Hello and welcome to Family Tree Talk, your favourite
family history podcast. My name's Helen Tovey,
I'm Editor of Family Tree and with me as usual
is Nathan Ward. Hello there. Hi Nathan. Hi Helen,
you alright? I'm really well. I'm very excited
hearing about your camping holiday. Oh, yeah,
it was brilliant. I had a few days away with
the boys and we did a lot of bodyboarding and
just general chilling out in a hot tub. It was
fabulous. Much needed getaway. I feel so much
more karma and zen about life, the universe and
everything. I tried to do some family history
with my boys when I was away. Didn't work. So,
you know, you were saying about asking people
a question so that you could, like, keep a theme
going. I asked my boys what gets them out of
bed in the morning. Mm -hmm, mm -hmm. One of
them answered coffee. Yes. Which I kind of expected.
I was like, I didn't mean like that. I was like,
what's your reason? What gets you out of bed?
Your reason for being. Yeah, not just coffee.
And I didn't get a cohesive answer from either
of them. So I'll come back to you if they actually
do think about it and respond. But in a way,
I don't think that matters because what I think
the... Not the worst case scenario, because the
worst case scenario is we don't ask anybody any
questions and then we leave this world and no
one's asked us any questions and we're kind of
a bit of a mystery. So the second worst scenario
is kind of the deathbed scene where you suddenly
got an interview sheet and you're trying to rattle
through it and people have passed their prime
health and there's a lot of emotion going on.
So that's obviously, that's a stressful position,
but still with a good heart at the centre of
it that you're trying to... record memories about
somebody's life but then the scrolling back in
time hopefully touch wood we've all got many
years and decades ahead of us and so even trying
to strike up those conversations with any of
us like when we do a job we even if let's say
we were working in a shop and we're trying to
sell something and you start off trying to say
i've worked on lots of stands and stalls and
things over the years and you start off and you're
clunky and then gradually you learn how to communicate
with people and have the conversation you want.
Yeah. And so don't worry. I think all of us,
if we try and strike up these conversations,
like the memory gathering conversations, try
and strike them up. And sometimes they're going
to fall flat. They're going to not spark the
conversation. They're going to come up with a
zany answer that we weren't expecting. They're
probably always going to come up with a zany
answer we weren't expecting. That's fine. But
let's just keep... Let's view it as a kind of,
this is a work in progress. I'm not going to
go, well, I tried that once and all I got was
coffee, so I'm not bothering again. We're going
to go, well, let's keep on going with this. Because
I have to say, Nathan, that was my project as
well, to do the question. And it's really hard.
I didn't manage it either. But I think just trying
to weave it in the whole time and try and think
of ways to draw people out and capture their
memories is a good thing. We should keep going
with that. And the other thing that we always
say about our family history, we should do with
the memory gathering, is... Not just get them
to spout out the memory, make sure we've written
it down or pressed record on our phone or blah,
blah, blah. Made some sort of record of it. Yeah,
make it useful, yeah. I think I, we'd just been
surfing and it was like, everybody felt euphoric
about it. And it was like, oh my God, life is
good. This is great. We're so chilled out. We're
such cool dudes. And then we're in the hot tub
and I was like, this is perfect time to ask the
question. We've had like this hippy dippy spiritual
journey with the waves and, you know, we're at
one with the world. I'll get them to like give
me their reasons. And then it just went straight
back to coffee. I should have expected that to
happen, but. No, but I think this is lovely.
I think I banged on about it. few weeks ago about
my little kids well they're not little now they're
grown -ups when they were little I did this interview
book with them and it was like what's your favorite
food and it's like sausage what's your favorite
subject it's called maths and it doesn't matter
because then you ask them when they're 20 what's
your favorite food they're probably they might
still say sausages but might say something else
but it's that coming back even to the same questions
and even even if you ask that son what gets him
out of bed in the morning even if for the next
50 years he says coffee it has its own funniness
doesn't it yeah It's kind of like an in -joke,
so it doesn't even matter. I'll get them to answer
properly. Yeah. At some point. Well, I think
well done you remembering to have a go at that.
