WEBVTT 00:00:05.829 --> 00:00:08.990 Hello and welcome to Family Tree Talk, your favourite 00:00:08.990 --> 00:00:11.830 family history podcast. My name's Helen Tovey, 00:00:11.830 --> 00:00:14.369 I'm Editor of Family Tree and with me as usual 00:00:14.369 --> 00:00:18.710 is Nathan Ward. Hello there. Hi Nathan. Hi Helen, 00:00:18.789 --> 00:00:21.070 you alright? I'm really well. I'm very excited 00:00:21.070 --> 00:00:23.480 hearing about your camping holiday. Oh, yeah, 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:25.519 it was brilliant. I had a few days away with 00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:28.960 the boys and we did a lot of bodyboarding and 00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:31.280 just general chilling out in a hot tub. It was 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:35.079 fabulous. Much needed getaway. I feel so much 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:37.560 more karma and zen about life, the universe and 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:40.399 everything. I tried to do some family history 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:43.560 with my boys when I was away. Didn't work. So, 00:00:43.619 --> 00:00:45.600 you know, you were saying about asking people 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.939 a question so that you could, like, keep a theme 00:00:48.939 --> 00:00:51.750 going. I asked my boys what gets them out of 00:00:51.750 --> 00:00:54.189 bed in the morning. Mm -hmm, mm -hmm. One of 00:00:54.189 --> 00:00:57.630 them answered coffee. Yes. Which I kind of expected. 00:00:57.750 --> 00:00:59.250 I was like, I didn't mean like that. I was like, 00:00:59.409 --> 00:01:01.530 what's your reason? What gets you out of bed? 00:01:01.590 --> 00:01:04.170 Your reason for being. Yeah, not just coffee. 00:01:04.849 --> 00:01:06.930 And I didn't get a cohesive answer from either 00:01:06.930 --> 00:01:09.590 of them. So I'll come back to you if they actually 00:01:09.590 --> 00:01:13.390 do think about it and respond. But in a way, 00:01:13.390 --> 00:01:15.769 I don't think that matters because what I think 00:01:15.769 --> 00:01:18.219 the... Not the worst case scenario, because the 00:01:18.219 --> 00:01:19.840 worst case scenario is we don't ask anybody any 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:23.140 questions and then we leave this world and no 00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:25.200 one's asked us any questions and we're kind of 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:28.180 a bit of a mystery. So the second worst scenario 00:01:28.180 --> 00:01:30.280 is kind of the deathbed scene where you suddenly 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:32.340 got an interview sheet and you're trying to rattle 00:01:32.340 --> 00:01:34.640 through it and people have passed their prime 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:36.719 health and there's a lot of emotion going on. 00:01:36.819 --> 00:01:40.060 So that's obviously, that's a stressful position, 00:01:40.260 --> 00:01:42.840 but still with a good heart at the centre of 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:45.170 it that you're trying to... record memories about 00:01:45.170 --> 00:01:47.950 somebody's life but then the scrolling back in 00:01:47.950 --> 00:01:50.750 time hopefully touch wood we've all got many 00:01:50.750 --> 00:01:54.730 years and decades ahead of us and so even trying 00:01:54.730 --> 00:01:57.310 to strike up those conversations with any of 00:01:57.310 --> 00:01:59.989 us like when we do a job we even if let's say 00:01:59.989 --> 00:02:01.209 we were working in a shop and we're trying to 00:02:01.209 --> 00:02:02.730 sell something and you start off trying to say 00:02:02.730 --> 00:02:04.989 i've worked on lots of stands and stalls and 00:02:04.989 --> 00:02:07.049 things over the years and you start off and you're 00:02:07.049 --> 00:02:11.150 clunky and then gradually you learn how to communicate 00:02:11.150 --> 00:02:13.719 with people and have the conversation you want. 00:02:13.900 --> 00:02:17.719 Yeah. And so don't worry. I think all of us, 00:02:17.740 --> 00:02:19.479 if we try and strike up these conversations, 00:02:19.699 --> 00:02:23.479 like the memory gathering conversations, try 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:25.560 and strike them up. And sometimes they're going 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:27.599 to fall flat. They're going to not spark the 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:29.620 conversation. They're going to come up with a 00:02:29.620 --> 00:02:31.159 zany answer that we weren't expecting. They're 00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:32.300 probably always going to come up with a zany 00:02:32.300 --> 00:02:34.500 answer we weren't expecting. That's fine. But 00:02:34.500 --> 00:02:36.509 let's just keep... Let's view it as a kind of, 00:02:36.509 --> 00:02:37.870 this is a work in progress. I'm not going to 00:02:37.870 --> 00:02:39.569 go, well, I tried that once and all I got was 00:02:39.569 --> 00:02:41.129 coffee, so I'm not bothering again. We're going 00:02:41.129 --> 00:02:42.310 to go, well, let's keep on going with this. Because 00:02:42.310 --> 00:02:44.669 I have to say, Nathan, that was my project as 00:02:44.669 --> 00:02:47.729 well, to do the question. And it's really hard. 00:02:47.810 --> 00:02:50.830 I didn't manage it either. But I think just trying 00:02:50.830 --> 00:02:53.650 to weave it in the whole time and try and think 00:02:53.650 --> 00:02:55.009 of ways to draw people out and capture their 00:02:55.009 --> 00:02:57.229 memories is a good thing. We should keep going 00:02:57.229 --> 00:02:59.349 with that. And the other thing that we always 00:02:59.349 --> 00:03:00.909 say about our family history, we should do with 00:03:00.909 --> 00:03:03.639 the memory gathering, is... Not just get them 00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:06.520 to spout out the memory, make sure we've written 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:09.860 it down or pressed record on our phone or blah, 00:03:09.900 --> 00:03:13.780 blah, blah. Made some sort of record of it. Yeah, 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:17.860 make it useful, yeah. I think I, we'd just been 00:03:17.860 --> 00:03:21.120 surfing and it was like, everybody felt euphoric 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:23.180 about it. And it was like, oh my God, life is 00:03:23.180 --> 00:03:25.159 good. This is great. We're so chilled out. We're 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:27.590 such cool dudes. And then we're in the hot tub 00:03:27.590 --> 00:03:29.250 and I was like, this is perfect time to ask the 00:03:29.250 --> 00:03:31.930 question. We've had like this hippy dippy spiritual 00:03:31.930 --> 00:03:34.150 journey with the waves and, you know, we're at 00:03:34.150 --> 00:03:37.389 one with the world. I'll get them to like give 00:03:37.389 --> 00:03:40.009 me their reasons. And then it just went straight 00:03:40.009 --> 00:03:42.849 back to coffee. I should have expected that to 00:03:42.849 --> 00:03:45.370 happen, but. No, but I think this is lovely. 00:03:45.610 --> 00:03:48.699 I think I banged on about it. few weeks ago about 00:03:48.699 --> 00:03:50.340 my little kids well they're not little now they're 00:03:50.340 --> 00:03:52.159 grown -ups when they were little I did this interview 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:54.300 book with them and it was like what's your favorite 00:03:54.300 --> 00:03:55.759 food and it's like sausage what's your favorite 00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:57.479 subject it's called maths and it doesn't matter 00:03:57.479 --> 00:03:59.939 because then you ask them when they're 20 what's 00:03:59.939 --> 00:04:01.479 your favorite food they're probably they might 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:03.300 still say sausages but might say something else 00:04:03.300 --> 00:04:06.060 but it's that coming back even to the same questions 00:04:06.060 --> 00:04:11.240 and even even if you ask that son what gets him 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:12.840 out of bed in the morning even if for the next 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:15.080 50 years he says coffee it has its own funniness 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:17.509 doesn't it yeah It's kind of like an in -joke, 00:04:17.529 --> 00:04:21.850 so it doesn't even matter. I'll get them to answer 00:04:21.850 --> 00:04:25.110 properly. Yeah. At some point. Well, I think 00:04:25.110 --> 00:04:26.910 well done you remembering to have a go at that. 00:04:27.550 --> 00:04:29.649 Yeah, it felt like the right time, but clearly 00:04:29.649 --> 00:04:33.610 it wasn't. I saw some of my relations recently 00:04:33.610 --> 00:04:37.709 and a few months before one of them, obviously 00:04:37.709 --> 00:04:40.399 I didn't see the one who passed away. A few months 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:41.959 before, one of them, one of them passed away 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:43.879 earlier this year and a few months before I've 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:46.680 seen them. And they were saying a lot of memories. 