WEBVTT 00:00:33.420 --> 00:00:38.140 welcome everyone. This is a special project of 00:00:38.140 --> 00:00:40.439 mine, so to speak, and the title of it is called 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:44.280 A Queen of... Queen? A Game of Queens and Thrones. 00:00:44.859 --> 00:00:47.000 Excuse the ad lib there. A Game of Queens and 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:49.939 Thrones because it's been inspired partly by 00:00:49.939 --> 00:00:52.140 the huge success that was The Game of Thrones. 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:55.460 And actually, I would like to direct that audience. 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:58.700 to the very real Game of Thrones that was existed 00:00:58.700 --> 00:01:02.000 in the 11th century between an equally exciting 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:04.879 huge cast of characters. No dragons sadly, but 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:06.680 that's fine because I don't think we'd still 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:12.000 be around if there were dragons. So this is a 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:14.739 project linked to Norsevember, this fantastic 00:01:14.739 --> 00:01:17.879 month of celebrating all things Norse, Norse 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:22.650 culture, Norse history. Norse academic research, 00:01:22.969 --> 00:01:25.790 Norse and popular culture, from games to TV, 00:01:26.390 --> 00:01:30.030 films, comics, books, fiction, and of course, 00:01:30.230 --> 00:01:33.890 nonfiction, which there is an awful lot of. And 00:01:33.890 --> 00:01:37.090 to help me explore this 11th century Game of 00:01:37.090 --> 00:01:39.950 Thrones, I am delighted to welcome authors Helen 00:01:39.950 --> 00:01:44.250 Hollick, Patricia Bracewell, and academic author 00:01:44.250 --> 00:01:50.189 Sharon Connolly Bennett. I always get it wrong. 00:01:50.370 --> 00:01:52.069 I don't blame it on toddler brain. I'm the mum 00:01:52.069 --> 00:01:54.590 of a toddler, first time toddler, so it's really 00:01:54.590 --> 00:01:57.590 prolific for toddler brain living. I do apologize 00:01:57.590 --> 00:02:00.609 Sharon, but these lovely women are here to help 00:02:00.609 --> 00:02:04.370 me and you, the viewers, learn about this epic 00:02:04.370 --> 00:02:08.009 era, which was an era of changing thrones, of 00:02:08.009 --> 00:02:10.909 changing rulers, of course rather apt in our 00:02:10.909 --> 00:02:13.439 current time in England, well, I say England, 00:02:13.659 --> 00:02:15.939 in Britain, more to be precise, where we are 00:02:15.939 --> 00:02:17.520 going through a current change of ruler from 00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:20.759 the late Queen Elizabeth II to the newly incoming 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:25.659 King Charles III. But it's a very peaceful transition 00:02:25.659 --> 00:02:28.060 this time around, but in the 11th century it 00:02:28.060 --> 00:02:32.139 was not peaceful. It was full of intrigue and 00:02:32.139 --> 00:02:36.599 betrayal and, yes, war and bloodshed. and a lot 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:38.780 of political maneuvering as well not just from 00:02:38.780 --> 00:02:40.919 the men but also from the women and it's the 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:42.960 women in particular that I have a particular 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:45.699 passion for in this era and it is partly through 00:02:45.699 --> 00:02:48.319 the books of Helen and Patricia that I became 00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:52.539 across two of them at least anyway. So I am going 00:02:52.539 --> 00:02:54.699 to ask each of our guests to introduce themselves 00:02:54.699 --> 00:02:56.939 and of course explain what books you've written 00:02:56.939 --> 00:03:01.620 to do with this era and why people should read 00:03:01.620 --> 00:03:05.419 them, if possible. So, we shall start with Helen, 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:09.319 first of all. Hello, I was sitting there thinking, 00:03:09.580 --> 00:03:14.479 please don't start with me! Silver me and Pat 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:21.340 Helen! Anyway, hello, I'm Helen Hollick. I actually 00:03:21.340 --> 00:03:25.240 started off with writing a book a little bit 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:27.740 towards the end of the 11th century. I wanted 00:03:27.740 --> 00:03:30.659 to explore the events that led to the Battle 00:03:30.659 --> 00:03:36.460 of Hastings, mainly because at the time I lived 00:03:36.460 --> 00:03:41.000 fairly near Waltham Abbey, which was Harold Godwinson's, 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:44.080 one of his main towns. It was so nice actually 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:45.780 being able to research something that was just 00:03:45.780 --> 00:03:49.879 five minutes up the road. But I wrote, it's called 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:55.979 Harold the King and it's called, I'm the Chosen 00:03:55.979 --> 00:04:01.240 King in America. But I got so intrigued while 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:05.479 writing Harold about Emma, Queen Emma, who was, 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:09.879 of course, the mother of Edward the Confessor. 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:12.000 So when I finished Harold, I thought, you know 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:14.319 what, I really want to explore more about Emma 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:17.920 and because inevitably I just had to write a 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:22.819 novel about her. So the UK title is A Hollow 00:04:22.819 --> 00:04:26.379 Crown and the US title is The Forever Queen. 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:34.459 And I just thought, wow, this woman, she was 00:04:34.459 --> 00:04:39.980 just so incredible. And the sad thing is, hardly 00:04:39.980 --> 00:04:43.220 anyone actually knows about her, because she's 00:04:43.220 --> 00:04:46.959 pre -Norman conquest. I actually think that, 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.060 you know, if the Norman conquest hadn't happened, 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:52.480 Emma probably would be up there on a level with 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:58.189 Eleanor of Aquitaine. even possibly, well, Victoria, 00:04:58.589 --> 00:05:01.949 and of course our own late departed Queen. I 00:05:01.949 --> 00:05:05.329 think Emma was fantastic. Unfortunately, we don't 00:05:05.329 --> 00:05:09.250 know an awful lot about her or her two husbands, 00:05:11.129 --> 00:05:15.379 Brett and Canute. Hopefully we're going to find 00:05:15.379 --> 00:05:17.240 out quite a bit while we're sitting here talking. 00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:20.899 Yes, that's just a taster for you dear viewers 00:05:20.899 --> 00:05:24.279 about the wonderful triangles and relationships 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:26.360 that form in this wonderful Game of Thrones. 00:05:27.240 --> 00:05:28.779 I'm going to keep saying it, referring to the 00:05:28.779 --> 00:05:31.199 era, not the actual series, just to reference 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:34.560 and state. Okay, Patricia, please introduce yourself 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:37.139 and your wonderful works. Well, I'm the only 00:05:37.139 --> 00:05:40.139 one who's greeting you from the United States. 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:45.759 I'm a yank, but similar to Helen, I ran across 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.660 information about Emma of Normandy and I thought, 00:05:48.740 --> 00:05:51.660 this was back in, oh, probably 2000, the year 00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:54.939 2000. I thought, who was this woman who was married 00:05:54.939 --> 00:05:58.040 to two kings of England, the mother of two kings 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:02.259 of England, the great aunt of William the conqueror, 00:06:02.420 --> 00:06:05.459 the mother of Edward the confessor. She was the 00:06:05.459 --> 00:06:07.939 reason William had a claim to the throne of England. 00:06:08.180 --> 00:06:09.579 I thought, really, you know, someone should write 00:06:09.579 --> 00:06:11.860 a book about her. So I thought, all right, I'll 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:15.579 write three. And what I wanted to write about, 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:19.879 because I read Emma's, well, a book that Emma 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:24.759 had commissioned about what she witnessed and 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:26.959 what she lived through, but it began with her 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:30.240 marriage to Knut. And I wanted to imagine what 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:33.519 happened during that first marriage over the 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:35.500 course of my three novels. And so that's what 00:06:35.500 --> 00:06:39.819 I did. I began with Emma's arrival in England 00:06:39.819 --> 00:06:42.730 and... the third book ended with her marriage 00:06:42.730 --> 00:06:45.470 to Knut. So I found that the most intriguing. 00:06:45.589 --> 00:06:49.189 I'm still pondering a fourth book. And I know 00:06:49.189 --> 00:06:52.110 I hadn't read Helen's book. I didn't read Helen's 00:06:52.110 --> 00:06:54.490 book about Emma until after I'd finished my trilogy, 00:06:54.490 --> 00:06:56.850 because I didn't want her Emma to bleed into 00:06:56.850 --> 00:06:59.889 mine. But that's so we've covered a lot of the 00:06:59.889 --> 00:07:02.350 same ground in our books and in our research. 00:07:03.569 --> 00:07:07.290 And there you have it. That's it about me. Thank 00:07:07.290 --> 00:07:09.879 you very much. And now your turn, Sharon, if 00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:12.019 you would. OK, well, I'm the odd one out because 00:07:12.019 --> 00:07:14.779 I don't write fiction. I write nonfiction. I 00:07:14.779 --> 00:07:17.379 don't write anything. Helen and Patricia, because 00:07:17.379 --> 00:07:21.060 fiction just I don't have a clue. I've just written 00:07:21.060 --> 00:07:23.800 a short story about the reign of King John. And 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:26.300 it was like it was mind blowing how difficult 00:07:26.300 --> 00:07:30.300 it is. Writing nonfiction is great because you 00:07:30.300 --> 00:07:34.100 can just you set out everything. Whereas with 00:07:34.100 --> 00:07:36.620 fiction, you have to follow. You have to decide 00:07:36.620 --> 00:07:39.610 on a path. with non -fiction, you can put all 00:07:39.610 --> 00:07:41.790 the arguments there and you can either decide 00:07:41.790 --> 00:07:44.949 the answers or leave it to the audience to decide, 00:07:44.990 --> 00:07:47.529 leave it to the reader. Whereas Helen and Patricia 00:07:47.529 --> 00:07:49.769 have to decide what way forward, what happened, 00:07:49.829 --> 00:07:52.370 why somebody did it. I could say they did it 00:07:52.370 --> 00:07:54.649 because this, this and this and leave it to everybody 00:07:54.649 --> 00:08:00.910 else to decide. So my approach with Emma was 00:08:00.910 --> 00:08:03.550 actually I wrote Silk and the Sword, The Women 00:08:03.550 --> 00:08:09.100 of the Norman Conquest. And the idea was, much 00:08:09.100 --> 00:08:12.420 like Helen, to write about 1066 and the Battle 00:08:12.420 --> 00:08:14.800 of Hastings. But what you discover when you start 00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:18.420 researching it is the Battle of Hastings isn't 00:08:18.420 --> 00:08:22.160 just an individual event. It's all built up. 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:27.259 1066 happens because of the previous 66 or 70 00:08:27.259 --> 00:08:32.879 years. And Emma was instrumental in everything 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:35.279 that happened in the first half of the 11th century. 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:38.240 which would eventually lead up to the Norman 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:42.419 conquest. So I expected Emma to be a big part 00:08:42.419 --> 00:08:46.480 of the book. I didn't realize how much she and 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:50.879 Harold Godwinson's mother, Gither, took over 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:55.259 the entire book because they were both such strong, 00:08:55.559 --> 00:09:01.549 independent women for the time. that was the 00:09:01.549 --> 00:09:05.649 thing with Emma you discover that she makes decisions 00:09:05.649 --> 00:09:09.309 for herself and for her family but she is the 00:09:09.309 --> 00:09:12.309 one who makes the decisions that decide her life 00:09:12.309 --> 00:09:16.950 and in most medieval stories you discover that 00:09:16.950 --> 00:09:19.929 women have these decisions forced on them and 00:09:19.929 --> 00:09:22.190 Emma did have some forced on her like her first 00:09:22.190 --> 00:09:25.509 marriage to Bethelred but you used to see time 00:09:25.509 --> 00:09:29.250 and time again that she actually tries and sometimes 00:09:29.250 --> 00:09:31.990 succeeds more often than not succeeds in directing 00:09:31.990 --> 00:09:36.750 her own life and that makes her such a fascinating 00:09:36.750 --> 00:09:41.830 character um so that was my approach to Emma 00:09:41.830 --> 00:09:47.070 and um I have read Helen's and Patricia's books 00:09:47.070 --> 00:09:50.570 but not until same with as Patricia not until 00:09:50.570 --> 00:09:54.149 after I'd written because with non -fiction you 00:09:54.149 --> 00:09:57.289 have to be really careful not to read fiction 00:09:57.289 --> 00:10:01.490 and get ideas in your head when you haven't got 00:10:01.490 --> 00:10:06.169 the evidence um with non -fiction you have to 00:10:06.169 --> 00:10:09.850 have all the evidence you can't go on go off 00:10:09.850 --> 00:10:12.129 at an angle thinking oh no that would have been 00:10:12.129 --> 00:10:14.929 Helen said that I haven't actually got that written 00:10:14.929 --> 00:10:18.149 anywhere I better not just in case it didn't 00:10:19.179 --> 00:10:23.120 Oh of course it did! It probably did, actually 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:26.679 with the 11th century because of the limiting 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:30.120 sources you can actually say it probably did 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:33.279 or it most likely did so you can put that angle 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:36.440 in in non -fiction luckily. When you get to later 00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:38.620 sources and you've got everything you can't say 00:10:38.620 --> 00:10:42.139 that but with the 11th century there is a little 00:10:42.139 --> 00:10:44.679 bit of leeway to say what you think might have 00:10:44.679 --> 00:10:50.909 happened. Well, I personally have read both Helen's 00:10:50.909 --> 00:10:53.090 and Patricia's books. I think I read Helen's 00:10:53.090 --> 00:10:55.129 first and then Patricia's. But before I read 00:10:55.129 --> 00:10:57.830 either of yours, I actually read this wonderful 00:10:57.830 --> 00:11:00.909 book Queen Emma and the Vikings by Harriet O 00:11:00.909 --> 00:11:02.929 'Brien. And this has actually got a bit of a 00:11:02.929 --> 00:11:04.990 narrative element to it, that it quite often 00:11:04.990 --> 00:11:08.529 puts the reader in an ensue, so to speak. So 00:11:08.529 --> 00:11:10.110 it's got like a nice scene where she's on the 00:11:10.110 --> 00:11:11.769 boat thinking, oh, I'm going to this foreign 00:11:11.769 --> 00:11:14.669 land to meet a foreign man. I don't know the 00:11:14.669 --> 00:11:16.490 language well. She might have known sex and that 00:11:16.490 --> 00:11:19.889 quite that well, but it just really made it human 00:11:19.889 --> 00:11:23.110 and relatable. And then it just blew my mind. 00:11:23.230 --> 00:11:26.730 I was like, wow, who is this woman? Why are we 00:11:26.730 --> 00:11:29.070 not learning about her instead of Queen Elizabeth? 00:11:29.809 --> 00:11:31.830 I've done Queen Elizabeth to death. She's been 00:11:31.830 --> 00:11:33.970 on the syllabus for, I don't know how many years, 00:11:34.070 --> 00:11:36.250 as well as Queen Victoria. I think we should 00:11:36.250 --> 00:11:38.009 replace Queen Elizabeth with the Queen Elizabeth 00:11:38.009 --> 00:11:42.210 II and then put Queen Emma in. Just to say. If 00:11:42.210 --> 00:11:44.649 you haven't guessed, we're all known by much 00:11:44.649 --> 00:11:48.460 more. and hopefully by the end of this wonderful 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:51.799 long episode you will too. If not, go read these 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:54.200 books. The good news is they're getting there. 00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:59.279 I got an email from a school in Bolton that I'm 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:02.340 actually going through to in a couple of weeks 00:12:02.340 --> 00:12:05.460 and they're doing the Norman Conquest this term 00:12:05.460 --> 00:12:08.360 for their year sevens and the head of history 00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:11.080 contacted me and she's actually using my book 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:16.289 as the as the module leaves so that they're looking 00:12:16.289 --> 00:12:21.710 at the women, rather than from the men. High 00:12:21.710 --> 00:12:27.330 five to you Sharon, high five! Just the fact 00:12:27.330 --> 00:12:30.190 that they're looking at it from the women instead 00:12:30.190 --> 00:12:35.740 of the men is like yes, finally! And as well 00:12:35.740 --> 00:12:38.120 looking at, I mean, that was one of the reasons 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:41.899 why I wrote Harold, was because I was so fed 00:12:41.899 --> 00:12:46.740 up with history starting at 1066. And I just 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:48.639 thought, oh, you know, goodness sake, we've got 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.080 all this wonderful history right back, you know, 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:54.919 okay, yeah, so there's the Romans. They're also 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:58.419 done to death in school as well. And schools 00:12:58.419 --> 00:13:03.379 touch on the Vikings rather stereotypically. 