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Welcome, dear viewers, to episode six of Valhalla

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Conversations, where I, my self -confessed Viking

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obsessive, Norse mythology geek, interview my

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favourite Norse creatives. And one of my special

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guests today, I'm delighted to announce, is Tessie

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Grattan, one of my favourite authors of the United

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States of Asgard series. Here are her lovely

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books. Just peeking up behind me, all four, anthology

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of short stories as well. So yes, do go buy them,

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borrow them, download them, listen to them on

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audio podcasts. I also have done that and it's

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equally still as good as reading the book. So

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I've invited Tessa here to talk about her wonderful

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books, United States of Asgard, and I guess I'll

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hand it over to you, Tessa, because if someone's

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just heard that name, United States of Asgard,

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yep, Asgard, not America people, Asgard. How

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would you explain the universe that you encapsulate

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so well in your books to new potential readers?

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Sure, thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm

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really excited to be here talking about this

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series. It's been a long time since I've focused

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on it, so hopefully I'll remember everything

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accurately. The United States of Asgard is an

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alternate America, an alternate history where

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when the Vikings first came to North America

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and landed on Newfoundland, they stayed instead

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of leaving again. And so it was the Vikings and

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their gods and monsters who are very real because

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this is a fantasy. They are the ones who essentially

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conquered and colonized North America. So that's

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the initial world pitch, I guess. And the first

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book follows a young man who's 17, his name is

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Soren, and he is a berserker. And he does not

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want to be because his father was also a berserker.

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And when Soren was about 10 years old, his father

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lost control of his berserking frenzy in a shopping

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mall and killed 13 or so innocent people. And

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so Soren really fights the frenzy that he feels,

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and he does not trust Odin, who is supposed to

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be the god he is dedicated to. Well, if that

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hasn't hooked in dear viewers and dear readers,

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I don't know what will. Hopefully the rest of

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this episode will indeed convert you all. Because

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I personally, having read this as it was like

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some years ago when I first read this, in fact

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Facebook reminded me yesterday that yesterday

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was the day I ordered it on Amazon. So that's

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how long ago it was. It's now a Facebook memory,

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but it's always been on my shelf of favourites,

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always has been. But it's a world that I find

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so rich, so incredibly deep. I think I once wrote

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to a friend as if you know how deep the world

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is for Lord of the Rings. This is how deep Tessa's

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gone with the world of the Knights of Asgard

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because it's so believable. It's so normal, yet

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not normal, but not in a startling, mind -bogglingly

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alien way. for example, The Gods Are Real, you've

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got actually them kind of working in collaboration

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of sorts with the humans. I know when I reread

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both The Lost Sun, which is the first book about

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Soren, and the second book, The Strange Maid,

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which is my personal favourite because it's got

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Valkyries in it and that's like my catnip. I

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mentioned the word Valkyries and I'll go for

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it, which is about Cygni. You've kind of got

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how I can't remember which president it was.

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I think it began with Thomas Jefferson, maybe

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not Thomas Jefferson, but he had almost like

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a riddle contest with Odin and that's how the

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gods ultimately lost their overwhelming power

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because the gods actually lost a riddle match

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to a human and that's why they work together.

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There's so many aspects to your world and I guess

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my first question is Where did these ideas come

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from? How did you decide to rewrite history effectively

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and remake the world in this most wonderful way?

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It is both really, of course, like long and complicated

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and also very, very simple. And so I'll tell

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you the simple version first. It was when I was

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in graduate school, so I was 24. And I was really,

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really angry all the time. I'm still very angry

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person. I like to argue. But this was during,

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it was 2004, 2005. And so it was really in the

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immediate aftermath of 9 -11 and the Iraq war

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and the 2004 election, which was when George

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W. Bush was re -elected. And it was really awful

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for its own really specific reasons. And I was

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in graduate school studying public policy and

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gender. And I was trying to write a thesis about

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the way the culture wars in America were influencing

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policy, particularly from a gendered lens and

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about like sexuality. And I was just so angry.

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And also, I'm the kind of person who, you know,

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when people say, well, when you go to dinner

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with strangers or friends, the two things you

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should never talk about are religion and politics.

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But those are the only things I ever wanted to

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talk about. And so I was I was just thinking

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about when I started writing books. I was thinking

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about how do I write a book about America, about

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the religion and politics and the way those things

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in America are so fundamentally linked, even

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though we pretend that they're not, without people

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being angry at me all the time. Like, I can't

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criticize Jesus, but you know who I can criticize?

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Balder. You know, like I, so I basically came

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up with this idea to write and talk about the

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kinds of things that I wanted to analyze in America

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from a fantastical point of view. And that is

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the, like that is what made me start down the

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road. So that's the simple, I know I just talked

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for like four minutes and that's really interesting.

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At the same time in graduate school, I was very

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unhappy with the program that I was in and I

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was really frustrated with not being able to

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find mentors who were interested in the aspects

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of gender studies and feminism really that I

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was interested in writing about and studying.

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And I hit this point where I was like, I need

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to take some classes that have nothing to do

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with my degree. And so I looked at what they

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offered, like what random things do they offer

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here that I'm interested in. And I found a professor

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who was teaching old English and I could take

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three trimesters. We were on a trimester system

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there. The first two were learning the ins and

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out of the language and learning how to translate.

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And then the third trimester was focused just

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on translating Beowulf. And I was like, this

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is it. This is the most niche English thing I

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can think of to do that they offer here. And

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so while all of this was going on, while I was

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being really angry at politics and trying to

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figure out my life and what to write about, I

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was learning how to translate and read Old English

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and then did a real deep dive into beta wolf

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itself and that really led me down the path that

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would eventually bring me to Norse mythology

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and the history of how the cultures of, you know,

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the Norse cultures really influenced from the

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UK and then into America. And I mean, you can

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really straight line from the war culture of

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the ancient North to the war culture of 2005

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United States of America. And the things that

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the poetry really highlights are things that

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I was seeing the politicians in the news highlighting,

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you know, the way that they talk about fallen

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warriors and warriors going across the sea to

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fight somewhere else were directly reflected

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in these you know 1600 year old poems so it really

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was it seemed very obvious to me at a certain

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point that I could write about America on every

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level from a fantastical like viking ultimate

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music history perspective. So it was very organic

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in a lot of ways. Well that sounds like a remarkable

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opportunity and I know from rereading Strange

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Maid about Signe, the young want to be Valkyrie

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who gets, I keep saying that word on Valkyrie

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not Valkyrie, I've always pronounced the I more

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than the E and I know that's wrong but it's just

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a habit I need to learn, just learn. But she

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gets given a basically a prophecy supposedly

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by Odin left on the world tree where she first

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meets him when she's grieving for the loss of

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her parents and they have a strange connection

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almost and he challenges her to become the ninth

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valkyrie of the tree because there hasn't been

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one for some time and it's really only as you

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learn through the books learn the amazing history

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that you've given. this amazing present alternative

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present -day world that you've given where the

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Valkyries have been involved in all sorts including

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like the civil war over the lots of slavery.

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I thought it was really interesting how when

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you learn about that through the characters they

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take it's like it's Odin wanting to keep the

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old ways it was Thor and this one renegade of

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sorts Valkyrie who wanted to say that no we just

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can't keep keeping them as slaves it's just kind

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of like wrong. Because, of course, I'm working

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on a very secret project. I can't quite tell

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you all yet, dear viewers. Tessa and one, maybe

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two other three people know. Very small, very

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small circle, but I'm waiting for it to be more

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officially confirmed. But it is closely linked

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to that particular book, and I'm not going to

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say why. But even though I thought I was looking

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for one thing in your book, the Beowulf theme

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kept coming through more and more clearly. And,

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of course, you do seem to almost... reenact it

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within that alternative context which of course

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I love because I've never studied Beowulf. I

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remember seeing the Beowulf CGI film with Angelina

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Jolie and the other British guy that I can't

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remember the name of that is in all the films.

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That's the only kind of like version I know and

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even that gave me nightmares because their version

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of Grendel was so grotesque it was just oh it

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just put me right off but I know the basics of

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the story although There was the lady that you

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tend to pick upon through the character of Cygni

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in that book. It begins with a V and you're going

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to have to pronounce it for me if you can remember

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Tessa because I want to say Belethal but I'm

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not sure if that's it. That is how I changed

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it for the book. That would be an older version

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of it. Her name in Beowulf is Welthal. It's W

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-E -A -L, then I think the thorn. But so it's

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the old English version. So her name in English

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actually starts with a W, which is very common

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when you see the transition from the Icelandic

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languages when it becomes English. I can't remember

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what the transition is called. But, welk fél.

