Hello everybody and welcome to Family Tree Talk,
your favourite family history podcast. I'm your
co -host Nathan and with me as always is... Helen
Dovey. Hi Helen, you alright? I'm very, very
well, yes. How are you? I'm alright. I'm in lots
of pain. Pain? I've been doing lots of stupid
exercises. It's my own fault. I'm an idiot. But...
It's the two day later pain. You think you've
survived the pain. You're a fit person. And then
two days later, you get wrecked by the stupid
activity of jumping on blocks and stupid things
like that. Oh, hello. I'm going to squat. Why
am I squatting? I don't know. There's no real
reason for it. Anyway, rant over. If you hear
me groaning throughout the podcast, just know
it's pain. Okay. Okay, I understand. At least
it's not family history pain, that's good. I've
got plenty of family history pain. Have you?
Yeah, well, not really, just mysteries, which
is good. Yes. So, should we talk about your mysteries
first, or should we talk about some really cool
podcast listeners? Oh, yes, yes, podcast listener,
please, yes. I like the listener. Well, there's
two listeners, in fact, who've written in with
really cool things, so I'm just going to share
them now, okay? So we do absolutely love getting
emails and things from podcast listeners. It
tends to be emails, which I think is really interesting.
There's something about emails, which is kind
of a mixture between old and new, isn't it? Because
you can, it's easy to type. You can do a great
big email. You can attach documents easily, everything.
So we've got Karen and Liz have both emailed
in. I'll do Liz first because it's a little bit
quicker. So Liz has been doing family history
for almost 25 years. And she says she's almost
embarrassed to admit that she's never kept a
formal research log. Gasp. But... When she goes
on to explain what she does, I'm like, Liz, you're
fine. Honestly, totally fine. So she says, though
she's never found it a problem not keeping a
log, because what she does do is keep a record
of everything she's done and what she needs to
do next, which by my book, that's a research
log. That's just logging your research. So Liz,
no need to feel embarrassed. You should feel
super proud of yourself that you're actually
writing it down. That's the main thing which
me and Nathan want to try and drum into each
other's heads is just write it down in some way.
recorded in some way, don't you reckon? Yeah,
she's doing better than we are, I think, already.
I think she's doing miles better than us, yes.
And so she started her family history because
she wanted to know some of her ancestors' stories.
So she's always written them up as she goes along.
She gets better and better, doesn't she? Yeah?
You feel a bit sick, to be honest. I know, I
feel very jealous. If this was a video, we'd
see that me and Nathan have slightly green with
envy faces. Anyway, and then Liz does go on to
kind of... comfort us a little and she says she
hastens to add that her family history isn't
all written up just some of it's written up as
a chronological brain dump or some of it is just
a chronological brain dump of census records
images of birth certificates newspapers etc but
she has done some stories and she has logged
what she does and she has saved all those documents
so i'm like check check check you're doing amazing
me liz that sounds awesome yeah really well done
i must confess one of the things i've done this
week is my genealogy journal But I was actually
writing an apology to myself in the journal for
not writing in the journal like I said I was
going to. Isn't that sad? At least I've finally
gone back to it. Well, I don't think it's sad.
I think one of your descendants in the future,
they'll find that so touching, your conscientious
nature. They'll like it. Yeah, but missing all
the information that I've been doing. Shall I
just finish off with Liz the genealogy whiz's
last bit of stuff that she does because it is
so good and so useful. Please do. Yes. So she
does also record the things that she's checked
and failed to find in an appendix at the end.
And that is such a good idea to record what you
don't find so that you don't, in a few months
down the line or a few years down the line, go
and repeat those steps. Yeah. And having all
of her records in the way that she does works
for her because she doesn't have to keep switching
between documents to access her to -do list.
And she always has a separate document for specific
archives because then if she realises that she
needs a document, she can add it to the list
for that archive so that her research list for
the archive is always ready to go. So there are
so many good ideas just in this couple of paragraphs
that Liz has written. I'm going to recap. So
what Liz does is she records everything that
she does and she also records what she needs
to do next. Brilliant. She also keeps a copy
of all of the documents that she finds, saves
those down or pastes them into a Word document.
She also records a list of things that she's
checked and failed to find and puts them in an
appendix at the end of her Word document. And
then she also has a separate document for each
archive that she comes across that she's going
to want to visit in the future. And she adds
the document that she wants to view when she
goes to the archive to that list. So that when
she goes to pay a visit to the archive, she just
has that document ready to go. And she knows
just what she's doing with her precious archive
time. Liz, round of applause. That's just fantastic
on every front. Yeah, that's really meticulous.
