WEBVTT 00:00:19.350 --> 00:00:22.449 Welcome, dear viewers, listeners, readers, etc. 00:00:22.809 --> 00:00:26.429 Welcome to what'll be my fourth episode of Valhalla 00:00:26.429 --> 00:00:28.929 Conversations, as I'm officially titling this 00:00:28.929 --> 00:00:31.629 random series of remarkable panellists I keep 00:00:31.629 --> 00:00:33.270 pulling together on all my North's favourite 00:00:33.270 --> 00:00:37.770 topics. And today's topic is a big review, debate, 00:00:38.049 --> 00:00:40.829 critique, sharing of thoughts and ideas on the 00:00:40.829 --> 00:00:43.689 rather remarkable, I think, series called Ragnarok 00:00:43.689 --> 00:00:47.469 on Netflix, which, to summarise, is basically 00:00:47.469 --> 00:00:50.520 an adaptation in many ways of Norse myths set 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:53.200 in the modern world and quite aptly set in Norway 00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:56.100 and there's three seasons of it we do recommend 00:00:56.100 --> 00:00:57.920 you all go watch it after this panel and there 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:00.320 will be spoilers because we are discussing more 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:02.920 or less all three seasons within this one episode 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:05.420 and I'm delighted that I've been joined not by 00:01:05.420 --> 00:01:08.159 four but by five wonderful panelists all with 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:11.359 their own passion and expertise and knowledge 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:15.299 of Norse mythology in both their works both fictionally 00:01:15.299 --> 00:01:17.879 and in the non -fiction academic world as well. 00:01:18.459 --> 00:01:20.900 So we shall go around and each of the panelists 00:01:20.900 --> 00:01:22.640 will introduce themselves and of course mention 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:25.099 any books that you might want dear readers and 00:01:25.099 --> 00:01:27.620 viewers to buy, purchase and browse. I have a 00:01:27.620 --> 00:01:30.620 few of them on the shelf behind me, just about 00:01:30.620 --> 00:01:34.739 seat behind my head. So Caroline Larrington, 00:01:34.939 --> 00:01:36.659 would you mind introducing yourself, please? 00:01:37.370 --> 00:01:40.269 Of course. Well, I'm Caroline Larrington and 00:01:40.269 --> 00:01:43.709 I've just retired from teaching medieval English 00:01:43.709 --> 00:01:46.569 literature at the University of Oxford, but I'm 00:01:46.569 --> 00:01:48.890 still researching away and one of my principal 00:01:48.890 --> 00:01:52.920 research. interests is Old Norse myth and legend. 00:01:53.739 --> 00:01:56.500 I've published a couple of books on Old Norse 00:01:56.500 --> 00:01:59.079 myth for the trade market, the Norse myths from 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:03.299 2017, and just came out last year, the Old Norse 00:02:03.299 --> 00:02:05.560 myths that shape the way we think, which is very 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:09.360 much to do with the way that Norse story has 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:12.659 been received in the modern world. I also translated 00:02:12.659 --> 00:02:15.860 the Old Norse poetic edda, one of the most important 00:02:15.860 --> 00:02:20.289 sources for Old Norse myths and legends. Wonderful, 00:02:20.370 --> 00:02:23.370 thank you for joining us today. Joanne, would 00:02:23.370 --> 00:02:25.050 you like to introduce yourself and your wonderful 00:02:25.050 --> 00:02:29.689 works? Hi there, I'm Joanne Harris and I've been 00:02:29.689 --> 00:02:31.729 passionate about Norse myths since I was about 00:02:31.729 --> 00:02:34.889 six or seven and I've been collecting various 00:02:34.889 --> 00:02:39.150 versions, translations, retellings ever since. 00:02:40.009 --> 00:02:42.810 I started to write my own when I was about eight 00:02:42.810 --> 00:02:45.289 and I finally got around to getting one of them 00:02:45.289 --> 00:02:48.419 published. much much later than that with the 00:02:48.419 --> 00:02:51.419 Gospel of Loki and rune marks, rune light and 00:02:51.419 --> 00:02:54.120 the testament of Loki which are all kind of part 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:57.900 of an emerging series which which which runs 00:02:57.900 --> 00:03:01.039 likely over the graves of a lot of a lot of serious 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:04.419 nursery tellings but yeah I'm really happy to 00:03:04.419 --> 00:03:06.080 be here and to be able to talk about this show 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:09.539 which I might have missed otherwise. Thank you 00:03:09.539 --> 00:03:11.560 I'm very happy to have you with us and I'm so 00:03:11.560 --> 00:03:14.599 happy I kind of pestered you into watching it. 00:03:15.969 --> 00:03:18.330 Okay, Louis, would you like to introduce yourself 00:03:18.330 --> 00:03:21.009 and your wonderful works? Yes, hello, I'm Louis 00:03:21.009 --> 00:03:22.789 Stowell. I'm an author of children's books and 00:03:22.789 --> 00:03:25.750 now an illustrator too. I came to North Smiths 00:03:25.750 --> 00:03:30.129 through Wagner and Tolkien as a child because 00:03:30.129 --> 00:03:33.349 I played the trumpet and it's very rare for orchestral 00:03:33.349 --> 00:03:36.169 music or operas to have a really good trumpet 00:03:36.169 --> 00:03:38.889 part. So I was team Wagner because of that, obviously 00:03:38.889 --> 00:03:43.280 not team the man. did a performance of the Ring 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:45.500 Cycle, like semi -staged, I say the Ring Cycle, 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:47.719 I mean a very short section of the Ring Cycle, 00:03:48.039 --> 00:03:51.240 and it just had a very profound impact on me, 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:54.900 these kind of epic stories, and I don't think 00:03:54.900 --> 00:03:57.219 I really kind of followed them up into the Norse 00:03:57.219 --> 00:04:00.560 versions until a bit later, but Tolkien also 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:02.860 brought me to Norse myths, and in ways that I 00:04:02.860 --> 00:04:04.680 didn't realise, and I didn't realise all the 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:06.580 dwarves were Norse myths, I didn't realise that 00:04:06.580 --> 00:04:09.419 the Ring was in some ways the Ring of Vanvari. 00:04:11.050 --> 00:04:12.830 Yes, I think I only kind of, it'll bubble to 00:04:12.830 --> 00:04:17.470 consciousness later. I had the pleasure of doing 00:04:17.470 --> 00:04:20.189 a non -fiction book of retelling of the myths, 00:04:20.470 --> 00:04:22.529 and then that's when I finally actually read 00:04:22.529 --> 00:04:25.670 the, say, original sources, but the source material, 00:04:26.089 --> 00:04:28.829 including Caroline's translation of the book, 00:04:29.689 --> 00:04:33.050 and a few others, which eventually led me to 00:04:33.050 --> 00:04:35.149 write Loki, A Bad God's Guide to Being Good, 00:04:35.189 --> 00:04:39.040 which you can see right here. This is a child 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:41.720 fiction. It's really cool, so I'm keeping it. 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:46.160 And yeah, so that's a kind of very lighthearted 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.319 Norse. Retelling is the wrong word. It's using 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:51.060 characters from Norse myths and elements from 00:04:51.060 --> 00:04:52.860 Norse myths to tell a story about what it means 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:55.939 to be a child now, and among other things, what 00:04:55.939 --> 00:04:58.740 it means to have a family, what gender is, all 00:04:58.740 --> 00:05:01.939 those things. Wonderful. We're so glad you could 00:05:01.939 --> 00:05:05.199 join us for this wonderful panel. Caitlin, would 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:09.089 you like to introduce yourself, please? Hi, I'm 00:05:09.089 --> 00:05:12.290 Caitlin Felix, and it's really a privilege to 00:05:12.290 --> 00:05:17.790 be among all of these illustrious authors. I'm 00:05:17.790 --> 00:05:22.470 an author of Norse historical fiction and fantasy, 00:05:22.629 --> 00:05:25.329 although I don't have a full -length novel out 00:05:25.329 --> 00:05:28.389 yet. That will be forthcoming in the fall, titled 00:05:28.389 --> 00:05:33.970 Ran's Daughters. It will be out with Outland 00:05:33.970 --> 00:05:37.810 Entertainment, but it is a follow on to my short 00:05:37.810 --> 00:05:40.089 story with the All Thingy anthology from the 00:05:40.089 --> 00:05:43.449 same publisher, which dealt with a lot of the 00:05:43.449 --> 00:05:49.209 history between the Norse peoples and the Muslim 00:05:49.209 --> 00:05:52.069 peoples, the Arabic peoples and the trade and 00:05:52.069 --> 00:05:56.009 all of the trade routes and all of the interactions 00:05:56.009 --> 00:06:00.870 between them. I also came to Norse Myth and Norse 00:06:00.870 --> 00:06:03.490 history through Tolkien. I was a very, very big 00:06:03.490 --> 00:06:06.490 Tolkien fan. You can probably tell by some of 00:06:06.490 --> 00:06:10.670 the comments. Yes, I'm just happy to be here 00:06:10.670 --> 00:06:13.470 and it's good to be among you all. Thank you 00:06:13.470 --> 00:06:16.230 for having me. You're very welcome, Caitlyn. 00:06:16.350 --> 00:06:18.970 Thank you so much for accepting this invitation 00:06:18.970 --> 00:06:22.449 for one of my crazy projects. And last but not 00:06:22.449 --> 00:06:25.069 least, Genevieve, please introduce yourself. 00:06:25.900 --> 00:06:29.639 Hi, I'm Genevieve Gornicek. I ended up like this 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:32.660 because I took a course on the Old Norse language 00:06:32.660 --> 00:06:37.180 when I was at university, and that was my rabbit 00:06:37.180 --> 00:06:41.600 hole into this entire subject. That autumn, I 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:45.959 took a course on the Old Nordic myths, and while 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:47.740 I was supposed to be working on my term paper, 00:06:47.819 --> 00:06:50.319 I wrote this little Loki fan fiction called The 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:54.089 Witch's Heart. and many years later ended up 00:06:54.089 --> 00:06:57.889 as my debut novel in 2021. It is a reimagining 00:06:57.889 --> 00:07:01.889 of the Norse myths centering the giantess Angerboda 00:07:01.889 --> 00:07:04.009 who we don't know a whole lot about so I kind 00:07:04.009 --> 00:07:06.129 of tried to fill in the gaps and write my own 00:07:06.129 --> 00:07:09.569 little alternate universe kind of story and then 00:07:09.569 --> 00:07:12.230 two years later this past summer my second novel 00:07:12.230 --> 00:07:14.370 The Weaver and the Witch Queen which is a reimagining 00:07:14.370 --> 00:07:16.810 of the origin story of Gunnhild Mother of Kings 00:07:16.810 --> 00:07:23.319 came out so I really enjoyed Um, you know, uh, 00:07:23.500 --> 00:07:26.240 watching Ragnarok just, uh. I guess a little 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:29.459 segue into the show, but I'm really, I'm really 00:07:29.459 --> 00:07:30.920 happy to be here. So thank you so much for having 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:34.129 me. You're very welcome. I'm so delighted to 00:07:34.129 --> 00:07:35.709 have all of you again. I mean, I've previously 00:07:35.709 --> 00:07:38.230 collaborated on my humble videos with Caroline 00:07:38.230 --> 00:07:40.629 and Joanne before, but equally to spread out 00:07:40.629 --> 00:07:42.829 and get more of my favorite authors. Admittedly, 00:07:43.029 --> 00:07:45.050 I've still yet to read your Genevieve and I will 00:07:45.050 --> 00:07:46.569 definitely read yours, Caitlin, when it comes 00:07:46.569 --> 00:07:49.290 out. My shelf is always full of books to read. 00:07:50.370 --> 00:07:52.310 I keep having to take books off to push on a 00:07:52.310 --> 00:07:54.290 lovely display like this because it's usually 00:07:54.290 --> 00:07:57.649 just full, just full. But I'm so delighted to 00:07:57.649 --> 00:07:58.949 have you all on board and of course have more 00:07:58.949 --> 00:08:01.470 fans to talk about Ragnarok because no one I 00:08:01.470 --> 00:08:04.870 know, certainly in my family, in my very small 00:08:04.870 --> 00:08:06.910 mum -friend network and certainly at work, has 00:08:06.910 --> 00:08:10.329 not yet seen Ragnarok or even heard of it. And 00:08:10.329 --> 00:08:12.529 I can't yet quite remember how I came across 00:08:12.529 --> 00:08:14.389 it. I don't know whether it was just the algorithm, 00:08:14.449 --> 00:08:17.689 whether it just popped up in an advert, but I 00:08:17.689 --> 00:08:20.170 started watching it and then I just carried on. 00:08:20.829 --> 00:08:23.490 And remarkably, thankfully three seasons later, 00:08:23.509 --> 00:08:28.649 here I am talking about it. So, Ragnarok, as 00:08:28.649 --> 00:08:30.810 I mentioned at the start, is set in a fictional 00:08:30.810 --> 00:08:36.009 town of Edda in Norway. There is a cast of young 00:08:36.009 --> 00:08:37.870 characters, they're all young people, kind of 00:08:37.870 --> 00:08:40.970 like sixth form, college, high school, kind of 00:08:40.970 --> 00:08:44.389 age. There's a few adults as well and it really 00:08:44.389 --> 00:08:48.250 does explore kind of like family dynamics, identity, 00:08:48.850 --> 00:08:53.210 belonging, finding oneself, independence. I know 00:08:53.370 --> 00:08:55.990 I've read articles online that the writer and 00:08:55.990 --> 00:08:57.509 director say it's really is kind of like almost 00:08:57.509 --> 00:08:59.830 like a coming -of -age story kind of like finding 00:08:59.830 --> 00:09:02.830 oneself and season three certainly does kind 00:09:02.830 --> 00:09:05.029 of like clarify the off at the end we'll get 00:09:05.029 --> 00:09:07.990 to that bit because season three's ending is 00:09:07.990 --> 00:09:10.190 a hot topic of debate amongst those online right 00:09:10.190 --> 00:09:14.610 now. But we'll start off, we'll just go with 00:09:14.610 --> 00:09:16.529 kind of like the main character, the main protagonist 00:09:16.529 --> 00:09:21.250 who comes along and is Magni. He's quite a large, 00:09:21.470 --> 00:09:26.409 tall, well -built young man. I think it was... 00:09:26.379 --> 00:09:29.179 I have ADHD or autism that they mentioned in 00:09:29.179 --> 00:09:31.100 the first few episodes where they kind of introduced 00:09:31.100 --> 00:09:32.679 him to the school. I know he's got some kind 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:35.620 of neurodiversity element to it. Dyslexia. He 00:09:35.620 --> 00:09:39.480 was dyslexic. Dyslexic, that was it, sorry. It's 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:41.120 been a while since I've seen season one viewers. 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:43.299 I have re -watched all three seasons, but it's 00:09:43.299 --> 00:09:45.919 a lot of episodes. Well, six episodes per season, 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:47.879 so you can watch them comfortably within a month. 00:09:48.350 --> 00:09:50.330 I'd say, although with me it was like one episode 00:09:50.330 --> 00:09:53.750 each night, sometimes two, sometimes three, sometimes 00:09:53.750 --> 00:09:55.669 four if I wanted to really push the boat out. 00:09:56.289 --> 00:10:00.389 And he gets approached by an elderly woman of 00:10:00.389 --> 00:10:04.049 the town called Edda, and she mysteriously activates, 00:10:04.590 --> 00:10:08.730 awakens some kind of supernatural ability strength, 00:10:08.950 --> 00:10:11.049 certainly when he learns he can throw a hammer 00:10:11.049 --> 00:10:14.289 several thousand feet far away, breaking all 00:10:14.289 --> 00:10:16.769 world records kind of thing. And he basically... 