Hello everyone and welcome to Family Tree Talk,
your favourite Family Tree podcast. I'm your
co -host Nathan Ward and with me as always is...
Helen Tovey. Hi Helen, how are you doing? I'm
very, very well, yes, thanks. How are you? I'm
okay, thank you. How's your family history going?
It's going bionically. Bionically? I like the
sound of that. I know, well... Unless the robots
have taken over. Well, they are helping. Yes,
they are helping. Yeah. So, well, back at the
start of the year, what I've always done in my
life is I always hope that I can do many, many
more things than I can actually do. And so at
the start of this year, as I just dial it down,
Helen, focus on a few meaningful projects that
you're going to be happy with that you've accomplished
by the end of the year. And then. Try not to
get distracted by rabbit holes. I have, of course,
got distracted by rabbit holes, but just keep
coming back to these four goals. And so I kind
of made them one a season, one spring, summer,
autumn, winter. Yeah. And the first one was my
grandpa's logbook, which is a bit like Mary Ann
Pickering. It's one of those things I've said
six billion times. If you had a word cloud about
me, my grandpa's logbook would come up. There's
the great big word. But I made a start with it
at the beginning of the year. And I. Kept running
into the sand, partly due to problems with the
AI and partly to do with problems how I was using
the AI. Anyway, things have moved on because
AI is progressing rapidly. I've learned a little
bit more about how to use AI better. And we're
now getting traction. So just last night at six
minutes past 10, I actually generated a world
map with all the places where he flew through
the Second World War. plotted which is that was
like my first little baby steps goal so anyone
who's good at tech will go oh my life why has
it taken her six months to accomplish this but
it's one of those things with family history
we have to do so much work behind the scenes
so first of all I had to transcribe up his logbook
and I wanted I was obviously I could do that
manually but I wanted to use AI to help me Just
as an exercise in AI, thinking, you know, how
could it help me? I do actually really like transcribing,
so a little bit of me was sneakily a little bit
sad that AI was going to be helping me with this
because I love the laborious, reflective nature
of manually transcribing something. Not literally
manually, I'll do it with typing, but, you know,
me as a little human sitting there doing it.
So getting AI to wrap through the pages, I felt
a bit like it was taking away some of my calming.
task bit of family history that I enjoy. Anyway,
it did it and it was a mixed bag, but on balance,
it was helpful. I've got this transcription,
which I've checked and then because I'm neurotic,
I double checked it again. So that was another
two hours of my life because I thought this is
worth, I'm going to be generating lots of things
from this material. I really need to make sure
those facts are straight before I go off and
ask it to do X, Y and Z, it being AI. So then
I've been asked and now I've got this transcription.
I've got this body of really usable data like
when it's just in the little paper his little
paper notebook it's not very easy to work with
whereas now I could just I uploaded the material
from the workbook and meant extract me a list
of place names extract me a list of all his operational
flights as opposed to his training exercises
so now I can just drill down and cut up all the
little bits of information to get really fun
little stories and insights. And they're not
made up stories like, oh, it was a beautiful
summer sunset and off he flew into the sky. It's
not that sort of story, but literally just using
the data to go, okay, these were his operational
flights and this is where he flew. And so now
I'm at the stage, I need to find out how far
AI can help me with this. I have been asking
to get the information about models of planes
in particular. types of aircraft and it has some
aircraft type, the name and the model number
all through his log books. I've got, I don't
know, countless, maybe like 15 different sorts
of aircraft. That's really cool. Wow, he flew
them all? Yes, yeah. Not being a pilot in all
of them. Some of them he was like a warrant officer.
I've learned jargon, WOM, he's Warrant Officer
Mechanical, so he was, that was his role in lots
of them. Some of them were just little two -seater
things. Some of them... He was a gunner and you
could see the little turret where he'd had to
sit at the back. That was in like a Blenheim.
I think he had to do that. And an Anson, which
is terrifying. You've got this little glass roof
above your head. You're pointing backwards, so
you don't even know what's coming up ahead with
the aircraft. And you're pointing backwards,
trying to defend its tail. It's terrifying stuff,
isn't it? Yeah, it does sound cool as well. It
does sound cool. So now I've got the point. I've
got my lovely map. With all the plots pointed,
and then for each of the plot points, I want
to add images of the relevant airplanes, and
I want to add images of the original logbook,
because then people can read those pages and
then have a little narrative summary. And then
my dream, which I will be able to get AI to do
at some point, but I don't know how to do it
yet, is to get some of his flights were just
like an hour, but some were 12 hours long. Sometimes
you fly for 19 hours in a day, yeah? Wow. I mean,
I presume he had to stop for fuel. I have no
idea about these things. But he was up in the
air a lot. But I want to get a representation
of the dot for each hour is one second. So you
can see the dot travelling across the globe.
