Episode seven of Valhalla Conversations, where
I, a self -obsessed Viking fanatic and Norse
myth nut, get to talk to lots of Norse creatives,
people who neither know the subject inside out
through academic study, or have actually used
that knowledge to create art in different mediums,
from comics to films to TV series, and of course
books, as you may have guessed from my bookshelves
behind me. In today's episode, I am delighted
to welcome one of my favorite comic book artists
and writers of the day, Asa Wheatley, let me
just check, I am pronouncing that name correctly?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, perfect. It is a bone of contention
sometimes, but perfect pronunciation. Thank you
very much, it's always good to get names right
from the get -go. Asa? is the wonderful writer
and creator behind not one, not two, but three
volumes of Sheil Maiden comics. They were funded
and created especially on Kickstarter and I've
also met the lovely man himself at Thought Bubble
Comic Con, several years running. Come to Harrogate,
it's in November. Meet him there, get your books,
it's brilliant. But yes, Shieldmaiden, as the
title suggests, is all about a woman who can
wield a sword as well as a shield, although in
some cases she does also wield a spear and an
axe depending on who she's fighting and what's
available. Very versatile weapons. So I guess
for viewers and dear listeners who are new to
the wonderful collection of comics and artists
that you've worked with a whole host of, we might
as well start with the beginning. And how did
your work on Shieldmaiden begin? So originally,
I think I've got the kind of startings of it
somewhere. But originally, so I went to university
for film and TV production. And I studied that
for a few years. And at the end of that, when
I was kind of thinking that, oh, do I want to
direct? Do I want to write like films? Do I want
to kind of move into that industry? And I started
writing a short film. which eventually would
become one of the stories in the first book,
the bounty story and so that's kind of how it
started. I always had loved westerns and I always
had really enjoyed kind of like Viking history
and like Norse mythology and I wanted to do both
but couldn't. because doing one like especially
like short films I mean it's kind of the same
with comics as well but especially with short
films funding that kind of thing for one of them
would be hard enough so instead of doing them
separately I just kind of put them together I
took my love of both kind of things the western
genre and then also like the viking kind of setting
and put them together started writing something
it didn't really go anywhere I had the kind of
basis of an idea and then I put it down for a
bit when I moved away from kind of like film
industry stuff and I think I picked it back up
again a couple of years later and I thought oh
maybe I can like write a book. My writing's not
good enough to write prose. I'm too lazy sometimes.
And so I started writing comics, which has always
been a love of mine. The first thing I wrote
was Tales of Mystery, which is a noir book about
a private detective that gets trapped in the
body of a black cat. And so that was kind of
how I started making comics, realized it was
doable and I really enjoyed doing it. And so
I kind of picked Shieldmaid back off the shelf
and was like, oh, what can I do with this? I've
got this one short story. Is this enough? And
then I kind of thought, oh, what if I did it
where it's kind of that one character, but multiple
stories in both a very kind of comics way, because
there are a lot of things like that, but then
also in a very Viking way with the kind of like
sagas and... here's a story about this person
and then here's a story that's totally unconnected,
it's got nothing to do with that first story
but it's about the same like character or it's
maybe them 30 years later or something like that.
And so I quite liked that idea and then transferred
it slowly but surely into making the first book.
Wonderful and did you always have an interest
in Vikings mythology? Yeah I think so, I think
it kind of like everything that I'm interested
in. It has its hills and valleys, sometimes I'm
really really interested in it and sometimes
it's just in the background and it kind of just
like dips between. I think obviously in, I mean
especially since writing Shieldmaiden, but in
the kind of lead up to that when I first kind
of came up with the idea, that's when I kind
of got into it more and more, started reading
like more about it, more of the like sagas and
the The mythology and stuff like that as well,
and just how insanely weird it is. I especially
like that element of it. It's very, very strange.
straightforward, which is kind of a blessing
and a curse. It's, it's a very much an attraction
because I like that kind of stuff, just stuff
that's like weird. But at the same time, it's
kind of like, wait, what is going on? Like, who
is who are these people? Why has this person
changed seven times or whatever? So, but yeah,
so I've always had some kind of interest in it.
It just depends how in deep I've been, but writing
the book, I've definitely gotten more and more
like in and learned a lot. along the way as well
which has been fun. Wonderful so how did you
go about setting up with so many wonderful talented
artists on volume one? Well so volume one was
probably maybe the easiest I'm not sure. It was
back when social media was actually good and
useful and I found apart from Sammy Ward who
is my partner so working with her was very easy
and connecting with her was very easy. Everybody
else was either somebody that I had found online
via Twitter or like call -outs and that kind
of thing or somebody that I had worked with on
a previous book. So there's a lot of crossover
between the first Shield Maiden and another a
horror book, horror comic that I did called Campfire
Stories. Again, it's an anthology thing. I did
a lot of anthology comics. I found that it was
a good way for me to get something out more quickly
and work with a variety of different people where
I could I could write kind of four different
short scripts send them all to artists at the
same time and everybody works all at the same
time and so instead of waiting months or like
years for kind of a full complete issue or book
or whatever because everybody's working at the
same time is they're only working on five pages
or so or 10 pages but then suddenly you get a
50 page book because everybody's done it all
at once so I really liked that. and it was it
was a way for me to easily get stuff made especially
in indie comics it can be quite difficult to
have a continuing series with the same team all
the way through and so I found doing that for
Shieldmaiden I kind of just picked up some of
the people I'd already worked with who I knew
I liked working with and then otherwise the rest
of the people I just found on Twitter contacted
them and was like this is this is what I got
would you like to work on it and yeah and it
and it worked out and that's kind of how I've
continued to do it ever since I mean I've got
a list of like every book I do I write a list
of people I would like to work with and then
some of them I take off and some of them I just
save for the next book so it's quite a a nice
way to do it is I feel like I'm never going to
run out of people to work with. Well I think
it's worked wonderfully especially with the episodic
time jumping about timeline that you've set up
from the very first book which has about four
or five stories in it and then the volume two
has just the three but slightly longer, volume
three also has three but slightly longer in length
and it's just nice to see those different art
styles following the same character but at different
points in her life because it really does treat
them as different times, different viewpoints,
different experiences because some of them you
see kind of like some of her witty side, some
of her humor side, slightly romantic side but
she's kick -ass in nearly all of them really.