00:13:04.570 --> 00:13:07.490 mentioned 1066 and then everything from there 00:13:07.490 --> 00:13:14.190 is wonderful William. I don't like the Duke of 00:13:14.190 --> 00:13:20.990 Normandy, sorry. But I am biased. I think things 00:13:20.990 --> 00:13:23.809 are changing now because more women are going 00:13:23.809 --> 00:13:26.850 into history. So you have Pauline Stafford's 00:13:26.850 --> 00:13:29.629 wonderful, wonderful book about Emma and Edith 00:13:29.629 --> 00:13:34.330 and there are quite a number of people like Sharon, 00:13:34.710 --> 00:13:37.669 that are writing more books. And these women's 00:13:37.669 --> 00:13:41.129 lives across the board, not just in early 11th 00:13:41.129 --> 00:13:43.889 century England, but later in medieval times, 00:13:44.250 --> 00:13:46.529 their lives are being explored and people are 00:13:46.529 --> 00:13:50.169 looking for information about them. And that's 00:13:50.169 --> 00:13:52.450 part of the problem is the paucity of information. 00:13:52.690 --> 00:13:55.409 There's so little that we have, which is what 00:13:55.409 --> 00:13:58.269 makes Emma so fascinating because she commissioned 00:13:58.269 --> 00:14:01.049 a book about herself. It's like, whoa, what? 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:04.779 at that time had done that, nobody else had done 00:14:04.779 --> 00:14:07.559 it. None of the husbands did it either, surprisingly. 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:13.100 I suppose we have got to bring into the reason 00:14:13.100 --> 00:14:15.879 why she commissioned the book about herself. 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:22.919 It wasn't just vanity, it was the reason, because 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:27.340 she needed to prove that her son, Harlequin, 00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:31.539 was right for the throne, wasn't it? Right, that 00:14:31.539 --> 00:14:34.340 was part of it. She had to, she wanted to present, 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:36.580 she wanted to tell her story. She wanted to tell 00:14:36.580 --> 00:14:40.120 history the way she wanted it remembered. Now 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:43.480 that's, that's pretty politically astute to do 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:50.000 something like that. It's almost like PR. It's 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:52.580 interesting to imagine how that book would have 00:14:52.580 --> 00:14:55.539 been read at court, in the court of Edward the 00:14:55.539 --> 00:14:59.039 Confessor and the court of Arthur Knute and people 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:01.070 listening to it because that was That was all 00:15:01.070 --> 00:15:03.129 they had. They didn't have Game of Thrones. They 00:15:03.129 --> 00:15:06.570 didn't have Vikings Valhalla. They had these 00:15:06.570 --> 00:15:10.330 stories that had been put down. And she likely 00:15:10.330 --> 00:15:13.610 knew that the chronicles written by the monks 00:15:13.610 --> 00:15:17.029 were going to traditionally did not paint women 00:15:17.029 --> 00:15:19.830 in a good light and the best of times. So she 00:15:19.830 --> 00:15:24.110 knew she was going to get a bad press. So like 00:15:24.110 --> 00:15:27.049 they do these days, she put her own story out 00:15:27.049 --> 00:15:31.990 there as well. to actually set the record straight, 00:15:32.049 --> 00:15:34.409 because she knew the record was going to be Auntie 00:15:34.409 --> 00:15:37.649 Emma. And I think one of the things that actually 00:15:37.649 --> 00:15:42.690 struck me about her autobiography, best way to 00:15:42.690 --> 00:15:46.230 put it almost, was the fact that she doesn't 00:15:46.230 --> 00:15:57.230 mention Ethelred. good again political spin if 00:15:57.230 --> 00:16:01.750 you like because she has to mention Edward but 00:16:01.750 --> 00:16:05.289 she doesn't mention his father. It's all from 00:16:05.289 --> 00:16:08.450 you know Canute's point of view and it just struck 00:16:08.450 --> 00:16:13.809 me as that why didn't she mention him and you 00:16:13.809 --> 00:16:15.610 know and I came to the conclusion that well probably 00:16:15.610 --> 00:16:18.929 because she couldn't stand him. Well I thought 00:16:18.929 --> 00:16:21.870 about that too and I think that I sort of went 00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:24.169 the same way Helen at first but I really think 00:16:24.169 --> 00:16:27.529 that In actuality, politically, it was not a 00:16:27.529 --> 00:16:31.710 good time to mention Ethelred. And we have another 00:16:31.710 --> 00:16:35.570 version of the Encomian that comes later, where 00:16:35.570 --> 00:16:39.710 Edward is given more of a mention at the end. 00:16:39.750 --> 00:16:42.870 They change the ending of the book. And you have 00:16:42.870 --> 00:16:45.370 to think about who's the audience. And the audience 00:16:45.370 --> 00:16:48.929 was full of these Vikings, Canute's followers, 00:16:49.250 --> 00:16:51.230 and Arthur Canute's followers. So why mention 00:16:51.230 --> 00:16:54.590 Ethelred? And also, as to Edward's reputation, 00:16:54.730 --> 00:16:58.409 do you really want to remind the people of now 00:16:58.409 --> 00:17:02.029 and Edward of the ineffectiveness of his father? 00:17:02.210 --> 00:17:05.170 You don't want to remind people who Edward's 00:17:05.170 --> 00:17:06.970 father was, because that's not going to be in 00:17:06.970 --> 00:17:10.509 a good light for Edward. What's more telling 00:17:10.509 --> 00:17:13.640 is what's not in it. rather what is in it isn't 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:17.119 it? Well as evidence of Sharon's point about 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:19.900 kind of like Ethelred's reputation I remember 00:17:19.900 --> 00:17:22.099 as Helen points out learning about Vikings the 00:17:22.099 --> 00:17:24.440 Second School and it was a very brief encounter 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:26.319 but especially after it sparked something in 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:29.119 me ever since but I specifically remember learning 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:31.539 about Ethelred and learning about how Dane girls 00:17:31.539 --> 00:17:34.880 was used to pay the invading armies of Swede 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:37.880 Fortbeard that the then King of Denmark off repeatedly 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:42.049 and that image of Ethelred being the weak king 00:17:42.049 --> 00:17:44.490 not being able to find them in battle because 00:17:44.490 --> 00:17:46.509 he always got there late or they'd always be 00:17:46.509 --> 00:17:49.349 done by the time he turned up from what little 00:17:49.349 --> 00:17:51.269 reading I've done around it I'm always having 00:17:51.269 --> 00:17:53.450 to pay them more and then pay them more and then 00:17:53.450 --> 00:17:56.569 pay them more just just always made him look 00:17:56.569 --> 00:17:59.789 like the weak king and I also kind of like know 00:17:59.789 --> 00:18:02.569 of course his nickname of Ethelred the unready 00:18:02.569 --> 00:18:05.150 more meaning kind of like ill counsels because 00:18:05.150 --> 00:18:08.269 he did have some Very manipulative counsellors, 00:18:08.289 --> 00:18:10.809 I'm going to shout out to Edric Streona here. 00:18:11.569 --> 00:18:13.930 If there ever was a villain in history, he is 00:18:13.930 --> 00:18:17.109 the perfect villain. We'll get to him, we'll 00:18:17.109 --> 00:18:19.630 get to him. But Ethelreddin Reddy, the first 00:18:19.630 --> 00:18:22.130 of our cast, presented in this lovely playing 00:18:22.130 --> 00:18:25.309 card here, looking rather grumpy with a box of 00:18:25.309 --> 00:18:27.190 gold. I wonder who he's going to give it to next. 00:18:27.950 --> 00:18:31.170 He is the first, really, of this great epic cast 00:18:31.170 --> 00:18:33.490 and will eventually lead to Emma because Emma 00:18:33.490 --> 00:18:37.009 becomes his second wife. because was he not already 00:18:37.009 --> 00:18:42.670 married? Yes, yes. He had a first wife. Yes. 00:18:42.990 --> 00:18:45.630 And we don't know a lot about her. We know that 00:18:45.630 --> 00:18:50.890 her name was El -Qubu. And she was from the North, 00:18:51.289 --> 00:18:53.829 Northern countries. And she gave him a whole 00:18:53.829 --> 00:18:57.410 parcel of children, what, 10, 11 children. And 00:18:57.410 --> 00:18:59.230 there is some hint that maybe there was even 00:18:59.230 --> 00:19:01.390 a prior wife before her, but we really don't 00:19:01.390 --> 00:19:05.130 know. So I don't know. I've gone with just the... 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:09.220 Elf Gifu as being his first wife. And she was 00:19:09.220 --> 00:19:12.140 sort of like a shadow queen. I mean, well, she 00:19:12.140 --> 00:19:15.920 wasn't queen. She wasn't crowned. And so but 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:21.880 she it would have been an alliance with the northern 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:24.579 nobility. Yeah, the northern nobility and shires. 00:19:24.740 --> 00:19:27.980 And he had trouble with that all through all 00:19:27.980 --> 00:19:31.920 through his life, you know, before him. England 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:33.859 had been divided in the North and the South, 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:40.059 right? At that time, allegiance was to your lord, 00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:44.559 your Earl, whoever it was that was in charge 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:47.420 of you that was close by. The King of England 00:19:47.420 --> 00:19:49.420 was way down in the South and the people in the 00:19:49.420 --> 00:19:52.759 North really didn't have much to do with them. 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:57.680 To be fair, even after William the Conqueror, 00:19:57.819 --> 00:20:00.420 we in the North still weren't actually being 00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:04.799 that loyal. William had to come tell us off when 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:10.380 he came. They even talk differently now. They're 00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:17.039 doing a divide to some extent. So I think Ethelred 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:21.980 was... personally, my view was he was not a strong 00:20:21.980 --> 00:20:25.059 king. If he had died at the age of 34, like his 00:20:25.059 --> 00:20:27.359 father did, he would have been remembered very 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:32.019 differently than he is today. But he was very, 00:20:32.019 --> 00:20:37.799 not so much unready, but unlucky. It was a perfect 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:40.359 storm, time of a perfect storm, that brought 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:44.359 the Danes, the Vikings, again and again and again 00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:47.680 to his shorts, and he could not unite his kingdom 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:53.500 against them. He made bad decisions about who 00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:56.740 to trust. We'll get into Edric in a little bit. 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:02.400 And he had this really unhappy tendency of killing 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:07.400 off people that pissed him off. So he did tend 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:10.680 to execute people. And so you don't see a king 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:16.180 acting within the law. So those were the the 00:21:16.180 --> 00:21:20.900 crimes, I guess, of Ethelred. He was, I don't 00:21:20.900 --> 00:21:23.519 think I would have liked him as a person personally. 00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:31.220 Yeah, I agree. I'm just wondering, kind of like, 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:36.299 is our image and interpretation of Ethelred as, 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:38.220 maybe not necessarily as a bad man, but as a 00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:40.700 bad king, is it well and truly justified within 00:21:40.700 --> 00:21:44.500 all the historical artifacts, documentation? 00:21:45.069 --> 00:21:47.950 or has it been tainted by kind of like later 00:21:47.950 --> 00:21:51.289 Victorian age possibly? I blame the Victorians 00:21:51.289 --> 00:21:55.990 for a lot. Their version of history was very 00:21:55.990 --> 00:22:00.769 moralistic and you were good or bad and I've 00:22:00.769 --> 00:22:03.009 been through a lot of things recently and it's 00:22:03.009 --> 00:22:05.410 like oh yeah the Victorians and their idea of 00:22:05.410 --> 00:22:08.410 history they and also they made up a few bits 00:22:08.410 --> 00:22:13.509 when they had a gap they just filled it. I think, 00:22:13.609 --> 00:22:18.750 like Pat says, Ethelred was very unlucky. I mean, 00:22:19.210 --> 00:22:21.970 you talk about the Dane girl and him paying off 00:22:21.970 --> 00:22:24.990 the Danes. He wasn't the first to do it. He didn't 00:22:24.990 --> 00:22:27.829 invent it. Even King Alfred paid off the Danes 00:22:27.829 --> 00:22:31.430 when he couldn't build an army to face them. 00:22:32.789 --> 00:22:39.730 And he gave them goth from East Anglia. It wasn't 00:22:39.730 --> 00:22:43.240 a new system. um unfortunately with Ethelred 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:45.880 it just meant the Danes just kept coming back 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:47.880 for more and then it got more and more expensive 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:53.480 every year. He um but he was also unlucky in 00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:57.640 his in the people he had around him like Idrik 00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:03.460 Stryona, Thorkell the Tall who was a Viking who 00:23:03.460 --> 00:23:06.079 swore to Ethelred but then decided he wanted 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:09.869 to go back to Canute. It was and I mean you have 00:23:09.869 --> 00:23:14.329 to look at it, even with Edric, he, he, Ethelred 00:23:14.329 --> 00:23:17.730 gave him his daughter, you know, he married his 00:23:17.730 --> 00:23:20.289 daughters to these earls to try them, to tie 00:23:20.289 --> 00:23:23.690 them to him and they still betrayed him. And 00:23:23.690 --> 00:23:26.490 usually that didn't, you know, usually if you're 00:23:26.490 --> 00:23:27.990 married to the king's daughter, you're sort of 00:23:27.990 --> 00:23:31.730 on the king's side. So every lord seemed to be 00:23:31.730 --> 00:23:34.549 out for themselves rather than England and that 00:23:34.549 --> 00:23:37.609 didn't help Ethelred at all. He couldn't rely 00:23:37.609 --> 00:23:41.680 on anybody. and I don't think that didn't help. 00:23:42.339 --> 00:23:44.220 I want to bring up your comparison to Alfred 00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:47.559 because Alfred united but he had a very much 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:51.339 smaller area to unite. He only had Wessex and 00:23:51.339 --> 00:23:54.400 really Everett is the first time that we see 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:58.140 somebody having to govern all the way from the 00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:00.559 Channel all the way to Scotland. His father did 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.720 it but his father I think was probably he was 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:07.839 called Edgar the Peaceable but he was probably 00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:12.559 a little hard fisted in order to do that. And 00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:15.059 he had alliances with the Scottish King and with 00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:17.779 the Welsh and that sort of thing. Ethelred never, 00:24:18.259 --> 00:24:22.099 he was doing something new. really trying to 00:24:22.099 --> 00:24:25.900 control all of that area and he just didn't have 00:24:25.900 --> 00:24:28.460 the wherewithal there was nothing in place for 00:24:28.460 --> 00:24:31.099 him to do it. I don't think anybody did at that 00:24:31.099 --> 00:24:34.880 time either because you have to remember communications 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:37.660 in those days everything was done by you know 00:24:37.660 --> 00:24:39.599 you had to get on a horse if you wanted to send 00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:44.079 a message. They were traveling fast distances 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:47.660 and you look at when Canute actually came to 00:24:47.660 --> 00:24:53.599 power He didn't rule England. He gave areas of 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:58.319 England. He gave Northumbria to... Was he Thorkell? 