everyone, dear viewers and listeners and watchers
of my humble channel at Soulchaser Becky, welcome
to episode 8 of Valhalla Conversations, and the
rather long title of Every Man Wants to be a
King but Leif, which is how I'm summarizing the
entire Valhalla season 3, which is in some ways
sad that it's the final season because they've
left a lot of things untied at the end, after
tangling them all up, marvellous well, and I'm
delighted to say that, almost like... reuniting
a coven of witches, I have my three favourite
guests to discuss this series. Patricia Bracewell
from America, Sharon Bennett Connolly and of
course, Justin Hill. They're all historic. All
authors of wonderful books. I have Patricia's
there. I have Justin's there. I haven't yet got
yours, Sharon. Apologies. It is on my Christmas
list. And I would have had Justin Hill's also
wonderful. Have Harold Harad a book, Viking Fight,
on my shelf, but it's on the top shelf where
all the big spiders are living. So it's just
he's staying there to guard me from spiders.
So apologies, Justin. But there's another title
of Harold Harad. And of course, Canute, because...
I've got lots of non -fiction books on Canute
because he is indeed a wonderful character to
learn about, especially if you've been watching
the Vikings Valhalla series which hopefully you
will have done because we are going to be talking
about season three, the final season, and there
will be spoilers. Spoilers everyone, have you
heard? Spoilers? Right, good. You either carry
on or you go away and watch it and then come
back, okay? Right, we'll see you either along
or later. Okay, so... I've given you all the
title of this episode and we will be leading
it with Justin. We've given him a summary of
events to date kind of thing. Giving him snapshots
of what's been happening because Justin's lucky
that he hasn't been following it as we have but
he knows what really happened compared to what
the series shows which is why Justin is a very
wise fellow of our group. So ladies, what do
you think of my title summary of season three
that every man wants to be a king? or indeed
woman, with Freydis being a leader of sorts,
but Leif being the old one out. Do you think
that's rather accurate, or would you sum it in
a different way? No, I think that's fairly accurate.
I think, although man is probably not, because
even Harthacanute, who appears as a, what, six
-year -old, has decided he's going to be king
anyway. I think that's right and it's set up
in the very first episode when the Pope asks
Knut who his heir is going to be and Knut doesn't
have an answer and we don't hear the answer until
episode seven but people are they're jockeying
all the way through. Although the annoying thing
is that Swain Forkbeard wants to be Canute Air
and yet Forkbeard has been dead for 20 years.
Yeah, we'll have to talk about the timeline,
which as far as I'm concerned, they took the
timeline, scrunched it up into a ball and threw
it away. Yeah, it's pretty much Doctor Who time,
Doctor Who time where everything is possible.
It's not a completely alternative timeline to
what actually happened. I get the impression
with Swain that they've forgot to kill him off
in the first season and so they might as well
keep him alive. Why do you think they've changed
the timeline so profoundly? I don't know why
they did. There was no reason to. That's what
gets me. Although there was in a way because
there are certain people who are like William
the Conqueror, although he's only Duke William
at this point. is seven at the time that Canute
dies in 1035. And yet he's, what, about 14 or
15 in the series? Yeah, definite teenager. So
they've made him a bit older in order to have
him in the program. They did the same with Harold.
They did the same with Harold Hadrata. I mean,
he was much, much younger. So basically, what
they're trying to do, I think, is have this contention
for the English throne, the Danish throne, the
Norse throne. And they're bringing all the players
over 50 years together at one time. Yeah. I believe
when it first was first announced, the whole
gig was that we're going to take everyone all
the way to 1066 and have an end at that point.
And they didn't. quite get there, for various
reasons, because of time and characters being
in different locations. I mean, we've got no
idea. I mean, I don't think Leaf went all the
way to the east and then go all the way west,
but... No, and isn't it something like 1002 that
he was supposed to have discovered America? In
which case, what's he still doing around in 1035
when commute dies? Yeah, is... There's a lot
to unpack. But starting off with episode one.
Sorry, clear. It makes my view look historically
accurate. Thinking of episode one where Knut
and Emma are meeting the Pope in Rome, in the
Vatican, he did genuinely go and meet the Pope.
We would like to clarify that for all viewers
watching and listening that he did really meet
the Pope. He was an English king of Norse descent,
and he did meet the Pope, which is quite a milestone.
Not many kings back then could say that. I mean,
Alfred the Great did meet the Pope, but he was
very, very young, very young. He never went back
after he got older and became king, I don't think.
So I still think that was a nice touch. It was
something that happened in the 11th century.
Macbeth also went to Rome. Yes. So it was something
that they all did in that time and what I found
interesting or rather annoying was that they
had him meet the pope but what he did whilst
he was in Rome was arrange the marriage of his
daughter to the Holy Roman Emperor and yet they
didn't include that bit at all. He was there
for the coronation of the emperor and really
his negotiations were with the emperor and also
with the pope realistically. And so, yes, they
talk about how the Pope was going to give him
some land. Well, it really wasn't the Pope. It
was the Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, Conrad
II, who gave him land in Denmark in return for
his help with the Poles who were attacking Germany
at the time. So it was very complicated. And
they just boiled it down to, let's have him talk
to the Pope. And I don't know, Sharon, what really
bothered me was the gift that they gave the Pope.
Oh yes. A head in a box. A head in a box. And
apparently they're giving Emma the credit for
suggesting that. They make a very, very creepy
Emma. And the head in the box was the Pope's
liaison. He was the Pope's bishop. The Pope would
not have appreciated his bishop's head being
cut off, even if he didn't like the bloke. you
know, there's that tech against the church thing
that they really don't like. I think they were
trying to do an interesting setup between Emma's
more extreme motives of manipulation versus Godwin
who basically kept dropping him bags of gold
in his hand saying oh please please let Canute
come and see the Pope again he didn't mean to
throw a hissy fit he's just he's just a North
King he's just a North King just blaming it all
on his heritage when some people might felt quite
entitled as a king because of course he wasn't
a Christian from birth he did have well in the
series it depicts him having alternative faith
before becoming the King of England So he probably
did not, suitable to the character at least in
this series, have respect for the Pope as Godwin
and Emma did, coming from a raised up Christian
background, kind of thing. So Godwin accompanies
him to Rome, does he? Yeah, Godwin translates
for them in Latin at points, although Godwin
didn't know about the head in the casket until
it was opened. Yeah, because the interesting
thing is that You know, when Canute goes through
him, he leaves Godwin in charge as regent, which
kind of shows two things. One, the trust which
he parts with Godwin, but also how secure he
feels in England to leave it behind and go on
pilgrimage. What he did not do was take both
Emma and Godwin. I mean, you'd have to leave
one of them at least behind. And there is the
question of you know, they're throwing out the
idea that Emma went with him to Rome. Could she
have gone to Rome? Nothing in history indicates
that she did. On the other hand, nothing in history
really covers what the women were doing. So I
was, yes, I was okay with her being in Rome with
him, but not with both of them. Somebody had
to be holding the fork back. back in England.
Yeah, what do you think? My hunch would be that
Emma did go to Rome. Mine would be as well. She's
going to in my book. Yeah, I can't see Emma letting
Cnut go without her. Yeah, exactly. Well, it
was the same with Macbeth. His wife, Lady Macbeth
Gruach, went with him. Did she? I mean, this
is such, visiting Rome and visiting the Pope
and the Emperor is such a big thing. You know,
you would take your wife. And going as a married
king would no doubt give you some added respect
in Rome as well, by doing it for the Christian
rites, which Canute and Emma, as far as we know,
did do. Well, that was the other thing, wasn't
it? Emma was seen as Canute's link to England.
and as a strength to Canute so he's going to
show her off especially if you're going to arrange
the marriage of your daughter by Emma with the
Emperor while you're there. You want to show
the Emperor the lineage that your daughter comes
from on both sides and especially you know Emma
of Normandy and the links with the Normans as
well as the English and you know she was such
an influential character in her own right. We're
going to show her off. and of course the Normans
had you know very strong links with the Papacy
you know going forward and links with the Mediterranean
as well so yeah I can't imagine her staying behind.
I'm just saying like the links with Normandy
because Italy at that time especially southern
Italy the Normans were down there fighting weren't
they so they were taking over Sicily and places
like that so to have that link with Emma, you're
going to need it. I was also interested in the
way they gowned Emma and Knut. They looked quite
Russian. I mean, Knut looked like Ivan the Terrible
coming in there and Emma was gowned very, very
Russian, high medieval Russian. I thought that
was really quite interesting. It kind of is giving
us that link of the Rus. and the Vikings. I thought
that was pretty interesting, the way they did
that. The majority of the Viking world happens
in the East. We focus on the West, but they kind
of expanse the Viking travellers and the Rus
and Kiev and down to Baghdad and Constantinople.
It's an incredible story. That's interesting.