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:49.160 Some really funny, some I'd never even heard 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:51.579 before. So it literally felt like I wasn't having 00:04:51.579 --> 00:04:54.000 to ask. They were like, I think I need to say 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:56.660 these memories now. Okay. And they were really 00:04:56.660 --> 00:04:58.819 cool, funny stories about their childhood, like 00:04:58.819 --> 00:05:01.779 way back when, eight decades before, so in their 00:05:01.779 --> 00:05:07.490 80s. And even though... I love family history 00:05:07.490 --> 00:05:08.829 so much and even though I know how important 00:05:08.829 --> 00:05:11.069 it is to gather memories I still felt shy about 00:05:11.069 --> 00:05:13.769 pressing record on my phone so I didn't but then 00:05:13.769 --> 00:05:16.509 as soon as I could like straight away I kept 00:05:16.509 --> 00:05:18.129 going away and like writing down what they said 00:05:18.129 --> 00:05:21.009 like just writing down as many details there 00:05:21.009 --> 00:05:22.629 tons of phrase all of that trying to capture 00:05:22.629 --> 00:05:28.430 the whole thing and then um I saw um one of my 00:05:28.430 --> 00:05:31.410 other relations this recently and i was able 00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:33.790 to say look i've we haven't got a recording but 00:05:33.790 --> 00:05:35.670 i captured their memories in a little notebook 00:05:35.670 --> 00:05:37.589 and i could share that with them and even though 00:05:37.589 --> 00:05:39.850 it's such a meager thing would have been so good 00:05:39.850 --> 00:05:42.810 well into the 21st century and i still didn't 00:05:42.810 --> 00:05:45.110 have the human courage to press record which 00:05:45.110 --> 00:05:47.850 is his name but it still was better than nothing 00:05:47.850 --> 00:05:51.029 oh definitely yeah it's quite nice that you've 00:05:51.029 --> 00:05:52.550 got them though isn't it because otherwise they 00:05:52.550 --> 00:05:55.089 would have just totally been lost so that's yeah 00:05:55.089 --> 00:05:58.490 brilliant yeah It's better than nothing. I think 00:05:58.490 --> 00:06:02.129 we've got to keep trying and not worry if it's 00:06:02.129 --> 00:06:04.709 not perfect and not complete, haven't we? Yeah. 00:06:05.329 --> 00:06:09.670 Yeah. It was a happy experience, like talking 00:06:09.670 --> 00:06:13.329 about the memories over the weekend. Yeah. It 00:06:13.329 --> 00:06:15.769 wasn't like maudlin or anything. No, it's nice, 00:06:15.790 --> 00:06:17.410 isn't it? Nice to remember people and cherish 00:06:17.410 --> 00:06:19.610 the fact that we've had with them or, like you 00:06:19.610 --> 00:06:22.970 say, stories that they've told us. And sometimes 00:06:22.970 --> 00:06:25.959 there's stories. Some of these stories I'd never 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:28.019 heard before, so it was just like a totally fresh 00:06:28.019 --> 00:06:30.600 perspective and a fresh, funny story. And then 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:32.560 others of the stories, I've heard these so many 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:34.779 times over the years, but not in a bad way, but 00:06:34.779 --> 00:06:38.339 it's like part of somebody's fabric, isn't it, 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:42.540 of their favourite pet stories about life. Everybody 00:06:42.540 --> 00:06:44.980 rolls their eyes and laughs along and starts 00:06:44.980 --> 00:06:47.579 joining in on the actual memory because they've 00:06:47.579 --> 00:06:51.699 heard it so many times. Yes, and I like the stories. 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:55.000 The stories that we all like telling, particularly 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:57.720 if it's about ourselves, that's quite revealing 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:02.060 about what we value and what we think about life 00:07:02.060 --> 00:07:03.480 and what we think about ourselves, isn't it? 00:07:03.620 --> 00:07:05.779 Yeah, that's very true, actually, yeah. Some 00:07:05.779 --> 00:07:09.360 people have adventure stories or stories that 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:13.939 make them look daft. It's just its own little 00:07:13.939 --> 00:07:17.279 insights, isn't it? Yeah, that's cool. Away from 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:20.459 the very... Well, so gathering memories should 00:07:20.459 --> 00:07:21.540 be easy, shouldn't it? But it's surprisingly 00:07:21.540 --> 00:07:23.480 tough. So away from the tough task of gathering 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:27.240 memories, then I've been having a fun time with 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:30.939 AI -related stuff. Have you? Yes. What have you 00:07:30.939 --> 00:07:34.160 done? Well, Brian Sherman did this really cool 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:38.259 presentation about AI for DNA. He came up with 00:07:38.259 --> 00:07:43.660 a checklist of what was safe ways to use AI for 00:07:43.660 --> 00:07:47.000 DNA research and kind of risky ways. And it was 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.769 really clarifying because... I think that will 00:07:49.769 --> 00:07:52.269 probably help lots of us. Because otherwise you 00:07:52.269 --> 00:07:54.329 kind of think, oh, I'm against AI, it's a liability, 00:07:54.550 --> 00:07:57.829 or I'm all for AI, it's my best friend. And there's 00:07:57.829 --> 00:08:00.449 kind of a middle path where it's good for some 00:08:00.449 --> 00:08:05.430 things. Yeah, that is good, yeah. Yeah. I'm sitting 00:08:05.430 --> 00:08:07.149 in the middle distance at the moment with AI. 00:08:07.889 --> 00:08:09.970 Some days it is my best friend, some days I have 00:08:09.970 --> 00:08:12.310 a right laugh with it. Well, I think it's funny. 00:08:12.649 --> 00:08:14.589 And then other days I absolutely hate it. But 00:08:14.589 --> 00:08:17.110 I guess it's about context, isn't it? It's where 00:08:17.110 --> 00:08:19.730 and when you use it and what. What is a good 00:08:19.730 --> 00:08:21.410 application and what's a negative application? 