Conversations podcast. I'm your host Becky Hill,
otherwise known as Soul Chaser Becky, and I am
a proud Viking geek. I fell in love with the
history, culture and mythology of the Viking
Age and I have been on an endless quest for more
ever since. Join me as I discuss all things North
with those who have been inspired by Viking Age
history and North mythology in their creative
works or those who have studied the sagas and
archaeology and review. how such subjects are
being presented to modern audiences today. If
you like Viking stuff you are welcome in my Valhalla
and I hope you stay for the conversation. Welcome
everyone to Valhalla Conversations, my nerdy
hall where I celebrate and talk about all things
Norse, modern and historical and fantasy and
everything in between. In episode 11, we're finally
entering the double digits. I'm excited to welcome
my latest guest, Joshua Gillingham. Welcome Joshua.
Hello, hello. I'm so glad to be here. Thanks
for having me on. Would you like to introduce
yourself and your many wonderful Nordic works?
I would indeed, yes. So my name is Josh Gillingham.
I'm an author and board game designer. I come
from the northern realm of Canada. And yeah,
I've loved Vikings for probably longer than I
can remember. I do have some family connections
to Norway and Sweden. This sort of got me into
the Norse myths, which led to the Icelandic sagas
and the rest. as they say is history, literal
history, and sometimes mythic history. My projects
mostly focus on Vikings and the Norse myths in
a fantasy setting. So my book series is called
Tentri Saga and it follows the exploits of a
group of young troll hunters led by Torrin Tentris
in the fantastical realm of Noros where they
are tasked with defending the realm. from Trolls,
and if you read the series, all sorts of other
things. It is a lot of fun. Other people's words,
not mine, has very Hobbit -esque vibes. And so
you've got the fantasy realm, but it's not like
Game of Thrones or anything like that. It's much
more sort of Tolkien -esque fantasy, rife with
riddles. So if you love riddles, there's many
riddles featured in each of the books. And the
third book is actually set to come out soon.
So I promise I will not pull a Patrick Rothfuss
on you. You will get the third installment of
the series. It will be finished. And I will not
leave you waiting forever. I'm also the designer
of All Thinking One Will Rise, which is a card
game set in historical Iceland around the height
of the Viking Age. Every player takes on the
role of a chieftain, and you get to experience
what it's like to step into that role and vie
for power and influence amid a group of ruffian
and cunning warrior Vikings. And so those were
kind of my two main projects. I've had a few...
side projects associated with those, including
an expansion to the Althing and One Will Rise
card game, and a really exciting anthology, which
was an exploration of the characters in the game's
backstory, as imagined by a bunch of authors
that we invited, most established in the historical
fiction realm, which was really fun for me because
I got to edit the book. And another thing that
was birthed out of that project was one of the
short stories known as Waverunners written by
Caitlin Felix was actually then green -lighted
to become a full novelization, which is also
coming out this year and will be absolutely fantastic.
I can guarantee you that because I also edited
that book. And so I got a sneak peek at the full
range and Katie has just created this incredible
story. Yeah, I get all sorts of behind the curtain
peaks of things, but that's mostly me. So I write
books, I design games. And they're mostly about
Vikings. Well, you are definitely welcome in
my humble little hall. And I am pleased to say,
dear viewers and listeners, I have all his books,
both the game and the expansion pack. I've played
it with my nerdy friends when we go to Comic
Con. I have read his Gatewatch duo yet to join
the... have their third one join. And of course,
Old Thingy, The Crescent and the Northern Star,
it's a wonderful collection of short stories
depicting the many ways that the Norse might
have met people of the Middle East and further.
And of course, there's another book that I'm
not sure if actually you might have skipped over,
which was Old Norse for Modern Times, which he
edited with the wonderful Mr. Vikingverse himself,
aka Ian Stewart Sharp, who we also have a connection
with because both me and Josh have been on Mr.
Stewart Sharp's Vikings and Valkyries real play
TTRPG game based on his own TTRPG source book
which Ian Stewart wrote. I think kind of like
if you're his protege from the amount of stuff
that he's written compared to what you've written
and edited as well. So yes, they're all wonderful.