00:24:58.500 --> 00:25:01.799 I can't remember. You know, he separated them 00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:03.940 all. He gave Northumbria to one person, East 00:25:03.940 --> 00:25:07.200 Anglia to another, Mercia to Eadric, which didn't 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:13.220 last long. But, you know, he knew that you could 00:25:13.220 --> 00:25:18.140 not be in... several places at once. So you had 00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:21.200 to separate the powers so that they were smaller 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:25.440 areas. Even if you were the one in charge, you 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:29.140 had to be able to trust others to rule certain 00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:31.980 areas because it was such a big land in those 00:25:31.980 --> 00:25:37.059 days. And Knut, getting back to Knut, he really 00:25:37.059 --> 00:25:40.200 valued loyalty. And we saw that for him, that 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:43.440 was a really strong, important point. And that 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:45.640 was the problem with Ethered. He couldn't find 00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:48.079 anyone that was really loyal to him. They were 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:51.880 loyal to their own connections. And so that was 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:54.319 a big difference between the two men. And their 00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:59.279 own self -interest. I think as well that the 00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:02.740 men and the women of the time respected Cnut, 00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:09.049 whereas Ethered wasn't respected. probably, I 00:26:09.049 --> 00:26:11.450 don't know, I think possibly because Ethelred 00:26:11.450 --> 00:26:14.529 didn't handle things as well as he should, and 00:26:14.529 --> 00:26:20.650 perhaps he wasn't as consistent, maybe, was, 00:26:20.650 --> 00:26:23.849 I think, Canute, because he had, perhaps, I don't 00:26:23.849 --> 00:26:26.150 know, did he have an aura more about him or something, 00:26:26.750 --> 00:26:30.750 but he was more, because he was respected, people, 00:26:31.230 --> 00:26:33.369 okay, fine, yeah, that's what you want us to 00:26:33.369 --> 00:26:37.359 do, we'll do that. We won't go against you. Whereas 00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:39.559 with Ethelred, it's well, you know, blow that 00:26:39.559 --> 00:26:43.859 for a game of Skittles. You know, that's what 00:26:43.859 --> 00:26:48.440 I think. It's perhaps interesting, kind of like 00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:52.339 thinking on a very basic level, because did Ethelred 00:26:52.339 --> 00:26:56.740 ever engage the armies in battle? Because I've 00:26:56.740 --> 00:26:58.500 done very least reading, and I always get the 00:26:58.500 --> 00:27:00.599 impression that kind of like he'd send out an 00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:02.640 army, but they'd get there days after the Vikings 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:05.079 had already moved on. and gone to their next 00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:07.160 raiding target or they'd already sailed away 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:10.839 he didn't ever seem to get that kind of like 00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:13.099 that first victory that first step that first 00:27:13.099 --> 00:27:15.900 show of might and force so i'm instantly thinking 00:27:15.900 --> 00:27:19.619 back to kind of use the kind of like analogy 00:27:19.619 --> 00:27:21.779 but kind of like football managers when you get 00:27:21.779 --> 00:27:23.480 have a football manager and the team doesn't 00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:25.640 score a single goal in five games everyone's 00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:30.960 looking to axe a manager and get a new one Yes. 00:27:31.480 --> 00:27:34.039 There was one time where he had his army ready 00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:37.099 to stop the Danes from reaching their ships, 00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:39.519 and Andric talked him out of it. Andric said, 00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:46.220 let them go. So we don't know why. And he took 00:27:46.220 --> 00:27:50.680 an army and took it to near the isle up to Wales 00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:53.940 at one point. So those were the two times that 00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:55.839 I can think of that he actually led an army. 00:27:55.940 --> 00:27:58.480 Of course, we have Britnok at the Battle of Malden. 00:27:59.629 --> 00:28:01.329 standing in for the king, and the king would 00:28:01.329 --> 00:28:03.529 have been very young at that time. And so when 00:28:03.529 --> 00:28:10.150 he was young, we don't see him as a real warrior 00:28:10.150 --> 00:28:14.890 king. We don't see him as a warrior king. So 00:28:14.890 --> 00:28:18.269 yeah, you're right. He wasn't ever able to do 00:28:18.269 --> 00:28:22.619 that until he came back. We came back from Normandy 00:28:22.619 --> 00:28:25.619 after he'd given up everything to Sven. He came 00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:28.299 back and how did he win? He had Thorkell the 00:28:28.299 --> 00:28:34.240 Tall with him. He had, who was it? Saint Olaf 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:37.039 with him. So we had a Viking army and he went 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:39.240 up against Knut's Viking army and that was the 00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:41.400 only time that he was really a winner. There 00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:44.039 were two Viking armies facing off against each 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:48.380 other. Yes, and unfortunately, well, he died 00:28:48.380 --> 00:28:53.140 soon after, didn't he? Right. After that, yes. 00:28:53.980 --> 00:28:56.980 So yeah, I suppose in a way, yes, he was unlucky, 00:28:57.339 --> 00:29:00.240 but then perhaps it would have been different 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:07.140 if he'd had better advisors. Who knows? You have 00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:11.440 to work with what you've got. Yes. You know, 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:13.400 you have to work with what you've got. And he 00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:16.799 did try to get them on his side and to trust 00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:19.119 them. and to get them to trust him by marrying 00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:21.539 his daughters do them. It's just they still ended 00:29:21.539 --> 00:29:25.220 up with self -interest. But you look at the end 00:29:25.220 --> 00:29:30.720 of it in 1014 -1560 and his son Athelstan was 00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.799 fighting for him. You had Edmund Ironside fighting 00:29:34.799 --> 00:29:37.240 for him and I remember an incident with Edmund 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.079 where he had the army ready to go against the 00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:43.859 Vikings and Athelred called him back and told 00:29:43.859 --> 00:29:46.730 him he couldn't do it. but and because Edmund 00:29:46.730 --> 00:29:49.670 wasn't the king at the time he couldn't he didn't 00:29:49.670 --> 00:29:54.009 have the authority to lead the army without his 00:29:54.009 --> 00:29:59.450 father's consent so you have this thing where 00:29:59.450 --> 00:30:03.509 Ethelred is the one in charge well unfortunately 00:30:03.509 --> 00:30:07.710 he's not the one with the backbone yeah it must 00:30:07.710 --> 00:30:09.650 have been hard for the people for the fighting 00:30:09.650 --> 00:30:11.690 men at the time who lived in England because 00:30:11.690 --> 00:30:15.450 you fought for your lord right yeah well So you 00:30:15.450 --> 00:30:21.029 had Edric Stryona, who was the Earl of Mercia. 00:30:21.730 --> 00:30:25.089 So they owed allegiance to him, but he gave his 00:30:25.089 --> 00:30:27.329 allegiance to Knut. And you have Knut saying 00:30:27.329 --> 00:30:30.150 that he was king. And then you have Edmund saying, 00:30:30.369 --> 00:30:33.329 well, my dad is king, but the king is in London 00:30:33.329 --> 00:30:37.630 and not wanting to go fight. So the poor people 00:30:37.630 --> 00:30:41.930 of England must have just been, oh, no. Who's 00:30:41.930 --> 00:30:47.400 king? Who's in charge here? Okay for the viewers 00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:49.700 I'm going to give a kind of like a playing card 00:30:49.700 --> 00:30:52.680 101 roll through of basically nearly a century 00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:55.779 of how many times England changed kings. So we 00:30:55.779 --> 00:30:59.599 began with Ethelred. Now Emma came over from 00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:02.359 Normandy and if you don't know this viewers Normans 00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:06.359 are in fact civilized Vikings. They basically 00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:08.619 won the land of Normandy settled down and became 00:31:08.619 --> 00:31:10.960 an elite fighting force with cavalry. Who knew? 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:14.859 But yes, Emma came over from them. It's a part 00:31:14.859 --> 00:31:17.799 of an allegiance between Normandy and England 00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:19.519 and the hope that they'd both get each other's 00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:21.220 backs when the Vikings are harrowing their shores. 00:31:21.700 --> 00:31:26.460 That didn't really work out. It was the Normans, 00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:31.019 the Vikings used to winter in Normandy and Ethelred 00:31:31.019 --> 00:31:35.460 hoped that by marrying Emma, the Normans would 00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:39.940 not offer the sanctuary to the Vikings. It didn't 00:31:39.940 --> 00:31:44.000 work. I'm pretty sure the Vikings just paid more 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:47.779 money to the Normans and just thumbed their nose 00:31:47.779 --> 00:31:52.940 up at poor Ethel Rip. Yeah. Norman is short for 00:31:52.940 --> 00:31:55.140 Northman. Yeah, exactly. I'm not going to stop 00:31:55.140 --> 00:31:56.960 my cousin coming here just because you want me 00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:01.240 to. I've certainly never got the impression that 00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:04.380 the Normans ever sent, or shall I say the dupes 00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:07.509 of Normandy, ever sent reinforcements to... to 00:32:07.509 --> 00:32:11.470 help their kind of like sister in her own domain. 00:32:11.769 --> 00:32:13.849 No that never seemed to work did it? I think 00:32:13.849 --> 00:32:15.630 it seemed to be more of an agreement of we'll 00:32:15.630 --> 00:32:20.269 stay out of it. Or just getting a family foot 00:32:20.269 --> 00:32:23.609 in the domain which did work out to a degree. 00:32:24.549 --> 00:32:29.470 So Edma married Ethelred. Ethelred already had 00:32:29.470 --> 00:32:33.109 several sons both of which were mentioned Athelstan 00:32:33.109 --> 00:32:36.130 and Edmund. Athelstan was the oldest then Edmund 00:32:36.130 --> 00:32:39.980 the first. Well, Edmund came second. Emma did 00:32:39.980 --> 00:32:44.299 have two more sons with Ethelred. She had Alfred 00:32:44.299 --> 00:32:48.460 and Edward. Is that right? Edward first, then 00:32:48.460 --> 00:32:53.319 Alfred. Yes. So you've got Ethelstan and Edward 00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:56.359 and then you've got Edmund and Alfred. A very 00:32:56.359 --> 00:32:58.200 generational part because they're a lot older. 00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:01.619 Before Emma, I think he had something like five 00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:05.170 sons with his first wife. and one of those was 00:33:05.170 --> 00:33:07.809 still alive when King Canute became king, but 00:33:07.809 --> 00:33:10.509 he didn't survive, Edwy, he didn't survive much 00:33:10.509 --> 00:33:14.289 longer after. Understandably, understandably. 00:33:14.369 --> 00:33:15.690 Well as you might have guessed viewers, there 00:33:15.690 --> 00:33:19.269 was a lot of Viking invasions going on during 00:33:19.269 --> 00:33:22.309 the reign of Ethelred. Kingswing, Borkbeard, 00:33:22.390 --> 00:33:24.109 Denmark decided that he wanted to have a piece 00:33:24.109 --> 00:33:27.049 of England and so kept coming back and back and 00:33:27.049 --> 00:33:30.349 harrying here and raiding there and... overwintering 00:33:30.349 --> 00:33:32.470 and then taking money and going back again. He 00:33:32.470 --> 00:33:35.029 had his son Knut with him, he had another son 00:33:35.029 --> 00:33:38.329 called Harald kind of like sitting in situ in 00:33:38.329 --> 00:33:43.130 Denmark if anything ever happened. Eventually 00:33:43.130 --> 00:33:46.529 the Ethelred actually, hang on I'm trying to 00:33:46.529 --> 00:33:49.630 catch my history now. Okay I'm going to let you 00:33:49.630 --> 00:33:50.950 ladies explain it because you can explain it 00:33:50.950 --> 00:33:54.000 better. How did Edmund Edmund earned his name 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:56.920 iron side and how did he end up getting, I'm 00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:58.680 gonna guess he was crowned king because he's 00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:08.239 got a playing card with his name on. Well, as 00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:10.619 we have already mentioned, I think Ethel already 00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:17.260 did try to drive back the Vikings, Svein and 00:34:17.260 --> 00:34:21.340 Knut. didn't work out so but basically well he 00:34:21.340 --> 00:34:27.360 fled into exile, didn't he? But then didn't Svein 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:31.019 die? Is that why Æthelred came back from Æthelred? 00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:35.039 Yes, Svein died in February of 1014 and Æthelred 00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:41.400 came and the Wytan had gathered in York in 1014 00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:45.300 and they were going to crown Sven King because 00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:48.519 the whole country had submitted. Ethelred absconded. 00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:51.900 He went to Normandy which is, you know, took 00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:56.800 his Emma and their children to Normandy. But 00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:01.659 Sven died and that left nobody in charge. Knut 00:35:01.659 --> 00:35:05.360 was there with an army up in the north and Knut 00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:07.219 thought that he was going to be king because 00:35:07.219 --> 00:35:10.460 he was Sven's heir, right? His brother Harold 00:35:10.460 --> 00:35:12.659 was in Denmark, so he was going to get Denmark. 00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:16.800 So what was left for Knute? It was England. Well, 00:35:17.659 --> 00:35:19.840 Witten did not agree with that, and they sent 00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:21.940 a message to Athelred and said, please come back, 00:35:22.019 --> 00:35:25.019 but be nicer to us than you were before. And 00:35:25.019 --> 00:35:28.199 so he said he would. So he came back with, as 00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:33.960 I said, a Viking army and gathered men. Anglo 00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:36.719 -Saxon army as well, presumably, and they went 00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:39.860 up and drove out Knut's army. They left. They 00:35:39.860 --> 00:35:44.679 went back to Denmark, and they cut off the noses 00:35:44.679 --> 00:35:48.079 and the ears of the hostages that they have, 00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:50.599 because that was all part of making peace. You 00:35:50.599 --> 00:35:54.559 gave hostages to say that, yes, you will be king, 00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:56.659 which is what they had done with Svein. They 00:35:56.659 --> 00:35:59.739 were Svein's hostages, and they had turned against 00:35:59.739 --> 00:36:03.630 Svein and Knut once Svein died. And so those 00:36:03.630 --> 00:36:07.469 hostages were mutilated, which didn't make people 00:36:07.469 --> 00:36:10.809 love Knut very much, I would imagine. One thing 00:36:10.809 --> 00:36:13.070 I want to point out that happened during Ethelwood's 00:36:13.070 --> 00:36:16.510 reign, two things. He made the huge mistake of 00:36:16.510 --> 00:36:19.469 the St. Bryce's Day Massacre, where he went in 00:36:19.469 --> 00:36:21.989 and ordered all the Danes in England to be killed. 00:36:22.110 --> 00:36:24.190 Now, they probably weren't all the Danes in England 00:36:24.190 --> 00:36:27.309 because the Dane law was full of Danes, but probably 00:36:27.309 --> 00:36:31.090 several shiploads of Danes who had been raiding 00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:34.579 in the areas where they had settled. And that 00:36:34.579 --> 00:36:37.460 turned Sven Forkbeard against him because one 00:36:37.460 --> 00:36:40.860 of the women that was killed was Sven's relative. 00:36:41.300 --> 00:36:44.900 And so that made Sven decide that he was going 00:36:44.900 --> 00:36:47.900 to not just raid England, but he was going to 00:36:47.900 --> 00:36:49.579 get rid of Ethelred and he was going to take 00:36:49.579 --> 00:36:52.360 over. The other thing that Ethelred, the one 00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:56.320 thing that he did that was good was in all that 00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:59.179 time, he managed to keep the kingdom running. 00:37:01.560 --> 00:37:05.579 the infrastructure of England still existed despite 00:37:05.579 --> 00:37:08.260 everything that went on. We still have culture, 00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:12.019 we still have laws, we still have charters being 00:37:12.019 --> 00:37:16.159 given, we still have the machinery of government 00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:18.820 continued, which is kind of amazing when you 00:37:18.820 --> 00:37:21.219 start to think about it because given all the 00:37:21.219 --> 00:37:25.579 raids and what happened with the Vikings coming 00:37:25.579 --> 00:37:28.860 in and trying to disrupt everything, they still 00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:34.980 managed to continue. So at this point, in 1014, 00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:38.719 Knut is gone. Ethelred is now back on the throne. 00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:42.440 He's driven out the Vikings and all the little 00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:45.380 patches of Vikings that had been settled in England 00:37:45.380 --> 00:37:49.800 by Knut or by Sven. And now he's ruling. And 00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:54.179 that lasted for a year. In 1015, Knut came roaring 00:37:54.179 --> 00:37:58.000 back with another army that he gathered. And 00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:03.820 then we have the setup between Ethelred and Knut. 