It makes me think now of course, because in episode
one we don't just see Knut and Emma and Godwin
all vying for the favour of the Pope, but we
also get a glimpse about what Harald Hardrada,
or Hardrada to be, because he's not yet given
himself a nickname, and Leif Erikson are getting
up to in what is Istanbul, but then Constantinople,
and otherwise known as Miklagard, down under
the kind of like the Emperor there, with Empress
Zoe. And of course, Harold is leading the Varangians.
He is leading battles. They show him leading
a siege of Syracuse. So I'm not sure if that's
accurate or not, Justin. Yeah, I think it is.
I mean, he wasn't well, was he leading? There's
a Byzantine general who's leading the expedition.
But as far as we know, the the Varangian Guard
are kind of the shock elite troops. And of course,
in in in the sagas. Harold and the Byzantine
general have, you know, a tiff and arguments
of all kinds of things. And I think they spit
away from the main body and kind of go and do
some of their own campaigning. Yeah, but I was
in Syracuse three years ago and I was certainly
poking around, you know, imagining Harold being
on the hills and following the Athenians, you
know, a thousand years later. Well, interestingly,
Harold does have a bit of a And a monity, a nemosity,
I can't think of the right word. Well, not quite
a tiff, but definitely there's some conflict
emerging between a Byzantine general called Maniakes.
Yeah, that's it. Who is cast very stereotypically
as a large, herculean -sized brute of a guy with
short hair. real butch looking face huge muscles
and he literally in one scene he's literally
bare chest wrestling all the other generals because
he's got no one else to fight and he goes Harada
Harada come on come on come and face me and I
was like no if I want to fight you I will when
I want to kind of thing I think that's a fairly
good representation of him really interesting
yeah I thought are they just going for like the
bully stereotype to have someone that looks physically
more dominating than Harold, who's still real
well -muscled. The guy who plays him, I forgot
his actual name, has definitely been in the gym
for the role. But yeah, there's a scene where
Harold has to save the emperor from being lopped
off by the Syracusians' rulers. horse -riding
assassin type things and because then of course
many echoes get falls out of favor because he
didn't do it, Harold did and they still can't
break the siege and but Harold says his Ferengians
have got a plan and it turns out to be Leif who's
become somewhat of a Norse scholar slash scientist
and he's worked out how to use sulfur and fire
to make explosives and they dig a secret tunnel
under the wall and blow it up and then the Varangians
charge through and the leader doesn't expect
it at all in Syracuse's fort and that's how they
do it. But yeah I thought that was an interesting
way of shoehorning Leaf into the action in Syracuse
even though I couldn't quite see it happening.
person, because I don't know if that kind of
science and explosive technology was around for
anyone to use, at least on the emperor of Constantinople
side of things. I think they have Greek fire
at this point. Yeah, I was expecting to see Greek
fire, but they didn't show us any. Yeah, they
did. Did they? Yeah, Leif used Greek, well, Leif
didn't use Greek fire, Maniacus stole it. and
used it against the inhabitants. Oh, is that
what he threw in? I thought it was just more
sulfuric explosives that he was firing in. The
way they did it, the way they suggested it was
that they blew sulfur, dropped sulfur on all
the inhabitants and then lit it. That's Greek
fire. But that's what they were supposed to be
doing. That isn't Greek fire. Unfortunately,
we don't actually know the ingredients of Greek
fire. They've been trying to recreate it for
centuries and they can't do it so it was just
this one theory that you light sulfur and that
makes Greek fire and pretty sure it's not that
simple because they'd have been able to do it
you know they would have done that. And I think
it's always described as being shot out so I
always have the image of my head for the the
Vikings almost being like a dragon you know a
ship with kind of a spout that shoots fire it
must have just been so resonant for them. yeah
some kind of cannonball equivalent set on fire
and then launched from a trebuchet or something
like that yeah so yeah they did include Greek
fire not as it would have been sounds like a
kind of latter -day Archimedes yeah the whole
idea of Greek fire i think is that it stays a
fire even in water It doesn't go out. It's got
to have some sort of oil, I think, accompaniment
to it. The nearest equivalent is napalm. We still
don't know. We've lost the ingredients. there's
probably a book out there with all the ingredients
of how to make things like that that he wrote
and probably took it to America with him so he's
probably under a stone in America. It's on a
dark web somewhere. Well I did want to say about
those battle scenes and all the fight scenes
I thought were really well choreographed. Yes.
Oh good. In the show I thought they were they
were done quite well. I was really impressed
by it. both the big battles and the smaller one
-on -one sort of thing we see between Harold,
Hadrada and Maniacus. So I thought that was really
quite good. Because what Maniacus does to the
people in Syracuse, I mean, the Constantinople
emperor tells the leader that they can either
surrender or not and then leaf points out that
he's actually sealed up five of their wells so
they're all going to die of dehydration before
food etc so you might as well just give in and
then noble lead says i will fight your champion
and if i win we go free and if not then we will
submit to you how old hadrana is picked over
maniacas to be the emperor's champion And it
is quite a tough combat. He actually gets surprised
by one slash across his arm, I think, before
he manages to get a dagger in the side in what
appeared to be a fumble and kill the leader.
And then the emperor says, I will stick to my
vow. I will not harm your people. Your people
are safe. And of course, the emperor goes back
to Constantinople to celebrate and proclaim great
victory. Maniacus discovers what Leif has been
doing. and decides to commandeer it, as Sharon
said, and thus put all the people in Syracuse
to fire, effectively. And thus, Leaf has his
kind of Einstein, or is it Einstein? Or is it
someone else? No, it wasn't someone else. It
wasn't Einstein. It was Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer
moment. He has some great regret for this discovery
and it being used to do the wrong thing. And
Mappieck just says, well, they were heathens.
they don't believe in god they're all because
they're all muslim of course so he just wants
to wipe out all muslims off the face of the earth
regardless of what his emperor says and does
and remarkably he doesn't suffer any punishment
for that which i thought well that cannot have
gone unnoticed but maniakas probably has more
people agreeing with him or fighting with him
than defending against harald harada kind of
thing they both returned to constantinople and
both are given a great title that i don't even
know if i've written it down correctly um there's
this long title which apparently makes them second
to the emperor which was interesting um and of
course they both get it um although Maniacos
completely does repeatedly refer to the Varangians
as the emperor's bodyguards which in historical
terms they were but it was nice that the series
showed them being used in the campaign world
as well as just being standing around the castle
keeping an eye on the emperor and whatnot. I
think there were two grades of uh Ferangian guard.
When you started you kind of I think it was the
Ferangians outside the walls was the full title
um that was essentially the kind of the mercenary
shock troop and then once you've you know you've
proven your loyalty and ability then you could
you kind of graduate to the Varangian Guard in
the palace. I think that's how it worked. Harold
gets, he has a quite odd title. He's not second
in charge of the emperor, but he does get a title.
The Greek word means something like he's allowed
to have silver band on his cloak, something like
this. So clearly it was a very kind of regimented
or Byzantine system of honours. In the show they
do give him a new cloak, a new suit of armour.
It looks very Roman, but I don't know much about
Roman military armour. I suppose they thought
that Constantinople at that time was the centre
of the Eastern Roman Empire. It was still the
Roman Empire. They called themselves Romanus,
didn't they? Yeah, that was probably the link
with the Roman uniforms because I thought that
they were all wearing Roman gear that you hadn't
seen for a thousand years by that point. I love
those red cloaks. They say it so well in the
show. They really practice that word. I salute
them for it because I can't pronounce it. I guess
the only other slight introduction that we see
in episode one is of course Freydis back in the
now fairly settled and peaceful pagan settlement
of Johnsburg. And she oversees a marriage and
then this intriguing carriage of Steger walks
on who just seems to be a wanderer. He seems
to have come from further east than even Leif
and Hadrad have been. because he mentions about
kind of like meditation and does defensive defensive
combat, not aggressive combat, defensive. He
seems to be very much like a monk, an awesome
monk, but without following any faith. And I
think that explores Fradis's role as a leader
until, of course, things go a bit wrong there
when Jomsberg gets poisoned because they all
have eaten flour with poisoned mushrooms in.
Which is unfortunate. That's basically a lot
of what happens in episode one. Episode two is
covering Syracuse and the Maniachis betraying
the Emperor's vow of protecting the people. That's
when Emma talks to the Pope and identifies the
Cardinal on her hit list and arranges that somehow
miraculously in the heavily guarded Vatican capital
of Vatican City. She knows people. Ah, that's
it. And then we get a bit of a glimpse in Norway,
because that's where, after Canute and Emma have
appeased the Pope and got their blessing, albeit
have to build more churches in order to hold
the Pope, Canute sends Godwin to Norway to reunite
with, of course, his wife, which is Canute's
niece? No, it's his sister, is it? Gitta is actually
Cnut's sister's sister -in -law. Sister -in -law,
that was it. And you were somewhere along the
family tree. Her brother is married to Cnut's
sister. Yeah, her brother's married to Cnut's
sister. And we get a glimpse of pagan life in
Norway, where apparently Svein Falkbeard is also
visiting. with his wife, although we never see
her either. We hear her mentioned. We know she's
around, but we never see her. And that's where
we meet Harold Harefoot in quite the stark fashion
of being completely naked, because of course
he was happily doing things with certain ladies
at the time, because it's that kind of a festival.