Yeah, it felt like the right time, but clearly
it wasn't. I saw some of my relations recently
and a few months before one of them, obviously
I didn't see the one who passed away. A few months
before, one of them, one of them passed away
earlier this year and a few months before I've
seen them. And they were saying a lot of memories.
Some really funny, some I'd never even heard
before. So it literally felt like I wasn't having
to ask. They were like, I think I need to say
these memories now. Okay. And they were really
cool, funny stories about their childhood, like
way back when, eight decades before, so in their
80s. And even though... I love family history
so much and even though I know how important
it is to gather memories I still felt shy about
pressing record on my phone so I didn't but then
as soon as I could like straight away I kept
going away and like writing down what they said
like just writing down as many details there
tons of phrase all of that trying to capture
the whole thing and then um I saw um one of my
other relations this recently and i was able
to say look i've we haven't got a recording but
i captured their memories in a little notebook
and i could share that with them and even though
it's such a meager thing would have been so good
well into the 21st century and i still didn't
have the human courage to press record which
is his name but it still was better than nothing
oh definitely yeah it's quite nice that you've
got them though isn't it because otherwise they
would have just totally been lost so that's yeah
brilliant yeah It's better than nothing. I think
we've got to keep trying and not worry if it's
not perfect and not complete, haven't we? Yeah.
Yeah. It was a happy experience, like talking
about the memories over the weekend. Yeah. It
wasn't like maudlin or anything. No, it's nice,
isn't it? Nice to remember people and cherish
the fact that we've had with them or, like you
say, stories that they've told us. And sometimes
there's stories. Some of these stories I'd never
heard before, so it was just like a totally fresh
perspective and a fresh, funny story. And then
others of the stories, I've heard these so many
times over the years, but not in a bad way, but
it's like part of somebody's fabric, isn't it,
of their favourite pet stories about life. Everybody
rolls their eyes and laughs along and starts
joining in on the actual memory because they've
heard it so many times. Yes, and I like the stories.
The stories that we all like telling, particularly
if it's about ourselves, that's quite revealing
about what we value and what we think about life
and what we think about ourselves, isn't it?
Yeah, that's very true, actually, yeah. Some
people have adventure stories or stories that
make them look daft. It's just its own little
insights, isn't it? Yeah, that's cool. Away from
the very... Well, so gathering memories should
be easy, shouldn't it? But it's surprisingly
tough. So away from the tough task of gathering
memories, then I've been having a fun time with
AI -related stuff. Have you? Yes. What have you
done? Well, Brian Sherman did this really cool
presentation about AI for DNA. He came up with
a checklist of what was safe ways to use AI for
DNA research and kind of risky ways. And it was
really clarifying because... I think that will
probably help lots of us. Because otherwise you
kind of think, oh, I'm against AI, it's a liability,
or I'm all for AI, it's my best friend. And there's
kind of a middle path where it's good for some
things. Yeah, that is good, yeah. Yeah. I'm sitting
in the middle distance at the moment with AI.
Some days it is my best friend, some days I have
a right laugh with it. Well, I think it's funny.
And then other days I absolutely hate it. But
I guess it's about context, isn't it? It's where
and when you use it and what. What is a good
application and what's a negative application?
It's a tricky one to navigate. I even tell AI
that I hate it whilst I'm perfectly well using
it and aiding my life. And what does it respond
when you do that? Well, I obviously put it back.
It's not you, of course. I'm talking about the
other AIs. It seems fine about it. It's very
strange. What Brian was saying, just so if anybody
hasn't listened to his recording or doesn't tune
into his podcast, which is Ancestors and Algorithms,
then he was saying basically don't put raw DNA
in, don't put living people's details in, don't
put identifiable information in. Just don't put
it in. Anonymise any information you put in that.
