for it, especially kind of
like giving you the dynamic of other spaces you
could sit, child Charlie, when you decide to
grace it with your presence kind of thing. Well,
we know obviously you've had a very long childhood
passion or an interest in the history of York,
Charlie. But Ollie, have you ever had an interest
in Viking Age history or even the mythology?
Or is this all just coming new to you now through
the play? So I would say so. Yeah, I always liked
history in general. You know, when I chose subjects
at school, history was one of them because I
just always found it interesting. I've always
been a firm believer that we can learn a lot
about where we are and where we're going from
where we've been. And I think looking at history
can inform a lot about like, you know, what we
can do as individuals Going forward to kind of
like uh curate our best sort of existence. Um,
and and off the back of that, you know, there's
a lot of um, there's a lot of like viking, uh
Associated media that I really love, you know,
I watched last kingdom and I watched some of
vikings i've always enjoyed like the um The god
of war games which starting they start in ancient
Greece, but then they become Yes, um, like the
more recent ones have been like norse themes
and those are really really exciting um, you
know, I I know a lot about the you know, the
I say I know a lot, you know, I I've enjoyed
uh viking in a bunch of different Things I wouldn't
say that I particularly know a lot about the
about specifically the history of it but again,
I know the history is like kind of shaky anyway,
because you know, there was not a As far as I'm
aware, there's no like actual written like prime
resources of Viking history. So it's kind of
like it's hard to have any kind of like inclusive
information, but I love the kind of mythology
of it. And that was really important. That was
a really important conversation that we had during
the kind of the creation of the show was like
what we didn't want to do was sell it as something
that's like super historically accurate. There's
one that's impossible and two like it you know
the whole point really is the mythology and the
mythos and the storytelling and the excitement
and like if a story doesn't get embellished throughout
its life cycle and if it doesn't get like you
know made larger than life and grandiose and
all that stuff then it you know i think it it
sort of dies as a story so um i think like that
was something that was really important to us
we wanted to make it really clear that this show
was like not trying to be historically accurate
it was trying to be mythology, it was trying
to be storytelling, it was trying to be larger
than life. I really respect that and I think
the storytelling is I think almost like the heart
of the magic of it all because that's all the
North people had were stories, they were not
illiterate writing people, yes they had people's
carved rune stones but that was usually a memorial
to someone. Again, that, I guess, strikes the
issue of the theme of legacy, really, that they
carve a runestone in memoriam to anyone. But
that, for me, is what also drew me into this
whole crazy podcast and everything else in between.
Because I literally devour, like you, anything
Nordic, whether it's games, TV or film. I have
not been able to play the God of War games last,
because I'm not a PS4 owner. I only have a humble
xbox one that is definitely aging because no
more games coming out for it alas But anyway,
um, but yes, it's the mythology which got me
because they seem so human so so flawed They
just happen to have lifelonging fruit, which
echoes the message of eat five a day and you
live longer kind of thing, um, I really like
the storytelling aspect. This is why I really
was in awe of the fact that he picked Odin of
all the gods you could pick to have a conversation
with him in. It would have been a different play
if it was Loki, totally. But Odin is famous for
his storytelling aspects and I think I was mentioning
just before we hit the record button on this
wonderful episode. I got to see the finale which
was about the cursed sword Tiefing which is a
very long historical saga of a famed cursed sword.
Again it's more fictional than historical but
Odin makes an appearance in that as a master
of riddles and tries to trick a king out of killing
a particular person because he'd done something
wrong. The king then tries to strike Odin down
and he gets cursed by Odin for daring to do so.
But yes Odin is a wanderer and a storyteller
and It's a really good character choice. I mean,
I guess another question is like, Charlie, well,
and Ollie, if you had the option of making this
a longer play, would you? Or do you think it's
of its moment in its current form? I think the
show has room to develop, definitely. But what
I love about the essence of this show is It's
two people in a room telling a story with loads
of other people who are there to be a part of
it. So I think there is room to get longer, definitely.
