WEBVTT

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Hello everybody and welcome to Family Tree Talk,

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your favourite family history podcast. I'm Nathan

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and with me as always is... Helen Tovey. Hi Helen,

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you alright? I'm very well, yeah, how are you?

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Yeah, I'm alright, surviving. I say I'm very

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well, I have got hay fever so I apologise in

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advance if there's suddenly an explosion in anybody's

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ear, it's just me sneezing, it's not contagious,

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it's just annoying. Maybe Nathan will be able

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to edit them out. Maybe, maybe. Depends on how

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much you do sneeze. Yes, and sincere sympathies

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to any other hay fever sufferers around the world.

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It's very annoying, isn't it? It is. I used to

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be really bad with hay fever. I literally couldn't

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go outside because my face would swell. And then

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I don't know whether it's contact lenses and

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the fact that I run all the time now, but it

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doesn't affect me anymore. It's weird. That's

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interesting. So maybe if you're outside in the

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fresh air, you're getting less hay fever, whereas...

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My sympathies would have been going out to our

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ancestors who were working in the fields and

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you don't have a choice but to be an agricultural

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labourer. Oh, God, if you have hay fever and

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that's your job, you're really up against it.

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But that's interesting. Maybe it's a more modern

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growing thing. Yeah, maybe I'm just an oddity.

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But like in my younger years, every summer I'd

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hide, literally just hide in the house and watch

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Wimbledon or whatever was on TV and like not

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want to go outside at all. And now. I don't laugh

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at my children because they've got hay fever,

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but I'm like, thank God I don't have the hay

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fever anymore. It's weird. Well, I think I've

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gone past the age of growing out of hay fever.

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I think that would have happened if it was going

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to happen. Well, I'm going to say that running's

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cured it and everybody should go out running,

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but I'm an advocate for that stuff. Yeah. I've

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been having a very exciting time recently, Nathan.

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Not with my own family history, but we've been

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doing plotting and planning for Family Tree Live.

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All right, cool. Really good fun. Yeah, so just

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to recap for anybody in case you don't know.

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So next year, a whole year away, 2027. In May,

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we're going to do a two day family history show

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slap bang in the middle of England, just north

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of Birmingham at a place called Statfold Country

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Park. And it's got steam railways you can ride

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on. It's got a lovely exhibition space, which

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we're going to have jam packed with family history

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things. And it's got lecture space. So we're

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just going to have loads of fun. Those are all

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vehicles you can imagine. Yeah. Lots of old amusements

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as well. Definitely. How can I forget that? It's

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the National Fairground Museum as well. You're

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quite right. Yes. Carousels. You can go on the

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carousel, can't you? And the dodgems. And there's

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this rocket ride, which if you dare, you can

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go on there. That does look a bit speedy for

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my liking. Yes. So we've been planning, we're

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gradually shaping up, you know, what we're going

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to be doing there. We want to make it so that

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if you're just a little bit curious about family

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history, you could come along with your family.

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Start learning about the past, learning which

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way up to hold the census record if you had one

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in front of you and what it might tell you about

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your family. So really help people kind of dip

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their toe in if they're right at the start of

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it. But if they've been doing it for ages, you

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want it to have loads of new information they

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can find, loads of nostalgia and good fun catching

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up with other family history nuts as well. Yeah,

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sounds good. Getting lost in the world of family

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history. Oh, so good. Yeah, yeah. Lots of cheering.

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Yes. I have to do that annoying thing. I can't

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tell you any details yet because I've just got

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to make sure they're all firmed up. But it's

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sounding very exciting so far. Well, let's keep

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everybody intrigued. Yes, yes. Then on my own

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family history front, I'm doing an inventory.

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It's a little bit different. Wow, that sounds

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thrilling. I know. It is. It's as thrilling as

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it sounds. But also it's a dangerous kind of

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inventory to do. Because next to my genealogy

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goals, you know, I said I wasn't going to mention

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the lock, lock. So I'm not going to mention that

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anymore. So I've moved on to my next goal, which

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is making sure I really have digitized properly

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all of the albums that my uncle gave me quite

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a few years ago, three or four years ago, before

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I hand them back to him in September when we

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go to see him in September. Some of the projects

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are digitized, some I hadn't digitized, some

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are digitized, but that wasn't very happy with

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the photography to redo them. It's doing your

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inventory, which is super boring, but the problem

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is the material I'm looking at is old photos.

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So the capacity for getting completely sidetracked

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and stopping doing what I should be doing is

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huge. The intrigue's there. It's bad, yes. That

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sounds like a really cool thing to do there.

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It is a really cool thing to do, yeah. And I

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also had such a lovely little family history

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win this week. I was in the swing park with my

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dear little grandson and I was showing him actually

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pictures of my other daughter's tortoise, random.

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And then because I'd been sending my other daughter...

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photos of the ancestors as babies because she

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wanted to see them then he caught sight of these

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and he's like who's that who's that so i was

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saying well this is granny this is great granny

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all this sort of thing and then we came to great

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granny's granny and he was very direct i was

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interested in his language he went is she dead

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which is not we wouldn't be as adults we barely

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ever use that word anymore we much more Kind

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of gentle how we phrase it. We say passing on

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and past. Whereas he was just like out with it.

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And I was like, well, yes, she is dead, but she

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had a very long, happy life. And so then, accidentally,

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I wasn't even meaning to do any sneaky family

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history. I was telling him all about her long

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life because she was lucky. She had a long life

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and she had four children and, you know, a lucky

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life with lots of dogs and lots of golf. And

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I said about she had a job that she loved a long

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time ago and she worked on this amazing big boat

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and had to wear. I said it was a black coat with

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yellow buttons. It was obviously navy blue because

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it's in the Navy, isn't it? It looks black coat

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with yellow buttons. And then he wanted to see

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a picture of the boat. So I quickly Googled one

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up and I had forgotten what a splendid boat it

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was. this massive boat, hundreds of feet long,

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three masts, multiple sails, and literally his

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eyes popped out. So I kind of secretly hope that

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he'll remember seeing this amazing boat and then

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sometime later when he's really old, like 10

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years old or something, it will come back in

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his mind and he'll start to want to learn a little

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bit more. Yeah, that sounds good. That sounds

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like a story that's been passed down to me from

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my grandparents where I come on this podcast

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and I'm like, yeah, something to do with the

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Concorde. Yes. Yes, it'll be that situation.

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He'll go, a really big boat. I don't know anything

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else about it. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. But it's

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a generation stack up because that's his two

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times great granny. Right. It obviously is a

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bit, which is kind of obvious, but it's still

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astonishing. So when we think of our own two

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times great granny, they seem way back when.

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We meet them. Well, very rarely. A few very lucky

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people meet them, but most people don't. I was

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having a surreal. I don't know if it was a waking

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dream or a daydream the other day about boats.

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Hmm. So, this is weird. I might even cut this

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out of the podcast. But, like, inventing a boat,

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right, let's say one, this is right, this is

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really bad conventional wisdom on my part, but

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let's say the Vikings invented boats. I don't

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know who invented boats, but obviously we've

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got old school navigation where they could only

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get around the coast, they couldn't actually

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leave. the land because they were too scared

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to get lost. Yet all around the world, different

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people were building boats and they were watertight

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and they didn't have the tools that we've got

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today. It's just terrifying. It just intrigued

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me. How did that information get passed around

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the world? Am I talking nonsense? No, you're

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not. I've got a few vague bits of knowledge.

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Meep, meep, meep, alert, I'm going into territory

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I wasn't expecting to talk about. It's as well

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as I can remember on the spot because Nathan's

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just dumped me in it. So there's lots of things

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going on here. One is that our ancestors weren't

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terrified to leave the land. The land is mainly

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forested in many parts of the world. So you try

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walking through a forest. Next time you throw

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a ball for a dog and it goes into the forest

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and you have to wade through five metres of undergrowth

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to find the ball. That's to picture your ancestors

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are out trying to get around most of the landmass.

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The Romans, we go, oh, the Romans were amazing.

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They built these Roman roads. But that was only

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2 ,000 years ago. So obviously you've got 10,

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20, 30 ,000 more years where people are travelling

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around without the Roman roads, aren't they?

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So people are very happy to get in a boat. And

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even in Victorian times, they might get in a

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boat and travel down from Newcastle to London

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on the boat because it's easier than going on

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the bumpy old. stagecoach obviously the railways

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made it easier blah blah blah so they weren't

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frightened of the water and then there's fantastic

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stories this is where i'm getting into even more

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dangerous territory but it's people who um oh

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don't do it helen but i think there's connections

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between hawaii and polynesia and big people doing

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massive oceanic journeys in basically hollowed

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out logs multiple tens of thousand years ago

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and the technology is the same and there's genetic

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connections between people and so there's partly

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people would travel huge incomprehensible distances

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in hollowed out logs partly there's Pangaea which

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when we were when our parents were at school

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or my parents definitely I don't even think Pangaea

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had been discovered and so Pangaea is when the

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kind of knowledge that the continents separated

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and that's why South America and Africa looked

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like they could fit together because at one point

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they had fitted together in Pangaea when it was

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one global continent so apparently that was a

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big discovery in the mid -20th century and then

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Then since then, they've discovered that before

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Pangaea, there was multiple continents. So there's

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multiple continents, then there's one continent,

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now there's multiple continents. So our whole

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sense of borders and boundaries and what it's

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like to travel is just bonkers different to what

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it's like today. Yeah, sorry, I realised it's

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just out there and just off on one. No, it's

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interesting though. Your knowledge base is crazy,

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but equally, you've probably just watched Moana

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by the sounds of it. My knowledge base is sketchy.