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is her name, is the wife of King Hroskar in Beowulf.

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And so that is the character that I played with

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the history for The Strange Maid. And it is Val

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Fiel in the book, my book. Yes, it's certainly

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more pronounceable. It certainly makes sense

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when you think about how the Anglo -Saxons called

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it all Wodan. instead of Odin. Yes, that makes

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sense. But yes, and that particular book, of

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course, Cygni is given this challenge. She's

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got to fulfil this prophecy, but it's also a

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bit of a riddle at the same time. And she really

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struggles with it. She ends up putting it down.

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And then she comes across a character called

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Ned the Restless, I want to say. I can't quite

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remember. Spiritless. Spiritless. That was it.

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Sorry. It's been a while. I have read it, Davey,

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I have. It's just been a few weeks since. And

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as I am a mum, my memory is shot. All I can remember

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is toddler things and not anything else. But

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yes, I liked his character simply because it

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was, it was almost like a nice homage to the

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work and efforts of the Scalds of that era and

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the work that they did capturing these stories

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and telling them to audiences as well as kind

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of like honour art. honorific poetry for kings

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and queens and great warriors and the like and

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of course who knows what scowls tell Beowulf

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back in the day because often no one knows who

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wrote Beowulf which is the greatest mysteries

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of our time I think. But I really liked it and

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of course Soren does actually make a return.

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from book one into book two and of course book

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three which is the apple throne which is about

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the other character which we haven't yet mentioned

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which does also feature in the first one so there's

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a nice flow of characters from one to the other

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dear readers you don't always have to know them

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all is Astrid and she herself has quite an amazing

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backstory as a vulva as a CRS or being the daughter

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of one who then mysteriously vanishes. and I'm

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trying not to spoil it here but at some point

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the goddess Freya gets involved. Now this is

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the one thing I remember picking up with you

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way back in the day when I first read it was

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how you've adapted Freya to also kind of represent

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the goddess Hel as well because you've got a

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good number of the key gods in there but of course

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there's quite a broad pantheon. Quite a broad

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pantheon. But I found your... version of Freyja

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quite interesting and almost refreshing in that

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she has got this darkness to her from not just

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kind of like being the goddess of the dead to

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a degree but of what she can do and influence

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and foresee that Odin can't. So how did you kind

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of address or create that wonderful balance or

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imbalance of gods and goddesses? Keeping in mind

00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:40.799
that I did most of this world -building work

00:16:42.860 --> 00:16:46.820
at least 15 years ago. Yes. That's fine, that's

00:16:46.820 --> 00:16:49.519
fine. Don't worry, we all forget things. A lost

00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:56.360
son came out in 2011. And I'm sorry, in 2013.

00:16:56.580 --> 00:17:00.100
And so the bulk of the work that I was doing

00:17:00.100 --> 00:17:02.200
developing the world was probably between like

00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:14.240
2008 and 2013. So I did a real like several years

00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:22.220
of slow deep dive into the history and archaeology

00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:27.799
of like Norse mythology. So I read everything

00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:31.660
I could get my hands on, of course, the epic

00:17:31.660 --> 00:17:37.299
poems and everything that was written by Snorri.

00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:51.559
Yes. I read all of these translations, everything

00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:55.559
I could get my hands on, and I also read a bunch

00:17:55.559 --> 00:18:01.140
of archaeological books by people who have actually

00:18:01.140 --> 00:18:04.880
gone and looked at, okay, here's what we actually

00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:08.359
think. the culture was like and here's how we

00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:12.059
can trace like the first time we think Odin was

00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:17.220
mentioned on a rune stone and how old these different

00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:24.380
gods seem to be and from what I remember uh Snorri

00:18:24.380 --> 00:18:28.039
Sturlson basically made up 80 percent of what

00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:31.500
we think of as Norse mythology. And of course,

00:18:31.539 --> 00:18:33.740
he didn't pull it out of nowhere. There would

00:18:33.740 --> 00:18:35.880
definitely have been lots of stories and things,

00:18:35.900 --> 00:18:41.480
but he consolidated most of the big epic stories.

00:18:41.500 --> 00:18:45.259
And he's the one who is like Odin is the all

00:18:45.259 --> 00:18:48.279
father and Loki is a boy and things like that.

00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:51.460
And like, if you go back, you know, a thousand

00:18:51.460 --> 00:18:55.759
years before he was alive, there was you know,

00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:58.920
there were some theories that Odin and Loki were

00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:04.000
actually the same trickster god figures. And

00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:09.579
that there was the goddess of the underworld

00:19:09.579 --> 00:19:14.380
who was also a god of fate who became Freya,

00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.859
you know, as these things were developing. And

00:19:18.859 --> 00:19:21.559
of course, there's no way to really trace it

00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:27.279
because it was an oral culture. And, you know,

00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:30.740
what we have written down before Snorri came

00:19:30.740 --> 00:19:35.059
along are, you know, death monuments and good

00:19:35.059 --> 00:19:39.480
luck charms and funeral rights, you know, things

00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:43.680
like that. And so, you know, it's really hard

00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:48.500
to accurately say, well, this is how this God

00:19:48.500 --> 00:19:51.440
developed and these are how these stories developed.

00:19:54.389 --> 00:20:00.809
So it was really very easy to come in and be

00:20:00.809 --> 00:20:04.569
like, well, this is what I want. And it could

00:20:04.569 --> 00:20:08.009
be true. This could be how these gods developed.

00:20:08.329 --> 00:20:12.869
And so that's what I'm going to do. And I think

00:20:12.869 --> 00:20:17.910
Hell, the character, the goddess, was a very

00:20:17.910 --> 00:20:21.849
late addition to the campaign, from what I remember

00:20:21.849 --> 00:20:27.619
of my research. um and so it you know there would

00:20:27.619 --> 00:20:33.059
have Freya was a much older um character and

00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:36.319
so that was the basis of why I ultimately did

00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:40.240
that and also because she's connected to you

00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:48.759
know half of the dead um in the more popular

00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:53.059
mythology Yes, that's all I've ever read is that

00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:55.880
not only is she not of the Azir which Odin is,

00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.599
but she's also of the Bedir which is possibly

00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:01.240
some kind of ancient tribe that does a war and

00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:04.420
they just happen to get swapped in a prisoner

00:21:04.420 --> 00:21:06.599
of war kind of swap exchange or hostage exchange,

00:21:06.660 --> 00:21:08.740
but of course the Azir got the wrong end of the

00:21:08.740 --> 00:21:10.799
bargain because they sent Mimir back and Mimir

00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:14.660
often came back as a head. There you go. Spoilers,

00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:17.259
people. But Min Min. Min Min isn't quite in the

00:21:17.259 --> 00:21:19.400
books, but because there's just so many north

00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:21.579
guards. But kind of like speaking of kind of

00:21:21.579 --> 00:21:24.420
like how, of course, Frey has her own kind of

00:21:24.420 --> 00:21:27.799
like cedar magic in the... I want to say canonical,

00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:30.160
but kind of like the set lore that we all know

00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.799
almost is well written and recorded about kind

00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:37.279
of thing. It kind of also makes sense for her

00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:40.319
to have that kind of like prophetess, CRS type

00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:43.940
role. It really suited her, I thought. and as

00:21:43.940 --> 00:21:45.839
much as Frey has also talked about kind of the

00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:50.180
goddess of beauty and love and sexual manifestations

00:21:50.180 --> 00:21:51.759
and all sorts kind of thing I always thought

00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:55.119
she must have some kind of maybe a dark feature

00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:59.730
because otherwise why... I just think of her

00:21:59.730 --> 00:22:02.190
as a very strong woman trying to survive in a

00:22:02.190 --> 00:22:04.009
very male -dominant panic, because a lot of the

00:22:04.009 --> 00:22:05.509
gods are gone. And as you mentioned, kind of

00:22:05.509 --> 00:22:07.910
like Snorri Snilson, I always remember another

00:22:07.910 --> 00:22:10.329
favourite North Craters from mine, Joanne Harris,

00:22:10.890 --> 00:22:12.910
went to a talk of hers at Barnsley Museum in

00:22:12.910 --> 00:22:15.730
my local neck of the woods in the UK, and I remember

00:22:15.730 --> 00:22:18.349
her saying that it's really unfortunate that

00:22:18.349 --> 00:22:20.069
Snorri seems to have written more stories about

00:22:20.069 --> 00:22:22.630
the male gods than the female gods, and there's

00:22:22.630 --> 00:22:26.470
probably a reason for that. Whether he was intentional,

00:22:26.690 --> 00:22:31.519
because it seems not quite impossible, almost

00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:33.460
unfair that there were lots of oral stories about

