Hi everybody and welcome to Family Tree Talk,
your favourite family history podcast. I'm your
co -host Nathan and with me as always is... Helen
Tuffy. Hiya Helen, how are you doing? I'm really
well thanks, yeah, how are you? I'm good thank
you. It's miserable weather but I'm still quite
cheery so that's good. Yeah, it's good as well
when it's miserable weather because then you
have a good excuse to stay indoors. You don't
have to do any gardening. You can skip out on
that run. Just do a bit more family history.
Exactly. Yeah, it lends itself perfectly to do
a bit of research, doesn't it? Yes. So I just
want to do a quick shout out. This is kind of
like a joke because I think it would be funny.
So the other week we gave a shout out to Tony
who had messaged in and we said about he was
driving. He listened to something like this.
He listened to the podcast driving in his car.
Anyway, he had the shout out while he was driving
in his car. So he's emailed to say that he had
the shout out while he was driving in his car.
So I'm just giving you another shout out. It
would be so funny if he's driving in his car
again listening to us. Great. I hope he wasn't
driving whilst he sent the email though. Yes,
and I'm sure he wasn't. It's just the listening,
the listening. Yeah. Just been silly. Yeah, yes.
So how's your family history week gone? Not well,
I'll be perfectly honest. I've done very, very
little. I'm still floundering. I'm not sure what
I want to do next. I think I need a bit of focus.
It's tricky. I feel like I'm going around in
circles and I apologise for saying this out loud
again, but I got so bored. I wasn't bored. But
I was so in the mindset of getting the names
and the numbers, it became a bit too admin -like.
And then obviously all the excitement of the
Alexander McKay, that was great. And I want another
one of those. Obviously, you can't manufacture
these things, can you? So I'm just going to have
to choose a research task and then hope it's
going to give me a rabbit hole to get lost in
instead of actually trying to conjure one up
out of nowhere. I was chatting to Matt the other
day about some research projects we're going
to do with Family Tree magazine. And this is
unusual for us because normally our work is very
much putting together things for the magazine,
putting together workbooks. We never do any of
our own family history in work time. Family history
isn't part of something that we actually do.
You might go to the FamilySearch website and
take screen grabs for something. And if we're
lucky, we could be searching on our ancestor
to get those screen grabs. Family history is
part of our hobby time, not our work time. But
anyway, these projects that we're going to work
on with Matt potentially, they're going to be
some house histories. And he's like, well, how
long is it going to take, Helen? And what are
we going to find out? And it's just really fun
talking about it because that's the thing. When
you do a family history project, you don't know
how long it's going to take. You could say, I'm
going to spend five hours on it. But what you're
going to find in those five hours could be a
wealth of things or very little. And so you don't
know how long it's going to take to get something
good. And you don't know what you're going to
find. You can't ever promise anything. It sounds
like fishing, doesn't it? You can sit there all
day waiting and nothing. Yes. So I've given him
an answer that I don't know what any readers
would think about this. I'd be interested to
know. So obviously, I'm not a house historian.
I'm a family historian, first and foremost. But
lots of the records that we use for... Family
history, just a quick one on one in case anybody
is new to house history, is exactly the same
as you'd use for house history. So you're going
to be using maps, you're going to be using census,
trade directories, newspapers, all of the things
which pertain to a street or a house or if it's
a house history, obviously could be a school
history or anything, couldn't it? So it's the
same records, but you're just looking at it from
a different perspective. And it can feel a bit
harder to track down the records because you
don't necessarily know who lives there. So you
can't search on somebody's name. A bit like when
we search for an ancestor, we don't necessarily
know where they lived, so the address could be
a surprise. This time we're trying to search
an address and the occupants could be a surprise.
It could be harder to search an address depending
on what search fields the websites have. Right.
So it's all these little things. It's just the
same but slightly different. What is the advantage
of doing a house history search, though? Well,
for a family historian... We're always saying
it's not just names and dates. You want to know
where your ancestors lived. So immediately, as
soon as you get that first record on them, whether
it's a birth record or a census or anything,
it's got an address on there, hasn't it? And
actually taking a moment to pause and even learn
the tiniest bit about that house, that dwelling,
it's going to give you so much insight to their
family. So let's say you've got the address on
the census. You just take a moment and go and
get a map from the National Library of Scotland
website. was built near the workhouse, built
near the poor house, built near the railway station,
built near some smelly factories. And you're
like, OK, they're at that end of town. Or you
might find that their house is near a salubrious,
lovely laid out park in the town. You go, oh,
well, lucky then they got a better card or whatever.