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Like all of those things, I'll probably get two

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out of ten. If anyone wants to be diligent or

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anyone knows more, please do let us know. But

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it's that sort of rough idea. The core of what

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I've said is roughly right. It's just, yeah,

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built like these big boats. I'm going to talk

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about running again. No, I'm not. Yes, I am.

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No, I'm not. They're like big and wooden. How

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did they know they were going to float? And how

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did they know they were watertight? And they

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were made of wood. It's just freaking me out

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a little bit today. I also realised whilst talking

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to you, the reason I thought that they could

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only go around the coast and not get any further

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because of a computer game called Civilisation.

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In Civilisation, you had to evolve your race

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and... Unless you'd unlocked navigation, you

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could only use boats around the coast because

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you'd get lost. And once you got unlocked navigation,

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you could go out to sea. Fascinating. So what

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does navigation, what tools does navigation give

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you in which era? How do they work that out for

00:11:32.789 --> 00:11:35.250
you? Oh, I can't remember now. You're asking

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a big question there. You just have to... No,

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I can't remember. Because we're really ignorant,

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aren't we? So both my maternal granny and grandpa,

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for different reasons, one was in the RAF and

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one was in the... And so they both learnt about

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the stars and navigating by the stars. Yeah.

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I think that's why they learnt it. Maybe they

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just learnt it because that's what people learnt

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back in the day. Whereas I was like, there's

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no way I could do that. No, I always know when

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I'm in Leeds because I can see Orion's Belt.

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But again, but equally, that must be a time of

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year thing as well because obviously we're spinning

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about. I feel like I'm making like a real fool

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out of myself today. You're not, but there are

00:12:15.860 --> 00:12:18.830
some really, you find it kind of... It is like

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family history humour, isn't it? History humour,

00:12:20.929 --> 00:12:24.110
because it's just so different. My husband, one

00:12:24.110 --> 00:12:26.269
of his many loves is boats and boat building.

00:12:26.590 --> 00:12:29.129
And I remember he was learning about Second World

00:12:29.129 --> 00:12:34.149
War lifeboats and how they would get made with

00:12:34.149 --> 00:12:38.230
a proper, like a really strong canopy over the

00:12:38.230 --> 00:12:40.350
top so that when they got dumped into the sea,

00:12:40.409 --> 00:12:42.409
even at great speed, they would bob up again

00:12:42.409 --> 00:12:44.649
to the surface. That's great. I can't remember

00:12:44.649 --> 00:12:46.129
the name of the guy. He's a very famous boat

00:12:46.129 --> 00:12:49.070
builder who designed these. I mean, he also designed

00:12:49.070 --> 00:12:51.009
lots of civilian boats as well in that kind of

00:12:51.009 --> 00:12:53.909
typical Second World War era of lots of kind

00:12:53.909 --> 00:12:57.409
of Heath Robinson innovation. But inside the

00:12:57.409 --> 00:13:00.509
boat, there would be the manual of how you're

00:13:00.509 --> 00:13:02.789
going to survive on this lifeboat. And it's not

00:13:02.789 --> 00:13:05.230
like a handy app with a QR code or anything.

00:13:05.389 --> 00:13:07.750
It literally looks like yellow pages. So you've

00:13:07.750 --> 00:13:10.879
got these flimsy little sheets. or this flimsy

00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:14.299
little paper is a great big chunky tome and you're

00:13:14.299 --> 00:13:17.840
going to have to read this potentially by torchlight

00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:20.620
or candlelight getting blown out in the sea wind.

00:13:20.980 --> 00:13:23.039
If you're getting shipwrecked in the Second World

00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:24.960
War, there's probably a battle going on near

00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:29.299
you or there's a storm. You don't end up in a

00:13:29.299 --> 00:13:31.039
lifeboat by accident. Something's gone really

00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:32.580
wrong by the time you're in the lifeboat and

00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:34.120
then you're happy to read the yellow pages by

00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:37.000
torchlight at best. I'm like, man, it's bonkers.

00:13:37.870 --> 00:13:40.289
I hope those pages are waterproof as well. Exactly.

00:13:40.549 --> 00:13:44.129
I didn't even know that they were. And you're

00:13:44.129 --> 00:13:45.529
the lucky one because you were in the lifeboat.

00:13:46.190 --> 00:13:53.450
Wow. Yeah. It's crazy, isn't it? That's why history

00:13:53.450 --> 00:13:56.340
is so fun, though. You know, you could go about

00:13:56.340 --> 00:13:58.700
your boring little day, each of us in our lives,

00:13:58.820 --> 00:14:00.399
and we could get stressed because we've got a

00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:02.440
parking ticket or we've got stress because we

00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:04.019
forgot to send a Father's Day card or whatever

00:14:04.019 --> 00:14:06.720
it is. But in the scheme of things, it's most

00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:09.220
of us, most of the time, thank goodness, it's

00:14:09.220 --> 00:14:12.299
small. Yeah? We're not in the middle of shark

00:14:12.299 --> 00:14:14.039
-infested water trying to read the yellow pages

00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:17.299
by torchlight before another bomber comes over

00:14:17.299 --> 00:14:20.639
and tries to get us. Yeah. I've just realised

00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:22.820
where this train of thought came from. Yeah.

00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:26.200
I was daydreaming about going to a pub quiz and

00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.539
then I was like having a memory of going to a

00:14:28.539 --> 00:14:31.960
pub quiz with a friend who was apparently good

00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:36.360
at Spanish. And one of the questions on the last

00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.620
quiz I went to with them was, what is the Spanish

00:14:39.620 --> 00:14:44.039
word for Navy? And the answer is Armada. Yes.

00:14:44.590 --> 00:14:46.809
She didn't know it. She put La Neve or something

00:14:46.809 --> 00:14:50.009
like that. Anyway, but then it got me thinking

00:14:50.009 --> 00:14:51.830
about, like, I remember, like, they had, like,

00:14:51.850 --> 00:14:54.750
Royal Mail stamps for the Armada in, like, the

00:14:54.750 --> 00:14:56.590
80s, and they were really cool, and the ships

00:14:56.590 --> 00:14:59.990
looked really just, you know, beautiful. And

00:14:59.990 --> 00:15:02.750
I think my thought process was, like, that design

00:15:02.750 --> 00:15:05.250
of ship is, like, emulated throughout the world,

00:15:05.269 --> 00:15:09.210
yet, obviously, travel wasn't as quick or easy,

00:15:09.269 --> 00:15:11.570
so people had to move around the world. training

00:15:11.570 --> 00:15:13.870
people how to build these boats that all looked

00:15:13.870 --> 00:15:16.769
exactly the same and were really big and really

00:15:16.769 --> 00:15:19.350
heavy, yet they still floated. That's it. That's

00:15:19.350 --> 00:15:22.909
my mindset. Sorry about my rant. No, it's interesting.

00:15:23.110 --> 00:15:25.210
And also, probably, if it's anything to do with

00:15:25.210 --> 00:15:27.090
military, they probably weren't training. Probably

00:15:27.090 --> 00:15:29.629
what they did was they captured the enemy tech

00:15:29.629 --> 00:15:32.190
and then copied it and improved it just like

00:15:32.190 --> 00:15:36.649
we do today. Yeah, I guess so. They're just such

00:15:36.649 --> 00:15:38.309
big things, though, aren't they? The galleons

00:15:38.309 --> 00:15:41.080
are massive. I know they're made of wood which

00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:43.779
floats, but they're really heavy. It's just fascinating.

00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:47.779
It is fascinating. You could get concrete boats

00:15:47.779 --> 00:15:50.259
that float. That's not going to make your head

00:15:50.259 --> 00:15:54.000
melt. Concrete boats? That float. I know. Never

00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:59.139
heard of it. It's funny. So as to our family

00:15:59.139 --> 00:16:03.139
history, so I've got a lot to do with my inventory.