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.659 And Ethelred had gathered an army and was going 00:38:06.659 --> 00:38:11.159 to fight against Knut, and he got sick. And then 00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:17.380 that leads us into Edric Streona. What do you 00:38:17.380 --> 00:38:23.630 want to say about Edric, ladies? Oh, Edric, such 00:38:23.630 --> 00:38:29.210 a lovely man. I wonder how many people, I wonder 00:38:29.210 --> 00:38:31.070 if he actually counted how many people he stabbed 00:38:31.070 --> 00:38:38.159 in the back. For a fiction author, he is the 00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:47.820 ideal baddie, isn't he? I have a quote from John 00:38:47.820 --> 00:38:50.420 of Worcester who was writing in the 12th century 00:38:50.420 --> 00:38:53.679 and he says, Edric surpassed all men of that 00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:56.619 time both in malice and treachery and in arrogance 00:38:56.619 --> 00:39:01.840 and cruelty. I think it's the fact that he did 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:05.679 betray his leader lord or his alliances and he 00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:09.320 got away with it so many times yes but then he 00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:12.679 did i mean and but when he did betray in the 00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:15.860 end when he did betray edmund ironside he did 00:39:15.860 --> 00:39:18.119 it spectacularly they were in the middle of the 00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:20.940 battle of ascenden and he just turned around 00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:24.500 and walked away and left poor edmund to it and 00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:27.239 of course losing what would have been about I 00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:29.179 think there was another lord as well who pulled 00:39:29.179 --> 00:39:31.960 out so he lost about half his army and he's facing 00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:35.380 canoe you know it's like suddenly you've got 00:39:35.380 --> 00:39:39.199 to sue for peace because Edric's done it again 00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:42.000 and it wasn't the first time is it wonder anybody 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:44.159 actually you know you've got this image of him 00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:47.500 stood Edmund stood there ready for battle to 00:39:47.500 --> 00:39:50.719 start and going right so are we taking bets on 00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:52.780 when Edric's going to turn around and walk away 00:39:52.780 --> 00:39:56.619 or do you think he's going to fight? And of course 00:39:56.619 --> 00:40:00.460 Edmund Ironside was, I don't know, was he actually 00:40:00.460 --> 00:40:02.420 crowned king? I can't remember. I don't know 00:40:02.420 --> 00:40:04.880 if he was actually crowned. No, he wasn't, was 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:07.800 he? Well, I've given him a playing card, that's 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:09.579 all I'm saying. We don't have one for Spend, 00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:12.559 but we have one for Edmund. Well, as you know 00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:17.059 now from events of last month, it's not the coronation. 00:40:17.190 --> 00:40:21.269 It's the proclamation. Charles III is Charles 00:40:21.269 --> 00:40:25.289 III, but he hasn't yet been crowned, but he is 00:40:25.289 --> 00:40:30.570 still king. They follow on straight away. Ethelred 00:40:30.570 --> 00:40:34.809 himself was not crowned for a year after he became 00:40:34.809 --> 00:40:38.510 king. Yes, exactly. It's the proclamation rather 00:40:38.510 --> 00:40:41.929 than the coronation that makes the king. Emma's 00:40:41.929 --> 00:40:46.130 two sons were far too young. They were still 00:40:46.130 --> 00:40:52.710 what? eight, ten, ten, eleven, something like 00:40:52.710 --> 00:40:55.409 that, so far too young. Was he still in Normandy? 00:40:55.710 --> 00:40:57.449 I know Emma came back with Etherelle, but did 00:40:57.449 --> 00:41:00.570 she not leave the sons back in Normandy? Oh, 00:41:01.130 --> 00:41:04.789 Edward definitely was in England. Yes. He came 00:41:04.789 --> 00:41:07.869 back first. Yes. He came back as his father's 00:41:07.869 --> 00:41:11.210 emissary. Yes. He said, Dad's coming. Yes. You 00:41:11.210 --> 00:41:13.269 invited him back. Yes, Dad's coming. Well, I 00:41:13.269 --> 00:41:16.539 think really he was a hostage. Yes. you know, 00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:20.360 to make sure that Ethelred didn't turn on the 00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:26.480 nobles who had gathered to crown Sven. So Edward 00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:29.760 was certainly there, and probably Alfred, I would 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:32.579 think. Maybe not the daughter. They did have 00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:34.679 a daughter. Yes, thank you for pointing that 00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:37.320 out, Pat. I'm ashamed to say I forgot. Yeah, 00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:39.400 no one mentions the daughter, but they had a 00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:41.360 daughter. Although she may have been married 00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:45.280 by that point or in the household of her husband. 00:41:45.820 --> 00:41:48.340 She was only like 10 years old at that point. 00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:51.920 Yeah but in those days sometimes they would have 00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:53.900 been left in the household of their future husbands 00:41:53.900 --> 00:41:57.219 once they were betrothed so she may have been 00:41:57.219 --> 00:41:59.599 there but she may not or she may have been at 00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:04.119 Wilton being educated you know it's um sorry 00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:08.840 um noble women in those days were put into nunneries 00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:11.599 when they were children to have their education. 00:42:11.780 --> 00:42:13.800 Especially in a time of unrest like this it's 00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:16.800 possible that she was sent somewhere like Wilton 00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:20.840 Abbey so that she was out of the way being taught 00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:25.480 to be a lady without having to face the unrest 00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.579 of the country. Because also, I mean, Emma was 00:42:28.579 --> 00:42:31.300 quite young when she married Ethelred. Yes, she 00:42:31.300 --> 00:42:34.329 was only a teenager. Yes. I mean, we don't quite 00:42:34.329 --> 00:42:36.909 know how young, but she could have been 12 or 00:42:36.909 --> 00:42:40.869 13. She could have been 15 -ish. And he was at 00:42:40.869 --> 00:42:43.309 least 20 years, her elder, wasn't he? At least 00:42:43.309 --> 00:42:46.429 20 years. Well, anyway, her marriage, Gagipu's 00:42:46.429 --> 00:42:49.329 marriage was not arranged by her father. It was 00:42:49.329 --> 00:42:53.079 arranged by the Duke of Normandy. Either Richard 00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:58.480 II or his son, one of his sons. So my guess is 00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:00.820 she was probably still in Normandy because why 00:43:00.820 --> 00:43:02.559 would you bring a daughter back when you're taking 00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:05.960 an army to go? Yes, I think we're talking about 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:10.820 that. Edmund Dyneside was basically the only 00:43:10.820 --> 00:43:15.440 one who could get an army together against minute. 00:43:16.699 --> 00:43:19.440 It's also worth remembering Edmund himself, he 00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:26.019 was only 21, 22, he wasn't an old man. No, neither 00:43:26.019 --> 00:43:28.579 was Knut. They were both probably about the same 00:43:28.579 --> 00:43:31.219 age. Yeah, that's what gets me about Vikings 00:43:31.219 --> 00:43:34.260 Valhalla. I'm watching that and Knut keeps calling 00:43:34.260 --> 00:43:37.599 Edmund a young man or a child and it's like they're 00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:41.820 the same age! I'm going to say this for the viewers, 00:43:42.460 --> 00:43:45.179 if you've seen Vikings Valhalla take it with 00:43:45.179 --> 00:43:49.800 a huge skip heap of salt. They have taken two 00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:53.059 very different centuries and murdered them. There 00:43:53.059 --> 00:43:55.079 were characters in there, yes there's Simon, 00:43:55.219 --> 00:43:58.480 yes there's Alfred, but Canute, he was, no he 00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:00.880 was, well yes Canute was there, but kind of like, 00:44:01.219 --> 00:44:03.400 oh who was the, Harold, Harold who will soon 00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:07.880 be Harold Hardrada, or Harold Sigurdsson as he's 00:44:07.880 --> 00:44:12.309 known, he was an apple in someone's eye at that 00:44:12.309 --> 00:44:22.210 point. Yes, yes, they've really twisted a spaghetti 00:44:22.210 --> 00:44:25.429 mess with history for entertainment's sake. I 00:44:25.429 --> 00:44:27.550 mean and only in part were emailing before this 00:44:27.550 --> 00:44:29.590 recording about the teaser trailer that released 00:44:29.590 --> 00:44:32.929 for season two of Some Vikings on a Beach. and 00:44:32.929 --> 00:44:34.969 then what could only come from a catapult on 00:44:34.969 --> 00:44:38.349 a ship at sea a huge fireball coming out and 00:44:38.349 --> 00:44:41.530 crashing like napalm onto the beach don't think 00:44:41.530 --> 00:44:45.110 so people don't think so even i don't think so 00:44:45.110 --> 00:44:47.650 but that's just entertainment they've obviously 00:44:47.650 --> 00:44:49.190 been watching game of thrones i thought we don't 00:44:49.190 --> 00:44:51.809 have dragons let's have catapults instead yes 00:44:51.809 --> 00:44:54.190 but anyway we're going to stick to the history 00:45:00.269 --> 00:45:06.909 Edmund Ironside fought against Canute but so 00:45:06.909 --> 00:45:13.210 they basically neither side sort of won so they 00:45:13.210 --> 00:45:17.829 decided to negotiate but we don't know why particularly 00:45:17.829 --> 00:45:22.769 do we? My theory actually is I think Edmund was 00:45:22.769 --> 00:45:28.510 wounded in that battle but I agree. He died shortly 00:45:28.510 --> 00:45:31.670 after, didn't he? You know, my impression is, 00:45:31.690 --> 00:45:33.989 I think Canute, you know, he knew he was dying, 00:45:34.130 --> 00:45:35.610 so Canute basically said, well, there's no more 00:45:35.610 --> 00:45:37.969 point in fighting because I'm going to be king 00:45:37.969 --> 00:45:44.110 fairly soon anyway. Well, I think the British 00:45:44.110 --> 00:45:46.730 nobles, the English nobles had a role here because 00:45:46.730 --> 00:45:49.710 they were exhausted. They'd been fighting for 00:45:49.710 --> 00:45:52.670 how many years? And they finally said, enough 00:45:52.670 --> 00:45:55.699 already. And Edric was, of course, playing both 00:45:55.699 --> 00:45:58.159 sides against each other. He was still there 00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:02.820 advising both of them. And I think the English 00:46:02.820 --> 00:46:06.440 people just were tired. They needed an end to 00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:08.639 this. They needed a respite, if nothing else. 00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:13.519 Because if Edmund had lived, don't you think 00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:16.340 that they would have gone to war again? Yes. 00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:20.139 Don't you think that that wouldn't have lasted? 00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:22.760 I mean, just try to imagine somebody living in 00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:25.960 London, which belonged to Canute. Well, what 00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:29.800 if they wanted to go south? There's a boundary 00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:32.320 there. That's a hard boundary now. The north 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:36.500 is Dane and the south is Anglo -Saxon. That was 00:46:36.500 --> 00:46:38.460 just crazy. They couldn't have lived that way. 00:46:38.980 --> 00:46:42.099 It wouldn't have held. Yeah, even the Dane law, 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.280 as long as it lasted Scandinavian culture eventually 00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:49.300 just filtered everywhere. Since the since the 00:46:49.300 --> 00:46:52.460 era of Alfred, we've become a Mongol, well we've 00:46:52.460 --> 00:46:54.739 been a Mongol nation for god knows how many eons 00:46:54.739 --> 00:46:56.920 and centuries because we've just had an influx 00:46:56.920 --> 00:46:58.960 being an island, you have people come over from 00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:03.760 both sides. So of course Canute and Edmund made 00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:06.139 the deal that they'd split the country and whoever 00:47:06.139 --> 00:47:08.739 died first then would get the rest. Edmund of 00:47:08.739 --> 00:47:12.820 course died first. so Canute then became the 00:47:12.820 --> 00:47:14.360 king of England and unfortunately they've made 00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:16.659 him the joker card, don't ask me why, but they 00:47:16.659 --> 00:47:20.139 have, which I think is rather sad. And of course 00:47:20.139 --> 00:47:22.900 they've put him in the sea because all nice people, 00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:25.219 modern people know about Canute, if they have 00:47:25.219 --> 00:47:27.619 any inkling about him, is that he was the one 00:47:27.619 --> 00:47:29.579 Christian king who tried to turn back the tide. 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:33.380 He was so much more than a king trying to turn 00:47:33.380 --> 00:47:34.659 back the tide. Yes, he was a Christian. He didn't 00:47:34.659 --> 00:47:37.199 try to turn back the tide. He tried to prove 00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:39.960 that he couldn't turn back the tide. And that 00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:42.760 story is a total fable to begin with. It doesn't 00:47:42.760 --> 00:47:46.039 show up for a couple hundred years. So yeah, 00:47:46.139 --> 00:47:49.360 it was totally made up. But he was our first 00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:52.579 Viking Christian king. And I think so many people 00:47:52.579 --> 00:47:55.119 don't know that. We know the Vikings invaded 00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:58.260 England an awful lot. But we did actually have 00:47:58.260 --> 00:48:01.400 a Viking on the throne. And Emma herself had 00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:04.320 her Nordic roots through her own family in Normandy. 00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:07.860 And of course, Emma gets another opportunity 00:48:07.860 --> 00:48:10.900 at this point, doesn't she ladies? And no one 00:48:10.900 --> 00:48:13.500 really knows whether it's Knut who asked her 00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:18.340 or whether she asked him. She had a lot of familiarity 00:48:18.340 --> 00:48:21.320 with the Nobles and could help him steer them 00:48:21.320 --> 00:48:24.150 better. But eventually they decided, you know 00:48:24.150 --> 00:48:26.469 what, let's look up. Let's become the epic power 00:48:26.469 --> 00:48:28.909 couple that I absolutely loved them and admired 00:48:28.909 --> 00:48:32.289 them to be for. And so we have Queen Emma again, 00:48:32.329 --> 00:48:35.969 but to a different king. But she does get the 00:48:35.969 --> 00:48:38.610 agreement that her sons with Canute will then 00:48:38.610 --> 00:48:41.849 precede her previous sons with Ethelred. So whatever 00:48:41.849 --> 00:48:44.469 sons she has with Canute will take over as heirs, 00:48:44.469 --> 00:48:48.489 not to Edward and Alfred, which, of course, understandably 00:48:48.489 --> 00:48:52.599 pissed off Edward, which I can totally get. And 00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:55.840 because he was sent back into exile, him and 00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:58.980 Alfred went back to Normandy, and he stayed there 00:48:58.980 --> 00:49:05.880 for many, many years. Seventeen. Yes. And because 00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:09.340 he became more Norman, really, than the English, 00:49:09.719 --> 00:49:13.320 which then had that knock -on effect when you 00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:18.840 come up to 1066, of course. But yeah. Just one 00:49:18.840 --> 00:49:21.699 of the things that we don't know. Was it Emma's 00:49:21.699 --> 00:49:24.559 idea to marry Canute or his idea to marry her? 00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:27.559 I think politically though, it was a sensible 00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:30.519 idea on both parts. Exactly. That's the thing. 00:49:30.739 --> 00:49:34.119 For Canute, it was a symbol of the continuity 00:49:34.119 --> 00:49:39.420 of the English monarchy. Emma knew England. She'd 00:49:39.420 --> 00:49:42.659 been its queen for 16 years. So it made sense 00:49:42.659 --> 00:49:46.820 to Canute that he had her as an advisor. It made 00:49:46.820 --> 00:49:50.480 sense. to that he had her there as the symbol 00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:53.699 of continuity for England so that he was not 00:49:53.699 --> 00:49:58.039 so much the invader he was the invader but he 00:49:58.039 --> 00:50:00.559 could claim to you know well Emma's on my side 00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:02.820 so you like you guys need to be on my side as 00:50:02.820 --> 00:50:06.659 well and for her it was the chance to carry on 00:50:06.659 --> 00:50:12.360 being queen um security she was safe if she was 00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:16.300 his wife and you see all through Canute's reign 00:50:16.300 --> 00:50:20.000 she was trusted by him and she was trusted to 00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.179 hold the money. Yeah we had an era of peace with 00:50:24.179 --> 00:50:26.719 Canute and a peace that the people of England 00:50:26.719 --> 00:50:30.820 hadn't had under Ethelred or Edmund before and 00:50:30.820 --> 00:50:33.360 they were remarkably successful I like to think 00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:37.260 as a ruling couple. Had Canute not died who knows 00:50:37.260 --> 00:50:41.559 what else could have happened but there was also 00:50:41.559 --> 00:50:44.400 unfortunately one other little tiny little fly 00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.179 yes we've forgotten about her haven't we sorry 00:50:47.179 --> 00:50:49.739 i do apologize to el gifu wherever you are of 00:50:49.739 --> 00:50:53.579 northampton um yes canute supposedly a bit like 00:50:53.579 --> 00:50:56.579 ethyl red had a previous wife or at least a previous 00:50:56.579 --> 00:50:59.079 commitment to a particular woman still had a 00:50:59.079 --> 00:51:04.320 wife still had a wife um el gifu or but almost 00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:08.000 always known as el gifu of northampton am i correct 00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:10.800 because you didn't really have a surname or a 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:14.239 place but she came from like the the rich Midland 00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:18.099 lords so she had a lot of wealth kind of. In 00:51:18.099 --> 00:51:20.320 those days you didn't really have surnames so 00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:23.219 location was like Ethelred's first wife who's 00:51:23.219 --> 00:51:28.079 known as Elfgiffy of York so location seems to 00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:30.840 be you're either known by your location or your 00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:35.360 father. I've been calling Emma Emma of Normandy 00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:39.349 for however long this has been going on. Yes, 00:51:39.670 --> 00:51:42.210 and yet she was Queen of England, so she should 00:51:42.210 --> 00:51:44.469 bring the Emma of England, shouldn't she? Or 00:51:44.469 --> 00:51:46.610 actually Elfgifu of England, because when she 00:51:46.610 --> 00:51:49.670 married Ethelred, her name was changed to Elfgifu. 