00:10:17.379 --> 00:10:19.879 becomes, over the stories of three seasons, Thor, 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:23.779 which is quite apt because I'm sure Thor's actual 00:10:23.779 --> 00:10:27.279 sons, in the mythology Thor's sons have a magne 00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:32.620 or a magnus. Yes, he has two sons, Moody and 00:10:32.620 --> 00:10:35.779 Magne. Magne, there we go, so that's a nice touch 00:10:35.779 --> 00:10:38.179 that the writers put in there, kind of flagging 00:10:38.179 --> 00:10:40.200 it up that this guy will become Thor, just for 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:44.120 those in the know that know. His story arc over 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.960 all three seasons I would describe season one 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:50.399 as almost like his Peter Parker coming of becoming 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:54.820 a hero kind of thing because he doesn't well 00:10:54.820 --> 00:10:57.440 he doesn't quite lose his uncle Ben but he certainly 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:01.740 does lose someone he gets quite attached to in 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:05.039 the friendship way not in a kind of like platonic 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:08.419 way. quite early on, we won't give too many names 00:11:08.419 --> 00:11:10.139 so I try not to spoil it for dear viewers who 00:11:10.139 --> 00:11:12.080 will hopefully go and watch this, please do, 00:11:12.139 --> 00:11:14.980 please do, afterwards. Does anyone else have 00:11:14.980 --> 00:11:18.440 any thoughts on Magni's story arc or particular 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:20.840 episodes? I was just thinking about your Peter 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.159 Parker parallel and it's that he's bitten by 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:28.840 a radioactive auntie in this case. Not quite 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:30.299 bitten, I don't know if she's bitten by a radioactive 00:11:30.299 --> 00:11:39.360 auntie. I think one of the interesting things 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:42.220 at that point is the way that you begin to see 00:11:42.220 --> 00:11:45.320 these characters who just like look like ordinary 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:49.100 inhabitants of a Norwegian town beginning to 00:11:49.100 --> 00:11:52.279 emerge and you see the one -eyed man in his wheelchair, 00:11:52.580 --> 00:11:56.279 Votan, very early on and you think oh it's just 00:11:56.279 --> 00:12:00.019 a one -eyed guy in a wheelchair but when Venke, 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:03.360 the the character at the supermarket who turns 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:05.899 out to be the serious starts to speak to him 00:12:05.899 --> 00:12:09.940 it's one of those moments where you go okay now 00:12:09.940 --> 00:12:13.759 I begin to see and in particular I think the 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:17.539 way that over the episodes Magny gathers this 00:12:17.539 --> 00:12:21.539 kind of group of friends it's classic quest stuff 00:12:21.539 --> 00:12:24.679 isn't it is like the companions of the ring he 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:27.759 gathers his cohort and then he alienates them 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:30.799 and then they come back together again and I 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:33.700 think it's really clever the way you begin to 00:12:33.700 --> 00:12:36.720 see them emerging and go oh I see who that is 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:40.460 now. Yeah you are playing kind of spot the analog 00:12:40.460 --> 00:12:43.220 all the way through and sometimes I changed my 00:12:43.220 --> 00:12:44.980 mind about who people were supposed to represent 00:12:44.980 --> 00:12:48.159 as I was watching because at first I think I 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:51.059 didn't read the there's you know the blurb on 00:12:51.059 --> 00:12:53.000 Netflix closely enough and I assumed it was supposed 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:56.580 to be Thor's son not Thor um because the name 00:12:56.580 --> 00:12:59.179 I just was being quite literal you know. That 00:12:59.179 --> 00:13:01.440 would sound like an interesting take. Yeah yeah 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:03.240 um because I don't know if anyone's read the 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.039 Wicked and the Divine um but this it was strongly 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:10.279 reminding me of that where again you're kind 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:14.720 of trying to map your concept of the pre -existing 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:17.720 gods onto the versions in the story which again 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:19.720 is adolescence and I feel there's something about 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:21.720 kind of the change you go through when you're 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:24.620 a teenager that really kind of feels a bit like 00:13:24.620 --> 00:13:26.500 you're coming into your power as a god but also 00:13:26.500 --> 00:13:29.779 it's terrifying power and you know and you can 00:13:29.779 --> 00:13:33.519 lose that power quite easily. Yeah I thought 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:35.139 that that really struck me, I thought of the 00:13:35.139 --> 00:13:38.220 wicked and the divine as well and I also thought 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:43.580 of the the general idea of god aspect it's being 00:13:43.580 --> 00:13:47.159 potentially interchangeable. So, you know, he's 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:50.240 named after Thor's son, which, I mean, he could 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:52.360 quite easily have been named Thor, so why wasn't 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:55.679 he? And so I just assumed that this was about 00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:58.620 trying on personas and different aspects, and 00:13:58.620 --> 00:14:02.100 that this would be a show about narratives primarily, 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:05.820 given that the town is called Edda. And also 00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:09.019 what struck me was the idea that disability marks 00:14:09.019 --> 00:14:12.620 special ability. And it's a question of beyond 00:14:12.620 --> 00:14:15.100 it, so you know there's a reason that Wotan is 00:14:15.100 --> 00:14:20.179 in a mobility scooter and that Magni has these 00:14:20.179 --> 00:14:22.659 coke bottle glasses that he quickly gets rid 00:14:22.659 --> 00:14:26.919 of when he starts coming into his new identity. 00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:33.039 I like the idea of it being a kind of loose set 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:36.059 of connections to the myths and partly because 00:14:36.059 --> 00:14:38.440 I think the experience of myth is that it's not 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:41.539 a kind of it's not a system, you know, it's not 00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:44.940 a kind of organized religion. It is, you know, 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.240 each figure in the myths can be interpreted in 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:49.019 different ways and in different texts, they'll 00:14:49.019 --> 00:14:52.379 turn up as different people. So yeah, so I think 00:14:52.379 --> 00:14:54.940 actually my instinct was to try and look for 00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:57.679 very strict connections, but actually I think 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.879 that was wrong. And I think it is more fluid. 00:15:00.899 --> 00:15:03.259 And as you say, Joanne, it's the idea of trying 00:15:03.259 --> 00:15:05.840 on identities that's key, you know, for that 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:09.769 kind of particular age. It is and also when and 00:15:09.769 --> 00:15:11.690 the fact that they're coming from a different 00:15:11.690 --> 00:15:14.809 place into a new school is interesting because 00:15:14.809 --> 00:15:17.509 that's what you do when you go to a new school, 00:15:17.549 --> 00:15:20.409 isn't it? You try on a new you and you make new 00:15:20.409 --> 00:15:23.070 friends in a different way and there is this 00:15:23.070 --> 00:15:25.370 general feeling that this is also what they're 00:15:25.370 --> 00:15:29.470 doing and that this sense of place is absolutely 00:15:29.470 --> 00:15:33.330 attached to this new identity. And it's classic 00:15:33.330 --> 00:15:35.289 teen TV, it's the opening of Buffy as well where 00:15:35.289 --> 00:15:46.509 she comes to a new school. I was just going to 00:15:46.509 --> 00:15:49.710 say, it's very much like archetypes held very, 00:15:49.710 --> 00:15:53.529 very loosely. We don't really see a lot of who 00:15:53.529 --> 00:15:57.870 they were, Magni or Louriths, before they come 00:15:57.870 --> 00:16:01.250 to Eta to have a new beginning. So it is very 00:16:01.250 --> 00:16:04.820 much tying in with that. like these these archetypes 00:16:04.820 --> 00:16:08.100 that we have in Norse mythology and Coming into 00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:10.759 yourself as a as a person as an adult a young 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:15.879 adult. I found that very very interesting Particularly 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.320 because I when I was about the same age I moved 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:23.340 away from America to Europe and Reinvented myself 00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:25.779 in an entirely different way. So I connected 00:16:25.779 --> 00:16:31.940 very very strongly with that And I thought that 00:16:31.940 --> 00:16:35.019 without saying anything in too much detail about 00:16:35.019 --> 00:16:38.039 the ending when we get to that much discussed 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:41.779 ending we have to remind ourselves I think this 00:16:41.779 --> 00:16:47.299 was always a high school story in a way and that 00:16:47.299 --> 00:16:51.440 may not exactly explain away the ending but it 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:55.840 does give you a way of accounting for it that 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:59.419 makes some kind of narrative sense, I would say, 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:01.679 though the more I've been thinking about the 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.140 ending, more questions it's been raising for 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:06.779 me over the last few weeks thinking about it. 00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:14.579 Interesting. Absolutely. I think it's interesting, 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:17.880 too, that Magne and Lauritz were kind of on a 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:20.019 parallel path of reinventing themselves, right? 00:17:20.420 --> 00:17:23.660 Because Lauritz's character arc, the way that 00:17:23.660 --> 00:17:27.420 he changes during the show, ugh, it's so beautiful. 00:17:28.059 --> 00:17:30.279 Listen, I would die for Lauritz. I love him. 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:33.920 Oh, thank you. Oh, my God. The end of season 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:39.059 one, where he's impersonating Ron, ugh, so beautiful. 00:17:40.180 --> 00:17:46.319 Iconic. Truly. For viewers who have yet to learn 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:49.200 about the wonderful series, Laurets and Magny 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.759 are brothers, presented as brothers at the start 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:54.460 of the film, and they're moving back to Edda 00:17:54.460 --> 00:17:57.160 because their mum needs a new job and that's 00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:59.440 where she's going to get a new job. It turns 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:01.740 out that she actually grew up there and met their 00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:03.720 father there and did start initially with the 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:05.680 family there but then their father died. We don't 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:09.589 know why or how. or exactly precisely when, although 00:18:09.589 --> 00:18:11.609 I do know the visit to the gravestone and I can't 00:18:11.609 --> 00:18:13.069 remember what date was on his gravestone, I think 00:18:13.069 --> 00:18:16.369 it was 2002, but then they left and now they're 00:18:16.369 --> 00:18:18.309 coming back, it's a strange return story for 00:18:18.309 --> 00:18:21.630 the mother as well as the sons. But they need 00:18:21.630 --> 00:18:24.170 that return for the history, don't they? Yes, 00:18:24.210 --> 00:18:27.069 they do. When Laritz discovers who his real father 00:18:27.069 --> 00:18:30.569 is and that all has to be explained from that 00:18:30.569 --> 00:18:33.029 episode in the past that the boys can't remember. 00:18:34.650 --> 00:18:37.950 I love their mother. She's one of my favorite 00:18:37.950 --> 00:18:41.470 characters. She's so much like my mom. It's scary 00:18:41.470 --> 00:18:45.549 sometimes. I think she's one of the most relatable 00:18:45.549 --> 00:18:48.349 mothers of a chosen one that I've encountered 00:18:48.349 --> 00:18:51.849 in fiction. And also the supporting cast, not 00:18:51.849 --> 00:18:54.009 just the side characters, but the other kids. 00:18:54.630 --> 00:18:57.250 Oh my god, Magna, the guy who's running around 00:18:57.250 --> 00:19:00.150 shouting all the time. What must a chosen one 00:19:00.150 --> 00:19:02.150 look like from the outside for people who have 00:19:02.150 --> 00:19:05.700 no idea what's going on? That was a really nice 00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:09.960 touch. Well, as we said, Lauritz is Magne's brother, 00:19:10.019 --> 00:19:14.039 and if Magne is indeed becoming, in many various 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:18.220 ways, Thor, Lauritz definitely, totally, and 00:19:18.220 --> 00:19:22.460 very clearly becomes the Loki character. And 00:19:22.460 --> 00:19:25.240 I must admit, he does a better job than Tom Hiddleston 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:27.980 in some ways, mainly because Tom Hiddleston's 00:19:27.980 --> 00:19:31.200 character is very much nailed down in Marvel. 00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:34.740 law, so to speak, whereas this one, it feels 00:19:34.740 --> 00:19:38.500 very organic, very real, and again reflects so 00:19:38.500 --> 00:19:41.319 much of what teenagers and young people go through. 00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:43.420 Especially not just kind of like in terms of 00:19:43.420 --> 00:19:45.420 family dynamics, as Caroline explained, Lourdes 00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:48.619 discovered that he's not actually the full brother 00:19:48.619 --> 00:19:50.920 to Magdi, he's a half -brother. Turid, their 00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:54.440 mother, had a slight fling with a part of the 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:56.039 cast we haven't yet actually mentioned, which 00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:58.839 is the Juttall family, and for those who are 00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:01.299 slightly... familiar with Old Norse and I'm only 00:20:01.299 --> 00:20:03.079 slightly familiar, I do know that Juttrull at 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.059 least alludes to giant and of course Thor and 00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:09.299 giants they never get along in classic mythology 00:20:09.299 --> 00:20:12.839 and they're very much part of the whole Ragnarok 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:16.720 setup aren't they really. So it turns out that 00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:22.029 of course Laritz is the secret son of what ultimately 00:20:22.029 --> 00:20:24.750 becomes Magni's great antagonist to which is 00:20:24.750 --> 00:20:26.690 Vidar, which is the head of the Yutl family. 