And I do highly recommend everyone go buy them,
download them, play with them. Of course, the
kind of games, really. That kind of books, you
read books, but kind of games, of course. So
I guess the first question that I ask a lot of
my guests is, can you recall when or what first
drew you into Viking culture, history, mythology,
and all its various aspects. Yeah, so I can point
to a time. It was first year university. I was
in that year of exploring myself and figuring
out my identity and who am I in this world. The
track that's been set out for me in grade school
has come to its end and it was time for me to
launch. And one of the questions I had was around
family heritage. I just got suddenly this urge
to dive into family history that I'd never really
had before. And that's where my parents were
particularly interested in genealogy. There's
always some family member who's obsessed with
it and has stacks and stacks of stuff. And so
I became that person and sort of dove into things
and one of the strongest family connections we
have is to Norway. And so my great grandma was
from Norway, spoke Norwegian, and then moved
to Northern Alberta to a town called Valhalla,
which I was born very close to. And then nearby
a town called Beaver Lodge. So Beaver Lodge,
the most Canadian sounding name of all time,
and nearby is the farm where they grew up in
Valhalla Community Center. So the Scandinavian
roots took me to the fourth floor of the university
library, where I was at, to a dusty, apparently
unused section of translated Scandinavian texts,
which I literally had to like wipe a layer of
dust off of. And I came across things like the
Icelandic sagas, and I came across things like
Kevin Crossley Holland's translation of the Norse
myths. And yeah, these just really got me amped.
They drew me in. People always ask me why. And
I don't know if I have a answer. to that. It's
a little bit like the physical mystery of gravity.
It's like we feel its effects, but the physicists
still struggle to explain what it is exactly,
right? But yeah, I felt very drawn into it. And
I didn't start creating right away. I really
just for two or three years just absorbed everything
I possibly could. to the point of me finding
a few dilapidated copies that were falling apart
and begging the library staff to let me just
buy them off of them so I could take care of
them and they wouldn't fall apart. And they wouldn't
let me buy them, but I found used versions of
them other places. I'm thinking about the translation
of Greta the Strong. I found a copy of that.
I did secure my own personal copy, but yeah.
And then I think at some point my brain was just
so full of characters and myths and stories that...
it was going to explode and it did into what
was eventually to become the Tantry Saga books.
And so, yeah. yeah and so the gate watch there
it is that's where i'm holding it up for viewers
listening on audio it is beautiful and i completely
ditto josh's statements about it being Tolkien
-esque i think that's what i described as well
in my own review when i read them well many years
ago when i backtracked them because they've been
out for a while now haven't they because they're
getting they get they're maturing i suppose they
did uh the first book came out just as the beginning
of COVID struck so my whole book tour was cancelled
and i had to rejig everything online but Yeah,
I'll always remember when it came out because
it was like literally the first like month or
two of lockdown which is unfortunate but thankfully
technology and shipping Eventually has allowed
many people to enjoy it And yeah, the game thing
sort of came in afterwards because I love board
games as I believe you love board games as well
My original degree is actually also in mathematics,
like pure mathematics. And so I have a very sort
of like number oriented brain. And the myths
plus my number oriented brain really found a
nice place to merge in game design because you've
got the narrative elements in game design of
what the roles of the players step into. But
then you've also got this underlying mechanical
structure, mathematical structure of what are
the points and what are the strategies and is
the game balanced? And those two things really
drew me in. People often look at me and say,
like, oh, all these random things that you do.
But to me, it makes total sense. It's like Vikings
and numbers and games and stories that could
all just melt together. I mean, I'm just impressed
because, A, the artwork that you've got, the
illustrations, they're just beautiful. They're
not kind of insulting or diminutive or stereotypical,
but they feel very realistic. And I quite like
that. And it was a very fun game to play with
my four friends when we used to well for the
past few years i've been able to meet up with
them for comic cons this year i couldn't well
as i did here last year i couldn't because i
was in norway so i'd already spent what money
i would have spent on comic con in norway so
that's one that's one yeah yeah but yeah it is
a lot of fun um all thingy one will rise i do
recommend it it's perfect for three to four players
um and it's a nice introduction to what especially
viking life in iceland is like because not many
people think of iceland when they think vikings
which is refreshing i think And it's a lovely
card set. And so I guess, because I believe it
was a Kickstarter, was it not? It was indeed.