00:08:23.490 --> 00:08:26.550 It's a tricky one to navigate. I even tell AI 00:08:26.550 --> 00:08:29.430 that I hate it whilst I'm perfectly well using 00:08:29.430 --> 00:08:33.070 it and aiding my life. And what does it respond 00:08:33.070 --> 00:08:36.129 when you do that? Well, I obviously put it back. 00:08:36.190 --> 00:08:37.909 It's not you, of course. I'm talking about the 00:08:37.909 --> 00:08:41.850 other AIs. It seems fine about it. It's very 00:08:41.850 --> 00:08:46.750 strange. What Brian was saying, just so if anybody 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:49.490 hasn't listened to his recording or doesn't tune 00:08:49.490 --> 00:08:52.409 into his podcast, which is Ancestors and Algorithms, 00:08:52.470 --> 00:08:55.929 then he was saying basically don't put raw DNA 00:08:55.929 --> 00:08:58.549 in, don't put living people's details in, don't 00:08:58.549 --> 00:09:02.049 put identifiable information in. Just don't put 00:09:02.049 --> 00:09:04.450 it in. Anonymise any information you put in that. 00:09:04.450 --> 00:09:07.190 Use a code name or whatever. And then do ask 00:09:07.190 --> 00:09:12.539 it general questions. Yeah? do basket case studies 00:09:12.539 --> 00:09:14.600 with anonymized people that makes sense it's 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:16.720 so obvious once he says it it's super super sensible 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:19.600 isn't it it is yeah i like i've noticed recently 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:23.139 like like chat gpt used to work in isolation 00:09:23.139 --> 00:09:25.639 you'd ask it a question it would answer the question 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:30.679 now chat gpt knows the answers and the questions 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:35.279 from other threads that you've had so it pulls 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:37.480 in information from those ones and it's obviously 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:39.860 just talking to you hopefully it's only only 00:09:39.860 --> 00:09:42.519 keeping that information with you and about you 00:09:42.519 --> 00:09:45.399 to you. But it is a little bit freaky when you're 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:47.799 like, create this for me, blah, blah, blah. And 00:09:47.799 --> 00:09:49.480 it's like, oh, that's a great idea, Nathan, and 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:51.179 this links to that thing that you said last week. 00:09:51.340 --> 00:09:55.440 And you're like, what? And it's a completely 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:58.059 different thread, but it's clearly listening 00:09:58.059 --> 00:10:01.840 to you. It's just evolving, isn't it? That was 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:03.899 actually another point that Brian was really 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:06.799 keen on, was making sure we know what our privacy 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:10.899 settings are. And to just go and check them and 00:10:10.899 --> 00:10:12.759 go, am I happy with this? What does this previous 00:10:12.759 --> 00:10:15.860 assessing mean? Am I happy with the way it's 00:10:15.860 --> 00:10:19.240 going to use my, what the implications are for 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:23.679 my conversations? Yeah. Yeah. It's just too easy 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:26.360 to roll with it, isn't it? Before you know, you 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:28.980 end up spilling your life out to your AI buddy. 00:10:29.740 --> 00:10:34.279 Yes. Yes. Then it could hold us to ransom. Hmm. 00:10:35.659 --> 00:10:38.059 I just keep on checking that I'm all right for 00:10:38.059 --> 00:10:40.480 the apocalypse and when the robot uprising happens, 00:10:41.259 --> 00:10:43.980 I'm going to be fine. Yes. Chat GPT is going 00:10:43.980 --> 00:10:45.779 to look after me, so we're all right. That's 00:10:45.779 --> 00:10:47.659 really good to hear. It's very good to hear. 00:10:48.139 --> 00:10:50.919 Yeah. Although I've really been enjoying Gemini 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:53.240 recently. She seems a bit more switched on. I'll 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:56.100 say it's my version of Gemini, isn't she? She 00:10:56.100 --> 00:10:57.580 seems a bit more cleaned up. What do you like 00:10:57.580 --> 00:11:01.919 about Gemini then? Just a bit chattier. It's 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:05.539 awful to say. It seems like a real person and 00:11:05.539 --> 00:11:10.740 it seems to get context a lot better than chat 00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:13.460 and some of the other ones. This chat seems to, 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:16.679 like, get most stuff right but sometimes latches 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:18.559 onto a weird idea and goes off on a tangent. 00:11:19.100 --> 00:11:24.059 Gemini seems really switched on, like, terrifyingly. 00:11:24.059 --> 00:11:27.779 Like, it knows what I'm talking about. And I 00:11:27.779 --> 00:11:29.820 haven't used Gemini that much for it to actually 00:11:29.820 --> 00:11:32.139 build a profile of me. But when I do ask a question, 00:11:32.220 --> 00:11:34.820 I'm like, oh my God, this is really useful. Small 00:11:34.820 --> 00:11:37.940 example, me and my son play a card game that's 00:11:37.940 --> 00:11:41.059 really complicated. And we've started literally 00:11:41.059 --> 00:11:43.720 putting Gemini next to us for when rules come 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:45.700 up that we don't know. We're like, oh, I can't 00:11:45.700 --> 00:11:47.179 say the name out loud because I'm ill -acted 00:11:47.179 --> 00:11:50.450 it now. we ask it what the rule is and it's like 00:11:50.450 --> 00:11:52.210 oh you just do this you just do that and it's 00:11:52.210 --> 00:11:54.309 like oh my god and it just really helps us it's 00:11:54.309 --> 00:11:56.169 like having like a little tutor in the room with 00:11:56.169 --> 00:11:58.909 us which is brilliant it works really well for 00:11:58.909 --> 00:12:00.450 the purpose of us playing that game and having 00:12:00.450 --> 00:12:02.830 a good time well that sounds good that sort of 00:12:02.830 --> 00:12:05.529 use because that's completely anonymous you're 00:12:05.529 --> 00:12:08.769 not not really sharing any private information 00:12:08.769 --> 00:12:11.269 or anything no that's true it's functional isn't 00:12:11.269 --> 00:12:13.250 it it works and that is a really good use of 00:12:13.250 --> 00:12:16.340 it it's Is it laziness though? Like before we'd 00:12:16.340 --> 00:12:18.000 have to sit and read the rules and understand 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:20.279 them ourselves, whereas now we just rely on the 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:22.500 AI to just say, this is this and this is exactly 00:12:22.500 --> 00:12:24.500 that. But it is brilliant because it keeps everything 00:12:24.500 --> 00:12:28.879 quick -paced and the game goes on. I think it 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:32.080 sounds efficient, not lazy. Good, good. Yes. 00:12:32.139 --> 00:12:42.750 Makes me feel better about it. Yeah. So how about 00:12:42.750 --> 00:12:43.909 your family history? It sounds like you've been 00:12:43.909 --> 00:12:46.350 far too busy to do any family history. Well, 00:12:46.429 --> 00:12:47.750 you'd think that, wouldn't you? Because you've 00:12:47.750 --> 00:12:52.570 been doing real family. I have, but I did say 00:12:52.570 --> 00:12:54.669 I was going to carry on with my aeroplane theme 00:12:54.669 --> 00:12:59.590 and look at my great -granduncle, who has this 00:12:59.590 --> 00:13:02.590 story about having worked on the Concorde. I 00:13:02.590 --> 00:13:05.190 haven't followed up on that at all. I was going 00:13:05.190 --> 00:13:08.029 to, and then my mum went away and saw my great 00:13:08.029 --> 00:13:11.559 -auntie, who's not... any relation to that side 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:13.899 of the family at all but they were talking about 00:13:13.899 --> 00:13:15.919 obviously family history because obviously my 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:17.679 mum's interested because i keep going on about 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:23.799 it and it turned out that my another great grand 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:27.100 uncle also worked on the english electric lightning 00:13:27.100 --> 00:13:32.279 but this guy was like super i can't describe 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:34.240 him i don't know what he did exactly but he was 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:37.669 like hyper intelligent He worked on, like, the 00:13:37.669 --> 00:13:39.789 probably, like, designs and schematics, I'm guessing. 