So you can just looking at the map, you can get
a sense of kind of the potential. experience
what is it a noisy place to live yeah how how
crowded the housing are looking at several maps
you can find out has the area changed over time
right so you sort of get in a texture of their
daily life a bit better yeah yeah what was happening
in the world around them nice it's really nice
and that's the simplest thing you could do so
just what i guess first of all on the on a birth
record you're only going to have the address
it's not going to give you any wider clues as
to the place you know it might tell you the place
but it's not going to give you any clues on the
census though you've got your for most of the
censuses you're looking at your ancestors household
plus you're looking at households nearby so if
you see your ancestors household or they've got
10 or 11 people living there in that household
they're obviously that they've got a lot of people
and maybe some of the other households nearby
have three people or five people if it's a terraced
street potentially you know your ancestors are
living a lot more crowded So you can just, just
there and then on that page, you can start thinking,
what can I, what can I tell from this? What's
it telling me about that actual home? It's more
than you might imagine. Okay, cool. That does
sound interesting. I just haven't really made
that leap yet into, obviously I've started doing
a little bit of research about Carver, but I've
actually not really looked into locality and
daily life aspects of my ancestors yet. And even
the street names, when we are familiar with a
place, the street names wash over us and we forget
that most street names have a meaning, don't
we? So when it's called something pastures or
whatever, that was a pasture probably. It might
not be. It might just be a cute name concocted
in modern day. But lots of them are named after
old, when you go back to an old tithe map, say
from the middle 1800s, and then you might go,
oh. That's why it's called whatever close, because
there used to be a field there on the tithe map
and the fields all had names. It's quite cute,
isn't it? Now, we probably couldn't name the
fields near us. You're going to go for a run
with your GPS. It's not going to have the field
names on there. No. It's going to have Upper
Meadow and Watercress Meadow and Cow Lane and
all these other little agricultural descriptors,
which the old fields had. It's cute, isn't it?
It is. I mean, I like that for like... When you
see you're in a village and it's called Station
Lane and then at the end of the street there's
a pub called The Railway, there's the station.
It's like there's never been one, but obviously
clearly there must have been. So that is helpful
to do that sort of research and think, oh my
word, how different the world was. So back to
your point, this is, God, what's family history
like? You say one thing and it's literally like
a domino journey, but you don't know where the
domino journey's going. So your point about you
don't know, you want to find something cool,
but you don't know how to go about it and you
just... That's what it's like for all of us.
You have to just do the research and then sometimes
you strike it lucky with an interesting chapter
of somebody's life or an interesting ancestor.
And sometimes you don't. You have to just keep
going. Yeah, definitely. I just want to get lost
in a little bit of a mystery or find some texture.
And everybody's probably bored about me talking
about George Horatio Nelson, but I loved getting
lost in his life. Like he wasn't an ancestor
I knew about particularly. I knew the name because
obviously it's an interesting name. I didn't
expect to do a deep dive on like him. Oh my God,
deep dive. I've turned his way out. I didn't
expect to like, obviously just get really involved
with him and learn about his family and his life.
And that one really did have a lot of texture
and I could chronicle his life and his journey
because of all the deaths around him and then
his parents and et cetera. And I love that. And
I just haven't been able to fully recapture that
feeling anywhere else on my tree. I am secretly
searching for it, but. You can't manufacture
it, it's just got to appear, doesn't it? I have
ancestors like that and it partly feels annoying
because it's partly due to the paper trail that
gets left behind. So those are my grandpas and
my... Great grandfathers, they all served respectively
in the Second World War and the First World War.
And so suddenly I got such a lot of information
I could find out about them. And if I go to them,
I have so many lovely little faded old documents,
even though probably there's loads more I could
do. I'm not saying I've done loads, but in comparison
to my other ancestors, I've got loads of information.
And they're part of units, like named units that
I can then research further. And so there's such
a lot I can do with them. And then even though...