Yes, it was. And I've run and feel blessed to
have run four successful Kickstarters at this
point in time. One of those with our good friend
in common, Ian Stewart Sharp, who's the master
of the Vikingverse. So we ran the translation
book. And then I also crowdfunded the game, the
expansion, and the anthology as well. Yeah, crowdfunding.
That's a wild ride. If you like the idea of strapping
yourself to a rocket ship and then just letting
the fuse, then that's kind of the closest experience
I could sort of compare it to. But yeah, what
I wanted to do with the game was create like,
I don't want to be like academic about it, but
I wanted to create a more authentically historical
experience for board gamers because there's tons
of games I love. I love Blood Rage, which is
a classic board game from Eric Lang. Canadian
board game designer as part of his sort of mythological
series of games. There's like Champions of Midgard,
there's a feast for Odin, lots of different ones,
but none of them really can be like captured
more like the cultural essence of being a Viking
in a society where, you know, there is a lot
of violence and there is, you know, ritualized
combat as a way to sort of settle disputes, but
there's also this strong sense of like... loyalty
and giving gifts to your followers and this sort
of political undercurrent that's especially in
Iceland was present because at the time of the
game and the height of the Viking age, they did
not have a strict kind of rigid monarchical structure.
It was more not quite a democracy. Some people
go a little far in terms of. praising how sort
of equivalently modern Iceland was. It was its
own culture in its own time, but it did have
a much more equitable structure in terms of the
landowners being able to have control of what
was happening. partly because it was so far off
the map for Europe. A lot of people didn't care
what was happening over there, and they could
just do their own thing. But also because there
was some really unique cultural elements of Norse
society that lent itself to that happening. And
as you know, and folks who are into Vikings might
know, a lot of the customs, culture, and language
from the pre -Christian contact Norse societies
was much better preserved for much longer in
Iceland, mostly because of its geographical isolation.
There's some political reasons for that, too.
Yeah, I didn't know how it was going to land.
Sometimes you're nerdy and passionate about something
and you put it up there and it's just crickets.
and nobody else seems to be excited about it.
But I put this out there, and there was just
this appetite for a kind of a historically set,
like guaranteed no horned helmets kind of thing,
right? A Viking game. And there was like, you
were amazing support during that time. And Osaka
Thing podcast was excited about it too. They
pumped it up. I think I still have a picture
of Andy said he took it when he went to Iceland.
He was like playing it at Thingaveller, like
in the actual natural park. That just like made
my day. But yeah, I was amazed and thrilled to
see that there were so many people that wanted
to see something like that, too. You mentioned
the art. The art was done by Lada Shistoba, who
is an incredible artist to begin with and is
also a Viking reenactor. And so we had many conversations
going back and forth. She had much more depth
of knowledge in terms of the styles and the materials.
But almost every artifact in the game and every
piece of clothing is based on some either historical
source or some material that was like known to
be used by Vikings. And so you'll see a lot of
the like the oval brooches on the women's dresses,
and you'll see sort of the cuts of the men's
jackets are based on sort of her reenacting experience,
which I think brought a lot of historical depth
to the game for people. So, yeah. Yeah, well,
that easily answers what would be my next question.
Why pick Iceland, of all places, to model a Viking
cave? So yeah, it's really insightful. For those
who kind of like didn't curious about how the
game works you basically become the goatee or
the leader of a group from four quarters of Iceland.
They've each got their bad points and good points
whether it's like where all the rebels live or
where the farmers live or where the shipbuilders
live. And then you have to recruit at this gathering
followers by offering them resources, whether
it's gold arm rings or a bucket, depending on
what cards are in your hand, so to speak. And
then at the end of the day, because it follows
like a clock of sorts, a morning and an afternoon,
I think. It's been a while since I played it.