Like one, two, for all the hours. That'd be cool,
wouldn't it? Yeah, all of this sounds amazing.
It sounds like a really cool little... I've actually
made progress. Yeah, no, that sounds brilliant.
You've done well. Yeah. Like, just going back
a little bit, you were saying about when you
were doing the transcribing, you felt a bit sad.
Does that make you feel a bit more withdrawn
from the text? Like, if you were transcribing
it manually, you'd be literally reading every
single word, so it's like you're reading the
story as you're putting it together. Yeah. Has
it removed that from it? If I'm really honest,
in the sense of this logbook, kind of no, because
there are lots of... acronyms and boring code
numbers to transcribe which I think is one of
the reasons why I chose this particular project
to help get a computer to help me transcribe
it because it's lots of like W8427 which is the
model of one of the aircraft or whatever there's
a lot of that and there's lots of military acronyms
so it's unless you know what the acronyms mean
which on the whole I don't know what they mean
that it's not exciting reading it's just lots
of code. Right, okay. You've converted it all
to actual usable, searchable data, though. That's
great, isn't it? It is. And one thing I've really
noticed, I don't know if it's just because I'm
using a different model. When I was trying to
do this at the beginning of the year, I was using
ChatGTP, and I was trying to have my program,
my project I wanted to do, and it kept coming
up with alternative suggestions at the end of
every... I'd ask it to do something, and it'd
go, and I can also do this. And it was kind of...
A total, somebody like me who's prone to rabbit
holes, it was a worst kind of friend. It's the
kind of friend you don't need. You kept kind
of inspiring me to go down other rabbit holes.
And I've since learned that's because of, I should
have known this already probably, the AI models
trying to be sticky. They're trying to make you
stay on them. They're trying to make you do the
equivalent of doom scrolling. So having really
long conversations with them, because obviously
that's, they can learn off you while you're inputting
all this data. It's really good for their kind
of commercial. vibe that they can say people
you use them a lot and stay on have long sessions
but as you as a researcher your time is precious
so you need to be really in charge of it do I
want to spend this time or not as humans that's
what's our most important commodity isn't it
we've only got 24 hours each day yeah definitely
and with with that chat gpt thing what you can
do is just ask it not to ask questions at the
end and you yes yeah And then it will just be
like, okay, I'll just chat with you when you
want me to chat or whatever. So I went over to
Gemini because it's so good at transcriptions.
And then Gemini, whether the algorithms changed
or whether I was more terse with it. So it was
like, oh, this isn't a chatty person, but we'll
chat. Anyway, it's been much less rabbit hole
inducing. So it's good. Nice. I've only used
Gemini to convert wine labels from French to
English. That's a very useful use. Yes. Yes.
I feel so educated now. Another thing I did.
So I have the most shocking handwriting to the
extent that I can't read my own handwriting half
the time, which is a bit of a drawback. But so
whenever I'm in meetings like now in a podcast
or meetings with authors, I'll be jotting notes
down and sometimes I can't read them. Anyway,
I thought I'll just. give it a go. And so I just
took photographs of pages from my notebook. And
obviously you have to be really mindful it's
not including any details of any living people,
anything sensitive like that. But when it's just
to do tasks, things I have to do. And then I
did find that it transcribed everything perfectly.
Yeah. That's hilarious. So AI can read your own
handwriting better than you can. Yes. Yeah, that's
what I was saying. We are lefties though, aren't
we? Yeah. So it's been all about the AI for me
this week, really, I think. Yeah. And I have
been working on lots of fun projects for our
Family Tree website, which we launched in May.
And that's really cool. So we have this, if you
go to our website, it's family -tree .co .uk.
And if you go to the content library, which I
think is mine and Nathan's favourite bit, because
in there you can find everything we have. So
you can find guides. which might be really in
-depth blogs with loads of different information
all on one subject, really coherent. It has like
a nice contents list so you can see what's on
the menu and hop to the bits you want. So I've
been gradually writing new pieces for the website.
That's exciting. I've been writing one recently
about family history organisations and societies
and groups. That made me very excited. Again,
just need more time in the day to join all the
different sort of organisations that there are.
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It's such a big hobby,
isn't it? It's crazy. I was thinking that today,
just looking through the different websites and
all the information that I actually don't know
and all the websites that I don't use properly.