00:51:50.010 --> 00:51:51.750 And I was just going to say that, unfortunately 00:51:51.750 --> 00:51:56.210 they've all got the same name. Is it right because 00:51:56.210 --> 00:51:58.889 some of the Saxons couldn't quite pronounce Emma, 00:51:59.090 --> 00:52:01.809 however Emma was in Norman? That's what I've 00:52:01.809 --> 00:52:06.349 read somewhere, and it always... No. Elkiphew 00:52:06.349 --> 00:52:09.329 was a saint and she was a royal saint and so 00:52:09.329 --> 00:52:13.789 it was important that Emma be perceived as part 00:52:13.789 --> 00:52:18.949 of that royal group, Anglo -Saxon group. And 00:52:18.949 --> 00:52:22.030 this was not unusual at all. There were other 00:52:22.030 --> 00:52:25.429 women who married into another culture. They 00:52:25.429 --> 00:52:29.050 would take the name of that culture. You see 00:52:29.050 --> 00:52:32.469 it even later. You see Edith of Scotland marrying 00:52:32.469 --> 00:52:35.949 Henry I and becoming Queen Matilda of Scotland. 00:52:36.969 --> 00:52:41.550 And even the Empress Matilda, before she married 00:52:41.550 --> 00:52:45.949 she was, was it Adelaide? She wasn't called Matilda 00:52:45.949 --> 00:52:48.789 when she was born, she had another name and then 00:52:48.789 --> 00:52:51.170 when she married she was made Matilda because 00:52:51.170 --> 00:52:54.929 it was more acceptable in Germany to be a Matilda. 00:52:55.329 --> 00:52:58.269 And actually that hasn't changed even now actually 00:52:58.269 --> 00:53:01.960 because Queen Elizabeth II's father his real 00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:08.179 name was Albert because once he became king he 00:53:08.179 --> 00:53:12.039 chose to be known as George because there was 00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:15.619 speculation about whether Charles would keep 00:53:15.619 --> 00:53:18.480 the name Charles or change it but because he 00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:22.460 has kept it and he is now King Charles. He did 00:53:22.460 --> 00:53:25.760 say, I remember the report a good few years ago 00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:28.679 probably when he and Camilla got married, he 00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:32.809 said he was going to be King George. and so that's 00:53:32.809 --> 00:53:36.429 why when Elizabeth died they were talking about 00:53:36.429 --> 00:53:38.329 they didn't know what his regnal name was going 00:53:38.329 --> 00:53:41.389 to be because he had said previously that he 00:53:41.389 --> 00:53:43.610 wanted to be George and then suddenly it was 00:53:43.610 --> 00:53:45.650 notice King Charles III and I thought good on 00:53:45.650 --> 00:53:49.750 you. With Charles there's always that thing that 00:53:49.750 --> 00:53:51.789 because the first one got his head chopped off 00:53:51.789 --> 00:53:55.820 he's seen as an unlucky name. It's like why you've 00:53:55.820 --> 00:53:58.519 got no King John's anymore? There's never been 00:53:58.519 --> 00:54:01.340 a John the Second, either in England or Scotland. 00:54:01.980 --> 00:54:04.340 The one in Scotland fared even worse than the 00:54:04.340 --> 00:54:09.659 one in England. It just shows how they do change 00:54:09.659 --> 00:54:12.579 names. While we're talking about coronations, 00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:15.360 before we get to Elfifu, I want to talk about 00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:21.800 Emma's coronation, her second coronation. written 00:54:21.800 --> 00:54:25.340 quite a bit about that and about the ordination 00:54:25.340 --> 00:54:28.079 ceremony. And she thinks it was changed at the 00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:32.280 time that Emma was crowned her second coronation. 00:54:32.539 --> 00:54:37.099 And she talks about how this was the first time 00:54:37.099 --> 00:54:41.059 that the ordination ceremony affirmed queenly 00:54:41.059 --> 00:54:46.639 power openly. And she was anointed as regal, 00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:51.340 paralleling the king. in some, not all of his 00:54:51.340 --> 00:54:55.960 functions, but it really gave her that idea of 00:54:55.960 --> 00:54:59.920 being a peace weaver, of being a woman of power, 00:55:00.340 --> 00:55:03.000 much more than had ever happened before, and 00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:05.659 certainly more than is probably going to happen 00:55:05.659 --> 00:55:09.340 next year when Camilla is crowned queen, because 00:55:09.340 --> 00:55:11.199 the queen has become more of a, and the king 00:55:11.199 --> 00:55:13.300 too, has become more of a figurehead, but back 00:55:13.300 --> 00:55:16.679 in the 11th century they had much more power 00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:19.849 and as I don't know, one of us pointed out, Emma 00:55:19.849 --> 00:55:26.809 held the treasury. So this was significant. She 00:55:26.809 --> 00:55:30.630 is a share of rule. Emma was a share of rule 00:55:30.630 --> 00:55:32.690 at that time. Just to correct you on something 00:55:32.690 --> 00:55:37.329 though, Camilla is Queen Consul. She won't be. 00:55:37.500 --> 00:55:40.480 crowned as Queen, there is actually a difference. 00:55:41.239 --> 00:55:43.019 Right, and that word was not used with Emma. 00:55:46.619 --> 00:55:50.860 I do wonder if they'll change that by next year, 00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:52.960 to be honest, because it hasn't been used with 00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:55.019 any other Queen consort. They've never named 00:55:55.019 --> 00:55:57.199 them as Queen consort before. It's always been, 00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:00.199 you know, George V and Queen Mary, George VI 00:56:00.199 --> 00:56:02.760 and Queen Elizabeth. So I do wonder if that will 00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:05.500 actually change. Just wait and see, won't we? 00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:08.519 But at the moment she's only is only queen consort. 00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:11.360 I mean to be honest once she's crowned she will 00:56:11.360 --> 00:56:14.639 be a queen so they won't that is the coronation 00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:17.980 ceremony. She'll be queen brackets consort. Yeah 00:56:17.980 --> 00:56:23.199 but once she's crowned queen Well, I thought 00:56:23.199 --> 00:56:26.760 we'd have to wait and see. It will be interesting 00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:28.480 to see. It's one of the things I keep watching. 00:56:28.579 --> 00:56:30.679 I'm waiting for them to drop the consort bit. 00:56:30.699 --> 00:56:32.340 It'll be really interesting, you know, another 00:56:32.340 --> 00:56:34.719 100 years' time when people are looking back 00:56:34.719 --> 00:56:37.300 on, you know, history, you know. So, why did 00:56:37.300 --> 00:56:40.360 it happen like this? Yeah, it's setting a precedent 00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:43.099 because then you've got William and Catherine, 00:56:43.099 --> 00:56:46.300 and if Camilla's only Queen Consort and then 00:56:46.300 --> 00:56:48.960 there's, you know, Queen Consort Camilla, then 00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:53.710 how will they do it with Catherine? The only 00:56:53.710 --> 00:56:55.989 thing here, and I know we are digressing from 00:56:55.989 --> 00:56:58.369 Emma, but the only difference here is the fact 00:56:58.369 --> 00:57:03.429 that Camilla was divorced. Yeah. Which church 00:57:03.429 --> 00:57:07.269 is slightly different, whereas Catherine wasn't 00:57:07.269 --> 00:57:10.949 divorced. Yeah. So, you know, that might have 00:57:10.949 --> 00:57:15.389 something, you know, adding to the reason why. 00:57:16.280 --> 00:57:19.599 But, again, we'll have to wait and see. Interesting 00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:26.159 to watch. Yes. We had, Knut wasn't divorced, 00:57:26.460 --> 00:57:32.079 he had two wives at the same time. Now, can you 00:57:32.079 --> 00:57:36.579 explain to me why, or how about Knut became connected, 00:57:37.019 --> 00:57:38.579 very intimately, of course, with L. Giffey of 00:57:38.579 --> 00:57:41.460 Northampton, because they did have children together. 00:57:41.539 --> 00:57:44.739 Well, they might have had two. It's a funny one 00:57:44.739 --> 00:57:48.059 with Elf Gifu in Northampton because she was 00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:51.079 his Danish wife. There's this idea that you could 00:57:51.079 --> 00:57:53.820 have a hand fasting and become a wife rather 00:57:53.820 --> 00:57:56.960 than a Christian marriage. But also the Anglo 00:57:56.960 --> 00:58:04.820 -Saxon Chronicle particularly cast doubt on Elf 00:58:04.820 --> 00:58:09.880 Gifu giving canoe either one son or both sons. 00:58:10.019 --> 00:58:13.710 And even the suggestions that Harold, particularly, 00:58:14.090 --> 00:58:17.469 was the son of a priest and possibly not even 00:58:17.469 --> 00:58:21.889 Elf Gifu's son. It's hilarious because he's actually 00:58:21.889 --> 00:58:23.929 in the Anglo -Saxon Chronicle that they, you 00:58:23.929 --> 00:58:27.349 know, that men doubt that Harold is Canute's 00:58:27.349 --> 00:58:29.690 son, but Canute doesn't seem to have doubted 00:58:29.690 --> 00:58:35.329 it. So I think it's just trying to disparage 00:58:35.329 --> 00:58:38.170 her, you know, she's named as a concubine rather 00:58:38.170 --> 00:58:41.849 than a wife. suggesting that she's his mistress 00:58:41.849 --> 00:58:46.230 and that possibly there was never any marital 00:58:46.230 --> 00:58:50.469 ceremony of any kind. But Canoe actually gave 00:58:50.469 --> 00:58:54.849 both the sons of El Cthulhu, Swain and Harold 00:58:54.849 --> 00:59:00.030 duties. Even in his lifetime, Swain was sent 00:59:00.030 --> 00:59:03.530 over to Norway to rule Norway for Canoe. He didn't 00:59:03.530 --> 00:59:08.130 do a great job and his mother went with him to 00:59:08.130 --> 00:59:12.849 help. or Hinder. They were literally driven out 00:59:12.849 --> 00:59:22.449 of Norway. But then even Arthur Canute was sent 00:59:22.449 --> 00:59:27.510 to Denmark to be Viceroy of Denmark during Canute's 00:59:27.510 --> 00:59:29.949 reign and that's where he was when Canute died 00:59:29.949 --> 00:59:35.030 and Harold was in England. We don't know where 00:59:35.030 --> 00:59:39.000 Harold was really. It seems likely that he was 00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:41.440 in England because he was the one to seize the 00:59:41.440 --> 00:59:45.280 reins. I've always assumed that he was somewhere 00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:48.960 in the north of England. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So 00:59:48.960 --> 00:59:51.539 just rewind a bit, was Canute married to Elgifry 00:59:51.539 --> 00:59:55.420 of Northampton during like the years his father 00:59:55.420 --> 00:59:58.420 was trying to conquer England? Was that a move 00:59:58.420 --> 01:00:00.900 on his father's part in order to try and firm 01:00:00.900 --> 01:00:02.980 up a base so when he did become king then he 01:00:02.980 --> 01:00:05.619 didn't have rights to the north? Is that a Correct. 01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:08.460 Well, it was an alliance with the Northern Lords. 01:00:08.539 --> 01:00:12.320 Her family was quite, quite powerful. So the 01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:15.380 belief is that in 1013, because we know that 01:00:15.380 --> 01:00:18.639 Canute was in England with his father, that that 01:00:18.639 --> 01:00:22.579 was when that alliance was formed. And I think 01:00:22.579 --> 01:00:26.219 Ethelred killed her brothers or something. And 01:00:26.219 --> 01:00:30.119 this becomes really important for later on, because 01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:36.269 he has, back in 1006, her father, and had been 01:00:36.269 --> 01:00:39.849 killed by Ethelred or executed and her brothers 01:00:39.849 --> 01:00:42.550 had been blinded. Yeah. And we'll come back. 01:00:42.590 --> 01:00:44.489 I want to hold that thought and come back to 01:00:44.489 --> 01:00:46.730 that later because I think that's important for 01:00:46.730 --> 01:00:51.289 much later after Knud is dead. But I kind of 01:00:51.289 --> 01:00:55.449 lost my train of thought here. Elf Gifu, because 01:00:55.449 --> 01:00:58.940 that family group was probably pretty pissed 01:00:58.940 --> 01:01:01.019 off at Ethelred because of what had happened 01:01:01.019 --> 01:01:04.559 to Elf Gifu's father and brothers. They bound 01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:07.599 themselves to Knute through this marriage with 01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:16.369 Elf Gifu. But was it a... And later on, when 01:01:16.369 --> 01:01:19.329 her son Harold tries to claim the throne, and 01:01:19.329 --> 01:01:21.610 we have the Anglo -Saxon Chronicle saying, well, 01:01:21.650 --> 01:01:24.670 no one is really sure if Harold was Canute's 01:01:24.670 --> 01:01:27.510 son. And everyone seems to blame Emma for that 01:01:27.510 --> 01:01:30.829 story. I don't think it was Emma. I think it 01:01:30.829 --> 01:01:33.670 was the priests, the priests who saw that as 01:01:33.670 --> 01:01:37.289 not a Christian marriage and didn't want a son 01:01:37.289 --> 01:01:40.289 who had not been born in a Christian marriage 01:01:40.289 --> 01:01:42.989 ruling the kingdom. I think it was the I think 01:01:42.989 --> 01:01:46.929 it was the church that started that little. Although 01:01:46.929 --> 01:01:49.170 to be fair, Emma did forge quite a number of 01:01:49.170 --> 01:01:52.429 good alliances with church men and churches because 01:01:52.429 --> 01:01:54.610 a lot of charters don't they support her kind 01:01:54.610 --> 01:01:57.690 of like gifting land or money or donations. I 01:01:57.690 --> 01:02:00.230 mean, I personally think you'll be able to correct 01:02:00.230 --> 01:02:01.969 on this lady. What's the name of the church that's 01:02:01.969 --> 01:02:04.539 got that beautiful prayer book? of that book 01:02:04.539 --> 01:02:06.260 of souls that I've got that's got that lovely 01:02:06.260 --> 01:02:08.940 illustration of Canute and Emma and their hands 01:02:08.940 --> 01:02:12.960 touching a Bible. Why did I not think of Winchester? 01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:16.039 Winchester is very special. Hopefully dear viewers 01:02:16.039 --> 01:02:17.639 after this you will go and make a pilgrimage 01:02:17.639 --> 01:02:20.179 to Winchester and go find one of the boxes with 01:02:20.179 --> 01:02:22.539 many bones in if it's back on display. They were 01:02:22.539 --> 01:02:25.280 studying it for a number of years because there 01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:28.139 is a box in there that's got both half of Canute's 01:02:28.139 --> 01:02:31.630 and Emma's bones in. supposedly there was a bit 01:02:31.630 --> 01:02:34.369 of a mix -up during what was it the civil war 01:02:34.369 --> 01:02:37.489 the civil war where rioters went into the church 01:02:37.489 --> 01:02:39.710 scattered the bones everywhere out of the caskets 01:02:39.710 --> 01:02:42.309 and some poor person tried to gather them all 01:02:42.309 --> 01:02:44.329 up but probably got them all mixed up so it'll 01:02:44.329 --> 01:02:45.650 be interesting to know if they could work out 01:02:45.650 --> 01:02:47.550 whose bone was who and actually form a complete 01:02:47.550 --> 01:02:49.469 skeleton. I think they've worked out Emma because 01:02:49.469 --> 01:02:52.170 as far as they know she's the only woman there 01:02:52.170 --> 01:02:54.570 you know they've got Emma's skin. Interesting. 01:02:55.090 --> 01:02:58.610 So they'll be able to figure out Arthur Canute's 01:02:58.610 --> 01:03:01.159 if they've got Emma's and canoes, they can figure 01:03:01.159 --> 01:03:04.659 out genetically that harthacanute would be connected 01:03:04.659 --> 01:03:07.780 to those two. So to have those three skeletons 01:03:07.780 --> 01:03:11.500 on display would be a dream. That would be amazing. 01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:20.159 Let's get back to the 11th century. Yes, backtrack. 01:03:20.340 --> 01:03:23.199 So of course, there was El Gifu of Northampton 01:03:23.199 --> 01:03:28.250 in the background with her own I guess it would 01:03:28.250 --> 01:03:31.250 be fair to say that she herself, a bit like Edward's, 01:03:31.409 --> 01:03:33.389 Edward Emma's son, being a bit pissed off about 01:03:33.389 --> 01:03:36.110 this new marriage, this new king and queen on 01:03:36.110 --> 01:03:37.989 the throne, and she's wondering, well what am 01:03:37.989 --> 01:03:40.389 I doing, what have I been doing all these years, 01:03:40.530 --> 01:03:44.090 can you? Because she does, she's portrayed at 01:03:44.090 --> 01:03:45.869 least in your books, both Patricia and Helen, 01:03:45.969 --> 01:03:49.349 kind of like as, kind of like the, how to come 01:03:49.349 --> 01:03:52.199 up, this the key manipulator the other woman 01:03:52.199 --> 01:03:55.420 she she has she has her own ways of manipulating 01:03:55.420 --> 01:03:57.900 men to get what she wants and pulling on the 01:03:57.900 --> 01:04:00.699 strings in a bit more of a kind of like almost 01:04:00.699 --> 01:04:04.139 like a sassy way compared to emma who often just 01:04:04.139 --> 01:04:06.139 go through the church and is kind of about she's 01:04:06.139 --> 01:04:10.400 always depicted as being more correct in her 01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:12.340 way of obtaining things. If you look at it from 01:04:12.340 --> 01:04:14.679 Elfifu's point of view, you can't blame her, 01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:18.420 can you? No, I agree, I don't blame her. Somebody 01:04:18.420 --> 01:04:21.199 with more land and power is like, all right, 01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:24.619 yeah, you've given me all you can, now I'm off 01:04:24.619 --> 01:04:26.659 to Emma, but I'll keep you in the background 01:04:26.659 --> 01:04:29.980 just in case. You do also have to put this into 01:04:29.980 --> 01:04:35.079 context of that was accepted then. I mean, she 01:04:35.079 --> 01:04:39.760 wasn't ever going to be queen. And you also have 01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:42.840 to remember, it wasn't the only, can you, it 01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:45.019 wasn't doing something that was totally unique. 