That's amazing. Yes, we're so proud of you. And
it's so inspirational. Yes, making me feel like
a bad lad. Well, we just need to be inspired
by Liz, I think. We do. Yeah. Some really good
tips there, though. Yes. She also had loads of
other tips about she's been using AI. She finds
it really good. She's been checking it out and
comparing and contrasting with her own work and
with what Google Gemini can do for her. And she's
found that it's very, very similar. quality rate
to hers which judged by her quality rate is going
to be good and so she feels confident using it
and that's a really good idea and Karen Evans
mentioned this in her course recently to try
out websites whether they're using the AI whether
you're using AI functionality or whether you're
just searching if you search for things that
you know when you first come across a new database
or if you try out AI tools with things that you
already know the answers to just to kind of get
the lie of the land and understand can you get
a feeling like you know is this behaving in a
to a level of accuracy that i feel confident
in using it is it is it providing you what i
would expect it to provide in terms of search
results what's missing so you can kind of use
your experience to help ascertain how good and
how effective a new tool is to you i think that's
a really good idea from karen evans yeah definitely
that goes back to what i was doing last week
with my robin hood prince of thieves quoting
why is that then nathan Quoting film quotes and
then seeing which AI knew what I was talking
about. Yes, yes, that is exactly it. It does
do that. Yeah, mine was just stupid and just
for fun, but it's the same principle. It is the
same principle, definitely. Before we move away
from our little postbag, should we talk about
Karen from Western Australia as well? Yeah. Okay,
so nugget alert, Karen has a Tankman ancestor
too. Ooh, not the same one though. Not the same
one, but a very cool one. So actually, it was
Karen's dad. So Karen writes, please tell Nathan
that my dad was a tank man. He was in the British
Army in the early 1960s and was a tank driver.
And he was stationed in Berlin when the Berlin
Wall went up. Wow. Now, fortunately, Karen's
sister studied history and English at university
and interviewed their dad. about his life for
an assignment. And so she interviewed her dad
about 20 years ago, not long before he died.
And that's just, it's just so precious, these
interview things. So I'm just going to read a
little bit about it. So this is just a typed
up document, but how precious to have these little
insights. So Karen's sister said to her dad,
you were stationed in Germany when the Berlin
Wall went up. What was the general reaction to
that? And so Karen and her sister's dad writes,
the barbed wire went up on the Saturday night.
And there was all sorts of information coming
in on the radio, but no one did anything until
the Monday. It was a very slow reaction initially,
because no one realised just how serious it was.
Once they did, we were all put on alert and all
the tanks had to be made ready for immediate
use. We were stationed at a massive NATO garrison
at a place called Hohner, and there were also
Americans, French and Germans. They were all
ready for war, but we'd stripped our tanks down
for an inspection that week, so didn't have any
tanks on the road. No one had been expecting
anything like that to happen. Wow. It's so cool,
isn't it? Those personal insights of, you know,
her dad's, what it was actually like to be the
tank man there and your tank stripped down and
you think you might need to be preparing for
war and you're feeling very unprepared. It's
just astonishing. Yeah, that's an amazing insight,
isn't it? Because obviously you can read about
it in the history books, but you're not going
to get that on the front line response. That's
cool. It's very cool. I'm going to skip through
the rest of Karen's wonderful email. doing the
highlights. So honestly, she's so many amazing
things. So she listened to one of our podcast
episodes in which we talked about creating a
playlist of, say, top 20 songs that defined our
lives. And she's busy doing this and she's going
to share it with her husband and kids. And she's
also going to pop a copy in her will. So that
will definitely be a tearjerker, hopefully not
for many, many decades to come. But that's such
a sweet and precious idea. She's also been in
a wonderful rabbit hole, which includes Weaving
in Lewis Carroll, which I think is just pretty
perfect kind of rabbit hole situation because
he's the designer of the rabbit hole, wasn't
he, with Alice in Wonderland. Nice spot on. Yes.
So anyway, a few years ago, she visited England
and coincidence or serendipity, last year, Karen
and her sister were visiting England and they
met up with a relative who drove them around
Runcorn, where their mum is from. And the relative
took them to lunch in a lovely pub in Daresbury.
And the pub was across the road from All Saints
Church. And on his recommendation, we went to
have a look inside the church as it commemorates
Lewis Carroll, who was born in the vicarage.
And you can see his Alice in Wonderland characters
in a stained glass window. At the weekend recently,
Karen decided to do another search for the marriage
of her three times great grandparents, Daniel
and Elizabeth, that she'd never managed to find.
She tried different search techniques and finally
found it. And guess where they were married?
In All Saints Church, Daresbury. And she goes
on to say that she kind of actually thinks they
were closer and closer connections. interweavings
between the fact she's been finding the Lewis
Carroll family. It's just astonishing. So it's
a rabbit hole from the master of rabbit holes,
which I think is extra, extra cool. That sounds
brilliant. And there's more. One last thing.
So in one of our other podcasts, because Karen
Bleser is wading her way through all our past
podcasts, back catalogue, she says she's even
put all her other usual podcasts on hold while
she gets up to date. So that's great effort,
Karen. So we mentioned about the disability column
in the census. And she also has found relations
who have been recorded as being identified as
deaf and dumb, to use the kind of parlance of
the day, in that disability column on the census.