It's crazy. But we're all in that position, aren't
we? But we don't need to be the expert on everything.
I think probably what we need is we need to know
where can I go and find this information and
where is a reliable source of information. Yeah.
Yeah. That's that's what we need to be able to.
And then we can go and get that information when
we need it to help us. Yeah. Time effective.
Yeah. Yeah. So if you were looking, let's say
you were stuck on your family history, where
would you go to try and get some information?
Where would you think is this is going to provide
me with reliable, credible, safe information?
I'd go straight to the hints on ancestry. Would
you? No, that's sarcasm. Of course I wouldn't.
That's dangerous. I would use the search on the
ancestry, though, but obviously with a bit of
caution and obviously checking my facts. I keep
saying that I like to have three related data
points if I'm going to say something's correct.
So I would do that. Obviously, I would go to
free BMD, birth, marriage and death, if I'm looking
for one of those things. And what else do I use?
Well, I use the GOV for ordering those things.
Well, that's it. That's my safe zone. But obviously
there is like Fire My Pass, which has obviously
got the newspapers, which I'm slowly creeping
into that. It's got a really good search engine,
that one, actually, hasn't it? I don't know.
Where else? Where else, Helen? So I think it's
interesting listening to your answer because
your answer wasn't at all what I was expecting
or guessing at. That wasn't where my train of
thought was heading. So I guess what I was thinking
about is we... As family historians, we can't
know everything. And even if we do read about
it, we can't necessarily remember everything.
But when we are taking another step into potentially
new territory or a new time period or a new record
collection, where would we go to find out about
it? So for me, I'd say the National Archives
Research Guides is something which people say
time and again, and they're never going to stop
being popular. They're always useful. They'll
give you comprehensive information, and it could
be about... people who served in the Royal Navy,
or it could be about a particular, you can search
by time periods as well. So it can be about a
topic or a time period. So I'd search for, look
for the National Archives Research Guides. Mentioned
it before, the Family Search Wiki. So that has
150 ,000 plus different articles. I'd look on
there. I would look on the Family Tree website,
which I just mentioned, because it is really
credible, good information. It's a much smaller
body of information. But what we're trying to
do is keep it really, really useful and think,
what do people actually get stuck on? What do
they actually need to know about? So it's kind
of, that's where it's coming from. And then we
all point people off to the research guides and
the wikis. Because there's no point in us reinventing
the wheel. No, well, our website is very practical
and real, isn't it? It's coming from the standpoint
of what do people want? where are they going
to go and we'll show you how to do it so i like
it i do like our website that probably would
be mine say if i didn't know what i was doing
but then i've got you so it's cheating so i'll
probably just go i'll just ask helen well i wouldn't
rely on me that's a really hit and miss thing
to do and then i just mentioned a moment ago
the blog i put about um did about the family
history societies and organizations that's a
really good hub place because then from there
you can go and find organizations and groups
which you can Totally relevant to your geographical
area that you live or that your ancestors came
from or subjects, lines of work or religious
affiliations they had. So that's to find groups
relevant to all of those sort of things. That's
good. But you sounded a bit nervous that you
didn't know everything. I think I'm feeling increasingly
nervous I don't know everything. And I think
the more we see that's out there and the more...
I don't know that AI helps. I think it makes
you almost lose confidence. It's just such a
big subject, isn't it? And there is a comfort
zone that you're in, or I'm definitely in, and
it's like the safe bits of ancestry using the
census. I'm very happy there. That's my happy
place. How do I get back quickly? But obviously
now I'm hitting that point where I am getting
nervous because I'm at the 1841 census, which
is a little bit more dangerous than the other
one. In my opinion, should I say. and you can't
take all the information from it as readily.
You have to be a bit more meticulous and the
information isn't free -flowing. That scares
me a bit. And then it is, like, obviously every
single conversation we have, there's always somewhere
else you can go to and something else you can
look at and then some more texture you can add.
So it comes from initially, like, you've just
got names and dates to suddenly you've got an
entire community that you're creating. And it's
great. I love it. you can get lost and a bit
dazzled by it all quite quickly. I think you
mentioned this before, but for you saying about
sticking with, say, ancestry, find my past, things
like that, there's absolutely nothing wrong with
that. And then so when you go to the search interface
and you've got all those little search fields,
if you just scroll down or there'll be a link
somewhere which will say read more or whatever,
and then you can just click that and then read
about the 1841 and then you can find out what
could you expect to find in the 1841 census.