00:22:33.460 --> 00:22:36.140
the male gods and not equally enough oral stories

00:22:36.140 --> 00:22:37.900
about the female gods because the only female

00:22:37.900 --> 00:22:42.319
story we know about Freya is her love tryst with

00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:44.420
12 doors to get the bridging of men necklace

00:22:44.420 --> 00:22:46.759
and that's about all we know and of course Eden

00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:50.019
became an apple, no an acorn and was taken off

00:22:50.019 --> 00:22:53.220
by Loki. weird betrayal of the gods then brought

00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:55.900
back again and that's and Sif had a haircut they

00:22:55.900 --> 00:22:59.019
all seemed to have like bad stories whether the

00:22:59.019 --> 00:23:01.880
victims more than kind of like the heroes. I

00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:03.920
say heroes in a very loose sense because I remember

00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:07.299
reading one legend where it's just Thor and Odin

00:23:07.299 --> 00:23:09.000
disguised as a troll and they're both on opposite

00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:10.819
sides of the river and they're both having a

00:23:10.819 --> 00:23:13.759
swearing oath making match at each other. And

00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:16.119
there was no point to that legend at all. I didn't

00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:18.779
even find it funny. I thought it was rather the

00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:20.680
minimality of the voting to kind of belittle

00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:24.339
his one, well, one of his many sons in that manner.

00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:29.400
But the one thing that I definitely do want to

00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:31.019
ask you about, or at least kind of elaborate

00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:33.200
my own thoughts and experience of, is particular

00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:37.140
in terms of... Strange Maid is how well you've

00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:39.799
not just explored but expanded upon the role

00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:42.660
of the Valkyries in all this, because they're

00:23:42.660 --> 00:23:45.359
some of the most minor characters in the pantheon

00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:47.440
and so little is known about them besides a set

00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:50.440
of names and that they collect the dead. Their

00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:53.160
name means chooser of the slain, although it's

00:23:53.150 --> 00:23:55.170
always been interesting I found from all the

00:23:55.170 --> 00:23:56.710
other Norse fantasy books I've read, whether

00:23:56.710 --> 00:23:58.930
they choose the dead at the point of battle or

00:23:58.930 --> 00:24:00.890
they go and collect them after the after the

00:24:00.890 --> 00:24:02.609
person has died kind of thing. So it's kind of

00:24:02.609 --> 00:24:05.450
like a before or after selection. And of course,

00:24:05.589 --> 00:24:08.900
they glorified. beer maidens in Valhalla bringing

00:24:08.900 --> 00:24:11.059
all the beer and ale and food around, kind of

00:24:11.059 --> 00:24:14.339
thing. But I really liked, and of course as a

00:24:14.339 --> 00:24:17.980
fan of Valkyries, just as a character of all

00:24:17.980 --> 00:24:20.660
sorts of secrets and mysteries, appreciated the

00:24:20.660 --> 00:24:24.220
way you've made them so active in the almost,

00:24:24.220 --> 00:24:27.839
I want to say priestess -like role that they

00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:31.180
have in their set temples of sorts and shrines

00:24:31.180 --> 00:24:32.980
around the United States of Asgard and their

00:24:32.980 --> 00:24:35.599
role with the dead, even though they're no longer

00:24:36.180 --> 00:24:38.059
invisible to mortal eyes they're very visible

00:24:38.059 --> 00:24:40.119
now because you don't see them just when you're

00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:41.480
dead you see them when you're alive because you

00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:43.839
can go and pray for your departed loved one in

00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:46.640
a shrine and have a valkyrie bless you i really

00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.519
really loved that whole concept it made so much

00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:53.079
sense and especially kind of not just having

00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:56.480
them as individual priestesses but also having

00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:58.740
them as a council so they kind of like advise

00:24:58.740 --> 00:25:02.640
the human people such as the president but also

00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:05.819
kind of like advised Odin because one thing that's

00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:08.339
always struck me in particular from coming across

00:25:08.339 --> 00:25:10.900
the one Valkyrie we know of from the text, the

00:25:10.900 --> 00:25:14.759
Norse text, is the Volsung saga and Brynhildr,

00:25:14.980 --> 00:25:17.039
whether she's kind of like briefly mentioned

00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:19.380
as a Valkyrie for disobeying Odin and thus she's

00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:21.640
been put on a bed and been waiting to be picked

00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:23.680
up by some fella who just happens to be Sigurd

00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:27.619
the Dragonslayer, is whether they are really

00:25:27.619 --> 00:25:30.380
truly subservient to Odin or whether they do

00:25:30.380 --> 00:25:33.660
have some of their own independent agency. and

00:25:33.660 --> 00:25:36.160
that's why I loved interviewing Kate Hatfield's

00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.039
previous episode dear viewers go watch it after

00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:41.039
this one of course after this one because her

00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:44.099
retelling is equally amazing and explores the

00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:46.839
world of the Valkyries equally in all in unique

00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:49.559
ways I've never come across the same author or

00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:51.359
different authors have Valkyries in the same

00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.319
way at all they're all different these aspects

00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:56.480
but I just really appreciate it yours just wanted

00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:00.180
you to know that. Thank you. I don't know how

00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:03.400
much you dived into the whole Valkyrie role and

00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:05.359
the solidification of what they did or what they

00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:08.759
didn't do, but I really, really liked your interpretation.

00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:18.380
Oh, thank you. I, when I was still trying to

00:26:18.380 --> 00:26:22.519
get published for the first time, I was thinking

00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:26.819
about the Norse mythology and, you know, the

00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:28.519
war culture, all these things that I've already

00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:32.700
discussed about here and Beowulf. And I started

00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:38.660
writing a historical retelling of Beowulf that

00:26:38.660 --> 00:26:42.079
followed Walthau's point of view from birth to

00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:46.660
death. And it was like this big epic thing. I

00:26:46.660 --> 00:26:50.279
ended up writing about 60 ,000 words of it. which

00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:54.319
only got to like right before Grendel was even

00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:59.319
going to show up. And the way that I was developing

00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:06.980
her was I that's when I really dug into the like

00:27:06.980 --> 00:27:12.519
historical details and ancient ideas about what

00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:16.299
it might have been like actually living in Sweden

00:27:16.299 --> 00:27:24.440
in you know the year 400. And so I was thinking

00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:29.519
about what kind of roles priestesses might have.

00:27:30.099 --> 00:27:34.859
And in addition to the seething, the prophecy

00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:38.480
stuff, you know, you have the wandering prophets,

00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:43.039
I thought, well, obviously this is a, there has

00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:49.609
to be a death cult. Most, most ancient. cultures

00:27:49.609 --> 00:27:54.130
had some kind of death cult. And, you know, Odin

00:27:54.130 --> 00:27:58.250
and the Valkyrie are really ripe for that. And

00:27:58.250 --> 00:28:01.930
so that's really when I was making all these

00:28:01.930 --> 00:28:05.990
decisions about what I thought real human women

00:28:05.990 --> 00:28:11.269
in particular, like how might they have created

00:28:11.269 --> 00:28:16.809
the mythology of the Valkyrie, like as servants

00:28:16.809 --> 00:28:20.950
of the gods, as avatars, even people who ride

00:28:20.950 --> 00:28:24.490
on wolves invisibly over a battlefield. What

00:28:24.490 --> 00:28:27.309
could be the real women who inspired that kind

00:28:27.309 --> 00:28:30.509
of thing? And so, you know, I was writing a whole

00:28:30.509 --> 00:28:36.250
book about Walthau, basically. And I put that

00:28:36.250 --> 00:28:40.390
down for a lot of reasons. And when it came time

00:28:40.390 --> 00:28:45.069
to really be working on the United States of

00:28:45.069 --> 00:28:48.089
Asgard trilogy, I knew I wanted the second book

00:28:48.089 --> 00:28:52.309
to be about a teenage Valkyrie, basically. And

00:28:52.309 --> 00:28:56.369
so I dragged up all of that stuff. And that's

00:28:56.369 --> 00:28:58.910
really why The Strange Maid is the book that

00:28:58.910 --> 00:29:03.849
it is, because I tried to write a retelling of

00:29:03.849 --> 00:29:07.480
Beowulf that took place during the time that

00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:10.559
Beowulf, if any of those things actually happened,

00:29:10.859 --> 00:29:15.599
probably would have happened around then, and

00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.660
made it modern. Like what would a modern Valkyrie,

00:29:19.819 --> 00:29:23.180
what might her opinions be about the stories

00:29:23.180 --> 00:29:31.250
of Beowulf and Valkyrie from back then? You mentioned

00:29:31.250 --> 00:29:35.410
the covenant already, the Thomas Jefferson riddled

00:29:35.410 --> 00:29:40.529
ocean during the establishment of the United

00:29:40.529 --> 00:29:43.609
States of Asgard as a government and its own

00:29:43.609 --> 00:29:49.309
nation. And one, and that is why the gods have

00:29:49.309 --> 00:29:53.670
these rules about when they can and can't interfere

00:29:53.670 --> 00:29:56.930
and how they can and can't interfere with the

00:29:56.930 --> 00:30:02.640
destiny of the nation. And that is why the Council

00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:05.680
of Valkyrie exists in the United States of Asgard

00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:11.099
because they are literally the go -betweens from

00:30:11.099 --> 00:30:15.759
the human government and the Asgardian government.

