WEBVTT 00:00:05.930 --> 00:00:08.830 So welcome to Family Tree Talk, your favourite 00:00:08.830 --> 00:00:11.570 family history podcast. And with me today is 00:00:11.570 --> 00:00:15.570 Nathan Ward, as usual. Hello there. And my name 00:00:15.570 --> 00:00:18.070 is Helen Tovey, a fellow co -host. And we have 00:00:18.070 --> 00:00:20.050 a very special guest with us. So do you know 00:00:20.050 --> 00:00:22.750 who this is, Nathan? I don't know. Please introduce 00:00:22.750 --> 00:00:25.859 me. So it's Jana Halstein. So if you're into 00:00:25.859 --> 00:00:28.019 DNA, you may well have come across her because 00:00:28.019 --> 00:00:31.879 she is a guru at DNA and genealogy. But also 00:00:31.879 --> 00:00:33.880 she has something which I would say is probably 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:37.299 even closer to her heart than DNA. Is that possible, 00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:42.100 Jana? I have to admit, yeah. It's hard for me 00:00:42.100 --> 00:00:46.240 to admit, but yeah. So I've been so excited over 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:48.399 the past few months. Well, even back to way back 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:51.020 last year and over the past few years, chatting 00:00:51.020 --> 00:00:53.560 to Yana about this. So she came up with a project 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:55.679 called Genealogy for Our Descendants, which completely 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:57.960 turns it on its head because there's so much 00:00:57.960 --> 00:00:59.600 about looking back to the past where she's all 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:01.640 about using genealogy to look to the future. 00:01:01.700 --> 00:01:03.219 So you like a bit of sci -fi, don't you, Nathan? 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:06.599 I love sci -fi, yes. Yes. So this is where we 00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:08.620 even kind of weave into that kind of actually 00:01:08.620 --> 00:01:10.260 thinking about the future and what does all the 00:01:10.260 --> 00:01:12.500 stuff that we do today as genealogists, what's 00:01:12.500 --> 00:01:14.620 the point of it? What are we doing it for? And 00:01:14.620 --> 00:01:18.540 so this is what has been Yana's brain, kind of 00:01:18.540 --> 00:01:20.280 your brainchild, hasn't it? Your brain baby. 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:22.239 And you've been thinking about it so deeply. 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:28.299 Yes, it has. It has been consuming, I have to 00:01:28.299 --> 00:01:32.480 say. And DNA, I still do DNA, but that was kind 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:38.500 of, it stands next to it now. Because I think, 00:01:38.500 --> 00:01:41.959 so with genealogy, we use lots of tools, lots 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:44.540 of skills. We work incredibly hard. We're dedicated. 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:47.540 We're finding out lots of information. But it's 00:01:47.540 --> 00:01:49.939 not a data gathering exercise by any means at 00:01:49.939 --> 00:01:52.980 all. It means something really close to us, doesn't 00:01:52.980 --> 00:01:56.140 it? And when we're thinking about doing our family 00:01:56.140 --> 00:01:58.000 history, quite often, Nathan and I have this 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:01.159 conversation often, we are... finding these facts. 00:02:01.340 --> 00:02:03.260 And what we're always trying to do is fill in 00:02:03.260 --> 00:02:05.340 the story between the facts. And this is where 00:02:05.340 --> 00:02:08.120 you come in with what you intend for us to leave 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:11.419 for our descendants. And just to say, we mean 00:02:11.419 --> 00:02:14.340 the term descendants really broadly because we've 00:02:14.340 --> 00:02:18.219 all got aunties and uncles in our families, family 00:02:18.219 --> 00:02:20.819 friends who mean a huge amount to us and our 00:02:20.819 --> 00:02:22.520 lives wouldn't be the same without them. So we 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:24.979 don't just mean like your literal direct line 00:02:24.979 --> 00:02:27.659 pedigree chart descendants. We mean the future, 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:30.310 the people of the future, don't we? Exactly. 00:02:30.669 --> 00:02:36.789 I think it all started when I dove into my grandmother 00:02:36.789 --> 00:02:41.310 and there were a couple of more people, but mainly 00:02:41.310 --> 00:02:43.969 it started with my grandmother a few years ago. 00:02:44.189 --> 00:02:48.569 She passed away over 20 years ago. And I realized 00:02:48.569 --> 00:02:50.849 that with all the information that I gathered, 00:02:50.949 --> 00:02:56.110 I have so many sort of like black holes. And 00:02:56.110 --> 00:03:00.009 it's not the data, it's... What was she feeling? 00:03:00.650 --> 00:03:04.530 What did she think? How did she overcome this 00:03:04.530 --> 00:03:08.490 or the other challenge? She had a loss of, she 00:03:08.490 --> 00:03:11.650 lost her baby, her baby girl when she was one 00:03:11.650 --> 00:03:15.210 year old. I had a loss between my two boys. How 00:03:15.210 --> 00:03:19.569 did she deal with that? And I felt like I was 00:03:19.569 --> 00:03:25.129 so frustrated. And then it was like a moment 00:03:25.129 --> 00:03:31.939 of a eureka. And I started thinking, OK, I cannot 00:03:31.939 --> 00:03:36.580 do anything about the missing parts of my grandmother's 00:03:36.580 --> 00:03:39.419 life. And I have quite a few people that are 00:03:39.419 --> 00:03:42.759 still that at the time was still alive. And even 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:46.759 they could not fill in the gaps. So I said, OK, 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:49.800 there's nothing I can do about her. But what 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:58.330 can I do for my next three, four, ten? 50 generations. 00:03:58.590 --> 00:04:02.669 What am I leaving and who will they know? Will 00:04:02.669 --> 00:04:06.930 they know me? Because I have lots of things on 00:04:06.930 --> 00:04:10.629 social media, but is that truly me? And that 00:04:10.629 --> 00:04:14.129 kind of started this whole thing rolling and 00:04:14.129 --> 00:04:18.370 realizing that it's not the big things. It's 00:04:18.370 --> 00:04:22.610 not the big stuff. It's the daily things. I would 00:04:22.610 --> 00:04:28.839 love to have known what the... day in my grandmother's 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:32.920 life was like when she was 19, when she was 20. 