What can you not expect to find? What potential
hazards there are? Yeah. Yeah. It's all useful
stuff. It is. I've just been a bit lazy and scared
about going further back. But I keep finding
things to distract myself with before there.
But it's coming, isn't it? I'm going to get to
that point where I need to dive into that stuff.
Did you, when you, because I start. talked at
the beginning about how I'd set myself these
four goals and so that's why it's breaking news
I'm I'm just about finishing the goal for the
first quarter of the year we're just about ending
the second quarter of the year but never mind
but I have been working on the second goal of
the year as well so I feel like all my life I'm
actually on track so do you which is I so I do
set myself goals and I quite often miss them
but that's why it's groundbreaking news for me
to be actually roughly on track so do you set
yourself goals and think right over the summer
I want to accomplish this in my genealogy At
the start of the year, I did. I was going, obviously,
to do my, get all my third time's great grandparents.
And I've achieved that, but I didn't set myself
another goal beyond that. And I think that's
probably why I'm sort of milling about a lot
at the moment. I don't have an actual direction.
I'm just latching onto things or finding little
hints and going off on a little adventure. Sensibly
speaking, I should try and get all my fourth.
Which I probably will. Yeah, when I say probably
will, I don't mean I'll find them all. I meant
that's the task I'll give myself. So yeah, it
does help, doesn't it? It gives you some direction
and some focus. It just gets harder, doesn't
it? The further back you go. Gosh, I'm lazy.
You're not lazy. You're not lazy. I'll do it.
What you've been really good at, which I think
definitely me and maybe other people in times
gone past, when we started doing our family history,
we'd very much stick to the core lines. And if
we stumbled across siblings, then we would add
those siblings that we stumbled across to the
tree. But we wouldn't necessarily do an exhaustive
search for all of our direct ancestors' siblings
as we went. But I feel as though you have been
much better at thinking, have I got the whole
family before moving on to the next bit? Do you
feel as though you have? I totally disagree.
Yeah. I've been looking. I don't even have some
of my great aunts and my great uncles on my tree,
which is daft because I know who they are and
I've got lots of information about them quite
readily. So there are definite gaps, people that
I just haven't bothered to put on. But as I do
find people in the censuses, I am adding them.
Maybe it's why I've got that generational gap
there because obviously a lot of them don't really
appear on anything. Apart from maybe the 1939.
Maybe even then, not on that. Maybe I'm doing
that. The thing for me I have found is the more
interesting people when I'm looking for stories
or events, they always seem to be the aunts and
the uncles and the cousins. It's never the people
on my direct line that give me the adventure
stories. So that's what's drawn me to the side
shoots. And do you think that's just because
they feel novel? Most likely, yeah, definitely.
People that I've not heard about, and then it's
like, you kind of want to, like, I want to dazzle
my mum and my aunties and stuff like that, and
be like, oh, look at this person, you didn't
know anything about this person, you've never
mentioned them. It's nice to share a story, isn't
it? That's not been heard before. Whereas I think,
like, obviously my mum's done the family tree
before, so she's quite good at the direct line.
She seems to know them really well, still recalls
it all quite quickly. It's just nice to do something
a little bit different that hasn't been looked
at. I definitely think for me, the sharing the
story bit, that's always exciting. That's why
I want to create the map of the logbooks. I feel
as though if I just digitized the logbook and
made it into a little flickable through digital
thing and put it on my website, I feel as though
lots of my relationships have to work too hard
to have fun with it. Whereas if I can, so I've
digitized all the pages. So if I made like a
PowerPoint, for instance, and I have, they can
flick through and see all the digitized images
of the PowerPoint. But if I can link through
to a Google map so they can see where the Cocoa
Islands were or and they can see what plane he
was flying in the Cocoa Islands. This is better,
isn't it? Yeah. And with just two simple things.
And then if I could say a little fact about this
is what his role was in this bit, he would have
been having to do this on this sort of plane.
Then suddenly this is worth a bit, huh? oh this
is worth my time yeah yeah to be honest it's
nothing to do with me and I want to see it I
am obviously a bit of an aviation geek but it
just sounds like a really cool project cool well
that's that's encouraging to hear you say that
because that that's that for me the sharing bit
And then somebody actually being interested is
phenomenal. And it's not to be taken for granted.