And then subsequent research she did, she found
them getting married in a church. And the church
was, the marriage ceremony was completely conducted
in sign language, which is amazing because it
was like in the mid -Victorian period, which
I think, yes, fantastic. great to think of something
you know disability being catered for in such
a you know in such important part of somebody's
life all those years ago because sometimes we
can look back at our ancestors and maybe be a
little judgmental i think they were quite harsh
which they were but clearly um for her ancestors
marriage it was dealt with in a really you know
decent and respectful way and and the marriage
marriage ceremony was It's actually in sign language.
The newspaper coverage said how moving it was
having this silent service. I bet it was. I bet
it was really moving. Yeah. Yeah. That is good
forward thinking. Oh, so many things to think
about. It's lovely. Lovely to hear about as well.
It is. And it just shows like how many different
weaving things. So just for two podcast listeners
there, I have all about some of these research
notes, the stories they found, the living memories
from recent times, the coincidences from... centuries
past insights into disability and marriage ceremonies
from 150 years ago. That's why we love family
history because it's just, it's literally, you
kind of open the lid and you just don't know
what you're going to discover and think about.
Yeah, you don't know where it's going to take
you. I'm very jealous of the Lewis Carroll thing.
I'm a little bit obsessed with Alice in Wonderland.
Are you? Well, maybe if you keep digging, you're
going to find a connection. I'll keep digging
and I'll keep trying. Maybe. Maybe. You never
know. So how's your research been going, then?
It's gone okay -ish. I'm sort of still in a very
similar position to where I always have been
in the last couple of weeks, but... I did a bit
more research on Farsley Airfield for the aeroplane.
It feels really tangential now. So anyway, quick
recap. My granddad worked at a factory that created,
oh, I thought created the aeroplane, the English
Electric Lightning. And he didn't go to war because
he was building warplanes. So that's taken me
to find out that there's actually an airfield
in Farsley near where this factory was. But actually,
as it turns out, that airfield had actually shut
down before this factory was even functioning.
So it's like it's an interesting bit of local
history, but it's not actually currently related
to what I was actually researching. So the airfield
in Farsley actually only operated between 1916
and 1917. And actually, there's like a plaque,
a memorial about it on the school that now occupies
the space where it used to be. So I'm quite happy
that I found that out. I couldn't find it on
any of the maps because there wasn't a map for
that time period on National Archives Scotland.
Is that right? National Library of Scotland.
National Library of Scotland. Yeah. So there
wasn't actually a map for that time period. But
I've since found further information out. And
like I said, there is a plaque at the school.
So that's cool. Found that out. So it's not really
quite related to my granddad's airplane stuff.
But like I say, good bit of interest in local
history. It's quite cool to think there's an
airfield nearby. Where did I go from that? After
that, I have decided to stay in the aeroplane
zone and look for this Concorde thing that my
mum's mentioned. So my mum mentioned that her
uncle, let me just double check this fact. Is
it her uncle or is it her great uncle? He's my
great grand uncle. Anyway, my great grand uncle
allegedly worked on the Concorde. So I thought,
right, I'm in this aviation mode. I love aeroplanes.
I'll go research this. This guy was born in 1903
and died in 1974. So there's not very much stuff
on Ancestry about him. He's obviously in a couple
of censuses. He's on the 1939. And then there's
a few bits and bats about his baptism, a few
little bits about voting. And the only reference
I can get... for his occupation, is on the 1939.
And he's down as a painter and decorator, which
does not sound like he works on the Concorde.
So I'm a little bit stuck. It's like, the question
I guess I've got is, how do I find out more about
something that's not an ancestry, where I've
got no other information? I don't have any living
contacts to give me any more details. I have
knacked my mum about it, and she said... Because
I was like, are you sure about this? It just
says he's a painter and decorator. And she was
like, oh, yeah, he was a painter and decorator,
but he fell off a ladder and had to stop doing
it. And then she said he worked for Avro up in
Eden. So I guess I need to do a bit of research
into Avro and what they did. But he's just then
tying all this to him. I don't know how I'm going
to do that when there don't appear to be any
files about him. How do I do that? That's a really
good question. So I think you're, I think, a
two -pronged... would be good. One, finding out
about Avro, finding out what years they were
active near the area where he was living. And
you could use electoral rolls to find out where
he's living. You can track him fairly regularly
between the 1939 and his death in 1974. Yep,
that's right. And you might have to go to...
a local archive to do that but you could do that
so you can track where is this guy living is
he living near Avro and then you can find out
what Avro's up to and then you can do broader
Avro history to find out are they working on
the Concord during the period where he's living
there because then If they're not, you can start
ruling things out. If they're working on concourses
in an entirely different part of the country
to where he's living, this is looking increasingly
unlikely. So do that on the one hand. And then
on the other hand, I don't know that you've got
his death certificate and what people quite often
do on death certificates because they're not
recording their own detail about their death.