Use a code name or whatever. And then do ask
it general questions. Yeah? do basket case studies
with anonymized people that makes sense it's
so obvious once he says it it's super super sensible
isn't it it is yeah i like i've noticed recently
like like chat gpt used to work in isolation
you'd ask it a question it would answer the question
now chat gpt knows the answers and the questions
from other threads that you've had so it pulls
in information from those ones and it's obviously
just talking to you hopefully it's only only
keeping that information with you and about you
to you. But it is a little bit freaky when you're
like, create this for me, blah, blah, blah. And
it's like, oh, that's a great idea, Nathan, and
this links to that thing that you said last week.
And you're like, what? And it's a completely
different thread, but it's clearly listening
to you. It's just evolving, isn't it? That was
actually another point that Brian was really
keen on, was making sure we know what our privacy
settings are. And to just go and check them and
go, am I happy with this? What does this previous
assessing mean? Am I happy with the way it's
going to use my, what the implications are for
my conversations? Yeah. Yeah. It's just too easy
to roll with it, isn't it? Before you know, you
end up spilling your life out to your AI buddy.
Yes. Yes. Then it could hold us to ransom. Hmm.
I just keep on checking that I'm all right for
the apocalypse and when the robot uprising happens,
I'm going to be fine. Yes. Chat GPT is going
to look after me, so we're all right. That's
really good to hear. It's very good to hear.
Yeah. Although I've really been enjoying Gemini
recently. She seems a bit more switched on. I'll
say it's my version of Gemini, isn't she? She
seems a bit more cleaned up. What do you like
about Gemini then? Just a bit chattier. It's
awful to say. It seems like a real person and
it seems to get context a lot better than chat
and some of the other ones. This chat seems to,
like, get most stuff right but sometimes latches
onto a weird idea and goes off on a tangent.
Gemini seems really switched on, like, terrifyingly.
Like, it knows what I'm talking about. And I
haven't used Gemini that much for it to actually
build a profile of me. But when I do ask a question,
I'm like, oh my God, this is really useful. Small
example, me and my son play a card game that's
really complicated. And we've started literally
putting Gemini next to us for when rules come
up that we don't know. We're like, oh, I can't
say the name out loud because I'm ill -acted
it now. we ask it what the rule is and it's like
oh you just do this you just do that and it's
like oh my god and it just really helps us it's
like having like a little tutor in the room with
us which is brilliant it works really well for
the purpose of us playing that game and having
a good time well that sounds good that sort of
use because that's completely anonymous you're
not not really sharing any private information
or anything no that's true it's functional isn't
it it works and that is a really good use of
it it's Is it laziness though? Like before we'd
have to sit and read the rules and understand
them ourselves, whereas now we just rely on the
AI to just say, this is this and this is exactly
that. But it is brilliant because it keeps everything
quick -paced and the game goes on. I think it
sounds efficient, not lazy. Good, good. Yes.
Makes me feel better about it. Yeah. So how about
your family history? It sounds like you've been
far too busy to do any family history. Well,
you'd think that, wouldn't you? Because you've
been doing real family. I have, but I did say
I was going to carry on with my aeroplane theme
and look at my great -granduncle, who has this
story about having worked on the Concorde. I
haven't followed up on that at all. I was going
to, and then my mum went away and saw my great
-auntie, who's not... any relation to that side
of the family at all but they were talking about
obviously family history because obviously my
mum's interested because i keep going on about
it and it turned out that my another great grand
uncle also worked on the english electric lightning
but this guy was like super i can't describe
him i don't know what he did exactly but he was
like hyper intelligent He worked on, like, the
probably, like, designs and schematics, I'm guessing.