00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:05.419
I've got to be really organised, which is not

00:16:05.419 --> 00:16:10.149
playing to my strengths. Hmm. Yes. What I need

00:16:10.149 --> 00:16:12.230
is a reader to come up with a really good Excel

00:16:12.230 --> 00:16:14.909
sheet for me. Yeah, or somewhere that you can

00:16:14.909 --> 00:16:16.889
look at your photographs without actually seeing

00:16:16.889 --> 00:16:18.870
anything. Without actually looking at them. That

00:16:18.870 --> 00:16:21.570
looks interesting. Yes. I mean, that's where

00:16:21.570 --> 00:16:24.129
AI would come in handy. I can't think exactly

00:16:24.129 --> 00:16:26.169
how, but it wouldn't get, well, it does get sidetracked

00:16:26.169 --> 00:16:27.929
as a rabbit hole, but it doesn't really. It would

00:16:27.929 --> 00:16:29.570
be able to have a lot more self -discipline than

00:16:29.570 --> 00:16:33.350
me. I'm not friends with AI this week. It's in

00:16:33.350 --> 00:16:36.409
my bad books. Is it? Why is that then? I'm just

00:16:36.409 --> 00:16:39.279
terrified by it. I have weeks when I'm quite

00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:40.960
happy using it and I have other weeks when I'm

00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:43.799
not. Do you know, I have that ambivalent relationship

00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:47.360
as well. Sometimes I'm like, Helen, keep modern,

00:16:47.539 --> 00:16:51.120
learn about it. And other times I'm like, I'm

00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.139
a depressing sidetrack and I want to keep real.

00:16:53.460 --> 00:16:56.700
And I feel like I'm mad. I feel like this week

00:16:56.700 --> 00:16:58.679
I want to just go hide in the woods with a little

00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:01.980
knife and do some wood carvings. I feel like

00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:04.680
I want to feel real this week and the AI's terrifying

00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:08.490
me that it's not. Dunno. I'm very whimsical this

00:17:08.490 --> 00:17:10.849
week, whatever. I think the main thing is we

00:17:10.849 --> 00:17:14.089
need to keep educated, don't we? Yes. We need

00:17:14.089 --> 00:17:18.809
to be realistic about any small -scale risks

00:17:18.809 --> 00:17:21.369
of AI that are within our control and make sure

00:17:21.369 --> 00:17:24.710
we don't cause problems with them. So don't accidentally

00:17:24.710 --> 00:17:29.289
upload details of living people and don't accidentally

00:17:29.289 --> 00:17:32.349
put things in there that you don't wish you had

00:17:32.349 --> 00:17:33.730
put them in there because you won't be able to

00:17:33.730 --> 00:17:35.619
get them out again necessarily. depending on

00:17:35.619 --> 00:17:37.039
what your settings are. You need to kind of be

00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:39.779
savvy. Check out your settings. Are you happy

00:17:39.779 --> 00:17:41.740
with your data when it's way off away from you?

00:17:42.259 --> 00:17:46.799
All that. Yeah. I see I'm probably not that savvy

00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.900
with that. I probably just talk to AI willy -nilly

00:17:49.900 --> 00:17:52.359
and put all sorts of things in. I do often ask

00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:54.660
it to tell me what it knows about me, and it

00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:58.119
doesn't seem to know too much. Unless it's lying

00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:02.599
and saying, I know more about you, Nathan. I've

00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:04.599
been listening to a brilliant podcast recently.

00:18:04.890 --> 00:18:08.130
recently and it's ancestors and algorithms and

00:18:08.130 --> 00:18:12.349
that guy he um it's called brian and he's very

00:18:12.349 --> 00:18:14.609
very knowledgeable he gives international advice

00:18:14.609 --> 00:18:16.250
that's suitable for family historians everywhere

00:18:16.250 --> 00:18:23.460
about how to use ai wisely and safely He's well

00:18:23.460 --> 00:18:26.339
worth listening to. He gives you solid research

00:18:26.339 --> 00:18:29.579
advice. And then there's lots and lots of, it's

00:18:29.579 --> 00:18:32.039
mainly AI focus through the lens of AI. Like

00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:34.559
how would AI help you in this predicament? How

00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:37.200
would AI help you doing fan research, your friend's

00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:39.480
associate neighbor's research? Or how would AI,

00:18:39.660 --> 00:18:42.619
how could you use AI with the DNA? That sort

00:18:42.619 --> 00:18:45.460
of thing. We do also, we work with another lovely

00:18:45.460 --> 00:18:47.279
AI person. She's well worth keeping up with.

00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:51.369
It's Carol McCulloch. And she... is really good

00:18:51.369 --> 00:18:53.849
at just helping you learn all those nuts and

00:18:53.849 --> 00:18:55.369
bolts. You don't just look at the tool and be

00:18:55.369 --> 00:18:57.549
in a blur. You can use it in a really considered,

00:18:57.730 --> 00:19:01.410
precise way. You know where your information's

00:19:01.410 --> 00:19:03.890
going, what you're doing with it. It's education.

00:19:04.730 --> 00:19:06.690
It's always education. We thought education was

00:19:06.690 --> 00:19:08.369
just for school, but it's not. It's just life,

00:19:08.430 --> 00:19:11.269
isn't it? It is, and then now I realise how much

00:19:11.269 --> 00:19:14.769
I don't know. I think we all are feeling that.

00:19:15.490 --> 00:19:19.289
Yeah. There's so much to learn, isn't there?

00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:23.380
Well, there is. You terrify me. Your historical

00:19:23.380 --> 00:19:26.319
knowledge is just amazing. I can talk about anything

00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:28.019
and you'll know at least something about it.

00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:31.039
I know you'll claim you don't, but you do. Whereas

00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:34.619
anything that I know is based on pop culture

00:19:34.619 --> 00:19:37.940
or a computer game. It's just silly. Whatever.

00:19:38.220 --> 00:19:39.759
Well, do you know, Tuck, you're pop culture,

00:19:39.819 --> 00:19:42.900
so I have just... I started learning how to do

00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:45.099
shuffle dancing. I didn't even know what it was

00:19:45.099 --> 00:19:47.680
a week ago. And then an Instagram thing popped

00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:50.259
up and I was like, I want to learn that. And

00:19:50.259 --> 00:19:54.079
so at my great age, and I am so bad at dancing,

00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:56.220
I thought, I'm going to learn this. I'm just

00:19:56.220 --> 00:19:57.920
going to learn it in my kitchen all by myself.

00:19:58.299 --> 00:20:01.660
And that's old dancing from the 80s, isn't it?

00:20:01.900 --> 00:20:04.019
I haven't a clue what any of that is. You're

00:20:04.019 --> 00:20:05.880
probably now into more pop culture than I am.

00:20:06.259 --> 00:20:09.880
Well, I think this is... For 1980s, isn't pop

00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:12.039
culture for you, that's like... pop history for

00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:14.039
you yeah but if it's on tiktok or whatever then

00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:15.900
uh and all the kids are doing it you must be

00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:17.539
i don't think the kids are i think it's all people

00:20:17.539 --> 00:20:20.180
my age are doing it i learned how to floss when

00:20:20.180 --> 00:20:22.680
flossing came about i could do that oh that's

00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.259
good can you do any of that jiving or what are

00:20:26.259 --> 00:20:29.539
the other things called all these lovely um mid

00:20:29.539 --> 00:20:33.900
-20th century dancers so talented i have no coordination

00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:37.079
at all i'm amazed i can run without falling over

00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:40.789
to be honest I have no coordination too, but

00:20:40.789 --> 00:20:42.049
that's the beauty of the internet. I mean, it

00:20:42.049 --> 00:20:44.410
does tie into education because you can use the

00:20:44.410 --> 00:20:46.730
internet to educate yourself in anything. And

00:20:46.730 --> 00:20:50.650
I'll be lucky because even before AI, it gives

00:20:50.650 --> 00:20:53.230
you the feeling you have such a patient tutor

00:20:53.230 --> 00:20:55.769
because you can just watch so many videos on

00:20:55.769 --> 00:20:57.329
the same topic till it's gone into your head.

00:20:57.470 --> 00:21:00.609
Keep pressing, dragging the little... Play, button

00:21:00.609 --> 00:21:03.609
back, re -watch, re -watch, re -watch. And eventually

00:21:03.609 --> 00:21:06.970
it's gone in my head. It is crazy. It's like

00:21:06.970 --> 00:21:11.309
a different world. I did a lot of art through

00:21:11.309 --> 00:21:16.089
all of my education. And I remember doing, I

00:21:16.089 --> 00:21:18.089
don't know whether it was GCSE or A -level. At

00:21:18.089 --> 00:21:20.170
one point they gave me oil paints and they were

00:21:20.170 --> 00:21:21.670
like, here's some oil paints, here's some brushes,

00:21:21.750 --> 00:21:24.890
paint. And I was never taught the techniques.

00:21:25.390 --> 00:21:28.190
It was just go and do it. And then since the

00:21:28.190 --> 00:21:29.890
start of about January, I've started oil painting

00:21:29.890 --> 00:21:33.390
again after a 20 -year gap, whatever. And suddenly

00:21:33.390 --> 00:21:35.630
I can go to YouTube and watch tutorials about

00:21:35.630 --> 00:21:37.450
how to oil paint. It's like, this is something

00:21:37.450 --> 00:21:39.089
that I actually know how to do, yet I haven't

00:21:39.089 --> 00:21:42.009
had lessons on it. And now I can learn techniques

00:21:42.009 --> 00:21:44.230
and expand my knowledge. And it's just there,

00:21:44.390 --> 00:21:48.390
isn't it? It's just really amazing. I think that's

00:21:48.390 --> 00:21:50.210
definitely had an impact on the family history

00:21:50.210 --> 00:21:53.109
world as well. We get lots of bad press being

00:21:53.109 --> 00:21:57.049
modern family historians with art. error -strewn

00:21:57.049 --> 00:21:59.869
trees but I think there's also such a lot of

00:21:59.869 --> 00:22:02.809
really good quality detailed research happening

00:22:02.809 --> 00:22:06.589
and people holding themselves to kind of high

00:22:06.589 --> 00:22:15.450
standards. I think we did well. I'm clearly trying

00:22:15.450 --> 00:22:17.170
to procrastinate and not talk about my family

00:22:17.170 --> 00:22:19.589
history research this week but it's not gone

00:22:19.589 --> 00:22:23.240
well. So what's happened then, Nathan? I decided

00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:27.660
I was going to go back in time, as you have to

00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:29.099
do, because that's what Family History is about.