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:36.959 And that's something I will never get, but I 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:40.459 can leave that if I record it, if I document 00:04:40.459 --> 00:04:45.259 it, if I, you know, put my mind to it. This is 00:04:45.259 --> 00:04:48.779 a treasure that I can give for future generations 00:04:48.779 --> 00:04:52.600 and making sure they know the real me and not 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:54.720 just the stories that other people will tell 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:57.579 about me. What do you think about that, Nathan? 00:04:57.879 --> 00:04:59.839 Well, I can relate to that a lot, can't I? Last 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:02.800 week I was talking about my granddad and I was 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:04.560 talking about my family tree in general and how 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:08.339 doing the research for like the later, for the 00:05:08.339 --> 00:05:10.360 further back generations, you get more documents 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:12.220 to look at because obviously they're available. 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:15.379 Whereas my granddad, he doesn't hit any censuses. 00:05:15.899 --> 00:05:19.040 So there's very few documents about him. And 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:21.420 I've only got like two or three relatives alive 00:05:21.420 --> 00:05:23.800 who actually know actual real stories about him. 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:26.279 So there's just a massive blank as to who this 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:29.079 guy is. And it's just piecing information together 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:32.439 from my mum and my dad and from my auntie and 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:34.980 my uncle. And then my mum's got this trunk with 00:05:34.980 --> 00:05:38.019 a few little bits and bats. And a couple of weeks 00:05:38.019 --> 00:05:41.279 ago, I found out that my grandad, through Helen's 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:42.699 probing, because she asked what he did in the 00:05:42.699 --> 00:05:44.439 war, and I didn't know. So I was like, right, 00:05:44.500 --> 00:05:46.660 I need to go find this out. I didn't think he 00:05:46.660 --> 00:05:50.500 went to war. And he didn't. And then when I asked 00:05:50.500 --> 00:05:52.480 my mum, it turns out that he actually worked 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:54.399 for an electrical company building aeroplanes 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:57.100 for the war. And it's a story that I'd never 00:05:57.100 --> 00:05:59.220 heard before. Nobody ever mentioned it. And it's 00:05:59.220 --> 00:06:01.620 like suddenly made me think, wow, I absolutely 00:06:01.620 --> 00:06:03.959 know nothing about this guy other than he was 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:05.740 the guy that gave me a tizer every Saturday whilst 00:06:05.740 --> 00:06:07.980 watching horse racing. You know, there were no 00:06:07.980 --> 00:06:09.779 blanks to fill in for me because I just didn't 00:06:09.779 --> 00:06:13.040 know anything. It's weird. It's sad and scary, 00:06:13.259 --> 00:06:15.540 isn't it? How quickly the things can get lost. 00:06:15.939 --> 00:06:18.480 Sorry, Yana. Now, what I was saying is, think 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:22.899 about how much you can leave for your future, 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:24.980 you know, for the future generations. Just the 00:06:24.980 --> 00:06:28.339 daily stuff. Just, I mean, one of the things 00:06:28.339 --> 00:06:32.420 that I encourage people to do is a day in my 00:06:32.420 --> 00:06:35.639 life. Just walk around with a recorder. If you 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:38.879 are too shy for a camera, that's fine. Just record 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:41.420 yourself throughout the day. What are you doing? 00:06:42.569 --> 00:06:46.170 I'm talking about the smallest stuff. Do you 00:06:46.170 --> 00:06:48.350 make coffee? Do you prepare your coffee in the 00:06:48.350 --> 00:06:51.230 morning? Like, what does it sound like? What 00:06:51.230 --> 00:06:53.629 does it feel like to have your first cup of coffee 00:06:53.629 --> 00:06:58.790 in the morning? That's how mundane, and I'm doing 00:06:58.790 --> 00:07:02.610 air quotes, mundane, it sounds, it feels like 00:07:02.610 --> 00:07:07.649 mundane to us. But think about what your feelings 00:07:07.649 --> 00:07:11.230 would be like if you could hear your grandfather's 00:07:11.230 --> 00:07:14.889 voice. telling you what a day in his life looked 00:07:14.889 --> 00:07:18.649 like, how he woke up in the morning, the work 00:07:18.649 --> 00:07:22.009 that he went to do, the frustrations that he 00:07:22.009 --> 00:07:27.610 felt, sadness, joy, anger, anything. Can you 00:07:27.610 --> 00:07:29.410 imagine how precious that would have been for 00:07:29.410 --> 00:07:32.329 you? It's interesting, isn't it? This is slightly 00:07:32.329 --> 00:07:34.649 tangential, but I had a friend who died recently. 00:07:35.870 --> 00:07:37.470 we have lots of small things that we used to 00:07:37.470 --> 00:07:39.170 do together and one of them was like doing Rubik's 00:07:39.170 --> 00:07:41.290 cubes and things like that. And it's such a small 00:07:41.290 --> 00:07:42.870 incidental thing, but every now and again I'll 00:07:42.870 --> 00:07:45.269 do a cube and I want to talk to him about it 00:07:45.269 --> 00:07:47.870 and I can't because he's not here. But equally, 00:07:47.949 --> 00:07:49.870 it's become a part of the fabric of who I am. 00:07:49.949 --> 00:07:51.829 But if I don't tell somebody that I do that, 00:07:52.009 --> 00:07:54.449 then nobody will know that Nathan likes to sit 00:07:54.449 --> 00:07:55.970 around doing cubes for hours and getting really 00:07:55.970 --> 00:07:58.589 frustrated. So yeah, it's good, isn't it, to 00:07:58.589 --> 00:07:59.889 pull all those details together because you just 00:07:59.889 --> 00:08:01.750 don't think about them. They're such small incidental 00:08:01.750 --> 00:08:03.449 things, but they are the fabric of who you are. 00:08:03.990 --> 00:08:06.819 Exactly. Because I think that so many things 00:08:06.819 --> 00:08:12.339 have become just norm, regular things that we 00:08:12.339 --> 00:08:17.519 do without thinking. And my whole idea is that 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:22.379 record that. If you have a Rubik's Cube, just 00:08:22.379 --> 00:08:27.379 have one, not necessarily maybe the one that 00:08:27.379 --> 00:08:31.259 you keep on playing with, but just have one with 00:08:31.259 --> 00:08:34.929 a note. Or a piece of paper that tells the story. 