It's not how I wish it to be. And even though
I'm really lucky, I've got lots of family stories
handed down on the female side. The paper trail
for their wife is just, it's just desperately
poor. Yeah. Even, and that's even in the last
century, within the last century. Right. Hard
work. Yeah. And it's, yeah, so it's partly luck
with each ancestor, partly. what has survived
in the historical record partly what sort of
person were they like you know I kept wittering
on about my two times I think it's my two times
great uncle Alexander what's he called no James
Linton I can't remember his name now anyway a
few weeks ago the one who got caught thieving
and so he's pretty much a side branch but I found
so many things for him because poor chap he kept
falling on into difficult circumstances sometimes
through his own making sometimes just through
fate But it meant there was lots of information
about him. So I now have much more information
about him than I do some of my more direct ancestors.
You can't choose. You just can't choose. No,
he's just really curious, isn't it? Again, I
need to probably spend a bit more time looking
through my mum's documents because there was
so much stuff about my granddad. As I mentioned
last time about the whole thing, he used to play
the piano and nobody seemed to know that he did
that. I've got quite a lot about his. past and
history but part of me is almost dismissive of
it because he's my granddad and I knew him and
I remember him but the details that I've got
like I've found like his retirement speech from
when he finished work and I've got documents
from he was an electrician and he's got like
his notebook and he's like how he was learning
the craft and he made his own notes in it really
small details of his life that are actually really
cool But because it's more recent history, I
feel like I should ignore it, which is, it's
a silly thing to think and I won't do that. But
it'd be nice to spend some time searching through
that stuff. It definitely would. And you just
say an attrition, but you think that when he
would have started training, so I don't know
how old your grandpa would be. I suspect he'll
be a bit younger than my grandpa. So was he born
in like the 1930s? He was born in 1915. So your
grandpa's older than my grandpa's? Really? Weird.
But my family has, all of us have such close
together generations. So your elderly grandpa
who's older than my grandpa's, then, so if you
think when he would have started to join the
workforce, so by kind of 1930 through the 1930s,
he'd be a young man working. So if you go, I
looked in the local archives for... just to read
about our parish when we first moved here. And
in the 1950s, there was this great big debate
which went all on and on in the parish, what
do you call it, the local parish minutes. And
it was about were they going to put an electric
light in the phone box or not? Yeah. And so we
take all of this for granted that there's electricity
all over the place and we would not take it for
granted that there's a live phone box where you
can make a phone call in anymore. They're now
little mini volunteer bookshelves, aren't they?
somewhere to keep medical equipment in case someone
has a cardiac arrest. So that's a whole social
history thing which has happened. Those phone
boxes have evolved. And so originally, I think
it would just be a little shelter which may or
may not have a light in it. Clearly from our
village, they wouldn't have had a light for a
while. Then they think a light is a good idea.
They add the light. Then they've got more and
more kind of glass protected and more formal.
I can even remember through my... Life then turning
into better phone boxes and the famous red phone
boxes, which people buy and then ship out to
different places around the world who like cultural
icons. And then now they don't exist anymore.
Yeah, I know. It's crazy, isn't it? You sort
of go, what's the word? It's not conventional
wisdom, is it? What's the phrase where we're
just blissfully unaware of anything? Nathan's
daily life. I think that is all of our daily
life. But that's why it's so fun. Even though
you say you know about your grandpa. If you actually
went back and then found out, so if he's an electrician
through that period, it's exciting. He'll be
putting in wiring into houses that have never
had electricity. Yeah. Yeah. So the people who
he, that would have been met with a mixed reception.
So even in my own family, my granny, when she
got, apologies, I've already said this on the
podcast before, when my mum was about six, so
in the early 1950s, then the house they were
in got. electricity they'd never had electricity
before so bearing in mind my granny's now got
three children and the fourth one is going to
come along soon in the next few years she's had
three children with no electricity no appliances
no white goods to make her life easier anyway
they get electricity and when my grandpa came
back from work that day my granny had all the
lights on in the house because she was so excited
it was just this blaring it was just a little
house but the lights were blaring and there's
like another little northern nod and they'd always
go oh it's like blackpool illuminations but So
there's things which my family, probably lots
of families say that, that my family always say
this. And then I just realised that's a little
really northern phrase because they used to live
up in Liverpool and they would go on holiday
around that part of the world. That's where they'd
go on holiday. So that was just their cultural
thing. But I'll say, oh, it's like Blackpool
Illuminations to my kids, which they won't know.