You can write your own will, but you don't write
your own death certificate. So the detail which
gets put in the occupation. is written down on
the whole by loyal and loving relations obviously
it's not always the case is it because some of
these people have lost touch with their family
sometimes they're not maybe loved by their family
but on the whole people are writing down their
loved ones occupation details and so inevitably
you're going to write down the heyday aren't
you you're not going to write down latterly did
some terrible part -time job that they could
only get for two hours a week, you're going to
write down what they did for the lion's share
of their working life, like that they're in their
heyday. Yeah. And I think we have people who've
been promoted by their relations on their death
certificate. So they never actually did the job,
which is on their death certificate, but they
did something in that line of work, but their
relations have given them like a rosy glow promotion
just for the death certificate, which is confusing
and misleading. But anyway, this death certificate,
I would. hazard a guess that if your great -granduncle
had worked in some capacity on the Concorde,
especially with him dying in 1974, then the Concorde
had such kind of cachet, didn't it? It was fantastic.
My mum would get kind of almost tears in her
eyes talking about the Concorde back when I was
a kid in the 70s. People were so excited about
it. So I think the loving relations would put
that on the death certificate. Cool. That'll
be good to find out. So that's what I would do
to start with. And then another third prong,
which kind of goes back to the first prong, is
see what company publications there might be,
because it's going to be a big enough company.
It could have a staff newspaper, slightly more
informal staff records rather than actual archives
of staff employment records. I mean, you could
try and track down those as well, but even just
the journals saying about the monthly football
match and all that sort of stuff. It can be helpful,
which you don't always get, but it's worth looking
out for, particularly with a big company. And
the last thing you could try is the newspapers.
Right. Find my past then. Yeah, find my past.
And you could be just looking to learn about
Avro generally. And you could do, once you've
established more about Avro, you can start weaving
in his surname and see if you can get any results,
which may be named that there was a Avro versus
something else football match. you know yeah
and it's getting published in the local paper
and you're like yes so you never know what there's
david annal always says this you're not necessarily
In an ideal world, you'd find his employment
records saying he's employed from here to there
as a blah, blah, blah. But if you're not going
to find that, there's other ways you can still
get clues. So this would be an example of Dave
saying you might not find the employment record,
but you can find evidence of employment. So in
that newspaper with him playing in the football
match, which we're really hoping you find, but
we have no idea whether that exists or ever happened.
But if it did. That would be evidence that he
was employed by Avro during the time period in
which Avro was building Concord in the place
where he lived. And you're like, okay, these
are really warm leads. This is all adding up.
You can confidently go down the pub and go, yes,
he worked on the Concord. Yeah. Okay, cool. In
some capacity. Yeah, that's some good starting
points. I know where he lived because I've actually
been to his house. His wife lived till like 98,
so I actually saw her quite a bit as a child.
Again, nobody told me the aeroplane stories until
I didn't have the opportunity to talk to her
about it. And obviously as a kid, I probably
wouldn't have talked to her about it. But this
is my lesson for everybody. Go talk to your relatives.
Yeah. Okay, I'll explore that further. Yeah,
that'd be really fun. And it's one of those things
like this, I think probably definitely happens
to me. And I'm sure it happens to everyone else.
Sometimes when you do the things that I've told
you, it's all very well in. theory to go so I've
given you a set of theoretical steps to try haven't
I sometimes they work sometimes they don't work
but in the course of trying them out you will
definitely become better at doing family history
when we reconvene next week you'll say i tried
out this and i tried out that this didn't work
because and that didn't work because this was
available and that wasn't available and all that
goes into your little toolbox of information
about doing family history research so it's never
a waste of time even if you don't get the answers
as well i'm trying to say this to encourage you
from the start it's a good research experience
isn't it it definitely is yeah pushes my boundaries
a bit and sometimes you might hit a brick wall
literally and you can't go any further but at
least you've tried so Because obviously it's
not vital for me to find this one out and it's
not on my direct line, but it's the story that
interests me more than necessarily being useful
for my travelling back in time. Do you know,
I'm going to have to do a plug for two things
because they're both entirely useful and totally
on topic to what you've been talking about. So
one of them, in August, at the beginning of August,
on the 4th of August, then... carol mcculloch
is doing a four -week course and it's how to
use ai to help work on your family history brick
walls and the thing about ai obviously people
some people love it some people hate it some
people are ambivalent but when you're using it
for brick walls then you're not necessarily what
you're doing is you're using it as a research
partner and so you're using it to help brainstorm
a problem so your problem is you're trying to
ascertain whether your great -granddad could
work for the Concorde. So even just putting that
in and the details that you do have about him,
obviously he's not a living person, so you can
safely share that information in AI. AI will
come up with a really cool research plan for
you. And I've tried this a few times, well, pretty
much every time. It'll come up with record collections
or ideas of research steps that I have never,
ever thought of. And I very begrudgingly think,
okay, that was useful, thank you. But it is useful,
yeah? Carol's course is going to be super helpful
and that could really help you work on complex
problems where you're feeling like you may be
running into the sand with what to do or even
if you just haven't got a clue where to start
because a brick wall if you don't know what to
do next and any of us whatever level we are with
our family history if you don't know what to
do next it feels like a brick wall doesn't it
because you're pumped yeah so that's what kind
of defines a brick wall is that you don't know
what your next step needs to be. And then the
other thing to plug is you're talking about stories.
