of the SoulChaser Becky YouTube channel and welcome
to episode 9 of Valhalla Conversations titled
Worthy Women of Saga and Mythology and Legends
and everything else in between. And this episode
is a very special episode because I'm not on
my own as a woman. I've got two other excellent
women guests joining me today, and they themselves
are the hosts of a really good YouTube podcast.
And it's also on Spotify and all the other places
you can find good podcasts called Shield Maiden
Women of the North Well, which is appropriate
because that is what we're going to be talking
about tonight. So, ladies, if you'd like to introduce
yourselves, who would like to go first? I can.
Would you like to go? Sure. I'm Kaye S. Barton,
and I'm the author of the Norse Family Trilogy,
in which a young Viking woman and a Viking warrior
are caught in a deadly blood feud between two
brothers. And here's the first book. It's called
Warrior and Weaver. Beautiful. She's the weaver.
He's the warrior. But even if she's not fighting
with a sword and a shield, she's still pretty
fierce. That sounds fabulous. It is on my to
read list. I've put it on my Kindle. I just need
to find time to read it. Like all my other books,
I need to find time to read them. I hear you.
OK, well, thank you for joining me tonight, Kim.
Well, thank you for having me. Your time zones,
everyone. We need to find the Doctor Who TARDIS
to all meet in the same spot. Okay, who else
have we tonight? I'm Johanna Wittenberg, and
I'm the author of the Norsewoman series, which
is the story. This is my hardback that I just
got recently. At this point, I'm up to six books.
It's the story of a real Norse queen who lived
and ruled alone in early Viking Age Norway. And
I'll be talking about her later on in the podcast.
So nice to see you both and thank you for having
me, Rebecca. You're very welcome. Thank you for
agreeing to participate in what is actually my
joyride of pursuing my passion for anything Vikingy
and going where it goes and thankfully having
wonderful guests like you let me vent out that
passion and follow it to wherever it may end.
Okay, so for tonight's topic, dear viewers and
listeners, we have each picked a woman from the
sagas of history. and a woman figure from the
mythology of legends and so we've each got a
kind of a favourite kind of a female champion
but there's so many out there there really are
so many um and I shall begin so mine is a woman
that probably many many many may not have heard
of when I can get my words right um called Ord
the deep -minded or she'd sometimes go by the
name of Unr or Unr I can't get the Icelandic
pronunciation right but she has been written
about in various books about women in the Viking
Age and so I'm not going to quote well I'm not
going to talk about I'm going to read from the
book because they've written it a lot better
than I can explain it. I'm going to start off
with Women in the Viking Age which of course
was a breaking a very good book to break into
for those who have an interest in women in the
in Viking Age both historically and mythologically
and of course it's written by the wonderful Judith
Jesch who I've met many times many years ago
albeit at the University of Nottingham when I
used to go to the Midlands Viking Symposium there
annually. So to begin, according to the Landmabok
which was the big tomb of sagas of Iceland, Odra
was the daughter of the Norwegian chieftain Kettle
Flatnose. loved the Norsenik knights, who went
to the Hebrides as an agent for King Harald Finehair.
She married a Norse King of Dublin, not everyone
that can do that, who was sadly killed then in
a battle in Ireland. Her son Thorstein was then
killed fighting in Scotland and so orders two
main projects were then to leave for Iceland
and to marry off Thorstein's many daughters.
She prepared a ship in secret, which is pretty
amazing, and 20 free men accompanied her. So
again, men follow the woman. Not often you count
to that. She married off a granddaughter each
in Orkney and the Faroes and arrived in Iceland
where two of her brothers were already living.
Her retinue was so large that the first brother
could only be able to invite half of them to
stay. Offended, order when meant to stay with
her other brother who was obviously more obliging.
The following spring she went to look for a place
to settle and in Breda Fjorda and the number
of the place names of the area are explained
by little anecdotes to do with her such as Cam's
Nest or Cone Headland is so called because apparently
she lost her comb there so if anyone finds a
comb there it could be hers. Ordo chose to live
at Havermoor where she raised a cross because
she was a good Christian, although her descendants
later relapsed. Interesting. In this district
she distributed land to her shipmates and freed
slaves and the remaining granddaughters were
married. Finally we are given a detailed description
of her death. She invited all her relatives to
a magnificent feast and after three nights she
gave everyone gifts and good advice saying the
feast should continue another three nights so
that it could be her funeral feast. She then...
died rather promptly and conveniently and was
buried on the seashore as she had not wanted
to be buried in this unconsecrated earth. However
much we choose to believe, it is clear that Audra
was an exceptional woman. I absolutely agree
with that statement. Although there were probably
few, if any other female settlers quite like
her, she shows the maximum a woman could achieve
in the socially turbulent times of the Viking
age, deprived of the support of both husband
and son. She had to take initiatives and undertake
a male role if she was to get her family to Iceland.
Having done so, she clearly commanded respect.
In the more settled societies of Norway, where
they came from, and Iceland as it became, women
probably had fewer opportunities to play any
other role than those of wife, mother and housekeeper.
Audra took advantage of the greater opportunities
and fewer social constraints in the Norse colonies
of the British Isles, and that the later stories
and legends about her, however romanticised,
preserve a true picture of the possibilities
opened up for women in the upheaval of the Viking
movements. Beautifully well put, Judith. I couldn't
agree with it more. So yes, she is a fascinating
woman. It's always piqued my interest when I
first read about her and how she, A, kind of
suffered the loss of the key male figures in
her life, both her husband and her son, but that
she still had enough power and respect and influence
over the other family members and those who served
and worked under their family to then migrate
everyone. To build a ship in secret? I mean,
I don't know how many shipwrights would have
agreed to just allow a woman to come and say,
can you build me a ship? But don't tell anyone.
Like, don't think like, why isn't your husband
asking me to do this kind of thing? But yes,
it's interesting. And of course, to do that voyage
to Iceland, not always going well with the turbulent
seas and the misdirection of the winds and whatnot.
And just the fact that she had an influence then
on Iceland and the place names. And it's just...
Such a fascinating, absolutely fascinating life
and I want to know more. I want to know more
about her. I think there should be a whole series
about her. It sounds dramatic, it sounds full
of drama in this intrigue. it's almost a bit
like it just makes me think of echoes of kind
of Elizabeth the first kind of ruling alone and
of course Emma of Normandy who was a much later
descendant of the Vikings kind of making her
own headway getting through life with sons and
kings and husbands dying off one after the other
all around her but still kind of like clinging
to the power and taking influence and that kind
of thing. So what do you two think about odd?
Whichever way didn't she die sitting up to like
I was just gonna say that yes, she died sitting
up in bed Yeah, didn't say in there. We just
know that she seemed to well it does in the saga
so Decided like now I'm gonna die and I'm gonna
die, you know sitting up. She told her son prepare
Her she said to her son in the spring. She said
go find a wife So he did. He went off to find
a wife and then they had a wedding feast. And
she said, all right, now that you're married,
I want the wedding, the feast to go on three
days longer. And because I'm going to die. And
she did three days. The feast continued. And
then she retired to her bedroom and she was found
later sitting up in bed. So, yes. There's a lot
of details that didn't get included. Another
thing is that her two of her granddaughters were
married off. One was in the Orkney Islands and
the other, Shetlands? Shetlands or the Faroes?
Maybe it was the Faroes. That's right, it was
the Faroes. Yeah, Orkney and the Faroes. And
then she arrived in Iceland. And she did not
ask those guys to build her a ship. She ordered
them to. She was a very wealthy, powerful woman.
I was going to say she was the father of the
gods as well. She was the head of the house.
So she took male slaves with her as well, because
it also says in the saga that she freed several
of them and awarded them land. they claimed their
land was like how far you could walk in one day
or something like that is how much land you could
have. Was that in that one or something? I'm
maybe thinking of a different one. That was a
legend about a goddess. Remember we talked about
her? And she could plow in one day. But the other
thing about in one of the sagas about Aod is
she threw her pillars. her high seat pillars
which was a tradition and it was just kind of
mentioned it wasn't really made a big deal of
but she they didn't even say she threw her pillars
overboard they said she found her pillars and
that's why she decided to make her homestead
where she did but it was a tradition when you
approached Iceland to throw your high seat pillars
overboard and then wherever they turned up that's
where the gods meant you to settle. Although
she may have been a Christian by this time, she
still went by the old traditions. Whenever I
read that story or hear that story, I think,
how in the world did she keep that ship being
built a secret? Because that's not a small feat
to build a Viking ship. especially if it's enough
to fit the people and her and all their belongings
that she was taking with them and presumably
some distance maybe at some harbour or river
opening, river mouth, because I'm not sure where
she was based when she was in the UK before that
ship then set sail. It must have been kind of
near my side of the world to be on the west and
then go to the Orkneys and then the Faroes. Oh
no, Orkney's on the other way. That's the Shetland.