00:08:35.429 --> 00:08:38.070 And then you're telling the story of two people. 00:08:38.210 --> 00:08:41.009 You're telling the story of you. And you're telling 00:08:41.009 --> 00:08:45.929 the story of your friend. And for now, this is 00:08:45.929 --> 00:08:49.029 kind of keeping your friend alive. But then one 00:08:49.029 --> 00:08:51.909 day you'll be gone. It's like I'm saying one 00:08:51.909 --> 00:08:55.990 day we will be the ancestors. And what a beautiful 00:08:55.990 --> 00:09:00.009 story that would be for people in 100 years that 00:09:00.009 --> 00:09:02.809 will find this Rubik's Cube and find the story 00:09:02.809 --> 00:09:07.789 next to it. And you will become a person. You 00:09:07.789 --> 00:09:12.389 will come alive again and not just a name in 00:09:12.389 --> 00:09:15.870 the tree. Yeah, that sounds great. We're always 00:09:15.870 --> 00:09:17.210 talking about it, me and Helen. We're always 00:09:17.210 --> 00:09:19.529 looking for the stories because as much as it's 00:09:19.529 --> 00:09:21.210 good getting back generation after generation. 00:09:22.029 --> 00:09:23.929 It is just a name and a date at the end of the 00:09:23.929 --> 00:09:25.850 day. If you don't have any texture, it's a bit 00:09:25.850 --> 00:09:29.879 flat, isn't it? On the one hand, these are the 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:31.639 experiences, and I love the fact that these little 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:33.720 daily experiences and these shared memories, 00:09:33.779 --> 00:09:35.340 they are really meaningful, aren't they? And 00:09:35.340 --> 00:09:38.039 they shed a lot of light on the wider world of 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:40.460 how we socialise with each other, like you socialising 00:09:40.460 --> 00:09:43.899 with your dear friend Nathan. When you said about 00:09:43.899 --> 00:09:45.659 a cup of tea, my mum would say when she was at 00:09:45.659 --> 00:09:49.120 work in the 1960s, in the morning, a lady would 00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:50.600 come round with a trolley and they would have 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:52.980 a cup of coffee and a biscuit. In the afternoon, 00:09:53.299 --> 00:09:55.480 the same lady would come round with a trolley 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:57.159 and they would have a cup of tea and a biscuit. 00:09:57.289 --> 00:09:59.230 But that just shows you about different employment 00:09:59.230 --> 00:10:01.590 that you could afford to employ a specific person 00:10:01.590 --> 00:10:03.549 to wander around the office with a trolley, dealing 00:10:03.549 --> 00:10:05.529 out one cup of tea and one cup of coffee. So 00:10:05.529 --> 00:10:07.409 a tiny cup of tea and a tiny cup of coffee, not 00:10:07.409 --> 00:10:10.090 like the massive, massive mugs that we drink 00:10:10.090 --> 00:10:11.549 now of tea and coffee. It's just like all these 00:10:11.549 --> 00:10:14.289 little social insights. But apart from the experiences, 00:10:14.389 --> 00:10:16.710 which I do love, Hiana, one of the other things 00:10:16.710 --> 00:10:18.389 which I find hardest to do is you talk about, 00:10:18.450 --> 00:10:21.149 like, what do we value in our life? And for me, 00:10:21.169 --> 00:10:22.870 that's a really hard thing to try and pin down. 00:10:23.009 --> 00:10:24.789 Do you want to talk a bit about that and why 00:10:24.789 --> 00:10:30.389 that is important? Yeah, I think, again, it all 00:10:30.389 --> 00:10:34.549 started when I think about a year ago when I 00:10:34.549 --> 00:10:38.009 started with the workshop. And the first thing 00:10:38.009 --> 00:10:40.669 I realized talking to people is that they are 00:10:40.669 --> 00:10:44.710 not really sure what makes them tick, what's 00:10:44.710 --> 00:10:49.330 important in their lives, why they do what they 00:10:49.330 --> 00:10:54.330 do. So I decided, OK, let's go back to basics. 00:10:55.570 --> 00:10:59.649 Before we write our messages for next generations 00:10:59.649 --> 00:11:04.629 and before we tell them what a good life, what 00:11:04.629 --> 00:11:09.669 living a meaningful life means, let's understand 00:11:09.669 --> 00:11:14.250 what makes us tick. And it starts with close 00:11:14.250 --> 00:11:17.929 to 100 different values which you have to choose. 00:11:17.990 --> 00:11:20.870 And then you narrow it down and narrow it down 00:11:20.870 --> 00:11:23.820 and narrow it down. Without thinking, that's 00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:26.759 the whole idea. Because if you think too much, 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.860 you already start putting the thought of, oh, 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:34.080 what will people say? What would other people 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:37.120 think about me? But if you do it, you know, quickly, 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:41.299 just from your gut, then you choose the values 00:11:41.299 --> 00:11:44.700 that are really important to you. And then you 00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:48.139 look at them. And I've had people looking at 00:11:48.139 --> 00:11:53.240 the values that they chose and like, huh. That 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:57.899 makes sense. Now I understand why I chose this 00:11:57.899 --> 00:12:01.399 job rather than the other, why I chose this path 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:05.320 rather than something else. Like all of a sudden 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:10.399 it clicks and people understand why they do what 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:16.000 they do. And only then you can move one step 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:21.580 forward into understanding. What is the message 00:12:21.580 --> 00:12:24.820 that you want other people to know? What is the 00:12:24.820 --> 00:12:27.399 message you want your descendants to know? What 00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:30.960 were you all about? And that was fascinating. 