We've never been there. They won't know what
it means, but it's our little northern family
history heritage phrase when someone's burning
too many lights. That's funny. To me, that just
sounds normal. That's just a phrase. Is it? Yeah.
Is it? It's funny, yeah. And then Jim had a great
auntie and she had electricity put in her house.
So Jim's grandpa said to the great auntie, you've
got to have electricity. You've got to get with
it now. It's the 1970s. So she had electricity
put in and she only ever used one light bulb
for the whole rest of her life. And I don't think
she died till the 1990s. So your grandpa, back
to your grandpa, you do not know anything about
him. You knew him as a person, but there's going
to be so much that you can have a massive heap
of fun finding out about him. Yeah, definitely.
And I've literally just clicked on his profile
in Ancestry. And actually, it looks quite sad
and embarrassing because there's so few details
about him. Generations back, I've got more links
and more ties. And obviously, each census gives
you occupations and locations. my granddad just
looks he was born he got married and he died
that's literally all that's there so it's it's
actually quite sometimes you want to cry Nathan
we've got to do work on this yeah it's just strange
though isn't it because the urge with family
history the urge is to get backwards so you you
kind of scare I think I said it last week I haven't
actually got my great aunts and uncles because
they don't appear on censuses and I haven't thought
oh I need to add these people that I actually
talk to because some of them are still alive
it's weird And also, you're not alone in that.
We're all really guilty of it. We're guilty of
it about ourselves, going, oh, no, no, no one
wants to know about me. And we're guilty about
it with our parents, because we think, oh, I
can remember all of that. I can remember, you
know, however old you are, you can remember most
of your life, apart from the first five or so
years. So that's a massive chunk of your parents'
life as well, you can remember, once they've
had you. And we do just do that. We do not record
all these things. Yeah, the guilt. It's seeping
in. It's not supposed to be guilt. So does he
work for an electricity company? I mean, you're
asking me questions now, aren't you? Who made
a retirement speech? Definitely later on in his
life he's working. He's not a one -man band.
He's working for a company then, isn't he? Unless
he's talking to himself in the pub on retirement
day. It must have been a company. I have only
vaguely flicked through these books, but the
proper official training manuals showing you
how to do the job, and then he's had to make
his own notes at the side of it. So I've got
his thought process of how he's learning his
trade. People must have thought he was a magician,
I guess. Bringing magic of light. Yeah, OK, I'll
do some more research on this. It's quite an
easy, nice one. It feels like a wet weather kind
of task as well, just sitting with that trunk
and going through... I did find some sort of
registration document for him as well, a little
card, which I wasn't actually going to bring
up now because I can't remember exactly what
it is, but that seemed intriguing. I don't know,
would that be tied to the 1939 register? Did
they get little identity cards or something?
They did get identity cards, yeah. Without seeing
it, I don't know what it is. It could be an identity
card from the Second World War. It could be just
an identity card so that if he's calling around
people's houses, he's kind of got credibility.
I think I've got one for him and my grandma.
So it must have been something national. And
then, see, there's always a connection with family
history. So when you're saying what's the point
of house history and learning about buildings
and things at the start of this conversation.
So with your grandpa, and because you are such
a locally based kind of person, heritage speaking.
then that would be really worth you looking in
local history groups, either online, you can
look in local history Facebook groups, you can
see if there's a local history organisation near
you, you could go to your local archive and find
out the places he was working and look up and
just read and see what it has to say about electricity.
Because all those utilities sound kind of...
but they make a big difference to people's lives.
I know I would have said that before because
I feel really strongly about it. And I'm the
worst person for remembering to give meter readings
or do anything like that. I'm not excited about
utilities on a day -to -day basis, but from a
family history perspective, they're really interesting.
When did running water come to a town? Yeah,
it's just all the things we take for granted,
isn't it? Which is what I was trying to say earlier
about being oblivious. It's just in our lives.
That's crazy, that story that you were saying
about one lightbulb. 1991, that's bonkers. I
can't remember which year it was in the 90s,
but definitely in the 90s. Right. Yeah, really,
really crazy. I guess going back to my grandad
as well, as much as I'm desperate to get further
back in the tree, despite my fears of the 1841,
I should... This is obviously common sense, it's
daft to say it out loud, but my grandad is my
children's great -grandad. They never met him,
they've got no clue about him. So there's going
to be a point where maybe they get interested
in family history and they want to learn about
him. And I don't have the documentation to do
that. Whereas at the moment, I've got aunts and
uncles and my mum that I can actually talk about.