00:13:40.110 --> 00:13:42.250 I literally, he once came over to see me when 00:13:42.250 --> 00:13:43.970 I'd moved house and I was like, oh, I need to 00:13:43.970 --> 00:13:47.309 put a wardrobe in or some shelving unit up. And 00:13:47.309 --> 00:13:50.429 he just literally grabbed a piece of paper and, 00:13:50.470 --> 00:13:53.769 like, started doing some algebra and drew me 00:13:53.769 --> 00:13:55.750 this calculation to build a perfect shelving 00:13:55.750 --> 00:14:00.029 unit in this space. Like, it was crazy. He was, 00:14:00.110 --> 00:14:02.190 like, hyper -intelligent. But apparently he's 00:14:02.190 --> 00:14:04.750 worked on lots of quote -unquote... secret projects 00:14:04.750 --> 00:14:07.269 that i'm not allowed to know about but i think 00:14:07.269 --> 00:14:09.230 he like developed he worked on like the wind 00:14:09.230 --> 00:14:11.769 turbines you know the engines for the big electric 00:14:11.769 --> 00:14:15.830 wind farm things he worked on that anyway i'm 00:14:15.830 --> 00:14:18.110 prattling on now but basically i was like oh 00:14:18.110 --> 00:14:19.610 my god this is too much there's too much stuff 00:14:19.610 --> 00:14:22.590 i want to know it's all a bit tangential and 00:14:22.590 --> 00:14:24.809 i want to get back to some proper family history 00:14:24.809 --> 00:14:28.230 so i went back to my tree and i'm trying to do 00:14:28.230 --> 00:14:31.750 some fourth times great grandparents nice yeah 00:14:33.079 --> 00:14:35.639 Yeah, do you know, I really actually enjoyed 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:39.659 it. Despite wanting the stories, it was actually 00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:42.600 nice to just sit in Ancestry and look at some 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.000 documents and get some numbers and facts and 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.820 figures. And it has been a few weeks since I've 00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:50.620 properly done any research of that style. It's 00:14:50.620 --> 00:14:53.480 all been context, local history, blah, blah, 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:56.940 blah. And for the first sort of like half an 00:14:56.940 --> 00:14:59.500 hour, I was terrified. I was like, I've forgotten 00:14:59.500 --> 00:15:02.610 how to do this. Who do I look for? How do I look 00:15:02.610 --> 00:15:05.309 for them? What am I trying to do? My mind was 00:15:05.309 --> 00:15:07.590 blank and I was like, right, OK, take it down 00:15:07.590 --> 00:15:09.429 to basics. How have I worked in the past? So 00:15:09.429 --> 00:15:14.789 I chose John Hearn, who is my fourth time's great 00:15:14.789 --> 00:15:20.049 grandfather. And I had his name. I don't have 00:15:20.049 --> 00:15:22.649 his wife, but he'd appeared on the census, obviously, 00:15:22.690 --> 00:15:26.169 of his children. So that's how he's appeared 00:15:26.169 --> 00:15:28.830 on my tree. So I'm like, right, I need to research 00:15:28.830 --> 00:15:30.889 this guy, find out about his wife, obviously 00:15:30.889 --> 00:15:33.309 try and dig back and get further back with him 00:15:33.309 --> 00:15:36.950 and then maybe hopefully his parents. But I didn't 00:15:36.950 --> 00:15:38.610 know where to start. So I was like, right, I'll 00:15:38.610 --> 00:15:40.610 write everything down. So I literally wrote his 00:15:40.610 --> 00:15:43.309 name down on a piece of paper. What censuses 00:15:43.309 --> 00:15:46.070 do I have information for him for? I'll write 00:15:46.070 --> 00:15:49.470 that down. Who's with him on that census? And 00:15:49.470 --> 00:15:51.450 then just try and work out where he fits because 00:15:51.450 --> 00:15:55.399 you forget when you step away from it. come back 00:15:55.399 --> 00:15:57.399 you're like who is this person I haven't a clue 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:00.720 who they are or maybe you do know them but it's 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:02.620 only because they've been added from a census 00:16:02.620 --> 00:16:05.720 of the child or from a marriage so you actually 00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.320 have no details and no feel and so that was quite 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:10.779 scary at first I was like oh my god how do I 00:16:10.779 --> 00:16:13.519 do this I literally can't remember but the writing 00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:15.259 the listings really helped me so I was like right 00:16:15.259 --> 00:16:17.440 I'll I'll look at his children first and get 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:20.779 a feel for them again see what really like the 00:16:20.779 --> 00:16:23.039 landscape is around them so i'm looking for certain 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:26.220 children's names and etc so if if i start seeing 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:28.980 documents with related names i can get back into 00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:34.120 it so that was really really good but as as i've 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:36.799 mentioned many many times i'm still very scared 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:42.399 of the 1841 and this guy was born in they were 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:45.820 1802 allegedly but i think he might be born in 00:16:45.820 --> 00:16:50.690 1800 and So, yeah, my document options are quite 00:16:50.690 --> 00:16:54.389 limited at the moment. So I've been working with 00:16:54.389 --> 00:16:57.490 little bits that I've got. So I do have him on 00:16:57.490 --> 00:17:00.509 the 1851. I've got lots of questions that are 00:17:00.509 --> 00:17:02.169 coming up as well, actually. This is going to 00:17:02.169 --> 00:17:07.369 be... Be on the spot. Probably. You can make 00:17:07.369 --> 00:17:12.269 stuff up. We know you're good at that. So, yeah, 00:17:12.349 --> 00:17:14.859 I had him on the 1851. With his kids, so that 00:17:14.859 --> 00:17:17.579 was my entry point for him. He was only 1851 00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:20.319 with his children, who I had obviously previously 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:24.079 researched because of one of them being my third 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.859 -time great -grandparent, which I can't remember 00:17:26.859 --> 00:17:29.220 which one it is. Just for context, I'm going 00:17:29.220 --> 00:17:31.140 to just quickly check because I want to know. 00:17:31.940 --> 00:17:35.880 Yeah, so he is the father of David Hearn, who 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.019 I think I might have mentioned in previous podcasts. 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:40.079 David Hearn, you've got loads of them, as far 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.380 as I can recall. I know, I've got three of them 00:17:42.380 --> 00:17:45.789 on the trot. So, yeah, I've got a David Hearn. 00:17:47.650 --> 00:17:50.849 David Hearn was my granddad's dad. And then his 00:17:50.849 --> 00:17:53.089 dad was also called David. And his dad was then 00:17:53.089 --> 00:17:56.490 called David. Thankfully, his dad is now John. 00:17:56.589 --> 00:18:01.990 So I actually have a different name. So the reason 00:18:01.990 --> 00:18:05.450 I thought I'd go down this path is I know in 00:18:05.450 --> 00:18:08.509 my mum's family history trunk, there is somebody 00:18:08.509 --> 00:18:11.029 in the family had done a lot of research on the 00:18:11.029 --> 00:18:13.849 Hearns. I've not dug that out to check it. I 00:18:13.849 --> 00:18:15.650 want to sort of do my own research and then see 00:18:15.650 --> 00:18:18.490 what's in there. But I actually think I've got 00:18:18.490 --> 00:18:21.589 further back than that. So I thought, right, 00:18:21.630 --> 00:18:23.630 OK, it's a good solid path to go on. I didn't 00:18:23.630 --> 00:18:24.950 know where to begin. Again, it's like I've got 00:18:24.950 --> 00:18:27.569 this long list of people. Which fourth time great 00:18:27.569 --> 00:18:29.970 grandparent do I go for? So I thought I've been 00:18:29.970 --> 00:18:32.109 with the Hearns a bit. I'll see if it's easy 00:18:32.109 --> 00:18:36.089 enough for me to get into. So on the 1851, he 00:18:36.089 --> 00:18:41.180 is married. He is 49 years old and he has one, 00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:44.259 two, three, four, five, six children, one girl, 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:49.579 five boys. But the wife is not on the census. 