00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.059
It's not, you know, they're not really a champion,

00:30:19.059 --> 00:30:25.119
I suppose. And so they do act as representatives

00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:29.680
from the humans to the gods and from the gods

00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:33.079
to the humans. So they really walk that line

00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:41.220
between divinity and mortality. There are supposed

00:30:41.220 --> 00:30:44.339
to be nine of them scattered across. There is

00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:46.220
the Valkyrie of the East and the Valkyrie of

00:30:46.220 --> 00:30:48.720
the West and the Valkyrie of the Lakes and the

00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:53.250
Valkyrie of the Rock and things like that. So

00:30:53.250 --> 00:30:56.029
I cannot remember what the actual question was

00:30:56.029 --> 00:31:00.210
anymore. It was more just me fangirling about

00:31:00.210 --> 00:31:03.690
how wonderful I loved your interpretation of

00:31:03.690 --> 00:31:08.490
Valkyries and how you set them. But yes, I mean,

00:31:08.710 --> 00:31:10.329
to pick up on the point that you made about how

00:31:10.329 --> 00:31:13.609
they do walk that line between mortality and

00:31:13.609 --> 00:31:16.849
divinity and how they go between, I think that's

00:31:16.849 --> 00:31:19.650
one thing that so many of the authors that I've

00:31:19.650 --> 00:31:22.150
written involving Valkyrie characters have picked

00:31:22.150 --> 00:31:26.390
upon that they do often end up becoming almost

00:31:26.390 --> 00:31:29.210
like the bridge if not the defender of humanity

00:31:29.210 --> 00:31:33.529
very much like Thor in Marvel comics and he is

00:31:33.529 --> 00:31:37.210
in a very heroic dramatic over -the -top sense

00:31:37.210 --> 00:31:39.890
doing the same thing but a lot of the Valkyrie

00:31:39.890 --> 00:31:41.930
protagonists I've come across are often trying

00:31:41.930 --> 00:31:45.750
to prevent the gods manipulating humans doing

00:31:45.750 --> 00:31:49.009
something that's unfair to the humans or if they

00:31:49.009 --> 00:31:51.799
witness a death that is wrong, they will then

00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:55.319
try and solve it or correct it or bring honour.

00:31:55.720 --> 00:32:00.579
They're often in between but not quite, not always

00:32:00.579 --> 00:32:04.759
by default siding with the gods even though stereotypically

00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:08.359
mention Most people on a very low level know

00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:10.839
that it's Valkyrie's and then Odin, because of

00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:13.539
course it's Odin who gets the debt. Not many

00:32:13.539 --> 00:32:15.660
people realise that Freyja gets half the debt,

00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:19.019
and I remember from my very, very, very young,

00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:21.680
juvenile days as a wannabe writer, wannabe author,

00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:23.740
never did quite make it to J .K. Rowling level,

00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:27.039
but here I am, hey! It's not too bad. I wrote

00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:29.660
a very short flash -fix and piece of Freyja walking

00:32:29.660 --> 00:32:31.799
a battlefield with Odin, selecting her debt.

00:32:31.980 --> 00:32:34.700
and I made her quite dark and sinister in that

00:32:34.700 --> 00:32:36.380
she'd almost like lick the blood off a warrior

00:32:36.380 --> 00:32:38.099
and just kind of put it on her tongue, almost

00:32:38.099 --> 00:32:42.720
like vampire -like. That's why her and Odin kind

00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:45.119
of like were just, they have that, because they're

00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:48.240
almost two powerful beings in their own right,

00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:50.599
I think, because of course she has the cedar

00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:53.359
magic. Odin had to learn that from her, he didn't,

00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:55.960
all he had was the runes. So they both kind of

00:32:55.960 --> 00:32:58.779
have their own own stance and their own plinth.

00:32:59.789 --> 00:33:01.630
And I've completely forgotten what I was going

00:33:01.630 --> 00:33:06.190
to say. But yes, I think you've matched what

00:33:06.190 --> 00:33:09.130
my own thinking and my own theories and my own

00:33:09.130 --> 00:33:11.630
experiences of, and of course my own idealistic

00:33:11.630 --> 00:33:15.190
view of Valkyries is that they are the bridge

00:33:15.190 --> 00:33:18.930
in between. And they can sometimes, in some cases,

00:33:19.049 --> 00:33:21.190
in a lot of fictional universes, as well as of

00:33:21.190 --> 00:33:26.970
course with Brunhilde, choose to go against what

00:33:26.970 --> 00:33:30.900
the gods decree. and I really, really like that

00:33:30.900 --> 00:33:33.809
because I remember... being really struck, especially

00:33:33.809 --> 00:33:35.769
when I re -read The Strange Maid, when Sydney

00:33:35.769 --> 00:33:38.490
gets the idea, like, oh, Odin wants bloodletting,

00:33:38.509 --> 00:33:40.809
we need to give him like a blood eagle and a

00:33:40.809 --> 00:33:42.549
sacrifice and we'll do it without painkillers

00:33:42.549 --> 00:33:44.650
and he'll just die and it'll be glory and magnificent

00:33:44.650 --> 00:33:46.410
and Odin will be happy and the mother back here

00:33:46.410 --> 00:33:49.269
is like, whoa, kind of like we've agreed to keep

00:33:49.269 --> 00:33:52.529
everything PG at death's now, we can't just do

00:33:52.529 --> 00:33:54.809
that anymore, because remember what happened

00:33:54.809 --> 00:33:57.609
to Brynhildr, she got, she kind of like got banished,

00:33:57.829 --> 00:33:59.430
even though I kind of like kind of mentioned

00:33:59.430 --> 00:34:01.980
her. but you don't actually mention what happens

00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:04.079
after she gets banished, which I was always curious

00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:06.920
about whether there was a Sigurd the Dragon Slayer

00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:10.219
in your... fictionalized alternative history

00:34:10.219 --> 00:34:15.000
of history. But then of course, as I think I

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.800
mentioned before, when your characters discuss

00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:20.219
the alternative civil war and it's Odin versus

00:34:20.219 --> 00:34:23.920
Thor and that one Valkyrie switches sides, Odin

00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:27.119
actually completely rewrites her name from the

00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:29.440
history. None of the humans remember what she

00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:32.250
was called, only the Valkyrie do. And I thought

00:34:32.250 --> 00:34:35.110
that was a nice nod to his treatment of Brunhilde

00:34:35.110 --> 00:34:37.610
and that he will stand out with disobedience

00:34:37.610 --> 00:34:39.809
with a tough boot. He'll just immediately crush

00:34:39.809 --> 00:34:42.889
it and kill it. And of course, Vikings of the

00:34:42.889 --> 00:34:45.409
time, honour and memory and being remembered

00:34:45.409 --> 00:34:49.329
was so central to everything that they do. I

00:34:49.329 --> 00:34:51.530
think even in the Havomal, it's about kind of

00:34:51.530 --> 00:34:54.489
like remembering, like for so many years, but.

00:34:54.570 --> 00:34:57.329
great deeds last forever etc. Something that

00:34:57.329 --> 00:34:58.690
I'm just trying to say for you is that I'm not

00:34:58.690 --> 00:35:00.969
quoting it at all. It's been a while since I've

00:35:00.969 --> 00:35:03.110
even read The Handle Owl and that's got a long

00:35:03.110 --> 00:35:08.190
list of verses. So one question which will possibly

00:35:08.190 --> 00:35:10.369
be a slight challenge for your course. forgive

00:35:10.369 --> 00:35:13.010
me for leaving this interview so long after I

00:35:13.010 --> 00:35:15.230
first read your books. I only got the courage

00:35:15.230 --> 00:35:19.050
to do this crazy YouTube thing last year. If

00:35:19.050 --> 00:35:21.889
you had to place yourself in your United States

00:35:21.889 --> 00:35:24.670
of Asgard, if it was real or if it was just almost

00:35:24.670 --> 00:35:27.550
think of it as a role -playing game, which path

00:35:27.550 --> 00:35:30.750
or type of destiny would you follow? Would you

00:35:30.750 --> 00:35:33.130
be a Loki skin? Would you be a Freya worshiper?