And he just comes out to Godwin and says, Godwin,
I want you to make me the next King of England.
And I'm like, what? Say that again? Put some
clothes on first. Because of course, Harold Harefoot,
not to be confused with Harold Godwin or Harold
Hadrada to be, Harold Harefoot is one of, I think
it's the oldest son of Elgie Foo, who is now
ruling Denmark with fame. Is that right? Yeah,
I think Harefoot's the youngest son, I think.
There's the oldest. Oh yes, that's it, Spain,
because Spain's on the throne, albeit with his
mother El Gifu at his side. And her mother's,
his mother's from the five boroughs, I think.
Yeah, yeah, Mercia is where they depict her being
from in the series. She's actually the theory
issue's El Gifu of York, isn't she? Oh no, what
is that? Northampton yeah that's right yeah and
um the theory is about is it the anglo -saxon
chronicle actually says that um swain and harold
hairfoot are the sons of a priest and a cobbler
one priest one a cobbler yeah so yeah somebody
was telling tales yeah physical assassination
there Trying to discredit them. Yes, and towards
the end, I'm sort of jumping ahead here, but
Emma and Askefu have this kind of nicey -nicey
moment towards the end of the series, where they're
friendly. And I thought, yeah, that never happened.
They were never friendly. Well, I like to think
that particular scene, and we will. skip ahead
to it. To give a summary to Justin, this is when
Canute decides to go to the fictional settlement
of Catigot and summon all his sons and Emma's
sons, and Elgith's sons are also around. So he's
got all his heirs apparent to be there, including
Godwin, who also wants the throne. At this point
Svane Fortbeard has died. He doesn't die as quickly
as he should have done, but they do eventually
kill him off. Canute, obviously, he shows a lot
of symptoms throughout this final series of possibly
Parkinson's. He gets a bit of a tremor, a bit
of a weak hand. Yeah. So he can't even hold papers.
He's always holding onto his sword or his belt.
That's how he keeps his hands still. And Emma
kind of goes ahead of the procession whilst Canute
goes and takes the sons off, including Arthur
Canute, who is very young and tells him about
a North Witch. living category, and Emma says,
oh, just so you know, he's dying, and obviously,
if you ask, well, has he named an heir? And Emma
goes, no, but of course, I want my sons to win
as much as your sons. And they both sit on the
thrones, and they both have a contemplative moment,
not looking at each other, not even holding hands.
But I like to think that even though we don't
see the drama, Visibly, there's a lot of turning
cogs going on in their heads thinking, oh, gosh,
what do I need to do now? Who do I need to manipulate?
Who do I need to get on my side? And I quite
liked that. Although, of course, the writers
then take the horse by the reins and let it go
free after that point, because after a great
set up by Canute of having Edward by Emma. fight
Harold Herefoot to see whether intelligence can
beat strength, because that's what Leif says
is the greatest value of being a king. Harold
Herefoot quite swiftly nearly beats Edward until
Emma steps in and calls the fight off. And then
he says, right, none of you will be king. You
can go that way. You can go that way. Emma sends
you back to Norway. Herefoot, you're taking Harth
Canute to Norway. No. Denmark. Spain's still
in Norway. England won't have a king, England
will have a queen. And then he hands the airship
over to Emma, which causes a bit of a stir. There's
a part in there that I thought was really interesting
and it was when he, well two things. Number one,
I thought it was interesting that he asked Leif,
who's the one person who doesn't want to be king,
what does it take to be a king? And so Leif says,
there's two things. You have to be strong, intelligent,
and you have to be strong physically. And then
immediately when Knut sets up this battle between
his two sons, Emma says, stop this. And he says,
who's going to stop it when I'm gone? And she
immediately steps in, then she's the one that
stops it. So there's this whole thing that's
building Emma up as being the moving force here.
And it goes all the way through the very last
episode. Equally, Godwin is stirring in the shadows.
He is aptly in the shadows at the point of Sven
Fortbeard's death, which is, spoilers, committed
by Harold Harefoot, egged on by Godwin. And he
does it with the pillow when Sven Fortbeard's
dead. Because Sven Fortbeard hears about Godwin
and Harold Harefoot wanting to get the other
one thrown. And he goes, well, you know what
I do when I was a lad and I wanted a throne and
my father was a rubbish king, I killed him and
then I took the throne. And I'm like, OK, well,
that's not a set up for what's going to happen
next. I don't know what is. But I think that
did that actually happen, though? Did Spain actually
kill his father to then take throne? Yes, yes.
Although it's possible he's not his. It wasn't
his father. It's possible he was his nephew.
I think there's a lady. Is it Adam of Bremen,
I think? There's a later chronicle who describes
him as his nephew. So we don't really know. It's
quite possible it could be either. But yeah,
he drives his father out into exile, doesn't
he? They went to war. There was a battle. And
Sven was killed in the battle, but he was battling
his son's troops, or Knut's troops. So that's
how he died. and Knut stepped in after that.
No, Swain thought we had. No, he fell off his
horse in Gainsborough. No, I'm sorry. It was
Swain's dad and his father, Gorm. There's so
many kings. Yeah, I'm sorry. I got my kings mixed
up. Don't worry. Blame Netflix. Its muddle timeline
makes us confused about what we see is true.
And that's why I'm hoping, dear viewers, that
you're learning as much as I am. from these three
wonderful guests of mine. Yeah, I did Spain folkbeard
in Ian Dale's Kings and Queens of England. Either
he died falling off his horse or he was killed
by the ghost of St Edward. And we got it wrong,
it's not Gorm, it's Harold. Of course, whose
father is Gorm. I'm trying to get all these things.
organized so yeah it's the guy who intended who
invented the wireless connection between mobile
phones yep the runic symbol dad yeah well talking
about kings and death they did something of course
very controversial with elguifu in spain in norway
because they didn't both died in Norway, dear
readers and listeners, from reading wonderful
works like Patricia's and some other non -fiction,
I believe. They got basically shooed out of Norway.
None of them liked them. None of the Yarls liked
them. Yeah, they got chased out and Swain got
chased out of Norway because Elfifu was acting
as a regent and nobody liked the way she was
acting as regent. So they both got kicked out
of Norway. And Sveen died the same year he started
in 1035. Really? Oh, yeah. He was with the Kansans.
Supposedly, they went to Denmark. They went to
Hartha Knudskort. And Sveen died in Denmark.
We don't know how, you know, I mean, they could
have been in Denmark and nowhere near Sveen.
Yeah. But that led to the, oh, I don't even want
to go there, the whole... you know, who's going
to be king after Knut? Yeah, exactly. When England
was divided between the three sons, essentially.
Yeah, you do have to wonder, Arthur Knute suddenly
sees his older half -brother arriving in Denmark.
Arthur Knute's still only a teenager, isn't he?
He's not, you know, he's there as acting, learning
to be a ruler. Canute dies in 1035. So, to have
his older half -brother turn up in Denmark, who
has also got a claim to the Danish throne, you
can understand why Swain didn't live long after
that. Well, but there's lots of other things
going on that Swain was running from the Norse,
the Norse people who were driving him out, and
the Norse at the same time were attacking Denmark,
and that's why, so basically he had this army
following him and that's what kept Arthur Knute
from going back to England to take the throne
there. He had to fight off the Norse because
they were trying to take over because there was
this power vacuum. Knute was gone. Sven and his
mom had not really done anything that anybody
liked. The nobles were going up against them
and so they were trying to see what can we get
now? Who's strong enough to hold us off? Well
there was a thing and that's Magnus turned up
as well. Magnus Olafsson. Because they do use
him as the main murderer. effectively of Spain
and El Guifu and I didn't like the way they murdered
Spain I thought I mean I saluted the guy for
the acting of it but I don't like the way they
basically all impaled him on 12 dozen spears
and then lowered him but then beat him to bits
and like guys he's already dead you don't need
to keep beating him but no I think I wonder if
they were trying to do that with the um to follow
the Roman idea that everybody had a hand in his
death so Nobody could be blamed for it. Nobody
could be innocent for it. Yeah. You were all
in it together, so you couldn't turn on each
other because each of you had done it. Yeah.