00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:54.200 But it doesn't say widow, it doesn't say divorced, 00:18:54.299 --> 00:18:59.420 it says married. So I need to find her. Lots 00:18:59.420 --> 00:19:03.200 of potential questions there. My initial reaction 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:05.400 is maybe she's, you know, she's having a baby, 00:19:05.539 --> 00:19:11.259 blah, blah, blah. But age -wise, maybe not, because 00:19:11.259 --> 00:19:17.059 she's in her... She's potentially in her late 00:19:17.059 --> 00:19:21.519 30s, early 40s. I guess that could be still happening. 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:25.099 How old are those children on that census? Oh, 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:28.019 you're asking me a question now. The children 00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:33.680 are... Just pressing a few buttons. The children 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:40.660 are 16, 13, 9... Seven, five. Sounds like lottery 00:19:40.660 --> 00:19:47.779 numbers. And one more. Two. Two. Okay. Which 00:19:47.779 --> 00:19:52.799 is the daughter. Okay. I'm cheating a bit now 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:57.500 because I'm saying she's 39 or 38. I know this 00:19:57.500 --> 00:20:03.259 because I go on to the 1861 census and I find 00:20:03.259 --> 00:20:08.460 John with his wife, Elizabeth. who is 50 on that 00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:14.220 census, and he's 60 or 61. And then a couple 00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:16.180 of their children match, and they've got a lodger. 00:20:17.339 --> 00:20:20.339 On the 1861, there's a child called Elijah, who's 00:20:20.339 --> 00:20:25.119 also on the 1851. He's 17 on the 1861, and his 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:28.559 profession is sailor in the Royal Navy. Oh, fantastic. 00:20:29.539 --> 00:20:31.460 He's going to be a new favourite, I think. I'm 00:20:31.460 --> 00:20:33.200 going to have to go do some digging about him. 00:20:33.609 --> 00:20:36.210 You are. What you need to do is go to the Family 00:20:36.210 --> 00:20:39.450 Tree Press Library and Jen Baldwin did a fantastic 00:20:39.450 --> 00:20:44.210 presentation on Royal Navy ancestors, tracing 00:20:44.210 --> 00:20:47.309 them just recently, back in July. So you'll be 00:20:47.309 --> 00:20:49.029 able to find it in there. Yeah, I'm definitely 00:20:49.029 --> 00:20:52.230 going to have to give it a look. I don't really 00:20:52.230 --> 00:20:54.990 know how to research that, but I'm excited by 00:20:54.990 --> 00:20:57.109 the prospect because obviously you've got the 00:20:57.109 --> 00:20:59.349 potential of travel and of war and all sorts, 00:20:59.369 --> 00:21:02.480 don't you? Yes, that's going to be a side quest, 00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:05.460 but I am already excited about it. There's lots 00:21:05.460 --> 00:21:08.339 of lists to his name on my scrawled out piece 00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:13.200 of paper. And where did it go from there? Oh, 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:17.099 yeah, I found John and Elizabeth on the 1871, 00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:22.299 age 71 and 61 respectively. And they've got a 00:21:22.299 --> 00:21:25.180 guy called Edward Cray living with them who's 00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:29.559 a boarder. That's it. So that's it for him. But 00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:32.059 then I feel like I'm going all over the place. 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:34.099 It sounds like I am going all over the place. 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:38.579 I think this sounds good. Yeah. Well, hopefully. 00:21:39.099 --> 00:21:40.900 I haven't mentioned this either yet. They're 00:21:40.900 --> 00:21:43.000 all in Suffolk as well. So all the locations 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:45.539 mean nothing to me. This is not Yorkshire, people. 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:50.079 Wonderful. It's terrifying. Yes. But I've got 00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:52.700 John Herndown has been a rail labourer, which 00:21:52.700 --> 00:21:57.390 is quite cool. He might work on the trains. I 00:21:57.390 --> 00:22:01.190 then went looking for the marriage for John. 00:22:01.789 --> 00:22:07.490 Yeah. And I found a marriage in 1821. Mm -hmm. 00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:10.650 And I haven't made a good note here because I 00:22:10.650 --> 00:22:13.230 don't know why I believe this is correct. I think 00:22:13.230 --> 00:22:15.990 it's because of his parents. Anyway, he married 00:22:15.990 --> 00:22:20.069 some woman called Jane Scopes, who isn't Elizabeth. 00:22:20.230 --> 00:22:23.730 And this is 10 years. This is, well, later on 00:22:23.730 --> 00:22:25.970 I then find... some reference to the Elizabeth 00:22:25.970 --> 00:22:30.150 marriage in 1831, so 10 years later, is Elizabeth. 00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:34.349 So I need to, one, establish if that is actually 00:22:34.349 --> 00:22:38.650 the right marriage to this Jane, and then just 00:22:38.650 --> 00:22:40.250 do all the digging and find out what happened 00:22:40.250 --> 00:22:45.210 to her, if it's the right marriage. Quite amusingly 00:22:45.210 --> 00:22:48.190 as well, the Elizabeth woman, her surname's Thing, 00:22:48.430 --> 00:22:51.900 T -H -I -N -G. No way. Which I've never heard 00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:53.799 anyone with a surname like that. So she's instantly 00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:57.200 a favourite of mine. I like a kooky surname. 00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:02.259 Yes. So in trying to work out her and find out 00:23:02.259 --> 00:23:06.440 where she is, I mean, I haven't got much further 00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:10.319 on this, but I think she was born in 1811 in 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:16.440 Suffolk, Elizabeth. In the 1871 census, the transcript 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:19.960 says she was born in 1830. which I don't know 00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:21.299 where it's pulling that in for, because when 00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:25.259 you actually look at the 1871, it is correctly 00:23:25.259 --> 00:23:27.880 written that she's 61. So I think that must be 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:29.539 a transcript. That was just a question for me 00:23:29.539 --> 00:23:31.819 to question. But it made me go, well, maybe this 00:23:31.819 --> 00:23:34.500 isn't my Elizabeth. But when I actually look 00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:37.460 at the proper document, it says 61, so I don't 00:23:37.460 --> 00:23:41.140 know why it thinks she's 1830. And then the big 00:23:41.140 --> 00:23:43.200 mystery is where is she in 1851? So I need to 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:46.920 find that out. I did also find a reference to 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:51.319 another son. who wasn't on the 1851 called John 00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:54.759 Hearn in brackets I've put junior I think he 00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:58.400 was born in 1831 so obviously if he's well that's 00:23:58.400 --> 00:23:59.700 interesting that's the year they got married 00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:02.559 as well so yeah he would be potentially 20 by 00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:06.720 the 1851 he could have like moved out or died 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:08.839 or whatever so I've got a bit of research to 00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:13.960 do on him I think I found a baptism for him that's 00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:16.789 cool There are lots of little documents kicking 00:24:16.789 --> 00:24:19.769 about. I found baptism records for the actual 00:24:19.769 --> 00:24:22.710 John that I'm looking for. A lot of the censuses 00:24:22.710 --> 00:24:26.589 are suggesting he was born in 