So anyone else is going to be interested in what
we do. Part of us, we don't mind, do we? Because
we find it so fascinating. And I don't know why
I do family history. I do it because I love doing
it. I find it calming, fascinating. Couldn't
think of not doing it. Always wish I had more
time to do different projects. It takes me painstaking
and painstakingly slow. I'm always... I'm too
slow at it, but anyway, I'm slow at it. But yeah,
sharing is definitely one of the things why I
love doing it. Yeah. Like for me, like if I've
mentioned it to my kids, I'll get a grunt or
a, oh yeah, or an okay. They don't care. And
then randomly I'll mention it to someone or somebody
will mention it to me and want to know the details
and actually are invested in my little stories
and that. It actually, I find it quite jarring
and shocking. I'm like, oh, right, you actually
do want to know this. And then I start reciting
stuff and it's like, oh my God, I actually do
know this as well. It's a very strange sort of
place to be. We've got a really cool project
coming up later in the year. People are going
to start hearing about it soon. And we're working
with Jana Hellstein. main thing is about genealogy
for our descendants. So she's really, really
keen on the fact that we don't just have family
history doing it for us. She's really keen on
the fact that we hand on stuff, memories, maybe
items we're lucky enough to have, a sense of
ourselves and our values, all of that sort of
thing. We hand it on to future generations. So
sharing is crucial. It is. It's very interesting
because like... Last week I met up with my mum
and my auntie and my uncle and obviously I started
talking about family tree stuff. I shared their...
My auntie and my uncle's child is my cousin.
Obviously that's a stupid thing to say. Anyway,
we're both runners. So I shared a picture of
my grandad running with my cousin because he'd
not seen this picture and he was interested and
he started going off on one like, why haven't
I seen this picture before? This is brilliant,
blah, blah, blah. So we all started talking a
little bit about family history. And I did a
little bit more digging in my mum's family history
trunk. And there were some certificates from
the London College of Music for my grandad. And
they didn't tell you anything on them about what
they were for. So I was quizzing my uncle. I
was like, do you know what grandad did musically?
He goes, oh, no, he wasn't into music at all.
And I'm like, well, I've got two certificates
that prove otherwise. from the London College
of Music. So it evolved a long conversation that
then eventually transpired that they had a piano
in the house and he'd totally forgotten about
it, but he'd never seen his dad use it. And then
my mum chimed in with a bit more information.
It turns out, yeah, he really loved playing the
piano. So it was such a weird conversation. You'd
think this information would be known, but it
could quite easily get lost, couldn't it? If
my uncle, who doesn't know his dad, enjoyed playing
the piano and my mum hadn't chimed in. then that
information will be lost. It's like I've got
these weird certificates that mean nothing. Yes.
About getting on for 20 years ago, I did a half
marathon. And when I did it, I'd never run that
far in my life. I'd run eight miles before then.
And I did it with my cousin, actually. And so
we both were running this half marathon. Neither
of us had run that far in our lives. And we were
like... Well, eight miles is our personal best,
so that's how untrained we were for it. And if
we managed to run it further than eight miles,
we were like, fantastic, that'll be our new personal
best. So we ran and we managed to get to the
end and we got our little medal that everybody
gets when you do this sort of event. Anyway,
I've now kept that and it's in one of my memory
boxes. But probably even my kids will have forgotten
about this. My grandkids certainly won't see
me as a runner. I don't even own a pair of trainers
you could go for a run in. And so... That will
be a mystery to them because they'll be like,
nope, nope, she never went for any runs. She
couldn't run. So I'm now a living example of
your grandpa's piano situation. It's curious,
isn't it? Just small details of your life that
can be overlooked. Whereas for me, that was a
massive achievement. A dying consummate for ages.
You should be proud. Yeah, I was very proud.
Well, I'm still proud, but it feels like a different
person did that. You could do it again, I'm sure.
I don't think I'm going to. I have no intention
to. I have so many more things higher up the
wish list. I think we're going to train you up
and then next year I'll take you out for a half
marathon. I don't think so. The amount of training.
I would never get any more family history done
because I'd have to be doing so much training
to move me from where I am now. That is true.
It is an undertaking. So I've been talking to
people recently about where they store their
family history. So are you in the stage, you've
got your notebooks, you've got your genealogy
journal? Yes, that is my primary information
storage point now, to be honest. I'm very, very
bad on my digital files. Apart from updating
Ancestry itself, I don't really use my digital
research log at all, which is very, very bad.
I'm trying to evolve a little bit and try and
get as much on Ancestry as I can so that actually
in essence becomes my research log. I'm not saying
I'm doing a good job of it because I'm not, but
that's my intention. Then I can just log into
it wherever I am and then I can go to the notes
or the comments and see what I'm thinking and
where I'm going if something were to just crop
up. Yeah, my main document is my genealogy journal
now and then the notes that I have in between
which are just... scrolled madness, basically.