But at the end of the afternoon in the play setting,
you then have to pick which followers to fight
against each other and see who wins. But your
cards always get replenished to some degree.
The following will turn to the next day, depending,
of course, on your geographical benefits or hindrances,
depending. Because I know one of my friends who
actually won that game, he was very, very clever
with his strategy. Very, very clever. I was like,
I don't know what I'm doing. That one. No, that
one. Yeah. But it was fun. It was fun. It's a
learning curve, but it's a really good learning
curve. And it's informative. And I like how it
I recognize that sword handle from a museum somewhere.
It just feels, if not true, very, very plausible.
Quite the word realistic. Again, it just felt
very realistic. And I really appreciated that
aspect. So I think I've only ever played one
Viking -esque type of board game with some old
D &D friends. And that was more kind of a resource
gathering. So you kind of like had to get all
the fisheries and all the boat builders on board
and fighting over who gets what resources and
who has the most resources wins. I'm like, is
that really what it was like? But it was a fun
idea. I can't remember what that was called.
I've got a feeling it was either Midgard or Valhalla
or some simplified name of that ilk. But yeah,
so you did the book first, which was Gatewatch,
and then was it Old Thing, and then after Old
Thing, did you then return to Torring Tentreads
and do the Everspring, which is book two. So
book two is the Everspring, yeah, and the funny
story is that when I actually started writing
the series, the Everspring was actually the book
I started. And for about four years, I was really
stuck on the intro. I wrote the first chapter
again and again, and I'd drop it for a few months
and come back to it. And what I realized was
I was actually starting the story in the middle,
and I had to start at the beginning. And so the
first book, The Gatewatch, actually began as
a prologue for what was The Everspring, which
is the book I was trying to write at the beginning.
And it turned into its own full novel. And it
stands on its own right. And I love it. It's
still like, go back to read it. It's a ton of
fun. I had this interesting experience that I
know a lot of authors have expressed, where if
you write a book, four or five years later you
come back to it and you know you wrote it but
you've done so much in between that you know
it's a little bit foggy and then you kind of
get drawn back into the story you're like oh
like if you really think about it you probably
remember what happens next but even the phrasing
and the character surprise you with a joke every
once in a while you forgot about and it's it's
fun to kind of relive the story it's like almost
like a good new reader so um so yes the ever
spring came out the timeline of all this is very
foggy because um as i was talking about before
the show as we were just chatting here um publication
is a very very glacial uh industry in some ways
and it's it's it's just it takes a lot to go
from manuscript to final draft to publishing
to shipping to being on your bookshelf. So yeah,
while this was all happening, I'd written the
Gatewatch. By the time the Gatewatch came out,
I'd actually written the entire Everspring and
submitted it, which was weird, because I was
excited about the Everspring. So I just finished
it. But everybody else in the world was just
being introduced to the Gatewatch. So I had to
go back, read my book again, and just make sure
I had all the details straight so I could do
book events and stuff like that too, which was
fun. And then in that time, I also did that,
writing the third book, which is forthcoming
here soon. And so the game and the book kind
of became, when stuff was slow for the book,
I could work on the board game. And then when
stuff got busy with the board game, I'd kind
of take my foot off the wheel for the book a
little bit. So it ended up working out kind of
a nice rhythm that it could bounce back and forth.
And it did kind of feel like I was using two
sides of my brain, like maybe the more narrative
side and maybe the more numerical side, if you
want to think of it that way. Creatively, I just
have this sort of like drive to create things
and it was nice to finally have a. you know,
a place to kind of funnel all that energy into.