1802, 1801, but 00:24:26.589 --> 00:24:30.829 this baptism is in 1800. But again, I'm seeing 00:24:30.829 --> 00:24:34.430 a couple of potential parent names that link 00:24:34.430 --> 00:24:38.369 to then the marriage records. Mm -hmm. I'm not 00:24:38.369 --> 00:24:41.650 100 % sure that they are right, but it feels 00:24:41.650 --> 00:24:43.609 right. I've not put them in my ear tree yet because 00:24:43.609 --> 00:24:47.690 I'm cautious, but it's good. I've really enjoyed 00:24:47.690 --> 00:24:49.589 it, like looking through the actual documents 00:24:49.589 --> 00:24:52.069 again and then having these little mysteries 00:24:52.069 --> 00:24:55.150 that you need to figure out. And it is dates 00:24:55.150 --> 00:24:57.069 and figures and stats and stuff, but it's building 00:24:57.069 --> 00:24:59.250 a nice little picture for me. And I'm excited 00:24:59.250 --> 00:25:02.170 by quite a lot of this. Well, I think you sound 00:25:02.170 --> 00:25:03.589 like you're doing really well. And I completely 00:25:03.589 --> 00:25:05.450 relate. Just the other day, I was just making 00:25:05.450 --> 00:25:07.690 the bed and I was like, oh, I really, really 00:25:07.690 --> 00:25:10.569 miss doing my DNA down and out tree, which I 00:25:10.569 --> 00:25:12.410 haven't done that for a few months now. I can't 00:25:12.410 --> 00:25:14.269 remember when I last did it. And I just really 00:25:14.269 --> 00:25:17.690 wanted to get back to that solid tree building 00:25:17.690 --> 00:25:20.650 feel. So it's funny, isn't it? I think that's 00:25:20.650 --> 00:25:22.529 what's the charm of doing the hobby is you can 00:25:22.529 --> 00:25:24.849 just go, I'm all about the tree building or no, 00:25:24.950 --> 00:25:26.569 I'm all about the local history or I'm all about 00:25:26.569 --> 00:25:28.190 the social context or whatever it is. You can 00:25:28.190 --> 00:25:30.400 just pick and choose and all of it's... valid 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:34.039 research yeah yeah it just feels often it feels 00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:37.019 for me quite tangential though like I guess particularly 00:25:37.019 --> 00:25:39.680 as well on the podcast I'll talk one week about 00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:42.319 aeroplanes and I'm so excited about it and I'm 00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:44.039 like this is what I'm gonna do I'm off to do 00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:46.200 this now and then when it gets down to it I'm 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:48.539 like don't want to do that I want some numbers 00:25:48.539 --> 00:25:51.099 I want to get back in time and but it is nice 00:25:51.099 --> 00:25:52.740 to pick and choose it's just obviously we're 00:25:52.740 --> 00:25:55.079 slightly more accountable because school We'll 00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:57.039 say we're going to go do something and then do 00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:00.720 something completely different. We're accountable, 00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:02.559 but maybe I like to think we're relatable because 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:04.700 I can't believe we're the only people who make 00:26:04.700 --> 00:26:06.480 a to -do list of our family history and then 00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:08.140 go do an entirely different thing with our family 00:26:08.140 --> 00:26:11.279 history. I think we will not be alone. Definitely 00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.700 not. You can't predict it, can you? Because you 00:26:13.700 --> 00:26:16.460 can literally just find one little sniff of a 00:26:16.460 --> 00:26:19.950 clue and then off you go. Yeah. There's some 00:26:19.950 --> 00:26:21.670 impressive people who can stick to their to -do 00:26:21.670 --> 00:26:23.769 list, but if you can't stick to your to -do list, 00:26:23.930 --> 00:26:27.089 then you've got company. I won't say it's good 00:26:27.089 --> 00:26:28.849 company, but you've got company. It's me and 00:26:28.849 --> 00:26:31.609 Nathan, right? The important thing is you enjoy 00:26:31.609 --> 00:26:34.170 yourself before anything else. As long as you're 00:26:34.170 --> 00:26:37.349 having a good time, I think that's the win, isn't 00:26:37.349 --> 00:26:39.849 it? Yes, and also, Nathan, I just love it whenever 00:26:39.849 --> 00:26:42.210 we have these conversations because you've only 00:26:42.210 --> 00:26:45.210 been doing your family history for like 18, 20 00:26:45.210 --> 00:26:47.269 months or whatever. It's not very long at all. 00:26:48.250 --> 00:26:50.230 Already, just when you were just recapping what 00:26:50.230 --> 00:26:51.829 you'd been doing there, you're saying, well, 00:26:51.890 --> 00:26:53.509 when I was picking up my research, I didn't know 00:26:53.509 --> 00:26:55.589 what I was doing. So I wrote a list of what I 00:26:55.589 --> 00:26:57.930 did and I kind of set the scene and gathered 00:26:57.930 --> 00:26:59.710 all the information that I had already to kind 00:26:59.710 --> 00:27:02.329 of get the landscape of that family to find out 00:27:02.329 --> 00:27:06.069 who was what. And so you're just doing really 00:27:06.069 --> 00:27:10.230 efficient, good, thorough things so that enabling 00:27:10.230 --> 00:27:13.150 yourself to pick up that research trail. And 00:27:13.150 --> 00:27:15.349 so you do know exactly what you're doing. And 00:27:15.349 --> 00:27:17.470 then. I think you have got some really interesting 00:27:17.470 --> 00:27:19.789 questions here, like finding out about where 00:27:19.789 --> 00:27:23.450 his absent wife is, where your ancestor Elizabeth 00:27:23.450 --> 00:27:26.029 Thing, or Nay Thing, but Elizabeth Hearn presumably, 00:27:26.089 --> 00:27:31.049 is in 1851 when she's about age 38, 39. So do 00:27:31.049 --> 00:27:32.829 you know what you're going to do to help find 00:27:32.829 --> 00:27:35.029 her? What are you going to do? Oh, now you're 00:27:35.029 --> 00:27:37.569 challenging me. I'll do an actual search because 00:27:37.569 --> 00:27:40.390 I haven't actually done a census search. So I'll 00:27:40.390 --> 00:27:43.029 try to do a census search for that area and her 00:27:43.029 --> 00:27:46.069 name. Or maybe I don't even need to do the area 00:27:46.069 --> 00:27:47.250 because it might be that she's away somewhere. 00:27:47.309 --> 00:27:52.190 I can't know that, can I? So I'll do that. Other 00:27:52.190 --> 00:27:54.069 than that, I don't actually know what I'd do. 00:27:54.750 --> 00:27:57.269 So what I think you should do is a boring thing 00:27:57.269 --> 00:28:00.769 that I always say. Just have a really broad search 00:28:00.769 --> 00:28:04.690 on Elizabeth Hearn aged in her late 30s in the 00:28:04.690 --> 00:28:06.750 1851 because then if there's lots of Elizabeth 00:28:06.750 --> 00:28:08.890 Hearns, then you can be like, meep, meep, meep, 00:28:08.890 --> 00:28:10.329 meep. I need to make sure I'm not going to jump 00:28:10.329 --> 00:28:12.769 to the wrong conclusion of the wrong one. And 00:28:12.769 --> 00:28:14.990 then once you've established... who they are 00:28:14.990 --> 00:28:16.549 because as you say if she's not at home she could 00:28:16.549 --> 00:28:19.529 be anywhere she may have gone back potentially 00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:21.130 if it is back to Yorkshire I don't know where 00:28:21.130 --> 00:28:24.349 she came from she might be a Suffolk girl but 00:28:24.349 --> 00:28:27.009 and then you need from their marriage records 00:28:27.009 --> 00:28:30.170 you need to be trying to build back her parents 00:28:30.170 --> 00:28:33.150 and get her siblings because in case she's gone 00:28:33.150 --> 00:28:35.750 back to family so it could be you know that's 00:28:35.750 --> 00:28:37.490 the kind of really plausible thing why a woman 00:28:37.490 --> 00:28:39.829 would be from home away from home in 1851 she's 00:28:39.829 --> 00:28:42.980 gone back to nurse her elderly parent she's gone 00:28:42.980 --> 00:28:46.240 back to help a sister who is you've been confined 00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:48.740 going into labor or whatever that's that'd be 00:28:48.740 --> 00:28:51.660 my first two hunches and it sounds good she cut 00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:54.880 