So in September, then Jada Helstein is doing
a four -week course to help us all record our
own life stories, to not miss out that chapter.
And I guess inevitably, our life stories includes
the life stories of the people who we have lived
with and remember. So for instance, our parents,
siblings, aunties and uncles, doesn't it? They
massively... impact our life so you're going
to weave in bits of that anyway so with yeah
this course this is very very exciting this one
i'm mentioning now as well is we've built this
beautiful little time capsule so it's a little
cardboard box and it's got all sorts of things
in there to help you gather little treasures
and clues and make a roadmap to your precious
things that you have around your house photo
albums favorite books favorite records whatever
it is and you want to say why they matter to
you what they mean to you why they're precious
and potentially who you'd like have these things
after you because you know you'll have maybe
a child who we particularly bond with on one
thing whether it's a love of sewing or a love
of a particular band or whatever it is and so
they'd be the natural person to bequeath your
sewing things or your record collection wouldn't
they so anyways all of this sort of stuff so
it's a really it's going to be quite a poignant
course but it's also going to be I've done it
with Jana before. We did it as a test to see
whether it works. It does work. So I did cry.
I did laugh. I did learn masses about myself.
I cannot encourage people strongly enough to
do it. It's just like such a worthwhile activity
that you won't regret. Lovely. Yeah. Bit of self
-reflection in there as well. It is because it
helps us lead better lives, doesn't it? We just
stop hurtling around. Just focus on what's really,
really important and try and do that. That sounds
good. Really good, yes. So how's your family
history going then? Well, my family history is
going quite badly. I have been all about the
work this week because I've been trying to get
organised before I go on holiday and... I have
been having a really fun time with work, I have
to say, but it has been busy. So Karen recently
did a course and it was about the kind of main
paying for websites. And on there, she mentioned
about the Find My Past workspaces. And I was
like, why have I not been using these? And I
think I did start using them when they first
brought them out and then I forgot about them.
Anyway, so on the workspaces, let's say this
would be ideal for you, Nathan, going to Find
My Past, you're searching in there to get all
this Avro information for your great granduncle.
and you're not quite sure what to do with it
yet, then you can just make clips of the relevant
bits of newspapers, create a workspace, which
is just literally like a little, it looks like,
I guess, like a little board or a folder. And
you can just save everything in there so that,
you know, when you're always torn between that
thing, like got to record it now, in the flow,
don't want to stop what I'm doing. And it solves
that problem because it means really quickly.
It says on the screen, like clip and save, all
those sort of words. You just click what you
want, chuck it in the folder. So you can do all
your kind of mad gathering of. that you don't
possibly want to overlook or lose or not find
again, shuffle them in this folder and you've
got them really handy. That's good. So you can
get all your potential contenders in one place
and then whittle them down and cross -reference.
Definitely. Definitely. And then otherwise, I've
just been working on the magazine because what
does a podcast, we do a lovely magazine, don't
we? We do. Yes. And that's been quite a read
this month. Yeah? Like, it's... loads of really
good skills articles and tools like Donna Rutherford
she's done this amazing guide to DNA tools which
is just worth buying the magazine just to get
that if you think right I want to get cracking
with using DNA tools and then Karen Cummings
has got a really good article which is covering
the steps that you need to do to kind of keep
organized and keep confident that you're doing
it right so if you just read her article did
what she said You will be doing it right. And
then also some really tough things. So there's
an article by a genealogist called Nicola Waterfall,
and it's about a baby who suffers an injury in
the care, whilst in the care of definitely its
mother, maybe its parents. Nothing seems to get
done about it at the time, which with a modern
pair of eyes feels very unsettling, to say the
least. And then where it gets even more... troubling
is the baby gets or as a little child gets put
into the care of the local poor law unions and
then the poor law unions when the baby's dad
dies the poor two different poor laws unions
have a battle like i don't want to pay for the
baby or child i don't want to pay for it and
this goes on and on for years which is just heartbreaking
that everyone is trying not to care for this
child yeah so distressing we had to put a content
warning on it Because I feel like I don't want
someone just to be having a lovely read, bumbling
through family tree with a cup of coffee. And
then this sort of happens in family history,
doesn't it? Sometimes you come across things
that you have no idea are going to happen next.
And it's, I kind of feel like when you do know
it's going to happen next, you need to warn people
it's happening. So we put a warning on it, but
it's really insightful article. Yeah. Wow. That
sounds quite harrowing. I had something similar.