00:12:31.740 --> 00:12:35.320 And I think with each workshop, I had my own 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:39.419 experiences. I had my own way of, I mean, I went 00:12:39.419 --> 00:12:43.460 through the process as well. And I had quite 00:12:43.460 --> 00:12:48.720 amazing revelations, I have to say. One, like... 00:12:48.990 --> 00:12:52.850 If I think back, one of the very significant 00:12:52.850 --> 00:12:57.529 revelations that somebody had, it was a woman, 00:12:57.590 --> 00:13:03.549 she was 65 years old, and she started with, I've 00:13:03.549 --> 00:13:06.870 got nothing to write. I said, okay, you don't 00:13:06.870 --> 00:13:12.730 have to. Just with every exercise that I do, 00:13:12.870 --> 00:13:16.149 I have a few questions. And so, well, don't write 00:13:16.149 --> 00:13:20.419 anything because it's... writing something some 00:13:20.419 --> 00:13:23.980 some people feel that it's overwhelming and i'm 00:13:23.980 --> 00:13:27.539 not a writer i i can't write my life story whatever 00:13:27.539 --> 00:13:30.639 i said fine you don't have to all you need to 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:34.080 do is just answer a few questions and she did 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:40.919 and it ended up with us waiting for her to finish 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:44.000 writing because once she started she couldn't 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:49.779 stop and when she was finished All of a sudden, 00:13:49.820 --> 00:13:51.940 because there's a certain drill, a certain exercise 00:13:51.940 --> 00:13:57.279 that I do with the home, I don't want to, you 00:13:57.279 --> 00:13:59.639 know, give away anything, but there's a certain 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:05.539 exercise that I do. And the result of that was 00:14:05.539 --> 00:14:10.720 that she realized that one of the values that 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:15.820 she lives by was actually, if we use, you know, 00:14:15.820 --> 00:14:20.750 the... the world of plants, it was planted in 00:14:20.750 --> 00:14:25.129 her at the age of five. And she only realized 00:14:25.129 --> 00:14:30.450 that at the age of 65. And that was such a wow 00:14:30.450 --> 00:14:34.730 moment because all of a sudden everything fell 00:14:34.730 --> 00:14:38.950 into place and she understood all the choices 00:14:38.950 --> 00:14:42.629 that she made through her life when she followed 00:14:42.629 --> 00:14:47.779 that value that she upheld so highly. But she 00:14:47.779 --> 00:14:51.559 could never explain why. So at the age of 65, 00:14:51.639 --> 00:14:57.139 she finally realized why and the fact that she 00:14:57.139 --> 00:15:02.179 already started that at the age of five. That 00:15:02.179 --> 00:15:05.620 is amazing, isn't it? When you talk about leaving 00:15:05.620 --> 00:15:08.399 things for the future and what do we want to 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:10.820 leave behind us, that can feel like a kind of, 00:15:10.899 --> 00:15:12.179 wait, wait, wait, I don't want to leave planet 00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:15.220 Earth. We all hope we have many more years and 00:15:15.220 --> 00:15:18.399 decades ahead of us. Speaking to you in the past 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:20.539 and reading your writing together, you've said 00:15:20.539 --> 00:15:23.159 that actually taking that time right now in our 00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:25.120 lives to have a think about our values, then 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:27.700 it really helps us actually lead a better life 00:15:27.700 --> 00:15:31.059 now. So your friend there, the person who, or 00:15:31.059 --> 00:15:34.419 your student, who six decades after she had that 00:15:34.419 --> 00:15:36.919 value instilled in her, suddenly realised what 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:39.919 an impact it had had on her whole life. Then 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:41.980 if we all just take a moment to stop and think 00:15:41.980 --> 00:15:44.559 about our values, it's kind of a wake up call 00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:48.799 in a really beautiful way, isn't it? That's how 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:52.320 it all started. I mean, it all starts with a 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:55.720 certain experience that gives birth to something 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:58.659 bigger, that gives birth to something even bigger. 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:04.460 And I truly believe that because sometimes we 00:16:04.460 --> 00:16:10.039 can realize that maybe a value that we've been 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:14.840 upholding or living by for a long period of time. 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.980 It's something that actually served us when we 00:16:18.980 --> 00:16:23.460 were younger. But now, you know, when we're older, 00:16:23.659 --> 00:16:30.600 it might be blocking us. It stopped serving us 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:34.440 as human beings, trying to live a better life. 00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:39.960 And unless you stop and look at it and face it 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.919 head on, because some of the things are uncomfortable. 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:48.120 Especially, you know, like you said, we don't 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:51.820 want to think about the world without us. It's 00:16:51.820 --> 00:16:56.279 unthinkable. And if you're superstitious, I mean, 00:16:56.279 --> 00:17:00.519 with my mother, there is no talk about death, 00:17:00.740 --> 00:17:05.200 like nothing, which is completely different from 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:09.410 the way I... talk about things or you know my 00:17:09.410 --> 00:17:13.450 uh my my sons we talk about death that we have 00:17:13.450 --> 00:17:16.809 no taboos no sacred cows we talk about anything 00:17:16.809 --> 00:17:19.769 and everything but with my mother you cannot 00:17:19.769 --> 00:17:23.789 discuss death because in her mind when you discuss 00:17:23.789 --> 00:17:27.690 it you you bring it forward and i'm like mom 00:17:27.690 --> 00:17:30.809 you're gonna die when you're gonna die it's what 00:17:30.809 --> 00:17:33.670 you do with your life here and now but sometimes 00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:38.799 When we overcome that, when we pass that superstitions 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:44.259 of, if we talk about death, we invite it into 00:17:44.259 --> 00:17:47.960 our lives, because we don't. We have no saying 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:52.079 when we're going to leave this earth. So when 