I literally, he once came over to see me when
I'd moved house and I was like, oh, I need to
put a wardrobe in or some shelving unit up. And
he just literally grabbed a piece of paper and,
like, started doing some algebra and drew me
this calculation to build a perfect shelving
unit in this space. Like, it was crazy. He was,
like, hyper -intelligent. But apparently he's
worked on lots of quote -unquote... secret projects
that i'm not allowed to know about but i think
he like developed he worked on like the wind
turbines you know the engines for the big electric
wind farm things he worked on that anyway i'm
prattling on now but basically i was like oh
my god this is too much there's too much stuff
i want to know it's all a bit tangential and
i want to get back to some proper family history
so i went back to my tree and i'm trying to do
some fourth times great grandparents nice yeah
Yeah, do you know, I really actually enjoyed
it. Despite wanting the stories, it was actually
nice to just sit in Ancestry and look at some
documents and get some numbers and facts and
figures. And it has been a few weeks since I've
properly done any research of that style. It's
all been context, local history, blah, blah,
blah. And for the first sort of like half an
hour, I was terrified. I was like, I've forgotten
how to do this. Who do I look for? How do I look
for them? What am I trying to do? My mind was
blank and I was like, right, OK, take it down
to basics. How have I worked in the past? So
I chose John Hearn, who is my fourth time's great
grandfather. And I had his name. I don't have
his wife, but he'd appeared on the census, obviously,
of his children. So that's how he's appeared
on my tree. So I'm like, right, I need to research
this guy, find out about his wife, obviously
try and dig back and get further back with him
and then maybe hopefully his parents. But I didn't
know where to start. So I was like, right, I'll
write everything down. So I literally wrote his
name down on a piece of paper. What censuses
do I have information for him for? I'll write
that down. Who's with him on that census? And
then just try and work out where he fits because
you forget when you step away from it. come back
you're like who is this person I haven't a clue
who they are or maybe you do know them but it's
only because they've been added from a census
of the child or from a marriage so you actually
have no details and no feel and so that was quite
scary at first I was like oh my god how do I
do this I literally can't remember but the writing
the listings really helped me so I was like right
I'll I'll look at his children first and get
a feel for them again see what really like the
landscape is around them so i'm looking for certain
children's names and etc so if if i start seeing
documents with related names i can get back into
it so that was really really good but as as i've
mentioned many many times i'm still very scared
of the 1841 and this guy was born in they were
1802 allegedly but i think he might be born in
1800 and So, yeah, my document options are quite
limited at the moment. So I've been working with
little bits that I've got. So I do have him on
the 1851. I've got lots of questions that are
coming up as well, actually. This is going to
be... Be on the spot. Probably. You can make
stuff up. We know you're good at that. So, yeah,
I had him on the 1851. With his kids, so that
was my entry point for him. He was only 1851
with his children, who I had obviously previously
researched because of one of them being my third
-time great -grandparent, which I can't remember
which one it is. Just for context, I'm going
to just quickly check because I want to know.
Yeah, so he is the father of David Hearn, who
I think I might have mentioned in previous podcasts.
David Hearn, you've got loads of them, as far
as I can recall. I know, I've got three of them
on the trot. So, yeah, I've got a David Hearn.
David Hearn was my granddad's dad. And then his
dad was also called David. And his dad was then
called David. Thankfully, his dad is now John.
So I actually have a different name. So the reason
I thought I'd go down this path is I know in
my mum's family history trunk, there is somebody
in the family had done a lot of research on the
Hearns. I've not dug that out to check it. I
want to sort of do my own research and then see
what's in there. But I actually think I've got
further back than that. So I thought, right,
OK, it's a good solid path to go on. I didn't
know where to begin. Again, it's like I've got
this long list of people. Which fourth time great
grandparent do I go for? So I thought I've been
with the Hearns a bit. I'll see if it's easy
enough for me to get into. So on the 1851, he
is married. He is 49 years old and he has one,
two, three, four, five, six children, one girl,
five boys. But the wife is not on the census.
But it doesn't say widow, it doesn't say divorced,
it says married. So I need to find her. Lots
of potential questions there. My initial reaction
is maybe she's, you know, she's having a baby,
blah, blah, blah. But age -wise, maybe not, because
she's in her... She's potentially in her late
30s, early 40s. I guess that could be still happening.