Yeah that's the theme running through everything.
Yeah I mean I think as well the and uh this is
not something I thought about beforehand but
I now retrospectively think oh yeah that's a
that's a great uh like selling point an idea
that I can't kind of take credit for but I think
the idea especially with like Viking history
because so much of it was uh like just spoken
rather than written for like so long and a lot
of it is about like uh how Viking history changes
over like the years because it is just it's spoken
and stories change as people say them like one
person tells another person tells another person
doesn't and the story changes and so I thought
it was really interesting reflecting that with
using different artists for each story that although
you know it's the same character she might look
slightly different in every story because it's
like another person is telling that story. Although
I'm writing all of them, the artist is bringing
their own version of that character in the same
way that somebody told a story and then they
tell the same story might bring their own embellishments
to it. But that was something I only realised
after doing the book. Oh, well, of course, I've
loved all three and I've happily thrown money
at you every time your plot kicks out of volume
one and volume two and three. And of course,
got these lovely exclusive A5 clips. I've got
some of them on my wall, dear viewers, so you
can't see all of them. There is more lovely artwork.
I was going to ask, a lot of volume one and volume
two seems to be more historically setting and
then it's really just a tip at the end of volume
to a big chunk of volume three is where the mythology
starts blending in a little bit. So in terms
of the historical settings and stuff, because
there are a few places and names, in particular,
I think it's in volume two, we meet Cain Asa
of, I'm going to say Denmark and you're probably
going to correct me in telling me it's Norway.
Am I right or am I wrong? I think it's Norway.
I don't have my notes in front of me. There's
not enough queens and they always get them mixed
up. But yeah, but you've got a nice little insert
at the end explaining how you came across Queen
Aysa as a historical figure and why you've ended
up using her in quite a significant way with
the life of the shieldmaid. Would you mind telling
us more about that? Yeah, yeah, of course. So
kind of on top of that, the kind of element of
adding kind of historical, like prehistory pre
-established historical stuff especially for
like Viking history like we talked about is a
lot of is is very just spoken down and so there's
a lot of Viking history that is not necessarily
100 % correct or is interpreted by different
people in different ways and I think that's a
really interesting thing for a writer to come
into to be able to be like okay well here's this
story about this person but there are four different
versions of the same story so it doesn't necessarily
mean that I can't just make a fifth version and
I quite like that it's a little bit of freedom
and it's a little less obviously there is some
stuff that Yes, historically accurate is still
important to a degree but I think especially
for fiction and for Shieldmaiden in particular
for like my writing, I wanted to be somewhat
historically accurate but not let it worsen the
stories or the book. I didn't want it to impact
too much and so yeah finding Queen Elsa and looking
at that kind of history and seeing how she's
like possibly the one of the bodies on the Osberg
ship and possibly like related to Harold Fairhair
and all that kind of stuff I just thought was
really interesting but that actually came about
because I discovered her because as you know
and as your viewers might know if they've seen
the title our names are spelt exactly the same.
She has a little overing over the first A, which
I think, I don't speak any Scandinavian languages,
but I think it gives it more of an AUSA rather
than ASA. But that's just not, that's not historically
or linguistically accurate. But I was fascinated
that I had the same name. as somebody who could
have been important in history having such a
unique name and so I originally found her because
I was going to write a little zine about people
with the same name isn't it? So I was just it
was just going to be like a small little thing
something that I could do just kind of written
and maybe a couple of like work with a couple
of artists get one or two illustrations and then
just publish it. Having a slightly more uncommon
name is always interesting to see the other people
who have it. It seems to be throughout history
in countries a fairly unisex name and so there
was a lot of kind of different sides of people
who had the same name and then I stumbled across
Queen Elsa and I was like oh this is this is
interesting and I kind of looked into learning
more about her and realizing there's not actually
that much there's kind of little bits about maybe
where she came from her start and so the the
story that's in book two is the kind of main
story that there is about her that she was taken
by this other king of a different area and he
basically kind of like took her for his wife
he already had another child but they had a child
together and then the story goes that she kind
of enlists maybe like a servant or a slave to
basically help her escape and I thought wouldn't
it be interesting if that's Shieldmaiden instead
and so I kind of I tried to keep most of it the
same but then just was like okay where does Shieldmaiden
fit in and with the kind of the general look
at how I put historical and mythological stuff
in the Shieldmaiden books as well it is a lot
of about okay what's interesting and then how
does Shieldmaiden fit into that and I don't sometimes
I don't necessarily think oh Shieldmaiden won't
fit into that so I can't include it I just worm
her in and find a way to to put her in as long
as it makes an interesting story Well, they're
certainly all interesting stories and that one
in particular was Really kind of nice because
it sees the shield made and not fighting the
silver or indeed kind of like for glory She's
fighting of her own choice. And of course out
of love because there is a Relationship that
blossoms which I think was a really nice touch
because we kind of like always think of course,
it was just always man and woman in the Viking
Age, but we don't really know because the sources
are so mixed and always written by people centuries
afterwards and those who are literate and those
who are in power and hierarchy positions more
than the common folk so we don't really know
how diverse their relationships were. But thinking
of in terms of the histories I know she goes
to a few different places I know she I think
it's in I'm gonna say out of the volume one,
volume two. I did reread them all this morning,
dear viewers, I did reread them all and they
are just as brilliant as I remembered. But there's
so many, so many stories and because the timeline
jumps, you can't always quite remember either
which volume it's in, let alone what year she's
in. But I think she sails with a group to East
Anglia. Yes, that's in book one. Book one. Yeah.