00:20:27.289 --> 00:20:29.349 The Yutl family are very much kind of like very 00:20:29.349 --> 00:20:33.200 social elite, they run and own the big chemical 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.859 factory which makes a lot of work and wealth 00:20:35.859 --> 00:20:38.859 for the town of Edda. There's a very strong environmental 00:20:38.859 --> 00:20:41.740 theme all the way through which I think is also 00:20:41.740 --> 00:20:44.140 relatable because of course I know like I'm sure 00:20:44.140 --> 00:20:47.000 kind of like an environmental crisis or environmental 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.259 anxiety was like one of the key words in the 00:20:49.259 --> 00:20:51.579 English dictionary several years ago because 00:20:51.579 --> 00:20:53.940 it's just been getting prevalent and more prevalent 00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:56.460 in young people's minds especially with Greta 00:20:56.460 --> 00:20:59.619 Thunberg who I know, Saxa who is The daughter 00:20:59.619 --> 00:21:01.779 of Vida Util actually kind of like quotes back 00:21:01.779 --> 00:21:06.819 up Grin, or Grino Gris, that's it not Grin, Gris, 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:08.960 quite aptly in one of her kind of like sassy 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:12.519 moments. The Util family has Vida, there is Ran, 00:21:12.819 --> 00:21:14.859 his wife who is also a giantess and they have 00:21:14.859 --> 00:21:17.680 two giantess children, although they're not Rans, 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.940 which is rather interesting. Fjord and Saxa. 00:21:22.430 --> 00:21:25.490 and I do think as the viewers will then learn 00:21:25.490 --> 00:21:27.289 kind of like they're basically mortals they see 00:21:27.289 --> 00:21:30.329 they can age themselves very elderly or they 00:21:30.329 --> 00:21:32.730 can kind of remain very mature very professional 00:21:32.730 --> 00:21:35.630 age kind of thing more middle age and of course 00:21:35.630 --> 00:21:37.859 wouldn't the scenes of Rida looking through the 00:21:37.859 --> 00:21:39.700 old family photo album and there's like really, 00:21:39.700 --> 00:21:42.160 really old ones that you wouldn't see from like 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:44.880 the 18th century kind of thing. I keep thinking, 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:47.140 do they each take it in terms being the adults 00:21:47.140 --> 00:21:50.140 in this family photo album? Because the family 00:21:50.140 --> 00:21:54.519 resemblance of the actors is remarkable. They 00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:57.019 do look remarkably like each other and I thought 00:21:57.019 --> 00:21:58.880 they've done rather well to get these cast of 00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:02.019 actors together really well. I think they do 00:22:02.019 --> 00:22:07.730 discuss that in one scene that Vida and Ryan, 00:22:07.950 --> 00:22:10.049 they're being very kind of paternal almost, you 00:22:10.049 --> 00:22:12.109 know, parent -like and bossing the kids around. 00:22:12.230 --> 00:22:15.809 The kids are saying, well, this is your turn 00:22:15.809 --> 00:22:19.230 to be in charge and tell us what to do, but next 00:22:19.230 --> 00:22:23.289 time around, we'll be the parents. And if you 00:22:23.289 --> 00:22:25.730 look back in the album, you can see how those 00:22:25.730 --> 00:22:29.769 facial types kind of recur. So it does seem that 00:22:29.769 --> 00:22:32.910 they take it in turns generationally, and I guess 00:22:32.910 --> 00:22:37.720 they have to pretend to die. This makes a lot 00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:39.740 of sense, because this is one of the themes, 00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:43.079 isn't it, of the piece. It is all about cycles, 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:48.180 and the beginnings and the end of cycles. They 00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:50.640 kind of inhabit the cycle there, and to them 00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:53.920 it is a cycle of power and reincarnation. But 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.400 it's interesting that they are the giants in 00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.740 mythology, but they're also the giants in terms 00:22:58.740 --> 00:23:03.079 of industry and wealth. and they are kind of 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:05.519 labeled almost instantly as the you know the 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:08.619 adversary because they are doing harm both to 00:23:08.619 --> 00:23:12.690 the land and two specific individuals and you 00:23:12.690 --> 00:23:15.890 know you know that basically their wealth and 00:23:15.890 --> 00:23:19.269 their power is going to be something that the 00:23:19.269 --> 00:23:21.769 heroes of this story are going to have to challenge 00:23:21.769 --> 00:23:24.150 and potentially overcome in some way or another 00:23:24.150 --> 00:23:26.369 and you know that the fact that they've they've 00:23:26.369 --> 00:23:29.390 entered this kind of edict narrative means that 00:23:29.390 --> 00:23:31.450 they too have a role to play in this cycle and 00:23:31.450 --> 00:23:33.789 you can kind of see it coming from from very 00:23:33.789 --> 00:23:37.420 very early on I wondered if anybody had thoughts 00:23:37.420 --> 00:23:41.880 on the fact that the giants are the ones destroying 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.039 the environment versus like in the myths how 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:47.220 they kind of like represent nature and have all 00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:50.700 these associations with nature. I was seeing 00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:54.430 that in connection with the Ragnarok myth. So 00:23:54.430 --> 00:23:56.210 the idea that the giants are the ones that bring 00:23:56.210 --> 00:23:58.869 about the end of the world, and the utol family 00:23:58.869 --> 00:24:01.269 in this context bringing about the end of the 00:24:01.269 --> 00:24:04.690 literal world. But I do, it is interesting that 00:24:04.690 --> 00:24:06.930 starts off as a literal version of the end of 00:24:06.930 --> 00:24:10.529 the world, our world, but then with, and what 00:24:10.529 --> 00:24:14.210 spoilers am I allowed to say? A slightly more 00:24:14.210 --> 00:24:19.450 metaphorical destruction. It is actually, I never 00:24:19.450 --> 00:24:23.509 thought of that. We know there's the fire giants 00:24:23.509 --> 00:24:28.630 in Muspelheim. I don't know, I want to say ice 00:24:28.630 --> 00:24:30.730 giants, but I don't think there is ice giants 00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:34.529 canonically in the north. Totally frost giants, 00:24:35.150 --> 00:24:37.789 obviously. But they're in charge of a balance, 00:24:37.910 --> 00:24:42.089 aren't they? They are holding a balance and it 00:24:42.089 --> 00:24:45.900 is the unbalance that happens that brings about 00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:47.720 Ragnarok and the gods are at the heart of it 00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:51.880 actually. Sorry, the gods are basically what 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:58.099 unbalances this kind of cosmic oneness and brings 00:24:58.099 --> 00:25:01.039 out this conflict. It's like the creation myth 00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:02.960 actually is the appearance of the gods is what 00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:05.099 causes the conflict with the giants by killing 00:25:05.099 --> 00:25:10.319 them. Yes. Making the world from you. And I'm 00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.980 pretty sure that in dialogue terms there's a 00:25:12.980 --> 00:25:16.640 point again where the kind of family history 00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:21.019 of the yurtles is being discussed that maybe 00:25:21.019 --> 00:25:24.500 Rannet says well in the old days we used to be 00:25:24.500 --> 00:25:27.400 content with owning the sheep and and having 00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:30.559 a kind of pastoral agrarian economy but we had 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:34.589 to move with the times and we had to when Norway 00:25:34.589 --> 00:25:36.970 industrialized we had to industrialize as well 00:25:36.970 --> 00:25:40.049 because that's how we had to keep our power and 00:25:40.049 --> 00:25:43.809 maybe there's a sense there that it's if that 00:25:43.809 --> 00:25:46.849 entails environmental destruction that goes with 00:25:46.849 --> 00:25:51.309 industrialization and they don't care because 00:25:51.309 --> 00:25:54.089 they should care really because if they're immortal 00:25:54.089 --> 00:25:56.029 they're going to have to live with the consequences 00:25:56.029 --> 00:26:00.259 longer than the human population of Edda. maybe 00:26:00.259 --> 00:26:02.259 they do have another round it's as if powers 00:26:02.259 --> 00:26:04.619 become more important for them than the kind 00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:06.859 of role that Genevieve was talking about about 00:26:06.859 --> 00:26:10.180 being kind of guardians of nature and they become 00:26:10.180 --> 00:26:13.440 modern and that kind of dialogue about will Saxa 00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:18.160 have a role in the the firm and she gets excluded 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:20.299 and then she wants to come back with a real green 00:26:20.299 --> 00:26:23.380 new environmentalist policy. You can see how 00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:26.980 she kind of shifts from the old style capitalist 00:26:26.980 --> 00:26:30.460 model that the Yurtles had into this newer form 00:26:30.460 --> 00:26:35.279 of social enterprise. There's a really strong 00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:39.380 industrial political allegory running through 00:26:39.380 --> 00:26:43.579 the whole of this about times changing, cycles 00:26:43.579 --> 00:26:47.140 repeating themselves, but being broken by change, 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:51.420 and how to adapt and how to survive rather than 00:26:51.420 --> 00:26:54.200 be broken by what goes on. And I think, you know, 00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:57.819 but this kind of starts to hint at itself very 00:26:57.819 --> 00:27:00.799 early on. And this is why I think the yutls have 00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:04.369 these these conversations, these earnest discussions 00:27:04.369 --> 00:27:07.029 about whether they have sold out from the old 00:27:07.029 --> 00:27:09.809 ways, whether they have to change or whether 00:27:09.809 --> 00:27:12.230 they actually should change back. And there's 00:27:12.230 --> 00:27:14.529 this constant feeling within the family that 00:27:14.529 --> 00:27:18.269 there are breakaway youth factions that are getting 00:27:18.269 --> 00:27:20.170 far too interested in what people are wearing 00:27:20.170 --> 00:27:22.470 at school and who's going out with who, whereas 00:27:22.470 --> 00:27:24.269 in fact they should be looking at ruling the 00:27:24.269 --> 00:27:27.630 world, which is their job. And I just love the 00:27:27.630 --> 00:27:29.589 fact that it keeps shuttling back and forth from 00:27:29.589 --> 00:27:31.980 these two points. That's a very good point. That's 00:27:31.980 --> 00:27:37.119 a really good point because Soxa is the one saying, 00:27:37.460 --> 00:27:40.380 you're having emotions. Why are you having emotions? 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.099 I love that. That's a good point. You sit and 00:27:45.099 --> 00:27:48.319 watch cartoons whilst eating popcorn all day 00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:50.660 what you said to Vida. And of course, Soxa getting 00:27:50.660 --> 00:27:53.640 onto the white wine once Laura senses the family. 00:27:54.140 --> 00:27:56.599 That is one of the most beautiful moments. Vida 00:27:56.599 --> 00:28:00.299 is just on the couch eating candy. Watching some 00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:03.789 kind of American drama. I'm making brownies. 00:28:04.529 --> 00:28:07.309 It really is. Interesting. Old guard versus new 00:28:07.309 --> 00:28:10.970 guard coming through. It gets kind of feelful. 00:28:13.529 --> 00:28:16.869 Ron tells Vidar, you're not good at emotions. 00:28:17.750 --> 00:28:20.150 And within the same episode, at the very end, 00:28:20.950 --> 00:28:24.509 during the protest in front of the util industries 00:28:24.509 --> 00:28:29.559 factory, Somebody's asking Vedar for a statement. 00:28:29.700 --> 00:28:32.059 You know, what are you going to say about this 00:28:32.059 --> 00:28:35.799 protest? And he says, well, I'm not good at emotions, 00:28:36.140 --> 00:28:39.740 but earlier in that same episode, like you can 00:28:39.740 --> 00:28:41.700 see the emotion on his face. You can see the 00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:45.380 tears in his eyes. Not spoiling too much here, 00:28:45.380 --> 00:28:48.099 but. it was to me that was a really interesting 00:28:48.099 --> 00:28:50.960 parallel how so many times one of these characters 00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:54.380 one of these utils are telling off someone else 00:28:54.380 --> 00:28:57.079 or saying hey no you can't do it that way or 00:28:57.079 --> 00:28:59.180 why are you being this way but then that very 00:28:59.180 --> 00:29:02.099 same character goes and does the same thing it's 00:29:02.099 --> 00:29:04.680 really interesting back to the cycles thing we 00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:07.539 were saying before it's interesting because it's 00:29:07.539 --> 00:29:10.140 really good observation i think it's oh sorry 00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:13.240 sorry lou i think it's really interesting that 00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:15.700 when you look at these these factions of people 00:29:15.700 --> 00:29:21.019 it's almost as if all of them inhabit some kind 00:29:21.019 --> 00:29:23.779 of area of neurodiversity and the utols inhabit 00:29:23.779 --> 00:29:26.839 this this disconnection with feeling whereas 00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:30.220 the gods are all about the feelings and sometimes 00:29:30.220 --> 00:29:32.859 there's a bit less thought going on and so the 00:29:32.859 --> 00:29:35.640 idea that Actually, the reason they're drawn 00:29:35.640 --> 00:29:37.960 together so much, that the reason that they're 00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:39.740 drawn to each other even though they're adversaries 00:29:39.740 --> 00:29:42.019 is that actually they belong together. They shouldn't 00:29:42.019 --> 00:29:44.079 be completing themselves rather than tearing 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:46.819 themselves apart. And there's this, this is why 00:29:46.819 --> 00:29:49.519 they're always kind of hanging around each other 00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:51.819 and observing each other and fancying the pants 00:29:51.819 --> 00:29:58.450 off each other. I love that. I mean in the Yutl 00:29:58.450 --> 00:30:00.349 family when they have disagreements they either 00:30:00.349 --> 00:30:02.430 beat each other up or wield out knives and try 00:30:02.430 --> 00:30:04.230 to kind of like kind of like ninja attack each 00:30:04.230 --> 00:30:06.890 other. It's very much kind of like they go kind 00:30:06.890 --> 00:30:08.710 of like down the aggression kind of like physical 00:30:08.710 --> 00:30:11.650 domination route where of course with Magni and 00:30:11.650 --> 00:30:13.450 Lawrence's family I mean I'll always remember 00:30:13.450 --> 00:30:15.970 when there was a scene I think where Lawrence 00:30:15.970 --> 00:30:18.529 tells to kind of like you've never taken responsibility 00:30:18.529 --> 00:30:20.390 for anything and oh by the way you're out of 00:30:20.390 --> 00:30:22.950 milk kind of thing. I think that was in season 00:30:22.950 --> 00:30:25.880 two and she takes it. she takes it on so emotionally 00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:27.960 negatively that she she goes to the shop and 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:29.920 she's just endlessly putting on snacks in front 00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:32.259 of wench at the shop just kind of like buying 00:30:32.259 --> 00:30:34.700 more and more sweets and she kind of like hasn't 00:30:34.700 --> 00:30:36.140 let her go at wench because she's just angry 00:30:36.140 --> 00:30:37.700 at the world she just takes herself off to the 00:30:37.700 --> 00:30:39.819 sofa and kind of like stuff herself with a chocolate 00:30:39.819 --> 00:30:41.920 and falls asleep there and now it's like well 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:43.900 magna look what you've done to your mum because 00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:45.519 you keep getting into trouble at school and you 00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:47.680 keep doing all this kind of thing and really 00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:49.559 it's larry's fault that his mum's feeling that 00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:52.519 way because he put it really quite forcefully 00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:56.660 down. But in terms of emotions with Yutle, Saxa 00:30:56.660 --> 00:30:58.960 definitely is the one that seems to be able to 00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:02.980 use them for her own gain, whereas Fjord is trying 00:31:02.980 --> 00:31:06.539 to explore emotions on a mortal level because 00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:09.460 of course he gets involved with the other teenager, 00:31:09.500 --> 00:31:12.700 Grie, which especially kind of like during season 00:31:12.700 --> 00:31:15.680 one, I thought that was a really interesting 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:20.539 kind of switch. Because kind of like we're seeing 00:31:21.289 --> 00:31:23.190 Magni trying to kind of like get into the Util 00:31:23.190 --> 00:31:25.390 family or go against them and then at the same 00:31:25.390 --> 00:31:28.569 time he's got a friend who's allying with them 00:31:28.569 --> 00:31:31.230 out of their own relationship and their own emotion 00:31:31.230 --> 00:31:33.930 he's got to kind of like deal with that and I 00:31:33.930 --> 00:31:36.049 think he does deal with it to a degree quite 00:31:36.049 --> 00:31:39.150 well although of course in season one the big 00:31:39.150 --> 00:31:41.369 thing that struck out for me is how when they 00:31:41.369 --> 00:31:43.369 find that Magnet is getting a problem that they 00:31:43.369 --> 00:31:45.609 realise he is taking on the powers of Thor and 00:31:45.609 --> 00:31:47.990 he keeps kind of like he knows of the old world 00:31:47.990 --> 00:31:50.109 as they kind of like taunt him with during a 00:31:50.109 --> 00:31:53.309 really bizarre hiking trip up a mountain where 00:31:53.309 --> 00:31:55.829 Fjord's butchering something very meaty looking. 