So I can do the research and actually ask questions
to people that actually might know the answers
and then flesh them out a bit more for future
historians in my family tree. It does mean sensible
things to do sooner rather than later. As soon
as nobody's about, if I, you know, morbidly speaking,
if it was just me researching this and I found
these music certificates, it wouldn't mean anything,
would it? It's like start fabricating a crazy
story. So definitely ask... the people's memories
of him, whether any funny stories, any habits
he liked, any food or drinks he particularly
liked. These are nice things to know. Yeah. He
was a proper character. He was a proper blagger.
Like, it actually makes me feel a bit embarrassed,
like, when my mum tells me some of the stories.
The girl watched the rugby and, like, despite
my mum being in her 20s, my grandad would, like...
make her pretend she was under age of 16 or whatever
to get her in as cheap and he would do this everywhere
they went and try and yeah just just blag anything
he could I'm the exact opposite though I'm so
like I'll abide by every rule yes yeah well we're
not we're not necessarily like our ancestors
but that's a that's a good thing about them because
you get so many you if you just know about a
few ancestors then or a few family members, you
may feel really connected and bonded to them.
Or you may feel as though, oh, why am I so different
from my family? And then the more people you
learn about, the more you bond with your family.
Because you just, you realise you're a whole
bunch of people and having a whole bunch of cards
dealt to you and you all deal with them differently.
But it's bonding. Yeah. Yeah, how we are connected.
It's lovely. I like your grandpa project. And
even just taking a photo of all of those documents
or anything which is relevant to him with your
phone and then adding it to Ancestry, to his
gallery. Are you happy to do that? I am. Well,
yeah, it's just a different project then as well,
which might make it a bit more fun. And it's
not anything kind of private or not anything
which is... As soon as something is a little
bit private or is going to cast somebody in a
bad light or like... relates to somebody who's
still alive, then obviously you need to be much
more judicious about what you upload to Ancestry.
But if it's just to do with records of him being
an electrician or playing the piano, that's innocent.
It's not going to get it out there and get it
shared and it'll maybe spark a memory from somebody
else. Yeah, definitely. Flesh out his life a
bit. Yeah, this sounds like quite a nice project,
actually. And so by those certificates, it sounds
like he got... Kind of potentially school exams,
like grade one, grade two or whatever. Maybe
that's what they are. Maybe. I haven't investigated
them very far at all. Initially, I was also quite
dismissive of them. I was like, he never played
any music. I don't remember any of this. But
obviously, what do I know? He's got a whole life
I know nothing about. This is where you're going
to go to the local archive and you're going to
say what you're trying to find out about local
electricity in the area, electricians in the
area. about the Ward family. And then you go,
actually, have you got any information on blah,
blah, whatever his name is. And they'll go, someone
will go look in their database and they go, oh
yeah, he used to play down the Swan Inn. He was
fantastic on the piano. Every time there was
a celebration or a wedding or a funeral, you
just couldn't get him off the keys. And you're
like, I never knew that. It's possible though,
isn't it? It is possible. Shall I tell you what
I've been learning about this week? Please do.
I've learned a bit of Latin. Latin? I know, I
know. Latin ADM? Exactly like that sort of thing.
And honestly, I did do a tiny bit of Latin at
school and I was appalling. I could never get
my head around it at all. I was always having
to stand at the front and just be shamed. That's
my overriding memory. So I didn't have any...
Nice memories of it and zero knowledge renting
because I was too busy being embarrassed, which
kind of made my brain freeze and I couldn't learn.
Anyway, so you say about George Horatio Nelson,
with my grandpa's logbook, I'm still working
on the logbook. But because he worked for a squadron
in the RAF, they have these gorgeous Latin mottos.
And so I knew the main Royal Air Force one, which
is. Per ardua ad astra. And I knew that already.
So that means through adversity to the stars.
I mean, that's such a good motto, isn't it? Yeah,
that's great. Yeah. It always makes you think
of like reach for the stars. But anyway, I like
it. So that's just the whole Air Force one. Then
the 413 squadron that my paternal grandfather
was in, that motto was ad vigilamus undis. which
means we watch the waves. And then when I've
been going through, I'm just, I feel like such
a clunky head. Like, why did I not know this?