in hospital some in some crest herself yeah i 00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:59.319 mean she had a child two years prior so she was 00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:03.019 still obviously sexually active um i don't know 00:29:03.019 --> 00:29:07.119 why i laughed and so that is an option she could 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:09.539 she could have had a kid but obviously 10 years 00:29:09.539 --> 00:29:14.000 later, there's no new children there. So who 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:17.400 knows? I'd love this part of the family history 00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:20.480 aspect, though. In trying to answer one mystery 00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:24.180 about her, I need to find out more about her 00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:26.079 than her family. It just expands and expands, 00:29:26.299 --> 00:29:28.119 doesn't it? It's like, oh, my God, this becomes 00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:30.319 such a big task, but then it fleshes out your 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.400 tree so much. It's cool. It does. And also, I 00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:36.039 think... The thing that you described, all the 00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:38.740 information you found, and you kind of feel fairly 00:29:38.740 --> 00:29:41.859 certain of lots of it, but you just, as you say, 00:29:41.980 --> 00:29:43.480 you aren't quite certain enough to add it on 00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:45.299 your tree. That's what it feels like to me, is 00:29:45.299 --> 00:29:48.160 literally like I'm building a kind of wall, but 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:50.019 walls are often quite a negative thing. But you 00:29:50.019 --> 00:29:51.519 have to keep going. You can't just build a great 00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:53.740 big tower of information. You have to keep going 00:29:53.740 --> 00:29:56.599 round, building it up, and it all helps to secure, 00:29:56.700 --> 00:29:58.380 all the information latches onto the information 00:29:58.380 --> 00:30:00.819 next to it and helps to secure it. And you gradually 00:30:00.819 --> 00:30:06.119 build up the tree, don't you? Yeah, just gives 00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:09.339 it some good foundations, all the facts. Yeah. 00:30:10.099 --> 00:30:13.839 Yeah, it's good. How do you feel about John being 00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:17.039 a rail labourer? So that's really interesting 00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:20.039 that he, I don't want to take you off away from 00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:22.339 your tree building, but so he's in Suffolk and 00:30:22.339 --> 00:30:27.319 he's a rail labourer. And so moving with being 00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:30.140 a labourer or a navvy, things like that is such 00:30:30.140 --> 00:30:32.619 a plausible reason for moving with your work, 00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:36.059 isn't it? Right. So that's just interesting to 00:30:36.059 --> 00:30:38.960 know. Yeah. From everything I've seen, these 00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:42.200 guys seem quite Suffolk -centric. Again, bad 00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:45.960 research note -taking. I feel Elizabeth... Oh, 00:30:46.019 --> 00:30:47.559 no, it's on the census. She was born in Suffolk. 00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:52.299 Elizabeth is Suffolk, born and bred. And then 00:30:52.299 --> 00:30:56.759 John, on that 1851, he's down as a rail labourer 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:01.180 and he's 49. Hmm. In 1861, he's just down as 00:31:01.180 --> 00:31:04.220 an agricultural labourer, so he's had a job change 00:31:04.220 --> 00:31:07.640 or a change of pace, but obviously he'd be 59 00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:11.099 at that point. Sorry, you did mention Elizabeth 00:31:11.099 --> 00:31:12.859 was born in Suffolk. I forgot that. So where 00:31:12.859 --> 00:31:19.359 was John born then? Yes. John was born... I don't 00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:23.819 know. I think he was born in Suffolk. Let me 00:31:23.819 --> 00:31:27.690 share my screen with you. Yes. I can't read it. 00:31:28.170 --> 00:31:33.490 You're on the screen. Sorry. Let me have a go 00:31:33.490 --> 00:31:35.930 at it. I think it might say stuff. It's just 00:31:35.930 --> 00:31:38.930 written really weirdly right. Hang about. Dunhern. 00:31:39.309 --> 00:31:43.069 Oh, not known. Is that what that means? Oh, an 00:31:43.069 --> 00:31:46.430 N and a K. Oh, wow. I never would have got that. 00:31:46.509 --> 00:31:49.049 What about the other censuses you have for him? 00:31:50.150 --> 00:31:53.710 Yes, let's have a look at that. Not known. Before 00:31:53.710 --> 00:31:57.250 you hop away from this, this is fantastic. So 00:31:57.250 --> 00:32:00.470 you have John, his wife is absent. His first 00:32:00.470 --> 00:32:05.809 child, David, is born in West. Can't read it. 00:32:05.930 --> 00:32:08.869 Someone who's from Suffolk. That says Suffolk. 00:32:08.869 --> 00:32:10.569 Yeah, Suffolk. And then it says West something. 00:32:10.710 --> 00:32:12.670 West greeting. It doesn't. It says Stowmarket. 00:32:13.109 --> 00:32:15.990 Oh, Stowmarket. Oh, do you know what? I might 00:32:15.990 --> 00:32:18.170 be wrong. No, it doesn't say Stowmarket. West 00:32:18.170 --> 00:32:21.559 greeting. West. Whereas creeting or greeting, 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.700 somebody will know. And then he's got another 00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:26.920 child born in the same location because it's 00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:29.779 saying ditto, ditto, ditto. Another child born 00:32:29.779 --> 00:32:34.519 in... That one says store market, I think. No, 00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:37.680 it doesn't. It says store something. Look, store 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:40.500 place. Yes. Then down at the bottom, there's 00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:43.710 a store market. Emma's store market, yeah. So 00:32:43.710 --> 00:32:46.109 what we can do is work out properly what these 00:32:46.109 --> 00:32:48.950 places read in slow time, but then you are getting 00:32:48.950 --> 00:32:51.450 a little map of how the family moved around, 00:32:51.589 --> 00:32:55.509 which is interesting if he's being a railway 00:32:55.509 --> 00:32:57.569 labourer, because then you can see, was there 00:32:57.569 --> 00:33:00.170 any railways being built around those times when 00:33:00.170 --> 00:33:01.710 those kids were born there? That would just be 00:33:01.710 --> 00:33:03.829 fun to see, because that's tracking the family 00:33:03.829 --> 00:33:06.750 between the census years, isn't it? So let's 00:33:06.750 --> 00:33:09.049 have a look at the next census, 61, and see if 00:33:09.049 --> 00:33:11.829 we can find John's birthplace there. It's interesting 00:33:11.829 --> 00:33:13.769 that there's two places with Stowe at the start 00:33:13.769 --> 00:33:17.009 of them. Yes. I don't know why I decided to latch... 00:33:17.009 --> 00:33:18.990 Oh, because the census is from Stowe Market. 00:33:19.069 --> 00:33:20.710 That's why I've decided to latch on to that. 00:33:21.970 --> 00:33:30.049 Naughty Nathan. 1861. Ooh. No, we can read it 00:33:30.049 --> 00:33:33.369 because also it says it on the transcript. That 00:33:33.369 --> 00:33:36.470 says Stoneham Aspel. And I love Aspel cider. 00:33:36.670 --> 00:33:39.890 I wonder if that is a Suffolk cider. Oh, interesting. 