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:55.200 you pass that, sometimes you can realize that 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.900 you were living by something that is no longer 00:17:58.900 --> 00:18:02.799 serving you. And when you realize that, you have... 00:18:03.049 --> 00:18:06.710 the option, you have the choice of doing something 00:18:06.710 --> 00:18:10.769 else. One of the very emotional things that I 00:18:10.769 --> 00:18:15.789 had in one of the workshops, one of the girls 00:18:15.789 --> 00:18:21.029 rang me the next morning and she said, I got 00:18:21.029 --> 00:18:23.890 up this morning, it was at the end of the three 00:18:23.890 --> 00:18:26.329 sessions, and she said, I got up this morning 00:18:26.329 --> 00:18:31.660 a different woman. I am aware of the choices 00:18:31.660 --> 00:18:38.000 that I can make. And for me, that was, oh my 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:44.539 God. And sometimes it's even when you go through 00:18:44.539 --> 00:18:47.980 something and you offer other people to go through 00:18:47.980 --> 00:18:53.339 a similar process, I don't always know where 00:18:53.339 --> 00:18:57.000 those people will end up, but it's always... 00:18:57.690 --> 00:19:00.829 At least with my experience, it's always a better 00:19:00.829 --> 00:19:04.829 place. It's a place of choice. And every time 00:19:04.829 --> 00:19:08.009 we get to a place of choice is a better thing 00:19:08.009 --> 00:19:11.789 for us because then we choose what is right for 00:19:11.789 --> 00:19:16.089 us today and not what was right for us 10 or 00:19:16.089 --> 00:19:20.450 20 years ago. Yeah, I love all that. I love being 00:19:20.450 --> 00:19:22.509 reflective. In the last year or two, I've done 00:19:22.509 --> 00:19:25.380 a lot of self -reflection. It's amazing the things 00:19:25.380 --> 00:19:27.119 that can stack up in your life that you don't 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:29.619 know why they're there until you question them. 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:32.119 Like for years and years and years, I thought 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:34.359 I hated dogs and everyone was like, oh, you hate 00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:36.039 dogs. That's awful. Dogs are the best thing ever. 00:19:36.099 --> 00:19:37.480 And I went, no, they're awful, blah, blah, blah. 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:40.759 And then I traced it back. And the reason I hated 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:43.440 dogs was because my mum told me I hated dogs 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:46.200 because she hated them. And I'd never been allowed 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:48.420 to make that distinction myself, but I just lived 00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:50.960 with it. And it was, it's a small example, but 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:56.759 it was a huge example. It's huge. It is really. 00:19:56.980 --> 00:20:01.579 I mean, think about it. You have lived by something. 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:06.140 Not even a lot of people have traumas. Okay. 00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:08.880 I mean, I was expecting you to say, oh, because 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:11.579 I realized, you know, that I was bitten by a 00:20:11.579 --> 00:20:14.400 dog when I was a year old, whatever. So that's 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:17.940 a trauma that is. kind of implemented itself 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:21.279 in you and then when you grow up you don't know 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:23.880 why you don't have you don't like dogs but that 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:26.680 is something not something that you experienced 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:31.079 it's something that someone else told you about 00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:34.599 you and that's how you lived your life can you 00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:37.180 imagine can you understand i mean i'm like blown 00:20:37.180 --> 00:20:39.900 away i mean this is huge this is a huge realization 00:20:42.339 --> 00:20:44.759 Yeah, well, it is. It's massive, isn't it? But 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:47.400 now I'm like, right, OK, I can go meet people 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:49.119 who've got dogs and maybe I'll stroke the dog 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:51.200 and see how I feel about it. And it's a different 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:53.420 world now. It's like, OK, yeah, I'm not scared 00:20:53.420 --> 00:20:56.019 of these dogs. I would definitely agree. So I 00:20:56.019 --> 00:20:58.700 was so privileged earlier this year when Hiana 00:20:58.700 --> 00:21:01.500 was explaining her work to me. Then she took 00:21:01.500 --> 00:21:04.759 me through four sessions and it was quite emotional 00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:07.140 and messy, wasn't it? Like tissues were needed. 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:09.900 A lot of laughing happened as well. It's like 00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:12.359 a proper roller coaster. But I would definitely 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:14.720 agree with you at the end that it wasn't just 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:16.680 a positive experience in the moment and positive 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:19.940 experience doing Yana's programme. It was also 00:21:19.940 --> 00:21:22.740 just afterwards, just some things which I'd lived 00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:24.859 with for a long time in my life were just kind 00:21:24.859 --> 00:21:27.720 of parked. And it sounds weird, but literally 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:30.619 you can be like, I've realised that. Literally 00:21:30.619 --> 00:21:32.779 wrapped it up with a bow and gone, that was then, 00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:36.059 moving on now. And it's cool. It's really nice. 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:39.200 Because it gives you space in your life not to 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:40.980 have those things there. And so you can start 00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:43.059 trying other things and different ways of looking 00:21:43.059 --> 00:21:44.680 at things and different ways of interacting. 