Again, looking at this, this William Allen. it's
not as dramatic as what you're saying but it
is that thing where you suddenly get emotionally
involved and it's like this William Allen was
the child of my favorite George Horatio Nelson
and Maggie Nelson and in the 1911 census he's
there with George but George is a widow and he's
only eight years old and instantly I'm just like
oh my god this is heartbreaking it's And I knew
about this, but you forget, and then you're doing
your research. And then as soon as I saw that
census, I was like, oh, my God, this poor kid.
And you just get lost in that sort of emotion,
don't you? Yeah. You definitely do. What's funny
is because people always say, oh, family history
isn't just names and dates and things like that.
Whereas when you look at the census document,
if you're not looking at your family. Or let's
say if you just look at the facts and you go,
there's George and he's whatever occupation and
he's this age and he's a male and he's married
or widowed and he was born here. Then you read
the next line and you can read it and just gather
the data. Or you can stop and go, wait, he said
George was a widow. Oh, my God. And there he
is with five little kids. And suddenly you only
have to stop yourself. for literally one second
and not just to treat it as a fact. And suddenly
you're into the story, aren't you? Yeah. It's
very involving. But that's why we like it as
well. It is. I'm just really irritated the fact
that I actually, this sounds daft, but the fact
that I actually knew my Auntie Mildred, who was
my great -grand -auntie, I was a stone's throw
away from knowing things about... George Horatio
Nelson because she was married to his son only
obviously years ago I didn't know that nor did
I care and now it's like oh my god I could have
actually found like texture and details and stories
and now I'm relying on two generations down to
tell me stuff like she doesn't have a clue about.
We've got to just be not boring but we've got
to have the confidence just to keep banging on
about things to anyone younger like My children
or grandchildren or nieces or nephews, all of
them cousins who are younger than us, because
like I've got grandchildren, but my great granny
died when I was 22. So I can tell them heaps
about their three times great granny. It's like
masses. And obviously she was an old lady when
I was born. I never knew her other than being
a really old lady. It's still cool, though. And
I could actually tell them stories which she
told me about her grandparents. So suddenly it's
like they're five times great grandparents. Yeah,
that's brilliant. Crazy, though, isn't it? Travelling
through time. Yes. Yes. So talk to your relatives,
people. Yes. Talk to your relatives. Record things.
Don't worry about it being perfect. Perfect is
such a pain. Yeah. I'm very against perfect because
you think. Oh, I can't write it well enough.
I can't capture their voice. Oh, I'm going to
get a new phone soon. I'll make those recordings
when I've got a new phone. Oh, all these reasons.
And then we don't do it. Or you don't want to
butt in or whatever. Or we go, I'm going to record
it. It's not going to be perfect. It's on my
old phone. Or I'm not very good at writing, but
I'm going to jot down to the best of my ability
what I can do. And it will be precious. You won't
have any regrets about doing it. no no regrets
at all yes so I'm going on a family holiday soon
and I have been thinking that I definitely want
to do this and I kind of think I want to do all
generations not just like obviously the older
generations are the natural ones to talk to for
lots of reasons partly because they know things
way back when that we don't know about so we
do want to catch a bear But then also just capturing
really young people's memories is cool. When
my kids were little, when they were four and
five, I did their first family history interview.
And it's cool. Yeah. What did you do then? Well,
I'd say I just bought a book. So the Society
of Geologists used to run this show at the Royal
Horticultural Society in London. So I went there
and there was a bookstore and they had some books.
which was basically to help you interview your
kid, get them to do family history. But it would
have all sorts of lovely questions in, like what's
your favourite subject, what's your favourite
colour, all little things, get them to say things
about their relations, who do they know, what
are they called, everything else. So my kids
filled it in with their great big baby handwriting,
and you know that their favourite thing is sausage
and their favourite subject is maths, which is
kind of silly, but it's kind of adorable. Already
it's a quarter of a century old now, so it's
precious. Yeah, that's brilliant. One of my friends
does something similar. He asks his kids every
single year the same question. Oh, yeah. And
then posts the answer. So obviously as they grow
older, I can't remember what the question is,
unfortunately, but the answers change because
obviously you're seeing the education and them
learning and then getting into life a bit more.
So it evolves with them a bit. So it shows you
how their thinking has changed, which is quite
cool. I didn't do it with my kids, or I should
have done. It's really good for that, for capturing
time capsule things, isn't it? Like you see people
who take a photo of their kids in the same position
every year. Yeah. And if you do it for two or
three years, it's nice. And once you've done
it for 18 years, it's really precious. Yeah.
It's that consistency factor. So I need to think
of a cool question then that I can ask everybody
on holiday and record all of their things. Yeah,
definitely. And get a range of... Have a peek
at some views and see how they differ. I was
talking to one of my daughters recently and I
read this word, which apologies if I pronounced
it wrong. And it's, I think I did tell you about
this, the ikigai thing. So it's a Japanese word.