And the fact that these projects made it to print
is an absolute miracle. I'm very grateful for
everybody who contributed along the way, including
editors and publishers and people who just gave
good reviews and asked about the book and things
like that and the game, because a lot of people
are trying to publish books and a lot of people
are trying to publish games. In some ways, it's
easier than ever with self -publishing to do
that, but it's still a long road. the success
that both the book and the game have had. I just
feel really, really lucky that the Norns wove
that nice little stitch into my story, because
it's been a pleasure to put that out. Yeah, I
mean, I was just thinking then, like, when did
I first come across the Gatewatch? Because I
can't remember if I did or if you found me through
various networks and said, hey, I have a book
in my life. Because I have been approached like
that by many of the people. I think you were
working, I believe you're associated with the
Valkyries website, and I think that was initially
I asked... I had retired, unfortunately, the
editor. Oh, okay. Yes, I know. Unfortunately,
we, I think they retired about two years ago
now. Ah, okay, okay. Unfortunately. I do think
that was our first contact, but yeah, yeah. And
then from there we've stayed in touch, it's been
awesome. Yeah, yeah. Across the ocean, across
the world, so. We weren't meant to be in the
same episode together with Vikings and Valkyries,
but... The Norns twisted fate, so we're now one
episode or two apart. They did. Had a blast,
and I'm still proud of how it just did. The Norns
in my life at this point in time look very much
like a two and a half year old girl that lives
in my house. So, yes, yes, yeah. I feel you,
I have a four year old. Yeah, you know what that's
all about, right? Also a girl, and they are a
force to be reckoned with. I tried to think that
I was like that when I was four. There's an Icelandic
term, it's not coming to my mind, but it translates
to like a fire poker. And it was a complimentary
term of an Icelandic woman who was just like
that. And so you wanted to raise a fire poker.
So anyways, I'm sure it sounds more badass in
Old Norse. But yeah, I like that. I got a little
fire poker on my hands here. Well, I was actually
meaning to ask you. of what old Norse sources
or influences besides of course J .R .R. Tolkien
himself having plundered Norse mythology for
the same thing, did you feed in to your books
The Everspring and The Gatewatch? It's really
funny to say that because I specifically when
I was writing the books was trying to not do
Tolkien and as you correctly pointed out Tolkien
draws heavily on the Norse myths and so in a
sense I think a lot of people view him as like
a primary source for the Norse myth and he really
is like an excellent source but he's really the
secondary source and a lot of his interpretations
of especially things like elves and dwarves are
much different than sort of the more like historically
attested Norse cosmology so part of what I was
trying to do is actually kind of like return
to more the primary sources but in doing that
because there is the same source material I think
people catch the essence of the Norse myths in
both works and so So find them comparable, which,
I mean, I could not be more pleased to be compared
to Tolkien. That's the highest standard I could
probably hold myself to as a fantasy author.
But yeah, so my original story for the Gatewatch,
which was the Everspring, they kind of turned
into this epic sort of trilogy, was I was just
doing a retelling of the Norse myth where they
are on a journey to go... Sorry, my brain here
is seeing the copy. So the Norse myth where Odin
and some of his friends go on an adventure to
Jotunheim and they are encountering giants and
then doing all the things they do. And as the
retelling sort of formed, I wanted to flesh out,
I really enjoyed Kevin Crossley Holland's translation
of the Norse myths. And as that story of Thor
and Loki going to travel starts to develop, and
as I started to fill in the details, it just
sort of grew legs of its own. And so the main
character, as you know, is Thorin, is very similarly
associated with Odin, so he's got like a sort
of Odinic traits. Grimsa is a very Thor -like
character. He's probably the most on par with
one of the Norse myths. And then Bryn in the
first novel is kind of like a Loki -esque character.
And so the three characters that just started
as a simple retelling really started to grow
from that. And so I think it retains a lot of
elements of Norse descriptions of the Viking
world, of Scandinavia at the time, but also their
imaginations of what Jotunheim might look like,
this mountainous region full of giants and trolls
and all sorts of other things. And so, yeah,
my intent at the beginning was just to kind of
celebrate and kind of reimagine and reinvent
and almost like re -invite folks to sort of like
experience this magical realm that I had kind
of discovered in these translated books that
were collecting dust on the university shelf
and kind of invite them back into that world.
And in doing so, I sort of created a world of
my own. And I think it's been a portal and a
gateway for folks to rediscover that too and
maybe see the Norse myths in a different light.