00:31:57.609 --> 00:32:00.589 Kind of like it's it's for your not veto says 00:32:00.589 --> 00:32:02.329 well, why do we let the system deal with him? 00:32:02.430 --> 00:32:04.289 It's gonna get psychoanalyzed He's gonna have 00:32:04.289 --> 00:32:06.970 to go to treatment and therapy and be socially 00:32:06.970 --> 00:32:09.390 excluded That's a lot worse than what we could 00:32:09.390 --> 00:32:12.150 physically do to him with your axe dad kind of 00:32:12.150 --> 00:32:14.509 thing I thought yeah because in modern society 00:32:14.509 --> 00:32:17.950 it is very much psychological suffering more 00:32:17.950 --> 00:32:20.170 than physical suffering and combat and injury 00:32:20.170 --> 00:32:24.130 that we suffer from like and of course the utils 00:32:24.130 --> 00:32:29.640 kind of like are a mix of that themselves. Speaking 00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.960 of a mix, making the point about the idea that 00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:34.880 the kind of giants are the ones that have problems 00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:38.140 accessing emotion and the gods ones almost too 00:32:38.140 --> 00:32:40.740 much emotion and thinking about Lawrence in the 00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:43.259 middle of that and sometimes you do see him in 00:32:43.259 --> 00:32:46.059 this very strategic use of emotion for manipulation 00:32:46.059 --> 00:32:50.880 but then when he's actually full of need that 00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:52.859 goes out the window and he's not very strategic 00:32:52.859 --> 00:32:55.880 you know and he did he does just kind of need 00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:58.359 things, so whether it's Jens, the boyfriend, 00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:03.839 or family from his blood family. And I feel like 00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:06.000 in that kind of the mercurial nature of the character, 00:33:06.339 --> 00:33:08.900 that sort of fits as the, he stretched between 00:33:08.900 --> 00:33:10.680 the worlds of the giants and the world of the 00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:13.220 gods, but also yeah, between emotion and strategy. 00:33:14.819 --> 00:33:18.299 Obviously he's my favourite character. Goes without 00:33:18.299 --> 00:33:20.119 saying, he's everybody's favourite character. 00:33:20.180 --> 00:33:24.079 But he's also this character of contradictions, 00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:28.180 isn't he? he's constantly contradicting who he 00:33:28.180 --> 00:33:30.859 is either through gender or through his relationships 00:33:30.859 --> 00:33:34.559 or through you know what he wants most of what 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:36.680 he wants he has no idea what he wants but he 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:38.740 does he does know that people are stopping him 00:33:38.740 --> 00:33:40.319 from getting it somehow and that it's somebody 00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:44.099 else's fault um i was thinking about his his 00:33:44.099 --> 00:33:47.819 um his child the teenage pregnancy oh yes we 00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:55.220 need to get that the tapeworm that it's changed 00:33:55.220 --> 00:33:58.359 from Sleipnir in the myths to the World Serpent 00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:00.700 and I was wondering why that was and I wondering 00:34:00.700 --> 00:34:03.240 if it was just as simple as like a horse with 00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:07.619 eight legs is quite silly, whereas a massive 00:34:07.619 --> 00:34:09.940 serpent thing is very disturbing to give birth 00:34:09.940 --> 00:34:17.360 to. So it's kind of constantly present and you 00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:21.710 can't see it, whereas you had Sleipnir. you are 00:34:21.710 --> 00:34:24.670 galloping through the path people go well that's 00:34:24.670 --> 00:34:27.630 weird but this lurking menace I think is really 00:34:27.630 --> 00:34:29.730 good and I suppose it goes with that idea of 00:34:29.730 --> 00:34:32.929 the water being poisoned as well and poisoned 00:34:32.929 --> 00:34:35.750 by a monster as well as by the heavy metals or 00:34:35.750 --> 00:34:38.530 whatever the the pollution was what I was thinking 00:34:38.530 --> 00:34:49.690 about sorry you're slightly breaking up for me 00:34:49.690 --> 00:34:52.449 I don't know if that's No, I can't quite hear. 00:34:55.010 --> 00:34:56.670 If you keep talking, Joanne, it'll come round, 00:34:56.730 --> 00:35:00.110 don't worry. Yeah, it's probably me. I was just 00:35:00.110 --> 00:35:04.230 saying that it fills the cycle of rebirth and, 00:35:04.230 --> 00:35:07.269 you know, it's the Ouroboros, it's the snake 00:35:07.269 --> 00:35:09.130 with its tail in its mouth, which is actually 00:35:09.130 --> 00:35:12.429 the visual representation of this story and where 00:35:12.429 --> 00:35:15.409 this story is going. Does that make sense? I 00:35:15.409 --> 00:35:19.550 might have been kind of garbled before. Well 00:35:19.550 --> 00:35:22.550 I think that makes sense because it encircles 00:35:22.550 --> 00:35:26.110 the world and but I guess it also that brings 00:35:26.110 --> 00:35:28.190 an image of self -destruction to a degree as 00:35:28.190 --> 00:35:31.090 well that actually all these characters are very 00:35:31.090 --> 00:35:33.050 self -destructive and I feel like that speaks 00:35:33.050 --> 00:35:35.190 to the teen drama element as well because obviously 00:35:35.190 --> 00:35:37.869 so much of teenage life is creating problems 00:35:37.869 --> 00:35:40.590 for yourself that you didn't have to begin with. 00:35:41.150 --> 00:35:43.730 It's actually quite an interesting folkloric 00:35:43.730 --> 00:35:47.369 motif isn't it that quite often you get a little 00:35:47.369 --> 00:35:52.590 serpenty thing and you in some myths you put 00:35:52.590 --> 00:35:54.889 a piece of gold underneath it every day and it 00:35:54.889 --> 00:35:57.010 grows bigger and bigger until it's eating two 00:35:57.010 --> 00:36:00.449 oxen a week and it's a real problem or you as 00:36:00.449 --> 00:36:02.809 in the story the lambton worm you catch this 00:36:02.809 --> 00:36:04.789 tiny thing and you throw it in a well and it 00:36:04.789 --> 00:36:08.269 gets bigger and bigger and the idea that I mean 00:36:08.269 --> 00:36:10.809 Lawrence's tapeworm is disgusting enough when 00:36:10.809 --> 00:36:14.190 he's keeping it in his bedroom but the idea that 00:36:14.409 --> 00:36:17.769 once it's out in nature, plus, as you were saying, 00:36:18.190 --> 00:36:21.030 the heavy metal elements that are causing this 00:36:21.030 --> 00:36:25.969 kind of really unnatural growth. I think it's 00:36:25.969 --> 00:36:29.269 one of the ways that the environmental storyline 00:36:29.269 --> 00:36:32.489 and the mythic storyline, and the kind of weird 00:36:32.489 --> 00:36:34.889 teenage psyche storylines all come together very 00:36:34.889 --> 00:36:36.909 nicely at that point. It was a real moment when 00:36:36.909 --> 00:36:40.550 I went, yes, yes! And the grits element parallels 00:36:40.550 --> 00:36:42.489 another one of Loki's children. So you have Fenris 00:36:42.489 --> 00:36:44.789 for kind of getting bigger and bigger until it's 00:36:44.789 --> 00:36:47.610 too big for Asgard. And I like it. They have 00:36:47.610 --> 00:36:49.409 kind of combined all three children in one in 00:36:49.409 --> 00:36:52.809 different aspects of the story. Yeah, and it's 00:36:52.809 --> 00:36:56.570 all quite next to Loki. How are you? he has these 00:36:56.570 --> 00:36:58.550 connections to all these destructive forces. 00:36:59.070 --> 00:37:02.210 I mean, without Loki going off with Angroboda, 00:37:02.389 --> 00:37:03.789 those children would have been there, so it's 00:37:03.789 --> 00:37:06.340 kind of... he has a lot of connection to what 00:37:06.340 --> 00:37:08.539 ultimately topples the gods and everything with 00:37:08.539 --> 00:37:12.079 them. I think I've got on my note from episode 00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:14.559 three in season two, Lauret's asked the teacher, 00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:16.980 who is quite a common character, he has quite 00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:19.500 a mainstay. I quite like him, although I did 00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:24.340 get sad when he lost his beard. He literally 00:37:24.340 --> 00:37:27.059 says, does Loki give him birth to the world serpent? 00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:29.739 and asks that does that make him in fact the 00:37:29.739 --> 00:37:32.639 first transgender figure in mythology which I 00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:34.380 thought it's like yes that's a big kind of like 00:37:34.380 --> 00:37:36.539 EDI flag right there and it can kind of like 00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:38.320 make so much sense although it's interesting 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:42.199 that in this particular world of Ida that's what 00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:44.039 they're being taught that Loki gave birth to 00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:46.360 the world serpent so they have definitely adapted 00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:48.659 literally within the education to make what then 00:37:48.659 --> 00:37:54.599 happens fit. That is that is the theory. um but 00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:56.920 I was thinking about his his I mean it tends 00:37:56.920 --> 00:37:59.760 to use the show tends to use male pronouns for 00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:01.980 like Lawrence throughout I think unless they 00:38:01.980 --> 00:38:05.699 change yes yeah um and I feel like the kind of 00:38:05.699 --> 00:38:08.059 actual interior gender identity of Lawrence is 00:38:08.059 --> 00:38:11.480 never fully spread you know um spelled out or 00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:14.320 kind of question of various expression gender 00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:16.559 expressions from Lawrence and you never find 00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:19.500 out really what who Lawrence is for them themselves 00:38:19.500 --> 00:38:22.170 you know And I think that that is so appropriate, 00:38:22.329 --> 00:38:24.909 especially like Lourdes calling himself mommy, 00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:28.690 like when he's talking to the serpent. Oh, beautiful. 00:38:29.989 --> 00:38:33.210 I also wanted to, like, I really found it interesting 00:38:33.210 --> 00:38:38.110 how, how Lourdes really is so dedicated to the 00:38:38.110 --> 00:38:43.690 serpent in season three. Yeah, like, so we always 00:38:43.690 --> 00:38:45.829 see, we see Lourdes as kind of like an angry... 00:38:46.090 --> 00:38:48.090 character like he kind of comes into the story 00:38:48.090 --> 00:38:51.130 very very angry you know typical you know moody 00:38:51.130 --> 00:38:54.730 teenager um and he always has this feeling of 00:38:54.730 --> 00:38:57.909 of being an outsider um and throughout you know 00:38:57.909 --> 00:39:00.530 season one and season two we see him be rejected 00:39:00.530 --> 00:39:03.349 quite often and so when he finds that Vidar is 00:39:03.349 --> 00:39:07.610 his real father he really embraces that and for 00:39:07.610 --> 00:39:10.309 from Magni's perspective it can be quite from 00:39:10.309 --> 00:39:13.289 the outside it looks quite manipulative in some 00:39:13.289 --> 00:39:18.190 ways and um it causes a few problems and in the 00:39:18.190 --> 00:39:21.869 end like Vidar does reject him but then he accepts 00:39:21.869 --> 00:39:25.389 him again and it goes through this cycle and 00:39:25.389 --> 00:39:29.230 so when season three comes around and I feel 00:39:29.230 --> 00:39:32.329 like Lauritz has come into himself more as a 00:39:32.329 --> 00:39:37.409 person and as as his his queer identity um he 00:39:37.980 --> 00:39:40.920 Very much shows the serpent full acceptance. 00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:43.400 He's not a he's afraid of it, but he keeps showing 00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:47.500 up for He brings him food and he's constantly 00:39:47.500 --> 00:39:50.699 like nurturing the serpent and calling himself 00:39:50.699 --> 00:39:54.159 mommy and I just found that such a nice like 00:39:54.250 --> 00:39:57.989 Parallel or a mirror to how he feels in the first 00:39:57.989 --> 00:40:00.449 season where he feels like nobody nobody really 00:40:00.449 --> 00:40:02.909 wants him He's treated differently people see 00:40:02.909 --> 00:40:05.650 him differently He calls himself a free at one 00:40:05.650 --> 00:40:07.969 point and it's only his own mother who tells 00:40:07.969 --> 00:40:10.250 them you're not a freak But there might be a 00:40:10.250 --> 00:40:14.309 reason you feel different and I love I love in 00:40:14.309 --> 00:40:17.329 season one how he Is just kind of almost like 00:40:17.329 --> 00:40:19.070 in the background for a lot of it, right? he's 00:40:19.070 --> 00:40:20.510 like hanging out with these people hanging out 00:40:20.510 --> 00:40:22.409 those people never like quite fitting in but 00:40:22.409 --> 00:40:25.150 like when he is useful to them, he is accepted 00:40:25.150 --> 00:40:27.690 and embraced. And that is like so, mwah, Loki. 00:40:28.989 --> 00:40:34.380 I love what they did with that. against people's 00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:36.880 will. So when he joins the giant's dance, which 00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:38.219 I think is one of my favourite scenes in it. 00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:41.260 Oh, yeah. Absolutely. He's not invited. You know 00:40:41.260 --> 00:40:44.460 what I mean? He just feels it and he claims that 00:40:44.460 --> 00:40:47.480 identity in quite an aggressive way. Honestly, 00:40:49.139 --> 00:40:51.219 I really found that interesting. They don't push 00:40:51.219 --> 00:40:53.199 him away. They let him dance with them. Yeah. 00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:56.440 But it isn't kind of like, come on now, join 00:40:56.440 --> 00:40:59.119 us. It's more, oh, you're here. We can't deny, 00:40:59.460 --> 00:41:02.260 you know. They recognise something, don't they? 00:41:02.699 --> 00:41:05.489 It's the thing. I think the interesting thing 00:41:05.489 --> 00:41:08.929 about the way Lawrence develops is that he's 00:41:08.929 --> 00:41:12.150 developing alongside the serpent inside him basically. 