Yes and of course did you base that on kind of
like the start of the Great Heathen Army invading
or was it just a very nice convenient place because
of course a lot of that side of the UK has history
with the Vikings. Yeah so I mean there is a lot
of, although I haven't intrinsically included
the Great Heathen Army in any of the books yet,
it will probably come at some point. I've got
a little timeline of a kind of big important
Viking history events and where they fit in with
what I've done so far and so there's always a
chance that I will and that Great Heathen Arm
is something that's so big I kind of can't not
include it I think I'm gonna have to do it at
some point but yeah that one in particular I
think is set a bit earlier and is more the kind
of smaller raids that are going over but that's
also an example of kind of stories following
on from each other because that story ends and
leads almost directly into the Queen Elsa story
in book two but was not necessarily something
that is super obvious until you maybe look at
the timeline or read kind of some of the post
uh story descriptive like backup material stuff
as well yeah it's certainly kind of like i do
see the threads now forming the very intricate
and complicated tapestry that you've woven for
this wonderful character because one of my favorite
stories in volume one is and i'm going to quickly
look at my notes dear viewers give me a second
a matter of fate with art by kevin keen because
i just quite like the element of introducing
her with a CRS, a prophetess, kind of like the
Norse, believed in magic and all sorts and quite
often it was a female's domain more than a male's
domain. And that hints ever so vaguely until
you kind of like reach the end of volume three
about the special quality that the shield maiden
has and I'm trying really hard not to spoil it.
But also she and the CRS have another adventure,
equally as dramatic but not as dramatic as that
one I think in volume three so you kind of like
see them in another part of their lives together
and equally you do kind of acknowledge the Earth
Blood Burial quite nicely in volume three with
the passing of Queen Aesir so I really quite
liked that but in terms of the mythological stuff
there is a story in here called a humble shipbuilder
or the quiet shipbuilder and it actually made
me think back to your discussion about your name
and how unique it is because of course in all
three volumes we never actually hear the name
with the shield maiden she's just obviously dressed
as shield maiden often in a kind of like a derogatory
kind of like i can't believe you can wield that
sword kind of thing and of course she proves
everyone wrong but in this one that one story
she does actually take a name albeit Cephal,
which is a name I've not heard before. Does that
have some genuine linguistic history connection
to the Scandinavian language or is it just? Yes,
it does. Good. And you're going to now ask me
what it means and I don't remember. So when I
was writing that story, so A Humble Shipbuilder
is one of the earliest stories that I thought
of. It was originally going to be in book one.
but then because of, and as we dance around it,
a certain specific quality slash heritage of
the character, I didn't want to include it straight
away. So I knew that that was there from book
one. And so I was, I kind of, I wrote a very
early draft of Humble Shipbuilder. It was fairly
different but one of the parts of the kind of
like western genre as well as just kind of like
action in general, one of the parts of those
genres that I really like is the idea, it's like
the John Wick idea, it's the person who was a
very deadly person, lives a nice peaceful life
someone comes in and messes that up and then
they live to regret it. That's a genre of film
that I will enjoy forever and is also very prevalent
in in westerns and so it was why it's something
that came to me like quite early and so when
I was writing it I wanted to give her a name
that she would take on not necessarily what her
actual name is but a name that would reflect
the time that she's trying to have there and
her trying to just be a humble shipbuilder. And
if I remember rightly, and I maybe should have
looked at this beforehand, it means like peace
or peaceful or something like that. She describes
it, you like her to say those words. So yeah,
it was something, because originally, I think
originally I wrote it and she had taken her mother's
name. And then the editor I was working with
had said, oh, it's strange that she's taken her
mother's name, who earlier in the books is very
much a kind of, is a warrior, is where she gets
her warrior kind of like lifestyle from. If she's
trying to be peaceful, she wouldn't necessarily
take that name and so on. Then I kind of had
to re -evaluate what she was doing. That's a
very good point. Yeah. I just thought of it as
a like, oh, here's a cool nod. She's trying to
be someone else. But it is very much so. But
if she's trying to be someone peaceful, she wouldn't
take the name of like a great warrior who died
in battle and would... and is the reason that
she is this travelling warrior. So yeah, so I
think I kind of I did some research into like
Old Norse names. I like to try as much as I can
to use Old Norse stuff. Obviously I'm not a linguistic
scholar, so some of it is probably wrong somewhere,
but I try and use that kind of stuff. a bit more
than maybe just using kind of like modern Scandinavian
names and yeah that was the one that I found.