It's I -K -I -G -A -I. And it means basically
your reason for being. What's the thing that
gets you out of bed in the morning that makes
you... Whatever the weather, whatever you're
feeling like, whatever else you've got to do
that day. What's the thing where you, which if
you get to do this thing, you feel really, really
happy. And so we were just, my daughter and I
were wandering along and her two little kids
who are three and one were in the pushchair.
And we were just chatting about what our icky
guy thing was. And then the little three -year
-old piped up, because you know how kids earwiggy
when you don't know. And he goes, mine's painting.
And I was like, oh, brilliant. So I've got to,
maybe that could be my question. What gets you
out of bed in the morning? Yeah, because we would
love to know that about our ancestors. Imagine
if you knew all your ancestors, icky guy. Yeah,
and that is timeless as well because there is
something for everyone there. There's a constant
context, isn't there, for everybody? Yes, yes.
That's cool. It's very, very cool, isn't it?
I had a family history win the other day. It's
a rubbish one, but I still kind of did a little
mini fist bump. My eldest son texted me and he
was like... what's the name of that aeroplane
that your granddad used to work on? So I text
him the answer and he just went, cool, thanks.
But the fact that he'd actually listened to my
story of me telling him about this, for me, was
the big win. Because you're like, does he actually
ever listen to me? Does he take in anything I
ever say? And yeah, he texted me and asked me
about it, so I was thrilled that he'd actually
heard. Absolutely. It is literally, it's brought
tears to my eyes. That is the best feeling when
somebody actually, especially when there's somebody
younger than you in your family, asks you about
it. You're just like, yes. I just love it. I
literally, I'm just like, perfect. Couldn't think
of anything better. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't an
involved conversation after. No. Yeah. But at
least it clocked something about it. Yes. Yeah.
Micas do that. Not very often. Maybe once or
twice a year, they'll just ask for something.
They'll say. Can you send over all the pictures
of the baby girls born in the 1920s? Or can you
send over pictures of... It's not really the
pictures, actually. Pictures of all the people
in the military or the dogs or whatever. Yeah.
And I always feel delighted. And I drop whatever
I'm doing. I just immediately stop what I'm doing
and do it without... Because I don't want to
miss the moment. No. I'm guilty of being the
other way sometimes, I have to say. Obviously,
I'm very into this now. I'm doing my family history
research. I'm getting into the texture a bit
more. But I know if I ask my mum a question,
there's the potential of her just getting the
laser focus on and just going off on one and
giving me too much. So sometimes I restrain myself
from actually asking the questions, which is
a bit bad, a bit naughty. But I guess that's
all about timing, isn't it? And making sure I've
got the right time in my... I can't just casually
walk past and say, I'm just researching this.
Because if I say that to her, she'll be like,
I don't have time to talk to you right now. Holding
those thoughts. Yes. I think that's a really
important thing you've just said there because
it completely contradicts what we said a few
minutes ago. And the thing is, none of us know
what's going to happen next. We all kind of think,
I'm going to do it tomorrow. Yeah. It's more
that thing of where I'm in the moment of doing
something. or I'd have 20 other things to do
it is I am guilty of this but yeah you do need
to factor some time to say yes I will sit down
but it's that thing where my mum is delighted
that I'm doing it because she's obviously got
an interest in it and she will want to sit down
and just go through it all but then she will
take me off on massive tangents as well um and
if I'm trying to be focused on that one particular
thing I can't take that information in yes dedicated
time to actually talk to her is a good idea I
think it really is and it's It's partly none
of us know what's going to happen next. Maybe
I don't try to sound depressing, but we literally
don't know what's going to happen next. But partly
it's good to record things while people remember
things, because all of us will have the thing
that you have some of the stories which you kind
of can trot out and they'll almost be verbatim.
This happened and that happened. It's like the
world told family stories. But there are other
aspects of our memories that let's say you've.
said something to your mum and it's triggered
a memory and she's recalled it. But then there's
every possibility that you go, hold that thought,
mum, and you'll come back to her even 10 minutes
later and she'll go, I can't remember now. And
she's not trying to be annoying, but we all have
the thing where something completely slips your
mind and that door's shut again until it accidentally
gets opened again. So partly our memories could
be very sketchy. Partly also, if you ask somebody
about something several times. There's every
chance, unless they do have the tried and trusted
story that they keep on whapping out, that you're
going to find different aspects to that story,
which all are going to add, as you always say,
context and richness and all that stuff. So having
the same conversation lots of times isn't even
a bad thing. That's a really valuable thing if
you've got that luxury of contact and time and
stuff like that. And then also, I've definitely
found this with relationships. It's kind of easier
to ask them when they're hale and hearty because
once they start getting ill, I find the subtext
of like, you haven't got long, I find that really
stressful and I don't like to think about it
and I don't want to make them think I'm thinking
about it. And so suddenly I find it really hard
to ask them the questions and the people so far
in my life haven't been my immediate close family.