00:41:12.289 --> 00:41:14.130 I mean there's a whole of this throughout the 00:41:14.130 --> 00:41:16.489 whole of season one there is this standing joke 00:41:16.489 --> 00:41:20.630 that he's always eating what's wrong with him. 00:41:20.829 --> 00:41:23.449 He's always eating snacks and then you realize 00:41:23.449 --> 00:41:25.630 that he's eating snacks because he has a tapeworm 00:41:25.630 --> 00:41:27.550 and the tapeworm is going to become the mid -gun 00:41:27.550 --> 00:41:29.469 serpent which is hilarious enough as a story 00:41:29.469 --> 00:41:33.130 arc but there is also I mean if we put my psychological 00:41:33.130 --> 00:41:39.070 hat on. There is this idea that Larry has a hunger 00:41:39.070 --> 00:41:41.429 for something and he does what it is. This hunger 00:41:41.429 --> 00:41:44.230 externalizes as the serpent and then he feeds 00:41:44.230 --> 00:41:46.670 it. So is it a hunger for affection? Is it a 00:41:46.670 --> 00:41:49.670 hunger for being accepted? Is it for something 00:41:49.670 --> 00:41:52.389 else, for power over a people? And eventually 00:41:52.389 --> 00:41:55.409 he lets it go, which psychologically is very 00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:59.340 pleasing and in terms of the arc of that character 00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:02.719 is delightful because you can see that it has 00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:04.980 paralleled his uncomfortable adolescent phase 00:42:04.980 --> 00:42:07.559 and followed him into adulthood where he can 00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:10.360 let this go and properly start being himself 00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:13.219 having gone through a number of identities and 00:42:13.219 --> 00:42:16.699 ended up as mother and then ended up as well 00:42:16.699 --> 00:42:21.420 basically free from both sides which is absolutely 00:42:21.739 --> 00:42:23.940 you know, what we would hope for, for that character 00:42:23.940 --> 00:42:27.400 who is a delightful character in every way. Yeah, 00:42:27.539 --> 00:42:30.539 because he does introduce him to Wotan when Wotan 00:42:30.539 --> 00:42:34.159 finally gets his awakening after the CRS. Unfortunately, 00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:36.659 he is killed off. And thinking back to kind of 00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:38.940 your introduction and Louise regarding Lord of 00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:41.780 the Rings, it suddenly made me had a mirror image 00:42:41.780 --> 00:42:44.139 of how kind of like Bilbo and not Bilbo, the 00:42:44.139 --> 00:42:47.969 Hobbits? No, Frodo. Frodo! Sorry, it's been a 00:42:47.969 --> 00:42:49.550 while since I've seen the films, let alone read 00:42:49.550 --> 00:42:51.610 the books. Frodo and the hobbits and kind of 00:42:51.610 --> 00:42:53.369 like the ranger and the elf kind of like escaping 00:42:53.369 --> 00:42:55.590 the Balrog and they kind of like lose Gandalf 00:42:55.590 --> 00:42:57.670 because Gandalf is effectively their sea arrest, 00:42:57.809 --> 00:43:01.050 he's shepherding them to do great things, but 00:43:01.050 --> 00:43:03.969 the sea arrest and Gandalf are both claimed unexpectedly 00:43:03.969 --> 00:43:06.110 and taken away out of the picture and so the 00:43:06.110 --> 00:43:07.989 heroes are left to try and work things out for 00:43:07.989 --> 00:43:12.860 themselves, which I think was rather apt. But 00:43:12.860 --> 00:43:18.099 also Odin's rejection of Florence is really nice 00:43:18.099 --> 00:43:20.800 because in the mythology they're blood brothers 00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:23.480 in a kind of mythical past that we never really 00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:26.659 find out why. But actually increasingly as the 00:43:26.659 --> 00:43:30.099 story goes, the stories go on, they're alienated 00:43:30.099 --> 00:43:34.019 and obviously eventually Odin sends him to punishment. 00:43:35.179 --> 00:43:37.440 So I guess we kind of start from that point of 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.639 view in Edda. like we're already at the kind 00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:43.500 of it's very nearly the end of the world and 00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:46.539 has rejected Loki this isn't a good thing you 00:43:46.539 --> 00:43:50.610 know. Well, the word betrayal keeps coming up 00:43:50.610 --> 00:43:53.429 so many times when I look over the notes that 00:43:53.429 --> 00:43:56.550 Becky made to season three in particular, but 00:43:56.550 --> 00:44:00.710 also the summaries for season two. Lauret says 00:44:00.710 --> 00:44:03.289 Magna has betrayed him, Magna says Lauret has 00:44:03.289 --> 00:44:05.630 the yurtle say he's betraying them. No, they're 00:44:05.630 --> 00:44:08.369 betraying him and so on. And Joanna is absolutely 00:44:08.369 --> 00:44:12.329 right to celebrate the way that he finds his 00:44:12.329 --> 00:44:16.639 place in by the end. And as both he and Magna 00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:19.840 step into their adult identities, and Magna throws 00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:25.820 away his comic books, you can see how when fans 00:44:25.820 --> 00:44:29.539 online say, will there be a Ragnarok season four, 00:44:29.539 --> 00:44:33.960 you go, have you understood nothing here? It 00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:36.219 can't happen. Well, it could happen to a bunch 00:44:36.219 --> 00:44:41.659 of other kids, I guess. It starts again. I guess, 00:44:41.659 --> 00:44:45.739 yeah. There's certainly a strong set of episodes 00:44:45.739 --> 00:44:47.760 that have the strong kind of like father and 00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:50.940 son theme going on because of course Vidar and 00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:53.900 Lauret's getting along and kind of like Magni 00:44:53.900 --> 00:44:56.119 trying to work out his new brother relationship 00:44:56.119 --> 00:44:58.519 but then of course Fjord and his relationship 00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:01.900 to his family and of course with Vidar. There's 00:45:01.900 --> 00:45:03.820 Grí and her father because of course that's simply 00:45:03.820 --> 00:45:06.960 mixed because Grí's father is terminally poorly 00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:09.980 because of the work he did for Fjord's father 00:45:09.980 --> 00:45:11.420 in the factory, that kind of there's a straight 00:45:11.420 --> 00:45:14.940 line there. But then there's a fortunate series 00:45:14.940 --> 00:45:17.420 of deaths because Magni does end up killing Vidar, 00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:20.739 not in quite the climactic way that you'd thought. 00:45:20.820 --> 00:45:23.940 It almost happens accidentally, so to speak, 00:45:24.420 --> 00:45:26.219 but that was because Magni was trying to protect 00:45:26.219 --> 00:45:30.079 Larritz. Gris' father sadly commits suicide because 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:33.619 he decides it's just the best way to go, and 00:45:33.619 --> 00:45:36.139 so both Gris and Fior both lose their father, 00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:39.559 and then the whole complex Magni then feels upon 00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:42.289 having claimed a life in this battle having taken 00:45:42.289 --> 00:45:45.230 that first step he's been speaking about battle 00:45:45.230 --> 00:45:48.110 for ages he gets Mjolnir made because of course 00:45:48.110 --> 00:45:50.130 he does not always do this alone dear viewers 00:45:50.130 --> 00:45:52.590 he does actually get some allies the CRS does 00:45:52.590 --> 00:45:56.170 unite him with one other god S which is Freyja 00:45:56.170 --> 00:45:59.639 in the form of Iman who is um a teenager of Sri 00:45:59.639 --> 00:46:02.079 Lankan heritage, she was adopted but raised in 00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:04.380 Norway, so it's another kind of like outside 00:46:04.380 --> 00:46:07.780 of a nice cultural mix of, well anyone with godly 00:46:07.780 --> 00:46:09.500 powers can come from anywhere, but it's just 00:46:09.500 --> 00:46:12.960 kind of nice, and she's got very strong suggestive 00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:16.179 powers, very strong stuff. I love how she's like, 00:46:16.219 --> 00:46:18.039 oh, I got these clothes for free. I got my dentist 00:46:18.039 --> 00:46:20.000 treatment for free. I kind of got on the bus 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:21.960 for free. I just have to blink and everyone's 00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:24.039 for free. And I'm just like, no, you do not use 00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:25.900 your powers to get things for free. We're in 00:46:25.900 --> 00:46:28.639 a war here. We've got to fight the giants. And 00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:31.059 she's like, well. I guess. She's kind of like 00:46:31.059 --> 00:46:32.940 very carefree about how she doesn't have the 00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:35.639 social complexities or responsibility that Magni 00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:38.139 for some reason very strongly feels, I guess, 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:40.619 especially with the Laureates connection. Well, 00:46:40.619 --> 00:46:42.500 I suppose in terms of the goddess Freyr, she's 00:46:42.500 --> 00:46:44.860 other to the Asgardians in some ways, you know, 00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:47.679 being. Yes, she is. She's Balea, isn't she? And 00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:50.199 but I do I mean, sometimes every now and then 00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:51.840 in the show, I do think a little bit of misogyny 00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:55.380 creeps in because I do feel like the way they've 00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:59.829 portrayed Freyr. is quite like aren't women manipulative, 00:46:59.989 --> 00:47:02.469 you know, rather than isn't she just enjoying 00:47:02.469 --> 00:47:04.909 the sex? You know, it's quite, there's something 00:47:04.909 --> 00:47:07.849 about it and I think obviously there's some elements 00:47:07.849 --> 00:47:09.630 of like they're contrasting with the old world 00:47:09.630 --> 00:47:12.110 and the new and the idea of the giant's sexism 00:47:12.110 --> 00:47:14.829 is kind of displayed as bad, but I feel it's 00:47:14.829 --> 00:47:17.750 also contemporary sexism in terms of, you know, 00:47:17.829 --> 00:47:21.369 the way that the myths are interpreted and some 00:47:21.369 --> 00:47:24.050 interesting stuff like the fact that they make 00:47:24.050 --> 00:47:27.559 Lauret's as far as I can tell, rather than bisexual. 00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:30.860 And obviously in the myths Loki is attracted 00:47:30.860 --> 00:47:36.480 to women too. And then they do a bit of a fridging 00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:40.679 of a gay to begin the story. And I don't know 00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:42.039 what to make of that really. It's just, it's 00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:44.159 all those different elements of kind of modern 00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:48.099 and ancient and kind of contemporary values. 00:47:48.380 --> 00:47:50.480 And I don't know how much is expressing the kind 00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:52.840 of values of Norwegian society in the present 00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:56.550 day, because I'm not very familiar with it. But 00:47:56.550 --> 00:47:59.309 because it does feel like the the utils and the 00:47:59.309 --> 00:48:01.429 fact that they're a very kind of local family 00:48:01.429 --> 00:48:03.769 is quite interesting. It's not a kind of Elon 00:48:03.769 --> 00:48:06.050 Musk situation. It's not a billionaire from elsewhere. 00:48:06.170 --> 00:48:09.010 It's a homegrown wealthy person. So it's a bit 00:48:09.010 --> 00:48:11.250 more feudal. And I don't know if that's more 00:48:11.250 --> 00:48:15.369 common in Norway. I think there is a really interesting 00:48:15.369 --> 00:48:20.409 counterpoint there between the tradition in Norway 00:48:20.409 --> 00:48:27.570 is patriarchal and quite conservative with the 00:48:27.570 --> 00:48:30.500 new. and the liberal which in Norway is also 00:48:30.500 --> 00:48:34.159 very strong and so I think as in a lot of Germanic 00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:37.119 countries there is this this dual nature which 00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:39.940 is sometimes in opposition partly because the 00:48:39.940 --> 00:48:43.219 tradition has been so monolithic for such a long 00:48:43.219 --> 00:48:45.719 time and I think you're right it does reflect 00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:48.320 some of that which to me is really interesting 00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:51.019 because it's not just about the generations it's 00:48:51.019 --> 00:48:53.340 also about the community and how the community 00:48:53.340 --> 00:48:56.739 perceives itself and why the community agrees 00:48:56.739 --> 00:49:02.289 to be ruled in effect by this powerful old family 00:49:02.289 --> 00:49:05.309 and there is a sort of sense of thus it has always 00:49:05.309 --> 00:49:09.550 been from people who might possibly know better 00:49:09.550 --> 00:49:13.230 but who obviously don't. So there is this idea 00:49:13.230 --> 00:49:15.550 that these youngsters are pushing all the boundaries 00:49:15.550 --> 00:49:17.449 and they're not always getting it right but something 00:49:17.449 --> 00:49:21.449 needs to give. They don't want to leave do they 00:49:21.449 --> 00:49:24.309 and I think it's very much sort of emblematic 00:49:24.309 --> 00:49:28.550 of isolated Norwegian field communities where 00:49:28.550 --> 00:49:32.210 there's only one industry in town and you have 00:49:32.210 --> 00:49:34.630 to work in that industry and recognize it from 00:49:34.630 --> 00:49:38.730 our own kind of post -industrialization. Either 00:49:38.730 --> 00:49:42.469 you work in the supermarket like Turid, the mother, 00:49:42.630 --> 00:49:46.829 or like Venker or Turid manages to get a job 00:49:46.829 --> 00:49:49.550 in admin back in the company but the company 00:49:49.550 --> 00:49:51.590 is the only game in town and if you don't want 00:49:51.590 --> 00:49:54.599 to be part of that then you have to leave. And 00:49:54.599 --> 00:50:00.119 it's very much the kind of story that you find 00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:02.460 in a number of Scandinavian things. I've just 00:50:02.460 --> 00:50:06.079 been watching The State of Happiness, Likaland, 00:50:07.019 --> 00:50:09.260 which is about the oil industry in Stavanger. 