So it's... One of those things where I still
get emails like every month or two from somebody
in random places like Europe or the States or
like overseas in Australia and that's amazing
to kind of see. A, that the stories resonated
with them, but B, there's something about, like
I was saying at the beginning, there's something
about the myths that just really draw you in.
They're so fascinating. They're dark. These gods
are not perfect beings, obviously. They have
a lot of flaws. But there's something that just
keeps us coming back to these stories again and
again. And that's what drew me in. And I think
that's what has drawn readers to the series.
And I hope it continues the tradition of reinventing
these and breathing new life into them in different
contexts so folks can continue to enjoy it. Yeah,
I mean it's making me think back to like the
very first chapter or so in the Gatewatch where
Torian and his best buddies are trudging up that
mountain in the fog and they meet dwarves and
then the most un -stereotypical dwarf -like dwarves
you could ever come across and yet they're so,
it's refreshing but it also feels familiar because
of course I'm familiar with most of the myths,
not all of them, I couldn't quote them by any
means. i know dwarves kind of like they had their
tricks and their things and they and of course
they had there's a bit of a riddle and an exchange
of words and Tony's friends get some gifts try
not to spoil it too much dear viewers but they
get some gifts but they're not what they think
they are and there's always a price to these
things and yes yes yes it just shows that Loki
wasn't the only trickster there were i mean Odin
Odin is the biggest trickster of them all because
he makes everyone think he's not the trickster
which i think personally but yeah totally totally
But yeah, but I absolutely adored the books,
adored the characters. I remember, I think I
emailed you after I finished the Everspring for
back -ending. Oh my goodness, there's a lot of
drama and tension building in the Everspring.
But it was all absolutely enjoyable. In fact,
you're making me want to reread them now. Just
talking about them because I have them. Well,
if you know the secret to reading time when you've
got a four or a two and a half year old, do let
me know. I think it's coffee. That's what I got
in my hand right now. It's my meat of poetry
as it were. Yes. That's the other thing. I absolutely
fell in love with your feast hall scenes, both
the food and the drink and kind of like, I think
it is in the Everspring or maybe at the end of
the gate shot where they have a big celebration
for whatever reason and like bring out the most
luxurious bowls of meat and people get drunk
and do silly things and it's just fun. absolute
fun and I can feel your enthusiasm and passion
coming through all of it and it was really, really
wonderful. I suppose we should touch on Old Norse
for modern times. Yes indeed, let's do it. Everyone
should have this on their bookshelf. I personally
haven't quite used it because I know I absolutely
butchered pronunciation in I can't speak English
fluently the best of times. So how did that come
about then? Great question. So there's several
accounts of a tradition in Norse culture where
at the Yule feast, people would make boasts.
and they would go around the room and everybody
would boast about something that they were going
to kind of achieve that year. And of course,
not to be overdone by the person next to you,
these tended to sort of accelerate and get larger
as you went around the circle and more ambitious.
And so Harold Finehair is probably the most famous
example of this where he boasts that he will
conquer all of Norway and he will not cut his
hair until he does it to win the hand of the
Danish king's daughter. And so in a similar fashion,
Ian had this harebrained idea based on a book
that he had of humorous Latin translations. So
it was Latin for things like slam dunk or like
cowabunga dude, right? Like how you'd say that
in Latin. And so he said, the world is missing
this kind of polarity, but in Old Norse. And
I think we'd be the ones to do it. And so none
of us had a... deep academic background, but
I obviously had an interest. Both of us had studied
the language. I've studied Norwegian and was
somewhat fluent at one point in time. And so
we drew on that a little bit. And we brought
in Dr. Arne Grimer -Vedelin from University of
Iceland, who helped us verify some of the translations
and pronunciations. And then the esteemed Siobhan
Clark, who hosts the Myths, Legends and Lore
podcast and narrated significant portions of
the book for us too. So that was a lot of fun.