But this is like bigger picture questions. So
we have Jorvik, but there could be other shows
on the horizon. Jorvik has just been born, but
who knows what else will happen. There is conversations
about other shows, other things going on. a wider
circle than just me and Ollie bringing some other
people into Old York who are very experienced,
very knowledgeable. So yeah, there is the stuff
in the horizon. But as far as this show goes,
what I love about this show, what makes the show
special for me is being able to do it within
the hour. And people can come have a drink, come
to the show. then go downstairs have a few more
drinks and have a great time alcoholic or non
-alcoholic i don't really drink so i don't really
drink either that's why unfortunately i was the
only one there like cheering you on without an
actual glass so if there's a particular meaning
in the photo there's a fictional glass there
we wanted to make it like we want to make it
a show where people come to have fun so i feel
like that hour like 50 minutes an hour is a sweet
spot where people enjoy the experience and go
but is there going to be other shows that are
longer We'll see what the fates have in store.
There's always a sweet spot with theatre shows,
especially something where your audience is a
little bit captive. People can get up and go
at any time. I can't remember if it was the show
you were at or the one... before were you the
i wasn't the first one i don't think anyone left
that one someone got up to go and get an extra
Thing of me which we like made a little joke
about as they got up and went and like So that
you know, that's that's nice that we can kind
of have that but I think if it was too much longer
You know if it's in like a pub venue, you might
get people needing to get up and go to the toilet
That's when you when you hit that kind of length
it starts to People's attention spans start to
go a little bit as well. I think at the length
it's at now. It's pretty good I think we could
maybe squeeze another five minutes in But I think
like at the moment we're sort of telling the
story we want to tell you know I think like there's
a we both had objectives for what we wanted the
audience to leave thinking We sort of had individual
ones, but sort of a joint one as well Charlie
yours was Mine was, I wanted someone to leave
there with a smile on the face and to go, oh,
I should text my mum and tell her I love her.
That's what I wanted people to like. Text a family
member, text a loved one and be like, just let
you know, I love you, have a great night. That's
what I wanted people to leave with that action
in mind. That absolutely rings true for the theme
and especially with the lines that you quoted.
Quite eloquently earlier on about kind of like
why do we have to wait so long? To hear such
praise. Yeah No, no, yeah, and for me it was
um for me it was I wanted people to leave um
I wanted people to leave thinking like either
i'm so glad I got involved with that Or I wish
i'd got involved a little bit more. Do you know
what I mean? I like I wanted people to think
like You know, we we only get one go around like
I want to grasp every opportunity. You know what
I mean? That's what I really wanted people to
leave with. And I think the way that the script
is currently and the way the show is currently,
I think we get there for both of those objectives.
And I think adding too much more or doing too
much messing with it, we run the risk of losing
the soul of that. So yeah, I like it as it...
Is I think we could get a little bit more. I
think we could squeeze a few more audience interactions
in I think actually we could lose some time from
it Well, it certainly it didn't match in a very
good way any of the things i'm expecting because
i honestly wasn't expecting because the blurb
for the event was quite brief and quite vague
just about immersive theater and be part of the
show and i'm like is it going to be anything
like cluedo i've never played cluedo but i know
you kind of get assigned a character and you
say so and so did this with a weapon and so and
so room i thought is it like that do we just
all get handed a script so i thought it was kind
of liberating to say okay can we can just sit
here and just watch and then see what happens
and that that kind of anticipation really built
up the atmosphere and of course having alcohol
I'm sure would help a lot of people with their
confidence and they find their voice. Because
I remember in the show that I was in, the very
first one, it was the it was the point where
both Obert and Edward were very much in each
other's face. I think this is building up to
the lungs there and there was a woman sat next
to you and she said something I couldn't actually
hear from where I was but it just set the whole
room laughing so I just kind of like laughed
along because I didn't know what we were laughing
at but I can't remember if you can remember what
she said yeah we were we were very close to her
so for the context for for anyone listening or
watching There's a very, you know, the show goes
on sort of peaks and troughs, you know, some
of the time we're getting on very well, some
of the time we're having a laugh, but sometimes,
you know, the tensions between the characters
ramp up. Odin wants something very specific from
Uber, Uber wants something very specific from
Odin and they're not quite seeing eye to eye.