Yeah. both my parents actually are alive and
well so I've always been I've kind of felt like
that's not really my place to ask there's always
been like closer people who should ask or could
ask so it's really hard once you get to that
kind of section of people's life I think I find
it hard but it's it's even more important and
then the last bit is of clearly like we don't
all have the luxury our memory doesn't necessarily
stay until the end of our lifespan does it like
that can leave us before we get to the end of
our lifespan so it's even more important and
precious how can i do another plug nathan because
we're all about being useful it's not even i'm
not trying to do plugs but we're genuinely doing
such useful stuff so in september then it's part
of family tree plus we've got a talk and then
there's another one in october and they're by
two genealogists and more genealogists jude rhodes
and the other expert who will be presenting with
her as rick voight and they're Both of them are
about how family history can be used in the care
of older people, particularly people with dementia.
So the idea is if you gather their memories before
the dementia gets too advanced, then you can
use their memories to help improve the quality
of their life and the quality of the care that
you can give them because you can talk to them
and converse with them. and take them to a place
in their memory that they are more confident
and knowledgeable. And so they can have a really
nice experience talking about things way back
when, when perhaps their more recent memory is
a real challenge for them. But anyway, we've
got those two talks coming up in September or
October. Cool. That sounds good. I have to say
like I do, I do like, as much as I keep saying,
well, I've just said I don't always like to set
my mum off because I might not have time to log
it. When I do. i know she's gonna go sit and
think about it and then she then like she'll
phone my auntie up and then get my uncle on the
phone and they sit and have a conversation about
it so it becomes it goes beyond what i'm doing
for my research there then just having a merry
old chat and like being nostalgic about the past
and all sorts of things are coming up that they'd
all forgotten but then start sharing and it just
it's nice i like to think that it's just you
know it's creating a new level of conversation
for them it's cool It is. And that again is a
quality of life thing because sometimes our daily
lives, sometimes aspects of them can be really
boring or lonely or stressful or depressing.
All of those things, just all of our ordinary
lives can easily have those things in them. Whereas
family history and happy memories is a super
escape, isn't it? It is, yeah. Nice bit of nostalgia.
And it's amazing what you can forget as well.
Like I was saying last week about forgetting
that my granddad really loved snooker. It's such
a small detail, but it was a big part of his
character. And it's like, I don't really have
many people to talk about that or reflect about
that. But the whole thing about researching the
aeroplanes brought that up as well. It's just
one thing leads to another and you develop the
characters. It's cool. It's cool. I keep saying
that. I made a list of things I often say on
a podcast after conversations recently. I think
we should have a bingo. Anytime I say definitely,
sweaty, terrified, that's cool, it's cool, oh
boy, or whatever. You get 10 points every time
I say one of those. And 20 points anytime Helen
says yes as a question. Is that what I do? Yes.
Goodness. Oh, crikey. Okay, I'll try and work
up what my... I'm so busy listening to you that
I don't even know what I'm saying, if you know
what I mean. I just... I'm just thinking about
what we're thinking about, not thinking about
the words I'm using, if that makes sense. I'm
breaking the fourth wall. Yes, and I'm trying
not to do some of my, where I talk off the top
of my head and go, I'm fairly sure this is factual,
but I wouldn't want to put much more than a fiver
on it. They're my favourite bits. Don't do this
to yourself, Helen. But I'm gonna. Yes. Well,
well. We've got a lot to do, haven't we? So you've
got your Concord, Project Concord. Yes, I'm looking
forward to that. I kind of, like I said last
week, I want to sort of get through this and
put a stop to it and then get on with a bit more
digging into the past. But obviously I love aeroplanes,
so I am enjoying this. But this feels like a
slightly different project to my grandad because
it's close so I can talk to people that knew
him. So it's going to be a good little challenge,
like you said earlier, a good research challenge,
enhance my skills, even if I don't find anything.
a little bit of a history digging project but
after this week I think I want to stop doing
that and then get back to more solid family tree
stuff yeah yeah you know I've been really missing
my down and out tree I was thinking about the
other day I was tidying my bedroom thinking oh
I'm really missing not doing that I haven't done
any of that for weeks now I've been flapping
around in other things. And the download art
tree is the same as what you're talking about.
It's just tree building. It's just looking for
information and sticking the details on your
tree, finding people, not trying not to go into
too much depth, just literally getting enough
information that you're confident they definitely
are a relation. On they go. It's kind of really
orderly. Yeah, satisfying and neat. Yes, it is.
Yes, yes. Okay, so I'm going to be doing my holiday
questions. And you're doing Project Concord and
we shall reconvene soon. Indeed. Yes. And thank
you very much to anybody for listening and especially
thank you for anybody who wrote in with their
really, really cool emails. Just fun and impressive.
Showing the value of recording things and the
value of stories and all of it. All of it. And
we love hearing from people as well. It's great.
Nice to know that we're sharing this journey
with others. Definitely. Till next week then.
Bye bye. Happy researching. Thank you.