00:35:33.269 --> 00:35:35.130
Would you be a Balder worshiper or would you

00:35:35.130 --> 00:35:37.639
just be... Because there were Christians, thankfully.

00:35:37.780 --> 00:35:40.019
It's a very inclusive world, Tessa Scott. I will

00:35:40.019 --> 00:35:52.739
say this. Gosh. I don't know. I probably would

00:35:52.739 --> 00:36:02.219
have been raised as a thunderer, which is what?

00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:06.269
So the two biggest. groups of people in the United

00:36:06.269 --> 00:36:12.929
States of Asgard worship Thor or Freyr. And it's

00:36:12.929 --> 00:36:18.690
not direct like comparison, but I've sort of

00:36:18.690 --> 00:36:21.570
set it up like Catholics versus Protestants kind

00:36:21.570 --> 00:36:27.210
of thing. So they're both basically, you know,

00:36:27.289 --> 00:36:30.860
worshiping the same. ideals and like ultimately

00:36:30.860 --> 00:36:34.000
the same values theoretically, but coming at

00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:38.719
it from very different perspectives. And because

00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:42.219
I was raised Catholic, I'm saying I probably

00:36:42.219 --> 00:36:44.559
would have been raised as a thunderer because

00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:48.800
that was that's the more Catholic parallel, whereas

00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:53.840
the Freyans are more the like particularly Baptist,

00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:57.130
like Southern Baptist, very American. form of

00:36:57.130 --> 00:37:03.690
Protestantism. And I definitely would not have

00:37:03.690 --> 00:37:09.150
stayed there because Thor is very rigid in what

00:37:09.150 --> 00:37:12.730
he represents. And like he represents a lot of

00:37:12.730 --> 00:37:16.090
things, but if you don't like the rules, then

00:37:16.090 --> 00:37:20.329
you aren't going to be a very successful member

00:37:20.329 --> 00:37:23.630
of his congregations. And I am very much not

00:37:23.630 --> 00:37:28.699
a rule follower. So I wouldn't have lasted, I

00:37:28.699 --> 00:37:31.119
honestly don't know. And I would have had to

00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:33.619
pick because that is one of the things in the

00:37:33.619 --> 00:37:36.199
United States of Asgard in order to maintain

00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:39.599
your citizenship, you have to have an official

00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:44.260
God that you're dedicated to. I probably would

00:37:44.260 --> 00:37:46.559
have picked Loki, which would have just been

00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:54.099
a mess. But, you know, is very much the opposite.

00:37:54.219 --> 00:37:57.260
of Thor and the rule following in a lot of ways.

00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:01.800
He's known in Asgard as the Changer, that's his

00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:06.019
nickname. So Thor is the Thunderer and Loki is

00:38:06.019 --> 00:38:10.099
the Changer. So I would have probably ended up

00:38:10.099 --> 00:38:14.400
with a Loki. Yeah. The Loki skin definitely,

00:38:14.659 --> 00:38:16.940
and I looked like the name Loki skin, it just

00:38:16.940 --> 00:38:20.050
makes so much sense. They're very kind of like

00:38:20.050 --> 00:38:22.769
a transitional community. They never really stay

00:38:22.769 --> 00:38:25.989
in one place. They're often where you would find

00:38:25.989 --> 00:38:28.869
bulbers and sea -wrestlers, I amend it in. I

00:38:28.869 --> 00:38:34.389
think it is The Lost Sun, where Astrid does kind

00:38:34.389 --> 00:38:38.489
of like a sea -wrestling session for people to

00:38:38.489 --> 00:38:40.949
come and pay so they can get money. Because I

00:38:40.949 --> 00:38:42.630
think that's one thing that all three books have

00:38:42.630 --> 00:38:44.570
in common. Nearly all the characters go on quite

00:38:44.570 --> 00:38:47.690
a road trip. around this alternative inner science

00:38:47.690 --> 00:38:49.269
of America. And I would love to see the little

00:38:49.269 --> 00:38:51.710
maps you drew up to kind of like work out where

00:38:51.710 --> 00:38:54.929
they go next and hear them. Especially in the

00:38:54.929 --> 00:38:56.469
strange marriage when you've got more than one

00:38:56.469 --> 00:39:03.710
party. Yeah, yeah. That, you know, a great American

00:39:03.710 --> 00:39:07.949
road trip is a big part of American literature

00:39:07.949 --> 00:39:14.429
and storytelling. You know, the... the Western

00:39:14.429 --> 00:39:19.530
American mythology, the imperialist, I guess,

00:39:19.670 --> 00:39:22.889
is a way to say that too, is very much about

00:39:22.889 --> 00:39:25.710
movement, constant travel, going from one place

00:39:25.710 --> 00:39:28.250
to the next, looking at the horizon, you know,

00:39:28.289 --> 00:39:31.829
the Wild West, all of that is really baked into

00:39:31.829 --> 00:39:36.050
American popular culture. And so I really was

00:39:36.050 --> 00:39:39.030
determined that the three novels would each have

00:39:39.030 --> 00:39:43.289
road trip aspects. Well, let us not forget The

00:39:43.289 --> 00:39:45.650
Apple Throne, because that was equally a very,

00:39:45.650 --> 00:39:48.329
very good book. I think I tried reading my reviews

00:39:48.329 --> 00:39:49.949
of it just to remind me what had happened, and

00:39:49.949 --> 00:39:52.010
I was so brief with the details. I didn't give

00:39:52.010 --> 00:39:54.190
away anything of the plot. I just said, this

00:39:54.190 --> 00:39:57.170
one trumps the other two. It is a worthy end

00:39:57.170 --> 00:39:59.750
of the trilogy. I wish there was more sad face,

00:40:00.110 --> 00:40:02.210
because I do, and that's why I'm kind of glad

00:40:02.210 --> 00:40:03.909
when you brought out The Weight of Stars, which

00:40:03.909 --> 00:40:07.219
is three novellas. of the other characters that

00:40:07.219 --> 00:40:10.599
of course Soren, Astrid, and Sickly meet. So

00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:12.940
would you mind just giving the viewers a little

00:40:12.940 --> 00:40:15.579
recap or overview of what the Apple Throne is

00:40:15.579 --> 00:40:18.760
about because that's Astrid's story more specifically.

00:40:19.780 --> 00:40:24.800
It is hard to do without major spoilers for the

00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:29.440
first two books. Think of it like a blurb. Yes.

00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:35.250
So the Apple Throne is about Astrid. from who

00:40:35.250 --> 00:40:38.190
is the other main character in The Lost Sun.

00:40:38.809 --> 00:40:44.289
It is about her when Soren goes missing. He just

00:40:44.289 --> 00:40:48.989
disappears from the world as far as she can tell.

00:40:49.389 --> 00:40:54.469
And so she has to leave the place that she has

00:40:54.469 --> 00:40:59.349
been set by the gods that she agreed to stay

00:40:59.349 --> 00:41:03.630
forever. And she has to basically defy the gods

00:41:03.630 --> 00:41:09.349
in order to speak Soren out and Astrid is the

00:41:09.349 --> 00:41:11.929
one of the three of them who has always had the

00:41:11.929 --> 00:41:17.710
most faith and trust in the gods and that when

00:41:17.710 --> 00:41:21.309
she is she's dedicated to Freya and even though

00:41:21.309 --> 00:41:25.130
Freya has a really bad rap for um you know being

00:41:25.130 --> 00:41:28.829
very manipulative and usually takes the hits

00:41:28.829 --> 00:41:31.969
when Odin is the one actually doing the manipulation

00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:37.260
Freya takes the hits. But Astrid truly believes

00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:41.960
that Freya does what is best for the world, that

00:41:41.960 --> 00:41:44.840
she looks at all the strands of fate and plucks

00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:48.119
the ones that will make the world better. And

00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:51.320
so to go against Freya is really difficult for

00:41:51.320 --> 00:41:58.820
Astrid. And she meets new characters who are

00:41:58.820 --> 00:42:04.050
in various like pockets of Not quite marginalization,

00:42:04.050 --> 00:42:07.349
but a little bit and it's the first time you

00:42:07.349 --> 00:42:12.610
really meet a godling a half God half human character.