I've always come, I've come at it completely
backwards. I've got the log book. I'm trying
to decode the details of these like small little
bits in it, but I hadn't thought to zoom out
and find out a big picture. So I've only done
that this week. And so the reason why their motto
is we watch the waves is because for one... three
squadron their kind of reason for being in the
second world war was they were searched and rescued
and that's why in his logbook he keeps going
searching for lifeboats it's because that was
their job all right why did i not know this so
that's such a kind of family historians like
we always say with you with history it's always
about the generals and the kings and the big
battles whereas i'm like what does this code
say on page seven and i didn't even know what
the whole big squadron's purpose was so i'm trying
to build out my as you always say, my contextual
knowledge to kind of put his life, make it make
more sense of it. And another thing I felt really
stupid about, I've seen lots of pictures of Catalina
aeroplanes, which is one of the main ones he
flew. And I knew he was very fond of having flown
in them, very proud of having flown in them.
They were the ones I'd mainly associate with
him. But they're so big. So I've seen pictures,
but I haven't really ever looked for pictures
of people next to them. They're massive. They're
about... I don't know if this means anything
to anyone else, they're about four or five times
as big as I thought they were. But you just know
how big I thought they were in the first release.
But if you know how big a Catalina is, then you
know that I thought it was a fifth of that size.
I blithely thought I was going to be finishing
this project sometime soon, because I'd scanned
in the pages, I'd got my map, I just needed to
add the pages to the map, add on each little
pin, add a picture of the logbook to the pin,
a little description, I was like, boom, sorted.
But then... It's not going to be finished anytime
soon. I've got partly loads of unit history to
learn. This RAF unit history partly is a lot
more in -depth because obviously each page doesn't
just have one data point. It has maybe seven
or eight lines, seven or eight journeys in some
instances per page. There's a lot of journeys.
I've got a map. But I think I might have to start
doing another project just for the sake of anyone
who listens to the podcast. They don't have to
hear me mention it ever again. So I'm not going
to mention it ever again until I've actually
signed off on it. But I will do other things
in the meantime so that people's ears don't get
worn out. I mean, I won't hold you to that. No.
Next week you'll be talking about it. I'm very
jealous. I really want some RAF ties. I really
want to have aeroplanes in my family tree. Every
time you talk about it, I'm just like, hmm, I
want to play. So that'd be interesting what your
grandpa did if he's born in 1915 and he's an
electrician. So he's a really useful guy. So
by the time we get to the start of the Second
World War, he's 24. So he's perfectly placed
to be helpful. So what did he do in the Second
World War? I don't think he did anything. He
would have done something. He wouldn't be allowed
not to do anything unless he had a physical condition,
which is going to stop him being helpful. He
would have been helpful. He had a very loud laugh,
so it would give away position if he went to
war. Could it be no good for espionage then?
Do something else. On the 1939 register, he's
down as an electrical engineer and in brackets,
fitter. So without looking in the chest to find
out any more details, that's all I actually know.
I don't know what he did in the war. He got married
in 1940. I've got a massive gap, haven't I? I
need to do some research. And so even by the
time you get to 1940, that could be helpful because
his occupation on the marriage certificate, obviously
it's very much self -determined. So he's going
to put down his occupation as he wishes. So sometimes
our ancestors just embellish their occupations
a little bit. But he could put down his normal
line of work or he could have been called up
and he may give clues to a military line of work,
even just on his marriage certificate. This is
fascinating. I've never even thought about him.
and him in context of World War II. That's weird,
isn't it? Cool. Well, there you go. How old was
their first child? What age children did they
have? Without giving away, you don't have to
tell me, because I don't want to give away details
about your mum or anything, but was there a big
gap between when they got married and when they
had any children or not? Well, again, going into
bad lad category, I haven't put my father's brothers
and sisters on the farmer tree. I literally have
ignored present day completely, so I haven't
a clue when they were born. Let's have a think
about this. Don't say it out loud, though, because
it's going to be living people's details, which
will be too traceable. OK. You're going to mull
in your head. What I was trying to get at...
Late 1940s, I'm going to say. Yeah, so that's
interesting if it's late 1940s, because then
that adds... It's just a tiny... It's not even
a pebble of information. It's another grain of
sand information that potentially he was serving.