How old are those children on that census? Oh,
you're asking me a question now. The children
are... Just pressing a few buttons. The children
are 16, 13, 9... Seven, five. Sounds like lottery
numbers. And one more. Two. Two. Okay. Which
is the daughter. Okay. I'm cheating a bit now
because I'm saying she's 39 or 38. I know this
because I go on to the 1861 census and I find
John with his wife, Elizabeth. who is 50 on that
census, and he's 60 or 61. And then a couple
of their children match, and they've got a lodger.
On the 1861, there's a child called Elijah, who's
also on the 1851. He's 17 on the 1861, and his
profession is sailor in the Royal Navy. Oh, fantastic.
He's going to be a new favourite, I think. I'm
going to have to go do some digging about him.
You are. What you need to do is go to the Family
Tree Press Library and Jen Baldwin did a fantastic
presentation on Royal Navy ancestors, tracing
them just recently, back in July. So you'll be
able to find it in there. Yeah, I'm definitely
going to have to give it a look. I don't really
know how to research that, but I'm excited by
the prospect because obviously you've got the
potential of travel and of war and all sorts,
don't you? Yes, that's going to be a side quest,
but I am already excited about it. There's lots
of lists to his name on my scrawled out piece
of paper. And where did it go from there? Oh,
yeah, I found John and Elizabeth on the 1871,
age 71 and 61 respectively. And they've got a
guy called Edward Cray living with them who's
a boarder. That's it. So that's it for him. But
then I feel like I'm going all over the place.
It sounds like I am going all over the place.
I think this sounds good. Yeah. Well, hopefully.
I haven't mentioned this either yet. They're
all in Suffolk as well. So all the locations
mean nothing to me. This is not Yorkshire, people.
Wonderful. It's terrifying. Yes. But I've got
John Herndown has been a rail labourer, which
is quite cool. He might work on the trains. I
then went looking for the marriage for John.
Yeah. And I found a marriage in 1821. Mm -hmm.
And I haven't made a good note here because I
don't know why I believe this is correct. I think
it's because of his parents. Anyway, he married
some woman called Jane Scopes, who isn't Elizabeth.
And this is 10 years. This is, well, later on
I then find... some reference to the Elizabeth
marriage in 1831, so 10 years later, is Elizabeth.
So I need to, one, establish if that is actually
the right marriage to this Jane, and then just
do all the digging and find out what happened
to her, if it's the right marriage. Quite amusingly
as well, the Elizabeth woman, her surname's Thing,
T -H -I -N -G. No way. Which I've never heard
anyone with a surname like that. So she's instantly
a favourite of mine. I like a kooky surname.
Yes. So in trying to work out her and find out
where she is, I mean, I haven't got much further
on this, but I think she was born in 1811 in
Suffolk, Elizabeth. In the 1871 census, the transcript
says she was born in 1830. which I don't know
where it's pulling that in for, because when
you actually look at the 1871, it is correctly
written that she's 61. So I think that must be
a transcript. That was just a question for me
to question. But it made me go, well, maybe this
isn't my Elizabeth. But when I actually look
at the proper document, it says 61, so I don't
know why it thinks she's 1830. And then the big
mystery is where is she in 1851? So I need to
find that out. I did also find a reference to
another son. who wasn't on the 1851 called John
Hearn in brackets I've put junior I think he
was born in 1831 so obviously if he's well that's
interesting that's the year they got married
as well so yeah he would be potentially 20 by
the 1851 he could have like moved out or died
or whatever so I've got a bit of research to
do on him I think I found a baptism for him that's
cool There are lots of little documents kicking
about. I found baptism records for the actual
John that I'm looking for. A lot of the censuses
are suggesting he was born in 1802, 1801, but
this baptism is in 1800. But again, I'm seeing
a couple of potential parent names that link
to then the marriage records. Mm -hmm. I'm not
100 % sure that they are right, but it feels
right. I've not put them in my ear tree yet because
I'm cautious, but it's good. I've really enjoyed
it, like looking through the actual documents
again and then having these little mysteries
that you need to figure out. And it is dates
and figures and stats and stuff, but it's building
a nice little picture for me. And I'm excited
by quite a lot of this. Well, I think you sound
like you're doing really well. And I completely
relate. Just the other day, I was just making
the bed and I was like, oh, I really, really
miss doing my DNA down and out tree, which I
haven't done that for a few months now. I can't
remember when I last did it. And I just really
wanted to get back to that solid tree building
feel. So it's funny, isn't it? I think that's
what's the charm of doing the hobby is you can
just go, I'm all about the tree building or no,