And that's how the Romans did it, isn't it? That's
very interesting. Yeah. And it's interesting
that they make Canute appear ill because um from
the state of his empire and the location of his
sons it seems that his death was quite sudden
um and not expected um because he's still quite
young isn't he he's i think he's in in his early
40s um and yeah he was only 1035 uh yeah he would
have been yeah middle approaching 50 but he died
at Shaftesbury and Shaftesbury is a convent where
they had you know they had an infirmary there
so I think probably he came down with something
at the very last minute and went to Shaftesbury
perhaps to pray to be cured and turned himself
over to the sisters so I don't think it was a
long -term thing and they seemed that all of
his sons had some sort of genetic issue because
they all died young. Now you're right, he wasn't
yet 40. I think it was 1097 he was born, wasn't
he? Something like that. So he was about 18 when
his dad died. 1090. Well, in my books, it's 1090.
So I can't do the math. I'm an English major.
So, but yeah, I mean all the others Arthur can
you and was about His 20s, yeah, definitely young
adult was about in his 30s. Yeah, so it was very
And no No, but I mean healthy it's all about
choking or sudden illnesses, isn't it is hmm
and it's interesting because Sven I think was
pretty old. He was pretty long in that tooth
when he died Sven Forkbeard But we don't know
how he died. You were talking, you know, was
he? It sounded like it might have been a heart
attack Something like that But well Hartha Knute
died at a party, you know at a wedding Yeah,
he fell. Yeah, and he he didn't get consciousness.
He was for two days He never he died A stroke
almost. Yeah. Well of course with Magnus killing
off Elgifu and Svein and half the Canute and
Harold Hereford already be sent to Denmark by
that point, interesting enough. So I don't think
Harold Hereford ever went to Denmark, I always
thought he was more or less based in England
the whole time, just waiting for his chance because
I remember kind of like once Canute dies it does
then go to Harold Harefoot because Arthur Canute
isn't there to claim and of course Edward is
still in Normandy. England actually when he dies
England is split between Harefoot and Arthur
Canute. That was the arrangement. And Emma looks
after Arthur Cnut's interests and takes hold
of the Treasury of Winchester and sends a message
to Arthur Cnut to come and claim his share of
the throne. But Arthur Cnut is busy in Denmark
that he doesn't come. And it takes a couple of
years before Hereford actually takes the whole
of England. And it's because Arthur Cnut isn't
there to fight his corner and Emma doesn't have
enough influence on her own. because he needs
Harthacanew to take his half of the throne and
he's basically, he's supposed to have the south
and Harefoot's supposed to have the north, which
I think is technically the north of the Thames
rather than, you know, a rather larger portion
of England than Harthacanew was supposed to get.
But because he doesn't come over, Harefoot takes
the whole lot. Yeah, but the best part of England,
I mean the wealthiest part of England was the
South. The North was less, and of course that's
where Alfifi's family was. Well, that's where
Hereford's influence is. Hereford's influence
is the North and Mersey and the Midlands. So
he's got all that support and that's the support
he uses to take over the South when Arthur Canute
doesn't come. to about his own corner. Yeah.
And there's one story that I saw somewhere I
read that the North and the South of England
were both being held for Harthacnut that Harefoot
was actually a regent for Harthacnut and Emma
was the regent for him in the South. Interesting.
They were waiting for him to come. Well, as we
know, the writers completely bypassed that with
having sending both of them to Denmark. Right.
Right. It's too complicated. Just send them to
Denmark. Well, interestingly, looking back to
that, there's that scene at the end of The Big
Feast where Knut declares that Emma is going
to rule England his dead and Harold Hearthwood
is having a very toddler -esque, and I recognise
it because I have one, tantrum. in the great
hall and Godwin comes and he goes where were
you Godwin? I knew you were my advisor and Godwin
said I wasn't invited which is probably Elgie
Few of Northampton's doing because she doesn't
like him either and because of the way they would
betray each other in season two if not season
one and going that far back and Godwin says well
just think of the positives always always find
the bright side in things kind of like what's
what when the canoe is dense what do you do and
how if it goes when my father's dead, his wishes
don't matter anymore. So I don't have to look
after the brat. I can lop him off. And I found
it really comedic that Godwin was playing his
part Godwin whilst holding the puppet of Godwin.
And the likeness was spot on. I really like how
they got the puppets to be like each other because
they did a really nice puppet show, like a medieval
puppet show. And I really quite like that. But
of course when Canute dies and that scene I thought
they did the Canute's death scene rather well.
It was very emotive, very powerful, not full
of tears and love but just just simple sweet
things that they say to each other and he does
say Emma you need to go to Winchester to be near
the treasury. And of course the one thing I always
remember about learning from talking about you
guys and this is kind of like that Emma is still
with the treasury even when her next son from
Normandy, Edward takes the throne and he has
to basically prize the treasury offer because
she's still guarding it. She's trying to keep
clean to the power. You control England, so you
control the money first. I don't think it was
interesting at the end where Harefoot arrives
in England and she's sent for Edward, not Arthur
Camus. They've had her sent for Edward and it's
like she didn't send for Edward at that point,
she sent for Arthur Camus. As far as she was
concerned, Edward was Arthur Canute's heir, not
the other way around. That's Godwin all over,
especially in this particular depiction of Godwin.
The theory is, later on 1037 I think it was,
either Godwin or Emma or somebody sent Alfred
and Edward a letter telling them to come to England.
Emma usually gets the blame for it. I can't see
it personally because it just wasn't the right
time. There wasn't enough support in England
for either of her sons. But Alfred gets captured
whilst in the company of Earl Godwin and handed
over to Harefoot or taken by Harefoot from Earl
Godwin. and blinded and dyes of his wounds. I
think that's where the Godwin telling Emma to
send for Edward comes from. It's just it didn't
happen in 1035. It was a few years later. I like
to think with that scene Godwin was trying to
work out if Emma had done this thing or not.
If she was going to stay true to Canute and try
and do it solo. Because of course he's trying
to kind of like cause her anxiety and doubt by
saying oh but the the Wytan won't support you
and I think there'll be civil war and you need
to stop all this before it gets worse. And she
goes I already have done. I've sent for my son
Godwin. I'm that bit clever, but then of course
Godwin goes aha, I'm just going to Harold Harefoot
immediately to the speedy mail, speedy messengers
and speedy boats and somehow Harefoot beats all
of them and of course that's what he steps Emma,
but then Emma at the end, and this is the one
bit I did not like, decides to use her wily,
womanly, beautiful, I'm still kind of in my prime,
Harold Harefoot darling, I know you're my stepson,
but would you like to hold my hand whilst I sit
really close to you on this throne? And I'm like
no! No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, backdrop to it, but I didn't,
I really felt like it was more a power play than
a sexual thing. I mean, it is quite aptly both.
She was trying to regain power from Godwin pulling
that hoodwink of her getting harrowed hair from
there. by thinking okay well i've dated one king
maybe i can date the next king kind of thing
um but it's because when harold hereford meets
her in category he goes oh you're just as beautiful
as i remember oh he's he's putting on the charm
on her that's yeah he well plus he was kind of
like naked and what the what's the word fornicating
when we first see him so i think he's just after
anything And if it happens to be the Queen of
England, so be it. So he says like, Godwin, go
do the planning. Me and the Queen need to talk.
And I'm like, hmm. And that's the rabbit connection
to his name. Yeah. That's why it's called Harefoot,
is it? It's not because he was run fast. The
thing is, there's so much intrigue that went
on at that time that they don't use. They made
up their own intrigues for this story. I mean,
I really think that that letter that brought
Edward and Alfred to England, I think that was
sent by Harefoot and Elf Keefoo. And they were
waiting for them when they came to England. They
were immediately captured. So even if you look
at the letter, it says something like, follow
the instructions given by this person who gives
you this paper. And it's like, wait, what? So
I think it was a real set up by Harefoot. Well,
maybe they were nodding towards that with Godwin
getting hair thin so quickly. Of course we mustn't
forget Hardrada in all this, of course we've
come more or less summarized how him and Makinaka
start hating each other and of course they do
portray Harald having an affair with Empress
Zoe and the reasoning for this is unusual in
that it emerges through a complicated series
of secret meetings and liaisons and then a masked
event where Hardrada is presumably following
what he thinks is Zoe and finds the emperor indulging
in some ladies and then because oh yes yes you're
wondering why I've sent Zoe to find you it's
because I cannot have a son and we thought you'd
make it better further than me in producing one
kind of thing I thought okay right yeah sure
we'll roll with that problem one big problem
with this by this point and pursue what Zoe was
Actually, she's well past it. She couldn't have
kids full stop. You know, she only became Empress
when she was about 50, I think it was. So every
husband, every man who married her did it for
the power not to have children with her. She
has a habit of taking younger lovers. Yeah. And
I think in Hamish Kriegler saga, um it talks
about a lady of the court um sets harold free
when he's been imprisoned yeah um and kind of
looking through the sources it's very probable
that he leads the verangian um escort of i think
uh empress zoe's sister probably goes to um jerusalem
um and he's taking the um stonemasons who'll
build the uh church the holy sepulchre Um, so
Harold, I think, um, is possibly Zoe's lover.