00:21:44.980 --> 00:21:47.079 And maybe even one to get a dog, Nathan. Who 00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:50.220 knows? Let's not go that far. I'm definitely 00:21:50.220 --> 00:21:53.200 a cat man. You don't want to be disloyal to the 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:56.839 cats. You never know. You never know. Never say 00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:00.599 never. Yeah. I also discovered, this is whimsical, 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:02.680 I am a little bit whimsical, but my interest 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:06.359 in women and cars is all based on watching the 00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:10.440 A -Team too much as a child. That's where my 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.299 ideals of what a car should look like and what 00:22:12.299 --> 00:22:14.240 a woman should be in it. It's because I wanted 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:16.440 to be first from the A -Team, but that was literally, 00:22:16.539 --> 00:22:19.720 you know, a fun thing in my past that actually 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:22.779 has just drawn my interest continuously. Like, 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:24.660 oh, curly -haired woman, I'm interested. It's 00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:28.279 weird. We have a relation who fancied Bart Simpson 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:30.779 and wanted to marry him. It can get very complicated 00:22:30.779 --> 00:22:34.480 very quickly. I don't know where to go with that. 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:37.180 You can't go anywhere. We had to just break it 00:22:37.180 --> 00:22:38.779 to her gently that that was going to be unlike 00:22:38.779 --> 00:22:41.960 she was ever going to marry Bart. But yeah, she's 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:45.640 now a happy adult. She likes a bad boy. Well, 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:47.880 he's just an animation figure is the main snag. 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:54.559 Yeah, but with you, Helen, we had some creepy 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:59.099 stuff as well. I mean, stuff we had... Well, 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:01.799 I was talking about this at the weekend because 00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:03.859 I was talking about... So why we're talking to 00:23:03.859 --> 00:23:06.279 you today is partly to tell people in September 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:08.079 we're going to do this very cool course. It's 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:11.720 a four -week course and it's where virtual world 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:13.980 meets real world because it's going to be on 00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:16.500 Zoom so anyone can take part wherever you are 00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:19.269 in the world. as lana jeffrey on tuesday evenings 00:23:19.269 --> 00:23:22.990 to come along at 6 30 uk time and hiana will 00:23:22.990 --> 00:23:27.049 take us through the series of very simple looking 00:23:27.049 --> 00:23:28.950 questions but before you know it you're going 00:23:28.950 --> 00:23:31.369 to be having a really exciting experience because 00:23:31.369 --> 00:23:32.910 on the one hand you'll be checking in with what 00:23:32.910 --> 00:23:35.509 your values are today and where you want to what 00:23:35.509 --> 00:23:36.930 you want to do with your life like what's really 00:23:36.930 --> 00:23:38.910 precious to you how do you want to spend your 00:23:38.910 --> 00:23:40.329 time who do you want to spend it with what do 00:23:40.329 --> 00:23:42.670 you do what what you What do you value about 00:23:42.670 --> 00:23:45.190 your life today and appreciating your everyday 00:23:45.190 --> 00:23:47.329 life? And then on the other hand, you're going 00:23:47.329 --> 00:23:50.460 to be making little recordings of this. And this 00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:51.799 is where it meets the real world. It's not all 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:54.220 just on Zoom. Yana's got lots of worksheets which 00:23:54.220 --> 00:23:57.960 you can fill in and write letters. And we've 00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:00.500 created this beautiful time capsule, haven't 00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:02.559 we, Yana? We're so excited about it. So it's 00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:04.980 kind of a genealogy time capsule, but it's kind 00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:08.200 of also just every house should have one. Every 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:10.460 person should have one. It's a beautiful box 00:24:10.460 --> 00:24:13.200 with a magnetic close. It's white. It's unbranded. 00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:14.559 So it can just fit into your house, whatever 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:16.819 your vibe is. And then inside there are lots 00:24:16.819 --> 00:24:20.700 of little pouches and little boxes. there is 00:24:20.700 --> 00:24:24.880 a wooden stamp with a brass, what do you call 00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.319 it, the metal bit on the end, with a wax candle. 00:24:27.500 --> 00:24:29.700 So you can stamp your letters to the future with 00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:32.259 a wax seal, just like out of history, because 00:24:32.259 --> 00:24:35.460 Keanu and I are keen history fans, so we couldn't 00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:39.940 forgo that. It's got ribbons to tie up your letters 00:24:39.940 --> 00:24:41.960 to the future. It's got all that sort of thing. 