00:50:10.260 --> 00:50:13.679 And oil, you can try and do the fishing at the 00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:16.179 same time, but the oil is the only game in town. 00:50:16.659 --> 00:50:20.219 And the current true detective, Snow Country, 00:50:20.380 --> 00:50:22.909 said in Alaska, it's all about the mine, the 00:50:22.909 --> 00:50:27.650 mine is poisoned. So this idea of industrialisation 00:50:27.650 --> 00:50:30.530 which brings wealth but also poisons the environment 00:50:30.530 --> 00:50:34.110 and you have to live with it, you can't undo 00:50:34.110 --> 00:50:36.230 it because it will destroy the community. It's 00:50:36.230 --> 00:50:39.230 a really powerful myth that runs through these 00:50:39.230 --> 00:50:43.230 stories with a kind of mythic supernatural base 00:50:43.230 --> 00:50:46.250 I think. It's interesting that they've actually 00:50:46.250 --> 00:50:49.090 matched it with the school stuff because in season 00:50:49.090 --> 00:50:52.110 one Gris and Magniate, well originally teamed 00:50:52.110 --> 00:50:55.050 up with Isolde before she sadly dies and is the 00:50:55.050 --> 00:50:58.210 catalyst for a lot of things, have to write a 00:50:58.210 --> 00:51:02.230 paper on life in Edda and that's kind of like 00:51:02.230 --> 00:51:04.789 he gets inspired by Isolde's kind of like very 00:51:04.789 --> 00:51:08.070 rebellious protesting kind of like I'm against 00:51:08.070 --> 00:51:11.050 the whole power structure of society kind of 00:51:11.050 --> 00:51:13.690 thing she wants to topple them over and he tries 00:51:13.690 --> 00:51:16.349 to counter that but he does get pushed down by 00:51:16.349 --> 00:51:19.329 systems in kind of like even like because ram 00:51:19.820 --> 00:51:22.860 wife of the company owner is henrys to the school 00:51:22.860 --> 00:51:24.679 so she's also in a powerful position she can 00:51:24.679 --> 00:51:27.500 say no we we allow free speech but what you're 00:51:27.500 --> 00:51:29.559 actually doing is just a bit worrying concerning 00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:31.960 and then they're given loads of psychiatric labels 00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:34.780 and having to seek counsellor and they basically 00:51:34.780 --> 00:51:37.420 use the system to push his protests down and 00:51:37.420 --> 00:51:40.239 of course in season two they've now got to write 00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:43.099 a report and norse myths told to put myths in 00:51:43.099 --> 00:51:45.940 a modern context quote they were the actual words 00:51:45.940 --> 00:51:49.010 i thought Are you literally metering, you're 00:51:49.010 --> 00:51:52.550 kind of like yourself, this series. Just kind 00:51:52.550 --> 00:51:55.070 of thinking about that and how it's not just 00:51:55.070 --> 00:51:56.429 about putting the myths in a modern context, 00:51:56.489 --> 00:51:59.289 it's also a local context. So you have that idea 00:51:59.289 --> 00:52:01.349 of the giants are bringing about the end of the 00:52:01.349 --> 00:52:03.469 world, which could mean climate change in the 00:52:03.469 --> 00:52:06.809 macro scale, but it's also local pollution. And 00:52:06.809 --> 00:52:09.730 that idea of, you know, kind of the personal 00:52:09.730 --> 00:52:14.179 and the general kind of combined. As I do with 00:52:14.179 --> 00:52:18.960 almost anything I bring it back to Buffy thinking 00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:21.400 about how there's a line about you know every 00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:23.179 teenage girl feels like it's the end of the world 00:52:23.179 --> 00:52:25.000 if they can't get a party and obviously in Buffy 00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:27.099 it literally is the end of the world and how 00:52:27.099 --> 00:52:30.420 those kind of overwrought teenage emotions are 00:52:30.420 --> 00:52:33.920 both about high school in general but also specifically 00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:35.800 that you know Norwegian teenage experience of 00:52:35.800 --> 00:52:40.260 small town and I really like the point you were 00:52:40.260 --> 00:52:43.460 making Caroline about the the fact that these 00:52:43.460 --> 00:52:45.719 communities exist like this and they do have 00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:49.480 these issues. It was reminding me of Kate Beaton's 00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:52.559 graphic novel Ducks, well graphic memoir, which 00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:55.420 is set in Canada, which is about kind of that 00:52:55.420 --> 00:52:58.780 idea of the only game in town, the oil field 00:52:58.780 --> 00:53:02.599 that destroys but also is the only option for 00:53:02.599 --> 00:53:05.599 making money. So yes, there's kind of, because 00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:07.500 there's never really a suggestion that the people 00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:11.800 Will rise up and overthrow the utols at least 00:53:11.800 --> 00:53:14.300 at the start, you know, like it takes the gods 00:53:14.300 --> 00:53:17.820 to Like that, you know like that touch Peter 00:53:17.820 --> 00:53:20.480 And even then a little bit of a small town this 00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:22.760 creeps in after Vedar dies and people start to 00:53:22.760 --> 00:53:24.940 be more sympathetic toward the utols like even 00:53:24.940 --> 00:53:28.260 when You know the the boss at Edda Grillen like 00:53:28.260 --> 00:53:31.800 is giving your every stuff and Magna's like what 00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:35.039 what is happening? I mean like they obviously 00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:38.219 aren't lacking for money They could pay, but 00:53:38.219 --> 00:53:41.800 they're just giving them free stuff. Magne tries 00:53:41.800 --> 00:53:44.400 to correct that by carrying his hammer, because 00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:47.719 he does... Oh, the hammer is another interesting 00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:52.880 one. His arrogant arc, let's say. This is Thor 00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:55.280 portrayed in a way that many people would never 00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:57.820 imagine Thor being portrayed, and I quite like 00:53:57.820 --> 00:54:03.440 how... To recap for dear viewers, he had Iman, 00:54:03.460 --> 00:54:06.400 aka Fright, and manipulate a local mechanic into... 00:54:06.570 --> 00:54:09.630 making what he imagines Mjolnir to be having 00:54:09.630 --> 00:54:11.690 studied various videos, images on Google and 00:54:11.690 --> 00:54:14.329 his laptop. um and of course he suddenly learns 00:54:14.329 --> 00:54:15.969 that when he throws it nothing happens he throws 00:54:15.969 --> 00:54:17.969 it very far because he's got very strong arms 00:54:17.969 --> 00:54:19.769 his muscles just keep getting bigger and bigger 00:54:19.769 --> 00:54:22.570 i don't know how he does it quite literally as 00:54:22.570 --> 00:54:24.349 an actor you just must have been jimmy the whole 00:54:24.349 --> 00:54:27.409 the whole acting series um but it doesn't come 00:54:27.409 --> 00:54:29.789 back and that's near when unfortunately they 00:54:29.789 --> 00:54:31.469 lose the serious when she goes oh it's the most 00:54:31.469 --> 00:54:33.429 powerful weapon in the world you can't just make 00:54:33.429 --> 00:54:35.769 it there's an old fire you need to do this but 00:54:35.769 --> 00:54:38.590 that's as much as he learns and yet somehow he 00:54:38.590 --> 00:54:42.619 does work out that the old fire is deep underground 00:54:42.619 --> 00:54:45.739 under the actual chemical factory site itself 00:54:45.739 --> 00:54:50.659 and him and Wotan and a person with dwarfism 00:54:50.659 --> 00:54:53.679 from the care home where Wotan resides and I 00:54:53.679 --> 00:54:56.079 think Iman, definitely the mechanic than any 00:54:56.079 --> 00:54:58.920 man as well, they all infiltrate and break in 00:54:58.920 --> 00:55:01.219 under the guise of environmental protest which 00:55:01.219 --> 00:55:02.920 I thought was rather clever keeping that in mind 00:55:02.920 --> 00:55:06.349 as they were going and the things Magni does 00:55:06.349 --> 00:55:07.929 with a hammer like putting in a feather so it 00:55:07.929 --> 00:55:09.869 always flies back to him putting in an arrow 00:55:09.869 --> 00:55:13.150 so it always knows who to strike. I thought that's 00:55:13.150 --> 00:55:15.409 really clever but where do they get that idea 00:55:15.409 --> 00:55:18.909 from? I would like to know. Is it original thinking 00:55:18.909 --> 00:55:21.429 or is there something deep in the lore somewhere 00:55:21.429 --> 00:55:25.369 about how Mjolnir was made? Because I don't know. 00:55:31.860 --> 00:55:36.019 I think it's probably borrowing from the complicated 00:55:36.019 --> 00:55:43.059 forging of the... ...is bound, that you put in 00:55:43.059 --> 00:55:46.900 these paradoxical and strange elements of sympathetic 00:55:46.900 --> 00:55:53.119 magic... ...something which can't be, it's got 00:55:53.119 --> 00:55:56.760 the beard of a woman and the roots of the mountains 00:55:56.760 --> 00:56:00.320 and so on, and that makes it kind of... it doesn't 00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:02.400 look like a chain, but it is a chain. So I think 00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:05.780 they've kind of transposed that very cleverly 00:56:05.780 --> 00:56:10.539 to these elements that then give Mjolnir these 00:56:10.539 --> 00:56:15.079 unseen powers. But yet also kind of from a modern 00:56:15.079 --> 00:56:17.739 point of view, a technological point of view, 00:56:17.860 --> 00:56:24.050 if you want to retool Mjolnir, as it were, what 00:56:24.050 --> 00:56:27.170 things you needed to be able to do and then you 00:56:27.170 --> 00:56:30.469 have to think magically in order to put the right 00:56:30.469 --> 00:56:36.909 bits in. I didn't quite like that but of course 00:56:36.909 --> 00:56:40.989 Mjolnir becomes quite a negative force and influence 00:56:40.989 --> 00:56:44.090 upon Manny and I know I've got in my notes somewhere 00:56:44.090 --> 00:56:47.110 that there's like a whole string of influences 00:56:47.110 --> 00:56:52.690 kind of where is it not season three oh is it 00:56:52.690 --> 00:56:59.329 season three no it's season two nope season three 00:56:59.329 --> 00:57:03.530 ah there it is episode three season three saksa 00:57:03.530 --> 00:57:06.889 influences magni bad influence fjord influences 00:57:06.889 --> 00:57:10.190 Jörmungand otherwise known as little s bad influence 00:57:10.190 --> 00:57:13.869 set up and that leads into um Thor losing his 00:57:13.869 --> 00:57:15.969 hammer in a really wonderful, and I hope you'll 00:57:15.969 --> 00:57:17.429 agree with me, kind of a wonderful adaptation 00:57:17.429 --> 00:57:20.929 of Thor going fishing for the Hjormungandr, and 00:57:20.929 --> 00:57:23.429 going fishing with a giant who does not quite 00:57:23.429 --> 00:57:26.409 abandon him as Fjord does out on the fjord, but 00:57:26.409 --> 00:57:29.510 he does go fishing with a giant, am I right in 00:57:29.510 --> 00:57:33.369 the old lore? Yeah absolutely. But yeah, but 00:57:33.369 --> 00:57:34.829 I thought that was rather good and of course 00:57:34.829 --> 00:57:36.210 when he like took out the fishing tackle I thought 00:57:36.210 --> 00:57:37.769 oh my goodness is he actually going to fish out 00:57:37.769 --> 00:57:40.429 the Whirlsirp and he didn't quite do it. But 00:57:40.429 --> 00:57:45.329 it was a very wonderful adaptation. And I thought, 00:57:45.389 --> 00:57:47.349 oh, they're actually using canon, kind of like 00:57:47.349 --> 00:57:50.550 canonical scenes that Ive and I, from my very 00:57:50.550 --> 00:57:52.429 small limited reading, compared to you lovely 00:57:52.429 --> 00:57:55.170 ladies, are familiar with. And the other myth 00:57:55.170 --> 00:57:58.090 that I think that I did slightly adapt, or at 00:57:58.090 --> 00:58:00.829 least pay homage to, is when they try and get 00:58:00.829 --> 00:58:03.190 Laurix to go back to the Yuttles to get the hammer, 00:58:03.250 --> 00:58:05.409 because of course Fjord then takes the hammer. 00:58:07.630 --> 00:58:11.099 They make Well, the utils actually, because they 00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:14.380 work out what Laurits is doing, they make Laurits 00:58:14.380 --> 00:58:18.500 dress up as Fjör, which is, I thought, oh, that's 00:58:18.500 --> 00:58:21.820 a kind of twist on how Thor in the mythology 00:58:21.820 --> 00:58:24.780 has to go to the Thrym's wedding dressed up as 00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:27.460 the bride. They're making the Loki dress up, 00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:30.099 not intentionally, but out of, like, force and 00:58:30.099 --> 00:58:32.579 necessity, otherwise he'll kind of get it, basically. 00:58:33.420 --> 00:58:36.869 So he's dragging as a man? Well... Yeah I mean 00:58:36.869 --> 00:58:38.929 of course I know Genevieve mentioned like he 00:58:38.929 --> 00:58:42.050 dressed up as Ram at the end of season one which 00:58:42.050 --> 00:58:44.190 yeah that does definitely reflect the gender 00:58:44.190 --> 00:58:46.670 fluidity of Loki and how he can like change his 00:58:46.670 --> 00:58:48.130 shape to become anyone anything but at least 00:58:48.130 --> 00:58:50.010 with Ram he did that out of his own initiative 00:58:50.010 --> 00:58:53.030 and own sense of mischief with trying to get 00:58:53.030 --> 00:58:55.530 the hammer it does kind of reflect how in the 00:58:55.530 --> 00:58:56.949 lay of the room when Thor tries to get the hammer 00:58:56.949 --> 00:58:59.949 back he has to dress up for it so it's not Magnin 00:58:59.949 --> 00:59:03.349 getting dressed up it's Lauret and that kind 00:59:03.349 --> 00:59:05.949 of thing so I thought that was maybe a nice twist 00:59:05.949 --> 00:59:08.269 a little bit. It was a lovely twist. I think 00:59:08.269 --> 00:59:11.150 everything gets slightly revisited in a different 00:59:11.150 --> 00:59:14.010 way from a different perspective. But I think 00:59:14.010 --> 00:59:17.829 if we look at Thor's hammer as being his version 00:59:17.829 --> 00:59:21.969 of Loki's tapeworm, it comes from something unresolved 00:59:21.969 --> 00:59:26.760 in his personality. low -key it's hunger for 00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:28.260 something that he doesn't know what it is and 00:59:28.260 --> 00:59:30.679 with Thor it's basically rage and we don't quite 00:59:30.679 --> 00:59:33.219 know where it comes from but it sort of keeps 00:59:33.219 --> 00:59:35.320 arriving from different points sometimes it's 00:59:35.320 --> 00:59:38.420 rage about being inarticulate and not good at 00:59:38.420 --> 00:59:41.400 school or rage at not having success with the 00:59:41.400 --> 00:59:44.179 girl that he wants and the hammer when it arrives 00:59:44.179 --> 00:59:47.239 becomes an instrument of this and he goes through 00:59:47.239 --> 00:59:49.139 a phase of not being able to control it which 00:59:49.139 --> 00:59:52.860 is where he goes through his arrogant arc and 00:59:52.860 --> 00:59:55.960 his ugly manipulative arc and his threatening, 00:59:56.800 --> 01:00:00.780 weird, angry arc and then finally the hammer 01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:03.300 becomes something else. It becomes something 01:00:03.300 --> 01:00:06.300 that he can control again and in a way that that's 01:00:06.300 --> 01:00:09.840 him coming to terms with that side of his personality. 01:00:11.679 --> 01:00:15.960 It reminded me a lot going back to Viking Spider 01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:19.840 -Man. comes great responsibility, and he has 01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:23.039 to learn that lesson. And it's yet another thing 01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:26.260 pointing towards, you know, this is you're on 01:00:26.260 --> 01:00:28.840 the cusp of manhood. What kind of man are you 01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:31.039 going to be? You don't need a hammer to be a 01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:35.940 man, but you're using it as a bludgeon. This 01:00:35.940 --> 01:00:40.440 is how you exercise that that rage and that feeling 01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:44.739 of pressure and feeling of growing up, but not 01:00:44.739 --> 01:00:50.289 really knowing what you're doing. Yeah, I totally 01:00:50.289 --> 01:00:53.210 agree. And there's even that scene where he's 01:00:53.210 --> 01:00:54.969 sitting in his room like talking to himself like, 01:00:55.170 --> 01:00:57.750 oh yeah, I need the hammer to control everyone. 01:00:58.329 --> 01:01:01.090 This idea that like, he needs to have this control 01:01:01.090 --> 01:01:09.570 is something. The cross -section does quite... 01:01:09.610 --> 01:01:12.030 come quite to the fore. She has her own kind 01:01:12.030 --> 01:01:14.630 of like downfall in a way. Interestingly, that 01:01:14.630 --> 01:01:16.590 Grand Fior decides he's done with the uttles. 01:01:16.610 --> 01:01:19.929 They actually allow him to walk out alive. Kind 01:01:19.929 --> 01:01:21.929 of like he seems to almost stun me now with the 01:01:21.929 --> 01:01:23.510 fact that, oh my goodness, my son has just turned 01:01:23.510 --> 01:01:25.329 to me and says, no, I'm no longer your son. I'm 01:01:25.329 --> 01:01:27.070 going to become a mortal and live a happy life. 01:01:28.070 --> 01:01:30.789 Whereas when Saxa, I think, I can't remember 01:01:30.789 --> 01:01:32.969 what her actual crime was. I can't remember, 01:01:32.989 --> 01:01:35.289 but they do punish her by literally making her 01:01:35.289 --> 01:01:41.889 become a slave. Very much house down. I can't 01:01:41.889 --> 01:01:46.909 remember. A lot happens in these episodes. A 01:01:46.909 --> 01:01:49.090 lot happens. You can see why they only made them 01:01:49.090 --> 01:01:52.010 six episodes in each series. But they keep her 01:01:52.010 --> 01:01:55.230 housebound. She gets to do all the manual work. 01:01:55.309 --> 01:01:57.590 She doesn't lose her job in the company because 01:01:57.590 --> 01:02:01.429 Fjord comes back. He kind of like remains free 01:02:01.429 --> 01:02:04.090 to a degree until Bidar dies. And then he gets 01:02:04.090 --> 01:02:06.949 a big masculine complex of family authority. 