Orkney's up that way, isn't it? I'm rubbish with
geography, ladies and gentlemen. GCFC, never
again. Orkney and Farrow's, that's the route
to Iceland. Those are like the traditional stops.
And she married her granddaughters off to highborn
men. Yes. Many worthy of them. Weren't her descendants,
I think they were also like, you know, pretty
like kings and stuff of those places too. They
were Yarles anyway, yeah. Yarles, yeah. Yes,
I wasn't messing around. No, no, I mean, there's
another book that does mention and again, it's
another recommended read of mine and to any viewers
and this is watching is Valkyrie the Women of
the Viking World by Johanna Catherine Friedrichsdottir.
I had the pleasure of meeting her in person at
my academic debut at the, oh my god, I've got
the name of it, the conference, the symposium
in. Stavanger in Norway. I can't remember the
name of it now that's really embarrassing it
was only in late August shows how bad my memory
is generally um but yeah she's got a nice section
in here more or less saying the same thing that
Judith does in her book um but there's a little
bit in here where as it says Be 'una is resourceful
and she manages to get a ship built and presumably
a sail woven or purchased because of course women
were vital in the sail industry in secret and
sails off to Iceland with a large following and
whatever movable property they could muster.
The narrator assures us that People say it is
hard to find another example of a woman managing
to escape from such a hostile situation with
as much wealth and as so many followers. It shows
what an exceptional woman Una was and yeah it's
just like even the sagas just can't praise her
highly enough and I just love that. I love that
because they're always thinking places about
so and so and so and they're always men, always
men, but it's nice that there are such women
coming through in the sagas. And one of the things
that I think I read about in this one, a real
Valkyrie by Nancy Marie Brown. Oh, I'm halfway
through that one. That's a great one too. She
talks about that there were actually 13 women
settlers in Iceland in the La Nama book that
settled without men. I mean, they didn't have
men with them. They just came on their own volition
and claimed land on their own. Nothing else is
known about them except their names. They're
listed in the book. And then there were other
women who came with their husbands or with men
in their family who were later widowed. So there
were a number of women homesteaders, but there
were over 400 men homesteaders, and there were
13 women. They were definitely in a minority,
but they were there. They did do it. It must
have been incredibly difficult. Yeah, definitely.
Well, that is my nomination for my favorite woman
of history and sagas. Who was it? It's a good
choice. I love odd two. She's great. All right.
So now over to me. And I chose Lagertha. So any
listeners or viewers who are here will probably
at least recognize that name from the TV show
Vikings. She was the shield maiden wife of Ragnar
Lothbrok. And her story comes from Saxo Grammaticus,
his early work from the 13th century, the Jesta
Donorum. Is it Jesta or Gesta? I don't know.
I don't know if it's a soft G or a hard G. Anyway,
I think it's just the norm. It means the deeds
of the Danes. So yeah, so he's got a bit about
her. It's mostly, the story's mostly about Ragnar
as she shows up a few times. So the story starts
with the fall of Ragnar's grandfather. He was
a Norwegian king named Seward. by another Swedish
king whose name I can't pronounce. It's Fro.
I'm not sure how. And this conquering king put
all of King Seward's female family members into
a brothel. And when word of this reached Ragnar
that his grandfather had been conquered and they
were mistreating the women this way, he decided
to go and do something about it. Ragnar was the
king of Jutland and Denmark at this time. And
when Ragnar arrived in Norway, he was met by
a group of women, all these women who had been
put in the brothel and had been mistreated and
abused. They all met him and a lot of them were
dressed up as men. So yeah, because these women,
they were ready to get a little revenge. on this
Swedish king. And I don't blame them. And so
they had a big battle with Ragnar and this Swedish
king Fro. And during this battle, the women fought
just alongside the men and they were particularly
brave, especially one woman who turned out to
be Lagertha. And Ragnar even claimed that she
turned the tide of the battle. This is a shield
marry. Yeah. And here's how Saxo described her.
A skilled Amazon who though a maiden had the
courage of a man and fought in front among the
bravest with her hair loose over her shoulders,
all marveled at her matchless deeds for her locks
flying down her back betrayed that she was a
woman. So she was in the front. lines, which
is particularly brave. But I thought it was kind
of interesting that her long hair down her back
betrayed the woman, according to him. So I was
like, does that mean that Viking men didn't typically
wear their hair long? I thought that was kind
of an interesting little detail. That's a good
question, yeah. because we have this image of
viking men with long hair often sounds like yep
did they not you would think you'd pull it back
at least because i would get in the way and be
a you know a hindrance anyway so but not only
was she brave she was also of noble birth which
was a bonus for ragnar because there's often
classist tones overtones and norse stories they
really yeah so if she'd just been some regular
woman I don't think Ragnar would have been interested.
So then he returned home, but he was smitten
by this courageous shield maiden. So he started
sending her messages. And according to Saxo,
she was not interested in Ragnar, but she led
him on, let him think she was interested. gave
him some confidence that he'd won over this woman.
So he went to Norway to claim her. But he was
in for a shock. And I can tell from Johanna's
face that she knows. So out front of her house,
Lagertha had positioned two guardians, a dog
and a bear. And I like to imagine that this dog
was. very large, like some giant wolfhound or
something like that. And then Ragnar, because
he's this particular story's hero, defeats both
of these guardians. And one he killed by killing
it with a spear and the other he choked to death
with his bare hands. That must have been the
bear. Yeah. Of course. Saxo doesn't say which
one was which. Yeah. And that makes me think
of Beowulf, you know him. Didn't he? Was it Grendel's
mother he strangled with his bare hands? I don't
remember. I think it was. So and then according
to Saxon, thus he had the maiden as the prize
of the peril he had overcome. So he won the fair
maiden, like a fairy tale. Except this doesn't
have a happily ever after. But this is the Viking
age, so there isn't a happily ever after. So
they did marry and they had two daughters who
were unnamed, of course, and then a son named
Fridleaf. And they lived together in Norway for
three years. But then there was some unrest back
home in Denmark. that drove Ragnar back. And
then Lagertha stayed in Norway. And then during
this time period is when Ragnar kind of stepped
out on Lagertha. It's when he gets his nickname
Harry Breaches during this time. And he decided
to marry another woman named Thora. So and according
to Saxo, Saxo, Ragnar began to think ill. of
Lagertha's, her trustworthiness because she had
set those two guardians up and led him on and
everything. To me, it sounds like your typical
justification of a king who simply wants to get
rid of this inconvenient wife and get another
one. I'm sure Henry VIII had exactly the same
mindset. That went through my mind. I think I
want this wife now. Yeah. So then Lagertha, she
remarried too, because they did get a divorce,
which was not as difficult in the Viking age
as it was later. And then Ragnar back in Denmark,
he ran into some trouble again. Some of his people
or people were rising up against him. So he called
for assistance from his Norwegian allies, including
Lagertha. Yeah, and apparently the love she had
for him still flowed deep and steadfast. So she
and her husband and her son sailed with 120 ships
to help out right now. That's pretty impressive.
That's pretty huge. That's almost too big, I'm
thinking. That's a real exaggeration. It makes
me think of Harold Harada's fleet when he first
came and then how few he left. Well, his son
left with yeah and so here's here and of course
just like when regnar attacked the king that
had put her in a brothel lagratha saves the day
and this is what saxo has to say lagratha who
had a matchless spirit though a delicate form
frame covered by her splendid bravery the inclination
of the soldiers to waver for she made a sally
about and flew round to the rear of the enemy
taking them unawares and thus turned the panic
of her friends into the camp of the enemy at
the at last the lines of herald became slack
and herald himself was routed with a great slaughter
of his men Yay Lagertha! And I love that he used
the phrase flew round to the rear of the enemy
because it makes me think of a Valkyrie and how
they would fly over the battlefield. And she
might also have been inspired by a Norwegian
goddess named Ørgerd who did something similar
to... Hack on Sigurdsson during a sea battle.