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:43.559 So you can make a little time capsule. So obviously 00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:45.460 you can't fit everything that's meaningful into 00:24:45.460 --> 00:24:48.400 your life into a little box, which is about a... 00:24:48.779 --> 00:24:51.740 five size so imagine fold a piece of paper in 00:24:51.740 --> 00:24:54.019 half it's that size and then quite deep maybe 00:24:54.019 --> 00:24:58.420 um like 10 8 10 centimeters deep you can't fit 00:24:58.420 --> 00:24:59.960 your whole life into there but what it is it's 00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:01.799 like a little time capture which can also point 00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:04.119 as a kind of treasure map to other things around 00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:06.759 your house books that mean things to you a photo 00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:08.740 album that means things to you and then you can 00:25:08.740 --> 00:25:11.359 partly bequeath practical things to people but 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:14.359 more importantly you can say i want you to have 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:17.299 this because this is what I value in you. This 00:25:17.299 --> 00:25:18.859 is why you're precious to me. And this is why 00:25:18.859 --> 00:25:20.640 this object was precious to me. And this is why 00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:22.960 it's that things aren't just objects. It's a 00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:26.900 meaningful dialogue and experience with the people 00:25:26.900 --> 00:25:29.299 in our present life and on into the future and 00:25:29.299 --> 00:25:34.240 making things matter. Yeah. Would you say? Yeah, 00:25:34.539 --> 00:25:38.099 because it's all about the stories. And I've 00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:42.539 also, I've realized that people, when you talk 00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:46.740 to people about telling their story, It's intimidating. 00:25:47.299 --> 00:25:50.740 And they keep saying, oh, it's too much, it's 00:25:50.740 --> 00:25:55.200 too big. And I think that what we do during the 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:59.640 workshop is just bits and pieces, baby steps, 00:25:59.859 --> 00:26:03.140 the small things. Because at the end of the day, 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:10.140 the small things are what's important. And they're 00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:14.759 amazing. And so exciting time capsule that they 00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:19.000 will have. It's only a kickstart. They can duplicate 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:23.400 that. They can buy others for other people. They 00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:27.279 can have a bigger one for themselves. But this 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:32.700 is kind of a roadmap or a sample of what can 00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:37.970 be done. And it's super, super exciting. It is 00:26:37.970 --> 00:26:40.210 so exciting. It made me forget my very exciting 00:26:40.210 --> 00:26:42.569 story. Shall I quickly say what it was? Because 00:26:42.569 --> 00:26:44.710 she said about it. So I had this, I was doing 00:26:44.710 --> 00:26:46.890 the programme with Yana. I'm really excited about 00:26:46.890 --> 00:26:48.089 the time capsule in case you haven't guessed. 00:26:48.269 --> 00:26:50.630 Anyway, so I was doing the programme with Yana 00:26:50.630 --> 00:26:52.509 and I think I was about three weeks in and I 00:26:52.509 --> 00:26:54.430 was sitting on, I have a little room upstairs, 00:26:54.490 --> 00:26:55.829 which is my office. I was sitting on the floor 00:26:55.829 --> 00:26:58.109 sewing and I'd been reflecting on what lots of 00:26:58.109 --> 00:27:00.549 what Yana and I had been talking about and how 00:27:00.549 --> 00:27:02.190 I'd had some things which I just couldn't move 00:27:02.190 --> 00:27:04.009 on in my life, like some real feelings of resentment 00:27:04.009 --> 00:27:06.849 and which is not nice to miss about. yourself 00:27:06.849 --> 00:27:08.789 I just couldn't let it go I kept feeling like 00:27:08.789 --> 00:27:11.210 a bit bitter a bit angry a bit resentful and 00:27:11.210 --> 00:27:13.549 I wasn't wasn't I didn't like this about myself 00:27:13.549 --> 00:27:15.750 and it was to do with very specific aspects of 00:27:15.750 --> 00:27:19.750 my life anyway I was just sitting there sewing 00:27:19.750 --> 00:27:23.529 and reflecting and then and it was and I was 00:27:23.529 --> 00:27:26.170 piecing it all together and then I just finished 00:27:26.170 --> 00:27:29.049 sewing and suddenly I have a little biscuit tin 00:27:29.049 --> 00:27:31.730 on the top of my bookshelf and in there is letters 00:27:31.730 --> 00:27:34.880 from the past like which have been sent to me 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:36.339 through my life obviously not all of them just 00:27:36.339 --> 00:27:39.640 like a little subset and the lid of the biscuit 00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:43.079 tin flew off the top of the tin and just landed 00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:45.359 at my feet with this massive clatter and i know 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:48.099 that sounds bonkers but it whether you believe 00:27:48.099 --> 00:27:50.019 in poltergeist or not it's irrelevant but the 00:27:50.019 --> 00:27:52.359 impact it had on my physiology it was gave me 00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:55.339 a massive shock and it made me remember this 00:27:55.339 --> 00:27:57.700 feeling of like i want to park that feeling of 00:27:57.700 --> 00:28:00.000 resentment and move on and it literally was like 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.180 shock therapy and i that was probably six seven 00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:07.480 months ago now and i'm just literally i can talk 00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:09.099 about the things which i found stressful then 00:28:09.099 --> 00:28:11.380 and they just don't don't get my blood up i'm 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:14.720 just like that was then it's weird very thankful 00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:17.779 to you That was creepy, you've got to admit. 00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:21.619 I know, I know. But I love the fact that the 00:28:21.619 --> 00:28:24.099 biscuit tin... We always talk about the things 00:28:24.099 --> 00:28:25.660 you keep in biscuit tins as family historians. 