I think I had a list of about three or four and
that was the one that I found that I think fit
the best. So we now know that you know what her
mother's name was and we do meet her mother briefly
in a very cleverly staged I say staged. Framed
is the right word. Story in volume one where
we kind of get flashbacks of her as a youth escaping
some bad men who just decided to pick a fight
with her mum for various reasons we have yet
to learn. Her mum valiantly fights them off but
of course she's mentally wounded and she takes
up the sword and shield and carries on but it
also mirrors with her own passing which is why
there's such a timeline jump because we see both
her beginning and end all in one which is Very
interesting. But we don't really know why her
mother was fighting, who she was fighting, what
her name was. So then if the shield maiden wasn't
going to take on her mum's name in previous stories
that you may have written that we have yet to
see, do you actually already know her independent
individual name then? If not from her mum? The
shield maidens. Partially. Because of Norse culture,
Viking culture, which is still kept up in Iceland,
half of her name is dictated by her parentage,
which is great for me because that makes my life
so much easier because half of her name is chosen
already, which is in book three. but her first
name, I have, kind of like thinking up her fake
names, I have a few things that I am flitting
between. I know what it's probably going to be,
but every now and then I think, oh, maybe this
would be better. And then I kind of go back on
myself and I'm like, no, no, my original thought
is right. And because there is a there is a character
in a kind of lesser known character in Norse
mythology that she was originally going to be
based on. But I think but as the kind of it went
on, that changed and I didn't really want to
base on that. um I I so then changed that and
so dropped that name um very much trying to dance
around spoilers um but uh but yeah so I I'm like
90 % sure of uh of what her name is gonna be
but I that might change That's fine. I like them
like this was still as readers We haven't got
the complete story yet at all by all means in
these three volumes And that is why I'm delighted
to say dear viewers that he is now kick -starting
for volume 4 the link in the blurb below Throw
money at it because I certainly will And all
sorts of goodies and stories to come. So will
you be following the same format with volume
2, volume 3 of just having three slightly longer
stories? Are you going to have more individual
shorter stories? Yes, so from book three onwards,
so book four will continue. So book three has
two main stories, two slightly longer stories.
One that takes place, so Humber Shipbuilder takes
place when Shieldmaiden is... a fair bit older
and through pain and suffering the one that starts
with the death of Queen Elsa takes place when
she's much younger and so what I'm now gonna
do because I used to I loved writing anthologies
I really enjoyed that element working with different
artists but I wanted to kind of keep that but
I wanted to also move into writing more like
ongoing stories so from every book forward I'm
essentially going to follow both of those two
timelines quite canonically so each thing will
follow on from the last and they will be a bit
a bit more closer and maybe a bit easier to follow
as well rather than having three wildly disconnected
stories in time. because I just wanted to write
something that was more sequential and followed
a single story and then also like we talked about
because in book one I know where her story ends
which I did purposefully because as a writer
one of the hardest things to write is an ending
and I did it immediately and I know now don't
have to worry about it. I just get to write the
fun bit. I just get to write all of the middle
and not have to think about, oh, how am I going
to like wrap all this up? Because I've done it
already. I just need to get there. So it's yeah,
it's going to continue with two stories, a younger
and an elder. And then there will be one shorter
story in the middle. And that will be the same,
my plan, at least that will be the same for all
of the continuing books that I do. So every issue
will be like that. It will have the younger timeline.
the older timeline and then a story in the middle
that kind of takes place at anywhere in her life.
Sometimes it will be a story that relates to
one of the other two stories and sometimes it
would just be something interstitial that maybe
relates in theme but not necessarily in characters
or in story. But yeah, so that's my plan is to
now all of the books will be three stories, two
following a specific timeline. each and then
one free reign one in the middle. That sounds
delightful and I can't wait just for more just
like you've got my support and my money from
volume one all the way through because as I was
talking to you before we started recording I
couldn't quite remember when volume one came
out so how long has it been now? So I'm pretty
sure the first book came out in 2020. So I think,
yeah, I think I ran the Kickstarter in maybe
May of that year. I then remember being at the
digital version of Thought Bubble that they did
that year and having book one for that and then
I did book two the year after. So that'd be,
so 2021 and having it at the first Thought Bubble
that I attended in person as an exhibitor, I
remember having the first two books. So yeah,
it was, I'm pretty sure it was 2020 was when
it started. So almost a book a year, not quite.
That makes sense because I've got a vivid memory
now of me either holding my then baby girl or
having her in my tummy when I got volume one
in the post and was reading it because I remember
tweeting about it back when Twitter was a bluebird
and not an X even though it has the URL of Twitter
but I'll still always call it Twitter I just
kind of call it X. as I mentioned before mythology
definitely comes in with a bang in volume three
so going forwards will he now be kind of like
having a balance of historical events and mythological
encounters or would he be taking her more on
historical timeline as she moves forward? Yeah
I think it will always be a mix of both, it will
be whatever the stories dictate and wherever
I kind of want to take the character next. So
the mythological element of her life is very,
as shown in book three, is very intrinsic to
her, but so is the kind of historical element
because of her connection to Queen Elsa and those
kind of characters and so we've already seen
a little glimpse of Harold Fairhair, albeit as
a very small child, but there is always that
in the background and I think that's kind of
what my aim is, is to just have both of them
always kind of being there. Sometimes a story
might take a more mythology based term. Sometimes
it will be more linked to historical events,
sometimes it will be a bit of both. I think continuing
through the way that I'm going to with the two
timelines, it might end up that one a timeline
is going through kind of like a mythology phase
and the other timelines going through a historical
phase and maybe they'll switch around or they'll
both be the same but yeah book three I kind of
went in very heavy because they were all stories
that I so all three of the stories has some kind
of myth like mythology to it and but they were
all stories that I had thought of at least when
I was working on book one and book two, but I
knew I couldn't write them yet because I needed
that reveal to happen. I needed to write through
pain and suffering first before I could write
any of the others. So knowing it was going to
be in book three, I thought, okay, well, let's
go whole hog and let's just put three mythology
based stories in this one because the first two
books there is. like some historical based stuff,
there's some stuff that I've just kind of invented.