00:22:29.660 --> 00:22:35.619
And I thought I'll tackle the 1841. Don't get

00:22:35.619 --> 00:22:39.240
too excited. So initially, I think I said to

00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:41.180
you the other week, because I was doing this

00:22:41.180 --> 00:22:43.480
weird side shoot, or as it is, the listeners

00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:47.319
did it for me, the Alexander McKay thing. I was

00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:49.309
like, right, I'll stick with the McKays. and

00:22:49.309 --> 00:22:53.569
I'll go back to the generation of whoever's about

00:22:53.569 --> 00:22:57.789
for the 1841. Instant stumbling block. They're

00:22:57.789 --> 00:23:02.410
in Scotland, aren't they? So I was like, I don't

00:23:02.410 --> 00:23:05.650
know what to do. And that's where I stopped with

00:23:05.650 --> 00:23:09.029
them. You got to the point that you knew you

00:23:09.029 --> 00:23:10.930
were going to have to look in the 1841 census

00:23:10.930 --> 00:23:14.049
for Scotland, and then you got stuck. Yes, it's

00:23:14.049 --> 00:23:19.140
not an ancestry, is it? Well, yes. Kind of, yes.

00:23:19.579 --> 00:23:22.960
Bad man. Not bad. No, this is exciting on two

00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:25.180
fronts. One, because we can have a quick 101

00:23:25.180 --> 00:23:28.180
of how to find Scottish stuff on Ancestry generally.

00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:31.779
And then also the difference between what Ancestry

00:23:31.779 --> 00:23:34.740
has for Scottish censuses and what Scotland's

00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:37.980
people have for Scottish censuses. So this is

00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:41.039
really good advice for anybody, all of us, to

00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:42.839
keep remembering all through our history journey,

00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:46.109
family history journey, is if you're... embarking

00:23:46.109 --> 00:23:49.349
on a new era or a new area in your family history,

00:23:49.509 --> 00:23:51.990
then it's really worth going to Ancestry, going

00:23:51.990 --> 00:23:53.829
to Search, going to the drop -down menu, going

00:23:53.829 --> 00:23:56.970
to Card Catalogue and then putting in the word

00:23:56.970 --> 00:23:58.930
Scotland for you, for instance, Nathan, and see

00:23:58.930 --> 00:24:02.769
what they've got for Scotland. Yeah? Mm -hmm.

00:24:02.869 --> 00:24:04.670
There'll be a great big long list of all the

00:24:04.670 --> 00:24:06.269
record collections they have that pertain to

00:24:06.269 --> 00:24:09.490
Scotland because they're looking quite often

00:24:09.490 --> 00:24:12.240
for the... like the name of the title. You don't

00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.200
want to put in the name of your town in Scotland

00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:16.160
because it might not come up with anything unless

00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:18.299
they happen to have, for instance, a local militia

00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:20.700
list or something for your very small, niche

00:24:20.700 --> 00:24:23.000
area. So just put in a broad brush and then you

00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:25.500
can drill down from there. Record collections

00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:26.700
which are going to be relevant to your ancestors.

00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:28.740
So you can see if you do that, you'll find that

00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:33.000
they have got Scottish. census records but records

00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:36.140
is a bit of a big sketchy word and a record could

00:24:36.140 --> 00:24:37.859
be all sorts of things and lots of people define

00:24:37.859 --> 00:24:40.859
it all different ways so a record could be you're

00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:43.619
sitting in the archive actually holding an original

00:24:43.619 --> 00:24:46.619
document from way back when or a record could

00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:50.500
be a digital surrogate so like a digital copy

00:24:50.500 --> 00:24:51.980
of that census record that you're staring on

00:24:51.980 --> 00:24:53.819
at your screen at home so you can see the beautiful

00:24:53.819 --> 00:24:57.339
old handwriting or a record could be an index

00:24:57.339 --> 00:25:00.039
record so it's just like a little stubby bit

00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.099
with a few of the fields transcribed out couldn't

00:25:02.099 --> 00:25:05.660
it record could be anything yeah so ancestry

00:25:05.660 --> 00:25:08.680
what back to what they have for the scottish

00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:14.509
censuses they have they have 1841 to 1921 But

00:25:14.509 --> 00:25:16.829
they don't have the full images. They don't have

00:25:16.829 --> 00:25:18.470
any images. What they have is a transcription.

00:25:18.809 --> 00:25:21.289
But that can be really helpful because a transcription,

00:25:21.470 --> 00:25:24.910
much as we might go, oh, what a dreadful transcription

00:25:24.910 --> 00:25:27.490
error is crept in there when we're using commercial

00:25:27.490 --> 00:25:31.029
transcriptions. When we are looking at new records

00:25:31.029 --> 00:25:32.390
ourselves, there's every chance we're going to

00:25:32.390 --> 00:25:34.329
make transcription errors. So it's not a bad

00:25:34.329 --> 00:25:36.690
place to start. And it's also you're already

00:25:36.690 --> 00:25:38.569
paying for Ancestry. So you can do a lot of research

00:25:38.569 --> 00:25:41.589
without paying for any more money. Explore these

00:25:41.589 --> 00:25:44.750
potential. Scottish census records, but no extra

00:25:44.750 --> 00:25:47.609
money on ancestry. Note down the details. Then

00:25:47.609 --> 00:25:49.750
go to Scotland's People. You have to buy your

00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:51.509
separate credits on Scotland's People, and then

00:25:51.509 --> 00:25:55.069
you can order down the beautiful census images

00:25:55.069 --> 00:25:57.650
from Scotland's People. That's nice, isn't it?

00:25:57.730 --> 00:26:03.869
It's all doable. Yeah, it's great. But... I'm

00:26:03.869 --> 00:26:08.009
just terrified. I can't make the links. I feel

00:26:08.009 --> 00:26:12.210
like there's some weird, like, hinterland gap.

00:26:12.490 --> 00:26:15.630
where between the generation I've got and the

00:26:15.630 --> 00:26:19.950
generation prior, and I can't connect the dots,

00:26:19.970 --> 00:26:21.869
and I don't know whether it's just circumstantial,

00:26:21.869 --> 00:26:26.549
like, can I remember anything? I think, right,

00:26:26.569 --> 00:26:30.410
the potential parents of Alexander McKay, the,

00:26:30.529 --> 00:26:32.930
I don't know, third, should we say, at this point,

00:26:33.210 --> 00:26:35.950
James McKay's dad, Alexander McKay, his parents,

00:26:36.210 --> 00:26:40.660
his dad was called Alexander. Right. And his

00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:45.279
mum was potentially called Agnes. And Agnes potentially

00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:53.700
died in 1842. At which point then, so the 1841

00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:59.039
is the one before it, only she'll be fairly elderly

00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:02.460
on that one. She won't be fairly elderly. She

00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:06.250
was born in 1807. But anyway, Alexander McKay,

00:27:06.309 --> 00:27:07.849
the one that I know about, has already moved

00:27:07.849 --> 00:27:12.430
out. He's gone because he was born in 1830. So

00:27:12.430 --> 00:27:16.890
I've got a list of children. I might be working

00:27:16.890 --> 00:27:18.470
things out in my head here. I've got a list of

00:27:18.470 --> 00:27:21.730
children that belong to this family, but Alexander's

00:27:21.730 --> 00:27:26.769
not there with them. So I've just got no actual...

00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:30.460
to make me know that these are the right people

00:27:30.460 --> 00:27:32.559
I'm looking for because I don't have a document

00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:37.859
where Alexander is with his mum and dad. At least,

00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:40.220
that's just census -wise, I guess. I guess there

00:27:40.220 --> 00:27:43.460
must be other documents I need to find. Can you

00:27:43.460 --> 00:27:45.680
remind me, so with Alexander, do you have a firm

00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:50.740
birthplace for him in Scotland? Which one? Yeah,

00:27:50.900 --> 00:27:55.500
Paisley. He was born in Paisley. Yeah. So? I

00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:57.859
think there's a few things you need to do. So

00:27:57.859 --> 00:28:01.039
could I just recap to make sure I've got it correct?

00:28:01.299 --> 00:28:05.359
You've got this Alexander, born in 1830 in Paisley,

00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:08.519
but by the time you get to the 1841 census, is

00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:11.119
that correct? He's not with his family? Yes.