He had sacrificed his son to her earlier And
but when they had the sea battle she like turned
the wind against the enemy and then she also
Threw and arrows at the end. She shot arrows
at the enemy and killed them all and helped out
hack on just that like this woman coming in and
kind of saving the day at the sea battle reminded
me a little bit so she could be linked Thorgaard.
There's always a like bit of legend in with all
these historical stories too. But unfortunately,
but not surprisingly for our hero Lagertha Saxo
did not have kind words for her in the end. So
when she returned to Norway, she murdered her
husband while he was asleep with a spearhead
that she hid in her nightgown. And this is what
he said about her. Then she usurped the whole
of his name and sovereignty for this most presumptuous
dame thought it or damn dame thought it pleasanter
to rule without her husband than to share the
throne with him so boo saxo but and i've never
read anything i don't know if there was somebody
you know but anyway but it's a very frustrating
end to this pretty glorious story of this woman,
this shield maiden woman who came to Ragnar's
help twice and basically bailed him out. And
then Saxo had to go and just cut her down at
the very end. So. And it wasn't like it wasn't
common to, you know, knock off your rival for
the throne, which is what her husband had apparently
turned into. Yeah, true. She wanted the throne
herself like many, many other men. Right? It
reminds me a little bit of the way Gunhild, the
mother of kings. Wait, is it Gunhild? Yeah, the
way she was treated in history. Yes, very much
so. The TV show, The Vikings, that first season...
they really do a good job with they don't stick
exactly to the facts but they really stick to
the spirit of you know of their the marriage
between Ragnar and and Lagertha and their divorce
and and then her coming to his aid not with a
fleet of 120 ships but and also offing her husband
but she's a little more justified in the TV show.
So I thought they did a really good job with
that. Later on, they kind of go off the rails,
but the first season or two were pretty good.
And it was very cool just to see, you know, they
did also a very good job of portraying what Viking
life was like and their buildings and how they
dressed. got a little hollywoody on us but they
did yeah they really did a pretty good job that
first couple seasons i really liked it and lagert
that was a main main character throughout this
series and she was treated as a heroine in that
was good that was i like their treatment of her
well she was for the most part in this until
the very very end as long as she was uh you know
not taking her own part Yeah, that's true. She's
another very inspiring heroine. Yeah, I must
admit I've not seen all of the Vikings series.
I think I stopped at season four. That's probably
a good place to stop. I think it was when his
sons had grown up, so there was Ivar, Snake,
and the Eye. And then there was Bjorn, who would
eventually become Ironside. And of course, I
follow it up to the point of keeping an eye on
how Rollo then took over Normandy and Stendatta,
because so many, so few realize that Normandy
means land of the Northman. It has, it has strong
Viking roots. And Rollo was not Ragnar's brother,
but in the series he's Ragnar's brother. I don't
think they were, I think they may have been contemporaries,
but he wasn't the brother. Wasn't Rollo a little
later? maybe later yeah yeah it's netflix and
just tv in general they like to blend timelines
um especially what they've done with viking solhalla
which is a complete spaghetti of history they
really do it there i actually had to check out
of that one because i was like i can't have these
people who weren't even like in the same alive
at the same time like talking to each other.
They're really really old or they're really young
to not even like walk or talk yet. Right I'm
thinking okay Canute would have been like eight
years old when this guy was like And like Leif
Erikson was in, but anyway, I was just like,
these people weren't intersecting. So I had a
hard time with that one. I made it through the
first couple. I liked the first couple of seasons
of Vikings. And then I just kind of ran out of
steam. So now it's good to know that maybe it
was a good time to stop. It was interesting that
I will say that for them. They really gave Freydis
her own kind of spotlight. in the series as a
female leader not just kind of like making her
kind of like the chosen one of all pagans but
throwing challenge after challenge at her kind
of like both in military kind of like with men
trying to usurp her and take over a little settlement
of Jomsberg but kind of giving her the challenge
of finding safety, finding food, getting trade,
kind of like that kind of thing. because in season
three, and I'm sorry if I'm going to spoil for
you ladies, she makes it all the way back to
Greenland where she meets her dad, of course,
Eric the Red, and he himself is not quite a nice
heroic figure. He's quite controlling, quite
dominant. He knows his people are starving and
they're suffering and then they're living literally
off rotten meat found up on the shore. That was
a lovely scene. But he won't let Freydis and
her people go because he needs these people to
keep the settlement going. He needs their supplies
and he even kills her own captain and takes over
a ship so she literally cannot leave. She has
to escape through subterfuge to go back to Kasiget,
of course, the fictional settlement in Norway,
to try and recruit a captain. And of course,
rather ironically, she bumps into her brother,
who has come all the way back from Constantinople,
of course, where he's been all this time. Did
you say she was part of the Joms Vikings? she
was not she never was in the show in the show
yeah i know she was not not quite the joms vikings
they kind of like they don't have an elite warrior
cast there but it's kind of like the last remaining
settlement of pagans because of course canute
is christian therefore norway's christian denmark
becomes christian so it's it's showing the lens
of kind of like the dying out of the old ways
and the rising of christianity i mean in the
very first episode of season three canute is
meeting the pope and canute is not liking how
he has to act inferior towards the pope and he
doesn't understand why the pope won't talk to
him it's got to be his clergy even though the
pope is sat right there he's like why can't he
talk to me he's right there the clerk's like
no you do not address the pope we speak for the
pope he was like why i'm the i'm the greatest
king of the north why can i not speak directly
to him um it was it there's some interesting
things some interesting things um And if you
ever have the time, me and a couple of other
special guests did a whole review of that season.
Patricia Bracewell and Sharon Bennett Connolly,
who of course is a great historian on women of
history. I know she's got a really exciting book
about Scottish queens coming out in the new year.
But anyway, slightly off topic. The one thing
that did ring my mind in the Vikings TV series
about Ligatha was her scenes when she tried to
kind of like run the settlement that they tried
to find found in what would be eventually the
Danelaw and I think it was King Guthrum, Alfred's
dad or Alfred the Great -to -be's dad and how
she kind of uses her womanly wiley way to kind
of like canoodle up with him but then kind of
like keep her distance and keep her own little
settlement and do their pagan things. I thought
that was interesting. Was it not Alfred the Great's
dad? No. No, he was he was a leader of the great
Viking army. Oh, that's right. I'm getting my
names muddled up. Yeah. Oh, I can't remember
his name. He was dead way before this started.
I can't remember his father's name. He took Alfred
the Great. The king of Wessex Sea area at the
time. Yeah, yeah. She canoodled up with him.
And I think Guthrum was a co -king of England
at one point. So that might be what you're thinking
of. Maybe. maybe. It's been a while and parenthood
has permanently abled my brain so I'm good if
I can remember names on most days, let alone
historical names. Okay so I think that's a really
nice selection of historical coming that of course
you dear viewers and listeners please do go research,
find good books like these ones and the ones
that our lovely guests have showcased they are
really worth the read. They're not that laboriously
academic, and the pictures they create and the
sources they mention are all genuine, so you
can trust these books. Don't trust Netflix and
TV jammers. They're kind of like, take them to
a big, they keep assaults, basically. But they
are, the Netflix shows are nice because you do
get a picture of Viking, Viking lifestyle that
in some ways is accurate, especially the first
couple seasons. Sorry, yes, please do divulge
us with your wonderful female figure. So Queen
Osa is mentioned in the Inglinger Tal, and that's
an ancient Scandinavian poem, and Snorri Sturluson
imported that into his book, The Heimskringle,
which is kind of the Bible of the sagas of the
kings. So all the kings of Norway are in our
mentioned in here, and Queen Osa is in one of
the earliest chapters. So Snorri was writing
in the early 1200s, like 1220, and Queen Osa
lived in the early 800s, which was the dawn of
the Viking Age. And she was the daughter of a
petty king. At that time, Norway was completely
divided into at least 30 warring kingdoms. In
fact, almost all of Europe was this way. England,
you know, almost every country you can think
of was this way. But there were all these petty
kingdoms and all these warlords who called themselves
kings or jarls. If they were subservient to a
king, then they were a jarl. If they had people
reporting to them, then they called themselves
a king. And her father was a petty king of Agder,
which is southern Norway. It's the southern part
of Norway. And his name was Harold Redbeard.