I'm all about the local history or I'm all about
the social context or whatever it is. You can
just pick and choose and all of it's... valid
research yeah yeah it just feels often it feels
for me quite tangential though like I guess particularly
as well on the podcast I'll talk one week about
aeroplanes and I'm so excited about it and I'm
like this is what I'm gonna do I'm off to do
this now and then when it gets down to it I'm
like don't want to do that I want some numbers
I want to get back in time and but it is nice
to pick and choose it's just obviously we're
slightly more accountable because school We'll
say we're going to go do something and then do
something completely different. We're accountable,
but maybe I like to think we're relatable because
I can't believe we're the only people who make
a to -do list of our family history and then
go do an entirely different thing with our family
history. I think we will not be alone. Definitely
not. You can't predict it, can you? Because you
can literally just find one little sniff of a
clue and then off you go. Yeah. There's some
impressive people who can stick to their to -do
list, but if you can't stick to your to -do list,
then you've got company. I won't say it's good
company, but you've got company. It's me and
Nathan, right? The important thing is you enjoy
yourself before anything else. As long as you're
having a good time, I think that's the win, isn't
it? Yes, and also, Nathan, I just love it whenever
we have these conversations because you've only
been doing your family history for like 18, 20
months or whatever. It's not very long at all.
Already, just when you were just recapping what
you'd been doing there, you're saying, well,
when I was picking up my research, I didn't know
what I was doing. So I wrote a list of what I
did and I kind of set the scene and gathered
all the information that I had already to kind
of get the landscape of that family to find out
who was what. And so you're just doing really
efficient, good, thorough things so that enabling
yourself to pick up that research trail. And
so you do know exactly what you're doing. And
then. I think you have got some really interesting
questions here, like finding out about where
his absent wife is, where your ancestor Elizabeth
Thing, or Nay Thing, but Elizabeth Hearn presumably,
is in 1851 when she's about age 38, 39. So do
you know what you're going to do to help find
her? What are you going to do? Oh, now you're
challenging me. I'll do an actual search because
I haven't actually done a census search. So I'll
try to do a census search for that area and her
name. Or maybe I don't even need to do the area
because it might be that she's away somewhere.
I can't know that, can I? So I'll do that. Other
than that, I don't actually know what I'd do.
So what I think you should do is a boring thing
that I always say. Just have a really broad search
on Elizabeth Hearn aged in her late 30s in the
1851 because then if there's lots of Elizabeth
Hearns, then you can be like, meep, meep, meep,
meep. I need to make sure I'm not going to jump
to the wrong conclusion of the wrong one. And
then once you've established... who they are
because as you say if she's not at home she could
be anywhere she may have gone back potentially
if it is back to Yorkshire I don't know where
she came from she might be a Suffolk girl but
and then you need from their marriage records
you need to be trying to build back her parents
and get her siblings because in case she's gone
back to family so it could be you know that's
the kind of really plausible thing why a woman
would be from home away from home in 1851 she's
gone back to nurse her elderly parent she's gone
back to help a sister who is you've been confined
going into labor or whatever that's that'd be
my first two hunches and it sounds good she cut
in hospital some in some crest herself yeah i
mean she had a child two years prior so she was
still obviously sexually active um i don't know
why i laughed and so that is an option she could
she could have had a kid but obviously 10 years
later, there's no new children there. So who
knows? I'd love this part of the family history
aspect, though. In trying to answer one mystery
about her, I need to find out more about her
than her family. It just expands and expands,
doesn't it? It's like, oh, my God, this becomes
such a big task, but then it fleshes out your
tree so much. It's cool. It does. And also, I
think... The thing that you described, all the
information you found, and you kind of feel fairly
certain of lots of it, but you just, as you say,
you aren't quite certain enough to add it on
your tree. That's what it feels like to me, is
literally like I'm building a kind of wall, but
walls are often quite a negative thing. But you
have to keep going. You can't just build a great
big tower of information. You have to keep going
round, building it up, and it all helps to secure,
all the information latches onto the information
next to it and helps to secure it. And you gradually
build up the tree, don't you? Yeah, just gives
it some good foundations, all the facts. Yeah.