It's a mix of places I've invented and places
that might have really existed. I know what book
four is because I've written them and I'm getting
the art in and book four is definitely more historical
than mythology. but there is that mythology always
kind of hanging over like the character and yeah
I've got a word document of maybe like one or
two lines describing a story and I've got a word
document that every single time I go to write
a book I add to that document rather than take
away from it. The document gets longer. So yeah,
I've got a lot of stories to come and some of
them are very mythology based. So yeah, it was
definitely something that will be continuing.
Because without giving too much away, those viewers
and readers who may be familiar with the Lay
of Thrim, that has a slight appearance of sorts
in this book in not the traditional way, it's
very outside of the central myth. But that's
always been my favourite. So when I saw a certain
character mention a certain god in a certain
wedding dress, I was like, yes, I know that one
is my favourite. So I guess that brings me onto
my next question. Are there any myths that are
your favourite that you kind of like absolutely
love or do you just like all of them? Like how
deep did you go into reading all the great adventures
and chaos at all? Your question is better than
the answer that I'm going to give. So I think
for the most part, I will read bits and pieces
and I'll just read. like kind of Norse and Viking
stuff for entertainment as well as for for research
although now it's kind of it's always research
no matter what my intention is it's always accidentally
researched but I find that a lot of times I will
actually it will be when I'm thinking about what
I'm going to do next so the interstitial story,
the shorter story in book three, sorry, about
the wolf. That came from because I read an article
or like a historical essay about wolves and I'm
gonna spoil it a little bit. because there's
no way to talk around it and werewolves in Norse
culture and I saw it and I was just like oh wow
this is something that I just like didn't know
about at all and there's so much of Norse mythology
and like Viking history that although I know
some of it there's loads that I have like no
idea about or what their view on this thing was
or and so seeing the werewolf thing I was kind
of like oh wow that's that's really cool and
really strange and different. And so I was kind
of like, oh, I've got to find a way to incorporate
that. And it tends to be a lot of my writing
tends to be, I'll see something and then it will
just, it will kind of like spark a little bit
of an idea. And, and so with Humble Shipbuilder
with Fire Mirror, I had the idea for Humble Shipbuilder
first. and then he fit in as a good antagonist
and I very much enjoy his story with Thor and
like the wedding and I kind of read a version
of it or I read it and it was kind of just like
oh yeah and then it happens and then it ends.
I guess moves on or yeah something happens and
there's not massively a conclusion because he's
not the more interesting of the characters and
so I was kind of thought oh what would like what
would his retaliation be um and and yeah and
I just I found that so I don't know if there's
necessarily at the moment there's I don't know
if there's necessarily something that I would
definitely go oh I want to include this but like
if I'm writing book five and that week I happen
to read about a certain element of north mythology
or I read one of the stories or I'm just kind
of reminded of oh yeah do you remember that time
that Loki did this insane thing I might be like
oh that would actually fit perfectly into this
thing that I'm I'm writing so so yeah it's not
necessarily a I'll choose them that far in advance
it will be as I'm working on stuff and I think
how does how can I work in some mythology or
I'll just read something like the werewolf thing
and go that's cool I need to write a story about
that. I guess that's going to be my next question
kind of like how far in advance if at all have
you plotted regarding book four which of course
is more or less I presume scripted at least,
and being worked on by artists, which we will
discuss at a very soon, Debrary Artists. I haven't
forgotten you because I love your art. But obviously
with your jumping timeline and you having to
navigate that and make sense for you as the writer
and then make sense for us as the reader, do
you know what stories you might feature in book
five, say, or book six, or are you just kind
of doing it with one volume at a time? So I have
a loose general plan to ten. A lot of my writing,
my plans differ from my final results. Like we
were talking about, book one originally was going
to include stories that are in book three. And
there are stories that I planned for book one,
but I still haven't gotten to yet. So it really
does depend when I plan stuff, but I've kind
of got the vague uh more the thematic plans up
to maybe 10 I'd say um and yeah book four is
all written and I'm getting art in uh as as we
speak and so that's all kind of sorted story
wise Book five I have plans for because of like
you say the kind of especially in the first two
books the timeline isn't necessarily always as
as clear as it is in the third book which is
exactly why I put a literal timeline in the third
book because I have a like an excel document
where I have the Shieldmaiden's life timeline
written out and marked by books and that kind
of oh this happens in book one, this is a thing
that happens in like actual Viking history, here's
a moment that I want to get to but I know is
important but I just haven't got to yet. So yeah
so I have a personal timeline too so that I can
keep track because I don't think I would be able
to otherwise. and and yeah in terms of so yeah
four is done on my part pretty much it's just
art and then it'll be letters five i have an
idea of the stories that i would like to put
in but if while i'm working on them something
more important uh in terms of the character kind
of like pops up or i think about should be there
um then that is why i will kind of shift it to.