01:04:45.539 --> 01:04:48.820 When you look at, in 1066, you look at three 01:04:48.820 --> 01:04:54.139 of the protagonists, William, Harold and Harold 01:04:54.139 --> 01:04:57.019 Hardrada. And out of those three, only William 01:04:57.019 --> 01:05:00.969 was married to one woman. Harold II had two women, 01:05:01.250 --> 01:05:03.889 and Harold Hardrider had two women. I was just 01:05:03.889 --> 01:05:08.369 going to say this, up until 1066, Harold Godwinson 01:05:08.369 --> 01:05:13.269 had his common -law wife, who he now commonly 01:05:13.269 --> 01:05:16.309 called Edith Swannock, when he was Crown King, 01:05:16.510 --> 01:05:20.769 he had to put her aside to take another lady 01:05:20.769 --> 01:05:24.429 to become Crown Queen. So this was, you know, 01:05:24.469 --> 01:05:27.860 I mean, it was almost the norm for for Saxon 01:05:27.860 --> 01:05:33.000 England. She must have known this, it didn't 01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:38.780 come as a surprise in that sense, but I reckon 01:05:38.780 --> 01:05:41.500 she was all out for, okay, I know I'm not going 01:05:41.500 --> 01:05:44.619 to be Queen, but I should do my damnedest to 01:05:44.619 --> 01:05:48.500 make sure that my son becomes King. I think that's 01:05:48.500 --> 01:05:55.880 where the differences lie. When Canute had died, 01:05:56.400 --> 01:06:02.980 Heather Canoe, Emma's son, was in Denmark, and 01:06:02.980 --> 01:06:06.599 I'm pretty certain that, you know, Alf Gifford's 01:06:06.599 --> 01:06:09.980 son was here in England, so because he, you know, 01:06:09.980 --> 01:06:12.340 I mean, he could just walk in and take the crown. 01:06:12.699 --> 01:06:18.739 He was here. Give me the crown. And you have 01:06:18.739 --> 01:06:22.199 this mental image. He stole the treasure from 01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:24.440 Emma. He went down and took it. what he could 01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:27.760 get. But the Witton was trying to negotiate between 01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:29.719 the two of them. Let's face it, they were half 01:06:29.719 --> 01:06:33.380 brothers, right? They were half brothers. That 01:06:33.380 --> 01:06:37.019 is what always strikes me is the relationships 01:06:37.019 --> 01:06:39.599 between these men. And the thing that history 01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:43.099 never gives us is that interpersonal relationship 01:06:43.099 --> 01:06:47.960 among the women. Maybe Elf Gifu accepted the 01:06:47.960 --> 01:06:50.119 fact that she was never going to be queen. I 01:06:50.119 --> 01:06:51.880 don't think Emma ever accepted the fact that 01:06:51.880 --> 01:06:57.110 Elf Gifu... existed up there in the north. And 01:06:57.110 --> 01:07:00.449 yet I don't think Elkefi was ever at court in 01:07:00.449 --> 01:07:03.590 Winchester or London. I think she was kept well 01:07:03.590 --> 01:07:06.769 out of the way. Knut was wise to keep his women 01:07:06.769 --> 01:07:11.170 separated. And probably was why she went to Norway 01:07:11.170 --> 01:07:16.369 in 1029, get her out of the country. And she 01:07:16.369 --> 01:07:19.070 may not even have been in England. during the 01:07:19.070 --> 01:07:21.530 first part of his reign. I'm guessing she went 01:07:21.530 --> 01:07:24.929 to Denmark. She was the one who took Sven's body 01:07:24.929 --> 01:07:30.130 to Denmark. It would have been in like 10, I 01:07:30.130 --> 01:07:33.369 don't know, 1016, something like that, 1015. 01:07:33.829 --> 01:07:36.849 We don't know exactly when that happened. But 01:07:36.849 --> 01:07:39.210 I think she got out of the way and just waited 01:07:39.210 --> 01:07:42.369 to see what would happen when the dust settled. 01:07:43.949 --> 01:07:46.590 Sharon, could you possibly be able to clarify? 01:07:47.130 --> 01:07:50.230 Of course we know Swain had both two sons, Canute 01:07:50.230 --> 01:07:53.409 and Harold, who had left in Denmark. At what 01:07:53.409 --> 01:07:57.550 point did Harold Canute's older brother, is that 01:07:57.550 --> 01:08:00.050 right? Yeah, older brother died because then 01:08:00.050 --> 01:08:02.710 Canute obviously inherited the throne of Denmark 01:08:02.710 --> 01:08:09.110 as well. Yeah, it was about 1020, 1018 to 2020. 01:08:09.389 --> 01:08:11.449 Though it was not long after he became King of 01:08:11.449 --> 01:08:14.190 England. No, Canute had an expedition to Denmark 01:08:14.190 --> 01:08:20.039 to take control of it in 1020. so it was very 01:08:20.039 --> 01:08:23.819 soon after he got England that he also got Denmark 01:08:23.819 --> 01:08:30.020 and Norway so I mean he has he does have I don't 01:08:30.020 --> 01:08:32.359 know if it's an official title or what but he 01:08:32.359 --> 01:08:35.279 he's known as Canute the Great and you can understand 01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:39.510 why he had an empire He did. Before Victoria, 01:08:40.250 --> 01:08:42.289 someone else had done it and it was a Viking, 01:08:42.529 --> 01:08:46.090 I know him loosely, Viking, Christian King. Everyone 01:08:46.090 --> 01:08:48.909 should read about him. I'm just saying I have 01:08:48.909 --> 01:08:52.590 his book, Canute the Great, just saying. I've 01:08:52.590 --> 01:08:55.010 got three other biographies on him. He is such 01:08:55.010 --> 01:08:59.289 a fascinating guy. Before Hadrada, who was another 01:08:59.289 --> 01:09:02.689 epic Norseman who led an epic life before he 01:09:02.689 --> 01:09:05.029 became Hadrada, people should also go look at 01:09:05.029 --> 01:09:06.930 that. I'm just saying, don't go to Wikipedia, 01:09:07.170 --> 01:09:10.390 find the books, find the books. But yeah, he 01:09:10.390 --> 01:09:13.550 actually became a ruler of two kingdoms. Who 01:09:13.550 --> 01:09:16.890 would have thought? Who would have known? The 01:09:16.890 --> 01:09:18.470 people of England certainly didn't. They were 01:09:18.470 --> 01:09:20.329 like, oh my gosh, we've now got cousins. We've 01:09:20.329 --> 01:09:22.869 got like kind of like cousins in royalty over 01:09:22.869 --> 01:09:25.090 aboard. Well also, when you look at it, he's 01:09:25.090 --> 01:09:28.550 ruling these three kingdoms. When you look at 01:09:28.550 --> 01:09:30.989 the way England had to be split up into four 01:09:30.989 --> 01:09:35.930 parts to rule it sensibly, you're over the sea, 01:09:36.069 --> 01:09:38.229 you've got Denmark and Norway, you can understand 01:09:38.229 --> 01:09:41.210 why he sent one son to Norway with his mother 01:09:41.210 --> 01:09:44.630 to help him, another one to Denmark to rule there, 01:09:44.829 --> 01:09:48.250 to have bigger heads there that the barons of 01:09:48.250 --> 01:09:52.619 those countries could look to. and you know to 01:09:52.619 --> 01:09:55.500 keep them in line. Unfortunately Swain and Elfgifu 01:09:55.500 --> 01:10:00.300 didn't manage that in Norway but you can understand 01:10:00.300 --> 01:10:03.340 why with the communications the way they were 01:10:03.340 --> 01:10:05.699 in those days you know it would take it could 01:10:05.699 --> 01:10:09.140 take weeks to get to Denmark or Norway depending 01:10:09.140 --> 01:10:12.619 on which way the winds were blowing and how many 01:10:12.619 --> 01:10:16.739 oarsmen you had. One thing about Cnut is He was 01:10:16.739 --> 01:10:19.380 recognized as a real mover and shaker by the 01:10:19.380 --> 01:10:23.159 European royalties. He went to Rome. He was there. 01:10:23.739 --> 01:10:30.359 He met the Pope. He was an actor in all those. 01:10:30.699 --> 01:10:34.720 His daughter by Emma would marry the son of the 01:10:34.720 --> 01:10:37.520 Holy Roman Emperor. He negotiated that marriage 01:10:37.520 --> 01:10:40.500 while he was over in Rome. So, you know, and 01:10:40.500 --> 01:10:44.079 there was all that. stuff that happened in the 01:10:44.079 --> 01:10:47.039 German countries and stuff. It's quite a complicated 01:10:47.039 --> 01:10:50.180 political situation and he's deeply involved, 01:10:50.199 --> 01:10:53.359 he's involved up to his eyeballs in that sort 01:10:53.359 --> 01:10:56.779 of negotiating of what was going to happen. Yeah 01:10:56.779 --> 01:11:01.000 and it wasn't just on the international scale, 01:11:01.119 --> 01:11:06.189 when he went to Rome he actually helped the pilgrim 01:11:06.189 --> 01:11:09.149 roots apparently pilgrims were being robbed on 01:11:09.149 --> 01:11:12.229 the way to Rome and he actually made sure he 01:11:12.229 --> 01:11:17.869 put a stop to it so he was a very hands -on ruler 01:11:17.869 --> 01:11:21.930 he was he was I guess he was a king that really 01:11:21.930 --> 01:11:25.109 got on with doing the job and doing it beyond 01:11:25.109 --> 01:11:27.390 his shores for the good of his people because 01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:30.260 He wrote several letters, did he not, kind of 01:11:30.260 --> 01:11:32.659 like during his absence that would then be read 01:11:32.659 --> 01:11:34.899 through the bishops to the people in the church 01:11:34.899 --> 01:11:37.840 and I always find that wonderful. I know there 01:11:37.840 --> 01:11:42.880 was a British Library exhibition of loads of 01:11:42.880 --> 01:11:47.619 manuscripts and texts and they included a brief 01:11:47.619 --> 01:11:51.140 copy or small excerpt of the Emma Maconium, how 01:11:51.140 --> 01:11:52.579 to pronounce it right, I'm probably saying it 01:11:52.579 --> 01:11:56.229 all wrong. But they also had a little letter, 01:11:56.529 --> 01:11:59.010 like the original of his letter that he sent 01:11:59.010 --> 01:12:01.270 to Wolfstam Bishop of York. And you could put 01:12:01.270 --> 01:12:03.050 the headphones and you could hear it read both 01:12:03.050 --> 01:12:05.909 in modern English and then Anglo -Saxon. And 01:12:05.909 --> 01:12:07.729 even in the Anglo -Saxon, you could really feel 01:12:07.729 --> 01:12:09.710 it kind of like, yes, we're going to do this 01:12:09.710 --> 01:12:11.029 and it's all we're going to do this and we're 01:12:11.029 --> 01:12:12.829 going to do that. It's like the best patriotic 01:12:12.829 --> 01:12:16.689 speech you could ever heard. It was really moving. 01:12:16.930 --> 01:12:19.250 I felt so surreal having to go round the exhibition 01:12:19.250 --> 01:12:22.250 and marvel at all these great works by myself. 01:12:22.670 --> 01:12:25.010 but I'm that kind of nerd that will just follow 01:12:25.010 --> 01:12:27.569 my passion no matter where it goes. Hence why 01:12:27.569 --> 01:12:31.829 I'm here with all you lovely people. So yes, 01:12:32.029 --> 01:12:34.869 Canute was an epic king, just as Emma was an 01:12:34.869 --> 01:12:37.250 epic queen for doing what she was able to do, 01:12:37.590 --> 01:12:40.489 not just during Aethelred in that huge turbulent 01:12:40.489 --> 01:12:44.149 era, but also bringing great peace and stability 01:12:44.149 --> 01:12:46.170 to the people of Saxon England. And of course, 01:12:46.250 --> 01:12:48.329 sadly, as you might have guessed, dear viewers, 01:12:48.529 --> 01:12:51.710 Canute did die. What age did he die? Because 01:12:51.710 --> 01:12:54.189 I can never remember, was it quite young? He 01:12:54.189 --> 01:13:00.189 was 1035, so he would have been, he was 18 in 01:13:00.189 --> 01:13:08.470 1040, so 96, 40, around 40. Yeah, which is kind 01:13:08.470 --> 01:13:11.689 of like, what we think to our modern day lifestyles 01:13:11.689 --> 01:13:14.380 is quite young. quite young and yet he achieved 01:13:14.380 --> 01:13:16.359 so much. Well that's one of the things about 01:13:16.359 --> 01:13:19.060 the Danish kings in England, they didn't live 01:13:19.060 --> 01:13:24.439 to old age. Canute sons didn't live, you know, 01:13:24.640 --> 01:13:29.359 Harold only ruled for, what was it, six years 01:13:29.359 --> 01:13:31.359 or something like that, five years? I don't think 01:13:31.359 --> 01:13:34.340 it was that long. I think it was about two or 01:13:34.340 --> 01:13:41.449 three years. 1043, so 1036 until 1043. Well guess 01:13:41.449 --> 01:13:44.390 what ladies? Harold Herbert, as how I've known 01:13:44.390 --> 01:13:46.989 him from what books I've read, doesn't get a 01:13:46.989 --> 01:13:49.729 playing card, but half a canute does, which makes 01:13:49.729 --> 01:13:53.369 me happy. I've always loved his name because 01:13:53.369 --> 01:13:56.430 I always think who follows canute, oh half a 01:13:56.430 --> 01:13:58.350 canute. Half a canute, half a canute, that is, 01:13:58.390 --> 01:14:00.850 there you go viewers, a free pun to try out in 01:14:00.850 --> 01:14:03.750 audiences and see who gets it. Because there 01:14:03.750 --> 01:14:06.619 was a bit of a... Pat's already mentioned the 01:14:06.619 --> 01:14:10.260 Witton did have a bit of a family feud or civil 01:14:10.260 --> 01:14:12.720 liberties going on between who should ascend, 01:14:12.880 --> 01:14:15.899 whether it was Harold Harefoot of Olgifu or half 01:14:15.899 --> 01:14:18.439 the Canute of Queen Emma. Of course, we know 01:14:18.439 --> 01:14:20.239 who the women were supporting. They were supporting 01:14:20.239 --> 01:14:24.439 their own sons, as you would. And Harold Harefoot 01:14:24.439 --> 01:14:26.720 did take it for a while. But then how did Harold 01:14:26.720 --> 01:14:30.479 Harefoot lose it? Did he die? No, sensibly the 01:14:30.479 --> 01:14:33.899 Witton decided that Harold would have the north. 01:14:34.239 --> 01:14:38.119 Harthacnut would have Wessex and his mum would 01:14:38.119 --> 01:14:41.739 hold Wessex for him based at Winchester. So Emma 01:14:41.739 --> 01:14:45.239 kept Wessex. Harthacnut, Harold had the rest. 01:14:45.539 --> 01:14:49.260 Harthacnut was still in Denmark. So Emma had 01:14:49.260 --> 01:14:52.100 Wessex until Harthacnut came back. Unfortunately 01:14:52.100 --> 01:14:55.159 for Emma, Harthacnut wasn't in a hurry to come 01:14:55.159 --> 01:14:59.199 home. So Harold decided that he would make a 01:14:59.199 --> 01:15:01.920 play for the whole of England, and the witton 01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:04.220 decided that he might as well have it because 01:15:04.220 --> 01:15:06.880 half the canoe's not coming home, so the man 01:15:06.880 --> 01:15:10.659 actually in possession of the land gets the land. 01:15:13.539 --> 01:15:17.060 So he raids Winchester to get the treasury off 01:15:17.060 --> 01:15:21.680 Emma. Emma has to flee to Flanders. Don't say 01:15:21.680 --> 01:15:27.510 that too many times. and leaving Harold Airport 01:15:27.510 --> 01:15:30.710 with England. Unfortunately, like I said, the 01:15:30.710 --> 01:15:35.369 Harold, none of Canute's sons lived even as long 01:15:35.369 --> 01:15:39.590 as their father did. Harold by 1040, I think 01:15:39.590 --> 01:15:44.270 it was. Yep, 1040 is what my playing card says. 01:15:45.050 --> 01:15:50.069 Right. Harold died in 1040. Just as Emma and 01:15:50.069 --> 01:15:53.130 half the Canute were planning an invasion. Arthur 01:15:53.130 --> 01:15:56.770 Canute's navy was in Flanders ready to invade 01:15:56.770 --> 01:16:04.310 England to claim the throne. You have left out 01:16:04.310 --> 01:16:14.229 a little bit. Exactly, actually a lot. Emma did 01:16:14.229 --> 01:16:16.949 at this time I think was getting pretty desperate 01:16:16.949 --> 01:16:20.689 and of course don't forget she's got two other 01:16:20.689 --> 01:16:25.079 sons. Edward and Alfred who are in Normandy. 01:16:26.279 --> 01:16:28.039 And I think there came a point when she sort 01:16:28.039 --> 01:16:30.560 of realised that, you know, Harder Canute was 01:16:30.560 --> 01:16:36.060 quite happy with Denmark. And again, we don't 01:16:36.060 --> 01:16:39.600 quite know how this came about, but somehow or 01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:44.039 other, Edward and Alfred were encouraged to invade 01:16:44.039 --> 01:16:49.600 England. Unfortunately, Edward was too much like 01:16:49.600 --> 01:16:56.520 his dad. completely hopeless. I don't even know 01:16:56.520 --> 01:16:58.720 if he got to English shores or took one look 01:16:58.720 --> 01:17:00.979 and fled back home again, but of course his brother 01:17:00.979 --> 01:17:05.079 Alfred was actually captured by Harold Hereford 01:17:05.079 --> 01:17:08.800 and truly put to death. Yes, I forgot that bit. 01:17:08.840 --> 01:17:13.260 Thank you for bringing it up. Emma gets blamed 01:17:13.260 --> 01:17:18.779 for it. There is a suggestion that Emma wrote 01:17:18.779 --> 01:17:22.960 a letter to Alfred telling him to come to England 01:17:22.960 --> 01:17:27.979 and in the encomium Emma says that Harold Harefoot 01:17:27.979 --> 01:17:31.819 actually forged the letter and that Emma had 01:17:31.819 --> 01:17:34.859 nothing to do with it and but of course Emma 01:17:34.859 --> 01:17:41.659 still gets the blame. I'm tempted to agree with 01:17:41.659 --> 01:17:44.060 Emma and think that it was forged and I don't 01:17:44.060 --> 01:17:49.470 see why she would risk Alfred coming to England 01:17:49.470 --> 01:17:53.109 and being captured by Harold if she wasn't sure 01:17:53.109 --> 01:17:56.069 of the support and she definitely wasn't sure 01:17:56.069 --> 01:17:59.609 of him getting enough support. The thing is we 01:17:59.609 --> 01:18:03.449 do know that he came. Yeah, so I think it's more 01:18:03.449 --> 01:18:08.779 likely that Harold Harefoot engineered it. I 01:18:08.779 --> 01:18:13.359 think she was so politically savvy. I think she 01:18:13.359 --> 01:18:15.840 was quite aware that there wasn't the support 01:18:15.840 --> 01:18:19.180 for Applewood sons at that time. She really was 01:18:19.180 --> 01:18:24.880 dependent on Harthacnut to come. It was a Danish 01:18:24.880 --> 01:18:28.279 court at that time and everyone wanted a son 01:18:28.279 --> 01:18:31.000 of Canute on that throne. I think we're not giving 01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:34.439 poor Harthacnut enough credit. He was really 01:18:34.439 --> 01:18:37.979 unlucky in his... half -brothers because his 01:18:37.979 --> 01:18:40.720 half -brother Sven had been driven out of Norway 01:18:40.720 --> 01:18:44.060 and now Magnus of Norway was trying to take over 01:18:44.060 --> 01:18:48.340 Norway and was was attacking Denmark and so he 01:18:48.340 --> 01:18:51.359 was fighting him on that side and across the 01:18:51.359 --> 01:18:55.779 water Harold was taking his throne of England 01:18:55.779 --> 01:18:59.000 which was which was the Witten wanted Harthacnut 01:18:59.000 --> 01:19:03.159 to be their king and so that that decision that 01:19:03.159 --> 01:19:07.579 took place in England after the death of Canute 01:19:07.579 --> 01:19:14.260 was Harold Harefoot will rule for Harthacanute 01:19:14.260 --> 01:19:17.500 in the north and Emma and Godwin will rule for 01:19:17.500 --> 01:19:20.119 Harthacanute in the south until he can come over. 01:19:20.520 --> 01:19:24.880 And according to Emma, the bishop, I probably 01:19:24.880 --> 01:19:27.260 have the wrong name, but one of the bishops said, 01:19:27.460 --> 01:19:32.449 I'm not going to crown Harold until while Emma 01:19:32.449 --> 01:19:35.909 still has living sons. So she had the church 01:19:35.909 --> 01:19:39.710 on her side, even though eventually the nobles 01:19:39.710 --> 01:19:42.550 decided we can't have a divided kingdom anymore. 