It was neat because it was a bit of a collaborative
effort on our part and on the part of the backers
because we had a bunch of phrases sort of planned
out, but there was a chance for backers to also
contribute phrases. And so it was neat to kind
of just have some fun things translated. So you
get like ranging from like, you know, no, I am
your father from Star Wars quote to, you know,
actual historical quotes from, you know, Odin's
sayings or, you know, have a mouth or some of
the myths. So it was a neat project is honestly
was pre COVID. And I do feel like there's this
like barrier in my brain, anything that happened
for COVID kind of seems like it happened in some
distant imagined past. But it did happen. And
it's an awesome book. And many copies have sold.
So and if you were interested in Ian's stuff,
I also encourage you, there's a whole literal
universe called the Vikingverse that he's created
full of books and games and a fantastic RPG,
which as you mentioned, we had the chance to
go and be featured on. Yes, I second that call.
Dear listeners and viewers, go to Vikingverse
.com and I'm pleased to say that I will have
Mr. Ian Stewart -Sharp himself on the podcast.
Fantastic. March. I've got him coming in March.
That's when we've got the date penciled in. So
yes. So yes, I'll be grilling him on this book
and all his many other things as well as his
podcast, which we feature in. Please go listen
to that Vikings and Valkyries. Go have fun. It's
a wild ride. So I guess for you. Because obviously
book 3 is in the process of coming through, it's
in the works, have you got anything else lined
up or do you think you've just... Hit the peak
of your mountain so to speak. That is a good
question I've always got something in the works.
I probably have four games kind of in the background
that I you know pitch to publishers and May one
day see the light of day we can hope we'll see
and That's that's always a bit of a shake -up.
I design games before I'll think it won't rise
and I've designed games since and so it would
be nice to get one of those out at some point
so I won't say too much more until I find a publisher
for them because I don't want to creating a sense
of false hope as it's a bit of like watching
sea turtles trying to get up to the ocean there.
But I have continued writing projects. I've recently
been involved in a small press down in Victoria,
which is close to where I live on Vancouver Island
here in Canada. And it's run by Shannon Sin,
who wrote a staggeringly successful book called
The Haunting of the... Haunting of the Northwest,
I believe. It's about ghost stories from all
around the Pacific Northwest, mostly focused
on Canada. And so he started a pressing one to
feature sort of... folkloric horror fantasy type
fiction from Western Canadian writers. And so
I was invited to contribute to the first anthology
called Black Cat. It's a very cool anthology
if you are into folklore, which is ghost stories.
It's all fiction. It's all sort of locally set
on the West Coast, which is neat. I was invited
back to edit the second anthology. It's called
That Witch Whispers, and it's a focus, same setting,
so on the Pacific Northwest, but with a focus
on witches and witch lore. And that was really
neat to edit. I added that alongside Zoe McKenna,
who's an amazing author and also editor and reviewer.
And I also am returning to the third anthology
as a contributor again. And I've been working
on a story that is, of course, Viking themed
and set in Valhalla National Park, or sorry,
Valhalla Provincial Park, I should say, which
is an actual provincial park in BC here. And
so you have mountains like Odin's Peak and Gladsheim
and things like that. Interesting. Is there a
lot of Norse Nordic influence in Canada then?
Because of course I don't know much about migration
generally, so I've never known of anyone from
the Scandinavian end going all the way to Canada.
Of course everyone knows of people going over
to the US, including us Brits. Yep, we put on
a ship and went over there, but we never think
much of Canada, I'm ashamed to say, for some
strange unknown reason. There's a lot of empty
space up here, which unfortunately can get a
little bit lonely. But for the most part, we
do enjoy our space. Yeah, there was a high, high
volume of Scandinavian settlers. For example,
my great grandparents who settled in northern
Alberta. The prairies are very famous. It's sort
of the middle section of Canada. Fairly flat,
very arable farmland. The prairies are famous
for these sort of pockets of cultural communities.