00:28:11.420 --> 00:28:13.319
He's a very young boy not to be with his family.

00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:18.000
He's 11. Yeah? Maybe I'm lying to you. No, no.

00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:20.779
I was just checking I understood right, that's

00:28:20.779 --> 00:28:23.059
all. No, there's a good chance I'm wrong because

00:28:23.059 --> 00:28:25.690
obviously... I'm just terrified of the 1841.

00:28:25.869 --> 00:28:29.710
Oh, no, it's not on the 1841. The 1841 example

00:28:29.710 --> 00:28:35.849
I've seen, not having Alexander on it. That's

00:28:35.849 --> 00:28:39.789
OK. Join me. This is where I am. I might have

00:28:39.789 --> 00:28:41.890
mentioned Marianne Pickering, mightn't I? Who?

00:28:42.269 --> 00:28:45.809
I know. She just does that. She just goes AWOL

00:28:45.809 --> 00:28:48.170
halfway through her childhood. Anyway, so you're

00:28:48.170 --> 00:28:50.410
not alone in this. So there's a few things you

00:28:50.410 --> 00:28:53.980
can do. I think the classic thing of... One thing,

00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:56.960
check how many other Alexander McKays born in

00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:00.480
Paisley there are, give or take a year for him,

00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:02.279
so you know how many possible contenders there

00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:04.720
are. The other thing is to research his wider

00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:08.000
family. And by that, there's two particular things

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:10.740
I'd be interested to do. One is to continue to

00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:15.359
search his siblings in subsequent census records,

00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.960
because... the more i know about them and then

00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:20.759
potentially even if i find their marriage records

00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.200
and with scotland it's going to be more expensive

00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:24.799
you're not just doing this as part of a subscription

00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:26.500
you're going to be having to pay for records

00:29:26.500 --> 00:29:31.079
but what that does is you'll be building up a

00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:33.460
picture of all those children what their parents

00:29:33.460 --> 00:29:36.579
um names are what the mothers this is brilliant

00:29:36.579 --> 00:29:39.319
for scotland the mother's maiden names are recorded

00:29:39.319 --> 00:29:42.930
um On the marriage records, you've got the father's

00:29:42.930 --> 00:29:45.710
occupation. So you're getting that lovely, concrete,

00:29:46.029 --> 00:29:49.130
consistent, hopefully consistent picture of the

00:29:49.130 --> 00:29:52.450
details that the family, nearby family, the siblings

00:29:52.450 --> 00:29:54.190
and the parents would have gone under. Yeah.

00:29:54.490 --> 00:29:59.309
And then also look to see what other wider family.

00:29:59.710 --> 00:30:02.390
So his parents, siblings, potentially he could

00:30:02.390 --> 00:30:04.150
be living with an auntie and uncle at the census.

00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:06.680
He could have been an apprentice. He's potentially

00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:08.160
a little bit young to be an apprentice. I think

00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.240
roughly, very roughly, 14 was a good age to become

00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:13.240
an apprentice. But some people were apprenticed

00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:18.740
younger. Yeah. I've just got so many blanks,

00:30:18.740 --> 00:30:21.339
though. Like you say, research the siblings.

00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:24.660
But I actually aren't at a point where I even

00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:26.400
know he's got brothers and sisters because I

00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:28.660
don't have a document with him with his brothers

00:30:28.660 --> 00:30:36.150
and sisters. But being able to say that he's

00:30:36.150 --> 00:30:40.349
not with his family on the 1841 census, then

00:30:40.349 --> 00:30:42.170
you've got a family presumably who you think

00:30:42.170 --> 00:30:48.470
is possibly his. That is true, yes. Yeah. So

00:30:48.470 --> 00:30:50.549
you're right to keep cautious, but that's your

00:30:50.549 --> 00:30:55.250
kind of probable starting point. Okay. It just

00:30:55.250 --> 00:30:58.990
seems very hard. And I know I've been a bit lazy

00:30:58.990 --> 00:31:02.329
about this and keep panicking about it. I'm just

00:31:02.329 --> 00:31:04.009
struggling to make those connections. And then

00:31:04.009 --> 00:31:06.170
the Scotland element of it throws me as well

00:31:06.170 --> 00:31:09.849
because I can research, I can put Paisley in

00:31:09.849 --> 00:31:13.769
the search and suddenly I'm getting names of

00:31:13.769 --> 00:31:16.190
areas that I don't know if that's near Paisley.

00:31:16.230 --> 00:31:20.650
I guess I need to go to a map. But the dots aren't

00:31:20.650 --> 00:31:25.390
connecting as easily as I want them to. And taking

00:31:25.390 --> 00:31:28.220
all the Scottish stuff out of it. I started on

00:31:28.220 --> 00:31:32.259
the Scotland stuff. I got to the 1841. I had...

00:31:32.259 --> 00:31:35.900
His wife is the Jeannie Jane, and we have mentioned

00:31:35.900 --> 00:31:39.980
her before. Well, I found a record of her called

00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:42.019
Johnson, and then I've also found a record of

00:31:42.019 --> 00:31:45.299
her called Johnston. And I know it's only a minor

00:31:45.299 --> 00:31:46.819
difference, but then I was like, oh, my God,

00:31:46.859 --> 00:31:48.859
this on top of everything else is just too much.

00:31:49.740 --> 00:31:52.710
So then I thought... Forget this, I'm going to

00:31:52.710 --> 00:31:55.009
go to the other side of the tree, solid putsy

00:31:55.009 --> 00:31:58.529
people, the Ward family, because I know the area,

00:31:58.690 --> 00:32:01.450
it's nice and easy. I'll take them on an adventure

00:32:01.450 --> 00:32:06.730
through the 1841. And I equally hit the same

00:32:06.730 --> 00:32:09.869
stumbling block. I don't have a way to connect

00:32:09.869 --> 00:32:14.269
my fourth time great grandparents, George and

00:32:14.269 --> 00:32:18.720
Elizabeth, to the parents. I know he's... Dad

00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:20.460
was called George because I think I must have

00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:23.160
had a wedding certificate. But other than that,

00:32:23.220 --> 00:32:28.319
I can't get them together because this guy was

00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:34.400
born in 1812. And obviously by the 1841, he's

00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:36.299
well away and married. And I think his wife,

00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:39.779
well, I don't know. I think this one actually

00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:40.980
might be the one where the wife died the year

00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:44.039
after that census. So I've got nothing in between.

00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.589
Tie them together. Am I being silly? It just

00:32:47.589 --> 00:32:50.470
seems really hard. No, you're not being silly.

00:32:50.549 --> 00:32:54.190
It does get a lot harder. So there's things you

00:32:54.190 --> 00:32:58.829
can do is when you do have a big gap, you know,

00:32:58.829 --> 00:33:02.349
several decades, then you're right to feel really...

00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:05.079
You're worried if you're suddenly leapfrogging

00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:07.799
back or forwards by several decades because there's

00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:09.539
any number of variables that can happen in that

00:33:09.539 --> 00:33:11.400
time and you've got very little. You're doing

00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:14.039
a massive jump with just a few anchor points

00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:16.880
to when you land to know do these go ping and

00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:19.640
match. So you do need to get more information

00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:22.019
and you need to get more information about all

00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:25.269
the other people. For somebody who's born in

00:33:25.269 --> 00:33:27.450
the early 1800s, there's every chance they're

00:33:27.450 --> 00:33:29.670
going to be there for a few censuses. I would

00:33:29.670 --> 00:33:33.950
hopefully make the 1851 census as well and make

00:33:33.950 --> 00:33:37.869
sure I got the 1851 census for all of those people

00:33:37.869 --> 00:33:40.170
before going back. Because sometimes you just

00:33:40.170 --> 00:33:43.609
happen to get, you know, like the mother -in

00:33:43.609 --> 00:33:46.190
-law living with the nuclear family or an uncle

00:33:46.190 --> 00:33:49.250
or you get other family members which help you

00:33:49.250 --> 00:33:52.470
give other clues about places where people might

00:33:52.470 --> 00:33:57.049
be born. wider members of the family to help

00:33:57.049 --> 00:33:59.930
give you more concrete clues about your family

00:33:59.930 --> 00:34:02.470
network. So just I'm reassuring you what I already

00:34:02.470 --> 00:34:05.109
said, but really trying to build out the details

00:34:05.109 --> 00:34:07.890
of the people who are close by to your person

00:34:07.890 --> 00:34:11.829
will really help you find your person. And equally

00:34:11.829 --> 00:34:14.150
going forward, if you know that somebody's born,

00:34:14.250 --> 00:34:17.050
if you've got a parish or village, you know,

00:34:17.070 --> 00:34:20.739
relatively small area. and you've got their name

00:34:20.739 --> 00:34:23.719
and you've got a rough year even if it's an inferred

00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:27.199
year from a census of when they were born then

00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:29.960
going back to those parish registers and don't

00:34:29.960 --> 00:34:31.760
just look for them in the parish registers look

00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:34.780
for all of those siblings because you're going