00:42:12.610 --> 00:42:17.309
He is a son of Thor and super not into his dad

00:42:17.309 --> 00:42:25.369
And then another Thunderer who is Dedicated but

00:42:25.369 --> 00:42:28.929
has like secrets that if they came to light he

00:42:28.929 --> 00:42:31.550
wouldn't be able to be dedicated to Thor anymore

00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:36.139
So it is also a big road trip. And the best part

00:42:36.139 --> 00:42:40.460
is that I finally also get into the Elves under

00:42:40.460 --> 00:42:44.440
the mountains and what life is like for them

00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:47.820
in this, in North America, basically, how they

00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:50.519
got there and why they've been a secret. And,

00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:53.739
you know, people think in the United States of

00:42:53.739 --> 00:42:58.380
Asgard, humans think the elves are extinct. and

00:42:58.380 --> 00:43:00.780
that giants are extinct, and the only remnants

00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:05.260
of those kinds of inhuman peoples are the trolls

00:43:05.260 --> 00:43:08.619
who are throughout America, lots of different

00:43:08.619 --> 00:43:12.260
kinds of trolls. But yeah, so that's all on Apple

00:43:12.260 --> 00:43:16.320
phones. Well, it's the one book I never got around

00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.340
to rereading prior to the interview, and I do

00:43:18.340 --> 00:43:20.139
definitely want to reread it again, just to make

00:43:20.139 --> 00:43:22.079
sure that my review stands the test of time,

00:43:22.099 --> 00:43:23.599
and I'm sure it will, though, because you're

00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:26.619
writing and the world is brilliant. but speaking

00:43:26.619 --> 00:43:28.579
about the trolls and of course the elves and

00:43:28.579 --> 00:43:31.579
the other magical creatures in this amazing universe

00:43:31.579 --> 00:43:34.519
it's I think it's the one feature that really

00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:36.179
enhances it that brings it to life like they

00:43:36.179 --> 00:43:38.559
kind of like go walking in the forest and you

00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:40.920
don't come across big brown grizzly bears you

00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:43.780
come across trolls but also kind of like cat

00:43:43.780 --> 00:43:47.000
lights and other small types of trolls, there's

00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:49.139
almost like different species of them. It was

00:43:49.139 --> 00:43:51.980
quite diverse and I kind of like loved how some

00:43:51.980 --> 00:43:54.500
of them could communicate or some of them could

00:43:54.500 --> 00:43:57.760
be appeased by giving them silver or snacks or

00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:02.239
that kind of thing. And how did you do much research

00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:05.519
into what kind of creatures I guess the Norse

00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:08.099
might have believed into them place in America

00:44:08.099 --> 00:44:10.900
or did you just create a lot of them original?

00:44:12.750 --> 00:44:16.849
Definitely did a lot of research. I love fairy

00:44:16.849 --> 00:44:22.550
tales also, of course. And so looking into the

00:44:22.550 --> 00:44:30.010
like fairies and also, you know, I really, this

00:44:30.010 --> 00:44:34.829
is something that I really appreciate from Tolkien's

00:44:34.829 --> 00:44:39.679
work in particular, not his fiction. which is

00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:44.659
fine. But, you know, he has done so much translation,

00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:49.880
did so much translation, and wrote academic essays

00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:57.070
about looking at the Old English in particular,

00:44:57.250 --> 00:45:01.309
like the Old English sagas and poems as literature,

00:45:01.889 --> 00:45:05.329
as fairy tales, not just as, well, how can we

00:45:05.329 --> 00:45:09.769
mine this for historical facts? My favorite thing

00:45:09.769 --> 00:45:13.849
that Tolkien wrote that I have read is called

00:45:13.849 --> 00:45:17.110
The Monsters and the Critics. And it's an essay.

00:45:17.449 --> 00:45:21.889
basically arguing that Beowulf is not a historic

00:45:21.889 --> 00:45:24.789
document. It's a living piece of literature.

00:45:25.329 --> 00:45:28.349
And when I wrote, when I read that, it just like

00:45:28.349 --> 00:45:33.789
really changed how I thought about literature

00:45:33.789 --> 00:45:37.590
in general and ancient literature and everything

00:45:37.590 --> 00:45:41.590
in between about them as still being living things.

00:45:42.170 --> 00:45:44.210
You know, it's something that it's really easy

00:45:44.210 --> 00:45:45.969
to think about when we're talking about something

00:45:45.969 --> 00:45:50.250
like Shakespeare because, you know, we have different

00:45:50.250 --> 00:45:55.349
versions of his plays and, you know, the more

00:45:55.349 --> 00:45:59.070
popular ones, but those are constantly being

00:45:59.070 --> 00:46:01.949
reinterpreted. That's the point of theater is

00:46:01.949 --> 00:46:05.690
to take words and perform them and interpret

00:46:05.690 --> 00:46:09.880
them through, you know, voice and set and costume.

00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:13.480
And so thinking about how we could do that with

00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:16.639
a poem like Beowulf, which of course, translation

00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:23.880
itself is so changing and there's so much interpretation.

00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:26.679
And even though technically Beowulf was written

00:46:26.679 --> 00:46:31.159
down in English, most modern readers can't read

00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:37.159
it directly. It has to be translated. Wow, this

00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:41.860
is a real tangent. No, go for it. I'm all ears.

00:46:44.099 --> 00:46:48.059
I really do love talking about Old English and

00:46:48.059 --> 00:46:50.059
language in general and the English language

00:46:50.059 --> 00:46:55.320
and its history. But what was I talking about?

00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:58.860
How did I go on this tangent? We were talking

00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:01.619
about trolls? Oh, trolls. We were talking about

00:47:01.619 --> 00:47:06.829
trolls. And Tolkien, that's what happened. It

00:47:06.829 --> 00:47:11.070
was really through that his work that I started

00:47:11.070 --> 00:47:15.570
looking into the different kinds of You know,

00:47:15.570 --> 00:47:19.610
where did he what details was he mining to come

00:47:19.610 --> 00:47:24.110
up with two or his dwarves and his elves and

00:47:24.110 --> 00:47:27.070
things like that and what are the other versions

00:47:27.070 --> 00:47:30.969
of those that are Old and show up in poems and

00:47:30.969 --> 00:47:35.130
hints and things like that. Um And there's even

00:47:35.130 --> 00:47:40.010
some of it in Old English. The word elf comes

00:47:40.010 --> 00:47:43.889
from Old English, and then before that, a Norse

00:47:43.889 --> 00:47:52.190
word, I can't remember the exact tree. So it

00:47:52.190 --> 00:47:55.349
was really all that research, and I knew I wanted

00:47:55.349 --> 00:48:01.309
the trolls to be varied. cats is really how I

00:48:01.309 --> 00:48:03.630
was thinking about them. And, you know, you've

00:48:03.630 --> 00:48:07.449
got little house cats all the way up to lions

00:48:07.449 --> 00:48:09.909
and everything in between. You know, we've got,

00:48:09.909 --> 00:48:13.210
you know, bobcats and panthers and tigers and

00:48:13.210 --> 00:48:15.869
cheetahs and all these different kinds that are

00:48:15.869 --> 00:48:19.909
still recognizable as cats. But the behaviors

00:48:19.909 --> 00:48:24.010
are just, you know, where they live and how they

00:48:24.010 --> 00:48:25.829
evolved and that kind of thing. So I wanted to

00:48:25.829 --> 00:48:30.050
play with how the fundamental aspects of how

00:48:30.050 --> 00:48:35.349
I understand trolls from the older North fairy

00:48:35.349 --> 00:48:38.309
tales and mythology like how might they have

00:48:38.309 --> 00:48:44.550
evolved both in a like natural biological way

00:48:44.550 --> 00:48:48.110
and also how could different forms of magic have

00:48:48.110 --> 00:48:50.789
pushed some in one direction and others in another

00:48:50.789 --> 00:48:53.469
direction. So that's really what I came up with.

00:48:53.510 --> 00:48:57.429
I think there are seven main branches of trolls,

00:48:57.869 --> 00:49:03.889
the iron whites, cat white, prairie trolls, hill

00:49:03.889 --> 00:49:06.630
trolls, and mountain trolls. Maybe there's just

00:49:06.630 --> 00:49:10.650
five. Am I missing one? That might be the basics,

00:49:10.769 --> 00:49:13.989
those five ones. And of course, the cat whites

00:49:13.989 --> 00:49:17.869
and iron whites are the smallest and the most

00:49:17.869 --> 00:49:23.219
mischievous. and the mountain trolls are the

00:49:23.219 --> 00:49:27.699
biggest and also the most intelligent and they

00:49:27.699 --> 00:49:30.639
have the most magic that affects them and the

00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:35.320
troll mothers are directly connected to the elves

00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:45.679
through magic. Well, I just loved it. There's

00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:49.400
so much rich detail you've created in across

00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:52.420
all these stories Tessa and I kind of like after

00:49:52.420 --> 00:49:54.880
I finished the last short story in the weight

00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:58.139
of stars I was thinking there needs to be a world

00:49:58.139 --> 00:50:00.800
of the United States of Asgard encyclopedic book

00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:03.119
just so I can just dive into this world and never

00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:06.739
leave it because it's just so rich and I just

00:50:06.739 --> 00:50:10.639
absolutely loved it and I'm so pleased I can

00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:12.719
get to tell you face -to -face that I do I really

00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:16.599
really really love it it's very few friends that

00:50:16.599 --> 00:50:18.659
ever Most of my friends are so different to me,

00:50:18.739 --> 00:50:20.320
none of them are really into all this stuff.