And the king was up above them in the north,
a little north of them in Vestfold was called
Gudred. And he had lost his wife. He had a grown
son and he had lost his wife. And he went to
Harold and said, I'd like to marry your daughter.
And nobody knows for sure what the story is.
but a lot of people think that Ossus said no
and so Harald said no and he didn't like that
very much so Gudrid gathered all his men and
launched an attack on Agder and supposedly their
headquarters was on the island of Tramøy which
is a very large island on the east coast of Norway
and they attacked at night and they defeated
Harald and his son Gerd, who's Osa's brother,
and they took Osa captive. So they took her back
to Bore, which is where he had his kingdom, and
she had a baby about a year later, and everything
seemed to be going just very well for Gudrid
until about a year later. And one night he was
very, very drunk and he was getting off a ship
and someone killed him with a spear. Oh, no.
Yes. And that person, his assassin was immediately
killed. And in the morning when it was light,
they discovered it was Queen Osa's shoe boy.
So she had apparently commanded him to kill her
husband. And he did. So. As soon as that happened,
she said, yes, it was done by my bidding. She
took her son and she got on a ship and went back
to her father's kingdom where she ruled it for
the next 18 years until he turned, her son was
18, so at least 17 years. But she ruled alone.
So in my book, I do change the facts a little
bit because I just could not have a main character
who would sacrifice a slave or a servant to kill
her husband. So in my book, she kills him herself.
And it goes through a long, long story about
how that came about. And she essentially kills
him in order to save her son. And she does go
back to Agder and she takes up the reins. And
then nothing else is heard of her. Her son was
half down the black who was the father of Harold
Fairhair. And those kings are historical. She's
historical as Harold Fairhair's grandmother.
We don't hear another word about her, even though
we know pretty sure that she ruled alone for
17, 18 years until her son was of age in the
Viking age. So I thought, wow, this is a very
interesting woman. I'm going to have to write
about her. So I have, at this point, after the
first book, which does follow history to a certain
point, I'm imagining in six, and now I'm working
on book seven, what life must have been like
for her. It's very, it's been very fun. I still
have not run out of stories about her. And I've
also brought in a lot of the mythology of the
time period, because they were definitely not
Christian. They meet Christians, but they are
not Christian. And they're not even close to
being converted at this point. Norway doesn't
convert until the 900s when um when they get
a Christian and the good and they only convert
for a little while yeah they all talk on and
they because the crops are bad and they go back
to their pagan ways so it's really around the
year 1000 that they become truly christian but
anyway osa lived in the early 800s we don't know
the exact year But there is a lot of belief that
she may be the person who's buried in the Osberg
burial ship. Which is one of the reasons they
call it the Osberg burial ship. And nobody knows
for sure who that person, there are two women
buried there. No men, just two women. And it
is the most resplendent ship burial in all of
Scandinavia. It's a beautifully carved ship with
30 oars. It's 70 feet long. It was loaded with
ornately carved slaves, a very, very old carved
cart that they believe may have belonged to a
sorceress or a priestess. There were tapestries
that show us, they're actually the only real
pictures that we know of that show us what people
might have looked like. Now they're very cartoonish.
but we can see how they dress. The men wore these,
they're almost like kilts, but they're divided,
wide -legged pants, and they are patterned. They
look like they have some very fancy woven patterns
on them. And the women all wear these shawls
that are also ornate, and they wear these long
dresses with trains. And there are over 20 shield
maidens portrayed on these weavings. And the
weavings date back to around, you know, 830,
somewhere in that time period. So we did show
them as having women in these tapestries are
portrayed as sorceresses, they're portrayed as
warriors, they're portrayed as shamans, there
are men and women portrayed as shamans and warriors.
They all wear, there's a man in a bear costume,
two men in bear costumes. There's two women in
boar costumes. They both are carrying weapons.
There's two shield walls of women as well as
shield walls of men. So we don't know what these
tapestries are telling a story, but we just don't
know what the story is yet. We may never know.
of a archaeologist, Marianne Bedeller, who's
from the University of Oslo. She wrote a book
called the Osberg Tapestries and she goes into
a lot of what we know about what they're telling
us in these tapestries. It's a fascinating read
and unfortunately you can't get it in the United
States. You can get it in the Scandinavian countries
and that's about it. So I've been able to borrow
a copy from interlibrary loan, but I haven't
been able to buy a copy, maybe someday. Anyway,
it's a fascinating, the Osberg ship is fascinating,
whether it was her burial or not. I, you know,
there's some quibbling about the dates, which
I understand, but to tell you the truth, I think
it really is her, because who else could it be?
There isn't anybody else in any stories that
it could be. So we don't know. That's a very
good point. Yeah, the Gokstad ship is probably
Olaf, who was Gudrid's son. And he became the
king of Vestfold once his father died. Or it
could also be Olaf's son. which is Roanvald the
Mountain High, and he became a mighty king as
well. And depending on the dating, it might be
his Olaf's son, not Olaf himself. Anyway, I love
archaeology. I can't really carry it away with
it. It's a very good point because history is
full of stories of kings, their lives, their
deaths, how they're remembered. good or bad,
like Ethelred, the unready, the unadvised, for
example. But nothing much about the queens, because
I know I've got a book on my bookshelf in the
lounge about Ethelred's mum. I know I've got
like Sharon Bennet Cotley, my previous guest
in a previous episode, she's written about the
women behind the Norman Conquest, so she looks
at William the Conqueror's wife, Matilda, and
of course, Harold Godwinson's and Harold Hadarada's
one or two wives, I think. um but yes in terms
of Scandinavian queens certainly kind of like
we considering we're literally across their next
-door neighbors via the sea we know zero zero
we know all about the king held hadrada and swain
forkford and king canute but nothing nothing
about the queens and of course the daughters
are always married off to anywhere else and that
we don't hear from them again which is a real
shame because they didn't write down their history
until after the year 1000 when they became Christian.
So by the time, you know, they didn't write much
history at all. And when Snorri Sturluson came
along, it was 1220 when he wrote this book. So
it was 400 years later. And they were thoroughly
Christianized. He was in Iceland. He wasn't Norwegian.
He was writing it for the Norwegian king. But
of course they left women out because by that
time women were kind of an afterthought in their
society. Things had changed drastically for women
after the year 1000. Just like it did in Anglo
-Saxon England, but Anglo -Saxon England was
Christianized long before the conquest. They
were not Roman Catholic to begin with. They wrote
a lot, but they also showed us women's rights
in Anglo -Saxon England were much different than
they were after the conquest. In fact, I wrote
a whole paper about that. We have a whole podcast
about that. We do. Do we have two episodes or
one? It was so long, it turned into two podcasts.
All your episodes are fascinating. I know when
I was preparing for my academic debut at the
Marie Symposium. I remembered it. It returns
to my brain, ladies and gentlemen, the Marie
Symposium at Stavanger, which was looking at
the medieval middle ages, relevance, retelling
and inspiration in the 20th and 21st century.
And I was, of course, I've always been curious
about the figures of Valkyries. And we will get
on to the mythology side. Don't worry, Davey
was in this as we're getting there. Of Valkyries,
and of course, one Valkyrie in particular, of
course, is Brunhild. of Sigurd and Fafnir fame.
And of course, I listened to your wonderful first
debut podcasts about Brynhildr and her different
interpretations in the sagas and the cortex.
Because of course, not many people know about
that source material. Most people think either
Richard Wagner in the Ring Cycle or the infamous
Bugs Bunny episode where the hunter is Sigurd
and Bunny dresses up as Brynhildr supposedly
and a horse with long plaits and a hat. The one
fascinating interpretation. But yes, it was interesting
learning more about her background and how she
appears as this kind of mythological character.