00:34:34.780 --> 00:34:36.980
to find other babies born to the same parents

00:34:36.980 --> 00:34:39.719
by the same name if you end up with too many

00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:41.420
babies you could be looking at two couples with

00:34:41.420 --> 00:34:43.780
the same names in the same parish but So you

00:34:43.780 --> 00:34:45.260
kind of have to keep your eye out for that. But

00:34:45.260 --> 00:34:47.099
gradually just try and learn about the other

00:34:47.099 --> 00:34:49.119
people because it's not a waste of time. That's

00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:51.719
how you're going to know. You know, if I Googled

00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:53.719
Nathan Ward without knowing anything about you,

00:34:53.780 --> 00:34:56.260
I wouldn't know I had to write Nathan Ward. Whereas

00:34:56.260 --> 00:34:59.139
if I knew one who was obsessed with Pudsey and

00:34:59.139 --> 00:35:01.239
running and family history, I'd be like, OK,

00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:03.559
I've got the guy. This is him. It'd be enough

00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:05.460
to feel really confident, wouldn't I? Just a

00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:07.960
few little facts, three or four words about you

00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:10.570
and suddenly my confidence is really high. I

00:35:10.570 --> 00:35:13.250
think this is my big issue. I keep on prattling

00:35:13.250 --> 00:35:15.070
on about it every single week, how I like to

00:35:15.070 --> 00:35:17.809
have three points that I can apply together before

00:35:17.809 --> 00:35:22.210
I feel happy to be on my tree. And I'm not getting

00:35:22.210 --> 00:35:26.409
the three facts. I'm getting one or two that

00:35:26.409 --> 00:35:29.150
I could quite easily dismiss if I'm not careful.

00:35:29.409 --> 00:35:34.190
And I literally haven't tied any new documents

00:35:34.190 --> 00:35:39.019
to my tree because as much as they seem... Right,

00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:41.300
I'm too scared to actually press yes because

00:35:41.300 --> 00:35:43.940
this could end up just being a tangent where

00:35:43.940 --> 00:35:46.059
it isn't actually anything at all to do with

00:35:46.059 --> 00:35:50.480
my George Ward, for example. Yes. I don't. What

00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:54.340
I think you should do then, so I would go probably

00:35:54.340 --> 00:35:57.239
to Excel and all the details I'm finding, I would

00:35:57.239 --> 00:36:01.460
record what you found, everything, loads of columns

00:36:01.460 --> 00:36:05.539
like the names, dates, places, what you found,

00:36:05.579 --> 00:36:07.559
why you think it's interesting and a potential

00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:10.800
lead. and what your points of concern are. You

00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:12.239
can call the columns what you want, but that

00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:14.980
sort of idea, so you've got all your thinking

00:36:14.980 --> 00:36:17.719
and all the facts. And keep gathering this information

00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:21.179
because those sort of clues, when you're looking

00:36:21.179 --> 00:36:24.260
for people, even if you subsequently find him

00:36:24.260 --> 00:36:27.800
in the 1841 census, when you're going back at

00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:29.820
another point, you'll be trying to find something

00:36:29.820 --> 00:36:32.079
else in that community. The more you're gradually

00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:34.760
building a... pieces of information that are

00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:36.679
going to come in handy again in the future even

00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:38.539
if it's just for ruling things in and out you'll

00:36:38.539 --> 00:36:40.980
be able to say actually that wasn't that George

00:36:40.980 --> 00:36:42.679
Ward nothing to do with me because that's my

00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:44.659
great great great great auntie Sophie's son or

00:36:44.659 --> 00:36:48.780
something yeah don't get confused with him so

00:36:48.780 --> 00:36:52.139
it's not a waste of time writing a record like

00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:57.000
that yeah and also if I if I am in a problem

00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:59.320
and I'm not writing it down I find it really

00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:03.039
hard to coherently think of a way out of it even

00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:05.619
just the process of starting to write down this

00:37:05.619 --> 00:37:07.900
is what I've found and this is why I'm really

00:37:07.900 --> 00:37:09.599
nervous about it and this is why I'm confused

00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:12.599
about it and then your brain wants to help you

00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:14.920
it wants to find solutions it doesn't just go

00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:16.860
oh well then let's just be confused forever it

00:37:16.860 --> 00:37:21.480
starts to try and think of solutions and it stops

00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:23.059
you just going round and round in circles in

00:37:23.059 --> 00:37:27.659
a panic it makes you start to take order of those

00:37:27.659 --> 00:37:31.360
thoughts yeah I think I just need to find, like,

00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:34.760
one positive inroad on the 1841 that makes me

00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:36.719
feel comfortable and confident, and then I can

00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:40.340
work around that. And then hopefully apply it

00:37:40.340 --> 00:37:43.900
to other strands. Nathan, could you share your

00:37:43.900 --> 00:37:45.599
screen and let's have a look at it? Who says

00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:47.599
I'm looking at my tree on my screen? I could

00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:49.800
tell you are, because your eyes just keep glancing

00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:54.539
away the whole time. Yeah, OK. What do you want

00:37:54.539 --> 00:37:56.019
to look at? Do you want to look at George or

00:37:56.019 --> 00:37:58.780
do you want to look at the McKays? Either. Let's

00:37:58.780 --> 00:38:00.039
look at George, because I think the Scottish

00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:02.159
thing is making you even more nervous. And because

00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:03.980
it's going to involve spending money, you may

00:38:03.980 --> 00:38:06.780
as well make mistakes and learn free rather than

00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:08.360
learn crashing through loads of credits. Yeah.

00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:11.800
OK, cool. Not free, but, you know, within your

00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:16.940
ancestry. Right. Yeah. So I've got I think my

00:38:16.940 --> 00:38:19.099
issue here as well is I've probably not fleshed

00:38:19.099 --> 00:38:21.460
out my fourth time great grandparents very well

00:38:21.460 --> 00:38:26.400
either. This is also confusing me. This is the

00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:28.480
first time I've been into Ancestry for a week,

00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:31.659
whatever. And there's this new bit, add DNA matches

00:38:31.659 --> 00:38:34.599
descending from George. It's locked, clearly

00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:36.760
I have to pay for it. And then also, found in

00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:41.760
10 plus Ancestry trees, compare trees. It's making

00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:43.739
me want to get lazy and be like, yeah, I trust

00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:45.380
this information, but I'm not going to because

00:38:45.380 --> 00:38:48.659
that's not how I operate. But it's there, it's

00:38:48.659 --> 00:38:51.840
teasing me. Yes, it's annoying, isn't it? So

00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:55.159
I've got these dudes in the 1851. So this is

00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:58.440
George Ward and his wife, Elizabeth, who are

00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:00.900
my fourth time to great -grandparents. Yeah.

00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:05.320
So I have them in 1851. So that's nice and easy,

00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:06.679
though, because he's got a baby Ruth who's going

00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:10.280
to be one unless she's died. Oh, wow. Got dark

00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:15.619
fast. Baby Ruth. Right, OK. See, instantly I

00:39:15.619 --> 00:39:18.900
didn't even think of that. I'm lazy. For now,

00:39:18.920 --> 00:39:20.900
this is fine. So what you can do, you can go,

00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:22.619
when was the other baby born? So you've got baby

00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:26.519
Ruth born 1840. So you've only got baby Ruth

00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:28.940
to go on. So let's look for baby Ruth born in

00:39:28.940 --> 00:39:32.960
Pudsey. And because when you do this, yeah, you

00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:34.539
can just click on her and search through that

00:39:34.539 --> 00:39:37.019
way. So go to your middle bit where you've got

00:39:37.019 --> 00:39:39.980
the picture of the 1851 England census. You search

00:39:39.980 --> 00:39:42.860
on ancestry. I've never done this. Oh, that's

00:39:42.860 --> 00:39:45.099
good. I like this. Yes, it's good, isn't it?

00:39:45.179 --> 00:39:46.579
I've never done this this way before. This is

00:39:46.579 --> 00:39:49.300
cool. Then you're seeing all potential things.

00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:53.739
Am I filtering by census? You could filter by

00:39:53.739 --> 00:39:56.599
census, yes. I want you to control the search,

00:39:56.659 --> 00:39:58.119
otherwise you don't have a clue what you've done.

00:39:58.579 --> 00:40:01.820
I mean, the top one in my hints there, look,

00:40:01.900 --> 00:40:04.519
she got married in Carver Church. It's looking

00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:06.679
good, isn't it? And it says she was born in 1838.

00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:10.219
If this is looking perfect, Ruth Ward, 1841 census,

00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:13.619
born 1839, Puddy Calvary, let's have a peep.

00:40:13.699 --> 00:40:16.300
If her dad is George and her mum's Elizabeth,

00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:20.559
we're laughing, aren't we? Oh, but we're not

00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:23.820
laughing. It's James and Louisa. So we're not

00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:25.300
laughing. So straight away we know we've got

00:40:25.300 --> 00:40:29.159
another contender. Oh, my gosh. George and Elizabeth.