01:19:42.630 --> 01:19:46.310 We have to have one kingdom. And so they bowed 01:19:46.310 --> 01:19:50.090 to Harold and he took over. And I think it's 01:19:50.090 --> 01:19:52.810 also important. I want to switch now to when. 01:19:53.079 --> 01:19:56.000 Edward and Alfred come to England. I agree. I 01:19:56.000 --> 01:19:58.199 think Emma did not write that letter. I think 01:19:58.199 --> 01:20:00.979 it was written, and I see Alfifi's hands all 01:20:00.979 --> 01:20:05.119 over this. And because she was canny and she 01:20:05.119 --> 01:20:09.640 was throwing parties and bribing people to support 01:20:09.640 --> 01:20:12.180 her son. We know that from a letter that was 01:20:12.180 --> 01:20:16.520 sent by a priest to somebody over in Europe. 01:20:16.560 --> 01:20:22.539 We have that letter. But Once Alfred was captured 01:20:22.539 --> 01:20:27.140 and taken, it's really interesting. He was blinded. 01:20:27.399 --> 01:20:29.520 And we have to look back at what happened to 01:20:29.520 --> 01:20:32.640 Elf Diffuse brothers. They were blinded. This 01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:36.939 is payback. This is vengeance. I, you know, I'm 01:20:36.939 --> 01:20:38.739 blinded. The sins of the father haunting the 01:20:38.739 --> 01:20:42.520 sins of the son. Well, for Alfred to live a happy 01:20:42.520 --> 01:20:45.420 life in Normandy until that point. Well, and 01:20:45.420 --> 01:20:49.250 he was Ethelred's son. So you blinded my, Ethelred 01:20:49.250 --> 01:20:52.029 blinded my brothers, I'm gonna blind Ethelred's 01:20:52.029 --> 01:20:57.369 sons. And I really think that was a piece of 01:20:57.369 --> 01:20:59.449 what was happening there. Although it's true 01:20:59.449 --> 01:21:02.550 that one way to prevent somebody from claiming 01:21:02.550 --> 01:21:10.809 a throne is to blind them. That was done. Yeah, 01:21:10.809 --> 01:21:15.289 that happened more than once. So that brings 01:21:15.289 --> 01:21:18.489 that whole backstory back right to the front 01:21:18.489 --> 01:21:20.869 when we see that. The other thing I wanted to 01:21:20.869 --> 01:21:22.729 point out that I've never seen anyone point out, 01:21:22.729 --> 01:21:27.149 if you were a 25 year old, 30 year old young 01:21:27.149 --> 01:21:29.850 man living in Normandy, you've got a bunch of 01:21:29.850 --> 01:21:32.350 buddies around you, you've got arms, you've been 01:21:32.350 --> 01:21:35.310 trained to fight and you find out that the guy 01:21:35.310 --> 01:21:39.960 who's kept you from taking your inheritance for 01:21:39.960 --> 01:21:43.920 17 years is dead and mom is sitting over there 01:21:43.920 --> 01:21:47.000 with a treasury. What's going to prevent you 01:21:47.000 --> 01:21:51.220 from getting on a ship and seeing what you can 01:21:51.220 --> 01:21:54.380 do? They didn't need a letter from anybody to 01:21:54.380 --> 01:21:56.819 convince them to go over to England and see what 01:21:56.819 --> 01:22:00.539 they could get. And don't get that. I mean, they've 01:22:00.539 --> 01:22:03.619 been living in the Norman Colt. So, you know, 01:22:03.640 --> 01:22:06.739 they weren't just... idling their time in a little 01:22:06.739 --> 01:22:09.880 farmhouse somewhere. That's right and Edward 01:22:09.880 --> 01:22:12.819 saw himself as King of England. Yes. He had had 01:22:12.819 --> 01:22:16.159 since he was 12. And they must have built alliances 01:22:16.159 --> 01:22:19.819 because when Edward did come but went home again 01:22:19.819 --> 01:22:23.340 he had something like 30 ships. I mean he did 01:22:23.340 --> 01:22:25.560 have an army behind him even though he didn't 01:22:25.560 --> 01:22:29.979 use it and so you know they had people supporting 01:22:29.979 --> 01:22:33.630 them, people who thought enough to actually go 01:22:33.630 --> 01:22:37.550 with them to claim England. And you do think, 01:22:37.630 --> 01:22:40.149 you know, in 1066, William had the same. He had 01:22:40.149 --> 01:22:42.689 people there to claim England with him because 01:22:42.689 --> 01:22:45.569 you promised them land, promised them riches, 01:22:45.569 --> 01:22:49.670 and they'll come with you. Alfred had had had 01:22:49.670 --> 01:22:52.449 support as well. He came from Beloit, where his 01:22:52.449 --> 01:22:54.930 sister was married to the guy that was in charge 01:22:54.930 --> 01:22:58.050 of Beloit and that that whole area. So he had 01:22:58.050 --> 01:23:03.430 support from there. So Yeah, Emma had quite a 01:23:03.430 --> 01:23:05.989 nice family network going on, all spanning out. 01:23:06.189 --> 01:23:07.949 She could have conquered the world if she had 01:23:07.949 --> 01:23:09.810 enough sons. She would have sent them everywhere. 01:23:11.270 --> 01:23:13.090 But just being back to actually one other important 01:23:13.090 --> 01:23:17.010 point because I know Hattie pointed about how 01:23:17.010 --> 01:23:19.949 Canute almost inspired or at least rewarded loyalty. 01:23:20.529 --> 01:23:22.689 I would like to round off the wonderful ending 01:23:22.689 --> 01:23:25.529 of Edric's tree owner, everyone's favourite villain, 01:23:26.010 --> 01:23:29.520 because he did betray Ethelred and... Edmund 01:23:29.520 --> 01:23:33.399 a number of times and he did linger on a little 01:23:33.399 --> 01:23:36.199 bit when Canute and Emma came to power but I 01:23:36.199 --> 01:23:38.739 will always remember reading the particular passage 01:23:38.739 --> 01:23:41.779 in Queen Emma and the Vikings about how it described 01:23:41.779 --> 01:23:45.520 that Canute told him in basically a way kind 01:23:45.520 --> 01:23:48.359 of like you've been disloyal too many times I 01:23:48.359 --> 01:23:50.760 don't believe or trust you anymore and thus off 01:23:50.760 --> 01:23:53.619 with your head and I thought that was just But 01:23:53.619 --> 01:23:56.319 just beautiful poetic justice. And I like to 01:23:56.319 --> 01:23:58.520 think that Emma was there watching it all and 01:23:58.520 --> 01:24:01.500 just smiling and thinking, you finally got it. 01:24:01.819 --> 01:24:03.699 Because she probably would have been aware of 01:24:03.699 --> 01:24:06.119 all the ill advice he was filtering through to 01:24:06.119 --> 01:24:08.239 her first husband, Ethelred, at least, because 01:24:08.239 --> 01:24:10.000 she would have probably been counter arguing 01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:13.020 against it for what attempts she could make to 01:24:13.020 --> 01:24:17.100 persuade the mind of that particular king. We 01:24:17.100 --> 01:24:19.359 have to remember that Edric turned on Canute 01:24:19.359 --> 01:24:24.199 as well. part way through, you know, he went 01:24:24.199 --> 01:24:27.119 back to Edmund and Everyone was kind of saying 01:24:27.119 --> 01:24:29.319 Edmund. You're not gonna trust this guy. Are 01:24:29.319 --> 01:24:33.899 you? And and he did He must have either had he 01:24:33.899 --> 01:24:37.260 must have had the arms to justify people Wanted 01:24:37.260 --> 01:24:40.520 him to be there or and ever like a Loki like 01:24:40.520 --> 01:24:45.100 silver tongue of this way He did he was both. 01:24:45.260 --> 01:24:48.960 He's what smooth -tongued He was the worm tongue 01:24:48.960 --> 01:24:51.180 from Lord of the Rings. I'm just gonna say it 01:24:51.180 --> 01:24:57.229 that's basically. If you need men to fight against 01:24:57.229 --> 01:25:01.210 Knut, you'll take the men. Yeah, I mean, Ethelred 01:25:01.210 --> 01:25:04.449 hired Vikings, two fired Vikings. When it comes 01:25:04.449 --> 01:25:06.350 to fighting, you just need to get the numbers. 01:25:07.250 --> 01:25:11.069 And I often wonder if Edric hadn't been so disloyal, 01:25:11.270 --> 01:25:13.670 would Edmund ever eventually have had the edge 01:25:13.670 --> 01:25:17.649 to defeat Knut once and for all? And if he had, 01:25:17.670 --> 01:25:19.949 that would have changed our history forever. 01:25:20.210 --> 01:25:23.250 It really would. There's a lot of times, isn't 01:25:23.250 --> 01:25:26.069 there, you know, a lot of ifs in this period. 01:25:27.529 --> 01:25:31.210 I mean, really just to end up with almost that 01:25:31.210 --> 01:25:34.729 Harthacnut eventually did become King of England, 01:25:34.949 --> 01:25:39.710 but he died again, tragically, as a young man. 01:25:40.050 --> 01:25:43.369 Two years, that's all we had. And because then 01:25:43.369 --> 01:25:46.109 that then meant, of course, that Edward was the 01:25:46.109 --> 01:25:48.970 only son left alive. The only eldest son left, 01:25:49.050 --> 01:25:54.359 yeah. Edward the confessor became King. And you 01:25:54.359 --> 01:25:58.319 then roll forward to 1066 when it all changed 01:25:58.319 --> 01:26:05.000 yet again. Yep, here is the much older son of 01:26:05.000 --> 01:26:08.800 Emma. Yeah, there's their depiction of Edward 01:26:08.800 --> 01:26:12.479 Vestor. There's Edward, yes. So now everyone 01:26:12.479 --> 01:26:16.659 will know why he had such a normal court. Of 01:26:16.659 --> 01:26:20.359 course, Harthacanew actually brought Edward back 01:26:20.359 --> 01:26:24.819 to England a year before he died. He set up Edward 01:26:24.819 --> 01:26:28.920 as his successor, even while he was still alive. 01:26:30.100 --> 01:26:31.880 So whether or not he knew he wasn't going to 01:26:31.880 --> 01:26:36.960 marry or he was ill of something, it's like he 01:26:36.960 --> 01:26:39.439 knew that Edward was going to be a successor, 01:26:39.779 --> 01:26:41.800 even though he was still a young man himself. 01:26:42.039 --> 01:26:45.819 yeah you think Emma had a hand in that Sharon 01:26:45.819 --> 01:26:49.100 because I do I think oh yeah I think Emma was 01:26:49.100 --> 01:26:52.319 probably the peacemaker and you know said to 01:26:52.319 --> 01:26:54.220 Arthur Canute you need to bring your brother 01:26:54.220 --> 01:26:57.939 back you haven't got a wife and child yet you 01:26:57.939 --> 01:26:59.920 know the Witton could have also demanded after 01:26:59.920 --> 01:27:01.939 dealing with the whole Emma and they'll give 01:27:01.939 --> 01:27:04.479 you and Arthur Canute versus Harold Heath but 01:27:04.479 --> 01:27:06.260 they probably didn't want to do the whole family 01:27:06.260 --> 01:27:09.079 counselling sessions anymore well it was probably 01:27:09.079 --> 01:27:15.880 also um as a sign of for confidence for England. 01:27:16.760 --> 01:27:20.439 It's always a difficult time if the king hasn't 01:27:20.439 --> 01:27:23.140 got a successor, an obvious successor. Henry 01:27:23.140 --> 01:27:25.920 VIII would be the one to explain that to you, 01:27:25.960 --> 01:27:30.460 how much you needed a son. So seeing as he hadn't 01:27:30.460 --> 01:27:33.779 got a son, if he had Edward there physically 01:27:33.779 --> 01:27:39.060 showing that he had a natural succession, and 01:27:39.060 --> 01:27:42.560 also one that could possibly heal many rifts 01:27:42.560 --> 01:27:48.159 in England because he was English. And as well, 01:27:48.159 --> 01:27:51.239 I mean, Harthacan had his own problems, as we 01:27:51.239 --> 01:27:54.180 have said, back in Denmark. Yeah, and Harthacan 01:27:54.180 --> 01:27:57.119 wasn't very nice by all accounts, you know, he 01:27:57.119 --> 01:28:03.420 was, was it Hereford? He put to the sword because 01:28:03.420 --> 01:28:06.890 two of his tax collectors were killed. um he 01:28:06.890 --> 01:28:09.949 raised heavy taxes he wasn't a popular king in 01:28:09.949 --> 01:28:13.890 England so Edward being there might have also 01:28:13.890 --> 01:28:18.369 um helped his popularity problem. I wonder if 01:28:18.369 --> 01:28:21.550 Arthur Canute would have had possibly under advisement 01:28:21.550 --> 01:28:24.210 from his mum as always his admiration in the 01:28:24.210 --> 01:28:26.369 background of things. Well you'd have to wouldn't 01:28:26.369 --> 01:28:30.310 you? This woman has been in England in a position 01:28:30.310 --> 01:28:34.930 of power since the year 10000 and two you know 01:28:34.930 --> 01:28:39.449 she had 40 years of experience you've got to 01:28:39.449 --> 01:28:42.329 use that yeah yeah and who doesn't listen to 01:28:42.329 --> 01:28:44.430 their mum especially when you spend most of your 01:28:44.430 --> 01:28:49.750 life in Denmark as well you say who doesn't listen 01:28:49.750 --> 01:28:51.649 to their mum well the one person who didn't listen 01:28:51.649 --> 01:28:58.220 to his mum was Edward the Converser basically 01:28:58.220 --> 01:29:00.939 would have nothing to do with her. You can't 01:29:00.939 --> 01:29:04.500 blame him. Didn't he eventually force her to 01:29:04.500 --> 01:29:06.840 basically retire to a convent after all that 01:29:06.840 --> 01:29:12.300 time? Not to a convent, I don't think. To her 01:29:12.300 --> 01:29:15.420 own house in Winchester. But there was this scene 01:29:15.420 --> 01:29:20.300 when Edward did come to the throne, that he and 01:29:20.300 --> 01:29:23.680 his buddies, including Earl Godwin, rode all 01:29:23.680 --> 01:29:26.239 the way to Winchester to seize the treasury from 01:29:26.239 --> 01:29:30.960 his mother. and basically is a symbol of I'm 01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:33.479 taking control and also I don't trust you mother 01:29:33.479 --> 01:29:36.579 not that she had anyone else to give the treasury 01:29:36.579 --> 01:29:39.560 to and and it's a certain sign of Emma's power 01:29:39.560 --> 01:29:42.199 that he needed three earls and a king to code 01:29:42.199 --> 01:29:46.140 and and and get that get that treasure and say 01:29:46.140 --> 01:29:49.859 okay enough mom you have enough money and land 01:29:49.859 --> 01:29:52.000 to support yourself stay but then he changed 01:29:52.000 --> 01:29:55.380 his mind and she was brought back to court and 01:29:55.380 --> 01:29:58.619 so it's interesting too and I think Emma was 01:29:58.619 --> 01:30:00.640 probably involved in the decision about who he 01:30:00.640 --> 01:30:04.819 would marry. Oh definitely. So that's what made 01:30:04.819 --> 01:30:06.739 me think about Arthur Canute because I wonder 01:30:06.739 --> 01:30:10.880 if he didn't have any of the underlying health 01:30:10.880 --> 01:30:13.300 reasons or wasn't particularly worried about 01:30:13.300 --> 01:30:16.520 his own existence. Maybe he saw himself going 01:30:16.520 --> 01:30:19.920 back to Denmark, finding a queen for himself 01:30:19.920 --> 01:30:22.659 there in Denmark and leaving England to be ruled 01:30:22.659 --> 01:30:26.420 in his stead by Edward. Because he couldn't have 01:30:26.420 --> 01:30:28.319 ruled both countries alone. He would have had 01:30:28.319 --> 01:30:30.680 to have someone. And that's what I have been 01:30:30.680 --> 01:30:33.380 doing. So that actually, you know, makes total 01:30:33.380 --> 01:30:37.439 sense, doesn't it? So, you know, Edward was going 01:30:37.439 --> 01:30:40.920 to be King of England under Harthacanoo. Yeah. 01:30:41.739 --> 01:30:48.640 Yeah, it's possible. Makes sense. Yeah. Wow, 01:30:48.819 --> 01:30:53.100 we have covered so much ladies. We really have. 01:30:53.539 --> 01:30:55.420 And this is why I love this particular area, 01:30:55.500 --> 01:30:57.840 because we've gone through one, two, three, four, 01:30:58.039 --> 01:31:00.439 five kings. I'm not even going to go into Harold 01:31:00.439 --> 01:31:03.220 Godwinson, because that's a whole other story. 01:31:03.819 --> 01:31:09.979 One queen, one queen, one queen, two kings, two 01:31:09.979 --> 01:31:12.760 sons of, actually no, three sons, then became 01:31:12.760 --> 01:31:18.300 king. And how many of them? Yes. at least three, 01:31:20.859 --> 01:31:24.319 the one before Emma became El Gifu and then there 01:31:24.319 --> 01:31:27.199 was the El Gifu against her so it was it's an 01:31:27.199 --> 01:31:29.319 interesting time those under the name of El Gifu 01:31:29.319 --> 01:31:32.579 and as I'll say to you as these ladies have written 01:31:32.579 --> 01:31:35.979 wonderful books do go look them up. do go google 01:31:35.979 --> 01:31:38.100 them read them download them borrow them from 01:31:38.100 --> 01:31:40.119 your library they are wonderful whether they're 01:31:40.119 --> 01:31:42.760 the fiction or non -fiction because as I said 01:31:42.760 --> 01:31:46.239 at the start this is a true era game of thrones 01:31:46.239 --> 01:31:48.380 never before has the throne of england changed 01:31:48.380 --> 01:31:52.899 so many times and involved proper international 01:31:52.899 --> 01:31:56.560 relationships connections empire building never 01:31:56.560 --> 01:31:59.859 before never before until this era and this is 01:31:59.859 --> 01:32:03.960 why because as Helen explained at the start, 01:32:04.340 --> 01:32:07.560 Emma was William the Conqueror's great -aunt? 01:32:07.899 --> 01:32:11.380 Great -aunt? Yep, so he did have family ties 01:32:11.380 --> 01:32:14.859 wiggling back to England before Edward Confessor 01:32:14.859 --> 01:32:16.960 or Harold Godwinson decided that they didn't 01:32:16.960 --> 01:32:19.420 want him or did want him on the throne. That's 01:32:19.420 --> 01:32:24.760 a whole other thing. I'm keeping quiet. Apart 01:32:24.760 --> 01:32:26.939 from to say William had no rights to the English 01:32:26.939 --> 01:32:31.359 throne, apart from that. So if you are indeed 01:32:31.359 --> 01:32:33.439 watching this and also happen to have watched 01:32:33.439 --> 01:32:36.539 or recently rediscovered Vikings Valhalla on 01:32:36.539 --> 01:32:40.560 Netflix, Ethelred, Emma and Canute were real. 01:32:40.899 --> 01:32:43.880 They did exist. Edmund did exist, although I 01:32:43.880 --> 01:32:45.479 don't think he was the petulant boy that made 01:32:45.479 --> 01:32:47.819 him out to be. You would have a brother, Athelstan, 01:32:48.119 --> 01:32:51.159 who he didn't feature at all. Swain Fultbid did 01:32:51.159 --> 01:32:54.720 exist, but he died before Canute became king, 01:32:54.779 --> 01:32:57.020 so... That's the pinch of salt with that one. 01:32:57.359 --> 01:33:01.039 And as for Harold Sigurdsson and Olaf, they're 01:33:01.039 --> 01:33:03.920 a century or two later. Not even a century. Just 01:33:03.920 --> 01:33:06.300 they're just over the horizon in terms of the 01:33:06.300 --> 01:33:09.859 timeline. Yeah, because they they were they were 01:33:09.859 --> 01:33:13.960 children. They didn't know. Harold was born in 01:33:13.960 --> 01:33:16.600 1030, wasn't he? So he would have just been born 01:33:16.600 --> 01:33:21.039 when Vikings Valhalla is. Yeah, because Harold 01:33:21.039 --> 01:33:23.880 Hadrada himself, Harold Sigurdsson, aka before 01:33:23.880 --> 01:33:27.859 Hadrada. He had an equally epic voyage to become 01:33:27.859 --> 01:33:30.699 the king of Norway and that did involve the whole 01:33:30.699 --> 01:33:32.899 spat between Norway and Denmark, but that was 01:33:32.899 --> 01:33:36.000 a whole another episode that I may well possibly, 01:33:36.000 --> 01:33:38.199 if I can recruit some other authors and historians 01:33:38.199 --> 01:33:41.020 to talk about one day, do another episode of. 01:33:41.680 --> 01:33:43.939 Does anyone else have any other points they'd 01:33:43.939 --> 01:33:46.859 like to make to explain to the viewer about why 01:33:46.859 --> 01:33:50.079 this era is so special and should be taught in 01:33:50.079 --> 01:33:54.659 all schools instead of 1066? Just saying. I think 01:33:54.659 --> 01:33:57.279 I would just like to mention, because we have 01:33:57.279 --> 01:34:02.119 vaguely mentioned Earl Godwinson, Harold's father. 