And then she magically transforms into kind of
like a maiden in a tower in a keep where he goes
and falls in love with her because his eagle
flies up to a tower or hawk, whatever it's flying
around. And it's kind of like, oh, Rapunzel very
much. That kind of romanticized, even kind of
back then when it was being recorded. But yes,
absolutely fascinating. And of course, Snorri
does have a lot of influence in terms of the
women and how they're portrayed in the mythology
side. So that is where we will go next. So my
goddess, Lifetrisen, because you can, well, you
can pick other female deities and beings. There's
Norns, there's Witches, there's Bulbers, there's
Giantesses. Other spirits galore is Freya. because
of course she's awesome. And the name is still
popular in the 21st century and I got this beautiful
book, Dawling Kindersley, their books are just
gorgeous. I found it in the children's section
to do with folklore and fairy tales and I said
it's coming home, it's coming home with me. And
the artwork is very simple but abstract. And
there's Freya and her twin brother Frey. But
there she is with her big cats. And they're not
house cats, Davey was in listeners. She never
had a chariot pulled by house cats. They were
fearsome felines. So in this one, it says Raya
is a goddess of the Vanir tribe. She is associated
with love, beauty, fertility and magic. She rules
over a place in the afterlife, a meadow called
Folkvanger and half of all warriors who die in
battle. go to her, which is why I think she's
awesome, because that's level pegging with Odin
there, folks. The rest stay with Odin, so considering
how power -hungry and paranoid Odin is just about
the end of everything, and not knowing enough,
you'd think he wouldn't give a soul away, but
no, he does, he gives half to her. Apparently
in this book, her parents are Njord and possibly
Nerthas. who I've not heard of before, and her
children, uh, Hanos and Josemi. Again, I don't
know much about them, so that'll be interesting
for me to look up. Um, she's got a few sacred
items. She's got her Brisinghamen amber necklace.
It's her most prized possession, kind of as Odin
covers knowledge, Freyja covers pretty things.
She has falcon feather cloak, which allows her
to change into a bird and fly all over the place,
and that gets used quite a lot in the myths.
not often by her but usually by the other gods
because they get in trouble and need her help.
She does have a chariot which is pulled by two
cats and I do refuse to think of them as house
cats, they won't be big cats, but she does also
have a giant boar called Hildesvini which means
battle swine. but she is most commonly described
as an enchantress. She is well practiced in magical
arts called sida, which is a very female, feminine
art form of magic. She teaches Odin spells and
potions and how to see into the features. So
again, Odin is gaining a lot from her. He doesn't
know it all, she does. And close to nature, Freyja
has animal familiars, or friga, including the
boar, Hildesvini, and there's and these help
or guide her. So that's one book that covers
her. It's a beautiful book, beautiful artwork.
It does actually have a nice couple of pages
about Bryn Hilda the Valkyrie as well. Another
book, which again is another print to read, is
this one. 50 goddesses, spirits and saints and
other female figures that have shaped belief.
And this is written by the wonderful Dr. Unina
Ramirez who champions Queen Emma. So I salute
her because Queen Emma for the win all the time.
And it's by the always awesome British Museum.
So again, beautiful institute. Didn't that author
write the book Femina? She did. I haven't read
it yet. It's on my bookshelf. huge chapters yeah
it was very good it's very good i recommended
it to one of my mum friends who teaches sociology
to a degree at university and she listened to
an audiobook and she just kept writing loads
of it into her seminars and that just because
it said it so well yeah i just need more time
to read that's what i need i know so this is
the wonderful two -bed spread on friar And again,
she has two cats. And again, I think they should
be a lot bigger, like lion sized. Yeah. I'm not
going to read all of it because there's a lot.
And it covers a few of her key legends and how
her different magical items have helped. But
it says she is no one's fool. Of all the women
in the Norse or Viking religion, Viking with
exclamation marks, Freya is one of the most important.
Wherever the Vikings reached on the extraordinary
long ships, the goddess and her stories traveled
with them. Symbolic of love, springtime, beauty,
gold, and magic, Freya is fearless, feisty, and
temperamental. She's also a woman at home on
the battlefield. She moves among the dead, and
her assistants, the feared Valkyries, choose
half of all the warriors killed in battle to
live with her in the field of the people, known
as Folkfang. Freya can travel across the nine
realms on her chariot, pelled by two dark grey
cats, or she rides a powerful boar -hill swinney.
She also has a cloak of falcon feathers that
allows her to fly. And again, it's just quite
a magnificent, almost buddhica -esque representation
of her there. But it's interesting that at least
Dr. Inina Ramirez suggests that she visited the
battlefield directly and that the Valkyries are
subservient to her as well as Odin, which is
interesting. Because that's one issue I've always
been curious about. It's like, how much agency
did the Valkyries have? Were they always following
Odin's orders, or were they kind of like always
wanting to do their own thing? Isn't there some
name for Freya that calls for the goddess of
the Valkyries? I can't remember. That sounds
right. Seems like I'd have to look it up. And
the stories that... And the stories that the
Valkyries have changed too. So there's that that
story in Ireland where the guy comes across those
12 women who are in that hut and they're using
the skulls as the warp weights and you know all
that kind of stuff. Perfect Halloween scene.
I need to add that to my list as well. But then
there's later stories where they're They fall
in love with humans and things like that. So
they changed. The stories have changed over time,
too. They do. I was remembering you were talking
about cats. And I don't know if you can see this
picture or not, but this is the stern of the
cart on the Osberg burial ship. And it's carved
with cats. They're all cats. That's amazing.
Some of them are wiping their little kitty eyes.
We don't know what it was. We think it has something
to do with Freya and maybe one of the women in
the burial was a priestess of Freya. But this
heart was very old. It was quite a bit older
than the ship. So anyway, the cat thing just
made me think of that. It's such an amazing,
the wagon itself, it's not very big, but it's
elaborately carved. That's a fascinating connection.
Thank you for sharing. I've heard, of course,
of the Osberg burial, but I've never really read
that much into it, but it's just always sounded
fascinating. I'd love to get to see any of it
in the actual museum. I think it's still in one
of the museums. Is it in Oslo? Right now it's
in storage because they're building a new museum
for it. Oh, yes, they are, aren't they? Yeah,
it'll open in 2027. And the reason they're building
a new museum is that the vibration from people's
footsteps was starting to make it disintegrate.
Blimey. That and the Goxtead ship as well. So
they had to, that's the reason they absolutely
had to make a new museum, a new place for it.
So. Wow, that is fragile. Yeah, well they all
the I was just watching a special on on it and
they The wood had been preserved with alum on
the ship and all the things that came off of
it And if you you can crumble it, it's barely
holding together So it's very very fragile. I
mean when you realize it's you know more than
1200 years old and I just feel really I'm fortunate
that I've seen it three times. Maybe I'll make
it back for 2027. That would be great. We'll
have to make a group trip, ladies. We'll have
to make a group trip because I remember being
at the Yelvika Festival Symposium, the Richard
Hall Symposium. as it's known and I remember
the director of the museum coming and talking
to us about the plans and showing us the concept
art and and how it's still keeping the cross
section but they're just making a big curve and
interior looked amazing and I oh I was like I'm
glad it's happening I'm glad it's happening I'm
glad COVID and pandemic and finances haven't
stopped it. During COVID they did put a moratorium
on the finances and now it's back up. But it
was pretty dire there during the during the pandemic.
It was a really dire situation. Didn't they do
a fundraiser? I think I remember them doing a
fundraiser But there is a they have a facebook
page and every now and then they'll post an update
on there so I'll have to go look better. I will
try and add the link in the description below
dear viewers once this video goes live Okay,
but yes, she is my favorite character when I
used to double in creative writing I distinctly
remember writing a particular scene where she
was walking around the battlefield and Odin was
choosing who he wanted and I took the most delight
in having her kind of like lick some blood off.
of what we saw and just kind of I look at it
like kind of like seductively naughtily, oh I
think I'll have this one kind of thing just to
make it kind of seem a bit darker a bit more
almost like more powerful but in a naughty way.