00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:27.759 Do you have Granny's biscuit tin, which has got 00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:29.359 the old medals in it? I was like, oh my God, 00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:34.720 it actually was a biscuit tin as well. So without 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:36.599 being too much of a geniality cliché, it was 00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:42.700 a biscuit tin. But I had someone who told me 00:28:42.700 --> 00:28:46.220 about... A very, you know, a similar experience 00:28:46.220 --> 00:28:52.460 of she was writing about her impact. She wasn't 00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:55.039 sure how much of an impact she made in other 00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:59.900 people's lives. And one of the exercises, she 00:28:59.900 --> 00:29:03.220 started writing about it. And then, and she had 00:29:03.220 --> 00:29:07.680 a really book, a really big bookshelf. And she 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:11.779 had an envelope that was stuck between two books, 00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:18.099 right? And while she was writing about what impact 00:29:18.099 --> 00:29:23.440 she had on other people's lives, the envelope, 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:26.039 I mean, this is, I mean, this is photographs. 00:29:26.299 --> 00:29:28.480 I mean, this sounds creepy. The envelope just 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:33.640 flew, just came out of in between the books. 00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:39.019 And in that envelope, she had a letter from somebody 00:29:39.019 --> 00:29:43.910 that she helped find jobs. kind of sought her 00:29:43.910 --> 00:29:48.430 life out years before. And there was the letter 00:29:48.430 --> 00:29:53.349 and the photograph of that woman with her sister 00:29:53.349 --> 00:29:58.569 or whatever. And she completely freaked out. 00:29:58.589 --> 00:30:01.730 It was out of nowhere. And it wasn't like the 00:30:01.730 --> 00:30:05.670 books were loose. There was no reason for that 00:30:05.670 --> 00:30:09.259 envelope to just pop out. in between from in 00:30:09.259 --> 00:30:12.359 between the books and that when she told me about 00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:16.400 it that reminded me of your tin of your lid flying 00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:21.839 flying over and landing at your feet so so nathan 00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:23.319 if you're going to do this course in september 00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:25.059 just make sure you haven't got any heavy objects 00:30:25.059 --> 00:30:29.640 on your bookshelf okay that's obvious just stand 00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:31.579 well clear put a little hard hat on you never 00:30:31.579 --> 00:30:34.720 know what's going to happen next So, Jana, it's 00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:37.380 been so great to talk to you. So you've given 00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:39.359 us a really cool project, which any of us could 00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:42.240 just take a start today. And so that is, wherever 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:44.279 we are, we could do like a 24 -hour project from 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:46.700 now. Just record, you know, what we're eating 00:30:46.700 --> 00:30:50.259 and drinking, what we're daydreaming about, who 00:30:50.259 --> 00:30:52.900 we may be chatting to, what our working life's 00:30:52.900 --> 00:30:56.319 like. Just give it a go for one day. Yeah. You 00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:00.490 never know what... From what you say or leave 00:31:00.490 --> 00:31:05.529 today, what will be the inspiration for the next 00:31:05.529 --> 00:31:08.990 generations or the three or four or five generations 00:31:08.990 --> 00:31:13.990 to come? Or how? And I'll just wrap up with this, 00:31:14.069 --> 00:31:17.329 you know, going back to my grandmother. When 00:31:17.329 --> 00:31:22.950 I lost my baby, I felt so broken, so alone, even 00:31:22.950 --> 00:31:26.170 though I had so many people around me, but I 00:31:26.170 --> 00:31:30.819 felt broken. As a woman, as a mother, I felt 00:31:30.819 --> 00:31:36.339 all alone. And I know that if I could read something 00:31:36.339 --> 00:31:41.559 from my grandmother talking about her loss, telling 00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:47.000 me how she overcame that loss and what helped 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:50.519 her, I know, I know I would have, I mean, she 00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:53.359 has been such an inspiration for me all my life. 00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:58.039 I know that I would have. drank her you know 00:31:58.039 --> 00:32:01.640 every word and have that as something that could 00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:05.779 uplift me from a very very low place in my life 00:32:05.779 --> 00:32:11.180 so you never know what will uplift that person 00:32:11.180 --> 00:32:16.119 100 years from now yeah yeah i know what you're 00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:20.599 doing is very very special yeah thank you and 00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.589 thank you for having me i I love talking about 00:32:23.589 --> 00:32:28.289 it and, you know, spreading the word and helping 00:32:28.289 --> 00:32:31.250 people realize that they don't have to go big. 00:32:31.410 --> 00:32:34.829 On the contrary, go small because those are the 00:32:34.829 --> 00:32:38.150 moments that will empower other people. Those 00:32:38.150 --> 00:32:40.730 are the moments that will inspire other people. 00:32:40.809 --> 00:32:43.890 Those are the moments that will keep you alive 00:32:43.890 --> 00:32:50.599 for other people. And if anybody has a copy of 00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:52.240 Family Tree with them, which I know lots of you 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:56.039 are Family Tree readers, then in the last two 00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:58.539 issues, then you can get Yana's articles or you 00:32:58.539 --> 00:33:00.839 can head over to our blog. And then if you go 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:05.140 into the content library and then look for Yana's 00:33:05.140 --> 00:33:07.740 articles there. We put it in one big long article 00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:10.059 so you can read it all in one go, just free, 00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:12.480 wherever you are in the world, because this is 00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.599 a really important message to get out. So thank 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.859 you so much, Yana. Thank you. yes thanks jenna 00:33:18.859 --> 00:33:21.700 lovely to meet you you too thank you so much