It has made it slightly both easier and harder
knowing that the stories are going to more directly
follow on from each other because in the first
two books I had the luxury of oh I want to write
a book about a story about this it doesn't really
connect to any of the other stories but I want
to write it and I can because all of the stories
are set in wildly different time periods. Whereas
having the the kind of more strict, like, oh,
this is going to follow on, means that I know
where the character is left. So I know where
the character is going to start the story or
who she's going to maybe be with or where she's
going to be. But it restricts me a bit more to
I can't just go, oh, well, I want to write this
story. And then I look at my timeline and I go
over that. happens 50 years later or something
like that and it's like okay well I can't write
that story now I have to wait a little bit or
I write it in the elder time line rather than
the younger and so yeah I I've planned vaguely
a fair bit ahead and yeah like I said earlier
I've got a document of stories that are either
titles just titles and nothing else or a one
or two sentence description of what is going
to happen in it and quite often when I start
writing a new Shieldmaiden book I will look at
that list and go right is there anything from
here that will immediately work and fit what
I'm trying to achieve because I still want as
much as they are continuing narratives I still
want each book to be kind of approachable as
the first book that you read. so that you can
look at it and go oh well yes if you've read
book one two and three you're definitely going
to get more out of reading book four but if you
read book four without any of the previous knowledge
i still want it to be understandable and you
to be able to follow even if you're just following
it from the idea of oh these are three separate
stories about this one character kind of like
they're presented in the first book. So yeah.
That's a very kind of like great deal of fairness
to any new readers coming along because of course
hopefully with Kicks Out Of Four now live, I'm
going to throw money to soon as this video goes
live, people will be able to order back copies
I assume of one, two, three? Yes, so yeah I've
got digital and physical like copies of the first
three volumes as well as the fourth one. Brilliant.
And what artists are you working with on volume
four? Oh, now you're gonna make me pronounce
names that I've only ever seen written. Right,
so I'm working with Laura Halsby who did work
on, they did a pinup for book three and I've
been wanting to work with them a while. And so
they are working on a story that is set in the
younger Shield Maidens timeline that takes place
just after Through Pain and Suffering from book
three. They are being coloured by JP Jordan,
who did the colours on Through Pain and Suffering.
I very much, when I work with someone I like
working with, tend to work with them again, as
you can see from both of those. Then there is
a story that is in the Elder timeline that is
taking place just after the story from book one,
Bounty Paid, if I remember the titles correctly.
So it takes place just after that and that will
be illustrated by Rachel Todd. who is a British
artist that I've seen, I can't remember what
her book was called, I think it's called Metal
Saga, that could be wrong, but a very cool kind
of like fantasy -esque book that I read that
I really enjoyed and then the smaller interstitial
story that's set kind of outside of those two
timelines. is going to be illustrated by a French
artist who, first name's easy, Alice, and I think
it's Lecette. And then they are going to be coloured
by a colourist that I worked with on book two
called Fabi Marquez. And she will be, or they
both will be working on a story set in the middle
that is set back when Shilmaiden is a bit younger
than either of the timelines and when she's with
Queen Elsa so it's kind of like a story that's
more thematically appropriate for the book and
it's just kind of showing them and their life
together because obviously from book three we
know that she dies at the beginning of book three
so this is obviously taking place before that,
kind of in between book two and book three. Fabulous.
Oh, that all sounds very exciting. I look forward
to seeing both the returning artists and the
new artists and lettering and the colouring because
they're all so distinctive. I think that's why
I quite liked my notes keep disappearing where
are they a matter of fate i keep wanting to say
when fate decided but it's not quite the same
title in that one just because it was so striking
out of all the other stories in that but there's
one question that's always been teasing my mind
and it'll be interesting to see whether you can
and what your answer is when deciding to do this
do kind of like a western style Viking saga adventure,
did you always intend for it to be a woman and
thus a shield maiden when it could have easily
just been a lone Viking warrior going off and
having these ventures? What made you decide to
make her a woman? That is a great question that
I don't think I have an interesting answer to.
She was always a woman. There was never a point
where I kind of like changed her sex at all or
swapped it around. I just thought it was more
interesting. Although they are historically debated,
I thought it was interesting that it's one of
the cultures where female fighters are slightly
more accepted, whether historically accurate
or not. I've seen a lot of stuff either way.
I don't really have a kind of interesting, oh,
this is definitely why I did it. I wanted to
show this thing. I just thought it was cool.
Because I guess it leads me to my second one,
like, did you do much research into Shield Maidens
within the original source text or even kind
of? I guess mythology to a degree because I've
read a lot of Norse fantasy and I am finding
more and more baking in comics and there is one
I'll mention to you to see if you've actually
come across that one which has echoes of yours
to a degree. Is it eternal? Read that one, yes,
but there's another one called Sword Daughter.
Okay, I've not heard of that actually. I will
pull it off myself. It echoes yours a lot. Oh
okay cool cool cool. It's got a similar theme
and of, without spoiling too much, a daughter
of a father who is shamed when his village gets
burned and they lose their mother and she decides
to take up his sword and again that timeline
jumps about a lot but it doesn't kind of like
get mixed up it just takes leapfrogs throughout
her life so you kind of see her go up and become
very much a shield maiden like this one. Oh cool.