Um, but he's, he's possibly, he's, he definitely
has a connection with the royal court. Um, and,
uh, you know, it, it wouldn't be unlike, um,
Empress Zoe to take a younger, you know, kind
of a butch, young, uh, Varangian as a lover.
Um. Well, they have their nice times, is what
we shall say. They have their nice times. And
unfortunately that scene following the mass ball
with the Emperor divulging the real reason why
he's perfectly happy for Zoe to dilly -dally
with Harold. Turns out that it's not Zoe and
it was just a redhead in disguise. And she then
promptly slices the emperor's neck. That's the
blood. Harold's there saying, help, help someone
catch that woman. She's already escaped. And
then, of course, Maniakos strides in saying,
arrest that man. He's murdered the emperor. And
thus Maniakos claims more power and has a royal,
not quite royal, a Christian trial of Harold
for kind of like murder and adultery. I'm not
sure if Harold faced any trial, did he? Or was
he just straight put into prison? That emperor,
I think, was drowned in his bath, I seem to remember.
I'm pretty sure he was drowned in his bath rather
than having his throat slit. Michael V was the
one who was blinded at a monastery. Yeah, I don't
think he was drowned in his bath. He's certainly
very ill. I think he has dropsy because after...
After Sicily, he and Harold are on a campaign,
I think, against the Bulgars and in the victory,
sort of triumph parade, he is so bloated that
he can barely sit on his horse and he goes not
long after. And then I think Harold is accused
by the next emperor who is neither he's the nephew,
he's a good -looking nephew of Chief Eunuch who's
brought into the palace as a kind of, you know,
allure for Zoe and he accuses Harold, or Maniaki
accuses Harold of not giving his due share of
booty to the Byzantine court. So he's basically
accused of kind of embezzling, stolen, you know,
war booty, war plunder, and he's imprisoned.
I mean, imprisoned is a very modern term. He's
locked in a cellar of a house. I'm trying to
think of the name of the game in the saga. I
think it's... Is it the barracks of a cavalry
unit? No. Something like that. And at the same
time... The Varangians being the palace guard,
they're replaced by a palace guard of Peschenegs.
So there's a real kind of, essentially there's
a power struggle and the Varangians get kicked
out of the palace. They're very despondent and
when the emperor puts Zoe in a monastery and
tries to claim power himself. Then one of the
palace ladies comes and releases Harold and he
joins up with the Varangians who are very despondent
and unhappy about being kicked out of the palace
and he leads the kind of the counter -attack.
I mean, just as far as we know from the slag
is all true, which is the most extraordinary
kind of story. Netflix missed a lot there. We
just get him being in Constantinople for seven
years under the same emperor, not having any
of these other kind of things. We don't even
see him go to Jerusalem. We see him in Syracuse
and then he's in Constantinople for the rest
of it. He does have his uncle from Rus. or the
ruse kind of with him saying Harold why are you
still here I've got your gold back at home and
it's enough to buy five armies and it all feeds
into of course Harold's ambition which I do kind
of think was a nice touch towards him as a historical
figure because he's done so much in that life
all to eventually get the throne of Norway. But
when Maniacus puts him on trial, Maniacus manipulates
him emotionally by having his favourite three
Varangians turn up. One's asked, do you know,
did this man have sex with Empress Zoe? And he
goes, no. And Maniacus goes, are you sure? And
then he presents his beaten up girlfriend. And
so Harald had rounds like, oh crumbs, my friend's
either going to betray me or he's going to hate
me for the rest of my life because his girlfriend
gets killed effectively after this point. So
Harold Hadrad and Nobly says, oh yes I did it,
I raped her though so she is completely innocent,
completely innocent and she should be annulled
of all sin and then of course gets taken off
and it doesn't go to a house, it's some kind
of fortress island, goes on a boat. and he thinks
he saved his friends but then Maniakis has left
him an unfortunate welcoming party of his three
friends all on a pole, all badly beaten up and
being pennied up by crows and he's then thrown
into this deep almost like hole cavern under
the fortress, lower down on a net, and he finds
a raven friend and some bone and decides to chisel
the bone to make a bone pick and chisel his one
remaining torch to make splinters, and then he
uses the wine and the bread he gets to get the
ravens drunk, I believe? drunk enough that they
lay flat tie some tethered rope around them with
the shavings he's got and then he sets them alight
and he goes when all is lost what do we do we
go home and then the ravens fly free with their
flaming tethers and set fire to constantinople
remarkably at the same time he's coming out for
to face his death penalty and then he picks a
fight with maniacs and maniacs gets it quite
justifiably i think um because he's not a nice
man from the word go really and then he just
leaves then he just leaves actually when he was
like justin said he was freed from his prison
he fought to put empress zoe back on the throne
and then he does ask to leave and the empress
refuses so he has to escape and i think they
missed the best bit because they didn't he escapes
with two ships out of constantinople And he actually
jumps, one ship gets caught, but he jumps over
the chain in the harbour, jumps the ship over
the chain, and I thought, I was waiting for that
bit. They don't even do it. If you go to Constantinople
now, there's pieces of that chain in the museum.
museum. The saga has it that they row very hard
towards the chain and he tells them all to run
to the back of the boat and the front rears up
and they stop on the chain and they all run to
the front of the boat and then slip over. And
the second boat, its spine or its keel breaks
on the chain and it sinks with a fair portion
of his treasure. The emperor who is now running
Constantinople now, the kind of the nobles have
taken control of Zoe and she's she's she kind
of has been emasculated really she's not given
they decide which of them will marry her. And
she doesn't get the choice anymore. And clearly,
because of course, Harold probably blinds the
emperor who the previous emperor, so the emperor
who puts him in prison and put Zoe in a convent
is blinded. And that's probably Harold who does
it. Or certainly he can have one under his command.
And so I always think of the next emperor, you
have this, you know, big, you know, burly foreigner
who um effectively you know kind of blinded your
predecessor um and again he's kind of he's too
powerful and too dangerous to have hanging around
um and so harold in a sense i think he's he knows
his time is up there and he needs to escape um
and so yeah he flees up back to kiev doesn't
he but can i ask is the kind of like because
i believe i've read in one of the books possibly
this one how old hadrada the warrior's way um
because is it an urban myth or not about him
or some other viking using birds and tethers
of fire to set fire to some settlement that they're
trying to get into? I think it's a story in the
Sicily campaign but it's a story that is repeated
I mean you know I mean there's another viking
story where they have the same you know um the
same kind of ruse and it's a ruse that gets repeated
and essentially one of those kind of medieval
tropes that they like to kind of trot out um
okay uh it may have happened um probably not
but you know yeah I mean, I'll salute the cast
for doing it because they looked like very real
ravens to me. They didn't use kind of like animatronics
or CGI. They were remarkably good ravens at lying
still. I don't know how they talk to like a group
of six ravens all to play dead effectively. You're
talking about the prison because the saga has
Harold in prison with two of his men and one
of them is the Iceland. I think Aldor. Anyway,
that the Icelander is the is the is probably
the the oral source for most of the Hamis Creek,
the saga about Harold because he goes after Harold
returns to Norway, he goes back to Iceland and,
you know, kind of these tales of, you know, birds
setting fire to buildings. That's the kind of
thing, you know, you would entertain, you know,
other people with during the long Icelandic winters.
And so. The guy who's in prison with Harold is
probably the source of the oral tradition that,
what, 200 years later, Snorri Sturluson writes
down. Is it Snorri? I'm not sure if it is Snorri,
actually. Anyway, yeah. So that's very interesting.
So there's a kind of Icelandic slant to the star
goes about Harold. Interesting. Yeah, and you
can you can pick a bit of tension between the
two characters, where Haldor's kind of, you know,
holding a grudge a bit against Harold. I really
should get that book and read it. I keep hearing
about it but never actually read the actual original
source text which is interesting. But of course
in that pivotal scene where he sets the ravens
free that's when he's just before he takes taken
up for his supposed execution he then carves
in runes and I'm not a runic expert so I can't
call them or not, whether those runes are accurate,
but you just write in the name Hardrada into
the wall, then of course it's like sandwashed
with magic into English so we know what we're
looking at. And that's the first time we see
it in the series, and of course this is near
the end now, because then it radically skips
forward to finding him in Norway. We don't see
the entire trip, just like we didn't see him
take the trip from Rus down to Constantinople,
they just dug it. time switcheroo and getting
back in into Norway just as Magnus is roaming
around having offed Spain and El Gifu claiming
power and interestingly enough they They show
it being quite a short -lived conflict between
Magnus and Harold in that the Jarls can't make
up their mind. It's a 50 -50 split. So, okay,
Jarls, let's... Well, the Jarls say, can you
not just rule together for us? Because we want
to have faith with the Pope, which Magnus apparently
brings, because Harold's fling with Freydis earlier
is what angered the Pope, and so he's gonna be
extra communicated if he doesn't burn Freydis,
because if Freydis turns up and gets captured...