But hopefully the journal sorts that out. Do
you know, you definitely shouldn't feel like
you're doing a bad job. Partly, if you're doing
any family history, I think that's a great job
to hear. Anyone doing any family history, that's...
Think of all the things that you could do while
you're on planet Earth. Family history's got
to be one of the best things you could do for
every reason. Like, just for mental health, I
think it's genuinely good for people's mental
health to have a bigger... perspective of our
time than just the time we live in. That can
be quite calming to realise there's always been
troubles and woes and we keep going. I think
that's an important thing to take away from family
history. And it's just a fun puzzle on the kind
of flip fun side of it, isn't it? So you definitely
should feel like you are, if you're doing family
history, you are doing a good job and you are
by nature a conscientious person. And you do
do lots of things that I've told you to do that
I don't necessarily do myself. So you dig well.
Yeah. and it feels so so we work Nathan and I
work in different offices and the office that
I work in a few times a week has loads of people
there maybe like 160 people all different age
ranges I'm definitely on the older age range
there And what I really notice is lots of the
people who are much younger, so people in their
20s and 30s, they have beautiful notebooks on
their desks with their big flasks of water. And
I always feel so impressive. And so it's literally
like a little mini digital detox sitting there,
this paper notebook with a nice pen. And we are
little humans. We're made of real things. And
I think we do like, I think, the Genie Analyst
Journal on the one hand. That paper notebook
is very old -fashioned. On the other hand, it's
cutting -edge digital detox. It's nice. It is.
It's lovely. It's just taking that time out to
be away from the screen, isn't it? Yeah. Even
just writing itself. I mean, I draw and paint
and stuff, so I do generally end up scrolling
or doodling all the time. But it is just nice
to actually do the proper art of actually just
writing something down instead of just typing
it. But yes, life is chaotic, isn't it? So yeah,
you should be proud when you get to do some family
history. I struggle at the moment. I feel so
busy, but I'm doing small things and then I'm
like, it's not enough, but at least I have done
something. Like since last week, all I've done
is write up my notes. I say my notes, the notes
that the listeners gave me about Alexander McKay.
I've gone back in, I've written those notes up
so that they're now on Ancestry. So I've got
the marriage for Dorothy and Alexander and the
marriage for Alexander and Jesse, which I had
before. Anyway, bits, all those bits and bats.
And then the only thing that I've managed to
try and do is look for the birth of a child between
Alexander and Jesse, because that was like one
of my last remaining missions for this section.
I couldn't really find it. I did a search where
I thought, right, maybe the child was born illegitimately
and that's why he got married. In my head, again,
I've made up a story where it was a marriage
of convenience because they'd had a child and
that's why they got divorced, because it wasn't
meant to be. Yakety smackety, blah, blah, blah.
So I went for like a year or two earlier than
the marriage just to see if that was going to
happen. And I actually found a birth of a child
in 1927, which is the year they got married.
So it does tie, but going back, if you remember,
I found a bunch of McKays in Middlesbrough and
they were having children every two years. Well,
this is a McKay in Middlesbrough. So part of
me thinks, oh, it's tied to that. But then I
was like, I need to find out. So I should probably
go and buy the digital image. So I went to the
GOV to buy the digital image, filled all the
information out. It came up. it won't actually
let me buy a digital image, it will only let
me buy a certificate? Is that a common occurrence?
It is, but if you wait till next year, maybe
the year after, you'll be able to get it. And
the reason is because there's a 100 -year closure
period on those, just for people's security and
their personal privacy, isn't it? So they don't
want to be readily giving away... the JPEGs,
you know, just for three quid. So there's a 100
-year closure period for the birth records. There's
a 50 -year, so because he was born 1927, then
that's within the 100 -year closure period. Yeah.
All right. That's cool. And for death records,
it's 50 years, which takes us to 1976. And then
for marriage records, it's 75 years, but marriage
is slightly different because they don't have
the digitised marriage registers. So you have
to pay the £12, don't you, to get a marriage
certificate. But it's all got the 75. It's not
just for England or Wales. There's the 50, 75,
100 year period. You find that in Scotland on
Scotland's People. You find it across other websites
because we know as family historians, you can
piece together a few clues about a living person.
quite easily yeah definitely yeah yeah right
that's that's good to know then I thought I was
doing something wrong I thought oh maybe the
website's broken or something weird's going on
but it will literally only let me buy a certificate
and being the type person I am I'm like this
is a side shoot this is a proper rabbit hole
I don't really need to know this Interesting.