It didn't go very far that scene at all and I
just had fun writing it but the fact that she
a is not from the Azir tribe she is an outsider
to Odin in his particular clan but also she's
been in reinterpreted and re -presented in so
many different ways in different mediums in our
current century. Of course the cat thing is still
very much there, everyone matches Freya instantly
equals cats. I know when I played the... Assassin's
Creed Vikings Valhalla history tour which is
a lovely kind of like play through without the
combat and the stealth and the stabby stabby
you just kind of like learn and role play through
history both on the north side and as a Christian
monk which was an interesting mix. You do eventually
find your way to Valhalla sorry spoilers and
you do meet Freya and she's there carving turnips.
instead of pumpkins, which was an interesting
thing. And she's surrounded by huge giant fluffy
cats, which you can reach down and pet in character,
which is the story. But she seems more like kind
of like a nice innkeeper of a woman, more than
kind of like a fierce goddess who can do magic
or anything. So she was very tamed down in that
representation. But she's... I know there's been
a recent series called Twilight of the Gods with
a certain Zack Snyder involved on Netflix and
Freya isn't that one. She's got very strong veneer
ties and she's definitely got prophetic abilities
which she claims to have given up when she was
taken by ransom and then married to Odin to end
the Isaiah veneer war. They've twisted it a little
bit. There's no Freya, there's just Odin and
Freya. and Valkyries as well but they don't seem
to have any connection to her either. But yes,
so she's been an interesting one to follow and
of course Freyja's name is still popular in today's
sculpture. I did want to name my daughter that
but my husband said no because you like Vikings
and just no, so. Naomi it is, so a bit of Greek
-ness instead of Norse -ness. But yes, I just
think Unfortunately, because Snorri himself wrote
all these sagas, he was choosing or not choosing
what to write down and nearly all the books I've
read, including like these two, they both say
to some degree that there were probably a lot
more sagas or legends about the Norse female
spirits and goddesses or even giantesses, but
they have been lost because they were not chosen
to be written down. They were not part of what
Snorri wanted to present in his Poetic and Prose
Edda and that kind of thing. So yeah, so she's
my candidate for a good figure of Norse mythology
to look for if you're looking for a powerful
woman. Because she was, I think. Totally. So
Kim, who is your choice? Can I plug one of my
books that has Freya and Valkyries in it? It's
called A Deal with Odin. I love that book. Oh,
thanks. It's a very short book, so it's quick
and easy. It's really fun. Freya has a cameo
in it, and then there's a few valkyries, so yes.
Oh, oh, and can I push one more thing? Since
you mentioned Odin, I have a short story in an
anthology that just came out. It just came out
in the UK, I don't know when it came out in the
UK. It's coming out in the US tomorrow. It's
going to be released tomorrow. Oh, congratulations.
That's great. Thanks. It's by Flame Tree Publishing.
And it's an anthology devoted to Odin. And it's
all stories about Odin. They have some beautiful
books. And I found this one at Barnes and Noble.
Oh, my gosh. This is what they're. They are beautiful.
Wow. So what's the title of the anthology, Kim?
It's just called Odin. Keep it simple and short.
I will look it up. I will find the link and it'll
be down below and I personally will add it to
my Christmas wish list. I just get my husband
to buy me more books that he then can't fit anywhere
because I don't have a library. You have to get
him to buy you a library to go with it. I wish
he could buy me a bigger house so I could have
my own little Becky cave as I keep wanting to
call it. just have all my Norse books out and
all my Norse art and just not have curtains or
a very cramped bookcase as a backdrop. But anyway,
dear viewers, we do what we can. So here we are.
So Kim, what's your choice? I do love Freya.
I decided to, I chose Skathi. Maybe because she's
not her. goddess. She's a she's a Jotun and who
married just like Freya was not originally an
Aesir goddess. Skathi is a Jotun and marries
into the Aesir gods. So she is often she's usually
associated with winter. Sometimes she's called
the snowshoe goddess and she's known for loving
like the high snowy mountains and she's usually
depicted on skis and hunting with like a bow
and arrow. And she loves her mountain home of
Thrimheim, which means thunder home. So I think
that's very cool. So, and actually her name means
scab. So it's the same. So it's very similar
to our English words. Interesting. Yes. And as
her name implies, Scathi is no. push over. She's
pretty fierce. So she is the daughter of Thiazi
and he was the Jotun who kidnapped the goddess
Idun and stole the Apples of Immortality. With
Loki's help. And you mentioned Freya's falcon
cloak. Well, Loki uses that to go and rescue
Edun and get those apples back because without
their apples of immortality the gods and goddesses
were all dying. Yep, and so Yahtzee found he
discovered that Loki had stolen Edun back and
as he passed over the walls of Asgard the gods
killed him. So if there's one thing I think we
all know that if you kill a loved one in the
Norse world that's not going to go unchallenged
by their family members. So scathe wanted revenge
for her father's death so she Put on her helmet
and coat of mail and taking all her weapons of
war set out for Asgard to avenge her father No,
but the gods did not want to spill blood in Asgard
and I also think they were a little intimidated
by her And although she was far outnumbered and
Thor was there and everything, they determined
to reconcile with her instead. And they offered
that she could marry one of the gods, but she
could only choose them by looking at their feet.
So the male gods all lined up behind a curtain
with only their feet showing. And since Scottie
is intelligent, she... chose the one who had
the cleanest, most attractive feet. Assuming
that it was the god Baldr who was particularly
beautiful. But it was not Baldr. You just need
Scylla Black and then it would have been Norse
Blondite. It just didn't happen, unfortunately.
That'd be a funny story. Oh my goodness. Those
lovely feet belonged to the sea god Myord, who
was Freya and Freya's father. And I guess maybe
being a sea god means you have clean feet. You
must be in the water a lot. All the minerals
in the water. Yeah. But before she would leave
Asgard with her new husband, she had one more
condition for the Aesir. They had to make her
laugh. Like you obviously know it's coming because
this is like it's very strange To make scat the
laugh Loki He fetched a rope and a billy goat
and already this is kind of bizarre He tied one
end of the rope to the goats beard and one to
his own testicles And they proceeded to have
a tug -of -war and I know. So they tugged and
they tugged and they were both squealing in pain
until Loki fell over and fell into Scotty's lap.
And that made her laugh, which would make me
laugh too. So anyway, so I guess all was well.
The conditions were met. She chose her husband
and they made her laugh. And then Odin threw
her father's eyes into the sky where they became
two stars. I kind of like that. I kind of like
that she was able to look up in the sky and see
her father's eyes. But unfortunately, it seems
like I have this a lot. There's no happy ending.
Scotty and Yord, they didn't have a happy marriage.
He was a sea god and she was a Jotun of the snow
and the mountains. But they did, they gave it
a try. Njord had a hall that was by the sea and
Skathi had her hall in the mountains. And there
were wolves at the mountains and seagulls at
the sea and yeah, lots of issues. But they agreed
to try something. They would live in Thrimheim
for nine nights. in Yord's hall for three nights.
And then after the nine nights were over, Yord
had had enough of the cold and the snow and the
wolves howling outside the hall. He said that
the mountains were hateful to him and the howling
of wolves sounded ugly. He was more used to the
song of swans. So he wasn't happy. So then they
moved to... His hall by the sea and now scotty
wasn't happy She couldn't sleep because the goals
were screeching and the sea kept her awake So
they they couldn't agree on a marital abode So
they decided they would just live separately
He would stay in his place by the sea and she'd
go up to the mountains and they never lived together
again But it actually it seems like a pretty
Amicable split. Amicable split, especially considering
how the Norse gods could be. And she did become
incorporated into the Aesir family, and then
she treated Njord's children, Freya and Freyr,
as if they were her own. But then Scathi has
one more part to play in the mythology. Oh, Johanna
has that wicked laugh. I'm waiting for this.
So in the poem, but... We just talked about it
not too long ago. I know. It's a good... So in
the Lokasenna, and this is a poem, I think it
should be subtitled, Loki behaving badly, because
he killed a servant and he insulted all of the
gods and goddesses in attendance, including Skapi.
So they ended up punishing Loki Ultimately not
after this Eventually, he killed the god Balder
or he arranged for Baldur's he was responsible
to kill Balder and then Loki fled and the other
gods caught up with him and their punishment
which was pretty gruesome is they bound him with
the entrails of his own son So that's that's
much more Norse like than everybody getting along.
And Scotty is the one who she dangled a serpent
over Loki's head that drips poison onto his face.
So she got her revenge for him insulting her.
I'm sure he Claim she slept with everybody or
something like oh, yeah that was his go -to Who
was was basically slut -jamming every woman in
the hall? so yeah, so Nobody nobody gets away
with killing her father or insulting him. So
yeah, so she's pretty she's pretty awesome I
love her. Yeah, have either of you read and The
Witch's Heart by Genevieve Cornish. That's on
my to -be -read list. You'll like the Scarlett
in that book. She fits the description and the
imagery in the poetic scenes that you've described
really, really well. Isn't that one about Angerboda?
It is, but Scarlett also features in it. That's
one of her friends, one of Angerboda's girlfriends.