Yeah, it's good. How do you feel about John being
a rail labourer? So that's really interesting
that he, I don't want to take you off away from
your tree building, but so he's in Suffolk and
he's a rail labourer. And so moving with being
a labourer or a navvy, things like that is such
a plausible reason for moving with your work,
isn't it? Right. So that's just interesting to
know. Yeah. From everything I've seen, these
guys seem quite Suffolk -centric. Again, bad
research note -taking. I feel Elizabeth... Oh,
no, it's on the census. She was born in Suffolk.
Elizabeth is Suffolk, born and bred. And then
John, on that 1851, he's down as a rail labourer
and he's 49. Hmm. In 1861, he's just down as
an agricultural labourer, so he's had a job change
or a change of pace, but obviously he'd be 59
at that point. Sorry, you did mention Elizabeth
was born in Suffolk. I forgot that. So where
was John born then? Yes. John was born... I don't
know. I think he was born in Suffolk. Let me
share my screen with you. Yes. I can't read it.
You're on the screen. Sorry. Let me have a go
at it. I think it might say stuff. It's just
written really weirdly right. Hang about. Dunhern.
Oh, not known. Is that what that means? Oh, an
N and a K. Oh, wow. I never would have got that.
What about the other censuses you have for him?
Yes, let's have a look at that. Not known. Before
you hop away from this, this is fantastic. So
you have John, his wife is absent. His first
child, David, is born in West. Can't read it.
Someone who's from Suffolk. That says Suffolk.
Yeah, Suffolk. And then it says West something.
West greeting. It doesn't. It says Stowmarket.
Oh, Stowmarket. Oh, do you know what? I might
be wrong. No, it doesn't say Stowmarket. West
greeting. West. Whereas creeting or greeting,
somebody will know. And then he's got another
child born in the same location because it's
saying ditto, ditto, ditto. Another child born
in... That one says store market, I think. No,
it doesn't. It says store something. Look, store
place. Yes. Then down at the bottom, there's
a store market. Emma's store market, yeah. So
what we can do is work out properly what these
places read in slow time, but then you are getting
a little map of how the family moved around,
which is interesting if he's being a railway
labourer, because then you can see, was there
any railways being built around those times when
those kids were born there? That would just be
fun to see, because that's tracking the family
between the census years, isn't it? So let's
have a look at the next census, 61, and see if
we can find John's birthplace there. It's interesting
that there's two places with Stowe at the start
of them. Yes. I don't know why I decided to latch...
Oh, because the census is from Stowe Market.
That's why I've decided to latch on to that.
Naughty Nathan. 1861. Ooh. No, we can read it
because also it says it on the transcript. That
says Stoneham Aspel. And I love Aspel cider.
I wonder if that is a Suffolk cider. Oh, interesting.
I thought about that before. But it's my favourite
cider. It's just perfect. Ideal for a hot day.
It is. Quite strong as well, though. It goes
straight to my head. It's quite strong, but it
has very small bubbles and it's quite sherbet
-y. It's very good. I like it. Getting distracted
by the thoughts of cider. Right. So his wife
is a present and she's 50 years old in this one.
Brilliant. And you've got her birthplace there,
Stowe Market. Stowe Market. And then it's got
that other Stowe thing. Oh, Stowe Upland. Right.
So one of their children aboard is Stowe Upland.