So you could add a little note to yourself or
if you've added the person provisionally to your
tree, you could add a little note to them or
add a note to one of their parents and say, if
you do it as a note, then only you can see it.
It's not like a comment. So on your ancestry
tree under the mother, you could say this is
potentially their baby. This is a volume page
number. And then I need to check back in 2028
and see if I can order this. Yeah. Yep. Definitely.
Yeah. I feel like I need to put a full stop on
this. It's a side shoot search. We've done well.
We've found some good information. Here's an
interesting one. I think I've done this before
as well. But last week, one of the listeners
told us that they'd found Dorothy McKay's marriage
after Alexander McKay died. Do I put that on
my tree? She's not a blood relation to me. And
obviously he's really not a blood relation to
me. Do I? Well, I mean, it's not wrong to put
it on. Because we're all part of a massive network,
aren't we, of marriages and remarriages and children
and blended families. And even if your family
didn't have any blended families or any remarriages,
it's still part of a network. The other side
branches, we all network together. So it's not
not connected. You can keep adding those nodules
onto your tree. Perfectly legitimate. The button's
there to do it. I suspect I probably would add
it to my tree. And the reason is because you
and a helpful listener have done that thinking
power. They found them. And then otherwise at
some point in the future, you might find yourself
dabbling in that area again because 10 years
time, 20 years time. And if you've got some information,
it seems silly not to record it in an easily
findable way. spend time on something again in
the future there's too many other things to do
yeah I guess if I'm forgetful in the future I
go to the 1939 census not census register and
I see Dorothy and she's got the her name crossed
out and it says me I'm going to be like oh what's
that what's this marriage but yeah right I would
add it and I and you can even write in the notes
you can say I've added this so that I don't um
we tread all ground in the future just add a
note to yourself or let's say you were going
to bequeath your tree, because our ancestry,
you can set up someone who you're going to hand
your tree onto. Let's say you can bequeath it
to one of your kids. And then you can put a note
in there so that when you do eventually pop your
clogs, they inherit your ancestry tree. They'll
go, why on earth has dad included Dorothy's second
husband on here? And then you put a note just
to save me time. Yeah. Yeah. I guess there is
another part of me. Oh, this is deep psychology
now on my part. If I put him on there. Ancestry
might then be like, hey, there's some hints here
for this guy. Do you want to research these hints?
And it's like, all right, okay, he's nothing
to do with me. But equally, if I put him on there
and I don't have any sources citing what he's
done, it's going to affect my tree score. So
then I'm going to end up researching him and
have a completely different tree that means nothing
to me. Well, or you could just add the information
about him then as a note in Dorothy, but don't
actually add him. And then you've got it in an
organised, findable way. Don't want to ruin my
train score, do we? Well, add it to your research
log. Just don't rely on your brain. That's what
I'm trying to say. Write it down somewhere. Write
it in your genealogy journal. Do whatever you
want, but put it down somewhere. I am being silly.
I will add it to my tree. I really don't care
about tree rating anymore. It's still at 9 .9,
by the way. I don't care about it, though. It's
because... It does that refresh thing. It's never
going to go up unless I do something like pay
for more. I'm quite happy for it to drop as long
as my facts are correct. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I
feel like that was like a mini therapy session
for me then, just that little instant. Talking
yourself down and going it's okay about the tree
score. It's all safe. We're good. Yeah. Yeah.
So what are you going to do this week then? I
endeavour to go further back. I think I'm going
to make the bold claim that I'm going to start
looking for the fourth time great grandparents.
In fact, I might as well stay on the path I'm
on. I love the McKays, don't I? But anyway, the
McKays, I'll follow them back. I'm pretty sure
that Alexander McKay, who's James McKay's dad,
James McKay is... The rogue Alexander McKay.
That's his dad. But I'm pretty sure that Alexander
McKay's dad... Oh, my God, there's too many Alexanders.
Anyway, his dad's called Alexander. I've got
a hint of that, so I think I'll trace that and
see if I can get some fourth times. Nice. I also,
though, feel guilty because I'm pretty sure I'm
missing a couple of dates with a third -time
great -grandparent. So maybe I need to investigate
those. Hmm. Which way are you looking at your
tree? Are you looking at your tree on Ancestry
as a, like, vertically or horizontally? I'm not
looking at my tree at all. I'm totally focused
on talking to you right now. Are you? I just
don't believe you. No, I'm not. I am looking
at my tree. I'm looking at it vertically and
it's a right mess. And I'm just a bit confused.