Yes, that's Scottie. Speaking of Angerboda, I'm
talking about hell. That's the one I chose, the
person I chose. She's also a Yoten. She's not
a goddess. She's mentioned in the prose Edda
Gylfaginning and the poetic Edda Volusba. as
well as she's mentioned in passing in quite a
few poems and sagas, usually as a kenning or
something. But she was the daughter of two Jotuns,
Loki and Angerboda. And contrary to popular belief,
Loki was not a god, he was a Jotun, but he was
Odin's blood brother. And that's how he got his
entree into Asgard. And Loki also had And she
held a little bowl over Loki's head when the
serpent was dripping poison. To keep the poison
off of his head. But every now and then she had
to empty the cup when it got full. And then Loki
would scream until she came back. Anyway, Angerboda
was... his wife, his Jotun wife, and she lived
in Jotunheim, and they had three children. Her
name, Angerboda, is she who offers sorrow. That's
what her name means. So their children were Fenrir
the wolf, Jormungandr, who is the world serpent,
and their daughter is Hel. So the gods found
a prophecy that told them that Loki's brood would
cause great mischief and disaster would arise
from them. Well, they got a little worried. So
one day when Angerboda was away, they went into
her hall in Jotunheim and kidnapped her children
and took them to Odin. Odin cast. Jörmungandr
into the sea where he, of course, became the
world's servant. And they tried to bind Fenrir,
but it took quite a bit of chewing. They finally
had the dwarves make a fetter made of the sound
of a cat walking, the breath of a fish, and the
hair from a woman's beard. And that finally did
the trick, although Tyr did lose his hand. Fenrir
did his handoff in revenge. And Hel was cast
into Niflheim, which is behind the third root
of Yggdrasil. And she was given charge of all
the dead sent to her, which is namely those who
do not die in battle, but die of sickness and
old age. So I'm going to read a little passage,
a description of Hel and her home. from my book,
The Queen of Hell, which is wonderful. Thank
you. Because I did a lot of research to come
up with this description. So I feel pretty confident
in it. So Osa and her vulva hide are approaching
Hell's home because they're trying to save her
people from a plague. They had covered a lot
of ground quickly. and now in the distance a
storm cloud hovered over the roof of a great
hall, sending sleet down upon the thatched roof.
El Houdiner, Hell's Hall, said Hyde. As they
drew near, Osa could see that the cloud sat stationary
over the hall. They walked into the storm, blinded
by sleet that stung like needles, struggling
against a headwind that seemed determined to
blow them away from their goal. By the time they
fought their way to the door, they were soaking
wet and shivering. Osa brushed the sleet from
her eyes and the door was twice as tall as she
was. It was made of oak, intricately carved with
twining beasts whose eyes were red jewels. The
creatures seemed to writhe and flick their tongues
at her. Hyde raised her iron staff and pounded
on the door, sending the beasts scattering through
the cracks. Nothing happened. Hyde pounded again,
uttering spells that demanded entrance. They
seemed to do the trick where the door creaked
open to reveal a dim interior. In the gloomy
recesses, something moved. A voice came, faint
as the groan of a dying man. Who knocks on my
lady's door? I am the vulva Hyde and with me
is Osa, Queen of Agder. Osa shivered at the compelling,
gallder tones in the sorceress's voice. Do not
hinder us. We have urgent business with your
lady. My lady sees no one, moaned the voice.
The wind shrieked at their backs as if trying
to tear them from the doorway. Let us pass or
I will curse you, said Hyde. A laugh like a rusty
hinge emanated from the shadows. I fear no curses.
Nothing worse could be done to me than to be
doomed to stay here until Ragnarok. Tides seem
to grow, her shadow looming in the darkness.
I have powers of which you do not know. I can
curse you in ways you have never imagined. Her
voice resonated into the room. You will let us
pass. After a long pause, a sigh escaped the
shadows. Very well, witch. Enter if you dare.
Osa stepped forward, but Hyde flung out her staff
and blocked her way. Osa looked down and gasped.
Beneath her feet younged a vast pit, nearly invisible
in the gloom. It stretched the width of the entry,
so deep she could not see the bottom. Beyond
the pit came a chuckle. Mind the gap. Follow
Nisa. Follow Nisa's light. I had to put that
in there. From the underground in London. Follow
me, said Hyde. Gathering her robes in one hand,
she sprang across the pit. Osa looked into the
depths and quailed, but if the sorceress could
make the jump, so could she. She took a deep
breath and launched herself into the air. She
fairly flew across the chasm, landing beside
the vulva. Come, said Hyde. With dread in her
heart, Osa turned and followed the sorceress
into the dim interior. The air was thin and smelled
of rotting things. The servant who had greeted
them materialized from the gloom a look of disappointment
on his face. He was thin as a skeleton and gray
as the walls. His hair hung in stringy hanks.
His jowls sagged and he wore a robe of faded
rags. He carried an iron staff. I am called Ganglati.
Follow me. Ganglati means lazy man. Ganglati
led them through the entryway into another open
door bound with brass and swarming with carved
serpents. He struck the door as Hyde had done
and the beast scattered. Then he pushed the door
open and stood aside. Within a long fire blazed,
casting a dull light, but the room was frigid.
Icy water dripped from the thatch. and snow covered
the rushes on the floor. If anything, it was
colder inside than out. The ceiling seemed to
writhe, and as she stared upwards, Osa saw that
the roof was thatched with living serpents woven
together. It was their venom that dripped, hitting
the frozen floor with a sizzle. The benches lining
the wall were empty, but the far end of the hall,
there was a high seat that was occupied. A tall
woman, richly dressed, sat there. At her feet
lay an enormous wolf, twice the size of those
who had chased them through the iron forest.
He was bound by what appeared to be a silk ribbon
to a boulder, sunk into the floor as if it had
been hurled there by a mighty force. Osa sucked
in her breath, and the wolf eyed them, slathering.
Beside him sat the most beautiful man Osa had
ever seen. This is Baldwin. His golden hair shown
in his smile lit the gloom and from his arms
hung golden chains. The woman gazed at him in
adoration. In profile, the woman's face was hidden
by her long dark hair. She turned her head toward
them as they entered and Osa gasped. One side
of her face was young and beautiful, the other
a rotting corpse. A shade of blue so dark that
it was almost black. So that's, those are all
descriptions taken from the sagas and from the
poems. Beautiful. Thank you very much. That was
a real treat. It was fun. That was very, that's
probably the most fun to write of any of the
things that I've, that I've ever, uh, ever written.
So, um, hell, uh, in the poem Balder's Dream,
Odin rides sleep near to hell to find out why
his son is having these nightmares and he finds
out that from a vulva who's buried near hell's
gates that all of hell is preparing to receive
Balder so he knows his son is going to die and
Frigg his mother Balder's mother asks every everything
in the world to swear that they won't harm her
son and they all do except for the mistletoe
which is just a little thing and too young to
swear an oath. So that is what Loki uses to trick
Baldr's brother into killing him. And I won't
go into that whole sad story, but Hel gets Baldr.
And Baldr's other brother rides on Sleipnir to
beg Hel to give his brother back to the gods.
And she says, well, I will as long as everything
living or dead in all the nine worlds swear that
they would weep for him. And so it goes out and
everything in all the worlds weeps for Balder
except one old Jotun woman who says, let hell
hold what she has. And some think that may be
Loki. So the prophecy that the Essere gods feared
does come true and at Ragnarok. And Ragnarok
plays a major role of leading the armies of hell
against the Essere. Her brothers take care of
Odin and Thor. And there is that's the end of
the world. I think that's, that's also the end
of hell. They don't really say what happens to
her. I know, Norman and Thor fight and they kill
each other basically. Thor kills the World Serpent,
but the World Serpent has bitten Thor so he's
poisoned and he goes nine steps and he dies.
Ben Rear swallows Odin. And Loki sails the ship
made of fingernails. I can't pronounce it right.
Well, it's interesting because... I'm not going
to talk about it too much but Genevieve Kornaszczak
addresses that anomaly of what happens to hell
at the end of all things in an interesting way
I think. Because I guess she's a goddess that
we just know the bare bones and the basics of
her and of course she's, we know she's described
as half a corpse but no one knows, kind of like
anatomic, can't say the word. her anatomy whether
it's straight down the middle or whether it's
just at the waist. I've always been curious about
those who interpret that as meaning at the waist
or maybe like from her legs or so with that she
couldn't walk kind of like representing disability.