She's a whole other story, guys, a whole other
story. The story between Magnus and Harold actually
seems to be more financial. Harold had come back
from Constantinople rather rich and Magnus was
a king but without any money so he agreed to
share the throne with Harold as I think Harold
as sub -king rather than whole king. um you know
under magnus um so long as harold shared his
fortune with magnus really i never knew i don't
know why but i thought they had a few wars or
battles between them over who was going to eventually
be in the neither than once then they both agree
to okay we'll wait until this time did die the
following year It was a very short agreement
and nobody seems to know exactly how Magnus died
but I'm suspecting it wasn't of natural causes.
Yeah and it's interesting about Harold and the
church as well because I mean as far as we know
he has almost no contact with the western church
but clearly a very deep contact with the eastern
orthodox church. My guess is probably that he
brings back, because he founds quite a few churches
and cathedrals when he goes back to Norway. My
hunch is that he's bringing orthodox priests
or monks back with him. And he builds a cathedral
in Oslo. And it's of wood. And it has a kind
of double nave. It's the most extraordinary kind
of church. And I do kind of think, you know,
this guy has seen Hagia Sophia, which is the
most sort of sublime and I think it's the largest
church in Christendom until St. Paul's was built.
And he must have been so impressed by that and
kind of wants to, you know. wants to build something
equally impressive when he gets back to Norway.
Obviously he doesn't have stonemasons, but he
does have, you know, woods craftsmen. And so
he builds an extraordinary church, excuse me,
with a double nave. And so kind of Christianizing
Norway, and Christianizing in a sense of kind
of, you know, impressing the locals with, you
know, learning and big buildings as opposed to
necessarily uh book learning um seems part of
part of his kind of king king um kingly strategy
i have a question one of the characters that
we meet in this Valhalla is um herald hadrata's
son bifritus did herald have a son he had two
i think yeah He had two sons by, what was her
name, Byra Arneson or something. He supposedly
had two wives at the same time, Elisif and Kev.
Thora, who was a Dane. And Elisif only had daughters
and Thora only had sons. One of them was called
Magnus. and he was the one who became King of
Norway after Harold died. Interesting. He'd invaded
Wales when he was about 13. As you do. I can't
remember the name of the other son. I think it's
Swain, but I could be wrong. He's at the Battle
of Stamford Bridge, I think. And he survives,
doesn't he? Yeah, I think he left Magnus in Norway.
to rule whilst he came over to Stamford Bridge,
well to England and yeah the other one was at
Stamford Bridge. Well at last they don't show
him marrying anyone but even Freydis and he's
very glad he went Freydis to reunite. He survived
Stamford Bridge and he was the one who was allowed
to take the Norwegian and Danish warriors home.
You know, he was allowed to leave in his ships
even though they'd been defeated. So wasn't there
a Magnus who had a deal with Harthacnut that
if either of them died, they would take over,
Magnus, if Harthacnut died, Magnus would take
over Denmark and England. Yes, Magnus Olufsen.
Yeah, they shared the throne for a year. That
was Harold Hardrada's claim to England, that
he was Magnus' heir, and Magnus had had this
deal with Arthur Canute, whichever one lived
longest, whichever one died first, the other
would be his heir. So Hardrada's argument was
that he was entitled to England, because he was
Arthur Canute's heir as the heir of Magnus. Which
always seems to be the most factuous argument.
It was kind of a legalese argument that made
no sense. But the only sense I can make of it
is, in a sense, Harold Hardrada, his early life
is dominated by Canute the Great. it kills his
brother, drives him into exile, and he spends
all his time in the Mediterranean. And in a sense,
I kind of, anyway, I can make sense of it. He's
really, he's competing with Canute's ghost, in
that he wants, if Canute could conquer England,
then damn it, Harold Hardrada can. Because he
thinks, I mean, I think he is a much more impressive
character, but he's achieved an extraordinary
amount. So that's the only way that can make
sense to me, you know. But I guess medieval chroniclers
weren't into kind of personal psychology in the
same way. They preferred these other kind of
more obtuse arguments. So would he have been
very amenable when Tostig turns up after having
his tiff with Harold Godwinson saying, oh, can
you come and save England for my brother, please?
We'll make you king effectively. I think so.
I think he's a bit bored. I mean, he. He comes
back to Norway. He becomes king. And then he,
you know, he fights some wars against the Danes.
But I think he's just, you know, he's turned,
I think he just turned 50. He's probably a little
bit bored and just kind of like, you know, one
last throw of the dice. And Tossig turns up and
he thinks, you know, if Knut can do it, God damn
it, I can do it. And actually, you know, his,
the warriors who are with him are, you know,
he's, he's you know for 1066 I always kind of
say if you were a betting man you had your money
on Harold Hardrada because neither William or
Godwin they're both successful warriors but neither
of them are kind of professional soldiers. Harold
Hardrada has been part of Europe's most professional
military organization which is the Byzantine
Empire succeeded in it and brought back with
him a kind of an elite um troop of of warriors
who are with him um or within the Varangian Guard
um who are battle hardened in a way that no one
in western you know Christianity is yeah um and
it's interesting uh there's the excavations at
Fulford which is um the first battle of 1066
uh there's um a scabbard, which is Byzantine
scabbard, essentially. It's been found in the
fort there, which has to be one of, you know,
Harald Hardrada's Varangian kind of followers.
Yeah, so I think, yeah, he just thinks he can
do it, I can do it. Well, thinking back a few
episodes, there is a nice scene where Godwin's
gone to Norway to do his Norwegian thing with
Harald Hefup. And Canute and Emma pay a visit
to Normandy to see her sons. And of course, there
we meet the slightly older than historically
accurate young Duke William to be of Normandy.
And he himself is quite closely pushed underfoot
by, I believe, his uncle, because his father
was offed or murdered in some way. On his mother's
side. His father had died returning from Jerusalem.
Yes, they've got Richard II there. Emma's brother
is there. That's what I was going to ask you
about. I was getting very confused. He's not
actually in charge of anything. William Moore's
brother, who's an absolute nobody, ruled England,
Normandy for William. And it's like, actually
there was a great big power struggle when William
was young. There was one of his advisors was
killed in William's bedroom while William was
in bed, you know, while William was actually
present. Yeah, that's what's alluded to, isn't
it? He was kidnapped several occasions with people.
knowing that having hold of the Duke means you're
in charge. So, it was funny that Emma's brother's
there and he's like, he's nobody as far as ruling
is concerned. He's like, shouldn't he be dead
by now? Yeah, it's an interesting family tree
that needs to detangle or untangle. Well, I thought
it was interesting that They had Canute and Emma.
They're actually traveling home from Rome and
they divert to Normandy to see Edward and Alfred.
And you have this dynamic between the boys and
their mother where Edward hates his, resents
his mother for abandoning him, which we know
he did. He did. And Alfred's the more compliant
son. I'm glad to see his. Whether or not Edward
resented his mother that early, I don't know.
He certainly makes it clear that kind of like
he sees his father's throne being given away
by someone else who isn't him and so on. And
I think that that I think that all happens in
the same episode where Godwin and Hef are having
that lovely chat with. So he thought a bit about
all being wanting to be king and I quite liked
the scene where they have Canute have that fatherly
man -to -man conversation with Edward saying
you're not ready yet throw to inherited but being
a king is made and I thought that was a beautiful
line I thought that was really powerful um because
of course Wayne Fortbeard made his kingship by
offering his dad um and so it's always the alternative
approaches to gaining power again the throne
and kind of like the nice the nice route that's
nice for everyone or the kind of like they're
just off everyone as you go kind of thing and
of course at the end of that scene well that
episode there's Alfred, Edward and Duke William
to be and they're all saying oh why are we why
when are we going to have our moment when do
we want our time and and it's the young William
that says I am waiting for my time let them forget
that you were there and then when you are old
enough to technically be a man and not need shepherding
around you can just trample them all over basically
and I thought oh that's a nice little streak
coming through because again that's another kind
of that's what Godwin is effectively doing with
everyone else he's and he says that it's like
a figuring category he goes I always back a winner
I know where to place my bets kind of thing And
so I thought that I just liked the way they show
these definitive political strategies, dynamics,
both kind of like even with these young boys
who eventually make a blood oath to that we will
have our moment, we will become kings and dukes
and rule the world and that kind of thing. We
will wait till all these adults drop dead effectively.