Did I set myself the goal of getting my second
time great grandparents at the start of the year?
Or was it third? I think it was your third. I'm
a bad lad then because I've got quite a few that
don't have death dates. Interesting. I'm very
confused right now because I thought I'd made
that my challenge. This is why I should have
had a research log. Do you know what? I actually
did record all this information on my research
log so I will know what my challenge was. I was
just going to say, if you're looking at your
tree vertically, look at your tree horizontally
on Ancestry and then you can... You could just
see your direct lines and then you can quickly
click through all of those people and quickly
see who you're missing dates for. That's actually
really calming. I've just done that. Yes. Right,
so I've got death dates for all of my great -grandparents.
Birth, marriage and death. Yeah, yeah. I'm missing
a few little bits. Right, okay. No, I found all
the death dates for the second time great -grandparents.
I found all the third -time great -grandparents,
I just don't have death dates for them. So I've
got two options. I can try and claim all these
death dates for the third times, or I can sneak
away and try and get some fourth -times people.
Or I could do both. I imagine some are going
to lead to the other. When you start researching
one person, you inevitably end up finding the
parents on the sentences. Obviously, I am in
the danger zone of the 1841. You could do it,
Nathan. There's a lot going on here. This is
stressful. So, yeah, that's what I'm going to
do. Something around there. I'm going to be very
quick. And we'll find out next week what you
actually did. Yes, I won't hold myself accountable
in any shape, form or way. OK, that sounds good.
I think that sounds realistic. Yeah. Yeah, I
mean, what sounds realistic is I'm probably going
to end up doing nothing. No, you won't do nothing.
I'll tell you what, I'm going to give the readers
a few surnames and a few names and they can do
it for me. That was brilliant. That's my favourite
research. Which is more meticulous than my own
as well. They were impressively meticulous. Oh,
I love it. Clear and orderly. I love that. So
proud of them all. Brilliant. Yeah. Obviously,
I'm going to do my own research. I'm not that
much of a bad lad. Cool. What about you? What
are you going to do then? So I am going to finish
off over the next week. Between now and the middle
of next week, I'm going to finish off the logbook.
So I've got to add the pictures of the scanned
in pages and the logbook. And I've got to add
a picture of the aeroplane and a little tiny
sentence or two. And at a glance, kind of exciting
little mini micro story so that when I show my
brothers this interactive map and they can click
and see all these pictures and these places in
the world and the aeroplanes, potentially my
kids, but definitely my brothers will be interested.
they actually feel like, oh, this is exciting.
This is interesting. Yeah. I'm really jealous
of that project. So that's what I'm going to
do because then the next few weeks after that
get really busy and suddenly I'll be breaking
my goal and I won't accept my goal. So it won't
be perfect. I won't have achieved the goal perfectly,
but I will have achieved it enough to make a
shareable fun project. Yeah. And as soon as you
share it with someone and they get excited about
it, that'll spur you on to finish it off or tart
it up even more. Yes, I might do a little PowerPoint
with it as well. Yeah, not with me talking and
them having to be a captive audience. I'll make
it into a little video so that they can do it
as quickly as they like. So that's me. And then
I've got to move, my next goal is, yeah, the
old photos. There's still loads of old photos
I haven't scanned in. Yeah. That is fun though,
that one, isn't it? That's nice. It's really
fun and very rabbit hole -y. I loved it. Like
just that small thing of sharing. I think this
is what I was talking about before. sharing that
picture with my cousin I didn't expect the reaction
that he gave I just thought like oh yeah that's
cool but then he actually started asking me all
about my family history and how far I got back
and where are we from from like he wanted to
know it's like brilliant yeah yeah it was great
I was so shocked that he engaged me with it in
the way he did it was cool yeah yeah yeah I'm
doing as bad as you know I'm just writing a note
to myself what I'm going to do so I don't forget
it We're there. Goodness. I hope everyone else
is having a more clear -headed time than Nathan
and I are. Our heads just swimming with all the
things we have to do, all the things we want
to do. And it's tough, isn't it, to get it into
each day? It really is. I mean, I think that's
the moral of today's podcast. Don't beat yourself
up if you don't get as much done as you want
to get done. As long as you're doing a little
bit. As long as you're doing a little bit, as
long as you're writing it down, you're doing
good. Oh, you had to throw writing it down in
there. Only because I've sung so much that I've
never written down and it makes me sad, so I
don't like to think about that. Don't be sad.
Yeah. Okay, well, thanks for listening in, everybody.
Yep, happy researching, everyone. Okay, bye -bye.