Again it's a thing that's always been fascinating
me about the general hall panting that none of
them are perfect by any means I mean they all
need to eat fruit to stay young and of course
Tia loses her hand there's her mod the blind
um Odin has one eye so yeah I mean Sif loses
a hair she needs a wig but that was Loki so can't
really blame it on natural causes um but yes
there's just so many um and of course Hel does
have one companion because isn't there a female
giantess that guards the gate to prevent the
the dead going back to the living yeah I thought
that was interesting not a male I mean, there
is a dog as well. She just have a dog, I believe,
somewhere down the hill. That's it. They're all
I put them all in my story. It's a long journey
to hell. Very interesting story. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, have either of you read The Monstrous
Child by Francesca Simon? No. That's an interesting
book. It's written for children, but I'd definitely
say more of a teenager type because she herself
is a teenager. And this whole series of our Holocaust
conversations started with me having a beautiful
conversation with her, Francesca Simon and Joanne
Harrison. Professor Caroline Larrington and it
was not long after The Monstrous Child had actually
been transformed into an opera and performed
in London and reserved great reviews but it's
all told from Hell's perspective and oh yes it's
it's fascinating it's an interesting read narratively
it's not quite diary -esque, but it's all kind
of like, oh I did this and then I did that and
I can't believe they've done this to me. And
you really get a lot of teenage fury coming through
and in just as I get the words, like how dare
they put me down here and interesting scenes
when her father turns up and exploring that dynamic
of father and daughter relationship because a
lot of the time those two characters are met
in all the fiction I've read, it's not been a
happy father daughter relationship at all. But
interestingly enough, the Twilight of the Gods
series on Netflix with the infamous Zack Snyder's
influence, although we only directed two episodes
and there's eight. Hell does play a bit more
of a role and she's definitely more supportive
of her father and her father is... definitely
being more of a father figure in the series without
spoiling too much. It comes out that he's quite
protective of his daughters and indeed his son
because of course he knows what's going to happen
to them as well as Odin and as much as he doesn't
want to see Odin fight and kill them he doesn't
want them to fight and kill Odin unless they
can kill Odin and get away with it kind of thing
but yes it's it's an interesting angle that I
never thought I'd see come out regarding Loki
being kind of either kind of like the anti -hero
or the kind of the underdog or just the general
trickster that everyone likes because he's the
trickster but it was interesting the depiction
of Hel she also has horns which I'm not quite
keen on but I'll forgive them their artistic
license because nearly all interpretations have
artistic license because we don't have pictures
of what these gods looked like we just have these
words which themselves are several hundred years
old after they were first spoken and that and
that kind of thing so that that's really interesting
so we've had like Freya the goddess of enjoying
life very much because she's always been associated
with carnal love and sex and lust and sexual
activity. I mean, she's always accused of having
affairs with all the gods, but she doesn't really.
She has a husband, but she kind of like weeps
for him because he always goes off without her.
I can't remember his name. She did sleep with
all the dwarves. His name is Odd. She did do
the dwarves. That's it. She did do the dwarves.
But she got her sing -a -man for it. She got
something out of it, yeah. But yeah, it's interesting.
And of course, so we've had Freya, Hell, and
then we've had, oh my gosh, my memory. Where
is it going tonight? Skathy. Skathy, sorry, I
apologize. I've forgotten things both of you
said, and I am genuine in listening. I do apologize.
But it's kind of late where you are. It is. I
mean, that's very kind of you to blame it on
the time, but my memory is scattered most of
the time. My husband would attest to that. I'm
often speaking to him and he'll go, can you say
that again a bit in English? Because I literally
cannot speak English. But I generally just get
too excited about all these things. But yes,
all the books and I definitely will be reading
both of your books hopefully come Christmas.
I know I've definitely got Kim's books on my
Kindle, I just need to get yours, Johanna's.
And then I'm set, I just need time to read. Time
to read and to review. But is there anything
else you'd like to discuss or talk about or let
viewers and readers know about women, whether
it's in the Viking history or the mythology,
or even kind of what brought you to, well, we
understand that, you know, Hannah, you wrote
about Queen Aysa because she's such a remarkable
woman and so very little is known about her and
she needs more of a high profile, which is truly
justified. But what brought you to writing about
your female protagonist, Kim? if you don't mind
me asking. Um I was more drawn to, well one I
was interested in that concept of a peace weaver
of a woman who was married for peace and so I
did that but I was also I wanted to explore uh
like another side of these Viking warriors. So
my male main character loves his family, loves
his children and stuff, so he can compartmentalize
his life. So he can be a vicious warrior on one
hand and be a loving father on the other. Anyway,
I just kind of wanted another view of that too,
of masculinity. And yeah, I was just really fascinated
with the idea of the peace weaver and the peacemaker
and how that would work and the ties between
family and what would make somebody choose to
do that, those kinds of things. Very interesting.
Well, I look forward to reading it once I get
hold of my Kindle and sit down and can read.
Now, in terms of your own podcast, Your Maiden,
Women of the North's World, what interesting
topics have you got coming up that listeners
and readers of this episode may look forward
to when they click over and join your podcast?
So let's see, this is November in December. It's
Octavia, right? It's Octavia Randolph, the author
Octavia Randolph. She wrote The Circle of Cairdwen.
Oh, not heard, heard of her. and that's up to
12 books i believe that's wow wow and we just
recently in october we had an interview with
the archaeologist maryann moan and we had a really
interesting discussion about gender archaeology
and we even had a little bit about the victorians
and how they influenced a lot of archaeology
yeah so And also just how so many things have
over the centuries have been interpreted to leave
women out. And now archeology is starting to
put women back in the picture. And they're finding
ways to do that. So that made it very, very interesting.
That was the October 2024 episode. And then we
have Nancy Marie Brown coming, right? Yep. Oh,
I think I'm halfway through her book. I've read
almost all her books. I found out there's one
book of hers I haven't read yet. The first one
about the horse, but otherwise I've read all
her books, so very interesting. I've read several
of them. Yeah. Yes. Would you mind just showcasing
her wonderful book, Johanna? Mine's hidden a
room away, but I know you've got to. This is
definitely my favorite one right here. The real
Valkyrie. But she's written, she started out,
What really caught my interest was The Far Traveler,
which is about another real woman, Gudrid, who
also sailed to Greenland and she sailed to America,
along with Frasier. And we've done some episodes
on her too. So that was one of her earlier books.
That's the first book I read of hers. And then
I - Yeah, me too. All her other books, because
she's a very good writer as well. That's one
thing I've liked about her book, The Real Valkyrie,
The Secret History of Shieldmaidens and Maury
Women. It's got a nice narrative aspect to it
which helps those who aren't used to reading
on fiction kind of get immersed and then they
see the facts behind what they're seeing. It's
what drew me really well into... Queen Emma and
the Vikings by Harriet O 'Brien about Emma of
Normandy that kind of painted a beautiful picture
of kind of like a teenage girl on a boat sailing
to England to marry a man she never met who's
older than her dad and I thought oh my gosh that's
a tragic and yet it happened and yet she did
remarkably well out of it. So yes, I'll put the
link and the title to any of the books that you'd
like to recommend and of course I will definitely
say Views and listeners, go check out these ladies
wonderful podcasts, Chill Maiden, Women of the
North's World. Start from episode one, go all
the way to the latest one. They cover so many
topics. I don't know how you guys find the time
to research and then record it all. I'm just
about to find time to squeeze in my little rants
of fandom and craziness. And I'm so glad that
you both wanted and are happy to be part of my
joyride on YouTube. just talking about NOS stuff
because I have no expertise. I'm just a crazy
consumer basically. Well, it's fun. Thank you
for having us. That's great. Yes. Thank you.
It's been really wonderful talking to you both.
So thank you both again. Check out their podcast,
everyone. The books will be down in the links
below. And hopefully we will see you again for
episode 10, which is set to record in December.
and I have an interesting and exciting fantasy
author joining called Fyldeholde Colt. She wrote
the Hanged God trilogy and the first one is called
Northern Wrath. It's with a bit of history but
definitely a big dose of what I call Norse fantasy,
which is mythology and magic and everything in
between. and she's got some interesting female
characters going on including giants as well
as shield maidens because she allows all the
women in her universe to be equal warriors as
long as the men and yes that's become hopefully
it'll debut in december so i do hope dear viewers
and listeners you will join me again then for
another episode of Valhalla conversations please
hit subscribe below thank you very much