Excuse me. I thought that was an interesting
touch, but I really liked the chat that Canute
had with Edward. I really liked it. And of course,
Emma says to Canute earlier before then, kind
of like that Edward hates me because I married
you not for the kingdom, not for him, but for
me. I wanted you. And I thought, oh. That's the
thing with being a woman. We can't be selfish
all the time. We've got to think of everybody
else. Lady Ron, she's talking to Edward as they're
all saying goodbye. They've all been in Kattegat,
and everyone's been assigned their role. And
she says to Edward, you have to wait. I know
you're going to be king, but it's not time yet.
When Ethelred had several sons and... that there
was no guarantee who was going to be king. So
you have to wait. And yeah, I think that was
very astute reference to Emma. I think that's
exactly what she thought. Because she always
said that she tried to promote all of her children.
She tried to do whatever she could for their
best interests. And we see that in that scene.
Well, the other thing is, I think the... When
you look at history, you know, you know, Harthacnew
invites Edward, when he's king, he invites Edward
to come to England and be there. And there's
no way that wasn't at the instigation of Emma.
Exactly. You know, you need to settle the succession
now, let everybody know who's going to succeed
you. And Edward is the prime candidate, you know,
he's the affling. It was hard because he was
too young or he didn't get married in time did
he and therefore he had no hairs anyway. So yeah
I think Emma must have had a hand in inviting
Edward to England when he came and in guaranteeing
his safety as well. On the whole I think They
did paint a better picture of Emmering Cnut as
the series went on, whereas Harold had rather
they just had him... overly ambitious chasing
all the pretty things all the wealth and then
oh no you've lost it all now please go back to
Norway and resume your throne and that kind of
thing and he's just very kind of like gruff and
butch with anyone and he says I don't recognize
this Harold I see before me he goes no that Harold
died back in Constantinople when all my friends
died and I lost to Maniakes and that kind of
thing that's almost sulking in a way I thought
but you're just sulking that you lost in Constantinople
and now you're being deliberately harsh on everybody
else Because he does imprison Magnus within one
day of them co -ruling in this series. He goes,
I'm sorry, nephew, but you don't deserve that
throne, you're off to prison. And then the gals
are like, yes, but we asked you to co -rule.
He goes, well, tough. You can either join him.
or you follow me and he gets a helmet with a
crown on and that's when he says his name is
I am Harald Hadrada and I will make this the
greatest nation in the world and then they're
all shouting Hadrada, Hadrada, Hadrada which
again is possibly peaking a bit too soon in his
kind of kingship I think because he's not done
much in the way of being a king yet apart from
take a throne off his nephew. No, I think they
were a bit unfair to Hard Rider in the series,
actually. They didn't make him out. I mean, I'm
a bit of a fan of him, though, so I, you know,
I always like to see the best in him. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean, I mean, as I think we've said this in
nearly every, well, in all three episodes, even
this one, that there was so much history both
behind Leif Erikson as well as Hard Rider as
well as Kanute and Emma, that they could have
made them individual series just on those characters
alone. They didn't need to merge them all together
and have their cake and eat it. There was so
much to explore and in a way I actually felt
sad when at the end you thought oh because now
we've got all these characters here and there
is that void as we've all been saying that void
in England. That would have been interesting
to see how they then work it all out as chess
pieces being scattered the way they were but
It is what it is, Netflix have decided that was
enough. So that was enough. So you do wonder
if they didn't get to the end of the final episode
and go, actually, if they don't renew this for
another season, phew, because we have got everything
so mixed up and muddled up. I'm not quite sure
how we can get to 1066, honestly. Don't you think
that they probably knew by the time they wrote
that final episode they knew it was was not going
to be continued Yeah, so they had to figure out
a way to tie up What the loose ends that they
had I think I think that was probably what was
going on, but I wanted to say Sharon I really
thought that Harold all through the whole show
was the manliest. I mean, so many horrible things
happened to him. He was constantly fighting and,
you know, he was just, and constantly winning,
constantly winning, you know, building up towards
this Harold Hadrada when he finally sits on the
throne and boom, I'm it. He was quite a good
looking guy. He is, and I will say this, I was
actually before, a few days before this recording,
I watched a clip and you can find it on the BAFTA's
YouTube channel of the actor, I can't remember
his name, sorry, Harold Harad, I'll just call
you a character's name, but he was talking about
going into that role and he was given a script
and he thought, oh gums, how am I gonna do the
accent? Because of course he's actually English,
he's not. of any Scandinavian descent, like some
of the cast are. Because Freydis is, and Leif,
I think, is, I think. Or did he have a nosy accent?
But he was, then he started thinking, oh, I quite
like the character of Godwin. He seems quite
kind of like... cool and manipulative and shadowy
but then everyone could say no don't pass up
Harada it's the chance of a lifetime go for Harada
so he went for it and then they were doing their
filming and they were meant to film some kind
of battle encampment scene but there'd been a
storm the tents had been ruined it was mudlogged
and this was also during the era just after Covid
lift -outs were just starting to pull up a bit
so they had to find a small space and a small
number of cast members to do a scene and the
first scene he got to do in his role was when
him and Freydis coupled together that first night
in Kattegat. And I thought, wow, what a way to
start your journey as Harold Hadrod is bedding
a beautiful woman. But yes, I think he did it
really well. And considering it's his big first
role, I thought he did wonderfully. just like
you could go through clips of him just contradicting,
I'm Harold Sigurdsson, I'm Harold Sigurdsson,
I'm Harold Sigurdsson. He just says it with such
relish and you kind of like get the sense of
the character just through those words. Relief,
I was like, you're just a man who has no real
goal in life, you're having a mid -life crisis
that's lasting three seasons, you need to find
a reason to go west and go west. Freydis, we
haven't really talked much about her, partly
because I don't know much about her story or
Greenland. apart from the Vikings were in Greenland
and her father was Eric the Red. Eric the Red
turns out to be a bit of a dominating guy. He
doesn't want anyone to leave Greenland. He wants
everyone to come to Greenland, even though it's
a SHIT place to live. He was exiled to Greenland,
wasn't he? He didn't go there by choice. He was
exiled. He had to leave. And he couldn't go back.
He eludes that because he says, oh, welcome people
of Jonsberg. I know what it's like to lose your
home and your things, but welcome to my home.
But of course, Freydis wants to keep going to
find the land in the West because that's what
she was told by the CRS and Stig has convinced
her that that's where they're meant to be. But
Eric's like, no, there is no place in the West.
You must keep your boats and your supplies here
and your people here. We need people for the
settlement and everything else. So she gets in
quite a... family dilemma of wills against her
father and he eventually kidnaps her son and
sends him to live with some Inuit -type folk
further up north. So yeah, but that was never
resolved either by the end of the season. She's
a very interesting character. I think there's
two sagas that she appears in and one she's kind
of the baddie and one she's the goodie. So it's
really interesting. There's yeah they're called
now but there's there's two kind of versions
of her and I think she's the one who when they're
in Vinland or what is now North America the story
goes that one of the the locals tries to take
some beads or something and a fight breaks out
and the Vikings are on the run but she she bears
her breasts and slaps her breasts with a sword
and that terrifies the locals and they run off
so so she seems like she seems like kind of the
person you want to sit down and have a have a
kind of you know a drink with because of course
in the saga where she's a baddie i think she
kills she kills kind of four vikings with an
axe yeah so uh yeah we don't get any of that
unfortunately we get a strong woman protagonist
get woman leading a whole flock of people um
but then she comes against her father and there's
just the whole issue of conflict and she flees
Greenland go to Kattegat to find a new boat because
Eric's got their boat and the new captain because
Eric killed their captain so she's got no physical
means of getting to beyond Greenland. So she
goes to Kattegat and that's where she gets captured.
Magnus Olufsson's there. He's a real piece of
work. He's probably more, I think he's more evil
than Maniacus to be honest because he's the one
that off Sol Gifu off Spain and he's this on
this big vendetta to make his dad, of course,
Harold's brother, Olaf, a saint. He claims he's
going to go to Jomsberg and find the sanctified
remains of his father. He doesn't. Freydis actually
traps him there and remarkably he gets his way
off because he has to, because they can't leave
him in Jomsberg. That's not what happened in
history in Jomsberg. I don't know if it existed
or not. Olaf was killed... I was going to say
Olaf was killed when... Harold left, so they
get the whole Olaf becoming a saint bit really
very mixed up, or very unoriginal, I should say,
unoriginal. There's a story that when Saint Olaf's
body was dug up, Elfgyd, who was there, and she
took a look at it, and supposedly it was not.
brought it and she said something like he's no
saint and that you have that image you have that
idea there in the story where you know he comes
and he says I have my father's body and he's
going to be a saint she says that would be a
miracle so you get that little thing going on.
And of course, she and in the show in the previous
episode of the previous season, she and Olaf
were lovers. Yes. So one thing I wanted to say
about Freitas was they really made her a warrior.