And it also deals with the same kind of like
pagan versus Christians because I do like that
you've acknowledged that even from the very first
story in volume one. Yeah. So I remember there
was that, I think, I think your name was Freydis?
I can't remember the other character, the shield
maiden helps. Oh Ingrid. Ingrid, thank you, thank
you. But she, well she and us you, because it's
your words, put it so well about how the Christian
culture is taking over. the Norse one, and so
that soon they'll all be left his stories. I
thought, oh guys, it's so poignant, so powerful,
just so in a nutshell of what they must have
felt like. So that was something actually that
when I was adding in the kind of the Western
genre elements of the stories, that was something
that I kind of really latched onto as well, because
it's very similar to a period of kind of like
early like Western American history called the
Taming of the West and it's the idea of civilized
people coming over to America and taming the
Wild West, like bringing in industry and what
they perceive to be like civilization and I've
found it very much reflected the idea of Christians
going into kind of more like pagan places and
bringing Christianity with them and kind of like
forcing it upon and changing the culture for
their own their own gain essentially and I thought
that was really interesting how it reflected
in both the idea of the Wild West being changed
and then also Norse Scandinavia being changed
I thought they reflected each other really well
so wanted to make sure that that was a thread
that was kind of constantly there even if it's
not necessarily in every story it's something
that is is aware of because it's something that
is also in kind of slightly more likely in a
matter of fate where the Jarl talks about the
King becoming Christian and wanting uh the like
the vulva and the people who practice like the
savor magic to be eliminated um and it isn't
necessarily done by the yarl as something of
like oh i must do this because i like it is my
faith now uh it's more done as a oh i i gotta
do this because if i do it will impress the guy
who is christian um and and i thought that was
really interesting and kind of having that lie
there in the background of that's how the world
is starting to change and I think especially
in the older Shieldmaiden timeline as we kind
of like get further into that that will probably
become a bit more prevalent as that change begins
to happen in her world as well as it did historically.
I remember reading that and it was just the way
he phrased I think excuse me, it's like oh when
they come to baptises let us sacrifice this vulva
to show much how much we love their new garden.
I'm thinking that's so backwards and equally
I don't think the monks and the priests coming
to baptise you will find it that appealing but
yeah if you want to do that go for it kind of
thing but it's true it makes me think of a historical
anecdote and I'm probably going to get the king's
name wrong it was when France wasn't France but
separate feudal kingdoms and it was united under
Charlemagne and then when he died it passed to
his three sons. I think one of them was called
Charles the Bald and I remember reading in one
of my many historical books up above mine but
he was trying to appease the Vikings to not basically
raid his lands he said oh come baptize you and
then we'll welcome you to faith and look you
can get this nice silk robe as you do and so
they kept coming back he'd like me baptizing
the same people because they'd come get the robes
go again come and get the robes and go again
he ran out of robes which i just thought i thought
that's the vikings they are opportunists they
are the magpies of humanity i do often think
they're the most adaptable and everything. But
going back to why she's a shield maiden, did
you do any research into shield maidens in history?
Because of course you've mentioned how it is
debated and in 2017 the Burka warrior became
a warrior to warrior s because science evolved
and actually did better coding on their DNA and
bones and whatnot. She's one of very very few
and of course it's a matter of debate because
although she was buried with these things we
don't know if they were hers or if she just likes
them. Yeah so I mean I definitely did some. I
didn't want to get bogged down in, again like
we kind of talked about earlier, getting bogged
down too much in, oh this has to be perfectly
historically accurate, because if it did none
of the books would exist. and so I kind of I
did some I did enough I think that I was I was
confident to write the character and knowing
especially from the first book knowing that it
was always going to enter a like kind of mytho
mythology area I felt kind of a bit freer uh
with what i could do um but yeah i mean i uh
this was actually after i had already started
but i read a really interesting book that i'm
gonna not remember what it's called i think i
think it's called valkyrie the like life and
times of viking women or something like that
oh oh i've got it i'm sure you i'm sure you probably
do yeah i have valkyrie this one This one? Yes,
that one. I've literally just finished reading
it. I've had it since 2020, it's taken me a while.
Parenthood viewers, it ruins your reading. But
yeah, I thought that was really interesting and
her, if I remember rightly, her view is very
much that there weren't Viking warriors but that
women were important in a different way and they
still had they still had restrictions and that
they still also had kind of things that they
could do that in the rest of the Western world
were very uncommon. And so I thought that was
really interesting, but I did read that after
the fact. But yeah, I did, like with all of Shieldmaiden,
I did some historical research, but I'm not a...