And ironically, they get up in each other's faces
and look eye to eye. And we just had this big
monologue, big argument. We get right close in
each other's faces. And this audience member,
who was wonderful, by the way, and was really
lovely. She gave some lovely words after the
show as well. She said, now kiss. That was it.
That makes a lot of sense. But it was great,
because it meant that we could just break character,
as we've already been doing throughout the show,
and just both simultaneously. And then her partner
said, I think you meant to say that in your head,
and you said it out loud. And she went, oh! That's
what I looked about the form of the show like.
That for us, we were talking about this earlier
actually, that is like, that for us, that means
we've done our job. As an audience member, you
feel so comfortable. You can now speak, because
in a theatre, no one's going to do that. So we
brought this, our aim has been achieved, we brought
this down to earth so much. This story of Grand
Vikings, and it's been brought to humanise so
much, people feel like they can talk in it. And
that's brilliant. We love that. lot of shows
been like oh no no no but like for us that's
a massive like check out we've done our job right
which is wonderful yeah and it gives it gives
every audience like something special You know,
like if you go to see and you know, I'm not knocking
these at all But if you go to see like a West
End show like whatever generally speaking You're
gonna get exactly the same experience as the
people who watched it before you and the people
who are gonna watch it after you It's never gonna
be you know, there might be slight variations
the cast might change slightly but like for the
most part You're gonna get exactly the same show
but in this like every audience is gonna get
something unique because what they give in they're
gonna they're going to get back, you know, like
twofold. So that experience, I mean for her specifically,
is going to be entirely unique because she's
going to remember, oh my gosh, remember that
time that I said that thing to those two Vikings,
but also like everyone in that room is going
to have, remember that time when that person
said that thing to those two Vikings and then
they like acknowledged it and then, you know,
and every single show that we did had something
like that. in it where there was an interaction
or there was something where um and it was it
was you know it's beautiful um it's really it's
really beautiful to watch people engage with
it uh so honestly and so openly and so generously
as well um and it's oh yeah like charlie said
i think when when somebody feels that comfortable
to to get involved like that it's it's really
um it means a lot to us because it means like
he says we've we've done our job because I can
still remember when the script came out and you
picked the other lady that was on my long bench
and I think her name was Linda but she said like
you asked her like where do you hail from? She
goes from the darkness. Yeah yeah yeah I was
like brilliant I couldn't write that. Yeah, that
was amazing. I felt bad having to be late. She
was really getting into it. She was all from
home, absolutely. I thought if my mum was here,
she would have probably done the same thing.
So I guess, if there are plans afoot at Old York
Theatre, do any of them still possibly remotely
touch on more Viking -ness, or are you going
to diversify into other topics, other settings,
stories? I'm not trying to twist your leg or
anything. There's definitely more Viking tales
to be told. There's definitely more and there
is a lot of other history to explore. We're not
even too much away. I think there's definitely
more Viking tales and there's definitely other
periods and moments of history like in York and
Yorkshire as a rider region where I feel like
there is There's more stories to be told, but
more stories to be told from history that talk
to us now. There's a lot. We're also not, I don't
think, remotely done with this show yet. The
feedback we've had has been sort of unprecedented
for a first run of a show. I certainly it's like
no show I've ever worked on and I've been doing
this for a long time Alright But yes, but yeah
and you know and I've worked on some amazing
shows before but like none that have had Such
a forthcoming audience in terms of like beautiful
lovely feedback so much excitement. We've had
people going like right How can we make this
show, you know, how can we get this show to Edinburgh?
How can we do and like they're not even remotely
involved with the show, but they're just they
just want it Yeah, and so this you know, I really
believe that The messages of this show, the idea
of legacy, the idea of celebrating our loved
ones and our lives while we're still around to
do so, I think is such a universally relevant
topic. I think it's something that... That people
should see, you know, the length and breadth
of the country I think like, you know, there's
there's still legs for this show to to really
go on and speak to people um, and so i'm i'm
very much considering what we've done so far
as Opening the door and maybe yeah, we've got
a lot of room to fill yet. Um, but yes, uh more
more viking stuff for sure as well. Uh, I mean
I think it's probably worth saying that there
is some plan for us to do some video content
as well. We're both trained in combat for screen.