If he's away, then... there's not going to be
children being born on the whole. I want to make
up a story. Yeah. I think he was involved in
making tanks. I don't know why. I actually, as
much as I might be joking, I actually, the reason
that's come into my head is I think it might
be true. I think that Fitter clue as well. That
sounds super interesting to me because definitely
Fitter is something to do with aircraft, but
it might be to do with other things as well.
Right. This is this week. Normally we get nice
messages from people listening to the podcast
and they tell us lots of interesting things.
And then this time it's probably going to people
going, you blooming idiots. It's obvious, but
it doesn't feel obvious to me yet what you're
doing. So just Googling this. It says a fitter
is. A skilled professional who assembles, installs
or adjusts machinery, equipment or materials.
So it doesn't specifically say it's aircraft,
but I do know you do find it in the context of
aircraft. I'm just trying to raise your hopes
that you've got an aircraft connection. Stop
it. See, in my head, fitter is someone who just
pushes loads of wires around the house to make
it work. But I've got no reason to know why that.
I think that. Wow. So I've got a lot of current
history stuff to do then. That's very, very interesting.
I know my grandad on the other side was a gunner.
So, but like, oh no, I'm making stories up now.
I want to say he was along the coast, a man in
like anti -aircraft guns, defecting the nation.
But again, I don't know the full details. It
is one of those ones where, oh yeah, your grandad
was a gunner. And I'm like, okay. But I never
actually have bothered to ask more facts. Bad
lad. It's not bad. It really isn't. It's what
happens over and again. The thing, I wish I'd
asked them and the people who are close at hand
and also the people who live through it. Partly
they're modest, partly they want to move on and
not talk about. stressful chapters. You think
of the 1960s, so they barely got out of the Second
World War and then the rationing continues into
the 1950s. By the time you get to the 1960s,
everyone's like, oh, we don't want to hear about
that. We're building new high -rises, we're wearing
mini -skirts, it's all about the future, isn't
it? Yeah, true. And whereas now we're quite a
nostalgic age in lots of ways, even though we're
high -tech, we kind of yearn back. Yeah, make
it simpler. Well, this is interesting. It's probably
going to be a good thing to spare me on this.
I'm actually quite excited about this idea. Actually
talking to real people and actually getting some
information and not being, oh yeah, I know my
granddad. That's from both sides. I need to flesh
out their lives a bit. That sounds really good.
So when you talk to the real people about the
other real people, then how are you going to
go about this? And how are you going to... like
keep track of what you find out I'll probably
take a handy and trusted notebook with a lovely
lovely ballpoint pen and it's not a ballpoint
is it it's liquid and yeah just make notes as
I go I think if I start talking to my mum about
it she'll make me get the computer out and actually
just want to sit with me and go through everybody
which might be useful but everybody else I'll
just record On paper. Or if I'm meeting with
people, I guess I could just record a little
note on my phone, like a voice note, and then
somehow transfer it. I don't know. I'm guessing
here. Is this a good practice for interviewing
people? Yes, there are. There's lots of tips.
You can just have chance conversations. It depends
how well you know the people and how... It depends
on lots of circumstances, like the health of
the person, how well you know the person, how
important it is you get the information. So to
be blunt, if somebody's in a poor state of health
and time is short, then you're going to want
to use that time in a really pinpointed way,
aren't you? And you're going to have to proceed
gently because they've got limited energy. And
so you're going to have to be sympathetic and
diplomatic, but not take your eye off the ball
that they've got precious family information
that is at risk of being lost otherwise. And
it's a really hard thing to do. It's really hard.
It's the hardest thing. In an ideal world, none
of us put ourselves in that position. We try
and talk about these things while everyone's
still in a good state of health, when time's
on our side, when we've got time to revisit conversations.
People can have time to reflect on things we've
asked them and then we can ask them about them
again and they can add to the story. So the first
kind of thing which I think is really useful
is you might have some key bits of information
you want and that's completely fair enough. but
you are interviewing them about their life and
their memories. You're not interrogating them.
So you're not like on a BBC Radio 4 programme
where you're interrogating an MP or something.