00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:33.960
Yeah. That's interesting, isn't it? It's very

00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:36.679
interesting. The parish is exactly the same,

00:40:36.780 --> 00:40:39.760
Carver puts it. And that's why you always need

00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:42.039
to know whether there's another contender who

00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:43.940
you could possibly get in a muddle with. Have

00:40:43.940 --> 00:40:46.960
I ever mentioned that before, Nathan? Never,

00:40:47.019 --> 00:40:49.099
never. Well, I should have done, shouldn't I?

00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:52.139
You mention it all the time, but I'm lazy and

00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:53.559
I don't want to research people that aren't on

00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:57.739
my tree. Very excitingly, we found Nathan's multiple

00:40:57.739 --> 00:41:00.599
times great -auntie Ruth as a little baby. She's

00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:02.179
actually down to two and she's got a three -week

00:41:02.179 --> 00:41:06.150
-old brother on there, NK Ward. Yeah. Three months

00:41:06.150 --> 00:41:08.750
old. So he can be added to your tree. So because

00:41:08.750 --> 00:41:11.110
it's the 1841 census, you know, when you're looking

00:41:11.110 --> 00:41:12.869
at later census, you can just go add and then

00:41:12.869 --> 00:41:14.429
you can gradually add all of the people because

00:41:14.429 --> 00:41:17.210
they're not marked down as their relationship

00:41:17.210 --> 00:41:18.989
to each other isn't marked in the 1841 census.

00:41:19.050 --> 00:41:20.690
You're going to have to add it a bit more faffy.

00:41:21.489 --> 00:41:23.590
Yeah, I think, again, that's another reason I

00:41:23.590 --> 00:41:26.710
get scared of this one because it will only let

00:41:26.710 --> 00:41:31.789
me do one at a time. Yeah. Oh, and he's a shopkeeper.

00:41:32.789 --> 00:41:36.199
That's interesting, isn't it? Yeah. Because then

00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:39.659
potentially, I think N .K. Ward, I think that's

00:41:39.659 --> 00:41:42.059
not known Ward. I think they might not have given

00:41:42.059 --> 00:41:46.280
him a name yet. When I saw the transcription,

00:41:46.420 --> 00:41:48.099
I was just like, N .K. Ward, wouldn't it be beautiful

00:41:48.099 --> 00:41:51.900
if he was called Nathan? But then I'm now seeing

00:41:51.900 --> 00:41:54.139
it in context. I think it is a not known. But

00:41:54.139 --> 00:41:55.800
who knows? Let's find out what he was actually

00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:57.980
called. So when you go, you've already got the

00:41:57.980 --> 00:42:00.380
1851 census for that family. So hopefully you

00:42:00.380 --> 00:42:03.559
can find him. as a little 10 -year -old on your

00:42:03.559 --> 00:42:05.619
1851 census you've got for them and he's called

00:42:05.619 --> 00:42:08.019
Nathan. Let's have a quick peep at that. We'll

00:42:08.019 --> 00:42:11.619
save it down. Save him to George or Ruth or whoever

00:42:11.619 --> 00:42:14.019
you're going to save it to. Save this record

00:42:14.019 --> 00:42:19.039
to Ruth Ann Ward. Fantastic. It's looking at

00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:21.699
all of the family members together. None of us.

00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:23.820
You're not being stupid. This is the takeaway

00:42:23.820 --> 00:42:27.440
from today's session. None of us. could confidently

00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:30.000
say we have the right person when we're looking

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:33.360
at an ancestor all by themselves or a person.

00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:36.539
They have the names. Even if they have a place

00:42:36.539 --> 00:42:38.719
correct and an occupation correct, when you don't

00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:40.539
have those family network to join them in, it

00:42:40.539 --> 00:42:42.420
gets harder and harder to feel confident you've

00:42:42.420 --> 00:42:43.900
got the right person. It's not saying you can't

00:42:43.900 --> 00:42:46.320
do it, but you need more and more evidence to

00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:48.519
shore it up to make sure you're correct. When

00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:51.000
you have that matrix of family members, it's

00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:53.659
relatively easy to quickly feel confident, but

00:42:53.659 --> 00:42:54.900
you do have to watch out for namesakes, blah,

00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:57.139
blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think, to be honest,

00:42:57.380 --> 00:43:01.019
it's not laziness. It's time management on my

00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:04.480
part here. I think it's confidence, Nathan. But

00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:07.159
it's like fitting my time in to come and do my

00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:09.460
family tree. I like to press the buttons and

00:43:09.460 --> 00:43:11.480
see the links and be like, yes, confident, boom,

00:43:11.539 --> 00:43:14.039
boom, boom. But now I'm like, right, I've just

00:43:14.039 --> 00:43:16.380
put Ruth in. And in my head, I'm like panicking

00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:18.440
already. Like, oh, my God, I've got to go back

00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:21.199
and make sure I get all them individually. This

00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:23.260
is the 1850 one I've moved on to now. George

00:43:23.260 --> 00:43:26.000
Ward, head of the house, is now a cloth manufacturer.

00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:30.900
His wife is now the shopkeeper. Interesting.

00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:33.159
I wonder if they've got a shop. We've got Elizabeth,

00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:36.420
we've got Samuel, we've got Ruth, and N .K. is

00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:39.739
now known as William. Yes, and he's William Oliver,

00:43:39.860 --> 00:43:41.599
so that definitely was a not -known, so that's

00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:43.900
fun to know that he was not -known. Bless him.

00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:46.920
It's hard choosing a name for a baby. Three months,

00:43:46.980 --> 00:43:49.309
though. Three weeks. Three weeks. Three weeks.

00:43:50.130 --> 00:43:52.369
And they've got six weeks to register his birth.

00:43:52.449 --> 00:43:54.449
So they've got another three weeks to work out

00:43:54.449 --> 00:43:55.769
what they're going to register him as. And he's

00:43:55.769 --> 00:43:58.070
by the age, 10 years later, he's down as William

00:43:58.070 --> 00:44:00.510
Oliver though. Yeah. And we've actually got two

00:44:00.510 --> 00:44:03.750
older siblings, which I don't remember. Were

00:44:03.750 --> 00:44:06.489
they there? We were so busy looking for Ruth

00:44:06.489 --> 00:44:09.050
on the 1841. Those two older siblings should

00:44:09.050 --> 00:44:11.550
be there as well. There's a second Elizabeth

00:44:11.550 --> 00:44:14.010
and a Samuel. Okay, brilliant. That does all

00:44:14.010 --> 00:44:16.590
match up. Oh, wow, my first little foray into

00:44:16.590 --> 00:44:20.449
1851. And you've got more beautiful siblings,

00:44:20.570 --> 00:44:23.170
which you're going to be very careful to add

00:44:23.170 --> 00:44:25.949
to your tree, because when you at some point

00:44:25.949 --> 00:44:28.349
want to start building your out -and -down tree,

00:44:28.510 --> 00:44:33.110
just for your DNA, you've got a whole batch of

00:44:33.110 --> 00:44:35.130
siblings. You've got one, two, three, eight siblings,

00:44:35.289 --> 00:44:38.309
or seven siblings and your mainline ancestor.

00:44:39.170 --> 00:44:45.280
Yeah, yeah. Good stuff. That's cool. That was

00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:48.400
a good way to get into the 1841. Yeah, so now

00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:49.820
let's have a look and see if we can do it on

00:44:49.820 --> 00:44:53.639
another branch. Okay. Or we can just feel happy

00:44:53.639 --> 00:44:55.900
and stop there. What should we do? Let's feel

00:44:55.900 --> 00:44:58.219
happy and stop there because I think I don't

00:44:58.219 --> 00:45:00.780
want to be disappointed. That's a win. Yes, you've

00:45:00.780 --> 00:45:02.199
got quite a lot of stuff there you need to go

00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:04.820
and add to your tree. That 1851, all that data

00:45:04.820 --> 00:45:06.960
you can add easily. 1840 was happy and slow.

00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:10.659
I've already added the 1851. Well done. So that's

00:45:10.659 --> 00:45:13.639
that. I'd already done that previously, but at

00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:16.619
least I do have that data to compare with the

00:45:16.619 --> 00:45:19.519
1841. I'm going to be really rude, Nathan. I

00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:21.039
don't think you have added all of that stuff.

00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:25.400
Why? Because I'm looking at your tree and I'm

00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:29.019
looking at the vertical way and I'm not seeing

00:45:29.019 --> 00:45:31.519
all those siblings added. Wait, where's Ruth?

00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:34.500
Oh, beg your pardon. She's there. She's been,

00:45:34.579 --> 00:45:36.800
yeah. Okay, you have been good. I've been all

00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:39.780
wrong. But Benjamin Ward is the direct descendant

00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:43.800
for me, so Ruth's... Like an auntie, great -auntie,

00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:47.139
whatever. So yeah, I've got them all added. I

00:45:47.139 --> 00:45:50.360
just don't have them in the 1841. That's OK.

00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:52.559
That's really good. That's my easy homework now.