01:34:03.079 --> 01:34:07.260 He was actually second in command to Canute. 01:34:11.159 --> 01:34:18.119 Canute's wife was, sorry, Godwinson's wife was 01:34:18.119 --> 01:34:21.420 sister -in -law to Canute, I can't remember. 01:34:21.739 --> 01:34:24.600 Sister -in -law. Sister -in -law to Canute. So, 01:34:24.659 --> 01:34:26.720 you know, so they were kindred connected, but 01:34:26.720 --> 01:34:29.600 that's one of the reasons why the Godwinsons 01:34:29.600 --> 01:34:32.939 come in so much into this history, because he 01:34:32.939 --> 01:34:36.520 was so involved with Canute. You've got that, 01:34:36.520 --> 01:34:39.659 you know, connection there. You know, again, 01:34:39.800 --> 01:34:42.140 I just find this all so fascinating, all these 01:34:42.140 --> 01:34:48.000 people, all these political maneuverings. It's 01:34:48.000 --> 01:34:50.420 just a fascinating period in history, and like 01:34:50.420 --> 01:34:53.060 you say, it's not well taught. My son did it 01:34:53.060 --> 01:34:57.800 in year five, four, in year four, I think, when 01:34:57.800 --> 01:35:02.699 he was seven or eight. And we lived near Gainsborough. 01:35:03.739 --> 01:35:07.760 And when Swain Forkbeard was king, Gainsborough 01:35:07.760 --> 01:35:10.779 was the capital of England. For six weeks, it 01:35:10.779 --> 01:35:12.600 was the capital of England. So just think, if 01:35:12.600 --> 01:35:15.560 Swain had survived, London wouldn't be the capital 01:35:15.560 --> 01:35:19.810 now. Gainsborough would be the capital. Well, 01:35:20.550 --> 01:35:23.310 my son, I remember actually saying to my son, 01:35:23.489 --> 01:35:25.989 trying to, you know, get him to do the history 01:35:25.989 --> 01:35:28.710 and remember things. So I said to him, so when 01:35:28.710 --> 01:35:32.010 did Swain Forkbeard die? Expecting him to say 01:35:32.010 --> 01:35:35.430 1014. And of course, he's seven. He just went, 01:35:35.529 --> 01:35:41.609 when he fell off his horse. I still remind him 01:35:41.609 --> 01:35:45.250 of that lesson. Poor lad. Actually, that just 01:35:45.250 --> 01:35:46.829 reminded me of one character that we haven't 01:35:46.829 --> 01:35:49.789 touched on a lot, and that is Thorkell at all. 01:35:50.390 --> 01:35:52.130 Because, of course, he had a bit of a role to 01:35:52.130 --> 01:35:54.850 play. He had a switch of alliances, but not to 01:35:54.850 --> 01:35:57.550 the extent of Edric's re -owner. He was, as you 01:35:57.550 --> 01:36:01.270 say, allied with Ethelred in ready, but he eventually 01:36:01.270 --> 01:36:04.090 switched to Canute whilst Canute was trying to 01:36:04.090 --> 01:36:05.710 get the throne, was that right? Yeah, he'd been 01:36:05.710 --> 01:36:08.970 on Swain's side, and then when Swain died, he 01:36:08.970 --> 01:36:12.789 backed Ethelred because Canute had gone back 01:36:12.789 --> 01:36:18.159 to Denmark. But then Canute launched his plans 01:36:18.159 --> 01:36:21.840 for England, so he decided actually I'll go back 01:36:21.840 --> 01:36:26.819 to Canute and talk his navy with him. Canute 01:36:26.819 --> 01:36:29.279 didn't have a navy anymore. Ethelred didn't have 01:36:29.279 --> 01:36:33.100 a navy because Wulfnoth had stolen it and had 01:36:33.100 --> 01:36:36.319 the battle with Brythnoth and about 80 ships 01:36:36.319 --> 01:36:40.079 had been burned. So Ethelred didn't have a navy 01:36:40.079 --> 01:36:42.779 so he used Thorkell's but then Thorkell decided 01:36:42.779 --> 01:36:45.199 to go back to Canute so suddenly Ethelred again 01:36:45.199 --> 01:36:49.180 didn't have a navy. I think I'm going to argue 01:36:49.180 --> 01:36:53.159 with you a little bit Sharon. Thorkell the Tall 01:36:53.159 --> 01:36:57.880 joined Ethelred in 1012. Oh was it 1012? After 01:36:57.880 --> 01:37:04.979 Archbishop Elfe was murdered by the Vikings and 01:37:04.979 --> 01:37:08.789 supposedly Thorkell tried to stop that. So we 01:37:08.789 --> 01:37:11.670 have to imagine that there was some Christian 01:37:11.670 --> 01:37:19.970 background in the local world. And so he went 01:37:19.970 --> 01:37:22.449 up against his own Viking army and they turned 01:37:22.449 --> 01:37:25.649 against him and he had to decide, oh, I better 01:37:25.649 --> 01:37:27.869 switch sides because these guys are gonna come 01:37:27.869 --> 01:37:30.930 after me. There was some problem there in the 01:37:30.930 --> 01:37:34.479 Viking camp. So that's when in 1012, He joined 01:37:34.479 --> 01:37:38.119 Ethelred. And I don't think he left Ethelred's 01:37:38.119 --> 01:37:40.319 side. It's really hard to know when that happened, 01:37:40.340 --> 01:37:43.680 but I don't think he left Ethelred's employ until 01:37:43.680 --> 01:37:48.880 Ethelred died. And then he went back to his original 01:37:48.880 --> 01:37:51.899 allegiances, which was to the Danes, which was 01:37:51.899 --> 01:37:55.260 to Knut. Because by that time, Sven was dead 01:37:55.260 --> 01:37:59.960 and Knut was in charge of the army. And so. Yeah, 01:38:00.039 --> 01:38:03.260 that as well at that time, Knut. wasn't particularly 01:38:03.260 --> 01:38:06.140 Christian then, but they were still pagan, as 01:38:06.140 --> 01:38:09.560 with his father. It's when he converted to Christianity. 01:38:10.479 --> 01:38:13.319 Canute was baptized. His name was Lambert. When 01:38:13.319 --> 01:38:15.939 he was a little baby, his mother was Christian. 01:38:16.100 --> 01:38:19.880 Yeah. So I think, you know, both Sven and Canute 01:38:19.880 --> 01:38:22.159 and probably Thorkell, they had allegiances. 01:38:22.840 --> 01:38:24.779 They had been, the Vikings had been Christian 01:38:24.779 --> 01:38:29.279 for about 100 years, 50, about 50 years by this 01:38:29.279 --> 01:38:34.579 point. It wasn't, it wasn't Norse religion against 01:38:34.579 --> 01:38:38.079 Christianity, they were all Christians. Yeah, 01:38:40.340 --> 01:38:45.359 at least the elite in Denmark. I don't know about 01:38:45.359 --> 01:38:48.020 them, even in England you had some pagan beliefs. 01:38:50.199 --> 01:38:54.680 We still have pagan beliefs. We still have Wicca 01:38:54.680 --> 01:39:02.260 and that sort of thing. He was not the kind of 01:39:02.260 --> 01:39:04.380 guy that I think switched allegiances the way. 01:39:04.520 --> 01:39:06.539 He didn't turn his back on somebody when they 01:39:06.539 --> 01:39:08.779 really needed him, which is something that Edrick 01:39:08.779 --> 01:39:12.279 did over and over and over again. I get the impression 01:39:12.279 --> 01:39:14.460 that Thorkell would have made an oath of some 01:39:14.460 --> 01:39:17.659 kind and he, like most noble Vikings, at least 01:39:17.659 --> 01:39:19.979 when Vikings depict nobly, they're always oath 01:39:19.979 --> 01:39:23.319 keepers and they have huge hatred for any oath 01:39:23.319 --> 01:39:25.899 breakers. That's the general impression that 01:39:25.899 --> 01:39:30.020 I got. That's right. That's right. And the oath 01:39:30.020 --> 01:39:33.260 was so important in those days, because you made 01:39:33.260 --> 01:39:36.420 it on a relic. And of course, that comes into 01:39:36.420 --> 01:39:39.939 play in 1066 when William said... Oh, no, I was 01:39:39.939 --> 01:39:42.340 going to say that, but you also have to put that 01:39:42.340 --> 01:39:45.420 into context of, yes, the oath made on a relic 01:39:45.420 --> 01:39:47.760 was important. And this is one of the reasons 01:39:47.760 --> 01:39:50.020 why William said that, you know, Harold had broken 01:39:50.020 --> 01:39:55.340 his oath. But there's a big, huge but here. Harold 01:39:55.340 --> 01:39:58.600 was forced to make that oath. but there is also 01:39:58.600 --> 01:40:03.180 a greater oath above that your oath was to your 01:40:03.180 --> 01:40:08.239 loyalty to your lord and in return the lord gave 01:40:08.239 --> 01:40:12.560 loyalty to his men so harold was in this position 01:40:12.560 --> 01:40:16.220 where he had to make this oath because if he 01:40:16.220 --> 01:40:19.800 didn't swear to william he or at least his men 01:40:19.800 --> 01:40:24.340 would be put to death so it was his honor to 01:40:24.340 --> 01:40:27.229 stick up for his men let's say And I think this 01:40:27.229 --> 01:40:31.369 is part of the point with Striona, is that he 01:40:31.369 --> 01:40:36.010 did not have that loyalty again and again and 01:40:36.010 --> 01:40:40.310 again. He broke his oath, not so much the oath, 01:40:40.369 --> 01:40:43.829 but he broke his loyalty to the men he should 01:40:43.829 --> 01:40:47.649 have been with. That, I think, is the huge difference. 01:40:48.770 --> 01:40:50.930 And Harold would have known also that he was 01:40:50.930 --> 01:40:53.310 making the oath under duress. He would have known. 01:40:53.790 --> 01:40:56.770 that it wasn't valid, that he could get the church 01:40:56.770 --> 01:40:58.770 to turn around and say, no, you're okay, you 01:40:58.770 --> 01:41:01.529 were forced to do it, otherwise you'd be killed. 01:41:02.529 --> 01:41:06.710 We know that's acceptable. You'd already given 01:41:06.710 --> 01:41:10.210 an oath to Edward, so you couldn't actually in 01:41:10.210 --> 01:41:14.369 any... William couldn't expect you to hold on 01:41:14.369 --> 01:41:16.069 to an oath when you've already given your oath 01:41:16.069 --> 01:41:19.310 to Edward. Yeah, and yet Streona knew perfectly 01:41:19.310 --> 01:41:22.390 well that he was breaking his oath. Yeah. again 01:41:22.390 --> 01:41:24.029 and again and again and again. That he could 01:41:24.029 --> 01:41:26.350 get away with it. Yes. That he would have excuse, 01:41:26.510 --> 01:41:29.489 have his allies, have his alibis. I mean I'm 01:41:29.489 --> 01:41:31.510 thinking now on a really common level, I'm like 01:41:31.510 --> 01:41:33.550 imagine you're a soldier in Edric Scherner's 01:41:33.550 --> 01:41:35.649 army, you say goodbye to your wife, you say oh 01:41:35.649 --> 01:41:36.989 we're going to go fight the Vikings and then 01:41:36.989 --> 01:41:38.710 you come home early and just like did you win? 01:41:38.750 --> 01:41:41.770 It's like oh no we didn't fight and what kind 01:41:41.770 --> 01:41:43.909 of tent would have created all these little families 01:41:43.909 --> 01:41:45.949 of all these men coming home early because they 01:41:45.949 --> 01:41:48.529 hadn't gone and thought for their lord. I often 01:41:48.529 --> 01:41:51.779 wondered if there was I mean, he probably installed 01:41:51.779 --> 01:41:54.939 some kind of strictness or maybe even a sense 01:41:54.939 --> 01:41:57.399 of fear among his men to not have anyone challenge 01:41:57.399 --> 01:41:59.920 him. But then maybe that's the way society was. 01:42:00.239 --> 01:42:01.319 You couldn't challenge them. But then again, 01:42:01.319 --> 01:42:03.979 they're just very honest men, given their loyalty 01:42:03.979 --> 01:42:06.500 to him. So they actually had no choice. He would 01:42:06.500 --> 01:42:08.779 either say, well, today we're fighting the Vikings, 01:42:08.939 --> 01:42:10.579 but tomorrow we're going to go off and fight. 01:42:11.340 --> 01:42:13.479 And they would have had no choice. They would 01:42:13.479 --> 01:42:16.810 have had to have done what he said. and of course 01:42:16.810 --> 01:42:19.069 Canute in the end would have had little choice 01:42:19.069 --> 01:42:22.930 but to execute Stryona because you have to show 01:42:22.930 --> 01:42:26.989 people that an oath is binding and if somebody 01:42:26.989 --> 01:42:32.590 keeps changing sides then and survives he's showing 01:42:32.590 --> 01:42:35.869 that an oath has no power whatsoever and you 01:42:35.869 --> 01:42:38.750 can't do that so as soon as he was no longer 01:42:38.750 --> 01:42:42.250 useful he had to go and he had to go in a violent 01:42:42.250 --> 01:42:44.789 way otherwise everybody else could have just 01:42:44.789 --> 01:42:46.970 turned around and said actually can you I don't 01:42:46.970 --> 01:42:49.229 want to be I don't want to be your oathman anymore 01:42:49.229 --> 01:42:52.529 either so I'm going so it had to be you know 01:42:52.529 --> 01:42:55.729 he was always going to come to a sticky end yeah 01:42:55.729 --> 01:43:02.170 yeah definitely any other last thoughts because 01:43:02.170 --> 01:43:05.869 I'm hungry more than I thought we would ever 01:43:05.869 --> 01:43:08.149 would but it's been just so lovely to discuss 01:43:08.149 --> 01:43:11.710 all this with all of you it really has it's been 01:43:11.710 --> 01:43:16.180 a lot of fun thank you I really enjoyed it It's 01:43:16.180 --> 01:43:19.500 been great. It's been great. And I just want 01:43:19.500 --> 01:43:23.399 to say that, and I think my compatriots here 01:43:23.399 --> 01:43:27.579 would agree with me. I think even today, Queen 01:43:27.579 --> 01:43:32.640 Emma is given sort of a bad, shadowy reputation. 01:43:33.060 --> 01:43:38.579 I've seen her called ruthless, ambitious, and 01:43:38.579 --> 01:43:41.739 I don't think that was the case. I think that 01:43:41.739 --> 01:43:45.989 she fought for her children. She's been called 01:43:45.989 --> 01:43:49.189 ruthless because she sent her two sons to Normandy 01:43:49.189 --> 01:43:53.289 and she then married Knut. I think she did that 01:43:53.289 --> 01:43:56.050 because this is the only way to keep them alive. 01:43:58.289 --> 01:44:02.090 And no one recognizes the position that she was 01:44:02.090 --> 01:44:07.170 in again more than once as Queen of England. 01:44:08.300 --> 01:44:11.760 how she had to make decisions, really tough decisions. 01:44:12.319 --> 01:44:17.039 And I think that to throw shadow on her for doing 01:44:17.039 --> 01:44:20.579 that, I think that's not taking into consideration 01:44:20.579 --> 01:44:23.779 the situation that she was in at the time. Totally 01:44:23.779 --> 01:44:26.260 agree, Pat. I think she should be more seen as 01:44:26.260 --> 01:44:30.079 sensible, practical, intelligent. Very strategic. 01:44:30.960 --> 01:44:35.420 A survivor. you know she was and it's often the 01:44:35.420 --> 01:44:39.520 way you see with women women are often um when 01:44:39.520 --> 01:44:43.520 women actually do make sensible moves that protect 01:44:43.520 --> 01:44:47.600 them and help them survive they're seen as manipulative 01:44:47.600 --> 01:44:49.720 yeah and it's like when they when they do better 01:44:49.720 --> 01:44:52.600 than their male counterparts yeah exactly she 01:44:52.600 --> 01:44:56.180 was um and a lot of the things she did the men 01:44:56.180 --> 01:44:58.579 would have been allowed to get away with it's 01:44:58.579 --> 01:45:02.810 like one of the worst names I think that women 01:45:02.810 --> 01:45:06.069 are given is She -Wolf it's like they because 01:45:06.069 --> 01:45:08.350 they use it as an insult and it's like she's 01:45:08.350 --> 01:45:11.050 protecting her children even the ones she sent 01:45:11.050 --> 01:45:16.550 to Normandy she did that to protect them oh yes 01:45:16.550 --> 01:45:23.510 yes she needs more praise than criticism I think 01:45:26.989 --> 01:45:30.989 You have to look at them from you You have to 01:45:30.989 --> 01:45:34.090 look at them based on the sources, but you have 01:45:34.090 --> 01:45:40.250 to think that the sources are They're they're 01:45:40.250 --> 01:45:44.310 they're not kind, you know They are they have 01:45:44.310 --> 01:45:47.529 an agenda That's very against women. They're 01:45:47.529 --> 01:45:53.859 his story. Yeah and most of them are written 01:45:53.859 --> 01:45:57.579 by men, monks even, who don't like women in the 01:45:57.579 --> 01:45:59.300 first place and think women should be seen and 01:45:59.300 --> 01:46:01.619 not heard. They're not there to actually have 01:46:01.619 --> 01:46:07.060 an opinion. So you have to filter out the antagonism 01:46:07.060 --> 01:46:10.399 and just look at them as, you know, think, oh, 01:46:10.539 --> 01:46:12.680 she was manipulative. Okay, that means she was 01:46:12.680 --> 01:46:15.600 strong and she was clever. You know, and you 01:46:15.600 --> 01:46:18.520 have to look at it. We should actually do a dictionary 01:46:18.520 --> 01:46:21.239 of the way women are described in medieval times 01:46:21.239 --> 01:46:24.460 and actually translate it into what women actually 01:46:24.460 --> 01:46:38.920 were. The media has, and of course we do too, 01:46:39.020 --> 01:46:41.520 the media has taken their stories and some of 01:46:41.520 --> 01:46:43.699 it's been twisted, but the reality is the real 01:46:43.699 --> 01:46:48.140 story that existed is as fascinating as any fiction 01:46:48.140 --> 01:46:52.000 that you could write about them. Yeah. Yeah, 01:46:52.039 --> 01:46:55.340 definitely. Well, thank you so much to Helen, 01:46:55.560 --> 01:46:57.960 Patricia, and of course to Sharon. You've been 01:46:57.960 --> 01:47:01.760 such wonderful guests and co -hosts on this wonderful 01:47:01.760 --> 01:47:06.250 big long joint monologue. of this truly amazing 01:47:06.250 --> 01:47:09.090 11th century period and it is, as I think the 01:47:09.090 --> 01:47:11.810 title just about says, a game of thrones and 01:47:11.810 --> 01:47:14.229 queens because if it wasn't without the women, 01:47:14.770 --> 01:47:17.010 and I am kind of counting on Gifu with this one 01:47:17.010 --> 01:47:18.430 because I know we didn't really acknowledge her 01:47:18.430 --> 01:47:20.569 as a queen but she didn't really get crowned 01:47:20.569 --> 01:47:23.869 as such, although she did assist in trying to 01:47:23.869 --> 01:47:26.840 rule Norway but that didn't work out well. and 01:47:26.840 --> 01:47:29.760 Vikingswellhala has made her a queen but she 01:47:29.760 --> 01:47:33.100 wasn't one just to clarify. This is why I think 01:47:33.100 --> 01:47:35.279 this episode is important because viewers of 01:47:35.279 --> 01:47:37.859 Vikingswellhala will finally have encountered 01:47:37.859 --> 01:47:40.300 them. They will be wondering were these women 01:47:40.300 --> 01:47:44.140 real and hopefully our little joint episode has 01:47:44.140 --> 01:47:46.720 set the record straight in many ways. As I've 01:47:46.720 --> 01:47:49.119 said several times please dear viewers go read 01:47:49.119 --> 01:47:51.880 the books, go buy them, go find them and shower 01:47:51.880 --> 01:47:53.779 as well. I haven't got a shower yet on my shelf 01:47:53.779 --> 01:47:58.680 but it will be one day soon. and find out the 01:47:58.680 --> 01:48:01.000 facts for yourself because it is truly remarkable 01:48:01.000 --> 01:48:03.560 and it's far better than Vikings, Valhalla and 01:48:03.560 --> 01:48:05.899 Game of Thrones combined there. I've said it, 01:48:06.159 --> 01:48:10.500 the mic has been dropped. Thank you so much to 01:48:10.500 --> 01:48:12.779 everyone and thank you dear viewers as well for 01:48:12.779 --> 01:48:14.899 tuning in for the near two hours of this episode. 01:48:15.079 --> 01:48:17.420 We do hope you've learnt a lot. There is a lot 01:48:17.420 --> 01:48:20.220 going on but as I repeat, buy the books, read 01:48:20.220 --> 01:48:23.140 one after the other and it all makes sense. It 01:48:23.140 --> 01:48:25.739 really will. It really will. So thank you again 01:48:25.739 --> 01:48:28.859 for watching and happy North Bumber to everyone. 01:48:30.300 --> 01:48:32.060 Thank you. Thank you. Bye.