So to this day, you'll find German -speaking
communities that speak German first and English
second. or Russian communities or French communities
or Polish communities or Ukrainian communities,
you really will find all different types across
the prairies, which is, it makes for a really
cool cultural mosaic. But I would say to BC,
you've been to Norway. You said you went to Norway
last year. I've been to Norway. It's a beautiful
country. It was neat to return. The west coast
of Canada and I've had friends from Norway visiting
here saying the exact same thing They've never
been to a place that looks so much like Norway
The fjords are maybe a little bit steeper in
Norway But like the the vibe sort of the coastal
aesthetics or the ruggedness At the mountains
like and the sea right close by side each other
are very very similar So yeah Yeah. And I think
Scandinavian influence, you know, this is like
the whole probably another topic of conversation,
but, you know, it's a mixed bag, you know, you
get the good and the bad. I think in the UK,
you struggle with a similar thing of like, it's
often co -opted for, you know, nefarious purposes.
But I really view my work as important in trying
to reclaim the myths and set the narrative on
a more constructive path, because I found it
so personally rewarding to reconnect with my
heritage. And it's just as a part of like building
my self identity and now my family culture now
that I have you know, a daughter. That's been
really neat. So yeah, yeah, I would say that
there are historically many towns named after
Scandinavian places. Gimli in Manitoba holds
an Icelandic festival that's very famous every
year. That's kind of the center of Icelandic
culture, I guess, if you'd want to say, in Canada,
as far as I know. But really, yeah, especially
spread across the prairies, you get a lot of
different Scandinavian communities. there is
a new Scandinavian bakery that opened up near
me, which I'm absolutely thrilled about. So I
will pitch them as well, just in case somebody
happens to be around. They're called S'more Bakery
and Cafe, and they're down in Saanich, which
is another place in the island. Sydney, actually,
I believe, right in the town of Sydney. And they're
wonderful. So you don't see as much of the Scandinavian
culture, I think, on the west coast here as you
do in the prairies, but it's still present. Yeah,
those Vikings, they like to travel. They do,
they do. I mean, it's making me think back to
the recently finished Vikingsfell Halliseras,
which of course features Leif Erikson on his
very, very purely fictional travels in the wrong
direction on the world before he finally learns
out how to go west. Canada or is that really
the northern edge of the U .S. because I can't
picture it on the map in my head. Yeah Lonsal
Meadows is like the north tip of Newfoundland
and given my genealogical research my family
from the UK originally is Gillingham that's where
my name comes from settles in Kings Point which
is also very close to Lonsal Meadows so it's
sort of the north tip of Newfoundland Labrador
which is the furthest east province and actually
Newfoundland is an island off of the coast of
Canada and is a part of Canada so yeah. Yeah.
So there's that very celebrated Viking connection.
There's many claims of Viking finds in the States,
but none have ever been archaeologically verified.
There are attestations in the sagas about Vinland,
which most likely, you know, land of wine or
rich land refers to North America. So there may
have been landings more in the mainland, but
Lansalmetas is the only archaeological, archaeologically
confirmed site that Vikings were at. So, yeah.
It's the biggest joke. I think the Vikings have
appalled calling Iceland No, Greenland, Greenland,
when it's mostly ice and snow. Iceland is variable.
And of course, Vinland, when they found supposedly
great. But I never know whether that's. actually
in the sagas, or if it's just an urban myth that's
just been passed down ever since. But it has
been wonderful talking to you about all this.
I could carry on, but I know you've got a job
and I need to get to bed, because we're in difficult
times. So I'm taking precious time off your working
day, but I really appreciate you joining in my
humble whole of Valhalla conversations. And if
anything, I would like to get you definitely
in future for when book three does come out in
the world. I would love to talk about all three
books and then I can speak about all the spoilers.
And if anything, I will read them both before
book three comes out definitely. But I wish you
best of luck with whatever adventures you're
doing next, whether they're Norse or not. And
thank you again very much for your time. Becky,
I so appreciate you having me on Tusen tak, as
they say in Norway. And I look forward to chatting
again soon. Thank you so much. Thank you very
much for listening to this episode. I hope you
enjoyed the discussions between my special guests
and myself. Please do check out the episode blurb
for links to their works and websites. If you
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