You're talking to a relation. So it could be
that they persist in not wanting to talk about
an area and people have their own views and sensitivities
and interests and everything else, so don't pressurise
them. unduly you can kind of gently draw them
back to something if you think they've overlooked
it but if they clearly don't want to talk about
it that's their prerogative and it might be annoying
but I think you've got to respect that because
they'll have reasons close to their heart where
they don't want to talk about something so you're
interviewing not interrogating that's one thing
I think is really useful and the other thing
is The flip side, because I'm such a control
freak when I talk to people, is just let it go.
Let the conversation flow because people will
have loads of interesting things to say. And
they will say things that you wouldn't even known
to ask about. And they could be some of the most
interesting things. So let the conversation flow.
Try and ask. People say that is open questions,
which can give them time to meander. Another
tip, have props. So old photos. Yeah. Right.
Yeah. They'll think they don't know anything.
If you ask somebody their first bat, they'll
go, I don't know very much, I don't know anything.
And then you just give them a moment, give them
a prop. Yeah, I find that works, actually, because
obviously I've said the other week I've got some
old photographs. And from, I guess when you put
someone on the spot and say, tell me about family
history, they're like, oh, I don't know where
to begin. Whereas, like you say, you see an image
and it's suddenly, oh, that's Aunt Sally and
she did X, Y and Z. All this information that
she never would have brought. out without the
prompt of seeing that image it's a good way to
go cool I feel like I'm making myself extra busy
here but it's all valuable stuff isn't it I might
not be getting back any further if I follow this
through but I'll actually have created a bigger
rounded picture of my grandparents and you could
just it's hard isn't it because we all want to
do so much there's so many things you want to
accomplish but you could just say right I'm just
going to concentrate on One of my grandpas. And
I'm just going to speak to everyone who can help
me with this grandpa. And I'm just going to keep,
let the conversation wander off. As I say, they
might come up with loads of other interesting
things. But your focus is, what can I find out
about my grandpa? What facts about his career?
Any clues about his Second World War experiences?
And just nice memories and anecdotes. And that's
it. You could have a few conversations and you
could... Gain a wealth of precious things that
you wouldn't be able to find out. Some of them
are tall elsewhere and some of them not very
easily elsewhere. Right, cool. I think it's nice.
Yeah, nice. It is a nice little project. It's
quite nice as well to let people remember as
well, isn't it? Like, I don't think about my
granddad day to day, but I've shared the picture
on our podcast page of him in his run gear. And
just sharing that with my cousin and then obviously
my aunts and my uncles and then my mum, et cetera,
have seen it. And then they all just go, oh,
your granddad would have been so proud of you
too. He absolutely loved sport and he'd been
there at every run if he could have been and
all this stuff. Things that he obviously couldn't
do because he's dead. But it's nice to have that
context and you remember who he is and like actually,
yeah, he would have been really proud. And that's
quite a nice sensation. If you don't think about
that idea, it's different. Definitely. I don't
know what I'm waffling on about now. Change of
subject, just because I'm mentioning the podcast
page, I've had a message from Sarah who did the
amazing research from Alexander McKay last week
or the week before. She has said we can share
her research spreadsheet. So I will be putting
that on the webpage. So go check that out. Use
the content library to find it. And it just shows
you how cool her research was. She's really good
with the context thing as well. Like I said it
the other week, she's put like historical events
down the side so you can actually see where the
ancestors fit within the time frame. So you'll
be able to look at that. That's good. And just
to quickly explain to people if they're not sure.
So to find what Nathan's just said, to find Sarah's
lovely resource, you go to family -tree .co .uk,
press the button that says content library, then
in the little search bar. press the word podcast
or you might see the podcast item listed up near
the top of the page of items and then press on
there and then Nathan's put, actually we're putting
resources, aren't we? Photos that you're talking
about, links to Nathan's wonderful Excel sheet
and now Sarah's Excel sheet too. It's going to
be Excel central. I mean, Sarah's puts mine to
shame. Mine's just literally a blank document.
This is just stunning. I love it. But it's really
useful to learn how other people do things. So
thanks to Sarah and to you as well for sharing
yours. Hmm. Hmm. Cool. So should we go off and
do some work now? We should do some work, shouldn't
we? Yes, we should do some work. Yeah. Yeah.
You're going to tell me all about your grandpa
next week and I am going to talk about something
else apart from the love book. I mean, I don't
believe you, but yeah, go on then. We'll say
that's what's going to happen. Yeah. Okay, thanks
for listening, everybody. Happy researching,
guys.