00:50:20.780 --> 00:50:24.179
But if I ever meet anyone who does, I just immediately

00:50:24.179 --> 00:50:27.940
recommend it. I really, really do. I guess the

00:50:27.940 --> 00:50:30.920
last question I'd like to ask is, following on

00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:33.360
writing these books, did your interest with Norse

00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:36.699
mythology remain? Did it fade? Did you come across

00:50:36.699 --> 00:50:39.980
any other interests or influences along the same

00:50:39.980 --> 00:50:43.199
lines? It's okay if not. We hold no grudges here.

00:50:46.889 --> 00:50:53.070
um I put down Norse mythology and you know the

00:50:53.070 --> 00:50:57.730
United States of Asgard very hard and abruptly

00:50:57.730 --> 00:51:03.889
and on purpose because um the experience of publishing

00:51:03.889 --> 00:51:10.590
them was very upsetting. I'm sorry to hear that.

00:51:11.090 --> 00:51:18.239
Well um The Lost Son was my third published book.

00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:24.880
And when I sold it, I sold it to Random House

00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:28.239
Children's Books. And I had a great experience

00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:30.780
there with my first two novels, Blood Magic and

00:51:30.780 --> 00:51:35.840
The Blood Keeper, which are, they're about folk

00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:41.199
magic. And I mean, very, very bloody folk magic,

00:51:41.460 --> 00:51:47.329
young adult novels. And as we were finishing

00:51:47.329 --> 00:51:50.250
editing The Lost Sun and starting to do like

00:51:50.250 --> 00:51:53.849
the package, like where the cover would be, as

00:51:53.849 --> 00:51:57.909
that happened, Random House and Penguin merged.

00:51:58.030 --> 00:52:01.230
And so it became Penguin Random House. And there

00:52:01.230 --> 00:52:06.170
was a lot of upheaval and a lot of changes in...

00:52:06.300 --> 00:52:08.980
how like the direction of the imprint that I

00:52:08.980 --> 00:52:12.619
was at and editors leaving and new editors coming

00:52:12.619 --> 00:52:15.400
and just lots of rearranging the bureaucracy

00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:20.760
of merging two giant publishers and the lost

00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:28.659
son really was affected poorly from that. I lost

00:52:28.659 --> 00:52:31.860
my editor so I didn't have an in -house advocate

00:52:31.860 --> 00:52:37.159
for the book. in the same way and some of the

00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:41.739
direction changed and we went from having what

00:52:41.739 --> 00:52:45.480
I consider to be a really dynamic, beautiful

00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:51.179
fantasy cover to something that is a very paranormal

00:52:51.179 --> 00:52:55.780
YA design. I don't think, you know, so just a

00:52:55.780 --> 00:53:00.460
lot of little things happened. And I was writing

00:53:00.460 --> 00:53:03.400
The Strange Maid at the same time. And The Strange

00:53:03.400 --> 00:53:07.059
Maid is a very fraught book. It was very difficult

00:53:07.059 --> 00:53:10.900
to write. It's just, there's so much going on

00:53:10.900 --> 00:53:14.880
and I was going through a lot. And then right

00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:19.679
after The Strange Maid published, in I think

00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:24.420
June of 2014, so almost a decade from a decade

00:53:24.420 --> 00:53:28.960
ago, My agent called me and I thought we were

00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:32.480
going to be talking about my next series after

00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:35.460
the Apple Throne. And instead she was calling

00:53:35.460 --> 00:53:38.739
to tell me that the publisher was canceling publication

00:53:38.739 --> 00:53:44.260
of the Apple Throne. And so I was, you know,

00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:48.760
it's something that does happen pretty regularly

00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:51.980
in publishing. But of course it didn't ever happen

00:53:51.980 --> 00:53:57.579
to me. I know. And so I was really, really upset

00:53:57.579 --> 00:54:01.619
about it. And if the Apple Throne hadn't already

00:54:01.619 --> 00:54:04.860
been essentially done, I don't know if I would

00:54:04.860 --> 00:54:08.019
have published it on my own because I was just

00:54:08.019 --> 00:54:12.320
very upset. And so once I, you know, I will say

00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:16.860
the publisher was very good to me, you know,

00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:20.579
with regards to, you know, they canceled the

00:54:20.579 --> 00:54:22.900
series, but they gave me back all the rights.

00:54:23.050 --> 00:54:30.829
And everything was very friendly. I really enjoyed

00:54:30.829 --> 00:54:34.429
the people that I was working with at that time.

00:54:35.650 --> 00:54:41.349
But I was just exhausted and upset. And all my

00:54:41.349 --> 00:54:44.309
dreams of this series, which everyone that I

00:54:44.309 --> 00:54:47.010
had talked to who had read it or that I pitched

00:54:47.010 --> 00:54:50.809
it to really was excited about the ideas. And

00:54:50.809 --> 00:54:55.820
so it just felt like, And it sort of felt like

00:54:55.820 --> 00:54:58.219
being left at the altar is what I said at the

00:54:58.219 --> 00:55:04.360
time. And so I, once I republished them, like

00:55:04.360 --> 00:55:08.219
I self -published the trilogy and then added

00:55:08.219 --> 00:55:12.280
the weight of stars, I was like, I really, this

00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:16.440
has to be on a shelf over there. I'm not gonna

00:55:16.440 --> 00:55:19.530
think about it anymore. and I took all of my

00:55:19.530 --> 00:55:23.730
old English books and my Norse books and I put

00:55:23.730 --> 00:55:25.730
them in a different, like they're still on a

00:55:25.730 --> 00:55:28.570
shelf, but not in my office. So it was a really

00:55:28.570 --> 00:55:32.869
like hard drop of that. And then I did my best

00:55:32.869 --> 00:55:37.969
to ignore all of that for several years while

00:55:37.969 --> 00:55:47.469
I focused on new projects. Yeah, so I really,

00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:53.280
can't say what it directs, that anything spooled

00:55:53.280 --> 00:55:57.500
directly from it, though the next book that I

00:55:57.500 --> 00:56:00.840
wrote and sold was The Queens of Innisfleer,

00:56:01.099 --> 00:56:07.059
which is a fantasy feminist retelling of King

00:56:07.059 --> 00:56:12.920
Lear, and a lot of my research that I had done

00:56:12.920 --> 00:56:17.429
definitely like backdoored into you know, how

00:56:17.429 --> 00:56:22.889
I invented my, um, you know, ancient, it's, it's

00:56:22.889 --> 00:56:30.789
basically Ireland. So, um, yeah, yeah. Well,

00:56:31.010 --> 00:56:34.110
I am truly sorry you had such a tough experience

00:56:34.110 --> 00:56:37.329
from publishing these three because who knows

00:56:37.329 --> 00:56:41.610
what could have happened if, if things were different.

00:56:41.750 --> 00:56:44.510
Um, but I still appreciate you carrying on with

00:56:44.510 --> 00:56:47.889
it even to the most bitter endings to just get

00:56:47.889 --> 00:56:50.190
the books out there get them read because I certainly

00:56:50.190 --> 00:56:54.909
I think they certainly make a whole they do all

00:56:54.909 --> 00:56:57.210
all three novels and of course the short stories

00:56:57.210 --> 00:56:59.969
is kind of like extra bonus bonus features around

00:56:59.969 --> 00:57:02.570
the edge and I really really appreciate them

00:57:02.570 --> 00:57:05.130
they're always on my favorite shelf which is

00:57:05.130 --> 00:57:07.409
always fun that's why I'm always having to rearrange

00:57:07.409 --> 00:57:11.949
my books it definitely changed me as a writer

00:57:12.780 --> 00:57:16.820
When I was, I reread the main trilogy before

00:57:16.820 --> 00:57:21.539
this because I couldn't remember anybody's names.