00:33:40.410 --> 00:33:43.150 I thought about that before. But it's my favourite 00:33:43.150 --> 00:33:47.730 cider. It's just perfect. Ideal for a hot day. 00:33:48.109 --> 00:33:50.230 It is. Quite strong as well, though. It goes 00:33:50.230 --> 00:33:51.430 straight to my head. It's quite strong, but it 00:33:51.430 --> 00:33:53.609 has very small bubbles and it's quite sherbet 00:33:53.609 --> 00:33:58.609 -y. It's very good. I like it. Getting distracted 00:33:58.609 --> 00:34:02.170 by the thoughts of cider. Right. So his wife 00:34:02.170 --> 00:34:05.289 is a present and she's 50 years old in this one. 00:34:06.019 --> 00:34:07.980 Brilliant. And you've got her birthplace there, 00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:10.940 Stowe Market. Stowe Market. And then it's got 00:34:10.940 --> 00:34:14.579 that other Stowe thing. Oh, Stowe Upland. Right. 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:17.699 So one of their children aboard is Stowe Upland. 00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:22.119 Yeah. Ours was Elijah, who is a sailor in the 00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:26.539 Royal Navy. He was Stowe Upland. Brilliant. So 00:34:26.539 --> 00:34:29.320 I think that'd be fun, particularly to say Suffolk 00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:32.119 geography is a bit unfamiliar to you. I haven't 00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:37.079 a clue. You had a map. ideally a map from, you 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:38.760 could get a modern map, but ideally a map from 00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:42.739 the 50s, 60s, across all those places. Ideally 00:34:42.739 --> 00:34:45.679 even a map, you know, as early as you can, and 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:47.940 then see if you can see railways appearing on 00:34:47.940 --> 00:34:49.679 the map. That'd be really fun. You could get 00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:54.019 a map from like the 18, I don't know, 30s or 00:34:54.019 --> 00:34:56.579 30s or something, and then see what railway lines 00:34:56.579 --> 00:35:01.280 start appearing all over the area, the era and 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:03.969 area that they're living in. Yeah. Yeah, that 00:35:03.969 --> 00:35:06.610 sounds cool. So many projects. Nathan, you're 00:35:06.610 --> 00:35:07.969 going to have loads and loads of fun. I can't 00:35:07.969 --> 00:35:10.489 wait to hear what you report back to us next 00:35:10.489 --> 00:35:14.150 week. Yeah, probably that I'm just looking into 00:35:14.150 --> 00:35:17.110 aeroplanes. Well, speaking of aeroplanes, can 00:35:17.110 --> 00:35:19.030 I quickly give a shout out to a lovely podcast 00:35:19.030 --> 00:35:22.969 listener? Of course. So let me zoom over to the 00:35:22.969 --> 00:35:27.730 podcast file. And so Kerr is a wonderful family 00:35:27.730 --> 00:35:31.230 tree. I'm a reader, I'm a Jewish member. He's 00:35:31.230 --> 00:35:35.309 a completely dedicated family historian and he 00:35:35.309 --> 00:35:39.510 writes. So listening to the podcasts and hearing 00:35:39.510 --> 00:35:42.690 Nathan talking about his granddad working on 00:35:42.690 --> 00:35:45.429 the English electric fighter jet brought back 00:35:45.429 --> 00:35:49.329 some lovely memories. That was in his teens when 00:35:49.329 --> 00:35:52.349 the plane broke records for speed rate of climb 00:35:52.349 --> 00:35:56.980 and ceiling. Roland Beaumont, born in 1958, hit 00:35:56.980 --> 00:36:01.119 Mach 2, 1 ,320 miles an hour at 40 ,000 feet. 00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:05.179 Kerr was 12 years old at the time, with his observer's 00:36:05.179 --> 00:36:08.679 book of aircraft well -thumbed. Airfix followed 00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:12.119 in 1963 with a 1 over 72 scale model which he 00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:14.679 bought and built and proudly displayed on his 00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:17.460 bookcase. He's never seen one flying, but he 00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:20.719 came close. When he was working at RAF Bruggen 00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:23.760 in Germany for a year in 1992 for technical support 00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:26.639 for a weapon upgrade, he saw one parked outside 00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:29.639 a hangar near the runway. The plane, though the 00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:32.039 English electric fighter jet, had developed a 00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:34.659 problem and had to land at RAF Bruggen. He approached 00:36:34.659 --> 00:36:36.920 one of the ground engineers and inquired about 00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:39.699 it, and the ground engineer promised, with a 00:36:39.699 --> 00:36:42.039 bribe of some beers, to let me know when it was 00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:45.559 due to fly off. Anyway, off it took. No message. 00:36:45.980 --> 00:36:48.760 No beers and Kara was completely gutted. There 00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:50.500 isn't that exciting. And then he goes on to talk 00:36:50.500 --> 00:36:53.300 about other Airfix models he's built. So amongst 00:36:53.300 --> 00:36:55.460 a few others, he built a Blackburn Buccaneer. 00:36:56.059 --> 00:37:00.079 And then he talks about another methyl inch model 00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:03.219 that he had of a four inch methyl of a lightning, 00:37:03.340 --> 00:37:05.340 I think. Anyway, so he talks about all the other 00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:07.929 things that he has. his other kind of interests 00:37:07.929 --> 00:37:10.369 in aircraft. So it's a bit like you. It's not 00:37:10.369 --> 00:37:12.349 just, it's just, I love it, isn't it? Because 00:37:12.349 --> 00:37:13.889 you were like, as soon as you heard the thing, 00:37:13.949 --> 00:37:15.329 you're like, I need to get the Airfix models. 00:37:15.869 --> 00:37:19.289 No, it's the same. Learn about the plane, observe 00:37:19.289 --> 00:37:21.869 it in my observer plane spotting book, make the 00:37:21.869 --> 00:37:25.349 model. Yeah, so close to seeing the thing in 00:37:25.349 --> 00:37:28.369 real life, see it flying. That's cool. Really 00:37:28.369 --> 00:37:30.110 cool, isn't it? It's a great set of memories, 00:37:30.190 --> 00:37:32.630 yeah. Yeah, so like a whole lifelong interest 00:37:32.630 --> 00:37:35.070 in being a young lad spotting them to actually 00:37:35.070 --> 00:37:37.250 working. And that's a little brighter than that 00:37:37.250 --> 00:37:39.250 as well. Incredible. Yeah, that's brilliant. 00:37:39.650 --> 00:37:42.530 Yeah. So thanks, Kerr, for sharing those happy 00:37:42.530 --> 00:37:44.630 memories. And I bet there were so many more Airfix 00:37:44.630 --> 00:37:46.289 models. So I didn't actually make any Airfix 00:37:46.289 --> 00:37:48.590 models, but I had a brother. I still have a brother. 00:37:48.690 --> 00:37:50.630 And he was obsessed with baking. And he used 00:37:50.630 --> 00:37:52.409 to suspend them all on bits of string from the 00:37:52.409 --> 00:37:53.949 ceiling. Don't know how he got them to stay up 00:37:53.949 --> 00:37:55.469 there. My dad must have put in nails or something 00:37:55.469 --> 00:37:58.989 like that. And it was like this. Yeah. Not like, 00:37:59.190 --> 00:38:02.030 I suggest, being over his bed. Nice and relaxing. 00:38:03.750 --> 00:38:05.449 I think we all did that. I used to hang mine 00:38:05.449 --> 00:38:10.070 from my lampshade. Yeah. It's some like fishing 00:38:10.070 --> 00:38:12.349 wire or whatever it is, the invisible stuff. 00:38:13.210 --> 00:38:15.570 Yes. You used to put bits of cotton wool painted 00:38:15.570 --> 00:38:17.869 red sticking out of planes to make it look like 00:38:17.869 --> 00:38:20.849 they were on fire and about to crash land. Oh, 00:38:20.869 --> 00:38:23.369 wow. No, I didn't do that, no. That was quite 00:38:23.369 --> 00:38:28.400 dramatic. Quite dramatic, isn't it? Yeah. Anyway, 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:29.980 thank you so much for sharing your memories, 00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:31.960 Kurt. And thanks to everybody as well for listening 00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:34.800 along today. We look forward to you tuning in 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:37.860 next week. Good luck, Nathan. Thank you. Happy 00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:39.800 researching, guys. Bye.