00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:55.960
I can just repeatedly go into 1841. I think the

00:45:55.960 --> 00:45:57.480
thing for me, and it's that meticulous terror,

00:45:57.659 --> 00:46:00.820
is I don't want to have done what I've just done

00:46:00.820 --> 00:46:04.019
and not add the others. And because you've got

00:46:04.019 --> 00:46:08.579
to do it one by one, I need to just keep my eye

00:46:08.579 --> 00:46:11.280
on that. Yeah. Even though this is for, it's

00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:13.639
only three people, isn't it? And then the parents.

00:46:14.460 --> 00:46:16.880
Yeah. That's a good start then, isn't it? It's

00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:19.019
really good. And so I wouldn't worry about Scotland

00:46:19.019 --> 00:46:21.019
for the moment. I think work through your other

00:46:21.019 --> 00:46:25.059
branches in England and then you can keep learning

00:46:25.059 --> 00:46:27.920
without spending any extra money. Get really

00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:30.139
confident about how you piece together the sort

00:46:30.139 --> 00:46:33.760
of clues you get given in the 1841. If you stumble

00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:36.420
on another branch, which seems particularly difficult.

00:46:37.469 --> 00:46:39.789
Spend time thinking about it, but don't get bogged

00:46:39.789 --> 00:46:42.110
down and demoralised. Move on to the next branch,

00:46:42.250 --> 00:46:44.309
because sometimes, as we all know, some branches

00:46:44.309 --> 00:46:46.429
are easier to piece together than others. Some

00:46:46.429 --> 00:46:48.190
branches are easier to get confused on than others.

00:46:48.489 --> 00:46:51.690
So keep working across your tree, and then you

00:46:51.690 --> 00:46:53.170
could go back to the ones you found hard in the

00:46:53.170 --> 00:46:55.449
first place, and you'll have learnt stuff in

00:46:55.449 --> 00:46:58.349
the meantime. Stop and do reconnaissance when

00:46:58.349 --> 00:47:01.150
you get to the record. Just have a proper look

00:47:01.150 --> 00:47:02.809
so that you don't make a wrong judgement, and

00:47:02.809 --> 00:47:05.710
equally so that you can gain confidence when

00:47:05.710 --> 00:47:09.579
the record is... looking correct so give me a

00:47:09.579 --> 00:47:15.199
hint then so obviously I found George Ward and

00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:21.199
Elizabeth on the 1841 but my I think my stumbling

00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:23.559
block is actually not necessarily them and their

00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:28.079
kids it's his dad I found the marriage of George

00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:30.980
and Elizabeth but on that marriage certificate

00:47:30.980 --> 00:47:33.820
it's an older one and it doesn't have father's

00:47:33.820 --> 00:47:35.780
names and occupations on it like the other ones

00:47:35.780 --> 00:47:39.960
do. And I think that's where I found my fear.

00:47:40.059 --> 00:47:45.699
I'm stuck in between those two. So when I find

00:47:45.699 --> 00:47:48.139
myself in this position, I find I actually end

00:47:48.139 --> 00:47:50.699
up doing multiple searches. I'll be searching

00:47:50.699 --> 00:47:53.880
for one person, but I might be... going around

00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:57.360
different record sets, gradually building a picture

00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.559
of what's possible. So you've got your George

00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:04.039
Ward there who's born in 1812 and you've got

00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:06.440
him on the 1841 census with his wife and children.

00:48:06.579 --> 00:48:09.280
Great. But what you're looking at now is you're

00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:12.079
trying to find his dad. So his dad is very approximately

00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:14.960
going to be 25, 30 years older than him. So his

00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.400
dad's going to be very roughly born in, let's

00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:21.480
say, let's say in the 1880s. Yeah, very roughly.

00:48:23.539 --> 00:48:25.420
1780s. 1780s, beg your pardon. So his dad's born

00:48:25.420 --> 00:48:28.860
in the 1780s. So by the time we get to 1841,

00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:32.679
his dad's going to be 60 -something. So his dad

00:48:32.679 --> 00:48:35.059
may well not be alive. His dad may not have made

00:48:35.059 --> 00:48:38.219
it to the 1841 census. You're looking for somebody

00:48:38.219 --> 00:48:41.260
in England. So his dad may have died in the window

00:48:41.260 --> 00:48:44.880
between 1837, at the start of the civil, national,

00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:47.900
big comprehensive databases of death records.

00:48:48.780 --> 00:48:51.300
So his dad may have died between 1837 and 1841.

00:48:52.059 --> 00:48:54.639
potentially have a look your family's so nice

00:48:54.639 --> 00:48:56.480
and static you could have a look for all the

00:48:56.480 --> 00:49:00.000
george wards who died within that window within

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:03.260
your fairly specific geographic area and see

00:49:03.260 --> 00:49:05.440
okay oh there's five of them i could get in a

00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:07.159
muddle with or whatever there are make a note

00:49:07.159 --> 00:49:09.340
of them yeah you can even just copy down the

00:49:09.340 --> 00:49:11.960
details then simultaneously have a look in the

00:49:11.960 --> 00:49:16.199
1841 census ago okay how many george wards roughly

00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:20.309
aged 60 can i find in the 1841 census and also

00:49:20.309 --> 00:49:23.070
bearing in mind 1841 they round down everyone

00:49:23.070 --> 00:49:25.710
over the age of 15 the ages get rounded down

00:49:25.710 --> 00:49:29.469
to the nearest zero or five so if you're 67 you're

00:49:29.469 --> 00:49:32.250
recorded 65 so keep that in mind okay it means

00:49:32.250 --> 00:49:33.769
you have to be a bit more even more a bit more

00:49:33.769 --> 00:49:35.329
flexible in the age you don't know his age yet

00:49:35.329 --> 00:49:37.989
then the third thing i'd do is i'll be looking

00:49:37.989 --> 00:49:41.670
in the parish registers i think you might have

00:49:41.670 --> 00:49:43.710
said you might have his marriage if you have

00:49:43.710 --> 00:49:45.869
his marriage great Otherwise, if you don't have

00:49:45.869 --> 00:49:48.730
his marriage, have a look for his marriage. If

00:49:48.730 --> 00:49:51.829
you know George Ward's born in 1812, if that's

00:49:51.829 --> 00:49:54.110
from a baptism record, hopefully you might be

00:49:54.110 --> 00:49:57.969
having some details about the George Ward's born

00:49:57.969 --> 00:50:01.969
roughly 1780s wife. Yeah, the George Ward's born

00:50:01.969 --> 00:50:05.269
roughly 1812's mother. So you're going to be

00:50:05.269 --> 00:50:07.230
looking at that. And then as well as looking

00:50:07.230 --> 00:50:08.690
for her marriage records, you're also going to

00:50:08.690 --> 00:50:10.739
be looking... In the parish, because you're so

00:50:10.739 --> 00:50:12.739
fortunate to have this very locally based family,

00:50:12.860 --> 00:50:15.119
you're going to be seeing how many George Wards

00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:18.179
are there. I'm born very roughly in this period,

00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:20.860
in the 1780s. I'd probably make it even broader.

00:50:20.860 --> 00:50:26.000
I'd probably go 1775 to 1719. And you might be

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:28.460
unlucky that he's outside that period, but that

00:50:28.460 --> 00:50:30.019
would even give you a handle. You think, okay,

00:50:30.019 --> 00:50:32.199
Ward is a really common name in this parish,

00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:34.519
or actually there's only a couple of nuclear

00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:36.699
families having their children. You're going

00:50:36.699 --> 00:50:39.780
to get a sense for how many there are. And I

00:50:39.780 --> 00:50:43.400
would keep going round, gradually building up

00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:46.300
knowledge and confidence about the potential

00:50:46.300 --> 00:50:48.860
people there. Yeah, and that's how I do it. I'm

00:50:48.860 --> 00:50:50.000
not saying it's right, but that's the only way

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:51.739
I can do it. You can't keep wagging your head

00:50:51.739 --> 00:50:53.179
against the wall with one record collection,

00:50:53.320 --> 00:50:56.019
in my experience, and hope to make progress in

00:50:56.019 --> 00:50:58.000
one go. Some people probably can, but I can't.

00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:00.420
I have to do this round -the -houses situation.

00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:02.739
No, I mean, that sounds like what I'm trying

00:51:02.739 --> 00:51:05.340
to do, and obviously I can't do that. Clearly,

00:51:05.340 --> 00:51:08.460
I need to be a bit more involved in the people,

00:51:08.579 --> 00:51:11.639
and that will hopefully help me. And that's what

00:51:11.639 --> 00:51:13.539
you've been wanting for weeks, so here we go.

00:51:14.579 --> 00:51:18.219
Yeah. It's just tricky, isn't it? But I'll book

00:51:18.219 --> 00:51:20.579
my ideas up and I'll get back to you on this

00:51:20.579 --> 00:51:23.059
and see what we can do. Yes. So that is our homework

00:51:23.059 --> 00:51:25.280
for this week. You're going to be more involved

00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:27.800
in one person and I'm going to try to be not

00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:30.219
involved in lots of people in those photo albums.

00:51:30.340 --> 00:51:34.079
And we will report back in a week. We will. OK,

00:51:34.199 --> 00:51:36.280
so thanks for listening then, everybody. And

00:51:36.280 --> 00:51:39.260
we'll see you next time. Bye bye.