00:57:21.900 --> 00:57:24.719
Don't worry about it. Most people who are readers

00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:26.619
read that many books. I'm surprised we remember

00:57:26.619 --> 00:57:31.000
anything. Yeah, exactly. So I reread them and

00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:35.900
the difference to me. in The Lost Son to The

00:57:35.900 --> 00:57:40.559
Strange Maid. I feel like as a writer, I leveled

00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:44.980
up multiple levels in the writing. Like The Lost

00:57:44.980 --> 00:57:48.900
Son, I think the story is great. I love the characters

00:57:48.900 --> 00:57:53.079
in the world, but I can see looking back after

00:57:53.079 --> 00:57:55.699
10 years, I'm like, oh, well, this is a little

00:57:55.699 --> 00:58:00.860
clunky. I would finesse this part now. But when

00:58:00.860 --> 00:58:04.300
I read The Strange Maid, I have the opposite

00:58:04.300 --> 00:58:07.860
reaction. I was, I basically, I wouldn't change

00:58:07.860 --> 00:58:10.699
a word of the strange maid even 10 years later.

00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:14.920
And the difference as a writer is it's such a,

00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:18.199
an interesting lesson that, you know, everything

00:58:18.199 --> 00:58:21.739
that I was going through career wise and everything

00:58:21.739 --> 00:58:26.539
I was trying to do ambition wise was worth it.

00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:32.500
Like the, so this series really will always have

00:58:32.650 --> 00:58:36.889
a very important place in my heart. And because

00:58:36.889 --> 00:58:41.210
of your invitation to be on this podcast, I was

00:58:41.210 --> 00:58:44.030
reflecting on the fact that it has been 10 years.

00:58:44.469 --> 00:58:48.070
And so this is a good time to tell anyone who's

00:58:48.070 --> 00:58:52.829
listening that at the end of May, I'm actually

00:58:52.829 --> 00:58:56.210
going to be taking them all down. So if you want

00:58:56.210 --> 00:58:58.670
to read them now, you should get them. Okay,

00:58:58.909 --> 00:59:01.960
right. You had your first few. Go buy, go download,

00:59:02.199 --> 00:59:03.760
go borrow from your little Ivy, make sure they

00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:07.159
got them in. Yep, I'm going to take them down

00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:13.539
and then re -jacket them, like totally do like

00:59:13.539 --> 00:59:17.480
a new modern take. I'll probably revise the lost

00:59:17.480 --> 00:59:22.000
son a little bit, but not the strange maid, and

00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:27.139
hopefully I think you'll be excited to hear,

00:59:27.139 --> 00:59:33.219
uh, write some new content. So it won't be I'm

00:59:33.219 --> 00:59:37.079
looking at the 15th anniversary as my goal for

00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:39.000
all of that because I have a lot going on right

00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:44.659
now, which will be 2028 But that that's my goal

00:59:44.659 --> 00:59:49.000
right now. So get it while you can otherwise

00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:58.380
When it comes out, oh well, I'm so pleased that

00:59:58.380 --> 01:00:01.630
it's not been too much of a traumatic reflection

01:00:01.630 --> 01:00:03.869
giving now that we know kind of like the publishing

01:00:03.869 --> 01:00:07.809
world is tough and I know from my mere experience

01:00:07.809 --> 01:00:09.630
just doing creative writing is a degree that

01:00:09.630 --> 01:00:12.010
just writing is the hardest part and then the

01:00:12.010 --> 01:00:14.170
publishing bit is equally hard and it does take

01:00:14.170 --> 01:00:16.110
more than one person to publish a book because

01:00:16.110 --> 01:00:19.409
it's a lot of stuff there's a lot to think about

01:00:19.409 --> 01:00:24.309
and do and I I will reiterate thank you for continuing

01:00:24.309 --> 01:00:27.800
with the series even after your Penguin Random

01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:33.619
House murder experience, unfortunately. So thank

01:00:33.619 --> 01:00:35.980
you and of course it's really exciting that this

01:00:35.980 --> 01:00:39.780
whole experience of rereading and of course Camille's

01:00:39.780 --> 01:00:42.400
talked a little on me has encouraged you to.

01:00:42.519 --> 01:00:45.780
go forth and bring them back anew even bigger

01:00:45.780 --> 01:00:47.960
and better than before because they can only

01:00:47.960 --> 01:00:50.000
ever get better Tessa because they're already

01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:53.039
good and I completely agree with you with the

01:00:53.039 --> 01:00:56.360
strange mate because the intensity of emotion

01:00:56.360 --> 01:00:59.139
in characters but I think it's because it's so

01:00:59.139 --> 01:01:01.659
Cygni -focused, Cygni is such the driving force

01:01:01.659 --> 01:01:04.940
when the first one there's like three protagonists

01:01:04.940 --> 01:01:09.239
all vying for the same thing I guess it's a whole

01:01:09.239 --> 01:01:11.119
other level but that just shows the passion.

01:01:11.260 --> 01:01:14.300
that you had when you were writing it and I thank

01:01:14.300 --> 01:01:17.719
you for it. I hope so, thank you. I thank you

01:01:17.719 --> 01:01:19.699
for your wonderful time and the wonderful little

01:01:19.699 --> 01:01:21.360
surprise announcement which I did not know was

01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:23.900
coming. It was a genuine surprise to me and I

01:01:23.900 --> 01:01:28.099
am very, very excited. So yes, thank you so much

01:01:28.099 --> 01:01:30.920
for your time and I wish you luck with all your

01:01:30.920 --> 01:01:34.980
writing projects, not just of course redoing

01:01:34.980 --> 01:01:36.920
the United States of Asgard, which I think is

01:01:36.920 --> 01:01:39.489
a country we should all visit. even with the

01:01:39.489 --> 01:01:45.210
trolls and the cat whites. Well, it's a mess,

01:01:46.369 --> 01:01:51.050
but that's because I base it on the United States

01:01:51.050 --> 01:01:56.650
of America, which is also a mess. Well, thank

01:01:56.650 --> 01:01:58.610
you very much again, and thank you to you dear

01:01:58.610 --> 01:02:00.369
viewers and listeners, viewing and listening.

01:02:01.429 --> 01:02:03.429
As Tessie said, Tessa Heard, she's taking down

01:02:03.429 --> 01:02:06.590
these current versions. of the quartet as I will

01:02:06.590 --> 01:02:08.670
now call them and so please do go borrow and

01:02:08.670 --> 01:02:11.409
draw them otherwise mark it in your diary for

01:02:11.409 --> 01:02:15.889
2028 hopeful new versions with new content and

01:02:15.889 --> 01:02:18.949
I will be emailing Tessa at 2028 to ask is it

01:02:18.949 --> 01:02:23.469
done yet? Well if you want to keep up to date

01:02:23.469 --> 01:02:27.889
you can go to my website which is tessagratten

01:02:27.889 --> 01:02:31.800
.com and sign up for my newsletter and that's

01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:34.659
where all these kinds of announcements go out

01:02:34.659 --> 01:02:36.860
first and I talk about all of my books and writing

01:02:36.860 --> 01:02:41.420
and frequently write essays about things. So

01:02:41.420 --> 01:02:45.139
yeah, go do that, tessagratten .com. Do you have

01:02:45.139 --> 01:02:47.420
any social platforms of any particular that you

01:02:47.420 --> 01:02:51.300
would like people to join for you? I am primarily

01:02:51.300 --> 01:02:55.300
on Instagram these days. That's where I do the

01:02:55.300 --> 01:02:57.920
most. I'm also technically on Twitter, but I

01:02:57.920 --> 01:03:01.820
don't like it there anymore. So mostly I'm just

01:03:01.820 --> 01:03:04.679
there to look at fan art and keep up with Star

01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:08.639
Wars readers. That's fine. Well, as you said,

01:03:08.840 --> 01:03:11.679
dear viewers, go to TessieGretton .com. Feel

01:03:11.679 --> 01:03:13.380
free to follow on Instagram, but no pressure

01:03:13.380 --> 01:03:17.400
to do so. And we'll all be downloading the newsletter

01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:19.599
and keeping track for the next couple of years.

01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:22.400
Thank you again so much for your time in this

01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:26.090
wonderful sixth episode of Valkyrie. Where am

01:03:26.090 --> 01:03:28.150
I going? Valkyries. I just keep thinking Valkyries.

01:03:28.309 --> 01:03:30.289
Valhalla conversations. When I can get my own

01:03:30.289 --> 01:03:32.429
YouTube series name right, it'll be a good day.

01:03:34.369 --> 01:03:36.690
And thank you, everyone, for watching and listening.

01:03:37.230 --> 01:03:39.650
Enjoy the rest of your day. Goodbye.