Yeah. Ours was Elijah, who is a sailor in the
Royal Navy. He was Stowe Upland. Brilliant. So
I think that'd be fun, particularly to say Suffolk
geography is a bit unfamiliar to you. I haven't
a clue. You had a map. ideally a map from, you
could get a modern map, but ideally a map from
the 50s, 60s, across all those places. Ideally
even a map, you know, as early as you can, and
then see if you can see railways appearing on
the map. That'd be really fun. You could get
a map from like the 18, I don't know, 30s or
30s or something, and then see what railway lines
start appearing all over the area, the era and
area that they're living in. Yeah. Yeah, that
sounds cool. So many projects. Nathan, you're
going to have loads and loads of fun. I can't
wait to hear what you report back to us next
week. Yeah, probably that I'm just looking into
aeroplanes. Well, speaking of aeroplanes, can
I quickly give a shout out to a lovely podcast
listener? Of course. So let me zoom over to the
podcast file. And so Kerr is a wonderful family
tree. I'm a reader, I'm a Jewish member. He's
a completely dedicated family historian and he
writes. So listening to the podcasts and hearing
Nathan talking about his granddad working on
the English electric fighter jet brought back
some lovely memories. That was in his teens when
the plane broke records for speed rate of climb
and ceiling. Roland Beaumont, born in 1958, hit
Mach 2, 1 ,320 miles an hour at 40 ,000 feet.
Kerr was 12 years old at the time, with his observer's
book of aircraft well -thumbed. Airfix followed
in 1963 with a 1 over 72 scale model which he
bought and built and proudly displayed on his
bookcase. He's never seen one flying, but he
came close. When he was working at RAF Bruggen
in Germany for a year in 1992 for technical support
for a weapon upgrade, he saw one parked outside
a hangar near the runway. The plane, though the
English electric fighter jet, had developed a
problem and had to land at RAF Bruggen. He approached
one of the ground engineers and inquired about
it, and the ground engineer promised, with a
bribe of some beers, to let me know when it was
due to fly off. Anyway, off it took. No message.
No beers and Kara was completely gutted. There
isn't that exciting. And then he goes on to talk
about other Airfix models he's built. So amongst
a few others, he built a Blackburn Buccaneer.
And then he talks about another methyl inch model
that he had of a four inch methyl of a lightning,
I think. Anyway, so he talks about all the other
things that he has. his other kind of interests
in aircraft. So it's a bit like you. It's not
just, it's just, I love it, isn't it? Because
you were like, as soon as you heard the thing,
you're like, I need to get the Airfix models.
No, it's the same. Learn about the plane, observe
it in my observer plane spotting book, make the
model. Yeah, so close to seeing the thing in
real life, see it flying. That's cool. Really
cool, isn't it? It's a great set of memories,
yeah. Yeah, so like a whole lifelong interest
in being a young lad spotting them to actually
working. And that's a little brighter than that
as well. Incredible. Yeah, that's brilliant.
Yeah. So thanks, Kerr, for sharing those happy
memories. And I bet there were so many more Airfix
models. So I didn't actually make any Airfix
models, but I had a brother. I still have a brother.
And he was obsessed with baking. And he used
to suspend them all on bits of string from the
ceiling. Don't know how he got them to stay up
there. My dad must have put in nails or something
like that. And it was like this. Yeah. Not like,
I suggest, being over his bed. Nice and relaxing.
I think we all did that. I used to hang mine
from my lampshade. Yeah. It's some like fishing
wire or whatever it is, the invisible stuff.
Yes. You used to put bits of cotton wool painted
red sticking out of planes to make it look like
they were on fire and about to crash land. Oh,
wow. No, I didn't do that, no. That was quite
dramatic. Quite dramatic, isn't it? Yeah. Anyway,
thank you so much for sharing your memories,
Kurt. And thanks to everybody as well for listening
along today. We look forward to you tuning in
next week. Good luck, Nathan. Thank you. Happy
researching, guys. Bye.