historian by any means. I write made -up stories
so I kind of I let it inform things but I don't
necessarily let it massively restrict me too
much. I think that's why Norse fantasy dominates
my bookshelves because it is It's different interpretations,
different uses, the mythology and indeed the
history because they're both so entwined with
each other. You can't really have Vikings without
Thor. We can't have a horned helmet without having
a shieldmaiden. Although shieldmaidens are probably
more slightly accurate than a horned helmet,
which is definitely not. There's no such thing
as a horned helmet. That's seemingly the only
thing that... uh every uh everyone who has a
mild interest in Viking history is agreed on
that horned helmets never existed that's like
the only one that everybody is on the same level
everyone's like yes this is the one thing but
everything else is like always up for debate
some things are different depending on which
translation um but yeah I do find it funny that
that is the one thing that everyone's like no
horned helmets are wrong and I think That's why
I like Norse fantasy in particular, although
I do like my historical fiction, I've got loads
of that above my shelf as well. Just the way
we can experience their culture and their world,
both historical and mythical, through either
having different points of view, different narrators,
different contexts. And the way I've always described
fantasy, it's the ideal environment where you
ask the question, what if? and then you can get
the answer and run with it because there's no
one in the realm of fantasy that can say no that
didn't happen because it's fantasy it's made
up it's imaginary but it explores so much of
what makes us all human because nearly so besides
like shield maidens a lot of my historical fiction
is mainly the men it's always the men that go
raving have adventures there are there are female
characters but they don't necessarily get as
proactive as this one does The only other type
of female character that does get his act of
a seal maiden is Valkyries who feature a lot
in about 14 out of my 99 red lists so far and
I just love how they, especially with their role
of how they kind of like interact with the human
world in the afterlife, at the point of death
to the afterlife, they act as the ideal character
that can explore both the human world and the
mythological at the same time because they do
cross that border, they can go in between. It's
so interesting to see where Shieldmaiden goes
now that she knows a certain thing. I think it's
also interesting as well that and it is the same
for a lot of Viking history but the idea of how
kind of popular the Valkyries have like become
but how little there is actually about them in
kind of like Norse and Viking history is very
interesting and I think think that is almost
key to their popularity is that because there's
so little very specific stuff about them they
can be interpreted in like a wide variety of
ways and I think there's a there's a lot of stuff
that you can do that with Viking history there's
not like this plethora of like very exact up
-to -date very strict records of this happened
exactly then and this was done by this person
and that kind of thing and it does make and then
because the mythology side of Norse culture is
very intrinsically linked with their history
it makes writing it historically very difficult
because there's always going to be an element
of that mythology in there but if you are like
doing it as a more fantasy realm which the sheer
maiden books essentially are. It does make it
easy when it gives, especially I feel as a writer,
it gives me a lot more freedom to be okay with
dropping some of the historical stuff and going,
oh yeah, we're gonna just delve into mythology
very deeply here. and it doesn't feel out of
place. I think that was something that I really
wanted to make sure was I didn't want to, especially
with book three has so much of it. I didn't want
to have book three come out and it be like, oh,
this is like changed entirely. And it's like
a wildly different book now. I wanted it to always
still feel the same. But then it's just, oh,
there is some mythology to this this character
in this story. And it's something that you can.
still continue with without feeling like the
book has changed drastically. Yeah I think you've
captured that really well and the jump isn't
too much of a jump when it comes because it's
dropped out in different hints throughout all
three volumes and of course I'm eager to see
where it goes next in volume four but it's made
me think kind of like the way the Vikings heard
these stories or told them it was very much almost
like a lived experience, like it's kind of like
it's thunder and lightning, oh it's going to
be Thor knocking giants, oh there's big waves
on the beach, oh it's Rann's daughters doing
a frenzy and kind of thing. I mean even in Iceland,
even today when they build new roads, and I'm
not sure if this is an urban myth but it's one
I'm going to stick to, I'm sure they check for
fairy mounds or even offering to the fairies,
or they dig around fairy mounds and never disturb
the fairies, never disturb the fairy. That's
a strange thing as well but it just shows how
these beliefs and traditions and perceptions
carry on, and one of the things about the Norse
legends in particular, they've been so able to
stay so prevalent in society for tens, more or
less a full millennium, also at least, since
at least Iceland became Christian in 1080. It's
just their adaptability, they're as adaptable
as the people themselves are. to just surviving,
keeping going and that kind of thing and I love
it and I loved it especially when I came across
it through but I mean I love the Viking Age history,
I love the mythology and you bring it so together
beautifully in your writing and working with
so many different talented artists and I cannot
wait for volume four. Will there possibly be
any chance of you having them at Thought Bubble
Comic Con this November? That is the plan, yeah
that is the plan. So the Kickstarter is now and
then I'm hoping that for Thoughtbubble will be
the kind of like physical launch. I'll get everything
shipped out to backers and then yeah I'll have
them in my hand ready to show people at Thoughtbubble
in November. yes so there you go you've heard
it dear viewers and dear listeners if you want
to go meet Acer in person to pick up any of the
volumes i'm sure it'll have a selection of one
two and three on display as well and of course
get your copy signed so you don't you if you
don't want to do the kickstarter that's fine
i won't begrudge you but go to Thought Bubble
Comic Con anyway because there's not just Acer
there there's thousands of really wonderful artists
and creatives there and it's if you love comics
and comic art and comic writing Thought Bubble
is the place to go MCM doesn't have a smidge
on Thought Bubble Comic Con it really doesn't
and that's in November in Harrogate. Gosh well
we have talked about so much and I'm run out
of questions amazingly because we've leapfrogged
around so different ideas and themes and issues
and thank you again for creating this wonderful
series. I wish you the best of luck with volume
four. I hope the Kickstarter flies off like Valkyrie
into the sunset and brings glory and fame to
you and the wonderful artists you've been working
so delicately with over the next month and months
to come as it all gets pulled together so beautifully.
The link will be down below. Listeners and readers
go click go throw money at it even if it's just
a pound just to keep him going because I certainly
will. and yes it's available via the Kickstarter
or go see Acer at Thoughtbubble in November.
Thank you very much for joining me Acer. Thank
you very much for having me it has been lovely
to chat all things Shilmin. Thank you I've really
enjoyed it.