01:02:07.210 --> 01:02:09.050 And, OK, right, I must avenge you, father. I 01:02:09.050 --> 01:02:12.539 will rise to the fore. kill Magni for you, but 01:02:12.539 --> 01:02:14.920 she actually gets that black collar put on. I 01:02:14.920 --> 01:02:17.280 thought that made me think of all the collars 01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:19.980 that you can find in like museums that link to 01:02:19.980 --> 01:02:22.639 Vikings and slavery. I thought that was a nice 01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:25.780 little maybe homage to that kind of part of North 01:02:25.780 --> 01:02:28.099 history and that Vikings were big slave traders 01:02:28.099 --> 01:02:30.940 and if the giants are the bad guys then let's 01:02:30.940 --> 01:02:34.210 make them owners of slaves kind of thing. But 01:02:34.210 --> 01:02:37.050 I mean also the the idea of being bound in Norse 01:02:37.050 --> 01:02:39.590 mythology is very powerful and it's often you 01:02:39.590 --> 01:02:41.630 are bound because you are powerful because you're 01:02:41.630 --> 01:02:43.730 a threat so she's a threat to the power structure 01:02:43.730 --> 01:02:47.070 so like Fenrir is bound, like Loki's bound. You 01:02:47.070 --> 01:02:49.269 don't bind the weak do you, you bind the strong 01:02:49.269 --> 01:02:51.670 and it's sort of almost a testament to her own 01:02:51.670 --> 01:02:53.969 power that they do it to her as well as them 01:02:53.969 --> 01:02:55.849 being horrible and humiliating her, you know. 01:02:56.579 --> 01:02:58.940 Because their attempts to get the hammer don't 01:02:58.940 --> 01:03:00.800 work. So she goes, well, I could always use my 01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:03.260 feminine guiles and just kind of like talk to 01:03:03.260 --> 01:03:05.960 Manny because he won't kill me straight away. 01:03:06.179 --> 01:03:08.280 We've kind of reached some kind of informal truce 01:03:08.280 --> 01:03:11.000 kind of thing that we've both got a sibling within 01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:15.739 both sides of the family now. She really enables 01:03:15.739 --> 01:03:18.920 that relationship he has with the hammer. She 01:03:18.920 --> 01:03:21.619 kind of like uses and abuses it very directly. 01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:23.340 Like I love how she kind of, oh I've got you 01:03:23.340 --> 01:03:25.460 in your bag for your hammered my darling here. 01:03:25.880 --> 01:03:27.599 Make sure you carry it with you at all times 01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:30.239 so that I feel stronger than you can put my family 01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:35.230 in their place. It's like when... teenagers first 01:03:35.230 --> 01:03:36.769 get their own bank account, like, yes, I've got 01:03:36.769 --> 01:03:40.110 money, I can buy things, and he just goes nuts, 01:03:40.269 --> 01:03:43.969 doesn't he? He gets on this power rush, where 01:03:43.969 --> 01:03:47.429 then that plays beautifully into when he... finally 01:03:47.429 --> 01:03:49.949 gets kind of like that kind of like grown -up 01:03:49.949 --> 01:03:52.809 talk that he has with Wotan up on the mountainside 01:03:52.809 --> 01:03:54.849 and it does get interrupted because Saksa tries 01:03:54.849 --> 01:03:57.269 to come along to disturb things but they both 01:03:57.269 --> 01:03:59.489 won't kind of make the killing blow she won't 01:03:59.489 --> 01:04:01.469 launch this or did she throw the spear I think 01:04:01.469 --> 01:04:04.110 she did but then he's like oh I could kill you 01:04:04.110 --> 01:04:05.949 with a hammer right now but I'm not and she just 01:04:05.949 --> 01:04:08.750 turns and runs and he doesn't act on it and Wotan 01:04:08.750 --> 01:04:12.239 says kind of like Thor isn't Thor just because 01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:14.199 of his hammer he also he doesn't just destroy 01:04:14.199 --> 01:04:17.099 things he creates life and they have that deep 01:04:17.099 --> 01:04:21.139 psychological dive into what is driving Magni's 01:04:21.139 --> 01:04:23.260 character and it's all about how he feels like 01:04:23.260 --> 01:04:25.800 he let his old down how he let his mum down how 01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:28.679 he let the woman the innocent woman that he nearly 01:04:28.679 --> 01:04:31.039 gets to kind of like because he does try a diplomatic 01:04:31.039 --> 01:04:33.159 way of getting rid of the utils by kind of like 01:04:33.159 --> 01:04:35.500 uncovering all their secrets doing proper investigative 01:04:35.500 --> 01:04:38.099 journalism kind of thing but of course the utils 01:04:38.099 --> 01:04:41.619 kind of get wind and stuff on top of that But 01:04:41.619 --> 01:04:44.460 speaking of Wotan, it's always made me chuckle 01:04:44.460 --> 01:04:47.579 at one scene where him and his associate who 01:04:47.579 --> 01:04:51.199 eventually becomes Himdal. and the rather unfortunate 01:04:51.199 --> 01:04:54.199 but not quite good watcher of the gods get arrested 01:04:54.199 --> 01:04:58.239 for doing narcotics. I need to try and just see 01:04:58.239 --> 01:05:01.019 what Freyja Iman saw because Iman sees the end 01:05:01.019 --> 01:05:02.840 coming and she of course scarps and it's really 01:05:02.840 --> 01:05:04.860 only Iman and the mechanic that actually leave 01:05:04.860 --> 01:05:08.079 Edda and go and make success elsewhere outside 01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:10.159 of the whole thing. They use their gifts and 01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:13.019 their powers, the mechanic loses his hand when 01:05:13.019 --> 01:05:14.679 they try and forge the hammer so he basically 01:05:14.679 --> 01:05:16.880 becomes Tia, doesn't quite get bitten off by 01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:19.079 a wolf but it was a very heavy door so I'll salute 01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:24.340 him for that. and he becomes a famous Paralympian 01:05:24.340 --> 01:05:27.039 in Norway which makes a lot of sense and promotes 01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:29.119 the kind of disability community and the athletes 01:05:29.119 --> 01:05:32.159 that they are and of course Iman becomes like 01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:34.760 she goes on effectively a love island sort of 01:05:34.760 --> 01:05:38.219 version in this universe and becomes a key influencer 01:05:38.219 --> 01:05:40.800 and that kind of thing so she kind of like manipulates 01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:43.360 any kind of influence to spread her influence 01:05:43.360 --> 01:05:50.769 but I really liked how Wotan at first appears 01:05:50.769 --> 01:05:52.909 to be a really big manipulator himself in the 01:05:52.909 --> 01:05:54.550 way he says to Magne that if you want to protect 01:05:54.550 --> 01:05:56.650 your brother you have to betray him we need that 01:05:56.650 --> 01:05:59.170 key to go and make a hammer so you can then protect 01:05:59.170 --> 01:06:01.650 everyone including your brother so I know your 01:06:01.650 --> 01:06:03.389 brother told you not to harm the utols but you're 01:06:03.389 --> 01:06:06.909 gonna have to because that's the deal kind of 01:06:06.909 --> 01:06:08.889 thing because Magne does renounce his powers 01:06:08.889 --> 01:06:12.190 doesn't he which is another weird well not kind 01:06:12.190 --> 01:06:15.039 of a weird it was it was very original tape because 01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:17.219 I'm sure even Peter Parker his moments at all 01:06:17.219 --> 01:06:18.960 I wish I wasn't Spiderman because then my Uncle 01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:20.519 Ben would have been alive that kind of thing 01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:23.000 and I think it's just the guilt even in Vidal's 01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:25.260 funeral he's there praying in a church well not 01:06:25.260 --> 01:06:26.820 quite praying but he's declaring to whatever 01:06:26.820 --> 01:06:28.900 universe is listening like please can you just 01:06:28.900 --> 01:06:31.460 stop this now I've had enough I've taken a life 01:06:31.460 --> 01:06:33.280 I don't like what you're making me do please 01:06:33.280 --> 01:06:35.719 stop and how it all ends with that big lightning 01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:37.760 bolt that shatters the window I thought that 01:06:37.760 --> 01:06:44.340 was that was dramatically well done hero's journey 01:06:44.340 --> 01:06:47.000 there is always a moment at which the hero gets 01:06:47.000 --> 01:06:49.719 to choose whether to walk away from the task 01:06:49.719 --> 01:06:52.280 or whether to get back to it and to go to the 01:06:52.280 --> 01:06:54.860 final showdown so that's basically his three 01:06:54.860 --> 01:06:57.460 act choice it's it's at the end of the third 01:06:57.460 --> 01:07:00.579 act where he gets to he gets to give away his 01:07:00.579 --> 01:07:02.699 responsibility and then take it back again because 01:07:02.699 --> 01:07:06.119 you know he's got to And you see it, I think, 01:07:06.460 --> 01:07:08.880 in the Thor of the Marvel comic universe, don't 01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:12.199 you, that he has moments where he doesn't want 01:07:12.199 --> 01:07:14.639 to go back to Asgard, he just wants to stay on 01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:17.199 Earth with his love interest and just be a regular 01:07:17.199 --> 01:07:20.360 guy, but then somebody shows up as it might be 01:07:20.360 --> 01:07:22.599 Christopher Eccleston or somebody and he had 01:07:22.599 --> 01:07:26.139 to get the hammer out again. So I think that 01:07:26.139 --> 01:07:30.039 sense of, you know, Lord, take this cup away 01:07:30.039 --> 01:07:32.940 from me is that moment. Christ goes through in 01:07:32.940 --> 01:07:35.219 Gethsemane as well, please don't make me suffer 01:07:35.219 --> 01:07:38.179 any longer like this. But to be a hero, you have 01:07:38.179 --> 01:07:42.079 to eventually make the choice to go on. Yeah, 01:07:42.940 --> 01:07:44.920 you have to reject it. It opens out into kind 01:07:44.920 --> 01:07:47.880 of wider hero myths and superhero myths, the 01:07:47.880 --> 01:07:50.360 idea of the kind of the moment of giving up your 01:07:50.360 --> 01:07:53.639 power, whether that's voluntary or not, because 01:07:53.639 --> 01:07:55.039 sometimes it's your power is taken from you, 01:07:55.039 --> 01:07:58.289 obviously. So it is interesting that it's on 01:07:58.289 --> 01:08:00.110 purpose for him, it's much more of an abdication 01:08:00.110 --> 01:08:03.730 of responsibility than kind of an obstacle placed 01:08:03.730 --> 01:08:05.750 in his way, he's kind of placing the obstacle 01:08:05.750 --> 01:08:10.050 for himself. I've got on my notes that it is 01:08:10.050 --> 01:08:12.530 in episode five of season three when Rotan's 01:08:12.530 --> 01:08:15.050 having that talk with Magni after they've finally 01:08:15.050 --> 01:08:17.739 got the hammer back. And again, that was remarkably 01:08:17.739 --> 01:08:19.500 well done because all the gods who've been knighted 01:08:19.500 --> 01:08:22.020 are some credible scheme unfolds and they manage 01:08:22.020 --> 01:08:23.380 to get the hammer back. And of course, that's 01:08:23.380 --> 01:08:26.260 when Laowitz gets dressed up as Fior, as a decoy 01:08:26.260 --> 01:08:27.979 to get the giants to get away. They don't quite 01:08:27.979 --> 01:08:29.859 manage it. Wotan is actually the remarkable one 01:08:29.859 --> 01:08:32.659 that bops Saxon on the head when his staff comes 01:08:32.659 --> 01:08:35.539 here and takes the hammer back. As soon as this 01:08:35.539 --> 01:08:37.680 man has got the hammer, he just walks off muttering 01:08:37.680 --> 01:08:39.899 sweet nothings to his hammer and ignores absolutely 01:08:39.899 --> 01:08:43.640 everybody else. That would hurt if I was in that 01:08:43.640 --> 01:08:46.699 group. I would have chased after him and said, 01:08:46.760 --> 01:08:48.939 what are you doing? But when he's having that 01:08:48.939 --> 01:08:50.760 talk in the woods, he says these words, with 01:08:50.760 --> 01:08:53.100 special powers comes special responsibility. 01:08:53.500 --> 01:08:57.119 So it is very much, he literally does, literally 01:08:57.119 --> 01:09:01.500 does. And of course, as well as Kiwi, I've got 01:09:01.500 --> 01:09:03.840 that, let's say Kiwi, he is a fun character, 01:09:04.260 --> 01:09:05.979 becoming Himedal because they go through the 01:09:05.979 --> 01:09:08.579 initiation with the strange kind of like clawed 01:09:08.579 --> 01:09:11.420 orb thing that the seeress has. and gets given 01:09:11.420 --> 01:09:16.399 a whistle, his version of the Gjallarhorn. Jenna, 01:09:16.739 --> 01:09:19.500 Lawrence's love interest becomes Balder because 01:09:19.500 --> 01:09:22.000 he is the only one that says can we not just 01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:24.140 fight, can we not just sit and talk to them because 01:09:24.140 --> 01:09:26.119 there's four of them, there's more of us, it's 01:09:26.119 --> 01:09:27.520 not going to be pretty, do we really want to 01:09:27.520 --> 01:09:30.300 go through with this? and of course it's Laura 01:09:30.300 --> 01:09:33.119 who says yes but if you're Baldr that means you're 01:09:33.119 --> 01:09:38.220 going to die. I was just going to say speaking 01:09:38.220 --> 01:09:41.220 of Jens, speaking of Jens, can we talk about 01:09:41.220 --> 01:09:45.079 the ending because I almost screamed when that 01:09:45.079 --> 01:09:48.149 whole sequence started with the arrow. Because 01:09:48.149 --> 01:09:49.670 like Louis mentioned earlier, I was like, OK, 01:09:49.689 --> 01:09:51.829 we're going to fridge our gays again. That's 01:09:51.829 --> 01:09:54.649 just what's happening. I was actually pretty 01:09:54.649 --> 01:09:57.310 pissed when they revealed that Jens was Balder. 01:09:57.470 --> 01:09:59.930 I was like, he better not die. I'm going to be 01:09:59.930 --> 01:10:02.829 so mad. I always wonder if they fridge the first 01:10:02.829 --> 01:10:05.090 gay to make us believe they do it to Balder too. 01:10:05.869 --> 01:10:09.609 That is a good point. We're capable of it. But 01:10:09.609 --> 01:10:13.729 maybe a last minute reprieve. Well, I think part 01:10:13.729 --> 01:10:16.930 of it was I thought it was a really great push 01:10:17.100 --> 01:10:20.199 back against the concept of predestination. The 01:10:20.199 --> 01:10:25.000 fact that you can break the cycle if you if you're 01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:27.260 motivated to do it. And I was thinking, okay, 01:10:27.319 --> 01:10:29.779 this is gonna go one of two ways. I really hope 01:10:29.779 --> 01:10:31.920 that it's going to go this way, because otherwise 01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:34.539 the answer will be you can't break the cycle. 01:10:34.800 --> 01:10:37.319 But you can, it's not necessarily comfortable 01:10:37.319 --> 01:10:40.880 to do it. It takes you into very uncharted waters. 01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:44.359 But on the other hand, this is progress. This 01:10:44.359 --> 01:10:47.680 is so that you don't have to go through the whole. 01:10:48.880 --> 01:10:51.279 whole thing over and over again with different 01:10:51.279 --> 01:10:53.840 peoples in the same incarnations that you've 01:10:53.840 --> 01:10:56.260 actually learned something and you can take it 01:10:56.260 --> 01:10:58.079 forward and so this this was why I mean I know 01:10:58.079 --> 01:11:01.420 a lot of people had real problems with that ending 01:11:01.420 --> 01:11:04.260 because it felt weird and unresolved but actually 01:11:04.260 --> 01:11:06.319 it was supposed to be to me because otherwise 01:11:06.319 --> 01:11:09.600 the whole of that cyclic narrative ended up meaning 01:11:09.600 --> 01:11:13.779 nothing. Though I think it was also about acknowledging 01:11:13.779 --> 01:11:16.899 the tension between the mythic and the real and 01:11:16.899 --> 01:11:19.380 quite allowing you to situate the story in one 01:11:19.380 --> 01:11:21.779 or the other. There's potentially that idea that 01:11:21.779 --> 01:11:24.180 maybe he was schizophrenic or had some kind of 01:11:24.180 --> 01:11:26.979 visions, but it doesn't come down on one side 01:11:26.979 --> 01:11:29.880 or the other firmly. And I quite like that because 01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:31.840 it's always been about the kind of porous nature 01:11:31.840 --> 01:11:35.569 of myth and real life. but I like that idea of 01:11:35.569 --> 01:11:37.649 the breaking of the cycle and perhaps there's 01:11:37.649 --> 01:11:39.710 an element that in order to break the cycle of 01:11:39.710 --> 01:11:42.510 the past you have to treat the past as fiction 01:11:42.510 --> 01:11:44.609 you know that the values of the past are not 01:11:44.609 --> 01:11:47.630 true anymore and so that by kind of citing the 01:11:47.630 --> 01:11:49.949 mythical element in fiction it allows you to 01:11:49.949 --> 01:11:52.689 kind of go on in the real world with a new myth 01:11:52.689 --> 01:11:55.770 whatever you're making up a new truth and taking 01:11:55.770 --> 01:11:58.369 the positives out of the old stories I guess 01:11:58.369 --> 01:12:00.569 the things that help you grow into the kind of 01:12:00.569 --> 01:12:04.000 person that you want to be yeah without necessarily 01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:08.119 accepting this sort of polarization of good versus 01:12:08.119 --> 01:12:11.500 evil, or as Joanne says, that you're just doomed 01:12:11.500 --> 01:12:13.840 to repeat the same steps over and over again. 