And that's picking up on how we see her in Vinland
as being a warrior woman. She's kind of a Lagertha
character, you know, a real warrior woman. And
they really picked that up that she's quite which
is quite something when it comes to holding a
sword. Yeah. Of course, Magnus doesn't find his
dad's body because he gets a bit stuck in Jomsberg.
So he decides to off one of his men and then
absolutely butcher the face and the head. So
you couldn't really tell if it was Olaf or not.
He just happens to have his cross, which was
a remarkable find. I don't know why they kept
the cross, but they did apparently in Jomsberg.
And that's what they left behind. So of course
he's there going on about this. And as you say,
Yom Gifu says, well, he was no saint anyway,
kind of thing. So yes, I think, I know I think
I've covered all the things that I liked or didn't
like. Has anyone else got any last pointers?
I just want to say, I think Jomsberg did exist.
And we know that Knut was sent his son Sven there.
at some point and possibly else keep you with
him at some point in, you know, in, in that period
in the, in the 10 thirties, early 10 thirties
or late 10 twenties. That that was that he, he
had stuff going on in the Baltic and that's where
Jomsburg is at the top of Germany, Poland area.
So yeah, it existed. I did wonder if it was them
alluding to the Joms Vikings, which I believe
were actual people. That's where they were, was
in Jomsburg, yeah. My brain was putting two and
two together and getting four, that's good. I
did like the way they referred to Cnut as Cnut
the Great because there are not many people in
Britain who actually know that he has the epithet
the Great and that there are two kings of England
known as the Great, Alfred and Cnut. Because
Emma also calls him like Emperor of the North,
doesn't she? And I play my book, but not mine.
I didn't write it, I'd ask. But the one I've
read about Canute is called Canute Emperor of
the North. So there are good books out there,
dear viewers and listeners, and watch as that
if you want to find out the truth behind these
remarkable cast of characters, I implore you
to go read them, as well as the wonderful fiction
written by our friends, Patricia and Justin.
Because Justin has written Sheenal Wool about
Godwin. And he's also written Viking Fire, which
I do have. It's just living up with the big spiders.
So it's it's doing a job of protecting me from
the big spiders at the minute. Yeah, it's totally
gone. Viking Fire. The end of Reddy and Reddy's
reign. And if you might need something to kind
of scratch your itch for Vikings after this.
And if you haven't, you know. gone through the
sagas, and any of your viewers or listeners,
I heartily recommend it. You know, they're surprisingly
readable. Usually you get past the first couple
of chapters, which is long lists of things. And
they're surprisingly like a modern novel and,
you know, kind of great characters, tons of female
characters in a way that we just don't see them
until, I don't know, until kind of, you know,
the 17th century. You know, rounded, interesting,
fascinating characters. kinds of stories from
the Viking world. So what title would you recommend
then for us to go to? Is it the Home -Scrangler
or the Book of Kings, whatever it's called? I
wouldn't go with that. I'd go with Nyarl's Saga
or the Saga of Burnt Nyarl, which is my favourite
of the sagas. Then if Patricia or Sharon have
one you recommend. Thank you very much. I will
indeed add that to my blog list. specific names,
unfortunately, but I just went for, I just Googled
Snorri Sturluson and I got a few of them and
they're actually available online. It's like,
they're great to go through. They're brilliant
to read. Yeah. And there's Lacthyla Saga, which
is, that's a shorter one, which is maybe a nice
place to start. The people of the Valley of the
Lacks, I think. If you go to Iceland, a lot of
these places, I mean, you can visit them because
they're all, I mean, they haven't moved. They're
still there. I mean, I know, Patricia, you've
been recently in the UK visiting and touring
some sites that Emma and Canute have been to.
You went to Winchester, which of course is real,
and the cathedral has a lot of connections to
Emma and Canute, does it not? It does, it does.
I found out something recently that when I was
in, I was in Shaftesbury and when I got home,
which is where Knut died, when I got home I discovered
that there's a glass bowl and it's the only glass
bowl intact from that period and it was in Shaftesbury.
They discovered it and they think that Knut's
heart was in there and the people from Winchester
said thanks we'll have that and they They took
it to Winchester, but I didn't see it in Winchester
when I was there. They had this thing on the
Anglo -Saxons and I didn't see that. So I don't
know where it is, but I'm sure it's somewhere
in the cathedral. That was the one last thing
about the series. They gave you a Viking funeral.
Oh gosh, yes, we forgot that bit. Yes, with treasure,
there was actual treasure on that ship and I'm
like, she would not have said that to the bottom
of the sea, she would have kept it surely. But
yes, I wasn't sure if we were seeing a vision
of Emma's mind or if she really had kind of like.
put someone else in the coffin and just told
no one to open up the coffin. Don't look at the
coffin. Your father is dead. He's happier as
he is. Don't look at him. Don't look at him,
children. Kind of thing. But yes, that was an
interesting one because of course the burning
arrow just makes me think of Robin Hood because
that's the legend of him firing an arrow off
and saying bury me there. But yes, that was an
interesting one, but he didn't. in a ship. He
was genuinely buried in a Christian burial. His
bones, along with Emma's and Hathkenut's, were
in caskets in Winchester Cathedral, all happily
resting in their rightful place until the Civil
War in England, and I think it was the parliamentarians
that raided the cathedral. and started throwing
all the bones about, and then people picked them
up and cut them all mixed up. But then only just
now started being put together. I believe you
saw a woman's bones laid out in Winchester Cathedral.
Did you not, Patricia? Yes, I did. And they still
are not willing until they get actual DNA confirmation
to say that it's Emma's bones. And of course,
Sharon, I'm sure will agree with me that. their
Emma's bones, because there's only one woman
buried among those royals and bishops. And I'm
hoping that they can figure out, because they
have Hartha Knute's, Emma's and Knute's, that
they can do some DNA research and connect the
dots, essentially, and verify that those are
Emma's bones. I believe you very kindly showed
photos of it in your newsletters, which people
do subscribe to. She's always showing wonderful
tales and adventures. It's interesting to see
how it's not a complete skeleton by any means.
I think even her lower jaw is missing. Yes, well,
they probably picked up the skull and threw it,
but there is a real mystery because there's a
hole in the top of her head. in the top of the
skull and I have yet to be able to find anyone
who can explain that to me. I've written to the
woman who was in charge of it she's at University
Dublin now and she hasn't gotten back to me and
I'm still trying to figure I'm going to be talking
to a pathologist about showing him the picture
and saying what is that? So we'll find out or
maybe we won't find out who knows it may just
be a forever mystery. Yeah I guess it depends
on the funding and the people willing to do the
research and whether there's the the demand for
such knowledge because of course this all takes
money and time and resources and that kind of
thing but I for one if it was on Kickstarter
I'd throw money at it just saying let's get Kickstarter
going to identify the bones Kickstarter for DNA
testing of the royal family um well uh gosh we
time has flown Time has really flown and again,
I've really enjoyed talking to all three of you
about this series, the good, the bad, the in
-between, the ugly, the nice, the powerful, the
evocative, and of course, learning about the
genuine history behind all that inspired this
interpretation. Very strong word, interpretation.
of history, ladies and gentlemen. Do not go to
that series and believe you're learning everything
you need to know to do GCSE history because you're
not. By any means not. Do not quote from it.
You will confuse your teacher immensely. But
yes, they are wonderful books. I will have links
to these wonderful people down in the description
below. And of course, if you haven't seen season
three yet and have watched it till now, well...
Spoilers! We did warn you! But either way I hope
you then come back to this after watching it
and find it more illuminating. But hopefully
maybe another Viking thing will come up soon
and we will get together and talk and I'm sure
I for one am of course much awaiting Patricia's
upcoming fourth book. She is beavering away at
it and then for a fact that was why she was doing
all her lovely research visits when she was over
in England and of course Sharon's got another
new book out this year. on women in royal history.
Is it the ones in Scotland, the Scottish? Scotland's
medieval queens, it's out in January. Out in
January, there you go. Lady Macbeth opens it,
so which is why I knew about that best visit
to Rome. See, that's something I've already learnt
in later life, that the Macbeth character from
Shakespeare was a real figure. I had no idea
at all. And totally not. and totally not the
character in Shakespeare. 17 years of peaceful
rule was actually Macbeth. See they don't tell
you that when you study it in English UTSC. They
don't tell you that at all, they just make you
read all the lines and study the ins and outs
of the words but not the character's background.
And Lady Macbeth, she doesn't even get her name
in Shakespeare. She's just called Lady Macbeth,
her name's Gruul. Well she doesn't even get named.
Well, I would like to, of course, offer a great
big thank you to Patricia Bracewell, to Sian
Bennett Connolly, and the always majestic Justin
Hill for joining me in this wonderful escapade
of fiction versus fact, so to speak. And I thank
you all for your time again, and we hope you,
dear viewers, have enjoyed it as well. Thank
you very much for watching and listening wherever
you are. Thank you. Thank you. Good to see you
all.