And we do have some Viking weaponry that we bought
that we were considering using for the show,
but realized it was going to be... entirely impractical
to swing a sword around in Barley Hall. We do
have some. There might be some video content
that we put out, some screen combat stuff we've
been having discussions about, which isn't giving
too much away. I'm going to end up like Tom Holland
on... You know giving away MCU secrets Sorry
There's no Marvel breathing down our neck for
this don't worry yet. No, I'm joking But yeah,
there's there's loads more we've got planned
we were in conversation with some really exciting
people as well like so yeah, we're just we just
want to Continue telling great stories as best
we can But Ollie's right, for Jorvik, this is
the birth of Jorvik. And I feel like this show
is something that me and Ollie will grow old
with. And it's a show that I think we could perform
for the next 30, 40 years. And in general, our
relationships with those characters will change
as we experience life more and go into major
life events and stuff. And I feel like, yeah,
it's a show that will grow old with us, I feel.
this is just the beginning of and how I feel
now at 25 playing over when I'm if I'm playing
in when I'm 40 it's a very different relationship
like very different relationship to my character
and to the story and the words of me now how
I don't in 15 years time I will interpret those
words so differently um so yeah it's it's just
the me beginning for sure that is pretty terrible
I am all for a Yorvik world tour kind of thing.
I think everyone should see it. I'm so impressed
that it's taken until now and your wonderful
self, Charlie, for anyone to think, why don't
we just do a play in the setting where most people
go to have a drink? It just makes so much sense
of using the environment that you're in as a
stage instead of having a block set with the
drop and the invisible fourth wall. Interestingly
enough, the talk about the audience engagement
it made me think to the fact that I'm taking
my four -year -old to the theatre to see Room
on the Broom in two weeks and of course... there's
always engagement with children in theatre and
I'm thinking that magic is still perfectly good
for us as adults why should we why should we
sit still in quiet if not boo and hiss and throw
popcorn around and and dance if we want to that
kind of thing that's why I could bring myself
to take my daughter to see Frozen the musical
because I know she'd want to dance and sing all
the songs and that wouldn't be allowed in a Broadway
musical It just wouldn't happen. Thankfully,
it's coming to Disney Plus at some point in the
near future, so she can just dance and watch
it from the living room. But yeah, I'm looking
forward to hearing everything that Old York Theatre
can do in the future. And of course, the orbit
continue to spread its wings on ravens and fly
around the world and bring Odin and Uber to new
audiences. And where can our lovely listeners
and viewers find out about your wonderful creative
plans? Go on, Ollie. You've got a clearer than
me. Go on. I am not the social media guy. Yeah,
I know he runs it, but you can plug it. Oh, gosh.
Right. Wait, how do you? Is it at? Is that right?
At Old York Theatre? Instagram. Yeah, good. That's
why is he put this on me? I'm the most social
media like allergic person on the planet. Yeah,
at Old York Theatre on Instagram. I think that's
probably like the best place. We sort of post
everything through there. So if there's anything
going on, it'll end up on there. We don't have
a website or anything yet. I don't think. There'll
be always the we make video content. There'll
be YouTube. But yeah, Instagram is the best.
I'll put the details again in the blurb that
will complete this video if anyone wants to follow.
I mean, I already follow them and tag them a
lot. It's, I think, bothering Charlie ever since.
No, you're not bothering me at all. That's brilliant.
Thank you. Charlie loves it. In fact, just send
him more stuff all the time. Keep him busy. Let's
get my screen time down though. Well thank you
so much for being part of this new bonus episode
mini -series of The Legends of Jorvik and you've
definitely set a legend and I would be delighted
if you kept coming back to Jorvik Festival every
year to put it on and then I insist that you
stay and enjoy the festival and see the finale
because it's always dramatic and wonderful. whether
it's a whole battle reenactment or like it was
with Time Hotel Theatre that did the finale for
this year and last year. And I'm hoping the viewers
and listeners to have them on the next episode
of Levin to the Yorvik soon. They're, of course,
just busy with their many activities. But I have
got a few other people that we might talk to.
But yes, thank you so much for your time, Charlie
and Ollie. Thank you for having us. Best of luck
to Old York Theatre. May it continue to grow
and success. And may Yorvik forever live, basically.
Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.