01:12:14.619 --> 01:12:17.619 And I, when I was watching the final episode, 01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:20.869 I was called to go and eat my dinner just before 01:12:20.869 --> 01:12:24.729 the last 15 minutes and I ate my dinner down 01:12:24.729 --> 01:12:27.970 thinking oh no oh no what's gonna happen I can't 01:12:27.970 --> 01:12:30.609 bear it all these people I like so much oh no 01:12:30.609 --> 01:12:34.210 and then I was very pleased by the way it resolved 01:12:34.210 --> 01:12:39.029 the ending but at the same time that then after 01:12:39.029 --> 01:12:42.770 that it was hmm but I have questions what was 01:12:42.770 --> 01:12:46.970 real or what was not real of what we saw and 01:12:47.500 --> 01:12:51.000 Did the people who died really die? I guess they 01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:57.760 did. Vidard certainly died. Isolde died. Merit? 01:12:57.960 --> 01:13:02.640 Fed apparently to Jermungander by Vidard. I guess 01:13:02.640 --> 01:13:04.939 she died in a road accident or something. This 01:13:04.939 --> 01:13:07.899 kind of alternative reality becomes, if you start 01:13:07.899 --> 01:13:10.500 putting pressure on it, I think it might become 01:13:10.500 --> 01:13:14.500 quite difficult to live with. But as it is, since 01:13:14.500 --> 01:13:16.539 you have that resolution at the end and you can 01:13:16.539 --> 01:13:19.750 go, okay I'll take that and now I'll move on. 01:13:20.609 --> 01:13:22.550 I think I was seeing it as the the mythic and 01:13:22.550 --> 01:13:25.329 the real kind of departing after a certain point 01:13:25.329 --> 01:13:27.489 so everything that happened before that point 01:13:27.489 --> 01:13:31.090 did literally happen but after that point it's 01:13:31.090 --> 01:13:34.130 sort of a bit more open to interpretation so 01:13:34.130 --> 01:13:36.409 that anyone died in that final sequence was fine 01:13:36.409 --> 01:13:38.989 but if you died before that then you just died 01:13:38.989 --> 01:13:48.310 you know. Yeah, I sort of thought that we were 01:13:48.310 --> 01:13:51.029 seeing glimpses of a multiverse with a number 01:13:51.029 --> 01:13:54.289 of different potentials being played out in different 01:13:54.289 --> 01:13:56.850 ways with different interpretations onto them. 01:13:57.109 --> 01:13:59.270 So you could basically pick your ending in that 01:13:59.270 --> 01:14:03.529 way. I love that. And I quite like that. I think 01:14:03.529 --> 01:14:05.949 it's quite an audacious way of resolving a series, 01:14:05.949 --> 01:14:10.630 but it also opens up to personal involvement 01:14:10.630 --> 01:14:12.890 from the viewer, which I think is quite essential 01:14:12.890 --> 01:14:14.810 while we're talking about something that's that 01:14:15.050 --> 01:14:17.770 you know that as you say it's skirting the mythic 01:14:17.770 --> 01:14:22.329 without actually reenacting it fully. And I like 01:14:22.329 --> 01:14:24.149 the idea of it kind of being a kind of filigree 01:14:24.149 --> 01:14:27.289 or superimposition of realities and you kind 01:14:27.289 --> 01:14:29.329 of yes you say you can pick which reality you 01:14:29.329 --> 01:14:31.930 want to be in or you can sit uncomfortably between 01:14:31.930 --> 01:14:36.149 the two and feel slightly confused. Having spoken 01:14:36.149 --> 01:14:39.109 to you all it's made me think that in terms of 01:14:39.109 --> 01:14:41.409 how we talk about how it's a high school setting 01:14:41.409 --> 01:14:43.649 and it's about identity and finding yourself 01:14:44.810 --> 01:14:48.369 obviously in episode five of season three they 01:14:48.369 --> 01:14:50.569 reach an understanding they say okay we're not 01:14:50.569 --> 01:14:53.210 going to do this anymore I put my hammer down 01:14:53.210 --> 01:14:56.890 I won't use it you put your spares down we adapt 01:14:56.890 --> 01:14:59.250 the new we go forward that we all live happily 01:14:59.250 --> 01:15:00.989 ever after kind of thing and so they're kind 01:15:00.989 --> 01:15:04.630 of like the giants are deciding not to be follow 01:15:04.630 --> 01:15:06.810 tradition follow the law old law follow the old 01:15:06.810 --> 01:15:08.470 world kind of thing they're good after these 01:15:08.470 --> 01:15:12.390 are sacks it gets her power for your um he steps 01:15:12.390 --> 01:15:15.420 down but he doesn't get Rebecca, I don't think. 01:15:15.600 --> 01:15:17.560 No, I don't think he gets a new love interest. 01:15:17.600 --> 01:15:22.619 She's gone. Yeah, because she left very heartbroken. 01:15:22.880 --> 01:15:26.760 She was very much like Juliet, heartbroken. And 01:15:26.760 --> 01:15:29.039 of course, Ran just carries on being the schoolteacher, 01:15:29.180 --> 01:15:31.899 no great change for her. Magni just kind of like 01:15:31.899 --> 01:15:34.119 gets past his grades and succeeds, and so does 01:15:34.119 --> 01:15:35.640 Lauritz. And now it's kind of like he's settled 01:15:35.640 --> 01:15:38.319 in his tight entity. Everyone welcomes him. There's 01:15:38.319 --> 01:15:41.359 no judgment, no anything. And of course, he sets 01:15:41.940 --> 01:15:44.779 Little S, okay, Jörmungandr, off into the deep 01:15:44.779 --> 01:15:46.420 blue sea, okay, you go, you go, you live your 01:15:46.420 --> 01:15:48.100 life now, Jörmungandr, you can't fit in this 01:15:48.100 --> 01:15:50.359 glacier, this fjord anymore, go and live your 01:15:50.359 --> 01:15:54.220 life. But how does one say goodbye to the character 01:15:54.220 --> 01:15:57.720 of Thor? And I think the only way Thor can depart 01:15:57.720 --> 01:16:02.159 is through his comeuppance against Jörmungandr. 01:16:02.239 --> 01:16:05.220 And so when Magni comes across the comics and 01:16:05.220 --> 01:16:10.439 revisits the whole events of Ragnarok, he's effectively 01:16:10.439 --> 01:16:14.600 going step by step of pulling that essence of 01:16:14.600 --> 01:16:16.399 Thor out of him in a way. I think kind of like 01:16:16.399 --> 01:16:18.880 he's taking Thor out of his identity by letting 01:16:18.880 --> 01:16:23.039 Thor have that climactic end, do what he was 01:16:23.039 --> 01:16:26.060 to do according to canon lore, and then... he 01:16:26.060 --> 01:16:28.359 is now just Magni he's almost like letting so 01:16:28.359 --> 01:16:30.199 he doesn't really kind of like try to keep Thor 01:16:30.199 --> 01:16:32.800 alive he just does it but it of course I can 01:16:32.800 --> 01:16:34.340 understand how it confuses a lot of the viewers 01:16:34.340 --> 01:16:36.279 thinking oh my goodness okay they're now actually 01:16:36.279 --> 01:16:38.239 are having this climactic ending what's going 01:16:38.239 --> 01:16:40.819 on because you're getting flashbacks to the Ragnarok 01:16:40.819 --> 01:16:43.079 scenes the flashbox the more clapping in the 01:16:43.079 --> 01:16:45.359 hall and saying oh congratulations class of 2023 01:16:45.359 --> 01:16:48.920 off you go live your dreams kind of thing but 01:16:48.920 --> 01:16:54.989 it also relates back to his treatment of I think 01:16:54.989 --> 01:16:59.909 it's Signe. Yes, when he's under the influence 01:16:59.909 --> 01:17:02.289 of Sarga, she gets very, very badly treated, 01:17:02.449 --> 01:17:03.989 dear viewers. That is one way you do not treat 01:17:03.989 --> 01:17:06.409 your girlfriend, you do not kind of like not 01:17:06.409 --> 01:17:08.170 officially dump them and then go off with someone 01:17:08.170 --> 01:17:11.810 else. And so he's probably dealing with a lot 01:17:11.810 --> 01:17:13.529 of complex issues, writing that kind of like 01:17:13.529 --> 01:17:15.210 finding out how to deal with the relationship 01:17:15.210 --> 01:17:17.210 with a girl, because it certainly appears to 01:17:17.210 --> 01:17:20.699 me that he's never had that before. Whereas Lars 01:17:20.699 --> 01:17:23.079 is probably the more kind of like relationship 01:17:23.079 --> 01:17:27.479 confident compared to Magne. So that's what I 01:17:27.479 --> 01:17:29.439 think. But I can understand it did kind of like 01:17:29.439 --> 01:17:32.199 A -calls for season four, but also equal kind 01:17:32.199 --> 01:17:36.279 of like what was that kind of thing? Well on 01:17:36.279 --> 01:17:39.340 Reddit, which I was looking at today, a lot of 01:17:39.340 --> 01:17:41.020 people were saying they should have finished 01:17:41.020 --> 01:17:44.979 with episode five of season three, that they 01:17:44.979 --> 01:17:47.989 agreed they weren't going to do this thing. And 01:17:47.989 --> 01:17:50.510 that would be that. That would be pretty anticlimactic. 01:17:50.569 --> 01:17:53.210 I can see that they had to find some way, as 01:17:53.210 --> 01:17:56.729 you say, of tying off the storylines. And I think 01:17:56.729 --> 01:18:00.689 your suggestion of kind of, we don't need this 01:18:00.689 --> 01:18:04.789 anymore, that Thor is banishing, as you say, 01:18:05.010 --> 01:18:09.409 Becky and Magna's life is really quite powerful, 01:18:09.510 --> 01:18:12.550 even if it does then lead to questions about, 01:18:12.890 --> 01:18:15.130 yeah, they all are living happily ever after. 01:18:15.620 --> 01:18:18.960 kind of, except for the dead ones. But what was 01:18:18.960 --> 01:18:20.840 that we just saw? Well, that's what you have 01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:23.439 to go and take away and sit with it, I think. 01:18:24.539 --> 01:18:27.359 I think what Becky was saying about... Oh, sorry. 01:18:28.140 --> 01:18:30.800 I think what Becky was saying about Thor... Oh, 01:18:31.039 --> 01:18:37.460 sorry. God, I hate teams. Go ahead, go on. Louis, 01:18:37.479 --> 01:18:40.920 do you want to go first? OK. Now I've forgotten 01:18:40.920 --> 01:18:48.090 what I was going to say. Okay, have you frozen 01:18:48.090 --> 01:18:58.689 or? I was just going to say that the whole thing 01:18:58.689 --> 01:19:01.310 with Thor and his journey, I think the reason 01:19:01.310 --> 01:19:04.409 we all felt it was slightly incomplete is probably 01:19:04.409 --> 01:19:07.590 that the clue is probably in his name because 01:19:07.590 --> 01:19:11.260 they chose not to name him Thor. or something 01:19:11.260 --> 01:19:13.920 that made us think so he's actually so he's gone 01:19:13.920 --> 01:19:16.359 through the whole of Thor's journey and he's 01:19:16.359 --> 01:19:18.659 now been reborn as Thor's son and this makes 01:19:18.659 --> 01:19:21.539 sense when you look at the fact that Magni has 01:19:21.539 --> 01:19:23.340 daddy issues throughout the whole thing he doesn't 01:19:23.340 --> 01:19:26.819 know his father he doesn't know himself he goes 01:19:26.819 --> 01:19:30.579 on this this mythic journey to find himself and 01:19:30.579 --> 01:19:33.340 finds that he's actually not his father and that 01:19:33.340 --> 01:19:35.600 he can be Magni and I think if you if you read 01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:38.600 it in that way it becomes a more a more satisfying 01:19:38.600 --> 01:19:41.819 ending because yes he's going off into the unknown 01:19:41.819 --> 01:19:45.619 and and he's left behind this this mythic baggage 01:19:45.619 --> 01:19:48.840 but it's also progress forward which is why i 01:19:48.840 --> 01:19:51.340 think they gave him that name in a very particular 01:19:51.340 --> 01:19:53.960 way for it for that particular reason because 01:19:53.960 --> 01:19:56.699 that is actually does magny survive the rebirth 01:19:56.699 --> 01:19:59.039 i can't remember in terms of yes he does but 01:19:59.039 --> 01:20:02.079 we don't know anything about what he does yeah 01:20:02.079 --> 01:20:06.989 i think it's very much um It goes back to the 01:20:06.989 --> 01:20:09.189 hammer being kind of a symbol of his adulthood, 01:20:09.489 --> 01:20:12.789 his manhood, because at the very end, of course, 01:20:12.850 --> 01:20:16.529 like he's graduating, he's coming into his adulthood, 01:20:16.689 --> 01:20:20.430 and he's leaving behind his comic books. And 01:20:20.430 --> 01:20:22.789 it's very much of a sense of, okay, we're leaving 01:20:22.789 --> 01:20:27.689 behind these childish things. And it all gets 01:20:27.689 --> 01:20:31.229 tied up with that theme of, I'm an adult now. 01:20:31.340 --> 01:20:33.960 and I'm Magni, and this is what I'm going to 01:20:33.960 --> 01:20:36.279 do with my life, and I can put all of this behind 01:20:36.279 --> 01:20:40.760 me, and I know who I am now. And so in that sense, 01:20:41.020 --> 01:20:45.279 I was very much in two minds of the finale. I 01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:47.479 really disliked it in terms of storytelling. 01:20:47.560 --> 01:20:51.359 I really wanted it to be real. And it still is 01:20:51.359 --> 01:20:55.079 real, the same way all myths are real. It's a 01:20:55.079 --> 01:20:59.260 story that tells us about ourselves. So I just 01:20:59.260 --> 01:21:03.149 really, I found it that I could accept it a bit 01:21:03.149 --> 01:21:10.210 more, the finale. I kind of agreed. There's a 01:21:10.210 --> 01:21:12.329 bit in the poetic header though, isn't there, 01:21:13.329 --> 01:21:16.789 about the sons of Thor and the sons of the gods 01:21:16.789 --> 01:21:20.659 finding the discarded... golden gaming boards 01:21:20.659 --> 01:21:23.159 of Asgard and I thought that scene was absolutely 01:21:23.159 --> 01:21:26.739 about that. I thought okay this is them finding 01:21:26.739 --> 01:21:29.000 the toys that their parents played with and wondering 01:21:29.000 --> 01:21:31.399 what they were for and then moving on. I mean 01:21:31.399 --> 01:21:34.920 to me it was a very moving symbolic depiction 01:21:34.920 --> 01:21:37.680 of that, putting aside those things and going 01:21:37.680 --> 01:21:39.439 okay they're not for me, I'm going to have something 01:21:39.439 --> 01:21:42.479 of my own. Yeah and that sort of sit down by 01:21:42.479 --> 01:21:44.920 the Fjordside restaurant altogether there was 01:21:44.920 --> 01:21:48.390 very much like going back to the hall at the 01:21:48.390 --> 01:21:50.989 end of her spell, the end of Therese's prophecy, 01:21:51.449 --> 01:21:54.029 and remembering the old days, but now we're ready 01:21:54.029 --> 01:21:57.189 to move on to new, all those possibilities of 01:21:57.189 --> 01:22:01.869 a new beginning with adult life. Yeah, and when 01:22:01.869 --> 01:22:07.149 Isolde appears to Magni at the table, that, I 01:22:07.149 --> 01:22:08.890 really teared up, I really loved that moment, 01:22:09.350 --> 01:22:11.850 because back towards the beginning again, the 01:22:11.850 --> 01:22:15.850 cycle, and she vanishes, and that really is kind 01:22:15.850 --> 01:22:18.899 of, the gateway of like okay I can I can put 01:22:18.899 --> 01:22:21.619 all this behind me now I'm starting over Isolde 01:22:21.619 --> 01:22:25.199 was real and now she's gone and it's okay yeah 01:22:25.199 --> 01:22:28.960 but she's kind of with me yeah yeah Okay, well 01:22:28.960 --> 01:22:31.720 thank you so much. I would love to talk for hours 01:22:31.720 --> 01:22:34.520 and hours about this with you all, but we all 01:22:34.520 --> 01:22:36.560 have lives to live and unfortunately we need 01:22:36.560 --> 01:22:38.520 to let our dear viewers go so they can go and 01:22:38.520 --> 01:22:41.399 watch. Season one, season two, season three, 01:22:41.619 --> 01:22:43.840 it's all there on Netflix. We do strongly recommend 01:22:43.840 --> 01:22:45.600 it. There are lots more things that happen that 01:22:45.600 --> 01:22:47.380 we haven't touched on. We haven't spoiled it 01:22:47.380 --> 01:22:50.520 too much. and so many other characters, and I 01:22:50.520 --> 01:22:52.819 really appreciate all of you joining me today 01:22:52.819 --> 01:22:55.859 for another Valhalla Conversations on Ragnarok's 01:22:55.859 --> 01:22:58.739 Netflix series. Thank you so much, ladies. I 01:22:58.739 --> 01:23:00.000 really appreciate it. Thank you for inviting 01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:02.260 us, Becky, and thanks for making me watch it 01:23:02.260 --> 01:23:06.000 as well. Thank you. It's been great to see all 01:23:06.000 --> 01:23:08.479 of you. Thank you very much for being here too. 01:23:08.720 --> 01:23:09.979 Yes, till next time.